May 12, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 29

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

The Chair does not have any notification of Statements by Members today, but

I will call the head in any case.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Rangers Makkovik Patrol team are the proud winners

of this year's Avalon Shield Competition.

The Avalon Shield Competition is a Canadian Ranger program marksmanship

competition within the Fifth Canadian Rangers Patrol Group, which encompasses

the entire Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The competition was created in honour of the Ranger Patrols on the Avalon

Peninsula. These patrols were terminated due to an already large military

presence in the area.

The Avalon Shield competition takes place annually in each of the many

patrols throughout the Province and the patrol scores are finalized and

compared. The marksmanship competition is a combined patrol effort of each

community.

This year, Mr. Speaker, the Makkovik team had a 100 per cent turnout, which

helped them to capture the top spot in the musketry competition.

Mr. Speaker, I am told that crowd from Makkovik - outright, proper - tore the

bull's eye out of the target on many occasions.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating the Makkovik Rangers for capturing the Avalon Shield in this year's

Ranger competition.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I can say to my hometown of Makkovik, within the Province

again, you are number one.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize before this House the

success of the Amalgamated Academy Jaguars of Bay Roberts. The girls on the

Jaguars junior volleyball team have recently won their fourth provincial title.

Last year, they also won all four provincial banners!

This year has been nothing but success for the team. In October they won the

largest tournament hosted by Volleyfest. November saw them take the gold at the

East Coast Provincial pre-bantam tournament, and they won again in Grand

Falls-Windsor in December. Early in February their final accomplishment came in

St. John's. When Amalgamated Academy won all four banners last year, they were

the first in the history of the Newfoundland and Labrador Volleyball Association

to do so. Now they have done the same thing again, Mr. Speaker.

These are obviously a very talented group of girls, and everyone at

Amalgamated Academy, as well as in the Town of Bay Roberts, are very proud of

them.

I would like to sincerely congratulate the players and their coaches and wish

them all the very best of luck for the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment, and the Status of Women.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today, as the

minister responsible for youth services, to inform my hon. colleagues of an

opportunity currently being pursued by some of our Province's young people.

Through the Interchange on Canadian Studies, ten students from different

regions across Newfoundland and Labrador are in North Bay, Ontario, this week,

for a national bilingual conference. The senior high students are meeting with

their counterparts from across the country, to hear prominent speakers and share

ideas and experiences on matters of significance to Canada.

Each year, Mr. Speaker, the conference is held in a different part of the

country. With the location of North Bay this year, the conference is focused on

the cultural heritage of Northern Ontario and the role it plays in Canada. The

students will have the opportunity to listen to and interact with keynote

speakers as well as participate in debates and workshops.

The Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment, through our Youth

Services division and Exchanges Canada of Canadian Heritage, co-ordinates and

supports the programs that make such excursions possible. I am pleased that my

department can play a role in making such events possible.

Mr. Speaker, our delegates to this year's conference come from all regions

of our Province. They hail from Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Englee, York Harbour,

Burgeo, Springdale, Gambo, Terrenceville, Bloomfield, Holyrood and Paradise. I

would like to congratulate our group of ten on taking the initiative to become

involved in activities that allow them to learn more about our country. I know

they will represent Newfoundland and Labrador well.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for a copy of her statement. The

Interchange of Canadian Studies has been proven to be a very beneficial

experience for students all across Canada. The exposure to diversified cultures

and environments will have a huge impact in promoting good citizenship and will

no doubt influence young people in their career direction.

I would like to be able to say at this time, I hope that this government will

be paying so much attention when it comes to student employment this summer. I

know that will not be the case, but I know that this in an important event for

the students of our Province and, on behalf of the Official Opposition, I know

they will represent our Province well and I wish them a good conference.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, support any initiative this government may take that involves our

youth. It is great to see that they have the opportunity to travel to other

regions of our country that will broaden their knowledge and expand their

horizons. The knowledge that they learn they will bring back to this Province,

and I am sure in speaking with their fellow students, they will enlighten them

as well. Again, Mr. Speaker, I am sure our students will represent our Province

well. They will be good ambassadors in Ontario while they are there.

I would like to point out also that this is a bilingual conference and I

would like to stress that to the Minister of Education because what is proposed

to happen in Labrador with the French Immersion Program should not be allowed to

happen. I think by having this bilingual conference that demonstrates the need

for our students in this Province to be bilingual at every opportunity possible.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my colleagues and the people of the

Province about some exciting tourism indicators for the 2004 tourism season. I

am pleased to report that inquiries for travel/tourism related information to

the Province's 1-800 number and the Web site reached over 34,000 from January

to March of this year. That represents a 15 per cent increase from last year.

Mr. Speaker, tour operators have also indicated to my department that 2004 is

shaping up to be a great year for sales of the Newfoundland and Labrador

product. One example is Collette Vacations, a US based tour wholesaler, who have

indicated that room nights booked in the Province are up 157 per cent from last

year. Maxxim Vacations has also reported an increase in both inquiries and

bookings so far this year. As a matter of fact, owner, Judy Sparkes-Giannou has

indicated that sales have increased by 66 per cent compared to the same time

last year and she is optimistic that 2004 will be one of the best years ever. I

am optimistic, as are tourism operators, that this increase in interest in our

Province will result in increased visitation during the 2004 tourism season.

Mr. Speaker, our Province offers a unique destination to visitors from all

over the world. During a time when travellers are looking for a safe, pristine

and unique location that is rich in both culture and heritage, Newfoundland and

Labrador is becoming a destination of choice.

Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to increasing the potential of the

tourism industry through strategic investments because we believe an investment

in tourism is a wise investment and one that will result in increased economic

return to the Province. We demonstrated this commitment during the Budget 2004

when we increased the tourism marketing budget by $1 million.

The fact is that there has never been a better time to invest in tourism. The

tourism industry in Newfoundland and Labrador and in Canada is part of one of

the fastest growing industries in the world. It is predicted that there will be

in excess of 400,000 new jobs in the tourism industry in Canada over the next

five years. Here in our Province, resident and non-resident expenditures now

exceed $620 million annually. The tourism industry supports 25,000 direct and

indirect jobs, and, as a matter of fact, an estimated 2,400 businesses are also

supported by the industry.

Mr. Speaker, while we have seen tremendous growth in the tourism industry in

this Province over the last five years, with upwards of 440,000 people visiting

this Province last year, we know that the full potential of this industry is yet

to be realized.

Mr. Speaker, I encourage all members and all residents to support the tourism

industry in our Province and to experience the natural beauty and splendour of

Newfoundland and Labrador by vacationing at home this summer. I especially

encourage all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to celebrate 500 years of French

presence in the Province by taking

part in events in over thirty communities

associated with these celebrations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advanced copy of his statement and it is great

news for Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker. It is very good news. It is

good news for the people on this side because tourism is usually a year behind.

Last year all the bookings came from the tourism season that we had last year,

which we initiated for Newfoundland and Labrador, and I am sure the minister

will carry on for a number of years to come.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, we are so good on this side that we even had the

Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Premier of today, in rural

Newfoundland saying how good it is to be in rural Newfoundland while he was

standing on a golf course in Corner Brook. That is the Premier of this Province,

while he was standing taking a picture, how good it was to be in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot be remiss without mentioning the results of the

budgetary restraints that were made yesterday for tourism. With the announcement

of the weigh scales and inspectors done in Port aux Basques for tourism to come

to Newfoundland and Labrador, and I mentioned to the minister that he should

make his colleagues aware of the people travelling in Newfoundland and Labrador,

the importance of the weigh scales in the Port aux Basque area.

Also, Mr. Speaker, The Rooms, and I know the minister had representation and

meetings with people, but just this week the National Gallery of Canada

cancelled their annual meeting that was going to be held here in St. John's.

Because of the cancellation of The Rooms, there were seventeen exhibitions

booked for the three facilities for the first year of its opening. Among these

exhibitions: The National Gallery of Canada; the Smithsonian Institute in

Washington, D.C.; the Canadian Museum of Civilization, and the Glenbow Museum in

Alberta.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. JOYCE: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave. Leave is granted.

MR. JOYCE: These are all tourism potentials for Newfoundland and

Labrador. I cannot be remiss without mentioning the facility in Corner Brook.

The exhibition facility in Corner Brook has been cancelled. I say to the

minister: Keep up the good work.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Follow on the work that we are after doing over the last

number of years, but if you can, look at the tourism potential that we are

losing in Newfoundland and Labrador because of the closing of The Rooms and the

exhibition centre in Corner Brook.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are glad to hear, certainly, that the tourism indicators for this year are

up already and we are also pleased to see that government - despite the cutbacks

in all sorts of areas - found $1 million of increased promotional money for

tourism.

I just want to say to the minister and to the government opposite that

tourism is kind of a two-part effort, Mr. Speaker; one is to attract people to

come and the other thing is to ensure that when they get here they are going to

see what they expect to see. I know that some of these people are coming, and

many of them are coming, because they probably did what I did last week - as

late as last week - was look at The Rooms Web site which still says they are

going to be open in the month of June. Mr. Speaker, all of those people are

going to be very sadly disappointed because this government -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: - was not able to continue the opening of The Rooms, a very

important cultural centre for Newfoundland and Labrador to reopen the art

gallery, which has been closed for several years, to put our exhibits on

display, to welcome visitors and the exhibitions that the previous speaker spoke

of, including the Canada Council visiting this fall. All of these things are now

closed and padlocked. The only people with access to The Rooms are people who

book weddings, Mr. Speaker. It is a shame that this government has done, on the

one hand attracted people to come here, and on the other hand disappointed them

when they arrive. I think, Mr. Speaker, these disappointed tourists will tell

their friends and we may see a decrease in numbers in the following year.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, two short weeks ago the government welcomed their so-called

valued public employees back to work with fish and chips, chicken and chips, and

pizza. Yesterday, 331 of them found out that it was not a welcome back lunch at

all but a goodbye party.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Finance: Why have these job cuts not been

included in the Budget Estimates that we are now studying in Committee, and will

there be amendments introduced to account for the salary savings from both the

strike and the job cuts, or does he plan to present another false financial

picture to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I would like to say that we are not giving out three sets of

figures, as we are accustomed to in the past. There is only one true set of

figures to the financial affairs of our Province, and that we provided in the

Budget.

