Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 4 December 2012 (47th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLVII No. 63)
2012-12-04
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
December 4, 2012
HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLVII No. 63
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Today, before we start proceedings, I want to welcome some special guests to
our gallery. We have forty-seven members from the Pouch Cove-Flatrock Seniors'
Group. They are accompanied by their recreation director, Mathew Cooper, and
their bus driver, Johnny Evans. They come from the District of Cape St. Francis.
Welcome to our galleries.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Also in our galleries today we are joined by Linda Ross and
Gillian Spurrell of the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women;
Paula Sheppard of the Newfoundland and Labrador Organization of Women
Entrepreneurs; Karen McCarthy of Cape Consulting; and Andrea Marshall of Aurora
Energy
Welcome to our galleries.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Today we have members' statements from the Member for the
District of Bonavista North
MS MICHAEL: A point of order, Mr Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party, rising on a point of order.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, right now in this House we have probably one of
the most important issues that we are dealing with in the history of this
Province, and that is the issue of the Muskrat Falls Project.
Yesterday the Minister of Natural Resources said during Question Period that
the federal loan guarantee document dealing with Muskrat Falls would be released
today, building up the expectation that we would see it in time for discussion
in the House today.
We learned at 12:45 p.m. that the members of the Opposition were being
invited to a briefing at 2:30 this afternoon, when this House is in session. A
briefing that would be interfering with the order of this House by expecting us
to attend a briefing that could have been done in consultation with us, and I am
shocked that the Minister of Natural Resources would arrange a briefing that
would interfere with our being here in the House. So, on this point of order I
rise, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader, to the point of order.
MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, I certainly recognize the concerns raised by the
member opposite, but I do not believe there is any point of order. I think it is
more a point that she may want to talk to the minister outside of the procedural
wrangling of this House. I see no point of order in what she has raised.
MR. SPEAKER: Any further comments to the point of order?
I do acknowledge the member's comment and her concern being expressed.
Whether or not it is a point of order is the real question, and I would rule
that it is not. I would suggest, though, the issue at hand is something the
member may want to discuss with the minister involved, but it does not impact
the proceedings of the House today.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Members' statements.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Bonavista North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. CROSS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is with great pleasure that I rise in this hon. House today to speak of a
monumental occasion in the life of the school community of Riverwood Academy in
Gander Bay North.
Last year, we reported a project that would combine the efforts of the
residents of two neighbouring districts. In an effort to raise funds for an
outdoor recreational space for their school and community, a Playground
Committee was struck named Funds for Fun of a group of parents. Under the
watchful eye of Principal Tyrone Power and Chair Angela Leyte, they made
application to the Let Them Be Kids Foundation and were successful in receiving
sponsorship.
In five short months the group raised nearly $100,000 locally, which grew to
exceed $150,000 with the foundation's commitment to equipment costs. Over 400
volunteers converged on the school grounds on September 29 to proceed with Build
Day two very proud volunteers were your Members for Lewisporte and Bonavista
North.
I know all members join me in recognizing this monumental achievement. The
project has realized a Regular Playground, a Tiny Tots area, an outdoor Adult
Fitness Area and a Memory Garden. It gives new meaning to a playground fit for
everyone.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: We will now have members' statements for the District of St
John's West; to be followed by the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis;
the Member for the District of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair; and the Member for
the District of Humber Valley.
The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. CRUMMELL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to acknowledge an event I attended in my district yesterday at
the Coalition of Persons with Disabilities Newfoundland and Labrador office.
As we are all aware, Mr. Speaker, yesterday was International Day of Persons
with Disabilities and I had the pleasure of attending a presentation held by the
Canadian Hard of Hearing Association, in partnership with the Coalition of
Persons with Disabilities, in recognition of this special day.
The event included a special international guest speaker named Francis Smith,
who shared his personal story of overcoming adversity. Mr. Smith was born with a
rare craniofacial disorder and lacked both ears. He spoke of how he triumphed
through numerous reconstructive surgeries, hearing loss, extensive speech
therapy, as well as bullying and discrimination, to become an accomplished
musician.
I understand Mr. Smith will be making his presentation again later today, and
if anyone has the opportunity to attend they should do so. To say that it is
motivating and inspirational is an understatement.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in commending Mr. Smith as
well as those who organized this event to celebrate International Day of Persons
with Disabilities.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate
the Pouch Cove Lions Club on their thirtieth Anniversary Charter Night.
Mr. Speaker, my very good friend and former colleague Harry Harding was the
guest speaker. What an inspirational speech he gave.
Mr. Speaker, over the past thirty years the Pouch Cove Lions Club has raised
funds in many ways; bake sales, Christmas raffles, flea markets, a booth at the
Regatta, as well as bingos. They have this year alone donated $30,000 and gave
5,480 volunteer hours of service.
Mr. Speaker, since 1982 the Pouch Cove Lions Club has touched lives with so
many donations and services to hospitals, seniors, youth and numerous others in
our area.
Mr. Speaker, there are two members who have been there since day one, Mr. Ken
Hudson and Mr. Herb Hudson. Herb was named Lion of the year this year.
I ask all hon. members to join with me in congratulating the Pouch Cove Lions
Club for their service and dedication to their community and the surrounding
area.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in the House to recognize and congratulate seventeen well-deserving
recipients from Cartwright L'Anse au Clair district who have been presented
with the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal. Each of these individuals has
earned this recognition through volunteer contributions in their community,
their region and the Province.
Mr. Speaker, it was a privilege to attend ceremonies in Port Hope Simpson and
L'Anse au Loup where many recipients were honoured. I congratulate and
acknowledge Calvin Poole of St. Lewis, Benjamin Powell of Charlottetown, Judy
Pardy of Cartwright, Margaret Burden of Port Hope Simpson, Harrison Campbell of
Pinsent's Arm, Claude Rumbolt of Mary's Harbour, Robert Hancock and Reginald
Hancock of Forteau, Wilfred Letto of L'Anse au Clair, Sylvia Buckle of Pinware,
Elfrieda Normore and Emanuel Barney of L'Anse au Loup, Marie Marshall and Agnes
Pike of West St. Modeste, Stanley Pike Sr. of Red Bay, and Walter Bolger of
Capstan Island on being recognized for their hard work and dedication.
I also had the pleasure of presenting the Queen's Diamond Jubilee to Mr.
Frank Flynn of Forteau, at the Labrador Fishermen's Union Shrimp Company
biannual convention last week in recognition of his thirty-four years of service
as a board member of that company.
I would also like to pay tribute to each of these constituents who are so
well deserving of this recognition and to thank them for their commitment and
contribution to the people of my district and the people of Labrador.
I ask my colleagues in the House of Assembly today to join me in extending
our congratulations to these seventeen individuals from the District of
Cartwright L'Anse au Clair on receiving the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee
Medal.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the Howley United Church on
their eighty-fifth anniversary. I recently had the opportunity to attend the
celebratory service to commemorate this significant milestone.
Mr. Speaker, the United Church was built in 1927, and was the first church to
be erected in the community. This building has withstood the test of time and
has become a true gathering place for the community.
Given the small population, the United Church alternates services throughout
the year with the Anglican congregation in the community, and on several
occasions, all religions and denominations in Howley have come together to share
special services that are always well attended.
At this time, I would also like to recognize the contributions of Marjorie
Martin. For fifty-five years she has served as the organist of the Howley United
Church. Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the current and the past clergy of the
United Church and its loyal congregation on their eighty-fifth anniversary
celebrations and the tremendous work that they do.
I ask all members in this House to join me in honour of their special
anniversary.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Child, Youth and Family Services,
and the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to share with you all an
exciting and unique event coming up for women in our Province. Today, our hon.
Premier announced Ovations: Applauding Accomplishments of Women in Our
Communities to be held on January 17, 2013.
This event is an initiative of the Women's Policy Office, the Provincial
Advisory Council on the Status of Women, the Newfoundland and Labrador
Organization of Women Entrepreneurs and representatives from business and
community.
Ovations will bring together women of all backgrounds to celebrate
achievements, recognize the triumphs of those who came before us, and focus on
the future.
The event will begin with an afternoon forum, featuring keynote speaker Zoe
Yujnovich, President and CEO of the Iron Ore Company of Canada, and a panel of
Newfoundland and Labrador women who will share their insights and experiences.
The panellists will be: Anne Whelan of BrenKir Industrial; Nora Duke of Fortis;
Hilda Broomfield-Letemplier of Pressure Pipe Steel Fabrication; Maisie Clark,
Mayor of Campbellton; Susan Knight, Chancellor of Memorial University; Jackie
Thompson of Status of Women Central; and Jillian Peddle, the 2012 Canadian Red
Cross Young Humanitarian for Newfoundland and Labrador.
The highlight of the event is sure to be the evening celebration hosted by
actress Krystin Pellerin from the television series Republic of Doyle . It
will include a keynote address from the Premier as well as a series of
entertaining and inspiring performances.
Mr. Speaker, for generations, women in Newfoundland and Labrador have played
an instrumental role in shaping the history, culture, and economy of the
Province. Ovations are a great opportunity to applaud the remarkable
accomplishments of women who make a difference each and every day at home, at
work, and in our communities.
Finally, I would like to thank the Ovations organizing committee, many of
whom are here today, for all of their hard work to date, including chair Linda
Ross, President and CEO of the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of
Women.
I encourage you all to visit OvationsNL.ca for more information. Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement. Mr.
Speaker, bringing women together to share in their struggles and their successes
are positive opportunities for reflection and also for moving forward. We have
many women in this Province who set tremendous examples and continue to raise
the bar for all who come behind, enabling them to move even further forward.
Mr. Speaker, just look around our own House of Assembly where we have a
female who is a Premier of our Province for the first time in our history.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: We have a Leader of the Third Party, who is a woman in this
Province, Mr. Speaker, and doing a remarkable job in advocating for people. For
the first time, we have a female Clerk of the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: We do not have to look too far, Mr. Speaker, to see great
examples of what women are doing today, not just in political society but in all
aspects of our society. I look at remarkable women throughout this Province and
things they have accomplished. I look in my own area of Labrador where I see
people like Sarah Leo, who is now leading the Nunatsiavut Government; people
like Karen Oldford, who leads one of the most industrial towns in this Province,
in Labrador City; and people like Agnes Pike who, for fifty years, has been a
municipal leader, an advocate for minorities, and served on boards both
nationally and internationally.
