Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 20 May 2010 (46th General Assembly, 3rd Session, Vol. XLVI No. 25)
2010-05-20
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May
20, 2010 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLVI No. 25
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Today the Chair would like to welcome twenty-two Grade 8 social studies
students from Our Lady of Mercy Elementary School from the District of St.
George's-Stephenville East. The students are accompanied by teachers Darlene
Sexton and Marlene Farrell, chaperones Hayward Bennett and Sylvia Legge, by bus
driver Vaughan Hefford.
Welcome to the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: Today, the Chair welcomes the following members' statements:
the hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland; the hon. the Member for the
District of The Straits & White Bay North; the hon. the Member for the District
of Cape St. Francis; the hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi; and the hon. the Member for the District of Port au Port.
The hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate three individuals from my district, Melanie
Oates of Fermeuse, Jenny Dwyer of Goulds, and Jason Noel of Maddox Cove on being
recipients of an award at the fifty-eighth Annual Arts and Letters Awards.
Melanie Oates, one of twelve entrants in this category, received the Percy
Janes First Novel Award for her manuscript entitled, Hanging from the Ceiling .
Jenny Dwyer received the Senior Visual Art Award, which is indeed an honour, as
she was one of fifteen artists chosen from 213 entries in this category. Jason
Noble received an award for Senior Musical composition. Jason was one of five
selected for this award from nineteen entries.
I am proud to see programs that recognize and support the exceptional work of
many creative and talented artists, and the vital role they play in the
continued growth of our Province's cultural industries. This year, more than
$46,000 in prizes was awarded in literary arts, musical composition and visual
arts. There were over 900 entries submitted from the communities throughout the
Province.
Mr. Speaker, I will ask all hon. members of the House to join with me in
congratulating Melanie, Jenny and Jason on being the recipient of these awards.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White
Bay North.
MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate twelve-year-old Jake
Mitchell from Englee who won two separate events at the Newfoundland and
Labrador Winter Games this past March in Grand Falls-Windsor.
Jake is an avid table tennis player and was selected to be a member of the
Western Team. He certainly made the community of Englee very proud when he
participated in two separate events. First, with a team competition where he and
three of his team members were skilled enough to bring home the silver medal.
Secondly, in the singles competition when Jake played a number of intense and
close-scoring games, finally taking home the bronze medal with a score of 14-12.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join with me today in congratulating Jake
and to wish him well in his future competitions.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KEVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the Northeast Minor Hockey
Association. Never before in Hockey Newfoundland and Labrador has one
association won provincial championships in one division such as our Atoms did
this year.
Mr. Speaker, the Northeast Avalon Atom A team captured gold medal on the
Southern Shore defeating the Avalon Celtics 6-3 in the championship game.
Congratulations to the team and their coaches, Peter Haring, Blair Langmead, and
Colin Abbott.
Mr. Speaker, the Northeast Atom B team captured gold in Bonavista, defeating
the team from The Straits 4-2 in the championship game. The team played with
heart, determination and got some outstanding goaltending to defeat The Straits
team whom were undefeated in the round robin. Their coaches: Glen Parsons, Geoff
Moyse and Chris Browne were very pleased with their team's effort.
Mr. Speaker, the Northeast Atom C captured gold in Harbour Grace. This team
needed to score three goals in the final game against Twillingate to advance to
the championship. They defeated an undefeated Marystown team 2-1 in the
championship game. Their coaches were: Jeff Parsons, Derek Mills and Paul
Higdon.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Northeast Minor Hockey
Association. This association has grown by 280 per cent; since 2004,158, to
today, 439. This growth can be attributed to the new arena that we have in
Torbay, the Jack Byrne Arena.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask all hon. members in this House to join with
me in congratulating the Northeast Minor Hockey Association.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I stand in this hon. House today to recognize the International
Day Against Homophobia held on May 17 each year.
To mark this day locally, Planned Parenthood held a breakfast in St. John's
to raise people's awareness of homophobia's harmful effects, provide a positive
image of sexual and gender diversity and end exclusion. Dr. Ailsa Craig, a
sociology professor at Memorial University, gave an enlightening keynote address
highlighting instances of homophobia inherent in our society that we may not be
aware of and homophobic attitudes harboured by even the most progressively
minded individuals.
Mr. Speaker, few minority groups have been as discriminated against as the
gays and lesbians, but breakthroughs have been happening, and homosexual,
bi-sexual and trans-gendered people are stepping out of the shadows.
From the outside, it could be construed that all problems have been solved.
The media are sympathetic, public personalities come out, television shows
feature lesbian and gay characters in scenes of everyday life. Unfortunately,
the reality is quite different. Many individuals are unable to be honest about
their sexual orientation and encounter difficulties if they do, or end up
protecting themselves by playing the role of someone they are not.
Despite these situations, the International Day Against Homophobia does not
rest on a victimization philosophy. It is, in fact, a great opportunity to
highlight positive aspects of homosexuality and celebrate the contribution of
LGBT groups to our society.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members in this House to join me in celebrating
the International Day Against Homophobia and thank Planned Parenthood for their
continuing educational work as we hope for a day when homophobia, in all its
forms, is no longer tolerated.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port au Port.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. CORNECT: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in this hon. House to congratulate
the thirty-eight youth from the Stephenville-Port au Port-Bay St. George area
that were presented with the Gold Duke of Edinburgh's Award on April 23 in St.
John's by Her Royal Highness, Anne, The Princess Royal.
Mr. Speaker, the Duke of Edinburgh program offers challenges in four
categories: community service, physical fitness, skills development and
expeditions at the bronze, silver and gold levels. Completing all three levels
is a tremendous accomplishment. It is a certainly a program that develops the
character of our youth.
This program is very strong and active in my district thanks to the
dedication and commitment of the many parents and volunteers who help make this
program possible for our youth.
The youth should be proud, Mr. Speaker, of their accomplishments and all the
hard work that went into meeting the requirement to obtain the Gold Award.
Monsieur le Prsident, je demande l'honorable assemble de se joindre moi
afin de fliciter les 150 jeunes de la province, et surtout les trente-huit
mritants du Prix du Duc d'dinbourg de la rgion de Stephenville-Port au
Port-Baie Saint-Georges.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. Members of the House of Assembly to join with me
in congratulating the 150 youth of this Province and especially the thirty-eight
youth from the Stephenville-Port au Port-Bay St. George region upon receiving
the Gold Duke of Edinburgh's Award.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Merci, Monsieur le Prsident.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I rise before this hon. House today to
recognize Canada Road Safety Week which runs from May 18-24. Mr. Speaker, with
the Victoria Day long weekend upon us, people across this Province will take to
the highways to get to their cabins, favourite campgrounds, and to explore our
many towns and communities. With this increase in traffic, we must all do our
part to keep our highways safe.
Mr. Speaker, a key focus of our government's roads program is to maintain a
transportation system that puts the safety of motorists at the forefront, and as
our infrastructure vision moves forward, we continue to enhance our programs and
services to best serve the people of this Province.
The Department of Transportation and Works continues to invest significantly
to address road safety. Initiatives over the past few years include: the
construction of four new Weigh-In-Motion sites that help detect overweight
vehicles; the purchase of an Automatic Road Analyzer vehicle that identifies
areas requiring rut repair and maintenance; and the installation of twenty Road
Weather Information Systems that provide real-time data to our winter
maintenance crews enhancing the timely application of de-icing materials. These
initiatives also coincide with seventeen highway cameras currently in operation
across the Province, and I am pleased to say that three more of these cameras
will be brought into service tomorrow at our new highway depot sites in
Labrador.
Our key investments include: new mechanical brush cutters for each region of
the Province, part of an ongoing campaign that has cleared roughly 1,200
kilometres of brush to date; $2.5 million for line painting; and $650,000 for
the acquisition of two new paint trucks.
These initiatives complement our ongoing summer and winter maintenance
programs which covers such things as snow and ice control, pothole and shoulder
repairs, equipment maintenance and purchases. Our maintenance programs, Mr.
Speaker, have a combined value of approximately $111 million this year, over and
above our total road and bridge investments of $235.6 million in 2010-2011.
Mr. Speaker, my department and this government is making great strides to
keep our highways safe but motorists must also do their part.
I would encourage all hon. members and motorists - not just during Canada
Road Safety Week but every time they sit behind the wheel - to please take a
moment to step back, examine their driving habits and where necessary, make
adjustments to help create a culture of highway safety that will protect all
travellers on our roads.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I want to thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement and to say
that we, in the Official Opposition, also want to stress to our residents of
this Province of ours in Newfoundland and Labrador that they will keep all the
safety rules in mind this weekend.
Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but mention where the minister states: This
Victoria Day long weekend, the people across the Province will be going to the
highways to their cabins and their favourite campgrounds. So, I am glad to see
that the Minister of Transportation is looking after their safety. All I hope is
the Minister of Environment and Conservation looks after their safety up in the
gravel pits.
Mr. Speaker, it is good to see the various initiatives seriously that the
minister is referring to, but my hon. colleague when he heard you reading it, he
said: I would like for you to ask the minister if he would send the Automatic
Road Analyzer up on the Conche Road.
Anyway, we are pleased to see this initiative because that is what it is all
about, the safety on our highways.
Mr. Speaker, I notice the minister mentioned brush cutting. One of the most
serious problems we have on our highways is the moose. There is nothing I do not
think can really benefit the drivers in this Province as cutting back the brush
on our highways so at least the people can see the danger coming towards them.
He mentioned about the speed on the highways. Mr. Speaker, as I travel back and
forth the highways, and I am sure all members of this hon. House, that is
something else that has to be controlled, I know it is difficult to do but
people are not travelling our highways in a safe manner.
Mr. Speaker, having said that, I hope, on behalf of the Official Opposition,
everybody will have an enjoyable weekend and keep safety first and foremost in
their minds.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.
It is a good statement reminding people that with the holiday coming up, road
safety is extremely important. Also at this time, I would like to recognize the
workers who work on maintaining our roads. We could not have the roads we have
without the great work that they do whether it is summer or winter. I, too, join
with my colleagues in wishing everybody a safe holiday weekend, to drive with
caution, buckle up and do not drink and drive.
With regard to drinking and driving, I was pleased to see that in April,
Mothers Against Drunk Driving Canada announced that it is partnering with the
Royal Newfoundland Constabulary to introduce Campaign 911. This initiative is a
campaign to place roadside signs to encourage people to call 911 - may I add,
where it exists in the Province - to report suspected impaired drivers. I am
also glad to see that the RNC has developed a new zero tolerance policy towards
speeding and other moving violations. I think that is extremely important
because we become very complacent if the regulations are not put in place. I
believe that increased enforcement will make it harder for drivers to be tempted
to speed or run red lights.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?
