J4 C-. \' Province of Newfoundland THIRTY-NINTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Volume XXXIX Third Session Number 45 VERBATIM REPORT (Ha nsa rd) Wednesday, 14 November 1984 Speaker: Honourable James Russell

The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker (Russell): Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of questions for the Minister of Health (Dr. Twomey). In view of the fact that on April 7, 1981 the Premier of this Province stated at the Come By Chance hospital that as long as he was Premier the Come By Chance hospital would never close, and in view of the fact that on February 27, of this year, 1984, the former Minister of Health (Mr.

House), again at the Come By Chance hospital, announced that the hospital would close once the hospital at Clarenville came onstream, and in view of the fact that Dr. Fowlow, Chief Medical Officer at that hospital, and his colleagues submitted several pieces of information in the form of a brief on April 7, 1981, and then an up-dated brief on October 10 of this year confirming that things are still busy at the Come By Chance facility and continue to be as they were, in view of all these facts and in view of the fact that Dr.

Fowlow says that the hospital at Come By Chance should remain open even with a new hospital at Clarenville, let me ask would the Minister of Health confirm that it is still the intention of his department to close the Come By Chance hospital when Clarenville comes onstream. Is that still the position? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Health DR. TWOMEY: Mr, Speaker, yes, it had been the position of the Department of Health to close Come By Chance hospital to in-patients as soon as the new hospital in Clarenville is able and capable of receiving all the acute care patients.

However, the clinic in Come By Chance hospital will remain open for primary care. Now, you made the comment that there is a great need. I cannot define that great need to the satisfaction of all people in all places, it is an opinion of one man, but there is precedent for it all over this Province, even in my own district of Exploits, where the hospital I previously worked in is being phased out and will eventually be closed and a clinic, hopefully, will be built.

I am aware that patients have to commute distances, but that is not unique, not alone in this Province but elsewhere, all across this land and in other countries of the world. I am also aware, and I am sure that you arc, that we might not be able to keep all these institutions open because of financial constraints. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I will not bother to comment on some of the observations of the Minister of Health. He talks about Botwood and he compares it with Come By Chance. There is no comparison.

We are talking about a facility in Grand Falls that does not compare at all with the facility that they will be opening in Clarenville. L475 November 14, 1984 R4754

There are no comparisons. But there will be another time, another place to debate these things. Let me ask the Minister of Health a supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, Dr. Fowlow, the Senior Medical Officer at Come By Chance hospital tendered his resignation, he resigned from the Come By Chance hospital. 1Jould the minister inform the House whether or not there is a connection between Dr. Fowlow's resignation of yesterday's date and the announced plan of government to shut down the hospital at Come By Chance? Is there a connection? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Health. DR.

TWOMEY: To answer that question specifically is extremely difficult because I cannot tell you what was going on in the mind of Dr. Fowlow on that particular occasion. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, yesterday afternoon, at approximately four o'clock behind the curtain, the good and the new Minister of Health (Dr. Twoiney) informed me that Dr. Fowlow had resigned, and he also informed me that it was because he disagreed with government policy. Now he says he cannot read the mind of the doctor. Let me ask the Minister of Health, Mr.

Speaker, is it not a fact that Dr. Fowlow was given no choice but to resign from that hospital or apologize to government for recent statements that he had made in his up-dated brief to the town council in Arnold's Cove, which the doctor had the courtesy to send copies of to officials in the minister's department? Would the minister tell the House whether the doctor had no choice but to resign or apologize? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. DR. TWONEY: As to what you said, I did inform you behind the curtain.

It was a courtesy that I offered to you and I will continue to offer to every member in this House no matter where they sit, because I think it is right and proper that on all occasions if things are happening the member of the particular area would wish to be informed. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. T1JOMEY: And no matter what you have said, this courtesy will prevail as far as I am concerned. When I said I could not read the mind of Dr. Fowlow, I was quite frank. Dr.

Fowlow was seen by a senior member of the Department of Health yesterday who had called him in to discuss the letter that he had written on departmental note paper. He signed his position as Senior Medical Officer of Health. And I am sure that you will agree that if you are working for a department of government it is your duty and your responsibility to conform to the rules and regulations of that particular department. As a matter of fact, I believe it was Thoreau who said, 'If you cannot keep step with your companion, perhaps it is because you hear a different drummer.' And I am sure, in Dr.

Fowlow's L4755 November 14, 1984 R4155

case, this is what happened. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for Beilevue on a supplementary. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health (Dr. Twomey) says for a second time that he could not read the mind of Dr. Fowlow. It was not necessary for the minister to read his mind, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Health knows that Dr. Fowlow has been requesting a private meeting with the new Minister of Health since October 4, and to this day he has not been granted that interview, that private meeting with the new Minister of Health.

So he had no need to read his mind, all he had to do was have the courtesy to say, Yes, Dr. Fowlow, I have five minutes to spare on such and such a morning, I will be glad to see you. But let me get back to the statement that the Minister of Health just made. He suggested that Dr. Fowlow was breaking rules and regulations by speaking out. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No, he did not. No, he did not. MR. CALLMI: The minister is quite capab:Le of speaking for himself. Let me ask the Minister of Health (Dr. Twomey) what rules or regulations did Dr. Fowlow break? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Health. DR.

TWOMEY: To the second part of the question my answer is there are rules and regulations that are laid down by every department of government just the same as there are rules and regulations laid down by parties in this House. If you do not agree with the philosophy of that particular department, I think it is your duty to either resign from that department or conform to the rules, regulations and policy of that department. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Health (Dr. Twomey).

Would the Minister of Health then not agree that it is now the policy of this government in their quest for a dictatorship that anybody who speaks out against this government has no choice but to resign their position, even if they are only offering suggestions? And that is what Dr. Fowlow was doing, Mr. Speaker, he was offering suggestions that would look after the care and the health of the people in the general area of Come By Chance. I would ask the minister is that now the policy of this government, to get rid of people who speak out or make suggestions against this government? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. DR. TWOMEY: Mr. Speaker, I do not want any member to put words in my mouth. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. TWOMEY: That is number one. As far as I am concerned, and as far as I believe philosophically, L4756 November 14, 1984 R4756

dictatorship in any form would not be supported by me. However, there is a prinicple that governs all of us in our lives, if we subscribe to one philosophy, to one job, or to any other principle or aim, and you become a part of that society, a part of that government, or a part of a philosophical group, I think it is your responsibility to conform to the rules and regulations that are made by the majority in that particular group. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The boa. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: Well, Mr.

Speaker, obviously what we are seeing is that unless everybody working in the hospital system or in the Civil Service adheres to the party line, they are going to be pressured into resigning. MR. PATTERSON: What happened to you? MR. T1JLK: He resigned for the same reason MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to put a question to the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins).

Following the meeting at Meech Lake, which the Premier indicated marks a new era of co-operation between the provincial government and the Government in Ottawa, I would like to know from the Minister of Finance has this new era of co-operation seen any reduction in the proposed cutbacks to the unemployment insurance programme, to the fisheries programmes, to the housing programmes, to the student aid programmes, and to the many other programme cutbacks which will be hurting the people of this Province? Has there been any reduction in the cutbacks? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR.

COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry) asked me a factual question, had the Premier relayed any information to me subsequent to that meeting? I can say that he has not, because I have not seen or conversed with the Premier since. HR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the Minister of Finance. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition on a supplementary. MR. BARRY: I would like to ask the Minister of Finance whether he has reconsidered with respect to preparing and making public a detailed analysis of the impact of Mr.

Wilson's mini- budget upon the economy of this Province. Will the Minister of Finance undertake to prepare quickly, as was regualrly done in the past by himself, the Premier and government, in the case of previous budgets, a prepared statement to make public to the people of Newfoundland indicating the extent of the impact on the people, the programmes and the economy of this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think I indicated L4757 November 14, 1984 R4757

yesterday that we were seeking details of the measures. It was indicated to us previously, when we met with Mr. Wilson as a group of Treasurers and Finance Ministers, that we would receive a provincial breakdown of the effects. Since yesterday we have made enquiries as to whether those details are yet available and we were told that they are still being compiled in a suitable form for transmission to the Provinces, but we have not yet received them.

When we receive these details, clearly we will want to go over them with considerable scrutiny, and arising out of that we will then see whether it is in the best interest of the public to make a comment on them. It may well be that it is so self-evident that the measures are equitable and sensible and desirable that very little comment would be necessary. But I can tell the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry) that we certainly will go into them in detail when we get them and then decide what will be best done about them. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR.

BARRY: I am not sure I heard the minister correctly. Is the minister saying that all of this consultation and co-operation that has gone on has not even given the minister details such as is coming out every day in the news media? Did the minister not have the details on the cutbacks of the GuLf ferry, which was on the noonday news today? Is that what the minister is saying, that he did not have this information, which is a matter of public record, and he has given a blank cheque to the Mulroney government without having this information which they are giving to the news media?

Is this the extent of the consultation? Or is it, Mr. Speaker, that we have here, I ask the minister, a conspiracy of silence between two Tory governments to make sure that the boat is not rocked so that the Government of Canada can bring in the measures that it wishes to bring in without any expression of discontent, or dissent, or opposition from the Government of this Province? Is that the approach? Do we have a conspiracy of silence? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, it is quite easy to answer that question. No, there is no conspiracy of silence.

In regard to what I said before, we have asked for and we have been promised by the federal government that they will be giving us a document, a packet, a list,whatever you want to call it, of all the measures that were included in Mr. Wilson's statement. In terms of their impact on this Province, we are still waiting for that total packet, and as soon as we get it we will be reviewing it and studying it and then, based upon an analysis of that, I will bring whatever seems necessary to the House and perhaps to the public. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, my colleague has the same set of reference material as has the hon. gentleman. They are very scarce in Newfoundland, I understand, but we have managed to come across a set that gives pretty well the budgetary details L4758 November 14, 1984 R4758

of the slashes and the cuts and the layoffs that are going to take place. The hon. gentleman has more detail because he has had consultations with Ottawa. But I want to direct my questions to the Minister of Transportation (Hr. Dawe). Now that hon. gentlemen there opposite, Hr.

Speaker, are so anxious to lick the boot straps of their counterparts in Ottawa, I ask the Minister of Transportation, who has been made caretaker minister for Port aux Basques, could the hon. gentleman give us some of the details of the cutbacks, the slashes, the brutalizing impact that the Tory policy is going to have on CN Marine in Port aux Basques? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I suppose someone has to look after the constituents' interests in Port aux Basques, and it might as well be me since the member is not able to do it. Mr.

Speaker, as part of this ongoing process with regard to CN Marine, for some years the Province has indicated that it had some suggestions as to how the federal government and the Province could work together to achieve some cost savings on CN Marine as it related to its total operation in this Province. Ident.if led in Mr. Wilson's statement were some areas that are open for discussion. It identified a specific amount of cost savings. There have been some suggestions made from various people, including CN Marine, on how these cost savings could occur. My department and myself, Mr.

Speaker, will have an opportunity early next week to discuss the whole issue with Transport Canada and CN Marine. As part of the ongoing consultative process that we are engaged in, the Province will have its opportunity to discuss the issue as it relates to CN Marine and to make some suggestions that I think will be very positive. We will still realize what the federal minister indicated in his statement as it relates to cost savings, but it may not have as drastic an effect, if that is the case, on this particular Province and the area as was suggested by the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr.