Mr. Speaker, despite the fact that not too long ago women's place was in the
home, we could not vote, and we were not entitled to marital property despite
our greatest efforts, women today have entered the public realm with force,
establishing themselves as leaders on all fronts, both locally and globally.
I want to congratulate and recognize all of those women who will participate
in the panel, and all of those women out there in our Province, from CEOs to
paralympians women, Mr. Speaker, from political backgrounds, to advocacy. They
are all making a valuable contribution.
Let us not all forget the women who raise families, who work double days, who
make tremendous strides in their own lives and in others', because their
contributions too are remarkable in our Province and in society.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.
MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, thank the minister for an advanced copy of her statement. We can
never celebrate too much the accomplishments of women in this Province, and I
congratulate the organizing committee.
As we all know, rights and advancements are not given but hard won, and I
applaud the feminist social activists who have worked so hard to bring us to
this point. As more and more women move into leadership positions, it is our
hope that they continue to bring their experience, wisdom, and compassion, and
continue to work for the advancement of women in all sectors of our society.
Women still disproportionately live in poverty, particularly single mothers
and seniors, and the lack of a publicly funded and administered child care
program creates a huge barrier to women's full participation in the workforce. I
invite everyone to look around this House where important decisions are made and
see that women still occupy a mere 17 per cent of the seats. This must change if
women are to attain full equality.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Service NL.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today in this hon. House
to recognize National Safe Driving Week, which officially began this past
Saturday, December 1.
National Safe Driving Week provides a week-long opportunity to raise
awareness of potential road hazards and cultivate safer, more defensive driving
habits for all Canadians. We are gradually improving our road safety statistics
and through our continued effort we can save even more lives in this Province
and across the country.
Mr. Speaker, Service NL is constantly reviewing the Highway Traffic Act for
opportunities to enhance road safety for everyone who uses our roads. This is
done through improving and modernizing the legislation as well as educating
drivers. We strive to ensure that our law enforcement officers have access to
the best tools available to support the public in safe driving: to work, to
school, or even to the cabin for the weekend.
Today, I am pleased to share some more positive news. The number of deaths on
Canadian roadways is declining with an average of one less death per day
recorded in 2012. This is a good start, but we must continue to put forth our
best efforts to increase awareness of driving hazards and, in particular, the
dangers of impaired driving due to drugs and alcohol.
Mr. Speaker, it is through a concerted effort that we are seeing these
results. Through increased enforcement, the introduction of new highway safety
policies, the building of safer vehicles, and an increase in road safety
awareness, jurisdictions across the country are changing driver behaviours
behind the wheel.
As the busy holiday season approaches, I urge all Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians to take care as we venture out on the roadways, especially during
snowy conditions. Please take extra time to avoid rushing your drive to work,
beware of collision hazards, and never drive when fatigued or under the
influence of alcohol or drugs. The holiday season provides the perfect time to
get together with those we love most. It also serves as a reminder of how much
we have to lose if we are careless behind the wheel.
Mr. Speaker, National Safe Driving Week is from December 1 to 7, and it is a
great opportunity for us to further improve road safety results. As we move
forward into 2013, I urge all hon. members to join me in promoting road safety
awareness in our Province, and to encourage all their constituents to slow down,
buckle up, and watch the road ahead.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Torngat Mountains.
MR. EDMUNDS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for advance notice of his statement. It is good to hear
that road accidents are down across the country, Mr. Speaker.
I think that this is an ideal time for Safe Driving Week for two big
important reasons. First, this is our first experience again this year with snow
conditions. Safe Driving Week would make us better aware of road conditions, and
we experienced that in the capital city last week.
Secondly, Mr. Speaker, we are heading into the Christmas season and we are
hopeful that there will be fewer accidents around Christmas. We all do know
people who have lost loved ones at this time of the year due to road accidents.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is a good time to mention that the government has a
commitment, and twenty-four hour snow clearing is very much needed in some areas
of our Province. In areas like the Port aux Basques region, Mr. Speaker, and the
Stephenville
section of the Trans-Canada Highway where again today the Jaws of
Life had to be put into action.
I think every week should be Safe Driving Week. I think it should also be
extended to all-terrain vehicles and snowmobiles. Just today again, Mr. Speaker,
we have seen another fatality on the Port au Port Peninsula. It is not good when
we hear of these accidents and these fatalities, Mr. Speaker.
I commend the minister on his statement and certainly look forward to a lot
less driving accidents on our roads.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would also like to thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement
today. I would also like to say a thank you to those people who have been using
the tools necessary to get impaired drivers and traffic offenders off our roads
through the use of the 911 system. Hopefully that will continue with the
expansion of 911 throughout the Province.
Mr. Speaker, if someone is going to drink and drive they should know the
implications of that by now, surely. Taxis are a lot cheaper than the costs that
can occur due to drunk driving. We have a veritable industry out there willing
to help people home from partying.
Thank you as well to the workers on our highways who are taking that time to
remove impaired drivers from our roads. That itself can be a dangerous job at
times. Hopefully government will soon be acting on move-over laws to ensure
better protection for you in the execution of your duties. We all wish everybody
this season and every day a safe drive.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. the Member for St. John's South have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yesterday the Minister of Natural Resources told the media that the Premier
was going to walk away from the Muskrat Falls federal loan guarantee if it was
contingent on the Maritime Link. The Premier did not walk away and instead
signed a term sheet with Stephen Harper that is completely contingent on Emera's
involvement.
I ask the Premier: Why did you cave in and allow Emera to be in the driver's
seat?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, on Friday in this Province we saw the culmination of two years
of hard work that brought home $1 billion to the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Particularly to ratepayers, Mr. Speaker. There was no
caving in. From the beginning, this government has been vigilant in protecting
the interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker. We did
not falter before and we certainly did not falter last week.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I remind the Premier that we do not have the $1 billion value yet, and it
will be contingent on Emera there and that is quite obvious. The Minister of
Natural Resources has also said the Premier was firm that the loan guarantee
should be available to Nalcor within the next few weeks. The Premier was not
firm, because she signed a deal that will not see the federal loan guarantee
kick in until at least September 2013.
I ask the Premier: How can you claim you stood firm when it was obvious that
the two things that you wanted in the deal are just not there? What boondoggle
are you backing this Province into?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, after two years as well it gets very tiresome in this House to
have misinformation put forward by the Opposition Parties as fact. It is
incumbent on them to try to understand, at the very least, what it is they are
talking about.
Mr. Speaker, the federal loan guarantee works for Newfoundland and Labrador,
it works for Nova Scotia, and it works for all of Canada, which is why we have
the backing of the federal government.
The loan guarantee will be available to Newfoundland and Labrador when it
needs it, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: I remind the Premier: We need it right away. You wanted it from
the beginning and you asked for it from the beginning, and you did not get it.
Mr. Speaker, because of the failures of this Premier the people of the
Province are forced to pony up $2 billion for the Muskrat Falls Project that is
not covered by this loan guarantee. This is money that could be spent on other
infrastructure projects.
I ask the Premier: Will you now have to borrow for other infrastructure
projects, like the Corner Brook hospital, and at what rate?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the only thing that has changed in the last week is that we have
a binding agreement between ourselves, the federal government, and Nova Scotia
that will bring a value of over $1 billion to the people in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Signed, sealed, and delivered, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, it was always anticipated that we would
borrow a significant amount of money to build Muskrat Falls. It has always been
anticipated that we would make an equity investment, Mr. Speaker. Before we
start spending inordinate amounts of money, we will negotiate our interest rate
with the banks.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: I remind the Premier, again, that from all reports, you spent
almost $300 million already. Yesterday it was very clear in this House and it
was very clear on the weekend that Nalcor has already said that we would use the
cash reserves of the $2 billion.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Natural Resources said yesterday that government
cannot sanction this deal without a sanctioning decision by Emera on the
Maritime Link. The minister further said that Emera will be sanctioning soon.
I ask the Premier: How can the minister talk sanction when Emera's Maritime
Link project is still under regulatory review by the PUB and will possibly
conclude not until 2014?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, there is a significant difference between a regulatory review of
rates and sanction, and you need to understand that. Every scenario has been
anticipated in the negotiation of the federal loan guarantee, and remedies have
been arrived at and agreed to by all parties for those different scenarios, Mr.
Speaker.
Newfoundland and Labrador will go to banks upon sanction, they will negotiate
their interest rate, Mr. Speaker, and that will be available to them when they
need to draw those funds down.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier to be very clear: Has Emera and
the Nova Scotia government committed to this Province that they will sanction
this deal without regulatory review and regardless that we can count on Emera to
participate in this deal, regardless of the outcome of the PUB in Nova Scotia?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, when Newfoundland and Labrador Nalcor specifically, with the
approval of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador sanctions this
project, the loan guarantee will be available to the people of the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Once again, I ask the Premier: Will you sanction this deal
without knowing Emera has sanctioned the deal in Nova Scotia?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, every action we have taken in the preparation of this project
has been in the best interest of the people of the Province. The fundamental
question was: Do we need the power, and if we need the power, what is the
least-cost alternative? The answer to both of those questions, not only by
Nalcor and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, but a notable list of
experts in Canada and around the world who have said yes.
Mr. Speaker, we have taken every measure to minimize risk. Mr. Speaker, we
taken every measure to find support for the project, particularly financial
support from the federal government. We have it, Mr. Speaker. We are protecting
the interests of the people of this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, it was not clear yesterday, it is not clear today.
The question is very simple.
I ask the Premier: Will you sanction this deal without knowing if Emera has
sanctioned the deal in Nova Scotia?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, a sanction decision will be made before the end of this year.
The term sheet will be available to the people of the Province this afternoon,
Mr. Speaker. As more information becomes available, especially when we make this
sanction decision, everybody and the Opposition parties in spite of themselves
will have to acknowledge that the loan guarantee is available to the people of
the Province when it is required, Mr. Speaker, and that Muskrat Falls is the
best thing to happen in Newfoundland and Labrador in a very long time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, maybe three times lucky. The answer is very clear:
yes or no.
