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March 27, 1990

34th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

ALCOHOL ADVERTISING

KIDNEY MONTH

DARRELL ROLLS

PROTECTION FOR HOME BUYERS

LICENSING OF MOTOR BOAT OPERATORS

ROBERT D. LOREE

MUNICIPAL FINANCES

SKILLS TRAINING

FOOD BANKS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION

LINKAGE PROJECTS

RESPONSES

LINKAGE PROJECTS

ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION

LINKAGE PROJECTS

ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION

EVENTS IN EASTERN EUROPE

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CONCERNS AT SCHOOLS

TIRE TAX

INVESTMENT IN ONTARIO

COURT SECURITY

RENT REGULATION

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

SEXUAL ASSAULT

PROTECTION FOR HOME BUYERS

LANDFILL SITE

MINIMUM WAGE

ST ELIZABETH NURSING HOME

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

TORONTO AREA TRANSPORTATION

PETITION

TEMAGAMI DISTRICT RESOURCES

INTRODUCTION OF BILL

PLANNING AMENDMENT ACT, 1990

ORDERS OF THE DAY

INTERIM SUPPLY (CONTINUED)

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

ALCOHOL ADVERTISING

Mr Kormos: The government of Ontario has announced its new guidelines for advertising by alcohol manufacturers. These guidelines legalize and permit advertising that was not available to these manufacturers before.

This relaxation of standards for alcohol advertising has made a really big impression on people in Ontario. These relaxed guidelines really impress the victims of drunk drivers and the families of those victims. John Bates, the president of People to Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere, predicts a disaster for the battle against drunk driving in Ontario, and he is probably right.

These relaxed guidelines really impress the parents of teenagers and young adults, parents who are fighting what seems to them like a losing battle against the glossy, slick advertising of the beer and liquor companies, parents who know that alcohol ranks along with a dozen other drugs as an addictive substance that can quickly destroy young lives.

These new, liberal guidelines really impress the parents of teenage alcoholics, parents who have seen their children descend into the Hades of abuse and addiction. The relaxed guidelines of the Liberal government impress the children of alcoholic parents, children who will persistently be denied what is rightly theirs because they cannot compete with the lure of alcohol.

It is trite but true to state that alcohol remains number one as the addiction of choice. It is still the number one killer on the highways, the number one destroyer of families and young lives. The alcohol pedlars of Ontario obviously have a lot of clout with this government, and this Liberal government is obviously more concerned with the profits of the liquor industry than with the health and lives of young and old alike.

There surely is a war against alcohol and drugs going on in Ontario. The only question left is, what side is the govemment on?

KIDNEY MONTH

Mr Cousens: March is Kidney Month, a month during which time canvassers have been going from house to house across Ontario soliciting the support of people in our province for kidney research and for assistance to those people who have kidney disease.

Kidney disease is a problem that has hit many families. I lost my eldest brother to kidney disease a number of years ago and since then have taken an active

part in helping fight for those who have the disease and for more research. Last year, in 1989, $5 million was raised across this province in support of kidney research. I think every one of us and the people who are taking in the Legislature today still have an opportunity to help in fighting this very horrendous disease.

There is so much that can be done through organ donations, through a better awareness of the problems you might have if you have high blood pressure, giving emotional and financial support to those people who happen to have kidney disease. Every one of us will know of someone who has had kidney disease. More and more people are becoming aware of the problem. If only everyone would begin to take it very seriously, we could eliminate the disease and do something very significant to help those who have the problem.

Let’s remember that March is Kidney Month. Maybe each of us could do something to help.

DARRELL ROLLS

Mr Ballinger: I am pleased to rise this afternoon to pay tribute to the quick-thinking actions of a constituent of mine, Darrell Rolls. Recently Mr Rolls, a resident of Whitchurch-Stouffville in my riding of Durham-York, was instrumental in assisting the Metropolitan Toronto Police and York Regional Police with the apprehension and charging of a murder suspect.

On Monday 12 March Mr Rolls spotted a man in a car in downtown Stouffville that had just been described in a radio news broadcast as that of a suspected murderer. Mr Rolls immediately drove to his house and phoned the Metro police and informed them that he had just spotted the suspect in the vehicle heading west on Highway 47 out of Stouffville. Then, playing a hunch, Mr Rolls returned to his car and drove to a small plaza in the west end of Stouffville where he located the unoccupied suspected vehicle.

The Metro police were again contacted by Mr Rolls, who informed them of the exact location of the vehicle. The Metro police then dispatched officers of the York Regional Police Force, who were forced into a 15-kilometre police pursuit and eventual capture of the suspected murderer.

According to Metro police, Mr Rolls is being recommended for a citation for his unselfish efforts in the apprehension and charging of a suspected murderer. It is great to know that Ontario has such caring residents as Darrell Rolls, whose personal initiative greatly assisted our police in the protection and the safety of its citizens.

PROTECTION FOR HOME BUYERS

Mr Farnan: It is my intention later today to introduce a private member’s bill entitled

An Act to amend the Planning Act, 1983. This act will prohibit builders from selling unregistered building lots.

Two years ago 142 families purchased homes in Richmond Hill from Crest Valley Homes Ltd, one of the Libfeld group of companies. At the time of sale, the builder had not registered a plan of subdivision. Now the builder, who has still not registered the lots, is asking each family for up to $85,000 more to build the homes. The original contracts to build between the builder and the home buyers have been extended 240 days. At the same time, Crest Valley Homes Ltd has delayed construction while trying to bargain more concessions from the local government.

The builder continues to sell more homes on land on which he has yet to receive approval from the town of Richmond Hill. This Liberal government has failed the Upper Yonge Village Homebuyers Association and many other home buyers. We must put an end to home-buying families being used as pawns by builders. We can do this through my amendment to the Planning Act, which I will table in the House later this afternoon. I urge the Minister of Municipal Affairs, who is sitting in the House at the present moment, to move on this particular item so that home buyers will be protected and not be subject to this abuse in the future.

LICENSING OF MOTOR BOAT OPERATORS

Mr McLean: My statement is for the Solicitor General and it concerns private member’s Bill 8,

An Act to provide for the Licensing of Motor Boat Operators.

According to a report aired on last night’s edition of CBLT’s Monitor, there are more than one million boats in Ontario and this province has more boats per capita than anywhere else in North America. Today’s boats are bigger and faster and some can attain speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour. Yet you need no training, no testing. There are no age limits and a licence is not required to operate a boat on Ontario waters.

In 1988 there were 54 fatalities due to boating accidents in Ontario. This is unacceptable, especially when you consider that we require a licence for everyone who wants to operate a car, truck and all-terrain vehicle, but there are no licensing requirements for the operators of motor boats.

As members know, my bill requires an operator to have a licence, sets age limits and requires a written examination or the completion of a boat operation course. It sets fines and creates the offences of careless operation and impaired operation of a motor boat.

The minister should not rely on the interministerial boating jurisdiction committee to come up with a solution, because that group has been talking for seven years and no action has been taken. He should pass Bill 8 and reduce the number of boating accidents and deaths on Ontario’s waterways this summer.

ROBERT D. LOREE

Mr Elliot: The Marshall McLuhan Centre on Global Communications is honouring the 10 Ontario Marshall McLuhan Distinguished Teacher Award winners at a luncheon to be held this Thursday 29 March at the Sutton Place Hotel.

The Marshall McLuhan Distinguished Teacher Award program is intended to benefit the educational community as a whole by honouring teachers who have made a contribution to the improvement of the quality of education in Ontario through innovation and the effective use of learning technologies and methodologies.

Such a teacher is Robert D. Loree of Halton region, who has founded the Science Can! Awards, a noncompetitive science award program for all Canadian school-age young people. The purpose of that program is to encourage all young people to become more involved in science, technology and the world around them and to encourage adults to have an increased interest in and responsibility for the science education of young people.

The establishment of the Science Can! Award program has also resulted in Mr Loree being granted a 1990 Hilroy Fellowship Award of $2,500. This award again is for innovation in teaching methodology and for sharing expertise with as many teaching colleagues as possible.

As Bob Loree receives the second of his awards for innovation in teaching methodology this Thursday, we wish him well and thank him sincerely for developing a most worthwhile science program for all school-age young people.

MUNICIPAL FINANCES

Miss Martel: Tomorrow evening the regional municipality of Sudbury will finally conclude its budget deliberations. The process has taken weeks and it has been a long and frustrating battle to cut costs where none can be cut. It became very clear that this government’s decision to freeze the level of unconditional grants to municipalities is having a huge negative impact upon them.

In Sudbury’s case it was decided that across the board, increases would be held to 10 per cent. In the social services department, however, the provincial commitments the department is required to meet run far above that 10 per cent ceiling. In the last year alone, the provincial government has imposed the following: changes to the supports to employment program, back-to-school allowance and dependent children funding under general welfare assistance; increases in the salaries of homemakers; establishment of the employer health levy and the resulting payout; implementation of pay equity legislation and, finally, implementation of cost sharing of foster child payouts.

While the region agrees the changes are necessary, the provincial commitments result in a budget increase of some 18 per cent. Not one penny has been given to the region by this Liberal government to effect these changes. The funding crisis has left the region barely able to meet its necessary expenses and not able to provide necessary programs. While 105 new day care spaces are available, the region cannot afford payment of its share of these spaces.

This government has caused our municipalities great grief. It is high time unconditional grant levels were raised to truly meet the needs of our communities.

SKILLS TRAINING

Mrs Cunningham: My statement today is directed to the minister of all education. Yesterday the minister announced that the government will be funding eight pilot project career information centres operated by school boards across Ontario. The minister should be aware that if we are to remain competitive in the new global economy, Ontario desperately needs a highly skilled and adaptable workforce. Skills training is critical to our ability to meet the challenge.

Unfortunately, today there is a mismatch between our education programs and our labour market needs. It is appalling that in Ontario our current high school dropout rate is 30 per cent. Instead of establishing career information centres, the government should be ensuring that programs are available in schools so students are trained in technical trades.

We must embark upon a vigorous change in the way we educate and train our students so they will want to stay in school and complete their programs. The government must work together with business, industry and unions to make certain that on-the-job training and apprenticeship programs are more accessible and meaningful to the students we serve.

If the government is truly committed to training Ontario’s youth, the minister should be ensuring that meaningful training programs are available in the schools so that students not only will have an opportunity to graduate from our secondary schools but will have training experience to ensure that they are competitive in the real world of work.

FOOD BANKS

Mrs Fawcett: During the week of 5 March the standing committee on social development examined the use of food banks. That was a very enlightening experience for me.

I had the opportunity to again visit our food bank in Cobourg, where I talked with Marion Dingman and Heidi Sargent about the work that the Cobourg-Port Hope food banks do under the careful guidance of the chairman, Gerry Trew. I was most impressed to hear how this organization has developed since Harrison Milne was so deeply involved, how they receive the willing support of many church groups and community organizations. Volunteers like Jackie Nuen and Marg Whitfield are never in short supply.

