May 16, 2001 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 27

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Before we begin our routine proceedings, the Chair would like to welcome to

the gallery today twenty-seven Grade 9 students from Holy Trinity High School in

Heart's Content. They are accompanied by their teachers, Mr. Calvin Young and

Ms. Sharon Peach, along with bus driver, Jude St. George.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I represent a great district where there are

all sorts of things happening, and I am very proud to report to the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize the winners of the

Royal Canadian Legion's essay, poem, and poster contests. The contests were

part of Remembrance Day activities by the provincial command and included

literary and art work from students across the Province.

The Winners for 1999 and 2000 were: Jessica Remedios of Blaketown; Krista

Adams of Labrador City; Tyler Burry of Grand Fall-Windsor; Janelle Dooley of St.

John's; Alfred Chan of Grand Falls-Windsor; Elizabeth Dohey of St. Brides;

Kelly Doyle of Grates Cove; Shelly Hoyles of Deer Lake.

These students will take

part in a Beaumont Hamel Pilgrimage sponsored by the

provincial command of the Royal Canadian Legion. This will include taking

part

in the Beaumont Hamel ceremonies on July 1 and the opening of the Beaumont Hamel

Interpretation Centre.

While in France, the students will also visit other Newfoundland and Labrador

War Memorials including Amiens, Vimy, Bourlon Woods and Monchy-Le-Preux. They

will also visit Newfoundland and Canadian memorials in Belgium and visit the

grave of Colonel John McRae, the author of the famous poem, In Flanders

Fields .

Accompanying this group of students -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. SWEENEY: Accompanying this group of students will be members of the

provincial command: Rex Babstock, Ruby Scholfield, Joseph Kennedy, and Bill

Titford, and four veterans: John Michael Murphy of Carbonear, Richard J. Rideout

of Deer Lake, John M. Benoit of Clarenville, and Tom Leggetter of Eastport.

Along with congratulating the winners of these contests, I want to commend

the Royal Canadian Legion and the veterans involved for their role in making

these important activities possible.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate a young girl, Samantha March. Samantha is eleven

years and is a Grade 5 student at All Hallows School in North River. In addition

to being a superb academic student, she has excelled tremendously in athletics.

She has won MVP at the Provincial Pre-Bantam Volleyball Champions. She has

played hockey at the Bay Arena with the girls under 19 team, and also with Atom

boys house league and All Star teams where she was named player of the game for

one of the games at the recent provincial championships.

Samantha's premier accomplishments, however, come in the sports of

gymnastics where she has been named for all special awards within the provincial

association over the years and has won over 100 gold medals provincially and at

the Atlantic level. She has captured provincial honours at the Level I category

in1999, Level II in 2000, and this year won the Level III category, in 2001.

Recently, she represented Newfoundland at the Atlantic championships, and won

five medals: three gold, one silver, one bronze, one of which was a gold for

overall Atlantic champion acquired by having the highest total score on four

events. Samantha was the Athlete of the Year for gymnastics Newfoundland and

Labrador 1999-2000 and has again been nominated for this award this year.

Samantha has only five years experience in gymnastics -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

- yet, is ready to enter the national competitive scene next year, a level

usually not attained by gymnasts without ten or twelve years experience.

Samantha has been recognized by the national level coaches as very talented and

natural. Samantha has the talent, the attitude, and tremendous dedication.

I am sure I join with members of this House, Mr. Speaker, in wishing her well

in her future endeavors.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House to congratulate

Rob Gladney of Clarenville who has been elected to the Newfoundland and Labrador

Hockey Hall of Fame.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Gladney is one of ten members of the Hall, and will

be inducted during the Newfoundland and Labrador Hockey Association's

semi-annual meeting June 15-17 of this year.

Mr. Speaker, Rob Gladney was drafted by the Toronto Maple Leafs, twenty-fifth

overall in 1977.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: He was a strong defenseman and made his name for

himself with the Oshawa Generals of the then Ontario Hockey Association before

playing in the International Hockey League, as well as in New Brunswick, New

Haven and Baltimore with the American Hockey League. He played his first NHL

game with the Los Angeles Kings in 1982-1983 and played thirteen games with the

Pittsburgh Penguins in 1983-1984, scoring a goal and adding five assists.

Unfortunately, a badly torn retina suffered on December 9, 1983, ended his

career too soon, but he remains one of the few Newfoundlanders to play in the

NHL, leading the way for future NHLers, such as Harold Druken and Daniel Cleary.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all Members of the House of Assembly, I

congratulate Rob Gladney and all nominees for their election into the

Newfoundland and Labrador Hockey Hall of Fame.

Mr. Speaker, I will not take a whole lot of credit but I was one of Rob's

early coaches in his minor hockey years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: I am glad to see he made it all the way to the NHL.

(Inaudible) a very good guy, yes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, with leave of the House I, too, would like to

present a private member's statement.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

MR. TULK: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. LUSH: Today I want to congratulate members of the Glovertown Academy

badminton team on recently winning the AAA Provincial Badminton Championships

held in the Town of Glovertown on May 12.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: The Glovertown Academy team competed against eight other teams

to capture their provincial title in a two-division round-robin format. This is

indeed a great accomplishment and one to be proud of. The provincial team

winners are: Danielle DuChene, Julie Fry, Tonya Fry, Kirsten Harris, William

Hounsell, Adam Howse, Christopher Howse, Logan Marsh, Matthew Parsons, Seeka

Parsons, Samantha Ralph and Andrew Stewart.

Individuals medals were also presented: Samantha Ralph captured the Gold

medal in girl's singles; Adam and Christopher Howse captured the Gold medal in

boy's doubles; and Samantha Ralph and Adam Howse captured the Gold medal in

mixed doubles.

I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that all members want to join me in congratulating

the students of the Glovertown Academy badminton team on this great achievement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform my hon. colleagues that the month of May

has once again been declared Tourism Awareness Month in Newfoundland and

Labrador. This annual public awareness campaign is managed by Hospitality

Newfoundland and Labrador to highlight the importance of the tourism industry in

the Province. Last week, I joined Mr. Roger Jamieson, President of Hospitality

Newfoundland and Labrador, and signed a proclamation to establish May 2001 as

Tourism Awareness Month.

The theme for this year, Tourism is Everybody's Business, shows that

everyone in the Province has a stake in the tourism industry. The unprecedented

growth in visitation that we have been experiencing over the past five years has

not only profited those directly involved in the tourism industry, rather the

entire Province has reaped the benefits of this lucrative industry.

Mr. Speaker, our most recent statistics reveal that over the past five years

Newfoundland and Labrador has experienced close to a 40 per cent increase in

visitation. In 2000, we reached a record 426,250 non-resident visitors, which is

up 3.2 per cent over 1999. Associated spending of these visitors was an

estimated $290 million. Including resident tourism, total tourist expenditures

in the Province was more than $600 million.

I would like to highlight some other important tourism indicators to date for

2001: overall air passenger travel at our six major airports is up 13 per cent;

direct international arrivals is up 17 per cent; car rental revenue has

increased 8 per cent; hotel occupancy rates have increased 13 per cent; and

motorcoach traffic on the Marine Atlantic is on par with last year, and an

improvement in ferry services has resulted in increased capacity and consumer

confidence.

Mr. Speaker, clearly these early indicators point to another successful year

in 2001. With an increased awareness of the Province, new meeting and convention

capacity with the opening of the St. John's Civic Centre, which our government

supported, our Receiving the World celebrations and other new products and

capacity coming on stream, we are well-positioned for continued growth.

It is no secret that the growth in our tourism industry is the result of hard

work by many and the partnerships created in the industry. One of the most

successful of these partnerships has been between Hospitality Newfoundland and

Labrador and the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation. These two

organizations have worked closely to strengthen the tourism product and ensure

that we draw maximum benefit for the citizens of this Province. Another

important partnership is that with Human Resources Development Canada. Last year

there was an impressive 72 per cent increase in registrations for professional

certification in this Province. Our 5,000 tourism professionals in this Province

have now participated in the SuperHost Atlantic program and increasing numbers

are participating in new programs such as TaxiHost, Service Excellence, Value

Added Customer Service and Teamwork Skills.

During Tourism Awareness Month, Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador will

present many awards. These awards are a key component of Tourism Awareness Month

because they recognize individuals and groups who, through their careers,

private lives or volunteer work, show dedication to the promotion of the

Province and tourism. One such group is the Junior Men's World Curling

Champions, the Brad Gushue Rink, who recently received the Ambassador of

Hospitality Award from Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, I

would also ask my hon. colleagues to make an effort to recognize the individuals

in their respective districts and throughout the Province who are involved in

our tourism industry, and encourage them to continue to be ambassadors for our

tourism industry.

I would like to inform everyone that this year we have an award winning

advertising campaign. This year new advertising creative development resulted in

a new Travel Guide, Outdoor Adventure Guide, print ads and an exciting

television ad campaign. This campaign just recently won a gold, a silver, and

two bronze medals at the annual Hospitality Sales and Marketing Association

International Summit Awards held in New York.

Mr. Speaker, all of these initiatives, along with the Province's Special

Celebration program, our core destination marketing efforts and innovative

advertising campaigns, have helped us reach a point where our competitors are

starting to stand up and take a close look at how we are doing things right. We

have the people, the product and the Province that will insure that our vibrant

tourism industry continues to grow.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Any good news for the tourism industry is good news for the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. YOUNG: There are major opportunities in this sector that we have only

just begun to exploit.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have stressed time and again that it is critical that government promote

all communities in small rural areas and not put all of its eggs in one basket

each year by focusing only on special celebrations.

The Viking celebrations were held just last year, yet it took quite a bit of

pressure to get funding to keep the village going just one year after those

celebrations, so there is a continuity problem. You cannot go cutting

communities loose or leaving them hanging out to dry for the lack of planning.

