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October 20, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Oct-20 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 20 October 2004 Mercredi 20 octobre 2004

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

CHILDREN'S BREAKFAST CLUB

GREENBELT LEGISLATION

LONG-TERM CARE

CYSTIC FIBROSIS

CHICKEN FARMERS

SENIOR CITIZENS

HOME CARE

HEALTH CARE

VISITORS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

KIDS FIRST LICENCES ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LES PLAQUES D'IMMATRICULATION

EN FAVEUR DES ENFANTS

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY AMENDMENT ACT (WORKPLACE VIOLENCE AND WORKPLACE HARASSMENT), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR

LA SANTÉ ET LA SÉCURITÉ AU TRAVAIL

(VIOLENCE ET HARCÈLEMENT AU

TRAVAIL)

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

BIODIVERSITY

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY /

STRATÉGIE VISANT

DES ÉCOLES PLUS SAINES

BIODIVERSITY

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY

BIODIVERSITY

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

HOSPITAL FUNDING

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

WATER EXTRACTION

NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

PETITIONS

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

HEALTH CARE SERVICES

GO TRANSIT SERVICES

GASOLINE PRICES

MINIMUM WAGE

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

EYE EXAMINATIONS

TTC RIGHT-OF-WAY

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

OPPOSITION DAY

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY /

INDUSTRIE AGRICOLE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): Each year, we are reminded to thank farmers. In my riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka, farming makes a

significant contribution to the local economy, employing about 1,250 people, with farm receipts in excess of $43.6 million.

Last week, I attended the annual general meeting of the East Nipissing/Parry Sound/Muskoka Federation of Agriculture. Their message to me was pretty bleak. The

BSE situation continues to be desperate despite the recent funding announcement by the McGuinty government. According to farmers in my region, this new funding will only help large operations, not

the family farm.

Farmers are having a tough time getting the ear of the McGuinty government. The Ontario Federation of Agriculture went so far as to hire a well-known lobbyist to

ask what the association should be doing to get this government's attention. The consultant advised that this government is being run centrally by the Premier's office and that the Premier has a

huge staff filled with the wrong people.

The evidence speaks for itself. The 2004 budget saw a 20% cut in funding for the Ministry of Agriculture and Food. Then the government announced that it was

suspending the municipal outlet drainage program. Farmers are also concerned with how their farms are affected by the Greenbelt Task Force report.

Today, on our first opposition day, we are highlighting the government's failure to support farmers in Ontario. It's about time this government fulfilled its

responsibility to make the Ministry of Agriculture and Food a lead ministry and showed some leadership by providing the support for farmers that it promised before it was elected.

CHILDREN'S BREAKFAST CLUB

Mr Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): I rise in the House today to acknowledge the establishment of two new chapters of the Children's Breakfast

Club in my riding of Mississauga East.

The Mississauga breakfast clubs opened their doors exactly two weeks ago today, with one location at Bloor and Dixie and the other at Glenhaven public school.

After only two weeks, the locations are already serving breakfast to over 80 children in the area. These numbers are expected to continue to grow, doubling or even tripling over the coming

year.

The Children's Breakfast Club is a non-profit organization founded on the belief that every child has a right to a nutritious breakfast. In addition to receiving

a nutritious meal, children who are part of the program are given the opportunity to participate in a variety of educational activities, including field trips, participating in sports tournaments,

and joint outings with other breakfast clubs or programs.

Programs such as the Children's Breakfast Club are assisting our government in its efforts to promote a healthy diet. The breakfast program educates both

children and their parents about the importance of a nutritious breakfast, and assists those needy families who could not otherwise provide this essential meal for their children.

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank staff and volunteers at the Mississauga breakfast clubs on behalf of my constituents in Mississauga East. Their

generosity, hard work and tireless efforts are making all the difference in the lives of children in need in my riding.

GREENBELT LEGISLATION

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): The Liberal government claims to care for the protection of green spaces, but it has shown through its actions

that it has no clue how farmland is to fit into its greenbelt or Toronto growth plans. In fact, when it first defined its greenbelt study area, it divided the Holland Marsh in half: half in, half

out.

Farmers in my riding tell me they are confused about what the government is trying to do. The Ontario Federation of Agriculture said that farmers are "perplexed

with the greenbelt proposal and its long-term impacts," and that the proposal "gives no indication of how it will protect agricultural land other than utilizing a land freeze."

Farmers in the frozen area are already feeling the effects of the greenbelt bill. The OFA has heard from farmers who are having trouble borrowing money from

lenders due to the fuzziness of the government's proposals. Lenders are telling farmers that their land is worth less.

Nothing in the government's greenbelt proposals does anything to encourage farmers in my riding to continue farming. Local plans to promote farming have been

ignored by this government. Federations of agriculture and municipalities in the GTA worked together in 2003 to produce a GTA agricultural action plan. This locally driven plan would promote

farming in the GTA, help preserve urban-rural boundaries and allow decisions to be made at a local level.

It's time for this government to start listening.

LONG-TERM CARE

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I want to focus again on the crisis facing alternate level of care patients in our community.

Recently the Ministry of Health agreed to a request from the Sudbury Regional Hospital to discharge and place patients in long-term-care facilities outside our

region. This is because there are no long-term-care beds available in our community. As a result, patients could be placed far from home, in Espanola, on Manitoulin Island and even in Chapleau.

This is very distressing to family members, who have advised my office that they already go to the hospital daily to provide additional care to their loved ones.

Clearly, they won't be able to do that if their loved ones are so far away. They are concerned about the mental, physical and emotional well-being of their family members as a result.

When Timmins faced a similar crisis this summer, the Minister of Health funded temporary beds at the Timmins hospital and in long-term-care facilities in the

community. The latter option makes good sense in Sudbury because a redevelopment project at our home for the aged means that some 30 temporary beds could be created at Pioneer Manor for the next

six months. What is required is funding from the ministry to support the beds.

In the longer term, the minister must also allocate new, permanent long-term-care beds in Sudbury. Again, Pioneer Manor might be considered in this regard. With

the redevelopment, there remain existing C and B beds which could be converted to A beds at a cost that would be far less than building new A beds from scratch.

The minister has said he hopes to have a solution to the immediate crisis by the end of the week. This must occur. Patients and their families need to know they

won't be placed in long-term-care facilities far from home, and work must be done on a long-term solution to ensure we don't have a crisis like this again.

CYSTIC FIBROSIS

Mr John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): Mr Speaker, 2004 marks the 15th anniversary of the historic discovery of the gene responsible for cystic

fibrosis, the first human genetic disorder identified in the human genome. CF, regrettably, is still the leading genetic cause of death in Canadian children. Canadians have been at the forefront of

the fight to find a cure or control for cystic fibrosis for the last 40 years.

Leading this fight is the Canadian Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. It is the world's second-largest non-governmental granting agency in the field of CF research.

Today I would like to recognize the work of three Ontario researchers: Doctors Lap-Chee Tsui, Jack Riordan and Francis Collins. With the support of Toronto's

Hospital for Sick Children, these researchers are credited with the discovery of the gene responsible for CF. Continuing with this progress, last May, Dr Richard Boucher, from the University of

North Carolina, reported the successful creation of a mouse with lung pathology similar to human cystic fibrosis. With these developments in research and treatment, young Canadians with CF are

living longer, healthier lives.

Finally, I would like to invite all members to join me, my colleagues from Beaches-East York and Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke, and the Minister of Health and

Long-Term Care to commemorate the 15th anniversary of the discovery of the gene responsible for cystic fibrosis tonight in the dining room. Joining us will be young Adele and Celia Orr from my

riding, sisters afflicted with cystic fibrosis. I look forward to seeing all members in attendance to support this worthy cause.

CHICKEN FARMERS

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I say to you, Mr Speaker, to my colleagues and to those in the gallery that today is Chicken Day at the Legislative

Assembly of Ontario. I'm pleased to welcome chicken farmers here to Queen's Park from across the province of Ontario.

Interjections.

Mr Hudak: I'm going to run out of time.

I don't want to ruffle my colleagues' feathers, but I believe that, if not the number one feather riding in the province, we definitely have the best tasting

chicken in the riding of Erie-Lincoln. I recommend that you try it. I've had the opportunity to tour a hatchery, Fleming Chicks --

Interjections.

Mr Hudak: -- I can't believe I'm being heckled on this, Mr Speaker -- and to visit with Gus Panagopolis, who has a layer and grower operation in

Fulton in my riding, all the way to Port Colborne Poultry, a major manufacturer and employer in Port Colborne.

I'm very pleased that about 150 chicken farmers are in my riding of Erie-Lincoln: in Niagara and the Dunnville area. I'm very proud of their investment, very

proud of their confidence in the local economy and very proud of the outstanding product. From supply management in the province of Ontario, my friends, our chicken farmers.

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): On a point of privilege, Mr Speaker: I just want to remind the House that we have good chicken in

Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound too.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): That's a good point of privilege.

Members' statements.

SENIOR CITIZENS

Ms Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): We have our own chicken farmer here, the member for Lambton-Kent-Middlesex.

Mr Speaker, I can't tell you how proud I am to be part of a government that's fighting to ensure our seniors are treated with the dignity and respect they

deserve. For eight long years, the Conservative government bullied the poor and vulnerable and abandoned seniors in this province. The Conservatives cut back standards in long-term-care facilities.

They eliminated the requirement of even one bath per week. They eliminated standards, they stopped inspections and on the Canada Day long weekend they surreptitiously hiked the fees for Ontario

seniors by 15%.

Our government is turning that around. We finally have a Minister of Health who understands that seniors deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. That's

why we are making sure that long-term-care facilities are inspected and standards are enforced. That's why we are making sure that our seniors and our vulnerable get at least two baths per week.

That's why we're making sure that 600 new nurses and 1,400 additional front-line staff are hired so that a registered nurse can be on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

I know that seniors in my community are thrilled to finally have a Minister of Health and a government that are standing up to support them when they need us,

and I'm proud to be part of that government.

HOME CARE

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): This year we are making sure that 21,000 more deserving Ontarians have access to home care in Ontario,

Ontarians who otherwise would have been forced to stay in expensive hospital beds for weeks and months away from their loved ones, away from their community. These are seniors who might otherwise

have lost their homes and had to move into long-term-care beds at a much higher price.

These are Ontarians the Conservative Party left behind. That's right, they made a shambles of home care. Do you want to talk about bullying? When local volunteer

boards of community care access centres stood up for our seniors, for our frail, for our vulnerable, do you know what the former Conservative government did? They fired those community volunteers

who spoke up on behalf of sick seniors. Every single one of those volunteers was fired by the former government. They replaced the citizen boards with government puppets who ripped apart home care

in Ontario. That's the shameful legacy of the Tories on home care.

