LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Friday, 25 June, 1982 Time - 2:00 p.m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: Presenting Peti- tions Reading and Receiving Petitions Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Commit- tees Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports . Notices of Motion . Introduction of Bills ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Garry. MR. L. SHERMAN: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Honourable Minister of Health. Could I ask him if he has had time to consult with - I'll repeat my question, Mr. Speaker.

I don't think the Minister of Health heard my opening few words. I would ask the Minister of Health if he has had an opportunity since this morn­ ing's sitting of the House, to consult with the Manitoba Health Services Commission or whether he has heard directly from the Commission or from the MMA con­ firming the rejection vote of the government's latest offer on the fee schedule. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr.

Speaker, I had confirma­ tion of that earlier, that is, not the information that I was given by the honourable member, but the confir­ mation by a letter that I received from the President of the MMA, that 65 percent of those that had answered the ballot had rejected the offer. But I did not have the complete information. I had no information as to the percentage that were ready or willing or wanting to go on withdrawing services. That information I received from my honourable friends. I have nothing further. MR. L.

SHERMAN: Could the Minister advise the House whether, in that notification that he received from the MMA with respect to the vote, there was any indication or suggestion as to the next initiative that should be taken with respect to getting the two parties back together, or has he discussed that with the Commission at this point? HON. L. DESJARDINS: Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of this letter at this time. I read the letter earlier this morning during the Question Period and if I remember right, they gave me the information that I mentioned.

Then, I think that they suggested that Cabinet would get together - that was their suggestion - to make them a reasonable offer. That was their words, not mine. MR. L. SHERMAN: Mr. Speaker, can we conclude from the Minister's answers that the House can be assured and the public can be assured that there will be no precipitous withdrawal of services by members of the Manitoba Medical Association? HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, I'm sure that the member knows that question should be asked of the MMA, not of me. I certainly won't ask anybody to withdraw services. MR. L. SHERMAN: Precisely, Mr.

Speaker, I am not suggesting that the Minister would, but I'm asking the Minister either for assurance from him that on the basis of what he has received from the MMA to this point in time, there is no indication that there'll be any precipitous withdrawal of services, or assurance that he will go into meetings with the Commission and the MMA to ensure over the weekend that there is no such withdrawal of services. HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, I don't know why I was given only part of the information from the MMA, who had publicly stated that they were asking two questions, I think.

They were polling their mem­ bership on two questions. They only gave me the result of one and I don't know why or how, that's not my concern, why the Leader of the Opposition has the information that I didn't have. I'm not faulting him at all for that and I thank him for giving me that information. I learned from his mouth; I found out from him what the information was. Now, they did not say to me anything to indicate that they were withdrawing servi­ ces. I can't guarantee that they won't and I can't gua­ rantee anything about what their actions will be.

That's what I meant when I suggested that the ques­ tion should be asked of the MMA, not of me. But so far, the letter that I received today doesn't mention a word and doesn't even hint at the question of withdrawing services at all. MR. L. SHERMAN: Mr. Speaker, a final question, can the Minister give the House an indication as to when he and his colleagues intend to meet on this subject? What may be contemplated in terms of a new meeting or a renewal of meetings with the MMA on the subject at hand? HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, the MMA requested what they called a last meeting to try to resolve the situation.

We had put in what we clearly, sincerely, and honestly felt was our last offer before that. We increased that on a condition that it would be for settlement only. I was assured that this was a proper way of bargaining. In other words, it would revert back to the previous offer if it wasn't accepted. The MMA negotiators were informed of that: they understood that.

They did not recommend it to their membership and, in fact, it was refused by their membership. 3604 I have no intention at this time - well, never mind - I have no intention, period - because of the situation and, if I'm allowed to elaborate on that, the economic situation in Manitoba, the plight and the problems of inany Manitobans, to recommend to Cabinet that we increase this amount at all at this time. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Arthur.

