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December 14, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Dec-14 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 14 December 2004 Mardi 14 décembre 2004

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

YORK CENTRAL HOSPITAL

ENERGY CONSERVATION

TOBACCO GROWERS

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

CHAMPIONNAT DE VOLLEYBALL /

VOLLEYBALL CHAMPIONSHIP

NATIONAL CHILD BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

VINNIE DIROLLO

MAGNETIC RESONANCE IMAGING

FISCAL ACCOUNTABILITY

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CITY OF OTTAWA

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA VILLE D'OTTAWA

MOTIONS

COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

COMMITTEE

SCHEDULE

REFERRAL OF BILL 110

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

WATER QUALITY

CITY OF OTTAWA

LANGUAGE SERVICES /

SERVICES LINGUISTIQUES D'OTTAWA

WATER QUALITY

CITY OF OTTAWA

LANGUAGE SERVICES /

SERVICES LINGUISTIQUES D'OTTAWA

WATER QUALITY

JOHN BROWN

J. EARL MCEWEN

ORAL QUESTIONS

HYDRO GENERATION

HOSPITAL FUNDING

TAXATION

AEROSPACE INDUSTRY

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES

GO TRANSIT

HYDRO GENERATION

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HIGHWAY 11

OHIP OFFICE

CONSERVATION

HYDRO GENERATION

BUS TRANSPORTATION

PETITIONS

HIGHWAY 400 RAMP

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

HOSPITAL FUNDING

PIT BULLS

AUTISM TREATMENT

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

HEALTH CARE

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

HOSPITAL FUNDING

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ORDER OF BUSINESS

PROFESSIONAL LEARNING PROGRAM

CANCELLATION ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 ANNULANT LE PROGRAMME

DE PERFECTIONNEMENT

PROFESSIONNEL

LIQUOR LICENCE

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES PERMIS D'ALCOOL

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

YORK CENTRAL HOSPITAL

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I rise today to remind the Minister of Health and the Minister of Finance of their promise during the past election

campaign to prioritize health care should they form a government. They were given that trust. They have now had the responsibility of governing for more than a year, and the promise to prioritize

health care rings hollow to my constituents in the community of Richmond Hill and York region, who rely on the York Central Hospital as the centre of health care for the region.

As the MPP representing much of the catchment area for the hospital, I had the privilege of confirming the Ministry of Health's commitment to fund the hospital's

capital expansion program more than a year ago. I have reminded the Minister of Health on a number of occasions of that commitment, that the need continues to be more acute and that the nurses, the

doctors, the patients and the community at large are becoming increasingly distressed that this government continues to stall this project.

Today I call on the minister again, and this time implore him to respond to the call of the community, as evidenced by the petition I tabled in the Legislature

yesterday, which demands that the York Central Hospital project be funded without further delay. It cites the fact that the hospital has met 100% of the Ministry of Health's planning requirements,

and that the hospital's emergency department was originally built for 25,000 visits and now sees over 63,000 units. I call on this minister and on this government to fund this project.

ENERGY CONSERVATION

Mr Wayne Arthurs (Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge): Earlier this month our Legislative Assembly joined provincial Parliaments across the country in the

annual illumination ceremony, Lights Across Canada. This ceremony is a wonderful tradition that marks the beginning of the holiday season here at Queen's Park.

This year, however, our ceremony was a little more impressive. If you've had a chance to look around at the trees here at the Legislature or over in the

government office complex, you may have noticed that this year our trees are decked in seasonal LED lights.

Light-emitting diodes, or LEDs, use a technology that's superior to standard incandescent strings. LEDs use a technology that is some 95% more energy-efficient

and can last several years longer than traditional lights.

Chaired by Donna Cansfield, the MPP for Etobicoke Centre and parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Energy, our government's conservation action team, made

up of parliamentary assistants from 12 ministries, has been working on the creation of a conservation culture in Ontario. This year, our government chose to practise what it preaches in taking the

necessary steps to show leadership in energy conservation strategies. These lights will help to significantly reduce our seasonal consumption of energy here at Queen's Park. In leading by example,

we'll continue to raise awareness about existing energy conservation programs and technologies. These LED lights are just one example of the many ways Ontarians can help to reduce their energy

consumption.

As citizens of this province, we must all take responsibility to conserve energy and protect our environment. It is important for each of us to reflect on what

we can do to reduce our energy consumption. By working together, we can make Ontario a leader in energy efficiency and conservation and, in so doing, make our province an even better place to

live.

TOBACCO GROWERS

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I have an e-mail from a tobacco farmer, and I quote: "As a tobacco producer, I am now broke. After

the crops are sold, I'll still be $125,000 in debt."

Now the banks and the tobacco companies are following this government's lead in destroying farm families. You lose your farm, you lose your house -- sometimes

you lose your family. Young people are leaving the family farm; they're looking for jobs in town. Tobacco farm country is no longer the ideal place to live, to work and to raise a family.

Farmers in Elgin, Norfolk, Oxford, Brant and elsewhere are browbeaten. They're disillusioned; they're exhausted. These farmers have lost hope. They worked hard

for a lifetime, and now their equity is gone, thanks to this government.

The question is, who's going to take care of them when their own ag minister won't? They can't collect unemployment. I see there are at least half a dozen

tobacco farmers in the gallery today.

This government is in bed with anti-tobacco extremists. This government has declared war on tobacco through smoke-free Ontario, but this very same government is

addicted to its share of the $8 billion in taxes from tobacco across the dominion of Canada. Where is the compensation for tobacco farmers in crisis?

Don't fudge it with talk of community transition dollars. These farmers don't need hand-holding; they need fair compensation. This government has been dragging

its feet. Now they need much more than that unfulfilled promise of $50 million. Time has run out.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I'm rising today to comment again about the Liberals' domestic violence strategy announced yesterday.

The Premier and the minister responsible for women's issues both repeatedly said how this plan was to break the cycle of violence. While the plan does introduce

more initiatives for better prevention and public awareness, and training, it falls far short of helping to break the cycle of violence for women already experiencing abuse.

The lack of housing options is among the two top reasons that make women remain with or return to their abusers. There is a scarcity of safe places to go.

Women's emergency shelters are filled to capacity and were not given any sustained funding yesterday. The money for fundraising training is of little relief for an urgent need for more shelter beds

and programs.

We just got a call in my office today about a pregnant woman about to give birth who is trying to leave an abusive situation. She has been turned away from

numerous shelters in the GTA due to lack of space. Yesterday's announcement does nothing for her.

It's not only shelters that are suffering due to lack of funding. On page 27 of the 2003 Liberal campaign book, the McGuinty Liberals said there needs to be more

second-stage housing and that they would reinstate funding for second-stage housing programs. But the Liberals did not deliver. They broke that promise, and now second-stage housing organizations

across the province are at risk of closing very soon.

The Liberal government is also failing to build more affordable housing, despite having received $300 million from the federal Liberals for construction. Women

need this housing in order to break the cycle of violence.

CHAMPIONNAT DE VOLLEYBALL /

VOLLEYBALL CHAMPIONSHIP

M. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): C'est avec plaisir que je viens applaudir l'équipe de volleyball, garçons seniors,

de l'école secondaire l'Escale de Rockland. Pour la deuxième année consécutive, ils ont remporté la médaille d'or au championnat provincial de volleyball de la

catégorie A.

This annual championship is organized by OFSSA and took place this year on Manitoulin Island in the beautiful riding of my colleague Mike Brown, the member for

Algoma-Manitoulin.

Je prends cette occasion pour applaudir le travail des entraîneurs, François St Denis et Jason Bédard, ainsi que les jeunes athlètes qui ont

participé au championnat: Jason Boivin, Guy Charbonneau, Vincent Cossette, Jean-Christian Daigle, Éric Drouin, David Gaudreau, Yannik Gadouas, Alexandre Joly, mon petit-neveu Jasmin

Laflèche, Stéphane Lemaire, Yanick Mulder, Matthew Nolan, Jonathan Samson et Corey Wilcox.

Bravo à l'équipe, et félicitations à la direction de l'école secondaire l'Escale de Rockland.

NATIONAL CHILD BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

Mr Cameron Jackson (Burlington): I rise to call the attention of the House today to yet another broken Liberal promise, and that was to end the

clawback of the national child benefit supplement for low-income families in Ontario. Just as he signed the taxpayer protection pledge and then turned his back on taxpayers and broke his word,

Dalton McGuinty signed another election promise document, this one called the emergency measures for women and children. He signed it in September 2000, promising that when he became Premier he

would end the clawback of the supplement. In typical Fiberal fashion, the government wants the $200 million to use on other programs rather than trust parents on social assistance to spend it on

their own children. The McGuinty Liberals are still clawing back over $1,000 per child in the national child benefit supplement payments from parents on welfare, despite their election promise.

On May 19 of this year, Minister Bountrogianni said she was content to break this promise since she was reviewing programs currently provided by these funds. As

recently as yesterday, the Minister of Social Services said the clawback won't be eliminated until the government can find $200 million for programs for children from low-income families. Who would

have imagined that the miserly McGuinty government is the Scrooge that stole Christmas from children on social assistance in our province?

VINNIE DIROLLO

Mr Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): I rise today to share a story of holiday spirit, generosity and random acts of kindness in my riding of

Oakville.

Vinnie DiRollo is well known in the Bronte area as a warm-hearted and high-spirited proprietor of Vinnie's Café. Last year, Vinnie tragically lost her son

Christian to brain illness; he was age nine. In memory of her son, Vinnie and a team of local business people have organized the Christian's Dream Foundation, which so far has raised over $120,000

for worthy causes, such as Rose Cherry's Home for Kids.

This holiday season, beyond its traditional fundraising efforts, the café is also focusing on promoting care and goodwill throughout the Oakville community.

Every 20th cup of coffee served in Vinnie's Café is on the house, with one catch: The recipients of the free purchase are directed to perform

an act of kindness for somebody else. The hope is

to start a chain reaction of spontaneous goodwill in the Oakville community.

This has caught on definitely in the Bronte community, as businesses such as True Life Chiropractic have adopted similar policies. I'm proud to report that this

initiative has snowballed in Oakville. Wouldn't it be great if we here in the assembly could help extend its reach into each of our own constituencies? I think the efforts of Vinnie DiRollo and all

members of the Oakville community involved are to be highly commended at this, the holiday season.

MAGNETIC RESONANCE IMAGING

Mr Phil McNeely (Ottawa-Orléans): When our Liberal government came to power last year, the city of Ottawa was faced with some of the

longest MRI wait times in the province. The Tories left behind a pretty big health care mess in Ottawa; in fact, Ottawa is so underserviced that our MRI capacity per capita was half that of other

cities in the province.

However, I am pleased to say that our Premier, our health minister and our government are working hard to address the inequities of the previous administration.

Did you hear that, John? Their work is already producing tangible results for residents of the Ottawa area. Last Friday, Premier McGuinty was on hand to officially open a new MRI at the

Orléans satellite clinic of l'hôpital Montfort. Another Liberal promise kept.

