British Columbia Hansard — Monday, March 4, 2002

H0304pm-18

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

P 3rd Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Monday, March 4, 2002 Afternoon Sitting Volume 3, Number 18 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 3RD SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council................................................................................. .........................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations.............................................................................. ..................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education ....................................................................................... ..................................Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................. ...........................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries.................................................................................... ..............................Hon.

John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations.............................................................. .................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development.................................................................................... ..............................Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.............................................................................. .................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services......................................................................... .................. Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter........................................................................................ .................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality ......................................................................................... .................................... Hon.

Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ............................................................................................. ............................................ Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines................................................................................................... ....................................... Hon.

Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance ............................................................................................................ ....................................................... Hon. Gary Collins Minister of Forests ............................................................................................................ .................................................. Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .................................................................................................... ............................................ Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.................................................................................................... ................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health ............................................................................................ ...................................Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................. Hon.

Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................... ............................................Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Management Services................................................................................................ .........................................Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue................................................................................................. ................................................Hon.

Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour...................................................................................... .............................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management.................................................................................... ..................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..................................................................................................... .................................................... Hon. Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection..................................................................................... ....................................Hon. Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................. ..............................................................

John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ....................................................................................................... ...........................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ........................................................................................... .............................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .............................................................................................. .........................................E.

George MacMinn Clerk Assistant ................................................................................................................ ................................................................... Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .................................................................................................. ........................................................ Ian D. Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees........................................................................................ ............................................Craig H.

James Committee Clerk................................................................................................................ ......................................................... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms ............................................................................................................... .........................................................A.A. Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................... ........................................

Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian.......................................................................................................... ............................................................. Joan A. Barton Legislative Comptroller ........................................................................................................ .................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hansard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. Internet: www.legis.gov.bc.ca/hansard

Party Standings: Liberal 76; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 1. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ....................................................................... Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L) .............................................................Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)............................................. Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L).........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L).................................................................................

North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................... East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind L) .................................................................. Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).................................................................................. Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).........................................Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L)......................................................................Victoria–Beacon H ill Brenzinger, Elayne (L) ...............................................................

Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L) ............................................................................Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L)................................................ Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L) ..........................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L)................................................................ Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) .............................................................

Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ........................................................................... Yale-L illooet Clark, Hon. Christy (L) ..................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ............................................................................. Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ........................................ Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L) .............................................. Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon.

Gary (L).........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L)....................................... Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................... Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L) ..................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .....................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L)......................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L) ............................................................ Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L).......................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L) ........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ...................................................................................Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)...................................................... North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)............................................................ Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L).............................................................. Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L).................................................

Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...............................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).......................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L) .......................................................................... Ch illiwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ...........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) ...................................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ..........................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) .............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ...................................................................................Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L) ........................................................... New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) ..........................................

West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (L).........................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L)...................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L)...................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L) ...............................................................Burnaby-W illingdon Orr, Sheila (L) ...........................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L).......................................................................

Ch illiwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ......................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon. Judith (L)............................................................Nanaimo-Parksv ille Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L) ................................................................

Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)..........................................................................Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).....................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L)..............................................West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon. Lynn (L) ........................................................................ Langley Stewart, Ken (L)...................................................... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L) ......................................................

Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L) ................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L)....................................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L) ..........................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon.

John (L) ................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L).................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).........................................................Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon. Katherine (L) ...................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)...........................................................................

Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman ..............................................Hon.

Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum.......................................................................G illian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ..............................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North..............................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon......................................................................

John Nuraney Burquitlam ........................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North ..................................................................................John Wilson Cariboo South .................................................................................... Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ............................................................................. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas .................................................................................

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .......................................................................... Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville .............................................................Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Delta North.......................................................................................... Reni Masi Delta South................................................................................

Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .................................................................................. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin...................................................................Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ....................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ........................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country...............................................................

John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ................................................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley ............................................................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca .....................................................................Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................... Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows .............................................................Ken Stewart Nanaimo..........................................................................................

Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville ...................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston.......................................................................Blair F. Suffredine New Westminster ..................................................................Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast ........................................................................................Bill Belsey North Island........................................................................................Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale.......................................... Hon.

Katherine Wh ittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head .......................................................................Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .................................................................... Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside.................................................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North .............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South .......................................................................

Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley ....................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................... Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood......................................................... Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast.......................................................... Harold Long Prince George North................................................................................Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................Hon.

Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre......................................................... Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East .......................................................................... Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ................................................................ Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands ............................................... Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................

Susan Brice Shuswap .............................................................................. Hon. George Abbott Skeena.............................................................................................Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................. Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ............................................................................... Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................. Hon.

Gulzar S. Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .......................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ...................................................................... Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock ...............................................................Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview............................................................... Hon.

Gary Co llins Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................................Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings .......................................................................Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington...................................................................Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara....................................................................Val J.

Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena............................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill.............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.................................................................................. Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary.................................................... Hon.

Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ..............................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .................................................................................. Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Monday, March 4, 2002 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members....................................................................................................... ............................................... 1433 Tributes....................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 1433 L.

Mayencourt Introduction and First Reading of Bills Gaming Control Act (Bill 6) .................................................................................................... ............................................................... 1433 Hon. R. Coleman Statements (Standing Order 25B) Trans-Canada Highway between Alberta border and Sicamous....................................................................... ............................... 1433 W.

McMahon Community development project at Simon Fraser University....................................................................... ................................... 1434 H. Bloy Firearm registry............................................................................................................... ........................................................................ 1434 D. MacKay Oral Questions Privatization of health care system............................................................................................ ........................................................... 1434 J.

MacPhail Hon. C. Hansen Government support for workers in health care system........................................................................... ......................................... 1435 J. Kwan Hon. C. Hansen Hon. G. Campbell School construction project in southeast Burnaby .............................................................................................................................. 1436 J. Nuraney Hon. C. Clark Elimination of Industry Training and Apprenticeship Commission................................................................. ............................... 1436 T.

Christensen Hon. S. Bond Petitions ...................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 1437 H. Bloy Motions without Notice......................................................................................................... .................................................. 1437 Hon. G. Collins J.

MacPhail Committee of the Whole House Vancouver Island Natural Gas Pipeline Amendment Act, 2002 (Bill 5)............................................................. .............................. 1438 Hon. R. Neufeld Report and Third Reading of Bills Vancouver Island Natural Gas Pipeline Amendment Act, 2002 (Bill 5)............................................................. .............................. 1438 Hon. R. Neufeld Budget Debate (continued) P.

Bell........................................................................................................................ ................................................................................ 1438 Hon. M. Coell .................................................................................................................. ........................................................................ 1441 K.

Krueger..................................................................................................................... ........................................................................... 1442

D. MacKay ...................................................................................................................... ......................................................................... 1446 R.

Sultan ...................................................................................................................... ............................................................................. 1448 Introductions by Members....................................................................................................... ............................................... 1452 Budget Debate (continued) T.

Christensen................................................................................................................. ......................................................................... 1452 B. Bennett ..................................................................................................................... ............................................................................ 1454 W.

Cobb........................................................................................................................ ............................................................................ 1458 Hon. G. Cheema ................................................................................................................. ..................................................................... 1460 Hon. G.

Collins................................................................................................................ ........................................................................ 1461 Motions on Notice Access to justice services (continued)......................................................................................... .......................................................... 1462 Introductions by Members....................................................................................................... ............................................... 1463 Throne Speech Debate (continued) Hon.

J. van Dongen............................................................................................................. .................................................................... 1463 Hon. C. Hansen ................................................................................................................. ...................................................................... 1465 R. Visser...................................................................................................................... .............................................................................. 1468 L.

Mayencourt .................................................................................................................. ....................................................................... 1472 J. Les......................................................................................................................... ................................................................................. 1476

1433 MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Introductions by Members D. Hayer: It gives me great pleasure to introduce 42 students and teachers from grades 10 and 11 visiting this House today. Half of the students are from a school in my riding, Fraser Valley Christian High, and half are visiting from Quebec. Would the House please make these students and their teachers very welcome today. J. MacPhail: It gives me pleasure to introduce one of my constituents, Mike Old, who is visiting in the gallery today.

He is amongst a group of people who provide great health care at Royal Jubilee Hospital, Victoria General Hospital, Gorge Road Hospital, Queen Alexandra, Saanich Peninsula General Hospital and Sunset Lodge. They are largely women — and lots of men — w h o p r o v i d e g o o d h e a l t h c a r e e a c h a n d every day. Would the House please make them wel- come. [1405] Tributes MAY GUTTERIDGE L. Mayencourt: I rise to note the passing of May Gutteridge. May Gutteridge was a wonderful individ- ual who worked in the downtown east side for the last 40 years. She created the St.

James Social Service Soci- ety and was responsible for the creation of May's Place, a hospice in the downtown east side. May received the Order of Canada a few years ago. She is a great hero to many of us who have worked in community services down there. I just ask the House to join me in express- ing our condolences to her family. Introduction and First Reading of Bills GAMING CONTROL ACT Hon. R. Coleman presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Gam- ing Control Act. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that the bill be read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R.

Coleman: I am pleased to introduce Bill 6, the Gaming Control Act. This bill will provide the leg- islative framework necessary to bring stability to the gaming industry. It will ensure a carefully regulated gaming environment and will ensure the integrity of gaming in British Columbia. My ministry conducted a review, and our review identified a number of inefficiencies in the manage- ment of gaming in British Columbia and indicated the need for restructuring. It highlighted a need for a com- prehensive legislative framework.

The proposed Gam- ing Control Act will bring all sectors of gaming under one comprehensive piece of legislation. It will replace the Lottery Act, the Lottery Corporation Act, the Horse Racing Act and the Horse Racing Tax Act. The bill will establish a statutory authority for some functions not currently legislated. For example, it will give us the ability to conduct audits and investigations. The bill will provide British Columbians with assur- ances that management of gaming is fair, open and transparent.

I move that Bill 6 be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 6 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY BETWEEN ALBERTA BORDER AND SICAMOUS W. McMahon: Today I would like to bring to the attention of my colleagues once again a stretch of highway that is of significant importance to not only the Columbia River–Revelstoke riding but the entire province: the Trans-Canada Highway between Si- camous and the Alberta border. This highway plays a vital role in our province's economy. Every day transport trucks travel this highway through Kicking Horse Canyon and the Rogers Pass, bringing goods and services into British Columbia and exporting some of our goods and services to the rest of the country.

It is the first impression tourists from the east have when they drive into British Columbia and the last road they travel on their way home. It is our lifeline to Alberta and to the east. In a nation that still relies heavily on its road infra- structure, this highway keeps us connected. It passes through some of the most beautiful areas this province has to offer and can be a joy to travel as a tourist or as a resident. Unfortunately, it can also be treacherous. I won't mince words when it comes to this issue.

The threat of avalanche, combined with low visibility and a narrow winding highway, can be downright danger- ous if not driven with extreme care. Horrific accidents have claimed lives on this highway. We've all heard about them before. Safety is our number one concern. It has to be. Re- cently, the Minister of Transportation and I met with the committee in Revelstoke for a Safe Trans-Canada Highway to hear of the firsthand concerns that my constituents have. I know safety tops the minister's

1434 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 priority list, and I know all stakeholders from Rev- elstoke all the way to Golden and beyond to the Al- berta border share that same priority. So do I. I am committed to working with the minister, the federal government and all groups to ensure that we have the safest highway possible to carry our friends and our neighbours and our families through the mountains. We've started a new era in British Columbia that will entice people to come to our beautiful province, lay roots and start families.

However, when they first arrive and every time they return, I want to make sure the entrance to our province contains not only a warm welcome but a safe journey. [1410] COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AT SIMON FRASER UNIVERSITY H. Bloy: I am pleased to have this opportunity to share some information regarding a very exciting ini- tiative about to get underway in my riding of Burquit- lam. This summer construction is about to begin on a complete new community being undertaken by Simon Fraser University on Burnaby Mountain.

This commu- nity, to be developed over the next 25 years, could eventually house over 10,000 people with a wide vari- ety of housing not only for faculty, staff and students but also for anyone else wanting to live on Burnaby Mountain next to a world-class university. In addition to housing, the community will include a vibrant new commercial street along with new schools, parks and a full array of community and recreational facilities.

In undertaking this community development, the university has two major objectives: firstly, to help transform Simon Fraser University from a commuter destination to a community and, secondly, to create a financial endowment in support of a variety of pur- poses at the university. The project is being managed by Burnaby Moun- tain Community Corp., headed by Mr. Michael Geller. This is a separate entity with an experienced staff and a knowledgable board of directors. It will be a financially sustainable community.

Financing is being arranged by the university without any funding requests from the provincial government. I am confident that the new community at Simon Fraser University will be innova- tive, forward-looking and a very attractive place to live, work and learn. It represents the benefits which can come from a partnership between the public and private sectors. I am confident that it will reflect posi- tively not only on the university and the city of Bur- naby but on the entire province. FIREARM REGISTRY D.

MacKay: What I'd like to do today is take the House back to December 6, 1989, and more specifically to the city of Montreal, because on that date a young man by the name of Marc Lepine walked into the Uni- versity of Montreal and shot 24 people and killed 14 young women. The shock and horror of that day was felt right across the country, Mr. Speaker, and that shooting in Montreal resulted in a federal bill more commonly known as Bill C-68. That bill requires all gun owners across this country to register their fire- arms by January 1, 2003.

It is wrong to think that the registering of firearms will prevent another tragedy that we saw back in Montreal. It's not guns that kill people; it's people. Sev- eral provinces challenged the federal government's legality of Bill C-68 but not the province of British Co- lumbia under the previous administration. The Criminal Code of Canada has provisions to deal with people such as the man that shot and killed all those young women in Montreal. We've had a handgun registration in this country since 1934, and today people are still killed with handguns.

We have now spent close to $650 million on the registration process for long rifles in this country, and I suspect a large number of people will not register their firearms by the deadline of January 1. In closing, I would like to express my personal dis- approval of the thoughts that the registration of fire- arms will prevent another tragic event. I would like to remind the House that the tragic events of September 11 and the loss of thousands of lives were not carried out with firearms, but in fact those lives were lost be- cause of the actions of a few people armed with box cutters.

Oral Questions PRIVATIZATION OF HEALTH CARE SYSTEM J. MacPhail: Today is a day that we should all mark on our calendars, because today is the day that British Columbians for the very first time ever know the full extent of this government's broken health care promise. It's a tale of documents: the New Era document and the new briefing book of the Minister of Health Services. It's a private and confidential budget briefing book that was kept hidden from the public until today. [1415] The New Era document promises a renewed public health care system.

The minister's confidential budget briefing book outlines an agenda of massive privatiza- tion and for-profit health care. To the Minister of Health Services: will the minister finally admit what his own confidential briefing book is saying over and over again — that the Premier did not tell the truth to British Columbians in the election about his hidden for-profit plan for health care? Hon. C. Hansen: We were very clear to the public of British Columbia that we were going to maintain a health care budget and protect health care services across British Columbia.

Our agenda as a government is to make sure we put patients first for the first time in 11 years in British Columbia. Our agenda is to make sure every health dollar spent is there to maximize the benefit to patients, not the benefit to a group of work- ers — not to make the health care system the employer

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1435 of last resort but to make sure we have the appropriate number of health care professionals and support staff in place and we are compensating them fairly in rela- tionship to other jurisdictions in Canada so that we can ensure the needs of British Columbians get met. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition with a supplementary question. J. MacPhail: The Minister of Health Services and the Premier can hide from the truth, but they can't avoid the reality of their own document.

The Minister of Health Services's own briefing book lays it out in gory detail for all British Columbians to see. In the New Era, the Premier promised he would reduce wait-lists. H e s ai d we d i d n't h av e e no u g h ho s p i t al b e d s , b u t t he minister's secret briefing book states very clearly that wait-lists will actually grow. It says that hospital beds will close.

To the Minister of Health Services: will the minister please stop the charade, stop pitting one worker against the other, admit what everyone now knows and finally own up to the truth about this govern- ment's plan to dismantle public health care and turn it over to the for-profit sector? Hon. C. Hansen: What we inherited from the pre- vious government was a track we were on that was going to destroy public health care in British Columbia. The commitment we have made is that we will save public health care in British Columbia, but we're not going to do that by maintaining the status quo.

We have seen wait-lists in this province grow every single year since before she was a Health minister in this province. We are determined to come to grips with some of the challenges in health care, to make sure we get the best value for health care dollars spent so those dollars can be focused on patient care and the needs of British Columbians wherever they live in this province. We're not going to do that by continuing the legacy they brought to health care while they were in office. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition with a further supplementary. J.

MacPhail: The issue here is what this govern- m e n t s a i d t h e y w e r e g o i n g t o d o i n t h e i r New Era document and what the minister's own private briefing book demonstrates: the reality of their for-profit health care agenda. The secret document also says that 14,000 health care workers are going to lose their jobs to pave the way for privatization, for for-profit health care. The briefing book says that over $700 million worth of ser- vices are going to be privatized. Someone will be mak- ing huge profits, but no one will be getting better health care.

The government's health care plans are about ideology, not about patient care. Will the minister please come clean and admit that his plan for health care for B.C. is not about putting patients first but is about putting corporate profits first? [1420] Hon. C. Hansen: There are no targets when it comes to the number of support staff that may be re- duced throughout the health care system in British Columbia. There are no targets.

What we have said to the health authorities is that they have inherited a sys- tem that pays some of the highest wages in Canada by far — 30 percent higher than the Canadian average of support workers. Is that good value for the health dol- lars? Is that meeting the needs of patients?

What we have said to the health authorities is that they have the flexibility now to perhaps contract out if they wish, but perhaps they can sit down with the shop stewards and the unions in their communities and say: "How can we better utilize available health dollars to meet the needs of patients in British Columbia?" That's our priority. That's our focus. That's how we're going to meet the needs of patients in this province, not the way the previous government did. GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR WORKERS IN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM J.

Kwan: Prior to the election, the Premier was asked if a 48-year-old housekeeper who's finally earn- ing the average wage in British Columbia has anything to fear from the Liberal government. The Premier said: "I say no. She's going to find the quality of work she's able to do is more rewarding and fulfilling." We now know he wasn't telling the truth. Joining us in the gallery today is a 48-year-old health care worker who believed the Premier's prom- ise.

The Premier won't admit to British Columbians that he wasn't telling the truth about his plans, but maybe the Premier will now look this woman in her eyes and tell her the same thing. Hon. C. Hansen: The message from this govern- ment has been consistent. The message is that we want to first of all put the interests of patients first. We rec- ognize the importance of having the appropriate num- b e r o f h e a l t h c a r e w o r k e r s i n t h i s p r o v i n c e w h o a r e doing the job of delivering on that patient care. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. C.

Hansen: We're not going to hire twice as many staff as is necessary. We're not going to go to wage rates that are considerably higher than any other province in Canada. We want to be competitive. We want to make sure we manag e the health care budget wisely so that we can deliver on patient care. I think every British Columbian can work with us in doing that, because it's in the interest of preserving a publicly funded health care system that we get our costs under control and that we make sure the health care system is sustainable into the future.

Otherwise, we will not be able to protect the public health care system we cherish so much.

1436 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant with a supplementary question. J. Kwan: The question is to the Premier. The gov- ernment's New Era document has been shown to be empty and meaningless. The Premier promised to re- new the public health care system, but we now know that in the backrooms, in the secret document, he plans to destroy it. Will the Premier stand today and admit he has betrayed the public trust of British Columbians?

Does the Premier have the courage to admit that what is contained in this secret document is the truth, and will he admit that his campaign promises aren't worth the paper they're written on? Hon. G. Campbell: I can tell the member opposite this: this government is committed to making sure pa- tients get the care they need in British Columbia. This government is committed to revitalizing health care. This government is committed to providing our health care workers with wages that are the tops in Canada, because we recognize the contribution they make.

This government is willing to reform health care so patients are finally at the top of the list and get the care they need where they live. SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION PROJECT IN SOUTHEAST BURNABY J. Nuraney: My question is to the Minister…. Interjections. [1425] J. Nuraney: Are we finished? My question is to the Minister of Education. Some of my constituents are concerned about the school slated to be built in southeast Burnaby. The concern is that it may not be adequate to meet the needs of the community.

Can the minister please tell us what the status of that project is, and what is going to be done to meet the needs of the community? Hon. C. Clark: A s t h e m e m b e r w e l l k no ws , t h e s t u - dents in southeast Burnaby badly need a new school. The old Burnaby South Secondary that they've been at is like sardines. It's wall-to-wall kids. You can barely get through the hallway at lunch hour. I've been down there and toured the school. They certainly need that to be alleviated. Yes, we are planning a new school in southeast Burnaby. It will accommodate 1,200 students.

The core of the school will be built for 1,500 if the growth that we've anticipated is outpaced. The classroom size will accommodate 1,200 students. It's going to be great news for Burnaby and great news for all those kids who so badly need that space. Mr. Speaker: The member for Burnaby-Willingdon has a supplementary question. J. Nuraney: If I understand this right, minister, the school will be built initially for 1,200 students. There will be a provision for an expansion for a further 300 when the time comes and when it is needed. Hon. C.

Clark: The original plan, as the people of Burnaby know, was to go to 1,000 students, based on the numbers we'd received from the Burnaby school district. We went to them and asked them to update their numbers. They told us the numbers were cur- rent. However, after we'd made the decision, the Burnaby school board informed us that they did indeed have new numbers. After extensive lobbying, I can add, from the Burnaby MLAs, I decided to re- visit that decision and build the school to a capacity of 1,200 as the new numbers demonstrated.

I think this is a real example of the cooperation that we as a government have with our MLAs and our school districts. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The member for Okanagan-Vernon has the floor. ELIMINATION OF INDUSTRY TRAINING AND APPRENTICESHIP COMMISSION T. Christensen: Over the last number of months I've had the privilege of sitting on the Select Standing Committee on Education.

As we toured around the province, it didn't matter whether we were in big communities or small communities, one of the things we heard a lot about was a real need for skills devel- opment and training in this province. My question is for the Minister of Advanced Edu- cation. As part of the government's restructuring pro- gram the Industry Training and Apprenticeship Com- mission, commonly known as ITAC, has been elimi- nated. Expanding training and apprenticeship oppor- tunities is a top priority for my constituents as well as many other British Columbians.

Many of them are now wondering whether those opportunities are going to be available without ITAC. Can the minister tell us why ITAC was disbanded? Hon. S. Bond: We certainly do recognize the im- portance of skills and trades training in the province of British Columbia. In order to respond in a timely way to the needs of industry in this province, we are restructuring at this point in time. We want a system that looks at being timely and being able to produce a number of workers that are not only in need now but certainly in growing demand.

In fact, we're in the process of putting together a transition advisory committee, and I'm pleased to say that we're going to put members of labour, in- dustry and institutions on that committee. I look forward to being able to announce that committee very shortly.

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1437 Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. S. Bond: This is a great, exciting opportunity for government to work for training in this province. We're excited about it, and we look forward to an an- nouncement in the near future. Mr. Speaker: The member for Okanagan-Vernon with a supplementary question. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. T. Christensen: P a r t o f I T A C ' s m a n d a t e w a s t o provide colleges in B.C. with funding for training and apprenticeship programs.

Now that ITAC itself has been disbanded, can the minister tell us whether the funding will continue to be made available to those service providers in the interim? Hon. S. Bond: The great news is that we're going to take our time and get this right so that we can ensure that as we look forward….

The additional good news is that industry is excited about getting involved with us, and we are looking forward to that. [1430] Even better news is the fact that we've protected almost $70 million that we're going to use for training in this particular province, and we're going to work with institutions to be innovative, creative, and do a great job. [End of question period.] Petitions H. Bloy: I rise today to present a petition from 52 mem- bers from the lower mainland pertaining to health care. Motions without Notice Hon. G. Collins: First of all, Mr.

Speaker, I'm re- minded from the Table that I have a motion to move. It's a standard motion we've moved in this House for a number of years to charge Committee A for the esti- mates process. It's in the hands of the opposition and the Table. I ask leave to move it without reading it. [By leave, moved by Hon.G. Collins

Be it resolved that this House hereby authorizes the Committee of Supply for this session to sit in two sections designated

Section A and

Section B;

Section A to sit in such committee room as may be appointed from time to time, and

Section B to sit in the chamber of the assembly, subject to the following rules: 1. The standing orders applicable to the Committee of the Whole House shall be applicable in both sections of the Committee of Supply save and except that in

Section A, a minister may defer to a deputy minister to permit such deputy to reply to a question put to the minister. 2. Subject to paragraph 3, within one sitting day of the passage of this motion, the House Leader of the opposition may advise the Government House Leader, in writing, of three ministerial estimates which the opposition requires to be considered in

Section B of the Committee of Supply, and upon receipt of such notice in writing, the Government House Leader shall confirm in writing that the said three ministerial estimates shall be considered in

Section B of the Committee of Supply. 3. All estimates shall stand referred to

Section A, save and except those estimates which shall be referred to

Section B under the provisions of paragraph 2 of this order and such other estimates as shall be referred to

Section B on motion by the government House Leader, which motion shall be governed by the provisions of Standing Order 60A. Practice recommendation No. 6 relating to consultation shall be applicable to this rule. 4.

Section A shall consist of 19 members, being 17 members of the B.C. Liberal Party and two members of the New Democratic Party. In addition, the Deputy Chair of the Committee of the Whole, or his or her nominee, shall preside over the debates in

Section A. Substitution of members will be permitted to

Section A with the consent of that member's Whip, where applicable, otherwise with the consent of the member involved. For the third session of the thirty-seventh parliament, the members of

Section A shall be as follows: the minister whose estimates are under consideration and Messrs. Bennett, Bloy, Bray, Hamilton, Hunter, Jarvis, Lee, McKay, Manhas, Penner, R. Stewart and Visser, Mmes. Locke, Orr, Sahota, Trumper and Mmes. Kwan and MacPhail. 5. At fifteen minutes prior to the ordinary time fixed for adjournment of the House, the Chair of

Section A will report to the House. In the event such report includes the last vote in a particular ministerial estimate, after such report has been made to the House, the government shall have a maximum of eight minutes, and the opposition a maximum of five minutes, and all other members (cumulatively) a maximum of three minutes to summarize the committee debate on a particular ministerial estimate completed, such summaries to be in the following order:

(1) Other members; (2) opposition; and (3) government. 6.

Section B shall be composed of all members of the House. 7. Divisions in

Section A will be signalled by the ringing of the division bells four times. 8. Division in

Section B will be signalled by the ringing of the division bells three times at which time proceedings in

Section A will be suspended until completion of the division in

Section B. 9.

Section B is hereby authorized to consider bills referred to committee after second reading thereof and the standing orders applicable to bills in Committee of the Whole shall be applicable to such bills during consideration thereof in

Section B, and for all purposes

Section B shall be deemed to be a Committee of the Whole. Such referrals to

Section B shall be made upon motion without notice by the Minister responsible for the bill, and such motion shall be decided without amendment or debate. Practice recommendation No. 6 relating to consultation shall be applicable to all such referrals. 10. Bills or estimates previously referred to a designated committee may at any stage be subsequently referred to

1438 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 another designated committee on motion of the Government House Leader or minister responsible for the bill as hereinbefore provided by rules Nos. 3 and 9.] J. MacPhail: Just before leave is granted, I want to clar- ify the words of the House Leader in terms of…. I under- stand this is a motion that was tabled in 2000, not 2001. Mr. Speaker: Correction — 2000. Leave granted. Motion approved. Orders of the Day Hon. G. Collins: Now I move the House consider committee stage of Bill 5. Committee of the Whole House VANCOUVER ISLAND NATURAL GAS PIPELINE AMENDMENT ACT, 2002 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 5; H. Long in the chair. The committee met at 2:32 p.m. Sections 1 to 3 inclusive approved. Title approved. Hon. R. Neufeld: I move the committee rise and report the bill complete without amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 2:35 p.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Report and Third Reading of Bills Bill 5, Vancouver Island Natural Gas Pipeline Amendment Act, 2002, reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed. Hon. R. Neufeld: I move budget debate. Budget Debate (continued) Mr. Speaker: The budget debate continues with the member for Prince George North.

P. Bell: I'd like to continue on with the direction of my comments from last Thursday, if I may. [H. Long in the chair.] Just briefly as a review, I spoke last Thursday about some of the highlights and lowlights in 2001, in terms of the significant increase in retail sales in the third quarter of 5 percent compared to the national average of just 1.9 percent. I spoke about the challenges of Sep- tember 11 and certainly the softwood lumber agree- ment, which is starting to look somewhat more promis- ing.

I also spoke extensively about my trip to Kwada- cha in the north end of my riding and some of the is- sues surrounding that particular community. I'd like to go on and talk about the continuation of that particular trip and the community of Tsay Keh. I speak about this because I think it's relevant to the budget process. The issues facing these two first na- tions communities are very similar to the issues that we face throughout the province. I think they're a really good example of microeconomies at work and what we need to develop those.

The folks in Tsay Keh have four priorities at this point in time — t h i n g s t h a t I ' v e b e e n w o r k i n g o n , o n their behalf. The first one is the issue of the road into the community. The second, as I spoke of earlier this morning in some debate, is the power generation facili- ties for the communities. The third critical issue — and we speak about this extensively in this House on an ongoing basis — i s t h a t o f e d u c a t i o n f o r t h e c o m m u - nity. They have a wonderful school. I was able to take a look through the school.

It's one of the more advanced schools in the riding, but they have a terrible time get- ting and keeping good teachers. I'm working with the BCTF now on trying to develop a greater rapport and get some teachers who are currently certified under the BCTF through their aboriginal education program to consider relocating up to Tsay Keh. I'm hoping that we're going to have some progress in that area. The fourth key issue in Tsay Keh is the post office. They actually don't have any postal service in a com- munity of 250 people.

I've spent some time working on this issue with their federal MP, Jay Hill, and I'm pleased to report that we're close to having a post office that will be permanently located in the community of Tsay Keh. That's great news. I spent some time with Johnny Pierre as well, the c h i e f o f T s a y K e h . H e w a s v e r y u p f r o n t w i t h m e . W e talked extensively about the issues facing the commu- nity, and it was truly a great trip. You know, change has just begun. We must move aggressively on our agenda of deregulation in the gov- ernment service sector.

There are 404,000 regulations currently strangling our resource industries in their attempt and ability to expand and grow in the prov- ince. It's been a huge challenge for our resource sectors for the past ten or 15 years. [1440] One of the challenges I'm looking forward to being involved in is the development of a results-based For- est Practices Code. As you know, I've worked in the field of forestry for the last seven or eight years, and I'm continually confused by the amount of process-

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1439 driven requirements that are in our existing Forest Practices Code. It's very, very frustrating to know that you have a heavily infested mountain pine beetle tree, but because it happens to grow on one type of moss instead of an- other type of moss, you're not allowed to remove that tree, and the hatching of the mountain pine beetles from that tree will continue to infest our forests in the coming years. That's extremely frustrating for me as someone who wants to contribute as part of the com- munity.

Speaking of the mountain pine beetle problem, it's a huge issue for us in the north. I'm pleased that the Min- ister of Forests has identified some key initiatives, in both the Speech from the Throne and the budget, that will help us attack the mountain pine beetle problem in the north. There's a lot of new technology that we've been working on, and I believe that we're actually close to the point where we'll be able to identify the attacked areas in a much more economical fashion. I think that will be something that's very positive.

The third real initiative that I think we must move aggressively on in terms of deregulation is that of the value-added forest industry. British Columbia really is on the edge of having an incredibly thriving, value- added manufacturing industry. It's principally new technology that we're talking about here. This is not technology that was developed ten, 15 or 20 years ago. In fact, in many cases it's just been over the last few years. A lot of it has to do with stress-rated types of lumber and glue-lam beams and engineered wood products and that type of thing. That really is our fu- ture in this province.

Certainly, I speak about that on an ongoing basis. Another key component or key area we need to focus on in terms of deregulation is the energy produc- tion field. My colleague from East Kootenay often speaks in this House about the need to develop coal- fired electrical generation systems. I really believe this is an area that we can expand aggressively in our prov- ince. Certainly, just located outside the edge of my rid- ing of Prince George North, at Tumbler Ridge, we have huge untapped, very high grade coal fields where we could be developing electrical energy.

It's not located far off the main power grid that would carry that en- ergy down into the lower mainland or perhaps even into the United States. There's a real opportunity for us, I believe, in terms of the electrical energy generation area, specifically to do with coal and certainly coalbed methane. Another initiative this government has taken that I'm very pleased about is expanding fish farming. I think there's a huge opportunity for us, particularly in the hard-hit coastal areas.

The riding of my colleague from North Coast, I believe, will be a significant benefi- ciary of the actions this government has taken to ex- pand the fish-farming industry. It's exciting to me that although we have lost many canneries over the last ten or 15 years in this province, we will be able to regain that component of our industry. I think that over time, the employment we will see in those fields will be sub- stantial. Those coastal communities that really have been dying, particularly over the last ten years, will begin to thrive again. That's very exciting. The tech industry is great news for us as well.

Probably a lot of members in this House would find it odd that the member for Prince George North would wish to speak about the tech industry. That part of the province is known as an area of natural resource ex- traction, and it probably seems odd that I would refer to the tech industry. But Prince George has a thriving tech industry, and it's growing. The interesting thing about it is that most of the technological developments from my general part of the world relate, actually, to the forest industry.

There have been some really neat things developed: little sending units that you can mount on a steel I-beam, which can detect weight down to a pound or two that is placed on that I-beam. There are some very positive things. [1445] Some other really good-news stories that I'd like to talk about. On this last weekend we just completed a series of budgetary consultation meetings in Prince George.

The three area MLAs — myself, the member for Prince George–Omineca and the member for Prince George–Mount Robson — got together with a total of about 20 different groups over two days in a series of 12 meetings and spoke with the groups in terms of some of the initiatives. You would think that certainly we would want to meet with our friends, but we met with a broad spectrum of members in the community. We met with the BCGEU, the HEU, the HSA, the BCTF and the Prince George and District Labour Council.

There's a quote I'd like to read into the record from the weekend, in terms of the news media reports from the meeting. It's significant because it really takes us, I believe, to a new era in our relationships in the com- munity.

"For the first time since the Liberal government announced they were cutting 11,700 civil service positions over three years, both sides came away with positive things to say. 'I've got hope,' said Prince George BCGEU staff representative Lorna Waghorn-Kidd after they opened the MLA budget talks early Friday morning. 'We had an open dialogue, and they said they'd get back to us in a number of areas of concerns.'" The BCGEU actually came away from that meeting with a new willingness to work with us as a govern- ment.

I think we've crossed a threshold now that is absolutely necessary for us to bring inclusively all of the government employees in to start working on and addressing the issues that are facing us. It's a huge challenge, but I believe that certainly this weekend in Prince George we made substantial headway in over- coming that challenge. There are some other good-news stories in my rid- ing right now that relate to the actions of this govern- ment in the last eight or ten months. Prince George Regional Hospital was in a state of distress eight months or a year ago. It was really in tough shape.

There were weekends, in a community of 75,000 peo- ple, where we were not able to have a normal delivery

1440 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 of a baby at PGRH because of lack of services and an inefficient operation and management system. At that point in time we had just three operating rooms open out of a total of six. It was a challenge for anyone to get any sort of basic level of services. We had taken Prince George Regional Hospital from the status of a regional trauma referral centre down to no better than a first-aid location. It was a very, very sad state of affairs that had been created by the actions of the pre- vious government.

The good news is that we now have five operating rooms open and operating at PGRH, with a sixth one expected to open any day. There's a whole new attitude at PGRH now. The doctors are happy. They see head- way in the operation. I meet with groups of nurses on a regular basis. They're contributing. They're trying to be part of the solution now. They believe we are over that initial hump — that difficult time. They understand changes need to be made, but we're making progress, and that's significant. I'm excited about what's happen- ing there. Some of the other good-news stories that we have in my end of the world.

The Mackenzie pulp mills, of which we have two, actually have set records for pulp production in some of the worst markets that we've ever faced. Because of the innovative steps they have taken, they're able to produce pulp and make a profit at record low prices. That's wonderful news for us, because it means that it will be sustainable long-term. They've developed processes in utilizing types of fibre that have not normally been used in the pulp process — and they're relatively low value — to produce a high-value product. The sawmills throughout my riding, of which there are six, are working flat out right now.

They're all pro- d u c i n g h i g h v o l u m e s o f l u m b e r o n a n o n g o i n g b a s i s , and they're actually adding shifts. In Mackenzie for the first time in anyone's memory — i n r e c e n t y e a r s o r certainly in the last eight or ten years — the sawmills have had to run ads to hire labourers. They're actually out recruiting people for the first time. I think that's wonderful news for us. [1450] The exciting part of all this, of course, stems back to the housing market across Canada.

As you heard ear- lier today in a private member's statement, the housing m a r k e t i s e x p l o d i n g i n C a n a d a r i g h t n o w , a n d w e ' r e having wonderful results. There is some really good news out there, Mr. Speaker, and we need to focus on some of the good news. It's opportune, though, to take a look at the history of how we got here. In order to move ahead with our budget this year and over the next three years, we need to look back and ask ourselves: how did we get into the situation we're in? I'm happy to be able to tell you how we got into that situation.

Through the period '91 to '97 it's no secret that B.C.'s economy was flat. In fact, in the '92-to-'97 period B.C.'s gross domestic product actually went backwards by 0.6 percent. The thing that makes it so sad is that the next worst province in Canada, the province of Sas- katchewan, had a GDP growth of almost 10 percent. The province of Newfoundland had a 28 percent GDP growth. Yet in B.C. we went backwards.

You have to ask about the economic plans of the previous govern- ment if they were able to actually drive the GDP in a negative fashion at a time when we had the most vi- brant growth that's ever occurred in North America. I suppose that was devastating in itself, but there was another fundamental problem which occurred over that seven-year period. While our economy was going backwards to the tune of 0.6 percent, the gov- ernment increased spending by 31 percent — on an economy that was going backwards — over a period of seven years. How can you possibly sustain that type of growth in a negative economy?

We can even extend that further. If you look at the period from 1991 to 2001, the period of the previous administration's involvement, the cost of government escalated by 73 percent — 73 percent in a ten-year period — and the total gross domestic product only grew by 5 percent during that period of time. Where did that money come from? It came out of the pockets of the people of B.C. That's why the average income dropped throughout that same decade by $1,100 per citizen in this province.

That's absolutely disgusting in view of the fact that in both Alberta and Ontario, people's in- comes grew during the same period of time. People voted for change last May, Mr. Speaker. It was clear that change had to happen, because we were going nowhere in this province. Last Tuesday we were all invited to the provincial congress. Certainly, I enjoyed the B.C. Progress Board's report. I thought it was very timely. The interesting component for me was that the benchmarks estab- lished by the B.C. Progress Board responded not just to economic issues but also to social issues.

The member for Vancouver-Hastings and the member for Vancou- ver–Mount Pleasant continue to insist that we have no heart. Well, I would challenge that. There are a number of specific initiatives in this budget that I believe ad- dress some of the social needs in our province. I think the fact that we reinstituted the seniors bus pass was a very positive thing. I think the fact that we've protected the funding for women's shelters and transition housing is extremely important.

You don't hear either the member for Vancouver-Hastings or the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ever congratu- late us for the fact that we protected that funding. We do care for people. They constantly talk about the need to protect the quality of our drinking water. Do you think they've ever once mentioned that we've added $1.5 million to the budget for the protection of drinking water in the province? I don't think they care, Mr. Speaker. They've talked on numerous occasions during question period about the changes to the legal aid sys- tem.

Do you think they once mentioned the fact that even after all those changes take place, we will still have the third-richest legal aid system in all of Canada, and in an economy that's barely been firing on one cylinder for the last ten years? I think it's admirable for

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1441 us to put that kind of commitment behind legal aid spending when we've been in such a difficult state. [1455] The Pharmacare issue. The two members like to talk to us about Pharmacare. I'm happy to talk about Pharmacare. They like to paint the picture that we don't care for our seniors. Again, they have not once mentioned the fact that even after the changes, we have the richest Pharmacare system in all of Canada, with an average reimbursement level of 52 percent versus 43 percent in the rest of Canada.

The fact is that we have protected and actually grown the budgets in the ministries of Health, Educa- tion, Advanced Education, and Children and Family Development. We have been committed to the social values of this province, and I think that the ministers certainly have done an admirable job. I'd just like to close with a couple of comments in terms of some consultation I've had with teachers in my riding. When we introduced Bill 27 four or five weeks ago, there was a clause in that bill that stated we would do a review of the negotiating process for teacher contracts in the future.

I would just like to en- courage the Minister of Labour to continue to travel down that road. I find it absolutely despicable that the last three contracts for teachers have all been legislated — not just the one we had to legislate this year but the two previous contracts that also had to be legislated by the previous government, the ones that were supposed to be friendly. Even they had to do it. It shows that the system we have in place does not work today, and we need to correct that. This government is committed to making those kinds of changes, and we will make those changes.

I t ' s a n e x c i t i n g t i m e i n f r o n t o f u s . C e r t a i n l y , I ' m looking forward to the resolution of the softwood lum- ber agreement. The minister has done an excellent job, and I continue to urge him to move down that path. I think the Minister of Finance has certainly found the best compromise available to us, so I congratulate him on his budget and encourage him to move ahead. Hon. M. Coell: I'm pleased to be able to rise today and speak in support of the budget. I'd like, firstly, to thank the Minister of Finance.

From what I've seen, I think the whole process of developing this budget was more open than it has ever been in British Columbia. There was access for members of this Legislature, for members of cabinet and for committees in the building of this budget, and I think the proof is in its success. I would also like to thank my deputy minister and her senior staff for the work they did in preparing the budget. We have an extremely talented, capable and professional ministry, and I'm grateful for that and thank them for that as well.

I'd like to start off by making a few comments about the Ministry of Human Resources and the effects and the changes as this budget affects it. I'd like to speak about the budget as a whole, and then I would like to look into the future as to what this budget holds for the future of British Columbia. This government has a new vision and a new man- date for the income assistance system in the province. It is based on employment, training and assistance for those most in need. The ministry wants to shift from a system and a culture of entitlement to one of employ- ment and self-sufficiency.

The Ministry of Human Re- sources B.C. employment and assistance program has a fundamental goal, and the goal is to support people in finding sustainable employment. A job is better than income assistance. We want to see British Columbians achieve their full economic and social potential. I believe the people on income assis- tance in British Columbia truly want an opportunity to realize their potential and to become economically in- dependent. To that end, my ministry is committing in this budget $300 million over the next three years toward effective job placement and training-for-jobs programs.

The money will support performance-based programs that move people off income assistance into sustainable jobs. This is consistent with the new-era commitment to providing responsible, manageable, accountable public services and tax dollars. [1500] The ministry is also designing employment pro- grams that will support persons with disabilities in part-time, cyclical employment and in self- employment. Earning exemptions and income treat- ment will also support increased independence for people with disabilities. This spring we will raise the earning exemption from $200 to $300 for persons with disabilities.

This will leave them with an additional $100 per person in their pockets. We also know the appeal system needs to be over- hauled, and we are making changes. It is essential that people have an effective and efficient avenue for ap- pealing decisions affecting their income assistance. The changes to the appeal system will result in a stream- lined single-appeal process that will be fair, timely, effective and responsive to people's needs. I believe we are sending a clear message to British Columbians that we are determined to revitalize the economy, to restore financial management and to put people first.

We have undertaken a major restructuring of our programs and services so this ministry can play an important role in fulfilling those commitments, be- cause the people this ministry truly serves are a re- source of talent that we can tap into and create jobs for. We are all determined to help people create a bright future in the province. I believe the ministry can do that. I believe the changes we are making this spring will help people to succeed and to fulfil their greatest potential. I look at what this budget is for British Co- lumbians. It's a beginning.

It's taking the last ten years and saying: "We're changing direction. We're going to create a more prosperous province. We're going to get our financial house in order, and we're going to do that openly and accountably to the people of British Co- lumbia."

1442 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 This is the first year that we will have detailed, three-year service plans for ministries so that the minis- ters and the ministries and the people who work in the ministries will know what their dollar figures are, know what they can count on. Also, the people of the province will know the direction we are moving in. We're going to restore sound financial management in this province. We're going to revitalize the economy. We're going to put patients and students first. I want to speak briefly about the deficit.

This year is the largest deficit that British Columbia has had. We have a plan to have a zero deficit in three years, and we will meet that commitment. The debt that British Co- lumbia has, has been created over the last decade and a half, and it will take a long time for us to pay that debt down. We will begin that process this year. The underlying deficit and debt problems this province has to cope with are hurting individuals. They're hurting industry and are hurting our province in moving ahead. We must revitalize the economy. We must get our financial house in order. Those two as- pects go hand in hand.

When we get our financial house in order, we will have more money to put into health care and into education. When we revitalize the economy, we will have more money to put into health care and education and the other vital services our province has. I believe we will be successful. I believe this budget is a step towards the eventual revitalization of this p r o v i n c e . B . C . i s b a c k ; B . C . i s o p e n f o r b u s i n e s s . B . C . puts patients and children first. That's the message this budget rings clearly. I believe the future of this province is great. When I was young, jobs were plentiful.

B.C. was number one. We balanced our budget. We actually saved money. We created wealth, and that deteriorated and has de- teriorated badly over the last ten years. But we are moving in the right direction now. We're moving in a direction that will put this province back on top so that we can have the best social programs in the country, so that we can have the best economy in the country, so that people are proud to say they're British Columbians and we're number one. We lead this country.

We're not in second place to anyone on any issue in this country. [1505] I am pleased to stand and support this budget, this new direction for British Columbia, this positive direc- tion that puts British Columbia in the front seat moving forward, getting ahead and becoming number one in this country like we deserve to be. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. K. Krueger: I r i s e t o s u p p o r t t h e b u d g e t a s p r e - sented. Like all of my colleagues, I'm quite chagrined to see us having to table a budget with a $4.4 billion defi- cit.

We all saw it coming with the NDP years, the ten years we lived through and the arrangements they left us with. We weren't happy to see it coming. Thank the good Lord the people of British Columbia made the right moves on May 16, 2001, and we were able to get into the saddle and put an end to the decline of British Columbia. Now, 2002 is a unique year. It's a palindromic year. A palindrome, of course, is a word or a number that looks the same whether you look at it from front to back or back to front. For almost a thousand years pal- indromic years only happened every 110 years.

There have been many people who lived their lives without ever seeing a palindromic year. We had 1001, 1111, 1221, and so on, up until 1991. We have unique lives in that everybody in this House has seen two palindromic years, because one happened in 1991 and now in 2002. I think the reason for that is that the people of Brit- ish Columbia were destined to make a terrible mistake in our first palindromic year, 1991. It was a nightmare mistake.

We elected a government that moved us from being the best-performing economy and province in Canada to the worst-performing — ten years of misery, moving backward, snatching defeat from the jaws of v i c t o ry . I n an ab s o l u t e b o om d e c ad e f o r N o rt h A m e r- ica, when everybody else's economy was thriving, we and Chiapas, Mexico, had the terrible misfortune of being the only two jurisdictions in North America that were moving backward. We had one person in ten on welfare; our debt doubled.

We incurred financial re- sponsibility as debt that leaves us paying close to $3 billion a year in interest, every dollar of which we would much rather spend on health care or education. The word "palindrome" actually comes from a Greek verb palindromos, meaning to run back again. British Columbia certainly ran back again — ran back- wards for those ten years. Investors left in droves, and young people unfortunately packed up their careers and took them outside British Columbia. As we went from first to worst in Canada and stayed there, people lost hope and moved away. A lot of fine people moved away.

My wife is a grade 1 teacher. In the last year of the NDP reign she did a little session on government with her grade 1 students. She was trying to make it a posi- tive thing, and she asked them to start with: what do governments do? A little guy said: "Governments boss us around." Obviously, they had heard the message that British Columbia is pretty badly overregulated. She said: "Well, government does lots of positive things too, like they pay for things for us. They paid for this school, for example.

They pay my salary to be your teacher." One little guy said: "Where do they get the money?" My wife, the teacher, said: "They get the money partly from your parents." A couple of other little guys said: "How do they do that?" Several yelled: "By stealing. They steal it from our parents." That's the way taxation began to feel in British Columbia — that people were being stolen from, because the govern- ment hands were in the pockets far too deep. [1510] We made a commitment, Mr.

Speaker, as you know, to roll that back, to reduce personal income taxes in British Columbia to the lowest level in all of Canada for people up to $60,000 a year in income. That's what we did.

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1443 We keep hearing a hue and cry from the people who opposed us in the last election and continue to oppose us, alleging that our tax cuts were giveaways to the rich. It confounds me and a lot of British Columbi- ans why anyone would think that. How could it possi- bly be a giveaway when you allow people to keep their own money in their pocket, or at least a little bit more of it than before? Far from a giveaway, it's the thing that has turned the economy of this province around, and there is much evidence that the economy has turned around and is rebounding.

It was doing so in a very robust way up till the Sep- tember 11 catastrophe last year, an event that horrified and saddened all of us and hurt economies right around the world, but it's still doing well. I've talked to entrepreneurs in my constituency, and whether it's restaurateurs, retailers or real estate agents, people say we're doing a lot better than we were the year before and much better than we did through the dark decade of the nineties.

We thank the good Lord, in His kindness, that way b a c k t h e n w h e n p e o p l e w e r e d e c i d i n g h o w w e w e r e going to do the calendar, he gave us a second palin- dromic year and another chance at this so we won't have to live with those results for 110 years.

It's been a lot of hard work since then, obviously — a Premier who has a tremendous work ethic, who saw a vision for British Columbia, who laid that vision out very clearly in the New Era document and has deliv- ered on that vision; a cabinet who work like Trojans and have worked very hard in supporting him and all British Columbians in bringing that vision to life; gov- ernment caucus committees that include every private member on the government side. Every private member is a member of a GCC. They also have the right to drop in on the meetings of any of the other government caucus committees.

When they do, they have equal voice and an equal vote. We work hard with the cabinet in preparing their three-year ser- vice plans as outlined in the budget, showing British Columbia how we're going to get from here — what we inherited — to there: the best performing economy in Canada once again; a reliable debt service plan that pays off the debt; the elimination once and for all of deficits, which as you know, are going to be illegal. How we're going to get from here to there. I served on the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Gov- ernment Services last year.

We travelled around this province in the fall, and we talked to the public about what their hopes and dreams and fears were. People were very fearful about the cuts they knew were com- ing, because no government can continue to spend more than it takes in in revenues without heading to financial disaster, as British Columbia already had. People knew that cuts were coming, and they were fearful. We heard the message repeatedly that they hoped we would be careful with regard to the most vulnerable British Columbians. We brought that message back, and so did the gov- ernment caucus committees.

To their credit, the Pre- mier and the cabinet listened. In fact, half a billion dol- lars was added back into the budget, somewhat reluc- tantly in that the deficit is larger as a result than it would have been, but it was added back to ensure that we protected those British Columbians who are most vulnerable. With the budget that we're debating today, we turn the corner and begin to leave behind the problems that British Columbia has been suffering through. The pieces are already in place.

They started day one with those tax cuts, and they carry on with the commitment to make this the most competitive tax regime in Can- ada and to eliminate unnecessary regulation, with a goal of eliminating one-third of British Columbia's red tape within the first three years, to take down those barriers that kept investors from coming to British Co- lumbia and creating jobs. We have our opposition. We keep hearing from the organized opposition around the province, largely headed up by the B.C. Federation of Labour and people like Mr.

Heyman, that these have been giveaways to the rich, that somehow they don't see this as in the best interest of British Columbians — because those other folks love taxation. They love this idea of taxing the notional rich. When the Leader of the Opposition was Minister of Finance, she was right into taxation. When it came to taxing the people she thought were the rich, she loved the smell of napalm in the morning and in that way contributed very much to the apocalypse which struck British Columbia. That is all behind us now.

It'll take a little while to complete the turnaround, and sadly, we are going to have, we expect, two more years of deficits before we get the province turned around. You see in this budget and in our throne speech the plan to deliver the results that we've committed to. You see in this House the people who are going to deliver those results. [1515] I want to pause a moment to commend the Minister of Finance — a fine man, a man of integrity, action and resolve.

We've come to know this man in our years in opposition as a person who is a superb strategist, a real thinker and absolutely dedicated to the course he sets himself. He has never wavered from our commitments. He took kind of a cheap shot at the start of being Finance minister from an economist who proclaimed his own self-perceived status with a negative inference about himself having a PhD in economics and the Min- ister of Finance only being a certified flight instructor.

Well, he is a certified flight instructor, and I've thought often of the analogy that economist drew, because Brit- ish Columbia was on its way to a crash. Some would say we'd already had the crash, but if you'll allow the extension of the analogy a bit, we were well on our way to a crash. We couldn't afford the debt and can't afford the interest. Our population was in decline. We were facing structural deficits, meaning year upon year of deficits adding up.

Sure, we'd had a government who, in the last year before the NDP lost power, in a great pre-election stroke of luck had a windfall revenue from an energy price spike and seized a one-time ac- counting manoeuvre to proclaim a balanced budget.

1444 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 They had never managed, up until then, to spend un- der the province's revenues. With that windfall energy outcome, they did pull the plane's nose up for a little while and climbed, but it was unsustainable. They had signed the so-called public sector accords. They had committed to outrageously expensive provi- sions in collective agreements where they gave away management rights and the rights of boards to actually deal with the problems they were tasked with, and they had beggared the economy. The plane couldn't continue to climb, and it didn't.

The plane stalled, it turned, and it started to plummet. Who do you wish is in the cockpit when you're in a plane and the engine is stalled and the ground is coming up fast? Are you looking for a self-proclaimed PhD in economics, or are you looking for a certified flight instructor? I'm awfully glad we've got the certified flight instructor. He has pulled us out of the dive. I can see that in my constituency. I can see it in news from all around the province. He probably received this letter from the British Columbia Real Estate Association. I think they may have sent it to all of us.

They say that in January 2002 the Multiple Listing Service reported that six of the 12 B.C. real estate boards had residential home sales increases of at least 50 percent over January 2001, and four real estate boards saw increases of 75 percent or more. The B.C. Central Credit Union predicts hous- ing sales will rise by about 8 percent in 2002. In my hometown the number of residential construction starts is double what it was last year. There is a spirit of optimism everywhere. This plane is climbing again. We're back on the way to where we ought to have stayed in the first place.

We're not leaving people be- hind. Once again we hear these critics of ours at their little podiums around the province trying to organize so-called protest rallies. They claim to be representing poor people. If their approaches were any good for poor people, why were we left with so many poor peo- p l e w h e n t h e y w e r e i n p o w e r ? T h e f a c t i s t h a t t h e y robbed people of opportunity. They drove away people who would have created jobs. They destined British Columbians for a whole lot of heartache. We've been very careful not to leave people behind.

When we were obliged to increase MSP premiums, as we have in this budget, we protected 230,000 British Columbians either by dropping their MSP rates or by eliminating those rates altogether. When we had to end some of the supplementary health care benefits cover- age from the MSP arrangement, we again protected people at the low end of the income scale. We've gone out of our way to ensure that vulnerable British Co- lumbians are protected. We continue to fund women's shelters. We continue to fund legal aid for those who truly need it.

We've been very, very thrifty, but very careful to protect the people who need protection. We're thankful that our Premier has a vision and a rock-steady determination and that he has an exem- plary work ethic. This whole process has been a bit frightening for some, but I ask people to look at the record, to look at that protection of vulnerable people, and see that tangibly, not through false talk, this gov- ernment looks out for the people who need protection. [1520] We hear from the folks shouting from the podiums of protest — Mr. Heyman, Mr. Sinclair, Mr.

Chud- novsky — that they don't agree with the direction we're taking. Where were they during the 1990s? They were at the wheel. They were the people who were driving the government. I was at the Order of British Columbia ceremony when Glen Clark presented the Order of British Co- lumbia to Mr. Georgetti, the then head of the B.C. Fed- eration of Labour. He referred to him as the nineteenth cabinet minister. Their supporters had quite a chuckle about that because, of course, he was never elected as an MLA, let alone had a right to be in the cabinet, but he was treated with the deference of the Premier.

He wasn't nineteenth of the nineteen either; he was first. I don't think anything happened on the NDP watch that the B.C. Federation of Labour didn't bless or at least allow. These bad results that we inherited are their results. They're the results of the very people who now stand at the podium and shout their disapproval of what we're doing. They're the folks who drove our economy to ruin, and they're the folks who drove youth out of Brit- ish Columbia. Their days of running the show, thank- fully, are done. Now they present themselves as the champions of the poor, but then they pushed us all toward poverty.

With so many folks claiming that their programs bene- fit the poor in British Columbia, if they were all telling us the truth, how could there possibly be any poor left? But there are. There are many needy British Columbi- ans. As the speaker before me said — the Minister of Human Resources — there is no better defence against poverty than a job. We're opening up the job market. North America, before the events of September 11, was in such a boom that in various states in the United States employers were having to bus in employees across state lines.

McDonald's on the eastern seaboard was paying young people $10 an hour to start, as their workers, and paying them two hours each way to ride the bus to work. People were competing for the ser- vices of employees, because the big generation is retir- ing and there's a shortage of people at every level. The member for Okanagan-Vernon referred earlier, in question period, to the issue of the critical shortage of skilled tradespeople in British Columbia.

That's a real problem for all of us because it's not something that was addressed except through, once again, costly public service programs that didn't deliver the results during that unfortunate decade of the 1990s. As we turn this economy around, as we get investors coming back to British Columbia because we've taken down those barriers, jobs are going to be created, and em- ployers are going to be competing for the services of employees. The six-bucks issue won't be an issue any- more, because employers are going to be eager to at-

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1445 tract employees, and they're going to bid against one another to do it. That was a golden decade for North America's economy. It's an awful shame that we missed it, but the B.C. Liberal government has turned that around and is poising British Columbia to be in the vanguard of the recovery. Everywhere we see the indications that it's working. We've cleared the fuel lines of the plane, we've set the trim, and the plane is in very good hands. Mr.

Speaker, I know you're a bit of an aviator yourself, and I invite you to capitalize on this theme and bring it on as you deliver your further addresses in this House. Interjection. K. Krueger: The Minister of Forests says my run- way lights are on. I still see a white light. Palindromes are kind of neat numbers, but when we look back at 2002, nobody wants British Columbia to be seeing the same picture at the end of the year that we inherited at the beginning. We don't want 2002 to look at all the same. We don't want British Columbia to even resemble the problems we've had by the end of this year.

Maybe it's optimistic because it's a little soon, b u t I d o h e a r e v e r y w h e r e I g o t h a t p o s i t i v e c h a n g e i s afoot and that people feel good about things. So much of the economy, as you know, is driven by optimism versus pessimism. People had reason to be pessimistic during the 1990s, and those reasons have disappeared. [1525] I was at an economic forum in Kamloops over the weekend. Fine people from Kamloops came together, a panel of 27 people that had been chosen.

Also, many members of the public came out to present their ideas about how Kamloops can lead the way in taking ad- vantage of the economic opportunities out there. We're seeing that Americans view British Columbia quite rightly as a safe haven, a place where they are not only welcome but safe, a place where there is much to see and do, much to enjoy, and where everything is virtu- ally a two-for-one sale with the mighty American dol- lar. I've had the good fortune of being able to go skiing at Sun Peaks a couple of times this winter, and I meet American people who are just delighted with the place.

They found out that they can get up to our ski moun- tain in three and a half hours from Vancouver. They find that a husband and wife can stay at Nancy Green's Cahilty Lodge for $67 apiece and their kids can stay for free — breakfast included, and so are their ski passes. It's a tremendous experience. And people are actually staying. They're buying their condominiums and stick- ing around. This past week I was delighted to see that the offering of the Four Seasons Hotel at Whistler sold out in five and a half hours, and it's only on the draw- ing board.

British Columbia is a great place to live, play and do business in. No place, Mr. Speaker, is better than Kamloops. Kamloops and the North Thompson and South Thompson valleys are absolutely delightful places for people to come and vacation and stay for a lifetime. In Kamloops we have a marvellous cultural com- munity.

Recently that was recognized by the federal government, and a spokesperson from the selection process said this about Kamloops: "Finally — and, I think, of great significance — a point that clearly articulates the well-orchestrated symbiotic relationship between UCC" — the University College of the Cariboo — "and the arts community and its ability to respond to academic research is the community-university research alliance grant, the CURA grant. UCC, along with the Kamloops Art Gallery, Western Canada Theatre and other community-based groups, secured a $600,000 grant.

Lon Dubinsky, a researcher from McGill working with the Kamloops Art Gallery, stated that 'being one of 15 projects awarded out of 120 applications is recognition of the city's cultural record, the partners' individual strengths and their desire to work together.' He further stressed that 'it's rare to find in one place a thriving art gallery, a museum, a theatre company, a symphony, a first nations cultural society and a university with a genuine concern for community development.'" We've got all of that and a whole lot more. I'm proud to work with very progressive first na- tions bands in our area.

The Kamloops Indian band is an exemplary operation. They're developing a 2,000- unit residential complex on the flanks of Mt. Paul. These homes are heated and air-conditioned by the geothermal currents within the Earth. Georg Schurian, the developer who's working with them, is a partner with the Doppelmayes family, and is skilled in devel- opment, particularly with ski lifts. All of these operations in our area tie together in a very interesting way. The Six Mile Ranch project is coming on stream. The lots — for those inquiring of me, and there have been some — will start coming on stream for sale this fall.

We have tremendous fishing opportunities — 400 fly-fishing lakes within a 40-mile radius of Kamloops. Of course, you don't have to think very hard to recog- nize where the term "Kamloops trout" came from — a famous fighting rainbow trout. We have incredible things to visit: the Lac du Bois Grasslands Park, the Wells Gray provincial park. I en- courage all British Columbians to spend their dollars at par. Come on up to Kamloops–North Thompson. Visit our fine constituency. Spend your holidays there this year. Join your American friends who are joining us in droves. A little bit of a commercial for my area, Mr.

Speaker, but I think that all of British Columbia is go- ing to experience a real boom over the coming years. I'm not at all certain that it's actually going to take us the time that we've set out to eliminate those deficits and begin paying off the debt. I hope that's true, be- cause I'd be ashamed to leave a legacy of debt for my children and my grandchildren. Let me say in the House that in August I'm going to be a grandfather for the first time, and I'm very, very proud of it. Interjection.

1446 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 K. Krueger: The member is right. I'm far too young, but it's just something that happened. An Hon. Member: Enough about that. [1530] K. Krueger: Enough about that, indeed. I'm repatriating my daughter and her fiancé from Alberta. They're getting married on June 1 and coming back to make their lives in British Columbia, as I hope all the young people do who moved away during the dark decade of the NDP. It's onward and upward. It's been a pleasure to speak in this House today.

I commend the Premier and the Finance minister for the budget — and the throne speech, since I won't get a chance to speak to that, I don't think. I'm proud to be a part of this team. I'm delighted with the private mem- bers in this House. It's a real pleasure serving with them. I've been listening to the speeches, and I'm very pleased to be working with all of these fine individuals. Thanks very much. D. MacKay: Just to follow up for a moment on the comments of the member for Kamloops–North Thompson about being a grandfather.

I know how ex- citing that is, being the grandfather to three wonderful grandchildren today, and the enjoyment that those grandchildren bring. I think that for all the right rea- sons, we are embarking on a process that will get this province out of debt and make it a better place for those grandchildren who are going to follow us. We have to ask ourselves: how did we allow our- selves to get to the state that we are in today? We're $34 billion in debt provincially and $650 billion federally, in a country that is rich in resources and in dedicated, knowledgable people.