Before the Chair calls Oral Questions, the Chair would like to recognize Ben
Sparkes, a Grade 10 student from Gonzaga High School who has a demanding task of
job shadowing the Premier today.
Welcome to the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I certainly wish him well because I tend to do that every day, Mr. Speaker.
It is not an easy job I say to my friend in the gallery.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Premier confirmed the taxpayers would be on the
hook for the environmental cleanup cost of Abitibi's former sites in the
Province - and we know that could be hundreds of millions of dollars. He also
stated that he knew very early on in the process that this would be the case.
However, on April 27 the Minister of Natural Resources stated, and I quote, "Mr.
Speaker, the polluter pays and under no circumstance will we be responsible for
remediation that Abitibi is responsible for. That is the bottom line."
I ask the Minister of Natural Resources today: Were you out of the loop, or
were you providing inaccurate information to the public of this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy
Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in this House there is only one group out of the loop, and
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: I will not point to them but they are on the other side,
Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, our provincial legislation states quite clearly, Mr. Speaker,
that the polluter pays. That is the law in Newfoundland and Labrador. What we
have facing us now, Mr. Speaker, is the courts in Quebec saying that the laws of
Newfoundland and Labrador do not apply what is more important is the financial
restructuring of AbitibiBowater rather than the environmental laws of the
provinces of this country. That is disgusting, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will say to the minister, she may think we are out of the loop but we
certainly knew a lot more about what was happening with this issue than she
knew, or certainly alluded to in this House.
I ask the minister again, Mr. Speaker, I ask her why the Premier would state
yesterday that he knew that this was the case for some time, yet she would stand
in this House on numerous occasions and say that the polluter pays and that it
would not be the Province that was on the hook.
I ask the minister: Why are you being less than truthful with your comments
in this House of Assembly?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Deputy Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, the assertation that has been made by the
Opposition time after time in this House, in this session, has been that because
we expropriated the mill in Grand Falls-Windsor that that action put us on the
hook for remediation. That is not the case, Mr. Speaker. Our legislation says
that polluter pays. Because of the CCAA process, the courts in Quebec have now
said, your legislation does not matter, it is not going to be applied because
the financial viability of this company is the most important thing to us, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, AbitibiBowater just went before the courts in that same process
and asked that Botwood and Stephenville, two parts of their company that we did
not expropriate, be put into a shell company, which they are going to collapse
and we now become responsible for those two areas of remediation, Mr. Speaker.
We did not expropriate either one of those, and had the mill still been with us,
they would have been in the shell company as well.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is obvious the Minister of Natural Resources got the same briefing book
that the Minister of Environment has, because, Mr. Speaker, under questioning in
the House of Assembly the Minister of Environment accused us of not
understanding the principle of polluter pays. It is obvious again today, Mr.
Speaker, that the person with the lack of understanding was the minister
herself. She stated continuously that she could not provide any remediation plan
or costing of these environmental liabilities until Abitibi submitted their
plans.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister today: Is she still going to wait for
Abitibi, a near bankrupt company, to submit a remediation plan or is she going
to do her job and get this process started?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity this morning to hear the Leader of the
Opposition on CBC and she said at that time that what we did was very deceptive.
Mr. Speaker, there is no deception here. We have a former Attorney General of
the House, opposite of us, who is a former Minister of Justice, who full well
knows how, or should know
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS JOHNSON: - how to interpret the Environmental Protection Act.
Under the Environmental Protection Act it is very clear that the person who
releases the substance into the environment should be the person to clean that
up. That is the basic premise that we went forward with, Mr. Speaker. However,
this ended up in CCAA court, Mr. Speaker, and we would never have thought that
two Quebec judges would have total disregard for the provincial law that we have
here, Mr. Speaker. Now we see very clearly why they did, because they have to
protect the interests of thousands of Quebec workers. That is very clear to us
now. We never did suspect that. That is exactly
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that the minister does not have
the notes that the Premier has because he obviously understands what is
happening here and realizes that this Province is on the hook for liability. Why
the minister continues to say the polluter pays when she knows in her own
legislation it states that the owner pays, Mr. Speaker, and under Bill 75 you
are now the owner.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: When are you going to complete the next
phase of environmental assessments to determine the scope of work required to
clean up those sites in the Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JOHNSON: Mr. Speaker, as I said, there is a former Attorney General, a
former Minister of Justice, take out the Environmental Protection Act and have a
look. Mr. Speaker, the basic premise of that is the person who releases the
substance is the person who has to pay. That is the whole premise that we issued
those orders under
section 99 of the act.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS JOHNSON: Mr. Speaker, we had no control over what happened in Quebec,
but as the Premier clearly, eloquently stated yesterday, we have to fight back,
Mr. Speaker, and one of those things is considering going to the Supreme Court
of Canada. This decision has very serious implications for every single province
of this country, Mr. Speaker, and I will be speaking to all of the Ministers of
Environment. Should we proceed with that, I certainly suggest that the
Opposition should be backing us on this because it has serious implications for
our provincial laws.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
If we could ever get to the facts of this and ever to the bottom of it and
ever get a full understanding of the information, we might be able to make a
decision, minister, on if we could back you or not. Mr. Speaker, the minister
also knows that the polluter pays is a different concept under expropriation.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: What cost estimates do you have for this
clean up within your department and will you share that with the people of the
Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JOHNSON: Mr. Speaker, we have been following through a process
throughout this. We have gone through the court under two occasions. We have
seen what has happened there. We have seen the bias that is in those courts, Mr.
Speaker, and we cannot stop there. We are reviewing all of the opportunities
that are before us at this point. One of the things we are considering is going
to the Supreme Court of Canada.
As I said, Mr. Speaker, in the first look at this decision, this is very
precedent setting for all the provinces across Canada. It is something that we
all should be concerned about in this House and throughout Canada, Mr. Speaker.
So until we have reviewed our options and exhausted every opportunity before us,
Mr. Speaker, we are not giving up on this.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister talks about doing something about it. She does not know the
scope of the work out there that needs to be done, she has not done all of the
assessments, she cannot give us a cost estimate on environmental liabilities.
So, minister, I suggest you start doing your work at home.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Natural Resources also stated on April 22 that
Fortis and Enel, the third party companies also impacted by government's
expropriation of the Abitibi assets, will be kept whole as a result of this
action. She stated that several options were being negotiated with the
companies.
I ask the minister today: What exactly was confiscated from these companies
that will require compensation from the Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural
Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, these companies, Fortis and Enel, had arrangements with
AbitibiBowater with regard to power generation on the Exploits. Fortis was a
partner in one of their generating assets and Enel was their partner in another.
Mr. Speaker, we made a commitment to both of those companies that regardless
of what happened with Abitibi, at the end of this process we would ensure that
they were kept whole, that they were properly compensated for fair market value
for the assets, and the PPAs that they have with Abitibi would also be honoured,
Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: I ask the minister: What the compensation will include? Will
these particular companies become partners with Nalcor in this power project, or
will it be a lump sum cash payment, or will they continue to receive royalties
from the people of the Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, these are negotiations that are ongoing with Nalcor and with
these two companies. At the end of this process, we will have a good
understanding of what the value of that asset is, what amount of compensation is
required to keep the companies whole, Mr. Speaker, and we will live up to our
obligations.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, what we do know is that there is a bill associated
with the expropriation of monies that will have to be paid out to Fortis and to
Enel. Mr. Speaker, whether that is royalties, whether it is shareholder status
with Nalcor or whether it is cash, we are not able to determine according to the
minister.
Mr. Speaker, what we do know is that the government, through Nalcor, is
currently providing or making the payments on a $59 million loan for Fortis,
monies that were involved with the Exploits River project.
I ask the minister today: How much are those payments?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I will have to get that exact information and provide it to the
Leader of the Opposition if I am free to do that.
Mr. Speaker, these are liabilities that these companies had in association
with the operation of their businesses on these projects. As part of our
obligation of keeping that company whole, Mr. Speaker, we took on those
financial liabilities associated with the operation of those projects until we
come to the end of the negotiation process.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is obvious that government has no handle on the financial cost of this to
the people of the Province. We are finding out again today more money is being
paid out - the minister cannot stand in this House and even give us the figures.
I can only say I hope the minister will be more forthcoming with the breakdown
as she was with the $8 million breakdown that I have asked for, because we do
not have that yet either.
We know the Province will not be a secured creditor in this process, but
there is an option for being listed as an unsecured creditor.
I ask the Premier today: Is this an option that you will pursue, and if you
do that, will this open us up to a court challenge in the Quebec courts, a
countersuit in the Quebec courts regarding Abitibi's assets?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, we are keeping all our legal options open.
As you know right now, we are seriously considering an appeal, leave to appeal
to the Supreme Court to deal with the adverse Quebec rulings.
What is happening here is the Leader of the Opposition is painting a picture
that is completely contrary - I do not want to use words like misleading because
I am not allowed to use that. I do not want to say that she is lying because I
am not allowed to use that, but in some manners, there are facts being presented
by her in a manner that are not actually correct. When we talk about the
environmental liabilities - because what she is trying to do is stack everything
up to figures that have been $500 million, $750 million, $1 billion, completely
and totally erroneous. She was on the radio this morning and she was asked by
the moderator: Are we not in a net better position with the assets? Do you not
agree? Well, I am not saying that we might not be. All I can say is it is a good
thing we have some assets.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier not to go reading from documents or newspaper items or
other comments that were made, but just paraphrase and refer to the documents.
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: First of all, it is a good thing that we have some
assets. So she has acknowledged that. Secondly, when we start talking about the
environmental liabilities, ballpark, 75 per cent to 80 per cent of those
liabilities are in connection with Buchans, they are in connection with
Stephenville and they are in connection with Botwood. None of those were
expropriated assets. None of those had anything to do with the mill. Those are
liabilities that would have been there anyway.
One final example, Mr. Speaker, when they were in government, the Hope Brook
Gold Mine, there is a press release that was out in 2002 whereby your Minister
of Mines and Energy acknowledged that they were paying $10 million for
environmental cleanup. That happens. Government end up with the liabilities when
the polluters go bankrupt or they go into receivership. That is the way it is.
