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March 25, 2015 HOUSE

OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVII No. 67

The

House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Verge):

Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today I am pleased to welcome to the public gallery some members of the

Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Social Workers.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

Statements by

Members

MR. SPEAKER:

Today we will hear

members' statements from Members for the Districts of Port au Port, Trinity

Bay de Verde, Port de Grave, Cartwright L'Anse au Clair, Kilbride, and

Conception Bay South.

The

hon. the Member for Port au Port.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. CORNECT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, I rise to congratulate the many volunteers of the Bay St. George

Sick Children's Foundation on another successful telethon, which was held on

March 22, 2015.

Mr.

Speaker, Bay St. George Sick Children's Foundation was established in 1996

to provide financial assistance to sick children and their family members

when they need to access care at a medical facility outside the area, or out

of the Province, if necessary.

Mr.

Speaker, it is important to note that the volunteers of this Foundation work

tirelessly year-round to raise funds to assist children and their families

with needs related to medical travel that are not covered by other sources.

Many service groups and businesses in the Bay St. George area

generously support this exceptional organization.

Mr.

Speaker, this Foundation is a 100 per cent volunteer organization, and the

administrative expenses have been sustained at less than 3 per cent annually

since its inception.

ask all hon. members to join with me in congratulating the volunteers of the

Bay St. George Sick Children's Foundation, and all those who have supported

this invaluable organization.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Trinity Bay de Verde.

MR. CROCKER:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

rise in this hon. House today to recognize This Little Light 2015, a program

sponsored by the Masonic Lodge of Heart's Content.

This

year, members of the Masonic Lodge of Heart's Content, in partnership with

the Communities Against Violence, invited six elementary schools from

Trinity South to participate in their fourth annual poster contest.

Being that February was Violence Prevention Month, the theme of the contest

was friendship first. Students

were asked to depict friendship as an alternative to violence and bullying.

Participating schools included Tricon Elementary from Bay de Verde, Perlwin

Elementary in Winterton, and Acreman Elementary in Green's Harbour, along

with others. The contest

concluded, recognizing all students who had demonstrated art with a concept

of friendship first.

was wonderful to attend and see what young eager minds can communicate

through art. A proclamation

against violence and bullying was read and signed by students from each of

the schools, along with the members of the lodge.

At the end of the celebration, prizes and certificates were awarded

to students.

ask all hon. members to congratulate all participating students, as well as

the members of Masonic Lodge of Heart's Content, for a job well done on this

most important issue.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

the District of Port de Grave.

MR. LITTLEJOHN:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

rise today in this hon. House to congratulate Ms Lynch's Grade 3 class from

Coley's Point Primary who are HotShots at energy conservation.

They won five new iPads for their class and were one of four

provincial grand prize winners in this year's contest sponsored by

Newfoundland Power and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro.

The

contest is designed to raise awareness about the importance of energy

conservation and is one of several components offered through the HotShots

initiative and the takeCHARGE school programs.

The program engages students in a fun way to think about ways to

conserve energy and protect our environment for future generations.

The

students, through their own research, created visual displays to demonstrate

their understanding of energy conservation.

A digital story was then created using student voices to go with

their pictures. The video

displayed the student's knowledge about why saving energy is important in

the Twenty-first Century and showed meaningful ways to be energy efficient

at home and school. Mr. Hurley,

the principal, says the students' work truly is an example of how we can all

learn to conserve energy every day.

ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating these students on being

energy HotShots.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

the District of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Mr.

Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate Marcel O'Brien of

L'Anse-au-Loup, who was chosen as the 2014 inductee into the Atlantic Canada

Marine Industries Hall of Fame.

After graduating from the College of Fisheries in the early 1970s, he began

his career as an engineer on the Strait of Belle Isle ferry.

In 1979, he bought his first vessel and embarked on a thirty-five

year career.

Marcel was one of the founders of the Labrador Fishermen's Union Shrimp

Company Limited. He served as a

director for many years, and is one of only two fishermen to be president of

the company. In the early 1980s

he was appointed L'Anse-au-Loup's harbour master, and went on to serve as

President of the Harbour Authority for many years.

Marcel served as Chair of the L'Anse-au-Loup Fishermen's Committee, and as

Labrador Director for the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary for twenty-five

years, many as first vice-president.

Marcel continues his career today by instructing Fishing Masters

Class 3 and 4.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating Marcel O'Brien

as the 2014 inductee to the Atlantic Canada Marine Industries Hall of Fame.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

the District of Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. DINN:

Mr. Speaker, I stand

today to highlight the efforts of Margie Stead of Kilbride.

In 2009, Margie's niece, Jeannette, who had recently visited Africa,

told Margie about the abject poverty in which many orphan children in Kenya

were living. In spite of

multiple sclerosis, Margie started a group to help and in November 2009,

$1,800 was sent to Kenya.

Since then, this non-profit group, Matthew 25 Outreach Inc., have been

fundraising and sending substantial amounts of money to Gideon's Children's

House and School, an orphanage that originally had forty-two orphaned and

at-risk children, but now looks after 180.

The on-site school feeds and educates another 220 impoverished

children.

Through Margie's leadership and hard work, the orphanage has been provided

with food, clothing, medicine, beds, washrooms, a chicken coop, seed,

salaries, and a six-room schoolhouse.

recent drought in Kenya caused the orphanage much hardship.

Their shallow wells went dry, and 50 per cent of their crops were

lost. Today, the children and

staff have to walk six kilometres to get water from a dirty river.

Margie and her group are now raising $20,000 to drill an artesian

well.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all members to join me in commending the charitable work of

Margie Stead.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

the District of Conception Bay South.

MR. HILLIER:

Mr. Speaker, recently I

had the privilege to attend the fifth Annual Athlete and Coach of the Year

and Sports Hall of Fame Ceremony in Conception Bay South.

I thank the town and their staff for organizing this event and for

recognizing the extraordinary contributions of past and present athletes and

coaches. I can assure you that

with the tremendous athletic talent in Conception Bay South, it is no easy

task to select these award winners.

Mr.

Speaker, for 2014, Heather Healey was named Senior Female Athlete of the

Year, and Tyler Hennessey was recognized as the Senior Male Athlete of the

Year. In addition, the Junior

Female Athlete for 2014 was Jessica Davis, and the Junior Male Athlete was

Steven Rideout. The distinction

for Coach of the Year went to long-time coach, Mr. Eric Hart.

The

town has also inducted several members of the community to the Conception

Bay South Sports Hall of Fame.

This year Arthur Tilley was inducted as an Athlete/Builder, Emily Babb as a

Builder, and Gerald Tilley as a player.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all members to join me in offering congratulations to the

winners and thank the Town of Conception Bay South for their continued

support for active living in the community.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Statements by Ministers.

Statements by

Ministers

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Seniors, Wellness and Social Development, and the Minister for Advanced

Education and Skills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN:

Mr. Speaker, I rise today

to recognize a significant milestone in the professional career of Dr.

Suzanne Brake, Director of Seniors and Aging and Provincial Director of

Adult Protection, with the Department of Seniors, Wellness and Social

Development.

Dr.

Brake has been named the Newfoundland and Labrador recipient of the Canadian

Association of Social Workers Distinguished Service Award for 2015.

This morning I had the pleasure of attending an event to recognize

this achievement, which was hosted by the Newfoundland and Labrador

Association of Social Workers.

Mr.

Speaker, it comes as no surprise to me, or to Dr. Brake's colleagues, that

she has been recognized for her outstanding contributions to the social work

profession. I have witnessed her

dedication and professionalism first-hand, Mr. Speaker, and I know that this

acknowledgment is well deserved.

Dr.

Brake's social work education includes a Bachelor of Social Work and Masters

of Social Work both from Memorial and a Ph.D from the University of

Calgary. Over the past

thirty-five years, she has worked in direct practice, management, research,

policy development, and education.

In 2005, she joined the provincial government and has been

instrumental in developing and implementing the Provincial Healthy Aging

Policy Framework. This framework

has resulted in a host of programs and initiatives designed to combat ageism

and provide more opportunities for seniors to live healthy, active lives,

and to become more engaged in their communities.

Last

week, my colleague, the hon. the Minister of Child, Youth and Family

Services, rose in this Hose to note that March is National Social Work

Month. Mr. Speaker, I would like

to add my thanks and appreciation to the social workers of Newfoundland and

Labrador for the work they do, day in and day out, to support our most

vulnerable populations.

would also like to thank the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Social

Workers for inviting me to participate in this morning's celebration of Dr.

Brake's achievement. Dr. Brake

is with us in the visitors' gallery today I will ask her to wave or stand.

Here she is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN:

She is here, along with

some of her colleagues and members of the association.

invite all members of this House to join me in congratulating Dr. Suzanne

Brake on her national Distinguished Service Award.

She is a true example of the calibre of talent and knowledge we have

within the public service in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr.

Speaker, I said this morning, despite all of her credits and her education,

the most important thing about her is that she cares.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. HILLIER:

Mr. Speaker, I thank the

minister for an advance copy of his statement.

I am pleased to join in congratulating Dr. Suzanne Brake on receiving

the Canadian Association of Social Workers Distinguished Service Award for

2015. It is no doubt a momentous

occasion to be recognized for one's work in such a way by one's peer.

As an aluminous of Memorial University, Dr. Brake exemplifies the

calibre of graduates memorial produces.

the Director of Seniors and Aging, as well as the Provincial Director of

Adult Protection, Dr. Brake's role is a challenging one.

Newfoundland and Labrador has the oldest population per capita in

Canada. We have all heard the

statistics: One in four people in the Province will be sixty-five or older

in 2025. Today, one in four

people in the Province are already over sixty.

Our population is aging and declining, and these are challenging

demographics indeed.

was surprised to learn that only four staff are responsible for the division

of aging and seniors in government; four staff to focus on the issues over

90,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

Dr.

Brake is one of them and she is to be commended for her achievements, her

ambition, and her insight.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

too thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

Congratulations to Dr. Suzanne Brake for her passion and compassion

throughout her career as a social worker.

She has been a leader in shining a light on the needs of seniors

Province-wide, and a leader in helping develop policy that respects and

honours the seniors who have helped build this marvelous Province.

look forward to continuing to work with Dr. Brake as we develop ways to

address the crucial needs of the growing aging population of Newfoundland

and Labrador.

Bravo Dr. Suzanne Brake and our social workers of Newfoundland and Labrador,

thank you for your expertise and commitment.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Environment and Conservation and the Minister of Service Newfoundland and

Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. CRUMMELL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge the important work of municipal water

system operators and to congratulate this year's recipients of the Operator

of the Year and Volunteer Operator of the Year awards, which were handed out

this morning at the Clean and Safe Drinking Water Workshop in Gander.

