VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 P.M. - 6:00 P.M. TUESDAY, ~RCH 29, 1983 NO. 16

March 29, 1983 The House met at 3:00 P.M. ~tr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : . Tape 750 Order, please! MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS JV - 1 MR. SPEAKER: MR. WINDSOR: The bon. Minister of Development. Mr. Speaker, in the past, the execution and implementation of joint Federal/Provincial cost shared agr~ements represented commitments by both governments to social and economic development projects in this Province. These co-operative arrangements have created jobs and employment, provided much needed infrastructure, built tangible public assets and assisted in stimulating development investment.

Over the past couple of years, however, this commitment by the Government of Canada to provide development assistance in the form of dollars to the Newfoundland government has been seriously lacking. Mr. Speaker, the purpose of my statement today is to outline the frustrations we have faced in seeking from the Government of Canada a renewed Federal/Provincial operational agreement for the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation and, as well, a subsidiary agreement which would provide funding for industrial parks in certain areas of our Province.

To start with, let me first discuss the Development Corporation. It was a year ago March 1st, that initiai contact was made seeking a joint approach to continue the Corporation's activities and programs in a renewed agreement. Previously, there have been two successive five year operational agreements - the Newfoundland government wishes to continue with similar arrangements. This Corporation has proven to be a very successful and valuable agency in our overall business development strategy during its ten years of operation. 1672

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 750 JV -2 MR. WINDSOR: From March 1 until July 17, 1982, the expiry date of the five year agreement, a number o£ letters and telexes were sent requesting 1fOtification of a continuing Federal participation i.n a renewed funding agreement. The agreement expired on June 17th without any Federal notification of intent. In mid-Sept·ember the Government of canada agreed to extend the agreement to December 31, 1982, to permit discussions to take place in the development of a ne~.,r funding arrangement. Mr. Speaker, on November 19th, 1982, in St. John's the bon. the Premier and I met with Mr.

Lumley and Mr. Rompkey, the Province's R~epresentative in the Federal Cabinet, to discuss a number of outstanding bilateral issues. At this meeting, we reiterated our proposal for a continuing Federal/Provincial financial participation in the Corporation. The Ministers expressed the Federal intention to extend the agreement to March 311 19·84, with an appropriate contribution to the Corporate Loan Fund. Since that meeting we have confirmed the Province's willingness to enter into such an extension. However, we are still awaiting a federal 1673

March 29,1983 Tape No. 751 ah-1 MR.WINDSOR: reply regarding a draft extension in order that it may be executed. The combined efforts of our successes in this corporation are quickly being destroyed by federal indecision and indifference. The Newfoundland Government seeks a renewed agreement with federal participation to meet the financing needs of the business community in our Province. Mr. Speaker, in 1980 the government submitted a proposal to the Government of Canada for a joint federal/provincial agreement on industrial and commercial development.

While a number of meetings at the officials level were held to discuss this initiative, no formal response has been received to the acceptability of the proposed program for cost s?aring. One major component of this development proposal was the identification of the need for serviced industrial land in the Province.

While we preferred to discuss the total industrial development initiative we agreed to proceed with the.federal government to negotiate a program to construct industrial parks only, and to defer detailed negotiation of the other componentsnf our comprehensive industrial development package to a later date. In July of 1982,the then Minister for Regional Economic Expansion unilaterally announced federal intentions to fund entirely development cost for certain industrial parks and incurnbator malls.

These projects were not the same projects put forward by the Province for our initial star~ on industrial land parks; provincial priorities had not been discussed nor was the Province consulted prior to the federal announcements. The announcement made no reference whatsoever about the whole question o~ administration and ownership of parks once completed. Such development initiatives, Mr. Speaker, require 1674

March 29,1983 Tape No. 751 ah-2 MR. WINDSOR: governments to act jointly and in a co-ordinated approach to ensure their success . In November, 1982, the Premier and I, at the meeting with the federal ministers in St. John's presented a compromise proposal for industrial park funding by the Government of Canada. The federal ministers agreed to review this proposal and to have a decision in the near future, but to date no formal responses or draft agreements have been received. In

summary, Mr .Speaker, the Newfoundland Government has been willing to negotiate in good faith \"lith the Government of Canada. We want a joint and co-operative approach to address the serious economic problems facing our Province today and 1675

March 29, 1983 Tape 752 EC - 1 MR. WINDSOR: we are ready to sign agree- ments that will assist in business and industrial development. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. CALLAN: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, first of all I agreewith the minister 1 that in the past - if I may quote the minister - in the past the execution and implementa­ tion of joint federal and provincial cost shared agreements represented commitments by both governments ·to social and economic development projects in this Province.

And these ~~tive arrangements created ~obs and employment in the past. They provided much needed infrastructure, they built tangible public assets and they assisted in stimulating development investment. We agree on that. But the reasons, Mr. Speaker, why we do not have the same sort of co-operation and the same sorts of agreements that produced these sorts of .results today, I do not believe is the fault of the minister, himself.

But it is obvious to anybody, Mr.· Speaker, inside or outside the Legislature, that - and the minister later on in his Ministerial Statement made mention of the fact that Ottawa announced some agreements without consulting the Province. Well, is there any wonder, Mr. Speaker? Is there any wonder? The last big announcement that was made, the last big signing that took place was supposed to have taken place down in the old Newfoundland Hotel. It would have marked, Mr. Speaker, an historic signing, one of the last in an historic building.

But no, the Premier ranted and raved and wanted the agreement signed where the seat of govern­ ment is located. These are the kinds of reasons, 1676

March 29, 1983 Tape 752 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, why there is a lack of co -operation from Ottawa . These are the sorts of reasons; the petty nonsense of the Premier and hi s right-hand minister, the minister responsible for the Petroleum Directorate (Mr . Marshall). It is the actions of these two gentlemen in particular, Mr. Speaker, which have made the negotiating process with Ottawa almost impossible . 16 77

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 753 MJ - 1 MR. W. CALLAN : Mr. Speaker, I am sure that if the lUnister of Development (I1r. Windsor) had his own way 1 if he WE;!re acting alone that things in th ·e developing aspect in this Province would be on a much higher plane than they are. I remember, Mr. Speaker, about a year ago attending a meeting in Bay Roberts with that sal'1.e '"1inister where discussions were being held · to talk about the prospects for offshore oil and the developement that would be taking place in Harbour Grace. Mr.

Speaker, I believe that if the people in this Provine~ only realized how great . the prospects for jobs and employment opportunities would be if an ~_offshore agreement were signed _-which is another ·ane of those federal/provincial agreements that is stalled- then, Mr. Speaker, I think if the people knew,they would be marching in the streets. Andthe only thing I have to say, Mr.

Speaker, is that I- am disappointed in the minister for only one reason, that I am surprised at the minister, who knows of the things that are being lost by this Province and by this administration the thing that surprises me and disappoints me is that the minister still sits where he sits. I am surprised th~t he has not gone in cahoots with the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) and several others to form a new party or something and l~ave those gentlemen. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : response has expired. MR. S • NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The time for the han. member's ORAL QUESTIONS Mr.

Speaker. The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, now that the administration have sifted through the ideas of all the other princir>ala 1678

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 753 MJ - 2 MR . S. NEARY: involved in making policy on the fishery - the Liberal Party of Canada, Mr. Kirby, the unions and the provincial Liberal Party - now that they have sifted through all these ideas and picked out the best ideas and put their own label on them, I wonder if the Premier could answer a couple of questions, Mr. Speaker, in connection with his newsconference. Just to show the contempt that the Premier has for this House - SOME BON. MEMBERS : ~ffi. SPEAKER(Russell): MR . NEARY : Oh, oh!

Order, please! - he held a press conference this morning rather than come in this House and announce his policy, Mr . Speaker. Yesterday the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), the member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir (Mr . Andrews), the member for St . Mary's-The Capes tMr. Hearn), the member for Burin ~ Placentia West (Mr . Tobin) and the member for Grand Bank (Mr . Matthews), attended the People's Conference and vo te d in favour of a resolution 1679

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 754 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: that would send a united message to Ottawa, Mr. Speaker, in connection with the fishery. Now after hearing what the hen. gentleman had 'to say, and reading the .proposal put forward by the Premier, we are not sure if the administration supports the resolution or no .t. So I am going to ask the Premier a very simple question and he can answer it yes or no: Does he support without reservation the resolution that was passed yesterday at the People's Conference at the Holiday Inn? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hen. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, first of all, I do not know if the hon. Leader of the Opposition (M~. Neary} really knows the rules of the House or not, but under Presenting Reports, after Oral Questions, I have a copy of the proposal here to table for all hen. members in the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ PREMIER PECKFORD : And I am going to table it under that provision which is there for us to table such things under. So I was going to table it here in the House today, Mr. Speaker. I-~ish the hen. Leader of the Opposition would learn the rules, because he speaks before he thinks.

He should know what the rules of the House are. After Question Period I was about to table the whole thing, and he could have asked me, if he wanted to, whether I intended to table it. That would have been the way to go about it rather than to get up and rant and rave as if I was trying to ignore the Legislature. That is the first thing, Mr. Speaker. Secondly, I do not know where the Leader of the Opposition spends.his time, whether he is half asleep or totally asleep or whatever. I mean, yesterday there was a conference here in St.

John's attended by the union - I think it was organized by the union - and the Joint Councils 1680

March 29 , 1983 'I'ape 754 PK - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD : from the Burin Peninsula were here, the Action Committees _~~d - representatives of ~an x , many of the commun ities , and a resolution was prepared which follo we d very closely the positi on that the Newfoundla nd Government takes . Of course , one reason for that was we had con sulted with the union before we had gone to Ottawa , I consulted with them again yesterday morning, The Minister of Fisherie s (Mr. Morgan) had detailed meetings with the unio n yesterday morning before , during , a nd after breakfast, early yesterday morning.

The Minister of Fisheries was on target . The Mini ster of Fisheries was , over the weekend ,down th ro ughout all of the Burin Peninsula, got a fantastic reception down there, he was almost treated like a king . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. PECKFORD : He got a standing ovation at the 1681

March 30, 1983 Tape No. 755 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: conference. I do not think the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) got a standing ovation, did he? The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is one of ,the most popular people in Newfoundland and Labrador today, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: A tireless worker, a man who spends all of his time going around the Province,and wherever he has to go to pursue and promote the fishery of Newfoundland, that is where he goes 1 that Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: And, Mr.

Speaker, we are very, very proud that the union 1plus all the groups representing the communities down the Burin Peninsula and elsewhere in the Province 1 supported our position by passing that resolution. So 1 obviously, we fully support the resolution,because what the resolution does is support the proposal that we presented la.st week.· SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell}: Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. Mr.

Speaker, I think th .a t is a deliberate attempt on the part of the hon. gentleman to belittle the resolution and to belittle the conference that took place yesterday. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Because, Mr. Speaker, after reading the hon. gentleman's so-called policy that he robbed from all the other principals involved, there are some very fundamental differences between - MR. :- TOBIN: Is it a good policy? 1682

March 30, 1983 Tape No. 755 so - 2 MR. NEARY: - the resolution and between the policy outlined this morning at the press conference. N0\'1, Mr. Speaker, there is one vast difference between item one in the letter that ' . was written to Mr. Johnston by the Premier and the resolution . . itself. Item one in the Premier's letter says that there should be a single trawler company created to operate Newfoundland based trawlers . In the resolution it says that consider atio n should be given to this matter somewhere down the road, that it be considered. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. TOBIN: Sit do\-m!

Sit down~ You are ·making a fool of yourself . MR . NEARY : Let me read the resolution, Mr . Speaker . '' BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED - 1683

'"' March 29, 1983 Tape No. 756 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell} : Order, please: Order, please: The hon. President of the Council on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL: The hon. gentleman is asking a suppl~mentary question. He has been into a very long oreamble. He is now reading resolutions, he is reading ·excerpts from papers, etc., Mr. Speaker, and I think that he should be asked to get on to the subst i nce of his question, if in fact it has any substance. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: The Chair has been more than lenient with members on both sides in asking and answering questi.ons.

The hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) did rise on a supplementary question and I am sure that Beauchesne says that a supplementary question should not need any

preamble. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear: MR. NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, let me ask - MR. HODDER: That is the first time that has been brought in· now, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: let me ask the hon. gentleman - MR. HODDER: I do not care if it is i; Beauchesne. In the traditions of this House we have always been allowed it. PREMIER PECKFORD: On a supplementc-.ry? MR. HODDER: It is, the long arm of the government. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, let me ask the hon. gentleman a supplementary by asking him - MR. HODDER: ,- Nr .• Sp~-aker Simms have always allowed it. 1684

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 756 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: - if his proposal in item one in his letter, if his proposal coincides with the last

BE IT RESOLVED in the resolution, and does he not think that his proposal as outlined in his letter to Mr. Donald Johnston, M~nister of State, does he not think that if this proposal has to be seriously con­ sidered and is laid on the table in Ottawa that it will only delay the restructuring of the fish plants that are involved in the deep-sea fishery? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han . the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: No~r we see the real Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary)and the Liberal Party, who is more interested in having some of the plants open and some of the plants closed so we can get on - ~at the Leader of the Opposition just said- he just showed his hand, Mr. Speaker .- he just made a fundamental error in the Liberal Party's approach. What the Leader of the Opposition is saying he prefers to have five plants closed and the rest open, because what we are saying is going to have all of them · (ill3en, ·but it might take a little bit moJ:e time, Mr. Speaker. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear , hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Now let us call a spade a spade.

The Leader of the Opposition has just said he prefers to see Gaultois closed, he prefers to see Grand Bank closed, St. Lawrence closed, Burin closed and Fermeuse closed so we can get on with the restructuring that the Price Waterhouse people and the companies and the banks want. That is what the 1685

March 29, 1983 Tape 757 EC - l PREMIER PECKFORD: Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) just said in his question. So he is opposed to having the other five plants reopened in this Province, Mr. Speaker. Now . let it go on record. Here we are today talking about a fundamental .new approach to the reorgani­ zation of the fishery in Newfoundland which the Government of Newfoundland just put on the table. It is going to determine whether Newfoundland communities over the long-term on the South coast and throughout even the East and Northeast coast are going to survive or whether they are going to die. MR.

NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: That is what we are talking about. Brief answers, Mr. Speaker.

And the Leader of the Opposition can stand up after seeing a copy of that proposal - and I will table the copy and we will brief him on it if he wants to be briefed - and takes the position, after all the agony and pain that have gone on in this Province in the last three or four months over the close down of some of those plants, takes the cheap, simplistic position that somehow the Government of Newfoundland is going to retard the restructuring process because we are looking at some­ thing that is · long-term, something that will see all the plants open in this Province, Mr. Speaker.

I condemn publicly now the Leader of the Opposition for taking such a small approach to this problem. SOME HON. .MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR, NEARY: Brief answers, Mr. Speaker. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, before this day is out, let the member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock}, let the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) in the speech on Interim Supply, let the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk), 1686

March 29 , 1983 Tape 757 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: let the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. Roberts), let the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) change his position, let the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) and the other two members who are now absent stand in their places and get together with the union, with the people of the South coast - MR. MORGAN: And support us. PREMIER PECKFORD: - and with the Government of Newfoundland 1 too, and support this position so that we can get some sanity back into the long-term future of the fishery of this Province. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. Order, please! Order, please! The hon . the Leader of the Mr . Speaker, I have heard some silly, off-the-rocker statements from the hon. gentleman who just took his seat, but that has to be about the lowest and the worst I think we have ever heard. Let me go back to the question, Mr. Speaker . I was comparing the - PREMIER PECKFORD: You were .asking whether we were going to delay the restructuring process. MR . NEARY : Mr. Speaker, I did not interrupt the han. gentleman.

If the hon. gentleman has not had his pill for today, I would suggest he go outside and take it, because we do not want to upset him. I am sorry if I upset the hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, but this is a very serious matter. There are vast differences between the resolution and the letter that was written to Mr.Johnston by the Premier. And I 1687

..!: March 29,1983 Tape No. 758 ah-1 MR. NEARY: pointed out one of those differences. The Premier is making a definite statement about a single trawler company, the resolution says the option of the separation of the.fleet and community ownership of processing plants be examined as potential objectives. That is why I asked the hon. gentleman if he was supporting the resolution or just merely attempting to muddy up the water. One -upmanship again, playing cheap political games with the lives of people in these communities where restructuring has to take place. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Question! Question! MR.

NEARY: The hon. gentleman made a little speech and now he is objecting to my making one. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want the hon. gentleman to explain this difference in his policy and the resolution that was passed yesterday. In the hon. gentleman's poli~y he says, 'within the processing sector,the existing corporate structure would be maintained with the prospect that these companies. \may have to be broken down in smaller multi-plant units.' That is not what the resolution says, Mr. Speaker.

The resolution says, "Be it further resolved that rather than a simple bail-out of the corporate interests ,·both governments commit themselves jointly or separately to the public ownership of those deep-sea companies, Fishery Products - MR. YOUNG: A point of order. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. minister on a point of order. MR.YOUNG: I want to just indicate to t~e hon. member for LaPoile (Mr.Neary) ,Mr. Speaker MR.NEARY: Oh 1 here is the expert now! Corning to his rescue now , are you? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 1688

March 29,1983 Tape No. 758 ah -2 MR. YOUNG: I may not be an expert , Mr. Speaker, but I have common sense,something that the hon . meffiPer has not got . MR.NEARY: Sit down, boy! MR.YOUNG: But I think, Sir, that you just ruled that the hon. member should not be reading resolutions and so forth and .that is what he is doing in asking the question. I think it is plain ridiculous his ignoring the Chair. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Sometimes it might be in order to permit some

preamble. The Chair was listening to see what the question was that the han. Leader of the Opposition was going to ask . The time for the Question Period is dragging on and the topic is certainly serious,so maybe the questions and answers could be each a little briefer than they have been • . MR .NEARY: Well .1 what I am asking the hon . gentleman , Hr. Speaker, is if Item No. 2 in his letter to Mr.

Johnston meets the provision of the reso .lution, ':ee it further resolved that rather than a simple bail-out of the corporate interests both governments commit themselves jointly or separtely to the public ownership of those deep­ sea companies, Fishery Products, the Lake Group, John Penny and Sons and H.B. Nickersons unable to operate without public assistance.' 1689

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 759 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: The Premier's statement is not compatible with the resolution. The Premier's statement, as a matter of fact, is the complete opposite of the resolution. So how can he say that he suppo~ts the resolution with that kind of policy? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, in answer to that, what we are talking about over time,after the two governments get involved- if the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) wants an answer directly to that question, I have to, however, go back to explain to the Leader of the Opposition that the resolution that was passed yesterday · is not as all-encompassing and as comprehensive as our proposal is. MR. NEARY: Oh., I see. PREMIER PECKFORD: They only deal with pUblic ownership, we deal with. public ownershio and more. MR. NEARY: I see. It is only the people's resolution. PREMIER PECKFORD: Our proposal is far more comprehensive than that resolution was yesterday. In our proposal is contained the public ownership issue.

We have talked to the President of the Union about th~s and all the people who passed that resolution yesterday·, and here is what we are saying: Later on down the road, after public ownership, there migh.:t be a dif~erent kin .d of public ownership. The public ownersh.ip,like we . have on Fogo Island, the people of Grand aank with the union might want to own the fish plant in Grand Bank, like. the people out on Fogo Island did,or in Burin or in Ferrneuse or in Gaultois.

So we are leaving it open for that public ownership,which in the first instance will be company orientated for i:.t to be even better public ownership 1 people orientated down the road. 1690

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 759 SD - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: So our public ownership goes even further than the union's. It keeps the door open down the road for there to be even greater public ownership through shares sold to the individuals or the union in the given community where that fish plant is located. we think that is very sound. The union agrees. All the people on the Burin Peninsual agree that leaving that door open for later on down the road for some of these fish plants to be owned by the community 1 is a very wise and sane policy.

Whether it will or whether it will not will depend upon the evolution of the process after the government has been involved on the front end·. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear , hear. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, the hon. Mr. Speaker, is the hon. gentleman saying that the administration agree with option three as amended? Is that what the han. gentleman is saying in effect, because his policy statement this morning certainly does not indicate that? The resolution and the discussion yesterday at the P·eople's eonference - MR.

TOBIN: You would like to pick it apart. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am asking the hon. gentleman 1 not the ignoramous from Burin - Placentia West (.Mr. Tobin), the · lap dog. I am asking the hon. gentleman to tell this House and tell the people now in tQese communities if he agrees,as did the 1691

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 760 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: conference yesterday, with Option 3 if it is amended, and that is the merger of Nickersons, the Lake Group of Companies and Fishery Products and that all the plants be reopened? Does the han. gentleman approve of that option, Option 3 as amended? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr. Speaker, we are going to negotiate out an agreement with the federal government and others that will ensure that these principles are incorporated in that agreement.

Now, whether that comes out to be Option 3 or Option 3 amended or Option 2 amended or Option 5 or Option Z or·Mickey Mouse or whatever it is called it makes no difference to us. MR. J. HODDER: Needless to say you will keep on playing politics. You are playing politics. PREMIER PECKFORD: We are not linked to any one option. What we want to see is a process that sees MR. HODDER: You could have had Option 3 as amended.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Right now Option3 amended by the federal government, or Price Waterhouse has no provision in there for all the plants being opened, it has no provision in there for a trawler company some time · down the road, it has no provision in there for co~unities to get involved if they want, it has no provision in there for the union to get . involved if they want to get · involved, it has no provision in there that factory trawlers w-ill never be used. And on top of all of that, you have the idea of what is go~ng to happen in the Labrador Coast, wh.at is go;i,ng to happen in St. Anthony.

So, it is a full, full pacKage. Option 3 alone, or Option 3 amended does not accommodate all these principles that we are now putting on the table, nor does it come to grips with how we are going to work out the St. Anthony/Labrador Coast situation, The Government 1692

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 760 MJ - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: of Newfoundland's point of view is we are not going to isolate one part of this Province against another. If we are going to have · a restructuring where there is going to be hundreds of millions of dollars put in, let us have a restructuring which is a fundamental change in policy. I am just as concerned about Nain as I am Burin, I am just as concerned about Makkovik as I am Gaultois, I am just as concerned about Port au Choix as I am St. Anthony, and I am looking at the whole Province, so it is no good for the Leader of the Opposition (Mr .

Neary) to try to blindfold everybody by bringing out this magic Option 3 amended, whatever that is supposed to mean . Where does St. Anthony come into that? ·where does Nain come into that? Where does the Saltfish Corporation come into all of that?

So we have tried to do is, first of all, lay down a whole bunch of fundamental framework in which a restructuring of the given plants now can take place, Now after the negotiations are over, if that comes out to be something closely resembling option this or option that, then sobeit, but it is too large a problem to start sticking labels onto it. .What we are talking about is a fundamental restructuring with all plants open. The other thing is, Mr. Speaker, which nobody seems to want to talk about and which I mentioned this morning - MR. HODDER: There was already an opt:i,on but he has to muddy up the water. 1693

March 29, 1983 Tape 761 PK - 1 MR. HODDER: PREMIER PECKFORD: We have to wait for another month. - we should not be focusing on restructuring the companies, we should be focusing on restructuring the industry. And when I talk about restructuring the industry, I want to go back to talking about what is the resource we have to deal with. I mean, this is the craziest process that you have ever heard of that we are involved in right now. We are talking about restructuring a bunch of companies, bailing them out based upon primarily a cod resource. Well, Mr _.

Speaker, how about the turbot resource, how about the offshore crab resource, how about the offshore squid resource? I understand that in the past year the Poles carne over there and took somewhere around 15,000 or 20,0~0 - MR. MORGAN: Nineteen thousand. PREMIER PECKFORD: of turbot. MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: Nineteen thousand metric tons Brief answers, Mr. Speaker. Well, that should be landed in Newfoundland to make those plants viable that are not viable. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: ffear, hear~ PREMIER PECKFORD: So give them their base of cod, give them their little bit of flounder and yellow tail and perch, and redfish if we can find the market, and build on that basic resource some of the other underutilized species that are there. Somebody has to go back and define what is the resource we are talking about and then bui.ld an economic strategy based on that resour .ce. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PREMIER PE:CKFORD: Do not start by taking- four steps and then start to look at it. Before you take step number one define what the resource is.

