British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, February 24, 2009 (38th Parliament, 5th Session) (H0224pm-10) (H0224pm 10)

H0224pm-10

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session, 38th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Tuesday, February 24, 2009 Afternoon Sitting Volume 38, Number 10

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc Fifth Session, 38th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on. Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ...........................................................................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Deputy Premier and Minister of education and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy .........................................................................................h on. Shirley bond Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .................................................................................................. h on. Michael de Jong Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................. h on.

Murray c oell Minister of a griculture and l ands ..................................................................................................................................... h on. r on c antelon a ttorney General and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism .......................................................................... h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development ..........................................................................................................h on. t om c hristensen Minister of State for c hildcare ................................................................................................................................................. h on. l inda r eid Minister of c ommunity Development ............................................................................................................................. h on. k evin k rueger Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Gordon h ogg Minister of environment and Minister r esponsible for c limate a ction .......................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of Finance and Minister r esponsible for the o lympics .................................................................................. h on. c olin h ansen Minister of Forests and r ange ....................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ................................................................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport .....................................................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour and citizens' Services ................................................................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .........................................................................................................h on.

John van Dongen Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development and Minister r esponsible for the a sia-Pacific initiative .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...........................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker ..............................................................................................................................................................................Sindi h awkins Deputy Speaker .....................................................................................................................................................................k atherine Whittred a ssistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................Sue h ammell Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern l egislative l ibrarian ............................................................................................................................................................................ Jane t aylor l egislative c omptroller .......................................................................................................................................................................

Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................Penticton–o kanagan Valley bell, h on.

Pat (l) ...............................................................Prince George n orth bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................e ast k ootenay black, h on. iain (l) ......................................................Port Moody–Westwood bloy, h arry (l) ....................................................................................burquitlam bond, h on. Shirley (l) ....................................Prince George–Mount r obson brar, Jagrup (nDP) .....................................................Surrey–Panorama r idge c ampbell, h on.

Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, h on. r on (l) ......................................................n anaimo-Parksville c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c hristensen, h on. t om (l) ..................................................o kanagan-Vernon c hudnovsky, Dave (nDP) ........................................... Vancouver-kensington c oell, h on.

Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ............................................Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) ...........................................West kootenay–b oundary c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c ubberley, David (nDP) ..............................................................Saanich South de Jong, h on.

Michael (l) ................................... a bbotsford–Mount l ehman Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway e vans, c orky (nDP) ..................................................................n elson-creston Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................. Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain Fleming, r ob (nDP) ................................................................

Victoria-h illside Fraser, Scott (nDP) ...............................................................a lberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) .................................................. Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission h awkins, Sindi (l) ..................................................................k elowna-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-burrard h ogg, h on. Gordon (l) ......................................................

Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca h orning, a l (l) .............................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry ilich, o lga (l) .......................................................................... r ichmond c entre James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill Jarvis, Daniel (l) .................................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ............................................e squimalt-Metchosin k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ali, h arry (nDP) ........................................................................... Y ale-lillooet l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) ....................................................... Peace r iver South l es, John (l) ............................................................................c hilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke McGinn, Jenn (nDP) .........................................................

Vancouver-Fairview Mcintyre, h on. Joan (l) ........................................ West Vancouver–Garibaldi Mack ay, Dennis (l) ....................................................... bulkley Valley–Stikine n uraney, John (l) .............................................................. burnaby-Willingdon o ppal, h on. Wally, Qc (l) ........................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, hon. barry (l) .............................................................c hilliwack-k ent Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Puchmayr, c huck (nDP) .......................................................n ew Westminster r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, h on. l inda (l) ...................................................................r ichmond e ast r ichmond, c laude (l) .........................................................................k amloops r oddick, Valerie (l) ..........................................................................Delta South r outley, Doug (nDP) ......................................................c owichan-l adysmith r ustad, John (l) .......................................................... Prince George–omineca Sather, Michael (nDP) .........................................

Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ................................... Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, r ick (l) .................................................................. o kanagan-Westside t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, h on.

John (l) ............................................a bbotsford-c layburn Whittred, k atherine (l) ........................................ n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Wyse, c harlie (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo South Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant .............................................................................................. c omox Valley Vacant .......................................................................................Peace r iver n orth Vacant ....................................................................................

Vancouver-l angara liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-c layburn .................................................... h on. John van Dongen a bbotsford–Mount l ehman ...........................................h on. Michael de Jong a lberni-Qualicum .............................................................................

Scott Fraser bulkley Valley–Stikine ...............................................................Dennis Mack ay burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee burnaby-e dmonds ..........................................................................r aj c houhan burnaby-Willingdon .....................................................................

John n uraney burquitlam .......................................................................................... h arry bloy c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c ariboo South................................................................................. c harlie Wyse c hilliwack-k ent.....................................................................h on. barry Penner c hilliwack-Sumas ..................................................................................

John l es c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley..............................................................................................Vacant c oquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Diane Thorne c owichan-l adysmith ...................................................................

Doug r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South..................................................................................Valerie r oddick e ast k ootenay .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett e squimalt-Metchosin .........................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman k amloops ................................................................................c laude r ichmond k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ................................................................... a l h orning k elowna-Mission .........................................................................Sindi h awkins l angley.......................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca ....................................................................John h organ Maple r idge–Mission ....................................................................r andy h awes Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo-Parksville .............................................................h on. r on c antelon n elson-creston ................................................................................ c orky evans n ew Westminster .................................................................... c huck Puchmayr n orth c oast.......................................................................................

Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ............................................... k atherine Whittred n orth Vancouver–Seymour ...........................................................

Daniel Jarvis o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong o kanagan-Vernon ..........................................................h on. t om c hristensen o kanagan-Westside .........................................................................r ick Thorpe Peace r iver n orth ......................................................................................Vacant Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton–o kanagan Valley................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain ...........................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George n orth .......................................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Mount r obson ............................................h on. Shirley bond Prince George–omineca ................................................................. John r ustad r ichmond c entre ................................................................................. o lga ilich r ichmond e ast ..........................................................................h on. l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ........................................................................... David c ubberley Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey–Panorama r idge ...................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ............................................................. h on. Gordon h ogg Vancouver-burrard ....................................................................Spencer h erbert Vancouver-Fairview .......................................................................Jenn McGinn Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington ........................................................David c hudnovsky Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ....................................................................................Vacant Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ......................................... Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria-h illside ..............................................................................r ob Fleming West kootenay–b oundary ........................................................ k atrine c onroy West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Y ale-lillooet ......................................................................................... h arry l ali Party Standings: l iberal 42; n ew Democratic 34; Vacant 3

CONTENTS t uesday, February 24, 2009 a fternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13939 Statements (Standing order 25 b) ........................................................................................................................................ 13939 t errace and h ockeyville competition r . a ustin Woodscan industries and l egend Power h. b loy Government support for hospice care S.

Fraser Fire at 108 Mile r anch resort J. r ustad Women's Memorial March J. kwan c hildren's a rts Festival in r ichmond J. Y ap oral Questions ....................................................................................................................................................................... 13941 budget provisions for children at risk c. James h on. t . c hristensen n. Simon s M. k aragianis a ccess to ministry report by r epresentative for c hildren and Yo u t h a. Dix h on. t . c hristensen M. Farnworth l iquor tax increase b. r alston h on. r . c oleman budget revenue projections r .

Fleming h on. c. h ansen Disclosure of documents in b.c. r ail court case l. k rog h on. W . oppal Point of Privilege ................................................................................................................................................................... 13946 S. Fraser t abling Documents ............................................................................................................................................................... 13947 r evised

schedule i, fiscal year ending March 31, 2009 Motions Without notice ....................................................................................................................................................... 13947 Membership of select standing and special committees h on. M. de Jong Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................. 13947 D. r outley

c ommittee of Supply ............................................................................................................................................................ 13948 Supplementary estimates: Ministry of h ousing and Social Development (continued) D. c hudnovsky h on. r . c oleman J. kwan n. Simon s Supplementary e stimates: Ministry of h ealth Services a. Dix h on. G. a bbott G. Gentner

13939 tueSD a Y , Februar Y 24, 2009 The h ouse met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. M. de Jong: i'm thrilled. t oday in the gallery my brother r ick and his wife t racy are visiting from West k elowna. i hope the whole h ouse will make them feel welcome. G. Gentner: in the gallery today are friends of mine and long-term community activists from r ichmond: Jean Sickman, who worked 42 years for the provincial government, and also Golden h andshake John — John l ieffering.

John spent 42 years as the doorman at the prestigious h otel Vancouver, and boy, he must have stor- ies to tell. c an the h ouse please make them welcome. [1335] Hon. J. McIntyre: t oday in the members' gallery we have two special visitors from the u nited States, with whom i've had the pleasure of working. Mr. Phillip c hicola, who is the consul general at V ancouver, is making his very first official visit to Victoria. h e's accompanied by k athleen h ill, the deputy consul general. i was hoping that the house would give them a very warm welcome. Hon. I.

Chong: t oday in the h ouse, as well, are very special guests i'd like to introduce. We have the h on. r on Stevens, Deputy Premier and Minister of international and intergovernmental r elations for the province of a lberta. h e is joined by Daryl h anak, executive direc- tor of trade policy, and Mr. Shawn r obbins, director of internal trade. i hope the h ouse will make them all very welcome. H. Bloy: it's a pleasure to introduce some local busi- ness people to the h ouse today. We have Dave Woods, who is an inventor and founder of Woodscan industries.

We have Scott Johnson, the president of Woodscan industries, and we have David brooks, who provides technical support and is a longtime friend from grade 3. Would the house please make them welcome. D. Hayer: it gives me great pleasure to introduce 56 grade 5 students from Pacific a cademy, which is one of the best schools in c anada. They are here from my riding of Surrey-t ynehead. Joining them are three teachers — Mrs. Sharon Douglas, Mr. Grant Wirtz and Mrs. Sue u-Ming — as well as 28 volunteers and their parents, who have taken time away from their family and their work to accompany these students.

