Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 2 (27th Legislature, 4th Session)

27-4-2

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2. 30 o'clock, Tuesday, February 23rd, 1965 Opening Prayer by Madam Speaker. MADAM SPEAKER: Presenting Petitions MR. W. HAMILTON (Dufferin): Madam Speaker, I beg to present the Petition of Earl Langton McGill and Others praying for the passing of

An Act to incorporate The Dufferin Rac ing Association. MR. JAMES COW AN, Q. C. (Winnipeg Centre) Madam Speaker, I beg to present the Petition of Francis Alexander Lavens Mathewson and Others praying for the passing of

An Act to incorporate Manitoba Museum of Man and Nature. MR. GORDON W. BEARD (Churchill): Madam Speaker, in the absence of the Member for St. James, I beg to present the Petition of The Convalescent Hospital of Winnipeg praying for the passing of

An Act to amend

An Act to incorporate The Convalescent Hospital of Winnipeg. MADAM SPEAKER: Reading and Receiving Petitions Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees HON. S. McLEAN, Q. C. (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the report of the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections. MR. CLERK: Your Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections ................. . MR. McLEAN: Madam Speaker, this is a rather lengthy report and its somewhat tech nical.

In view of the fact that it will be printed in Votes and Proceedings, may I suggest that the reading be dispensed with and it will then be reproduced for the information of all the mem bers. MR. G. MOLGAT (Ste. Rose): Madam Speaker, is it the intention then to move con currence? Can he tell us when he will do so? MR. McLEAN: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Education, that the report of the Committee be received, and if I may just at this moment say that concurrence would be moved after all members have had an opportunity of exrunining it in detail.

REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS Your Standing Committee of the House on Privileges and Elections was reappointed and reconstituted on Monday the 17th day of August, 1964, at the Third Session of the Twenty Seventh Legislature. Your Committee was instructed to study and review the provisions of The Election Act with a view to making such recommendations respecting amendments thereto or improvements in the law relating to the election of members of this House as may seem to the Committee to be appropriate. Hon. Mr.

McLean was elected chairman of the Committee and the Committee set its quorum at seven members. Your Committee met on Monday and Tuesday, November 30th and December 1st, 1964, on Monday, January 4th, 1965, and on Monday, February" 15th, 1965. The Committee examined The Election Act

section by

section and also examined the statutory forms under the Act. Your Committee recommends: 1. (

a) That the definition of the word "candidate" as it appears in

section 2(1)(

a) should be re ferred to the Legislative Counsel for clarification. (

b) That the term "scrutineer" should mean an agent appointed by the candidate under sec tion 71(3) and that

section 2(1) and all relevant sections be amended accordingly. 2. That

section 2(4) be amended to correct the titles of certain municipalities. 3. That an assistant be appointed to the Chief Electoral Officer who would be known as the Assistant Chief Electoral Officer and

section 3(2) and (3) be amended accordingly. 4. That

section 5(1)(

d) be amended to read "judges of federal" instead of "judges of Dominion". 5. That sections 6 and 7 dealing with the obligation to act as returning officer and the re fusal to act as such be deleted. February 23rd, 1965 Page 5

6. That

section 14(7) be amended by deleting the words "refuses to accept office or who" in the first and second line thereof, and substituting the word "office" for the word "it" in the second line thereof. '1 7. That the use of field books by enumerators in urban polling subdiV:isions be dispensed with. 8. That

section 16(1)(

c) be repealed and the following substituted therefor: "Persons who are patients in a mental hospital or institution for mental defectives". 9. That

section 17(1) be amended: · (

a) By deleting the words "British subject by birth or naturalization" in the third line thereof and substituting "a Canadian citizen or other British subject" therefor. (

b) By deleting the words "or, in the case of a woman, by marriage" in the third and fourth lines thereof. (

c) By deleting the words "of the full age of twenty-one years" in the fourth and fifth lines thereof and substituting the words "is of the full age of twenty-one years or will attain such age on or before polling day at such election". (

d) By deleting the three months residence requirement in the electoral division so that this

section 17(1) will read "has resided in Manitoba for at least twelve months prior to the date of the issue of the writ of election". 10. That

section 17(2) be repealed. This sub-section refers to the three months residence in the electoral division. 11. That

section 17(3) be repealed and the following substituted therefor: "any person who is, or becomes qualified, whose name does not appear on the original voters' list shall be entitled to have his name placed on the list of voters by the person making the revision". 12. That

section 17(4) be repealed. This subsection refers to the qualifications on polling day and the three months requirement in the electoral division. 13. That

section 18 be amended by deleting the words "for such period of three months" in the third and fourth lines thereof and substituting therefor the words "at the date of the issue of the writ". 14. That

section 20(2) be amended (

a) by adding before the word "One" in the first line thereof the words "In rural polling subdivisions". (

b) by deleting the words "if designated and if not designated" in the third line thereof. (

c) by adding after the words "polling place" in the third line thereof the words "or near the polling place". 15. That

section 20(3) be amended to provide that the enumerator should prepare in addition to the number of copies required, one additional copy of the voters' list for each candi date. 16. That

section 22(1)(

a) be amended by deleting the word "three" in the first line thereof. 17. That

section 23(1) be amended by deleting the words "fifth and fourth days before" in the fourth line thereof and substituting therefor the words "the first and second days after" therefor. 18. That

section 23(4) be amended by deleting the words "Not less than two or more than six days before revision of the voters' list" in the first and second lines thereof and sub stituting therefor the words "On the first day before revision and on the first day of re vision". It is also recommended that large notices should appear in the press and the notices of revision be brought to the attention of the public through the media of radio and television. 19. That

section 29 be deleted. This

section refers to advance poll certificate. 20. That

section 31 be amended to set the date of appeal as soon as possible after revision. 21. That

section 32(1) be amended by (

a) deleting the words "on application therefor" in the sec ond and third lines thereof. (

b) adding before the word "agent" in the third line thereof the word "official". 22. That

section 36(

a) be redrafted in a positive form and (

a) subsection (

a) of

section 36 be amended to include "Canadian citizen or other British subject". Page 6 February 23rd, 1965 I ""' - I I - I ""' i � I

(

b) subsection (

b) of

section 36 be amended by deleting the word "enumerator" in the third line thereof.