These awards are presented annually to one operator and one volunteer

operator nominated by their communities, for their dedication and

outstanding contribution to providing clean and safe drinking water.

The

winners will have demonstrated ingenuity, proficiency, dedication, and

professionalism in water system operation.

They must be certified or working towards certification, participate

in education and training opportunities, show leadership, provide support to

other workers, and go that extra mile for their community.

I am very pleased to tell you that the department received twenty-six

very deserving nominations this year, and we were overwhelmed with the

letters of praise submitted in support of these operators.

I am

happy to announce to this hon. House that Marvin Bull of the Town of

Eastport has been named this year's Operator of the Year and Victor Keats of

the local service district of Phillips Head has been named Volunteer

Operator of the Year.

Mr.

Speaker, delivering clean and safe drinking water to the residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador is a challenging responsibly for communities.

This workshop provides an opportunity for operators to come together

to increase their knowledge and share real-life local experiences.

It also enables operators here in the Province to learn from those

involved in delivering clean drinking water in other parts of Canada and the

United States.

are always pleased to see such a great turnout for this event, and would

like to thank the Department of Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs for

their continued financial support through the provision of a travel subsidy

for communities that participate in the workshop.

Addressing water quality issues is a priority for that department as

well. In 2014-15, over $6.3

million was invested in drinking water quality-related projects including

new facilities and upgrading of water treatment infrastructure and

feasibility studies.

ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating this year's winners and

all the nominees. I thank each

and every one of them for their continued commitment to delivering clean and

safe drinking water to the residents of this Province.

This is a commitment shared by government.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

The Straits White Bay North.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

The Official Opposition certainly congratulates Marvin Bull of the

Town of Eastport for being named operator of the year, and Victor Keats of

the local service district of Phillips Head as volunteer operator of the

year, and certainly to thank all operators from across the Province for

providing important service, many times with very limited resources.

Two

years ago I put forward a private member's motion on updating the safe and

clean drinking water strategy.

Despite our efforts, we are a have Province with many residents who do not

have access to safe and clean drinking water.

At any given time, we have 200 water boil advisories in over 150

communities, and that number has been consistent year over year despite

millions of dollars spent.

have recent reports from communities with excessive levels of THMs, arsenic,

chloroforms and E.coli. Much

remains to be done. Many

communities may have good systems but they do not have the ability to

maintain or operate. There needs

to be an ability to detect leaks and matters, and prevent situations from

towns that are without water due to lack of backup power and others that are

forced to declare a state of emergency.

Water is a big issue.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's East.

MR. MURPHY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

would also like to thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement

here today. Congratulations to

both Marvin Bull from the Town of Eastport, and Victor Keats of the local

service district of Phillips Head who have been named the volunteer

operators of the year awards.

Mr.

Speaker, year after year, day after day, not a month has gone by where we do

not talk about the water issues in this Province, and to see on the

government website, even just today over 220 boil water advisories is

unacceptable. I also have to

note too, Mr. Speaker, that the reasons over 220 for these shutdowns,

the disinfection system is shut off due to maintenance or mechanical

failures, reasons including E.coli, Mr. Speaker.

We have problems

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

remind the member his time has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in

this hon. House today to highlight oilandgascareerinfo.ca an interactive

website designed for young people to explore career options in the

provincial oil and gas industry.

Careers range from skilled trades to technical and engineering professions,

project management and marine service disciplines.

The

website was developed by the Petroleum Industry Human Resources Committee

which is known as PIHRC and is dedicated to encouraging young

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to pursue post-secondary education and

training leading to employment in the oil and gas industry.

I am

pleased to note that activities, including this website, are supported by

industry and through funding provided by the Labour Market Partnerships

Program, administered by the Department of Advanced Education and Skills.

Paul

Barnes, Co-Chair of PIHRC and Manager, Atlantic Canada and Arctic with the

Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, noted recently that the PIHRC

website provides students with the tools to help them make informed

decisions regarding their career path in the oil and gas industry.

Bob

Cadigan, also Co-Chair of PIHRC and President and CEO of Noia, remarked that

PIHRC strives to encourage youth in the many opportunities this dynamic

industry has to offer.

Newfoundland and Labrador is entering the next generation of oil and gas

development as shown by recent positive announcements.

certainly agree. Recent

developments point to the oil and gas industry's long-term potential.

Oil was discovered at Bay du Nord, a new scheduled land tenure system

was introduced, the latest Calls for Bids resulted in a $559 million

commitment to exploration in the Flemish Pass Basin, and an increase in

reserves was announced for the Hibernia field with an estimated 1.6 billion

barrels of oil.

Mr.

Speaker, young people are making their mark on the oil and gas industry and

play an important

part in contributing to the prosperous future of our

Province.

encourage students interested in pursuing a career in the Newfoundland and

Labrador oil and gas industry to take a look at the information and

resources available on oilandgascareerinfo.ca.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.

Mr.

Speaker, I solemnly believe there is not one person in this House of

Assembly who is not striving to keep our youth in our Province.

This is an initiative which will help youth to make a decision on

their future in the oil and gas industry.

notice the Department of Advanced Education and Skills put money into it.

I know the Member for Gander had promoted this for a number of

months, Mr. Speaker, beforehand, and I know the current minister is very

much involved with keeping youth in this Province.

Mr.

Speaker, the oil and gas is a flourishing industry in this Province.

There are times when we always said where youth have to make a career

change or make a career decision, this website will definitely help the

youth in that avenue.

Mr.

Speaker, to all the youth, visit the website and look at the opportunities

that are available in the oil and gas industry.

I always said our youth is what we need to keep in our Province.

This is one step to keep our youth in our Province.

The Official Opposition is all for this website and to help the

youth.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

too, thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.

Yes, I am delighted to see young people benefit from the oil and gas

industry and benefit from this website that will help them in searching for

jobs. Young people should also

be cautioned that those jobs in the Province are quite limited.

The oil and gas sector is actually one of our lowest employers.

Undoubtedly, there are opportunities elsewhere on a worldwide basis, but

opportunity is limited for those who want to stay in the Province.

My question to government is: What are they doing about diversifying

the economy and creating jobs for the Province's young people in other

industries as well?

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, the lab

audits completed at Eastern Health are a cause for great concern.

There were fifty-one issues identified in the internal audit.

In particular, concern was raised that not all Cameron

recommendations were being followed.

ask the minister: How confident are you that all Cameron recommendations are

being fully implemented with regard to the labs at Eastern Health?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, as I

explained previously in this hon. House, we have a process in place to

ensure that we are following all standards that are in place within our

laboratories and that our testing practices are sound and accurate.

The recommendations stemming from the Cameron inquiry have certainly

improved patient safety and the quality of health care.

have invested millions of dollars through our regional health authorities in

implementing Cameron recommendations.

We are constantly monitoring the progress on those recommendations.

light of these recent issues at the pathology lab, I received a full review

on progress with Cameron recommendations.

Things are going as we would expect, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, the

minister said back in this House on December 15 that only five of the

Cameron recommendations were not fully implemented.

However, we have an ATIPP from Eastern Health that shows on December

4, a week before he stood here in the House and answered the question,

twelve of the recommendations were not fully implemented.

ask the minister: Are you telling us that Eastern implemented seven

recommendations in just nine days, or are you putting incorrect information,

either intention or unintentional, in this House?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, I believe

there were sixty recommendations coming out of the Cameron report.

Fifty-five of sixty are fully implemented.

We monitor those fifty-five as well to ensure ongoing compliance.

From time to time there may be an issue arise.

We have quality assurance processes in place within our regional

health authorities to ensure those issues are addressed.

There are five additional recommendations where work is ongoing in order to

be fully compliant, but as the minister responsible, I can assure people

that I am pleased with the progress that is being made.

Patient safety is always paramount, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

There is still no

answer to this, Mr. Speaker.

Again, ATIPP right here from Eastern Health shows that on December 4 there

were twelve recommendations that were not fully implemented.

The minister said there was only five.

The

minister stated in this House, on December 15, when I asked questions about

the lab audit, he said he just received a copy of the report that morning;

however, this ATIPP shows that his department actually had a copy of this

report four days earlier.

ask the minister: Can you please explain how you were not aware of this

report until four days after your officials had a copy of it?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, obviously, I

do not have knowledge of what documents the member has received through an

ATIPP request. What I can assure

you, and I can assure this hon. House and the member opposite, of course, is

that I received the report when I said I received the report on the day in

question.

have made significant progress with the recommendations of the Cameron

inquiry. Fifty-five or sixty

recommendations are now complete or substantially complete, and we are

monitoring them on an ongoing basis.

have invested over $43 million to address the concerns arising from the

Cameron report and to implement those recommendations.

These are new positions.

There are new initiatives related to quality improvement.

Ultimately, cancer care is in a better place.

Our lab testing is in a better place.

Patient safety is in a better place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I ask

the same question again.

The

minster stood here on December 15 and said he just got the report that

morning. His officials had this

very important, significant report four days earlier.

ask the minister: Why was this report not given to you until four days

later? Was it not important

enough?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Officials are interacting with the health authorities on a daily basis, on

an hourly basis, in our department.

There are lots of times where they receive information, there is

analysis required, notes are prepared, and reports are prepared for the

minister's review.

can assure you that I received the report on the day I said I received the

report, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, the

question is: Why didn't you get this report when the department received it

four days earlier?

I am

not saying you did not get it until the fifteenth.

I am saying why did you have to wait until the fifteenth?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, it is not

uncommon to see members of the Opposition throw public servants under the

bus on a frequent basis.

Mr.

Speaker, there are processes in each and every department

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. KENT:

of government.

Officials require time to receive information, to analyze it, to

prepare reports and recommendations for ministers.

That happens each and every day.

The

report was brought to my attention on a timely basis.

I reviewed the report immediately.

Action was taken by department immediately.

More importantly, action was taken by Eastern Health immediately to

address any concerns that had arose in the pathology lab, and I am pleased

with the progress that has been made.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, the

minister can deflect responsibility, but he should remember, he is just that

he is the minister. The buck

stops with him.

According to Eastern Health, the information that he provided in this House

on December 15 was factually incorrect.

He had access to this information four days prior.

The information he gave here was incorrect.

So I

say to the minister: Is this not a serious enough issue for you to be on top

of this file?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, the concerns

that arose at the pathology lab caused me great concern as minister so

much so that I had direct interaction with the leadership of the regional

health authority. In this

instance, it is Eastern Health.

