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October 21, 2014

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2014-Oct-21 (PDF)

L016 - Tue 21 Oct 2014 / Mar 21 oct 2014

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 21 October 2014 Mardi 21 octobre 2014

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de lutte contre la fraude et de réduction des taux d’assurance-automobile

Introduction of Visitors

Legislative pages

Oral Questions

Government fiscal policies

Air ambulance service

Privatization of public assets

Privatization of public assets

Power plants

Pan Am Games

Infectious disease control

Government accountability

Government accountability

Public libraries

Victims of crime

Distracted driving

Poverty

Correctional services

Provincial parks

Climate change

Correction of record

Visitor

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Family doctors

Municipal finances

Miracle League of Ottawa / Ligue Miracle d’Ottawa

Troy Adams

Northern Ontario

Student achievement

Impact Centre

Events in Kitchener Centre

Streetsville Village Square

Introduction of Bills

Highway Incident Management Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la gestion des incidents de la route

Transportation Statute Law Amendment Act (Making Ontario’s Roads Safer), 2014 / Loi de 2014 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne le transport (accroître la sécurité routière en Ontario)

Bob Mackie Act, 2014 / Loi Bob Mackie de 2014

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Ontario Agriculture Week

Ontario Public Library Week

Climate change

Ontario Agriculture Week

Climate change

Ontario Public Library Week

Ontario Agriculture Week

Climate change

Ontario Public Library Week

Petitions

Hydro rates

Alzheimer’s disease

Health care

Lyme disease

Correctional facilities

Childhood apraxia of speech

Services for the developmentally disabled

Workplace safety

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan

Hospice funding

Workplace safety

Health care

Orders of the Day

Stronger Workplaces for a Stronger Economy Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur l’amélioration du lieu de travail au service d’une économie plus forte

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de lutte contre la fraude et de réduction des taux d’assurance-automobile

Mr. Bradley, on behalf of Mr. Sousa, moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 15,

An Act to amend various statutes in the interest of reducing insurance fraud, enhancing tow and storage service and providing for other matters regarding vehicles and highways / Projet de loi 15, Loi visant à modifier diverses lois dans le but de réduire la fraude à l’assurance, d’améliorer les services de remorquage et d’entreposage et de traiter d’autres questions touchant aux véhicules et aux voies publiques.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Deputy government House leader.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Finance, the member from York South–Weston, and the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Government and Consumer Services, the member for Newmarket–Aurora, and I will be leaving the lion’s share of the time for that. I’ll offer a few remarks at the beginning but, obviously, the parliamentary assistants, on both of these occasions and both these instances, are individuals who have developed an expertise in this field and will be speaking on behalf of the government.

We agreed, you will remember, to reduce auto insurance rates by 15% on average by August 2015, and we’re still on target to meet that particular goal. Since setting that goal last summer, we have seen rates stabilize and come down, on average, by about 6%. But of course, we believe that’s not enough. There’s more to be done, and we introduced legislation last spring that would work to achieve this plan. Unfortunately, the opposition forced an unnecessary election that froze our work, and that’s why today we’re here, working to pass this legislation again to further fight fraud, reduce costs and lower rates for Ontario drivers.

I must say, in my time in this House, the issue of auto insurance in general has come to the attention of the Legislature on many occasions. It’s usually when the premiums rise in a significant way that it gains the attention of the Legislature and ultimately, of course, the public, who will witness this happening to themselves and to others. That is why the government seized upon this as being a very significant issue early on, under the auspices, particularly, of the Minister of Finance, but we have two parliamentary assistants today who will look at it from different angles.

One of the things you recognize, Mr. Speaker—we have a different Speaker in the chair now, the member for Chatham and other areas in that area, Chatham–Kent and—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Essex.

Hon. James J. Bradley: —Essex, those three, is sitting in the chair in a very distinguished manner. I just wanted to let his constituents know that he was here and presiding at this particular point in time.

There is a saga to auto insurance in this province. I can recall, as I say, on many occasions—when new governments come in, they try to tackle these particular challenges, and have been somewhat successful over the years. There is a recognition that there’s a relationship between the costs incurred and the premiums paid. The question always is, how much of that is significant in terms of the premiums rising?

I remember in 1990 being in this chamber and, with much fanfare, the NDP government of the day was sworn in for government. I knew number one in their platform, or at least very high in their platform, was public auto insurance. So I waited for those five years to see whether, in fact, there would be public auto insurance introduced in the province, because it had been promised for years. They said, “Well, the New Democratic Party, what are they about?” They’re about public auto insurance.

But lo and behold, I think a very detailed analysis was done for the province of Ontario—because, remember, public auto insurance had been in place in other provinces. An analysis was done by the government of the day, who didn’t want to break a promise. They weren’t about breaking promises; they did not want to do it. But they took a very careful look at the circumstances that existed at that time and chose not to proceed with public auto insurance. That’s a decision any government can make at any particular point in time. I noticed in the last provincial election that the New Democratic Party did not promise public auto insurance.

I think we recognize that there’s a challenge for people out there, and the purpose of this legislation is to deal with that particular challenge, a lot of it related to fraud. There are some towing circumstances that people have encountered over the years. They say there could be—and I think they are right—a reduction in costs if there were changes made in that regard and others, but I don’t want to intrude too far into the speaking time of the two parliamentary assistants who are going to follow me at this time.

Suffice it to say, with some historical perspective, every government has tried to deal with this, and the circumstances change over the years; it’s not one circumstance facing everyone. I’m going to recall a bit a circumstance when I was Minister of the Environment in 1985. There was an insurance crisis at that time. There had been some significant court cases—some of them had not actually completed, but they were court cases that came forward that scared everybody, to be quite honest about that, including municipalities.

Even getting insurance was becoming a problem because the reinsurance business, the insurance companies that insure insurance companies, were at that time quite worried about the circumstances that existed. And here I was, as Minister of the Environment, trying to proclaim what was called the spills bill.

Now, the spills bill was a bill which dealt with environmental spills. It really put the onus on the spiller, if you will, to clean up and look after the problem immediately. Some said that it was reverse onus, and I guess it was to a certain extent, so it was controversial. It had passed under a minority Parliament, the minority Parliament between 1977 and 1981—I must say, by the way, Mr. Speaker, a minority Parliament that in my view worked very well. Unlike the last minority Parliament that we had, I thought the one between 1977 and 1981 worked well. Let me tell you why that was.

Remember there was a minority Parliament between 1975 and 1977—very raucous, very disruptive; it worked enough, but there were a lot of challenges. People hadn’t had experience with a minority Parliament for a long time. Mr. Davis called an election to gain a majority. He fell short of gaining that majority, so we were in a minority Parliament again.

What happened on that occasion was that the government became much more responsive to the opposition, and the opposition became more responsible in terms of what it was doing. So I thought in that period of time—and I want to give Mr. Davis, who I know will be watching from his home in Brampton at this time or his office in Brampton, some considerable credit for the way—and Bob Welch, by the way, who was a House leader. I want to give them credit for the manner in which they operated the minority Parliament at that time.

I want to give credit as well to all the House leaders who worked together to make Parliament work. There were actually a lot of bills that were passed on that particular occasion. So that’s the context.

Now we are into a majority Parliament again. The people of Ontario have made a decision. We have a majority Parliament, and we’re now able to deal with a piece of legislation we just couldn’t get moving in a minority Parliament. In fact, in the last minority Parliament, it was hard to move any legislation through, which was unfortunate. Then we ended up with an election that I’m sure the member for Renfrew did not want, but there we were, in an election. His leader and others—the hawks, as we call them—had been calling for an election.

The New Democratic Party pulled the plug, and we were thrust into an election that I don’t think many people in the province wanted, but they did make a decision.

Now we’re before this House with a piece of legislation which I think will have—

Interjection.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Yes—a piece of legislation which I think will go a long way to meeting the challenges that we face in auto insurance.

Having said this, I now turn it over to the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Finance or the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Government and Consumer Services, whichever one gets up and you recognize.

Interjection.

Mr. Mike Colle: York South–Weston.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you. I would thank the minister for his history lesson.

I would now recognize the member from York South–Weston.

Mrs. Laura Albanese: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be sharing my time with the member from Newmarket–Aurora and also the member from Eglinton–Lawrence, who I believe would like to add something to the second reading of Bill 15.

I am very honoured to rise today for second reading of Bill 15, the Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014. This legislation proposes a number of much-needed measures to help protect Ontario drivers, tackle fraud and abuse, and reduce costs and uncertainty in Ontario’s auto insurance system. If passed, Bill 15 will build on the work done to date to stabilize and bring down auto insurance rates, including the substantial 2010 reforms that streamlined the system, gave consumers more choice in their auto insurance policies and cracked down on fraud and abuse.

There are more than nine million drivers in Ontario. Some of these drivers are still paying too much for auto insurance. I’m sure that, as members of this Legislature, we all hear that in our constituencies from time to time. Our government made a commitment to making auto insurance more affordable while keeping the system fair and reliable. Bill 15 would make good on that commitment and help bring down average rates for Ontario drivers.

In August 2013, we announced our Auto Insurance Cost and Rate Reduction Strategy. We’re targeting an average 15% reduction in auto insurance rates over two years. How are we working to achieve that target? A key element of our strategy is to bring down costs in the system and reduce uncertainty. Auto insurance rates are directly linked to claim costs. Every dollar paid out in auto insurance claims is funded by policyholders, so if we reduce the costs, we can help reduce the rates.

One significant cost driver in the auto insurance system is fraud. Recognizing this, in July 2011 the government formed the Auto Insurance Anti-Fraud Task Force based on a commitment made in the 2011 Ontario budget. The task force was created to bring together stakeholders and government to collaboratively review the issues and recommend some solutions.

In 2012, the task force issued its final report. It found that auto insurance fraud is indeed substantial and has a material impact on premiums. Research conducted on the task force’s behalf estimated that in 2010, costs related to auto insurance fraud amounted to between $770 million and $1.6 billion. So tackling fraud and working to reduce it has been an ongoing priority for our government.

The task force made 38 recommendations to combat auto insurance fraud. So far we have taken action to address more than half of these, and we’re committed to addressing the remaining recommendations over the coming months. Bill 15 contains important measures that would not only continue our crackdown on fraud, but would also address other critical issues in the auto insurance system to help reduce costs and uncertainty, and ultimately rates, for Ontario drivers.

Mr. Speaker, our cost and rate reduction strategy is working. From August 2013 to August 2014, auto insurance rates dropped by an average of over 6%. While we’re pleased with this reduction, we recognize that we still have a ways to go to reach our 15% target.

If passed, Bill 15 would help us get there. The measures being proposed by this legislation include transforming the auto insurance dispute resolution system to make it more efficient and effective, and discourage fraud and abuse. The legislation would propose consumer protection to towing and vehicle storage industries through measures that tackle questionable business practices, and provide authority to address vehicle storage and related issues identified by the anti-fraud task force.

