May 14,

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLIII No. 25

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

The Chair would like to welcome to the House today, twenty

Grade VI students from Greenwood Elementary, Loon Bay, along with their

teachers, Ms Pamela Coish and their bus driver Mr. Don Lewis and parent

chaperones, Joan Hooper, Jessie Osmond, Donna Kingman, Janette Head and Pansy

Landry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J. M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, today, I am pleased to

announce a plan to reduce the wait list for cardiac surgery. The Health Care

Corporation of St. John's has made arrangements for Newfoundland residents to

undergo cardiac surgery at the Queen Elizabeth II Health Sciences Centre in

Halifax, Nova Scotia and the St. John Regional Hospital in New Brunswick.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J. M. AYLWARD: We estimate, Mr. Speaker, that

approximately 50 Newfoundland residents waiting for heart surgery will avail of

this program between June and the end of this calendar year.

The Health Care Corporation of St. John's will notify

patients of their options as quickly as possible. Those patients who have been

waiting for the longest period of time will be given priority. Mr. Speaker, the

cost of performing the procedures is covered under inter-provincial agreements

in place between all provinces. Given the circumstances surrounding the cardiac

surgery wait list, government is prepared, on a one time basis, to cover

transportation costs for these patients.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, our preferred option would

be to perform all of our cardiac surgeries here in this Province. Government and

the Health Care Corporation of St. John's are working to increase our capacity

to perform cardiac surgery through dedicated ICU space and expanded operating

facilities that will increase our ability to perform twelve procedures per week

on a consistent basis, up from approximately ten per week, which is the current

average. This will mean approximately 80 to 100 extra cardiac surgeries a year.

We have committed the funds necessary to increase our capacity and will move to

ensure the new space is ready by January, 1998.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J. M. AYLWARD: Sending patients out of the Province is

an interim solution to help relieve the pressure of the wait list for cardiac

surgery in the Province. Once the immediate problem is dealt with, and our

capacity to perform cardiac surgery in St. John's is expanded, we will be able

to accommodate our needs within this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay

South.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for providing me with a

copy of her statement. I am very pleased today, Minister, to hear you say that

we have made arrangements to have at least fifty people from our Province - it

is unfortunate that they have to go outside the Province to have this surgery

done, but at least it is of benefit to those who are on the wait list.

So, on this side of the House, we are very glad to hear this

announcement today and the sooner this happen the better. I know of cases where

people were prepped five, six and seven times to go for heart surgery. This

today is certainly welcome news and the sooner we can put it into action, then

the better.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi. Does he have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is certainly welcome news that the Province is recognizing

this crisis of a waiting list. Whether the surgery is being performed inside or

outside the Province, the important thing is that the service is being provided,

and, on a short-term basis, it makes sense to do what is being done. On the

long-term basis, of course, we have to be able to provide the service here, but

we also have to recognize that we have a serious problem in this Province in

terms of the very high number of cardiac conditions that need to be treated and

we have to look at long-term preventative solutions, as well.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and

Labour.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have been advised by a letter dated May 12, in

the last couple of days, from Mr. William Parsons, Executive Director of the

Newfoundland and Labrador Building and Construction Trades Council, that a

collective agreement between Newfoundland Transshipment and the Newfoundland and

Labrador Building and Construction Trades Council has now been finalized.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: The Agreement covers all work at the

Whiffen Head site for the Newfoundland Transshipment Project. It provides for

industrial peace, no strike and no lockout, as well as a commitment for the

supply of quality productive skills to ensure the project is delivered on time

and within budget.

I want to express sincere thanks and appreciation to the

representatives of Newfoundland Transshipment and the Building Trades Council

for their timeless effort in bringing about this collective agreement. We will

continue to offer the services of government, the Department of Environment and

Labour to those parties should it become appropriate during the construction of

this project.

I also want to indicate that yesterday we met with a

community group from the area, with the member, the hon. Percy Barrett, to

discuss local hiring issues and in the next ten days we will be initiating a

meeting with both unions and the management to deal with that issue.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Anytime that a collective agreement has been bargained in

good faith between employer and employee representatives and brings to a

conclusion resolution and agreement where a project can move forward in a timely

manner, then it certainly is not only good for the people involved in the

project but is good for the people in this Province. Specifically dealing with

this industry in the transshipment facility, I would like to offer one

constructive suggestion to the Minister of Environment and Labour who has

committed today to offering the services of his department to the process should

it be needed, when and if it is needed, that he would ensure that a timely

mechanism for dispute resolution is put in place, so that any disagreements or

arguments that may arise out of this collective agreement -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. E. BYRNE: By leave, just to conclude?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave? By leave.

MR. E. BYRNE: - that any disagreements that may arise,

that a timely and effective dispute resolution mechanism be put in place to

ensure that the project proceed on time and on budget which would be a benefit

to everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi

Vidi, does he have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am delighted that a positive collective agreement has been

reached that is agreeable to both sides. It ensures once again, Mr. Speaker,

that we will have a first-rate, first-class workforce of unionized workers

working on this project as they have done on the Hibernia project, in Marystown,

Mr. Speaker, in the plant, and dockyard workers showing full capability in heavy

industrial projects in this Province.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just have initially, one quick question for the Minister of

Industry, Trade and Technology.

A notice was posted yesterday in the Marystown shipyard that

indicated that the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology was announcing in

the House here yesterday the contract for the awarding of the two tugs for the

transshipment would be built in Marystown.

Could the minister indicate if you know, why that was not

announced or, if there is some problem with these contracts and just bring us up

to date?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and

Technology.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, they are very excited in

Marystown. There is a lot of good things happening there. Contracts are being

won in the Gulf of Mexico, there are contracts being won as far away as Europe

and stay tuned I say to the hon. member, stay tuned next Friday.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am sure the minister realizes his colleague, Roger Simmons

is in deep trouble in the old St. George's and he wants to down with the hoop-la

and the natural gas plant -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: - with the natural gas plant last year.

I would like to ask questions of the Minister of Works,

Services and Transportation, Mr. Speaker.

The former Minister of Works, Services and Transportation

announced that government plans to privatize the maintenance of the operation of

our roads and highways with a pilot project to begin in the Avalon region.

Now she further indicated that government would honour its

collective agreement which ensured that employees will not lose their jobs as a

result of this process. I want to ask the minister, will he confirm whether this

plan is still being pursued by government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My predecessor did

announce that she was reflecting on the possibility of initiating a pilot

project. I've had some discussions with the union, Dave Curtis, surrounding this

issue. I expect to be saying something in the near future with respect to the

subject at hand, and at that point I will bring complete clarity to the issue

and to your mind.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I read the former

minister's statement actually in the Telegram there on the snags. British

Columbia, I say to the minister, privatised its roads in a similar manner eight

years ago. It had private contractors hire the transportation employees and they

leased or sold the yards and equipment to private contractors, along the line

that this government has indicated. The B.C. government had a report done five

years later by Ernst and Young, one of the representatives, and three other

prominent people had a report done -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, the hon. member is on a supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: - for the B.C. government -

MR. SPEAKER: He should get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: - and I ask the minister, in light of the

fact that they have indicated the costs were up to $19 million a year more under

the private operation, I ask the minister: Is he aware of the analysis that was

done by the B.C. government on this similar venture? If not, will he take the

time to review the analysis of this report?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I'm aware that

the B.C. government has issued a report based on the experience it has had with

respect to the privatization initiatives. I must confess, I haven't had a chance

to read it. I will undertake, not as a result of your representation, but I was

in full intention to review that report myself when I get a chance. I'm

reviewing the whole issue, I'm reviewing the whole file, and I will take into

consideration all types of verbal, written and other types of information and

advice I can receive, and I will be making a decision and a statement regarding

this initiative in the near future.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope they won't

read it after they take action, like they do in many instances. The report

stated, and I say for the minister, it said: If as much effort and financial

resources had been invested into simply improving the ministry's original

position, it said that instead of privatizing in its current form it is likely

that significantly different outcomes and costs would have been the result. Does

the minister feel that there are inefficiencies in his department? Will he

pursue that avenue before taking any drastic and irreversible action?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I think if the hon. member

would be honest in reflecting he would realize that over the past two

predecessors of mine in that department a considerable number of improvements in

terms of efficiencies have occurred. A number of things have been done to

improve these services and at the same time containing and in some instances

reducing the cost of providing those services so that today, Mr. Speaker, we

still have in this Province a high level of service at a price that was better

than it was being delivered here.

Now what I have heard the people who work in the system say,

what I have heard them say in the public meetings they have been having and what

I have heard from Mr. Curtis in my discussions with him is that it is roundly

acknowledged that there are areas still where efficiencies and savings can be

achieved. I want to say to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, that I am not against,

as a matter of fact, I am on the contrary quite prepared to hear from the

employees who work in the system and let them tell me, let them tell government

if there are areas and where there are areas that further efficiencies can be

made. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I stand by the statement that I made a few

minutes ago that I will be speaking more fully to this concept and to this issue

in the not to distant future.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The BC report has said it does not support reversing the

privatization initiative by returning back to the original method. It goes on to

say because this would give rise to a new round of excess expenditures. In other

words it said they went too far, it is irreversible and now it is more costly to

operate. I want to ask the minister, will he commit today that changes and

improvements must not be based on simple, philosophical arguments about public

or private sectors but would be based instead on a valid analysis and convincing

evidence that changes will achieve cost reductions and an improved public

service?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, government has two

responsibilities really in terms of delivering public services; number one it is

to ensure that we deliver a high level of quality public service. Secondly, it

is to ensure that we do it at the very best price possible in the interest of

the taxpayers of the Province. Simply put, that is the objective of this

government, that is the objective of this ministry, and we will reflect on - if

we can do things better, differently, then we will do that.

I think the hon. member would remember just two days back

that after reflecting upon, and after considering all the evidence, and after

taking into account the new circumstance with respect to the King Air, which we

thought was obsolete, we made a decision that we think is appropriate and proper

in the best interest of air ambulance service in the Province. We will do no

less, and do no less diligence in terms of addressing this particular issue and

this concept, as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, and I released two Cabinet documents that said it was

cheaper to keep it than to privatize it, and the former minister said: No, that

is outdated. You changed for political purposes. We agree with that statement

you made already. We agreed with it. We went on the record on that statement -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: - and you followed along the line we said,

because there was no evidence to indicate otherwise. That is what was happening.

