May 30, 2012

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLVII No. 40

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today we are very pleased to welcome to our galleries forty individuals from

the 50 Plus Brigus and Area Seniors Club from the District of Harbour Main.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Today, they are accompanied by their group leader Bill

Smith, and their bus driver Tom Costello.

We are also very pleased today to have in our galleries Jeana Bowen of

Riverhead, St. Mary's Bay, who recently participated in the Canadian Council for

the Blind Athletic Sports Recreation Games and was named Best Totally Blind

Female Athlete for Atlantic Canada.

Welcome to our galleries.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Today we will have members' statements from: the Member for

the District of Placentia St. Mary's by leave; the Member for the District of

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune; the Member for the District of St. John's Centre;

the Member for the District of Bay Verte Springdale; the Member for the

District of Lake Melville; and the Member for the District of Humber Valley.

The hon. the Member for the District of Placentia St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to rise in this hon. House to pay tribute to

Jeana Bowen of Riverhead, St. Mary's Bay.

Two weeks ago, Jeana participated in the Canadian Council for the Blind

Atlantic Sports and Recreation Games, which were held in the Province for the

first time. Jeana participated in the totally blind under fifty category. Jeana

competed in eleven of the fourteen events, and won first place ribbons in the

sixty metre run, the 100 metre run, discus throwing and javelin throwing, as

well as second and third place ribbons in other events.

For her efforts, Mr. Speaker, Jeana was named the Best Totally Blind Female

Athlete for Atlantic Canada, the first time this award has ever been won by a

person from this Province. She is looking forward to defending her award at the

games next year in Moncton.

Mr. Speaker, Jeana says that participation in events like this help her keep

her self-confidence and independence. I have known Jeana for almost seven years,

and she is an inspiration to everyone who knows her and has earned the

admiration and respect of her community.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in

congratulating Jeana on her amazing achievement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS PERRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to pay tribute to professional artist Ruth

Lawrence for receiving the 2011 Artist of the Year Award from the Newfoundland

and Labrador Arts Council.

Ruth has demonstrated that hard work, determination, and a strong belief in

yourself does ensure that dreams can come true. She is an amazingly talented

artist who has performed more than 100 roles in professional theatre, film,

television, musicals, and radio productions. She also chairs the board for

Neighbourhood Dance Works and is executive director of the Nickel Independent

Film Festival.

Ruth's commitment and dedication is second to none, and we are all so glad

that she made her choice to practice her profession here at home. All residents

of Fortune Bay Cape La Hune are very proud of our Newfoundland treasure, and

we highly commend her determination to excel as an artist.

I ask that all members join with me in congratulating her remarkable talent.

Well done, Ruth, you are truly an inspiration to us all to follow our dreams and

we look forward to your new efforts.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to honour and congratulate the work

of Bridges to Hope on Cookstown Road in St. John's Centre. Guided by the

compassion and expertise of program Director Derek Winsor, the four staff and a

whole host of volunteers have created several innovative programs to help lift

people out of poverty.

Through their Food Pantry, they have assisted 2,835 people, including 510

children, since this January alone. In the community kitchen every day, Chef

Andrew teaches eight new people how to cook nutritious, delicious meals on a

budget. Many are single moms trying to make ends meet.

Wednesdays, Chef and participants bake 100 loaves of whole grain bread to

distribute at the Food Pantry, and in summer months he runs a youth cooking

program.

If that weren't enough, Bridges to Hope and their supporters prepare and

distribute 500 book bags at the beginning of the school year, 300 Christmas

hampers, and with Daybreak, operate a toy lending library two days a week,

providing developmental toys to families who could not otherwise afford them.

Bridges to Hope say: "Poverty can rob people of many things except hope. We

are the bridge. Let's make a difference!"

Mr. Speaker, I would like the whole House to congratulate Derek and team for

the incredible difference that they do make.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte Springdale.

MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On Saturday, May 11, I had the privilege to attend a very unique health care

fundraiser in Baie Verte.

The fourth annual Victorian Tea Party is a fundraiser to develop a

therapeutic wander garden for long-term care residents who struggle with

dementia in the region.

Health care staff and other volunteers sold costumes and chair covers,

polished silver, built a backdrop, handled delicate china teapots and dishes,

and prepared a delicious selection of finger foods. A wonderful and elegant

environment was created in the modern Copper Ridge Academy gymnasium.

The event has grown in popularity, with 161 people experiencing the valued

Mother's Day tradition in the community.

Huge accolades go out to Tracy Comeau, Central Health Director of Health

Services for Baie Verte, for spearheading the event, and to all of the Baie

Verte Peninsula Health Centre staff for their contribution.

I ask all hon. members to congratulate Ms Comeau and her team of volunteers

for a wonderful event and wish them well in their quest to create the first

therapeutic wander garden in the Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

MR. RUSSELL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased t rise today in this hon. House to congratulate the

high school graduates of Lake Melville School in the beautiful town of North

West River, who celebrated this milestone on May 5, 2012.

The four graduates are Max Matthews, Brooke Davey, Sammi Rae Brown, and Tom

Rich.

I would also like to thank the principal of Lake Melville School, Mr. Barry

Flynn, for all of his hard work he has put into the students over the years. I

would also like to thank the staff for their ongoing support of these students.

I ask all hon. members of this House to join with me and congratulate these

four students on their successes and a great achievement.

Congratulations, graduates of 2012; here is wishing you all the very best for

your future!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. BALL: I rise in this hon. House today to commend the Elwood

Envirothon Team of Deer Lake on their recent victory at the provincial

Envirothon competition held earlier this month.

This team of five youth has helped create a provincial precedent as Elwood

has been the winner of four of the past five consecutive Envirothon provincial

championships. Under the direction of team coaches Fred Pearson and Oral

Roberts, this group met regularly since October to study environmental issues.

Mr. Speaker, this team will now represent our Province as they travel to

Selinsgrove, Pennsylvania for the International Canon Envirothon Competition on

July 1. I would like to congratulate the team members Mark Murdoch, Erin

Pearson, Michaela Pye, Bethany Roberts, and Brittany Ropson.

I would also like to commend Elwood Regional High as this victory amounted to

seven provincial titles for the Deer Lake School since they have been taking

part in Envirothon competitions.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to stand with me and congratulate this

group of exceptional youth and their team coaches, and wish them every success

as they represent our Province on the international scene.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to announce Team Newfoundland and Labrador's

mission staff for the 2013 Canada Summer Games in Sherbrooke, Quebec.

The seventeen-member team will be led by Chef de Mission Michelle Healey of

St. John's and Assistant Chefs de Mission Rod Snow of Mount Pearl and Karen

Sherriffs of St. John's. This is the second time Ms Healey and Mr. Snow will

take on these roles, having also served in the 2011 Canada Winter Games. Ms

Healey is currently Director of Athletics with Memorial University and Mr. Snow

is Manager and High Performance Director with the Newfoundland and Labrador

Sport Centre. Ms Sherriffs is a Community Program Supervisor with the City of

St. John's.

Other members joining them are Gary Martin of Mount Pearl, Allison Sturge of

St. John's, Peter Butt of Twillingate, Gregory Pittman of Clarenville, Robert

Goulding of Grand Falls-Windsor, Jamie Jewers of Clarenville, Doug Redmond of

St. John's, David Kennedy of Carbonear, Michelle Carroll of St. John's, Dave

Feener of St. John's, Laura Cole of Outer Cove, Colin Carroll of Happy

Valley-Goose Bay, Janet Facey of Tilting, and Angela King of Flatrock.

The mission staff team will provide logistical support and assistance to over

350 provincial athletes on their quest to reach the podium at the country's most

prestigious sports competition.

The time, effort, and commitment of these volunteers prior to and during the

two-week-long event will certainly play an important role in the team's overall

Canada Games experience. Their dedication and efforts are commendable and

appreciated.

Mr. Speaker, our Province continues to produce outstanding athletes who, year

after year, compete successfully on the provincial, national, and international

stage. We remain committed to the continued growth of athletic excellence in

Newfoundland and Labrador as outlined in our recreation and sport strategy,

Active, Healthy Newfoundland and Labrador .

We thank everyone involved in this event, including coaches, managers,

parents, and volunteers. The dreams of many young athletes of Newfoundland and

Labrador will be fulfilled with their support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy. I also would like to congratulate

all the volunteers; Michelle, Rod, and Karen for their volunteer work; and all

the mission staff. I know as participants in the Canada Games some of the

challenges this mission staff must have to keep the athletes in line sometimes

in ensuring that everything is running smoothly at times. I know the Member for

Port de Grave was on a lot of Canada Games teams; I know his contribution also

with the Canada Games teams from Newfoundland and Labrador. I just want to

recognize that because I know the contribution that he made on many times.

To all the athletes, you have a great team going with you. Minister, I would

be remiss if I did not mention that I noticed there is no one west of Grand

Falls. The next time when there is a mission staff, I encourage you to include

the West Coast for the mission staff. Not taking away the qualifications of the

people who are on this mission staff, but I just want to make that and just put

a plug in for the West Coast. There are a lot of fine people on the West Coast

who would love to participate in that.

I say congratulations to all the athletes; you have a fine team taking care

of you. To the athletes, you will have an experience of a lifetime because it is

a great adventure; it is a great bit of fun. To the mission staff who are going

to keep everybody in line, Newfoundland and Labrador has a great reputation at

the Canada Games. I know from a participant and from a person who attended many

games that Newfoundland and Labrador and it is because of volunteers like here

helping out with the staff, helping out with all the athletes.

Thank you very much. Congratulations to them all.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of his

statement. I would like to congratulate Chef de Mission Michelle Healey, and

Assistant Chefs de Mission Rod Snow and Karen Sherriffs, and the other members

of the mission staff who will be providing support to our athletes at the Canada

Summer Games in Quebec. It is extremely important that we support athletic

excellence in our Province. Sports and recreation strategies are very important,

and not only for supporting elite athletes but for also encouraging and

supporting all our youth in both schools and communities to be active and

healthy.

To all the members of Team Newfoundland and Labrador, you make us proud.

Bonne chance and bon voyage!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services and

the Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in this hon. House to inform my

colleagues that today, May 30, is Provincial Francophonie Day.