Will you sanction this deal without the approval of the regulatory review and
without Emera sanctioning the deal in Nova Scotia? Will you go ahead and
sanction it without that commitment from Nova Scotia?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition really needs to disabuse himself of
the notion that sanction is dependent on a regulatory review of rates, which we
know is not going to take place until the spring. Mr. Speaker, I have already
said that a sanction decision in this Province is imminent, it will be made
before the end of the year, and that the loan guarantee will be available to the
people of this Province when it is required by Nalcor, serving all of the
interests and all of the fiscal arrangements that have been made public intact.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, I can remind the Premier right now, I am very clear on what Emera has
to go through in Nova Scotia. It is not just about rates. It is about the cost
of the Maritime Link as well.
Mr. Speaker, an Order in Council from the Province of Nova Scotia dated
October 4, 2012 makes it absolutely clear that the Maritime Link is contingent
on regulatory approval. Sections 4 and 5 of the Maritime Link Cost Recovery
Process Regulations specifically state that the regulatory approval is required
by Emera to recover the cost.
I ask the minister, or the Premier: How can you say that Emera does not need
regulatory approval for the Maritime Link when they clearly do?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I indicated yesterday, and as will be outlined in the federal loan
guarantee, Mr. Speaker, what we will see is that the definition of sanction is
simply that Emera and Nalcor, the proponents, have to make a determination of
whether or not to proceed with the project. Sanction is not related to
regulatory approval.
For the Leader of the Opposition, I would also point out that the word must
is used in the Nova Scotia regulations or legislation, so that they must approve
if it is the lowest-cost project. I think there are three options that they look
at, being Quebec power, wind, and the Maritime Link.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, government through Nalcor has a 4.9 per cent
equity stake in the Hebron Project, which means you are responsible for 4.9 per
cent of the capital costs.
I ask the Premier: How much money have we put into this project to date?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am not certain off the top of my head how much money we have put in. The
4.9 per cent equity stake is certainly one that will reap large rewards for this
Province, Mr. Speaker.
Hebron is a great project, things are moving as we are hoping they will move,
and we are all hoping that there will be first oil in 2017. However, I can find
out that number for the member opposite and probably even have it to him before
Question Period finishes.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the mayor of St. John's is continuing his efforts as are many
others in this Province to have the Maritime Rescue Sub-Centre reopened after
the Quebec centre was given a reprieve of one year.
I ask the Premier: Why has your government abandoned the efforts to have this
sub-centre reopened in St. John's?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, this government is always advocating for
advancements in regard to search and rescue in this Province. We have continual
dialogue with our federal counterparts, being JRCC in Halifax or wherever it is.
Search and rescue is a priority of this Province and the safety of our
citizens a priority of this Province. We will continue to advocate for better
services in Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The CBC report on marine medical calls being routed to Rome is distressing
and shows a total lack of respect for those who make their living from the sea.
I ask the Premier today: What assurances do you have since the closure of the
Maritime Rescue Sub-Centre that the safety of the fisher people of this Province
is secure?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and as a matter of fact, the question
actually highlights the fast action of this government and our interaction with
the federal counterparts in regard to the rerouting of calls to Rome. As a
matter of fact, that happened sometime last spring, I remember, and I was up in
this House and addressed the issue. That issue was reversed within twenty-four
hours; a long-term contract was put in place with PRAXES out of Halifax to
receive the calls, and now Canadian doctors take all those calls. That is some
of the fast action.
The other thing that I might want to say as well is that the Minister of
Fisheries is currently in Ottawa meeting with his counterpart, and one of the
subject matters that he will talk about today is marine search and rescue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, we are currently working on behalf of an
individual who has been waiting months to have his case heard by the workers'
compensation review board. Meanwhile, your own legislation states that these
reviews are supposed to be done within sixty days.
I ask the minister: Why is the review board not meeting its legislative
requirements?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Service Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The review board just finished its consultations, we are in the process now
of appointing more people to the board, and we will get into that in very fast
order, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: I would say to the minister that the previous minister
already appointed new people, and yet the number of decisions continues to go
down. Last year you added new commissioners, you added new staff to the board,
but it still takes up to eight months to get a case heard. The board only made
179 decisions last year, the lowest number since 2006.
So, I ask the minister: With added staff, why are we still seeing a drop in
the number of decisions made?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Service Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, cases are becoming more and more complicated every day and we are in
no rush to make fast decisions. We do have the extra staff in place, we are
looking at making revisions to the Commission, and as I said, we are taking it
case by case and doing it right, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of IBRD. Minister, we know your department
controls hundreds of millions of dollars through the Immigrant Investor Fund,
funds which were to be used for economic development initiatives. You also said
last week you have more than a $3 million surplus from investments to date.
So, I ask: is government prepared to commit a portion of that surplus to
Regional Economic Development Boards in rural areas of this Province so those
boards can continue to exist and do the valuable work that they do on behalf of
rural communities in this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have a suite of programs; we work with rural Newfoundland and
Labrador, whether it is rural broadband or RSDF a range of programs,
significant investments in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
We made a call some time ago; the federal government stepped in and said they
were not going to do core funding. We said right away we would not be able to
cover that off. We have been engaged with the REDBs and the volunteers. Just
last week we had a conference call with the Corner Brook region and their
volunteers, they have moved on.
We are looking at now how we cover off any gaps or any shortfalls, and
capacity on the ground. I was in St. Anthony. I worked with and talked to people
up there, volunteers as well. We are moving ahead. We have great capacity on the
ground but we are willing to work with municipalities, Chambers of Commerce to
make sure any shortfall is picked up, and continue the good work we are doing in
rural areas.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader, for a quick question.
MS JONES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Many of these boards are doing great work in rural communities. There are
economic development funds in the minister's office that are not being spent and
not being committed. Show your commitment to rural communities, Mr. Speaker, and
allocate this funding so these boards can continue to do their valuable work.
Minister, will you support them or not?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: Mr. Speaker, this government came in, in 2003, with a
couple of million dollars in terms of economic development. We are supporting.
So thank you for recognizing. We are supporting. We are doing work we need to do
in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUTCHINGS: In all regions, $7.1 million in the Workplace Skills
Enhancement Program to up skill, in Newfoundland and Labrador, employers and
their employees; $42 million in RSDF that has leveraged another $200 million, 80
per cent of that is spent in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
We are working with rural Newfoundland and Labrador and our volunteers. We
will continue to do it and we will continue to have success.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the media received a briefing on the Muskrat Falls loan
guarantee term sheet at 1:00 p.m. today. The one for members of the Opposition
is not being offered until 2:30 p.m. when the House is in session. Such conduct
is outrageous. This government obviously did not want the Opposition to come in
here today prepared for Question Period.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Why is she continuing to play games with the
Opposition around the discussion of the Muskrat Falls Project?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The commitment I made yesterday was that we would release the loan guarantee
today, Mr. Speaker. I indicated at that point that we had to consult with the
Nova Scotia.
We did not receive the final document that we needed, Mr. Speaker, from Nova
Scotia until 11:45 today. We then offered briefings to the media and the
Opposition. To the credit of Liberal Opposition Leader, he is not complaining
about that. He asked his questions. We offered the Opposition a briefing at
2:30. Interestingly enough, Mr. Speaker, that briefing is before we even have
the opportunity to brief our own members on the federal loan guarantee.
Mr. Speaker, we are doing what we can to accommodate the Opposition, but,
unfortunately, with the Third Party it seems we also have to do their work for
them.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Bill 29 slammed the door shut on information government does not
want people to know. When Muskrat Falls begins to go over budget, no one outside
of Nalcor and government will know. We will be relying on a government who
ignored independent reports and avoided sending the PUB the information they
needed to keep us updated.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Will she promise this House bimonthly
updates, including cash flow information, information on costs, and reports on
construction deadlines for the duration of the project?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, you will see there is a Tweet from a media person earlier that
the federal loan guarantee has been released totally unredacted' so that the
full guarantee is out there. We have been open and transparent in relation to
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. KENNEDY: Yes, that is right. It is redacted or unredacted'.
Anyway, Mr. Speaker, we have been open and transparent. We have released all
the numbers in relation to this project, Mr. Speaker, and we will continue to
release the numbers because the cost overruns are obviously a question of
concern to the people of this Province. We will ensure, Mr. Speaker, that we
will continue to provide information and I will have to look up the word and
see which one is the right one.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Government has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars advertising their
Muskrat Falls Project and still 77 per cent of people polled said they had a
fair to poor understanding of the project.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Will she take her private member's motion off
the table and replace it with a government motion so we can have a real and full
debate on the project?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Unfortunately, a significant part of that 77 per cent is over on the other
side of the House, Mr. Speaker, despite our best efforts to provide information.
It is important that the people of the Province be engaged in this project,
Mr. Speaker, that they ask questions about the project. This is a significant
expenditure in Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, we have provided volumes
of information on Web sites, in flyers. We have tabled information here in the
House, but given the spin that we are seeing here today on the loan guarantee,
Mr Speaker, I am not at all surprised that people are somewhat confused with the
information coming out of the House of Assembly. It is not condescension, Mr.
Speaker; it is an obligation to get the facts right. You can agree or disagree,
but you should get your facts right.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
We all know Nalcor has begun the Muskrat Falls Project, even though
government has not formally sanctioned it. Mr. Speaker, it has been full steam
ahead for some time.
I ask the Minister of Natural Resources: Has Nalcor purchased or negotiated
to purchase material, infrastructure, and/or equipment pertaining to the
construction of work camps from Manitoba Hydro which will be used in the
construction of similar camps for the Muskrat Falls Project?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, there were temporary accommodations purchased from Manitoba
Hydro International. The major accommodations will be built in the spring, if
the project is sanctioned, for accommodating approximately 2,000 people. The
temporary camp will hold up to 250 workers, Mr. Speaker. This temporary camp can
also be moved to other sites, if necessary. It is something that was required
now in order to prepare if the decision on sanction was positive.
I will say, Mr. Speaker, based on everything I see today and based on the
federal loan guarantee, there is no reason to think the sanction decision will
be anything but positive.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am requesting the Minister of Natural Resources table the
document he just quoted from.