We're putting the care and money back into home care. We are investing over $73 million to reach more than 21,000 Ontarians to make sure they can get the care

they need in their homes. We're making sure health care is delivered in neighbourhoods where our seniors want to stay: in their communities. It's the right thing to do for Ontarians, and it's the

right thing to do for our seniors.

HEALTH CARE

Mr Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): When it comes to health care in Ontario, the McGuinty government is delivering real results. We've heard

about long-term care. The Tories cut standards; we're bringing them back. We've heard about home care. The Tories cut funding and took home care away from Ontarians. We're making new investments to

help 21,000 more Ontarians get home care this year.

Let's look at nurses. The Tories likened them to the Hula Hoop and said they were out of style. Well, I've got news for you: Nurses never go out of style. That's

why we're investing in 2,400 new full-time nurses this year alone.

Let's look at doctors. The NDP cut off the supply. The Tories talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. We're actually getting the job done, changing the way

doctors do business so that underserviced communities have access again, so that northerners have access again, so that seniors have access again.

Let's look at hospitals. The NDP cut 8,000 beds. The Tories closed hospitals and ERs. We've invested almost $1 billion since taking office to help hospitals.

We're working with them to balance their budgets.

After 13 years of fewer nurses, fewer doctors, longer wait times, less home care and lower standards for our seniors, we finally have a Premier in Dalton

McGuinty and a Minister of Health in George Smitherman who are turning this ship around. That means more doctors, more full-time nurses, reduced wait times, more home care, more community care and

higher standards of care for our seniors.

That's real change. That's what we're fighting for, and that's what we're delivering.

VISITORS

Mr Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'm sure all members of the Legislature would want to help me in

welcoming students from the Mississippi School in Carleton Place, Ontario. There are four students sitting in our west lobby here: Courtney Coady, Breanna Holzscherer, Lucy Bidgood-Lund and

Patricia Roberge. They are here with their teacher, Kelly Hough, and a parent, Aleta Roberge.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): What can I say to the dean of the Legislature? That wasn't a point of order, but welcome.

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): On a similar point of order, Speaker.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Who has the point of order?

Mr Wilson: I'm trying to enlighten you.

I want to welcome Amanda Phillp and Leslie Morrison, who are with us here today.

The Speaker: There was no enlightenment, but it's OK.

Today we have with us in the Speaker's gallery a parliamentary delegation from the Republic of Poland, led by His Excellency Longin Pastusiak, Speaker of the

Senate. He is accompanied by his wife and other Senators. Please join me in warmly welcoming them to the Parliament.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): I beg to inform the House that today the Clerk received a report on intended appointments dated October 20,

2004, from the standing committee on government agencies. Pursuant to standing order 106(e)(9), the report is deemed to be adopted by the House.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

KIDS FIRST LICENCES ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LES PLAQUES D'IMMATRICULATION

EN FAVEUR DES ENFANTS

Ms Broten moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 130,

An Act to support children's charities in Ontario / Projet de loi 130, Loi visant à aider les oeuvres de bienfaisance pour enfants en

Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Ms Laurel C. Broten (Etobicoke-Lakeshore): Ontario's children's charities are an invaluable component to the socio-economic network of the

province. This bill proposes an optional program allowing persons to make donations to support the work of registered children's charities in Ontario when paying fees for licences, permits and

number plates issued under the Highway Traffic Act.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY AMENDMENT ACT (WORKPLACE VIOLENCE AND WORKPLACE HARASSMENT), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR

LA SANTÉ ET LA SÉCURITÉ AU TRAVAIL

(VIOLENCE ET HARCÈLEMENT AU

TRAVAIL)

Ms Broten moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 131,

An Act to amend the Occupational Health and Safety Act with respect to acts of workplace violence and workplace harassment / Projet de loi 131,

Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la santé et la sécurité au travail en matière d'actes de violence et de harcèlement au travail.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Ms Laurel C. Broten (Etobicoke-Lakeshore): This bill amends the Occupational Health and Safety Act to impose duties on employers, supervisors

and workers with respect to acts of workplace violence and workplace harassment which are defined to be acts of physical or psychological violence or coercion, psychological harassment or misuse of

power. Among other duties, this bill will require employers to develop a written code of conduct with respect to workplace violence and workplace harassment that is reflective of a commitment to

maintain a workplace free from violence and harassment as well as establish formalized policies and procedures, including a complaints procedure, a reporting procedure and an investigative

procedure, and establish remedies and disciplinary measures to deal with workplace violence and workplace harassment.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

BIODIVERSITY

Hon David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): I'm delighted to rise in the House today to inform the members of this government's

intention to develop an Ontario biodiversity strategy.

On Monday night, I invited representatives of environmental, industry, aboriginal and other groups, as well as senior staff from other provincial agencies, to

discuss our plans. I let them know that we wished to move forward on this important commitment, and sought their comments and advice. I proposed to them an open, transparent and inclusive process

that involves all organizations working together to develop this strategy. I want them to be our partners in this project.

The Canadian Biodiversity Strategy defines biodiversity as "the variability among all living organisms, including diversity within species, between species and

of ecosystems." In other words, whatever we can do to maintain a rich diversity of plant life, animals and entire ecosystems will make our province stronger and improve our quality of life. In

fact, the strategy also points out that "biodiversity supports human societies ecologically, economically, culturally and spiritually."

Unfortunately, the importance of biodiversity is not often recognized. We see ecosystems being degraded and species, as well as genetic diversity, being

reduced at an ever-increasing pace. There is broad recognition that we need to do something about this global environmental problem. From our perspective here in Ontario, action is required at both

the federal and provincial levels.

The members may be interested to know that Canada was the first industrialized country to ratify the UN Convention on Biological Diversity. Subsequently, the

Canadian Biodiversity Strategy was released by the federal government in 1996. Ontario is a signatory to that document. That agreement commits each province and territory to use the Canadian

Biodiversity Strategy as a guide to our actions and invites all Canadians to join with us in conserving Canada's biodiversity and using our biological resources in a sustainable manner. It also

calls upon each government to develop its own approach to implementing the Canadian strategy.

Part of the UN convention is the 2010 biodiversity target. The target commits jurisdictions to achieve by 2010 a significant reduction of the current rate of

biodiversity loss. That means Canada will be reporting on its progress in this area six years from now.

We view biodiversity conservation as a shared responsibility for all Ontarians. That is why we are beginning an open and inclusive process with other agencies,

organizations and the public to come up with this strategy. On Monday night, I received tremendous support from the groups that were assembled for both the commitment to developing an Ontario

strategy and for the open and inclusive process that we've proposed to use for its development.

An Ontario strategy will be a helpful guide when working on programs and policies related to biological resources. It will also be a useful framework for a

range of current initiatives, including protecting green space, halting the spread of invasive species, protecting species at risk and reviewing our parks and protected areas legislation. At the

same time, it will support similar efforts to conserve biodiversity by Ontario industries, stakeholders and the public. The strategy would also identify gaps in what we're doing now and highlight

priorities for action over the next five years.

Other jurisdictions have moved or are moving ahead. Quebec has a strategy in place. Saskatchewan has recently released its plan. British Columbia, Alberta and

other provinces are now working on theirs.

We owe it to all Ontarians, both present and future, to protect the rich variety of species and ecosystems that we've been blessed with in this province. We

have a responsibility to conserve biodiversity and use our biological resources in a sustainable way.

Conserving biodiversity is a key way of ensuring a healthy environment, strong communities and a thriving economy. I encourage everyone to take

part in the

development of the Ontario biodiversity strategy. We will be making available through our ministry a Web site and, on that, a workbook that will help guide the discussions. We should be up and

running on that site by the end of November.

I look forward to informing the House of our progress as this initiative proceeds.

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY /

STRATÉGIE VISANT

DES ÉCOLES PLUS SAINES

Hon Gerard Kennedy (Minister of Education): I rise today to speak about the government's efforts to make schools healthier places for students

to learn. Our goal is to develop the intellectual, physical and emotional potential of our children and young adults so that they become the best contributing citizens they possibly can be.

To this end, every student should enjoy regular physical activity, appreciate a healthy lifestyle and have access to a full range of extracurricular

activities, something that some folks in the House could probably benefit from as well.

Schools should be healthy environments where children get the right instruction, can follow the right example, and benefit from the right experience.

Unfortunately, under the previous government, things were allowed to slide to the point where schools relied on vending machines filled with junk food as a source of financial assistance for their

elementary schools.

We have taken a different approach. We have begun to rebuild our publicly funded education system, investing $1.1 billion since coming to office, including

$854 million this year.

Je crois qu'il nous incombe de donner à nos élèves les meilleures chances possibles de succès, ce que nous pouvons en grande

partie faire

en sensibilisant les élèves à une bonne nutrition et aux choix alimentaires sains. C'est pourquoi je suis heureux d'annoncer une nouvelle politique sur la malbouffe pour aider à

créer des milieux d'apprentissage plus sains pour les élèves de l'Ontario.

Current research on children and nutrition provided by the Dietitians of Canada presents a staggering picture: there has been an increase in the consumption,

for example, of carbonated products from five ounces per child per day to 12 ounces, that the serving size has grown 300% since the 1950s, and milk is consumed 30% less in schools that also sell

soft drinks. Some 27% of boys and 23% of girls in grades 6 and 8 consume candy and chocolate bars daily. In fact, by the time children reach the tween years of nine to 12, many have lifestyle

habits that could put them, sadly, in the fast lane for developing cardiovascular disease as early as their 30s.

Not surprisingly, the research also indicates that well-nourished children are more likely to be better prepared to learn. Likewise, inadequate nutrition have

can have a detrimental effect on children's ability to learn, as well as their physical growth and development. This is what parents have told us they want us to be supporting.

To provide boards with clear direction on what food items would be considered acceptable under this new policy, we asked the Dietitians of Canada, who are the

credible voice on the subject of nutrition, to develop guidelines based on their extensive work and research. Today, we are providing these guidelines to all school boards. They include examples of

healthy snack and beverage choices, including milk, vegetable juice and yogourt, and certain snack foods, including popcorn and so on, as long as they're low enough in fat and sodium.

Under our new junk food policy, boards need to ensure that all schools with students from kindergarten to grade 8 restrict the sale of food and beverage items

in vending machines to healthy and nutritious choices. We firmly believe this is one small way that Ontario's publicly funded education system can and must deliver excellence to students. Our

schools and the broader school community, including parents, can play a very influential role in heightening our young people's awareness of the importance of good nutrition. We are counting on

their support to really make the difference and help young children learn early in their development the importance of making those choices for themselves about a healthy lifestyle.

Cette initiative représente un autre pas vers la mise en oeuvre de la stratégie globale visant des écoles saines. Nous avons déjà fait

des progrès en ce sens en accordant des fonds aux conseils scolaires leur permettant de mettre les écoles à la disposition des groupes communautaires après les heures de classe

pour que ceux-ci aident les élèves à demeurer actifs.