25 June, 1982 MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education.

In view of the fact that the Minister of Education has restructured the Board of Directors or the Board of Governors of the Brandon University and also in view of the fact that Westman Region, a lot of the rural constituencies have a lot of their youth go to the Brandon University and I think it's important to have representation, why would the Minister of Education, why would she restructure it so as to narrow down the representation on the Brandon University and remove the recommendation or the appointment by the Association or by the Board itself to get that kind of broad regional coverage? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Education. HON. M. HEMPHI LL: Mr. Speaker, I quite agree with the point that the member opposite made when he raises a concern about representation on the Board of Governors of the universities. It was because of that reason that I made some of the changes in structure that were made. The removal of the appointment of two members by the Brandon University Association was done because it's a very unique situation where a Board of Governors almost appoints members itself, to its own board.

That doesn't happen, to my knowl­ edge, at any other university in Manitoba, nor to any other university in Canada, where there is a vehicle for the board to appoint members to its own body. How­ ever, I think that the point that he made about the importance of representation of communities is very very important and the very reason why the changes were made. The target populations of the universities are changing tremendously.

Brandon University, for instance, is one of the major deliverers of Native pro­ gramming to Native communities and, to date, there has been no Native representation on Boards of Gov­ ernors of any of the universities. A large amount of the budget of the Brandon University comes from the Federal Government to provide programs for Natives.

So that it was for those exact reasons that the changes in structure were made, recognizing that you cannot make all the changes in one year; that there may still be areas where there is not reasonable representation or where there are groups or bodies that are not yet covered. that couldn't be covered in this initial move, but that we will look seriously at and hope to cover in the next few years. MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, I have no difficulty with the Minister selecting certain groups to which she wanted to get representation from. The problem I have with it, Mr.

Speaker, and I would ask the Minister if she has a difficulty with two out of 12 board members, being a body that's able to add to it to make it a stronger and a better board of governors for that Westman Region and I think, Mr. Speaker, the Minis­ ter may have had other motivations in the changes which she has proposed, Mr. Speaker.

I would ask if the Minister is now directing the Bran­ don University more as a political instrument of the government by the removal of one John Allan and appointing one William Moore, who of course is known pretty much in the supportive group of the NOP Party. ls it for the purpose of supporting the New Democratic Party or is it for bettering the education system in the Westman Region? HON. M. HEMP HILL: Mr. Speaker, first of all, there were no appointments that were revoked. The Mr. Allan that was suggested, was not removed from his position. His appointment terminated. The term of his appointment was up.

There are positions on the Board of Governors MR. SPEAKER: Order please. I'm having some diffi­ culty hearing the Honourable Minister. HON. M. HEMP HILL: There are positions on every university Board of Governors, Mr. Speaker, that allow for the appointment of members to the Board of Governors by the government when openings come due. These are regular openings that are due to be refilled or to be filled again at the end of June. We have done that and we have done that by talking to a great number of people, by doing a great amount of consulting.

We met with people from the commun­ ity; we met with people from the university. One of the changes that we have made is to increase student representation and senate representation to have it more in keeping with the representation in other uni­ versities. Students only had one representative on the Board where all other universities have two, so we increased the representation there. We did it after full consultation and we did it because it is our job to review appointments that are coming due and to fill it with the best people and with the best representation that we can find and we did that. 3605 MR. J.

DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that the Minister has indicated that she has talked to cer­ tain people, did she talk with those people who were revoked by her Order-in-Council on June 9th, Mans Binkley and John Allan? Did she discuss with either of those two people or notify them by letter or ask them how that system was working, if in fact it was a good linkage with the general community, Mr. Speaker? Will she reconsider changing the Order-in-Council to make the change so that two people from the Associa­ tion can be reappointed to that Board of Governors? HON. M. HEMPHI LL: Mr. Speaker, yes.

As a matter of fact, I did communicate with all members of the exist­ ing Board of Governors in a letter that went from me asking for communication from them about the exist­ ing representation on the Board; what they felt about it; how fair they thought it was; whether they thought there were any deficiencies in the existing makeup. That was one of the groups that was consulted. It was a result of information that we got from all of the people we talked to, that we made the changes that we did.

In terms of the two specific appointments where the Brandon University Association appoints its own representatives to the Board of Governors, where the University Board of Governors is virtually appointing two of its own members, I do not think it's necessary to continue with that practice to get fair representation from the communities.

Friday, 25 June, 1982 MR. J. DOWNEY: One specific question, Mr. Speaker. I am not clear, Mr. Speaker. I asked the Minister if she contacted John Allan directly as a Minister, or Mans Binkley, who were appointed by the Board that she's referring to or the Association, did she contact either one of those individuals directly to find out specifi­ cally how well that system works, or did she not? HON. M. HEMPHILL: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the member opposite knows that it would be very difficult for me to personally communicate with everybody that I am going to get information from.

A letter went out from me to each of the individual people presently serving on the Board of Governors and they, in their capacity, would have received a letter from me solicit­ ing their opinion and I did that. I did not call them on the telephone. I did not call and discuss with any of the other members directly. The information was solicited by mail, by letter. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Tuxedo. MR. G. FILMON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In view of the fact that the Minister has indicated that part of her motivation in changing the method of selecting members for the Board of Governors is that she wants specific representation from groups that have not been represented before, namely, Natives and other special groups, what assurance does she have that the students or the Senate, who now have an opportunity to appoint more members themselves, will appoint people from those specific groups to the Board? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Education. HON. M. HEMPHI LL: Mr.

Speaker, the Order-in­ Council is written in such a way that, for instance, the students now have two positions and they are allowed to name or to elect their representatives to the Board of Governors and it does not require an additional O/C. As soon as they elect their people and name them, they become representatives to the Board of Governors and the same goes for the Senate. They are allowed to choose their own representative and those people automatically become their representative on the Board of Governors. MR. G.

FILMON: I appreciate the information but how does that assure that the people appointed will come from those special groups that she's named? MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions. The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. MR. R. BANMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I direct my question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and would ask him, on June 14th he was asked a question by the Member for Arthur with regard to the Main Street Manitoba Project in which he indicated that he was not aware of any directive going out from his department dealing with the disallowance of unincor­ porated villages from applying for the Main Street Manitoba Project. Will he now confirm that, after that question was raised that he has now made a change and instructed his department to allow these unincor- ·----·----·-----·------ porated villages to apply for Main Street Manitoba? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Munici­ pal Affairs. HON. A. ADAM: Mr. Speaker, the question I believe as I recall, was that there had been a letter that had gone out to an unincorporated village or a municipal­ ity, disqualifying it from making an application. I responded at that time, that as far as I was aware that had not been done and I asked the member if he had a specific case where such had been done that he show me the letter or bring it to my attention and I would deal with it. Mr.

Speaker, all municipalities, including those that have unincorporated villages, have been notified that where there is a main street that village can qualify, but you must have a main street. -(Interjection)- It's impossible, Mr. Speaker, to revitalize a main street on the back 40. You have to have a main street.

All small villages, if there's sufficient interest in that village, the procedure that they should follow is, con­ tact their municipality to request that there is suffi­ cient interest in that particular town, whether it be some hamlet somewhere, Shellmouth or wherever, and that they approach their municipality just as I advised the honourable member when they applied for the centennial grant, to approach the municipality. The same thing applies here. The unincorporated UVD, they apply to its municipality and their applica­ tions will be judged on their merits, Mr. Speaker. MR. R.

BANMAN: Will the Minister confirm that after he announced his program, people within his depart­ ment were telling people from unorganized villages and unincorporated villages that they were not eligi­ ble for this program? HON. A. ADAM: I am unable to confirm that, Mr. Speaker. There has been one instance where a busi­ nessman from an unincorporated UVD went into the Secretary-Treasurer and enquired as to whether that particular little UVD could qualify.

The Secretary­ Treasurer advised the businessperson who made the enquiry that they would not be able to qualify, that this year the program would only be applicable in that area to the town of Russell. So this is just one situation that comes up, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly cannot confirm that our staff has gone out and advised any UVD that they could not qualify. I can't confirm that. MR. R. BANMAN: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minis­ ter of Municipal Affairs whether all the application forms dealing with Main Street Manitoba are ready for people to pick them up or have them sent to them? HON. A.

ADAM: Yes, the applications went out along with the letters that we mailed out to all the municipali­ ties. The application accompanies the letter. MR. R. BANMAN: Will the Minister confirm that an individual who would like to repair his storefront, on the announcement made by the Minister on May 18, the announcement in which he said, and I read: "The following general principles in the program for store- 3606

Friday, 25 June, 1982 front renovation or improvement should be part of the proposal. Costs of the private storefront improvement will be cost-shared with the proprietor, one-third by the province and up to a maximum of 500." I wonder if the Minister could inform the House and confirm that these application forms for individuals who wish to redo their storefronts are not available through his department or through the Department of Finance. HON. A.

ADAM: The application goes out to the municipality and the storekeeper, the businessperson will contact the municipality with their particular pro­ posal and it's attached to the application that comes in from the local government, from the municipality. They have to put their pictures of the premises before and after and a description of what they want to do and the estimated cost. It can be done on any form and attached along with the application which is a dual application. The application is a dual application which shows the projects for the private sector along with the public sector.

It's all on the same application form, but it's done through the municipality. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Springfield. MR. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Natural Resources concerning a mat­ ter that was raised several days ago with regard to Molson Lake. Mr. Speaker, I'm wondering if there is any restric­ tion whatsoever on Manitoba residents fishing on that lake. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Natural Resources. HON. A. MACKLING: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the honourable member for giving me notice of the question. -(Interjection)- I agree with the humour.

Mr. Speaker, as a result of perhaps the incomplete­ ness of my answer, because I have been prone to giving fairly precise answers in the House, I neglected to make it abundantly clear that the restriction in respect to fishing on Molson Lake did not apply to residents of Manitoba. It is designed to deal with nonresident tourists who are coming for a remote fishing experience.

The departmental recommendation was that, in the past, this experience was provided through commercial facilities, appropriately located in the North and, in this case, in Molson Lake, where there was extensive local employment as a result of that initiative. So the concern was, that nonresidents looking for a remote fishing experience should be restricted to being a guest of the lodge in that case. Now that was a recommendation that came for­ ward. I'm looking at that.

There's a principle involved that I'm not sure is something that we want to either continue or enlarge upon, but it was a suggestion that was legitimately made. I take responsibility for it but it does not restrict Manitoba residents from fishing on that lake. MR. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the Minister of Natural Resources. Is this policy presently in effect on other lakes in Manitoba, with respect to nonresident fishermen, or would this be the first example of this new policy which is under consideration? HON. A. MACKLING: Mr. Speaker, no, this is a uni­ que situation, it is a first.

As I have indicated, I am neither warmly enthusiastic or coldly pessimistic about it. I'm rather looking upon this as a trial. I think there has been public reaction to it that was unneces­ sary because I didn't indicate that Manitoba residents are not being restricted in any way. MR. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, a final supplemen­ tary. Can the Minister advise if he is considering any lakes in the Whiteshell Provincial Park for a similar exclusive treatment in terms of fishing rights for nonresidents? HON. A. MACKLING: Mr.

Speaker, I recognize the concern of the honourable member since his consti­ tuency I think embraces, if not all, almost the entirety of the Whiteshell Provincial Park and I can say to him, quite categorically, that this policy decision that has been employed in respect to Molson lake only is not L.nder consideration for any lake in the Whiteshell. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Thompson. MR. S. ASHTON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question arising out of the shutdown announced by lnco two days ago and it's in regard to the Interest Rate Relief Program.

I wonder if the Minister could indicate what income criteria will be used in applying to - that's for the Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Speaker ­ applying to this program since monthly income crite­ ria, if used in the case of people who will be laid off for a period of two months, would overstate their income by as much as 16 percent. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. HON. B. URUSK I: Mr.

Speaker, with respect to the question that was raised by the Honourable Member for Thompson, I should point out that there is within the criteria presently a Northern Allowance salary component in calculating incomes as it relates to Northerners with respect to the eligibility under the home Interest Rate Relief Program. With respect to the possibility of calculating annual income because of the drop in income of being laid off for two months or longer, Mr.

Speaker, we will cer­ tainly want to review that aspect and see how it app­ lies, and how it would impact on residents in those areas with respect to applications under the program. 3607 We look at the global or annual income in terms of the program as it exists presently. I believe there may need to be further review dealing with the specifics that the honourable member raises and we'll certainly look into that further. MR. S. ASHTON: I have a further question for the same Minister on a different matter, a question I have

25 June, 1982 given prior notice of. Earlier today and yesterday in question period references were made to the dumping of milk at Rossburn. Reference has been made to the fact that it has been done in the past. I know there was TV coverage last night showing it being done in 1977. 1 was wondering if the Minister can indicate if it has been undertaken in more recent times, and particu­ larly in the year 1981 , and if he has any information as to how much milk was dumped in that year. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr.

Speaker, you'll recall the Member for Arthur earlier today and yesterday indi­ cating - when I indicated that there had been milk dumped in the past - indicating that there had not been to his recollection and to prove it. Well, Mr. Speaker, I did check to find out, to ascertain what has happened in the Manitoba context and last year we did have - and we looked back one year only at the present time - last year there was over half a million litres of milk dumped in the Province of Manitoba, skim milk, relating directly to the difficulties that MANCO was experiencing last year already at this time of year. Mr.

Speaker, as well I should advise the Honourable Member for Arthur that in addition to having that milk dumped, the arrangements that have been made with the Province of Saskatchewan are such that all our excess capacity could have been looked after by the Province of Saskatchewan in their operations in York­ ton and Saskatoon. However, due to their increase in production the cutback that has occurred to Manitoba has resulted in this unfortunate incident of skim milk being poured down. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. MR. R. BANMAN: Thank you, a few more questions, Mr.

Speaker, to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. I would ask him to confirm that there are no application forms for people, for individual store owners who wish to renovate their storefronts and take advantage of this program? HON. A. ADAM: Mr. Speaker, we never intended that there would be applications going out to the individ­ ual stores. We would have to send thousands and thousands and thousands of applications to all store owners. It was felt that it was better to handle it through the municipality. We instructed the store people.

I spoke to the Union of Manitoba Municipalities, and also MUAM, Manitoba Urban Association of Municipali­ ties, as well in Selkirk. We outlined the programs. We advised them that anyone applying would have to, including the municipalities, would have to show maps and the private individual would provide pic­ tures before and after the project.

Also, that they would submit estimates of costs of the storefront and that would be presented to the municipality, and the municipality would put those along with the applica­ tion, which is a dual application, showing the private projects and the public projects all together. The financing of it, we would be dealing directly with the private individual for the storefront insofar as the provincial share of the cost of the storefront reno- vation. We would be dealing with the municipality for the public side of the work.

We've also advised the municipalities and the busi­ ness people on a number of occasions, if they required any information that they should get in touch with the Department of Budget and Finances. We gave them the address and it was in all the statements that I made. So we don't see any problem in that direction, Mr. Speaker. MR. R. BANMAN: Mr.

Speaker, what the Minister is saying, that unless the town makes the application to upgrade its own main street, and the store owner at the same time says that when we're doing the main street we're going to do my storefront; in other words, if these are done in tandem that is the only way the store owner can take advantage of this program. In other words, this program is not for anybody who wishes on Main Street Manitoba to fix up their store­ fronts. It has to be done.

If the municipalities go ahead and apply and their application is passed, then the store owner can, along in tandem with that, apply with the municipality. Is that what the Minister is saying? HON. A. ADAM: Mr. Speaker, what we were trying to achieve is co-operative effort in local communities; that is what we were trying to achieve. We reviewed the programs in other provinces, Mr. Speaker, and that is the most successful way of revitalizing a main street. You know, we've had some local governments say, well, we've got a project already. We would like to build a fire hall. That's our main street project.

Well that's not a main street project, Mr. Speaker. - (Interjection)- No, what we are trying to achieve is revitalization of the main street sector, including pub­ lic works. In fact, we indicated that we would meet with the Union of Manitoba Municipalities, the execu­ tive; and also the executive of the Manitoba Urban Associations as well and we have met with them. We have already met with them to finalize the guidelines and the meeting with the Urban Association will be done very shortly.

From the Union of Manitoba Munic­ ipalities we asked them, "What percentage of the bus­ iness sector and to what extent should they be involved with the total project?" They were setting a target of 50 percent which we thought was fairly high, but we took it under advisement and we're prepared to be quite flexible on that; we've made it as flexible as possible, Mr. Speaker. It's going to be a successful program. There's a lot of interest out there and we're very happy the way it has been received by the munic­ ipalities and the business people. 3608 MR. B. BAN MAN: Mr.

Speaker, in light of the fact that many people from rural Manitoba, business people who are trying to fix up their storefronts, are now calling their members, are calling the government, asking them how to deal with this program that was announced by the Minister and touted by this government; and in light of the fact that you cannot get any answers from anybody, either in his depart­ ment or in other departments because the regulations haven't been established, will he please clarify this program to the rural citizens so that they know where they're at and that everybody knows where they're at?

25 June, 1982 Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, would he inform the House whether his Department of Municipal Affairs is run­ ning this program or the Department of Finance? HON. A. ADAM: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member's questions and I want to say very categori­ cally that from Day One when the announcements were made, it was clear that it had to be a joint project with the municipalities and the private sector, right from Day One.

Every statement that I made, the press release, the news items - even for once the press did it just about the way I said it, it was very co-operative on their part ­ the information has been sent out there to the public and I have met on seven district meetings with the Union of Manitoba Municipalities and that was part of my speech and well received, Mr. Speaker. There were no complaints. The address I made in Selkirk to the Urban Association is in my hand. I can wave it around and it's all clear. I'll read it but I'm sure the House Leader would not like that very much.

I made it clear to the Urban Association, they know about it. The only people who are complaining are the members opposite. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Virden. MR. H. GRAHAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a further question to the Honourable Minister of Munic­ ipal Affairs. Has the Minister or the Minister of Finance made a definite decision yet on how much, what per­ centage of the money is going to the Union of Mani­ toba Municipalities, and how much is going to the Urban Association? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Munici­ pal Affairs. HON. A.

ADAM: I wonder if the honourable member will clarify his question. Is he talking about the Main Street Program now? -(Interjection)- Oh, that's a very deep question. I don't know how far he reached down in his bag of tricks for that one. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Perhaps the Minister might take the matter under advisement since we have expired the time on Oral Questions. INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS MR. SPEAKER: May I direct the attention of honour­ able members to the gallery where we have 10 stu­ dents of Grades 5 and 6 standing of the William Whyte Elementary School.

The students are under the direc­ tion of Miss Land and the school is in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Burrows. On behalf of all of the members, we welcome you here this afternoon. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. MR. G. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, before Orders of the Day, I simply wish to make it clear that as is the posi- tion of the Opposition that the House is meeting while a Committee is meeting. only with leave of the Opposition.

Secondly, we presume that the House will not meet again until Monday afternoon at 2 o'clock in view of the Committee meetings tomorrow and Monday morning. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R. PENNER: Yes, that is correct. COMMITTEE CHANGES MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. MR. B. BANMAN: Mr. Speaker, on the Industrial Rela­ tions Committee, I'd like to substitute the Member for Tuxedo for the Member for Minnedosa; and the Member for Sturgeon Creek for the Member for Lakeside. MR. SPEAKER: Agreed? (Agreed) The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R.

PENNER: Yes, I have some Committee changes, Mr. Speaker. With respect to Statutory Reg­ ulations and Orders, the Member for Gimli will substi­ tute for the Minister of Consumer Affairs. On the Committee of Industrial Relations, the Member for Rupertsland will substitute for the Member for Wolseley and on the same Committee, but for Saturday afternoon only should the Committee be meeting then, the Minister of Agriculture for the Minis­ ter of Transportation. With respect to Law Amendments on Monday, the Member for St. Johns for the Member for The Pas. MR.

SPEAKER: Agreed? (Agreed) The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R. PENNER: Mr. Speaker, would you please call on the Adjourned Debates on Second Reading, Bill No. 30? MR. SPEAKER: On the proposed amendment of the Honourable Member for La Verendrye on second reading of Bill No. 30, standing in the name of the Honourable Leader of the Opposition. (Stand) 3609 The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R. PENNER: Mr. Speaker, would you please call the Adjourned Debates on Second Reading of the Private Bills, Bills No. 34 and 35?

ADJOURNED DEBATES ON SECOND READING PRIVATE BILLS Bill NO. 34 -AN ACT TO INCORPORATE THE MENNO SIMONS COLLEGE MR. SPEAKER: On the proposed motion of the Hon­ ourable Member for Elmwood, Bill No. 34, standing in

Friday, 25 June, 1982 ������� ������ the name of the Honourable Member for La Verendrye. MR. B. BANMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a few brief comments with regard to this bill and will be interested to see the representation that is made by the legal counsel for this group at the committee hearings. Some of the questions that I have with regard to this particular incorporation of a new Liberal Arts College is the one of continued operating costs.

I would be interested to know, it's one thing in this day and age of declining enrolments and that, to raise capital for the construction of a facility, but as we all know there are ongoing costs not only to the people that'll be involved in the setting up of this particular college, but also I would suggest to the Province of Manitoba in that the institutions of higher learning such as the universities and that receive up to 87 to 90 percent of their funding from the provincial purse, so I'd be interested to know exactly what direction this particular college will take.

I also have to say, one of the other things that I will be interested in knowing is how this will fit in with the other colleges which are being operated at the pres­ ent time and with some of the other Mennonite institu­ tions which are now being supported primarily, I might say, through donations which are received from people in the Mennonite faith who, either through tuition or through church donations, are running these particular facilities. It's interesting to note, Mr.

Speaker, that the member who introduced the resolution is one really who does not support the private school concept and yet here we are faced with a bill that he has introduced which really goes, to a certain way, instead of bringing about more state institutions, more of an ethnic and a reli­ gious college rather than the type of approach that he has so often spoken about in the House with regard to his belief, that there are too many smaller schools being proliferated by such things as the aid to private schools and other things. I would refer him to speeches he made in the House in his political career.

I must on that aside, Mr. Speaker, just note with interest that here he is bringing in a bill which will set up really a private college sponsored by a religious group, by a group of individuals of a particular faith and on the other hand he does really not subscribe to helping private or parochial schools. I would. Mr.

Speaker, having said those few words, commend the bill to the Committee and look forward to trying to get some answers to some of the questions which I posed and a few others which I would have at the time when legal counsel for this particular group, or any members of the founding organization will be present to answer any of the questions. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Virden, that debate be adjourned. MOTION presented and carried.

Bill NO. 35 -AN ACT TO INCORPORATE THE MENNONITE BRETHREN CHURCH OF MANITOBA MR. SPEAKER: On the proposed motion of the Hon- ourable Member for River East Bill, No. 35, standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Niakwa. The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. MR. B. BAN MAN: Mr. Speaker, the Member for Niakwa is in Committee at the present time. He has given me the understanding and I would at this time like to say that we will let this bill go to Committee and deal with the bill at Committee stage. QUESTION put, MOTION carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R. PENNER: Mr.

Speaker, would you please call the Second Reading on the Public Bill No. 62. SECOND READING - PUBLIC Bill Bill NO. 62 - THE HIGHWAY TRAFFIC ACT

(2) MR. G. MERCIER presented Bill No. 62,

An Act to amend The Highway Traffic Act, for second reading. MOTION presented. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. MR. G. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, just briefly, this amendment is a very simple amendment which would add to the definition of "moped" under The Highway Traffic Act and would include a motor vehicle which has as well, two tandem wheels, or three wheels. I understand that three-wheeled vehicles have been tested in the past under the other criteria of this par­ ticular definition

section in The Highway Traffic Act. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that many of these three­ wheeled vehicles are safer than two-wheeled vehicles, particularly for older people or people who have diffi­ culty getting around. Mr. Speaker, I don't believe that they are necessarily just related to transportation for handicapped persons which, I understand, is under review by a committee which the Honourable Minister of Highways and Transportation has established with some representation from his department and physi­ cally handicapped persons.

I hope that the Minister will bring these recommendations from this Commit­ tee to the House for consideration at the next Session and I don't want to interfere with the deliberations at that Committee as it might affect transportation for handicapped persons. I have spoken briefly outside the House to the Minis­ ter of Highways and Transportation and I would ask him to give this bill some consideration and determine what his recommendations are considering the com­ mittee that he has established dealing with transporta­ tion for the physically handicapped. 3610 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Virden. MR.

H. GRAHAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, at the outset I want to assure the former Attorney-General that it is not my intention to adjourn debate. I do want to say, though, that this bill in my opinion

Friday, 25 June, 1982 is one that deserves serious consideration by members of this Assembly. We live in what we like to pride ourselves on as being a permissive society and yet we find that day after day we are constantly contravening that, and for those of us that are fortunate that have our full faculties and facilities to operate. to walk and move around in society, far too often we forget about those less fortunate than ourselves.

This particular bill does provide a means for those less fortunate people who. maybe through fault of their own or fault of someone else, have great difficulty in enjoying the normal benefits of life that you and I are accustomed to. It is only by means of special aids and special equipment that they can attempt to take part to as great a degree as possible in the benefits of this great country that you and I almost take for granted. So I suggest to all honourable members that you think seriously about this because we're not talking about a large number of people.

We're talking about relatively few people who may require special consid­ eration and they are asking for our permission - our permission - to let that happen. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Gov­ ernment Services. HON. S. USKIW: Mr. Speaker. I move. seconded by the Minister of Agriculture, that the debate be adjourned. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R. PENNER: Mr. Speaker. would you please call the Adjourned Debates on Third Readings? ADJOURNED DEBATES ON THIRD READINGS MR.

SPEAKER: Commencing with Bill 20. on the proposed motion of the Honourable Attorney-General, Bill No. 20. Third Reading, standing in the name of the Honourable Member for St. Norbert. (Stand) On the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs. Bill No. 26. (Stand) HON. R. PENNER: The Third Reading of the Amended Bills. Mr. Speaker. 2 and 19. THIRD READING - AMENDED BILLS BILL NO. 2 THE RESIDENTIAL RENT REGULATION ACT HON. R. PENNER presented Bill No. 2.

An Act to amend The Residential Rent Regulation Act,

Loi Sur le Controle du Loyer Des Locaux D'Habitation, for third reading. MOTION presented. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Tuxedo. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker. I move. seconded by the Honourable Member for Virden. that debate 3611 be adjourned. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. BILL NO. 19 THE LANDLORD AND TENANT ACT HON. R. PENNER presented Bill No. 19,

an Act to Amend the Landlord and Tenant Act, for third reading. MOTION presented. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Tuxedo. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for St. Norbert, that debate be adjourned on the bill. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. THIRD READING BILL NO. 40 THE LABOUR RELATIONS ACT HON. R. PENNER presented Bill No. 40,

An Act to Amend The Labour Relations Act, for third reading. MOTION presented. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. MR. G. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for River Heights, that debate be adjourned. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. R. PENNER: Mr. Speaker. would you please call the Proposed Resolution of the Honourable Min­ ister of Municipal Affairs, on page 6, standing in the name of the Member for St. Norbert? (Stand) MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. A. PENNER: Mr.

Speaker, there being no further business on the Order Paper that may usefully be transacted, I move, seconded by the Minister of Gov­ ernment Services. that the House do now stand adjourned. MOTION presented and carried and the House adjourned and stands adjourned until 2:00 p.m. Monday.