Volum e 3 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 3rd. Session VERBATIM REPORT FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1974 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number 11

February 15, 1974 The Houe met at 3:00 P,M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! PETITIONS 2'48 MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for White Bay South. PK - 1 MR. W. N. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to present a petition I received from between 200 residents and 300 residents of Fleur de Lys and Coachman's Cove in the District of White Bay South. Like the member for St, George's yesterday the petition is also signed by many students of that area who travel back and forth over the road to go to high school :1.n Baie Vert!e.

The petition says aside from the students travelling back and forth over the road there are 9,210 employees of Advocate Mines who have to use this road everyday of the week, that is the road from Fleur de Lys into Baie Verte. As everybody is aware,with the rising costs of the day it is almost impossible to keep a car on the road under the present conditions. The petition mentions that a start was made on upgrading that road about three years ago but since the last election the petition says "All improvement has ceased." Well they have a lot in common with most other roads in the province in that regard, Mr.

Speaker. I re~eived this petition during the summer and although I contacted the Department of Highways on it at that time by letter I wanted to keep the petition itself until I had an opportunity to present it to this honourable House. I support the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker. I would urge the Minister of Highways and his colleagues to attempt to get some of the $100 million a year which is comi"ng from DREE every year for ~ the next ten years.

El!pecially in view of t·he fact that there nl'e no longer any special areas in the province then, of course, money for highways.from DREE can be spent all over the province on an equal basis, So I will take great pleasure in asking that this petition be received by the House and referred to the depart~ent to which it relates 842

February 15, 1974 Tape 248 PK - 2 in the hope that the Minister of Transvortation and Cornmunicntions will see that something is done about upgradinr, that road, Sir, continuing the upgradillg of that road in the coming construction 1;1eason. MR, SPEAKER: The Hon, Minister of Provincial Affairs and Bnvironmertt. HON . G. DAWE : (MINISTER OP PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS ANTI ENVIRONMENT): Mr. Speaker, I ~ould like to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Country Path Road in Holyrood, This is a sort st'll'etch of road which connects the Conception Bay Highway with the Salmonier Line, The.se people were promi.s.ed pavement as far back to my knowledge as 1966 during the provincial election 843

February 15, 1974. Tape 249 RH - 1 but unfortunately even the former administration did not get around to fulfilling this promise along with, of course, many other promises which they made at that time. I would like, Sir, to table this pe.tition and I sincerely hope that it will find its way on the top of the stack and that it will be r,iven innnediate attention. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Bell Island. --·- - -- MR. S. A. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to support the petition on behalf of the residents of Country Path in Holyrood.

I might point out to honourable member who presented the petition, Sir, that it was the Liberal administration who took these people out of isolation in the first place. Now, Sir, the least the Tory administration can do is to pave the foundation that we have already put there for them, HON. A. J. MURPHY (Minister of Social Assistance): I too would like to add my voice to that. I remember back i.n 1966, 196 7 and 1968, speaking on hehalf of the same people, that this work would be done.

So, I do not think it is any too soon if our Government can manage to ~et it in and the minister can get it into his programme this year, if it is possible, with other demands,but I am sure that these people waiting ten years or so need to be looked at. NOTICE OF MOTIONS: RON. J. C. CROSBIE (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave of the House to introduce: A bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Gasoline Tax Act." AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: Yes, ~oing to wop her up! ORDERS OF THE DAY: I MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member f5r Fogo. ~- MR. E;.

W_.__Ji!_NSOR: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the honourable Minister of Social Assistance. Is the minister able to tell the House that some unfortunate fishermen who were on welfare were refused welfare yesterday when it was known that they had received compensation of $300.00 from the 844

February 15, 1974. Tape 249 RH - 2 Federal Government because of the ice delay in p;etting fishing last spring? MR, MUR?HY: Mr. Speaker, in answer t;o that, my deputy minister, I think, dealt fully with the situationJwith the honourable member this morning. I received one letter from Island Harbour and the situation was this, Sir, that to my knowledge that this $309,00 was not damages. It was due to the late start of the fishery.

At that time, these people who ~ould not fish,naturally, did not have any in­ come and the Department of Social-Assistance helped them by giving them money at the time. . ,, .. - Now, this money comes back, so what is happening, someone gets $300.00 today and they expect the department, rightly or wrongly, we are looking at the thing, to say, "Look, I will give you another $300.00"-• because we already gave them $300.00 to keep them going back in the spring, whenever it Wll.s, Now they r,ct $300.00, it is late--start money because I checked the thing out.

It has nothing to do ~nth stonn damage or anything else to do with loss of equipment. It is just the feet that the people, due to the ice late last spring, the people could not work. Consequently, they had no income. So, naturally enough, the Department of Social Assistance is always ready to fill a need and the need was the need for income at the time,which we did, which we did. Now, what is happening; this pay comes to replace what they did not get last year but that our department gave them.

So, I do not know if it is the attitude of the people that we be paid back the $300.00 the taxpayers gave them last May and we would carry them on this year but income is income, Sir and if they have $300.00 income - If a guy is working on Water Street or anywhere else, comes to my department and says, "I have $300.00 in cash I in income", I do not think we are expe~,}ed, the ta:,cpayers do not Sir, expect us to give them another $300,00.' I think that is the case unless something different is proven, Sir. I do not know what our department - I have only had one. The honourable member 845

FebruRry 15, 1974. T:ipe 249 RH - 3 for Fo~o, I think, explained it at r,reat length to my deputy minister this morning and then, of course, he went to the radio and television stations, at great length 1 telling them the story. You know, let us be a bit fair. I.et us find out. I am governed by law, Sir and I just want to explain this. I am governed by law - to deal with people on Fogo the same as St. John's Centre, anywhere else. I can only do it under the. law unless you want to pass a .special amendment that we do not regard this as income and give thetn another $300.00 MR.

SPEAKER: The honourable tnember for Bonavista North. MR. P. $. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a ques,tion to the Minister of Social Services. For the people who were not on welfare in late May and June of 1973 but who today find themselves on welfare and who received this amount of $300.00, why are they taken off of welfare payments now? They did not receive money last week. MR. MUR!'HY: I do not care what they received. They had $300.00 income this month, 846 ,.

r February 15, 1974, Tape 250, Page 1 -- apb whether they r,ot it from Lhe federal governmet, from the gov£-rnmcnt in Washington, from Water Street, from Avalon Mall, they had three hundred dollars income. Mr. Speaker, if I may I would just like to explain the process of the Department of Welfare. You come to the department because you have no income. If you have income of three hundred dollars and your needs are four hundred dollars we will give you one hundred dollars. It is as simple as all that.

Not because the federal government decide to give someone three hundred dollars or the Department of Welfare or the Department of Health gives someone - that is money and is regarded as income. There is nothing we can do about it. I do not know if there .are any special cases. They have not come to my attention. Only one letter is all that I have received and that if from Island Harbour, I think you call it, in Fogo. I responded, I phoned the lady and told her the story on it and that was all I could do, Sir. Income is income. MR. NEARY: It is not a federal law. Do not be so foolish, Federal law my eye!

Get out of here! SOME HON, MEMBERS: (Inaudible) MR. SPEAKER: Order please! AN HON. MEMBER: Highway robbery. KR. ·SPEAKER: Order please~ MR. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, Is the minister aware that most of those fishermen, last year when they could not get fishing, had to go to their merchant or supplier and take credit, A lot of that three hundred dollars now is owed to the merchant. The three hundred dollars was paid by the federal government ~o compensate them for the loss of earnings last spring. Is he not aware of that? ·' MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, I do not kn~i what I am aware of.

Only one letter is all that I have received. As I said, the honourable member today phoned my department when I happened to be in the deputy minister's office, about I do not know how many cases. There is only one that has come to my attention. If there are any cases, if there are any cases that the honourable member feel that we should look at, 847 ~-

February 15, 1974, Tnpe 250, Page 2 -- apb let us know about them. I cannot deal with things I am not aware of. As far as paying bnC'k bills, I have hundreds of people telling me they owe back payments on the automobile, on their fridge, on this, on that, Are we expected to pay all these things? That is the only question I ask the House, Let us be decent on the thing. Do not try to put a motive there that is not there. Any for111er Minister of Welfare, except the member for Bell Island, I think will realize the situation in the Department of Social Services. MR. NEARY: Go down to the Governor and resign. MR.

SPEAKER: Order please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the honourable the Premier. Would the Premier please inform the Rouse when it is the intention of his government to hold the International Conference that he announced some time ago on illegal work stoppages? MR. SPEAKER: That question can be placed on the Order Paper. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr.

Speaker, would the Premier inform the House if he is serious or if he was on a bad trip yesterday when he announced that Newfoundlanders are going to be invited to come back to Newfoundland to fill the vacant jobs in Newfoundland when we have thirty-six thousand Newfoundlanders unemployed in this province? MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member can put that on the order paper. If the Premier wish to answer it, he may. MR. MOORES: Only in this capacity, Mr.

Speaker, that skilled . jobs in Newfoundland are difficult today to find people to fill them.as the four hundred outstanding jobs in Lahrador City verify, certainly, I can understand the concern of the member for Bell Island, because those people, a great number of people who moved from Bell Island to the mainland, I can understand why the honourable member would not .:I want them back. They are used to pros~erity and they could not stand too much of the honourable member for Bell Island. MR. NEAR:Y: On the contrary. I would welcome them back, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR.

NEARY: I would welcome them back, Mr. Speaker, and all other 848

February 15, 1974, Tape 250, Page 3 -- apb Newfoundlanders. MR. SPr.:Al(ER: Order please! MR. NEARY: Rut, Sir, it seems to me to be rather foolish- AN HON. MEMBER: The honourable member is out of order. MR. NEARY: What is out of order? AN HON. MEMBER: The honourable member is making a speech. MR. ROBERTS: He is asking a question~ MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR. NEARY: Sir, I am asking the Premier if it makes any sense at all. Does it make any sense to start a programme when you can train people in Newfoundland, when we have the College of Trades and Technology and the vocational Schools.

Is it possible to train Newfoundlanders who are unemployed in Newfoundland to fill these . .jobs that the Premier "is talking about? AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NEARY: Partially? Mr. Speaker, the Premier must have had a bad day yesterday. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR, NEARY: Mr, Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Justice just what he intends to do about a letter that I wrote him on February 11, concerning a commission of enquiry into the resignation of William P.Saunders? MR. SPEAKER: That question can be placed on the Order Paper. MR, NEARY: !t is an urgent matter, Mr. Speaker. HR.

SPEAKER: The question can be placed on the Order Paper, HR. NEARY: We are not going to get any answers, I can see that, Kr. Speak.er. 849

1-'ebruary 15, 1974 Tape 251 IB-1 MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations just what steps the government have taken to do away with the ex--parte injunction as was promised by this administration sevenil times last session of the House. MR. SPEAKER: That should be placed on the Order Paper. MR. NEARY: Do we not get any answers at all, Sir? MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the honourable the Premier.

Did the honourable Premier meet with the hospital committee from Bonavista yesterday at Bonavista and if he did, could he give us a report of that meeting? HON. F.D. MOORES (PREMIER): Mr. Speak~r, the answer is no,I did not. I am meeting with them tomorrow, not yesterday. When I do meet with them, I am sure that they will be as competent and as willing to give the report as I will be, as basically as any other committee to find out the needs of the area. I will be with the member for the district at that time. We will be talking about the various problems, what the government policy is.

That is the way it should be. I do not know where the member from Bonavista North got the information that it was yesterday, Mr. Speaker, but - }IR. ROBERTS: From a letter written by the honourable gentleman from Bonavista South. MR. MOORES: That we met yesterday1 HR ROBERTS: No, that it would be yesterday. That the Premier would be in Bonavista yesterday. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Stand up, Sir. MR. ROBERTS: I would be glad to stand up and say it, Mr. Speaker. ~ The gentleman from Bonavista South. I am informed, made . , l a commitment to people in Bonavista t~at the Premier would meet with them yesterday.