Would the h ouse please make them very welcome. Statements (Standing Order 25b) terrace anD hocke YVille co MPetition Mr. Speaker: The member for Skeena and hockeyville. R. Austin: i would like to speak of my home com- munity, t errace, a very resilient community that is surrounded by mountains and is home of the white spirit bear.

Despite all that this town has endured in the past decade, it has held its head up high and is making its voice heard during the 2009 k raft h ockeyville competition. t errace is one of the final five towns competing for the coveted title. they started their run in late o ctober 2008 and have since made their way through the story-collecting phase, which saw residents submit a total of 716 hockey stories — the third most in c anada. in the top five vote they saw it garner the second most votes.

This small town in northern british c olumbia has shown heart like no other. it has tenaciously showed what it is made of through a sport that is loved by so many across this great province. They are dedicated. For one event a minus-35-degree cold snap couldn't keep children and parents indoors, as many fled to l akelse l ake to play pond hockey. it snowed so much that day that for every five minutes of playing time, there were five minutes of ice cleaning to be done.

That didn't stop hockey lovers from having a day that they will always remember. t errace is the type of place that when it does some- thing, it does it well and does it big. Volunteers built the largest hockey stick in the country to celebrate h ockeyville. This stick was showcased during the h ockeyville-themed c hristmas Parade of l ights. Six hundred students came together to support education as children read the stories they submitted to the cbc. This was followed by a Q-and-a segment with cbc's very own c assie c ampbell.

The indomitable c arol Fielding has formed t errace's h ockeyville committee and galvanized residents, busi- nesses and organizations. e veryone has been giving this competition everything they have, and i commend the town of t errace for all their efforts. n orthwest b.c. has come close before, but this time we will win and then receive $100,000 for rink upgrades, get to host an nhl preseason game and will be crowned h ockeyville 2009. i ask for your support and the support of every citizen in getting behind the last remaining british c olumbia town.

Vote for us as many times as you can between February 28 and March 4, and help make t errace h ockeyville 2009. Just text 222111. [1340]

british c olumbia Debates13940 t uesday, February 24, 2009 Mr. Speaker: n ow, i'm sure the member will become more appropriately dressed as soon as we get into the business of the h ouse. Woo DScan in Du Strie S anD leGenD Po Wer H. Bloy: i rise to inform the h ouse of two great businesses that are working to save the planet and pro- vide energy savings to my constituents and all british c olumbians.

Woodscan industries is an industry leader in environmentally friendly signal devices for construc- tion and mining sites. in the past, disposable air horns used tetrafluoroethene, which has been a leading factor in climate change. n ow Dave Woods, the inventor, Scott Johnson and David brooks at Woodscan have developed a new electronic signal device using nano battery technology to replace the aerosol sounding devices. it will eliminate the use of over 250,000 aerosol canisters, and these products are already being used all over n orth a merica and europe. in burnaby we have l egend Power and its president, ceo Gerry Gill, who have a product called an electrical harmonizer which will save electricity, money and the environment.

The device adjusts the amount of electri- city entering a building to the optimum operating level for each facility. The harmonizer component reduces the amount of electricity used by up to 20 percent. The savings can be used or sold on the electrical grid. it saves money not only on electrical bills but also on maintenance costs, as well as reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The great thing about the electrical harmonizer is that the cost of the device can be recovered within three to four years. installations are in place across c anada at all c anada Post facilities, as well as schools and hospitals. in fact, Science World started using the harmonizer back in 2001. in burnaby ingenuity is home-grown, and there are companies created to make a better planet. i want to thank Woodscan industries and l egend Power for their contributions to a better planet. Go VernMent SuPPort For hoSP ice care S.

Fraser: h ospice is synonymous with quality end- of-life care. i am proud to have stood with the hospice advocates. We persevered until t y Watson h ouse in Port a lberni finally got its doors open just over a year ago. t y Watson has been a huge success, but funds are tight, and fundraising takes much time and effort. i have donated personally, along with many others in the community, but i believe that government must take the lead.

Great news from n ew brunswick. on Valentine's Day there was an announcement that the province of n ew brunswick will work hand in hand with the hospice society there to deliver quality end-of-life care, and n ew brunswick advocates were ecstatic. one of the quotes from the event struck me as signifi- cant.

"Government's commitment to this project signals that n ew brunswick is a gracious and enlightened place, a place in which compassion has a role in good public policy, alongside cost-effectiveness." h ere at home the federation of Vancouver island hospices is trying to work with Viha to establish qual- ity hospice, palliative end-of-life care. They need to be supported. We need leadership here, like we saw in n ew brunswick. This government's own end-of-life framework docu- ment affirms the need for hospice to be an integral part of end-of-life care.

Y et there is virtually no core funding provided, even though the monetary values to the min- istry and to Viha are huge and the value in compassion and care to the community is priceless. l et us in this l egislature ensure that we, too, show the leadership and compassion that we have witnessed in n ew brunswick.

We should be able to hold our heads high and celebrate that we, too, support hospice where the compassion of end-of-life care is made a reality. l ynn t urner of t y Watson h ouse in Port a lberni sent congratulations back to her counterpart in Saint John, and Sandy Johnson replied and thanked our advo- cates in b.c. for "blazing the trail." a ll we need now on Vancouver island is government support. Fire at 108 Mile ranch reSort J.

Rustad: b.c. is blessed with a plethora of natural beauty that attracts tourists from around the world. o ur resorts provide many great experiences and memories to residents and tourists alike. There's a jewel in the centre of b.c . that many consider to be the most fantastic place to go to relax, to enjoy the outdoors and to enjoy the great service and cuisine.

Many people in this h ouse today and many more around the province can tell fond stories of visits to this great location. u nfortunately, i'm saddened today by the news that a fire at the 108 Mile resort ranch has destroyed the north wing of the resort's motel. [1345] e mergency crews responded to calls about a fire at 8 a.m. yesterday morning. Fire departments from the 108 r anch, 100 Mile h ouse and l ac la h ache, along with the rcMP , ambulance and b.c. h ydro, responded to the call. Fortunately, the fire has been contained, and no one was injured.

The 108 Mile resort ranch has contributed immensely to tourism in the north. it's where people from all over british c olumbia and the world vacation to enjoy vari- ous activities such as golfing and horseback riding and especially the beauty the c ariboo has to offer. That's what makes the resort such a unique destination.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13941 i visited the 108 r anch a couple of times for golfing. i have many good memories, and i'm sure the resort will recover soon from this devastation. Please join me in thanking the emergency response personnel for helping to save what they could, and also please join me in wishing the resort a speedy recon- struction so that it can continue to be one of the jewels of tourism in b.c. Wo Men'S MeM orial March J.

Kwan: We all know that February 14 is Valentine's Day, but it is an especially important day in the Downtown e astside neighbourhood. on a clear Saturday morning a few weeks ago, there were four bald eagles flying over - head, and 2,000 people gathered at Main and h astings for the 18th a nnual Women's Memorial March. Women sang and drummed the women's warrior song. it was the largest event the organizers had held to date. in January 1991 a woman was murdered on Vancouver's Powell Street. h er name is not spoken today out of respect for the wishes of her family.

This woman's murder in par- ticular was the catalyst that moved women to action years ago. out of a sense of hopelessness, an annual march on Valentine's Day was organized to express compassion, community and caring for all women in the Downtown e astside community. a nd 18 years later the march con- tinues, with a growing list of names of murdered and missing women in the Downtown eastside. The annual march is an effort to ensure that their lives, struggles and stories will not be forgotten as they work towards justice and closure for the family members.

The event is organized every year to honour the lives of the missing and murdered women from Vancouver's Downtown e astside and the highway of tears.

The February 14 Women's Memorial March remains an important day every year to come to terms with the trauma of lost lives and unanswered questions. i join my community to renew the call for a public inquiry into the missing women of the Downtown e astside and now the highway of tears. e ach year we'll continue to march in order to mourn and remember our sisters by listening to their family members, by taking over the streets and through spiritual ceremonies. o nce again, congratulations to Marlene George, the Downtown e astside W omen's centre, the family mem - bers of the missing women and all the others involved in the 18th a nnual Women's Memorial March for organiz- ing such an important, memorable and elegant event. on behalf of my colleagues in the b.c. l egislature, thank you. chil Dren 'S art S Fe Sti Val in richM onD J.

Y ap: l ast Friday i had the honour of attending the first annual r ichmond c hildren's a rts Festival. This event was held at the beautiful r ichmond c ultural c entre as part of the r ichmond Winter Festival. The organizers scheduled the c hildren's a rt Festival to occur on a pro-D day. a s a result, it was very well attended by primary school students. The c hildren's a rts Festival was not limited to one aspect of art. Various forms were represented, from drama and hand drumming to music and dancing. c hildren also had the opportunity to paint and to learn how to spin records with local deejays.

Some of the high- lights of the event included performances by the t ickle t runk Players and Vancouver TheatreSports league. The r ichmond c hildren's a rts Festival could not have happened without the support of the r ichmond c ultural c entre and the r ichmond Winter Festival. The cultural centre fosters understanding and appreciation of the arts in the community, while the Winter Festival is celebrating its second year in r ichmond. The british c olumbia c hildren's a rt and l iteracy c entre and the city of r ichmond presented this children's art festival.

This was a special event that provided an excellent opportunity for school kids to engage in hands-on workshops led by professional performers and artists. one of the goals of the festival was to promote various art forms as crucial components of school curriculum, not just as secondary subjects.