Weary) in a press release earlier today. But we will be consulting with the federal government on this issue and we will be continuing that dialogue as was outlined in Mr. Wilson's statement. MR. WEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for LaPoile on a supplementary. HR. WEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. gentleman a couple of questions in connection with the six ferries. My understanding is that six ferries will be taken off the service. Could the hon. gentleman tell us what six ferries they will be?

What kind of ferries will replace the six ferries that will be taken off the run? How many layof Es will result because these ferries will be taken out of service? Also, could the hon. gentleman tell us how many people will be laid off because the M.V.Bonavista will be scrapped? Could he tell us how many employees of CN Marine will be laid off because CN Marine will be forced to charter boats from outside their own company for the Labrador run? And would the hon. L4759 November 14, 1984 R4759

gentleman care to tell us how many freight handlers and others in Port aux Basques will be laid off as a result of the replacement of the car/rail ferry across the Gulf, and the freight being taken from the railway cars in North Sydney, over on the other side of the Gulf, on the mainland, and put in containers and sent over to Newfoundland? As a result of all these changes and cutbacks and slashes that the hon. gentleman agrees with, could he tell us how many employees are going to be laid off in Port aux Basques, and with CN Marine across this Province? MR.

SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Hr. Speaker, I was just wondering whether the hon. gentleman was finished or not, he seemed to be wanting to go on all day. Mr. Speaker, I have not indicated whether I agree or disagree with any of the proposals that have been put forward. I indicated that I will be having discussions with the federal minister and with CN Marine next week, and we will be discussing the issue. If, in fact, any of the speculation that the member for LaPoile is getting on with has any basis, then we will be dealing with it in due course. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for LaPoile MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we have had the Premier stand in this House, and the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) stand in his place in this House, and tell us they are happy and they are pleased about the slashes and the cuts of CN Marine, they approve of the Wilson budget, and now the hon. gentleman has the arrogance to get up and make the statement, 'I may agree or I may not disagree.' The hon. gentleman has no choice but to run along like a little lamb behind the Premier and behind the Minister of Finance. MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. the President of the Council on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I hesitate to interrupt the hon. gentleman, because he is really acting like a leader today, but it is the Question Period, he is on a supplementary question, and the hon. gentleman should get to his question. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order raised by the hon. the President of the Council(Mr. Marshall), the Chair did recognize the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) on a supplementary question and certainly feels that the hon. member was getting a little bit carried away and entering into debate. Perhaps he should ask the supplementary question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. The hon. gentleman has no choice but to run along behind the Premier and the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) like a Little cracky. And whether he gets up in his own arrogance, or in his stupidity - MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please! L4760 November 14, 1984 R4760

The Chair reminded the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Weary) that perhaps he was entering into debate on his supplementary question. The hon. member is sort of continuing to debate and I would again ask him to pose the question. MR. WEARY: Mr. Speaker, I probably did depart a little bit from normal procedure, but this is a very serious matter, Mr. Speaker, involving hundreds of jobs of Newfoundlanders, and the hon. gentleman does not seem to care about it, he shrugs it off. Now, Let me ask the hon. gentleman what impact the 15 per cent increase in revenue that Mr.

Wilson is demanding of CN Marine is going to have on the cost of living in this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, if I might, I do not blame the member for LaPoile for perhaps getting a litle upset, particularly when he addresses questions to me. He indicated the other day that perhaps I spent more time in his district than I do in my own. I can certainly say, Mr. Speaker, that I spend more time in his district than he does and, therefore, I have a pretty good idea of why the hon. gentleman is so upset. I think I answered the question previously, Mr. Speaker.

We will be having meetings, as I indicated, in Ottawa next week, and I will inform the House in due course of the results of those meetings and any other measures that will be taken with regard to CN Marine. MTh NEARY A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. WEARY: Could the hon. gentleman tell the House if he is going to go along with the removal of truck to truck transfer in Port aux Basques, if he is going to allow the freight to be taken out of rail cars in North Sydney, on the other side of the Gulf, thus creating jobs in Nova Scotia?

Is he going to sit idly by and allow that to happen while people in Port aux Basques lose their jobs? Now, the hon. gentleman can get up and play all the partisan politics he likes. He should be in Port aux Basques today. The hon. gentleman would be tarred and feathered and run up the Trans-Canada Highway if he were there today. And I will be sending the Hansard out there with the answer that the hon. gentleman just gave. That will be circulated very widely in Port aux Basques. So the hon. gentleman had better be careful about his answers and not be so arrogant. Now, Mr.

Speaker, is the hon. gentleman going to sit by and allow the jobs to go across the Gulf to North Sydney? He does not need consultation for that. He didnot need it when he talked about the Newfoundland Railway in this House when the Liberals were up there, and what he demanded from Ottawa. Now he is over there MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Russel].): Order, please! The hon. the President of the Council on a point of order. L4761 November 14, 1984 R4761

MR. MARSHALL: As much as the former Leader of the Opposition - Now, I want to Look after both their blood pressures, Mr. Speaker, but the hon. gentleman is making a speech again. It is a suppLementary question. MR. SPEAKER: I would ask the hon. the member for LaPoile if he would pose a specific question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, why was the hon. gentleman so demanding and so critical of the Liberal Government when it was in Ottawa anytime they did the same things that Mr. Wilson is now doing to CN Marine employees in this Province?

And will the hon. gentleman - he does not need a consultation on this, he does not need to go to Ottawa to hold meetings about this - stand in this House and as a matter of principle, if he has the courage to do it, and say that he is going to fight allowing the jobs to go to North Sydney and stop them from putting the freight in containers in North Sydney and sending it over to Newfoundland? Is the hon. gentleman going to condone that, or is he going to fight it tooth and nail, hammer and tongs? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr.

Speaker, it is very difficult to respond in Question Period to the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) because he does not often ask a question, and it is very difficult at the best of times to glean anything from it that has any substance to it. But essentially, Mr. Speaker, my record as it relates to putting forward the Province's position on transportation matters to the federal government will bear the scrutiny of anyone, any hon. member of this House or the public in general. I have consistently put forward the position Of this Province and will continue to do so.

The hon. member is again sulking because he does not have the opportunity or the ability to put forward the views of his constituents and from time to time, when they have required things, improvements to the Grand Bay West Road, or condensers for their ice plant and other Little things that normally the member would do, they have had to come to me for help and I have been only too glad to pass along their concerns to the various government officials. It is unfortunate, Mr. Speaker, that the member for LaPoile would be so upset that he would take that particular tone in Question Period. MR.

SPEAKER(Russell): The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the people out on the Southwest coast will be delighted to get that answer. All it does is show the ignorance and the arrogance of the hon. gentleman, but does nothing to safeguard or secure the jobs of the people involved. Now let me ask the hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, as a result of all the items that I have raised here today in connection with carload freight, the removal of six vessels to be replaced by three, the cutback in coastal boat L4762 November 14, 1984 R4762

service on the Southwest coast, contracting out, chartering vessels outside of CN for the Labrador run and for the Great Northern Peninsula, and the elimination of the twenty year old M.V. Bonavista, let me ask the hon. gentleman again, and he can use a ballpark figure if he wants or go to Ottawa to get the precise number, how many jobs will be lost as a result of these moves that are being made by the Tory administration in Ottawa? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any moves that have been made in that regard. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman must be deaf, dumb, blind or all three if he does not know of any moves made in that direction. Now, let me ask the hon. gentleman about TerraTransport. What is going to happen to Terra- Transport in this Province? In addition to the 15 per cent increase on the Gulf, what will be the impact of the increase in user fees, that will be forced on Terra- Transport by the Tory Government up in Ottawa, on the already high cost of living in this Province? MR. SPEMCRR The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr.

Speaker, it is difficult for me to answer hypothetical questions. As a matter of fact, it is impossible for me to answer hypothetical questions so I will not even attempt to do so. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The time for the Question Period has expired. I would like to welcome two groups of visitors to the galleries today. First of all, the Buchans Action Committee led by the Mayor, Sean Power, with members John Budden, Sandy Ivany, Keith Courage, Mark Hiscock, Barry Pritchard and Bill Holt. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER: And a special welcome to forty students from the Mobile Central High, and forty students from the Samuel Crowther High, Strathmore, Alberta, on a ten day exchange visit; teachers from Mobile Central High, Misses Kavanagh, Dunway and Moore, and teachers from the Samuel Crowther High, Linda Mclnnis, Wayne Ericson and Rob Perry. I welcome you to the galleries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, under the provisions of the Financial Administration Act I wish to table copies of speclalwarrants. MR. CALLAN: I thought you were going to say they were warrants for your arrest. L763 November 14, 1984 R4763

DR. COLLINS: There is a very low class of humour across the way which I will endeavour to ignore, Mr. Speaker. But those warrants are twenty in number and they are up to the end of the first week in November. They total in amount $41,841,500, that is the gross amount in the expenditures. I might add that there are recoveries related to them in the amount of $13,751,000 from various cost shared programmes and similar types of progamrnes. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER (Russell) It being Private Members' Day, we shall proceed with Motion No. 7 on the Order Paper, to be moved by the hon. the member for Bellevue (Mr.

Callan) SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CALLM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the six or eight months since I placed this Motion on the Order Paper, things have changed and changed drastically, Mr. Speaker, in the political life of this Province and this country. However, we will note as I read my resolution that nothing has changed in this connection. The resolution, Mr. Speaker says: "WHEREAS the Newfoundland portion of the Trans Canada Highway is in a deplorable condition," that has not changed in the last six months.

"T J 1HEREAS to ensure safe and rapid transportation across the Island there is a dire necessity for a four lane highway;" That has changed marginally. We have a little bit more of a four lane highway just out past Paddy's Pond in that area. "WHEREAS the Province has drastically cut the maintenance and construction budget for roads under its jurisdiction; "THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House direct the Administration" - the government of this Province - "to immediately commission an engineering study of the Trans-Canada Highway and other secondary roads to determine what is necessary to bring the TCH and inter-connecting roads up to the standard enjoyed by our fellow Canadians in our sister provinces." Now that, Mr. Speaker, is the resolution and as I said very little has changed.

A couple of interesting things have happened and I alluded to the fact, of course, that we now have a Tory government in Ottawa, the same political stripe as the government here, and so we will not get the Fed bashing and the Fed blaming that we have been getting, and the reasons that have been given by this government for not having a substantial roads agreement with Ottawa, we will not have that any more. That is a fair assumption, I think, Mr. Speaker, that we will not have that any more. However, Mr. Speaker, something else happened during the Summer.

On June 28 a study by the Road Information Programme of Canada, Short Trip Canada, confirmed what many Newfound landers have known or suspected for some time, that Newfoundland has the worst road network in the country, and 82.8 per cent, almost 83 per cent of the Province's highway system is in dire need of resurfacing, or reconstruction. That report, Mr. Speaker, of June 28 said almost the identical thing that I had L4764 November 14, 1984 R4764

said in my motion back in March, three or four months earlier. Trip Canada is a public information committee of the Canadian Construction Association. The report on Newfoundland road conditions is part of a series to be completed for all the provinces. The report was made public by Neil Wither, Trip Canada's programme director, and Robert Cameron, Chairman of Trip Canada's Newfoundland

chapter and President of Modern Paving Limited of St. John's. The study concludes that, "Newfoundland motorists are paying an annual bad roads tax of almost $400 each because of the cracked, the rutted and broken condition of the Province's provincial highway system." So says the report. Cameron said that of the 5,376 kilometers of paved roads and highways under the Department of Transportation's jurisdiction, of that 5,376 kilometers of paved roads, 4,451 kilometers, or 82.8 per cent requires resurfacing or reconstruction. I am glad to see the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) taking some notes, because I am sure when he stands in this debate - MR. DAWE: What was the outfit you mentioned? MR. CALLAN: TRIP Canada. If you had been listening when I started out you would have heard all of what I had to say and you would not be asking irrelevant and unnecessary and silly questions. Mr. Speaker, the Newfoundland study is the fifth of the series. In four other provinces the percentage of highway needing resurfacing or reconstruction was much lower,than ours, Mr. Speaker. It had to be much lower since ours was 82.8 per cent, so it had to be much lower than that. That, Mr.