But the one thing made clear to me was that to simply eliminate food banks will not solve the problems poor people face. What we must address is why the need for food banks exists. Our government is doing just that through the initial implementation of the Social Assistance Review Committee report, through budgetary increases since 1985 to the ministry, through rent-geared-to-income and non-profit housing and through elimination of OHIP premiums to the working poor.

However, poverty and the elimination of food banks cannot be addressed solely through the efforts of the province. We must all take up the challenge and broaden the focus to include public and private interest groups and the federal government. Without real partnerships, without all the key players sitting at the table, we will lack the necessary tools to fight the root causes of poverty.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION

Hon Mr Scott: I am pleased today to announce the creation of a $1,125,000 fund for dispute resolution in Ontario. Over the next four years the fund, administered by an arm’s-length board of directors, will provide incentives to lawyers, social scientists and, most important of all, community justice advocates to carry out research and evaluation in the field of alternative dispute resolution, or ADR as it is popularly known.

ADR techniques such as mediation and arbitration offer a complementary alternative to litigation, the traditional method of resolving disputes between parties in our justice system.

The fund represents the collaborative efforts of three major donors: the Ministry of the Attorney General in the amount of $500,000, the Donner Canadian Foundation in the amount of $320,000, and the Law Foundation of Ontario in the amount of $300,000.

The fund will be administered, subject to the board of directors, on behalf of the contributors by The Network: Interaction for Conflict Resolution of Kitchener, a national nonprofit organization active -- indeed the leader -- in the ADR field in Canada.

Establishment of the ADR fund represents an extraordinary opportunity for co-operation between government and the private sector and for blending the experience of judges and lawyers with that of mediators, arbitrators, academics and community justice advocates in individual communities.

In addition to the participation of my ministry, the Donner Canadian Foundation and the Law Foundation of Ontario, other groups have expressed an interest in contributing to the fund. We welcome their active participation over the next couple of months.

Alternative dispute resolution techniques can be used in a variety of circumstances and in a variety of ways. Arbitration and conciliation have long been used effectively, and to great advantage, in resolving labour relations disputes. Family mediation, though contentious in many respects, has an increasing number of advocates. The use of ADR is widespread in the United States on the assumption that it reduces the financial burden on the justice system, reduces the time and cost for litigants and provides a more satisfactory experience for the parties than the adversarial process of litigation.

Interest in Canada in applying ADR to a broader range of problems is burgeoning. In fact, this Legislature’s standing committee on administration of justice, under the chairmanship of the honourable member for Ottawa West, is conducting hearings at this time to examine the different faces of ADR and its value in resolving and even reducing conflict in society. I can tell members that I have had occasion to read the transcripts of that legislative committee in full, and I believe that what we are proposing today will supplement the important work it is doing in analysing policy decisions that may be made by future governments or this government about ADR.

However, the lesson we have learned from a decade of American experience is that rigorous evaluation must accompany all experiments. The fund, under its independent board, will target legal and social research aimed at evaluating the capacity of ADR to reduce costs and delays and to determine whether it provides a more satisfactory means of resolving disputes between parties without diminishing legal or constitutional rights. Educational projects which encourage the use of effective ADR techniques will be funded.

At the end of four years, all of the participants in the justice system will have the benefit of this research to guide them in the development of future policy and programs for ADR.

Advocates -- and I am one of them -- argue that ADR has great promise. To determine its future role in the justice system, ADR must be tested on the ground in Ontario. The fund for dispute resolution will encourage this evaluation.

The Speaker: The Minister of Education, Colleges and Universities, and Skills Development.

Hon Mr Conway: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. You do that with an inflection that almost makes me think of the member for London North; but I want to get on with the statement.

LINKAGE PROJECTS

Hon Mr Conway: One of the challenges facing education today is the speed at which the labour market is changing -- an observation that my friend from London was making earlier this afternoon. This is especially the case for the skilled trades, where the impact of technology has transformed the very nature of employment.

If Ontario is to be competitive in the more international market of the future -- as I am sure my friend from York South would want it to be -- we must adapt the educational system in ways that ensure students headed for this major employment market progress smoothly from one stage of education to the next. One way we can do this is by forging and strengthening partnerships between educational institutions to better help high school students evaluate their employment options and to make decisions that are both relevant and personally fulfilling.

For these reasons, I am pleased to announced today that the Ontario government is funding 44 school-college linkage projects between Ontario’s secondary schools and a number of provincial colleges of applied arts and technology. These linkage projects represent all regions of Ontario and are intended to increase access to, and success in, college programs for a wider range of students.

A total of $910,000 has been allocated by the government of Ontario to support these projects, each of which will receive between $10,000 and $30,000. Most of them will also be funded by the colleges and school boards involved. Overall, the provincial government, colleges and school boards will spend more than $2.8 million on this important initiative.

Each project is based on a formal agreement between one or more school boards and one or more colleges of applied arts and technology. The institutional links so formed will allow school and college teachers to co-ordinate their efforts to help students plan and to achieve their goals. In particular, the projects will make possible the identification of those secondary level courses, skills and levels of performance that will best prepare students for specific college programs leading to a chosen career path.

Formalizing partnerships in this way will also help schools and colleges to build continuity into their programs. In some cases, students will also be able to earn advance standing or preferred admission at a community college for their high school work.

Many of the projects receiving this startup funding are aimed at improving access to college programs for specially targeted groups such as women, francophones, native peoples, exceptional students and those who are members of visible minorities. It is hoped that the closer co-ordination of schools and colleges will enhance opportunities for the success of these groups.

Some projects will also focus on the needs of students in basic and general level secondary programs who intend to pursue post-secondary studies.

I consider these school-college linkage projects to be very important. They will build upon those initiatives already being undertaken by this government to assist students in finding their personal niche in a marketplace full of new and exciting possibilities.

If Ontario is to be competitive in the global economy, we must first ensure that every student in this province has access to a full range of educational options. The development of individual potential should be a goal that concerns us all, and I believe that these closer links between secondary schools and the community colleges represent one very important way we can play a major role in realizing this most important objective.

The Speaker: Are there any other ministerial statements? If not, responses.

Mr R. F. Johnston: I gather the Minister of Health wanted to respond, but if I could go first. I would appreciate that.

RESPONSES

LINKAGE PROJECTS

Mr R. F. Johnston: I want to compliment the minister for coming forward with an initiative that one might consider to be an obvious thing to do -- establish linkages between the schools and the colleges -- but I want to say that I am absolutely perplexed by the timing of this.

We have a process under way, which I am sure the minister is aware of, called Vision 2000, which is doing a review of the college system and its linkages to the school system and to the universities to discover what should be the future of those institutions. It is not as though we are expecting this review to come down a year or two from now after some provincial election. This review is on line; it is, as I learned yesterday, going along very nicely and it is imminent in its release.

If we put this kind of announcement by this government in that context, this becomes almost a slap in the face to the people who are involved in the Vision 2000 process. Why should they not be a little suspicious that the government is trying to circumvent the process a little bit, move a little bit in the directions that they probably will be recommending, but then ignore them and their long-term recommendations that will be coming out in just a matter of weeks, from what we hear? What strange timing. Why this today?

Also, if this were some sort of comprehensive program, then we might think this has been something which has been in the works a long time, which the players in Vision 2000 know all about and are not going to be surprised about when they see this coming out today. But in point of fact there is all sorts of mealy-mouthed wording in this which makes it unclear that this is a system-wide kind of process. Are all the province’s colleges of applied arts and technology involved? No -- very interesting -- a number.

If this is something that we think is important, having linkages between our high schools and our colleges, why are not all of them being involved? Why do we have a half-thought-out kind of announcement weeks before the major review on colleges takes place? What is going on here? This government is obviously playing fast and loose with people who are taking a process of review very, very seriously.

ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION

Mr Kormos: First, the Attorney General’s announcement is not totally unexpected, and indeed he is quite right, the standing committee on administration of justice -- and we participated in that process -- has been discussing alternative dispute resolution and hearing from a number of witnesses now for several weeks.

It is remarkable, though, that funds could be found to this extent for this program when it juxtaposes and parallels what the justice committee has been doing right here in the Legislature and when programs like support and custody order enforcement programs have been wallowing in extremely heavy case loads and being particularly ineffective at producing results for those people.

Women with orders for payment of child support have been going without funds, relying on support and custody order enforcement, relying on the government to deliver, to help them in time of need, and the government is not funding these programs. These programs are not delivering to those women and those fatherless children in times of need. Programs like supervised access, which are incredibly important to parents, to grandparents and to children, remain unfunded and again rely upon either volunteerism or the sorts of charity that one should think went out of style at the turn of the century.

Community legal clinics across Ontario suffer first from cutbacks by this government and then from a freeze on funding such that their services are not available to people across Ontario who need them. We have agreed in principle with the concept of developing alternative dispute resolution. However, we caution this government to heed the comments of groups like the Ontario Association of Interval and Transition Houses, which has great concerns about what alternative dispute resolution means for battered women and for the children of battered women.

OAITH made a submission to the justice committee indicating that it has gone through a whole lot of effort and energy to make the courts and the judicial system more responsive. Now they are being told that concepts like wife battering should be regarded not as a crime but as an unfortunate manner of behaviour that could be rectified by mediation and counselling.

We join with OAITH in telling this government there is no way that wife battering, child abuse and spousal abuse can be diminished by virtue of incorporating it into dispute resolution. We insist that those issues remain crimes dealt with by criminal courts.

LINKAGE PROJECTS

Mrs Cunningham: I would like to take the opportunity to speak to the statement by the minister of all education with regard to the changes he has proposed today. In spite of my hard work in this Legislative Assembly and his quick response today to a concern, but not in the right arena, we are talking about on-the-job training for young students in the intermediate early high school years. We are looking for opportunities in apprenticeship programs separate from colleges and universities.

We are talking about, in the beginning, the 30 per cent of young people who leave our school system because they do not like the program and they want to work with their hands, they want to get their certificates and they want to know that they have a job afterwards. We are not talking about students who always want to go to colleges and universities. I would very much appreciate if the minister would listen more carefully to my statements and respond accordingly.

ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION

Mr Sterling: Here we are, two and a half years into our term of this Parliament, and the government has started to make election announcements already. I wonder if this government, if it were ever returned, would start election announcements one year after its next time around. Two and a half years in and we have the first election announcement this afternoon in this Legislature.

Alternative dispute resolution, as the Attorney General has said, is under consideration by the standing committee on administration of justice of this Legislature. The Attorney General did not have the courtesy to wait for the report of that committee before prioritizing his expenditures on what would be best suited to address the problem of creating ADR mechanisms in this province.

Yesterday afternoon his parliamentary assistant came to the committee and said to the members of the committee, “I’m sorry; the Attorney General is going to go ahead with this announcement,” notwithstanding the fact that we have not yet issued our report. This government has a total lack of regard for the committees of this Legislature and what they are doing. We condemn this announcement today, and we think it will probably be a total waste of the taxpayers’ money.