The difference is we are protected because we all have the assets (inaudible)
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the difference here is that in 2008 the Premier
stated that the expropriation action would not cost the taxpayers of this
Province. Yet, Mr. Speaker, this is what we know so far, that we will have to
pay for the brick and mortar assets of Abitibi. We know that we have to pay out
millions of dollars in legal fees for lost challenges in the courts. We know
that we are paying millions of dollars for maintenance and security. We are
paying millions in compensation as far as we know at this stage, probably even
for Fortis and Enel. On top of that, we have a $500 million NAFTA challenge, and
we could be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars in cleanup costs.
I ask the Premier today: Why not come clean with the people of this Province
and tell them the amount of money that we are on the hook for as a result of
this expropriation?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, and I ask the Leader of the Opposition:
Whose side are you on? Are you on the side of the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador, or are you trying to build the case for Abitibi so that they can go to
NAFTA and say the Leader of the Opposition said this is worth $500 million or
$600 million or $700 million? That is what you are saying; that is what you are
doing.
What we do have is we have the power projects, and we have millions of
hectares of land, and we have our forest back, we have our timber rights back,
and we have the mill. Now that may have been an error, but it is a good thing,
because the situation in Stephenville - what is going to happen in Stephenville
is that we are going to end up with the mill anyway. We are going to have the
environmental liability, because at the end of it, the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, if the
person who is responsible for the pollution is not able to pay, we will have to
pay.
The difference in this situation is that we have the assets, and you,
yourself, acknowledge that is a good thing and I agree with you on that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The government knows that this deal that they have bungled so badly on
Abitibi makes the Sprung Greenhouse look like a success story, Mr. Speaker. That
is the reality of what we are dealing with here. It has taken us weeks in this
House of Assembly to finally get the government to admit that they made a
mistake and they blundered. It has taken us weeks to get them to admit that
there is going to be liabilities on behalf of the people of the Province.
So I ask the government today, Mr. Speaker, continue with the disclosure and
tell the hard-working people of this Province how much money that they are on
the hook for as a result of this blunder by your government.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I will tell the hard-working people of
Grand Falls-Windsor that we paid $40 million in severance pay, an unprecedented
act that has not happened anywhere else in the country.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I will tell the hard-working people of this Province
that national unions have written me personally, have written the ministers
personally, and written the government, and said how proud they are of the
action that we have done here in Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I will tell the people of this Province that I have
letters from community leaders
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: - in communities where Abitibi operates their
businesses, and those communities have written and said how proud they are of
the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador for doing what it is doing.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: That is what I will tell the people of this Province!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White
Bay North.
MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, the decision by this government to remove the air
ambulance medevac service from St. Anthony continues to be unacceptable to the
people of the region, and indeed by the Province, simply because it is a wrong
decision on so many levels. For some time, and as late as today, the Mayor of
St. Anthony has been asking for a meeting with the Premier to have the people's
voices heard before the service is moved at the end of the month.
I ask the Premier today a very simple question: Will you show some compassion
here and at least meet with the mayor and his delegation so they can express
their views before the air ambulance assets are taken from them?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, this matter has been dealt with. It has
been dealt with by the minister. The minister has met with the officials from
the Town of St. Anthony. He has met with the group that came in, the protest
group that came in. This matter has been dealt with time and time again. We have
indicated, in all fairness to the people of St. Anthony, that this matter is
final. This decision has been made. This has been done.
The reason it has been done is because the hon. the Leader of the Opposition
presented a petition and asked that this service be moved to Labrador. If that
had not happened this matter would never have been studied, it would not have
been questioned, it would not have arisen. I said before when I got on my feet,
I was not even aware that it made more sense to put this, actually, in Happy
Valley-Goose Bay. I was not aware that if we even put another air ambulance in
the air -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
If interruptions continue, the Chair will have no other choice but identify
the people who are causing disorder.
I ask the hon. the Premier to complete his answer.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I was not aware, Mr. Speaker, that if we put a third
new air ambulance in place that it would actually end up in Deer Lake. That
would be the next choice. So, as a result of her actions and as a result of this
study, St. Anthony has fallen far down the list.
Just a word of advice to the people of St. Anthony, it is unfortunate - the
mayor is trying to do a very good job and the people are trying to do a good
job, but there is a lot of nastiness coming out of St. Anthony from various
groups. I would just ask the member to convey my concerns to the people of St.
Anthony; things that have appeared on Web sites, things that have been said
publicly. So it would be better if they tone down their rhetoric and cease that
kind of action because that does not help anything.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White
Bay North.
MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, the frustration is because the people have worked
hard and they are prepared to come and sit with the Premier of this Province and
discuss the issue with him and he has refused to do so. So, that is where the
frustration is coming from, Mr. Speaker.
To suggest that this would never have been an issue, then I would suggest he
might want to read the letter from the former member, the minister of his
Cabinet, who suggested that he had worked hard and tirelessly within Cabinet to
keep the air ambulance there for the number of years that he was there.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. DEAN: Again, I just ask the Premier: Why in this case will he not
meet with those people to hear their concerns?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: The matter is done, Mr. Speaker, the matter is final.
Cabinet has made a decision. We have made a collective decision and that
decision will not be reviewed.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White
Bay North.
MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, DFO cuts to the shrimp quota in Area 6 continue to
obviously be a great concern to the people of our Province, particularly the
Northeast region which has been hardest hit by this slashing. The fishery
minister's response, as he mentioned yesterday, was to write a letter to the
federal Minister of Fisheries. This is simply not an acceptable representation
of our concerns, given the devastating impact, not just on this region but to
the Province overall, and the gravity for fishers and communities.
I ask the minister: What is he prepared to do on behalf of the people of the
Province to effectively push this issue with the federal government and help get
this industry through this very challenging time?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We are willing to do whatever it takes to make sure that the federal
government understands. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I have directed staff
to write a follow-up letter to Minister Shea. Immediately upon hearing that this
was a possibility, a letter was directed to Minister Shea. We have a follow-up
letter and, Mr. Speaker, the other thing that I am doing at this particular
point is having staff do an assessment of where the plants are and what impact
this will have on operation.
Equally, Mr. Speaker, I have had representation from the Member for St. Barbe
who informed me that he has been contacted by some individuals. So we will do
some follow-up work with the plants and the processors up there to see what
impact this is having and see what we need to do from there.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White
Bay North.
MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, yesterday we also heard the news of fishers and
community people reacting to this cut and they are discouraged about the future,
obviously, in the Province. Many are talking about packing up and leaving. These
people need our help.
I ask the minister again: What is this government prepared to put into place
to help compensate these fishers for the loss, especially given the fact that
the EI system is just inadequate to them?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I heard an interview from a Mr. Dwight Spence,
who I think is a very recognized individual in the shrimp industry on the
Northern Peninsula. There is no one disputing the difficulty that this presents.
This cut impacts some 350 harvesters, right in the member's district and along
the Northern Peninsula, and it impacts the Northeast Coast in general, Mr.
Speaker.
As I have indicated, we are doing an assessment of the situation. We will
follow it up with the federal minister and see what we can do to ensure that
they relent on this decision or that in future, that this not be the policy that
they abide by, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, on December 16, 2008, when we all passed Bill 75, the Abitibi
expropriation bill, we had to trust the Premier and his legal minds who drafted
it. He asked us to trust him.
Mr. Speaker, in Question Period that day I asked: Who would be responsible
for environmental liability with this new piece of legislation? The Premier
explained at the time that the expropriation legislation would supersede federal
bankruptcy law and that Abitibi would be liable.
Mr. Speaker, that is what the Premier said in this House and I was therefore
able to say yes to the legislation that was provided to us on extremely short
notice.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, now that the Province has lost every court case
trying to prove that what the Premier said on December 16, 2008 was correct, I
am asking the Premier: Where does he stand now with regard to this piece of
legislation?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: First of all, Mr. Speaker, to the Member for Signal
Hill-Quidi Vidi, you can still trust this Premier, in case she is implying
otherwise.
Secondly, at the time that we expropriated, and she certainly can remember
this, there was no bankruptcy at the time. This company was still solvent. We
had the foresight and we took the initiative at that particular point in time to
get out ahead of it because we saw and we anticipated the fact that this company
could possibly go bankrupt.
The reason that we actually expropriated, as I have said time and time again
in this Legislature, was to get control of the assets so that we did not end up
in a situation where somewhere down the road, if the company actually went
bankrupt and if there was nothing in the bankruptcy and if there were no assets
- because that company's stock at that particular point in time was plummeting.
We were watching it daily, so we knew exactly what was going on. If it got in a
situation where it went into bankruptcy - even if we had priority in a
bankruptcy and the legislation provided for the environmental liability - if
there is no money there and the secured creditors happen to rank ahead of us,
then we had nothing left, but if we went in and if we actually seized the
assets, then we were in the driver's seat, and that is exactly where we are
today.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the New Democratic Party.
MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, based on the Premier's answer and based on my
memory of what we discussed here in this House
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: - on December 16, 2008, I ask the Premier: When his legal
people were putting this legislation together, did they look at the implications
of the CCAA and that ruling that would come into place when bankruptcy happened?
Did he think about that? Did his legal minds think about that? If they did, why
were they not ready for what happened in the courts in Quebec this past week?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Absolutely, Mr. Speaker, we had opinions from the best people we could find
in this particular field. They advised us on exactly what the consequences were
of various options, whether it was a CCAA proceeding, whether there was a
bankruptcy proceeding, whether there was no bankruptcy, whether assets were
sold. We looked at every possible avenue, and we were provided with all those
alternatives.
What we probably could have predicted but we would have thought hopefully
would not have happened, is that Quebec and the Quebec judges and the Quebec
courts would have shafted us once again, and that is exactly what has happened
in every single decision that we have had out of that Province in the last
month. That Rgie decision, as I said in the House, was absolutely shameful.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Quebec lovers
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: If we could only keep the Quebec lovers quiet, Mr.
Speaker, it would be nice.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Excusez- moi, I am going to go back there.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier to conclude his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: So we had a terrible decision from the Rgie which
ignored all the rules - all the rules - and then we had a judge who
single-mindedly wanted to make sure that Abitibi was restructured, even if that
was at Newfoundland and Labrador's expense. You cannot predict that; there is
there nothing you can do about biased judges.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Premier finally admitted publicly that the
Province - that we - are on the hook for the cleanup of the AbitibiBowater
sites, no matter what happens in court; we know we are going to have to pay.
Mr. Speaker, will the Premier take immediate action to figure out how much it
is going to cost, so taxpayers will know how much this is costing them?
