• March 25th, 1971 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape 10 JM - 1 HON. J.R . SMALLWOOD (PllEMIER): Mr. Speaker, two years ago;at the request of the Government,this House enacted the Newfoundland Ruman Rights Code. In the interval since then,my colleagues and I have been working to set up the machinery that would be needed to enable us to administer this Act. Because this Legis1ation is new to Newfoundland, because we have never before under­ taken anything quite like it, we have had to move with care.

The House reco gnized this when they provided that the Act come into effect on proclamation by the Government. As the House is aware,this Act was brough t into force very recently. Under the Act provision is made for the appointment of a commission, in cases where the public servants concerned with administering the Act have not been able to resolve disputes and complaints . The Legislation gives the Governor-in-Council power to appoint such a ccmnnission,in each instance ,where a complaint is not reso lved by the appropriate public servants .

We feel that this j.s a cumbersome procedure that might result in delays in the resolution of complaints laid by citizens of the Province. Accordingl y,we have decided to appoint a commissioner now. The collllllissioner will therefore deal with all complaints of discrimination laid under the Human Rights Legislation. It is with great pleasure that I infonn the House that we have appointed Mrs . Gertrude Keough to be the first co111111issioner under the Newfoundland HU111an Rights Act. Mrs.

Keough, a native of Cape Broyle on the Southern Shore 1 is by profession a school teacher although she .has not taught for s0111e years. Her interest in public affair s and her keen sense of equity and fair play are well known. the Government feel that she is admirably suited for this position , that she will ensure a just and impartial hearing of any complaint laid by any citizen who feels that his human rights have been affected. Mrs. Keough is the widow of my late friend and collea gue, the hon. William J. Keough. Mr.

Keough,more than any other man,must be regarded as the father of Human Rights Legislation in Newfoundland. During the past two ..., I') 11-.t

March 25th • 1971 Tape 10 JM - 2 MR. SMALLWOOD: years he devoted much of his t111te to the work wMch was neceasary to be done to 11ake the Human Rights Code into an effective piece of Legislation. Since he has been taken from us so suddenly it is entirely fitting that we ask Mrs. Keough to help carry on with this vork. I Jtnow that every member •of the Bouse and every Newfoundlander will share my feelings in this matter. 73

Karch 25, 1971 'Iape no 11 Page 1 Premier Smallwood Hr. Speake-r, I have to announce the resignation · of Mr. Michael Maher, as Superviso-r or Editor of Hansard end Chief Librarian and the appointment by the Internal Economy Commission, in his place , of Miss Katherine Murphy to both offices; that is Supervisor o-r Editor of Hansard and Librarian. Mies Murphy became Steno-type operator early in the life of this Bouse, after the coming of Confederation,and,as such , she has been a familiar and respected figure in this House for a period longer than most me111liers have been in this House.

I am sure this will meet with the approval of all hon . membe-rs. HR. JOHN C. CROSBll: Mr. Speaker, may 1 be pennitted a question in connection with that statement? Would the hon the Premier give us the reason for the resignation - the 111-health or •• ? MR. SMALLWOOD: No! MR. CROSBIE: Is it a mutual agreement between •• ? MR. SPEAKER: Comment on a ministerial statement at this time is not p•mitted. There is a time during the day when all questions may be asked, not in connection with a statement ~een given by a minister. MR. CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker, thia matt.er came up several times las t year. t believe it was held that. questions cao be asked to clarify statements made by hon. ministers • .lfR. SPEAKER: I think that the ruling - 1 am not one hundred per cent sure exactly what we did in any specific case. I deem it advisable that questions on ministerial statements should be asked before we go into Orders of the Day. It would be 1110re appropriate than commenting or questioning the statement as, it is being given . MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, yes t erday. on March 24th •• in the ninety-ninth year of his life, the Rev. Brother John. A.

Conway died and Newfoundlanders im,urn the passing of a universally loved and respe cted teac her. A man who in 74

March 25th,, 1971 Tape no 11 Page 2 Mr. Smallwood his own unobtrusive but very active life made a great contribution to the land and city of his ado·ption. Brother Conway was only sixteen years old . when he came to our ahores from Ireland with the first band of Irish Christian , Brothers, to establish a mission anywhere in North America . That was in 18901 iighty-one years ago, thirty years before Newfoundland had her first Minister of Education, Dr, Barnes 1n 1920, Brother Conway was a co-founder of Holy Cross School in St. John's . He taught there for a nwnber of years .

In 1910 he returned to Ireland, a very sick man, with apparently very little hope of recovery - 1910, In 1916 he came back to St, John's froui Ireland and joined the staff of St. Patrick's Hall,where he remained for two years. He then became identified with Mount Cashel where, for over half a century, he laboured mightly and achieved much. He took a special interest in the Mount Cashel Band, devoting a great deal of his time and talents to the training of the very young members of the band,so much so that the band came to be known as: ..

Brother Conway's Band:' Of course, another fawurite project of Brother Conways was the development of the farm 75

March 25 1971 Tape 12 page 1. and grounds of Mount Cashel. The older me1abers of this House will certainly recall the fact of the Mount Cashel fam ,where the boys received practical training . many. many years before trade schools were established in Newfound- land. A lot of people think 1 Mr.

Speaker, that had not Newfoundland education become so obsessed with purely academic subjects and public examinations , the Mount Cashel farm might well have developed,under the guidance of men of vision and the calibre of Brother Conway and his confrere the late Brother Ennis~developed into a very important and meaningful institution in our 'Province. In 1947,two years before Confederation,Brother Conway celebrated his Diamond Jubilee, sixty years as a member of the Irish Christian Brothers.

Bis devotion and contribution , hi.a contribution to education were reco~ized by Church and State, He was the recepient of a papal medal from Pope Paul V~ in 1965,and in Canada's Centennial Year , 1967,Brother Conway was awarded _a centennial medal. He was then ninety-five years old. Now Brother Conway has • left us. Mr, Speaker, we are all better Newfoundlanders for the noble work of this fine man. MR.MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, if I may say a few words on Brother Conway.

I have known the gentleman and have known him for a great many years and I think the Premier has given a very complete outline of the work of this great christian gentleman. I can only say that we on this side join with the House .extending to the order of Chrisian Brothers here in Newfoundland our s,mpathy and,as the Premier bas said,the loss of this great gentleman will be felt not only by Mount Cashel b~t to all the boys and to all the gentlemen,of older people -.mo he educated through his many years of service to Newfoundl and. RON. W. CALLAHAN(Min. of Mines, Agric.& Resources):Mr.

S~eaker, I am pleased to infonn the House that a~reement has been reached between the negotiatin~ team of the Treasury Board on behalf of the Government and the Interns and Resident~ Association concerning allowances and accommodation rates for the Interns and Residents working in the hosoitals of this Province. The A~rccment 76

Much 25 1971 Tape 12 page 2. 1• for two yean from January 1, 1971 to December 31, 1972. '11le details of the Ag-reement ase set forth in a 111emorandum of understanding that it is now before the parties. I wish further to announce that tentative agreement has been reached between our negotiators and the Newfoundland Government Employees Association, representing the instructora of the College of Trades and Technology and the Diatrict Vocational Schools. We understand that this tentative agreement is subject to ratification by the employees concerned. I wish also,Mr.

Speaker. to info.rm the Bouse that· .i:he·~Govenu11enr~ th110.ugh the Treasury Board.are today in tecej,pt of a letter from the President of the Teachers Association. 77

March 25, 1971, Tape 13, Page 1 • apb !Q!, W.J.CALLARAN (Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources): This letter aelta that the Treasury Board. recolQl!lend to the Governfflent that the increases offered by the Government's negotiators on .January 8, 1971, be reflected in teachers' salary cheques beginning in April 1971. The Government intended all along that teacher's salary increases, would have effect as from April 1st., 1971.

However, my colleague, the Minister of Finance, or the Minister of Education informs 111e that due to the fact that the salary cards of more than 6,000 individual teachers must be adjusted to take account of increased salary amounts, deductions, etc,, it may not be possible physically to Teflect the increases in teacher,' salary cheques beginning in the IDO~th of April - next month, &·tarting next week.

However, the increases will be 'effective as from April l, and my colleague advises 111e that his officials are working vith all speed to make the required adjustments in the cornputeri.zed salary cards, so that the increase will in fact be ,paid out without 1n1due delay. Mr, Speaker, the Treasury Board's negotiators are at this time involved in several sets of negotiations with the representatives of the various groups of el8ployees in the public service.

Negotiations are in progress with the P~lice Brotherhood of the Newfoundland Constabulary, with the Association of Registered Nurses of New.foundland • and with local 1075 of the International Assoc:iation of Firefighters. May I say, that in my view,Mr, Speaker, the negotiation .a are going well.

On Mond.ay March 29, our negotiators vill open negotiations with the Hewfoimdland Government Employees Association, concerning various other occupational groups in the general public service, that are represented by the N.G.E.A, It is our intention to keep the House fully informed as to the progress of the various negotiations,b.aring in mind, that in each case agreements exist between the paTties. Public statements during the course of the discussion are to be ma.de only on the basis of mutual agreement or -prior notice. HON. E.M.ROBERTS (~inister of Health): Mr.

Speaker, it is with satisfaction that I announce on behalf oI the Government, that the Newfoundland Medical 78

March 25th. 1971 Tape 14 PK - l MR. ROBERTS: Newfoundland is the only Province in Canada where the Government and the doctors have negotiated an agreement which effects the total potential earnings of doctors practising under medicare. We are proud of this. We are equally proud that the doctors of Newfoundland have shown their concern for· the best interest of the people of Newfoundland. In negotiating this agreement the quality of u,edical care and the ability to attract doctors to practice in Nevfoundland have been the chief objects of both the Government and the doctors. Despite the fact, '!-!r.

Speaker, that we 00\1 have more doctors serving our people than ever before in our history, we still need far more medical men in this Province. We believe that this agreement vi.11 allow ue to cont1 1nue to attract more doctors to Newfot.mdland. On the average, Sir, the incomes of doctors in Newfoundland are still comparable to the incomes of doctors in other parts of Canada, even with these new agreements. We believe that this is essential, if we are to continue to attract doctors to this Province.

Doctors, Sir, will not come to Newfoundland, if by so doing they have to settle for lower incomes than they can get in other provinces of Canada. This is a basic concern of the Government and in accepting these agreements we have had this prinicple uppemost in our minds. AB I have already said, the agreements are temporary. It will come into effect on April 1st. and they will remain in effect until the Covernment and the Newfoundland Medical Association have agreed upon a new fee schedule. These negotiations are to begin immediately. Mr.

Speaker, I will have copies prepared for distribution to the members of the House and to the press and attached to the copy of the statement I have just made in b'ehalf_of the Government, Sir, will be a paper setting forth the principal points of the agreement. RON. S. A. NEARY, (MINISTER OF LABOUR): Mr. SoEaker, there is one major recommendation of the Poyal Commission,in investi~ating health and radiation conditions and matters involvin~ Workmen's Compensation in St. Lawrence 1 which has yet to he made effective. 80

March 25th . 1971 Tape 14 PK ~ 2 MR. NEARY: The Commission , Sir, in 1969 recol!!lllended thats fund be set up to provide additional benefits to disabled workmen, widows and dependents of deceased workmen entitled to receive c0111pensation in St , Lawrence, in order that they may live with dignity and enjoy thf: amenities of life which they would have enjoyed had the bre.adwinner not become disabled or deceased . It vaa further recommended, ~r. Speaker. that the fund be financed by those who have received the greatest benefit from the operation of the Fluo.rspar Mine~at St.

Lawrence; that is Newfoundland Fluorspar Limited, the Seibert Family, the owners of the St. Lawrence Corporation of Newf oundland, Limited, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the Government of Canada. Prior to his death, Mr, Speaker, the late hon. W.J. Keoug~,in his capacity as Minister :~·of Labour,wrote the Seibert Family conce rning the recommendation of the Royal Commission, but received no reply.

The Newfoundland F1uorspar, Limited. have eX1>licitedly expressed their willingness to co-operate in the establishment of the proposed fund, Since the suggestJ.on, Sir, originated in their company brief to the Royal C0111111ission. Since it appears that the Seibert Family will contribute to the foundation. the Government have decided, Mr. Speaker, to set up the ftmd 1provided that the Government of Canada will join the Newfoundland Government and NEWFLUOR in contributions. If the Canadian Governl!lent will asslllll.e a share, the St.

