VOL. 3 PRELII1INARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. FRIDAY, MAY 8, 1981 NO. 36

May 8, 1981 The House· met at 10:00 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Tape No. 1374 Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS so - 1 MR. SPEAKER: MR. STIRLING: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I last asked the President of the Treasury Board (Dr. Collins) what action he was prepared to take about t~ teachers' strike,he reported to this House that since the strike vote was now being taken they had suspended their operations until they could get the results of the strike vote. Well, the results have now been announced.

Can the President of the Treasury Board now. tell us what action he is prepared to take today? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I checked just a little while ago as to whether there was an announcement in regard to the strike vote and unless the hon. Leader of the Opposition wishes to give me indication of information that he has that is not available to us, the information I have is that there has not been any notification either to the Department of Labour and Manpower or to Treasury Board from the NTA as -- a result of the strike vote.

Now I am not by any means implying a mandate has not been given, I am not implying that whatever. I am just saying that we have not been notified so I just make that correction. In regard to whatever action we are prepared to take, I think I have already answered that in the past and that is that the NTA,when we last met with them,or at least when they last met with the conciliation officer, they indicated that when they did get a mandate- 3636

j May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1374 SD - 2 DR. COLLINS: if indeed they did; ·well,I suppose even if they did not - that they would come back to us and we as~ that they would come back to us quite promptly after the situation was clarified one way or the other , and we said that we would be willing to continue the discussions that had been ongoing last week. So that is where it still stands. MR . STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER (Si.mms) : of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Supplementary, Mr. Sp~aker. Supplementary, the hon . Leader Mr.

Speaker, I realize that this government is very, very touchy about getting official letters and they sit and hope nothing is going to happen until an official letter comes in . But now, Mr. Speaker, this indicates a bit of a different position than they were taking with NAPE. Do I understand the President of the Treasury Board (Dr. Collins) to say that he is prepared to 3837

May .a, 1981 Tape No. 1375 EL - 1 MR. STiRLING: improve his offer to the teachers and that he has told the .. teachers that,prior to actually going on strike,he is pre- pared to sit down and negotiate a change in the government position? Is that what the President of Treasury Board is -saying? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, I certainly can con- firm that we said we would discuss p;nd we would negotiate through the conciliation mechanism in place with the re- presentatives of the NTA, What the substance of those neg- otiations, those discussions will be I cannot foretell. That is what the discussions are all about. Now if the hon. the Leader of the Opposition feels that this is the wrong way to go, that is his opinion and he can hold his opinion and I am not particularly concerned about what opinion he does hold.

I know that we have our way of dealing with our responsibilities and we will continue to deal with the res- ponsibilities,. our duties, as we see the broad context of things and as we see the flexibilities available to us. And to date I would point out that our success rate in this matter is very high. The numbers of public service workers who now have a new contract enters into the thousands with a large number of bargainincr units and I can say - SOME HON. MEl-1BERS : Oh, oh ~· MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! DR.

COLLINS: - that except in the heat of negotiations, our relationships with these bargaining units have been very good indeed. During the heat of negotiations obviously there are stands taken, there are statements made, but .that is the process, and if people do not understand that _J they are being terribly naive. But the point is that to date we have been very successful in our discussions with them and we anticipate and hope that we will continue to be succ- essful. 3838

May 8, 1981 MR. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Tape No. 1375 EL - 2 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the Yes, Mr. Speaker, I think the President of Treasury Board has put his finger on the pro­ blem. One of the main reasons, as he is going to see,that there is almost unanimous support of the association is that at the annual convention this year -these negotiations have been going on since last August.

They have worked a whole year, the year is just about over,and they were given the impression by the negotiating team that something substant­ ial could be offered 1 and this was to their annual meeting. And then after they got away from the publicity of the annual meeting, it was found, well,they did not really have any­ thing to offer. And now What I am asking the President of the Treasury Board is since this is such a vitally important thing for all of this Province, are you now truly going to be flexible~ A~e you going to enter into negotiations?

And what appears to be the new style for this Government is that after you go on strike,serious negotiations start. Are you now prepared to negotiate in a flexible manner? 3839

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1376 DW - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): DR. COLLINS: The hon. the Minister of Finan 'ce. Mr. Speaker, I regretfully say that the hon. Leader of the Opposition's remarks only underline the paivete he has in this area as other areas. is apparent in so many SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, there are antagonists - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! DR. COLLINS: - there are antagonists in this s,ituation as there must be. On one side sit the NTA and on the other side sit government.

That is the very nature of col- lective bargaining: There is an employer and there are employees and by the very nature, by the essence of the thing 1 there has to be an approach of contention there. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! DR. COLLINS: Now this is to be expected and this is the way it works. Now, Mr. Speaker, there are other antagonists - SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! DR. COLLINS: There are antagonism between the Opposition and government. But I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this does not put the Opposition in the same position as the NTA.

The NTA can take positions which are quite right for them to take. The Opposition, although they are in opposition to governrnent,they should not be taking the same oppositions. They must show a sense of responsibility,as government shows a sense of responsibility in terms of what g.overnment has to do and the flexibilities and the financial situation of government. So for the Opposition to align themselves totally with the NTA, I would say, is irresponsible and naive and that is why I point it out to the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stirling). 3840

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1376 DW - 2 DR. COLLINS: We will take a very positve, we will take a very responsible attitude towards our continued negotiations if they do come about with NTA as we have taken in the past. MR. L. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): of the Opposition. MR. L. STIRLING: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. Leader Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the P~e~ident of Treasury Board (Dr. Collins) has done what he can do today.

I would like to turn now today to the other person responsible for education who has insisted, unlike the President of Treasury Board, that there is going to be no strike and that she has taken all the action to avert a strike. I will ask the Minister of Education (Ms.

Verge) if she can now tell us, if she can now assure us of the questions that have been asked in this House all this week and that parents are asking all over this Province: what con­ tingency plan does she have to reassure the students that they will be given credit for their work and what action is she going to take to make sure that the Grade XI students,in particular,are not going to suffer because of this govern­ ment's attitude of just sitting on their hands? Could she fill in the public on what she plans to do? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MS.

VERGE: Mr. Speaker - Oh, oh: Order, please: The hen. minister. Mr. Speaker, this government, through the Education Department, through Treasury Board, through the Department of Labour and Manpower,have been applying our best efforts to see that the issues which remain outstanding between the NTA and the parties on the 3 8 41 ....

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1376 ow - 3 MS . VERGE: other side, government and the Federation of School Boards, are successfully resolved. As for safeguarding the interests of students, of course that is a paramount consideration in addition to looking a ·fter the interests of the taxpayers and voters of this Province. I have answered these questiombefore . There were a series of these questions at the Estimates Committee hearing yesterday morning. It is obvious that students will get credit for the work that they have done so far in this school.

As to the mechanics, you know, I am not in a position now to get into a detailed discussion . The Federation of School Boards, which is having its annual meeting here in St . John's now,is discussing the situation. But, you know, I can assure people that the interests of students are being considered as paramount. As for public examinations for Grade XI , I have to repeat again that now public exams are given on~y for Grade XI, not for lower grades. ~nd they determine half the final marl< for 3842

\j May 8, 1981 MS. VERGE: Tape No. 1377 ) NM - 1 Grade XI, the other half being based on teach~rs' evaluation of the school work done through the year. So I am confident that we will be able to find a solution to the dispute but we have to think first of the students and try to prevent any withdrawal of services. MR. SPEAKER {Simms) : The hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, the minister has indicated that she is perhaps taking some action and that public examinations are given in the Province, but I would also like to tell her, and I am sure she is aware of this, that part of th ~ evaluation of students is done by teachers somewhere between the last of May and the middle of June. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Question! Question! MR. SPEAKER: Order! MR. TULK: Now in the event of a strike then, wbat ~or what contingency plans does the minister have for that? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr.

Speaker, I would think that teachers and principals and different school boards have different ways of doing their evaluation. Most - a good evaluation - would be done through the year from the Fall through the Spring. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! Right. Right on. MS. VERGE: The public examinations, to get back to that, which do determine half the final marks under our system of shared evaluation,are already set, everything is proceeding on schedule.

Th.e marking has always been done by teachers in the Summer months, July and August, under arrangements which are completely separate and apart from the collective agreement which is now in dispute. The rate of pay for the markers was recently substantially increased and indications 3843

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1377 NM - 2 MS. VERGE: which I have gotten from teachers are that teachers are quite pleased with the new rate of pay for the marking of public exams. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please! MS. VERGE: So, you know, even looking at the worst possibility there is no reason to think that public exams will not be given as usual and that the Grade XI students will be evaluated, will be allowed to proceed with high school graduation and their lives. MR. TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: for Fogo. MR. TULK: A supplementary, the hon. member Mr.

Speaker, I am not talking to the minister about public examinations . I am talking to the minister about shared evaluation where schools have full evaluations and the schools give out the promotion certificates and the graduation certificates.

Now in the case of shared evaluation and full evaluation in schools, then that is going to be done somewhere in the last two weeks in June.Now are we looking at a situation where students this year, if the strike is on, are not going to be receiving their diplomas, are not going to be eligible for university because they do not have them, and what plans does the minister have in case that strike comes off~ We hope it does not but in case it does what plans does the minister have? Does she have any? MR. WARREN: None. None. None. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr.

Speaker, I do not think I can be much plainer than I have been already. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 3844

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1377 MS. VERGE: Grade XI students' work is evaluated on the basis, number one, of the work they do during the year. Now that evaluation is done by teachers throughout the school year on the basis of 3845

May 8,1981 Tape No. 1378 AH-1 Ms VERGE: performance day to day in a classroom,onthe basis of tests which are administered from time to time-in the Fall, at Christmastime, in the Winter and in the Spring. Many teachers would be in a position to give a pretty accurate evaluation now and in many cases that is documented. The other half of the mark is based on the public exams which are administered by the Department of Education onder the arrangement I have already described, which is quite separate and apart from the collective agreement now in dispute.

So we have these two sources on which to draw for evaluation of Grade Xl students on which to determine their high school graduation and their entrance to post secondaryeducational institutions. MR. TULK: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : A supplementary. The hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I am well aware of the fifty per cent evaluation that is done in public examinations and I am also well aware of the fifty per cent that is done in schools, MR. WARREN: You were a teacher,were you not? MR.

TULK: But the fifty per cent I am concerned about is the fifty per cent that is done by teachers in school and i t is usu al ly summarized - i t ~s -----not usually,it is summarized at this time of the year. Now if the minister does not have a plan,will she tell us she does not have a pl an?And if she does not have a plan, will she get one and quit being so naive? SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. Ms VERGE: Mr. Speaker, just yesterday I was talking to the superintendent of the school board which 3846

) May 8,1981 Tape No. 1378 AH- 2 MS. VERGE: formally employed the hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) and he assured me that that school board has on record documentation for students ' work so far this school year . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for LaPoile. Hear, hear! I thank the hon. gentlemen for the applause. Now, Mr. Speaker, 1 am sure that we were all concerned recently,prior to the Premier's departure for the Caribbean, wewere all concerned about the threat on his life and the security and so forth of the Premier.

Would ' the non. gentleman tel l .JlS.-G!' briniJ lie up t ~ on that situation, tell us if he is now under surveillance by bodyguards and by security and to what extent? Would the hon. gentleman also indicate whether 1 when he is travelling within the Province df he has to take bodyguards w·ith him or security people with him and if he is travelling outside the Province within the Caribbean and in California and so forth,do the bodyv guards and the security go along with him? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is a very sensitive area in which to respond in a specific way.

Suffice it to say now additional security measures have been taken over the last number of weeks and remain in effect 3847

May 8, 1981 Tape 1379 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: as of this moment and will continue into effect and will be re-evaluated on sort of a daily and a weekly basis. I do not know where the hon. member gets California. I did take a vacation with my family to the Caribbean. I do not know where California entered into it. MR. NEARY: I did not enter anywhere. I am just using it as an example. PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh. Well, because the hon. mernoer mentioned California rather than anywhere I had to then respond to wonder why he was talking about California. So there are security measures in effect right now.

