Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Monday, October 17, 2022

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 228

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

Gas prices

L. Doerkson

J. Routledge

Poverty reduction

B. Bailey

D. Davies

Timely access to medical imaging services

K. Kirkpatrick

H. Sandhu

Investing in health services

A. Singh

T. Wat

Private Members’ Motions

Motion 20 — Community safety and role of justice system

E. Sturko

G. Begg

R. Merrifield

H. Yao

B. Banman

B. D’Eith

M. Lee

J. Brar

M. Bernier

A. Walker

M. Morris

MONDAY, OCTOBER 17, 2022

The House met at 10:02 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: R. Merrifield.

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

GAS PRICES

L. Doerkson: We know that affordability is a critical issue in our province,

one that is on the minds of so many British Columbians and is often

discussed in this chamber. However, I find that too often people fail to

understand the gravity and the severity of the situation and the current

reality in British Columbia.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

For example, did you know that more than half of the people in our

province say it is becoming harder to feed themselves and their

families? According to the same survey from MNP, 53 percent of people

say that it is getting increasingly difficult to pay for transportation.

That’s up nine points since just last year. We are in crisis, and it is

impacting everyone in British Columbia, but particularly our most

vulnerable.

An area of particular concern is the rising cost of fuel. Here in

British Columbia, we regularly hold the unfortunate honour of having the

highest gas prices in North America. It’s staggering that we can let

fuel get so expensive and do so little to address it.

Now, some people argue that these record-breaking gas prices are

entirely the result of factors beyond our control. While world events

have helped to contribute to the meteoric rise in prices over the last

year, it’s important to note that B.C. continues to have

disproportionately high gas prices and no meaningful relief.

[10:05 a.m.]

While gas prices in Vancouver averaged $2.42 a litre last week,

prices in Toronto, Ontario, averaged more than 80 cents per litre less,

at $1.60. Significant price discrepancies like this between B.C. and

other provinces have been the reality for months, but if the blame for

rising prices rested solely on global events, we would expect to see

much more even prices across the country. While other provinces have

taken steps to suspend certain fuel taxes when prices get prohibitively

expensive, we have seen nothing of the sort in British Columbia, despite

many calls for relief.

High gas prices are a problem for many reasons. There is, of

course, the obvious fact that regular trips to the pump are getting more

and more expensive. It really shouldn’t cost hundreds of dollars to fill

a vehicle with gas, but that is now the case for many families. People

shouldn’t have to choose between filling their car with gas or affording

groceries or rent, but it is getting harder and harder to make ends

meet.

Every day I see the impacts of high gas in my riding. In rural

B.C, larger vehicles are common and often necessary for safety and for

practicality. We drive longer distances, often in poor conditions, and

therefore need a vehicle designed for those elements. I’m not sure when

other members of this House have last filled a truck with a tank of gas,

but I can tell you it is certainly not fun. Over the past year, it has

not been uncommon for people in my riding to spend upwards of $200 on a

tank of gas.

Now, for the average person, this is certainly an issue, but think

about the impact that these prices are having on farmers and ranchers in

my region and throughout the province. Not only does it make it harder

for them to stay in business, it is tough to continue to provide the

food that British Columbia residents need. It also means that food will

probably get more expensive as those costs are passed on to

consumers.

This leads to an important truth to realize, which is that rising

fuel prices are not just a problem for people who drive cars. Earlier

this year, when asked about what people should do in the face of rising

prices, the Premier suggested that people should take the bus. This is

unhelpful advice for a number of reasons.

The first is that it reveals the disconnect that too often exists

from this building to the vast majority of British Columbia. So much of

this province is deeply underserved by public transit. You can’t tell

someone to simply take the bus in so many places throughout rural B.C.,

including Cariboo-Chilcotin, because no such bus service exists. Not

everyone drives a gas-guzzling vehicle simply because they want to. Very

often it is because they genuinely have no other practical

choice.

The other problem with that type of advice is that it implies that

the only thing high gas prices make expensive is filling up one’s own

vehicle. In fact, high gas prices make everything else more expensive,

from groceries to housing. Anything that depends on our supply chains

costs more when fuel prices go up. Of course, those who have to drive

regularly are most acutely impacted, but no one is immune to the rising

cost of living and the consequences of skyrocketing fuel

prices.

For months, my colleagues and I have brought the issue of gas

prices forward in this House for discussion, and it has felt like our

concerns have not fully been heard. Today I hope to see a change in this

attitude, and I look forward to hearing from my government colleagues as

to what is being done to address rising fuel prices.

Deputy Speaker: If I might remind the member, this is private members’ time. It is

not the time of opposition versus government, but it’s the time of

private members putting forward their arguments. Then we have others

responding. The time for question period–style back-and-forth is, of

course, later in the day.

L. Doerkson: Thank you for that advice, Mr. Speaker.

I’m actually through with my speech. Thank you very

much.

J. Routledge: Thank you to the Member for Cariboo-Chilcotin for putting gas

prices on our agenda this morning. British Columbians are anxious to

know why gas is so expensive and what we’re doing about it, and I’d like

to provide them with some answers.

[10:10 a.m.]

First of all, this current crisis has been decades in the making

and is largely caused by decisions made beyond our borders.

The oil industry has been called an oligopoly. That is when a

small number of companies own and sell most of the supply, and instead

of competing with each other, they work together to mutually maintain

profits. That’s why when there’s a fire in a refinery in Ohio or when

water levels in the Mississippi River are so low that oil barges run

aground on their way to the Gulf Coast or when Russia invades Ukraine,

gas prices go up in lockstep everywhere.

We’ve been through this before. The first oil crisis occurred in

1973, when Arab states proclaimed an embargo on countries that supported

Israel. Within a year, the price of oil went up 300 percent. It happened

again in 1979, this time sparked by the Iranian revolution.

Our federal government tried to control the price of gas for

Canadians. Remember Pierre Trudeau’s ill-fated national energy program?

Remember when Petro-Canada was still a Crown corporation? Also, remember

when Albertans proudly sported bumper stickers that hoped Eastern

Canadians would freeze in the dark?

Gas prices have long been contentious. But why are gas prices so

much higher in B.C. than the rest of Canada? Again, it’s supply and

demand. It’s baked into our market-based economic system. Simply put, we

don’t refine enough oil in B.C. to meet local demand. We import most of

our refined oil from the United States and Alberta. There are 18 oil

refineries in Canada. More than half of them are in Alberta and Ontario.

The largest one is in New Brunswick.

There are two small refineries remaining in B.C., the Parkland

refinery in Burnaby and the Tidewater refinery in Prince George.

Together they produce only 30 percent of the gasoline, diesel and jet

fuel consumed here.

I say remaining refineries because there used to be a lot more of

them on the Burrard Inlet. Petro-Canada, in operation since 1958. Shell

Canada, since 1932. Imperial Oil, since 1915. All closed. Now, when a

refinery in Washington shuts down for maintenance, our gas prices spike,

and demand continues to grow. A record 100,000 people moved to B.C. last

year alone.

Gas prices are only one component of a cost of living that has

been higher here for as long as I can remember. One of the most hotly

contested debates in the Public Service Alliance of Canada, convention

after convention, in the ’70s and ’80s was regional rates of pay. For

example, a skilled tradesperson working on a Canadian Forces base in

Ontario was paid less than one doing the same job on a base in B.C.

because the cost of living was so much higher in B.C.

What can the provincial government do about it? Some have urged us

to remove the carbon tax. Alberta already tried something like that.

When they discovered that the savings were being absorbed into profits,

not being passed on to the consumer, they admitted defeat and reinstated

the tax.

In B.C., we’ve taken a more structural approach. We recognize that

gas prices are just one component of an affordability crisis. In the

short term, we’re providing direct relief. We’ve lowered car insurance

rates, we’ve provided ICBC rebates, we’ve removed the tolls on bridges,

and we’re boosting the climate action tax credit and the B.C. family

benefit.

Our long-term strategy is to incentivize British Columbians to

reduce our reliance on volatile gas prices and fight climate change

together. Rebates encourage us to purchase zero-emission vehicles. So do

our investments in a network of charging stations. Right down the street

from me, in Burnaby North, Parkland is rapidly transitioning to biofuel.

Already it has the highest biocontent at the pump. They’re world leaders

and are on track to meet 50 percent of B.C.’s renewable fuel

goals.

The world is changing. Our climate is changing. So, too, must the

way we fuel our vehicles.

L. Doerkson: Thank you to the member opposite for your contributions. This is

certainly an important discussion. I had hoped for something different,

and I think millions of British Columbians would have wanted to hear

something else. But I certainly appreciate your thoughts.

[10:15 a.m.]

It has served to reinforce the idea that decision-makers in

Victoria don’t understand that the daily lives and experiences of

British Columbians…. People want to know that government is looking out

for them, that they understand what people are going through and will

take real steps to address the pressing issues. But there is a real

feeling throughout B.C. that critical needs are not being met, from

health care to affordability and everything in between.

I have heard from so many people who were deeply frustrated by the

supposed gas rebate that the member mentioned and that, earlier this

year, came from ICBC. People were upset that it was such a low amount,

equalling only about a half a tank of gas for people in my riding. That

full amount was given to everyone, regardless of whether they had an

electric car or even needed to purchase gas on a regular basis. It also

did nothing to address the underlying problems or the impact on our

supply chains.

In situations like this, targeted relief is key. Over the past

year, my opposition colleagues and I have made numerous suggestions of

relief that could make a real difference in people’s lives. These

measures included temporarily suspending the provincial gas tax and

suspending the hidden import taxes on gas brought into British Columbia

from Alberta — straightforward, economically sound and desperately

needed steps that would help people right now.

Additionally, it’s important to examine exactly what is causing

such high gas prices when we have examples of places, like the Sea to

Sky and the Fraser Valley, which are not subject to many of the gas

taxes applied in Metro Vancouver yet often have gas prices on par or

well in excess of the Lower Mainland. It’s an issue that should be

explored as we look for ways to provide relief during these challenging

times. The simple truth is that far too many people in British Columbia

cannot afford to live here right now. They can’t afford housing, they

can’t afford groceries, and they can’t afford the price of

gas.

As members in this house, we have a responsibility to hear and

acknowledge the significant concerns of our constituents and take real

steps to improve their lives. We know that gas prices are a critical

issue for so many people right now. Therefore, it is the responsibility

of all of us to take action and deliver much-needed relief.

POVERTY REDUCTION

B. Bailey: In March 2019, TogetherBC, British Columbia’s poverty reduction

strategy, set a path to reduce overall poverty in British Columbia.

After 16 years of government prioritizing those at the top and cuts to

social safety nets….

Deputy Speaker: Member, it is private members’ time. Let’s try to limit the

back-and-forth, in terms of criticizing each other. Let’s be focused on

the arguments, rather than arguing with each other.

Please proceed.

B. Bailey: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll adjust accordingly.

In 2016, B.C. was well behind the rest of Canada in regard to

poverty rates for all populations, child poverty and for

seniors.

This strategy wasn’t a wish list. It’s an aggressive strategy,

with teeth. It has legislative targets, timelines and accountabilities.

Specifically, legislative targets are to reduce the overall poverty rate

by at least 25 percent, and child poverty by 50 percent, by 2024, as

compared to the base rate of 2016. Government will prepare annual

progress reports by October 1 each year that describe the actions taken,

progress made and accountability.

An independent advisory committee was appointed to advise the

minister, with representation from all around the province. It includes

advocates, experts, Indigenous people — people with lived experience.

The committee includes a letter in each of the annual reports, outlining

their views on progress made and progress required going forward. The

2021 report was tabled on October 5 in this House by the Minister of

Social Development and Poverty Reduction.

Also, as required by law, the strategy is to be updated at least

every five years, with the next one due March 2022. Engagement to

refresh the strategy will start later this fall.

Let’s get into what the 2021 report revealed. Of course, 2020 was

an extremely difficult year for many British Columbians. From the opioid

epidemic to a poisoned drug supply to COVID-19 and labour difficulties,

climate events and global supply chain interruptions, the challenges

just kept coming.

[10:20 a.m.]

While it remains true that many are suffering and much more must

be done, and despite these national and international trials, some

indicators in this time frame are positive. In Canada, poverty lines are

based on Stats Canada market basket measurement of consumption needs, or

the MBM, which is revised every ten years based on current consumption

patterns. It was last revised in 2018.

In B.C., the poverty rate among all persons in 2016 was 16

percent. The legislative target, 75 percent of that rate, is 12 percent.

By 2019, that rate had dropped already to 11.9 percent. The legislative

target was met. In 2020, the poverty rate among all persons dropped even

further, to 7.6 percent. The child poverty rate in B.C., that of persons

aged 18 and under, was 17.4 percent in 2016. So the legislated target,

half of this rate, is 8.7 percent. By 2019, the child poverty rate had

dropped to 7.3 percent. Again, the legislative target was met. In 2020,

the child poverty rate dropped even further, to 5 percent.

These changes in poverty statistics were life-changing, not just

numbers, for hundreds of thousands of people. Between 2016 and 2020,

almost 400,000 British Columbians moved out of poverty, including more

than 100,000 children.

Before we get ahead of ourselves, we must acknowledge that there

are reasons to be encouraged but also reasons to be concerned. There are

still far too many people living in poverty in this rich, rich province

of ours. Secondly, poverty does not affect all people equally, and more

work is needed in partnership with Indigenous peoples, since they

continue to experience higher rates of poverty compared to

non-Indigenous peoples as a result of racism, discrimination and the

ongoing legacy of colonization.

If we look at the progress made and reported on in the 2019

report, where the objective of decreasing poverty for all persons was

accomplished, this data is largely free from dramatic swings in

economics and world affairs. The result is linked to the work done, and

it’s encouraging to see that determination and well-targeted programming

had the desired results. It shows that without the pandemic and war, our

work to reduce poverty was working.

The large reduction you see in the 2020 report — all persons, from

11.9 percent to 7.6 percent, and child poverty to 5 percent — while very

exciting on first blush, is impacted by additional factors. The report

goes into this in some depth. Both the federal government and our

government had robust policy responses to the income loss associated

with the COVID-19 pandemic, and these are a significant reason that

poverty rates declined so markedly in 2020. Consequently and

unfortunately, these reductions are likely to be temporary, because

these pandemic responses have now largely ended.

Yet as we know, based on the results seen prior to 2020, our

programs are having impact. New programming in this time frame included

making the largest-ever permanent increase to income and disability

assistance rates, doubling the seniors supplement and expanding its

eligibility to reach 20,000 more seniors, making public transit free for

children 12 and under, increasing the minimum wage to over $15 an hour,

introducing five days of paid sick leave for workers, providing new

protections to prevent illegal renovictions, continued investments in

child care and additional support for youth aging out of

care.

In sum, according to the most recent statistics from Stats Canada

in 2020, B.C. has again exceeded its initial targets to reduce poverty.

While those numbers reflect real impacts on people’s lives, these

results trail. We know that this year’s global inflation, the continued

treatment of our homes as a market for wealth generation, and the end of

many COVID benefits will impact our progress.

This government is serious about making things better for everyday

people, and while we have begun to make progress in reducing poverty,

our challenges are greater now than they ever have been. There is so

much more work to do. These reports show us what’s working and what more

must be done.

[10:25 a.m.]

D. Davies: Thank you to the member opposite for bringing this important issue

forward today, especially on the International Day for the Eradication

of Poverty. I am pleased to rise in the House to reflect on this issue,

deeply important to many thousand British Columbians.

Poverty is a problem that affects citizens around the world and

involves more than just money and income. It is a complicated and very

multifaceted issue that affects individuals with different capabilities

and overall well-being. Access to education, health, justice, family and

community supports, and a voice in institutions are all-important to

developing sustainable livelihoods. The challenges for British

Columbians are growing, as they face the ever-growing affordability

crisis, as many are seeing cost of rent, housing, gas, food and many

other of life’s basic amenities skyrocket.

We’ve heard over and over again that 42 percent of British

Columbians are one paycheque away from complete insolvency. To make

matters worse, these health and economic impacts have disproportionately

affected the most vulnerable members of our communities — seniors,

people on the brink of poverty, people that are living with disabilities

and those who are immunocompromised and have been unable to work during

the pandemic.

Many of these British Columbians rely on steady, reliable income,

both federal and provincial assistance, to help pay for things that they

need: rent, gas, utilities, groceries and the other many things that we

need just to carry on our lives. More importantly, these British

Columbians depend on an open and transparent consultation and

notification from their governments about any changes, so that they can

plan accordingly around their budgets.

It means the difference between paying rent or missing a rent

cheque, buying groceries or going hungry, meds or no meds, and it

impacts many other pieces of the budget. You can obviously understand,

Mr. Speaker, why there was shock and disappointment recently when many

folks saw their disability cheques and income assistance reduced without

warning. This puts more pressure on people who are already facing

financial stress and increases the likelihood that they could fall into

poverty or head deeper into it.

In the worst-case scenario, often those who fall into poverty end

up homeless and on the street, as life has become unaffordable. The

latest coroner’s report revealed that while homelessness has increased,

there has been a 75 percent increase in deaths among those who are

unhoused, which is unacceptable. Homelessness has increased, and that

means further lives are being put at risk. Understanding the dangers

that come with life becoming more unaffordable, we must concentrate our

efforts on industries that can help people avoid such risks.

We also need to recognize the importance and value of a strong

economy, which helps fund many of these services and the needs of our

most vulnerable citizens. A strong resource sector is a key part of

this, to create not only jobs but also stability in our beautiful

province. Important job creators and revenue generators in this province

must continue. They’re very important industries like forestry, natural

gas and mining. These effective policies can maintain high productivity

in our natural resources for a high return on the assets for British

Columbians, to help lift people out of poverty.

Many individuals who live in rural areas depend on natural

resources. The B.C. natural resource industry creates large amounts of

direct revenue for the provincial government, which can go toward health

care, education and the other critical social services that we, as

citizens, need and expect. British Columbia must recognize the integral

role that our natural resources play in the provincial economy and

increase investment in the sector to develop this revenue generation, so

that the province can invest this back into people.

As poverty continues to be widespread in our province, we must

continue to work on reducing it, in every way that we can, to ensure the

success of all British Columbians. While there has been progress made in

the effort to reduce poverty, there is still much to do.

I do encourage fellow members to join me in thanking all of those

people who work tirelessly every single day to lift people out of

poverty, to help people, to help British Columbians. We must recommit

ourselves to eradicating poverty in our lifetime.

[10:30 a.m.]

B. Bailey: Thank you to the member opposite for his thoughtful

comments.

When discussing poverty reduction, one of the most impacted groups

of British Columbians are those aging out of care. The late Katherine

McParland, a beloved youth advocate and founder of A Way Home Kamloops,

described youth aging out of care as a superhighway to homelessness. She

once described that as a foster child…. Of her friend group of 30 former

youth in care, 27 were living on the street.

Extending the age that youth age out from 19 to 21 is one of the

most important anti-poverty changes we’ve made in this government.

Former youth in care say that this is a huge change for young people in

the foster care system, as it gives them the time they need to figure

things out.

“I think I could have had a lot more support with my mental

health, and financially,” says Dayna Chapman, a peer navigator with A

Way Home Kamloops. Dayna lived in 11 different foster homes since she

and her sister entered the system in 2004. She says she finally found a

home with her last set of foster parents when she was 17. “I finally

felt like I had a family, like I had a sense of belonging.” But she

describes what happens next. Her social worker came a couple of months

before her 19th birthday and let her know she’d have to find her own

place.

Darien Johnson entered the government care system relatively late,

when she was 16 years old. For Darien, it was being assigned a youth

care worker that she says was the best thing that ever happened to her.

In Darien’s view, assigning a youth care worker to foster children

should happen right away.

The Ministry of Children and Family Development is adding 80 more

transition workers to the system as part of the 2022 B.C. budget.

Unconditional income supports of up to $1,250 a month for a whole year

will be available for young people aging out of care. This is huge, and

the fact that they are unconditional means that youth can work and add

on to this base support. Youth who were in foster care can have their

tuition waived and can access grants to help with post-secondary living

expenses.

Again, these are huge, life-impacting changes. More assistance

with housing costs, accessing youth transition workers, better medical

benefits, free education and life skills programming will be available

until age 27.

Darien says the extension on aging out of care is great, but for

her, it’s having life guidance that’s the most important aspect. She

says: “It doesn’t matter what age you’re let out of care. You’re still

going to be floundering and figuring these things out on your own. I’m

glad there are going to be more supports for youth as well.”

These changes to end the superhighway to homelessness will

profoundly impact youth who have been in care. They create a pathway for

folks to build the life that they deserve.

TIMELY ACCESS TO

MEDICAL IMAGING

SERVICES

K. Kirkpatrick: On October 1, I was invited to an event with the B.C. Radiological

Society for the start of Breast Cancer Awareness Month. It featured the

stories of breast cancer survivors and health care professionals with

the goal of encouraging people to take charge of their health and to

advocate for better access to medical imaging and early

detection.

I understand, Mr. Speaker, that members of BCRS are actually tuned

in today, this morning, to hear what I’m going to say.

I’ll read a quote from Dr. Yong-Hing. “We all work as hard as we

can, but there are not enough ultrasound technicians, not enough

ultrasound machines, not enough breast radiologists. There just isn’t

enough capacity.”

It’s because of that meeting that I chose the topic today of

timely access to medical imaging.

Patients and physicians rely on medical imaging for diagnosis on a

wide range of medical conditions. Medical imaging is an essential part

of the entire health care continuum, and we all deserve timely access to

it. A few months of waiting makes a huge difference in cancer treatment.

The longer the delay, the more likely cancers are identified at a more

advanced stage, which will be more difficult to treat and with less

chance of success.

One in eight women is expected to develop breast cancer during

their lifetime, and there are a lot more than eight women in this House.

So I know this personally impacts a number of us and our families. Of

those diagnosed, one in 30 will die of it.

I was surprised to learn that 85 percent of women diagnosed have

no family history of breast cancer. I also learned from the BCRS event

that wait-lists are putting patients in British Columbia in crisis mode

for medical imaging. This is especially concerning for individuals

needing breast and colorectal cancer screening.

[10:35 a.m.]

Something that stood out for me also in hearing from radiologists,

which I think is worth sharing, is…. It’s estimated that four in ten

cases of diagnosed cancer are actually preventable with the right

lifestyle.

Here are a few things I learned that you can do to reduce the risk

of cancer later in life. Quit smoking or don’t start. Protect your skin

and eyes from the sun with high SPF sunscreen and UV protective glasses.

Maintain a healthy body weight with a balanced diet and regular

exercise. Get up and move every single day. Limit alcohol consumption as

much as possible. Basically all the things that we already know that we

should and shouldn’t be doing. Now we have even more motivation for our

lifestyle changes.

Now back to imaging. I have shared my own story many times now

about how very lucky I am that early detection…. I went for my mammogram

as soon as I got that B.C. Cancer letter reminder. So early detection is

absolutely critical.

What I haven’t talked about was the stress and frustration of

actually trying to get booked for my MRI. It felt like the Hunger

Games . I couldn’t get the surgery until the MRI. I couldn’t get

the MRI. I was going on a wait-list. It was at least a month, and I

might have to go at three o’clock in the morning to Abbotsford, which is

not particularly close to North Vancouver. Until I experienced this

myself, I didn’t understand the difficulty in accessing medical imaging

in B.C., and I didn’t understand the actual stress that it put on a

person’s life.

Now, I heard a story last month on CTV which really resonated with

my own experience. Three months after Kristina Tanner was told she

needed a biopsy to determine if she had breast cancer…. The procedure

finally happened this week. But the wait for the 69-year-old Vancouver

resident, whose mother died of breast cancer three years ago, had been

stressful. “It’s very upsetting because it’s always hanging over you,”

she said. “You can’t help but think: ‘What if it’s spreading as I

speak?’” Those are exactly the thoughts that I had.

Timely imaging services save lives by detecting cancers when

they’re small and allowing less toxic, gentler therapies to be used with

fewer and less severe side effects. In the case of screening

mammography, it leads to a 25 percent reduction in advanced-stage breast

cancers and a 41 percent reduction in mortality. However, here in B.C.,

radiologists like Dr. Yong-Hing and Dr. Gordon are sounding the alarm

about the long wait-lists that we have for hundreds of thousands of

patients who need medical imaging in this province.

In September, the B.C. Radiological Society sent an urgent letter

to the Health Minister. I quote from it. “We fear for the tsunami of

cancer cases, including those initially detected at stage 2 and above,

that may be coming to B.C. because of delayed access to medical

imaging.”

They’re asking to work with the province to address this urgent

issue. Specifically, radiologists are asking for four things. The first

is to deal with the critical shortage of medical imaging technologists.

A health human resources solution must be developed to train, recruit

and retain technologists.

The second is the need for new equipment to keep up with the

demand and a long-term capital plan to invest in innovative

technologies.

The third concerns the delayed access to breast imaging, as

radiologists call for action to reduce wait times for breast biopsies

and supplemental imaging for patients with a high risk.

The fourth is the need for additional funding to cover overhead

costs for community imaging clinics, some of which are at risk of

closing and reducing services due to costs, which could all lead to

further delays and longer medical imaging wait times.

H. Sandhu: I would like to thank the member for West Vancouver–Capilano for

sharing her thoughts.

Our government deeply cares about well-supported public health

care. Our government’s values and stands on health care are the reason

I’m standing here today.

My own family lost a loved one in 2010 due to the lack of

life-saving treatment. Our tough journey started in 2005 and ’06. It

took more than two to three years for my first husband to finally get

access to diagnostic tests and treatment. By then, it was too

late.

[10:40 a.m.]

We didn’t have a cancer centre in Prince George at the time. The

closest cancer centre — and from Terrace, too — was Vancouver, costing

us thousands of dollars for each medical trip we had to make. I then

continuously saw too many people having to go through the same

challenges when I was working in health care. Therefore, I can empathize

with the patients and families who have to go through similar

challenges.

Our government has been constantly investing in health care to

fill previous gaps and to strengthen the system. In May 2020, our

government made a surgical renewal commitment to catch up on the

surgeries that were postponed due to COVID-19 and significantly

increased the number of surgeries performed above pre-pandemic levels.

Government committed an initial $250 million to achieve this goal. In

Budget 2021, our government committed $495 million over three years to

support surgical and diagnostic strategies, and in Budget 2022, our

government committed to a further $300 million over three years to

address wait-lists for surgeries and scans.

On May 10, the Canadian Institute for Health Information released

a report for surgery, diagnostic imaging and other procedures during the

first 18 months of the COVID-19 pandemic. This report shows that B.C.

was one of the top-ranking provinces in performing surgeries and

delivering MRIs and CT scans, and all this happened despite us having to

deal with the pandemic and other crises.

For cancer surgeries, B.C.’s performance improved compared to 2020

and was mid-range when compared to other provinces. In radiation

therapy, B.C.’s performance saw 88 percent of patients start their

treatment within the first-four-week target. For MRI, wait times went

from fifth in the country in 2018 to second in 2021. For CT, wait times

went from sixth in the country in 2018 to third in 2021.

Benefits of these investments are being seen in my own

constituency of Vernon-Monashee at Vernon Jubilee Hospital since we got

the new MRI. From 2020 to 2021, 7,700 exams were performed — an average

of 720 exams per month. Local patients now only wait for a few days, and

a few weeks in some cases, depending on the surgery and their diagnosis,

rather than months, which was the waiting period in 2019. Patients are

appreciative that they no longer have to travel to Kelowna or other

jurisdictions, and now we don’t have to send the entire patient transfer

team along with the nurse to Kelowna.

Steve from Vernon and his family shared his story with me. Steve

was diagnosed with colon cancer a few months ago. For Steve, it took

nine days from the time of his diagnosis to surgery, and he received

exceptional care.

There is no doubt that the pandemic affected the health care

system, which interrupted services, and we face challenges. Therefore,

we continue to invest heavily in the health care system. These

investments are vital. Our government is committed to invest more and

recently announced B.C.’s health human resources strategy to address

these challenges so everyone can get the timely access to the care they

need and our health care workers can feel supported, because they have

been working too hard, for too long during this pandemic and opioid

crisis.

We are also creating more training seats to meet professional

needs, whether it’s in the nursing field or other health care

professions, and we are looking ahead. This is taking proactive action

so nobody falls behind and everybody gets the care they need and

deserve.

K. Kirkpatrick: Thank you so much to the member opposite, who I know, with her

experience in health care, certainly understands the issues and

challenges that are happening.

As someone who has benefited from medical imaging services, I

can’t stress enough the importance of listening to these serious

concerns raised by B.C.’s Radiological Society. These issues that they

identify have led to significant backlogs and pushed over-burdened

medical professionals out of the field, and this has further exacerbated

the delay. As radiologists have pointed out recently: “Delays in medical

imaging cause delays in diagnoses, specialist referrals, surgeries,

medical treatments, cancer care and more.”

[10:45 a.m.]

So it’s essential that the province collaborates with these

professionals to develop specific solutions to address the issues, as

such a dire situation is absolutely heart-wrenching and

unacceptable.

Now, bear in mind that the letter from radiologists came only one

week after 200 specialist doctors called attention to the crisis in

specialty care, just in this past September. It’s estimated that one

million patients are waiting to see a specialist in British Columbia. In

these doctors’ words: “Our entire health care system is crumbling. Not

enough is being done to improve specialist patient outcomes or shorten

overcrowded wait-lists. If we do not work together to find solutions,

specialty care in this province is going to erode even

further.”

In B.C., just 20 percent of cancer patients are able to see an

oncologist for the first consult within the recommended two weeks,

compared to 75 percent in Ontario. Some people wait for months. Now,

B.C. does not make publicly available these data, which are shared with

BCRS by people working in the system.

Our health care professionals desperately want to provide care to

patients, but they’re exhausted and demoralized in every part of B.C.’s

health care system. As doctors and specialists are burdened with

overhead and operating costs, B.C. needs an action plan, through genuine

consultation, to relieve the pressure on health care workers. Doctors

are asking to increase doctor training spaces, reduce barriers for

internationally trained physicians and encourage more team

collaboration.

I’d like to end by saying thank you to the radiologists that

helped me, the B.C. Cancer clinic on the North Shore, where someone was

able to recognize an unusual and hard to find image, North Shore Imaging

as well as the radiologists at Lions Gate Hospital who figured out what

the heck it was.

I apologize. I’m going to have to say this before I end. You can

never trick a radiologist, because they can always see right through

you.

INVESTING IN HEALTH SERVICES

A. Singh: Very good, my friend. That was apt.

Mr. Speaker, when one thinks of Canada and British Columbia, one

of the first things of pride that comes to mind is our health care

system. No doubt there are stressors on the system that lead to tragic

situations. We can always improve, in any situation, and we’ll always

strive to do so. Our government has done so for the last few

years.

My friend spoke very eloquently about the investments we’ve made

in medical imaging and the steps that we’ve taken over the last few

years. No doubt, with the dual epidemics, over the last few years, there

has been immense stress put on this system and the people that work

within that system. But it’s still a system that we should have pride

in, that we should work, all of us, together to make better.

Many here, and my friend spoke of this, have had firsthand

experience with the health care system in their greatest time of stress

— some friends across the hall, the Premier, myself included. A cancer

diagnosis is a frightening thing, as are many other diagnoses. Like many

British Columbians, you want the care to start immediately, as did I —

that day, that hour, no delay. For me, as for many others, it didn’t.

There was a wait to get the full diagnosis and another wait for the

treatments.

That wait creates anxiety, understandably. It’s an anxious

situation to be in, and that anxiety is greatly heightened. I chose to

trust that I would be taken care of in this system. I chose to trust the

oncologist. That trust was justified, as I stand here, post treatment

from stage 3 colorectal cancer, feeling pretty good.

My experience — and it might not be yours — has been quite

phenomenal in this health care system. Everybody deserves that care and

compassion that they need at the time that they need. I got

that.

We all recognize that the system has been stressed. When we speak

about stressors…. They don’t just come from the dual epidemics, from

COVID and from the opioid epidemic, but they come from a systemic

underfunding of the health care system and an undervaluing of the people

who work within that system.

Our government is as committed to health care as it ever was. It’s

part of our DNA, essentially. That’s why we have been investing in

health care ever since 2017. My friend eloquently spoke about that.

Improving care for people in British Columbia is central to the choice

that we make as a government.

That’s why earlier this month one of the many things that we did

is…. We launched a health human resources strategy to optimize the

health system, expand training and further improve recruitment and

retention. As our Minister of Health said, we’re taking the next step in

increasing access to public health care for people in British

Columbia.

[10:50 a.m.]

Since 2017, we’ve taken significant actions to improve and

increase access to health services, from performing a record number of

surgeries to increasing our workforce by over 20 percent and adding more

health-related education seats to post-secondary

institutions.

We have made important progress. We know that people are facing

real challenges right now, and there is much more work to do. This

strategy will guide our next steps in building a strong, resilient

public health care system for now and for the future. This strategy will

support patients who rely on the public health care system by adding

more doctors, nurses and health sciences professionals by adding more

new education and training seats.

The strategy essentially focuses on four key areas: retaining,

fostering healthy, safe and inspired workplaces; redesigning the system,

balancing workloads and staffing levels to optimize quality of care by

optimizing scope of practice; recruiting, attracting and onboarding

workers by reducing barriers for international health care workers — we

did that earlier this year with the internationally trained nurses —

strengthening employer-supported training models, enhancing learning

programs to support staff.

This is a multi-year strategy with several actions already having

started. Immediately, we started to act, including adding 40 new

undergraduate medical education seats and up to 88 new residency seats

at UBC. These will be phased in throughout the province, beginning in

Beginning October 14, actually beginning this last weekend,

pharmacists have been given the power to adapt and renew prescriptions

for a wider range of drugs and conditions. These changes will, for

example, help patients dealing with mental health and substance use

disorders, and they’ll help those patients who don’t have a regular

primary care prescriber to access the medications they need.

The Ministry of Health is also working with the College of

Pharmacists of B.C. on regulations that will enable pharmacists to

further prescribe for minor ailments and contraception by spring of

2023, a few months away.

New regulations will enable paramedics and first responders to

provide a broader range of services to better care for their patients

during emergencies. Many more actions will be announced in the coming

weeks and months, with additional steps in the following

years.

Health and human resources has been a key priority for this

government. This is where we hear the most about extreme stress. This

strategy and the actions set out within it will build on this

foundation.

Since 2017, we have committed more than a billion dollars to

support health care workers and increase access to health services for

British Columbia. We’ve added 602 new nursing seats and 322 additional

allied health–related seats to the public post-secondary institutions.

We’re providing bursaries for existing health care workers, streamlining

the process for internationally educated nurses to enter the British

Columbia health system.

We’ve welcomed more than 38,000 new workers to the provincial

health system during the past five years. I’m going to repeat that

number: 38,000 new health care workers to the provincial health system.

In addition, 250 net new paramedic positions throughout B.C. have been

added.

Interjection.

A. Singh: Numbers don’t lie. Facts and numbers don’t lie, my

friend.

In addition, 250 new net paramedic positions throughout B.C. have

been added, many located in rural remote and First Nation communities,

where they are needed.

We also offered — a few weeks ago announced — an investment of

$118 million in stabilization for funding for family doctors with the

Doctors of B.C. There’s also work being done to expand the number of

people who will be entering and graduating from UBC’s school of

medicine, in addition to work being done to open a second medical school

in Surrey with Simon Fraser University.

You know, I could go on and on about all of the investments in

health care that we’ve done, but I’m going to give my friends a little

time to answer. Then I’ll come back with an answer to that.

T. Wat: With one million British Columbians on a wait list to see a

specialist doctor; the country’s longest clinical wait times here in

B.C.; one in five British Columbians without a family doctor; closed

emergency rooms; unavailable ambulances; a tsunami of cancer, according

to B.C. radiologists, due to the time it takes to get imaging; and so

many other countless failures in our health services, they are letting

people down.

[10:55 a.m.]

Investing in our health care is not just a necessity, but an

obvious step that we should see more from our government. More

importantly, I think, we have seen that throwing money at a problem

doesn’t always fix the issue. It’s about good, effective government that

takes bold action in a timely manner to address the people’s

needs.

We saw this with the failed urgent primary care centres, UPCCs,

which have been unable to address the primary care crisis in our

province, where instead we have investments that are not giving

taxpayers the benefits that were promised to them.

Deputy Speaker: Excuse me, Member. Sorry.

Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Mr. Speaker, we urge you to repeat the advice you’ve given to

members on both sides of the House this morning about what is

constituted within the definition of private members’

time.

Deputy Speaker: I don’t believe that’s a point of order, and the Speaker is quite

capable of doing his job. Thank you, Member.

Please proceed, Member.

T. Wat: I respect the sentiment brought forward by my neighbour in

Richmond, the member for Richmond-Queensborough. However, I think he and

I know very well that people in Richmond and everywhere else in the

province need more than just words and promises. They expect action and

results. The members opposite who, like me….

Deputy Speaker: Member, I would encourage you to also look at Standing Order 25A.

It’s pretty clear that we don’t target other members for opposition,

suggesting they failed, suggesting anything about them. The minister

just made that point. I chose not to pursue it, understanding that you

would understand your job. So please do your job in a way that follows

the rules of this House.

T. Wat: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your advice. I will do so

accordingly.

We just hear many promises and announcements. British Colombians

have heard from this government, and I just want to

emphasize….

Deputy Speaker: Member, this is not partisan time. I’ve warned you once, and then

you chose to ignore my advice and continue down what is a partisan

track, not effectively pursuing the rules of 25A in this House, the

standing orders. If the member is going to continue on a partisan track,

we’ll have to end it here, but I’d prefer to let you continue speaking

if you can focus on following the rules of the House. Thank

you.

T. Wat: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your guidance.

Every single day I hear about how this health care system is

letting my constituency down, and I know that all of us can relate to

that. How much worse does reality have to get?

We need to answer those like William from Richmond, who

says:

“I went to the emergency room at Richmond Hospital a few weeks ago,

and after more than seven hours, we didn’t get the chance to see any

doctor. The nurse told me the doctor was busy, and the entire emergency

department only had one doctor. The nurse also told me that the new

urgent care centre in Richmond closed earlier than their original

proposed closing hour because they are short of doctors. We were there

at 8 p.m. and stayed till almost 4 a.m. No doctor showed up at

all.”

Or how about Agnes, also from Richmond, who had to wait at a UPCC

for over five hours because her family doctor was too busy to see her

immediately.

The reality is that these situations are far, far worse for many

British Columbians that are waiting for treatment, diagnosis and help

with even more serious and dangerous situations. Instead of a light at

the end of the tunnel, they witness a system that continues to

worsen.

When the emergency health care services are unable to treat an

emergency or an urgent primary care centre is unable to act in urgency,

we know we have a health care system that needs more than just

investing. It needs a plan and bold action and not the delays,

announcements and blaming that we have seen recently.

Our doctors, nurses and all those that put so much work into

keeping British Columbians healthy need more support from this

government. Those who rely on this system are counting on promises being

kept.

[11:00 a.m.]

A. Singh: I spoke earlier about stressors. They don’t come just from the two

epidemics that we’re in right now. They come from a systemic

underfunding of the health care system and an undervaluing of the people

who work in that system. This is in direct answer to my friend’s

contentions on the other side.

For a long time, many cuts were made to the system.

J. Sturdy: That’s a lie.

A. Singh: That’s not a lie. Many customers in the system….

Deputy Speaker: Member for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, please withdraw. I ask you

to withdraw immediately.

J. Sturdy: I withdraw that comment.

Deputy Speaker: That’s unparliamentary language that’s not to be used in this

House.

Please proceed, member for Richmond-Queensborough.

A. Singh: We see the result of that undervaluing even today, even after

we’ve spent the last five years….

Interjections.

A. Singh: It’s not partisan. I’m explaining why the system is stressed. It’s

stressed because you underfunded it for 16 long years.

Interjections.

Deputy Speaker: Order. Order, Members. Order.

[The Deputy Speaker rose.]

Deputy Speaker: Members will come to order.

Member for West Vancouver–Capilano…. West Vancouver–Sea to

Sky.

I apologize to the good member for Capilano.

If you can’t hold your tongue, then I would ask you to leave the

chamber. It’s your choice.

[The Deputy Speaker resumed his seat.]

Deputy Speaker: Proceed, member for Richmond-Queensborough.

A. Singh: So some facts. In 2009, the then Minister of Health forced health

authorities…

Interjection.

A. Singh: You wanted facts. You wanted facts. And you called me a

liar.

Interjection.

Deputy Speaker: Members. Members.

A. Singh: …to absorb $360 million in funding cuts. That’s not a

lie.

Interjection.

Deputy Speaker: Member for Richmond-Queensborough.

Interjection.

[The Deputy Speaker rose.]

Deputy Speaker: Members.

Member, please.

Members, we are not going to continue this conversation. It seems

like either side right now is unable to take a deep breath and find a

way to follow the rules of Standing Order 25A. I’d ask the members to

please review it.

We’ll try again next week when you come back. Hopefully, you’ll

have learned the rules by then, Members. Thank you.

[The Deputy Speaker resumed his seat.]

Deputy Speaker: We’re going to proceed to the next order of the day.

Hon. K. Chen: I ask the House to consider proceeding with Motion 20,

standing in the name of the member for Surrey South.

Deputy Speaker: Members, unanimous consent of the House is required to proceed to

Motion 20 without disturbing the priorities of the motions preceding it

on the order paper.

Leave granted.

Private Members’ Motions

MOTION 20 — COMMUNITY SAFETY

AND ROLE OF JUSTICE

SYSTEM

E. Sturko: I move the motion:

[Be it resolved that this House support safe communities for British

Columbians by ending the current catch-and-release justice

system.]

Across our province, people are being violently attacked, having

their businesses looted and their property damaged by a small but

prolific group of chronic repeat offenders. Some of these offenders are

racking up hundreds of police calls for service and dozens upon dozens

of criminal charges.

[J. Tegart in the chair.]

Many of these recent incidents have been shocking. A security

guard viciously beaten. A woman violently attacked by a stranger in the

lobby of her apartment. A food courier stabbed in the throat by a

stranger as he tried to deliver an order. The list goes on.

What has been most shocking is how quickly these same individuals

are then released into the public, where they continue to put safety at

risk. The situation is even more confounding when one learns that often

the accused person has a significant criminal history, previous criminal

convictions for violent crimes and failure to abide by their release

conditions.

In 2019, the federal government received royal assent on Bill

C-75, legislation introduced with the intent of modernizing Canada’s

justice system. One of the sections of Canada’s Criminal Code amended by

Bill C-75 is with respect to granting bail. It requires that judges use

the least restrictive forms of bail possible unless there is just cause.

Just cause is used to describe the statutory grounds that justify

pretrial detention of an accused. They’re laid out in our Criminal Code

as flight risk, public safety and public confidence in the

administration of justice.

Madam Speaker, you can see that even with Bill C-75, Crown

prosecutors can present evidence in court that articulates the just

cause for remanding dangerous people into custody.

[11:05 a.m.]

Earlier this year exasperated mayors sent a letter addressed to

our former Attorney General pleading for action on the issue of prolific

offenders who are causing chaos and assaulting people in their

communities. Mayors called for more community courts, reassessing of the

B.C. Prosecution Service’s charge assessment guidelines, more resources

for prosecution services and stricter bail conditions.

Even with the knowledge that Bill C-75 had amended considerations

for bail, and even with the knowledge that chronic repeat offenders were

causing significant harm across B.C., the former Attorney General, the

member for Vancouver–Point Grey, failed to act. He saw no fault in the

federal legislation. He didn’t announce a trip to Ottawa. His

replacement, our current Attorney General, balked at the idea that there

was a problem at all. He dismissed concerns over violent attacks,

Perhaps it was their failure to believe mayors, or to believe the

police, or to believe the victims of crime, or even to believe that

there was a problem at all. Maybe that’s why they didn’t implement any

of the mayors’ suggestions. Instead, they commissioned a study. After

months and months, when the results of that study were met with

underwhelming support, they decided to blame the federal

government.

The NDP has now finally acknowledged that there is a problem with

their catch-and-release justice system, and now they’re trying to pin it

all on federal legislation. Our Attorney General, who used to be the

federal MP, celebrated Bill C-75 when he worked in Ottawa, saying: “The

bail reform provisions are exemplary, and requiring that the least

onerous form of bail be imposed is a good thing.”

Now under fire for the disastrous impacts of his government’s

catch-and-release system and C-75, he has changed his tune. To avoid

responsibility, the Attorney General is touting that he voted against

Bill C-75, but there’s much more to the truth. In fact, he voted against

Bill C-75 because he felt it wasn’t lenient enough.

During my time as a police officer, I’ve had to face the victims

of crime and tell them that the one that hurt them — the one that

upended their lives, the one that filled them with fear — was back on

the street. I had to tell business owners — look in their face and tell

them — that the one that looted their store, that robbed them, that

defaced their buildings with graffiti and smashed their windows was back

on the street.

It’s time for this government to face British Columbians and see

the pain that their failed catch-and-release system is causing. British

Columbians are losing faith in their justice system. It’s time to scrap

this government’s catch-and-release policy and immediately direct Crown

prosecutors to seek remand for prolific offenders who continue to pose

risks to public safety.

G. Begg: Thank you to the member for this resolution. Welcome to the

House.

The resolution is: “Be it resolved that this House support safe

communities for British Columbians by ending the current

catch-and-release justice system.” For context, it’s important to

acknowledge that this issue is not confined to British Columbia. It is

widespread in every province.

Just last week our Attorney General and Solicitor General were in

Halifax, along with their counterparts from across the country, to

discuss this very issue. At that meeting, they heard that the issues of

repeat offenders and violent-stranger attacks are a major concern across

Canada — an unintended consequence of Bill C-75, and subsequent Supreme

Court decisions, that has made it extremely difficult to hold violent

offenders in custody while they are awaiting trial.

As important is context in this discussion: in other words, the

origin, here in British Columbia, that got us to where we are today.

What were the factors that led to this urgent situation in our

province?

For decades, under successive Liberal governments, British

Columbians have witnessed the erosion of social services for the most

vulnerable in our communities — the closure of Riverview and the neglect

of our families, friends and neighbours with mental health needs; the

neglect of hard-working and contributing members of society struggling

with addiction; the Indigenous communities and residents in remote

communities with limited access to government and public programs; the

neglect of people simply trying to keep up in areas of housing,

accessible post-secondary education or vocational training. The list

goes on.

[11:10 a.m.]

The net result of decades of Liberal neglect has been an increase

in the criminalization of the mentally ill, the addicted and those who

did not benefit from the Liberals’ rewarding of the most wealthy and

privileged in our province. The vicious cycle that is corroding the

fabric of our society is not the politically motivated and convenient

catch and release; it is the failed neglect-and-forget approach from the

past few decades.

Our government proposes to change that — to address the source of

the concern rather than score cheap political points through a cruel,

shortsighted and cynical critique of our system of justice. This

government is requesting that Ottawa urgently explore options at the

bail stage to better manage repeat violent offenders, while ensuring

that we continue to address the overrepresentation of Indigenous people

and marginalized communities in the criminal justice system. Ministers

Rankin and Farnworth raised this with their federal counterparts, who

acknowledged the seriousness of this issue across the country. We’re

hopeful that we can work together to come to a national

solution.

B.C. will continue to act at the provincial level to strengthen

enforcement and expand mental health and substance abuse treatment to

break the cycle of reoffending. And because of B.C’s advocacy, we’re

hopeful that we’ll see swift federal action to resolve these unintended

consequences at the federal level as well.

These new B.C. Liberals claim to be reuniting or uniting B.C., and

they complain of catch and release. Shame on them. Shame on them for

blaming the hard-working police, prosecutors and other justice system

partners who are trying to dispense fair and proportional justice to

many accused who have fallen through the Liberal holes in our social

safety net. By the time too many of these victims of Liberal neglect get

to the justice system, the system has already failed them. Keeping all

of them imprisoned is contrary to law and not a wise use of taxpayer

funds.

We must invest in addressing the underlying drivers of these

cycles of repeat offending. We are not going to arrest our way out of

this problem. Absolutely, the most violent and hardened criminal

elements should be dealt with swiftly to maintain public safety and

security in our neighbourhoods, but we’re throwing good money at bad by

addressing crime on the back end.

We will address the Liberals’ legacy of neglect and stop trying to

arrest our way out of this. “Catch and release” is simply an election

slogan. It is neither sensible nor a viable solution to the real

problems British Columbia faces. If the Liberals want to unite behind

more than an election slogan, we invite the parties across the aisle to

join us…

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member.

G. Begg: …in laying the foundations for investment in the root drivers of

low-level criminality.

Deputy Speaker: Member, thank you.

I would kindly remind the member that it is inappropriate to use

names in the House. We use titles.

R. Merrifield: Well, I’d like to remind the MLA for Surrey-Guildford that British

Columbians don’t really care about context. They care about today. They

care about what’s not happening today. They care about crime today. They

care about feeling safe today, and they care about what has not been

done over the last six years of this NDP government.

Metropolitan Kelowna’s crime rate in 2021 was the highest in

Canada, according to Stats Canada data, which shows almost double the

rate than in other B.C. metropolitan cities. In December 2021, Kelowna

RCMP identified 15 people who had 1,039 negative contacts with police in

the first 11 months of 2021. That’s about three contacts with police

every two weeks for each of them.

There is an offender in Kelowna who, since 2016, has generated 346

RCMP files and received 29 convictions for property crime and assault

offences. This person has no-go conditions pertaining to 11 businesses

yet is known to be routinely released with conditions and continues to

reoffend.

[11:15 a.m.]

There has also been a 118 percent increase in the time taken by

the B.C. Prosecution Service to review files from the police, then

taking longer to conclude those files, approving charges less often,

with fewer cases going to court and fewer people found

guilty.

I am worried, not just as a member of this House but as a mother

that has to constantly worry about the safety of her children; a mother

who has had hundreds of kids, teens and young adults through my house as

friends of my five kids and as kids of my friends; a mother who has four

high schools, nine elementary schools, five middle schools of children

in my riding alone.

The catch-and-release justice system continues to cause growing

concerns not only in my community but across others in British Columbia.

It must be addressed on a wider scale to keep people safe and ensure

that our cities and towns are places where businesses can thrive and

families can live without fear. Right now that is not the reality for

many in this province.

During the election in 2020, a young man came up to me with his

parents at a meet-and-greet to ask me a question. He was incredibly

polite. He was so well-prepared with this written-out question. He was

12. He asked me what I was going to do for the homeless people. When I

asked him, “Why this question?” he said: “I ride my bike with my family

downtown, and I feel so bad for them on the streets, but I’m also afraid

of them.”

Our kids don’t feel safe. Businesses have staff that don’t feel

safe. Women won’t work downtown anymore. Countless times MLAs have risen

to speak on prolific offenders, often informed by their constituents,

and since then, in every corner of the province, the problem has

worsened.

Our province’s current catch-and-release style is not working, and

it will take every level of government working together to bring about

real change. This is a significant problem, and it’s very clear that

this is not simply a matter of individual failure or responsibility but

of systemic failure. Our system is not built in a way to truly address

situations like these, and we’re seeing the widespread impacts of these

structural issues.

There is so much more to do. With this being such a major problem,

we need more than just promises. We need more than just announcements.

We need results today, and this begins with the government stopping the

catch-and-release justice system that it still continues to stand behind

today. The government should take action and address this

issue.

H. Yao: Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the motion moved by the

MLA for Surrey South. Before I start, I want to take a moment to express

my gratitude to everyone who put their names forward and participated in

the 2022 municipal election. Thank you for your courage to take on the

challenge and your willingness to be vulnerable and transparent in the

hope to serve British Columbia. I also want to congratulate everyone who

has been elected. I look forward to working with you in making British

Columbia a better place for all.

British Columbians deserve to feel safe, and repeat offenders

should be held accountable. Our Attorney General and Minister of Public

Safety were in Halifax last week for federal-provincial-territorial

meetings with Ministers of Justice and Public Safety across the country

on this very issue. One of the major concerns shared was the issue of

repeat offenders and violent-stranger attacks across Canada, an

unintended consequence of federal Bill C-75 and subsequent Supreme Court

decisions that have made it extremely difficult to hold violent

offenders in custody while they are waiting for trial.

B.C. is requesting that Ottawa urgently explore options at the

bail stage to better manage repeat and violent offenders while ensuring

that we continue to address the overrepresentation of Indigenous people

and marginalized communities in the criminal justice system. We need to

work together to come to a national solution.

[11:20 a.m.]

Our provincial government is also committed to continue, at our

provincial level, to strengthen enforcement and expand mental health and

substance abuse treatment to break the cycle of reoffending. That is why

we brought in a 37-year-plus police veteran and an expert in criminology

and public health to give us advice on what we can do, as a province, to

put a stop to these criminal acts.

First, our government is committed to bringing back the cancelled

repeat offender management programs that were initially introduced in a

pilot in 2012. The programs demonstrated that participants reoffend 40

percent less during the first year of the follow-up period when compared

to their criminal behaviour prior to their involvement in the program.

The program also reduced reoffending rates for property crime, violent

offences, drug- and alcohol-related offences. Participants use health

services, housing and other social services more and have fewer negative

conflicts with police and spend less time in custody.

Second, our provincial government also expanded funding for

services for at-risk youth, child protection and family development,

youth mental health and prevention supports, and mental health services

for health authorities. Our provincial government added new

peer-assisted care teams for people in a mental health crisis; new

complex care housing for people who need a higher level of care,

including mental health or substance use challenges.

If you want to be tough on crime, we must also be tough on the

root causes of crime. We are determined to break the cycle of

reoffending to keep people and communities safe.

Third, in 2019, our provincial government created new community

transition teams at five correctional facilities to provide support in

mental health and substance use treatment, connecting with psychiatric,

clinical and specialized support and assistance, finding housing and

more. This team works, and they are filling a critical gap in a

transitional period from prison to community.

Our provincial government is expanding the team to every

provincial correctional facility and expanding the services offered, and

additional team members now includes social workers, nurses, peer

support workers, Indigenous patient navigators. Hiring is already

underway, and a new team will be launched by the end of this

month.

After all, the treatment and support people get in the weeks after

leaving a correction facility are critical to people’s success on

breaking the cycle of reoffending.

Our provincial government also significantly increased resources

for prosecutors by increasing the budget by 30 percent since 2017. For

the victims of this crime, our provincial government also funded 400

victim services across the province to help British

Columbians.

We share British Columbians’ frustration with repeat offenders and

violent stranger attacks. We understand some suggestions for the

Attorney General to direct the B.C. prosecution services to take a

different approach. Although the Attorney General has been examining our

options, provincial direction cannot change or override the Criminal

Code of Canada or a Supreme Court decision. The fundamental challenge

lies within the constraints of the federal laws. B.C. is advocating for

our federal government to address this issue nationally.

I know I’m running out of time, so thank you, hon. Speaker, for

the opportunity to speak.

B. Banman: I today rise not only in support of the motion brought forward by

the member for Surrey South, but also demand an end to the constant

anxiety and fear of being the next victim that is felt by people in our

communities thanks to this government’s appalling catch-and-release

program. It’s not just individuals and communities that are frustrated

with this catch-and-release justice system, but also the very police

forces that we entrust to protect us from these threats to our

neighborhoods.

Abbotsford Police Chief Mike Serr, who leads a fantastic and

efficient police force in my riding of Abbotsford South, said that

despite their ability to catch offenders, his officers are super

frustrated that arresting repeat offenders seems to lead them to simply

being released back into the communities to commit more crimes. He said

that prolific offenders are one of the biggest threats to the city of

Abbotsford, something that the members of this House know applies pretty

much everywhere across B.C.

There seems to be a stark disconnect between the realities on the

ground and the words coming from the members on the opposite side of the

aisle as their new Attorney General, supported by caucus members,

continues to proclaim ridiculously that their so-called solutions are

working.

[11:25 a.m.]

I, like most British Columbians, question what exactly is working

when you cannot go a day without hearing about another random attack, a

violent attack, committed by someone who has already had interactions

with the police, while the Attorney General talks about how arrests are

futile — futile — to curb crime. No different from the lack of action by

the former Attorney General of this government as well.

Thirteen urban mayors desperately asked the provincial government

to impose stricter control for repeat offenders while focusing on

regaining public confidence in the government’s ability to administer

justice. As a former mayor, I sympathize with these new and returning

mayors and councillors who will continue to try to contend with the

phone calls and this issue. However, under this lax attitude shown by

this government, their job is only going to be made that much more

difficult. Maybe it’s time for this government to stop pretending like

they cannot take action and listen to their own experts.

The LePard-Butler report, which was commissioned by the former

Attorney General and then quietly released on a Saturday morning when

nobody was really paying attention, clearly points out how the

government can take action today — actions that do not violate the

independence of our judicial system. The report points out the

importance of listening to the informed and experienced-based issues and

solutions brought forward by police, municipal and other community-based

organization personnel.

Why is this government not listening? Why are they not following

the advice of that panel that they requested? British Columbians deserve

better. Commissioning the report was the former Attorney General’s long,

long overdue response to the 13 urban mayors’ letter to government. Now,

with the report finally being released, this government adds more salt

to the wound by picking and choosing what it likes to talk about and

hear from the LePard-Butler report.

In late September, the Abbotsford police swiftly arrested another

prolific repeat violent offender that robbed a gas station with a sword.

With a sword, Madam Speaker. You heard it right. And Sgt. Paul Walker of

the Abbotsford police department reiterated that many of these incidents

are “repeat offenders being continuously released back into our

community.”

The current system is not working, and it’s about time we changed

our approach. When the same 12 people in Nanaimo have 1,300 interactions

with police in one year alone — according to the letter from the Mayors

Caucus — you know that this is not an isolated issue but rather a

provincewide crisis. The importance of addressing measures that impact

crime levels in the long term cannot be overstated.

What people need to see is the results on the streets now. The

people of Vancouver spoke loudly last night. They cannot wait for this

government to do something tomorrow when they feel unsafe and vulnerable

and scared today.

Much more needs to be done. So how about we start with ending this

government’s catch-and-release criminal program and implementing the

ideas in the in the LePard-Butler report?

B. D’Eith: Unlike the opposition, our government takes violent attacks and

repeat offending very, very seriously. People have every right to feel

safe in their communities. We’re strengthening enforcement, and, unlike

the former government, we’re tackling the root causes of criminal

activity.

The opposition says we’re not tough on crime, but that’s simply

not true. Just like we tackled money laundering, something the other

side wilfully ignored, we’re tackling other criminal activities. We have

significantly increased resources to prosecutors. We’ve increased their

budget by 30 percent since 2017. The old government increased it by less

than 1 percent. We’ve opened new courthouses. We’ve increased provincial

police officers.

But we acknowledge that there are issues with the bail system in

regards to repeat offenders. The opposition knows that Crown prosecutors

and justices in B.C. rely on federal laws, regulations and guidelines in

regards to bail and sentencing. The province can’t change or override

the Criminal Code of Canada or the Supreme Court of Canada

decisions.

[11:30 a.m.]

Our Attorney General and Solicitor General can and are working

hard to get their federal counterparts to do the right thing, revise

bail provisions and protect the public from repeat and violent

offenders. The opposition understands these jurisdictional issues, but

they’re choosing to mislead the public in regards to this

matter.

In fact, the Attorney General and the Solicitor General were in

Halifax last week with their federal counterparts to discuss this very

issue. They spoke of the unintended consequence of the federal Bill C-75

and the subsequent Supreme Court decisions that have made it extremely

difficult to hold violent offenders in custody while they’re awaiting

trial. They asked Ottawa to urgently explore options at the bail stage

to better manage repeat offenders while ensuring that we continue to

address the overrepresentation of Indigenous people and marginalized

communities in the criminal justice system. We’re hopeful that Ottawa

will actually do the right thing here.

Our government also, as was pointed out, commissioned the

LePard-Butler report on repeat offenders that was released in September.

This report had some very important findings and recommendations. In

particular, it recommended there both be increased enforcement and get

to the root of the crime. Let me quote. “The provincial government must

invest significantly in addressing the systems-level issues that

contribute to offending, including systemic racism, poverty, inadequate

health services, food insecurity and housing

unaffordability.”

Well, in fact, we are spending billions of dollars on affordable

housing, half a billion dollars in the budget for mental health and

addictions, developing an anti-racism policy, increasing the number of

health care and mental health professionals and instituting complex care

in communities. We’ve increased disability rates. We’ve increased the

minimum wage. We’ve eliminated MSP premiums to help fight poverty. These

are all getting to the root causes of the crime. There are also

recommendations for action.

There are three that we’re acting on immediately: bringing back

the repeat offenders management program that the old government cut in

2012 — this program was proven to cut repeat offenses by 40 percent —

increase offender engagement with housing, health and addiction

services; and reduce the number of times they have encounters with the

police.

We’re also creating a provincial committee to coordinate service

planning for people with complex health needs that come into contact

with the law and creating a First Nations Justice Council pilot project

in the Prince George Indigenous justice centre.

Now, another root cause, of course, is mental health and

addictions. When the Leader of the Opposition was in cabinet, they made

significant cuts to mental health supports, including deep cuts to

at-risk youth, cutting child protection and family development by $185

million and $35 million for youth mental health and prevention services.

And $360 million was cut to health authorities in 2009, resulting in

reducing and eliminating of mental health services at a scale called

“staggering” and “incomprehensible” by the executive director of Coast

Mental Health in Vancouver. Our government is expanding funding for

these services.

Unlike the hyperbole and hysteria of the other side, we’re taking

a measured approach to continue to act at a provincial level to

strengthen enforcement and to deal with the root causes of these

offences. We’re confident that the work of our Attorney General and

Solicitor General will result in the federal government doing the right

thing.

M. Lee: This morning, of course, we’re asking this government to do the

right thing. This is why the member for Surrey South has moved this

motion today. I rise to support that motion.

It seems like every day, there’s another story in the news about

repeat offenders who commit serious crimes yet are consistently released

back out onto the streets where they’re at a high risk to reoffend. This

trend is making people feel scared, vulnerable and anxious about making

it home safely.

This isn’t just happening in Vancouver and the Lower Mainland.

We’re seeing statistics from so many other cities across our province,

where the same group of offenders continues to have repeated

interactions with police in numbers that just don’t make any

sense.

We know that with this government’s catch-and-release system, this

trend is only going to continue, as a lack of enforcement of bail

conditions, no-charge assessments and a lack of clear policy directives

from this government to keep repeat offenders off the streets put people

at risk.

[11:35 a.m.]

Just a couple of weeks ago in Vancouver’s Yaletown, a woman was

followed into her apartment and violently assaulted by a stranger. The

offender was caught by bystanders, charged with assault and uttering

threats and released soon after from custody. This man was subsequently

charged with two sexual assaults, committed months before this

incident.

This is one of the many examples of how repeat offenders known to

police are continually slipping through the catch-and-release system and

putting innocent, law-abiding British Columbians at risk. This is just

one example of how repeat offenders are being released almost

immediately after they are caught committing offenses.

Clearly, no matter how many examples we can show this government,

they need more. How else do you explain to the young woman who was

struck with a pole while walking down the street in downtown Vancouver

by a man who was shouting racial slurs that this man was the same person

arrested about a year ago after stalking another woman in Vancouver’s

Chinatown? How do you explain to this woman who is a person of Asian

descent, living in the North American city with the highest levels of

reported anti-Asian hate, that this same man was caught and released

last year and is now, once again, released on bail?

This person, who violated his probation several times, has over 30

convictions, and now, two very public and violent incidents later, has

been granted bail. Barely two weeks, and this man walks the same streets

that he did leading up to these violent and unprovoked

attacks.

As with this case, we must remember some of the most vulnerable

groups who are impacted by this government’s catch-and-release system,

putting repeat offenders back on the streets. We know that repeat

offenders are more likely to target Indigenous people, those who are

facing poverty or mental health issues or those who are racialized. This

needs to end.

British Columbians deserve to feel safe in their neighborhoods, in

their homes and on the streets. Instead, they feel anxiety, fear and

worry. The first step that this government needs to take is to

acknowledge that this soft-on-crime approach is not working. I must say,

Madam Speaker, hearing the members on the opposite side talk about it

this morning, they’ve got their heads buried in the sand. It’s all talk.

We need for this government to take action, not blame others. We need

this government to take responsibility, not give empty words.

This government must look at the LePard-Butler prolific offender

report, which the former Attorney General commissioned in this matter.

That report recognizes “the great distress that exists in many

communities in B.C. caused by those who offend repeatedly, the impact on

confidence in the administration of justice and the emboldening effect

that appears to have been created among many individuals who offend

repeatedly.”

When you have 40 repeat offenders being responsible for 6,385

negative police contacts in Vancouver, and with four people a day in

Vancouver being subject to violent random attacks, the public certainly

loses confidence in our justice system. This report makes it clear: “The

B.C. Prosecution Service does, when demonstrably justified, create

policy to provide guidance to assist its prosecutors with

decision-making.”

We need to have an end to this government’s catch-and-release

system, with greater enforcement of bail conditions and clear policy

directives from this government to keep repeat offenders off the

streets.

I call on this government to support this motion and bring an end

to the catch-and-release system. It’s hurting people, instilling fear in

our communities and undermining public confidence in our justice

system.

J. Brar: I’m pleased to speak to the motion before this House today. We

believe that people deserve to feel safe in their communities and that

repeat offenders should be held accountable. We share people’s concern

and frustration with repeat offending and violent stranger

attacks.

This is a major concern across Canada that requires actions at the

provincial level, as well as at the national level. That’s why we are

taking actions at the local level and working with the federal and

provincial counterparts to find a national solution to this national

problem.

The opposition, on the other hand, talks a lot about this issue

now, when they’re sitting on the opposition benches. But their record

while they were in government for 16 years tells a completely different

story.

[11:40 a.m.]

There was a pilot program in place to prevent repeat offending

that had promising results, a 40 percent reduction in repeat offending.

Instead of making that program permanent in 2012, the previous

administration cut funding for that program, known as the repeat

offender management program. That is their record.

Our government, on the other hand, reached out to police and

experts to give us advice on what we can do as a province to put a stop

to these criminal acts. We are taking action on the recommendations made

by the police and experts to make a difference on the ground. We are

strengthening enforcement.

Listening to police chiefs, we are bringing back the repeat

offender management program, which the old government cut. In this

program, a multi-agency team did individualized monitoring and

enforcement to prevent people from reoffending. It reduced reoffending

by 40 percent in the first year. We also significantly increased

resources for prosecutors and have increased their budget by 30 percent

since 2017.

Unlike the old government, the real old government, we are

addressing the root causes of crime. That includes new peer-assisted

care teams for people in a mental health crisis, new services to support

people coming out of correctional facilities, new complex care housing

for people who need a higher level of care, including mental health and

substance use challenges.

We are also advocating to find a national solution for this

national problem. Our Attorney General and Minister of Public Safety

were in Halifax last week for federal-provincial-territorial meetings

with the ministers of justice and public safety from across the country.

They heard that the issue of repeat offenders and violent stranger

attacks is a major issue across Canada. It’s not only in B.C. but across

Canada, an unintended consequence of the federal Bill C-75 and a

subsequent Supreme Court decision that has made it extremely difficult

to hold violent offenders in custody while they are awaiting

trial.

B.C. is requesting that Ottawa urgently explore options at the

bail stage to better manage repeat violent offenders. The B.C. Attorney

General and the Minister of Public Safety raised this with their federal

counterpart, who acknowledged the seriousness of this issue across the

country. We are hopeful that we can work together to come to a national

solution.

We will continue to act at the provincial level to strengthen

enforcement and expand mental health and substance abuse treatment to

break the cycle of reoffending. Because of B.C.’s advocacy, we are

hopeful we will see swift federal action to resolve these unintended

consequences at the federal level as well.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity for me to speak to

this motion.

M. Bernier: Look, people in British Columbia don’t feel safe, plain and

simple. And why don’t they feel safe? Any time you turn on any news

outlet, any station, any TV news right now, what you hear is about all

the violent attacks. The top stories all the time are how people are

being victimized on the streets. They’re being harassed, and they’re

being targeted, even in their own homes.

What’s frustrating is…. We’ve heard nothing from this government,

really, that seems to be acknowledging the issues and the challenges

that are being faced by people in British Columbia right now. In fact,

when you listen to their commentary, you would swear that the NDP was

just elected a week ago, because all they talk about is what’s happened

before their time.

I remind them that they’ve actually been in government for over

half a decade. Obviously, they don’t want…. I mean, I feel bad

acknowledging they’ve been in government for half a decade, but I think

it’s important to acknowledge that they’ve done nothing. Maybe that’s

why they sit in this House and try to pretend that nothing’s happened

over the last years, because absolutely nothing has happened over the

last half a decade to help people.

[11:45 a.m.]

In fact, when I listened to the member before me from Maple

Ridge–Mission talking about hysteria from this side of the House…. I

want to remind that member that the hysteria is not from this side of

the House. That hysteria is from individuals, from families, from people

in British Columbia who are frustrated with the lack of actions in

dealing with public safety from this government.

We need to hear those stories, and we need to share those stories.

This government needs to acknowledge the problems that they have created

and that they’re not doing anything about.

Let me explain, obviously, and put it into context. Crime and

disorder in our communities have gotten worse under this

catch-and-release program of this government. In fact, violent crimes

have increased 30 percent under the NDP.

Last year alone we had 11,000 major crime incidents in British

Columbia. Major attacks, people being victimized — 11,000. In fact,

while we’re sitting in this House today debating it, there are another

four or five people who are being attacked in the province of British

Columbia, while the NDP want to pretend that nothing’s going on in the

province. Here in Victoria alone…. Last year there was almost a 50

percent increase in sexual assault and violence on women.

This government wants to pretend nothing’s happening. They want to

deflect and try to blame everybody else for their half a decade of

inaction on this file.

One of the increases we’ve seen, also, is a 75 percent increase in

the rate of no charge assessments. Catch and release. People aren’t even

being charged half the time. And guess what. I will say there’s one

decrease that this government can take credit for, and that’s a 26

percent decrease in the number of accused being approved to go to

court.

We’re trying to stand up not only for the people in the province

who are being victimized but for the RCMP who are getting frustrated,

trying to do their job and not getting the support from this government.

I mean, it’s no surprise, when the former Attorney General wrote a book

about how to sue the RCMP. That, in itself, should show the lack of

support that this NDP government has for not only the RCMP but for

dealing with crime and the issues we have in the province of British

Columbia.

Look, this has to be dealt with. I know that the NDP members are

probably a little sore right now. When you looked across the province

this weekend, after the last municipal election results, where almost

every NDP slate that was endorsed or supported by the NDP members went

down to defeat and were not re-elected…. I think that’s because…. We’ve

heard from the people in the province of British Columbia that they are

absolutely sick and tired of blaming. They’re sick and tired of excuses.

What they want from this government, finally, is some action.

People deserve better.

Interjection.

M. Bernier: Maybe I’ll remind that member. If he goes back to his office, I

hope there’s a mirror in there, and he can finally look in it. He’s

obviously not acknowledging it.

People deserve better. People deserve to be safe. People deserve

to enjoy their communities. They deserve a government that’s actually

going to take action so people can feel safe. They haven’t had that to

date. It’s about time this government ends the catch-and-release program

and starts putting the interests of people first.

A. Walker: I agree with the previous speaker that people deserve to feel safe

in their homes — I appreciate the claps already — and to have confidence

in the criminal justice system.

The member for Kelowna-Mission started off with: “People don’t

care about context.” I think the people of this province do care about

context.

There’s a history to this file. In 2004, the B.C. Liberal

government Attorney General launched the street crime working group. It

was a group of 15 criminal justice stakeholders. They spent a year to

put together a report. It had some very clear actionable items, one of

which — I will give full credit to the members of the other side — was

the foundation for the Vancouver downtown community court. That has

shown huge success for members of the Downtown Eastside.

Most of the other elements of that report were left unactioned, to

the point where the Vancouver police department followed up with two

reports of their own, called Lost in Transition and Beyond

Lost in Transition , documenting the need for increased mental

health and social resources to respond to the unmet needs resulting in

significant burdens on police.

[11:50 a.m.]

What did the B.C. Liberals do after receiving this report? Shortly

thereafter they closed Riverview Hospital. They released many of these

patients into community, but they promised that there would be

psychiatric treatment available for these individuals. We now know that

that treatment was dramatically underfunded, and it was under capacity.

Things got worse.

Again, continuing with the context here. In 2013, Darryl Plecas

ran and led a blue ribbon panel of experts, trying to get to the bottom

of how to manage repeat offenders in British Columbia. The

recommendations were fairly far-reaching, one of which was a

recommendation to fund and to continue the repeat offender management

program, which saw a 40 percent reduction in recidivism for those who

were part of this pilot project.

We have a quote here from the member for Abbotsford South who

says: “Why is government not listening? Why are they not taking their

own advice?” Well, when government of the day received this report, they

did not action that. The panel, the pilot project, the repeat offender

management program, was scrapped, even though it showed tremendous

success. But not only that. They cut funding for children protection and

family development by hundreds of millions of dollars. They cut youth

mental health and prevention supports, and most galling — $360 million

dollars in cuts to health authorities, eliminating or reducing mental

health services all across this province.

We can do better, and we are doing better. Since forming

government, we have invested in mental health supports, funding youth

who age out of care, providing housing to people all across the

spectrum, from complex care housing all the way through to market

housing, because we know that investing upstream, with a focus on

improving fundamental social and economic structures, is critical to

improving health and public safety sustainably.

This program and all of our progress has, indeed, seen challenges.

In 2016, government recognized the challenges with the drug toxicity

crisis in our province, leading to significant increases in acquired

brain injuries and, of course, the challenges that that has in our

communities. COVID-19 meant that many who relied on in-person services,

both mental health and addiction treatment services, lost access to

those services.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Of course, the federal law, Bill C-75, introducing the principle

of restraint, significantly altered the way that we handled cases. But

we are committed to working with the federal government. Just recently

the Public Safety and Solicitor General Minister and the Attorney

General have met with their federal counterparts to try to address some

of these unintended consequences. We have invested in peer-assisted care

teams which, on the North Shore, have redirected almost 500 calls away

from police and were able to deal with these challenges in our

community.

In my community, we have a program called Guthrie program, which

is run by the John Howard Society. It is seeing a 40 percent reduction

in recidivism. This is very similar to the community transition teams

that we have rolling out all over this province. We are making

incredible efforts to invest in the mental health of people in our

communities, and it is showing significant results.

I have a quote here from an officer in Oak Bay. He says that the

offenders that are committing crime because they have an addiction

issue, maybe mental health or trauma…. “Property crime is so far

downstream from where the money has to be invested, but we police wear

it when the failures of all upstream systems make it to us. We own the

responsibility for poor interactions with mentally ill persons, but it’s

1,000 problems upstream that weren’t dealt with.” We are listening to

officers. We are acting on our report, and we are working together to

solve these problems.

M. Morris: I find it truly amazing that the Attorney General and the Minister

for Public Safety have to travel all the way across Canada to eastern

Canada and plead with the federal government to change the law so that

the NDP can abandon their catch-and-release program. We don’t need to

change the law, despite Bill C-75. Here’s what the law says today about

judicial interim release. For those who are curious about it, it’s

section 515 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

It says, “the justice shall, unless a plea of guilty by the

accused is accepted, make a release order in respect of that offence,

without conditions,” but it says: “unless the prosecutor, having been

given a reasonable opportunity to do so, shows cause, in respect of that

offence, why the detention of the accused in custody is justified or why

an order under any other provision of this

section should be made.” It’s

clear that prosecutors do have the authority to present to the judge the

information that the judge needs to make a determination to hold that

individual in custody.

[11:55 a.m.]

Why is this happening? Bill C-75 came out in 2019. Do we have

enough prosecutors to deal with the pressures that this has put on our

prosecution services? I don’t think the Attorney has made those

adjustments yet. Overworked Crown counsel, burned-out Crown counsel and

too many first appearances for all these repeat offenders add to the

problem. By the way, there are four occasions, under 515, where it says:

“unless the prosecutor shows cause.” It puts the onus on the prosecutor

to make sure that the judge is seized with that information.

Subsection (5) of 515 states: “Where the prosecutor shows cause

why the detention of the accused in custody is justified, the justice

shall order that the accused be detained in custody.” So the justice has

the authority under the Criminal Code.

Subsection (10) states: “For the purposes of this section, the

detention of an accused in custody is justified only on one or more of

the following grounds: (

a) where the detention is necessary to ensure

his or her attendance in court.” You’ve got to show up in court. If

there’s a track record for that individual not showing up in court

before, this is something that the prosecutor needs to be bringing to

the attention of the judge.

The second one: “(

b) Where the detention is necessary for the

protection or safety of the public, including any victim of or witness

to the offence, or any person under the age of 18 years, having regard

to all the circumstances including any substantial likelihood that the

accused will, if released from custody, commit a criminal offence or

interfere with the administration of justice.”

There we’ve got another condition: “(

c) If the detention is

necessary to maintain confidence in the administration of justice,

having regard to all the circumstances, including (

i) the apparent

strength of the case, (ii) the gravity of the offence, (iii) the

circumstances surrounding the commission of the offence.” Again, the

prosecutor has ample authority under this act to present to the

judge.

Under the heading “Proceedings respecting failure to comply with

release conditions” — that’s a problem right across this province here.

We have seen the administration of justice offences skyrocket right

across the province here.

This

section covers that. “When an accused appears before a

justice in any of the circumstances described in subsection (2),” the

justice has to hear the matter. It’s matters referring to a release. If

an appearance notice has been issued by a police officer for breaching

probation — or an undertaking, whatever the condition is — then he can

appear in court. However, maybe Crown counsel won’t approve that charge,

and that individual won’t have to appear in court after all.

The Crown counsel, though, can lay a charge against an accused for

a contravention referred to in subsection (a), and the prosecutor seeks

a decision under this section. There’s nothing precluding the

prosecution from charging somebody with the administration of justice

offence and having them prosecuted under there. There are powers under

the Criminal Code, as well, for the judge to ensure that he records the

proceedings of the event so that there’s a record of it. If a justice

does release somebody and they recommit a crime again, even though that

justice has been seized with the information, perhaps an appeal should

be in order.

As you can see, the B.C. Prosecution Service has the authority to

show cause to the judge that a prolific offender should be held in

custody. The B.C. Prosecution Service has the authority to prosecute a

prolific offender with the above-noted administration offences, and a

judge has the authority to make an order to hold the prolific offender

in custody. The only thing preventing the B.C. Prosecution Service from

doing so is the Attorney General’s advice.

M. Morris moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. K. Chen moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m.

The House adjourned at 11:59 a.m.

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