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The MHI, page 71, third paragraph, states that Nalcor will sell power to NL
Hydro under a take-or-pay arrangement. We are supposed to get 40 per cent of
that power. That means consumers could end up with having to pay for the power
if they do not use it. That is my
interpretation.
Question: Nalcor is selling this for a fifty-year arrangement; will the
minister make public the details of the take-or-pay arrangement?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I cannot say I totally understand the question,
but I think what it relates to is the issue of whether or not we are going to
use the 40 per cent of the power. Well, Mr. Speaker, we know that by 2017 and
2019 there will increased peak demand for approximately 200 megawatts of power
that we have to find somewhere. Mr. Speaker, again, as the Premier said earlier:
Do we need the power? Yes.
Mr. Speaker, the question then becomes: What are we going to do about it? If
we are going to need power, we either have to build Muskrat Falls or close
Holyrood. We are going to close Holyrood, Mr. Speaker, which means, right away,
we are going to use power. The 40 per cent of the power will certainly be
utilized on the Island portion of the Province. There will be power purchase
agreements in place, Mr. Speaker, and those power purchase agreements are
standard, I understand, in the way these matters are dealt with.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, it is obvious the Natural Resources Minister
cannot answer the question. I will ask the question again in a different way.
Mr. Speaker, the taxpayers and ratepayers are at risk with the Muskrat Falls
deal under the take-or-pay arrangement. If we sign on to a fifty-year
take-or-pay arrangement for the selling of the power, what happens if we do not
meet the demand forecast for the power, for the people who are going to be
buying this 40 per cent? Will the ratepayer and taxpayer be left on the hook for
paying the difference that could amount to millions? It is a simple question.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, a couple of basic points; one, we are going to need power as a
Province no matter what; two, we are going to be paying electricity bills no
matter what; three, if we continue to burn oil at Holyrood, we are going to pay
a lot of money to offshore oil companies.
Mr. Speaker, the doom and gloom that comes from Eeyore and the group over
there is not what we see over here. We see a Province that is going to bustle,
that is going to grow, that is going to provide a future for our children and
grandchildren. That is the difference between us and them, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Member for St. John's Centre.
MS ROGERS: Mr. Speaker, Newfoundland and Labrador has the fastest-growing
aging population in the country. In the age-friendly survey our seniors said
housing is a key issue for them. Housing costs here are the fastest rising in
the country, with historic high rental and low vacancy rates. Most seniors after
a lifetime of work are subsisting on income levels below minimum wage.
Mr. Speaker, I ask: Will this government, with this growing housing problem,
establish a specialized seniors' rental assistance program similar to what the
Government of BC has done?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I feel like I require the need once again to be repeating myself because the
hon. member opposite is asking about some of the great and wonderful programs
that are happening in Newfoundland and Labrador today to deal with issues
surrounding homelessness and those people who need assistance and support most
in this Province. That is where our focus is.
We have a great focus on seniors in this Province, Mr. Speaker. Some of the
programs we do to assist seniors are programs like the Provincial Home Repair
Program, where this year we invested $6.7 million. It helped 1,750
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DAVIS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, it helped 1,750 homeowners in just this
year. The Residential Energy Efficiency Program is another program that we use.
We have expanded rent supplements now to the betterment and the benefit of more
people than ever before.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.
MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
They do not seem to be working at all. Last spring the Health Council of
Canada reported that 93 per cent of seniors want to stay in their homes, yet an
increasing number are not receiving the hours of home care that they need to do
so. In public consultations for government's long-term care and community
support services strategy, people clearly said the cap on subsidized home care
hours might save government money but it does not help seniors, yet the strategy
has no concrete plan to increase home care.
I ask the minister: Will this government commit to allocate more funds in its
next Budget to the regional health authorities to raise the cap on home care
hours?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we are currently serving a population of about 7,700 seniors
within the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and persons with disabilities
to the tune of about $161 million a year.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, in terms of home support, we are always looking
to augment that program. That is why we have a whole suite of programs within
home support. We have looked at rapid response from hospitals, for example, as a
means of ensuring that seniors can go home with the support that they need
there. We are looking at something that is phenomenally different than anywhere
in this country, which will be paid family care, Mr. Speaker, another means of
supporting people who otherwise would be looking for home support.
Mr. Speaker, we have a suite of programs. We continue to evaluate them, to
analyze them, and to find
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to raise a point of order that occurred during Question Period. It is
with regard to the Tabling of Documents in this House. Yesterday we saw the
Minister of Natural Resources reading from a document in the House; again today
in Question Period we saw the same. According to O'Brien and Bosc, it says that
any documented quoted by a minister in debate or in response to a question
during Question Period must be tabled upon request. Indeed, a minister is not at
liberty to read a quote from a despatch, an official written message on
government affairs, or other state paper, without being prepared to table it, if
this can be done without prejudice to the public interest.
As per O'Brien and Bosc, it is noted that in a previous ruling, Mr. Speaker,
an hon. member is not entitled to read from communications unless they are
prepared to place them on the Table of the House. The principle upon which this
is based is that where information is given to the House, the House itself is
entitled to the same information as the hon. member who may quote the document.
In light of that, Mr. Speaker, I ask for a ruling and I ask the minister to
table the document that he read from again today.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to the point of
order.
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am looking at a document entitled Key Messages, Temporary Accommodations,
December 3, 2012. My understanding of the question was in relation to temporary
accommodations. This is the document I have here, Mr. Speaker. I took the
document out when I was asked the question. I in fact made a mistake. I referred
to Manitoba Hydro International. It is Manitoba Hydro from whom the camp was
purchased.
Mr. Speaker, you can take the document. I did not read from it. You can look
at it yourself. What you will see is I looked at it. I looked down for notes to
see and to make sure I had my numbers. I referred to 250 temporary workers like
that and then I referred to 2,000.
Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that we are allowed to use notes in the
House to refresh memory and to help assist us in answering questions. Mr.
Speaker, you can take this document. I really do not care if it is given to them
or not. That is not the point. The issue is that there needs to be a ruling as
to whether or not what I said in Hansard is a direct quote from this document.
There is the document that is headed Key Messages, Temporary Accommodations.
You can look at it, Mr. Speaker, and make a ruling yourself.
MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As has been pointed out by the Opposition House Leader, the directions around
the quoting from documents are quite clear in O'Brien and Bosc. I leave it to
you to make rulings on that.
We know that the practice is very clear across this country, too, in
Legislatures. I have actually seen it when I have watched some of the other
Legislatures. When a document is quoted from, it is immediately passed over and
it is recognized that it should be passed over.
It was very clear in the answer to me today that the minister referred to a
document very directly. He was not just refreshing his memory. He had a document
and referred from that document.
With that evidence, Mr. Speaker
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: I really do ask you for a ruling on this point of order
with regard to the use of documents by ministers.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The Government House Leader to the point of order.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of all, just to be clear, at no point in time has the minister refused
to table the document as has been insinuated in the last comments. Secondly,
directly to the point of order, the question from our perspective is very clear,
as the minister stated. It is a question of
interpretation. First of all, I have
the document here and we are prepared to table it, but since we are on a point
of order, we are not simply requesting a tabling of a document. We are debating
a point of order, Mr. Speaker, as I understand it.
I will stick my comments on that line of thinking, that Bosc is also very
clear as I read it on the kinds of documents you can ask a member to table in
this House. I would just ask the Speaker in doing the ruling if you would give
consideration. I reference 473 as one page by way of quickly looking, Mr.
Speaker. There is a very clear difference between the types of documents a
minister can be asked to table in this House. It is clear that speaking notes
may not necessarily be one of those documents.
I would just ask the Speaker, in his consideration of a ruling on this, if
you would take a moment and refer to the types of documents because again, to
be very clear, this is not about whether the minister is prepared to table a
document or not. We are actually debating a point of order on what ought to be
tabled in the House.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Speaker has heard the point of order raised by the Member for Cartwright
L'Anse au Clair and the comments with respect to the point of order. It is
obvious the issue of what reference means is critical to the commentary with
respect to the point of order.
Before I make a ruling, I want to review Hansard to ensure how the reference
was made in the comment today. I remind members the word reference, in terms of
whether or not there is an obligation, is whether or not the document was
referred to either as citing from it or referencing it by name; however,
referencing something as speaking notes a person may have and may glance on them
as a reference to help frame comments is a very different use of the word
reference.
The Speaker, before I make a ruling formally, I would want to review Hansard
to see how the minister made his comments today and on tomorrow I will provide a
commentary to the House.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Tabling of Documents.
Notices of Motion.
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, I stand today on the family caregivers petition that I received from
people from the Bay of Islands.
To the hon. House of Assembly for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador
in Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly
sheweth:
WHEREAS home care allows the elderly and people with disabilities to remain
within the comfort and security of their own homes, home care also allows people
to be discharged from hospital earlier; and
WHEREAS many people find it difficult to recruit and retain home care workers
for their loved ones; and
WHEREAS the PC Blue Book 2011 as well as the 2012 Speech from the Throne
committed that government would develop a new model of home care and give people
the options of receiving that care from family members; and
WHEREAS government has given no time commitment for when government plans to
implement paying family caregivers;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to
implement a new home care model to cover family caregivers in the 2012-2013
Budget.
And in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, I rise again. I heard the minister again talking about the
amount of money that is put into home care, but I remind the minister, Mr.
Speaker, that this was a commitment made by the Premier during the last
election, which is over a year ago. There was a commitment made that family will
be able to take care of their loved ones in their homes. This was a commitment
that was made during the election. This was a commitment that all people in
Newfoundland and Labrador are expecting the government to honour.
We always hear about the most vulnerable people in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, some can argue there are no more
vulnerable people in Newfoundland and Labrador than a loved one who is at home
and needs proper care, especially in rural Newfoundland and Labrador where
people cannot find home caregivers. They just cannot find them. They are not
available. The only way some people can take care of their loved ones is to find
some way to go on social assistance or mortgage their house, Mr. Speaker. It is
not fair in this society.
I know the minister mentioned today we are waiting for something new. Six
months ago it was committed that it is coming very, very soon
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. JOYCE: - yet, we are still waiting. While we are still waiting, I can
assure every member in this House and every person in this Province who is
waiting for this to be put in place, Mr. Speaker, that it is trying times for a
lot of people.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the government to follow through on your commitment, help
the most vulnerable people in this Province and come through with your
commitment and come through with a family caregiver program.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.
MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I petition the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents
humbly showeth:
WHEREAS the residents of the Community Fox Roost Margaree, of the Province
of Newfoundland and Labrador, must use Route 470-10 on a regular basis for work,
medical, educational and social reasons; and
WHEREAS Route 470-10 is in deplorable condition, such that the shoulders of
the road continuously wash away and there are huge potholes in the road; and
WHEREAS the condition of Route 470-10 poses a safety hazard to residents and
visitors to the Community of Fox Roost Margaree; and
WHEREAS the Department of Transportation and Works is responsible for the
maintenance and repairs in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; and
WHEREAS the local division of the Department of Transportation and Works does
make periodic repairs to this route but these repairs are only temporary
patchwork and this road needs to be resurfaced;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to support
the users of Route 470-10 in their request to have Route 470-10 resurfaced.
And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, this is a
section of the roadway, I guess, similar to many
sections of the roadway in this Province in that they are not in great shape,
but this particular one is one that my constituents have made special note to
me. Having been down there on numerous occasions, I can concur with them that
the road is in a deplorable state.
It is no matter where I go in the area, I hear from people. I hear from taxi
drivers who have to drive down there late at night and are worried about their
safety. I have to hear from delivery trucks that are going back and forth and
have to travel over this road, the road which is so bad that in certain cases
there is only enough for one vehicle to go. You do not have two lanes; you have
one lane which you have to go.
The fact is that this is one of the few areas in my district that I believe
may have seen an increase in population. It is a growing area. It is a Local
Service District, but there are people moving there, there are people building.
They deserve to have the proper infrastructure and that means having the road
resurfaced.
I believe it has been decades since that has been done, so I am asking this
House to consider it in the next round of repairs. I know it might be difficult
given the looming deficit that hangs over us, and promises to take away the
money that is going to get any infrastructure done in this Province, but I feel
it is incumbent. The department is aware of it; they have been out and been with
me to drive down this road. I ask the House to please consider this and urge to
have this desperate piece of work done as soon as possible.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Before I acknowledge the Leader of the Third Party, I would
ask members if they would respect the fact that when the Speaker acknowledges
someone who has the floor, if they would keep their conversations down to a
minimum, and if they need to pursue it, that they would take it outside.
The hon. the Leader of the Third Party on petitions.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Once again I have petitions from people who have concerns with regard to the
Muskrat Falls Project and the process. In their name I am very honoured to
present this petition, which has been certified by the Clerk of the House.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland
and Labrador humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS the Board of Commissioners of Public Utilities is the entity
responsible for the regulation of electric utilities in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador; and
WHEREAS the Muskrat Falls Project proposal is potentially the single-largest
expenditure the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has considered; and
WHEREAS the PUB is an independent, quasi-judicial regulatory body capable of
providing an unbiased and apolitical decision on the Muskrat Falls proposal; and
WHEREAS government is breaking its own commitment to greater transparency and
accountability by not allowing the PUB to review the Muskrat Falls proposal;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge government to mandate the Board of Commissioners of
Public Utilities to review the Muskrat Falls Project proposal, along with any
and all alternatives available for meeting our energy needs.
And as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
I note in the petition that the petitioners are well aware of what the role
of our public utilities body is here in Newfoundland and Labrador. They
understand that the role of the public utilities body is not just to look at the
simple fact of how much people pay for electricity and the rates that they pay;
the public utilities body is also mandated with looking at developments in
energy, developments of utilities, and to determine if the developments that are
going ahead are good for the Province and for the people in the Province, and
that they are justified. This is an extremely important point, Mr. Speaker.
Right now, for example, over in Manitoba you have their Public Utilities
Board looking at two dams that are being built by Manitoba Hydro; the Public
Utilities Board is the body that is really questioning if those two dams are
operating as they should, if those two dams are for the good of the people of
Manitoba. It is not the government that is questioning it; it is the Public
Utilities Board.
This is a process that happens everywhere in this country and used to happen
here in this Province. The people who have signed this petition, the
petitioners, are wanting the same process that they are used to having the
process that happens in other parts of the country involved in the
determination of Muskrat Falls.
So, I do ask the government, Mr. Speaker, to take seriously the voice of
people who do want Muskrat Falls to be studied by the PUB.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.
MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS with the passage of Bill 29, the Access To Information And Protection
Of Privacy Amendment Act, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has
weakened citizens' access to information, and has reduced government
transparency; and
WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has moved towards greater
secrecy and less openness; and
WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is breaking its own
commitment for greater transparency, accountability, and freedom of information,
which it said at one time was the hallmark of its government;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to repeal
the passage of Bill 29.
And as is in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, it seems that this government has developed some kind of an
addiction; it seems to have developed an addiction or a bad habit of
disempowering its own legitimate bodies that have been set up by legislation
with a valid and an important mandate.
Not only is it, Mr. Speaker, disempowering the Privacy Commission, but also
disempowering the Public Utilities Board. They have disempowered and weakened
the role of the Privacy Commissioner by making sure his term is only two years
instead of five and also lessening his authority to review requests on behalf of
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who are validly seeking information
through the access to information act.
Mr. Speaker, we know people across the Province are strongly opposing this.
They want to see this repealed. People are still feeling betrayed. They are
reeling from the sense of betrayal they feel as a result of this legislation.
This government promised to be the most transparent, the most accountable, and
the most open, yet their actions are exactly the opposite.
Why they are doing this, not only to the Public Utilities Board but in terms
of access to information, is quite puzzling at a time in our history when we do
need more openness, more transparency, and more accountability. People of the
Province rely on these very legitimate bodies that have been set up through
legislation. They have a valid and important role to play. They have a valid and
important mandate.
Mr. Speaker, I happy to be able to bring this petition to the House that
people across the Province have been signing.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's North.
MR. KIRBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland
and Labrador humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS our schools are the heart of our communities and we should do all
that we can to preserve them long into the future; and
WHEREAS the proposal to reconfigure Immaculate Conception School in Colliers
as a K-4 school denies students fundamental rights, including the right to a
healthy, active, safe, and caring school environment; and
WHEREAS government is compelled to give school reconfiguration decisions some
consideration, as was the case in 2005 when the PC government decided to ensure
the continuation of a K-12 system in Bishop's Falls; and
WHEREAS parents of Immaculate Conception School students have been lobbying
government for a school gymnasium facility since 1999;
We, the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to urge government to
ensure that the Eastern School District is provided with adequate funds to
maintain Immaculate Conception School as a K-6 school. We further petition the
House of Assembly to urge government to ensure that a new school is constructed
to replace the existing inadequate facilities at Immaculate Conception School.
Mr. Speaker, over the course of the fall, I have had an opportunity to attend
a number of public meetings regarding the proposed school closures and
reconfigurations within the Eastern School District. The meeting is happening
tonight, in fact, at Roncalli again, the second meeting, where parents and other
community supporters will have an opportunity to speak to the school of trustees
at the Eastern School District about the proposed change at Immaculate
Conception.
I think one of the real interesting things that I have observed by talking to
parents over the course of this whole process is how much overlap there is
between the different school councils, the different schools affected, in terms
of the issues that they are concerned about and the things that they believe.
For example, that their school facilities are for the most part sufficient that
they just need particular changes, such as in the case of Immaculate Conception
which has been seeking a new gymnasium for a number of years.
There are concerns about busing. There are also concerns about bullying and
mixing children in their younger grades with what has been traditionally high
school, in this instance. I think there certainly is a difference of opinion in
a lot of communities, whether it is Whitbourne or Colliers or what have you,
about the way the Eastern School District has foreseen their future, whether
that is population projections, whether there will be growth or decline.
We hope, Mr Speaker, that
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Your time has expired.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Orders of the Day, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day have been called.
Orders of the Day
MR. KING: I call from the Order Paper, Motion 2 under Motions, the
reappointment of the Citizens' Representative, the motion as was read into
Hansard by myself yesterday, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, it is certainly my pleasure to stand today and speak in support
of the resolution before the House to reappoint Mr. Barry Fleming of the Queen's
Council as the Province's Citizens' Representative pursuant to subsection 3(1)
and
section 5 of the Citizens' Representative Act.
Mr. Fleming was first appointed as the Citizens' Representative for the
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador by a unanimous resolution of this House of
Assembly on December 6, 2006. That appointment, Mr. Speaker, was for a six-year
term and expires on December 5, 2012.
The Citizens' Representative is an officer of the House of Assembly and is
independent of both the political process and government Administration. The
office investigates and resolves complaints about provincial government
departments and agencies, and recommends corrective action, Mr. Speaker.
Services are free and confidential.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. KING: Thank you.
Our government, Mr. Speaker, has consistently demonstrated our unwavering
commitment to accountability and transparency. Not only with the Office of the
Citizens' Representative but also through our initiative to bring the Auditor
General back into the House of Assembly, through the establishment of a Child
and Youth Advocate, and most recently through the establishment of the Office of
Public Engagement.
We also consistently demonstrate through our significant ongoing financial
investments a commitment to helping those in society who need it the most.
Whether through social initiatives, such as poverty reduction or violence
prevention, the far-reaching advances we have made in helping children and
families through the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, or through
investments in our justice system, Mr. Speaker, such as additional money for
legal aid resources, an expansion of victim services, our government has clearly
shown that we believe all citizens of the Province should have the opportunity
to live in peace, security and fairness.
The Citizens' Representative is an office that facilitates access to fairness
and equity for people who feel that they have not been properly dealt with. The
person holding the post is an independent officer of the House, just as the
Auditor General and the Child and Youth Advocate are.
Section 15, Mr. Speaker, of the act highlights the function of this
particular post. "The Citizens' Representative may, on a written complaint or on
his or her own initiative, investigate a decision or recommendation made,
including a recommendation made to a minister, or
an act done or omitted,
relating to a matter of administration in or by a department or agency of the
government, or by an officer, employee or member of the department or agency,
where a person is or may be aggrieved."