Speaker, is the state of the road system in this Province. Now then, what has the Minister of Transportation and what has the Premier of this Province been doing over the past several months while there was a Liberal Government in Ottawa? What have they been doing, Mr. Speaker? They have been fighting tooth and nail, so they said. Now we have had a Tory Government in Ottawa since September 4, of this year, two and a half months now, and I wonder what the Minister of Transportation and the Premier has been doing. Mr. Speaker, this report by TRIP says that $1 billion is needed for repairs. Mr.

Speaker, we have heard about the offshore agreement that will be signed, we feel, in the very near future. But, of course, Mr. Speaker, we have also heard in recent days about the tremendous cutbacks by the new government in Ottawa. In every field, in every avenue we see cutbacks. I hope the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe), when he speaks in this debate, Mr. Speaker, will answer a couple of important questions.

Will the Minister of Transportation be fighting tooth and nail with the new government in Ottawa for the same sort of roads agreement for this Province that he told us he had been fighting for with the previous administration in Ottawa? That is one question that the Minister of Transportation can answer. The Premier, statements during the Summer, talked about the need for IA 76.5 November 14, 1984 R4765

an agreement and on one occasion used the figure of $450 million. We need at least, he said, $450 million. Here is what the newspaper had to say 'Premier Brian Peckford said at a news conference at the Confederation Building in mid-August that the last Federal/Provincial Primary Highways Agreement was signed in 1982 and that the money in the three year agreement would be spent this year and this means that there will be no agreement next year.' Now that was with the former Liberal Government in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker. I am sure that when the minister speaks in this debate he will tell us all that has changed.

I would expect, Mr. Speaker, as has been suggested by members on this side of the House, including by the former leader of the party, the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary), that the Premier, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) and this government, when they sign a deal with Ottawa on the offshore, will have failed unless as part of that agreement they obtain up-front money of at least $1 billion for roads.

The TRIP report says we need $1 billion just bring the present roads up to standard, and that is not even talking about the secondary roads Like the forty miles of dirt road in my district which have not one inch of pavement, or the 145 miles of dirt road in St. Mary's - The Capes which do not have one inch of pavement or, of course, the approximately 1,800 miles, not kilometers, of unpaved roads throughout this Province. It is fair to assume, Mr. Speaker, that when that offshore agreement is signed, as part and parcel of that package we will see $1 billion for roads.

So when the Premier comes back with that agreement from Ottawa one fine day, all set to call the election the next day, we expect that raod deal to be part of it and, unless it is, the Premier will have failed. He will have failed the people of this Province, Mr. Speaker, unless he has at least $1 billion as part of that agreement designated for roads. Whether or not the Premier has another $i billion - MR. PATTERSON: Where would he get it? MR. CALLAN: We have the collateral, Mr. Speaker, we have the security. MR. PATTERSON: You are in a confused state, boy. Sit down. MR. CALLAN: Mr.

Speaker, the member for Placentia (Mr. Patterson) is funny today. He is funny every day but in a different way than he is funny today. I could tell the member for Placentia something funny, but I might not get a chance to do it today because in the twenty minutes I have to lead of f this debate today, I want to concentrate on the Trans-Canada, the federal highway. In the twenty minutes I have to close the debate, I want to make a district speech. Then I will talk about the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) and how he was supposed to visit my district with me in June, July, August, September or October, and he told us just now that he spent a lot of time in LaPoile district but he did not spend very much time in my district, even though there was an open invitation all Sunmer long and the minister promised that he would do it. I went down to L4766 November 14, 1984 R4766

Hodges Cove with the former Minister of Municipal Affairs,(Hrs. Newhook), and she was there in the public hail when I announced that the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) had told me that he would visit my district in June. DR. COLLINS: I visited your district. MR. CALLAN: Yes, probably looking for a salmon or a lobster or something. You were not out there spending any money on the Come By Chance hospital or the Markiand hospital, which is now on public tender. You were not out in my district, not the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins, spending any money. They said, out there they never see their member. MR.

CALLAN: I do not know where you were. You were probably in Southern Harbour. A lot of Tories, when they go out campaigning in the district of Bellevue on behalf of the Tory candidate, spend a lot of time in Southern Harbour and two days later they discover Southern Harbour is not in Bellevue at all, Southern Harbour is in Placentia. That has happened several times. I can say this, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Finance, nor the member for Burin-P].acentia West (Mr. Tobin) nor any member on that side of the House, Mr.

Speaker, need spend any time in Come By Chance or Arnold's Cove or any of that area after the empty promises that the Premier made out there. He did the same thing regarding the Markland hospital three times, thrice, as the bibLe says. Thrice the Premier promised 'As long as I am Premier the Markland Cottage Hospital will not close.' Today it is closed and the building is up on public tender. If the member for Twillingate (Mrs Reid) would like to look at page 38 in the newspaper that she is reading, on page 38 of today's paper we see a little

article there about the Markland Cottage Hospital being on public tender. The same thing happened with the Come By Chance hospital. The Premier was there and thrice, three times, Mr. Speaker, he said, 'As long as I am Premier the Come By Chance hospital will never close.' And, of course, we saw today in Question Period, as we saw on February 27 of this year, the former Minister of Health (Mr. House) went out and announced the hospital would close. I would say, Mr.

Speaker, that any member on the government benches who wants to go out to Bellevue campaigning in the next election on behalf of the Tory candidate, had better be careful because the people out there are not at all interested in seeing Tories coming around, like the Premier, making empty, political, never-to-be-kept promises. And if they had any doubts, Mr. Speaker, that Tories go around during election time and make empty political promises which they do not intend to keep afterwards. All they had to do was listen to Michael Wilson's statement of last week.

And, of course, a couple of weeks or a month before that, when the Prime Minister was on television,we heard reporters say to him, 'Mr. Mulroney, did you not promise during your campaign that the day after you got sworn in there would be tens of thousands of jobs?' 'No,' he said, 'Go back and check the quote.' And the news reporter went back and there he was in July saying, 'There will be tens, upon tens of thousands of jobs the day L4767 November 14, 1984 R4767

after we are sworn in.' And, of course, all across the country we saw the Prime Minister being caught in the Tory lies and the Tory empty promises. Mr. Speaker, what did we see in Mr. Wilson's statement of last week? Not tens of thousands of new jobs, but tens of thousands of jobs lost. In addition to the unemployment that we have in the country now, especially in this Province, Mr. Speaker, we will see more. DR. COLLINS: The unemployment rate has gone down since Mulroney came in. MR. CALLAN: That is because so many people have left the country.

All along people in my district have been leaving the Province and going to the Mainland. What is happening in Canada now is that they are leaving Canada and going to other countries. That is the only reason why the unemployment rate is going down in this country and in this Province. MR. NEARY: They are better off in Ethopia than they are here. HR. CALLAN: But, Mr. Speaker, getting back to my resolution regarding the terrible state of the Trans-Canada Highway and the need for the infusion of millions of dollars, this report, not a report done by the Liberal Party or the ND?

Party or by the PC Party, but an independent report, tells us that $1 billion is needed just to bring the paved

section of the Trans-Canada Highway and our major secondary roads, up to the standards enjoyed across Canada. So we need at Least $1 billion. So, Mr. Speaker, I repeat what I said earlier: The Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) and the Premier will have failed if, when they come back from Ottawa the day before that election is to be called, the agreement signed regarding the offshore does not contain money for a roads prograirmie.

There must be a clause in there which says. 'Because of the collateral which is contained within the Hibernia field and on the Grand Banks in general, because of collateral in the billions of dollars that Newfoundland will be pouring into the national economy in the years that lie ahead, we are saying to the Province of Newfoundland and its Transportation Minister here is $2 bi.11ion over four or five years, $1 billion to be spent to bring its highways system up to par with the rest of Canada and an additional $1 billion to bring up to standard the remaining roads in the Province, the 1,800 miles of unpaved roads.' At least part of that offshore agreement, should be at least $2 billion for transportation alone, Mr.

Speaker. Unless the Premier and the Minister of Transportation and the other ministers in this administration come back with something like that in the agreement, then they need not bring it back to this Province and call an election. They need not bother. Because the people of this Province, Mr. Speaker, are sick and tired of the empty Tory promises that we have seen in provincial elections over the past several years and, of course, in the most recent federal election. Now, Mr.

Speaker, as I said, in the twenty minutes that I will have next Wednesday to conclude this debate I want to make a district speech, I want to talk L4768 November 14, 1984 R4768

about the local roads, and I want to talk about what the Minister of Transportation (Hr. Dawe) had to say on June 12, on province-wide television that, "We are going to spend the money in PC districts." He said, "We are going to give the money to our friends." I want to dwell on that and I want to elaborate on it and I want to talk about the people in my district. Perhaps that is the reason why the minister changed his mind about coming to my district. You see, Mr. Speaker, it was in the month of May that the Minister of Transportation said that he would visit my district in June.

But it was on June 12 that he made this statement which went across the Province. I am sure he was reprimanded for, I am sure that the Premier gave him a crack on the knuckles and said, "Do not go making these sorts of statements." MR. TULK: The Premier said he did on television. HR. CALLAl1: I hope he did. HR. TULK: He did. Yes. MR. CALLAN: Perhaps that is why he did not go out to my district for fear that if he went to Hodge's Cove or Little Heart's Ease or Southport, or Long Beach he would have discovered that even in the month of June the salt water is still fairly cold. That is what he would have discovered.

Perhaps that is why he reneged on taking his trip to my district in June. And then of course in July, August, September and October, after many, many phone calls to the minister's office, he just sloughed off his commitment, it was forgotten. So these are the sorts of things that I want to talk about in the remaining twenty minutes next Wednesday when I conclude debate on this motion, Mr. Speaker. DR. COLLINS: What do you think your chances are of getting the minister out there now? MR. CALLAN: I would say the minister is rearing to go.

I hope he tells us about the negotiations that have been ongoing with the present administration in Ottawa and that he can tell us that in the not too distant future, in the forseeable future, that we will see an announcement talking about all of the money that will be spent on the Trans-Canada, and on secondary and local roads around this Province, and in the district of Bellevue, next Summer and the Summer after that. That is what we are expecting to hear, Mr. Speaker. That is what we are expecting.

But then one cannot help but wonder and question whether the same government that just a few days ago cut out millions and millions and millions of dollars in every facet of its budget, is going to explain making $1 billion or $2 billion available to the Minister of Transportation in this Province. We hope it happens. The rest of Canada will be wondering how it could be done and how the government in Ottawa will explain it. But, as I said, the explanation should come easy: Newfoundland has the collateral. It will be in the form of a loan, actually, Mr. Speaker.