And we have never defined what our resource is. Plus how about the foreign allocation of 1694

March 29, 1983 Tape 761 PK - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: 20,000 metric tons of the Northern cod stock that is going to Europe that we get no benefit out of. How about the French Treaty that is going to come up in 1986 for another 18,000 metric tons; MR. NEARY: You are talking about ten years, maybe fifteen years or twenty years. PREMIER PECKFORD: What we are talking about is not Option A amended or Option 2.

Let us go back and talk about what resource that is closer to Newfoundland than anywhere else, and who can we use that resource to build an industrial and economic strategy which will give prosperity and jobs to the people of this Province? SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. Leader of -ehe Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. Let it be recorded, Mr. Speaker, that the han. gentleman would not commit the administration to supporting an option. The han. gentleman is talking about long-term ma'tters that will take anywhere from one year up; to one hundred years to resolve.

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: on a point of order. MR, MARSHALL: Order, please! The han. President of the Council The han. gentleman is making a speech, Mr. Speaker, and he is also commenting on the answer. There is a certain procedure that can be implemented by the han. gentlemen if 1le wishes to. They did not wish to do it last Thursday, but there is a procedure and he is commenting on the . answer and making a speech. SOME ' R:ON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 1695

March 29, 1983 Tape No . 7 6 2 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell} : Order, please~ Again I must remind hon •. members that there are only about six or seven minutes left in the Question Period and maybe the answers to questions should be brief. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, maybe I will wrap all my questions into one. The hon. gentleman mentioned "now 'starting negotiation". The han. gentleman is now going to start negotiations. Is the hon. gentleman aware that maybe on Thursday of this week 1 as was stated yesterday at the ~eople's Conference, a decision may be mad ~ by a cabinet committee in Ottawa on restructuring?

The People's Conference favoured Option 3 if it was amended, the hon. gentleman will not commit himself to that. He is now going to start negotiations. How long will these negotiations take? And would the hon. gentleman tell the House if he is aware that these matters are likely to be decided before Easter? And would the hon . gentleman tell the House and tell the people of this Province about funding for the plan he announced this morning? How will it be funded? Will it be funded jointly? Will it be cost-shared with the Government of Canada? What proportion will the Province put in?

What is the estimate of the programme announced by the hon. gentleman this morning as far as upgrading the plants, telling us when the plants - MR. MORGAN: There he . goes now. MR. NEARY: No, hold on now. - telling us when the plants will •-7''--- ~ open, l,upgrading the plants? How will it be shared with the Government of Canada? Will it be fifty/fifty, seventy-five/twenty-five, ninety/ten? How will it be cost shared? Could the hon. gentleman give us an inkling of these very important matters? 1696

March 29, 1983 Tape No, 762 NM - ·2 MR. SPEAKER (Russel 'l) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: The first very important matter is that seeing all the communities on the Burin Peninsula and elsewhere around the Province that are affected by this restructuring and the union are on side, we would like to have the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) his party on side, so that no decision is made on Thursday. SOME RON. MEMBERS: H.ear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Now that is number one because that is very critical. That is very critical. MR. NEARY: Option 3 as amended will keep the ·plants open.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Option 3 as amended is no good unless it has got all the rest in it. SOME H.ON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PFC~FORD: now is one.- SOME HON. MEMBERS : PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh, oh! Order, please! Order, please! The only option on the table Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, this is very important sv way I just have the floor? I mean,if I am asked a question le~ me answer it. over like that. It is too important to go skirmishing Let me just say to the 169"7

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 763 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) - you know, he can play all t.he games he likes - but I am telling the Leader of the Opposition I was in Ottawa last Thursday and was told by all the people there that every one of the options on the table had the five plants closing, and that is still the position in Ottawa. I am telling you that the factory trawlers are still in and there is no position there for the union.

There is no consideration of all these things, of the turbot, no consideration of offshore crab, no consideration of offshore squid - that can be traded away over time. All of these things are not there. So what you are talking about amending - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: - is amending the whole process that Price Waterhouse was involved in. In order to have any amendment, the amendment has to be an amendment to all the options. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, if you were to proceed along the lines that the Government of Newfoundland is talking about, we could have an agreement. The Leader of the Opposition says, 'How long will it take to do this'? Fifteen to thirty days. No problem. Easy. These things can be done in no time. Now the total amount of money that the Leader of the ~pposition talks about - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER PECKFORD: The Leader of the Opposition ' just accused me of interrupting him, and he, plus a number of his other members, just insistently interrupted me while I am trying to give an answer to three very important questions. 1698

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 763 PREMIER PECKFORD: See not only are they not interested in the fishery of Newfoundland, they are not interested in anything. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. SD -2 PREMIER PECKFORD: They are playing games, that is all they'are interested in. Mr. Speaker, the Price Waterhouse group and all the people in the federal Cabinet have already agreed - MR. CALLAN: I agree too. PREMIER PECKFORD: This is important, Mr. Speaker. I do not know if the member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) considers this to be important or not -$257 million. They have already agreed that at least $257 million is needed.

Now this is important for the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) to listen to. I want the Leader of the Opposition clear on this. They have already agreed that at least $257 million has to be put up to bail out the existing companies. Of that $257 million is under any of their options, all of which have five plants closing down -no talk of turbot offshore, no talk of squid, no talk of offshore crab, rio talk of participation by the union, no talk of a social compact with the union to make"the whole thing tick, none of that is in there. 1699

March 29, 1983 Tape 764 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: And under one of those options, the one that they prefer, they were going to give National Sea, the only viable company of the four or five involved in the restructuring, $70 million, not to eliminate their debts because they have none, they can take care of their·debts, but for capital improvements- MR. MORGAN: PREMIER PECKFORD: trawlers.

And to purchase freezer vessels. - and ,to purchase factory Now, if the federal government has $257 million available to put into the offshore fishery, let us break out how much of that $257 million was supposed to go for trawlers and put that amount of the $257 million into the trawler company, the harvesting company, however much that was. MR. NEARY: You are out of touch. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, let it be recorded that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is saying I am out of touch because I want to keep the fishery of thir; Province going and to keep communities viable around this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: Everyone agrees except them. PREMIER PECKFORD: The only ones out of step again is the Liberal Party of Newfoundland. PREMIER PECKFORD: By the way, Mr. Speaker, is this a dream, having a separate harvesting company? MR. NEARY: If we do not get Option 3 it will be your fault. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! ·order, please! All over the world, in the PREMIER PECKFORD: fishing nations of the world, the harvesting component is separated from the processing component. 1700

March 29, 1983 Tape 764 EC - 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: And this week over in British Columbia, one of the largest fishing interests over there is about to separate the harvesting fleet from the processing fleet. So it is not pie in the sky. Take the rest of the money and put it into capital upgrading of the existing plants and take away that $70 million that was going to go free 1 gratis, for nothing, to National Sea and put it where it really has to go, into upgrading the plants that need upgrading in this Province. Now, Mr.

Speaker, that can all work, it can work easily if there is a will to make it work. Everybody is on side, everybody in Newfoundland is on side. I do not know where the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is. MR. NEARY: You do not agree with restructuring. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, I agree with restructuring of the industry. MR. NEARY: But you are going to delay it. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Everybody is on side except the Leader of the Opposition and the Liberal Party and they are the ones who will stand accused again if this thing does not go through. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER PECKFORD: Because we are more concerned ·about the long-term than we are about short-term, which . ' the Liberal 'Party always have been interested in. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The time for Question Period has expired. 1701

March 29, 1983 Tape 764 EC - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Russell)·: I would like to welcome to the galleries today, a deleg~tion from the St. Barbe Development Association. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! .,. 1702

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 765 MJ - 1 PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING Al.JD SPECIAL COMMITTEES PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, as according to my promise earlier, I want to table copies of our proposal for the restructuring of the fisheries,and l also want to table at the same time a Telex that I have sent to Mr. Rompkey. "Last week I presented the Newfoundland Government's position on fisheries restructuring to th~ federal Cabinet Committee of which you are a member. Today I released this position to the public.

In view of how important this whole matter is to many Newfoundland Communities and to the future of our Provin~e,I am requesting your support as Newfoundland's representative in the federal Cabinet to this position and by copy of this telegram to the other members of Parliament from Newfoundland. important'' - MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEN<ER (Russell) : It is, of course, especially A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, on a point of order. MR.

NEARY: I believe that Your Honou~ is already aware .that these statements that are being laid on the table of the House are not in order •. They are not the kind of reports that ·are made when Your Honour asks for Reports from departments and ministers. The kind of reports th~t ~e are talking about are the ones that they have t0 br{ng in under statutes of this Provine~ And it is a cowardly way to do it, Mr. Speaker, because we cannot respond. The things that the hon, gentleman is tabling, Mr. speaker, are the subject of debate and we do 1703 '>

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 765 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: not have any opportunity to respond to these statements that are being made. I would submit that the whole thing is completely-out of order and if anybody should learn the rules of the House, it should be the han. gentleman who has managed in the last few years to bring this House down·to its lowest level since confederation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: PREMIER PECKFORD: Speaker. ··MR. SPEA.KER(Russell): point of order. PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh, oh! To that point of order, Mr.

The hon. the Prem~er, to that I happened to sit in the gallery here when the hon. member was a member of this House on this side,when there was another Premier over here,when there was no Question Period, when there was no Late Show,and here the han. the Leader of t.he Opposition (Mr. Neary) can sit over there on a point of order and talk about bringing this House back to les;s than what it was at the time of Confederation, ·when he was part of that government that did not even permit a Que;stion Period, Mr. Speaker. The n~rve of the man to get up now and try to - MR •. CALLAN: (Inaudible) .in Ottawa.

PREMIER: PECKFORD: Yes, change your spots all right, Mr. Speaker. To the point of order, all :r was trying to do was table the government's position on a very important m'atter, table the Telex to a federal Cabinet Committee. MR. NEAR.Y ': Iihy did you not bring it in in a Ministerial Statement? PREMIER PECKFORD: If they do not want the information then,that is fine with me. 1704

March 29,1983 Tape No. 766 ah-1 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): ·Order, please! I will have to rule ~ that it was not a valid point of order raised by the Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR.ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, thank you. PREMIER PECKFORD: I have not finished this yet. MR.ROBERTS: I thought the Premier had tabled the document. Or is he making a speech? What is he doing? PREMIER PECKFORD: No, I - . MR.ROBERTS: Well 1if he is tabling· it, he could have built a table in the ·time he has had. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

PECKFORD: Are you opposed? MR.ROBERTS: I have been recognized by the Chair. I am not opposed to anything, I am recognized by the Chair. MR.SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair made a ruling on the point of order .and,I may have been a little hasty, I assumed that the Premier had finished. PREMIER PECKFORD ': No. MR. SPEAKER: Okay. I will let the hon. Premier finish tabling hisdocuments. PREMIER PECKFORD : I never got an opportunity, Mr.

Speaker, to say I was tabling two things, I was tabling the document which was our proposal on restructuring ~nd I was tabling · a copy of a telegram that I sent to the federal representative from Newfoundland asking for his support of this proposal. I table, Mr.Speaker. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. 1705

March 29,1983 Tape No. 766 ah-2 MR. ROBERTS: .Mr. Speaker, if hon. gentlemen opposite would permit I would like to make a brief report in behalf· of a Standing Committee of the House of Assembly which,after all,is what this proportion of our orders is about. I would simply like to say, Mr. Speaker, in behalf of my colleagues on the Public Accounts Committee, the Vice-Chairman,the member for Humber West (Mr. Baird) and the five others who served with us,that we have completed all but the most minute details on our report for the year ending March 31,1981.