The extent to which they will be utilized when I travel has to be finalized. There has been no finalization as to whether in fact there will be special security measures put into effect when I travel. That has not been finally arrived at or decided upon. But there are additional security measures in place right now at this present moment that were not in place a month ago and they will remain in place for some time to come but will be evaluated on a daily and a weekly basis.

I will just go on to say that stories and information that were released some time ago about certain matters and certain threats- let me just put it to the hon. member this way - have not necessarily subsided and therefore that is the reason why these measures have to continue but will be reviewed on a daily and weekly basis. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): member for LaPoile. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hen. the MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am genuinely concerned about this. I just threw in California. It could be Germany, Boston, anywhere. But the question really that 3848 . ...

May a, 19:81 Tape 1379 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: I wanted the hon. gentleman to answer is if it is necessary to take bodyguards or security, whatever they · call them, when he is travelling outside the Province and inside the Province, and if it has been -established that these calls were not crank calls, that these calls were of a serious nature and serious enough to have to provide the Premier with'round-the-clock security. Is that the situation? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: As it relates to travel, from this day forward, either in the Province or outside the Province, final determination has not been made as to whether special security measures should be taken but it will be made in the next few days. That is number one. Numbe~ two, there is now special 'round-the-clock security in place over and above the normal security that was available all along. So there is special security in place right now.

Thirdly, on the point of crank versus serious, there is evidence more recent that what has been publicly known to suggest that it is of the more serious variety rather than of the crank variety. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: I wonder if the han. gentleman could elaborate, because the reports that were making the rounds were that these were mainly crank 'phone calls 3849 '

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1380 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: because the government increased the price of beer but now it seems to be a little more serious than that. Does it involve organized crime of any kind? Do the authorities think it is just a local situation? Does it involve anybody outside the Province, organized crime or anything of that nature? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : SOME HON. MEMBERS : The hon. the Premier. Oh, oh. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I cannot go any further than I have gone to the present moment on that matter.

I think I have tried to provide as much information as I can to the hon. member to this point in time. Suffice it to say that there are special security measures in place at the present moment on a twenty-four hour basis and they will continue, that there has been additional information over and above the original information which leads us to continue to initiate these special security measures. Whether this will go so far as to put in place people to accompany me when I go outside the Province or inside the Province, that has yet to be determined over the next couple of days.

But there is additional information which has led to the continuance of that special security that was started a number of weeks ago. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary, the hon. Would the hon. Premier indicate to the House whether this special security just involves the Premier as an individual or does it involve any other ministers or any other members of the House?

Is there any indication in the new evidence th.at has been uncovered that $Omebody may be out to get s.ome other member of the House, a ministe;r;;> And would the hon. gentleman also indicate, in my last question, if the security is necessary when going from hls home to Confederation Building or going from his home 3850

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1380 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: to the supermarket or things like that? Does he have to have security for that sort of thing? MR. WINDSOR: Why do you want that information? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh 1 oh! MR. NEARY: I beg your pardon? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! MR. WINDSOR: Why that information? MR. NEARY: The what? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. WINDSOR: Why do you want to know that? It is very confidential. MR. 'SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: No, no. The Premier does not mind answering that if he has to have security to go from - MR. WINDSOR: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: know that.

MR. WINDSOR: MR. NEARY: for it. MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: Why do you need to know that? - Confederation Building - Order, please! - to his house. I think we should I do not know why. Why should we not? We are paying The hon. the Premier. I have given as much information as I am prepared to give at the present time. If I thought it was in the public good, and that is a judgment call I have to make, then I would provide additional information. SOME HON. MEMBERS : . MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUSH: Hear, hear! The hon. member for Terra Nova . Mr. Speaker, I want to direct a question to the Minister of Education (Ms.

Verge) re the s with the government. In view of the fact that a vote has now been taken, and unless the minister did not get up as early as the President of Treasury Board (Dr. Collins) to hear the news, the vote is taken 3851 ·'

May 8, 19:81 Tape No. 1380 SD - 3 MR'. LUSH: and it is highly supportive of the strike . So in view of that, in view of the fact that the vote has been taken, in view of the fact that the minister has no contingency plans in the event of a strike, and in view of that fact, of course, that the minister, that one of her jobs must be taking care of the interests and the welfare of teachers, in view of these things, I wonder if the minister can tell the House what steps she will. now tak.e to ensure that a strike is averted? Nc ~ what steps she has taken , but what steps --she will now take . 3852

May 8, 1981 MR. S'EAKER (Simms): MS. VERGE: up very early this morning. Tape No. 1381 EL - 1 The hon. the Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, first of all, I was I heard the radio news but I have not received any official notification of the ·result of tile teachers vote. Secondly, I have never said that there are no contingency plans. What I have been saying all along is that rather than acting,as members opposite,in expectation or even in hope that there is going to be a withdrawalof services - MR. LUSH: ,.;o siree. SOME. !lON.

MEXBzyS : Yea .tn.daed~ Ms.1 VERGE: -I am trying to concentrate my efforts,as are my colleagues on this side of the House, to being conciliatory,to trying to resume talks to work out a settlement,and I think that is what the parents and the students we are elected to serve want us to do. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, some weeks ago when the strike was on at the College of Trades and Technology,the Minister of Labour and Manpower (J.

Dinn), to demonstrate his support to these workers, signed a petition or signed a card that was circulated by the group. I wonder if the minister, in her position,whose responsibility, as I said, is to look after the interests and the welfare of teachers, I wonder if the Min­ ister has done anything to indicate to the teachers her support for their present financial circumstances and their fight with government to get higher salaries? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. 3853 ;,

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1381 EL - 2 MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, as a member of government I am interested in and concerned about the welfare of all the people we serve and I am working as a member of a team,that is,the government,to work out a satisfactory settle­ ment to the present dispute. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. THOMS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for Grand Bank. A suppleme.ntary, to the Mini~ter of Education. The minister yesterday in the Estimates Committee - it is hard to hear myself speak on my own side of the House, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

THOMS: Yesterday before the Estimates Committee,the minister indicated that up to that point in time she had not been involved in the negotiations. It was an involve­ ment between Treasury ~oard, the shcool boards and the NTA and now she is giving - is the minister now giving an inference that she has been involved,because yesterday you said you had not been involved up to this point? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, we went through this at great length yesterday morning. MR. THOMS: and again! 1 MR. SPEAKER: MS. VERGE: And we will go through it agajn Order, please!

And what I said, I did not say that I was not involved point blank. What I said is that I had not been involved on a negotiating committee. The negotiating committee for government and the Eederation of ~chool Boards comprises government officials, a representative of my department with whom I have. daily contact, and a representative of the Treasury Board. 3854 .....

May 8, 1981 MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER (Sinuns): for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Tape No. 1381 EL - 3 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Education (L . Verge) a question - ~ffi . FLIGHT: It is so amusing, boy. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. LUSH: Mr . Speaker, yesterday I asked the minister a question about the fact that the government unilaterally interfered with the teachers ' collective bargaining act last year and the minister 3855

May 6, 1981 Tape No. 1382 NM - 1 MR. LUSH: acknowledged that that was indeed a fact. Mr. Speaker, I think it is probably one of the first times in modern day unionism that a particular group of workers had their positions taken away unilaterally and without any consultation with the union or the workers. The minister indicated that there would be some compensation, Can the minister indicate the degree of compensation, whether it will be the total compensation that these principals and vice-principals lost, or whether it is just going to be partial compensation? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister of Education.

MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, this matter of the co-ordinating principals and vice-principals positions is one of the outstanding issues in the collective bargaining dispute. I did not say what the hon. member attributed to me. What I said is that this matter was raised by the NTA after the event- I do not know when, sometime last Summer, last Fall when talks began on working out the new agreement. Since then the matter was referred to an arbitration board.

The arbitration board decision,which I cannot go into in any great detail, basically indicated that legally the action taken was correct but that the people involved, that is,the co-ordinating principals and vice-principals, must be compensated for the period from the end of the last agreement which was the end of August 1980, until when the new agreement is signed, because in the absence of a new agreement the old agreement continues. So for that period there has to be some compensation for the people affected.

The amount of the compensation, according to the arbitration board decision, should be attempted to be worked out between the parties as they talk and negotiate. Failing an agreement among the parties 1 thenthe matter is to be referred back to th.e arbitration board who will settle the amount of compensation. 3856 .-.. ..

May 01 19.81 Tape No. 1382 NM - 2 MR . SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. member for Fogo . MR . TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . As I understand that thing,that was perhaps - the public legislation is perhaps one of the outstanding issues still left in the teachers' efforts to get a contract .

I would like to ask the minister that in view of the fact that last year the government did do away with a teaching position in this Province, namely supervising or co- ordinating principals, many of those teachers are very upset about somebody coming in and interferring with their security of position while the contract is in place, has she indicated to Treasury Board that she is solidly behind the teachers in see.king that public leqislatio;t in thei;r present contract? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr.

Speaker, you know I have already said that I am working as part ~f a team,which is the government, and what I have said, you know, is said within the 3857

May 8, 1981 Tape 1383 EC - 1 MS VERGE: secrecy and confidentiality of the Cabinet process, and I am quite confident that reasonable actions have been taken to date and that we will continue to strive collectively as a government, Treasury Board, the Education Department, everyone else affected, the Department of Labour and Manpower, to see that a settle­ ment is reached with the other parties in the dispute.~ SOME. HON . ~·IEMBERS : Oh, oh! "MR. SPEAKER (Siminsl : expired. MR. MARSHALL : Order, please! Order, please!

The time for Oral Questions has ORDERS OF THE DAY Order 9 .• ~otion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act,", (Bill No. 47). MR. SPEAI<ER: The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. D"INN: Mr. Speaker, it gives me a great deal of pleasure this morning to introduce another great Tory reform - SOME RON. MEMBERS : Rear, hear! MR. DINN: - another great step forward. Mr. Speaker, we have introduced many reforms during the past couple of years. Just to mention a couple, Workers' Compensation for fishermen MR. THOMS: You would have some cheek to claim that. MR.

DINN: The hon. member is not interested in that although he represents Grand Bank, but I can assure the hon. member that the fishermen in Grand Bank are interested in that. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. A point of order has been raised by the hon. the member for LaPoile. 3858

May 8, 1981 Tape 1383 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I know the hon. gentleman did not deliberately make that statement, but he is misleading the House when he says that this was a Tory reform, this Workers' Compensation for fishermen in this Province. 3859 . ....

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1384 DW - 1 MR. S. NEARY: ~s a matter of fact, workers' compensation for fishermen was brought in by the Liberal Government prior to 1972. All this crowd did was amend it, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : I think I have heard enough. I understand what the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) is trying to do but it certainly does not constitute a point of order. and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: The hon. Minister of Lab0ur Mr. Speaker, I think most of the people in the Province will agree that we have all heard enough from the hon. member for LaPoile. So, Mr.

Speaker, we have intro­ duced several great reforms in workers' compensation not the least of which was to cover all fishermen in Newfoundland. Also, Mr. Speaker, in the past couple of years we have increased compensation to the workers in Newfoundland from 14,000 to 16,000 - MR. T~OM~ _; _ Get to the bill. MR. J. DINN: I am making some introductory remarks. I will get to the bill now in a minute if the hon. member will permit me. From $14,000 ~er year to$16 1 000 per year and also from$16,000,another increase of$3,000, to$19,000 per year, so that, Mr.

Speaker, the concern for people on Worke~3' compensation in this Province by this administration, is unprecedented in the number of years that we have been involved. Now, Mr. Speaker, this bill this morning orginated some years back when there was concern expressed by school boards and various educational institutions. And the Minister of Education (Ms. Verge) who got together with the Department of Justice, the Department of Labour and Manpower, the Department of Education, the Worker3' Compensation Board 3860 .-.,•

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1384 ow - 2 MR. J. DINN: got together and came up with an amendment so that students who are working in this Prov­ ince as a result .of work training programmes put on by the Department of Education and educational institutions in the Province,would be covered by Workers' compensation for the first time in the history of Newfoundland. As a matter of fact,we almost made it first again. It was almost a first. Another province did introduce this bill before. The Prov­ ince of Alberta, another great, of course, Tory administra­ tion, introduced the bill out in Alberta.

They have workers' Compensation for students in work training programmes. Although we are usually first in application of new initiatives in Workers' Compensation.we are second this time. We have also, Mr. Speaker, in the works,a review committee on Workers' Compensation headed by the former Chairman of the Worker's Compensation Board, Mr.

William May1 who is going about the Province getting ideas from the people, getting input from the people from all dis­ tricts in this Province,so that by the end of this year he will be making recommendations to me as minister and I will, of course, take them to government so that more new initiatives in workers' compensation coverage and in other areas will be brought into this House of Assembly for approval of the members, the representatives of the people. Mr.

Speaker, needless to say with the things that have ·happened over the past couple of years in workers' compensation alone, one would have to admit - even hon. members opposite would have to admit - that we have made 3861

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1385 SD - 1 MR. DINN: great strides forward. We can call them steps, I prefer to call them strides. What I am talking about here now, Mr. Speaker, is Bill No. 47, the meat of Bill No. 47 What the hon. member wants me to get into I will now get into. The meat of Bill No. 47, as I said, the history of it goes back to the concern of the Departments of Education, Labour and Manpower, Justice, various school boards.

The hon. member will know various school boards in the Province, educational institutions in the Province, the College of Trades and Technology, the community colleges because of concern expressed - I have twenty minutes, Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER (Simms): You have an hour. MR. DINN: - I have an hour? - hecause of the concern expressed that students be covered - there was an insurance programme in place but we did not feel that that was adequate.

So we felt that the way to do it, the way to cover the possibility of a student being injured while working in a work training programme, the way to do it would be to cover these students by Workers' Compensation and any monies paid out by Workers' Compensation for students injured in these work experiences, work training programmes, of course, will be paid for by the government of the Province. So, Mr.

Speaker, this bill, this amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act will cover students in the College of Trades and Technology, the College of Fisheries and Navigation - as it says in the bill - Marine Engineering and Electronics, the Bay St. George Community College, District Vocational Schools, Mr. Speaker, and i.t will cover up to the compensation available to workers who would do jobs in industry so that the maxi:murn compensation will be exactly the same as any worker in the Province in that for a total disability, for example, we 3862

May 8 , 1981 Tape No. 1385 so - 2 MR. DINN : would have - and please God, Mr. Speaker, we will not have any serious accidents or injuries in these work training programmes. We have a very, very good record up to this point in time . As a matter of fact, I do not believe there have been very many, if any , recorded accidents on these work training programmes. So I am hoping , of course, that will continue. But in the event that it does not that we do have accidents during these work training programmes then,of course,the student, the person, will be covered by Workers' Compensation.

This has been a long time in coming, Mr. Speaker. It is one that should have been done years ago but, Mr. Speaker, I am delighted 3863

May 8,1981 Tape No. 1386 AH-1 MR. DINN: to be able to say today that we are now in a position to bring this piece of legislation forward and hope that,of course,all hon. members will agree and that we will give speedy passage to this piece of legislation so that workers will be covered in the work training programmes that they will be involved in. So, Mr. Speaker, last year when I introduced the amendment to cover all fishermen in the Provine:: - MR. NEARY: An amendment? I thought it was

an act you brought in not an amendment. MR. DINN: - to cover all fishermen in the Province for workers'compensation then , Mr. Speaker, we had serious cases reported to us. One case, one very serious case that is being reviewed now is of a £~sherman in Labrador who is totally disabled. If the arrendrrent last year had been passed fast enough ,then he would be covered by workers' a:xnpensation. And, Mr. Speaker, of course we are reviewing that case and we would hope that there is something that government can do for that individual.

The history of fishermen and people being affected by these injuries - this one gentleman who was brought to my attention by the hon. the minister from Labrador, the hon. Mr. Goudie from Labrador 1 and the member for Labrador, the member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock) brought it to my attention as well and,of course,we are reviewing the case and hopefully - MR. HISCOCK: Reviewing it? (inaudible) two months and five months (inaudible) . MR. DINN: We were reviewing it for a long time, yes, and as a matter of fact 1 the act as was passec last year,cannot cover that individual situation but we are 3864

May 8,1981 Tape No . 1386 AH-2 MR. DINN: attempting now, not in this particular amendment here today, but we are attempting now to find a way so that the hon. gentleman's constituent I can be covered by that amendment that we _passed here in the House last year. It is a very serious incident and one that was brought forward to me by- as a matter of fact, several people and several organizations have written letters as well as the member for the district.

The first letter , I believe, that I received on the gentleman's behalf was - well,the first letter was from the gentleman and then the next one was from the hon. the Minister from Labrador (Mr. Goudie) and then the member and the Premier as well. So then we are reviewing that and hopefully we can do something about that gentleman's situation. This here, Mr. Speaker, is another bill and I hope we do not take too many days in passing this very important piece of legislation.

I think if we had acted quickly the last time we brought in an amendment with respect to the fishermen, and I realize that people had things to say and wanted to expound on what things should happen in workers' compensation, if we had implemented the legislation the last time, if it had been proclaimed just thirty-six hours, I believe, the bon. me~ber's constituent - I believe it was thirty-six 3865

May 8, 1981, Tape 1387, Page~ -- apb MR. DINN: hours late that gentleman would have been covered. And hopefully we will pass thiS" very important amendment to th.e Workers~· Compensation Act very, very quickly·. One would even think that we might get i.t through today. So, Mr. Speaker, this started - the amendment took years in corning in, it took too long, it took much too long getting to this House and hopefully it will not take too much ~vnger before students will be covered. As I say, it originated by concern expressed.

The insurance programme that was available to students . was deemed to be not acceptable not enough coverage, and the Department of Educati.on in conjunction with school boards, I believe, and concerns expressed by the different colleges, and communi.ty colleges and so on, got together with Labour and Manpower, Workers' Compensation and Justice, of course, and we got this amendment brought into the Hous~ and, as I say, hopefully this great step forward will be passed as quickly as possible so that we will not have a si.tuati.on as we had last year with. an hon • . member ts constituent in Labrador, one that we are attempting to work on.

I do not believe we can do it wi.thin the legislation passed because of the date proclaimed, but I can asS"Ure the hen. member that we will work on that case and hopefully we. can resolve it. Because it is a very, very seri.ous si.tuati.on of a fisherman who worked all of his life and just happened to miss workers' compensation by· th.i.rty- six hours. It is the kind of th.ing that hon. members of the House would have nightmares over because . it is a very serious total disability case, and it is one that we might have to - MR. STIRLING: special act. You should make it a 3866 •·

May 8, 1~81, Tape ~387 , Page 2 -- apb MR. D:mN: - tlie hon, the L~der of the Opposition, we might have~ to address llere in this House . · And if that is the only way, then that is what we will ~ave to do. But it is a case. that we should be very concerned about . This is another sLtuation luckily, up to this point in time, and there has to be a certain amount of luck., because you cannot be ~00 per cent safe. In any ~ork. training programme or anytliing that you dot you cannot be 100 per cent safe.

We have an excellent record to thi..s point in time, but I do not know if we are marking time i n a sLtuation like this, if the possibility of one of these acci .dents actually · llappe .nS' and we have somebody very seriously injured and the.y have minimal coverage by insurance, which: is, as every..,. body knows now, inadequate, hopefully they will 0e covered by Workers' Compensation when thi..s amendment and hopefully this- amendment wi..ll go through - goes through . So with. that, Mr . Speaker, I move second reading ·A 3867 ,. '"

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1388 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. member for Terra Nova, the Deputy House Leader. MR. LUSH: For some time now, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) has been trying to find - MR. MOORES: Sit down and listen now. MR. LUSH: - an issue on which to hang his hat, trying ·to find an issue on which he can get a reputation. Well, Mr. Speaker, the hon.

Minister of Labour and Manpower missed that opportunity this year when he could have demonstrated how strong he was, when he could have demonstrated how concerned he was about the people of this Province when we had the labour problems and still have them. And every time the minister speaks he indeed demonstrates, Mr. Speaker, how weak and ineffective he is. That is what the minister does. But yet he has been trying to get an issue. Another issue that he tried to get onto,of course,was the labour statistics over the last few months because they looked a little bit favourable.

The minister was getting up and commenting on that, you know, and we know the minister has got no more effect, no more influence on what is happening to the employment in this Province, all he is merely doing is just reading off the statistics like a newsman reads off the weather forecast in the morning. And, Mr. Speaker, if they happen to be good,of course,the minister jumps up and down. Of course,thatiSthe only time he reads them.

But as far as his having any influence on the creation of jobs in this Province, not one little bit of effect, no more effect on that than he is having with respect to establishing a good labour relations climate in this Province. 3868

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1388 NM - 2 MR. LUSH: So, Mr. Speaker, the minister missed his chance, missed his chance to demonstrate to the people his concern, and to demonstrate whata powerful minister he could have been. He missed that with the labour situation when the government forced the support workers at the College of Trades and Technology to go on strike and to remain there for eight months. The minister missed a golden opportunity there, and another opportunity by forcing the teachers of this Province to their knees to get a reasonable increase. So, Mr. Speaker, the minister has not got an issue yet. Mr.

Speaker, we are going to support this. It is simply an amendment, simply an amendment and the minister talks about it as unprecedented legislation. Well 1 let me tell the ~inister, let me tell the minister that the un­ prcedented legislation'with respect to the Workers' Compensation was brought into this House long before the minister was a member, long before the minister was a member. MR. FLIGHT: MR. LUSH: He was stilla Liberal (inaudible). The unprecedented legislation, Mr. Speaker, was brought in by the Liberal Administration. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: MR.

LUSH: The unprecedented legislation with respect to Workers' Compensation, that is who 3869 . ~ ·

May 8, 1981 Tape 1389 EC - 1 MR. LUSH: brought it in and everything since then simply has just been an amendment or an extension to another piece of legislation. There has been nothing historic, there has been nothing unprecedented, just, Mr. Speaker, simple amendments, simple extensions. MR. MOORES: Righ .t on! MR. LUSH: But, Mr. Speaker, we agree with this particular amendment, we agree with this particular ex;.~nsion of cove .rage to students in the various post-secondary institutions. Certainly, we agree with it. But, Mr.

Speaker, let us not let this minister get away with that kind of nonsense, that kind of unmitigated twaddle that here we have unprecedented legislation. Well, Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the unprecedented legislation was brought in long before this minister cameon the scene because if it were not, I am afraid the workers of this Province would be in desperate straits right now - MR. NEARY: Right on! MR. LUSH: - if we had to wait for this crowd when we can see their callous attitude and their attitude of insensitivity towards the workers of this Province - MR. FLIGHT: Uncaring. Uncarinq. MR.

LUSH: -when we can see that, Mr. Speaker, bringing all of the workers within the Public Service right to their knees, Mr. Speaker, to get a reasonable increase in these times of terrific inflation. MR. FLIGHT: MR. LUSH: to the ground. MR. FLIGHT: MR. LUSH: Grind them into the ground. .Mr. Speaker, grinding the people And that is what - Right. I fully support teachers, Sir. I say it publicly, I fully support teachers. If I were the Minister of Labour, if I were the Minister of Education, if I were the 3870 ·""'

May 8, 19-81 Tape 1389. EC - 2 MR. LUSH: President of Treasury Board, the negotiationswouldhave . heen all over with not today, but six or seven months ago it would have been over and done. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: And it would have been all over. And the teachers would be back in the classrooms today working happily and the parents would be happy. There would be no threat of a strike if the hon. member had any influence at al~. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. LUSH: If I had a position in government we would not be in this situation.

There would be no strike vote taken, it would not have been necessary. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. LUSH: something! MR. MOORES: them back to work. MR. LUSH: MR. MOORES: MR. CALLAN: MR. NEARY: MR. LUSH: You would give it all away. Ah, give it all away! That is Wait until you try to legislate That is the attitude, Mr. Speaker! Wait until you make that move. Give it all away! As if he owned it all. They gave it all away to A. B. Walsh. The hon. member, Mr. Speaker, need not try to demonstrate his concern on little matters like this - important, yes, but not unprecedented legislation.

And the attitude that they demonstrated to the workers of this Province clearly indicate that if we had to wait for this crowd to bring in unprecedented legislation, we would have been a long time waiting. We would have been a long time waiting, Mr. Speaker, for unprecedented legislation. This is not- this is simply an amendment and let us not forget that. This is simply an amendment and it is not unprecedented legislation. But, Mr. Speaker, inasfar as the amendment goes, giving 3871 .....

May 8, 1981 Tape 1389 EC ~ 3 MR. LUSH: coverage to the students in certain post-secondary institutions, the College of Trades and Technology and these institutions, certainly we will support it. But, in so doing, we have to point out certain weaknesses, Mr. Speaker, within this particular department that we are now talking about, the Department of Labour and Manpower. Also, Mr. Speaker, I would hope that the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) would look at other areas with respect to the Workc~a' Compensation. Mr.

Speaker, there is still a lot of - what shall I say? - a lot of iniquities within that structure of compensation to workers who receive injuries, workers who have had accidents. I receive complaints all the time, Mr. Speaker, and it seems as though it is a tremendously hard job for people to iron out things with the Workers' Compensation. When a man or a woman receives an injury, it seems as though it is an awfully long drawn-out process to receive I any kind of permanent compensation, the kind of red tape that these people have to go through. Mr.

Speaker, sometimes you wonder if they are not treated less than human beings. I have witnessed so many cases where people have had to go through all sorts of trouble, all sorts of worry, all sorts of 3872 ..... ~.

May 8, 1981 Tape NO. 1390 EL - 1 MR. LUSH: red tape to iron out their fin- ancial matters with the Workers' Compensation,be it the loss of a leg or the loss of an arm or the loss of an eye. Mr. Speaker, it is tremendous. It is absolutely ridiculous, it is inhumane the kind of red tape that these people have to go through to prove that their leg is gone, to prove that they will not get sight from an eye that they have lost and all this sort of thing. So, Mr.

Speaker, this is the kind of thing that the Minister of Labour and Manpower (J .Dinn) should be looking into to see that the guidelines are more flexible with respect to compensation to workers who have received permanent injuries in particular. And, Mr. Speaker, it is a tremendous job it is a tremendous hass- le for a person who has received an injury going back and forth to Workers' Compensation practically all the time and into ·a constant hassle. As I say, I have them on a yearly basis, people coming to me and seeking my ~ssistance, yes on a daily basis. People I can name, I can name off cases now, Mr.

Speaker, three in one community,of good working men who have received injuries and they have to be coming back and forth two and three times a month, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that their money is kept at a certain level. One minute they are being placed on one form of compensation and another min­ ute they are on another. One minute it is temporary,6ne minute it is fulltime temporary and the kind of examinations and the kinds of questioning they have to go through to maintain that money, it is absolutely ridiculous. so; Mr. Speaker, we need legislation. We need more legislation, Mr.

Speaker, before the workers' Compensation is put in order. So, 1Mr. Speaker, just let me say, and I will clue up my remarks on this, that as far as this 3873

May 9, 1981 Tape No. 1390 EL - 2 MR. LUSH: amendment goes, we on this side of the House certainly, we are going to support t-is amendment, Mr. Speaker, but there are many more improvements to come yet before the minister can talk about unprecedented legislation, Mr. Speaker. And we hope that we will see more improvements. We will support any kind of measure, Mr. Speaker, that is going to benefit the people of the Province, the ordinary workers, we are going to support it. MR. MOORES: Right on. MR. LUSH: We are going to support it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

LUSH: Do not let the minister come in here and talk about unprecedented legislation and Tory reform, Mr. Speaker, Tory reform. These two words, that expression, Mr. Speaker, is as contradictory as Progressive Conservative. It is as contradictory as Progressive Conservative. Tory reform, Mr. Speaker - MR. FLIGHT: No such thing. MR. LUSH: - it is as much an unlikely combin- ation, Mr. Spaker, and as imcompatible as peaches and gravy, I say. Mr. Speaker, as I said, the unpre- ·I cedented legislation was brought in long before this member was ever a member of government. But, Mr.

Speaker, we welcome this amendment and we are sure that the students who will re- ceive the benefit, they too will welcome it but we would like to see more legislation coming in here to benefit the workers, Mr. Speaker, the thousands of workers throughout the Province who still need legislation to make things a little more com- patible, to make things a little more hunmane for the workers of this Province who suffer accident and injury on the job. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ~ SOME HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. 3874

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1390 EL - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : The hon. member £or LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to congratulate my hon. colleague on such a spirited address to the House this morning. I found it very interesting and it was an excellent pres.entation, Mr. Speaker, and I was especially intrigued by his - MR. HANCOCK: He got two good ones, 'Steve ' . MR. NEARY: I beg your pardon? MR. HANCOCK: He got two good ones. MR. NEARY: He got two good ones, did he - by his analysis of what the Minister of Manpower (J .

Dinn) means by the introduction of a great Tory reform. Now, what is this great Tory reform that we are tCl,lking about? It is an amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act. Last year, the minister who app - arently is obsessed, he has himself convinced that every minor amendment that - 3875

May 8, 1981 Tape No.l391 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: he brings into this House is a great Tory reform. That will just go to show you, Mr. Speaker, how bankrupt this crowd are of ideas. When you bring in a simple amendment to

an act that has stood the test of time,

an act that was brought in back in 1950 by the Liberal government of that day, the Workers' Compensation Act, that indeed was a reform, that was a major reform. MR. TULK: All they can do is fiddle around. MR. NEARY: As a matter of fact, the Liberal government of that day brought in the most progressive Workers' Compensation _Act in the whole of Canada. MR. TULK: And all they can do is fiddle around. MR. NEARY: The Liberal government of that day, Mr. Speaker, brought in a Workers' Compensation Act that was in operation in the Province of Saskatchewan.

And as everybody knows,Saskatchewan at that time had an NDP government. Mr. Tommy Douglas was Premier of Saskatchewan and they brought in in Saskatchewan some of the biggest social reforms in the whole history of Canada,including Medicare. Medicare was born in the Province of Sask~tchewan, and members will recall that the doctors,for the first time in the history of Canada, the doctors went on strike in Saskatc~~wan against that great reform - Medicare. That is where it started,in Saskatchewan.

The Workers' Compensation Act was the finest in the whole of Canada at that time and the Liberal government in its wisdom adopted MR.MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : A point of ord~r, the hon. President of th.e Council. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh., oh. 3876 ...

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1391 so - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : The han, the J?re~i.dent of tb.e Counc~l on ~ point of order. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this bill is the extension of Workers' Compensation to students which We are discussing. That ~s the principle of the bill, and I fail to see the relevancy, Mr. Speaker, of what the hon. member is talking about about Hedicare in Saskatchewan, about Mr. Douglas when he was the Premier of Saskatchew~n. I notice, Mr. Speaker, propensity for the hon. member to dwell in the past.

He talks about the previous Liberal administration more and more as he goes on 1 so perhaps he would be better off to remove himself to the old Colonial Building which happens to be the archives if he wants to get talking about that. But while we are conducting this, Mr. Speaker, we have a matter of relevancy to be considered, relevancy in the principle and the purpose of the bill. the hon. member is not addressing himself to. MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the House Leader (Mr. Marshall) never ceases to amaze me.

He told me that he pricked his finger on a thorn this morning and obviously it had an effect on his head. MR. NEARY: He is rather te~ty, a.J.,.r~. gh..t, MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the hon, member for LaPoile [Mr. Neary) is merely giving some background information on the original Workers' Compen~ation Act and thi.s is an amendment to that original Workers' Compensation Act. Mr. Speaker, I submit that the member for LaPo~le ~s totally in order, that the House Leader opposite is doing nothing only trying to disrupt the business of the House , MR.

SPEAKER: To the point of order, the Chair has been very flexible in allowing broad~ranging discussion on second reading,and I am sure the hon. member was pref~cing 3877

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1391 SD - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : his remarks and leading up to the -- -- amendment which concerns the students and so on so I ask him to continue ·. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. hear. MR. NEARY: That is co:t;"rect, Mr. Speaker, because as Your Honour will recall,it was the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) who told us it was a great Tory reform and I am merely commenting on that. It was the Minister of Labour and Manpower who told us that this reform now ties in with one that was brought in last year in connection with workers' compensation for fishermen. I did not bring it up, Mr.

Speaker, and so what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and Your Honour is absolutely correct. And so, Mr. Speaker, what we have before us in this Province today is a Workers' Compensation Act that was brought in by the Liberals back in 1950. It is one of the great reforms and I could go on,if I was permitted in this debate, Mr. Speaker, I could go on and spell out all the major reforms that have been brought in by a Liberal government in this Province. So what we are seeing now,here today,as we saw last year with the Workers' Compensation amendment for fishermen - and I might add, Mr.

Speaker, that the minister 3878 (

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1392 DW - 1 MR. S. NEARY: continuously gives incorrect information to the House on workers' compensation for fish­ erman. It was a Liberal Government prior to 1972 that brought in coverage for fishermen under the Workers' Compensation Act. And all the minister did last year was amend that Act, that is all the minister did. MR. MORGAN: We had ten (inaudible). MR. S. NEARY: The coverage was brought in by the Liberal Government and all the minister had to do was to amend the Act. And all he has to do now under this coverage that he is giving the students at the College of Trades, the College of Fisheries, the vocational schools is just a simple amendment to

an Act, to a Liberal Act. All they have been doing is amending. We laid the founda­ tion. We laid the foundation back in the early fifties. and all they are doing is fiddling around with it. And, Mr. Speaker, this amend­ ment is a necessary amendment. It is something that any government would do under the circumstances because, as Your Honour knows, students being paid for undergoing training is something new. They have never been covered under the Workers' Compensation Act - another Liberal reform by the way - paying students for going to school to get an education.That is a Liberal reform.

We paid students for going to the university ~o get a university education, we paic students for going to the College of Trades and Technology, to the vocational schools . - they get their federal and provincial allowances - and for going to the College of Fisheries. All Liberal reforms, every one of them! And it is so obvious that the next step necessary, is that these students who receive payment _ not the ones who receive payment - those who receive payment for further training, while they are undergoing training, then 1 they should be covered under the Workers' 3879

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1392 OW - 2 MR. S. NEARY: Compensation Act. And that is what we are doing here today. We are making a simple amend­ ment to the Workers• Compensation Act. Now,if the minister, Mr.

Speaker, if the minister had brought in an amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act making it compulsory for employers to give their employees back their jobs when they have been off on injuries,then I would say that he would be doing something very worthwhile because as members know - and I have had numerous requests, numerous complaints during the last several years about employees who were injured on the job, received workers' compensation for several weeks or several months or several years and when they went back to their employer, the employer in a cold and callous fashion said, 'There is no job for you, no job for you'.

Mr. Speaker, is that right? Is it just? Is it fair? What is the minister doing about that situation? Not a thing! Zero! Zilch! Maybe in a short while, Mr. Speaker, the Liberals may get a chance to do something about that, in the next year or two, as soon as we have an election. But, Mr. Speaker, every employee who is injured on the job receives workers' compensation and when he goes back to his employer 1 the employer should provide him with a job. They should provide him with a job and they are not doing that at the present time. MR. TULK: slavery. It is almost like white MR. s.

NEARY: It is almost like white slavery, that is correct. How many people AN HON. MEMBER: money. They use you and rob your MR. S. NEARY: Yes, that is right, they are being used. How many people have come to members of the House? How many have complained to the minister that they could not get their job back even though they had a 3880 c;

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1392 DW - 3 MR. S. NEARY: clearance from the doctor that they were fit for work, in some instances only fit for light work? But these companies, especially the big companies discriminate against them and say, 'I am sorry no job for you. You were a good man when you were on the job. We used you but now that you have been away on workers' compensation, we have no job for you'. It should be compulsory for an employer to either compensate a man who is injured on the job as long as he is unemployed,or they should provide a job for him. And that is only fair, Mr. Speaker.

Now,if the minister had done that I would say he would have done something very worthwhile. If he had come into the House and extended the coverage under the lung problems that arise in the factories and mining industries of this Province, the same coverage as they have in St. Lawrence or as the St. Law­ rence miners have, if the han. gentleman had come in and brought in a bill to include Labrador City under that coverage and had given the former miners on Bell Island-they had been given the same privilege as the ex-miners in St.

Lawrence, I would say the han. gentleman would have been doing something very worthwhile. The former miners in St. Lawrence get the preferential treatment and rightly so. But that coverage should be extended to include former miners of 3881

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1393 NM- 1 MR. NEARY: the Bell Island mines, and the miners in Labrador City and Wabush. MR. TULK: The Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) got about as much power as the cheque signer over there . MR. FLIGHT : And Buchans. MR. NEARY: And Buchans, I forgot about Buchans. Silicosis is a big problem. It is a big problem and I guess I just reminded my han. friend of it now and he will be making his points about it too. MR. STAGG: Asbestosis. MR. NEARY: Asbestosis, all the mining - I said all the mining industry. But, Mr.

Speaker, they have to be almost on their deathbeds before the Workers' Compensation Board will give them any recognition. It is safe to say, Mr. Speaker, that over on Bell Island today,my former country­ men, that there are a large number of middle-aged and elderly men walking around with silicosis. I do not think there is any question about it. No question about it. They are walking around with silicosis. The doctor diagnosed it back in the early days as angina, or asthma, or bronchitis, anything to ~et the company off the hook~ anything to get the company off the hook but really what it is is silicosis.

You have the same thing in Buchans. You have asbestosis in Baie Verte 1 you have silicosis in Labrador City and Wabush 1 and Mr. Speaker, no coverage. No coverage! It is not good enough. If I had to have the time I would have gone down to Mr. May's Royal Commission while they were sitting in St. John"s, but it so 3882 ....

May 8, 1981 Tape No . 1393 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: happened - I really intended to go, myself and the member for Buchans (Mr. Flight) were going to go down, but I happened to be in my dis .trict at the time of the hearings and I could not attend. AN HON. MEMBER: You could submit a brief. MR. NEARY: You can submit a brief inwriting? Well,I just might do that. But I really think that it should be opened up, Mr. Speaker, and that all of these industries that I have mention~d, the employees should be covered against silicosis. I know it is a very difficult thing to prove.

I remember over on Bell Island we had our own x-ray machine over there, one of the doctors had an x-ray machine in his basement, and they used to always say that the reason you could not detect silicosis in a miner's lung was because of the water supply on Bell Island 1 the water supply affected the development of the x-ray. That is what we were told 1 which was sheer nonsense. Dr. Peters did a study on it after, took all the x-rays from Bell Island and did a study , and I do not think there was any doubt in his mind that what the miners had was not angina, or bronchitis, or asthma, it was silicosis.

I mean,what could you expect when the doctor was on the payroll of the company? What else could you expect? So, Mr. Speaker, these are the kind of amendments that we would have liked to have seen brought in by the minister, And perhaps when the minister is ending up second debate on this bill he can also tell us about some of the things that went on down in the Workers' Compensation during the strike. How many sets of tires did Workers' Compensation have to pay for that were slashed or ruined with nails? How many? Did they replace any and how many? And how much did it cost? And how many parties did they throw?

In what hotels and who paid for them? AN KON. MEMBER: I thought I answered that. 3883

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1393 MR. NEARY: No, the hon. gentleman dLd not answer it because apart from the one r have raised about the one that was held down in the Workers' Compensation office and the one at the Holiday Inn,there were a couple of other parties that were thrown in other hotels. AN RON. MEMBER: Private alsol' MR. NEARY: No, they were not private and that one was not meant to be private either. That one was not meant to be private. AN HON. MEMBER: - one. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please! NM - 3 MR.

NEARY: The hon. gentleman may be soft enough, and naive . enough to think that that was supposed to be a private party, there were other parties paid for in other hotels by the Workers' Compensation Board. And how much was paid out in wages to the scabs during this strike? I. hear, Mr. Speaker, staggering figures, staggering! I hear that the scabs now will be able to buy trailers, 3884

May 8, 1981, Tape 1394, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: they can buy new cars and pay cash for them, th.ey can take vacations in California and Florida and in the Carribean as a result of the strike at the . Workers• Compensation Board, as a direct result of the strike. They will be able to go down by the side of a pond now this ~ummer with their fishing poles and big trailers that are paid for out of blood money because they scabbed their fellow employees who were on strike down at the Workers' Compensation Board. Let us have some figures., give us the information. AN HON. MEMBER: Aak the question.

MR.NEARY: I have . asked the question, I keep asking it, but the minister keeps: evading i.t. Well 1 I am asking the hon. gentleman now to provide the House with all the details, all the expenses. Give us an itemized - 'if I can ge.t the hon. gentleman •s attenti:on, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (_Butt) : Order, please!' MR. NEARY: If I can get the • SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, pleas.e~ MR.

NEARY: If I can get the hon. gentleman•s attention I am asking the hon. gentleman now, when he winds up second reading, to give us an itemized list of th.e amount paid out in wages, broken down on an individual basis AN HON. MEMBER: with this? MR. NEARY: Nhat has that got to do It has. all to do with it, we are talking about an amendment to the Workers:~ Compensati .on Act and we have a ri.ght 1 wh.ile we are doing this:, to ask questions about the- Workers' Compensation 3 8'8 5

May 8, l98l, Tape . ~3 94, Page . 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: Board. The. Speaker already told the han. gentleman that. G~ve us an itemized list of expenses ~eluding salaries and wages paid out to, first of all, members of the board, then to the scabs, and then the other expenses paid out for damage to motor veh~cles etc. and the amount paid out ~ for refreshments and for part~es that were thrown to try to bolster the moral of the scabs. AN HON. MEMBER: vfuat damage are you talking about? MR. NEARY: I am talking about damage to ti~es on cars. AN HON. MEMBER: Who d~d it? MR. NEARY: Pardon? AN HON. MEMBER: Who d~d it? MR.

NEARY: I do not knowwho d~d it. But all I want to know ~s how much it cost. So 1 Mr. Speaker, I support this simple amendment. I will support, I think, any government worth ~ts salt. Any government that was in power today would have to do the same thing. The Liberals, probably, would have done it a long time ago. It took this crowd ten years to realize that the . students at the . College of Trades and at the. other vocat~onal schools who receive payment for training should be. covered under the Workers' Compensation Act. Mr.

Spe.aker, let me say thi.s for this gentleman who ge.ts up and re£ers to this as. another great Tory re.form: The. L.iheral Government of Canada has already recognized students. They allow them to receive unemployment ~surance while they are attend~g these schools. How ~ that for you? How is that for a reform? Students attending th.e College of Trades and the Fisheries College, the Vocational Schools, in certa~ categories, can collect unemployment insurance 3886 ...

May 8, 19.81, Tape 1394, PageJ apb. MR. NEARY: whlle tli.ey are . 9oing to these institutions of higher learning to further thei.r training and education. MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: How is that for a reform? That is a Liberal reform. And that is the Liberal Government of Canada that did that. So if I were the bon. gentleman I would not get up and crow too much about these simple amendments. If that is all the government can boast about, Mr. Speaker, I would say that we are in serious trouble in this Province, Certainly, he comes by that honestly, he gets that from the Premi.er.

Because the Premier told us before the House opened that this was going to be. the greatest session of the House in Newfoundland's history.- Well, we have not seen any evidence of it yet and there is nothing on the Order Paper to indicate that this is going to be the greatest session in Newfoundland's history as far as legislati.on i.s concerned. Most of the stuff we have . seen so far is essential, most of the stuff we have seen is housekeeping, things that in the normal course of events would have to be done anyway.

Just the same. as th.i.s amendment tliat we have here before us now, it would have to be done anyway. Silly Willy would have done the same thing, and I am not referring to the Presi.de .nt of the Council (Mr. Marshalll. But anybody, a kindergarten student in thi.s House would have done the same thing. They have lost the pioneering spirit, Mr. Speak .er. And I only wish, Mr. Speaker - I believe I told the House I was down in Burnt Islands there a few weeks ago with Mr.

Smallwood when he cut the ribbon for the opening of that fish plant and my remark at that time was,to the people who turned out in droves to see Mr. Smallwood cut that ribbon, I said,'It is just like old times again. Just like old times'. I said, 'In MR. NEARY: recent years in this province we have not 3887 .....

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1395 AH-1 MR. NEARY: seen to many ribbons cut, we have not seen to many sods turned'. As a matter of fact, we have not seen any. And we have not seen any oriqinal legislation, Mr. Speaker, but the public debt tripled up to $3.2 billion with nothing to show for it. The scissors must be awfully rusty by now,and that old shovel, that golden spade must be awfully tarnished. If they ever get it out they will have to get - what is that stuff you clean gold with? - they will have to get their Brasso out to polish her up.

There will not be enough Brasso in Newfoundland to polish up the old tarnished spade and the scissors becau~e it is so long, ·it is so long since anything happened in this Province;that a sod was turned or a ribbon was cut or an original idea with a piece of legislation. Mr. Speaker, most times, by the way- MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: factory. MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: We will buy the Brasso. Well 1 we will start a Brasso Mr. Speaker, most times political opinions - Be quiet now, Superport. Well 1 we will get a coffin factory like the administration started out in Stephenville,making coffins.

What happened to the coffin factory? MR. YOUNG: We are still using them. MR. NEARY: You are still using them are you not?But you are importing them. You would not buy them from Mr. Meeker who was going to make mattresses and coffins out in Stephenville. MR. FLIGHT: He was on TV last night. Mr. NEARY: He was on television again last night was he? Every time I see him on television, I do not know if I should laugh or cry with the money he ripped off from the Newfoundland Development Loan Corporation, Mr. Meeker, and then waltzed out of the Province, went into 3888

May 8,1981 Tape No. 1395 AH-2 MR. NEARY: receivership or bankruptcy and. took of for British Columbia and said, good by poor old suckers down in. Newfoundland. And what about the Newfoundland cushion craft? There is a dandy. Mr. Goode,Mr. Crosbie's man was going to make hydro - what do you call these boats? MR. TULK: Hydrofoils. MR. NEARY: Hydrofoils and hovercraft. What happened to that loan now? MR. SPEAKER (Bair~: Order, please! Are we on Bill 47 now? MR. NEARY: Well,I was baited. I apologize, Mr. Speaker. I got carried away with the questions that were coming from the other side.

But he is now Chairman of the Public Utilities Board. What about the money he ripped of from the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation? Are they going to garnishee his wages to recover that or does he go into bankruptcy and into receivership and say 'poor old suckers of Newfoundland, I am down here now holding public hearings and I must not offend the government because they might come after me~ the Mr. Goode.Just imagine,Newfoundland cushion hover - MR. MARSHALL: Try to find 100,000 people now so you can take their character away. MR. NEARY: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I will take the character of anybody who gouges the public treasury. MR. MARSHALL: Do it outside the House. MR. NEARY: I will do it outside, inside. You know, Mr. Speaker, it is alright for the hon. gentleman to get up and to smear a Liberal in this Province,but once we zero in on a Tory hack then we touch a very sensitive nerve. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman is the master, the smear artist, the master of it in this House and I can back it up. Truth is thebest defence. Go and check the 3889

May 8,1981 MR. NEARY: Loan Corporation. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (_Baird): of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: bill is th.e Workers' Tape No. 1395 AH-3 records of Newfoundland Development A point of order, Mr. Speaker. A point of order. The hon. President Mr. Speaker, the principle of this Compensation Bill. The hon. gentleman uses the House from time to time to vent his spleen. I mean,his feelings towards me I can guarantee this hon.

House are reciprocated with double doses, but I do not think th.e House is really interested in how the hon. gentleman feels about me or how he feels about any other person in the House, Mr. Speaker. As I said,there are 500,000 other Newfoundlanders in Newfoundland and we are going to be here a long tirne·if the hon. gentleman is going to be able to abuse the rules of the House on a bill by maligning and taking away the reputation of all the rest of the Newfoundlanders individually. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order. It is a valid point of order and I would ask the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary9 to restrict his . remarks to the bill at hand. Mr. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, we just saw another example of how the hon. President of the Council tries to abuse the rules of this House,hoping that they will pick him up upstairs and give him another little quote. But the people are wising up to the hon. gentleman. The hon. gentleman has been the master of putting up smoke screens in this House to try to distract from the real issues and the hon. gentleman knows what the real issues are. We will hear more about that in due course. I have to abide by Your Honour's ruling and stick to this bill here now.

But I am going to support the amendment, Mr. Speaker. I am going to support it. It is something that comes naturally. It is 3890

May 8,1981 MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1395 AH- 4 something that would have had to be done anyway. We do not need any Royal Commissions or any experts to tell us when we have to amend various acts in this Province . MR. TULK : MR . NEARY: It is funny they never got one though. But as I said earlier , ! would like to see the minister bring in at as early a date as possible,an amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act to ma.ke it compulsory · 3891

May 8, 1981 Tape 1396 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: for employers to re-hire men and women who are injured on the job, who have gone off on Workers' Compensation for a while, carne back and were told, 'There is no job.' Can the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) realize? Just imagine, if the han. gentleman is working for the school board in Port au Port and he gets injured on the job and he has to go off on Workers' Compensation on partial disability or what have you, and he comes back six months from now, that the school board could very easily say to the hon. gentleman, 'We are sorry, we are finished with you.

There is no job for you.' Does the han. gentleman realize that? I think that is shocking, but that is the way the situation is today, Mr. Speaker, and it has to be changed. And it will be changed in due course. The other point I wanted to make before I sit down again is just to reinforce what I said there a few minutes ago about including the miners in Labrador City - Wabush, Baie Verte, Buchans, former miners on Be~l Island and any other community in Newfoundland _ Gullbridqe -any other part of Newfoundland, where there is Y the slightest possibility, Mr.

Speaker, that these men do not have angina, they do not have heart conditions, they do not have bronchitis or asthma, but what they have is silicosis, they have a respiratory condition brought about by the dust when they were working in a mine or on the surface of that mine. That is the problem. Do we have any social conscience at all in this han. House? We recognized the problem in the case of St.

Lawrence miners and rightly so, but only recognized after a large number of men had died through negligence, through a cover up, and eventually the problem was detected by the National Health and Welfare Department of the Government of Canada. I say thank God for that! But how many men are dying on Bell Island today as a result of the twenty-five or thirty, 3892 t ' ...

May B, 1981 Tape 1396 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: or thirty-five or forty years they spent in the mine, and it has been chalked up to a heart condition, bronchitis, asthma and that sort of thing? It is not good enough, Mr. Speaker. It is unjust and I hope that the minister will take seriously what I have said about this matter this morning, and in future amendments in this House he will have no problem to get support from me or, I imagine, anybody on this side of the House if the hon _. gentleman wants to - MR. HISCOCK: ask him does it look after students in summer employment progr~~es? MR.

NEARY: Well, I do not know about students in summer employment programmes; that is a good question to ask the hon. gentleman, if this bill covers students in summer employment programmes. MR. DINN: Yes. MR. NEARY: It does? MR. DINN: I have taken down a couple of questions that hon. members have and I will do . it in my

summary. MR. NEARY: Well, okay, I do not wish to delay the House on this bill, Mr. Speaker. I am going to support the amendment, but I would like to see at as early a date as possible, amendments brought in to give coverage for the )( there a few moments ago. ~~ type of situation that I mentioned SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear,hear! MR. CHAIRMAN (Baird): The hon. the Minister of Education. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! Ms·. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak relatively briefly in support of this bill. I am glad that the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) finally worked his way around to giving his support.

I was somewhat disappointed that both he and the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) were so stingy with their agreement to and support for this bill 3893

~a y a, 1 9Bl Tape 13.96 EC - 3 MS VERGE: which is so obviously a good and progressive measure to compliment a good p.rogramme which is in effect in our schools and colleges. Part of the subject of the bill, of course, is education, and while members opposite profess to have a concern about education and students, I found it odd that they did not 'talk about education. We heard about ribbons, we heard about Brasso1 there was an extensive discussion on the use of Brasso in cleaning gold shovels by the member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary), we heard about hovercraft, manufacturing coffins, but we really did not hear very much about education. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to talk a little bit about education. The principle o£ this bill is to extend Workers' Compensation coverage to students who participate in work activity', work experience programmes, on-the-job training, which is part of their school programmes whereby they leave the classroom, go out to the work place 3894 I•

May B, 1981, Tape l397, Pagel -- apb MS VERGE: and get experience . on the job without remuneration. Now, the arrangements · which have been made to date by school boards or colleges or vocational• schools, have been done with th.e. protection, simply, of accident insurance whi.ch has been arranged by the board or educati .on authority. And, of course, that did not give the students full protection and that is not good enough. ~t is encouraging to note that so far there has bee-n no reported accident on the part of a student taking

part in one of these programmes. We are thank£ul for that and we trust that that si tuati .on will continue. That, I think, is a good reflecti.on on the excellent quali.ty of these programmes. These are programmes whi .ch be.nefi.t students who, perhaps 1 are not academi.cally inclined, who do not have the interest or maybe the ability to pursue academi.c studies and that is normal, natural,to be expected. Not everyone i.s cut out for, nor should they be, to go to uni.versity or to pursue academic studi .es.

Many people are i.nterested in and have the ability to pursue other activiti.es to prepare for other kinds of wor~ and occupations. And I think it is extremely important that our schools make provision for all students and I think we are doing a better and better job of this. The reorganized high school programme, with the flexibility that that i.s providing with the extra options, extra subjects, more diversified offerings for students, is going to cater much better to the full range of students.

No longer will there be undue emphasis on that mi.nority of students who are university bound, we will be much better catering to all the young people so that everyone can get a chance to get prepared for whatever kind of paid job or occupation 3835

May 8, l98l, Tape l397, Page 2 ~- apb MS. VERGE: or life style he or she is suited for, interested in, has the opportunity to take advantage of. And I think the work .-experience programmes.·which this bill compliments are. good. We have them now in a number of our high. schools for special educati .on students. Our work activity programmes have been very successful at Pine Grove School for the mentally retarded here in St. John•s. These programme~ have also been taking place in the vocational schools and colleges and I think they are good. This measure just adds the ne.cessary degree of protection for the young people taking

part in the programmes. I should point out for the benefit of the member for LaPoiletMr. NearyL, though. he is no longer in his seat, that this is an amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act, it is no longer the Workmen's Compensation Act. Because the Progressive Conservative administrati.on, unlike the Liberal admini.stration 1 recognizes that many of the workers, many of our students, indeed about half of our students are females:. As a matter of fact, about a third of the people who are benefiting from Workers' Compensation are women, SOM& HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER (Baird): Order, please~ MS VERGE: I think. i.t is only right to know that what we are talking about is an amendment to the Workers' Compens.ation Act - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. MORGAN: that is right . Hear, hear !· MS VERGE: Ri.ght on!· Workers~ not Workmen ~s, - which i.a goi.ng to· benefit female as well as- male students. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~- 3896 ....

May 8, l98l, Tape l397, Page 3 -- apb MS VERGE: Now, Mr. Speaker, in

summary I would just like to urge that this bill be given speedY' pas·sage. As I said be-fore ., I think i.ts benefits are obvious, that I am just disappointed that the members opposi.te could not work thei.r way· around to clearly stating support for this measure. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Baird} : The bon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I want to have a few words on the bLll. It will be di.ff~cult to raise any new points, the member for LaPoile(Mr.

NearyL did a very good job of touching the areas of concern that we feel for th.e workers of this Province. SOME RON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!' MR. FLIGHT: But, Mr. Speaker, this bill - I have heard the saying in this House, 'a lawyer's dream- could be a lawyer's dream. Any worker in'the work force today covered by Workers' Compensation i.s covered for eight hours re.gardless of what he is doing during that eight hours. If he is stopping back having a coffee break, having a smok .e, if he is on the job, if he- i:s at Iiis place of employment, he is covered.

I have had a student in the College of Trades and Technology who is not manning a band saw, or is not doing something that is relevant to the course he is doing, 3897

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1398 SD - 1 MR. G. FLIGHT: but he is on the campus of the institution. Will he be covered under this legislation, Mr. Speaker? Why is the university left out? lf a twenty­ three year old~why? Mr. Speaker, if a student decides to go - and I am told more students are deciding to go to the College of Trades as . a means of education,they want trades instead of university degrees, it is easy to get a job now if you have a skill than if you have a degree. So, Mr. Speaker, why is the university left out?

The funding, the minister has indicated to me privately that the students covered here will not be required to pay the workers' compensation assessments. Will he assure us that this will always be the case? MR. DLNN; No, I cannot. MR. FLIGHT: No, of course he cannot tell us, Mr. Speaker. And all the students- 1 mean, in the past ten years we have seen the assessment of workers' compensation triple and I am not talking about the assessment of the employer, I am talking about the assessment of the worker. So, Mr.

Speaker, it would make one suspicious and wonder how long - we are watching tuition at vocational schools and at the university doubling. Every means that this governrrent gets to increase the revenue from a student, they use it. Now, Mr. Speaker, it is not in keeping with this government to allow students to get free coverage under Workers' Compensation and we will get the minister in the record telling us that it is indeed free and we will see how long his position stands, Mr. Speaker, before the Minister of Finance CDr.

Collins}, who wants all the dollars he can get, cuts the legs out from under him and assesses the students who are covered under this bill. Now 1 Mr. Speak .er, let me ask the minister something else, while we are on the principle of the bill: Since the member forBaie Verte ~White Bay (Mr. 3898

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1398 SD -' 2 MR. FLIGHT: Rideout), Mr. Speaker, chose to join ranks with the hon. gentlemen on the other side- he was a one issue man on this side, Mr. Speaker, he built his political career on the asbestos programme - AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear. MR. FLIGHT: - on the asbestos problems in Baia Verte. We have not heard a word _about the asbestos problem in Baieverte since the hon. member left. Would the minister tell us what are the results of the studies done in Baie Verte? What are the results of Dr. Silikoff's work with the miners inEaie Verte?

What is being done, number one, to eliminate the problem of the asbestos threats to the workers in BaieVerte? What special compensation has been set aside for the people already affected? Maxbe the minister now when he stands up will tell us what is happening by way of compensation for the miners in Baieverte, for the proven cases or for the ones who have been exposed to radiation, to the ones exposed to asbestos for these past twenty years. The spokesman for these people now sits muzzled behind the minister.

And I have not seen any desire by the minister to stand up in this House and report to this House and to the people of Baie Verte and the people of Newfoundland the results of the studies that were undertaken,because he pressured the minister into undertaking the studies. We still would not have known about the asbestos problems in Baie Verte and the threat to the health of the people in Baie Verte but for the member for Baie Verte (Mr. Rideout). It was a sad day for the miners of Baie Verte, Mr. Speaker, when he decided to cross and allow himself to be muzzled on an issue like that. MR. MOORES: Hear, hear. MR.

FLIGHT: So, Mr. Speaker, it is ancumbent on the minister now when he stands up to give us - 3899 -: . .,._

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1398 so - 3 MR. FLIGHT: he will never find a better bill to tell us exactly what the situation is in Baie Verte. And then, Mr. Speaker, we will undertake to compare his version of what the status in Baie Verte is with the version of the miners who are still there 1 or the ~fficials who are still there . And the minister can take advantage of this particular bill to tell us about the studies in Labrador City that we have not heard very much about this past six or seven months . Whatare ~tr . Mulrooney and the minister saying, are they talking about it?

The minister is a member of the committee, Mr. Mulrooney is a member of the committee - MR. R. MOORES: AN HON. MEMBER: Do not lie. Chaixman. MR. FLIGHT: - Chairman of the committee, maybe he will tell us when the last meetinq was held. Just how serious is the dust problem in Baie Verte? And how many miners in Labrador City - Wabush, how 3900

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1399 EL - 1 MR. FLIGHT: many miners have been proven to be affected? What steps havr been taken to clean up the dust problem in Labrador City­ Wabush? Now, if the minister decides to get up and close this debate, Mr. Speaker, and decides not to address himself and give us the details on this, we will recognize the minister for what he is, in claiming a great Tory reform. Let me ask the minister -the member for Baie Verte (T. Rideout) talked about the former miners.

Well, I want to talk about the present miners, the miners who are working underground now,with silicosis. miners who have been moved out from underground in the past seven or · eight months with silicosis. MR. DINN: (Inaudible) MR. FLIGHT: Miners certificate, that will tell vcu hew naive the minister is. If he can find a miner in Buchans with a miner's certificate, Mr. Speaker, I will never ques­ tion him again on anything. Miner's certificate~, what nonsenset A miner who worked in Buchans in the forties, Mr.

Speaker, and drilled dry for twenty years, and ate More dust than the minister ever walked over,had no miner's cert­ ificate but he got silicosis and the minister knows he has silicosis and the doctors that treat him know he has sili- cosis but what do they say? Angina. You have to have a - what is the word?- a biopsy, you have to have a - is it biopsy; Yes, you have to have a biopsy in order to prove or disprove that you have silicosis. Well, too many miners, Mr. Speaker, and I am talking about Buchans 1 too many miners accepted the biopsy theory. They had the biopsy and six months after there was a funeral. MR.

MOORES: That is right. 3901

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1399 EL - 2 MR. FLIGHT: And the miners in Buchans today, a good many of them, people who are fifty-five, sixty years old with silicosis, are refusing to have biopsies. Now, what about those people, Mr. Speaker? Does_ the minister support the Workers' Compensation Board and the doctors and say you have angina? You cannot breathe but it has nothing to do with the fact you worked for thirty-five years underground, nothing to do with it. Nothing to do with how you you drilled dry for ten or twelve years before they had water underground. MR. MOORES : Nothing at all. MR.

FLIGHT: Nothing to do with the forty years you spent in an environment where you could not see your work­ mates. That has nothing to do with it. Your lung problem has nothing to do with that, it is an angina problem, it is some respiratory problem that you would have had had you been a member of the House of Assembly for twenty-five years. That is what the doctors are saying. The man, Mr. Speaker, the miner - I have a little compassion for people w4o have done that. AN HON. MEMBER: . (Inaudible) problem. MR.

FL-IGHT: The hon. member should keep his mouth shut, or he should come in and look at the conditions of the people I am talking about. He could not care less, Mr. Speaker. If there was an accident on a trawler working out of the hon. member's district or if there was a drowning, he would be up here, Mr. Speaker, telling us how all Newfoundland should be concerned about the conditions on boats. Well, I am as concerned about the conditions in mines and I am concerned about the people who are going around with no lungs. So, Mr. Speaker, the member should keep quiet. FIR. PATTERSON: Tell us about the phosphorus. MR-.

FLIGHT : Tell us about the phosphorus. Tell us about your concern for what might be happening at 3902 . '

May 8, 1981 Tape No . 1399 EL - 3 MR. FLIGHT : the phosphorus plants from · an environmental point of view~ MR.BARRY: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR . FLIGHT: and Energy (L. Barry). MR. SPEAKER (Butt): MR. FLIGHT: Houston. Do not be so sanctimonious. Oh, oh! Let me tell the Minister of Mines Now, Mr. Speaker, - Order, please! The minister is just back from MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FLIGHT: Now, Mr. Speaker, obviously there is not as much sun - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I would like to remind hon. members that they should make their remarks to the Chair and I believe the hon. member was getting into another debate - MR. FLIGHT: No, Sir . MR. SPEAKER: - with the han. the Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. FLIGHT : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, obviously as I said the minister is just back from Houston and there is obviously not as much sun in Houston as there is in the Carribean and he is jealous of the Premier's tan. Mr. Speaker, he appears to be very touchy. As Minister of Mines and Energy , he should be more concerned about what I am talking about because he knows it is true.

If he were doing his job he would come to Buchans and he would talk to the miners who are going around in there who cannot breathe and cannot get any workers' compensation. Mr. Speaker, that is what the Minister should do. MR . BARRY: (Inaudible) more about that before you were ever concerned. 3903

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1399 EL - 4 MR. FLIGHT: And Mr . Speaker, here is what a miner anywhere in Newfoundland has to go through: If his employer takes him out of underground, he cannot do his job anymore, he cannot breathe well enough to do his job anymore, chest pains, he cannot breathe, do you know what they say to him? They bring him in, x-ray him, go through the motions and say, 'Oh, yes, well, you have got a problem, you have a respiratory problem. We cannot let you go back to the mines, we are going to give you light work. We will put you on compensation for three or four months and then light work' .

Now, Mr. Speaker, you tell me how a miner in Buchans or a miner anywhere else can get light work in this Province when we have 3904

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1400 DW - 1 MR. G. FLIGHT: 15 to 16 per cent unemployment rate in this Province, where you have robust young men, fifteen or twenty robust young men looking for every one job that becomes available 1 light or heavy _? How does a man, how does a miner who has lost a leg or lost an arm ,or any workman in any walk of life, get a light job? What is the minister's version of a light job in Newfoundland? The only light jobs available, Mr. Speaker, in this Province,the ministry are using their political influence to put people into those light jobs, the soft jobs.

I have notheard tell of any ministers appointing miners,but I have heard of a lot of ministers appointing a lot of people to light work that some injured workman could have taken. But now, Mr. Speaker, let me stay on the silicosis concept re the workers' Compensation Board. There are hundreds of miners, Mr. Speaker, in this Province who need better treatment from the Workers' Com­ pensation Board than they are getting. The minister knows it. Now1 he wants to talk about reforms, he wants to talk about reforms. Mr.

Speaker, this government have been running this Province for ten years and he talks about a reform, he brings in an amendment to a piece of legisla­ tion. This problem was brought before the ministry ten years ago, Mr. Speaker. The first speech, the first word I ever said in this House, . the first time I made a repre­ sentation to a minister privately,it was on behalf of the miners specificilble in this case, specific individuals. That was five years ago. How is that for reform, Mr. Speaker? There was not a word, we have not heard a word from the ministry.

We have seen no indication from the -~wo~kers' Compensation Board that they are prepared to address them­ selves to the problem. They know they have hundreds of miners going around this Province whose lungs are gone, 3905

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1400 ow - 2 MR. G. FLIGHT: loaded with dust as a result of twenty - five years underground. And the onus is on that miner , Mr . Speaker, the onus is on that man who probably has an educa­ tion level of Grade three or four, who worked for thirty or forty years in the mines, the onus is on that man to prove that he has not got silicosis. The onus is on him to prove he does not have it. The onus is not on the Worker's Com­ pensati on Board to prove t hat he has not, the onus is on him to prcwe it. And itow does he prove it? He submits to a biopsy that may or may not be conclusive, Mr. Speaker.

And that is a crime ! It is a crime, Mr. Speaker, that there are fifty and sixty year old men in this Province today who cannot breathe, who are in misery all the time. It is a crime! It is a crime, Mr . Speaker ! MR. F. STAGG: Do not call it a crime! 39 06

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1401 NM - 1 MR. FLIGHT: It is a crime. It is a crime perpetrated - it has been a crime up to this day. If the minister does not change it,it will continue to be a crime. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me talk about - I want to talk about something else here, Mr. Speaker. MR. STAGG: MR. MOORES: MR. FLIGHT: (.Inaudible) • B~have now 'Fred'. Let me talk about something else here relative to injuries in the work place. MR. STAGG: MR. FLIGHT: MR. STAGG: MR . MOORES: MR. FLIGHT: that - MR. MOORES: is saying. MR. FLIGHT: work place - MR. MOORES: MR. FLIGHT: Do not point your finger. one of the problems, Mr.

Speaker - (.Inaudible) . No,that is not true. That is not true. One of the problems, Mr. Speaker, is He is merely emphasizing what he - is that there is an injury in the Billy Graham does it all the time. - and a man sees his local doctor, and the local doctor refers him to a specialist in St. John's, and Mr. Speaker, the specialist in St. John's sees him and sends him back home and says, "Look, you do have a serious problem. You have a back injury. We may have to operate. We may have to do anything. So we will wait to get you a bed." I know of cases, Mr.

Speaker, where one and a half years, eighteen months Workers' Compensation was paid 3907

May 8, 1981 MR. FLIGHT: get a bed in St. John's. MR. MOORES: MR. FLIGHT: Tape No. 1401 NM - 2 while that worker was waiting to Absolutely true. Mr. Speaker, a year ago the Minister of Health (Mr. House} indicated to this House that there were going to be eight beds set aside for the sole use of Workmen's Compensation recipients. MR. MOORES: Workers'. MR. FLIGHT: Workers' Compensation recipients. Eight beds set aside so that if there was an injured worker anywhere in the Province MR. MOORES: That is right. MR. FLIGHT: - waiting to get hospitalization, that those beds would be there.

That has not been done, Mr. speaker . It is not done. There are 300 beds in the Health Science Complex that are available 1 of course,if a doctor, Mr.·Speaker- and it is interesting to note that the Workers' Compensation Board doctors are the most highly sought after doctors in this city. The specialists, Mr. Speaker, not only are they on call to the Workers' Compensation Board, which is a good thing, because to me that means that the workmen are getting the best medical advice possible. But it is a bad thing in this sense, Mr. Speaker, you have to wonder who the doctor's loyalty is to. MR.

MOORES: No, not the orthopedic surgeon. MR. FLIGHT: The orthopedic surgeons, Mr. Speaker, the orthopedic surgeons retained by the Workers' Compensation Board are the most qualified, the best in Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker. And because they are the best,they have got their own practice, Mr. Speaker, not Workers' Compensation Board clients 1 they have got their own patients. MR. MOORES: That is right. 3908 I •

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1401 NM - 3 MR. FLIGHT: And there has been lots of evidence, Mr. Speaker, there has been lots of evidence MR. DINN: MR. MOORES: MR. FLIGHT: - one full time. No, not an orthopedic surgeon. There has been lots of evidence, Mr. Speaker, that Workers' Compensation Board cases have been given second place and that the injured workers have waited and waited and waited. Obviously it is the kind of an injury that is not terminal, you know, it is a back injury, it is an arm injury, it is a neck injury that the man can live with for six months. But, Mr.

Speaker, there are - and when you go to that surgeon, and I have gone representing injured workers, you go to that surgeon and you finally get him, you finally get him on the phone after a week or two, after you get around his answering service~ the tendency is always to blame it on the hospital, to say there was not a bed available. "I cannot bring him in unless I can get a bed." So you go to the admissions officer in the Health Science Complex and they say, "Oh, no problem with beds. It is up to the doctor when he decides to bring Mr. Jones in." Well, Mr.

Speaker, it is encumbent upon the minister to get that act together, to straighten this out because it is a real problem. And, Mr. Speaker, there are right now, this day, workers all over this Province waiting to get in a hospital bed in this city and have been waiting for over a year, all over this - And,o£ course, Mr. Speaker, of course we get it both ways in this case,because while the man is waiting he is on full compensation which may well be $1,000 a month. The treatment that he would have gotten when he came into the hospital may have meant that we saved $1,000 a month.

When the minister talks about how efficient his Workers' Compensation Board is and how fair they are - 3909

May 8, 1981 Tape No. ) 40] NM- 4 DR. COLLINS: Is the Liberal member (inaudible). liJR'. · FLIGHT·: Now, Mr . Speaker, tnere is another little thing I want to ask the minister SOME RON . MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (BUTT) : Order, please! MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I hope the minister is in earshot o£ this because I want to ask him if his Workers' Compensation Board is so efficient, Mr. Speaker - MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) ef£iciency of the Board. MR. FLIGHT: Or proof that we paid a lot of money to a lot of scabs. If this Province wants living proof, Mr .

Speaker, that the scabs in the Worker's ·compensation Board strike cost us a lot of money, then all we have to do is take a letter written by the 3910

May 8, 1981 Tape 1402 F.C - 1 MR. FLIGHT: chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board to a very responsible person in this Province a couple of months ago, pointing out, Mr. Speaker, that there were more claims processed by the Workers' Compensation Board in January and February of this year than were ever processed in the same two months of any other year since they have existed. Now, Mr. Speaker, this point should sink in. The chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board was in a position to tell - AN HON. MEMBER: All that has been changed. It is changed every year. MR. FLIGHT: That is not changed.

But let us talk about the scabs. There were 118 people off work so somebody had to be doing the work while they were off and since the Minister of Education spoke up, Mr. Speaker, I must tell her, she should know that she will not find it so easy to replace the teachers with scabs as the minister found it to replace the employees of the Workers' Compensation Board with scabs. It will be a lot harder to get scabs to replace the teachers in the event of a strike than it was to get them to replace the 73 workers at the Workers' Compensation Board. Mr. Speaker, an interesting situation arose here a month or two ago.

A judge in Newfoundland ruled that as a result of a criminal offence on the oil rigs that the jurisdiction lay with the federal government. Does. the minister know where the jurisdiction lies in the event of an injury on an oil rig? Does the minister know that? Is there no question? Does the jurisdiction lie with the Workers' Compensation Board of Newfoundland? Will the Workers' Compensation Board of Newfoundland be responsible for an injury on one of the drill rigs 200 miles off our coast? Or will there be a judgement like we had - it was a precedent - a judgement like we had a few days ago re 3 911

May 8, 19111 Tape 1402 EC - 2 MR. FLIGHT: a minor criminal offence? Are the workers on the drill rigs, Mr. Speaker, subject to the Worker ·s' Compensation Act of Newfoundland? Mr. Speaker, having said those few words, I think there are certain things about the bill the minister is going to have to clarify. He is going to have to explain in detail to me why it is the students at Memorial University cannot be covered under this act. We want his assurance of the cost factor, Mr. Speaker. I can support the bill.

I will support anything that improves the way of life of, and improves the protection that we give our workers, Mr. Speaker, whether they are students or whether they are workers in the work place, miners, drillers I on an oil rig. So we will support the bill. But, Mr. Speaker, I make no apologies for using the principle of this bill to talk about one of the greatest injustices allowed in this Province, an injustice that the Workers' Compensation Board is allowing to be perpetrated. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ~ :MR. SPEAKER (Butt): The hon. the member for Grand Bank. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

THOMS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. DR. COLLINS: I thought you spoke already, MR. THOMS: You know, Mr . Speaker, every time I get on my feet there is somebody dn the other side who says, 'I thought you spoke already.' That happened yesterday. Again, I can assure the han. the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) that I have not spoken in this debate. But if there is anything that sets the devil in me and makes me want to speak, it is the Minister of Finance and the President of The Counc i l (Mr. f.~ arshall) , two of the most miserable people that this Province h.as ever seen. AN HON .

MEMBER: Aw, come on! 3 9 1 2

May 8 , 1981 Tape 1402 EC - 3 MR. THOMS: Oh, there is nQ question . Ask the workers at the Workers' Compensation Board who are the Scrooges in this Province. Ask those who had to go on a starvation diet of water only. Ask them! Go and ask them! Go and ask them who the Scrooges are in this Province . MR . NEARY: If we could only get Marshall on television more often we would win the next election hands down. 3913

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1403 SD- 1 !11R. THOMS: !11r. Speaker, I am glad that the __ _ ::_ _ minister with the calm smile got up, I am glad the !11inister of Education (!11s. Verge), the minister with the calm smile rose and spoke in this debate - !11R. NEARY: The minister responsible for abortions. !11R. THOMS: - because I might have made the mistake, !11r. Speaker, the unpardonable, unforgivable mistake of referring to this act as the WORKMEN'S Compensation Act. I might have made that mistake. For that I might have been called a male chauvinist pig. I just might have been called that,Mr. Speaker.

There are those who would say that and there are those who would call 'the member for Stephenville (!11r. Stagg) a male chauvinist pig. MR. STAGG: No, no. I am the greatest supporter of women's rights across the land. MR. THOMS: Who is getting the anonymous letters from the Status of Women Council, Mr. Speaker? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. THOMS: Who is getting the anonymous letters? MR. STAGG: Love letters. MR. THOMS: I am glad the hon. member is sitting close to the man who is in charge of security around here now. MR. NEARY: He might grab you by the back of the neck and haul you out through the door. MR.

THOMS: Because if a member of the Status of Women Coucil comes through that door, then the hon. member is in trouble . I tell you that after what he said in Corner Brook, I must say I did not - MR. STAGG: The most (inaudible) resource in the whole - MR. THOMS: - I ~- ':_~mit, Mr. Speaker, I did not do too much to deter the hon. member when he was cross- examining the Corner Brook Status of Women group who appeared before the Resources Management Committee. But, Mr. Speaker, I am glad that minister with the calm smile made - 3 91 4

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1403 SD - 2 MR. THOMS: U? all realize - this was her con- tribution to this debate - her contribution to the debate was to tell us that it is no longer the Workmen's Compensation Act, it is now the Worker~' Compensation Act. MR. MOORES: Wonderban. MR. THOMS: And for some reason or other, Hr . Speaker, I do not know why, but that makes the act that much greater, that much more important to the workers of this Privince, that it is now called the Workers' compensation Act. That is enough to make me support it, Mr. Speaker, in inself. I do not need any other reason. Mr.

Speaker, this could be, a blank piece of paper, I would now have to support it after hearing the minister with the calm smile. Mr. Speaker, I am also very happy that the spokesman on labour for this side of the House is in the House this morning - AN HON . MEMBER: Hear, hear~ MR. THOMS: - because if he had not been here I would not have known how this caucus was going to vote. Yesterday afternoon we finished up debating the amendment to the Administration Act. MR. STAGG: Financial. MR. THOMS: We had them on the ropes, we had that crowd over there on the ropes, we had every minister, every - MR. NEARY: MR.

THOMS: MR. FLIGHT: Energy (Mr. Barry)? MR. THOMS: (Inaudible) No, the bon. member is clean. (inaudible) the Minister of Mines and No, the bon. member is clean. And the bon. Minister of Forestry (Mr. Power) he is clean. All the rest that were in the Cabinet, the bon. Minister of Muncipal Affairs (Mrs. Newhook is clean. MR. FLIGHT: An expert with dynamite. MR. THOMS: The bon. Minister of Development 3915 .~'

May 8, 1981 MR. THOMS: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. THOMS: brush - Tape No. 1403 (Mr. Windsor) is not though. Oh, oh! SD - 3 He is tarred with the reprehensible 3 91 6

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1404 OW - 1 MR. L. THOMS: that the Public Accounts Committee referred to. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR . L. THOMS: But, Mr. Speaker, yesterday we debated the Financial Administration Act. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. L. THOMS: Does this have to do with (inaudihle) I am talking about the intro- duction of the honourable petition signers bill. Now, Mr. Speaker, I understood today that we were going to be in here, we will continue to debate the Financial Administra- tion Act. But that is not to be.

No, the Financial Admini- stration Act was too embarrassing, too embarrassing for the government, too embarrassing for the President of the Privy Council (Mr. Marshall) - MR. NEARY: Not the Privy Counsil, the President of the rounsil . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! r-1R. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please! MR. THCNS: - the Executive Counsil or whatever he is. We come in this ~orning and we are now debating an amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act. Mr.

Speaker, it is obviously a deliberate attempt to take the pressure off, to get the pressure off over the weekend and to bring in a piece of legislation that this side of the House can support. But, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education (Ms. Verge) gets up and says, 'I am sorry to see that the spokesman on labour, the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) , and my friend for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). cannot support the legislation without qualification'. They have both stated they favoured the legislation and I am in favour of this legislation, there is no question about that. But, Mr.

Speaker, does that mean that we on this side of the House cannot get up and ask the minister questions,ask him to explain why so and so may not be included? But this is what 3917

May 8, 1981 Tape No. 1404 DW - 2 MR. L. THOMS: is indicated by the Minister of Education (Ms. Verge). She does not want debate, she does not want debate! And we get the same thing from the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall). He does not want debate on legislation that comes before this House. Mr. Speaker, I ask you,what am I doing here? If legislation is not introduced, if legislation is not to be debated,then why a House of Assembly? We would he as useless as the Minister of Education appears to be in her department, a glorified cheque signer. And then I find she cannot even sign cheques. So, Mr.

Speaker, for members ~ opposite to get up and to indicate that we are not to debate legislation seems to me to be a useless, fruitless argument to be used in favour of a bill. But that is the Minister of Education, that is her argument. Her first one was to get up to remind everybody present,and I would suspect, Mr. Speaker, that she would have to remind some han. gentlemen on the other side of the House,that it is no longer the Workmen's Compensation Act. And her second point was that we should just take every piece of legislation that comes before the House and support it by - 3918

May 8, 1981 MR. TH.OMS: MR . NEARY: MR. THOMS: Tape No . 1405 non-participation. Just to please her. What we should have is the NM- 1 Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) getting up and saying, ".Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce the Workers' Compensation Act." It is going to take me a long time to get used to saying that but I promise the minister with the calm smile I will try to do it. S0 the Minister of Labour and Manpower will get up in this House and say - MR. NEARY: The NTA are on to Verge. MR. TKOMS : -Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce

An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act. Maybe we will get the courtesy - maybe shewould give us the courtesy and the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall)would give us the courtesy of allowing our spokesman to stand on his feet and say, "I concur with the hon. minister "_, and then sit down and we take a vote and that is it. That would make the House rather useless. But there have been some good questions asked, Mr. Speaker 1 and I believe that the minister should try to answer them. I am interested in the question on university students. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I have spoken with the minister and he advises that anybody on a work term from the university in engineering would get the - they would get the compensation anyway because they are already remunerated by an employer and they would be entitled to Workers' Compensation by virtue o~ that fact. However, if the university is left out of this - you see an educational institution does not include the university. We have the College of Trades and Technology, the College of Fisheries, Navigation, Marine Engineering and Electronics, we have got 3919

May 8, 1!181