This past July, I joined my colleague Jim Bradley, Minister of Tourism and Recreation, to announce a community use of schools initiative. By ensuring that

school space is affordable and accessible to communities that schools serve, the government is supporting healthy, active lifestyles, encouraging citizen engagement in community activities and

fostering safe and vital communities. Our vision is to have every school in Ontario recognized as a centre of community activity. Already, boards have begun to sign on to the voluntary agreement,

providing increased opportunities for students and other members of the community to stay active. Next steps in the healthy schools strategy will include increasing minimum daily physical activity

to 20 minutes in our elementary schools by next fall. We're also looking at how we can bring about healthier food choices in our high schools and our cafeterias.

Some of our school boards -- in fact, many of them -- already set a tremendous example in terms of the healthy alternatives to junk food they have already

placed in their vending machines. We applaud their efforts in a whole variety of areas to put the health and well-being of students first. Today, we are asking all boards and schools across Ontario

to do what I know they really want to do and these guidelines will make possible for them to do which is the same thing: to provide a healthier outlook for all the students under their care.

BIODIVERSITY

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): In response to the Minister of Natural Resources, I have a question: Where is the strategy on

biodiversity, and what is it?

You were asked by the Environmental Commissioner, in his report of last year, November 27, 2003, to come up with a coordinated strategy on biodiversity,

coordinated not only through MNR, but through agriculture, municipal affairs and environment. You tell us today that you have the "intention to develop" a strategy. It's not developed yet. You've

indicated today that you started on this Monday. Monday night, you invited representatives to discuss it.

I'll quote further from your statement: "Unfortunately, the importance of biodiversity is not often recognized." I'll say -- especially with your government,

Minister.

Why do you make this announcement today? You've made this announcement less than 24 hours before Ontario's Environmental Commissioner delivers his next

assessment on how this government operates. We'll see how MNR does this time.

In last year's report, Environmental Commissioner Gord Miller highlighted biodiversity as the key issue to be developed by MNR. I guess you got in just under

the wire. You got in under 24 hours, Minister, given that you were given this direction on November 27.

Gordon Miller advocated for and instructed this Legislature to bring in a coordinated policy for the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, the Ministry of

Agriculture, the Ministry of the Environment and MNR.

He indicates that government often fails "to grasp a wider perspective." I agree. "This failure to see the bigger picture" -- I would indicate that the bigger

picture is still lacking.

In his report, he not only talks about coordination, he talks about invasive species. I hear no details on invasive species and ecological land acquisition,

and no mention of the northern boreal initiative, seed stock and afforestation.

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): In response to the Minister of Education, it's truly another red-letter day for the McGuinty government in

Ontario. The self-proclaimed education Premier and his education minister are truly making a mark on our education system -- and it's a question mark.

After one full year in office, this dynamic duo of McGuinty-Kennedy has stage-managed more photo ops and spun more tales than Barnum and Bailey could ever

conceive.

While they're plying their trade, school boards, school councils, parents and students are left wondering what these masters of the spin are up to and what

it's all leading to. What are their priorities for education? What is their plan? And when they're finished with their smoke-and-mirrors performance, what role will be left for school boards,

school councils and parents in our province?

What leading-edge thinking has led to today's pronouncement that the Minister of Education is assuming the role of official parent for Ontario's children? What

equips this Minister of Education with the omniscient wisdom to be the nutritionist-at-large for the province of Ontario?

What message does he send to school boards, school councils and parents by reaching into every school throughout this province and micromanaging right into

their vending machines? Parents are not to be trusted -- that's this minister's message. School councils are a sham, principals have no role and boards of education are meaningless to this

minister.

That announcement, interestingly enough, comes only days after another one of this minister's bright thoughts, and that is to install cameras in every one of

our elementary schools. Now we know that the purpose of those cameras is to ensure that these children don't consume Girl Guide cookies or pop in those schools.

The parents of Ontario want this minister to get on with his job of ensuring quality education. We are debating in this Legislature a bill brought forward by

this minister to dismantle the professional learning program for teachers in this province. Minister, spend your time on quality education, not on trying to be the parent to every student and child

in this province. What do you know about parenting?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): In the meantime, I'd like to hear the response from the third party, from the member for Timmins-James

Bay.

BIODIVERSITY

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): It's interesting, we have the Minister of Natural Resources who walks in here today to announce that he

is finally doing something, after 12 months of being at the helm of the ministry, on what was one of their key campaign promises in the last election, which was dealing with the whole issue of

biodiversity.

I find it rather passing strange that 12 months after -- you have to ask yourself, why 12 months? I think the reason is pretty simple. The public is starting

to get the idea of this government when people such as hospital CEOs --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order, member from Eglinton-Lawrence. I'm very interested in what the member from Timmins-James Bay is

saying. Order.

Mr Bisson: I'm also interested, Mr Speaker.

Tthat minister has been at the helm for 12 months. He's had 12 months to act on what was one of their key campaign promises. Here we are, 12 months later.

Better late than never -- no argument. But you have to ask yourself the question: Why today? Why did they wait 12 months to all of a sudden announce a biodiversity strategy for the province of

Ontario? Simply put, they're trying to divert the attention of the people of Ontario off the bad record of this government when it comes to a number of issues, such as we're going to hear later

during question period, about how this government tries to bully people who work at hospitals to shut up about their hospital deficits. I think that's rather shameful.

But, to the biodiversity. You have to ask yourself a couple of questions. The first one is: Is this going to be another one of these committees that the

minister puts together and at the end of the day does nothing with? I ask myself that question because there is already a track record, we'll learn later, about how some of the ministers of the

crown have already done so. But, number two, if there is some work to be done in this area, and it should be taken seriously, there are a number of issues that have to be dealt with. The litmus

test is, what will the government be prepared to do by way of legislation; and are they prepared to put the money in the Ministry of Natural Resources that has to be put in place to make sure those

strategies are taken seriously and followed up? Stay tuned: another time, another channel. We'll soon find out.

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): This Minister of Education would prefer to talk about empty calories than about empty promises. Why

don't we talk about the fact that the centre for policy initiatives says we are $1.5 billion short of where we should be to correct the problems that the previous government has left us? When are

we going to talk about the failed funding formula that the Conservatives left us, that the Liberals spoke about, that they don't talk about any more? Why don't we talk about the botched busing

transportation initiative they introduced, where 31 boards across this province are going to lose anywhere from 1% to 60% starting next year? When are we going to talk about the fact that we've got

a moratorium on school closures and that schools are closing today and next year? When are we going to talk about the fact that this government in July said, "We are giving you $100 million for

special education," and in the next breath takes $100 million away from the boards? When are we going to talk about these important things? When is this government going to say, "We need a new

funding formula that addresses the needs of all of our students"?

I wager to you, Speaker, that your government, colleagues of yours are never going to change that funding formula. We are never going to see a new formula

other than tinkering around the system and hoping to get away and playing with these kinds of initiatives where we can divert people's attention from the real problems we face in education and talk

about empty calories instead of empty promises.

Minister of Education, why don't you talk to your colleagues about increasing minimum wage adequately so that people can afford to eat nutritious foods?

Minister of Ed, when are you going to talk to your colleagues about increasing social assistance adequately so that people can buy nutritious food? Minister of Ed, while you are at it, why don't

you tell Mr Sorbara, the finance minister there, to release a couple of dollars so people on ODSP can have the money they need to buy nutritious food? Why don't you take the time, lean over to your

colleagues and chat with them and say, "We've got to do something about this so people can afford to eat nutritiously"?

Minister, I know you and the Premier are good at dealing with empty calories, but I know you're not very good at dealing with your empty promises. We'll deal

with it.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. Let's take some time to prepare ourselves.

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): My question is for the Premier. I think it's important today to get your views on the record with

respect to a growing fear over the personal conduct of your Minister of Health and the culture of fear he and his officials are spawning in the men and women responsible for our hospitals. Minister

Smitherman describes anonymous sources as cowards and, under that definition, you have at least two cowards in your own caucus. Liberal MPPs, in today's Toronto Star, are expressing concern about

Mr Smitherman's approach. Premier, are you going to continue to ignore the climate of fear this minister has created, ignore the concerns of your own backbenchers?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I appreciate the opportunity to comment on the outstanding work being

done by our Minister of Health, George Smitherman. Is Minister Smitherman enthusiastic? You bet he is. Is he passionate about his responsibilities? You bet he is. Is he a fighter? You're darned

right he is. I'm glad he's on our side, but, more importantly, I'm glad he's on the side of the people of Ontario. He is relentless at pursuing transformations that will improve the quality of

their care.

Mr Runciman: Is he a bully? You bet he is.

Premier, you want to stick your head in the sand instead of showing leadership on this issue. Your own caucus members are expressing concern about the

minister's strong-arm and intimidation tactics, yet you keep the blinkers on and defend the indefensible.

This morning on your local radio station, CFRA in Ottawa, the president of the OHA, the Ontario Hospital Association, Hilary Short, said that every hospital is

feeling the heat right now. In this morning's Globe and Mail, the minister is quoted attacking hospital CEOs, implying that they're uncooperative fat cats, an attack that necessitated a response

from the president of the Ontario Hospital Association. Is this the kind of environment you want to defend when are you're getting headlines like, "Fear and Loathing Rule at Hospitals in Ontario"?

Is that your idea of good government?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I am proud of the efforts and the accomplishments of Minister George Smitherman. Let me tell you about some of the things

that he has fought for and some of his achievements: He has fought for and obtained more full-time nurses for the province; he's fighting for reduced waiting times; he's bringing home care to

21,000 more Ontarians; he's investing in community health care for the first time in over a decade; and he's making sure for the first time that our seniors, 70,000 of our parents and grandparents

who are living out the remainder of their lives in our nursing homes, are entitled to two baths a week and that a registered nurse is on duty on a 24/7 basis. Yes, I am proud of the

accomplishments, the achievements, the passion and the enthusiasm of our Minister of Health, George Smitherman.

Mr Runciman: Premier, as you know, this week the vice-president of child advocacy at Sick Kids Hospital, Cyndy DeGiusti, was forced to resign

two days after she publicly complained about the impact your policies will have on patient care at Sick Kids. From all reports, Ms DeGiusti was an outstanding employee, truly dedicated to the young

patients at Sick Kids, but she was shown the door. And you and your minister say you're innocent; your threats and a bully minister had nothing to do with it.

Premier, if you truly believe your minister's ham-fisted approach to the hospital sector had nothing to do with Ms DeGiusti's dismissal, will you support the

Conservative and NDP proposal for a committee hearing into this issue? Will you do that?

Hon Mr McGuinty: It is remarkable how quickly the former government would try to convince the people of Ontario that they should forget their

record when it came to setting a new standard for bullying in the province of Ontario, if not in North America. I want to remind you of their record: They fired every CCAC board when they

complained about cuts and asked for more money; they sent a gag order to paramedics to stop talking about ambulance delays; they bullied nurses by comparing them to Hula Hoops; they bullied

pregnant women on social assistance when they took away their nutritional supplements; and they bullied everyone on social assistance when they wanted to drug-test all of them.

Again, and I will be perfectly clear and unequivocal in this regard, Minister George Smitherman is being absolutely relentless in pursuing something that is

not easy: the transformation of our health care system so that together we can improve the quality of health care we deliver to all Ontarians.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): First of all, I want to assure the House that I was not standing in ovation to the Premier's answer. I do have a

question for the Minister of Health. In his absence, I refer it to the Premier. I see no end to your government's continued incompetence and mismanagement when it comes to dealing with Ontario's

rural communities, and that includes the hospital sector. We learned the other day that the Campbellford hospital is predicting it will close up to 19 beds and cut 21 full-time jobs. Also in the

same riding we learned from Mr Cable of the Northumberland Hills Hospital that they have your ministry's approval to cut 12 of 25 complex care beds. We already know we have countless Liberal

members who won't go on the record, and Mr Rinaldi is silent on the closure of the hospital beds and layoffs of medical professionals in his riding. Is Mr Rinaldi one of the Liberal members your

minister is bullying into silence and submission?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I want to assure you that as we speak, in fact, Minister Smitherman is

meeting with representatives of the OHA in order to ensure that we have a respectful ongoing dialogue, to ensure that we can proceed together with the transformation of our health care system,

including ensuring that we're getting value for Ontarians, but most importantly, better quality health care for Ontario patients and their families. That's what this effort is all about; that's

what this exercise is all about.

I'm pleased to report that so far, 50 Ontario hospitals have balanced their budgets and say they can live with our new accountability agreements. They say they

can, in fact, continue to deliver quality services to their patients. We look forward to dealing with the hospitals on a case-by-case basis to ensure that we're getting good accountability for the

money we invest in our hospitals without compromise and, in fact, improving the quality of care for patients.

Mr Hardeman: I think that answer is an embarrassment, as it goes nowhere close to answering the question that was asked. I'm sure there is

time during ministers' statements when you can make statements, but I would appreciate answers to questions.

Perhaps, Premier, you can explain why the Sault Area Hospital is cutting 75 full-time jobs and has a deficit of $6 million and growing. Given Mr Bartolucci's

silence yesterday on the suspension of Dr Koka, it is clear that he's afraid to talk to you, and now he's silenced on the cuts to his own hospital. Perhaps you can tell us if Mr Bartolucci is yet

another Liberal member whom you have asked not to speak out on hospital cuts and bed closures. Who will speak for the hospital in the Soo? Not anyone who doesn't want to feel the wrath of your

minister. Would you stand in your place today and say that Mr Bartolucci can stand up and defend the staffing cuts at the hospital in his riding?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Speaker, the --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order.

Hon Mr McGuinty: I appreciate the --

The Speaker: Can I get the response from the Premier? I'm hearing shouting from both sides. Sometimes I hear three questions coming from one

side --

Interjection.

The Speaker: Order. Could I just hear the Premier's response, and maybe just tone down the heckling? Thank you.

Hon Mr McGuinty: I'm sure Ontarians are asking themselves, where was the great outcry from the members opposite when they shut down all those

hospitals? Where was the outcry when they fired all those nurses? Apparently they have found religion. Apparently it's not a long journey on the road to Damascus; it's only this corridor here that

separates us.

The work that we are doing is not easy, but our full and sincere intention is to ultimately improve the quality of care for Ontarians. This is what Roy Romanow

said recently about what we're doing here. He said, "When I talk about sustainability with Premier McGuinty and Health Minister Smitherman in this province, I hear a strong commitment to future of

publicly supported medicare, and a resolve to spending resources designed to leverage the changes necessary, rather than spending on the status quo. It seems to me that Ontario wants to do the

`real work' required to ensure medicare's sustainability." That's what we're doing.

The Speaker: Final supplementary.

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): Premier, your government's treatment of rural communities is pathetic --

Interjections: Shame, shame.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. That's highly unnecessary.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. OK, we've had our fun.

Final supplementary, the member for Oxford.

Mr Hardeman: Thank you very much, Speaker.

Your government's treatment of rural communities is pathetic, whether it's hospitals or crisis intervention centres for farmers. Ministry officials have been

handing out crisis intervention packages to farmers suffering from mental distress because your government has done nothing to address their needs. It includes a 1-800 number for farmers desperate

for help and on the brink of losing everything. We called that number and to our horror the crisis line was disconnected, referring callers to a 1-900 crisis number where you can pay $2.99 a

minute. The farmer in desperation will hear a recording saying, "The crisis service is no longer available."

Premier, not only have you silenced your members but you have silenced farmers in crisis. Will you address your government's incompetence and assure us today

that crisis intervention hotlines for farmers will be reinstated immediately?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Speaker, I'm not sure how this flows from the original line of

questioning related to health care. I know it is in the opposition's interest to try to exploit regional differences in the province of Ontario, but we feel a responsibility on this side of the

House to move the province forward and all Ontarians together.

Just to set the record straight with respect to what we're doing in rural Ontario, recently our Minister of Education committed $31 million strictly for rural

schools. We have recently announced another $30 million for our BSE recovery funding program. That's in addition to the original $92 million already delivered. We have also committed $20 million in

nutrient management assistance and another $10 million for the Ontario cull animal strategy.

Speaker, I see you are telling me that my time is over, and I thank you for this opportunity.

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Your health minister's bullying has created a culture of fear at

Ontario's hospitals. The Sick Kids child advocate criticizes your hospital cuts on Saturday and by Monday she loses her job. Officials say she is gone because you're strong-arming hospitals to keep

quiet.

From Kapuskasing to Campbellford and from Hamilton to Ottawa, hospital workers are afraid to speak out about your hospital cuts because they fear they may be

the next to go. Even one of your Liberal backbenchers agrees your health minister is bullying. He said, "My community isn't happy. Some of these people are volunteers. They don't deserve that."

Ordinary Ontarians want peace and better results, not your health minister's intimidation and bullying. You've banned pit bulls in the province of Ontario. Why

don't you muzzle and leash your health minister, stop the bullying and get on with the real job of ensuring that hospitals have a budget?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I find that beneath the dignity that we should all attempt to attach to

this Legislature. Let me say this: I know it is, again, in the interest of the members of the opposition to describe what is going on in their self-serving and idiosyncratic way. But what is

actually happening is that there are all kinds of people speaking out. There are all kinds of people who have the opportunity to express their disagreement or concern with the approach that we're

bringing to transforming health care generally, and how we deliver care in our hospitals more specifically. We expect that. That is healthy. It's important that we continue to have that dialogue

and that debate.

But let me say this on behalf of this government: We will be relentless. We will not shrink from our responsibility to continue to bring about the kind of

change that will put our health care system on a sustainable footing and the kind of change that will improve the quality of care that we deliver to Ontarians.

Mr Hampton: Premier, today the health minister met with the Ontario Hospital Association. Here's what the hospitals had to say: "Any charges

by Minister Smitherman that hospitals are reluctant to change or look for savings are unfounded and unfair to the managers of our hospitals and to the 3,000 voluntary hospital trustees who govern

with such commitment under increasingly difficult circumstances." And they go on: "Hospitals have patients walking through our doors each and every day. Dismantling the hospital system piece by

piece, before the new system is in place, poses a huge risk to patient care."

And what did your Minister of Health have to say? Your Minister of Health said he's "loving" all the media attention he's getting as a result of his hospital

cuts.

Premier, will you tell the people of Ontario why they should be loving your approach to health care when all they are seeing from your bullying, intimidation

and cuts is more and more threat to their community hospitals and more and more threat to patient care?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I think the leader of the third party knows full well that Ontarians are seeing much more activity than just the dialogue

that we're having with our hospitals. They're seeing more full-time nurses. They're seeing the commitment we made to increase cardiac procedures by 36,000, cataracts by 9,000, hip and knee

replacements by 2,300. They're seeing a brand new vaccination program that's going to vaccinate two million children over the course of the next three years. They see the changes we're making in

home care, bringing home care to 100,000 more Ontarians.

Let me say this to all those people who commit themselves, who dedicate themselves and devote themselves to the quality of care we are delivering at present in

our hospitals: We commend them, we thank them, we value them, but we also want to work with them. We ultimately have a responsibility to bring about a transformation in health care. We're going to

do that, and we're going to do that working with our hospitals.

Mr Hampton: It will be news to people out there in the hospital system that you're working with them. Yesterday, the minister was attacking

the hospital boards and administrators. Today, furious George was going after front-line health care workers. Instead of addressing your government's short funding of hospitals, now he's going to

wage war on the lowest-paid, most vulnerable workers in our hospitals. And, Premier, you should know who these workers are. Most of them are women. He says either their wages should be slashed or

their jobs and their pensions and benefits should be contracted out.

Is this the McGuinty government's definition of efficiency: cutting the wages, the pensions and the benefits of the lowest-paid health care workers, attacking

the most vulnerable workers? Is this what you meant by "Choose change"?

Hon Mr McGuinty: This is nothing but pure, unadulterated invention. The minister has never suggested anything in that regard. What we have

done --

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Member from Simcoe North, come to order. New question.

Mr Hampton: To the Premier: Instead of ducking the scrums, you go outside the House afterwards, because that's exactly what Mr Smitherman,

furious George, said to the media earlier today.

But the issue is this: It is time to muzzle your pit bull. It is time to start working with hospitals instead of attacking them. You say you don't have the

money. Well, here is the equation, Premier. You're getting $825 million in new federal money. You've got $2 billion squirreled away in your budget in contingency fees.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Minister of Labour, would you come to order, please.

Mr Hampton: I don't think the Liberals like hearing these questions, Speaker.

You've got another $1 billion from your new health tax. Add it up. That's $4 billion you're sitting on, which is supposed to go, or can go, to health care.

My advice, Premier, and I'm asking you to do it: Will you stop your health minister from attacking the hospitals, from attacking the boards of hospitals, from

going after the lowest-paid workers in the hospitals, and sit down and work on their budget problems?

Hon Mr McGuinty: It's always interesting and entertaining to listen to the NDP leader's particular

interpretation of the facts. We are

investing more money in hospitals than ever before, and we feel a responsibility to ensure that we get value for patients with that additional investment. So we've decided, for the first time, that

we're insisting hospitals enter into accountability agreements. We want to ensure the money actually translates into better quality services. We think that's important to do on behalf of Ontario

patients.