This important event could not have been possible without the dedicated vol- unteers and the support of the b.c. c hildren's a rt and l iteracy c entre. [1350] Debbie t obin, director of the b.c. c hildren's a rt and l iteracy c entre, is a longtime r ichmond resident and passionate teacher devoted to promoting the arts and literacy. i'd like to congratulate Debbie t obin and all the volunteers who made the first r ichmond c hildren's a rts Festival a great success. Oral Questions buDGet Pro ViSionS For chilD ren at riS k C. James: l ast week the b.c. l iberals cut services and budgets for at-risk children.

The r epresentative for c hildren and Y outh called those cuts "reckless with respect to the lives of the most vulnerable children." The government brushed off those concerns. They said there was nothing to worry about. The opposition has an internal ministry report show- ing the real cost of the b.c. l iberal neglect. l et me quote from that report: "o verall costs of children-in-care expenditures are increasing at rates beyond inflation and beyond the ministry's capacity to continue to fund within existing budgets." My question is to the minister.

Why does he continue to say everything is fine when his own budget and an

british c olumbia Debates13942 t uesday, February 24, 2009 internal report show that you are continuing to fail the most vulnerable children in our province? Hon. T. Christensen: The Ministry of c hildren and Family Development's budget this year will increase a further $14 million. That builds on an over $400 mil- lion increase since the nDP was in government — a 40 percent increase in the ministry's funding to serve vulnerable children. The task ahead of us is to ensure that each of those dollars is spent in a manner that best meets the needs of vulnerable children across our province. Mr.

Speaker: l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. C. James: a fter eight years of this government failing the most vulnerable children, it's a bit tough to take the minister's assurances today for those children. The report speaks for itself: "o ver the last year and a half, the number of foster parents has declined.

Foster care for highly challenged and troubled kids pays the same as homestay programs for foreign students." a nd the result: "a pproximately 16 percent of homes in Vancouver c oastal and 12 percent of homes on Vancouver island are over capacity." This report has example after example after example of a system in crisis. My question, once again, is to the minister. Why should british c olumbians trust the b.c. l iberals when they have brought forward a budget that cuts support for children at risk? Hon. T. Christensen: The l eader of the o pposition is wrong.

This budget increases funding for the Ministry of c hildren and Family Development. This budget continues an increase of $30 million to support foster parents over a three-year period so that we can increase the rates and try and attract additional foster parents into the system.

This is a government that will continue to ensure that we're focusing our resources on front-line workers, on those who are interacting with children and families so that we can be confident that we are meeting their needs. t oday in the north, for example, we're close to 100 percent full on our staffing compared to less than 60 percent ten years ago. Mr. Speaker: The l eader of the o pposition has a fur- ther supplemental. C.

James: i'd suggest that the minister go back and take a look at that budget, which actually reduces front- line staff, and explain to people out there how they're going to provide support with less staff — not more staff — in that budget. in an end-of-year interview the Premier said: "l iterally all of what i've tried to do in my public life is about children." Then he turned around and cut support for front-line workers. [1355] c hildren, the government's report says, are in greater need than ever. i quote from that internal report again: "r egional staff agreed that the acuity of need among chil- dren in care is both more severe and more concentrated — nine-year-olds needing 24-hour double staffing in residential facilities, 13-year-olds dealing with drug addictions and pregnancy." My question is to the Premier.

Why did he break his promise to the most vulnerable children of british c olumbia? Why, once again, has he failed children in b.c.? Hon. T. Christensen: The budget is going up. t oday we're serving twice as many children and youth that are challenged with mental health issues as were served ten years ago. t oday we're serving over 5,000 children and the families of children that are dealing with autism compared to less than 500 a decade ago.

This is a government that has consistently added resources, ensuring that we are serving thousands more children than were served across this province when the members opposite and their party were in government in the 1990s. N. Simons: This isn't just about numbers. it's about boys and girls who for one reason or another can't live with their parents. The Premier promised that there would be no cuts to programs or services for these chil- dren — in fact, that they'd be a top priority.

This budget shows that they weren't a priority at all. in fact, we're going to end up with fewer social workers, fewer foster parents and fewer programs for families. This leaked document shows that government already knows this. Will the minister admit that there isn't enough in this budget for children, and will he go back to the Premier and ask him to reverse the cuts? Hon. T. Christensen: only the nDP could suggest that a budget that adds millions more dollars to serve children and families across the province is a cut. We are adding resources.

We are focusing the spending of those resources on our most vulnerable children and families to ensure that vulnerable children across our province have the care that they require. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N. Simons: in fact, the minister knows very well that any increases at all won't even cover the cost of labour increases. This report is their report, and they should know better. This report points to a system in crisis, a ministry in chaos, and this minister is fiddling while this is happening under his nose.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13943 There's been a 54 percent increase in the use of hotel rooms to look after children who are vulnerable. Foster homes have been decreasing by 8 percent a year for the last three years, and many of them are overcrowded. That's what this report says. The number of children living outside their parental home is not going down. Their prevention services aren't working. Will the minister, on his way out the door to spend more time with his family, do one thing — one thing? Will he do one thing to help children in this prov- ince?

They need his help, and they're not getting it now. Will he go to the Premier and say that enough is enough? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. T. Christensen: This is a budget that will allow this ministry to continue to increase resources to chil- dren and families.

We have allocated $47 million — an additional $47 million — over the next three years for supporting families and children in care, including the foster parent rate increase. it's a budget that allows for an additional $38 million over the next three years to support children with spe- cial needs, consistent with what we have been doing to increase the number of children with special needs who are receiving services. i can assure this member that i will be doing every- thing i can to ensure that children and families in this province have a bright future by ensuring that those members never form government. [1400] M.

Karagianis: The minister's own report shows that current funding levels are not keeping up with the need. i'm going to read the opening lines of this report, the very first statement: "o verall costs and costs per case of children-in-care expenditures are increasing at rates beyond inflation and beyond the ministry's capacity to continue to fund within existing budgets. o ver the last three years, expenditures for children in care have gone up significantly," it says. The report forecasts an addi- tional 11.2 percent increase in this year alone.

What does the minister do? h e signs off on a budget that will cut existing supports, a budget that will make things worse for those children in care. My question to the minister is very simple: what happened to this government's commitment to protect children? is this his version of how to protect them — cuts to existing programs and services? Hon. T. Christensen: The member is wrong.

This budget allows for $47 million in additional dollars to support families and children in care. in fact the min- istry's budget plan expressly recognizes that there are cost pressures to support children in care, and that's why we're adding $47 million over the next three years. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: This sham budget that the govern- ment continues to try and shove down our throats here is a failure. This report confirms it, as do the cuts that are apparent in this budget.

This government has failed over and over again to learn from the mistakes of the past, and it is continuing neglect of these children. They are going exactly against what they said was their priority. in fact, what it has taken is a leaked document for us to see the real facts here, and this is information that the public deserves to know. Y et this government has continued to hide this information from us. Will the government please stop playing fast and loose with the children in care in this province, and when will they start living up to their promises to protect the chil- dren in their care? Hon. T.

Christensen: e ach and every day in the province of british c olumbia thousands of front-line social workers do exactly that. They protect vulnerable children and families across the province. That's why this government has added 300 front-line positions over the last few years. That's why this government continues to recruit, to fill vacancies of our front-line social work- ers so that we can be confident that we have the people on the ground to ensure that we are serving british c olumbia's most vulnerable children. acce SS to Mini Str Y re Port bY reP reS entatiVe For chil Dren an D Youth A.

Dix: During the minister's little statement, which was so well applauded by his colleagues, he forgot to mention that this h ouse voted unanimously a couple of years ago to reinstate an independent children's repre- sentative in british c olumbia.

This report that we've been talking about today, Child in Care Cost Driver Analysis, which details chaos in the ministry, details inadequate services — which is the kind of information the minister gets but that the people of british c olumbia have hidden from them. it's the kind of information, surely, the child representative should have. i want to ask the minister whether this report, which details specifically the chaos in his ministry, was shared with the r epresentative for c hildren and Y outh. [1405] Hon. T. Christensen: i don't know what the mem- bers opposite don't get about the budget.

The budget is increasing resources to the Ministry of c hildren and

british c olumbia Debates13944 t uesday, February 24, 2009 Family Development. The ministry reviews a host of documentation and projections. We consult with our regions around the pressures…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Member, just take your seat for a second. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. T. Christensen: We consult with regions about the pressures within the regions in serving children and families. That is why our budget will allow for an addi- tional $47 million to be spent over the next three years to support families and children in care. That is responsive government to the challenges at hand. Mr.

Speaker: Member has a supplemental. A. Dix: This h ouse created an independent child representative after the Premier broke his word and got rid of the last independent children's commissioner. For that office to work, they have to have access to information. The question is very simple. The minister has access to this document. it details the chaos in his ministry and the consequence of that chaos for children in british c olumbia. My question to the minister is very simple. Did he cover it up or not? Did he share it or not?

Was the r epresentative for c hildren and Y outh given access to this document, which details the chaos in his ministry? Hon. T. Christensen: if the opposition has a docu- ment that they believe the representative should review, then they should provide it to the representative to review it. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. T.

Christensen: there is a range of docu- ments and projections that are prepared for the ministry and that the ministry reviews when we're preparing our budget submissions. t his budget reflects an increase to the Ministry of c hildren and Family Development. it allows for additional spending for children in care and for children and youth with special needs over the next three years.

That will help to ensure that this government is meeting the needs of those vulnerable children across our province — 40 percent more spend- ing today than there was when we became government, thousands more children being served than there were ten years…. i'm happy to put this government's record of increas- ing services up against the government when that member was in the back rooms ten years ago. M. Farnworth: The minister's cavalier answer to the question of whether or not the children's representative had the report is indicative of the problem. i'd like to quote for the minister.

Section 10…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue. M. Farnworth: i'd like to quote for the minister

section 10 of the legislation, bill 34. it says: "The repre- sentative has the right to any information that…is necessary to enable the representative to exercise his or her powers or perform his or her functions or duties under this a ct." My question. This important information on the protection of children: did the minister share it with the r epresentative for c hildren or not? a nd if not, why not? Hon. T. Christensen: the ministry meets with the representative and officials from her office on a regular basis.

We have shared literally thousands of pages of information with the representative since that office was established, and we will continue to do that. We are working to develop a constructive information- sharing relationship so that the representative is able to do her job most effectively and the ministry is able to continue to do its job most effectively. [1410] Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: Well, it's pretty clear the answer to the question is no, and the minister just doesn't want to admit it.

So my question to the minister is this: did he read the report? a nd if he did read the report, why did he clearly take the deliberate decision not to share it with the children's representative? Hon. T. Christensen: i can assure this member and this h ouse that i read hundreds of pages of reports and documents in preparation for this year's budget.

That is why this year's budget increases funding to the Ministry of c hildren and Family Development. it is why we have added $47 million over the term of this service plan to support families and children in care. it's why we're adding $38 million to support children with special needs. it's why we're adding millions of other dollars to ensure that vulnerable children across

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13945 our province receive the services that they require. We will continue to ensure that we put in place the right front-line people to ensure that those services are delivered. li Quor ta X increa Se B. Ralston: The budget tabled last week artificially pumps up revenue numbers, but those numbers are contradicted by what's going on in the real economy. it's also clear that the Minister of Finance has found another way to pump up revenues, and that's through stealth tax increases.

Will the Minister of Finance con- firm that increased taxes on liquor are just one of the ways he plans to gouge british c olumbians in the year to come? Hon. R. Coleman: Y ou might want to stop with the reckless and irresponsible comments you just made with regards to how we handle liquor in the province of british c olumbia. The fact of the matter is this, Member…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R.

Coleman: if the member doesn't want to hear the facts about the raising of the floor price on hard liquor in the province of british c olumbia, which have been sent out to over 200 people in the province to notify them, and how that process has been done for the last generation, he might want to go back to the 1990s when he raised the floor price of liquor four times and used exactly the same process that we used on this announcement. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. B.

Ralston: The new liquor tax comes on top of a tripling of the gas tax, hikes to hydro rates, increased MSP premiums and the highest transit fares in the country. interjections. Mr. Speaker: c ontinue, Member. B. Ralston: Will the Minister of Finance confirm that he plans many more ways to gouge british c olumbians in the year to come? Hon. R. Coleman: it's not only an irresponsible com- ment coming from the member opposite, but completely uninformed.

This is a raise to the floor price for hard liquor in liquor stores in the province of british c olumbia. a nnual adjustments to minimum beverage alcohol prices was a core recommendation of c anada's national alcohol strategy that was endorsed by governments over the years with regards to the floor price of alco- hol, particularly hard liquor, in jurisdictions across the country. This is a standard practice. Y ou did it in the 1990s. We've done it a few times in the 2000s. The fact of the matter is, though, hon.

Member, it has been done exactly the same way every time, exactly the same way to inform. it is actually the floor price. it doesn't change the price more than setting the floor price of alcohol, and there is not taxation in addition to any of that. [1415] buDGet re Venue Pro JectionS R.

Fleming: The Finance Minister staked the cred- ibility of his budget on a number of doubtful revenue projections. h e projects sales taxes to go up, when economists report b.c. retail sales are "in full-blown retreat," and last week the minister brushed off ques- tions that we had about how he forecast an increase in personal income tax revenue for the province when employment levels were dropping. t oday we learned that as of December, b.c . had the distinction of having the largest increase in unemployment claims in the country.

My question to the minister is: will he commit to presenting credible revenue forecasts to british c olumbians, or is he still asking us to think beyond the numbers and believe his budget? Hon. C. Hansen: The member is, quite frankly, wrong. We don't build a budget with a rearview mirror. We don't build next year's budget for the year starting a pril 1 based on statistics and data from last December. We base it on the expert forecast for the economy and for growth in the economy for the year to come, starting on a pril 1. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. R.

Fleming: Y ou know, it was exactly while the minis- ter was preparing his budget that b.c . saw a net increase of 50,000 unemployment claims — a 33 percent increase on the year before. This is a Statistics c anada report. it shows b.c . is the number one job loss province in c anada. More people in b.c. are applying for unemploy- ment benefits here than in o ntario, the site of the auto and manufacturing meltdown. So how can the minister, at a time when people are worrying about putting food on their table, forecast personal income tax growth in his budget, with this troubling employment backdrop?

british c olumbia Debates13946 t uesday, February 24, 2009 Hon. C. Hansen: This is a province that since 2001 has seen a net increase of almost 400,000 jobs in this econ- omy. We know that the b.c . economy is going to…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Sit down for a second. We're going to listen to the question, and we're going to listen to the answer. c ontinue. Hon. C.

Hansen: british c olumbia continues to attract workers. u nlike the late 1990s, when 50,000 young british c olumbians fled this province to go to other provinces to finds jobs, those british c olumbians are coming back to b.c. because there is opportunity here once again. i'll tell the member something that they clearly didn't recognize in the late 1990s. When people leave british c olumbia to go to work in other provinces, they pay income tax in other provinces.

When british c olumbians, people from around the world and other c anadians come to find jobs in british c olumbia, they pay income tax in british c olumbia, and that's what helps pay for our health care, our education and our social safety net. DiScloS ure o F Docu Ment S in b.c . rail court ca Se L. Krog: t omorrow Madam Justice bennett of the b.c. Supreme c ourt will hear an application by the offi- cial opposition to be given access to binders of material related to the b.c. r ail scandal. The a ttorney General has repeatedly said he is committed to openness and accountability.

Does he or does he not support the public's right to know the truth about the b.c. r ail cor- ruption trial? Hon. W . Oppal: i think that Madam Justice bennett can make her decision without the assistance of anyone in this chamber. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. L.

Krog: What would be of assistance to Madam Justice bennett would be if the government would cooperate by releasing all of the information that the public of british c olumbia has a right to know. [1420] i would remind the a ttorney General that his gov- ernment goes before the public of british c olumbia on May 12 for the ultimate vote of confidence, the ultim- ate truth-finding expedition, and i would encourage him strongly to encourage the government's lawyers to hand over the documents so that the people of british c olumbia know what the truth is behind the b.c . r ail corruption trial. it's been over five long years since this l egislature was raided.

The people have a right to know. a gain i'm asking the a ttorney General: does he support the right of the people to know, or doesn't he? Hon. W . Oppal: it's apparent to me that…. When that member went to law school, he apparently missed the lecture that dealt with the doctrine of separation of powers. That is that during the course of any trial it is totally improper for legislators to comment on what's going on in a courtroom. [end of question period.] S. Fraser: i rise today to raise a point of privilege. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Point of Privilege S.

Fraser: i served notice yesterday of my intention to raise a question of privilege, and i rise now on that matter, of which written notice has been given to the c hair under Standing order 26. i believe that i can establish a prima facie case on the face of the record that the member for n anaimo- Parksville breached the privileges of this h ouse by misleading this assembly. i have attempted to keep my presentation brief and non-argumentative, in accord- ance with the rules.

The member for n anaimo-Parksville has made state- ments in this h ouse on the subject of logging in the englishman r iver. on Thursday last week in question period the member told the h ouse: "This was logged under a plan, a watershed management plan, that involved consultation with the a rrowsmith Watersheds Society and other groups." i would like to submit as exhibit 1 an e-mail from Michael Jessen of the a rrowsmith Watersheds c oalition Society which takes issue with this state- ment by the member. Mr.

Jessen's e-mail states: "We assure you that we have never collaborated with i sland t imberlands or its predecessors in the preparation of any watershed plan, nor have we reviewed or approved any timber-harvesting plans for any private managed forest land company." Y esterday when i gave the member the opportunity to correct the record and to apologize to the organization he named, the member for n anaimo-Parksville instead stated: "i want to say to the a rrowsmith Watersheds

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13947 c oalition Society that i used the wrong acronym, a Wc S. i should have said the a rrowsmith Water Service, which is comprised of representatives from Parksville, from Qualicum beach and from the regional district, who indeed took

part in the watershed assess- ment portfolio plan to protect the watershed in this sensitive area." This explanation by the member is in turn countered by a second document i submit as exhibit 2: a press release from the Western c anada Wilderness society quoting barry a vis, who sits on the a rrowsmith Water Service, regarding logging in the englishman r iver. in this document Mr. a vis of the a rrowsmith Water Service states: "if there was ever a time to speak up, it is the present day.

What is happening here exposes almost all that is wrong with forestry policies, watershed protection policies, ripar - ian areas, proper stewardship, ownership conflicts, potential health risks, local financial waste and as well as many, many volunteer hours and financial donations from the stewardship groups and land trusts over the past 25 years — just wasted now." i respectfully submit, based on these exhibits, that the community organizations cited by the member were not consulted and did not agree to the plans, as asserted in this h ouse by the member for n anaimo-Parksville.

The member also made claims that only 21 of 228 merchantable trees were removed from the site. " it was a selective harvest by helicopter," it was quoted. " o nly two trees actually hit the ground," it was quoted.

The Western c anada Wilderness c ommittee did a complete inventory of the logging site, and their inventory shows that 47 trees were cut down and 22 were taken away. a nother 25 were left behind, including trees that were between 150 and 500 years old. [1425] i submit these documents of the site as exhibit 3 and will table these along with all the other documents i have cited and the relevant excerpts from Hansard. From the documents i have tabled today, i believe that i have made a prima facie case of breach of privil- ege. i am prepared, Mr.