Finally, I would like to give the government a piece of advice today. Let's

not miss the change to invest now in the transportation, municipal and

recreational infrastructure our rural communities need if they are going to

bring in tourists.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, would like to congratulate all of the hard-working people in the

hospitality and tourism industry. I say to the minister that over the past

number of years tourism has been on the increase, but we have had some big

ticket items. Items such as the Cabot 500, Soiree `99, Viking 2000 and this year's

Receiving The World.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a request to the minister on behalf of the

Council of Labrador. The Labrador City Council wrote the minister a little while

ago suggesting that next year, 2002, a Labrador theme be adopted as a focal

point for tourism in the Province, and I hope the minister will take that under

consideration. In order to do that, Mr. Speaker, we also need more

infrastructure in tourism to make sure that we attract more visitors to the

Province - and not only attract them - that is only half the battle. The other

half is to get them to come back and get them to spread the word about the good

treatment they received in the Province -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: - and hopefully keep coming back in years that we do not

have major celebrations.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my hon. colleagues of the

Department of Education's commitment to maintaining a highly qualified teacher

work force in every school district throughout the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: This year, for the first time in our history, the Department of

Education along with Memorial University, the Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers'

Association, the Newfoundland and Labrador School Boards Association, and school

districts have organized a provincial teacher recruitment fair. This initiative

stems from recommendations of the Ministerial Panel on Educational Delivery in

the Classroom. The job fair will take place today and tomorrow at the St. John's

Campus of Memorial University.

The teacher job fair is intended to provide districts with an opportunity to

profile job opportunities and related information for students graduating from

Memorial, and any other interested teachers or individuals considering entry

into the profession. Each school district, the NLTA, Memorial's Faculty of

Education and the Department of Education will host information booths. School

districts will undertake presentations and interviews during the job fair.

Mr. Speaker, the provincial teacher job fair is only one of several

initiatives being planned to address teacher recruitment in Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Recognizing the challenge of ensuring qualified instruction in classrooms in

Coastal Labrador, government has allocated a $5,000 financial supplement to

teachers working in this area. This is in addition to the Labrador allowance

already being received by those teachers.

In response to a recommendation of the Ministerial Panel Report on

Educational Delivery in the Classroom, the Department of Education has

established a provincial advisory group on teacher training, supply, and demand.

This advisory group has membership from the Department of Education, Memorial

University, school districts, the NLTA, and the School Boards Association. The

group is developing an action plan to address the current and anticipated

situation with teacher supply and demand. In addition to the provincial teacher

job fair, which we anticipate will become an annual event, the advisory group is

working on initiatives to attract students into the Faculty of Education from

other faculties at Memorial University, particularly in areas of French,

physics, chemistry, math, and special education.

Meanwhile, the Department of Education, through the Council of Ministers of

Education, is collaborating with other departments of education across Canada to

develop strategies that will ensure a constant supply of highly qualified

teachers in all subject areas across the country.

Mr. Speaker, this represents a significant commitment to the children and

teachers of our Province. Initiatives in the area of teacher supply and demand

represent another clear example of our government's willingness to collaborate

fully with other partners in education to maintain a first class system of

education for our children.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would thank the minister for sending along an advance copy of her

Ministerial Statement. I say to the minister, Mr. Speaker, that certainly a job

fair whereby we are encouraging people to come out and find out what the

situation is with regard to employment in the teaching profession in

Newfoundland and Labrador is - and to encourage them to be teachers; because I

can say that teachers are indeed a very important part of this fabric of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

I would say to the minister, Mr. Speaker, that I just hope it is not too

late. I notice that in the second line, this is the first time that this has

been done. I assume that the Ministerial Panel that she is referring to is the

one that was put together in 1992 - ten years ago - which clearly stated that

there had to be something done to ensure that there would be qualified teachers

to replace the teachers who would be retiring in the nineties and on into the

first century of the millennium.

During the nineties, as we all know, there have been many cases where young

teacher graduates have been forced to leave this Province to go elsewhere,

because of the heavy debt that they had. They are now in Mainland positions, and

I doubt very much that they will return.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HEDDERSON: I say to the minister that I just hope it is certainly not

too late.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A job fair is a good idea. It gives graduating students an opportunity to see

what the options are in this Province. But, I say, it seems more like a

pre-emptive strike, Mr. Speaker, because a couple of years ago we say nursing

students, for example, organize their own job fair and bring recruiters in from

across the country and North America because they were not satisfied with their

incomes.

Here, Mr. Speaker, we have a situation where the government has not done a

very good job in keeping student debt levels low and, as a result, students feel

that they have to go where they are going to get the highest dollars in order to

pay off their student loans. A real incentive for students to stay in

Newfoundland, most of whom want to stay in Newfoundland, is to the reduce the

student debt load so that they can stay here -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: - pay off their student debt, and live in the Province where

they want to live and where they were educated.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the hon. the Premier. Yesterday, or earlier this

week, government tabled Bill 10,

An Act Respecting The Citizens'

Representative.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier was a candidate and, while being a candidate for the

leadership of the Liberal Party, promised to strengthen the Freedom of

Information Act, and promised to introduce the act respecting an Ombudsperson,

which is now called a Citizens' Representative. As I read - as we read - this

act, it is very clear that what it contains primarily is what the Citizens'

Representative cannot do as opposed to what it should be doing.

I would like to ask the Premier this question: One of the major problems the

current Freedom of Information Act has is that there is no authority that can

review a decision to review, access the information, under the act after the

Ombudsman was axed in 1990. Why does this legislation prevent the Citizens'

Representative from investigating decisions to refuse access to information

under the Freedom of Information Act? Why is it, and why would government want

that contained in this very important piece of legislation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

MR. PARSONS: With regard, first of all, Mr. Speaker, as to who read or

did not read Bill 10, after hearing some of the comments of the Leader of the

Opposition yesterday at second reading, I wonder myself if he indeed did read it

or if it was a (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Freedom of Information Act

provision, as the Opposition knows, as the public of this Province knows,

government committed to a review of the Freedom of Information Act in December,

2000. In fact, a committee was struck to review that piece of legislation, with

suggestions as to what could be done to improve it; it being twenty years old

and not having been revised during that twenty year period.

The committee has reported to me on a preliminary basis. Their written report

will be submitted in June of this year. That report will be made immediately

available to the public upon it being rendered by the committee. It is fully

anticipated, and based upon the preliminary comments to me from Chairman Dawe of

that committee, that one of the recommendations, one of the missing pieces of

our Freedom of Information legislation right now, is the lack of a review

commissioner.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer.

MR. PARSONS: One of the missing pieces of the Freedom of Information Act

is the lack of a review mechanism other than going directly to the Supreme Court

Trial Division. We fully anticipate that will be one of the recommendations of

the committee that will be implemented. Hence, the Freedom of Information Act

will have its own review mechanism and it won't need to done by the Ombudsman

bill.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to take his seat.

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, if this act goes through the way it is, this

should be called the Cabinet's Representative not the Citizens'

Representative.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Let me ask the minister this question. In terms of reading,

section 19 says and indicates that the minister has complete discretion - in

other words, absolute veto power - to say to the Citizens' Representative:

Yes, you can investigate this. No, you cannot investigate that.

Do you consider that

section a hallmark of transparency and accountability,

Minister?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Again, Mr. Speaker, it is quite evident that whatever review

the Leader of the Opposition has done on Bill 10, he has certainly done no

comparison with any other jurisdictions in this country.

We have not created or invented anything new in Bill 10. Bill 10 is a

comprehensive package of what existed in the earlier Parliamentary Commissioner

bill, plus the other jurisdictions of this country. There is not one new

invention - if you want to put it that way - to give anybody any powers or

authorities that do not exist in any jurisdiction in this country.

I look forward in committee, or wherever in this Province, to showing the

people of this Province just how comprehensive this piece of legislation is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. PARSONS: I look forward to showing the people of this Province that

this piece of legislation is intended to be, and will be, open, transparent, and

the best piece of legislation. It is not a Cabinet representative bill at all.

It is a representative of the people of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the minister can make a grandiose statement

all he wants. Let me give him the opportunity to put his money where his month

is. If the minister of this government is so convinced that this legislation is

so good, if he is so convinced that it will stand up to the light of day in

public scrutiny, let's you and I publicly debate it outside this Chamber. Let's

put this piece of legislation -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, will he commit to put this piece of

legislation to a legislative review committee that will demonstrate clearly that

this government is more interested in hiding the facts than presently them?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like for the Leader of the Opposition to consider the possible

contradiction in what he has just asked of the government. I will give him

credit for one thing. Ever since I had the privilege to know him and work with

him here in the Legislature - because I consider it that - he has been

consistent in one thing: He has consistently asked for opportunities to debate

issues that are important to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in this

Legislature, right here in this Legislature.

Now we have the circumstance where the same person, the same Leader of the

Opposition, who has a bill before this Legislature, which he now recognizes,

that contrary to the commitment that he gave when he made a very good speech on

the day of the Throne Speech where he said: This Opposition will take their

responsibility seriously. We will challenge the government, Mr. Speaker. We will

take our role seriously, but we will not unduly obstruct.

What we are finding, and there is a full day of debate in committee, he has

had his full say in second reading, is that - we are not allowed to talk about

lies in this Legislature, so I will not.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I can tell you this: He already knows, in

looking at his statements from yesterday and the questions he is asking today,

that there is no substance to what he is saying, that he is dead wrong. He is

trying to misrepresent what is in the Citizens' Representative Bill. There is

a full opportunity to finish the debate here, but if he wants to delay it so

that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador do not have the services of a

Citizens' Representative for another full year -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. Premier to get to his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: - then ask again in committee tomorrow as to what the

plans will be.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I want to be clear. Now, is this the walking

political contradiction personified right in the Premier's chair, talking

about me?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Is this the same Premier who takes a policy position one

day, changes it the next, calling me a walking political contradiction? I cannot

believe what I just heard, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. He knows there ought not to be a

preamble. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, it is clear. This bill speaks for itself - the

restrictions. The question is this. It is more full of restrictions telling the

Citizens' Representative what it cannot do as opposed to what it can do. How

is it? Why is it? Let me ask the minister this, Mr. Speaker: Why is it that this

minister has complete and ultimate discretion to fire at any time, to hire at

any time?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to quickly get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: The question is this: Why is government asking us, as a

Legislature, to hire the Citizens' Representative but at the same time if

government deems that this person is acting inappropriately, that they can fire

without coming back to this House? Answer that question, minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: For the record, Mr. Speaker, this minister is not into

making grandiose or misleading statements.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: This minister will and is fully prepared to debate this bill

where it ought to be debated, in the House of the people, right here!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Again, I refer the Leader of the Opposition and I would

advise him very strongly: read the bill. Nowhere in Bill 10 does it make any

suggestion whatsoever that this Cabinet of this government or any other

government, can fire an Ombudsman or a Citizens' Representative; nowhere. I

challenge the Leader of the Opposition to point out to me where it says in Bill

10 that a Cabinet has the authority to fire an Ombudsman. It is not there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, a very serious issue pertaining to the Province's water

supply. On three occasions this week we have received inaccurate information

about the state of the Province's water supply. One was the Web site

information received by the media and the general public. The second was

information provided by the minister when he said all municipalities had

bacteria testing on a monthly basis. Government officials confirmed today that

this is not accurate because towns without chlorination are not tested. The

third was the boil order advisories released today, and these are not all

accurate. Town officials are not always trained to interpret this information,

even when it is accurate.