If people ask us whose side we're on, whether on the side of the doctors or the hospitals, we're on the side of Ontario patients. The whole thrust of our

effort is to ensure that the additional money, the record amount of money we are investing in hospitals in Ontario, $11.3 billion this year, actually results in better quality services for the

people of Ontario.

Mr Hampton: Premier, let me give you an example of what's going on out there. While you pocket $825 million of new federal health care money,

in Sault Ste Marie they're laying off 75 hospital staff -- 40 of them are in nursing -- and money will actually be taken out of their budget for drugs that are used to battle cancer. We already

know about Sick Kids -- $45 million. Almost every hospital in northern Ontario is facing a serious budget deficit, and they all agree they're going to have to cut or delay services to try to meet

your budget restrictions.

Meanwhile, you've got the $825 million of federal money, you've got the new health tax money and you've got $2 billion in contingency reserve. Why don't you

sit down with the hospitals and try to work some of this out instead of sending out your pit bull to attack hospital workers and hospital administrators?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Again I fundamentally reject the categorization the leader of the NDP brings to this. Maybe he doesn't know, but I said a

moment ago and I'll say again that the Minister of Health has just returned from a meeting with representatives of the OHA. He does that kind of thing on a regular basis.

In keeping with the hospitals' request, we have given them 18 months to find a way to balance their budgets. We've established a brand new seven-step process,

working together with them. We've only gone through the first step. The members opposite would have us believe that all of these things and challenges that are connected with hospitals have somehow

derived from this new approach we're bringing to funding our hospitals. That is in fact not the case. The Minister of Health is determined to work with our hospitals to ensure we can improve the

quality of their health care, and he will continue to do that.

Mr Hampton: Premier, going out and attacking the lowest-paid hospital workers is not a new approach. We saw that for eight years. Going out

and attacking hospital administrators and the volunteer boards of hospitals is not a new approach. People saw that for eight years.

What the people of Ontario want is peace in their health care system. They want to see that new federal money and the new health tax money invested in real

services. They don't want to see their community hospitals cut. They don't want to see more cuts like the cuts to chiropractors, cuts to physiotherapists, cuts to optometrists. They've had enough.

They have seen that for eight years.

You, Premier, promised change. You, Premier, said, "Choose change." You got the federal money; you got the new health tax money. Where's the change, Premier?

All we see is the same old tired agenda, the same old attack on hospitals and hospital workers. Where is the change?

Hon Mr McGuinty: The leader of the NDP and I

part company on this, as we do on many other issues. He would say, "Listen, you got some money

from the feds. You got the new premium money. Just send it over to the hospitals. We don't really give a darn as to what way they spend it."

We're bringing a different approach on behalf of all taxpayers and Ontario patients. We are insisting that we get value for that new money. We are insisting

that we improve the quality of care as a result of that additional investment that we are making in our hospitals.

The leader of the NDP is a staunch defender of the status quo. I accept that. He'll be there for a long time. He has championed the status quo for a long time.

We're not going back there. We're moving forward with the transformation of our health care system. We're moving forward with our plan to improve the quality of care for Ontario families.

The Speaker: New question.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): My question is for the Premier, and it's a very clear message. You may want to stand by while your bully

minister beats up our hospital executives, but those of us in the opposition are not going to stand by and allow this fear and intimidation to continue.

Cyndy DeGiusti has an important job. Her job is to go to work every day and defend children's health care services as a children's advocate. On Saturday, she

spoke out about the bullying tactics of your government and the cuts to patient services. She showed up for work on Monday morning and, much like Donald Trump, she was fired.

Premier, will you not stand in your place and join those of us on this side of the House in calling for an immediate public hearing into this tragedy affecting

children in the province of Ontario? Would you do that?

Hon Mr McGuinty: This is just a little hard to endure coming from the then Minister of Community and Social Services who proposed that we

drug-test welfare recipients in the province of Ontario. That would be his idea of a progressive, modern, responsible approach when it comes to public policy.

There is not a shred of evidence that links the departure of that particular employee with this government or its actions. I have said publicly, as has the

Minister of Health: If anybody is the butt end of negative treatment of any kind as a result of criticizing this government, we say that is wrong. We are big enough to take on any kind of

criticism, constructive or otherwise, and we look forward to a healthy, vigorous, passionate debate as we improve health care in Ontario.

Mr Baird: What we're talking about is the climate of fear and intimidation that is experienced right across our health care system and your

inability to even address the problem.

In our home community of Ottawa, the hospitals are in crisis. The Ottawa Hospital is looking right now at plans to lay off nurses and plans to increase patient

waiting times for important procedures.

In last year's election, on page 12 of your campaign document Excellence for All, you said that you wanted to help communities have "the necessary training to

implement effective anti-bullying measures." You said, "It is time to put an end to bullying." Premier, will you stand in your place and say there is no room for bullying by your bully minister in

our health care system? Will you do that?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Again, this coming from a member from the Ottawa community who now purports to be a champion of health care. I ask him, on

behalf of the people of Ontario and the in excess of 100,000 who signed a petition to save the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario, where was he when his government decided they were going to

shut down the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario and remove that important and valuable resource for the people of eastern Ontario?

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Member for Nepean-Carleton, I'm calling you to order. I will regard this as a warning.

Hon Mr McGuinty: I might ask him as well, where was he when his government decided that they wanted to shut down the l'hôpital Montfort

that also benefits the people of eastern Ontario?

Here's an interesting observation made by the then parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Health, John O'Toole, who said, "Some would say she" -- in

reference to then Minister of Health, Elizabeth Witmer -- "ran away with the cheque book but somebody else got the cheques. We spent a ton and got not as much as we would have liked."

We are spending a record amount on hospital funding in Ontario, and we are determined to ensure that we get value for taxpayers and, more important than that,

that we get better quality of care for the people of Ontario.

The Speaker: New question.

Interjections.

The Speaker: It seems to me it's a day of naming people. I will start doing that now, because I want to get on with question period. And while

I'm at it, there's a lot of loose language here, unparliamentary language. I would like you to refrain from doing that.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question to the Premier. Around the province, hospital officials will be forced to cut programs,

beds and services because you refuse to adequately provide operational funding to these hospitals, but there is more to the problem. The Ontario Hospital Association reports that more than 30 badly

needed capital projects are now on hold because your government won't commit the funding to these projects. This year, you're going to receive $825 million in new federal funding and you also have

another $2 billion in unallocated funds sitting in reserves. You've got the money. Will you do the right thing and finally release the cheques so these capital projects can proceed?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I know the Minister of Health is anxious to speak to this.

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): As I've had the opportunity a few times in the House this week on issues with

respect to capital projects, I'm happy to repeat for the honourable member that I'm working very closely on this file with my colleague the Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal. I do

acknowledge that there are quite a few projects out there that have expectations of funding. This was created in part measure by the presentations by that party while in government of cheques

which, when taken to the bank, bounced. The reality beyond that is that we do have an obligation to ensure that any capital project that moves forward has appropriate operational funding associated

with it. We do expect to be in a position reasonably soon to offer some go-forward for projects in Ontario, and we're going to do so in keeping with our plans to transform the health care system in

Ontario.

Ms Martel: Let me give you an example of a project that has been delayed. The St Peter's hospital project in Hamilton is a clear example of

how your failure to fund these projects is really hurting patient care. Two projects at St Peter's were approved in August 2003 -- urgent upgrades of badly dilapidated facilities and a 90-bed

facility for young people with disabilities. The government shared the project with 62% of a $33-million total project, with community fundraising for the balance. The community funding is secure.

Everything is ready to go, but your government has refused to give the go-ahead and the funding to start this project. Let me repeat: Your government has some $3 billion sitting unallocated this

year that could be used for these important projects. I ask you again, will you cut the cheques today and fund these badly needed hospital projects?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I'm not getting into the new math that the honourable member is using, but I am happy to say --

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. Member for Nickel Belt, you asked the question; now hear the response.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Order, member for Nickel Belt.

Hon Mr Smitherman: I'm pleased to say that on Saturday night I'll be attending Mayor Larry Di Ianni's gala for St Peter's Hospital to raise

money for the academic specialty hospital unit for young adults with disabilities.

Here's what the CEO of St Peter's Hospital has to say about me and my involvement with those projects: "George Smitherman is the only Minister of Health" that

he has seen in his hospital. "George Smitherman has been nothing but supportive of the hospital project. He has been fair and met with patients and staff."

The ministry has already provided over $1.8 million for two hospital projects to support their planning efforts. The key point here is, like many other

hospitals in the province of Ontario, we're working co-operatively with St Peter's on the development of their plan. We hope to be able to make announcements with respect to these projects

shortly.

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY

Mr Tony C. Wong (Markham): My question is for the Minister of Education. Minister, today you announced that you would be banning junk food in

all elementary schools. I support this decision and have seen first-hand how banning junk food in schools contributes to healthier food choices for students. A year ago, York region public school

board removed all vending machines and junk food from school property. Educators, parents and students supported this decision.

A 15-year research study published in the journal Obesity Research in May 2003 found that at least one in four children is overweight in Canada, compared to

one in 10 in 1981. Childhood obesity can lead to a number of health problems such as diabetes, and children who are obese tend to grow into obese adults. Minister, why is this announcement today

important?

Hon Gerard Kennedy (Minister of Education): I want to thank the member for Markham for his interest in this subject and in the well-being of

students. It's just a small step that we're taking today. Making it comprehensive, in answer to the member, was really just a way of summarizing the consensus that exists. Parents want us to do

this; so do the school and the school principals. The school I was at today, Parkdale public, a fine school in this area, said, "Thank you for giving us the guidelines, the ability now to work with

parents and work with our own school communities."

What the Dietitians of Canada provided today was a practical list, an idea which I think everyone in this House would probably join in promoting, that students

should be able to make those good choices when they're young enough to be impressionable and that that high intake of sugar and the veering away from good foods is something we all need to do our

own small part on, and these guidelines help to do that.

Mr Wong: I'm pleased to hear that our government is taking a proactive approach to childhood obesity and putting preventive measures in our

schools. We've heard before of this government's commitment to making Ontario's schools healthier. Encouraging healthy eating by removing junk foods from schools is one step. What other measures

are we taking to ensure that our education system is keeping Ontario's children healthy?

Hon Mr Kennedy: Just as the government has an outlook to have Ontarians in general be healthier, we have a healthier schools outlook, and

we're working closely with colleagues like the Minister of Tourism and Recreation on an initiative that would, for example, put back in our schools community use of gymnasiums, classrooms and

fields that had been locked up by previous governments that didn't support the idea that schools should be a community hub for those students -- that they have those after-hours activities -- and

for the rest of the community as well.