I understood he said it. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker 1 as usual the honourable Leader of the Opposition does not have his facts correct. MR. SPEAKER: Order. please: This is the oral question period and the 850

February 14, 1974 Tape 251 IB-2 honourable n1ember for llonavista South is not per.mitted at this time to reply to the statement just made, MR, THOMS: Mr. Speaker, just before we leave Orders of the day, is it my understanding that the Premier will be meeting with this committee tomorrow? MR, PREMIER: No. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: I can believe it when you say no, MR, SPEAKER: Order, please: On motion of the Hon. Minister of Justice, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act," read a first t_ime, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon.

Minister of Forestry and Agriculture, a bill, "An Act To Bring Certain Forest Lands Under Proper Management And To IJllpose Varying Degrees Of Taxation In Respect Thereof," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon, Minister of Education, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Department Of Education Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon. Minister of Education, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Education (Teacher Training) Act," read a first time. ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon.

Minister of Education, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The College Of Fisheries Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. · 85J.

February 15, 1974 Tape no. 252 Page 1 - MW On motion of the Hon. Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environpient, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Pesticides Control Act," read a first time, ordered read a seco11d time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon. Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Insurance Adjusters Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon.

Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Department Of Provincial Affairs And Environment Act, 1973," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon. Minister of Social Services, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Social Assistance Act, 1971," read a . first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon, Minister of Social Services, a bill,

An Act To Amend The Maintenance Orders (Enforcement) Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. MR. SPEAKER: Order (lithe Address in Reply, I think the Hon. Minister of Forestry and Agriculture adjourned the debate the last day. HON. E. MAYNARD (Minister of Agriculture and Forests): Mr. Speaker, I do not want to take up too long a time of the valuable time of the honourable House. I would like to make a few comments rer,arding the Throne Speech and the district I represent in general. Mr. Speaker 7 I listened yesterday afternoon to a very lengthy Epeech, so-called, from the Hon.

Member for Bonavista North. I encouraged my colleague the House Leader to let him continue for an extra twenty minutes to see if he would say anything. Unfortunately, . : t in the two hours, I did not hear on~;thing said. It is very hard to comment on rambling comments and a lot of shouting. It is unfortunate because two hours of the House's time was wasted. However, I had the pleasure, Mr. Speaker, yesterday of introducing or making a policy statement on the forest resources of asi

February 15, 1974 Tape no. 252 Page 2 this province. It was a distinct privilege and I considered it an honour that I am representing the department that has put a great deal of time into devising the new management policy. I would submit to the House that this new policy in forestry is the greatest thing that 853

Fehuruary 15, 1974 Tape No, 253 NM - 1 has been done in this province for a long time and of course it is one step in a whole chain of events, the government getting more involved in tlli? resource management f:f elcl as such. It is interc~t1ng to note the honourable member from Bell Island, when he spoke in the Throne Speech clebate, saying that the forest policy was an extension of the great Liberal programme. I have been wondering for a long time now where this famous Liberal prograimne was, However,at that time the honourable member did not even know what the policy was.

I finally came up with the great Liberal programme. One of my colleagues happened to get a copy of the Hansard, or the House of Assembly debates, March 28, 1968, thirty-four pages of Hansard all here, thirty-four pages on a supposed new great forest policy. AN HON. MEMBER: The clay of the mass, MR. MAYNARD: 1968, that is the day of the mass and all the history of people who have been involved, Dr. Mooney and General so~and-so and all this sort of thing. It should have been interesting to be in the House at that time, to have a look at the performance the honourable gentleman must have put on.

I understand you adjourned the debate, Mr. Speaker; you must remember it quite well. However, I have read this thirty-four pages two or three ti.mes and I still cannot for the life of me figure out what the honourable gentleman was talking about, with the exception that he pointed out that there was a lot of wood on the island,as well we knew. He pointed out that there were two mills on the island; that we already knew. He pointed out that in order somebody had to go and cut it; th~t Ji already I could not figure out what was going on. to get wood to the mill knew.

Apart from that In any case, you will note the date, March 28, 1968, the government introduces a motion on a new forest policy. I wonder what happened then? It was three and a half years from that time until the time new r,overrunent took over and that is the last we ever heard of it. I guess they thought it was too hot for them to 854 .,.

February 15, 1974 Tape No. 253 NM - 2 ever hear of it. I guess they thought it was too hot for them to handle. They had to drop it like a hot potato. So the ground work that was mentioned by the honourable member from Bell Island when we took over was very little. It was non-existent. There was no ground work. In essence, Mr. Speaker, there was no forestry service, because for two years the past administration had not even bothered to appoint a chief forester for the province. The few people, very competent people who were on the staff, were in a state of flux.

They wondered what to do, where to do, when they were going to get some direction. lt was quite a shemozzle and shows how lax the previous government was in its relation to natural resources and especially to forest resour.ce, the resource that is extremely valuable to this province, and will become much more valuable in the future. It is absolutely necessary, Mr. Speaker, that government become involved in the proper management and utilization techniques of the forest resource.

It is estimated by experts that with the present method of harvesting, if it be allowed to continue, that our mills, three mills now on the island, will run out of a wood supply in perhaps thirty to thirty-five years, run out of merchandable timber. That is with the present methods of narvesting, That is a pretty bleak future. We are going to completely destroy the resource in th:l:rty to thirty-five years.

It is pretty obvious then, I do not know how many jobs you would be talking about in total, I suppose 3,000 or 4,000 directly employed,and the spin-off from forest industry is estimated at two-and-a-half and you are talking about ~ an industry right now that represents $160 n1illion per year in the gross provincial product, 855

February 15, 1974 Tape 25-4 PK - 1 It is not one that you cnn fihove aside. With the proper managemc:nt techinqucs, with the proper seeding, reforestation, fertilizat1on and all the other technicalities that go with it,we can have a forest resource, have a wood supply for any number of years, in perpetuity. Not only that,we can have the mills we have now and an expanded sawmill industry and perhaps a couple of years down the road we just might find a supply for another mill. I do not know1that is something that we will have to take a careful look at.

Certainly the resource is there, all it needs is some rational management. It is vitally important that government do this. Obviously we cannot leave the management to the operating co~panies. That has been made pretty clear to us. You cannot really blame the companies I suppose,because they "Want to make a profit. They want to make a quick dollar. But you have to weigh that against the fact that we look at the end of a very jmportant industry. Government,very correctly, very properly have made a decision that we cannot allow that to happen.

Now, of course, it took some time to put the pieces of the puzzle together because there was very . little infonnation on which to work. our staff, the forest service staff at the time that we took over were generally concerned with the forest fire· suppression. They were doing a global invento_ry of the forest resource, trying to piece some information together with a bit of technical information that we had and the federal people had.

We had to appoint a task force and the opposition I am sure does not like plannin~ and studying and this sort of thing but I think the policy that we outlined yesterday is a good example of what planning does do and the importance of planning. We brought together a task force comprised of what you might call ~t a "Who's Who" in the forest service, industry, governments and consultant fields all across North America.

Forty-five person, not persons who were theoretical, who "'ere thinking with their head in the clouds all of the time, persons who were actually involved in forestry and knew in great detail what they were talking about. They produced 856 1',

Fehruary 15, 1974 Tape 254 PK - 2 niue volumes, formed in nine committees, produr:ed nine volumes; whicl, is perhaps the grea test and important amount of information that has ever been put together for the Newfoundland forest . The nine volumes, of course, will not be distributed to the public but the resum/ of the nine volum es,which is the final general report,will be as soon as the printers are finished with it. This information will be l'\Vailable to people who are working in the department. It is there for them to refer to at any time.

It will be quite valuable to them in the years to come in implementing a policy,in carrying out this policy . We are looking at perhaps three years but we would hope the three years will be ma.ximum to totally implement the policy as outlined yesterday. Honourable members .can already see that the legislation is being place d on the table of the House of Assembly . The legislation that is being presented now relates only to the large landholders or large companies that have long 857

February 15, 1974 Tape no. 255 Page l - MW tenure agreements coing back some forty or fifty years ego. Othe~ anwnclment:I' to the Crown Lauds Act, Timber R,1gulntion1;, wnt be presented. It will enable government to apply the management policy to all the province. We are not going to attempt to do something with the companies, apply a policy to them that we would not apply to anyone else. Every one will be treated alike but, of course, the method of enforcing the policy has to be sor~ewhat different.

We could I suppose have taken the action that has been suggested on various occasions in nationalizing the industry but that is not a very appropriate thing to do. It does not create a very favourable imagine for the province rtor for the country that does it. We decided that that was out and besides it is not necessary becauf•e we can achieve the same aim by going in another route · Secondly the provj ,nce cannot afford to expropriate nor nationalize. You have to pay compensation.

There is no way this province could come up - I do not know what the value of the trees on the limit holdings would be at this time, but we are talking around 70,000,000 cords and if you put a minium of $2.00 per cord value, it would be around $140,000,000 or $150,000,000 that the province would have to shell out for expropriation. I think it was suggested some years ago that this is what the province, of course, would take. It is absolutely out of the question. It ia not necessary. The ta5k force took a look at this sort of thing and recommended against it.

You can achieve the same thing by using the two-level method of taxation. It was very, very simply described on one radio programme, I think yesterday,as the carrot and the stick. It is very appropriate. sure that they carry out We will in the case of :' f the proper '~echniques. the companies make We will work with them and with the Federal Forestry Service to develop new technology. There are twelve per cent of our forests that are on slopes greater than thirty per cent, for instance, which we have to try and harvest. 858

February 15, 1974 Tape no, 255 Page 2 There is one method now that seems to work fairly well. although the economics of it are not all that good, There are other methods being developed. I would think that there is a possibility that methods could be developed right here in this province, maybe not by people in the province and maybe that could happen as well, Certainly, we have the terrain here to develop techniques in slope logging. It is necessary that we do so. All this is very important to the future of the industry as such.

There were some comments made by one of the honourable members of the opposition that the access road programme was an extension of the Liberal policy, which was very interesting I thought. In 1971 there was a total of $50,000 spent on access roads in the province, Now, Mr. Speaker, that must have been enough to fill in a couple of potholes, dig a couple of ditches and possibly build a mile of road. That is about as far as it went.

Anyone that could call that a programme would have to be using a tremendous amount of imagination, Anyway I suppose there are some people who call anything a programme, On the other hand, Mr. Speaker, we have brought in an access road programme. Last year we spent in excess of $2 million on roads to open up the forest resource in the province. Now a lot of people may say; why are we spending money on access roads? What is the benefit of it? It is money going out of the public treasury. ls it doing any good?

Well we certainly think so, By opening up the resource on the crown limits around the island and in Labrador, we are allowing people to go in with their sawmills and harvest the timber and employ fi\ur or five men, Some of them ~, employ more. That access roads programme, coupled with the tremendous work being done by my colleague, the Minister of Rural Development, has·created a large number of jobs in the ' forest industry in this province in the past couple of years. We have built the roads and rural development has provided the funding to help the people get 859

February 15, 1974 Tape no. 255 Page 3 star t ed again and, of course, they have gotten started and have done tremendously well at it. This programme will contJ.nue. I do not know how much money we will have for access roads this year but it will certainly be a substantial amount and the policy will continue. We hope to build perhaps one hundred miles of road per year for five or six years, until we can open up most of the now inaccessible timber stands.

The new policy to be brought in will also create a great deal of employment, We pointed out that there are seven or maybe eight locations around the province where we can establish, not we but people can establish fairly large sawmills. These sawmills are estimated to be able to produce or the areas are eF-timated to be able to produce sixty-five million to seventy mi.Ilion board feet a year. 'Ibey will employ five to six hundred people. That is direct employment. If you take the multiplier effect, two and a-half, then you are talking about a substantial number of jobs.