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, we are in the process, and we are in the
process, of course, of estimating exactly what those liabilities are. As I
indicated in a previous question from Mademoiselle, the Leader of the
Opposition, 75 per cent to 80 per cent of this cost will actually be related to
non-expropriated assets. Those assets would actually be Buchans - which is the
lion's share of all environmental liabilities Botwood, and also the
Stephenville mill, which is long past but, of course, obviously which we are
going to end up with at the end of the day because they have moved those assets
over to a shell company in order to avoid liability.
The difference is, and I keep repeating this, that we are in the driver's
seat. We have control of these assets. They are not in the hands of a receiver;
they are not in the hands of a trustee in bankruptcy; they are in the hands of
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees
Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to stand today to table a
summary
report of the activities and costs with respect to the Consumer Advocate in
relation to insurance matters in respect of the fiscal year commencing April,
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents.
Notices of Motion
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To
Amend The Portability Of Pensions Act. (Bill 22)
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?
The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to
introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Insurance Adjusters, Agents And
Brokers Act. (Bill 21)
MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
It is a pleasure to be able to stand today, seeing this is the last day
before the May 24 weekend celebrations, to present a petition on behalf of the
residents of Triton, Great Harbour Deep, Robert's Arm, Brighton, Miles Cove and
Burgeo.
WHEREAS we the people of Newfoundland and Labrador have always built cabins
or tilts away from our homes for hunting, fishing, berry picking, or just
spending time up in the country or places around our shores, sometimes to just
get away from the stress of everyday living, a place to relax and enjoy the
great outdoors; and
WHEREAS your government has come down hard on the thousands of cabin and
trailer owners that are out on the land with eviction notices, and forcing them
to move without providing them with an alternative; and
WHEREAS Kruger Inc. has timber rights to approximately one-third of all
forest land on this Island and is refusing the vast majority of applications for
cabin development;
WHEREUPON your petitioners call upon all Members of the House of Assembly to
urge government to have compassion on the citizens of this fair Province and
allow them the right to enjoy what is rightfully ours. We were born on this land
and should have the right to enjoy it; and
As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, this is just another petition of many that I have presented on
behalf of those people. Some of the questions they are asking: This government
was elected in 2003; why did they wait until 2009 to come and evict people from
the gravel pit areas? Why are they so iron fisted? In other words, listen to our
rules or else.
Mr. Speaker, they are also, I guess, disappointed that not one member of
their elected officials they have from the many communities that I have named
over the last couple of weeks have stood in their place when they are making
their speeches to just bring forward the concerns that they want to express.
Mr. Speaker, I say to the government and to the minister: If you are offering
campers a site that meets government's requirements, like you have done for the
people in the Whiskey Pit area, help them to implement the new changes. Because
those people are used to a tradition and a culture here in the Province for
many, many years, and all they are asking is to help them organize with the new
approach that you want them to take.
All you have to do is read the papers and listen to the people like the
residents on the West Coast, like the Crewes, the Wiltons or the Brakes, how
they feel about this and how upset they were to know that they were evicted from
some places that they have been for years. Ninety-five per cent of the people,
Mr. Speaker, have not done anything environmentally unfriendly in this Province,
and some of them have been evicted while others have not been evicted.
I am asking government to re-evaluate your heavy-handed approach. Consult;
work out a long-term solution to the practice that you find so unacceptable. If
possible, why does the department not come down with a written policy that would
be equal and fair to everybody?
Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, I want to wish a happy May 24 weekend to all
those who enjoy the country, and in particular to the people in the gravel pits.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?
Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board, and Acting Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, from the Order Paper, Concurrence Motions, 2.(
a) Government
Services Committee.
MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the report of the Government Services
Committee be concurred.
The hon. the Member for the District of Exploits.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FORSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The past couple of weeks have been very informative. We had the opportunity
to review the Estimates of many departments, including: the Department of
Government Services, which also includes the Government Purchasing Agency; the
Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat, which includes the Volunteer and
Non-Profit Sector; the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs; the
Department of Finance, which includes the Public Service Commission, and the
Office of the Chief Information Officer; the Department of Transportation and
Works, which also includes Newfoundland and Labrador Housing.
Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank the ministers and their
departments - I believe I did that before; I will do it again for taking the
time to allow us to review their Estimates and budgets, and also to the
Committee, Mr. Speaker. The operations of government and the different
departments take in a wide range of questions that might come up in any
department.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to refer to an ongoing issue for the past couple of
weeks that has been coming up here regarding AbitibiBowater and also the
contamination that has been, I guess, wrongfully entertained or transmitted,
especially by the Leader of the Opposition and the members of the Opposition. I
believe that the Minister of Environment and Conservation did her due diligence
regarding the contamination into the referred areas that we talked about in the
Town of Botwood. She said that there were no public announcements, that the
public did not know, the people did know in the area.
Well, Mr. Speaker, on October 29, there were soil testing results available
that went out in a public release available for the former rail bed in Botwood,
Mr. Speaker. Prior to that, a couple of months before that, the Department of
Environment notified the council in Botwood what they were going to do. They
were basically going to hire a consultant to go into the community and do some
soil testing in that area.
Basically, the results from the soil testing from the former rail bed in the
Town of Botwood, when they were available, there were no immediate human health
concerns that were identified. Although the results indicated the presence of
heavy metals, the soil where the metals were detected is covered by a layer of
gravel which essentially eliminates the potential of direct human contact with
the impacted soils.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. FORSEY: Yes, that is absolutely right, she said that we did not
inform the people of Botwood and this did not go out publicly. In response to
the Minister of Environment and Conservation, she did her due diligence.
Apparently, the results were part of an ongoing environmental assessment by
the consulting group who did the work on the former AbitibiBowater properties in
Botwood, Mr. Speaker. This is important. It is important for the people out in
the Central area to realize, and especially for the residents of Botwood, to be
aware that while the samples do not point toward exceedances of the recommended
guideline for soil quality along the former rail bed, which is frequented by
outdoor enthusiasts, this data does not indicate any immediate potential human
health concerns. That was also a statement by our Minister of Environment. She
also stated that our goal is to be open and transparent, and we are following up
on a commitment we made to the town to inform them of the results of the
testing. This was on October 29.
In September - and I have heard the Minister of Environment talk about Phase
I, Phase II, Phase III, which the Leader of the Opposition still does not get
for some reason, because she has been getting up in the House here the past
couple of weeks asking the same old questions and getting the correct answers
from the minister, but she still gets up because she cannot understand it. So,
in September, the consulting group began Phase II of the environmental site
assessment on AbitibiBowater's property in Botwood. As part of the assessment,
samples were collected along the former rail bed, which was part of the
infrastructure used to transport concentrate from the former mine in Buchans.
While samples indicated some levels of arsenic, lead and zinc above Canadian
Council of Ministers of the Environment residential soil quality guidelines, no
immediate potential human health risks have been identified. The samples which
were collected did not come from exposed surface soil near any residential
property.
Now, that was October 29, and the minister's department officials had met
with the town a couple of months before that. How do I know that? Well, I was
also at the meeting when they were informed on October 29. On November 5, there
was a local paper that put out a nice bit of information on this soil testing,
which I still believe that is public as well. So if it goes into a public paper,
a newspaper, or local newspaper, I am sure it is very, very public. I cannot see
how that could be kept in somebody's office in a drawer or in a safe somewhere.
This was November 5, and the heading says, soil testing identifies no immediate
dangers. The mayor of the town also noted that himself and the deputy mayor met
with the firm about two months prior to that, and they were told what they were
going to be doing, said the mayor. They were not just doing testing in Botwood
but anywhere Abitibi had been operating.
So, Mr. Speaker, it just goes to show the due diligence of this department
and the minister on her ongoing concerns with any contamination out in the
Central region. The news about the results having no immediate health concerns
that pleases us immediately said the mayor, but they are going to continue on
with testing. That means that the consulting group and the department will
continue on with the testing. We have no concern at this point in time, said the
mayor of Botwood.
Mr. Speaker, this confirms that the minister has been open and transparent
about what she has been talking about, but apparently, the Leader of the
Opposition would rather ignore the facts and the truth and just carry on with
the rhetoric that she has been getting on with and trying to scare people out in
the Central region for no reason whatsoever because it has been kept open and
transparent for these people out there. I think there was questions asked here
today, Mr. Speaker, questions asked by the Opposition and answered very, very
well by our Premier who said that -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FORSEY: Thank you.
Answered very well by our Premier that if there is
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. FORSEY: I think our Premier responded very well to the questions, Mr.
Speaker, concerning the contamination and the cleanup again. Yes, we are not
going to leave parts of our Province in an environmental mess, and I have heard
the minister say many times that we take the environment seriously, we take the
issues seriously. That is why we are up in Buchans spending $9 million or
whatever it is cleaning up after some company had gone and left and never paid
for it.
Yes, we may have to clean it up, Mr. Speaker, but as the Premier said in
response to the questions he was asked - and I am sure that probably Tuesday
when we come back, or Monday, whenever it is, they will probably ask the same
questions again, although it seems fairly clear that even though we are going to
look after the contamination, make sure that there is no problem out there with
the environment, we now have the assets. We have the assets of the company which
is going to be worth something. It is probably going to be worth more than what
the environmental cleanup is going to be, but we are not sure of that. It may be
less than what the environment - but whatever the case, Mr. Speaker, this
government and this Premier and this Cabinet, and especially the minister, are
very much concerned about the environment and the contamination out in Central
Newfoundland that was left by AbitibiBowater. She is going to be open and
transparent about, every step of the way, on what is going to be happening out
there, Mr. Speaker.
So I just thought I would try to clarify that. I am sure that all the members
in the government caucus understand it. I do not expect that that is going to
happen with the Opposition, Mr. Speaker. In the meantime, if we have to, next
week we will still give them the same answers. If they ask different questions
they may get some different answers, but where they ask the same questions all
the time they have to get the same answers because it is the truth, but they do
not want to deal with the truth, Mr. Speaker. That is important for the people
out in Central Newfoundland that I live out there. So does the Member for
Grand Falls-Windsor-Buchans and also the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor-Green
Bay South, Mr. Speaker, and any other member in the Central region. We live out
there; we live on those grounds. Do we want to live in an area that is not safe?
I do not think so, Mr. Speaker.
It is fine for the Leader of the Opposition and any other members they have,
that one of them lives over on the Southwest Coast somewhere, or he is from over
there. I do not know if he lives there now. The Leader of the Opposition is from
Southern Labrador and I am not sure if she lives there, she could live here in
St. John's. So they really do not have a lot I am not sure if they even know
where some of the communities are out there because they do not understand what
is going on with the issues with AbitibiBowater out there, Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) is to or what?
