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September 12, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-Sep-12 (PDF)

L057 - Thu 12 Sep 2013 / Jeu 12 sep 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 12 September 2013 Jeudi 12 septembre 2013

CORRECTION OF RECORD

ORDERS OF THE DAY

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

AMENDMENT ACT

(LEAVES TO HELP FAMILIES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES NORMES D’EMPLOI

(CONGÉS POUR AIDER LES FAMILLES)

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

PUBLIC TRANSIT

PUBLIC TRANSIT

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY

PUBLIC TRANSIT

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

CHILD CARE CENTRES

WORKPLACE SAFETY

TEACHERS’ COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

NUISANCE BEARS

MICROBREWERIES

PROVINCIAL PARKS

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

DEFERRED VOTES

FINANCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY

OFFICER ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LE DIRECTEUR

DE LA RESPONSABILITÉ FINANCIÈRE

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

WES FOR YOUTH ONLINE

TORONTO INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL

COPTIC COMMUNITY

NEW HAMBURG FALL FAIR

FAMILY AND CHILDREN’S SERVICES NIAGARA

TANYA KHAN

CULTURAL DIVERSITY

YOM KIPPUR

MCNAUGHTON’S

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TERRY FOX DAY ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA JOURNÉE

TERRY FOX

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ PUBLIC BUSINESS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

TORONTO INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL

PETITIONS

HOSPITAL PARKING FEES

FAMILY SAFETY

LYME DISEASE

LONG-TERM CARE

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

TAXATION

PROTECTION OF RESOURCES

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

REPLACEMENT WORKERS

PUBLIC TRANSIT

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

RADON AWARENESS

AND PREVENTION ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA SENSIBILISATION

AU RADON ET LA PROTECTION

CONTRE L’INFILTRATION DE CE GAZ

PSYCHOLOGICAL HEALTH

AND SAFETY

FAIRNESS IS A TWO-WAY STREET ACT (CONSTRUCTION LABOUR MOBILITY), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 PORTANT QUE LA JUSTICE N’EST PAS À SENS UNIQUE (MOBILITÉ DE LA MAIN-D’OEUVRE DANS L’INDUSTRIE DE LA CONSTRUCTION)

RADON AWARENESS

AND PREVENTION ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA SENSIBILISATION

AU RADON ET LA PROTECTION

CONTRE L’INFILTRATION DE CE GAZ

PSYCHOLOGICAL HEALTH

AND SAFETY

FAIRNESS IS A TWO-WAY STREET ACT (CONSTRUCTION LABOUR MOBILITY), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 PORTANT QUE LA JUSTICE N’EST PAS À SENS UNIQUE (MOBILITÉ DE LA MAIN-D’OEUVRE DANS L’INDUSTRIE DE LA CONSTRUCTION)

ORDERS OF THE DAY

WIRELESS SERVICES

AGREEMENTS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES CONVENTIONS

DE SERVICES SANS FIL

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

CORRECTION OF RECORD

Mr. Ted Arnott: Speaker, a point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): A point of order from the member from Wellington–Halton Hills.

Mr. Ted Arnott: Mr. Speaker, I rise to correct my record. On Monday, I indicated in a statement in the House that the setbacks for wind farms in the province of Ontario were 500 metres. In fact, upon reviewing my files, I find that there are 550 metres of setback—still insufficient, according to my constituents in Wellington–Halton Hills, and certainly I concur with them.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I thank the member for correcting his record on the detail. No other comment usually accompanies that correction. I appreciate that, and it is a point of order that a member can correct his or her own record.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

AMENDMENT ACT

(LEAVES TO HELP FAMILIES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES NORMES D’EMPLOI

(CONGÉS POUR AIDER LES FAMILLES)

Resuming the debate adjourned on September 11, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 21,

An Act to amend the Employment Standards Act, 2000 in respect of family caregiver, critically ill child care and crime-related child death or disappearance leaves of absence / Projet de loi 21, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2000 sur les normes d’emploi en ce qui concerne le congé familial pour les aidants naturels, le congé pour soins à un enfant gravement malade et le congé en cas de décès ou de disparition d’un enfant dans des circonstances criminelles.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mrs. Jane McKenna: I’m pleased to rise today to speak to Bill 21, the Employment Standards Amendment Act, 2013, which would provide leave of absence in respect of family caregivers, critically ill child care and crime-related child death or disappearance. We are supportive in principle of family leave for people who have these kinds of situations, but—and this is possibly a measure of the interesting and timely issues that the legislation taps into—my suspicion is that this bill will be strengthened considerably in committee before it comes back for third reading. That’s how legislative business ought to be.

We’ve had some finger-wagging from the Premier this week and some scolding about how the opposition had better fall in line or we’ll have to answer to the people of Ontario at the ballot box. The members of Her Majesty’s loyal opposition, like all members of this House, are enormously privileged to serve the people of Ontario. The job we have been sent here to do is to thoroughly weigh the legislation that will impact the lives of Ontarians today and far off into the future, to devote serious and sustained attention to the workings of government, and to call attention to the gap between words and deeds, between intention and action.

Here, I would like to formally welcome and congratulate the new members of the Legislature, who will have a very fresh sense of this incredible honour, Speaker. They are probably still adjusting to the gravity of this role and likely have a keen appreciation of the ability to serve that trust, one that allows them to stand in the Legislature and debate bills that will hopefully shape life in this province. That is all part of holding the government to account, and it should come as no surprise to anyone following the debate that government finds all of this to be a major irritation.

Then again, anyone who has followed the history of this government would know that after two terms of majority rule, the government looked on the input and concerns of members on this side of the House as little more than a technicality. It didn’t need our votes to pass legislation, so it didn’t need to engage in robust debate about matters of policy and legislation.

Again, anyone who follows the history of this government might imagine that events might have worked out differently if government had accepted that debate not only honours the democratic trust of constituents—debate that, by the way, is part of the conversation the government is constantly saying it looks forward to having—but if government is listening, this potentially improves the decision-making process, Speaker.

It should also be pointed out that we in the opposition are also prepared to work with government to forge non-partisan alliances—when I brought forward my first private member’s bill, for example, it had sponsors from the Liberals and the NDP—and to support legislation that serves the public interest.

Things are not as combative as some would have you believe. This week alone we’ve seen that critical debate go hand in hand with legislative support. We don’t simply have to choose between a rubber-stamp role and another round of Kool-Aid and Kumbaya. We can and should aspire to be more than that.

As we turn our attention to Bill 21, it is encouraging to see that progress is possible and that the government not only heard our constructive criticism and various concerns about early forms of this legislation, but took those things to heart. They actually listened to our concerns last session, went back to the legislation and made adjustments and improvements to it. Where the previous bill opened up inconsistencies between the late federal labour code and our provincial labour laws, this bill takes steps to work more simply and effectively within the existing legislative framework.

What does Bill 21 propose to do? It proposes several amendments to the Employment Standards Act that would echo similar changes that the federal government has made to the Canada Labour Code. The bill proposes to create family caregiver leave, up to eight unpaid weeks per calendar year, with respect to each family member set out in the legislation. In order for an employee to qualify for the leave, they must be caring for an individual whom physicians have found to have a critical injury or illness and, as such, cannot care for themselves.

This leave would come in addition to any entitlement to family medical leave, critically ill child care leave, crime-related child death or disappearance leave and personal emergency leave.

Bill 21 is a compassionate bill, but the fact that we are having this discussion is a symptom of a larger issue: a problem with the way our home care system is set up at this moment. What we’re looking at is unpaid leave for a family member to fill in the blanks that exist in a system that is in disrepair.

About 18 months ago, while Bill 30 was being debated, a memorable headline ran in the Hamilton Spectator. It read, “It May Be Easier to Get into a Cemetery than a Long-Term Care Bed.” The Hamilton Niagara Haldimand Brant LHIN had an overall wait time of 178 days for placement in a long-term-care home. That LHIN had the second-longest waits in the province when it came to moving patients from acute care hospital beds to long-term-care beds: 107 days, almost twice the provincial average.

Almost 40% of long-term-care residents in the Hamilton area LHIN reported increasing difficulty performing everyday tasks. It was the highest such rate in the province. That was shameful. That is the reality waiting for caregivers: unpaid leave, mounting expenses and little in the way of medical help or emotional support on the horizon.

As safety nets go, it’s not hard to imagine better coverage. A sizable portion of the Canadian workforce is living paycheque to paycheque. They cannot afford to miss a single week, let alone eight weeks. However compassionate the gesture contained in legislation like this, in the bigger picture, it seems rather thin. It begs the legitimate question: Are we really doing our best to address the issues in a sustainable and holistic way, or are we falling into the policy habit of band-aid solutions, and ineffective ones at that?

Just two days ago Statistics Canada’s Caregivers in Canada study revealed that last year about 8.1 million individuals—28% of Canadians age 15 and up, Speaker—provided care to a family member or friend with a long-term health condition, disability or age-related needs. Most often, these duties fell to those aged 45 to 64, and over a quarter of caregivers could be described as the sandwich generation, caring for elderly parents as well as looking after their own child’s welfare and education. On top of being stretched thin, only one in five caregivers receive financial support.

None of us can miss the trends that come along with an aging population. The government understands this well enough.

Various members opposite have, at one point or another, talked about the dignity of aging in place, of the importance of staying at home, and nobody with a heart beating could fault those goals. If it’s not obvious, let me say it for the record. Those are noble and worthwhile goals, ones that demand to be taken seriously. I’ll always say, as many before me have, that I wholeheartedly support the spirit that brought this legislation forward. I support this government’s intent to address this need, to close a gap that exists in our communities and to help the people of this great province.

There is no question, Speaker, that resolving that issue will do a lot of good. It is a positive step, no doubt. I’m happy to support and move it to committee where we can hopefully address the concerns that have been brought forward by all of us.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: It’s a pleasure to rise on the family caregiver leave act,

an act that we spoke at length about before the session adjourned for the summer, one that I think had broad consensus throughout the Legislature, one that I think has some glaring gaps in terms of its support—financial support specifically—for family members who do require a leave when another family member has been either diagnosed or is critically ill. It’s one that I think members have heard from their constituents throughout many facets, one that many of us maybe have experienced on a personal level. We all understand the important need to have that support mechanism in place for a family member.

In fact, I can tell you right now that my mother, who is not working any longer—she’s retired—has left the province to go and help her sister, my Aunt Patti. I’ll give a shout-out to my Aunt Patti. Love you, Aunt Patti, and miss you. Mom, can’t wait until you get home, and wish you well.

My Aunt Patti is going through treatment for cancer, and it’s our family that has surrounded my Aunt Patti to offer her and her family any assistance that’s required. If my mother had been working right now, that’s a scenario where the family caregiver leave act would come into play.

