December 15, 2010 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 50

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Today the Chair would like to welcome the following members'

statements: the hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi; the

hon. the Member for the District of Bay of Islands; the hon. the Member for the

District of The Straits & White Bay North; the hon. the Member for the District

of Cape St. Francis; the hon. the Member for the District of St. John's South;

and the hon. the Member for the District of The Isles of Notre Dame.

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I stand in this hon. House today to recognize and congratulate

Battery Radio on receiving a Silver World Medal at the 2010 New York Festival.

Mr. Speaker, Battery Radio received this award for two of their radio

documentaries: The Annotated Jack and Abraham's Diary .

A portrait of a community set in a small Outer Battery twine store in St.

John's, The Annotated Jack tells the tale of two Jacks. One Jack, Mr.

Speaker, I am sure is familiar to all hon. members as the well-known hero in

many traditional Newfoundland and Labrador folk tales; the other is a retired

fisherman who spins yarns of his youth from his fishing stage.

Mr. Speaker, Battery Radio was also honoured for Abraham's Diary and

received a finalist citation at the festival in New York. This feature was

produced for CBC Radio's IDEAS, and tells the tragic story of two Inuit families

from Labrador who were exhibited in European zoos 130 years ago.

Mr. Speaker, the New York Festival recognizes the world's best work in radio

broadcasting, and winning programs are chosen and voted on by international

judges. More than thirty countries competed this year, and Battery Radio has

done Newfoundland and Labrador proud with this impressive showing.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating Battery

Radio on their honours at the New York Festival and wishing Chris Brookes and

his company all the very best in the future.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LODER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity once again to recognize

the volunteer fire departments in my district for their deliverance of fire

protection in our various towns.

Mr. Speaker, these women and men spend tireless hours training and time away

from their families. They are on call twenty-four seven and do not know what

they are going to face when responding to a fire or a medical call.

Mr. Speaker, I would like identify each and every firefighter. Obviously, I

do not have the time, but I will identify the fire chiefs in each department:

HIS, Chief Rick Parsons; Meadows, Chief Colin Tucker; Gillams, Chief Cecil Kerr;

McIvers, Chief Dave George; Cox's Cove, Chief Wayne Payne; Mount Moriah, Chief

Paul Butt; Town of Humber Arm South, Chief Glenn Savard; and York Harbour-Lark

Harbour, Chief Bill Sheppard.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask all members here today to recognize these local

heroes and all firefighters throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate Anika Eddison, a

fifteen-year-old Grade 10 student of Bayview Regional Collegiate in St.

Lunaire-Griquet, who recently won a Netbook for her winning entry to a

competition that was designed by the Career Development Partnership Initiative

of the Great Northern Peninsula and Southern Labrador. The competition was open

to students from twenty-two schools to examine the importance of local

businesses. There were sixteen entries.

The purpose of the competition was to try to connect industry with youth and

to make them aware of the opportunities in their local communities. Anika's

500-word essay presented a well researched argument that you do not have to

leave the Province to find employment, and that small businesses benefit the

community and the people living within it.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House today to join with me in

congratulating Anika and wish her well in her future endeavours.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KEVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the Town of

Torbay on its Small Business Awards presentation. This year there were ten

nominees in three categories. This is the second year for the awards, and it has

grown from three nominees to ten.

Mr. Speaker, the award for New Business of the Year went to Janitorial Sales

& Support. Their growth is due to superior customer service provided by their

staff. Entrepreneur of the Year went to Shawn Butler. Shawn is the owner of

S.E.A. Contracting with sixteen full-time employees. This company is a strong

supporter of the local schools, donates to many different events, and is a major

fundraiser in the community.

Mr. Speaker, Existing Business of the Year went to Garland Auto Body. Much of

their growth and success is due to their owner Derrick Ryan's willingness to

stay ahead of the trends and continue learning new and innovative practices. The

Garlands are also a great supporter in the community.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members in this House to congratulate the Town of

Torbay for this year's winners and nominees for the 2010 Torbay Small Business

Awards.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of St. John's South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: I stand today to recognize Constable Sharon Warren.

Constable Warren has been selected as the International Association of Women

Police 2010 Officer of the Year. Constable Warren is the only Canadian police

officer to receive an award this year, and she is also the only officer from

Newfoundland and Labrador to ever receive this designation.

This award deserves the recognition of the House of Assembly, as Constable

Warren was selected for this prestigious honour from a field of nominees from

around the world. The Officer of the Year award recognizes police officers who

distinguish themselves in the areas of leadership, community service, mentoring

and excellence in performance in their policing career.

Constable Warren, I am proud of you. You have brought pride not only to

yourself and the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary but to the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Isles of Notre

Dame.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, on October 30, 2010, the sixteenth edition of

the Communities in Bloom National Awards Ceremony was held in Halifax, Nova

Scotia. I stand in this hon. House today to recognize the Town of Fogo on their

First Place award in the one to 1,000 population category.

Communities in Bloom is a Canadian non-profit organization committed to

fostering civic pride, environmental responsibility and beautification through

community involvement, with a focus on promotion of green spaces in community

settings. The Town of Fogo, under the leadership of Mayor Andrew Shea, has

devoted a great deal of time and effort to the preservation of the historical

features of their community as well as fostering many projects to enhance its

beautiful landscape.

This award came as a result of leadership, co-operation and determination. It

recognizes the collective effort of the residents of Fogo in demonstrating their

pride and interest in their community. Such recognition will further promote the

Town of Fogo and offer tourists yet another reason to visit their community and

to visit the historical Fogo Island.

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that this is the first community in

Newfoundland and Labrador to receive such an honour. I ask all hon. members of

this House to join with me in congratulating the Town of Fogo on their First

Place award in the National Communities in Bloom program.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today in this hon. House to inform my colleagues of a

trade mission to Greenland which took place in October. This mission was led by

Premier Dunderdale as Minister of Natural Resources, and myself as Minister of

Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, and included officials from both

departments. This mission was an opportunity to showcase Newfoundland and

Labrador's oil and gas capabilities and our highly-skilled service and supply

sector.

The provincial delegation also included the Newfoundland and Labrador Oil and

Gas Industries Association, companies such as PF Collins, A. Harvey and Company

Limited, the Marine Institute and Cougar Helicopters. Our Province has

previously participated in trade missions to Greenland and there have also been

multiple visits by Greenlanders to forge relationships in Newfoundland and

Labrador. In October, Mr. Speaker, we were able to further strengthen this

relationship and examine areas of mutual interest.

Meetings were held with a variety of key government officials, including

Greenland's Premier and the Premier's Executive Deputy Minister, the departments

of Foreign Affairs; Culture, Education, Research and Church Affairs; the Bureau

of Minerals and Petroleum; Finance and Industry and Mineral Resources. We also

met with Nunaoil, Nunaminerals, Royal Arctic Lines, Air Greenland and

TeleGreenland. Additional meetings were held by the organizations that also

traveled with us.

Our meetings centred on identifying partnerships, particularly in the oil and

gas sector. We also explored opportunities in the areas of education, broadband

communication, boat building, consumer products, and tourism. Cultivating new,

international opportunities for industry growth and development in the Province

is a top priority for our government, Mr. Speaker.

Given the experience and expertise gained over the last decade or so in

harnessing our oil and gas resources in a harsh-weather environment, the

linkages between Newfoundland and Labrador and Greenland presents an

extraordinary opportunity to collaborate and build on the strengths of each

other.

This is especially true as we assess future development in our country's vast

northern regions. As a gateway to the North, we can play a vital role in

research and development, in education, and service and supply needs. We are

confident that our world-class industry has a great deal to offer to support

Arctic development while helping Greenland maximize its oil and gas potential.

This in turn will contribute to the continued expansion of our already

successful oil and gas operations, while ensuring future economic growth and

prosperity for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement, and also the

update on this particular trade mission which took place in October.

Some people question sometimes the benefits of trade missions, and whether as

a Province we ought to be spending money engaged in such, but this member has

certainly always been a strong advocate for trade missions. It is pretty obvious

in some of the things that we have done through trade missions in the past

fifteen years, actually, the opportunities that have been realized and the

people who have gained and improved our economy, as well as the economies of

other places in the world, as a result of it.

One of the most known ones, I guess, would be the Qatari situation where our

Province, through our Department of Education and CAN, went out and secured a

contract, which has since been renewed, to provide educational training and

services to that particular country, and the benefits to employing our people as

well as the benefits that those countries receive from us.

Of an economic nature, I just saw in the newspaper recently, Mr. Smith, I

believe, opened a chocolate company down on Water Street here as a result of a

trade mission. He secured certain customers in the United States and mainland

Canada, which was very beneficial to him. It is great to see, very good to see,

and I would encourage the government to continue any opportunities that we do

have to take our training, our knowledge and our skills, and seek out

opportunities for our people to take those training resources to other people.

The only thing I did notice here - and it is not by way of criticism - the

only thing I did note was, I did not see any involvement here of CNA officials

as part of the trade mission. I noticed the Marine Institute were here, and CNA,

I am not sure if they were just overlooked in this particular announcement or

they were not there but I do believe that CNA does contribute. They have a lot

of training courses available, particularly when it comes to Aboriginal

trainings -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - which would be very useful, I would suspect, to the

people of Greenland. That is our understanding and I would certainly encourage

the minister, in the future, that they be included if they were to make this a

complete success.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.

It sounds like it was a very good trade mission to Greenland which took

place. I, too, applaud the government for continuing such trade missions. I

think it is extremely important when we are dealing with issues that are of such

an international nature, such as our oil and gas industry, and our fishery, that

we continue to have such trade missions.

I certainly was interested in the breadth of the groups, both business and

otherwise, who were involved in the mission. This is one area, Mr. Speaker, that

I think I would like to see included. We do have education being looked at,

broadband communication, boat building, consumer products, et cetera, but I also

think there are environmental concerns with regard to oil and gas, and that too

is an industry.