In addition, the amendments proposed provide new enforcement tools, such as allowing inspectors to issue orders where violations are found. I believe that’s very important. Bill 15 would also modernize insurance agent and adjuster disciplinary hearings, which would protect consumers and build on past changes to enhance the regulator’s investigation and enforcement authority. As you can see, this proposed legislation is comprehensive in its approach to fighting fraud and abuse, improving consumer protection and strengthening Ontario’s auto insurance system.

The proposed Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014, is a combination of two pieces of legislation that died on the order paper when the 40th Parliament of Ontario was dissolved: the Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014, originally introduced on March 4, 2014, and the Roadside Assistance Protection Act, 2014, originally introduced on April 15, 2014. The measures included in these two bills are so vital to helping to protect Ontario drivers and fighting fraud in the auto insurance system that we simply had to reintroduce them.

I’d now like to provide some details about these measures and outline why it is important that Bill 15 has all of our support. Since 1990, mediation has been a mandatory first step for disputes between claimants and auto insurers over the entitlement to, or amount of, statutory accident benefits. The dispute resolution system, or DRS, as it’s also known, was intended to help drivers and insurers resolve disputes quickly so that injured drivers got the health treatments they needed to get better. This system was administered by the Financial Services Commission of Ontario, also known as FSCO.

However, in recent years, the system became overwhelmed and bogged down with applications. There are major backlogs that created uncertainty and elevated costs. On top of everything, injured drivers were waiting too long to get the benefits they needed.

We are proposing to change the DRS to help injured Ontario drivers settle disputes faster.

Last year, we appointed the Honourable J. Douglas Cunningham, a former Associate Chief Justice of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, to review the system and provide us with recommendations on how to make improvements. There was an extensive consultation process, which included input from 35 stakeholders, written submissions, in-person meetings, as well as an interim report.

The final report was delivered on February 18 and made 28 recommendations to transform the DRS so that it operates more efficiently and effectively, which would reduce consumer frustration, uncertainty and costs. Bill 15 is proposing to implement a number of these recommendations.

If passed, Bill 15 would create a new framework for the DRS by moving responsibility to an existing tribunal administered by the Ministry of the Attorney General, which would be the Licence Appeal Tribunal. The objective is to establish a more expedient, efficient and cost-effective system. The move would also remove adjudicative functions regarding statutory accident benefits from FSCO to prevent conflicts in its role as the regulator of insurance companies. This is an important step.

The resulting reduction in costs and uncertainty would lead to more long-term stability in claim costs, which would ultimately lower rates. More importantly, it would provide claimants with faster access to the benefits they require.

Drivers involved in traffic collisions or in need of roadside assistance should have the confidence that the tow truck driver helping them will do the work safely. If passed, Bill 15 would help us achieve this important goal. We’re proposing consumer protections to address the towing and vehicle storage industries, a key measure that was recommended by the Auto Insurance Anti-Fraud Task Force. The changes that we’re proposing would, if passed, help Ontario drivers make informed decisions when getting their vehicle towed or having it held in a storage facility.

Mr. Speaker, the proposed legislation and supporting regulations, in due course, would require tow and storage providers to get authorization from the consumer, or someone acting on behalf of the consumer, before charging for towing and storage services. Tow and storage providers would also be required to make their rates available publicly. They would also have to accept payments by credit card from consumers, and, before demanding or receiving payment, tow and storage providers would have to provide an invoice, including an itemized list of the services provided and the total cost.

Finally, in most cases, consumers would have access to their towed vehicle to remove any property contained in the vehicle. These proposed changes were developed through extensive consultations with stakeholders held earlier this year.

In January and February, 2014, representatives from the municipal, policing, towing, insurance, vehicle financing and leasing, and other sectors met to consult on the oversight of the towing and storage industries. The group worked together to develop recommendations to government which we are now proposing in Bill 15.

But that’s not all, Mr. Speaker. We are also proposing to amend the Highway Traffic Act to include tow trucks in the province’s existing commercial vehicle operator’s registration system. The new legislation would allow us to set qualifications and standards governing the operation and the use of tow trucks, including driver certification and training requirements, and prescribe penalties to violators. This would help improve road safety through monitoring and enforcement, another important consumer protection measure.

Another way that we are helping to protect drivers is by proposing to provide authority to reduce the number of days a vehicle can be stored after an accident without giving notice to the owner and other persons where required. Regulations could also provide for the determination of fair value of storage where an amount has not been agreed upon.

Currently, when a vehicle has been damaged in an accident, it may be brought to a storage facility after the collision by someone other than the owner, or without the owner’s authority. Those who store vehicles after accidents can begin charging for storage services right away, even though the owner of the vehicle may be unaware of where their car is located and that it is accumulating charges every day. Storers can hold a vehicle and accumulate storage charges for up to 60 days without giving any notice and then still claim a lien for the storage costs.

The Auto Insurance Anti-Fraud Task Force noted that storers can maximize their lien by delaying notice until the 60-day period has almost expired, and the vehicle’s owner or insurer may be liable for these inflated costs. So reducing the 60-day time period would cut down on abusive practices by some storers and would remove the associated costs from the auto insurance system. If passed, the proposed amendments would help address another of the task force’s recommendations. I believe this is a very important one that really needs to be passed as quickly as possible.

Another measure proposed by Bill 15 is to modernize the system for insurance agent and adjuster disciplinary hearings. Streamlining the disciplinary process would support quicker regulatory action against agents and adjusters who are engaging in cost-generating deceptive and often fraudulent actions. For example, one insurance agent who had their licence revoked was caught using insurance company funds to cover their own business expenses. This is unacceptable.

If passed, FSCO would have the authority to revoke or immediately suspend the licences of agents and adjusters who act improperly and put the public at risk. Bill 15 would also align the process for these disciplinary hearings with modern principles of procedural fairness, including replacing the 90-year-old advisory board system with the existing Financial Services Tribunal. If passed, these amendments would help combat fraud and protect consumers by building on previous changes Ontario has made to expand and modernize FSCO’s investigation and enforcement authority, particularly in the area of fraud prevention.

These are much-needed measures that would help protect Ontario consumers.

Because auto insurance fraud is so prevalent and costly, we’re tackling it from many sides. In addition to the measures being proposed in Bill 15, our government has committed to establishing a serious fraud unit whose mandate will include addressing auto insurance fraud. Automobile insurance fraud is part of a wider issue of white-collar crime that costs Ontario citizens, companies and financial institutions hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

A special unit with a mandate to tackle serious fraud, including auto insurance fraud, will support the key principle established by the Auto Insurance Anti-Fraud Task Force that fraudsters should be vigorously pursued and prosecuted where warranted.

Bill 15 also proposes a long-overdue measure that will help modernize the auto insurance system. If passed, this legislation would amend the Insurance Act to align the prejudgment interest rate for non-pecuniary loss, also called pain and suffering damages, for individuals injured in a motor vehicle collision to reflect market conditions. The current prejudgment interest rate on damages for non-pecuniary loss in a personal injury action is set at 5% per year. Meanwhile, the prejudgment interest rate for most other damages is based on Bank of Canada interest rates and calculated quarterly.

Currently this rate is 1.3% per year. The 5%-per-year prejudgment interest rate for damages for non-pecuniary loss in a personal injury action increases the cost of bodily injury claims in the auto insurance system, which drives up costs for all consumers. This rate has not been adjusted since 1990. Linking this rate to current market conditions would help reduce the cost of bodily injury claims in the auto insurance system while still ensuring fairness to consumers.

In conclusion, as I have outlined, Bill 15 would bring much-needed changes to Ontario’s auto insurance system. It is the next step in our commitment to keeping the system fair and affordable for Ontario drivers. That is why I ask for the support of the House in passing this act.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I’d like to thank the member for York South–Weston for her contribution to debate.

I now recognize the member from Newmarket–Aurora.

Mr. Chris Ballard: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The deputy government House leader reminded me of the early days when the NDP were elected. I was the executive director of the Consumers’ Association of Canada here in Ontario, with 60,000 members. Auto insurance was always top of mind for us because we heard consistently from our members and from others just how important it was to them. So he takes me back a few years.

It’s a great privilege then for me to rise in the House today to tell you about the steps our government is proposing to address concerns in the towing and vehicle storage industry for the over nine million drivers in this province.

The Ministry of Government and Consumer Services has been working closely with our colleagues in two other ministries—the Ministry of Finance, under the leadership of Minister Sousa, and the Ministry of Transportation, under the leadership of Minister Del Duca—to develop proposed changes to the laws currently governing these industries, which are before you today.

Proposing strong consumer protection and public safety measures specific to the towing and vehicle storage industries is an important initiative that will help the people of Ontario in three critical ways. If these legislative changes are passed, they will help strengthen consumer protection, improve road user safety and reduce automobile insurance fraud.

Most of the tow truck and vehicle storage operators in Ontario provide top-notch service to their customers and contribute to keeping our roads free and clear by removing vehicles, including those involved in collisions, quickly, efficiently and safely. However, some towing and storage operators simply do not meet the standards expected of them. Serious concerns have been raised about some operators in the industry by consumers and by the Insurance Bureau of Canada, among others. We know, for example, that some tow truck drivers charge exorbitant rates, leaving vulnerable accident victims shocked and distressed.

We know, for example, and many of us have heard stories of people going to pick up vehicles from storage lots, only to find they’ve been asked to pay unexpectedly large amounts of money before their vehicles are released.

It’s worth noting that from a road safety perspective, tow truck drivers also have very high collision rates, caused in part by aggressive driving when they try to get to a collision scene first. According to the Ontario road safety report, tow trucks in Ontario had a 19.7% collision rate in 2010. That’s compared to 1.1% for other commercial vehicles and 3.3% for private passenger vehicles. Drivers involved in traffic collisions or in need of roadside assistance should have the confidence that the tow truck driver helping them will do their work safely and fairly. If passed, Bill 15 would help us achieve this important goal.

We’re proposing consumer protection to address the towing and vehicle storage industries, which is in keeping with recommendations of the Auto Insurance Anti-Fraud Task Force and this ministry’s towing and storage advisory group. The changes we’re proposing would, if passed, help Ontario drivers make informed decisions when getting their vehicle towed or having it held in a storage facility. The proposed legislation and supporting regulations would require tow and storage providers to get authorization from the consumer or someone acting on behalf of the consumer before charging for towing and storage services.

Tow and storage providers would also be required to make their rates available publicly. They would also have to accept alternative forms of payment to cash, such as by credit card or debit card, from consumers, and before demanding or receiving payment, tow and storage providers would have to provide an invoice, including an itemized list of the services provided and the total cost. Finally, consumers would generally have access to their towed vehicle to remove any personal property contained in the vehicle.