Mr. Speaker, I announced on Budget Day that there would be roughly 700

layoffs in total, 400 bargaining unit and 300 management people. That number is

now revised to 550 in total, as opposed to 700. Any budgetary decisions are

factored into our Budget and we are not going to be looking to make changes to

factor in what is already done. We are too long, in this Province, adjusting in

midstream, changing figures that weren't put in before, to give the people the

wrong impression on Budget Day. We gave the right impression in the Budget, and

that is the Budget you see and that is the Budget that you will see projected

and reported on at the end of this year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, he has admitted again that he is flying by the

seat of his pants and adjusting numbers as he goes. We are saying, the Budget

won't be completed in its debate for another three weeks, can we at least have

the amendments made that he talked about outside yesterday? I guess, from him,

the answer is no.

Mr. Speaker, another particular question. The Minister of Finance also

indicated that hundreds of more jobs will be eliminated in the coming months,

particularly from our education and health care systems. Each job cut, he knows,

will have a negative impact on vital services that the people of the Province

rely on.

I ask the minister, Mr. Speaker: Why does he insist on continuing with

layoffs when his Leader and the government promised there would be no layoffs,

only attrition, and when he knows, for a fact, that it will destroy social

programs, reduce public services, and devastate rural Newfoundland and Labrador,

in particular?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not sure where he was on Budget Day. We indicated that there would be

700 layoffs in total, of which we would be able to accommodate, hopefully, some

through attrition. Since that, Mr. Speaker, we have accommodated, within the

public service, within government departments - 331 would have been laid off

within government departments. Since March, the Budget, and because of attrition

and other reasons, that number 331 was revised down to 217, of which twenty-two

people have already left and there are 195 people, from the announcement

yesterday, over the next week or more - some people they have not reached yet,

for various reasons, and they are making contact with - there will be 195, when

they are notified, overall. That is the number of people, starting yesterday,

who would have to be notified.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister now to complete his answer quickly.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, out of this number, seventy-two are management

and 145 are union. They have provisions in their collective agreement on

bumping, and over the course of this process we will accommodate as many as we

can through the attrition process.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I will move on to another question, because the minister admits

that the circumstance is changing as we go, but he still will not acknowledge

that there is time to change and amend the Budget to accommodate the changes he

just described.

Mr. Speaker, another issue, the elimination of the hundreds of jobs -

thousands in total, but hundreds by layoff throughout the Province - will not be

absorbed easily. The Conference Board of Canada, yesterday, which he would know,

in an

article in The Globe and Mail , stated that this government's

right-wing approach to public sector slashing and burning will take a bite out

of provincial economic growth this year.

Mr. Speaker, Newfoundland and Labrador is predicted, after above average

years of growth, is expected to see a decline in GDP growth this year. Has the

minister even considered the negative economic impact that these reductions will

have on the communities of the Province, and is that the kind of economic growth

that he and the other candidates promised when they ran for election some seven

months ago?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, the numbers we projected, we factored into the Budget, number

one. The GDP growth that we projected is based upon the number of jobs that our

Budget allowed for. Several other groups and independent institutions have

indicated GDP growth that is higher than we had predicted, and now theirs is

starting to come back - the Conference Board of Canada, theirs is starting to

come back - close to where we said it would be, because the information coming

out of the Economics and Statistics Branch of our department has been more

accurate, Mr. Speaker, than the average of the five major chartered banks. It

has been more accurate than the Conference Board of Canada. It has been more

accurate than Stats Canada - than anybody.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: The figures produced from our department have been the most

accurate, and they are coming back to the number that we forecast.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister if he has finished his answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Okay.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment,

and the Status of Women.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, this heartless right-wing Conservative government

slashed twenty HRE offices around this Province. They cut services to some of

the most vulnerable people in our society. Part of the minister's

well-rehearsed public relations spin was that these cuts would actually not

negatively impact on client services.

The situation is this, Mr. Speaker: Twenty offices slashed; twenty-eight

staff gone; funding for employment programs and backlogs already existing.

I ask the minister: Does she really expect the people to believe that she is

improving services, or is she just reading from the prepared script that her PR

consultant gave her?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, with the announcement yesterday that we are

closing twenty HRLE offices in Newfoundland and Labrador, there was no

indication that we would be reducing services to any people who receive income

support or employment career services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, any individual in the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador who applies for income support and meets the eligibility requirements

will receive income support. This is an ongoing process that has been in this

Province for many, many years. People who live in rural areas, urban areas, and

remote areas, have always been able to access the Income Support Program and

they will continue to do so.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister stood in this House and

used a lot of right-wing code. She talked about demographics, and said people

will have to be trained to find employment. What is the future? Workfare? I ask

the minister: Will she tell them what they have to train for, and will she be

covering the cost?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, there are a number of people in Newfoundland and

Labrador who rely on income support as their only means of financial assistance.

Many of these people, particularly our young people, twenty-nine years of age

and younger, of which 50 per cent of new applicants last year fell into that age

category, often request employment and career services. They need to be able to

access appropriate educational and post-secondary services, and oftentimes they

need information regarding possible skills deficits in this Province and what

would be reasonable and wise choices to make with regard to their career plans.

Mr. Speaker, our department will assist these individuals to help them make the

appropriate decisions to move into the labour force.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I am very disappointed, because I never got an

answer to the question that I asked.

Anyway, I will go to another question. I ask the minister: Will there be

increased resources provided for training for young people in rural communities,

and where will the jobs come from, or is this heartless right-wing government

telling people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador to pack up and move away,

because there will be no help and there will be no jobs for them?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, there have been many changes in Newfoundland and

Labrador that have necessitated the announcements we made yesterday. It is a

fact, Mr. Speaker, since 1997 there are 9,000 fewer cases relying on income

support in this Province. Mr. Speaker, the individuals who remain on income

support often need employment and career services. Our workers, Mr. Speaker,

will work with these individuals to develop an appropriate plan.

Mr. Speaker, we never have offered educational programs in adult basic

education or post-secondary education. We will, however, assist these people to

develop the plans to identify the appropriate resources so that they can move

into the labour force.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Conservative axe feel on over 330 public sector

works in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Indications are that the chopping will

continue in the weeks and months ahead. People throughout the Province are in

shock, having been led during the provincial election to believe that there

would be no layoffs. Layoffs in a community not only result in few services but

less money going into the economy of that community.

I ask the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development: Is she

concerned about the impact this reign of terror is having on, not only those

individuals who were given their walking papers but also on the economy of the

Province, especially rural Newfoundland and Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I must inform the member that 217 of the jobs that were let go

yesterday happened in the St. John's area.

Mr. Speaker, while government jobs in rural Newfoundland are extremely -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS DUNDERDALE: - important to the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador

and -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The minister is attempting to give an answer. I ask members for their

co-operation. The hon. the minister to complete the answer.

MS DUNDERDALE: Excuse me, Mr. Speaker, over half of -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS DUNDERDALE: I correct myself, Mr. Speaker. Over half of the 217 jobs -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS DUNDERDALE: Over half of the 217 in St. John's were in the Northeast

Avalon area.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, while these jobs are extremely important

across the Province, it is difficult that we find ourselves in the fiscal

situation that we are currently trying to manage, that we have to take the

consolidation that we have seen over the last number of weeks. The challenge

before us, while government is an important employer in this Province, it is

not, nor should it be, the primary employer within this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the minister now to complete her answer, quickly.

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, we will do everything we can to grow the

economy in the private sector so there will be work right throughout this

Province, in all parts of this Province, for people of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to think that the government, indeed,

will do everything they can since that is their role. Obviously, that is what

they were elected to do and they were not elected to layoff people. In fact,

they promised that they would not.

Mr. Speaker, the closure of twenty HRLE offices in rural Newfoundland of this

Province is a prime example of how this ruthless government is centralizing

services and abandoning the rural areas of Newfoundland and Labrador. Closing

highway depots and endangering the lives of our people is yet another example.

Clearly, the plan is to concentrate their efforts on those communities along the

Trans-Canada Highway. I ask the minister: How does she plan to offset the

negative impacts which the closure of these twenty offices will have in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, the heart and soul of this Province is in

rural Newfoundland and this Province remains committed to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, I ask members for their co-operation. The hon. the minister to

complete your answer.

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government is committed to regional economic development and will work

with our partners and stakeholders right throughout this Province to capture new

investment in this Province, to capture new employment in this Province, to

develop our tremendous potential here in areas such as aquaculture, agriculture,

in innovation. There is enormous opportunity in this Province, Mr. Speaker, and

we are going to assure that we maximize the benefits of it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, how that minister can stand and say that the heart

and soul of Newfoundland and Labrador is, in fact, in rural Newfoundland and

Labrador when the very actions of this government are clearly destroying the

rural areas of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Speak to any mayor whose community has been on the receiving

end of such heartless moves by this government and they will tell you that it is

the beginning of the end for those communities. They have seen nothing from this

government to indicate there is a bright future in rural Newfoundland and

Labrador.

By her own admission the highly touted Rural Secretariat will not be up and

running for another six months. I ask the minister: How does she expect private

business - that she is hoping to attract to this Province - to have any faith in

our rural communities when the government is, in fact, pulling out and taking

away some of those services that corporations like to have in place for their

employees?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, a key component to attracting investment to

this Province is putting our own fiscal house in order so that investment is

secure. It is a critical piece that companies look at before they come to the

Province to invest.

Mr. Speaker, this department is offering all the same programs that were

offered by the former Administration, as well as developing an innovation

strategy -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS DUNDERDALE: - as well as an investment in broadband of $1.2 million.