Now, Minister, privatization -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to

his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: Your department is using privatization as

an excuse for gross inefficiencies and gross incompetence in that particular

department. I have dozens of examples and I will give them to you, I say to the

minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Will the minister admit, as he did with Air

Ambulance, that he made a mistake, and reverse this decision before it becomes a

real pilot fiasco?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have no difficulty in receiving from the hon. member, as I

have said many times, suggestions or levels of information that might help us

improve the way we deliver government services. But I have to say to the hon.

member, I am looking forward much more to hearing from the people who work in

the system, the front-line workers, as to what their concepts are in terms of

efficiencies and improvements that they believe we can achieve in the system.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Once we have taken the time, Mr. Speaker,

to reflect upon the type of information we can get from those who deliver the

services, then we will be in a better position, I believe, to make informed and

correct decisions as to how we should proceed with delivering government

services in the future. As one former Prime Minister said about conscription, I

would say about privatization. I would say, privatization if necessary, but not

necessarily privatization. We will see where we go.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Leader

of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I know about front-line workers. I met with them for

two-and-a-half hours on Friday, and last night we met again. Our caucus showed

up and were represented.

Minister, your problem is not with front-line workers, I say,

it is not front-line workers who diligently do their job out there, your problem

is with a point of management.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: I ask the minister: Will he agree to

privatize his management? Will the minister agree to bind his management to

performance contracts and fire them if they cannot perform a service that is

equal or superior to what is provided in the private sector?

MR. FITZGERALD: Time for you to clean House, Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, it is very clear -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that the

Leader of the Opposition is not the least bit interested in the future of the

Marystown Shipyard or the least bit interested in the tremendous work that is

being undertaken by the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. It is

obvious that he is continuing the campaigning that he was doing in Labrador last

week, when he was there with a citizen who has a full heart and a genuine

commitment to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, this gentleman, Mr.

Patten, who was recruited from Ottawa, having lost the PC nomination in Ottawa

to carry the PC flag in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, that candidacy is as phoney as

the concern that is being expressed by the Leader of the Opposition today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay

South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Might I just say that -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the

Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

Might I just say to the Premier before I go on to the

minister, that before he talks about the candidate in Labrador, I think he had

better talk about the candidate for somewhere out around Port aux Basque, who,

on last Tuesday night, had no problem tearing the skin off the Premier of this

Province, believe me.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Minister, over the past number of years

there has been quite a few lay-offs in the Department of Works, Services and

Transportation. I realize that you are only into this department for a few days,

I wonder, when you have the opportunity, if you would table in the House of

Assembly the number of employee - and not management employees - who have been

laid off from this department over the past five years.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad to see that my friend, and I use that term loosely,

is back at it with me.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: I feel very much like the guy who said, if

it were not for bad luck, he would have no luck and I guess that is my

circumstance in terms of the critic that I have in the House. But, having said

that, I would be happy to undertake to provide that level of information to the

hon. member.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay

South, a supplementary.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, might I just say to the minister

that I am glad we do not have to operate on fog, either.

Minister, has a cost benefit analysis ever been done on work

that is being conducted by outside contractors? By outside contractors, I mean

work that the department is actually sending out to different people, such as

mechanical work and this type of thing. Has there been a cost analysis done as

to the actual cost that we can do this work for in-house versus sending it out?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If I understand the question correctly, he is asking me

whether or not I have seen an analysis of the results that have been achieved or

otherwise in the privatization initiatives that we have taken over the past

number of years as government.

I have to tell him: No, I have not seen that type of specific

analysis and report. In fact, I do not know, quite frankly, if one exists but I

will again undertake to see if there is such an analysis available. Before I

commit to making it available to the hon. member or anybody else, I will

undertake, of course, to review it myself. But it is an interesting question,

quite frankly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay

South, a supplementary.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As well, Mr. Minister, could you table in the House the

economic analysis done which justifies the privatization of the works, services

and transportation from Clarenville east, or again does this exist?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has not heard

clearly what my predecessor has been saying, or else he is a little out in front

of himself.

What my predecessor has said on this issue is that the

department was gathering information for analysis to determine whether or not in

fact there was a basis to proceed to a pilot project. That type of analysis, of

course, is ongoing as we speak and it would not be appropriate to release it if

I had it; but, quite frankly, we have not arrived at a point where we have the

full level of information provided to us through my officials to do even that

type of analysis. So, quite frankly, there is nothing to make available to you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay

South, a final supplementary.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Minister, will you confirm that on the Port au Port

Peninsula a private contractor was hired for a two-year contract with a total

cost of $207,000, and that a tender call by government was cancelled for a

three-year contract because the cost would have been some $654,000, when the

Department of Works, Services and Transportation can do this work for $60,000

annually? Why did the department not know before this tender was called?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Again, Mr. Speaker, to the specific details

of a contract in that particular area, I will have to take it under advisement,

because I am not intimately familiar with whether there was a contract in

conceptual form or whether, in fact, there was one that was about to be

released. I am not aware of the details but I will undertake to get them.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Justice.

My questions, by the way, are with respect to the youth centre in Whitbourne,

Mr. Minister.

It has been brought to my attention that in the recent past

there have been some suspicions with respect to drugs finding themselves at this

facility. As a result of this suspicion, strip searches were carried out, it is

my understanding, and also there were a number of lock-downs, the last one which

occurred during April past.

I am wondering if the Minister of Justice could confirm for

me that: 1) these suspicions, in fact, are correct; 2) that these types of

searches were carried out at the facility; and, 3) whether or not drugs were

found.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, I would have to take that

question under advisement. Even if such an event did take place, I would have to

take advice before I would make anything public on the matter. I will certainly

take the question under advisement.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East, a

supplementary.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I would expect a response tomorrow on that particular issue.

Is that...? It is an important issue. It is an issue, obviously, which has been

brought to my attention as critic for this particular area and it would be

appreciated if a response could be forthcoming on tomorrow's date.

One final point, I may add, and it also has to do with the

Newfoundland and Labrador Youth Centre in Whitbourne: As the minister is aware,

there have been significant reductions of budgetary allocations with respect to

that home. It is often said that the professional help, or the psychiatric help

and treatment which ought to be afforded to the young people at this facility

is, in fact, not happening. There is significant help for young people prior to

incarceration -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, unfortunately with

budgetary cuts this help does not appear to be there subsequent to

incarceration. My question to the minister is: What steps does he have in mind

to improve the situation, to ensure that the professional psychiatric and

psychological counselling is in place for young people who find themselves

unfortunate enough to be inmates of this facility. What steps specifically does

the minister have in mind to deal with this very critical problem?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is quite

correct, there have been decreases in the Budget for Whitbourne. I tell the hon.

gentleman that these decreases would have taken place whether or not there was a

program review or anything else taking place.

Over the past number of years we have had several studies

done of that particular institution, Mr. Speaker. As you know, it came to the

Justice Department and there were some changes made with the new administration.

At least one and maybe two of the studies which were done recommended that we

would make some changes in the way that that institution was managed. As the

result of making these changes, Mr. Speaker, a whole layer of management has

been removed. We have put some extra responsibilities on some of the caretakers,

some of the workers there who are quite capable of performing this. I don't want

to respond to rumours and suspicions, Mr. Speaker, I like to deal with concrete

facts. I am quite confident that the workers in that institution are performing

excellent work. The care which young people get when they are inside

institutions is second to none in the country.

The hon. member must know also, I am sure, that there are

changes taking place in the way we deal with young people in this situation.

There is much more emphasis being put on the community. There is no desire on

the part of anyone to keep people locked up in institutions unless it is

absolutely necessary and especially when we talk about the age group who usually

find themselves in the Whitbourne institution, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi

Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Education. Can the

minister advise the House how many schools are in operation in the Province? How

many of them have a school lunch or breakfast program, if the minister indeed

knows?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. GRIMES: I don't know the number of how many actual

schools offer such a program, Mr. Speaker, but I will endeavour to get the

number.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for

Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: I would have thought he would know the number

of schools at least, Mr. Speaker. My information is that there are some 470

schools in the Province and that there are only thirty-two school lunch or

breakfast programs. I want to ask the minister if he thinks that that is

adequate given the fact that the child poverty rate in this Province has

increased by 50 per cent since 1989 when the current Premier and the other

members of the House of Commons unanimously passed a resolution to committing

themselves to ending child poverty by the Year 2000, if there are now one-half

as many, 50 per cent more poor children in this Province than there were in

1989?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the hon.

member asking a question on behalf of his candidates for the NDP that are

running in the federal election. I have no idea, Mr. Speaker, because I have

heard that kind of comment made several times. The only time it has been

reiterated publicly, repeatedly is by candidates for the New Democratic Party.

The reality is that the federal government has addressed the issue of child

poverty as a priority by putting hundreds of millions of dollars, I think it is

over $800 million, into programs to address child poverty in the country. I

understand it was an issue - I watched a debate a couple of nights ago and

understood that the national leader for the NDP and the Prime Minister of the

country addressed that issue. What it is in Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr.

Speaker, because to lead into it is to suggest that he has some concern about

school lunch programs in the Province. We have 430 schools operating and I will

endeavour to find out in exactly how many schools there are school lunch

programs operating.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for

Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, the figures on child poverty

come from the national council on welfare report of this year. Is the minister

also aware that one of the three top key issues for children identified by the

Province's Social Policy Advisory Committee was school meal programs in all

schools? They have identified that the risk for poor children in school, failure

is twice as high as children who are well fed. Is the minister prepared to have

another look at his policy on school lunch programs and look at the development

of a universal school lunch program in this Province so that we can feed our

hungry children?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. member I think would have to acknowledge as well

that the provincial government also has taken this area as a priority item; it

is reflected in our considerations in our budgetary decisions. Just last year,

Mr. Speaker, and as a matter of fact, other ministers and I, and I believe the

member opposite was involved in a circumstance with the school lunch foundation

for the Province whereby, at their request, after they met with the Social

Policy Committee of the Cabinet, the government increased its participation in

funding for school lunch programs and breakfast programs in the Province in an

organization, Mr. Speaker, that has been renowned and acknowledged in the

Province for doing a tremendous job and that they are expanding the program to

try to meet requests from different areas in the Province and we were delighted

to participate as well with a major corporate sponsor in Petro Canada joining in

with a $200,000 contribution because the organization itself, the government had

shown that it was an area of priority and the private sector, through

corporations like Petro Canada are seeing that the Province expands into areas

where it might be further needed in Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation.

Will the minister confirm that on the Catamaran Park, she had

an offer on the table for $15,000 from a family with decades of experience in

the operation of provincial parks, most especially Catamaran Park?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I cannot confirm publicly any of

the details of this as I outlined yesterday, but we also have a situation here

that we want to privatize these parks into successful tourism establishment

operations.

I can tell you that in Catamaran Park, we had extremely good

proposals, very good proposals, and that through the criteria that was put into

place, a successful proponent was announced a few days ago and that the park

will be opened this weekend. All of the short-listed proponents could not be

successful. There had to be one winner here. We were very pleased with many of

the proposals. At the end of this process as I outlined to you yesterday, we

will make a full, public report.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South, a

supplementary.

MR. OSBORNE: Will the minister confirm that even though

she said preference would be given to provincial park employees, that the new

private operator of Catamaran Park does not have the advantage of having the

same knowledge or experience as the proponent who has decades of experience in

the operation of provincial parks, in the financial operations of provincial

parks and in the tourism industry in general?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

MS KELLY: These are astounding questions that are being

asked here this afternoon.

I have been, since February 20, receiving questions about the

process of privatization and how much the hon. member has been against it. Now,

all of a sudden, I am answering questions about the successful proponents and

supporting one proponent over another.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS KELLY: I have to tell the hon. member that we did not

judge all of these proposals on one criteria, on money or experience alone. It

was done on a very public process where we outlined the type of proposals we

were looking at; it was done in a very businesslike, professional way. We had

good proposals but it was not all based just on financial resources or

experience. It was a whole set of criteria and as I pointed out to you in that

particular park, we had very good proposals. It was a difficult choice but we

followed our criteria and did it properly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South, a

supplementary.

MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Will the minister tell us whether or not it is true that the

new private operator on the Catamaran Park got the park for less than the

$15,000 that was offered by the person with far, far more experience?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the House,

as I have done on many previous occasions that we did not sell the parks. We

privatize the parks. There were a set of criteria that were very well followed.

We wanted to ensure that park employees for instance had a level playing field.

They were given points on the criteria judgement for their experience because we

knew that in many instances their proposals and their work experience, they have

the experience and they could well run the parks. In some parks we had different

sets of past employees bid on the park. Not all past employees could win,

because on the short list sometimes we had two and three employee groups that

were bidding on the parks.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS KELLY: So we had to follow our criteria. We did it and

we did it well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Question period has ended.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in my place

to present yet another petition on the privatization of the parks. The people

who signed this petition are from Pouch Cove, Flatrock, Torbay, Paradise, and

the Avalon Peninsula.

I've stood in my place a number of times and presented

petitions in this House, and I've submitted statements in this House with

respect to what would happen with the park system in Newfoundland and Labrador

with respect to the privatization of the parks. I've said in the past that what

could happen down the road, and maybe next year or the year after, the core

parks that were left could very well end up in the hands of one individual. The

core parks that would be left, of course, would be the most viable and feasible

parks in the Province, and we may have an individual come in a year or two down

the road with an unsolicited proposal and end up with the parks.

I know the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation was

asked questions in this House yesterday about the process with respect to the

privatization of the parks, and she was asked questions again today with respect

to the privatization of parks. Basically what has been asked is: On what basis

are these parks being awarded? What are the criteria that are being used to

privatize these parks? The minister is refusing to give the answers. What she is

saying is that they are in the middle of a process - I think there were eight

announced yesterday, thirteen more to come, whatever the case may be - to

privatize these parks with respect to what criteria are being used. She says

that she is going to make a full disclosure when all the parks are privatized,

when the deed is done.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You can read it. Do you know how to read, I

ask the Minister of Education? You should know how to read. I imagine you do.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, she said she is going to make a full disclosure after the

deed is done. When the people who made applications who were not successful, and

the contracts are signed on the dotted line, it will be too late for those

individuals. She is up in her place saying she is not going to give us any

information until it is really too late.

That goes right back to the point I made earlier in

presenting petitions that it could very well happen that the successful bidders

will end up, probably, as who you know rather than what you know, or what the

presentation is. I sincerely hope that is not the case, but it certainly appears

to be, for the simple reason that the minister is refusing to give us any

information on how she is privatizing the parks.

I have a little bit of a sore throat here. I don't know if

you picked up on that yet. I'm not going to say much more than that. I think the

Member for St. John's South may want to speak to this petition. As long as the

petitions come in we will continue to present these petitions in the House of

Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have presented

many petitions in the House on the privatisation of parks, and again I'm proud

to stand and support the petition presented by my hon. colleague for Cape St.

Francis. There has been much debate across the floor on the privatization of

provincial parks. There has been much debate in the public forum on the

privatization of provincial parks. Unfortunately, the answers that have been

requested through this House are not always provided, and especially, most

certainly, not provided with any sense of alacrity.

The provincial parks workers are being offered positions,

fifty-five of them. Many of them will only get employment for a twelve-week

period. Unfortunately, that is not nearly what they were given in the past, not

nearly what they were working in the past, and these people have families, they

have children, they have bills, mortgages to pay and so on. Unfortunately this

government sees fit to privatize parks. It sees fit to talk about privatizing

our highways. It sees fit to closing schools, closing hospital beds, and it all

comes down to budget, the bottom line. Yet the answer truly lies in whether or

not this government is operating our resources and taking the benefits out of

our resources in the proper respect. Many people in this Province today would

say that it is not.

Mr. Speaker, for the record again, I am opposed to the

privatization of provincial parks and I am most happy to support the petition

put forward by my colleague.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi

Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a number of

Newfoundlanders who are calling upon this Legislature to direct government to

establish a universal, comprehensive school lunch program for every school in

Newfoundland and Labrador to help end child hunger and give our children a

better chance.

Mr. Speaker, this issue was raised in Question Period by me,

and I am surprised at the lack of knowledge of the Minister of Education of the

state of the school situation in this Province of Newfoundland. He did not know,

for example, that there are only thirty-two school meal programs in the 432

schools that we have in this Province. He wasn't even sure how many schools

there were. What appals me is that he doesn't also know that some of these

programs, the thirty-two they are founding, are in danger of closing down

because they don't have any sustained financing, and the ability of these

communities to deliver those programs is under great strain and great stress.

Mr. Speaker, he also challenged the numbers. He wasn't

satisfied with the numbers in terms of child poverty. Well, he obviously has not

read - which he should, as should all members of the Social Policy Committee of

Cabinet, in fact every person in this House should read - the Report of the

National Council of Welfare, published in the spring of 1997, which discloses,

on page 76, that 36,000 children in Newfoundland and Labrador are living in

poverty, at a poverty rate of 26 per cent. This is the figure for 1995, which

has increased up from 1989, which is disclosed on page 79 of the report, of 17.9

per cent. So we have a 50 per cent increase from 1989 to 1995.

Mr. Speaker, 1989 is a significant date. It was not only the

election of the Liberal government here - that is not that important in this

particular content - it was a date on which, in 1989, in the House of Commons in

Ottawa, there was a unanimous resolution. It happened to be proposed by Ed

Broadbent, but it was a unanimously supported resolution, including the Liberal

caucus of which the current Premier was a member, unanimously supported, a

commitment of all members of the House of Commons and all political parties

sitting there to end child poverty by the year 2000.

Mr. Speaker, six years later, in 1995, and here we are eight

years later, and the child poverty rate in this country and in this Province has

increased by 50 per cent. That is appalling. I don't know what we have to do to

wake up the Minister of Education and some members over there. Do we have to

drag in poor children and hungry children and put them on the floor of the House

of Assembly? Do we have to stage a production of Oliver and have someone come in

and say, `Can I have some more, please, Sir?', so they will understand there are

36,000 poor children in this Province, and that many of them are going to school

hungry every single day? Do we have to do that? Is that what we have to do to

encourage members opposite and to encourage this government to take more than a

voluntary, charitable approach to this problem that cannot solve it, that cannot

address it, that even now, with thirty-two programs, cannot, cannot meet the

demand and cannot, on a daily, ongoing basis, sustain these programs. They are

threatening to close them down. They need support, they need subsidy, and there

needs to be an established, universal program if this problem is going to be

addressed; so I urge hon. members to take this matter seriously. This is not a

partisan ploy to encourage people to think about this.

I quoted today from the Social Policy Advisory Committee, who

identified the need for a school meal program in all schools in the Province as

one of the top three key issues for children of this Province - one of the top

three. The top one is nutrition and food security, key issues for children in

this Province. It is not a party platform. It is the National Council on

Welfare, the Social Policy Advisory Committee appointed by this government.

I see the member who was involved in the Children's Interest

Committee listening very attentively here because he knows, and as a former

school principal he also knows, the state of hunger in schools in our Province

today. It needs to be addressed. It is a real problem, a real issue, and if this

government and this House of Assembly does not address this issue in a proper

way then more of our children are going to go hungry, more of our children are

going to be hurting. They are going to be failing in school, and there are going

to be problems in years to come.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I stand today in support of the petition as

presented by my colleague to my right. I think the point that the hon. member

makes is a valid one and it perhaps goes above and beyond the actual wording of

the petition itself and it has to do with the degree of seriousness which is

given to what is obviously a very important issue in this Province and day after

day the member to my right, my colleague directly in front of me and myself and

even the minister across the way, I mean there are discussions and deliberations

and comments in support of these petitions, but it seems that it constantly goes

on deaf ears and the question has to be asked, well what has to be done in order

for this government to take seriously the very critical issue which is being

raised in this particular petition?

We are talking about our greatest resource, we are talking

about our young children, we are talking about a number, as I referenced

yesterday in the report entitled; `Special Matters', which was a special

education report requested by this government and released during the fall of

1996 and in this government's own report we have some 38,000, according to this

report, children who are at or below the poverty line. Mr. Speaker, that is

simply unacceptable and all this petition wants to do and seeks to do is to draw

attention to this government that we have a problem with respect to poverty and

young children and in recognition of that, let us instate a policy which

addresses that problem, to ensure that in a non-stigmatized way each child in

this Province can be recognized in equality with one another and can be given

the nutritional value which is required for every single girl and every single

boy to perform at his or her optimal. That is all this is asking and what we

want, the members on this side of the House, what is being requested is to have

this issue addressed seriously and responded to in a serious way by members

opposite, to ensure that the children of our Province are given the priority

which they so richly deserve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just a few comments with respect to the petition because

obviously a very serious issue that this government has already indicated it

takes as a priority with the monies that we have funded into the school lunch

programs for the Province and delighted that some corporate sponsors, as I have

indicated in answers to questions in Question Period, have also joined in with a

very well established school lunch foundation to allow for children who are in

need of food because of the fact that they do not have it available at home or

choose not to eat at home.

I think the members opposite are very well aware of the value

of the program and the non-stigmatizing nature of it and the fact that it is not

just poor children who do not have food at home that access this program, but

any child who wants to avail of a breakfast or a hot lunch at a school where the

program is available.

In the schools of Newfoundland and Labrador currently, there

are thirty-two such programs presently, seven of them are operating in St.

John's, the other twenty-five are in other rural settings throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador and the school lunch foundation indicates to us that,

with the money that they now have available through government sponsorship,

their own support that they get from locally based contributors and the

corporate sponsorship, that they expect to be able to sustain the full

thirty-two and add up to fifty more programs, depending on the number of

requests that they get.

Mr. Speaker, I just conclude by saying that I understand that

the mover of the petition in this case and the presenter indicates that he

always pushes the concept of a universal school lunch program and the government

has no intention of having a universal school lunch program and would actually

hope in fact, that we might never get to the circumstance where we would need to

provide lunches for children in every single school in Newfoundland and

Labrador, but this program is growing steadily. The government has indicated its

willingness to participate. There are very good programs in place supported by

the local community, by the volunteers and by the organizers supported

financially by the government, local supporters and corporate sponsors and we

expect that if and when other communities come forward and request involvement

in this program, that we will be able to meet the need on an as needed basis

rather than having a universal program.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, before we began private members

motion put forward by the member for Topsail, I think we have agreement to have

first reading of the Bills contained in Motion 2, 3, 4 and 5, that will be Bill

No. 15, 16, 17 and 14. Mr. Speaker, I would ask that we do first reading on

those Bills, Bill No. 15, first.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion, the Hon. the Minister of Government

Services and Lands to introduce a Bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The

Residential Tenancies Act," carried. (Bill No. 15).

"An Act To Amend The Collections Act", (Bill No. 16).

"An Act To Amend The Direct Sellers Act", (Bill No. 17).

On motion, Bill Nos. 15, 16 and 17 read a first time, ordered

read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the Hon. the Minister of Education to introduce a

Bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Schools Act, 1996", carried, (Bill No. 14).

On motion, Bill No. 14 read a first time, ordered read a

second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: It now being three of the clock on Wednesday

afternoon and Private Members Day.

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: Motion, No. 8.

The hon. the Member for Topsail.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Indeed, it is again an honour and a privilege to have the

opportunity to stand in this honourable House and always, Mr. Speaker, I suppose

a little bit humble knowing full-well that you have been charged with the

responsibility of representing the constituents in your district.

Mr. Speaker, I sort of made myself a promise today that when

I get up in this House to speak, I would sort of stick to the topic at hand and

not to be goaded in any way by members opposite and, Mr. Speaker, I intend to do

that; I really intend to stand here today and talk about the hope that we have

for the future; and as the petition reads, Mr. Speaker:

WHEREAS our Province is celebrating the 500th year of

discovery of Newfoundland and Labrador by John Cabot; and

WHEREAS there has been terrific effort gone into the

promotion and planning for the celebration of this important milestone in our

Province's, indeed the nation's history; and

WHEREAS Members of this Honourable House play a significant

leadership role in their districts and collectively for the Province;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that all Members of this Honourable

House actively promote these celebrations and help build on our tourism strength

so we can make this year the biggest tourism year ever for this Province.

Now, Mr. Speaker, that is a pretty straightforward

resolution. Mr. Speaker, it is not asking a lot for the members of this House to

be responsible because they are, in their own way, leaders in their districts

and we, as a Province, Mr. Speaker, certainly need all the help we can get to

make this year a successful year.

I see the Member for Bonavista South over there, Mr. Speaker,

he understands fully what I am saying. He knows about - as he has spoken about

many times - the devastation in his district to the collapse of the fishery

which was always the mainstay of this Province. Mr. Speaker, this year under the

leadership of the good Minister of Tourism, the good Member for Gander, we have

an opportunity to bring new monies into this Province to help alleviate some of

the problems that we are experiencing and believe you me, Mr. Speaker, we have

problems but in order to address those problems we need money and lots of it.

Now, Mr. Speaker, it is estimated that there is going to be

somewhere in the vicinity of 60,000 people visiting this Province this year. It

is estimated that it is going to generate somewhere between $35 million and $40

million. Now $35 million or $40 million, Mr. Speaker, is a lot of new money and

that is a pretty conservative figure. That is based on visitors to this Province

spending approximately $500 each.

What prompted me to bring forth this resolution was that a

couple of days ago, as I said yesterday in the House, I was driving along the

highway and happened to hear a news report saying that accommodations were

filled here in the Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, I don't want to really go into

what I think the cause of that news report was. I really don't want to do that

because I made myself a promise, Mr. Speaker, that we all have to work together

to try and make this Province a better Province for all Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians. There is no doubt in my mind, Mr. Speaker, that members opposite

are going to get up and speak to this motion, fully supporting the initiatives

of this government to make this year and not only this year but every year

thereafter, a successful tourism year. We are talking about somewhere in the

vicinity of $400 million a year that is generated by tourism in this Province.

Now, Mr. Speaker, that is quite a bit of money but we could always use quite a

bit more. I believe, with every member of this House taking the positive

approach that we could certainly make this year a very, very successful year.

Mr. Speaker, I know that the Member for Bonavista South is

excited. He is excited about the Matthew coming on June 24th with a

variety of dignitaries to the town of Bonavista. Can you imagine on June 24th -

can you imagine being out in Bonavista and the good ship the Matthew

sails into Bonavista? Can you imagine the excitement, not just among

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians but among all the visitors to this Province?

All the visitors to this Province are going to be excited because as I have

said, Mr. Speaker, for many years the country of Canada began here in

Newfoundland. It began here on the shores of Newfoundland even though we might

have been a little bit slower in joining the rest of the country in 1949 but

Cape Bonavista was still the landfall for the discovery of that great nation of

ours.

Mr. Speaker, I have had calls from friends of mine who have

friends down in the United States, and I don't mind telling you I have sent to

the United States at least a half a dozen of these tourism booklets so that

people who want to come here can pick and choose what type of event they want to

attend. I want to commend the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation for a

superb job in putting together the information for the Cabot 500 celebrations.

There comes a time, irregardless of what political stripe you may be -

AN HON. MEMBER: Irregardless is not a word.

MR. WISEMAN: Irregardless of what political stripe you

may be -

AN HON. MEMBER: There's no such word!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

AN HON. MEMBER: Regardless.

MR. WISEMAN: Irregardless, Mr. Speaker, of what political

stripe you may be, you have to accept the realities. The reality is that the

Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation has done a good job in promoting the

Cabot 500 celebrations. Fact number one.

Fact number two, we were discovered 500 years ago. Nobody can

change that, nobody. Nobody can change the fact that the Minister of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation has travelled around the country and halfway across the

world to promote the Cabot 500 celebrations. I believe every single one of us in

this House has an obligation to all the people whom we represent that we should

be out there doing our utmost to make this event the most successful event ever.

I don't believe that anybody in this House is going to stand

up and vote against this motion. Because I believe we are all here to make

Newfoundland and Labrador a better province for all of us.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, the Member for Waterford Valley

says I'm tempting him. Believe you me, he is tempting me. But I made a promise

today that I would stand in this House and talk about the Cabot 500

celebrations, talk about the opening ceremonies, talk about the Northern Lights

celebration, the Year of the Arts, the forty-six days that the Matthew is

going to be circumnavigating this great Province of ours.

Can you imagine the excitement in the outports of this

Province when the Matthew pulls into port? All of us know the kinds of

hardships that our people in the rural areas have had since 1992. But we have

been here for 500 years, and it has been difficult, but we have stayed because

we have had the intestinal fortitude to move ahead, to try to make things

better, and we will. We will make it. We will make it because I believe the

members of this Legislature will do their

part in making the Cabot 500

celebrations the most successful celebrations not only the Province has ever

seen, not only that the country has ever seen, but the world has ever seen.

We have invited the world to come visit Newfoundland and

Labrador. We have done that, and I say again that the Minister of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation has done an excellent job in being our ambassador to the

rest of the country and to the world. Today and every day we should be proud

that she took on that responsibility and has worked to the best of her ability

to make this year a successful year.

Imagine the Festival 500, Sharing the Voices, choirs from

around the world gathered together in Newfoundland and Labrador to celebrate the

human voice. Can you imagine? The Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation

has made these things possible.

Again, the Summit of the Sea, September 1-19, exploring the

sustainability of the marine environment, its problems and solutions, its past

and its future. Can you imagine, if we had the opportunity - and we should take

the opportunity, to listen to the discussions at that summit. In fact, I would

not mind being there myself to listen to the problems, to seek solutions, to

remember the past and to look forward to the future.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, all of us in this House came

here because we felt that we had the ability to make a difference, and if we all

work together, especially on this 500 year celebrations, and especially the

Cabot 500 Celebrations, I believe that we can make a world of difference. Just

by working together we can attract more people, and if we attract more people,

then obviously, we are going to have more revenues.

MR. FITZGERALD: Are you coming down, `Ralph'? Are you

coming down to Bonavista on the 24th?

MR. WISEMAN: The Member for Bonavista South wants to know

if I am coming down. I will be there, Mr. Speaker, and I am certain that he has

an invitation to be there.

MR. FITZGERALD: I will buy you a drink.

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, he has offered to buy me a

drink. I hope it is Pepsi. I do not drink alcohol, not that I am religious or

anything, I just do not like it.

MR. FITZGERALD: According to what you are like when you

are sober, I would not want to see you half in the bag.

MR. WISEMAN: You know, Mr. Speaker, what the hon. the

Member for Bonavista South said is quite acceptable. He sort of indicates that I

am bad enough without it. Can you imagine if I were? The thing is, if he wants

to know if I had a couple of drinks - I can on occasion, if I choose, but - then

I do not say anything. I do that out of fear. I just do not say anything.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. WISEMAN: No leave?

MR. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member asking for leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave, the hon. the Member for Topsail.

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I will not be long because

there are forty-eight members in this House and I am sure that they, like me,

want to have -

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MR. WISEMAN: It is okay?

MR. SULLIVAN: Yes.

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am really confused now. I am

really starting to get confused, because the Leader of the Opposition tells me

it is okay, I can go on and on and on; but this would be a much better

discussion if the Leader of the Opposition got up and talked about the good

things that have come out of the Cabot 500 Celebrations, to get up and tell this

House the kind of support he is going to give to those celebrations.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Leader of

the Opposition is here to do what is in the best interest of Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians, and by his getting up and supporting the Minister of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation in her efforts, and by his saying that we need more

revenues in this Province, I think we would be better off this summer. Because

the Leader of the Opposition chose to lead to his troops in this charge to make

it better for everyone.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Topsail was speaking so eloquently about this

resolution. It is a good resolution, and we all support it. We would have let

him speak all afternoon.

Mr. Speaker, of course, the members on this side of the House

support this resolution, and, of course, we will do what we can to make sure

that the Cabot 500 celebrations are successful. Of course, we are all interested

in seeing our tourism industry in this Province prosper, and the tourism

operators in this Province prosper, the tour operators grow and have a good year

this year, above all years. This being the Cabot 500 year, it is most especially

important that the tourism operators have a good year this year.

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to tie up the valuable time of

the House. This is a good resolution, we all support it. We have very important

things to talk about in the House, so, Mr. Speaker, I am going to give my

support to this resolution. Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls -

Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I am delighted today to rise in

this hon. House to add my support to the resolution. All of us here in this

Province are proud of what is about to happen and what has already begun. I

would like to zero in actually, on what is about to begin in my district. It is

called the Exploits Experience.

We have been calling our celebration this year the Exploits

Experience: Exploits Wild and Free, we are entitling it. Why we use that name is

because wild and free applies very much to our part of the Province, which is

recreation in the country that all of us have grown accustomed to and can easily

enjoy. Recreation for the people in Central Newfoundland is what we call `up in

the woods', or on some of our great rivers and streams.

The focus of our tourism attraction this year, I believe,

began some twelve years ago in what we call the former town of Grand Falls. It

was an idea two people had, sharing over a cup of coffee one morning. They said:

We should do something to promote the salmon on the Exploits River. From that

very small humble beginning grew what we call today the Exploits Valley Salmon

Festival. The Exploits Valley Salmon Festival attracts some 30,000 visitors

every year and it injects probably about $1.7 million into our local economy.

Often times our town council has been criticized. We have

been criticized during years where we had poor weather, and as a result we ended

up running this festival with a deficit. On years that we had good weather, and

I recall many of them - in particular was the Beach Boys of 1988. We drew over

30,000 people to a field that day. We were able to bring about one of the

biggest open air concerts in the Province, and it was a real success. We have

tried many times since to repeat that performance. You probably heard in the

news overnight that there is a bit of controversy right now in the town of Grand

Falls - Windsor, because the town is not giving up the information about what is

going to be included in this year's concert.

This year's concert is entitled Splash '97, and we have been

pretty secretive in holding back that information because, of course, we want to

announce it in a big way next week. They have contacted the Minister of

Municipal and Provincial Affairs for direction in that regard, on whether or not

that information needs to be released concerning the salmon festival. So we have

built up a lot of hype over it and we know that this year will be just as

exciting as any other year.

We have been criticized many times in the past because we

lost money but when you consider that we created summer employment, we boosted

the economic benefits of many businesses in the area and we have promoted our

area, how can we say that we have lost money or we are operating on a deficit?

You have to look at the big picture.

All the things that are happening in Grand Falls - Windsor

this year starts on July 17. You know once upon a time, the

Lieutenant-Governor's garden party was restricted to St. John's but, Mr.

Speaker, today, we have managed to attract the Lieutenant-Governor's garden

party to Grand Falls - Windsor. That starts off our festival, where we invite

people from all over Central Newfoundland to come visit with us first, and then

the next item would be a salmon dinner on Thursday night. There is another case,

Mr. Speaker, where we support local industry. We managed to get our salmon from

Bay d'Espoir - local industry once again. Then, the big event of the evening, of

course, is a concert at the stadium.

Then, we have a softball tournament for all over

Newfoundland, a provincial tournament. We have seven softball fields, and I do

not know why, Mr. Speaker, we are not considered to be the softball capital of

Newfoundland and Labrador. We should be. Because when you look at the money that

is generated from sports events - that is how it happens in Newfoundland.

Yes, we do get a lot of visitors in, but we have heard it

said before that the majority of tourists are our own people and they need to

know what is going on in every region. This event carries right over from

Thursday to Monday. It is one of the biggest events in our region.

The Exploits Experience is not restricted to just Grand Falls

- Windsor. It actually covers Leading Tickles right to Buchans. The Member for

Exploits, Minister of Education, MHA - I am sure he will like to elaborate on

what is happening in his district a little bit later on.

As we move up the road, Mr. Speaker, we cannot forget to

visit the Wooddale Tree Nursery, a place where you can go and see small

seedlings cultivated and ready for commercial harvesting. Do you know something?

This is one of the few things that we have that is admission-free.

As we go up the road further, we can go into Beotuck Park

where we can see the loggers museum, the exhibit of what it was like years ago

and do you know something else? That is free. These are the sorts of things that

you can go see as free events.

Then you only have to go across the Exploits River to see the

Salmonoid

Interpretation Centre, one of the big successes in our region. In

fact, they have the largest Atlantic salmon in the enhancement project in North

America. Where can you go without a Disneyland appearance and actually view

salmon going upstream? You can watch them going upstream inside the building

looking through a glass chamber. Everybody in the Province should visit that

facility. You should become familiar with it. It is something that we should all

be proud of.

Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of people who may not be

aware of the

part volunteers are playing in promoting this year as the Cabot

500th Year. Do you know, Mr. Speaker, we have 10,000 volunteers, unsung heroes,

who are making this possible?

We go up to Badger: Badger will be show-casing what they call

the Badger Festival Drive, three days of celebrations, and I promised them, this

year I would be able to learn how to compete with them and do the Macarena.

Three days of celebrations, and they have everything from concerts to games of

chance, you name it, it is all happening in Badger. And, you know, those events

raise money so they can operate their stadium throughout the winter, all the

money from these events. So, it is a very, very worthwhile cause; while they are

promoting tourism, they are rasing money.

Then, we go up to Buchans Junction. Buchans Junction is the

birthplace of our former Premier, Clyde K. Wells; Buchans Junction, where

logging has been the tradition and the occupation of the past. Then, we move

into Millertown, always associated with logging, a forestry town. Do not forget

to visit the former A & D School House, now a museum. Then we go ahead and see

Buchans. Buchans, this year, will be celebrating Come Home Year. And do you know

that Buchans was the first town in our Province to celebrate Come Home Year? the

very first town in our Province. This year, through the efforts of the Minister

of Tourism, Buchans will be able to celebrate with a new concrete floor in the

Soper Memorial Stadium.

Our government has recognized that in order to have a proper

facility to demonstrate our town, we needed a concrete floor in our stadium and

we could not do without it. So, the Minister of Tourism has seen fit to provide

these funds so we can have a showcase to showcase the people of Buchans and the

struggles they have had over the years.

Buchans is a town that almost died in 1984 with the closure

of the mines up there, but high-tech has come to Buchans and we all witnessed

here in this House a few weeks ago the announcement by Boeing that they had a

contract with Steel-Core in Buchans to manufacture airplane parts.

MR. TULK: Where is that in Buchans?

MS THISTLE: In Buchans. And when you look at Buchans,

about an hour-and-a-half off the highway -

MR. TULK: They are increasing their order all the time.

MS THISTLE: - and the order that they had in the

beginning was for, I think, $150,000-worth of work, that has been renewed over

and over since then. The Boeing group are very satisfied with the work that is

coming out of Buchans and I think the possibilities of further expansion look

really good.

What you have here is a region from Leading Tickles to

Buchans, a region that has gotten together because everybody realized that one

town alone could not create a proper tourism package. In fact, in the largest

town within that region, Grand Falls-Windsor, we realized that we could not get

people to stay overnight and spend two or three days. So, we decided to buddy up

with neighbouring towns so we could create an exciting one- two- or three-day

package to keep people in our area for a while. In the past few years, we have

noticed that people would come into Grand Falls-Windsor, stay at the hotel, buy

a magazine in the drugstore, and leave. We wanted to kill that idea. We wanted

people to stay longer, and naturally, spend more money. So, how do you do that?

You do not do that by putting all your eggs in one basket. You focus in, as a

region, and by us focusing in as a region and drawing all our communities

together, what we have been able to do is, we have been able to support each

other. We have been able to support each other on municipal issues, tourism

issues, and all the issues that are making us stronger both municipally and

provincially.

We are in Economic Zone 12, and by this coming together,

whether it be for tourism or whatever sector, it has made us stronger as a

group, and in a Province with limited resources like we have, one town standing

alone cannot manage on its own; and if you come together in tourism, you will

come together in every other sector. So, it is very important that the message

gets out throughout the Province, that if we are going to survive, we do not

have the infrastructure, we do not have the fiscal reality, to be all things to

all people. So what we need to do is co-operate with each other. By

co-operating, we can do things on a cost-efficiency basis and we can get our

message out so that the whole world can see us and know that it will be

interesting to come to our region, and we are going to have a good package.

When you look through this booklet, you see a young person

from Grand Falls - Windsor starting up a business called: Red Indian Adventures.

Can you imagine what that is?

AN HON. MEMBER: That is the one I visited.

MS THISTLE: You did?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: You have a young person who is actually going

to provide white-river rafting and canoeing on the Exploits River, something

that was entirely unheard of; but, you know, through the Tri-Party Agreement,

municipal, provincial and federal, we have been able to clean up our Exploits

River. We now have one of the cleanest rivers, we have the best salmon-fishing

river in North America, and we have the best drinking water.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave.

MS THISTLE: When you pick up a glass of water in Grand

Falls - Windsor now, it almost has a bluish cast on it. For years and years, we

had to actually go up the road with a bucket and get water from a well, a

spring, but now we are so proud - remember, it was in the 1970s and early 1980s.

But now, with this Tri-Party Agreement in place we have one of the cleanest

drinking waters in the Province and we have the cleanest river. And this is why

you have a new industry developed now, white-river rafting on the Exploits,

where you can actually take a trip after sunset, or before sunset, you can have

an overnight trip, you have the best food, the best of entertainment. So this is

a way people are helping themselves. But, like you say, you need the

infrastructure in place, you need communities co-operating one with the other,

and you need us, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, believing in ourselves,

that we can go ahead and do something.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: That's the spirit!

MS THISTLE: That is right. This is our opportunity of a

lifetime, this summer. This is our opportunity of a lifetime. We, as

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, have to put on the best show we have ever put

on. We want to go out and proclaim that we have something the rest of the world

does not have, and we want to market it in the best way. I am sure, all members

in this House agree that we have something the rest of the world does not have

and we should do our best, our co-operative best, in making sure the whole world

knows it and join with me in promoting our Province to be the best this year.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly happy today to take

part in this exchange and

in supporting this particular resolution brought forward by the Member for

Topsail.

Mr. Speaker, we can get into all kinds of arguments whether

there is something more important than this or whether there is something more

pressing, but I am going to be positive today. I am going to throw a few

bouquets, Mr. Speaker, and I am going to speak in a very positive way. Because

this is a very positive celebration, Mr. Speaker. We are celebrating our

homeland. We are celebrating the work of our forefathers, our grandfathers and

all those us before us, who have worked so hard to make this wonderful Province

what it is today.

I am just as proud to be a Newfoundlander, I say, as any

member in this House - just as proud. I had to leave the Province a good many

times to find a job to try to support my family, but my heart was always back

here, and I always returned.

MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: I probably will, I say to the minister.

But no matter where I go, I will not be unlike anybody else in this House. This

is where I will want to live by choice, Mr. Speaker. There is no better place in

this world.

There was a little pamphlet that was put out a few days ago.

It was called: The Matthew Landfall, Bonavista, June 24-26 1997. "History

repeats itself. Celebrate the adventure." I have read this pamphlet a couple of

times, and it certainly gives a lot of information. It is a really good

pamphlet, well-put-together, well-constructed, and I would recommend it to

anybody. In fact, I have only read one book that was published prior to this

that provided more information, and that was the one read last night by the

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. That is about the only book that provides

more information than this particular book here, I say to the minister. As much

as he made fun of it, there are some good recipes there, and I made note of them

last night. My wife is trying some of them today.

Let me read a couple of lines from the pamphlet. It reads:

"The Matthew Arrival.

"On June 24, 1997, a small ship will appear on the horizon.

Square-rigged sails will billow with light as prevailing winds bring the tiny

oak caravel steadily towards Bonavista... Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and His

Royal Highness, Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh will be there for the

landfall, a recreation of a journey sponsored by Queen Elizabeth II's ancestor,

King Henry VII, in 1497....

"Canada's newest National Historic Site comes to life June

24, 1997. At the Ryan Premises, catch the flavour of one of the most important

fisheries in the New World. The sounds, the sights, the smells - "

MR. EFFORD: A point of order!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture on a point of order.

MR. EFFORD: I do not want to interrupt the hon. the

Member for Bonavista South but, Mr. Speaker, I have lost my pickle book. The

Tories have taken my pickle book. It was in my desk last night.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

"The sounds, the sights, the smells of a 500-year old

industry that changed history.

"This is where James Ryan established his salt-fish

enterprise, exporting fish to Portugal, Spain, Italy and the West Indies. Today,

the beautifully restored buildings and shops, and a collection of literally

hundreds of carefully preserved artifacts, commemorate the East Coast Fishery. A

cast of theatrical performers and guides bring this living museum to life.

Experience the past. Visit our history, at the Ryan Premises National Historic

Site at Bonavista."

Then, it goes on to say:

"Celebrating Our Culture.

"All the big names. All in Bonavista. Bristol's Hope, Great

Big Sea, the Irish Descendants, Kim Stockwood, Buddy Wasisname and the Other

Fellers. There's no better place to catch the spirit of music, comedy and

performance in Newfoundland and Labrador today. The Masterless Men..., The

Sharecroppers and much more! Four days of great entertainment.

"See our world through someone else's eyes."

Listen to this one, Mr. Speaker.

"Lots To Enjoy.

"The Cape Bonavista Lighthouse, a lovingly preserved museum

for all to enjoy. The classic red and white building sits on a wind-swept,

grassy cape. Blue-green ocean spray foams around the rugged coastline far below,

while woolly sheep roam bright green meadows. It is a visually stunning place."

"John Cabot's voyage was one of ambition and courage. Imagine

six weeks at sea in a small boat with 18 other men headed for the Far East along

a route nobody really believed existed. Headed, almost surely, to the edge of

the earth. Cabot's now famous words, `O'Buona Vista' Oh Happy Sight, may have

been the truest ever uttered."

This year, the beautiful historic town of Bonavista will be

the focal point of not only North America but of the whole world. I understand

that there is a street with the capability of handling twenty to twenty-five

tractor-trailers going to be cordoned off especially for a communications crew,

television, radio, Mr. Speaker, the biggest event that has ever happened here in

this Province.

Mr. Speaker, we hear people, the news media, talking about

the fear of lack of accommodations. Let me put everybody's mind at rest right

here and now. There will be no lack of accommodations on the Bonavista

Peninsula. Anybody coming who wants a place to stay may not be able to be put up

in a first-class hotel, may not be able to be put right on the beach, but I can

assure you, they will have perfect accommodations, suitable accommodations, and

will enjoy the hospitality of that whole peninsula. The whole area is a-buzz

with enthusiasm. I have never seen so many people coming forward before and

wanting to volunteer to be part of this celebration.

Mr. Speaker, the celebrations got off to a little bit of a

rocky start. We all remember what happened in the dark days of the beginning of

those celebrations, but that is all behind us now. We all learned from that and

we put responsibility of planning the event, we put the responsibility for being

responsible to the event, exactly where it should have been in the beginning,

and that is in the hands of volunteers, in the hands of local people. People

have come forward and accepted that responsibility, and with the guidance of the

Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, and some other government

departments, I can assure you that they are well prepared, and anybody coming to

the Bonavista Peninsula to take

part in those celebrations will not be

disappointed.

I understand the Matthew set sail just a few days ago

from Bristol, England, is presently in a port in Ireland, en route to Bonavista

for June 24th. I understand there is a flotilla of yachts leaving Ontario,

leaving the Great Lakes, en route to Bonavista for June 24th., and I would

suggest that you are going to see a lot of people with boats here in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. EFFORD: Yes, Sir.

MR. FITZGERALD: Maybe the Companion might be among

that flotilla of yachts, and I have no doubt that it will be. I would welcome

him as well, and I would welcome each and every one of the members here in this

House to make it a date, to set June 24th aside to be in Bonavista to help

celebrate with the rest of the world.

People know my views on the monarchy. People know my views on

what I think of this particular arm of government, I suppose, if you would, but

all of that being put aside, with the Queen's arrival in Bonavista, it is

certainly going to be an historic day.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you shaking hands with the Queen?

MR. FITZGERALD: I hope I have the privilege of shaking

hands with the Queen, yes.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: I hope I do, Mr. Speaker.

This celebration will not only be for 1997. If this

celebration is just for one year, then it is not worth the time and effort being

put into it. What we have to do is to be cognizant of the people we have here

and to showcase this beautiful Province and our people, to make those people do

one of two things: either to have them leave and want to come back, or have them

leave as goodwill ambassadors to tell other people of the wonderful things we

have here to offer, and encourage their friends and neighbours, and their

associates, to come and visit us right here in this beautiful, happy Province.

I spoke about the volunteers; now I will touch on a couple of

departments here in government. I say to the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs: Thank you for the dollars you have put down to respond to

some of the needs that we have had in Bonavista. Thank you for providing some

extra money to clean up O'Dea's Pond. Thank you for the pavement. Thank you for

helping make this celebration a success.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: To the Minister of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation, thank you, Minister, for your -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: You did not do it for me, you did it for

the people on the Bonavista Peninsula.

To the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation: I

compliment her for making trips to Bonavista, taking

part in what is happening

down there today and giving the volunteers encouragement and making them feel

part of the celebrations. I thank her, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Environment and Labour, Mr. Speaker, for his

commitment in coming to Bonavista, meeting with the council, meeting with me and

responding to a need in that particular town. We still have lots of needs there,

some of them will be addressed this year, more of them, I am sure, will be

looked after next year with the persistence of the member and the councils and

the people who work there, so that we can not only celebrate Bonavista and the

surrounding communities in 1997, but on into the millennium as well.

Mr. Speaker, I spoke about Bonavista and everybody will know

if they visited Bonavista, it is one of the most beautiful towns with historic

facilities in this particular town that you have ever seen in Newfoundland and

Labrador. I remember being the mayor of my town and I had this mind-set that,

everything that was old should have been torn down, and that was one of the jobs

that I took on as mayor - this had to go, something else had to go, clean up the

community. But, God bless the people in Bonavista that they did not have that

mentality, their mayors, their councillors and their town leaders. They saw fit

to maintain what they had and to restore it and now, to show-case it in 1997.

Port Union is another prime example, I say to the member

opposite; Port Union, Catalina, King's Cove - King's Cove, one of the most

historic little towns in all of Newfoundland and Labrador. They have this little

celebration there every year which is called: The Lighthouse Festival and the

theme is around a 100-year-old lighthouse; and they have an Ecumenical Service

held outdoors every year. And it is one of the most touching events that I

attend in the many town days and the many fire-department celebrations and

farmers' days and everything else, this is probably one of the most touching

days and the one that I make sure I attend. Because everybody in the whole

community gets out, young and old alike, everybody is involved and it is a

special celebration.

That particular town, this year, is having a celebration in

conjunction with the Cabot 500 Celebrations as well. The Matthew will not

be going there but that does not matter. The Matthew does not go

everywhere. But they are having their own celebration and I can assure you that

they will attract hundreds and hundreds of people for their four-day event,

going on up around to Catalina, Port Union and Melrose, all those communities,

Mr. Speaker, are doing something to take

part in this particular celebration.

But it is not only about the Bonavista Peninsula.

The Member for Grand Falls - Buchans stood up and talked

about the things that are happening in her town because those communities are

doing something to help celebrate as well. People will be travelling right

across the entire Province; in Labrador, as well, down in Red Bay, people are

going to be celebrating. They are going to be out saying: Thank you; and they

are going to be out and saying: This is where we are from, this is what we are

all about, this is the place that we love.

Mr. Speaker, I have done a fair amount of travelling around

and since I have been fortunate enough to serve here in this House -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave, by leave.

MR. EFFORD: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member has been denied leave.

MR. FITZGERALD: Just a couple of minutes to clue up, I

say to the minister.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member has been denied leave, I ask

him to take his seat.

MR. FITZGERALD: I do not have your pickle book.

So, Mr. Speaker -

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. member to take his seat, he

has been denied leave.

MR. FITZGERALD: May I have a few minutes of your time?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, just a few minutes to clue

up and I will not belabour it.

A lot of people talk about the weather. You know, it is

probably going to rain the day that the Queen comes. Well, boys, forget the

weather, there is nothing we can do about it, let us not worry about it. The

people who are putting forward the celebrations are prepared for all that and if

it rains, so what? It may dampen the ground but I can assure you, it will not

dampen the spirits of Newfoundland and Labrador. So let us pull together. Let us

be positive about this celebration. There is enough of negativity out there now,

Mr. Speaker.

When you see volunteers involved, when you see the volunteers

in your communities putting forward as much time and effort as volunteers have

done for this celebration, then at least, Mr. Speaker, we, as community leaders,

we, as representatives of our districts, the least we can do is be positive and

reach out and help them along the way. So let us celebrate. We will see you in

Bonavista on June 24th and there will be a berth for the Companion to tie

up right at the wharf on the main front.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. CANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I first want to congratulate the Member for

Topsail for this non-partisan resolution. Mr. Speaker, I need to read this just

to express how non-partisan this particular resolution was. It says;

"WHEREAS our Provinces is celebrating the 500th year of

discovery of Newfoundland and Labrador by John Cabot; and

WHEREAS there has been terrific effort gone into the

promotion and planning for the celebration of this important milestone in our

province's, indeed, the nation's, history; and

WHEREAS Members of this Honourable house play a significant

leadership role in their districts and collectively for the Province;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that all Members of this Honourable

House actively promote these celebrations and help build on our tourism strength

so we can make this year the biggest tourism year ever for this Province."

Now, Mr. Speaker, there has never been a more non-partisan

resolution written. Now, why do I say it is non-partisan? Well, I took a few

moments to reflect upon the Blue Book. Now, what does the Blue Book say about

tourism and tourism policy? It said - and I agree with some of the things it

said - now, the tourism policy said `a PC government will highlight local talent

and resources and celebrate in 1997 John Cabot 500th Anniversary.' Mr. Speaker,

that is a noble statement and we all agree with that in this House. It also said

we should aggressively promote and prepare for tourism opportunities associated

with the Cabot anniversary, the Canada Winter Games, the 50th anniversary of

Newfoundland and Labrador entry into Confederation and the 1000th anniversary of

the Viking landing. Mr. Speaker, again that just goes to show that tourism

really is a non-partisan industry, but I can tell you, we have a tourism

minister who has put her heart and soul into making sure this indeed is the best

tourism year in the history of this Province, bar none.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, is that the Cabot

500th celebrations have begun this year and have begun in earnest. I should talk

about, in Labrador West, the Northern Lights Festival. We brought in during that

festival - the minister was there, I was there and many other dignitaries were

there - we had the Labrador 400th sled dog race, an international sled dog race.

There were racer from all over North America.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) in Labrador West.

MR. CANNING: Absolutely. We had all kinds of music and

shows for people throughout the community celebrating the winter reality of

living in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, it was just a tremendous expression of

community voluntarism, community sporting events, community pride. I should say

to the Member for Bonavista South how much I appreciate the volunteers

throughout all of our Province, who work, very handily and heartily, spent a lot

of their time that they could have chosen to spend on other things but they

spend it in making sure this is the best year for tourism in this Province. They

spend many, many hours in the evening after work, in the morning, during

weekends, on Sunday mornings when they could be with their family doing other

things. They spend it making sure that events sponsored for this Province this

year will be the very best in the country.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the facts are clear. The Minister of

Tourism, Culture and Recreation has spent a lot of hours, her department has

spent a lot of hours, under some trying times, to make sure that all members of

the House can share in the pride of the Cabot 500 celebrations. This is

obviously a great opportunity to talk about this. We will soon be closing the

House for the summer, as we all know. We will be going through this summer and

the Matthew visit as it circumnavigates the Island and goes to Labrador

to celebrate that trip that John Cabot made some 500 years ago. It is a

marvellous expression of the European connection with this Island and, in fact,

all of North America.

Mr. Speaker, I am very impressed with the Member for Topsail

that he had chosen such a non-partisan resolution, because we know that the

Member for Topsail is such a non-partisan kind of guy. He always speaks clearly,

openly, and with pride in all of this Province, and I stand today with a great

deal of pride in support of this gentleman's resolution.

Mr. Speaker, Labrador, although John Cabot may not have - who

knows, he may have - come to Labrador -

AN HON. MEMBER: Not Labrador West.

MR. CANNING: He certainly didn't come to Labrador West,

that is right, but we all share in the pride of what it is to be a part of this

Province and a part of this important celebration.

I think there are times when we can lightly talk about our

history and what it has meant for this trip to have occurred 500 years ago, but

I think we all should know how important it is as a province, as a people, that

we have this collective attachment to history, that during probably a stormy

season - who knows what it was like to come across the ocean when you had no

radar, no sonar, nothing. You just blindly headed out to sea and hoped to touch

some far-away land.

Mr. Speaker, that spirit that guided John Cabot to leave

England some 500 years ago, I believe, is still alive and well today in this

Province, the spirit of wanting to overcome all the odds, to prosper, to provide

more opportunity and benefits to the people, to create and generate

opportunities that some may believe are just dreams.

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative Party, I must say, although

they only gave priority to the completion of an all-weather highway across

Labrador, they did see the benefit to highlight local talent and resources in

celebrating the 1997 John Cabot Anniversary, and the fact that they committed

to, in their campaign - although some of them tell me they have not read this

book. I am going to Xerox off a number of copies to ensure my hon. friends

across the way have a copy of the document that they stood under the banner of

during the last election. It is kind of a little shocking that they have not

read it, but not surprising.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that the 500 Celebrations

will bring people from probably around the world to this Province. It will give

us a great opportunity to show the benefits of people coming here to take

advantage of sightseeing, to take advantage of being out on the water watching

whales, to take a look at the picturesque communities and landscape around, to

participate in the communities of Newfoundland and Labrador. This will bring

huge amounts of tourism dollars, dollars that will flow to hotels and

restaurateurs, will flow to airlines, will flow to all kinds of sightseeing

entrepreneurs, will give them an opportunity to build a strong base for their

companies of the future, will employ young Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. I

should add, too, that some 8,000 students who are hopefully going to be hired

this year will be an important contribution to Newfoundland and Labrador as we

put all our shoulders against the wheel and make sure this is the very best -

the very best - summer season, tourism season, ever.

Mr. Speaker, there has been an awful lot of work and, as I

said earlier, an awful lot of it has been done by a young, dynamic minister who

just got elected this last election, from Gander, who has worked diligently,

worked thoroughly, put in a solid performance to help put together the plans for

this marvellous celebration. Before her there was another Minister of Tourism

who worked equally hard as a build up to 1997, to make sure that all the pieces

of the puzzle were put together to ensure a strong and steady tourism season

this year.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the members resolution talks about the

leadership role of members in their communities and how important it is for them

to help celebrate and pursue the celebration of Cabot's 500th anniversary

journey to Newfoundland and Labrador. It says that members of this hon. House

play a significant leadership role. That is true, we would hope that members

opposite would play their leadership role to show the benefits of tourism and

other opportunities that flow to our Province rather than being negative. They

should show some confidence in our ability to challenge the best, in this case

the best that is offered in tourism and when.

I was impressed and I appreciated the comments by my friend

from Bonavista South when he talked about wanting to be positive, he wanted to

sound positive. It was a little unbecoming, but it sounded good that the member

from Bonavista South was able to sound positive. He was hard pressed at times to

sound positive, but he did. I appreciated that he invited us down.

Mr. Speaker, I have just been told by the hon. Minister of

Education that another great part of the equation of tourism is the fact that

Canada just won the world championship, two to one over Sweden.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker, that certainly is another

moment to celebrate.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I think that -

AN HON. MEMBER: People will want to come here now and

stay in our parks.

MR. CANNING: Exactly, people will want to come here and

stay in our parks.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the other thing that we should talk about

in the Cabot 500th celebrations is the fact that the Minister of Tourism is

ensuring that the parks that were going to be passed over to others to manage,

to operate are being done in such a profoundly important way that ensures that

they will be available for the tourists that will flow to this Province this

year. Mr. Speaker, she and her staff have dedicated themselves to ensuring that

people have parks if they want to park in parks or have places to stay in terms

of hotel rooms. There is lots of room, space available on ferries, there is

space available in hotels and everything. We should be getting the message out

and make sure that people believe and understand that everything is not filled

up, that there is lots of room for those who wish to travel here and help us to

enjoy this Cabot 500th season.

MR. J. BYRNE: Where? Here.

MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member from Cape St.

Francis asked me where. Mr. Speaker, the member from Cape St. Francis usually

spends a lot of time researching his issues, he usually is the best most

researched member in the House on the Opposition side.

MR. J. BYRNE: What?

MR. CANNING: The member from Cape. St. Francis is usually

the most researched member on the Opposition side. Usually, he never asks why or

how, he knows those things, he usually tells us, now he is asking where there

are places to stay. Mr. Speaker, I am just shocked and surprised and I hope that

the next polls do not reflect his lack of research on this very important issue,

but it may, you never know. There are no guarantees in this life and I must say

we missed him the last few days, where he really did have a chance to make a few

gains in his poll, but he just failed to show up.

Mr. Speaker, just in closing though I would like to wish all

members in their ridings a great tourism season. All jokes aside this is a

magnificently important season that many of our people in all of our ridings

will have a chance to participate in the workforce this year and some for the

first time in a while. Many students I am sure will be hired and will have a few

dollars to take back to University and College.

I wish all members would take it upon themselves to make sure

that this is the very best tourism season ever in this Province. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Barrett): The hon. the Member for Conception

Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in support of this

particular motion. I won't take too much of the House's time. As a matter of

fact, I will only take a couple of minutes. But this summer Softball

Newfoundland in conjunction with Softball of Canada are going to be hosting the

World Youth Tournament in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, of course

at the Caribou Complex. Again, it is all part of the Cabot celebrations.

We invite everybody to turn out for this particular event. It

will see - right now I think the figure is at some thirteen countries, one of

which is Canada. So we are going to be bringing in twelve countries from around

this world. Nobody needs to convince me of the benefit of tourism, and

especially the benefit of sport to tourism. We all go back to 1994 when we

brought some twenty-six countries into this Province and they had a great time.