Lawrence .survivors' fund will be set up under the administration of a local board comprising of represent­ ativea of municipal govemmenta,two labour unions, the co111111un.ity and the survivors of the victims who have combined in making representatio n 1 from time to time 1,0 the Newfoundland Government in behalf of the widows and orphans created by the radiation hazard in the St . Lawrence ~ine before present day safety precautions have been instituted . 81

March 25th, 1971 Tape 15 JM - 1 HON, L.R. CURTIS (MINISTER OF JUSTICE): Mr. Speaker, under the Criminal Injuries Compensation Act, 1968,the Government is authorized to appoint three commissioners. So far under that Act there have been two claims only presented • . One is of doubtful legal correctness and the other is a minor one. The Government have thuefor e temporaril y appointed the Workman's Compensation Board to be an interim Board of Commission to deal with any claims which may be received. MR.

Sl'EAKER : Before 1 call the presentation of petitions I would like to draw the attention of all members of this hon. Rouse to the fact that we have in the galleries today our first group of student visitors. Thev co1tsist of about t~irty-five students from grade lX ,, of the grade lX class of St. Edwards Regional High at Bell Island. I know you would want me to bid them a hearty welcome. They are no doubt the first of many groups of students that will visit ·this House this year, We hope that their visit,together with those of all' others who visi t during the session,will be both educ ational and enjoyable.

I would also want to draw to the attention of the Bouse the fact that we have in the visitors gallery today a distinguished Canadian athletic in the person of Mr. Bruce Ridd. Ris athletic career I think is well known to every Canadian,as well as the members of this House Ye are very glad to see him here today and we are very glad to see that he is following out his athletic interest in the youth of this country as well as this province. We · all bid him a hearty welcome. PETITIONS: MR. R. BARBOUR: ·t beg to present a petition, Sir, from the pupils who attend elementary schools at Bloomfield and Musgrave Town.

I may be setting a precedent because I believe this is the first time, Sir, at least in my history and my acquaintance with this Rouse,that any such petition has been presented by pupils from the kindergarden to grade Vll. The prayer of their petition. Sir, is roads, roads, roads. They are praying most humhly to this hon. House that the roads going t hrough l\loomfield ancl Musgrave To\./Tl will be upgraded aml in due course paved,within reasonable time. If I rememher corrcctly,when 82

March 25th, 1971 Tape 15 JM - 2 MR. BARBOUR: our great economic conference took place early this winter the hon. Minister of Righways,in his eloquent report,referred to the portions of the road referred .to, in this petition , by the pupils of this elementary school. Mr. Speaker, I endor.se, I support wholeheartedly this petition because we are having too much dust around our communities where people cannot open their windows, where you can scarcely see a car behind or ahead because of the dust.

But ,because this Government 1s conscious of this they are doing everything within their power to eliminate such nuisances, I believe before too many moons, so to speak, we vill see much more pavement, better roads all around Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, I now ask that this petition be received, Sir, and referred to the Department to which it relates. Ou motion , petition received. MR. RICKMAN: Mr • . Speaker, I have a petition from the majority of the voters in the town of Epworth on the ?eninsula of Burin.

The prayer of the petition is that when the DRBE highway,which is being constructed from Lewi.ns Cove to St. Lawrence,is completed or during the course of construction that the road leading into Epworth from the main highway also be upgraded and paved. This vill not break the Treasury, Mr. Speaker. It does not involve any substant1al expenditure of public funds. It is a ve-ry short distance.

The people of Epworth are primarily inshore fishermen and I vould venture to say that it ie a community in this Province where able-bodied social assista nce is completely and totally unknown and that position has prevailed from the time , I gueas, that Epworth was founded. They make a great economic contribution to this Province.

They do not and have not been beating trails back and forth to the Confede rati on Building seeking assietance from Government but rather they decided to wait until they were in a position where l:bey could legitimately request that their road now be brought up to the standard that people of the Province of Newfoundland are enti tled to expect. I, Mr. Speaker, have &; gTeat deal of pleasure in submitting this petition and presenting this petition to thie hon. Mouse and through the 83

March 25th, 1971 MR. HICKMAN: Tape 15 JM - 3 House to the hon. the Minister of llighvaya, I feel certain that he will show a great deal of sympathy. Last year the people of Epworth ask for one very •-11 accommodation from the hon. Miniater,which was taken care of as a result of a petition, this tim.e they are looking for something somewhat larger an.d somewhat more expensive but something to which, they are entitled.

The road to Epworth is a road that has been known in history for a long, long time and I would like to assume that all hon. members vould support me and support the good people of Epworth in this petition. I move that the petition be laid upon the table of this Rouse and referred to the Minister to whom it relates. On motion, petition received. MR.. CURTIS: I have the honour to present a petition from the voters of New World Island. Boyda Cove, Stoneville, Port Albert and Horwood, This petition aets forth that the medical services of the area have not increased in proportion to population growth. 84

March 25th., 1971 Tape no. 16 Pagel Mr. Curtis; The petition sets forth that the present medical services and facilities in the area in question are drastically inadequate. They aay that the proposed hospital for Twillingate will not offer any specialized services nor does it at the present time. The petition points out that specialized and medical services can be had only at hospitals as large !IS or larger than Gander Hospital, which is over forty miles distance, The petition also says that;

whereas, the present Government suggested that medical centres be built and services by large regional hospitals, therefore. they, the petitioners, ove.r 2,200 of them p·ray that there be established on New World Island a medical centr e. The petition suggests a building Vith offi ces and staffed by two full-time doctors; one part-time dent~st and nursing and clerical personnel. I would beg leave to present thi s petition, I am honoured to do so.

As I aay, it represents ninety - five per cent of the eligible voters, over 2.200 of them, that would roughly r,epresent the Liberal vote in that area. 1 would 1110ve that the petition be received and referred to the department to which it relates, MR. B. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise . in Tlt'f place, in support of the petition which bas just been presented to t he House, on behalf of the people of Nev World Island, Boyd's Cove, Port Albert, Victoria Cove, Horwood, Stoneville.

I suspect that people fr0111 the north side of Gander Bay, including Victoria Cove and Wing's Point,would also be interested in having the services on New World Island improved. Doctor Sheldon is the medical practioner there now. He is doing a tremendous job but, of course , like most of the doctors in the Province, he finds there is not time enough in the day to attend to all the ills of the people. Certainly. sir , ~t gi ves 85

March 25th., 1971 Tape no 16 Page 2 Mr. Collins: 118 great pleas ure to support the petition of those people for a very, worthy and needed service. HO~. H,ISTARJCES (Minister of Highways): Mr. Speaker, it also gives ae great pleasure to support this petition. Part of the petitioners, a great num~er of them,are from my district, I . certainly . would like to aupport the petition. I hope this matter will be given serious consideratioD and all the factors involved taken into account and the matter disposed of to everybody's satisfaction. MR.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that this petition be received and referred to the department to which it relates. MR. A. 'WORNELL: Mr. Speaker, it is lfrY duty and indeed a pleasant one to present a petition from the citizens of Gaultois. This petition is a double-barreled one, sir. It is _well drafted and well subscribed to, It contains some 260 signatures. Indeed, there are only 276 listed on the 1966 voters' list; so that ia a pretty good representation indeed. I shall not go into the

preamble of the petition, sir . I will just state the 1181n paragtapb and that is: ''We the undersigned do humbly petition Her Majesty's Government to give favourable and urgent consideration to the installation of water end sewer connections . to all homes and that this hon. House give further, favourable and urgent consideration to the provision of suitable and adequate road or street communication between the different areas known as; The B0tto111, The Poinc and The Room, The Room being the only area in Gaultois reached conveniently from the Government wharf .

Nov, sir, as t have just said, this is well subscribed t o and in an accompanying letter l may just mention a few salient facts. The town has. for •ome 110otbs, been discussing a new town plan whereby they could improve 86

Karch 2~th •• 1971 TQe uo 16 Page 3 Kr. Varnell the_ services which are Yirtually non-existent at present and thereby. of course, improve the tax structure. They hope to complete the desired C0111111Unication1referred to in the patition. Thac vill take, perhaps, a considerable sum of 1110ney. They feel that they have waited for their share ftOlll the public: coffers. b ~ all lmow, everyone today is becoming pollution conscious.

This road that they referred to will enable the council to collect garbage -,re efficiently and I think , sir, that thia Government and the Department to 'fhich this part of the petition would relate should do all it can to aee that the request is fulfilled. l have much pleuure, sir, in additig my support to this petition. 1 ask that it be laid on the table and refert-ed to the departments to which it relates. HR.. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the petition. Gaultois certainly bu a lot of problem.a and water and sewerage ie one of the grave ooea; a road ia another grave problem.

The physical setting of Gaultois la a very difficult one to create services in, I re•aller, Mr, Speaker, when the Government were going to ,1110ve ewryone from Gaultois and other areas, the south coast. into Bay d'Espoir . They were going to .,ve the fish plants and everything else in there. That vu found to be illlpractical. I usume it ia being dropped. If that has been fol.llld to be illpractical • then Govem•nt auat pend money uking conditions 11wable for the aen and w•n who are earning their living 1D the·,fish plqt at C&ultois. Certainly. Mr.

Speaker. froa.., experience of viaiting Gaultois, this 1• a. area that has a pollution problem; that has a grave proble• with napect to public ervicea and om that any Government vould be ~11 justifi ed io apeading a great deal of mney to usi•t. 87

March 25th, 1971 Kr. Crosbi.e Tape no. 16 Page 4 Mr. Speaker, the hon. member mentioned that approximately ninety per cent of the voters of Gau.ltoia had signed a petition, The hon. Minister of Justice mentioned the same with his petition from New World Island. It may be- a coincidence but neither one of the districts of Twillingate or Hermitage has had an election since 1962. This maybe the reason why these services are still lacking in both those districts. l do not know how these hon. members know that these are ninety per cent of the voters, Mr. Speaker, since there has not been a vote taken since 1961.

In any event, l would support both pet.itions. MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that this petition be received and referred to the department to which it relates. MR. MURPHY: Mr, Speaker, I would like to present a petition on behalf of some residents of the district of Ferryland, comprising of five or six COIIIIIIUDities.

The prayer of the petition reads as follows: ''Whereas the highroad in our area is in a deplorable condition and in the past we were promised fifteen miles of pavement per year, of which we have not received one foot as yet, therefore, we would like to see some action in the near future, " Now, in speaking on this petition, Mr. Speaker, these areas are surrounding a fish plant at: Fermeuse and a great many of the workers there IIUt commute from di.stances as far as thirty or forty miles. I was in the area on the day before yesterday. The roads are really deplorable.

The great need for some pavement is clearly shown by anybody vho visits the district . The district has been without a member for just about a year. I had so,ne calls last year about the same petition, which was not presented in this . hon. Bouse and should have been. But, I strongly support, Hr . Speaker, this petitiou~because of the fact that we are talking about economic development or any other kind of development in this Province. Here we hsve , in the district 88

March 25th., 1971 Tape no 16 Page 5 Mr. Murphy. of Fermeuse, in the community of Fermeuse,a splendid fish plant,adding considerably to the economy of that particular area. I am sure 89

March 25, 1971, Tape 17, Page 1 - a~b HR. A.J.MURPRY (Leader of the Opposition): That if these people were given decent roads, it would certainly cut down,as far as they are concemea, the cost of maintaining their motor vehicles and trucks and everything else. Mr. Speaker, I move that this petition be accepted, and referred to the department to which it relates. MR. J.C.CROSBtE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak in suppo rt of this petition. I received a copy of the petition also.

I think the petitioners presented a copy of the petition to the Premier,!£ I am not mistaken, and in any event it has been presented to the House by the Leader of the Opposition , The district of FerT)'land does not have a member in the House.Mr. Speaker. I r~call that the hon. the Premier said that he would fill in for the missing member, as long as there was no bye-election at Ferryland, and he would carey out the duties of the district. Be that as it may, the petition is being presented by the Leader of the Opposition and I do not see how it can be argued against.

The paving of t he Southern Shore highway, down through the district of Ferryland to Trepassey, ia certainly desperately needed, I will not even mention how often it has been promised. It is needed, not just to improve driving conditions but to help improve the economy of the area, to permit people to travel back and forth 'longer distances to work. It is needed because that district has difficulty in getting 111.edical assistance. If I am correct, there ia only one doctor,as far as I know,in the district of Ferryland, certainly not more than two.

The improvement of that road, the paving of that road, is a necessity just ftom a health point of view, from an economic point of view, and of course from the point of view of anyone who wants to drive on it,whether for business or pleasure. It is also a tremendously scenic drive down the Southern Shore. There would be a tremendous volume of Provincial tour ists, people from St. John)s , going down that highway ,s,ending their money in the Ferryland district, if the 90

March 251 1971, Tape 17. Page 2 - apb road ·~ere in a decent I passable condition. lf the member who is sitting in for the district would see that the road was paved this year, I am sure that the Government would receive thanks for it, and that the people vho live in the district would see that they have a member wbo advances their interests when the next election comes. On 1110tion1 petition received and referred to the department to which it relates.