The Montfort MRI will serve residents from across eastern Ontario and will offer MRI patients the kind of quality bilingual care that has become the signature of

l'hôpital Montfort. Staff at the Montfort clinic is already providing diagnostic services to 16 patients per day, and the case volume is steadily increasing toward capacity.

This is the second new MRI our government has opened in Ottawa this year, in the hopes of improving access to services and reducing wait times. I thank the

Premier and the Minister of Health for recognizing how underserviced the Ottawa area was.

With our plan to open up seven more new MRI sites across this province and to bring private MRIs back into the public system, I am convinced we are on the right

track to building a healthier Ontario.

FISCAL ACCOUNTABILITY

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): I rise today to bring to the House's attention the fact that yesterday the Conservative and NDP caucuses

voted against fiscal transparency. They voted against the Fiscal Transparency and Accountability Act, legislation which forces the government to hand over the financial books to the Auditor General

for review prior to an election. The legislation ensures that there will never, ever be a repeat of the Harris-Eves government's $5.5-billion deficit deception.

The Conservatives voted against the Fiscal Transparency and Accountability Act in open defiance of their leader, who admitted on a Toronto radio show that his

party was not honest with the voters about Ontario's books being cooked to the tune of $5.5 billion. Even John Tory admitted the books were cooked. He said he would support such a bill that we

passed yesterday. To quote the Conservative leader, he said, "I'll support it if he brings it in. I think that's a very good idea." I just wonder, has Tory flip-flopped on having the books made

open for the people of Ontario, or is the caucus of the Conservatives in open revolt?

As for our NDP friends, it's no surprise that they have their heads in the sand. They took Ontario to the brink of bankruptcy, running up four straight deficits.

We know the story of their legacy.

I guess the message here is, what are our opposition parties, the NDP and the Tories, saying? Are they saying they don't want the people of Ontario to have a

view of the books, that they don't want the Provincial Auditor to look at our books? Do they want a repeat of the $5.5-billion deficit debacle that they underwent under Eves and Harris?

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CITY OF OTTAWA

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA VILLE D'OTTAWA

Mr Gerretsen moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 163,

An Act to amend the City of Ottawa Act, 1999 / Projet de loi 163, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1999 sur la ville d'Ottawa.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Minister Gerretsen?

Hon John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, minister responsible for seniors): I'll wait until ministerial statements,

Speaker.

MOTIONS

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I seek unanimous consent to move several motions respecting committees.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have consent? Agreed.

COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I move that the following amendments be made to the membership of certain

committees:

On the standing committee on general government, Ms Jeffrey replaces Mr Qaadri; on the standing committee on justice policy, Mr Qaadri replaces Mr Orazietti; on

the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly, Mr McMeekin replaces Ms Jeffrey, and Mr Peterson replaces Mr Craitor; on the standing committee on regulations and private bills, Mr Kular

replaces Mr Leal, and Mr Craitor replaces Mr Peterson; on the standing committee on social policy Mr Racco replaces Mr McMeekin.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The government House leader has moved amendments to the membership of certain committees. On the standing

committee on general government Ms Jeffrey replaces --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispensed.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I move that notwithstanding the order of the House dated June 17, 2004, all

committees may meet on Wednesday, December 15, 2004, and Thursday, December 16, 2004, for the purpose of organization.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The government House leader has moved that all committees may meet --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispensed.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

COMMITTEE

SCHEDULE

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I move that the following standing committees be authorized to meet during

the winter adjournment for the purpose of considering government business in accordance with the

schedule of meeting dates agreed to by the three party whips and tabled with the Clerk of the

Assembly: the standing committee on finance and economic affairs, the standing committee on general government, the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly, the standing committee on social

policy.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The government House leader has moved the following --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispensed. That's much easier for me.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

REFERRAL OF BILL 110

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I move that the order for second reading of Bill 110,

An Act to require the

disclosure of information to police respecting persons being treated for gunshot wounds, be discharged and the bill be referred to the standing committee on justice policy.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House the motion carry? Carried.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I seek unanimous consent to move a motion with respect to the order of

precedence for private members' bills.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent? Agreed.

Mr Bisson: Santa Claus has come early, and the government has just given us an opportunity to do this.

I move that notwithstanding standing order 96(d), the following changes be made to the ballot list for private members' public business: that Mr Hampton assume

ballot item number 47.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I'm going to request a minute so that the clerks' table can get the written and the spoken in sync.

Mr Bisson: Well, Mr Speaker, the original one came from the table. I'll try it again. Let's hope we've got it right this time: Notwithstanding

standing order 96(d), Mr Bisson and Mr Hampton exchange places in order of precedence for private members' public business and that notice be waived for ballot item number 47.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. The government House leader may put a light on this matter.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: We're prepared to go back to this motion

once the NDP gets its act together.

Mr Bisson: for the third time -- third strike, I'm out: Notwithstanding standing order 96(d), I say again, Mr Kormos and Mr Hampton exchange

places in order of precedence for private members' public business and notice be waived for ballot item 47, as I said the first time.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): Mr Speaker, on a point of order --

The Speaker: Let me just move the motion before you debate it. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? One second. I think Mr

Baird is right. He wants to debate the motion and he has the floor.

Mr Baird: I'd like to indicate on behalf of the official opposition that we're always happy to help our friends in the New Democratic Party

and we will support this resolution in the holiday spirit that exists in this place. I'd like to move adjournment of the debate.

The Speaker: The member for Nepean-Carleton has moved the adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House the motion carry?

Carried.

Hon Mr Duncan: Mr Speaker, on a point of order: I seek unanimous consent to allow Mr Bisson to put the same motion again.

The Speaker: Do we have unanimous consent for Mr Bisson to put the motion again?

Interjection: Get up there.

Mr Bisson: I can barely stand. We'll try it again, for the fourth time. I had it right the first time and the third time. I'll try it for the

fourth time now: Notwithstanding standing order 96(d), Mr Kormos and Mr Hampton exchange places in order of precedence for private members' public business and that the notice be waived for ballot

item 47 -- for the fourth time.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): Mr Speaker, on a point of order: Just for the benefit of the people in the galleries today,

I'd like to point out that, on occasion, this House does conduct itself much more efficiently than it has today.

The Speaker: The House has conducted itself efficiently. Thank you. That is not a point of order.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

WATER QUALITY

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): Earlier today, I had the opportunity to meet the students of Whitney Junior Public School

here in the city of Toronto. They are a very environmentally active school that has been certified as an eco-school, and I had the chance to discuss the importance of water protection with them. I

told the students this morning that Ontario deserves the best-protected water in North America. I am proud to inform the members of the House that today we are two steps closer to that goal.

Our government is protecting the quality and the quantity of our drinking water for future generations. We are introducing tough new rules for issuing permits

to take water from our lakes, rivers and aquifers. We are also releasing two major reports on surface and groundwater protection. Stronger water-taking rules will protect communities today, and

clear, science-based source water protection will benefit our environment and our health for generations. Clean, safe water is essential. We cannot live without it. If our supply of water is

threatened, our quality of life is at risk. We must have and we will have the highest standards, the toughest rules and the best science.

Today I am happy to announce tough new rules on removing water from Ontario's surface and groundwater sources. The old rules were 20 years old. An overhaul was

long overdue. The existing system has been criticized by the Environmental Commissioner, the Auditor General and Justice O'Connor. We listened to their criticisms and we are acting.

Under the old rules, we did not know how much water was being taken or how much water was available. It was like repeatedly taking money out of your bank

account without knowing the balance. The system we are putting in place will give us the information needed to make informed decisions. The new regulation clarifies and strengthens the rules for

granting permits to take water.

When a director at the Ministry of the Environment is considering whether to issue a permit, he or she will look at a number of things. They will consider how

much water flow there is and what the water level is. They will look at how the groundwater and surface water in the area interact. They will look at how much water is available and the quality of

that water.

When a person or a company applies for a permit, they will have to show that water conservation measures are in place or will be put in place. Permits to take

water will only be issued if it is clear that the water is needed and will actually be used in the near future. A director will be able to require mitigation efforts if residents or a community is

affected by a water-taking permit.

Finally, the new rules will take into account the existing level of water use in the watershed. Permits will no longer be issued for new or expanded takings

from watersheds where there is already high usage. These new rules mean there will be enough water for current use and future growth.

Today our government also released two important reports developed by some of Ontario's foremost experts on water protection. Our two expert committees have

been working hard for a year on ideas and recommendations for watershed-based source protection. These reports will help us end our patchwork approach to water protection and help us introduce a

new law to protect entire watersheds under a single plan.

These comprehensive recommendations will form the basis of legislation to establish an innovative province-wide water resource protection system. Never before

has this much technical expertise been devoted to identifying and preventing threats before they reach our drinking water. The reports recommend security zones around wellheads and water intakes to

ensure contaminants cannot get into a water supply. The reports also identify a list of significant threats, such as chemical storage, landfills and abandoned wells, that will help local

authorities assess and properly manage their risks.

We are moving from a reactive approach to water protection to a preventive approach. We owe that to the seven people who died and the thousands who became ill

in Walkerton in the year 2000. We cannot afford to let our protection efforts lag. We will not be satisfied until our water protection is the best in North America and the envy of the world. Today

we are taking actions to help ensure that Ontario's water supply needs are met today and for generations to come.

CITY OF OTTAWA

LANGUAGE SERVICES /

SERVICES LINGUISTIQUES D'OTTAWA

Hon John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, minister responsible for seniors): I'm very pleased today to have the privilege

to introduce an amendment to the City of Ottawa Act, 1999.

Je suis très heureux aujourd'hui d'avoir le privilège de présenter une modification à la Loi de 1999 sur la ville d'Ottawa.

For years, democratically elected representatives of the city of Ottawa have been waiting for these changes to take place. The previous government rejected

Ottawa's requests. The previous government ignored the wishes of the mayor and the council of the city of Ottawa.

This government is listening. We have listened to the people of the city of Ottawa, and we are introducing legislation that requires the city to adopt a policy

Nous avons écouté les gens d'Ottawa et nous présentons une mesure législative en vertu de laquelle la ville sera tenue d'adopter une

des services municipaux ou une

partie précisée de ces services.

This proposed legislative amendment is in keeping with the city's request. With the proposed legislation that I'm introducing, this government is demonstrating

our belief in municipal autonomy over local issues.

The French Language Services Act, among other things, authorizes municipalities in designated areas of the province to pass bylaws to provide all or specified

My ministry and the Office of Francophone Affairs have been working together to develop this proposed amendment. We believe our proposed legislation will

recognize the bilingual character of our nation's capital.

Mon ministère et l'Office des affaires francophones ont travaillé ensemble à l'élaboration de la modification proposée. Nous estimons

que cette mesure législative reconnaîtra le caractère bilingue de notre capitale nationale.

Our proposed legislation does not change the city of Ottawa's freedom to develop its own policy regarding the issue. It is this government's view -- and it has

always been this government's view -- that it's the city of Ottawa's responsibility to develop a policy, including any consultation with affected groups as it feels necessary.

In conclusion, I want to reiterate that this government is pleased to respond to the city of Ottawa's request, and we applaud Ottawa council's desire to

Je vous remercie, monsieur le Président.