They saw a lot of this Province. When they were here you couldn't get a hotel

room and you couldn't rent a boat and you couldn't rent a car. It was just a

great thing for this Province. So of course we are in support of this motion.

Everybody in this Province hopes that our Cabot celebrations are a huge success.

So thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port au Port.

MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to have an

opportunity to rise in support of the resolution which stands in the name of my

friend the Member for Topsail. Obviously from the remarks that we have heard

here in this hon. House this afternoon it is a resolution which I feel confident

will be supported unanimously in this hon. House.

It is interesting that on an occasion such as this - I recall

just a few years ago in 1992 when we were marking the quincentennial of the

discovery of North America by Christopher Columbus. An event by any standards,

certainly historically significant. But it is interesting the kinds of issues

that arise surrounding what seems on the surface to be a fairly straightforward

event. The Members of this House would probably recall that at the Columbus

discovery the concerns that were expressed with the introduction of Christianity

into the New World, and the impact it had on the aboriginal peoples. It kind of

detracted from the celebration.

Similarly, as we mark the 500th anniversary of the discovery

of our own Province by John Cabot, we hear in some circles as well the same

issues being raised. For example, we get people asking the question: Well, first

of all, was Cabot indeed the first European to arrive here? In recent years

there is some research that would certainly bring into question whether in fact

he was the first European to arrive in this part of the New World.

Also, we certainly, in some quarters, among our aboriginal

peoples, have some expression of concern. I think that there is no questioning,

no one can deny the fact that they were very much in evidence in this part of

the world long before the arrival of the Europeans. Also, I guess, we certainly

hear from the West Coast of the Province. It has been documented and

historically established that the Vikings made a landfall and indeed established

a settlement on the northern tip of the West Coast of the Province some 500

years prior to the acknowledged arrival of the Europeans.

But the bottom line is that really it doesn't matter an awful

lot. What we are doing in this year - we do know that 500 years ago John Cabot

did make landfall somewhere here in this part of the North American continent.

I'm sure that everyone in this hon. House has no doubt at all that that landfall

was indeed Cape Bonavista. The important thing, and the thing that we recognize

and should keep in mind is that what we are acknowledging here is that there was

a significant event which happened some 500 years ago when John Cabot and his

crew arrived in this part of the world and things changed forever. Things in

this part of the world were never the same again, and there is no question about

that. There is no denying that. If you reflect back over the course of those 500

ensuing years, it is significant to see what, indeed, has transpired in this

part of the world.

Why indeed, then, do we recognize it and choose to recognize

it? Because by any measure it is a significant event. It is not to detract from

the fact that the Aboriginal peoples were here long in advance of the arrival of

the Europeans. It is not to detract from the fact that the Vikings had made a

landfall here many hundreds of years earlier. The event, in and of itself, was

significant, and it is worthwhile that we do choose to mark it in this, the

500th year after it had occurred.

I think the fact that this Province, through the Department

of Tourism, has chosen, in this Cabot Celebration year, to engage and embark on

a significant and major tourism attraction and tourism season whereby we are

saying to all of the world: Come to Newfoundland. Come, see what we have to

offer. Come, meet our people. Come, get to know our customs and our values.

Come, share some time with us.

Mr. Speaker, the bottom line is, an event of this nature

provides our government and the Department of Tourism with a unique opportunity

to package what we do have here in this Province, to promote our Province to the

rest of the world; and while there is no question that there will be significant

benefits in this, the year of the Cabot 500 Celebrations, it is also equally

evident that these benefits will live on long into the future, and some of the

things that we will accomplish this year, some of the benefits that we will

achieve from this year, will have repercussions year after year after year.

Because it is a known fact in tourism that the best advertising you can get is

the advertising that you get from people who visit and leave and tell their

friends what they found and what they saw here in this new found land.

It will be important to us, especially as elected members,

those of us who have the privilege to sit in this hon. House at this point in

time representing our various jurisdictions, to make sure that we play a

prominent role in ensuring that these celebrations are indeed successful.

Mr. Speaker, in my own area of the Province, the area where I

reside, we are choosing in this year to indeed focus on what we see as being

things of significance to us, things that we have which we feel we would like to

share with other people, and there are two areas in which they fall. First of

all, I am very proud of the fact that the district I represent, as I have

indicated on different occasions in this hon. House, is the only bilingual

district on the Island portion of the Province, and it is the area of the

Province where the Francophones, who are descendants from among the earliest

Europeans to arrive in this area, in this Province, their descendants today live

on the Port au Port Peninsula and in Bay St. George generally, and especially in

my district of Port au Port. These people still, on a daily basis, in their

business, in their homes, the language that they use is the language of their

forefathers, that language brought over to this part of our Province by the

earliest French explorers and the earliest French settlers on that coast.

Mr. Speaker, the French fact in Port au Port, the French fact

in Bay St. George in the West Coast, indeed is a major part of our overall

tourism strategy, and we are using that to try to attract to our Province, and

specifically to our own area, in particular, people of French-speaking

persuasion, fellow Francophones from throughout North America and indeed the

world. We are asking them to come to the Port au Port Peninsula, to come to Bay

St. George and see for themselves the unique history and culture with the

European values brought over many years ago and, Mr. Speaker, by other values

which our society has been subjected to and we have been influenced by over the

intervening years. One of these in particular is the American influence which

that area of the Province experienced as well for some years. The American base

existed in Stephenville from the '40s through to the mid-'60s. Right now in the

Stephenville - Bay St. George area through the festival coast tourism committee

we are trying to capitalize on the fact that there was, for many years, this

strong American influence in our area. An influence, Mr. Speaker, which will

never be forgotten because many of the servicemen who served in that area of the

Province married local girls, moved back to the States and as a result there has

been this ongoing connection between our area and many of the American states.

Mr. Speaker, right now through the festival coast tourism

committee, we are centering much of our activity in that area around the idea of

the American influence in what is commonly referred to as the friendly invasion.

The fact that there were so many of our American friends who lived and worked

among us for so many years. Now many of the activities in the Stephenville area,

many of the tourism activities are geared towards and intended to attract back

many of these servicemen who were here years ago, their families who now live in

the States, to come back to visit with us and to relive some of those days when

the Stephenville area was a thriving community supported by an American base

with many American servicemen and many, many civilian employees that were drawn,

Mr. Speaker, from all areas of the Province.

So indeed it is significant to the whole of the Province.

There is no question that when the base operated in Stephenville the civilian

workforce that were employed there came from throughout this Province. Very

often today, Mr. Speaker, as I travel around the Province I meet people who

themselves or their fathers or grandfathers were at one time employed at the

American base and they can regale me with some of the stories and activities

that were ongoing back at that very significant time in the history of our

Province. But, Mr. Speaker, beyond the specific themes I think the thing that

stands out most in terms of promoting our Province in this the Cabot year, the

year of the Cabot celebrations is the fact that we are in many ways unique.

There is no doubt when you leave this Province, and I guess

to all of us - I am sure all of us from time to time have occasion to leave the

Province, to travel in some of the other provinces, that you are immediately

struck by the fact that some of the other provinces, especially some of the

other Atlantic provinces, perhaps do a little more in terms of promoting and

packaging what they have.

This has always impressed me, whenever I have had occasion to

visit the province of Prince Edward Island - it is a very small province and in

terms of what it has to offer, in terms of the natural resources that it has,

Mr. Speaker, it certainly is very, very small. On a scale I guess compared to

Newfoundland, you have to recognize that it certainly does not have the

advantages that we possess in this Province. Even in terms of the tourism, if

you travel the province of PEI you cannot be struck by the fact that it is

pretty well - not to be disrespectful of that province but it is fairly

monotonous. It is fairly flat and there are not a lot of distinguishing

features, unless you are impressed by the ocean and coming from Newfoundland, I

mean they need a little more than the ocean to impress you. Beyond that, the

thing that strikes you as you travel our province of Newfoundland is the kinds

of variety that you see, the beautiful mountains, the forests and the variety of

the trees but the one thing that really stands out, Mr. Speaker, is the fact

that our Province is still fairly pristine.

We are still somewhat unspoiled. We have been fortunate,

maybe in a way we have been spared by virtue of the fact that we have not and we

resisted the temptation to resort to a lot of these artificial attractions which

we find in areas like PEI, and I am personally impressed by the fact that we, as

a Province, as part of our strategy to bring people here, are not trying to

compete with provinces like PEI; we are not promoting things like the wax

museums or Ripley's Believe It Or Not, not that there is anything wrong with

these but, Mr. Speaker, we don't need that. The natural beauty that we have

here, the kinds of things that we have, eco-tourism, is the term now that

everybody subscribes to, that everyone follows.

This is a strength that we have and this is the sort of thing

I think that we need to continue to package and promote; to ensure that our

Province does remain unspoiled because people will want to come here to see what

in fact we do have and there no question, Mr. Speaker, that once they come here

and they have a chance to meet our people, they are bound to be impressed

certainly by the people and beyond that, there is no question, Mr. Speaker, that

they will be impressed by the land itself, by the variety that is here and the

fact that it is, as I said, still in a relatively pristine condition.

Mr. Speaker, I hear from time to time and I have heard it

raised in this honourable House, and I hear from people in my own district about

some of the disadvantages, and one of the things, Mr. Speaker, and I would like

to take advantage of this opportunity this afternoon just to raise it in this

forum. One of the things that I hear constantly being referred to as a drawback

to tourism in Newfoundland is the ferry service. Now there is no question that

it does pose some problems, there is no denying that, those of us who use the

ferry and I guess, perhaps those of us who are leaving the Island to go

elsewhere, it is probably more of a nuisance factor to us than it is very often

to people coming here.

Mr. Speaker, I submit, while we must fight and work to

maintain a good ferry service, a top notch service to the people coming to the

Province, we should also not lose sight of the fact that the markets that we are

going into, the people whom we are trying to attract, there are people out there

who will see in the idea of going to an area, an Island, that you have to get on

a ferry and travel for some six or seven hours to get to it, gives it somewhat

of a mystique, makes it somewhat special. It makes it somewhat of a special

destination and, Mr. Speaker, I contend that now, with the completion of the

fixed link to PEI, really, Newfoundland is now going to be the only Island in

this area that can truly have that distinction, and if you are coming now from

the other provinces of our own great country, or if you are coming from the

United States this is the sort of thing you want to do, Newfoundland is the

place to be.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SMITH: By leave, Mr. Speaker, just a minute to finish

up?

MR. SPEAKER: