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!·!ay 19, 1977, Tat:Je 2958, Page 1 -- apb The House met at 10:00 a.m. Mr. Speaker, in the Chair . • 11R. SPE:~"'ZER: Order, please! The hon. the Minister of Rural and Industrial Development. :1R. LUNDRIGAl~: Mr. Speaker, I just want to rise and sug~est a resolution that could be sent from the House to the senior citizens of our Province who last evening at St. Patrick's Mercy Home put on a • display of handicraft where eight of the homes - six in St.

John's, one ~~e Pentecostal Horne in Clarke's Beach, another the Harbour Lodge in Carbonear - displayed 546 items of handicraft, I believe representing some 200 participants, ranging in age from senior citizens of the younger group to people as old as in their nineties. It was one of the more moving experiences that I have had, along with the ~1inister of Health and Recreation and Rehabilitation. The particular contest was the third in a row sponsored by the War &uputees of Canada, the Ne•,.,foundland Branch, and organized by a Miss Nancy Night, who was ~ore or less the co-ordinator, a social worker at St.

Luke's Anglican Home. I thought it was worth mentioning, ~~- Speaker, because the display represented, really, almost the epitome of the history of our Province, with 546 works of art. That is a skill and represented a sort of a depth of skill that is being regenerated and reborn in our Province today. But certainly, the younger generations and the young family people still have a long way to go to ~atch the skills and the efforts of the senior citizens. )·lha t it did for ~e, Mr. Speaker, was to give me, really, a ra~iniscence of the history of our Province,when many of the skills and the artifacts --8281.

May 19, 1977, Tape 2953, Page 2 -- apb 1-Ltl.. LtmDRIGAN: and the handicrafts of our people were born of necessity. But it goes much beyond that because I believe what we saw last evening at St. Patrick's ~!ercy Horne was an indication of the kinds of innovativeness and inventiveness and imagination whic~ characterized and still characterizes the people of our Province. I was a little concerned that perhaps because of the lack of publicity a lot of our members did not know about the event, and I would like to encourage all the rne.'11bers of the Legislature, sometime today, to take five minutes and visit St.

Patrick's ~ercy Horne which is only, literally,five minutes from the Legislature, and have a look at some of the works of art of our senior citizens. As I say, there were 200 people who participated. There were 546 works of art ranging from every conceivable type of skill, leather, tatting, which is almost a rare skill by Newfoundland people today, all kinds of woollen works, netting and the kinds of things that are peculiar to our fishe~en, the kinds of robes and dresses, and I can go on and name literally dozens of indications of capabilitie"s displayed by the senior citizens.

It is a marvellous achieve.l'!lent. The l"lar Amputees of Canada, the Newfoundland Branch, deserve special commendation. It was a very, 'Tery entertaining event. The Royal Newfoundland Regiment Band participated last evening, and entertained the senior citizens for a couple of hours. Mr. John Carter was one of the co-ordinators as well, who deserves a word of co~uendation. Not our own 'John', t~e member of the :Wegislature, the P.R. ~1r. John Carter. So I was very pleased with it. I cO~l'!lend it to the Legislature and I would hope that hon. me.~bers will see fit to send --8282

-- - - ~ :.. . :-..:- 2"' ~ ~ay 19, lS77, Tap e 2958, ?age 3 -- apb ~L'. Lu"NDRIG.~..N : a let~e~ o: cc mrne~ca t io~ to the sponsors and especially some kind of ~, i~Cicacior. =ro m oar Legislat~=9 to ~~e :ig~t senio= cicize~'s ~omes,thac we as ~ewfoundlar.d Legislators appreciate the ki~cs · of ar~istic displays that ~ere puc o~ by our senio~ citizens. SOH E liON. ~tEHB.C:RS: Eear, hea=! . 8283

r I May 19, 1977, Tape 2959, Page 1 -- apb 11R. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. • HR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, 'fie on our side would wish to be associated with the words and the thoughts of the Minister of Rural Development in this case. I think ~hese people deserv·e this type of recognition and it is fitting that we in the Legislature do extend recognition to th~~ on this achievement.

I think ~t is proper a lette~ go forth from the Clerk or from Your Honour, ','lh i ch ever is the correct procedure, and certainly it is entirely appropriate that recognition of this sort be given to achievements of this sort. Because so often in this ' Province, Sir, we tend to concentrate only on so-called public things and ~~ese often are not as meaningful or as important to the fabric of life ~n this Province as is the sort of activity to which the minister referred in his remarks. Very much part of the warp and woof of life in this Province is the kind of traditional skills.

Handicrafts is in many ways a pretentious n~e. In many ways it is an imposition of an outside value on things which are not done as handicraft or art work; they are done because they are part of the fabric of our life. I know the minister would agree with me on this, that people in generations gone by, and still in many cases today, these - call th~~ what you want - these artifacts, these various types of manufacture are done because they are very much part of our cu1 ture, •1ery much part of our way of life.

Something as simple and yet as elegant as a heavy knit sweater, a fisherman's guernsey, or a fisherman's jersey - I do not know whether it refers to one or the other of the Channel Islands, Jersey and -· 6284

) May 19, 1977, Tape 2959, Page 2 -- apb MR. ROBERTS : Guernsey - but these •,.;e no•1 talk of as handicr~fts, but yet to me they are not something that was done for artistic purposes, they were done instead as part of our daily life. They evolved to meet a need and are very much part of ,,,hat Newfoundland has been and '"hat Ne•,.;foundland is and what we hope Newfoundland will be. One of the most useful programmes the minister's department has, to my way of thinking, is the programme to encourage these handicrafts. I like to think of them as part of our way of life. I ' think they are a very important part.

And I think it is right that the Legislature should recognize them at this time and in this way, Sir. SOME HON. HEHBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Hinister of Industrial and Rural Development. MR. LUNDRIGAN: Mr. Speaker, this seems like the morning for praise and congratulations, bouquets. The morning for bouquets. I want to rise to do some­ thing that I really intended to do yesterday, but because of the events and the drawn-out legislature before the Question Period I never had the opportunity.

For the last year or more, and maybe going back for the last twelve or fourteen years, I have had some association with the present personnel, and of course, in recent months and years, the present company called Breakwater Books, ~r. Clyde Rose, and the work of that particular organization in this Province. As members know, Breakwater Books is an indigenous Newfoundland Publishing Company, I believe maybe the first of its kind in the Province, maybe the first of its kind in the Atlantic region. 6285

t ;-· ... May 19, 1977, Tape 2959, Page 3 -- apb ~-1R. LUNDR!GA.J.'T: I want to rise, Mr. Speaker, and move a resolution to coro~end three facets of that particular opera·tion. Nwnber one, and the very outstanding achieve..rnent of 1-!r. Ray Guy in the - SO!-!E HON. l-1EMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. LUNDRIGA.J."\1: - in the sense that he Ivan the Stephen Leacock Award for the most outstanding humourous novel of the year, which is the most sought after and the most prestigious award that could be won by any Canadian writer.

Now no Newfoundlander or Labradorian needs be reminded of the skills of t·lr .Ray Guy, one of our greatest writers , I d·a u b t i f there i s a person who can read in the Province who is not aware of the skills and his talents. But I do not think anybody expected that he would reach at an early age, he is still a very young man, this level of attainment. I believe that the House should sent a resolution of support and praise to Mr. Guy for this very outstanding way. ! believe, he will be presented on July 23 in Orillia with a medal of commendation and sort of re•.vard for that particular achievement.

AN HON. 11E~·1BER: And a $1,500 cheque. l-!R. LUNDRIGAN: And a $1,500 cheque,as the hon. member indicates. Now as well, 11r. Speaker, I want to hope that the House can also pay commendation to Al Pittman and Pam Hall both of whcm 628B

t "ay 19, 1977 Tape no. 2960 Page 1 - ms }4'!'. Lundriear"~. • <n·oce and illustrated -the book called Dm·m t:v Ji=t Lon>!' s S t~.ge . I do not k..~ow hoc1 many !'!embers saw the book.. I purc~asecl. copies of the book for the Christl!l2S gifts that I - the fe<V I did sent· out -and I have been encouraging members ever since. If I had had the ti~e today I would have tried to have gotten copies for the members of the Legislature one way or another, because it is the first book that I have seen published by our ~;ewfoundland artists . . 'IN RON. ~YllE": lmat is it called? MR..

LUND RIGA.\!: Down Bv Jim Long's Stage, it is called. It is published by our mvn ~e<vfoundland :trtists and our own Net.Tfoundland publishing company wh1ch illustrates and captures for the youngsters of our Province, the ch:Udren of our Province, the fisheries in a very illustrative manner. t-n-.at is the series of books the youngsters purchase, the American series? Ilr. Suess, is it? Dr.Suess and others. l.:rell, Dr. Suess has ::tot got a patch on Al ·Pittman. I just <•anted to indicate that, because this particular book is a credit to our Province.

I hope that the "inister of Education - I have talked with him on this - can find a <.;ay - and I am sure that rn..any of these sc...'lools have done it on their o<·m - but to find a way to get it into our cur:riculum. \,'hac it does is chat it takes the various fish of our Province, the sculpin and the codfish and all the rest of them and puc it into rhyme wit; the illustrations. -- .... That '>oak •~on the best illustrated book of Canada, children's b~ok of ran ada. .And it is a credit, an absolute credit.

I say this "ith no poli:ical mot:ivation at all, !,ut I do feel that it is a big, 11i? step towards capturing for ou:r. youngsters something whic; is very akin to the culture of our Province. ~~cl I ho?e that that particular 'Jock does find its •.-ay into e"ery school and into the 1-tands o£ every child in our ?rovince, T bo?e t~ey co~e cut ~·:ith a c!oze!'!. i;ooks suc!1 as th1s. And I hoae Dr. Suess with all of his talents finds the sales steadily declining in this ?ro0"nce • . 8287

~'ay 19, 1977 VJ:I. SPEARE:t: '"'·· ?OBE"R.TS: Tape no . .2960 Page 2 - ms The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Yr. Speaker, it is a very real pleasure for ~e to say in behalf of all of us on this side, those present and those a~<ay for a moment or so, that ,,,e very much · agree •-rith the sentiments expressed by the minister. I think Pay Guy's achievement is particula:~:ly notet•or~hy and not: in an~·,ay taking away from the achievement of ~r. Pittman and the lady- ~c:~:s. Hall, I believe her name is -who illustrated the Down Bv Jim Long's Stage book, which is a most interesting and a most enjoyable book.

VR. :-<"EA?.Y: he might - !':F.. ROBEP.TS : After getting congratulations from this House, Yes, I was going to go on to say that I read Ray Guy's colu~ every week,as I assume we all do. I enjoy it, sometimes a little more than others. I ~st admit that when my carcass is heing flayed my enjoyment is not as great perhaps as !•hen somebody else ts up in the firing line. But I ~10uld. think oext '"eek 's column would he particularly,interesting after ~r. r,uy has been so honoured hy the House.

But I believe, Sir, it is proper for the "'ouse to do these things, and I think t~at P.ay Guy 1 s achievement is a very great one, The Leacoc..i(. a••ard 1 I do not know if I would call it the most sought after award, in Canada. That is ~aybe a little pretentious 1 I 1;ould say to the minister. There are the C<Jverno!' General's awards and some others of some stature. But the Leacock a<•ard is ce-rtainly the outstanding at.;ard for huxrourists in Canada. There has never been a ~iewfoundlander who has won it.