Speaker, to move the necessary motion should you find a prima facie case exists. Hon. M. de Jong: i'll reserve the right to provide a more fulsome response shortly. Mr. Speaker: i'll take it under advisement. Tabling Documents Hon. C. Hansen: i rise to table a revised

schedule i for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009. The revised

schedule i reflects the changes to the ministerial account- abilities under the balanced budget and Ministerial a ccountability a ct, resulting from the government min- istry reorganizations that took place in 2008-2009. Motions Without Notice Me Mber Shi P o F Select Stan Din G anD SP ecial co MMitteeS Hon. M. de Jong: by leave, i move the following. Just by way of explanation for members of the c ommittee of Selection, these are the names that are being proposed for the committees.

The o pposition h ouse l eader and myself are advised that this abbreviated procedure can be safely utilized in this case. by leave, i move: [That the following Members comprise the membership of the Select Standing c ommittees of the l egislative a ssembly for the 5th session of the 38th Parliament: Select Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs k atherine Whittred ( c onvener), a l h orning, Dennis Mac k ay, c laude r ichmond, V al r oddick, John l es, David c hudnovsky, Gary c oons, Scott Fraser, harry l ali Select Standing Committee on Children and Y outh c laude r ichmond (c onvener), Dennis Mack ay, Val r oddick, John r ustad, r ichard t . l ee, John l es, n icholas Simons, Jagrup brar, Maurine karagianis, l eonard krog Select Standing Committee on Crown Corporations John r ustad (c onvener), o lga ilich, Dennis Mack ay, John Y ap, V al r oddick, r ick Thorpe, John h organ, c orky evans, h arry l ali, Shane Simpson Select Standing Committee on Education John n uraney (c onvener), Daniel Jarvis, r ichard t . l ee, r ick Thorpe, John r ustad, John Y ap, David c ubberley, r ob Fleming, n orm Macdonald, Doug r outley Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services r andy h awes (c onvener), h arry bloy, Dave S. h ayer, r ichard t . l ee, John r ustad, John Y ap, bruce r alston, r obin a ustin, John h organ, Diane Thorne Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts r ob Fleming (c onvener), r ick Thorpe, r andy h awes, John Y ap, c laude r ichmond, o lga ilich, John r ustad, r alph Sultan, h arry bains, bob Simpson, bruce r alston, c laire t revena] l eave granted.

Motion approved. D. Routley: i seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions D. Routley: This is a petition signed by 931 residents of the island of Gabriola. They're seeking to have the government freeze b.c. ferry fares. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: i call c ommittee of Supply — for the information of members, continued debate on the

british c olumbia Debates13948 t uesday, February 24, 2009 supplementary estimates, h ousing. a nd then, i believe, we are dealing with the h ealth supplementary estimate. Committee of Supply Su PPle Mentar Y e Sti Mate S: Mini Str Y o F hou Sin G anD Social De Velo PMent (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of Supply; k. Whittred in the chair. The committee met at 2:30 p.m. on Vote 36(S): housing and construction standards, $30,000,000 (continued). D.

Chudnovsky: Good afternoon to the minister and members of staff. i have, actually, three areas that i want to ask questions about. i wouldn't expect that they would take very long, but we'll see. i apologize in advance if this has been canvassed. i don't think so. it's to do with the buildings that have been purchased over the last couple of years by government, especially Sro buildings in Vancouver — but open to hearing about others as well. The question has to do with renovations and the

schedule for renovations. i know that my colleague from Vancouver–Mount Pleasant talked earlier in the day with the minister about financing around these buildings. i wanted to specific- ally deal with the renovation schedule. a gain, if it's been canvassed, i apologize. c ould the minister deal with the first buildings that were announced as purchased and give us a sense of the renovation

schedule — where we are at with respect to those buildings being ready for people to live in them? Hon. R. Coleman: i'll try. i'll go through each par - ticular property, and maybe this can help the member. The total in renovations we are investing in these build- ings, by the way, is $90 million. i don't have in front of me those numbers broken out by building on what the renovations are costing. The Marble a rch is underway. a nticipated comple- tion is February 2010. We're doing it in a phased way to give residents the ability to stay in the building and move around.

The St. h elen's h otel is underway. it will be completed in n ovember 2009. The Walton h otel is underway. That's June 2009. The orange h all is under - way. That's March 2009. The carl r ooms is a pril 2009. The Molson's bank building is late 2009, possibly early 2010, due to some renovations and obviously moving people in and around as we do the renovations. The Park h otel is May. The o rwell h otel is December. The Savoy was January, so it has been completed. The rice block is March. D. Chudnovsky: Those were the ones from the first set of purchases. Thanks to the minister for that.

Does the minister know whether any of the costs of those renovations might be captured by the recent announce- ments regarding renovations in the federal budget? [1435] Hon. R. Coleman: We did canvass this earlier, but i'll repeat it. The renovations they have allowed so far in the federal funding are only to do with projects that were provincial and federal buildings that we had some joint relationship in. So it probably goes back to pre-1990. a nything that was done by a province unilaterally at this point doesn't qualify.

We are in discussions with the federal government with regards to that. but in what they presented to us at the initial stage, only the buildings that would have been in the provincial-federal relationship in the past would be qualifying buildings. So at this stage, no. The dollars to do this are already in our budget. D. Chudnovsky: Thanks to the minister for that.

The second area i wanted to talk about or ask about has to do with the criteria that the ministry uses in the potential purchase of buildings. i guess the best way to ask would be to say: is it ever contemplated by the ministry, in looking at possible purchases, that family accommodation buildings might be purchased? Hon. R. Coleman: in one purchase we made as we came through it, we did purchase the a lpha and beta projects in burnaby, which were family. but it isn't our priority criterion, to be honest with you.

The priority criterion is units for people who are at risk of homelessness, homeless with mental health and addictions, with supports as a criterion. Most people who are families today can be accommodated in the rental market now. With the rental assistance program, we have 8,000 families that make under $35,000 a year receiving a cheque every month to offset their rent. D.

Chudnovsky: if i could just investigate this a little bit more. i was aware of one project that fit that category. i'm wondering if the minister might explain to the com- mittee why that particular project was proceeded with, given his statement about what the priorities are. Hon. R. Coleman: a t the time they were purchased, which was in the first tranche of purchases, they were at risk of leaving the marketplace, and we had some capital available.

That's about the simplest answer i can give. i do have the letter from the member opposite dated December 11, where he asked if we would consider purchasing two buildings in Vancouver. a s we came through our capital with regards to these purchases, the capital went only so far. We focused on our priorities

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13949 when we came to the buildings with regards to this latest purchase. [1440] D. Chudnovsky: i will just press this question for a minute. i'm not going to take too much time of the commit- tee except to say this.

Without reference to any particular address or particular building, it seems to me that the chal- lenge faced in finding affordable housing, and therefore reducing the risk of homelessness, is a great one for families in our community, where i live. it's a serious problem. i would suggest to the minister that the situation that's faced by many, many families in our community and in many communities across the province, in what is relatively affordable market housing which is dis- appearing because of development pressures — maybe a reduced speed at which it disappears, but it certainly is disappearing because of development pressures — is completely and totally analogous to the problems faced by those who live in some of the buildings that the min- istry has chosen to purchase.

So what we have is relatively affordable housing stock — and i use the term "relatively" advisedly — in build- ings which are in not great shape and which, if there is no intercession by the government or somebody, come off the market, are renovated or are knocked down and replaced with housing that is unaffordable to the resi- dents of those buildings. n ow, that is the case in many of the projects which the ministry proceeded with and purchased S ro s. it is equally the case in many situations where people are in family housing. i would impress upon the minister and suggest to the minister that the criteria that are used by the ministry in making these decisions could be usefully expanded to include relatively affordable market hous- ing, which is disappearing and which is available now to families and will not be when those places are purchased speculatively, knocked down and replaced with market housing that isn't affordable to those families. i leave it with the minister. h e, for now, is the guy who gets to make the decisions. i think these are families who i'm referring to who are working families, who are in a situation where they're desperately in need of housing.

The criteria, it seems to me, could be usefully expanded to include them. My third question. i wonder whether the minis- ter could give us an update on the situation at l ittle Mountain social housing. Hon. R. Coleman: First of all, on the first issue. The member added to my list for discussions, with the member opposite earlier, the people who might refer buildings that should be purchased in communities — to add Mla s to that list. The member asked us to buy two properties in Vancouver. When the member was asking me what were our criteria…. We hear from all kinds of people.

There are some changing times out there with regards to rentals in b.c. right now. a s the Minister r esponsible for h ousing for the last four years, i would say that in the first three years i never got a call from anybody in the development community or anybody else who said they'd like to build some purpose-built rental housing and what programs might exist for rent assistance for tenants. in the last 90 days we've had a lot of calls. i guess people have realized that they're not going to be able to retail these things the same, and they're starting to look at purpose- built rental housing, which is actually good news for us. but there still is one issue that i think needs to be settled with regards to rental housing in this country.

This isn't unusual, and i think we all have advocated for it over the last 15 or 20 years in british c olumbia. [1445] That is, we'd like to see some tax incentives to actually get people to build affordable rental housing again in our marketplaces — like the Murb program back in the late '70s and early '80s, which was the last time we built a lot of purpose-built rental housing. i remember doing debates in opposition and having a discussion with the member for Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain, which i guess is the riding now. interjection. Hon. R.

Coleman: c oquitlam–b urke Mountain. a nyway, i had a conversation back then. i thought that unless we dealt with this as a country, we would end up with a rental crisis in the future, and i think he agreed at that time. i know that they were having discussions with the federal government back at that time, which would have been about 1996 or '97. With regards to l ittle Mountain, we do have a contract and purchase of sale.