The report is either at the printers or wil.l be there within the next day or so,I understand, and we expect to be able to table - the report at this stage in the House,when ~t meets after the Easter recess or shortly thereafter. I did not mean to interrupt the Premier. I have no desire .to interrupt him when he is in full flight like that. But I understood he had finished and I thought I was recognized by the Chair which is why- . HR. NEARY: He was finished a long time ago . MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! MR.PECKFORD: I was interrupted by a point of order. MR.ROBERTS: I am sorry.

The Premier was saying something. PREMIER PECKFORD: · . I was interrupted by a point of order. MR. ROBERTS: Well,I understand he was interrupted. I had not been aware that he had not been finished or I would not have interrupted him. I think, Mr. Speaker, the Premier is a perfect example of giving a~ man enough rope and he .;will hang himself . -as long as he does not hang Newfoundland and Labrador with him. MR.SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I want to table the financial statements for the - SOME' HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 17 f"6

March 29,1983 Tape No. 766 MR.SPEAK:ER(Russell): Order, please! MR.GOUDIE: -Newfoundland Crop Insurance Agency for the year ending March 31,198l,and for the Livestock SOME HON.MEMBE(RS: Oh, oh! MR.SPEAKER: Order, please! ah-3 MR.GOUDIE;--Owners Compensation B0ard , the financial-statements for the year ending March 31,1981. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: 0 0 0 Mr. Speaker. Order, please! MR.NEARY: Now we ~ill find out who is interested in the fishery, Mr.

Speaker; I beg leave to move that leave be granted to move the adjournment 0f the regular order of business of ~~is House to debate a matter of urgent public importance, na.mely,the proposals to restructure the fishing industry of this Province. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. l1R. PBCr<FO'RD: our proposal And they do not even ag~ee with 1707

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 767 NM - 1 MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. President of the Council. MR. NEARY: sincere and genuin~. MR. SPEAKER: ~REMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER: MR. MARSHALL: We will soon find out now who is Order, please! Where is your proposal? Order, please~ Mr. Speaker, for a matter to warrant the adjournment of the House there has to be a matter - SOME HON. MEMBERS~ MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh~ Order, please! The hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) has made a particular motion and the Chair has recognized the hon. the President of the Council (Mr ;~ Marshall) speaking to that., . The Chair is having some difficulty in hearing the arguments of hoh. members so I would ask hon. members to my right and to my left Lf5 they would please let the hon. President be heard in silence. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, in order for a matter of this nature,for this proceeding to succeed,the matter has to be matter of urgency of debate. There is ample opportunity to debate that issue.

As a matter of fact 1we have seen in effect a debate that has gone on in the Question Period,that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) lost so abysmally a few moments ago. We also, Mr. Speaker, will be proceeding to the matter of Interim Supply • As the next order of business that will be called, in which the hon. geRtleman can express whatever views he wishes. So the matter is not a matter of urgency of debate, Mr. Speaker. 1708

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 767 NM- 2 MR. MARSHALL : It is an urgent matter and it is one that was dealt with so effectively by the Government of this Province within the past week and will be in the future. But it is not a matter of urgency of debate -that should cause the ordinary business of the House to be adjourned. MR. SPEAKER (Russell}: The hon. member for Port au Port to that point of order. MR. HODDER: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. There is certainly urgency of public debate. Not only that but the House Leader opposite (Mr. Marshall) talked about supply in Question Period.

Question Period is an inadequate place to debate such a motion and,as well, under the rules of the Committee of Supply members have ten minutes but generally we are limited to talking about the financial affairs of this Province. So, Mr. Speaker, I would submit that it would be in the best interest of this House and of the . people of Newfoundland if we were to debate this motion today. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, let us get this clear .As the President of the Council said to this point raised by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) 1 'first of all it must be an urgency of debate, not the point that the question is urgent. Secondly, if it is an urgency of debate the Opposition have ample opportunity this afternoon to debate the fisheries policy of this Province under the present orders that are going to be called in a few minutes, under Interim Supply, ample opportunity. We have had it on the Private Members Day. The Opposition did not even take 1709

March 29, 1983 Tap e No. 767 NM- 3 PREMIER PECK'FORD: tne opportunity to use their Late Show last Thu .rsday as a meth od of debating issues. They left it out. They did not e.ven debate it. MR. HOD'DER: I know you are not low. PREMIER PECKFORD~ · The Opposition has all afternoon to debate the government's position on fishery through Interim Supply 1 so let them not try to use some kind of ruse on this, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKE'R (Russe'l'l ') :· Order, please~ The Chair has heard sufficient argument on this matter . The matter is certainly an important matter but 1710

March 29, 1983 Tape 768 PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell} : I must agree there is ample opportunity on the Order Paper, the Address in Reply is still there, the Committee of Supply is still there. And as hon. members know the rule of relevancy is and has been most difficult to rule on in Interim Supply,' it is a very wide­ ranging debate. So the Chair has to rule that this motion is not acceptable, not in order at this t±me. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER: Order 2. On motion, that the House resolve itself into Committee of Supply, Mr. Speaker left the Chair. C'OMMITTEE OF SUPPLY MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward)_ : Order, please!

The han. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: If the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) would stay in his seat, not only in the Question Period can you ask questions SOME: H:ON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. HODDER: Mr. Chairman, that is the attitude -here is a minister whom I have been meeting with every day for the last - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR, CHAIRMAN: Order, please! MR. H:ODDER.: -two weeks and who is playing politics with the Piccadilly fish plant. Now, how do we expect, Mr. Chairman, to trust this government in restructuring or in anything else that they are doing? Now, I stood here in my place, Mr.

Chairman, to ask a few questions, since I missed the opportunity in Question Period, of the Minister of Fisheries. The Minister of Fisheries walked out of the House 1711

March 29, 1983 Tape 768 PK - 2 MR. HODDER: and said that as far as he was concerned he was finished with the Piccadilly fish plant. Now,if that is the attitude that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) has, then , Mr. Chairman, I feel that the people of this Province are - he should pe replaced, Mr. Chairman, and I fear for the people in the Province who are looking for some justice and fair play from this government. MR. STAGG: I I thought you were going to ask him a question? MR. HODDER: Mr. Chairman, it has been two weeks now that the people of the district of Port au Port and the people of Bay St.

George,for that matter, have been waiting for an answer. MR. MORGAN: in Question Period? MR. HODDER: Why did you not ask the question today . Mr. Chairman, whether the question is asked in debate, whether the question is asked in Committee, if the minister had kept his mouth shut long enough for me -- MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) in Committee. MR. HODDER: Well, Mr. Chairman, for two weeks now .we have been waiting for the minister, I have been phoning his officials, and I have been phoning the minister. MR. MORGAN: The member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) has all of the information. 1712

March 29, 1983 Tape No . 769 MJ - 1 MR. J. HODDER: Well,then, if the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) has all the information would he make it public? Because I happened to have been in the district this week and the fishermen are ready to fish. The minister owns the fish plant - MR. J. MORGAN: I am going this weekend,maybe, to meet will all the fishermen, but not with you though. I do not want you with me. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HODDER: MR. NEARY: MR. MORGAN: MR. B~ .. TULK: Oh, oh! Well, that might be to the minister's detr.irrent. Is he threatening you? Repeat what he said. I do not need you to go with me.

Repeat what he said, that he will not go with the member for the area. MR. HODDER: I heard what the minister said, that he will not go with the member for the area. MR. TULK: He wants to play politics with the member from Stephenville. MR. HODDER: Yes. Politics is more important to this government in every respect than anything else. MR. MORGAN: playing politics? MR. HODDER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MORGAN: like to play it? MR. HODDER: Did you say you were Yes, we are playing politics. Oh, oh! Can you play politics? Nould you Yes, I would like that. Now, another threat! Yes. Mr.

Chairman, the truth of the matter is that I stood here in my place today to ask a question of the minister as to what is happening. The minister had a meeting with the federal ~s and the federal members made public on the West Coast that there are 1713

·March 29, 1983 Tape 'No. 769 MJ - 2 MR . J. HODDER: three people interested. Now, the people of the district want a say as to wh.o is going to operate. the plant and they want assurances :from the minister that there will b~ as many jabs afterwards a~ before. There are some people in the district who are. desirous of meeting with the mini,ster. The enly questions I have to ask the minister is to tell us in the House of ~ssembly, to tell us formally, what companies have m~e representation or have shown an interest in taking over that plant,and to tell the House of Assembly what c~:>mpany he plans to choose.

Because .the deadline is over now and compan;l.es. ha~e responded. I know personally of four that are interested in that particular fish plant. I have some opt.i,ons,but the government has the power and th.ey have th.e resources to be able to check out those companies. The people of th.e area are only asking 1714

March 29, 1983 T9-pe 770 EC - 1 MR. HODDER: that they be allowed to give representation to the minister before the plant opens. I think, Mr. Chairman, that I stood here and spoke on Private Members Day,the Wednesday before last,and I laid out to the House of Assembly the problem in the district, and I had intended to ask a question of the minister today to find out what he was doing. I missed the opportunity and I stand here now to ask the same quest~on. Now, "the minister has made some statements that he is going to play politics on the issue and that he is going to go out there and play his little games.

I will tell the House of Assembly I do not care what the minister does. Wpether he takes me out to the district or he does not take me out to the district, that does not matter to me. But one thing I want the minister to do in the interest of the people of that area is I want him to open the plant,because there are people who are ready to fish and they are waiting to get into the fishery. MR. NEARY: Right on! MR. HODDER: And I have in no way started any kind of· a confrontation in this House of Assembly today.

I feel very strongly about the particular issue and I realize that there are people, plant workers, management, all of the fishermen on the Peninsula with the exception of Fox Island River and Black Duck Brook, all of those people are waiting to see what is going to happen. They want to know. They are not putting their nets in the water, they are not getting ready for the herring ·season and there is generally gloom and doom throu~hout the area. And all I want to know from the minister - I do not care if he goes out with the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg), I do not care if he takes 1715

March 29, 1983 Tape 770 EC - 2 MR. HODDER: the Premier and the whole Cabinet and holds a Cabinet meeting on the roof of the fish plant, but what I do care is that he opens that plant and that he gets somebody in there who is going to give a measure of employment - MR. TULK: Instead of yapping off. MR. HODDER : - gives a level of employment in the area that will get the ·people who were working in the plant their jobs back. It was the only industry in the area.

And just as important, I would like to see some assurance given to the fishermen, because there are people who are actually waiting, they are sort of negative about the whole thing and they will not get committed to the fishery until they hear whether there is going to be a buyer or not. The other thing I would like to mention to the minister is that the minister said in this House that he was going to take the licence away from National Sea for lobster and herring. Well, that just has not happened.

I was in the district this weekend and the people are telling me that National Sea are doing exactly what they said they were going to do. They pulled out of the fish plant at the last moment; now they are back setting up their buyers to pick up the lobster. They have made it known to people that they will be going back for the lucrative lobster, but that is it. Now, Mr. Chairman, you know, these are questions that we would like to have answered because, .certainly, if National Sea are in there buying then it is going to be very difficult for another company to come in and make a profit.

So I just wanted to ask the minister a.couple of questions. 1716

March 29, 1983 Tape 770 EC ~ 3 MR. HODDER: But I have never in my life stood up in this House of Assembly to ask a serious question and got the kind of abuse that I got from the minister. MR. NEARY: Right on! MR. HODDER: He actually said that. 1717

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 771 MR. HODDER: I have not seen him play politics yet. I did not get up in any confrontational way, Mr. Chairman - MR. MORGAN: Your colleague did in SD - 1 Question Period today. MR. HODDER: MR. NEARY: Oh, what my colleague did - I beg your par~on? MR. MORGAN: MR. HODDER: Assembly - MR. MORGAN: you disagree with him? MR. HODDER: Well, he is your leader •. Mr. Chairman, this House of Do you agree with him or do - is no different than any other House in the world,in Canada or in the British Commonwealth. Is the minsiter telling me that because of the fact that an Opposition - MR.

NEARY: Do not worry, I will send the Hansard down. The Hansard will go to Burin, you need not worry about that. MR. HODDER: Oppositions work much the same way in every Legislature, Mr. Chairman. MR. NEARY: I will get the Hansard down. This one will go too, do not worry. Thi:: one will go down to Burin. MR. HODDER: And now I am told that the people of my district may suffer - MR. NEARY: - and Grand Bank and St. Lawrence ~nd.Gaultois and all the rest·of them. MR. HODDER: - because I stood up in the House of Assembly and my colleague had upset tt.e minister. The people of my district - MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible} MR.

HODDER: Would the member for Burin - Placentia· :'!est -you know, I am feeling serious about this • 1718

March 29, 1983 Tape No , 771 SD - 2 MR. HODDER: I mean, this is something that ~ you know, the member is always talking about his own fish plant. MR. TOBIN: But your leader is harassing me. MR. HODDER: Mr. Chairman, this Eou.se of Assembly is not much different. I :sat in the Houses right across · Canada or in the Mother of Parliament, the House of Commons in England. MR. STAGG: Were you there? MR. HODDER: No, I have not been there bu.t I certainly heard about it and one day I hope .to go there. But Oppositions are there to try to find out from the government ~he government's policies.

If someth.in9 happened in Question Period today that upset the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) I do not think he should take it out on the people from Port au Port. "Come on, 'Fred', we will go out together and we will do that''. Mr. Cha;Lmnan, I have never seen the like of that in the House of Assembly before in my life. And, Mr. Chairman, certainly the minister, I think, owes the people of Part au Port an apology.

I mean, I, as their representative, whichever side of this House I sit on, have to bring their views to the minister and to this House, And I have tried to do it in as fair a manner as I possibly can. Eut to get the type of abuse that I received, it is not only unfair to this House but I think it is unfair to the fishermen, to the plant workers and to the management in the district. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylw ·ard) : The han, the :-iiniste't' of Fisheries, SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Chairman, the han. gentleman's political skin gets awfully sensitive these day;:;, The non, gentleman from Port au Port (}.tr. Hodder) - his political 1719

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 771 so - 3 MR . MORGAN: skin is really sensitive. I think he is really scared about what is going to happen to him in the next election, if things go the way they seem to be going against him over in the area. That is his main problem.

The hon. gentleman cannot stand in the House and say truthfully and sincerely that there was ever a problem, never at any time was there a problem in connection with the fishing industry in his riding that when he came to me and brought it to my attentipn that I.have not dealt with it as fast and as adequately as possible and usually the problems were resolved. X cantfot think of one problem that was brought to my attention by the hon. gentleman regarding a fishery matter that was not dealt with and dealt- with adequately, 1720

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 772 NM - 1 MR. MORGAN: Now, unfortunately, today in Question Period the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) · tried to drive a wedge between the two · governments over the restructuring, to try to climb out of the hole he got himself buried in . Because the fact is he was on CBC - and CBC do not carry Morgan these da ys very much, and I think there is a good reason why. MR. NEARY: Yes, there is a good reason is why. MR. MORGAN: There is a good reason why .

There is a good reason why and it will be made publi~ in the next five or si x days why , and then the public of Newfoundland wil~ know why. He was on CBC·s~ying that the Peckford Governmerit was closing down- MR. NEARY : Are you going to sue them? MR. MORGAN: Mr. Chairman, please~ When the hon. gentleman speaks I very seldom interrupt him, so please now. MR. TULK: MR . MORGAN: What are you going to settle for? Mr. Chairman, this yappy fellow from Fogo (Mr. Tulkl please, please, please, please~ He does not know anything about the fishery, please keep him quiet . MR. CH'AIRMAN (Aylward): Order, please! MR.

MORGAN: Mr. Chairman, the fact is the:<;? are driving to drive a wedge and that same gentleman was on the CBC network throughout the Province, I have a tape of it, sayin~ that the Peckford Government is closing down the plant in Grand Bank, the Peckford Government was closing 1721

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 772 NM - 2 MR. MORGAN: the plant in Burin, the Peckford Governmentwas closing down the plants in Gaultois and up in Fermeuse. And now he is trying to leave the impression- because we stand firmly to keep those plants open - if they do notkeep ?pen,to try to still blame the Newfoundland Government for having these plants closed. Then he has the nerve to get up and say, "Oh, my,they are playing politics with the fishery. They are playing politics with the fishing industry." Well, Mr.

Chairman, if making every possible effort to get the plant open.in Burin, and get the plant to continue operating at Grand Bank, and the :9lant in St. Lawrence reope~d, and the plant in Fermeuse·to carry on as a deep-sea ope!rat-Ji6n,•and the plant at Gaultois to reopen, and if playing politics is getting the plant at Piccadilly reopened 1 then I am going to play politics. I will play it every day, day in and day out. And now I guess I will be accused,because in the next two or three weeks I will haveithe Piccadilly plant reopened, things are coming along the way I want to see them corre.

I said in this House a little .while ago - the hon. gentleman has left his seat now you see. He does not want to hear the facts now you see. He gets up and he raises heck because I was leaving the House and going down somewhere to a meeting and he says, "Look, he would,nbt even listen to what I say in the House. He is taking his colleague with h.im over to the west coast." And now that I am going to give him all the information he leaves his seat. Government will leave no stone unturned to get the Piccadilly· plant reopened, the same as the other plants that are closed. :::1.e 1722

March 29, 1983 Tape 773 PK -1 MR. MORGAN: And I am convinced that I will be able to announce the reopening of that plant i~ a very short time. But ,if I am playing politics in reopening the plant in Piccadilly,! must be also playing politics in reopening the plant in Burin,or keeping it open,or reopening the plant in Gaultois. What is all this about the government playing politics in trying to keep plants open? We get accused of playing politics for keeping a plant open in one of our own colleague's districts but when we keep a plant open or reopen a plant in the Opposition's district it is different.

Oh, no, do not play politics then. Do not play politics in an Opposition member's district. How foolish and how silly. Naivete. It is naivete. The fact is, Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman who asked the question and r think he is sincere, I will say to him again there is never going to be a time when any member of the Opposition comes to me with a genuine problem on the fishing industry that I will not do everything in ~y power, my ubrnost,to resolve that problem. And the day will never come when I will turn them down. Never, as long as I am Minister of Fisheries.

And I say it to this Assembly and to this Committee very sincerely. Always. And last week when the hon. gentleman carne to me about Piccadilly, I said then and I stand by it,that we would take the licences from National Sea, that we would arrange to call for bids from companies and offer the companies who would be interested in bidding all the licences and take them away from National Sea. I said it in the Ho~;;-of-Assembly in answering questions. And I stand by what I said. And when the day comes that I cannot stand by what I say in this House t will not be here.

Any thing I say in this House I will say outside of the House. 1723

March 29, 1983 Tape 773 PK - 2 MR. MORGAN: I have Qeen here eleven years now and there has never been a time that what I have said in this House of Assembly, I have always said outside of the House of Assembly. And I said then - MR. CALLAN: MR. MORGAN: MR. cHAIRMAN (Aylward} : MR. MORGAN: Mr. Innuendo. Mr. Innuendo. Now, Mr. Chairman, just listen Order, please! - to that little fellow over there from Bellevue (Mr. Callan} .. You very seldom hear from him in debate, he just yaps across the House. Please, please, Mr • . Chairman, I want protection from the Chair. MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please! ,Order! ' MR.

MORGAN: He does not get involved in debate, and he very seldom has the intelligence to get involved in debate. He likes to yap across the House all of the time. MR. CALLAN: Yes, and there (inaudible). MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please! MR. MORGAN: Mr. Chairman, I ask for your protection. MR. CH:AIRMAN: Order, please! MR. MORGAN: Now, Mr. Chairman, the situation is that in Piccadilly - I can assure the han. member that in saying things about taking my colleague, I told him a few days ago and I stand by it, I am willing to go to the district with him and my colleague for Stephenville (Mr.

Stagg), I will meet with the Fishermen's Committee or Union Committee in here, and I will leave no stone unturned and any information we have of what is going on in Piccadilly, the han. gentleman is entitled to know as an elected representative of the people. So, Mr. Chairman, it is wrong to - again I want to repeat - to suddenly say that we are playing politics with the reopening of the Burin plant and the other plants, and at ~ same time, when we try to get something done in their respective districts that we can no longer play politics. You cannot have youF c~ke and eat it too, as the saying goes. 1724

March 29, 1983 Tape 774 EC - 1 MR. MORGAN: So, Mr . Chairman, for the han. gentleman's information - and he can say that too this afternoon I advised him through the House of Assemb~y - he is the member for the area; and I do not want to go out and say, well, you know, I got this done and that done. As long as it gets done, I do not care. The information is as follows, Mr.

Chairman: For his infor­ mation, we asked for bids from the companies and five companies in the Western part of the Provin~e gave us submissions or expressed interest enough to give us by telex or telephone conversation an indication that they are interested in taking over the Piccadilly plant. And these companies to date - I can name them off - are Belle Isle Sea Foo9s Limited, Eastern Fisheries Limited, T. J. Hardy Company Limited, Eric King Fisheries Limited and Notre Dame Bay Fisheries. Now these are the five companies. Now, three of these companies are very serious.

So they came to us and said, 'Your deadline of April 25th, we think, is a bit too soon. AN HON, MEMBER: March. MR. MORGAN: I mean, March 25th - ' is a bit too soon and we want to get things done as 'quickly as possible. • They said, 'Look, we do not have time to do all the work that needs to be done, get a proposal done properly and get it in to you, giving you all the infor­ mation. Will you give us a few more days?' We said, . 'Okay, gentlemen, we will give you until April 4th, a few more days .' And those three companies out of the five I mentioned, :are very serious.

So we said, 'Okay, we want all information in by April 4th. 1 So I can tell the han. gentleman now that before any decision is made 1725

.... March 29, 1983 Tape 774 EC - 2 MR. MORGAN: by the Department of Fisheries and by this government, as I told him earlier, I will consult with him as the nember, I will consult with the Fishermen's Committee or the ~nion ~ommittee, either out in the area or with them in St. John's, depending on the schedule. And to get a clear understanding of what we are going to do before we make a decision, it is going to be satisfactory to the people in the Piccadilly area. Mr.

Chairman, I say again before I finish my comments that the people in Piccadilly involved in the fishing industry are just as important as those in St. Anthony, the people in St. Anthony just as important as those in Burin, the people in Burin just as important as those out in Trepassey. There is no exception, with regard to who their member is or how they voted in the last election. There is nothing of that nature involved in the fishing industry. I have maintained that position and I will always maintain that position as long as I am in this portfolio. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

NEARY: Mr. Chairman. 1726

March 29,1983 MR.CHAIRMAN (Ay h;ard): Opposition. MR.NEARY: Tape No. 775 ah-1 The hon. ·Leader of the Mr. Speak~r, yesterday over at Holiday Inn there was a people's conference. A people's conference was called to deal with the urgent problems that are confronting the people who live in communities that depend on the deep-sea fishery. At that people's conference a resolution was passed , Mr. Chairman, a resolution that pretty well covered all aspects of the problems as the people saw them. The resolution was passed unanimously.

There were a number of minlsters and members of the government benches at that-conference. The resolution was passed unanimously, Mr. Speaker, and now today what we see in this House are the same ministers and the same members supporting a Johnny-come­ lately plan · put forward by the administration that contradicts the resolution that was passed yesterday and weakens the resolution that was passed yesterday at the people's conference. I heard the hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) get up and unconditionally, without reservation support this resolution. AN HON.MEMBER: Did you?

MR.NEARY : I think I said I wanted my name put first on the list. MR.TULK: That is right. MR.NEARY: And today the same hon~ gentleman comes in and supports a plan put together in a hurry, put together since last Wednesday by the administration that completely contradicts the resolution and will only, at this point, muddy up the water and delay, Mr. Chairrnam, delay the reopening of the plants in Burin, Ramea, Gaultois, Harbour Breton, Fermeuse,and all the other communities where - St. Lawrence- and all the other communities where fish plants are presently closed. 1727

March 29,1983 Tape No . 775 ah-2 MR.NEARY: It will only delay, and the reason I say that, Mr . Chairman, is that these mat ters that have been laid down , and there are twelve of th .em, laid down in the Premier's letter - MR.MORGAN: Do you agree or disagree? MR.NEARY: It is not whether I agree or disagree,because let me say to the hon. gentleman that what the administration did was sift through the ideas of all the other principles. SOME · HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.~Y: Could I have order please? MR.CHAIRMAN (Aylward): Order, please!

