British Columbia Hansard — Monday, March 2, 2009

H0302pm-02

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session, 38th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Monday, March 2, 2009 Afternoon Sitting Volume 39, Number 2

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc Fifth Session, 38th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on. Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ...........................................................................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Deputy Premier and Minister of education and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy .........................................................................................h on. Shirley bond Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .................................................................................................. h on. Michael de Jong Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................. h on.

Murray c oell Minister of a griculture and l ands ..................................................................................................................................... h on. r on c antelon a ttorney General and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism .......................................................................... h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development ..........................................................................................................h on. t om c hristensen Minister of State for c hildcare ................................................................................................................................................. h on. l inda r eid Minister of c ommunity Development ............................................................................................................................. h on. k evin k rueger Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Gordon h ogg Minister of environment and Minister r esponsible for c limate a ction .......................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of Finance and Minister r esponsible for the o lympics .................................................................................. h on. c olin h ansen Minister of Forests and r ange ....................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ................................................................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport .....................................................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour and citizens' Services ................................................................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .........................................................................................................h on.

John van Dongen Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development and Minister r esponsible for the a sia-Pacific initiative .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...........................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker ..............................................................................................................................................................................Sindi h awkins Deputy Speaker .....................................................................................................................................................................k atherine Whittred a ssistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................Sue h ammell Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern l egislative l ibrarian ............................................................................................................................................................................ Jane t aylor l egislative c omptroller .......................................................................................................................................................................

Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................Penticton–o kanagan Valley bell, h on.

Pat (l) ...............................................................Prince George n orth bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................e ast k ootenay black, h on. iain (l) ......................................................Port Moody–Westwood bloy, h arry (l) ....................................................................................burquitlam bond, h on. Shirley (l) ....................................Prince George–Mount r obson brar, Jagrup (nDP) .....................................................Surrey–Panorama r idge c ampbell, h on.

Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, h on. r on (l) ......................................................n anaimo-Parksville c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c hristensen, h on. t om (l) ..................................................o kanagan-Vernon c hudnovsky, Dave (nDP) ........................................... Vancouver-kensington c oell, h on.

Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ............................................Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) ...........................................West kootenay–b oundary c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c ubberley, David (nDP) ..............................................................Saanich South de Jong, h on.

Michael (l) ................................... a bbotsford–Mount l ehman Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway e vans, c orky (nDP) ..................................................................n elson-creston Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................. Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain Fleming, r ob (nDP) ................................................................

Victoria-h illside Fraser, Scott (nDP) ...............................................................a lberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) .................................................. Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission h awkins, Sindi (l) ..................................................................k elowna-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-burrard h ogg, h on. Gordon (l) ......................................................

Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca h orning, a l (l) .............................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry ilich, o lga (l) .......................................................................... r ichmond c entre James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill Jarvis, Daniel (l) .................................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ............................................e squimalt-Metchosin k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ali, h arry (nDP) ........................................................................... Y ale-lillooet l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) ....................................................... Peace r iver South l es, John (l) ............................................................................c hilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke McGinn, Jenn (nDP) .........................................................

Vancouver-Fairview Mcintyre, h on. Joan (l) ........................................ West Vancouver–Garibaldi Mack ay, Dennis (l) ....................................................... bulkley Valley–Stikine n uraney, John (l) .............................................................. burnaby-Willingdon o ppal, h on. Wally, Qc (l) ........................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, hon. barry (l) .............................................................c hilliwack-k ent Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Puchmayr, c huck (nDP) .......................................................n ew Westminster r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, h on. l inda (l) ...................................................................r ichmond e ast r ichmond, c laude (l) .........................................................................k amloops r oddick, Valerie (l) ..........................................................................Delta South r outley, Doug (nDP) ......................................................c owichan-l adysmith r ustad, John (l) .......................................................... Prince George–omineca Sather, Michael (nDP) .........................................

Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ................................... Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, r ick (l) .................................................................. o kanagan-Westside t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, h on.

John (l) ............................................a bbotsford-c layburn Whittred, k atherine (l) ........................................ n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Wyse, c harlie (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo South Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant .............................................................................................. c omox Valley Vacant .......................................................................................Peace r iver n orth Vacant ....................................................................................

Vancouver-l angara liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-c layburn .................................................... h on. John van Dongen a bbotsford–Mount l ehman ...........................................h on. Michael de Jong a lberni-Qualicum .............................................................................

Scott Fraser bulkley Valley–Stikine ...............................................................Dennis Mack ay burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee burnaby-e dmonds ..........................................................................r aj c houhan burnaby-Willingdon .....................................................................

John n uraney burquitlam .......................................................................................... h arry bloy c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c ariboo South................................................................................. c harlie Wyse c hilliwack-k ent.....................................................................h on. barry Penner c hilliwack-Sumas ..................................................................................

John l es c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley..............................................................................................Vacant c oquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Diane Thorne c owichan-l adysmith ...................................................................

Doug r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South..................................................................................Valerie r oddick e ast k ootenay .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett e squimalt-Metchosin .........................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman k amloops ................................................................................c laude r ichmond k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ................................................................... a l h orning k elowna-Mission .........................................................................Sindi h awkins l angley.......................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca ....................................................................John h organ Maple r idge–Mission ....................................................................r andy h awes Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo-Parksville .............................................................h on. r on c antelon n elson-creston ................................................................................ c orky evans n ew Westminster .................................................................... c huck Puchmayr n orth c oast.......................................................................................

Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ............................................... k atherine Whittred n orth Vancouver–Seymour ...........................................................

Daniel Jarvis o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong o kanagan-Vernon ..........................................................h on. t om c hristensen o kanagan-Westside .........................................................................r ick Thorpe Peace r iver n orth ......................................................................................Vacant Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton–o kanagan Valley................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain ...........................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George n orth .......................................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Mount r obson ............................................h on. Shirley bond Prince George–omineca ................................................................. John r ustad r ichmond c entre ................................................................................. o lga ilich r ichmond e ast ..........................................................................h on. l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ........................................................................... David c ubberley Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey–Panorama r idge ...................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ............................................................. h on. Gordon h ogg Vancouver-burrard ....................................................................Spencer h erbert Vancouver-Fairview .......................................................................Jenn McGinn Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington ........................................................David c hudnovsky Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ....................................................................................Vacant Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ......................................... Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria-h illside ..............................................................................r ob Fleming West kootenay–b oundary ........................................................ k atrine c onroy West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Y ale-lillooet ......................................................................................... h arry l ali Party Standings: l iberal 42; n ew Democratic 34; Vacant 3

CONTENTS Monday, March 2, 2009 a fternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 14091 Point of Privilege (Speaker's r uling)................................................................................................................................... 14093 Statements (Standing order 25 b) ........................................................................................................................................ 14093 SucceSS services for immigrants r . l ee Women's Memorial March and status of aboriginal women S.

Fraser Settlement workers in schools program J. Y ap Festival du bois D. Thorne Paul-Jean l avoie and Marc Pelech D. h ayer Sage birchwater c. Wys e oral Questions ....................................................................................................................................................................... 14095 u se of government staff for b.c. l iberal Party fundraising l. k rog h on. W . oppal J. h organ orca b ay donation to b.c. l iberal Party J. h organ h on. W . oppal c ost of Port Mann bridge project M. k aragianis h on. k.

Falco n Port Mann bridge toll contract b. r alston h on. k. Falco n r elease of interim report on Frank Paul inquiry M. Farnworth h on. W . oppal c ommunity l iving b.c. public relations contract J. McGinn h on. r . c oleman c hild care spaces in Whistler c. t revena h on. l. r eid Meat inspection regulations c. Wys e h on. M.

Polak Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................. 14101 l. k rog Point of Privilege (r eservation of r ight) ........................................................................................................................... 14101 r . h awes Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................. 14101 b. Simpson D. r outley

c ommittee of Supply ............................................................................................................................................................ 14101 Supplementary estimates: Ministry of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts (continued) S. h erbert h on. b. bennett Supplementary estimates: Ministry of t ransportation and infrastructure M. k aragianis h on. k. Falco n n. Macdonal d c. t revena M. Sather k. c onroy n. Simon s c. e vans c. Wys e J. h organ S. Fraser h. l ali

14091 MonD a Y , March 2, 2009 The h ouse met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Mr. Speaker: i want to remind members today that i understand there are a number of guests, so if we could keep the introductions fairly short. Hon. S. Bond: Sure. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. is that because you saw me get on my feet? There's a mes- sage in that. t oday in the gallery we are joined by the 20 outstand- ing winners of the second annual Premier's a wards for t eaching e xcellence and members of the selection committee for the award. a s you would know, Mr.

Speaker, the award recognizes the best teachers from across british c olumbia for their dedication to student achievement and learning. e arlier today i was really pleased to be joined by members from both sides of the h ouse as we celebrated the accomplishments of these teachers, who tonight will receive the second annual award at Government h ouse. Please join me in welcoming members of the selection committee and our 20 outstanding teachers. N.

Macdonald: i'd like to introduce ian Foss from Golden, b.c. h e's with the Golden and District Search and r escue. a s members will know, this is an incredible group of volunteers that has dedicated thousands of volunteer hours. Members will remember the miraculous rescue of three-year-old k ate Williams from a crashed plane some time back. That was Golden Search and rescue. ian has also done a wonderful job of representing search and rescue in the media during what has been a difficult week. h e's joined by r ozalyn Milne, and i ask the h ouse to please join me in making them both feel welcome here. Hon. M.

Coell: i have four guests in the chamber this afternoon: Diane and Gordon c ampbell and bev k issinger from c ommunity l iving Victoria, and Stacy k uiack. Would you please make them all welcome. S. Herbert: i rise today to introduce some constituents of mine and some constituents of the member for Surrey- Whalley. We had some trouble getting them into this h ouse because of what i believe to be some antiquated rules here. but they are here, minus tiaras and sashes.