The Citizens' Representative has considerable investigative powers which
enable the office holder to get to the heart of a government decision and make a
judgment about whether someone has been wronged and whether a remedy of some
sort should be made. It is essential, Mr. Speaker, that such a post be held by
someone of the utmost integrity and ability, who is seen by the public as being
thorough, fair, and diligent in all dealings. Mr. Fleming has shown himself to
be a person of such calibre as he has executed the duties of the Office of the
Citizens' Representative over the past six years.
Our citizens are represented by a competent investigator, a fair and balanced
adjudicator of facts, and an able advocate in Mr. Fleming. Prior to taking up
the role of the Citizens' Representative in December of 2006, Mr. Fleming served
from 1995 up to that point as the legal counsel for the Province's Human Rights
Commission and from 2003 to 2006 as the Acting Executive Director of the
Commission.
As the general counsel to the Commission and its staff, Mr. Fleming assessed
initial complaints to ensure that they met legal and jurisdictional
requirements. He assisted staff with legal aspects of complaints, prepared legal
opinions, provided seminars and presentations on human rights law, and
represented the Commission at boards of inquiry and in the Supreme Court Trial
Division and Court of Appeal.
Mr. Fleming is a lawyer and a member of the Law Society of Newfoundland and
Labrador. He had seven years of experience in private practice with an emphasis
on small business law, human rights, immigration, and refugee law. He holds not
just a Bachelor of Laws, Mr. Speaker, but also a Masters of Business
Administration from Dalhousie, and a Bachelor of Arts with a gold medal in
economics from Memorial. He has instructed business law at Memorial's Faculty of
Business, and he has served as an instructor for the Law Society of Newfoundland
and Labrador's Bar admissions course.
With his exemplary work in the past six years, Mr. Fleming has demonstrated a
thorough understanding of public administration, including budgeting, human
resource management, and accountability and transparency reporting. He has a
well-honed understanding of the structure, processes and functions of various
government departments and agencies. Mr. Fleming has also called on skills in
both written and oral communication, research, community and media relations,
annual report drafting, and accountable administration of funds, in his role as
the Citizens' Representative.
In short, Mr. Speaker, he has done an excellent job for the citizens of this
Province and has been thorough and fair in taking on the responsibilities of his
post, and Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have been well-served. I trust that
other members will acknowledge Mr. Fleming's impressive qualifications and his
track record as the Citizens' Representative, and agree with us that he is
well-placed in this vital role.
Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to support this motion today for the
reappointment of such a critical position for the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador. Mr. Fleming has done an admirable job and is an outstanding choice to
fill that role.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am certainly pleased to rise and speak to the motion that the Government
House Leader put forward today to reappoint Mr. Barry Fleming as the provincial
ombudsman, or the Citizens' Representative in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, this office was opened in 2002. It is an independent office of
the House of Assembly; that I do know for certain, through my own involvement
with the Citizens' Representative office.
Mr. Speaker, I was part of the government when we put this office in place in
Newfoundland and Labrador. In fact, what would have been the ombudsman's office
in earlier years was taken out and it should have never been.
The reason that you have a Citizens' Representative in this Province is to
ensure that the people who do not have a voice do have one, and they have an
independent voice. It is to ensure that those who feel they have nowhere else to
turn when dealing with regulatory bodies, government policies, and injustices
social and otherwise in society have a place where they can go, someone who
can help them, someone who can assist them.
Mr. Fleming, as the Government House Leader has indicated, has held this
position for some time. Mr. Speaker, I have found that in dealing with him, and
in all of the reports that I have had from other people in this Province who
have dealt with him, he the kind of individual who actually takes the time; he
takes the time to listen to people's issues, no matter how small or big in
scope. He takes the opportunity to look at a thorough process of trying to deal
with what their issue is and looking for results for them. He is the kind of
person I have been told by people they found him really down to earth. I think
that is important when you are going to be a Citizens' Rep in this Province; you
have to be approachable to all people in all walks of life.
I guess, Mr. Speaker, one of the sad things and it is not uncommon for a
lot of people who do work in this capacity; oftentimes their recommendations are
not always listened to. They put forward some very good reports, some very good
recommendations. Many of them are adhered to; oftentimes, some of them are not.
Mr. Fleming has had a very challenging time in the time that he has held the
position, there is absolutely no doubt about that. He has dealt with all kinds
of inquiries from citizens throughout this Province as it relates to government
and government departments and whether things are being handled fairly or
unfairly. He has taken it upon himself to do a lot of investigative work on many
different complaints.
Mr. Speaker, if you look at some of his annual reports, for myself, in
learning more about this office and what they do, I am always impressed and
sometimes surprised by the kind of work he does. They deal with cases of
eviction notices, for example, with Newfoundland and Labrador Housing
Corporation, whether a person has been fairly or unfairly evicted from a
property. They have dealt with cases regarding inmates, the release dates of
inmates, and whether it was appropriate or not. He has dealt with cases where
people have been denied MCP coverage in the Province. He has dealt with Income
Support cases in the Province, when people were denied certain levels of
support, whether it would be for lodging, for home care services, and so on. He
has dealt with cases in which people with disabilities require specific
equipment to help them in their daily lives in society. He has dealt with cases
where people have not received the level of home care they felt they should be
getting.
Mr. Speaker, the list just goes on and on. I name some of these examples
because there are a lot of people out there who do not often understand what the
job of a Citizens' Representative is.
They talk about cases where there is no housing or food. There are
individuals who actually went to his office and asked for help with things like
that. There are cases where public employees of government did not get the
promotions they were guaranteed or did not receive the kind of action from
government on performance issues they were bringing forward. Those issues were
dealt with.
I remember cases I dealt with myself, Mr. Speaker, very publicly in the
media, with regard to conditions at the Waterford Hospital and the treatment of
certain patients and services of certain patients within the Waterford Hospital.
These were issues that, as the Citizens' Representative, he certainly took a
look at and dealt with.
Mr. Speaker, there were a couple of other issues. One of them in particular I
remember I dealt with in the House of Assembly; it went back to 2007. That was
when the first real realization to me of the Citizens' Representative and the
amount of power this office actually had. It was dealing with a case in Labrador
in which female inmates from Labrador were being held in Clarenville in Eastern
Newfoundland. The issue here was to secure accommodations in Labrador and to
secure proper accommodations whereby female prisoners could be held in Labrador,
many of them of course were Aboriginal women and they needed the opportunity to
be able to receive the services close to home. It was very overwhelming for them
to be transported to Clarenville.
When Mr. Fleming investigated this issue and presented his report to
government at the time, he recommended that there should be rehabilitation
services in Happy Valley-Goose Bay for Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal women who
were being housed in our prisons. He recommended that the facility should be
able to accommodate up to five inmates. When that study came out, I guess I was
very hopeful that government would act immediately to ensure that these
accommodations and rehabilitation services would be placed in Labrador and would
be available to female inmates.
At the time it was the Member for St. John's South, who is now the
independent member, who was the Minister of Justice at that time. I was not at
all happy with the comments that he made, Mr. Speaker, because he said that the
new facility would serve a very small population. He said they would consider
the proposal but we do have to look at the practicality of operating a facility
that on an average basis may house two, one, or maybe just three individuals at
a time.
Mr. Speaker, those comments in my mind were not fair by the member at the
time because we were dealing with cases in Labrador where women were being held
over in penitentiaries where there were men, where women were being strip
searched in these penitentiaries, where they were not being treated properly.
This issue had to go to the Citizens' Representative in order to get the issue
resolved.
After all that time, after specific cases, after recommendations you get the
Justice Minister of the day, who was the Member for St. John's South, saying
that because the population is small and we are only dealing with a few women,
we are not sure if we are going to do anything or not. Well that is not the
point. It is not the principle of what we were dealing with.
Mr. Speaker, after that there was tremendous public pressure that came to
bear and the government did decide further down the road that they would indeed
put facilities in Labrador to deal with this problem, but the story did not end
there because it was three years later that government had to rethink that
decision. What they had determined was going to be a $2 million for the
detention centre, Mr. Speaker, was going to be a project that cost closer to $15
million in order to treat women and youth within their own culture and within
familiar surroundings.
Mr. Speaker, once again, it became a big issue. I am recounting the story
because I want to reinforce the impact that the Citizens' Representative has on
issues like this in the Province, and how the recommendations of the Citizens'
Representative may not always be accepted within its entirety by government but
it becomes a catalyst for change. It allows the rest of us in society to build
upon their findings, their research and their recommendations, Mr. Speaker, to
ensure that we do things in the best interest of the public.
One other very high profile case that I will cite, not one that I was
involved in directly myself but one that certainly my colleague for Burgeo La
Poile was involved in and the former Member for Burgeo La Poile was involved
in. That is the investigation, Mr. Speaker, into the psychiatrist at Her
Majesty's Penitentiary in St. John's.
The Citizens' Representative, Mr. Speaker, did investigate this. He
recommended that the Justice Department needed to immediately replace Dr. Craig,
a psychiatrist at HMP, who had been criticized by mental health advocates for
his prescribing practices.
Mr. Speaker, that was the recommendation that was put forward by the
Citizens' Representative, Mr. Fleming. However, Mr. Speaker, at the time, the
Justice Minister, the Member for Placentia at the time, dismissed the report and
said that the Citizens' Representative does not have the expertise or
jurisdiction to review the work of a psychiatrist. He said he would order a
review of Craig's work by another psychiatrist.
Mr. Speaker, once again a very high profile case. A case that was brought
forward by inmates, by inmate's families, by members of the public to the
Citizens' Representative who went out and researched it, investigated it and
made recommendations around it.
While the Minister of Justice chose not to accept his report, it was the work
of the Citizens' Representative that did again become the catalyst for a peer
review and further reviews of what was happening at HMP. As a result, we have
seen the new review made public. We have seen some changes occurring at HMP.
Mr. Speaker, there have been a lot of cases, like I said, with regard to
housing, with regard to patients who have been inappropriately billed at Eastern
Health, whereby the Citizens' Representative got results immediately for those
people. There have been bigger cases, more public cases. While his
recommendations may not have been accepted in their entirety by government, they
were the catalyst for change and improvements, and they became the premise upon
which the public could continue to advocate for better services for people in
the Province.
Mr. Speaker, that is the role of the Citizens' Rep, and like a lot of offices
in this Province, their success is often attributed to the people who carry out
the work. I would like to commend Mr. Fleming for the work that he has done, the
independence that he has brought to the office in doing that work, in being fair
to those in society who do not have a voice and giving them that voice.