We will give you $2 billion to be spent on highways over five years in L4769 November 14, 1984 R4769

Newfoundland and Labrador but it is not really a gift, it is a grant that will not have to be paid back, Like the Rural RRAP grants. You will not have to pay it back because the economy will be so charged up by offshore exploration and activity and development that it will pour enough into the rest of the country to withstand the $2 billion that they are going to give to us. Mr. Speaker, my time is up believe. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! The hon. the Minister of Transportation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to just take a few minutes on this particular resolution. Perhaps I should deal with it as it is outlined here in Orders of the Day:

WHEREAS the Newfoundland portion of the Trans-Canada Highway is in a deplorable condition; Well, since I was appointed Minister of Transportation almost four years ago, through Ministerial Statements, through press statements, through letters, through dialogue I have been emphasizing the fact that we have the lowest standard of road and transportation anywhere in the country.

The federal government, through its own royal commissions and studies, have recognized that fact that they should be more involved, as they were in other provinces, with the construction of these roads particularly as it relates to the Trans-Canada Highway and major t runk roads, and that we should as a Province of Canada expect a greater contribution from the federal administration. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I am glad that after four years of my saying that, after four years of this administration saying that and repeating it, after commissioning studies and royal commission reports, lo and behold, in March of 1984 a member of the Opposition finally realized there are volumes of information, a voluminous backdrop of statistics and royal commission reports to show what the Minister of Transportation has been saying is true. Mr.

Speaker, I am pleased that finally members of the Opposition have realized that we do have the lowest standard of road anywhere in the country, although they were just a little bit too late. The second

WHEREAS:

WHEREAS to ensure safe and rapid transportation across the island, there is a dire necessity for a four lane highway; Now, Mr. Speaker, I would be very interested in any statistical information that would back up that statement. We have identified a number of areas on the Trans-Canada Highway because of the volume of traffic that needs to be four-laned. Part of that four-laned process was continued this Summer with regard to four laning from St. John's Westward. But, Mr.

Speaker, there is no statistical information, there is no background information to support that the Trans-Canada Highway needs to be four laned from St. John's to Port aux Basques. There is a recognition L4170 November 14, 1984 R4770

as it relates to some improvements that need to be made along the Trans-Canada Highway, improvements that we have made in Western Newfoundland, particularly to the

section between Corner Brook and Port aux Basques that deals with longer passing lanes, improved grade and turn standards, and an improvement to the standard of the roadbed itself. Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about that for just a minute. Part of our problem as it relates to the Trans-Canada Highway has to go back to the old slogan that most of us remember,'We'll. Finish the Drive in' 65 1 . The problem is, Mr. Speaker, that we will still be paying for it in '85.

And we will continue to pay for actions taken by that Liberal Administration which dealt with short-term gain for which we are subject ourselves to long-term pain in trying to repair the inadequacy of that road network. Had they taken the opportunity to build that road to an acceptable standard, then we would not be in the position we are in today trying to improve grades, trying to improve bridges, trying to improve subgrades, trying to improve turns, trying to improve every aspect of the Trans-Canada Highway from St. John's to Port-aux-Basques.

But it was based on that short-sighted objective of completing a substandard road in a designated period of time. So we are left with having to do the repairs that were foisted upon us by a former federal administration in cahoots with the local Liberal Administration of that particular time. MR. NEP.RY: It was all Cabot's fault. He should have never discovered Newfoundland. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR. DAWE: "Whereas, the Province has drastically cut the maintenance and construction budget for roads under its jurisdiction." Not true. Not true, Mr. Speaker. Not true at all.

As a matter of fact, over the past six years the maintenance budget has not only remained consistent but has improved as it relates to our road network in this Province. We spent some $52 million in 1981 on maintenance for our road system in this Province. It increased to $60 million, $62 million, $59 million, and this year, Mr. Speaker, 1984-1985, we will be expending some $63 million plus in the road maintenance programme in this Province. Not a drastic reduction, Mr. Speaker, but a significant improvement when you look at the general state and financial wherewithal of this Province, a significant improvement.

As it relates to construction included in that particular'Whereas' drastic cuts in construction, let us see about the construction costs, Mr. Speaker, since 1980-1981. In 1980-1981, construction costs related to the road network, both the Trans-Canada Highway and secondary roads, come to some $51 million. In 1981-1982, it dropped to $39 million. In 1982-1983, it went to $59 million, in 1983-1984, $73 million, and this present year, Mr. Speaker, $79 million, and that is a substantial and significant increase in construction. So, Mr.

Speaker, that particular part of the resolution, that particular, 'Whereas,' like the other three whereases, is either completely L4771 November 14, 1984 R4771

ft false or redundant. "Therefore,

be it resolved that this House direct the Administration to immediately commission an engineering study of the TCH and other secondary roads to determine what is necessary to bring the TCH and inter-connecting roads up to the standard enjoyed by our fellow Canadians in our sister provinces." Well, Mr. Speaker, that sounds like something I said some four years ago. That sounds like something that the minister before me had enunciated, and the minister before him, and the minister before him, as it relates to the Trans-Canada Highway and other roads. Well, Mr. Speaker, we have done that. That is done.

That has been done for some time. We know exactly from our engineering studies where the weaknesses are, where the structural weaknesses are, where the construction standards of the road are inadequate as it relates to the Trans-Canada Highway. That is the basis of our proposal to the federal government in order to get funding. That has been done. The same thing has been done, Mr. Speaker, as it relates to the secondary roads and other roads in our system. We know exactly what needs to be done, Mr. Speaker, and are approaching it on that basis, based on sound engineering services.

Now as it relates to the information from Trip, the committee that travelled across the country, I wonder, Mr. Speaker, where they got the information, I wonder where they got the statistics, I wonder where they got the engineering results and the engineering information to base their study on. Lo and behold, it was from the very source, the very source, the Department of Transportation's engineering staff that had already done the studies that provided the necessary information for the people in Trip to make their assessment.

And they analyzed the information that was given and confirmed, as any ordinary thinking individual would confirm, that we do have the worst roads in the country and we do need extra help. We will continue to ask the federal government, as we have done in the past, to contribute a little more to this Province because of our particular and peculiar needs with regard to transportation and we will continue to do so.

I look forward to discussions over the next number of weeks and months relating to all transportation improvements with my federal colleague, to make sure that this Province enjoys over the next number of years a high level of transportation services not only as it relates to roads but as it relates to other transportation matters. In comparison, Mr.

Speaker, the Trans-Canada Highway in this Province is not, as is indicated in this particular resolution in a couple of whereases, as substandard as a number of other parts of the Trans-Canada Highway are in other parts of Atlantic Canada, particularly in the Maritime Provinces. We have sections of our TCH that are very adequate according to engineering studies. MR. DAWE: I am just amazed, Mr. Speaker, that they would come forward with this kind of a resolution which L4772 November 14, 1984 R4772

essentially is supporting and saying exactly what I have been saying, what this administration has been saying for years now. Well, it is not amazing, I suppose, but it is somewhat comical to think that they sat over there and shouted "Fed bashing", shouted, "Do not fight for your rights, compromise yourselves. Get down on your knees and go with your tin cup to Ottawa as our former administrations have done, and try and beg a little money." Well, Mr.

Speaker, it is amazing that they would come forward with this particular kind of a resolution in light of the fact that now their cronies are no longer in Ottawa to dole out dollars. MR. CALLAIq: Your cronies are there now. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, how much time do I have? MR. SPEAKER (Ay].ward): Approximately ten minutes. MR. DAWE: Thank you. I just wanted to make sure, Mr. Speaker, before I finished, in light of the last few comments by the member for Bellevue (Mr.

Callan), that I have an opportunity to perhaps clarify, if you will, some of the things that they have been saying relative to a statement that I supposedly made, or an

interpretation of a statement that I made a number of months ago as it relates to how money is spent, provincial funding is designated. Hr. Speaker, I will not be voting for this resolution based on the fact that it is a redundant resolution. And essentially the Opposition are finally recognizing that what we have been doing and what we have been saying has a legitimate basis. And as regards to the 'Therefore,' which says that we do an engineering study, Hr. Speaker, that has already been done, has been done for some time and the engineering information updated in a continuing process. As a matter of fact, Mr.

Speaker, as it relates to the Trans-Canada Highway, it is part of an ongoing process and part of all the agreements is to do an evaluation and a standards test on the TCH and we will be continuing to do that. Mr Speaker, part of the reason for the press conference that led to that newspaper

article the member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) referred to was we enunciated our programme of rehabilitation, something that no other administration had done, and I take some credit for that, and that no other minister had been able to do, and established an ongoing rehabilitation programme which last year saw some $15 million spent on road and bridge rehabilitation projects based on the engineering information and data that had been coming forth from our engineers and our staff in the department. So, Mr. Speaker, the increase to $79 million this year is a positive indication.

The increase in both capital money and maintenance dollars over the past six years clearly flies in the face of the 'Whereas' that deals with reduction. There is no reduction; in fact, there has been a significant increase. Mr. Speaker, in June 1 had a press conference to outline the capital expenditures of my department in this Province. One of the questions asked at the time related to the kinds of criteria used to establish where the capital funding would be spent in L4773 November 14, 1984 R4773

this Province. And I outlined to the media at that time - MR. NEARY: Places that vote Tory, that is where you are going to spend the money. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR. DAWE: - that, based on the engineering information and based on an ongoing process with regard to roads and the various problems in this Province, we had estabLished a priority list and criteria dealing with roads. We have such a problem in this Province. We have $20 million essentially,each year to spend on what the engineers tell me is a requirement for perhaps $100 million.

Just as the studies have indicated, we need some $100 million and we only have $20 million to deal with. Mr. Speaker, if we had all the money we could deal with all the issues, but we do not. In some cases, Mr. Speaker, you have a situation in which a number of roads - based on engineering data, based on available information, based on traffic flows and based on everything else - are essentially the same, you could not really separate one particular kilometer of road from another particular kilometer of road. Hr.

Speaker, there is a function of the elected representatives in this House of Assembly to bring their concerns and their views forward to the ministries in order to solicit funding, to solicit support, to get things for their particular district and it is to their benefit how well they articulate those concerns, how well they can present the legitimate and proper concerns of their constituents. Hr. Speaker, that is a function and a very, very good function and one which a lot of members bring forward with honesty and sincerity. Mr. Speaker, the member from Bellevue (Mr.

CaLlan) on two occasions today referred to conversations that he has asked ministers of this administration to have behind the curtain, a place where traditionally people on this side and ministers have gone out and answered direct questions, have answered some concerns of the members opposite in confidence and in the privacy of looking out through the window at the parking lot. Mr.

Speaker, there are a number of members opposite who do not flaunt that fact, who do not take the information and then throw it back in the face of ministers opposite, they do not abuse that confidence and ridicule the ministers for giving them that information in confidence.

What I said was when we have all those things taken into consideration, and we have a series of kilometers of road each with their own legitimate needs, all of which should be done equally well, what will enter into the conversation and the decision at that point in time will be the kind of honest and straightforward representation that can be given to the minister from the elected representative of the district and I said when it gets down to the crunch, when it gets down to that particular thing it is much easier to deal with your friends than it is with people who call you names day in and day out. Mr.