MR.NEARY: What the admi,nistration did was sift through the ideas put forward in this House by the Opposition, they sifted thr~lllgh the ideas that were put forward by the union, they sifted through the ideas that were•put on the table by the federal government, they put their own iabel on them and said, 'Here 'is our policy.' Mr. Chairman, that is what they did. They said, yes, yes, yes. What they did was say, yes, yes, yes to every idea that has been put forward in the last year by the·various principles and parties that are involved. 1728

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 776 MJ - 1 MR. B • :I'ULK: It is the first time we heard from them since th~ plants closed. MR. NEARY : It is worthy of note, Mr~ Chairman, that the provincial position is almost an exact duplicate or a carbon copy of the one that we outlined here last week and the one that has been outlined by the union, not only last week but last year. MR. G. TOBIN: After you got your telephone call. After you got your telephone call. MR. NEARY: Now , Mr.

Chairman, that all the other principles have issued statements of pol _icy, havg stated their position, have stated their opinions, have told of the innovative steps that they would take to restructure the fishing industry, the provincial government has finally said, 'Yes, yes, yes, yes', to all of these ideas and proposals. And, as I say, they picked out the best ideas, put their own label on them and they called that a provincial policy. But, Mr . Chairman, that is not what concerns me now. It is the timing that concerns me now because, Mr. Chairman, if - MR.

TULK: The Premier said they will have to start negotiations . MR. NEARY : The Premie r stated today during Question Period, in answer to a question that ! put to hi ·m, that they will now have to start negotiations on the proposal that he put forward on March 23, A.nd with the track record of this administration in negotiating with the Government of Canada, Mr. Chairman, I ask you, will any negotiations succeed? And even if they qo succeed, which I doubt very much, if they do succeed, Mr. Chairman, how long will it take to negotiate these twelve items in this proposal?

It . will take anywhere, I would submit, fro!l'l a few weeks up to 100 years. How long will it take to negotiate 1729

...... March 29, 1983 Tape No. 776 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: the foreign fi~hing fl-eet .out Qf the 200 mile management zone? How long will that ta.ke? PREMIER. PECKFORD: They can do ;i.t immed;ia.tely, MR. NEARY: They ca.n d.o it immediately? The hon. gentleman would. ;:;ta:r.'t the th;i.X'd world wa,r. How long will it take to :r:e;:;o1ve the agreement with the French? How long, Mr. Chairman, w-i.ll it take to carry out Item 1, that a single t:ra.wle:r c0mpapy should. be created to operate Newfoundland. l:>ased t:r;oawle;~;s?

They are not saying as the ·re·solution sa:i.d. - they al."e not talking about the objectives, they are making .a. definite statement. They are not saying that the OJ?tion of the . separation - as the resolution ;:;ays - the option of th,e separation of the fleet and community owne~ship 0~ process:i.ng plants be examined.. They a:re not say;i.ng exa.rn.i,ne :i.t down the :r:oad.# they a:r:e saying, 'We want it now. I How long w;i,ll ,i,t take to do that, Mr. Chairi!lan? In the rnea.nt;i,me, 1730

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 777 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: all of these communities that have fish_ plants that are closed, and yesterday we heard it over at th_e people's conference, we heard their views, everyone in his turn went to the microphone and said, 'Let us go_for option number three as amended,and let u~ get these plants open. That is our number one priority.' Mr. Chairman, that is what I heard and I was there. And han. gentlemen voted for it. They voted for that principle when they voted for the resolution. MR. TOBIN: Are you against this? MR. NEARY: The han. gentleman should listen to what I am saying.

All that will do 'at this point in time is muddy up the water, it will delay the process. It will not do anything to get these plants open. What the administration should have done - MR. TOBIN: they should not be open. l1R. NEARY: You got up here today and said I certainly did not, Mr. Chairman. The han. gentleman cannot make statements like that in this House. The Hansard will go - SOME HON. MEl1BERS: Oh, oh. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order, plea•se! MR. NEARY: -to all the communi ties on th~ Burin Peninsula. And the han. gentleman cannot make untrue statements.

The Premier thinks he can make them and get away with it. The Premier is suffering from hallucinations. I know the caucus-and the party are trying to deal with his hallucinations; they are having a problem,as we can see from today,because he is still suffering from hallucinations. They do not have it under control yet. When he makes these untrue statements he gets up and he points his finger at a member across the House,and it has no relation to the question, no relationship at all to the topic under discussion, and he 1731

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 777 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: says, 'Ah, the hon. gentleman is against this, the hon. gentleman isagainstrnotherhood, the hon. gentleman ~s against this', right off the top of his head, Mr. Chairman. And obviously they do not have him under control yet. . Once in a while he cuts loose; probably leaves his little bottle horne, cuts loose and goes mad, right off his rocker again, as he did today. Because, Mr. Chairman, there was no such indication from this side of the House, there was no implication. As a matter of fact, Mr.

Chairman, I can say the opposite, that we are concerned, we want to get these plants opened. We are concerned that the timing of this so-called statement of policy can only delay, because hon. members know from the discussion yesterday that meeting~ will take place in Ottawa, possibly before Easter. And if the administration wants to get these plants open what they should have done, they should have gotten squarely behind the People's.Conference yesterday and said, 'We support without reservation unconditionally'. MR. TOBIN: We did, four square. MR.

NEARY: But the Premier has not said that today. 'We support unconditionally option number three as amended'. And what is option number three? MR. MATTHEWS: When was it amended. MR. CHAIRMAN (Alyward) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, if I remember correctly and the hon. gentleman was there and obviously he was not listening, option number three is the one that is on the table. The united front that carne out of the People's Conference yesterday was to amend option three. 1732

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 778 NM - 1 MR. MATTHEWS: Oh, I thought Mr. Simmons was in favour of that last week. MR. NEARY: So he is in favour of it . ~m. MATTHEWS: Last week or last night? MR. NEARY: Yes,he is in favour of it last week and today. But what we are finding out today - the hon. gentleman is em£arrassed oecause the Premier and the Administration are not supporting option three as amended. MR. TOBTN: We are supporting the opening of all the plants. MR. NEARY: Are you supporting option three as amended,if they can get it amended? MR. MATTHEWS: You do not even know what it is. MR.

NEARY: I do know what it is, Mr. Chairman. It is a .merger oetween Nickersons, the Lake Group of companies, Fishery Products · and J. C. Penny. Now th .e hgn. gentleman knows what it is. MR. TULK: Now that is the option. MR. NEARY: Now that is the option. That iS Option number three 1 Mr • Chairman • Now,yesterday the People's Conference said, "Okay, we will go for option three if the Cabinet in Ottawa, the Cabinet Committee will amend it to reopen the plants." Now, Mr. cq.airman, you cannot be any more plain than that to hon. gentlemen. But the administration will not support that.

They are saying, "Now we want this," and this will take months and years to negotiate. MR. HODDER: They have muddied up the water. MR. NEARY: They have muddied up the water, 1733

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 778 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, and that is what I am concerned about. The people in Burin and Grand Bank and St. Lawrence and Gaultois and Rarnea want action now. They do not want any more procrastination on the part of the administration, one-upmanship. What they are doing now, Mr. Chairman, they are trying to upstage the people's conierence. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward ') : Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. The han. the member for Burin- Placentia West. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: Mr.

Chairman, I feel the necessity to get involved in this debate today because of the attitude and the approach taken by the Leader of the 'opposition (Mr. Neary), an attitude, Mr. Chairman, that will not be accepted by the people of the Burin Peninsula. I am sure that I can speak not only on behalf of my constituents but also on behalf of the constituents of my colleague from.Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews}, and my colleague from . Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Stewart) ., and everywhere else. Now, Mr. Chairman, he wants to talk about options, Option Three and Option Three amended.

For the record, and I think it has been said before by the good Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) 1 on the table there was not one option that included the reopening of Grand Bank, that included the reopening of Burin, that included the reopening of Gaultois, that included the reopening of - Grand Bank, Gaultois MR. MORGAN: Fermeuse~ MR. TOBIN: ' - Ferrneuse, that was going to be seasonal - MR. MORGAN: St. Lawrence. 1734

March 29., 1983 Tape No. 778 NM -3 MR. TOBTN: -and St. Lawrence. Not one, Mr. Chairman, not one proposal was being studied by the Feder~l Cabinet Committee that included the reopening of either one of these plants. When, Mr. Chairman, when was the proposal put on the table to deal with the reopening of these plants on the Burin Peninsula, and wh.o was it put on b.y? It was put on last Thursday by the Newfoundland Government. That was when .the .. issue of the closed plants on the Burin Peninsula was dealt with and on the South Coast of this Province, it was -last Thursday,by none other than the provincial government. ·-. . - Mr. Speaker, what option were the companies favouring? ·. 1735

March 29, 1983 Tape 779 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Last Thursday .? What an admission of guilt. MR. TOBIN: What an admission of guilt, Mr. Chairman. MR. NEARY: Chly last Thurs:lay they put that proposal. MR. TOBIN: The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) says, what an admission of guilt. MR. NEARY: What a gross insult to your constitutents. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Chairman, two weeks ago the Minister of risheries (Mr. Morgan) went up an~ met before the Cabinet Committee MR. NEARY: Wait until your .constituents find that out. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. TOBIN: the Cabinet Committee that Mr.

Simmons says he has so often met with, and it was the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morgan) from this government that stopped Option No. 1, Mr. Chairman, that had been accepted by the federal Capinet and that would have permitted the close- down indefinitely, Mr. Chairman, the closedown of the plants on ·the South Coast and the Burin Peninsula. That is the man who stopped the federal government · from accepting it. MR. NEARY: What is that? MR. TOBIN: Yes, the Minister of Fisheries. MR. NEARY: Last Thursday. . MR. TOBIN: No, it was not last Thursday. Now, Mr. Chairman - MR. NEARY: Oh,two weeks ago. MR.

TOBIN: - that is how knowledgeable the Leader of the Opposition is. Mr. Chairman, we remember last Thursday when the Minister of Fisheries and the Premier of this Province were in Ottawa. 1736

March 29, 1983 Tape 779 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: We remember it . MR. TOBIN: We remember it , Mr. Chairman. We remember it well. Do you want to know why? Because that is the day the telephone was ringing in the Opposition Leader's of.fice, letting him know what was taking place. MR. NEARY: Wrong. MR. TOBIN: That is the day the Leader of the Opposition took the stand on the fisheries in this Province, it was when he was told - MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) MR. TOBIN: That is right.

When he was told what the Newfoundland's Government stand was, that was when the Leader of t~ Opposition and the Liberai ~arty took a stand on the fisheries in this Province, Mr. Chairman. · Now,let me say something else; the plant at Burin would have never been closed, Mr. Chairman, if MR. NEARY: not be closed. MR. TOBIN: If they had a good member, it would - if they had listened , Mr. Chairman,to the Premier of this Province when he sent a telegram to Mr . De Bane. He requested, he pleaded with .Mr. De Bane 'Plaase,join with me and the people at Burin in requesting Fisheries Products to keep the plant open'.