Mr. Speaker, we support the motion to reappoint him for another term as the
Citizens' Representative for this Province and we wish him well in the work and
the duties that he is about to execute on behalf of the people of the Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, am quite pleased and honoured to stand and speak in support of the
reappointment of Mr. Barry Fleming as the Citizens' Representative.
As has been pointed out by both the House Leader and the Opposition House
Leader, it is an extremely important role that Mr. Fleming fills as the
Citizens' Representative. It is a wonderful statement about our Province that we
do have a Citizens' Representative. Every government needs it; every society
needs it.
I know that Mr. Fleming and I have been around for the same period of time. I
was elected in November, 2006 and he was appointed in December, 2006. I guess he
probably was the first statutory officer that I was involved in the appointment
of.
I have experienced his whole tenure as the Citizens' Representative. I have
to say that I have always been so impressed by so many things about Mr. Fleming:
his availability, his openness, his willingness to always be there to answer
questions and to explain the work of his office. I really do appreciate the way
in which he makes sure that we get to know his staff, the people who do the work
with him. I have had a number of occasions over the last six years to be able to
meet with him and to get to an understanding of his understanding of his role.
He is a person who really cares about people and cares about the system
working for people, and that is what has really impressed me about him. He is a
very straight-up person. He speaks very clearly and very openly about issues and
he is not afraid to put out there what he is thinking about issues and about how
our system is working. I have to say I really appreciate that.
I believe he has shown real leadership and real vision to us in the Province
around what the Citizens' Representative can be. I notice in their 2011 Annual
Report that he has a post script to his annual report, and in the post script he
talks about the role of his office and his role in seeking fairness and finding
solutions. I do think that is what he has really exhibited as the Citizens'
Representative, that he is always looking for fairness and he doggedly looks for
the solutions. That is what I like about him: he doggedly looks for solutions.
He does not give up. He keeps at an issue.
He cares about people and he understands the vulnerable situations in which
people find themselves, situations that they have not created, whether it is a
situation inside of a family, whether it is a situation in dealing with a
government agency, whether it is a situation inside of an institution that is
run by government; no matter what the situation is, he understands how people
experience vulnerability inside of certain situations. He understands that when
people are in such vulnerable situations, they cannot by themselves deal with
the situation and they cannot get themselves out of it.
There were a number of occasions over the last six years where I have been
able to recommend to people who come to me, constituents who have come to me
from difficult situations where they felt they were not being treated fairly by
some departments or being treated fairly by institutions, where I felt very
confident that I could actually send them to Mr. Fleming and that there would be
a hearing. What I would like to point out is: it is not just Mr. Fleming
himself. It is also the staff. It is the stamp that he has put on that office;
it is the stamp that he has put on the staff. All the ones who I have met I find
to be very, very caring people and people who really are committed to what he
has in this year's annual report, committed to seeking fairness and finding
solutions.
We have some of the things that he has done he has done so much obviously.
On a one-on-one level, he has dealt with some of the most nitty-gritty issues,
like helping a citizen get a bathtub lift, a person who is disabled, and getting
one from a health authority right through to dealing with the issues of, as was
pointed out by the Opposition House Leader, female offenders from Labrador,
women who are Aboriginal women.
He has done everything from the one-on-one, which has to be done, right
through to the systemic. That is why he has done such a good job as the rep. He
understands that if he has a repeat of people coming with the same issue and
first it is one person, then maybe three, then maybe four, then the number keeps
coming around a certain issue, then he realizes there is a systemic problem
here. He then moves from helping the individual, which still has to happen, to
seeing how he can help solve the systemic problem so that everybody will benefit
from the systemic changes.
I think that was one of the things that drove him, for example, with regard
to the investigation of psychiatric services at the provincial correctional
facilities. He recognized a systemic problem. Because of that, we now have a
report which I think does deal with things on a systemic level which I think is
extremely important. The more we work towards making that system better, the
more we work towards helping that system, then all individuals inside of that
system are going to be helped.
I think that is something that he understands extremely well, is the systemic
nature of change that has to go on. Sometimes it is easy for us to forget that,
easy for us in government programs to forget that as well, where we just get
used to taking care of the problems without also looking at the systemic change
that is needed. I think that is something that Mr. Fleming brings to us.
I know that whenever I have met with him and he did meet with our caucus
after we were all elected in 2011 that is something he talked about then, that
it is something that he always brings forward. It is his understanding of the
need for systemic change and working on a systemic level.
The same was true, too, when he did the report on the facilities and supports
for female offenders from Labrador. We have to change systems. I really thank
him for the legacy he is leaving as a Citizens' Representative. He is
continuing, but when he leaves, if he were to leave today, he has done so much
to benefit us. Now we can look forward to another six years of him doing this
work.
I really appreciate, too, the way he totally gives of himself in terms of his
time, his availability, and the way in which he goes around the Province doing
the intake sessions, which is so important. He understands what it takes for
people to have to come to him, to his office, and his staff, and that you need
to go out and let people understand who the Citizens' Representative is and whom
the staff of the Office of the Citizens' Representative is. It helps people
become open. It helps them bring their issues forward.
I have to say that Mr. Fleming has really shown a complete dedication to his
job and I am really quite delighted to be able to stand and say: Yes, I
definitely support this motion. I wish him well. I can say to him that I will
continue, and I know my caucus will continue, to be open to him and welcome him
to bring issues to us whenever he needs to.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour of the motion?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against?
Motion carried.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to apologize for the lateness of this request, but
I would like to ask if the Opposition would consider granting us leave to go
back to Tabling of Documents. The minister has the loan guarantee that we would
like to table before the House.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: The minister has leave.
Tabling of Documents
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have here before me the heading Agreement Providing Key Terms and
Conditions for the Federal Loan Guarantee by Her Majesty the Queen in Right of
Canada for Debt Financing of the Lower Churchill River Project. It is signed,
Mr. Speaker, by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Premier Kathy Dunderdale, Premier
Darrell Dexter, Ed Martin, the CEO of Nalcor, and Christopher Huskilson, the CEO
of Emera.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to table this document.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I call from the Order Paper, Address in Reply, Order 1.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr Speaker.
What a time to start speaking, Mr. Speaker, just as we table a loan guarantee
here in the House of Assembly. It is a significant time in our history. I will
get into that a little bit later on, but before I do, for those that are out in
TV land and the people here in the Province, and even the people in Atlantic
Canada and throughout our country: these loan guarantees and this one in
particular did not happen by accident. This took quite a bit of work; it has
been ongoing for a number of months and even longer than that, and it has been
quite a lengthy negotiation, up to last week; I know on Thursday it was touch
and go with our Premier at the table bringing forth the thing to protect us,
protect the Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and get the best deal for the
people of this Province, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: When the chips are down and things did not look like they
were going so well, well, it was brought back to the table again. It was through
the perseverance of the Premier of this Province with the able assistance of the
Minister of Natural Resources that this deal came through. Mr. Speaker, I want
to take my hat off to the Premier in particular who put the oar in the water and
made sure that this happened at a very crucial time in this Province's history.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, like many of us here in the House, I have never
built a dam. I guess many of the people in the Province have never built a dam.
Many of the very good businesspeople in this Province who have invested in
major investments in business and in construction and so on, what they do is go
out, they get the best advice available, and then they make a decision. As a
government, that is what we have to do. We have to go out and get the best
advice available. The best advice we can find in this case, I would like to
think that there is no one any more professional and with any more expertise
than Nalcor has here in this Province. Mr. Speaker, this is a company that has
been operating a hydroelectric facility for decades, and they bring with them a
wealth of knowledge that is built within the company and around the company, and
actually, we share that knowledge with other people throughout the world who are
in similar positions.
Although we have gone out and we sought some confirmation for some of the
work that Nalcor has done, there is nobody in my opinion in North America with
any more experience than we have right here at home, a company made of
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: It is something that I believe we should be very, very proud
of and certainly, I think we are, as a people. It is time for us to go it alone,
paddle our own canoes, as people say; we have the privilege right here of having
the experts to do that, and it is certainly good to see.
Mr. Speaker, going way, way back, I got elected first in 2002, and one of the
first things that I got involved with was the Holyrood generating station. It is
because at the time I represented the people of Holyrood and I represented the
people of Seal Cove. The people of Seal Cove actually were very close and
Holyrood, more so Seal Cove, because I grew up in Conception Bay South friends
of mine, people who I had played ball with, knew them regularly, went to their
homes, knew their kids. So, Mr. Speaker, this was not a new issue for me.
I guess one of the first things, I think Ed Martin may have and I said this
before here in the House; I think it was the first week he was on the job, if
not the first week, the second week he was on the job, I met with him. My whole
thing and what I presented to him were some of the issues that we were facing in
Holyrood. Included in that chat it was a very informal get-together; we
probably spent twenty minutes, half an hour together I showed him a number of
pictures of what comes out of the stack, what lands on people's properties, and
so on. Mr. Speaker, I spent that time with him outlining to him that something
had to be done. That was one of the first things I did when I met Ed Martin, and
he agreed. He agreed, Mr. Speaker.
I have had the calls from the residents of that area and I have met with the
committee in that area on many occasions. That committee was probably struck, I
am thinking, early 1990s, mid-1990s for sure. It went on forever with no
results. There was a time there was talk of some scrubbers and precipitators
being put in. There were other times they changed the bunker they were burning,
Mr. Speaker, that reduced some of the particulate matter to PM2.
Mr. Speaker, I do have a fair bit of experience from dealing with residents
in that area and looking at some of the things that they have experienced. Let
me just say, I have a number of things I could go on here today for quite some
time talking about the deal itself, and I am going to go into that in a little
bit, but I really wanted to talk and bring some of the residents' concerns about
the Holyrood generating station to the perspective, like I have done here in the
House of Assembly before. I know I presented a petition here; I think it was in
2009, Mr. Speaker, when we were the government. I am going to show you a history
of how important this issue was to our party going back to prior to us forming
the government. When we sat on that side of the House, Mr. Speaker, this was an
issue for this party, and now it is an issue for this government.