Speaker, unfortunately Hansard was not available today, because today I really wanted to outline some of the things that the member from LaPoile (Mr. Neary) and the member from Bellevue (Mr. Callan) LA 774 November 14, 1984 R4774

said, the kinds of names and insults they hurled over at me as a member of this administration from time to time and then they will go out and say, 'But we cannot get any cooperation, we cannot get any support.' 'i1ell, Mr. Speaker, that was the context in which I made that statement and it is a context which stands not only in this House of Assembly but is a context which stands right throughout the Province in every walk of Life.

The unfortunate thing about that particular press conference was that there were certain individuals in the media who did not like the story about all the money that was being spent on transportation and capital expenditure throughout this Province and brought it down to a little offhanded comment that was made as it relates to those kinds of situations that you are presented with where each in its own right has a legitimate need for funding but in the final analysis it has to be brought forward from the elected member for that particular constituency to argue the case for that constituency. And, Mr.

Speaker, as I said that time I say again, it is much easier to deal with individuals who are your friends. I have not heard my colleagues on this side of the House nor some colleagues on the other side of the House hurl insults and name calling across to members on this side. And I consider them, Mr. Speaker, in the friend category. 1lhat 1 am saying is it is very difficult to deal with those who hurl insults and names at the ministry and at the same time expect to get a positive response from the ministers. Mr. Speaker, it was a legitimate comment. It is one that will be addressed from time to time, Mr.

Speaker, and it speaks well - SOME HON. MgMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! Order, please! MR. DAWE: It speaks well for the members particularly on this side of the House who are able to articulate more effectively the concerns and wishes of their constituents in order to solicit funding from this administration in Transportation and Municipal Affairs and in any other area of government involvement in the various districts. Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the time is going. I had so much to try and get in here that I would have liked to make some direct comments on.

I am sure that the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) will jump upon his feet and, true to form, will hurl more insults, a member, Hr. Speaker, who has yet to write me a letter, asking for some support for a particular project in his district. He has yet to ask for a meeting, to sit down and say, Mr. Minister, we have some concerns, we have some legitimate concerns in my district that I would like for you to address. He has never done it, but the members on this side have done it. MR. STAGO: What? MR. TIJLK: Because he knows it is a waste of time. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR. DAWE: I am sure, Mr.

Speaker, that he will probably run in there now and 'I L715 November 14, 1984 R4775

haul out something that will support perhaps an aspect of the Grand Bay West Road that I had already addressed by having a meeting in an individual's home in Grand Bay West with some forty or fifty of his constituents there who said, "We do not get any satisfaction from the member, what are we going to do?" Mr. Speaker, because they could articulate their concerns better than the member for LaPoile (Hr. Neary). I was able to assist them in some of their road projects and pleased to do so. SOME HON. MEHBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed.

The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, it is good to be back. Despite the weather, if we had more airstrips along the Labrador Coast I would have been in here when the House of Assembly was opened. Hr. Speaker, the resolution discusses upgrading the Trans-Canada and other secondary roads in this Province. I for one support the resolution. The minister said it may be redundant. I would like to dwell on what he was saying about former administrations.

It was the former administration in this Province as well as in Ottawa that ended up building the Trans-Canada, building the Northern Peninsula road, building the Labrador Highway, and the Bonavista, Burin and other roads in this Province, that laid the foundations for them. But, like all things, progress continues and roads that onetime were up to standard for the amount of traffic using them, and that was before tractor trailers and more tourists were coming into the Province, we now find ourselves in a situation where those roads are not up to standard, and gradually we find them deteriorating.

We have seen this government over the past thirteen years going to the federal government again asking for money under a ninety/ten arrangement to upgrade them. The government also said before the last election that they wanted a roads agreement signed and I believe they wanted over $400 million. MR. TIJLK: $470 million. MR. HISCOCK: $470 million they wanted just to bring the roads in this Province up to standard.

And I would assume since this request was made of the former Liberal Administration in Ottawa that it will also go to the present administration in Ottawa and that we will, hopefully, with the good co-operation that we now have in a new era of federalism, we will have a lot more chance, according to the philosophy on the other side, of getting it granted. So, Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Trans-Canada and the other secondary roads, we need that. But I would like to just concentrate on the Trans-Canada just for a short while before I get into the secondary roads. Hr.

Speaker, when you are driving across the Trans-Canada it is being upgraded, again no doubt through federal help. But I am concerned about and the l.A llf$ November 14, 1984 R4776

intersections of the major secondary roads of E the Trans-Canada, whether in the Come By Chance area, be the Northern Peninsula Highway, the turn off in Bay d'Espoir or Burgeo, the Burin Peninsula, the Bonavista Peninsula, or the Bale Verte Peninsula. With all of these major turn of Es, Mr. Speaker, you are driving along in the middle of the night, extremely dark, foggy, rainy, and you often by-pass these turn of Es because you are upon them before you know you are upon them. And I believe, Mr.

Speaker, after the tragic deaths at the intersect ion in Cambo with two people killed, that the Town Council in Gambo put up lights at the intersection and are paying for them themselves. When I contacted Transportation officials, I was campaigning for this from the point of view of trying to work behind the scenes, and asked the various officials in the department, the answer I got from the department itself was if these turn off s are going to be lit like the one at Gambo, it is the responsibility of the municipal government - in the area. But I ask, Mr.

Speaker, is Burgeo supposed to be paying for the lighting of the road down to that area? Is Harbour Breton responsible for paying for the lighting down in Harbour Breton? Is Marystown responsible for paying for the lighting going down the Burin Peninsula? With regard to Bay d'Espoir, Baie Verte, Springdale and Bay de Verde, is each responsible in its area? With regard to the Northern Peninsula, is St. Anthony responsible for paying for the lighting of the intersection? I believe, Mr.

Speaker, when we talk about upgrading the Trans-Canada, the lighting of these major turn offs, is one of the major things that need to be done. Also, Mr. Speaker, we find out now that Deer Lake has the lights put in because of the amount of traffic. Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Roaches Line we find out that people living in the area of these secondary turn of Es have been parking along the side of the road. I commend the Department of Transportation, in this regard, for providing a parking space out by Roaches Line. But, Mr.

Speaker, this is also needed in other turn of Es on the Northern Peninsula, at Bale Verte and at Bale d'Espoir on the Burgeo highway. If a parking lot is needed on Roaches Line,they are also needed in the other areas. And another part that I am also concerned about is the Trans-Canada. There are dozens of areas along the Trans-Canada where you go fishing and you go picking berries, you end up, Mr. Speaker, parking on the side of the road. Why not put in parking areas in some of these more popular areas, Mr. Speaker?

The other thing that I want to talk about with regard to the Trans-Canada are the signs themselves. You are almost upon a community even before you know the name of the community because of the size of the sign. This is a common complaint of tourists coming into the Province. Not only tourists but even residents of our Province when driving across the Province are not finding enough signs showing what the areas are. Because of the problems with the weather and not being able to get a flight out of St.

Anthony yesterday I had the privilege of driving down the Great Northern Peninsula to Deer Lake with some of the council members from St. Anthony. From that trip yesterday, and from having travelled that road many I L4777 November 14, 1984 R4777

times myself, you can see now that the Northern Peninsula is in need of repair in some areas. is the Northern Peninsula road going to go the same way as the Trans-Canada did through neglect,and the Province will finally have to go and get more money from the federal government or are we going to get into a process of upgrading it continually? The member for Bonavista North (Mr. Cross) will agree with me that the Bonavista Peninsula road itself now needs major overall and reconstruction. Of course, the same is also true with regard to Roaches Line and we can go all down the line. So when the Premier, Mr.

Peckford, ended up asking the federal Minister of Transportation (Mr. Axworthy) for $400 million, it was not much when you consider what needs to be done. But, Mr. Speaker, I want to go into secondary roads with regard to Labrador. And I will concentrate a little bit on my own district if I may, Mr. Speaker, because, again, I think it points out the lack of government foresight, the lack of planning and waste and duplication. With regard to my district in particular, and also in other areas of Northern Labrador, thirteen airstrips are being built.

And you would assume that when the federal government was building these airstrips and giving the airstrips to the Province free of cost, putting lighting in, putting up terminal buildings, puting snowclearing and grading equipment in, and even giving the tool boxes for this equipment, given all of this, you would assume - it has been going on for about seven years now, this plan, I have three going out in my district this year - that the Provincial government knew that these airstrips were being built. And what did they do in Paradise River? MacNamara went in and built the airstrip in Paradise River.

What did the residents of Paradise River have to do? We find out now that the road is two kilometers from the community and the residents themselves do not even have a road within their community, they still have a footpath. The same thing is also true for Black Tickle. You go into Black Tickle and you find the road was put there very, very small. Now they have the airstrip, and that road must be upgraded and the same is true for Charlottetown.

When we put the road in Charlottetown, $100,000 was used there, and we ended up arguing that we needed the dump connected up and the schools and the clinic, and we had to fight to get them connected up and we did.

But there is a subdivision in Charlottetown placed where it is because the Department of Crown Lands said it had to be built there, Municipal Affairs said it had to be built there, Environment said it had to be built there and Health said it had to be built there, and the end result was the Department of Transportation came in, built the road throughout of the community, but because that was a new subdivision Left the responsibility to Municipal Affairs, said it was not the responsibility of Transportation and, Mr. Speaker, that community still does not have that subdivision done. And I can go on.

That is not only true for my district, Mr. Speaker, that is true for other areas in the Province. Going on with secondary roads, the road from Main Brook across to the Great Northern Peninsula needs to be done and I hope that the Minister of Transportation (Mr. L4778 November 14, 1984 R4778

Dawe), when asking for the $470 million will include it, and the road from Pinware to Red Bay, and the Basque whaling site, where more discoveries are being made, Mr. Speaker, is going to have a profound affect on tourism on the West Coast and the Northern Peninsula. They are after finding two more Basque whaling ships in that area as well as the other ones. Mr. Speaker, by developing that road we are not only developing the fish plant in Red Bay but also developing tourism.

I hope, because the new Prime Minister's district borders on my district, that he will take note that by developing the road from Pinware to Red Bay he is also developing his own area for tourism because now they go into Quebec by way of coming up the Northern Peninsula and taking the ferry from St. Barbe. Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Trans-Labrador Highway, I say to my colleague when he is talking about secondary roads and upgrading the Trans-Canada, we cannot forget the idea of isolation and how much money has been put in by the federal government in the past to open up Labrador. I only wish, Mr.

Speaker, that the commitment that the former Liberal government in Ottawa and the past administration here made towards Labrador and the Northern Peninsula will be continued by the new administration. In closing, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) ended up saying that it is easier to work with friends than it is to work with enemies. I for one, Mr.

Speaker, work with all the people of this House of Assembly and all of the civil servants not because they vote Conservative, not because they vote Liberal or NDP or they do not vote at all, but because they need water and sewerage, they need a hospital, they need a school, they need pavement through their community, they need upgrading of their fish plants and employment, and I do not ask what political stripe they are, I leave that, Mr. Speaker, for the time of the election and fight that during the election and, after it is over, deal with the people on an equal basis.

Do not deal with them on how this community voted seventy more votes than the other communities so therefore we will give it to this community. Mr. Speaker, that is what has happened all too often in the past and it is a sad state of affairs that a minister of the Crown would admit that publicly on TV. But, Mr. Speaker, by co-operating and pointing out the need to the civil servants who can show what has to be done. But, Mr. Speaker, the question that I have to ask is if the philosophy that the Transportation Minister (Mr.