I have asked for regular updates.

I have monitored the progress of the work of the University Health

Network to ensure that all of the concerns that were raised were addressed.

is important to keep in mind that these concerns that were raised came about

as a result of a routine quality assurance process that is in place in each

of the regional health authorities.

That process was put in place and approved based on the Cameron

recommendations, Mr. Speaker. In

this case, the checks and balances in our system worked as they should.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

I think the minister

should review the ATIPP and again, I will provide him the ATIPP from his

own department, if he wants to have a look at it to see how serious this is.

This is not a case of just routine.

The

Cameron recommendations were delivered six years ago this month.

This government has constantly touted the millions of dollars $43

million, in fact, according to the minister that have been invested into

implementing Cameron recommendations.

The minster has a responsibility to the people of this Province to

ensure that the money this government is investing is being used for the

best outcome.

So I

ask the minister: Given the $43 million you say you have invested, can you

please explain to the people of the Province why some of these

recommendations have not been fully implemented six years later?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, major

change, transformational change, systemic change, takes time, and it takes

resources. Quality improvement

and quality assurance is an ongoing process.

It is a journey; it is does not have a start and an end point.

So, we are constantly monitoring practices and procedures within our

health care facilities to ensure that we are doing the best job we can to

ensure patient safety.

have seen major progress in quality and patient safety with diagnostic

services, post-Cameron report, and we have seen improvements in the overall

health care system. All of our

laboratories in this Province are accredited.

We have medical laboratory technologists included under the Health

Professions Act. We are making

great progress, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, the

minister can stand and try to sugar coat this, but there were and there are

serious problems in this lab.

ask the minister again: Given the investments that you have made and the

recommendations that have still not six years later been fully

implemented, will you order a forensic audit to ensure that government's

money went where it was supposed to go?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, I am very

proud of the progress that has been made in implementing the Cameron

recommendations. We have seen

investments to replace radiation treatment machinery at the cancer centre,

we have seen investments towards a new PET scanner, new drug therapies.

We have implemented recommendations identified in the report of the

task force on adverse health events.

We have invested in the oncology patient information system.

As I mentioned previously, all of our labs are new fully accredited.

We have a provincial electronic occurrence reporting system in place

as well.

There are five recommendations that are more complex in nature.

They require legislative change and long-term investment, but I

assure you they are an ongoing priority for this government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, again, I

will repeat. I am going to give

the minister a copy of this that shows twelve recommendations of the

twenty-two related to the pathology lab have not been fully implemented.

The minister can stand up and talk about them but it is not

happening. These are serious

issues.

said time and time again, $43 million invested in fully implementing Cameron

inquiries. It is six years

later, they are not all done. In

fact, some that were done had been reverted to the original problem areas.

say to the minister: Will you order a forensic audit to ensure that the

monies paid to Eastern Health were spent appropriately?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, I am a little concerned at the suggestion that a forensic audit

would somehow be required. It

implies wrong doing. I can

assure you that health officials within our department and within the

regional health authorities have worked hard to ensure full implementation

of the Cameron recommendations.

As I

said previously, fifty-five of sixty are now complete or substantially

complete. After receiving that

report on December 15, I immediately ordered a full review to ensure

compliance with Cameron recommendations.

I did receive that report, and I am satisfied that the information

that I am providing to this House, Mr. Speaker, is indeed accurate.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Torngat Mountains.

MR. EDMUNDS:

Mr. Speaker, the Minister

of Transportation and Works has acknowledged in writing to the RFP

proponents for new Labrador ferry services that the start date of 2016 is no

longer achievable. In this House

he has repeatedly stated otherwise.

ask the minister: Now that you admit that the 2016 start date is no longer

realistic, what is the new anticipated start date for the new ferry services

in Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I

noted in the House of Assembly over the last number of days, we take the

service to the people of Labrador very seriously.

We have done a very in-depth RFP process to ensure that the money we

are going to invest, which could be in the vicinity of $1 billion for the

people of Labrador

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. BRAZIL:

is exactly what will

better serve the people of that part of this great Province of ours, Mr.

Speaker.

are looking at trying to provide the service that will meet the needs of the

individuals. We have gone

through the process, we continue to do that.

The

intent here is to try to stay to our timelines as much as possible.

To ensure that we get the best return on our investment, Mr. Speaker,

we will have to assess exactly what the construction industry can do for us

and provide those services.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Torngat Mountains.

MR. EDMUNDS:

Mr. Speaker, the existing

marine services to Labrador is contracted until the proposed 2016 date

outlined in the RFP, in which the minister has admitted, is no longer

reachable. The start date is no

longer valid.

ask the minister: What plans do you have in place, given that the 2016

target date is not reachable anymore, to provide marine services to Labrador

once the existing contracts expire?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

are still obtaining information around how we best provide that service.

We are looking at the dates.

We are looking at the provider here and the proponents about what

they can deliver on a timely fashion.

We are assessing all of these processes.

If it is determined that it cannot be delivered on the timely fashion

that we have outlined in the RFP, Mr. Speaker, we will have an alternative

approach to supplying the people of Labrador with services.

have, for the last number of years, provided great service.

We wanted to improve on that.

We engaged in a process with stakeholders, we engaged with industry,

and we are getting to a place, Mr. Speaker, where I am confident we will

provide a better service to the people of Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS DEMPSTER:

Mr. Speaker, many and I

stress many Labradorians working at Muskrat Falls have not been recalled

since Christmas. They are being

told that Innu from the Province of Quebec are taking priority.

ask the minister: Why does the hiring protocol outlined in the Muskrat Falls

collective agreement continue to be ignored?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY:

Mr. Speaker, the Muskrat

Falls Project is a significant project where we are seeing thousands of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians being given an opportunity to work at

Muskrat Falls; but like any of the major projects, there is always a shift

and balance I guess in terms of the skillsets required as work is completed

and there is a change out of different skillsets.

Mr. Speaker, some people are hired back, some people are not.

That is ongoing for the project.

With

respect to any specific situations, certainly if the member has specific

situations there are protocols to be followed.

Nalcor are managing those protocols.

If anything comes to my office, we will certainly look into it.

Mr.

Speaker, it is important to understand, the project is progressing.

Thousands of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are getting an

opportunity to work, but there will be change out in the skillsets required

to build Muskrat Falls.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS DEMPSTER:

Mr. Speaker, I am not

talking about the shifting demographics of something that comes with a

project, the nature of a project.

The hiring protocol clearly states, qualified Labrador Innu first,

qualified residents of Labrador second, qualified residents of Newfoundland

third. Mr. Speaker, Quebec Innu

are not part of the hiring protocol but since their protest last month, all

of a sudden they are getting hiring preference.

ask the minister again: Are you suggesting that protesting is now the new

hiring practice for Muskrat Falls and the protocol has been thrown out the

window? Because that is what

happening. That is what

happening.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MR. DALLEY:

Mr. Speaker, absolutely,

I am not suggesting anything. In

fact, protocols are in place. We

would expect the right qualified people who should be hired to deliver

Muskrat Falls, Mr. Speaker, to work within the schedules, we would expect

that to be followed.

What

I also expect, Mr. Speaker, is people to realize that members opposite stand

here in this House and they argue about jobs for the people they represent.

I am okay with that, Mr. Speaker, but where were they when they had a

chance to stand on their feet and support the development of Muskrat Falls?

They sat in their seats, Mr. Speaker, when we were creating jobs in

Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, one of the

government members was no Open Line yesterday denying that the new Torbay

school has been reconfigured as a Grades 5 to 8 school.

Parents and teachers are now wondering who is right, the school board

or the member for the area.

Can

the Minister of Education please tell us if Grade 8s will be going to the

new school in Torbay? Will Grade

8s be attending the new school in Torbay, yes or no?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, the member opposite has indicated on a couple of occasions now that

we do not seem to know what is happening around the Torbay school.

So I am really glad that he has asked the question here in the House

of Assembly so I can answer the question.

What

is happening with the school in Torbay is exactly as it was proceeding all

along. The school was well into

the design plan for a 5-7 school.

That plan has continued on.

have consulted with the district on a regular basis.

The district is supportive of the notion of moving ahead with a Grade

5-7 school for Torbay. That is

where the situation was and is right now, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, I am not

sure if the minister understood my question.

The

member for the area was on Open Line yesterday arguing against having a

Grade 5-8 school, saying that people want a Grade 5-7 school.

He wants a 5-7 school, but the school board made a decision last

September to reconfigure this school from a Grade 5-7 to Grand 5-8.

ask the minister once again: Are Grade 8's going to be going to the new

school in Torbay, yes or no?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

is interesting to try to follow what is happening over on the other side.

They complain if there is a delay.

Then they stand up and ask for a delay is the best that I can

understand it, Mr. Speaker

What

we are looking at here is exactly what needs to be done, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS SULLIVAN:

We have been working with

the school district on this. The

school district is supportive of a 5-7 school for Torbay.

That is what the tender was called for.

We are looking forward to issuing that tender in the very near future

for a 5-7 school, with the complete and full support of the district no

delays.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, I just want

to get this straight again.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. KIRBY:

The school board decided

last September 19 to reconfigure this school to a Grade 5-8 school.

I have asked the minister twice now if Grade 8's are going to be

going there. I am not getting

any response back there one way or the other.

I asked for a yes or no answer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. KIRBY:

So, I will ask the

minister this way: Is the minister planning to override, to overturn, that

September 19 decision of the school board?

Is that what is going on here?

Because they made a decision and they issued a tender in any case for

5-7. So is the minister

overriding the decision that was made by the school board?

Because unless she is going to override it somehow, Grade 8's are

going to that school.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN:

Mr. Speaker, let me

answer both of his questions. He

asked will Grade 8's be going to the Grade 5-7 school.

No. It is a Grade 5-7

school, Mr. Speaker.

The

second part of the question is will I be overriding.

Mr. Speaker, I think I have made it very clear that we have worked in

consultation with the district around this.

The district very clearly indicated that they do not want to see

delays. We understand the need

for a 5-7 school. The district

wants to see a 5-7 school. The

district does not want to see any delays.

We are working in concert with them.

The tender has been called.

We hope to issue that very soon, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Carbonear Harbour Grace.

MR. SLADE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, while there has been an abundance of cod in 3PS two years in a row,

fishermen in the under-sixty-five-foot fleet have struggled to find markets

for their fish, and had to leave their quotas in the water.

ask the minister: What has this government planned for the 2015 season to

guarantee that there is enough processing capacity for the 3PS fishers to

sell their catch?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. GRANTER:

Mr. Speaker, the 3PS

fishers, I have had the opportunity to meet with the 3PS fishers on at least

two occasions in the last number of months since I became the Minister of

Fisheries and Aquaculture for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

We have been in consultation with them for the last number of months

and, very recently in the last three weeks, I met with them again.

the last year, Mr. Speaker, we have relaxed the processing requirement so

that we could increase the amount of fresh fish that would go into the

United States of America. We

also opened up the door for outside buyers to come into the Province.

In actual fact, in one of the meetings that I had with the 3PS

fishers, we were on the telephone with a buyer from the mainland, and that

door and that opportunity is still there, if they want to come into the

Province and purchase on the same playing field as Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Carbonear Harbour Grace.

MR. SLADE:

Mr. Speaker, that is

certainly not what the 3PS fish harvesters are telling me.

Mr.

Speaker, DFO has extended the 3PS fishery, during the spawning season, under

the guise of science. In one

week, one half million pounds of fish were taken, even though only 100 fish

were needed for the research purposes.

ask the minister: Does he agree with the harvesting of vast amounts of cod

when these fish are spawning; and, if not, has he made representation to

Ottawa on this matter?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. GRANTER:

Mr. Speaker, at the 3PS

groundfish advisory committee meetings that took place recently, we support,

as a government, maintaining a freeze on catching codfish in sensitive

areas; but, as a government that really believes in research, we believe

that some cod could be taken from sensitive areas for research purposes

only. Again, we stand firm on

that belief.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Trinity Bay de Verde.

MR. CROCKER:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, the minister committed to tabling a list of loans written off by

government's Business Development Corporation.

We want to know which loans and the amounts.

ask the minister: Will you table the list as you committed to do so in the

House yesterday?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Child, Youth and Family Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. S. COLLINS:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

After Question Period yesterday, I did ask officials to put that information

together. I am waiting to hear

back. Anything I can table, I

certainly will do in due course.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. George's Stephenville East.

MR. REID:

Mr. Speaker, the College

of the North Atlantic campus in Qatar has had two serious privacy breaches

in the span of two weeks in late 2011, which are just now coming to light.

The first breach saw information such as names, salaries, birthdates,

nationalities, and employee numbers exposed.

The information of hundreds of employees was revealed.

ask the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills: Why did this breach occur

and why did it take over a month to discover it?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Advanced Education and Skills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

certainly as a government take any breach very seriously, Mr. Speaker.

There is a protocol in place.

this particular case, the protocol was followed.

Incidents were reported and individuals contacted.

Mr. Speaker, we feel in this particular case that protocol did indeed

work.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

The

changes to blood collection announced today by Eastern Health came out of

the blue, demanding that nurses at St. Clare's Hospital add collecting blood

to their already overlong list of duties.

ask the Premier: Why is government allowing Eastern Health to put yet

another burden on top of already overworked nurses at St. Clare's?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

can assure the hon. Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi and all members of

this House that improving wait times and patient flow in our health care

facilities is a really high priority for us.

In fact, we have invested over $160 million over the last eight years

in wait-time initiatives.

The

process that is being referred to in the media and that the member is

raising today is not actually a new one.

In fact, nurses in the emergency department at the Health Sciences

Centre have been taking blood from patients for quite a number of years,

approximately a decade, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

would love the minister to explain to us how the wait times are going to be

helped by nurses who are already overworked in the ER having extra duties

put on them. Let him explain

that one. That is a beaut.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

would like to say I am surprised by the hostility, but I cannot say that

and she continues to yell at me, Mr. Speaker, as you can hear.

The

emergency department at St. Clare's has recently been renovated, and that is

going to lead to some improvements in process.

We have spent about $4.1 million to improve patient flow and to

address wait times. Eastern

Health is continuing to move forward with a number of operational

improvement initiatives that will improve patient flow, not only making life

better for patients but making life better for our nurses, which is

incredibly important as well, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL:

Mr. Speaker, it is too

bad the minister does not know the difference between hostility and pure

shock.

would like him now to tell us: Will he bring into this House the evidence

that this is going to work at St. Clare's Hospital, both for the nurses and

for patients?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, our

experience over the last decade at the Health Sciences Centre has shown us

that these kinds of process improvements can work and can achieve

efficiencies in the health care system.

We are constantly challenged to look at how we are doing business and

to figure out ways to improve service quality while also reducing costs.

That is not an easy thing to do, Mr. Speaker, but it is something

that this government, under the leadership of our Premier, is quite

committed to doing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, government's

Blue Book promised a homeownership assistance program for working families.

The Premier's mandate letter instructed the minister to do the same.

ask the minister: It has been four years, where is this program that was

promised to working families?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister

Responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador Housing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN:

Mr. Speaker, the issue of

housing is one that we as a government have certainly been dealing with

through Newfoundland and Labrador Housing.

We have offered many, many supports.

One

of the things that we have looked at, Mr. Speaker, to support families is

one, what is called a portable subsidy.

Now, Mr. Speaker, there were calls for this and we have run a pilot

project around that, and I am pleased to report that we are having success

with it. That with all of the

other programs that are offered through Newfoundland and Labrador Housing,

Mr. Speaker, we are supporting families and we will continue to support

families.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, it is good to hear about the portable subsidies.

It is something that we have been asking for.

We know that seniors' housing is a number one concern for many

seniors, especially so that they can live close to family, friends and

services.

Will

this pilot project be extended to be a permanent project of portable

subsidies for seniors?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister

Responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador Housing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN:

Mr. Speaker, at this

particular point it is still a pilot project.

We will carry out further work related to that and we will do an

assessment afterwards.

reiterate, the supports that we have in place are working, Mr. Speaker.

We will continue to assess.

As I said, once we finish with further work on the pilot, we will

make some decisions around that then.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre has time for a very quick question.

MS ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, what is he

going to do to address the affordable housing needs of seniors in rural

communities?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister

Responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador Housing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN:

Mr. Speaker, I want to

inform the hon. member, our programs that are in place are not only for

urban centres. Many of us who

are rural MHAs know the work that is carried out through Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing and through our department.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN:

Maybe she needs to get a

little bit educated as to what is happening out in rural Newfoundland around

housing, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

time for Question Period has expired.

The

hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Yes, Mr. Speaker,

during Question Period in response to my questions the Minister of Health

clearly referred and read from a document.

I would ask if he would be so kind as to go ahead and table that

document.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

Speaker was watching the minister.

I could not tell if the minister was reading directly from it.

I know the minister was referring to a document.

will leave it to the minister's honour.

If he read directly from the document, then I would ask him to table

it.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal and Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Mr. Speaker, I give

notice under Standing Order 11, I shall move that this House not adjourn on

5:30 p.m. on Thursday, March 26, 2015.

Further, I give notice under Standing Order 11, I shall move that this House

not adjourn at 10:00 p.m. on Thursday, March 26, 2015.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further notices of

motion?

Answers to Questions for which Notices has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS many parents have expressed concern about the impact of overcrowding

at Beachy Cove Elementary on the students' mental and physical well-being;

and

WHEREAS many parents have questioned the impact of major space restrictions

at Beachy Cove Elementary and the ability of the school to continue

delivering quality curriculum to their growing student population; and

timelines to plan, tender, and construct the approved intermediate (grade

5-9) school in Portugal Cove-St. Phillips;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to provide all necessary resources in

Budget 2015 and beyond to have the Portugal Cove-St. Phillips intermediate

(grade 5-9) school constructed, commissioned, and operational for students

in September 2016.

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, I have about fifty or sixty signatures here from residents of

Portugal Cove and St. Phillips on this petition regarding the construction

of the intermediate or middle school, whatever you want to call it, out in

Portugal Cove-St. Phillips. It

is a school that has been promised now for quite some time, about four years

I guess.

know Beachy Cove Elementary is seriously overcrowded.

There is no question about that.

They are using the cafeteria there for a classroom.

Kids do not know what it is like to go to the cafeteria for lunch.

A lot of parents feel it is unsanitary to have so many kids in that

small of a space.

think the question that keeps coming up over and over again when I talk to

parents out in the area is: When is the tender going to be issued for this

school? When is the government

going to issue the tender for this?

Because they keep being promised over and over again.

They keep being sent mixed messages as well.

The

Minister of Transportation and Works had said that these schools are built

in four stages. We are at stage

whatever it is. Then another

school that was being constructed: oh, they did all the stages at once.

So it is sort of like one answer has to do with one school and one

answer to do with the other.

This

government has promised, I believe it is six new schools are going to open

in September 2016. I think that

is a tall order to live up to.

They all keep making assurances.

heard the Member for Cape St. Francis say: Well, I do not know about the

other schools, but this one is going to open.

I heard the Minister of Transportation and Works say: I do not know

about the other schools, but this one is going to open.

That is the sort of thing we are hearing.

None of them seem to know about any of the other schools but they are

certain that their own school in their own districts are going to open.

You really have to question whether or not that is the case.

cannot continue to have the sort of overcrowding we have at Beachy Cove.

We need a solution. I

suggest that the Minister of Transportation and Works get to work and issue

the tender for the construction of this new school.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Orders of the Day

Private Members'

Day

MR. SPEAKER:

This being Wednesday,

Private Members' Day, it is only about ten seconds before 3:00 p.m.

now go to the Member for Trinity Bay de Verde to begin debate on his

private member's motion.

MR. KENT:

A point of order, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services on a point of order.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, I will be

very brief because I realize it is Private Members' Day and I do not want to

take away from the member's time.

Following the request to table the document, the Opposition House Leader, I

heard him saying if you leave it to their honour, they will never table it

which I suspect you may have heard as well, Mr. Speaker.

He said table the document, to me; you should not have been given the

choice.

Mr.

Speaker, immediately upon your direction, I provided the document to the

Page. She made a copy of it for

my records, which I have, and the original document has been provided with

the Clerk. So, I find the

member's comments offensive and inappropriate, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

Speaker did not hear the exchange between the two hon. members, but I will

undertake to have a review of the tape to see and make a decision later.

The

hon. the Member for Trinity Bay de Verde, to begin debate on this private

member's motion.

MR. CROCKER:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am

pleased to stand in my place this afternoon and open debate on the following

private member's resolution:

IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly urges government to immediately

consider terminating compensation for Parliamentary Secretaries.

Mr.

Speaker, let us be crystal clear on one point as we begin debate on this

resolution this afternoon, we are not calling upon government to eliminate

Parliamentary Secretaries. In

light of our current financial situation, we are urging government to

immediately terminate compensation for Parliamentary Secretaries.