Mr Jackson: The objectives of alternative dispute resolution are worthy and valuable of support and consideration for Ontario. However, we are hopeful that this Attorney General would know, if he has read the transcripts of the standing committee on administration of justice -- and as a member of that committee I would remind him -- that a large group of Ontario citizens who expressed specific concern about the government’s hidden agenda in bringing in no-fault divorce in this province, which is similar to the plan that it is using from California.

The Attorney General knows that the Family Law Reform Coalition, the Metro Action Committee on Public Violence Against Women and Children, the Ontario Association of Interval and Transition Houses, the Barbra Schlifer Commemorative Clinic and a growing number of women’s groups concerned about violence are concerned about mediation plans that affect families in the midst of violent situations.

I would hope that the Attorney General would be sensitive to those issues, and I would hope that the Attorney General would expand his own narrow vision in terms of reform and ADR to include school boards and one of the most exciting programs made available to the children of Ontario, and that is peer mediation programs in our schools. I would hope that the minister would look with equal favour on those strong recommendations.

I represent a community where student violence has increased. Three students were shot in Ontario a few weeks ago. It strikes me that if the minister has the capacity to look upon that situation, he would know that we would do a great service to the children of this province to empower them with the skills in how to deal with disputes, how to resolve peaceably, how to be trained in those skills, so that as they go through life, as they confront problems in their marriage, in their family life and in their work environment, our school system has given them a curriculum that equips them with those.

I would ask the minister not just simply to narrow his pilot projects to the Attorney General’s office and the law association, but to look with equal favour on the children of this province and expand peer mediation programs in Ontario schools.

Hon Mrs Caplan: I believe we have unanimous consent to introduce some special visitors in the gallery today?

The Speaker: Is there unanimous consent?

Agreed to.

EVENTS IN EASTERN EUROPE

Hon Mrs Caplan: Today in the visitors’ gallery we have some very special visitors. There are four children here from Armenia, survivors of the earthquake, who are being cared for and treated by the Hospital for Sick Children. They have all had their surgeries and are doing very, very well and I would ask us all to acknowledge them. I will read their names into the record: Hrant Mardirossian, Ana Avdolian, Varsik Ajemian, Yenouk Grishkian, and his father, Henry Grishkian, is here as well.

Mr B. Rae: In welcoming the children from Armenia to our midst, I wonder if I might have the indulgence of the House to report on a phone conversation that I had about an hour ago with a family that I stayed with in Lithuania. I think it would be of interest to the many members of the House who travelled with us on the delegation.

I want to report to the House -- and I discussed it with my colleague from Scarborough, who has also received some news -- that, as members perhaps will have heard but I can confirm, several Lithuanian citizens who refused to enter the Soviet army because they feel it to be an army of occupation were taken from hospital and from psychiatric institutions where they were trying to seek asylum. I have reports that they, as well as members of the Lithuanian police who attempted to intervene on their behalf, were severely beaten. The report I heard at lunchtime today was that one of the policemen was so severely beaten that his brain was damaged.

There are also, naturally, reports of extensive troop movements in the capital of Lithuania. My host said, when I spoke to him on the phone just a couple of hours ago: “There are policemen everywhere. It is very different from when you were here just a couple of weeks ago.”

I am sure I am expressing the mood of the entire House when I express my horror at what has happened and express our fervent hope that the Soviet occupying authority will come to its senses and will finally recognize the right of the Lithuanian people to seek independence, their right to sovereignty and their right to live in peace and freedom, which was the right and desire we universally heard throughout that wonderful country which we were able to visit just a few short weeks ago.

Mr Brandt: I want to join with my colleagues in welcoming the young students from Armenia to our Legislative Assembly.

We in Ontario have always had a history and a tradition of extending a helping hand to those from other parts of the world. That, I am pleased to say, is continuing and we trust your visit here with us will be one that you will look back on with joy over the years.

I wanted to comment as well, very briefly, on the Lithuanian situation. I would hope, from what the Leader of the Opposition has said, that cooler heads will prevail and the situation will not continue to deteriorate. We as a Legislature have had some interest in that situation in that we were invited to participate, as members are well aware, in the first free elections in Lithuania as observers.

With all the very favourable and very positive information that was coming out of the eastern European countries and some of the Soviet satellite countries over the course of the past few months, I think the euphoric feeling we had here in the free world was that this move would continue to happen rather unabated and without the kind of impediments that appear to be cropping up very quickly in the country of Lithuania.

I know I share the sentiments of all my colleagues in this House when I say, and join with them in saying, that I trust something will occur in regard to the deterioration of that situation that will cause it to get back on to a more acceptable foundation so that the people of Lithuania can move towards freedom and democracy, which is the very clear wish and desire on the part of their country. Hopefully this situation will be brought under control very shortly. I too am very concerned about what has been happening. Certainly it does not look good at the present time.

Mr Fleet: As one of the individuals who had the opportunity to travel to Lithuania, I want to share with the previous speakers my extreme concern, and also to convey to all members and to the public in Ontario the sense of optimism, the sense of determination and the sense of proceeding in a peaceful and democratic way which was so pervasive when we were in Lithuania.

To now learn of a series of escalations on the part of the Soviet armed forces to lead to increasing acts of violence, I must say, I find increasingly distressing. Of course, we all agree that there is a strong need and really a moral requirement for the Soviets to cease this kind of continued provocation and violence. I would like to remind members that both Mr Gorbachev and Mr Shevardnadze here in Canada had indicated they would not be using force in this way and they have not kept their word.

I would also like to point out to members that the expressions we received while we were in Lithuania have been repeated by the current president, President Landsbergis, when he calls for our assistance, because they believe this is an opportunity for us to have input, to make a clear statement that this will in fact assist people in Lithuania who are completely peaceful and who are determined as much as possible to avoid any violence. But it is clear that there are provocations being created by the Soviets.

Last, although it has been mentioned already by one of the members of my caucus, I would like to stress also my personal pleasure to have this opportunity to welcome all the children who have survived the very difficult earthquake in Armenia. We are delighted to have them here.

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CONCERNS AT SCHOOLS

Mr B. Rae: I have a question for the Minister of Education. I wonder whether the minister would share my view that teachers and parents, particularly parents, should be entitled to inspect the schools which their children are attending, should be entitled to have access to those schools, should be entitled to choose technical advisers with respect to the presence of asbestos in those schools and that those rights are ones that should be provided for. If the minister does share that view, I wonder what he intends to do to make that right effective today.

Hon Mr Conway: I certainly accept the view that ratepayers to a school board have very clear rights to understand what is going on within the facilities of the board to which they pay rates. School board accommodation is a matter of local board responsibility and I would expect the parents, staff and students to take those matters up with the relevant school board.

Mr B. Rae: We have an immediate problem today, and the problem could get very much larger, I would suggest, unless the minister is prepared to take some positive steps to ensure that parents have access to information, that they have access to independent advice and that, in particular, they are given a degree of guarantee that they themselves can have a look-see at what is wrong and what is right, that they can get answers to questions and that if they seek independent advice, the right to that independent advice will be respected.

The minister will know that the Metropolitan Separate School Board has written to Mr Gray, or its lawyers have written to Mr Gray, indicating that he is not welcome on any school properties and that indeed he will be regarded as a common trespasser if he appears on school property. In fact, he had to leave a school in my constituency. Does the minister believe that the parents of that school, Our Lady of Victory, have a right to choose the adviser and that that adviser should have the right to access to the school on their behalf?

Hon Mr Conway: I repeat to my learned friend the Leader of the Opposition, who knows it very well, that in this province we have locally elected school boards which, under the Education Act, have very clear responsibilities; one of those responsibilities is of course the facilities, the accommodation. I would be the first to tell my friend what he would know, and that is that the rights of parents, staff and ratepayers are very clear. I would strongly encourage parents and staff and others within a board jurisdiction to pursue those rights with the relevant authorities. In this case, so far as accommodation is concerned, that discussion ought to be with the particular school board.

Mr B. Rae: I think the Minister of Education has a leadership role here. We know, for example, that the rights of the teachers are set out in the Occupational Health and Safety Act. The rights of caretakers are set out in the Occupational Health and Safety Act. The rights of parent-teacher associations and the rights of parents who are members of parent-teacher associations with respect to access to the schools in a matter of this kind are not set out in any legislation, and the minister knows that.

This is a very sensitive issue. It is very important that parents have complete confidence, that they have access to information and that they have the right to inspect and the right to choose their own advisers and the right for those advisers to be able to inspect. Otherwise, we are not going to get a resolution of this issue. I want to ask the minister, why is he so reluctant to play a constructive leadership role, when that is obviously what is required?

Hon Mr Conway: I am quite prepared to discharge my responsibilities in regard to the requirements of the Education Act. I said to the honourable leader’s colleague the member for Scarborough West yesterday that over the past number of years the Ministry of Education has provided millions of dollars to school boards to deal with the asbestos concern. My colleague the Minister of Labour has very clear responsibilities in so far as the health and safety questions here are concerned.

I would certainly expect that school boards would discharge their responsibilities and I repeat, the issues surrounding accommodation and access to facilities in these and related matters fall entirely within the purview of locally elected school boards. I would fully expect, and strongly encourage, those school trustees with these responsibilities to address the very real concerns of ratepayers in regard to issues of this kind.

TIRE TAX

Mr B. Rae: A question to the Minister of Revenue: I wonder if the minister can explain why the renter of a car, in this instance it happens to be my colleague the member for Lake Nipigon, who rented a car from the Avis rental agency –

Hon Mr Peterson: A Mercedes?

Mr B. Rae: No, I do not think it is a Mercedes. The Premier asks.

Mrs Grier: A North American car, of course.

The Speaker: Order.

Mr B. Rae: The car rental agreement provides for a tax. The sales tax in Ontario, the minister will know, is eight per cent, but this agreement provides for a tax of 8.3 per cent, which I understand is a surplus being charged by the rental company because of an agreement with the government of Ontario that this is how consumers are going to pay for the tire tax. I wonder if the minister can tell us, is that the case, and can he tell us under what legislative authority this kind of surtax is being imposed on consumers?

Hon Mr Mancini: The matter that the honourable leader refers to is an agreement which was made by my predecessor and the industry. The matter was one that received some considerable discussion, I understand. It was felt that the tire tax could be collected in a fair manner by having all persons who would be using and renting the cars pay a fair share of the tire tax and not having, for example, the first person renting the vehicle paying the entire tax on the tires.

Mr B. Rae: This government’s appetite knows no bounds.

Hon Mr Conway: That coming from a socialist.

Hon Mr Scott: There are only about five socialists over there.

Hon Mr Conway: They are all retired.

The Speaker: Order. Are you finished?

Mr Pouliot: Mr Speaker, I was robbed and they are all laughing. This is a serious matter.

The Speaker: Order. You could have asked the question.

Mr B. Rae: I did not know heckling from the chair was permitted, Mr Speaker.