Further, there has been a downgrading of physical activity in our schools. We need to do something about that, and we're looking for mandatory physical

activity for all elementary students. Again, some of the members opposite I know come from the last century, and they think it's wrong for us to lay out guidelines for young children to be able to

participate in our schools and to be able to direct them. We believe there's a stronger community consensus, and it's about doing what we can to head off exactly what the member prefaced his

question with: obesity, heart problems and things that we can do something about. It's a smart government that does that when they have the chance.

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

Ms Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): My question is for the Minister of Agriculture. The farmers of the province are in crisis. The

crisis is not of their own making, and they have to depend on programs like CAIS to help them make ends meet when their farms are in peril. Your government has the responsibility of delivering this

funding to farmers. Part of this responsibility is to deliver it in a timely fashion. But, Minister, your lack of clear processes for farmers to follow has meant that the CAIS program is absolutely

dysfunctional. Your own government estimates that 16,000 farmers across the province did not submit what the ministry considers to be a complete application. I have a suspicion that some of this

group is from my riding, but I expect they come from every rural riding across the province. Your ministry has only just admitted the serious failings of this program and now plans to contact

everyone who tried to apply for the program. It is not acceptable that you are leaving farmers in the lurch, knowing how close many of them are to losing their homes, their farms and their

livelihoods.

Minister, what steps are you going to take to speed up the CAIS program, not just for the farmers who are currently in the backlog, but also for those

responding to the letter asking for more information?

Hon Steve Peters (Minister of Agriculture and Food): I want to thank the honourable member for the question. As of the end of September, over

$25 million has flowed to farmers in this province as a result of the CAIS program, so I don't agree with her statement that the dollars aren't flowing. Certainly we recognize that we had almost

30,000 applications for CAIS and that a number of those applications were not complete. We are working with those farmers to ensure those applications are updated and turned around as quickly as

possible. I ask the member to be conscious of the fact, and we are conscious of the fact, that we need to get money out as quickly as possible. Ministry staff -- and I ask you to stand up and

support ministry staff -- are working as quickly as possible to deliver those dollars to the agricultural community.

Ms Scott: The applications started to come in at the end of April, and some were extended to the end of June. That's four to six months.

That's a long period of time for farmers to be waiting. It's a very serious matter. As you know, farmers are very proud individuals and they do not seek financial help frivolously. I want to remind

the minister and everyone here that the barn doors are silently closing, farms are going out of business and the economics of our community are going downhill.

When you add 16,000 more farmers to the end of your backlog, do you have any plan to handle this? How many months are the farmers going to have to wait? Is

that going to be another 16 weeks on top of what they have already been waiting, four to six months? Farmers are losing their homes. Minister, tell us how you're going to solve this catastrophe

affecting our farmers.

Hon Mr Peters: I want to thank the honourable member for the question. I would welcome it if there is any specific farmer within your

constituency -- quite honestly, for any of my colleagues who are here in the Legislature right now, if there's a particular farmer who has extreme hardship, we're going to work with you. We're

going to work with that farmer to make sure those dollars can flow as quickly as possible.

This government is committed to supporting the farmers of this province. The Premier announced in February -- we delivered $64 million in transition funding to

farmers. We embarked on the mature animal strategy because we wanted to do something for the long term. We've invested in abattoir capacity in this province, the very thing the federal government

has said we need to do.

I want to thank the Premier for his support, and my colleagues around the cabinet table, for coming forward to match the federal funding. We're coming forward

with an additional $30 million to support the cattle industry in this province. As we speak, we're working in consultation with the cattle industry to make sure we get it right, unlike your

government, which designed programs on the back of a tablecloth and didn't get it right and didn't ensure dollars flowed to farmers. We're going to make sure dollars get where they're supposed to,

and that's in the farmers' pockets.

WATER EXTRACTION

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question for the Premier. The proposed Great Lakes annex will allow the eight Great Lakes

states to divert unlimited water from the Great Lakes water basin that we all share. What's worse, Ontario will not be able to veto such water-takings, which will seriously threaten the levels of

the Great Lakes. There are no set limits on how much water can be diverted. There is no time limit on those diversions. The Council of Canadians, legal experts like Steven Shrybman, the Sierra

legal fund and others echo that it effectively gives free rein to the US to remove our water to service sprawl. Premier, do you support this annex giving the US the power to drain Ontario's Great

Lakes?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The minister will speak to this.

prohibit the diversion of water from the Great Lakes. That is the law in this province, and that is the law in this country. What a lot of people don't understand is that no such law is present in

the United States, either at the state level or the federal level.

Over the years, Quebec and Ontario have been trying to engage the eight neighbouring Great Lakes states to start to bring their thinking around to thinking, as

we do, that this is a precious resource, that the ecosystem of the Great Lakes must be protected and that they start to think the way we do about protecting that and preventing diversions.

Ms Churley: Premier, I really would like to hear your response to this. It's a very serious matter before us, and your minister is obviously

ignoring a very important, legal analysis that says that this agreement undermines the integrity of the Great Lakes and our water. You campaigned to stop water-taking that damages the environment

and depletes water tables. The agreement opens the floodgates for water to be taken out of the Great Lakes; there's a body of opinion that says that.

I'm going to ask you, Premier, will you agree to not sign this very flawed annex agreement so that a new agreement can be made that gives Ontario, not the US

states, the power to protect our own Great Lakes from thirsty US developers? Will you do that?

Hon Mr Ramsay: I would say to the member that, as she knows, we are in a consultation stage right with this charter annex proposal. The

deadline has just ended, and obviously we are collating all the responses we have had from this consultation.

But I think the member needs to appreciate that while there's a strict prohibition on diversion on the Canadian side, both provincially and federally, the

Americans don't have that. For the first time, we have engaged the Americans to start thinking about the lakes as we do. What we're talking about now is getting the states for the first time, if

they agree, to start passing their own laws in their own jurisdictions to control and prevent any major diversion from the Great Lakes. By putting it into law, we would be able to access their

courts and force them to enforce their law.

We're looking at this. We're listening to the consultation and pushing for Canada's position: to have no diversions from the Great Lakes.

NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT

Mr Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): My question is to the Minister of Agriculture and Food. During your recent visit to my

riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, you had the opportunity to interact with and hear the concerns of residents of my constituency in the agricultural industry.

During your visit, you reinforced our government's proactive approach with regard to ensuring public safety with new agricultural regulations, such as nutrient

management, and the new provincial water regulations. However, a major concern that my constituents had during your visit, and which you heard, was the cost incurred by the agricultural sector in

complying with these regulations. Public safety is of the utmost concern to the agricultural sector in Ontario. However, the farmers of the province are struggling financially. Can you tell this

House how our government is going to aid the agricultural industry to ensure compliance with the Nutrient Management Act?

Hon Steve Peters (Minister of Agriculture and Food): I think this is a government that has clearly demonstrated that we are committed to

implementing Justice O'Connor's Walkerton report. We're moving forward with what he identified as where we should move forward first, and that's on the largest agricultural operations in this

province. That's why we've committed, over a two-year period, $20 million to assist those 1,200 largest farms in this province to move forward to meet the Nutrient Management Act and regulations.

We're working very closely with the nutrient management advisory committee to make sure that we get it right.

This is a government that is concerned about the environment, but we also recognize that we can't put the burden solely on the backs of the farmers. That's why

government has to come to the table. Our dollars, combined with federal dollars, will provide up to 75% of funding for those 1,200 largest farms, which, incidentally, generate 30% of the nutrients

in this province. We're going to work with farmers. We're going to work with groups like OFEC to make sure we get it right.

Mr Brownell: I'm pleased to hear that the ministry will work with the farmers of the province and match the dates of compliance with the

availability of provincial funding. I laud you for recognizing the need for such assistance, and I recognize the need for this program in my constituency. In order for farmers in my riding to take

advantage of funding, it is essential that they are aware of programs that are in existence. Minister, can you tell how and when farmers can apply for funding -- you talked about the larger farming

community -- and who is administering the program?

Hon Mr Peters: This program will be delivered through the Ontario Soil and Crop Improvement Association. We've contracted to work with them.

These are demonstrated leaders in understanding the soil and crops of this province, and we're going to be working with them.

As well, I think it's important to note that the focus here is on the 1,200 largest farms. We're going to be working with the Ministry of the Environment, with

the nutrient management advisory committee, and we're conscious of the source water protection legislation that's going to be coming along. As the Ontario Farm Environmental Coalition clearly

pointed out, we need to make sure that the Nutrient Management Act and source water protection fit together. That's why the Ministry of the Environment and myself are going to be working very

closely together to make sure that we get this right, because we know that the opportunities for nutrients to escape from a farm and into a watercourse don't necessarily go by farm size. That's

why, be it a large farm or a small farm, we're going to work with the Ministry of the Environment to make sure that nutrient management and source water protection move forward on phasing in the

other agricultural operations.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): New question.

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): Minister, you've just finished saying that you're providing nutrient management funding of $20

million for large operations. However, the George Morris Centre, commissioned by your government, reveals compliance costs for nutrient management will be a staggering $235 million to $609 million.

Minister, does your government have a policy here to put our farmers at a competitive disadvantage? Are you putting farmers out of business?

Hon Mr Peters: I welcome this question on a couple of fronts. We firmly believe, as we've announced on the $20 million that we're moving

forward with, that there is a role and an obligation for government to be there to help farmers phase in. That's why we're moving forward on the 1,200 largest operations.

As a responsible government, we realized too that we needed to get an accurate picture of the true costs of implementing the Nutrient Management Act. That's

why we commissioned the George Morris Centre to bring forward that report, which clearly shows that there is a substantial cost. Unlike the previous government, this government is prepared to make

sure we don't hide anything from the public. That government and the previous Minister of Agriculture commissioned from the very same entity a report to look at the impact. They printed it on

purple paper and never released it. We put the information out. We made it available to the farmers in this province. You never released that information. You didn't have the guts to do it. This

government has the guts. We're going to work with the agricultural community.

Mr Barrett: In contrast to what you've just said, in that same announcement you've delayed the nutrient management compliance deadline to

December 31, 2005. Like the beef set-aside program, there are no application forms; there may not be forms until March 2005. We know you've already budgeted $5 million in funding for this fiscal

year, but without those application forms farmers have no way to access the money. Also, that funding is part of a transition fund. If the $5 million is not used this year, it's lost. Does this

mean the $20 million you've just announced may, in effect, only be $15 million by the end of the program?

Hon Mr Peters: Perhaps the honourable member should speak to organizations like the Ontario Farm Environmental Coalition or the Ontario

Federation of Agriculture, with whom I participated and made sure I had a conversation with last week.

During the first two weeks of November, there are going to be consultation sessions taking place all across the province. The closest one to the honourable

member will be held in the Ancaster-Dundas area. At that point -- those first two weeks in November -- the application forms and the full details of the nutrient management assistance program are

going to be made available to the farmers, so that they know very clearly.