Mr. Speaker, I visited people's homes, and I looked at toy bikes and swimming
pools, and people's patio decks, and barbecues, and trucks, and pickups, and
recreational vehicles, Mr. Speaker, that were covered in soot and ash. Now, one
would say that is not the bad stuff. The bad stuff is the stuff you cannot see.
That is the good stuff, the stuff you can see. The bad stuff is the stuff you
cannot see.
Mr. Speaker, you can just imagine living next door to this facility.
Especially, at one point it was up close to 45 per cent, I think, of the
Province's energy, and then it dropped down as the mills fell off. Of course, it
is about to climb again now, Mr. Speaker. So you can imagine when that has a
hiccup.
Just last week, or early the week before, Mr. Speaker, I went home and had a
phone call, a gentleman who lives outside my district now but a gentleman that I
know quite well. He is not even part of the group that organized the people way,
way back. He phoned me to say: Terry, you are not going to believe this. I am
looking at a deck that is covered, my truck is covered, my house is covered
because Holyrood had some kind of a hiccup at the time, blew up the ash and, of
course, it went all over the neighbourhood.
Mr. Speaker, this is something that has been ongoing for a long, long time
and something that gives all of the residents of Conception Bay South, in
particular, a pain when they look at it and see the black smoke coming up, not
to mention the people of Holyrood and the people of all of Conception Bay. It is
blowing up around Conception Harbour, Colliers, and Harbour Main. Mr. Speaker,
everybody has had their touch with ash in that area. It is a big concern, and I
can tell you right now, there are not too many sad faces in Seal Cove and
Holyrood because Muskrat Falls is being built, I can assure you of that, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, just to point out a few things about Holyrood. I
know Minister Hedderson did it so well yesterday, but because I also represented
that area, and represent part of Conception Bay South, I thought I should point
out ten important points about Holyrood. I am not sure people know, Mr. Speaker,
certainly people throughout the Province.
Mr. Speaker, the plant burns 18,000 barrels of oil every day. Secondly, Mr.
Speaker, in 2011 burning fuel at the Holyrood plant cost the ratepayers of this
Province $135 million. The annual cost of oil to generate electricity at the
plant is projected to be $324 million. Let me say, Mr. Speaker, that is
certainly not chicken feed. As I have heard some other members of the House here
say it is the equivalent of taking 300,000 vehicles off the highways. Mr.
Speaker, it is certainly significant.
By doing Muskrat Falls and getting rid of Holyrood, Mr. Speaker, we will be
saving approximately 1.1 million tons of greenhouse gas emissions. It is also 1
million tons in Nova Scotia, and it is 2 million tons for North America. That is
how much in greenhouse gas emissions that Muskrat Falls will save, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, there are 11,600 tons of sulphur dioxide alone that comes out of
the facility. The plant is forty years old. I have met on numerous occasions
with the people who run the plant up there, a gentleman who has been there now
for quite some time, a friend of mine I went to school with. Mr. Speaker, I came
to know that we need a lot of work at that plant with time. Obviously the
maintenance costs, capital investments and upgrades are just a couple, Mr.
Speaker.
Emissions control equipment; there was talk of putting emission control
equipment there, Mr. Speaker, and that was going to be $600 million to $800
million, if I recall correctly. Plus, there is a $12 million to $15 million
operating on top of that, Mr. Speaker, so significant investments.
As well, Mr. Speaker, and I guess something that we should all be very, very
proud of with Muskrat Falls, is that Newfoundland and Labrador will now be
powered by 98 per cent clean, renewable energy; a leader, Mr. Speaker, in North
America.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of points I would like to
make. I remember way, way back first when I came into the House, the House
Leader of the government at the time said: One of the worst things about the
House of Assembly is Hansard. Mr. Speaker, for those in TV land, Hansard is the
thing that records everything that is said in this House. He was joking with me,
of course, but Hansard is very important because it reminds members of what they
have said through the years.
Mr. Speaker, it is always very important, it helps you build your case. I
suggest to other members here in the House of Assembly, they should always keep
Hansard in mind when they are up talking and making their cases because in some
cases it will help support you, but in some cases, Mr. Speaker, it will go back
to bite you right on the rear pretty hard. I warn members, when they say what
they say I hope they mean it. Whether they are sitting on that side of the House
or whether on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, let's hope that they stay to
their word.
I mentioned earlier, Mr. Speaker and again, this came from Hansard. Mr.
Speaker, to tell you how far this party has gone back on the Holyrood issue; I
am here now looking at a petition that was brought forward just before I came to
the House by a then member of the PC Opposition. It was quite clear, Mr.
Speaker, and he went on to say how much Newfoundland and Labrador raised its
electricity rates at the time. The reason it raised the rates was to offset the
cost of Bunker C fuel, Mr. Speaker, to produce electricity at Holyrood. Those
were the reasons that the increase was happening throughout, Mr. Speaker, was
because of the cost of Bunker C fuel. That is why, and continues to be the case,
that every time we get a blip in the oil market, then obviously the rates go up.
Mr. Speaker, that was a petition that was presented back in 2003 to lay that
out.
Mr. Speaker, a former member of the House, who is now a federal MP, was the
Leader of the Third Party who has moved on to greener pastures, I might add
is a big supporter of this. The former Leader of the Third Party, the NDP, who
is now a federal member, supports this wholeheartedly and has been unrelenting
in his support for this, Mr. Speaker. In 2004, he was in this House of Assembly
and these are the types of questions that the member from the Third Party was
asking then.
The Third Party and their policy at the time was reflected in these
questions. Mr. Harris is the gentleman's name and represented Signal Hill
Quidi Vidi. How ironic, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Third Party today being
totally against it, representing the same party when we have here
AN HON. MEMBER: The same district.
MR. FRENCH: The same district. When we have here, the member representing
the same district who was the leader at the time in total support of Muskrat
Falls and these were the types of questions he was posing at the time, Mr.
Speaker.
He was concerned. The generating station at Holyrood is in the top five of
ten polluters in Canada in its release of particulate matter into the atmosphere
causing environmental damage. Serious concerns for him at the time were heath
concerns because he was seeing and hearing about this particulate matter.
He said: Why will ministers not order that scrubbers be installed in
Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro and generating units? Well, Mr. Speaker, that
was the member opposite of the day. You are not going to believe who was
answering the questions at that time. It was not the Third Party I think it
was Fourth Party. There is another person way over there, way down on the end,
and he was responding to the questions.
Mr. Speaker, the gentleman who left here and now, in this response, he was
very concerned. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, and I would find it hard to imagine that
the hon. member, when the vote comes in this House on Muskrat Falls, that he
will not be able to stand and support it based on the responses to the questions
of the day from the Third Party who supported it.
I will be looking forward to that vote because I know in his heart of hearts,
Mr. Speaker, he is an environmentalist a true one. He represented the
environment very well when he was on this side of the House. I certainly hope he
represents and thinks about the environment again now that he is on that side of
the House. I really and truly believe he does.
Mr. Speaker, this is from in December of 2009 there was a Ministerial
Statement and the Ministerial Statement was from the Premier of the day. The
Premier of the day was very clear that significant steps had to be taken to
reduce emissions from the Holyrood Generating Station. Mr. Speaker, she was not
the only one who was concerned. Mr. Speaker, it went on.
The Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi spoke to it. She had some concerns as
well, but the best, Mr. Speaker, of all came from the Leader of the Third Party.
This was December 16, 2009, not that long ago. It is not like you were thinking
one way back then and you have changed your mind now on environmental controls
and emissions in Holyrood.
At the time, referring to the Holyrood generating station, this is what she
said, "While I know there has been some impact on that" the Holyrood
Generating Station because of some wind farms, because of Central
Newfoundland, and on the Burin Peninsula, "we should be more proactive with
regard to getting rid completely of the Holyrood Generating Station."
That is, Mr. Speaker, what the Leader of the Third Party was unequivocally
supporting: getting rid of the Holyrood Generating Station. Mr. Speaker, it was
not that long ago they were up there, a big protest. They were up there with
cans of orange drink and they were up there running around the end of the road.
I did not know what was going on up there.
Mr. Speaker, I mentioned earlier, this was a little odd for me, and rightly
so. In 2007, Mr. Speaker, I presented a petition in this House with some 5,000
signatures on it to get rid of Holyrood. It is not often you see somebody in
government presenting a petition to your government. It is unheard of in a lot
of ways, but it happens more so when the people who you sit with in your caucus
and in your government really believe in what you stand for. Mr. Speaker, this
was a party who stood for cleaning up Holyrood for a long, long time. I know
because I was there when we were in Opposition, Mr. Speaker, and I am here
today. I am very proud of the way people responded.
Mr. Speaker, here is the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair on June 1,
2010, not that long ago. Here is what was said June 1, 2010 when the Member for
Cartwright L'Anse au Clair, like sometimes only she can do with her theatrics,
stood up with great pleasure and she started with, "What is the plan for
Holyrood? Are you going to live up to the commitments you made in the Energy
Plan?" Mr. Speaker, that is what she asked the Premier in 2010.
Now, Mr. Speaker, the important
part is how the Premier responded to that.
This is what the Premier said, "In terms of commitments that we have made to the
people of the Province, including the people who live in the area of Holyrood
generating facility, Mr. Speaker, we will live up to our commitment," and get
rid of Holyrood generating station.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FRENCH: Now, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of people oh, my God,
I have another who support this: Dean MacDonald a former Liberal candidate,
I suppose he was, he was playing with it for a while; Jack Harris; labour it
would be interesting to ask the Third Party where labour stands on this.
Apparently they captivate the labour industry in this Province, Mr. Speaker. I
do not know about that. I have spoken to an awful lot of people who are working
in trades, Mr. Speaker, and are very much in support of this project. Jack
Layton, Bob Rae, Tom Mulcair; Yvonne Jones, Mr. Speaker, supports this project;
a former Premier, Mr. Speaker, supports this program.
MR. SPEAKER (Verge): Order, please!
I say to the member: it is quite all right to refer to other people who are
not sitting in the Legislature by name, but people who currently sit in the
Legislature, refer to them by their district, please.
MR. FRENCH: I apologize for that, Mr. Speaker; I realize that, but I was
tangled up with a whole list of names, and that is why hers came out: the Member
for Cartwright L