I am sorry to see that the Minister of Environment and Conservation and her

department were not involved in this. I would like to see this government put

more concern into the whole issue of our environment and to see it as being

essential to a lot of other things that the government is doing, such as oil and

gas exploration. So, I look forward to seeing that addition the next time the

minister has a report to make on a trade mission that has taken place.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in this hon. House today to recognize the

tremendous contributions that one of the most dedicated public servants we have

all had the privilege of working with, as he prepares to retire after thirty-one

years of faithful service to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Over

those last three decades, Mr. Speaker, this individual has served his tenure

with dignity, respect, and dedication.

Mr. Calvin Lake, who is seated in the Speaker's gallery today, is the Chief

Legislative Counsel for the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, a position

he has held since 1991, but Calvin has been working with the Department of

Justice since he was called to the Bar of Newfoundland and Labrador in 1979. A

native of Fortune, Calvin began his education at Haddon Academy before pursuing

post-secondary education at Memorial University and the University of New

Brunswick. However, it could be said, Mr. Speaker, that Calvin is an eternal

student of life, taking time every day to read scholarly texts, practise

languages, and enjoy the culture of far-off lands in France, Greece, and Italy.

Mr. Speaker, Calvin Lake's contribution to this Province's legislative

history cannot be overstated. Having served under all Premiers of Newfoundland

and Labrador, except Joey Smallwood, Calvin has played a pivotal role in

drafting many pieces of provincial legislation. With over 400 acts and

regulations, it would be difficult to find something his fountain pen has not

touched.

Mr. Speaker, the business of this House is to make laws. We are involved

daily in that role. For the members of this House who would not ordinarily know

it, and for those who are viewing from the outside, it is Calvin's pen that puts

government decisions and policies in the legal form, and he has done so for over

thirty years. That is a lot of bills, Mr. Speaker, that have been debated in

this House. For someone who has contributed so much to the agenda of this House

of Assembly, it is only fitting that he be here today.

However, Calvin's legacy will not just be forever etched in the pages and

pages of statutes and regulations he has crafted, but in the generations of

legal minds who follow him in the Department of Justice. Calvin has been an

inspiration, a source of knowledge, and an ever-patient advisor to the young

lawyers who seek his sage opinion every day. Lovingly referred to as The Oracle,

Calvin is always on hand to discuss and debate points of law and statutory

interpretation with ease.

Mr. Speaker, Calvin exemplifies the very best of the legal profession and has

shown professionalism and a dedication second to none.

I can honestly say that I have never come across an individual who so

perfectly embodies the words: a gentleman and a scholar.

Mr. Speaker, I ask my colleagues in this hon. House to join with me now in

celebrating and congratulating Calvin Lake as he embarks on his new journey in

life.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me great pleasure to respond to the Minister of Justice's comments

about Mr. Lake. I would wholeheartedly endorse them. Calvin Lake and myself go

back thirty-five years. We first met as students at law school in Fredericton,

New Brunswick. We had many happy evenings together, and a few debates across the

common room in the law school over various issues that we might be debating from

time to time. I am somewhat surprised about the reference to him not being here

when Joey Smallwood was here. He is not as old as Joey Smallwood's time. In

fact, I was very, very surprised that he was retiring as quickly as he is, with

all the youth and vigour that he has.

Everyone who knows Calvin Lake, of course - and I had the pleasure of having

him not only as a student and a friend, and friends today, I had the pleasure of

working with him in various capacities in this House, as an Officer of this

House, and when I was Minister of Justice, very closely. He has been a pleasure

to work with. He is, indeed, the consummate professional. He is, indeed, a

scholar when it comes to the law. Above all, he is a gentleman to all whom he

has ever met. I do not know of anyone I have ever met who has had anything nasty

or untoward to say about Calvin Lake. That is the man he is.

In terms of legislative history, I think he has had his fingers in just about

everything there is. We stand here day after day sometimes in the run of a year

debating legislation, but he is the person who puts it all together and puts it

in a form that is debatable here. His handprints and fingerprints are all over

the laws of the Province, of this land. People probably do not realize it, but

he is the person who takes all of these policies and initiatives, puts them

together, and they ultimately become the laws.

I wish and we all wish, here in this House of Assembly, him good health and

good happiness in his retirement. May you get to explore Europe and the other

foreign destinations far more, as you so much love to do.

Congratulations and happy retirement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am really pleased to be able to join with the minister in congratulating

Mr. Lake. While we have not had a lot of interaction over the last four years,

there has been some. I am sure there was a lot more when my predecessor was here

in this seat; because, of course, he was here for quite a number of years. I

certainly know Mr. Lake's reputation, and I also know the few times that I have

had to seek explanation of legislation, et cetera, that he was always there to

do that for us in our office, to do it willingly and cheerfully, and as the

gentleman that he has the reputation for being.

It is good for us to recognize the quality of our public servants. Certainly,

in the person of Calvin Lake we have somebody of very high calibre. I am sure

you are going to be a tremendous loss, not just to the government but to all of

us as you go on. You deserve where you are going. I, too, wish you all the best

in your retirement.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supporting the expansion of businesses, whether they are in the early stages

of development or well-established in their respective industry is the focal

point of the provincial government's business development agenda. It is a

results-driven agenda that is focused on having the right tools available at the

right time for businesses to capitalize on opportunities when they arise.

That is why the provincial government has employed a set of business

development programs that support the evolution of companies from start-up to

commercialization and from workforce development to improving operational

efficiencies.

Each program has proven to be effective and each has a distinct role.

Another function of our business development agenda is providing

entrepreneurs or start-ups with general guidance, such as: how best to prepare a

business plan; where to turn for financing; or studies on specific industries.

This may seem straightforward, but it is quite important in the progression

from idea to full-fledged business.

Recognizing a need to have the necessary resources available to help address

such queries, the provincial government, in partnership with the federal

government, supports the Canada Newfoundland and Labrador Business Service

Centre.

Business service centres, as they are more commonly referred to, can be found

in close to forty communities in the Province. Whether in Baie Verte,

Charlottetown, Forteau or Stephenville, each business service centre is

committed to providing business owners and operators with the information they

need to satisfy their objectives.

Mr. Speaker, the business service centres average more than 3,000 inquiries

annually. While each interaction varies, the scope of service offered includes:

one-on-one counselling; a library of business news; as well as skills

development learning sessions, such as lunch and learns.

Business service centres also work with economic development agencies,

Aboriginal development groups, municipalities, and community business

development corporations to provide information, training, and referral services

to clients. The Export Development Corporation, for example, provides access to

its expertise on export markets, and the opportunity to readily refer clients to

other sources for greater information.

Business service centres also work closely with staff from the Department of

Innovation, Trade and Rural Development's twenty-two offices. Together, they

provide clients with timely information and ensure they have the financial

resources to stimulate business expansion.

Mr. Speaker, greater knowledge and access to business development programming

significantly heightens the prospects for success. I encourage all potential and

existing business owners to tap into the vast knowledge and information that

exists.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

The Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Business Service network has a long

history. It was officially launched, I believe, back in 1999. The work that it

has been doing and the work that it continues to provide in the locations where

they are throughout the Province are very important.

We say time and time again in this House through statements and other avenues

that the small- and medium-business sector in this Province is very important to

our economy overall in Newfoundland and Labrador. This service network plays a

vital role there.

I have no problem with standing today and commending the government for the

initiative and the things they are doing. I would like to go back, just the

same, to the issue of high-speed Internet throughout rural Newfoundland. I know

it is a challenge to bring that through, so that it can be offered properly to

each community and so on; but, again, if we are to realize the opportunities as

small business in rural Newfoundland then it is very necessary that we do have

access to information, as the minister suggests, and one of those ways is

through high-speed Internet. It is particularly important and, again, anything

we can do as a government in this Province to enhance business opportunities

then it has to be looked on favourably.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

It is good to get an update on what is going on with the Canada-Newfoundland

and Labrador Business Service Centres. As has been pointed out, they have been

around for about ten years and undoubtedly have helped quite a number of

businesses in the Province, considering the 3,000 annual inquiries.

Because it has been around for ten years, Mr. Speaker, it would be

interesting to receive from the minister, at another time, some of the tangible

results that come from the business centres; not just the number of inquiries

that happen, but maybe what is the employment generation from the businesses

that do come to the centres.

I do not know if those statistics are kept by the centres or not, the revenue

generation that happens through the businesses because of their growth. I am not

sure, as I said, whether or not those business centres keep those kinds of

statistics, but it would seem to me to be a logical place where that information

would be kept. So, at another time I would love to hear that kind of an update

from the minister.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This morning the NLMA revealed the voting results from the Province's

doctors; 861 doctors voted and 86 per cent of them rejected government's offer.

Government clearly miscalculated, and the intention to divide and conquer the

Province's doctors was counterproductive and united them even more. You have

tested their collective resolve and have been found wanting. We know that you

have been meeting with the NLMA but they have been clarification meetings, not

official negotiations.

Premier, now that you know the doctors have overwhelming rejected your offer,

I ask: Do you intend to initiate discussions immediately to attempt to resolve

this matter?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think, as most people know, the Premier directed myself as President of

Treasury Board, and my colleague the Minister of Health, to re-engage with the

doctors, to attempt to reopen communications to see if we could find our way

clear to arriving at a meeting of the minds on a renewed MOU. We have had

numerous discussions with the doctors, we have had meetings with the doctors,

and our officials have been meeting as well. The discussions have been positive

and they have been cordial. As a matter of fact, it moved along a lot faster

than anyone anticipated.

We, in fact, came very close to a deal last night, Mr. Speaker. We are

continuing discussions today, and I am optimistic that as a result of those

discussions I am cautiously optimistic we can see a new agreement some time

this week.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The doctors feel that a vote against your government's deal was a vote for

binding arbitration. We have been asking that the doctors' issue be sent to

binding arbitration for months and your government has flatly denied this

request time and time again. The doctors have made a very fair offer and are

even willing to give up their right to strike in order to have this happen. They

do not want a work stoppage, but rather a resolution to the dispute.

I ask the Premier: In light of the overwhelming support from the doctors to

reject this offer, are you and your government prepared to give the doctors

binding arbitration to resolve this issue once and for all?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, as I have said in this House and I have said

in the media on a number of occasions, it is our responsibility to negotiate

major contracts on behalf of the people of this Province, not an arbitrator. We

are moving in a positive way to attempt to reach a new agreement and we will

continue with that process. The doctors did issue a press release this morning.

We are a little surprised at the tone of the press release given the very

positive and fruitful discussions that we have been having.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I will tell you quite frankly, we anticipated that we

would be announcing a deal today. I am optimistic that we will be announcing a

deal on behalf of the people of this Province; a deal that is responsible to the

taxpayers of the Province and also meets the needs of doctors, by the end of the

week.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Again, I say to the minister, the doctors have asked for - even in their

press release of this morning, it is a pretty simple question and it seems to be

a deal breaker or a deal maker here. Is this government prepared to give the

doctors binding arbitration? In fact, they want it enshrined - they do not just

want it done to resolve this dispute - they want it enshrined in legislation so

they never have to go through, and they never have to put the people of this

Province through, this again.

Minister, it is a pretty simple question. Either government is prepared to go

there and give them binding arbitration or you are not. Which is it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not going to negotiate the terms of this contract on the floor of the

House of Assembly. We met this week. We met Monday; we had discussions Tuesday;

we had discussions this morning. Dr. O'Shea and I are going to have another

discussion tonight. When there is a deal, I will be happy to let you and,

through the House of Assembly, the people of this Province know what that

arrangement is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Salaried specialists working side by side are not receiving equal pay for

equal work. As a result, at least fourteen specialists have resigned from

Eastern Health. This will be particularly devastating to the Janeway and all

children in this Province who may require medical treatment. In the last week or

so the government has found its kinder, gentler side.

Given that the doctors' line in the sand is quite clear, for the sake of the

people will you now make a special effort to ensure that as many of those

specialists who earlier said that they were going to leave will, in fact, be

encouraged to stay here so that we do not have this harm inflicted upon this

population?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is a lawyer; he has negotiated

a lot of contracts. He knows that we are not going to negotiate the terms of

this contract here on the floor of the House of Assembly. As a matter of fact,

the hon. member sent a note over to my colleague, the Minister of Health,

congratulating us on meeting a deal.

We are negotiating a deal. We are cautiously optimistic we will get a deal

this week, one that will be in the best interests, not only of the health care

system of the Province, but one that is responsible to the taxpayers of the

Province. When we do have a deal, we will announce it in this House of Assembly.

I am sure the Premier will announce it, and that way the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador will see exactly what it contains.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The issue of the fourteen resigning specialists is not just a matter of

contract negotiations. These are people who are fed up with the disrespect they

have been shown by this government and decided to take their skills elsewhere.

It is a side issue, albeit it may be intertwined, and that is why I put it to

the minister: Are you prepared to put in the special effort to help get these

people to stay here?

Mr. Speaker, my final question is to the Minister of Health and Community

Services directly. Government and Eastern Health have acted irresponsibly during

this doctors' dispute. Ms Vickie Kaminski did not follow her own bylaws and

placed complaints against the fourteen doctors who submitted their letters of

resignation. Minister of Health, of all things that you have said and done one

of the most shocking, of course, and shameful was the fact that you released

personal information about Dr. Julia Trahey.

I ask the minister - I asked last week - in the interest of trying to get

good faith back into this issue, resolve this, and let everybody move forward on

a positive note, are you prepared to publicly apologize to that doctor today,

Dr. Julia Trahey, and have Eastern Health withdraw the complaint (inaudible) -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Approximately two weeks ago, under the mandate of our new Premier, we

reopened discussions with NLMA. We indicated, Mr. Speaker, to them that these

would be very open discussions and that we would talk about everything.

I can indicate, Mr. Speaker, that we have talked about everything. Over

Chinese food the other night, we had a very frank discussion, myself and the

Minister of Finance, along with Dr. O'Shea and Mr. Ritter.

Everything has been very cordial, and I can say to the member opposite that

we have discussed everything. We feel that we are very close to a deal, and we

recognize the importance of these specialists. We have talked about the

specialists, and they have certainly been a topic of discussion.

At the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, if we are able to resolve this, the whole

matter will be resolved.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

I say, Mr. Speaker, starting with an apology for something that was obviously

and clearly inappropriate would be a good start to good faith.

Mr. Speaker, my next question is for the Premier. The day after the Muskrat

Falls deal was announced, the President of Emera participated in a conference

call with analysts. We obtained a copy of that tape that he had, and had it

transcribed. Chris Huskilson was asked about the price of the power Emera is

getting from Nalcor. Here is what he said, and I quote: I hate to use it this

way, but, essentially, the power will be zero priced so the energy will flow

into the system without a cost specifically related to the power.

He went on to say, it is only going to cost

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member, who knows the rules of the House quite well, that

he is not to read directly from quotes, or read directly from anything written,

but paraphrase it when asking questions.

I ask him to pose his question now.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: My question for the Premier, Mr. Speaker, is the

following: It has been admitted now by the CEO of Emera that the power is free.

Why are we giving Emera free power from Muskrat Falls if it goes ahead?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I say over and over again that Emera is going to get 20 per cent

of the power from Muskrat Falls. For that, they will pay 20 per cent of the

capital expenses, Mr. Speaker. They will pay 20 per cent of the maintenance and

20 per cent of the operations.

Perhaps the Acting Leader of the Opposition could explain to the people of

the Province why Emera - I know they are a very good company, an ethical

company, a good company, but - why they would want to give the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador $1.2 billion for nothing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

It is a pretty simple answer to that, Mr. Speaker, because we are going to

give them thirty-five years of free power. That is a pretty good reason why you

give somebody an investment and build yourself a line that you can suck whatever

profits you want out of the backs of the taxpayers of this Province. That is

why, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier has admitted that it is going to cost $143 per

megawatt hour to bring the power out of Muskrat. That is assuming there are no

cost overruns. On the day this deal was announced back in November, the price of

hydro power in New England, where we are supposedly going to sell some of this

stuff, was $51 per megawatt hour.

I ask the Premier: Where is the profit? Where is the profit when you have to

sell Muskrat power at a third of what it is going to cost you to produce it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I am going to persist in trying to

explain this to the Acting Leader of the Opposition, despite any reservations I

might have about his ability to understand.

First of all, Mr. Speaker, our first and primary responsibility is to provide

power to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. We have to be able to meet the

demand in this Province, and we have to be able to do it in the cheapest way

possible. We are required, through Nalcor, by law, to do that. The cheapest way

of meeting our forecasted load demand, Mr. Speaker, is to develop Muskrat Falls.

So, on that very stand-alone issue, Mr. Speaker, this is a good project.

Now, Mr. Speaker, there are two other dimensions (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is not only about this member trying to understand it, and the Premier

certainly has not gone near far enough to get across any valid point that she

attempts to make here. There are 400,000 or 500,000 people in this Province who

still do not understand what you are trying to do here.

Now, Mr. Speaker, a number of times the Premier has talked about the

operating costs of Muskrat Falls. She has left the impression that Emera is

going to pay 20 per cent of all operating costs: the generating plant,

transmission lines, and everything. To quote her predecessor: Nothing could be

further from the truth.

Perhaps she should speak to the President of Emera because on the same tape

he is certainly under the impression that his company is only responsible for

the transmission costs of the free energy, nothing to do with Muskrat Falls. Of

course, those costs will be passed on

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member, if he has a question, to pose it now.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: My question to the Premier, Mr. Speaker, is: What is

the real story here? If they have free power and you are at odds as to who is

paying for what cost, who is really paying for what share of what cost on this

project?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, it is hard to answer the Acting Leader

of the Opposition because he contradicts himself even in asking the question.

They are paying for free power. They are giving us $1.2 million because they are

paying for free power. He is not making any sense to anybody in this House, and

I am sure he is not making any sense beyond.

Mr. Speaker, back to the first question, it makes sense for the people in

Newfoundland and Labrador. Then, Mr. Speaker, we can sell one terawatt of power

for thirty-five years for $1.2 billion starting at $95 for that power - over

twice what is being sold in New York today, using your own information. Mr.

Speaker, then we have the capacity to bring 1.9 terawatts of power to the

market, either in Atlantic Canada or in the United States; therefore, realizing

more profit. (Inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Yes, Premier, you are going to sell 143 megawatt power down in the States for

$51. That sounds like real good mathematics that does real good mathematics.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in this House the Minister of Finance said bonds on

the Muskrat Project would probably sell out in fifteen minutes, according to the

people he has talked to. I dare say they would with the taxpayers of this

Province backstopping them and guaranteeing them. Those are pretty good

guarantees. That is not the same as saying that this is a good deal for the

people of the Province. In fact, the people of this Province have backstopped

too many bad deals.

So I will ask the question again: How much equity is this government putting

into the Muskrat Project, and how much will have to be borrowed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, we are going to put $2.9

billion into this project. The difference between that and $4.4 billion will be

put in by Nalcor, the rest will be put in by Emera.

As I said, we are going through some sensitivity analysis to determine, what

is the debt-equity ratio that will provide the maximum benefit to the people of

this Province? This deal, Mr. Speaker, will provide us with lower hydro rates

than they otherwise would have been. They are going to light up our communities,

they are going to light up our homes for the next fifty years. They are going to

diversify our economy so we get off oil and rely on clean, green, hydro power,

and we are also going to be able to sell surplus power into the Maritime and US

market that is going to provide a half a billion dollars a year to the people of

this Province. What better deal than that?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, today we will be debating a private member's resolution on

long-term care and supportive services for this Province. In light of this, I

have a few questions I would like to ask the minister.

Mr. Speaker, this government has been criticized for their long-term care

strategy, or lack thereof. They announced a strategy back in February 2008, yet

it was two-and-a-half years later before the consultations began. The

consultations were announced in the middle of this past summer and started just

a week later, which is far from the best timing. Many people feel, Mr. Speaker,

and rightfully so, that you make a very poor effort in notifying people and

advertising.

I ask the minister: Now that the consultations are completed, nearly three

years later, when can the seniors of this Province expect the strategy to be

rolled out?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

From 2004 to 2010, this government spent approximately $116 million in the

development of long-term care facilities throughout the Province, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: In Budget 2010 an additional $42.7 million was allocated to

continue, and/or complete the development of these facilities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, we had consultations this summer, which we will

talk about a little later on today. Twenty sessions were held in nineteen

communities across the Province, of which I conducted six or seven, and the

Parliamentary Secretary conducted the rest. Five hundred and fifteen people

attended the public sessions, 108 people presented directly, there were

forty-three written submissions, and I conducted six round-table discussions.