These proposed changes were developed through extensive consultation with stakeholders held earlier this year. In January and February, 2014, representatives from the municipal, policing, towing, vehicle finance and leasing, insurance, and other sectors met to consult on the oversight of the towing and storage industries. The group worked collaboratively to develop recommendations to government, which we’re now proposing in Bill 15, but that’s not all. We’re also proposing to amend the Highway Traffic Act to include tow trucks in the province’s existing commercial vehicle operator’s registration system.

The new legislation would allow us to set qualifications and standards governing the operation and use of tow trucks, such as driver certification and training recommendations. This would help improve road safety through monitoring and enforcement, another important consumer protection measure.

Another way we’re helping to protect drivers is by proposing to provide authority to reduce the number of days a vehicle can be stored after an accident without giving notice to the owner and other persons where required. Regulations can also provide for the determination of fair value of storage where an amount has not been agreed to.

Currently, when a vehicle has been damaged in an accident, for example, it may be brought to a storage facility after the collision by someone other than the owner or without the owner’s authority. Those who store vehicles can begin charging for storage service right away, even though the owner of the vehicle may be unaware of where their car is located and that it’s accumulating charges every day.

Storers can hold a vehicle and accumulate storage charges for up to 60 days without giving any notice, and then still claim a lien for the storage costs. The Auto Insurance Anti-Fraud Task Force noted that storers can maximize their lien by delaying notice until the 60-day period has almost expired and the vehicle’s owner or insurer may be liable for inflated costs. Reducing the 60-day time period would cut down on abusive practices by some storers and would remove some of the associated costs from the auto insurance system. If passed, Bill 15 would extend invaluable protection to those whose automobiles are towed and stored.

Because auto insurance fraud is so prevalent and costly, we’re tackling it from many sides, as the member who spoke before me outlined. In Ontario, we want drivers involved in traffic collisions or in need of roadside assistance to have the confidence that the tow truck driver helping them is qualified and will do the work safely and fairly, and we’re committed to working with the towing and vehicle storage industries in Ontario to help make that happen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The rest of my time, I will allow my colleague to carry on.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I’d like to thank the member from Newmarket–Aurora. We’ll continue debate with the member from Eglinton–Lawrence.

Mr. Mike Colle: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and welcome back. I’m sure it was a wonderful summer in Chatham, with all the festivals you were going to, and I’m sure there are fall festivals going on now in Chatham-Kent.

I just want to follow up with my colleagues, the minister—Mr. Bradley from St. Catharines—the member from York South–Weston and the member from Barrie, on their comments on this very important issue of auto insurance. Mr. Speaker, as you know, auto insurance is really a necessity of life for all Ontarians. We all have to have an automobile, a safe automobile, and we all have to have some insurance because of the possibility of something occurring when you’re driving your car, so we don’t have much choice. It’s not a matter of choice, it’s a matter of prerogative; we have to have our vehicles and we have to have auto insurance.

I have been involved over the years with this interesting topic. I go back quite a number of years with auto insurance. Over the years, I’ve learned a lot by talking to a lot of the people on the ground, whether they be insurance brokers, whether they be auto body repair shop operators, tow truck drivers, insurance agents, people who are in the medical side of insurance or people in our government here, experts like Phil Howell, who is the director of the Financial Services Commission of Ontario, FSCO. There’s a lot that you learn.

The thing I learned most is that this is a most complex series of issues. Sometimes we do more harm than good when we think there’s a quick fix or a silver bullet: “Reduce my rates and I don’t care about anything else.” But as you know, the consequence sometimes is that you may not get the coverage you need if you happen to be in an accident. You may not get the repair to your vehicle or the compensation you may require if, God forbid, something happens to you or one of your loved ones in an accident.

That’s why it’s not just a matter of, “Just lower my rates and I don’t care what the consequences are.” There are consequences with everything you do in this industry. It is extremely complex because it’s not just about the insurance companies. It’s not just about the insurance brokers or the government at FSCO. The insurance industries, as I call them, are made up of many component parts.

Insurance in Ontario involves the tow truck industry. Those are the vehicles that tow people on a regular basis who have been in an accident. It involves the legal community—the paralegals who are expert in certain areas of law and who are very involved in auto insurance. Then, the lawyers. There are all kinds of lawyers involved in the insurance industry. If you look at the ads on TV—the slip-and-fall lawyers.

They’re advertising like crazy: “If you get in an accident, call us.” If you go to some parts of Ontario, you see big billboards: “If you get in an accident, call us.” In many cases, they do some good work, but in many cases, there are people, sometimes, in the past, who have taken advantage of people in car accidents.

I spent some time at the TTC, and on a regular basis the TTC deals with fraudulent insurance claims—almost on a daily basis. I know that my fellow members from Scarborough remember this. There was a bus full of people—I think it was on Lawrence Avenue in Scarborough, on a Sunday night, which is quite unusual. You don’t usually see a bus full of people in Scarborough on Lawrence Avenue. Somehow this bus full of people rear-ended a truck in front of them—Sunday night at about 8 o’clock.

Everybody on the bus sued the TTC. I remember the TTC lawyer at the time—an excellent lawyer. He decided to challenge this, because he said, “It’s quite unusual to have a bus full of people all suing us for whiplash on a Sunday night in Scarborough.” In their investigation, they found that this was a staged accident. The guy driving the truck in front of the bus stopped abruptly so that the bus ran into the rear of the truck. The driver of the truck was being paid off by some fraud artists. Everybody on the bus who sued the TTC for whiplash got 500 bucks from the person who set up the staged accident.

But this took the TTC about five years of legal manoeuvring and legal costs to deal with this one staged accident.

I use this as an example of the type of thing you’re dealing with with insurance and vehicle accidents as to what could happen. And the repercussions? People say, “It’s just the TTC; they can pay. It’s just the insurance company; they can pay.” But as you know, we all pay. This type of organized fraud forces all of our premiums to go up. Sure, the insurance company will pass it on to us in higher premiums and they’ll pass it onto our companies and insurers etc. So everybody pays for these fraud artists. There isn’t some nameless insurance company that pays for all this; we pay through our premiums.

There are the people in the auto body repair industry—it’s a huge industry in Ontario: people who repair cars and trucks. They’re involved in insurance. It’s a multi-million dollar industry that employs thousands of people. They’re in the insurance business.

Then there’s the whole massage industry. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but there are all kinds of people employed in massaging people who get into accidents. There are some very professional massage therapists; there are some that are not professional. At one time, there were people from organized crime who were buying these massage spas treating people in automobile accidents. They would drive you to the massage spa in their limos. They had some interesting people doing massages on you. This was all paid by the insurance company and run by organized crime, with a small O.

Then you have the physiotherapists. Thousands of physiotherapists are involved in treating people who are victims of automobile accidents. The majority of them are very legitimate, excellent, well-trained, serious people, but then there are other people who are dubious physiotherapists who don’t really have their licences, and they operate these so-called physiotherapy offices.

The medical community: There are many physicians who are involved in the insurance industry. They do medical assessments of people who are victims of accidents. What happens is, doctors do assessments. Then other doctors for the insurance companies do assessments. Then doctors for the accident victims do assessments. So they might do 10 assessments for one minor car accident. There are many medical doctors involved in the insurance industry.

Lawyers, as I said: There are thousands of lawyers involved in the insurance industry. There are also the insurance brokers, who are people that represent individuals who take out insurance from an insurance company. They are your representatives. When you want to buy insurance or you have an accident, they act as your advocate.

There’s another part of insurance where you don’t need a broker. They’re called direct insurers. You just deal with the company directly. You don’t have an agent or a broker; you deal directly. That’s another complex part of insurance: the direct insurers, as opposed to the ones who work with brokers.

These are multiple layers of industries that employ tens of thousands of people in this thing called auto insurance. When you talk about auto insurance, it is not just about dealing with an insurance company and how they operate, or just dealing with the legal system, or not just dealing with the Financial Services Commission of Ontario. There are a dozen industries within the insurance industry. So when this government has tried to basically manage and improve this industry and make it fairer, more transparent, it is not an easy task.

As the member from Barrie said, just dealing with the tow truck industry itself is very, very complex. The majority of tow truck operators are very legitimate people, experienced truckers. They have good track records. But then there are the other so-called tow truck operators. They will show up at an accident. As soon as the accident occurs—bang—they’re there on the spot. They say, “Don’t say anything. Don’t do anything. We’ll take your car to fix it. We’ve got a lawyer for you. We’ve got a doctor for you. We’ve got an insurance company for you.”

The tow truck operator is the first entry point for insurance. They show up on the scene. A poor person is traumatized by the accident, so this tow truck driver becomes their advocate on the scene. Away goes their vehicle. In some cases, that vehicle may never be seen again, because once you give away that vehicle, they can keep it for 60 days.

In fact, here’s an example. I know that in my own community, there is an auto body repair shop owned by this guy named Rocky. Across the street is a Mazda dealer, right on Dufferin. There’s a Mazda dealer and Rocky’s auto body repair shop.

A customer comes in to Rocky and says, “I just got in an accident, and my new car is across the street at the Mazda dealer.” Rocky phones up the Mazda dealer and says, “Listen, I’ve got the customer here. He’s the owner of that car. He wants me to repair the car.”

The dealer said to him, or somebody in the dealership said, “Well, if you want the car, it will cost you 2,000 bucks.” Rocky said, “Two thousand bucks?” “Yeah, there’s an administration fee. Two thousand bucks.”

The car was driveable, Rocky said. You could just bring the car across the street from the dealership to Rocky’s and have it repaired. “No, we won’t release the car.” But the owner called the dealer and said, “Release my car.” He said, “No, 2,000 bucks, because we brought the car here to our shop. We had to do all this work to drive it here and drop it off. We had to do all this paperwork. Two thousand bucks or you don’t get the car.” Then the guy said, “Well, it doesn’t matter. The insurance company will pay for this.”

So in order to get the car over to the auto body repair shop of choice, which was the owner of the vehicle’s choice, they had to pay $2,000 to the guy across the street to release the car, to take the ransom. That’s what it is, it’s pure ransom.

Now, that’s one example, Mr. Speaker. This has been going on by the tens of millions of dollars across Ontario for years, where these vehicles have been taken from accident scenes, held to ransom and the owner can’t get it, your auto body repair shop can’t get it. So that’s why we are now trying to get rid of this hostage-taking of vehicles in accidents with this bill. That’s one aspect of trying to provide for rules for tow truck operators. It’s the Wild West out there. There are many good ones, but as I said, there are some that are just exploitive.

That’s why we need this kind of legislation to help ensure that these added layers of costs are removed from the system, because if we continue to have this kind of hostage-taking of vehicles, if we continue to have this attitude of “Well, the insurance company is paying for it”—it doesn’t matter whether somebody’s committing fraud, it doesn’t matter whether somebody is taking you to a physiotherapist in a limo, we have to get rid of this approach.