Small steps towards a fuller appreciation of our province's great diversity. i'd like to introduce to the h ouse Mr. and Miss Gay Vancouver XXiX — brent Wildefyre and Jackie a Go-Go, also known as Mark Gueffroy and kurtis r eeves. We are also joined by the emperor and empress 5 of Surrey. That would be Wolfgang bang! and e lektra Quecha — be careful; she'll electrocute ya — also known as r ob n eyts and Sterling h argitt. We're also joined by the managing editor of Xtra! West, r obin Perelle. Finally, i would like to introduce….

Somewhere circulating in the h ouse today is the cornerstone of the c anadian court system with 40-plus years of community service embracing diversity. That would be the current reigning e mpress of c anada, ted northe, not to be confused with Queen e lizabeth. a ll the individuals i've had the pleasure of introducing are integral to their community for promoting diversity and understanding. Mr. and Miss Gay Vancouver XXiX represent the r hinestone Phoenix c harity Foundation, celebrating 30 years of service.

They are elected to serve Vancouver and the n orth Shore, raise funds for c ovenant h ouse and the Metro Vancouver Dream c entre to help end homelessness. a lmost there, Mr. Speaker. The empress and emperor 5 of Surrey represent the imperial and Sovereign c ourt of Surrey, which has been working to promote community understanding and diversity in the Fraser Valley for over ten years and has been raising funds for the food bank for those living with hiV and aiDS.

While they represent many of us here today, i and my colleague from Surrey-Whalley are their representatives. i would ask the h ouse to make them welcome and thank them for their service to their communities on behalf of b.c. Hon. W . Oppal: i want to introduce k aren blake, who teaches physical education, science, health and careers at David Thompson high school in my riding. She's an awe- some teacher, who has spent so much time with kids in the neighbourhood and at the school. ironically, she has a former student who's also an honouree here this after- noon. i'd like to ask the h ouse to make them welcome. C.

Trevena: i'd like to recognize some of the teach - ers who are up in the gallery. We do have, from Gold r iver, r osamund l atvala, who has been working with aboriginal education at Gold r iver Secondary and r ay Watkins elementary. [1340] but as she says, she couldn't do it without the very involved and long and dedicated contribution of n an Violet Johnson, who is here as her guest. n an Violet is an elder with Mowachaht/Muchalaht and is very much the heart and soul of the aboriginal education program that r osamund is here to receive the award for. So i hope the h ouse will make them both very welcome. Hon. J.

McIntyre: i would like for the h ouse to also acknowledge one of the very special teachers here today, who has won an award. n ot only is she a fabulous

british c olumbia Debates14092 Monday, March 2, 2009 teacher, doing her work experience and grad transitions, but she's from r ockridge Secondary, where both my children attended, and i actually knew her. i'd like the h ouse to welcome Susan a twood. She's accompanied by l inda h arrison, a youth worker. i just wanted to give my very special personal as well as pro - fessional acknowledgment of the great work they do at r ockridge and in West Van. R. Hawes: in the gallery are two of my constituency assistants, Janis butcher and Sharon k ihn.

Joining them is c hristopher butcher, Janis's son. h e lives in the Victoria area, has never been here to question period and is looking forward to watching the quiet and decorum and cooperative attitude that i'm sure will be in evidence here in a few minutes. c ould we make them welcome. R.

Sultan: i have two introductions. it's very appro - priate that on the day the Premier is making awards for teaching excellence in british c olumbia, we should have represented in the precinct and in the galleries 140 students from an institution which is among the best in our superb public school system in this prov - ince, h andsworth Secondary School in my riding. They are accompanied by their teacher Mr. Glenn Mack enzie and chaperones. Will the h ouse please make them welcome.

Secondly, also in the h ouse today are members of the insurance bureau of c anada, including Jim r obinson, George bozanin, k en k eenan, Phil Wynne, t am n arine, e lizabeth MacDonald, l indsay o lson, Miranda l ee and Serge c orbeil. Would the h ouse please make them welcome. R. Thorpe: on behalf of the Speaker and myself, i am very pleased to introduce to the h ouse, visiting the l egislature today from Penticton and Victoria, Jacinta Ferrari, c al Meiklejohn, Duncan Meiklejohn, c aitlin Meiklejohn and Jasper Meiklejohn. both c aitlin and Jasper are young aspiring authors from Penticton.

Would the h ouse please make them welcome here today. Hon. G. Hogg: l ast Friday after a sleepless night, the wonderful administrative coordinator from our office made her way to the hospital rather than to the l egislature and gave birth to a 7-pound-6-ounce daughter named k aelyn. Would the h ouse give their best wishes to k aelyn and to her mother, Julie Smart. Hon. I.

Chong: i wanted, as well, to take this opportunity to recognize an exceptional teacher in my community, r oger c onrod. r oger teaches at l ambrick Park Secondary here in my riding of o ak bay–Gordon h ead, and he teaches carpentry and career prep.

What has been noticeable about his program is that he has engaged the community. h e has engaged the private sector, where he has found opportunities for equipment donations, and he has parents and local business owners involved in this program. h e has done an exceptional job. a number of his students have gone on to operate successful businesses. i know that because he works so hard in his advanced woodworking class, he wholly supports our Wood is Good policy. i would hope the h ouse will please wel - come r oger c onrod. [1345] Hon. G.

Abbott: i have three guests in the gallery today from the h ealth Services world. They are Suzanne t aylor, who is the executive director of the drug use optimization branch of the pharmaceutical services division of the ministry. h ilary Watson is a student working on a pharmacy degree from the u niversity of Washington, and Pam Scott is executive coordinator, assistant deputy minister's office, pharmaceutical ser - vices division. i'd like to ask the h ouse to please make them all welcome. D. Hayer: a t this time i'd also like to introduce two teachers, Mr.

Marc Pelech from Sullivan h eights Secondary School, as well as Paul-Jean "P .J." l avoie, along with his wife n ancy c ampbell. Paul teaches at Johnston h eights Secondary School. These are two exceptional teachers who will be presented with the Premier's a ward for t eaching e xcellence later on today. Would the house please make them very welcome. Hon. K. Krueger: Mr. Speaker, mindful of your admonition to be brief, i didn't want to miss the oppor - tunity to introduce Sherry Stade, a recipient of the Premier's a ward for t eaching e xcellence from k amloops.

She taught all my children as they were going through school and continues to distinguish herself these many years later. She's here with her husband brian Stade. i ask the h ouse to make them welcome. Hon. T. Christensen: i want to join with the h ouse and invite them to join me in welcoming Sharon Mackenzie, who is here, as well, to receive the Premier's a ward for t eaching e xcellence. i have had the pleasure of actually attending Sharon's classroom.

What makes that unique is that it was at c oldstream Meadows seniors facility in Vernon, where Sharon takes her class for a three-month period — i believe it is — and where the students in grade 6 get to interact with the seniors. it is an excellent example of commun - ity engagement in education, something that Sharon takes to heart on a number of fronts. i would ask the h ouse to please join me in welcoming her. i'm thrilled she's here. Mr. Speaker: i'm definitely glad we were brief.

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14093 Point of Privilege (Speaker's Ruling) Mr. Speaker: h on.

Members, on February 24 the member for a lberni-Qualicum rose in this place on what he described as a matter of privilege, alleging that the Minister of a griculture and l ands misled the h ouse during question period on February 19 and 23, 2009. on Thursday, February 26, the Government h ouse l eader responded to the member's submission, and i've care - fully considered both the member's submission and the Government h ouse l eader's reply. i have also carefully reviewed the authorities quoted to the h ouse and the authorities on the law of privilege. before dealing with the substantive issue, there are one or two technical matters which merit comment. in a decision of this h ouse on July 21, 1993, and quoted with approval on July 15, 1996, one of the essential elements required when raising a matter of privilege is that a copy of the motion that the member intends to move, should the c hair find a prima facie case has been established, must be tabled. n o such proposed motion was tabled by the member for a lberni-Qualicum.

The Government h ouse l eader, in his presentation, also noted that the matter may not have been raised at the earliest opportunity, and i have considered this sub - mission as well. h owever, the substantive portion of the submission from the member for a lberni-Qualicum is what the c hair has focused upon in this matter. The essence of this allegation is that the member must establish that the minister deliberately misled the h ouse, a considerable burden which the member has failed to establish.

While there is currently a clear difference of opinion between the member and the minister as to the number of trees cut, the number of logs removed, the groups who were consulted and the end result of the logging operation, i am satisfied that this controversy clearly fits the category of a dispute as to facts, which in itself does not qualify as a matter of privilege. l et me remind all hon. members that an accusa - tion of deliberately misleading the h ouse is a serious accusation and must rest on a solid foundation. i find that the necessary elements have not been established to sustain a charge of deliberately misleading the h ouse, and i so rule.

Statements (Standing Order 25b) SucceSS S er ViceS For iMMi Grant S R.

Lee: l ast Friday night i joined other members of this h ouse at a fundraising gala for SucceSS. i had the opportunity to be part of the rather joyous and exciting night, and i know everyone had a good time. i want to thank the many organizers and volunteers who make SucceSS a success every day. [1350] i particularly want to recognize betty Funston, Joann Wong bittle, Dr. r aymond kwan, t ung c han and Peter kwok for their tireless work. i also would like to recog - nize members of the fundraising gala committee: r icky Wu, Johnny Fong, Michele kwok, Patrick l au, Sandra l au, k aren Woo and elsa Y ap.

There were great artists there to entertain guests, including c het l am, the two-time best folk artist of the year at the c hinese Music Media a wards; h a Yu, who won the best actor at the t Vb awards; a nnabelle l ouie; one of the leading singing coaches in Vancouver; r aymond Sham, whose "Song in the Wind" won an award at the First c anadian Songwriter Quest. Since 1973 SucceSS has promoted the well-being of c anadians and immigrants and encouraged their inte - gration into the community.

They do this through three organizations: SucceSS, S ucceSS Multi-l evel c are Society and SucceSS Foundation. burnaby has strong ties to SucceSS, and my constitu - ents benefit greatly from their services. They have taken a lead role in developing a strong sense of community. a nnounced last December, SucceSS was selected to manage and operate h illside Gardens and add 100 new units of subsidized housing for low-income or new arriv- als. i know they will make a positive impact at h illside Gardens by helping residents link into the community and receive the supports they need to succeed.