PRESENTING REPORTS OF STANDING AND SELECT COMMITTEES: The report of the select c01m11!ttee appoi nted to draft the Add~ess in Reply to the Gracious Speech from the Throne. The report has now been received . MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, does this 111ean that the Address is supposed to commence now? You are just telling the Bouse that the report is • •• • •• MR. SPEAKER: The report is now received. The report is as follows: ''We the Commons of Newfoundland, the Legislative Assembly assembled, beg to thank Your Honour for the gracious Speech which Your Honour has addressed to this House.

" This sets up the Address in Reply, and the motion will be that this Address in . Reply be presented to His Honour, NOTICE OF MOTION: HON. J.R.SMALLWOOD (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to give notice,that 1 will on tomorrow move that a select committee be appointed in conformance with the notice given in the Speech from the Throne , in which it says, '' My Ministers have therefore decided to ask Your House to authorize the appointment by your Speaker, of a select committee that would be charged with the important duty of hearing evidence. opinions and recommendations of the respective unions of fishermen, organizations of fish plants and processors , and any others who might feel that they had a stake in the success of the fisheries, with regard to the best s ystem that might be authorized or enjoined by legislation of your House.

"Legislation will be placed before you to give to the fishermen of our

March 25, 1971, Tape 17, Page 3 - apb Province, through their organizations, the right of collective bargaining," I do not have the 1110tion written, I undertake to do it, and give it to Your Honour throughout the present sitting of the Rouse, but I would like now, to give notice of the motion, and let Your Honour appoint the Select CoDllittee of the House, and that the Committee have this matter referred.

I would wish to have the motion put tomorrow, and perhaps the Co111111ittee, if the J\Otion is carried, the co111111ittee be named by Your Honour, and that the committee have right to sit during and throughout the session, whether the House is in or out of session. If the Rouse would be agreeable to accept my notice of motion without the actual 1X>rding, I undertake to have the wording later on in the present sitting. MR. SPEAKER: Further Notice of Motiont ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS: MR. SMALLWOOD (J.R.): Mr.

Speaker , I have the answers to s~veral questions, the first of which is no, 37,~on the Order Paper of today, in the nll!lle of t he hon, 111ember for Burin. The answer i s, no . Question no . 59, on today's Order Paper, in the name of the hon. the member for St . John's East, and addressed to 11y colleague the hon. the Minister of Economic Development, who ha.s asked me to reply . My reply is, no. Question no. 61, on today ' s Order Paper in the name of the hon. the member for St . John's Centre, one of the Leaders of the Opposition . MR MURPffY: One of the Leaders of the Opposition?

MR SMALLWOOD: The Leader of one of the Oppositions. That i s the one that drawa the salary. MR MURPHY: The title the members of the House more popularly refer to . !!!,_SMALLWOOD: Indeed. I have done that twice, done it both ways. The answer to the first part Mr. Speaker is as follows, Robert Sinclair, baa been appo~ted executive assistant to the Minister of Health, Mr. Frederick Durant executive assisunt to the Minister of Education, Mr. Bruce Peters, executive assistant to the Minister of Community and Social Development, and Mr, Rober t Cousins, e~ecutive assistant to the Minister of $2

March 25. 1971, Tape 17, Page 4 - apb Mines. Agriculture and ~eaourcea. All o ,f t -hem appointed for one year, on probation. at a salary of $100 000. a year. each one ot the111. Queation no. 68, in the 1Ul1lle of the aa,ne hon, gentleman. The answer to the first

part la yes, ud in i,articular, the Labrador - Newfoundland and Labrador Power Coaniasion. This was a project clinic. or a project hoS.pital to be uaed throughout the period of the comtruction i,roject at Bay D'Espofr, 93

Karch 25th . 1971 Tape 18 PK - 1 MR. SMALLWOOD: it was constructed in 1965 at a cost of $75,000. It formed part of the $70 million p~oject. In 1968, it was relocated from where it vu to where it now is . ' In reply to the fourth part of the question, I have to say at the moment the building is not in use.

That my colleague the Minister of Health u actively considering whether to use it for the purpose he has in mind or not to use it, but to construct another one, a new one. the probability b~ing that he will use this one . as a health centre, not a hospital, but a health centre in which there will be medical, dental, maybe optometerical services, but certainly medical and dental. Question No. 160, which is on the last page of today's Order Paper and in the nmae of the other Leader. He just loves the sound of it. MR. CROSBIE: Inaudible . MR . SMALLWOOD: A lot of people. A lot of people. MR. CROSBIE: Inaudible. MR.

SMALLWOOD: At least 1 have toenails . MR. CROSBIE: Inaudible. MR.. SMALLWOOD: The question is in two parts. The answer to the first

part is ''no." The answer to the se-cond

part is as follows; the Directors of frovincial Holding Company, Limited,are the Premier of the Province, the KinisteT of Justice, the Minister of Economic Development, the Minister of Community and Social Development.

The DiTectors of PTovincial Refining Company are the Premier of the Province, the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Economic Development and the ~..inister of Co111D1unity and Social Development, the same ministers , The Directors of Provincial Building Company,Limited, are the Premier of the Province, the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Economic nevelopment, the Minister of Conmnmity and Social Development, and the Minister of Health. Question No. 161 of the same hon. member,the answer is, Jacob's Engineering Company of California.

They weTe appointed on November 17. 1970. 1n addition to that company, officers of the Department of Justice and of the Department of Fiu-ance are directly involved, as are also ,1r . P.. G. Dustlln 94

March 25th. 1971 Tape 18 PK - 2 MR. SMALLWOOD: and Mr. Herman Batten. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, though it may not be strickly in order. - certainly it is not distinctly out of order, the Bouse might be interested to hear a bit of pleasant news,to the effect that the Commanding Officer of the United States Naval Station at Argentia announces a wage increase for its Canadain Civilian Employees paid from appropriated funds. It will be made effective on the 4th, of April. This wage increase amounts to approximately six percent and it affects 126 tmployees who are employed under the United States Civil Service System .

And furthenmre,with regard to Goose Air Base in Labrador, after receipt of specific guidance from higher beadquarters for implementing the 95th. ' Stra~egic Wing Reduction in Force, the Manpower alignment ~at Goose Air _Base, Colonel James B,Penrod Wing Commander has revealed that the required actions were finalized this week. It was estimated in January 1971 that about thirty Canadian ,civilian personnel would be affected by the reduction in force , As far as the approved Manpower alignments are conce:r:ned, 113 posi dons were involved .

The alignment : actually resulted in the termination of employment of only twenty-three civilians,due to the non-availability of positions requiring their skills. All individuals concerned are eligible for lump-sUIII leave payments and the majority are eligible for severance pay . The remaining ninety employees, whose positions were affected by the alignment action,were offered employment in other positions.

The .overall impact of the alignment action, according to Colonel Penrod actually reflects an improvement in civilian emplo)'lltent at Goose Air Base, since on December 31st. past,675 civilians were assigned to the 95th. Strategic Wing. The projected assi~ed civilian strength, on Jtme 30th. next,is 724 f.or a gain of 49. This news is quite welc.ome. FURTHER ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS HON. F. W. ROWE : _(!-f'UIISTER OF EDUCATION) : Mr. Speaker, l have the answer to several questions that have been asked by hon. members. In ~iving the answers 95

March 25th. 1971 Tape 18 PK - 3 ., MR. ROWE, F. W. : I am going to take the opportunity here - so that I will not have to repeat ll!YSelf in answering these same questions over and over. MR. QOSBIE: Inaudible. MR. ROWE, F~W. I am using it, it may not be working, I ain sorry. The thing shows red here . MR. CURTIS: It b on. MR. ROWE: F .W. Perhaps the thing was not warmed up. an my hon. friend hear me now? MR, MURPHY: Splendid. ·MR~ ROWE1 Y~W. Fine.

Thank you! ; So ,t~at I will not have to repeat myself in answering similar questions every day perhaps for the next weeks or tnenths or how ever long the session lasts, l want to 111ake a couple of points in answering these questions. Question No. 29,asked by the hon. the ember for Gander.says; what action has been taken on the petition from the people of Northern Arm, presented to the House of Assembly on February 27, 1970 0 protesting closing of the elementary school? There are several questions of that kind on today's Order Paper, Mr. Speaker, so the answer I will give now will apply to those others as well.

Traditionally our Newfoundland people have made petitions, have presented petitions to this House which strickly speaking do not concern the House or perhaps the Government of the Provin~. Frequently we have had petitions dealing with things like television or radio . or postal services or marine wharves and things of that kind. We have. I think. the Rouse traditionally alao has received those petitions , althou~h, strickly speaking we could have rejected them. In the case of this particular petition and others like it they have been refened to the Department of Education .

The Department of Education has done what we have no choice, but to do, under the law and constitution of Newfoundland and Canada, The Departmant of F.ducation,which is another word for the Govern11tent, ~oes not build schools in Newfoundlann. The Department does not operate schools. The Department does nc,t deci.de where schools are built, except for vocational schools. which by mutual nrrcement !)6

HARCfl 25th. 1971 Tape 18 PK - 4 MR. ROWE, P.V. some yeara ago, by unwritten agreement it wa.1Lleft in the bands of the Government, the building of trade schools. I am speaking, of course, now of the building of ordinary schools, elementary and high schools of the Province. Consequently, !)7

March 25 1971 Tape 19 pa1te 1. when petitions of this kind are presented to the Rouse and then referred to the Department of Education we take the only step that we can take under the law and that is ref er those petitions to the Denominational Educational authorities under whom the Boards of Newfoundland operate. That is what is done in every case in respect of pet~tions of this kind requesting eithe r •the building of a school or the replacement of a school or the enlar~ement of a school or anything to do with the building or the operation of a school. That answers No, 29 Mr. Speaker. MR,J.C.CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker. does the Minister's answer mean ~hat in fact the government took no action but passed the buck to the !lenominational EJuca tion41 cOllllllission, is that what the minister's answer means? Is that in essence his his answer? MR.ROWE: Ml'~ Speaker, the hon. gent leman knows the answer to that question as well as I do• he is tryin g now to play, play very ordinary cheap politic s with this. He knows what we can do under the law and he knows what we cannot do , ~e does not need to answer that question, he knows the answer to it.

The ,answer is simple that we do only what we are pe1'1111tted to do and compelled to do under the law and constitution of Newfoundland. It is not a question of passing the buck it is a question of referring it to proper authorities which are the Denominational Authorities. MR.CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, is the minister saying that the government exercises no inf1uence over education in the Province? MR.SPEAKER: We cannot permit a debate on the answer to a question.!! the ..:q~~~ti~ -~ ··has been answered , a supplementary may be asked but we cann ot instigate a debate · on a re.ply to each question or any questioa .

MR. V~.--EARLE; Mr. Speake1:, does not the deparUient of Education have. a co11D11ittee or a Rroup which decides, approves or disapproves the location of schools? MR.ROWE: Mr. Speaker, the answer my hon. friend must be familiar with the Education Act . The only way in vhich the Department of Education comes into 98

March 25 1971 Tape 19 page 2. the picture is that the Departwmt can and does have the right to approve the site, the actual physical site of the school . itselhwithin a community within the area in which it is being built. That is spelled out in the Education Act . The answer to No. 33 Mr. Speaker:

(1) Yea. (2) (a) 48 men getting twelve weeks training period continuous programme new classes every twelve weeks . (

b) Heavy duty truck operators , sixtee n men ~etting four week trainin g period continuous programne with a new class every four weeks.

(3) Yes.

(4) A continuous survey to ascertain emploY'fllent of students following graduation is carried out. The latest coMpleted surveys show, in respect of heavy duty operators sixty to eighty per cent employtnent depending upon season at time of graduation. In resoect of heavy duty drivers up to the present time and since the inceotion of this course in excess of ninety per cent of those trained have found employment .

Question No. 36: This question and others relating to such things for exemple , as the operation of the Uni~ersity or the operation of the Fishery College or the operation of the College of Trades and Technology should , strictly speaking, be addressed to the authorities concerned with their operation. In the case of this particular question this information should be properly obtained from · the denominational education.al authorities whose offices are in St. John's in the Royal Trust Building. However, I can get that information and will attempt to do so.

I can only ask for the information and if they give it to me- I am aure they will _- MR.. BICXMAN: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a su~plementary question to the hon. minister? Do I understand from his answer to the question 36, that as Minister of Education he does not know how many schools and where schools have been built in this Province since January 1, 1970? ls that the answer I am hearin~ over here? 99

March 25 1971 Tape 19 page 3. MR.ROWE: The answer that 1 gave Mr. SpeakeT is not whether or not I know. I know a great deal, have a great deal of information that perhaps it would not be ~roper for me to answer. I know a great deal about the world.ng of the University and ff my hon. friend were to ask me ,for example, how many students &ti the University failed in Chemistry,300 this year.and would I give the House that information! I would, I would in all probability refer him to the University. However I am not quibbling over this I am merely pointing out the principle that is involved .here.

MR.HICKMAN: No princi~le involved at all, lie ought to know where the new schools have been built in Newfoundland and if the minister of Education does not know Mr. Speaker, no one knows. MR. SPEAKER: It is out of order to co111111ent on the answer.I will rep eat once more~ask supplementary questions we cannot have a debate on the answer to a question. a. It is. simple matter that has been stated dozens of times in this House. 1.et us adhere to the rules,please. MR.ROVE: Hr. Speak.er , I have indicated I will get that information and will supply it here.

I will stick to what l said also that there are questions, 111Any questions directed to the .iinister of Education which properly should be addressed to the Denominational Educational Authorit~es. On occasion I will get that information if it ~s practical and convenient to do so. Question No. 62: This question is addressed to tnY hon. colleague the mlniseeT of Provincial Affairs. He has asked me to answe.r it and I am quite happy to do ao .

Perhaps I should -remind the House that we have in Newfoundland a number of Boys Clubs and Boys Organizations and Girls Organizations as well, to which the Government has for many years been making annual contributions . Some of these which come to mind are the largest I suppose would be the St. John's Boys Club in the West End, I believe the first club to get a ~rant was th e Bell Island Boys Club. I think it was the Bell Island Boys Cl~b. the correct name is the Wabana Boys Club. ~ give one to the Boys Club at Carbonear another one. 100

March 25 1971 Tape 19 page 4. the Town of Buckans is another, the Catholic Boys Club of St. John's is another. MR.CR8SBIE: On a point of order. That i s not , the question is could the Government through the member for Crand Falls present a cheque to a musical band from Buchana during the month of December: 1970. The minister is not answering the question he is talking about Boys Clubs all over the island . Either answer the question Mr, Speaker , or the minister should sit down. MR.ROWE: Mr.

Speaker, with respect to Your ~onour I will answer the question as I feel like answering it and I do not need any advice from the hon . member from St . John ' s West on ho~ to answer it. This question was obviou sl y based on a misunderstanding or at least perhaps lack of knowledge of the fact that there is in the town of Buchans a Boys Club and has been for many years there it was.it suffered a brief .interruption due to the tragi c death of the head of the Boys Club up there 1Mr •.. Honell,and it was revived again two years ago. This BoJs Club was one of the,.,oldest Boys Clubs of the Province .

This year a contingen~ ~from the Boys Club ,includin g their band , Buchans was invited t .o St. John's by the St. John's Boys Club to come 1n and participate in some of their activities. At the time of their visit under the leadershi~ of :Mr.

Clayton Hutchings, the well-known Newfoundl and aviator. and who is head of the Boys Club at Buchana ,they requested that they might have their cheque , theit annual cheque or at least part of it. l think there was half of it presented to them during their visit . as part of a~little ceremony connected w£tb ~their visit to this building here,and I was very happy to be able to co- operate with them in presenting it, I think the amount was $1000 . 101

March 25th,, 1971 Tape no 20 Page l Mr. Hickman. A supplementary question. Mr. Speaker, may l ask the hon. minister if the answer to no. 62 (1) is yea OT no? MR. ROWE (F.W.): The answer to no. 62 (1) >1n case my hon . friend did not understand what I said or did not want to underi3tand what I said,i.s no. The answer is no. MR. CROSBIE: What was the amount of the cheque? The hon, minister said, be gave them a cheque. What was the amount of the ~heque? MR. ROWE (F. W. ) : Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend was not listening. The amount of the cheque was $1,000 . MR. CROSBIE: 'Thank you. MR.

ROWE {F.W.): Tbe annual grant to these clubs varies and depends on the population, the relative population. The largest grant would be the St. John's Boys' Club in the West End. t think Bell Island would probably be next to it. The answer to no. 75 I have already given. I have given no. 77. MR. CROSBIE: No. 75 you have not given. MR. ROWE {l'.W.): No. 75 and no. 77 I have already given, Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIE: No action. The answer is no. Is that it? No. 75,no? No. 77, no? MR. ROWE (F.W. ): The answer to no. 83 I have already given. MR. CROSBIE: No, no action , We are marking no action over here. MR.

ROWE (F.W.): There are seve ral other questions to which 1 hope to have the answers within a day or two. HON. J • A NOLAN ( Minister of ECONQMJC DEYEJ.OPHENT) answer to question no. 45 on today's Order Paper by the hon. member for St. John's East, the answer i s none . By the same hon. member another question no. 46 •• 102

March 25th., 1971 Tape no . 20 Page 2 MR. CROSBIE: Does the hon, ainister mean that there are no contracts for paper supplies or the delays will have no affect on the contracts?'Ihere are contracts, are there? MR. NOLAN: t answered the question, Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIE There are no contracts. MR. NOLAN: Question no. 46, asked by the same hon. me.111ber ••• MR. CROSBIE: No contracts, MR, NOLAN: Mr , Speaker, is it possible to answer a few questions without interruption? MR. CROSBIE: Yea, if you will answer them, MR, RICKMAN: If you would answer them. MR, CROSBIE: Answer them, do not. try and bluff us .

We are not going to be \iluffed. MR. NOLAN: Mr. Spea~er, the answer to no . 46, by the hon. member for St, John's East. The cost of the tour in November. 1970 were as follows: Meals $2,538.36 Entertainment 85.00 Local transportation - 167,00 Miscellaneous 270.60 That total is $2,880.96 , MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, if I may, I would like to ask t he hon. the minister where these industrialists went, where did they go, how long they were here, whether any report has been received from them? HR. NOLAN: I will take that as notice, Mr. Speaker. MR.

HICKMAN: Would the hon, minister indicate the name of the organization that originated this tour? MR. CROSBIE: Gourmets Anony1110us. MR, NOLAN: Yes, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. 103

March 25th •• 1971 T~pe no. 20 Page 3 Mr. Nolan. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador are the group that initiated the tour. MR, BICKMAN: Would the hon, minister indicate to the House the nclll\e of the fi'['l]l that was retained by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to initiate and organize this tour? MR. NOLAN: That is better. The answer to the question of the hon. member, Mr. Speaker is; T. E. McLaughlin and Associates. MR. HICKMAN: A further supplementary quest ion. Is that the same T. E.

McLaughlin and Associates that use to be retained in the province of Nova Scotia to try to lure industry to Cape Bre ton Island? MR. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker. I would suggest that the hon. member refer his qu~stion to the T. E. McLaughlin and Associates. I am not qualified to speak for them. MR. HICKMAN: Did the hon. the minister. as Minister of Economic Development, retain them or recoUDDend them or not? Mll. NOLAN: When they wet:e fit:st engaged. 1 was not Minister of Econolllic Development. l would like very much to go on to the next question, Mr. Speaker. MR. MARSHALL: A supplementary question. Mr.

Speaker, on that answer, Meals, $2,538 - how 111any meals? I mean do we bring in people to find jobs or do we bring in a whole employment force? MR. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, I am not trying to be evasive . I do not have the nU111ber of mellls here in answer to the question. I do not have the number of t~ bags. I just do not have it. Now1 Mr. Speaker, another question on the Order Paper, no, 60,asked by the hon. member for St. John's East. The answer to part one, . 350,000 gallons, imperial gallons or 101 000 barrels. The answer to part (2) • .5. 6 cents per gallon. MR. MARsHALl.: Mr.

Speaker, would the lllinister tell us from whom,which fim the fuel was purchased? 104

Karch 25th •• 1971 Tape no. 20 Page 4 MR. NOLAN: I believe I have that infonnation, Mr. Speaker, in another question that 1 have coming up. If I am not mistaken and I may be, I would think that it may be Golden Eagle. I would be more than happy to check on that. Mr. Speaker, no 88,by the hon. member for St. John's East,on today's Order Paper. The answer to part (1), Seventy. The answer to part (2) $642,000. Seventy employees. Correct. Mr. Speaker, no. 95 on today's Order Paper,by the hon. member for St. John's East , which is in five parts: No. (1) the answer is, yes. No.

(2) Golden Eagle Refining CottJPany. (3)(

a) Up to 30th June, 1971; (3) (b) 24 . 5 million i~perial gallons, which is about 700,000 barrels Mr. Speaker; (J)(c) 5.6 cents per gallon, and I think that is about $1 .93, approximately a barrel. Did 1 go to fast on that, Mr. Speaker? MR. SMALLWOOD: Today it is $4.90. · Today that is the market price. MR. NOLAN: Continuing, the answer to part

(4) If so were tenders called ? Yea. The next part of that answer is six. That is "yes" and "six." No. 5 is yes. Question no. 96 on today's Order Paper, tabled by the hon. member for St. John's East. The answers are as follows: (It is in four parts) no . (1), no; no. (2) no; no. (3) yes; no.(4} _yea. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker , would the hon. the minister tell us what the lost was to the Government as a result of its dealings with Mowhawk Sports Equipment limited? MR. NOLAN: I have no knowledge of a lost . MR.

MARSHALL: What monies were expended in an effort to ·attract Mowhawk Sports Equipment Limited to Newfoundland? MR. NOLAN: I suppo.se, to be perfectly honest, I could say that there may have been a number of phone calls involved. But other than t hat 1 have no knowledge of it. Question no . 98 on today's Order Paper. Hr. Speaker, from the hon. member 105

March 25th •• 1971 Tape no 20 Page S Mr. Molan. fot St. John's East again. In two parts; no. (1) $1.00 per year for ten years for buildings dl0 1 6111 8121 8131 814 (I almost feel like saying bingo) - $1.00 per year for ninety-nine years on building 820 • .. 106

March 25th. 1971 Tape. 21 HR. NOLAN: The ans"'er to part two of that ques t ion is "none," MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. PK - 1 MR. NOLAN: Question No, 108,on today's Order Paper, Mr. Speaker, from th~ hon. the member for St . John's East,in four parts; (1) the answer is "no."

(2) Not applicable. (3) $2,660. And (4) "No." Question No. 110 1 again on today's Order Paper,from the hon. ~ember of St. John's East - MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question on Question No. 108 . The first part of the question the mins-fter said, "no ," it did not renew their contract. But in three• the minimum monthly now contracted for is $2,660. Wel l, that means that there is a contract now,is there? There !S -~O ~ontract, but the minister said that they are paying $2,660 a month, the l!linimum. MR.

NOLAN: I may need some clarification on this, these were the figures supplied to me by the officials concerned. But , I will certainly be most happy, Mr. Speaker, to check on this information.in case there is a contradiction there, as suggested by hon. friend opposite,and I will be happy to bring it fo-rward at the next session of this House. Now the next question is 110,on today's Order Paper,asked by the hon. member for St . John's East , and the answer is; it is planned that the Newfoundlan d and L.abrador Power Commission will extend the electricity to Purbeck's Cove in the calandar year of 1971.

It bas already been announced - ~,:.\ :_ Question No. 113 7on today .'s Order Paper ,agai n from 111y hon. friend the 111ember for St. John's East, the answer;the cotnnnmity of Westport was provided with electricity by the Newfoundland and Labrador Power C0111111ission on the 2nd. of December 1970. Question No. 115 ,again by the hon . the member for St. John's East ,on today's Order Paper, it is not planned,for the information of my hon. friend opposite, to take any further action in this matter, as the people of .lersey Harbour have resettled elsewhere. 107

March 25th. 1971 Tape 21 PK - 2 MR. R. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I wonder is thia part of the Government's plan to force people to resettle? MR. CROSBIE! Inaudible. MR. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, if I may continue to answer - AN HON • MEf-'BER: Inaudible . MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NOLAN: Question No. 116 again on today's Order Paper and again asked by my hon. friend, - the hon. member for St. John's East. The answer the Community of Furby's Cove was provided ~1th elec tricity by the Newfound1and and Labrador Power Col1111!ission,on the 23rd. of December 1970. MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. MR. COLLINS: Inaudible.

MR, NOLAN: Question No. ll7 1 on today's Order Paper,agaln from the hon. member for St . John's East. · It is a three part question. The answer to part

(1) Seventy -five.

(2) Seventy. (3) $~~2,000 . Question No. 130 of today's Order Paper,asked again by the hon. member for St. John's East. It is an eight part question, answer to part (1) $i.oo. (2) $1.00. • MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. MR. NOLAN: That maybe the amount in arrears. But that i s the infomation I have. l will check that out, Part

(3) What is the area of the building in square feet? I understand it is about 48,701. MR. COLLINS: Approximately? MR. NOLAN: Approximately, It may be exactly, but I am not quite sure. Next

(4) Hamon Corporation .