Mr. Speaker, in 1999, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador passed an

Order in Council designating May 30 Provincial Francophonie Day. May 30 is a

very symbolic day for the Francophone and Acadian community in Newfoundland and

Labrador. It was on this date in 1987 that the first sod was turned on the site

of the future Sainte-Anne School and Community Centre at Mainland on the Port au

Port Peninsula, which, of course, is the traditional heart of the Province's

French-speaking community.

Depuis cette date, Monsieur le Prsident, les Francophones, les Acadiens et

leurs nombreux amis et partenaires, y compris le gouvernement de

Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador, se runissent le 30 mai tous les ans pour lever le

drapeau franco-terre-neuvien-et-labradorien qui exprime l'esprit et la tnacit

de la communaut.

Although I was unable to be there personally last week, the provincial

government continued its long-standing tradition of partnering with the

Francophone Federation of Newfoundland and Labrador to mark Provincial

Francophonie Day with a

flag-raising ceremony just outside of these doors. My colleague, the Member for

Port au Port, represented the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador at this

event and helped raise the flag outside of Confederation Building.

Monsieur le Prsident, cette manifestation a t un grand succs et les

lves de l'cole francophone locale, l'cole des Grands-Vents, ont montr leur

fiert communautaire en faisant flotter des drapeaux et en se joignant la

chorale francophone, La Rose de Vents, pour chanter Canada et l'hymne de

Terre-Neuve.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating the Francophone and Acadian community of Newfoundland and

Labrador for is tireless efforts to protect and promote the French language in

this Province. This past year, this community has been successful in launching a

French-language tourism Web site and initiating a project aimed at enhancing

youth identity, which is key to the success of French as a vital language in

Newfoundland and Labrador. The provincial government is proud to have been a

partner on both those projects, as well as several others.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Merci beaucoup,

Mr. Speaker.

Merci beaucoup to the minister for an advance copy

of her statement. Je ne parle pas franais;

therefore, I will continue en

anglais .

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. A. PARSONS: Today we do indeed celebrate our Province's Francophone

and Acadian history, and I want to join with the government in recognizing the

Francophone and Acadian community. It was twenty-five years ago that the French

Newfoundland and Labrador flag was first raised in Mainland on the West Coast,

La Grand'Terre. We have a couple of thousand Francophones living in our Province

and it is important that we invest in and celebrate the Francophone and Acadian

heritage within our Province.

French-speaking Newfoundlanders and Labradorians contribute significantly to

our Province. I applaud the Francophone and Acadian community in its launch of a

French-language tourism site, which is in keeping with our bilingual nation as

well as their project promoting youth identity, which is crucial in the survival

of the language in this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement.

C'est un vrai plaisir pour moi de dire flicitations aux Francophones et aux

Acadiens qui habite Terre Neuve et Labrador l'occasion de la Journe

provinciale de la Francophonie.

I was pleased to be at this ceremony again this year to celebrate their

cultures with them. It is encouraging especially to see how far French language

has come in this Province in the last forty years, especially in our educational

system.

I have the honour of saying that I was a member of the first Ministerial

Advisory Committee on French in Education in this Province for a minister of the

Progressive Conservative government. I am delighted to see that so much of what

we recommended at that time has become a reality.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As early as April 25, 2011, the consultants at Eastern Health hired to do its

operational review gave its first recommendations to the Eastern Health board.

Those consultants gathered input from managers at Eastern Health, but at no time

consulted with the front line staff or their representatives.

I ask the Premier: Can you explain why such an extensive operational review

aimed at improving efficiencies at Eastern Health could be conducted without

consulting the very people who would be required and asked to implement those

changes?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, perhaps what we should look at is what this benchmarking process

is all about. Benchmarking is comparing one organization with another of

comparable size, comparable program offerings, et cetera. That is what has

happened here, Eastern Health comparing various facilities with various other

facilities across the Province. That was the first bit. That is data gathering,

Mr. Speaker.

Once the data is brought back, Mr. Speaker, it is taken and then the people

at Eastern Health worked with their employees to come up with the

recommendations. The recommendations do not come from outside, Mr. Speaker. The

recommendations come from the employees at Eastern Health itself. It is

grassroots up and that is the procedure that has been followed.

Very clearly, Mr. Speaker, employees were very much involved in making the

recommendations. Managers will be very vigilant in seeing that these

recommendations are carried through.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: It is interesting to hear the minister talk about how they were

consulted because, actually, what we heard yesterday was quite different. We

heard union representatives use words like blindsided and not seeing this at

all. The fact that managers were consulted really was not the question. The

question for me was if you want to successfully implement those changes, you

really need to be talking to the people who will be required to do the

implementation.

Mr. Speaker, Eastern Health keeps referencing the comparators that

consultants use to determine the appropriate benchmarks for Eastern Health and

to justify their conclusions and their recommendations. This comparative

information has not been provided to the public or the organizations

representing the staff impacted by these recommendations.

I ask the minister: Will this information be made available to all the

affected groups and the concerned parties?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Heath and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, once again, what we are talking about is a comparison of data.

That is what has been supplied to us. There is no report; it is a matter of

data. What we cannot do is we cannot share data from various other organizations

around this country, Mr. Speaker. That is private, individualized information.

It has been made available to Eastern Health so that they can look at the

comparisons, but we cannot release data from other hospitals, other

organizations around the country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: We understand the information from other health care

authorities is owned by those, but we had the consultant group that actually

collected this on behalf of Eastern Health and then were required to compile all

that data to put it into the action plan or the recommendations. That is the

kind of things that we are asking for. I know there is no report, but the

managers were actually challenged to implement the changes. The leaders of NAPE,

the Nurses' Union, and CUPE feel that they were blindsided, as I said, by this

announcement. They were concerned by the recommendations in the operational

review, particularly on how they would be implemented without impacting the

level of care provided to patients.

Without having received input from these groups, how can you ensure that

these recommendations will not negatively impact the level of care and services

at Eastern Health?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, the first part of the commentary, again having

to do with the recommendations. Recommendations did not come to us, Mr. Speaker.

We took the data and then we used that to develop our own recommendations. It is

not a matter of a report out there that we can pass over. We do not have a

report, we simply have the data. We are developing our own recommendations, or

Eastern Health is, based on that. That is the first part.

In terms of being blindsided, Mr. Speaker, we talk about unions being

blindsided. What happened there, Mr. Speaker, was that there was a very

measured, organized process by which Eastern Health intended to talk to people

of Newfoundland and Labrador, its own employees, MHAs here in the House of

Assembly, members of the Opposition, and members of the media. It was the people

opposite who blindsided the unions when they went out ahead of everybody else.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: (Inaudible) do that because if you go back to the report that

was given by Eastern Health yesterday you will find that as far back as April

2011 there were early recommendations given to the managers and directors at

Eastern Health. This has been a year in the making right now. There were some

calls made last week too, so it was only obvious we were not blindsided here;

it is when people heard it from media reports, that was the problem.

The Eastern Health Regional Authority was created by your government in 2005

when you amalgamated seven health care boards. Your government was warned that

the amalgamation could create an uncontrollable monster from a financial

efficiency and administrative perspective.

I ask the Premier: Why did it take seven years to realize things were not

operating properly at Eastern Health, while you continued to pour money into the

deficits year after year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, again, we are given conflicting advice. They tell us to spend,

spend, spend, spend on the other side of the House, a daily call here in this

House of Assembly.

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: I hear the MHA for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair; her

voice, again, today, loudest as it usually is, is calling for us to spend,

spend, spend and invest in health care, but, Mr. Speaker, did not have the sense

to ask the same question her colleague from Burgeo La Poile asked here in the

House last night, to say: we know we are spending a lot of money in health care

and in this Province, Mr. Speaker, but are we getting value for the money?

That is the question that has been posed in health care and that is what

Eastern Health is trying to ensure.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I know, at least from the Official Opposition's perspective, we have been on

record many times when you talk about investments in health, but outcomes are

important. When you do not consult with the very people that are going to be

asked to implement those changes, that is where we have a big problem today, Mr.

Speaker.

According to your government, the reason for creating the board was to make

more accountable health authorities. The boards were supposed to find

efficiencies in administration. The AG confirmed in 2007 that this did not

happen. In fact, the CEO has confirmed that Eastern Health was amongst the worst

financial performers in the country.

I ask the Premier: Why did your government not provide proper oversight to

control the board's expenditures as opposed to propping up huge deficits?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am not exactly clear what the Leader of the Opposition is

putting before us here today. Does he want the health care boards to review

their spending or does he not, Mr. Speaker? Is this a good exercise or not a

good exercise? It is certainly not clear in his messaging here today.

As part of a due diligence process, when you are in charge of the public

purse, whether it be in health care, education, or other forms of governance,

Mr. Speaker, we have a responsibility and an obligation to the people of this

Province to ensure that they are getting quality services and their money is

being spent correctly. That is what is happening, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: We will be very clear; from our point of view, we have no

problem with dealing with inefficiencies. If you have a coffee shop that is

losing $260,000 a year, yes, you deal with that. That has been in place since,

we have been told, 1995.

AN HON. MEMBER: How come you (inaudible)?

MR. BALL: You were here in 2003. The information about the coffee shop

operation at the Health Sciences

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BALL: Maybe you will answer the question. When you answer the

question, we will find out.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BALL: The information about the coffee shop operation at the Health

Sciences Centre and its $260,000 loss last year has gathered much public comment

today. This business has been in operation for several years. Surely the

viability of a single business should have been known for some years through the

internal financial auditing procedures at Eastern Health.

I ask the Premier: Will you make available the financial information for this

outlet since it has been in operation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, the coffee shop at Eastern Health has been in

operation, in fact was brought in, in 1995, by members opposite. I would assume

they have some of the statistics that they are already looking for.

Mr. Speaker, if the members opposite think that the level of scrutiny that we

do over a $3 billion expenditure in health care is to take every single health

authority and work down line by line by line through every piece of that, I do

not know what they are thinking over there. Mr. Speaker, let me tell you what is

happening. What is absolutely incredulous is that we have found a way; Eastern

Health is leading the way on finding ways to improve health care in Newfoundland

and Labrador, to improve inefficiencies and to be able to put money into other

programs as they come to a balanced budget. That is good work, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On several occasions in the House, the Minister Responsible for Fire and

Emergency Services stated that any documentation he had on search and rescue in

relation to the Makkovik tragedy would be tabled. The Premier also gave the

impression that the Province's internal review they were conducting would be

tabled at the same time as the correspondence from the federal government.

However, on Monday the Premier stated that this internal review was not a

written document.