Will the h ouse please join me in celebrating the suc - cess of SucceSS. Wo Men'S MeM orial March anD Statu S o F abori Ginal Wo Men S. Fraser: on February 14 Victoria joined other major cities in honouring murdered women and indigen - ous people from across the province. i attended the rally organized by the students from the u niversity of Victoria and c amosun c ollege.

The purpose of the rally, which ended here at the l egislature, was to create awareness, grieve for the loss of the women, show support for the families, and remember the over 500 missing and murdered indigen - ous women from Vancouver island and all over c anada. h undreds gathered for the event, and as i marched, i realized i was becoming angry. i recalled how, as a fledgling Mla in this h ouse and a new a boriginal a ffairs critic in 2005, i had risen in this h ouse to bring attention to the same issue. i referred to the a mnesty international report of 2004 entitled Stolen Sisters, and i spoke of the missing and murdered women along h ighway 16, the highway of tears.

Since then, i and many of my colleagues have met with families and friends of the missing and murdered women,

british c olumbia Debates14094 Monday, March 2, 2009 and to a person, they feel the frustration of abandonment and frustration and outrage at the failures of the system to provide the resources necessary for justice.

The a mnesty report identified that social and eco - nomic marginalization of indigenous women — along with government policies that have torn apart families and communities, as well as the failures of policy and the justice system — as contributing to the entire problem. c ombine that with the worst combination of racism and sexism, and there is an expectation that societal indiffer- ence to the welfare and safety of indigenous women will allow the perpetrators, the predators, to escape justice. h ere we are four years later. i stand here raising the same issues again, and nothing has changed.

So i will paraphrase from my closing statement of four years ago. i suggest that if the missing and mur - dered women were from an affluent region of b.c. and involving non-aboriginal women, we would not need to march to raise attention. SettleMent WorkerS in SchoolS P ro GraM J. Y ap: This past Saturday, February 28, i attended a very unique event aimed at helping newly arrived immi- grant families.

The event was presented by Settlement Workers in Schools, or SWiS, and was held in my riding at h ugh-boyd Secondary School in partnership with the r ichmond board of education. l et's c onnect: School, c ommunity and Y ou was the theme, and the concept is very simple yet significant. t ypically, new immigrants arrive in c anada with young families. a fter all, it is the desire for a better life for their children that drives many to leave their homelands.

Schools are a natural point of entry for new immigrants and can provide a perfect venue to learn about and access services in their new environment. [1355] This was a day of workshops to help parents learn about a variety of services available to them. More than 20 infor- mation booths were on hand.

Whether it was health care, social programs, nutrition, child care services, sports activities, volunteer opportunities or e nglish-language training, there was something for every new immigrant family trying to figure out how to better settle into life in british c olumbia and, in particular, richmond. a bout 600 people, both parents and children, attended this event. l et's c onnect was supported by the r ichmond board of education, and for this i commend board chair l inda McPhail and her fellow school trustees. i'd also like to thank district administrator t ony c orrigan, who was the driving force in bringing the SWiS program to r ichmond and in organizing this day, which was a great success. i ask all members of this h ouse to join me in con - gratulating t ony c orrigan and the SW iS team in r ichmond for their dedication and commitment to help- ing new immigrants become better adjusted, informed and settled in our community.

Fe Sti Val Du boi S D. Thorne: Bonjour, mes amis . t oday i address the h ouse with the friendly French greeting you can hear on the streets of Maillardville, particularly at this time of year when Festival du bois is just days away. i am particularly proud this year as b.c.'s first and largest French c anadian settlement celebrates its 100th anniversary. Maillardville's rich history began when brave pioneers from Quebec settled on the shores of the Fraser r iver, bringing their music and their culture with them.

The largest francophone community west of Manitoba is the result, and the French language can still be heard in my constituency, which includes the community of Maillardville on the south slope of c oquitlam.

This coming weekend marks the 20th year for the Festival du bois, a folk music festival that spans cul - tures, generations and language. it attracts thousands of visitors who share in the joie de vivre with music of all kinds, dance, cultural workshops and a children's tent. a long with the lineup of amazing musicians repre - senting many cultures and favourite performers from past years, i'm especially looking forward to hearing the 60 young voices in the chorale des pionniers on Sunday at 3 p.m. i'm doing my best, Mr.

Speaker, with correc - tions from my colleague here, who obviously paid more attention in school than i did. These children, in grades 2 to 6, attend the e cole des Pionniers du Maillardville. This is your invitation to join me at Mackin Park in c oquitlam on March 7 and 8. The fun is contagious, and you'll soon be tapping your toes to fiddle music as you dig into tourtière, poutine and maple syrup. Merci. Paul -Jean la Voie anD Marc Pelech D.

Hayer: i rise today to speak of the foundation of our society — education. i wish to highlight two teachers from my home community of Surrey, who have dedicated their lives to our youth. Paul-Jean "P .J." l avoie and Marc Pelech are incredibly dedicated to education and to our kids, and Surrey is very fortunate to have them. a s a result of their tremendous talent, passion and innovation, i am pleased to report that they are both among the recipients of the Premier's a ward for t eaching e xcellence who have been honoured today here in Victoria.

Paul-Jean "P .J." l avoie is a teacher at Johnston h eights Secondary School, where he teaches student leadership and works to promote community participa- tion and healthy relationships within the school. a long with sporting activities such as the t erry Fox r un and breast cancer awareness, Paul arranges two

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14095 major drama productions and a dinner theatre event each year. h e works to ensure that teachers in the school have the resources they need to develop healthy relationships with students through his relationship a lways Matters. Marc Pelech teaches visual and media arts at Sullivan h eights Secondary School, where he creates a culture of student achievements and community engagement through student participation in civic arts projects. h is students worked with the b.c.

Dairy Foundation on a Drink More Milk campaign and are working with the city manager on local beautification and a culture cele - bration project. [1400] u nder his guidance, his students have also created a sustainable on-line resource for art teachers, parents and students interested in participating in applied arts. both these teachers are being awarded today because of their talent and passion for teaching. but most importantly, they have made a difference in hundreds of lives. They have fostered the most precious resource for our future, that being our children and youth. Sa Ge birchW ater C.

Wyse: t oday i would like to introduce a man who was born in Victoria, lived in t oronto and settled in the c hilcotin. Sage birchwater is a well-known and much- loved resident of the c ariboo-c hilcotin. Sage arrived in b.c. in March 1973 from t oronto with only a packsack on his back and a plan to head to bella c oola. Sage never made it past the c hilcotin plateau. in his farewell message to the readers of the Williams Lake Tribune, Sage said that he caught the bug and never left. h is friend Diana French called it hearing the drum- mer.

Whatever it's called, Sage joined the many others who call the c hilcotin their home. While the c hilcotin was supposed to be a short stop on his trip, Sage stayed to make this wonderful area his home. During this time he learned much about the people and places on the c hilcotin plateau and shared this knowledge with the rest of us through his writing. h e is the author of Chiwid; Williams Lake: Gateway to the Cariboo Chilcotin; as well as contributing to Ulkatcho Food and Medicine Plants.

Sage is also a journalist and has worked for the Tribune for almost eight years, covering hard news and human interest stories. h e is respected for his ability to tell the truth, share the fascinating and reveal the humorous side of life. a bove all, Sage is a storyteller. Whether he's writing about current events, history or the people and places of the c ariboo-c hilcotin, Sage brings his readers into the story, capturing their attention and imagination with his easy writing style.

Sage has won several newspaper awards for his stor - ies and photographs. h e has also worked as a trapper, environmentalist, educator and oral history researcher. i ask the h ouse to join me in wishing Sage birchwater well as he retires to take on new challenges. Oral Questions uS e o F Go Vern Ment Sta FF For b.c. liberal Part Y FunD raiS in G L. Krog: Documents obtained by the official oppos - ition show that in 2003 the then Finance Minister was using his government office and staff to coordinate an exclusive fundraiser for the b.c. l iberal Party at a Vancouver canucks game.

My question is to the Minister of Finance. is using a minister's office for raising funds for the b.c. l iberal Party a standard operating procedure in this government? Hon. W . Oppal: i assume that the document that the member speaks of is a document obtained as a result of a court order, an order made by Madam Justice bennett of the Supreme c ourt of british c olumbia. in those circumstances, it would be improper for me to answer the question, as it is improper for that member to ask the question. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. L.

Krog: Well, the minister is always one to criticize my law school education. l et me tell the minister. There is nothing at law that prevents this government from answering this important public question here in this h ouse today. These documents show that on March 5, 2003, well- known l iberal bagman l yall k nott worked hand in glove with the minister's office to coordinate this fundraiser. The Ministry of Finance is still sitting on a five-page list of donors who watched the game from a luxury box donated by John Mcc aw, owner of the Vancouver c anucks.

They refused to release it, citing privacy considerations. [1405] a gain, to the minister: is it acceptable for a govern - ment employee to organize a partisan political party fundraiser through a ministry office? is it or is it not a violation of every acceptable practice for ministers' offices and the minister's employees? a nd shouldn't the government know who the government's hand is out to? Shouldn't the public know who the government is seek - ing electoral favours from in the course of government business? Hon. W .

Oppal: The member well knows that these matters are matters that came before the Supreme c ourt of british c olumbia, and it is improper for anyone here to make reference to those matters.

british c olumbia Debates14096 Monday, March 2, 2009 interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W . Oppal: The documents that were apparently released were released pursuant to the order of Madam Justice bennett, and i'm not going to comment on those. Mr. Speaker: Member has a further supplemental. L. Krog: Well, for the benefit and information of the a ttorney General, the documents are available through Foi , if he cares to look himself. So they're public documents. it's very clear that the government's employee code of conduct absolutely prohibits this kind of partisan activity. The evidence is clear.