We have an Mou with the city of Vancouver with regards to the proceeds being invested in housing — quite a substantial amount of the proceeds being invested in the city of Vancouver and other sites — as well as the replacement of the actual units on the site and a contract that dictates what that price will be for pricing going forward. o ur objective is to give the developer vacant posses- sion. h owever, they think that they may be able to phase some of the site now, so there are some discussions going on with regards to that. i can't tell the member the exact number. i think it's about 15 residents still left on the site in that number, out of 224, but at this stage the one person who has that answer isn't with me today. i'm actually happy to give, at any time, the member an update on the project.

D. Chudnovsky: i'm wondering whether the minister is aware that the company with whom the M ou has been entered into has just announced the cancellation, mid-project, of a huge project in downtown Vancouver

british c olumbia Debates13950 t uesday, February 24, 2009 and, if he is aware of that, whether that is of concern to him with respect to moving forward on the l ittle Mountain project. Hon. R. Coleman: We are aware of that. We haven't been given any indication by the proponent that this affects this site. a t the same time, we have a substantial non-refundable deposit, so we are not uncomfortable with the deal we're in. if it were to have difficulties in the future, this would actually be a very good time to con- tinue on with the rezoning to get the site ready for when the market might shift.

We would continue on with the process one way or the other. D. Chudnovsky: i admire the minister's confidence. h e may be the only one in n orth a merica who has that confidence, but it's admirable nonetheless. With respect to the project as it is proceeding right now, the minister made a comment about the ability of some- body to move ahead with something, notwithstanding the fact that there are still residents on the site. i probably didn't pick up what i should have in his answer. it's not clear to me who we are talking about, in terms of moving forward while there are still residents on site.

Who is he talking about in terms of that moving forward — the developer, the city, b.c . h ousing? Who would it be, or what entity would it be, that would be moving forward, notwithstanding that there are still people on site? Hon. R. Coleman: That's done in cooperation between us and the parties i mentioned, but the ultim- ate decision-maker is b.c. h ousing because it's our site. Just for the members opposite, i was very close. Some 14 of the 224 units remain occupied, and everybody else has been occupied to another residence of some sort and has been paid their moving costs.

They're told that they'll be paid their costs moving back in and that they get first priority to move back into the site when the site is done.

Maybe i could clarify for the member what i said about being optimistic. i didn't say i was optimistic about the marketing opportunity. [1450] h owever, having been around the business, i do know that if you have property during a downturn, the smart thing to do is continue to rezone and get your densities and your design and all that ready so that when the market does shift, you're actually somebody that can go into the market and take advantage of that market in the future, rather than sitting on a piece of property and then, as the market changes, missing the first 18 to 24 months of that market. o ur planning time line on this works either way.

D. Chudnovsky: it's to the planning time line that i wanted to turn. i think we're both going in the same direction. The Mou between the city and the province on this project, which the minister and i have had an opportunity to talk about in the past, indicates that no construction on the site will begin until at least the spring of 2010. That's pretty clear, given that we're in February of 2009 and that there is no indication at this point — despite the minister's optimism or realism or practicality or whatever adjective we want to put there….

What we have at l ittle Mountain is 200 empty places to live while there are thousands of people with nowhere to live. That's a strategy and a decision that the ministry and b.c. h ousing took, and we've had other argu- ments about that. Forget about the arguments for now. The arguments — let's set them aside. We'll have them another time. There are 200 empty places that are boarded up. There are thousands of people with nowhere to live. What's the time line expected by the minister at this point in terms of when people will be able to live on the site? Hon. R.

Coleman: i didn't realize we were going to get into a lengthy debate on this today. o therwise i would have had different staff here. r egardless, the vacant units today are not habitable. They have lead paint. The buildings have asbestos. There are some issues with environmental stuff. We've started to do something on some of the vacant units to start to get them ready for demolition. They're not habitable. The plan all along was to do this over a timed pro- cess. The objective at the beginning — and it still is the objective — is that our 224 residents be taken care of, which they are being.

The objective was to then take this property and use it as a long-term asset to enhance the ability to do more for homelessness, mental health and addictions and housing in the city and in other jurisdic- tions across b.c., as well as get back the same number of units net for the residents to move back into if they wish to when it's done. The project's time line is that we would like to get the demolition permits soon and start to demolish the buildings that we can to start to remediate the site and get the site ready for future development. D.

Chudnovsky: Thanks to the minister. a gain, i want to acknowledge to the minister that he may not have expected this line of questioning on this project, and i understand that there are not staff people here who might be able to talk about the details of this pro- ject. i acknowledge that, and i'm not looking to get into a whole series of debates that we might otherwise get into, because the minister and i see this quite differently. We could get into a debate about whether the places are habitable or not habitable at the moment.

My question is a simple one, and it isn't about "was it a smart plan?" i think it wasn't. h e thinks it was. a re

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13951 they habitable? i think that with very little investment, they could be very habitable within days. h e thinks i'm wrong. That's a debate for another time and another place, and you can bet we'll have it. The question is: what's his best guess as to when people will get to live on this site again, beyond the 14 or 15 fam- ilies who are still there? When is the best guess? These places have been empty for months, some of them more than a year. There are empty places there.

There's a big hunk of land in the middle of Vancouver where people could live. l ots of people are homeless. What's his best guess as to when people will actually get to live there? Hon. R. Coleman: i'm not in a position to give you that answer at this moment, because i don't have the information in front of me. So i will be glad to get the information for the member — happily get the infor - mation for the member. The member knows what the Mou states and what goes on there.

The member also knows that significant investment will go into housing in the city of Vancouver as a result of the site, in addition to the hundreds of millions we've already spent in the last three years. [1455] We think it's important to take sites that are underutil- ized, to maximize them, to take the money out of them, to replace old housing stock — this stuff is well over 50 years old and is basically obsolete — and be able to enhance and add additional stock elsewhere across the province by leveraging our assets. So we think that's an important piece of l ittle Mountain.

The member and i have had debates on this when he was the critic in last year's esti- mates. l ike i say, i'm happy to get you an update. D. Chudnovsky: n ot to ask another question, because i know my friend from k ingsway wants to get up and ask some questions. Just to say thank you to the minister for his offer. i would very much like to have an update on the l ittle Mountain situation as quickly as possible, and we'll be in touch right away with the minister's office to try and organize that. J. Kwan: Y es indeed, we'll perhaps combine that with the other briefings.

Just on that note, the minister did mention, though, a potential default. Should h olborn default on the l ittle Mountain project, the minister mentioned that there would be a substantial amount which they would be penalized against for the default. if that should happen, would that penalty which the province would receive be applied towards the building of social housing? Hon. R. Coleman: Y eah, i would think so. n ot to get into the commercial piece of this arrangement because it's obviously got some confidentiality around it. a ll i said was there was a substantial non-refundable deposit.

There are deposits that go up at different levels of the process of the development, which is pretty standard on a development this size. o bviously, if there was money that came back because of a default…. i don't want to get into a discussion pre- cluding that decision, because i think that would be unfair to all the parties involved, or lead anybody to believe that i have anything in front of me today that says we do have that difficulty. but if there was a default, that money would be reinvested in housing. J.

Kwan: Then on that note, is it the anticipation that the minister is then waiting for the developer to act? or is there a drop-dead time line to which the government says: "enough already. We've waited and waited and waited, and there is no action. it's time to move on"? is there a clause that will trigger either the automatic default of the developer or the progress of the project? Hon. R. Coleman: There are some specific dates that have performance dates that are subject to the confi- dentiality clause of the entire commercial arrangement. but they are there.

They are monitored by our staff. o ur staff do meet with the proponent on a regular basis and will shortly be meeting with their new president and ceo who has just been appointed. We will probably have some other ideas with regards to where they fit within the dates that are required under the commercial arrangement at that time. J. Kwan: i'm really going to look forward to the brief- ing with the minister, actually. a t around c hristmastime, i think, i had a telephone conversation with the minister, at which point the minister did offer a briefing on this with me directly.

Then it fell apart. i think the minister went to n ew Y ork or something. a nyway, one thing led to another. t ime marched on, and the briefing didn't take place. i would certainly be interested in following up with that and hopefully shed more light on some of the developments or lack thereof with regards to this site. a gain, i think the interest here is to see the project develop in such a way that meets the community's need and is in the best interests of british c olumbians in pro- viding affordable housing.

So in that spirit, i'm looking forward to that conversation and discussion with both the minister and his staff. [1500] i know that my colleague the member for Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast has got some questions for the minister, so i'm going to yield the floor to him for a few minutes before i get back to other questions on this set of estimates. N. Simons: i thank the minister for being here and available with his staff to answer questions. My questions

british c olumbia Debates13952 t uesday, February 24, 2009 are simple — about a couple of projects, in particular in Sechelt. These are the Green c ourt project and the a rrowhead project. i'm wondering if the minister might be able to let me know what the status of those projects is. i believe that they're waiting for some sort of notifica- tion to proceed or not. a ny information would be most appreciated. Hon. R. Coleman: There are some projects that have come across my desk, but i couldn't give you the status off the top of my head.

My staff don't have that informa- tion available like i did for the other members of your caucus. i undertook to get you an update on the projects. before we do that, though, could you restate the names of the project for me? The first one i didn't quite catch. For the member's information, on the Sunshine c oast there are today 265 units of existing subsidized housing. There are 79 seniors that actually get SaFer , which is Shelter a id for e lderly r enters.

There are 56 people in the rental assistance program on the Sunshine c oast, which gives them a cheque every month to offset their rent if they make under $35,000 a year and they have a family. That's an annual subsidy on the Sunshine c oast of $1.2 million a year. if you would restate those, we will write them down, and then we can…. N. Simons: one was the l ions c lub project with respect to a building project called Green c ourt. They were going to be removing some affordable housing and replacing it with other…. because it was old, and it needed replacement.