WATER QUALITY

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): The Minister of the Environment just released two reports but no bill. Minister, where is the

legislation you promised in a speech to the Grand River Conservation Authority? You made a promise that we would see source water protection by the end of this year. Is this another broken

promise?

I would like to remind the minister that it was our government that first acted on protecting Ontario's water resources. In 2003 we drafted amendments to the

water taking and transfer regulation. Once again, our actions started this province down the road toward stronger protection. Our party recognizes the need to protect our resources. The difference

is that we act on it and you and your Liberal colleagues continue to make decisions that are really not thought through. You make promises you don't keep.

Your press release states that "where there is already a high level of water use in a watershed," you will refuse new or expanded permits. Your proposed

regulation focuses on high-use watersheds instead of focusing on a science-based approach. You've taken the political approach. You could actually be punishing those in high-use watersheds even if

the water taking is sustainable, yet you could be allowing withdrawal on a low-use watershed that could not sustain it. Maybe you're giving your staff the ability to refuse a PTTW even though it's

in the best location from a science-based sustainability perspective.

Again, has staff opened the door for you to get involved to interfere, perhaps based on politics rather than on science? I will remind the minister that water

bottlers, this target of yours, take about 0.2% of all the water taken in Ontario. Two thirds of the water is taken for dams, reservoirs, cooling water and hydroelectricity. I say again, where is

the real commitment to source water protection? Where is the legislation?

In September, you gave a speech at the Grand River Conservation Authority. I was there that day. You promised you would have source water protection

legislation by the end of this year. You've got maybe two or three days left in the Legislature. Perhaps this is a promise unfulfilled.

CITY OF OTTAWA

LANGUAGE SERVICES /

SERVICES LINGUISTIQUES D'OTTAWA

M. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): L'opposition officielle, le Parti progressiste-conservateur, et notre chef avons toujours appuyé les

été adopté unanimement il y a 15 ans par cette Assemblée législative.

Quand les conservateurs étaient le gouvernement dans cette province, on a créé 12 conseils scolaires francophones, élus par les

francophones, et pour la première fois dans l'histoire de la province, l'équité dans le financement de l'éducation. Pour la première fois dans l'histoire de la province, un

jeune francophone du sud-ouest de l'Ontario, de Windsor, ou d'Ottawa ou du nord-est, de Penetanguishene, a reçu l'équité, le même montant d'argent pour son éducation. Ce

sont des exemples réels qui peuvent aider les familles francophones à combattre l'assimilation dans la province de l'Ontario.

I did have a great opportunity to read this bill. This is how long it is: one page. The word "bilingual" isn't even in the bill.

This bill is like a Christmas dinner without any turkey. This bill is like a birthday party without a birthday cake. This bill is like an Easter Sunday morning

with no Easter egg hunt. This bill is a hamburger with no beef. This bill is like hell without the devil. This bill is like Parliament without Kormos.

People may have disagreed with the position of the previous government, la position de ne pas avoir un statut bilingue. Après l'adoption de ce projet de

loi, on n'aura toujours pas un statut bilingue dans la province de l'Ontario.

This is a weak bill that will do absolutely nothing for francophone families in Nepean-Carleton and throughout Ottawa. I'm surprised they would even waste

their time bringing it forward.

M. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-Baie James): Tout ce que je peux dire, c'est que ça fait longtemps qu'on attend que le gouvernement fasse

quelque chose pour la ville d'Ottawa. On sait ce qui est arrivé. Il y a eu un fusionnement. La ville d'Ottawa n'existe plus comme elle était avant que le gouvernement conservateur l'ait

fusionnée. Quand le fusionnement est arrivé, on a perdu le statut officiel de la ville d'Ottawa, qui avait besoin d'être conféré par la province de l'Ontario.

Comme vous le savez, monsieur le Président, j'ai introduit un projet de loi ici à l'Assemblée au nom des néo-démocrates le printemps

passé demandant directement de faire ceci. Là, on voit qu'il y a un projet de loi en place. Je veux dire qu'on est content qu'il y a quelque chose ici. On veut dire qu'on est

« supportif », mais ce n'est pas trop clair, ce qui est dans la motion. Je veux dire au gouvernement que, certainement, je veux voir la décision, avec la ville d'Ottawa et

autres, pour savoir si c'est réellement ce qu'ils veulent avoir, parce que ce qui est important, c'est de ne pas jouer des jeux avec cette question. La ville d'Ottawa est une

réalité. Il y a des francophones en nombre. C'est une communauté qui est reconnue comme étant une ville où il y a beaucoup de francophones, qui avait déjà le

statut, et on a besoin de s'assurer que la ville d'Ottawa a conféré sur elle ce qu'il y avait dans le passé.

Quand je lis ce projet de loi, je ne dis pas que ça doit prendre 15 pages; tout ce qu'on dit, c'est qu'on donne l'opportunité à la ville

d'Ottawa de créer une politique pour se déclarer officiellement bilingue elle-même. À la fin de la journée, j'imagine que c'est une manière inverse de donner à

Ottawa le statut bilingue. Mais d'habitude ce qui arrive, pour être clair, c'est que la municipalité fait la demande elle-même et c'est la province qui dit, « Oui, on vous

donne le statut. » Dans ce cas-ci, c'est un peu l'inverse : c'est la province qui dit, « On vous donne un projet de loi qui vous dit que, si vous avez une politique

officiellement bilingue, vous êtes capable de vous déclarer vous-même. »

Je dis que politiquement, c'est intéressant, mais j'aurais aimé que le gouvernement libéral fût très clair avec la question : que

l'on connaît la réalité de l'Ontario pour les francophones, qu'on reconnaît que c'est une municipalité qui est bilingue et que l'on confère ses droits sur cette

municipalité.

WATER QUALITY

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): In response to the Minister of the Environment, the McGuinty Liberals have already made a farce of

protecting water from mass water takings when they gave approval to the big pipe in King City. In a speech that the minister delivered this past July, she said the moratorium on water taking "is

designed to prevent uses that would transport millions of litres of water out of local watersheds without giving consideration to the long-term environmental consequences. It is intended to stop

the reckless giveaway of Ontario's water." But days later, they broke the spirit of their own moratorium on water taking and the promise to protect water at its source by granting approval for the

big pipe.

The McGuinty Liberals are now on record as issuing a permit for one of the largest water takings ever. One phase alone is taking 66 billion litres of

groundwater from the interconnected Oak Ridges moraine's aquifer system. So I am fully expecting, after the minister's announcement today, that she will revisit the big pipe decision, which, by the

way, also undermines the greenbelt's stated purpose to protect hydrological systems in Ontario.

I want to make a point about source water plans, as the minister said, having primacy over other laws, including official plans. I'm curious to see if this is

implemented, considering what the Liberals did in committee to my amendment which would have made that happen. When general government met for amendments to the Planning Act, I proposed an

amendment that would require official plans and planning applications to comply with source water protection. But guess what? The majority of the Liberals on the committee turned that down.

Given their refusal to do it then, it is not encouraging to hear this announcement today that they are going to do it now. But they will have several

opportunities to see to it in the pending source water protection legislation and Greenbelt Act. I hope that after the minister's announcement today, she will revisit that amendment and see fit to

include it; otherwise, the stated purpose today will not come about.

I wanted to make another point about aggregates being exempt. I'm troubled to see that they are exempted from these new rules. The proposed greenbelt plan and

the proposed provincial policy statement actually strengthen the aggregate industry's clutch on greenbelt lands, and now we see that they have an exemption from water taking today on the grounds

that they don't take that much water, a significant amount, out of the ground. Number one, they do. Number two, many of these aggregates are on greenbelt land. They're being exempted from that, and

now they're being exempted from these water-taking rules. Given the serious impacts on water of aggregate extraction and the government's own stated intention to protect water sources and

watersheds, exempting aggregates from these new rules is an about-face. Any water taking from the greenbelt, one of the supposed centrepieces of the source water protection strategy, cannot be

considered incidental.

Interjections.

Ms Churley: They want me to stop now over there, Mr Speaker. I'm sure they would love to hear more. See, the minister wants me to go on.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you.

JOHN BROWN

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I believe we have unanimous consent for each

party to speak for up to five minutes on the passing of former MPP John L. Brown.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): It is a time of reflection whenever a person who has served in this assembly, for a

long period of time or short, happens to pass away. John Brown did serve in the assembly from 1967 to 1971 as the member for Beaches-Woodbine for the New Democratic Party. He was a man who

distinguished himself, for the most part, for his interest in the field of health and particularly mental health and children's mental health. He was born in South Dakota, and he was one of 11

children.

When you're looking at some of the information that is provided, you will know that some people have their minds made up or their thoughts formulated by their

youthful days. Mr Brown -- it was certainly the fact that he grew up in some difficult circumstances in South Dakota. As I mentioned, there were 11 children in the family. "His associates say

Brown's character was strongly shaped by watching his father's repeated failures at farming, his subsequent loss of land and the fierce struggle that forced the family band into a driving unit for

survival. Brown was a natural leader among them."

As a member of the Legislature, he was not one who particularly enjoyed this House. He was a person who, rather, fought many of his battles outside of the

Legislative Assembly of Ontario. No doubt he was a person within his own caucus who spoke out on many issues and didn't always have the unanimous support of the caucus, but he fought on for that in

which he believed. Stephen Lewis, formerly of the New Democratic Party, recognized a talent early on when he was dealing with some very difficult children. John Brown was prepared to take on the

job of dealing with children who had some immense problems in terms of mental health and to work with those children.

In the Legislature, he was certainly very critical in the role of the opposition in the field of health care of the government of the day, from 1967 to 1971.

He had a good deal of passion about mental health. I think all of us recognize that it's one of the areas in life, and indeed the life of a Legislature, where we have seen less emphasis than we

would like to see. Mental health, in the total spectrum of health, has never enjoyed -- in any circumstances I can remember -- the kind of emphasis that it should. This would have been very

frustrating to John Brown because of his great concern about those youngsters.

He was the executive director of Browndale International Ltd and Brown Camps, and it was an organization that dealt exclusively with troubled youth. They did

not take on easy cases. Others may not have been prepared to do so; John Brown and his group were prepared to take on the most difficult. He had a revolutionary approach to children's mental

health. It involved intense, 24-hour-care, compassionate treatment of children, and allowing children to express themselves. He was very hands-on in terms of the treatment provided. He took great

strides both before and after his election to communicate the need for the Ministry of Health to invest in children's mental health facilities, and that cry is with us today, as it has been for a

long time. Everyone is trying to respond to that. Stephen Lewis referred to him as "a dedicated rescuer of profoundly troubled children."

He was a member of the standing committee on health, the standing committee on welfare and reform, and the standing committee on social, family and

correctional services. You recognize by the committees that he chose to be on -- because that's usually what members do; they make that request -- that he was very dedicated in that particular

field.

To members of his family and his associates, we extend our deep sympathy on his passing recently.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): It's my pleasure to rise on behalf of the official opposition to extend our sincerest sympathies to the

family of John Brown, someone who served in this House for four years in the late 1960s and early 1970s. He was someone whom Ellie Tesher of the Toronto Star called "an outstanding social worker."