D u r i n g t h e S e c o n d W o r l d W a r , C a n a d a p a i d i t s way through its taxpayers by a temporary tax known as income tax, back in the 1940s. That was a temporary imposition in 1941. Interjection. D. MacKay: First World War — thank you. We have paid our way for years through a tempo- rary tax known as income tax. I have to ask myself: how did we allow ourselves to get so far into debt in this wonderful country today? Did it start with the word "credit"? Did it start with the words "deficit financing"? I'm not sure.

For the first time, I got involved in politics, and I am now in this House representing Bulkley Valley– Stikine and having a look at it from the government side. I'm dismayed when I look at the debt that this province is carrying. It is huge; it's unsustainable. I have to look around and ask: how did we allow that to happen? We saw what happened on the lawns of this Legis- lature on Saturday, just a short time ago — about ten days ago — when 20,000 people came and said they didn't like what we were doing to this province. I have to ask myself: how did we get here?

I have to look in- wards and ask myself the question: why did I, as a citi- zen of Canada and British Columbia, allow us to get so far into debt? Perhaps it was ignorance on my part, thinking that governments had a pot of money that was overflowing and would never stop. When we started going into deficit financing, did we stand up as a group of people and say: "Stop spending beyond your means to pay for the programs that you're providing us"? No, we didn't. Politicians continued to spend beyond their means to provide people with programs that people wanted — not necessarily needed but wanted.

You know what happened. They did that in order to get re-elected. Isn't that interesting? Today we have a debt in this province of $34 billion. Who is to blame for that debt? I would suggest that we are to blame for the debt. Those of us in this room who are old enough, who have enjoyed some of the things that previous gov- ernments have delivered to us, are to blame for the debt. There should be no doubt in anybody's mind that we have a big financial problem federally and, more specifically, provincially.

We have to ask ourselves: how are we going to get rid of this problem, this huge debt that is hanging around our head? [1535] I would like to start by telling you that in April, one year ago when the NDP ran their mandate out to five years and had the courage to call the election, the B.C. Liberal Party was ready to tackle the problem that we face today. That problem was finances — spending beyond our means to pay for it. In the New Era document, which was the platform for the B.C. Liberal candidates, were a number of items to address the problems that we're facing today. I'd like to read some of them to you.

We said we woul d pass real balanced-budget legislation to make balanced budgets mandatory by our third full budget and hold all ministers individually accountable. Can you imag- ine finally having ministers accountable for the money the people of this province give them to spend on pro- grams? It's about time. We also said that we would reduce the cost of government by increasing efficien- cies and eliminating wasteful spending on government mismanagement, propaganda and business subsidies. We have started on that process as well, Mr. Speaker — long overdue.

We also said we would establish provincial health standards that ensure citizens in every part of this province get equitable health care, regardless of where they live. We said we would maintain this year's over- all $9.3 billion budget for health care. Well, I want you to know we've increased spending by $1 billion. We are now spending $10.2 billion on health care. We also said we would provide the health regions with three-year funding windows, so they would know how much money they were going to get, and we would let them administer the delivery of health care without political interference.

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1447 We also said that we would pass real truth-in- budgeting legislation to ensure all provincial finances are fully and accurately reported under generally ac- cepted accounting principles. We would also establish performance standards and targets for all government programs. Progress will be measured. Can you imagine measuring progress for a government program — au- dited and established in annual reports and on the Internet for all the taxpayers to see? That is there today for all taxpayers to see.

We have a plan to attack this huge financial problem, and it's there for everybody to see, unlike the previous administration. We said we would establish a fixed date for the tabling of the provincial budget and a set legislative calendar. We have started on that. We had the budget introduced in this House on February 19, and that's what I'm speaking in support of today, Mr. Speaker. In addition to what I've just explained to you, a lot of people, I think, got involved in politics for the first time out of frustration, out of anger. I speak for myself when I say that.

When you look at the ten northern MLAs, elected from the northern half of this province, you just have to look at the people. The member for North Coast was self-employed, and he was manager of maintenance and engineering of a pulp mill. The member for Skeena was self-employed. The member for Bulkley Valley– Stikine, myself, was self-employed. The member for Prince George–Omineca was a sitting MLA and a law- yer who was re-elected. The member for Prince George North was self-employed, and he was in small busi- ness, logging and some food franchises.

The member for Prince George–Mount Robson was a school board chair. The member for Peace River North was a sitting MLA at the time and was re-elected. The member for Peace River South is a former mayor of Dawson Creek, and he was elected. The member for Cariboo North was a sitting MLA, and he was re-elected. And from Cariboo South, we had a former mayor who was self- employed, and he was elected. [1540] From that list of ten northern MLAs, we have a good cross-section of people who understand econom- ics and know that we could no longer continue to spend beyond our means to pay for it.

The people in this province, on May 16, said: "We have to change direction . We want to change direction." We had the New Era document, we had the plan, and on May 16 they elected 77 B.C. Liberals out of 79 to represent them in this House. To help us start scratching our way back to the sur- face, the Premier asked for an independent financial review of the province's financial state. I think every- body knows that report was not favourable. It was not sustainable. We had a problem with our finances.

If we h a d c a r r i e d o n w i t h t h e s a m e s t a t u s q u o , w e w o u l d have seen many programs disappear — social pro- grams that people relied on. We would have elimi- nated some of them. We would have had to make some cuts to some of them, and in order to make those cuts we started a process called the core review, which looked at every program this province was delivering to the people. We asked ourselves: is it necessary that that program be there? Is it doing what was intended? Is there some way of measuring the results of the pro- grams that are being delivered?

If the program was unnecessary, we would elimi- nate it. I think some of the programs have been elimi- nated, much to the chagrin of some of the people af- fected by those cuts, but we could no longer continue t o s p e n d m o n e y a s w e h a v e i n t h e p a s t o n p r o g r a m s that weren't achieving any results and that were not benefiting the people of this province. Shortly after the election I was fortunate enough to sit on several task forces. The first task force I sat on was the pine beetle task force.

That task force was the result of the Minister of Forests asking four MLAs to go out and listen to the people of the province as they discussed the problems faced in dealing with the health of the forest in the north-central part of this province and the large pine beetle infestation. We travelled through 11 communities in the northwest part of this province and listened to people who were affected by the downturn in the economy and this huge crisis that was facing our forest industry.

We did a report for the minister, and I'm pleased to say that the majority of those recommendations we made to the minister have been implemented and are being acted upon to see if we can stop this wildfire that is consuming a large part of our province. I also sat on the task force on aboriginal affairs.

We travelled to different parts of the province and listened to a large number of people tell us what they thought about our election platform and our promise to the p e o p l e t h a t w e w o u l d h a v e a r e f e r e n d u m a n d g i v e everybody in this province a chance to have their say on aboriginal affairs by way of a referendum. That is in process today. I also travelled throughout the province, more par- ticularly through the northwest part of our province, with the Offshore Oil and Gas Task Force chaired by the member for Peace River South.

We listened to a large number of people express concern about the lack of jobs and the lack of opportunity, and we also heard from the other side when people spoke about the fear of the unknown, the fear of something happening should we proceed with the oil and gas. We are wait- ing for the results of that outcome. I also sit on the Special Committee to Review the Police Complaint Process, a process that is underway and will be for several more months. [1545] The one thing we kept hearing was that people wanted to go back to work.

When we look at what we have done as a government to date, I think it's very admirable. We have put a lot of people back to work. We have a large number of people interested in coming back into the province with their investment dollars and creating employment in power production, aqua- culture, methane gas and mining. Even the mining people who were chased from this province by the ten years of overregulation and taxation are making noises

1448 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 4, 2002 about coming back into the province and investing in this province once again. I ask myself: are we doing the right thing? You bet we are. We're doing the right thing for a large number of people and, more particularly, for the next genera- tion that's going to follow us. I want to make sure Brit- ish Columbia is a better place for the next generation o nc e I 'm f i ni s he d m y jo b a s a n M L A and c an s i t b ac k with my feet up and enjoy the few years I have left.

Since the inception of our cuts that we've had to make to ensure that the funding we do have is sustain- able, I've had a lot of phone calls and a lot of letters — a lot of people who are angry at what we're doing, and they've let it be known. On the other side of the fence, I'm also hearing from a lot of people who support what we're doing. They think we're doing the right thing, and they're not afraid to come out and tell us. I'd just like to read a few of those comments to you.

This is a quote from an e-mail I received: "Remember that there may have been 15,000 to 25,000 and 18 yappers at the rally on Saturday, but there were 2.5 million of us BC'ers at home watching the Olympics who didn't agree with them. I note in the media that at least the unions can sing and play guitars. Of course, that's all they did for eight years, and that is why we're in the mess we are. Don't let them scare you off." Another one, and this is from a small community up in Atlin: "I know you and all the MLAs and the Premier are very busy these days.

I heard the budget speech yesterday, and I just want to say you are doing a great job. Anyone can take the easy road, but you have chosen the only route we can go to stop being dysfunctional. The squeaky wheels are being noisy, which is to be expected. Stay the course. You have the support of many." That comes from a small community in the northern part of this province. This comes from small business owner in British Columbia: "I just wanted to tell you that as a small business owner in British Columbia, it is a pleasure to finally have a business-friendly government in power.

As part of a group of the people who are truly paying the bills in this country, we couldn't be happier. Thank you." This one is from a gentleman in Burns Lake whose sign

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0304pm-18
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0304pm 18
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	bc446009c1a6c51b72fe4cd2f344b38d9549ffd1

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).