Other than that, that they are reimbursed for the expenses they incur

in their role.

Mr.

Speaker, the Premier needs to show financial prudence.

The Premier did the following in reaction to the financial situation

of the Province: The Premier reduced the size of the Cabinet.

He did so on March 12 and reduced his Cabinet by three, as we were

advocating for and called for back in January.

At the same time, the Premier had the opportunity to end compensation

for Parliamentary Secretaries.

The

Premier has given direction to the Speaker to look at reform in the House of

Assembly. He has asked the

Speaker to convene a meeting of the management committee to request that a

members' compensation review committee be put in place to review the MHAs'

pension plan. He has asked the

Speaker to convene a meeting of the Standing Orders Committee of the House

of Assembly to complete an analysis of all the orders with a view to

modernize the procedures and make the House of Assembly proceedings more

efficient and to provide greater involvement for all MHAs in the legislative

process.

Cutting payment for Parliamentary Secretaries is something that they can do

now right now. That will

immediately affect the bottom line; it will save taxpayers $135,000 a year.

That is over $500,000 in a four-year period, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretaries and Assistants could have continued

to do their duties, as given to them by the minister, without the pay.

That is how it happens in other provinces, like Nova Scotia where

MHAs or MLAs actually assist without being legislatively recognized or paid.

had a Cabinet minister put up his hand and remove himself from Cabinet.

Did the Premier go the extra step and ask the Parliamentary

Secretaries if they were willing to do the same?

the Premier and this government were truly serious about saving money,

government would have shown fiscal prudence and have been a leader for the

rest of the Province. Cutting

the Parliamentary Secretaries and Assistants' pay would have been an example

of that.

Since January, we have been advocating to the Premier to reduce his Cabinet

size and to stop paying his Parliamentary Secretaries.

He has half the job done.

No other Atlantic Province has paid Parliamentary Secretaries and

Assistants, and their government is working fine.

The

Premier has said on many occasions in this House that everything is on the

table. Well, why is it, Mr.

Speaker, that Parliamentary Secretaries and Assistants' compensation is not

on the table? This government

finds itself in a dire financial situation and blames it on low oil prices.

Contrary to what this government is trying to convince the public,

the financial crisis is not all about the drop in oil prices.

Remember, this government had projected a deficit of $538 million for this

fiscal year when oil was trading at $105 a barrel.

Government needs to accept responsibility for the financial situation

in this Province. Twenty billion

dollars in oil revenues have come into this Province over the last ten

years. The truth is, Mr.

Speaker, they blew the chance to set aside a rainy-day fund.

They failed miserably to grow and diversify our economy.

When you look at the record, you will this government had one great

skill: They were masters of illusion, masters of creating the illusion of

success because what the real record shows is a sorry, if not tragic, legacy

of lost opportunities.

Whether or not other paid positions within the Legislature such as House

Leaders, Deputy House Leaders, Opposition House Leaders, Whips, Caucus

Chairs, the people who serve on the Public Accounts Committee should be

compensated is a matter to be decided by the Management Commission or an

independent committee to be appointed by the Management Commission following

the next general election. This

is not relevant to today's discussion about Parliamentary Secretaries and

Assistants.

Parliamentary Secretaries are important to a smooth operation of government

and is a great training ground for future Cabinet ministers, but the

positions need not be compensated at a time of fiscal restraint.

Of course they should be reimbursed for out-of-pocked expenses

incurred doing their jobs as Parliamentary Secretaries and Assistants.

Mr.

Speaker, the role of the Parliamentary Secretary leaves a couple of

questions to be answered. In the

absence of ministers, why isn't it that a Parliamentary Secretary does not

answer questions on behalf of the minister's department?

That is what happens in many other parliamentary systems.

The role is to assist the minister.

Why,

Mr. Speaker, was there no mandate letters for the Parliamentary Secretaries,

not even an honourable mention in the minister's mandate letters of

Parliamentary Secretaries? How

is it determined which department and ministers get a Parliamentary

Secretary or Assistant? It seems

to be all over the place to me: Education and Early Childhood Development;

Forestry and Agrifoods; Health and Community Services; and Business,

Tourism, Culture and Rural Development.

The not-so-lucky departments: Finance, Treasury Board, big

departments; the Department of Advanced Education and Skills; the Department

of Natural Resources; some of the larger departments in government.

Mr.

Speaker, if you take some time to look at their webpages and the contact

list for the minister's offices the contact list for the Minister of

Health and Community Services is very easily found on the minister's

website. Just click on contacts.

The executive support and service in the Minister of Health and

Community Service's office, we have the minister; we have the executive

assistant to the minister; we have the deputy minister; we have the

associate deputy minister; we have the assistant deputy minister of

corporate services; we have the assistant deputy minister of professional

services; we have the assistant deputy minister of regional services; we

have the assistant deputy minister of policy and planning; we have the

assistant deputy minister of population health; and we have the ministerial

liaison. There is no

Parliamentary Secretary listed on the Minister of Health and Community

Services' website.

The

contact page click on contact.

I have just listed maybe a dozen positions in the minister's office, Mr.

Speaker, and not one reference to who is the minister's Parliamentary

Secretary.

Mr. Speaker, let us look at our neighbours in the other

Atlantic Provinces. Newfoundland

and Labrador is the only Atlantic Province with paid Parliamentary

Secretaries and Assistants.

There are Cabinets that are larger and smaller than us.

The range is from eight to fifteen, including the Premier.

They manage their affairs in their province without paid

Parliamentary Secretaries. The

Premier in other provinces takes on much larger portfolios than our current

Premier. Maybe he could assume

some of the duties to help out his ministers with larger portfolios.

Let us look at the responsibilities in other provinces.

In the Province of New Brunswick, the Premier's responsibility:

President of the Executive Council; Chair of the New Brunswick Jobs Board;

Minister Responsible for Innovation; Minister Responsible for

Intergovernmental Affairs; Minister Responsible for Women's Equality;

Minister Responsible for Rural Affairs; Minister Responsible for the

Premier's Council on the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

The size of Cabinet in New Brunswick, including the Premier:

thirteen; Parliamentary Secretaries and Assistants: zero.

Nova Scotia, Mr. Speaker, the Premier's

responsibilities: President of the Executive Council; Minister of

Intergovernmental Affairs; Minister of Planning and Priorities; Minister of

Aboriginal Affairs; Minister Responsible for Military Relations.

Size of Cabinet, including the Premier: fifteen; Parliamentary

Secretaries and Assistants: zero.

Prince Edward Island, Mr. Speaker, obviously a much

smaller province, but the Premier's responsibilities: Minister of Finance

and Energy; President of Executive Council; Minister Responsible for

Intergovernmental Affairs; Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs;

Minister Responsible for Acadian and Francophone Affairs.

Size of Cabinet, including the Premier: eight; Parliamentary

Secretaries: zero.

Now we are home, the great Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador, Mr. Speaker. Premier's

responsibilities: President of the Executive Council.

Size of Cabinet, including Premier: fourteen; paid Parliamentary

Secretaries and Assistants: five.

Mr. Speaker, we are not questioning the role of the

Parliamentary Secretary or the Parliamentary Assistant.

Seven current Cabinet ministers were Parliamentary Secretaries at one

point: the Member for Trinity North; Burin Placentia West; Grand Bank; The

Isles of Notre Dame; Ferryland; Terra Nova; Humber West.

I am sure all those ministers gained very important experience before

becoming Cabinet ministers. It

is interesting to note, Mr. Speaker, that must people in our Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador do not get paid for on-the-job training.

I thank you for the opportunity to open the debate on

this motion here today. I look

forward to hearing from members from the government side and the Third Party

with their positions on today's debate.

I hope that all hon. members support the taxpayers of our Province.

This government can immediately save the taxpayers of our Province

$500,000 over the next four years.

This is no small chunk of change.

We all know the work being done by Parliamentary Secretaries is

valuable. No one on this side of

the House is questioning that, Mr. Speaker.

We are questioning the government's commitment to addressing the

immediate financial situation of this Province.

It is what the current Minister of Finance has called

an economic crisis. This leads

us to think that action must be taken immediately to correct this situation,

and we must begin here in our own house, Mr. Speaker.

We have been advocating for this since January.

Parliamentary Secretaries should not be paid in these uncertain

financial times.

No one is saying the Parliamentary Secretaries and

Assistants should not keep doing what they are doing helping out their

ministers, no one is saying that they should not be reimbursed for the cost

incurred on the job, we are saying Parliamentary Secretaries, again, is a

great ground for training financial future Cabinet ministers.

Again, they are getting paid for on-the-job training.

What we are saying is it is time for this government

who got us into this mess they have the responsibility to get us out.

For that reason, they are to lead by example, Mr. Speaker.

It is time to stop paying Parliamentary Secretaries and Assistants

immediately.

Thank you for the opportunity, Mr. Speaker, and I look

forward to hearing from other members on this important motion.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is indeed a pleasure to get up here again today.

Like I always say, and I say it when I get up, the same thing, it is

a pleasure to be here to represent the beautiful District of Cape St.

Francis and the people of Cape St. Francis.

Mr. Speaker, this is an important day.

This is a day when members get a chance to put forth motions to the

House of Assembly. It is

important that we, as private members, as backbenchers, or MHAs on the other

side, that we get to bring something forward that is very important to this

House of Assembly. It is a

motion that is brought forward.

There is debate on both sides.

Just recently, there was an occasion where there was a

motion brought forward by the member of the Third Party that I felt very

proud to be part of the motion.

I think a lot of people in the Province really felt that it was a great

motion. It was nice to see the

support from both sides of the House.

It was a motion on mental health and setting up an all-party

committee, which was very important to people with mental health issues and

very important to everyone in the whole Province.

Just last week, our private member's motion was about

the fishery, what we did with the shrimp fishery and how we protected

fishermen in the Province. I

think it was a general consensus here.

It was an important motion.

It was important to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The fishery is a very important part of all more so in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador. I

spoke yesterday a little bit about the fishery.

I have an involvement in the fishery.

I listened intently to the motion, but today's motion

is a little different. I think

it a bit political to me, the way this motion came in today.

I feel a little bit uncomfortable because I think as most

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and I look at politicians.

I always remember my father.

Do not take this the wrong way, people at home, but I figure that

politicians sometimes get the bad rap.

They get a rap there that they are crooked.

They are this, that, and everything else.

Sometimes there is a bad play for politicians, but I always used to

say there was no crooked politician.

My father was always an honest man, and that is the way I always want

to see it. I think that is the

way most of us are in here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. K. PARSONS:

When we get up today and debate I am just going to do this a little bit at

the beginning because I am not going to talk about it.