The other effect of that, of course, is that we will not have to import any more than fifteen to twenty per cent of our lumber from outside the province, which we were doing up until last year. With the access roads programme and the rural development programme, the situation was improved considerably in 1973. I do not have the actual statistics but I understand that we are producing probably about fifty per cent of our needs now or forty-five to fifty per cent, which is a large improvement over the twenty-five to thirty per cent in previous years.

There is no reason why, with Newfoundland's timber resource and once the proper management cycle is instituted in the growth of the ~j trees and proper harvesting methods, · that we may be in an· export position as far as lumber is concerned. We have always iiaported a certain amount because of the fact that our trees are not large enough to produce the large dimensional lumber that is necessary in some construction, That is a very minor problem. 860

February 15, 1974 Tape no. 255 Page 4 Tne hardwood industry is one that has a lot of interesting prospects. Right now the Scandanavian Countries are running out of hardwood. They use a considerable amount of it; press board. plywood and manufacturing. They are looking very ·closely at the hardwood stands on this island . We had hoped to have some experiments done on our hardwood stands to see what the quality was this year. That has not been done yet but we are still searching for markets, not only in Scandanavia but also in Canada and the United States.

The demands for furniture components in the Eastern United States indicate to us that we will be able to sell hardwood for that. There is even one person who is interested in making cigar tips and golf tees out of our hardwoods. Surprisingly enough, out of very small _items, we would use about seventy-five hundred cords of wood a year. That is a lot of cigars. However, there are vast possibilities and our department and the Department of Industrial Development are now pursuing a campaign of letting the potential users of hardwood in North America and in Europe know what the potential of the province is.

We are willing to work out some kind of a deal to get that wood harvested. What we want to see, of course, is tha.t if it is at all possible,to have the finished products done right here in Newfoundland. In that way you get all of the benefits by means of jobs. We would like to see if our hardwood is suitable for plywood manufacturing and we see no reason why it is not. up here to manufacture We would like to see a plywood plant set the plywood /right here · in Newfoundland. .) I a:m sure that with the dwindling supply of hardwood in other areas, we could probably convince somebody to do this. Mr.

Speaker, in any case, it is estimated that we can harvest 250,000 861

February 15, 1974, Tape 256, Page 1 -- apb cords per year of hardwood in the province. A lot of this hardwood would he harvested in conjunction with the softwood op£·ration. For the past years the softwood have been extracted, the hardwood has bej:!n left standing, moRtly white and yellow birch, 'and in a very few years, of course, it rots and falls down. That was perhaps necessary at the time when there were very few markets available although, I think, if the companies had actively pursued a market for the hardwood they would have found it and I think we can find them in the future.

In any case, the harvesting of hardwoo~ is certainly going to be a part of the overall management and utilization policy. Since I outlined the government policy yesterday- AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR.MAYNARD: Yes, that is a good idea. Maybe someone could supply birch junks to the users in town.

An interestinr, notd, I had a person in my o[fice a few days ago who wants to manufacture fire­ place logs, the type that we now have to buy from California, He anticipates that he could take the residue from probably half the small sawmills in Newfoundland and manufacture these synthetic, I suppose you would call them, fireplace logs, Right now I do not feel like buying them and using them in my fireplace because somebody might drop in and say; "Look at the Minister of Forestry" and think I was crazy, but they are practically the only thing you can burn.

Of course if somebody is interested in manufacturing them, certainly this government is interested in giving them every encouragement we can. It would not only be another prodl!Ct that is manufactured in Newfoundland, it would help to fully utilize the total tree after it is cut. To continue on with one o~her?lpect of my department, before I get into a few comments about my district; the agriculture programme. Last year the new ARDA programme was signed with the federal government a fifty-fifty cost-sharing arrangement. It has been working very well.

Unfortunately it was a little bit late in the year ~hen the programme was signed, it took some while to gear up for the administration 862

February 15, 1974, Tape 256, Page 2 -- apb of the programme but it has been going very well. This year or 1973, we made commitments of clo"e to one mill ton dollars in grants to farmers around the province. These r,rants are - some of the:11 are ten thousand dollars some of them go up to tw,mty thousand dollars, depending on the amount of land to be cleared over a period of time, depending on the buildings to be built. It is proving to be a very successful programme.

The interest in farming agricultural products in Newfoundland is increasing. ,feople are finding that in' many· areas of agriculture in Newfoundland it is possible to make a living, it is possible to provide jobs to other people. Over the next few years we are going to see much greater activity in the agricultural field. On thing that we have to look at very carefully is good agricultural land now lying idle. We have to find some way of bringing that back into production.

There is a lot of land of that kind, especially on the western part of the island, which is very good agricultural land and can support either root crops or dairy farming. It is now lying idle. For the most part we do not know who the owners are or where they are. We are going to have to take some action to put lands of that kind back into production again, One of my colleagues on this side. I believe the member for St. John's South, mentioned the land freeze,as everybody wants to call it, around the St. John's Area, I tried to explain , on numerous occasions that it is not a land freeze.

We declared a land development area by which means we hope to protect as much as possible good agricultural land. That does not indicate that the land is frozen. Since the land development area has been declared by government, I approved, perhaps . tvo hundred permits fo.r buildings of various kinds. The only difference now than~ln the past is that the application, if it is in that area, has to come to my department for approval or rejection. If it is an application made to put up a shopping ceotet or an apartment complex or something else on agricultural land or land that class 4-3-2 for agriculture, then 863

February l?, 1974, Tape 256, Page 3 -- apb certainly we are going to reject the permit or reject the application. I think that is fair. We had a lot of fanJers over the years complaining about the fact that they were losing good farm land. They j~st could not stay in business because of the pressures applied from developers and from the towns in general eating away at tne land. They wanted something done about it and we did. We will review in total the land development area in the coming spring.

We have to do quite extenrdve on-the-ground surveys, and soil sampling to determine exact areas that have good agricultural potential and areas that can be left out of the land development area, We have no intention of having land under our control or see no reason why it should be under our control if it is not related in any way to agriculture. Other aspects of the department: Right now we are working on the possibilit;l.es of reviving what was once a very large industry in the province, localized around the various outports and towns but still very important,and that is sheep raising.

Last year we were the first province or first government in Canada to bring in an insurance policy on livestock, That insurance policy was related to sheep by farmer paying a very small amount per head ai:id would be compensated a certain amount, twenty-five or thirty dollars, whatever the value of the sheep,if it were killed by predators of some kind. We were the first

section in Canada to bring in any kind of live­ stock insurance programm~ and I am happy to say that the federal government has now taken a look at this and will probably participate in livestock insurance programmes to be applied to all livestock, Certainly the other provinces are looking at it and saying that if the federal government do not participate on the same basis as they d ith th 1 th,fn most f th i 111 ow e crop nsurance agency, ~ o e prov nee w have their own scheme. AN RON, MEMBER: Is this dogs toot MR, MAYNARD: Yes. Dogs, Lynx any kind of predator. They are also 864

February 15, 1974, Tape 256, Page 4 -- apb thinking about insuring livestock against other disease factors. It is ·important to the people who are in the livestock industry that they do have some protection. One of the reasons why the sheep industry went down in the province was because of dogs, roauiing dogs,and people found it impossible to keep om raising sheep and having hundreds of them killed by dogs. Most people, I suppose,will look at sheep raising and sort of shy away from it. I do not know how many honourable members are aware of the fantastic industry in sheep raising that has been built up in Iceland.

They have a very good breed of shcep,mostly for wool purposes but it is very valuable to their economy. As a matter of f~ct, fishing and sheep raising are the only two things they have. 1 look at all the areas that we have around Newfoundland where sheep forage can be grown and I am sure that we can or we should be able to rear sheep as well as Iceland where there is relatively no grazing land. We certainly have to take a look at their methods to see how they do it, to see whether there is an exotic breed that can be brought in to Newfoundland to suit our climate and topography.

It was proven a few years ago,interestingly enough, that la111b grown in Newfoundland had the best texture and quality of lamb grown anywhere in North America. For some reason that was not fully explained, either because of the type of soil that we have or the t}'Jle of climate that we have, the lamb had a much better quality and there is nicer texture to it, so there are possibilities there. Since Canada 865

February 14, 1974 Tape 257 IB-1 only produces approximately four per cent of the lamb that it consumes. There is certainly plenty of market for it. I think that this province would have to take a very careful look at reviving the sheep industry in general. Another interesting prospect we are looking at in the agriculture industry is the possibility of exporting hog breeders, hogs for breeding purposes. We have a unique situation in Newfoundland where we can have a totally disease-free hog industry because of the fact that we can control hogs being brought into the province.

We have imposed controls on livestock coming into the province now. They must have a veterinarian's certificate. We can control it in total, If we were to have or raise disease-free hogs in this province, there are countries such as Cuba which we have found out are very, very interested in buying the hogs from us. We have been working with the Department of Industry, Trade and Commerce to try to develop that industry. I think we will get it off the ground. We do have probably the most disease-free livestock population now anywhere in Canada. The advantage of being on an island of course plays a big

part in that victiry, because you certainly have a few ports of entry and you can easily control what is being shipped through those ports. So, in general the agriculture ~utlook is good. I am quite happy with the moves that have been made. I realize fully and I think all honourable members realize that we are not going to please everyone. We are not going to get a programme that is going to suit every individual but in general the programmes that we have are good. The programmes that Newfoundland offers to farmers and prospective farmers right now is as good as anywhere in Canada.

I can say that without fear of contradiction. :J Another aspect of the department; the Crown Lands Division is now being completely revamped. More staff is being added and a new system of registration and dealing with applications is being brought in. It is going to take some time to do this but it is 866

February 14, 1974 Tape 257 IB,-2 certainly necessary. I can understand the frustrations of the public who over the years have had to make an application to Crown Lands and have found that it took a wait of maybe two years, in some cases, sometimes longer, to get an application through. Of course, all the members of the House of Assembly, especially my colleagues on this side, have certainly made known to me their frustrations but there was very little that could be done about it because the staff in the Crown L~nds Division was es3entially about the same rtumber as was there in 1935 or 1940.

They were attempting to handle between ten and twenty times as many applications per year. They were attempting to cope with an outdated registration system. There was just no way that there could be an efficient operation. We have now set the wheels in motion to revise the whole system, to make it more efficient and within a six month period we are hoping that we can deal with Crown Land applications in a maximum of seven to eight weeks.

If we can do that, it will be a great advantage to the public and I am sure that they will be quite happy to know that their applications will not be sitting in the dust for a couple of years. The staff that are in the Crown Lands Division are very competent and they worK very hard at it but there is just no way of coping with it under the present ~ystem. So, obviously the system has to be changed. That is one of the major projects in my department over the next six months as well as the Agriculture and the Forest Policy,of course. MR. F. ROWE: Inaudible. MR. MAYNARD: Sure. MR. F.

ROWE: Does this have to do with building permits as well on the Crown Lands or do you have to involve departments of the government, ~t Health Departmer.t and this sort of thing? MR. MAYNARD: No. The actual building permit would still have to be obtained from Municipal Affairs or the Town Council or whatev~r. However, 867

February 14, 1974 Tape 257 IB-3 in the past one of the stumbling blocks has been that if a person made an application for Crown Land, the application was referred to something like sixteen different agencies, Each agency took its own merry time, sometimes six months, to reply back. So, Crown Lands has got the application thP.re. The person is coming in and complaining to Crown Lands that they cannot get it through and in the meantime it is over in Municipal Affairs or it is over in wildlife or somewhere.

What we are going to do now is refer the application to all departments at the same time, all agencies,and they will have a thirty day time limit to respond to the application. If we do not hear from the department within thirty days, we will automatically assume that it is okay with them and therefore we can process the remainder through.