I ask her today to clarify once and for all: Was there an internal review?

Was it a written document? If so, why won't you table it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair

and the House Leader for the Opposition has some difficulty from time to time

with her recall. That is why we have Hansard in this House, Mr. Speaker.

There is nowhere in Hansard that she will find me promising or committing to

make available a written report on an internal review with the Fire and

Emergency Services. What I did say in this House, Mr. Speaker, was that a review

of protocols was going to take place within FES in concert with the Department

of Municipal Affairs, and that has taken place, took place very early in

February, Mr. Speaker.

So, no, there is no written report, Mr. Speaker, for me to file here in the

House, nor have I ever promised same.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier left the impression, and the minister did commit to table it.

Mr. Speaker, on April, 26 in the House the Premier stated that the internal

review was completed and reported upon. She also stated on Monday that after

this review, Fire and Emergency Services made adjustments to their protocols.

I ask the Premier today: Where is the report, and what adjustments to the

protocols were made? Please outline them.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, just to clarify for the hon. member, when I

spoke on this tragic issue some time ago, and we have spoken on it many, many

times, there was no such thing as a report that would be tabled in this House

other than the time frame and the timelines associated with the search itself,

which has been tabled in this House previously by the Premier this week, along

with the correspondence that we had with the Minister of Defence, the hon.

Minister Peter MacKay. That is exactly what we committed to and exactly what we

have done. We have had discussions with our counterparts in regard to the

various levels of protocols, with the RCMP and JRCC, to review the protocols to

see if we can tighten anything up, which we do in all cases in regard to IGOR or

whatever it may be. We always review our practices to see if we can make them

better.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I repeat, on April 26 - and this is why we have Hansard - the Premier

stated that the internal review was completed and reported upon. We are not sure

where it was reported to, who it was reported to, or what was contained in that

report, or how that report was done. What we do know is that there was no

complete, formal, written, internal investigation done by the provincial

government in the failed search in Makkovik.

I ask the Premier: Why was it not done, and why will you not call a public

inquiry?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have a number of search and rescue operations that take place

in this Province on an annual basis, and we have an obligation to ensure that

the best service that we can provide to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador,

in concert with other resources we have to call upon, is available to them. We

do not do a formal review after every time we conduct a search or rescue, Mr.

Speaker. That is the facts of it, Mr. Speaker, and FES did review its protocols,

in concert with the Department of Municipal Affairs. That was reported upon to

Cabinet, Mr. Speaker, and we are satisfied with the protocols that we have in

place. We have searched out further information and do not see the need for an

inquiry, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, you need a Hansard to follow what the Premier

says. One day she is talking about how they changed protocols, and now they are

saying that there was not any change.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier this question: Are there any

agreements in place today to sell Muskrat Falls power to mining companies that

are developing in Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I have indicated on numerous occasions that we

are in discussions with the mining companies. When I say we, I am talking about

the government and Nalcor, Mr. Speaker. We have indicated clearly that if

companies are interested in purchasing power, that we will do our best to get it

to them. I have also indicated clearly, Mr. Speaker, to the member of the

Opposition, that Muskrat Falls power holds the key to providing mining companies

in Labrador with the power they need and satisfying the needs of the Island.

So, hopefully, and I look forward to the day when the member for Labrador

will get up and vote for Muskrat Falls, as I know she will.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If there has been an offer of power made to these mining companies, I would

like to ask the minister: What companies they have offered power to? In

addition, I would like to ask him what the terms of that offer included? Does it

include the mining companies building the transmission capacity, and was there

an industrial rate set and offered to these companies?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

I would like, first, to indicate that I know the member opposite met with Mr.

Martin and Nalcor today and her attitude certainly was not a good one, Mr.

Speaker.

What we are doing and what we have indicated is that there will be power

available with Muskrat Falls, Mr. Speaker, if it is sanctioned and developed.

Mr. Speaker, there are no firm contracts signed. I have met with all these

companies. There is only one company that said we are willing to buy power. We

are in discussions, Mr. Speaker, with these companies and if they want to sign

firm contracts, then we will guarantee the power if Muskrat Falls is sanctioned,

Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Opposition House Leader.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I had a very courteous meeting with Ed Martin this morning, and a very

informative meeting, I would like to say to you, Minister. I am absolutely

shocked if Mr. Martin would have said anything that would be any different than

that.

Mr. Speaker, in order to use Muskrat Falls power in Labrador, you need to

build a 350 kilovolt line from Churchill Falls to Labrador West.

I would like to ask the government: Has there been any analysis done on this

line in terms of the EIS, the construction time frame, or the cost? You can bury

your face, Premier, but you cannot stand in the House and say we are going to do

something for Labrador, and then do nothing then do nothing.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Maybe the member opposite should look at her own motivations

for making these kinds of comments, Mr. Speaker. Self interest at times, Mr.

Speaker, is something that leads to problems.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Ball was present there today, too.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KENNEDY: Your behaviour was

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members to direct their comments to the Chair.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Opposition Leader, Mr. Speaker, I understand was very polite.

Mr. Speaker, in terms of the Muskrat Falls power and I am going to be

speaking to this in Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given we

have made it clear on numerous occasions that if Muskrat Falls is developed,

there will be power available for development. We are not going to develop

Muskrat Falls simply to supply power to mining companies, Mr. Speaker. There has

to be the replacement of Holyrood. When all of that is done, Mr. Speaker, then

what we will look at is the provision of power to these companies.

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals have to make a decision as to whether or not they

support Muskrat Falls

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: People are asking how Eastern Health can cut 385 positions

and make other changes to the tune of $43 million without affecting the quality

of patient care.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Could she clearly outline how their

Department of Health is going to monitor the changes so that they will not

affect patient care?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the vast majority of the changes that will be made Eastern

Health will be made in terms of jobs that will be gone through attrition;

however, when it comes to monitoring what is happening over there that will

continue to happen as it always has. Mr. Speaker, this process, as was indicated

earlier today, started about a year ago. For example, the issues around constant

care, those are not brand-new initiatives. Those are initiatives that were

learned along the way, Mr. Speaker

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS SULLIVAN: Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Eastern Health has been monitoring

the process of how that is unfolding and how the new initiative is working

itself through.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Conservative's 2004 Throne Speech claimed striking the right balance

between quality health care and an efficient, sustainable system required them

to make four regional health boards. Yesterday's report from Eastern Health

shows clearly that their plan has not worked.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Will she recognize the mess they have created

and put in place an external review to assess how the whole system is working?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Here we go again, Mr. Speaker. Almost every time the

Leader of the Third Party gets on their feet she is calling for a review of

something. Mr. Speaker, there are only 500,000 of us in this Province and four

health boards serve us very well. There are a lot of people in this country, Mr.

Speaker, who would argue that four health boards for 500,000 people is far too

much administration.

Mr. Speaker, health care in this Province is very, very, very good. You only

have to tune in to any kind of television show like the Janeway Telethon, for

example, to hear wonderful stories about the health care that is provided to

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians through those four health care authorities. Do

we have challenges? Yes, but we are prepared to meet them in exercises like

this.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

New census data shows our Province has a higher proportion of seniors than

ever before. These are people who have worked and paid into the health care

system their whole lives and who will now need it more than ever.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Where is the long-term and home care strategy

that this government has been promising for years?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I pointed out yesterday, when we make commitments we are

going to see those commitments come to reality. We talked about a long-term care

strategy, Mr. Speaker. We are in the final stages of having that long-term care

strategy put together. You are going to see that very, very soon.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Nalcor would not be spending millions of dollars of taxpayers' money building

a road to Muskrat Falls unless it was certain that Muskrat Falls would be

sanctioned by this government.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: What is the point of a special debate in the

House if Muskrat Falls hydro project is a fait accompli?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Martin and Nalcor have indicated that as you get toward the Decision Gate

3 process, Mr. Speaker, you spend money to determine your cost. The best way to

determine what overruns you will face is by taking certain steps. So what is

going on, we are preparing for the decision, if sanction is granted. No decision

has been made. We are open to discussion, and what Nalcor is doing is preparing

for sanction and determining how the cost will come out so that all the

information can be provided. What I would say to the member opposite, why does

she not just speak to Thomas Mulcair or Jack Harris? They can help her out.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last year, Nalcor built roads on the West Coast to potential oil drilling

sites which were never used, expensive roads to nowhere at taxpayers' expense.

Now Nalcor is building this road to Muskrat Falls before sanction.

I say to the Premier, she claims that her government are prudent fiscal

managers; I ask: How does building an expensive road to nowhere fit with that

claim?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is important sometimes to spend money in order to make money.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: That is exactly what is happening in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, we know there is oil on the West Coast of this Province. It bubbles

up to the top of the ground. It is incumbent on us to spend some money to firm

up our reserves, Mr. Speaker. It is important to the economic future of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Third Party wants

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to risk nothing, companies to risk everything,

come in and operate in this Province, and not even be able to count on the

agreements they have signed with the government of the day, because if they come

in, they are going to revisit all of those agreements and make sure they pay

more.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, when schools are not provided with the numbers of

teachers they need

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KIRBY: the students most in need of special attention suffer.

Teachers have told us

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KIRBY: that the current teacher allocation model fails to meet the

needs of students with special needs.

I ask the Minister of Education: How many more students need to fall behind

before he orders a review of the teacher allocation formula?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I do not know how many times I have to say it

for the member to get the message. We have the best teacher-student allocation

amongst all of the provinces in Canada. Second, one in every seven teachers that

are allocated are allocated for special education services.

Mr. Speaker, what we are providing to the students of this Province is the

best that can be offered in Canada. I make no apologies for it and we will

continue it, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, teachers are telling us that special needs

education and inclusion are deprived of funds by this government's

formula-driven teacher allocation process.

When will the Minister of Education finally stop making excuses and order an

immediate review of his flawed and outdated teacher allocation formula?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I caution the people watching, because we will

remember that it was only about a week or so ago that the hon. member got up and

talked about all the kindergarten classes that were over the size of twenty. I

had to point out, after I researched it, that none of the classes in this

Province had more than twenty students in their class.

Mr. Speaker, I say again: will there be challenges in special needs?

Certainly, there always will be. Teachers are the best-qualified ones that we

have across the country, better than most across the country. They are qualified

to meet the needs. Schools and school boards have teams that work together to

formulate plans to deal with these special circumstances.

Mr. Speaker, make no apologies for the system that we have in place

(inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In 2008, the Transportation Safety Board of Canada recommended the

replacement of voyage data recorders in ferries. The minister of the day said

that they were looking into getting the data recorders at that particular time.

Mr. Speaker, just one of the provincial ferries had these important recording

devices then.

Can the minister tell this House if all ferries under the Newfoundland and

Labrador Government's charge have these recorders installed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, let me say right off the top that when it

comes to safety, especially with our transportation system, in particular

ferries, everything has been done to make sure that those ferries are safe. As a

matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, those ferries will not go into service unless they

are absolutely certified, that everything is of working order, and that they are

absolutely safe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, his answer really was not clear. We still do not

know if the recorders are in.

I will ask about the incident this morning. The incident on the Bell Island

ferry this morning shines more light onto the problems with our aging fleet; the

ferries on the Tickle are no different when it comes to the need for

replacement.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: What is the plan for the Bell Island ferry's

replacement?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, we are talking about boats in the water.

There are times when they will scrape the wharf, where they bump up against the

wharf. That incident this morning, Mr. Speaker, was an incident that occurs very

rarely.

Upon arrival in port, the propulsion went down and, for a boat length, the

boat drifted. Again, the crew acted very quickly, got the visor down, got the

anchor out, and minimized the damage; note, minimum damage to the boat, but

also, most importantly, no injuries to the people onboard.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: There are fifteen seconds left in Question Period.

MS ROGERS: Mr. Speaker, our offices are getting calls from seniors in

distress who cannot afford the skyrocketing, uncontrolled rent increases they

are getting.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: When will this government

MR. SPEAKER: Question Period is over. I am sorry; time has expired.

I remind members, in Question Period I try to signal when we are getting

close. I would ask members then to recognize that the

preamble will have to be

eliminated from their question if they wish to get the question in. I will

signal that there are only a few seconds left, and when I say there is time for

a quick question, I would ask members to recognize if they insist on having the

preamble to their question, they will not get their question concluded.

The time has expired for Question Period.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In fulfilling the provincial government's commitment of being transparent and

accountable to the citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador, it is my pleasure to

table the audited 2011 Business and Financial Report for Nalcor Energy and the

audited Consolidated Financial Statements for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro

for the year ended December 31, 2011.

MR. SPEAKER: Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Government

House Leader.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On March 27, the Member for Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair asked the Minister

of Natural Resources to table in the House any correspondence, analysis or

reports that government has in relation to the current and projected demand for

electricity in Labrador and how such demand can be met.

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, Mr. Speaker, is a Crown corporation owned by

the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Its focus is on delivering safe,

reliable, least-cost power to residents, businesses, and industrial customers in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, Mr. Speaker, is also mandated to ensure that

adequate planning occurs for the future generation, transmission, and

distribution of power in the Province. There is currently 525 megawatts of

available electricity from the Churchill Falls Generating Station to meet demand

in Labrador. This includes the 225 Twin Falls or TwinCo block and the 300

megawatt recall block.

Labrador industrial customers, Mr. Speaker, currently use the full 225

megawatt Twin Falls block and an additional sixty-two megawatts of firm power

from the recall block. After Hydro's rural customers and industrial contracts

are supplied, there is between eighty and 280 megawatts of recall power

available, depending on the time of year. At peak during the winter, Mr.

Speaker, in Labrador, 220 megawatts of power is required, thereby leaving eighty

megawatts for other use in Labrador or for other export purposes.

Strong commodity prices, Mr. Speaker, have resulted in record levels of

mineral exploration in Western Labrador resulting in the announcement of a

number of new mining projects. If all projects go ahead, Mr. Speaker, there will

be an estimated $10 billion to $15 billion in capital investment for mining

developments in Labrador in the next ten years. These new developments will

require an adequate supply of electrical power at competitive rates to proceed.

So much depends, however, on the need for iron ore in China. The demand for iron

ore is affected directly by the Chinese economy.

If Muskrat Falls does not proceed, Mr. Speaker, there will not be sufficient

power available for all of the mining projects to proceed. Over the last number

of months the minister and departmental officials have held numerous meetings

with mining companies, including: the Iron Ore Company of Canada, Cliff's

Natural Resources in Wabush, Alderon Iron Ore Corporation, New Millennium Iron

Corporation, Tata Steel, Labrador Iron Mines, Vale, and Grand River Ironsands.

These meetings have covered numerous topics, Mr. Speaker, and have included

discussions regarding power requirements and transmission infrastructure.

As stated earlier, these projects are at various stages, Mr. Speaker, ranging

from early stage, pre-feasibility studies, environmental assessment studies, and

those that have commenced construction. The normal process, Mr. Speaker, for a

new industrial or large commercial customer will be to approach Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro to identify their projects' needs and make a formal request for

power.

The following companies, Mr. Speaker, have identified a need for power: IOC,

Alderon, Tata/New Millennium, Vale, Labrador Iron Mines, and Grand River

Ironsands. Once received, Nalcor then undertakes initial engineering studies

that are required to provide the customer with a preliminary estimate of cost

and timelines. There is a chart prepared by Nalcor, Mr. Speaker, which

summarizes their assessment of potential new demand in Labrador. The chart is

based on an aggregate of electricity demand from these projected projects. Some

of the companies the department has spoken with have indicated other possible

power requirements, such as multiple expansions, but formal requests for service

have not yet been made. Projects currently under construction include Tata

Steel, Canada's DSO project, and Phase 2 of the Iron Ore Company of Canada's

Concentrate Expansion Program. Labrador Iron Mines is already in production and

is exploring the potential to transition from electricity supplied by diesel

units to hydropower supplied by the isolated Menihek substation.

Projects undergoing feasibility study included Alderon's Kami Project, Grand

River Ironsands Churchill River Project, IOC's CEP stage three Project, IOC's

Long-term Expansion Program, Tata's LabMag Project, and Vale's underground mine

at Voisey's Bay.

Longer term developments included a second phase for the Kami project, the

Julienne Lake Project, a second phase for Grand River Ironsands, further

expansion associated with IOC, and the Paladin Aurora Michelin Uranium Project

near Makkovik.

To satisfy these future mining developments in Labrador, there clearly needs

to be a new source of power supplied. While our government would like to develop

Gull Island, Mr. Speaker, it is not an option at present. Gull Island can only

proceed if our Province can arrive at a favourable arrangement with Quebec on

transmission. Gull Island, if developed, can supply an additional 2,250

megawatts of power for Labrador industrial use or export.

Muskrat Falls is an ideal source for new electricity. At 824 megawatts, Mr.

Speaker, this project will meet the growing needs of the Island population, and

enable us to close the expensive and environmentally unfriendly Holyrood Thermal

Generating Station. It will also enable us, Mr. Speaker, to meet the growing

needs of the mining industry. Approximately 40 per cent of the output from

Muskrat Falls will be available to meet this energy demand. Until such time as

the power is required, the excess power will be sold on the spot markets in the

Maritimes and Northeastern United States.

The development of Muskrat Falls, Mr. Speaker, will also support significant

regional economic development in Labrador. Power will be available for

industrial expansion and development in the region at competitive rates,

encouraging development, which brings further business opportunities.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: It being Wednesday, Private Members' Day, Standing Order

63.(7) requires us at 3 o'clock to start the debate on the private member's

motion, and I call upon the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair to debate

the resolution that appears in her name.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise today to debate the motion that is on the Order Paper. I

will certainly read a copy of the motion as well, for the record, Mr. Speaker.

It starts:

WHEREAS we have seen many tragedies and many lives lost due to distress on

land and at sea, most recently, the death of fourteen-year old Burton Winters of

Makkovik, Labrador; and

WHEREAS ground search and rescue is a provincial responsibility and was the

first point of contact in the Burton Winters tragedy; and

WHEREAS the federal government has announced the Maritime Sub-Centre for

search and rescue services in Newfoundland and Labrador will close on April 25

of this year and, in fact, since this motion was tabled, the search and rescue

services centre, the Maritime Sub-Centre in the Province, has indeed closed; and

WHEREAS many questions have been raised about procedures and practices of the

provincial government and DND in relation to the Burton Winters tragedy; and

participate in, and co-operate with, a public inquiry into the circumstances

surrounding the death of Burton Winters;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House urges the Government of Newfoundland

and Labrador to conduct a full investigation into the Burton Winters tragedy and

search and rescue services in Newfoundland and Labrador using a public inquiry

under

section 3.(1) of the Public Inquiries Act which states: "The

Lieutenant-Governor in Council may by order establish a commission of inquiry to

inquire and report on a matter that the Lieutenant-Governor in Council considers

to be of public concern".

Mr. Speaker, that is the motion that is on the Order Paper, put forward by

myself and seconded by the hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains. Mr. Speaker,

that particular motion is in response to what we have seen as very distressing

events around search and rescue in Newfoundland and Labrador. First of all, with

the announced closure of the Maritime Sub-Centre, which has subsequently closed

since the time I tabled the motion. Then, of course, the tragic events of what

happened in Northern Labrador to a fourteen-year-old boy, Burton Winters. Of

course, since then, we have seen the closure of marine Coast Guard radio in a

number of areas around the Province as well.

All of these things, we feel, are having a very negative effect in terms of

search and rescue in this Province. We feel there needs to be a public inquiry

to study all of the facts, the protocols, the procedures and the services in our

Province. We need to be able to come to conclusions and recommendations on how

we can make improvements in our lifesaving services for all of the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. I do not need to tell anyone that we live in a

dangerous place. We have a rich, seafaring history and we are well aware of the

risk of living on the ocean. Thousands of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians earn

their living at sea and it is dangerous work. They deserve to be as safe as

possible.

Mr. Speaker, we have unique situations. We have a unique culture. We have

unique dialects. Many of those dialects can be challenging to decipher, and we

all know that. We have many men and women whose livelihoods require them to

venture into the wilderness. More focus needs to be put on improving the search

and rescue services in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, in our history we have seen many inquiries called in

Newfoundland and Labrador. The provincial governments alone, between 1980 and

1991 or certainly 1980 and 2000 are the statistics I have here; we have seen

twelve provincial inquiries that I have on this particular list alone. They have

been into the tragic deaths of a number of individuals, whether it was at sea or

on land, whether it was through shooting or helicopter crashes, whether it was

through fires or plane crashes, or drowning, and so on.

Mr. Speaker, we have had a number of inquiries, inquiries that were announced

and triggered by the provincial government, inquiries that were done in

co-operation with the federal government but were launched by the Province. What

we are asking for is nothing new, and we feel, Mr. Speaker, there needs to be an

inquiry into search and rescue in this Province. It

needs to look at the specific case of the tragic loss of Burton Winters as well.

We feel there are a number of questions that need to be answered with respect to

the Makkovik tragedy.

We have seen a number of high-profile botched search and rescue

efforts in this Province in the past. We have had public inquiries and

investigations into many of those. I look at a list that I have, Mr. Speaker,

that I had actually prepared of a number of those investigations. The Melina

and Keith II was one of those that saw the tragic loss of four lives in this

Province. We realize that investigation had to be done in order to find the

answers that were required and in order to make decisions that were going to be

in the best interests of many others who were venturing out on the ocean and

earning their living from the sea. It had to happen, Mr. Speaker.

The investigation by Transport Canada into the Ryan's Commander was

another incident in our history where we have been able to do an inquiry and

investigation to find out what went wrong in that search and rescue, and how

things could be improved. As a result of it, we have seen a

tremendous number of recommendations right from the stabilization of vessels to

the response times of search and rescue and the available resources that needed

to be deployed, and what procedures need to be followed.

In the Melina and Keith II investigation, I think that was the most

concrete evidence that we have seen of procedures that either were not in place

or not followed appropriately. Since that time they have adapted to calling it

protocols as opposed to procedures, with the same meaning, just different

wording; the language speaks to the same classification of change that would be

required in command.

Mr. Speaker, I am bringing forward this motion because I think we are dealing

with other cases in this Province today that we need to have an investigation

into or an inquiry into. The government themselves have said that there has been

a number of things that have been misinformation; they feel there needs to be

protocol changes and all of these things around this particular case of Burton

Winters. In fact, Mr. Speaker, we know that there are many peculiar questions

that need to be asked and need to be answered. They should be done under oath so

that we do not have the confusing information out there in the public that we

have today.

We have confusing information being put forward by the Premier of this

Province; we have confusing information being put forward by the Minister for

the Department of National Defence. We have confusing information being put

forward by the Member of Parliament for Labrador. All of these things have been

documented. They themselves have disagreed with each other publicly. I have the

documentation here of newspaper clips, radio interviews, and a number of other

things, Mr. Speaker, in which they have contradicted each other as it related to

information.

What we do know and what we do feel, Mr. Speaker, is that search and rescue

appears to have failed at both the federal and provincial levels in this case.

Burton Winters' case has come under intense scrutiny, public scrutiny, because

of the apparent search and rescue discrepancies that have been associated with

it. The internal investigations have identified serious flaws in how the search

was conducted. Communication protocols among search and rescue providers and

serious timeline lapses may have contributed to untimely search actions. The

assignment of search and rescue resources, including manpower and materials,

seems to have been highly inadequate in this case.

It appears that the level of due diligence and jurisdictional responsibility

expected from search and rescue providers appears to have resulted in a failure

for an effective search and rescue response for Burton Winters.

We need an inquiry; it needs to be independent and unbiased to review all of

the facts and make recommendations to improve search and rescue in our Province.

The entire process of the most recent tragedy has been deemed unsatisfactory and

grossly inadequate by the vast majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

The Burton Winters case has given rise to some very serious questions about

some very basic public safety features that are expected of our Province and of

the Canadian search and rescue system in general.

There have been various media investigations such as what we have seen with

The Fifth Estate, and anecdotal evidence among the public, who

have legitimate questions about the integrity of the investigations that were

conducted by officials responsible for search and rescue in this Province.

We feel there needs to be a transparency and accountability in order for

there to be proper public confidence in search and rescue in this Province. Most

importantly, we feel that there need to be facts and there needs to be full

disclosure in order for these recommendations to develop and evolve

appropriately. In order for us to ensure that we do not see similar occurrences

in the future and at least take the greatest safeguards that we can to ensure

that we do not see those similar occurrences in the future, we need to do what

is appropriate; an inquiry is definitely an appropriate step forward to do that.

Mr. Speaker, I have heard the Premier say time and time again that an inquiry

is not warranted. However, I would like to backtrack to just before the Makkovik

tragedy. It was in October of 2011 when the Premier said that search and rescue

services provided by the federal government must be investigated to see if

improvements are necessary. This was her statement after a Fifth Estate

episode on the search and rescue that was aired centering around our Province.

At the time, she said the following, and I quote it: "It is not satisfactory

to the people of this province, to the people who earn their living on the sea,

to be at further risk because of slow response time or policies that affect

response time in marine search and rescue". She said that she would vigorously

pursue this issue of search and rescue with the federal government.

However, Mr. Speaker, let us fast-forward to the Burton Winters tragedy and

how her attitude has since changed, how she is no longer prepared to look at the

in-depth issue of search and rescue in this Province, to look at what went wrong

in responding to this tragedy in Makkovik, like other tragedies where public

inquiries have been done in this Province. Mr. Speaker, it is an injustice to

the people of this Province and I can coin it in no other phrase than to say

just that.

We have had ministers on the other side, the Government House Leader, who

pushed for an inquiry into the wrongful conviction of people in this Province,

because he knew it was the right thing to do and pushed until he got it. I

myself was part of the Official Opposition who pushed to get an inquiry into the

faulty hormone receptor testing in this Province when the government opposite,

of which the current Premier was a part, refused to do that inquiry for weeks

and months, Mr. Speaker.

We did not relent and we did not give up. We knew that the right thing to do

was a public inquiry into what had happened with the faulty hormone receptor

testing in this Province in order to get justice for the many victims and to

ensure the safety of many others in our health care system as we went forward.

Finally, they did agree to do it, Mr. Speaker. They did it, and afterwards we

ended up with sixty recommendations in this Province that have served to improve

and provide a better level of health care to the people of this Province than we

had prior to that incident happening. Mr. Speaker, there are many other

incidents which I could talk about. It is unfortunate that the government is not

learning from their past mistakes and moving forward with this inquiry.

Mr. Speaker, I remember an interview that was published in The Telegram ,

December 24, 2010, when the Premier said she is not the kind of person who

envisions things ten years down the road, but prefers to live in the now. I

know, Mr. Speaker, she is not much of a visionary. If she is going to live in

the now, do justice for this young boy

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: do justice for search and rescue in this Province, and do an

inquiry.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the member her time has expired.

The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on a cold Sunday afternoon, January 29, in Labrador, a tragic

event took place that has cut at the heartstrings of every person in this

Province, if not in the country. A young boy's life was lost, Mr. Speaker. The

thing that we are debating here today is, when there was a recognition that this

young man might be in trouble, the forces that were called into play to try to

come to his assistance and bring him safely home to his family, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, nobody can hear about this tragedy without feeling a pain in

their hearts and souls, especially those of us who have children, because there

is nothing worse that can happen to a parent than the loss of a child. It is a

profound event in your life, Mr. Speaker, and I speak from personal experience

in my own family, where a young person was tragically killed. The life of a

family is never the same. The life of a parent is never the same. The best way

that I can describe the effect it has had in the life of the parent who was

affected in our family is that they will never know joy again. No matter how

well they have gone on and picked up the pieces, and dealt with the other

children in their lives, they never will truly know joy in the way they did

before since that event and the loss of their child.

There is a great appreciation for what the family is going through, Mr.

Speaker, and for what the community is going through, because they shared in the

life of this family and this young man. Mr. Speaker, what we have to do as a

government, beyond saying to the family that we understand these circumstances

as best as we can - having never experienced them fully and directly - that we

understand what you are going through. We understand that you never want anybody

else in this Province to come any closer to this kind of pain and loss than they

are at the moment hearing this story. We understand that the family wants that

for everybody else. They are heartbroken. They do not ever want anybody else to

experience this pain. They want the assurance that everything that can be done

in these kinds of circumstances is done. Beyond the family, and the family

thinking about: Is there anything we could have done differently?

Mr. Speaker, in Makkovik we have a community, we have the RCMP, we have

Canadian Rangers, and we have volunteers who worked diligently to save the life

of this young man. I am sure when they lie in their beds in the dark of night,

that over and over in their heads they are asking the question: Was there

something else I could have done? Is there something else I could have done

differently? Should I have gone left when I went right? I am sure people are

haunted by those kinds of questions, Mr. Speaker.

So it behooves a government particularly, Mr. Speaker, to step back from all

of that emotion, once we have expressed our condolences, and assure the people

who are most directly affected that we understand; to all of the other people of

the Province who may need to avail of this service in the future, that we

understand. It is incumbent on all of us to step back from the emotion of those

events, examine what went on and in this kind of a situation appreciate fully

that we are not dealing with a precise science, that there is no dictated way

that you can conduct a search.

People are trained, they are given the skills to make determinations, to

deduct from information that is given to them to make the best possible

judgments they can from the information they have available to them about what

they ought to do. There is a measured way to do searches and so on, but a lot of

it is based on very subjective information and bits and pieces you would get

from a number of different sources, Mr. Speaker. We have a system in our

Province that responds when somebody calls and reports that somebody is missing.

Mr. Speaker, very quickly, I am going to take you through chronological

events that began in Makkovik on January 29. At approximately 7:00 o'clock on a

Sunday evening, January 29, the RCMP got a call in Makkovik saying that a young

man was missing. Mr. Speaker, they put together a search team based on the

information that they had been provided by the family and began a search, first

of all right in Makkovik trying to locate this young man.

Mr. Speaker, as the evening progressed they gathered more and more

information. There was a possibility that they learned from information

provided that the young man had travelled out of the community on his Ski-Doo on

the ice and toward open water. Mr. Speaker, the search became bigger; they

called in more resources, such as the Canadian Rangers and volunteers on the

ground.

At approximately 11:00 o'clock that night, RCMP Makkovik had a conversation

with RCMP command here in St. John's, discussed all of the information they had,

the strategy they were exercising in conducting the search, and made a certain

number of decisions, Mr. Speaker. One of those decisions was to wait until first

light in the morning before they made an assessment as to whether or not they

needed air support.

So the search continued in Makkovik until the early hours of the morning. At

approximately 2:00 o'clock, the searchers stood down because they were out on

the ice, they could not see where they were going, the quality of the ice was

questionable, and we could have had another tragedy. Everyone stood down at

approximately 2:00 o'clock on the Monday morning.