Now, it doesn’t mean that getting rid of all this fraud is the only answer and is going to be the magic solution to making auto insurance fair in Ontario. My main point is that there are many other aspects to it, because I guess four and a half million drivers—maybe I’ve lost track of that, but there are just so many people driving, so many insurance companies, agents and all these other industries related. This bill attempts to come to grips with the reality of the auto insurance industry and to make it more transparent, more reasonable, an attempt to bring down rates, but it is not going to be the magic elixir.

There is a lot of work to be done, and it’s going to be a continuing amount of work with everybody in partnership.

As drivers, we have to understand that we have a responsibility and we can’t continue to have that attitude of “Well, the insurance is paying.” You know, whether you’re in the auto body repair business or a tow truck business or the legal profession or all these others—the paralegals, the massage industry—we have to say that we all have to do our part and government has to do their part to undertake this serious, comprehensive partnership in making auto insurance fair and available to everybody, because you cannot drive in Ontario without it.

I suspect, Mr. Speaker, because of higher rates, there are probably a lot of people driving without insurance. You talk to your police friends and they’ll tell you how many people they stop on a regular basis who don’t have insurance. You’re probably young enough to remember, Mr. Speaker, when we used to have that $25 thing we used to pay for liability back in the old days, so everybody got at least some kind of protection from being hit by someone without insurance. But nowadays, again, there are a lot of people driving without insurance that we have to do something about, too.

That’s why we need to make insurance affordable, fair and available in all parts of the province, because this problem of fraud, it’s sad to say—it isn’t everywhere in the province. It’s maybe not a serious issue in Chatham-Kent and the good people there and Merlin and those places; there are a lot of good people there. But it is a serious problem in the GTA. It seems to be, sad to say, where a lot of this untoward activity is taking place. Maybe it’s the critical mass of people that are here.

Then, Mr. Speaker, the other question I’m sure you’ve asked yourself is, with all these safety devices in cars—you know, we’ve got cars that can see from the inside lane the outside lane. They’ve got sensors on them. They’ve got the anti-lock brakes; they’ve got the anti-skid mechanisms; they’ve got cameras out the back, the side, the incredibly good tires and the bumpers. Yet despite all these safety devices, the cost of accidents is going up and up and up. People are claiming more injuries from accidents than ever before, despite all these safety devices. And remember, one of the most important things, Mr.

Speaker, as you well know, being an avid driver yourself, is the airbags. How many airbags? They’ve got 10, 20, 30 airbags in cars now. How can anybody get hurt with 10, 20, 30 airbags? But they are getting hurt and they are claiming injuries to their insurance company. So we’ve got all these safety features and yet the costs and the number of injuries are going up.

In Ontario, the cost of a claim compared to Alberta, for instance, is almost twice as much—just taking an approximation on that. So if you get in an accident, the same accident in Ontario costs twice as much to pay for that claim as it does in Alberta. Same cars, same good Canadians, yet our claims in Ontario are so expensive. Why? Why?

The other thing I wanted to mention, too, is that in insurance, at one time there used to be—well, there still is—a place for people who have many accidents. If you’ve got multiple accidents, you have to go into, like, insurance purgatory. I can’t remember the name of the place now, but—

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Facility.

Mr. Mike Colle: Facility, yes. I remember that at one time we had thousands of people in Facility, because what the insurance companies would do—if you were in a couple of accidents, they didn’t want to insure you, because the insurance companies want to pick the people that are lowest risk. So they would say to you, “We don’t want you. Go over to Facility.” But in Facility, instead of paying $5,000 a year or $2,000 a year—you might pay $10,000 a year for your insurance in Facility. Facility was filled with people, because the insurance companies didn’t want to cover all these people who were in accidents.

One good thing is that the number of people in Facility has been reduced dramatically. Where before there were thousands in Facility, now there’s hardly any. That’s one good thing, because all the insurance companies are supposed to take reasonable people as customers.

As they say, not all insurance companies are the same. Like I said at the beginning, you can go through a direct insurer where you just get on the phone with someone and they insure you directly with an insurance company, or you can go to your friendly local broker, so that person is your advocate. That’s why I always tell people—insurance is a very complicated thing but a very important thing. So if you’re going to get insurance for your kids, if you’re going to get insurance for your partner, it’s important to go and talk to someone who knows something about insurance and do some research.

Don’t just get the lowest price. You pay for what you get. Now, you may get the lowest price and a great deal—that’s very possible—but you can’t do it by just reading an ad on the back of a bus or something. You have to do your research as a consumer, and we as a government have to be doing more to protect consumers so they don’t get taken advantage of and we educate them.

The other thing I would mention that is coming and that I think is a very positive thing in insurance is telematics. This is going to be really helpful to young drivers and new drivers because, as you know, when you’re a new driver, it doesn’t matter whether you’re the 17-year-old just getting their licence or whether you’re a newcomer to Canada from Scotland or something: You pay a very high rate as a new driver because you have no Ontario experience.

What is happening technologically is, there are these telematics systems coming into place where there’s a little device in your vehicle that can record how fast you drive, what kind of stops—are you doing those drag-racing takeoffs and so forth? What time of day do you drive? I know that some parents of young teenagers really love this system of telematics because they want to know how their son or daughter is driving. You can say to them, “Well, son, I trust you with the car. Here’s the car. Go out there and don’t speed. Be very careful.

I don’t want you driving around midnight; just drive when you have to go to work.” You can have that recorded through this telematics system that’s available from companies now here in Ontario, all over North America and in England, where it started. That’s going to be a way of saying to young drivers, “Listen, the recording of your driving habits and patterns will be given to the insurance company on a regular basis. They can see if you are driving at a safe rate of speed, what time you’re driving etc., and because of that, we can give you a lower rate.”

If they notice in the digital reporting that you are speeding constantly, they give you a warning; in fact, they text you because it’s usually for young people. They text and say, “Johnny, in the last week, you’ve been going over the speed limit constantly. Johnny, if you don’t stop that, your rate is going to go up.” So they give them a warning. Then if Johnny keeps speeding, they will then see that rate go up, and dad will say, “Johnny, look, I’ve got to pay another 200 bucks a month for your insurance.” For young people, it can be very, very difficult and expensive to drive a vehicle and get insured.

So this telematics system that’s becoming more and more in vogue in Ontario, as it has been all over North America and England, will be a feature that will encourage young people and new drivers to drive safer and, at the same time, be able to be used as a tool to reduce rates. So that’s a good thing that’s coming through technology.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that all these aspects of insurance that I’ve talked about, I hope, reinforce the point that I made at the beginning: It is a very complex system. We need everybody working together to bring down rates, to make insurance more transparent, to make it more beneficial for the insured and to make it, again, more understandable.

This Bill 15 takes on a lot of hard, challenging issues. As I said, it is a bill that tries to solve some of these problems. We can’t expect everything that this bill purports to do will come out in perfection, but it is an extremely thoughtful, well-researched attempt at solving some of these problems. There have been a lot of stakeholder meetings. There’s been a lot of input. They had the task force that met. All partners in insurance have tried to participate in bringing about some needed remedies to make auto insurance better, more available and more transparent for all Ontarians who need to drive, need to have insurance.

Again, I encourage everyone to take a good look at this bill. I think it’s a bill that’s worth supporting, Mr. Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Comments and questions?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: This bill is a continuation of a century-long drama when it comes to auto insurance in Ontario. It seems that, from time to time, auto insurance becomes a trendy concern, and we come out with some legislation. This has resulted in lots of bureaucracy and lots of legislation piled on top of one another. It’s making the system too complicated and, in the end, very costly. In fact, we now have the highest auto insurance rates in our country.

It’s important to note that we’ve heard from stakeholders, including advocates for accident victims, who have concerns about this bill, and there are concerns around the aspects of the legislation related to the changes affecting the towing industry. I think it’s important to listen to those concerns to see if there are improvements we can make to this bill in committee and to address those.

This bill essentially merges Bills 171 and 189 from the previous Parliament. It addresses five priority areas relating to auto insurance in Ontario. The Liberals are touting this bill as part of their cost reduction strategy intended to help deliver 15% in savings to drivers, which we all know they have been failing at. Overall, the bill is a big step forward, but there are very few significant cost savings that will be achieved by this bill.

On the whole, it is supported by the insurance industry because they consider it a step in the right direction. So tomorrow, when we do our party’s leadoff hour-long discussion, we’ll get into the amendments that we specifically feel we should be making which will help make this bill a truer, better bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I’d like to thank the member from Nipissing. I now recognize the member from Nickel Belt.

M me France Gélinas: Thank you, Speaker. Our party is certainly committed to a 15% decrease in auto insurance, but the cheapest way to decrease it is to not have an accident in the first place.

I want to tell the story of Tom Price from my riding, who wrote to me last night. He says:

“I was involved with a very dangerous situation on Friday, October 17 … that you should be aware of. The situation happened on city road 4 that leads into the Fairbanks area and the Fairbanks park. The road out of the area is the only operational access to the area. Chicago Mine Road has been closed to … traffic most of the summer and remains closed due to a washed out bridge that has not been repaired. Any assistance or advice … would be … appreciated....”

Here’s his story. He says:

“Michael Vagnini and I spent some time this morning in an area of flooding on Fairbanks Lake Road”—that’s regional road 4—“just north of Worthington where the road was flooded. The situation was life threatening for anyone in a vehicle smaller than a pickup truck and there were numerous tandem trucks with trailers passing through the area making it even more dangerous. Potholes in the road below the surface of the water were deep enough to cause my 4 wheel drive to hit the frame on two occasions and one trucker indicated that the front wheel of his tandem had dropped in a hole that reached the front axle.

A lady with a toddler passed through the area at high risk as did an elderly lady who came close to nose diving into the ditch while we were there. Fortunately neither vehicle hit the potholes that I had or … the trucker was talking about. Had either vehicle gone into the ditch the current was so rapid and the ditch so deep as to preclude any attempts at rescue and they would have perished.”

I don’t wish any harm about anybody, but when the status of our roads is so despicable, accidents are just a matter of time.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments? The member from—

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Scarborough–Rouge River.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you very much. Member?

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to just add a few comments, probably in the same line as those from my colleague from Eglinton–Lawrence. In the accident claim area, especially the medical benefits claim area, it has been a big problem. In the tow truck industry, it has been a big problem.

I just want to share with you that I was a municipal councillor elected to the amalgamated city in 1997. In 1998 we decided to tackle the tow truck industry in the city of Toronto. I will tell you that I got corralled by tow trucks on the highway. I got threatened. It is a goon industry, if I can call it that way. The reason I think it is that way is because a lot of these tow trucks are licensed by municipalities. No two municipalities have the same set of rules.