So, it sounds to me, Mr. Speaker, like there is a lot of consultation that went

on, there has been a lot of investment, and we will develop the strategy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Issues related to the long-term care and community support services are very

important to the people of this Province. Seniors, their families, and others

who rely on these services will be impacted by the government's direction and

decisions. This strategy should be brought forward for debate to determine if it

is the best one for the people of the Province.

My question to the minister is this: Will he commit to bringing the long-term

care strategy to the House of Assembly and allow it to be debated before the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, there is a process that we engage in, in

development of strategies in which we have done successfully in developing and

implementing numerous strategies. There is background work that goes on in the

department. We assign teams to look at it; there can be horizontal initiatives

between departments. We then consult publicly as we have done here and then we

consult with experts along the way. We, currently, Mr. Speaker, in the

Department of Health and Community Services have a dedicated team of at least

three to four people who are working on nothing else but the development of this

strategy.

Once the strategy is developed, we will implement it. There has to be a

costing of it. What we have done, Mr. Speaker, and what the people of this

Province have to realize is that all of the money that we have invested over the

last period of time to developing our long-term care facilities, to building new

facilities, state-of-the-art facilities that I would suggest are equal to

anything in this country; that we are way ahead of the game and the strategy

will (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I assume the answer to that question is no, it will not be debated in the

House of Assembly.

Personal care homes play an integral

part in providing long-term care

services to the seniors of our Province. The personal care home association of

Newfoundland and Labrador represents about forty of the smaller homes and eight

of the larger homes in the rural areas of our Province. Recently, they did a

survey of its members and they say the average cost that government pays to

subsidize the residents living in their homes is eighty cents per hour. In the

last five years, the owners have lobbied government to address this subsidy

shortfall but to no avail.

I ask the minister: Why are you refusing to provide a fair subsidy to these

personal care homes?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I can only assume that the member opposite is

getting a lot of his information from the president of this association who was

an unsuccessful Liberal candidate in the last election. Mr. Speaker, this

individual had an opportunity to present, as did this group present on numerous

occasions at the long-term care consultations.

There are ninety-eight personal care homes in the Province, Mr. Speaker, with

a capacity of 4,010 beds. There is a vacancy rate of approximately 28 per cent.

There is a business viability question relating to some of these smaller homes.

Since 2004, this government has increased the personal care home subsidy rate

from $1,172 to $1,717, an increase of $584.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: So, for this particular group, Mr. Speaker, to say that this

government is not doing anything for them is incorrect. The reality is there are

larger personal care homes and people are (inaudible) to go into them.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if that was an admission of

discrimination against people of a different political colour by the minister

but it sounded to be that way.

Compared to the rest of Atlantic Canada, personal care homes in this Province

have the lowest subsidized rate, the highest minimum wage, the highest staff to

resident ratio, and all of these things are controlled by government, yet they

are compensated at the least. As a result of this, the association believes that

four or five small personal care homes will be forced to close their doors in

the next couple of months.

I ask the minister: Is this government prepared to continue ignoring this

budget shortfall for personal care homes, and, if so, what are your plans for

the seniors who will be displaced because of this closure?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I can again repeat for the member opposite,

that this government has increased the personal care home subsidy from $1,172 to

$1,717 in a period of six years. What we are dealing with here is an issue of

business viability. A lot of these homes, unfortunately, have less than fifteen

to twenty beds and there are very high vacancy rates. We heard from these homes

during the long-term care consultation sessions. They outlined their concerns

but what we have to look at, Mr. Speaker, is providing the best level of care.

What we are seeing or the trend that we seem to be seeing in this industry is

that homes are now being built with more than fifty beds. It appears that the

greater the number of beds the lower the subsidy required to run a viable

business.

Mr. Speaker, part of this is as a result of the natural evolution of the

personal care home and it is something that we are working with. We have worked

with all of these individuals and we will continue to work with them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday government introduced changes to the Fishing Industry

Collective Bargaining Act with respect to the fish price setting panel.

Currently, there are thirty-five producers who are not members of the

Association of Seafood Producers and therefore have no formal standing in the

collective bargaining process on a given species despite the fact that

legislation requires them to pay the costs associated with this process.

I ask the Minister of Fisheries: Why will you not go further, as indicated by

previous ministers over the past five years, to amend the act to allow these

small processors access to the collective bargaining process?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, the guidelines and policy around bargaining and

collective bargaining in this Province is around the companies that represent

the majority of processors in a particular species; for example, crab, Mr.

Speaker.

SPNL seems to have been making much representation to the Opposition in the

last week or so. A number of the questions that have come forward seem to be

directed from Mr. George Joyce. I do not know what the motives are, Mr. Speaker,

but I have met with Mr. Joyce on two or three occasions and I am more than

willing at any point to sit with Mr. Joyce and see what things we can amend. We

are about making a better fishery and more improvements. Any time he wants to

request a meeting with me, I am certainly open to doing that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is not about Mr. Joyce; it is about the thirty-five producers who are

not members of the ASP. Mr. Joyce might represent a portion of them; again, you

will have to speak to him as to whether he fits the right political hat or not,

but there it goes.

Mr. Speaker, we saw that the small processors were excluded in the MOU

process and they were also excluded from collective bargaining, this has major

implications for their businesses not for Mr. Joyce, but for their businesses

and the communities they operate in. These small operators or processors also do

not have access to information like fish prices and conditions of sale.

I ask the minister to explain how this critical information is shared to

small processors once a collective bargaining agreement has been reached?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, we, as a government, are open, at any

opportunity to facilitate any meetings that improves the lot of harvesters or

processors, so on and so forth.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: In the cases I have just mentioned, Mr. Speaker, if Mr.

Joyce, or if there are other processors out there who want to come together as a

group to see if we can facilitate making their lot in life a lot better, Mr.

Speaker, we are open to doing that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it was to no one's surprise that the members of the NLMA

formally rejected government's latest offer. However, Mr. Speaker, we are in a

critical situation. We have patients who are wondering if they are going to have

specialists in February when they need them and great distress is being caused.

Mr. Speaker, the minister did give a response with regard to discussions that

are going on right now, but I want to know, and I ask the Premier in her role as

a person responsible to the people of this Province: If things do not get

resolved in the next two or three days, is this government going to be willing

to do it through binding arbitration as will be necessary?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: As I said earlier, we cannot conduct negotiations here on

the floor of the House of Assembly. We are meeting with the doctors, which is

important. We have reopened lines of communication. Our discussions, as I said

earlier, are positive; they are very cordial. Those discussions are continuing.

We thought we had a deal last night. There are a few more things that have to be

worked out; hopefully, they will be. If they cannot be, then we will be back

here and explaining that to the people of the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I still do not have the answer. Does this government have a timeline, is what

I am asking, if things fall apart? We all know with negotiations how things can

fall apart. You think you are there and all of a sudden you are there. That is

the case. We all know that.

Does this government have a timeline? If this does not get resolved before

Christmas, will they go to binding arbitration?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, it is the role of myself, as the President of

Treasury Board, and the Minister of Health to negotiate the best deal we can for

the taxpayers of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what we are doing, but we

are not going to do it here on the floor of the House. We are doing it. We had

discussions on Monday and on Tuesday, we had discussions this morning, and we

are going to continue those discussions in the evening. When there is a deal, I

will be happy to announce it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I obviously was not asking for negotiations on the floor. It was a very

direct question that he would not answer, but let's see if the Minister of

Finance will answer this question, Mr. Speaker, because he did show signs of

being willing to have this discussion yesterday in the House.

My question is, Mr. Speaker, with regard to the provincial sales rebate on

residential heating costs. In Nova Scotia, as we know, they do provide the

provincial sales tax rebate. There, their home energy companies can deduct the

rebate at point of sale, which is a convenient and money-saving way to do it,

Mr. Speaker.

I ask the minister: Will he investigate implementing a provincial tax rebate

on home heating fuel not just fuel, all forms of home heating at point of

sale?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I checked this after our discussion yesterday.

Nova Scotia does not have a federally administered point-of-sale rebate system.

They have their own; they are paying for it themselves. I am told it is highly

inefficient and quite expensive. We estimate that the cost of such a program

here would be about $38 million plus significant administration costs.

The heating rebate program that we have, that we are administering ourselves,

provides assistance for those who need it at a reasonable cost. A universal

program would have cost much more and it would provide assistance to wealthy

people who do not need it. We would rather target that help to people who need

it. The administration costs would be quite excessive for a universal program.

We have to spend money by putting it in people's pockets and not paying

administration costs. The $250, Mr. Speaker, is providing people with a rebate

of the provincial portion of the HST.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: It being 3:00 o'clock on Wednesday afternoon and this being

Private Members' Day, the Chair now calls on the hon. the Member for the

District of The Straits & White Bay North to present his resolution.

The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a privilege this afternoon on Private Members' Day to be able to

present this private member's motion, tabled by the Member for The Straits &

White Bay North and seconded by the Member for Burgeo & La Poile.

I would like to read the private member's motion on long-term care. It says:

WHEREAS there are insufficient long-term care facilities and services to care

for our aging population; and

WHEREAS this government committed to a long-term care strategy back in

February 2008 but has failed to live up to its promise; and

WHEREAS Newfoundland and Labrador has the fastest aging population in Canada

and that by the year 2020 one in five people will be over the age of sixty-five;

and

WHEREAS seniors are often spending months and months in acute care beds

waiting to move into a long-term care facility; and

WHEREAS seniors moving between facilities causes Relocation Stress Syndrome

which can result in a serious decline in their health; and

WHEREAS these acute care facilities are not providing the proper social and

recreational opportunities to our aging population; and

WHEREAS the improper care for our seniors creates severe stress on families

and friends; and

WHEREAS government policy has failed to provide the proper long-term care and

community support services to the people of this Province;

BE IT RESOLVED that this House calls on government to consider committing

sufficient resources in this upcoming budget to address the long-term care

needs, facilities, equipment and appropriate staffing for the aged in our

Province.