Section 15 of the Act be amended by adding that "No person nominated or declared to be a candidate may be appointed as an enumerator". (

c) correct the spelling of the word "practice" in the fourth line of subsection (

c) of

section 36. (

d) subsection (

c) of

section 36 be amended by deleting the words "on account of corrupt practice" in the fourth line thereof and substituting therefor the words "having been found guilty of a practice, which if convicted in Manitoba would constitute a corrupt practice". 23. That

section 37(3) be amended by deleting the figure"(1)" in the second line thereof and substituting therefor the figure "(2)". (correction) 24. That a statutory form be drafted for acknowledging nomination papers of candidates and their deposits. 25. That

section 39(2) be amended by adding after the word "nominated" in the second line thereof the words "or withdraws in accordance with

section 45". 26. That

section 47(4) be deleted. This

section deals with penalties for refusal to act as a deputy returning officer. 27. That

section 49(1) be amended to provide that the qualifications of a poll clerk be the same as those of a deputy returning officer - i.e. - a voter in the electoral division wherein the polling place for which he is appointed is situated. 28. That

section 49(2) be deleted. This

section deals with the penalties for refusal to act as a poll clerk. 29. That

section 55(1) be amended by deleting the figures and words "

(1) Subject to subsection (2)" in the first line thereof. (clarification) 30. That the form of ballot paper for use in the provincial elections be the same as that used under The Canada Elections Act and all references made in our Act to ballot papers be changed accordingly. 31. That

section 66(1) be amended (

a) by adding after the word "election" in the third line thereof the words "or a voter who suffers from a physical infirmity". (

b) by adding after the word "and" in the fifth line thereof the words "where possible on the ground floor". 32. That

section 67 be redrafted deleting all references to the certificate in Form 19 and taking into consideration that "persons who expect to be absent or who are physically infirm" will be permitted to vote at the advance poll. 33. That the voting hours under

section 70 be from 8:00 a. m. to 9:00 p. m. 34. That

section 71(3) be amended by deleting the words "two voters of the electoral division" in the second line thereof and substituting therefor the words "two persons". 35. That the Act be amended whereby each candidate may appoint an agent-at-large. See

section 87 of the Election Act of Nova Scotia. 36. That

section 72(1) be amended to include an agent-at-large. 37. That

section 75(1)(

a) be repealed and be substituted as follows "(

a) has not voted at the advance poll". 38. That

section 77(2) be amended to provide for only one voucher resident in the polling sub division, and whose name appears on the voters' list. 39. That The Election Act be amended to provide that where after revision and appeal it would appear, in the opinion of the Returning Officer, that a number of qualified electors re siding in close proximity to one another have been inadvertently omitted from the voters' list, the returning officer could apply to a County Court Judge or a magistrate for an order authorizing the addition to the list of the names of such persons. 40. That enumeration be carried out in hospitals as defined in

section 2 of the Act where patients are considered as "extended care" patients. 41. That

section 90 and all relevant sections be amended in view of the recommendation to use a ballot similar to the ballot used under the Canada Elections Act. February 23rd, 1965 Page 7

I 42. That

section 106( 16) be amended to provide for the deputy returning officer to forward I Form 50 to the returning officer, who would in turn forward same to the candidates. 43. That

section 129(4) be amended by deleting the words "On nomination day or" in the first and second lines thereof. 44. That

section 130 be amended . (

a) by deleting the figure "(1)" at the beginning of the section. (correction) (

b) by deleting the word "at" in the first line thereof and substituting the word "during". (

c) by deleting the words "and no person nominated or selected as a candidate" in the first and second lines thereof. (

d) by deleting the words "at any time after his nomination or selection and before the date for the holding of the poll at the election" in the second, third and fourth lines thereof, and (

e) by deleting the words "or person nominated or selected as a candidate during.the period mentioned". 45. That a simplified proclamation (Form 4) similar to that used in the Province of Nova Scotia be made a statutory form under our Act in lieu of the present one. 46. That in view of the recommendation with respect to

section 29, Form 19 be deleted and that Form 20 be amended accordingly since forms 19 and 20 were companion forms. At the bottom of Form 20 the form be changed to provide for the signature of the person using the form instead of only his name. 47. That Form 35, referring to a form of ballot, be amended to comply with the form of ballot as prescribed by the Canada Elections Act. 48. That Form 37 which illustrates a properly marked ballot should be substituted by a ballot properly marked in accordance with the Canada Elections Act. 49.

That Forms 40 and 42 be amended to conform to the proposed amendment dealing with residence in the electoral division. • 50. That Forms 49 and 50 be amended to provide space for the signatures of the scrutineers after completion of the count by the deputy returning officer at the poll. I 51. That

section 66(4) be amended to provide that one of the days set out under this

section for the advance poll be a Saturday whenever practicable. All of which is respectfully submitted. Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MADAM SPEAKER: Notices of Motion Introduction of Bills Before the Orders of the Day I would like to attract your attention to the Speaker's Gallery where we have the Fur Queen, Judy Colvin from The Pas, her princesses Shirley Brock from Yorkton, Dianne Botterill from Flin Flon. They are accompanied by Mrs. Elsie McKay.

I would also like to attract your attention to the Gallery on my right where there are some 26 Grade XI students from Plumas, accompanied by their teacher, Mrs. Walker. This school is in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Gladstone. On behalf of all members of this House I we !come you. Orders of the Day. HON. DUFF ROBLIN (Premier) (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, may I lay on the table of the House a copy of the Public Accounts for the year ended March 31, 1964; Return under

Section 111(2) of The Insurance Act; Return of the Administrator of the Estates of the Men tally Incompetent; Return prepared pursuant to

Section 20 of The Public Officers Act; A detai led statement of all remissions made under

Section 50 of

Chapter 272 of The Revised Statutes of Manitoba; Report of any overdrafts or lines of credit arranged since the last sitting of the Legislature; Report of the Treasury Board on the statement of the Public Accounts for the Province of Manitoba for the Fiscal Year ended the 31st of March, 1964. MR. MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, I presume there will be copies of these for all groups? MR. ROBLIN: The usual distribution will be followed, Madam Speaker. MR. R. PAULLEY (Radisson): Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, I wonder if I may direct a question to the Honourable the Attorney-General?

Will the members of this House be receiving copies of the Tallin Report, and if so, when? MR. McLEAN: Yes, they are in the course of being printed, My advice is they will not be available until Friday of this week from the Queen's Printer. PageS February 23rd, 1965 I

MADAM SPEAKER: Consideration of the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant Governor. The Honourable the Member for Lac du Bonnet. MR .. O.F. BJORNSON (Lac du Bonnet): Madam Speaker, I consider it an honour to have this opportunity to move an Address to His Honour in reply to the Speech from the Throne of this Fourth Session of the Twenty-Seventh Legislature, and I wish to thank the Premier and his colleagues for having given me this privilege . May I also be permitted to congratulate you and wish you long tenure. in your exalted office.