We have to do that because there is no way - I am not saying that the other departments are ineffici ,ent or anything but it is just that when you get a pile of paper in and you have to take a look at them, they sometimes gets lost in the shuffle and approving or rejecting an application in Wildlife,say where someone wants to build a house, is not something that comes at the top _of their list, their priority list. We will have to take the other system where there is a time on it. Now, of course there are areas where that cannot be done in some cases.

For instance, the Department of Health could not inspect the land in the wintertime ,but we would expect the Department of Health inspectors to r~ply back and tay that they cannot do the inspection now but will do it at such and such a date,and therefore we can advise the party who is making the application, There are a lot of things that are obvious that can be done . ~i which are not going to cost a great deal of money, However, the increase in staff, say approximately twenty people altogether, will cost a bit of money, but it is certainly going to be worth it to the general public. 868

February 15, 1974 Tape 257 IB-4 The one other

section of my department which I had the honour of taking over when I assumed the role of Minister of Forestry and Agriculture was the responsibility for Grose Horne which affects me now in more ways than one. It is not only a departmental responsibility but I am happy to say that the great Grose Mornc area is in the district that I represent. The Grose Mome Park Development is now well under ,way. It was in a state of flux for a great number of years. People did not know whether it was going to be developed or whether it was not going to be developed.

A so called memorandum of agreement was signed in 1970, There was still no action taken on it, I might point out a comment from an honourable member on the other side, that the Grose Morne was an extension, what we are ~oing is an extension of the great Liberal Policy, Well. I will admit that the Liberals thought it up.

I will also admit that the Liberals signed an agreement to exterminate or eliminate, whatever you want, _ five or six communities within that area, One of the frustrations that we had to face, when we took over government, was trying to change the Federal Government's attitude towards this and trying to get them to sign a new agreement. I must say that the first time we met with the Minister of Indian Affairs in Ottawa on this matter and asked him to change the agreement so that these communities could stay, he was pretty arrogant about it, very arrogant.

I thought we were going to get kicked out of his office; Myself and the honourable Mr. Doody were there. Eventually,with enough proddin~ · and complaining, trips to Ottawa, meetings in his office, calling the people in here, over a period of a year-and-- a-half 869

February 15, 1974 Tape No. 258 NM - 1 we finally got him to thange his t~ind as far as elimination of the communities were concerned anG they were allowed to stay. There were certain restrictions which we did not U.ke, we still do not like but we could not r:ct them chanr,ed. llowcvcr, I detect in the ' latest correspondence from the federal minister and talks with his officials that probably he is softening up a bit on this as well. This government is still hoping that we can salvage those communities providing they want to stay there. It is totally their option whether they stay or whether they move.

Right now, the restrictions on the communities, especially in the Sally's Cove Area, are a little bit harsh. We pointed this out to the minister. We have had correspondence with him lately on the subject, asked him to revise his thinking on it, to try to be a little bit more humane,if you will, · and I detect that he may be softening. We are still~hoping of course that we can say to those people; "Here we have completely reversed what the Liberal Gove.rnrnent tried to do to you back in 1970." MR. NEARY: What is the government up in Ottawa? Tory,is it? Tory Government up there? MR.

MAYNARD: A Liberal Government in Ottawa and a Liberal Government in Newfoundland tried to do to the people in 1970. MR. MURPHY: We will have the Tory Party before long, will we not? MR. MAYNARD: Pardon? MR. MURPHY: We will have the Tory Party before long. MR. MAYNARD: We will have the honourable member for Bell Island? MR. MURPHY: God forbid! MR. MAYNARD: I was just going to walk out of the House. want to be around. MR. NEARY: Carry on. MR. MAYNARD: Is he sure he wants me to carry on now? I did not MR. NEARY: It does not make any difference. Nobody is listening to him anyway. 870

Febru~ry 15, 1974 Tape No. 258 NM - 2 MR. }!AY.':ARD: Oh l see. Well I was not expecting thl' honourable member from Bell Island to listen to me but then again if I said anything, you know,- MR.NEARY: If he said anything, I might listen. MR. !-1AYNARD: It would go completely over h:ls head anyway. He would not understand it. However, the Grose Morne development is on the move. The people are now being employed. There are approximatley 150 people employed now on the development on the part, that is provincial and federal.

This summer will see art increase in that number and the development of that park area is going to be the basis of one of the most important industries on the western side of Newfoundland. It will be a tremendous industry, tremendous boost to tourism in this province. Certainly tourism is very important. MR. NEARY: Who are payine for it? MR. MAYNARD: The people of Newfoundland and the people of Canada are payinr, for the development. MR. NEARY: Uncle Ottawa. MR. MAYNARD: Uncle Ottawa is developing the park. We are developing the enclaves. If Uncle Ottawa develops it, so much the better.

After all it is the taxpayers money. You know Ottawa gets money from the taxpayers too. MR. NEARY: Well give them a bit of credit. Do they get any credit from the Tory Government. MR. MAYNARD: Oh where credit is due,they get credit. Where criticism is not due,_they do not get it, MR. NEARY: They are only paying 100 per cent of the cost. - Ai'i HON. MEMBER: So what? ;f MR. ,-r;ARY: So what. MR. MA~ARD: For the infomation of the honourable member it is a long way from 100 per cent of the cost, but they are participating financially certainly and it is to be expected that they would 871

February 15, 1974 Tape NO. 258 N~! - 3 partidpale fin.anCi:)lly in the development of a national park, secinR a national park is a federal responsibility. AN HO~. MEMBER: Wl1ich they do in every other province. MR . MAYNARD: \-lhich they do in every other province across Cnnacla. MR. NEARY: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER (~fR. STAGG): Order please. Honourable members, up to this point in the debate, have bee-n very tractable, however, I detect a certain air of untractability. Maybe honourable members wou1.d restrain themselves . MR. MAYNARD: To move on to other areas of the district, Mr .

Speaker, there is quite a bit of acnvity going on in my district that the district has revived over the las t couple of years . Road building is going ahead. For the first time on the Northern Peninsula 872

February 15, 1974 Tape 259 PK - 1 eventually we can see some pavement. More more money is going to be available next year to see more paving. I would like to see the Northern Peninsula Highway paved in total but I am afraid that is going to take a few years. I might as well be realistic about· it. However, we are working ort it, on the reconstruction for the paving and we are going to keep on working until it is done. AN HON.MEMBER.: Is that DREE money,by the way? MR. MAYNARD: It does not matter who spend• the money - MR. NF.ARY: It would not be Uncle Ottawa again,would it? MR.

MAYNARD: It does not matter to me who spends the money. I find that my car drives exactly the same on a highway that is built with federal money as it does on a highway built with provincial monies, surprisingly enough. MR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, that is the project we started, why does he not admit it? MR. MAYNARD: "What project you started? MR. NEARY: The reconstruction of the Great Northern Peninsula. HR. MAYNARD: They did not. MR. NE.ARY: We did so. MR. MAYNARD: They did not. The reconstruction of the Narthem Penineula Highway was not even thought about until we got at it. It was not even thought about. MR.

NEARY: Inaudible. HR. MAYNARD: I have to correct the honourable member regarding the fish plant - the government did not put any money into the fish plant in Port au Choix. MR. NEARY: Oh, yes they did. HR. MAYNARD: Oh, no · they did not. Well if the infamous Liberal Government, the past government,were so good,I am surprised that in the Bonne Bay Area of my district two years ago there were something like eighty per cent unemployment. Today that num~er has been cut down to not more than thirty per cent or thirty-five per cent. It is still high but it has been cut down quite a bit.

I am surprised that I had to drive through clouds of dust all the 873

February 15, 1974 Tape 259 PK - 2 from Deer Lake to St. Anthony,two years ago;

whereas by the end of this year there will be a su hstantial portion of that paved. I am surprised that the forest products mill was their doing. It surprjses me quite a bit .. However, I rnight point out, to get the industry revived and to get it on the RD ocain,this government also made some participation to the tune of $2 million and another few dollars now from the sale of the forest prodcuts thinr, in Stephenville which is indirectly helping out. If the other RDvernment w,~re so great ,I am very surprised that there ~ere no hospital services along that coast. HR. NEARY: Yes, there was at Norris Point. MR.

MAYNARD: No hospital services along the coast, Sir, with the exception of the Cottage Hospital in Norris Point. I am also very surprised that the former 'Minister of Health, now Leader of the Opposition, said in Port Saunders,at a public meetini, I helieve in 1970, and stated quite clearly in his estimation that we did not need any hospital serv:f.ces, I have people who are after me to back it up. Then of course when we started a small hospital at Port Saunders last year,he jumps up and says, "Oh, that was my idea." MR, NEARY: So it was. MR. MAYNARD: Bang! It was his idea!

I happened to be at the meeting with "Mr. Roberts" at that time when he indicated, both him and Dr. Thomas, from St. Anthony, that there was no need for hospital services, no need for them. However, we saw a need, there 1.s now - MR. NEARY: He did not say any such thi~g. MR. J-!.A YNARD : How does he know? He was not there. MR. NF.ARY: I know it ••• MR. MAYNARD: I know,! was there. MR. SPEAKER: (MR. STAGG): ,t Order, ple. .:ise ! The honourable membe~ for Bell Island has already spoken in the debate. I understand - MR. NEARY: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: (UR.

STAGr.): If the honourable member would permit - I understand by curiosity, in the procedures that day that he has the right 874

Februacy · 1s, 1974 Tape 259 PK - 3 to speak again in the debate. I would suggest to him that he might keev his remarks f or that time . HR. MAYNARn: Okay, Mr. Speaker, I suppose I am to assume that I can conti nue for a few more minutes with relative silence. However , I will see what happens, Sir, in the few minutes. In any case, Mr. Speaker, my district is on the move. There is a great deal of prosperity there now that has been brought about in the last coup le of years. The prosperity I am sure is goin8 to continue, There are some problems th~t have to be overcome. I will point out that two of the 875

Fehruary 15, 1974. Tape 260 RH - 1 b1gp,est prolilP.TT".s that exist in the district at this time, the lack of T. V. serv:f.ces to a number of communities and a completely outdated or outmoded telephone communication system. Both of these items you will note very carefully, are the responsibilites of Federal Government ap,encics. So, I am sorry if I offend someone but I just cannot give the Federal Government cn,di t where there is no credit due.

We have made numerous representations, official representations from Government reRarding the T.V. services up there but it seems that again the CBC has ignored the requests of Government and has indicated to us that the remainder of the coast that is not serviced has a very low priority rating which is surprisinp, because in 1969 or 1967 CBC at that time said that the coast was a high priority rating and they were working actively on providing the T.V. services.

However, in 1974,which is seven years later, we have not upgraded the status any, There are a few more communities that received coverage but the remainder of the communities have now been put on the low priority list. Why? I do not know. It is also surprising that re.presentations to Newfoundland's Minister and the Federal Cabinet regard­ ing this has met with a silence that is deafening, I do not know why that is so but it seems that we do not get any response on this par­ ticular matter, Telephone communications, again we have to request and we have requested CN to try to upP,rade their system.

It is almost impossible and it is not only in my district but on the whole Northern Peninsula, - i:.t is almost impossible to try to get a telephone call through. These are things that we have no control over but certainly we would appreciate it if the federal a~encies involved did take some notice of the fact that the services are relatively non-existent. ~ j A few short words on the Throne Speech before I close, Mr. Speaker, it has been described in various ways by honourable members in the Opposition as being empty and this sort of thing. I believe that the 876

February 15, 1974. Tape 260 RH - 2 Throne Speech indicated quite cl.early that Government j_ntended to take action on the various things that were necessary to take action on. I can refer ·specifically to the first part of the Throne Speech that said we would bring in legislation on forestry,and the legislation was brought in. It is the type of Throne Speech that indicates what Government is going to do in r,eneral detail and then we followed up with action.