Now, could my mum afford to take that time off in an unpaid scenario? I don’t know. Thankfully, my mum and dad both had good-paying, unionized jobs that offered them support and benefits, but others in this province aren’t as fortunate. I wonder if the government actually understands that. Although this may be a step in the right direction, it certainly doesn’t go far enough to provide that assurance and real critical assistance that people need when helping out a family member.

So I applaud the government. We’re going to vote for this bill. I’m going to support this bill, but I’m going to continue to push for some measure of financial assistance for family members who do take

part in this program.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments? The Attorney General.

Hon. John Gerretsen: Thank you very much, Speaker. I listened with great interest to the member from Burlington on this issue. It sounds to me that they’re totally in favour. She even wanted the whole process to be speeded along so that the bill could go to committee. My suggestion is that we do that right away. We’ve had so many hours of debate on this. We all think it’s a great idea. There may be some minor issues that that will have to be worked out. There are many other issues that we could be talking about in this House; I think we all agree on that. So why don’t we just move it along?

Why don’t we not put up any more speakers on all sides, get the bill passed, get it to committee and have it reported from the committee back to the House so that it can be implemented as soon as possible, so that all the good things that we’ve said about the bill and all the good ways in which we can help the people of Ontario to get the kind of support that’s required in situations where family members do need the assistance of other family members under this particular act—so that that can happen as soon as possible?

I would hope that after this member has spoken, no other member will get up. We’ve had many, many hours of debate on it. Let’s get it to committee. Let’s get it going and stop playing games on all sides—on all sides. I’m not going to point any fingers at the other two parties. We all know that there are games being played here that have nothing to do with the basic substance of this bill, which is good for the people of Ontario, particularly for those people who need help and assistance from family members in time of need. Let’s get on with it.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: First of all, let’s pay tribute where it’s deserved. The member from Burlington, I think, gave a very fine speech and a very clear

interpretation of the advantages of the bill. It’s clear that we support the bill.

I’m a bit disappointed by the minister, the Attorney General for Ontario, who should know better, really. He’s really throwing a bit of a slam against the rights and responsibilities of members to stand for their constituents and give voice to the concerns that they’ve heard. I make this a real comment because the member from Essex is a perfect and recent example, when he stood up and talked about his Aunt Patti, and his mother taking time off out of her own personal life to take care of her sister, I gather. So let’s not trivialize this.

I think he also went on to make a very good point, as did the member from Burlington. This bill is really—it’s been said several times—a feel-good bill, but if you take the cover off the book and start looking at the detail, the story itself, there’s not five cents of money in it. For those families who are suffering from cancer or a child who may have been abducted or who knows what the purpose, to take time off work could possibly be a barrier for them. They may lose their job. I have a woman now who is complaining to me that she’s got to take time off for jury duty, and she’s living from hand to mouth and can’t do jury duty because she doesn’t get her pay-cheque.

So if you want to look at the bill, we support it. I think it should go to committee. There’s only been nine hours and 20 minutes of debate, and there are over 100 members in this House, most of whom want to speak, especially on our side. Tim Hudak, our leader, has encouraged us all to participate strongly, affirming our position on bills. In this case we’re affirming the support for the bill, and the member from Burlington did that very well, I thought.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: It’s a wonderful privilege to stand and debate this bill once again. As the member from across the way mentioned, we have to give this bill due process, like any other bill.

Let’s set the record straight: The only reason we started discussing this yesterday is because of the extensive work that the member from Nickel Belt had done on the tanning beds, and the discussion that happened here in this House yesterday. It freed up the opportunity and certain slots yesterday afternoon to have these discussions here today. This was nowhere on the radar or on the paper from this government. So let’s get that out of the way right now, and let’s talk about that for a bit.

The member from Durham had mentioned that this is a feel-good bill, and it is a feel-good bill. If you look at it, in essence what it was before and what it has come to is the family caregiver—and we’ve added a couple of media clips there where we have critically ill child care and crime-related child death and disappearance leave of absence. But essentially the bill has the same meat that’s within it, which was no meat. It’s a good announcement, which unfortunately, this Liberal government is known to do. It has little impact to assist anybody.

Some will benefit from it, but the individuals who are going to benefit from it are going to be minimal, because there was a lot of information, a lot of discussions that were held in this House yesterday in regard to how many individuals across this province are impacted by the loss of one pay, never mind a couple of pays in a given month.

I’m looking forward to this going to committee, and hopefully we can get some meat on the bones of this bil,l because it’s very lacking right now.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Burlington, you have two minutes for a response.

Mrs. Jane McKenna: Thank you, Speaker. We have all seen friends and colleagues who have faced immense personal challenges, undergone intense medical treatments or endured family tragedy. We all know the aches of having to be somewhere far from the side of a loved one in need. Bill 21 aims to address that, but it goes further than eight weeks of caregiver help. It would also provide unpaid job-protected leave for parents caring for a critically ill child, parents of a missing child and parents of a child who has died and where the disappearance or death is probably the result of a terrible crime.

Here again, Bill 21 dovetails with federal legislation. As of New Year’s Day 2013, the federal government began providing grants lasting 35 weeks for what is basically the equivalent of this bill’s proposed crime-related child death or disappearance leave. In June, the federal government began paying out benefits for the federal equivalent of the proposed critically ill child care leave. This is just another example of how constructive criticism and due consideration can improve the quality of the provincial government’s bills. Bill 21 improves on Bill 30. It can still be improved again.

Hopefully we can move this legislation forward and strengthen it in committee. At the same time, hopefully the government will give serious consideration to addressing shortcomings in the wider system that caregivers rely on.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

M me France Gélinas: I too would like to add a few words about the caregiver act. This is a bill that had been first introduced—it got reintroduced with some changes. The changes basically had to do with children and had to do with a critically ill child as well as children disappearing, which are situations that, I guess, don’t happen very often, but when it does happen, I can see why the parents would need to leave work.

In real life, when a child falls sick, when a child is picked up by an ambulance and rushed to Sick Kids or any other children’s hospital and the parents get that phone call that your child is now in the hospital, it doesn’t matter. I don’t know one employer who will say, “No, you have to finish your shift. You cannot go to the bedside of your child who is now critically sick”—as we say they have to be.

I can tell you of numerous examples where children were brought into the hospital. It didn’t matter if their dad was at the bottom of Creighton Mine, which is more than one mile down under the ground; they would go and get them. They would bring them up, and they would be with their child. To think that there are employers out there who would tell you, “No, you’ve got to finish your shift,” is to really think very little of Ontarians, isn’t it? Employers are human beings. Employers have children, too, and most of them recognize this.

To me, this bill will help very, very few people. Everything that has been said about the burden on caregivers, all of this is true. Everything that has been said about the aging population and people putting their shoulder to the wheel to make sure that they continue to live in our communities, they continue to be welcome in our families, in our communities—that great work happens because we have caregivers. It happens because we have men and women and daughters and brothers-in-law and everybody else who are happy to make sure that a frail elderly person or a sick child or a disabled adult is part of our community. This is what we do as Ontarians: We help each other out.

When that help demands a little bit too many hours, the number one reason why people cannot step up to the plate and continue to help their loved ones, their neighbours, their friends, is money. It doesn’t have to do with the Employment Standards Act, which is what we’re about to change. It has to do with money. It has to do with the fact that, if you have to take a week off without pay, you don’t get paid. And although we say that medicare is free—yes, hospital services and physician services are free, but everything else around medicare costs a lot of money.

If you are maintaining somebody who is frail or fragile or disabled or needs a caregiver, believe you me, Speaker, you have a list of expenses from my seat to yours, because drugs are not covered, bedding supplies are not covered, any kind of instruments that you need in the home are not covered, and all of this needs to come out of your pocket. And now we’re saying that you’re going to have to stay home without pay. Who can afford to do that?

So here we have a bill that has a pretty cool name. I like the name. It talks about an issue that is important; absolutely. Caregivers are very important, and we have to do more to support them. We have to do more to show our true colours, that we are a caring community, that we want people with needs, with disabilities, who are frail, to live in our communities, to be fully engaged, to participate, to allow us to share in their lives, to learn from them. We want all of this, but to have all of this sometimes needs a bit of cash, and this is where we’re short. We fall flat.

All that the bill is talking about is making sure that you can take a week off. Unfortunately, that is seldom the issue. If something big is coming that has to do with a serious medical illness, employers will realize that. If you have been looking after your mom or your mother-in-law or your aunt or your neighbours or your friends, your employer will know that. And if that person needs extra help, your employer will know that also, and chances are they will give you the time off. But the problem is, will you be able to afford to take the time off?

When the bill was first introduced, I had an issue with “serious medical,” because a serious illness has a definition within the medical world that does not include frailty, that does not include aging. Aging is not a disease, Mr. Speaker. Aging is a normal progression of life. But as we age, people get frail and they may be in need of caregivers but have no sickness whatsoever. They’re just old.

Age is not a disease. I know a perfectly healthy 92-year-old—happens to be my father-in-law—who has no disease whatsoever. Is he frail? Well, he’s 92 years old. I’m proud to say that he still has a driver’s licence, drives his car, does his business, handles his own affairs. But every now and again, does he need help? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Not because he’s sick; just because he is aged. He has had a good life, and I hope he still has many, many years. I’m betting right now that he makes it to 100, just to have it on the record. Eight years from now we’ll check if I’m right, but I’m going to buy my card right now, and I bet he makes it to 100.

The fact is that as he gets older, he gets frailer, which means that he may need a little bit of help, but he would not qualify for that because he’s not seriously ill. He’s just older. He doesn’t see as well. He doesn’t hear as well. He doesn’t move as well. He doesn’t walk as well. None of these are diseases and certainly none of these are serious diseases, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t need a little bit of caregiving every now and again. I’m more than willing to do this and everybody else in my family is more than willing to do this, and we will continue to do that. But that caregiver leave does not apply because he’s not seriously ill; he’s frail.

Yes, I want it to be on the record, not because I want to stall the bill, but because if we’re going to be doing this tiny step of saying that we will change the labour act so that if you go and help somebody for a week you won’t lose your job, then let’s make sure that we capture as many people as possible in there. Let’s make sure that we have a definition that is inclusive of frailty and that is inclusive of aging, which cannot be defined in the way it is defined now.

I cannot let this opportunity go by without talking about our seriously lacking home care, because with caregivers, there’s always a flipside to home care. I’d like to talk about—I’ll call him Mr. Goudreau from my riding. He’s 81 years old and looking after his wife that is seriously disabled, but this man will keep her at home until his last breath. All he wants is a little bit of help. You figure he could get this through home care. My God—all he wants is to be able to sleep at night.

Send him someone so that he can sleep at night, and he will continue to look after his very disabled wife for the rest of his or her life. We can’t even do this. Three nights a week, he gets somebody from midnight to 6 o’clock in the morning; the rest of the nights he’s up. An 81-year-old who can’t sleep has a hard time being a caregiver.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Steven Del Duca: It’s a pleasure for me to rise and speak at second reading to Bill 21. I listened with interest to the member from Nickel Belt and her very eloquent comments with respect to what she sees taking place in this legislation. I also heard the member from Burlington speak a bit earlier.

