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April 25, 2017

41st Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2017-Apr-25 (PDF)

L071 - Tue 25 Apr 2017 / Mar 25 avr 2017

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 25 April 2017 Mardi 25 avril 2017

Medical Assistance in Dying Statute Law Amendment Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir

Introduction of Visitors

Legislative pages

Wearing of pins

Oral Questions

Government spending

Government contracts

Pharmacare

Pharmacare

Local health integration networks

Executive compensation

Housing policy

Hospital funding

Employment

Basic income

Labour dispute

Child care

Forestry industry

Northern economy

Labour dispute

Correction of record

Visitors

Notice of dissatisfaction

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Culbert’s Bakery

Health care

Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations

Anti-smoking initiatives

Dairy industry and forest industry

Grandview Children’s Centre

Highway construction

Sikh community

Daffodil Days

Visitors

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Motions

Minister of Housing

Petitions

Hospital funding

Services for the developmentally disabled

Nanjing Massacre

Government advertising

Government services

Electric vehicles

Health care

Long-term care

Lung health

Apraxia

Water extraction

Water fluoridation

Orders of the Day

Rental Fairness Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur l’équité en location immobilière

Adjournment Debate

Hospital funding

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Medical Assistance in Dying Statute Law Amendment Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir

Resuming the debate adjourned on April 24, 2017, on the motion for third reading of the following bill:

Bill 84,

An Act to amend various Acts with respect to medical assistance in dying / Projet de loi 84, Loi modifiant diverses lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): When we last debated this bill, the member from Nickel Belt had the floor and time remaining.

M me France Gélinas: Yesterday I started what is called in this House an “hour lead”; that is, the third reading of the bill allows the critic on the bill to spend an hour putting a few thoughts on the record as to the bill, medical aid in dying. I used the first part of my talk to put on the record how we came to this place, how it is that here we are on third reading with a bill that is so, so divisive to our communities, with a bill that has so many people opposed to it, with serious, serious issues about it.

Medical aid in dying is something that has been requested by people in Ontario for quite some time. It had been challenged in the Supreme Court, which ruled that it should not be considered an offence. Then the federal government did its work to make medical aid in dying a non-criminal offence so that it could be provided, under certain circumstances, to people in Ontario. Finally, two years after that, the provincial government came forward with its own protection, mainly for people who will be involved in providing that care.

The problem, Speaker, is that we knew from the start that this was something that was divisive. We knew years ago that there was a group of Ontarians who wanted to gain access to medical aid in dying, who wanted to be in charge of the last day of their lives and who wanted medical aid to end their lives. At the same time, we knew that we had a group of people who were very much opposed to anything that had to do with medical aid in dying.

What other provinces have done is create a safe place for people—certainly people at both poles, but the people in their province—to put forward ideas, to find middle ground, to find a way to give access to the people who wanted access and to protect the conscience rights of people who opposed it. They did that through collaboration. They did that through giving people an opportunity to be heard and creating safe places for those talks to take place.

In Ontario, nothing was done. The first time that people had an opportunity to be heard was after second reading debate was completed on this bill and we opened it up to deputation. We had a huge list of people who wanted to be heard on medical aid in dying. We were asked to put priorities as to who we wanted to hear; and 43 of them had a chance to come and do a deputation and tell us how to improve the bill. But people who have really never been involved in the legislative process before thought, “This is a democracy.

When my government is doing something that is important to me, I will have an opportunity to be on the record. I will have an opportunity to be heard. I will be part of this debate.” No, Speaker; for 51 of them, they stayed on the list. We never got to listen to them. They never got a chance to be heard at all. The whole process was wrong.

So what came forward is pretty much what had been put forward in the first place. I, as the critic for my party, put many amendments forward. The first amendment I put forward was to protect registered nurses, because from our experience, all those shorts in medical aid in dying have shown us that at pretty well every time medical aid in dying has been provided in Ontario, a registered nurse was there. So they asked to be named in the bill when it came time to say who will be protected, who will be immune from being brought in front of the court.

Physicians are named; if they do their job properly, you cannot bring them in front of the court. The same thing with nurse practitioners. But the ones who are there most of the time, the registered nurses, are not named.

I put an amendment forward. I’m happy to say that the Progressive Conservatives voted in favour. The Liberals voted against. The same thing when I tried to make a change to the Excellent Care for All Act, which was part of medical aid in dying, to add registered nurses—the Liberals voted that down.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: That’s terrible.

M me France Gélinas: That’s not good.

Then, when we talked about

section 13.8 in the bill, talking about immunity for health care workers, again, the Liberals voted that down. We went on to look—I’m just going through my list of motions here; sorry, Speaker. We came to this motion. That was quite something. It was a motion that was put forward by the government for a care coordination service. The motion that was put forward by the government came first, and I had a very similar motion that came second.

So my motion read that, “The minister shall establish a care coordination service to assist patients and caregivers in accessing additional information and services for medical assistance in dying and other end-of-life options.” I put this amendment forward because, Speaker, this should have been done two years ago. This care coordination service should have been in place, like it was in every other province, because on June 17, 2016, it became legal in Ontario to have medical aid in dying.

The service should have been provided, like it was in Quebec, like it was in Alberta, like it was in British Columbia, like it was in every other province and territory—but not in Ontario.

After having been voted down—all of my amendments—this went from weird to bizarre. The amendment from the government was not as well defined as my amendment. So what they did is, the Liberal government changed their amendment to be written the exact same way as my amendment had been written so that we could pass theirs. Really? Medical aid in dying: Is this really the time to play politics and say the lawyer helping the Liberal side was a better writer than the lawyer helping the NDP side? That was pathetic. But this is what happened.

The good news out of this is that we will get a care coordination service. And the care coordination service won’t be solely for accessing MAID but it will also be for other end-of-life options. Because there’s always this risk that if you don’t have access to good palliative care, you may choose medical aid in dying, but if you had access to good hospice care or if you had access to good palliative care in the setting of your choice, your options could have been different. So this will come, but it is coming too late.

On March 23, I asked the government, “Could you give me a briefing as to what the care coordination is going to look like?” Well, it’s now April 25—by the way, bonne fête, Danielle; it’s my sister’s birthday so I just thought I would throw that out there—and I still haven’t got a briefing on what the care coordination service is going to look like for medical assistance in dying.

All this to say that the lack of leadership and the lack of courage by this minister and this government to address an issue that everybody wanted them to address has led us to this awful place. This bill is going to go through; they have a majority government. The care coordination service is not there and good physicians throughout our province who were providing palliative care, who were providing good primary care, are going to cease in order to protect their conscience. It should have never come to this. We should have done way better. Shame on the Liberals.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: It’s always a pleasure to follow the member from Nickel Belt. I always enjoy her input, especially on health issues. We don’t always agree, but I know that the input that she provides always comes from a good place, especially on a bill like this, Bill 84, medical assistance in dying. It’s an issue that society has been trying to get its mind around for some time. It’s time to move ahead, Speaker.

There are a number of concerns, obviously, that need to be addressed as you’re moving through this process, and there are a number of people who play a major role in that. You’ve got the person themselves, perhaps, who is facing the end of their life and wants to have the dignity and the respect that comes along with making some decisions of their own in that regard. You’ve got our health care professionals, who are also the people who actually provide us with that care and whose natural instinct is to keep us alive, is to prolong life, is to make us better. That’s what we rely on them for.

Certainly when you have an issue like this that comes up, then a much different perspective is given on this. You’ve got the family members as well, who are going through—when a person is facing these types of decisions, they certainly lean on the family; it becomes more and more important. So a piece of legislation needs to take into account the perspectives of all three on this.

I think as this bill has moved through, some of the things we’ve seen addressed have been as a result of people who have brought forward their concerns to us along the way—some of the vulnerable populations, perhaps. The health care professionals need protection as well, both from a civil liability perspective and also from a perspective of their own personal conscience. I think we’ve accomplished that in Bill 84 to date.

I look forward to this continuing its way through the House and to its eventual passage because it’s just a piece of legislation whose time has come.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Steve Clark: I want to thank the member for Nickel Belt for her speech yesterday and this morning. I also want to thank her for her work in committee. I was in committee during clause-by-clause debate of Bill 84 on behalf of our critic, Mr. Yurek, and I actually have all the amendments that we tabled that the government voted down.

Mr. John Yakabuski: How many did they adopt?

Mr. Steve Clark: The government voted down all of our amendments.

I made it very clear during second reading debate. I was the first opposition member to provide two-minute questions and comments when the member for Ottawa South, the parliamentary assistant, finished his maiden speech. I was the first MPP to make comments after the Minister of Health made his speech. I made it very clear, from this side of the House, that we wanted to see some amendments that dealt with conscience rights.

Our amendments, in some cases, took wordings from other jurisdictions that have successfully protected the conscience rights of health care providers without affecting patient access. Again, this government refused every single time we tabled one of those amendments. They refused to ensure that objecting doctors won’t be forced to participate by providing an effective referral.

The one thing that I know that the member for Nickel Belt heard at committee was that there were a number of doctors who spoke to committee who said that they would be forced to stop treating palliative patients, and may even leave the profession, because of this situation, because of the fact that the government would not protect their conscience rights.

Our amendments included immunity on MAID and participation in MAID being voluntary. There were so many amendments that we put in there that we had hoped that this government would take into consideration the feelings of many in the medical community. They voted against every single one.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: I too want to commend the member from Nickel Belt. She comes at this through a wide range of directions and a lot of information. Those points and all the amendments that our caucus brought forward—and I know that she worked tirelessly at committee bringing these issues forward—unfortunately went unanswered.

There were no accommodations. There was no open dialogue, and on something as important as this, there should have been opportunity there for dialogue. Why is it that in all other territories, in all other provinces, we have a care coordination service? Why can’t we take that step? Why can’t we recognize that that possibly might ease a lot of the concerns, the barriers, the walls for all who are in here? We’ve heard our doctors, our nurse practitioners. Why can’t we have that dialogue? Why can’t we sit down and say, “It’s the right thing to do”?

Mr. Speaker, this is such a personal decision that one makes. I have a constituent in my riding who has talked to me about this decision that he wants to make or will make one of these days. He’s not ready now, but he wants to have the right to make that decision. He needs to know that there is going to be an avenue, a resource that will actually listen to him. He’s had an excellent relationship with the health care professionals that have been treating him, but because of what is lacking in this bill, he may be hit with a wall, something that he certainly doesn’t deserve.