I think the government is going in the right direction to try and bring it all under one roof. It’s the same with the medical claims business—to try to centralize it and screen it so that the fraud will stop, because I know tow trucks operate with body shops; body shops operate with the physiotherapy place; they operate with the chiropractor. In my own riding, and my colleague from Scarborough–Agincourt’s, we probably pay 20% more in insurance because our area has been hit with a lot of these claims.

I support this bill; I think we should move it forward, but I want to say one warning to all of us: This industry is so big and there are so many small issues all over the place that this bill is not going to be the be-all and end-all. We’re going to have to keep looking at this industry. Some of us may have to get foot soldiers out on the front lines to actually understand the fraudsters. Until you understand the fraudsters, you cannot close the loopholes.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I’d like to thank the member from Scarborough–Rouge River. Further comments and questions?

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I just want to get a couple of quick points in regarding Bill 15, the Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act. As we know—and the member from Nipissing explained this already—this is a bill from a past Legislature and a past Parliament, brought together to be reintroduced. I just wanted to get on the record that when this bill gets to committee, I urge the government to listen to the stakeholders, to strengthen this bill.

We’ve heard several concerns from stakeholders, including advocates for accident victims, and of course to concerns relating to the changes affecting the tow truck industry. I would urge the government to listen at committee to the public and stakeholder input on Bill 15 so we can strengthen this bill and make it more effective for the province.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Response from the minister of—

Hon. James J. Bradley: Chair of Cabinet.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you. The Chair of Cabinet, Minister without Portfolio and member from St. Catharines.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Thank you very much. The initial discussion has been very good. The government has laid out why it has come forward with some of these responses to a problem that has been out there for years. I think the member for Nipissing mentioned, for instance, that this is something that comes up time and again with each government. We try to find new solutions to it. This bill provides some of those solutions, we believe, that go a long way to, first of all, eliminating fraud and other activities that drive up the rates, but second, it will have the effect of bringing premium increases—the rates that people have to pay for insurance—down.

We should recognize that we always have to keep looking at how things evolve. I would suspect that after the speech by the member for Scarborough–Rouge River he would be getting a mirror out and looking under his car before he starts it up because of his comments about one of the industries out there. But it is time that this was tackled. If you had asked the successive OPP commissioners, for instance—they have been urging governments to tackle the whole area of towing and what is happening out there. There are some good companies doing a good job out there, working hard and trying to serve people appropriately. There are others in the business who would not fit that particular category.

I appreciated the comments that came from the opposition and from the government related to this particular piece of legislation. We are looking forward to the evolution of it, as we debate it in the House—each of the opposition parties and more government speakers. Aa always, going to committee is very valuable, hearing from those who will be impacted by it, and ultimately coming forward with a piece of legislation that all of us in this House believe would meet many of the challenges we face now in the auto insurance industry.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I’d like to thank the minister and I’d like to thank all those participating in the debate this morning.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): It is now time for us to recess. The House will recess until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport.

Hon. Michael Chan: I would like to introduce Robert Davidson, president and founder of the Canadian Pulmonary Fibrosis Foundation. He is joined by his colleagues Barbara Barr, Michael Jarvis, Henri Lowi and Jacqui Bowick. It’s also my pleasure to sponsor their reception this afternoon in the legislative dining room from 5:30 to 7:30 and to invite all members to attend.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I apologize to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. I changed your portfolio for you.

The member from Oxford.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: We have with us in the Speaker’s gallery a group of teachers, here for the second annual Teacher’s Forum. With them is a great teacher from Oxford county, Timothy Davis, and I’d like to welcome him to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: On behalf of the member from Algoma–Manitoulin and on behalf of page Faith Emiry, I’d like to bring notice to the House that Faith’s cousin, former page Owen Ricker, from last year’s fall session of 2013—he served in the second group—is in the public gallery this morning. Welcome back to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m delighted to introduce two friends in the Legislature: Sharleen Stewart, the president of SEIU, and Manny Carvalho, the secretary-treasurer of SEIU. Welcome.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I’d like to welcome the pharmacists from Pharmasave who are here today and having a reception tonight. In particular, I’d like to especially welcome a classmate of mine, Chris Davies, from Meaford, who is here visiting. Welcome, Chris.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: Mr. Speaker, please join me in welcoming several esteemed guests from Portugal to Queen’s Park today: Mr. Nelson Brito, mayor of the municipality of Aljustrel; Councillor Conceição Parreira; and the senior choir from the University of Aljustrel.

With them is Antonio Rocha from Casa do Alentejo, a dedicated community group from my riding of Davenport who are celebrating their 31st cultural week and anniversary.

Thank you all for being here today.

Ms. Christine Elliott: Although they have already been introduced, I would also like to welcome Mr. Robert Davidson and Mr. Michael Jarvis, with the idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis foundation, to Queen’s Park today.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: Certainly, another representative is here for the Teacher’s Forum, a fine high school teacher from Marathon High School in the fine riding of Thunder Bay–Superior North, Mr. Cameron Craig. Welcome, Cameron.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Northumberland–Quinte West?

Interjection: No, it’s Beaches–East York.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Beaches–East York.

Mr. Arthur Potts: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure also to introduce two exceptional teachers from Neil McNeil. I have with us today Chrissy Orr and Marco Tantardini, who are both constituents from a high school in my riding. Thank you. Welcome.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I want to recognize, from Widdifield high school in the city of North Bay, Mr. Mark Hopper, who teaches through the social studies program and who is also one heck of a volleyball coach.

Mr. Bill Walker: Although my honourable colleague Mr. Yurek introduced Chris Davies, he did not mention that he’s from the great riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound. So I too would like to welcome Chris Davies, a great community member, to the Legislature.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I’d like to recognize the mother of the page who’s here from my riding. The page’s name is Marie-Thérèse Campione. Her mother, Rosa Campione, is here today with us, with their friend Silvana Acardi. Welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, in keeping with my colleague from Davenport:

Remarks in Portuguese.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I think we’re all dying for the translation.

We have with us today in the Speaker’s gallery 21 teachers from across the province participating in the second annual Legislative Assembly of Ontario Teachers’ Forum. Please let me ask you to warmly welcome former colleagues of mine: the teachers. Thank you for being here.

Legislative pages

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I would ask the pages to assemble to be introduced.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Four of them want my job.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Don’t give me set-up lines like that.

Members, we have with us for the first session of the 41st Parliament:

Danielle Beaudoin from Timiskaming–Cochrane; Noah Bolton from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex; Katie Brown from Brampton–Springdale; Marie-Thérèse Campione from Vaughan; Faith Ebanks from York West; Faith Emiry from Algoma–Manitoulin; Darren Fernandes from Mississauga East–Cooksville; Renée Grenaway from Davenport; Colston Howell from Beaches–East York; Rachel Huang from Thornhill; Meher Kapoor from Newmarket–Aurora; Jagmeet Mangat from Bramalea–Gore–Malton; Adam McMahon from Parkdale–High Park; Félix Nunes from Essex; Callum Robertson from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry; Raveen Singh from Markham–Unionville; Josée Stephens from Northumberland–Quinte West; Gregory Van Boekel from Oxford; Lily-Anne Villemaire from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell; Ben Wahl from Kitchener–Waterloo; Morgan Walker from Brant; Erik Webb from Ottawa Centre; Jamie White from York–Simcoe; and Alex Wolf from Don Valley West.

Welcome to our pages. Thank you for being here.

Oral Questions

Government fiscal policies

Ms. Christine Elliott: My question is to the Premier. Premier, we’re once again hearing of a slowdown in Europe and the broader global economy. This global instability threatens the economy of Ontario, making it even more important that we have a fiscal plan. Well, Ontarians heard about the Premier’s plan this past weekend in Windsor. There were plans for an Ontario pension plan, for infrastructure, for taxing and for spending. But, Mr. Speaker, do you know what was not in the Premier’s plan? A plan for balancing the budget.

So my question is, when will the Premier finally decide to make balancing the budget a priority for this government?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, the party opposite continues on a path of talking down Ontario, of not believing in Ontario’s future, of not understanding that we have to do all of the above.

We have to make the investments that are going to allow our economy to thrive. That means investment in people’s talent and skills. It means investments in infrastructure. It means partnering with business and, yes, it means making sure that people have retirement security.

At the same time, we have a plan to balance the books, to make sure that we eliminate the deficit by 2017-18. That’s why we have a President of the Treasury Board. That’s why we are making sure that we follow our plan, including optimizing our assets. The member opposite should pay close attention to the plan that we took to the people of Ontario.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to immediately remind members that when somebody’s answering, there is no heckling on this side; I’ll shorten the answer. And on this side I’ll shorten the question. I’m also going to start immediately talking to individual members. If they decide that they want to jump right in, I will, too.

Supplementary?

Ms. Christine Elliott: Whatever investments are being made, they are clearly not producing results. This government continues to set targets which are never being met. Look at the facts. With a debt of nearly $300 billion—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of Economic Development, come to order.

Ms. Christine Elliott: —the deficit approaching $12.5 billion, and a budget that actually increases spending—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of Agriculture, come to order.

Ms. Christine Elliott: —it’s hard to understand how this government intends to balance the budget by 2017-18. With the federal government about to balance their budget, Ontario’s deficit accounts for more than two thirds of all of the deficits of all of the provinces in Canada.

My question is simple: When will the budget deficit finally become a priority for this government?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The elimination of the deficit is absolutely a priority for us, but the member opposite neglects to mention that one of the ways that the federal government is balancing its books is on the backs of the people of Ontario. I don’t think that that is a rational or reasonable way to proceed.

Mr. Speaker, let’s look at the facts. Since 2009, Ontario has created over 514,000 new jobs, 24,700 net new jobs in September, and that’s an increase of 19,100 full-time jobs.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Glengarry, come to order.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Youth employment has increased by 12,600 jobs. Our recovery is on track and we are not going to eliminate the deficit on the backs of another level of government.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Christine Elliott: No one actually believes that old rhetoric about the federal government. The fact is they’re doing quite well and Ontario’s lagging behind most of the other provinces in Canada. The truth is this government does not have a realistic plan for balancing the budget.

Let’s take a look at what the Conference Board of Canada says: “Even if the government manages to achieve their ambitious spending control plan announced in the budget, the conference board projects that the province will fall about $2.4 billion short of reaching its balanced budget goal in 2017-18.” The facts are clear.

Mr. Speaker, how can Ontarians give any credibility to this government when it comes to balancing the budget and managing debt?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: In some ways it’s not surprising that the member opposite would be in favour of what the federal government is doing, including hitting Ontario to the tune of $641 million this year. When other provinces were confronting the same issues, they didn’t make that choice. So that’s what the federal government is doing.

The other thing is, Mr. Speaker, when that party was in office, they made it a habit of downloading services, downloading costs, onto the backs of the municipal level of government. We’re in the process of uploading those costs.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Are you finished?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The election that we all just went through was actually about whether investing in the economy, investing in the future of the province, was the way we wanted to go in this province, or whether cutting and slashing, which is what they brought to the people of Ontario—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, on June 12 the choice was made and we’re in—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question?