As the Attorney General said just a few minutes ago, I think that’s why it’s of extreme importance that we get this bill to committee as quickly as possible so that it can go through the further study and examination that it needs and it can come back here for third reading, because it is the right thing to do.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mrs. Julia Munro: I’m pleased to add a few comments on Bill 21. I think the whole premise of providing caregiver leave is based on some of the realities that families face today. In times past, people lived very often in the communities in which they were raised. They were there and they had a much closer network of family and extended family, and so people could be expected then to be able to provide a bit more opportunity to support those in their community, whether they were neighbours, friends or family. Today, it’s a very different story.

Today, we’re looking at communities that are the seven to seven, where people leave at 7 a.m., get home at 7 p.m., and can barely look after the people and the children in their own household.

But the problem with the bill is that it’s now turning the burden essentially to employers, and they’re left to find accommodation for the absence of an individual. While they may be able to do this, in some businesses this becomes a burden, and they then have to carry the burden.

The issue at hand is really the question of the strength of our safety net in our communities, and the importance, then, of looking at increasing the supports for providing those safety nets. Everyone has examples in their own ridings of people who need that additional help.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: As you know, I just went through a summer-long by-election campaign, and, going door to door, one of the things that I encountered more than anything else was the state of health care in our province. I find that health care is held together by so many threads. It can be long-term care. It can be caregiving. It can be the need for better services, shorter wait times. But it’s all held together by threads.

I know when I was on city council for seven years, a member from the other side of town—not a member, a citizen—would come and sit in the audience, because he was always out there raising money for the Ronald McDonald House. We have one in London; we don’t have one in Windsor yet. He wanted councillors to be mindful of the fact that one of the threads in health care that he thought was needed was a Ronald McDonald House, so people needing time away to go up and look after a loved one or a child out of town would have that caregiving capability.

I don’t know how many times in my community you read in the paper about a pasta fundraiser to raise money for a family that needs some kind of financial support because they have a child who has been injured or become ill and is being looked after out of town. But that’s one of the threads that ties health care together in our province.

Care in the home: We want to keep our seniors in the home as long as we can. We don’t want them to overburden the health care system and long-term care. We have enough people who should be in a long-term-care home now tying up a hospital bed.

So we need these threads. We need to look at all of these together, and I think it’s one of these golden threads, the caregiver bill, and I really look forward to it going to committee.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Ms. Soo Wong: I’m pleased to rise to speak in support of Bill 21. My colleague from Vaughan and others have spoken eloquently on this Bill 21 for well over 9.5 hours. I think it’s appropriate for this bill to go to committee. I think that’s the right thing to do. That’s my remark today.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Nickel Belt, you have two minutes for a response.

M me France Gélinas: Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker. I certainly want to congratulate my brand new colleague from Windsor–Tecumseh for his comments. It’s quite nerve-racking to be a new member in this House, so I wanted to congratulate him for his taking

part in this debate.

One other part of the bill that is problematic for me is the time frame of one week. That was there in the previous rendition of the bill; it is there in this rendition of the bill—where you have to take a week at a time. Well, for a lot of people, the number one reason they have to miss work is a doctor’s appointment. They want to take a loved one to a doctor’s appointment. Often an elderly person, a person who would qualify for the definition of a seriously ill person, is at home with a serious, chronic illness, but the bill does not allow that.

To know that you don’t have to be asking for a favour or any of this, that if you ask for a day off to take anybody—your mother-in-law or your spouse or a child—to the doctor and that you’re protected by law, to me, would have a real value, because this happens often. Now, what ends up happening is that you will ask your employer, who can say yes or no, and you feel like you’re asking for a favour. Having it in the act, to me, would be a real step forward: If you want to take an elderly, seriously ill person or any aged, seriously ill person to the doctor, you know that you are protected by this act, that if you ask for the day off, you will get it. That would be a step forward.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Rod Jackson: This is the first opportunity I’ve had to welcome the five newly elected members to the House. I wish them all the best. I look forward to working with you in the future, in the coming days.

It is a pleasure to rise in the House to speak to this act, the Employment Standards Amendment Act (Leaves to Help Families). It’s a privilege to speak to a bill that touches upon some of the most difficult experiences any person or family might be faced with. We all agree that some of the most traumatic experiences someone can experience are their loved one becoming critically ill or losing a child. Because these issues are ones that everyone can or will relate to at one point in their lives or another—and it’s also something we don’t want to face. It’s something none of us hope we ever have to face.

But we, as a society, have addressed it before in the existing Employment Standards Act, 2000, and we should continue to ensure that families can make it through these most trying times. I understand the Liberals would like to extend the scope of the act by striking out “organ donor leave, personal emergency leave” and substituting “organ donor leave, family caregiver legal, critically ill child care leave, crime-related child death or disappearance leave, personal emergency leave.”

Like the rest of our caucus here on this side, I’m supportive of the people and the families in these challenging situations, and that’s why I’ll support this bill. However, this legislation has some fundamental shortcomings, and I’m proud to stand here representing Barrie and to have this opportunity to speak to this bill. I think any indication from the government side that this is a waste of time and somehow something that doesn’t need to be done and needs to be rushed through is inappropriate.

The shortcomings of this bill, which I think will be very important to sort out at committee—this bill plays on an emotional subject that we hold very dear to us. It makes it easy for objective judgment to become clouded if we don’t carefully study it, and I think it deserves all the debate it will get in this House.

We are responsible to ensure that this bill ends up as worthy legislation that will truly help Ontario families and will not become just another piece of the Wynne government’s good-intentioned, little-substance, window-dressing bills: an idea that looks nice on paper but does little to actually help the families in very difficult and trying times. We need to make sure there’s substance to this. My fear is that this bill actually lacks the substance that it needs to really have the effect that I think is intended, and well-intended.

First, we must remember that to truly help Ontario families, we have to climb out of the impending $30-billion debt hole that this government has walked us into. We have to become serious about clearing up our debt and deficit, first and foremost. From this government’s budget, they’ve not demonstrated to all of us that they are still serious about paying down the debt and deficit. Indeed, it’s the fifth consecutive deficit budget that this government has presented to Ontario taxpayers. I guess with this bill they got a little more creative by trying to pin its costs on the feds through EI, which is presumptuous at best.

That leads me to a greater issue here, Speaker. First, there is no money, as was alluded to earlier. This bill has no money attached to it for support of people in this situation. Maybe that’s why the Liberals have decided to try to put it through with the aim that the feds will pay. I don’t know where such an immense sense of entitlement comes from. You simply don’t make bills on behalf of another entity. That’s more than presumptuous. It’s like me promising my constituents the Liberals will make good on their campaign promises or make good on their promises to get this province’s finances back on track.

We still see very little evidence, if any evidence, of that at all. It just doesn’t work.

Is this government honestly going to expect that the federal government will pick up the tab for Ontario? Really? Is that what this bill is expecting will happen? As I said, it is extremely presumptuous if that’s the case.

We can’t let this bill become another example of the government’s inability to carefully plan and execute what it has promised Ontarians. Hopefully, when this bill gets to committee, we can work to ensure this piece of legislation is simply not just another empty promise.

We also can’t let this Liberal government just conveniently point the finger at the federal government if this doesn’t work out. Pointing fingers at others is something this government has become habitually good at, just like they did after the G20 and in the wake of the Ornge scandal, never mind the gas plant scandal. The gas plant dumping debacles—I don’t even know what count we’re up to in document dumps. We used to actually be able to say, there’s the first document dump, the second document dump—

Interjection.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Yeah, something like that. A few million, as the Attorney General says. Thanks for that.

But it further proves that this Liberal government is often not prepared to take full accountability for their actions. That’s the real fear that Ontarians have right now. They don’t trust this government to follow through on their actions and to be open and transparent with them. If we do not consider the economics of this bill, quite simply then the costs will be put onto small business owners as well, or employees themselves certainly will feel the burden of unpaid leave.

Small businesses generally have one or two employees. In fact, in the Barrie area I know that 75% of all the people who are employed are employed by businesses with four or less employees. So really, small business is big business. Small business is the main economic driver in our province. When businesses face the burden of having an employee gone, it is very stressful on them, as well as on the family.

Of course, you hope that employers are going to be accommodating in a best-case scenario. You really hope that they will be. The reality is that I think there are some employers who won’t take this to heart and won’t treat their employees fairly. That’s why I think this legislation is needed.

But if one of the employees goes on leave, how does the government expect a small business to carry out its daily operation? We have to be cautious of adding an unnecessary burden to small and medium-sized businesses, especially at this time when their budgets are already stretched to the maximum.

Second, I don’t know many people today who can actually afford to take more than a week of unpaid leave off of work. This could lead to a terrible situation for anyone to be in, having to be forced to make a decision between caring for a loved one or paying for the essentials of life; food and rent, for example.

Let’s face it: The sky-high cost of living is a direct result of this government’s poor economic management and fiscal and energy policies. Average hard-working Ontarians simply cannot afford to take so many weeks of unpaid leave. Take hydro costs, for example. The hydro bill for the average Ontario family has gone up 84% since 2003.

Additionally, I think it’s more important to also talk about the problem of the deficiency that an employee must take a minimum of one week off to be eligible. As my colleagues have previously noted, there has to be more flexibility here. Sometimes caring for an ill loved one or dealing with the loss of a child or some of these issues that were mentioned needs an afternoon, or a day or two days off of work to go to a doctor’s appointment, or a morning off for a sick relative, or a few days to take care of finances and prescriptions; that sort of thing. It may mean bringing a child to chemotherapy once a week.

There needs to be more flexibility built into this bill. I’d love to be able to see that.

Furthermore, we just can’t let this bill become another example of this government’s poor planning. For one, it doesn’t provide adequate guidelines for what constitutes serious medical conditions. If the government leaves such an important definition open and free for

interpretation, it’s highly likely that this intended bill could turn into a dysfunctional disaster. There has to be more clarity here. For example, an employee who should be qualified for leave may not be given one because the doctor does not think he or she has a serious medical condition. Good laws should have clear

definitions, and I think Bill 21 falls short of this simple expectation.

The previous form of this bill, Bill 30, I believe—I’m glad that since then the government has made more of an effort to reach out to Ontarians to find out what the potential consequences may be for the average hard-working Ontarian. Before, because consultation was so limited, the government failed to address the real needs of Ontarians, and I think there has been more of an effort here.

Without more consultation, this bill may also create another unintended consequence on businesses in more unnecessary red tape. We need less regulation. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business estimates that red tape is costing Canadian businesses nearly $6,000 per employee each year. That’s about $2,000 more per employee when compared to United States, who’s one of our main competitors in the world market. The negative economic effect of red tape on business in Ontario is obviously something this government doesn’t understand, given the amount that they’ve created.