The former Minister of Finance was using his office to help raise funds for the liberal Party. h ow widespread is this practice? What steps will the Deputy Premier take to lift the lid off these b.c. l iberal Party activities in this l egislature? Hon. W . Oppal: it's the same question, and i'll answer it the same way. J.

Horgan: i have in my hand what is a public docu - ment released by the government of british c olumbia. i have it in my possession. i'm happy to give it to the minister on the other side. it's from l yall k nott, fundraiser for the b.c. l iberal Party, to an administrative staff person in the Minister of Finance's office. it says the following: "i am enclosing the names and contact information for the people who either attended the c anucks game on February 23 or sent cheques but were unable to attend.

Please note one list is marked contributors and the other list is marked attendees so Minister c ollins can tailor his response accordingly." My question to the minister: is it acceptable behav - iour to force public servants to do political work on the public dime? Hon. W . Oppal: The document submitted may or may not be relevant to the proceedings. The fact is that they are inextricably tied to the Supreme c ourt proceedings, so i'm not going to make comment. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. o rca b a Y Donation to b.c. liberal Part Y J.

Horgan: l et's see if we can try and get around this ethical blind spot that the attorney General has discovered. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. J. Horgan: i was ten years old, Minister. Wake up. it's 2009. i have in my hand…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Member, just take your seat for a second. l et's listen to the question and listen to the answer, please. c ontinue, Member. J.

Horgan: i have in my hand a document from e lections b.c., an organization that the minister may be familiar with. it discloses that the b.c. l iberal Party, on the 23rd of February, 2003, received a $3,000 dona - tion in kind from orca bay, the parent group for the Vancouver c anucks. That donation was a luxury box so that the member for Vancouver-Fairview at that time could take money out of business pockets to seek gain for the l iberal Party. it's clear. it's transparent. My question is to the minister.

Just after this hockey game, orca bay signed an agreement with the b.c. l ottery c orporation that improved the bottom line for that private company. c an the minister confirm that this sort of ethical behaviour is standard practice for the b.c. l iberal Party? Hon. W . Oppal: We will respect the principle of independence of the judiciary. The fact that the member opposite said…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W . Oppal: "We'll get around it this way," he said. Well, we're not going to get around ethical conditions and ethical issues this way. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

Members, everybody gets a turn to ask a question and, in turn, hear an answer. So we're going to just wait. [1410] co St o F Port Mann bri DGe Pro Ject M. Karagianis: on Friday the t ransportation Minister announced a colossal failure, the collapse of his privatization scheme for the Port Mann bridge. The minister failed to pull off the deal even after offering a $1.1 billion bailout to the project's financier. h is obses- sion with pursuing a private financing scheme means the bridge is greatly delayed and the costs have doubled.

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14097 Will the minister reveal to the taxpayers of british c olumbia how much money he's wasted so far on this dogmatic pursuit of a failed privatization scheme? Hon. K. Falcon: Well, actually the member's wrong — not one day of delay. What i can confirm, in fact, is that under this government we are building a $2.46 billion Port Mann bridge. What i can confirm is that we will be building a ten-lane bridge with dedicated bus lanes.

We will be moving forward with a project that will employ 8,000 british c olumbians. a nd we will be doing it in spite of the fact that the nDP have opposed it every step of the way. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Just take your seat, Member. The member has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: Well, you know, in 2006 this project was budgeted to be $1.5 billion. t oday the project is $3.3 billion and counting. So we were supposed to see pilings rising out of the river in 2008. h as that happened? n o, it has not. The project…. interjection. M. Karagianis: o h, one piling — one piling.

The minister cannot be…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Member, just take your seat. i can't hear you. Members, let's listen to the question. c ontinue, Member. M. Karagianis: Well, the minister cannot be serious about that. but listen. The reality is that the project is late, it's massively over budget, and the financing scheme has collapsed. This isn't just a failure, but it's an embarrass - ment for the minister… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. M. Karagianis: …and it's also a colossal waste of tax - payers' money.

My question to the minister is simply: will he reveal to british c olumbians the cost of this embarrassing failure? h ow much are we paying because he ignored the warnings, blindly pursued a privatization scheme, wasted time on his failed financing deal and pushed the costs through the roof? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. K. Falcon: Well, i can see that the nDP's under - standing of basic finance hasn't improved since the fast ferries. The fact of the matter is that when the project was announced in 2005 at $1.7 billion, it was made clear that that was in 2005 dollars.

There's a concept called time value of money, and i'm happy to walk the mem - bers through that. The fact of the matter is that the project has not doubled in cost, as they're always out there yammering on about. That's simply not true. The project cost is $2.46 billion. There is a larger bridge that is being built as a result of the competitive bid process. it is on schedule, it is going to get built, and, let me tell you, for the people that are stuck 14 hours a day in rush hour traffic, they appreciate the new Port Mann bridge we are building here in british c olumbia. [1415] interjections. Mr.

Speaker: it's going to be a long question period. Y ou might as well take your seat. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Port Mann briDGe toll contract B. Ralston: The minister mentioned the competitive bidding process. it's striking that on Friday afternoon the minister also announced that he had awarded a new and untendered contract to Macquarie, the failed bidder, to provide advice on financing and tolling. Y et Macquarie investment bank had failed to produce the financing for the Port Mann crossing. Does the Minister of Finance support this award to a failed bidder? Hon. K.

Falcon: The member could have pulled me aside and asked me that question so i could have actually straightened out his misperception, because we didn't say that we had awarded an untendered contract. We said that Macquarie was available, when we decide to pay them, to provide advice in an area in which they actually have tremendous expertise. Some Hon. Members: More, more. Hon. K. Falcon: i'll give you more. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister.

british c olumbia Debates14098 Monday, March 2, 2009 Hon. K. Falcon: i know, for the members opposite, that it would be rather striking to consider utilizing the services of a company that is world-renowned for their expertise in electronic tolling. i know that for the mem - bers of the opposition, that is a challenging fact. but the fact of the matter is that this is a great project with a great builder. i'll remind the members opposite that it's currently involved in building two major products in british c olumbia: the Sea to Sky h ighway and the Pitt r iver bridge, both of them ahead of

schedule and on budget. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. B. Ralston: Well, the minister's position is contra - dicted by the ministry press release, but that's, i suppose, small potatoes for this minister.

Section 4 of the t ransportation a ct speaks of the competitive bidding process. That's the way costs to taxpayers are saved. Mr. Justice brenner of the b.c . Supreme c ourt said in a case he decided: "When governments, for reasons of patronage or otherwise, apply criteria unknown to the bidders, great injustice follows." Will the Minister of Finance investigate the secret standards that led the Minister of t ransportation to award a consolation prize to the failed bidder Macquarie? Hon. K. Falcon: a gain, the member opposite com - pletely fails to understand what's happened. interjections. Hon. K.

Falcon: n o, i don't think you do, actually, Member.

Y ou see, what we have said is that on an as-needed basis, we are able to utilize the services of Macquarie Group. on an as-needed basis, should we need them, we can utilize them to provide some advice and expertise that they have that is unique in the fact that they provide tolling advisory services around the world, and we will have the ability to take advantage of that. but really, i think the issue here that is important is that i'm still trying to figure out the position of the nDP on this very important project. n ow, maybe we have an opportunity, because in 2007 the l eader of the o pposition said: "n ot this.

Wrong bridge; wrong time." i'd like to know if that's still the position of the opposition. i'll tell you what our position is. We're moving forward with the Port Mann bridge, 400 people are currently working on it, and we're getting it built. relea Se o F interiM rePort on Frank Paul in Quir Y M. Farnworth: c an the a ttorney General confirm that he has the Frank Paul…? The results of the Frank Paul inquiry have been sitting on his desk for the last 19 days. c an he tell this house when he intends to release it? Hon. W . Oppal: i do have the Frank Paul interim report. it's 445 pages in length.

We have to abide by the law before we release such a report. The inquiry a ct sets forth…. i recommend the i nquiry a ct for reading… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. [1420] Hon. W . Oppal: …for the members. We usually follow the law on this side of the h ouse. interjections. Mr. Speaker: a ttorney. a ttorney, just sit down. Members. a ttorney, continue. Hon. W . Oppal: The report will be released. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: it's been sitting on the minister's desk for 19 days. The minister said it was 445 pages.

That's a little over 20 pages a day, i think. i would have thought the a ttorney General would have been quite capable of reading 20 pages a day. l et me ask this question to the a ttorney General. Will he commit to this h ouse that it's released before the writ is dropped? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Just wait, a ttorney. Hon. W . Oppal: The members opposite can make fun of this and make light of it, but this is a serious report. it dealt with the death of a man who was in police custody. That report needs to be taken seriously, and we are…. interjections. Hon. W .

Oppal: it may provoke a lot of laughter over there, but i can tell you the report is not funny. it will be released. We have to go through all the…. interjections.

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14099 Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, a ttorney. Hon. W . Oppal: There are other ministries involved. There are privacy considerations to canvass. The law needs to be adhered to. We will release the report, and i can assure the member that it will be released before the writ is dropped. co MMunit Y liVin G b.c. Public relationS contract J. McGinn: My question is to the Minister of h ousing and Social Development.

People with developmental disabilities need help, not another public relations campaign from this govern - ment. o n February 6 this government posted a request for spin doctors to help c ommunity l iving b.c . with its image. Front-line services, not public relations, should be the priority. Minister, will you cancel this wasteful and unnecessary contract and invest in community support? Mr. Speaker: Just to remind members to go through the c hair, please. Hon. R.

Coleman: The member opposite might want to look at the budget and find out there's been a huge increase in funding for c ommunity l iving b.c. this year to deal with wait-lists and to deal with people on the front line. i might just read a little quote into the record here that might actually crystallize it for the members oppos- ite. "it's not often that i give kudos to the government, but at this particular time, i think we need to.

They've shown true leadership by listening to their commun - ity" — you don't like hearing quotes, do you? — "and responding to our needs." That is r ory Summers of the b.c. a ssociation for c ommunity l iving. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. J. McGinn: The most effective and efficient way to build public trust is to actually deliver the services that british c olumbians expect from their government. People with developmental disabilities should not be left waiting while the government's on another public rela - tions exercise. i ask the minister again.