Mr. Speaker, demographics are something that is changing every day in any

society. When we look at the demographics for our Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador, one of the things that we immediately see is that we have an aging

population. It has the fastest aging population, as a matter of fact, in our

entire Country of Canada, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. People are

living longer, which is great, the baby boomers are now in their sixties, there

is a decreasing birth rate, and many young people are leaving the Province

through the out-migration that we have seen over the past decade or so.

The result is, as I said a moment ago, that we have the fastest aging

population in this country. For example, in 2010, the projected population over

sixty-five is somewhere around 77,500. It is translated as 15 per cent of our

population. By the year 2025 fifteen years time it is projected that the

population over sixty-five will be 127,000-plus. It will have gone from 15 per

cent of the population to 25 per cent of the population. So, certainly with just

that in mind, it is very understood that there is an eminent problem in terms of

caring for the seniors of our Province, and really being sure that as a

Province, as a government, that we are ready for this particular trend that is

going to come across us, and this extra demand.

Shifting demographics basically point to the need for legislation, it points

to the need for policy changes, it points to the need for programs, and it

points to the need for services that respond to changes, as the population ages.

That is what this private member's motion is all about this afternoon. It is

about the need to understand, the need to legislate, and the need to make sure

that we are providing for the services that will be required in these coming

years.

According to the Newfoundland government's consultation document entitled,

Close to Home: A Vision for Long-Term Care and Community Support Services,

there are currently over 10,000 people, including seniors, adults, and children

with disabilities, and others requiring an extra level of care. By that fact

alone, long-term care requires government's close and full attention, I would

suggest. The long-term care system supports individuals in their homes. It

supports long-term care facilities. It supports personal care homes and a number

of residential options, really, that might be available to the seniors in our

community.

The minister mentioned the long-term care strategy and that he would be

speaking to it a little later. I certainly would be interested in hearing his

responses to that, but planning for the long-term care strategy was announced,

as I said a moment ago in Question Period, back in February of 2008. That is

nearly three years ago. The strategy has yet to materialize, basically.

In the Estimates Committee on April 7 of 2009, the Minister of Health then,

Minister Wiseman, said that and I quote from Hansard, it says, "a public

consultation process that we are going to go through on some models of

programming service, some delivery models that we will be engaging in, hopefully

in the fall. That will be the next wave of that piece because we want to be able

to have some public dialogue and solicit some input on some of these models we

are talking about." That was in April of 2009.

In the fall session of the House of Assembly on November 30 of 2009, the then

Minister Kennedy said that the long-term care strategy was not complete, and it

would not be completed before the fall session ended. On Tuesday, December 1 of

2009, the minister stated, in the House of Assembly, that the long-term care

strategy is not complete. He says: I am not satisfied where it stands in our

department, and I have decided there is further work that needs to be done in

relation to this strategy. So, basically government has been criticized, and

rightfully so, for this consultation process. Finally, on July 28 of 2010, in

the middle of the summer, government announced they were starting consultations

on the long-term care and community support services strategy.

We know some things that are being done in the Province. The minister

mentioned all of the millions of dollars. It is so easy to go back and pick up

four or five, or six or seven years of budgeting and total it up. Obviously,

with any department, with any type of initiatives at all, suddenly you get into

several millions of dollars worth of investment. We know that in St. John's, in

the capital city, for example, there are some new facilities that are planned.

There is a site that has been selected for two long-term care homes in St.

John's. The provincial government announced back in November of 2009 that there

would be a four-story complex - two residential buildings with modern home-like

environments and so on that would be on that location. Basically, it would be

built on the site of the former Janeway hospital, I believe, in Pleasantville.

Essentially, that facility would be meant to replace the Hoyles-Escasoni

Complex.

Now, I realize there are going to be some additional beds in that facility.

Essentially, what we are doing is we are replacing old with new, which is good,

but it does not really address the issue of an aging population, of more people

coming into that category of people needing special long-term care.

There is a research paper that is current research done in 2010 from McMaster

University. It is entitled The Private Cost of Long-Term Care in Canada: Where

You Live Matters. I would just like to read a paragraph from that particular

research paper. Essentially, what it says can be summarized in this paragraph.

It says, "Canadians expect the same access to health care whether they are rich

or poor, and wherever they live, often without direct charge at the point of

service. However, we find that the private cost of long-term care differs

greatly across the country, and within provinces, we find substantial variation,

depending on income level, marital status, and, in Quebec alone, on assets

owned. A non-married person with average income would pay more than twice as

much in the Atlantic provinces as in Quebec, while a couple with one in care

would pay almost four times as much in Newfoundland as in Alberta."

It states that if we consider an average income and in this study the

average income was identified as being approximately $50,000. If we take an

average income that requires in care, after paying the cost of long-term care

such a couple would have discretionary spending, if they lived in Alberta, of

more than $43,000, but that same couple living in Newfoundland would have

discretionary spending of approximately less than $20,000. So, while all

provinces and territories pay a large portion of the cost, there is concern for

the private cost that is borne by the residents and families.

An obvious concern that we have when we talk about long-term care and our

strategy and so on, again, is appropriate social and recreational opportunities.

While there may be long-term care facilities in our Province, many of them we

can refer to as being, basically, a bare-bones service. As one senior pointed

out: You have a bed, you have a room, you have a cafeteria to eat, and that is

about it. So, what seniors need are more recreational services, and we must

remember that their physical, their emotional, and their spiritual needs have to

be met as well in these facilities that we are providing for them.

Personal care homes, we had a question on that earlier in Question Period.

Smaller, rural personal care homes in this Province are suffering at the hands

of this government. We have raised this issue on several occasions. Today, we

are raising it again in the hope that the minister will do the responsible thing

and make some changes to help, instead of harm, the smaller, rural personal care

homes. It is great to have the larger ones where larger ones are needed, but

that is not the case in all of our rural communities. We do not need these large

homes; we need the smaller personal care homes. They are very important and

should be made viable.

The personal home care association of Newfoundland and Labrador had an

independent review completed on the impacts of the changes that the government's

board and lodging rates has, as well as increases in minimum wages are having on

their business. Basically, a copy of that report was given to the Minister of

Finance during Budget consultations. That report verifies what the association

has been saying and known all along, that the monthly subsidy increase for

seniors in personal care homes is not sufficient to meet the government

legislated minimum wage, let alone the staffing models that they have to meet

and all the other required building upgrades and so on. It is not enough to even

meet the minimum wage standards that have been implemented by the government.

Obviously, that is a huge issue. It is something that just does not make sense

in terms of the ability of the home to function, to provide for the people, the

residents who live there. We would urge government to look at doing something

with it.

Another issue, Mr. Speaker, we have to be concerned about in terms of

long-term care is what is referred to as bed blockage. One of the issues that we

have, especially in the St. John's area where hospital beds are filled, but

people who no longer need acute care are in these beds and have no place to go.

I know we have that same situation in the hospital in St. Anthony, where there

are medically discharged patients who are occupying acute care beds in the

hospital. Some of them, who I know personally, have been there for up to ten

months right now and they are still waiting for a place to go.

I think if we cannot offer the seniors of our Province anything more to look

forward to then when the time comes that you require the services of a long-term

care home, that the best we can offer you is that we will put you in a hospital

when a bed is available; we will let you sit in the acute care ward; we will let

you be prone to all of the diseases and infections and so on that might be in

that setting; we will let you occupy that bed until, hopefully, at some time in

the next year or two - fourteen, fifteen months, whatever the case might be -

that a bed might become available in a long-term care facility.

I would trust and hope today that we will hear from the Minister of Health as

he speaks in terms of this private member's motion and talks perhaps about the

strategy and the study that has been done, the consultation that has been

completed, that we will hear some real concrete answers as to how that issue is

going to be addressed, because it is so shameful that this would be the

situation. Of course, the other issue that affects this is that in the St.

John's area, in particular, when we have seniors occupying acute care beds, we

have people waiting to get into the area for other types of medical needs, in

terms of surgeries and other things, who are not able to come and have the

speciality services done that they require because the acute care bed is not

available. There is a trickle effect throughout our health care system that we

experience when those kinds of things take place.

It is important this afternoon, I am pleased to be able to present this

private member's resolution, to be able to speak to it, and I certainly, Mr.

Speaker, invite comments from the members of the government this afternoon.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I indicated in the House of Assembly last October or November

that we would be developing our long-term care strategy. My predecessor had

certainly been working on the development of that strategy for some time prior

to my coming into the department. What I also indicated, Mr. Speaker, and I

maintain this same position today, we are going to do this and we are going to

get it right.

Mr. Speaker, the challenges that we face in this Province with our aging

population is compounded by the geography of our Province. We have an aging

demographic that is spread out over a vast geographical area, and a lot of our

seniors want to remain in the rural communities that they grew up in, or as

close to these communities as possible. What we are looking at in the

development of this strategy is a seamless transition from the home, where there

has to be home care provided for our seniors who want to stay at their homes,

because the issue of choice is something that is of crucial importance to our

seniors and it is something that we heard at the long-term care consultations.

Then, Mr. Speaker, the second step will be the personal care homes. As we

have heard discussed, there are smaller personal care homes and there are larger

personal care homes. There are a number of these homes that are very modern and

have more than fifty beds. That is not to take away from the care provided from

the smaller homes, but there are certain business viability issues in relation

to some of these smaller homes. What we want to do, Mr. Speaker, we want to help

these personal care homes provide that very personal level of care that is being

provided, whether that home is a smaller or a larger personal care home.

Over this summer, Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to visit a lot of these

personal care homes. It was quite heartwarming to see the way the residents were

interacting with each other and interacting with the staff. I can remember in a

personal care home in Bonavista, after we had conducted our long-term care

consultation session, it was good to see the smiling faces. I think it was about

9:30 at night, they were having their snack at that point and everyone was very

happy.

Mr. Speaker, some people want to stay at home, others want to be near their

families, wherever their families may have moved. One of the biggest issues I

hear, Mr. Speaker, from our seniors is they want to socialize; they want to be

part of the group. That is where, as a government, we are encouraging the number

of seniors' organizations that we have in this Province. They are spread out

throughout the Province, made up of seniors. They have dances and card games.

They are very active in their communities. There is physical activity, Mr.

Speaker. As a government, we want to support them, because if we can help our

seniors or help reduce the loneliness then, again, our seniors may want to

stay in their homes longer.

I know, Mr. Speaker, and all of the MHAs in this hon. House will tell you,

the great work that is done by these seniors' groups. Seniors, Mr. Speaker, a

lot of them are fifty-plus groups. What we have is that we have these groups out

there doing their jobs. So we have to look at them in terms of what part do they

play in the development of the long-term care strategy. We heard issues of

transportation being a big issue; that seniors need to be able to get back and

forth to activities.

Mr. Speaker, we dealt with the Seniors Resource Centre here in St. John's. We

are aware of some of the difficulties that they encounter; yet, earlier this

year we went and helped them by providing them with $100,000 in funding to help

get their peer support groups out in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr.

Speaker, I visited numerous of these seniors' groups. We have to look at what

role they play with wellness grants, with healthy and my colleague will speak

about this, talking about wellness, talking about age-friendly communities,

age-friendly grants. Mr. Speaker, we heard from a lot of these groups.

Then, Mr. Speaker, you get into the next level. We have our long-term care

facilities which have Level III and IV patients, Mr. Speaker, and we have

residents. What we have to look at then is providing facilities that can allow

for comfort, allow them to be treated with dignity and respect, and that

requires, Mr. Speaker, as we have done, a very significant investment in

infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, then we get into St. John's; we have a number of homes in St.

John's which have been around for a long time and provide great care. We have

St. Pat's, St. Luke's, and Agnes Pratt. We have the facilities ran by Eastern

Health in terms of the current Hoyles-Escasoni and Masonic Park. Mr. Speaker, we

have, again, a lot of our seniors who are in these facilities.

Mr. Speaker, when we develop a long-term care strategy, it has to look at:

How can we help our seniors stay as healthy, as happy, and as active for as long

as possible? Not only will that contribute to their improved quality of life,

but it contributes to a decreased cost in the health care system. Mr. Speaker,

one of the points raised is the acute care beds and the fact that some of our

seniors are in acute care beds. That is an issue that we are looking at and we

are addressing. It is an issue that we heard in our long-term care consultation

sessions which, again, another one of my colleagues will address.

Mr. Speaker, this has to be a global policy. It cannot simply focus on one

aspect of a senior's life. It has to look at everything. The first step that we

did as a government: We recognized that we had to take certain steps. We have

invested approximately $116 million between 2004 and 2010 in the development of

long-term care facilities. We have new facilities in Clarenville; the facility

was just built in Corner Brook; a new facility in Happy Valley-Goose Bay; we are

building a facility in Lewisporte; we are building a facility in Carbonear and

we are building a facility in St. John's. To give you an idea, Mr. Speaker, of

the massive nature of these facilities, the St. John's facility will be, I

think, if I remember correctly, 450 beds. The Corner Brook facility is 236 beds.

We have heard, Mr. Speaker, some of the difficulties in Corner Brook. The CEO

of Western Health has been involved with the families and representatives of the

families in trying to iron out operational issues, whether they be staffing or

otherwise. Mr. Speaker, as a government, we are also looking at reviewing what

is going on in these facilities from a staffing and operations perspective,

because the Corner Brook facility, Mr. Speaker, is the template for which we

will then develop the 450-bed facility in St. John's and the 250-bed facility in

Carbonear.

Mr. Speaker, we have invested significant sums of money in building these

facilities. In Budget 2010, we budgeted $1.7 million for a new protective care

community residence in Bonavista with specialized care and accommodations for

individuals with mild to moderate dementia. We have continued to invest in

personal care homes, as I outlined earlier today, and we have invested in the

home care sector. As a government, what we are looking at is, although the

strategy will come later, the essential components of the strategy are all being

put in place with everything from, as my colleague will talk about, the

development of the healthy aging strategy to our long-term care consultations.

Mr. Speaker, we also have to look, though, at not only the facilities but the

staffing. In that respect, Mr. Speaker, we recently met with the Newfoundland

and Labrador Nurses' Union, and we met with the Association of Registered

Nurses. They have indicated that there was a review done a couple of years ago

that they were not involved in and they were not happy with, and this would deal

with the ratio of your nurses to your LPNs to your personal care attendants. So,

we said: Sure, we will look at that. It is very important to make sure that we

have the right number of nurses, LPNs, and personal care attendants in our

homes. So, that review will be ongoing, Mr. Speaker.

Overall, we are talking, Mr. Speaker, over the last number of years, of a

total investment of over $200 million in these long-term care facilities and

related services. There has been $110 million in infrastructure, and $103

million in home support wages and personal care home subsidies being raised. Mr.

Speaker, when you look at all of this, we are well on our way.

Now, I come to what has been put forward here as the motion. "WHEREAS there

are insufficient long-term care facilities" Well, Mr. Speaker, I can assure

you, you will not find anywhere else in this country where the same aggressive

spending is taking place as is taking place in our Province for the provision of

our services to our seniors. Mr. Speaker, in Labrador West with the new hospital

that is costing $90 million up there, it is a twenty-eight bed facility, there

will be fourteen beds for long- term care residents.

Mr. Speaker,

whereas this government has committed to a long-term care

strategy and failed to live up to its promise. We have not completed the

strategy, but as my colleague - I was going to called him my learned friend; I

forgot for a second, I thought I was in court - will point out we heard from a

lot of people and got a lot of good ideas in our long-term care consultation

sessions.

The aging demographic, no question, is an issue in this Province, a

significant issue but an issue throughout the country. When I attended the

Federal, Provincial and Territorial Ministers Responsible for Seniors meetings

in Fredericton this summer, we all had similar issues such as transportation,

such as issues of long-term care facilities, personal care homes, et cetera.

Mr. Speaker, the seniors moving between facilities is something that is

obviously not ideal. It is obviously something we would prefer to avoid. That is

something we will look at as we deal with our strategy.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is inappropriate and misleading that the motion

referred to not providing acute care facilities, not providing the appropriate

social and recreational opportunities to our aging population. The acute care

beds, Mr. Speaker, are not meant to be utilized by our seniors for any length of

time. They are not meant to be, Mr. Speaker, providing the type of activity that

is referred to here. We are working on that, and we hope to have a plan for that

in the not-too-distant future.

Mr. Speaker, we are doing our best for our seniors. We are providing a

quality of care that is appropriate in terms of the financial restrictions and

restraints on us. Again, I will say, Mr. Speaker, there is no other province

spending the kind of money right now per capita that we are spending.

Mr. Speaker, this strategy will look at - and the name of the consultation

document was Close to Home. I am just going to touch on very quickly - and I

know my colleague will do this - a couple of the personal stories that came out

of some of these. I remember out in Stephenville, Mr. Speaker, my colleagues

from Port au Port and the Minister of Child, Youth and Family Services were with

me. I can remember the families coming forward and saying: Look, we would like

to see some entertainment for our loved ones. We said: Sure, that is a great

idea. We are going to see what we can do. We can work on something like that. We

went to Springdale, Mr. Speaker, and the group there talked about all the great

steps they were taking. Sure, we will see what we can do. They had an

age-friendly community grant, Mr. Speaker.

In our other communities, we did hear, in great detail, from the personal

care homes, a lot of the smaller personal care homes in Conception Bay South

with my colleague out there. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, I am very open to what

they are saying, contrary to what is being put forward by some people. I am very

open to what they are saying and I am looking for ways and trying to help them.

They provide a quality service that we want to maintain, Mr. Speaker, but it

takes time.

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated in Bonavista, I remember the man from Grand

Falls whose wife had dementia and he required a certain service. She was moved

to the facility in Botwood. I ran into him recently. He said: Well, look, it

would be great if you could look at doing this.

So, Mr. Speaker, we received a lot of information during these sessions. We

have, I indicated earlier today, at least five people working on this long-term

care strategy. Mr. Speaker, we have done all the right things. We are doing all

the right things. We are investing our money. Because you are not going to get

any argument from anyone in this House that our seniors should not be treated

with the dignity and respect they deserve.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Our seniors, Mr. Speaker, again, quite frankly, are the

reason that our Province is the great place that it is today, but they might not

have had the opportunity that we have. Look at all the sacrifices that our

parents and grandparents would have made to allow us to reach the stage that we

are at today.

What we have to do, Mr. Speaker, we have to say to our seniors, but not only

say. We have to show them that we care, and that is what this government is

doing. We are showing them in action and not simply in words, that we care, that

we will treat them with dignity and respect, and that is exactly what we are

doing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak to the private member's

motion that we have here today. It is an extremely important issue, an extremely

important topic. It is something that I have been concerned about, of course,

and have stood in the House and spoken to on a number of occasions.

The resolution we have, of course, deals specifically with long-term care

needs. It seems we are talking about long-term care needs as they are taken care

of in facilities, because the actual resolution says, "that this House calls on

Government to consider committing sufficient resources in this upcoming budget

to address the long-term care needs, facilities, equipment and appropriate

staffing for the aged in our Province".

I would hope that the mover of the resolution, the Member for The Straits &

White Bay North, would have in his mind, when speaking about long-term care

needs, not just facilities in the community, whether they are large or small,

but also home care and the community needs that will keep people in their homes

because that too is long-term care. Allowing senior citizens, in particular, to

have home care in their homes, to have care in their homes, care which they need

in order to function but which will keep them in their community, is also

long-term care.

I remember in the spring of 2009, when I had a private member's resolution on

the floor with regard to a home care program - a totally universal, accessible

home care program that, unfortunately, the Official Opposition did not vote

with me on that. However, today I am going to vote with them on this resolution

because everything that is in this resolution I obviously stand for, but I want

to push it further with regard to the needs that we have.

I just listened to the Minister of Health and Community Services talk about

government's commitment to wanting to keep seniors in the community and to be

able to stay in their homes longer. That is something that I believe in, in a

big way, Mr. Speaker, and have spoken to in this House. However, in saying that,

the minister says that he is going to be addressing it in the long-term care

strategy, and I hope he is going to be, because while he is saying that, this

government has not been doing what I think needs to be done with regard to home

care.

When we are talking about home care, you may have somebody who is able to

function in their home with help and can also function in the community.

Somebody, for example, who uses a walker, can use a walker in their home and who

requires help for personal care, can also use that walker to get onto Wheelway

Transportation and go out to the seniors' centre for an event in the afternoon.