The other one was the use of the old rcMP building partially for affordable housing. That was called a rrowhead. if that doesn't satisfy the minister, i'll make sure that i get the names exactly right so that the projects can be identified. i can come and speak to the minister at another time. Hon. R. Coleman: That should be enough. if it isn't, i'll give the member a call. There is another project that i do know that's in that area that isn't…to either one of those. it's an innovative project that's taking place. i think it's with disabilities. i think the member is aware of that project.

That's why i needed a name. So now we'll have our guys get that information for you. J. Kwan: in the supplemental estimates there's a phrase that says "long-term renovations are in the plan- ning stages." c ould the minister explain to me what that means? is the $30 million in this set of estimates going to be applying to long-term renovations, and what are the planning stages that we are talking about here? Hon. R. Coleman: e ach one is different, of course. The most extensive renovations are expected to be at the Dominion h otel. it could take a year to complete the extensive renovations.

The others — some of them — might be able to be done in a couple of months because they're more health and safety. one of the challenges about saying that and then fixing a firm date is that some of the challenges we found as we did some of the buildings in the past….

For instance, i was in the vice-president of development's office at b.c. h ousing recently, and he showed me a very large beam, a piece of a very large beam. [1505] The beam was actually in this building for, oh, probably the last ten or 15 years. it was actually a structural beam, and the entire inside of the beam was hollow because it had rotted. it was something we visually couldn't have seen when we did the renovations. So the one thing we do find is….

Sometimes we'll find things that will take more, but our initial assessment of these buildings would be anywhere from two months to one year that the total renovation is done. The most extensive one is the Dominion. J. Kwan: Presumably, all of the renovation cost would be covered by this $30 million? The minister said there is $3 million out of that $30 million that's allocated for renovations. So is the anticipation that all of those renovation costs should be covered under this set of supplementary estimates? Hon. R.

Coleman: Y es, and there's a healthy con- tingency, as well, for what i just described as might be unusual circumstances. J. Kwan: Would the tenants be entitled to apply for the rent supplement program that the minister has in place — for the rent? Hon. R. Coleman: n ot in these buildings — the reason being that these are subsidized buildings. We subsidize to income on these. Most of the tenants in these would be people that would not have families, that would be single. They would be receiving the shelter allowance under social assistance, which would be their rent.

We subsidize the difference to balance off the cost of the operation of the building, including the supports and all the costs, etc. So not typically in this situation, because we wouldn't typically have a family. The rent assistance program is geared to people that are in the marketplace. This is a subsidized building. We don't have rent assistance, for instance, in social housing projects either, because as the member remem- bers, that's 30 percent of income, rent geared to income. So they pay rent based on their income, so the subsidy is different because we subsidize the entire project versus the individual.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13953 J. Kwan: The rent supplement program is signifi- cantly undersubscribed. The government has put out ads in the newspapers and so on urging people to utilize the program. h aving said that, it is still hugely undersubscribed. n ow, i've learned of some situations whereby people who are on income assistance could actually get access to this rent supplement program. is that the case? Hon. R. Coleman: The rent assistance program is people that are low income, working — you know, out there working.

People on social assistance, depending on where they're living — whether they're in social housing or elsewhere — get a piece of their social assist- ance cheque that is a shelter allowance. So no, they don't qualify for rent assistance. We do, however, have one exception to that. We do have $1,100 in rent assistance available for people if we need to take them from a shelter to the market because we don't have a place available in one of our buildings. J.

Kwan: Just so that i'm clear then, for people on income assistance — for example, you're staying at a shelter and you cannot access a social housing unit…. if you go into the market to get a rental space, then the rent supplement would apply to top-up that family's shelter portion, even though they're on income assist- ance. That's an exception that would apply? Did i hear the minister correctly on that? [1510] Hon. R. Coleman: Y eah. Don't confuse them with the rent assistance program.

These are rent subs for people that are homeless to help them, if they can't occupy a social housing project. a year ago we announced the ability to do this in certain circumstances. i don't have the details of that program in front of me, but i'm glad to share them with the member. So what we do is if we have somebody in a shelter that we think could be housed in the normal housing market and their biggest barrier is they can't quite make it, then we can help them with their rent to get them up on their feet for a period of time so that they can be stabilized in the housing market. J.

Kwan: i'd be very interested in further exploring this with the minister, because a couple of cases have been brought to my attention where people on income assistance are accessing the rent supplement program to top-up their rent in the marketplace. i had always thought that the criteria were such that people on income assistance were not eligible to access these rent supp dollars. Maybe i've confused two pots of money, but i don't think so. So i would be interested in clarify- ing that with the minister, on that front. on a different question, i met with a group of people on several occasions now.

They call themselves the home- less nation. They live, frankly, in a park in the streets of Vancouver. They're primarily aboriginal people — aborig- inal men for the most part, although not exclusively — and they're older men. Some of them are on income assistance. Some of them are actually on a pension. The majority of them are individuals who are struggling with addiction challenges, although most not with drug addiction but rather with alcohol addiction problems. in any event, they are sleeping on the streets. They want to find a way to access housing.

They were very specific to say that they did not wish to move to the Downtown e astside, for obvious reasons. Many of them have actually recovered from drug addiction issues, and they did not wish to be in the Downtown e astside com- munity for their own personal reasons. o thers did not want to go to a shelter, for example; many of whom are residential school survivors. in fact, one of them, in that very cold spell where there was snow and so on, was actually at a shelter. a t around midnight he couldn't take it anymore.

Why? because the shelter reminded him of the residential schools, and he left. h e'd rather stay outside. it was bitter, bitter cold, but he stayed outside anyway, and he didn't go back. So they came to my office, and i also met with them at the park. They said that they would be interested in looking for alternatives in terms of securing housing. i actually phoned up the minister and talked to the min- ister's assistant at that time, because the minister was out of town, to see how we could assist this group of people.

The outreach worker came to my office to meet with them as well but to no avail, because there simply was no housing available to put them in. a t one point i was told by the minister's staff that if the outreach worker could not find housing to meet the needs of these individuals…. i explained to them about the residential school situation, the Downtown e astside geographic location challenges, and so on. i was advised that the outreach worker would be able to access funds to provide support to these individ- uals, whether it be getting a temporary option available. That was not to be. n o funding was available.

The outreach worker, when she came to my office, i asked point-blank, and she just said: "Well, who told you that, and where can i get it?" So there were no funds available. My question to the minister on that note is: this set of projects in Vancouver would not provide assistance to this group of people. What other options are there for this group of people? h ow can we provide assistance to them so that they can get out of the elements and off the streets? They don't have a mental health challenge, but they do have an addiction problem.

For very coherent, specific reasons, they have outlined for me why the existing options that are there are not options for them. What can we do for this group of people? [1515]

british c olumbia Debates13954 t uesday, February 24, 2009 Hon. R. Coleman: Thanks to the member, and i apologize if there was a meeting cancelled in December. The n ew Y ork trip was a complete surprise to the minis- ter, actually. it was a birthday present that was arranged by his spouse, my wife, and i was basically told about 24 hours ahead of time that i was going on this trip to n ew Y ork. it was fun, and we enjoyed it. if we missed a meet- ing as a result, i apologize. i do think that, for the most part, she had worked with my staff to make sure nothing was being scheduled, unbeknownst to me.

With regards to this, what the member describes fits clearly to me within what we thought about when we decided to put some supps into the homeless side for people who couldn't fit into other forms of housing. i think it would be appropriate if one of our people from b.c. h ousing, if the member would agree to make the arrangements, went to meet with these folks and go through their issues and identify them and then see if we can find the options that might work for them. That may be space in one of the new buildings we have, because we have the one at 55 e ast h astings.

Quite frankly, it's 90 units. it's coming on board. it should be on stream pretty soon, and a few others that are under construc- tion. There may be something in an existing facility that might meet for this cohort. a t the same time, if it's residential school tragedy, as we know what it was, i think we should work with prob- ably the native friendship centre and others to identify how we would do that to make sure there was something that was culturally sensitive to meet their needs, if that was the case, or if we're going to find some other place for them with other funds. i'm compelled by the member's story.

They haven't come to see me, but i'm compelled by her description. i would like to make arrangements for someone to sit down with them. J. Kwan: i'd be happy to set that up — that is, if the group is willing. They have, frankly, been very good at keeping in touch with me and coming to my office on a periodic occasion. We've kept an ongoing dialogue with each other, even though they don't actually have a fixed address. but i will endeavour to chat with them and see if we can organize something to that effect.

They have their own coherent reasons why certain options don't work for them. t o me it may not make any sense, to you it may not make any sense, but for them it makes a whole lot of sense. of course, from the perspec- tive of always trying to….

Government trying to develop programs to meet the needs of the clients rather than have the clients meet the needs of government programs ought to be the goal. if we can find some way to accommodate and to meet the needs of this group of folks who are the homeless nation people in the community, i think, again, that will only serve us well. i'd like to ask the minister some questions. i see that in this set of estimates there are no dollars allocated for anything related to the o lympic village. The o lympic village social housing project, as the minister knows, is in complete disarray, it seems to me.

They are in quite a financial situation. So i wonder whether or not the min- ister had turned his mind to this housing initiative that is meant to be a legacy of the o lympics? [1520] Hon. R. Coleman: We're not involved. There was $15 million given to V anoc by the province, i believe it was, and $15 million from the federal government to the affordable housing that was anticipated being on the o lympic village site.

We've not been involved, nor have we been asked to get involved at any level. i've had what would be called casual conversations with people in the city but not about them asking us to get involved, just to sort of see how they were doing and that sort of thing with the project.

There are issues of costs, etc., that i don't have the expertise to comment on with regards to those particular units, their square footage of construction costs and that sort of thing. i know the city is trying to work through those issues, but at this point in time the b.c. h ousing or the ministry are not involved in the o lympic village. J. Kwan: is it because the minister or the ministry has not been officially asked by the city of Vancouver? if they were to be asked by the city of Vancouver, what kind of involvement might the ministry consider? Hon. R. Coleman: We have no commitment at this point.