Will you cancel this unneces- sary and wasteful contract and invest instead in front-line services for people with developmental disabilities? [1425] Hon. R. Coleman: This year the government is providing $52.4 million more to community living services in british c olumbia. The budget increase is going to help us to address the rising demand for clbc services dealing with the change from iQ 70 and the number of clients that are presently wait-listed with clbc. i think it's always best to not have us tell us what's important or what's right. l et me read another quote.

"The b.c. a ssociation for c ommunity l iving recognizes the current economic climate and is pleased…" interjections. Hon. R. Coleman: Y ou don't like hearing this — do you? Y ou just don't like hearing this. "…that the government understands the social and economic value of working towards its 'great goal' of building the best system of supports for persons with disabilities and special needs." That's exactly what we're doing. chil D care SPace S in Whi Stler C.

Trevena: The t eddy bear Daycare in Whistler is closing at the end of May, and the operators have told parents in a letter that it's because "the day care space will not be available during the 2010 o lympic period." l ast spring when the issue of child care in Whistler was raised in this h ouse, the minister of state advised parents to go to another centre, which is about 20 kilo - metres away. i'd like to advise the minister that that centre is closing, and the centre in Whistler is closing, and there is nothing available for parents in Whistler or the surrounding areas. i'd like to ask if the minister of state can give some advice to working parents in Whistler on what they should do about their child care.

Hon. L. Reid: i thank the member opposite for her question. This government continues to oversee the largest child care budget ever — an enormous sum of money. We continue to work with the individuals in Whistler, and i, in fact, have visited there many times in terms of addressing the recruitment issues, the retention issues, the real estate issues. We'll continue to work with them, because our chal - lenge is to continue to provide day care services across british c olumbia, and they continue to be in regular contact with our offices. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. C.

Trevena: t o the minister of state. i'm very intrigued that she's carrying on talking to the various communities in Whistler, because since she started talking we've lost 46 spaces in the community, and we don't actually have any space for parents who are looking for child care. The operators of the t eddy bear Daycare are a major company. They're Whistler blackcomb, which is part of

british c olumbia Debates14100 Monday, March 2, 2009 the intrawest group, and that company recognizes that child care is important for the community and for a suc- cessful business. in the letter to parents which was informing them of the closure, it actually says: "We realize that quality child care is essential to the success of the community." Whistler blackcomb recognizes it. b.c. c hamber of c ommerce recognizes it.

The board of trade recognizes it. but seriously, i think the minister is paying lip service to it. i'd like to ask the minister: if the o lympics is supposed to attract people to british c olumbia, what message is being given to families? The fact that these child care spaces are closing as we approach the o lympics — is this the minister's legacy for the o lympics, for the work- ing families in Whistler? Hon. L. Reid: a bsolutely, this government under - stands the importance of building child care space, which is why we've built 6,000 new child care spaces across british c olumbia.

We have invested $34 million in capital construction, and we continue to provide sub- sidies to 90,000 licensed child care spaces. That is double what it was when we came to government. Meat inSP ection reGulationS C. Wyse: on Thursday of last week i raised some questions with regard to the meat industry regulations and how they were affecting the industry itself. [1430] The Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport responded to those questions regarding those inadequacies. The minister missed the point. When the government introduced the new meat industry regulations, many meat-processing plants were shut down.

Production costs for meat producers have increased substantially, while hundreds of meat producers around the province have been forced out of business. My question to the minister is: how many process - ing plants were in operation before the regulations were implemented, how many have since closed down, and how many are now in production? Hon. M. Polak: First of all, i want to remind the member and all members opposite that this is a public health issue. The safety of the food…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M.

Polak: For those who do not think that the meat inspection regulations are a matter of public health, i might remind them of a small disease known as bSe and the devastating impact that it has had on popula - tions and on the meat industry. n ot only are the meat inspection regulations import - ant to protect public health, Mr. Speaker, but can you imagine the devastating impact on the meat industry in british c olumbia from one case of bSe? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, please take your seat. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M.

Polak: one case of bSe — that's all it would take to absolutely devastate the meat industry in british c olumbia. That's all it would take. i am absolutely appalled to think that at a time when we're trying to work with meat processors to strengthen the industry, to increase production capacity and pro - cessing capacity, those members would want to reject the safety of the public and the well-being of the meat industry in order to just score political points. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. C.

Wyse: The issue that is in front of the h ouse is a government that doesn't wish to respond to the sugges - tions that have been brought forward by the producers as well as the meat-slaughtering industry. There is no question that there have been increased costs that have been passed on to the producer. There have been increased costs that have been caused by transporta- tion, niche marketing, and the issues go on and on. The government across the way has passed this issue from a griculture to health to healthy l iving and Sport.

Where does someone from cranbrook, where does somebody from the k ootenays, where does someone from around the province approach to get answers? My question: will any minister commit to working with the meat producers and the meat-slaughtering industry to fix these regressive meat inspection regulations? Hon. M. Polak: The member is once again just dead wrong. This is a file that has been taken with great ser - iousness by those involved in public health, who are the same people who have been working with developing this since 2004 when it was implemented.

We're proud to work with the c attlemen's a ssociation and the b.c. Food Processors a ssociation. i'd be inter - ested to know: if the member is so concerned about the costs that have been present in the transition for the meat industry, where were the members opposite when it was time to vote on meat transition assistance pro - gram funding — $9 million? Guess what, Mr. Speaker. They voted against it — $9 million to help transition this industry. We will continue

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14101 to work with this industry so that we have safe meat products and a vibrant meat-processing industry in british c olumbia. [end of question period.] L. Krog: h on. Speaker, i seek leave to table two petitions. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. [1435] Petitions L. Krog: i have two petitions. They both relate to the same dangerous stretch of the island h ighway just south of n anaimo.

The first consists of 118 signatures calling on the government to improve the intersection of Spruston and the island h ighway. a nd the second, collected by k en Dixon, a community-minded citizen, consists of over 1,300 signatures calling on the government to install cement dividers and proper lighting, and to remove the southwest bluffs and install photo radar cameras in order to protect the people who travel on the island h ighway. Point of Privilege (Reservation of Right) R. Hawes: i rise to reserve my right to raise a matter of privilege. B. Simpson: i seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

Petitions B. Simpson: i have a petition signed by 1,527 residents of Williams l ake, 100 Mile h ouse and the surrounding area who are experiencing unsafe driving conditions due to lack of proper road maintenance as a result of deteriorating roads. D. Routley: i seek to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. D. Routley: This petition is signed by many of my constituents. They're concerned about the length of time british c olumbians must wait for weight-loss surgery, otherwise known as bariatric surgery, and the lack of choice that is available to them. M. Farnworth: i ask leave to make an introduction. Mr.

Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members M. Farnworth: Mindful of your comments earlier, i'd like to let the h ouse know that a teacher from a rchbishop c arney Secondary School is up in the gallery watching question period. So would the h ouse please make Mr. c hris Seppelt most welcome. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: i call c ommittee of Supply — for the information of members, continued discussion on the supplementary estimates, beginning with t ourism and, i think, moving eventually to t ransportation.

Committee of Supply Su PPle Mentar Y e Sti Mate S: Mini Str Y o F touri SM, culture anD the art S (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of Supply; k. Whittred in the chair. The committee met at 2:40 p.m. on Vote 42(S): ministry operations, $15,100,000 (continued). S. Herbert: We got some good discussion going on last day. i appreciate the minister sharing what he did. i've got a little

summary of a report, Building from Strength — Report and Recommendations from Arts and Culture: Building B.C.'s Creative Agenda. it's a summit that happened in 2006 with the former Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts, the member for r ichmond c entre. it's got something in here which i thought i'd read out, because i think it's important to get on the record and to make very clear why i'm so interested in this file and why the nDP is so interested in this file and what the government is currently planning on doing. The executive

summary states, basically: "a consistent thread throughout the day was the need to build on current strengths to affirm and develop the importance of the cultural sector to the province's economic prosperity and social health. The strength of the role played by the cultural sector in the province's economy was particularly stressed at that summit.

"a s the minister pointed out" — the minister at that time — "the most recent Statistics c anada data indicated that british c olum- bia was the third-largest producer of culture output in c anada, accounting for $5 billion, 4 percent of provincial gross domestic product." it goes on to quote from the minister, where she states: "but the cultural sector represents and contributes more than just money and jobs to our economy…. it's the very stuff that defines us as a society."

british c olumbia Debates14102 Monday, March 2, 2009 Then it says: "The meeting was unanimous in its belief that more resources, both public and private, are necessary to allow the province's cul- tural sector to flourish." Just to highlight, it says that more resources are necessary. it also says: "What was needed is a comprehensive, multi-year investment plan" — and underline multi-year investment plan — "that takes into account the relationship of arts and cultural activity to recreation, community development, education and the diverse cultures of the province." The delegates at that forum and in this report strongly supported sustained core operational funding, which would be required to ensure long-term growth and development of the sector. i know the minister certainly has made mention of that in the past as well. a question we finished off with the other day that i wanted to follow up on was the discussion of how many jobs this supplementary estimate of $7 million for arts and culture would be infusing into the community, as it has year after year because of the sustained funding.

Hon. B. Bennett: i find myself in pretty much complete agreement with the member in terms of the backgrounder that prefaces his question, specifically in terms of the importance of arts and culture to our indi - vidual communities and to us as a people. i'm certainly proud of everything that we have done on this side of the h ouse to support arts and culture. i won't go into the litany just from this current fiscal year, but it's quite substantive.

Just one example is the bc150 fund that was created — $150 million. it was created specifically to be ongoing and to help with sustainable funding for arts and culture. in terms of the specific question, we do have our staff working on the logistics of calculating how many jobs will come out of the $15.1 million. When we have that, i'll include it in a letter and give it to the member. S.