The recent creation of the College of Trades, for example—or, as many like to call it, the tax on trades—demonstrates that this government is completely out of touch with what Ontario businesses need to thrive and survive and employ more people. Ontario can’t afford meaningless and expensive window-dressing legislation. We need substance. We need to help hard-working Ontario families and businesses, and not just play with their emotions. Let’s get down to business.

While I support this bill, I believe there’s still work to be done. No one is going to disagree that this bill was drafted with the best of intentions, but each of its inadequacies could be potentially a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. That’s why I’m eager to see this bill debated more and go to committee and be improved. We need safeguards in the bill that will ensure that this bill will do the best to help Ontario families dealing with some of the hardest issues that a family can face.

In addition, we need consultations with Ontarians to find out what the impacts are on Ontarians, and that they will not pay for any unforeseen consequences.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Vanthof: Once again, it’s an honour to be able to rise in this House and speak on Bill 21 and comment on some of the remarks from the member from Barrie.

He said some things that we agree with. He spoke about families; he spoke about, “If you’re going to want to make legislation, make it worthy legislation; let’s not just talk about legislation for making a press release.” I think that’s one of the roles of this House: to stand in our place and bring things to the table that haven’t been brought before.

He also spoke about, “This bill has no money attached.” It is tough for a lot of families. You can say, “You can take eight weeks off,” but a lot of people can’t afford to take one day off. So it sounds nice in principle, but does it really work?

I’d also like to take a few seconds to talk about what the member from Nickel Belt said earlier this morning, because she raised a couple of issues, one especially that is the reason why we have to fully debate issues in the House. She raised the issue that aging is not a disease, and this bill does not cover people who take care of a parent or a family member who is frail due to aging, not necessarily sick—not that you can get a doctor’s note that they’re sick. That is a really, really good point.

Points like that are the reasons why I’m a bit offended by some members that we have to hurry up and we have to push this through. We could push things through without thinking, but is that really serving the people? Because that’s when you lose the points that change legislation from a good press release to worthy legislation that helps as many people as possible, and that is our role here.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The Attorney General.

Hon. John Gerretsen: I want to address the larger issue here, particularly those people who may be watching who are probably thinking to themselves at this point in time, “How is it possible that three parties basically agree on a bill and they’ve been talking about it for the last 10 to 12 hours”—at different time periods when you put it all together—“and it isn’t moving forward quicker than that?”

I’ll tell them why. When you have a majority government, basically the House leaders get together and arrive at a scheme that each bill will be given X number of hours of debate—some longer, some shorter, depending on the importance of the bill. Sometimes the government, as well—and I’ve been on both sides of the House—will say, “We’ve had enough debate,” and they will invoke closure. No government likes to do that, but you have to do that every now and then if you want to get bills moving forward.

People should also understand that the real work that’s being done on these bills is not so much in the House here—and I respect everybody’s right to speak on the bill—but it’s really done in committee. That’s where all the details get ironed out.

So what we have going on here right now in this minority government situation, where a closure motion would never pass, is that you’ve got the Conservative Party basically saying—and I know what you’re saying—is that, “We’ve got the right to speak for 20 minutes for each and every member.” They’ve got about 40 members, or a few less than that, so they can speak for 800 minutes, which is X number of hours, on each and every bill, whether they agree with us or not. That is filibustering, and that’s what doesn’t make this place work.

There are some really important issues that should be discussed here that aren’t being discussed. I think the people of Ontario should understand that. They should talk to their Conservative members, if they have one in their riding, and say, “Let’s get on with the business of governing. Get your work done. Get these bills through committee and let’s really implement them as soon as possible for the welfare of the people of Ontario.”

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Ted Arnott: The member for Barrie gave a fine speech this morning. I was glad to be here to hear it. He, I think, showed this House why the people of Barrie entrusted him with the responsibility of serving them here last October 2011, and why he deserves to be re-elected when the election eventually does in fact come.

This important bill—the Attorney General is quite right; this is an important piece of legislation and certainly that’s why members of the Legislature from our side of the House want to bring forward the ideas and the concerns of their constituents, as well as our support in principle for this piece of legislation, this Bill 21, because I think we all agree that there are many circumstances where families do need some leave from work and it’s important that employers understand that, too.

But I think we also need to recognize that the bill has to be given thorough discussion and needs to go to committee and that there will be an opportunity, hopefully, for public hearings, because this bill impacts a lot of people, not just the individuals who require the leave, including the business owners, of course. I would hope, expect and anticipate that the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, for one, would want to bring forward their ideas and suggestions so that we can improve this bill in the public interest.

The Attorney General seems to forget that the House was prorogued by the outgoing McGuinty government for some four months, and it makes it seem a little bit insincere on their part when they complain about the pace of legislation going through this House when in fact they shut down this place for more than four months, which of course really stopped, to a large degree, I would argue, dimmed the lights of democracy in the province of Ontario, because during that time there was no opportunity for the Ontario Legislature to sit, to deliberate on important issues like Bill 21 and the principle within it, and we weren’t able to hold the government to account.

I think that has to be put on the table, as well as the right of opposition members to speak on important issues. We are elected by our constituents to come here to represent their views, their beliefs and their values, and we submit that we will continue to do that as long as we are here. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

M me France Gélinas: J’aimerais remercier le député de Barrie pour ses commentaires. Je crois que ce qu’il a apporté à la table, vraiment, va nous aider à avoir un meilleur projet de loi. On est en train de parler d’aidants naturels. Pour moi, il y a un aidant naturel qui me vient en tête, et c’est M. Yvon Goudreau.

C’est un homme de mon comté, de Chelmsford, qui prend soin de son épouse, Shirley. Shirley est à la maison et veut demeurer à la maison, et lui, il fait tout en son pouvoir pour qu’elle demeure à la maison. Yvon Goudreau, c’est un aidant naturel exceptionnel et il commence à être âgé. Il a plus de 80 ans. Tout ce qu’il demande, c’est d’être capable de dormir le soir. Il prend soin de sa femme de 6 heures le matin jusqu’à 10 heures le soir.

À 10 heures le soir, il aimerait pouvoir dormir sa nuit pour être là pour aider sa femme le lendemain et pour faire ce que tous les aidants naturels font : profiter au maximum des gens qui nous entourent, de pouvoir vivre avec eux et de demeurer dans leur maison.

Il est venu me voir plusieurs fois pour dire : « France, j’ai besoin d’aide. Il faut que je dorme la nuit. Ma femme a besoin d’aide pendant la nuit. Il faut que je me repose. » La première ministre, M me Kathleen Wynne, était dans mon comté il y a deux semaines. Il est même allé la voir pour lui dire : « J’ai besoin d’aide. » Je suis allée plaider son histoire avec notre centre d’accès aux soins communautaires pour qu’il ait de l’aide le soir, et toujours pas. Tu sais, on a des projets de loi qui ont des beaux titres. Oui, on veut aider nos aidants naturels, mais dans les cas comme le cas de M. Goudreau, où il a besoin d’aide, l’aide n’est pas là. J’aimerais qu’on change ça. Merci.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Barrie, you have two minutes for a response.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Thank you, Speaker. I’d like to thank the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane, the Attorney General, the member from Nickel Belt and the member from Wellington–Halton Hills for their participation in this debate.

I will say, Speaker, that debate is important. It’s not always about whether we all agree on something or not; I think it’s about what we all think about these bills. In this particular case, it’s correct. We do agree that this bill needs to go through, but I think we also should be able to agree that this bill needs to go through its due process so it can be as good as it can be. I’d like to think that the government is open enough to understand that there’s value to all of us and all the input that we bring in this House.

Not all of us sit in the committee, unless we want to go to Committee of the Whole on it—I’m game for that. But you know what? We all have the right to speak to this bill. We all have input. I have specific input I want to give to it, and I believe I did today. I won’t apologize for that. We can’t even begin to shrink from our responsibilities in this place. This is one of our responsibilities, and I’m proud to execute it. This is about getting things done and getting them done right. Not fast all the time is best, right?

We have to make sure that we cover all the bases and we make sure all these things are covered.

There are some misgivings of this bill. This does present some problems for employers. They need input into this. They need to have their concerns addressed. Employees who may or may not benefit from this bill need to have their issues addressed. We’re looking at some legislation that looks good. It’s great window dressing, and it has great intentions. I really do believe that. But a lot of the people who need to benefit from it won’t be able to. We just assume that it’s going to get picked up by EI.

I can only assume that’s what the government is assuming when they put this bill through, because these people aren’t going to have much other option. And a minimum of one week to be eligible for the leave? It needs to be changed. We need fulsome debate. This needs to go to committee and get done for the people of Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Michael Mantha: I’m pleased to rise to give my comments on this particular bill. I want to apologize to my friend across the way, the Attorney General, for not having remembered his ministry a while ago. Maybe it’s because we have an outstanding file between me and him that he never got back to me. So, since he forgot about getting back to me about it, I’m kind of throwing the stone back. I’m sure Isabel out of Manitouwadge would really like to hear us talking to each other. We’ll touch base after the file today. Again, I do appreciate the comments that he made.

Again, I pointed out earlier the reason why we’re talking about this bill this morning. We need to give credit where credit is due, and that’s to the member from Nickel Belt. For five years—I think for longer than five years—she was working extremely hard on the tanning bed bill. She was doing the work. She was going out talking to individuals.

She was going out, making sure—bringing these issues forward, and after a prorogued session, we got this idea, this great idea, which seems to be a theme that is happening with this government—it was taken in by one of the Liberal members, and we dealt with the tanning bed issue. We had several discussions on that tanning bed issue bill, and we had an overall consensus.

We’ve been talking about it for, like I said, at least five years. We finally got it moved forward. That is the reason why—because the tanning beds is what we were supposed to talk about for the entire balance of this week. This bill was nowhere near on the radar. So for the members, for the Attorney General across the way to say that individuals are filibustering—I think what we’re doing is a very democratic process, to talk about our issues and what our constituents are telling us from back home, and bringing those issues forward. I think that’s very important, because by having these discussions, that’s how we’re going to be able to enhance this bill.

For the people that are listening, they’re actually engaging in the discussions that we’re having right now. Those who are interested in moving this bill forward have an opportunity to collect the information that is being discussed through this House, and the opportunity they have as individuals to come forth and give their testimonial in front of the committee—that’s what they’re looking forward to. So it’s not wasting time. We are moving forward with it, and I think it’s everybody’s right and opportunity to talk about what’s going on back home.

Now I’m going to use this opportunity to talk about—I’d love to use this opportunity to talk about many things. I’d love to talk this morning about the job cuts that are happening in ServiceOntario and MNR offices across northern Ontario, but that’s not what we’re talking about here this morning. Those individuals are also worried about this bill because they’re weighing the decisions that they’re going to have to make: “If I take a leave, am I going to have a job? Will I be here tomorrow morning? I don’t know if I’m going to be here.”