I feel uncomfortable about debating whether I am going to be paid or

not paid. I do not think the

people in this House of Assembly should decide salaries, should decide what

we get in compensation, our pensions or anything else.

I feel, as a Parliamentary Secretary I am very proud,

actually, to be a Parliamentary Secretary because like anybody in anything,

you strive to get a little better and little better in whatever you do.

Someday, I do not know if I will be a minister or not but if I do, it

will be a great day for me. A

Parliamentary Secretary is a stepping ground for that.

Just like the hon. member mentioned, I think he said

there were seven, but in actual fact there was more than that because I

think the Member for St. John's West was also a Parliamentary Secretary.

I think the Member for Gander was also a Parliamentary Secretary.

AN HON. MEMBER:

(Inaudible).

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay, I just wanted to let them know.

My good colleague right here, he is after going right

around the whole loop. He was

Parliamentary Secretary, then he was minister, and now he is Parliamentary

Secretary again. Do you know

something, Mr. Speaker? I feel

very proud to sit on side of this man because the experience that he gives

me, we talk a lot, and that is what it is all about.

A Parliamentary Secretary is an experience, like

working in the department listen, my background is not in an office.

My background is out working.

I never, ever thought I would be in an office to tell you the truth,

Mr. Speaker. I enjoyed what I

did all of my life, but I really do enjoy being an MHA.

I really do enjoy

representing the people

of my district, the District of Cape St. Francis, and I take pride in that.

know across the way, I am not sure if the member was ever a Parliamentary

Secretary. I know he had an

opportunity to serve in government from St. John's South.

AN HON. MEMBER: ( Inaudible)

MR. K. PARSONS:

You were?

No, okay, but I think one of the other members over there had the

opportunity to be Parliamentary Secretary.

It is a job that you take great pride in.

I am after going to a good few functions now representing the

minister. When you go in and you

are representing a Minister of the Crown, it is great pride for you to stand

up there, whether you are making an announcement or whatever you are doing.

You really feel proud, and it is not that you are representing the

minister or anything else but it is a nice responsibility.

It a nice responsibility to have.

Mr.

Speaker, I did not think I would get into it this long.

When the review came for the Members' Compensation Review Committee,

and the first time I was elected, I had the opportunity in 2009 actually,

the chairperson of that review committee at the time was the Member for

Virginia Waters. She was on the

review committee.

just went through it today. It

is a review of MHA salaries, allowances, severance payments, and pensions.

In all that review look, there is the whole review right there.

I am sure you guys have it anyway.

There is not one mention and she was the chairperson at the time

of Parliamentary Secretaries.

Whether their job should be cut or they were getting paid too much or

getting paid too less or whatever, but that is where this should be done.

It should be done in a committee other than the people in here.

I do

not feel comfortable listen, it is like you have a job.

The job you have, if I am driving a truck or I am working at the

hospital or I am working, I should not be able to go in and tell somebody

what I am going to be paid or not paid for.

There are people there, that is the job.

It is this House, it could be the Management Commission, or I would

suggest it would be under review in this.

That you review it, and whether you get paid or you do not get paid,

to me, as Parliamentary Secretary, I really do appreciate the job and the

title that I am doing, but it is not for me to decide whether I get paid for

it or not. I think it is someone

else.

think of all the things that we have to debate in this House, there are

things out there we could be debating education.

We could be debating health care.

We could be debating municipal affairs.

There are different portfolios all over this that we can debate but I

really do not like I said, I am going to talk a little bit later on about

Parliamentary Secretary positions.

really do not think the people of Newfoundland and Labrador believe we

should be in talking about what we are compensated for or not compensated

for, whether we should get paid a certain amount of salary or we should not

get paid a certain amount of salary, or we should get this for our pension.

It should be someone else.

We should not be the ones to decide whether we are paid or not paid.

That should be outside of government.

That is just my belief and I think that is where it should be.

have to applaud our Premier. Our

Premier has done a great job since he came in.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. K. PARSONS:

The review of what

size government is going to be and it is going to be reduced down to forty

seats. I believe that is a great

thing, but I cannot, as in here, vote whether my district is going to be

cut, or my district is going to be increased, or whatever.

I think that is the job of an independent committee, a committee set

up by government to decide that.

That

is similar to what we are debating here today.

This is not the place to debate whether I get paid or not get paid.

Somebody else should decide that, not me.

That is where I am with this today.

As a

Parliamentary Secretary, again I look at people who were Parliamentary

Secretaries for years gone by.

It blows me away when you look at Pierre Trudeau, Jean Chrtien and some

people like this. I am in that

esteem, I do not know if I ever thought I would be a Parliamentary Secretary

like those guys, or even like my hon. member here on the side of me for

Harbour Main. It is great to be

put in that category.

You

know, I look at some of the jobs.

I work with a great minister.

He has a lot of portfolios to do.

I tell him, let me know, whatever it is you need me to do, whatever

you want me to go to. I sit in on a

lot of meetings, whenever I am available or whatever I can do to help him

out.

Just

to give you an example now of what this minister does and I laughed at him

with the last shuffle because I said boy, you have a lot on your plate.

He is the type of minister who likes to get out and go to districts

and get in with the people, whether it is an announcement down in Harbour

Breton, or whether it is an announcement on the Northern Peninsula, or it is

an announcement in Labrador, whatever.

It seems like he gets all around.

is the Minister of the Department of Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural

Development. He is also the

Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

He is also the Minister Responsible for Fire and Emergency Services.

He is also the House Leader in here.

I look at some of the work that these ministers do, and I have to

applaud you. It is unbelievable

the amount of work you do.

speak to my colleagues all the time and I know they are here and they are

not complaining. I am not saying

anybody is complaining. They are

here until 11:00 or 12:00 in the night getting budgets ready and everything

else, and working for the departments.

I can honestly say, I am very proud to be involved.

know my minister, I know what he does.

I call him my minister. I

am Parliamentary Secretary with him so I call him my minister.

I know how hard he works.

My job as Parliamentary Secretary is to assist him in any way that I can,

whether it is to go to a speaking engagement, or sit in on meetings.

He cut off a couple of little things in the department that he wants

me to be in control of. Whatever

it is, I gladly want to do it.

discuss whether I should be paid for it or not paid for it, I do not think

that is my responsibility to do it.

I will tell you one thing, I am very proud to be in this House of

Assembly. I am very proud to be

an MHA.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. K. PARSONS:

Whether the salary is

this or the salary is that, it gives me great pride to be whatever it is.

have to say, I really believe we could be discussing a whole lot more

important things on a private members' day, than how much we get paid or we

do not get paid. I think you are

playing a little bit of politics with it, and that is it.

If that is the way you want to be so be it, but I believe that like

I mentioned earlier with the hon. Member for St. John's Centre when she got

up and gave her motion on mental health, and we had people here that day.

We all decided in this House that day, yes, we are going to support

this. This is a very important

motion. I think that is where we

have to be.

The

same thing when we did the fishery.

The fishery is very important.

We wanted to make sure that our inshore sector and our offshore

sector were treated fairly. We

did not want to pit one against the other, but we did not want people just

saying, okay, you are out of the fishery.

We wanted it done so that it was fair to all fishermen, whether it is

inshore or offshore fishermen.

That is what was debated here, and I think it was a great debate.

debate whether I get paid for something or I do not get paid for something,

I do not feel comfortable with that at all.

I feel comfortable about being a Parliamentary Secretary.

I feel comfortable about being an MHA, but when it comes to deciding

whether I get paid for something or do not get paid for it, that should

never be my choice. There should

be an independent committee set up and whatever and there is.

There is an independent committee here that reviews everything.

It is supposed to review everything here.

The Chairperson in 2009 was the Member for Virginia Waters.

I believe that is where that is done.

can talk about everything, and I know the member talked about different

things here. The Premier also

stated he is going to review everything that is on the go here in the House

of Assembly, and so it should be.

Because we are here and there are all kinds of different we are in

a fiscal time in our history where we really have to watch it.

It is like all of us say, it is like your own household.

You have to always be cognizant of what money you have coming in and

what money you have going out.

My father always used to say you cannot spend $500 if you are only making

$400. So, that is where we have

to be today.

have to be fiscally responsible.

I am sure when the Premier says that everything is on the table, everything

is on the table. We should have

everything on the table, but we have to be responsible.

It is not our decision.

It should not be our decision to decide who gets paid and who does not get

paid in here. It has to be an

independent, like is already set up here, that it is an independent person

to decide whether I get paid for a Parliamentary Secretary.

Because I take great pride like I told you, it is a fantastic job.

look across the front row here and nearly every minister I think there are

only two ministers here in government, maybe three, who were not

Parliamentary Secretaries.

Obviously, it is a good stepping stone to be a minister down the road, if

that is what you want to be.

First and foremost, I want to be an MHA.

I want to represent the District of Cape St. Francis and I want to

represent the people that I do.

Whatever happens to me in politics, whether it is a Parliamentary Secretary

or minister, first and foremost, I want to be an MHA because I really enjoy

doing what I am doing.

I am

getting down to the last little bit now on this, what we are talking about

here today. Again, I believe

that the people in Newfoundland and Labrador do not want us in here debating

our salaries or debating whether we are going to get paid or not paid.

I think that is an arm that should be outside what is in here, and it

should be done through whether it is the review committee or the House of

Assembly when you look at the Management Commission, they are going to

decide I guess whether the Whips in here get paid.

We have Whips in the Third Party I know the House Leaders and the

Deputy House Leader on this side does not get paid because they are

ministers. They do a lot of

work. I know there is a House

Leader and a Deputy House Leader and another House Leader over there on the

other side and they do get paid but, apparently, that is all going to be

looked at, and so it should be.

should be done I should not do it, but there should be someone independent

to do it. This motion today, it

is shameful that we are in here debating whether we get paid ourselves or

not. It is very, very shameful.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Member for St. John's North, standing on a point of order.

MR. KIRBY:

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I did

not want to interrupt the member while he was speaking.

He said that the Member for Virginia Waters was the Chair of the

Members' Compensation Review Committee.

She was a member. She was

not the Chair. Also,

Parliamentary Secretaries' compensation and Cabinet ministers' compensation

was not in the mandate of that committee.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

There is no point of order.

Further speakers?

The

hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. HILLIER:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

is my honour to stand and speak on behalf of this private member's

resolution this afternoon.

Before I move on, I would just like to comment on the speaker who just

finished. He talks about not

wanting to have his pay decided in here.

He said we do not think that we should be discussing it in here.

Maybe we should not.

There is no mention of Parliamentary Secretary in that report, Mr. Speaker.

The reason being he was very nice to his Cabinet colleagues over

there because they are, in fact, the ones who decide what Parliamentary

Secretaries get paid. It is a

decision of Cabinet as to how much you get paid, not this House.

Mr.

Speaker, this is an issue that we have brought forward on any number of

occasions in Question Period. It

is a pleasure at this point in time to finally get it to the floor of the

House and take some time to debate it.

Parliamentary Secretaries come from the Parliamentary Secretaries Act.

I will just look at a couple of points here, In this Act

'parliamentary secretary' means a parliamentary secretary to a minister of

the Crown. 3.

(1) The

Lieutenant-Governor in Council may appoint members of the House of Assembly

to be parliamentary secretaries.

(2) Not more than 4 parliamentary secretaries shall hold office at a time.

is interesting, Mr. Speaker, that just happens to be the number that we

need, the maximum number that we can have.

We work our way down through, A parliamentary secretary shall take

an oath or affirmation and so on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. HILLIER:

Down in

section 6 it

says, A parliamentary secretary shall be paid a salary at an annual rate to

be fixed by the Lieutenant-Governor in Council.

That is what I just referenced, the Cabinet, and that is what we are

debating here today, Mr. Speaker.

We are not debating whether or not these positions should be here or

should not be. We are debating

whether or not there should be remuneration for these positions.

While we reference Parliamentary Secretaries, Mr. Speaker, I just want it to

be let known that we are also referring to the Premier's Parliamentary

Assistant which is covered in a totally different act altogether, basically

called the Parliamentary Assistant Act.

So we are talking about five people, Mr. Speaker.

are basically talking about four Parliamentary Secretaries and one

Parliamentary Assistant at $27,036 apiece.

We have one in Education, a former teacher and a former Education

Minister. I am sure a great

resource to the Minister of Education.

Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural Development; the MHA for Cape

St. Francis spoke eloquently a few moments ago about his pleasure to be a

Parliamentary Secretary and the sum of things that he is involved.

Health and Community Services has the MHA for Baie Verte

Springdale.

Forestry and agrifoods, Mr. Speaker, has the MHA for Exploits.

There is no department of forestry and agrifoods so he goes wherever

the minister is responsible.

Last month, he was with the Department of Natural Resources.

This month, he is a $27,000 assistant to the Minister of Fisheries.

Mr.

Speaker, then there is the Parliamentary Secretary to the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, what do they do?

AN HON. MEMBER:

(Inaudible).

MR. HILLIER:

No, they do more than

that.

The

only place I could go looking for what these people do was to the

AN HON. MEMBER:

Mandates.

MR. HILLIER:

Certainly not the mandate

letter, but to the website of each department because when each of these

people go out to do something there is press release.

Like ourselves, if we are doing something good, we like the general

population to know. It is the

same on the other side, I am sure.

we go down through, Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned with Education, the

Parliamentary Secretary in Education is involved in literacy days, schools

functions, things that he did in his career and I am sure is very good at.

Forestry and agriculture, according to the website, the Parliamentary

Secretary has spent some time attending fur conferences and horticultural

conferences.

Health, Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary has addressed the School of

Pharmacy. He has attended

graduation ceremonies for Licensed Practical Nurses.

He has attended flag raising ceremonies for the Eating Disorder

Awareness Week. He has been the

Parliamentary Secretary to attend the Eating Disorder Foundation.

He has been to officially open the health care facility in Burin and

speak at the MUN School of Nursing.

That is the Parliamentary Secretary for Health.

A little bit of a social butterfly, but he is busy; there is no doubt

he is busy.

Then

we have the Parliamentary Secretary for Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural

Development. I do not know what

he does because basically their website is a mess.

I will ask you to pass that along to the minister when he gets back.

AN HON. MEMBER:

(Inaudible).

MR. HILLIER:

No, no, that is the only

source I had of finding anything, that is all.

I could not find anything on yours, so I will let you pass that

along.

noticed that Seniors, Wellness got their website straightened out last

month. Perhaps this one will be

up and running by the end of the year.

Then, Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Premier we see her

there pounding their hands and cheering on behalf of her leader.

She does occasional media appearances.

Mr.

Speaker, I do that for free. I

support my leader. I do media

appearances. I do that for free,

Mr. Speaker. I am not suggesting

that is does not been to be done.

It does, but I do it for free, as do many of my colleagues do it for

free.

Mr.

Speaker, one of the things we do not see, which was expected when these

positions were created and my colleague in his opening address referenced

it. We do not see these

Parliamentary Secretaries stepping up and answering questions.

saw questions asked this week, and because the minister is not here, some

alternate minister answers the question.

The Parliamentary Secretary is not stepping up and answering those

questions; which, if you go back to 1982 when these particular positions

were put in place, that was one of the things that was expected of them.

MS PERRY:

A point of order, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Member for Fortune Bay Cape La Hune on a point of order.

MS PERRY:

The member opposite just

referenced about doing On Point

without being paid. I have done

On Point , Mr. Speaker, pretty much since I have been here in 2007,

and it is not my fault I am appointed Parliamentary Secretary to the Premier

now.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

There is no point of order.

MS PERRY:

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. HILLIER:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

was a chance to get another sip of water, out of my own glass.

Mr.

Speaker, the Premier says that having cut Cabinet positions, he could not

cut Parliamentary Secretaries because of the increased workload.

Mr. Speaker, let's have a look.

The

Premier had a Parliamentary Assistant prior to the cutting of the Cabinet

positions. We will have a look

at the work that he does in a few moments.

His job has not increased since the Cabinet positions were cut, but

he still has his Parliamentary Assistant.

Not only does the Premier have a Parliamentary Assistant, the Premier

has a Deputy Premier who also has a Parliamentary Assistant.

Mr. Speaker, who does what?

I am

not suggesting there is not enough work around here for these Parliamentary

Secretaries to find a day's work.

Perhaps we should move one down to the Minister of Seniors and

Wellness. We just talked about

how long his portfolio is.

Perhaps the Minister of Business should have two, but for the Premier to

have a Deputy Premier and a Parliamentary Assistant, and the Deputy Premier

to have a Parliamentary Secretary, that is a lot of staff to be tied up for

two people whose jobs did not increase as the result of a Cabinet shuffle.

Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Natural Resources had one, and then he moved on.

I am sure it is probably lonesome in the department and having to

reorganize all the work and so on, but over on the other side the Minister

of Fisheries cannot wait. He is

not saying anything about it. He

is keeping his head down, but he just got a Parliamentary Secretary, a new

Parliamentary Secretary. Notice

he did not jump up and down and say, I just received a new Parliamentary

Secretary. No, Mr. Speaker.

He is sort of keeping his head down.

He is happy about it. He

is very excited about it, but he is not announcing it to anybody.

Mr.

Speaker, then there is the Minister of Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural

Development, the Minister of Justice and Public Safety, the Minister

Responsible for the Research and Development Corporation, the minister

responsible, and on and on and on.

No wonder, Mr. Speaker, he had to take a week in Denmark as a break.

Mr.

Speaker, he has been doing the same work

MR. DALLEY:

A point of order, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Minister of Natural Resources on a point of order.

MR. DALLEY:

The member just

referenced the Minister of Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural Development

is on a trip for a break. He is

not on a break, Mr. Speaker. He

is on government business.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

is indeed inappropriate to refer to the presence or absence of members in

the House.

The

hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. HILLIER:

I apologize, Mr. Speaker.

Obviously, we learn as we go, and that is something that I was not aware of.

I will certainly withdraw that statement.

the meantime, Mr. Speaker, this minister has been doing the same work since

last fall, when the Premier appointed Judy Manning to the Justice portfolio

and she could not sit in the House.

Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt that for some of these positions there

is no trouble to find a day's work but given these times of fiscal

restraint, we are asking that government consider cutting remuneration

positions to the tune of $135,000, plus support, plus expenses.

Mr.

Speaker, we can go back to other times and other places.

My colleague talked about other provinces and the fact that they do

not have Parliamentary Secretaries.

He also talked about the heavy loads that the premiers in those

provinces were carrying,

whereas our Premier, even despite his broad

shoulders, does not seem to be carrying the same load.

Mr.

Speaker, I have been trying to tie this to something I know.

One of the things I have tried to tie it to are the roles of

assistant principals in schools; trying to tie it to assistant principals in

schools. We know we have three

or four principals here who understand what assistant principals go through

and some of the work that they are responsible for.

Mr. Speaker, different principals share their load with

vice-principals a little bit differently.

School administration units are allocated based on half unit, one

unit, one-point-five units, three units for larger schools.

let's go back to the last Budget when allocations were reduced not for the

principals but for the vice-principals.

While bonuses were cut, work did not go away.

There was attendance, substitute teachers, student assistants,

discipline, all still had to be done.

knew an assistant principal whose first call for substitutes came at 6:00

a.m. She was flat out until she

hung up the phone at 8:00 p.m. that evening trying to get a student

assistant. She was cut, Mr.

Speaker, her bonus was cut back.

The same as we are talking about bonuses being cut back for Parliamentary

Secretaries. The work will stay

the same, as with assistant principals.

Mr.

Speaker, just allow me to summarize.

On March 13, the former Minister of Service NL told us that in

resigning from Cabinet he took one for the team.

Given the fiscal situation that this government has put us in, I ask

the five of you to take one for the team.

Given the fact that no other provinces in Atlantic Canada have paid

assistants, I ask the five of you to take one for the team.

you cut administrative bonuses without a subsequent reduction in work, if

you can cut guidance counsellor's bonuses, if you can cut learning resources

teachers with no subsequent reduction in work, then follow a real leader and

step up and take one for the team, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, I just wanted to conclude with a Cheers and Jeers from April 8

referring to Nalcor, but we can put pretty well any face in there.

It says the argument being made by government is everybody is capable

of doing more with less and that everyone should share the burden.

Even Crown corporations like Newfoundland and Labrador Housing are

getting in on that, facing a $10 million cut in budgets.

What

about the special child

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

remind the member his time has expired.

The

hon. the Minister of Child, Youth and Family Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. S. COLLINS:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

is indeed a pleasure to rise today to talk about something that I am very

familiar with. Unlike the two

previous speakers on the opposite side, I have been a Parliamentary

Secretary. I spent

two-and-a-half years in the Department of Health a department that is very

large and diverse, and the role that I had there was very wide and diverse.

I would like to go over a little bit of what a Parliamentary

Secretary does, to begin my chat, and then I will go into some other areas.

The

work of a department is very important and, of course, a minister,

particularly of a large department, as was the case where I was in the

Department of Health and Community Services, there is more work that can

even be done by one person in a lot of these places.

The

members talk about the executive staff, whether it be deputy ministers,

assistant deputy ministers. I

have seen first-hand the great work that has been done in these departments,

not only in the Department of Health and Community Services but throughout

government. As a Parliamentary

Secretary, I had a role to play as well within the department.

Some

smaller things, if you look at it, speaking at events; I used to speak at

quite a few events. Generally

that would be if the minister was in meetings or if the minister had other

functions to attend, I would take his or her place her place, in my case.

I would take her place and speak at events and represent the

department every opportunity I had.

I was very proud to do so, and it was an honour to do so.

Also, another more important role I guess not important, but it something

that is a little bit more tangible and hands-on.

I acted as a liaison between groups that dealt with the department.

So, for example, the seniors' advisory council, we would have

quarterly meetings. I would sit

in on those meetings. What I

heard, of course, I would bring back to the minister and I would bring to

executive in the department, and those things would be actioned.

Recommendations from groups such as that are used in the Budget

process and how we develop our way forward.

Again that position was very important, and I was able to do that in

the minister's absence.

Also, of course, as I said, attending functions there were a number of

times I remember we always like to get out and celebrate, whether it be in

the Department of Health, in particular, whether it be graduation to social

workers or nurses, those types of celebrations, young people who are moving into the profession.

Many times those functions would fall on the same day.

I would also attend one and the minister would attend another.

So,

there is a wide variety of tasks that we do.

Again, going back to more of the hands-on, tangible material, in

two-and-a-half years, I spent a good many days in the office in the

Department of Health and Community Services.

I did not have the opportunity to spend as much time in my district

as everyone would like to as an MHA.

There were a good many functions I missed in my district because I

had to attend the business in the department.

did that very happily, and it was an honour to do so, but I think people

have to get a full grasp of what a Parliamentary Secretary does, and as they

are utilized. Of course, I

cannot speak for the past twenty years, thirty year, whatever the case.

I can speak for what I am familiar with and for what I have seen, and

I have been involved with.

know the level of involvement by Parliamentary Secretaries is quite heavy,

and again, it is the role that you take on, with the understanding that you

will have more duties on top of your MHA's role.

You do not get paid as a minister but you get paid about half the

remuneration of the minister. I

would argue that I did my fair share of work.

I feel as though I earned my money.

the end of the day, it was not me who set my salary and that is something

that is very important. It was

not the previous Premier who put me in that role.

She did not set my salary.

It was set and it was set by a group outside of the political realm.

I am going back to my colleague when we are looking at making

decisions such as this, they probably should not be made on the floor of the

House of Assembly.

would like to talk a little bit more about some other things if I may, Mr.

Speaker. We have to be careful

not just to simply cut, cut, cut.

I find it rather ironic that members opposite, when we first talked

when our Premier came forward with a bold initiative to reducing the House

of Assembly and members in the House of Assembly, the members opposite

initially were all up in arms.

They came out against it and my goodness, we cannot do that.

Now

we did see a number of flip-flops throughout, but the fact remains they were

not all on side. As soon as they

heard the cuts, it raised their ire and they had comments to make around

that and that is fine. Now all

of a sudden it is a race to the bottom and we have to cut these.

think proper perspective is needed.

We have to give this careful consideration because again we have to

make sure that we are able to deliver the services in the most efficient

way. This is particularly

important now that the Premier has reduced Cabinet.

So what you have now is that the delegation of duties on ministers

obviously has risen.

For

myself who is the Minister of Child, Youth and Family Services, I now have

taken on the workers' compensation commission.

That is an additional duty.

I am not getting paid anything additional.

That

is something actually that was raised on an Open Line show I heard.

Somebody called in and said well the Premier is cutting all these

positions, but now the ministers who are taking extra duties, are they

getting paid more, are they getting paid double salary?

I can assure you that is absolutely not the case.

Ministers get paid a flat amount and that does not change whether you

take on fourteen portfolios or one.

It does not change. That

is also a very important thing to note.

point being with the extra duties that are up on ministers, I believe

Parliamentary Secretaries were justified months ago, but I truly believe

they are even more justified right now.

The work that goes in these departments now that they have a wider

umbrella of tasks and responsibilities is even more important.

always like talking about irony and I just mentioned something that was

ironic. Something else that is

very ironic, Mr. Speaker, is that we have not only the member mentioned we

have a number of members over here who have served in Parliamentary

Secretary positions and Parliamentary Assistant positions, myself being one

and there were a number of others.

said the last time when we were talking about the reduction of MHAs, before

you look outward, why don't you look inward?

So when we look across the way there are a number of members who

served in Parliamentary Secretary positions.

There are members who served in Parliamentary Assistant positions.

look at my colleague, the Member for Mount Pearl South, he was a

Parliamentary Secretary and I believe while he was there, he did a great

job. He was remunerated for it.

He accepted that. He not

only accepted the position but he accepted the pay for it, and that is fine

and it was completely justified.

Of course, that happened in a time when perhaps it was slightly a bit better

of a fiscal situation. The price

of oil is not where it is today, but that is fair.

also have a member across the way who was Parliamentary Assistant.

Mr. Speaker, I mean this with the greatest respect, he performed his

job and I am sure he performed it very well, but you have to look at the

context as well. When the Member

for Bay of Islands was Parliamentary Assistant to the Premier I believe it

was that was during a very different time as well.

This

was a time when the government of the day was rolling back negotiated

contracts with public servants.

When we saw wide-spread layoffs, thousands of people laid off.

Again, he took that position.

He was remunerated for it.

I am not saying that was a bad thing for him to do because I believe

he did a very good job while he was there, but the fact remains I bet if I

asked the Member for Bay of Islands to stand now and answer my question: Was

your role justified? Did you

perform a service that added value?

I bet he would stand to his feet and say absolutely, because I

believe he did.

MR. JOYCE:

(Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. S. COLLINS:

If I asked him to

stand and say he performed a role that was justified and added value to the

entire system, he would say it.

Now if I asked him a follow-up question and say: Did he receive remuneration

for the positon that he had during those fiscal times?

I am imagining he would stand and say he did.

Again, I do not begrudge him that because I think the service he

provided was a valuable one.

That

brings me right back to my point when I look over here and I look at my

member the members around when I look at my member; I should not have

repeated that. When I look at

the members around me who perform the role of Parliamentary Secretary, I

know they are adding value because not only do I look at the jobs they are

performing, but I also look at the value I added, or at least I believe I

added, while I was in the Department of Health and Community Services.

It was value added and that is why we have to be careful.

We,

as a government, our Premier, are very interested in delivering services

efficiently

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. S. COLLINS:

but we want to make sure we give them responsibility.

We want to make sure at the end of the day we are adding value.

I think this is where I end that.

the Member for Cape St. Francis had mentioned, and I have alluded to this a

little bit earlier, I truly do not believe this is a decision that should be

brought forward in this type of venue, if you will, during this type of day.

is interesting that he mentioned a couple of private members' motions that

have come forward most recently and the Member for St. John's Centre.

That was a perfect example, I think, of how this Legislature can

work. It added value, definitely

so. That was something we all

could discuss and something we could decide.

This, Mr. Speaker, I do not believe is one of those instances where we, one,

can decide; two, that we should decide.

He had talked about how this should be a decision made by an

independent group. Things have

changed in the last number of years, I refer to the previous Administration.

Since that time, and it is always progressing.

It is always developing as it should but things have changed here

with regard to our responsibilities, the expectations of the public.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. S. COLLINS:

I bet everybody here

is very familiar with the Green report and the transparency and taking I

guess if I could some power out of politician's hands where it should not

be and giving it to independent outside bodies so those decisions can be

made.

Another example of that, salaries for MHAs, benefits for MHAs, pensions for

MHAs. If we want those things

considered, we personally I do not want to decide on what my pension

should be or if it should be restructured or what that restructuring should

look like. I think we leave that with

an outside body, someone who is non-partisan, someone who sits on the

outside, who is independent.

Again, it is all about adding value, and I think that would add value.

It would take the politics out of it.

I think that is what we need to do here, is take the politics out of

this. We will leave it with an

outside independent group.

Again, which was mentioned even though she did not, the Member for

Virginia Waters, consider this piece, she sat on a board that was

independent and non-partisan that considered such matters.

think that is where we need to be.

It is somewhere that we have been in the last number of years and I

think that is a good thing, because we have seen in the past what happens

and the slippery slope when we start making decisions in here that perhaps

we should not be. We should not

be wading into that water, and I think this is one of those decisions.

can easily stand and, as I said, defend and talk about the work that

Parliamentary Secretaries do.

Again, it was a great training ground for me as minister.

It exposed me to a number of things that I would not see necessarily

as a backbencher. I think it

better positions you for when you move into the front row.

you look across the country, because the members are kind of stuck on the

Maritimes, which is ironic. They

always stick on an area or a piece of geography that fits their point, but

you know Canada is much bigger than the Maritimes, Mr. Speaker.

We look across all jurisdictions in the country, and there are

Parliamentary Secretaries, there are also junior ministers.

If you look at the model used in the federal government,

Parliamentary Secretaries can actually answer questions during Question

Period.

tell you the truth, Mr. Speaker if I can please speak over the Member for

CBS, if he would allow me. What

I would propose is we should be looking at perhaps making the roles of

Parliamentary Secretaries even more progressive.

That is where I would be, Mr. Speaker.

They perform a valuable task and perhaps they could provide a little

bit more of a valuable task that we can add.

It is all about adding value.

So if they can do that I would be more interested in having that

conversation as opposed to the remuneration piece.

I think that is where we need to be.

I think that is where we need to be, and some thought could perhaps

be given to that.

will not belabour this too much longer. I

only have a couple of minutes left.

My main point is, it is incumbent on us as government to make not

only the politically expedient decisions, and those are always people say,

well, if you make that decision that will affect the polls if you do this or

that but it cannot just be all about those types of decisions.

You have to make decisions that are responsible, and I think that is

something the government, it is incumbent on us to do.

cannot just make those decisions that some would say are easy decisions,

that are politically expedient, that will suit our purposes in the short

term. We have to make decisions

that obviously add value as I said, I am always going back to the point of

adding value and serve democracy.

really feel as though the value that the Parliamentary Secretary adds, it

certainly adds to the department.

It also adds to the access for outside groups being able to access

that department, because a minister is only one person.

So if you are able to have in larger departments, as we have said,

if you are able to have another person