At first light, they got back together, they reassessed the situation, and

they decided they needed air support. At 8:19 o'clock on Monday morning, January

30, they made a call to Fire and Emergency Services asking for air support. Fire

and Emergency Services called on the aircraft available to them in Goose Bay to

travel to Makkovik to participate in the search. We are told that because of

weather, these aircraft were unable to fly. As protocol dictates, Mr. Speaker,

they then went to JRCC, a joint search and rescue facility or organization of

the federal government, and requested air support. They made that call around

9:00.

They were going to dispatch a Griffon from Goose Bay. They have two Griffons

in Goose Bay. One was in deep maintenance. When they went to board the second

plane, she had an oil leak and they could not go. They did not make an

operational decision to deploy their assets from any other location in Atlantic

Canada.

Mr. Speaker, Fire and Emergency Services continued their contact with the

RCMP in Makkovik. Weather cleared sufficiently that they felt they could

dispatch an aircraft around 10:30 o'clock. At 10:45 o'clock, Fire and Emergency

Services deployed an aircraft from Goose Bay, Mr. Speaker.

The call came in at 8:19 o'clock in the morning. By 10:45 o'clock in the

morning, there was an aircraft from Fire and Emergency Services in the air on

the way to Makkovik for the search. Mr. Speaker, that first helicopter was

joined by a second helicopter at 1:00 o'clock that same day. We had two

helicopters in the air, Mr. Speaker.

On that same day, at 2:30 o'clock in the afternoon, aircraft were told to

stand down and that the air search was being called off. Mr. Speaker, they did

and they went back to Goose Bay. The RCMP continued their activities through the

evening and through the next day. They had called in their own aircraft to bring

in divers, and an underwater camera, in what they believed to be a recovery

situation at that point in time.

When that aircraft was asked to go look for debris, they discovered the

Ski-Doo, Burton Winters' Ski-Doo, Mr. Speaker. They then called in JRCC again,

who responded with a Griffon, and later in that evening a second plane, the

Aurora. They covered the search area twice, Mr. Speaker, worked until the early

hours of the morning, and their cruise timed out. They went down for a couple of

hours. Our helicopters were back in the air at first light and continued to

search until Burton was found.

So, Mr. Speaker, all of that is exactly how it all happened; the tapes

support it, every piece of information that we have supports that sequence of

events. There was one question arising out of all of that: the federal

government had resources available to it in Atlantic Canada, particularly in

Gander; they had three Cormorants that could have flown and could have gone and

participated in the search from 9:00 o'clock in the morning until 2:30 in the

afternoon.

When Minister MacKay said we will provide all information to you, we took him

at his word and we asked the question: Why did you not deploy from Gander? You

had the resources there to do it. They came back and offered up two reasons as

to why the Cormorants did not fly. One was because of weather, the second one

was because of their call-out standby protocols in Gander.

Now, Mr. Speaker, nobody has offered anything new from the federal government

since that first offer of providing information. We have asked for the

information and we received the information. Mr. Speaker, we are not satisfied

with the we know that is your rationale for not having sent out the plane; we

think your rationale is flawed.

We understand that you do not have a mandated responsibility to respond to

ground search and rescue in this Province. An inquiry cannot mandate them to

take that responsibility on. An inquiry can make whatever recommendations they

like. They cannot force the federal government to be responsible for ground

search and rescue in this Province, but there is a long-standing practice of

responding as part of a humanitarian effort when provinces ask you for

assistance. The service we offer in Newfoundland and Labrador is very similar to

what is offered across every other province in this country, Mr. Speaker, and

all of us call on the federal government as a humanitarian response when we need

them. Our position to the federal government is if you are not deployed in your

primary mandate doing search and rescue at sea and somebody calls for help on

the ground in Newfoundland and Labrador, you ought to respond you ought to

respond. We are asking you to change your protocols to reflect that, Mr.

Speaker. That should not be left to the judgment of a commander on the ground.

That should be a clearly established process that as part of your humanitarian

response, that you fly and come to help. If something happens at sea, you can

re-task your aircraft to go there, but when you can come, come.

Mr. Speaker, we do not need an inquiry to determine what the facts were. We

understand what the facts were and people did the best that they could do. Mr.

Speaker, the resources that were required and requested by the RCMP in Makkovik

were provided as soon as the weather cleared enough for us to provide them. It

was not an absence of resources, Mr. Speaker. It is around judgments people make

when you do not have a mandated responsibility about whether or not you are

going to respond.

Mr. Speaker, we can always do more. As we have the means, we will do more.

The people of the Province demand the service of us and we are satisfied that

service is being provided in the most responsible way that we can do at this

point in our history. Would it be that we could go back and change things, Mr.

Speaker? We cannot. Like the family, we want to make sure that nothing like this

ever happens again, if there is something that can be done to prevent it, Mr.

Speaker. We were assured, after our review, that what can be done is being done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the Premier opened her comments there and she talked about the emotion

surrounding the Burton Winters tragedy in this particular case, there is no

question. After visiting Makkovik, it was quite obvious that as a community and

as a family there is quite a bit of emotion, as you would understand, with the

loss of a life of a young fourteen-year-old boy.

Our PMR today, our call today, is calling yes, indeed, for an investigation

into the Burton Winters tragedy, but it goes a little farther than that in

talking about an inquiry into search and rescue in the Province in general.

The Premier told a story about her own family, and I can certainly relate

something very similar in our own life. Actually, someone in the gallery today

was actually closer to this today than even I was. I can remember an incident

that happened in our own community back a few years ago with the drowning of a

young eighteen-year-old boy. The community, the Ground Search and Rescue,

and the RCMP, indeed, were the first people called that day. After four or five

days of some intensive type searching, the body was not recovered. We knew it

was not a rescue situation, but there was a search required.

What happened is that the community did not give up. They kept searching for

the young boy. After seventy-three days of an awful lot of work that was done,

it actually took the efforts of a group that came out of the USA to actually

successfully find the young boy's body on the body of Bonne Bay Pond. It goes to

show all of us in some ways are emotionally attached to stories and unfortunate

tragedies that have happened within our Province. I am sure if we asked every

MHA in this House to stand up and give an example, they would all have one.

As Newfoundlanders, it is really hard to ignore in the early days of this

incident when you look at some of the responses that came of people like

Rear-Admiral Gardam and his comment about deploying the assets of the Canadian

Forces and not responding just because the assets could be needed to respond to

a Maritime emergency, or, for instance, a plane crash or some other primary

mission. Those sorts of comments are very hard to listen to in light of the

moment. When you think about what the protocol would do, indeed there was an

active search that was being undertaken in Makkovik at that time, responding to

the tragedy or just after the tragedy. It was very difficult to be able to

determine why someone in that capacity and someone at that level would actually

make such comments as that. Therefore it brought into question about where the

protocol actually is. What are the steps that should be determined? We have

asked questions in this House surrounding protocol.

I have talked to many people with emergency plans. What would happen, even in

our own health care system and in our own emergency departments? You see your

own local fire departments, for that matter. They like to have a hard and fast

plan which would serve as a guideline of how you would respond to incidents in

your own community, very similar to what happened in Makkovik on January 29.

Some of the information, through some of the questioning and all of this that

has come out of this situation, is that we have quickly found out that these

types of protocol are not really available to us. We have heard that the plan

was kind of an evolving one, so therefore the change is that you need to be

somewhat flexible.

If you go back to Makkovik, for instance, we had a young RCMP officer there

who was working that night. His first call went to the RCMP, his support, which

would have been in St. John's somewhere. So, when you think about that and the

timeline, do we know for sure - for instance, is there protocol in place that

will determine what should happen next? Because we know the next call came the

next morning to ask for support in that search.

Now, when you think about it, it is not about the RCMP officer who was on

call that night. It would be about any RCMP officer who was in a position to

make that first response. We know we have similar situations in many

communities. We have many communities, for instance, that do not even have RCMP

officers available to them. This is where hard, fast and written protocol would

help solve situations like this.

We all know about the dangerous place that we live in and how dependent we

are on the sea. We use if for our recreation, and sometimes we take a lot of it

for granted, I would admit. We put ourselves at tremendous risk many times as we

use our oceans and our bays, and indeed, our lakes and ponds to some degree, as

we use this. We will have tragedies that will take place, and there is no

question that an inquiry is not something that is necessary in every single

instance, we know that. It happens every week when you think about it, in our

Province. We will have tragedies, and these will not require public inquiries in

every single instance. I will assure you that over the years we have done many

inquiries and there have been a lot of successful recommendations that have come

out of them. My colleague there mentioned a number of those.

I did take the opportunity to ask myself, is this something that really needs

to happen now? Could an inquiry make a difference in this particular case, and

that is the Burton Winters case? Then if you take it a step further and look at

the Province as a whole, what assets do we now have available? What has changed?

All we need to do is look back, even within the last year we have seen

tremendous erosion in the types of assets, especially from the federal level,

that are no longer available to us.

I go back to the Coast Guard offices that have been closed in St. Anthony, or

scheduled to close in St. Anthony and St. John's, for instance, and how valuable

these people are as a first line responder when it comes to search and rescue. I

have some experience, I guess, speaking with some people who have been involved

in some of those offices over the years, that they play a very important role in

being the first responder. They understand the unique dialects that happens

right here in our Province. They understand the local geography. They understand

when someone speaks to a certain community that might be four or five

communities, for instance, in the Province. They have that unique knowledge of

our Province. That is important and it is going to be very difficult to replace.

When you look at the loss of the rescue sub-centre in St. John's, for

instance, and the great work they have done over years. There are a lot of

instances that we already know of where they have played a successful role. We

know of one in particular of course, within recent memory, that being the rescue

off Cape Harrison and the vital role that the Maritime Rescue Sub-Centre played

in all of that. That indeed was a successful one.

In thinking about this and what role a public inquiry would play, I went back

and did some research on some of the public inquiries and the valuable

recommendations and changes that have been made in protocol in our Province. My

colleague mentioned the Cameron Inquiry, and I was actually the critic for

health care at that time. Those recommendations today - I think as a result of

that, many people in this Province will say that it is unlikely those

recommendations would have ever happened if an inquiry did not take place. I

will say that there was a huge resistance at the time from government of the day

not to do an inquiry. There was a significant amount of pressure through the

Opposition, through external parties outside the House, to get this inquiry

done. I think when we look back at our history we will say that is indeed a very

successful one.

There was one in particular, a public inquiry that was done on a plane crash

in Labrador. Having some degree of understanding of what happened in that

particular instance, there was a crash that happened just outside of Churchill

Falls as the aircraft was approaching the runway, or approaching landing. What

happened was there was a certain particular battery that was supposed to be part

of the locator. At the time this battery was not working. I believe there were a

couple of people who perished very close to the airport. As a result of this

public inquiry, these are the type of changes that we have successfully been

able to put into, for instance, aircraft today. This is the advantage; these are

the things that a public inquiry could do to prevent this from happening.

One of the other things I would like to speak about today is the Cougar 491

crash. Of course, in our history we will all remember, I guess; this was one of

those defining moments. I think all of us will remember where we were on that

day. For me personally, I know it was really felt in our community because we

lost a young man from our community in that Cougar 491 crash. Today, just over

three years later now, we still have questions about what happened there.

There was an expectation that those aircraft could run for a thirty-minute

run dry. Even today, do we know with any degree of certainty that there is a

safety measure put in place? We know that this certification plan, as we

understand, that was recommended by the Transportation Safety Board, is not

happening today. Do we know, for instance, if someone goes offshore today as

our offshore workers leave here and they go to the rigs that are offshore - can

they go knowing that DND assets are available? We understand that they cannot

say that because it would be privileged information because it is a DND asset.

Is it fair? Should those workers expect that DND is there to support them? They

would be the primary search and rescue asset that would be available to our

workers offshore, or anybody else, for instance, who uses our Province for

instance, the fishery, the fishermen as they work offshore.

Are those primary assets always available to us? They are not, and we know

that they are not, because we know during the crash of Cougar 491 that they were

on a training mission in Sydney, Nova Scotia. We also know that in this

particular case, or the case of Burton Winters, there were some questions around

the availability of assets even at that time. Is there a communication plan

that, as a result of an inquiry, we could actually determine what role the

federal government through DND would play, and how we would respond as a

Province? Are there recommendations that could come to light as a result of

something like that?

Mr. Speaker, through all of this, there are many unanswered questions. Even

though the government, because of their access to all the details we believe

that we have that now. There are still a lot of unanswered questions and a lot

of confusion around the instance that happened in Makkovik. It really comes

down, in my mind at least, to a hard and fast protocol that needs to be

available when there are people who are actually on the ground when unfortunate

instances happen, so that they can actually respond in the appropriate fashion

in a way that is well-understood.

One other asset that is available to us that I would like to speak briefly on

is CASARA. It has been only in recent times that we have heard much about CASARA

at all. In actual fact, I think most people in the Province would not even have

been familiar with CASARA except for the news releases that we have seen in

recent days. I first found out about CASARA only about three months ago, that

they even had assets in Newfoundland and Labrador and were willing to

participate in searches. Yet, we find in our own Province that we are not able

to actually find a role for CASARA for whatever the reasons are that they could

participate in searches.

They have offered themselves; I would encourage the minister and government

as a whole to make sure that we find a place for people who can certainly add

value to the searches. I have spoken to some people since this who have some

experience with CASARA. What they tell me is that these are, in many cases,

retired military people who have extensive training. A lot of them are pilots

themselves, but they have a lot of experience using spotting. For instance, the

federal government, I am told, through the Canadian Forces, use CASARA right now

on searches within our Province. CASARA is a valuable asset for us to be

considering.

Mr. Speaker, when I looked, and I read, and I asked the question about the

role for the public inquiry into search and rescue and an investigation into the

Burton Winters tragedy, I asked that simply because there remains a lot of

confusion around the tragic events that happened in Makkovik. On top of that, we

still have unanswered questions about the assets that we would have available

and the protocol that is required to properly respond in an effective manner

through search and rescue as a whole in Newfoundland and Labrador, especially

when you think about that in the next couple of years, Coast Guard offices will

close, and that our Maritime Rescue Sub-Centre is already closed.

All we have to do is look back at what happened just a few hours after the

closure of that office when we found out. We thought we were very, very closely

monitoring what was happening here; indeed, what happened was we had calls that

were routed to Italy. That should never have happened. I do not think anybody

could ever stand here and justify that emergency calls offshore Newfoundland and

Labrador could be routed to Italy for medical advice.

Mr. Speaker, I will finish up; my time is up there now. I thank you and I

appreciate hearing more from the government on this.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER(Verge): Order, please!

The hon. the Minister Responsible for Fire and Emergency Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I too rise in this House today, I rise in this

House with a heavy heart in regard to the tragic incident that happened in

Makkovik on January 29, and transpired through over the next two or three days,

up to and including January 31 or so. I myself have reflected, as the Minister

of Fire and Emergency Services, many times in regard to this tragedy. As the

Premier has referenced as well, the people in Makkovik, the people who actually

conducted the search, at various times may very well go to bed at night and in

the dark of night question: Could I have done this and could I have done that?

I have spoken in this House before in regard to the private member's motion

that was brought forward by the Opposition some time ago. I went through the

real process trying to explain exactly how ground search and rescue works in

this Province and works exactly the same in any other province in Canada, and

probably throughout North America or Europe. It does not happen any different

anywhere else, in any other jurisdiction, depending on the type of government

and depending on the assets that are available.

I will just briefly explain again exactly how ground search and rescue works,

not only from my position as the Minister Responsible for Fire and Emergency

Services, and also I would like to speak from my position as being Canadian

Ranger for sixteen-and-a-half years.

I taught how to conduct ground search and rescue and I have conducted and led

ground search and rescue operations on numerous occasions in this Province.

Ground search and rescue starts when a person or persons are identified as being

missing. You do not, and you cannot, anticipate a person becoming missing. The

person has to be reported to an agency, either the RCMP or RNC, to become

missing in the first place. Then, a process of elimination starts. That process

of elimination depends on the variables and the factors that you have to take

into account in regard to the region, the area, or the specific community that

you are talking about. You have to look at all factors. You even have to take

into account the habits of the individual, or individuals, who are now

determined to be missing or reportedly missing. You have to take that all into

account because that will determine how the actual search and rescue process

actually spreads out, is conducted and is executed by the lead agency, either

the RCMP or the RNC in this Province, and the policing agency in whatever

jurisdiction that might be leading a ground search and rescue process, wherever

it may be in Canada.

Once those factors are determined, then a search is conducted. It is

conducted using an elimination process. You start at a central point and you

eliminate it in a perimeter type in a 360-degree circle type of process. You

eliminate each and every opportunity, I will call it I am trying to search for

a word a factor that might determine where the person is or might be at that

given time. You eliminate each and every thing you think might be a factor in

finding that particular person. Then you work yourself out, eliminating each and

every one of those factors until you either find the person alive or you find

the person passed.

As the Premier has mentioned in the past, ground search and rescue happens in

this Province annually. It happens sometimes daily. Several incidents have

happened since the terrible tragedy in Makkovik. Each and every one of those has

been a success. They were conducted exactly the same as they were in the tragic

event in Makkovik, other than the one in Bloomfield where the person was

determined to have gone into the water and the body was recovered. They

conducted the actual search in exactly the same way, no different than any time,

any place, or anywhere. It is all an elimination process that you go through.

I have heard the hon. members across the House say there is unanswered

questions, there is confusion, or whatever it may be. The Premier and I said on

many occasions, when the files were closed and we had all the information

available, all the questions that we had to ask to the federal government via

hard copy, which I believe we had to have our questions in hard copy to get the

proper answers, where we could all see and all read what we had asked and what

was responded to were there. We have tabled that, Mr. Speaker. We have tabled

the timelines in regard to exactly what happened in Makkovik.

I will touch on that as well, because the Premier went through the time

frame. The time frame, as determined by the RCMP report, was that the young man

in Makkovik left a home somewhere around 12:30, Makkovik time, that particular

day. He was not reported missing to the RCMP until approximately 7:30 that

night. So when you get an honourable member in this House or on Open Line, as it

was, or Nightline last night, saying that there were great variances in regard

to the timelines, there is a lot of confusion created. The simple reason is that

they do not understand or they refuse to understand the actual timeline itself.

Because, to include the time between 12:30 p.m., Makkovik time, to 7:30 p.m.

when the RCMP in Makkovik became aware that their possibly was a missing person

in their community in the time frame of the search is wrong. It is absolutely

wrong, because at that point in time until 7:30 in the evening in Makkovik,

there was no one missing. Always remember that. You cannot include that timeline

into the total timelines of the process. You have to take that out, because

there was no one missing until 7:30 in the evening.

Then the process of elimination started in Makkovik at that night, at 7:30.

They started to eliminate the community and go through it, and up to about 10:30

p.m. or so 10:40 p.m. I think it was the RCMP in Makkovik contacted their

headquarters here in St. John's, which was diverted to an air specialist at the

time that was on staff at the headquarters here at the RCMP in St. John's. There

was a conversation between those two people, and lot of factors were taken into

account in regard to the conditions, the weather conditions that were in

Makkovik at the time, various factors that had to be discussed between those two

particular specialists and they are specialists, all our RCMP, all our RNC,

are specialists in their own right in regard to the services that they provide

to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

That discussion, those factors it is fine enough for us to sit here X

number of months after that particular event and question, because it is easy to

question after the fact than to deal with it when you are there. Because I have

done that, and you have to make those firm, firm decisions at that particular

time. At that time, they decided to widen the search in regard to Makkovik. They

decided that they would not request air services until the morning, which they

did, in the morning. They further searched the community. They did a search out

on the ice. I must also mention at this particular time, that through that

process as well, you have to keep in account in your mind that yes, there is a

person or persons missing, but you also have to take into account the safety of

the searchers. You have to put yourself in that place at that time under the

conditions that they found themselves. In this case they were out on ice, after

they had eliminated the town and determined that there was a track that was

leaving the community. Ice was determined to be unsafe; conditions in regard to

weather, snow, was not the best. The safety of those particular searchers must

have been the utmost of the minds of the particular agency and the particular

people who were leading the search. They went through a process and I might

also say as well I bet any money, because I have been on them, I bet money that

each and every one of those searchers at any given time would have given their

own life to save that particular young man. That is a fact. I know that for a

fact in my mind. I have been there and I have seen it.

They went through that process and determined that they could not search any

more. So, they stood down in the early morning and they waited until daylight.

Then the RCMP called their headquarters again and they decided to call in and

call for air services. They called Fire and Emergency Services at approximately

8:19 in the morning. At 8:19 in the morning, my department went to work to

provide that service however they could. There was no question in regard to

should we or should we not; that is not a part of the process of Fire and

Emergency Services. Once that call comes in, we do not even question why we

should, or should we not; it is done, and we went after the services. We went to

our own contract services first; weather did not permit the aircraft to go

airborne. Then we went after JRCC, and for various reasons they did not provide

an aircraft at that time. We then went back to the RCMP; it was determined that

there was an aircraft in the area that was airborne in Makkovik then. We went

back to our own contracts and had an aircraft in the air within a couple of

hours after we had the call.

That is not too bad of a response when you look at other incidents, not only

in Newfoundland and Labrador but also in Canada. That is a really good response

time in which we went through the process. I will not go over it and over it

because the Premier did in regard to the services that we provided up to about

2:30 o'clock when we were told to stand down our services were told to stand

down and we particularly went from a search to a rescue mode.

I look at my clock up there and I see that my time is running out. I wish I

had a lot more time to talk to this particular subject today. I could spend a

couple of hours on my feet going through that process.

I have in my hand what I promised to table in this House, and that was the

timelines which is proven by RCMP records, by phone records, by Fire and

Emergency Services records, and JRCC records. Out of that whole process the only

thing that popped out to us, when I reviewed it, my staff reviewed it and

various other experts reviewed it, was: Did the JRCC, did the Department of

National Defence provide the services that we needed in the humanitarian

process? At first, if you remember, in the report that was given by JRCC they

particularly pointed out their core mandate. Their core mandate is marine search

and rescue, not ground search and rescue. They provide that service on a

humanitarian need and request.

When we request, what we need and what pops out and why there is no need for

an inquiry, Mr. Speaker, is because an inquiry will not change any of the

answers that we got back from the hon. minister, the hon. Peter MacKay, or his

department or his staff. It will not change it because we have the answers that

we required. What we are seeing in regard to those answers is that the federal

government have to review their protocols in regard to the humanitarian side of

ground search and rescue, and search and rescue in general. That is what we are

asking for, a change in that, so that we can have more of a confidence in regard

to the availability of the assets, the air worthiness of the assets and how they

will respond to a request. That is what we are asking for, and that is the only

question.

I hear the hon. members calling for an inquiry. An inquiry, yes, serves a

purpose in some cases. Just remember, do not confuse the two. All I have heard

in this House today is a need for some type of a look in regard to search and

rescue in general, not only for Newfoundland and Labrador, for the whole of

Canada. That is what I have heard.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. O'BRIEN: Ground search and rescue works, Mr. Speaker, in this

Province. I lived it, and I am the Minister Responsible

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. O'BRIEN: - and I feel just as confident today in the system as I did

only four months ago, Mr. Speaker. So in my mind, there is no need for an

inquiry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think if there is any one day that I hate to be an MHA it is today, to be

actually talking about the need for an inquiry, because I firmly believe there

is a need for an inquiry. To talk about something as sad as this should be

rattling all of our cages today and should be giving us all a wake-up call as to

the reasons why we are here in this House of Assembly, it is to represent the

needs of the people.

I do not know what kind of a stress level that family is going through, but I

tell you, I could not sleep last night just trying to come up with a few

comments on this particular one. I think we should all be shaking in that

regard. I figure that being in this particular role I have a responsibility not

only to the people of my own constituency but to the people of the rest of the

Province. So here we go.

I ask government to reconsider that simple fact about not calling an inquiry

because there are several reasons why we need it, not only for the family

themselves but as well to ease the minds of the people who searched out there on

the ice and searched over the land. As the Premier put it, to search for the

reasons why something happened and give comfort to the people who went left

rather than go right. That is one of the reasons why we should have an inquiry.

We have a responsibility to everybody whose life was touched by this loss of

a young man. What a beautiful young man he must have been. He absolutely meant

something to the people of his own family and to the people of Makkovik, and to

the people Newfoundland and Labrador in particular. We do not know how his life

would have resulted, but we do know one thing, that it is one life lost. If we

learn something, anything at all by having this inquiry, it is going to be that

we are going to be able to stand up and say that we did right for this young

man, if it is the last thing that we ever did in this House of Assembly. That is

the reason why we have to do it, not only for Burton Winters himself, but we

also have to do it for the family and we have to do it for everybody else's

security and safety. We also have to ensure that something like this never

happens again.

Some people may get up and say something in the order that it was God's wish

that they take Burton Winters. I do not know anybody in this world who would

actually say that this was the will of God that an accident like this would

happen. This is not the will of God that somebody should die out on the ice like

that. This is the will of somebody else. It is not the will of God that

something like this should have happened to this young man. Why? To improve

safety, obviously; we have to review all protocols and responsibilities of every

single person.

You and I, as human beings in this House of Assembly, to the people who are

out there on the ice, or the people who are out there, whether they are serving

with the Coast Guard marine rescue auxiliary, with the RCMP officers out there

who have to make the decision whether they are going to have wait until daylight

or not, to the police officers who are going to gather the volunteers. For

example, if it were around here in the immediate St. John's area, it would

probably be the St. John's Rovers, but either way, somebody has to go out there

in the woods and has to look for that person who is going to be missing. Why? To

bring comfort to a family and to bring comfort to the person who is lost,

because we are all in this together.

I want to say something about the Premier's comments because there are a

couple of things that she said. One of the things I want to wish her is courage,

the courage that she would be able to reverse her decision not to have this

inquiry. Because I think that there are a whole lot of people in this Province

watching. There are probably 514,000 people who are saying why can't we just all

get together and spend the money and ease the pain of one family that is out

there, and at the same time put up the new protocols, ask the federal government

to get together and work with this Province. Because we know that we are under

pressure from the cuts that the federal government are putting on us now. There

is no denying the fact that they are shirking the responsibility. Maybe it is a

humanitarian reason that the federal government needs to be reminded of that

they are in there, into the search and rescue. It is upsetting; it really is.

Cost should not be a factor here. A review of protocols should be the focus.

It was Major-General Vance himself who said that you may wish to review and

adjust our SAR posture procedures of readiness with a view that it remains

responsive to Canadians. Last I looked, I was a Canadian. If General Vance is

going ahead, he is turning his head and he is saying to Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians, and indeed to all Canadians, that it is okay for you to call for a

review of our procedures, then so be it. He is opening up the door to an

inquiry.

Former Premier Danny Williams on offshore safety after the Gulf of Mexico,

shared jurisdiction he was talking about. There are times when you have to have

an independent review. I believe that the former Premier Danny Williams has

opened up the door to that sort of thing because we went through that; it was

called the Turner report. How easy we all forget, but it is there and there were

others. Jack Harris, a Member of Parliament, an NDP, a great man, great member,

talking about the need for SAR, talking about a public inquiry into SAR, asking

the feds in the House of Commons up there. Have the feds responded? No. Whose

shoulders do they put it on? They put on the responsibility of the Province. It

is up to us to respond and to call that inquiry and call witnesses. If the

federal government has already opened up the door through General Vance's

comments, as far as I am concerned they have open up the door for this

government to be able to look at this in an honest light and say it is okay. It

is okay for government to change their mind. It is okay for them, and they

should show the courage to change their mind and open up the door to an inquiry

and put off that inquiry. It will be for the betterment of us all.

We have it going on in our own lives right now as MHAs. We have asked Judge

Jackie Brazil to go ahead and do a review of how things go on in this House of

Assembly, and it happens at regular intervals. We do it for something as simple

as that.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MURPHY: Well, okay, the Green report then. The Green report says that

we can come in here and look at our own protocols, we do it at regular

intervals, and we can sit down and we can do a review of that any time we want.

Look at the Ocean Ranger inquiry we have had other inquiries, the Ocean

Ranger inquiry and the Cameron inquiry. The Member for St. John's Centre was

part of that. Look at the Lamer Inquiry, the Minister of Natural Resources

showed extreme courage when it came to calling for an inquiry to right some of

the injustices.

So what can government do to improve things now? Simple things, I think, that

would probably come forward as regards to a public inquiry. There are certain

things that this Province can do right now to meet the need of the peoples of

Newfoundland and Labrador. For example, I will say cellphone coverage, more

investment in cellphone coverage, for example. I cannot get the fact out of my

mind that young Burton Winters was found with a cellphone in his pocket. Whether

he had coverage and that, I do not know. We need more investment in 911. I think

that is pretty obvious to see that it would go a long ways in order to make

things a little bit easier for people to respond. When it comes to cellphone

coverage and just 911, I do know of one tour company, for example, that was

chartered out a number of years ago to actually find out the range of how far

cellphones would work at sea, and that range came out around fifty miles. So we

know that we have new technologies that are happening, and it is up to us, I

think, to take advantage of new technologies at the same time that would help

out in search and rescue. It is up to us too, at the same time, to bridge that

gap with the federal government and remind them of their responsibility to

Canadians, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, to the Winters family, that we

should be a little bit more responsive.

So I think that we need this inquiry for the reasons that the Premier has

already stated, even though she does not want to see one happen, and to give

confidence to those who might turn left, rather than go right. We need this for

every other mom and dad who may be wondering in the near future the simple

question, and the need for the simple answer: What if it happens to them? What

if it happens to somebody else in their family? I think that it is up to us to

try to bridge that gap, and keep trying to bridge that gap with Peter MacKay and

the federal government, as much as the federal government is trying to shirk

their responsibilities these days, in the closing down of MCTS centres and the

close down of Coast Guard bases, that is happening over in BC too at the same

time; out of five MCTS centres that they have, they are losing three, and they

are losing a major Coast Guard base right in Vancouver. What is that going to

say to the residents of BC when it comes to search and rescue?

I really hope that if nothing else happens with this and like I said, I

think that there should be an inquiry. I think that we really should take a

second look at there being a need for an inquiry; it is really quite an

emotional thing. I do hope the Premier will summon the courage and the

conviction to at least try to sit down with that family and try to bring them

comfort. I really want to wish the Premier all the best when it comes to that.

Finally, in summing up because I really have nothing else to say on this,

as much as I have thought about it; it is really upsetting. I want to wish all

the best to the groups like CASARA, the St. John's Rovers, Marine Rescue

Auxiliary, the rangers, Coast Guard, police and fire services, and the

volunteers who are literally out there walking the line and looking after things

for us.

I will leave it at that, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister Responsible for Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. McGRATH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I too stand in the House today it is one of the days that you do not enjoy

standing up to speak on a subject such as we are speaking on here today. I would

like to offer my condolences certainly to Burton Winte