There are no great promises in the Throne '.:peech because promises usually, in the majority, cannot be kept and will not be kept, So, we see no reason to go off the deep end as far as promises are concerned. We outlined in r,eneral what our policies will be, what the future will h&ld and then as indicated in forestry, we follow with positive action. This Government, Mr. Speaker, has revived this Province from the doldrums days of 1971 and previous, The Province is on the move, is becoming more prosperous,and I am quite sure, Mr.

Speaker, that the pr6spt'.!Tity will continue, there will be an increase in activity and this Province over the next few years will see some of the most positive action that has ever been seen in its history. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. ALLAN EVANS (Burgeo and LaPoile): Mr. Speaker, I would like to offer a few brief comments in the nddress in reply to the gracious Throne Speech which the Members opJ',osite have tried to downgrade as being barren, etc. Of course, it did not come out with any ear-shatter­ ing announcements. How could it when we are accomplishing major improvements in this Province every day 877

Fehruary 15, 1974 Tape No. 261 NH - l . I regret there are not too many of the opposition sitting over there at the present time. I suppose the mem!.,er from Bona.vista North is on his road patrol again. It l<'Ould ta1':.c a lot of blueberry wine, pardon me blueberry syrup he calls it, today to keep him warm. Mr. Speaker, I know it has been customary in the past to welcome a new member to this House. However, with the garbage coreing from that side, particularly from the member from White Bay North, I do not have the hc:art to wclccme the new member at this present time.

In fact I offer him my sincere sympathic-s as I do to the rest of the members of the House. I know it must be extremely trying to such mature and sincere men as the members from Twillingate and Fogo who have to sit there day after day listening to such unprincipled trash. Of course they know that their ordeal will be of short duration. There is more than a rumour that the Liberal Leadership is already moving south. However, there is doubt as to whether it will stop at White Bay South or over in an easterly direction, presumably headed for Springdale. Wherever it rests,I envy not the man who assumes it.

He had better choose a new name for the party as his first constructive move. No, do not cite Hermitage as an upsurge in the party fortunes. I have more personal knowledge of that district than anyone ~ere. I know every person there,you may say. AN HON. ME}IDER: Inaudible. MR. EVANS: No, no thank you. I have already received authentic reports that some of the leading Liberals in that district of long standing have already said at this early stage that they made a bad mistake in the ·by-election by voting Liberal. i Mr.

Speaker, we are being told daily by the opposition that we must cease to lay the blame for our ills on the former administration. What hypocrisy! Sir, the next ten generations of unborn children in this province will be paying for the ineptitude and neglect, and the name of Smallwood will be cursed forever by them. The present leader will not have that to worry about as he may be relegated to 878

Febru~ry 15, 1974 Tape No. 261 NM - 2 obl!.vion even before t he end of the year. I do not think he has accomplished anything that will enhance him to prosterity. Every- time he opens his mouth he becomes more ridiculous. For jnstance when the Premier announced the removal of the seven per cent tax on heating oil, he says, "It is not enough." No doubt he was contemplating fourteen. Last fall he came out with a statement that certain plants, including those in the Port aux Basques Area,should pay the same higher wage scale as the unionized plants. At that time the union rate had recently risen to $2.55 per hour.

He must have thought that $2. 75 per hour being paid in the Port-aux-Basques Area was less than $2.55. An abysmal ignorance of arithmetic, yet he pretends and is always saying he is educated. His education is just starting. We have heard so much criticism from that side concerning the new Welfare Programme. Let me say at the outset that many people, especinlly widows, have called me and thanked me for the great contribution that this Government has made in the improvement of their lot. We hear so much from the gentlemen opposite about the cut-off after the family reaches seven children.

Let me ask them one question: Does a man with ten children or even if he has twenty children receive greater earnings on a job than the man with one child or even none1 He certainly does not. I know the cost of living has advanced considerably, enormously, during the past year especially. We also know that welfare recipients cannot get everything they want with the present scale, the increased scale even. However, it is our intention to get as many of these unfortunate people, who are able to work, into the labour force, so that their families will have greater ""· opportunities in our province.

Now, Sir, let us have a look(tt the stand taken by the honourable the Premier at the Energy Conference. T~ese gentlemen opposite accuse him of placing us, the have-not province,as they call us, on the side of Alberta and Saskatchewan. What is wrong with that? They have not looked into the future far enough to imagine how silly we would look in the eyes of Canada and the rest of the world when ~e strike oil on 879

February 15, 1974 Tape No. 261 NH - 3 the Graurl ll;mks or on the Lal,r.1.dor, if our Prerni ,:r had not lwd tbe foresight am! the gut,- to !:afeguard our interestr; for that auspicious occasion. They think we ~;hould follow the.i r example nf the 880

Fehruary )5, 1974 Tape 262 PK - 1 past when dealing with OttawR, They were lH:e 11 hunch of ma11gey curs under the table waiting for a bone to be thrm-m their way, dven then their enjoym ent was ruined and they did not receive a resounding kick in the pants while scuttling off with it. Such servility will never be found in this party. Their idea of industry was spelled out as develop or perish. They damn well took care that they personally did not perish, even in spite of being broke - as they claim or some of them claim - they can manage to live in mansions 1 in such pleasant spots as Clearwater, etc.

Then Sir, we hear such startling announcements as ''Joey" is coming back on the political scene. "Only as leader ,11 he says. However, ho one seems to know who attempted to draft him except Castro and a few others from behind the Iron Curtain. Probably as a concession to them his next book will be titled 11 I Chose Cuba"or"I Chose China." Who knows? Mr. Speaker, AN HON. Ml-l-IBER: Inaudible. MR. EVANS: Pardon? AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, we have heard so much criticism of our lack of policy regarding the fishery.

Do you not think we are lucky to have any trace of the fishery remaining since our fishermen were told by the former government and its leader to burn their boats and forget the fishery? Of course we have not done nearly as much in this direction as we would have liked,not yet,but let me assure you that there is quite an improvement in my district during the past two years. Fishermen today receive thirteen cents per pound for cod, compared to about five cents when we took over,and wages on the plnnts have tr"ipled in that short ~) space in time.

Business generally has reflected these improvements and our fishermen and workers have unlimited confidence in the future. However, there is an area which ha~ to be controlled and that is the use of gill nets. The people of my district have already petitioned the 881

February 15, 1974 Tape 262 PK - 2 Fisheries Department in this rer,ard, I know by experience that this type of fishing is damnr,inr; our fishery more thµ.n all the draggers on the Continental Shelf, Mr. Speaker, we have heard much criticism of our rural development progratt>me. Such criticism is certai.nly unwarranted when that department has in so short a time created in the vici.nity of 2,000 jobs, with such a minimal cost per job. The minister and his staff are to be highly commended for the joh they are doing. I am certain that they will provj _de many more jobs in the corning yea.rs. Mr.

Speaker, I think I should say here that I resent very strongly the scurrilous remarks of the member from White Bay North on the Premier in his absence from the House. The case of the crackie yapping at the heels of the big dog. There is such a compall'ison between the two that he should pray ·every night to become at least a hundredth part of the man that our Hon. Premier is. It would probably do him a lot of good to lick the Premier's boots and compare him with the chap who filled the boots he and his colleagues licked for so many years.

He might realize that we have as Premier today a man down-to-earth,typical citizen of our province, a typical,real Newfoundlander, real,not something phoney, real, open and above board, who inspires confidence and devotion in those he leads, not by fear,as was the case with the former Liberal leader in this province. Regarding the recent conference on energy, a remark was made by a very reliablf: person from Quebec which bears repeating. He said, "What a ch_ange in such a short time.

Formerly you were represented at the conference of Premiers by someone who was a joke to the rest of the gathering, now you have a Premier who is looked to for advice by the other Premiers.• AN HON. MEMBER: Who said that? MR. EVANS: Who said it? AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. F:VANS: Oh, he has it, he got it on file. Re will not forget him either. Mr. Speaker, we have heard support from across the floor for the resolution advocating the financing of election campaigns from public 882

February 15, 1974 Tape 262 PK - 3 funds. No doubt it would be fine and dandy for the Liberal Party if they could say to thtdr creditors concerning their liabilities, which the member for White Bay North stated here on this floor a few days ago -was approximately half a million dollars. They will say, we are sorry but we will never be able to pay this debt, as public funding will not even suffice to pay for our current campaign expenses.

Sir, for my part,if the public did provide funds for my re-election, even if it took a million bucks, they would be repaid a hundredfold by the service I have provided and will continue to in the future. However, I feel that some of the members they could elect, I will not say they will, but they could elect , over on that side, would not be any bargain even if they got them for a dime a dozen. I wonder too, if they realize that public funding would enable the N.D.P. to field a man in every district, thus making certain a third-place finish for the Liberal Party in the next election. Mr.

Speaker, we have just signed a new ten year agreement with DREE. This new agreement is a major step forward. Previously the government of the day took what fun<ls they could get and they spent them only in the areas which were designated by DREE as being special. A lot of areas in our province got nothing on this account, especially in regard to infrastructure. Now . any area can benefit through DREE, which will be a great source of satisfaction to many of our people; who will again recognize the fact that this is a government for all the people of our province wherever they may U.ve. Mr.

Speaker, we have heard much about the Education Department regarding the building of DREE schools. It was a lack of foresight on the part of the former administration in building schools too costly . to maintain by us. We will not get involve .d in such a hare-breined ' : ~ reas~~ssing of our position_ in this scheme in the future. A lot of regard is requj.red.

As for our cutback on the student grants-in--aid, that was caused by the policy of our predecessors when they played Santa Claus to the students from all over the world, All their parents had to do was rent an apartment here long enough to establish the residency factor thus making their sons or daughters eligible for a student grant -- 883

February 1S, 1974 Tape 262 PK - 4 and for a while even to he paid while attending univer~ity here. What n;ign,in~mity from a province that was going a begging to Ottawa every day, AN IION. MEMBER: Inaudible. HR. EVANS: A lot of students were like that. AN JION. MF.MBF.R: Inaudible. MR. EVANS: Yes. You are not an import,are you? As for the deficit being experienced today by many of our school boards,- AN HON. MEMBER: He was exportcct ..•••• MR. EVANS: They would not. He is not worth it. AN HON . MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. EVANS: Chalk that up to the same bunch of Simple Simons.

Many of the schools closed by them in favour of bussing should be open today, when the trend everywhere is in favour of the smaller schools which preserves the identity between pupil and teacher and can be operated much cheaper than a bus system. This should be the subject of a major review as soon as possible. AN HON. MEMBER: This is another bit of hypocrisy. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, I thought we had been subject to the full treatment in regard to inane or asinini suggestions, but that brought forward by the men1ber for White Bay North 011 Friday past regarding what he terms as the mysterious resignation of Mr.

Saunders in 1972, with all his snide remarks and innuendoes takes top rating. No doubt he is suffering from a delusion that . this caused the defeat of his party in the subsequent election. I am wondering what excuse he will have to offer for the complete annihilation of his party in the next election.

Probably it would be more in order if some enquiries were instituted as to how he and some of his colleagues were elected in ,i October 1971,' when they even paved ca~bage patches and in one instance it was reported from the Northern Peninsula that in their haste to have the paving done before polling day they even paved a mile of premature ice surface on a pond. 884

February 15, 1974 Tape 262 PK - 5 Hr. Si>eakcr, the member from Hermitage has come out nnd decreed wha.t he ,calls lack of leader,;hip in our party. I.et me reassure him right here and now that no member of our party has com,~ out in puhJ ic calling our leader a dammed fool as W8S done by m(!mbcra of his pnrty when their leader's name was brought up at the reception follow1nr, the opening of the House on January 27. AN RON. MF.MBER: What year? MR. EVAMS: Th1.s year. We have the best leadership thiR province has ever had.