There are ongoing initiatives building on the work that has already been done,

Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the message of doom and gloom from this government continues to

roll on and on. Yesterday we heard that twenty rural offices for social services

clients will be closing down, denying them access to government offices. We

heard about the closure of weigh scales causing detrimental danger to our

highways and safety. Today, Mr. Speaker, we have some more news that I want to

get confirmation from the government on.

My question is for the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal

Affairs. Will the minister, or someone speaking for him, confirm the news that I

received today that some thirty employees of the department engaged in highway

maintenance depots, all the foremen and all the engineering techs who, in fact,

inspect the highways to ensure that they are safe, inspect the bridges, inspect

the overpasses, will they confirm that they are all being laid off by this

government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maintenance supervisors, I think, are the positions that he is referring to.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: If it is maintenance supervisors you are referring to, Mr.

Speaker, the department is looking at doing an almost equivalent replacement of

another position in that, and I am sure the department can speak on the details.

Overall, there are certain layoffs and a corresponding number of hires to match

out a certain number of these also. I think that is what he is referring to.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The information is that every single one of the Engineering Tech IIIs across

this Province, all the supervisors of the maintenance depots across this

Province, have been laid off by this government.

Now, Mr. Speaker, this bodes ill for the maintenance of our highways, for the

safety of our highways, for the expectations that people have in driving across

this Province, that they will be able to know that the highways are being looked

after, that the people who inspect these bridges and overpasses and highways,

and report on maintenance needs, are all gone, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this government has to answer for that, and answer for it now,

and not say: We will have details in a few days, because we may be doing

something different.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the question, first, I though you referred to maintenance supervisors.

There are notices given to maintenance supervisors and engineering people also,

and -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, if they would let me answer -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The question has been asked by the hon. Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

The Minister of Finance has the floor to give the answer. I call upon the

minister. I call upon all other members for their co-operation.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, there have been a number laid off. I am aware of layoffs in all of the

areas, I say to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, but there are a

significant number of managers going to be hired to compensate for many of the

ones who were laid off.

I have indicated, Mr. Speaker, to the media yesterday, that I am reluctant to

give specifics in departments because there are many people who did not get

notified. There are people who could not be reached. The announcement was made

yesterday, and I indicated to the media that I would, and departments will,

provide information when the process has occurred.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister to complete his answer quickly.

MR. SULLIVAN: It is unfair, Mr. Speaker, for somebody to find out

publicly that their job might be eliminated. That is not the proper way to do

it. I am not going to do it here in the House of Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Since this government came in, everybody is afraid for their job so that is

nothing new.

Mr. Speaker, will the minister confirm that after this layoff there will not

be one single Engineering Tech III left in the Department of Transportation and

Works, and that there are thirty people being laid off who are involved in road

maintenance and inspection, a full total of thirty people, including all the

foreman at the depots across this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not going to get into specific details. It is the department's

responsibility to do that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: I will tell him that there are a significant number of

people who are considered maintenance supervisors, who work as foremen on shift

work in the winter. They are maintenance supervisors and they serve the role. A

significant number of these, and maybe all of them, have been given notice but

there is a significant number, in excess of thirty, that could be created as

management positions. The details, I am sure the department will give out all of

the details on the specifics.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: I have indicated, Mr. Speaker, when the process is gone

through and everybody has been notified, either the minister of that department,

or when I get the total numbers, that everybody has been notified - before

coming to the House today, I was told that everybody has not been contacted who

was to be laid off. I am not going to do that here in this House, before they

know.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for whoever wants to be the Minister of Education today.

Mr. Speaker, we have reports from several departments within government, that

government staff are being handed pink slips while mangers have been told to

utilize unpaid work term students -

AN HON. MEMBER: Unpaid.

MS THISTLE: Unpaid work term students - to fill the gaps left by this

government.

Would the minister confirm that his government, whoever the minister is -

could be a she - that your government is now exploiting students by handing out

pink slips to current workers and replacing them with free student labour to

meet your own phony deficit targets?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the member is aware of it, she can provide it. I am not aware of any. If

the member knows something I do not know, I would certainly like to know.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the past, money was set aside to pay co-operative work term students for

their valuable work. Now we find that government is soliciting free labour from

students and adding to their already high debt loads.

The Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development told the Estimates

Committee this morning that she has no money allocated but will allocate money

from fired employees to cover her student hiring. Can the minister inform this

House that he has cut the number of paid work terms and that this money will be

replaced with a combination of free slave labour from our students and layoffs

of our valued employees?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I do not think students in our Province should be termed as

slaves, number one. I do not think that should be -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: I think that is an insult to the students.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A question has been asked and the floor is to the Minister of Finance and

President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, the youth are our future, and if they are

going to be termed as slaves, that member should stand up and apologize for

calling them slaves.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, what she is talking about, I am completely

unaware of. I can tell her, in my department last year there were twenty-six

students who came to work under the former minister with no budget for any

students. Did these twenty-six deprive some people, who went out the door in the

past, of work also? Twenty-six students worked within my department last year,

without a budget or anything for that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, what the member is indicating -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister now to complete his answer, very, very quickly.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will just conclude by saying I think it is an offence to the youth of our

Province, coming to work anywhere in this Province, to call them slaves..

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I would say the offence is with this government,

asking students to work for free when they always got a paid work experience,

and there was always money budgeted for just that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, it is clear that you, this minister and his

urban Cabinet colleagues, have no commitment to the students of rural

Newfoundland and Labrador. Your government has cut one out of every three summer

jobs for students this year.

Minister, can you explain to our young people how your government can justify

cutting one out of three jobs for students in our Province this summer?

MR. REID: Say that is a lie, will you.

MS THISTLE: Say that is a lie.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will speak for my department. Last year there was no money budgeted for

students, this year there is no money budgeted for students. Normally, a certain

number of students come in. She stood up before and said, we have people coming

in now to take work away from people getting laid off, and now she is saying, we

want three times as many, don't cut them. She is telling us one thing to do,

and on the other hand she is telling us something completely different. The

member is confused. I don't know what she is talking about.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: I would like for the minister to stand here in this House and

tell me, confirm to this House, that the program for student summer employment

is in tact, the same as it was last year. You tell me if it is cut or not. I

know it is cut. Will you stand on your feet and confirm the same?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will let each minister speak for their own department, if you want that. In

my department, there was none budgeted. When you were minister, there was none

budgeted, and there is none budgeted this year. The same procedure is happening

this year as happened last year, I say to the member. People on this side of the

House don't even know what she is talking about. She is having a regular day,

fishing again, Mr. Speaker. That is what she is doing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, this minister is deliberately misleading this

House. He knows what I am talking about.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member knows that to say a minister or member is deliberately misleading

the House is unparliamentary. I ask the member to withdraw that comment.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I withdraw that term I just used.

Minister, I ask you - the programs I am talking about is SWASP, it is Level

I, II and III student employment, it is graduate employment programs. Will you

stand on your feet and tell this House that those programs have been cut?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the House that decisions

regarding the SWASP program have been made and I will be able to report the

amount and the number of students who can avail of that program.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS BURKE: In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, the funding with regards to

Level I, II and III students -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is about ten seconds left for the minister to complete her answer.

MS BURKE: With regards to the program money associated with Level I, II

and III students, correspondence to all members of this House has been sent out

this week with regards to that program.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees? Notices of Motion?

Answers to Questions for which notice has been given? Petitions? Orders of the

Day?

MR. SULLIVAN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A point of order has been raised by the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Port de Grave shouted out across this House: the Premier is

gone to the right country. I do not know what an insinuation - he should stand

and withdraw that because that is not a parliamentary comment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker did not hear the comment and it is difficult for the Speaker to

rule on such matters. I have to rule that there is no point of order, but I

caution all members to be very careful in what they say and be careful of the

implications and the insinuations that might be made by such comments.

I would ask the Member for Port de Grave, if he made such comments, to be

more selective in his commentary.

Orders of the Day.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess we are about to move to Private Members' Day. But I will say that

Question Period is supposed to be a time of lively debate and thrusts and

throes, and there are times it is more heated than others. A number of times,

particularly today - it is one thing to get asked a question, fair enough, that

is why we call it Question Period, but the moment today on every question that

has been asked, the minute a minister stands up to answer a question - eight or

nine members of the Opposition are like a bunch of attack dogs - were not even

given the opportunity for an answer. I am not trying to suggest -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Government House Leader is standing on a point of order. It is reasonable

and fair that he be heard in relative silence.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The only point I make is that with Question Period, we expect the Opposition

to hold government accountable, to hold our feet to the fire for decisions we

make, that is part of the process, but I -

MR. REID: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: There we go again. The Member for Twillingate & Fogo,

once again. Every time I stand up, right at it again.

The point I am trying to make is this, Mr. Speaker. That while the Opposition

have every right to be as aggressive and as hard hitting, and government should

expect that, anticipate it and deal with it, but at the same time, I would hope

that we would be allowed the opportunity, like we should be during Question

Period, to be able to answer the question given without eight or nine members

shouting everyone down. The courtesy was provided to members opposite to ask the

question. I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that you, in your capacity, would ensure

that the courtesy to members of the Cabinet and ministers who are answering the

question on behalf of government, be given the opportunity to do exactly that.

I believe after this point we are moving to private member's motion, I

think it is, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order, the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I appreciate the concerns raised by the Government House Leader but it

cuts both ways. To stand up here and complain in a point of order about the fact

that government ministers do not get an opportunity to respond, and at the same

time he voices that concern, he says like a bunch of attack dogs. Now that is

the kind of provocative type of attitude that this side of the House has seen

from this government. Every question that has been asked over on this side in

Question Period, the frustration level must rise when you have nothing but

provocation, absolute provocation. Maybe the government ministers do not know

the answers to the question. That is fine. The public of Newfoundland and

Labrador would accept if you do not know the answers. Stand up, and if you do

not know it, say you do not know it but do not try to bluff the people of the

Province by not giving an answer.