Again, making this decision is a personal one, but it involves your family, it involves your practitioners, it involves your doctors and it involves a huge decision that you’re making. Building these walls is certainly not what this government should have done.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments? The Minister on the Status of Women and also responsible for early years and child care—that’s a mouthful.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: Thank you, Speaker. I’m pleased to rise today to speak to Bill 84. Our government has introduced this legislation that, if passed, would support the implementation of medical assistance in dying by providing more protection and greater clarity for patients, their families and their health care providers.

No question this is a very sensitive issue, but it is an issue that communities and residents of our province and around our country have been grappling with for years. This new legislation absolutely brings clarity to this space and ensures a safe and consistent approach for physician-assisted dying across the country and here in our province. After all, we realize that end-of-life care is an important and complex issue. We’re committed to a respectful patient-centred approach that supports patient choice while protecting the vulnerable.

We have an obligation, an obligation to our professional health care workers and institutions, with regard to striking the right balance for our vulnerable, and that’s absolutely what we’re trying to do.

So this new legislation ensures safe and consistent approaches for physicians. It also ensures benefits when it comes to workplace safety benefits. Health care professionals and those who assist them are protected from civil liability when lawfully providing medical assistance in dying. Health care providers and facilities that provide medical assistance in dying have their privacy protected. This is about bringing clarity to the space.

I would like to address the issue of consultations that was brought up by one of the members opposite. Absolutely, our Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care conducted biweekly webinars with large and diverse groups of stakeholders, including health care system leaders, professionals, sector organizations and patient advocates. We held town halls. We reached out to our stakeholders to get their input over a year, between the summer of 2015 and winter of 2016. So we’ve tried to do our due diligence.

Really, this is about striking the right balance when providing care to our vulnerable and patients in Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): For final comments, we refer back to the member from Nickel Belt.

M me France Gélinas: Certainly, I would like to thank the Minister of Labour, the member from Leeds–Grenville, my colleague from Algoma–Manitoulin, as well as the Minister of the Status of Women, early years and child care.

The job was to make sure that people who wanted access have the right to access, that vulnerable people would be protected, and that people with conscience objections would have their conscience rights respected. We failed on all three. What we have in place right now is a 1-800 number. If you come from the northeast, there are zero providers that have put their names forward. That means that if you come from northeastern Ontario, it doesn’t matter how able and willing your family’s physician or nurse practitioner is, you will not be able to get two independent assessments to decide if you meet the criteria and you will not be able to get medical assistance in dying.

If we look at the other side, where people wanted their conscience rights respected, we failed on that also. It didn’t have to be that way. We saw this coming. The government should have taken the leadership to make sure, during those three years that this debate was going on, leading to the decriminalization on June 17, 2016, that a care coordination service should have been in place that day.

And the care coordination service should have put in place what is being developed patchworkly through Ontario right now, so that every area of Ontario had a MAID team that people could phone to gain access, people could phone to learn about end-of-life issues, and that people who have objections to this could be protected because they wouldn’t have to get involved, because it would already be there like it is in Alberta and like it is anywhere else. We failed.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Speaker, I’m pleased to join this debate this morning. This is really one of the most sensitive issues we’ve ever had to debate in this chamber. Depending upon your perspective and the issue at hand, the world either moves too slow or just moves too fast. For some people on this issue, they’ll say the world has moved too slow. But a lot of people in this province and across this country believe that the world has moved too fast on so many of these issues.

Not that many years ago, if someone was involved in an assisted suicide—we can call it what it was called at that time—they were subject to criminal charges up to and including a murder charge. Today, we’re bringing in legislation that talks about medical assistance in dying.

So you have to put yourself into the body and the frame and the mind of those people, and also those people who believed absolutely, at the very extreme, that assisted suicide was murder, or at the very least was wrong and criminal. Now they’re living in a world where the courts have decided that you, as an individual, have the right to seek medical assistance in ending your own life and it is not subject to a criminal charge; in fact, no charges of any kind would be resulting from it.

So for those people who at the very core of their beliefs, whether it be on religious grounds or their own morality and their own ethics or whatever, it is heart-wrenching for them to live in a world where something that society in its laws said was wrong not that long ago—and still many people in society would believe that. Now that society has decided through its courts, and now that the federal government has tabled the legislation and we, as a province, are bound to table legislation that coordinates with the federal law—we’re now here in a situation where those people are living in a different world than they believed existed.

So what do we do to recognize them? One of the things that we could have done on this divisive issue is ensure that any medical practitioner would not be forced—because those people could also be doctors. They could be nurse practitioners. They could be registered nurses. They could be someone involved in the medical field. Why do we feel it is necessary—when they became a doctor or a nurse practitioner or a nurse, the law was different.

They didn’t sign on going in saying, “I recognize that the law will require me to participate in a medically assisted death.” Their conscience rights now have been frittered away, have been taken away, because they are now bound by this law to be participatory in a medically assisted death. Put yourself in those shoes and ask yourself if you could possibly believe that this law, as it is drafted, is in any way, shape or form fair to you at the core. It is not.

How do we accommodate these people? How do we understand that they have the same rights as everybody else? Well, we could have brought into this law the conscience rights. In the second reading debate—and you will recall, Speaker, that our party supported this bill on second reading—every bit of response I received from the government side in the second reading debate indicated to me—maybe not absolutely but certainly in a tacit way—that they were going to deal with the conscience rights issue.

Every time I spoke about it, and when my colleagues spoke about it, I saw nods from the parliamentary assistant to health, I saw nods from the Minister of Health, indicating that they recognized that that was missing from the bill as it existed and there was an intent that it was going to be dealt with and taken care of.

During that clause-by-clause—after the deputations, of which we heard from more than a few about the importance of conscience rights—my colleague from Leeds–Grenville, Mr. Clark, sat in there as our representative and brought forth reasoned amendments that would have ensured that the conscience rights of those people who felt that they could not be part of this would be respected. This government decided that wouldn’t be done.

Speaker, I think of my mother, who has been gone for over 40 years, but she was very strong in her religious beliefs. This would be something that would pain her deeply—would pain her deeply. First of all, she would be one of those people who would say that this is wrong. She was also a loyal Canadian and she would respect that the law of the land has indicated otherwise, but she would be livid if she felt that someone in the practice of medicine would not be allowed to be exempted for their personal beliefs. I’m not talking about something that you adopt for the sake of convenience; I’m talking about something, as I have said, that identifies you to the core of who you are.

We also asked, in amendment 11 that my colleague brought forward, that a care coordination service would support patient access to medical assistance in dying and other end-of-life options in Ontario. You see, that care coordination service would have acted, for lack of a better term, as a triage or a clearing house, so to speak, where people would go, where people could let it be known that they had made a decision, in conjunction with their family and perhaps their own closest people, that they wanted to legally end their life and they wanted assistance in doing so.

That service could have referred them to people who were comfortable in providing that service and, therefore, not involve a physician or nurse practitioner or someone else who did not feel that they could participate. The government did not adopt that amendment. They did amend to bring in a quasi-care coordination service, but it doesn’t conduct itself in that way. It doesn’t provide that service. It still requires those who have conscience beliefs where they cannot participate, it requires them to participate.

I remember when I was speaking in the debate earlier and I talked about how in 1962 we had our last hanging in our country, and at that time probably 95% of the population believed in capital punishment for certain crimes. It was only in—I’m not exactly sure when, but maybe in the late seventies when we actually banned capital punishment for good. But we would have had to have an executioner on standby or at least in the employ of the government to be able to provide that service if it was required. We wouldn’t have taken somebody from the general law enforcement population and said, “You’re the hangman.

If we have a situation where someone is going to be executed, you’re going to have to do it.” No. We would not have done that because we would have understood that that person had certain beliefs. Just because someone believes in capital punishment, or believed in it at that time, does not mean that they would ever have the capability of pulling the lever on those gallows. We would have made sure that that person was comfortable in themselves that they could be the one.

Today, if you’re in the medical profession, apparently this government doesn’t care how you feel. Even though you came into the medical profession long before this was legal, you will have to participate and you will have to play your role. I believe that is wrong and I think a lot of people in this province believe that it is wrong. The government had ample opportunity to adopt these conscience rights in their bill.

We talked about and we read where, because we’ve had—I don’t remember the exact number but it’s well in the hundreds, might be well in the thousands—medically assisted deaths already since the law was adopted. It’s already happening in absence of Bill 84. I have read that there are doctors who volunteered that they would be participants in medically assisted deaths and they believed that they could do this and they would be comfortable enough in doing it.

Then, after having actually participated in part of it, the conflict and the torment that they went through within themselves that they have now said, “I’m sorry, but I can no longer do this.” That’s not hard to understand. After having been part of the act, they’ve reflected on their role and they may have reflected on an awful lot of other things in a really big way and the big picture about their own life, and perhaps their own eternal life. They have decided that they can no longer be part of this.

If someone who said, “I’ll be part of this, I’ll participate, I will join the group of people that provide this service for those who want it under the law,” for someone like that to say, “I can no longer do this,” just think of the emotion that they had to go through to come to that kind of conclusion. If this issue can have that kind of effect on them, how can we not recognize the effect that it has on someone who never believed in it in the first place? How can we ignore those human beings?

We talk here in this chamber about having compassion for everyone and recognizing that we all have our inner conscience, and then when we have an opportunity to recognize one’s conscience in a very, very clear way, we deny them that right. We deny them that right to live by their conscience.

I recognize the point made by the member from Nickel Belt about the access in certain areas of the province, because medical access of many kinds is challenged in our most remote areas. We understand that. But the conscience rights doesn’t affect if the service isn’t available, period, because of lack of services in the area.

I am confident that if someone comes to the conclusion, along with their loved ones and their closest, that they make this choice to end their life by medical assistance, that the services are there—with those exceptions, and I understand, but that’s not just this service and we want to be clear about that. Those services will be there and there will be more than enough practitioners who are willing and able to provide that service.

Why do we have to force people to do something that they believe is wrong? Why do we do that? Why do we do the very thing that makes them question themselves? And there—whether they can live with themselves—why would we not allow those people to live within their own morality, within their own deeply held beliefs? Why do we have to force them to do something that, categorically, they believe to be wrong, not only from an ethical point of view but, for many of them, from a sinful point of view? Why do we do that?

We have an opportunity to recognize everyone’s rights. We can recognize those people who have decided, “This is the way it’s going to end for me.” I understand that. I hope I’m never faced personally with that decision. I hope it happens to me quickly in my sleep in the middle of a good dream and I don’t suffer and I don’t have any terminal illnesses and life is just going along wonderfully till that day that I’m called. But I don’t get to make that choice. I don’t know what my health is going to be like today, tomorrow, the next day or whenever. I can’t picture the future, but some people are living in that future today, and if they make those choices, I understand that.

I don’t have any children involved in the medical profession. Our grandchildren are still so young that they have no profession other than they like toys and playing and bouncing on grampa’s knee when he has the opportunity. They are that future. They are the legacy for all of us. Maybe one—we have nine today and, I hope, more on the way—not right now. Like, not this day, but I’m sure there will be more. I hope there will be more.

But if one of those chooses to be a member of the medical profession, either a physician or a nurse practitioner or a nurse—and I can’t presume what their personal beliefs will be at that time—but if their personal beliefs are such that they do not feel that they can be right within themselves or within their God that they can participate in this, then I would hope that they would not be forced to do something that is so much against their will.

I was very hopeful that the government, based on their responses to us, their body language and such, was going to bring in a real, definitive, clear, protective clause to respect conscience rights. Whatever their motive, I’m not even going to go there or question, but I believe that the decision at the end of the day was wrong and therefore, I cannot support this bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m very glad to be able to rise in this House and to add my thoughts on what is such an important bill. Here we are again, continuing the conversation about medical assistance in dying. It has been a long journey in this Legislature. I don’t know about a long journey to get here overall; as the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke said, this is a conversation that some would say is happening too quickly and others would say has been a long time coming and has been too slow. But here we are, and as we’ve heard from around the room, it’s a very dividing conversation.

I would like to commend him for his very passionate remarks. I think that as he is sharing what he’s hearing in his communities, as are we all, we need to be respectful of all the voices we’ve heard. I understand that at the committee process they heard very emotional comments, very personal and important comments, and we’ve heard that this bill, now here in third reading, does not reflect what it ought to. When we’re talking about access and the balance with conscience rights, Speaker, it sounds like we’ve gotten it wrong with all of the different people at the table.

As my colleague from Nickel Belt has said, this could have been done more carefully and come out with the right way forward—and that is not what we have, which is disappointing.

So, Speaker, I know that—sorry. I was just doing a count, making sure that we had enough people to respectfully continue the conversation; it would seem that we do. But, Speaker, as the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke said, anyone involved in this process needs to be comfortable in themselves, and we need to support those individuals. That needs to be a conversation going forward.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Hon. Chris Ballard: This is certainly one of the tougher issues we’ve dealt with in my short time in the House. It’s always easy to be able to sit back when you’re not in a position of making these types of decisions and be the armchair quarterback. But when you’re actually here and you actually have to vote on something, and you’ve been out listening to what your community has to say about such an important issue as Bill 84, it really gives you pause to think and consider all the ramifications. I think it’s so important to have heard what the members opposite have had to say, and I certainly respect their perspective and whatever struggles they and their community are going through.

I certainly can say, Speaker, that we realize that end-of-life care is a very important and very complex issue. With that in mind, we have been committed to developing a respectful, patient-centred approach that supports patient choice while protecting the vulnerable. The legislation helps to ensure a safe and consistent approach to physician-assisted dying across the country. We have an obligation to our professional health care workers and institutions with regard to striking that balance.

I can say that we have no intention of requiring any clinician who is opposed to medical assistance in dying to participate in providing it. But, Speaker, it’s expected that all provide the same level of care as they do with existing health care services when providing patients with medical-assistance-in-dying-related services.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions or comments?

Mr. Steve Clark: I’m pleased to provide some more comment on third reading debate of Bill 84. I want to thank my colleague from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke for his very thoughtful comments. I’m sure it’s no surprise to members of the House that I agree with what he said 100%. In fact, there were a couple of government members who actually came over and shook his hand, too. So I think there’s widespread support for what he put on the record today.

As I said in committee, we tabled a number of amendments. I actually have all of them here that we tried to put forward in committee that would allow for conscience rights for health care providers without affecting patient care. I think it was very important right from the start for us to have that conversation. I wish that we had been able to convince the government to move forward.

There are ways that we can move forward and add conscience rights to this bill. I know that in second reading debate I talked about the fact that I felt that if the government wasn’t prepared to put those measures in Bill 84, we should table a private member’s bill and see if we could get all-party support. I hope that our critic, who has said in the past that he would do that, does move forward with that bill.

There are other measures we can do, and I have the amendments here. I’m prepared to ask for unanimous consent that we move into Committee of the Whole House and deal with Bill 84 and do those amendments right now. I’d be interested in having a consensus of the House to move forward in that manner.

I ask for unanimous consent to move into Committee of the Whole House to deal with the PC amendments on Bill 84.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Is there unanimous consent to deal with the—I heard a no.

Further questions and comments?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I probably can say that this is one of the most prevalent bills that has come before the Legislature since I have had the honour of being the MPP for London–Fanshawe, and also the most divisive bill, I think, that has come forward, because of the topic. The topic that we’re talking about is something that we’re all going to have to deal with, and I think we need to deal with it through legislation so that when people come to that stage in their life, there is that comfort and understanding of what the responsibilities are of professionals to their patients and what services the patients can access if they choose that decision.

When I heard the member from Nickel Belt today talking about that there’s still not a care coordination service program in place under this bill, I had to get the bill to believe it. I was in committee; I took the opportunity to sit in committee when I could through my

schedule to hear the presentations and the deputations from both sides, and it was clear that this needed to happen. The government failed in doing that.

This is what the explanatory note says: “The minister is required to establish a care coordination service to assist patients and caregivers in accessing additional information and services for medical assistance in dying and other end-of-life options.”

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Yes.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I respect the member from London North Centre; she’s here for this debate.

With all due respect, this is such important and necessary legislation that the hearings, the research and the discussions should have been done for this consideration under conscience objection.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): For final comments, I return to the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I want to thank the member from Oshawa, the Minister of Housing, the member from Leeds–Grenville and the member from London–Fanshawe for their comments. Obviously it is a divisive issue because everyone keeps commenting on that.

The member from London–Fanshawe pointed out something that is obvious: We are all going to die. We don’t know when, but we are all going to die, and we have a wonderful option available to people. We’ve invested an awful lot in this province in our hospice care facilities, which give people the option of having compassionate care in an absolutely wonderful way. I’m quite aware of the care that is offered in my riding at Hospice Renfrew, and also beds in Barry’s Bay, as well. I’m afraid that we’re almost saying to people, “Here’s a better option.”

You see, when people go to hospice they go to hospice knowing that the end is coming, possibly soon, but they want to be in the hands of a caring, compassionate group of people who want to assist them in making that transition and that journey as comfortable as possible. So what are we saying to those people? We’re saying there is another option, I understand that, but it’s almost like we’re pushing people into a different decision. I hope that we are not going to be going out now and promoting this as a way of saving money in our health care system or in our hospice system.

The decision not to have conscience rights was wrong. I stand by that.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. Randy Hillier: It’s a pleasure to speak to Bill 84 this morning. I spoke to Bill 84 at second reading. I know a number of my colleagues on this side of the House offered up a number of suggestions and arguments at second reading debate for the government to consider and to encourage them to have an open mind, to improve the bill and listen to people in a manner that would permit the bill to be improved upon.

Unfortunately, committee has come and passed, and the amendments and our words of encouragement requesting the government to consider other alternatives to improve medical assistance in dying have gone unheeded. All the opposition amendments have been voted down by the government.

In principle, the Progressive Conservative Party supports the bill. That’s why we voted in favour of it at second reading to go to committee. In principle, it’s an important bill, but we did have an expectation that the committee process would indeed be allowed and permitted to operate, to flesh out good and better ideas, to hear from interested people, and to use that process to improve the bill.

This is not a bill that should be used in a partisan fashion. It should not be advanced only for political or partisan gain. It should be done in the public interest. We’re talking about assisting people at the end of their life. There ought not to be anything partisan or political about it. Unfortunately, opposition amendments were all voted down along partisan lines.

During second reading debate, I commented during debate about how respectful the discussion and the debate had been thus far on Bill 84, on the compassion, the sincerity and the interests of all members to work towards a most appropriate legislative framework to assist people at the end of their life’s journey. I was struck by how thoughtful the discussion had been during second reading debate.

I recall, at the time I said, “If only we could have this level of discussion and quality of debate when it came to medical assistance in living, how grand that would be if we put the public interest forward and worked towards medical assistance in living as well as in death.” Some of these things have been exposed and have been talked about today in this House and during committee.

But there were others. One of our strong positions on Bill 84 was to protect the conscientious objectors in the health care practices: physicians, nurses—all those professional health care providers. They have shown us and they have told us that there needs to be protection for conscientious objection, for those people who find it morally objectionable to provide assistance in death—that this legislation ought to protect their desire not to participate or assist in the death of an individual.

Our country recognizes that fundamental freedom in our charter. There are some grey areas, but we recognize that we ought never to impose on someone an obligation that is morally objectionable to them on matters of faith or conviction; our legislation must protect one’s moral compass, not skew it.

That was one of our many amendments that were voted down by this Liberal government. They would not protect that conscientious objection from a health care professional. I find that reprehensible, Speaker—reprehensible that a Liberal government would not protect the fundamental freedoms of our health care professionals and would compel them to be engaged and involved in a practice that is against their deeply held moral convictions or faith.

I should read a number of those amendments into the House just so all members understand what their party did on their behalf during the committee process. Here’s an amendment. It was a PC motion, and it was under

section 13.10 of the bill. It starts off by saying:

“Participation in MAID”—medical assistance in dying—“voluntary

“13.10(1) Participation in medical assistance in dying shall be voluntary. A person may refuse to do something that is for the purpose of medical assistance in dying. This includes refusing to,” and it lists a number of items.

Can we imagine that this government refused—refused—they voted down this amendment on voluntary assistance in medical assistance in dying. They’re imposing their view upon the convictions and faith of health care professionals without any regard for those individuals—no regard for those individuals. Is that really the stock-in-trade and hallmark of a Liberal government, to impose their view on what shall be done? I think the Liberal government has strayed far—strayed very far—from the tenets and principles of liberalism, Speaker, when they refuse to protect the individual freedoms and convictions of individuals in society.

Again, there is a host of these amendments, Speaker. I will speak to some of them because I would like, in the questions and comments that follow my debate, the members present on the opposite side to provide me and my colleagues, the opposition members, with some rationale for why they have done what they’ve done in committee. You know, that’s what debate is. Debate is a ventilation and a scrutiny of the decisions made by this House. I think it’s important that the members opposite explain to me, explain to society, explain to all of us why they have strayed so far from their fundamental purposes and principles.

Here’s another PC motion, under

section 7 of the bill:

“Medical assistance in dying

“29.2(1) Member participation in medical assistance in dying shall be voluntary.”

It “shall be voluntary.” Speaker, why would the Liberal government and their members on that committee strike down such amendments? Why would they vote down these concepts that participation in medical assistance in dying shall be voluntary?

I notice the minister across looking puzzled. You know, this is on the record. Your government, your colleagues, voted these things down in committee on your behalf. It’s important for you to know what your party is doing in your name. If these actions are not consistent with your convictions, with your principles, then there’s a duty and an obligation to speak out and express yourself.

Once again, we’re seeing that this government did not hear our pleas during second reading. They did not hear the sound requests and arguments put forth by so many people who came to the committee hearings. These amendments that were put forward were not amendments that we found in the hallway. These amendments were based on those discussions in committee. These amendments were based on listening and hearing from people who will be impacted by this legislation.

We will all be impacted in some ways, but many people will be impacted very directly by this, so we do have an obligation to listen attentively and with interest and with compassion about those people who will be impacted directly by our legislation, Speaker.

When we develop public policy, it has to be in the public interest with regard for those people who will be impacted directly. The government has failed in this regard, failed in this process on Bill 84. They have allowed and permitted their partisanship to impede, prevent and obstruct the development of good public policy in the public interest for some partisan interests. It’s unfortunate. As I started out at the beginning, this bill, amongst very few bills, by any objective measure, ought not to be partisan, right? Medical assistance in dying is too important a bill to be skewed and distorted with partisanship.

My colleague from Leeds–Grenville put forward a motion without notice seeking unanimous consent that the House resolve into a Committee of the Whole to discuss these amendments that were struck down in committee. I think it was a valid and appropriate undertaking by the member from Leeds–Grenville. I would hope that the members opposite recognize and understand the importance of protecting freedoms of conscience, freedoms of protecting and upholding those deeply held convictions and assisting those who have moral objections to participating in someone’s death.

I think resolving into a Committee of the Whole to discuss this is an appropriate function. Maybe the members here in the House this morning are not suitably prepared to engage in that discussion and debate on the opposite side. We only have a few more minutes before adjournment of the session. I would suggest that we adopt that idea and in the interlude between adjournment of the morning session and after routine proceedings this afternoon, the Liberal members could be adequately prepared to engage in this debate.

So, Speaker, I will ask to move and seek unanimous consent that this House resolve into a Committee of the Whole to examine and evaluate the amendments to Bill 84.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): The House has already made a decision on that particular motion, so unfortunately I have to deny the motion.

Third reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): It is now close to 10:15. This House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Bill Walker: I’d like to welcome everyone here from the Canadian Cancer Society, with a particular interest and welcome to Raghda Salim, Melanie Wong and Zier Zhou, who are youth members and volunteers; and Lera Ryan from the great riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, who is a stellar, stellar advocate.

Mr. John Vanthof: I have some very special guests today. I have Ellen White from Barrie; her grandson Carter Mitchell, from Barrie; Captain Todd D’Andrade, who has been a proud member of our military since 1983; and Allison Downie, Will Downie and Josephine Downie from Tasmania, Australia. I’d like to welcome them to our great province.

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: Today I would like to welcome two constituents to Queen’s Park from my riding of Barrie: Kris Bonn, who is here today with the Ontario Trial Lawyers Association; and Lily Chen, who’s here with the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers.

Also, guests of page Gabriel Kotch: His aunt Lorna McBrien and uncle Ed McBrien are in the public gallery this morning. Welcome.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I would like to welcome the Ontario Trial Lawyers Association to Queen’s Park today: Adam Wagman, president; Claire Wilkinson, president-elect; Ron Bohm, vice-president; Linda Langston, CEO; and John Karapita, director of public affairs. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Michael Mantha: I would like to welcome my good friend Patrick Sackville from the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. They are here for their lobby day and are welcoming everybody at their reception tonight in rooms 228 and 230.

Hon. Reza Moridi: On behalf of MPP Delaney and MPP Kiwala, it is my great pleasure to welcome Mr. Erdeniz Sen, consul general of Turkey; and Ms. Yildiz Unsal and Dr. Mehmet Bor. Please join me in welcoming them.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: I would like to introduce one of my constituents, Val Davidson, a member of the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. She is here today in the Legislature. Welcome.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: We have a great number of young people up today from the Windsor area for the Canadian Cancer Society breakfast. I’d like to welcome Kelly Rosaasen; her daughter, Alysha Rosaasen; Shannon Mcneil; Christina Zhang; Ali Menaidli; John Talia; Samantha Girard; Kamal Mann; Taven Mann; Regina Yuen; and Rakhshan Kamran. Welcome to Queen’s Park, and thank you for what you do with the Canadian Cancer Society.

Mr. Harinder S. Takhar: I want to welcome the grade 12 class from St. Aloysius Gonzaga Secondary School from my riding of Mississauga–Erindale to the Legislature today. I also want to welcome their teacher, Ms. Quesnelle, as well.

Mr. Lorne Coe: I’m pleased to introduce Mehemed Delibasic, who is here with the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I would like to welcome four amazing young people who are here today from Youth CAN in London, advocating on behalf of the Canadian Cancer Society: Elisa Moglan, Julia Mroz, Ashfar Bashar and Tunya Langsub. Welcome.

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I would like to extend a warm welcome to Jamuna Yoganathan from my riding of Kingston and the Islands, who’s a new graduate from Queen’s University.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have a very large number of introductions, so let’s just keep it quick and brief, please.

Mr. Michael Harris: I’d like to welcome Jerome James from the professional engineers. Welcome.

M me France Gélinas: I too want to thank the members from the Canadian Cancer Society who are here today, especially Kelly Gorman and Joanne Di Nardo. Thank you for all you do for the cancer society.

Hon. Jeff Leal: I’d like to welcome Mark Donohue, Alison Payne and Kendra Willis from the Peterborough branch of the Canadian Cancer Society.

Mr. Raymond Sung Joon Cho: I rise to welcome Andrew Toye Ojo from my riding of Scarborough–Rouge River. Andrew is here with the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers as part of their Queen’s Park lobby day, where they are presenting groundbreaking original research on the engineering challenges facing Ontario storm water management systems.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I would like to introduce Ahmad Gaied, executive vice-president of the OFL, and Thevaki Thevaratnam, a researcher at the OFL, who are joining us here today, as well as Mr. John Karapita from the Ontario Trial Lawyers Association.

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: I’m pleased to welcome Ninder Thind from my great riding of Mississauga–Brampton South. She is the mother of page Gurjaap Brar. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I would like to welcome to the House today Roger Martin, the manager of the Canadian Cancer Society in Renfrew county.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I am delighted to welcome the mother of page Eesha Rehan. Her mother is in the gallery today: Nazish Malik. Welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: From London, members of the Trial Lawyers Association: Alfonso Campos, Maia Bent and Maciek Piekosz.

Also, Speaker, from Qatar, we have a delegation. I will leave the introduction to you for the—

Interjection.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Yes, sir. But I would also like to introduce from the delegation Ahmed Al-Hammadi, Mohammed Al-Sowaidi, Abdulrahman Al-Mutawa and Bashir Kalisa, Speaker, and there are more coming, I know, from you.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): That’s another way around it.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I would like to introduce the guests of page John-Stanley Black: his mother, Jennifer Black, and his sisters Amiera and Sadie Black.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I also want to welcome the delegation from the Ontario Trial Lawyers Association. Please welcome Adam Wagman, president; Claire Wilkinson, president-elect; Ron Bohm, vice-president; Linda Langston, CEO; and John Karapita, director of public affairs.

They’re hosting a reception in the dining room from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. tonight.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: I would like to introduce in the gallery today Tim Schindel; Hannah Putz, originally from Mississauga, now in Rochester, USA; Jane Parent; Jill Morris; Grace Carrothers; and Annita and Derk Maat from Oakville.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’d like to welcome Alfonso Campos Reales, who is here today from London with the Ontario Trial Lawyers Association.

Mr. Joe Dickson: I’m pleased to welcome in the Legislature this morning Nedenia Rocha. She is the mother of Pickering page Charlene Rocha. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Bill Walker: I’d like to introduce Pat Sackville and Arjan Arenja from Professional Engineers Ontario.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I would like to welcome from my constituency Arthur Sinclair, from the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, who are here as part of their lobby day. They have a reception in rooms 228 and 230.

As well, guests of my page, Kaitlin Grierson, from Toronto Centre: her mother, Catharine Ann Matthews, and her father, David Harry Grierson.

Mr. Toby Barrett: I’d like to introduce Dave Schneider from the Canadian Cancer Society and a member of the NPDPR.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Please help me welcome Christina Visser from Sudbury, who is here with the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers.

Mr. Jim McDonell: Please welcome Sandro Perruzza, the CEO of the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, whose members from across the province are visiting us today. There is a reception I will be hosting in rooms 228 and 230 later on today.

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: J’aimerais accueillir Michael Monette d’Ottawa, qui est le président and the chair of the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I rise to welcome two people, John Severino and Lindsay Keats, both from my riding of Nipissing. They’re here with the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers.

Mr. James J. Bradley: I would like to welcome Mary Ransom, from the Canadian Cancer Society of Niagara, who is with us today at the Legislature.

L’hon. Marie-France Lalonde: Hier, nous avons célébré six récipiendaires de l’Ordre de la Pléiade. C’est avec beaucoup d’honneur qu’un des résidents d’Ottawa–Orléans l’a reçu. Marcel Gibeault et son épouse, Claudette, sont ici avec nous. Bienvenue à l’Assemblée législative de l’Ontario.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: Good morning, Speaker. Our page captain today is Matthew Harris from the great riding of Davenport. He’s joined here today by some very special guests: His mother, Angela Van Damme; his father, Chris Harris; and his grandmother Margaret Flynn. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: I’d like to welcome lawyer Kris Bonn from Bonn Law service in Trenton. Welcome.

Mr. Yvan Baker: I’d just like to welcome Marilyn Spink and Jamie Gerson who are here from the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers and constituents of mine in Etobicoke Centre. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Reza Moridi: Please join me in welcoming Vam Thurairajah and Akan Thurairajah, parents of page captain Rishi Thurairajah.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: I have another guest from my riding of Davenport, Marina Freire-Gormaly, who is here with my good friend Sandro Perruzza. They’re here today with the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. Welcome.

Mr. Yvan Baker: I’d like to welcome the guests of page Kate Winterton: Her mother, Jennifer Krikorian; and aunt Jacqueline Krikorian. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri: I’d like to welcome and say es salaam aleikum to the ISNA Islamic Schools from Mississauga.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): With us today in the Speaker’s gallery we have two delegations. From the Parliament of the Czech Republic, the parliamentary Committee on Science, Education, Culture, Youth and Sport led by deputy Jiří Zlatuška. He is accompanied by His Excellency Pavel Hrnčíř, the ambassador of the Czech Republic to Canada. Welcome to your delegation. Thank you for joining us.