Home care is essential to keeping people in the community. Home care is not just

for somebody who is completely bedridden. Home care has a wide range of what is

needed to keep people in the community.

I am really looking forward to seeing this government come out in their

strategy with a strategy that is going to lead us towards a total home care

program, where we have people who are able to get home care based on need, that

we see it as part of the health care system. Whether somebody is in a long-term

care facility, whether that is a large long-term care facility or a personal

care home, or whether they are in their homes getting home care, that everybody,

all of those programs are seen as part of our health care. Because they are seen

to be a part of our health care, then they are universally accessible and based

on need, not based on any kind of financial considerations. That is the first

point I would like to make, Mr. Speaker. I am going to stay there for a moment

in looking at the whole thing of keeping people in the community and having

community supports.

Something else the Minister of Health and Community Services just talked

about in his time was there is support for programs such as the Seniors Resource

Centre. Well, Mr. Speaker, I was a little bit shocked to hear the minister say

that, because my understanding of what has happened at the Seniors Resource

Centre is different from his understanding. The government may have put money in

for the Peer-to-Peer program - that I am not going to deny - but we have had

something shocking happen at the Seniors Resource Centre here in St. John's,

something very shocking, because there were funding cuts to them with regard to

their programs. Besides having to layoff four people because of the funding cuts

at the Seniors Resource Centre, because of that loss of staff they have had to

lose programs which were excellent programs for people in the community here in

the St. John's area.

One of them was their Friday Friendship Club; which was a time for seniors to

get together on a Friday to socialize, to have fun together. Another one was the

Grocery Bus, where there was a bus that would take them out shopping; make it

easy for them to go shopping, get their groceries and go back home. I think that

bus ran once a week, if I am not mistaken. You had the Seniors Bridging

Cultures, which was an extremely important program, especially here in the

greater St. John's area now where we are getting such a mix of cultures, more

than we have ever had in our history. This Seniors Bridging Cultures is

extremely important to people in the community, to immigrants as well as to

people who were always part of the community here. Another one was their

Lifelong Learners Program, which is wonderful because that is something we all

believe in. Learning is a lifelong venture. Whether you are one year old, twenty

years old or eighty years old, there is always still something to learn, and

that is what the Lifelong Learners Program was based on. On top of that, I

understand the Baccalieu satellite office has also been closed.

Mr. Speaker, it was really disingenuous of the Minister of Health and

Community Services to stand and say they want to keep supports in the community

so that senior citizens can stay in the community, while at the same time they

have gutted the programs of the Seniors Resource Centre because of the cut in

funding. I am absolutely shocked that the minister had the nerve to stand and

make that statement here in this House, Mr. Speaker. I am very happy, on behalf

of the members of the Seniors Resource Centre, members who are around this

Province and to people who are concerned, to be able to bring this issue once

again to this floor and to talk about what has really happened at the Seniors

Resource Centre. Yes, Mr. Speaker, we all want to keep people in the community

as long as we can. We want to make sure that services are there for them and we

want to make sure that one of the biggest services that is there for them is

home care.

Mr. Speaker, the minister spoke about things that he heard during the

consultations, wonderful things that he heard during the consultations. I do not

want to put down the wonderful things that he heard during the consultations,

but I certainly sat through the consultation here in St. John's where I heard a

woman go through the horrendous experience that her family had gone through with

their mother. It was not a pretty story, Mr. Speaker; that, the minister also

heard in the consultations and he heard it more than once.

I have had many stories, Mr. Speaker, brought to me over the past years,

stories of people who are not able to make it, stories of people who do not have

the supports that they need in the community, and stories of people who have

problems with the long-term care facilities as well. We cannot make light of

this thing of moving people, shuttling people around from one place to another.

We have the awful story that is a public story now of Mr. MacLeod who died in

this process of going from one facility to another on the Northern Peninsula. A

Mr. Pink called and spoke to us about that. This has been in the media as well,

so I can say their names.

I think of the almost two years that I advocated for Pat Connors. He and his

wife needed more hours; they needed subsidization for home care. He was a sick,

elderly person trying to take care of his wife who was a sick, elderly person.

We finally got a resolution to that when the government changed, slightly, its

formula with regard to financial assessment so that they came onboard. Mr.

Speaker, that went on for years, it was in the media, and it was a disgrace.

I also had a family in the Battery where they were trying for ever so long to

get a ramp to his home so that he could get out and go to dialysis and that

would have helped keep him in his home. The stress was worse and worse and

worse; eventually, he died before ever getting the ramp to his home. We also

have the story of Sylvia Mackey in Lab City - another public story - taking care

of her daughter and the stress that she was undergoing trying to get home care

workers. When home care workers are not getting adequate payment, when home care

workers are not getting the training that they need, and especially when they

are not getting adequate payment for their work, people in communities, such as

Sylvia Mackey in Lab City, cannot get the assistance that they need, cannot get

the home care. She could pay for it and she could get assistance in paying for

it, but she could not get a home care worker. So, the dearth of home care

workers goes on.

There is another story, the story of Stella Dyke and her mother, Bessie

Bennett, another public story where the whole issue around being in hospital and

not having a place to go, whether it was home - she wanted to go home and get

home care in her home. Then, while she was in hospital, once they said she could

be discharged, being charged a fee for staying in the hospital; that case was

absolutely horrendous, Mr. Speaker absolutely horrendous.

Good, happy stories, pleasant stories, I am glad that they are out there, but

we have too many that are not. We have another case of a family over in Deer

Lake where you have three sisters taking turns staying with the father

overnight. He and the wife need more home care during the day. The closest

facility for them would be in Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker. If that were to happen,

if he were to go to Corner Brook, he and his wife would be separated. She is too

elderly to be going back and forth every day to see her husband.

These are the stories, Mr. Speaker, that go on and on. My own personal

experience of knowing what it was to co-ordinate my own mother's home care at

home, and experiencing first-hand everything that is weak in the system that

exists; number one, the lack of trained home care workers; number two, seeing

home care workers who have a tremendously important job to do and working very,

very hard because taking care of somebody who is disabled and in a bed is not

easy. Knowing the absolute terribly low wages that they earn, that really upset

me. There are so many things out there that we have to deal with, Mr. Speaker.

In the resolution that we are facing today, one of the things that is talked

about is the facilities that are needed and the issue of people having to be

shuttled around. I want to bring up one more point. We have here in St. John's

now a situation which is almost ludicrous. We know that Hoyles-Escasoni is going

to be replaced; it is going to be rebuilt in Pleasantville. We already know that

the capacity of Hoyles-Escasoni, the new building the new building, will not

be able to meet the needs of this area of the Province of the Northeast Avalon,

because they certainly serve the Northeast Avalon. They are not going to be able

to meet the needs. Already their waiting list is so long that the new building

will be way under capacity.

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand that. If this government is so serious about

this, why didn't they plan a new building that was at least going to meet the

capacity? Especially when we know that a lot of people are moving in to this

area of the Province, and a lot of them are senior citizens who are following

their children. The number of senior citizens coming into this area is really

growing because they are following their children and their grandchildren who

are now here in the Northeast Avalon area because of employment opportunities.

Here we are at a time when we have a growth in senior citizens in this area and

we have a new facility that is going to be going up that is not meeting the

present need, let alone meeting what will be the future needs.

So, Mr. Speaker, yes, I certainly do agree with the member of the Official

Opposition with regard to wanting to see the Budget address more the long-term

care needs. I want to see the Budget address also the long-term care needs not

just in facilities, not just in long-term care homes or personal care homes, but

in providing a complete, fully-accessible home care program, Mr. Speaker, and to

really put money into the community so that people staying in their homes will

have services.

I really call upon this government at this moment to undo what they did. I am

glad to see the Minister of Finance and I want him to hear me say that I want

them to undo in their Budget what they did to the funding for the Seniors

Resource Centre, because what they did was deplorable.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly appreciate the opportunity to speak to the motion put forward

today by the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

Over the month of August and the first couple of weeks of September, as

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health and Community Services, I

certainly had an opportunity to travel the Island and Labrador in terms of

carrying out consultation sessions as part of the long-term care initiative and

putting forward a strategy. I visited approximately nineteen communities. I went

into those regions, and it was certainly a very open process.

I conducted almost twenty consultation sessions, which were very well

attended in most cases. In other cases, we had the ability for people to contact

us through e-mail, through written submissions, through phone calls, and we did

receive significant contributions from a wide variety of people out there, Mr.

Speaker, people working in health care, volunteers out there involved in

activities related to long-term care and home support. As well, and most

importantly, we heard from people on the ground, everyday people who are dealing

with care for seniors, care for people who are cognitively delayed, or people

with disabilities, in terms of issues they face and what they have experienced.

I guess that was the point of the consultation, Mr. Speaker, to hear from the

front lines, the people in our communities, in our towns, in our regions, what

challenges they are facing as we move forward in developing this strategy, but

certainly recognizing the tremendous contribution that the government has made

in investments and long-term care facilities.

As the minister mentioned earlier, we have not stood pat on any of this. We

have continued to move forward and invest, as I said, in long-term care

strategies. In terms of the subsidy rate for personal care homes, it has gone

from just over $1,100 to $1,770, I think; just over $1,700. There has been a

tremendous influx of funds into these programs and is a priority for this

government.

The consultation took on that role, to get out there and hear what all the

stakeholders wanted to say, what their ideas were, what their vision was in

terms of where we needed to go. There was discussion on what has been done to

date and looking forward to what we need to do differently, what we need to

improve on, and looking for innovative ideas. That came to the forefront as

well, hearing from people in terms of new ideas: What could we do differently

than we are doing now? Currently, funds we are spending, can we spend them

differently to be more efficient and get a return on what we are doing?

As the minister also mentioned earlier, there are staff who are dedicated in

Health and Community Services in terms of putting this together. We also looked

at other jurisdictions. We had a number of representations from groups that

identified different things that are occurring in other jurisdictions and it is

part of that. That is something we will be looking at as well, Mr. Speaker. It

is wide open in terms of what we heard and what we wanted to hear. As I said, we

did get good response from them.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, we went throughout the Province to a number of areas.