Air ambulance service

Ms. Christine Elliott: My second question is also to the Premier. Over the past two years, Premier, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts conducted its investigation into the Ornge air ambulance scandal. Prior to the election, the public accounts committee signed off on a report that summarized the work and findings of the committee over that two-year period. Unfortunately, the Legislature was dissolved before the report could be tabled.

Premier, tomorrow the Standing Committee on Public Accounts will meet for the first time since the election. Will you direct your members to allow that report to be tabled?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the government House leader will want to speak to the supplementary.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important that the committees get up and running. I think it’s very important that the committees be allowed to do their work. The reports that were not able to be released because the opposition decided that it was time for an election—we need to get on with that work, and the committees will do just that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Christine Elliott: I failed to hear a clear answer there.

On May 30, Ontarians learned that that Ornge air ambulance service had been charged with 17 offences under the Canada Labour Code. The offences cited in the 17 charges were committed under your Deputy Premier’s watch and under the watch of senior executives on the board at Ornge.

Premier, whether your minister accepts responsibility for failing in her oversight is one thing, but completely sidelining a report that could prevent future tragedies and mismanagement is unacceptable. Will you commit today, very clearly, to allow that report to be tabled, or will you keep this information secret from the people of Ontario in order to protect your own political interests?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to thank the member opposite for the question. When it comes to the secrecy of that report, I think a former member of their party unfortunately leaked that report anyway, at some point.

Speaker, as you know, the committees have been formed by this House. The committees are starting this week, are starting to commence their work, elect their Chairs and Vice-Chairs, and it will be up to the members of the committee to determine their work plan and to determine what—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. The member from Haldimand–Norfolk will withdraw.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Withdrawn.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Carry on, please.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you, Speaker. As I was saying, it’s up to the committee members to determine their work plan and determine the kind of steps they will be taking. If they choose to work on the report that the former Standing Committee on Public Accounts was doing and release that information, I leave it up to the committee members.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Christine Elliott: Mr. Speaker, I think it’s really important that Ontarians know that they cannot hide behind the structure of these committees, that the members of the committee—the Liberal members of the committee—can be directed to release that report. Clearly, we’re hearing that’s not going to happen, and it’s outrageous. We owe it to the front-line responders here, to the pilots, the paramedics and the dispatchers at Ornge who came forward. Most of all, we owe it to the people of Ontario who depend on our air ambulance service to be there when they need it. We need this report to be tabled and these recommendations to be adopted.

Finally, again, Premier, will you please direct the members of this committee to release this report, which is vital to the safety and the interests of the people of Ontario?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: When it comes to taking action on the issues around Ornge, I want to commend the former Minister of Health and Long-Term Care for her incredible work on that matter in the previous Parliament, when the issues came to light. She was forthright, she was forthcoming, she brought information forward, she took immediate action when it came to changing the governance structure at Ornge, and brought forward, in fact, a piece of legislation that would ensure that those types of issues do not take place.

In addition, Speaker, the government fully co-operated with the former Standing Committee on Public Accounts in making information available so the committee members could do their work. It will be up to the new committee members, as they assemble, to determine what next steps to take, and it will be up to them to determine the time frame around when and how they want to make that report available.

Privatization of public assets

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. What private companies have approached the government to buy up our shared public assets like our local hydro utilities?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let me just say that I am very appreciative, we are very appreciative, of the work that Ed Clark and his council have done. We said in our budget, and then in our platform when we ran in the election, that we were going to make sure that the assets that are owned by the people of Ontario were working at their full value so we could optimize the benefit to the people of Ontario and reinvest the money that would come from that optimization into the infrastructure and into the assets that we need in 2014 and going forward. So that is the advice that is coming forward from Mr. Clark.

I think it is only responsible and sensible to review the assets that are owned by the people of the province on a regular basis. That’s what we’re doing, Mr. Speaker. I think it’s actually irresponsible that the leader of the third party would not agree that that was a good thing to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, I’m going to try again. Can the Premier tell Ontarians exactly what Ontario, Canadian and foreign investors have approached her Liberal government about buying our shared public assets, like our hydro utilities?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Well, since the interim report has not even been completed yet and since we haven’t even responded fully to what Mr. Clark and his council are suggesting, no, I cannot do that. We have to make sure that we take responsible and practical steps forward. To pre-empt the process before the report is even finalized would, again, be an irresponsible action that the leader of the third party is proposing.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Since we know what Liberals are like, perhaps I should ask how much in profits the Premier is dangling in front of energy speculators like banks and investment firms when she’s trying to entice them to buy our shared public assets, like hydro utilities.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, what we are trying to do is we are trying to make sure that we make the investments today that are necessary for economic growth, that will benefit future generations. It seems to me that the leader of the third party ought to be—although she never has been—supportive of investments in transit, in roads and bridges across the province. I would have thought that those kinds of investments were the kinds of things the third party would be interested in.

I would have thought that the third party would have understood that, to make sure we have those investments available to us, that we invest in the future of the province is in the best interests of the economy not just of today, not just job creation today, which it absolutely does, but for the future so that Ontario can thrive.

Apparently, that kind of responsible, sensible path is not what the leader of the third party supports.

Privatization of public assets

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also for the Premier. Can the Premier tell Ontarians whether she has engaged private legal and investment firms to help her with privatizing and selling off our hydro utilities, and if so, who they may be?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Underpinning the questions that the leader of the third party is asking is an assumption that anyone in government who works with the private sector in any way is somehow tainted—that somehow, government and the private sector should never work together, even though the NDP signed contracts with private companies to generate power in the province, even though her own members are interested in extending those contracts, Mr. Speaker, and I have a quote that I will read shortly.

I don’t buy into the notion that, somehow, government cannot work with the private sector; I just don’t buy that. I believe that the practical way of governing is to work with all stakeholders to make sure that private, government, labour—we all work together in the best interests of the people of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, clearly it’s the Liberals who are tainted. You only need to look at Ornge and the gas plants scandal. That’s the problem the opposition has with the way this government deals with the private sector.

As the Premier knows, Ed Clark is still the CEO of TD Bank. So I want to ask: Will TD Bank be involved in the privatization or the purchase of our public assets, like our hydro utilities?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Speaker, let me just go back again to the point that I was making. Our commitment is to unlock the value of the assets that are owned by the people of Ontario. That’s what we said we were going to do in our budget, that’s what we said we were going to do in our plan and that’s what we’re doing.

The NDP is basically saying that we should not work in any way with the private sector, and yet when they were in government, they signed nine private power-generating contracts over a five-year span, totalling over 400 megawatts of power. They made that commitment.

Now, even her own MPPs don’t agree with her, as I said. The NDP MPP for Timiskaming–Cochrane has written to the Minister of Energy to encourage the OPA to renew the contract for a private power generator in his riding. So there are members in the NDP who are practical, there are members in the NDP who understand that working with—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: For months, Speaker, this Premier has been insisting that she isn’t privatizing anything. She is insisting that there isn’t a sell-off. But last Friday, Ed Clark made it clear that the plan is to privatize and sell off local hydro utilities. Instead of being run for the public good, for those utilities to be run in a way that makes life more affordable for everyday families and helps create jobs, they will instead be run to make maximum profits for speculators.

Why does the Premier think that privatized hydro is good for Ontario families and businesses?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The member for Timiskaming–Cochrane is sitting right beside the leader of the third party, Mr. Speaker. Maybe she should just turn to her left and ask him why he is encouraging the Minister of Energy to extend the private power contract that is in his riding.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: You should turn to your left. You should stop turning right. You sound like the Conservatives.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Timmins–James Bay will come to order. I think you knew that was coming.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: It must actually be very hard for the leader of the third party to ask these questions. She knows that we’re not selling off the assets. She knows perfectly well that that was one of the parameters as Ed Clark went into this review. She knows that we are keeping these assets in public hands, and yet she continues to ask questions to undermine any relationship that the government might have with the private sector as though somehow that’s not a good thing. She knows that her own government, when they were in office, had to take those practical—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Power plants

Mr. John Yakabuski: My question is to the Premier. Premier, last summer, I rose in this House and demanded that the justice committee be allowed to continue its work investigating the serious wrongdoing in your gas plant scandal. Summer has turned to fall and the fact remains that this scandal is ongoing and requires further investigation.

This is not about documents having been released to the committee. This is not about previous witnesses who have testified. This is about how the committee needs to hear from Laura Miller and Peter Faist, two people who have agreed to testify and are at the very centre of this criminal investigation.

Premier, it’s time to stop talking about openness and transparency. It is time to demonstrate it by allowing us to interview and depose Laura Miller and Peter Faist. Will you commit to that to this House today?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Again, I thank the member opposite for the question, and I think I’ll remind the member opposite that the Premier has been very transparent and accountable when it comes to issues around the work that the justice committee was doing. The Premier, since she became the leader, made sure that hundreds of thousands of documents were provided to the justice committee so the justice committee could do its work.

The justice committee has been meeting for about two and a half years. They have listened to about 90 witnesses. And during the last campaign, the Premier made it very clear that she wants the justice committee to complete its work by engaging in report writing so they can provide recommendations to the government around records management, around siting of large energy infrastructure. We look forward to the justice committee completing its work.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Back to the Premier. Premier, I’m disappointed that you would pass that off to the House leader. This is a serious matter. You realize that by refusing to do the right thing, it proves that your statements about transparency and openness are nothing but lip service. This is the same old Liberal Party that it has always been.

We need to ask Laura Miller and Peter Faist some serious questions about a serious criminal matter. What about the deleted emails, the destroyed documents and the unauthorized access to the Premier’s office? Premier, the people have the right to see this matter investigated fully. Laura Miller and Peter Faist have said they will testify before the committee. There is only one person standing in the way of the truth in this investigation, and, Premier, that is you.

I’m asking you once again: Live up to your rhetoric—one last chance—and let us finally get the answers about who is responsible for the gas plant scandal.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. I’m going to take a moment to remind members that we address each other either by our riding or title. I’ll be strict on that.

Government House leader.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, the Premier has been absolutely clear. She wants the justice committee to complete its work. During the campaign, the Premier frequently restated her position that it is time, after years of questioning, about 90 witnesses and looking at hundreds of thousands of documents, that the justice committee engage in report writing.

The justice committee will be resuming its work so that they can complete their report writing. Even the third party, Speaker, brought a motion in the committee asking that it’s time to engage in report writing. We’re very much looking forward to their work so the government can have the information in terms of recommendations around the siting of large infrastructure projects and document retention, and we’re looking forward to their work.

Pan Am Games

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question today is to the minister responsible for the Pan Am/Parapan Am Games.