We have no involvement. i understand our staff from b.c. h ousing may be meeting with senior staff in Vancouver this Friday with regards to that component. it would be from our standpoint a hard look at what the costs are if we were to get involved and whether it made sense or not for the particular housing or whether the dollars were too excessive and would be better invested in social housing in the city that we're doing.

There is not a pool of capital sitting around that government is prepared to go running into the o lympic village on. i have various quotes and comments from members of the opposition who have made some fairly interesting comments with regards to it — that Vancouver shouldn't be subsidized by rural b.c., which also needs housing. Those sorts of things i have on record.

From our perspective, we have always been a collab- orative partner to try and help give advice. if the city looks for advice, our guys are pretty good at assessing a project and giving them advice. i think that's the only level that we could commit to at this stage of the game. We just don't know enough of the details to make any other comment.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13955 J. Kwan: i think those quotes were in the context of the market portion of the project. The minister will recall that we were recalled back into this l egislature for a spe- cial sitting of the h ouse, where legislation was brought in to bail out, quite frankly, the developer Millennium.

People were asked to provide, essentially, a blank cheque so that the city could deal with the bad deal that was established by the previous council under the leader- ship of Sam Sullivan. i think those comments were put into the context of that situation. i stand corrected, but that certainly is my recollection with respect to that. a gain, perhaps that's another discussion that we can have, too, with the o lympic village and the general o lympic legacy on the social housing legacy side of things — on where we are going to be at.

The minister will recall that when the bid book was established, when the province and the city of Vancouver went out to try to get the o lympics, one of the very specific commitments was around leaving a social hous- ing legacy, a housing legacy. here's the history of it. The o lympic village site was held up to be the site to which the province and Vanoc and the levels of government could deliver on a housing legacy. What has happened? First, the council had committed a one-third, one-third, one-third mix. That is one-third market housing, one-third middle income and one-third affordable housing.

Then there was a thing called an election. The muni- cipal government changed, and then that commitment was watered down to a 20 percent, 80 percent split — 80 percent market housing, high-end condos, and then the other 20 percent on social housing. n ow another election rolls around, and we find our - selves in the situation where even that 20 percent of social housing is at risk.

Pretty soon, the way i look at it, there isn't going to be any social housing legacy arising from the o lympic village site. [1525] c ertainly, the city of Vancouver taxpayers are being asked to contribute towards this legacy only to find there's nothing to show for it except, you know, million- dollar condos. i am a city of Vancouver taxpayer, and i find it a little bit difficult to take that my tax dollars are going towards bailing out Millennium, the developer, so that they could build their million-dollar condos so that they can ensure that the return to them on the bottom line is there, and the general good of the community in terms of the social housing legacy and other amenities happens to have gone to the wayside. n ow, i fully recognize that it's a discussion that may not fit into this set of estimates, and i'm happy, again, to explore this issue with the minister or the minister's staff to see what plans there are, if any, from the govern- ment side to ensure that there is some sort of housing legacy arising from the o lympics as promised under the bid book.

So i look forward to that discussion with the minister, if he is agreeable. Hon. R. Coleman: We've not been involved in this project at all. There were funds provided through Vanoc by the provincial and federal governments towards the housing component at the o lympic village. That's our only involvement. We've never been involved in the decision-making, the planning or any of the other aspects of this particular project. it is not our intention to step in at any time and supersede the city of Vancouver.

The city has asked for a meeting to discuss this particular project. it will be very carefully looked at if something does come forward to me with regards to this and what it really means and whether it affects the ability to perform on the agenda to do projects for mental health and addictions across british c olumbia, because Vancouver is not the only community that has these issues with regards to it. We are not making any commitment at all at this time, nor have we offered up any suggestion that we're prepared to make a commitment with regards to the o lympic village issue from the provincial government.

The Chair: a s the member noted, that last question was really off the substance of the estimate, and perhaps we can move on to more relevant questioning. J. Kwan: Y es, i do fully recognize that, but seeing as the minister was so open and forthcoming with his answers, i thought i'd give it a shot anyway to try and see if we can shed some light on the latest debacle of the o lympic village site. i thank the minister for his answers. i'm about to wrap up my debate here with the minister, and i would have one last question in an area that i wonder if the minister can shed some light on for me.

This is actually a project that i heard in n ew W est. i think there was an announcement. i don't have the site location, though. i apologize to the minister. but there was an announcement that the government had made in n ew West for a housing project to be initiated. t o my recollection, i believe that was actually made at ubcM by the Premier. c ould the minister tell me if there are any housing developments that might be considered or underway in n ew West, and if so, what is the status of that? Hon. R. Coleman: if the member can get me….

There are so many projects on the go. i do know that we had some discussions at one point with regards to a brown- field site that existed in n ew Westminster. i don't know the status of that, because it would need a remediation. We did buy the c ollege Place h otel in n ew Westminster, which is for mental health and addictions and issues with regards to homelessness. That one is going through its renovation and being turned into…. [1530] i was actually at an event, an opening of a project, that was very good with regards to seniors and an integration of adult and infant and regular child day care in n ew

british c olumbia Debates13956 t uesday, February 24, 2009 Westminster a couple of weeks ago, and the mayor didn't bring up any other project to me that was specifically of interest.

So i would have thought he would have if there was a problem or difficulty. if you have the details, fine. o therwise, i'll check with our staff on anything else in n ew Westminster. i do know that if you go community by community, we have things at various levels of discussion with non-profits and municipalities and other groups with regards to things that we think we can do for housing. of course, they don't all come to fruition, because if they did, we would have to come up with billions of dol- lars on everything. e verybody's idea was the right idea. but we certainly try and work with any group that we can make something work on.

J. Kwan: i will endeavour to try and find the name of the project. i don't have those papers in front of me, and i just don't recollect it at the moment. if the minister finds anything else out in the meantime, i would appre- ciate that as well. i think that this brings the estimates to a close. i do want to say thank you to the minister for his cooper - ation and for the forthrightness of his answers and also to thank the staff for their assistance.

Vote 36(S): housing and construction standards, $30,000,000 — approved. [S. h ammell in the chair.] Su PPle Mentar Y e Sti Mate S: Mini Str Y o F health Ser Vice S on Vote 37(S): ministry operations, $120,000,000. A. Dix: Thank you to the minister and his staff. i look forward to the discussion of this estimate. The amount in question is $120 million. it's to go to the health authorities. Perhaps what i can do to start with…. The minister might want to just tell the h ouse what the $120 million is in a general sense and kind of lay out where it went and what it was being spent on. Hon. G.

Abbott: l et me introduce, on my immediate left, my deputy minister, Gord Macatee. on my right is Manjit Sidhu, who is assistant deputy minister. The $120 million was funds that we were able to bring forward to the health authorities earlier in 2008. a t that time, the economy was far more robust than it is today. a s a consequence, we had an opportunity to provide the health authorities with an incremental $120 million. The fiscal year, of course, is not over.

That runs until the end of March, so the health authorities are still util- izing that $120 million. [1535] There is a range of things that have been undertaken by the health authorities with their shares of the $120 million. e xamples would be improving wait times for diagnostics. in some cases, funds were utilized to get patients quicker access to Mri s, to cat scans, to X-rays and the like. i know that for some health authorities there was utilization of the funds to shorten wait times for surgeries. h ip and knee replacements, i guess, would be good examples of that, but just two examples of that.

For some health authorities, Vancouver c oastal notably, their portion of funds was utilized to offset budgetary pressures. So the utilization of the funds would vary by health authority, and of course, they are still in the process of utilizing those funds through to the end of March 2009. A. Dix: Just so i understand this. The minister made reference to the economy and that it was better then, but the fact is — and this is confirmed in several of the health service plans, i think in three of them — that this is one-time funding.

So it was only intended, at the time when the government made the decision to do it in July, for this to be one-time funding for operating funds. is that what i'm to understand, that different health authorities had different demands, but what the min- ister was doing here was giving them $120 million to get through this period — the period ending March 31, 2009 — but that there was never an intention for this to be a $120 million lift to the base?

So they wouldn't get it for next year — say, in the periods from a pril 1, 2009, through to March 31, 2010. in spite of the reference to the economy, am i to under- stand that this was always intended — and as it is referred to in the health service plans — to be one-time funding? Hon. G. Abbott: We always made it entirely clear that this was a one-time lift to funding. A. Dix: i just want to explore that briefly with the minister, because the kinds of things that the minister is talking about using the money for were sort of core ser - vices of the health authorities.

They were surgeries and diagnostics and seniors care — all the things that the health authority does. This is the most general of sup- plementary estimates, such that, in fact, we're fortunate here today to be able to have a wide-ranging debate on the health authorities as a result. So the minister is saying that he thinks it's the right approach to give a $120 million lift to the base for a nine-month period in 2008-2009 for operating funds but then to have that lift for operating funds disappear after that period. Does the minister think that that is normal practice or good practice? Hon. G.

Abbott: The member is certainly conversant with the pressures demographically and the chronic

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, February 24, 2009 13957 disease pressures that drive health care costs in this province.

The member has been a keen student of prov- incial politics for a long, long time. h e knows that health care budgets in this province have gone from 25 percent overall of the budget 20 years ago to 35 percent a decade ago to now about 45 percent today. a lot of that growth, and a lot of the demand that drives that growth, is linked very closely to the demo- graphics of our society. a decade ago about 8 percent of the population was over the age of 65. t oday it is about 14 percent, and about ten years from now it will be well over 20 percent and approaching 25 percent. So we know that each a

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0224pm-10
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0224pm 10
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	bbb3fd8f0f00bd803ad7b50d222e7a34364a14b4

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