We went and visited Stephenville, Port aux Basques, Corner Brook, Springdale,

Grand Falls-Windsor, Gander, Twillingate, Carbonear, Plum Point, Happy

Valley-Goose Bay, Lab City, Mount Pearl, Harbour Breton, Bonavista, Clarenville,

Placentia, Marystown, two sessions in St. John's, and in CBS, we had a session

there as well.

The document referenced close to home. It was a document put together to

encourage discussion on a whole range of items related to long-term care and

community support services, to look at the full gamut of what is out there today

and what we need to do in terms of building on what we have. It also looked at

and focused on certainly, the focus was the client, Mr. Speaker, in terms of

those who are center to this initiative, and that is the client out there,

wherever they live, that they can access the services they require in their

communities, in the towns.

There are challenges there as well, Mr. Speaker, with that. That is related

to whether you live in a small rural area, whether you live in an urban centre,

there are challenges in regard to the geography in terms of where you live. We

heard - whether it is Lab West, whether it was in Corner Brook, whether it was

in Clarenville - oftentimes, the needs and requirements are not the same. The

challenges are not the same but yet, you have to, as a government, develop the

strategy to try to reach out and meet all of those the best we can within the

fiscal framework, in terms of our budget in Health and Community Services, and

what we need to do.

The consultation, Mr. Speaker, in terms of what we heard; I just heard the

Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi speak to personal experiences. She has heard

from people on issues they have in terms of long-term care and support services

in the community, as have all MHAs. We deal with those for ourselves, our

families. I do not think any of us are immune from dealing with issues related

to community support services and long-term care. We all deal with that and we

are all quite, I am sure, versed in the challenges that are there in terms of

meeting that. We know the statistics in terms of an aging population, the

challenges that poses in what we have to deal with today and in the future with

an aging population, and how we deal with that in providing those services in

all the Province, on the Island and in Labrador, to meet those needs that we do.

Mr. Speaker, when we went into those areas as part of the consultation

sessions, we also visited, in some areas, long-term care facilities, seniors'

homes, personal care homes, we spoke to staff, we spoke to people in those

facilities to hear their concerns and their ideas in terms of what we were doing

well and what we needed to improve on. From my experience going in there, that

was great information to get that we could put into the volume of information we

got in regard to moving forward with a long-term care strategy and enhancing

community supports as well.

I know in Twillingate, I was there with the MHA for Twillingate, and had a

great discussion there. We had the medical community there; we had volunteers

from the community, visited a personal care home and saw first-hand what was

happening. We got great insight into what we may do differently and what we are

doing well, but it was on the ground.

Again, in Corner Brook, along with my colleague from the Bay of Islands, it

was a one-on-one session with a lady who had particular concerns in regard to

her mother and accessing long-term care. We worked through that with that MHA in

terms of the system and we received great feedback on where we need to go and

what we need to do. That was important and that was basically, in the

consultative sessions, what needed to be done. We had to hear first-hand and

take all of that information we have now, and as we move forward and build on

what we have done and the investments we have done to date, move forward with a

long-term care strategy.

The minister mentioned earlier in regard to his comments, this is something

that is comprehensive. It is certainly extensive in terms of the population of

whom we are reaching and who we are caring for. It has to be done right. The

time has to be taken to do it right. No doubt, it has been spoken to earlier in

terms of the amounts that have been invested to date, hundreds of millions of

dollars, and as we move forward there are more commitments, more funding that

needs to be considered but it is within the fiscal capacity of how we do that

and how we meet those needs. That is some the challenges, as we move forward

with the strategy, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as well in our consultations, we heard a lot of positive

comments in terms of some of the initiatives related to seniors' independent

living, what seniors require in terms of independent living. It was interesting

as well, seniors have differing views in terms of care and how they wish to live

in terms of their senior years. Some embrace the idea of independent living.

They would like to see that as part of a strategy in terms of access to

independent living. Others look at it, they want their independence and to stay

in their own home, with the supports around them that they are able to stay in

their own homes.

There was reference earlier to horizontal programs in other departments. We

heard that Newfoundland and Labrador Housing, through their home support program

for seniors in terms of helping them with their homes and maintaining them, was

a very important program to help seniors. We also heard in regard to

recreational activities, seniors living independently in their community, grants

and funding that is provided through Health and Community Services in terms of

wellness grants or healthy living grants, how that allows seniors to get out, to

socialize and to be involved oftentimes in recreational activity.

It is not only a physical aspect of it; it is certainly the cognitive and

social aspect of it too, where they can get out and interact with people which

is so important, and as well retain their independence in their home, in their

communities, in small communities. We have certainly heard about how that is

happening and some of the initiatives of this government are certainly

supporting that. We talked about ways that could be enhanced and how other

initiatives like that could improve what we are doing.

That was one of the things that we talked about in terms of seniors and what

they thought we needed to do. Certainly, there was a focus on independent living

and people who wanted to stay in their homes with the proper support. As I said,

there were yet others who said: Well, if I had the option, I would like to

access independent living.

We also visited, as I said, other areas of the Province where we saw that,

where there was the continuum of care. That is certainly where we want to get in

terms of a long-term care strategy, that there is a continuum of care, and those

services can be provided at all levels in terms of a senior and as they move

through different levels of care. They can access that care in their community,

sometimes just in their region, but they do have a choice. Again, that is an

issue that we are trying to work through in the strategy, that there are choices

in terms of seniors, in terms of the care that they need to access, and where

they can access it.

There are challenges, no doubt, Mr. Speaker, as we talked about. It is a big

Province. We have an aging population. As well, this is about community support

services, so it is not only about seniors; it is about those who are physically

or mentally disabled or need assistance. They are part of that too, and it was

good to hear from them, certainly, in terms of our discussions and what we heard

out there in the public.

So all of this information, Mr. Speaker, as I said, is now being reviewed. A

lot of information was received, a lot of good information, and a lot of insight

into what is happening on the ground. That was the premise behind the whole

long-term care consultations on community support services. That is the

information that is used now. It is being rolled forward from a budget

perspective, looking at next year, and as we move forward over the next while in

terms of putting this together.

Mr. Speaker, in regard to the motion itself, there is reference here in

regard to insufficient long-term care facilities and services. This government

has invested unprecedented amounts of infrastructure funds in terms of long-term

care facilities. We continue to do it. I had the opportunity to visit some as

well, to view them. Certainly, people out there recognize the contributions that

have been made and how we are meeting the needs.

I spoke about the continuum of care. There is more that needs to be done. We

are certainly committed to doing that. Those are the issues that arose when we

were out and heard from people on those. There are acute care beds in terms of

long-term care; it is an issue that is there. Through the long-term care

infrastructure that we are building, that would alleviate some of the concern of

that, but it is still an issue. We heard it and we are moving forward to trying

to address it.

Again, I mentioned the recreational component of it; it is mentioned here in

the motion: social and recreational opportunities to our aging population. We

have heard that, and, as I said, we are addressing that through various

initiatives through various departments. Again, we will look at it as we move

forward through the long-term care strategy.

Mr. Speaker, from my perspective in terms of Parliamentary Secretary to

Health and Community Services and being involved with the long-term care

consultations; it was an open and very informative process, a lot of information

collected. Through that now we have insight on the ground with health care

providers, with people out there needing access to the system, and a whole array

of items that were identified for us. As a government and as a department, we

will move forward and build up what we have done to date, and move forward with

a long-term care strategy that will meet the needs of seniors and others in our

community who need support services to the best of our fiscal ability.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Kelly): It is the pleasure of the Chair to recognize the

hon. Minister of Business.

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure today to stand and to make some comments, not so much the

motion itself but about the thrust of the motion and the subject matter. One of

the most rewarding and insightful experiences I ever had was prior to my

appointment as Minister of Health and Community Services in January, 2007, I had

the opportunity to be a part of a process, on behalf of government, that led a

province-wide consultation. We visited some seventeen communities and spoke to

some over 1,000 people, Mr. Speaker.

As a result of that particular consultation process, listening to seniors,

listening to people who had an interest in seniors' issues, family members of

seniors, government developed and at the end of the day I happened to be the

Minister of Health and Community Services when we launched a Provincial Healthy

Aging Policy Framework. I say, Mr. Speaker, that came about as a result of

significant input from a variety of people. One of the things that we really

wanted to understand - as a government we needed to better understand the

impacts of an aging population, the impacts on individuals themselves, the

impacts on family, the impacts on the community in which they live, and how it

impacted society overall.

It has been said many times, Mr. Speaker, that Newfoundland and Labrador has

the most rapidly aging population in all of the country. For that reason, we

need to be on the leading edge. We need to better understand how we, as a

society, not just as a government but as a society, how do we prepare for a

rapidly aging population, so we engaged in a discussion. This motion deals with

long-term care and community supports. The focus of this policy document, this

policy framework, Provincial Healthy Aging Policy Framework: We needed to

understand the aging process, Mr. Speaker.

One of the things that came out of this discussion and was developed: We have

here a document that provides for some twenty-eight recommendations and a series

of action items that will prompt, not just governments, because you see, Mr.

Speaker, aging is not just about seniors themselves, aging is not just about

what government can or should do but aging is a societal issue; and we all need

to be engaged and we all need to understand. Some of the key - I just want to

highlight, Mr. Speaker, because I think it is really important - priority

directions that came out of this policy framework was a recognition of the older

person. A focus on recognizing the value of the older person, celebrating their

diversity, providing supportive communities in which to live, making sure they

had financial well-being, the health and wellness of individuals as they age,

employment, education, and research.

We start to age at birth, so as a society we need to start thinking about

what it takes to be a healthy society, and what does it mean to be aging in an

age-friendly community. Growing out of this initiative, there was a number of

projects where we were working with community organizations to create an

age-friendly environment at a community level, one community at a time, as we

build the momentum becoming a province that is truly age friendly.

One of the key foundation pieces, Mr. Speaker, was the recognition of the

older person, recognizing the value of aging, recognizing the value of seniors.

One of the unfortunate things about motions such as the one we have here today,

inasmuch as it talks about long-term care and community supports, this is about

what government should be doing for seniors, or what government should be doing

for an aging population. If you step back for a moment, Mr. Speaker, and look at

this in its broadest context, we need to - because sometimes we