Speaker, there have been so many unanswered questions around the cost of security for these games, and just this morning we’ve learned about a new RFP process that’s raising even more questions. Sponsorships for the games are now being directly tied to the RFP for security. What does a company’s sponsorship of the games have to do with them being awarded such significant contracts as providing games security?

Hon. Michael Coteau: I’d like to thank the member opposite for the question. I know that the government House leader would like to answer the second part.

Before I answer the question, I just want to say that Lonely Planet today announced Toronto and Ontario are in the top 10 destinations for 2015 because of the Pan Am Games. I think we should all be proud of that.

Mr. Speaker, we take our security very, very seriously here in the province of Ontario. We need to make sure, as we plan for these games, that our security ensures the security of all Ontarians and all visitors.

There are two different components of the security. There’s one held by the ISU, and there’s one also being held to support the safety and the protection of property during the games. There has been an RFP process put out by TO2015, and in that process, there are specifics that are being asked around the RFP process. I know the minister responsible for public safety will be able to answer that piece of the question.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Catherine Fife: Speaker, this new revelation actually leaves us very concerned about what the real criteria are for awarding contracts for these games. Security costs keep going up. This is a fact. It’s undeniable. Some people may be asking, “What are these sponsorship perks?” The method of sponsorship can be cash, an in-kind contribution or a marketing activation value. So people are asking—and these are good questions—whether a company’s sponsorship of the games bumps them up the list of bidders, even though it may have added to the cost in the long run.

Speaker, in the interest of being open and transparent, will the minister just release the full criteria of how these contracts are being awarded?

Hon. Michael Coteau: In fact, I’ll take the question. In the RFP process, as outlined by TO2015 in coordination with the ISU, which is made up of the provincial, federal and municipal partners, sponsorship is one of the criteria within the RFP. But this is quite common in all games—the Vancouver Olympics and the last Pan Am Games. I have to say that sponsorship is so important to these games. In fact, our sponsorships here in Ontario for the Pan Am Games are the largest sponsorships ever in the history of the games. It’s five times larger than what happened in Mexico at the last Pan Am Games.

These games are successful. They’re on time. We will make sure that people in Ontario are safe during these games.

Infectious disease control

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. As a public health nurse during the SARS outbreak in 2003, I know first-hand the importance of proper infection controls. I was the manager responsible for the day-to-day operation of the York region SARS clinic.

The Scarborough Hospital Birchmount campus is located in my riding of Scarborough–Agincourt. It was the first hospital in Ontario to encounter SARS. This hospital was considered the epicentre for SARS, and during the outbreak, more than 100 staff became ill with SARS. Hence, the residents in my riding of Scarborough–Agincourt are particularly interested in knowing our government’s plan to ensure the province’s readiness in dealing with Ebola.

Ontario needs to take action to ensure the province’s readiness to contain and treat any potential case of Ebola in the province. Measures need to be in place to protect the safety of all Ontarians, including the health care workers.

Speaker, through you to the minister: What is the government doing to ensure all Ontarians are protected and our health care system is prepared for Ebola?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Thank you, first of all, from one health care professional to another, for the question.

I want to start, in fact, by giving my sincere thanks to the thousands of front-line health care workers right across this province who not only do fantastic work every day but particularly when it comes to our protection against Ebola and the epidemic that’s occurring in another part of the world. I want to thank them for the work they do in making sure that Ontarians are safe and protected.

I’m happy to say as well that as a result of our front-line health care workers, particularly our nurses, coming forward last week, we introduced measures to further strengthen the protections that are in place in this province. I announced that we had designated 10 hospitals, two pediatric and eight for adults, across the province. As well, as of yesterday, we have the capacity in-province to test for Ebola. We’ll be doing that on a case-by-case basis.

We’ve introduced other measures which will guarantee what is in fact my top priority, and that is the safety and security of Ontarians.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Soo Wong: I’m very pleased to hear of the necessary actions taken by the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. I know the residents of my riding are assured that our province has a minister who listens and takes timely action for the safety of all Ontarians.

But day to day, we continue to hear of the tragedies in West Africa with the Ebola outbreak. The current Ebola outbreak, which began in West Africa in March 2014, is unprecedented. The World Health Organization declared Ebola a public health emergency of international concern on August 8, 2014.

I know many Ontarians, including those in my riding, are concerned about the rapid spread of the Ebola virus in West Africa. Speaker, through you to the minister: How can Ontario support the emergency response in West Africa?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Thank you again for the question. I want to say, on behalf of all Ontarians, just how grateful we are for the hard work, the dedication and the courage of our relief workers, our health care workers and our aid workers who are working in West Africa to put an end to this epidemic. Many of these health care workers, in fact, are coming from Ontario. The Premier and I had the privilege yesterday to meet, and discuss the epidemic in West Africa, with representatives from Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières as well as the Red Cross here in Canada, who have deployed a significant number of health care specialists to the region.

It’s a devastating situation, as we all know, but we were happy, on behalf of Ontarians, to announce yesterday—the Premier announced—a $3-million contribution from Ontario to not only focus on prevention here in the province and making sure that we’re prepared, but to be part of the solution there as well, to end this epidemic and this scourge.

Government accountability

Mr. Ted Arnott: My question is for the Premier. Will the Premier guarantee that the $224-million loan her government gave to the MaRS phase 2 office tower will be repaid in full?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

Hon. Brad Duguid: We’ve been very clear: The loan is fully secured on the value of the asset, and the asset is more than the amount we’ve invested. It’s a fairly simple answer.

I think it’s important at this time to start talking a little bit about the lack of support that we’ve seen from the PC Party for the MaRS vision. I think what they’ve done is indicated that when MaRS was having challenges, their position was to let that building rot in the ground.

I ask the member, in his supplementary will he commit to supporting the efforts we’ve made to help support MaRS, to ensure that phase 2 succeeds? Or is his party’s position, and was his party’s position, to let that project rot in the ground, allow those jobs and all that economic development potential in our bioscience sector to go out the window? Is that the position of your party?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Ted Arnott: It’s instructive that the Premier did not guarantee that the MaRS loan would be repaid. The Premier was elected on her promise to govern differently, to turn the page on Liberal scandals, to be open and transparent with this House and with the people of Ontario. However, when it comes to the MaRS money pit, they’ve been anything but open and transparent.

At the estimates committee last week, the minister responsible for MaRS was evasive and dodgy. He refused to release the business case for the MaRS loan and other relevant information related to the MaRS bailout, even though taxpayers are now paying almost half a million dollars a month—a tab that now stands at $3.6 million.

When will they keep their promise to be open and transparent and release the agreement with Alexandria Real Estate and the business case for the MaRS bailout?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I don’t know how much more clear we can be. We’ve said it a thousand times. The loan is repayable. It will be repaid. It’s fully secured, Mr. Speaker. Taxpayer dollars are well protected in this arrangement.

I think what’s causing concern in the bioscience sector is the lack of support of the party opposite, which has taken every opportunity to besmirch the reputation of MaRS, after MaRS has created tens of thousands of jobs in this province and attracted $3 billion of private sector investment to Ontario. The vision of Ernie Eves and Jim Flaherty has become a very important part of our economy. It’s really a shame that the party opposite shows so little respect for that vision.

Government accountability

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. On March 27, this Premier indicated to Ontarians that she would “open up the government completely.” Yesterday she repeated this promise saying, “We are committed to being open and transparent.” But the Premier failed to say whether she will allow the gas plant committee to get back to work to hear from additional witnesses before writing a final report.

Today the Premier can keep her promise to be open and transparent, or she can break her promise. Will the Premier do the right thing and allow the gas plant committee to resume its work and call any new witnesses who need to be heard?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you very much, Premier. The Premier cannot be clearer. She has been clear all throughout. She wanted to make sure that the committee had all the information available when she became the leader and the Premier. She provided hundreds of thousands of documents. She appeared before the committee—in fact, twice—to answer any questions that the committee may have had; not to mention that during the campaign, when asked repeatedly, the Premier was very clear that it’s time for the committee to write its report.

She was actually merely echoing what members of the third party themselves had been asking for. The member for Toronto–Danforth, on December 12, said in the committee, “I believe it’s time for us to get down to report writing. We’ve amassed a large amount of evidence, both oral and in electronic copy.”

We agree, Speaker: It is time for the committee to resume its work and write a report and give recommendations to the government.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Some Liberals, including the member for Trinity–Spadina, think there is a right time and a wrong time for openness and transparency. Clearly the Premier is one of them. But New Democrats disagree. We believe the right time for openness and transparency is all the time, every day, day in, day out, without fail and without excuse.

The government isn’t just preventing a committee from completing its work. The Liberals are also sitting on the Ornge report, which is printed and ready to be tabled.

I’m going to give the Premier another chance to keep her promise. Will the Premier commit to tabling the Ornge report, and if not, why not?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, I ask the member opposite the following question: Does he stand by his motion of April 29, where he moved that the Standing Committee on Justice Policy begin report writing in open session? Does he stand by their own motion that he put forward in the justice committee?

We have been extremely transparent. We want the committee to resume its work as soon as it can and start the work of report writing, as has been asked for by the third party. It’s the same with the Ornge committee report: It’s up to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. That’s why in July, right after the election, we worked so hard to make sure that we’ve got committees established: so that as soon as we come back in the fall, as we did starting yesterday, the committees can start their work and do the work of the people.

Public libraries

Mr. Joe Dickson: As a strong supporter of public libraries, I want to let the members of the House know that this week is Ontario Public Library Week. Ontario’s public libraries are among the best in the world, and they are popular hubs for community life. There are more than 1,100 libraries throughout Ontario, and they attract over 72 million people every year. Over five million Ontarians—that’s 40% of the population—have a library card.

Libraries open up the world to knowledge. They connect us to the information and resources we need to succeed in life, in school and in our jobs. In many communities, libraries ensure that recent immigrants to Canada are welcomed and have access to information and resources to help them adjust to life in a new country.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Sorry.

Minister.

Hon. Michael Coteau: I’d like to thank the distinguished member from Ajax–Pickering for the question.

Mr. Speaker, libraries hold a very special place in my heart, and I’m very proud to take on libraries as part of my portfolio. We know that libraries help children learn. They provide resources for students, small businesses and entrepreneurs, and they make an important contribution to education, literacy and lifelong learning for all people across this great province. That’s why we’re so proud as a government to invest $33 million in 2013-14 into our public and First Nation libraries here in the province of Ontario. In fact, since 2003, this government has invested almost half a billion dollars into our public libraries.

We also know that the Trillium Foundation has invested over half a million dollars into our public libraries this year. We’re very proud of the work our libraries do here in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Joe Dickson: Thank you, Minister, for letting us know about all the government support for libraries here in Ontario.

As we all know, we live in a digital world. Everything is moving online and into digital formats. Our libraries are doing a fantastic job at evolving with technology and bringing that technology to communities, including Ajax and Pickering.