Herbert: Well, i did just a little back-of-a-napkin numbers, based on the average income of an artist in c anada, which is about $23,000. it works out to be quite a good-sized number of jobs in our province. i'll be looking forward to seeing those figures. [1445] i guess the reason i think it's so important that we get the numbers of jobs — the thousands of jobs that the arts and culture sector creates in the province…. i've got a couple of figures, ranging from 80,000 to 118,000 that the cultural sector has in this province. i am concerned, of course, with the cuts coming up that the minister has outlined in his service plan to the b.c. a rts c ouncil budget — the approximately 50 percent cuts in support. i think it's important we get these numbers on the table here so we can see what kind of devastation will be coming to communities that rely on arts and culture support for jobs and for community livability, because certainly slashing the budget by about 50 percent in 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 will have that effect. i would ask the minister if it will also be possible to share with me what other kind of money is leveraged into the arts and culture sector by the investment of this government.

Maybe there's a quick answer there, or maybe you'll need a few days to get that back to me. Hon. B. Bennett: Starting with the $7 million that's going to the b.c. a rts c ouncil. That is the first thing that comes to mind, if the member is interested in a list. i don't have an exhaustive list in front of me, but i can certainly provide the member some examples. i'd be glad to do that. in addition to that $7 million that we're discussing here today, there is $650,000 that's going to support the Juno a wards in Vancouver. That's provincial.

There's another $600,000 that's going to support b.c. artists participating in b.c. Scene in o ttawa this spring. There's $300,000 that's going to the c anadian c ountry Music a wards in Vancouver in September. There is $575,000 going towards the c ultural o lympiad. That, of course, is the cultural component of the 2010 games. There is between $18 million and $20 million — we cal- culate that for 2007-08, it was exactly $19.8 million — that goes to arts and culture in this province from the commun- ity gaming grants program. That's b.c. l otteries.

There was also the arts legacy fund that we created, the $20 million endowment in addition to the bc150 $150 million endowment. There's been $15 million go into arts and culture through 2010 l egacies n ow. Frankly, i could stand here and list lots of examples of provincial money going into arts and culture. of course, before i sit down, i should mention $50 million going into the Vancouver a rt Gallery. So there have been lots and lots of examples of this government supporting arts and culture in this province. S.

Herbert: i agree that there have been many examples of the provincial government supporting arts and culture in this province for many years. That's why i'm so con - cerned that the budget for the arts and culture department is planned on being slashed by 50 percent. a ll of these things the minister likes to talk about will be thoroughly threatened by his service plan which he proposes. i guess he missed the question and gave me a list. it's nice to know the list, because i think it speaks to the vitality that the arts and culture industry brings to the sector. but what i'm asking is….

This $7 million leverages other funding. That's funding from the c anada c ouncil for the a rts. That's funding from municipalities. That's funding from the private sector. i'm wondering if there's any estimation on the leverage. The reason i think it's important is that when the province cuts 50 percent sup- port to the arts and culture sector, as they're planning on

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14103 doing, you're also losing money for the province from the c anada c ouncil for the a rts. We look to Quebec. There's incredible leverage of funding.

The province kicks in this much, and the fed - eral government comes and kicks in this much. but here in this province it looks like we're going backwards. by not kicking in the same amount with the 50 percent cut in funding that this minister proposes in 2010-2011, 2011-2012, we're basically suggesting to other groups that the b.c. government doesn't support the arts in that way, so why should they. [1450] i was hoping i could get a figure from the minister about what kind of other investment the b.c. govern - ment's investment brings into the province — so from the c anada c ouncil for the a rts, from private sector, from foundations, from local governments — because that's all important in our understanding of how to sup- port the arts and culture sector.

Hon. B. Bennett: The member included a number of questions, really, in his statement.

With regard to federal funding, it's certainly my opinion that british c olumbia generally receives as much largesse from the federal gov- ernment as any other province in the country. in fact, i think we probably have one of the most, if not the most, constructive relationships with the federal government of any province or territory in the country. u nlike the way it used to be, when the province of british c olumbia was always bickering with the federal government and calling the federal government names in Vancouver and Victoria newspapers, we have developed, on the other hand, a very good and very constructive and productive relationship with the federal government.

So i do think that we get our share there in terms of infrastructure dollars. Some of those infrastructure dol - lars, of course, in this upcoming round of infrastructure funding, are going to be related to arts and culture and heritage, based on what the federal government has said about their budget.

We will ensure that we get our share. in fact, i've had meetings just recently, within the last two weeks, with a number of arts and culture groups in this province where i have volunteered my staff to assist them to ensure that they're able to provide the right kind of application for federal-provincial infrastructure funding, arts-and-culture type of infrastructure funding.

So i think we're on solid ground there. in terms of the $7 million that the member referred to — and, of course, that's the amount that we're actually discussing here in the supplementary budget — some of that money is leveraged after it comes out of the b.c. a rts c ouncil. it's up to the individual applicant organiza- tion or individual as to whether the funds are leveraged or not. So some is, and some is not. There may not be the opportunity to leverage it, but for whatever reason, some is and some isn't. The b.c. renaissance fund was all leveraged money, as the member is probably aware.

So that's, i think, a very good example of how you can leverage. Put money into the arts and culture communities across the province and require leveraging on that money. That's what we did in that case. The examples that i read out just a few minutes ago…. For example, the $50 million going into the art gallery — that's leveraged money. The art gallery will clearly cost a lot more than $50 million, but we've put $50 million in to get things started. There will be private money coming in there, and there may be other public money. i think that's true of the arts and culture community generally.

They find resources wherever they can, and i have a lot of respect for how well they do that. i agree with the member that we have to hold our end up, and that's why we're here discussing this supple - mentary budget. That's why we have made sure that in this next fiscal year the b.c. a rts c ouncil will, in fact, have the same amount of money that it had last year — even a little bump-up of about $800,000.

So i think all of the opportunities that existed for arts and culture groups and individuals in this past fiscal year will exist in the next fiscal year. in the meantime, over the next 13 months, i hope a couple of things will happen. i hope that the economy improves and that the interest rates will be somewhat higher for the bc150 fund. i mean, a bump of a couple of interest percentages or points would bump the number up from, say, $3 mil- lion to $5 million or $6 million. of course, if the economy improves, as it will, i am hopeful — even cautiously optimistic — that in out- years we'll be able to put something back into the budget, just as we're doing this year. [1455] c an i promise that right now, given the circumstances that the province finds itself in? n o, i can't.

What i can promise stakeholders in the arts and culture community is that i will do everything i possibly can to make sure that those out-years, the 2010-11 and the 2011-12, will be at least as good as this year. a nd this year, as i have said, is just as good as last year. So that's my commitment. S.

Herbert: Well, i think that's a longer answer for what i think is a short question, which is: how much money is leveraged? a s an artist, when i worked in the arts, i can tell you that quite often there would be foundations, there would be the c anada c ouncil, and they'd want to know that you had provincial support before they committed to give you federal support. So with the proposed 50 percent cut to arts and culture funding by this minister, we're looking at a lot less money coming in from across c anada, and that's going to hurt our economy.

We are going to see a loss of jobs with this proposal. but we're also going to see a net effect, a wider effect, of

british c olumbia Debates14104 Monday, March 2, 2009 a loss of jobs, because we see that the leveraged funding increases the opportunity for more jobs because of the federal funding. i'll just put that on the record. h opefully, the minister can come back and take a look at the lever - aging effect and get that in the letter to me. i understand it doesn't seem like he has the figures today, but it would be very helpful to have an estimate for the future. i found it interesting what the minister spoke about, about the out-years of 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 when he plans on cutting the budget by 50 percent. h e says he's going to do his best to put something back, just as we did this year. n ow, i would remind the minister that the legislation his Finance Minister brought in actually precludes any possibility of there being supplementary funding like this. it would actually be against the law, and it would have to go into paying down the debt.

This supplementary funding is a last time. This is really one time only because of the legislation that his Minister of Finance has brought in. So for him to suggest that is a bit rich and, i think, a little bit…. h opefully, it's not disingenuous.

Maybe he's got another pot of money somewhere else that he thinks he can dip into. but if so, i would have hoped to see it in the service plan. i remember, going back to last time when we were discussing this topic, that the minister struck out at my suggestion that President o bama had been supporting the arts and investing in the arts. h e said nobody's pro- jecting three years out. o bama's not projecting three years out in terms of support.

So i find it a little interest- ing that in his Minister of Finance's documents, he does project three years out. i seem to remember something about rural home - owners and how that would come into place in 2011. Well, that sounds to me like his Finance Minister was projecting three years out. So it's a little bit odd for me to see this service plan, which shows 50 percent cuts coming in 2010-2011, 2011-2012 — and of course, the core cut, which is this next year, 2009-10.

That is only being topped up by the supplementary funding right before an election and before they outlaw this practice of supplementary funding. it's a bit questionable, and i'd be interested in the minister's response to that. but so far whenever i ask a question, i don't get a straight answer.

What i get is a discussion of what the member has done in the past and what has happened in the past. i'm interested in what's coming up for the future, because arts organizations right now are putting together their budgets, they're put- ting together their fundraising plans, and they're putting together their programs for the seasons in the future. i've spoken to a number of large and small arts organ- izations, who basically are telling me: "is the government asking me" — asking them — "to program with less pro - gramming?" a re they asking them to plan for less staff? i guess my question is, first off, because i haven't heard the minister confirm it…. i would like to ask the minister: could he confirm for me that his service plan for his ministry shows that he plans on cutting the budget for arts and culture by 50 percent in 2010-2011 and 2011-12? [1500] Hon.

B. Bennett: i truly hope that the member is not going around Vancouver telling people that there is no possible way for the government to increase budgets for arts and culture and heritage — or anything else, for that matter, but in particular for arts and culture — in the out-years of a three-year budget cycle, which is what i think i just heard him say. i think i just heard him say that you can't do that.

For the benefit of stakeholders…. i've kind of given up on trying to explain this to the member, but if there are any stakeholders listening, it's important for them to know that even though you have a three-year budget cycle, you do have individual annual cycles within that. e ach year, whether you do supplementary budgets or not — the member is correct; there won't be any sup - plementary budgets in the future — you still have that opportunity in the annual budget cycle to change what you have forecast two years prior.

We will have an opportunity over the next 13 months to take a close read of what's happening in the economy and to increase the arts and culture budget, if we're able to do that, for 2010-11. Then we would probably take the same approach for 2011-12, depending on how the economy is going. Just to summarize, government is not prevented from increasing an annual ministry budget on an annual basis. That has nothing to do with supplementary budgets.

With regard to the member's question about those two out-years, i think the member has stated himself — and i have stated myself on a number of occasions, on this past Thursday and then so far here this afternoon — that 2010-11 and 2011-12 do contain the core reductions that that member has referred to. The actual amount is $7 million less to the b.c. a rts c ouncil in '10-11 and '11-12. Those are the two years that i'm committed to trying to find resources for as we go forward. S.

Herbert: i don't know if the minister was listening to somebody else, but i've never said that the govern - ment cannot increase the budget for arts and culture. in fact, i've been saying over and over that the government needs to give its head a shake, wake up and realize that this is a good investment. The b.c. a rts c ouncil's own study, as put out by the minister, shows that for every dollar the government has invested, they get $1.36 back in return.

The c onference board of c anada shows that it's much higher, more like $1.86. it's an investment, as the minister seems to agree but at the same time seems to argue. "Well, it's too bad.

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14105 it's tough times. We should cut the budget by up to 50 percent." o h, but he'll try and get the money back. Well, the government could have kept the funding there. That's a real possibility — could have kept core funding there. That's a real possibility. it's something the minister could have fought harder for. h e could have said: "We're going to go back to the table and put this money back." h e can still do that.

The budget hasn't passed yet. if he's really committed to finding that money, i'm wondering if he's going to go and ask his Finance Minister to put that money back. Hon. B. Bennett: The member, i'm sure, is aware that a goodly portion of the $7 million that we're discuss - ing today is the result of lower interest rates earned by the bc150 fund and the other legacy fund. if interest rates were where i think most people, not just in british c olumbia but in the rest of the world…. if they were where the experts thought they were going to be, we wouldn't be talking about $7 million.

We might be talk - ing about $3 million. That's a good part of what we're talking about. The discussion went way wider and broader than we intended it to, i guess, on Thursday, and it appears like it's going to go way broader than it should be going today. [1505] i've answered any question that the member has put forward with regard to the supplementary budget of $15.1 million. i'm happy to answer any specific questions that the member has about that $15.1 million. o therwise, i just don't see that we're making any progress here. S. Herbert: i've got to say i'm disappointed in the minister's response.

This is the minister who is supposed to be standing up for t ourism, c ulture and the a rts, but who's brought in a service plan which shows 50 percent cuts coming in 2010, 2011 and 2012. That's not grow - ing our future. That's smashing it to the ground, and i'm ashamed of what's going on in this h ouse. The minister could say that he's going to go to the Finance Minister to debate, could say that he's going to do that for the arts and culture industry, but there's no response. The minister wants a specific question; i will give him a specific question. The Chair: Member. Member. Point of Order Hon. T.

Christensen: Point of order, Madam c hair. i understand that the supplementary estimates are before the h ouse. a budget was introduced a couple of weeks ago. i understand that if we're able to get through the supplementary estimates and vote on those, there will be some future opportunity to debate the budget. Perhaps the c hair could direct the member to keep his com - ments to the supplementary estimates so that we can get those completed. C.

Evans: h on. c hair, i just wanted to congratulate you on this debate, which i hear as precisely on the subject of supplementary estimates and how they will develop and grow and as allowing people on the out - side to see exactly what the supplementary estimates are about. i heard the questions about: would there be future…? So i think you're running a great debate, and you don't really have to worry how these two gentlemen are running it. The Chair: Thank you, Members.

The c hair has allowed, i think, considerable latitude during the entire supplemental estimate debate. h owever, i do take the comments of the Minister of c hildren and Family Development. i believe that the recent comments are, in fact, straying away from the debate on the supplemental estimates. So Member, if you would keep your remarks relevant to the supplementary estimates. c ontinue, Member. Debate Continued S.

Herbert: a rts groups are asked repeatedly to think ahead and plan for the future. is the minister advising them — based on his service plan and this one-time-only supplementary funding before the massive cuts come in 2010, 2011 and 2012 — that they should be planning on cutting staff and programming that they provide to this community? Hon. B.

Bennett: n o, actually, it's not me that's going around the province spreading doom and gloom within the arts and culture budget with the obvious intention of earning political points. it's not me that's doing that. it's that member over there that's travelling around the province here for the last two weeks spreading fear and gloom and doom amongst the arts and culture commun- ity, and he's doing it purposely, strictly to gain political points in his own riding, where he has a lot of voters who are in the arts and culture community. h e's trying to do it for his political masters, the nDP party.

Member, if you want to hear the truth, that's the truth. n ow, you've mentioned tourism. i've heard your radio clips, and you mentioned tourism again. Y ou haven't asked one…. The Chair: Minister. Minister, through the chair. Hon. B. Bennett: h on. c hair, the member has men - tioned tourism a number of times both through the media and here. n ot one question on tourism. Does the n DP care about tourism? n o. They don't care about tourism.

british c olumbia Debates14106 Monday, March 2, 2009 We've more than doubled the budget for tourism. What did the member's leader say in 2005 when we said that we want to give them more hotel room tax? The member's leader said: "n o, we don't want to give t ourism b.c. more hotel room tax." So the member shouldn't lecture me about funding tourism or about funding arts and culture, because this government's record stands up against the record of the nDP govern - ment from the 1990s very, very well. S.

Herbert: i think it's interesting that the minister would suggest that it's me running around the province spreading doom and gloom. l ast time i checked, it's his ministry's service plan which is spreading the doom and gloom, because this minister has watched over while the arts and culture budget has been gutted by this government. it's not me spreading the doom and gloom. it's this document signed by the minister that's spreading the doom and gloom. a nybody can look it up themselves. [1510] The journalists phone.

They want to know about it because this minister claims that everything is fine. l ast time i checked, the numbers in here are not fine, accept- able or going to do anything except devastate our arts and culture industry. So for the minister, i remember. i looked through the Hansard last time. h e said: "Stop sending e-mails. Don't tell people about this." i'm telling people about it because it's wrong, and it shouldn't happen in this house. i ask again to the minister: how many jobs…? a rts groups are just like business groups.

They plan more than one year in advance, and because the minister's only got supplementary, one-time-only funding before massive cuts come in his own plan, i'm asking him what they should do to plan for the future. Should they be planning on a budget increase? i don't think so, based on his numbers. What should they be planning for? budget cuts? Should that be what they're planning for, Mr. Minister? Hon. B.

Bennett: The member continues to insist that he hasn't said what he has said within the arts and culture community. i read into the record last week — i won't bother doing that again; i think i read it in twice — what he said about the $15.1 million, which is the supplementary budget, which is the topic of our discussion here in the h ouse this afternoon. The member has said that the facts don't bear out that this $15.1 million is going to help the arts and culture community.

That's just wrong, and he shouldn't be saying it. i can say, for the member's benefit, that in 2007-08 this government…. in addition to the funding that went through the b.c . a rts c ouncil, in addition to $50 million into the art gallery and in addition to the bc 150 legacy fund of $150 million, we put $19.8 million — this is just in 2007-08 — into the arts and culture community through b.c. l otteries. That will continue into the future.

We also, just a few days ago, announced another $6.2 million that went into the arts and culture community through the b.c. a rts c ouncil, and 90 different com - munities received that money. We put $350,000 into grants to 20 different arts organizations in n ovember, just a few months ago. That was made possible by the province's $150 million bc150 cultural fund. in September we put $100,000 into the Vancouver Symphony orchestra. That included their a sia tour. it was actually $250,000 in total, i think. in September of this past fall $600,000 went to 600 b.c. artists who are participating in b.c.

Scene. a lso in September 270 artists and organizations received $7.1 million in that round of b.c. a rts c ouncil grants. For the member to suggest that we are abandoning arts and culture in this province, given the investment that we have made, given what we are doing with this supplementary budget and given my commitment and the government's commitment to try and improve the budgets, going forward, for those out-years…. They are 13 months away. The axe doesn't fall, Member. The axe doesn't fall tomorrow.

We've got 13 months to try and improve the situation. i've made a commit - ment to try to do that, and i will follow through on that commitment. S. Herbert: Well, where i come from, the ultimate commitment is doing what you say you're going to be doing, and this is the service plan that shows what the minister is going to be doing. The budget of this govern- ment shows what they are going to be doing.

So i think it's a bit rich for him to say: "That is our commitment. i will pledge for 13 months that i will look around and try and find the money." if he could do that, it would be in here. i hope that there's something that we can do, because on my side, i'm saying: "r estore the funding." i'm saying: "t alk to your Finance Minister right now, and restore the fund - ing." Y ou don't need to wait 13 months to do it. Y ou could go talk to him right now.

Y ou could tell him you're going to resign if the funding is not returned because you care that much about the sector. [1515] The Chair: Member, we've already, i think, spoken of the appropriateness of that line of questioning. So if you would move on, please. S. Herbert: i'm wondering if the minister could explain to me what good things happen in communities across b.c. because of this $7 million. i don't need the list. We've heard i don't know how many times now about what they did in the past.

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14107 c an you tell me what this $7 million will do for your community? Hon. B. Bennett: i'm going to make a point that i have made already. i'm going to make it again, not so much for the benefit of the member, who i suspect already knows this, but for the benefit of anyone in the arts and culture community.

When you project out three years with a budget, you have the year that is right in front of you, and obviously, you have to get that right. if you have the capacity for a supplementary budget like we do this year, you can make some change just before you go into that fiscal year. h owever, with the two out-years, you have opportunity through the annual budget cycle to change those budgets. For the member to suggest that they are frozen in stone and that they are not going to change is wrong. it's worse than wrong; it's actually disingenuous. it's a deliberate attempt, i think, in my opinion, to frighten people.

The member has used the word "rich" to describe my commitment, and that's fair enough. This is the venue where we say these kinds of things. i do want to remind the member of what he said. This is what he said. This is a quote from his newsletter, February 20. "The Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts has suggested that the provincial government is providing an additional $15.1 million for arts, culture and heritage. This statement is not backed up by the facts." That's what the member said. i'm not making this stuff up. This is what the member said.

The member is deliberately going around this province trying to frighten people, and i just don't see how that can be constructive. The member asked me, you know, how the $7 million was going to help in communities, but he doesn't want me to give any examples. That's an interesting way to put the question. i can stand here all afternoon and read out how the last $6.8 million that was awarded a few days ago — i think it was Wednesday or Thursday of last week — will be distributed. i know that…. i think the member just inquired as to how the money is going to be spent in my riding. i believe that was his question.

Some of the money…. i know there was a grant that went to the c anadian Museum of r ail t ravel, which is one of the top railway museums in n orth a merica. The curator, Garry a nderson, is a person of heroic pro - portions. h e deserves enormous credit for what he's been able to create in the city of cranbrook. There is also money going to the Fernie a rts c ouncil. i'm doing this from memory. There is a second grant going to cranbrook to the Symphony of the k ootenays. There are grants, frankly, going to a lot of the small towns — many, many small towns — and big towns all across the province.

That $7 million that the b.c. a rts c ouncil will distribute will also go across the province. h ow they will spend it…. a s i stated very clearly last week on a number of different answers that i gave, that money is spent by the b.c. a rts c ouncil the way that they think is best for the arts and culture community in this province. They adjudicate all of the applications, and they pay out on the basis of a rational, fair adjudica- tion. We don't tell them how to spend the $7 million. S.

Herbert: it's just interesting that the minister is trying to pick a fight with me when i'm trying to talk about the future that's coming for arts and culture in this province under his leadership. it's his own service plan now. h ave i ever said: "i t's never possible to increase the budget"? n o. in fact, in the question and the statement right before, i told him that. i told him he should do it now, and he should commit to doing that. h e should talk to his Finance Minister, but he won't do that for some reason that i can't understand. [1520] The Finance Minister won't invest in the arts and cul- ture industry. i can't understand that either, especially when every study that i've read and the studies that the minister has referenced in the past support that view — that it's an investment for the future. it's an investment in jobs. it's an economic stimulus. e arlier he said: "Why don't you ask me about tour - ism?" because this is actually about arts and culture, Minister.

This is about heritage, Minister. That's what this supplementary debate is about. if you want to talk about tourism, we can have a town hall or something like that, but that's not what this is about today. i'm talk- ing about arts and culture. h e suggested that it was wrong for me to suggest that this was not additional funding for arts and culture. Well, if the minister looked at his own budget, he would understand that the core funding for b.c. a rts c ouncil has been slashed in this upcoming fiscal year, and they're replacing that funding.

That's not additional funding, in my book, when you replace something you took away. The minister has rightly pointed out that there's a small bump-up. So i'll give him that.

There's been a small bump-up this one time only, before the axe drops next time around because of what the minister suggests is the right way to go forward in his service plan. n ow, under here in his service plan, it talks all about the great things we're going to do for arts, culture and tourism. it talks about how we're going to be building so that companies are sustainable. i don't get how one- time-only supplementary funding before the axe drops under his service plan is going to help him do that. it doesn't make any sense to me or anyone in the arts and culture industry. i appreciate the minister speaking about his constitu - ency and what difference the arts and culture make in his constituency. i think it's about $83,000 which goes

british c olumbia Debates14108 Monday, March 2, 2009 directly to some of those local groups, and i'm glad about it. Why i mention it is because i want the minister to recognize that under his plan, that funding will be severely restricted — about 50 percent under 2010, 2011, 2012 — because of the cuts that he's bringing into this ministry, unless something else happens, which he could be doing right now. h e could be changing that forecast right now, but he chose to sign off on this document.

That's his commitment for the future. i'd like to ask the minister how this one-time fund - ing and then massive cuts in 2010, 2011 and 2012, as outlined in his service plan, make arts and culture organizations sustainable over the long term? Hon. B.

Bennett: c learly, to use the member's own words…. h e said: "i don't get it." i don't think he does get it. i don't think that he gets what it's like to be responsible for the taxpayers' money, to go into a fiscal year projecting a huge surplus and to find, a few months before the end of the year, that not only are you not going to have your huge surplus, but you're going to be challenged to even balance the budget. The decline in revenue to the province has no pre - cedent. There is no precedent for what we've just gone through and are still going through in n orth a merica with the economy.

When in late fall we realized what was happening — it was like a train speeding up going down a hill; it just seemed to get worse every day that went by — all of the ministers in this government took it upon themselves to see what they could do to help out, to make sure that we did balance this year's budget but also to make sure that we were able to fund the core services that we provide in this province. We've increased the health care budget in this prov - ince every single year that i've been here as an Mla — eight years in a row.

Y ou know, i always hear mum - bling when i or any other member on this side of the h ouse mentions that we've increased the health care budget. Frankly, you've got members of the opposition, including the leader, running around the province right now.

She was in k elowna today or yesterday saying that we're cutting health care. i mean, it just seems like they believe that if you repeat a fabrication often enough, people will believe it. [1525] We went through an exercise that's very difficult, i can tell you. it's like the experience that you go through, husband and wife and family, when all of a sudden, one of the husband or wife loses their job. Y ou have to basic- ally sit down at the kitchen table and decide what you are going to be able to continue to do until you find that second job again.

We went through that exercise this fall and also in January, and we found $1.9 billion within our ministries. in my case we found some savings in tourism adminis - tration and in travel — my minister's office, for example, and senior staff travel — and in some statutory type of advertising.

We didn't reduce anything having to do with marketing tourism in the province, but we found some money in those other categories, and it wasn't enough. it wasn't enough to allow government to support the essential services that the taxpayers of british c olumbia expect from their provincial government such as health care and education, both k-to-12 and advanced edu - cation. This is certainly no time to be reducing our investment in training, going into a difficult economic time like this.

This difficult economic time will be a time when workers will want to go back and finish up their apprenticeship or go further with their training. c are and services for children, care and services for disabled adults — all of those things are extremely important to the people of british c olumbia.

That is not to minimize the importance of the environ- mental aspects of our life in b.c., or the arts and culture aspects of our life here in british c olumbia or any other aspect of our life here in british c olumbia that the prov- incial government is involved in. it's not to minimize the importance of those things at all. it's just that when you're elected to govern, you're elected to make difficult choices.

So we have made some difficult choices. n ow, we were fortunate in the arts and culture com - munity that even though we had to make that difficult choice, we were able to find $15.1 million that we could use to provide a sustaining three-year budget for herit - age — something they haven't had for a long, long time — and the $7 million that we're giving to the b.c. a rts c ouncil to keep them whole throughout 2009-2010.

Given the economic climate that we're in — to be able to go through that exercise that i just described and collaborate with my colleagues in cabinet and in caucus and make those difficult decisions — i think, frankly, that this is a much more positive scenario than what it could have been. Going forward — again, to repeat myself, for the benefit of any arts and culture stakeholders that are out there…. c ertainly, they have my 100 percent commit - ment that i will see what i can do about that $7 million going forward in 2010-11 and 2011-12. S.

Herbert: Well, i appreciate the statement from the hon. minister, but it really leads me to believe, from what he's said, that he doesn't see supporting the arts as a core investment. h e doesn't see investing in arts and culture as wise economically, even though he says it is. based on his actions, he's shown that he does not appreciate that, especially now in a time of economic trouble.

The arts and culture industry is one of the best invest- ments you can make at this time for building the economy, for a creative economy, for the future of this province. basically, the minister refused to answer my question about how one-time-only funding, before massive cuts, makes arts and culture organizations sustainable over

british c olumbia DebatesMonday, March 2, 2009 14109 the long term. e ven though that's his stated goal in this document, they don't jibe, because i guess he under - stands that it can't.

There's no way that what he plans to do to the arts and culture industry is going to make it sustainable over the long term. o therwise, he would commit right now to fighting to put it right back, right now. but he won't do that. it will be sometime in the future: "Maybe we'll try." i think we've got to look at his own government's facts and the c onference board of c anada's facts. investing in arts and culture is one of the best things you can do in a recession, if not the best, because of the economic spinoffs for local economies. h e spoke earlier about the wonderful benefits that arts and culture play for local communities. r ight on. r ight on.

That's what we need to hear, but it needs to be backed up by facts. it needs to be backed up by num - bers, and by that i mean dollars — not cuts, not the axe knocking at the door. i guess the minister is suggesting that arts and culture organizations need to be preparing for layoffs in the future. They need to be preparing for fewer programs. i'm already hearing from arts and culture organizations, who are telling me that they are planning for that. [1530] if the minister was going to actually come through for them, he would have come through. but he's justified it by saying that he's protecting the core.

Well, that's old-style economic thinking. That's not understanding the benefit the creative economy is playing right now in this province — one of the number one job creators; one of the real lead- ers in leveraging funding from across the country; and one of the leaders in making sure that people have work and that communities are healthy, communities have enjoyment, communities get to know themselves.

That's what the arts are about to me. i wish it were the same for this government, but it's not. [S. h ammell in the chair.] This has been an absolute failure of this government — failure to act for the future and putting us back, oh, prob- ably about 20 years. i heard a local arts organization put out a song recently, "t otal e clipse of the a rts," which talked about how we're putting us back into the 1980s in terms of supporting arts and culture.

That's what it does here. i'm disappointed that the minister wouldn't answer that question. i'm disappointed that he wouldn't come forward and say that he commits that he will resign if he cannot get that funding increased, because really, as a rts and c ulture Minister, he says he's committed, but maybe not to threaten his own seat. That's disappointing to me. i've got a whole bunch more questions, but i haven't gotten, really, any answers from him, e

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0302pm-02
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0302pm 02
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	b4f806acbf762cb9ad8c1924b41ded529cef3ee9

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