Dawe) stated, that he would deal only with Conservative districts, now that Ottawa is playing the piper's tune, is the minister saying that the federal Conservative administration will only spend money in seats that are occupied by the Conservative members of the Commons? Is that what he is saying to the members on the Northern Peninsula, that they are not going to get road upgrading in some of those parts? Or the members in Western Newfoundland are not going to get it either because it is represented by a Liberal HP? Is that what Mr.

Crosbie is going to be doing, only looking after his seat and looking after Bonavista Trinity- Conception? Of course, Mr. r L4779 November 14, 1984 R4779

McGrath's district does not need any upgrading with regards to highways because it basically has been done and redone and redone. So, Mr. Speaker, this is a good resolution and it is a sad day in this House of Assembly when you have a Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) up saying it is redundant. I can tell you now, Mr. Speaker, that this resolution was brought in before the federal election and he would not call it redundant if the Liberals were still in Ottawa. This government, Mr. Speaker, would be up saying, *470 iillionis not enough, we need $1 billion. Talk to your friends in Ottawa, talk to Mr.

Rompkey if want the road to Red Bay, talk to Hr. Rompkey if you want the road to Bide Arm, talk to Mr. Tobin if you want the upgrading of the Trans-Canada in Western Newfoundland'. But now, Mr. Speaker, this government is saying it is redundant. And as the Leader of the Opposition (Hr. Barry) has said, it is a conspiracy now, Mr. Speaker, of silence. Do not ask. We have now a provincial government of forty-three seats and a national government of 211, and all the governments in the provinces got to accept what is given to them.

And if they rock the boat, then, of course, the national government has such a majority that they can turn around and say, we will give it to Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, Alberta, or Ontario. Now, Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in a situation that the government here, and all the governments across the country, have no Opposition, Mr. Speaker, in the country as a whole now, because the provinces have given up their responsibility of standing up for the rights of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. And, Mr.

Speaker, in this House we have heard it so many times in the past two elections, stand up and be counted and fight for your rights. But now, Mr. Speaker, what we have, we have a government not standing up for Newfoundland, but standing up for the Tory Party and wondering who is going to become the new senator? Who is going to become the new judge from Atlantic Canada? Who is going to be appointed to the Chairman of this national committee or going to be on it? We now have the majority of members on that side, Mr.

Speaker, almost up for retirement and they are now ready to sell Newfoundland down the drain and say to the national government in Ottawa, "We will take what you give us. The $470 million, we were not really serious about that, we were only trying to embarrass the federal Liberal Government, and Mr. Rompkey, so you can cut that down to $40 million or $50 iillion." And that is what we have, Hr. Speaker, we have a government now that is a conspiracy of silence and we have them now, Mr. Speaker, giving in to the national government because of their political strength. But, Mr.

Speaker, we have to redo our Trans-Canada, the secondary roads, and also the Trans-Labrador Highway. And I, for one, Mr. Speaker, look forward to co-operating with this government and with the MIPs and with the new government in Ottawa to try to get our fair share of the Canadian economy to make sure that we arrive at a decent standard of living. The minister ended up talking about going up in Ottawa with cap in hand or a tin cup. I would go as far as to say now, Mr. Speaker, this government now has an ideal opportunity since the L4780 November 14, 1984 R4780

Premier ended up saying the $470 million had to be signed before the last federal election. And in conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say if it had to be signed before the last federal election, the main reason was that if agreement on the roads were not signed there would be no construction or paving next year in the Province, and a lot of our construction companies would go under. Three or four months have now passed, and I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that this $470 million, or at least a realistic approach of $200 million can be given as a commitment to this government.

I hope the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) will fight for that amount of money which needs to be given now, Mr. Speaker, so that planning can be done over the Winter and tenders can be called early Spring. So, Mr. Speaker, in concluding, I support the resolution and I regret that this government now is only getting up and vQting against this because there happens to be a change in government in Ottawa and not because Newfoundland and Labrador needs the programme. Mr. Speaker, the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr.

Woodrow) is getting up and I hope he will continue to reiterate what he said time and time again, that the Gulf should be part of the Trans-Canada and I hope he will use his influence with Mr. Muironey to get that done. MR. DAWE: The planning is all done. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. member for Bay of Islands. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: I would like first of all, even though the member has left the Chamber, to congratulate the new member for Menihek (Mr. Fenwick).

I have never met the gentleman formally but he is a very honest and hard working person and after trying many times made his way to the House of Assembly. I think his road though is a long and arduous one. Mr. Speaker, I would also Like to congratulate the three former speakers, especially the member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock), because he has said some things which I will probably agree with in the few words I have to say. The minister gave such an articulate speech that I think we could almost deny the motion right away.

I also want to mention there is a very eloquent gentleman in the gallery today who did a lot for Corner Brook, and I refer to Mr. Conzo Cillingham. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: I wish him good luck in all his undertakings. It is nice to see him here, he comes to the Chamber often. I would like, Mr. Speaker, first of all, to read the resolution so it will be on the record.

WHEREAS the Newfoundland portion of the Trans-Canada Highway is in a deplorable condition - MW NFARY Mr. Speaker, may we have a quorum call? MR. SPEAKER (MeNicholas): L413I November 14, 1984 R4781

Order, please!

WHEREAS to ensure a safe and rapid transportation across the island, There is not a quorum present. there is a dire necessity for a four-lane highway; and Call in the members.

WHEREAS the Province has 000 drastically cut the maintenance and construction budget for roads Order, please! under its jurisdiction; There is a quorum present. Is it agreed that the hon. member continues? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. WOODROW: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! No, it is not in order. We have to wait another two minutes. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Before recognizing the hon. member, I would like to welcome a delegation from St. Anthony Council in the gallery. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for the Bay of Islands.

MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I was about to read the contents of the resolution, and I will start over again.

WHEREAS the Newfoundland portion of the Trans-Canada Highway is in a deplorable condition; and THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House direct the administration to immediately commission an engineering study of the TCH and other secondary roads to determine what is necessary to bring the TCH and interconnecting roads up to the standard enjoyed by our fellow Canadians in our sister provinces. I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, as the hon. minister said, it is a little probably too late to be undertaking this right now. But the member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) mentioned, Mr. Speaker, that he would be talking about some of the roads in his district when he has the opportunity of closing the debate next Wednesday. And, Mr.

Speaker, that is what I would like to bring out at the outset, some of the conditions of the roads in my district, and probably conclude this portion of my talk by saying why these roads are in such a poor condition. I want to speak, Mr. Speaker, of such things as local roads, or council roads as some people caLl them, and secondary roads and parts of Trans-Canada Highway that pass through my district. Of course, in the Latter case I will have to look at the TCH from Riverside Drive to George's Lake. I will probably, Mr.

Speaker, also give some members a little lesson on where they Bay of Islands district is and the like. The latter part, from Riverside Drive to George's Lake, is in my district even L4782 I November 14, 1984 R4782

though the rest is in Humber West and Humber East. In fact I have to pass over from Humber West to Riverside Drive to get to the North Shore of my district and also part of this to get to the other side, which is the South Shore of the Bay of Islands. I would like also to give credit, Mr. Speaker, where credit is due. I noticed the member from Eagle River did that; in fact, he seems to be extremely cooperative and you have got to give credit where credit is due.

Over the past three years recapping was done from Hughes Brook Bridge to the beginning of Mclver's and with any luck at all the thirteen kilometers to complete the recapping of Cox's Cove will hopefully be done next year. The road from Mount Moriab to Lark Harbour needs a complete recapping. Some maintenance was carried out over the past three years but the whole road from Mount Moriah down to Little Port and Lark Harbour is in very poor driving condition and I think it is my duty as a member of the district to bring that forth to the House of Assembly. I also say, Mr.

Speaker, that I have received extremely good cooperation from the minister's staff in Deer Lake. I have travelled over the road with his officials in Deer Lake and I think they would agree with me that the whole road needs a recapping job. I will press to have not all of it done, Mr. Speaker, that would be unfair, but I will press to have at least a part of it done in 1985 - 1986, which is of course next year. Mr.

Speaker, I think this problem goes back to the difficulties we had in signing agreements, especially the TCH agreement with the former Liberal Government in Ottawa, because if we had been able to get a ninety/ten, which I think we should have had - MR. WEARY: Or ninety-nine/one. MR. WOODROW: - which we are entitled to, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador would be in a position to spend more money on secondary roads throughout the Province and - MR. WEARY: What were we entitled to? MR. WOODROW: -in the Bay of Islands district. Mr.

Speaker, you know I cannot really forget the couple of times I attended the House of Commons in Ottawa and the arrogance of one Pierre Elliott Trudeau. I remember the present Minister of Justice in Ottawa, the hon. John Crosbie, asking a question, and in fact he was so sarcastic that I did not think he had any use for our Province at all. MR. WEARY: Tell us about the bulldozer - MR. WOODROW Mr. Speaker, I hope this gentleman who is so pious and everything else, I hope he is looking after his soul as good as he is trying to get a quorum in this House.

You should visit Mount Patricia some time over in Corner Brook, see some of your friends over there. MR. WEARY: Do not forget we are going to be - MR. WOODROW: And this applies to our local roads and municipal roads as well. L4783 November 14, 1984 R4783

MR. NEARY: Are you voting Tory? MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I know they realize I am giving a good speech and they are trying to upset me, but no, no, no. We have been too long in the rostrum. MR. BUTT: You will win next time again. MR. WOODROW: There are many local roads in the Bay of Islands district not fit to drive over. It is very hard for councils to find the 4.0 per cent, and government to find the 60 per cent, on the sixty/forty agreement. Of course, as I said, it goes back to the unjust treatment we as a Province had been getting from the former Liberal Administration.

I said during the campaign, "If you want the crumbs, vote Liberal. But if you want to get the loaf of bread, then go along," as many of them did, "with the PC Party." MR. 'J00DR0W: But, Mr. Speaker, I would Like to mention, some of the many overpasses, some of the improvements that have been done on the Trans-Canada, for example, the one that Leads to Stephenville the one in the industrial park in Corner Brook, and there is another one in Corner Brook near Riverside Drive, there is one in Deer Lake leading down the Great Northern Peninsula, there is one in Grand Falls, and there is one in Roaches Line. MR.

BRETT: And Glovertown. MR. 'J00DR0W: And Glovertown was the next one I had to say. Of course, there are two or three near St. John's. But I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, honestly, I am not really altogether happy with the small amount of money spent on the West coast in comparison to what is spent in this great city of St. John's. You know, when my people come in here all they see is roads and roads, all kinds of roads. I would certainly like to see more spent out in the Corner Brook area because we need more.

And at Least I am going to try to do all I can so we will get roads on the West Coast as good as they have on the East Coast. And as the hon. member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock) was saying when he was talking about - I was going to say intercessions, not intersections, so you can have some of them too - exits and so forth on these roads. In fact, Sunday night driving in, I almost made the exit on the Glovertown road. It is very easy to miss the main road, especially on a dark night, up in the Deer Lake area, to go up the Great Northern Peninsula.

It would be nice if the minister would take a look at these intersections and then people would not have to be making intercessions so that he will have these intersections looked after. Mr. Speaker, I think it is quite obvious that since 1972 the PC administration has been trying to complete the Trans-Canada Highway. The whole highway needed to be done because I recall, Like many other Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, that in 1965 the cry went out to finish the drive in '65. And, oh my, oh my, Mr. Speaker!

The pavement was put down over the ice in places and over the snow, put down in December month and so on, as I believe the minister alluded to it today, quite obviously not only 14784 November 14, 1984 R4784

without a good foundation, but without any foundation at all. And, of course, that is the reason why we have to do the Trans-Canada all over again. And I feel, Mr. Speaker, there are certain places we should have four lanes. For example, from Corner Brook to Deer Lake and Bishop's Falls and from St. John's to i,Jhitbourne. I am really surprised that over the twenty years that the Liberals were in Ottawa they did not even build another Trans-Canada Highway so we would have two. But they were spending their money elsewhere, I suppose, in Quebec and with their friends in other places. So, Mr.

Speaker, as I said the motion is a little bit redundant and I cannot go along with it. Mr. Speaker, I think I have a couple of minutes left so I would like also to mention that I think we should have stricter supervision laid down for tractor trailer drivers because they have taken many lives. I have seen drivers, in fact, when I was on the road myself, cross on double lines and it is almost enough to put the driver of a vehicle put into a panic. I should also mention, Mr. Speaker, moose on the highway. Now over the past few years many people have been killed by moose.

I know it is something that probably we cannot cure completely, I am glad that there are more signs being erected all of the time reminding us of moose crossings. Driving in the other night I noted, especially in the Terra Nova Park, there are, thank Cod, a lot more signs. In fact, I was so careful that it took me at least an hour to get through the park and that normally takes a half an hour. Also, Mr. Speaker, I have been advocating now for a number of years that since we became a part of Canada the Gulf crossing, which is approximately 100 miles, should be considered part of the Trans-Canada Highway.

If we were, for example, crossing, say it costs approximately fifteen to twenty dollars plus the rates for trucks and trailers and the Like, then it would be looked after by the federal government just as they maintain the National Parks in Terra Nova and Gros Home. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I suppose it is always nice to mention snow clearing. I can speak for my own district and say we have received very good cooperation and I am sure it will continue. As I have said many times, in particular we have to work for our district, but I think in general, when all is said and done, what matters most is the Province.

So I am sure that we will get the cooperation of the minister and the cooperation of the administration in getting better roads in all our districts. It has been a pleasure to speak, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! HR. WEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. WEARY: Mr. Speaker, the only sensible thing that the gentleman who just spoke said during his twenty minutes was to agree with a proposal that we put forward in Prince Edward Island in August of this year to make the Gulf ferry L4785 November 14, 1984 R4785

service an extension of the Trans-Canada Highway. Mr. Speaker, over in Price Edward Island, when the Liberal leaders in Atlantic Canada, all leaders of the Opposition, met, we unanimously approved a resolution asking the Government of Canada to make the Gulf ferry service an extension of the Trans-Canada Highway.

Up to now they have refused, but now that the hon. gentleman has his pals up in Ottawa he no longer has to deal with the gentleman who got the award for outstanding peace efforts, the former Prime Minister, who went down to New York, down to Washington and got an award - not the provincial award for bravery - but one of the highest awards, I suppose, that a human being could get, that arrogant gentleman that the hon. gentleman just referred to. Mr. Speaker, the only thing that I can say is that if the hon. gentleman had a brain he would be dangerous. MR. ROBERTS: If he had a second brain it would be lonely. MR.

NEARY: And if he had a second brain it would be lonely, that is right. MR. WOODROW: I know what is in yours. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I remember the hon. gentleman when he was on Woods Island and he relocated the whole population of Woods Island. Without consulting with anybody, without any prior consultation, he took the people of f Woods Island. MR. WOODROW: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): A point of order, the hon. member for the Bay of Islands. MR. WOODROW: I do not think relocation has anything to do with the Trans-Canada Highway. MR. TULK: It has a lot to do with transportation. MR.

WOODROW: I think the member should be relevant to the motion. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order, I would remind the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) that we are discussing a motion put forward by the hon. member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan), concerning the Trans-Canada Highway. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: But anyway, Mr. Speaker, I will not embarrass the hon. member by teLling the House what he did after relocating all of the people without permission, without authority or anything else - MR. TULK: It had a lot to do with transportation. MR.

NEARY: - and then sent the bill to the Premier and the Cabinet, and they were silly enough and foolish enough to pay it. MR. WOODROW: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): On a point of order, the hon. member for the Bay of Islands. L4786 November 14, 1984 R4786

MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, that is absolutely false. I cannot call the hon. member a liar, it would not be permitted to say that. But that is absolutely false, and it should be stricken off the record. Because it is a very serious statement to make about a member and I think it should be stricken off the record regardless of what the member for the Strait of Belle Isle says also. He should certainly withdraw it. HR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order, there is a difference of opinion between two hon. members, obviously. But I would remind the hon. member for LaPoile (Hr.

Neary) that we are discussing a motion pertaining to the Trans-Canada Highway. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Yes, Hr. Speaker, these people from Woods Is land were transported up the Trans-Canada Highway, their furniture and their personal belongings brought in a truck that was purchased by the hon. gentleman and a bulldozer purchased by - HR. WOODROW: On a point of order, Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): A point of order, the hon. member for the Bay of Islands. MR. WOODROW: At least I am taking the time. This is absolutely false. Absolutely. In fact this could get strewn around.

In fact, God knows what could happen. I think it should be stricken from the record. I do not mind making a joke, Mr. Speaker. Ml? rac• Ask him to go outside of the House and say it. MR. WOODROW: Absolutely. I asked him to come out of the House and say it. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, there is a difference of opinion between two hon. members. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Anyway, Mr. Speaker - MR. ROBERTS: Ray Baird says it is a boat that the member owned. HR. NEARY: It was a boat, was it? Oh, he brought them in a boat. No, he brought a truck.

I remember seeing the truck listed on the bill that he sent in, a :ruck and a bulldozer. Anyway the administration of the day paid the bill. It was silly enough and foolish enough to pay the bill. And then that crowd had the face over there to accuse us of being the Godfathers of relocation. There is the real Godfather of resettlement down there in the corner, look. HR. ROBERTS: Saved, Luke, at last. MR. WOODROW: You made my day. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman should have asked forgiveness of His Holiness the Pope when he was here, Mr. I4737 November 14, 1984 R4787

Speaker. He should have asked his forgiveness for being a Tory, for voting Tory. MR. PATTERSON: It was built to win the Liberal election in 166. But anyway what we are dealing with here now is a resolution proposed by my colleague, the member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan), asking to have a feasibility studydone with a view to twinning the Trans-Canada Highway. Now we saw the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) rise to respond to the resolution, twist and turn and skuirin, Mr. Speaker, like a weasel looking for a hole to crawl into. Mr. Speaker, here is what the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) said in response to my colleague. He said that the Trans-Canada Highway, the whole trouble with it is this, and somebody said, "Finish the Drive in '65", and he said, "Yes, it was poorly constructed." Now, Mr. Speaker, when the Trans-Canada Highway was built, when the Trans-Canada Highway was completed in '65 I would say that we had very, very few tractor-trailers in this Province, very few. Just shortly after the Trans-Canada Highway was completed the freight movement shifted from railway to containers, containerization became the thing, and, Mr.

Speaker, the Trans-Canada Highway was not built for these tractor-trailers, was not built for the heavy buses, was not built for the traffic that is going over it at the present Lime, it was not built f or that. And what has happened is that the gentleman who was looking for an excuse should have admitted that he has allowed the Trans-Canada Highway to be abused by the amount of heavy traffic that is going over it. The Trans-Canada Highway is almost twenty years old. At the time it was built to standard. MR. NEARY: Listen to that! MR.

ROBERTS: Unlike the tunnel across the Straits that was never finished and was supposed to be built to win the election in 175. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman will recall another letter that he wrote. Just talking about that election, I could remind the hon. gentleman of another letter that he wrote. MR. ROBERTS: Who, Luke? MR. NEARY: He wrote two or three. Every election we would get a letter from the hon. gentleman and he would get his little donation. MR. WOODROW: You will not say it outside the House. MR.

NEARY: He would get his little donation and then then he told us one day he was going to run Liberal, he wa going to announce the next day. And we turn on our radio the next morning and he is out cunning for the Tories. Frank Moores took him up on a high mountain. MR. TULK: Up in the helicopter. MR. NEARY: The helicopter. But anyway, Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that we would not have had a Trans-Canada Highway in L4188 November 14, 1984 R4788

Newfoundland had it not been for Lester B. Pearson and the first ninety/ten arrangement that we had in this Province. Do you think we would have a Trans-Canada Highway today, Mr. Speaker, if you had to depend on the Tories in this Province? They cannot point their finger to one project, one major project that they have undertaken since 1972, not one. AR HON. MEMBER: Cow Head. MR. WEARY: Mr. Speaker, Cow Head is only an expansion of a shipyard that was put there by a Liberal Government. You know, Mr. Speaker, Mr.

Smallwood now is trying to recover from a stroke that he had, he is fighting hard to rehabilitate himself, but, Mr. Speaker, up to the time of Mr. Smaliwood we had twenty-two premiers in this Province and I would say his Liberal administration did more than all the other twenty-two put together and we have had two since then and you can throw them in with the lot, Mr. Speaker. We would not have had a Trans-Canada Highway at all because they prostulate - is that a right word? MR. ROBERTS: Procrastinate. MR. WEARY: No, they prostulate.

They dream things, they make statements that are not true, they are continuously prostulating. MR. TULK: What? MR. WEARY: Not right? MR. OTTENHEII1ER: Proselytizing. MR. WEARY: The hon. gentleman hit the nail on the head. That is the game they play. DR. COLLINS: Perhaps you mean they have a prostate. MR. ROBERTS: If they hit the prostate on the head you will know it. MR. WEARY: Thank Cod for the academics, Mr. Speaker. But there would be no Trans-Canada Highway, no more than we would have anything else in this Province, if we had to depend on a Tory administration. Now, Mr.

Speaker, we have reached the point in this Province where the Trans-Canada Highway is outdated. The Construction Association told us several months ago that we have the worst roads in the whole of Canada. What a condemnation of the administration there opposite! What an indictment of the present administration! What did they do? Did they set about to do anything about it? No, they just sit there and whine and complain and moan and groan. That is all they have been doing for four years, Mr. Speaker.

In the meantime, the Trans-Canada Highway is deteriorating and the hon. gentleman, when he did get some money form Ottawa to upgrade the Trans-Canada Highway, he did most of the work in his own riding, in his own district, down in St. Georges. The worst part of the Trans-Canada Highway is between Stephenville and Port aux Basques. You are risking your L4789 November 14, 1984 R4789

Life when the ferry comes in and the tractor-trailers start barrelling up that highway. You are risking your Life driving down that highway at night, especially in the Wintertime. The year before last I went up and down there twenty-two times and this year fifteen times so far, so therefore I am very familiar with the highway, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so you can see what the problem is. The problem is that the Trans-Canada Highway needs to be updated, it needs to be twinned.

If we are ever going to have a tourist industry in this Province we need to make the Gulf ferry service an extension of the Trans-Canada Highway and we need to twin the highway and we also need a second highway along the Southwest Coast. Mr. Speaker, is that what we are going to get from the Tories now in Ottawa? The hon. gentleman who has just sat down talked about the arrogance of Mr. Trudeau. Well, let us see what Mr. Muironey and Mr. Wilson will deliver to this Province. We have seen an example in the last three or four days of what we are going to get in the way of transportation.