Does the minister have any plans to improve the method in which information

is delivered to the people of this Province so they would receive information in

a timely and accurate fashion?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I welcome the question from the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, and I am quite

pleased that he is raising this water issue; for at least a week now. It is

great for the people of the Province to hear those questions raised. I just want

to say that last fall my colleague, now the Minister of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs, had announced in Gander about the $100,000 grant that we were giving to

municipalities to improve, repair and install new chlorination into their

system.

I guess, Mr. Speaker, if this debate continues until this summer, I think

that the member opposite will finally realize that we, on this side of the

House, are doing the right thing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, this is important. That statement that

the member made was that there are no checks made on where there is no

chlorination. Thank God, it is getting through; because what we have said: where

there is inadequate chlorination, where there is no chlorination, we

automatically put on a boil order. I hope he is starting to understand.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Last night, Mr. Speaker, we learned that there are at

least seventy-six communities in the Province that have bacteria counts above

Canadian standards, and those are only coming from the ones that are tested. It

is much higher than that. Some of them have ten or twenty times higher the

bacteria.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, let me ask this: Because people are brushing

their teeth with this water, washing their hands, washing food and so on, why is

it the minister does not take the responsibility of informing the public so that

the people of this Province are aware of the issues that affect their health and

safety? It is the Province that is responsible for public health, not

municipalities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I think it is becoming quite obvious now that the Opposition does not have a

lot to go on. They are trying to fearmonger in terms of the water supplies in

this Province. They know full well that this government is being very

responsible when it comes to our water supply, very, very responsible. They also

know, Mr. Speaker, that the municipalities have a responsibility, who are in

charge of those water supplies. They know all of that, but yet day after day

they rise in -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Do members want to continue with Question Period, or do they want to just

debate across the House? If members want to continue with Question Period then I

ask that they give the hon. minister the courtesy to answer the question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I believe that the members opposite are just doing this because they

themselves do not really understand the situation so they want to get an

education.

Mr. Speaker, I have offered, the people in my department have offered, the

Department of Health has offered, and the Department of Government Services and

Lands has offered, to brief these people, if they do not understand. Now they

tell me that they have been briefed. I forgot, they have been briefed on the

situation, Mr. Speaker. We are fully and completely being responsible. I say

again: We are doing the right thing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's

South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is nobody fearmongering here. Mr. Speaker, this is a serious issue. It

concerns people's public health and safety. There are communities in this

Province that do not even have the water supplies tested for bacteria because

they are on boil orders.

Mr. Speaker, I will ask the minister this: Don't these people in these

communities that don't even have bacteria tests done, deserve the right to

know what they are drinking, what bacteria, what coliforms, what pathogens may

be contained in the water that they are drinking?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very clear indication that they do not understand. We have said

that, where there are no chlorination or inadequate chlorination, a boil order

is automatically put in place. We have put in place funding, a $100,000 grant

for people who want to put in a chlorination system. We are working with the

communities around the Province, Mr. Speaker. It is an open application. They

apply to the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. We are doing

training programs across this Province. We were in Gander a couple of months

ago. We had a conference that over 350 people attended. We are doing all of

these things, Mr. Speaker, to help the people in the situation that they are in.

We are an open government. We are here and we are doing what we can, where we

can, and we will continue to do so.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday in the House, the Deputy Premier was asked directly whether the

government would make a commitment that before a Voisey's Bay deal is signed,

final and binding, that the government will bring it to this Legislature for

debate and put it before the people of the Province so they can see and comment

on what is in the deal. Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Premier answered quite simply by

saying: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier, while he was Minister of Mines and Energy, on November 29 and

November 30, and again on December 6, 1999, was asked the very same question

here in this House and all three times he said, Mr. Speaker, no.

I would like to ask the Premier to tell the people of the Province, for the

record today, Mr. Premier: Will you make a commitment that before the government

signs a final and binding Voisey's Bay development deal, the government will

put that deal before the people of the Province for scrutiny and input and bring

it to this Legislature for debate?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognizing that there is likely to be a supplementary, maybe I would suggest

first that the hon. member -

MR. E. BYRNE: Answer the question. (Inaudible).

PREMIER GRIMES: I will answer the question, Mr. Speaker.

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) we will give (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, let me say this: I know he is particularly

sensitive today. He is not having a good day and he should read the bill. Bill

10 would be the real answer, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I would ask that the critic for Mines and

Energy maybe check with the Leader of the Opposition, based upon what he said

today about wanting to debate outside the Legislature, whether he really wants

to ask the question he just asked. Do you want the debate in the Legislature or

not? Because on Bill 10 he wants to have the debate outside the Legislature, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier reminds me of the question: Are you an indecisive person? And the

response being: Well, Sir, yes and no.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I ask the Premier, Mr. Speaker: What is it? Is it the

position that his Minister of Mines and Energy has alluded to? Is it the

position of yesterday, of the Deputy Premier? Or, is it his position of 1999?

What is it, Premier? How will this issue be determined once and for all? Will

the people of this Province be a part of this very significant public issue?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I commend the hon. member on his perfect and very apt description of the

Opposition today -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: - because they do not know which particular view they

want to take.

Mr. Speaker, let the record be very clear on this issue. With respect to

Voisey's Bay or any other issue of significance and importance in Newfoundland

and Labrador, this government's insistence is that the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador will know the details of anything that is done; and they will be

convinced by knowing the details, Mr. Speaker, in every public, possible way,

whether it is inside or outside of the Legislature, whatever is most appropriate

at the time. They will be convinced because they will see the details. We want

them to know the details because then the fearmongering and the criticism of the

Opposition will be exposed for what it is. They are frightened to death to see

something that is good for Newfoundland and Labrador happen. They do not want it

to happen. The people of Newfoundland and Labrador will see the details inside

or outside the Legislature, and we will insist upon it because we know that when

they see the details in a deal that is good for Newfoundland and Labrador they

will fully endorse and support the initiatives that government takes on their

behalf.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It won't surprise the Premier that I have exactly the same question as the

Member for St. John's East, because the Premier has not answered it. The

question, simply put, is this: Will the Premier, and this government, present to

the people a done deal, one that it is already committed to, before they are

entitled to pass judgement on it? Or will this government present to the people

of this Province, and to this Legislature, a proposed deal on which they can

pass judgement before this government has committed itself, and has committed

the people of this Province forever and a day to a deal? That is the question,

simply put.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have answered the question and the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador will know the full details of any deal.

My only hope, and the hope of this particular government Administration, is

that we are fortunate enough to be able to get a good deal for Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians to present to them -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: - rather than sit there and be stymied like the

opposition parties would like to occur.

I am delighted to see the hon. member, now that he has his concerns raised in

the capital of the country, in Ottawa, about water in the Great Lakes, and what

might happen to that with respect to that bill, that he went off and felt it was

so important to make representation about on behalf of his constituents and his

party, I am glad he is back here asking some questions about issues that are

relevant to Newfoundland and Labrador, because the Great Lakes aren't.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, the Premier talks about hopes; I want to talk

about fears. The fear of the people of this Province is that this government is

going to commit itself before the people know what the deal is all about, and

before they pass judgement on it.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier say that the public discussion, public debate

and public consultation will take place before this government has committed the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador, or after?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me just say again, very simply: We will work very diligently to try to

accomplish an arrangement that allows for maximum benefits for Newfoundland and

Labrador in this project or any other, and we give the commitment that publicly,

inside or outside this Legislature, wherever is the most appropriate place at

the point in time that we would hopefully have something to present to them,

that we would make sure that everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador knows

exactly what we are doing on their behalf.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

The town and the people of Bay Bulls were given a commitment by the

Department of Fisheries, and the former minister, that a processing licence in

their community would not be transferred without consultation with the town. I

want to ask the minister: Why did his department break that commitment to the

people of Bay Bulls?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the hon. member knows, we are currently reviewing the licensing policy of

the Department of Fisheries. Once we have that done, we will let everybody in

the Province know what our stand is on all licences.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In Twillingate, in the minister's district, the licence was offered to

another processor and remained in the town. I might add, this did not happen in

Bay Bulls even though the town has indicated that there were other processors

interested in setting up business in that particular community. I want to ask

the minister: When these decisions were made, what was the policy of his

department?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad that he brought up the issue of Twillingate, because he stood

across the floor just a few weeks ago and told me that I had to do something for

Twillingate.

I understand that his new leader, who does not sit on that side of the floor

but sits in the gallery, also said to the people of Twillingate, when he met

with them two weeks ago, that what I did was the right thing for the people of

Twillingate.

Like I said, once we conduct a review you will certainly know what happens.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

He listens to me when I say for Twillingate but he does not listen for Bay

Bulls. Is that what the minister is telling me?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: He listens to me. Well, do it for Bay Bulls what you did

for Twillingate.

I want to ask the minister. The officials in his department said and told the

town that it was advertised. They could not find anywhere it was advertised,

that this happened. In fact, it was not in the last three years. If it was

advertised, would the minister tell me? Where was it? In the Honolulu Guardian?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not read the Honolulu Guardian. I did not have the opportunity to fly to

Honolulu as you did.

But, like I said, we are currently reviewing the licensing policy of the

Department of Fisheries. We had some 220-odd fish plant licences out there. We

have cut that down to 125. If you are suggesting that we should go out and issue

a whole bunch of new fish processing licences, we are not about to do that, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands.

MR. NOEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As directed by

section 56(1) of the Automobile Insurance Act as amended, I

would like to table our Annual Report of the Board of Commissioners of Public

Utilities on the Operations Carried Out Under The Automobile Insurance Act, as

amended for the Period April 1, 2000 to March 31, 2001.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: Today being Wednesday, it is Private Members' Day and it

is the resolution put forward by the hon. Leader of the Opposition.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to see that every member opposite had their Wheaties at the

caucus meeting this morning because that is apparently what is taking place.