(5) The answer is "none." (6) "No."

(7) Not yet determined. (8) "none. '' Question No. 134 of today' s Order Paper , from the hon. the member for St, John's East . In two parts, the answer "none• 11 "none. 1' Perhaps, I could amplify on that a little, ''none ," "none." But a little information I do have ,for the benefit of the members, the hon. members of the Rouse, is that there has been a study or there was in the autumn of 1969 , which indicated 108

March 25th. 1971 Tape 21 PK -3 MR. NOLAN: that the twenty-five degree fahrenbeit warmer water entering Conception Bay at the plant will be dissipated by surrounding conditions vith:in a radius of 3000 ft and a depth of three feet. That is the information I am provided with and some notes that 1 have. And also 7in connection with part (2) 1we are not aware of any detrimental effects to be expected. MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. MR. NOLAN: I do not think so. I believe . we had another contract with someone else . MR.. W. MARSHALL: A supplementary question, Mr.

Speaker, this particular report that was received has it been found to be factµal? I mean has the report that there is going to be no effect upon the increase in the water temperature and effect m the area,has it actually been found to be factual? Has there been teats made since it went j..nto operation? MR. NOLAN: To the best . of my knowledge , it \IOuld have had been checked and I would ass\Jll\e factual. It is monitored continuously, lam informed by my hon. friend and it was by the Bedford Institute, I believe. MR. SMALLWOOD: Continual, but not necessarily continuous. MR.

NOLAN: Question No. 147 on today's Order Paper, a.gain from the hon. member for St. John's East. For the year ended March 31st . 1970; (

a) the net profit before interest expense is $4,740,526. And the second part of that answer; the net loss after interest expense is $150,428. Incidentally , the Annuai Report of the Newfoundland and Labrador Power Comtnission will be submitted and presented 1 o f course 1 to this Rouse and the infonnation that I have just given 1 in addition to other infonnation ,will be provided therein. MR. CROSBIE: In arriving at the net profit, does the commission include as revenue the amotmt paid by the Government of Newfowidland to cover subsidy on power sold to ERCO? Is that included in the revenue of the commission? MR. NOLAN: I vill accept that as notice of question. 109

March 2,. 1971, Tape 22, Page 1 - apb MR. J . A. NOLAN: Number 154, this is the final one I have Mr. Speaker, again on today's Order ~aper. and from the hon . member from St . John's East. The answers to the questions are as follows, it is in three parts. A study ia being conducted by the Ontario Mushroom Co .Ltd.

(2) The study is not yet comp.leted.

(3) No Government expenditure has been incurred to date. !!_ON. S . A NEARY (Minister of Social Services and Rehabilitation) : Mr . Speaker, 1 have the answers to a number of questions appearing on today's Order Paper. 1 think they are all asked by my shadow, the hon. member for St . John's East Extern. AN HON. 11:EMBER: The shadowy l!lember. MR. A. J.MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order . Is this the proper way to address an hon. member of this Bouse; ~ho asked the question? AN HON. MEMBER: The shadow of the Minister of Welfare. MR.

MURPHY: Come on, try to be a little bit decent in the House of Assembly. whatever you do elsewhere. Mlt. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if I may continue . It is not original, the shadow , because that is what the Leader of the Opposition, his leader announced him ••• The answer to question no. 71 Mr. Speaker, I would like to table it•. MR •. CROSBIE: What is the number? lm., NEARY: No. 71. Roys!- home and training school $15 .06. Girls' home and training school, $10.78. Quest~on no. 11. for th~ convenience of tbe members of the opposite side I would like to table the answer to that one. Mlt. CROSBU:: MR. NEARY: Mlt.

CROSBIE: MR. NEARY: MR. CROSBIE: MR. NEARY: What is the number again? 11, no. 11. No. 11. And no , lS, The Minister is going a bit too fast for us, No. 11 was the second answered. These are not answers, these are the numbers of questions. Mlt. CROSBIE: Which you are answering . 110

March 25, 1971, Tape 22, Page 2 - - apb MR,Bl CICEY: When an answer ia tabled, ia it not read to give members an opportWlity ••••••••••••• 7 MR. SPEAKER: Not necessarily. MR. CROSBIE: Is that being tabled? AN HON. MEMBER: Yea . MR. NEARY: Well, we have done our homework,Mr. Speaker, I trust the 111embers of the opposite side ••••••• • • MR. SPEAKER: is sufficient. Call the number of the question, it will be tabled and that MR . NEARY: The answer to no. 15,~r. Speaker, I would like to table. The answer to no. 14 on today's Order Paper. The answer to Question no, 12. MR. CROSBIE: What is the answer to 14? AN HON.

MEMBER: Tabled. MR. CROSBIE: Were a number of boys hospitalized? MR. NEARY: Yes. The answer to part one is yes. Part two, four to twelve hours. Part three, yes, No, 12, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the answer to that question, Question no. 18, requiring quite a lengthy reply, Mr. Speaker I would like to table the answer for the convenience of the members of the Opposition, MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, could I ask the minister how many copies be is tabling? Are you just tabling the one copy? MR. NE.ARY: Two copies Kr. Speaker, I think that is in accordance with the House. MR.

SPEAKER: I would like to request all - this is possibly the roost appropriate time t~ say it, here while the matter is being raised. If all hon. ministers . tabling questions, should make, for the clerk's office, when they table their copies . table it in seven copies, then it would expedite the distribution both to the press, to the members of the Opposition or any other concerned member who wishes to see the answer . ~e have a small staff in the clerk's office, and to copy them and distribute them is a big chore which takes some time to do, So, if all hon . ministers or anybody 111

- March 25 1 1971, Tape 22 1 Page 3 -- apb else who is tabling the answers to questions would make seven copies, it would be 111Uch appreciated and very helpful to the office of the clerk. MR. ROWE (F .W .) : Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to question no. 43, on today's Order Paper, asked by the hon. member for Burin. What was the amount of the Government's contribution towards the cost of the Education Conference at Gander in January 1971? The answer is none, nothing. ~ut _now again, I should put in a word of explanation here because •• •••• • • AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. ROWE: I did not get that Mr.

Speaker. MR. SMALLWOOD {J.R.): Not one nickle. MR:. ROWE: What was the amount of the Government's contribution ? The Govemment made no contribution .to that conference , Mr. Speaker , I should explain here perhaps that the Government does make a contribution to the faculty of education at the university, or at least to the educational research branch,! think it is called, under Dr. Warren at the university. We do make contributions to them,in respect of their projects,that affect . or have some relation s to the needs of the Department of Education.

They . in turn, decide what they are going to do with the various funds they have at tneir disposal. They get funds from the university itself ,- and sometimes from outside interests. They get small grants from the Government, and they decide whether they are going to have a conference here or undertake a research project somewhere else. In this case that was held under their aegis and we did not make any direct contribution to it. Question no . 2, therefore does not appl y at all . Question 3. do the Government receive any report or recommendations?

The answer to that is that a report was published by the extension service of Memorial Univer s ity . It was made public to everybody. Question 4, how many civil servants employed by the Department of Education at Confederation Building? I do not know if the asker of the question is attaching any specific importance to the tenn Confederation Building or not. AN RON . MEMBER: None. MR. ROWE: None? Well, the answ~r literally is ( 1) from Confederation 112

March 25, 1971, Tape 22, Pge 4 - apb Building . There were other education officials there. l 8111 pretty sure our officials from Central Newfoundland attended that conference, but, only one attended• and I believe that was our chief superintendant,Mr. Ackerman , who attended from Confederation Building. HON. _G.A. FRECKER (Minister of ~rovincial Aff~irs): Mr. Speaker, l have three questions on the Order Paper for today, addressed to the Minister of Provincial Affairs. 62 has already been answered by the hon. Minister of Education. It should have been addressed to h:iln in the first place.

Question 66 , the information requested • •••••••• AN BON. MEMBER: 'Would the hon. minister just state by whom please. DR. FRECKER: Certainly. Question 62. as addressed by the hon. member for St. John's Centre, and question no. 66, as addressed by the same hon. member, the information sought should be obtained,! would suggest.from the Regional O·ffice of t he Dominion Bureau of Statistics . We do not have this information. Question no. 69, addressed by the same hon. member, the member for St. John's Centre, should be addressed to the appropriate department, not the Department of Provincial Affairs.

We have nothing to do with this particular item of expenditure. MR. MURPHY: (Inaudible) DR. FRECKER~ As a supplementary question? MR. MURPHY: A5 a supp l ementary question. DR. FRECKER: I would suggest the Department of Finance might be a 111ore appropriate department to give this information . MR. MURPHY: this. Economic Development or the drama departmen t or anything like AN HON. MEMBER: We wil1 soon find out. we will soon find out. BON, L.R.CURTIS (Minister of ·Justice): Mr.

Speaker, in answer to question no. 38, I am advised that the work has been completed, or practically completed , and that the first two volumes now are ready for the press, As soon as that has been done, the rest of the work will be put in the hands of the printers. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, the hon . the ~lnister told us about exactly the

March zs. 1971, Tape 22 1 Page 5 -- apb •- thing eight mntha ago, that the woTlt waa completed and we were just avaiti'Dg the printer. What printer an we awaiting• and bow long do we have to await him? MR. ROWE ('F .. W.): Mr. Speaker, on a point of Order, 1s this debate? 114

March 25th, 1971 Tape 23 JH - l MR. SPEAKER: We point out time and time again that the answer is not subject to debate. If there is a supplementary question let it be a supplementary question but not gene r ating a debate. This is what we are trying to avoid during this question period. KR. CROSBIE: 1 would like to ask a question, Mr. Speaker. Who is the printer involved and how long have these volumes been at the printers waiting to be printed? MR. CURTIS: The delay, Mr. Speaker, is not due to the printer.

It is due to the fact that certain other legislation had to be brought into force and •s legislat1on is being printed alphabetically all those items within that period of time had to be brought into effect and the C0111111ittee had to know just where they weTe, The delay is not in the hands of the printers. · MR.· BICKMAN: I have a question, Mr. Speaker. llave all the Acts to be included in volumes one and two been proclaimed? MR. CURTIS: The C0111111ittee has been advised as to the Government's intention with regard to each of those Bills being questioned.

In other words they can assume that they will be proclaimed if they are not actually proclaimed. MR. MURPHY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, Will these be in English and- French as sugg ested by the Premier three years ago in the Rouse? MR. CURTIS; I do not know. We are thinking about putting it in Yiddish. MR. SMALLWOOD: Or St. John's Centre. Mlf. MURPHY: That would be something. We would understand it then. MR. MARSHALL: Mr •. Speaker, before we go into Orders of the Day I would like to ask a question of the Premier.

Ras the Federal Government informed the Provincial Govermnent that it must receive a guarantee from the Province before it will build t he wharf facilities at Come-by-Chance and if so what effect will that have on the project? MR. SPEAKER: That question should go on the Order Paper. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, the answer is no. MR.. CROSBIE: The answer is no. What answer is no? MR. SMALLWOOD: The answer to the question is no. MR. CROSBIE: The Federal Government has not requested our guarantees? 115

March 25th, 1971 Tape 23 JM. - 2 MR. SMALLWOOD: Right. No. MR. CROSBIE: The Government will not give it? HR.. SMALLWOOD: Right again. No. MR. CROSBIE: We are heart to heart and mind to mind. MR. SMALLWOOD: We are not ask-.:to iive it and we are not going to give it. MR. CROSBIE: That is the stuff . MR. SMALLWOOD: It does not even arise, it is only newspaper yanis. MR. CROSBIE: We will back you a hundred thousand per-cent. Now, Mr. Speaker, we are glad to see our Premier take this firm stand. Mr. Speaker, a question for the Minister of Education,although I do not know whether this comes under hi111.

Could the Minister bring the Rouse up -to-date on the position in connection with collective bargaining of the NTA? It has been reported that the talks have broken down and have been cofflpletely fruitless. What is the present status of these negotiations? I may have the wrong Minister, it 111&.ybe the Premier. MR. ROWE: There are two points, Mr. Speaker, in answer to that.

Number one ordinarily that question should be directed to the president or the acting president of the Treasury Board and in any case I do•not think it would. be in the public interest for me to comment on that matter at this time. , Humber three the hon. gentleman knows, of course. what the situation is. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker , supplementary to that question. Who is the acting ~resident of the Treasury Board? Is that the Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources? MR. ROBERTS: The hon. Mlnister made a statement as acting president of the Treasury Board. MR.