We are going to have six ships removed from the Gulf ferry service, we are going to have a total elimination in the next year or so of the rail car ferry across the Gulf, we are going to have a discontinuance of taking the freight from the rail cars in Port aux Basques and putting it in containers or putting it in other cars to be sent of f to the customers. We are going to have a discontinuance of that. DR. COLLINS: Are containers bad? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman obviously was not listening to what I said. The containers are going to provide jobs in North Sydney, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, the lifeblood, the thing that saved Port aux Basques was truck to truck, the transfer of the standard guage wheels, when the car came across the Gulf, transfer the standard guage wheels over to the the narrow guage system. That is what saved Port aux Basques and now the Tories are going to do away with it. DR. COLLINS: Are you suggesting to keep the narrow guage? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman should not be so silly. We are going to see six ferries removed from the Gulf.

Today I asked one of our research people to call the Ministry of Transport office to get some details about the cutbacks and the layoffs and the closures and the slashing and the hacking of services of CN Marine and TerraTransport. And, you know, what this man by the name of Tom Van Dusen, who is the press agent for the Ministry of Transport, said during the conversation? He said that these six ferries will be replaced by three new ferries, one, of which, he said, is already in operation. Now that is how much they know about what is going on, one already in operation. One is under construction, the Caribou.

And so, Mr. Speaker, all you have to do is look at this Order Paper for Wednesday, and every resolution that was put down by hon. gentlemen there opposite is a criticism of the Government of Canada. And now the hon. gentleman,today when they were speaking, could not take the positive approach and say, 'We are L4790 November 14, 1984 R4790

now going to Ottawa and they are going to give us a 90/10 deal to twin the Trans-Canada Highway, to build a new highway on the Southwest Coast.t No, they did not say that, they got up and said, 'It is all Hr. Trudeau's fault that we cannot upgrade the highway because when he used to go in the House of Commons he was arrogant.' Tell us what they are going to do. Stand up and give us your plans. You cannot apologize any more, you cannot whine or complain any more about a Liberal administration in ottawa, you cannot take the cowardly way out. HR. STAGG: We never did. MR. NEARY: They certainly did, Mr. Speaker.

They took the cowardly way out and now they cannot weasel their way out. HR. STA GG- Cowards, are we? I will have a few words about the cowards. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we know all about traitors to this Province. What about the 15 per cent that is going on the rates on the Gulf? What is that going to do to the cost of Living in this Province? And what is it going to do to the tourist industry? And how many jobs are going to be eliminated, Mr. Speaker? That is what they are telling us. DR. COLLINS: Those rate increases apply all over the country. MR. NEARY: Mr. Wilson and Mr.

Mulroney, and our Premier now who is up there with them, are looking at Newfoundland from the vantage point of Bay Street in Toronto. All they are worried and concerned about is Bay Street. And what they are doing, the hon. gentleman knows, is disasterous to Newfoundland. They are going to rape Newfoundland socially and economically. The hon. gentleman talks about cowards and traitors. Let them have the courage on that side of the House to now stand up for Newfoumndland, join with us in supporting and defending Newfoundland. Never mind crawling, never mind trying to use weasel words, Mr. Speaker. MR.

STAGG: Save us from their help. MR. NEARY They should come across the House now and join with us in fighting these slashes and cutbacks. The way the new Tory administration is brutalizing the people of this Province is callous and cruel. MR. TOBIN: Tell us what you did on the offshore agreement. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we will deal with the offshore agreement in due course. We will deal with that in due course. And before I take my seat, Hr. Speaker, the hon. Minister of Transportation (Hr.

Dawe), this afternoon when he got down in the gutter with his low debate, said that I had never written him, I had never made representation to him. Well, I have got several pieces of correspondence here, Mr. Speaker, that proves that the hon. gentlemen is a liar, that he set out to deliberately mislead this House, Mr. Speaker, and I have the correspondence here to prove it. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): L4791 November 14, 1984 R4791

Order, please! Order, please! The hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) referred to an hon. member of this House as a liar. I would ask him to withdraw that statement, please. Mr. Speaker, is it deliberately misled, or misled, which is it? MR. STAGG: Either. MR. NEARY: Well, of course, Mr. Speaker, I withdraw.

But I want to point out to the House that I wrote the minister about the speed limit in Isle aux Morts, I wrote him about the road to Grand Bay West, I wrote him about assistance for road repairs in Petites, I wrote the hon. gentleman about assistance for the roads in Grand Bruit and LaPoile, and the recapping of the highway between Rose Blanche and Port aux Basques. I wrote seven times, I think it is, about the road to Grand Bay West. MR. CALLAN:: And you could go on and on. MR.

NEARY: And I could go on and on, and if I am not allowed to call the hon. gentleman a Liar I would have to say that he certainly came pretty close to it, pretty close. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Table it. Table it. MR. NEARY: Yes, I will table it, of course I will. He came pretty close, Mr. Speaker. He certainly misled the House. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward Order, please! The hon. member fully realizes that he cannot accuse another hon. member of this House of misleading the House. I would ask him if he would withdraw that remark also. MR. NEARY: MR.

SPEAKER: Well, in the book here it refers to an hon. member referring to another hon. member as misleading or deliberately misleading, both, so I would ask the hon. member if he would withdraw. MR. NEARY: Well, Your Honour is quoting from Beauchesne, so I withdraw. Mr. Speaker, I would say out of all the members on that side, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) has to be the most arrogant, more arrogant than the Premier and that is saying something, Mr. Speaker, but the Minister of Transportation has to be the most arrogant of all.

That is evident by his statement that he made - where is that thing that he had there? - Mr. Speaker, back on June 12, 'It pays to vote Tory." And we saw him again this afternoon with his weasel words trying to slink and crawl away, trying to weasel his way out of the statement that he made that is embarrassing to the administration. "It pays to vote Tory, Transportation Minister Ron Dawe announced." MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. WEARY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Stephenville. SOME HON. MFBERS: L4192 November 14, 1984 R4192

Hear, hear! MR. SIMHS: Can we hear some sense for a change? MR. STAGG: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I certainly hope so, I certainly hope to be able to add to the debates from this side as been so abLy put by the member for the Bay of Is Lands (Mr. Woodrow), and the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe), but first I would like to address myself to some of these rather provocative statements that have been put forward by the former Leader of the Opposition. MR. SIMMS: Which one? MR. STAGG: Well, he is the former Leader of the Opposition.

The former, former Leader of the Opposition was defeated in 1982, the former, former, former Leader of the Opposition was re-elected in the Straits of Belle Isle. Anyway there are so many leaders of the Opposition opposite that practically every one of them has a secretary with minister's secretarial privileges. So I do not know if that is what they do, they upgrade their secretaries by becoming leaders of the Oppositon. The former Leader of the Opposition spoke about cowards. He called the members here cowards. Now if there is any group that would have familiarity with cowardice, Mr.

Speaker, it is certainly the - how many of them are there now? - eight members opposite who are adherants of the Liberal faith in this Province, the eight members opposite who would be experts on the subject of cowardice. Because there has been no greater example of cowardice than that exhibited by hon. members opposite, certainly for the sixteen years in which the Liberals held office in Ottawa, when they were slavish adherants to the party Line as exhibited in various times by the Cabinet ministers who ostensibly represented Newfoundland.

They could always find apologists for the most damnable objectives that were put forward by the government in Ottawa, and the electorate in Newfoundland for some reason seemed to faLl for these positions as put forward by hon. gentlemen opposite during federal elections, and they used to re-elect these federal members. There was a curious schizophrenia in the electorate in Newfoundland. When it came time to vote provincially they always through out Liberals and rejected them as , in fact, cowards. They did not want to be represented by cowards.

But when it got time to vote federally, curiously, in many areas people who voted PC provincially would then vote Liberal federally. Now it is a gradual withdrawal, I guess ,because Newfoundlanders, you know, from 1949 until March of 1972, when the first great revolution took place, had been imbued with, and the school books were full of it and the propaganda machine was quite a marvel to behold and no one has really thoroughly examined that just to see how insidious it was and how it was implanted in people's minds for twenty plus years that the only way to vote in Newfoundland was to vote for the Liberal Party.

So that is gradually changing for the first time since 1968. In 1968 the people of Newfoundland rejected the arrogance of Premier Smallwood at that time, but it was L4793 November 14, 1984 R4793

not really until 1984 that we elected more members federally than did the Liberals. So it is a gradual process. But as somebody said, and I forget who it was, but I am sure the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. Roberts), with his power of recall for these things will know, somebody said,'The mills of the Gods grind slowly, but they grind exceeding small.' MR. ROBERTS: Exceeding fine. MR. STAGG: Small. Fine. It gets the point across. And the mills of the Gods are grinding for the Liberal Party in Newfoundland.

And the cowardice that has been exhibited by the Liberal Party over the years is not going to be forgotten by the people of Newfoundland, the cowardice that allowed the Trans-Canada Highway to be pushed across this Province through bogs and over streams AN HON. MEMBER: Bulldozed across. MR. STACG: Bulldozed across, yes - so that the drive could be finished in '65. We all recall that. Most of us were of voting age at that time, some of us were not at voting age at that time. I suppose there is a few of them here like the member for Burin-Placentja West (Mr.

Tobin) was still in elementary school at that time, but he probably transversed the Trans-Canada Highway. But it was a big thing and Pearson's Peak was erected halfway across the Province, and it was used as a rallying cry for the 1966 election, at which time the Liberal party reached the apex of its power in the Province it elected thirty-nine of forty-two members. It was a great time for Liberals, it was a great time for young Liberals. Some of these young Liberals are still in politics today, but not so young any more.

It was the apex of their power, the succeeding five years, and they had been grovelling and scratching and fighting and attempting to get back into power. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, the fuzzy haired youth in the Liberal party of 1966 are now becoming grey at the temples and frayed of nerve and they are becoming fewer in number across this Province. So they were the people who were part of that conspiracy of silence between 1949 and 1972 that allowed Newfoundland to get inferior transportation facilities from the federal government.

It is an obvious fact when you travel across this Province today, if you travel the Trans-Canada Highway during the rain, there are four rivers on the highway. Where the tractor trailers pass by you see gouges in the highway and the water comes to meet you and you have to be very careful that you do not hydroplane across the highway and run into somebody hydroplaning across from the other side because - MR. BAIRD: Your rudder gets stuck? MR. STAGG: Yes, you almost need a rudder on the Trans-Canada Highway at the present time. That is because, Mr.

Speaker, the Liberal Party when they were in power, with their cost plus contracts and their cost plus friends, allowed an inferior transportation system to be built across this Province. Now we, L4794 November 14, 1984 R4794

since 1972, have been reversing that and a classic example of it is the Trans-Canada Highway from Port aux Basques to George's Lake. Anybody from the Eastern part of this Province who would decide to go over to the Western part, which of course is God's country anyway and there are many reasons to visit the Western part of the Province, not the least of which is because it is represented almost exclusively by Tories, it is the blue part of the Province, although there is one down on the corner and there is one out on the Port au Port Peninsula but other than that it is an area of Tories. MR.

TOBIN: That is changing. MR. STAGG: It is changing. It is gradual but it is inexorable. In any event, the Trans-Canada Highway that has been built since 1972 is a highway that has been built to the highest of standards. This resolution calls for a four lane highway. I do not know if it says that he wants a divided highway. It say