Also in the Speaker’s gallery, we do have a delegation from the State of Qatar led by Minister of State Sheikh Abdulla Bin Mohammed Bin Saud Al-Thani, accompanied by the ambassador of Qatar to Canada, His Excellency Fahad Kafoud. Thank you. Welcome. We’re glad you’re with us today.

Legislative pages

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Also, as you know is the tradition, we like to introduce new pages. If I could get them to assemble, please.

By the way, while they’re assembling, if there is anyone who was not introduced today, just raise your hand. Welcome. We’re glad you’re with us.

Charlene Rocha from Ajax–Pickering; Claire Le Donne from Hamilton Mountain; Eesha Rehan from London–Fanshawe; Emma Yu from Parkdale–High Park; Gabriel Kotch from Barrie; Gurjaap Brar from Mississauga–Brampton South; Hayden Cox from Scarborough Southwest; Iman Chowdhury from Scarborough Centre; Jeremi Kolakowski from Willowdale; John-Stanley Black from Perth–Wellington; Kaitlin Grierson from Toronto Centre; Kate Winterton from Etobicoke Centre; Kenna Smallegange from Halton; Maddison Rose from Essex; Madeleine Alexander from St.

Catharines; Margaret Yurek from Elgin–Middlesex–London; Matt Harris from Davenport; Matthew Howell from Nepean–Carleton; Noah Hatton from Brampton West; Peter Schneider from Brampton–Springdale; Radana Biaroza from Northumberland–Quinte West; Rishikan Thurairajah from Richmond Hill; and Sofija Bulatovic from York Centre.

These are our pages for this session.

Applause.

Wearing of pins

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Point of order, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Point of order, the government House leader.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I believe you will find that we have unanimous consent that all members be permitted to wear daffodil pins in recognition of the Canadian Cancer Society’s Daffodil Month.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m glad to see the enthusiasm of some people who have covered it up before we do the unanimous consent.

The government House leader is seeking unanimous consent to wear the daffodil pins. Do we agree? Agreed. Now you may wear them.

I thank you for that. Therefore, it is now time for question period.

Oral Questions

Government spending

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. Yesterday, a minister of the crown made a $150-million announcement. That’s no small amount of money. What was the minister’s response when she was asked where the money was coming from? She said—this is a direct quote: “I’m actually not quite sure where it’s coming from.” Can you believe that, Mr. Speaker? She actually said she had no idea where the funds were coming from.

Can the Premier tell us where the money is coming from for that announcement?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: First of all, let me make a shout-out to the Minister of Community and Social Services and the Minister of Housing for the announcement yesterday. The idea of a basic income has been around for a very long time. The Honourable Hugh Segal, who some members in the party opposite might know, has been talking about this and has worked with researchers.

To have the opportunity as a government to put in place a pilot project on a basic income at a time when work is uncertain, when we have a global economy that is uncertain—we know that finding the data and getting the information from this basic income pilot is extremely important. Not just here in Ontario but internationally, there’s a great deal of attention being paid to the outcomes of the basic income pilot.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: I didn’t get an answer on the question of where the funds were going to come from. The minister of the crown had no idea.

The reality is—and this might be a news flash for this government—money doesn’t grow on trees. It actually has to come from somewhere. The spin afterwards by the government, saying it could come from the budget—the budget doesn’t produce money. The budget doesn’t pay taxes. The budget doesn’t pay fees. Taxpayers pay fees. Taxpayers work hard. To have a government right now that is completely disrespectful of taxpayer funds making announcements with no idea how they’re going to pay for them—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Housing.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, I’d like to get an answer. The government made an announcement yesterday. They had no idea where it’s coming from. Can the Premier show this Legislature the decency to tell us where that $150 million is going to come from?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I look forward to Thursday, when it will be laid out very clearly how our balanced budget builds on the platform that we have put in place over the last number of years. We have been working very hard to get to the point where we could invest in the people of this province, which we have been doing all along. To balance the budget actually gives us the opportunity to take the next step, to further invest in the people of this province and do the things that we know are necessary in order to build the inclusive economy that we know is necessary for this province and for the people who are struggling with uncertainty.

I’m not surprised that the Leader of the Opposition doesn’t support the basic income pilot. I’m not surprised at all, because this is a party that has a history of cutting public services, of actually undermining the foundation of the social safety network and the services that have been delivered in this province. This is a good thing.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Without comment. Start the clock.

Final supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: If the Liberals were sincere about their announcement they would have had some idea of how they’re going to pay for it. The reality is, after 14 years, Ontarians work harder, they pay more and they get less in Liberal Ontario. The cost of everything is going up, so it worries me when they make announcements with no clue of how they’re going to be paid for. If there’s one thing I know about this Liberal government, if there’s one thing they’re good at, it’s raising taxes. When they make an announcement with no clue how it’s going to be paid for, the reality is, it’s new taxes.

Can the Premier assure us that they’re not going to pay for this announcement through new taxes?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: What I can assure the member opposite of is that we will be bringing in a balanced budget on Thursday, a balanced budget that will allow us to make investments in the lives of people in this province.

A basic income pilot is part of that, making sure that we have the evidence to demonstrate whether such an initiative would actually be able to be rolled out across the province, whether it would help with precarious employment and the realities of displacement because of technology, because of—

Interjections.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Because of the changing nature of work. This is a huge opportunity to get evidence that will help us to make good decisions going forward—and not just us, but internationally.

Government contracts

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. We know the Liberal government gave the Gandalf Group over $3 million of taxpayers’ money to complete polling. Let’s just remember that the Gandalf Group is led by the Liberal Premier’s campaign manager, David Herle.

Mr. Speaker, can we get some assurances today from the Premier that this thank you to David Herle ended at the $3-million mark? Can the Premier assure us no more taxpayer money is going to be used to fund the Gandalf Group?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier?

Interjection.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Just a sec. I have to give it to you.

President of the Treasury Board.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): President of the Treasury Board.

Hon. Liz Sandals: We will sort this out. Thank you very much, Speaker.

The Government Advertising Act is very, very clear. The people who get government advertising contracts actually go through a competitive procurement process. If anybody, any firm, has a contract to do government advertising, that firm has gone through a procurement process. Some of them might have been Liberal. Some might have Tory ties. Some might have NDP ties. Some might have no ties. It doesn’t actually matter because what they all have in common is that they go through a public procurement process.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: I can appreciate why the Premier doesn’t want to be on the record on this: $3 million to the Gandalf Group—$3 million—and the minister says there is a strict process to determine who gets these polling contracts? Is the qualification to be on the Liberal campaign team? Because this doesn’t add up.

The reality is, the research that has been released publicly—they’re not even using the polling. The polling said that 70% were against the fire sale of Hydro One. They don’t care; they proceed. It said that 84% of people oppose ending coverage of some health care services, and they cut the budget of physicians anyway.

If you’re paying millions of dollars in polling and you don’t use the polling, the impression that’s left is this is simply a thank you to your campaign manager. Be honest with the people of Ontario and explain why this $3 million was spent on the Liberal campaign manager.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

President?

Hon. Liz Sandals: My apologies; you’re usually asking about advertising. Sorry, I didn’t catch it was polling. But, in fact, the answer is actually the same. If you are going to do market research for the government, you must go through a competitive procurement process.

The Gandalf Group, like absolutely anybody else who does market research for the government of Ontario, whether that’s a Liberal government or a Tory government or an NDP government, has gone through a competitive procurement—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Liz Sandals: And the decisions about which vendor is suitable after there’s an additional bid, the finalists go through a committee process which is a bureaucratic process, not a government process or a political process, to arrive at the—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Final supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: I’d appreciate it if the Premier could answer this for the House.

This Liberal thank-you program, where millions of dollars go out to the Liberal campaign officials, in this case the campaign manager—one of the questions they actually polled was interesting. It said that they’re asking what the public support would be for raising the HST. Of course, the vast majority of Ontario—69%—oppose the idea. But given the fact that they have ignored all the previous polling, can we now assume that we’re going to see a raise in the HST? Can the Premier assure the House today that the HST is not going to be raised?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Apparently, the member opposite hasn’t quite understood yet that this is a competitive process. We have a number of vendors of record on our “market research vendor of record” list. For example—and I’m quoting from the 2014-15 public accounts, which you have access to—the other market research firms included Forum Research, Ipsos Reid, the Strategic Counsel, EKOS Research, Environics Research and Harris/Decima.

So it isn’t just one firm. A variety of firms have been the winner when it comes to competitive procurement of government contracts for market research. In fact, it doesn’t matter what you procure; it is a competitive—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Pharmacare

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. More than two million Ontarians do not have drug coverage. One in four Ontarians cannot purchase the medications that they need to save their lives. Ontario is one of the wealthiest provinces in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. It’s simply unacceptable with the current situation.

People are going without the medication that will save their lives. This is just unbelievable. Does the Premier think that it’s okay for this to go on in our province?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As a government, we know how critical it is for the people of Ontario to have access to affordable and quality health care close to home, and that includes pharmacare. We believe that increasing access to pharmacare is a good idea, and we understand that this is an extremely important issue for the people of Ontario. The Minister of Health has been engaged in this conversation across the country. We understand that this is a very important idea, and I appreciate the question from the member.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: New Democrats believe in national pharmacare, but we have been waiting for national pharmacare for 50 years. If Tommy Douglas had waited for the federal government to act, we would have American-style health care here in Ontario. I don’t think that people should have to wait for the federal government to act in order to have access to medication that will save their lives.

Ontario New Democrats are going to do something about it. That’s why we have announced our plan for pharmacare. How long is this government going to have people wait before they get the coverage for life-saving medication that they need so desperately?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I know the member opposite knows my own views on this and the views of this government: how critically important it is that Ontarians and Canadians across this country have access to the drugs that they need, the prescribed medications that will keep them well, or will get them well if they fall ill. It’s an issue that the Premier has been championing for a long time.

I am really pleased that, after three years of our advocacy on the national stage, the NDP has finally decided to come to the table and join in our efforts to provide that access, because they haven’t addressed this publicly prior to just very recently.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: New Democrats believe our health care system should include medical coverage. People should not be in a situation where they cannot access life-saving medication that they need. People shouldn’t have to wait for Ottawa to maybe one day hopefully get its act together.

Why does the Premier think it’s okay that people are waiting to receive this desperately needed coverage, to receive the coverage that they need right now?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I know that this is an important issue to this government. It’s an important issue to me as a health care practitioner.

I was just reviewing an op-ed that I wrote way back in December 2014 that spoke to my own experience as a physician. The practice that I’ve worked in for over 20 years is exclusively immigrants and refugees, primarily from the Horn of Africa. They’re individuals that are of lower socio-economic status, and I spoke of the many, many times where I knew if I gave a prescription to these individuals, those families, it was unlikely that they would have the resources to fill it.

Or I would have to go into my sample drawer to actually provide them with a sample prescription because I knew they couldn’t afford to get it from a pharmacist. I understand how vitally important access to medicines is and, again, I welcome their recent advocacy on this issue.

Pharmacare

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la première ministre. Yesterday and again this morning, the Minister of Health agreed with my leader and the NDP that pharmacare is the unfinished business of medicare that was envisioned 51 years ago. New Democrats want to finish that business. We want people to get the life-saving medications that they need and we are ready to do something about it. Why aren’t the Liberals?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’m proud of many of the activities that this government has been responsible for when it comes to prescription drugs. Some 170,000 more seniors are no longer paying the $100 annual deductible.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Some 170,000 more seniors in this province since last year’s budget are receiving their medications without any annual deductible at all and with the copayment reduced from $6 down to $2 per prescription, Mr. Speaker. I am proud of the work that we have been doing nationally with the pan-Canadian Pharmaceutical Alliance, as well, where nationally we have saved over $700 million through bulk purchasing and bulk negotiating.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: Back to the Premier. The Premier may want to wait for her federal cousins, but Ontario cannot afford to wait. We cannot afford not to have pharmacare. Does the Premier believe people in Ontario should have universal access to medication?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, we announced earlier this year that we would be providing hepatitis C treatment to anyone with a diagnosis of hepatitis C infection, at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars to Ontarians. But this is almost a cure. In 95% of the cases, it results in a cure and it’s a dramatic new development in this field of treatment of hepatitis C.

These are the kinds of investments that we’re making, and we’re constantly adding medicines to our formulary as the evidence proves their efficacy and their value in treating and providing that important treatment to Ontarians. Last time I checked it—because we would welcome not only the advocacy here—Alberta does not have a pharmacare program either. We would appreciate their advocacy in talking to their cousins in Alberta on this important issue.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: My question was about universal access. When people get the medication they need, we all agree it saves lives, but the Liberals have left Ontarians waiting and waiting and waiting even longer for the drug coverage that they need. Pharmacare isn’t something that people should be waiting for. New Democrats get that and we’re ready to do something about it.

Why don’t the Liberals get it?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: So, Mr. Speaker, it’s clear. Our government’s position on access to medicines is crystal clear. For many years now, we have pointed out the fact that one out of 10 Canadians and probably one out of 10 or more Ontario families are unable to access the medicines that they need because of financial limitations. That’s not right, and that’s why we have so strongly advocated for increasing that access, why we continue to advocate for it, and we take measures like we did last year: 170,000 more seniors that no longer have to pay a $100 deductible, no longer pay that $6 copayment. It’s now $2. These are the kinds of measures, but I appreciate—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Ancaster, come to order.

Wrap-up sentence.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Just that I’m glad the NDP has come to the table. We need their help as we continue to improve access to medicines.

Local health integration networks

Mr. Jeff Yurek: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Section 20.1 of the Local Health System Integration Act, 2006, prohibits local LHINs from restricting or preventing individuals from receiving services based on the geographical area in which they live. I’ve been assured by numerous senior sources of both my local LHIN in my riding as well as ministry staff that LHIN boundaries would never prevent or interfere with one’s right to access decent and proper health care in this province.

Speaker, is the minister aware of any deviations from this specific policy?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, clearly the member opposite has one, and I’m going to hear about it in the supplementary.

But, Mr. Speaker, it’s important to reiterate to this House, as well as to Ontarians, that at least in his first question, what the member opposite has stated is true, that there are no boundaries in terms of access to medicine. So an individual, perhaps, who resides in Thunder Bay is welcome to access the health services that are available in SickKids hospital or Ottawa civic hospital; there are no restrictions for any type of health care service that is provided.

I’m interested in the supplementary; I suspect I’m going to hear of a concern. I’m going to pre-empt, to some degree, the member opposite by saying that I want to work with you, because that is not permitted in this province. Let’s find a way to address it effectively.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary? The member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington.

Mr. Randy Hillier: You’re absolutely correct, Minister. We do have an example. On April 21, the Ottawa Hospital sent out this memo informing doctors in my riding that the department of medical imaging’s breast imaging program is experiencing significant delays. Their solution, as outlined in the memo, would be that they will only accept patients from the Champlain LHIN region. This prevents people in my riding from going to Ottawa to get necessary services. It is in direct conflict with the minister’s statement, and it’s in direct contradiction to the legislation.

Speaker, will the minister direct the Champlain LHIN and the Ottawa Hospital to accept patients from outside their LHIN and contact the doctors in my riding and assure them that this memo is false and has no effect? If I could have a page take the memo over—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’m delighted to receive this information, and I look forward to seeing the memo.

Frankly, I kind of like it, as well, when members ask to speak with me directly or grab me at the end of question period and solve a problem, but I appreciate that there might be an ambition to score a political point at the same time.

I’m interested, Mr. Speaker, in solving problems. I think almost every member on that side of the Legislature knows, or even has personal experience of, how hard I’ve worked with them to try to improve, augment or correct health services in their jurisdictions. That’s the way I work as health minister.

I’m happy to work on this particular issue. I know we’ve dramatically expanded breast cancer screening services across this province under the previous health minister, who’s sitting to my left. I anticipate that those services are available over a wide swath of that region, but I’m going to look into it specifically.

Executive compensation

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Premier. Late last week, the government quietly announced that it had approved a massive increase in the salary ranges for OPG executives. The top salary of the OPG CEO is now $3.8 million, which is double his current salary. Meanwhile, starting next week, ratepayers who have been unable to pay their hydro bills will start losing their electricity. How does the Premier explain to families who may lose their electricity why they have to pay more to give an OPG CEO a 100% increase in salary?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Once again, when it comes to OPG salaries, Mr. Speaker, we do have a framework in place to ensure that they are paid comparatively and fairly. When we have people running our nuclear facilities and having a 40-year history of safety, we want to ensure that these people are paid not at the top, not at the bottom, but paid right in the middle of the pack within their sector.

When it comes to looking at rates that are happening for folks right across the province, I was pleased to hear last week that the Ontario Energy Board’s decision will begin to lower rates even further on May 1, in anticipation of our government’s fair hydro plan. That’s going to mean that on May 1, the OEB’s decision will have rates reduced by 17% by May 1.

While the opposition parties have, like, a pamphlet for their plan, we’re acting.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Again to the Premier: It’s not surprising that a Premier who thinks ratepayers should pay twice as much for the OPG CEO also thinks ratepayers should pay twice as much for hydro. The connection between skyrocketing hydro CEO salaries and skyrocketing hydro disconnections could not be clearer. It speaks to the values of this government, which treats hydro ratepayers as cash cows for senior executives, for private financiers and for other friends of the Premier, at the same time dismissing the struggles of ordinary Ontarians—until, of course, this government is backed into a political corner.

Why does the Premier always put the interests of the executive class ahead of the needs of ordinary Ontario families? Why?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m very pleased to rise and talk about how this Premier and this government are putting the needs of Ontarians first, Mr. Speaker, not on the last page of their plan like the third party. We’re making sure that First Nations’ delivery charges are addressed; they don’t even mention First Nations when it comes to offering help. This Premier and this government—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: When it comes to the Ontario Electricity Support Program, we increased that by 50%, ensuring that families and individuals who are struggling when it comes to their electricity prices will receive more help. That is what this Premier and this government do. On that side of the House, they have no plan and they can’t even make up a plan that works.

Housing policy

Mrs. Cristina Martins: My question is to the Minister of Finance. It’s no secret that the housing market in the greater Golden Horseshoe has experienced dramatic price increases in recent months. We have all seen the stories reporting that housing prices in Toronto are up 33% from this time last year. But, Mr. Speaker, while our hot housing market is tied to the confidence people have in the Ontario economy, we know that many are struggling with housing affordability.

In my own riding of Davenport, I’ve heard from so many hard-working young families about the difficulty that they are having entering the housing market, so just last week I was so proud to stand by the Premier as she, along with yourself and the Minister of Housing, announced the introduction of Ontario’s Fair Housing Plan. Mr. Speaker, this announcement was wonderful news for the constituents in my riding of Davenport, who are working so hard every day to purchase a safe and affordable place to call home.

Could the minister please share with my constituents and all the members of this House what this plan—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the member from Davenport, who attended that press conference and has been advocating and fighting, not only supporting those who are renting and who are being subject to valuations beyond their control, but also trying to advocate for young families to get a starter home, enabling them to get some equity built in their homes. Given the spike and great increase year over year that has occurred, she has been advocating, alongside this caucus, to find ways to temper the marketplace, by going after those speculators with deep pockets who are crowding out those very families that are trying to get a start.

I congratulate her, our team and our caucus for finding ways to cool the market to ensure that everybody has a better chance.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Cristina Martins: Thank you to the minister for his answer. I know that my constituents in my riding of Davenport were also excited to hear that Ontario is also proposing to expand rent control as part of the fair housing plan. This is an issue I’ve had the pleasure to write to the Ministry of Housing about previously, most recently in February.

Minister, as you are aware, many tenants across the GTA, including in my riding of Davenport, have been faced with unacceptable rent increases. In one case, tenants in the south end of my riding received a shock when the rent on their two-bedroom condo nearly doubled, from $1,660 a month to $3,320 a month. With so many of my constituents in Davenport and right across the greater Golden Horseshoe living in rental housing, it is so important for our government to let those people know that economic evictions are unacceptable.

Speaker, through you to the minister, can you please tell the members of this House—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Minister of Housing.

Hon. Chris Ballard: Thank you to the member for her question. She has indeed been a tireless advocate on this important issue. We’ve heard stories of unreasonable and shocking rental hikes in today’s market, stories like Pauline’s, who lives in Toronto and told me that she’s fearful that her family will be forced out of their condominium due to an unreasonable rent hike.

Stories like Pauline and her family’s are why we introduced the Rental Fairness Act yesterday in the House. If passed, our bill will expand rent controls to all private rental units, including those built after 1999. In addition, this bill includes a suite of other measures that protect tenants. By passing this bill, a quarter of a million people would be protected from unreasonable rent hikes. Whether you’re a senior on a fixed income or a young person just starting off, all Ontarians deserve rent that’s affordable.

Hospital funding

Mr. Jim McDonell: To the Minister of Health: The health of Ontario’s hospitals is suffering from a critical lack of funding. Cornwall Community Hospital’s occupancy rates are so high that patients have to be accommodated in hallways, empty office spaces or any cubbyhole that staff can find. Yet ministry people dismiss the concern, saying that the real number really happens at midnight.

Would this minister really stand next to a senior heart attack patient in a stretcher in the hallway and tell them that they really only count if they’re still alive at midnight?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: As the member opposite knows, we have made substantial new investments in our hospitals on two fronts. On the operating side, we’ve increased operating budgets by about 3% this year alone—close to $500 million. On the capital side, we’ve made what I’m confident is the largest, most substantial capital investment in hospitals in this province’s history: $12 billion over a 10-year period.

We’re seeing the results of both of those actions—in many cases, quite dramatic increases in hospitals’ operating budgets. We reference the member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes: Her hospital, the Haliburton hospital was getting a 10% increase in the operating budget last year. These are important investments.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Jim McDonell: Back to the minister: Cornwall Community Hospital reported occupancy rates as high as 138% this year, with a high incidence of alternative-level-of-care patients facing the longest wait times in Ontario for proper placement.

Yet, when questioned, the government says they have twice as many beds as they need until 2030. Someone doesn’t know what’s going on, and it isn’t the waiting patients. Minister, if, as your figures say, we have too many beds, then why are the ALC patients in Cornwall waiting over a year to be placed?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, I feel like perhaps it’s a two-part answer that is required here.

When it comes to Cornwall Community Hospital itself, I’m proud to say that we increased their operating budget by over $4 million last year. That was a 5.4% increase in the operating budget for that hospital alone.

When it comes to long-term care and ensuring that residents of Cornwall and the surrounding region have a place to live, since coming into office, we have built more than 10,000 brand-new, long-term-care beds; we’re redeveloping an additional 30,000 beds between now and 2025.

But we’re also looking at other opportunities to ensure, whether it’s in the home, in the community, in long-term care or in the hospital, patients and clients are getting the highest quality of care at the best possible place for them and where they want to be.

Employment

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. After nearly 14 years of Liberal government, for far too many hard-working Ontarians good-paying, full-time jobs are a thing of the past. What have they been left with from this Liberal government? Worries, Mr. Speaker; worries about how they’re going to pay their bills, their hydro, their rent; worries about how they’re going to make a good future for their kids.

Now the Changing Workplaces Review is in. What are you waiting for? Where’s the action? Not the talk; where is the action from this government to implement some changes for the people of this province?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: The member must be a Maple Leafs fan because he knows a bandwagon when he sees one.

We’ve been working very, very hard at this. We want every family in this province to benefit from the growing economy, but even as we create those new jobs, we need to be aware that the world of work is changing and with these changes come new challenges.

We’re addressing these concerns head-on through the Changing Workplaces Review. As the Premier said yesterday, it’s more about just protecting people’s wages and their ability to earn a good living. What we’re doing is creating a framework for an economy that focuses on decency for workers and fairness for those families. Ontario workers need us to get this done right, not just quickly.

The NDP called this process a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. Workers in the province of Ontario couldn’t disagree more.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: If this was a hockey game, this government would get a penalty for delay of game.

Too many Ontarians have reached the tipping point. That’s why New Democrats have committed to a $15 minimum wage, to an easier path to the middle class through unionization, to the same pay for the same work for people working through a temporary job agency, to drug coverage for all Ontarians. We want hard-working Ontarians to be lifted out of poverty, not to be stuck in it.

What is the Premier going to do today not for her friends but for the hard-working Ontarians of this province who have been under this government’s rule for 14 years? What is she going to do for them today? We need action now.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Thank you to the member for the question. We’ve made sure that the province of Ontario follows a very consistent, predictable and impartial process when it comes to a minimum wage increase in Ontario. Contrast that to between 1996 and 2003 when the party opposite froze the minimum wage for seven years at $6.85.

Since then, since 2003, we’ve increased the minimum wage by more than 70%. What we did is, we went out and consulted with organized labour, consulted with business and consulted with poverty advocates. We consulted with anybody who had an interest in the healthy economy of this province. We’ve got a predictable system in place. We’re having an increase this year, as we have year after year after year.

Speaker, if this was a football game, the NDP fumbled the football.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Start the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order, please.

New question?

Basic income

Mr. Ted McMeekin: Before I ask my important question, I just want to take a minute as a cancer survivor to thank the cancer society, which is here today, for doing such great work all across Ontario.

Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. Our government has always taken a leadership role in exploring creative and innovative ways to reduce poverty and support people living on low incomes.

In the 2016 budget, our government committed to testing how a basic income might help people on low incomes better meet their basic needs while improving their education, employment and health. Yesterday morning, I was thrilled to host the Premier and the Ministers of Housing and Community and Social Services in Hamilton when the Premier announced details of Ontario’s basic income pilot.

I understand a plan for the pilot builds on feedback, so Speaker, I want to know, through you: Can the minister please tell members of this House more about Ontario’s basic income pilot?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Thank you very much to the member for his long-time championing of this very interesting idea.

The basic income pilot will be testing a new approach to income support in a careful, step-by-step way to ensure we get it right. We’re starting small, using the lessons learned as we build the pilot out in further phases. Our ultimate goal is to better understand whether this approach could help people living on low incomes in their everyday lives.

Beginning later this spring, the three-year pilot will launch in two regions: Hamilton, including Brantford and Brant county; and Thunder Bay and the surrounding area. A third location, Lindsay, will be added in the fall. Up to 4,000 participants will be included in the pilot across the three sites at full implementation.

As I said yesterday, I am pleased that I’m not going to be losing anything from my social assistance budget as we move forward into this important project.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Ted McMeekin: Thank you to the minister.

My constituents were excited to hear the news yesterday. They know that though Ontario’s economy is in a relatively strong position, many people in the province are not feeling that growth in their everyday lives. People are struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living and facing precarious employment with little job security or benefits. Ontario’s basic income pilot will be, I think, a great opportunity to study whether a basic income can better support vulnerable workers and give people the security and opportunity they need to achieve their potential.

Will the minister tell us more about this innovative pilot project, including who will be eligible to participate and how much support they will receive?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Minister responsible for the Poverty Reduction Strategy.

Hon. Chris Ballard: Thank you to the member for his tireless advocacy on behalf of the most vulnerable across Ontario.

The basic income pilot will help us test ways to make everyday life easier for Ontarians by removing barriers that still stand in the way of improved health, employment and housing for too many among us. Study participants will be randomly selected, 18 to 64 years old, living in one of the selected test locations for the past 12 months or longer and living on a low income.

We’re using a tax credit model. The Ontario basic income pilot will ensure participants receive just under $17,000 a year for a single person, less 50% of any earned income; just over $24,000 a year for a couple, again, less 50% of any earned income; and up to an additional $6,000 a year for a person with a disability.

Testing a basic income model—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Sorry.

New question.

Labour dispute

For example, many seniors who cannot hear are literally shut in their homes in isolation while also dealing with chronic health conditions. These are life-and-death situations.

My question to the minister is, what is the government doing to protect the deaf community in this situation and what backup measures have they put in place to ensure that the Ontario deaf community isn’t falling through the cracks?

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I want to thank the member opposite from the PC Party for this question. It’s important. I have met with this group on many occasions and have received the recent correspondence as well. They are strong advocates for the deaf community in Durham and beyond. They do fantastic work and they are pushing forward on a number of fronts, including visual smoke detectors.

I know the Minister of Labour will comment in the supplementary on the labour issues, but I do want to acknowledge the work—I think I have a meeting upcoming with them as well, so we can talk about these issues and coordinate our efforts with the Ministry of Labour.

Thank you for raising the question, and the Minister of Labour will respond to the labour issues.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary? The member from Thornhill.

This is a vulnerable community whose lives have been put on hold. Will the minister please tell us what she is doing to ensure that Ontarians who require sign-language translators, hearing tests and hearing aid repairs are not left in silence?

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I appreciate the question and I appreciate the member opposite showing her support for the parties that are involved in this negotiation. I also have talked to members of the third party on this.

During a labour dispute, what the government does is it focuses on assisting the parties to get them back to the table. It’s a shared responsibility. We’ve got some of the best mediators in the country who work right here at the province of Ontario. We’ve had somebody in; we’ve had somebody involved with the parties. We remain available to assist them, to bring them back to the bargaining table.

What we’re doing is we’re encouraging the employer and the employees in this case, and the union, to make every effort to resolve those differences, to bring them back to the table. We’re confident that if they work together, these parties can reach a settlement. We have a strong history in the province of Ontario of resolving these differences without strikes or lockouts—almost 99%. In this case, we need to do a little bit more work, and we will.

Child care

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question is to the Premier. Premier, parents, families and advocates know that we don’t have a child care system in Ontario. What we have is a crisis. We don’t have affordable fees for families. We don’t have decent work or pay for educators. We don’t have enough quality not-for-profit child care spaces. The Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care said, “We need every dollar of this child care expansion going to our kids. There is simply no room for profit.”

When there is a political crisis, that’s when this government wakes up. Unfortunately, they were too late on the hydro crisis and they were too late on the housing crisis. What will it take for this Liberal government to wake up to the child care crisis in this province?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister responsible for early learning and child care.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister responsible for children and youth services.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: No, early years.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Early years.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: I want to thank the member opposite for this question. Now, I understand that the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care was here today to talk about child care in the province. Absolutely, creating a safe and healthy environment and giving our kids the best start in life is the most important thing we can do. Our plan is to transform the way that child care is delivered in this province—

Interruption.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: —and it’s great to see a young Ontarian in the House today with us.

We are here, really, as voices for parents and families. We know that for parents, finding an infant, toddler or preschool child care spot can be very challenging. We know the current capacity isn’t there. That’s why we’re committing to build 100,000 new spaces and transform the way we’re delivering child care in the province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Catherine Fife: Premier, families cannot wait any longer. Parents face the highest child care costs in Canada. Child care fees in Ontario cost 50% more than undergraduate tuition in the province; 24% of the ECEs who are here today make less than $15 an hour.

We know that public and not-for-profit child care spaces provide the highest quality, but this government won’t commit to building a system based on quality. For 14 years, families have waited as costs have risen and wait-lists have grown. They cannot wait any longer. When will Ontario see a quality, affordable, accessible child care system that puts children ahead of profit?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of early years and child care—I apologize.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: Thank you, Speaker.