Mr. Chairman, has Mr. De Bane ever acknowledged that telegram. MR. TOBIN: I do not know. The people of Burin certainly do not know. We do know, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. De Bane and the rest of them sat idly by and never lifted a finger to help reopen the fish plant at Burin. Aftd, Mr. Chairman, do you know something? we will never forget it on the Burin Peninsula either. There is going to be a time for that. 1737

March 29, 1983 Tape 779 PK - 3 MR. STAGG: Where was Roger? Where was Roger all this time? MR. TOBIN: Where was ·he? MR. STAGG: Roger, yes. MR. TOBIN: Long oefore my day, Mr. Chairman, he got the name 'Roger the dodger'. I certainly d,id not give it to him. I Now, Mr. C~i~an, they want to talk about Option 3, a,mended, the resolution that wa~ put forth yesterday. Ye1;1, Mr. Chai:onan, l d±d fil\ll)port the resolution yesterday and I support it agai.n t~d~. But here is the answer~ the revolution of the Newfoundland fishing in4ustry, Mr •• Chairman, the revolution that is going­ to take place, is when this ;:docUment has been carefully Mr. Chairman, considered and pres~nted. This 1738

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 780 JV - 1 MR. TOBIN: administration has always been noted, Mr. Chairman, ~or having its homework done when it comes to making presentations, and I can assure you that this presentation was no different. Last week, Mr. Chairman, I became aware that the Provincial government'-s proposal was ready to be presented. I have been aware for some time, Mr. Chairman, before I was elected even, that this government cared for the people of Burin-Placentia West, as they did for all rural Newfoundland.

When we became aware that the Newfoundland Government was about to publicly state their case to reopen all the fish plants on the South coast, indeed all the fish plants that were closed, Mr. Chairman, we were very pleased on the Burin Peninsula. This past weekend the Minister of Fisheries tMr. Morgan) along with myself and my good colleague from Grand Bank, went to the Burin Peninsula. Friday night we met with the Action Committee and the Town Council in Burin. Well, Mr. Chairman, I can tell you right now that the Minister of Fisheries for this Province was given such a reception in Burin, the same in St.

Lawrence, which I am· sure my coll~ague wilT-address later, the same in Grand · Bank Mr. Chairman. Everytime he spoke there were standing ovations, no problem. Do you know what I saw yesterday at the meeting at Holiday Inn? The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. N~ary) standing up and cheering for the Newfoundland Minister of Fisheries for the good work he was doing - joined with the other Newfoundlanders and cheered the Minister of Fisheries for the tremendous work he has been doing for the ~ishery. 1739

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 780 JV - 2 MR. YOUNG: MR. STAGG: of salt? MR. TOBIN: Did he do that? Did he turn into a pillar No. I must say he was straight- forward about it, no problem.; The member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) had no· 'problem . standing up and cheering for the Minister of Fisheries> (Mr. Morgan). Now, Mr. Chairman, who else got it there? Did the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) when he spoke? Did Mr. Simmons get it when he spoke? The Minister of Fisheries was continuously being interrupted by by the people applauding him for the work he has been doing.

The member says that this could be a delaying tactic for th~ fishery. Mr. Chairman,! say that this could be the saviour of the fishery. What the fishery needs today,Mr. Chairman, in this Province, is what this proposal outlines. Put the fishery,Mr. Chairman - 1D.o not b·ail out the companies~ The mayor of Burin has said it for so long, so many times, that great Newfoundlander, that man down in Burin, that great Newfoundlander who has had the courage to stand up and fight,Mr.' Chairman, big and small for the sake of the fishery. 1740 ,-

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 781 MJ - l MR. G. TOBIN: He said it, this Newfoundland .-Government has said it, 'Do not bail out the companies any longer. Let us restructure the industy and not the companies .' Now, Mr . Chairman , for some strange reason the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) and the Liberal Party have taken a negative attitude towards th is presentation. I do not know why, Mr. Chairman. I can only interpret it as a fact that they must not want the plants to be reopened 1 and I think that is a, sad day for the Liberal Party of this Province. We know, Mr.

Chairman, we have known for some time that the Liberal Party was confused in its direction. We knew, Mr, Chairman, that there was going to be proble~s. MR. PEACH: They do not have a leader, MR, TOB!N: What i:; that? MR. PEACH: They do not have a leader. MR. TOBIN: They do not have a leader. No, Mr. Chairman, I would not go so far a:; to say that they do not have a leader, they do have a, leader, the type of leader that I would like to see leading the Liberal· Party, Mr. Chairman, for someti~e. Because I would like to be around politics for some :time, and I would U,ke to take advantage of 'every asset I can. ~m .

F. STAGG: So, you consider the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) an asset for the Conservative party,do you? MR. TOBIN: Oh, most definitely he is an asset for the Conservative Party, However, Mr , Chairman, what option did the people want to accept in Ottawa to restructure the fishing industry? What option was it that the banks wanted? What option was ;i,t that the canapnies ,.,anted? What option was it that Price Waterhouse wanted? What option was it that 1741

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 781 MJ - 2 MR. G. TOBIN: Mr. Kirby wanted? We know·, Mr. Chairman, it was QJlion No. 1, Option No. 1 that would pennit the strong Utopian company in Nova Scotia and a very weak si~ter in Newfoundland. What else was included in that package? Would it surprise anyone, Mr. Chairman, that in that package was a proposal 'for freezer trawlers to process the fish that was going to be caught off our coast out there? And I believe, Mr. Chairman, that it was the Premier I heard saying this morning that if that is to happen, if that is permitted to happen, Mr.

Chairman, then one day we as Newfoundlanders would look out in that far greater bav and see this great processing ship and we will be able to say, 'That was once Burin.' And, Mr. Chai.I:rran, we will look at the other freezer trawler, the processing ship,and we will be able to say that that was once Grand Bank. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward): Order, please! The hon. the member's time has elapsed. HR. STAGG: By leave, Mr. Chairman. MR. TOBIN:. By leave, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does the hon. the member have leave? I1R. NEARY: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, leave is not granted. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. MR.

CHAIRMAN: The hon. the Leader of ~he Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, I made a comment on the hon. gentleman who just took his seat there,last Se~s~on of.the House,that 1742

March 29,1983 Tape No. 782 ah -1 MR. NEARY: he is in the learning process. This is his first year, He has not been a full year in this House yet, and I would submit to the han. gentleman with that kind of language that he just used in this House, Mr. Chairman~ and the people in Burin will get the Hansard , and the people in Grand Bank and Gaultois and all the other communities will get the Hansard, and they will see for themselves what the hon. gentleman said .

And I would submit that if the han. gentleman wants to ma ke a career out of politics - I do not think he is suited for it, by the way,- but if he wants to make a,.career­ AN HON. MEMBER: MR.NEARY: opinion, . That is your opinion. That is right, That is my not the hon. gentleman's opinion . I would submit, Mr. Chairman, that the han. gentleman ,if he is , interested in making a career out of politics, that he sit in this House and listen to what is being said and · try to learn something. Now I can lead a horse to water but I cannot make him drink ..

What ! am . saying to the han. gentleman and to the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) and the member who represents Gaultois and Ramea, what I am saying to these han. gentlemen is that they went over yesterday and they supported a resolution. at the People's Conference and then they came back and they were probably scolded by the Premier and told,'Now, boys, look, We are going to look sick because we do not have a policy so , even though you supported the resolution 1 you are going to have to support this policy that we put together in a hurry.

We started last Wednesd.ay , we put it together, we have to have some kind of a statement that we can make to try to show the people that we are doing something.' Mr. Chairman, the han . -members who were at the People's Conference 1743

March 29,1983 Tape No. 782 ah-2 MR.NEARY: yesterday will remember the trend, the tone of the discussion.And the tone of the discussion was this-- MR. STAGG: Get rid of Neary. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentlemen were more interested in getting standing ovations than they were in facing the facts because that seems to be the big point with them today. Mr. Chairman, they did not listen to the facts.

The facts are these; It was unanimous yesterday at that conference that everybody wanted to put the pressure on the Government of Canada, on the seven-member Cabinet committee in Ottawa, and they wanted a united front to go out from this Province to Ottawa, a message to go out that everybody was united in one thing. ,And what were they unanimous in? They were unanimous in wanting the plants reopened immediately and that it ~ould be done through the implementation of Option 3 amended. Now hon. gentlemen are skating on very thin ice , Mr. Chairman.

They are figureskating on thin ice after going over yesterday and telling the People's Conference,' Yes, we are all for Option 3 being amended. We will accept that.' Everybody cheered and clapped and everybody went to the microphone and endorsed it,including hon. gentlemen opposite,and now they are saying no 1744

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 783 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: because that Cabinet Committee is going to meet this week - MR. MATTHEWS: Who told you that? MR. NEARY: They have already delayed a decision, Mr. Chairman. The hon. gentleman was told yesterday that the provincial government asked for a two week delay, which was granted, and now they are asking for more delays on this presentation. Mr. Chairman, this document, and I am not debating the merits or demerits of the proposal, this document will only cause further delay and further suffering to the people in these communities where plants are presently closed. MR.

TOBIN: Mre delay will improve it. MR. NEARY: The han. 'gentleman was not there, Mr. Chairman, but there was a proposal put forward at the People's Conference yesterday which, if adopted by the Cabinet Committee in Ottawa would get these plants open right away. And what we asked for at the People's Conference was support from this Province, because there is tremerrdous pressure not to go with option three, not to amend option three, so the federal MPs in Ottawa and the members on the Cabinet Committee who support option three as amended need all the support they can get.

And all they are getting from the provincial government here is half-hearted support. They are getting support with reservations, with conditions attached. The conditions attached are we want ail these things done. MR. TOBIN: A point of order, Mr. Ch .airman. 1745

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 783 MR. CHAIRMAN (A ylward) : Order, please! A point of order, the han. member for Burin - Placentia West. SD - 2 MR. TOBIN: Mr. Chairman, I do not think that the Leader of the Opposition (~r. Neary} is intentionally misleading the House, as a matter of fact, I would not say that for one minute or .would celieve for one minute that he is intentionally misleading the House, but what the hon. gentleman is saying is not factual.

The fact of the matter is that the Premier of this Province~ in the Cacinet room yesterday afternoon with the union, with the joint Town and Community Councils,with all the councils involved, endorsed the resolution whole-heartedly and sent it off to Ottawa. And I do not think that the Leader of the Opposition should be permitted to bring into this hon. House half truths. MR. NEARY: To that point of order, ~. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: To the poin~ · of order, the hon. Leader of the Opposltion. MR. NEARY: Obviously the hon. gentleman has not learned the rules, that is not a point of order, Mr. Chairman. MR.

CHAIRMAN: I rule that it is merely a difference of opinion cetween two hon . gentlemen. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. ·MR. NEARY: Mr. _ Chairman, what r am saying is 'that all well and good, they_may have endorsed a resolution, the Premier may have endorsed it.cut he did so conditionally. He endorsed the resolution wi _th reservations and that is. how it will be interpreted. 1746

March 29, 1983 Tape 784 EC - 1 MR. TOBIN: He did not. MR. NEARY: He certainly did. MR. TOBIN: He certainly did not. MR. NEARY: He said, 'We endorse the resolution but our proposals supercede the resolution. They are far-reaching proposals, they go further than the resolution.' MR. TOBIN: when everybody stood up. MR. NEARY: . stand up all they like. MR. CALLAN: You should have been there Well , Mr. Chairman, they can They were doing that all last Spring. What did they accomplish? MR. NEARY: Mr.

Chairman, they can continue to try to con and dupe the people but their bluff will soon be called, the bluff of the administration. ~· Chairman, before this day is over we should have a unanimous resolution passed in this House, there should be a resolution brought in by either the government side or this side and made unanimous that 'we support unconditionally, without reser­ vation, the resolution put forward yesterday by the People's Conference. MR. TOBIN: get the plants open, boy! MR .. NEARY: Let us '\\That I am telling you is you cannot get the plants open with this. The hon. gentleman is so dense, Mr.

Chairman! As I say, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. It will take months and years to straighten out this. DR. COLLINS: You are manoeuvering! You are manoeuvering! MR. NEARY: I am not manoeuvering. 1747

March 29, 1983 Tape 784 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, this is going to be a very i~portant week as far as the plants that are closed in Burin, Fermeuse, Gaultois, Ramea, St. Lawrence and Harbour Breton are concerned. This is going to be the most crucial week of all. And where is the government? Here, wishy-washy. They are floundering around. They are waffling, Mr. Chairman. The government is waffling on this resolution instead of the minister being up in Ottawa lobbying this very day and saying to the ministers, 'Look, we are united in Newfoundland. We want option three amended.