I do not see this in the act, and maybe the minister can point it out to me. The act says very clearly that you have to rent a car for at least seven days before you should be charged the tire tax. It is my understanding from discussions with ministry officials that the minister has invented a new system whereby people who rent cars for less than 30 days are all being charged this new, special rate of 8.3 per cent. I would like to ask the minister, why it is that this secret tire tax deal has not been made public and what is his legislative authority for bringing in this secret tire tax deal?

Hon Mr Mancini: There is no secret tax. I want to say to the Leader of the Opposition that his colleague spoke to me late last week and brought the matter to my attention, and I promised his colleague here in the House that I would review the matter. I have received some information, but not all that I have requested. I understand that these were the arrangements that were made at that time. When I am finished reviewing the matter again, I will get back to the House.

Mr B. Rae: There is a very basic issue here of public policy. You have a sales tax rate which is set by the legislation, you have a tire tax which was imposed by the Treasurer, and now we have a new rate. You might call it the Remo rate, the rate that is being charged to people who are subject to a special deal. I want to ask the minister, where is a copy of this deal, why has this deal not been made public and can he tell us how much money he is planning to raise under this deal as opposed to how much money he was planning to raise under the tire tax before he signed the deal? Those are facts that should be made public, and he ought to make them public.

Hon Mr Mancini: Remo has not done anything except promise the member’s colleague that he would review the matter. That is exactly what Remo has done. The member’s colleague spoke to Remo last week and the good Minister of Revenue, Remo, said he would review it. And that is what Remo is going to do.

INVESTMENT IN ONTARIO

Mr Brandt: My question is to the Premier. A very disturbing report has just been released by the Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association of Canada. That report indicates very clearly that Ontario, during the term of the Premier’s government, has deteriorated from being one of the best investment locations in North America to being perhaps the worst location in North America for new investment in the automotive industry.

Surely this kind of report should be disturbing to the Premier as well in that it will have a very specific impact on future investment decisions that are going to be made with respect to our province. Since his government paid for part of this particular report, I wonder if he could share with this House what he plans on doing to change the attitude of the auto parts manufacturing association since they now say no to Ontario.

Hon Mr Peterson: I think the Treasurer could help my friend and explain some of the things that the report overlooked.

Hon R. F. Nixon: I am very glad the honourable member raised the report, because the perceptions that the report is disseminating are erroneous in that we are not the worst for business decisions to locate or expand here. I think the honourable member, being a businessman himself, would agree that we have taken great steps in Canada, and particularly in Ontario, to see that we have maintained our competitive position.

There are a number of specific matters that the report the honourable member refers to seems to have overlooked in the statistical aspects, not the least of them being the fact that we have premium-free medicare here, which as he knows, compared with any jurisdiction in the United States, is attractive indeed. Not only does it provide excellent care, but the cost to industries which choose to provide this service for their employees is far below that which must be paid in the United States and which is escalating at a rate of from 20 per cent to 35 per cent.

There is a list of these things that I would like to bring to the honourable member’s attention but, since the Speaker is now glaring at me, perhaps we could let this go to a further part of his question.

Mr Brandt: I would like to point out, since the question was referred to the Treasurer, that it is as a result of his policies that the comparative advantage in investing in Ontario compared to Quebec has eroded from a 10 per cent tax advantage in this province to a tax advantage which has virtually been wiped out as a result of the employer health levy and other initiatives that the Treasurer has taken in isolation from other jurisdictions, and without, I might add, giving consideration to our competitive position in an overall sense.

The fact of the matter is, this report will be widely circulated and will impact not only on the automotive industry but on other investment decisions made by other potential industrialists. Is it not a fact that our competitive position, forgetting about medicare compared to the United States but looking only at Quebec, has in fact deteriorated very substantially?

Hon R. F. Nixon: Our position vis-à-vis Quebec still is an excellent one. I want to quote from one aspect of the information that is associated with the report that is typical of some of the exclusions that concern me. In the Canadian Tax Journal there is a reference to the fact that provincial investment incentives, including Ontario’s current cost adjustment, have prevented Canada from losing its advantage relative to the United States in terms of the taxation of manufacturing investment in machinery and equipment, and that loss was on a basis of federal tax reform.

It is a bit inappropriate, I suppose, but I will say it anyway: The honourable member, having read the report, would have noticed that since it deals in perception rather than facts, although the facts as the authors see them are tabulated, it asks the question specifically of manufacturers in Quebec where they would locate if they had an opportunity to do so, and in a large majority of the cases, the answer was Ontario.

Mr Brandt: No question. I find myself able to agree with the Treasurer on one point: In terms of geographic location we do have an advantage. Were it the position of his government and were he in a position to so do, he would probably move Ontario to the North Pole or someplace and get rid of that last advantage we have got.

When he introduced the employer health levy, a report from the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Technology indicated very clearly that this was going to have a negative impact on the province, that it would slow down job creation and that in fact any decisions made with respect to new industrial and economic decisions in this province would not be favourable as a direct result of the additional $2.5 billion that the Treasurer is taking out of the economy. Why did the Treasurer not listen to the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Technology when it shared with him its concerns about the additional taxes that he extracted from industry in Ontario?

Hon R. F. Nixon: Mr Speaker, I think you and the members would agree that we offer services in this province that are far in excess of those available in most jurisdictions. While companies seeking to locate and expand are concerned about taxation costs, an area in which we are completely competitive, they are also looking at other significant matters, particularly the currency exchange costs. I was concerned today to see that the value of the Canadian dollar had moved up above 85 cents. This is a substantial deterrent when it comes to decisions between the United States and Canada, which must concern everyone.

If the honourable member is not going to allow his anxiety to infect the whole province, I think he should be aware that the most recent report from Statistics Canada, March 1990, on a survey of investment intentions indicates that business plans to spend $33.2 billion on capital expenditures in 1990, a 5.5 per cent increase over 1989. Perhaps we would like that at a higher rate. As a matter of fact, a couple of years ago the 5.5 per cent rate was more like 12 per cent, but this is a clear indication that we are not being abandoned by those people who have the responsibility to invest capital, which has assumed international importance. We are among the leaders of that sort of expansion.

COURT SECURITY

Mr Brandt: I have a question for the Premier. Knowing how modest his government and cabinet members are with respect to the economic affairs of Ontario, I want to ask the Premier about courtroom security in Bill 187. He indicated in a comment he made in Kingston that he was not prepared to review the grant structure for municipalities as it relates to this additional burden, this additional cost, which he has simply passed on to municipalities.

Since the time that he has made that comment, there have been courtrooms which have not been opened or were forced to close as a result of inadequate funding for those particular facilities on a local level. In recognition of the fact that some of the numbers are before him and that he knows exactly what those costs are, and having heard from the Attorney General on this earlier when he indicated it would not be an additional cost to municipalities, is he prepared to do what is right and proper and pick up some of the burden that municipalities are faced with in funding their program of courtroom security?

Hon Mr Peterson: The Attorney General can bring my honourable friend up to date on this matter, which I know he is concerned about.

Hon Mr Scott: The question betrays two assumptions that are unfortunately not correct. The first is, with the exception of the city of Toronto, with which the previous government of unhappy memory entered into an agreement to deal specifically with courtroom security, courtroom security has always been a municipal responsibility in Ontario and funded under the unconditional grant.

I would remind the honourable member that this was acknowledged in 1985, when the honourable member’s party, desperate to cling to office one more year, indicated to the municipalities that it would expand the unconditional grant by, I think, 50 cents per household to take account of the additional costs of courthouse security.

The one thing the honourable member will want to know -- and if he would like to phone Mr Timbrell, if he is not running a conference, he can tell him -- is that this has always been a police responsibility in Ontario. The other assumption –

Interjections.

Hon Mr Scott: I seem to be getting some activity over there, Mr Speaker, some signs of life. Shall I reserve the rest for the inevitable supplementary?

The Speaker: Our standing orders do allow that, so I will recognize the member for Sarnia.

Mr Brandt: The Attorney General will be pleased to know that the inevitable supplementary is going to incorporate a quote from one of his cabinet colleagues, who early this month in North Bay said -- and I am quoting the Minister of Municipal Affairs, who sits very close to him -- with respect to the funding for courtroom security:

“In my travels around the province” -- presumably Ontario – “I have learned the total resources required is more than what is built into unconditional grants. I have reported this to cabinet, that we need to take another look at it.”

Does the Attorney General agree with his colleague, a learned, honest, straightforward gentleman, or is he going to attempt to fudge the issue and pretend that this program is not costing municipalities literally millions upon millions of dollars which he has simply foisted off on them?

Hon Mr Scott: It is a lot easier and certainly more comfortable to agree with my colleague than with the leader of the third party, who again has it wrong.

As I was saying before I was interrupted by the cacophonous refusal to listen to my previous answer, the second assumption in the honourable member’s question is that courtrooms are not operative or are closing because of a resistance on the part of municipal authorities to provide in the traditional way the courtroom security that they have always, in my 25 years of practice, provided.

In fact, out of the 235 courtrooms in the province, there were two courtrooms, one, I believe, east of Ottawa and one in Belleville --

Mr Villeneuve: Alexandria. A major problem.

Hon Mr Scott: Is the member for Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry happy in his party? Since the leadership candidates have started speaking about French-language services, the honourable member has not asked a single question.

But as I was saying --

Mr Brandt: He recognizes, as I do, you need all the help you can get.

The Speaker: Thank you. Order.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order.

Mr Brandt: With respect to the cost of courtroom security, the Attorney General can attempt with his verbal gymnastics to do whatever he wishes. The fact of the matter is that Metropolitan Toronto is going to pay an additional $4.5 million. The city of London, which has the Premier as one of its representatives, will pay $120,000. For Niagara region it is $1 million. The great community of Sault Ste Marie is going to pay some $300,000 more, and the community of Sarnia some $400,000 more. That is only the beginning of the cost, which he says is nothing more than a figment of my imagination.

I wish the Attorney General would say that directly to the municipalities, because they are the ones that are going to have to increase local taxes in order to pay for a bill that he has passed on to them. Will he not accept the responsibility as Attorney General, speak to his benchmate the Treasurer, get some additional funds in those unconditional grants and absorb these increases, which are his responsibility?

Hon Mr Scott: The statements that have been made about the additional costs that are imposed are precisely that. The court administration officials in my ministry, the member will want to know, if he will just get that crowd quiet for a minute, have met with municipalities --

Mr Brandt: As you are during everyone else’s questions.

Hon Mr Scott: You see, here you go again.

Mr Brandt: Oh, I wouldn’t want to disturb you, Ian.

Hon Mr Scott: Is this time counting, Mr Speaker?

The Speaker: It is.

Hon Mr Scott: All right. The court administration officials have met with municipalities all across Ontario, who have told us that they will be obliged to spend these large sums of money. In fact, in almost every case arrangements have been made so that the increases in cost are either nonexistent or relatively modest. The honourable member will want to know that before he suggests that the costs in this bill are exorbitant.

The Minister for Municipal Affairs, quite appropriately visiting across the province, heard that the complaints were made, and I am confident that in the discharge of his duties he will analyse over the course of the year what additional expenditures in fact are made and then propose an appropriate solution. But the case I am making is that in most cases there will be no additional cost whatever.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. All members may wish to know the clock is still running.

RENT REGULATION

Mr D. S. Cooke: I have a question for the Minister of Housing regarding his rent review system and the impact it is having on a lot of tenants in Ottawa.

The minister will be aware that the financial loss provisions of his rent review legislation encourage the sales of buildings and then the tenants pay for the increased cost of the mortgages. You might say that the minister’s rent review legislation encourages owners or developers to buy high and sell higher, because the tenants are going to pick up the cost anyway.

One example is tenants who live at 300 Cooper Street in Ottawa. Their 37-unit apartment sold in 1985 for $1.5 million. Obviously the new owner was hoping at the time to convert. That was not possible, so now he has gone to rent review and he was able to get, under the minister’s financial loss provisions, a rent review increase that will allow him to get a 10 per cent increase over each of the next four years, so 40 per cent in rent increases to those tenants.

Is the minister not going to agree that tenants are getting really ripped off by this

section of his rent review legislation, and what is he going to do to protect tenants under these circumstances?

Hon Mr Sweeney: Two points: The first one is that the honourable member is probably aware of the fact that back in 1982, when we had quite an apartment flip situation in this province, there was no limitation whatsoever on how much a landlord could request through rent review as far as financial loss was concerned, and some of the approvals were quite high. As a result of that particular activity back in 1982 the legislation was changed to put the five per cent per year limitation on.

When the legislation was reviewed once again in 1986, the honourable member will recall that at that time there was representation from both sides, landlords and tenants. No one is suggesting that everyone was represented, but there was representation from both sides. When the question was put about the five per cent financial loss, neither side could come up with a better option to deal with the situation; therefore, it was left in. That is why it is still in there: because it is better than what was there before and no one has been able to come up with something better.

Mr D. S. Cooke: Perhaps the best way of dealing with this problem is for the minister to scrap his rent review legislation, which is not protecting tenants, and bring in real rent control to protect tenants across the province of Ontario.

In the absence of that, I would like to ask the minister what he is going to do to protect tenants like those at 781 and 783 Somerset in Ottawa, who are going to be paying an additional 10 per cent for the next 15 years, a rent increase of 150 per cent; or the tenants at 290 Gloucester, who are going to be paying 100 per cent over the next 10 years. I have got two pages listing buildings in Ottawa where tenants are going to be paying between 40 per cent and 150 per cent rent increases because of this loophole.

Does the minister not realize that the law has to be changed because landlords have found this loophole and are taking advantage of it at the expense of tenants? He is the only one who can protect those tenants.

Hon Mr Sweeney: Let me share with my honourable colleague that some of the cases he has drawn to my attention have come to my attention from other sources, and we are certainly taking a look at whether or not there should be a limitation on how many times this can take place.

Recently a request came from Toronto city council that we ought to look into this same situation. But there was an interesting statement by the staff of Toronto city council with respect to their motion. Let me share it with the honourable member:

“At the present time, there is little hard data which would help support or counter this motion. Anecdotal evidence is also inconclusive. There is also concern that the motion, as presently drafted, may have some unintended harmful effects on small landlords.”

The only reason I want to share that with my colleague is that it so often happens in rent review -- as he well knows, we have a complicated system because we are trying to cover so many different bases -- that we have to be careful that by making one change we do not have another unintended effect which can be even more serious.

I am quite prepared to re-examine the frequency of what the member refers to as flips, but all the evidence seems to suggest right now that the five per cent loss provision is a realistic one. By taking it out completely we could do considerable harm, particularly to smaller landlords, and my honourable colleague is well aware of the fact that the majority of landlords in this province are smaller landlords.

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Eves: I have a question of the Minister of Health. I would like to ask the Minister of Health whether she feels in her capacity that she has any responsibility whatsoever in the field of children’s mental health.

Hon Mrs Caplan: Children’s mental health programs are presently provided by the Ministry of Community and Social Services. Some programs are provided from some of the hospitals, but not specifically under the rubric of children’s mental health.

Mr Eves: The Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres has recently been very frustrated in its attempts to try to get through to this government to have something done about the 10,000 children on waiting lists in this province. They have recently publicized the case of a 15-year-old girl who attempted suicide many times. It was only after those suicide attempts that the minister’s government, or her system, provided any sort of treatment whatsoever for this child, and that was as a result of her hospitalization because of her attempted suicides.

Is that the type of concern that the minister has for the 10,000 children on waiting lists in this province, that her government has, when the only time they are prepared to do anything about them is after they attempt suicide and are hospitalized? Is that the type of commitment her government has to those 10,000 children?

Hon Mrs Caplan: Of course, the member opposite is absolutely wrong when he asks the question in the way he does. I would say to him that everyone is concerned about children’s mental health and that a decision was taken some time ago about the program being transferred to the Ministry of Community and Social Services. At the present time, the program is being reviewed, and there is no substantiation for the data he is announcing, nor is there any clear data on what those numbers actually are.

While we are all concerned about seeing that services are provided and that children have access to needed services, it is very important that we have the facts so that we can plan properly to meet those needs.

SEXUAL ASSAULT

Mr Adams: My question is for the Minister without Portfolio responsible for women’s issues. As members know, in the coming weeks thousands of young people will be graduating from our colleges and universities. As members also know, this has been a very turbulent year for women in institutes of higher education. They have been subjected to sexual harassment and sexual assault. Tragically, some of our most promising young women have been murdered in their classrooms. What is the government doing to make campuses in Ontario welcome learning environments for young women?

Hon Mrs Wilson: This government is determined to maintain safe and secure communities for every person in this province. Women have a right to feel secure in their homes, on the streets, in the workplaces and in our institutions of higher learning.

I recently announced new funding of some $28.8 million in a long-term, government-wide strategy to address the issues of sexual assault. This new strategy was developed in consultation with a government-wide interministerial committee. The Ministry of Colleges and Universities was a very active participant in that committee in developing a three-pronged approach: first, services to victims; second, justice initiatives; and third, initiatives in public education and prevention.

Mr Adams: Recently, through the Ontario women’s directorate community grants program, the Peterborough-Trent Women’s Coalition received funding from the minister to hold a three-day conference to address issues of concern to women at Trent University. I ask the minister now, will the sexual assault initiative which she mentioned have a similar funding component to assist colleges and universities in changing attitudes and raising awareness of violence against women?

Hon Mrs Wilson: An essential component of our government-wide strategy to reduce the incidence of sexual assault is a public education campaign with almost $2 million addressed to local communities to take

part in raising awareness about the myths and the facts of sexual assault in their communities. Colleges and universities are eligible to apply for those funds, and indeed announcements were being made last week and are being made this week with regard to those community grants.

I am very pleased to see that many colleges and universities are now establishing and reviewing their sexual harassment policies. Many have in fact set up commissions and task forces to look at ways that they can make recommendations to make their campuses welcoming learning environments for women. I think that universities and colleges do have an opportunity they can take to serve as models for a change in social justice and nonsexist attitudes for women as women move towards obtaining equal rights in this province.

PROTECTION FOR HOME BUYERS

Mr Farnan: My question is to the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations. This morning the minister met with representatives of the Upper Yonge Village Homebuyers Association. At that meeting, the minister clearly indicated to the group that he was personally concerned and was considering an investigation of the Crest Valley Libfeld group and its dealings with the upper Yonge home buyers. If the minister is considering an investigation, what precisely are his concerns and when can we expect the investigation?

Hon Mr Sorbara: My friend the member for Cambridge is right that I met with the organization this morning. I am not sure that he was there; perhaps he was there electronically. Had he wanted to come, he could have joined the meeting. He did not ask to come. I do not want him to suggest that this actually is authority for what I said at that time.

I expressed to the home buyers’ association some of my concerns about the circumstances which have led to the cancellation of their agreements under the Ontario New Home Warranty Program. I said to them that we have been examining the facts in that case. And as a result of the situation there, we are reviewing both the Ontario New Home Warranties Plan Act and regulations within my ministry to ensure that consumers are protected in circumstances similar to those experienced by those home purchasers.

Mr Farnan: The minister has the responsibility to protect all the consumers across the province. It would appear that the Libfeld group has failed to live up to its obligations under the Planning Act, by selling prior to draft plan approval, and under the Ontario New Home Warranties Plan Act, by failing to complete its contract with the upper Yonge home buyers with integrity and honesty.

Surely there is sufficient evidence here to warrant a thorough investigation of the Libfeld dealing with the upper Yonge home buyers and for consideration of deregistration of the Libfeld group of companies. The people of Ontario do not need a toothless tiger to protect them. If the minister has any teeth, when is he going to move to protect the home buyers of Ontario?

[Interruption]

The Speaker: I would remind all visitors that we are happy to have them here; however, they are not allowed to participate in any way or demonstrate in any way.

Hon Mr Sorbara: I regret that my friend the member for Cambridge wants to take crass political advantage of a situation confronting a number of home purchasers who would have liked to have seen the transaction closed. I just want to tell him, though --

Mr Mackenzie: The arrogance of this government.

The Speaker: Order.

Hon Mr Sorbara: -- and my friend the member for Hamilton East, if he will be quiet for a moment, that the matters he raises are now before the courts. I have no control over whether he wants to discuss those matters in public, but I do have respect for the litigants, these home buyers who are pleading their case now before the court, and the defendants in that matter as well, so I do not want to comment on those circumstances.

I just want to reiterate that if he cannot get beyond his political opportunism -- and it is rampant over there in that party -- that there are significant matters within the plan that have already been investigated. I want to tell him that the protections we have under the plan in this province are the best in Canada. If we find a defect, we will be here with legislation.

LANDFILL SITE

Mr Cureatz: I have a question for the Premier. Constituents of mine in the town of Newcastle who refer to themselves as the Committee of Clarke Constituents have sent the Premier a three-page letter dated 15 March, signed by their chairman, David Scott, expressing their concern about the possible infilling and expansion of the Laidlaw landfill site in the town of Newcastle; more particularly, just northwest of the village of Newtonville. I would like assurance from the Premier that he will be responding to the letter addressed to him within a short time.

Hon Mr Peterson: Indeed he is quite right; I did receive a letter, I think a week or so ago. It may well have been delivered by my friend opposite. It is rather complicated, so I am still looking into the matter. But I think he can tell his constituents that I am looking into the matter and I will respond as soon as I am fully apprised of the information.

Mr Cureatz: They specifically outlined the concern that they had requested environmental assessment procedures in terms of the evaluation of the infilling or expansion. It would appear that the Ministry of the Environment is pointing towards the shorter Environmental Protection Act. They conclude by asking for consideration of a moratorium so that all those involved would have ample time to make the necessary applications for possible intervener funding in all due course and with all consideration concerning this very important issue, so those constituents in the Clarke constituents’ committee will have the opportunity of airing their concerns.

Would the Premier address those three areas in his response, please?

Hon Mr Peterson: Yes, indeed I will. I think the member can assure his constituents that the most rigorous environmental standards and processes will be applied to this matter.

MINIMUM WAGE

Mr Neumann: My question is for the Minister of Labour. Recently I had the opportunity to sit as a member of the standing committee on social development. We heard presentations from delegations, mainly on the subject of food banks. It was indicated, as a reminder to the committee, that an adequate minimum wage in this province was a complementary recommendation to the other social assistance reforms implemented by the government. Does the minister agree that the minimum wage at its current level is a disincentive for people moving from dependency to self-sufficiency?

Hon Mr Phillips: The subject of what is the appropriate minimum wage is an issue that is debated here often and that will be debated once again later on this week. I meet with those same groups which are looking for a higher minimum wage and I recognize that they have some strong arguments to make.

The other side of the coin is that we look each year at how we ensure that there are job creations taking place in this province and how we ensure that in some of our industries we are competitive with surrounding jurisdictions. One industry in particular that is sensitive to this is the tourism industry. That is the other side of the coin, looking at our minimum wage versus other jurisdictions.

I might add that at $5 an hour we are the highest in Canada, although tied with Quebec at the same minimum wage, and substantially higher than any of the jurisdictions in the United States around Ontario. We are trying to weigh those two things, what is the adequate level of minimum wage and how do we ensure that we do not jeopardize jobs in some of our sensitive industries.

Mr Neumann: I understand what the minister is saying with regard to the sensitivities to the small business community. I would point out to the minister that since 1975, despite a number of increases to the minimum wage, the minimum wage has lost in excess of 22 per cent of its purchasing power. In 1975 small businesses were surviving in Ontario. Would the minister not agree that it is time at least to make up for the loss in purchasing power of the minimum wage since 1975?

Hon Mr Phillips: I mentioned earlier that we do review it each year, and we will be reviewing the minimum wage this year. Normally it is changed on 1 October. One of the things we will consider is the very matter of how the minimum wage has kept pace with inflation. I might add that over the last four years it has gone up, I think, about 25 per cent, which has been able to keep pace with inflation. I recognize that versus 1975, that is not quite the case. We will look at that as we review it.

ST ELIZABETH NURSING HOME

Mr Mackenzie: I have a question of the Minister of Health. On 5 August 1987 the Ministry of Health had no alternative but to take over the St Elizabeth Nursing Home in downtown Hamilton. Serious deficiencies in management, administration and care put the 175 residents at risk.

Successful bidders for the nursing home licence of St Elizabeth were clearly made aware of the fact that the employees were members of the Service Employees’ International Union, Local 532, and had been recognized by the ministry as having successor rights following the ministry takeover when the collective agreement was honoured. But yesterday the Minister of Labour gave no guarantee that the union has successor rights.

Can the minister explain to this House and to the employees and residents of St Elizabeth Nursing Home why her government has not enforced successor rights for the employees with the successful bidders?

Hon Mrs Caplan: I believe this question should be answered by the Minister of Labour and I would refer it to him.

Hon Mr Phillips: As I responded yesterday, it is a matter that the union now has before the Ontario Labour Relations Board. As I mentioned in my response yesterday, the expectation is that this matter, now before the Ontario Labour Relations Board, is a matter that we should leave before the Ontario Labour Relations Board for it to make the determination.

Mr Mackenzie: I think the minister owes an explanation as to why the workers should have to go through this frustrating and unnecessary delay when his own ministry recognized their successor rights and when the administrator of the hospital, Emery S. Baldry, whom the minister appointed when the takeover took place, clearly stated in a letter, dated 25 May 1988, to residents and families: “Staff will also be relocated to the new homes. A similar process will be followed to assist in their transfers as well.”

Why are these employees now faced with going through the procedures the minister is talking about when it is clearly their right to successor rights in the transfers to the new licences?

Hon Mr Phillips: If I might repeat the answer I just gave, that is a matter now before the Ontario Labour Relations Board. They will make their determination on it. I think they are in the process, if they have not already done so, of appointing a labour relations officer. As such, I think I should leave that matter with the Ontario Labour Relations Board rather than trying to interfere in its process.

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

Mr Villeneuve: My question is to the Minister of Agriculture and Food. I want to advise the Attorney General that I am here, questioning and quite happy.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Food recently announced some fairly major cutbacks in his ministry. They pertain to the Ontario pork industry improvement program, the beginning farmer assistance program and the reduction, by half, of our agricultural engineers, very important people for our farming community. Can the minister tell us how much money he will save by chopping these very popular programs and personnel, and will he channel those funds back into the ministry for some of his unfunded programs right now?

Hon Mr Ramsay: I am glad to have the opportunity to explain some of the efficiencies I am bringing to the Ministry of Agriculture and Food. As I am sure the member would agree, we think it is very important to make sure it is the clients we serve. I know many times the opposition criticizes the government for hiring too many civil servants. What we want to do is run a very efficient operation. We want to make sure our clients are served well. I just want to mention that when he talks about the ag engineers, only 27 per cent of their time was spent in dealing with clients directly.

What we have done is redesign our ag engineering department to have 12 ag engineers throughout the province, covering all the different specialties that are required.

Mr Villeneuve: Farmers are expressing real concerns that front-line staff are losing out to bureaucracy and head office personnel. I think that can be proven. The minister has an unprecedented two parliamentary assistants and has just taken on a new assistant deputy minister. Farmers are worried that soil conservation projects, such as the Ontario soil conservation and environmental protection assistance program, and land stewardship programs are not funded.

How prepared is the minister to hold the line on head office bureaucracy increases and provide continued funding for soil conservation projects, capital costs, interest rebate and farm tax reductions? I could go on and on. There has been $100 million chopped from his ministry in the last three years.

Hon Mr Ramsay: I would like to clarify the record as far as the budget goes. As the member knows, we have substantially increased the budget, by 50 per cent, in fact, since this government took over. We are balanced now around $500 million. When we took over, it was about $285 million; so there has been a substantial increase.

I want to make sure that we have a good reorganization so that we serve the clients well. I am very sensitive to the point the member makes about making sure we are not too heavy in bureaucracy, and that is the whole idea of this. I just say to the member that we are working very hard, and I hope soon to be able to talk to my honourable friend about some of the initiatives this ministry is going to bring in.

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

Mr Owen: I have a question for the Minister of Health. As of January of this year, a drug which is new to use in Canada for treatment of those suffering from Parkinson’s disease was made available and approved. The drug is Deprenyl. I am told by patients who were using this drug before that it was half the price of what it became once it was approved in January; then it became a cost of $2.41 per pill. Some of these patients who have spoken to me are of advanced years. Some are on fixed incomes. They are finding this a tremendous burden for them. Can the minister hold out any assistance to the cost of this medication to people who are suffering from Parkinson’s disease in Ontario?

Hon Mrs Caplan: I know of the member’s interest in the Ontario drug benefit plan. Also, I know he has had some inquiries from his constituents. It is the goal of the Ontario drug benefit program to provide drugs to people who are eligible under the program which will give them the very best therapeutic results. He knows, and members of the House should know, that the ministry relies on a panel of experts called the Drug Quality and Therapeutics Committee, which reviews submissions from manufacturers on any drugs that are to be included in the Drug Benefit Formulary.

It is my understanding that submissions have been made to the Drug Quality and Therapeutics Committee and that it is evaluating the submissions at this time. I know they must have all relevant data before they make their decision. I know the interest this matter has raised, not only in the area the member represents but in other parts of the province as well.

Mr Owen: I have been told that Deprenyl has been available in Europe for about two decades and that the cost of Deprenyl in Europe at this moment is about two to four cents per pill; remember, I stated it is about $2.41 a pill in Ontario. Does the minister have any figures as to the cost of the drug in Europe compared to the cost of the drug here, and what would be the reason for this discrepancy in cost?

Hon Mrs Caplan: I think the member, as he raises the issue of cost, recognizes that we have a responsibility to ensure that all of our programs in the province are delivered in a fiscally responsible manner. At the present time the Ontario drug benefit program is costing the taxpayers of Ontario over $600 million and this is rising at a rapid rate each year.

It is useful, I think, to examine the price of new drugs not only in Europe but also in the United States and other jurisdictions. I think price equalization may be one of the factors that are considered by the Drug Quality and Therapeutics Committee in its review of any new drugs.

I would say as well that we always look forward to and applaud the development of new drugs that will lead to the very best of therapeutic results and improve the health of the people of this province. It is important that these drugs be tested for their effectiveness. As I said, we rely on the Drug Quality and Therapeutics Committee to make those decisions on behalf of the Ministry of Health.

TORONTO AREA TRANSPORTATION

Ms Bryden: I have a question for the Minister of Transportation, if he would return to his seat. Yesterday the minister finally dropped support for one of his ministry’s most irresponsible transportation proposals, the construction of the east Metro transportation corridor through the Rouge Valley to link Highway 401 and Highway 407. This was to be a four- to eight-lane freeway to assist developers in exploiting the opportunities for high-priced housing development in the east Metro-Durham area.

I welcome the minister’s change of heart following the Premier’s announcement of a provincial park for the Rouge Valley, but is he prepared to allow adequate public consultation and a full environmental assessment on any alternative routes to be considered, so that the environmentally sensitive areas and the proposal for a wildlife preserve in the area will be protected?

Hon Mr Wrye: I of course welcome the support of my good friend the member for Beaches-Woodbine for the announcement that was made yesterday by the Premier and by my colleague the Minister of Natural Resources, which I think is one of the most significant announcements made in this province in many, many years and I am very proud to have been associated with it.

As the honourable member knows, we have protected two additional corridors, one in the Morningside Avenue area and the other in the Brock Road area. We are quite prepared, as I indicated yesterday in my statement, to subject those corridors to the fullest possible review. But I would not want my friend to believe for one minute that it is the view of this minister or of this government that roads in and of themselves provide the only solution.

As indicated in my announcement yesterday, as part of that review we will be moving forward just as aggressively as possible on making rail transportation and indeed other modes of public transportation a very important part of the future for the northeast quadrant of Metropolitan Toronto.

Ms Bryden: In the minister’s statement yesterday, he also stressed that he will be emphasizing and promoting greater use of public transit, but this appears to be a continuation of his bafflegab for the public because he has not named any projects that he intends to pursue in the way of new public transit.

I wonder if the minister is aware that the Toronto Transit Commission has recently raised its commuter parking lot rates in Metro by 75 per cent from $2 to $3.50 a day. What does he intend to do to offset this disincentive to the use of public transit as a result of the tax that the government has imposed on parking lots?

Hon Mr Wrye: I think the people of the greater Toronto area, of Metro Toronto and elsewhere, understand full well the outstanding leadership that this Premier, the Treasurer and the government have been providing in terms of public transit. I think they understand, as perhaps the honourable member does not, that we are putting nearly $200 million into capital and operating support of the Toronto Transit Commission each and every year. I think they understand full well that we have plans for $400 million in improvements over the next five years to the GO Transit system.

I think they understand, as I know that party never has, that the money must come from somewhere, and they are prepared to pay their fair share for the kind of outstanding improvements that we have on the books and that will be taking place in the next short while to the public transit system throughout the greater Toronto area.

PETITION

TEMAGAMI DISTRICT RESOURCES

Mr D. R. Cooke: I have a petition as a result of a meeting I had yesterday with a Temagami wilderness group. I will read it. It indicates:

“The Temagami wilderness is the site of the oldest and last remaining stand of original growth of red and white pines in Ontario and as such must be protected for future generations. The proposed destruction of this forest for the benefit of the logging companies will be a crime against the native inhabitants whose claim to the land has not yet been heard by the Supreme Court of Canada.”

It is signed by some 92 people.

INTRODUCTION OF BILL

PLANNING AMENDMENT ACT, 1990

Mr Farnan moved first reading of Bill 117,

An Act to amend the Planning Act, 1983.

Motion agreed to.

Mr Farnan: Basically the purpose of the bill is to amend subsection 51(1) of the Planning Act, 1983. As currently worded this provision prohibits the sale of land under an unregistered plan of subdivision, but an exception is provided to permit the sale of land under a plan of subdivision that has received draft approval under

section 50 of the act. The bill re-enacts subsection 51(1) to delete this exception.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

INTERIM SUPPLY (CONTINUED)

Resuming the adjourned debate on the motion for interim supply for the period 1 April 1990 to 30 June 1990.

The Speaker: I believe the member for Markham is catching his breath and might have a few further comments to make.

Mr Cousens: I am really pleased to be able to be back here and to carry on some discussion about this, and if I were in better shape, I would not have to be out of breath.

Mr Callahan: You’ve got to stop smoking.

Mr Cousens: Yes, indeed.

I have just a couple of things to clean up from the comments that were made yesterday. The first point has to be that when we were celebrating the decision by the Ontario government to proceed with the Rouge Valley as a provincial park, everybody, it seems, was claiming victory. Certainly our party felt that we had a large part to play in it. The Scarborough members of the Legislature, who are mostly Liberal, were there saying, “We did it.” We had the people from the cabinet, a large turnout at the Rouge yesterday, and they were all saying, “We did it.” The New Democratic Party also was pleased to say, “We too have been yelling for this.”

Everybody was saying, “We helped make it happen,” and yet one person’s name was not mentioned that should have been mentioned. I would like today to give credit to a person, a lady, who has been fighting for this who was among those who were first aware of the great need to preserve this national park. Indeed, it happens to be the parliamentary secretary to the Secretary of State, a federal member of Parliament, Mrs Pauline Browes, the member for Scarborough Centre.

I would like to put on record the strong satisfaction I have of knowing her and of putting into the record the appreciation of so many people who know that it has been her initiative from the very beginning, fighting for this park. I say that here in the presence of this House, and I would hope that the Ontario government, when it is making its statements, would give credit where it is due.

Pauline Browes is certainly someone who has been there. The $10 million that the federal government has allocated is largely because of her initiative. She was in there fighting for it and one of the reasons the federal government might hold back the money -- I will bet, though I do not know this for sure -- is Pauline Browes again, saying, “Hey, if they’re going to put a garbage dump in there, hold back your spending.” What a lady she is, and for us today to have a chance to recognize and appreciate her involvement is something that we should all do.

There is one other issue I would like to just touch upon and that has to do with what has been an ongoing saga. The Ontario New Home Warranty Program, when it was initiated, was indeed one of the best. Yet today we had a demonstration of people in front of our Legislature, a delegation that met with different members of this House. They met with the Minister for Consumer and Commercial Relations, the member for York Centre. They met with the New Democratic Party. I met with them as well.

They are fighting for their rights. Here they are, people who have read an advertisement in the paper. Someone is advertising a house for sale, so they come along and put their money down with some expectation of being able to move in at a future date -- all the things that are there. We as a government, this government, should be there to protect the small person. What has happened is that these people have no house. They do not even have hope for a house. The builder is coming along and is now not even making any guarantees or promises that he will ever complete them.

I have to say that there is a serious problem in protecting the interests of the people of this province if this government, with all its power and all its control, is not going to do something to protect the home buyer from those builders. I have to say that there are not a lot of bad builders. Most of the builders, 90 per cent of them anyway, do an excellent job. They follow up with public service. They are genuine in their commitments. They are careful to follow the guidelines. They know that their reputation is important and they do everything they can to protect it.

Yet when you have someone, as in this instance, who started to sell those homes without the draft plan even being approved, then you are talking about a situation that is not only deplorable; it should be against the law. But it is not against the law, because this government has never enacted the legislation I was fighting for five years ago when I was Housing critic. Why have they not? There has been enough time to do some of these great important jobs that this Peterson government was going to do when it got elected, and it has not done them.

Now we end up having people in Richmond Hill, in the very home riding of the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations, who are unable to gain satisfaction that there is going to be any action taken against this builder. Why? I cannot believe that a builder would be allowed to put those homes on the market for sale prematurely, without having any kind of follow-through as it should be. Does the public know about this?

I am convinced that the general public act in good faith. When they go to buy a home they assume that the law has been drafted to protect them and their interests. It is not, though, because here are 51 or 52 home buyers in Richmond Hill who bought these homes in good faith, put their money down. Now they are finding that the land on which their homes were going to be built was not even owned by the builder. The draft plan was not even in place and they do not even have the lots registered.

What in Sam Hill is going on in Richmond Hill when that kind of thing is allowed to go on? I have to say that the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations has had every opportunity to do something about it. He has met with the builder and the builder seems to be unwilling to do anything about it.

I commend that the people in Vaughan have seen fit to not allow him to continue to build in Vaughan because it was much the same circumstance coming along again. We should have some way of removing this builder’s licence to build in the province of Ontario to protect the home buyer. Why have we not done something about it? I continue to worry about this government by virtue of the fact that it is not prepared to do anything about Crest Valley Homes. I would like to see the government challenged to respond to the needs of these people, and I just do not know what it is going to take to do it.

It could be another election. I will tell the members that the 51 people in those homes will not be voting Liberal, because there is certainly no sense that this Liberal government has done anything or is going to do anything for them.

The fact is that the builder went ahead and sold these homes without the draft --

Mr Reycraft: How old is that legislation?

Mr D. S. Cooke: It was a Tory law.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Mr Cousens: There are members who are trying to speak out here, and when they have a chance to speak I will be sitting raptly in attention wondering what it is they are going to say, knowing that there will be sweet gems.

Mr D. S. Cooke: It was a Tory law.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Everybody will have a chance, and would have a chance, one after the other, not at the same time. The member for Markham will continue and address uniquely the Speaker.

Mr Cousens: What we are really talking about are the concerns of these people have who have gone along and have read the ads, “Yonge and Elgin Mills, $169,990.” The ads are very, very easy to read and believe, and then when you have come along and bought your home, you really wonder why you do not get it. You bought it and you did not get it built.

Mr D. S. Cooke: Because it was a Tory law.

Mr Cousens: If the honourable member wants to say something, I would be pleased to allow him to make his comments. This government has come out and said that it was going to do certain things. They have made the promises, but they have not responded to the needs of the people of this province.

Mr D. S. Cooke: So you are both guilty.

Mr Cousens: I called for a review of the Ontario New Home Warranty Program. I am going to end up having a conversation with this member if he is going to continue to interrupt me, Mr Speaker. I have no choice but to speak to him if you are going to allow him to speak out. Are you going to tell him to be quiet? Speak up, speak out or get out.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Only the member for Markham has the floor. The member for Markham, please, continue and address the Speaker.

Mr Cousens: One of my constituents --

Mr D. S. Cooke: Tell us why you oppose the Tory law.

The Deputy Speaker: Members, please respect the standing orders.

Mr Cousens: I think the point my constituents have made is:

“Until Crest Valley Homes and Theodore and Sheldon Libfeld honour their original purchase agreements with us, the Ontario New Home Warranty Program should not allow them to build anything anywhere in this province.

“This would send two very important messages. To the new home buyer, it would guarantee them that the new home they purchase will get built and give their badly shaken confidence in the government a tremendous boost. To the other builders in Ontario, it would clearly state that the practice of not honouring purchase agreements will absolutely not be tolerated. If potential new home buyers must wait for a change in legislation before they are fully protected and their confidence is restored, the home building industry could suffer irreparable damage.”

I think the new home industry is suffering irreparable damage now in the fact that the government is allowing this one builder of great wealth and obviously great resources to continue to build homes and to still flagrantly disobey the guidelines that we have been calling for changes in the Ontario New Home Warranty Program for some length of time. To have 50 shaken home buyers in a position where they will not get their homes is something that should be unacceptable to even the noisy New Democrats and to the complacent Liberal Party of Ontario.

If we could begin to have some consensus in this House on the fundamentals, then we would begin to protect the needs of the purchaser at all times. What I am seeing happen right here now is that there is not that sense of high regard for the rights and needs of others. That is what I am fighting for; that is what I have always fought for. I would say that we in this House should have that as a major responsibility for each one of us.

I challenge the government. As long as we continue to have the kind of situation we have now in Richmond Hill with Crest Valley Homes, we have a problem that is intolerable; it is unacceptable. I have brought forward in this House on numerous previous occasions the importance of the government changing the law so that this could not happen. Here it has happened again, and it will happen again and again until the government finally comes to terms with what the law should say.

I wanted to put that on the record, because today we had a large turnout of people from Richmond Hill coming down here to get an audience with members of the Legislature and to have their views heard. I commend my colleague the member for Cambridge, who raised a question in the Legislature on it today and made a statement on it. I am just really surprised to see that until some action is taken we are going to continue to see the same builder continue to do what he has been doing. It is just totally unacceptable.

As I closed off in the presentation yesterday I was really just trying to wrap up, but I did run out of time. I had been talking about the high cost of education and about the need for us in Ontario to come along with some long-term solutions that will begin to place education the way it should be. I was in the process of discussing some of the comments that had been made by the chairman of the York Region Roman Catholic Separate School Board in a letter to the Minister of Education. He made a number of proposals.

There were two proposals in his letter that I would like to put on the record, because I do believe that what he is really talking about is equality between both systems and equality of opportunity for the children who are going to the York region public and the York region Roman Catholic separate systems. He comes forward with two fundamental requests which will undoubtedly be discussed in the meeting that will be arranged between the separate board and the Minister of Education.

“The first proposal is that the government will provide approved costs which are reflective of actual costs incurred by the board. Examples include per-pupil grant ceilings and transportation approved costs. If provincial funds are limited, then the corresponding local share contribution can be increased. In this way the province can maintain the level of funding as desired while at the same time providing a more equitable distribution of funds.”