The honourable member made mention of the date. Unfortunately, your government put in place a date for farmers to comply with that was not achievable. We're

prepared to work with farmers in this province. That's why we've asked the farmers to have a completed nutrient management strategy in place by March 31. We're going to give them time, through the

end of the year, to meet the opportunities to comply with this new legislation. We're going to work with farmers, unlike you.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. I saw you out there reading your

documents, and I wanted to give you a chance.

Minister, you will know that in the developmentally handicapped sector, when it comes to community supports, community organizations across the province are

having to reduce services because of a lack of funding, a situation that's been going on for some time. For example, in the city of Timmins, we have one organization that is potentially going to be

closing down two group homes for the developmentally handicapped in our community if something is not done; this with 20 people on waiting lists to get into those particular group homes. In other

organizations in the community, when it comes to services for the developmentally handicapped, we have services in the community being cut. What is your plan to deal with what is starting to become

a very serious situation for the developmentally handicapped across this province for community services?

Hon Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I very much appreciate the

question. As you know, historically, in the last 30 years all governments have continued to put more money into developmental services. It is an area that is probably the least partisan of all

government activity. What has happened is that volume and demand increased exponentially, far exceeding any funding that governments have traditionally continued to put in developmental services.

This has left us with huge dilemmas. How do we find funding to meet the gaps in services that we know exist in this sector? This is what we are working on every day. The example that this MPP is

giving, the number of agencies that he deals with locally -- he and I worked together on several of these issues for families in his region. I can tell this member and the agencies in his community

that we are working on a complete policy review to see how we can improve the delivery of services to that community, because we understand the gaps that do exist.

Mr Bisson: Minister, the community organizations, as you well know, are working on those things themselves. What they've been looking for is

for the government to fund those things they've long recommended, and that's what this issue is.

I'm further worried because I was at a press conference earlier this summer where you announced the closure of the last three institutions in this province

where developmentally handicapped people reside. We're going to take the last thousand people in those institutions, who admittedly were the hardest to serve when it came to moving them out of the

services some years ago, with community supports that are ill-equipped to deal with what's in the community now. I say to you, Minister, that if we can't deal with what's in the community now when

it comes to providing services to the developmentally handicapped, how in the heck are we going to deal with that as you close the last three institutions and put the last thousand people into

communities that are ill-prepared and ill-equipped to deal with the input?

Hon Ms Pupatello: Again I want to say that I was pleased to see that this MPP attended that press conference, because it was a historic moment

where we moved forward, to where other parties of other governments have been all along, to finally close institutional care in the developmental sector in Ontario to join other jurisdictions that

will not use institutional care but rather have moved to community-based services.

We, I think, in this House all agree: We do have concerns that we will prepare the community to serve the individuals who will be moved into the community. I

will tell this member that there will not be an individual moving from the institution to the community unless that community is ready to receive that person and those supports are there. In the 13

facility closures that have happened in the history of government, those supports were in the community before those people were moved. I will tell this member as well that a $110-million

announcement that came along with that facility closure announcement secures additional funding in this sector as we move to grow the capacity of services for developmental individuals.

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

Mr John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture and Food. Parts of the agribusiness sector in Ontario

are having a record year. Now, for example, the Chicken Farmers of Ontario are here today, and we welcome them. But as you know, Minister, other sectors are facing unprecedented challenges.

As the member for Perth-Middlesex, I'm keenly aware of the devastatingly negative impacts of the continued border closure of Ontario cattle to the US market. I

want to give my farmers some hope. I understand that today there was a major announcement in regard to the Chinese market. Could you explain its significance to the beef and dairy farmers of

Perth-Middlesex?

Hon Steve Peters (Minister of Agriculture and Food): I would like to thank the member from Pork-Middlesex -- pardon me, Perth-Middlesex, the

pork capital of Ontario -- for that. I think it's important to recognize and we need to commend the federal government for moving forward on signing two protocols with the government of China to

restore trade in livestock genetics. This is one of the first positive signs that we have seen in the past 17 months. I know, in speaking with the federal minister, that there are other initiatives

in place. But this is definitely going to help the farmers of this province. This is, I think, going to help send the message to other governments that Canadian cattle are safe.

Mr Wilkinson: That's just great news. Minister, as you know, last Friday the US imposed a punitive duty on Ontario pork. As you mentioned,

pork is huge in my riding. This is a direct threat to the success of the many pork producers in my riding.

On Monday, along with my seatmate, the member for Markham, who's the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade, I was at a

reception where the Premier spoke. It was a reception in honour of all the Consuls General who have offices here in Toronto. He was kind enough to introduce me to Madam Chen, the Consul General for

the People's Republic of China. We discussed the punitive US duty. I asked her if her country would be interested in expanding our agricultural trade. She said yes. She's arranging a meeting.

Minister, would you be prepared to meet with representatives from the People's Republic of China?

Hon Mr Peters: In response to the member, certainly, I look forward to the opportunity to meet with the Chinese officials, because what we

need to do is try to develop new trade opportunities. That's why I want to commend the member from Chatham-Kent Essex, Pat Hoy, who's been working very hard with the Korean delegation to try and

develop new markets for not only Canadian beef but Canadian pork, which is ultimately going to help pork producers in your riding. That's why it's great to have the Chicken Farmers of Ontario here

today, because they play a very important role in the agricultural economy of this province.

That's why we stand up. We made sure that Ontario had a place at the table in Geneva at the world trade talks. We were there defending the interests of supply

management. We were there defending the interests of individuals like these chicken farmers who are here today. We're going to stand up and do everything we can to resume trade. It is unfortunate

that we've seen the border closed to beef and the additional duties that are being imposed on the swine industry, but we're going to continue to stand up and advocate for Ontario farmers.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): That brings us to the end of question period.

Hon Mr Peters: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'd just like to correct the record on a comment that was made in the House here earlier

today. There was a comment raised about a telephone number, a farm crisis line. There is a farm crisis --

The Speaker: Order.

Interjections.

The Speaker: One at a time. That's not a point of order.

Ms Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Earlier in question period, the Minister of Health referred to a document

where he quoted Grant Walsh, the CEO of St Peter's hospital. I'd like that document tabled in the House.

The Speaker: That's not a point of order.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. All who are leaving the Legislature now, maybe you'd do so quietly. As a former Speaker used to say, when the Speaker is

standing, I would like members to be sitting. Be seated. It brings a bit of order to the place.

PETITIONS

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas there are approximately 23,000 children and youth in Simcoe county and York region who have special needs; and

"Whereas approximately 6,000 of these children have multiple special needs that require a range of core rehabilitation services; and

"Whereas children with multiple special needs (and their families) throughout the province access ongoing rehabilitation services that are critical for their

development at children's treatment centres in their area; and

"Whereas there is no children's treatment centre in Simcoe county or York region. For families that can travel, the closest services are in Toronto; and

"Whereas Simcoe county and York region is the only area left in the entire province that does not have access to children's treatment centre services in their

own area; and

"Whereas, the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care provided funding to the Simcoe York District Health Council for implementation planning for an integrated

children's rehabilitation services system in December 2001; and

"Whereas the implementation plan was submitted to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care in December 2002; and

"Whereas the proposal was reviewed and approved by the appropriate ministries in 2003 and in August the Ministry of Health advised the Simcoe county and York

region district health council that the funding had been committed and would be available shortly;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislature of Ontario to release the funding for the children's treatment centre in Simcoe county and York region so that

core rehabilitation services can be delivered to the children and youth in Simcoe county and York region."

I support the petition and sign it.

HEALTH CARE SERVICES

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have hundreds more of these petitions coming in about the cuts to health services. It reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the McGuinty Liberal government is cutting provincial funding for essential health care services like optometry, physiotherapy and chiropractic

care;

"Whereas this privatization of health care services will force Ontarians to pay out-of-pocket for essential health care;

"Whereas Ontarians already pay for health care through their taxes and will be forced to pay even more through the government's new regressive health tax;

"Whereas the Liberals promised during the election that they would not cut or privatize health care services in Ontario;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We demand the McGuinty Liberal government keep its promises and guarantee adequate provincial funding for critical health services like eye, physiotherapy and

chiropractic care."

I fully support this petition and will affix my signature to it.

GO TRANSIT SERVICES

Mr Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I have a petition to the Ontario Legislative Assembly from the Lisgar Residents' Association, and it reads

as follows:

"Whereas the city of Mississauga has, within a generation, grown from a linked collection of suburban and farming communities into Canada's sixth-largest city,

and tens of thousands of people daily need to commute into and out of Mississauga in order to do business, educate themselves and their families and enjoy culture and recreation; and

"Whereas gridlock on all roads leading into and out of Mississauga makes peak period road commuting impractical, and commuter rail service on the Milton GO

line is restricted to morning and afternoon service into and out of Toronto; and

"Whereas residents of western Mississauga need to commute to commute, driving along traffic-clogged roads to get to overflowing parking lots at the Meadowvale,

Streetsville and Erindale GO ... stations;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario, through the Ministry of Transportation and highways, instruct GO Transit to allocate sufficient resources from its 2004-05

capital budget to proceed immediately with the acquisition of land and construction of a new GO train station, called Lisgar, at Tenth Line and the rail tracks, to alleviate the parking congestion,

and provide better access to GO train service on the Milton line for residents of western Mississauga."

As one of those residents, I affix my signature.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr Gerry Martiniuk (Cambridge): "To the Parliament of Ontario:

"Whereas gasoline prices have increased at alarming rates during the past year; and

"Whereas the high and different gas prices in different areas of Ontario have caused confusion and unfair hardship on hard-working Cambridge families;

"We, the undersigned, hereby petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"

(1) That the Ontario McGuinty Liberal government immediately freeze gas prices for a temporary period until world oil prices moderate; and

"

(2) That the Ontario McGuinty Liberal government and the federal Martin Liberal government immediately lower their taxes on gas for a temporary period until

world oil prices moderate; and

"

(3) That the Ontario McGuinty Liberal government immediately initiate a royal commission to investigate the predatory gas prices charged by oil companies

operating in Ontario."

I sign that.

MINIMUM WAGE

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a petition that reads, "We Deserve Better: It's Time for a Raise!"

It says:

"To the Ontario provincial Legislature:

"Because the minimum wage was frozen at $6.85 for almost nine years, despite significant increases to the cost of living; and

"Because the McGuinty Liberals have raised it by a mere 30 cents and $7.15 is still far too low; and

"Because a full-time worker earning the current minimum wage in a large city is almost $6,000 below the poverty line, and to reach the poverty line would need

an hourly wage of at least $10; and

"Because the minimum wage should provide people with an adequate standard of living;

"We demand that the Ontario government immediately increase the minimum wage to at least the poverty line -- that means $10 an hour -- and index it to the cost

of living."