They in the opposition cannot realize that a party can have leadership without having a dictatorship, as .was the cas~ in that party from 1949-1972. Now,they are the leaderless party. Then, Mr. Speaker, on Monday past, the fledgling, the rookie, the orphan,who had to go to Hermitage to be adopted as he could not make a dog catcher in Green BaY, comes on open-line trying to downgrade men like myself, over here. I repeat, men who have proved thetnBelvee in all fields, who have been in situations time and again where he would have bawled his little heart out and given up.

Up to now he has not even qualified for a third-rate idiot. If he thinks he is going to stand there and preach,he will find a congregation that says more than Amen. Kr. Speaker, the member for White Bay South stated that we are trying to take credit for Confederation, which he says we played no

part in bringing about. I would like to remind him that I was a strong supporter of Confederation as was a great majority of the people in my district, AN HON. MEMBER: •••• Joey's party? MR. EVANS: Many of whom had always been P.C. I would also like to remind him of the fact that if the Government in Ottawa in 1949 had been P.C., Smallwood would have b~en J _. c.,which would have forced me to 885

February 15, 1974. T3.pe 263 RH - 1 break generations of family traditjon and vote liberal. Mr. Speaker, as for the Member from Bell Island we have J.onr. ago recopnized his actinr, ability, that is locally, but r have just been in­ formed that Disneyland is interested in him. As a matter of fact it has been suggested that they intend to film a new version of the Three Little Pigs, and are about to offer him a triple role. There is certainly no doubt as to his ability to perform, Mr.

Speaker, if the previous administration had accomplished as much in ten years as we have in the last year, they would have been Gods forever, they would not be over there. The more we do the more childish ' criticism we receive , from them. I hope no one ever loses sight of the fact ·that it is not two years ago that this Government was elected with a commanding majority and the people who supported us then have even more reason to support us now.

The hollering we hear is coming from a few disgruntled hangers on who probably would have h.Rd the same open criticism of the former administration if they had not been too afraid to voice their feelings publicly. Sir, not long ago the member from White Hay North gave the l!ledia a breakdown of the salaries and allowances of each and every member of this honourable House. He· recited the~e figures as though he had never seen or heard of them before, giving the impression that he was suffering from shock which no doubt he is, but for another reason.

He omitted to state that when the proposed increase was being discussed last year, he · advocated $18,000.00 plus allowances as the desired salary for the M.H.A. 's AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go onl MR. EVANS: He did. Oh, yes. I hope he does not have the gall 0 to .! d~ny this, as it can be contradicted by ~~meone whose creditability is .J rated much more highly than his own. AN RONOURABL.E MEMBER: Wanted $18,000.00 a year. An executive,was it? 886

February 15, 1974. Tape 263 RH - 2 MR, EV.il~lS: That is all. That was cost-plus. Mr, Speaker, I think that just about concludes the observation I wish to make at this time. I trust that this session will be very productive and that this will be one of the greatest years ever for our Province, particularly for Burgeo - LaPoile. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Grand Falls. MR. AUBREY .T. SENIOR: . Mr. Speaker, I have a few comments in the Address· in Rer, .y to the gracious Speech from the Throne. Before I get into my co~ments, there are a few formalitie~ which I would like to take care of.

First of all, I would like to welcome the new member to this hon­ ourable House, the member for the district of Hermitage who· was recently elected. Also, I would like to congratulate the mover and seconder of the Address in Reply. I congratulate them on their fine speeches. I have listened, Mr. Speaker, with great interest, to the many speeches that have been made in this particular session, especially in the Address in Reply.

It seems that according to tradition that the members on the opposite side of the House automatically must disagree with the contents of the gracious Speech from the Throne, I suppose, dictated more by tradit1.on than anything else, we n,ust agree with the conanents in the gracious Speech from the Throne. · I see no reason today to break from that tradition because havin~ heard and having studied the contents of the gracious Speech from the Throne I am pleased to say, Sir, that I am not in disagreement with the proposals and the policies that have been put forward by our government.

In the Throne Speech, Sir, we have many new policies and programme&· set forth as a result of a great deal of effort and a great deal of planning which has taken place over the last coupie of years. I support these policies, ., Sir, because I believe they are based on a lot of effort, a lot of planning, a lot of consideration vhich has gone into them by many qualified people. I vould deal later on in my speech, more specifically maybe, with 887

February 15, 1974. Tape 263 RH - 3 some of the items in the gracious Speech from the Throne and I th:!.nk the comments I ,have to say will clearly outline what my position. Mr. Speaker, there have been many comments made by members in the honourable House conc.erning the Speech from the Throne. We have been referred to as a do-nothing government, a government that has done absolutely nothing since we have taken over a couple of years a11:o, I have be.en referred to on many occasions as the do-nothing M.H.A., as the crazy M.ll.A., as the unstable M,ll.A., all thrse sorts of comments.

AN HONOURABLE MEMRER: Inaudible. MR. SENIOR: Maybe today I can clarify the situation, Sir, somewhat concerning our government. Mlt. W. N. ROWE (White Bay South): Would the member permit a question? HR. SENIOR: A simple question, MR. ROWE: Yes, the first statement made about a do-nothing government:, that is irrelevant, but does the member mind informing the House who referred to him as a crazy M.H.A. or an unstable M.H.A. I mean those are harsh words and can lead to all sorts of misinterpretations. I mean, what context were they used and who used them? MR. SENIOR: Well, there is no need for misinterpretation.

I will clarify that for him further in the Speech as I deal with it in some detail because it involves a very wide area which I think I should clarify ard deal with at this time.

It has to do with some comments made by members from the other side of the House and comments made in the news media media by tho&e whom I suppose would be considered as sympathizers , members from the other side of the House; the honourable members for the other side of the House whom I would consider to be propagandists of the Liberal party, the great octopus we hav ,~ had in this Province. ·.,; I will go into that in some detail and deal with that and answer the honourable member's questions in detail because I think it is about time some of these thirws were brought out in the open and dealt with I \ and that the people of this Province were made aware of just what some people in this Province, what their motives are, just what is behind some of the things which are happening in this Province that I am aware of. 888

February 15, 1974. Tape 263 R.11 - 4 It is my intention, if I am permitted time enour,h, to brinp; some of these t.'tJ~~ to light and make the public more aware of _just what iA takinp; place in this Province and why, Now', Sir, we have been referred to as a do-noth:lni- government; have not done a thing since we took over. Let me deal with that for just a few moments and I could spend all my time, Mr. Speaker, dealing with the many programmes, many policies and many specific projects that our g,overnment has initiated, has completed and is in the process of comp'letinr, since we became a government.

First of all, I will deal with a figure which has been disputed by the honourable members on the other side of the House and that is, Sir, concerning the number of jobs that have been created by the P.C. Government since we took over some two years ago. The figures which we quoted, Sir, were that in 1949 we had 99,000 people in the labour force in Newfoundland and after twenty-three years of L:l.beral administra­ tion we had 139,000. We had a difierence of 40,000 people in twenty­ three years, 40,000 _jobs created. At the beginning of 1972, the number of people employed was 139,000.

In August of 1973, the number of people employed was 174,000, 35,dOO new jobs in twenty months. Now, Sir, in twenty-three years 40,000 jobs, in twenty-three months, approximately 35,000 new jobs. Sir, I do not think that is a fair comparison. I do not think it is a fair comparison to compare two years of administration with twenty-three. Let me, Sir, allow me1 Sir, to project that 889

February 15, 1974 Tape 264 which we have had to cope with over the last two years and then let n,e project the performance of our government in two years over tvcnt y-three years,ar.suming that we create jobs at the same pace that we are creflting them today. How many jobs, Sir, would we have in twenty-three years? $488,750 jobs - almost enough IB-1 for every person in this province today - an amazing statistic, Sir. Even, Sir, if the figures were disputed and even if they were cut in half, we would still end up with 250,000, a fantastic statistic when we look to the future.

We are a do-nothing government, have not done a thing? Go out to Grand Falis district, Sir, and talk to the people out there who have found jobs in the last two years, a town, Sir, that was dependent on o~e industry. Today we have development taking place there which is nearly completed and when it is completed will employ more people than are employed in the Price Mill in Grand Falls. It is a · fact, Sir - a one industry town where today we will have a stable economy.

A do-nothing government, a do-nothing M.H.A. - the honourable members from the other side,on the open line programme out there: "The M.H.A. has not don_e anything for the district since he has been a member, not a thing, has not done a thing." Well, Sir, I hope they go out there every day and get on that open line programme and say the same thing because the oftener they do that, the more credit I am getting and the more people are coming and shaking my hand and slapping me on that back. Sir, we hate to bring up the past.

We hear this brought up in this Bouse so often - do not bring up the past, do not refer to the past. Sir, how can we overlook the past when look across to the~ other side of this honourable House, Sir, and we see it here in . ~, person, in living colour, a segment of ·the same administration that the people of Newfoundland rejected in no uncertain terms in March of 1972. We have these same people here, Sir, in living colour today who are proponents of the same policies and supporting the same 890

February 15, 1974 Tape 261! IB-2 principles that this government had for twenty-three years,and trying to convince the people of Newfoundland that this is still right, what the people of Newfoundland rejected overwhelmingly in 1972. How naive, Sir, and how stupid do they think the people of Newfoundland are? Do they think they are going to revive this again~ No, Sir. The new Liberal Party, Sir, what is new about it? Someone tell me what is new about it. AN HONOURABLE r-'EMBER: They have a new headquarters. MR.

SENIOR: They are still trying to justify, Sir, that old position, still trying to justify the actions of the old administration, still trying to justify the actions of the old personalities, still try:l.ng to convince the people of Newfoundland that this was right. They are doing that , Sir, by trying to discredit the only sensible government we have had in Newfoundland for twenty-three years,by innuendo. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SENIOR: No, Sir, I cannot agree with it. MR . CROSBIE: ifuispering campaigns! Sneak attacks on open line! Character assassination! MR.

SENIOR: I am going to deal with open line programmes at some length, Sir.

Well, Sir, I will tell you one thing,they can preach all the old policies they want and they can get on the open line programmes all they want and they can get all the sympathy from the news media of this province that they can get but I am willing to stand here today, Sir, and say that they will never, · ever convince the people of Newfoundland that the policies that they stood for and the policies that they - or lack of policy - that they are putting forward today will ever convince the electorate of Newfoundland to pu~ them back in power in this province.

They will never get the credibility that they need to get really re­ elected, So, I sat in this House a few days ago and I heard, Sir, wbat I considered to be one of the most inspiring speeches, one of the most well delivered, one of the mdst sincerely delivered speeches that I have 891

February 15, 1974 Tape 264 IB-3 heard in thi1, honourable !louse. I had expected, Sir, with the content of tl,at speech, with the compassion with which it was presented, with the importance of its contents, that it would have made the news head­ lines. It did get some covcrase, Sir, I must admit. I went home and turned on my television set before I had my supper. Who was the first man I saw come on tlte television screen? The honourahle member from Bell Island. One of the best speeches I have heard in this HouseJ and he gets the coverage. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Who made the speech? MR. SENIOR: The honourable Mr.

Murphy, the Minister of Social Services. It is one of the best speeches I have heard in this House since I have been here. Now, Sir, I am going to go on a little further in a moment. I am straying from the subject somewhat but still I feel I have some leverage here because I have a lot on my mind which I want to speak about ·. We get this about a do-nothing government, about M.B.A's not properly representine their districts, about M.H.A's not visiting their district - the M.H.A. for Grand Falls is never in his district. has never been out in his district. That is all I hear out there. They phone up from St.

John's and get on the open-line programme out there and that is all you hear, Sir. Well, I am going to tell you, Sir, that I have had almost as much representation from districts in this province represented by Liberal members as I have had from my own district of Grand Falls. The district of White Bay South, Sir, is one example, in the community of Hampden, where I have had to deal with problems for those people. I am sure that the people of Grand Falls district will not mind me saying this,because this district is neglected, Sir. The member does not visit his district often enough.