What they are really saying is that the board is spending far in excess of the money that has been allocated by the province for education. One hundred per cent of all that money must come from the local ratepayers. It is becoming an extremely large burden to the local ratepayers to have to pay for all the education that in fact the province had originally committed to do. Especially when the Liberals were in opposition, they certainly said that the province should be paying 40 per cent of the costs. Now they are talking 16 or 17 per cent of the costs being paid by the province.

What is happening now is that the shift of the costs of education is going far more to the local ratepayers on their property taxes. That is going to force many people out of their homes. Seniors and others who are on fixed incomes will not be able to continue to pay the cost of taxes that this education system is going to demand from them.

So the point goes on. What this government should do, point 2 in the proposal by Chairman Virgillio, is:

“Allow present unapproved costs, such as debenture and interest-carrying costs to be grantable. Boards like ours, with high debt load and interest-carrying costs, must be given financial relief. Assessment-rich boards have been able to fund capital expenditures through current operating funds, thereby minimizing future debt payments, and have also been able to build up reserves, thereby minimizing interest-carrying costs.

“Without addressing the above two proposals, the Ministry of Education will be ignoring its own basic principles of equality of educational opportunity and equalization of financial resources. Lack of attention to the two proposals will again force the York Region Roman Catholic Separate School Board into levying significant tax increases on its taxpayers with another projected deficit.”

Last year that same board had to increase its educational taxes four times the rate of inflation and it may be forced to do so again. I share the board’s concern. There really has to be some worry about being able to maintain the quality of education. It will continue to be in severe jeopardy unless some action is taken by this government.

So we are now faced with what is going to happen. I am concerned that we continue to put so much money into education and yet the results are not always there. Many of us will know that there are some students who are doing extremely well, and I think an awful lot has to do with the home and the background and the dedication of teachers within the system.

But you can pour money into it and if you end up having the illiteracy level as we have it now; if you end up having the dropout rate so high; when you end up having the number of people who are not going into science and technology; when you are not seeing that flow of young people into trades and apprenticeship programs, it really begins to tell me, especially when you have a shortage of trained people in key areas, that we are not doing it right.

I am going back to the first point that I began with in this address yesterday. If there is any resource that counts for the long-term benefit of our province, it is our young people. We must make sure that we make the investment in the future by providing them with the best of what they need in order to meet the future. When we look at the illiteracy rate we realize that according to a Southam study on this some time ago -- it was a classic case -- in fact now in Canada 24 per cent of adults are illiterate and 17 per cent of students graduating from high school are illiterate.

That is something we must fight and we have to fight it by concentrating on the basics in education. Let us not take for granted the important need for reading, writing, arithmetic and the other social skills that are a part of it. Physical health and education are also important, but have a rounded, full program. I am concerned that here we are continuing to put money into education. It should be our greatest investment per capita and on a percentage basis of the Ontario budget. We have seen the percentage of the Ontario budget decrease in the last 10 and 12 years from what it was in 1978.

What we need to do is continue to have an emphasis on that so that our educational system is not something that is given second shrift.

I really do not think there is anyone in this province who does not put a high emphasis on education. What we really do need is to have an emphasis where we reward achievement in the school system, where there is a creation of an environment for the excellence that can take place in a classroom. We have to have incentives in place for excellence, assessment and innovation, which are essential to ensure our competitiveness in the global trading economy.

I believe that education should become a major important issue in this Legislature. It is not something that we should just shove aside; it is something we should have a special study on to see what we can do to make sure the value is there at every level.

The province comes along and says, “We are going to make kindergarten compulsory all day, and then we have junior kindergarten.” The Toronto papers yesterday were saying, “Why have it all day?” School boards are saying: “Why does the province mandate these programs? They do not pay for it; the local school board does.”

What we need to do is begin with a system that has all the potential of being the best system in the world. If there is anything we want to have, we want to have a good health system. We want to have a quality education system. We want to protect the rights of people in their homes through the law that is in fact there to protect them at all times; we want to be able to have our rights protected. But we are not seeing that. There is a continuing erosion on these fundamental values that so many of us do not take for granted.

The government spends our money, as it will do as we give approval for the interim supply so that the bills can be paid. We want to protect the needs of all people but make sure we put the investment where it counts in certain key areas. One of those has to be education.

There are a number of other points I want to make on this. I just have to say the problem is not going to go away. We here in Ontario will continue to fight for those things we believe in.

Even though the government shows a callous disregard for these things by mandating programs that have not really been asked for or desired, what we are now really faced with is, come deal with the issue. We have a chance, even yet, to build on the system that has been there in the past, a quality education system in Ontario at every level.

I happen to believe we are missing the challenge. This government has missed the challenge in the four years it has been in office. It still has an opportunity to do what is right and good for all people in this province. We will all be the beneficiaries when education is given the emphasis that it should be given.

I think there are others who would like to speak on this issue and other things that have to do with government spending. I hope there will be an opportunity for a more full and complete debate on the subject of education.

Mr D. S. Cooke: Very briefly, I generally agree with a few of the comments the member has made over the past two days, but I did think it was worth raising and I would like to have a response from the member. We in this caucus, and the member for Cambridge, are very concerned about home buyers who in all good conscience buy a home, make an offer, put their money down and then, when it comes time to occupy the home, find they cannot because the legislation protecting consumers is so weak in this province.

I guess what I was trying to get from the member is an understanding of when that legislation was passed, who the minister was at the time and which party was in power when that legislation was brought in.

I have been a member for 13 years and my recollection is that the legislation was brought in by the former Tory government and it was not particularly interested in supporting and protecting home purchasers any more than the current government is, because my understanding and clear recollection is that they both have very close relationships with the developers of this province and therefore they both have more concern for the developers and home builders in this province than they do for the consumers.

For a Conservative member to be criticizing a Liberal member for lack of protection of home buyers, I think is rather difficult to swallow, just as it would be equally difficult to swallow if the Liberals were criticizing the Tories.

The only party that is not in the pockets of the developers of this province is the New Democratic Party, because we do not take money from the developers of this province during elections. We do not take donations or what some would call -- no, I cannot use that word here; I can use it outside. We do not take donations and therefore we are not beholden to the developers. We do not owe anything to the developers like they do.

Mr Cousens: That is the problem with the New Democrats. They like to generalize, and they will say that all builders are bad. What a crock that is. They really do not begin to understand that they have done more to help build this province. They make an investment in the province. They have helped build homes. They are more responsible than he is with his statements, which really do not begin to understand just how much it takes to work together. It takes all levels to be involved in making a strong province and I think the building industry and the home building industry for the large part have done that.

To go back another step, it was the Ontario Progressive Conservative government of years ago that brought in the Ontario New Home Warranty Program, which was the first of its kind in North America. It began to establish some ground rules that would protect the new home buyer. No one else has ever accomplished what we did in the establishment of the Ontario New Home Warranty Program and it has done a great deal to protect those people.

I, in my capacity as Housing critic and in my capacity as a member of the Legislature and serving the people of the riding of Markham, then York Centre, came forward with a series of proposals that asked for changes in the guidelines of the Ontario New Home Warranty Program. It is an evolution thing. Is it ever perfect? No. But at least my suggestions, then and now, are still valid: we have to protect the new home buyer and make sure that no one is going to be allowed to sell homes unless the lots are registered in the first place.

That was a problem then. It is a problem today. There are other problems with the Ontario New Home Warranty Program: leaks in the basement; getting the repairs done; making sure that the service is followed up; the definition of guidelines. These are issues that continue. The fact is, we began with something and I think it is something that can be built upon.

The member for Windsor-Riverside is great to throw out the baby with the bath water. I see that right now the government has a chance to do something about the people who have bought homes from Sheldon Libfeld. Why do we not do something about them and about Crest Valley Homes? That is an issue and that continues to be an issue. The fact that they make light of it really shows a tremendous disregard for the people in Richmond Hill.

Mr D. S. Cooke: I am pleased to be able to join this debate. I would like to say to the member for Markham that I am not interested in throwing the baby out with the bath water. I am interested in throwing the Liberals out and the Tories out at the same time, because we know that when it comes to the developers of this province they are both in the pockets of the developers, and if consumers want protection in this province, the only way they are going to get that protection is with a political party that is interested in ordinary people and consumers of this province.

We do not take donations from the developers of this province. We are not beholden to those people. After we are elected as a government, we would not owe them favours like the Conservatives and the Liberals do. If anything brought that home it was the Patti Starr affair, which involved both Liberals and Conservatives right across this province, because Patti Starr and the developers of this province are always looking for politicians to rent, four years at a time. They have them under lease now. If these guys ever formed a government, they would have them under lease. Perhaps what they are looking for is a long-term contract that involves both the parties. We are not for sale.

Mr Cousens: Oh, you are for sale.

Mr Pelissero: Nobody is buying. You have got to have a product that is saleable.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Cureatz): The honourable House leader for the official opposition is a tinch provocative.

Mr D. S. Cooke: A politician who speaks the truth is always confrontational, and if the truth hurts the member for Markham and all the Liberals on that side, so be it, but the people and the home buyers of this province know who are willing to protect the people of this province, and it is not the political parties that take donations from large developers, and that is what both of them do.

Mr Ballinger: Where do you get your money, David?

Mr D. S. Cooke: Where do I get my money? I get my money $100 at a time from people in my riding who are willing to donate. Then during the election, I go and borrow money from the bank, which we pay back over the next term as we raise money at socials, dinners and garage sales. That is how we get our money.

Mr Ballinger: How many unions contribute to your campaign?

The Acting Speaker: All right. Now it is not the House leader’s problem; it is other honourable members who are trying to incite inflammatory statements. I would just ask all the members -- it being early in the week yet, it is going to be another too long, I am sure, wonderful, interesting day -- let us continue with this debate, please.

Mr Cousens: He is so self-righteous, Mr Speaker. Don’t have him get away with this stuff.

Mr D. S. Cooke: Oh, boy, you can always tell with these guys when you are talking the truth, because they get really upset. I can understand why the member for Markham is having a difficult time on top. He gets so upset when the truth is spoken that the hair just falls out. However, that is not the major point that I wanted to make.

Mr Cousens: What about your hairline, David?

Mr D. S. Cooke: Yes, my hair is falling out too. He is right, but it is not because I get upset by anything he has to say.

Mr Cousens: That’s what you say.

Mr D. S. Cooke: It is because I get upset at how my constituents, for years -- 42 years under his party and now five years under this party -- do not get protected, whether they are home buyers or whether they are people who want to get car insurance. They do not get protected, and that gets me upset, and that is why I am getting thin on top.

We have talked a bit about how the home builders of this province have had the current Liberal government under rent, and before that they had rented the Conservative Party. The same discussion could take place, and has taken place, with my colleague the member for Welland-Thorold leading the fight, on how the insurance companies have rented the Liberal Party and that is why we are getting the lack of protection for people who need to buy car insurance across this province. The statistics show very clearly the insurance companies