Brown, according to professional colleagues, including some critics, is the man who did most to advance the cause of disturbed children in this province.

On behalf of the Leader of the Opposition, Bob Runciman, our leader, John Tory, and indeed the entire Conservative caucus, I would like to extend our sincerest

sympathies to Mr Brown's family.

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): It is indeed a privilege and an honour to speak about John Brown, who was, of course, the predecessor for

many years of the old riding of Beaches-Woodbine, serving in this Legislature from 1967 to 1971.

When you start to look at the old newspaper clippings and some of the stories around the Legislature, when you talk to people who were here at that time, the

words to describe John Brown are quite common: He was a brilliant man, he was uncompromising, he was passionate and he was very committed, especially to children and to those who he felt had been

abused by the system.

He grew up poor. As has been said in the Legislature already, he was one of 11 children. His father was a failed farmer. His father lost his land, and John

Brown and his family had to struggle from his early years in a life of poverty.

But he went on to become educated in a way that I think very few people can understand -- a person born into such rural poverty. If you look at his biography,

which you can find in the legislative library, he had a bachelor of social work, a master's degree, ACSW, AGPA. He was educated at the University of Minnesota, the University of British Columbia

school of social work, the University of Chicago school of social services. He was recognized in the United States, Canada and Britain for his academic background.

He really came on to the stage, though, in Ontario, in 1953, when he was hired to work at Warrendale. We all know of that groundbreaking institution. In fact,

there are some good quotes, again from Ellie Tesher, who I think everybody in the Legislature, or at least the three of us who spoke, had an opportunity to refer to. She wrote:

"Doug Barr, director of Metro Children's Aid Society, summed up the controversy of Brown's treatment program:

"`Some of the best care for children and some of the worst care has been provided by Browndale. They've taken in some of the toughest kids and hung in the

longest with them, with quite significant results.'"

The children he sought to serve were probably the most disturbed youth of the day, and he had amazing success. Quoting again from this same article:

"Brown arrived with his first wife Liz fresh from a social work degree at the University of British Columbia and early training in Windsor helping disturbed

children using innovative methods of leading therapists.

"A former colleague says Brown arrived at a time when Ontario's ministry of social welfare was paying `five cents a day per child.'" I think that's a little

bit of hyperbole, but obviously not enough money was being spent in those days.

He went on to establish Browndale and Warrendale, and the

article says:

"At Warrendale, Brown launched the beginning of group home therapy programs in Ontario -- family-like treatment units, with five children and three child care

workers living in houses on residential streets. Senior staff, like Brown himself, were `extended family' to the youngsters."

Today we take for granted that children are allowed to remain in the community and not put in institutions, and we accept as a matter of right that those

children will be looked after in community settings. He was the first, he was the pioneer and he was very controversial.

In 1967, Mr Brown chose to run for this Legislature and represented the people of Beaches-Woodbine, as the riding was then known. He was a controversial figure

here. He often spoke in disparaging tones to the government of the day. He was very angry and he was very unhappy, I would have to say, from what we understand of life in the Legislature. He chose

not to run again in 1971 and went back to his first love; that is, looking after children.

Of course -- and no one has said this -- he found himself in troubles in his later life. I suppose that can happen to each and every one of us. But he remains

a figure that many Canadians respect and admire. Many people of Ontario remember how well he helped troubled youth, and we remember him for that.

We asked for a word from one of his colleagues at the time, Rev William Ferrier, and he quoted it best: "His friends remember him as a friendly, warm-hearted,

compassionate human being they could count on for support during tough times. He's the kind of guy you could lean on."

New Democrats remember his life. We sympathize and send sympathy to his family and friends, and remember a true pioneer in Ontario.

J. EARL MCEWEN

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I believe we have unanimous consent for each party to speak for up to five

minutes on the passing of former MPP J. Earl McEwen.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent for each party to speak? Agreed.

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): I didn't know his first name was Joseph, but it was Joseph Earl McEwen. We always

knew him as J. Earl McEwen, who represented the riding from both the Liberal perspective and the Conservative perspective at different times and also as an independent. He's one member who has sat

in this Legislature representing two political parties and his riding as an independent.

He was certainly a colourful character. The member for Kingston and the Islands, the Honourable John Gerretsen, would say that he was probably best known as

the reeve of Kingston township, and that Kingston township became somewhat urbanized and had its greatest period of growth under J. Earl McEwen as reeve. He held many positions at the local

level.

He was the eldest of six siblings, born in Sharbot Lake, Ontario. He was elected to the riding of Frontenac-Addington first in 1975, re-elected in 1977 and

1981 and ended his career in 1985. He was an owner-operator of a small chain of supermarkets and dairy stores, so he was a person who knew local business extremely well; a former reeve of Kingston

township -- and this is a long period of time -- for some 16 years, as well as a past warden of Frontenac county.

I remember J. Earl very well. He was a "regular guy," they would say within his riding. Business and politics consumed most of his life. He was a person who

understood his riding well, because he enjoyed hunting and fishing and farming. In particular, we all remember his pride in the horse-breeding field. He used to show horses on many occasions and

was very expert in the field. If you wanted to know anything about horses, you asked J. Earl McEwen.

His former campaign chair said that he left his mark in many ways, not only in Kingston township but also in the Kingston area and the province. "Politics has

times of great highs and lows, and J. Earl's seen them all. Fortunately, there have been more highs" for J. Earl McEwen.

There were some interesting things about him. J. Earl did not particularly like this House as a place. He enjoyed being a member of provincial Parliament, but

he didn't believe that an awful lot would be accomplished within the legislative precinct itself and therefore spent a lot of time in his own constituency working with people there. He preferred

helping people in the riding to sitting at Queen's Park.

He often said, "`I only spent half the time I should have in Toronto, because there was no sense. You go up there and don't accomplish anything. Out in the

riding you get things done.' He maintained offices at the north and south ends of the riding as well as ... Toronto."

We will also remember him for his vehicle. I know the members from eastern Ontario remember J. Earl and his Lincoln. It's referred to as his "Lincoln" here. I

was always under the impression it was a Cadillac, but it says "Lincoln" in the article.

It says, "During his heyday, Mr McEwen was a politician, landlord, grocery chain store owner and hobby farmer with champion quarter horses. He toured the

riding in a two-door Lincoln, often wearing a wide-brimmed hat and chewing on a cigar. `People never took any offence to me driving the Lincoln because I was a regular guy with them,' Mr McEwen

said."

To a number of his colleagues, as well, when they asked him, "J. Earl, your riding is one which has many challenges financially that the people in the riding

have to meet. How are you greeted when you show up in this huge vehicle, and why do you drive this lovely new vehicle into the riding?" he said, in a joking way, "They've got to know that somebody

important is coming to town." That was the humour that J. Earl had.

He was a very grassroots politician who worked the riding exceedingly well, who had a sense of humour that was very much appreciated in his own riding. He was

a person who will be remembered in the Legislative Assembly because of his independent thoughts on many issues. He was not a person easy to rein in. We always talk in this Legislature in a jocular

way about the trained seals, as they're supposedly called, whether they're on one side of the House or the other. Well, you could never describe J. Earl McEwen as a trained seal, because he could

be just as ornery with a Conservative or a Liberal Premier as he could with anybody else if they disagreed with his riding.

We extend to J. Earl McEwen's family and close friends our condolences upon his passing at a ripe old age, having accomplished a lot for the part of the

province that he represented so ably.

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leader of the Opposition): I appreciate the opportunity, on behalf of the Progressive Conservative caucus, to say a few

words about the life of Earl McEwen.

It used to be the tradition that the party the deceased MPP represented would get to speak first about his or her passing. But in Earl's case we'd have to flip

a coin.

There are only, I believe, four or five members remaining in the House who served with Earl, and I'm one of them. Before arriving here in 1981, I'd certainly

heard of Earl McEwen, and I'm sure the member for Kingston and the Islands will agree that Earl was a larger-than-life character in our part of the province.

Earl was, I think it's fair to say, a down-to-earth, plain-speaking kind of guy who was probably underestimated for much of his political life. He was

undoubtedly the only member representing a largely rural riding who could get away with driving around in a huge Lincoln or Cadillac. He had a different story, Jim, in the riding. He said it was

because people knew he was a regular guy.

Earl's involvement in provincial politics was, to say the least, colourful. He was something of a political chameleon. He started out by running for a

Conservative nomination and, when he was unsuccessful, ran as an independent. My recollection is that he lost that election. He made it into the Legislature as a Liberal and served eight years in

that caucus. Then, in a master stroke of bad political timing, he crossed the floor to join the Tories shortly before Bill Davis announced his retirement. Earl carried the Conservative colours into

the 1995 election, and that ended his days as an MPP.

Despite his political life coming to a close on a down note, Earl McEwen had a great deal to be proud of. He was a very successful businessman and, as a

municipal politician, he led Kingston township through its highest growth years. Earl McEwen was a good man who made a significant contribution to his community and his province.

On behalf of our caucus, I want to extend our deepest sympathy to his family members.

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I rise today on behalf of New Democrats to talk about Mr McEwen and the long time he spent, not only in

this Legislature but also as a local politician back home. Mr McEwen probably understood more than most the old saying that Tip O'Neill said just south of the border: "Politics is local."

Mr McEwen first got into politics -- why? -- because he owned a store on a street somewhere around Kingston in the county of Frontenac-Addington, didn't like

what the local township was doing when it came to how they maintained that particular street, went to see his local politician, the alderman there, didn't like the answer and said, "Well, I'll

run." Run he did, and elected he was.

He served, first of all, for the township of Kingston, where he was very involved in municipal planning and in making sure he worked hard on behalf of the

local constituents to put that area of the province, Kingston and the surrounding area, on the map.

He quickly rose to the position of deputy reeve and eventually became the reeve of the township of Kingston. He was very involved in many of the things that

many people in Kingston now take for granted. We often forget that all these things we use every day in our communities come from somewhere.

Mr McEwen was very involved in developing the parks in that city. He was very well known for being a friend of the people who were trying to preserve green

spaces in and around the Kingston area. He was also very well known as a person who really cared about how cities do their planning when it comes to dealing with issues of construction and

development in their communities.

It didn't end there. Mr McEwen that there was a higher calling, and like many people, decided to get involved in provincial politics. As Mr Runciman said, he

first ran as a Conservative, probably as a bit of a right-of-centre person you can identify as a politician. He didn't make it the first time out. He tried as an independent and didn't. But one

thing we can say about Mr McEwen is that he was a persistent individual, and the third time out he ran as a Liberal and got elected. He served back in the mid-1970s with some of the names in this

Legislature that will go down in history. A number of people who served in this Legislature at the time were people we still know today, even though this was some 30 years ago. Mr McEwen served

with distinction.

Mr McEwen was a bit of a different politician. Some of us in this House excel in the Legislature, and some of us, if lucky, excel in cabinet and in government.

Other people excel in their ridings, and that was Mr McEwen's calling. His calling was to work with his constituents. He was a person who understood his constituents, knew where they were coming

from and could identify with them. It didn't matter if you were working class or ruling class, rich or poor, a man or a woman, he was your representative and he did that well for the many years he

served in this Legislature.

Eventually, we have to say, he was a person who stuck to his point. In early 1984 or 1985 he was in disagreement with the then government, decided he couldn't

take it any more and crossed the floor. I have to say that's not an easy thing to do. Many of us in this Legislature wouldn't contemplate doing that, because we know there is fallout. But he felt

strongly and he was a person of his convictions. He disagreed with particular decisions made at that time by that government and said, "I will cross the floor as a show of protest because I am not

in agreement."

We may laugh a little bit about that, but that takes a certain amount of courage, although politically, if you look back at comments he made on his retirement

-- and I have the quote here but I have to find it; of course I can never find quotes when I'm looking for them. Mr McEwen said it was one of the worst things he did, because he recognized at the

end that the relationships he made within the Liberal caucus were very important to him and some of those were severed by his crossing the floor. He gave the advice: "If anybody thinks of ever

doing that again, my advice to you is not to do it." I think it takes a great man to understand, once he's made a decision, if he was wrong, and to move forward and accept that. It says something

about the person. He was certainly a person of conviction and character.

I also want to say that Mr McEwen, when it comes to what he did in retirement, didn't just end there. When he finally left politics in 1985, he was still very

involved in his community. In fact, he served as deputy fire chief for the community in a volunteer fire department of some 70 or 80 members at that time, and served it well. He was very well liked

by the people in his community who served with him at the fire department and in the parks organizations and others that he served with.

Mr McEwen died in the month of November at the age of 94. He was predeceased by his wife and his son Robert and is survived by three granddaughters and seven

great-grandchildren. On behalf of New Democrats, on behalf of members of this assembly and especially on behalf of those he served in his riding, we say to Mr McEwen and his family: Job well done.

It was a pleasure having you with us while you were here.

The Speaker: Thank you. I'm sure the family, friends and Ontarians appreciate the kind words said about those former members who served us so

well.

ORAL QUESTIONS

HYDRO GENERATION

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question to the Premier. This session has been marked by more broken promises, no

answers from you in the House on key questions and serious questions being raised about the competency of your government.

Premier, we have asked several questions on this topic throughout this session. We've never received an answer. In fact, we asked you about this issue 14 days

ago, so surely you have an answer by now. You're on the record on several occasions very clearly saying that you will keep your promise to close all coal plants by the end of your term. You said as

early as September 2002: "I am committed to doing it come hell or high water." Your energy minister announces he'll keep some plants open, just in case. Can you explain this obvious broken

promise?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Let me just say how pleased I am with the absolutely outstanding work

that is being done by our Minister of Energy on behalf of Ontarians. He's had a tremendous amount of ground to make up for, given the state of affairs as we found them.

Let me just say that unlike my colleagues opposite, who have no interest in cleaning up the air which is causing some terrible states of health, particularly

in young people and seniors, we are fully intent on cleaning up the kinds of generation that we have in the province of Ontario. Specifically, we are determined to eliminate coal-fired generation

in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary.

Mr Runciman: Vacillate, waffle, blame the opposition, anything but answer the question: That's the consistent pattern. Premier, you personally

promised to close the coal plants by 2007. You didn't qualify it. There was no asterisk: "Maybe we'll keep some open, just in case we need them." You said, "They will be closed: no ands, ifs or

buts." That's what you said. Premier, do you consider now that you misled the people of Ontario?

The Speaker: The member has used some unparliamentary language. I must ask you to withdraw that.

Mr Runciman: Speaker, I asked for the Premier's view; I didn't accuse him of anything.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. I must ask the member to withdraw the unparliamentary word.

Mr Runciman: In good conscience, I can't, Speaker.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order.

Just for the parliamentary decorum that we like to maintain, I will have to name you if you refuse to withdraw those comments.

Mr Runciman was escorted from the chamber.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Could I have some order, please? Final supplementary?

I'll have a new question.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: There had been a question asked and a supplementary asked. There is an

opportunity for a second supplementary. Of course, there's no requirement that it be the same member who asks the supplementary, and in fact my hard-working colleague from Parry Sound-Muskoka has a

supplementary ready to go.

The Speaker: I appreciate your comment, but I have ruled on it, and I'm going to take a new question.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): My question is to the Premier. I want to talk about your failed policy on hospital financing. This

morning, your Minister of Health re-announced $26 million in funding. But too often, your government doesn't follow through on the commitments it makes. Too often, you break your promises.

Last summer, with great fanfare you and your minister announced $470 million of new funding for Ontario hospitals. Can you tell me, of that $470 million, how

much of that money has flowed to Ontario hospitals so that they can pay nurses and other health care workers and do a good job for patients?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Health.

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): While I can confirm for the honourable member that we have not completed all of

the reviews of balanced budget plans and interim accountability agreements; I can answer the question directly by saying that more than $300 million of that money has already flowed.

Mr Baird: The reality is that all around the province of Ontario, hospitals are having to borrow money commercially at high interest rates to

pay for the fact that you are hoarding that money at your ministry.

Your wait-list guru, Dr Alan Hudson, is quoted in the Ottawa Citizen in an

article entitled "`No Promises' on Faster Care for Ontarians: Wait Times for Key

Treatments Unlikely to Improve Before Election." He is quoted as saying directly, "I can't promise we'll get the waiting times down" by 2006.

People are starting to question you and your government's competence on this. I have a direct question for you, Minister: What is an acceptable amount of time

for you to see a frail and elderly senior wait for a hip or knee replacement? What is your acceptable time frame for a senior to wait?

Hon Mr Smitherman: Obviously, by the example that we presented in today's announcement, the acceptable time is a lot less than it was under

that party while in government. Further, to be on the end of a lecture from the honourable member who was part of a party that, while in government, forced Ontario hospitals to take into their

budgets $721 million in unpaid operating bills from earlier years -- we don't need a lecture on that point either.

On the issue of timeliness, it was the honourable member's colleague, who sits in the front row, who had to be bailed out by the Premier of the day, running

all over Toronto handing out cheques because of the criticism that money was flowing too slowly.

We make no apology for the fact that Ontario hospitals are working hard on the development of balanced budget plans, which we've reviewed and which have had

peer review involvement. We're flowing funds as those are approved. Any hospital in Ontario that has any difficulty with cash flow knows that there's an established relationship with the ministry

where we back them up. That is as it has been, and that is as it will be.

Mr Baird: I say to the minister, his own wait-time guru has acknowledged that neither he nor his government can get waiting times down by

2006. The minister can't stand in his place and say what he believes is an acceptable waiting time for a frail and elderly senior to wait for a hip or knee replacement, and that's an absolute

disgrace.

A few weeks ago, you spoke about Sunnybrook and Women's College hospital being a centre for excellence in hip and knee replacements. You said this on CBC radio

just a few short weeks ago. As part of you're announcement this morning for hip and knee replacements, Sunnybrook and Women's College is not getting one red cent of new funding. Can you tell us why

you are not supporting Sunnybrook and Women's College?

Hon Mr Smitherman: With respect to the first part of the honourable member's question, today we made an announcement that funds, in the

balance of this fiscal year, 1,680 additional hips and knees. That's about access for people who need it.

Secondly, it is due to the sheer absence of any progress whatsoever on the part of your party while in government to build a wait-times registry capacity that

it is difficult to measure. But as we are investing in new volumes, we're also investing tremendous energy, under the leadership of the established Canadian expert Dr Peter Glynn, to build the

wait-times registry that's necessary.

On the third point, not all hospitals in Ontario sought additional volumes after we asked them. Some of them indicated that they did not have the capacity in

the balance of this fiscal year to deliver additional surgeries. What we say to all of them today is that as we move forward with additional volumes in 2005-06, all hospitals have the chance to

participate.

TAXATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. What is the gas tax money that goes to municipalities supposed to be

used for? Will you tell us what action you'll take if municipalities use that gas tax money inappropriately?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): We're very pleased to be the first government in the history of this

province to form a genuine partnership with our municipalities and to invest two cents of the gas tax, when fully phased in, to be invested, as the member opposite knows full well, in public

transit. Fully phased in, that will result in an additional $312 million made available to Ontario municipalities so that they can invest in public transit. That is good for our air quality, it is

good for our personal convenience and it is good for our economy. That's why we did it.

Mr Hampton: The Premier needs to provide that information to his Minister of Labour, Mr Bentley. This is an

article from the London Free

Press, where Mr Bentley says that he is embarrassed that the McGuinty government child care plan doesn't provide the city of London with enough money to access the federal child care funding that

would allow for the creation of new child care spaces. Your Minister of Labour, Mr Bentley, has suggested that the city of London use the gas tax money for child care, not for public transit.

Premier, will you tell us, is the gas tax money for child care or public transit? Your Minister of Labour needs to know.

Hon Mr McGuinty: I have every confidence in my Minister of Labour's understanding of the intention behind this policy. Unfortunately, I cannot

say the same thing for my colleague opposite.

The money is intended, obviously, for public transit, and it will relax some of the pressures on our municipalities when it comes to other areas for which they

must assume responsibility. It will mean that there is less pressure on the city of London, for example, to invest in public transit, because our government is now making funds available to that

end, and it means that money that might otherwise have gone there is available for child care. That is exactly what it means. We are proud to say we're working with our municipal partners.

Mr Hampton: Speaker, I want you to clearly understand what the Premier is suggesting. You take the money for the gas tax and you put that in

the envelope, and then you take the money that was going to be spent on public transit and you move it over here. When the police see that, they call it money laundering. That is what they call

it.

Premier, why don't you just do the right thing? You promised $300 million of new provincial funding for child care. Instead of promising, "We are going to give

you gas tax money for public transit, but then when you get that public transit money, you can take public transit money and move it over to child care," instead of trying to fool people, why don't

you stop letting people down, stop dashing their hopes and keep your promise? Where is the $300 million of new provincial money for child care?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I've got to hand it to the NDP: Who else could turn a story about a provincial government giving $312 million to Ontario

municipalities, an action that is without precedent, and turn it into a bad-news story? Only the NDP. Who else could take a provincial government that is funding 4,000 new subsidized day care

spaces in partnership with our municipalities and somehow turn that into a bad-news story? Only the NDP.

It is my hope that at some time, as we close in on December 25, my good friend opposite will be become enthused with the spirit and start to feel good about

living in Ontario and start to feel good about some of the things that our government is doing in partnership with the municipalities.

AEROSPACE INDUSTRY

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Premier -- the Premier asked the question: Your Minister of Labour did it, and the city

councillor in London says it is reprehensible; it's a manipulation of a program.

But I now want to ask you about Bombardier. Very soon, Bombardier will decide where to do the final assembly of their new C series commercial jet. New

Democrats believe that bringing 2,500 assembly jobs, 2,500 other jobs and $250 billion of new economic activity to Ontario is important. Do you know what? The city of Toronto agrees, because they

have voted and come up with a plan to bring Bombardier to Downsview. The question is, what is the McGuinty government's plan? No one knows. Premier, time is running out. What is your government's

plan to bring the final assembly of the new C series jet to Downsview and Ontario?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): It's always somewhat intimidating to be receiving economic advice from

the NDP. Let me say that we have been in touch with both the federal government and representatives of Bombardier, as well as the city of Toronto. We are working to put together a very competitive

response to the offer that is being made available to us.

This follows hard on the heels of the successes we've enjoyed in the auto sector. I can recall a time when the leader of the NDP said that we should not be

putting together a strategic auto investment fund. We have secured a $1-billion investment so far on the part of Ford, which will secure over 1,000 jobs and create thousands more in the spinoff

sectors. So we have a good foundation of success on which to build when it comes to these matters, and we look forward to doing more.

Mr Hampton: I didn't hear a plan, and as so often with this Premier, he's wrong on the auto investment, but I think people know how often

you're wrong, Premier. The answer you just gave is the same answer your government gave three weeks ago when Ms Horwath, our member for Hamilton East, asked the question. You replied, "Oh, we're

talking to Bombardier." A week ago, when I asked the question, your response again was, "Oh, we're talking to Bombardier." Everybody else is doing more than talking. Toronto has a plan. It's clear

that the government of Quebec has a plan. They're not asking for a subsidy. They're not asking for a tax grant. They're asking for an investment. What is your government's plan? Merely talking to

someone isn't a plan, Premier.

Hon Mr McGuinty: Painful as it may be, I'm going to remind the leader of the NDP about their economic record. When they were in government,

2,000 people joined the ranks of the unemployed every single month. I'm pleased and proud to report that in our very first year, this economy, under this government, has created 116,000 new jobs.

To put that in some perspective, that is almost three times as many jobs as were created by the Tories in their first year. We believe we have a good foundation on which to build when it comes to

creating more jobs and to working with the private sector, where it makes sense to do so, and we will continue to do so.

Mr Hampton: This is about jobs at de Havilland and Bombardier. I can say that I'm quite proud to have been part of a government that

repositioned de Havilland so jobs were sustained there. We did more than talk; we had a plan. The question is, is your plan an equity investment? Is your plan a loan guarantee? Is your plan export

credits? What is your plan? It's 2,500 assembly jobs, 2,500 supplier jobs, $250 billion of new economic activity: It looks as if you and the Liberals in Ottawa are prepared to simply concede all

this to Montreal. What is your plan, Premier? Talk won't do it.

Hon Mr McGuinty: Mr Speaker, to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Hon Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): Clearly the leader of the third party is nothing but pessimistic these days.

He has no confidence in Ontario, and furthermore no confidence in our workers. Time and again, I've been standing up in this House and reminding the leader of the third party that our workers are

some of the best in the world. That's why people come to Ontario to invest. They've done so in the auto sector. Ford showed Ontario a huge vote of confidence by investing right here in their

Oakville plant.

I have every confidence, and I think the people of this province have every confidence, in our workers. That is why, when we put forward our bid to have the

Bombardier C series come to Ontario -- de Havilland -- we will be successful. I assure the member of that.

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mr Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): My question is for the Premier. My question relates to an industry that, in fact, has been successful in

Ontario. We know that tax credits can make a difference. The tax credit that was introduced in the May 1996 budget by Mr Eves as Minister of Finance has resulted in a thriving film industry in the

province of Ontario -- at least, thriving until the last couple of years.

Premier, these words should be familiar to you: "We will boost the Ontario film and television tax credit from 20% to 33%. We will introduce a new feature film

component of the Ontario film and television tax credit, and increase this credit from 20% to 40% of eligible expenditures." Those are the commitments you made on page 13 of your platform about 18

months ago.

You've now been the government for 14 months. There's a crisis in the industry in Ontario. When will you fulfill these two commitments?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Finance.

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): I'm glad to see that my friend from Whitby-Ajax is a Johnny-come-lately to the film industry in this

province. We have a very strong industry in this province. It has been the subject of a number of pressures, including the new value of the Canadian dollar. I want to tell him --

Interjection.

Hon Mr Sorbara: -- and my dear friend from Toronto-Danforth, who is such a strong advocate, and I admire her for that -- I recently had a very

productive meeting with representatives of the industry. They put a very strong case in front of me and in front of our officials. We agreed that we would take some time, each side, to review a

variety of options and that I would respond to the industry with the urgency that the matter requires.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. The member from Toronto-Danforth, please.

Mr Flaherty: Minister, this is a crisis. You said you'd have a meeting; you had a meeting. You put out a press release; your press release

said you were listening. The time for listening is up; the time for action is now.

You read in the paper today: If things are so great in the industry in Ontario, Minister, why is Saskatchewan becoming the new Hollywood North? Why is the city

of Toronto, in their film office, saying that there's a 22% decline in the value of major production spending in the city of Toronto?

It's Christmastime. The Premier says he wants people to be happy at Christmas. There are thousands and thousands of people working -- usually small businesses

-- in the film industry in the province of Ontario, mainly in the greater Toronto area. What do you have to say to them about your promises at Christmastime? What do they say to their families this

Christmas, Minister, when you say that you're listening, and you had a meeting? When's the action going to happen?

Hon Mr Sorbara: I think one of the things that they're saying in the film industry is that they are very glad, 14 months ago, that our party

won the last election, because we are the only party that referenced that industry and its importance not just to the city of Toronto but to the entire province.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): You're breaking your promise.

Hon Mr Sorbara: We made a commitment in the campaign and, I'll tell my friend from Toronto-Danforth, we are fully cognizant of that. I want to

tell you and the members opposite and, much more important than that, the industry itself, that we are determined to see that industry continue to grow and thrive, and we will take the steps

necessary to make that happen.

CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): A question to the Minister of Correctional Services: Dickson Motsewetsho has been convicted of sexual

assault and credit card fraud. He's currently doing time in the Don Jail, and while he's doing his time at the Don Jail, he's running a criminal scam from his jail cell, ripping off women looking

for work and bilking companies for thousands of dollars. You're supposed to be protecting society from people like Motsewetsho; instead, you're paying their room and board while he's carrying on

his criminal enterprise. Minister, why are you letting criminals break the law even after they're locked up?

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I'm sure the member will appreciate that this is a situation I'm

not exactly pleased with. We are conducting an investigation. We've called in the police. Ministry officials are looking into it. The deputy minister is conducting an investigation.

But you should know that, notwithstanding that these people are in prison, they have the right to use the telephone and we have to be able to monitor what they

do -- but only if we suspect that something has happened. Now that we know this has happened, we are carrying out what we have to do, and that is, conduct an investigation. We've called in the

police, and we'll make sure it is corrected.

Mr Kormos: Minister, you've now been precisely that, the minister, for a year-plus. These are your jail cells, and when it comes to crooks

running crime rings from your jail cells, you shrug like Alfred E. Newman and say, "What? Me worry?" You pass the buck on to corrections officials. You say somehow you haven't got the legislation.

I suggest you read the amendments from 2002 and the regulations that were passed pursuant to them.

You see, in your jails, Ontario's citizens are paying the overhead costs for this con's criminal empire. Our jail cells under your watch are being used as call

centres for crooks. What are you doing to ensure that other criminals aren't running similar criminal call centres and scams from their jail cells, standing at that pay phone for hours at a time,

making long-distance and collect calls? What are you doing to ensure that that isn't happening in other jail cells, to other victims, right here and now, under your watch?

Hon Mr Kwinter: We have a process and equipment in place to monitor the calls of prisoners if there is suspicion or evidence that they are

doing illegal acts. Having said that, we do not monitor their calls, because they have the right to privacy. We make sure that that is done. We make sure that there are limitations on their calls.

And when we find out that something is happening, we bring it to the attention of the officials and the police. That's what we're doing now, and we will make sure that is dealt with.

GO TRANSIT

Mr Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): My question is to the Minister of Transportation. On November 29 of this year, you made an

announcement regarding an investment that your ministry would be making for a new Kennedy GO Transit station in my riding of Scarborough Southwest. As of now, there's no convenient way for area

residents to transfer from the GO Transit system to the TTC, which makes public transit difficult to use.

As a former city councillor, I found this difficult, over many years, since 1990, as the former Tory government and the former NDP government really did

nothing to deal with this issue. I believe that in the past 15 months, we've done more than the previous governments did in the past 15 years.

Minister, my question is fairly straightforward: What benefits will this new Kennedy GO station provide to the Scarborough community, and when can they expect

the new station to finally open?

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): First of all, I want to thank my colleague from Scarborough for asking this question. We

are making a $2.9-million investment in this GO station in Scarborough, and it will open in mid-2005. This new GO station will connect directly to the TTC, along the Bloor-Danforth and the

Scarborough rapid transit lines. That will make it easier for people to transfer between the TTC and GO Transit. As we continue to make these investments, our main objective is to make sure that

the ridership on public transit grows.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary?

Mrs Linda Jeffrey (Brampton Centre): Brampton is one of the fastest-growing cities in Canada, whose population has swelled from 268,000 in

1996 to more than 380,000 people today. Every year, an increasing number of residents choose to travel by GO to get to work and school every day. The Brampton community has come to rely on GO

Transit, which helps reduce gridlock on our roads and is safer for our environment. For many residents, GO Transit is the key to their livelihood.

But despite the fact that both the downtown and Bramalea GO Transit stations have undergone recent expansions to their parking lots, the need for more parking

spaces is clearly evident. Some 3.3 million commuters use the Georgetown line annually, and they expect reliable, convenient transportation. If we don't make it easy for people to use public

transit, they're going to return to their cars. Minister, can you tell the commuters of Brampton when they can expect a new GO station?

Hon Mr Takhar: I want to thank the member for asking this question. I know that both the member from Brampton Centre and the member from

Brampton West-Mississauga have been working hard to make sure this new GO station opens in Brampton. This will be the third new GO station in Brampton, and it will open in January 2005. This GO

station will have about 670 parking spaces, a drop-off area and a bus bay for both GO and local transit buses. Again, we want to make sure that public transit ridership grows and that the city of

Brampton is well served.

HYDRO GENERATION

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): My question is to the Premier. I want to come back to another one of your broken promises. You made a

solemn commitment and gave your word to Ontario voters that you would close down all five of our coal-fired generating stations by 2007. You said, and I quote, "I am committed to doing it" -- in

your words -- "come hell or high water." Now your energy minister is flip-flopping and backtracking and waffling on your promise. Your new plan to keep our five coal-fired generating stations open

is posing several questions. Premier, how much will your new plan to keep these five coal-fired electricity plants open cost Ontario taxpayers? How much maintenance, how much fuel, how much staff

will be required under this scheme where Ontario taxpayers are going to be stuck paying for your broken promise? Can you tell us that?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Minister of Energy, Speaker.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): This government remains committed to replacing coal-fired generation and will

identify the cleanest, most affordable potential sources in Ontario as a replacement for that coal. If the opposition spent as much time trying to participate in finding solutions to this as they

do in advocating more of the same for the polluters, voting against increased fines for polluters, voting against cleaning up our air -- this government remains committed. To that end, we announced

an 80% increase in the wind capacity in Canada just last month to improve the quality of our air. We believe we've set aggressive targets for --

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): First, I'm going to ask the Minister of Energy to direct his answer to the Speaker, and I'm going to ask the

member for Nepean-Carleton to watch his words, because he has used some very unparliamentary language too.

Hon Mr Duncan: We remain committed, and I'll remind the member opposite that it was his government's policies that failed this province on the

energy file. We have spent the first year cleaning up the messes that member and his predecessors as energy minister committed. We believe in cleaner air. We're working toward that goal.

The Speaker: The member for Parry Sound-Muskoka, supplementary.

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): Premier, I'm forced to ask this question on behalf of the people of Thunder Bay-Atikokan because of the

failure of the local MPPs to speak up for their constituents. You promised to close the coal-fired electricity generating stations by 2007. In the northwest, the Thunder Bay and Atikokan plants

produce some 525 megawatts of power, about half of the area's current usage. Closing these plants will result in higher energy costs and massive job loss.

Premier, there aren't sufficient transmission lines into the northwest to bring in the replacement power. It could take you up to 10 years to build a new line

to connect to Manitoba. Can you explain to the people of Thunder Bay-Atikokan how you plan to replace the 525 megawatts of power by 2007?

Hon Mr Duncan: The members from Thunder Bay had me up to Atikokan within a month of assuming office. Let's get some facts on the table. Not

only can we replace the coal at Atikokan, but there's a good chance we can replace it with clean gas. If you want to do something for tourism in northern Ontario, you want to slow down the

advancement of smog days to places like Algonquin Park and Sault Ste Marie.

Atikokan and Thunder Bay can be replaced and the jobs can be maintained. I should tell the member opposite that a line can be run from Manitoba. That's one

option we're looking at. There are a lot of options we're looking at that will produce cleaner air, that will produce a better quality of life. We'll make sure that, unlike the member opposite, who

wants to decrease tourism in northern Ontario, we maintain the pristine beauty of the air and lakes in that area of the province to ensure they stay for future generations.

The Speaker: New question.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question for the Minister of Energy. Portlands Energy Centre, an OPG-affiliated gas plant

project, was supposed to have been cogeneration. It promoted itself to the community to be a plant that would both generate electricity and use the steam as a source of heat for downtown buildings.

But at a recent public meeting, PEC announced that it was abandoning cogen as well as the solar panels on the roof. Their reason? It would hurt the bottom line.

Minister, don't you think it's time that electricity generators have to consider conservation and efficiency as part of the bottom line, and will you walk the

walk on efficiency and require that PEC, if it's built, be a cogeneration plant?

Hon Mr Duncan: Our government remains committed to ensuring that Ontario has an adequate supply of clean, renewable energy.

First of all, the project has not started; it hasn't been approved under an RFP. Secondly we've had representations made to us on behalf of the city of Toronto

and others about that. We look at them carefully. There are media reports that suggest that Portlands may bid into the RFP; we don't know. That closes tomorrow.

The long and the short of it is, this government has taken a number of steps to promote conservation. We have just passed a bill, which you voted against,

creating the conservation bureau and a chief conservation officer in Ontario.

We've signed, under the Energy Efficiency Act, nine new appliances into law after becoming the government. We remain committed to cleaner, more affordable

electricity for all the people of this province, and we remain committed to the principles enunciated in Bill 100 around conservation.

Ms Churley: Minister, I asked you about Portlands and the fact that the solar panels aren't going to be built and they're not going to make it

cogen any more. Sustainable energy experts like the Pembina Institute, Ralph Torrie and all of those have laid out how natural gas-fired plants [inaudible] to be cogen so that they are as

efficient as possible. If you resort to using fuels, you need to get the maximum use out of them.

Speaking of Bill 100 -- and yes, despite the NDP's efforts to have it amended so Ontario's energy security is not jeopardized by the pursuit of profit, because

that's what's happening here -- in it, you awarded yourself broad powers in determining what types of proposals the Ontario Power Authority is to put forward.

You can require, under this bill, cogeneration to be in the mix. You can require energy projects to reach conservation goals. Will you do that if this plant is

built?

Hon Mr Duncan: This question is a little bit rich, coming from a party that doesn't want us to close Lakeview and clean up the coal plants.

They've told us to back down on that agenda. This is a little bit rich, coming from a party that, when it was the government of this province, cancelled every conservation project that the old

Ontario Hydro had undertaken. It did that in 1993. This from a party that raised energy prices 43% before they slapped an ineffective price cap on them.

I'll remind the member opposite yet again, this was the party that cancelled the Conawapa deal. Had it gone through at the time, we would now have 1,500

megawatts of clean, renewable electricity available to our sector today.

The Portlands project: Mayor Miller has expressed concerns about the lack of cogeneration. It's the belief of this government that cogeneration and solar

should be part of all projects going forward.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr David Orazietti (Sault Ste Marie): My question is for the Minister of Health. Health care, as we all know, is a top issue for Ontarians and

a priority for our government. Residents in my riding of Sault Ste Marie told me during the election, and continue to tell me, about their family members being diagnosed with cancer and having to

wait weeks and months for lifesaving treatment, or how their frail parents are struggling to walk because they're waiting for a hip or knee replacement. Minister, these types of comments are not

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. I'm just trying to get the discussion between the member from Eglinton-Lawrence and the member from

Toronto-Danforth to --

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): It's his fault.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. If the member from Sault Ste Marie would like to ask his own party a question, at least they can be quiet.

Mr Orazietti: Minister, these types of comments are not only being expressed in my riding but also by the people of Ontario. Today you

announced that our government will reduce wait times, a move that is desperately needed in this province. My constituents, like all Ontarians, want to know how many people will benefit from today's

announcement on reduced wait times?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Earlier today, at the Queensway site of the Trillium Health Centre in the great

riding of Etobicoke-Lakeshore, I had the opportunity to announce our government's plan for the balance of this fiscal year, 2004-05, which is 5,380 additional procedures, including 2,000 additional

cataract surgeries, 1,703 additional cancer surgeries and 1,680 additional hip and knee surgeries. In fact --

Interjections.

The Speaker: The member from Simcoe-Grey.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. The next time we have any interruption, I'm going to move to the next question.

Member from Simcoe-Grey, would you come to order, please.

Hon Mr Smitherman: Included among the impressive list of hospitals that will be asked to play a greater role is the Sault Area Hospital, with

24 additional hips and knees and 25 additional cataract surgeries.

Here's what Hilary Short, the president of the Ontario Hospital Association, had to say today: "This new funding will allow Ontario hospitals to perform 5,380

more procedures between now and March, and will" --

The Speaker: Supplementary.

Mr Orazietti: I'm glad our government is taking the necessary steps to ensure that those who are waiting for surgery and treatment will be

getting the help they need when they need it. We must ensure that as many Ontarians as possible are served by today's announcement. Minister, what is being done to ensure that today's funding will

go directly to those people who are on Ontario's waiting lists?

Hon Mr Smitherman: Each hospital and surgeons within hospitals play an important role in holding on to these lists. The fact of the matter is

that, in our efforts to build a wait time registry, we seek to consolidate that information. We have worked with Ontario hospitals to essentially ask for requests for proposals to determine who has

additional capacity for volumes and to give us a stronger sense of the needs in those local communities. We've sought to distribute resources in a fashion which closely resembled the greatest needs

in the province of Ontario.

I want to repeat a comment that I had a chance to make earlier. While 45 hospitals are asked to play this role through the balance of this fiscal year, as we

move forward to 2005-06 and look for additional volumes for our wait times, we look forward to an even greater participation from a broader range of hospitals in the province. I can assure

honourable members that a dollar sent to a hospital to address a particular wait-time challenge through the accountability measures we've enacted will most assuredly be spent in that very direct

area.

HIGHWAY 11

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): My question is for the Premier. I recently received a letter and a newspaper clipping marking the

anniversary of the tragic death of a family in an accident on Highway 11 south of North Bay, and I quote from that letter:

"A year has passed since this young family was obliterated on Highway 11. At the time, I wrote to Premier Dalton McGuinty, regarding the urgency of completing

the 41 miles of four-laning. He, of course, referred my letter to the Minister of Transportation, who wrote some sort of bafflegab back re the plan for refurbishing all Ontario's highways according

to a `timetable.'"

Premier, can you give me a date by which the remaining 41 kilometres of four-laning will be completed between North Bay and Huntsville?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Transportation.

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): I'm very pleased to answer this question. Our government really recognizes the importance

of Highway 11. We have already budgeted about $30 million for this highway, and we have already opened 10 kilometres of the new four-lane highway between Trout Creek and South River. We are

continuing to four-lane six kilometres between Katrine and Emsdale and expect it to be open next fall.

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): That was my note.

Hon Mr Takhar: You didn't write any notes. There were no notes left when you left.

The Speaker: Supplementary.

Mr Miller: Premier, this is an important safety issue, and the people of Nipissing and Parry Sound-Muskoka want a straight answer. Bob and

Deanne Hillis of North Bay were forced to call on a member of the opposition to demand action from your government because their member for Nipissing is, to quote from their letter, "merely a

spouter of the party line." Their letter continues: "I am asking you if you would once again rise in the Legislature and attempt to get some kind of assurance from these wafflers. With the

Christmas season forthcoming, thousands will be travelling that dangerous stretch of highway, our own children included in that number."

I didn't hear an answer as to when the plan would be completed. What is your concrete plan and final completion date for the four-laning of Highway 11 from

North Bay to Huntsville?

Interjections.

The Speaker: Minister of Health, would you come to order, please.

Hon Mr Takhar: As I stated, we have already budgeted $30 million for this project. The environmental studies are complete and we are moving

ahead with this project. I can understand that those people are getting impatient because they didn't get any action from the previous government in eight and a half years, except maybe writing

notes, which they took away with them.

OHIP OFFICE

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): Minister, more than 800,000 people live in the downtown core but have no OHIP office to go to. Taking

more than one day off work to stand in long lineups at OHIP offices located in distant parts of the city hurts workers most particularly, but it hurts the economy as well. When will you provide an

OHIP office for downtown Toronto?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I want to thank the honourable member for this question, as one who represents

the downtown. Many of us have had constituents challenged by the circumstances that occurred after the OHIP office in Toronto General was shut down during SARS. We had worked hard to negotiate a

new lease. That, at the end of the day, was rejected, but I can confirm for the honourable member that we have secured new space at 777 Bay Street and an OHIP office will be reopening in downtown

Toronto within a few months.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. I think you heard the minister. Supplementary.

Mr Marchese: I do want to say thank you to the minister. It has taken a while. We've both talked about this for a while. We were hoping that

the new office would be up and running by January. What you're saying is that it won't be by January but in a couple of months -- maybe February, maybe March -- it might be open. Is that what

you're saying? Not January but maybe February, maybe March?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I agree with the honourable member that this has taken longer than anyone would have preferred. Access to these important

offices is quite crucial. They're working on the buildup. My expectation is that this office would be open before the end of the fiscal year, which of course is March 2005, but as soon as it can

possibly be done.

CONSERVATION

Ms Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Last Friday you and the Minister of Finance announced

enhancements to the managed forest tax incentive program and the conservation land tax incentive program. Protecting our environment is a key priority for the McGuinty government, and an integral

part of ensuring a healthy and sustainable environment is the concept of conservation.

MFTIP currently includes more than 10,000 properties totalling over 1.75 million acres in our province. Participants range from Essex county landowners looking

after fragmented natural landscapes to owners of shore land in Muskoka to large forest companies in northern Ontario contributing to our very important northern economy. Minister, can you tell us

how the enhancements to the managed forest tax incentive program and the conservation land tax incentive program promote conservation in Ontario?

Hon David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): I'd like to acknowledge the hard work of the member for Nipissing and to say she's the best

member that Nipissing has ever sent since her father represented that proud riding.

These two tax incentive programs for conservation lands and also for managed forests are very important tools, because they're tax incentives for the owners of

those lands to basically manage them in sustainable ways. What we've done is to move beyond doing this for private owners, but for the conservation land tax also to allow conservation authorities

and non-government organizations that own these conservation lands to benefit from this, so that they can encourage them to create more wealth so they can preserve more of that land for the

preservation of green space in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary, member from Guelph-Wellington.

Mrs Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): Incidentally, the member from Nipissing would like it noted that Mike Harris was not her father and that

Dick Smith was her father.

Minister, as you know, green space is at a premium in many areas of southern Ontario. The government's greenbelt plan will protect green space and contain

urban sprawl in the Golden Horseshoe area of southern Ontario. However, my riding lies mainly outside the greenbelt. The Grand River Conservation Authority has identified the maintenance and

replanting of forest lands as an important environmental issue in our area. Will the enhancements to the managed tax incentive program and the conservation land tax incentive program do anything to

promote the greening of southern Ontario outside the greenbelt?

Hon Mr Ramsay: This is a great question, because exactly what these two programs do is aid the government and private landowners in regreening

southern Ontario. That's a commitment I've made as Minister of Natural Resources. We've got to be doing that in progressing through the next year and making sure we regreen southern Ontario. These

two tools, which we're going to make better with greater incentives, are going to allow our landowners to better preserve and conserve their land. We do that in partnership, because we know that

together we have to preserve our land in the greenbelt and beyond for all of this province.

HYDRO GENERATION

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is to the Minister of Energy. I believe he is available. In the meantime, I'm absolutely sure he's

listening. I'll put the question, or do you want me to stand the question down?

Interjection: Here he comes.

Mr O'Toole: Minister, I've been listening to your responses on the issue of generation and supply capacity over the last few days. I was

shocked today by some of the new and twisting information you're putting on the record. Really, the information with which you responded to the question from the member from Parry Sound-Muskoka

today -- I understand you announced there would be a new pipeline in northwestern Ontario for natural gas.

Minister, you would know that natural gas pipelines are regulated federally by the National Energy Board. Certainly you've been in contact with them, because

you know the plants in Thunder Bay and Atikokan aren't serviced by a natural gas pipeline. Could you clarify for the House today what you meant by saying that you are going to keep the Atikokan and

Thunder Bay plants open by providing a supply of natural gas? Is this just another flip-flop and another broken promise or more confusion in the energy generation sector? Answer one of the

questions, please.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): If the member took any time in northern Ontario, which obviously he hasn't,

as have the members from Thunder Bay, he'd know that a natural gas pipeline is in very close proximity to Atikokan. He doesn't know that. The members from Thunder Bay know that, and I know it.

What I said, to be very clear, is that there are a number of options available with respect to all the coal plants. One of them is the conversion to natural

gas. The member obviously hasn't been to Atikokan, nor has the member who raised the question originally. The site at Atikokan is actually built for double the capacity it has right now. There's

enough land. It's been laid out properly. It's been zoned. I congratulate the members from Thunder Bay for making sure the government, the Premier and the minister are aware of that. We remain

committed to closing and replacing coal-fired generation with cleaner, better sources, so that we can clean up our airshed.

I would ask the member -- I would urge him -- to go up north and have a look at those natural gas pipelines and all the options that are available, instead of

defending the big polluters.

Mr O'Toole: The story gets more convoluted every day. I think he's made it clear for everyone today: They have no plan on the issue of

electricity generation. The issue for northwestern Ontario is that it's clear now from what he said that they have every intention of keeping the Atikokan and Thunder Bay plants open. Whatever the

source of fuel is not the debate. They're talking about it; they're going do it.

The issue here, Minister, is that this is just another Liberal broken promise. During the election, you said you were going to close the coal plants -- you

promised -- by 2007. Now what you're saying is you've looked at Atikokan, there's more capacity there and you're going to bring that on-line, and you're going to keep Thunder Bay open. Just be

honest with the people of Ontario: Tell us what your plan is to replace the lost generation from the other coal plants that you intend to close.

Hon Mr Duncan: The only thing convoluted and muddled is that member's question. There are a number of options available to convert and get rid

of the coal at Atikokan and at Thunder Bay.

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): They want to protect the polluters.

Hon Mr Duncan: We don't want to protect the polluters any more. The member for St Catharines is absolutely right. We want to set an example as

a government. It's our corporation that owns that coal-fired generation, and we've made a commitment to replace it with cleaner, more efficient power by 2007. Our undertakings are aggressive -- we

acknowledge that -- but this government believes that we can clean up the air. We can set an example for the Americans.

The other thing the Tories forget to tell people is that in our first year of office, dependence on coal has gone from 25% to 17%.

Finally, the member opposite raises the question about price. Is the member aware that the price of coal has more than doubled in the last year and a half? Is

the member aware of the cost to our health care system of childhood asthma? I doubt it. He ought to get his facts straight.

BUS TRANSPORTATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I have a question for the Minister of Transportation. You may know that in northwestern Ontario the

distance between communities is very great. You may also know that a lot of people in northwestern Ontario, when they have to see a medical specialist, are in fact referred to specialists in the

city of Winnipeg. Otherwise, they would have to fly all the way to Toronto.

Many people have to take the bus. Currently, Greyhound lines, whether they be Greyhound or Grey Goose, allow people from communities like Dryden, Kenora, Fort

Frances and Rainy River to take the bus into Winnipeg in the morning, see a medical specialist and then return from Winnipeg in the evening, so that they're able to go in one day and come back in

the evening -- no hotel bills, nothing like that.

Greyhound has announced that they're going to cut those bus schedules; they're going to do away with them. Minister, are you prepared to do anything to stop

Greyhound Lines from simply cutting these bus schedules and putting literally thousands of people in a very difficult situation in terms of accessing medical specialists, getting to a hospital,

having surgery and doing many things that are taken for granted in southern Ontario?

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): I appreciate the question that the member has asked. It is important for us to make sure

that all our communities stay connected and that people have modes of transportation available to them to meet the needs that they have in the northern communities. So I will work with GO Transit

to make sure we develop some sort of plan and address some of those issues that you are raising. Although Greyhound is not under our control and it's a privately owned corporation, I will take that

issue up with the GO Transit people and see what we can do about it.

Mr Hampton: I appreciate your offer of GO Transit, but GO Transit doesn't operate anywhere in northern Ontario, certainly not in northwestern

Ontario. The crux of the problem is this: For many of these people, many of these communities, there is no alternative transportation, so there's no rail, no aircraft or flying; it's strictly

bus.

I can tell you what the government of Manitoba is prepared to do. They have required Greyhound to conduct public hearings in all of the potentially affected

communities in Manitoba before they will allow Greyhound to make any such move to cut bus routes. Will you do the same thing in northwestern Ontario? Will you require Greyhound Lines to submit to

public hearings in communities like Dryden, Kenora, Fort Frances and Rainy River before you allow them to cut any bus routes and inconvenience literally thousands of people?

Hon Mr Takhar: What I'm prepared to do is this: I'm going to work with my colleague the Minister of Northern Development and Mines and make

sure that we can come up with some sort of alternative to address the needs of northern Ontarians. I'm sure that we can develop some sort of a plan with the ONTC to address some of the issues that

the member has raised.

PETITIONS

HIGHWAY 400 RAMP

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and I shall read it.

"I, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario the following:

"In order to ensure the future economic stability of the town of Pointe au Baril, the undersigned petition the Legislative Assembly and the Ministry of

Transportation to install two access ramps into Pointe au Baril from the proposed Highway 400, one ramp on the north side and the other on the south. This would provide easy access to our town and

allow travellers to continue on their way without inconvenience."

I'll affix my signature to this petition, which has about 160 names on it.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): Speaker, I have thousands of names on these petitions. I wanted you to know that. It reads:

"Whereas,

"Elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care they

need;

"Those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already overburdened family

physician offices and emergency departments;

"Elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200 million in other

health care costs; and

"There was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned" -- thousands of people -- "petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial

budget and maintain OHIP coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

Because I support it, I'm signing this petition.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): I am presenting these petitions on behalf of the Minister of Natural Resources.

"The Minister of Health and Long-Term Care and the provincial Liberal government have approached all Ontario hospitals, advising them that they will no longer

provide deficit financing and will therefore have to reduce operating deficits or have funding reduced;

"These cuts will affect 14 full-time and 19 part-time jobs and will impact approximately 5,400 patients. This funding reduction will have similar impacts in

all area hospitals, including Kirkland Lake and Englehart;

"Therefore, as citizens concerned about these issues, we petition the Liberal government and Premier Dalton McGuinty to reinstate funding levels to local

hospitals to avoid the detrimental impacts that will be inevitably caused by these reductions."

PIT BULLS

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to present another 4,300 signatures, to bring the total to almost 12,000 signatures from the Golden

Horseshoe American Pit Bull Terrier Club. It reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas aggressive dogs are found among any breed or crossbreed; and

"Breed-specific legislation and breed bans are not effective solutions to the problem of dog attacks; and

"The problem of dog attacks is best dealt with through a comprehensive program of education, training, and legislation encouraging responsible ownership of all

breeds;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to refrain from enacting provincial animal control legislation that is breed specific, and

instead implement a comprehensive bite prevention strategy that encourages responsible ownership of all breeds."

In support, I put my signature too.

AUTISM TREATMENT

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition signed by over 4,062 people from London. The petition was collected by Cynthia Boufford,

whose son has autism. It reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly,

"I support the resolution to ensure all people with autism receive appropriate services for their disability through the health care system.

"Autism is a medical condition and, as such, these citizens of Ontario should not be deprived of medically necessary treatment based on their age or the

severity of their autism.

"Waiting lists for intensive behavioural intervention providing less than the optimum number of hours of treatment, penalizing families for advocating and

discharging children just because they turn six are human rights violations and are, quite frankly, just morally wrong.

"Funding autism treatment through the health care system would ensure that service providers follow clearly established medical ethics and regulations.

"Discharges from the intensive behavioural program are occurring daily as children turn six years old. These children may regress, and then the money invested

in their therapy programs will have been wasted.

"Act now, because this is an emergency for these families and their children.

"Premier McGuinty, please take immediate action to ensure not one more child or adult with autism is deprived of medically necessary treatment which will

enable them to reach their full potential.

"As a citizen of Ontario, I will not allow this injustice to continue."

As I said earlier, I have over 4,062 petitions. That's in addition to the over 7,000 that I introduced on behalf of this family earlier this spring.

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

Mr Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I