For the record, I say to the Minister of Justice,

section 7 of your bill

outlines clearly how you have the right to fire or suspend the Citizens'

Representative when the House is not in session. It absolutely says it, Mr.

Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: That's true!

MR. MERCER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Boys, read the bill. You cannot make a silk purse out of a

sow's ear, I say to the Member for Humber East.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the private members' resolution put forward today speaks for

itself. It calls for government and this House of Assembly to urge the current

Premier to move towards, immediately, not almost suddenly, to go to the

Lieutenant-Governor and call an election. This was not put forward without some

thought, obviously.

Every Member in this House, particularly on the opposite side of the House,

with the exception of the Member for Trinity North who was elected in a

by-election, every member on the government side part of the 1999 general

election, were part of a team that campaigned on a promise, on a number of

promises. One of the big ticket items during that election was the debate

surrounding Voisey's Bay. During that election, Mr. Speaker, it was

unequivocal. It was clear that the then Leader of the Liberal Party, and

subsequent Premier of the Liberal Party, said let me be clear when asked the

question - and it is contained in the Red Book as well - about the shipment of

ore from Voisey's Bay: Not a spoonful, not an ounce of ore will go from Voisey's

Bay.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we passed legislation. Members who sat in this House,

particularly before the election in the fall of 1998, while this debate started

to reach important political heights, sat in this Legislature, debated a piece

of legislation that the mining community had significant problems with, but it

was Voisey's Bay legislation. It was aimed at, indicating in a very strong way

from this Legislature, sending the nickel (inaudible) a message. The motive

technology, whether it was the traditional smelter refining or some new process,

was not an issue. It is not an issue for us. It has never been an issue for us.

What was at issue was: would there be any raw material shipped out of this

Province? During the debates, particularly in the fall of 1991 when legislation

was passed in this House unanimously, I might add, then Minister of Mines and

Energy who is now the current Premier, Government House Leader, the Minister of

Education, every minister and member who sat in this Legislature in 1998, then

supported that legislation.

During the election, they heralded publicly their stance and sold it to the

people of the Province. That was part and parcel of their mandate, a significant

part of their mandate. Today, if you read the address made by the current

Minister of Mines and Energy at the Board of Trade, they are firmly commited to

the possibility of sending unprocessed ore out of this Province. I believe it

was yesterday that a former member of this House, a former Member for Labrador

West, Mr. Canning, was unequivocal in his public statement about the shipment of

ore, and why it should not happen. The Member for Port de Grave, who sits in

this House, was unequivocal in a televised leadership debate, said to the now

Premier: Come on, Roger, you want to ship ore out of this Province. The former

Member of Humber West - and if the Premier ever has the backbone to call the

by-election we will see who the next member will be. If the Premier has the

stomach to call a by-election -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Now, Mr. Speaker, the former Member for Humber West, a

former Minister of Mines and Energy, also said the same thing.

We are presented, and the people of the Province have been presented with a

very unusual situation. Since 1949 there have been four changes in a party

leadership that resulted in the new leader also becoming Premier. In 1979, it

was Frank Moores to Brian Peckford. Within 100 days of Brian Peckford assuming

the premiership he called an election and looked for his own mandate, and

received it.

In 1989, the second occurrence, Peckford resigned. Tom Rideout, former

Premier, became leader of our party and Premier, and called an election within

days. The Liberal Party subsequently won that election.

The third occurrence, since Confederation, was when Mr. Clyde Wells resigned.

Enter into the picture, one Brian Tobin. Within thirty days of being installed

in the Premier's chair, only eighteen months after the 1993 election -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: No, boy. After the 1993 election, George, you were an EA

somewhere then. You have no idea of what I was saying then. For God's sake,

boy. There was no complaint about that, whatsoever.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Stick to making members' statements and you will be okay.

Let me give you some advice.

On February 22, Brian Tobin wanted his own mandate. He had three-and-a-half

years left, but he knew what to do. He wanted his own mandate, and he received

it.

Mr. Speaker, the fourth occurrence was recently. When in 2001 Mr. Tobin

announced his resignation, the Member for Bonavista North became an interim

Premier, caretaker, a good constituent of mine. He had a sign on his lawn for a

week before someone took it down, the last time I might add.

MR. TULK: Is that right?

MR. E. BYRNE: That's true. Someone took it down. It was up there for

five days. I did not. I was on the bus in Port aux Basques, here or there.

Someone else put it up there.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Not me. It was up there and we even have pictures to prove

it.

He was an interim Premier, fair enough. In 2001 the Member for Exploits wins

the leadership convention and is now Premier.

The truth and reality that we are faced with, and the question that many

people in the Province are asking is: How could the current Premier have sat in

the former Cabinet of former Premier Brian Tobin when he had such significant

policy differences on the fundamental issues? A policy difference on Voisey's

Bay. He is committed to shipping out ore.

He said in this Legislature to me one day: I would like to ask the Leader of

the Opposition, he said: If I give you a nickel today, loan you a nickel today,

and you give it back to me sometime later, does that mean I still have a nickel?

What he is talking about is a promise, at some point in the future, of getting

that back to be processed here. That is what he is talking about.

Ask the people in Marystown, who work at Friede Goldman, about the promises

that this government has signed. Ask them about that. The point is: How could

this Premier have sat and supported that legislation passed in 1998, when the

moment, the very moment, just seven to twelve days after becoming Premier, he

goes to Voisey's Bay and says: Let's open up negotiations. Let's start to

look at where we can find some common ground - with a commitment publicly. Both

the current Minister of Mines and Energy and the Premier talking about shipping

it out; completely different from the mandate. Well folks, that is not lost on

the people out there. You may think it is. You want to get up and make great

speeches today in this House talking about what the real commitment was, but

that is not lost on the people outside this Chamber. They know it.

The right thing to do, on that issue alone, is that if you have a significant

policy difference - I said in response to the Speech from the Throne, that this

government has the legal right to negotiate a contract, but I did not believe

they had the political right -

AN HON. MEMBER: Or moral right.

MR. E. BYRNE: - or moral right to impose a contract; that's why.

It was interesting today, I say to my colleagues, when the Member for St.

John's East asked the question, that this Opposition has asked five times, it

was the fifth question. On three separate occasions I asked the Premier, who was

then Minister of Mines and Energy, in the fall of 1999, after the general

election of 1999: Will you make a commitment that any deal that you believe you

are going to sign, before you sign it, before it is final and binding on the

people of the Province, that you will bring a proposed deal to this Legislature,

and that you will bring a proposed deal to the people of the Province? No, was

his answer. I asked him the next day again. He said: No, we are under no

obligation to do so. We are the government, we can proceed. Six days later I

asked him again. He said: No matter what the Leader of the Opposition asks on

this issue - do you know what he said - the answer is still no.

Yesterday, in his absence, I asked the Leader of the Government, who was the

Deputy Premier, he stood to his chair and muttered three very important words.

He tried to be cute. He tried to mock the question. He got up and said: Yes, Mr.

Speaker. Then he sat down. Now, today I asked him: Well this is a significant

policy shift, are you sure? I asked it again. He said: We will hide nothing.

But, he did say: Yes, that before an agreement is signed that -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Oh, I have read it. The problem is you want to put a

particular spin on it. You said it.

The Member for St. John's East, the critic for Mines and Energy, asked the

Premier today: Did he make the same commitment? No. What is clear -

MR. TULK: He never said that.

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, he did. I will use words are important, that he used

that day, because, Mr. Speaker, it is clear that if he feels, as Premier, there

is an agreement that sends ore outside the Province, and whatever other factors

he is going to negotiate, that he feels is in the best interests of the

Province, he is going to sign it before anyone else has a change to debate it.

That is the indication. You can laugh all you want. I recall in this

Legislature, for about a year- and-a-half, for about nine months -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Before you go, can I ask you a question?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: I have watched this approach since I have become Leader of

the Opposition. For six months I asked questions on Lower Churchill and watched

the laughs and all that sort of stuff. Let me ask you: Where is the construction

on the Lower Churchill that you promised? Where is that to? All the questions

that I asked on that being mocked by the Deputy Premier, being mocked by who was

then the Government House Leader, and other members opposite, asking us what we

are afraid of. One big public relations scam; that is what your government has

amounted to. Mr. Speaker -

MR. COLLINS: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Absolutely. You are absolutely right, I say to the Member

for Labrador West.

Now, on bulk water export, here is the real - you want to see a crowd like a

twisting top. Amazing! In the fall of 1999 - this was after the election now -

we debated in this House a major public issue. The former Premier, Mr. Tobin,

comes to the conclusion there will be no bulk export of water. Now, that was

reported at the Newfoundland hotel.

MR. BARRETT: That was wrong.

MR. E. BYRNE: Well, you did not say it then. Why didn't you say it

then?

MR. BARRETT: I said it then.

MR. E. BYRNE: Backbone of a jellyfish; that is why you did not say it

then.

MR. BARRETT: Check Hansard.

MR. E. BYRNE: You did not say it then.

MR. BARRETT: Check CBC.

MR. E. BYRNE: You did not. I recall CBC reporting how you were supporting

bulk export and ten minutes later, after your pre-taped - he had not made a

decision then. They said: This is Percy Barrett reporting from slightly outside

the loop. Because that is what happened. That was pre-taped in the morning. The

Premier did not have the courtesy to phone you.

MR. BARRETT: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Mercer): Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. BARRETT: I want to set the record straight. The hon. member is not

having a good day because he is being very inaccurate today. To start with, he

talked about eighteen months, between April of 1993 and February of 1996.

According to my mathematics, it is twenty-eight months.

The other thing is that this member is on record in Hansard -

MR. T. OSBORNE: (Inaudible) suits, you are going to be in Cabinet five

times.

MR. BARRETT: Can Sir Gisborne be quite, please?

This member is on record in this House as supporting the Gisborne Lake

proposal as it was constituted, not some dreamed up thing that the hon. Member

for St. John's South had talked about. We will get a chance in the debate to

talk about that. The hon. member is not having a good day, so I just want to set

the record straight that this hon. member was on a different side of the fence

than the former Premier.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Now, back to the major public policy issue. It went so far

as we saw another piece of legislation introduced in the House by then Premier,

Brian Tobin, banning bulk exports in this Province.

MR. J. BYRNE: Who supported that?

MR. E. BYRNE: The current Premier did. All of the Cabinet who were there

then did. I don't believe you were in the House, were you? Did you support

that legislation? We asked for a Division, and I believe you left that day. He

might have left. He did leave, actually. I do know.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: No, he was not here. I do know that, boys; he was not here.

We called for a Division vote. Everyone stood, the entire Liberal leadership and

the government ministers stood and applauded: Yes, yes, yes. Now, so -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. E. BYRNE: Hold on now. Another major, major public policy issue.

Shortly after -

MR. J. BYRNE: He voted for it.

MR. E. BYRNE: He did?

MR. J. BYRNE: I am pretty sure.

MR. E. BYRNE: Well, we will have to check the record. Did he vote for it?

MR. T. OSBORNE: He voted for it.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: You voted for the legislation? Oh, and I was going to give

the member the benefit of the doubt. Alright, he voted for the legislation.

Well, thank you for correcting me, I say. I appreciate it very much. I was

trying to give the Member for Bellevue the benefit of the doubt.

There is the Minister of Youth Services.

MR. BARRETT: Words are important.

MR. E. BYRNE: They are.

There she is over there. This is the same minister who stood up and applauded

on the legislation on Voisey's Bay, who the former Premier made seven trips to

her district to get her elected. When the KIXX's reporter asked the question,

she was there. Now, would she care to get up and answer what her position is on

Voisey's Bay now? Does she support ore leaving the Province? She is gone quiet

all of a sudden. I wonder why? Gone quiet all of a sudden.

Now, back to bulk water. Shortly after the current Premier became the

Premier, what does he say? First of all, lets keep in mind there have been four

shifts in three months, less than 100 days. First of all, supports the ban of

bulk water. Secondly, he says he is going to ship bulk water and linked it to

university tuition. We are going to get $20 million a month. Then when asked,

Mr. Speaker, where he got the numbers from, he could not tell us; don't know.

When asked, did he negotiate an agreement with Ottawa that there would be no

clawback: No, don't know. Now, after that happened he came around and said,

no, we are only trying to reopen the debate; third shift, just trying to reopen

the debate. Then this week, while in Atlanta, what happens? This is something we

probably should do; back again.

Mr. Speaker, I know I only have a couple of minutes left. I am not sure how

much time I have left.

AN HON. MEMBER: Two minutes.

MR. E. BYRNE: Two minutes.

There are other issues and other aspects of this Private Member's

Resolution that we will talk to, but I will speak to two of those first and I

will clue up when my opportunity comes to clue up.

I want to leave you with this message. You may sit here smug, you may sit

here believing that you are acting in the best interests of the people of the

Province, but they are ahead of you. They know that you came to government on a

certain platform. They also know what you are doing right now. We also know -

and you know it, because you have to be looking at the same polls that we are

looking at. They have to be. They are not waving them in the air like they used

to, are they? No polls coming out before this Tory Convention, was there?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Oh! Stay tuned. We will see. We will see.

AN HON. MEMBER: It is obvious that you are more interested in your own

political future than you are about the people of this Province.

MR. E. BYRNE: Can you believe it?

AN HON. MEMBER: The man in the Gallery is.

MR. E. BYRNE: What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that this government got

elected on a certain policy initiative, and after this Premier becomes Premier,

this government begins to move radically in another direction. Now, the question

is: Do they really believe that they are going to get away with it? The time and

the clock is ticking. The question is: When will they have the gumption to call

an election and have the gumption, Mr. Speaker, and the intestinal fortitude, to

put what they truly believe on paper, put it to the people of the Province and

let them have their say?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I said yesterday, when the Leader of the

Opposition introduced the resolution, and I said it rather intemperately, that

this was the most convoluted resolution that was every presented to this House,

and I said that it probably would not be presented in any other Legislature in

Canada. I just want to comment on that for a moment. I do not want to dwell on

that because I want to get into the substance of the motion. But I would say,

Mr. Speaker, that it is one of the most convoluted resolutions that I have seen

presented in this House. I have never heard or seen a group in such a rush to

get into an election. The arrogance demonstrated, Mr. Speaker-

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LUSH: Now, let me say, I listened to the hon. gentleman and I never

said a word. I listened and I would like to be extended the same courtesy, Mr.

Speaker, as I think my way through this inane resolution.

Mr. Speaker, there are other jurisdictions throughout the country that have

regulations regarding their resolutions and motions, to stop this kind of thing

from entering the House. Let me say the only thing that we have to go by is what

Beauchesne says about a motion. Beauchesne says this in 565,

"A motion should be neither argumentative, nor in the style of a speech,

nor contain unnecessary provisions or objectionable words. It is usually

expressed in the affirmative, even when its purpose and effect are

negative." Now, that is all we have, Mr. Speaker, so this motion certainly

does not meet that requirement.

I just want to say, in other jurisdictions they generally make a rule, a

regulation, also with respect to the

WHEREAS, that: that just clutters up the

resolution with political jargon, with unmitigated twaddle.

Mr. Speaker, that is what is in this particular resolution, a resolution that

is distorted and twisted to try and convince the people of this Province,

somehow, that this government is in power illegally, that somehow there should

be an election because we have had a change of leadership. Again, what nonsense!

What utter nonsense!

They are trying to play upon the ignorance of certain people in the

population that somehow this government is in power illegally. That is what they

are doing, to try and give some validity to their argument that there should be

an election. Why, Mr .Speaker? Why ought there be an election? One reason:

because right now, for the first time in twelve years, they find themselves

leading in the polls. Mr. Speaker, that is why they want an election.

Well, there are several times in a government's tenure when they are down

in the polls; several times. It happens all the time, but maybe the people of

this Province would be treated to, maybe the people of this Province will have a

preview, as to the arrogance, the insolence, that will be demonstrated by this

crowd when they become government; the fact that they are now leading in the

polls and all of sudden they have to have an election.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: They are afraid, absolutely afraid -

AN HON. MEMBER: An election? We cannot even get a by-election!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. LUSH: The hon. gentleman is talking to the right person when he is

talking about this government giving a by-election. I have sat over there for

many months waiting for a by-election from this crowd. They have not changed,

Mr. Speaker. They are the same Tory crowd that -

AN HON. MEMBER: You weren't here then.

MR. LUSH: I wasn't here?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) years ago.

MR. LUSH: Oh, I see. So, what has changed now?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. LUSH: You cannot have it both ways. I have carried the scars of the

Churchill Falls development, Mr. Speaker, for forty years, and all of a sudden

this crowd think now they cannot be associated with a crowd in government that

just left a dozen years ago, and some of them still around. No, Mr. Speaker,

there is one reason they want an election now, would love to have an election

now, because they are leading in the polls. As I have said, the arrogance that

they have demonstrated, are demonstrating in the House right now, as shown by

this particular private members' resolution.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition would like to give credence, is trying

to give credence to this position -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is trying to give

credence to his stand that somehow this government is in power illegally, by

suggesting - why does he have in the

WHEREAS, for example, "AND

WHEREAS on

every other occasion in this Province where there has been a change in

leadership of the governing Party, a general election has followed within 100

days;".

Because it happened -

MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, just for the record.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, on a point of order.

MR. E. BYRNE: I know that my learned colleague certainly would not want

to, in an unparliamentary way, impugn motives on me, so I just want to be clear

with him so he is clear with me. I have never said that this government is in

power illegally.

As a matter of fact, in the Speech from the Throne - I have a copy for him

here if he would like to have it - I said this government has every legal right

to go ahead and behave as government, particularly, I said - and every legal

right to enter into agreements and arrangements on behalf of the people of the

Province, because they are the Crown. My point was: based upon the policy

reversals that have occurred - and I will sit down now in a second, because I do

not want to interrupt him - I felt, personally, that they did not have the

political or moral right to do that. That is all I said.

I want to be clear. I have never left the impression, nor have I tried to

leave the impression, nor have I ever said, that this government is in power

illegally - never!

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: I thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition for his explanation.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) no point of order (inaudible) speak.

MR. LUSH: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. I was not speaking to the point of

order.

MR. SPEAKER: I recognize the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: I was not speaking to the point of order. I want to carry on.

Has the Speaker made his ruling on the point of order?

MR. SPEAKER: Yes.

MR. LUSH: I am sorry.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his explanation, but he

is attempting to build a case based on whatever circumstances and, as he said

yesterday, there can be reading between the lines. One does not have to say.

There can be reading between the lines. He is trying to build a case that this

government should call an election. He is using the point, and he was using the

circumstances that, "WHEREAS on every other occasion in this Province where

there has been a change in leadership..." the governing party has called a

general election within 100 days.

So? That does not make it legal. It does not even give it precedence, because

you do not call elections on precedence. An election is called on the rules and

on the circumstances at the time. These circumstances were altogether different

at that particular time. Mr. Speaker, that does not hold water.

How about in other provinces? In Saskatchewan, the current Premier, Mr.

Calvert, officially became Premier on March 19, 2001, when he was elected in a

by-election. He took over from Premier Romanow, when he resigned in February,

2001. He is still carrying on now and has until 2004. I checked out, there is no

such resolution in that House because they are constitutionally, legally and

morally in power, as is this government.

Mr. Speaker, in Quebec, I do not hear anybody shouting out for the

resignation of Premier Landry. I don't hear anybody there, because they are

politically responsible, because they are politically mature. That is why.

In British Columbia, Dosanjh carried out right to the last - almost to the

last month -

AN HON. MEMBER: Today, right to today.

MR. LUSH: Yes, carried out to the last month.

Let me say to the hon. members: if the people of this Province want to get

rid of this government, they will do it.

The other scenario that the Leader of the Opposition uses is the mandate, a

couple of items on which this government was elected. Mr. Speaker, a government

doesn't get elected to fulfil, a government doesn't get elected to carry out

one or two major issues. A government gets elected to govern the Province. A

government gets elected to carry out the fiscal policy, the social policy, the

entire policy for that Province. That is what a government gets elected for, not

to carry out one issue, not to do one thing, although it might be highlighted.

Mr. Speaker, let me tell you what this crowd is afraid of. This crowd is

afraid that this government is going to do something.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: They are afraid that we are going to do something. Mr. Speaker,

let the message go forward.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LUSH: Let the message go forward. We are going to carry on and

improve upon the tremendous record and tremendous performance of this Liberal

government. That is what we are going to do. We are not afraid to look at the

big issues. We are not afraid to look at bulk water. We are not afraid to look

at that. I have heard hon. members opposite so many times reject and deny the

possibility of having studies, to have hearings. They are afraid of knowledge.

We are not afraid of opening up discussion. We are not afraid of fully

discussing things. We are not afraid to look at Gisborne Lake. We are not afraid

to look at the export of bulk water. We are not saying we are doing it, but we

are not afraid to look at it, to weigh the pros and cons. Unfortunately, the

hon. gentlemen opposite have become so arrogant, they think they are the fount

of all wisdom. They think there is nothing else in this world to be learned.

They think they know everything there is to know about everything, therefore you

need no studies, therefore you do not need to look at them. Now, what arrogance

is that? Have we ever witnessed such arrogance and such insolence? What has

happened to them all of a sudden? You cannot look at things.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are looking at Voisey's Bay. I believe the people of

this Province want us to develop Voisey's Bay, and we are going to look at it.

When we have a deal that we believe is going to be beneficial to the people of

this Province, we are going to carry it through. We are going to act upon it. I

can tell hon. members opposite that we are not going to be intimidated by them.

There is nothing that has happened to them in the past year, in the past two

years, that makes us very worried. There is nothing that has happened that is

going to cause us to draw back and go into shells; to coil up and go away and

die.

I can tell you this government is going to be a fighting government. People

on this side, Mr. Speaker, are fighters and we want to develop - let me say

this, I hear hon. gentlemen so often talking about caring. Do they believe that

they have an monopoly on caring? Do they believe that they are the only people

on that side of the House who want to develop Newfoundland to its maximum, to

develop this Province for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians? Do they believe

somehow that there is something in the air that is only drawn in by Tories? Mr.

Speaker, the people on this side of the House are as concerned about

Newfoundland and Labrador as they are. We are not going to recoil in our effort.

We are going to carry on relentlessly. We are going to carry on with diligence

and with enthusiasm to develop this Province, to create employment for the

people of this Province. That is our aim.

No, Mr. Speaker, we are not going to be calling an election. We are not going

to be asking the Premier to go down to the Lieutenant-Governor. There is a

procedure for that, and it is not this process. I want hon. members opposite to

know that we stand behind this Premier. We support him, cheek-to-cheek,

jowl-to-jowl, and I can tell you that there is unity on this side of the House

and we are - as was indicated before - not going to be intimidated. We are not

going to be detracted by the -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. LUSH: In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, if I may?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. LUSH: We are not going to be detracted by what the hon. gentlemen

opposite are trying to do. We plan to carry on, forge ahead with determination,

dedication, commitment, and enthusiastic.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Opposition often says that no current members sitting on that side were

part of a previous government. Of course that is not true, but in the heat of

the debate, just a few minutes ago, I may have said something that I regret

about one of the members who is absent from the House today. I would like to

withdraw that remark and apologize.

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker did not hear the member's remarks but if he

wishes to make an apology, that is his wish.

The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly want to rise today to make a few comments on this particular

motion. I understand what the Fisheries Minister has just been saying in his

apology and I understand and accept that.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to make a few comments, first of all, to the Member

for Terra Nova on his comments before I go into my -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: - few comments that I would like to say today. I cannot help

when listening to the Member for Terra Nova, he gets so emotional as he talks

about the mandate and the support of his leader, and the support of the Premier,

and the support of the party. He talks about utter twaddle, I think is what he

referred to.

MR. J. BYRNE: Utter twaddle.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, to listen to the Member for Terra Nova stand in

this House - as I have seen him here many times before with his previous leader,

the former Premier who is now in Ottawa - stand and applaud him on so many

different issues and standing ovations in the House of Assembly, and lining up

to shake hands because of policy decisions that he made. It is hard to believe

it is the same person standing today because the truth is, what we brought up

today, as my colleague has said, it is not a matter of legal process - whether

they have a legal process that will keep this government in power - we are

talking about the moral debate. That is what we referred to in this particular

motion.

The truth is, if you go out and listen to your constituents - and I know all

members do in this House. I respect that. They talk to them on a daily basis,

either by phone or out when they travel their districts, Mr. Speaker. They are

hearing the same things that we hear throughout our districts and throughout

other districts as we visit each other's districts throughout the Province.

The same issues arise, and I would bet there are a lot of people in this

Province who would like to be here today to stand and debate this particular

motion because they are asking the same questions.

What is really significant is that in my particular district - and I can

refer to my own district. I know it well, Mr. Speaker. It is not just the

general public who are asking the questions, but it is the supporters of the

Liberal Party of Newfoundland and Labrador. Staunch, hard-core supporters, or I

should say former supporters of the Liberal Party in this Province are asking

the same questions that we are asking here today. When they seen the former

Premier stand up two years prior to his mandate being up, or more than two

years, to ask the people to go to the polls on a solid platform that he laid

before the people of this Province - not as the Member for Terra Nova was

talking about, a few items. It was not a few items. It was solid policy issues.

A direction that this government would take its mandate into.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I believe that a lot of people who are doing that talking

would say that if this Administration, under this new Premier, was still holding

those policies through and still following through, that they would have a good

argument for holding onto the rest of their mandate, and that a lot of Liberal

supporters in this Province would not be saying that an election should be

called as soon as possible. These are Liberal supporters, Mr. Speaker, people

that I have spoken to who attended the Liberal Convention. I say to the Minister

of Transportation, I know them very well. They stood and said that they, as

Liberal supporters at the latest leadership convention of this party, are

surprised and shocked by the turn of events and the policy changes of this new

leader; and not just small items, as referred to by the Member for Terra Nova.

Voisey's Bay is not a small item. Voisey's Bay was probably the biggest

issue of the last election. As we just read in a statement here, Mr. Speaker, in

Gander - and I still remember the big statement from the Premier when he said:

Not one spoonful - to a standing ovation in Gander; to an applause in Gander

that rang across the Province because he repeated it day after day when he stood

with his dramatic style, as he usually does, and said: Not one ounce of ore is

to leave the Province - and the polls continued to climb as we headed into

election day. I remember it very well. I remember it very well, Mr. Speaker, and

if members opposite are still believing that the Liberal supporters of their

party, the people who gave them the mandate, the 45 per cent or 46 per cent of

the people of this Province who voted to give them the mandate, still believe

that that particular part of the mandate on Voisey's Bay has not changed, then

they are whistling Dixie. Because they know that there are people in their party

today who are very upset with the direction in which this particular leader and

this government are now heading, which is so opposite, Mr. Speaker; and intend

to go further into the actual leadership. During the leadership, the two

contestants, the former Minister of Fisheries - not only did the former Minister

of Fisheries say that he supported the former Premier on his stand of not

wanting one spoonful, nothing, to leave this Province; he stood on several

occasions, including the debate, if I remember correctly.

In one of the debates, Mr. Speaker, I am pretty sure - I cannot get verbatim

- but I am sure the minister himself, the former Minister of Fisheries, would

stand there today and say it: Not only did I support former Premier Tobin on the

stand on Voisey's Bay, not that I only support him, but I was even stronger on

that position on Voisey's Bay.

So, it is not just a small item, as the Member for Terra Nova referred to

earlier, Mr. Speaker. Then we look at the actual convention itself. Yes, some

1,300 people at that convention voted, but I would like for somebody on that

side of the House, when they stand, to break down the 1,300 delegates at that

convention. How many of the elected delegates voted for the current leader, and

how many of the elected delegates voted for other contestants? I wonder how

many, Mr. Speaker? How many of the higher echelon, how many ex officios, really

put this Premier now in his seat? I wonder what the real statistics are inside,

when we talk about the people within the Liberal Party who gave this Premier the

new mandate, the mandate that he sits in this chair with, Mr. Speaker. I am sure

that the other contestants in this race would argue that they indeed had the

most support of the grassroots of this Province. Probably if you want to get

closer to a legitimate, moral mandate, it was the Member for Humber West who

showed us and showed the public of this Province, and supported the Member from

Port de Grave.

The question is not only from the general public, wondering if this

government has a mandate to go forward, Mr. Speaker, but the people within the

Liberal Party themselves. The people within the Liberal Party out there today,

if they are talking to their constituents, and we talk to all sides, good

Liberal supporters within my district - there are not a lot of them, but there

are a few - if you talk to them, they will tell you that they do not like the

direction in which this party is going today. They do not agree with it. They

won on a mandate that former Premier Tobin brought into this Province and won a

majority government on, a solid majority; and they always remember not just the

internal squabbles that happen within this party on this leadership; they always

remember the Premier who called the election, early as it was.

I have heard the Member for Terra Nova refer to the years that he has been in

the Legislature. I think it is twenty-six or twenty-seven - I am not sure; maybe

he will correct me in a second - and how many elections he went through. I just

spoke to a couple of my colleagues here. In less than six years, I was through

three general elections.

AN HON. MEMBER: What do you want, to have another one now, do you?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Three general elections. The point is, Mr. Speaker, there

was no problem then. There was no problem. That is the point, I say to the

Minister of Fisheries; that is the problem.. Mr. Speaker, there was no problem

to run three early elections when Mr. Tobin decided the polls were great. It was

no problem to call it then. It was no problem to wait until the middle of

February month, the dead of winter, three years before his mandate. It was no

problem to call it then. Why did he call it, Mr. Speaker? Because he had control

of the polls and he could say when the people of this Province were going to go

to the polls.

What is different now, Mr. Speaker, is that the current leader knows that has

changed dramatically. He knows that even his own supporters do not support that.

He knows that the people in this Province know that this mandate of this Premier

is on a different track. He is not paying attention. He is not listening to the

core Liberal people, Mr. Speaker. I can tell you that there are people within

his own party who are very disappointed, disgusted - there are a lot of words

you use - but they are not pleased. Let's be polite here today and say they

are not pleased with the direction of this leader who has been basically elected

on the higher echelon of the party, not even the grassroots. We see that

significantly in polls.

When the Member for Port de Grave, who had the majority - and, Mr. Speaker, I

should say a high majority - of the grassroots of this Province.

MR. JOYCE: Tell us, where does your party stand on Voisey's Bay?

MR. SHELLEY: Our stand has always been clear on Voisey's Bay, I say to

the Member for Bay of Islands. It is continually said publicly, wherever we go

in this Province. Always remember, I say to the Member for Bay of Islands, when

the former Premier stood here - the man who sits in Ottawa now - the contestant

for the leadership, the Member for Port de Grave, said: Not only do I agree with

the former Premier and his stand about one spoonful; I was actually stronger. I

was stronger on the stand of Voisey's Bay.

The next issue, that my colleague already raised today, bulk water. It is so

funny, Mr. Speaker, because I do recall the day that - again, the former leader

stood in this House. It was all about people, talking about cooperation, and

everybody was nice and cuddly and really generous to everybody because we were

on the same wave length when it came to the export of bulk water. We were all

solid on the same mandate, that no bulk water was to leave this Province. We

stood and shook hands. We were unanimous in the House. It was all huggy-

kissy', everything was wonderful, especially on the other side.

If I remember right that day, and some of my colleagues can remind me, I

remember the standing ovation and one by one going down to shake the Premier's

hand. What a great show of solidarity. It was all here. And, what happened just

slightly after that? All of a sudden the new Premier, the new leader, decides

that he who sat in Cabinet, he who decided with the leader, all of the -

AN HON. MEMBER: Former (inaudible)

MR. SHELLEY: The former, former Premier. I know we have to go back a long

way sometimes, Mr. Speaker.

- all of the people in this House. Then this new leader decides that we are

going to change the policy on bulk water and admits: maybe we as a Cabinet,

maybe we as a government, maybe we did not take long enough to investigate

further. How long did he want?

If I recall again, the Premier of the day, the former, former Premier, asked

us to pass it immediately. He asked us not to debate it, not to talk about it.

We do not need to talk about it. We are all solid on this issue. There is

nothing to debate. He wanted us to pass it immediately; but we, on this side of

the House, said we did want to debate it, at least some time, to some point -

inside, outside whatever you want to debate it, upside down, inside out, all

over, up, down, across. The point was, the former, former Premier said we should

do it right away.

Now, we have our new Premier, the man with the mandate of the day, deciding

that we are going to change all of this now. We weren't competent enough in

our jobs. We did not do a thorough enough job, so we have to backtrack now. Just

a couple of small issues; don't worry about it. I have two years left of my

mandate. We are going to bring in a done deal on Voisey's Bay. It is just a

small item, as the Member for Terra Nova talked about. We will change that.

People should not mind that, that is why we are sitting here. Then we are going

to change the policy on bulk water. People should not mind that.

Mr. Speaker, I tell you, right now, today, that this government is going to

find the same fate as you watch the NDP in British Columbia meet today. They

will meet it today. You will see it tonight; it will be broadcast tonight. They

will meet the same fate if they try to do with the public what the Government of

British Columbia has done. You can't hoodwink the people for that long.

The people in this Province will not stand for it. The people of this

Province, including the Liberal supporters of this Province - and I will

conclude with this - are saying that these are not the people they voted for.

These are not the policy directives. This is not the mandate that we supported

them on. That is why you see the change in polls. That is why it is important to

talk on this today, because a lot of people in this Province today would like to

be standing here in this House of Assembly saying the same things. I am hearing

it in my district, my colleagues are hearing it, and I know, because I have

talked to them on the opposite side, they are hearing the same things in their

district. They are hearing the same things about their leader. It is not all

hunky-dory, it is not all cheek to cheek, like the Member for Terra Nova is

talking about. It is not even close to that. People are upset at the direction

this mandate and this government is taking, and they are going to let them know

in fine style in the short term. It is not going to be two years, Mr. Speaker.

It is not going to be that long, because the people of this Province are not

going to sit back that long. The people of this Province are going to speak out

loud and clear. As time passes, it will be tougher and tougher and we will see

who is cheek to cheek and if they support this leader, stand up and applaud this

leader, in this House of Assembly, shake hands with this leader, saying, now

that we have changed our mandate, now that we have changed our direction of

government, now that we have decided to take this Province in a different

direction, we still have the support of the people. It is clear they do not.

It is time that people are looking past their Liberal stripe of years gone

by, some very staunch supporters of the Liberal Party - and I have spoken to

them - who have decided that they are not happy with this current

Administration, and they are not going to let them finish out another two or

two-and-a-half years on a direction that they are opposed to.

Mr. Speaker, in the next little while, throughout the spring as we finish up

this session, and as the members go out into their district this summer, the

reality will hit home to each and every one. When this House is closed, what I

say is, we are out in the real world, where the constituents give you

one-on-one. That is where we get most of our information. It is where we learn

the issues up front.

I will give you one example. I wish the Member for Bay of Islands was here

today. I will conclude with this. Being in Corner Brook just a short time ago,

and I spent a lot of time in Corner Brook, long before politics. They are my

next door neighbor. I spend a lot of time there. In a recent visit to Corner

Brook, for example, the Humber YMCA fundraiser, people in that district talked

about how the City of Corner Brook, the second city of this Province, is without

Cabinet representation. That was directed by this Premier, this Leader, and it

is a change that they do not appreciate and they will not stand for.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: No leave.

The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island.

MR. WALSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will not take up a lot of time, but I believe I can stand here today with

some authority when I deal with today's private members' resolution. I am

not going to deal with the fact that the private members' resolution is

nothing more than a disguise for a non-confidence vote, of which we already have

one on the floor. I will not deal with the fact that, that is what it is made up

of. I will deal with the fact, though, with some authority I can stand here and

say that I am probably the only person in the House of Assembly who actually

lost a leadership race twice in one day. I guess someone in the far distant

future, in Hansard, will read that and wonder what that meant. I think my

colleagues on both sides of the House will understand.

I will say to you, though, that I have had the opportunity of serving under

four Premiers, and rumor has it -

AN HON. MEMBER: You are on your last one now.

MR. WALSH: Yes, and the one that I have now will probably be here for

another ten years. I have had difficulty, as most members would know, with two

of them. I have to say that, with the last two I have had less difficulties than

I have had with the previous two.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. WALSH: No, I am not looking for anything.

Mr. Speaker, let's deal with the facts that we have in front of us. Let's

deal with the political reality. Let's deal with, in actual fact, how our

system of governments are established. Each and every one of us on this side of

the House of Assembly make up the government. Each and every member on that side

of the House of Assembly make up the Opposition - each and every one. We here

have had an opportunity to participate in virtually every piece of legislation

that has come before this House of Assembly in this session. Each and every one

of us on this side of the House of Assembly have been consulted on every piece

of legislation that has come forward in this session of this House of Assembly.

All of us have had our input, and all of us stand firmly behind the leader of

the day. All of us.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, I came to this House of Assembly in 1999, and I

was one of a group of people who, because I was elected, allowed Clyde Wells to

become Premier. He had to run in a by-election to do it, but that is what caused

him to become Premier. Did it once, did it twice, been here four times in four

elections, and it is each and every member on this side who helps form the

government on election night.

My colleagues, who I have the greatest respect for, who sit to the right of

the Speaker, they are not in government because they did not have the magic

number. That is why their leader is not Premier. That is why they are not

sitting here. So, each and every one of us collectively make up this government.

AN HON. MEMBER: Did you win because of the former leader?

MR. WALSH: No, I did not.

AN HON. MEMBER: None of you did?

MR. WALSH: You asked me my question. I said, I won on my own merit. I won

on my own. In fairness, there are colleagues and friends of mine who are on the

other side, who actually were concerned for me in the last election, especially,

the morning when the ramp fell off the ferry. They really felt: Jim, I don't

think you are coming back. My constituents felt differently.

We can question, at any time, a direction of a government. We can question,

at any time, the direction that a leader may be taking his government. That is

what I expect the Opposition to do. That is what I expect the members on this

side to do in our caucus. I hear so often: I do not hear the member for

so-and-so speaking out publicly, who happens to be on the government side. If

each and every one of us in this House of Assembly were to say publicly what we

say in our caucus meetings most of our constituents would expect us to leave and

go home, because we do not agree with the directions that our leaders take on

all issues. However, we do not disagree enough to say: Thank you and goodbye. I

can say, Mr. Speaker, that we have had heated discussions in our caucus. We

have, on every issue, found consensus. We have, on every issue, found reason to

say: Yes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WALSH: We have on every issue been able to say: We will agree. We

will move forward.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of members over here who want to speak and I

am going to give them their chance - the same is there. All I am looking at

today is a thinly devised, contrived, contrapped' reason for a

non-confidence vote.

Mr. Speaker, let me say to each and every member of this House of Assembly:

We can go until 5:00 p.m., if that is what you want. We can make our political

points from now until 5:00 p.m. if that is what you want; but I say now, Mr.

Speaker, when the vote comes, this side of the House of Assembly, these members

here, my colleagues, we will ask for Division. We will ask for Division today. I

say to you, Mr. Speaker, person for person standing in this side of the

Legislature will stand to vote against this private members' legislation

today. We will vote it down. We will say: No; and we will say yes, to the

Premier of the day. We have a leader. We have a Premier.

Now, Mr. Speaker, real simple, we collectively have made the decision that we

are going forward with a number of issues that are mentioned in the private

member's resolution. We are not afraid to review. We are not afraid to seek

out a direction that may actually help rural Newfoundland, of which my own

district is considered to be one of; may actually create employment; may

actually see the revenues of the Province increase; may actually see more people

working; may actually see more of our sons and daughters staying home; may

actually see, in my case, my son come home from Alberta.

Mr. Speaker, I will finish by saying: the private members' resolution today

is wasting the time of this House of Assembly. There are other issues that I

believe are more important that could have come forward today; but, no, they

have not. Instead, a thinly disguised, contrived, contracted, non-confidence

motion.

Mr. Speaker, at 5:00 p.m., if we are here until that time, I will be the one

who calls for Division and I will be the one who will stand and say: We have

confidence in our leader. We have confidence in our Premier. We have confidence

in the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and we have confidence in ourselves

to do what is best for our constituents, individually, and for the Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER (M. Hodder): The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I would like to rise to say a few words today and this motion as well. I

would like to begin by talking about the necessity of calling an election and

whether it is warranted or not. I would like to remind members of the House,

Madam Speaker, that if I recall correctly two years -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. COLLINS: I say to the hon. minister: According to the late Liberal

poll, I do not have as much to worry about as the minister does. I say, Madam

Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

MR. COLLINS: Oh, yes. I say to the hon. members, Madam Speaker, it may

very well be my first time in this Legislature, but I ran twice in Labrador in

the federal elections and both times won Labrador West. So, I remind the members

of that, and I am confident that the next time, Madam Speaker, if I do not win

Labrador West, it will not have anything to do with that side of the House. The

members in Labrador West will decide that question.

As I recall, Madam Speaker, the last election was called after a government

was in power for two years and eleven months and it was called on the very issue

of what is being debated here today. Let's not forget, the last time I heard

from the former Member for Labrador West, to respond to the member, was

yesterday on the radio and it is apparent that he is not aware that his party

has changed lives. He is still towing the old line about no development in the

Province, and no ore exported.

MR. MATTHEWS: No, he is up to date. I was talking to him last night.

MR. COLLINS: Well, he was not up to date yesterday on the radio.

MR. MATTHEWS: But he is okay now. Everything is fine.

MR. COLLINS: Yes, he must be if you talked to him.

As I was saying, Madam Speaker, two years and eleven months after the

election the Premier of the day decided to call a general election, not against

any other political party in the Province but against Inco. For all intents and

purposes, that is who the election was called against in 1999. What is happening

now is very worrisome. The government has flip-flopped. They are sliding from

the position that they took. The position, I would suggest, that many members on

that side of the House hold their positions to today; by the very slim

majorities that they did get it by. So, it is worrisome now as we watch and see

the government backtrack from there. I am not sure what is happening. I tend to

believe sometimes, that they are so tired and disinterested in what is happening

in the Province that they would just as soon get out. If that is their attitude,

Madam Speaker, I would suggest that they call an election sooner rather than

later, and get over it and let the Province elect a new government with a new

mandate that will carry on what is needed to be carried on in this Province.

The speculation that is created now, Madam Speaker, is not healthy for people

here. We have this bulk mentality, as was mentioned in this House before,

whether it applies to Voisey's Bay; whether it applies to water exports;

whether it applies to oil shipments; offshore gas; hydro; iron ore; you name it.

For years and years and years there has been bulk exports from this Province,

and as the member who spoke previously, the Member for Conception Bay East &

Bell Island stated, he wants his kids to be able to come home and work in this

Province. I can assure him that the way to do that is not the way that we have

been approaching development in this Province for the last number of years.

Now, Madam Speaker, obviously the government of today is not following the

mandate that they have been given by the people of this Province, not on a

number of issues. Voisey's Bay is but one. If we look around at the mandate to

create jobs - if we look around at all of the things that were promised during

the last election that this government said they were going to do and failed to

deliver on. I think that while they may have the legal right to continue as the

government - there is no question about that - their moral obligation to the

people who entrusted them with their votes in February of 1999 deserve more than

for a government to hang on because of a legality. There is a moral obligation

on the part of this government to do what is right for the Province and for the

people who elected them to the positions that they are in today.

Madam Speaker, also if we look at some of the resolutions, the WHEREASes and

the second last one in particular, it touches on what I mentioned a bit earlier

about the oil and gas, and Hibernia. We hear people talk about the oil and gas

industry. We do not have an oil and gas industry in this Province, as such. We

have oil and gas but the industry

part is missing. We have an oil refinery in

Come By Chance that is not allowed to sell one litre of oil in the rest of this

country while, in the meantime, we have free trade with the United States and

Mexico. So, it is hardly fitting and it certainly does not do anything -

MR. BARRETT: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation, on a point of order.

MR. BARRETT: Madam Speaker, I would not want the hon. member to give the

wrong information. That was changed recently. The Come By Chance Refinery now,

since Mr. Tobin became the Minister of Industry, has been changed, and the Come

by Chance Refinery is now permitted to sell its products in Canada.

MADAM SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: I thank the member for the information he provided. I was

not aware of that. It is funny there wasn't a half a million dollar press

conference called to announce it though, in the meantime.

Madam Speaker, it is very important to the young people of this Province that

our natural resources are developed with their best interests in mind. Because,

for years now we have seen our young people finish school, leave the Province in

droves, many never to return. That is a sad situation that is happening in rural

Newfoundland, and in Labrador in particular.

In some places in the world that may be the only option that is available to

people, but in this Province, with the number of resources that we have - which

outnumber what most countries have, I might add - there is absolutely no need

for that to happen at all. If things were done with the best interest of the

people, rather than the best interest of a select few, then the situation would

be such that we would probably need to import workers into this Province rather

than to have to export our young.

Madam Speaker, there is a lot to be done on the whole question of natural

resource development. The Voisey's Bay one is certainly the issue of the day.

I can certainly say, and echo the comments that were made earlier, that many

people, many Liberals in this Province, are very alarmed and concerned about the

direction that this government is taking on one of our most important natural

resources

The people of this Province elected a Liberal government just over two years

ago, mainly on the premise that: no smelter, no mine. While, in my region of the

Province, Madam Speaker, there was a great lobbying effort on the part of many

communities to have the smelter established in Labrador for all kinds of

practical reasons, people said it had to be in the Province, because the monies

that would come from the taxes that were paid in the secondary industries that

would spring up as a result of a smelter, are monies and a tax base that are

badly needed to provide the services that we all depend on regardless of where

we live in this Province.

I think the people are very disappointed, at this point in time, and I think

that is indicated on the street, as we talk to people in our day-to-day lives

outside of this Legislature. People are very concerned about the future of

Voisey's Bay, about the future of the smelter, and very concerned that if we

start to ship ore, in its raw state, out of the Province, with the promise of

getting it back later, then that is just not going to happen, Madam Speaker. You

know that, we know that, the government knows that and the people of the

Province know it. We have been down that road too many times in the past and we

are not going to put ourselves in the position where we will repeat it.

I think it is important that the government either stick to the mandate on

which they were elected to govern this Province, and if they decide to deviate

from that dramatically - which in this case I think it is dramatically - then

they should have to go to the public to renew that mandate to continue

governing.

Thank you.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Madam Speaker, it indeed gives me great pleasure today to

rise in this debate on a motion that people before me, or speakers before me,

had indicated should never have been on the Order Paper. I won't get into that

reasoning at all.

I want to point out some of the inaccuracies and some of the problems with

this particular motion. The first

WHEREAS, "WHEREAS the current Premier

ascended to that post by being elected leader of his Party on February 3, 2001

by 638 delegates to his Party's leadership convention." I am sure that

hon. members opposite are well aware that in jurisdictions like Canada, where we

have party politics, we have a combination of the Great Britain system as well

as the American system. In Great Britain, for example, members are elected to

the Westminster, the Parliament in England, and the members of the caucus elect

their leaders. This is not what happens in this great country called Canada. In

this great country of Canada we have more of a grassroots organization. We have

a Liberal Party, a Conservative Party, or an NDP Party, and the people and the

process that most parties have is that they elect delegates to a convention. In

the District of Bellevue for example there were twenty-four delegates from the

District of Bellevue elected to the convention. These people were elected by

people in the District of Bellevue, and they were elected to go to the

convention to vote for a Leader of the Liberal Party of Newfoundland and

Labrador. To say that the Premier was only elected by 638 delegates - every one

of those delegates represented the views of people in their districts. Thousands

and thousands of people voted in that process. It is one of the biggest

democratic experiences that Newfoundland has ever seen in terms of election of a

leader.

We recently say the big concert that took place down at the Stadium, the

stadium that is being torn down now. One of the last functions at the Memorial

Stadium was the coronation of the Leader of the Conservative Party, and not one

person voted for him, not one person marked an X for the Leader of the PC Party;

not one person. So, he is going to come into this House, if he gets elected by

the people of this Province, if, by some luck, he wins a by-election, he is

going to come in here and be the Leader of the Official Opposition of this

Province, and he will not be elected by anybody except the people in that

district. That is the way our democratic system works.

In the last election, the former, former Premier was elected in The Straits

& White Bay North as all the other members on this side of the House were

elected in their districts. All the other members were elected -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: Who?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: No, no.

Everybody who sits in this House is elected in the district, and is elected

by the people in their districts. The Premier of the Province is no different.

The Premier of the Province is elected. The person who sits as a leader of a

political party in Newfoundland and Labrador is elected in convention by that

party. The Leader of the NDP Party in this House was elected in a convention of

the NDP. The Leader of the Conservative Party in this Province was elected - he

was not elected because nobody voted for him, but nobody ran against him because

there was nobody else qualified, I guess, for the job in that party.

We had the distinction over here that we had three people who were running

for Leader of the Liberal Party. Three very qualified, distinguished members of

this party offered themselves to be the leader of this party. Over there, in the

Conservative Party, they did not have anybody else qualified. They did not have

anybody else qualified to run for the party or who wanted to run for the party.

They had one candidate and he was not elected. They had a false oath, a

make-believe oath that he- I watched it on television and I had to laugh. I

said: Are we swearing in the President of the United States? It looked like we

were swearing in the President of the United States. The Leader of Her Majesty's

Loyal Opposition administered the oath to the Leader of the Party. I said: What

would he go through here now? What is this, the President of the United States

being sworn in or something? It was so formal. I mean, the music was playing and

the lights were flashing. This guy came forward and the Leader of Her Majesty's

Loyal Opposition had to swear in the Leader of the Party, who was not elected,

who was appointed by the party, and attended the biggest concert that ever took

place at the stadium. All the top bands were playing, and they tried to make a

convention of it.

AN HON. MEMBER: You said you never watched it.

MR. BARRETT: I watched it, because I was very interested in what the

so-called Leader of the PC Party had to say, because he said nothing. He said

nothing whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I sat there and watched it, and I

looked at my clock and said: I have been watching this now for six minutes. If I

didn't want to know what this guy had to say, I would have turned it off. I

would have switch to WWF. As a matter of fact, I think the weather channel would

have been much more interesting than the speech of the Leader of the PC Party.

The speech that he gave at that convention was as boring as the weather channel,

and I have to say that the weather channel is not very interesting. I am not

very interested in watching the TV. I would like to have an hour, like the

Leader of the Official Opposition.

I want to get on, "AND

WHEREAS on the bulk water export issue in

particular...". It amazes me that the hon. Member for St. John's South

can be so reckless and careless with the truth, and get away with it. He is on

the open line programs and one of his big issues about - You asked me today: Has

my stand changed on Gisborne Lake? No, my stand on Gisborne Lake has not

changed.

I want to speak this afternoon about Gisborne Lake, and the proposal that was

in for Gisborne Lake. We were talking about an entrepreneur in this Province, a

very successful businessper