CROSBIE: I did not know what he was lftaking a statement as, we just listened to it. Mr. Speaker, in connection with the same subject; Has the Minister any co11111ent to make on the statement of the NTA president that these talks were completely fruitless? Did the Minister think they were fruity or fruitless? MR. ROWE: The answer is no, Mr. Speaker. 116

March 25th. 1971 Tape 23 JM - 3 MR. COLLINS: Mr. SpeakeT, I have a question for the Minister of Justice . ln view of the very unfavourable reflections which might have been cast in: tbe town of Gander, the town in which I live and the district which I represent, arising out of the great amount of adv~rse publicity surrounding alleged thr·eats against the Premier and the possible damaging accusations against the young Newfoundlander, "ould the Minister be prepared to make a atatement to the House, explaining to the Rouse and the people of Newfoundland just what the full facts of the case are1 MR.

SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Labrador Affairs . Could he tell the House how many people ar e now ~ployed by Javelin Forest Products, Limited,in their logging operation at Happy Valley and whether or not they are now recruiting loggers and how many men might be needed? MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. l would like to direct a question to the hon, the Minister of Realth, Could he tell the House what interim measures have been taken with respect to the fyeezing of doctors earnings between now and when the new fee

schedule is negotiated? MR. ROBERTS: Well, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that I read a somewhat lengthy statement at 3 o'clock.which has been circulated, if the hon. gentleman does not have a copy I will send him one but it ssys in quite explicit detail exactly what steps have been taken,with effect from the first of April~which for the hon . gentleman's ~llumination is six days from today. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon . the Premier.

Can hydro-electric power be exported from this Province , from the Lower Churchill or any other location within the Province,without the consent of the Govern­ ment of Newfoundland? MR. SMALLWOOD : No. MR. CROSBIE: Can the Government give any such consent? MR. SMALLWOOD: 1 will answer that at the right time. This is not the right time . 117

March 25th, 1971 Tape 23 JM - 4 MR. COLLINS: Mr, Speaker. before you go into Orders of the Day I beg leave to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent importance. The unemployment rate in Newfoundland as reflected by the most recent DBS statistics shows the seasonally adjusted rate to be fifteen point tw per-cent of the working force. As we all know the actual unemployment rate is considered to be much higher and possibly could be in the vicinity of twenty-five per-cent or thi~ty per-cent. MR. ROBERTS: A point of order, Sir. Mr .

Speaker, as I recall the rule 1 the hon. gentleman has first to ask leave and then if four Honour feels that he may state the case,then Your Honour will invite him to state the case. Re does not state the case in asking if Your Honour will grant him leave to state the case . MR. SPEAKER: Order please: All the hon. member has to do is to state what the subject matter is and the reason for his debate but he cannot make his speech . If be is given leave 7 then he goes into his debate and he quotes his statistics.

Tell us what the subje~t matter is as to why be should ask leave to move the adjournment of the House at this time to discuss a matter. What is the urgent matter? This is all that the hon. member is entitled to tell us at this time. MR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, with respect, Sir, ' looking over Hansard we find that on numerous occasions in the past two or t~ree years when such motions were put that considerable explanation was permitted 0 ~owever I will abide by your ruling and I would say that this lack of employment for the workers of the Province constitutes a great hardship on our people,while Government fails to eake any steps to counteract this with measures which will provide perm.anent jobs. MR. SPEAKER: It is not necessary for me to read this to the House again.

The hon. member bas stated his case as to why he wishes to ask leave to move the adjournment of the ijouse. I do not think and my ruling is that . ic, this is not necessary at this particular time because we have the Address in Reply, lt is already item one on the Order Paper and we have already, lt is not because we do not have time. We obviously have time. We have 118

March 25th, 1971 Tape 23 JM - 5 MR, SPEAKER: gone into a record this afternoon in not getting into the Orders of the Day and it took us two hours. The matter may~e urgent but the urgency of debating it to the exclusion of all other business of the House I do not think exists. lberefore I am not even asking the House to say whether they willRiveJ@a i e or not, The leave is denied as far as the Chair is concerned.

MOTION: The hon. the Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources, on behalf of the hon. the Minister of Finance,to 1110ve: "That the House resolve itself into a Coinmittee of the 'Whole to consider certain resolutions for the granting of interim supply to Her Majesty," MR. SPEAKER: The motion now is that we go into Committee on the Interim Supply Bill .

Now before we go any further on this I would like to say that we have had on a number of occasions, quite a number of occasion~ I would not say misunderstandings but one person had an idea of how this should be done and it has been done and somebody else had another idea and it has been done in different ways on different occasions, That,cannot be denied . The correct procedure .as I see it from the Chair ,is that we go into interim supply in the same manner as you would go into any other Supply Bill .

I think that can be substantiated by the rules plus the fact that your general debate on the resolution itself takes place in the Committee. It is examined bit by bit, the Bill itself is distributed when the House goes in on the resolution and then when we come out , finally having reported the tesolution back to the House itself , the Bill is introduced and gets its first, second and third reading fortbwith,11o7ithout going back to second reading, without going into Co111111ittee. These are the rules provided but ve have departed from them at times , over my objection ., but it has been done in other ways.

There is no stifling of debate but the Supply Bill, 1 contend , and the rules v.crify thia ; that the Supply Bill is studi ed in every detail in Co11nittee therefore it is not necessary to go into a second reading on the Bill which gives effect to the Resolution that has just been passed and we are wasting time repeating the same, ·,going over the same ground, repeating the same argument , to have it to go into second reading, I wanted this to be clear before we had aone any further alona the line in respect to this particular ~esolution. 119

March 25th., 1971 Tape no. 24 Page l MR. EARLE: Hr. Speaker, may I direct~ question on that matter , in a general way l noes th:ia pr-.clude and exclude anv debate whatsoever on the appropriateness of having this particular Bill brought in at this time? I mean ,with ~articular reference to the fact that it is presented to the House before Supplementary Supply has been passed, Are we permitted to debate this?

MR, SPEAKER: The resolution will be before the House shortly , The motion is that the House resolve itself into a Collllllittee of the Whole to consider certain Resolutions for the granting of Interim Supply to Her Majesty. I am only talking about after we go into Committee of Supply and we debate the ResolutiOD with the Bill attached, Then it is not necessary, after the Bill is introduced giving effect the Resolution, to go over the whole kit and cabood l e once more, I do not think that is necessary. But the motion before the Chair is that the Rouse resolve itself into a Committee of Supply.

If anybody has any remarks to lllake on that particular motion, well then,if and when it comes before t he House, as to the advisability of doing it or as to the advisability of doing it all, there is nothing to stop debate of that natur e , MR, CALLAHAN: Hr. Speaker, I am to inform the ' Bouse. I have a message from His Honour . the Lieutenant Governor. MR. SPEAKER: Before we proceed any further, there is a point of order and there is something to debate before the hon , member presents his ~esoluti on . MR. CROSBIE: Hr. Speaker, we. want to debate the principle of this Bill.

Then we want to debate the details of expenditure under each department. Now if we are not allowed to debate the principle of this Bill in Committee on the Resolution, then we must debate the principle of the Bill now. That is the position as 1 see it. If the position is that we can debate the principle of the Bill, when it is in comndttee, that is fine . ls that the position? 1~0

March 25th., 1971 Tape no 24 Page 2 HR. SPEAKER: Well this is what I have been trying to point out, possibly inadequately,that the 'Whole principle of the Bill is debated, It is not confined to ~n! little issue,as I see it. When you examine the Bill,bit by bit, there is not just one principle. The only principle is that you bring in Interim Supply. That is the only princip le in the Bill. It is the details and every single one of them i s examined and each one is a detail, "5 it were,as a principle all of its own.

That is if you want to relate ~t to a certain department, But the principle cf a Resolution such as this is just that we bring in Interim Supply. Now if somebody wants to debate now whether we bring 1n Interim Supply or not, they do it before the Resolution goes into committee. _HR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker. I would like to address myself t o that question and perhaps my hon. friend - before we get into that, Mr. Speaker, I had thought that the House Leader was going to call (1) and that it was gahg to go into Interim Supply after (1), Has he changed his -mind on that? MR. SPEAKER: HR.

CROSBIE: Number ·(9) has been called, All right, Mr. Speaker no (9) bas been called. What I want to address myself to now is whether the House should grant Interim Supply or not? Mr. Speaker the House,for some. reason unknown to us but known only to tho se in the Govemment,is not called together until the 22nd day of March, 1971. It could have been ca~d a month earlier. It could have beea called two months earlier. It should have been called a month earlie r or two months earlier. There was no reason why it could not have been • .

The financial year, 1970-71 ends next week, I believe it is next Wednesday; the 31st. day of March, 1971, the financial ,yeu ends. This House does not have before it now any es.timates. We have the estimates for last year, We have no estimates for this year, for the year collling up, none, We do not have the Auditor General's Report for last year ending March 31st., 1970. That is not t abled in the House of Assembly. We do not have the Auditor General ' s Report nor the Public Accounts. 1.21.

March 25th., 1971 Tape no 24 Page 3 Mr. Crosbie, Under the law, they do not have to be tabled for fifteen days from the time this liouse meets , In other words not until ~ight days after the end of the financial year do they have to be tabled. We do not have that before us. We do not have the Public Accounts. We do not have the Auditor General's Report for last year. We do not have any estimates for this year , But the Government, Mr.

Speaker, have a bare-faced affronty to come_ in, call this House together on ,the 22nd, day of Karch and then on the 25th, day of March, six days before the end of the financial year, bring in Interim Supply and ask this House to vote. We do not yet know how much they are going to ask for. Last year they asked for $60 million, They are not going to give us any d.etails of the expenditure. They are going to ask the representatives of the people, elected to this Rouse,to approve $60 million, $70 million or $80 Dlillion for the Government to apend,without an estimate before the House as to how it is to be spent.

The procedure in the Parliament of Canada, Mr. Speaker, is very plain. The esti.mates are provided. Members of the Parliament at Ottawa have the estimates for the year when the Government ask for Interim Supply. They just do not vote it blindly. It is only in this House, wlrl.ch is called and has been tor twenty-two years, called the 2eople's House, The people have very littie to do with it. A Government comes in with such bare-faced adacity and says to the ordinary members of the Bouse;"we want $60 million or $70 million to spend in the next two or three IDQnths.

We are not going to give you one detail of how we are going to spend it. We are not going to tell yqu one word about what lole spend it on, In fact, you will not even have the Auditor Gene~al'a Report from the .previous year. In fact, you will not have the Public Accounts. They will not be tabled . In fact you will not have the Lieutenant Governor's · Warrants." We do not even know how 111uch, Mr. Speaker, the Government spent this year. We know what vaa voted in the supply Sills last 122

March 25th., 1971 Tape no 24 Page 4 Mr. Crosbie. year. We know that. But we also know that the record of this Government is• scandal in that every year it spends $30 million, $40 million, $50 millions never voted by the members of the Bouse, but Lieutenant Governor's Warrants, under the Revenue and Audit Act. The record is scandalous. It gets more scandalous each year , as we go along. There is not a Lieutenant Governor's Warrant filed here in the House of Assembly yet, Mr. Speaker.

We do not know whether in the year just ending that the Government spent $5 million, I $10 mill.in~, $15 million, $20 million, $30 million, $40 million, $50 million , $60 million. It could be hundreds of millions that the Govemment spent last year by Lieutenant Governor's Warrants, that we do not know about. The Government now come 1D to this House of Assembly, which is supposed to control the purse strings.

With its great 1114jority and its arrogance, after twenty-two years, its great arrogance , it says to the members of this Bouse that we, are going to have another $70 million or $80 lllillion to spend next year. You give us the $70 million or $80 million or we will sit twenty­ four hours a day until we get it. That is the way, Mr. Speaker, the spending of the public money is approached in this Province. Look at the record in Interim Supply last year. Last year there was voted so- $60 odd million - $61 million. We were force\ Mr. Speaker, last year in

an act imparalleled in the Canadian Parliamentary tradition. We were forced by the Govemment because certain IDl!mbers of the House wanted to go off to Paris and London, so- called negotiations that had to be carried out in March. of 1970 in the oil refinery. They put the gun to our heads. I think it was on March 11th last year and told us; "give us Interim Supply or we are going to make you sit all night." I ha'le so _many notes here, Mr. Speaker, that it will take me a minute to get to that part.icular piece of audacity. Yes, 1970, $16,618,000 - three weeks before the end of t be financial year last year, because certain gentleman wanted to have an Easter 123

March 25th •• 1971 Tape no. 24 Page 5 Mr. Cro.sbie. in 'Paris or London or somewhere or an Ap,ril in Portugal - we know the minister is getting close to a honeymoon, so he is thinking of April io "Portugal. We wish him well. Mr. Speaker. last year. three weeks before the end of the financia. year. the Government forced this Bouse to kick up $61 million. It did uot present us then with an estimate, but at least, ve had the Lieutenant Governor's Warrant to look at . At least we had the ~uditor General's Report. Now this year,on the 25th , March - now, perhaps, the people of Newfoundland do not care.

That is the theory the Government operate on. The Government operate on the theory that the people of Newfoundland are stupid; that the people of Newfoundland do not care how their money is spent. By and large, they do not have large incomes,so they worry little what the Government spend. The Government forget that everybody in Newfoundland pays the seven per cent, ~ ~ R, tax, which takes quite a bite out of their pockets no matter how poor they are. They pay the tremendous gasoline tax and the other taxes we have here. I think they do care abobt how the Government treat the lllembers of this House.

Here we are today , Mr. Speaker, the Ro!solution is that we go into Committee on Interim Supply. The Government will get up. I can hear the hon. the Premier now. Tears will run down our cheeks as he talks about the poor Civil Servants and teachers that will not be paid , if we do uot vote Interim Supply bt next 'Wednesday. 124

March 25th. 1971 Tape 25 PK - 1 MR. CROSBIE: That is not the point .•at .issue. The point at issue is why does not the Government conduct itself in accordance with parliamentary tradition and principle? Why does it not have the estimates presented to the Rouse? Why were we not called together three or four weeks ago or six or eight weeks ago? Why were we kept imtil March 22nd. 1971 before the Rouse was called together? What prevented the House from meeting and dealing with the esti~s? I What prevented the Auditor General"s Report being presented and the Public Accounts . and the rest of it?

Why is the Government come into the House now and giving us only four days to consider interim supply? Are the Lieutenant Governor's warrants going to be tabled here today, Mr. Speaker? They must be ready . The Government has those warrants . They have been spending money by ~rarrants since the House closed last July . Now under the leiislation they have fifteen days . from the day the House opens to table them . That does not mean to say that , they have to 'wait , fifteen days.

Why have not the Government got just the common decency and courtesy to table the Lieutenant-Governor's warrants today, so we can even have a look at them end see how much the Government spent last year ' before we st.art voting them money to spend next year? Mr, Speaker, there is an interesting report in the paper last night, New Brunswick moves to strenghten the Auditor General ' s office. That is what New Bnmswick is doing .

And one of the tbiJ!gs that the Government in New Brunswick is doing is bringing in legislation requiring the Government to bring i.n a special Appropriation · Act each year to account for any special warr11I1t passed by the Cabinet to cover expenses not included in the budget, Our Government does not do that. The Government tables it in the House. The Government tables them. · MR. SMALLWOOD: Known as supplementary supply. 't-f"R. CRO~BIE: The Government tables the warrants to the Ilouse each year. 't-'R. ~HALLWOOD: Yes and brings in supplementary supply. MR. CROSRIE: Supplementary supply : 125

March 25th. 1971 Tape 25 PK - 2 MR. SMALLWOOn: They are beginnin~ to catch up with us. Read it right .. through. They are beginning to catch up with us. MR. CRO~BIE: If they ever begin to catch up nth the. hon. the Premier they will be in as bad a shape as we are. MR. SMALLWOOD: They are big reforms described last night - a description of what we now have or have had for ye;rs blown up by the oratory of a member sitting in this Rouse . MR. CROSBIE: Or ignored for years. MR. SMALLWOOD: Not ignored, carried out. MR. CROSBIE: Under the current set up Mr.

Si mard said, "the ministers are not required to present supplementary spending estimates to the Legislature. " AN HON. MEMBER: They ue in Nevfoundland . MR. CROSBIE: Let me ~et to all of that, vill you. Perhaps the minister will have to wait and see. MR. SMALL~OOD: I have read the piece in the paper. MR. CROSBIE: The hon. gentleman wants to speak, go ahead. When he is finished let me know. MR. ROBERTS! I am readin~ the Mental Healtb Act. MR. CROSBIE: That is a good Act for the hon. the minister to read . Re may very well end up in an institution, if he does not keep reading it. MR.

SMALLWOOD: Not the Hiniater of Health will end up in a mental hospital. MR •. CROSBIE: Gue.as who? MR. SMALLWOOD: Yes. MR. CROSBIE: Is it senility. MR. SPEAKER: Order,please! MR . CROSBIE: Somebody is suffering from senility. MR. SPEARER: (NOEL): May I take this opportunity to say that visitors to the House are not suppose to make their presence known. And may I ask the hon. member to please carry on with his sp~ech. MR. CROSBIE: Thank you. ~r. Speaker. 126

Karch 25th. 1971 Tape 25 MR. CROSBU:: And are, cherefore, p~rhaps, less inclined to live withiTI their budget estimates. PK - 3 Now, Mr. Speaker, we will get a Supplel!lentary Supply Bill later this year.treated in exactly the same fashion as the Interiffi SU1)ply. Will we get the details of how the Government spent the money, the extra money? Not on your life. We will get a little heading in the Supplementary Supply Bill, Department of Health $10,550 ,000, Department of Mines, Agricult ure and Resources, pikers, $4·...1111111on or $5 111illion, 'Economic Development that might be f rom $1 million to $40 million.

If the Premier ts gone this year, it will probably be $1 million. It would have had been $40 million usually in other years. I eaid the Premier is gone, I mean as a new minister. So Supplementary Supply is treated in this Bouse exactly, there are no details of expenditu re given. MR. SMALLWOOD: The Premier is not gone, as the hon. gentleman has good Yeason to know. MR. CROSBIE: The Premier is going. Going, going, gone, the auctioner will say. MR. SMALLWOOD: MR. CROSBIE: MR. SMALLWOOD: MR. CROSBIE: MR. S~ALLWOOD: MR. CROSBIE: a good cause. Yes. The auctioner • s hammer falls when the election ts held this year.

The hon . gentleman bas tried hard - Going , going. gone. He will continue to fail. Well in a good cause.I would not mind fai1ing continuely in MR. SMALLWOOD: The hon. gentleman is getting used to them. MR. 1'1URPHY: Inaudible. MR. SMALLWOOD: It is beccnning a habit. Losing. MR. CROSBIE: ~r. Speaker, they gave the first readin g to legislation to strengthen the Auditor General's office and make the Government accountable to the House for special warrants . This Government is not accountable to the Rouse for Sf'ecial warrants. 12 7

March 25th . 1971 Tape 25 PK - 4 MR. St-I.ALLWOOD: Oh, yes, we are. HR. CROSBIE: In theory the Government are. MR, SMALLWOOD: In fact, MR. CROSBIE: ~-\;. Rut in fact the Govero.ment - MR. Sf-'ALLWOOD: Every time a vote is taken, we can be defeated, HR, CROSBIE: The Premier knows, HR. SMALLWOOD: If we are defeated, we. vill then resign. MR. CROSBIE: The Premier knows he can be defeated, if be loses a majori ty. MR. SMALLWOOD: ~ght. Anything wrong with a majority. l-1'ay be he \rould like to have a minority carried it.

MR.t CROSBIE: The Premier was out - MR, SMALLWOOD: Perhaps• he would like to have the minority carry it. MR. CROSBIE: The Pr emier was out to the seal hunt several weeks ago, be seems to have got t en a good gaft, he is keeping them all yapping in order over there . They are up and down today like trained seals. That was a good and important visit you made to the Ice Fields. The hon. the Premier knows that as long as there are certain emoluments around and certain other attractions, that the Government has nothing to f••r about, MR. SPEAKER: (NOEL): Order, please!

Wpuld you please carry on with the particular Resolution. MR. CROSBIE: Thank you, Mr, Speaker. Now to get back to the ~lnterim sup,ly, the point is, Mr. Speaker, that last year this $61 million. And the record of the previous years was almost 'ae diS111Al, except that it increases in arrogrance. as the years go by. 1969, $38 million . 1968, $49 million, 1966 and 1967, no Interi'!n Supply, 1965, $16 militon, 1964, $30 million, 1963, $26 million, 1960, $20 million. !>tie ,:ut of tenryears there was no interim supply , and in every other year there was. And last year, ~'r .

Speitker, it \l&S for $60 odd million, and this 1 na ~ {..-

March 25th. 1971 Tape 25 MR. CROSBIE: year we do not know, yet, how many million it is for. The point is, Mr. Speaker, that this Rouse is suppose to control the purse strin~s. It is suppose to agree to the items of expenditure. PK - 5 The Government are suppose to spend the money in accordance with the estimates voted last year. We have no way of knowing whether they did that.

How can members on the other side know whether or not to vote for Interim Supply when they do not know yet, the members who are not hon . members, or not in the Cabinet, do not know yet whether the Government spend the money in accordance with the estimates passed l ast year or not,. Do they know or care? The hon . minister says, he will find out shortly. Why has not the hon . minister presen t ed his Lieutenant Governor's warrants, table them in the House so that 1o1e can have them for this debate. AN HON. MEMBER: They will be tabled. MR. CROSBIE: Yes, they will be tabled, when this debate is long since over.

The hon . minis t er is going to be tabled, before this year is over. Not the Lieutenant Governor's warrants. Now, Mr. Speak.er, in this debate we do not want to waste anytime, because the hon. the Premier has threatened us. He has threatened us that we are going to meet morning ., afternoon and night .

So the only point that I want to speak about on this, whether we should go into committee, is on the point that we should not go into committee at all, and should not vote Interim Supply, because the Government have not carried out its parli2I11entary responsibili t y, it has not brought this House together in sufficient time to see details of the expenditure for next year. It has not presented us with the 1o1arrants, the Lieu t enant Governo r 's warrants for this year. It has not presented us with the Auditor General's Report. It has not ~iven us the Public Accounts.

It offers us nothing, and asks us to vote Interim ~upply when we could have met two months aflo, and should have met two months a~o, and should now have the estimates. ~e could have had passed all the estimates for next year, if ~•e had to meet two months airo. If the CoVf~rnment 1~9

MARCH 25th, 1971 PK - 6 MR. CROSBIE: wants us to ap.ree to Interim Supply, let us have an explanation of why the House has not been called together until 'iarch 22nd. Why not January? Februay? Why was it left so late? 1~0

MaTch 25, 1971, Tape 26, Pagel - apb MR. CROSBIE: 1 myself Mr. Speaker, do not intend to vote one cent for Interim. Supply. I will vote against this resolution that we go into committee. I will vote against every cent of expenditure unless the Government will now present to us the estimates for next year. Give us a chance to look at them - The Lieutenant •,Governor's "7&rrants, the AuditoT General's report, and the Public , Accotmts. That is the least we can expect from the Government. MR. CALLAHAN: Mr.

Speaker, I do not want to take very much time, but there are some things I would like to cOllllllent upon about what the hon. gentleman baa said in his proforma speech. I think this 1s the fifteenth time in this House that Interim Supply has been sought, and I think that this is the fifteenth time that the speech the Howie bas just heard bas been made to on.e degree or another. Let me say Mr. Speaker , that a year ago, or a little more than a year ago, in the debate previous to the introduction of the Interim Supply Bill, the complaint of the hon. the member for St.

John's West and other hon. members on the other side, the complaint was that the Government was seeking Interim Supply too long before the end of the financial year. Why ask for Interim Supply twnety - one days before the year is up. This year Mr. Speaker , the coraplaint is, the Government are asking for Interim Supply too close to the end of the year. Why wait until it is later towards the end of the year to a.sk for Interim Supply? So tbe complaint of last year has now been completely Teversed. Last year there was too much time, this year there is too little time, and Mr.

Speaker, I would suggest they cannot have it both ways, Incidentally, the big fear last year Mr. Speaker, and we heard it I tbink from every hon. member opposite, the big fear was that the House would not reconvene after the Interim Supply debate. ~on. ~e~tlemen opposite wett girding their loins and getting read y to go to tbe hustings , because,they were quite convinced that once Interim Supply was granted, we would not be back here again . Not, at least, .in the same session. MR. SMALLWOOD (J.R.): Not until after the election . MR. CALLAHAN: Not until after the election. Well Mr.

Speaker, that possibility exiat-s again this year, and far be it fro111 me to prevent the titillation that 131

March 25, 1971, Tape 26, Page 2 - apb the hon. gentlemen opposite lllight feel, the little bit of excitement they mi~ht feel about the prospect of getting out of t .his session perhaps a bit earlier to get to the hust i ngs. I really do not feel they are looking forward to it, but there is a degree of excitement, and perhaps we will hear the same argument again this year that we beard last year, that perhaps once we get Interim Supply through the Bouse, the House will not be back. Mr.

Speaker, we are really debating whether the House should go into Co111111ittee of Supply , I think it is not appropriate at this time to r efer in any detail to what the Bill that has not yet been presented v.111 contain. Let me say this Mr. Speaker, I do not know where t he hon. gentlemen opposite got his - the hon . gentleman who just sat do'Wtl got his information.

Nobody on this aide has said that no details will be presented, or, to put it into his words,"not even one word." Details will in fact be presented so far as they reasonably can be, and ~e do not I lllAY say intend to duplicate the estitnates for the entire year. that are in the course of preparation, and that are nearing now the end of their preparation. We have not aaid we will not give details. We will in fact give details. The hon. gentleman said Mr. Speaker~ that the House does not know what the eX'penditure was this year, and I think that perhaps that is a valid point. The year is not yet up.

The House will 'know what the expenditure will have been when this year is over, but surely, that is not ground Mr. Speaker, for with­ holding supply, for withholding the monies necessary for the operation of the ~ublic service after next Wednesday. The Governor's Warrants, Mr. Speaker, we have been told that the Gowrrnment has not carried out its parliamentary responsibility. Mr. Speaker, the Government's responsibility is to table the warrants within a prescribed time, and that will be done.

Because some hon. gentleman may-feel that it should have been done today, or on opening day, that does not mean that the Government have not and do not intend to carry out their responsibility. The hon. gentleman said that we could have passed all the estimates for next year two 1110ntha ago. Mr. Speaker, that was guite impossible for the simple reason that the estimates were not ready two months ago. They are not ready yet, and if I can refer to negotiations which are going on in the public service for

March 25, 1971, Tape 26, Page 3 -- apb example, there is one reason why the estimates aTe not ready, and that is only one. There are a good nlltllber of reasons why the estimates are not ready yet. They will Mr. Speaker, be ready in just a very few weeks, and all the items that will be in the Interim Supply Bill, will be covered in those estimates . In addition to that, the amounts that now will be sought for Interim Supply, will be as I said, explained in as much detail as possible, short perhap s of going to a c0111J)lete set of estimates ~or just that short period . Mr.

Speaker, today is the twenty-fifth of March, and that means that there are three r itting days not including next Wednesday which is private members day. Ther r are three sitting days before the present financial year ends.

Therefore, I unless the Government are in fact, (the hon. gentleman may think it is worth poking a little fun, to talk about civil servants salaries, or operations of the public service) but 1n fact, unless the Government are to be left, in fact, unable to pay salaries and meet other f~nancial committments after next Wednesday, then monies must be proyided pending the bringing down of the full estim.ates for the new financial year.

It is not in order now to refer directly to the Supply Bill that will be brought, that will be introduced, and we hope it wi.11 be passed expeditiously without the kind of wrangling that we had for two or three days last year. We are anxious Mr. Speaker. to cooperate with the House, we are at the disposal of the House, and I tell the House now that it is our intention to provide all the information that is possi~le to be provided as I said, and I repeat it again short of going to detailed estiinates duplicating the estimates tfiat will be brought here within two or three weeks. Mr.

Speaker, one other thing I would say, because, I am sure the point will arise. I think it is just as well now· to anticipate. It has been the practice, certainly last year and the year before, and the session before that, to refer to the InteriM Supply requirements as being for two months or three months or one month or whatever. I would like to say at this point Mr. Speaker, that this is nob the way in which we view the matter.

We view the requirement as being a reasonable sU111,of money being required to carry on the operation of the public service for a period of time, taking into account the fact that many 133

March 25, 1971, Tape 26, Page 4 -- apb activities of the Government start up at this time of ye~r. It is not accurate perhaps in many respects to refer to the requirement being for two months, or three 1110ntha or for a quarter or a half or for any designation like that. What the House will be asked to do Mr. Speaker, is to vote Interim Supply, upon the basis of the reasonable requirements for the next several weeks for the ca-rrying on of the public service .

I would not like that to be construed as indicating any sort of fixed fractional amount that can be projected into what the total of the estimates mig~t be. Mr. Speaker, having said that, I hope the Rouse will accept the assurance t hat information will be provided.

Last year we went for two days wr.i.ngling about about whether information should be provided, and once we got into the detailed amount s in the Interim Supply Bill, the information was provided starting at about eleven o'clock at night and after wasting two day we got it done in! think four hours , by about three in the morning . l do not think that kind of thing is necessary, and I do not think it helps the image of this House. Mr. Speaker, I think we must proceed into the - we must proceed Mr. Speaker, and l would hope that we can do so with haste.

I think that we can otherwise have a quite terrible, useless waste ·of time. 134 '

Karch 25th., 1971 Tape no 27 Page 1 Mil. EARLE: The hon. minister who is Acting Chairman of the Treasury Board 1 l understand his explanation for the reasons for Interim Supply at this parti cular time, I cannot but feel that it is an absolute expression and indication of complete arrogance and disregard for this Bouse to ask for it u this time . My basis is this: Simply that Supplelllelltary Supply or what the Government pent for last year has not yet been revealed. Last year the argument wa.s used that on the 10th.

Harch, when Interim Supply was asked for, it was too early then to predict accurately what the Government were going to spend in the then cunent fiscal year. We were so far away fro111 the 31st. March. Thia year that a rgument does not apply. We are very close to the 31st. } March and surq, the Government must know, within a very, very small margin indeed~ what .it spent in this current fiscal year . Now all of the indications are - at its best, we are not in possession of the facts so it must only be guess work.

But every indication poi.nts to the fact that there will be a tremendous Supplementary Supply Bill required thia year, because .,programs were carried out by this Government in the current year that were by no means provided for in the budge t. Just a case in point on capital expenditure alone; if you read last year's budget. you will see that the Government stated it would need to go to the markets for $29.S million. All of the recent prospectus for bond issues indicate that tb.e borrowings of the Government for the past year will be to the extent of possibly $138.5 lldllion.

Now we raised a question at this stage of the discussion that we will not sign a blank cheque . This is what asking for Interim Supply at this point is. We will not sign a blank cheque for the Govemment or agree to sign a blank cheque, not knowing what went on last year. When every indication is that the expenditures which were predicted for last year have been vastly, have been tremendously over spent . Thia, in my opinion, Mr. Speaker 1s why the 135

March 25th., 1971 Tape no. 27 Page 2 Hr. Earle. House is taking or the Government is asking the House to take this back-foremost course . The minister said that last year Supplementary Supply could not be provided because things had not been conc1uded . Then he vent on to say a very significant thing . Be says that the Govemment do not yet know what its estimates will be for the coming year. Here we are quick1~ approaching the 31st. March, and the Acting Chair'Dlan of the I Treasury Boar~ has not yet concluded his estimates .

Now if t ~e minister wants to know why be has not concluded his esti mates, I can tell you from experie .nce why he has not concluded his estimates . The fact is that ib trying to provide the finances foT the programs which have I been promised 1 for the. coming year, the Government have to squeeze and make unreali s tic reductions in votes which do not exist. The same story will be told again this time next year that Supplementary Supply will be asked for to cover amounts which this Bouse dare not ask for 1lOW knowing full well that it will have to spend them. This is what we object to .

Now we are asked on top of that, with~ut knowing what this bas been even for the past year or the year- that we are now in. We are asked to accept and give the Govemment a blank cheque to start up this sort of indiscri.minat ~ spending before we even have bad a chance to look at 1t. What is the purpose behind it? Is this just pure and simply political or what is it:? I have a strong suspicion that it is. because many pro grams were started at that: great Development Conference. Many programs were pr0111ised. The Government: must get off the ground. We are getting close to an election .

The Government must start to spend it. The Government must have money to spend. I have no idea what the minister is going to ask for by way of Inte rim Supply . I am willing to bet that he will ask for a substan Lial amount so that, at least, a token start can be made on some of these pro j ects . Time is running out for this Government. It 19 running out very fast indeed . The Government must show the public a good face, It must t:ry to establish its integrit y. Too many times in the past have thi s Government promised things and then not being able to carey them out . 136

March 25th.• 1971 Tape no . 27 Page J Mr, Earle . Nov what they want to do, they are looking over tleir election propaganda for 196! and 1966. I was looking over them the other day. It 1• •• clear as the nose on your face that what this Government are now doing is taking the aixty-two promises and the sixty-six promises and making one very quick, final effort through this great conference to start up these projects. which they could not start and which they had promised the people. Now is that what we are being asked in Interim Supply?

So that the Government can indicate to the people that it means business by getting monty from this House which the Bouse itself does not, at this stage, I know what it is going to be spent for. This, Mr. Speaker , to me is complete foola:y of the people.

Now the minister. unfortunately, he is gone, but he said that perhaps the fear might be expressed this year the same as it was expressed last year that we may be rushing into an election and that the Rouse will not recon vene in time to bring down Supplementary Supply, After all some of the ministers were told, the Premier and others are going off <!own to New Orleans or somewhere or other to inspect oil rigs. It 1s a nice, little trip coming up for some fellows . • They "41 get a bit of sunburn and so on. Kr.

Spealr.eY, in ury opinion, the business of this Rouse takes precedence over anything else that the Government may do at this particular stage , Why cannot the Government st ay home and mind shop . They will go down there, and you will see pictures of the Premier coming off an oil rig with a hat on and a driller ' s rig and all this, perhaps a union badge or something like he did out to the seal fishery.

Believe me, I shutter ed, when I heard the way this was approached 'the other day because the indication was tha t the Prince of Philistine or somebody had asked him to go down or the president of this or the president of that. They were going to g, on helicopters and planes and all this kind of stuff. They were going to do it in this. I bet you any amount of 1DOney, Hr. Speaker, that when that delegation goes down there , they will be so wined and dined that they 137

March 25th •• 1971 Tape no. 27 Page 4 Mr. Earle. will not Jeno~ an oil rig from a poat hole digger. This is the wrong way to go about it. The fact that all of this sort of thing is wasting the time of the House. My suggestion to the Government,(! know they will not take it. They never take a sensible suggestion) is that we have highly qualified people in the field of pollution . Pollution is a great word today. It is a magic catch-all . MR. SPEAKER (MR. NOEL) Order please.

It is a little bit far from the Interim Supply that we are debating now to be talkin g about the way Government should approach the problem of economic development. MR. EARLE: I am trying to make the point that the time of the House is being wasted . The time of the House is definitely being wasted when people are absent for no good reason . We should proceed in the normal way wich we are not being ·pemitted to do, because all of this is being rushed in at the last moment. The House will be closed for Easter . It is a jolly good excuse. It will delay bringing up other things which need to be attended to.

There is no reason . We are quite prepared on this side of the House in this particular debate because it is of such importance to the people to know how their money is being spent . We do not mind going on morning, afternoon and night an, all night, if necessary • We proved that last year . We wish to find out what the Government are committing the people of this Pronnce to, Last year, on this point of hustling the thing along, it was asserterl by the 'lllinister. He was permitted to say it so I preatllllle 1 am ,that this was being"'hustled along last year• because we feared that th•ere lllight be an election .

May I quote from my own remarks this time last ye ar and they are emphasized this year, because the day is later: "I do not care, when there is an election. (This is right from Hansard). I will be in Forttme Bay, when an election comes . " It is exactly the same this year. I have no worry whatsoever about an 138

March 25th., 1971 tape no -27 Page S Mr. Emle. eleetion. What I vant to do or what the members on this side of tb.e House vish to do is to get on with the House's business and find out for the people in this Province what the Govem111111nt is trying to use this haste to cover up. Mr. Speaker, to get back to the 1l&in point.

The only real point in '1111 argument on this;that i t is complete, absolute, unforgivable , audacity that at this late day in the year, close to the end of March, for any Govenmtent to have the arrogance to ask for Interim Supply, whic:h will be, I predict, in a large sum, when it is now in the position to tell the people of this Province what it has spent last year. ., .... .'l - t:, .,

March 25th, 1971 Tape 28 JM - l MR. EARLE: In other words to repeat, it is asking us to give a blank cheque to permit them to spend now without the faintest idea of what t~ey spent in supplementary supply, what Government warrants they ask for last yea,r a1,d as my hon. friend, the member for St. John's West, without any look at the Auditor General's report or any sight of anything of that nature which might help us to know just what we are voting money for the in the future.

It is so blatantly obvious, it is so terribly obvious that this country, this Province this year for the purposes of an election is going to be ask to spend money far beyond 1its ability to ever repay and this is the sort of thing we will I condone if jWe vote interim supply at this so that they can get it off the ground wit~out delay. I MR. HICKMAN: Mr, Speaker, just a couple of co!IIDlents on the remarks made by the hon. the acting Minister of Finance .

I believe in his closing remarks he indicated very clearly and very definitely the Government's attitude toward this House when it comes to dealing with matters financially. The hon. Minister said that for two days, we wasted two days in this House last year debating the Interim Supply Bill. Mr. Speaker, may I remind you, Sir, of an address you made to this hon.

House and your remarks last year on a private member's motion to select a standing co1D111itte~ I am sure Your Honour will recall how you were rather cleverly manoeuvred away from your point at the time by an indication that a notice of a Select Co1D111ittee was to be given inst