Today, for example, we had cases where we directed questions to ministers and

the rule is that if a minister is not here, we have been provided with a list of

alternate ministers. But, instead of that, what happens? To raise the

frustration level again, probably the most provocative minister over there,

Mini-Me stands up and takes the place of two alternative ministers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker rules that there is no point of order. I am not sure whether or

not we (inaudible) provided an opportunity. Before I would do that though, the

Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi has not indicated that he wishes to speak.

However, the situation is that during Question Period - and Question Period is

free-wheeling. We all know that. That is part of the accountability process.

However, members should know that when questions are asked there has to be an

opportunity for a reply, and we try to facilitate that. However, in doing so, I

had mentioned indirectly a few days ago that referring to other members of the

House by descriptive names that are negative in tone, whether that is on the

Government House Leader using an expression like attack dog or the Opposition

House Leader using an expression like Mini-Me to describe an hon. member, all of

these expressions do not facilitate good parliamentary processes. I ask members

to be more considerate of each other and to avoid such names in the future, on

both sides of the House.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, in terms of using the phrase - the Opposition

after asking a question - like a bunch of attack dogs, I certainly did not mean

to offend anybody. If I did -

MR. REID: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: There we go again. The Member for Twillingate & Fogo,

he cannot contain himself whatsoever.

The fact of the matter is, that it was not meant as a derogatory term. If it

was taken as such, I certainly will withdraw it because it is certainly not the

type of practice - as Leader of the Opposition, that I was using referring to

members. It is certainly not a practice that I use. If I have offended members

of the Opposition, I sincerely apologize and would want that statement withdrawn

from the record of the House, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I did not participate in the debate on the point of order, but given the

comments of the Opposition House Leader, the Government House Leader and

yourself, Your Honour, it certainly seems to me that during debate, particularly

during Question Period, there is plenty of room for heckling and raucous

activity, particularly when we are dealing with controversial issues.

I know Your Honour is anxious to keep us as civilized as possible here. I

have been here for fourteen years. I was in the House of Commons, there are 300

members there, and they don't seem to tone down too much during Question

Period. People have to actually be able to speak over the heckling, the roar,

and everything else.

I suppose if it comes to the point where a member cannot hear themselves

think, or speak, then we have a problem, but I think we have to expect a fair

bit of activity, particularly when the issues are involving people, their jobs,

their futures and their communities on a very particular level.

While, of course, we respect your ruling and your approach, I think it is

going to be very difficult for hon. members to hear each other in silence, as

has been suggested from time to time. The phraseology used from time to time are

part of the cut and thrust of parliamentary debate.

Certainly, things that are provocative can only heighten the debate as

opposed to tone it down. I guess we will all have to try to be as civilized as

possible, but understanding that there are going to be times when people are

exercised enough to express themselves in a negative way.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, I refer all hon. members - and we only have a few seconds left before

we go to the Orders of the Day - that Question Period is again freewheeling, it

is a spontaneous event, and requires tremendous spontaneity on all sides of the

House. The idea of having supplementaries is that questions should arise from

the answers that were given. Everybody knows the general rules of Question

Period. The Chair's role is to try to maintain a level of decorum that permits

the asking of questions and also permits the answering of questions, because it

is a Question Period. While we recognize that we try to get as many questions in

as possible, this Chair operates under the assumption that there are always more

questions to be asked than there is time to ask them. Therefore, we try to get

in as many questions as we can every single day.

Again, I ask members for their co-operation, to show that we, at all times,

try to facilitate an aggressive approach but also a very parliamentary approach.

Orders of the Day.

I do believe that we are debating the private member's resolution put

forward by -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: I had called petitions earlier. Petitions had been called.

AN HON. MEMBER: Nobody (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Petitions were called by the Chair, and I waited -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Petitions have been called. Unless there is an agreement to

revert to Petitions - but they were called.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I clearly heard you call petitions, as most members did. Maybe

the Opposition were too busy heckling to hear you call petitions - I do not know

- but there are three minutes left for petitions. If a member opposite, or any

member, private member, wants to present a petition between now and 3 o'clock,

when the debate on the private member's resolution starts, fair enough. That

is what we are here for.

MR. SPEAKER: An agreement has been reached. We are reverting to

petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was getting a little bit nervous, because I thought we were going to run

out of time and I would not have an opportunity to present this important

petition on behalf of the people of my District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

Mr. Speaker, a new petition on the Labrador Marine Services, and I will read

it for the record because I am sure there will be more to come, in the days that

follow. Anyway, it is a new petition and it says:

WHEREAS the provincial government in January 2003 made a decision to base

Labrador Marine Services, specifically the Sir Robert Bond , out of

Cartwright; and

WHEREAS the marine service operated out of Cartwright for the 2003 operating

season and saw a 41 per cent increase in passengers over the previous operating

season; and

WHEREAS Phase III of the Trans-Labrador Highway is not yet completed from

Cartwright to Happy Valley-Goose Bay; and

WHEREAS the most cost-effective mode of transportation linking Southern

Labrador to Happy Valley-Goose Bay is via marine transportation; and

WHEREAS the number of trips have been decreased from three to two during the

peak operating season from Happy Valley-Goose Bay to Cartwright;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that residents in South Labrador and travellers to

the regions have access to the most cost-effective mode of transportation

between Goose Bay and Cartwright, through an increased number of trips of the Sir

Robert Bond during the 2004 operating season.

Mr. Speaker, that is a new petition related to the Labrador Marine Services,

and it has no doubt been sent to this House of Assembly because people are not

satisfied with the decision that government made.

Yesterday, before my time ran out, I was about to talk about the groups and

organizations, Mr. Speaker, in Labrador, on the Northern Peninsula and in

Western Newfoundland, that feel that this government across the way have made

the wrong decision with regard to the Labrador Marine Services.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I will have to conclude those comments tomorrow.

Thank you very much.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

It being 3 o'clock on Private Members' Day, the Chair will now call the

private member's resolution. We are debating the resolution put forward by the

hon. Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

For the record, I would like to read the resolution:

WHEREAS the government committed in their election platform to reduce ferry

rates to the equivalent of road travel; and

WHEREAS the recent Budget saw increases of 25 per cent instead;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly call upon the government

to recommit to its stated plan and lay out a time line for which the people of

the Province can expect the plan to be implemented.

Mr. Speaker, I guess I could say, what a difference seven months make. The

people of the Province, before October 21, were looking forward to a new

government, a new Premier, a new plan, new optimism; but, I am telling you, in

four short months the people's hopes have been dashed, their confidence has

been destroyed, a feeling of betrayal, cynicism is rampant, and no one could

have predicted in a million years what could have happened in seven short

months.

One of the things we are talking about here is for people who live in the

rural part of the Province. In the district that I represent, I have six

communities that are serviced by ferry services along the Southwest Coast. The

Southwest Coast is, by far, the most difficult area, probably, of the Province

where the provincial ferry operates, as far as climate is concerned. The

Southwest Coast is not protected by sheltered harbours. Any time they have to

move, especially in the wintertime, it is very, very difficult for these people

to be able to get out. In many instances, because of the character and the

nature of the terrain on the Southwest Coast, the only time these people can

leave is by boat, because you have times when the helicopter cannot get in -

there is no way that a fixed-wing plane can get in to those communities - and

they have a very difficult time in being able to get connected to the main part

of the Island part of the Province and to Labrador if they so wish.

During the last number of years, we have reduced the fares on these passenger

boats. It is not only my district that is served by them. The Member for L'Anse

au Clair, the Member for Fogo, the Member for Windsor-Springdale, the Member for

Terra Nova, all of these people have boats that service the population.

It was spelled out very, very clearly again on page eight of the blueprint of

the Progressive Conservative plan. It says: Phase in adjustment over a five-year

period to bring rates on provincial ferry routes in line with the cost of

highway travel.

It is there in black and white. There is no doubt about it, what was

promised. When we saw the Budget, it was 25 per cent that was predicted over a

five-year period. It is already, in some instances, 18 per cent. It is an 18 per

cent increase to the Fogo route. I called some of the people in my own district

today and it ranges up to a 13 per cent, 14 per cent, 15 per cent increase over

the first year. So, if you have increases coming over the next four years, it is

going to be more than 25 per cent. It will probably be more like 30 per cent or

35 per cent, when you add it up, accumulative year after year.

We find, Mr. Speaker, that these people who are served by the boats have been

- I do not know if the word probably is - misleading is not correct in the

House, but certainly we are given a different hope. We are given a different

promise that these particular ferry rates would be decreased. What do we find?

Increased. I am not surprised that would happen, because we heard the Member for

Grand Bank talking about when the Premier did his campaigning before the

election. They have him on tape saying: Regardless of who gets elected in the

Grand Bank District, we will complete the seniors place and the new hospital and

clinic for Grand Bank. The Budget said it was cancelled.

My colleague from L'Anse au Clair, when they had a conference call with the

Premier he said they would have an independent study done by Memorial University

and whatever the recommendation that came in from that independent group they

would honour it. There were eight recommendations and there was not one

recommendation that was in the report which was honoured. So, we see these

things happening over and over again.

As a result of that, Mr. Speaker, we have, as I said, cynicism on part of the

people of the Province. There is more of it today than I have seen in a long,

long time. There is no doubt it. What has happened here, these people in the

Province were told certain things and it did not happen. Their faith is

shattered in the whole political system. We have seen, again, the budgetary

debate - and even yesterday, in the HRE office.

I must talk about the office in Burgeo. I must lay out for the people of the

Province - we closed the HRE office in Burgeo. Here is the situation for me

again in those isolated communities along the South West Coast. If you are in

Franois and you want to go to Burgeo, you are looking at more than two hours

by boat. When they got to Burgeo than the HRE offices were there for the people,

to serve the people of that part of the coast. Now, as of yesterday's

announcement, these people will come two-hours-plus by boat and then they have a

two-and-a-half hour drive by car to get into Stephenville. That is unthinkable.