These individuals who work through the MNR and over at ServiceOntario kiosks provide a huge service for all of our communities. A lot of them—and I know these ServiceOntario agents go over and above the call—would actually help some of these individuals fill out these applications. Once we agree on this process to get family members with them—because in northern Ontario we just don’t have those regular resources; the individuals that you deal with are your neighbours. It’s your aunt that’s working over at this kiosk. These are essential services and important services that we need to maintain in northern Ontario and in our communities.

Now, again, I really do want to talk about the caregiver bill but I would also like to talk this morning about the operating costs of small water treatment plants across northern Ontario, particularly in Algoma–Manitoulin. I have the community of the North Shore. I have the community of Serpent River and those areas, and also Manitowaning, who are facing huge, huge costs with water bills, but that’s not what we’re talking about this morning. That’s important, but those are things that those individuals are talking to me about.

But then again, they are also faced with making certain decisions. “Will I be able to afford to take care of my mother? If I can’t afford to provide for my family and if I can’t afford to pay my bills with the municipality because of the high operating costs of our water treatment plants, I can’t do it.”

So those are some of the things that people are telling me about. When we’re talking about clean and safe water—just clean, safe water that you can actually drink. We enjoy drinking the water that we have here, but I still have in Algoma–Manitoulin people who can’t even go to their kitchen tap and pour a glass of water and drink it. That’s important, too. But we’re talking about the caregiver bill here this morning. Now we’re talking about water.

I have a lot of water, and right now my heart and my mind are with the communities that I have back home: Johnson and Macdonald, Meredith and Aberdeen Additional, Huron Shores and Plummer Additional—all these townships have declared a state of emergency because of too much water.

I indulge you, Mr. Speaker, to give me the leniency to talk about these communities. They’re going to be going through some very difficult times. Why? Because some of their loved ones can’t reach them. The waters that have come down have basically kept them away from being reunited from their family members. Communities are working diligently. I’ve talked with Minister Meilleur, who has been working with the communities, and also with Minister Jeffrey, who has been also assisting with the areas and making sure that the resources are there. Those are issues that are important to me this morning, Mr. Speaker, and those are the things that matter most to me this morning.

But we’re talking about the caregiver bill this morning, and I’m going to get back to that bill very shortly. But I wanted to highlight some of the important issues that are going on in Algoma–Manitoulin. Those are the issues that are front and centre with me this morning.

As I mentioned in some of my comments that I made yesterday, I have this wonderful, wonderful neighbour. Her name is Georgine Boucher. I look at her as a nanny. She takes care of our place when we’re not around. She keeps her eye out. She makes sure that nobody is coming into the household, and if there is something, she makes sure she documents it and she watches it. She does have a daughter; she’s a teacher, and she does have a good son-in-law who would take care of her, but we also live right next door to her so my wife is also there to help her if ever she was in need. But she’s one of those lucky ones.

There are many, many Georgine Bouchers in my riding of Algoma–Manitoulin who don’t have the luxury of having good neighbours or even having a neighbour. They are stuck in an isolated area and they don’t have family members. Either their kids live far away or they don’t have the opportunity to reach out to care for them. So, as an individual, and as many individuals across northern Ontario, they would like to have that opportunity to care for them.

But if you look at the definition—there are a lot of

definitions here: spouse, parent, grandparent, stepson, father, stepchild, grandparent, step-grandparents, relatives, spouse, brother-in-law. But if you look at number 8, it says, “Any individual prescribed as a family member for the purpose of this section.” As far as I’m concerned, she’s a family member, and a lot of people feel that those individuals are family members. Those aren’t addressed in this bill, and we’d like to see that.

I also have a wonderful father-in-law. He’s a wonderful man and, well, he’s sometimes stubborn. We do get along as long as we’re not in the same room. But he, as well, is getting up there in age. Five years ago—I wish I had more time; you really would enjoy this story—he was diagnosed with cancer, so he lost a portion of his lung. Unfortunately, because of the scarring and everything, he can’t do what he really enjoyed, which is his firewood. My wife and my mother-in-law—young as a cookie, but she as well is starting to feel her pains a little bit more.

So part of my summer holidays that I had is that my wife felt the need to go care for her parents back home. We took three days and we went up there and we did what my father-in-law enjoyed doing his entire life, which is firewood. So we bucked it, we cut it, we split it, and we stored it. I’m glad I had that opportunity to do that.

As politicians and parliamentarians, we tend to lose what brings us close to our true values back home. It’s actually something I enjoyed doing with my wife for a very, very long time. It was really enjoyable. I actually really enjoy doing the firewood. But not everybody has that opportunity to care. It wasn’t that he was ill; he just needed a little bit of care. We need to find a way through this bill to actually accomplish that.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Seeing the time on the clock, this House stands recessed until 10:30 a.m.

The House recessed from 1012 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Peter Shurman: I’m delighted to introduce, in the west members’ gallery, my colleague from Thornhill, the honourable Peter Kent, MP. We work together in tandem—a great guy. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

I’d also like to introduce, from the York Regional Police, the head of the diversity, equity and inclusion bureau, Inspector Ricky Veerappan.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’d like to ask my colleagues in the House to welcome two fantastic community volunteers from Don Valley West: Nawal Ateeq and Mohammad Wani. Welcome.

Mr. Steve Clark: I would like to introduce, in the public gallery today, Alexandra Prefasi-Horning, who is the mother of our amazing page from Leeds–Grenville, Peyton. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I’d like to introduce, in the east members’ gallery, Mr. Jeff Mole from the Trillium Energy Alliance. Please welcome him to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Reza Moridi: I would like to welcome delegations from the Radiation Safety Institute of Canada, the Ontario Lung Association and the Canadian Cancer Society.

In the members’ gallery are the honourable Steve Mahoney, a former member of this House and also a former member of the House of Commons; Mr. Tim Armstrong, a former deputy minister of this government; Mike Haynes; and Natalia Mozayani.

Also, from the Ontario Lung Association, we have Elizabeth Harvey and Connie Choy, and from the Canadian Cancer Society, Kelly Gorman. Please join me in welcoming these delegations. They are here to celebrate the introduction of radon awareness legislation by Dr. Shafiq Qaadri.

Hon. John Gerretsen: I would ask you to help me welcome, in the members’ gallery, the Honourable Suzanne Anton, the Attorney General and Minister of Justice for the province of British Columbia. She is joined by her deputy minister, Richard Fyfe; and her chief of staff, Evan Southern.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I’d like to introduce my friend Jeff Mole, a community energy activist from the Muskoka area.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: I’d like to welcome a visitor and friend from my riding of Thunder Bay–Superior North. Judy Flett is a well-respected educator, currently serving at Lakehead University as the programs coordinator in the department of aboriginal education.

A valued leader in the region and a mentor in the field and a mentor in the field of aboriginal education, Judy was instrumental in developing and implementing a successful youth entrepreneurship program in Far North communities working with the Right Honourable Paul Martin. Her contributions are numerous. I’m pleased to welcome Judy Flett.

Mr. Jack MacLaren: I’d like to introduce Ron Barr, who is president of the Greater Ottawa Truckers Association. He’s here with us today.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: The member from Carleton–Mississippi Mills also should have acknowledged a lovely lady from Carleton–Mississippi Mills and Ottawa. His lovely wife, Janet, is here.

But I also have another introduction. The other day, I had introduced my friend and said that had left. Remember my friend who I had worked for Joe Clark with? He is here today. You don’t seem to be howling about Mr. Clark today. My friend Ed Sem is also here, from British Columbia.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m sure the member from Nepean–Carleton is going to get some good brownie points from the member from—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No, no, he was thankful.

As is the tradition of the Speaker, I will introduce a former member, Mr. Steve Mahoney from Mississauga West in the 34th and 35th Parliaments. Welcome, Steve.

ORAL QUESTIONS

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Premier, following up on yesterday’s questions where I called upon you to keep your promise to the people of Scarborough when it comes to the subway that you had promised during the by-election. Yesterday, I know you met with TTC chair Karen Stintz, who had a very similar viewpoint that I did. So if I didn’t convince you, hopefully Councillor Stintz did.

A simple question, Premier: Will you keep your promise to the people of Scarborough from the by-election and build that subway, just as council asked?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Our commitment to the people of the GTHA and beyond has been to build transit, and we are doing that and we will keep that commitment, Mr. Speaker. We have committed that we have $1.4 billion, plus another $320 million that we commit to building a subway in Scarborough. That commitment is on the table. We will move forward with that.

Quite frankly, I have to say that Karen Stintz has been an advocate for transit. She has been an advocate for transit all along, which is actually not the case of the party opposite. The party opposite has not supported us on building transit because, as you know, there are many, many projects going on around the province. We have not had the support of the official opposition. I’m glad to see now that they are interested in building transit, and I look forward to working with them as we make those investments that are so necessary for the economic well-being and growth of the GTHA and the province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Let’s be direct about the record, Speaker. Leslie Frost built the Yonge subway, Robarts built the Bloor line, Bill Davis extended the Bloor line, lengthened Yonge to North York—

Interjections.

Mr. Tim Hudak: I was on a roll, Speaker.

Mike Harris built the Sheppard line.

The number of subway stops the Liberals have built in Toronto: zero. The number the PCs have built: 64.

All we’re asking, Premier—you said you were going to be different than Dalton McGuinty. Will you keep your promise to the people of Scarborough, or are you going to weasel off the hook?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: That was an interesting litany of investing in subways. We stopped the Eglinton line at—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Prince Edward–Hastings, come to order. The member from Nepean–Carleton, come to order. The member from Renfrew, come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Oh, you didn’t think I missed you, did you?

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Since we came into office in 2003, we’ve been investing in transit. We will continue to invest in transit. We will keep our commitment to the people of Scarborough to build the subway in Scarborough, Mr. Speaker, and that $1.4 billion will go into building that line on the alignment that has been the alignment all along in the plan. That’s the conversation that I had with Councillor Stintz yesterday. We will continue to make that investment, and I hope we’ll be able to work with the city council in order to do that, because the people of Scarborough need that transit.

We need to make that investment in order for the people of Scarborough to be able to have the access to their work and to their schools that they need.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: The Liberals may talk a good game. They may talk about subway stops; they may announce subway stops. Speaker, after 10 years of Liberal government, additional Liberal subway stops: zero.

And here’s what I worry about: You made a promise in the by-election. Now you’re trying to wiggle off the hook on that promise, it’s clear. You send out your transportation minister, who, quite frankly, has the stability of a ball in a roulette wheel popping around. But gambling on a subway: That’s a hell of a risk.

Why don’t you actually stick to the plan, the city plan, the original plan, build it from Kennedy, Scarborough Town Centre to Sheppard? It’s the right thing to do. Please keep your promise. Don’t pull a Dalton McGuinty. Don’t flip-flop. Do what you said you were going to do.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Leader of the Opposition knows that the people who are going to be using the extension of the Spadina line are very excited about the opening of that line. I know that the Leader of the Opposition knows, because he actually lives quite close to the work that’s being done on Eglinton Avenue, that there are holes that will not be filled in. Those holes are actually going to function and we’re going to have the Eglinton Crosstown line because that’s the investment that we have made.

One of the issues that I talked about with Councillor Stintz yesterday was that the federal government has not come forward to put money into an expanded version of the line that the city council would like to see. I said to Councillor Stintz, if she can find a way to bring that money forward then that’s one thing. But the fact is that money has not been forthcoming. We have made the commitment. We’re the only level of government that has made that commitment, and we will stick to that commitment of $1.4 billion.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. Douglas C. Holyday: My question is again for the Premier. Madam Premier, you just said you met with the chair of the TTC yesterday. Why didn’t you meet with the chair of the TTC before you made your announcement—

Interjections.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I’m waiting for them to go back to John A. Macdonald and the railroad, Mr. Speaker. The reality is, these new Tories haven’t built a subway. That group never, ever, laid a line. That group only filled it in. And I have met with—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Minister.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Thank you.

And yes, I have had several meetings over the summer with Karen Stintz, my dear friend over there, and the last time we offered them $1.4 billion, the only money we had for a subway, the chair of the TTC answered us by declaring—while the press conference was going on—that it was dead on arrival. She wouldn’t take the money. She couldn’t take yes for an answer, and failed to support a joint strategy to get the federal government to the table.

I was just speaking to Mr. Kent pointing out that Ms. Raitt and Mr. Lebel haven’t met with me in six months. Your federal members won’t have a conversation—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Douglas C. Holyday: Madam Premier, every time the Minister of Transportation opens his mouth, he either insults someone or releases a new plan. I wouldn’t trust him to run a one-car funeral.

Premier, what I want to know is: How do you plan on getting this transit built without the support of the TTC and the city of Toronto?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I have great respect for the member for Etobicoke–Lakeshore, but I think we disagree on one thing: His idea of subway building is to pass a motion; ours is to write a cheque. Mr. Speaker, we don’t need to go back to 1867 or 1967. All we have to do is look at the record of the members opposite: Lots of motions, not a single cheque; lots of subway stations closed; lines cancelled and filled in.

This government has boring machines right now under Eglinton, on the University line. We have more work; we have $16.4 billion. We’re the only party, the only government with serious money into this: 90% of the funding. They owe an apology to the people of Scarborough for misleading them—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Douglas C. Holyday: Speaker, this plan is full of holes. There isn’t the money here to do what’s needed. They’re counting on the city of Toronto to put up money and they haven’t even discussed the matter with them. They’ve also put forward a plan that the TTC says is not feasible technically. Now, how in the world can you responsibly go to the people of Scarborough and tell them you’ve got a plan that you haven’t even researched?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Stop the clock.

I continue to try to find the decorum that I seek. When I’m speaking and people have to use their earpiece, that means others are speaking while I’m trying to make a point.

I’ll remind members that I do not like when members’ names are used in the House. I want ridings to be referred to or titles to be referred to. It does not elevate the debate; it actually lowers it and it becomes personal. Please stay on focus with what that request is. It will help the decorum rise.

Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: On this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, we kind of like engineers. As a matter of fact, we like evidence and we like engineers.

Metrolinx has a very competent set of engineers, and when proposals came forward, they were asked to evaluate them. Mr. Collins and the Metrolinx board have said very clearly the technology is feasible; this works.

We did not ask city council for a new plan or an alternative route. We said we want to stick with the existing route. We asked them whether they wanted an LRT or a subway. They said they wanted a subway. We said we will build the subway.

We have a process called iCorridor in the Ministry of Transportation. I think it is the most advanced engineering and planning tool in North America. It says that a subway doesn’t make much sense; that actually, the original plan for LRT after Scarborough out to Sheppard is that—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Councillor Thompson and Minister Duguid are going to look at those issues in a thorough study and look at connectivity and take the time to do that. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, we’ll listen to the engineers.

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Before the session began, New Democrats put our priorities on the table. We want to ensure that the results people were promised are actually delivered: that home care wait times will go down, that youth unemployment will go down, that auto insurance rates go down, and that Queen’s Park gets some new transparency from the Financial Accountability Office. But the Premier still hasn’t set out an agenda, Speaker. She seems more interested in playing politics and making election threats that even she doesn’t take seriously. Is the Premier going to keep playing games over issues she knows will be supported, or will she just get down to work?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let’s just be clear that today, in fact, there will be a vote on the issue of the Financial Accountability Office, Mr. Speaker. So we are moving ahead with those commitments that we made.

The comments that I made at the beginning of the week about wanting to find those areas where all of us in this House could work together to pass legislation, to move ahead on issues where we could find agreement, like consumer protection, as an example; like the Financial Accountability Office—I thought it was important that we identify those areas. There is lots of room for continued wrangling on other issues, but where there is agreement, it seemed to me that it would make sense for us to agree that we would move ahead on those issues. That was my point at the beginning of the week. That remains my point, and I am pleased that we are moving ahead with some of those issues.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, Ontarians want to see their politicians focused on results for them, not on their own political interests. That’s why New Democrats are focused on creating jobs, improving health care, making life affordable and making government accountable.

There’s a lot of work to do, but the Premier seems much more interested in picking fights over legislation that we’ve already agreed to pass instead of focusing on the work that she needs to do here. Is the Premier ready to deliver on the commitments she has made or can we expect more of the same political game-playing?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, part of the delivery on those results is making sure that we get legislation through the House. That’s part of what I have to do, what we have to do as elected members, to make sure that we can deliver on those results. There are three bills moving forward this week, which I’m very pleased about. It’s exactly what I was talking about. Consumer protections: We’ve got all-party support. The Leader of the Opposition voted for it. That’s a good thing. We’re moving ahead on the tanning bed legislation. That had all-party support—and on the Financial Accountability Office, as I said. That’s the point I was making.

I feel very, very good that we’re able to move that legislation ahead for the very reason that the leader of the third party identifies. We need to get results. We need to make sure that we act on those commitments, and that’s what I’m committed to doing.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: In the lead-up to the spring budget, we made it pretty clear that we need a fair and balanced approach to balancing the books. The government’s plan to create a new $1.3-billion tax loophole for corporations so they can write off the HST on wining and dining their clients was a cost that we just simply cannot afford here in the province.

Now, the Premier and the Minister of Finance said that they’d take action on that file, but nothing has happened. If the Premier is looking for some priorities, that’s one the people need her to deliver on. Speaker, why hasn’t she made it a priority?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Here’s an area where there’s a disagreement about what has happened or hasn’t happened. Before the leader of the third party started to ask these questions in the House, the finance minister had been in touch with the federal government and had raised this issue. He has also made the point repeatedly that it’s not a loophole. It’s nothing new; it’s the rollout of the HST. So we did make it a priority. And I’m not saying that the third party didn’t raise the profile of the issue; they did, and that’s as it should be, but we have taken action.

We cannot act unilaterally, and so the finance minister has taken the appropriate action by being in touch with the federal government, and we will continue to pursue that.

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also to the Premier. People want to see their government deliver results, but all they see from the Liberals is more games. We worked hard last spring to get some help for drivers paying the highest auto insurance rates in the country, and commitments were made in the budget. But this is what people have seen: the government working overtime to help insurance companies pad their bottom line while they’re moving at a glacial pace when it comes to helping drivers get some fairness and some relief. Is the Premier ready to make this a priority?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We’ve made it a priority, and the finance minister made it clear that we are acting on the commitment to reduce auto insurance rates by 15%. It is easy to craft a sound bite about a complex issue, but I think it does a disservice to people to suggest that somehow the leader of the third party could snap her fingers and, all of a sudden, there would be an automatic 15% reduction across the province. That is not how insurance works, Mr. Speaker. The reality is that there are costs in the system that need to be removed. We have issues of fraud in the system that need to be removed.

We are working with the system to make sure that those costs are removed so that there can be a reduction across the province. And the fact is, it’s an average reduction across the province.

We will see that happen. We are working on making that happen, and that was our commitment.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The government seems to snap their fingers and get the auto insurance industry some pretty good bonuses to their bottom line, but they can’t seem to snap their fingers and help out consumers. That’s a bit of a problem.

We’re taking a step towards future government accountability with the New Democrat plan for the Financial Accountability Office, but people are expecting real answers when it comes to the Liberal record on the gas plants. Now, the Premier insisted that the public inquiry wouldn’t be needed because the committee would be able to get all questions answered. But this is what Ontarians have seen this week: Every time I’ve asked if the Premier will support expanding the mandate of the gas plants committee so we can ask Liberal insiders about their interference with the Speaker, she dodges that question.

It’s pretty simple: Will she do her part so Ontarians can get answers, or will she keep protecting senior Liberal insiders?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I thought we were talking about auto insurance, so I’m just going to say something else about auto insurance and then I will come to this other question, which seems like it’s a different question. But I just want to make sure that the leader of the third party knows that in a memo that was an internal memo in her party on August 23, the statement about us, about the Liberals, was, “We cannot truthfully say they’ve broken a promise….” That’s an NDP—

Interjections.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —memo. So the reality is we’re following through on our commitment. She knows it, Mr. Speaker. She knows that we are following through on what we said about auto insurance, and we will continue to do that.

On the other issue, I think I’ve answered the question many times. I’m open to having the questions answered that are asked at committee.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I tried to give the member a little bit of leeway in the posing of the question and its relationship to the first question, and it didn’t seem to match, so I’m going to ask the member to stay focused on the original question in her final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, Speaker, the questions are about the government’s promises in getting results on the things that they’ve promised. They’ve been pretty consistent, so I’ll continue on that vein.

I can say to the Premier—through you, to the Premier, Speaker—that making a promise is one thing, but delivering it at a glacial, glacial, glacial pace is something that we’re quite worried about, and that’s, I think, something that Ontarians are worried about, because what they’re tired of is, instead of their priorities taking precedence, they’re tired of political games taking precedence here, Speaker. They want their government to actually deliver results and they want their government to actually be accountable.

Now, will the Premier stop posturing, stop playing games and get down to work by keeping the promises that she made in the budget?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I thank the member for that.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I want to be clear with the people of Ontario that we are acting on every single one of the commitments that we made in the budget, Mr. Speaker. Our work this fall is about making sure that we put those commitments, those strategies, in place.

Over the summer, the Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Employment and the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities were working to make sure that the youth employment strategy was put in place, that those funds were there, that that $295 million would be accessible for young people as they look for opportunities in the workforce.

The $100 million for roads and bridges and infrastructure in rural and northern communities—we worked to make sure that those criteria are in place so that municipalities could apply for those funds.