It will come as no surprise to you, Madam Speaker, or the Members, that I have chosen to speak of the constituency of Lac du Bonnet which I represent so proudly, and I believe it to be the most interesting and unique of all the areas of our fair Provinee - with the possible exception of the Flee Island maybe. Here we have a wealth of natural resources second to no other area in our province. We have a population made up of a cosmopolitan group of almost every race in our world.

They include all the Anglo-Saxons, along with Ukrainians , Polish , French, German, all the Scandinavian races, and many others from China , Japan, Lebanon and Iceland. Even our farmers are resourceful for they branch out from the traditional to grow such fantastic crops as wild rice. Who ever heard of a farmer planting seed in a lake in Manitoba? This is being done and has been done for many, many years. In fact one family has its own lake, plants the rice, harvests it, and supplies seedling plants from coast to coast. Other of our farmers are taking advantage of growing alfalfa.

If the season is good for seed, at a very advantageous price, and if not a good seed year, then the alfalfa will yield two or three crops in one sea1>on. Located in our village of Lac du Bonnet is a plant that will purchase the alfalfa, dry it, package it and sell it as a product of Manitoba, and it's a real going concern. Last Season, our Department of Mines and Natural Resources allotted the whole of the Whiteshell, which is the largest wild rice producing area in our province, to the Indian Wild Rice Co-operative Ltd.

The co-op is made up of 10 Indian Bands, ranging all the way from Fairford to Fort Alexander, and we are given to understand that it was a very successful venture, and provided our Indian folk with a fine crop of some 60, 000 lbs. of wild rice and provided them with a healthy profit. We have the only pulp mill in Manitoba located in Pine Falls. Here, since the early 1920's the Manitoba Paper Company has been making newsprint, employing some 500 persons in the mill and many hundreds in the woods operations in season. The Manitoba Government Air Service is based in Lac du Bonnet Village.

This Govern ment Department fly the technical civil servants to the areas where they are needed and where speed is the essence, to all points in our vast northland. They have an enviable record of safety and efficiency and carry on their work throughout the year, month after month in a dedicated service that is second to none in the Civil Service. The RCMP has a goodly number of staff in Lac du Bonnet. They· police not only our area but the whole of the northland, and the personnel are a credit and an asset to our com munity and the rest of the province.

During the last few years we seem to have a lot of good and interesting things happening to our community. Possibly the most appreciated is the building of six new schools, and the adoption of the policy of bringing our children from all over the rural areas to the schools in buses. This transportation of pupils, along with better facilities, surely must be one of the most worthwhile efforts of our Government. In this year of 1965, our local people relatively have higher incomes and more leisure time. They are demanding greater recreational facilities where they can enjoy this leisure time.

We need parks for them to play in and the roads to get them to the parks. The purchase of Grand Beach from the railway and the renovation of this wonderful natural resource is also one of the accomplishments that future generations will appreciate. The appreciation of our public now is shown by the patronage they are giving to this fine vacationland, and I am certain that the new plans for the first 350 units of a major 1000 unit camp ground, and the extension of the beach will be well received by our people in Manitoba.

I would also like to mention the success we have enjoyed with the development of our Patricia Beach. From wilderness to wonderland is the only way that I can describe this February 23rd, 1965 Page 9

(Mr. Bjornson, cont'd) ..... accomplishment. Here we have a beach that is acknowledged by the family "lunch basket Sunday citizens 11• From its inception, it has never been large enough to accommodate the weekend holidayers, even though it provides better than a mile of beach and the parking I • facilities have been doubled and trebled. This effort speaks for itself in the outdoor enjoyment • available to our people. Located in my constituency are the power plants that have provided our province with low-cost electricity since the early 1900's.

The names of Seven Sisters, Pinawa, Point du Bois, Slave Falls, Great Falls, McArthur Falls, Pine Falls and Powerview bring to mind the initiative, the accomplishments and the dedication of so many of our Manitobans who planned these plants, built them, operated them and provided the power. I pay tribute to these in- · dividuals for a job well done. We have reason to be proud of our City Hydro and of our Manitoba Power Commission.

We now have a circle of pavement through our constituency that will take you from No. 4 at Beausejour north onto No. 12 past Patricia Beach and Grand Beach; onto No. 12 past Fort Alexander Reservation, Pine Falls, and the power plants at Powerview, Great Falls and McArthur Falls; through our lovely village of Lac du Bonnet and past the entrance to the Atomic Energy project at Pinawa; past the entrance to the Whiteshell and the Seven Sisters Power Plant; back onto No. 4 East and on to Beausejour from our imaginary starting point.

This, Madam Speaker, points to the industry of the Minister of Public Works and his entire department. Probably the most exciting thing that has ever happened in our constituency was the locating of the Whites hell Nuclear Research Establishment of the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. - 65 miles northeast of Winnipeg and in the heart of the Lac du Bonnet municipality. The plant is located on the Winnipeg River eight miles south of Lac du Bonnet, and the townsite is some nine miles east of the plant site. The first nuclear reactor is now under construction.

The heart of the reactor, a 16 ton stainless steel tank, arrived recently. An other

section called the radial shield weighing some 62 tons has arrived at the Plant. The purpose of this

section is to absorb radiation. Bundles of uranium oxide fuel will be inserted in the tubes of the steel tank surrounded by heavy water that enable a chain r·eaction to take place. The reactor is scheduled to go into operation late this year. It will be used to test various kinds of heat transfer materials, and different types of reactor fuel in this most complex and interesting work of atomic research. This tremend ous Nuclear Research Establishment will be bringing to our province investments of many millions of dollars of a continuing nature for many years to come .

A visit to the townsite of Pinawa would be very interesting and worthwhile to the visitor. Located as it is in isolation on the shores of a beautiful lake, in a forest area, it was literally carved out of the woods and based on solid rock. The people have all the facilities of a fine beach. In the summer they can fish, swim, run their boats, water-ski and what have you right in their own back yard. In the picturesque setting, some 140 houses have been erected along with a hostel and some apartment buildings.

They have a shopping centre which houses the Hudson Bay Co., a drug store, the bank and the Post Office, and other facilities too numerous to mention. They have a beautiful new hospital that is one of the most modern and well equipped hospitals that I have ever seen. We in our municipality have been making good use of these terrific facilities, and appreciate this addition to our locality. The school is a delight to see with its spacious rooms, large auditorium and all the other facilities necessary for teaching the young people. Next year's plans call for the erection of some SO-odd new homes.

The population. is growing day by day and I estimate that at the present time there are about one thousand people in this lovely, modern, well planned town. Our community appreciates and are conscious of the benefits that have accrued to our area in having this research project located in our municipality. In this rambling Cook's Tour of my constituency, I have attempted to picture for you what my area is contributing in so many ways to the welfare and enjoyment of all our people in Manitoba. In almost all of them our government has participated technically and financially.

These desirable things have cost a lot of money and resulted in an increase in taxation. Our citizens have been asked to contribute in greater amounts to these worthwhile and other projects Page 10 February 23rd, 1965 I I • • I

(Mr. Bjornson cont'

d) to keep Manitoba on par with the other provinces, and on a level with our neighbors across the border. · In 1958, our government recognized the need for expanding our education system to im prove its standards. The results have been revolutionary. Increased numbers of schools and services for all the young people of Manitoba was our goal. I think we have achieved this goal. The government has increased its contributions year after year - and I use as an example - in 1951, the municipalities contributed 77. 7% of the cost of education and the government con tributed 22. 3% .

In 1.962, the municipal share was 59.1% and the provincial share was 40. 9%. In spite of this greater participation in our school cost by government, the burden of the increased costs of our education system have fallen on the property owners throughout the province, and it is to relieve this burden that the government is initiating a rebate system which will be payable directly to the taxpayer. The rebate of 50% of the school cost portion of the individual tax bill, up to the ceili�g of $100 .00 of the school tax, will benefit many of our municipal taxpayers.

Clost to home, Madam Speaker, I would illustrate how this affects my area. In Lac du Bonnet municipality, 95% of the taxpayers will benefit; in the local Government District of Alexander, 86 %; in our portion of Rural Municipality of St. Clements, 95%; and our half of the Rural Municipality of Whitemouth, 85%; the Villages of Lac du Bonnet, 65%; and Power view, 58%; for a total amount in dollars of $98, 000, and these benefits will be reflected throughout our province, municipality by municipality. In the Report of the Manitoba Royal Commission on Local Government Organization and Finance, Mr.

Michener and his colleagues suggested that a retail sales tax could be a means by which we could broaden the tax base and lighten the load placed on real property owners. Our government chose an alternative to this recommendation, and rather than initiate a sales tax, preferred that government would tax only specific items and services.

To compare the general sales tax proposal and the effect it would have on the pocketbooks of our taxpayers with the proposal of taxing only specific goods and services as has been done, is a very difficult thing to get across to some of our citizens, including some of our politicians. I am quick to say that the few remarks that I have to offer may not solve the problem for anyone, particularly those who do not seem to want the answer, but I do want to make some observation on 'this matter. I am satisfied that many of our business men are relieved that the general sales tax idea is out of the picture.

To collect this money, account for the col lections and remit this government money, is a chore that many businesses would not want to undertake voluntarily, On the other hand, to collect the money on the specific it•ems our government is taxing and proposes to tax is relatively simple as the agencies that will collect them have the collection machinery already in their billing systems, and with very few ad justments to their methods can collect and remit to government with little or no difficulty. A general sales tax by definition would fall on many of the items taxed now, and in ad dition on many others.

If I am to be taxed at all, and I don't like taxes any more than anyone else, I would prefer the present tax on gasoline and the increased fee on my car licence than a sales tax on my automobile, on every garage bill, on every quart of oil and every tire I pur chase. I would rather pay the one cent a gallon on the fuel oil I buy than a sales tax on the clothing for myself and family to keep ourselves warm in this cold climate we have.

Now I have no intention of taking every item on each of the commodities that are being taxed now and comparing them with the general sales tax imposition, but I do believe that my health would improve if I abstained from liquor and cigarettes, and it may just be that I can will this on myself when I consider the benefits and the savings.

The other policies mentioned in the Throne Speech for the relief of the municipalities in the tax field, such as the taking over of many of the municipal roads at provincial highways, and assuming the responsibilities and costs of drainage projects, will result in a large saving to our municipalities and the consequent relief to our property taxpayers. Time will reveal, I am certain, that our government's policies are sound and practical and the ultimate result will be that it will achieve its objectives to the benefit of all the people of our grand province.

Madam Speaker, I am certain that all our people in Manitoba are saddened by the tragic event that occurred in the village of Lac du Bonnet last Saturday, and join with our local citi zens in their prayers and condolences to the families that have lost loved ones and those who February 23rd, 1965 Page 11

(Mr. Bjornson Cont•d) ....... have lost their businesses and homes. In conclusion therefore, Madam Speaker, I move that a humble address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor as follows: We Her Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba in Session assembled, humbly thank Your Honour for the gracious speech which Your Honour has been pleased to address to us at the opening of the present Session. Madam Speaker presented the motion. MADAM SPEAKER: The Honourable the Member for Fisher. MR.

EMIL MOELLER (Fisher): Madam Speaker, may I express my sincere thanks to the Premier for the privilege and honour to second the Reply to the Speech from the Throne in the Fourth Session of this Twenty-Seventh Legislature. Madam Speaker, I have had the honour to represent the constituency of Fisher since 1963. Tiie constituency of Fisher, the centre part of the Interlake, is on the average 24 miles wide and 108 miles long. About nine townships are in the municipalities of Rockwood, Wood lands and St. Andrews. Four townships are the Peguis Reserve and the Fisher Indian Reserve.

The balance is a land of different varieties. All people live in this constituency - from Europe, from the British Isles, and our real natives, the Indian. The first settlers in the area where I live just south of the present village of Teulon was Windsor. In 1878 the first school was built in that district. In 1881 another district followed with a new school southeast of Teulon named Dundas which ......... educate our children to 1964.

On the 12th of December 1898, the first train arrived at the site of what we call today Teulon, and with this train a girl arrived from Ireland to marry a farmer named Charles Kasper and her maiden name, Teulon, was put on this new railway station. In 1908 a bigger school was built and consolidation came with Windsor, but today, of the old Windsor district only the stone foundations are left of the old school. The bell from the Windsor school was taken to the new Teulon school and hung in the bell tower, to come down in 1959 to ring no more, but still in the possession of the Teulon School District.

Farming in the area had its start on the eastern side of the ridge, ....... was moved north, north and further north, while the west is still more bush today. I didn•t mention any big towns in our constituency. To mention one, near Teulon is the town of Inwood, not rich on grain land but ....... and milk-producing, and also the lime kiln just north of the town gives employment to many people. Further north we have the village of Fisher Branch.

I can't mention all the little hamlets -- it would be too many -- but Fisher Branch is located in a fer tile area where they have a hospital, a new collegiate was built, and just last year the opening of a new town and country hall. Those things mean progress for a district, but progress can only come when the district has the aid of the province or of the whole of Canada to provide drainage. In the last few years, the Dumoulin drain, the Bottle Creek drain, the Broad Valley drain and many more were im proved to give the farmers more security, to keep their land from flooding.

When I wander further north to the little hamlet of Hodgson just south of the Peguis Indian Reserve, that's the little village on the end of the Winnipeg-Hodgson railway line. How many more years we'll have that rail line, I don't know, but one of these days she will disappear. Then Hodgson has that good road across from Riverton, all the way from one lake to another. But I haven •t spoken of our real Manitobans yet -- our Indians -- the people that live on the reserve.

At the time the people were moved out there by the government, the government didn't see that these people could fish and live from wild life and trapping forever, but the Peguis Reserve is real good farmland. With education and lots of will power from the people, it can be one of the best farming districts in this province. When I talk about the Indians, that takes me back to the Interlake School Division.

In 1959 when the division came into being and Teulon and the Women's Missionary Society saw themselves with two big empty homes where students had been housed for years from far remote areas, thanks to the school board and the Department of Education that have helped us to place Indian students into these homes, today we have 38 of them. I call this integration in action. These children are well behaved and everybody in the Teulon village is proud to have these people to share with the others the high value of our Manitoba education. Page 12 February 23rd, 1965 I I I - I • • I • • •

(Mr. Moeller, Cont •d) . Further north of the Indian reserves we have four lakes. They are all Saints -- St. George, St. Andrews, St. David and St. Patrick� To get to these lakes we have fine roads. Mind you they are still dusty, but they are well improved and going up to these lakes through the forests of spruce and poplar, through the natural beauty of our northern part of the pro- vince, to get to fishing places where a good many fish like to be caught yet. . Madam Speaker, in my few short remarks I have dealt only with a very small portion of our vast province.

The change of many roads from municipal to provincial gives more co ordination in the highway system. Health and welfare is getting more attention every year. In education, increase in our student population, raising of age limits, specialization and new methods, consolidation and transportation have changed. In water control and conservation, big steps have been taken in all parts of our province to control flood and erosion and to con serve water for times of drought. Grand Rapids hydro power will be soon in full operation, More mining and manufacturing will add to the income of our province.

Parks and recrea tional �acilities have put Manitoba on the map. Every step in Manitoba is a forward step, a step towards the future . Madam Speaker, on this note it gives me great pleasure in seconding the motion in reply to the Speech from the Throne. MADAM SPEAKER: Are you ready for the question? .................. Continued next page, February 23rd, 1965 Page 13

MR. MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, in taking

part in this debate, my first words are to express my good wishes to you. We realize that your task is not an easy one, and I can assure you that we on this side will endeavour to give our utmost cooperation to the end that the business of the House will proceed as swiftly as possible. It is also my wish to congratulate the. Hon. Member for Lac du Bonnet and the Hun. Member for Fisher who I believe have acquitted themselves very well in what is obviously a difficult task when they have to say pleasant and proper things about the Government on the far side. I think that they have done well in these circumstances.

As is traditional in this House, I also wish to offer the congratulations of this group to the Hon. Member for Ri ver Heights who has been elected as a member since this House last met in session. It is true that we in this group did not assist him in winning his election but we do want.to take this opportunity of congratulating him on being a Member and being appointed to the Cabinet.

I am sure, Madam Speaker, that we can join with all Canadians in expressing satis faction that progress has been made in the past year towards greater national unity and a better understanding of this great nation and the desires of its people. May the adoption of the new flag be another step towards closer ties in our great Canadian Confederation. Je crois qu'il est bon aussi Madame de signaler et de souligner a cette occasion 1' arrelioration remarquable qui a eu lieu dans 1' annee qui vient de passer dans les relations entre la province de Quebec en particulier et le reste du Canada.

Quand nous regardons les evenements de l'annee passee et lee annees precedentes, quand nous nous souvenons que il n'y a pas tres longtemps qu'il y avait des attaques sur les casernes militaires du gouverne ment' federal, qu'il y avait des bombes dans desboites postales, qu'il y avait une situation tout a fait differente ou on parlait enorlDIIDlent de separatisme. Et quand nous regardons ce qui s'est passe au cours de l'annee ou visiblement il y a eu une meilleure entente entre les groupes canadiens.

Je crois que nous pouvons regarder al'avenir avec be aucoup d'optimisme et que nous pouvons tous nous dire comme Canadiens notre pays va continuer - notre pays va rester uni et nous allons grandir et devenir un toujours plus grand Canada. · Translation : I believe it would also be well, Madam, to point out and to underline on this occasion the remarkable improvement during the past year in the relations between the province of Quebec, in particular, and the rest of Canada.

When we look back on the events of previous years, when we recall that not too long ago there were attacks on the federal goverriment's military establishments, that there were bombs in mail boxes and that it was an entirely different situation where there was enormous talk of separatism, and when we see what happened in this past year where visibly there was better understanding between the various Canadian groups, I believe that we can look to the future with optimism and that we can say as Canadians that our country will go on - our country will remain united and that we will grow and become an ever greater Canada.

During this session, as in the past, we will present resolutions to this House that would do much to make government more effective and more beneficial to the people of this province. Some resolutions have already been filed with the Clerk of the House, others will be introduced at different intervals during the session. Some of these resolutions have been introduced previously but the government has failed to act upon them. Now the Throne Speech indicates vaguely that the government may act upon soire of them.

It is refreshing to learn that at last this government is prepared to listen to worthwhile suggestions from this side of the House. These resolutions, Madam Speaker, are the outcome of careful research and study, These studies have been conducted by members of our Party who sit here in the House, and also by a large number of volunteers -- volunteers who are interested in seeing better govern ment in Manitoba. While we do not have the advantage of full-time staff and research personnel as the government has, we believe that very valuable work has been done by these volunteer workers.

Some resolutions are the adaptation to Manitoba of ideas used in other jurisdictions, others are developed specifically to suit Manitoba problems. As in past years, Agriculture has made a major contribution to the economy of this province. It is the responsibility of governments to see that agriculture does not suffer ex cessively by reason of circumstances largely beyond its control. For this reason we have Page 14 February 23rd, 1965 I I I I I ,I

(Mr. Molgat cant 'd) ..... introduced a resolution on wheat prices that I am, sure will receive the support of members of this House. I believe it is essential that we have a statement from the provincial Minister of Agriculture, who I regret is not in the House, with regard to the apparent serious feed situa tion in the province. The Throne Speech said nothing about this. Feed prices are rising rapidly due to the shortage, and the cattlemen are finding themselves in a very difficult sit uation because of these increased costs and a market for livestock that is far from satisfact ory.

The Minister of Agriculture has been actively promoting increased livestock produc tion . He has indicated the government has a feed bank policy. What are the facts and what action has the government taken to ensure that livestock will not have to be sold at sacrifice prices? This, Madam Speaker, could be a very serious situation if we have a long winter. I understand that the·freight assistance policy on feed at the moment is only in effect in certain areas of the province. On what basis was this established and what are the plans of the government to extend this?

As part of the Liberal Party program of constant study and review of Manitoba pro blems, we held a special two-day study conference at Clear Lake in June of 1964. Study groups had been at work for some months in preparation for this conference. One of the many proposals that was considered at that time was the establishment of a permanent Council for Higher Education to coordinate and plan the development of higher education in Manitoba. Following that June conference, I announced that we would introduce a resolution to establish such a council.

I note that the government intends to take some action, and we will look forward with keen anticipation to their proposals in this very important field and I commend the Minister of Education for accepting this idea. The idea of a Public Protector or "Ombudsman", which originated in the Scandinav ian countries, was discussed by the Liberal Party of Manitoba at study conferences back in 1959 and 1960, in preparation for our leadership Convention of 1961. At that 1961 convention, it was unanimously adopted and we introduced the resolution at the next sitting of the legis lature on March 16, 1962.

During the provincial election campaign of November-December, 1962 it formed part of our election platform. It was· again introduced in 1964. The govern ment has consistently voted against it. I don't know what the vague reference in the Throne Speech now means. As an outcome of studies into government efficiency here in Manitoba, and practices in other jurisdictions, we introduced in 1962 as well, a resolution proposing an Auditor-Gen eral for Manitoba. This too became part of our 1962 election platform and was presented to this House by resolution in 1962 and in 1964.

In 1962 the government voted against the resolution and in 1964 the government prorogued the House and sent us home before it was discussed. Our two resolutions regarding land purchasing policies are the direct result of the lack of any consistent government policy. At the summer session of 1964, my colleague, the Member for Selkirk, introduced on behalf of our party, a resolution combining the two ideas we are now presenting in separate resolutions. Not a single government member rose to speak on the resolution in August of 1964, and again the House was prorogued before the resolution had been dealt with.

The failure of the government to correct its policies in the intervening months, and the growing public complaints, have made it imperative, in the public interest, that a full enquiry be conducted into the past practices and also that an immediate change be made in the policy. We believe the solution is to turn over the res ponsibility for land acquisition and disposal to an independent body, who would act for all government departments, boards and commissions, assuring a uniform policy free from political interference and fair to both buyer and seller. 1964 was one of the hardest years for Manitoba taxpayers.

This government, in one tax bill in August of 1964, loaded onto Manitoba taxpayers another $22 million in taxes. It is obvious, when one looks at the actions of this government, that it has absolutely no idea of how the average Manitoban lives. It apparently neither understands nor cares about the average man. It apparently does not know that more than one third of Manitoba taxpayers February 23rd, 1965 Page 15

(Mr. Molgat cont'd) ..••. earn less than $3, 000 per year. How can we expect people in these circumstances to pay taxes on basic essentials like heat? It is for this reason that we have a resolution on.the Order Paper asking the government to rescind one of the most un fair taxes ever imposed on the people of this province - the tax on heat. The taxpayers of Manitoba have been waiting anxiously for the Speech from the Throne to see if there might be some relief announced for them.

They should have realized that looking for tax relief from this government was a pretty forlorn hope, since the govern ment is one that equates spending with progress. The Premier's idea of building up an impressive record is to spend more than has ever been spent before; he thinks that if he can show the people that he has spent more on government services than ever before, they will believe that he is a more vigorous and active leader than any tha� went before him.

It is this fallacy which is responsible for the highest cost of government in our province's history, the highest taxes, the highest debt and the highest spending. To the protests of those who find themselves burdened with the new and higher taxes, Mr. Roblin smugly and complacently says, well, if you want a high level of govern ment service you have to pay for it in the form of higher taxes. He keeps asking the Opposition what specific services they would cut in order to keep taxes down.

Well, Madam Speaker, if the people of Manitoba had confidence in the government's spending methods, you would not hear the outcry you do against the level of taxes. But the people have lost confi dence in the government because the government has not met the charges of waste, extravagance and inefficiency laid at its door. No one minds paying taxes for valuable services provided the taxes are equitably distributed and not assessed on those not able to pay, or on essentials of daily living like heating fuel and electricity.

But the taxpayers expect the government to respect their pocketbooks -to have an eye to cost when they embark on new projec ts and not to spend money without regard to the resources of the community and the efficient carrying on of operations. The Roblin administration pays lip service to the idea that programs must be tailored to available income. Mr. Roblin, who is also the Provincial Treasurer, has, in fact, opposed a number of very worthwhile schemes on the ground of cost. He says we must have a system of priorities in expenditure.

He throws cold water on the Canada Pension Plan because he says there are other things that need doing in priority to providing the aging with contributory pensions. He is critical of the federal government for failing to assess priorities as between education and pensions and welfare. All taxpayers applaud the idea of priorities. But when they see how Mr. Roblin puts into practice his theory of priorities, they realize the time has passed when they should have confidence in him and his government. When University students come to the government in protest against fee increases, Mr. Roblin tells them to go home.

He has set up an order of priorities, and old people and university students, unfortunately, are low down on the scale of priorities. There are apparently more important things to spend money on than pensions and lower university fees. Well, let us examine the particulars of the order of priority this government has established. While putting pensions and student fee protests nearer the bottom of the list, it has put the Red River Floodway on a do-it-yourself basis at the top. It has put the acquisition of land at inflated prices for the Arts Centre in Winnipeg at the top of the list.

It has given high priority to a multiplication of 4, 6 and 8 room high schools throughout the province, when only 12 room high schools can teach the courses offered. This is the kind of priority Mr. Roblin has established and this is the kind of priority that has resulted in high taxes while worthy projects go unsupported and unheeded. One of the most extraordinary of all of Mr. Roblin's priorities has only come to light in the last year and a half, and it alone is sufficient to justify calls for the Premier's resignation.

While social welfare advocates have been put off with speeches about the need for priorities, do you know what the government has been doing? It has been giving top priority to the acquisition of a goose preserve. Can you feature that? The Canada Pension Plan is too expensive for Canadians, but the acquisition of a goose preserve deserves top priority! Do you know that, in 1964, the same year that $20 million in new taxes was Page 16 February 23rd, 1965 • • I • I

(Mr. Molgat cont'd) .•... imposed on heating fuel, on electricity, on telephone subscribe rs, on automobile drivers, $170, 000 was spent by this government on the acquisition of a goose preserve? But that is not all. We all remember the profits that were allowed to be made in the Arts Centre land purchase which was the subj ect of so much controversy last year. Well, even while the bungling on the Arts Centre was going on, the Department of Mines & Natural Resources and the Department of Agriculture were bungling in a way possibly more incredible than those departments which were involved in the Arts Centre .

I charge that while imposing ever higher taxes on Manitobans, while neglecting to undertake important projects because of lack of funds, this government was at the same time wasting money by mis managemmt and inefficiency. I charge that this government, in the acquisition of property known as the Bain Estate, has been guilty of the grossest mis manage ment ever displayed by any government in this province's history.

This government waste fully and unnecessarily overpaid more than $100, 000 for the land it purcha sed from the Bain Estate -- possibly as much as $142, 500 more, and I call on this government, Madam Speaker and I call on the Minister of Mines & Natural Resource s, the present Minister and the past Minister, and the Minister of Agriculture, to explain to this House how land which was trans ferred from the Bain Estate to other private interests for about $102, 500 in February, 1964, was purchased for this government by these three Ministers within the year for l�245, 00 0. 00 .

I demand the immediate resignation of the three Ministe rs who were involved in these unbelievable purchases - transactions that cost the people of this province between $100, 000 and $ 142, 500 more than they should have. Let me tell you the story of the governme nt's dealings with the Bain Estate pro perties. Now Madam Speaker, in the course of the explanations, names of private citizens and firms who were involved in these transactions will be used, but I want to make it absolutely clear that I am not suggesting any improper actions on their part.

They were involved in busine ss transactions; the government 's responsibility is to take care of the public and the taxpayer. Several years ago, some marshy land in the Grosse Isle area was owned by one, Donald H. Bain, a bachelo r farmer and busin essman. Mr. Bain was very interested in con servation and himself set aside about 800 acres as a game sanctuary. He was anxious that the people of Manitoba should share for all time the conservation facilities afforded by his pro perties and he offered to give, to make a gift of a large tract of land to the government for that purpose.

There was only one thing he asked in return and that was that the sum of $3000 be paid to a neighbouring farme r by the government in settlement of a disputed claim . If the government would pay that farmer $3000 Mr . Bain would give a large tract of land to the government . Now what did this government do in face of that offer ? It did nothing. It procrastinated. It stalled. And eventually Mr. Bain died on August 15, 1962. On January 23, 1963, Mr. Witney, the then Minister of Mines & Natural Resources and his deputy had lunch with Mr. J. H. Bain at Ellett's Restaurant here in Winnipeg. Mr. J. H.

Bain is the nephew of the late Donald H. Bain. The Minister, Mr. Witney, told Mr. J. H. Ba in that the government was interested in acquiring land for a hunting and game reservation. Mr. Bain told the Mini ster who the executors were and referred him to them or to Mr. Edward Pitblado, Q. C. , who was the solicitor for the estate. Now the government had the power then and there (in January, 1963) to file expro priation notices so that the values of the land to be taken would be frozen. There would have been ample time to negotiate at leisure as to what was a fair price to pay.

This is the pro cedure frequently followed by government agencies, and at times followed by this government. Or, the government could have made an immediate offer to purchase. But instead of filing expropriation notices or making an offer, the Minister of Mines & Natural Resources dilly dallied. It would have been a si mple thing to do for him to go across to the Law Courts Building to search the Probate papers . They were there then. He was interested in acq uir ing some 2, 896 acres at Delta and about 900 acres at Grosse Isle.

He would have found that the executors had, in October of 1962, sworn that the Delta property was worth $53, 850 and February 23rd, 1965 Page 17

(Mr. Molgat cont'd) .. ... that the 800 acres at Grosse Isle were part of a larger tract of 2, 771. 43 acres with a total value of $11 5, 000. 00. These sworn values were based on appraisals which the executors had obtained in the fall of 1962. One of these appraisals by N. M. Tilley, Portage la Prairie, showed the Delta property was worth $53 ,8 50 as of August 15 , 1962. Another appraisal from the Canada Colo nization Association , a subsidiary of the Can adian Pacific Railway Company , showed that the 800 acres at Grosse Isle were worth less than $8 , 000 as of August 15 , 1962 .

In January, 1963 , when the Minister was speaking to Mr. Bain's nephew, these sworn values were a matter of public record. Had the government acted promptly, it should have been able to acquire all the property needed at these prices or prices similar to them. But the government did not act. On April !, 1963 , about two months after the Minister's meeting with Mr. Bain , the member for Portage la Prairie, Mr. Johnston, asked in the House during discussion of esti mates, whether the government policy was to purchase properties like the Donald H. Bain Estate, and whether the Minister was watching it.

The Minister replied, "Yes we do, Mr. Chairman, and we have been watching very closely that particular estate that's been men tioned by the Honourable Member, although if we are able to purchase that, we would use it for waterfowl purposes." But again, the Minister did not act.

Instead, as had been done in the case of the Arts Ce ntre, the government decided to delay action and the inevitable result followed: others saw the opportunity for a tidy profit, and by the time the government got around to getting the property they found that the executors had given an option to a limited company called Octave Enterprises Limited. Just who the owners of the shares of Octave Enterprises Limited were or are is not cl ear. The directors were Messrs. Meltzer, Essers and Gold, a legal firm who presumably was acting on someone's behalf.

In any event, by July, 1963, Octave Enterprises Limited had acquired an option to pur chase certain assets of the Donald H. Bain Estate for a total of $350, 350. 00. The option specified amounts for each group of assets. The parcels the government later purchased were the following: Delta (2 , 896 acres) Grosse Isle (800 acres swamp portion)

Part Lot 23 Portage (2 19. 24 acres) Original Appraised Value accepted by National Revenue Dept. $5 3, 850 8, 000 (approx.) 29, 936 Option Value to Octave Enterprises $ 60, 000 10, 000 (approx) 32 , 500 The consideration for all of this property under option was $100. 00 and was open until October 31, 1963 . In this-way, Octave Enterprises Limited, for the sum of $100. 00 acquired a right, or thought they acquired a right, to bargain with the government for the cash needed by them to acquire a vast quantity of property without putting up much money themselves.

It appears that Octave Enterprises did not intend to exercise the option unless the government bought some of the land. Now, you would think that having failed to obtain part of the property by gift as originally proposed by Mr. Bain, having missed the chance to get the property at the sworn values in January, 1963 , when the Minister was speaking about having failed to act in April, 1963 , when he was questioned in the House, the government would act promptly when it learned of the option, to file expropriation notices again because the option itself was evidence of the value of the land. But no.

Once more the government failed to act, until September, 1963 , when it agreed by Order-in -Council to buy certain of the land for $17 0, 000. 00. For the Delta property, which Octave had optioned for $60,0 00 in July, the Government agreed to pay $125, 000 in September. As to the Grosse Isle property which Octave had op tioned for $125 ,0 00 for all of the 2, 77 1.43 acres, the government agreed to pay $45,0 00 for 800 acres which had been appraised at less than $8, 000. 00.

So having failed time after time to take action, the government now agreed, in September, 1963 , to pay $1 70, 000 for proper ties which had been optioned for about $70, 000 a few weeks before. But even more extraordinary things were to follow. The government agreed in Septem ber, 1963 , to buy from Octave, but Octave could not give title to the government. Octave Page 18 February 23rd, 1965 I I I

(Mr. Molgat cont'd) .. .. . hastened to exercise its option so that it could get its money from the government. It was then discovered that the executors had no power of sale under the will of Donald H. Bain and it was, therefore, thought desirable to have the solicitors, Pitblado, Hoskin & Co. , apply to Court to have the sale from the Bain Estate to Octave Enterprises approved. Mter the sad story of mismanagement to date, the government still had another chance to get out of this bad bargain. The government had retained as its own solicitor in this pur chase, one of the partners of the Pitblado, Hoskins firm.

It is well known that one partner has access to the other's file. So the government's solicitor must have known in November of 1963 , that the government had agreed to pay $170, 000 for land which had been appraised at less than $62 ,0 00, and optioned for about $70, 000 a short time before. You would think that under these circumstances, when Octave Enterprises could not fulfill its bargain, that the government would have filed expropriation papers at once , but strange to say, at the request of Octave Enterprises, the government agreed to extend the deadline beyond the option date to December 15 , 1963 .

The government stipulated, however, that if title were not given by that time, the government would be free to withdraw. On December 15 , 1963 , titles were not available - the government did not withdraw. It would seem that the government was determined to pay $100, 000 more for the property than it needed to. On March 6, 1964, Octave Enterprises Limited swore that the value of the Delta property was $10 0, 000, that is, $40, 000 more than was paid for it a short time earlier.

Three days later, a transfer was signed from Octave Enterprises Limited to Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Manitoba for a consideration of $125, 000.00. Seventeen days later, a direc tor of the Department of Mines & Natural Resources swore that the value was $125 ,0 00. 00. Now why did the government pay $125, 000 to Octave for land which it declared was valued 17 days earlier as $100, 000, and for which Octave Enterprises had paid $60, 000. 00? But that is not all. So far, we have been dealing with the purchase of property by the Department of Mines & Natural Resources.

It is true there was a change of Ministers in this department in December, 1963 , but the new Minister persisted in the same policies regarding this purchase. Now, a third Minister enters the picture, the Minister of Agriculture. He proceeds to purchase another piece of property included in the option from the Bain Estate to Octave Enterprises Limited. This property comprises 219. 24 acres as part of Lot 23 Portage la Prairie. It was valued by the Estate appraisers as of August 15, 1962 , at $29, 936.00. The Department of National Revenue accepted a value of $29, 936. 00.

Octave Enterprises Limited, in a sale approved by the Court, paid $32 ,5 00 for it. Octave Enterprises Limited declared on March 6, 1964, that its value was $32 ,5 00. 00. Yet on October 14 , 1964, in a transfer registered from Octave Enterprises Limited to Her Majesty the Queen in the Right of Manitoba for $75, 000, Mr. John McLean on behalf of the government swears its value at $75 , 000.00. Why? Have farm land values in Manitoba doubled in 8 months? In what way is the government carrying out its stewardship of the people's money?

Have you ever heard of a case that called more loudly for explanations or resignations? I call on the Ministers to explain to this House how land for which Octave Enterprises Limited paid less than $110, 000 in February, 1964, was purchased in the same year by this government for $245 , 000. 00? Why was the power of expropriation not used in the case of the Bain Estate when it is used against the landowners at Pine Ridge? How does the government justify a policy of negotiating with the rich and influential and expropriating from the poor and uninfluential?

Did the government not learn through the Arts Centre affair that negotiating over prolonged periods is an open invitation to speculators to come in and buy up land needed for public purposes and then to inflate the prices to the government so that the government will provide large profits for them?

I charge the government with gross mismanagement, inefficiency and ineffectiveness, and I further charge the government with deliberately misleading this House when in reply to an Order for Return from the Member for Portage la Prairie, dated February 25, 1964, the Minister of Mines & Natural Resources stated, and I quote from the Order for Return: "The Province of Manitoba has paid no money for the Bain Hunting Lodge property at Delta, nor has it purchased any other property formerly owned by D. H. Bain.

" Can you imagine a re turn like that at the very time when the government was in the process of paying to Octave Enterprises Limited double the sworn value of the land. On what kind of a technicality was February 23rd, 1965 Page 19

(Mr. Molgat cont'd) ...... the government relying to answer an Opposition question in that way? In the Bain property transaction, on a total purchase of $245, 000, the government appar ently deliberately paid $100, 000 to $142, 500 more than was necessary. In the Arts Centre purchase, they apparently overpaid $1 37, 500. 00. How much more is going on? The Financial Post of August 15 , 1964 states that the government of Manitoba has purchased nearly 90 mill ion dollars worth of land since 1960.

If the Bain Estate transactions and the Arts Ce ntre purchases are an example of how this government operates, how many millions of dollars have been over paid in other property transactions? What answer can the government give to automobile users who are paying an extra three cents a gallon for gas? What can you say about the heat ing tax - so harsh in its application for low income users - when the government goes about throwing away $100 ,0 00 of the taxpayers' money on one purchase? I repeat what I said earl ier in this speech. Taxpayers are prepared to pay reasonable rates of taxes for needed services.

But the taxpayers of Manitoba are not prepared to pay five cents on the dollar for an electricity tax, five cents on the dollar for a telephone tax and five cents on the dollar for heat to a government which puts a goose preserve as number one on it.s priority list, a government which is wasteful and extravagant, mismanaged and unbusinesslike. Madam Speaker, this province needs an Independent Land Court. This government has shown itself to be completely incapable of handling the purchase of land and the people's money. Manitoba needs a complete enquiry into all past land purchases by this government.

Manitoba needs an Auditor-General. Manitoba needs a new government, most of all. I therefore beg to move, Madam Speaker, that the motion be amended by adding thereto the following words: "that this government has lost the confidence of the people of Manitoba by reason of the gross mismanagement of land purchases and its irresponsibility in fiscal matters, resulting in an ever-growing tax load on Manitobans," and my seconder is the mem ber for Lakeside. Madam Speaker presented the motion. MR. PAULLEY: Madam Speaker, !b eg to move , seconded by the Honourable Member for Inkster, that the debate be adjourned.

Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote deClared the motion carried. MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, !b eg to move, seconded by the Honourable Minister of Industry and Commerce, that the House do now adjourn. Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried and the House adjourned until 2: 30 Wednesday afternoon. Page 20 February 23rd, 1965 \� I • I I

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	27-4-2
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	27th 4th hansardpdf 2.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	be9f58c740a03ffb4567e8ee9bd904179c4358cd

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