That is what we want.' But is the administratio ·n saying that, Mr. Chairman? No, they are not. They are waffling. ~IR. DINN: You do not agree ;lith the proposal. MR. NEARY: I am not talking about the merits or demerits of the proposal. MR. DINN: Oh, I see. Do you agree or do you not? MR. NEARY: What I am saying is that it would take months and years to unravel, to straighten this out and it only weakens the position put forward yesterday by the ~eoples' Conference. MR. DINN: They agree with it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, they may very well agree with it and no doubt in the long term there is a lot of. - MR.

TOBIN: Anything we do, you criticize. MR. NEARY: Well, I mean, it is copied from all the other statements that have been made and all the other proposals that have been made. It is just a carbon copy of things that have been said in this House. 1748

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 784 MR. NEARY ': Mr. Chairman, as I said, we are pleased to see that all the positions have been finally made public on the crisis in the fishing industry, and we 1749 IB-3

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 785 IB-1 MR. NEARY: hope, we trust, that the federal and provincial governments will now act to put into motion the positions that have been taken. We are glad to learn, Mr. Chairman,that Burin and all the other fishing cqmmunities may be taken care of-may be tak~n care of! May! May! That is the crucial question. Mr. Chairman, the people in these communities have already suffered too much anxiety and insecurity already and they need immediate action. MR. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN (AYLWARD) : A·point of order, the hon. President of the Council. MR..

MARSHALL : Mr. Chairman, I know the han. gentleman is as embarrassed as his f;iend, Mr. Simmons, is today. But the fact of the matter is he should have enough confidence to make his speech,not to read it. And it is against the rules of this House, Mr. Chairman, for somebody to read a prepared speech, which the han. gentleman ·obviously is doing in his insecurity. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, to that point of order. MR. CHAIRMAN: To that point of order, the han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. · NEARY: Mr.

Chairman, as usual the hon. gentleman is wrong because that statement that was made by the han. gentleman is completely untrue. I do not believe anybody on this side of the House reads speeches,especially myself. I think I am quite capable of going off the cuff and that is what I am doing now. I have no prepared speech, Mr. Chairman, but I wou14 say this to the han. gentleman, that the next time we see 1750

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 785 IB-2 MR. NEARY: a membel:' on that side of the House reading a speech then we will bring it to the hen. gentleman's attention. MR. ~~SHALL: Embarrassed,are you? MR. NEARY: No,I am not embarrassed becau·se I do not read speec::hes. MR. CHAIRMAN· (AYLWARD): To that point of order, ·while it· is correct that it is not the custom of the Bouse for people to read speeches, it is quite peonissible for people to refer to notes as they are giving their speeches. MR. NEARY: as usual , Mr. Chairman. .MR. CHAIRMAN: has elapsed. Bank. SOME RON.

MEMBERS : .MR ~ MATTHEWS: The hen. gentleman is wrong The hen • member' s time The hon. member for Grand Hear, hear! Thank . .you., Mr. Chairman. This evening in the bon. House 1751

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 786 JV - 1 MR. MATTHEWS: we are hearing a very lively, worthwhile debate on the fishery issue. I must say that since being elected to this House, today the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary)has been at his most inconsistent. I have seen him reverse himself completely, in just twenty-four hours, from the attitude, statenents .and comments he made yesterday to what he refers to as the People's Conference. But, of course, we are not surprised at that because when you do not have a policy, you do not have a position and you are not prepared.

We just heard the han. member state that he does not read from prepared speeches. While we do not have prepared speeches either, but we do formulate our points of view and put them in sequence and, of course, that is why when members on this side of the House get up to speak they all make a lot more sense than the han. Leader of the Opposition. I would also like to say, Mr. Chairman, that it has been very unusual in this House this past two weeks, because we have not heard a word from the opposition fisheries critic, and once again he is missing from his seat.

I do ' not know if he has been rail­ roaded by his leader, but for two weeks, going through this very critical state of fisheri~s in this Province, .we have not heard a word from the fisheries critic of the Opposition~ Now, there are a few points that .I would like to react -to ,.that have been commented on by the Leader of the Opposition and also by my colleague, the member for ]3urin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobinl and the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan). Now we hear the .Opposition accuse this government of taking a late position on the fishery. I would just like to make this point first, that when Dr.

Kirby was appointed by the Prime Minister to address the problems of the fishing industry, that Commission was 1752

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 786 JV - 2 MR. MATTHEWS: appointed to look into the troubled financial position of the fish companies. That was why the Task Force was established. But what did the Task Force do? They did not address the issues of the financially troubled companies first, they gave a general over-view of the fishery and today we see them still struggling to deal with the troubled financial companies. Yet the Leader of the Opposition {l~r. Neary) blames this government for delaying the decision to do something with the companies or to restructure the in4ustry. SOME HON. ME t-1B ERS : MR.

MATTHEWS: it is Mr. Kirby and his group. Hear, hear! So it is not this government, I would also like to say to the Leader of the Opposition that he is talking about Option 3 amended. Before yesterday, Option 3 amended was not heard tell of. Now I totally support the resolution that came from the conference yesterday, I totally support it and I said that publicly yesterday. What I am saying Mr. Chairman, is that Option 3 amended did not occur until yesterday, Monday, March 28th, while the provincial position was tabled last Thursday in Ottawa.

The Opposition says our position is too late but Option 3 amended is okay. Ten days later Option 3 is okay, but our position was too late ten days e~rlier. That is what I am talking about when I talk about inconsistency from the Leader of the Opposition and the other members opposite. Mr. Chairman, if only you could have been on the Burin Peninsula on Saturday, as .my colleague from Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) had said, if only you could have been there and have seen the reception that our Minister of Fisheries {Mr. Morganl rec~ived, and if you ·could have witnessed the reception that the MP for Burin-St.

George's, Mr. Roger .Simmons received, I am telling you it was something else. Mr. Simmons almost got thrown 1753

March 29, 1983 Ta pe No . 787 IB-l MR. MA TTH EW S : out of meetings on the Burin Peninsula on Saturday, because no option on the table in Ottawa, from option one to option four,included keeping open the plant i~ Grand Bank, included reopening Burin or St. Lawrence, opening Gau ·l to is, and also they wanted to phase dO\'i'n Femeuse. That is why Mr. Simmons almost got thrown off the Burin Peninsula because he, being their representative in Ottawa,did not have enough impact in Ottawa to have those plants included in either option. That is why. People in committees there walked out of the meetings.

And, of course, yesterday,when I attended the People's Conference at the Holiday Inn and I saw Mr. Simmons and I heard what he was saying, he had gone 360 degrees in forty­ eight hours and that is not a bad record. I would also like to say, Mr. Chairman, that before last week, before the provincial position was tabled in Ottawa, we all know what the Opposition's position was and we have got it here and we can show to members of the Opposition. It was, let the companies go, let them go,which would result in closing down the whole industry. Now what can be positive about that?

That was the Opposition position before last week, let the companies go, close down the whole South Coast. And now because we have a position on the Table which includes keeping all the pl~ts apen,the Opposition finds something negative about that. Well tomorrow 1 when the people of the South Coast are made aware by their representatives in this government as to exactly what has transpired in this House today, and they hear what the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) has said and how he has 1754

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 787 IB-2 MR . MATTHEWS: changed his attitude and his statements from yesterday - and I might go on to say that all communities on the South Coast were represented at the conference yesterday by fisheries committees, town councils, action groups; they were all there and they saw and they hea .rd the Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) - but, oh, what they are going to be saying tomorrow when they know how be bas flip -flopped once again in this House on that position, how he has flip-flopped, how he has changed his attitude. Now, I can remember yesterday at the 1755

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 788 MR. MATTHEWS: conference the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary). said, 'Oh, well, we supported the reopening of the plants'. Today IB-1 he has shown his true colours. He refers to our Premier as hallucinating. But I must say,Mr. Chairman, after seeing him yesterday, hearing him speak yesterday, seeing him today, hearing.him speak today, that he must have been in a daze yesterday, because the only thing that is the same today is his physical appearance; everything that he has said has been different. I also, Mr.

Chairman, would like to comment on a statement made by the Leader of the Opposition when he said that members on this side of the House who attended the conference yesterday were scolded by the Premier. We had our Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) there who spoke on behalf of this government. And, of course, the han. Leader of the Opposition would not know,but we all met with the Premier after and we met .with representatives from all communities and the Premier gave his personal support to the resolution. Of course 1we all know, Mr. Chairman, why·the Leader of the Opposition was not at the meeti~g.

We all know he could not be there because we all know it has been quite a while since the han. Leader of the Opposition has been in the Cabinet room and we 'just hope it will be a long while more before he returns to the Cabinet room •. I would also 1 in concluding my few remarks, Mr.

Chairman, like to say that I am very, .very disgusted and disappointed as a member representing the District of Grand Bank where there are three processing plants located, to sit here today and hear the Liberal Opposition in this Prov~nce really come out and say that they are opposed to reopening the plants along the South Coast and keeping others open. 1756

March 29, 1983 Tape No . 78 8 IB -2 MR. TOBIN: That is shameful! That is shameful! MR. MATTHEWS : I am telling you, Mr. Chairman, that will go back to the Burin Peninsula as fast as it Gan and then we will see what happens to the members of the Oppos ition. I might also say, Mr. Chairman, that in a former visit to the Burin Peninsula, and in particular to the town of Grand Bank by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) and the fisheries critic, they went to the South Coast to meet fishermen and representives of committees.

But I know all too well where the Leader of th~ Oppositionandthe fisheries critic went in Grand Bank. They went to the IGA store. Now if they were there, Mr. Chairman, trying to find markets for fish, trying to find markets to sell a bit of fish, I will go along with it. But for some other reason I do not really thing that was why they were there and maybe they would be willing to stand up and tell us who was there and why they were there. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. TULK: MR. CHAIRMAN (AYLWARD) : member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Hear, hear! A point of order, Mr. Chairman . A point of order, the han. I do not believe, Mr.

Chairman~ that the member for Grand Bank is intentionaily trying to misle .ad this House, but let me tell the member for Grand Bank that the person whom we met with concerning the fishery in Grand Bank was none other than the Mayor of Grand Bank. Thank you. MR . CHAIRMAN : To that point of order, there is no point:of order, merely a difference of opinion. The hon. member for Grand Bank. 1757

March 29, 1983 Tape No . 788 IB-3 MR. MATTHEWS : Thank you, Mr • Chair.man. That is very good·. I am very glad to hear that, Mr. Chairman, because I am sure most of us in this han ·. House have come to know the Mayor of Grand Bank, Mayor Max.Snook,over this past year since he became Mayor of Grand Bank. 1 and 1758

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 789 IB-1 MR. MATTHEWS: Mayor Snook is a school teacher. Mayor Snook teaches at the John Burke Regional High School in Grand Bank. Now why did they not meet with the Chairman of the Burin Peninsula Fisheries Improvement Committee or the Grand Bank Ways and Means Committee or the Fortune Concerned Citizens' Committee? MR. TULK: We did. MR. MATTHEWS : No, no,you did not. No, Mr. Chairman, they did not meet with any of those. The Salavation of the South Coast Fishery, this is what arrived, the delegation. Where did they go and who did they meet?

Not one fisherman in Grand Bank, not one Chairman of a committee in Grand Bank. They met the Mayor. I have al~ the respect in the world for the Mayor of Grand Bank, he is a personal friend of mine, but that shows your concern for the fishery. Also, Mr. Chairman, while visiting the districts of Grand Bank and Burin-Placentia West, in Burin-Placentia West there were donations made by the han. members to committees,but in the district of Grand Bank there were no donations. And I say to you that that was outright discrimination. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CHAIRMAN (AYLWARD) : Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. MATTHEWS: In concluding, Mr~ Chairman, I would just like to publicly in this House support this position, a position that will see my district live, people work and keep three processing plants open. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. CHAIRMAN: MR.. HISCOCX: 1759 Hear, hear! The hon. member for Eagle River. Thank you, Mr • . chairman.

March 29, 1983 Tape No. 789 IB-2 MR. HISCOCK: The reorganization of the fishery has finally been announced today by the Premier of the Province,and I will say to the government