MR. FORSEY: I just said I do not know where you live. The Member for
Burgeo & la Poile, if he lives on the Southwest Coast, well fine and dandy, but
he does not know maybe the other 99.999 per cent of the population over there
do know, but I am only referring to one person, and that person is the Member
for Burgeo & la Poile, Mr. Speaker. I doubt very much if he knows what is going
on there. He might have been down there during a by-election or something and we
probably will not see him any more until the next election. We will be lucky
then if we do if we see him. He will probably be flying over in a helicopter
with the Leader of the Opposition like they usually do.
Just for the information and I will say this one more time, is that out in
Central Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, is where I live. I live with these people and
we are not going to live in an area that is not healthy, and this government
will not allow it.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I would love to get back to some of the issues that we
discussed in the Budget. We had the privilege as a committee to review the
revenues, expenditures, the Estimates of a number of different departments,
which I had mentioned earlier, Mr. Speaker. One of them, of course, was through
the Department of Volunteer and Non-Profit Sector. That is a very new
department, Mr. Speaker. What is so important about this department is that the
volunteers are finally getting recognized for their dedication and the work they
do in their communities. Our Premier saw a need for this department to ensure
volunteers are promoted and recognized.
This past year, Mr. Speaker, our minister introduced a new award called the
URock Award for volunteers, which allows the opportunity for our youth
thirty-and-under to be publicly recognized for their contributions to the
community and the Province. I am sure it will continue because I know the
minister has a passion for the volunteers. He was also involved in Fire and
Emergency Services a number of years ago. He dealt with our volunteer fire
fighters right across the Province. Now he is taking in a wide range of
volunteers, right from minor sports volunteers to Lions Clubs, Kinsmen, Knights
of Columbus and right on across the Province with different volunteers, Mr.
Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: What a minister.
MR. FORSEY: Yes, he is.
Mr. Speaker, another department that I found really interesting, of course,
and always an interest, is the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. It was only
recently that there was actually, last week, there was an announcement of a $3
million investment in social housing renovations and retrofits for the Central
region, Mr. Speaker.
The Governments of Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador announced last week a
$3 million renovation and retrofit to work on 381 Newfoundland and Labrador
Housing units, which is great for Central Newfoundland.
The Minister of Transportation, who is also responsible for Newfoundland and
Labrador Housing, made the announcement last week. It says Central Newfoundland
- this is another thing that really bugs me. The Opposition seem to think that
we do not know anything about rural Newfoundland and Labrador; we do not know
anything about it. Well, 75 per cent of our members on the government side are
from rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
The investments in Newfoundland and Labrador Housing in the retrofits for
Central Newfoundland - and I do not know, maybe you can tell me if this is rural
Newfoundland or if it is urban: Summerford, Fogo, Port Union, Point Leamington,
Peterview, Botwood, Lewisporte, Port Rexton, Harbour Breton, Robert's Arm,
Milltown, Springdale; $3,123,000 being invested in social housing renovations
and retrofit which is also part of our Poverty Reduction Strategy, Mr. Speaker.
We had the privilege this morning to actually have a multi-faith breakfast
this morning here and all the different denominations got together. I believe
most of the government officials, and some of the Opposition members as well,
attended. This is what they were talking about, how this Province is faring in
the country with regard to our poverty reduction. We, in 2002 or 2003, were at
the bottom of the pile. Today, Mr. Speaker, we are third in Canada. We have come
a long way in the past seven years, Mr. Speaker, and it is all to do with our
Poverty Reduction Strategy and this government. This social housing investment
in the Central region is part and parcel of that particular investment.
Mr. Speaker, Transportation and Works were part of our Estimates committee.
It is a huge department. I recall when the minister back in March month made a
release of $1 billion slated for infrastructure spending in Budget 2010. I think
the minister went on to say that our government has a vision for a strong and
prosperous tomorrow for the people of our Province. This, of course, is evident
if you look at the investments this year. I will just name a couple quickly, Mr.
Speaker, because time flies when you are trying to explain to the Opposition the
facts and the truth from what they are saying.
Transportation and Works, Budget 2010 provides $367 million for various
infrastructure initiatives, Mr. Speaker. Roads 2010, $177.7 million. The
provincial government investment will be supplemented by an additional $57
million from the federal funding, for a total road and bridge investment, Mr.
Speaker, of $235 million the Provincial Roads Improvement Program and the
improvements to the Trans-Canada Highway and our National Highway System, Mr.
Speaker.
In the marine area, $55 million is provided to continue with the vessel
replacement strategy, Mr. Speaker, because there was very little investment in
our vessels and our ferries in the past number of years and years, and all of
them, I guess, are wearing out their life and we cannot get the money in fast
enough to actually get the ones on the water that we need; $12.5 million for
ferry vessel refits; $5 million for maintenance and upgrades to ferry terminals,
Mr. Speaker.
Eight million, Mr. Speaker this is a nice one here - $8 million is provided
for the purchase of a new air ambulance to replace the current air ambulance in
St. John's; over $50 million towards the purchase of four new water bombers.
I am trying to get through this fast because this was an announcement by the
Minister of Transportation, and in his announcement there was a budget for 2010:
Municipal Affairs, $135 million; Education, $183 million; Health and Community
Services, $208 million this is for infrastructure; Environment and
Conservation, $3.6 million for the replacement of the Crabbes River bridge;
Justice, $15.9 million; Newfoundland and Labrador Housing, $27 million. These
are all investments in infrastructure projects for 2010.
Mr. Speaker, in our Estimates we reviewed Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs,
and there are some good investments in Labrador when it comes to infrastructure
and roads.
MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that his time for speaking has expired.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave, to clue up.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member.
MR. FORSEY: Okay, yes, sure. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, I just wanted to clue up. There have been a number of investments in
Labrador in the past couple of years, Mr. Speaker, because this government knew
that it was needed, and it was needed not only in Lab West or Lab Central but
also Southern Labrador, Mr. Speaker, and that is evident as well by the new
school investments down there in Southern Labrador, actually in the District of
the Leader of the Opposition.
Aboriginal Affairs I recall reviewing the Department of Aboriginal Affairs,
and the challenges in Northern Labrador. I listened to the Minister of
Aboriginal Affairs speak in the House the other day and talk about Labrador, and
the spectacular beauty in the Torngat Mountains, Mr. Speaker, and the
investment, like $50,000 for recreation for the Aboriginal youth. She made
mention that the first time that the Aboriginal youth travelled to national
events was in 2008. That must have been very overwhelming and rewarding for the
Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.
To clue up, Mr. Speaker, it was certainly very informative and rewarding to
be able to review the Estimates of the different departments. I certainly
support and concur with the Estimates and I thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate an opportunity to have a few words here in debate today. The
Government Services Committee of the Estimates process has returned their report
to the House, and that is the purpose of today, of course. Normally, we would
have no objection to any member having leave to continue beyond the allotted
time; but, of course, today we are all on a limited time period as to how long
we do have to debate these Estimates, so we will certainly be confining
ourselves to the time that we do have, and will not be overextending ourselves
or requesting leave in that regard.
Of course, the Member for Exploits was the Chair of the Government Services
Committee, and there were certain departments of government that, in fact,
report and deal with Estimates of certain departments. They were: Labrador
Affairs, Aboriginal Affairs, Intergovernmental Affairs, Finance, Transportation
and Works, and Government Services.
Now, as Opposition House Leader, I happen to be the critic for two of those,
one being the Intergovernmental Affairs Department, and the other in Finance. I
will have some comments with respect to those two departments, and what happened
in Estimates. I also had some involvement in Justice and so on, and I will
reserve most of my comments regarding the Justice piece for when we deal with
that when the social committee reports back. I will also, of course, have some
comments; because, even though we had that rule of relevance, it is pretty wide
open when it comes to debating the Budget in general, and this is part of that
process, and what the commentary can be. As we saw, for example, the Member for
Exploits, probably like myself, going to be wandering from one topic to another
and so on, so there is a fairly wide latitude as to what you do.
First of all, the general public love to know, for example, what goes on in
Estimates. I have always been a firm believer, going back to the time that I was
here in 1999, that the Estimates process should be televised, the same as we get
the House of Assembly televised, because that is when you get into the nuts and
bolts of what happens in government. That is when you can ask a minister and his
or her officials all kinds of questions and they do not get to duck; they do not
get to give you a load of rhetoric. They have to answer it; because, if they do
not, they look really stupid - really, really stupid - if they do not answer it,
if they try to duck it.
In Question Period, of course, a lot of times they do not answer. Then again,
I said to some minister one time: How com you never answer the question? He
said: Well, it is called Question Period, not answer period.
That was a pretty good response, too. That showed the kind of respect for the
process that the government minister of the day had. Anyway, we plowed ahead in
Estimates and we had some interesting commentary, like the Minister of
Intergovernmental Affairs, for example. That, by the way, is what I call a
pasture department. That is the pasture, because usually all of the negotiations
between the provincial government and the federal government, of course, would
take place at the executive level in the Premier's office, but when you had this
IGA, Intergovernmental Affairs - that is usually a case where you have somebody
who you cannot put out of Cabinet, or do not want to put out of Cabinet, so you
put them over in IGA.
We had a great old Estimates discussion with the minister of the day, the
Member for Mount Pearl North, I guess it is
AN HON. MEMBER: Mount Pearl South.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - or South, and some interesting questions. For
example: Whatever happened to Dr. Feelgood? What are we doing with the office up
there? Dr. Feelgood, of course, that is the Premier's buddy who he sent up to
Ottawa to look after things, to make sure that all of the meetings were arranged
and doors were open; because, no doubt, we had such a great relationship with
our federal colleagues that we just needed a door opener. Anyway, the door
opener is back here in the public sector somewhere now.
We also had some indications of all the agreements that have been signed
between the feds and the Province. We did not have much when it came to some
stuff, like what happened to 5 Wing Goose Bay, but we did have the minister, for
example, tell us, and the Minister of Labrador Affairs, they told us when this
House opened back in March, they said: Well, sure, we have just been up in
Ottawa and talked to the Minister of Defence about what is going on with the 5
Wing Goose and the NATO contracts.
Unfortunately, what they forgot to find out was that before they touched the
tarmac back here in St. John's, NATO had given the contract to some Americans,
but they did not know that. That shows, somewhat, the effectiveness of that
department.
Meanwhile, we have the office up there, by the way, that Dr. Feelgood had, at
a cost to the good taxpayers of this Province of $100,000 a year. The lock is on
the door. There are newspapers piled up outside the door. We are paying the
freight, we are paying the bill, and nobody cares about that. We do not even
have anybody working there today. Dr. Feelgood came back and went into the
public sector, and we do not have anybody up there even. We are just paying the
rent, nobody home.
Then, of course, we had Finance. We talked about this year we are going to
have a deficit, last year we had a deficit, and next year we are projecting a
deficit. Very interesting. The Minister of Finance tells me, of course, and it
is in the Budget documents, that our financial situation for this year was
premised on the fact that oil was going to be selling for about $84 a barrel. I
hope that stays true. As a matter of fact, we are probably going to have to do
some make up between now and next March 31 because from my look on the TVs and
reading the business
section of The Globe and Mail , for example, I think
we are somewhere down in the seventies in the last three weeks. We lost about 20
per cent in the matter of the last three weeks or so. Obviously, if we do not
get that $84 figure per barrel, we are going to have some nasty red ink floating
around come next March 31.
Given the branding exercise of this government, they will associate red ink
with Liberals. They will not try to suggest at all that it was in any way caused
by their Administration. They will blame that on the world markets then.
Instead, if it happens, the minister knows who we are going to blame it on. We
are going to blame it on false information or improper information that you had
in making your estimates in the first place; they were not reliable. Anyway, we
will see what happens, that is a year down the road and we will see how big that
deficit is going to be.
I had some interesting stuff from the Minister of Justice. The Minister of
Justice, of course, forgot to tell anybody that they cut out the detention
centre up in Happy Valley-Goose Bay forgot all about that. The Leader of the
NDP raised it first, and he gave a little pat answer. Then, when we delved into
it, sure enough, lo and behold, they spent a couple of hundred thousand dollars
on it and all of a sudden it is cancelled.
Now, he uses a cute word, he says it is not cancelled, we just put it on hold
until we do a review. Well, folks, for anybody who does not know it, when you
put something on hold until we review it, that equals cancellation. You can
fudge it, you can colour code it all you want, that equals cancellation. There
is no pre-detention centre going to Happy Valley-Goose Bay, it is off the table.
He can tell you what he likes. That is the bottom line. It is off the table.
The good Minister of Labrador Affairs, he was up in Labrador telling the
people in the Status of Women Council: Oh no, do not worry about it, that is all
on, that is coming. Here it was in the Budget documents it was scrapped. I will
get lots of time to talk to that when we deal with the other Social Services
Committee. I will come back to that.
In the meantime, I would be remiss if I did not comment on the Minister of
Business. We had some fun in Estimates with him. There is the minister who is in
charge of $32 million to invest in this Province - $32 million. Last year he had
the same amount, $32 million. Do you want to believe how much they put out the
door in terms of investment and attracting business to this Province last year?
The total of the $32 million that he had, he put $4.5 million out the door in
investments. Guess what? It took $5 million to run the Department of Business to
put $4.5 million out the door. That sounds like a good bang for your buck
doesn't it? We have a department that could put out $32 million, they only put
out one-eighth of it, and yet, it is costing $5 million to have them up there.
Now that is the pet project that the Premier created, of course, back in
2003. That is his pet project, the Department of Business. We have not seen much
of it. So far, in its existence, they have put out $10 million so far to date.
Eight million dollars of it went to Harbour Grace. That is the place, by the
way, where they just laid off dozens and dozens of workers last week. That is
where $8 million of it is gone. So we will talk about success in the Business
department, when we get to that, a bit more. Anyway, that is just my overall
summary remarks.
In the course of debating all this, of course, and doing Estimates and
everything, we get a lot of e-mails, we get a lot of phone calls as members I am
sure, whether you are on the government side or whether you in Opposition, you
get phone calls about people who have concerns. I have gotten several in the
last couple of days about the Premier's rhetoric. It came from very concerned
citizens and their commentary is to the tune of: Why does the Premier have to
beat up on everybody who happens to have a different opinion than him? Why is it
necessary to do that? Why can you not voice your disagreement, express your
different opinion without having to be nasty to them? The Premier, of course,
seems to be very, very physical - and I guess his history has proven that. We
only need to look back - I think there was one time, before he even got into
politics, he had a go at Mayor Wells. I think he said he should be taken out
back of the stadium and given a you-know-what knocking. I think that was his
comment back a few years ago.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: He said take him out back of the stadium - for the
members who do not know the history on it, there was a little dispute between
the Premier who, back then, was in private business, a private citizen, and he
made a comment to Andy Wells. He should be taken out back of the stadium and
given a "S" knocking. Now, you can fill in the word that is missing.
He also had a case where he had a disagreement with this fellow who happened
to run the company called Abitibi. It was back in the days of Stephenville. They
were talking about Stephenville - what are we going to do, keep it going or not
going? The Premier makes a comment and says he deserved a fastball up side of
the head. That is pretty good. That is good rhetoric coming from a Premier to an
executive of a major corporation just because you have a difference of opinion.
People are asking that stuff. Why does he need to be like that? You get your
point across.
Then there are some, of course, who were really, really shocked when he went
out here in the lobby I think it was or out front, and somebody said about the
crowd down at Eastern Health about what they did on the press release on a late
Friday afternoon. Guess what he said? They should all be took out and shot. They
should all be took out and shot. That is not bad that is pretty physical,
isn't it? Take them out back of the stadium, give them a fastball up back of the
head, they should be took out and shot.
What did he do yesterday? There is no such thing as we disagree with Quebec,
we disagree with the courts in Quebec and you can voice your opposition to what
they did vociferously. You can do it, no question. What did the Premier say? He
had to put it in the other language, the aggressive, physical language: I am
going to get down on the ground and roll around with them, he said. Get down on
the ground and roll around with them. Well, I do not think that is what is going
to be necessary to resolve any differences we have with the people of Quebec. I
do not think that is necessary. That is a pretty good start to say let's go out
and roll around on the ground. Anyway, I guess that is his way of acting and his
demeanour.
Now, the other thing that the people of this Province have witnessed in the
last few weeks is how blindly certain ministers toe the line and say what they
are told to say absolutely sometimes absolutely blindly. I will give you a
couple of examples. We have the Minister of Natural Resources, she was asked
repeatedly in this House over the last three weeks different questions about
this Abitibi piece, particularly the environmental costs, the cleanup of it, who
pays the bucks, who pays the freight on that, and so on. We were told repeatedly
by this Minister of Natural Resources the polluter pays the polluter pays. We
kept saying repeatedly back: Minister, are you sure about that? We do not think
that is the case, Minister.
Then along comes a Quebec case, right or wrong, the judge comes along I
think the Premier referred to him as The Great Gatsby Justice Gascon who is in
charge of looking after the bankruptcy proceedings that Abitibi is involved in.
He is the overseeing judge. He said he had his opinions. Again, somebody who had
a difference of opinion with the Premier, but he was biased, he was everything
else. In fact, it was even referred to - the Premier's disrespectful behaviour
they figured. That is what they called it. They classified it as disrespectful
behaviour that found its way into the brief that went to the Court of Appeal
that was put in there by the lawyers for Abitibi. So, what we say here in this
Chamber gets heard and seen in other places. I would suggest there is no need
for it. Anyway, it happened.
Then we have the Minister of Environment, of course. Now, we have had some
issues over the years here repeatedly. For example, we had the good people of
the Province, the municipalities, who were told by this minister at one point:
Shut down your teepees. Then we get the Minister of Municipal Affairs who has
not figured out what they are going to do with their waste, but anyway, that
happens. We have tires by the millions piled up down in Placentia, I do believe.
We do not know any plan of what we are going to do with them. We do not have a
clue from this Minister of Environment what we are going to do with those tires.
We do not hear a peep out of her when it comes to the caribou getting
slaughtered up in Labrador. We do not hear a peep.
When it comes to Abitibi, of course, she is the one who stands on her feet
every day and says: Mr. Speaker, we take the environment serious. We are very
concerned about the environment, Mr. Speaker, very serious. Well, no doubt she
is. She also got up and spouted this off about the polluter pays. Lo and behold,
the Premier comes out yesterday and says: We pay, we pay! Now, that is a big
about-face. All of sudden we have two Ministers of the Crown, the Premier's hand
chosen people, who were out for two or three weeks telling the people of this
Province: Polluter pays, polluter pays, polluter pays. The Premier walks out
yesterday and says: Polluter does not pay, we pay. Then the next question is:
Well, how much do we have to pay? We tried to get that question answered for
weeks here as well. They still never had any answers on that. We went back again
today. At least the Premier told us today we are trying to get an estimate done
on that. We are trying to get that information compiled. We are trying to get
that compiled. So, hopefully, we will see that shortly.
Of course, that is not the only two ministers who said that. They are not the
only two. I was reading a quote this morning. I happened to see - I got a copy
of The Packet and that is covered off, of course, by the member who is
the Minister of Business. He did a report to The Packet saying: Don't
believe that Opposition crowd. Everything that they tell you, you have to take
it with a grain of salt. You cannot accept what they tell you. Lo and behold,
hidden away in the letter that he wrote to the editor - it was not any newspaper
misinterpreted what he said, folks, this was the Minister of Business, the
Member for Trinity North, wrote a letter to the editor of The Packet and
outlined where all of these falsehoods were being spread by the Opposition. One
of them was this thing about the cost of cleanup of Abitibi. Do not believe
them, he said, the polluter pays. Now, you talk about parroting what someone
else says. Blind faith -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair has given a great deal of latitude on debate, but it is my
understanding we are debating the Government Services Committee and I would ask
the hon. member to try to refer to the subheads under that particular committee
- the departments under that particular Committee.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and right now I am dead centered
under the Department of Finance, because everything that I just referred to when
it comes to cleaning up the cost of Abitibi is going to come square and fair
under the Department of Finance. We might not know, Mr. Speaker, what it is
today, but I can assure you the people of this Province will know soon enough
who is going to pay the bill on this one. If that is not relevant, I do not know
what is. The Department of Finance fits here pretty squarely, Mr. Speaker.
That brings me to the case, as well, that comes under Finance, and that is
the Rgie ruling. There you go again. A Minister of Natural Resources put a
motion in this House, Monday past, for private members' debate, this Wednesday,
saying we are going to talk about what they did in Quebec and the Rgie; how
they did us again. There is only one little problem, Mr. Speaker, we are trying
to figure out the ramifications of what that is going to cost us. We know from
what the Premier told us and some officials told us of Nalcor in a briefing what
it said. We said just a minute now; excuse me, because we were accused one time
before. You listened to Bill 75 in a briefing so you should know all about it.
The minute, of course, that they bungle on Abitibi they say: Well, you read it.