Then for the minister to say today that there has been no downgrading of

services for the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I mean how

can you - you cannot say that with a straight face and be honest about it,

because the situation, and I know these people, a lot of them do not have cars.

So, what is happening when you get into Burgeo? Is the Department of Human

Resources going to pay for a taxi from Burgeo up to Stephenville to take their

clients there? If it is, then it is going to cost a lot more than if you had the

office there in Burgeo to begin with. These are the types of things that we run

into. It is a litany of broken promises, and it is not only the - we see that

for the ferry service but for many others as well.

I talked about, yesterday again, the closing of the driver examination

offices. We did not have an office in my area, but what we did have was a person

who was employed in the office in Grand Falls who came down to Harbour Breton

and came down to Bay d'Espoir once a month, or once every two months, as the

need would arise for these people to be given drivers tests. Now they are not

coming down anymore. They only came once a month or once every two months. Now

the people from my area have to go to Grand Falls-Windsor, which is another

two-and-a-half or three hours drive up over the Bay d'Espoir Highway, and that

is not fair. There should be services provided for the people who live in these

particular areas.

Getting back to broken promises. We hear, for example, in the Budget again,

where the government is saying they are going to commit $5 million annually to

phase in a low-income tax reduction program that will reduce personal income tax

for low-income taxpayers. Now, just imagine! What was told to the people in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador was that this particular budgetary process

would not kick in until 2006. They would not be able to apply this in their 2004

tax return. It would be applied to 2005 tax return and the people would not see

the benefit until 2006. What we have seen over the last little while with all

the increase of fees, small game, big game, licenced guide, vehicle entry fees,

vehicle fees, drivers, road ambulance, all of the things - there were about 150

of them which we saw - that all increasing fees and these people in the rural

part of the Province would have to sustain and be able to do that.

Then we think about, as I said, the public employees. We saw them today - in

fact, I had two or three calls today from people who are affected in my area and

other areas. One of the guys who got his pink slip was in management. He said: I

do not expect to ever get my job back again because there is a new criteria for

reapplying. The new criteria says that the new manager must have engineering

experience plus management experience. He said: I do not have engineering

experience. I am a man in my fifties. I have worked with Works, Services and

Transportation all those years. So I have given of my life. I know I can apply

but I will never be selected. What will I do?

These are the human faces of people that we know. People like the lady from

Burgeo who called into Open Line last night and said: We have just built a new

house in Burgeo. Now we have to move away. This is just one of them. I can talk

about many of them in my own area as well. I am convinced, without a shadow of a

doubt, that at the end of the day these particular services will have such a

drastic effect on the people in the rural parts of the Province that their anger

will grow even more and their cynicism will grow even more than it is today. I

have not seen it and I am not exaggerating. I have been in the House of Assembly

for fifteen years and I go back to my district practically every weekend, and I

have not seen the anger and the frustration of people across the Province that

there is now. Basically, the people are saying: We were not dealt upfront with.

You know, the thing is - and I have said it in the House before and I will make

a point again, that the people whom we serve, the electorate out there, in many

cases, in most cases are more educated than we are, the people who sit in the

House. They can see through it. They can see through the charade. They can see

through the smoke and mirrors, and I am telling you, the people who sit in this

House will be knowing that when it comes down to another election.

I heard the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development say again

today: government is not the first employer and it should be done by the private

sector. Anybody who lives in a rural part of the Province knows that in many

instances without the government involved in there and the Government Services,

then obviously these communities will have difficulty. They are not all growth

centres. You know, I could not help but think, that is the alliance philosophy.

They do not believe in ACOA. They do not believe in helping people. They do not

believe in EI. They do not believe in EI services. They mock it when you talk

about making reform to it because people should be able to work all year around,

but we have seasonal industries here the Province. As a result of that, then

there is going to be EI. To cut these services and the support to the people in

the rural parts of the Province, I am telling you, the people will tolerate it,

they will put up with it for the time being, but I am telling you, they will

never, ever forget it again. Never! It will be on their minds and they will tell

the government so in the next election, because I am telling you what will

happen.

I have heard it said already, and I am sure that members on both sides of the

House have heard it if you have gone back into your districts. They are hoping

that because it is early in the mandate, the public service strike and all of

the things that the government is doing, that over the next three years people

will forget. I am telling you, the first perception is a lasting perception. The

people over the last six months - and what is more to come - because I know that

when you reorganize the health care I am going to lose clinics in my area.

People are going to have to go to greater distances than they are today. What is

happening, there is so much dollars associated with those services you are going

to cut and you are going to make it fit, which is not the right philosophy. You

have to provide services for the people in the rural parts of the Province

because they live there, they should have them. Not only do they expect them but

they deserve them. If you are not going to give the people the services in the

small rural areas that they deserve, then tell them so. It is a resettlement

through the backdoor if you are going to destroy all of the services that they

have, what they should have and what they are entitled to. I am telling you,

these are the types of things that really annoy people when you talk about

people across the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I also talked about - when referring to the minister again - the private

sector. We have lost, or will lose by the end of the term of this government,

probably 6,000 jobs. I am telling you, you go out and ask the private sector to

create 6,000 jobs and you will only be even to where you are today. That is

impossible to do over a short span of time. What the problem is, Mr. Speaker, is

a matter of philosophy. It is the whole idea of balancing the Budget at all

costs. There is no social conscience.

I read in the Throne Speech, if I can find it here - it is on page 3 -

"My Government will be guided in all of its decisions by a strong social

conscience and a clear understanding that Newfoundland and Labrador will make

significant social progress through economic growth and fiscal health.

Back to the first part of it, "My Government will be guided in all of

its decisions by a strong social conscience..." You can go out and tell the

people who were on strike over the last month, people who had no income for the

full month, who went back and got part of a cheque and got a pink slip, tell

these people who have worked twenty years, twenty-five years, and even more than

that, fourteen, fifteen years, who are no longer needed, their services are no

longer needed by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and, I am telling

you, they will tell you that it is not guided by a social conscience, in any

stretch of the imagination.

Closing of the HRE offices, and asking people to go, as I said, in my area to

three and four hours, that is not being led by a social conscience. That is

being led by a right-wing fiscal agenda. The people of the Province can see

that, they know it, and they are the people who will tell this government about

that in time to come.

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to take up any more of the time. I said what I

had to say, and I will have an opportunity to clue up debate at the end of the

day.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise today and support the motion that has been put forward by my

colleague, the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune. Mr. Speaker, I think in his

opening comments he summarized very well what the need is to put forward this

motion in the House of Assembly today.

Mr. Speaker, in the election there was a commitment made by members opposite,

and by the government, that clearly indicated, in their election platform, in

their blueprint, that they took to the public back in the fall, that they would

reduce the ferry rates to the equivalent of road travel in the Province. That

was the commitment. It was very clearly written and very clearly understood by

all members of the public.

Mr. Speaker, what did we see when the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board came into the House to present the first Budget of the new

government? Well, I will tell you what he indicated in the first Budget. He

indicated, quite clearly, that there would be an increase of 25 per cent in

ferry rates to areas of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to tell you, that it is absolutely ridiculous when

you have a government that is prepared to go out three or four months earlier

and say that, we will reduce ferry rates to make them equivalent to road travel,

leading the people to believe that there will be lower rates, not higher rates,

and then a few months later, when they are elected, when they take their seats

and they are all comfortably sworn in their respective positions in office, they

come out, Mr. Speaker, and tell the people that, no, we are not going to reduce

your rates. We are going to increase your rates, and we are going to increase

them by 25 per cent.

Mr. Speaker, I will not say that I have travelled on every ferry in this

Province, but I have travelled on a lot of the ferries in this Province. I have

travelled on the ferries down to Fogo Island and Change Islands. I have

travelled on the ferry to Bell Island. I have travelled on the ferry down to

Rencontre East, and I travel on ferries in my own district on a regular basis. I

know how important that service is to the people of the Province, and to the

people who live in those particular regions, because it is their road

transportation system. We need to ensure that they can have affordable access to

that transportation system, because many of them have to use it to get to work

on a daily basis, to access critical medical services in other regions of the

Province, to ensure that their children get out to the respective areas to get

to school and so on. They are very dependent upon those ferry services. We are

not living in a Province where we are seeing a huge escalation in the amounts of

money that people are bringing home. Most people's incomes, I would predict,

Mr. Speaker, have rarely rose in the last five years in this Province. The only

raise, I would say, is probably with the increase in the minimum wage, and

things like that, so it is not like they have, all of a sudden, a whole new

income on which they can draw from to pay out fees like this. So, it is going to

be even harder for those people who depend upon that service.

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk a little bit about increases in fees in my own

district as well, because this government opposite, in the fall, went out and

hired three professors, I guess, or three individuals from the public policy

division of Memorial University to do a study on Labrador Marine Services, and

to bring a report back to the government on what would be the most beneficial

marine services for people in Labrador and what would be the most cost-effective

for government.

Well, let me tell you, they did that and they did it very well. They had an

open consultation and they certainly engaged all the people in Labrador in that

process, and other people in the Province who were affected. What they came back

and recommended to the government opposite was that there should be a passenger

ferry service in the Sir Robert Bond operating between Cartwright and

Happy Valley-Goose Bay; that there should be a freight service using the

existing contracted vessel or another suitable vessel operating between

Lewisporte and the North Coast communities to Nain, including Black Tickle in my

district, and that there would be the continued operation of the Northern

Ranger, which is a freight and passenger combination vessel, out of the port

of Cartwright into all points north to Nain and also into Black Tickle.

Mr. Speaker, that study also recommended that there be a 50 per cent

reduction in rates to the users of that service, especially users from the area

of the port of Cartwright and the port of Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

Well, government did not follow those recommendations, Mr. Speaker. Instead,

what they did was, they took the Sir Robert Bond , they based the vessel

out of Lewisporte at an additional cost of $1.7 million a year to taxpayers in

the Province. In addition to that, they increased the rates on the service by 10

per cent, not decrease them by the 50 per cent that was recommended by the

consultants.

Mr. Speaker, even when they go out and solicit advice and pay consultants to

give them the best possible options, they do not adhere to that advice, which

makes absolutely no sense to me and I am sure it makes no sense to any other

person in the Province, why a government would want to pay $150,000 for a

consultant report that they have no intention of listening to.

Mr. Speaker, I have some grave concerns with this because I am right now in a

district where we are going to see an eroding of business services and

employment opportunities for people I represent, people in the Lake Melville

area, and people in Western Labrador, as well as people on the Northern

Peninsula, because all of these areas of the Province benefitted from having a

dedicated ferry service between Cartwright and Goose Bay, and that will be no

more, Mr. Speaker.

It is rather unfortunate that vessel will be operating out of Lewisporte, not

because anybody wants it to operate out of Lewisporte, other than the Member for

Lewisporte who happens to be the Minister of Transportation and Works, and some

people in Lewisporte who may use the service this year. We are not sure; we are

going to see if they will use it or not. Other than that, no one else seems to

have wanted this particular service to operate this way, but it will cost $1.7

million more.

Now, government will raise some new revenue - yes, they will - because they

are increasing the fees on all the other ferry services in the Province by 25

per cent. So, if I am going to be travelling to Fogo Island and Change Islands

this year, as I did last year, I am going to pay 25 per cent more in fees than I

did last year. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, the people travelling to Bell

Island and back will pay more, and the people travelling down on the South Coast

of the Island will pay more; but, you know, what is really unfortunate about

this is that these people, in these areas, believed the government in October

when they were out campaigning. They believed them when they said to them: We

will ensure that your ferry rates are equivalent to road transportation costs.

That is what they said, Mr. Speaker. Do you know what that impression left

the people? It left them with the impression that we were going to see a lower

ferry rate, not a higher ferry rate, which is indeed what is happening today.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not know. I listened to the Minister of Innovation,

Trade and Rural Development today, when she stood in her place, and I did not

hear anything. I did not hear anything. I guess I got most of my experience, I

should say, in the field of rural development. I have lived in a rural community

all of my life and I know the trials and tribulations of growing up and being

able to maintain services in a rural area.

Well, my district is a rural area that has seen nothing only cuts by this

government. I am going to tell you some of them today. First of all, we had our

trail-grooming grants. This is within the last six months. In the last six

months, this is what has happened. We have had trail-grooming grants cut. These

are grants that maintain vital transportation links to remote isolated

communities that otherwise can only be accessed by helicopter, I say to members

opposite. That is how I have to get into those communities in my district.

We have seen a removal of food subsidy, taken from the administers within my

district and taken back into the department of government to be paid out, one

person hired to administer that program at a most exorbitant cost to the

government than it was being done before.

We have seen the ferry operations on the St. Barbe and the Blanc-Sablon run

reduced, Mr. Speaker. We did not get that ferry on until May 1 this year. Every

other year we have had an earlier start date. This government refused to do it

because it was extra cost, they said, and they would not allow that extra cost.

Yet, they had money to run the Bond into Lewisporte.

Mr. Speaker, we have also seen yesterday the closing of two HRE offices in my

district. Now, the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development did not

seem to think that these things would have any major implications on rural

communities in the Province. I just listed six things in my district that have

been cut in the last six months, downsized or closed. Now, tell me that will not

have an impact, because it will have an impact, Mr. Speaker.

Every job that is lost in one of these communities impacts someone. Just like

every time a fee goes up, it impacts people. Just like the ferry rates

increasing this year in all the regions of the Province will impact people. It

will impact people who do not even use the ferry service; because, if they are

buying or purchasing goods in those communities, the cost of getting those goods

to the community will indeed increase. So, one way or another, consumers are

going to pay.

Mr. Speaker, I have a problem with that because I think this is regressive

and not progressive. I think it clearly launches more challenges for rural

communities in this Province, not only in what we are seeing with jobs being

lost, layoffs, and offices closing, but the challenge of meeting the increased

demands for fees that are being placed on the services that they depend upon,

and that in itself is becoming more and more difficult.

Mr. Speaker, this is all being done under false pretenses, because the

Minister of Finance and Treasury Board has consistently stood in this House and

said that we have a deficit of over $800 million in this Province. That is not

conceivable. That is not the right and proper message that should be sent to the

public. The real numbers are quite different from that. We are not experiencing

the fiscal woes that the member opposite claims that we are. In fact, I feel

that we could accomplish a balanced Budget in this Province over the next four

years without even having to close all of the offices that we are closing,

without having to lay off all the people that the members opposite claim they

have to lay off. Mr. Speaker, it could be done by growing the economy.

All that is happening right now is that people are being totally demoralized,

there is no consumer confidence, nobody is spending because people are not

confident that the economy of this Province is going to grow. They are not

confident that there will be new job creation. They are not confident that this

government has any agenda at all when it comes to economic diversification.

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, many of them today are feeling that, if I cannot hang on

to what I have then I will have no other choice only to move on. That is very,

very sad.

I say to the members opposite that you have to be pro-active. You are the

government. You have to set the example. You have to lead the people in the

Province to more economic prosperity, and not continue to launch misery upon

them, not continue to -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is a conversation going on across the House. I ask hon. members for

their co-operation. If they wish to engage in a dialogue, perhaps they might be

able to do it outside of the Chamber or wait until the time comes for them to

engage in the debate that is before the House.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am just about to clue up my comments now. I just want to say that I, for

one, appreciate the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune bringing forward this

motion today, because somebody in this House has to represent the hundreds and

thousands of people in this Province that will no doubt have to incur this extra

cost over the next year and in future years.

I, for one, will be supporting the motion that has been put forward by my

colleague. I feel that it is unnecessary, and I am actually very disappointed,

very upset, by the fact that government would make a commitment to the people of

the Province in October and in its Budget go completely opposite to what they

said they would do. That is wrong, Mr. Speaker, and therefore I will support the

motion put forward by the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Continuing debate.

Are you ready for the question?

The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise today to speak to the motion put forward by my colleague, the

Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, dealing with the rise in the ferry rates in

this Province, Mr. Speaker. It surprises me somewhat to have to stand here today

to put forward, or to speak in support of, the motion put forward by my

colleague to try to get the rates of ferries reduced, or try to get this almost

27 per cent increase in rates rolled back, when it was only a few short months

ago that the Premier of this Province, when he was the Leader of the Opposition,

visited my district.

Let me tell you about my district first, Mr. Speaker, because I represent one

of the more rural districts on the Island portion of our Province. It is called

Twillingate & Fogo. It is composed of four islands, two of which are

accessible by road, Twillingate and New World Islands. The other two, Change

Islands and Fogo Island, you have to go by ferry to get to these two Islands.

That is the reason I am standing today to talk about the ferry rates, and the

fact that in the Budget the Minister of Finance announced a 25 per cent increase

in ferry rates over the next five years; but, if you compound year over year, it

comes out to be more like 26 per cent or 27 per cent.

It surprises me to have to stand to talk about it, like I said, because the

Premier visited my district, I think, once prior to the election call, and, in

meeting with residents of Fogo Island, when the issue of ferry rates came up, he

promised those people that he would eliminate ferry rates, Mr. Speaker, and

bring the cost of transportation across the tickle out there in line with what

it would cost for road transportation.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, regardless of what size of vehicle you use, it

would cost you less than a dollar to travel from Fogo Island to Farewell, even

if you were driving a transport truck. It would cost you even less than that to

travel in an automobile or a lightweight truck from Change Islands to Farewell.

It would cost you about twenty cents, I would think, Mr. Speaker, and we have an

increase of 25 per cent, 26 per cent, 27 per cent in the rates, and I will go

through some of the rates with you in a few minutes.

First, I want to talk about the commitment of the Premier, one of many, many,

many, commitments that he made to the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador,

and one of many commitments he made to the residents of my district, himself,

personally, in his travels around the district last year, prior to and during

the election. One of the commitments he made to the people of Fogo Island, when

asked about the ferry rates, was that he was going to eliminate the ferry rates,

and it would cost the people out there, you know, twenty-five, fifty,

seventy-five cents to travel from Fogo Island and Change Islands to the

mainland.

Mr. Speaker, I would have been standing here today applauding the Premier if

he had, in fact, done that, but the people who trusted the Premier, trusted him

enough to vote for him, I must say, Mr. Speaker, they are not very happy today.

I had numerous calls since the Budget came down, telling me that the Premier

lied to them. I have constituents call me every day saying: Gerry, the Premier

lied. The Premier lied. The Premier lied. That is all they say to me. Mr.

Speaker, what can I say to them when the man stood in front of their faces and

told them that he was going to abolish ferry rates and then, all of a sudden,

there is a 25 per cent increase?

Let me talk about the 25 per cent increase, because the Minister of Finance

and Treasury Board, the Member for Ferryland, when he stood and read his speech

this year, said: The rates will increase by 25 per cent over four years,

starting with 10 per cent this year.

Maybe the Minister of Finance could come back in; because, in the last month

or so since the Budget came down we have been talking about the inaccuracies in

the Budget and the fact that it would lead you to believe the man cannot add or

he is deceiving the people of the Province. I will give you an example.

He said that the ferry rates were going to go up 10 per cent this year. Well,

right here in the document from the Minister of Transportation and Works, it

says that the cost for a ferry passenger to leave Fogo Island to go to Farewell

right now, this month, effective, I think, April 1 or May 1, the rate for a

passenger going from Fogo Island to Farewell is gone from $5.50 to $6.50.

Anyone, I would think, Mr. Speaker, in their right mind knows, or anyone with

very rudimentary skills in mathematics, something I would assume the Minister of

Finance does not have, even the basic skills in mathematics, because the rates

have gone from $5.50 to $6.50, that is more in line with an 18 per cent increase

this year and not a 10 per cent increase as the minister so boldly stood in the

House of Assembly a month ago and said that he was going to increase.

So, when we question his Budget and say that we should bring amendments to

the Budget in this Province, or we should bring in a new Budget, these are the

kinds of mistakes - deliberate mistakes or deliberate attempts to deceive the

public - that we find in his Budget.

Mr. Speaker, another thing, senior citizens. The rates for a senior citizen

travelling on a ferry from Fogo Island to the mainland portion in Farewell used

to be $3. It used to be $3. Now, the Minister of Finance said he was going to

increase that by 10 per cent. Well, 10 per cent of $3 is thirty cents, so the

rate should be $3.30 for our senior citizens on Fogo Island travelling on that

ferry. In actual fact, come May 1, a senior travelling on that very ferry is

going to pay $3.50, not $3.30. That is something in line with 16 per cent rather

than 10 per cent.

Like all those people who call me every day and say the Premier lied to them,

I guess they can also say that the Minister of Finance lied to them, because it

is right there in his own documents.

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand the rationale of the individuals opposite. A

number of them over there have ferries in their districts. The Member for Terra

Nova, for example, has an island town in his district that is accessible by

ferry. His ferry rates have increased as well. The Member for Windsor-Springdale

has a ferry in his district. His has increased. The minister who represents Bell

Island there and Harbour Main, the Minister of Government Services, she has a

ferry. I do not think she will be standing today to talk about an increase

because she would not even stand to do a presentation of a petition that the

residents of Bell Island gave her. She did not even have the nerve to stand here

and fall into the bad books of her Premier by standing and presenting a petition

on behalf of the ferry users on Bell Island.

Let me tell you something else. Besides the cost going up by 10 per cent -

which is, in actual fact, 16 per cent to 18 per cent, if you look at the real

number; even though the minister will tell you 10 per cent, but who believes him

anymore when he uses figures. The actual increase is somewhere in the area of 16

per cent to 18 per cent.

Let me tell you about Fogo Island. The Minister of Innovation, Trade and

Rural Development made some derogatory comments about me and my district a few

minutes ago, but let me tell you something, Mr. Speaker. The people on Fogo

Island contribute very greatly to the economy of this Province and the people of

my district contribute a lot to the economy of this district. On Fogo Island

last summer we had pretty well full employment. When I talk about contributing

to the economy of this Province, the residents of Fogo Island not only

contribute to the economy of this Province, they contribute to the economy of

this country, because everything that is produced - as the Member for Bonavista

North knows - on Fogo Island is exported out of the country. Not just out of the

Province, but out of the country. So all the goods that are exported, sold in

the United States and other parts of the world, these are real dollars that are

coming back into the economy. What do they get in return for their labour? They

get increases in ferry costs.

The Member for Bonavista North also knows that any trucking company involved

with processing facilities, like we have on Fogo Island - we have three plants

in operation there this year - that it requires a lot of trucking. As a result,

there are a number of local business people who took it upon themselves, because

they are an industrious group of people, to go out and buy a fleet of transport

trucks so that they could not only employ themselves, but they could employ

their neighbors in various communities on Fogo Island, so they invested heavily

into a fleet of transport trucks. In fact, one individual out there in the town

of Seldom bought eight transport trucks so that he could employ himself and

other residents of Fogo Island.

Let me tell you why I am talking about him. Today, if you were to travel

yourself - I invite my colleague across the floor, the Minister for Innovation,

Trade and Rural Development, maybe she will accompany me out there on the

weekend or next weekend. I would love for her to come and tell the people out

there what she is going to do to revitalize the economy in rural Newfoundland

and Labrador. If she were to go by herself today, the rate that she would have

to pay is $18.50 for her and her vehicle; one vehicle. A transport truck making

that same run today has to pay $162, and it is not based on weight, it is based

on length. Like the individual who own these eight transport trucks said to me:

A transport truck is three times the length of a car. Yet, I am paying eight

times the cost of putting a car on that boat. Explain that to me? I cannot

explain it to him. Maybe the Minister of Transportation and Works will go to

Fogo Island - like they would like for him to go, and have been asking him to go

since he has been elected as minister, or appointed as minister. Maybe he will

go and explain to the people, the individuals who have these trucking companies

who are employing people and are paying $165 a day per truck. That individual,

when the fishing season is up and running, pays for eight trucks a day. He is

paying well over $1,000; $1,300, $1,400 a day for trucking that he could put in

his own pocket but, no, he has to put it into the minister's pocket who in

turn gives it to the Minister of Finance. I do not know what he does with it

because I can hardly believe anything that the man says in terms of what he puts

on paper.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, and I talk to - the member for Clarenville down

there talks about being nice. The people of Clarenville know how nice you are,

especially the people who voted for you in the by-election out there. We know

all about that, Mr. Speaker.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, it is too bad that the Minister of Transportation and

Works is not in his seat right now because maybe he could explain how these

rates -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: I apologize, Mr. Speaker. I am not supposed to make reference

to the fact that he was not there, and I apologize for it.

Maybe some of his colleagues over there might be able to tell me why it costs

eight times as much to put a transport truck on a ferry than the cost of a car,

even though it is done by length and not by weight, when a transport truck is

only three times the size of a car? Maybe somebody can also tell me why a senior

citizen is being charged 16 per cent more for a ride on that boat this year,

when the Finance Minister stands in this House and says they only have to pay 10

per cent more? Maybe he can tell me why, if the Minister of Innovation, Trade

and Rural Development goes out there this weekend, that she is going to have to

pay 18 per cent more to get on that boat when the minister says that she is only

suppose to pay 10 per cent?

Mr. Speaker, like I said, it is a job to tell where this Finance Minister

came from. I know that he was a teacher but I can guarantee you, he did not

teach math. He could not have taught math, because if he did he could not have

had any graduates, unless he doctored their grades. I will guarantee you, if

they doctored their grades they are not at math today and they are not in any

post-secondary institutions.

Mr. Speaker, when I say to you that I have calls every single day, to me,

saying: Gerry, the Premier gave a commitment. He has broken the commitment. He

has lied to us. What do I say, Mr. Speaker? What do I say to these constituents

when they call me day after day after day in my district? Like on the ferry, he

said he was going to eliminate the ferry rates. He has increased them by 25 per

cent. He also said while he was on Fogo Island - and maybe some of you people,

maybe he did the same in your districts only you do not have the audacity to

stand and actually say that he did in your district what he said in mine,

because not only was he going to eliminate ferry rates, he was also going to

open the hospital. He was going to open the hospital.

Now, if an individual who is supposed to a Rhodes scholar, a very influential

business person, an individual who is supposed to be very intelligent, came to

you seeking the Premier's job of this Province, and said to you: I am going to

open your hospital. If elected I will open your hospital. Because he was asked,

because a hospital has always been a big issue on Fogo Island. Everywhere he

went he was asked: If you are elected will you open our hospital? Do you know

what he said? Yes, I will definitely open your hospital. In fact, in one town he

said: Gerry Reid will never open that hospital. He said that in the town council

office in Tilting to the town council. He said: Gerry Reid will never open that

hospital but I will. I will open that hospital.

Then we have a Minister of Health, whom I asked a month-and-a-half ago what

she is going to do with it, she has not responded to me yet. When the Premier

was in Gander his press secretary leaked it to the media - while in Gander

giving a speech on something else, because the Premier did not even have the

audacity to say it in front of a camera or in front of a microphone. The Premier's

press secretary went out and told a CBC reporter: Oh, yes, we are opening the

hospital on Fogo Island but we are only opening half the beds. Do you think that

the people of Fogo Island, when they took the Premier at his word - prior to and

during the election - that he was going to open the hospital, who would you

think, would even speculate: Does he mean all of the hospital? Because everyone

assumed it was going to be all of the hospital. But guess what? He is only

opening half the hospital.

He told the people of Fogo Island - he was driving down the road and there

was a Works, Services and Transportation employee down fixing the potholes. He

slowed down in his vehicle and said: How are you getting on, boy? The fellow who

was fixing the potholes in the road between Joe Batts Arm and the center of the

Island looked at him and said -

MADAM SPEAKER (Ms Osborne): Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time is up.

Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. REID: Madam Speaker, the individual asked him: If you are elected

will I still have my job? He said there are no layoffs coming!

MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: I will not quote the words he said, but he said your job will

be there. He was laid off today (inaudible).

MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!

Leave has been denied.

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I want to say a few words on this Private Member's Resolution put forward

by the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

Madam Speaker, I was sitting and listening for the past three speakers: the

Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au

Clair, and the Member for Twillingate & Fogo. I stood -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask hon. members to please keep the noise down.

MR. J. BYRNE: Madam Speaker, as I was saying, I sat in my chair and

listened to the three previous speakers. I did not interrupt and I would

certainly appreciate the same courtesy from members on the other side of the

House.

Madam Speaker, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo just mentioned that the

Minister of Transportation and Works is not in his chair. There is a good reason

for that. The minister is on Her Majesty's business. He asked me to speak on

his behalf today. He had committed to certain things he had to do on Her Majesty's

business and he did not know that this motion would be discussed or debated in

the House of Assembly today. We only found out on -

MR. PARSONS: Two days ago.

MR. J. BYRNE: We only found out on Monday. Relax, I say to the Opposition

House Leader. Relax.

Madam Speaker, I want to say a few words on this. The Member for Fortune

Bay-Cape la Hune usually gets up here in this House of Assembly, and I enjoy

listening to him. He usually speaks from the heart and he speaks with

conviction, and when he is bringing forward a motion of this nature he is

concerned about rural Newfoundland. I have no quarrels with that at all, Madam

Speaker. I believe he put this forward with good intentions, and when he spoke,

he spoke from that perspective.

Madam Speaker, I find it a bit ironic, when we have members on the opposite

side of the House bringing forth these private members' resolutions, when

members on that side, many of them, have been there anywhere from ten to fifteen

years and they want us to accomplish in six months what they couldn't

accomplish in fifteen years.

Madam Speaker, the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune is quite right in his

statements, and it was in our Blue Book, that over a five-year period we would

bring the rates in the Province for provincial ferry routes in line with the

cost of highway travel. We had that there and we certainly had the same good

intentions as the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune. Madam Speaker, again we

have to live in the real world in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We

are still committed to that, to getting the rates in the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador equivalent to highway travel, but it is going to take

us a little bit longer than we had anticipated for many reasons.

We have been discussing the Budget, Madam Speaker, in this House of Assembly

for the past number of weeks, and, you know, members on the opposite side of the

House, for some strange reason, cannot comprehend, for whatever reason, the

actual financial situation we find ourselves in, in the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador today.

MR. PARSONS: The one they put us in.

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes. I am going to get into that, Madam Speaker. The

Opposition House Leader said: They put us in it. They played a major role in

putting us in the financial situation we are in today in the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador. They will not believe it, for some strange reason.

Madam Speaker, we are now in a situation where we are over $11 billion

dollars in debt in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Really, $2.7

billion since 1999. There are members there for the past fifteen years. As a

matter of fact, since the mid-1990s, we went from a $5.5 billion debt to an $11

billion debt. It is all well and good, but they are the people who have

contributed to it, big time.

MR. SWEENEY: How much went into your district?

MR. J. BYRNE: I am glad you asked, I say to the Member for

Carbonear-Harbour Grace. He asked how much went into my district. Well, I would

say -

MR. SWEENEY: A stadium.

MR. J. BYRNE: Now, he refers to a stadium in my district. Well, I would

love to see the stadium that is down there, I say to the Member for

Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

AN HON. MEMBER: It is not there.

MR. J. BYRNE: It is not there. Where did it go, Madam Speaker? They took

the money, on that side of the House, that was allocated by the previous

Minister of Finance a number of years ago - the minister was actually Paul

Dicks. A million dollars gone just like that to Gander. He stood in this House,

in this very spot here, and just took it away. The members on that side have

played politics in every sense of the word, Madam Speaker, with respect to the

money in this Province, and that is why we find ourselves in the situation we

are in today: $2.7 billion debt more since 1999. Last year, $900 million, over

$900 million deficit for a population of 500,000 people - in one year, a $900

million deficit - and they wonder why we cannot do this at this point in time to

bring the rates in line with the cost of travel around the highways of the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: Another point I want to add, and they seem to turn away

from this, when we talk about the ferry systems in the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador, for some strange reason a few years ago, and they seem to forget

this one, when the South Coast ferry system was being funded and paid for by the

federal government - paid for by the federal government, year in, year out -

what did the crowd do on the other side of the House - the Opposition now, who

were the government of the day? They sold the rights away for $55 million. Now,

Madam Speaker, how short-sighted, $55 million, and the big argument was, they

would put this money in a fund and pay for the cost of the ferry operation on

the South Coast each and every year from the interest off this fund.

That is not what happened. They took that $55 million and threw it into the

general revenues on a given year - I think it was 1996 or 1997 - and tried to

say that they had a balanced Budget. Then, to complicate matters even worse, now

the $55 million is gone and it leaves us, on this side of the House, because we

have now inherited this mess, $55 million gone. It now costs $2.6 million a year

to operate the South Coast ferry system alone. Madam Speaker, $2.6 million that

we now have to come up with each year that used to be paid for by the federal

government, but now we have to do it. We have to find that on this side of the

House, something that they did not have to bother with, Madam Speaker, because

they abused, again, one of the one-time deals that they had to try - and they

talk about us misrepresenting the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. They talk

about us not giving the true figures when they, year after year, for a number of

years, came in here saying: We have a balanced budget.

Madam Speaker, it is all well and good to stand on that side of the House now

and ask us to do in six months what they could not do in fifteen years, and

taking the one-shot deals - as I said, the $55 million for the South Coast ferry

system, and then we have Labrador, the ferry system, the South Coast of

Labrador. What did they do up there? The same scenario, Madam Speaker, the same

scenario. When the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund is used up, then we

are going to be left holding the bag again, in the same scenario, same

situation. Again, they criticize us, Madam Speaker. Sometimes I have to wonder

where they are coming from.

MR. SWEENEY: Madam Speaker, a point of order.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Madam Chair, it is all find and dandy for the hon. member,

the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, to make all kinds of

accusations about what happened in the past; but the truth of it all is, the

matter that is facing us today, we are dealing with a Budget where people are

gone out the door and their salaries are still left in the Budget. Madam

Speaker, that is misrepresenting a Budget to the people of this Province. Never

mind what we did in the past; it is what they are doing now.

MADAM SPEAKER: There is no point of order. It is merely a point of

clarification.

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Again, we see the same irresponsible attitude from the member who just stood.

I heard the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair stand in her place here the

other day and say: We have somewhat of a deficit and we owe a little bit of

money.

MR. SWEENEY: A point of order, Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for

Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Madam Speaker, this member does not have an irresponsible

attitude. I feel very, very put out about what is happening to the poor people

of this Province, the public servants who are being put out the door. There is

nothing irresponsible in my comments.

MADAM SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Again, I would say to the hon. member opposite, from his perspective, from

his point of view, he may not feel that he is being irresponsible, but that

Administration, when there were in power on this side of the House of Assembly,

Madam Speaker, when they were government, they were an irresponsible government

with the attitude they had, with the actions they took. Again, the one-shot

deals, they went to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro and raped that, the funds

there. They went with the South Coast ferry system. They went with the Term 29,

again. I think they took something like twenty years - and for people out there

who do not know, and the Member for Bellevue seems to be getting all upset

because he cannot take the truth. We had Term 29 where there was, I think, $5

million a year from the federal government that was given to this Province, and

what did they do? They took something like twenty years to twenty-five years of

that, one-shot deal, threw it in to balance the Budget, and that is another $5

million that we have to come up with on this side of the House.

It is all well and good for them to get over there and get on their high

horses and talk about what we are doing here, but we are trying to be

responsible in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We are trying to put

it back on the rails, which those people put a lot towards putting it off the

rails, and they are not going to do anything about it. All they want to do is

get up and criticize. Why don't you try and be more constructive, I say to

you, and put forward ideas instead of trying to tear apart everything that we

are trying to accomplish on this side of the House?

Yes, we brought down a hard Budget and yesterday we had a hard day in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador with just under 200 people getting their

layoff notices. Yes, that is true. We all have people we know there, but they

get up and they are trying to say it is 350 people who got their notices, for

example. Madam Speaker, when they were in government - talk about a government

with no heart - they let go between 2,000 and 3,000 people just before

Christmas. At least we are trying to do it through attrition, to put this

Province back on the rails. I would say to the members opposite, maybe they

should get off their high horse.

Now, let's talk about something else, Madam Speaker, while we are in the

situation, and why we cannot do what they are asking us to do in this private

member's resolution. Let's talk about the attitude again. Let's talk about

the Apollo , the ferry crossing from St. Barbe to Blanc-Sablon. It was

given out again at a point in time, and it is a vessel which was basically too

large for the route, and they had to make alternations to the docking up there,

costing millions more. Then, just before the election last year, what did they

do? They awarded the contract, back to the same company that had it, six or

seven months before it was required to do that. For what reason? For one reason

only: that they could give it back to their buddy again. That is what is going

on here, and we are being criticized for trying to accomplish things in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that have to be done.

Let's talk about the ferry rates in the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador, the interprovincial ferry rates. There are some out there that are

below the cost of travel on the highways, there are some out there above the

cost per mile of travelling on the highway, and there are some out there around

the same. We are commited on this side of the House to bring the rates in line

with the cost of travel on the highways in Newfoundland and Labrador. It is not

going to happen overnight, and we realize that.

Madam Speaker, I stood in this House of Assembly many times when I was in

Opposition. I did not talk a lot about the rates, but I will tell you what I did

talk about: the vessels that are used in the ferry system of Newfoundland and

Labrador, and the different routes. We talked about Hull 100 , where they

put a lot of money into that, and finally we are going to see her put into the

system. What I did talk about was putting a vessel replacement policy in place

in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We are only six months in, Madam

Speaker, and it was something that I was after that Administration for ten

years, for a vessel replacement policy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: If they would like to listen, Madam Speaker, I was after

them for ten years to put a proper vessel replacement policy in place in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Instead of going to Europe and purchasing

rustbuckets, spending millions on them, what do we do? The first Budget that we

have had, we have $2.4 million for a vessel refit program - the very first

Budget - and we were after that crowd over there for years, and nothing.

We are taking steps towards doing what is needed to be done in the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador. We want to get the rates in line for the ferries

with the cost of travelling on the highways in our Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador. It may take a bit longer than we had anticipated - we will get there -

but we have to be responsible to all the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

That is where we are coming from, at this point in time, and in due course,

Madam Speaker, I am sure we will accomplish what we set out to do, again, if we

could get some co-operation from the members on the other side of the House, and

people out there who seem to think that all we want to do is to basically nail

people to the cross. That is not the case, Madam Speaker, not the case at all.

We are trying to do what is best for most of the people in Newfoundland and

Labrador. From my prospective, what we have to try and do is try and please most

of the people, most of the time.

Madam Speaker, I see that my time is up, and I am glad to have the

opportunity to be able to speak to this private member's resolution today.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on the motion put forward by my

colleague from Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, and it is certainly a pleasure to speak

as the Critic for Transportation and Works.

Madam Speaker, I listened to the Member for Cape St. Francis speak and, I

guess, we are speaking today on the motion put forward, but he sort of evaded. I

just want to touch on a couple of points he made.

He said: Do not expect us to do, in seven months, what your government didn't

do in fifteen or sixteen years. Madam Speaker, the message is clear from the

people on this side of the House and from the people out around the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador. They are saying: Do not tear down in six months what

the previous government gave to this Province over fifteen or sixteen years.

Madam Speaker, that is the statement that should be used.

He talked of the L