In the 2014 budget, I was happy to hear that your ministry is supporting libraries in these efforts through the Ontario capacity fund to help boost digital services. I’m happy that our government is committed to making services in public libraries across the province even better.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Question?

Mr. Joe Dickson: Could the minister please tell the members of this House about the Ontario library fund that he announced yesterday? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You’re welcome.

Minister.

Hon. Michael Coteau: Yesterday, I was happy to announce the Ontario Libraries Capacity Fund at Parkdale public library. Through this new fund, our government is going to invest an additional $10 million into our public libraries here in Ontario over the next three years to support the following: improvements in high-speed Internet access throughout Ontario—we’re going to increase wireless access. We’re going to upgrade hardware and software in our libraries. It will go to staff development and collection development, will enhance integrated library services and also enhance our public library websites in Ontario.

This fund is a three-year fund. In the first year, we’ll focus on IT improvements. In the second and third years, libraries will be eligible for research and innovation funding.

Our government believes that access to online services is essential in today’s knowledge-based economy. I’m happy that we’re supporting these goals through this new fund.

Victims of crime

Mr. Bill Walker: My question is to the Attorney General. Minister, you ordered budget cuts to victim services across Ontario and by as much as 20% in my riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound. As a result, this regional group of 50 volunteers and only seven staff who cover 11,000 square kilometres day and night and who helped over 2,500 victims of crime last year will be left with a pittance of a budget, a budget so small it falls $60,000 short of the one they started with 16 years ago in 1998. This is a direct attack on public services.

Minister, will you reconsider your cuts to this critical service?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Thank you for the question. Yes, indeed we are modernizing our victim services program to provide enhanced support to victims of crime. Beginning in April 2015, this program will be delivered under a new program called victim crisis assistance. In addition to existing services, vulnerable victims will receive enhanced support, including comprehensive needs assessment. Service plans tailored to individual victim needs will help them navigate and access short- and longer-term support services.

So in order to make the program consistent across the province, comprehensive program standards, accountability measures and standardized training requirements for staff and volunteers will be developed. These changes build on our commitment to providing timely and effective services for victims of crime.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Bill Walker: Again to the Attorney General: Is “modernizing” a code word for downsizing, Minister? Your government is leaving behind victims of sexual assault and people living in violent conditions. I have serious concerns with the priorities of this minister and this government, and the House should too. You’re wasting millions of dollars to bail out empty offices in downtown Toronto known as MaRS while gutting millions in community-based services for victims of crime.

Minister, again, will you make this right and reinstate compensation and services for victims of crime?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: We are not reducing funding to any of these programs. Instead, current funding for the three programs is being redirected to a single program.

Yes, we have review now—we’re paying for the service that is being offered for the clients that this organization will serve. So there is a reorganization. There is a repurposing of the dollars, and the dollars are being redirected to a single program, as I said.

At the same time, we are implementing a more equitable and transparent funding model by aligning funding with service demands. That means each agency delivering the program will receive a base funding amount and a variable amount based on the number and type of victims served.

So to answer the member, we are providing more money to the northern communities and to the rural communities, so we are—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Distracted driving

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is to the Minister of Transportation. Earlier this year, Metrolinx proposed a plan to allow eight giant digital LED billboards on Metrolinx property along Highway 401. Last week, the Toronto Paramedic Association warned that this scheme would “place us all at greater risk of death and injury.”

Mr. Speaker, when a driver’s attention is focused on a billboard, it is not focused on the highway. Metrolinx should be in the business of safe travel, not making money from driver distraction. On a day when the Minister of Transportation is announcing legislation to stop distracted driving, will he listen to the paramedics and instruct Metrolinx to drop this dangerous and distracting billboard scheme?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I thank the member for Parkdale–High Park for this particular question. I’ve had the opportunity to review the letter that she referenced in the question from the Toronto Paramedic Association. Of course, Speaker, I take my responsibility to ensure that Ontario’s roads remain amongst the safest in North America—and they have consistently been ranked first or second in terms of road safety over the last 13 years—very, very seriously. It’s one of the foundational aspects of the mandate letter that I received from the Premier.

I do look forward to having to say a lot more a little bit later today about making sure that our roads and our highways remain safe. I am listening to all of the interested stakeholders, to the municipality, and of course I’m talking to Metrolinx regularly about this and a variety of issues.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Earlier this year, Metrolinx also spent buckets of money on several TV ads for transit projects that won’t even be operational for several months or even several years. These ads didn’t provide any useful information, and one TV spot for the Union-Pearson Express was so ridiculously self-congratulatory that Metrolinx had to pull it off YouTube out of embarrassment. Who knows how much money was wasted? Mr. Speaker, sometimes I can’t tell if Metrolinx is a transit planner or an advertising agency. If Metrolinx needs money, it doesn’t need billboards.

Will the Minister of Transportation tell the Mad Men of Metrolinx to get out of the billboard business and get back to the business of transit?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I appreciate the supplementary question from the member from Parkdale–High Park. I think it’s important for me to say as clearly as I possibly can that I have a great deal of faith in the tremendous work that has taken place and will continue to take place at Metrolinx. We have a very ambitious, exciting plan about moving Ontario forward. Of course, members like the member opposite would have heard us speak repeatedly about the importance of our Moving Ontario Forward plan.

Over the next 10 years we will be investing up to $15 billion in the greater Toronto and Hamilton area, specifically benefiting residents living in Parkdale–High Park, living in communities like mine in Vaughan, people living right across the greater Toronto and Hamilton area. Metrolinx is playing a very crucial role with respect to the planning and implementation of that plan.

I look forward, over the coming months, to be here in this place and elsewhere continuing on with the great work that we have at hand. I know that the people of the GTHA and people of all of Ontario expect us to deliver the positive results that they’ve given us the mandate to deliver.

Poverty

Mr. Han Dong: My question is to the Deputy Premier and minister responsible for the poverty reduction strategy. As of 2011, there were more than 1.5 million people living in poverty in Ontario. That’s not okay in a province as strong as ours. Poverty should be no one’s destiny. We must come together as a province to ensure that everyone has the opportunity for a better future. In order for all people in Ontario to reach their full potential, we need to make sure everyone has the supports that they need to succeed.

Last Friday, communities around the world observed the International Day for the Eradication of Poverty. The occasion gave us a chance to reflect on how far we’ve come as a province to improve the opportunity for vulnerable citizens.

Minister, what is Ontario doing to fight poverty and better support people who need our help?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Thank you to the member from Trinity–Spadina for the question and for recognizing International Day for the Eradication of Poverty.

Speaker, we’ve made steady progress since we introduced Ontario’s first poverty reduction strategy in 2008. According to the most recent data, 47,000 children and their families have been lifted out of poverty, and we’ve prevented tens of thousands of others from falling into poverty.

In 2003, a single mom with two kids, working full time at a minimum wage job, had an income of less than $20,000 a year. Today, as a result of our efforts that mom has an annual income of almost $35,000, a huge difference for that family.

But there’s more to do and that’s why we’ve introduced our second poverty reduction strategy, Realizing Our Potential.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Han Dong: Thank you to the Deputy Premier for that response.

Homelessness is often the most visible face of poverty in our community, particularly in the large cities like Toronto. Our people are our greatest resource as we compete in this increasingly tough global marketplace. That is why investments in housing and the supports that go with them are smart investments.

A Place to Call Home provides a stable foundation that helps people lift themselves out of poverty. When people have a home, they are better able to manage the challenges in their lives and to seek the education and training that they need to move forward for better opportunities and stable and rewarding employment.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Deputy Premier: How will the new poverty reduction strategy deal with the challenges of homelessness?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: As part of our new strategy we have set a long-term goal to end chronic homelessness in Ontario. Ending homelessness is not only the right thing to do, it’s the smart thing to do, because we know that investments in housing actually mean savings in our health care system and other parts of our social services because people are healthier and they’re more ready for employment and taking

part in their community.

Our strategy includes several commitments that will help us work toward that goal. We’re increasing the funding of the CHPI program, Community Homelessness Prevention Initiative, for a total of nearly $294 million a year. We’re adding an additional 1,000 supportive housing spaces for people with mental health and addiction challenges. We’re investing $50 million in a Local Poverty Reduction Fund to support local solutions to poverty. We’ve set ambitious goals, but we’re on our way to achieving them.

Correctional services

Mr. Jeff Yurek: My question is to the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Minister, a few weeks ago you made a major announcement in my riding concerning the overcrowding at Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre—overcrowding that this Liberal government has ignored for the past three years that has led to numerous deaths and daily violence at the facility.

Minister, your ministry’s track record is terrible when it comes to fixing the problems at EMDC. Your ministry closed rural jails which amplified the overcrowding conditions, failed on the implementation of the 12-point plan to fix the jail, and failed in providing correctional officers with the proper equipment to do their jobs. So, Minister, forgive me if I’m sounding a little skeptical on this announcement, but this is a very short time period for a new build. I am unable to find the numbers in this year’s budget for this build.

Minister, would you be able to share the budget for the project, where this money will come from and when the RFP will be released?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I thank the member opposite for the question and his work and advocacy on issues around the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre. As the member opposite mentioned, I had a great visit on October 8 to EMDC. I was joined by management—the hard-working correctional staff, both correctional officers and managers—along with labour leaders both locally and provincially. I was really struck by the professionalism of our correctional staff, both management and correctional officers, how hard they work and how dedicated they are to the well-being and safety of the community.

I spent about three and a half hours touring the facility and talking to many correctional officers and thanking them for the work they do every single day in keeping our community safe.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I’m sure the minister will answer the question after the supplementary.

Minister, I’ve drawn attention to these issues at the EMDC in this chamber for three years, yet your government has taken little action to correct these areas of concern. The violence and deaths continue.

Most recently I have written you requesting that the government utilize their assets to find a solution for EMDC. For example, the government could utilize the regional mental health buildings in St. Thomas and create a partnership with the Southwest Centre for Forensic Mental Health Care for shared services. Or the government could simply reopen the Bluewater Youth Centre in Goderich that your government recently closed.

Minister, have you completed a cost analysis on a new build compared to using the existing government assets?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I would thank the member for the supplementary. We’re very much focused on dealing with issues around overcrowding, and ensuring the health and safety of our correctional staff and the safety of the inmates. That’s why I want to give credit to my predecessor, the Attorney General. When she was the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services she put in place a 12-point action plan; 11 out of 12 of those action plan items have been fully implemented, but we’re not stopping there.

We are taking steps in making sure that we have issued a request for proposal for a regional intermittent centre which will allow for separating the intermittent inmates from those inmates who are spending their sentence in its entirety at the detention centre. It’s going to not only resolve the issue around overcapacity but it’s also going to help us in dealing with contraband issues.

Further, we are also rolling out the personal protective safety equipment for our correctional officers. Their health and safety is a number one priority for