I just want to say that we are transforming the way we deliver child care in this province, absolutely. We are currently working on a five-year rollout plan, which is under development. What we’re committing to do is to create accessible, affordable, responsive, quality spaces. What we have done is gone across the province holding consultations with thousands of people. We’re now in the process of making sure that our plan is good and strong.

The third party does a lot of talking, but the bottom line is, even in their recent vision statement, child care was only one paragraph of what they put out as part of their plan. There were no timelines. There were no funding numbers. We actually have done our homework, and we’re getting ready to ensure that we create space for 100,000 new children in childcare in this province.

Forestry industry

Mr. Mike Colle: My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry. Minister, as you know, last week the government south of the border attacked our dairy farmers and our dairy industry. This week, they’re attacking our forest industry and our forestry workers. Many Ontarians are very concerned about what’s happening, and they’re wondering what the impact of these new exorbitant tariffs and duties threatened by the States will do to our workers in softwood lumber exports and in this industry.

What action is our government taking to stand up to the abusive imposition of tariffs and these attacks on our dairy industry and, especially, on our forestry industry?

Hon. Kathryn McGarry: I’d like to thank the member from Eglinton–Lawrence for his question. I am disappointed that the US government has decided to impose unreasonable duties, putting unnecessary financial pressure on Ontario’s lumber producers and remanufacturers. We believe that fair and open trade is the best outcome for consumers on both sides of the border.

Our government is standing alongside our forestry sector and the families that depend upon it. Our government has been working with various partners to increase the amount of Ontario wood used in large-scale building construction across the province.

That’s not all, Speaker. I’m also proud to say that we’ve just provided $10 million in additional funding to the forestry industry to reimburse costs for road construction and maintenance on public-access roads. Ontario is standing alongside our forestry sector to protect the well-paying jobs and important economic benefits that this sector provides for workers and their families.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Mike Colle: Thank you, Minister, for your response. As you know, many small communities throughout Ontario depend on jobs in the forestry sector. I don’t have to tell you that. I think we need to all stand together in saying this is not acceptable.

Therefore, on behalf of not only the workers in the forestry sector, but everybody in Ontario who is worried about these arbitrary increases in tariffs and what they’re going to do to jobs in this important industry, I wonder what concrete steps the ministry has taken and will take to ensure we don’t let them get away with this?

Hon. Kathryn McGarry: I appreciate the member’s concern over this important issue. Our $15.5-billion forestry sector plays a significant role in 230 communities across Ontario and in the management of Ontario’s boreal forests in support of climate change initiatives, which is why we recently hired our chief negotiator, former federal trade minister Jim Peterson. Jim will help to advocate for free and open trade for Ontario’s softwood industry.

In Canada, negotiating trade deals is the responsibility of the federal government. That’s why we’re asking the federal government to listen to the Ontario and Quebec forestry industries and create a loan guarantee program. I have met with Ministers Carr and Freeland many times on this issue.

We cannot let the unpredictability of our southern neighbour affect the jobs and well-being of people here in Ontario. As we defend against this unfair decision, we’ll support our industry partners, responding to their concerns and vigorously representing their industry in Ottawa and Washington.

Northern economy

Mr. Norm Miller: My question is to the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. In the three years’ worth of public polling your government tabled quietly in February, one poll by the Ministry of Finance found that 65% of northern Ontarians were very concerned and 29% were concerned about their local economies. In total, 94% of northerners are concerned or very concerned about their local economies.

Does the minister agree that developing the Ring of Fire will boost the northern economy and alleviate some of these concerns?

Hon. Bill Mauro: Thank you to the member for the question. Maybe I’ll deal with the Ring of Fire piece in the supplementary. Maybe I’ll start by just talking about the difference in the level of support that has come from this government to the municipal sector, as opposed to the level of support that did not come from the opposition Conservatives when they were in government from 1995 to 2003.

It is very clear and it is very obvious to the municipal sector right across the province of Ontario—not just in northern Ontario—that the financial assistance that has flowed through a variety of programs from this government, starting in 2003, has better positioned businesses right across northern Ontario and has better positioned local resident taxpayers when it comes to the communities that they live in.

No thanks to the work that went on with eight years of no support from a Conservative government, but tremendous support through a variety of programs from this Liberal government since 2003. Those programs are in place, those programs continue, and local taxpayers are better positioned as a result.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Norm Miller: I guess the minister didn’t hear my question: 94% of northerners are concerned about their local economies. That’s very disturbing.

Northern Ontarians need this government to do something to give them some hope. Mining, especially the Ring of Fire, offers that hope. This government has made lots of promises but delivered very little on this file. This government has more than once announced funding for transportation infrastructure in the Ring of Fire region.

My question, Mr. Speaker: Would the minister please tell us how many dollars have been spent on transportation infrastructure in the Ring of Fire region, and when can we expect to see the physical evidence of some actual work being done?

Hon. Bill Mauro: Speaker, when it comes to support for northern communities, you just heard the minister—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Zero and never, thank you very much.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. You were doing so well.

Hon. Bill Mauro: Speaker, when it comes to support for northern communities and businesses based in northern Ontario, you just heard the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry run down quite a significant laundry list of supports that we have put in place to help 230 communities in northern Ontario that rely on the forest industry, like bringing back forestry roads programs that were downloaded by both the previous opposition parties: the NDP when they were in government and the Conservatives when they were in government.

Specifically on the mining sector, the member knows—they want to focus on one project. That’s fine. They want to try and score a few political points. You want to talk about mining? Perhaps the member opposite can speak to why New Gold has just operated a mine four hours west of Thunder Bay: 600 people on a construction site; 450 people who will remain employed in that operation once it’s open.

Mining is continuing to move forward. They want to focus on the one project. It’s doing very well. Exploration is up—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

New question?

Labour dispute

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: My question is to the Premier. Workers at the Canadian Hearing Society are now entering their seventh week off the job. That’s seven weeks that people who are deaf or hard-of-hearing are not getting the support they need to thrive.

The result: People like Paul in Sudbury, who had been forced to tell his father that he’s going to die, to sign to him that he’s going to die, rather than be able to simply hold his hand during his final moments.

Speaker, workers at the Canadian Hearing Society are here today, along with allies, fighting to have their work valued. Does the Premier agree that it’s time for the employer and the union, through a third party, to get these issues dealt with and let these workers get back to serving a vulnerable community?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Thank you to the member for that question. I know the member opposite, more than many in this House, believes in the collective bargaining process. We know if we can get those parties back to the table, using the skilled mediators that we have in the province of Ontario, we can reach an agreement. We always do: 99% of collective bargaining agreements in the province of Ontario are reached without any lockout, without any strike, without any action at all.

Speaker, we’re encouraging the employers and the unions to get back to the table to resolve their differences. It’s how it’s done in the province of Ontario, and it works in the province of Ontario. As I said to a previous answer, Speaker, almost 99%—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Almost 99% of collective agreements are reached without any action. Last year, we had 18 work stoppages in the province of Ontario. But compare that to the average—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Final supplementary?

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: Again to the Premier: While this government constantly passes the puck on their responsibilities to protect workers and vulnerable populations, they have done nothing to rein in executive salaries at taxpayer-funded organizations.

The CHS receives more than $20 million for services from the province each year. Unfortunately, a large portion of this has gone to exorbitant wage increases for top executives, including a 75% increase for the CEO in just three years. All the while, front-line staff, many of whom are deaf or hard-of-hearing themselves, haven’t had a wage increase since their contract expired four years ago.

I invite the Premier to join me, workers, and allies at the rally today to support the workers of the Canadian Hearing Society and recognize the importance of their service to the community. Will the Premier finally give vulnerable populations the respect and attention they deserve?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: We’ve got a very highly skilled mediation team, a conciliation team, in the province of Ontario that I think is second to none. It’s got a tremendous record for helping to resolve disputes such as this. We’ve been involved with the parties—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): If you think it’s over, it doesn’t necessarily mean I can’t warn you or name you.

Finish, please.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: My job as the Minister of Labour is to be impartial and to ensure that we’re doing everything we possibly can to bring these parties back to the table. We don’t like strikes. We don’t like to see lockouts. We don’t like to see people not receiving the services. Last year, Speaker, 18 work stoppages; when the NDP were in power—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Windsor West is warned.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: —139 work stoppages, Speaker.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No questions.

Correction of record

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Housing on a point of order.

Hon. Chris Ballard: Yes, a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I’d just like to correct my record. Ontario’s new fair housing plan will expand rent controls to all private rental units, including those built after 1991.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Ottawa South on a point of order.

Mr. John Fraser: A point of order: I’d like to welcome Ron Clifton, board director with the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, and Byron James from the Canadian Cancer Society. Both are from Ottawa. Welcome to the Legislature.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The minister responsible for women’s issues.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: I’d like to welcome Catherine Smallegange. She is a guest of page Kenna Smallegange and is here in the public gallery today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Notice of dissatisfaction

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Pursuant to standing order 38(a), the member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry has given notice of his dissatisfaction with the answer to his question given by the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care concerning high occupancy rates at a community hospital. This matter will be debated today at 6 p.m.

There are no deferred votes. This House stands recessed until 3 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1150 to 1500.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I ask all members of the House to join me in welcoming, from Peel Planning Groups, Brett Paveling and Jamie Curran, who are in the members’ gallery today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Welcome.

Members’ Statements

Culbert’s Bakery

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: For 140 years, Culbert’s Bakery has been a local fixture on Goderich’s West Street, offering everything from breads and cake to muffins, pies and tarts to locals and visitors alike as they head down to the harbour and the beautiful west coast.

Built in 1877 by David Cantelon, the bakery was later purchased by the Culbert family in 1942. Co-owner Darin Culbert is the third generation to work in the shop. He is up each morning at 1 a.m. to begin the day’s baking. His son Evan is the fourth generation of Culberts to work there, and he’s been learning the ropes at his father’s side so that one day he can take over the reins himself.

Famous for their cream puffs and their doughnuts, the bakery also offers the Canada cupcake for Canada Day weekend. All of this is baked in the store’s original brick oven, which was installed in 1881.

Such a fixture is this family business and its baked goods that not even the F3 tornado in 2011 could deflate their spirits. In fact, despite the tornado shuttering the bakery for just under one year and actually putting out the oven’s fire, which had burned non-stop for more than a century, the team rallied together and opened their doors just 10 months later, after making the necessary repairs.

It was interesting; the Culbert family thought about closing their doors, but after customers were lined up outside at 6 o’clock in the morning on the first day that they reopened, it put all doubts aside.

It’s a great place to stop when you’re in Goderich.

Health care

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I rise today to speak about the very serious problem that is impacting Ontario seniors and thousands of workers across the province. As the NDP critic for seniors,