Those are the things that are going to make a difference to people. Those are the commitments that we’re acting on, including auto insurance. But every single one of the commitments that we made, we are taking action on.

CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY

Mr. Jack MacLaren: My question is to the Minister of Labour. Minister, the Fairness is a Two-Way Street Act will shut the door on Quebec contractors coming into Ontario. In spite of countless labour mobility agreements between Ontario and Quebec, Ontario contractors are stopped from working in Quebec, while Quebec contractors have full access to the eastern Ontario construction market. Ontarians want equal access to the Quebec construction market.

Minister, numerous workers have expressed their growing frustration with this gross unfairness. Will you support Ontario workers by demanding that Quebec take down their barriers to Ontario construction contractors and workers coming into Quebec?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of Labour?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to thank the honourable member for the question, but, Speaker, our government is focused on creating more jobs for Ontarians. The honourable member’s bill would do just the opposite. It will create trade barriers that will jeopardize—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Northumberland–Quinte West, come to order.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: —infrastructure projects in our province and hurt jobs, not only across the province but especially in the city of Ottawa.

Speaker, what’s been approached, in terms of the private member’s bill, is the wrong approach. We’ve seen this bill before, when the Harris-Hudak government had the same bill before, and it did not work at that time. It resulted in a loss of jobs. It resulted in a court case, which the city of Ottawa lost, as a result of that particular piece of legislation. Speaker—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I remind you again that when somebody’s answering from the answering side, there should be no noise—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And no noise on the other side.

Please finish.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I’m done. Thank you, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jack MacLaren: Minister, the original Fairness is a Two-Way Street Act became law in 1999 to solve this worker mobility problem with Quebec. It was repealed in 2006, when the government signed the agreement on labour mobility between Ontario and Quebec. Since 2006, the Quebec provincial government has reverted to their old ways, creating a regulatory system designed to punish Ontarians by shutting Ontario contractors out of the Quebec construction market.

Minister, will you and your eastern Ontario colleagues support the construction workers of eastern Ontario by voting for the Fairness is a Two-Way Street Act? Will you demand that Quebec open up their borders to Ontario construction workers?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of Labour.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you very much, Speaker.

You know, don’t take my word on the impact of the Fairness is a Two-Way Street Act. This is what the mayor of Ottawa had to say today: “The previous legislation did not correct concerns about worker mobility, and the exact same legislation is unlikely to do so in 2013. Therefore, I could not support your private member’s bill,” and that is to the honourable member.

But, Speaker, this is what John DeVries, the president of the Ottawa Construction Association, said—this is the construction association of Ottawa representing the industry: “Bringing back the Fairness is a Two-Way Street Act is not a solution. In essence, Ontario was penalizing our workforce—not exactly the desired outcome.”

Lastly, this is what Richard Hayter from the building trades in Ottawa said about this bill: “This act certainly won’t make”—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. Rosario Marchese: My question is to the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure. Last week, the minister blindsided everyone and announced an uncosted and technically challenged subway proposal. By acting unilaterally, this minister and this government have created unprecedented division and chaos in Scarborough transit planning. This action is setting back new transit in Scarborough, which is already a decade behind schedule.

Why didn’t the minister work with city council and the TTC to get them onboard so we can finally get some shovels in the ground in Scarborough?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Councillor Thompson, who is the city councillor in the area and the chair of the economic development committee, will be shortly convening a meeting with my colleague Minister Duguid to address the planning and connectivity issues.

We looked very carefully at this line—and it was not me; we have two ministries. The Ministry of Transportation went through iCorridor, which looks at ridership, which we estimate—and I don’t mean me, I mean the experts—at about 10,000 riders on this portion of the line. There is not that level of ridership after the Scarborough Town Centre and there isn’t the evidence yet to justify a subway beyond that point. As a matter of fact, the original plan in the negotiations with the city seems to suggest that the BRT and LRT and the other projects in that connectivity, on the evidence, on the engineering, make more sense.

The person sowing chaos here is the member opposite and the party opposite, who can’t produce an option that’s viable, nor can they support any funding, any revenue, and they constantly undermine efforts to fund the subways that the Scarborough folks want.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Well, here is the support that the minister has for his scheme thus far: The CEO of the TTC says the plan is technically challenged. The chair of the TTC says the plan doesn’t meet the city’s transit objectives. Experts like Steve Munro say the plan simply cannot be built for $1.4 billion. This minister has no partners. The minister has insulted the people he needs to get this done.

When will the Liberal government drop the hubris, get back to the conversation and build the relationships needed to move forward with transit?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, I didn’t develop iCorridor. I’m not the executive vice-president, Jack Collins, and his engineering team, who said this was feasible. And I don’t think Ms. Stintz or the member opposite is an engineer, and I’m not. So that was the ruling from Metrolinx. That was quite clear. This government would not proceed on something that wasn’t engineeringly feasible, and took great care to make sure that it was. As a matter of fact, I released the other day iCorridor and GeoPortal, which are the most advanced planning tools that look at ridership and land use, and we have a highly—

Interjections.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: —with those who want to work with us.

When Ms. Stintz declared that the $1.4 billion was going to result in a plan that has no business plan—Mr. Flaherty and I are both waiting for the business plan on this alternate route that has never been seen by anyone. We’re actually sticking to the original route that has been researched and on which millions of dollars have been spent. You’re proposing a plan that’s been pulled out of the air.

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. This summer, the government implemented changes in the way physiotherapy services are offered in Ontario. I understand that these changes were necessary to crack down on fraud and improve access to physiotherapy for Ontarians in all parts of Ontario. Still, some of the seniors in my riding of Scarborough–Agincourt are worried that these changes can make physiotherapy service less accessible to them going forward.

Speaker, through you to the minister, can she tell my constituents why these changes are necessary and also reassure the seniors in my riding that they will continue to receive the physiotherapy they need?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m very grateful to the member from Scarborough–Agincourt for this question, because I do welcome the opportunity to clarify some of the issues around our changes to physiotherapy.

I want to be very clear, Speaker: Eligibility for physiotherapy has not changed. The people who were eligible before are still eligible. What has changed is our delivery model. These changes will allow us to deliver physiotherapy to far more people and to expand exercise programs and falls prevention programs. Speaker, 200,000 more Ontarians will be able to access services as a result of these changes.

We’re doubling the number of physiotherapy clinics so people across the province, no matter where they live in this great province, will have access to clinic-based physiotherapy. We’re also bringing physiotherapy into family health care, so our family health teams, nurse-practitioner-led clinics—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Soo Wong: I’m sure the many seniors in my riding will be delighted to hear that physiotherapy services are being expanded.

I understand that these are the first major changes to the way physiotherapy is being delivered and billed in over 40 years. I know my constituents will be happy to hear that the government is modernizing physiotherapy in Ontario. But there are many seniors and other people who require physiotherapy in Scarborough–Agincourt and across Ontario who are worried that they will see interruption in their services as these changes are being implemented.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, can she tell the House what is being done to ensure those who need physiotherapy services will continue to receive them?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: My highest priority is to ensure that seniors get the services they need to stay healthy, mobile and independent. We are working with LHINs, with the community care access centres, with the community clinics and with other partners to ensure a smooth transition to the model.

Speaker, I’m happy to provide an update to this House. Assessments are taking place across the province. People are receiving physiotherapy under the new model. This is very good news: 12 of the 14 LHINs have now eliminated the wait list for in-home physiotherapy. This is great news.

More than 700 sites across this province have exercise programs and falls prevention programs in place. St. Hilda’s Towers in Toronto, for example, has falls prevention classes; they started last Friday. Resident assessments are ongoing. Seniors are already benefitting, and as we expand this even more, seniors will benefit from these changes.

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: My question is to the Premier and Minister of Agriculture and Food. The 2012 Liberal budget, aided and abetted by the NDP, kicked the legs out from under the horse racing industry. They did so with no consultation and no concern for the thousands of jobs that would be lost, mainly in rural Ontario. But the government did create three new part-time jobs for former cabinet ministers, and it also created work for consulting and communications firms.

My question to the Premier: Can she tell us what her government’s Horse Racing Industry Transition Panel has cost taxpayers so far?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you for the question. I know that the member opposite, because he represents a riding that is quite rural, understands the importance of having a sustainable horse racing industry. I also know that he understands how much people like John Snobelen, Elmer Buchanan and John Wilkinson know about the horse racing industry. He knows how important it is that we have people with expertise giving us advice.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Attorney General, just when I’m going to nail them, you do something. I’m not going to nail them ,but consider yourself nailed.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I know that—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Now I’ll nail you.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the member opposite wants the horse racing industry to be sustainable. I’ve written a letter to the panel. I’ve asked for a five-year plan. They are working on that five-year plan, working on the recommendations, and I look forward to acting on those recommendations.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: Premier, it took a freedom-of-information request to learn the truth. The panel billed taxpayers for compensation, expenses and outside consultants. Their grand total so far is $526,649. The Premier’s new instructions to the panel will push the bill even higher. Panelists are billing taxpayers $750 a day for attending meetings and often for just making conference calls. Even a laundry bill was approved. We need to know how this Premier justifies putting thousands out of work and then spending over half a million dollars cleaning up the government’s mess.

Does the Premier really think that this is the way to support the horse racing industry and win back rural Ontario? If so, the Premier is sadly mistaken.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we are paying John Snobelen and Elmer Buchanan and John Wilkinson to do this work. Yes, they have billed expenses. There was an administrative error—

Interjections.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’d like you to hear this: There was an administrative error made in terms of the billing of a dry-cleaning bill that has been—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’d like to hear it.

Interjection: Me too.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): That’s not helpful.

Finish, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: There was an error made. There was a bill approved that shouldn’t have been—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Lambton, come to order. Right as soon as I sit down, it doesn’t start back up again. The intent is to get it quiet.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: That bill that was approved in error has been paid back. All of the expenses now fall into line with the guidelines of the OPS.

The point is, though, I thought that the party opposite wanted to see the horse racing industry on a solid footing. I thought that the party opposite wanted to see race dates and wanted to see breeders in good shape. That’s what we want on this side of the House.

CHILD CARE CENTRES

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of Education. This morning, parents and children at École Napoléon in my riding were told that effectively their child care centre was being shut down on Monday. Twelve children and their families are being thrown into crisis over child care. Parents who have to go to work on Monday are scrambling to find a place for their children. Children are asking why they’re going to be separated from their friends. This school and its unlicensed day care have been inspected by your ministry for the past three years and no one noticed that an unlicensed child care operation was going on. Why did it take three years to notice and speak to the school?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you for your question. You obviously have raised some issues around inspections in child care, and I will absolutely look into that. It’s not an issue that I’ve been advised of. This is the first time that I’ve heard about it, but I do commit to look into the issue and see if we can figure out what went on there.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Minister, you have a lot of looking to do. Chaos could have been avoided at École Napoléon if, a few inspections ago, a few years ago, the operator had been told, “You need to have a licence for doing this kind of child care work.” Now parents are facing this upheaval. They’re facing chaos. They’re trying to figure out how to pull their lives together. They’re trying to deal with their children who are upset. If the operator is willing to move quickly and comply, is your ministry willing to move quickly to licence them?

Applause.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: I appreciate the applause but I have a second part: Will you consider giving them a provisional licence if they meet the criteria so that the children don’t have to be moved out of the school?

Mrs. Liz Sandals: Thank you again for the follow-up. As I said, I have not been advised of this particular situation, so obviously I cannot make a commitment to take any particular next step. But I will absolutely look into this. The member has made a couple of suggestions that may prove useful. I will ask my staff to look into those particular suggestions as well.

WORKPLACE SAFETY

Mr. Steven Del Duca: My question today is for the Minister of Labour. Minister, Ontario’s construction industry is an important part—a crucial part, in fact—of our economy. At a time when we need more apprenticeships, more jobs and a stronger economy, construction companies continue to positively invest in our province.

In my community of Vaughan, construction workers play a particularly important role, building our neighbourhoods from the ground up. Unfortunately, this summer, we saw multiple fall-related injuries and fatalities in the construction industry. I also recall, of course, a very serious scaffolding tragedy that occurred on Christmas Eve just a few years ago.

Speaker, through you to the minister: With construction workers playing such a crucial role both in my riding and across Ontario, what is our government doing to ensure the safety of our construction workers so that tragedies of this kind can be avoided?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I thank the member for the question and his commitment to the safety and the protection of all workers.

Speaker, when Ontarians go to work, we all want to make sure that they go home safely as well. Workplace safety is the Ministry of Labour’s number one priority, something that we work towards every single day. We are working hard to ensure that both employees and employers know their rights and are fulfilling their responsibilities. Therefore, we make sure that we are enforcing the law to its fullest extent.

For instance, the member mentioned the Christmas Eve tragedy that took about four workers’ lives. I’m proud to report that our government appealed the decision of the lower court, which had laid a fairly low fine. We were able to successfully increase the fine to the company to $750,000, the largest in Canadian history.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Steven Del Duca: I want to thank the minister for his answer and also for his continuing energy on this particular file. It’s very, very important for my community, for the industry and for our entire province. I am glad to hear that the Ministry of Labour and the minister are focused on ensuring the safety of workers on construction sites, particularly in relation to falls.

It is important that we continue to take these kinds of proactive steps to prevent avoidable accidents. Both my constituents and all people across our province should know what kind of measures they themselves can take to keep our construction workers safe on the job.

Minister, could you please speak to the two blitzes that you’ve mentioned and explain how these types of initiatives will benefit workers in our construction industry?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: The Ministry of Labour, as the member alluded, will be conducting a blitz on roofing awareness and fall hazards in the construction industry. These blitzes will focus on worker safety at heights and take enforcement action against those who fail to adequately train and protect our workers.

There are many ways to keep workers safe at heights and prevent them from falls through floor-opening covers, travel-restraint systems and fall-arrest systems. Enforcement during the fall hazards safety blitz will primarily focus on the implementation and effectiveness of these varied solutions.

We will also be checking that workers using fall-protection equipment have adequate training, as well as ensuring that guardrails and covers are adequately maintained to ensure that they are protecting workers properly.

Speaker, with these safety mechanisms in place in construction sites across Ontario, we believe we can make a difference in reducing injuries in our construction sector, and ultimately save lives.

TEACHERS’ COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: My question is to the Minister of Education. Despite telling us last spring that the reopened teachers’ negotiations from the legislative contracts wouldn’t cost us anything, yesterday you actually admitted that, after fiddling with those contracts, there would be a new cost—but you had no idea what it actually was. You said, “I want to get the accurate number,” so you “struck an implementation cost estimate working group.”

Minister, that’s why I asked the auditor to intervene. Yesterday and the day before, a senior education source told the Toronto Sun twice that the estimated cost could be as high as $500 million. I’ve publicly estimated anywhere between $300 million to $500 million once the unions’ demands for me-too clauses are implemented.

Minister, my questions are these. Why did you tell this House last spring that the enhancements were savings when yesterday you admitted what we knew all along: that it was going to cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars? And what kind of minister, during deficit financing, goes out and gives massive payouts to unions without knowing the true cost six months ago, still not knowing what the true cost is today?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Could we just clarify what the situation is here? In January, when we announced the savings that were related to the 2012-14 collective agreements, we announced that the savings were $1.8 billion. That continues to be the case, which is what I have consistently told you. We have found, since January, some additional savings related to the collective agreement, and that is the money that has been directed towards the enhancements.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Where did you get the money? People need to know.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: She just told you.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I just told you. When we found additional savings, they were redirected. The important thing here is that we have classroom peace because we agreed to have discussions with our—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Before you move on, I would like to remind everybody that questions are put through the Chair, and the answers are put through the Chair, which avoids some of the heckling responses.

Supplementary.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I can’t really appreciate that clarification. I feel as though I may have been misled, as has the public, given the responses that we have received.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Withdraw, please.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I will withdraw, Speaker.

The clarification is passing strange. I don’t know how you can have $1.8 billion in savings and then increase people’s gratuities at retirement, at maternity leave and at sick leave. Once again: The minister admitted to us yesterday in this House that she actually has no idea what the costs were this spring when she had a union giveaway to, I quote, her “friends.”

She has refused to provide me and this House with details after numerous questions—in letters to her and order paper questions—where I asked specifically for her to outline the $1.8 billion in savings and to outline exactly what those added costs were. She had said that she had peace in the education sector, yet we know that boards are still unable to sign agreements with the unions.

Back to her: Minister, why have your friends in the unions continued to obstruct local processes, even though you have given them exactly what they want, at a cost we have no idea—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Minister of Education.

Hon. Liz Sandals: Yes. I’m pleased to tell you that, as we had discussions with our partners, we absolutely had cost estimates at every point. The school boards challenged the cost estimates, we put together a committee to look at it, and in fact, our cost estimates were entirely reasonable.

In fact, we often found, when we got the information from the school boards, that the actual costs were less than the estimated costs. It is to the advantage of the taxpayer, I would say, that we have worked through the implementation committee process, because in identifying the true costs, we have actually found further savings.

NUISANCE BEARS

Mr. John Vanthof: My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. Liberal budget cuts to the MNR have resulted in the cancellation of the live trapping and relocation of nuisance bears and have left people with a 1-800 tip line instead. Over the summer, there have been several near-fatal human-bear encounters across the north. Northerners feel abandoned by the ministry and don’t even bother reporting problem bears anymore, since the ministry doesn’t offer any physical assistance anyway.

In a recent news release, the minister stated that “the ministry is currently in the process of reviewing more effective options” for dealing with nuisance bears. Could the minister tell northerners what those options are?

Hon. David Orazietti: I certainly appreciate the question from the member. The member is well aware, as a northerner—as am I—of the ongoing challenges. From year to year, depending on the specific circumstances in northern Ontario, whether there’s food availability with respect to a number of bears that are harvested each year, we have different circumstances in different communities. And in some communities, we have more prevalent issues than others. We’ve worked with those communities to ensure that we are giving them the assistance they need when it comes to supporting them and identifying their problems.

In fact, we have spent more money than any other jurisdiction in North America on our Bear Wise program, about $34 million to date, helping and assisting communities right across northern Ontario.

But I certainly do acknowledge with respect to the member’s comments that there are some communities in northern Ontario that are facing significant challenges around nuisance bears, and we’re committed to working with them to find more effective solutions.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. John Vanthof: Once again, to the Minister of Natural Resources: Northerners have been forced to protect themselves against nuisance rogue bears, and for those who aren’t equipped to do so, their option is to phone a friend or, in a life-threatening situation, call the police, and then the municipalities pay the bill.

Because of this government’s inaction or action, bears are increasingly seen as pests and marauders instead of the majestic animals that they really are.

Speaker, does the minister believe that ignoring rogue bears is good wildlife management, and is he willing to continue to put northerners’ safety at risk?

Hon. David Orazietti: Absolutely, we are not interested in seeing anyone at risk. Public safety is paramount in these circumstances.

What I think the member should be aware of is that at the time the Conservative Party cancelled the spring bear hunt in 1999, we introduced the Bear Wise program and we also extended the fall bear hunt so that relatively the same number of bears would be harvested each year.

In fact, just the other day I received an email with respect to Mayor Politis in Cochrane, in the member’s riding, in regard to a nuisance bear. The information that I have is that our bear technicians set up a trap with respect to this nuisance bear, which the OPP have identified as being a significant problem.

Our folks are out there responding where appropriate and when they’re being called to do so, but I’m certainly interested in working with the member opposite and other northern members to find ways—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

MICROBREWERIES

Ms. Helena Jaczek: My question is for the Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Employment. Our government has put together a strong plan to help people across this province, a plan that will create jobs and give all Ontarians the chance to succeed. One of the key elements in our plan is to work with businesses and renew support across a variety of industries.

Your ministry recently announced its renewed support by extending the Ontario Microbrewery Strategy for two more years to help create jobs and expand the industry.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the Minister of Economic Trade, Development and Employment: Could the minister please inform this House what this government is doing through the Ontario Microbrewery Strategy to help small brewers explore new marketing, training and tourism development opportunities across the province?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I thank the member from Oak Ridges–Markham for her great question.

I am pleased to inform the House of a recent funding announcement of $1.2 million in annual funding our government has made to renew the Ontario Microbrewery Strategy from 2014 to 2016. This will help Ontario craft brewers better market and raise awareness of locally made lagers, ales, pilsners, porters and the all-important stouts. These are brewers like Steam Whistle, Mill Street, Muskoka Brewery and Flying Monkeys Craft Brewery. A little known fact about these brewers is that they are the largest purchaser of Ontario-grown hops.

This investment will help the craft beer industry right down the supply chain. By extending funding for the microbrewery strategy, our government will help to support the success of this important industry. This funding will not only support brewers themselves but will lead to many spinoff jobs that these brewers create through their success in local agriculture and the hospitality industry.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Thank you, Minister, for your response. This is really exciting news for craft brewers across the province and especially in my riding of Oak Ridges–Markham, as we are host to a thriving brewery, the King Brewery in Nobleton, which I’m sure this House will be excited to hear recently won a gold medal in the Kellerbier category and the bronze medal in the Bock, traditional German style, category at the 2013 Canadian Brewing Awards. Ensuring that flagship sectors in Ontario like these continue to see support from our government will only keep our economy diverse while creating jobs for the future.

Mr. Speaker, on the day before Toronto Beer Week kicks off, when many of these craft brewers will have a chance to showcase their fine brews, through you, could the minister update the House on just how big the craft beer industry is in Ontario?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, that’s a great question, and I thank my colleague for the opportunity to speak to it.

Over the last eight yea