You were there. You saw Bill 75. We said, well even though it was not our fault
by the way, they had the best legal brains in the world that did that for
them. We just took what they fed us, and we never had much time to eat it by the
way. We only had about an hour from the time they told us to the time we were in
here taking it.
Now, Mr. Speaker, the Rgie ruling. We said: Isn't it pretty logical that you
French. No, the Minister of Government Services said we do not need that. He
before we can go on to talk about it because the Premier or somebody told us
what was in it. Well, needless to say the Open Line host tore strips off him,
and no doubt he should have. How could anybody possibly suggest that you come
into the House of Assembly and debate a 130-page ruling that nobody has had the
opportunity to read?
Well, fortunately, while the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs was on the
Open Line saying that and while the Minister of Business went right on behind
him and backed him up, guess what, Mr. Speaker? While all that was happening the
Minister of Natural Resources was on the phone with the Leader of the Opposition
saying: Can we take that off? We do not want to debate that because it is not in
and debate it. You had the Minister of Natural Resources saying we cannot do it
because it is in French, the same as we were saying. Anyway, they withdrew it.
Mr. Speaker, I only get twenty minutes. I would not dare ask for leave
because I am sure I would not get it. Based on that, Mr. Speaker, I have
forty-five seconds to clue up here.
I think I have made my point here, that all of this comes back to cost, Mr.
Speaker. Everything comes back to cost on the Abitibi piece; what we are not
doing, for example, in the environmental piece that we should do when it comes
to the tires, it all comes down to a cost. When we figure out what is going to
happen in the Lower Churchill situation, this is all cost factors. As time goes
on we will continue to probe. We will lift the peels on this onion and find out
what stinks beneath it, and as we peel back the onion, Mr. Speaker, we will find
more and reveal it to the people of this Province.
I will be back when I get another opportunity in the other Estimates
committee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Before I make my comments, Mr. Speaker, I would like to just take a moment
today to express my deepest sympathies, and I am sure everyone in this House, to
the families of three missing teenagers from my district, the District of
Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair and the communities of Charlottetown, Cartwright, and
Happy Valley-Goose Bay. We had a terrible tragedy, Mr. Speaker, at Muskrat Falls
a few days back and it is so sad that we lose these three youth who were doing
the millwright program in Happy Valley-Goose Bay at the College of the North
Atlantic and they were to graduate tomorrow. It is indeed, Mr. Speaker, a sad
time for Labrador and for our communities, because we are all intertwined. We
all know each other, and indeed - and I want to also take a moment, Mr. Speaker,
to thank publicly the efforts of the RCMP Ground Search and Rescue and to the
many volunteers who are out, as we speak, searching for these three young men.
Mr. Speaker, to my comments this afternoon, I do want to talk about a number
of issues. We just heard from the Opposition, and I will say, they stand on the
other side so righteous, but let me say this: they have been clued out - I say
clued out - of what is happening in this Province and that is why, Mr. Speaker,
in 2003, the people of this Province made a very clear decision. That decision
was to give the royal Liberal Party, the hon. royal order of the boot. That is
why they are over there and we are over here.
As I said many times in this House, why did the people of this Province do
that? Very simple. They wanted change. They were sick and tired of the policies,
the lack of governance, and the lack of leadership that they were seeing by the
governing party of the day. They saw in Premier Williams and this government as
an opportunity for change and an opportunity to move forward. That is why, Mr.
Speaker, when we look at the polls the people of this Province have given this
Premier and this government overwhelming support when it comes to the big issues
in this Province. We have many challenges, Mr. Speaker, but I will say that I
think we are taking these challenges, we are taking them seriously, and we are
taking them head on. It is not easy to govern, and it is easy to give it away.
We saw too much of that in the past.
I remember those days, Mr. Speaker. I was in municipal politics for almost
twenty years, and I remember former Premier Brian Tobin coming into Churchill
Falls, going to do a deal with then Premier Bouchard and had everything all
printed up. Well, guess what? He forgot one very important group of people to
consult with - the Innu. He never even talked to them until they showed up and
shut her down. I saw Premier Tobin sitting on the flatbed of a truck on the
corner of the Trans-Labrador - or then Churchill Falls Road, as we call it back
home, and Hamilton River Road. Oh, going to build the Trans-Labrador Highway.
Well, I can tell you what, Mr. Speaker. We did not see any of that being done, I
can tell you, under that Premier.
Then, I remember the days of former Premier Grimes when they wanted to take
the $97 million out of the Transportation Initiative Fund and put it into
General Revenue.
AN HON. MEMBER: What?
MR. HICKEY: That is what they wanted to do. They wanted to take it. They
did not want to build a road up in Labrador, as they were, yap, yap, yap about
it, but I can tell you, they were good at yapping, as I have often said, Mr.
Speaker, but they were not very good at doing. That is the difference with this
government.
I want to take a couple of minutes to say, Mr. Speaker, to talk about what we
are doing in this Province. One of the areas that I have a great deal of
interest in is the area of education, Mr. Speaker. Education, and the education
of our youth, is one of the most important investments that we as a government
can make in the youth of our Province. The investments we are making in 2010,
Mr. Speaker, is certainly a tribute to our commitment to educating youth in our
Province.
As the hon. Minister of Education said recently, quality education is vital
to our youth and for the prosperity of our Province. Our government has made
tremendous advances in education in recent years and we are continuing to make
the right investments in Budget 2010.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I would ask the hon. member - we are debating the Government Services
Committee and I would ask the member to try and tie his comments to that
particular committee.
MR. HICKEY: Well, Mr. Speaker, as we move forward there are a lot of
things that we can talk about here in the relevance of it all. I can tell you on
education; it seems to be an opportunity to again just say that we have invested
a tremendous amount of money into that. We have a tremendous amount of money
invested in the Northern Strategic Plan for Labrador, and all aspect of health
care and that in our Province, Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: It is too bad they don't value the teachers in Labrador.
MR. HICKEY: Well, I thank my hon. colleague for raising that, because I
have to say, Mr. Speaker, a few days back we heard the Leader of the Opposition
make some comments here, and I have her in Hansard here. She says one of the
schools in St. Lewis, for example, kids between the ages of Kindergarten to
Grade 6 were going to be left in a classroom with one teacher. Mr. Speaker,
because parents lobbied against that, that change was made. So I say minister,
the infrastructure is a huge bonus.
Mr. Speaker, we are doing more in education. We have a new school in the hon.
member's District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. We have a new school in Port
Hope Simpson, another one in L'Anse-au-Loup; tremendous investments, Mr.
Speaker, when it comes to education in Labrador. When we look at the College of
the North Atlantic in Labrador West and the investment we are making over there
for post-secondary education. When we look at the new francophone school, Mr.
Speaker, that we built in Happy Valley-Goose Bay for our French community there
in that particular region.
So, Mr. Speaker, we are doing great things throughout this Province in
education. I will say, when I listened to the hon. member getting on with some
of the trite that we listen to here in the House of Assembly, without question
the hon. members across do not have a clue as to what is sometimes happening in
this Province and where we are moving.
Mr. Speaker, we have now one of the greatest opportunities of any province in
this country to move forward, but it will take great leadership. It will take us
in which we are going to have to stand our ground. For instance, with the
Province of Quebec, with Abitibi, and there may be others down the road.
I can tell you, as the MHA for Lake Melville, I am not one bit too happy with
Voisey's Bay Nickel and what is happening with the strike up in Labrador, as is
my colleague, the Member for Torngat Mountains. We are very concerned about what
is happening in Labrador. Having said that, on the other side we have the
expansion of the mines in Labrador West which has been a great help and benefit
to the economy over there; great investments are going to be over in Labrador
West. We have two new mines going to be looking at operating up in
Schefferville.
So there is great wealth coming to this Province, Mr. Speaker. I want to say,
I think it is because of this government and because of our leadership that the
message is out there. The time of giveaways is no longer, no more. We saw enough
of that from the crowd on the other side when they were there. If we had not
taken over the reins when we did, Mr. Speaker, I would say she would have been
gone, but we got her back. We got her back because of the calibre of our
Premier, because of his leadership and the leadership of this government and
this Cabinet, Mr. Speaker. I can tell the people of the Province that there are
good things coming. We have seen the rough roads in the past; we have gone over
the bumps. I can tell you what; this Province has a bright future, as bright as
any in this country.
I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I was not scheduled for today but I guess you fill in when you have to fill
in.
Anyway, Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to be able to stand today and make a
few comments with regard to the Government Services Committee. I am hoping to
remain relevant, if at all possible, even though the Minister of Labrador
Affairs only spoke on education, mining, and I think that was about the extent
of it, so forgive me if I should stray on the wayside from time to time.
Mr. Speaker, it has been mentioned, I think, by my hon. colleague, that the
Government Services Committee was under the Chair of the Member for Exploits and
took in the Departments of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, Intergovernmental
Affairs, Finance, Transportation and Works, and Government Services, and also
various components that go along with those departments. I will just reference
one - Transportation and Works - we looked into the situation of Newfoundland
and Labrador Housing.
Mr. Speaker, I cannot help and I guess it all falls under Finance but go
back to the speech last week that my hon. friend, the Member for St. John's
South, had when he got up, when he had the red and the Blue Book, talking about
the finances back in the early days of 2001-2002 versus what they are today. He
made some pretty good comments, I will agree with that, but he referenced when
the next election is called. I think that was the first election speech I heard
leading into October, 2011.
Mr. Speaker, he mentioned about the equalization, what we were receiving from
Ottawa in 2002-2003, in the vicinity of $1 billion-plus for 30 per cent of our
finances, or a proximity to that, versus today, 2010-2011, of $662 million,
approximately for 10 per cent. Like he was saying, there was less and less
dependency on Ottawa.
He mentioned some very interesting issues, like the reduction in the personal
income tax. He mentioned what we were putting into health care back then versus
today, and the municipal infrastructure of $65 million versus $275 million. That
is all accurate. Even with all of this new revenue coming on stream, we have
heard it said that you are looking after the funds properly. I will go along
with that to a certain degree, but there is one thing that he left out, and I do
not know why the hon. member would leave it out, and that is where all of this
wealth came from. I agree the wealth is here, you are spending it in wonderful
ways, helping every district in this Province with infrastructure, water and
sewer and the whole bit, but it all came from projects that came on stream many
years ago by different political parties. I am not saying that it was only the
Liberal Party - the former Tory Party as well. That is where the money came from
to bring us to the point where we are today, and I think that is very important.
I do not think the hon. member left it out just for the sake of leaving it out.
Hopefully, the work that this government is doing today, in years to come -
we have spoken about Hebron, the finances that will come into seeing we are
talking about the Department of Finance the money that will come from Hebron,
whether it is fifteen or eighteen years from now, will be the same thing. God
forbid if someone else should be in power here at that time and just think, for
instance, that they are the ones that brought it on stream. No, it was the
groundwork that was done today that will make all that happen.
Mr. Speaker, under the Committee of Government Services there were two
departments that I was involved in, attended the meetings, being critic for
Government Services and for Transportation and Works.
MR. O'BRIEN: Great departments.
MR. BUTLER: Great departments is true, I say to the hon. minister.
There are many questions asked when we go to those meetings. It is too bad it
is not televised, because sometimes it can get boring, I guess, like the House
of Assembly, and more people love it, but we go through the line-by-line items;
what is being spent in, say, the minister's office or various divisions of any
department, but we also go into questions on different issues that come forward
from time to time.
I remember that today we had a statement on Canada Road Safety Week. That was
one of the issues we brought up during the Estimates, in regard to the motor
registration computer system. I think it is very important, not altogether for
highway safety, but to know when something goes wrong on our highways, those
people are insured so that whoever is involved in that accident has the proper
insurance policies in place to not only protect themselves and cover the cost of
their vehicle and the other people, but also the passengers and the driver in
the vehicle that was also involved in this accident.
We know that this is a costly venture. We were told that this could cost in
the vicinity of $14 million to $20 million. It is being considered, but it is
going to take some time to implement. So, we were glad to hear that this is
still being considered, but I have to say it is a crucial issue with many
people. I can assure you, I think there are many people in this Province who are
driving around today with no insurance on their vehicles, and even though we
want safety on our highways I think that will make them all that much safer,
because if there are people out there who have no more interest in their own
public safety and having a policy or something to fall back on, I think that
something has to be dealt with.
Mr. Speaker, another issue we brought forward during the Government Services
Estimates was with regard to the winter tire safety. We know that is an issue
that has been ongoing for some time, and I did bring it up just to see what the
response would have been, but the minister stated very clearly that his mind is
not as open on it now as what it used to be at one time. He said that the
information coming in from Quebec was very slow forthcoming. I suppose we can
understand that, with our relationship with Quebec on many issues. Maybe they do
not even want to give us the information on the statistics that they have with
regard to the winter tires.
I have to say, the minister did provide us with information after the meeting
where he gave us the statistics from this study that was done here in the
Province. You take people sixty-five years of age or older; 84.6 per cent of
them have stated that they do use winter tires, and that is very encouraging. I
think people with regard to the survey also looked at people with one vehicle
or families with two vehicles. Of people who only had the one vehicle, 82 per
cent of them were driving with winter tires, and those with more than one
vehicle, some 62 per cent had winter tires on all of their vehicles; 23.7 per
cent, I think it was, just with regard to the use of one vehicle.
Again, it comes down to, and I think government is doing this, we have to
look at the main reason here, why I think this is to the point that it is
today, even though I stated many times that I believe all season tires I do
not know if there is such a thing as an all season tire, even though we do have
them by that name. I still think that for the winter conditions we have, you
have a job to beat the winter tire when it comes to certain conditions.
I explained to the minister during our Estimates a position I found myself in
this year with new all season tires and I could not go where the people went,
for safety on the road. I was going back and forth the road; I just had to pull
in and not continue on the journey. It all comes down to education and
communicating with the public, not only with the winter tire issue, which is
ongoing, but I think also with the registration computer system.
Mr. Speaker, another issue that I cannot say, I suppose, I was totally
disappointed with, but I was somewhat set back, is with regard to the ATV
regulations. This is an issue that is very important to many people throughout
this Province. I think I heard on the radio today and I do not want to state
some statistics that are incorrect but I thought I heard it said that in this
Province, and I can be corrected, there were some 400 incidents in the last
year, the last 12 month period, that involved some form of an accident with
all-terrain vehicles. I thought it was eighty or eighty-five of those accidents
happened with children who were under the legal age. That is correct; an hon.
member is saying that is correct.
Mr. Speaker, that is startling. I am not bringing up the ATV regulations just
for that reason, but in the Conception Bay North area we used to have what we
call the Run for the Janeway, where we would have an all-terrain vehicle ride
every year. We had as high as 600 and 700 bikers who would register for that
ride.
Even though we knew the regulations were there for one person on a bike, two
people were allowed on - it was a family venture. The RCMP would block the roads
for us, and I guess they knew the regulations as well. We know that certain
accidents happen throughout our Province where someone gets killed and then the
old saying goes the water changed on the beans. Everyone gets concerned about
it. The law has to step in and try to bring about changes to whatever can bring
about a safer environment for all those concerned.
I know back at that time I spoke with the minister and some of his officials.
They said that they were looking at the possibility of bringing in ATV
regulations. I know they are still looking at this. They were supposed to go and
consult with different stakeholders throughout the Province. The minister
stated, and I agree, that safety is paramount with this, but to date there is
still no legislation. With the figures that I heard today, I am just calling
upon the minister, or the government through the minister, that hopefully this
new regulation can come into play sooner rather than later. I know there is
going to be good news for people and there is going to be bad news for others
when it comes into play.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. BUTLER: Well I am glad to hear that. The minister just stated he has
50 per cent of it now so we will probably hear it we might get that
legislation put through in the fall of this year.
The other issue, Mr. Speaker, was the TODS program. It comes under two or
three different departments but it came under the Government Services for the
Estimates, as well as through the Department of Transportation. We all know that
we have been informed that it is going to take a couple of years to implement
this program - totally implement it throughout the Province.
One of the things that I find very disheartening, and we get many calls on it
from people who had their signs taken down off of the highways. Many of them, it
is true, did not have a legal permit, and I can understand that. Many of them
did have their permits and we hear stories today that those signs were taken
down as well. Like I said, I know they have the rules and regulations there.
We are trying to bring in this program because we know that it worked fairly
well in other jurisdictions. Many people have expressed concerns. I saw an
article the other day I think it was from the West Coast - the mayor of
Stephenville or Stephenville Crossing. They felt that with the signage that was
on the highways, they saw more people coming into their communities and I guess
doing more business there. They have concerns about it.
Mr. Speaker, the startling thing that I found out - I think I went to the
Government Services Estimates Committee first and learned a lot about it, but
then I went to the one for Transportation and Works. I had a gentleman call me
from the District of Trinity-Bay de Verde some time ago about all the signs that
he had, and they were not those plywood painted signs. They were the steel signs
with the lettering probably a foot or two feet high. This was the type of
business he was in. Regardless if he had them at the time, whether it was on
Crown land or on private property, I think the process that was gone through was
not appropriate. I mean those signs cost an awful lot of money for the
gentleman. Anyway, he went out this day and he probably got a notice on it, I
do not know; he probably did get a notice from somebody. Anyway, those signs
were taken from the highways and he was trying to track down his signs only to
be told - he received a call from a worker with the Department of Transportation
and said if you want to see your signs come to such-and-such a depot, they
collected them, they dug a hole and they buried them.
I think that is unfair for that process to go through. Those signs could have
been taken down, laid to one side, called the gentleman and said: Look, come and
pick up your signs because his business could have carried on. He could have put
those signs up on private property, and I think that is unfair. I have to say
the Minister of Government Services, I told him the story and he agreed that if
this gentleman wanted to call he would meet with him. Now whether he called or
not, we did call him and gave that information. It was discouraging to hear,
through the Department of Transportation, that that is what is being done with
the signs. We take them down, we destroy them or burn them rather than call the
individuals to come and get them, and they could be used again probably on
private property.
Mr. Speaker, another issue that came up that we get a lot of calls on - I
call it the review of the review because it goes back to Class 4 roads. In this
Province for many years Class 4 roads were looked after, and I know there are
different designations put on them if there are so many livyers there and what
have you. There are two roads in the district that I represent that go back to
the country - and yes, it is true there are cabin owners on them, legal cabin
owners there, two or three them live year round; the majority do not. There are
six or seven farms, various types of farms on those roads, and at one time those
roads were not graded or kept up on a yearly basis day in and day out. What
would be done when the spring of the year would come, they would send a grader
in and do the roads and again in the fall of the year. Back a few years ago,
between the Department of Transportation and the division of agriculture with
the Department of Natural Resources, they put their resources together and did
up the road so those people could go in and carry on their business. I know the
now Minister of Municipal Affairs, when she was Minister of Transportation and
Works, she agreed to do a review to see if they would take those roads back,
knowing that there were businesses that depended on them.
Mr. Speaker, that review was started. Then I was told by the minister who was
filling in for awhile that the review was being reviewed. So anyway we go to the
minister again this year, we asked about the Class 4 roads, and that process is
still being reviewed. Now, that is about two years of reviewing it, whether they
are going to take it back or not. Mr. Speaker, I have to say that is an issue
that is very important to a lot of people, not only taking people back to their
cottages far back in the country.
The other issue that comes up fairly often in my area, and I have had calls
from other districts, being the critic for Transportation, and that was the
closure of highway depots. I know it went through the appeal process, then it
went through the court here, the Newfoundland court, and now it has gone on to
the Supreme Court. I know that cannot be discussed because they are saying it is
still before the courts.
Mr. Speaker, summer maintenance on the roads in many areas yes, there is
some work being done, but the work that should be done is not being carried out
because the workers, when they come off of the winter maintenance system, many
of them are let go and they go other places working and they come back again
when the winter maintenance starts. They will tell you the workers themselves
will tell you that the work that they should be doing on the roads, whether it
is ditching, what have you, to protect the roads and keep them up to a good
standard, should be carried out more than what is being done now with regard to
the condition of the roads.
So, Mr. Speaker, there were many issues that we discussed. I will not go into
the other departments because I did not attend the Estimates meetings, but I
know, I am sure, there were issues brought forward, whether it was with regard
to the Department of Labrador Affairs, Aboriginal Affairs - my colleague
referenced Intergovernmental Affairs and the Department of Finance. I guess it
call comes down to what happens with regard to the funds that come into our
Department of Finance, the work that is being carried out.
Hopefully, through the Estimates Committee, hopefully through the few
comments I have made here today, those issues can be dealt with. They are very
important to the people, not only in my district; they are very important to the
people in each and every district that is represented here, and for the
residents of our Province.
One other issue I will touch on, I do have a minute left, and that was the
issue that came up in the Auditor General's report with regard to radiation
equipment. I have to say that the minister handled that one fairly well for us.
He came back and told us, and I am sure what he told us to be true, that this
was not a safety issue. People did have major concerns about it when it was
brought forward by the Auditor General's report, and it was more or less to make
sure that this equipment w