I support this petition.

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

Mr Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I have a petition to the Ontario Legislative Assembly from a group of residents in the Lisgar area. It is

about access to trades and professions in Ontario and reads as follows:

"Whereas Ontario enjoys the continuing benefit of the contributions of men and women who choose to leave their country of origin in order to settle in Canada,

raise their families, educate their children and pursue their livelihoods and careers; and

"Whereas newcomers to Canada who choose to settle in Ontario find frequent and unnecessary obstacles that prevent skilled tradespeople, professional and

managerial talent from practising the professions, trades and occupations for which they have been trained in their country of origin; and

"Whereas Ontario, its businesses, its people and its institutions badly need the professional, managerial and technical skills that many newcomers to Canada

have and want to use;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario, through the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities and the other institutions and agencies of and within the

government of Ontario, undertake specific and proactive measures to work with the bodies regulating access to Ontario's professions, trades and other occupations in order that newcomers to Canada

gain fair, timely and cost-effective access to certification and other measures that facilitate the entry, or re-entry, of skilled workers and professionals trained outside Canada into the Canadian

workforce."

I wholeheartedly agree with this petition. I affix my signature and ask Anthony to carry it.

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters who work as professional, full-time

firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario; and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that would uphold the right to

volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

I have signed this, and it has come from my riding.

EYE EXAMINATIONS

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): "Whereas the 2004 provincial budget was not clear on whether adult optometry patients who have or who are at risk

for medical conditions, such as diabetes, glaucoma, macular degeneration and clinically significant cataracts would continue to be covered through the Ontario health insurance plan; and

"Whereas Ontario's optometrists strongly feel that Ontario seniors, those under 20 and those with chronic sight-threatening diseases must continue to receive

primary eye care services directly from Ontario's optometrists; and

"Whereas forcing patients to be referred to optometrists through their family physicians ignores the years of specialized training optometrists undertake to

detect, diagnose and treat eye conditions; and

"Whereas almost 140 communities across the province have already been designated as underserviced for family practitioners and the government's approach will

only exacerbate the problem unnecessarily;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care immediately clarify that the eye examination services they provide to patients at risk for medical conditions

will continue to be covered by OHIP and the coverage for these services is not dependent on a patient being referred to an optometrist by a family physician."

I agree, and I've signed this petition.

Mr Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): I have a petition to the Legislature, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas the 2004 provincial budget was not clear on whether adult optometry patients who have or who are at risk for medical conditions, such as diabetes,

glaucoma, macular degeneration and clinically significant cataracts would continue to be covered through the Ontario health insurance plan; and

"Whereas Ontario's optometrists strongly feel that Ontario seniors, those under 20 and those with chronic sight-threatening diseases must continue to receive

primary eye care services directly from Ontario's optometrists; and

"Whereas forcing patients to be referred to optometrists through their family physicians ignores the years of specialized training optometrists undertake to

detect, diagnose and treat eye conditions; and

"Whereas almost 140 communities across the province have already been designated as underserviced for family practitioners, and the government's approach will

only exacerbate the problem unnecessarily;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care immediately clarify that the eye examination services they provide to patients at risk for medical conditions

will continue to be covered by OHIP, and the coverage for those services is not dependent on a patient being referred to an optometrist by a family physician."

I affix my name in full support.

TTC RIGHT-OF-WAY

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a petition. It's addressed to the Parliament of Ontario and especially to the Minister of the

Environment. It reads as follows:

"Whereas an environmental assessment is underway on St Clair Avenue West to study the potential transit improvements;

"Whereas the consultation process so far has been in bad faith, top-down and rushed, which has disappointed and angered the local community almost entirely,

and not been up to any acceptable public standards;"

Interjection.

Mr Ruprecht: I think this petition is of such importance that the member may want to listen to this.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Order. Continue, please.

Mr Ruprecht: That's right. The member may want to listen to this petition because of the importance of the very subject.

The Deputy Speaker: Continue with the petition, please.

Mr Ruprecht: "Whereas the comments by the chair and the members of the Toronto Transit Commission have made it clear that there is a

predetermined outcome to this EA process, regardless of the objections of the local community;

"Whereas a dedicated right-of-way would restrict left-turn access to neighbouring streets;

"Whereas a dedicated right-of-way would force significantly more traffic on to local streets;

"Whereas safety must be a high priority;

"Whereas a right-of-way would lead to the reduction or elimination of on-street parking;

"Whereas traffic bottlenecks at certain intersections and underpasses are already terrible;

"Whereas the road would have substantial negative economic impact on local businesses;

"Whereas there is no guarantee that a dedicated road will improve transit service substantially, as the number of streetcars serving the streets will actually

be reduced;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, strongly urge the Ministry of the Environment to order a full environmental assessment on St Clair Avenue West, one that

genuinely consults and takes into consideration the views and opinions of the local community."

Since I agree with this wholeheartedly, I'm glad to sign it as well.

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): "To the Legislature of Ontario:

"Whereas there are approximately 23,000 children and youth in Simcoe county and York region who have special needs; and

"Whereas approximately 6,000 of these children have special needs that require a range of core rehabilitation services; and

"Whereas children with special needs and their families throughout the province access ongoing rehabilitation services that are critical for their development

at children's treatment centres in their area; and

"Whereas there is no children's treatment centre in Simcoe county or York region -- for families that can travel, the closest services are in Toronto; and

"Whereas Simcoe county and York region is the only area left in the province that does not have access to children's treatment centre services in their own

area; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care provided funding to the Simcoe York District Health Council for implementation planning for an integrated

children's rehabilitation services system in December 2001; and

"Whereas the implementation plan was submitted to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care in December 2002; and

"Whereas the proposal was reviewed and approved by the appropriate ministries in 2003 and, in August, the Ministry of Health advised the Simcoe county and York

region district health council that the funding had been committed and would be available shortly;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislature of Ontario to release the funding for the children's treatment centre in Simcoe county and York region so that

core rehabilitation services can be delivered to the children and youth in Simcoe county and York region."

I'm pleased to sign my name to that.

OPPOSITION DAY

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY /

INDUSTRIE AGRICOLE

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I move that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario call upon the government:

To recognize the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Food's budget has been reduced by over 20%;

To reinstate full and future funding to the municipal outlet drainage program, which has been cut and given only temporary transition funding;

To reinstate full and future funding to the genetic research programs of Ontario dairy herd improvement, Ontario swine improvement and beef improvement

organizations, so that Ontario food quality and safety will continue to excel;

To provide BSE funding to Ontario's ruminant industry quickly as is being done in other provinces; and

To call upon Premier McGuinty to fulfill his campaign promise to support the farmers of Ontario by doing these things immediately.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Mr Hardeman has moved:

That the Legislative Assembly call upon the government,

To recognize the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Food's budget has been reduced by over 20%;

To reinstate full and future funding to the municipal outlet drainage program, which has been cut and given only temporary transition funding;

To reinstate full and future funding to the genetic research programs of Ontario dairy herd improvement, Ontario swine improvement and beef improvement

organizations, so that Ontario food quality and safety will continue to excel;

To provide BSE funding to Ontario's ruminant industry quickly as is being done in other provinces; and

To call upon Premier McGuinty to fulfill his campaign promise to support the farmers of Ontario by doing these things immediately.

Mr Hardeman. The member for Leeds-Grenville.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Hardeman, you have the floor first. If you yield the floor, it goes in rotation to the next person.

Mr Hardeman: I would ask for unanimous consent to let Mr Runciman speak first.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Hardeman has asked for unanimous consent that Mr Runciman speak first on this motion.

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): And that he speak second.

The Deputy Speaker: I didn't hear him say that.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker: That Mr Runciman speak first and that Mr Hardeman speak second. Is there unanimous agreement? Agreed.

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): I want to thank Mr Hardeman for his generosity, and I also want to thank him for tabling this motion.

It's an indication of the member's commitment to the farming community in rural Ontario and the residents of rural Ontario, and of his deep faith in maintaining a way of life that is regrettably

under severe stress at the moment.

I wanted to lead off as the Leader of the Opposition, albeit temporarily -- we're not sure how temporary -- by indicating the support of the leader of our

party, the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, Mr John Tory, for this, being the first opposition day in this session of the Legislature. I think it indicates the commitment of our caucus

with respect to representing and making sure the concerns of rural Ontarians are heard in the Ontario Legislature, and hopefully they will be recognized by the government of the day.

To a significant degree, that isn't the case as we speak. We have seen a number of situations occur. I represent a riding that has a significant rural

component, and I know that the folks living in rural Ontario are under living situations and working situations they have not experienced in my lifetime and their lifetimes. We're seeing people

leaving the farming community, under significant stress. A lot of it can be attributed to the mad cow crisis -- I think that's an appropriate description -- and the fallout from mad cow.

It's not just the beef farmers who are facing these challenges. As a result of this, we're seeing a ripple effect, and it's slowly but surely having an impact

on many others: dairy farmers and their ability to get rid of cull cows; we're seeing it with feed dealers who are now facing situations where they are having difficulty maintaining and continuing

in business because of the shortfall in income for many in the farming community; farm equipment dealers; and those who operate a range of small businesses in rural Ontario, like a grocery store, a

hardware store, whatever it might be, who are now also suffering from the impacts that have trickled down, if you will, from the mad cow crisis.

Just recently we saw the Kingston Stockyards closing and the family -- I think it's the Martin family -- who had run that business for many years losing that

family business and losing their own home when the bank made a decision to foreclose. Those are the kinds of difficult situations we're seeing.

I met recently with representatives of the OFA in the Leeds-Grenville area, and they were describing to me some of the stresses their families are under. We

don't have statistics -- I don't have them, and perhaps we may hear some later today -- about suicide rates and marriage breakdowns, those kinds of traumatic situations that many in rural Ontario

are facing today.

Our role here as the official opposition is to talk about the Liberal government's response, and it has been sad to say the least. What have they done? They

have delayed the safety net payouts, they have delayed supports with respect to mad cow -- in fact, the Premier had to be embarrassed into even announcing money. After he was booed at the plowing

match, he miraculously came up with money with respect to BSE. I call that government by crowd reaction.

We have things like a farmer can't take a cow to the local abattoir to have it slaughtered and cut for his own family's use because of initiatives by this

government. You can take a deer, but you can't take a cow for local use. Water regulations are another situation causing serious problems in rural Ontario. This Liberal government is going to close

down community and church halls because of their intransigence. We have a Minister of Agriculture who said he was going to be a strong spokesman on behalf of rural Ontario. That just isn't

happening. They have no faith in him. They have no confidence in him to speak up and fight for them around the cabinet table. It just is not happening.

Mr Hardeman: