Volume 2 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 2nd Session VERBATIM REPORT Monday, March 12, 1973 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number 24

March 12, 1973 The House met at ):00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape no. 557 Pagel - HRW HON. J.C. CROSBIE (Minister of Finance): Hr. Speaker, I ria• on a point of personal privilege, which I want to raise at this time because it is the first opportunity I have had since I saw thia article. This is the "Newfoundland Herald" of March 14, 1973. In the headline, Mr. Speaker, is: "Moores - Crosbie Blowup In Cabinet Over Shaheen Deal." That is another piece of Shaheenery. Mr. Speak.er, ordinarily I would not - I will try to ignore whatever is in the press.

This is so scurrilous, ao scurvy, so lacking in even an iota of journalistic ethica, competence or standards, that I cannot let it pass because unfortunately this weekly has considerable circulation because it has a television guide in it. People buy it for the television guide. While looking at the television guide, they might just glance at the first page and see this blowup • There was a movie called blowup that I once saw and that waa a real interesting bl011up.

Now the story says: "Informed Herald sources indicate that Premier Frank Moores and Finance Minister John Crosbie engaged in heated argument during two cabinet meetings last week." Now, Kr. Speaker, this was published last week. The week before last, I did not attend any cabinet meetings. I was out of the province. It was not with Greg Power. I was out of the province and I missed the cabinet meetings. MR. NEARY: Was the minister in Liechtenstein? MR. CROSBIE: No, but he will be. He is going to check on somebody's bank account there. So, Mr . Speaker, that is incorrect.

I was not at any cabinet mtuatinR•, ona or two or any number that last veek. "lbe disagreement reportedly arose over the deal respecting a second oil refinery, ••• " Now, of course, we do not know who the 1755

March 12, 1973 tape no. 5.57 Page 2 informed Herald sources are because the Herald made it up in the first place. Then I have apparently - we do not know what that mean• but it is very carefully worded, "been highly critical of this, which sources say" (we do not know if these are Herald sources or some other sources)" was primarily engineered by the Premier." Then it goes on: " When the Finance Minister voiced his disagreement with the Premier's policy in cabinet, flareups ensued." Well you might know this is oil and gas because there are a lot of flareups in it. There is not a word of truth in it, Mr. Speaker.

It is a piece of fiction. HR. SPEAKER: Order please! HR. CROSBIE: This is a very serious matter, please, Hr. Speaker. It goes on, Mr. Speaker: "In essence Mr. Crosbie was reportedly told that• (it is all worded in the usual Herald fashion)"if he did not like the deal, he could leave the cabinet." I mean Mr. Crosbie did not need to be told that. I mean he knew that if he did not go along with the deal or any deal, he would have to leave the cabinet. He has been through all that before. The Premier did not need to flare up like that. I mean he new that I had ample precedent to go by.

Then the story ends up: "Earlier specul~tion had it"(now this is a wind­ up. I mean it is just incredible. I do not know any other jurisdiction where they have something like this. This is unique.)" that the Finance Minister was the main threat to Premier Moores' leadership." Now how can Premier Moores' leadership be threatened when he is already the leader and Premier] This is how it ended up.

Now it has no connection with the earlier part of the story but to make the story look better and to have more to it, to have more substance and to be more credible it ends up: Earlier speculation had it that I was the main threat to Premier Moores' leadership. Now I know it is useless to proteRt. I do call upon the "Newfoundland Herald" to retract the story and to publish next week a 1.7SG

March 12, 1973 Tape oo. 557 Page 3 headline: "Newfoundland Herald Admits Story False Io Last Week's Edition - ,\pologizes Humbly." If they do that, I will forgive them. If they do it, I will also be quite surprised. Now to sum it up. I looked up in the dictionary this morning, Hr. Speaker, the news is defined as: "information of a recent event or development, especially aa reported in a newspaper." Well this was not a recent event or development because it did not happen. Fiction is defined as: "prose work and narrative a form, characters and incidents of which are wholly or partly imaginary." That is true.

This is fiction, Mr. Speaker. The characters are true, the Premier and myself but the incidents are wholly imaginary. It goes on to make fiction also defined as, "a deliberate falsehood." Thia is fiction. It is a deliberate falsehood. It is vicious,which means it is characterized by malice and spite. It is acurvy,which means it is meaningly low and contemptible and there are a lot of other things I could say but I will not.

I, therefore, would appreciate the "Newfoundland Herald" publishing a retraction or giving ua more details because both the Premier and I would like to know when this happened and how bad the flareup was and what he said to me and I said to him, all of that kind of thing. We would either like an elaboration of the story or a retraction. HON.C. W. DOODY (Minister of lndustria .l Development): Hr. Speaker, I rise to call the House's attention to the passing of another prominent Newfoundlander. It appears that at least once a week we have this duty to perform. The gentleman to whom I refer is Mr.

Charles Furey who died a few days ago in Harbour Main, a man who was ninety-nine years of age and who had 11erved th@ OJAtrlcl or Harbour MAin And 8Clll hhnd tn the llou11a of A1.1•atubly, under Rc11pon11lble Govtornmont,for ac,m-, time. Hr. Furey with W. J. Browne, another very prominent Progressive Conservative,worked together for Harbour Main District, under the Responsible 1757

March 12, 1973 Tape no. 557 Paga 4 Government days. I would move that thia Houae exprasa it• syapathy to the family on the passing of thia very great Newfoundlander. HON. E. M. ROBERTS (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and I, of course, wish to be associated with the motion moved by the junior member for Harbour Main. With Mr. Furey's passing the ranks are getting very slight indeed. Indeed,from memory, the only two members of the pre-commission House of Assembly left alive that I can recall (there may be others) are: the honourable Mr. Browne and of course the honourable Mr. P.J. Lewis.

Of course, haw could I forget Major P. J. Cashin who is up in his eighties now but is in remarkably good health. He had a birthday last week. He was eighty-three. The gentleman from Ferryland, Major Cashin, is a very long-lived gentleman, politically he had his up's and down's but we wish him many years yet. Mr. Charles Furey, Mr. Speaker, was elected once in Harbour Main, in 1932, together with the honourable Mr. Browne. They served for two years until the House of Assembly voted itself out of existence in February, 1934. My information is that it was his second try at being elected. He ran in 1928.

He stood as the Progressive Conservative candidate in that district and lost the seat. Mr. P. J. Lewis was elected and A. J. Walsh, that is the late Sir Albert Walsh. Mr. Furey was defeated by twelve votes, a very close count. I am surprised that there were not a number of re-counts or judicial petitions. In any event,with his passing, the ranks again are being thinned. It is a sad duty. When one gets to be ninety-nine, I guess the end is near. With his passing we should recall the contribution these men made. They were a different sort of a politician than we are today, a different breed of politicians.

They had different problelll8 but they had the same interests of Newfoundland at heart and they served as they knew best and they did the best they could. So we should remember 17;.; 8

March 12, 1973 'tape no. 557 Page 5 them and honour them. We do second the motion. Sir. HON. H. A. COLLINS (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): Mr. Speaker, u a result of the very excellent agreement which was negotiated by the hon. Premier with Shaheen Natural Resources Incorporated for the construction of the second oil refinery at Come by Chance, which will be the largest refinery in Canada, this government are very cognizant of the demands that this will make-up on all departments, especially the Department of Municipal Affairs.

To assure that the development is to the maximum benefit of the province and to the people who live in that immediate area, I have today appointed Mr. John Alston, Director of Urban and Rural Planning within my department, to study the existing communities in the area, including Clarenville, Sunnyside, Come by Chance 1759

Much 12,1973 Tape No. 558 Arnold's Cove and Southern Harbour. The committee will immediately consult •1th the re~ldents of the region and various ROVernment ~•p•rtm~nl• lnvolv~~- MR SPF.AKER: The honourable Mlntater of Transportation and Communications. NM - 1 HON. T. FARRELL(Min. Transportation & Communications): I rise to ask permission of the House to table the following regulations which have been gazetted by my department during 1972-1973. The Highway Traffic Fees Regulations 1972, February 28, 1972 The Highway Traffic (Snow Clearing) Regulations, 1972 gazetted December 12, 1972.

The Highway Traffic (Snow Clearing, St. John's Area) Regulations, 1972, gazetted December 12, 1972 The Highway Traffic (Snow Clearing, Grand Falls Area) Re:gulations, 1972, gazetted December 12, 1972 The Highway Traffic (Snow Clearing,· St. Anthony Area) Regulations, 1972, ga7.etted December 12, 1972 The Highway Traffic (Bus) Regulations, 1973, gazetted January 9, 1973 The Highway Traffic (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations, 1973, gazetted January 9, 1973 The Highway Traffic (Bus) (Amendment) Re~ulations, 1973, gazetted January 12, 1973 and attached are fifty-two copies of each of the mentioned re~ulations.

IIOt!_:~ A. COLLINS(Min. Municipal Affairs & llonsinp;): Mr. Speaker, I have one other release which I think might he of 1ntcreat to the House, that is that I am happy tod11y to present to the House the pro _1ects which have been approved under the Federal Winter Capital Projects Fund which my collea~ue announced last week in terms of the total amount of money so far agreed upon. 1760

March 12, 1973 Tape No. 558 NM - 2 In total there are twenty-four projects comprised mostly of badly needed water and sewer extensions and municipal buildings. The total cost of these projects is in the excess of $2 million. Under the programme funds are loans to the province by the Department of Regional and Economic Expansion. Labour costs incurred on all projects between January and May are one hundred per cent forgiven and labour costs between June and December are fifty per cent forgiven. All the projects are highly labour intensive. This is the first list, Mr.

Speaker, we expect a further listing within a couple of weeks or three weeks time. It is too much to read. I will table it for honourable members information. These are municipal projects only. AN HON. MEMBRR: Inaudible. MR. COLLINS: I can read then all if honourable members would like. MR. MURPHY: Read them out, let the people know what we are doing. MR.

COLLINS: Preparation for the installation of sewage treatment plant and general improvements at·Torhay complex Municipal building to be constructed in Torbay Completion of municipal recreational center in Southern Harbour Construction of municipal building in Town of St. Lawrence Construction of municipal building in Town of Pauch Cove Construction of municipal building in Town of Old Perlican Construction of municipal building in Town of Norris Arm Construction of municipal building in Town of Maeystown $50,000 50,000 50,000 60,000 40,000 50,000 50,000 80,000 1761

March 12, 1973 Tape No. 558 NM - 3 ~ Construction of municipal buildings in Mount Carmel, Mitchell's Brook and St.

Catherine• Construction of town hall in Town of Goulds Improvements to municipal parka in Town of Gander Construction of a municipal building in District of Conception Bay South Construction of a municipal building in Town of Burin Construction of a municipal building in Town of Burgeo Improvements and extensions to water and sewerage system in Wabana, Bell Island Extensions to sewer system in Town of Upper Island Cove Extension of sewer services in Stephenville Crosaing Construction of alternate water supply system from Huxters Pond including · construction of new dam and installation of extensions to sewer svster in Springdale Construction of water and sewerage system in Port au Port West - Aguathuna - Felix Cove Extension of water and sewer services in Town of Marystown Renovations and additions to water and sewage system in Isle Aux Horts Renovations and additions to sewer system in District of Hawkes Bay 1762 $ 35,000 50,000 60,000 80,000 80,000 50,000 100,000 70,000 130,000 150,000 135,000 300,000 225,000 50,000

March 12, 1973 Tape No. 558 Provision of water and sewer services to the Vinland Elementary School and aeven homea in Englee Upgrading water facilities and major renovations to existing utility in Dark Cove - Middle Brook - NM - 4 $ 75,000 Gambo 80,000 That is just the first installment, Mr. Speaker, we are looking forward to another one next week. NOTICE OF MOTION: MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to move that on tomorrow I will table a bill, "An Act To Amend The Adoption Of Children Act." MR. ROBERTS: Inaudible. MR. MURPHY: Listen to the Leader of the Opposition, he knows it all.

NOTICE OF QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS: MR. MUPRHY: I have some answers to some questions here, Sir, question 6, 8, 16, 78, 108, asked by the honourable member for Bell Island, I would like to table. There are also copies for the press, I would like for the press to get their copies please. That is who want to know, the people. Thank you. DR. ROWE: I rise to table the answers to two questions, question no. 75, question no. 101, asked by the honourable Leader of the Opposition. The answers are tabled for the benefit of the House. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, has Your Honour called petitions yet? MR. SPEAKER: Yes.

MR. NEARY: My colleague here has a petition to be presented. I do not think Your Honour called petitions. MR. SPEAKER: I called petitions. The honourable Minister of Justice, made a statement. Bv leave of the House,if the honourable member present a petition. Does he have leave of the House? HON. MEMBERS: YP.R. MR -_:~E_A_!(F.R: Al(rud . 17(.;~

March 12. 1973 Tape No. 558 RM - 5 HR. THOMS: Hr. Speaker. I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of the reaidentR of Trinity, Honavista Bay. The prayer of the petition ill th11t th• Tmm of Trtnt ty be ervfced with a water and sewer system. I am aure in presenting this petition, I am sure the honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs delights to see such petitions coming forth because they surely give his department really a lot of work to do and make sure they are kept busy in that department. Mr.

Speaker, a few days ago the honourable minister made a statement in which he said that it would take some $700 million to water and sewerize all the incorporated areas in our province and possibly another $700 million to water and sewerize all the unincorporated areas in our province. I believe, Mr. Speaker, if the honourable gentleman were to check back his figures he would find that it is necessary to make a substantial correction, however, so be it! He has made the statemen;now I disagree with him. I think the figure is much lower.

I believe the figure is within the reach of the Province of Newfoundland. ln supporting this petition wholeheartedly, Mr. Speaker, I do believe that the time has come in this day and age that our province should look at all our cot1U11unities very closely and come up with a realistic estimate of what it would cost to water and sewerize all the province's communities, both incorporated areas and the unincorporated areas. Only in doing this can our province brinr, these communities into the 1970's. Hr.

Speaker, I wholeheartedly support this petition and I ask that this petition be placed upon the table of this House and referred to the department to which it relates. ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. NEARY: Would the honourable Premier care to comment on the reported layoffs at the ERCO Phosphorous Plant in Long Harbour? 176-1

March 12, 1973 Tape No. 558 NM - 6 MR. MOORES..:.. No, Mr. Speaker, no, MR., NEARY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, will the honourable Premier be making a statement in the foreseeable future on the production difficulties and the layoffs at Lon~ Harbour? MR. MJORES: If there are any, Mr. Speaker, that the government have been informed of or that we are aware of that is of information to this House, we will gladly make that information available as we receive it and whatever department receives this information will make it available as soon as I know about it. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, a supplementary question, has the government had any communication at all with ERCO about - are they avare of any layoffs at the ERCO Phosphorous Plant? MR. MOORES: No, Mr. Speaker, not officially. It is not a crown corporation and even though we are interested in what is happening there, we know that there have been some layoffs but we have not been advised officially by the company on what the position is. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, would the honourable Premier inform the House if the government is now in a position to make a statement on the downtown development as promised the Concerned Citizens Committee last week MR. MOORES: Not yet, Mr. Speaker. 17C~

~arch 12, 1973 Tape 55q PK - 1 MR. NEARY: I thank the honourable Premier for his answers, Mr. Speaker. Now I would like to direct a question to my friend and sparring partner. the ~inister of Industrial Development,concerning the steel plant,~ould the honourable minister bring us up to date on what is happening to the steel plant at the Octagon? MR. DOODY: It is always a pleasure to answer questions for the honourable member for Bell Island, because he is such a brir,ht and responsible member of the House.

The situation at the Steel Plant now or at the last information I had,which was on Friday, there were between twenty and thirty employees had heen laid off at that time, the others, if the steel that is now in process of being rolled completes its rolling operation, will be laid off this week. In the meantime the security people are being doubled to ensure that there is no damap,e done to the premises in the absence - MR. NF.ARY· MR. DOODY: Inaudihle. No. we are not concerned with Mr. Wilson,as we are with the duplication of what went on at the Dosco premises after the close down over there. MR.

MURPHY: Hear, hear, well saidl MR. DOODY: The situation in there now,as I say, the thing is reaching its close down state. All the employees are beinp, looked after, as you have already been informed. The steps are being taken to ensure that the property 1~ kept in a condition that will be fit for RRl~. MR. NF.AP.Y · A supplementnry question, Mr. Speaker. Could th~ honourahle mini~ter tel 1 us If thPrr. arc any serious offers to purchnse thP steel plant and take it over nnd operate it? MR.. DOODY: --- --- I do not know if we had any serious offers, Mr.

Speaker, we have had some offers and they are in the process of heinp, evaluated , We have also had some offers to huy the plant. to dismantle it and to remove it elsewhere. We will he in a position,! would s11y in a very relatively short period of time,to be able to say whether or not the operation of the 1766

March 12, 1973 Tape 559 PK - 2 plant will be in the puhlic interest more then the dismembering of it and ahippinr, it away. On the surface the offers that we have had to ope~ate the plant do not look like serious offers. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Transportation and Communications. HON. DR. FARRELL· ( 1tNl STER OF TRANSPORTATION AND CO.fMUNICATI0NS): Mr. Speaker and the honourable members of this House, someone just mentioned the weather report.

I am extremely disappointed today that I was not asked a question on the weather conditions around the island hecause I am glad to report they are in excellent condition, Labrador and - AN HON. MEMBER· Jnaucli .ble. --------- MR. FARRF.LT.: I be,:?: your pardon, Sir? AN HON. MF.MBFR: Inaudible. MR. FA~RELL: Prayer as well, Sir, and a number of machines we sent to the Great Northern Peninsula. It is in excellent shape up there. I would like to 1.nfonn - AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR.

FARRF.LL: Well due to the machines we took-over the past year.some of them are in desperate shape, old,an~~ent creeky, horrible condition whatsoever. But anyway, Mr. Speaker, AN HON. MEMBER: J.ike yourself. MR. Y-_APR.f.J'.!'..·. I am a hit creeky, I will admit. I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that this is the first real opportunity I have had to address this honourable J!ouse at any length since I was elected, for the District of Humber East. I had my say on a few occasions and I must say I enjoyed the repartee that we have had.

I was quite serious when I just mentioned that I was deli~hted to inform the House the conditions have improved in all areas of the island. I am sure the members for the particular districts which have been most serious affected are just as delip,hted as I am that they are in such good condition today, this continues. I hope 17C7

"farch 12. 1973 Tape 559 PK - '.l Now as I have said I have not had much !'lay as far as my d111trict is conerned,aR far as the lonP. tPrm planR or P,oals or prioriti~11 T felt I have had for my district. I think most of the honourahle memhers know the reason for this. I have been to say the least somewhat ill. I only made it to the House on two or three occasions last year. As a matter of fact,I was thinkinp. of this very recently.

I was at a reception with a very old friend of mine a year or two ago who was well in his eighties. 1t was at a wedding reception in the f.orner Brook Area, It was a delightful day as it usually is in that area except certain times of the year. He had a little few words to say. I am sure some of my friends across the floor know hJm very well.

When he p;ot up to say a few words he said,"1 nm honoured and happy and deli~hted to he here today." Ile looked around and looked at the beautiful weather and he said,"as a matter of fa.ct I am happy to be anywhere today." I feel rather like that, As well as being happy,! am very proud to be here as well. Before I go any further, Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome one of my colleagues to the House, to see the honourable member for l2hrador South in his seat. I am deli~hted When he was seated last,the road in was a little rough, I must say,on the elections there.

Rut I am sure that the ~ood people of Labrador South will not go · tn want of representation since that honourable member was elected. As a matter of fact,1 would like to take this opportunity of welcomin~ all members to the Pouse,because I was not here last year. Mr. Speaker, I believe I am one of the last or amonp, one of the last members to reply to the Speech from the Throne. I personally felt it was a very p,ood Throne Speech, it holds a number of important hencfitR for just 11.hout every rep,ton of this provincf', inclurl1n~ my own nistrict of Humber Emit. ffr.

Spcakl'r, the Humhf'r rer,ion 1s !'ltr11.tcp:1cnlly locntPcl and n pror.rr,e;sivr nrrn of thiA prov1nc!" wf th an 1ncrrns1np,1y 1mport;mt role a!'I on(' of the v1tn1 nrr:is c,f contrihut1on to thP Newfo11nrllnnc1 l'conomy. I 1rny th" llumb!"r i-cr.ton 11pecifJc11lly,hrc1111AI' J fe<-1 thnt these- tw() 1-768

March 12, H73 Tape 559 PK - 4 siater districts, I will call them,of Humber are intertwined both in their social and economi.c ~rowth. I am very proud of the fact that I ahare representation in this district with my friend and colleague the honourable the Premier. Actually I think we share more than just the representation of these districts. We also share an attitude I think I am sure in a general approach for the greatest economic and social development of Humber F.ast and Humber West and as well. of course. of the entire province.

We realize that these districts have a number of common problems and a number of common objectives which are best tackled from a common viewpoint. Mr. Speaker, the economy of the Humber Districts in recent years has suffered as we all know several temporary setbacks including the brief interruption of or I should say the other than normal operations of the Bowaters Paper Corporation.

I 81!1 now extremely pleased as everybody else is that these minor restraints on our economy which looked so serious at the time were eventually overcome. particularly in the case of Bowaters. there operation is once again in full swing production. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, our government's continued success in nurturinr and developing such resource based industries is of vital i~nortance tn thP future growth and prosperity of both Humber Districts.

I am extremely pleased with our government's innovated and modern approach to the full and most advantageous development of our natural resources throup.hout this province. Newfoundland is exceptionally blessed with a great wealth of natural resource and nowhere is this more evident than in the richly forested District of Humber F.ast. Here the logging industry is one of the more important sources of employment.

With the right approach to this great forest potential,the logging industry can far exceed its prese~t limitations offering even greater employment opportunities to our people in making an even more and greater contribution to our economv. Now,as outlined in the Speech from the Throne,our 1overnment are now waiting the final report and recol!'lllendatione of the joint federal/provincial 1769

March 12. 1973 Tape 559 PK - 5 task force on forestry. The report is scheduled to be submitted - I think sometime before the end of this month, as far as I am informed. Thia to me iR very encourap.ing. T know there are a great many people particularly within my rliatrict,including my11elf,who are anxiously awaitinR the release of this report and recommendations to determine the contribution this study will make to the logging industry. Before any long term approach to the utilization of our forest can develop.we must have an accurate inventory of all our forest resources in thie province.

That is obvious I think to all. Thia inventory is in the process of being prepared at the present time and when it is complete I expect that it will be of an immeasurable value to the logging industry. I am also pleased that our government have adopted a comprehensive reforeRtation programme to the benefit of our industry. This programme is already in progresR in some parts of the province. I am looking forward to the expansion of this programme this year to include the Humber East District. Now, Mr.

Spenker, forest acceRA roads are another vital necessity if we 11re to fu11y 1fovelop the ]or,r.inp, indui,try in Humher En11t. We do need more acceRa roarlR in our district. 1770

March 12, 1973 Tape 560 JH - l Thae road  permit developer  of the logging industry to exploit and harvest extremely rich timber stands in areas that until now were fn~cceasible and indeed were rotting on the ground in many areas. In the Speech from the Throne it was stated that our government apent more than $600,000 laat year for the construction of forest acceaa roads throughout the province. This expenditure, I am told, ia to be aubstantially increased this year, in the coming year,and l certainly will work to see that the people of Humber East derive the fullest benefits from this worthwhile progr11D11De.

Our government's increased involvement in the logging industry has paid off very well. I know that in my own district a number of communities have benefited from this involvement especially the prospering Town of Deer Lake. In general lam very pleased with our new approach to development of this industry. We cannot really talk about the logging industry, Mr. Speaker, in Humber Eaat,without mentioning the great potential of the saw milling industry as well. There baa been considerable progresa in this industry in Humber Eut during the past year and we are expecting even more development in the coming year.

This will be made possible in great part by the deciaion of our government to establish a new department.the Departmant of Rural Development. Although this new department is not yet officially, I believe it has by legislation.that it is now at this time established, It has already been committed to expanding the saw mill industry through provisions of grants and loans under the authority of the Rural Development Board. Thia will undoubtedly create more jobs for the people of my district and these jobs will be in moat cases available near to their own homes.

The new Department of Rural Development is certainly giving added strength to the long neglected growth of our rural communities. Now while on the topic of rural development,! would like to congratulate 17'71

March 12, 1973 Tape 560 JM - 2 my colleague,the hon. Minister of Rural Development,on the completion recently of his very successful tour of the rural regions of this province. The minister should be coumended for his personal involvement and committment in getting out in these rural areas and acquiring a firsthand knowledge of the problems and potential of these co11D11unities and the effect that the rural development programme is having on them. Mr. Speaker, one of the most promising industries in the Humber East District is that of agriculture.

There has been some progress in this area during the past but there remains a great deal of work to be done with respect to this industry before Newfoundland begins to realize its full potential in agriculture,and this is particularly important to me. I am very pleased with the announcement this past week or ten days of the signing of the new ARDA agreement with the federal government. This agreement will permit further extensive development of our agricultural resource and I am convinced that its implications for the many farmers in the Humber East District will have had very far-reaching effects.

The agreement will allow for the investment of some $15 million on agricultural programmes over the next few years. I am certainly sure that this will be of major benefit to all farmers in the province including those in my own District of Humber East. I feel that our government's increased involvement in ap,riculture and the sip,ning of the new ARDA agreement and our own new farming programme iR a rrflect1on of the growing awareness among Newfoundlanders of the potential of the agricultural indu11try in this province.

In the past I believe we have sorely nep,lected the agricultural industry as a potential major resource and source of revenue to our economy. The high cost of livinp, in Newfoundland and the unbelieveable cost of food are finally forcing Newfoundlanders to their feet on this issue. They are now looking to such areas as the HU1Dber Valley to provide part of the solution to this problem. 1772 ,

March 12, 1973 Tape 560 JM - 3 Obviously agricultural products produced within this province in ~uch potentially productive areas as the Humber Valley provide employment and increase economic benefits to the farmer while at the same time, Mr. Speaker, allowing local consumers to buy local products at a more reasonable price,in light of the fact that there are no costly shipping charges added to their retail sales price. This type of awarding situation can be achieved and I am glad that our government baa listed it as one of its chief objectives.

As outlined in the Speech from the Throne we have been very successful in establishing an agricultural c0111plex on the West Coast of the province and this new facility is to be opened later this year, Thia was a difficult and expensive project but our government felt that its undertaking was of vital importance to the growth of the industry on the West Coast. When opened,this complex will include an experimental farm, an abattoir for poultry and hog processing, an egg grading station as well as soil iaboratory.

I am personally convinced that this new development can make a great contribution to agriculture on the West Coast. Another idea which I think will prove very worthwhile is the establishment of farm equipment banka •• announced in the Speech from the Throne Tbeae bank.a should significantly increase the capabilities of existing farms and enable the establishment of many new farms. Mr.

Speaker, anyone who has ever visited the Humber Valley Area of the West Coast will undoubtedly agree that this is one of the moat scenic and beautiful regions of our province, I may be a bit prejudice obviously but I personally feel that it is the most beautiful. With the rolling hillsides,as you all know, the rugged mountains, the beautiful lakes and str~ams, parks, wilderness,it has a boundless potential for development and one of the greatest tourist attractions in all of Canada not alone our province. 1773

March 12, 1973 Tape 560 I - very pleased that our government have takan a very imp~rtant tep in harnessing this great potential by recognizing touri m as a valuable resource based industry and establishing it as a full-fledged department of government. In my own district I will be looking forward to a number of improvements in facilities for tourists during the coming year. There is so much on tap potentially in this area that there will be little problem in realizing these improvements. As everybody knows,of course,the Humber region is a well-known haven for sportsmen.

Our wilderness, rivers and lakes offer some of the finest hunting and fishing to be found anywhere in North America. In the area of wint~r sports,Marble Mountain is slowly being developed as an excellent ski area and as a potential it will become one of the finest ski resorts in all of Canada but I should say particularly Eastern Canada. Just a short distance to the north of HU111ber East we have in the development stages what is expected to be and will be I am sure one of the finest wilderness parks in Canada.

It is very encouraging to me to note that the JK - 4 future of the Gross Marne National Park is receiving such careful attention right now by our government. With this type of careful development of the park we can rest assured that the final product will constitute a great asset to the people of this province. As the gateway to the National Park and the scenic great Northern Peninsula,the booming Town of Deer Lake will undoubtedly derive many benefits from the thousands of visitors travelling to the park each year. I am also pleased that the ancient viking site at L'Anse-au­ Meadows is to be reconstructed.

This may certainly prove to be one of the greatest, again I am certain it will be one of the p,reatest historic attrActionH in oil of North Amr.rJca,wh~n complrted. I spoke earlier of rural d~vrlopmrnt nnd th~ need for greater attention to be ~fven to rural communities in thin province. I think that one of th~ most ne~lected nrcas 1774

March 12, 1973 Tap• 560 JM - s of rural development is in the area of tourism. So many of the villitors ------------to ~ur province each year are primarily interested in travelling through our picture qu• town• and ••ttlementa. Thee are people who have a great appreciation for natural beauty and are intere ted, a• we all know, in getting away from the hurly-burly presures and the maintrea of things to find this type of attitude.

Thi• potential in this specific area has never been realized becau e many of our rural communities lack sufficient or suitable accommodations for these pa~ticular tourists who want that type of attraction. They are not looking for clubs or vhat­ ever,they are looking for the quiet life, the beautiful scenery, 1775

March 12 • 1973 Tape 561 IB-1 thP. peorJ e that you meet, the :Individualistic anproAch that they hnvf' tn 11 r ... IJlll1>tna•"· r .. 1Alffnp,, l!"t th .. m ... rr thal. I r<1n•111II , .... re cnrt nt 11111111. Tu111· lil1111 1111 1hl1i Speec-h from the Throne, ,n1Lllne the ~·,111,c:pl of a proposed new programme which will see a nunber of hospitality homes licensed to provide this valuable service, we are told by my colleague the honourahle Minister of Tourism,that this system has proven successful in many other provinces and areas.

We agree definitely that there are a number of areas.in my own district particularly to this tyoe of programme. which would be ideally suited This new approach to expanding the Tourism Industry will not only :Increase the value of the industry itself but will more evenly spread the benefit of the tourism dollar throughout the province. Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that there exists this great tourist potential.

We also should realize that we have a great responsibility to protect that potential and to retain our environment in a pollution free condition is of vital importance to the future of the Tourist Industry in Newfoundland. We have seen the mistakes of other provinces and other countries in this area but because we are not as industrialized as many other regions we are in a position to prevent these same mistakes from occurring in our own province and I think this is of vital importance.

It is outlined in the Speech from the Throne that our government i.ntend to introduce legislation governing disposal of solid waste. I think the people of this province welcome that decision. WP. realize that anti-pollution measures are needed to prevent contamination of our inland lakes and streams as well as our other tidewater resources. The grave responsibility of insurinR protection for our ~od-givcn resources wht]e rcco~nizlnR And developfnR our industrial potent1nl must alwRys tnke first priority tn our neP.otfnt1ons wtth lncluAtr1nlistR who wish to r!'ltnhl fRli In thl,i; provtnc-e.

T know th,,t In my own district of ll111nher Ennt wr hnvr thr tnsk of c]esmfnp, up some of our wnter resource-~ which hnvr hrrn suhJf'c-tf'd vrry much so to pollution In thr pnst,1md this we nre nppronch1np, nt the prcserit t1mr. 177G

Marchl2, 1973 Tape 561 IB-2 Mr. Speaker, one area which has been of great concern to people in almost every region of our province is the provision of adequate medical services. I know that it was the chief priority of the people of my district of Humber East. Proper medical facilities have long been lac~ing in this district. However, during the past year our government has made considerable progress in correcting this situation.

The new Western Memorial Hospital which is scheduled for completion in 1974 will do a great deal to alleviate any medical problems in our area and in our coastal areRs by servin~ the needs of people of Corner Brook and the aurrounding districts and regions. Perhaps it is my own involvement in the medical field that has made me particularily aware of this need for improved medical facilities. I am very anxiously looking forward to the opening of this hospital in 1974.

I think one of the reasons that I got involved initially in political life is that I have been involved particularily in the West Memorial Hospital,for over twelve or fourteen years,and I may add that we worked hard with the previous administration to get this off the ground,and I give credit where credit , is due. This area particularily is of extreme importance to me.

The main thing about it,as far as I am concerned - and we have dealt in the last few days with medical problems and denturists and everything else - but there is no doubt in ~-~ind that thts complex '" is sure to attract many competent new doctors and medical staff to the City of Comer Brook. This is very important because we have lost doctors over the years that are essential and badly needed.right up to this present moment,because of our facilities. This will be eliminated with the opening of our new hospital. In is only during the rast year that the Town of Deer Lake opened its new medical clinic.

This clinic had long been needed to serve Deer Lake and the surrounding area. The hard-working people who gathered there in committee,deserve a great deal of praise for their efforts in finally securing this facility. Mr. Speaker, de8pite these valuable accomplishments in the district of Humber F.ast during the past year there remains a great 1777

March 12. 197 3 Tape 561 IB-3 number of pressing matters tn this district which require the continued attention of our government throuP,h the coming fiscal yenr. Our province continues to he afflicted with a •evere housing problem. Rhortage and a shortage which is particularily acute in the Humber East district. Many middle income families and most low income families are just unable to cope with the rising cost of mortgages and home construction. I was bitterly disappointed myself personally that the federal government did not see fit to include in its recent budget any relief from this distressing prohlem.

I waR very diRappointed. for instance, as were many other people In my d{strict,that the federal government fafled to remove thr twelve and a -half prrr.ent sales tax on building materials parlicularly in Newfoundland. It fs definitely a special area. Everything else Is hir,her than the Mainland, our problems of transportation and rates and freight rates. I think particularily that this part .icular tax should have been removed for this area. the twelve and a-half, I believe it is - AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Twelve. DR. FA~RELL: Twelve percent tax on building materials.

To mnny it has meant continuing frustration in their attempts to become home owners. Unfortunately the onus is now on our own rrovtnctal Oovernment to institute special proP,rammes to alleviate the housing crisis. I feel that it is narticularily significant that the Speech from the Throne noted that the housing problem was not confined to Newfoundland's two cities hut it is prevalent in the rural communities around this province as well. As outlined in the Speech from the Throne, the answer to these problems apnenrs to lie in the exnansion of the small mnrtP,age loan prop,rnmme which hmi h<'<'n discussed already.

The •compnnton prohlem tn thnt of housfnP, Is the cr1ticnl Rhortng,! of s1•rvfc<J 1:mrl which must nlso be r,fvcn RPT"lous connld<'ratlon in al I 11rr11s of 011r province, urJ,nn 11nd rurnl. Now, Mr. sr ... akf'r, tl1" ']UC'Bt Ion of the rropo~erl 1unior col ler,e 1778

March 12, 1973 Tape 561 IB-4 for the West Coast has lonit heen a matter of deep concern to the people of both the Humber districts. For the past several years it has heen recoRnized that the present facilities at Memorial University, in ~t .Tohn'R, are no lonp;er capahle of meet:tnp; the ever-p;rowiny. demandR of our own younp; people for hip;her learninp; in this ~rovince. Not only 1t there insufficient space within the present university structure to accommodate ttudents,but each year it becomes increasingly difficult to find Ruitahle living accommodations for these students in and around the City of St John's.

I could go into Many details, Mr. Speaker, on the cost savings to the people of the West Coast, as far as a regional seat of higher leaminr, and the economic henefit it would he to the particular area. That has been gone into in much detail already, so I will refrain from that. Because, Mr. Speaker, there were some questions as to where the junior collep;e would be constructed, I would say that I was nothing short of hein1, overjoyed to hear the honourahle Premier announce, a week ago, over the weekend, that construction would bey,in on the junior college in that city, Did I say regional colleP,e?

I am sorry, I meant a regional college, junior collep,e. I am sorry, Sir, for breaking a rule again. Like the honourable member for Bell Island, I am slow in learning. As I said, I was overjoyed to hear the announcement offically state by the honourable Premier, a week ago, that construction would begin this year. There is no douht whatsoever in my mind, ~r. Speaker. that this will prove to be one of the r,reatest economic, social, educational asRet which has ever accrued to the West Coast of this province.

I waR 111110 plcaRed to heAr the Premier announce that con11truction would 11ho hopin, thf" yc-nr, on n community 1779

~!arch 12, 1973, Tape 562, Pap:e 1 -- anb college for the town of Stephenville. Stephenville is a ~rowing to\111 and no douht this community coller,e will play an important role in .t tR drvrl opment. t!ennwhile, the rPgional collel!'e in Corner BrooJ, will allow local high school graduates to begin their university education at homewith less expense and more convenience, while at the saMe time playinp, an important role in the social and cultural life of the CiLy of Corner Brook and surrounding areas.

I think it will prove to be a tremendous asset to the people of the West Coast and indeed to the people of the province. ~r. Speaker. the honourable the member for Twillinp:ate did mention in his excellent address that he was a little worried about the Twillingate Causeway and this is th~ only specific item I am going into. I would like to allay his worries about the Twillingate Causer:ay. We c'.id such exce11Pnt work on the Twillinr,ate Causeway this year that we are away ahead of

schedule and althouph I did feel and I agreed with him at the time, I checked it out technically from an rnr,ineer1ng point of view, that at certain tide levels this was below water this apparently from an engineering point of view was quite accept~ble and to he expected, this is a settlinr. of the CauReway. We did r:o at the end of the year and initiate the putt1np up of the armour rock. We ran into a little difficulty in that because of the date, because we had advanced more in the building of thp c~useway 1n thr past yenr than we expected. ~r.

Spenl<er, I would 1ust lJJrr to answer the honourable mc-mher to 1111ny nnv w•rriPs h<' hm1 11ho11t th<' C:auAew11v. f.vc-rythin~ :IR 11,oinp, under hnml, thPrr h.-1s hN·n very little cl11m:tp,e to tlw r..-,usl'w11y up to thr prrArnt tfmr. Tam Allf<', Hr. !':r£'n1'<·r, thnt r·vrry mrml>r-r who nrrnl<l'J fn tlds Housr lA 1u:,tly proud nnd r1r.htly so, to spN1fr for tl11• r,rop1e of Ids <li1,trict. r c..1n assure you, t'r.

Sprnltrr, that no mc·mhcr in tldR debate is more proud of his district ~nd of his people than T 11111 of thc­ peor,1 r flf HumhPr r;ist who hnve he£'n so poocl to :m :lmn1r.ran~ twc,nty--tbree years aro, from the- Old Sod. Thank you, Sir. 1780

March 12, 1973, Tape 562, Par,e 2 -- ar,b ~.!_!__._J_:_A~_ff-.0:... Mr. Speaker, I would like Brat to conp:ratulate the mover of the motion that a cotmnittee be appointed t'o draft an Address in Peply to the p:racious Speech from the Throne delivered by the Administrator. Also, I would like to cony.ratulate the member for r.rand ~alls who seconded the motion as is traditional in this House. I think we were ap:ain presented with two excellent speeches which were noteworthy for their content as well as the manner in which they were delivered.

I am sure that each and every one of as well as the lar~e number of distinguished guests who were present enjoyed them. I would like also to congratulate the honourable member from Port au Port who has been elected as the Deputy Spea~er and r.hainnan of Committees. With his legal background and with his dedication to impartiality, I feel certain that this pflrticular session will see the affairs of the House well looked after. I understand you yourself, ~r. Speaker, will be leaving us for a short while, but you can rest assured that the House is in good hands.

We may have questions about the cotmnittee at times but I mn sure these will be resolved as well. I would also like to congratulate all the previous speakers in this debate for the excellent speeches they made and if I may, I would like in particular to pay tribute to the honourable member for Labrador South who represents a new party in this House and who I thought made a very, very excellent contribution to the debate. I feel certain that this honourable gentleman will make a rreat contribution to the deliberatiomof this House and indeed be a good representative for the people of that district. Mr.

Speaker, we are here really almost a year since this government wae elected And we were elected on the plAtform that we would as a tenrn epproncl1,p4y pnrtfcular att~ntJon to rural development, that new empha,i1 PJ would he plncecl on the f 1 eht>ry ,incl that res<'urce developrirnt would pl11y II pi;imAry part fn our appro11ch to the probll'ms of Nrwfoundlnn,I. I,suppofle thert> is hardly any avocation in life where II y,erson 1781

March 12, 1973, Tape 562, Page 3 -- apb oht11 ln11 "o mud, 11rlvict- 1111 in poli tica, hpcnu11.. f>Vf'ryhody w,. 111eet and avc,ryhn,ly WP l-now can tell us what we &re doin~ and what we are not,doin~ and how we could he doing it much better, But I think, ~r. Speaker, every member in this House is aware of his duty both to his district and to his party and of course. to himself. I am only going to speak briefly on one aspect of that and that is our duty as members of this honourable House to the House itself.

I do notihin~ any particular 111ember or any ~roup of members in this House should feel that they have any monoply on dedication, integrity, honesty or any of these ~reat virtues that we hear talked about so ~uch. I do feel that each and every one of us, as elected members,have a very, very resporsihle duty to Ree thRt the traditionR of thiR Hou!'l1> arr mnint1tined 11nd that we oct a11 honourah]r P,entli•mrn 1n o•,r <liscuRAions and de-11hPrat1onA.

Aa wr. 1111 know, this le~islature,under our system of r.overnrnent~when it :IR dealinr w:lth matters within its competence has exclusive jurisdiction and as such, we are dealing with matters that affect the lives of our Newfoundland people and we certainly should conduct our deliberations with di~nity and decorum. I feel, Mr. Speaker, there is a pronounced lack of respect in this province for politicians nnd in some respects we have ourselves to hlame, particularly J think in our conduct at times in this HousE:'. I do not purport to he nny authority on it, Mr.

Speai,E:'r, but I d:ld for Romt- yrnrs RCt ns :1 mrmher of thr 11taff of the 1!0Uf1e anrl I fc-r.l WP should do anythinp :md everythinp in our power to jmprove the situation here. I would like to make a few surRestion11 on how we could probahly rlo that. I think,•~- Speaker, we should have the utmost respect for you and the Chairman of Committees an<l whoever el sc- is in the Chair durinr . our dc]ibcrations. If at any time, as we will undoubtedly, we find it necessary to disaprrc with you or the Chainnnn of Committees on some rulinrs. I think WP should do so fn A proper and a rcRpcctfu] mannrr.

T do not thin!< :my mrmhPr of thin l!ow:r should rvrr liiclc- l,eldnd thc- 1782

March 12, 1973, Tape 5~2, Po~e 4 -- apb immunity of this Houoe. I do not think there is anything as distasteful to the public or to anyone affected by it as to find any honourable memeers here make any statements about individuals,either inside or outside this HouAe, that they would not repeat outside. I do not think we should infer by innuendo or make statements that we would be afraid to make outside the House of Assembly. I think 1>1e should not abuse any privile~es that may be extended or any latitu4es ~iven to us. I also feel that we should be fair in our references to each other.

I know that at times durin~ debate we can be heated and loRP our tempers, but I think references to "this crowd over here" and "that crowd over there" do very little I think to create the di,:,:nity that people can and should e:,q,ect to be maintained in this House of Assembly. I am very, very pleased to see that there is legislation being introduced to repeal a previous amendment to the Revenue and Audit Act. I certainly hope and feel that every member of this House will support that le11:islation.

Also, :!-'r. ·Speaker, I think that we as individual members of the House could do the Rouse itself and the district arld indeed the province a 100d service by payin~ particular attention to the reports of the Auditor General. The report of the Auditor Ceneral, Mr. Speaker, is a report on the audit of the public accounts of the province and it is 1783

March 12, 1973 Tape no. 563 Page 1 - MRW made not to the Hlni•ter of Flnanca or to the Lieutenant Governor­ ln-Councl l but to tho honourah l• Howu1 of A1111•mb ly. Tho Audi tor General, under our legislation and indeed anywhere we have the aame type of Legislature and Constitution that we have in Newfoundland, acts as the watchdog for the House of Assembly. He cannot be dismissed by the Lieutenant Governor-in-Council without the authority of this House of Assembly. He is a very, very important part of our democratic system and I think we, as individual members,should pay very much attention to his report.

His report, Mr. Speaker, that was made for the year ending 31 Karch, 1972, as it says in the letter of transmittal addressed to the hon. Minister of Finance: "In accordance with the Revenue and Audit Act,

Chapter 31 of the Revised Statutes of Newfoundland, I have the honour to submit herewith for transmission to the House of Assembly, the Public Accounts of the Province of Newfoundland for the financial year ended 31 March, accompanied by my report." This 1a a report for us. If we are going to get good value, we should pay particular attention to it. The duties of the Auditor General, Mr. Speaker, are laid down in the Revenue and Audit Act. It may be of some value if we were to reflect briefly on what these are. I refer to the report of the Auditor General where he quotes

section 57 (1) of the Revenue and Audit Act which says: "The Auditor General shall examine periodically the accounts of all branches of the public service and shall take such further steps as he may deem necessary to satisfy himself that the accounts are faithfully and properly kept and that the monies expended have been applied to the purposes for which the grant was intended to provide." He is to ensure that if we vote and allocate certain funds that it is to be spent for that purpose and if it is not, of course, he report& accordinP,ly to us. If no money is voted and money is spent under 1784

March 12, 1973 Tape no. 563 Page 2 a heading, then th• Auditor General reports accordingly and 1• obliged by Statute to report.

Section 59 (1) of th• Revenue and Audit Act: "Th• Auditor General 1hall proceed to examine from time to time the various account• of several departmenta u provided for by this act; examine and audit the account• of the province for each financial year and for that parpose.atateMntl vith respect to such account  shall be prepared by such peraons aa the comptroller may direct." So when the Comptroller or Deputy Minister of Finance audits the revenue and expenditures of the year and puses it on to the Auditor General, he in turn conducts his audit and reports to us. Now, Hr.

Speaker, moat matters of course referred to in this particular report do not cover lllUch for which this administration is reponaible but deals mostly with (while it is the report for the year ending March 31, 1972) matters that were carried over from previous years. I would like in particular, Hr. Speaker, to make a few brief references to his report and in that respect I refer to page fifteen and page sixteen of hi• report. On page fifteen he deals with enter­ tainment tax arrears and on page sixteen be deals with certain problems with respect to social security aasesamenta.

I will not delay the House by making any detailed references to it but it is very interesting and consoling really for us as members to know that we have such information available to us at out finger tips. If we want, of course, any more, I am sure, upon request, the Auditor General or someone in his department would provide us with it. We hear so much about the public debt of the province and over the years there was ao much debate concerning what amount it really was.

At page eighteen of the report for this year, tho Auditor General states: "the provincial debt and l 1abil1ties guaranteed by the province 48 11 t 1 March 31, totalled $1,124,335,000." Thia is our national debt. Aleo, Kr. Speaker, the Auditor General makes reference to certain taxes or the 1785

March 12, 1973 Tape no. 56J Page J rall1.1r• of LI•• aov•rnmanl ,bacauae It col le• :t• certal n lnauranee Lau, • Then h• deal• at aoma l~nP,th on P•v.• twantv-tour of ht  report wlth the mlnlng royal tla  dua thl  province by th• Iron ,Ora Coap~ny of Canad.a. It i  inconceivable, Hr. Speaker, that a company a large as the Iron, Ore Company of Canada, that has made as much money or has been operating and with such concessions and such privileges.to owe this province the amom1t of money, which according to the Auditor General's Report is a jue t claim by the province.

At page twenty-five of the report, the Auditor General states as follows: " At the date of my report in 1971-1972, the audit of mining royalties from the Iron Ore Company of Canada, the matters brought to the attention of the House of Assembly in paragraph 43 of my 1969-1970 report and repeated in para~raph 53 of my 1970-1971 report still have not been disposed of by the Department of Finance." The Auditor General deals with the amount that this company has been assessed for mining royalties for the years referred to.

He says at the bottom of page twenty-five: "Hy enquiries into the collection of mining taxes and royalties further disclosed that assessment notices issued to the Iron Ore Company of Canada for the years 1956 to 1964, inclusive, accepted as deductible expenses, $3,956,128 for municipal and school taxes paid to authorities outside the province.

Although the assessments were made subsequent to 1 December 1960, these deductions were granted despite a written opinion from the Department of the Attorney General, dated 1 December 1960, that such municipal and school taxe  were not deductible by the company for the purpose of calculating royalty payments." In other words, Hr. Speaker, thia company appears to be deducting monies which they had spent outide the province from the amounts on which they paid royalties.

"The resulting loss in revenue to the province was $197,806, (5% of $3,956,128)." He says, "In view of the legal opinion of l December . 1960, I have not received satisfactory explanations. " He goes on: "why the assessments made for 1965 to 1964 178G

March 12, 1973 Tape no. 563 Page 4 incluaive, accepted the•• deductions and also why the COIIPaDY hu­ nbt been required to remit royalty payments ou the non-deductible expenau clai•d in ita returna for the year 1965 to 1969. 11 "It ia noted that th• legal opinion of 1 Dacember 1960, mentioned above hu, in effect, been confirmed by another opinion of th• Department of Juatic• on December 9, 1970. In 1111 opinion adequate proviaion for the collection of mining taxu and royalties and the prompt examination and asseaament of retums aubmitted by the mining c0111paniea hu not been in effect." Now, Mr.

Speaker, thia 1 a situation where apparently the Department of Justice adviaes the Department of Finance that the province has a good claim to these funds but for some reason they have not been ,· 1787

March 12, 1973 Tape 564 JM - 1 collected and I for one can see no reason why a company the size of the Iron Company of Canada will not pay its just royalties to this province. It says ,"Further to the foregoing paragraphs our enquiries disclose that the Iron Ore Company of Canada has submitted its royalty returns for the years 1970 and 1971.

The royalty payment of $2,226,043 based on the 1970 return is taken into account in 1971 and 1972 accounts of the province and the payment of $2,458,895 based on the 1971 return is taken into account in 1972-1973." The Auditor General continues, "No assessment notices have been issued by the province on the royalty return submitted by the company for the calendar years 1970-1971.

However we have been informed by the Department of Finance that school and municipal taxes in excess of $2 million and $1 million paid by the company to authorities outside the Province of Newfoundland and claimed as deductible expenses in 1970-1971 returns, respectively, will be disallowed by the province~" . But this is for 1970-~971, Mr. Speaker.

"Thus, an additional royalty of $185,000"(and so many cents) "is due to the province on the basis of the 1970-1971 returns." The Auditor General concludes,"The above mentioned amount of $185,000 and other royalty underpayments mentioned in this paragraph total"( and this is the total amount, Mr. Speaker)''$887,391 at 31st of March 1972." This, Mr. Speaker, again I state is outrap;eoul'l,for a company to owe this province this amount of money. AN HON. MF.MRER: (Inaudible). MR. AYLWARD: Well I realize, Mr. Speaker, that this matter goes back l'lome time and I am glad to hear that it is in hand.

Can we conclude that it is being collected? Are they paying it? AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. AYLWARD: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think somebody should conclude that if this Money is owed to the province that it should be collected, AN HON. MEMHE R: The Auditor General - MR. AYJ.WARD: The Auditor C.enl'ral in not referrfnr, to the educational 178 iJ

March 12, 1973 Tape 564 facilities in Labrador City. What the Auditor General is referring to and properly so is that the Iron Ore Company of Canada ahould not be permitted to deduct any money spent on education facilitiea outaide of the Province of Newfoundland from revenue expen•••• in calculating their royalties paid to this province. There is no question about money spent in the Province of Newfoundland, in Labrador.

What the Auditor General is saying is that the Iron Ore Company of Canada 1• improperly claiming aa expenses prior to calculating the royalty monies that are being spent on education outaide of the province. That is what the Auditor General is stating. Also, Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General refers in another upect of hi• report to a matter that will be of some interest, I am aure, to the Minister of Recreation and Rehabilitation and that is the expenditure• on physical education and youth that were made and JK - 2 I refer to page thirty of that report. Here again, Mr.

Speaker, there vu a subat91:1tial departure from what is considered a prudent and proper vay to spend money under that particular heading. In fact I can speak with some degree of knowledge of how the monies under that particular beading were spent in my own district and I refer of course to the recreational facilities at Southern Harbour. But I commend this particular part of the Auditor General's Report to the Minister of Recreation and Rehabilitation. Also, Mr.

Speaker, he refers in his report to the trust fund that was set up for retarded children from the sale of the Newfoundland Savings Bank and I did not know, I only knew for the first time that this $1 million that had been set aside, the proceeds from that sale for this particular worthy cause is apparently now no longer available but haft formed part of the revenue for the country and has been paid into the conaolidated revenue fund, Aaa1n the Auditor Ceneral on this particular matter states, and I quote from page forty-five, he questioned the propriety of the action taken by the Comptroller and Deputy Minister 1789

March 12, 1973 Tape 564 JM - 3 of Finance, that is in paying this $1 million back to the Newfoundland Exchequer Account. Finally, Mr. Speaker, in his report the Auditor General makes reference to the select committee appointed by the House to consider the report on the public accounts. I think this is a very, very important committee and I sincerely trust that it will be constituted and that it will fulfill the expectations not alone of the Auditor General but of the members of the House of Assembly. Now, Hr.

Speaker, this debate affords a member the opportunity to speak on the needs of his district and it is only one of the two opportunities when we are given this latitude. So like the previous speakers I intend to take the full advantage of this golden opportunity. I would like to refer first to the area of my district known aa the C11pe Shore Aren and thnt 1,i from. - the Hiniater of P.ducation says, "Hear llear:"because a proportion of his district adjoins mine in that area. Well 1 refer, Mr. Speaker, to the particular area from Point Verde to really St.

Brides but 1 probably will,since the Minister of Education is here,go as far as Branch. I only wish, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Education and everyone connected with the administration of the public affairs of the province could some years ago have concluded that that road up that shore would have been upgraded and paved. Now and again this of course was started by the previous administration, that is the construction of the highroad from North Harbour to Branch. This is a large new road driven through the wilderness with no coMmunities-,and no people living between North Hnrbour and Branch

whereas from Point Verde to St. Bribes we have a populntion of approximately a thousand people. Now, Mr. Speaker, these men and women have lived along this shore for years and years and there appears very little doubt that they will continue to reside there. One of the best fishing grounds 1 suppose 17DO

March 12, 1973 Tape 564 off the Island of Newfoundland is off Cape St. Mary'• and in the area where the fishermen from St. Brides and Branch go to fish. The Colllllunity of St. Bribes itself has a population in exce•• of ix hundred and along that particular piece of highway I would say there are probably 1,000 people. I can say. Mr. Speaker. without fear of contradiction,that this dirt road from Point Verde to St. Brides is not alone the worst road in this province but it is one of the worst dirt roads in North America. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear! Hear! MR. AYLWARD: The hon. gentleman says• "Hear!

Hear!" and if anyone knows anything at all about that road. Mr. Speaker. it is disgraceful to think that in 1972 a thousand Newfoundlander would have to tolerate the condition of that particular road. In addition it is very. very dangerous, very dangerous. Last year a bridge vaa built in Cuslett and that bridge was washed out. Now I submit. Mr. Speaker, that the whole life style of the people of that area is centered around Placentia and the Placentia Area and they will always commute more towards Placentia than to North Harbour and Branch.

I beseech the Minister of Highways to do whatever he can to find sufficient funds to con111ence at least to upgrade and pave that particular portion of the road. The people in the area are doing everything,! think. Mr. Speaker, that can be expected to assist themselves. They have up on the shore an association known as the Cape 1791 JM - 4

!larch 12, 1973 Tape No, 565 Nl1 - 1 Shore n~v~lopm~nt A~"orlntton. The~ft men and women, repr••entfn~ th• 11 mall Communltl(!!i of Cu11lctt 0 Patrick'• Cove, Branch, St. nride!i, and 411 that area, meet and discuni, their problems and try to obtain ~hatever assistance they can from government. They have a very, very large number of probably the beat finhermen in the province 1~ the Coomnmity of ~t. Bride•e. They have a very, very difficult harbour to operate from. The vater is very shallow and the whnrf and breakwater facilities,which were installed by the federal government, now needs extension and repair.

I realize that the matter is outside the domain of this province, Mr. Speaker, in the seni,e that it is a federal matter, but there is one matter and that is the fish plant at St. Bride's which was destroyed some years ago and which this government was committed to rebuild. I think that that is a very, very important matter which concerns every man, womnn and child on that ahore. I aek the Minister of P'inheries .vhcn he in considerinr, his new progrmnmen nnd hie new policies, not to forget the people of thfe portfculnr arcn.

The fiahermen'a committee are in the procese of preparing a brief showing the large llfflOUOt of fish tl'.nt is caught and transported out of that area. I have no doubt, Mr. Speaker, that ~he figures will certainly support the proposition that there is sufficient fish in that coromunity to maintain some fishing facility. Aleo, Mr. Speaker, that particular srP.a of the Cape Shore has terrific potential in sheep reiaing.

I do not auppoee any other aren of the province hos the potentfnl for sheep rn1ninR thRt the Cape Shore hne nod we hove on that ahore nov four aheep breedcrn assocfntfonn ftnd they ftrc working in very, vr.ry close co-operation nnd every month or ao, Hr. Spcnkcr, they report their activitif's in this newsletter, whnt in referred to as 11 Thr. Cnp~ Shore Aren. Development J\9socintion." But the people in the area are very, very poor. They do not have the financial resources to approach this industry in the manner 1"/ D 2

March 12, 1973 Tape NO. 565 1M - 2 in which it ahould be approached to make it really a viable venture. If this government, which I feel ure they are, are really co1111nited to rural development, Mr. Speaker, and really want to do omething, I do not think there is an area of the province that is more adaptable and more challenging than the Cape Shore Area. The people themselves have shown great industry and they are trying to do everything they can with what they have, but their resources are very, very limited. Really, Mr.

Speaker, this is an area where there have been aufficient atudiea made of the potential for the government to really alt down and the appropriate department• in a co-ordinated effort meet together and decide what can and will be done in this area. There was a proposal submitted ,I think to the Department of Community and Social Development, now I suppose the Department of Rural Development, and this was a proposal for the designation of a rural development region under the terme of the ARDA III agreement, the Great Placentia-Cape Shore Rural Development Region. Now, Mr.

Speaker, this is an excellent report and it deals quite thoroughly with all the problems and the potential of that area. l commend this report to the appropriate department of government, in particular the minster responsible for agriculture. AN HON. 'MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. AYLWARD: They submitted this. They did a great deal of work, Mr. Evans who is now I think the Chairman of the Rural Development Authority, I remember attending a meeting in St. Bride'• with this gentleman and he discussed this report. Mr.

Speaker, personally I vaa never so impressed with a man who was so committed to the rural development in Newfoundland as this gentleman and l think his ideas were excellent and he seemed to have a great knowledge of what could and should be done in this particular area. t\ 1793

March 12, 1973 Tape No. 565 NM - 3 But thi• report said the outports,and he ia talkin~ About th• outportR in thl" f:::ipp ShorP Ar,-A. thl'! out11nrt111 Ari'! lo,::11t,o,I c: lo11e tn one, of t lu• 111ot1 t produc r I vc t lesh I n8 groundl!I in the, province, however catching fish is restricted by the small boat technology used and severely handicapped by the absence of a protected harbour anywhere in the subregions. These two factors limit the length of the fishing season and the size of the catch.

The fishing economy will remain restricted until there is a movement towards larger boats and until a safe harbour can be constructed in the area. This report, Mr. Speaker, in addition to dealing with the fishery, deals quite thoroughly with the potential of the sheep raising and in the report, Mr. Speaker, reference is made to the potential market for sheep in Newfoundland. I would refer you, Mr. Speaker, or honourable members of this House, to this particular report and in particular the statistics that it provides concerning sheep raising. There are a couple of tables here, Mr.

Speaker, if you permit me a moment I will find and quote to you. These are extracts, Mr. Speaker, from a stu~y done, The Development Potential For Agricultural Food Industry in Newfoundland by Messrs. Rozini and Davidson. Extracts from this report are quoted here to justify the great future for the sheep industry on the Cape Shore. It says, "the per capita consumption of agricultural products in Newfoundland in pounds, we consumed in 1961 3.1 million pounds." It talks about the mutton and lamb requirements for the province.

It says; "In 1964 we produced in this province 652 , 000 pounds, our requ:ln,ments were 1,000,522. Wo had a deficit 11t that time of ovr.r 870,000 pounds ." The projection of commmption: "In 1'165 it wn11 1.6 million pound11: tn 1')70 - l.R, in 1975 - 2 milUon and in 1985 - 2.8 mHlion pound11." 1794

March 12, 1973 Tape No. 565 '1M - 4 "Generally it can be een from this information that the market exit at preent and indeed looks even more promising for the future. Considering the fact that eighty-five per cent of all our lamb is imported, we cannot afford to mia the opportunity for development offered in thi  field." Further proof of the po ibility is offered from a further extract from the above report, "In sheep, the capability appears to exist for about one million ewe• with a farmer value of between fifteen to twenty million and a multiplier between fifty to sixty.

At present there are 20,000 ewes generating less than $.5 million _ of economic activity. Much of the potential increase lies in lamb and mvtton for export or for increased local consumption, in excess of the relatively slow uptrend in per capita consumption." This report continues, Mr. Speaker• "Sheep railliftg constitutes one of the greatest economic poaibilitiea for employment and incomes in the agricultural sector of Newfoundland. This is assessed in terms of land resource, capacity for live stock," and it goes right on, Mr. Speaker, and deals with it in a very, very scientific manner.

This Association realizes that in order to do sheep raising on a large scale you will need a great influx of capital to buy equipment and machinery, to educate the individuals in the area, but Mr. Speaker, all this study has been documented and fortified and i  now available to the department of government concerned. In addition you have the submissions to the 1795

MJtrch 12, 1973 Tape 566 PK - 1 Minister of Ar,riculture and Forestry from the ehainnan in the area and this shows that at present there are something like I think \400 AhPPP t-•h1ch havP hren df.Rtr1h11t:Pd Amonv.11t on,. hundrl'!d or morr. ind1v-frlun1A nn,I tlir-•r wnnt ,mm,. r1111tln to l,uy I think It l11 'i/HlO mor... r.ut with nny proper plnn unrl wfth proper financial 1111af11tancr and direction there fa no rP.11son not to helieve, Mr. Speaker, ttat this could be the transformation of our econony of that whole rep,ion .:ind ar,ain T. commend it to the P,overnmPnt for their consf.rlernt1on.

Now comin~ down in my d:li1trlct, Mr. Speaker, we have the area of Southeast Placentia and Point Verde and you will recall a few days ago I presented to this honourable House a petition which outlined the prohlems of the community of Southeast Placentia and Placentia with respect to water and sewerap;e. Now I am so glad, Mr. Speaker, to i;ee here the t'inister of Municipal Affairs and Fou!'!inp; under whose _jurisdiction this particular ouestfon comes, because as I aaid at that time and I will repeat ar,ain, Mr. Speaker.

I do not th:f.nk there is any prohlem that is as pressinr, in Newfoundland torlay in any commun:fty as the quE'l'ltion of water and sewerage in the Town of Placentia. As I stated,! do not want to delay the Hou!'!e too long on th:! s, · that community had the water installed there before the turn of the century, we have there approximately or in excess of 2, noo people 1 i v:1.ng really on a beach. They only have cesspools and septic tanks and there is no douht, ~r. Speaker, informed sources say that there are leaks in that line.

We know that the water pressure now is just over twenty pounds because one of the lines across the ~ut is broken. Pe also know since the trade school was built in the town :f. t was nccesi:;ary to inRt;ill a pump and when they pump water from the systel'l unclouhtf'<lly ti v£1c1111m Js crentc-d. If you have rt v:icuum you havP low prrRRurr :in,! vo11 h:-ivr holrR 1n the pf.pc .,nd yon hnve l'lf'Wrrnr,e from homes 1n thr rnnm11mfty on t:hr hc-11rl,,lt fs only nnrmAl nncl nnturnl to cnnc.lmle thnt If thnt wnt er Rystrrn hrrnn,rs cnnt.,r,lnnted yo11 could cP.rtn1nly hnv<' an outhrrn~ of tvpho1d in Plncrntin.

This, Mr. SpenkPr, could endanr,er the 179G

March 12, 1973 Tape 566 . PK - 2 health of all ' the residents and I again beseech the ~ovemment to take prompt steps to install a new water supply and this new water supply woul~ of couree have the effect of providing sufficient preasurein the existinR pipes ,if the water pipes were not replaced ,to resist any aeweraRe v.etting into the water line. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I think that the government, really the previous administration neglected Placentia because when its resettlement was so predicated upon the people of the District of Placentia F.ast and in particular the Placentia Area receiving these men and women and their families from the island~ in Plac~ntia Bay,the government should certainly have given these towns priority as far as water and sewerage are concerned Because as I stated previously, Mr. Speaker, and I will repeat again,we had moving into Placentia in excess of 105 families, AN HON. MEMBER: Freshwater and Dunville. MR.

AYLWARD: Freshwater, Dunville, yes I am glad the honourable member for Bell Island. I only wish that he had been concerned about them then because he was a member of the cabinet and probably could have done something about seeing to it that they would have gotten water and sewerage before the people moved in. AN HON. MEMBER: Shame on them! Shame on them} MR. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, MR. NF.ARY: We have water and sewerage on Bell Island, MR, AYLWARD· You have water and sewerage over on Bell Island but you did not get the fishermen on Bell Island from Placentia East. But.Mr.

Speaker. the honourable gentleman is correct when he says the other communities, Freshwater for example, I will repeat these figures because they may interest honourable members. Recauee I think I can justify beyond any douht that there is no district in this province so affected by resettle~ent as the DiAtrict of Placentia East. I refer of course to both the Placentia Area itself and Arnold's Cove and Southern Parbour which I will deal with in a moment. 1797

March 12, 11H3 Tape 566 ,, \ PK - 3 But Freshwater took sixty-four families with 305 people, Dunville forty-fiv~ hnu~eho]dR with 2~~- Pln~PntiA etvhty-ffve householdR with 1,01,, J.,,-,,.,y.,f,t., t.,rty two with :JIil, J'.,111I v.,,,1,. nl11,. with rtrty five.. l'ox llarbour t1v., hou6toloo1,tH w1tl, thtr-ty ·nine 1n<ltvf'1uals, in all, Hr. Speaker, there are 250 houReholders from the islands of Placentia Bay, •,1ho moved into the Placentia Area, hringing in 1246 people, 1246 between 1965 and 197(). Now the Town of Placentia itself, Mr.

Speaker, had 404 people moved into that to~m from these islands and probably from other areas hut mostly - in five years. There was no extra financial resources made availahle to the schools to accommodate the great influx of Rtudcnts and in the demnnds for RervfcP. lnnd no further financial aid or assistance waR r,iven to this municipality. So I say, Mr.

Speaker, the government owe their duty to the people in the Placentia Area for not alone themselves anc1 the great contribution they made to the economic life of this province hut also for extendinJ!: their arms and accommodating the people which they choose to bring in there. As I said this is a top priority and I ask the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing if he spend any money at all this year, if he spend $1.00 he should spend ninety cents in Placentia. AN HON. MHfJlF.R: Inaudihle. MR. AYLWARD: The water and sewerare, Mr.

Speaker, I think is a desperate necessity for the re~ions which I mentioned previously. In that Placentia Area itF-C'] f also we h.ive ,,noth<:'r town of Jers<'ysfdP.wf th a population of over 553. They hnve II hip prohlem ther<' wfth their IT'Afn rand runninp: throurh thP community, t•r. Spr-;1J,er, hecauRe thr> childr<'n from .Jerseyside must walk fn 1: .,ny cases to :o;chool in Fre!lhwater \.•hfch means that they travel up that very, V<'ry dRnrerous hf]l in Jer~eyside.

I see to l,e lucky to have the appropri:tte minister here when J need him. but J see the l'inister of Transportation and Co~munications here and he drove throu~h that area with me last year and I knov hC' appreciates the danrer 17D8

March 12, 1973 Tape 566 PK - 4 and I commend ,that problem to him for his attention. The Town of Freshwater itself, Mr. Speaker, as many honourable gent·lemen here know, the town really to a large degree was created when Argentia was started and twill deal with that in one moment.

But let us have another council, they have a main road runninF. throu~h their community• part of which is maintained by the Department of Highway• This is a very small town with a very low tax income itself and I ask the Minister of Highways to prov:[de for thet town what it haA provided for every other town in the Provinve of Newfoundland and that is to maintain the highway through the commlmity. A peculiar situation exists when you run half way around that community. If the government says; "W~ll, all right,we will maintain the road but only to a certain point., 11 This was, Mr.

Speaker, again a decision of the previous administration but I hope it will be changed, where the snow plows will come and just plow a part of the highway. Instead of makin2 the whole loop, it will turn around and go back again

whereas if they just travelled around the loop they could plow the road. Now that is a very, very small request but I commend it to the Minister of Highways to look after it. Also, Mr. Speaker, they want a small road to a beach out there which I think would mean a lot to the community and would provide a small park for the area as well as give the tm,m council access to a great source of sand and gravel in the areas. AN HON, ME!-'BER: Where about is that? MR. AYLlvARD: It is just down between Argentia really, you go down from the top of Freshwater. It is only a small portion of road.

Dunville, Mr, Speaker, is a very, very prosperous and growing com­ munity •• Most of our residents there or a larp,e number of them are employed in the Lonr, llarbour Area. They have been very fortunate in obtaininp. extensionA to their water and sewerage for which the residents are very grateful but this area like the whole area itself needA more service land to accommodate people moving into the area. 17~9

Hnrr.h 12 . 1?73 Tape 566 PK - 5 On~ thin,: ahout Placent111, Hr. Sp•aker, and I uppo111e it 1a not alo.ne .Placentia but several other areas of the province and that is the IIIUtli.cipal structure. We have four councils there in a relatively small area. It is not for me to say what they should or should not have. But I am ·~lad to see this ~overnment appoint,Dr. Whelan is it; to cpnduct the study into the municipal affairs. I hope 'that he takes a ,tQod ,hard · look at municipal structure in that respect, 1S00

March 12, 1973 Tape 567 IB-1 I remember attending a meeting of the Placentia Area Development Committee •nd the clergy present and several members voiced their objections to the structure itself. Far be it from .me to aay what they should have or should not have, whether it should be one or two but I think the people of the area should be given the chance t.o express their opinion on what is best for all. Should we have four councils or should we have onei I suppose, Mr. Speaker, the criticism of government is as active in Placentia as it is anywhere else.

We seem to have too much government really in this country. There are only 20,000,000 people. We have our federal government and we have ten Provincial governments. We have any number of municipal governments and really, in a sense, I respectfully submit that we are over-governed.

We could get along with ~robably d lot less government than we have and in addition to this,of course, we have so many boards that it is almost startling for any small - and I think the honourable member from Fogo mentioned it the other day in his speech - there are so many tribunals and boards that it is difficult for the small man to understand and even cope with in today. Not alone boards, ~r.

Speaker, we have the Public Utilities Boards and all the different marketing boards and then we have a new sort of government, I suppose, recently , and these are the authorities: We have the Urban Authority and the Rural Authority and the Clean Air And Soil Authority and practically everywhere you go you have a hoard or an authority. So, it would he a ~ood ti~e to have this problem looked at, ~r. Speaker, and it certainly needs a deen consideration. Also, Mr.

Speaker, in the Placentia area we need recreation facilities and •~ain I am fortunate to see this honourable member here, the ~inister of Recre~tion and Fehabilitation. If he does anything else in his term, he will justify restructurin~ if he builds a stadium in Placentia. Not alone if he builds a stadium, 1-fr. Speaker, if he only co-opernte11 with the efforts of the people themselves to try and get a stadium. They have worked so desperat~ly over the years 1801

"'!Arch 12, 197'3 Tap@ 5fi7 and they were promised not one, Mr. Speaker, but two really. They would be very pleased to get one. IB-2 AN °'HONOT!RABLE MEMllER: Where is the fifty thousand for Long Harbour? MR, AYLWARD: We will get to Long Harbour in a moment. I am only to Placentia but I will deal with that, Mr.Speaker. I would say that the Organization of the Star of the Sea took it upon themselves to pledge fifty thousand dollars to get a stadium for the young people of the area. These men decided of their own volition that it was time for some action. There has been enough talk about it. What can we do?

We will make a start. So, Mr. Speaker, they took fifty thousand dollars and then they approached the federal government throup,h local initiative programmes - they were unsuccessful.unfortunately - to get some assistance to just try and get a stadium started. That is how desperate the situation is out there. I do not think again, Mr. Speaker, that you will find so many young people in such a small area that need some particular type of facility for after hours, after school and we have so many problems today in this province like everywhere else. We talk about drugs and this and that but, Mr.

Speaker, we must.give the young people something to do. I think that the recreational facilities is one of the best steps, the best ~xpenditures that this government can make. I only hope that the Minister of Finance and the Treasury Board will Ree fit to give this minister a good vote because I am sure that this is p,oing to be a department of government that will really require substantial funds. I know in my district alone, Mr. Speaker, I could do with three to four or fjve million dollars. Also, Mr. Speaker, we need and this is in his domain, a home for the aged.

The honourable member for nurin seems to be extremely fortunate. F.verythtng that js on the go he p,ets one. I am going to enlist - T hopr thr c)ergy or interfaith groups fn the area will get top,ether nnd mnkc their proper RuhmiRRion to thiR p_cwemment and extr11ct thr Rnmc rornmftm<-nt nncl T undenitnn<I nil they wnnt IA thnt they wf11 ~u11rnntc,• occupnncv of n1nety-t"fght pt"rccnt. T nm in thf' procr8R 1802

March 12, 1973 Tape 567 IB-3 of having the people tudy thi  problem and I hope that they receive sympathetic consideration. Mr. Speaker, I supppose the basic need in the area like anywhere else or any other area in the province is one for jobs, lack of industry. We can talk about erviced land and serviced land is neede~ desperately in each community but what we need above and beyond every­ thing, Mr. Speaker, is jobs. Again I think, Mr. Speaker, that a wonder­ ful case can be made for the Placentia area for jobs.

You have all the e people there in these co111111unities who lived on the base for a period of about - or first of all I suppose, Mr. Speaker, they were really driven from their homes in a sense, the people in Freshwater, when way was made for the base, when the property was taken and they were all moved in there. What can be done for the area now? I suppose, Mr.

Speaker, if there is anything that can be done - and I respectfully submit it certainly can - one would think that because of the proximity to the best fishing grounds, I suppose in the island, Placentia Bay, and they have certainly some of the best fishermen, one would think that the fishery certainly is the only industry that could and should almost be crying out for development. Now, Mr.

Speaker, again we are fortunate here in that we can say to the Minister of Fisheries not alone what we feel you could and should do but we have available and I am sure his department has available to him the report of this study commissioned by the Argentia Task Force and prepared by Messr. Aven and Haber. This is an assessment, Mr. Speaker, of the inshore fishery potential in the Placentia Bay and St. Mary's Bay area, This again is an excellent document. It documents all the sig~ificant and important factors concerninR the fisheries. The report was prepared by Mesrs. Don Aven and J.H.

Haber of the Research and Productivity Council, Fradaricton, New nrun wick. This study was 1Mde for thfl C11n11cilnn l1ttt111rtm@nt nf P111•1nn11l P:rnnnmfr ll. ict111n~tnn. !ln, thfi' Ar1:1.,ntl11 1' uk. ft't1rt•ei lu111 tide riroreulan11l atuav at f:hfl pot13ttt.lal of the fisheriaa in Placentia Hav made so that they could see what could be done for this area. 1803

Top• 'H,7 18-4 Now, Mr. Spenker, thP. firnt part or thi  report 1ay11 that thq r{l1111on for thl" 11t11dv """ to prnvid1,1 hAck11:ro1md 1 n fonn.11t1 on which roultl 1,., IIIUH! to IIN!IC'IUI th• r .. 11.Jhlllty or our prnpo11ed Fish Processtn~ Complex at Placenti11 baaed upon community wharf facilities. At the time the work was commenced they were asked to include St. Mary's Bay as well as Placentia Bay in the studies and then the study was extended to certain sections referred to in the report as (28), (29), (30), and (31), all of which I know are familiar to the honourable Minister of Fisheries. Mr.

Speaker, this is a report and it deals with the potential fish landings in the Placentia Bay area and tells the Department of Fisheries or anyone concerned with what species of fish and how much fish could be available if a fishing complex were built at Placenti~. Now, they make one very, very significant submission and that I submit is with respect to the possibility for a queen crab industry in the Placentia Ray area. They say queen crab is not presently fished in the area. Exploratory fishing indicates the presence of sufficient crabs to supply a commerical fishery. 1804

March 12, 1973 Tape no.S68 Page 1 - MRW It 1 ••ti .. tad tht th• available crab population in Placentia Bay cpuld autain annual landings of three million pounds. The population in St. Mary'• is cODSiderably ••aller and could not sustain a commercial fishery on its own. These stocks could augment the potential landing from Placentia Bay, making the sustainable landings an estimated 3.1 million pounds per year. How, Mr. Speaker, I submit that this is a significant quantity of crabs and could certainly provide the basis, as this report inferentially suggests, for an industry.

In addition the report deals with the other ground fish; herring, caplin, · shell fish and could and should,I respectfully submit, form the basis for some action in the area by the Department of Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, the report goes on to say what potential fish landing  would be available for a new facility. It might be interesting to quote thee figure , Mr. Speaker.

It aya, "all increua available in cod, 1.4 million pounds from the preent landings in the Placentia Area also 6.4 million pounds would be available if so much fish were not salted in the island  of Placentia Bay by the fishermen who retum there. When they add them all up, Mr. Speaker, they give a total of 15.2 million pounds of cod fih that could be available for a new proces ing facility in the Placentia Area. How, Mr.

Speaker, I certainly feel that with this type of documentation, with the need for jobs, with the professional expertise of the men who prepared this, reourcu and advice that was available to them. i~, certainly should form the basis for soma action by the Department of Fisheries to establish some facility in the Placentia Area. Now, Kr. Speaker, the matter is dealt with in aoae detail on page sixty and ixty-five of this report. It is disturbing, Mr. Speaker, to note that such a large quantity of fish as is caught in this area is 1805

March 12, 1973 Tape no. 568 Page 2 taken outide the area for processing. In fact of the twenty-one million pounds that were caught there in 1970, thirty-three per cent of it vaa salted; twenty per cent was processed within the area and forty-seven per cent of the cod fish caught in this area was processed outside the area. With such a need, Mr. Speaker, for jobs, with such a potential catch available, it seems only normal and natural to conclude that a start should be made to put some fishing facility in Placentia.

Now there may be one hundred and one good reasons why private industry would not choose to establish in Placentia because certainly, if they are processing the fish elsewhere, they are not going to cut off their own source of supply. The government, Mr. Speaker, are not new now to being in the fish business. They are in it in Burgeo and, of course, there are substantial funds given to other fish entrepreneurs in various parts of the province.

With this concentration of population, with their proximity to the fishing grounds, with so many excellent fishermen, it seems normal and natural that this is a development that should be started and started forthwith. As I said, Mr. Speaker, we do not need any more studies. The studies have been don~ and the potential has been proven. All that is required is action. I again, under our new and energetic Minister of Fisheries, beseech him to have officials in his department to study actively the content of this report and see really, Mr. Speaker, what he can and should do to implement this.

Now one important matter probably that needs consideration with this development of the fishery would be, Mr. Speaker, the situation at Argentia. lhat is difficult but needs again, Mr. Speaker, some action and needs it promptly. When I waA first elected I took a tour of the base with the commander out there.I arranged it, and we looked over the facilities. I do not purport to be an expert on what buildings should be retained or what should not be demolished. Mr. Speaker, it is a crying shame to see any building being demolished in that area that could at some 1806

March 12, 1973 Tape DO. 568 , ••• 3 future time be of some benefit to the people of the province. AN BON. MEMBER: There is hardly a vacant building left standing. MR. AYLWARD: That is right. I will deal with that in a moment. There is hardly a vacant building left standing. That, Kr. Speaker, I submit ia disgraceful. When you look at Argenti• - we can make such a case, It'. Speaker, for Argentia. Unlike Harmon Field, of course, where they have the Harmon Field Corporation,that wu paaaed over. 'l'hat is not done. The Americana tat• that they atill want Argentia. They have a lease for the land in Argenti&.

But aurely, Hr. Speaker, the American Government are big enough, if they are approached and the situation is explained to them, to aee that something could SJ1d should be done about Argentia, to make whatever facilitiea there are available to people of the province. All I mentioned a 1110111eDt ago, when the Ame~icans settled in Argentia, in order to get title to that property, they had to expropriate it and the people moved out of their homea there,to Freahwater,1.n muaea; the whole community moved out to make way. Now admittedly, they were paid. AN HON. MEMBER: 'l'hay even moved away, Sir. MR.

AYLWARD: 'l'hey even moved away. Well I did not know that. Anyway I auppose they did not worry too much, thoae people. I am talking about liver • But, Mr. Speaker, imagine what would happen today in Newfoundland if any authority, the American Government or indeed the United Nations decided that all the people in any province hould move out to make way for a war effort. That is what happened in Argentia. Kr. Speaker, we know that a good steady job, with a pay cheque,at that time meant a lot to these people. But, Mr.

Speaker, thev had no reason I suppose to conclude at that time that in thirty year• time the job would be finished, that they would be left high and dry in Freahwater, that they would be left with no facilities - (I did not mean that pun, Hr. Speak.er). But they were high and dry in Fraahwater. They are today. Here we have all those people who moved out of their home and all their fishing premiaes 1807

Karch 12, 1973 Tape no. 568 Page 4 and everything to make way for the American Forces. They were probably v•ry glad at the time to R•t a job. Thirty year attar, Mr. Spaker, there are a lot o[ them without any real ource of employment, with their former availability to the aea gone and gone forever. Now ve have the Americans there with that base. Now what can be done? l suggested to the government that they should approach the Federal Government at Washington and ascertain what do the Americans intend doing with that base? What are their future intentions?

Should they really hold on to the entire facilities that they now have at Argentia? I had a few suggestions here, Mr. Speaker, and l puaed them on to the government. I have done it by letter to the Premier. l think they bear repetition. I think that the provincial government should request the federal government to ucertain from Washincton what the future of the base really is, Secondly, the province should, in consultation with the United States Authoritiea, obtain a complete inventory of existing facilities at the base. Thirdly, the province 1808

~arch 12, 1973, Tape 569, P•~e 1 -- apb should take prompt steps to stop all future demolition or all further dMolition of buildin~• on the base. ~--~~RY_: _ It ill almost too lilt• for you, thf"y are all l'One. MR. AYLWARD: Yea, it iA lAte. (Inaudible) AN RON. ~ER: 1-'R. AYLWARD: ------- - Yes, I realize, Mr. Speaker, but I suppose it is never too late to make a start. I a~ree entirely with the suggestion of my learned friend that it ia too late, but it is better late than never. Fourthly I suiFest, Mr.

Speaker, that if the navy want to retain the bnae, then the province should obtain adequate assurance that they will maintain existing buildin~a. Five; if the navy will not or cannot retain or maintain these buildings, then the province should,in consultation with the United States Authorities,work out some arran~ement on the maintenance of these buildings provided it is foun4_ that they can be of assistance or use to the province. What they are sayinr, now, of course, Mr.

Speaker, is; "Oh the buildings are wartime buildinp,s,they would be no good anyway." The province should or somebody actinp. on behalf of the province should at least have an opportunity to see if there is anything there that is being demolished that could be of some assistance to the people in the area. Six; the province should detcrm:1.ne what facilities on the base could be of any value in the drvelopment of the fishery and immediate steps should he taken to try ~nd ohtain title to the property. There are two sides to that base, Hr. Speaker, the northside and the southside.

The northside has extremely r.ood dockin~ facilities and facilit:les that could be ~vailahle or could be of some benefit, certainly in the future develop~ent of the f1shery. ~-~ NF._AJl_Y_: (Tnaudihle) ~fl!. AYU'ARD: Yes, hut thl'y are onlv availahl e on a thirty day basis. The r,resf'nt arrAnp,er,C"nt 1md I know the Commander of the base and the l'n1trd Stntc-s Authoritif'R ar<' very cooper.nt1ve within their own landmarkR and thnt is, if Any fndustry want to move in they can take a buildinr, or buildinrs on a thirty day notice to vacate. 1809

t,l,or,·h 12, 1~71, Tnpl'.' :,(,'J, Pnr,I'.' 'J · ·· nph A!I ttrlN. '"f'"BEfl : - himrar. . -- -- -- . - - -- - tfR. A YI.WARD: That is right. ~•r. Speaker, what reputable industry ------ -- - could be expected to spend larr.e amounts of money necessary to make a proper dPvelon~Pnt on such II hns:ls?

For thnt rea11on J thin~,as I snid brfore. thnt the province should t11kl" strpll immediatPly to try and get some arran~e~ents worked out with the Americans on how these buildinrs could he obtained or maintained. seven; the government should determine what facilities on the base could be of value to individuals 6r companies intendin~ to service oil rigs. We hear so much talk about the servicinr, of oil rigs that I sincerely hope that this will become a reality, ~r.

Speaker , but again, Argentia and the Placentia Area is in such desperate need of employment it would be a wonderful help to the people if something and some of these facilities could be made available if they weretof course, of any value in that respect. Eip.ht; an agreement should be worked out with Washinpton, that if the 1-mericans mmt to hold Arr.entia, then probably one side of the base,as I said before,could be returned. l'r. Speaker, we have the fishermen, we have the fishinR potential in the bay, we have the possibility at least of trying to get the facilities at Arrentia.

With all these, I respectfully submit something could and should be done in that area. Mr. Speaker, moving up the district to Fox Harbour and the Ship Harbour Arf'a I coulcl say ar.ain that we have from Fox Harbour to Ship Harbour one of the worst ronds that anyone ever trevclled over. I hro11f!:ht (yes, the ~-finister of Education cRn fHnile hi>causr he is in a pnr:1tion nnd proh:il ,ly for onr rrm1on or nnothr>r am! J would nrver Jrnow why , nor wrrnl,! J r,11N1r1, hut J nm riurr that tl1r1·r will prohahly hr n hit of p.,vr1~r11t Rnr1•;1rl 1n St. ~•nrv's.) Tr thnt c-011lcl Rprrnrt ovrr, l~r.

Spr.,lrrr to thr ron<I hc·lwf'rn Fox llnrhour and Ship Jlnrhour, J thJnk :It would fill a r.rrnt nrf'd. MR. OTTENHF.U !J] l : -·-- ... - ... ... -.. - Wr are hoping to get someonf' to move :It over. }'P.. /IYJ.W/IPJ) : Rut, ~•r. Spraker, these men al 1 worlr in Long llnrhour 1810

1'farch 12, 1973, Tape 569, Paize 3 -- apb and they have to use that road. At certain times of the year, particularly in the sprinR th~ road is just completely impos1ible. I have hRrl,as I mentioned in this House duriniz a previous debate, numerous calls from the residents of the area and particularly the priest who is trying to serve the people there, that he just could not ~et over the road. We have almost a similar situation in Lon~ Harbour to ~ount Arlin1Zton lleiizhts. The road was paved last year to Long Harbour but the road from ?-fount Arlington Hei17hts is still to be,not alone ~r.

Speaker,(but this particular portion of highway will have I am told and I am ,1ad to know some action is being taken on it) surveyed but the road built. I hope the road from Long Harbour to Mount Arlinr,ton Heir,hts will be rebuilt and paved this year. I know the Minister of Transportation and Communications is familiar with it and he assured me that the new route was surveyed last year and work will commence on it this year. Now, Mr. Speaker, moving up to the other end of the district, Southern Harbour and Arnold's Cove. These a~ain, Mr.

Speaker, are two cotT1111unities that were almost created as the result of resettlement. in 1965, Southern Harbour had twenty families, today 1t hae 130 families. Arnold's Cove which had a~out thirty families now has approximately 400 familie .s. Arnold's Cove received tre water and seweraii:e last year. Southern llarhour has a problem at1d a very serious prohlcl"I with re11pect to wnter. Ar,a:fn, ~r. Speaker, th:fe ie a community thflt ~rew almost completely from people who resettled from the islands in Placentia Bay.

For any town to grow frol"I twenty families to one hundred and thirty fnmU:fl!e in a spnce of just five years 111, I Tl'soectful1y ,iulmd t,n rh"nm11c-nnl vrowth, hut thcsrr 1• • neorfoulj prohlt1m fn th11t community as far as water iR concerned. Firt they have difficulty findinr, water and when they do, Hr. Speaker, the source is contaminated. Two years a~o the Department of Community and Social Development had two artesian wells mad~ :fn the community, one of these wells ia 1811

~arch 12, 1973, Tape 569, Page 4 -- a~b supplyinp; a nurnher of homes but the other well is not being used becausP the water supply is ap;ain not suitable for consumption. People have hncl to r,r:lnr t.•nter as f11.r a11 two nnd threr. miles to the communities :md also. Pr. Snc-11.kt'r, there is a pronounced lnck of any suitable land for development and of course, they cannot attempt to develop unt11 they get water and sewerage.

We have hnd several meetinp.s with the Department of Younicipal Affairs, and the cost of installing water and sewerage is again very, very high and in order to make it financial feasible, ¥r. Speaker, the residents are expected to pay a very high price. Even with that, Hr.

Speaker, the council and the residents of the community are very serious about their efforts to obtain water and sewer11..p;e and in that respect we are now in consultation with the nernrtment of Hun:lcipal Affairs trying tn have the fish nlant in the nrcn approach DREF. 11.nd obtain sufficient funds to have a waterline installed into the fish plant. These fish plants, Mr. Sneaker, in areas like Southern Harbour, are experiencinr. considerable difficulty because you have one arm of the federal roverrunent telling them that unless they install a supply of fresh water they will have to close- the plant.

They _1ust cannot get fresh water there. rt is the only fish plant in the community, it employs approximately twenty people, it could I am told if operatinr, all yPar round employ approximately eirht pronle, but that will hnve to close unlr.ss some water sunolv is found. I sincrrc-ly trust that the- Drpnrtmcnt of ProvfncJal ftffairs w1 l I 1 n consul t :it 1 on wJ th the Dc-p;1r tmc-nt of 1'.c-onom1 c Devel opmrn t ol•tnfn !'luff1cfrnt funds to instnll water 1nto thAt community. Arnold's Cove, ?-'r.

Speaker, apa:fn a town which 11:rcw from thirty families in 191',5 to over 400 families, one. of thr fastest ~rowinp, towns in Nc-wfouncllnnd. This community <lPspcratPly nc·ecls a pnved road connection with thr Tr.ans r.nnadn llip,hway. Mr. Sp£>nkcr, thrsc- two communf t:I c-s, I rc-src-ct ful 1 y suhmi t, ,;ho11ld ohtn f n or shou] d rc-crive from thr f"OVPrnmrnt rror<>r conr:fdrrnt:lon now thnt tlds nrw 18:12

March 12~ 1973, Tape 569, Page 5 - apb development is planned for Co111e by Chance. One can imagine, t-fr. Speaker, the feelings of the residents of these communities when the gov.ernntent or indeed anyone talks about builditlfl: a new town of ten thousand, one thousand or however many thousand pe~ple here. This meane 1110re water, more sewerage facilities into a new town and here we already have two towns, one without any ~ater and sewerage, 1813

March 12, 1973 Tape 570 containing about eighty per cent of people who are brought in to be resettled there. I think that these two communities, Mr. Speaker, with proper assistance from the Department of Municipal Affairs and other departments of government could easily accommodate some of the growth that is expected from Come by Chance. With respect to Come by Chance, Mr. Speaker, I realize that another opportunity will be afforded us to debate this meaaure vhen the legislation changing the original agreement and new legislation is introduced,respecting the new agreement.

But as the member for the district in which the refinery is located I was very pleased to learn that the new refinery permitted the government to make new financial arrangements surrounding the first refinery. This new refinery has provided the government with an opportunity,as stated by the Premier, to renegotiate the financial terms of the first refinery. It has also given them an opportunity to obtain a better arrangement for the new and much bigger refinery. I will have further to say on the matter, Mr. Speaker, when the legislation is being introduced to deal with the matter.

The new refinery will mean .jobs for individuals in the area and I am very pleased that the development is taking place in my district and 1 trust that the residents will benefit. There is one observation I would like to make, Mr. Speaker, and that is in my opinion the people who should benefit most from this venture are the people who may or could possibly sustain the great~st loss and in this respect I refer of course to the fishermen in Placentia Bay and in particular the fishermen in the nearby area. There can be no doubt, Mr.

Speaker, that there is always of course a potential hazard from pollution and that will be present with these large tankers moving in and out there. Al110,of courr.e,the fishermen in the immediate area have to be nffccted. Fishermen who fished on the Come by Chance shore, 1814 JM - 1

March 12, 1973 Tape 570 JM - 2 who have trapped there for years and years certainly will not be able to et their trap  in thi particular area and these fishermen who could possibly sustain a lo should be compensated. Also, Mr. Speaker, the Communitie  of Arnolds Cove and Southern Harbour, these two coaanunities should benefit and they should benefit by being provided with the municipal facilities to accommodate any influx of people in the area. Aa I said before, Mr. Speaker, the greatest benefits should be to the people who could sustain the greatest loss and that of course is the fishermen.

Common sense and natural justice dicate and demand. that these people be given the first opportunity to any good jobs in the area and as I said before,if their fishery is affected they should be compensated. Again it appears ridiculous to me to consider the construction of a new town without providing proper facilities to the existing Towns of Southern Harbour and Arnolds Cove. Now, Mr. Speaker, this was briefly the needs of my district. I hope that they will receive the attention which they merit and deserve.

There are a few matters that I would just like to speak briefly on and I understand the House Leader to say there is "Supply" that we want to finish this afternoon. AN HON. MEMBER: Castle Hill, it is a good location. MR. AYLWARD: Castle Hill is a big location, I could speak a long time on Castle Hill. I think I will wait for the budget for Castle Hill. So, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to make a couple of remarks on the Department of Justice end in this respect I would support the efforts of the Newfoundland Law Society and particularly the Benchers in their efforts to have established in this province an appeal court. I feel as a practitioner and certainly as a member of the House of Assembly that the time has come for the Province of Newfoundland to have its own appeal court. A• you probably know, Hr. Speaker, I am sure all members of the House,particularly the learned gentleman who have occasion to practice in our court know, we have here a trial division 1815

March 12, 1973 Tape 570 JM - 3 consisting of the chief justice and three puisne judges. We are,with Prince Edward Island, the only other Province in Canada without an appeal court,and this I think needs correction and I hope that this government will introduce any legislation that is necessary to amend the appropriate act. I know my hon. friend from White Bay South,in his short period as acting Attorney General, took some steps in that direction and I certainly support them and I know that the present Attorney General feels the same way.

I do hope that we can and will in the very near future see an appeal court established in this province. Now, Mr. Speaker, another matter of close concern to me personally and one of some importance to the province is the question of legal aid. The legal aid system that we have in Newfoundland today was introduced in 1968 by the Law Society and it was achninistered by a committee of the society and has worked very, very well considering not the limited resources, Hr. Speaker, the absence of any financial resources as far as paying the lawyers themselves were concerned.

I want to thank the Attorney General, the hon. member for Burin, for his co-operation and assistance not alone recently but when he was Attorney General before because he did provide us with the office facilities and the means whereby we could pay a secretary. An office was open with a grant of just $10,000 a year and we received $10,000 a year for just three years and then for the last two years we received a grant of $25,000 per year. Not one cent, Mr.Speaker, not one cent of our grants have been pa.id to any lnwyer, certainly not up until last yea.r, for legal fees.

Any monies received by the legal aid committee from this government was particularly an<l specifically to ccvcr disbursements. I think the Law Socirty descrveR n p;rent den! of commrndntJon for their co-operation and thrlr contrlhutlon to lcp;nl nld. We lfve inn socfrty thnt 1s deeply committed to improving the material welfare of all, to providing essential medial services and 1816

March 12, 1973 Tape 570 JM - 4 to ensuring equal opportunity for education. A ociety so committed hould not tolerate the lack of adequate legal representation for those without means to secure it for themselves. In my opinion no person should be precluded by poverty from having necessary and adequate legal services. I am glad, Mr. Speaker, to learn that the federal government has made available such financial resources for legal aid.

I know that agreements have been made by the Government of Canada with the Province of Alberta, British Columbia and I think it is New Brunswick for legal aid and of course the system applies throughout Canada and that is that the federal government has agreed to pay to the province fifty cents per capita or ninety per cent of the cost of providing legal aid in criminal matters.whichever is the lesser. MR. SPEAKER: I would like to inform the hon. member that he has only five minutes left. MR. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I am sorry,I thought I started at 4:30 P.M. I have a few more remarks here.

I will not be too long, Mr. Speaker. I was never, as I said before, so pleased, Mr. Speaker, with any piece of social legislation emanating really from Ottawa as I was with the financial assistance made available for legal aid. Thia province administered legal aid to the needy of the province and we had a yardstick for eligibility which provided as follows: a person who is entitled to legal aid if requiring them to provide legal aid impair their ability to provide themselves or their families with a decent living. Now, Mr. Speaker, the federal test of eligibility, 1817

March 12. 1973 Tape No. 571 NM - 1 1•8•1 atd to ,lotermlna who wtll ran,lv., 11111•1 1111I but lh11 le•t that 1• to be applied is as follows - the provincial agency hall determine the financial circumstances under which an applicant for legal aid may be approved as a recipient thereof. but in so doing shall apply flexible rules which take into account whether the applicant can retain counsel at his own expense without him or his dependents suffering undue financial hardship.such as . incurring heavy indebtedness or being required to dispose of modest necessary assets. This test, I respectfully submit, Mr.

Speaker, is much wider than the one _that is presently in existence and will make legal aid more available in criminal matters to the needy of our province. Under this present plan which the federal government proposes to enter with the province, any person charged with an indictable offence will be entitled for legal aid. Also, Mr. Speaker. if there is any resident in Newfoundland charged with a

summary conviction offence where there is a likelihood that individual may get a period of imprisonment or lose his means of earning his livelihood, then that individual is entitled to legal aid. This is a great step forward, Mr. Speaker, and one which will mean,as I said before, a great deal to a great number of Newfoundlanders. Mr. Speaker, the people of the province should realize it is not legal aid for St. John's where the legal aid offic~ is or for Corner Brook but for the entire province.

So that aftrr the Province of NewfoundJnnd executes thin a~rcemr.nt with the Government of Canada, no matter where any mim in Newfoundland with an indictable criminnl offence, or whether he is charP,ed with an offence punishable on surranary conviction, where there is a likelihood that that mnn could be imprisoned, 181.8

• March 12 1 1973 Tape No. 571 NM - 2 he can and will be able to telephone the legal aid office and be entitled to a lawyer. MR. NEARY: Will the lawyers travel all over? MR. AYLWARD: The lawyer  will travel anywhere, Mr. Speaker. What has happened is this, Mr. Speaker, the Government of Newfoundland is very, very fortunate to be able to benefit from the fact that there is in existence in Newfoundland today the legal aid committee and we have them 1at the request of the Attorney General, again who I commend for his interest in legal aid,and •~reeing to act as the provincial agency.

We will then, once this agreement is executed, in consultation of course with the Attorney General and the Department of Justice, make sure that everyone in Newfoundland is aware of this. That is one of the stipulations of the agreement executed by the Government of Canada with the other provinces that sufficient publicity is given to and that the r'>ple know that it is available, because, Mr. Speaker, it is nc good providing ler,al aid unless we can make sure that the people who need it most are aware that it is available. MR. NEARY: ·When do you propose to do it? MR. AYLWARD: We propose to do it, Mr.

Speaker, in this mannet: Previously we wrote the Department of Justice and suggested that the magistrates be contacted, I circularized every magistrate in Newfoundland and advised him, and I will do so again and also the police and even under this particular set up when it is implemented Mr. Speaker, notices should be in the prisons and in the penitentiaries and also one very import aspect of it, and financial assistance will be available, that a person will not have to wait to be really charged in court but if he wants advice and assistance,and that is very, very important, Mr.

Speaker, that he should have available 1S19

March 12, 1973 Tape No. 571 NM - 3 to him a lawyer just by phoning and I hope - Mil. NEARY: Will he be told that by the 111&gistrate? MR. AY