There are problems ~i in his district that need to be attended to immediately. they come to? They come to me. Why? I do not know. MR. W. ROWE: I do not know either. They must be gone mad. Who do 892

February 15, 1974 Tape 264 IB- 4 MR. SENIOR: Somebody is gone \'/lad, The district of Fogo, Sir, and a man 1 respected in this House - I have letters on file from people in Fogo district, Sir, ~equesting a&Sistance, requesting help, requesting me to speak in the House on their behalf. documented files. T.he district of Bell Island, Sir - one of the most neglected districts in the province.

The member spends so much time travelling around this p.rovince, trying to discredit the Progressive Conservative Govermne.nt, the frogressive Conservative members,on open-line programmes that he has not got time to look after his own district. I have delegations that come into my office . from the district of Bell Island because they cannot meet with their member. It is a fact, Sir. The di~trict of White Bay North, Sir - same thing. l had a delegation in, Sir, about two weeks ~go. These people have problems that are not being taken care of. Their members are ~ot sympathizing with them, 893 1',

February 15, 1974 Tnpe no. 265 they are too busy travelling around the provi.nc:c discrediting the Progressive Conserv,:tive Government. They arc talking about us, about our lack of act~vity. It is a fact, Sir. AN HON. HEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SENIOR: Maybe it is because I. am just a human being who is concerned about people, I. clo n0t know. Maybe it is because I listened to h:im without a smirk on my face and maybe I appeared a little bit s:1.ncere or something, I do not know. I do not know. I do not ask people why they corae to me. When they come to me I say,"Sir can I help you. What is your problem?" AN HON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SENIOR: Oh, sure glad to. Yes, I would be glad to. From Bonavista North, Sir, I have received phone calls from people who have problems out there. I write the Hon, Member for Bonavista North, without d,~aling with him myself, and I refer to him in a courteous mannner. I get back, Sir, I suppose if you read between the lines, what could be considered a sarcastic letter saying that is pecause of lack of action on the Progressive Conservative Government, when in fact it is lack of action on behalf the M.H.A. for the district. No, Sir, the Member for Grand Falls has had a change of attitude.

I am no longer going to sit in this House and listen to lies - I will take that back, Sir, I understand that I am not supposed to say that. ·I am no longer going to sit in this House and listen to misrepresentation, innuendo, statements made which are not related to facts, nonsense and without reacting to it. Sir, God gave me the ability to speak, ·~ however well I do not know but speak I will. I will not sit in this House and listen to any more of this nonsense without reacting to it.

Sir, the Member for Grand Falls, for the information P:,ge I of the honourable House, for the information of the people of Grand Falls and for the information of anybody else who is interested, visits his 894

February 15, 1974 Tape no, 265 Page 2 district, Sir, at least once a month regularly, on a monthly basis. There have been times, Sir, when I have visited my district as high as six weeks in a row at my own expense, because l had been requested to do so, l have never refused to deal with a problem from my district. l hav~ never refused to answer a letter. l have never refused to return a phone call. l have not been able to give all yes answers. Let us be realistic· , who can? I have not been able to solve all the problems, Sir, but who can.

I will not take the kind of nonsense that I h,we heard on the "Open Line Programmes" in Grand Falls from the member from the opposite side of the House, without some reaction. I am just not going to take it, Sir. It it is going to be a fight, it is going to be a two-way fight, When I started out to campaign in the Grand Falls District, against the Deputy Premier and the Minister of Education or Finance, they told me I was crazy. I almost beljeved it myself •• When I found out what the odds were against me, I was even more convinced maybe that I was.

When I found out how the news media in that district was being used - the "Open Line Programanes" had become "Closed Line Programmes" because nobody else could get a chance to speak, Sir, except the moderator of the programme, who was a self-confessed Liberal. On the same station, Sir, on election day, contrary to the broadcasting rules, it broadcasted a political message from the Liberal candidate of the district. It was brought to the attention of C.R.T.C. but what happened? Nothing. Yes, Sir. they pulled all the stops out. They pulled it all out. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) • MR.

SENIOR: Whoever was involved in that campaign. There was a gentleman by the name of the H1~n. Frederick Rowe •. He was involved ;j in the campaign. I am talking about the whole goings on. That is the kind of thing. Sir, that we have had to contend with in this province, 895

February 15. 1974 Tape no. 265 Page 3 Nevertheless. the people of Newfoundland, Si:r, are not naive any more, They know what is going on, Sir. They are not fooled by the inuucndo and the insinuations and the foolish comments that are made by people, without substantiation. They are not fooled by this any more. Never again,Sir~ AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SENIOR: AN HON. MEMBER: MR, SENIOR: MR. W. ROWE: MR, SENIOR: MR. W. ROWE: MR. SENIOR: The honourable member has not documented one thing - About what? Name the charges or provide a documentatlon. l have the tapes. I can play them to you. Bring in the letters.

What letters? Those letters you were talking about. I will be very happy to. If you would like to come and see them, I can show them to you, MR. W. ROWE: Hr. Speaker, on a point of order: It is an order, but I have not been able to find it in the book here yet, if my memory serves m~ correctly, if documents, letters, newspapers or any topics outside the House are referred to the member is supposed to be prepared to table them. As a matter of fact, common courtesy would demand that he table them when mentioning them, I do call upon that rule governing parliamentary procedure, Mr.

Speaker, to ask the member to table it in the House of Asselllhly, all these letters he is talking about, MR. CRO.SBIE: On the point of order: If the honourable gentleman is going to get up on the point of order and say there is some rule, then the honourable gentleman shoul 1 :l be able to cite some authority ~j for it. MR. W. ROWE: I will cite it when I find it. MR. CROSBIE: There is no such rule, The Hon. Member for Grand Falls is entitled to mention or refer to anything he wants to refer to. HR. SENIOR: Now, Sir, I would like to get back to the subject ·' 896

February 15, 1974 Tape no. 265 Page 4 MR. SPEAKER: (Mr, Stagg): The rules under this matter are somewhat complex. If the honourable wish to give A citation, we shall certainly entertain it at that point, MR. W. ROWE: A member of this House, Sir, when he remembers a rule of the House, should not be expected on a moment's notice to be able to give the

chapter and verse of it, I will submit to, Your Honour, some citations concerning it but I would have thought that Your Honour would have been familiar with it in any event. MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Stafilt) : The Hon. Member for Grand Falls. MR, SENIOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very happy to abide by the rules of the House, Sir. Mr. Speaker, l was dealing with the s-ubjcct, Sir, of us being a do-nothing government. I was pointing out some statistics of what has happened since we became a government and to discredit these charges which have been made.

Sir, I could go on at some length and probably take up all my time dealing with this subject alone. Let me just mention a few of the highlights of what has happened in the last couple of years.

I will not go into detail on these, Sir, because I am sure they have been covered in great detail by the ministers of the various departments and l would not be qualified, Sir, to go into the same extended detail as they would be but just to merely mention them, to point out and discredit the charges that have been made that we are a do-nothing government~ J First of all let me mention the Labrador Linerboard Kill - the great, I do not know what you would call it, Sir. - disaster, catastrop -he, millstone or whatever else was left us. The Hon.

Minister of Finance, Sir, and his colleagues have, in my opinion, done an excellent job, a masterful job. What words can be used to 897

February 15, 1974 Tape no . 265 Page 5 describe the job that they have done r.o get this project going? SOME HON. MEMBEl{S: Hear! Hear! MR. SENIOR: There is just one, Sir. Up at the Marystown Shi py3rd, Sir, it was brought to a )evel of productivity never kno~ before. In 1974, I understt1nd it will show a profit of many hundreds of thou sands of dollars, maybe even a million dollars . An expansion programme I believ e is being considered for the shipyard. The Come-by-Chance Oil Rc:fincry, a second refinery has been negotiated, the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation, Sir, making loans available to businesses 898

February 15, 1974, Tape 266, Page 1 -- apb across the province. Grnding up to late last fall, 425 full-time jobs, $2.6 million lent out to business peoplA <1round the province. Development of the Lower Churchill, Sir, under consideration, and again I cannot go into too much detail on this because I am not a minister. Being familiar with what is happening, I can deal with mentioning it in a general way.

The feasibility studies that have been COllllllissioned to determine the feasibility of going on with this project, the tremendous benefits that will accrue to this as a result, the tremendous expenditure involved, the tremendous number of jobs, from ten to twelve thousand jobs that will result during the construction period of this project, many new things have taken place. There have been new departments set up, Sir. The new Department of Tourism. In 1973 we had 470,000 tourists visit this province as compared to 314,000 in 1971. Six new provincial parks opened in 1973, including the first one in Labrador.

Exapnsion of ten other provincial parks, considerable expansion of tourist promotion. In the field of recreation: Sir, since this government have; assumed office we have spent $2.5 million on recreation in the province, in various areas, Sir~ grants to youth organizations, sports governing bodies, capital grants and so on.

I am sure, Sir, that the expenditure in this prograIIDRe would have been a great deal more except for the unwise spending by the previous administration during the 1971 election campaign, when many, many commitments were made without any deal of planning, forethought; projects were half completed, We had a stadium built it{ Badger, Sir, that was built ~:J without any windows; it did not have ~ny lights in it, it did not have an ice plant in it, Sir, just a shell of a building. These were the kind of projects we were left with. This is the kind of recreation programme we were left with.

I am sure, Sir, that with the interest that the government has in recreation in the province, if we had not worked under such severe handicaps much more money 899

February 15, 1974, Tape 266, Page 2 -- apb would have been spent. Expenditure in this area will, I am sure, increase in the future, becau!"e our government places priority first of all on developing our resources and creating jobs for our people , Of course, by no stretch of the imagination is expenditure on recreational facilities at tl1c bottom of the list, Sir, We are concerned about the youth of this province and we would like to spend more money, I am sure, in this area.

Herc again this is an area which I c.'.ln only speak of generally, which I am sure will be dealt with by the ministers responsible, Another brand new department, Sir, the Department of Rural Development. Still have not done anything. How long have I been talking, Sir? I do not know but so far I have been talking about all the things that we have done and we still get to where we have not done anything. A new department, Rural Development. Why would our government want to set up a Department of Rural Development? Why? I will tell you why, Mr.

Speaker, because the people who live in the rural part of this prov1.nce have and we believe will continue to have a great contribution to make to the development of this province, SOME HON, MEMBERS: Hear! Hear: MR. SENIOR: They can only make that contribution, Sir, with the necessary assistance financially and otherwise from the provincial government. I do nol believe, Sir, our government believes in hand-outs to these people for favours of any kind,political or otherwlse.

I believe our govermr.ent believes in assisting our people when they have the initiative, the desire and the fortitude to get out and do something, when they have recognized the resource in their area or when a resource has be<m recognized for them by someone ! .i who has gone in and shown them and has given them assistance, Our people are not lazy, Sir. I came from a rural area, Sir. We did not live on ~elfarc. We were not lazy. There were times when we had it tough. there were lots of times we could have gotten a little 900

February 15, 1974, Tape 266, Page 3 -- apb assistance and it would have been easier to expand a little industry. That is why the Rural Development Department was set up, Sir, because it recognized the potential for development in rural Newfoundland. It recognized the potential of the people in rural Newfoundland to be able to participate in this development. We did not write them off, Sir, as people with no ability, as people who did not know anything, as people who could not make a contribution to the province.

No, Sir, we recognized them as Newfoundlanders .who had an interest in developing Newfoundland, who wanted to be a part of what is going on in Newfoundland, who wanted to share in some of the financial resources of Newfoundland but still have some imput themselves. What happened? We are told that it is a total failure. Sir, nobody will ever convince me of that. Nobody will ever convince the thousands of people around this province who are employed today as a result of the Rural Development Authority, that it was a failure. Nobody, Sir, will ever conviuce them of that.

I had the privilege a couple of weeks ago of walking into a carpenter's shop. There were two agressive young men, very enthusiastic, rearing to go, cannot meet the demands, Sir, cannot manufacture the goods fast enough. The same thing is happening in other areas of the province. We have thousands of other people around this province, Sir, who ~ould do the same thing and will be doing the same thing as our government continues to provide assistance on a sensible basis to them.

How many millions and millions and hundreds of millions ?f dollars have been spent in this province in the past to create temporary employment? When we have a Department ' of Rural Development_ Sir, the Rura~ _1Development Authority creating in a very short time well over two thousand jobs at a cost of about eighteen hundred dollars per job? What a succ~sR. Sir. What an an outstanding success. What a contribution these people are making to this province. If anybody think, Sir, that Newfoundland can be 901

February 15, 1974, Tape 266, Page 4 -- apb centralized, can be resettled so that we have all urban areas and survive, then,Sir, I think they had better have second thoughts about it. Most of the valuable resources in this province, Sir, are located in rural Newfoundland, Take our fishery, the great renewable resource which we have, our forestry resources and many others. Who is going to develop them, Sir, if :we resettle all the people t:o urb.1n areas in this province? It is not sensible thinking• Sir, as far as I am concerned. You just cannot sell me on that programme, nobody ever could.

I just do not believe it. I do not believe in moving a man from an area where he is making a contribution to the province to an area where he becomes a liability on the commun­ ity where he moves. I do not know anything about economics but to me, Sir, that is just basic common sense, and I think this is what the Rural Development Authority is all about.

It is to recognize and develop the resources in rural Newfoundland and have the people of rural Newfoundland develop them for their benefit so that they, Sir, can live the life style that they want to live, I do not mean, Sir, that people should live on every little island, nook and cranny in Newfoundland where they cannot enjoy some of the basic amenities of life. I do not ntean that but I still think, Sir, that there are many rural areas of Newfoundland that.are viable and can be made viable and will be made viable by the P.C.Government. 902

Febtu~ry 15, 1974 Tape No. 267 NH ·- 1 · and I could go on. I could get carried away on what our government has done. I could talk for hours, Sir, on my limited knowledge, just fr.om what I know, from what I have been exposed to. There are many speakers in this House, Sir, who could speak n,uch more eloquently than I could, with much more authority, with much more knowledge. But, Sir, it burns roE, up when I see the work and the effort that has be-en put into government in this province in the last two years to try to have it totvlly discredited by n:e,nLers from the other side of the House.

In the field of education, Sir, just a few more statistics, just interesting ~nes, I do not want to bore you, Sir, with facts ~nd figures. In education, teachers' incomes have risen since the Progressive Conservative took over office from $46 million to $65 million, an increase of 41 per cent. In our vocational schools, incomes have risen from $3.3 million to $5.3 million, an increase of 60 per cent. Monies advanced to the university increased from $16.2 million to $21.3 million, an increase of 32 per cent. Construction at the university rose from $3 million to $8.J million in 1973, an increase of 170 per cent.

School bus transportation increased by 18 per cent to over $1 million. We completed construction of several vocational schools at a cost of $6 million. Assisted in the renovation of buildings of 79 schools t:hroughout the province. Yet we have not done a thing, not a thing. A do-nothing govermnent. Mines and Energy - 1973 mining production in the province was forecast to reach $327 million, up more than 40 per cent in less than a year. Investment in the mining industry in 1973 was expected . to go to $90 million compared to $65 million in 1972.

In excess of $50 million we spent on offshore oil exploration~~nd so on. Again, Sir, I am not doing the job of the ministers but just by infonnation that is available to me in making this speech, I merely want to make some points and bring some facts before this honourable House. This is an interesting one - Transportation and, Communications. The minister is not here but I am sure he would not mind me relating some 903

February 15, 1974 Tape No, 267 NM.- 2 . of th~se figures to the honourable House, Mr.. Speaker. For the interest of those who may be interested, in a couple of years, Sir, since w~ have been electerl,we have paved 377 miles of road,at a cost of $27,360,000. 275 mileA of road have been reconstructed at a cost of $24 million. 17 miles of new road constructed at a cost of $16,300,000. 14 new bridecs have been built at a cost of $6,800,000. So $7l1,l160,000 have been spent on road work in less than two years. AN HON. ME~BER: Inaudible. HR. SENIOR: It is not c11l provincial money probably. AN HO~. MEMllER: Inaudible.

A;.'ii. HON. MEMBER: He just said, "We have done this." :MR. SENIOR: We the people, that is right. MR. MURPHY: Sure, on behalf of the people. MR. WM. ROWE: Do not be so childish. MR. SPEAKER (MR. STAGG): Order please, MR. SENIOR: Sir, I have only covered three or four departments and I was about to cut it short because I did not want to embarrass the honourable members too much. I do not want to take too much time of this honourable House, Sir, but I could go on to the other departments -and bring out some more startling revelations or facts, Sir, which show that we are not entirely a do-nothing government.

AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SENIOR: We realize, Sir, they are not interested. They are more interested in reading the comics but that is all right. We do not mind, MR. E. ROBERTS: The comics are, "Muse" editorial, "Student­ aid policies must be changed." MR. MURPHY: Ever to his own - MR.SPEJ\KER: Order! Order! Order! Order! MR.. ROBERTS: Come on that is not funny. MR SENIOR: Mr. Speaker do I have . the floor, Sir? I think, Mr. Speaker, I have covered ~nough ~erritory in statistics to point out, Sir, that we have accomplished a great deal 904

February 15, 1974 Tape NO. 267 NM - 3 since we have been elected as government of this province. It is very difficult for me Sir, as a member, to sit here day after day after day, pick up my newspaper day after day after day, turn on the radio and television day after day after day and hear that we are a do-nothing government. I will admit, Sir, in my opinion we have made some mistakes. I would agree to that. I would concede to that and probably, Sir, if I have the privilege to stand here a year from now, I will say the same thing. As far as my own district is concerned, Sir, I would say the same thing.

I am not satisfied. I am sure, Sir, if I stood here ten years from now I would say the same thing. I would not be satisfied. When we are all satisfied, Sir, when we have all our problems solved we do not need a government. That is our job. That is our job, Sir, to meet the needs of the people of the province, to solve problems. We are confronted with problems daily, I am confronted with problems daily. I wish there were easy solutions. I wish there were fast solutions. Sir, the process of government does not work that way. We have many, many blaring needs in the District of Grand Falls.

I would like to comment on some of those, Sir, for just a few moments.

After I was elected the member for Grand Falls, having lived there and having recognized some of the potential for development in that area, having recognized and having lived with some of the local problems with two towns, Sir, being inteirated physically, socially, yet separate, recognizing, Sir, the potential because of the geographic location and so on. ·when I became the member I felt it was my duty to bring to the attention of the government, to the attention of the ~t people in the district, to the attention of the public generally what I felt was the importance of this area and the important role that I felt it would play in the development of Newfoundland in the future.

Well, Sir, whenever I talked about great industrial development taking place in Grand Falls, I was told I was crazy. It would never happen. It has always been a one-company town. No one is interested in 905

· . . _-;. ,;,A" February 15, 1974. Tape NO. 267 NM - 4 going there. It will never happen. But, Sir, day after day after day in the news media and in the press 906

February 15, 19711 Tape 268 IB-1 I emphasize the importan ce of this a rea, I empltnsize the interest s of local ~overnment officials in attracting industry to this area. So, Sir, we developed a great industrial park there. The first phase was partially completed. It filled up so rapidly, Sir, that last year another seventy-five acres were developed. It was projected that this seventy-five acres of serviced land ,.,ould last for three years. The land has been serviced, Sir, for approximately six or seven months and today it is virtually sold out.

There is a demand for more, In addition to that we have a new shopping mall which is opening in June or July which is going to employ 350 people. Sir, there was no great investment of government money for this type of development. An investment of approximately $500,000 to service the lnncl. Once the services were provided and the importance of this area was made known to the public and it was recognized, private enterprise did the rest. Sir, it is not going to end there because the demand is increasing each day for more industrial serviced land for the Grand Falls, Windsor area.

I am sure, Sir, that our government recognizing what has taken place, although it was considered initially that it would not take place, that the venture was not recognized but you cannot deny the fact that it has taken place - recognizing the need that exists there now for more serviced land and I am sure our _government will be sympathetic to providing ass 'istance for this worth-while project. In addition to that, Sir, we have another major problem in the Grand Falls, Windsor area, something that I am sure most people in Newfoundland are not aware of.

That is that the Town of Grand Falls does net have a water supply really. The Town of Grand Falls, the industrial area included, is supplied from an eight inch water main that was installed about 1910 by the .a.ND Company using an antiquated ~J pumping system which was installed at the same time-'.. That supplies the ,. whole area. That system was designed to ·service the area that existed at that time. That is what we are dependent on, Sir, for a water supply and to supply the great industrial expansion which is taking 907 ....

February 15, 1974 Tape 268 ll:5-2 place there. If anybody has any doubts that 1 am misrepresenting what i .s happening in the district of Grand Falls, Sir, the physical evidence is there for anybody to see. Now, this problem has'been recognized and it has been dealt with to some extent . ln t he second special areas agreen 1c.nt of DREE a study was commissioned to study the regional sei:'vicing needs of the Grand Falls, Windso r, Bishop Falls area.

Emanating from that study were certain reco mn,endations and one recommemlation was that one wster supply system, a reg:l .onal Vitter supply system would be able to service the three towns with one water source. They were able to locate a suitable source of water . The Town of Bishop Falls is now being connected to that source. We have a large storage tank installed in the Town of Grand Falls and we are now, Sir• looking to the Federal and Provincial Governments for funds to install the water ma.in from the source to the storage tank in Grand Falls\ 908 .•

February 15, 1974. Tape 269 RH •· 1 to suprly Grand Falls, Winsor and the husiness are a for the whole rci:sion, We do not think this is too much to ask, in view of the minimal con­ trubution that has been made, Sir, in view of the tremendous expansion that has taken place. I have been informed, Sir, once the industrial area is completed, that is now underway, that it will employ more people than are employed in the Price Newfoundland Mill. Yes, Sir, Phase (2) is on Cromer Avenue. It was developed. The land was service this year and as T mentioned before it was projected that land would last for three years .

It is virtously sold out. Now, they are looking to r,o across the tracks into Winsor and service th:1t expansion from the area in Grand Falls , and the benefits of that w!JJ accrue to Winsor which is certainly needed, because the town of Winsor has very little industry, has very little revenue fro~ industry. As a matter of fact, Sir, we heard a lot about, we do not hear a lot, we h~ar mentioned from time to time that we do not need too much out in Grand Falls district, that we are wealthy out there and so on.

It will become a well known fact soon, Sir, that the tax contribution of the people of Winsor is among the highest in the Province. That is a fact. So, these are two areas, Sir, in the Grand Falls, Winsor c.omplex that we are gravely concerned about because of the :Immediate need. We are afraid, Sir, that if we do not meet this need quickly that enterprise, the business people who are interested in locating in this area may turn their attention elsewhere.

With the momentum that we have, we do not want to lose it and I am sure, Sir, our Government will go into this in ·some depth and ~ive it all due consideration, not gambling or specu­ lating on something that may not work out but realizing what has already happened there and the demand that does.Jexist, There are a couple of other areas, Sir, of the district, I would like to refer to. I am grateful~ Sir, for what has happened, Generally, we have received a fair amount of co-operation from the Provincial 909

February 15, 19711. Tape 269 RH - 2 Government in lit1e with other priorities in the Province, considering the problems we have had to facP. over the last counle of years. ~one the less, Sir, we must continually draw to the attention of p;overnment as M.H.A. 1 s the needs of our district. There are other areas of my district which have problems. Next, I would like to mention, very briefly, the