The closest we ~ave ever co:r.e was that temporary ~~etdoundland, te!!!porary ::esicent of :Surgeo,until the tvhale •• ,as to,.,ed up and put in front of hJ.s ~oar as an expression of the feelings of the penple of Burgee, vr. Farley vawat , ,.,ho •..;on for his book '.ol!'itten about :'-le•,foundland, ":"'1e '3oat •. ,.,..,0 c·1ould ~lot n .oa~, r:.;hich is also a !narvelcus piec~ of comic reve lry . . 6288

~ay !9, "1977 Tape no. 2960 Page 3 - ms ~r. Rober~s. _aut ?~ y Guy,~~ile he has cer:ai~~ y t~'~n strips of hide o£f a nuznber of publ ic 1l!en in :h :i.s Province, "'a y Cu i· has, I thin k - anci -en jc? his Nritings ver:; :nuch - capture~ in many of ~ is piec .es a very reel part o~ ;.;hac life in thi.s ?rovince is all about . And he cer:aL,ly spea ks with eloquence and f)ass :ton and conviction, and I think that this recognit ion )y the teaccck Commitce ·e is entirely Ei tting. A.nd ! venture co say, vent:Jre to hope thac ic '"'ill not be the last a~~arc! ~h t.ch Pay Guy -,rill '..>i:\, either Eor his . hum ourous ·.:orks or for his <·Tork as an auchen: ic expression of a large

section of our ~e•.:foundland culture . . 8283

}~ay 19, l'l77 '!ape no. 2961 Page - ms !-!!?.. ROBERTS. _:Sreahrater Books cl,ese:rve our congratulations. Clyde Rose and his group have done a marvelous job. It is part of the renaissanc;e, yo .u kuor,r, the renaiss~ce of the creat:!.ve arts in Newfoundland; ravid Jllac:k-:rood' s pictures, the pic:tu res of Christopher Pratt and his l-Tife:, ~ary Pratt, all of the other ~rtists who have expressed and are e.xpressing with conviction and with eloquence and with passion and 'Nith belief r.rhat they see in Ne,.,.foundland and Labrador and ~Jhat they want in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I think ~re ought to do more to encourage them. I would like to see an arts council. I think that was an e:x:cellent suggestion, and unfortunately it got torpedoed in the intergovernmental rivalries and in petty bickering, but it is an idea that aught to be revived. I would like to see some go .venunent ll!Oney mad .e available for the support of the arts in this '!'rovince, the creative arts, the visual arts and the plastic arts .md the g.raph:!.c arts. The $300,000 vre put iuto The Norma and G1advs ,Yr.

Speaker - I do not want to get into that particular controversy now- but that sum of money if put into an arts co~::ncil v>ould, I think, pay far greater boons and far greater benefits for the people of this Province • . So I do feel, Sir, that the Rouse - it is •rith real pleasure that I support the resolution, and I ~~auld hope that the government ~Jill have perhaps an opportunity to debate it in due course,that the government will reconsider their refusal to have an art ·s council, and that we TJ:ill see an arts council set up, given at least !!linimal funding.

If '-'e can find a ".alf a million dollars, "hatever it is, f.or The Non.a and G1 advs , we can certainly find a couple of hundred thousand dollars to make it possible for people to express themselves and to express •.rhat is a very real part of our culture, ~ir. 8230 •

...---- ~- ---:-or---- :-!ay 19, 1977 Tape no. 2961 Page 2 - :r.s ~~. SPEAAER: Statements by ~inisters. The hon . "iniste:- of !ourisc. ~~. RIC~Y: ~r. Speaker, ~ossibly I should - I gu ess I do need leave cf che :!ouse ::o :::ove a resolucion ari.s i:'lg out of yes ter day's tebate on 6e Terra Yova ~;ac ional golf cou:-se. !.f hon. ~e~ers agree? :'!t. SPEAKER: SO~ RON. "!:}(BEl'S: ~ •• SPE:A..~!l: ~. SIC!<E'!: Does the hon. gentleean ~av e leave? A!;reed . Agreed. Yr. Speaket", ! vish to :nove the Eollowing reso lution , se -conded ')y :ny hon. friend :he cen:ber for 7e:r--a ~!ov a (~'!". ~ush) .

WHEREAS ~!r.

John Rod ri 6Ue:t, :-t"DP ~en:ber of Parlia:nen t for Nickel Belt , Ontario made statements :.1hicil ·•ere i~~ult~,g and er:-oneous before the Indian and ~or t~er:'l A f~airs Sta nd ing Committee in respect to the construction of a ~ol : cou rse in tile 'ler:-a ~!o-ra National ?ark; AliD I~E'PEMi ~·r . ~od ri guez sou~ht to put a c:ot:!.cn before the Indi an and No rther:l Ai Eair s Standin F' Co!:!:t!it::ee to t'e duce the amount allocated fo r the construct ion of the !et'!'a )!ova :-lacional gol: course :rom S i .!a l".ill:.cn co the no!rlnal amount of Sl: ~ND ~~~AS outside the ~ouse of C~ ons ~{r .

Rod rigcez sugzested to t>epresentacives of t!le press tbac the Ter ra ~ov a ~ational ?ark golf course was being const=ucted on land own ed by Provincial Cabinet ~!iaistet's; .\.';n :~?EAS these state~r.encs a:-e ::ontaop~~ous and ~sul~in~ to~ards this Provinc e and t~e allegations co land Owuershi~ are false and without foun da cioc; BE I! ~~SOLrrn chat t~is Fouse recorc a stron~ di sa??ro•tal of c~e accecpt "bv "r. ?oc:-iguez :o h:-eac h an agreer::er.t oeco;.;een the Gove!":lr.:ent of Canada and the Govern=-enc of chis ?rovi::ce , anc chis :tous e ::ec;uests ~r. ?o<! riguez co wichcra~o~ these oif end:!.n g s catetre:~ts, . 8291

!-!ay 19, 19 77 T~p e no. 2961 Page 3 - :llS ~' :: . Hickev. and chat he make an uoquali: i~d apo lo gy to the 9eop le of thi s ?::ov i:tc .e; BE IT Ftt""~" :U:SOL \'ED, :•:-. ~peakar, ~hat a copv cf th is resolut ion be sent co Ian ~at~on, C~airman of c!:e Indian and ~lorthern A::airs Stand ing Comcl cc ee oi :he Souse of Co mmons. SOME HIJN • ~IEYBE l!S : ~. SPE,i.KE!!.: Rear, he ar~ Th e hen. $en cleman asked leave co :r.o•;e ::he resolution, and I i)resume now that I would ask is the ~ouse ready for th e question? Th e ho n. ~entleman for !e r'a No va. Y.R.

Lt::Sii: It giv es tl'!e ce rtai nly §reac pleasure to second the motion, ~ r. Sp eaker, put for~ard by the hon. ~iniste!" of '!:"ourisc and certainl;r ! thi:lk t!le re col!'.es a time when ;:he ~et <~tounc!land Legisla ture a."ld the meelbers o: the :-=e• ;i' o~: nd lan d Legislature muse take a s cand on these cype of :-e t:~a rks orade ?y a gentleman ·--ho seetns co be o. ui~e unfar.dliar ~ ::.h ~: e~foundland, -.:it h its neecs as .:.S illu strated by :~:an y of the statecents that 1 hav e read ~d .th respect co this is sue, th e Terra ~!o va :ia t1onal ~ a:: k go lf cou rse. Indeed . czsz

~----- Xay 19, 1977 Tape 2962 PK - 1 ~1r. Lush: it seems as though the member does not know when the park sta~tad. Every ne~s press release I read says th~t the golf course was included in the 1972 agreement which created Terra l'lova National Park. Of course, all hon. members know that Terra Nova l'l~tional Park was created long before that time.

And when you get people making public fi~ures, Federal M.P.s making statements of this nature, sta~ements which are erroneous, cont~ptuous and insidious, invidious, I think it is time that we, th~t this House let these people knoll what kind of people we are, that we will s t~nd up for Newfoundland and not let this kind of nonsense take place. Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I second the motion. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for La2oile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I feel that it is a shame that this House has to dignify remarks - AN RON. ML.'1BER: Hear, hear! ~!R. NEARY: - like the kind made by Hr.

Rodriguez. &'l' RON. XEMBER: Hear, hear! ~R. NEARY: I think, Sir, we are just merely giving notoriety to the. han. gentleman - MR. SMALL(·;oon: And lowering ourselves. MR. NEARY: And lowering , yes lowering ourselves in recognizing the statements.

Obviously what the gentleman was trying to do was trying to point out that in these days of high unemployment, mass unemployment and so forth that here you had the Government of Canada building golf courses in Newfoundland, and, you knml, there might be a certain amount of sympathy and support for tha~ kind of thinking that the money probably could be better spent in other ways. There are people probably in this han.

House who Hould agree that instead of building golf courses so that the wives of millionaries and rich and well-to-do people an~ high cucky- ,~ucks cail go out and spent their leisure tilile golfing - "8293

:fay 19, 1977 Tape 2962 PK - 2 A..'l R0::-1. ~1BER: That is over sympathy. ~!R. NEARY : Hell, :!r. - SO~!E HO~. ~GE%: Oh, oh: 1-!R. NEARY: Hell, Mr. Speaker, I think, that is the point the hen. gentleman Nas trying to ~aka, Xr. Rodriguez. But in so doing he - in so doing, Sir, the gentle!llan has, probably insulted certain people in this Province. I really think that all He are doing is just giving his statement a little credibility, adding a little notoriety to what he had said, but I suppose in one sense we have to do it. We cannot let these things go on.

He cannot have insults flung at us from Parliament Hill,I suppose,without some recognition. I feel it would have been better, Sir, if we had taken him to task outside the House rather than giving him the recognition that we are giving him in this han. House. MR.. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Twillingate. MR. SMALLWOOD: ~1r. Speaker, I am going to vote for the resolution, though I regret the fact that it is before us and that we are asked to voce on it.

I am going co vote for it, "tf1ough I deprecate it. ~e sovereign Legislature of a province of Canada· passing a resolution condemning some punk~ ~t. is beneath our dignity way below us; we are lowering ourselves. The Prime Ninister of Canada has answered hi::n. That is enough answer, is it not? The issue is not the golf course. That is not the issue. lfuo ::,ut a fool would oppose putting a , golf course in a great national park? Who but a fool '~ould oppose that? It is right that we should have the golf course. Anything else that any national park has any-where in Canada,He should have it also.

That is not the issue. The issue is whether this- sovereign Legislature of a sovereign Province will solemnly pass a resolution condemning a punk - Ac'l RON. ~!E·!BER: ~!R. S~!ALUIOOD: It is all wrong. It is all wrong, but I will vote for it, I am sorry the minister introduced it. And if he and my colleague here, -· 82S4

~ay 19, 1977 Ta9e 296 2 PK - 3 Mr. SJ;IIallwood: my seatmate, if they can agree that this is our sentiment and withdra.~~ the reso1uticm and leave it to the Prime Minister, who has already answered him, the Prime Minister of Canada, I mean. MR. SPEAKER: debate. If the han. minister speaks now he closes the SOME HON. MEMB .ERS: Oh, oh: MR. LUNDRIGAN: I did not understand it to be a debate but I would just like to say one word.

First of all, I do believe that we have t.o send some kind of an indication to the particular Committee, the Indian and Northern Affairs Committee,of the concern of the Legislature because the remarks were not specifically refetting to only the National Park; they were very specifically implicating by direct co~ent members of th!s Le2islature reflecting on members of the Legislature,making charges against members of the Legislature. It is an unusual kind of behaviour for a member from another jurisdiction to be reflecting on .:~embers of our jurisdiction. 8295

~!ay 19 ,1977 Tape 2963 A ... 'l-1 ~. LT.J"NDRIGA.'I: I tend to agree,however,~hat we have to be a bit careful that «e do not over-react to John Rodriguez. John Rodriguez ~,;hom I knm• very well is give:1. to a lot of h·n>erbola.

I ?elieve and I hope whe:1. we ~et the res~onse back we ''ill find from l1r. \olatson that this was the nature of his !'!!marks, that he got carried a bit away '"ith his philosophical concerns for spending on issues such as a golf course, for he is a v~ry strong ~IDP 'er from )lickel Belt. but I do believe~ and I have to support the resolution the minister is proposing, seconded by the member for Terra Nova 1that we cannot allow Joh:1.

Rodriguez or anybody else in another jurisdiction to take pot-shots, make changes within the seclusion and the security of a committee of the legislature of the House of Co~ons,against ~embers of this legislation without defending ourselves. If ~•e allow that to go unchallenged I think we are almost pleading guilty and this is why we have to send off the resolution.

I believe the ~~airman of the .committee will treat it very seriously, I hope our own members of parliament - did I hear the minister say that our members of parliament •Hill be contacted on it~ I think they will treat it seriously because this sort of thing does nothing for national unity. . We have a Province that is the newest Province but we cannot John Rodriguez or anybody else from the Pri~e ~inister do~~ to make this kind of charge without defending ourselves. ~. SPEA.>a:R: The hon.minister. ~!R. l10RGA...'I: ~!r. Spea.l{.er, just a brief comment.

I have a little concern as ·.o1ell that we are recognizing a rn.an ~-rho is not too outstanding as a parliamentarian in this country, a man by the name of Hr. Rodriguez. What I Nould like to see, ~~r. Speaker, if the House would go along with this, is ~aybe not for the Fouse to recognize ~im and to more or less make him ~ore than what he stonds oct to be now ac:ross the count=y, :his ~, is to ha.'t7e my coll2a~ue -szs£

• l·!.ay 19 ,1977 1\ape 1963 .U: -2 MR. MORGA.'t: the minister and rrry good friend from the Terra ~Tova district, these two gentlemen, to travel to Ottawa and to ask to appear before the comnittee where ~r. Rodriguez made his statement and to have the gentleman put fonrard the views 11ith regards to the situation. And I would say to go further is to have the committee ' then, when it is proven by 1liY colleague the ~nister of Tourism that the stat·emen~ I!'.a:de by :-!r. Rodriguez were incorrect,therefore have the committee then have Hr.

Rodrtguez apologize. in fact to this government and to the committ ·ee that he is now serving on. ~. SPFA.'CEt!. : Ron. Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROB:ER!S: Hr. Speaker, I ~like everybody else who spoke and did not intend to speak - and I will not be very long- but I mean really the suggestion put forward by tae Minister of Transportation is not to just make a mountain out of a molehill, it is .to make the Rocky Mountains out of a pimplP. I am not calling 1-!r. Rodriguez a pil!lple .

He is obviously a member of parliament who perhaps shoo.ts fret:! the lip, an affliction not confined to the members· of parliament, it is not something that is unknown to members of legislat'Ures. ~~. Rodrtguez made some statements - and I am not so lll'Ucb concerned about the golf course thing as I am about the allegations ~hat ministers 01med land . . on which the g.olf course at Sandringham is to be built.

And Mr. 1odriguez did not make anything more specific than that -· ·-. ·- and I think it is proper that •.;e l:'a? him on the knu .ckles although I do feel very ~ch that the point made by the gentleman from 7willingate has some me~it, Indeed I had already formed the intent earlier this dav to have a •,;ol:'d privately •,;ith "our Honour to make some suggestions about this - not just this question but about this entire matter. You know,here it is ten thirty and w·e have ta..l.:.en up half an hour 1•ith matters that, you knm•, we are in grave danger of becoming an overgrown parish council · 82S7

r :lay 19 ,1977 Ta!le 2963 M!- 3 ~. ROBERTS: if <Je pass '!:'esolutions i!l here taking note of everything - ~. S~·!ALU700!l : 'ffi.. 3.03ETIS: "R. S~lALLf<OOD : :·!!1.. ROBERTS: -Are we overgrown? l.rell I think ~;e are overgrown. We must not flatter ourselves. I think fifty-one members is overgrown, I would say :a my friend from Twillingate. Nonetheless the t!lought is a serious one. tv .~ have to be very careful that we do not take note of everyt!ling and thus take note of nothing.

But nonetheless, I you know ~~is particular gentleman made some remarks that are offensive and they are unsubstantiated and I think it proper we ought to rap him .But I do not think for a minute it is necessary- I mean,if the Minister of Tourism wants to go to Ottawa let him go; even if he wants to come back let him come back. But I do oat think for a moment it is necessary to ·send ~'1e ~inister of Tourisl!l up, , 'llhy dignify :1r. Rodriguez? Let us just rap him on the knuckles, let him kno~~ that 1ve think I am sorry - ~!R. HICKEY: And lose a golf course? ~!R.

ROBERTS: We are not going to lose a golf co'..lrse because of anything John Rodrig'..lez says, There is an agreement becween- MR.. MORGA.'!: Why take e chance? ~. ROBERTS: The ~!inister of Tourism :-tay not- I am sorry, the ~inister of Transportation cay not be aware of it but there is an agreement between the government of this Province and the Government of Canada under <·rhich the Qovernment of Canada have undertaken to build this golf course. ~!R. ~TL\RY: It is not going to be put in Gander, ~~.

ROBERTS: ~o,it is going to- :·!R. s~~L'.-IOOD: The Prime ~linister gave a statement - ~rq-· S~03E:\.TS: A.r-~d then as my frier .d from T~.;illingate sa;1s . 8298

~<.AY 19, 1977 Tape 2963 AR-4 ~- ROBERTS: the ?rime l'!inister, the ?.ight Han. Pierre Elliot Trudeau, who has a little ~ore influence for~unately on the affairs of this country than does "r. John Rodriguez ~'.?. , ~'lic k el Belt, the Pri:rre 'hnister has laid the ghost and put the ~4tter at rest. 8293 -.-. ~ . ..,

• ~!ay 19, 1977 Tape 2964 PK - 1 l1r. Roberts: see I am concerned about is making sure that l1r. Rodriguez be rapped on ~he knuckles. I do not ~hink that we should get ....__ carried aTHay, _I:tdeed, I think, -we have spent too wuch time noTH on a t"o-bit statement by a gentleman who at least in this respect has been playing second or third or fourth class politics. I think '"'e ought to adopt the resolL!tion>send it off and if ~lr. Rodrig~ez has something more to say we will deal with him. But the thought of going off to Otta<·7a and making an issue of it before a committee, that is just nonsense.

If we are going to appear before a committees in Ottawa we can take more substantive and substantial issues than that, Sir, and that is something I would be for. MR.. SPEAKER: If the hon. oinister speaks now he closes the debate. ~. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I did not anticipate sparking such debate, but however I guess that is the situation. I sU!ply want to say before the debate closes, Mr. Speaker, that with some degree of hesitancy I brought in this resolution not only because of l1r.

Rodriguez in terms of •.rhat he said about the golf ·course or Cabinet ministers and land, although that is serious, and I also unciers tand now, but I do not have verification yet, that the gentleman is so irresponsible that he named - MR. MORGA..'I: He named ministers. :ffi. HICK........Y: certain people including myself. Now I have not a rock much less a bit of soil in the Terra ~ova ~rea or the Sandri~gh~ area. It is an absolute untruth ,.;hich goes to show how irresponsible this gentleman is. However, ~!r. - ~!R. ROBERTS: I wonld like tr'l know where he got his information. :fR. SICKEY: Rm.reve1:, ~-!:r.

Speaker. I think th2t ~on. members are missing one rather important point. ~(y l!!ain :-eason and my strong belief in bringing this resolution in is not to give credence or recognition to a nobod~r or a somebody who thinks ;,e is - or a nobody ,.,no thinks he is a someboC.y, let us ;JUt it that way - or 83<)0

------ -J -- ~lay 19, 1977 Tape 2964 PK - 2 :tr. Hickey: somebody "he is irresponsible enough to :::.ake statements ..,ithou .t checking them. Not that at all, Mr. Speaker, but rather the statements that this gentleman ma kes about th~ Province. ~e is so ill- and uninfomed. And it seems that w·hen ?eople, as ~•e say upalong, continue to make those sta~ements about this Province as if it ._,here in Outer ~!ongolia, 1o1e just sit idly by and laugh at it. Mr.

Speaker, as Minister of Tourism 1-1ho is outside of this Province quite a bit trying to promote this Province and to correct once and for all the fallacies and the mvths about th<> stupid Ne..,foundland jokes and all the rest about this Province, I am not prepared to sit QY and see someone like Mr. Rodriguez stature, and he has stature -- 1o1e may not agree 1-1ith his irresponsibility, but he is a member of Parliament, Mr. Speaker, and he is courted and reported by the national press. We are not giving him recognition. The national press, the national media has given him recognition.

Al.~ HON. ~!D!BER: He is given more no~-1. XR. HICKEY: And I say so be it, ~lr. Speaker, let us give h:izl more, but let us she" the gentleman for 1o1hat he is. show this Province for ~hat it is. And let us SO~ffi HON. ~~ERS: Hear, hear! AN HON. MD!EER: Carried. HR. SPEAKER: Is the House ready for the question? Those in favour "Aye", contrary "Nay", carried. PRESENTI:lG PETITIONS HR. SEEAKER: The hon. member for Harbour Grace. MR. H. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, I ~Jould like to present a petition signed by some 700 voters or t~~payers from the town of Cpper Island Cove.

Locking over this ~etition, Sir, I kno1o1 each and every_one of these people's signatures personally and I am sure, Sir, the t they are sincere in asking that a watar systam be installed in Upper Island Cove. -· 83'~:1

~!ay 19, 19 i7 Ta?i! 2964 ?!< - 3 Mr. H. Younst: it is a la,rge co=unit:y. Probably if this had been pushed they could hav .e ha<i in the area about 2,500 names but I am sure, Sir, 700 names is a clear indication af the sincerity of the people, and the support and the d~~d for a watrlr system in the tm:rn. I could probabl:y- say it has been a neglect .of the past administration, but I feel, Sir, that this administration should have some responsibility in seeing that ~he town of Opper Island Cove has a water supply. I ask t:he ·minister or those cGncerned to give every consideration t:o this, Sir.

I feel personally that after twenty-five years of looking after the faithful departed, I feel it is tii:J.e for me to bucy some water pi?e up in Upper Island Cove. I ask that this petition be placed on t:he table of the Eo use and forwarded to the depart!llent to which it rel~tes. -· 83 q2

May 19' 1977 MR. SPEA..'a:R: ~. NEA .~Y: MR. NOLAN: MR. N""t.ARY: .. Tape IlO. 2965 Page 1 - ms The hon. member for LaPoile. Mr. Speakar, I - Mr. Speaker, may I speak to this petition? Oh, go ahead. MR. SPE.~~R: w~en the hon. member rose to speak I thought it was to this petition, not to present another petition. If he is agreeabla, then the han. member for c::mception Bay South may speak. MR. NEARY: I do have a petit ion to present but I want to speak to this first. I will yield to my hon. friend. I will speak after. MR. NOLAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank our friend from LaPoile.

Obviously I rise to support the prayer of the petition as submitted by our hon. friend opposite. When you have from the community of Upper Island Cove a request in the form of a petition containing some 700 names to provide a water system, again we get to something that is very basic. They are not looking for any luxu~y item.

It is rather unfortunate somet~es that those who have pavement, and water flowing into their homes for years and years,become forgetful all taooften of the fact that there are many of o~r fellow citizens who do not have the basic amenities that we have all come to accept, I suppose, for years and years in some instances, and so it is that in spite of the fact that we hear about various cutbacks and restrictions of one kind or another that here we have these residents out there who have been taxpayers for many, many years with a very real and a very legitimate need.

And so I hope chat the ~~nister of Municipal Affairs in conjunction with the council in the area will attempt to - he may not be able to do it all in one year. No one is suggesting that to him. But maybe it is a good time to at least start to do something in chis regard. I know my friend opposite,from Upper Island Cove originally, I believe, can certainly understand what I am talking about maybe a heck of a lot more than I do in fact. But here we are looking ac a very basic necessity where if you do not have the system such as the one as requested in the petition it has a real effect on the family.

I have kno'Nn peop+e over the years quite well •ho have had to go and - -· 83()3

., I. r ~y 19' 1977 Tape no. 2965 Page 2 - ms Mr. Nolan. you see, we become so far removed from some of the problems of the people that we all represent. Although I am not the member for the district referred t~ here, nevertheless it is the responsibility of all members of the Rouse of Assembly to represent not only their district but the people of the Province.

And, therefore, it is time we realized t~~t the peoole of Upper Island Cove, many of whom, I suppose, have to go to wells that are dried up in the Summer, cutting through the ice in the - . well in the Winter to t.y to get - the women especially in many instances havinz to carrv water. And so I hooe that the prayer of this petition will receive very active and sympathetic report.

The 700 names on that petition should be assured now that their request in the prayer of the petition is not merely a formality. that we go through in this House, but is a genuine representation on their behalf by the member for their area that we all have to pay attention to.And wherever it is economical and feasible at all, we have to make every effort to see that the prayer of this petition is recognized and acted upon. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for LaPoile. MR. ~Y: Mr. Speaker, I just want to take a moment to support the prayer of the petition, Sir, because I feel, Mr.

Spe~~er, that at one time in my career that I represented a large·· number of the citizens of Upper Island Cove. There was a time when we had over close to 400, over 350 men working in the mines on Bell Island from Upper Island Cove. And now the han. gentleman indicated the other day that they are now starting - or the Minister of Rural Development, I believe it was, indicated that his people in Upper Island Cove are now switching back to the fishery again.

Traditionally chat was their occupation before they came :o 3ell Island. 3ut they are al~ays hard-working citizens, Sir, and chey are very fine people, and they deserve a water system in that co=unity. At the present c·il!le they are carryi~g .· 83 1;4

, May 19 , l9i7 Tape no. 2965 Page 3 - ms !'!r. ~earv . water iil bu .ckets, and in the backs · of thei~ .: cars, and that is not good enough in this day and age, Sir, These people have made a 111ajor contributi "on to the economy of this ·Prorlnce. They paid their taxes; they worked hard; .they were fishermen first, farmers, some did a. little ho111e gardening .• I remember they used to leave Be11 Island tn the Fall of the year to go home and dig the potatoes. And so they are very fine people, Sir, and they deserve better than the treatment they are getting at the present time.

And I do hope that tl:ie prayer of the petition will be · answered in this current fiscal year. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Minister of Rural Development. MR.. tUNDRIGAN: Mr. Speaker, I just want to take one minute to support my ·colleague, the member for Harbour Grace in the presentation of this pet:it:ion. Being an Island Cover,and still an Island Cover- .I do not think you ever become anything less than an Island Cover, because I still have all my roots pretty wall in the community of Upper Island Cove, and get back very, very frequently - the 111e'll!ber for Bell Island brought back a lot of memories ·· 83 1 }5

• ~rP. !'f ~ ':\: ·-- I l-977 19~~ T.~~e '~o .. "'" l '·'? .. Uc!!''UG.\~!: uhic.h I nil! cc£:-ain fr~"' C ....

V'"\encin -o- OT' .. ·"''!! c.:=.uS·~ :""~ ~- fc to•te'".. -:h.~ .. 1~: -,r :'\"OCS ~"'~.: -:~-e. nember' s and "'' 'n ~<is:::: ~~ ::a • r:"-e c.or--u~l ... ::.- of r,...,~:"' !l=! a:-:rt ("l'"~' e .!.S ~ C')"""i':Uni cy :~at is c-nly ~Of..." :'eCP.rt.~ !.y eet:\.iaq in :"':" i:s rv ."!l t...~ :e::.ts Qf i~s :lro!il.e! i: :.rC" ',J ::P.~c , bP.c~us~ =c:-r :-!2.r"" ~'~Y ':" S .!;-~~ :li!!O,le thou~~t of rr-t ,e!" !sla!ld Cove !IS a •re~r s"'all little '=OW\1 "an d ~v';)e n rac~et' !.nsi~:a.i.:ic2.nc !.i :tle :ot.;n, ~en us~ th e oect'le 2.re very r,o dest, very :tnnr-le neo~le . !~~v !1:"'! !'..OC ~e t·1~-es ~\'ho lePC ~~e~ c -:evC'!..utions a.rC ~;ic !· '.U" a !.n t of fuss ,a s -2n ~-xa.~?le ,l-~ cau..~e ! ~·Qu.l d sc:1y cl":.s is c:-te fi:-s :: ~in~ •"t :,.et!ticr. has ~" er bee :: i)rese ru::&?C: :ro~ t~e cG~u:t!-:·t "'E .,e:- Iosl~:~c!

Cc "e ::ez -:~-,:-di:tlZ (v-a:e:-. :!ere is g co=\m"itv cf ~ ,5 '!~"~ r)eorle - a co~un.:.t: t\ t-~: ::~2 ·.o'!iY~ the ""!P.f'!i"e-r tells ~e .: ~l'lc: ~..ass:!.:< ~!e!!n re casas, 2,SCO ?eof)le-an-:: ~ ,501":' rec!'l le, Hr. ~oea! ·e!" , ~~o have sean S~!i"P.. of r:~e !"ou~ hes:: tiC":es _ ~~11 !slr..nC\ !.~0 Feonle :~"r':ec en aall rsler.c E=~ "!'le!' 1.s!a::t! ~~ve. T!'e~· t.:culd ler;ve on ')un.:av P..fcert"!oon. , the:; i.JOt.!l,-: CCC\~ ~cross Cnnce ~t.ion ~ev in s=ll boats . :'0 ''"! .\:) V!

They CB!Ile over from the ~lorth shore of Conc epcion 3ay, =os cl'' ""p er !,c;~e .nd Co 're. :'? . tr .. ~T;QIC..,~i : Yes. u~l!. g !oc oif t~e...., frc:~ i-4C"n-2- !s!.~.nc o•!e, !hey :oould come across in small bo ats to 3el1 Island, the y wol!ld ~m =~: 6r"'ul!h un t U. "it tur:!a y evening, chev ·-pu.lci lec..ve anc ,, ic~ e . ~d they :.1ould ~ e home less tha~ ?He~ :y -i ou r hours. :.-.. :lo~· "~""~e ··ho ~.;or!:eci :.:.~::. .. ~· coa.secuti.l re ::~~ :-s ~:t..: . !C'r:...,e~ ~=-a :~~ ~.i.~es O:'l ~el! lsln ~.d .!t'!.d lit.:!::-1.1!.? h'.L':C::reCs C"'f c~e -r-: ~=n~ t!-::'1~ _itt!.e CC1!1!::Ur.it~ ~.

Ar?:enti.a ~.-as ~n\ct.:.call;t ~onu ll!tE\c ·.:it~ ""~eo~le ::-or." l:~ ~er !slnn d C:cve ar..-i you cac. ;:c .1.r~unr. ~cv ::cnst=:zcc~('r .. .,..,....., :~r. H" ·~'! -::! :C' ~"~t! ici~e ['a: co At~ahas!.r..-"\ _ 1':~~ - ~cnCs . to t'""!ncc•JVP:-, :":"' ''~~_, York 1a.~~ . .,.;r-2re :1.~d \*:"U ;!~d ~ellnr;.s ::-or ~ ' .... ,nP.r ~sl.:Jr.r: "::-- ·;~ , v~rv . V'!'~t i~Custri('lttS .,.co':'l-e . :' y ~0- '! . '"t: ·'J:::P : .. \nC !"0;.---.i !:ed . -- 83'~6

• I "ay !9 , l?7i tane ;.!o. 2!1"''> ~~ · - 2 HR . LU:"I'~!9Ji : ~n~ skilled . Tr.ey can do anyc~i~? · • ."'O tnO t"rO tl ::IO :"":!i:l!! i..£ ;rot: :·'!l!'.t ou t co IJooe -r- Isl.:mc!

Cove atv! ••an:eci to =~cruic. a ...:o:-~: fo~cs to ?u!.!.C Chu :-ch.!ll Fa.lls , you litera.ll ca~ :·:.nd enou2h ro~o1"'1.!.e ch.e re rvith th~!. skills to ~o th~r; ·-:int! .of c:1i:1;. £very cc:"tceiva~le s~:.ill r;:,e \· ~~ve ir: :!"1!:!: CO""=!UI1i ty . ~!ot.: ::::e i);:oble...l"l :'..s :·lith c:~e~ a:-:c= ·.tit :l :>.11 ot us from that col!!!!lu.,~t-; is thP..t ··''? are 3. litcle ret:i::ent to 1(1ck u!J a fuss, =ybe ~oc so or~niz ed t<' !obey as y~u ;;ould see in so:n.e of out' co~u .nicies 2r:~ con sequentl y th~ ~~i.:!Cs t;-! \~oor cant issues chat e lot of c~~unic:ies ~?.ve been a~le to ~r"w ou= a.t~encion ~o hnve ~e e.:: somewha:::: subiugac ed a,:!C -fil!~er9'"!ci .

T:le Member tod .,.y c:hi!'.k ~a s -ioc.e a com.'l' .enO: .e!ille ceeci 0~1 -.rese ::c::.:\h e...~e i"!2!1H~S :of ') oc our oeonle Ero"' the co:'lr. .UDit:r to :.:-tc!icace i1ere is coT'i':nur.:. :-.., sOi'te ::~ ~ent ""' :niles f'!'o~ :~~a t:1e ·#a :""t.g c-:- c~v ;;lies , ~ ... i.c hout ;;aca-::- , .:-.r~~ a comrnunit:' ::ry c~e ·,;"?.y c!12.t is t' ~ l? : i, ~~"~l:t -l)v-e=l.·r -o;:,"'•Jl ,:at.e.d :,e-:ausf! ~c :.s r:o~ ·.~ i.:: a cove i: "'OU ti~nt an,.; . the --i ~st:-ribucion of ~ouse s is ve"":""..J, ver:' heev:..r.

I am ~oc goin~ co su z~ est :bat there is a ~aior heelt~ ~r.~~!~ 1--ut i: '.s cert.a~:-:lv ~ne o-f c~ e ~!"""::at e~-c :'1'2cess ·::.c:ie s ~-c.( . 1 i~..!n:-~ :t'.l! -ir is~~ -=, ~s ,.,~ :t~~~ e .,Tivat:e.:·:- as !-i ~ c ... "l..:k. LL co~varsations ~:lo~~ t:t•J r~~lvas ::--o ; -!~y :o ~~ ·:,co c=e3.t chis -:1.-t::2 -· ··~~~ ;s ~.-e"r: "eal oE sericus~~ss ~ecau~~ is s. -co:-t~u::.ity c:-:1c ~~s oroci1:C'S!l! ~ ... cr~:r:e!'t dous '\r:ount of f •. tealc'~ i:: n-u : ?t:nvir.ce P.nC ce -tai~l ~· t:e-sP. ~ N~$l t,e :'~5-..f"~Se :~~: c:1e !.'embe-r f-:-olt H.arbot :' 'tt"a ce ~:"o~~cts • ~~~ ~~·~::= • :-.e :tnr..

T.efT'I:Oe-:- :o:- !~ ... ~!l:.:v-n~e . ''!' .. CO:' ... \LL'.i"'t")l): ":-. ':"~:! :·.? -: , -:o:-aJ.l,. I Co ::nc. -,.,:-::.c:.;-=1!::! ::;e ~ePa ce t~~-~ :=t::~~eos f~c., ':..~-e ~r~sr.ncnc.:.C":"'t of :1'?Ci:~nr.s ·~\• t :::.P'=~ ·~.'::"'! C'ne flt tt ~"'O re~SO:tS ·~:f.\" ! io :":Of.f SUT'H'C :" C t~is n;tr t:i.

C\.lll!" -.P..t:il;!-('1,...5, ~-:'".~. ::?l.'1t ~ ·':l"l~ a "::~ .:a,t: :"li!:ny "e~s,-,,., ,l fT . .i.erv!s r.n-1 _;r-..,. -::~ :\ '1 . ;,:tr:_v ··a.,:'!=, ::" -c :· ·Dnt·' -t:'~.:. --,-:- .~- ~, s :.A•..!:tc.~ "!n .-:' ·~~~~ "'~"1-.:.:"" .ar..C •J...--:.c ·-:l:-'l.,"!.'! :...:e =~ :.e::~::. ~:"'r.- suopcr:ers of ""i ~e PnC :f·e. ;,v -::v :h; : t :.-e ~: i:-: f'tOl.i::cs. ?·!r:. "'lso . 83')7

'';tv !? , !.~77 ':A.oe ~~o . 29~~ '""' - 3 ''!! . s:' ALL '.""~0D : C'!! ca use !

S:l l:'!'OSe or t!l~ ~<'!-.ole o: c::e ?:-o vi r.ce c:~g o;-:e COt"':!L~i.t? :to t~ C ~hov e el! o:=:(\:-S fc t: ::te:.r ·.•i :, :c= ~:he!-:- 2rea : sen .se o; :,u. ~ou :- a..,c! :~eir ·:i :': is c;ta t ,re:7 sa..":le .,!r.c e. .'~.: i'i\O t':!~r. -~as<'n is n. -re:e~~ nce bv c:.e nenO er fo:: ~.a.?oile ('1'r . '"l! e:~ ·) ~.··~:..~ ~e s-ok·!: o: c~ e ~S?O""'l e tto:~~ over ::-c~ ~e!.l !sl~~ !! , ~o:.=-.., ')e ck frcr 3el l !!'!a::-{ :0 r:."e': !sl:t~-1 r.:>v '! anc '\e S'JJ!<eo• ·e::tlv ,'\...,et!.:i ed ~::a c to ~nclude !-!a ::-hour Crac e anc ! Ca-::~ooc a. r ;o.:: d ~~ . ~u \1 Y: Victoria .

I , .,. s:•.\L!_!:CI')D : - '1ict oria . Vicco ri "' ·va s <mot!:er ~re~t source of ~~ :-kP.rs on 3~1 ! !s l~n1 . ~r.d t~en ~is -:efe:- ence to t~P.~ ~o int b~ck to di?. chei :- :>oca toPs . I ~c re~i~de~ so :o:-ci;ly r,~f <1 qua i:tt !)ract ice the:-e used to he in electi on s :ret>.rs ~2 0, wil e:: a general elec:inn ••ns held , :>olli~ c!a? arr!v eci, c:: e party ,:>q~ir.sc ~•hc>'ll ic ~o:as :,eli~ ve rl t!':.a: t!le '7ote rs of V~c to~ia, Ca r bo~ea -::, =~r~~ r Grac e, Islw~c fove ~a so on r ·•era ::oi :t~ co vo te, c~e oa!': v t!w t •,!?.

S 2oi:l?. :o lo se :!;ei:- vo tes end eavo ured eV tr] ~i.i:!e, 1~ even~ elec: ::.on , co t.a ·re c!le boat: ;,ri :ll!'in~ che m Eroll' ~ell Island ':>ac '• :o vo te brea k cowr. ?ut!£ ·tn;- ~c=o ss c::e bav . ':any ar.d ::.anv :t ti:~e, "-= . Sroeak e:- - ''Jl. '7r: A ~' ·: '-las t!'\ttt c:h~ !'a r1 S:rl.c~? V'! . S"ALL'1Q0l): - :he (.o;:o .c 83' )8

r Yay 19, 1977 Tape ~o. 2967 EC - 1 ~!R. S}fALL\.;OO!:l: my;~eriously broke down. The engine gave out and the boat just wallowed around until about eight o'clock in ~he night, or at least, say, quarter to eight <vhen it -,.,as still tao late for the boat to reach land and enable the hardy mine workers to go ashore and cast their ballot against the party that some people suspected had caused the breakdo~~ of the boat. I could tell fifty stories,if there were ti~e, about the marvellous wit of the people of Island Cove.

The minister who just spoke - the minister from there - spoke of its being down underneath a hill. It is a cove,you might say, down in a valley ' and except by sea it is approached from the land down aver a steep hill. And the story is about a very portly politician, very stout and heavy and big and very portly who held a meeting there, and it was in the Spring of the year and there was still some snow on the ground, and a small horse and catamaran was employed to haul him after the meeting, haul him up over the hill. And the trouble was that there was only snow in patches along the road.

Every here and there the road was r absolutely bare. And they sat him down in this catamaran and about twenty-five or thirty men went up w~th him - they were supporters and when they would come to a bare spot they would all get down and help the little pony to haul the slide and this great politician up to more snow. And this <•ent on a number of times until finally - ~dW L~ the ~eantime, he sat back in grandeur smoking a cigar and these t~•enty-five or thirty Island Cove :nen were passing comments among themselves as though he were.deaf, as though he were nat there, as though he could not hear a sound.

They were passing their own comments among themselves abo•..1t how big he '"as and hov fat he was and ':lo« impossible it <vas for so small a horse to haul him uphill over this bare gravel. !inally they came to a long stretch of gravel, no snow for hundreds of feet,and they stopped. And the horse was blowing and they were blowing and they were passing comments, and one man finally said, ~~~.:'ell, bo: .. rs, the only thing I can see is let us gut him. Lee us gut him," he said, "and make him lighter and we might get him up!" ~ow I <.;auld like to be able to polish the story by saying '"ho the politician was.

He once occupied a very -· 83q9 ·.-·--·-·-- .. -

' t • I ' :-!ay 19, 1977 Tape No, 296 i EC - 2 MR. SHALL:WOD: important place in this House long before Confederation. The wittiest people, I suppose, that ~ewfoundland has eYer knotm - l'pper Island Cove. So let us give the~ t~e uater - 2nythi~g they want - for Isl~~d CovP., ~. SP!.-L'<ER: The han. Xinister of Xunicipal Affairs. ~. DINN: Mr.

Speaker, I am no~ally reluctant to get up and speak on a petition from any of the people in Newfoundland for "ater ~d/or sewer mainly because we have so many requests for water systems all around the Province,whether the place is incorporated or unincorporated,and certainly i:1 this day and age there should be no community in ~e,•foundland without a water system.

However, everybody knows-and I have said it several times it is one o-f the reasons 1vhy, I am relatively reluctant to get up on a petition - I have said several times we have only so much money per year for this kind of thing and the Province would have to virtually stop every- thing else to provide water systems to our people. \~e have some requests down in the department now, ~!r.

Speaker, that would total something like $225 million and that would pay for just the requests that we have in, the requests that we know of - ~at people who need water and sewer systems in the Province ·..;ho have not even sent in a request .. So the $225 million. if I had it this year 1vould ]?robably just result in next year getcing requests for another $100 million or $200 million. And this year, ~r.

Speaker, we are attempting to get water systems in more communities by asking the residents in the areas to pay a little tow,ards the installation of the system in chat we are asking the residents to pay for, especially with respect to new systems, that portion from the property line to the house rather than the policy lvhich •..;e had in previous years a f going to wit!:lin five feet of the house. And in this •..;ay, Mr.

Speaker, hopefully •.;e can get more water systems in this year,or at least more !.Tater systems sta::-ted t~is year. _.l_nd as I do not ~<."lOW ~•hich systems ;.rill 'oe approved ':>y governne~t this vear as yet because :•e do not have the total picture, I certainly hope tha: Upper Island Cove is one of the communities chat come cue ac the end of the pipe, and all the other requests will be looked after in the next 83i0

~'ay· 19, 1977 ~!R. DI~:_ All :w~. ;'DSER: , Tape :lo. 2967 f~w years. Thank you very :nuch. Hear, hear! . 8311 EC - 3

, May 19, 1977 MR.. SPEAKER : MR. J. WI~!SOR: Tape no. 2968 Page 1 - ms Are there any further petitions? The han. member for Fortune - Her~tage. Xr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of the people of Little Bay East in _ Fortune Bay. This petition is signed by 72 persons and chat I ~auld say is about all the persons of voting age in that community. The prayer of the petition is as follows: "We, the people concerned, hereby request that the government department responsible take immediate action in providing some form of -breakwater in the outer harbour

section of Little Bay East. Our basic problem has been related to government departments in the past with little results from any. In brief, however, we should say our pr~blem stems from flooding which occurs during storms or high tides. This results in heavy erosion especially of public roads adjacent to the shoreline. ~ny times great loss or damage co property has been ~~erienced by part-time fishermen while store owners experience excessive damage to !~erchindi;e ~ In even worse instances, families ha~e had to be evacuated from their homes for days.

Usually the worse storms occur in early Spring and seem to be having worse results each passing year. The shoreline is simply 'Hashing away instead of building up or holding on as it did in the past years ~hen fishermen had stages, wharves and their own crude breakwaters to help protect their property. Our appeal is our hope that someone will take interest and show that some concern is being developed.so that somethin~ will be done soon to rectify our problem." Now in supportin~ the prayer of that ·petition, I must say that I have had this petition for a little ·Jhile, and I have not presented it.

A certain amount of spade work had to be done in connection with it. There are a number of places in my district, Jacques Fontaine, LittleBay East, this one I am referring to now, English Harbour and Coomb's Cove, and there are ~ny others around the coast of Newfoundland experiencing much the same problem. we are not aware 8312

-L.-- ~ .May 19' 1977 Tape no. 2968 Page 2 - ms MR. J. w"'NSOR. if the tides are higher, are risi~g highe~ than they ever did befo~e, but it would certainly appear to be so, and the fishermen are saying so. Now this does not concern just one department. It is a federal responsibility in some communities, in another it might be municipal, and in another it could be Transportation and Communications.

I have had discussions •Nith all three of these departments - both provincial departments and the federal government -and I feel that we are getting somewhere, and the spade work has paid off, I think we are going to combine somewhere along the line the federal government and the provincial departments concerned will be doing something about this. It is a very important matter, and I have had a woman with four feet of water in her kitchen in Jacques Fontaine and very difficult to get her and her family out of it.

So these things have to be looked at and looked at before this coming Fall, and I think we are making progress. I heartily support the prayer of ~his petition, Mr. Speaker, and ask that it be placed on the table of the House and refer~ed to che department or departments to which it relates. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, in commenting on the petition, the problem in Little Bay East as the-hon. member mentioned- there are also similar problems in the communities of Coomb's Cove and English Harbour, and as was brought to light yesterday, the problem in Ferryland, But in the han. gentleman's district - I have discussed this matter with him - it is difficult to determine whose responsibility it is with regards to overcoming these problems. So what we have agreed to to hopefully next Wednesday, if we can get away from the House of Assembly, is to get down in his district. I intend to travel to his district -8313

May 19, 1977 Tape no, 2968 Page 3 - ms MR. )o!ORGA.'I. with him and to hopefully be accompanied by Mr. Jamieson's executive assistant, one of his assistants who is familiar with the area, to travel down and to at least get a report on the situation and see firsthand, and then determine how it I ~ t t ' I ' -· 831-:±

---J..--- ~~ay 10 --, 1977 !a~e ::o . 296? ~~, - ~'R • '•!

I) RG .~ ! : can be ~ect ified eic~er hy co-o~dL~aci on anrl ~ co -o~e:-2t:ion '.ric h =~e f~Ce::a.l 2o" ·er:-.=&!=t:: ot a nt:".?er ,f 2-:lv enr.e :~r r:!eoa:-t:"lents conce~ed ., rovi:~c!ally. Hot•eve:-, "- s~eakc! :-, · .. -:e a:-e a~,~re of chis :l=:oh .~e.~ ·. !c is a se ~io us "'!!~ a:-:.t we :,ol"e c=:ttc snr. e correct!v e act:.or: can ~'! taken nu rir.v. chis cons truc t! on sea son. "~ · S?! .. \..~a: T~e ho c. :"le~er for ta?oil~ . I '~ . IlEA!'.'!: ''t-.

"9eaker , I wish co ask leave to nresenc a • . . ~ ec i :ion on beh alf of 1,009 citizens ir. the ~annel - Po rt aux t 3a s~ue s ar~a ~e~ ~ee c the alo eS of si~teen ?n d fi: cy,sav. :he pra ye r of t~ e :>etition, 51:-, is co re que st: c:te ;tov er=en c co stat:!.on an e:v:r- er ir-ent.:ll 'lcSit on :he Sou:::. ,:est co ~ er of c::e ?t"ovince to train :rot :ng r.en in the l'o't't aux 81\SQI!P.S are a ' in c~e fish!n~ indusc:y. • Th e oetition ~o es oo to s11v, Sir, that ' due :o the fac t that the re are 1,208 indi vi=ua ls :-ev.is tar ed (.;ith ra~aca '~ ':!..,O ~I'.'r in O: anne l - Port au.:-: Ba soues at th!! .,resent t:!.~e, :nost of ·~l;o!TI 'l.re yc ur:f? :lien o~tl leftn the i\9 1!S of seventeen ~~ ~ co:·~~ ;:y - f:.v e ~.'it~ :to ~o ssi bili t~ cf :on o ... ?o rt unit!P.s C'thi! ~ c~an t}'le ,:!s~.er~ : 1 it is ur2ent thet: this traininq rr,<>r J!l"'r:> <! hP. un~ ~~.2 k en ac en ear l:' a cace as :-ossicle , .2-:vi ::!'lc t=ai:-.in9 ;o .. '\t ":IC"u!d on erace thri :h '!it:ht o:- :en !'"!.en for ten day pP..ri o~s ;-.., .• ::cu.l.d hsve co "'e "t ,ul:i -ru r., cse :.o~ c :nca.su:-!::r- Anv- .. ·:~ e:-~ :-r'"*' s: ~:-::? :c si:: ~y - :i·;e :e2:. '"o t.·, 'fr .

S(')eak;!r, !.~ su~~c: ti~ .... c:, ~ ~C!r:it!:"'r:, ~!. : , ! ·n.sh :o s -::~c e c:tca t :.:- <'{3:·s c: ~-:: ss ·l~r.a-"\:-:"'· .-,-e:'l: ,= :··~ :;~ .. !f"'~!a !...~ •:)•J r ?:-!>v:.rce :.:: is -,st ~:tcou - ""~:..::~ :.:-..:C1C!..: tn ":ne a "'O'>i:: 1 ve «1!22es t ion aci vance c chat w'ill helo -:-e lieve ::t t!\ cir~:v"i :ul ..::t..: r{:.s ::o urtt~ir.C" \t.-.e ~o lC':-e::t si :t;; :'ic-n, cs4'1j~c"' ~l: ,, ~- en" o·!'= .,,.,..:.-r:'l :'l~oo!.C! ~ct"•~ -?rt ::~e :t~'!~ l\ F ~""' S~"~:lt ~~:'l nr...: :··l? r.-:· ·- :-:.,.·~ . L~ c~e ii~ t~~=t ~~ L~ 0 o!~e , ~!-, c~~ = ~ !.s: ~ !.:t::---!1!

"'.1-""'.:'!r c: V'"'Hn~ ..,e~, :nos :: a::::ic us l~ : ·~e ··- '·c r-= :~4:) bJj_S

''ay l~, 'J.977 ~a ""e ~:o . 2')'-~ 'f"' - 2 ,,_ .. "~~.\.:\! : establ!s~~~~ of c~~ !~~ :tsr.ery ~r~;ere~: zo~e ~~ e~:~r ~nto :~e fish~~· ~ith~~ €CT t~P ~~~~ ~e~~q 3.5 erg~ .. · -i!~ :, ers ~= dr.a"%7'!.:"5 or O:". ·:o a::s invo!:·;eC =.....o: c~e ~ns~ ~O '":"e :ishe}:'v <'t ~t:!.~ate!y as o~'!':s of c~ei.:- Ot;."n '"'2s~e :5.

Ac t~~ n~esent c:!.~e, ~o·.:~·,~~~ <:1- ... c:.~s e you:l:; ~e:: ~ave ::o el("')eri!!nce, ~o cra::__"''i:\2 , .\11 :ney ~ ave is ~+.a tever t~~v ~Ot oe t~ee:: co~~::z o:: :~e pro r.uc :i on I 'tcedemic Asse.! '!bl~· lines bet~4ee~ 1-:i.~rleqartf!n and ~-.erle eleven, ~ I that is t~e oolv c:-aioin.~ of any i-.in-i thac t.":e ;t have . An~ l thev ~ave no ~~~:: ~ ~t all, Sir, in ccr traditional i::c usc :-y '·11-.i.c~ is ~~e fishery.

So , Sir, in :>resenc!nst ch !.s :>ecition ! <>.sk for c~e "'lO~ort o: ,P!'!bers o:: 'lot ~ sices o: tlle ?.cu;se an-! • • ~ncou::aiZe :he ;o• ·ernnen: to -:~:e Avai1n!lle 'lt an ear l7 a c!c: t~ as .,oss i~le anc! ,A?.e av.-.ilable co c he =es!.:en:s, :~e 70\!!12 "le:l ' i~ c~e Ch~nnel - ~o~ ~ux 8~scues ~rea a fishery c~a!=L~ vessel an d Also, ~ir, :tt t~e s;we ti!:le c=eate ons;1ore f"c il i:ieos i:! t-~hich c:.ey can ;..'? .:na.t~~t the oc.!'l er c;kills c:·uu: ~ o t-titf succes;;ful1.y :u.::-sui=-~'S ~~e fis3e =v !.:: ~his ?:-oV'!.nce, ~nch11En~ th'l c ... re <"r.: -::ainten:<nce of 9eRr and 'ets -'ln-! so on . <;o T •,ti <Jh en ~v t~i~ ne. cic i~n.

Si,, nn c~~ table of :~ e uouse '" d ~cfe~ i~ to :~s ceo."'r!::';ent co -A:ich it relates . ~':'. S?EAKE?. : T~e ~~n . ~e~~~~ :or ?or:u~ e - Fermitace . '"' . J . t-!'!~ISO R: ._,::.

S"'eal'.er, ! r!se co s•Jo:->ort t!le oet i :ioc ~s -"r ese nte d ~~ :~e ~o n. ·v!;-,A e: io = La?~::!e (u:: . ~'ea =-: :) . 'i ~=1ve :o~ g lon't t!.~P. :-2e:l ~n :llCvocace oE ...,r..:c~ ::t3 ~a=e ~ roce ~.'..: -~ , !~stead of :::.:1 !:!. ~~ coo ~any of t~ese ~toun- ~e<', !~ Ot' ~ !.~e: neo~""le out o= :~~ .actc :1l f!. 3.li. :'1': vi!!r .(:eS ir.. ;~ ic~ t~ev t.:or !·:, !~ ~s ~uc""' ~gc:er :o ~rin~ so~e sort of a t~~nir.~ V(S~el in :h~~ ar~~ ~-:C ~ive c;~e~ a c~a:1ce to ec:t!a ll; · ~-c!' ~; ::.:t a ?r:tcciciL c;o-c :-.: "-t' · o~ :: ~e uc sse: a::! ·~ ler.~ :!':e ·:;! ·- ~.!!. ~·.!r :!.s::o..-:e~ l:!a. ~e C i: 1 ::::,e :-:a~t · ..

"'2:·, !.n~ ::t ver y "r?.. c:i cal "li\Y (\f ~C''!.n g t~'!. ;oo, o:e c::t ::st :!'\~ ::1e:s ou~ , ~e !:ti:l " t;,e cr:w.!.s oo :t or w ~acever 831 '8

'-<ay 19, 1977 '!'ane :·To. 269'5 ~r.~ - 3 ~·R. J. '.J'I~TSOR: it: nay be, learning ho•v to splice a ro,.,e t:-"hich SO::OP. o£ cur you4!::t peoT"'l2 Co not ~~::~.llv ~~nO"·· hoT·:" to do today and the art is gradually 1:-ein;; :!..ost. There a-::-e other iobs on sailin~ vessels and any l:ind of a v·essel <;f.\ich they c~:t le.:. ·rn =c.h better in the ?ractical ~':!;" rvith old veterans "t' specially tr:.in(!C: ~e-::-sons on these heats. I think it is the right ~ove. I have advocated it ~ar.y ti~es to h~in~ the training peo~le into the co~unities. It has been done for me by the Fisheries Colle2e.

They have se!lt traHl nen do;.:n to t'!:'ain our youn~ tr~'tvlei."?.en . . \1. Bla.clwood of the • ' J 8317

May 19' 1977 Tape no. 2970 Page - ms MR. J. 'JTI!SOR. 6 Department of Fisheries spent one week there and did enough good in that one week to last two or three years, and I think we should have more of this, and a platform for them to work on in the shape of a boat, a good vessel. I think it is a very good idea, and I heartily support the petition. MR. SPEAKER; The hon. Minister of Education. I ~ I MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, in order to address the petition, particularly as it relates to the training , I understand that ~ it is a request for the provision of a boat for some kind of training.

I cannot comment on that particular aspect of it although it does seem to have a lot of merit. One thing that I want to point out is that the Fishery College has been I t very receptive to the communities requesting assistance in t=aining for the various aspects of the fishery. As a matter of fact ' I believe that last year in a particular area that thev made a request. The Fisheries College went into communities and tried to encourage peoole to go training for various aspects, deck hands, for instance, for deep-sea. trawling and that sort of thing.

Some times it was accepted and responded to and other times it was not. So I am sure that the Fisheries College will do its best to meet any needs. And I am sure that the government will look very carefully at this kind of thing. And Dr. Ray Barrett, who is the father of the Fisheries College in my estimation, because, I think, he has promoted it - the father is over there, of course, but the father in the modern age. MR.. SMALLWOOD; If the hon. ~nister vill allow me. He must not be unfair to the two predecessors of Dr. Barrett, two magnificent presidents. MR. 3:0USE: Yes, Dr.

Hampton · I am talking about the oodern aav stage, getting into the cornmuniti:s. I might mention perha9s --8318

I , ~ May 19' 1977 TiJ.pe no. 2970 ?age 2 - ms XR. HOUSE. here, Mr. Speaker, i~ addressing ~his petition that when we talked the other day, · and I never had . a chance to respond about all the colleges: that the Fisheries College last year - I do not exactly know the number of people that went through but ninety-five per cent of the people that were t•ained in the Fisheries College last year went back into the work in the fishery and got jobs in either the fishery or marine related industry, and I am very proud of that, and I think this is a marvelous suggestion. Thank you. XR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for Fogo.

CAPT. WI)ISOR: Mr. Speaker, I, too, support the petition presented by the han. member, my colleague from LaPoile (Mr. Nearv), I have been an advocate of such a system for quite awhile now. I believe instead of pumping all of the money that we see in the Fishery estimates into gear and boats, etc., we should be spending more on the fishermen themselves, Because, Sir, with the introduction now a 200 mile limit and the -employment rate so low in this Province, the young men of this Province have no other alternative. but to turn to the fishery.

And they are not going to ~ake a success of it, they are not going to be able to provide a good living for themselves and their families unless they get some special t•aining. And, Mr. Speaker, the fishery today requires special training, -·-It is very technical. It is not like it was ·years ago that if you knew how to set a cod trap or if you knew how to mend a few meshes of twine and splice a bit of rope, you were all right.

But today with the highly technical advances we have made in the fishing industry, it just cannot - we will not be able to avail of the opportunities in catching the fish which will be made available of course by the 200 mile limit unless we have special training for the young men. And, ~r. Speaker, it is amazing to note as you travel around this Province how ~any young people are very anxious to get back into the fishery. Because as I have said previously, they find no other alternative. - 8313

I I ~ j ~ay 19, 1977 Tape no. 2970 Page 3 - !llS c:.\.?T.Wl~SO:t. So I think, Mr. Speaker, the !tinister of Education and tile Minister of Fisheries and the Minister of Industrial Development, all combined, can make. a great effort and, you know, push this idea of training ou.r fishermen, our young !!len 1on t:he spot. Now the Fishery College, I believe, operate a small boat out of St:. Johii's. . 8320

~~ay 19, 1977 Tape Olo. 2971 EC - 1 CAPT. \i!NSOR: I do not know to what extent :he train::.ng is 1but nevertheless I do not think :~e boat should be nuch of a problem because I am · sure if '"e can charter or hire boats in :Surope or in Scandinavian countries to come over to fish, there ~ust be one over there that is a little obsolete in the fishing purposes itself, but you knmv, we should be able to pick up a boat and convert her to the proper arrange- ments for training our young men.

I think it is an excellent idea, Sir, and I certainly commend the Minister of Education for taking the action and I trust he will be successful in persuading his colleague~. HR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Stephenville. MR. McNEIL: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of the Stephenville Chamber of Commerce. The petition includes 196 business firms in the Bay St. George area. The prayer of the petition reads as follows: "Today, we, the merchants of Stephenville, Bay St. George and Port au Port, were shocked and dismayed to learn of I ~ the government's decision to close Labrador Linerboard.

This shows us that the Conservative Government of Frank ~'oores has taken a negative approach to solving a major problem. The government has let down all the companies and individuals t;ho have invested money in the town of Stephenville. The retail store owners of Stephenville cannot understand how a group of competent men who call themselves a government are not capable enough to find a means to keep 600 people '.;-orking i.11. this day and age. How many jobs are going to be lost indirectly from the retailers of Stephenville not being able to pay their employees? This letter represents firms and employees.

The Linerboard nill has brought to Stephenville different people and cultures from all walks of life which have added to ~he community making it a desirable ~lace to live. Now this is to be destroyed. \fuat must be realized is that these people are not looking for emoloyment in Western Canada as has been indicated. Employment is needed here in the Bay St. George area. A large percentage of Linerboard !:)ersonnel have erected new :,omes here, having faich in this gover.rment to successfully es cablish the indus try in this tm•n. As merchants, we ~ere optimiscic of the ~ill 1 s futu=e and have large -832:1

:-lay 19, 1977 Tape ~lo. 2971 EC - 2 ~. Hc~"EIL: investments here. The solution, Sir, is not to evacuate all mill employees. ~~e cannot operate our business on possibilities. This entire area needs assistance and the personnel of the mill are just a ~inority of ~hat ~ust be considered here. The future of the wh ole 3ay St. George area· lies in the govern:aent, necessitating their decision not to let the area die. This petition presents to you the urgent request of the Stephenville, Bay St.

George I and Port au Port industrial and business community that first, the J Linerboard mill will not be phased out but will be kept open and oper- ~ ating indefinitely, and secondly, your government take emergency action to provide e~loyment opportunities for over 4,000 people who are enemployed. This group is not related to the ~ill, hut unemployed for other reasons." Mr. Sneaker, I support the petition of the , ~ Stephenville Chamber of Commerce and I wholeheartedly agree Hith the Chamber that the Yoores government has taken a negative approach to ScUving a ll'..ajor problem.

The governmen1i must take a positi•re approacr. and energetically seek solutions to the mill's problems and high unemployment in the area. I think the economic >rell-being can be achieved in the mill's operation, and •.·li th the success of the operation <re rdll see human development within our Province in ••hich !Xlst of us ••ere born and want to remain in a dignified human ,;ay. ~r. Speaker, I ask that this petition be placed upon the table of the Rouse and referred to the department to •mich it relates. ~. SPEAKER: The han. Leader of the Opposition. :AR. ROBERTS: :-!r.

Speaker, I do not need to say very much in support of the petition because I think my friend from Stephenville has made the case effectively and '"ith conviccion and "it:. eloquence. I sinply <vant to say thac all of us on this side do support the ?rayer oi this pet:.tiorL 7:l.e matter "..;as debated ac sorr.e :engt:h in t~e ::ouse last ·•eek and "he:1. the gover.'lment gathers sufficient courage it ••ill :,e debated again in the Eouse, because the ~otion has not been disposed of -8322

:·!ay 19' 1977 Tape ~o . 2971 EC - J ~!R . ;1.0BERTS : by the members. ~ut I chink the pra yer of ::::e petition :."Oulc be ec::toec!, Si:-, by avery!::oc;:, not just :~ S::e?henvil le ~t.:t every~ody i:l Bay St. Ge orge, imd ! thi~k ::hat EeeHng ~s spreadL"lg th-::ot=ghouc the Island as peo ple are coming to realize >:hat it is not nece ssary to close ::he :nill anc ::hat :he :-.arcships ,_.:U.ch ••il l result from the government's decis ion co close the ~i .rill sptead far ::eyond the Stephenville area far beyond the 3ay St. George area . It I .rill spread all :hroug houc: chis Province.

J ! think the so .rc: oi proolems ;;hich the hen. ~ gentlel!'.an, the t:temhe r fo r Stephenville (:·~r . :lc:lei!) refers i:l i:is re:o.ar ks in support of the petition, Sir, that those ki~ds of ?roblems ~e will he ar more and mor e of, be cause as the full inpac t of the decision by the government to close the mill si~~ in, I think it will be realized :.: ls going to have catastrop hic ally had effects, · e.ffeccs whlch tJe have ::10 t as yet beg= co oeas ·ure.

So I hope, Sir , the prayer o c :he pe cicion ~ ;,·ill. be heeded ;,y c:.e goven1:1ent. ! hope ti'.ey will ac : upon ic and ! hope chey will change their ~~ds and not close chat m.ill. we do not be liev e it ough t to close, Sir. ;te do not oeLieve it shoul:i c.lo se and ~e know that the government nave not made a case to ju stif y closi~g i:, Sir . 1 supper~ the petition. Thank you, Sir . . -832 3

' ~ --- ~!ay 1~.1977 Tape 2972 ,::_ ) A.'IS'•i'El!.S !0 Qu::STIO~;s TO u:nCT! :-!OT!CE E..-'.S 3Ee l G!VE:l :r::t . x~_;_:::.y' ~ auld the ~nis~er of !~nes and E~2r~7. Sir, cell c:,e ~vuse -.;hen ~je ca.n enecc:: co ge;: e :-e-:;)O "!'~ co a quest:..on ! ~s !-"~J.ef. about eree ~ra nsportation :orovirlec:i by the ~:et;fqunci!and P.y dro Cor?c:n:ar.ion? :!R. S?""~-~; Orc!er :>lease! I ~~ir~ it is necessa~J Eor a fi~ ruling on t'.,is 1!la tter. On a c'::luple of occasio:1.s c:~ere has :,ee~ an indi vidual qu est ion ask ed under t~is routine ?roceeding and th en a couple of days ago there was a series of the:~ .

I said at the :i !l'.e that to ?ermi c tha t .,oulC. in effect cr2ate i:':~O questi ons reriods and I woul d therefore re~uire hen ~.e~ers co reiraim hom askin g que stions wit h respect to whe .n c.'"tey can expect answers to other questions until in Eact we ~e t to Or~ Questions. So ia future under routin e oroc2 edin~ 5 I .,ill not reco~i~e a..r:rv ;,riva te: a:embar. ! -till on!y :-eco g:tize a persoc r:ho ca."l " gi \:e an anst :te !'. ORAL tJ. Ut:ST! O~I S 0 0 0 • "~O?..GA _~~: ''r. Sp eaY.a::, ! ~~a ~t to 7;i «:e an answ-er co a ques ~ior.- ~:!!. .

SP£.\K.::.:t: ~~e ~on .~e~ber is uo unC.er ~nswers co Questions. ~~ ... 'tO!tG}.lr: ·:as, ~tr. SpeaY:.t:!r 1 to ~i ..;e an a.nswe!' co a c:.:.cs cion o;:tat ·.;as -,ut Eo~<~a ::C. ''est2n!ay ~!' c~e i1.on cee~oer fro m l.al'oile and the Lead er of t~ ;e Opo os l.t::.on wich regards co a lec:: er ::tat •,;as b rou ~ht to ·.:heir ac1:en .tion se. :::-:: oy the Ferryland counc:.l. '·~r . Speake r, the :e.ason ;:h•J c..'le letter -.. a.s not ;,rou;ht co ;ny at :anri on ~~as oecause c.:.e l~tter was not sen t froo re :-7V land :Jntil ~~ay l it~ .

It ~.: a.s received ~a w.v of:ic!! t!":is :\Ott.!..:lZ an d only :~is t:o~ i:;7. ; chereiore the re had ~ot oee n :ime to reply. Roweve:: yesterda y afternoon l did -:ontect the ch.air.1an of. ~he council at ~en7la:1d, '~r . Al?honsus ;(avana~h and ~ol -:! him that cty collea2e ,t ':'!e :•iniscer E "'un!.ci nal .t::.:t ... r.s a:-:d :'lv .c;elf ··:-:-uli O:.,e on!· t co :. le a se ~ :o ""!ee: '>i th llil:l :ocav, hi:J and his cour.cil ,·Ji:h re ~ar ~ s to a nob len i:1 .• 832 4 •

• ~ Hay !.9 ,!.97- Ta?i!. 2.<172 .I.E-2 ~~- MORGF{: connection mth a breakwate -r or a s1:1all breakwater facility on a road tv::t:i.ch is the council's jurisdiction-it is not under t~e jurisdiction of the De~ar~ent of Trans~ortation. They were info~~d of that in a letter dated A~ril 5th. In fact a letter was sent to me in February and a reply sent back to then: in February as ~.-ell. The engineers <.~ere sent out to them; to t!:!e area, did an investi~ation and came back with a report.

The contents of the report tvas sent to the council on April 5th and on the letter of A~ril 5th it was clearly pointed out that the !'roblem ~•as under the jurisdiction of the C{)Unc:il and a recommendation was made by me,the minister,asldng them to make application to my colleague outlinin~ their problem and the letter referred to yesterday was not sent until ~ay 17th and received this morning in my office • ~!r. SPEA.'<ER: OR.-\1 OUESTIO:-TS Hon.t'eader of the Opposition. mt.

ROBERTS: I tvill not go back as the ~inister of Transportation although it is interesting that both the gentleman from LaPoile and I received the copy of the letter the day-before he did, given the fact that all three •,ye-re mailed at the same time. Mr.

S~eaker, my ouestion is for the ~linister of ~ines and Ener~y and gro1~ out of the o.uestions •Jhich I asl<-ed hill! :testerday about the )l;Overnment' s submissions or lack thereof to Ottawa t~it!l -::es~ect to the Lower Chur~~ill development and oarticularly out of the remark.s he made outside the Rouse ~·rhich are far more exPansive and far more informative than the information which he gave the Rouse yesterday.

I <·rould ask hil!l, Sir, if he c~ould be good enoueh to tell the House just •·rhat we may expect in <~ay of 1~ork at the Lower Churchill ?roiect this year,because as the minister has told the news media.J and they have reported it faithfully, <·re can apparently enect a start of some sort on t~e Lm-rer Ghurchill !lroject this . 832 5

:•av 1-1 ,197i 7a!'le 2972 AR-3 !~!!. . R03E~S: year . !"ouid the minister cell us please exactly what we cay e~ect and ~hecher i: ~s condit2onal i~ any ~ay u;>on any ac tion ':l:: :'le r.ove~...:::e!lt o: Canada or ·..:he:"!e :: it is a ~ecision by ~~is gov e~~ent :o ~o ahead? ._,. i'EC:.:'='o~: ~:r . Soea.-._e::, 1 tid not say 'Jesce::::av anc ! ::hin!' the no~ Leac!er ot the O;>oo si::ion did ::c-c ::ear me sa:t eit:1er on the ~edia c=:is ~r3in~ or las;: nig;,c that I s~d ;:hat the ?rojecc would go ahead chis year . I did ~o : indicate chat en c~e press in side or outside t~e F.ouse . ~!R . ?.OS~TS: Y.r .

S9eaker, a suopleme!lta~.r. :~ . SP~l<E!l. : ~ suo9lecencarJ . ~!!?.. ~OSERTS : The mL,iscer is ooviously evading ~t .! ~eard ~is ~~ar?~ ~d ! ~ no t allo~ed co cebate c~em ~o I ~hall r.ot,~ut can t~e minis ter tell I ' ~ 8326

~ \".:=.y '0 ..__' 1977 ~"!:). '0t;E?~TS: Tai'l~ :'~o. 2.973 us ~vhe::he!." he e~ects an .. , r •. ~crk ~··ill or. ~cy ~o ahe~d this 1 :•o?.--:-? :-::e .-i~finite.!.:r ~-?.;; .~ St"lt.::r:.ents !:O :::-.:= eEfect t~.~t it lc~~-:s as if 1'-X'I!'!: !'1a.y ~a ~~<:a~ t~is :'':12.~ :t Will the ...,_ir..ist-=r :1le.a~e ~ive t~-= ~~ouse ~c:;.e info~~:iCtn? 'rn_. ~'!'r .\:Z:~: ~:.e ~o~ .. >~i!'!.ister. of ~"'ir'.es :1nc! =:r.e"':"~"~.·. \~~ ?Er.~:rp._~: '~!." .. ~re~ .k ~~, I dir~ not S2.Y t:"''lt \•";"Ot"'-: ~(!V ~o ahead. ! indic~ted that a ~~~er of altern~~ives rzlatin~ to t~e Cevelonnent of the Lor-r~~ ~!"!urc~il.!.

"'·"ere being considered by bot~ goveTI>.rnent:s anci th;o.t both gover,!:'.cnts t~uld be ~etti~g: together a~air. i.n the v~r:-" near :utu:':"e to co.:~si:!er t'lese alt~>.rn.:tti.,es. T-ihether any of thtse alter!'.ati•,.es le.::J.d to concrete acticn :,eing_ taken in thP.: ~-J~Y of e~r lo~~c:nt onnortunities .?t site in 1977 is still an ol:'en nuestion and o'.'le that c;o:nr.ot ':-e decide~. until after t~ese !'.e9:otiations referred to ~~ve ~een held. • f~. ?.8~~~T~ : .'' further sunnlement<>.ry, Sir . ''7. SP't"'.lJ~R: _j._ su"?nle~entZ!ry. ''1' .• ~..tJ'1F."" ...

TS: Can the ~.inister tell us ~.rh~n U'=. :1ic:ht ex:'I~Ct to h.?.ve some .:'.ns:re!'" ~·Thether l":' cot ~·:ork Hill ~o ahP.P.d? Yest.erd.zy i: qr.e loc!:s .qt the t!':.t..T'\SC!'i.n~s 1: 2."'1. s,_!re. one r..:oulci co;:.e to t.~.e ~onc!u.sit:'~ th~.t the "'1inister 1--?..5 s~::.:~.ted ri~ht .:1rounC' t:~P question r'f F~et!'l:r there ~rer'?. ne~otiations o~ ryror-osals. P.e '·~5 -.!_:=tyin~ l r.,rj_ th ......... ords. Re is ,.,la:1inz -=·lith the!:! a::!ai:l today. T:-:P. fact re~~i!'!s, Sir, that many ~eonle are under the i:"'l.!'ression as ~- result of ~:hat the minister s2.i.d vesterdav insiOe anC.

J.:lrticularl? C'tttsi.Ce t:1e ~0 1.~5!? t::a.': t~"!.e'!:"P iS -~ '!OOd C!:..?nce r.J('l"r~·. ~av S~.!l!:'t t:his ye~.r. :-te are ~u.:.lC.inl! up pecnle's :1o~es asair., Could tl"e 71illis~e-:- t-:11 ns ~"~en ::.e -::-tT'ect.s to he in .a pos::! tion to kr!ot:•:- ~·."het:.:e!" t:·Tork -.:·Till ~o e~ea.d C!" not and furt~e.r:or~ nb..ethe.,.. this is condicional u"on :1nY ac::ion hy t~~ Go·verr~'ilent of Cannd.?. or is it .:?. :-o:?.tter T,7i t~:i.:-r t~e control of t'.:.e ?'!':IVern-:'tent ,'Jf !:~~is ?:-avi!"'.r:e? '~. ~O"'C'_:1 I2R: The hen. '~inister of 'rir~es r:tnd ~::.erq~ ,·. ~·~ P:::C:~rn~~:· _ ''r.

Sneaker, I reject t:-te ?ccus;:~tion · ... v :'!.e le.~dc.r of t:1e :lnposi !:i.c-n t?-o .?.t ! :t:.t r. .la~rinz ~·.'i t:"l ~·-'orc!s . 1 ~~ ~at olayi~g . -_ 8~2'7

:<.ay 19, 1'?77 Tape :ro. 2973 ~r~ - 2 ~!R. PtC!<'.Fr"fP:'J: 1nth ,,ords. I am ::rying to rive as o.uch infonnation c.s I cc.n u!lder t~~e a?;_reer:.ent un~.J"t"itte!l ~et~veen t~e two ?O~re~~a~ts .::ts it: relctes to sunoosed agree:;tents the.~ i"J'i~ht ~e si~r..ed for de'Telol"''::.en~ T.·:.thit'. the Province.

Hopefully \7i t~1:..t"1. three a~ four ":· 7eeks ~·e ui~l 1--e in a Dositicr. to sit do~~ .. •·r.Lt~ t:;,-= ~~~be~s of t~e various fede~?-1 d~o~r~e~ts to consider · t~e v;;.rious c.l ternati,res thc.t we' have already discussec i:J. ~revious I cteetings and ho,efully we •.rill l::e able to indicate •dth sor.:e t more clar!ty and some il!Ot"e definiti"reness whether in fact any uork can ?roceed in this !'resent ;1e~r. ·m .. ROBERTS : A final sun~l~entarv. '<t>.. >;PEcVC::P.: I recognize the hon. gentle!Tl?.n for a fin.'l.l su.,nl=ent<>.ry. First 'C Pould ooint out to hon.

E!entlel!'en I r t~?.t in ?o9inz questions e:oressions o! ar.~unent si1oulC. be ~ a•.•oided and o~viously in ans,·1erins:1 the S?.tn.e is the c'ase. t::.e :,.on. LeCJ.de:. oF the nn~osition, a sut:'nlement~r:-r. F_I')EF.:P.TS: T(-..ank Y~"U, '!r. Spe:!!~ar. Ag<!in of r:ourse to tb.e ""'!1.inisto:r arisin~ out: of t:!:le S2.!"lf! series 0f "t!CStions • Th~ minister st:i~ll has not !'!'!.aC.e t!"le ~csitior. clear. ~l.~r-= a:.r! ~'Jlnz !:o ..... ~ -.eeti~c-s i..!". ti:'-.re~ or :o~'!." ,.Yee,:s ':£» s:1.i ...:~ ::c ..,ut s~:",e· pr.O""'~CS!!.J.s ":rn:-···:"'_r.-: ..

Could t~~ ::-"i.~.::.ste:- t?l:: !!S f"i.:-~t of c;:l]. o;..•'-len ue I!lay have sn:""''e .?.n·s't ... ?C~s -"!.S tt. r?.sttlt o: t:~ose :--.e~ t:.:t'? ~ ':'..:td r-.c:-:t ~ .. ·":1e t~e~ t~~e de!:is icn is condi t:icnal u.., or. ,.,rc!"' C\S~.ls r2inrz ~ut for:r:1r:: ~v t~1i3 zo~,~~n-t -- c:- acce,t .;:r.r..ce ~~, f1tt_aua o~ r.~h.:"':?

I :-e.-,TI~ }!:c;t -:-·!"'.a~ :.s ~b.e ,osition in - "'-'0'...! ~(~C'~'·",':-~e ct1.~ 1"/l~.y !l.!'C'!n-j ·:rith PC'r-ls .1.~C '!: .:'~ t;.y:_ ~!.'! ~o t to '30. ~ihat I simply want to knc"".ot~ is t=:e re any ~~alistic e~~~ctation, ~rill the r·crk IJe st3rt~C on ~he Lot.'er (";..urc2.il~ ~rei ect on site t~tis ?C:!r1 T'lvtt is !:be rrt:o~?st:i.nr.., ?.!1ri if the ~-~s~•er is '~es-, there is an ex;>ec.tation' then =:.t gro~.;s out: of t:-tis t=:e nc.t:I!."'"'.l and prooer cuest:on, Is :.t co!!ditj_-::-c~.!. n""'cr . ::ro.:·t=:;_!i.f! ~n-7. i£ so 1' .. ~hr!t? \ro ~P!=:_.\ ?2:': ~e hon. ''i::ister of ' 1 iues ::.n:i ~:'..er-2·.'". ''P :'~('Y.~l)Q_n: I -i.o r..ct ':710":·:- '"·'~en "':•e c.zt.n e~ect ~nstJ~~s.

T:1at --l_~..,eP~S o~ t}:e discussi.:,ns het-:·~~~n t:-..e :THO ~o~,~r!'1.!"'1ei"'_:s. c:a 6328

'!.ay l~ ' l ~i T?.":)e "c . 2~73 ~':'f ''"' ":'!':r'{FQP !I : !.t is i~o ss i~le tc:- ce to C!"!ve ~:;.e ~or:.. t ee~e!' o t t::-::e_ O i"''...,, $i~ier. an a ~S" ·:er to ;::t.at . f':.,cn ~~e can ::a ·te .:'.r.. a:"' .S~ tl:!t" ?..S to ~~e ~e.'!l:!.stic: a~~?.c.t~ti o ~ o~ "'C't"~~ ~e~innin~ c~:!s 7e~r , I C"lt'V'lot a.:ts~·:er r::!e ~u~~::icr ... .. do ~ o ;: rtp,.r.C to ~eise ~o~es as t~~ le~ de~ o£ :ae ~ocstion acct~e C. ~e o ~ ~ o t~~ yest:errlav. All ! can sav is t:h~t "e are ~=-,ce~ .i:\.

" ·-i. e~ dne dil~erce co~ ·P.r-:!s :ryins:- to <.:ork ouc ,.,roposals t!'lat: can I t T.ean e!'Wlo;n'tent on">or t:l niti?:s for the :leon!'! o:: :his ?rovi:lce ;,a sed on hycro c!ev elc'l""ten ts in La br,ci.or. 11;1d ns so-:~n <IS 11e sit c!o~;n a~ai:1. :·( it~ "ro.,csals that both ver:::::e~s:s ~ i'.,-s: t:?.lked abmJC on t~<o or th::'e"l occasior.s iilr eady :ric.. ~ ~he fed er al ~over.'.!!!e !lt co furt:,er eKa:ni::!e ::.hese ?ronos? .ls, chen ! will he in a better '>osici.on to czive sorne ="Ore ::.n fomation . ~·Theche r at ;:he ' r end of ;:~is '10nth I ;:iLl be able to say c!::a t :ha ce~tai.ccy - ~ or t!'!e re i!i ·a ~":"ea!:er ce2;ree of certai:1.cy that: caaliscic P.:roec tacions are i:l c~~ !:all n:ark Eor some start chis '1"!2.!' or ::a f.J:rther alo~~ , t do r.ot b~ ow. .~.11 ! can sa ;: is <<hr.~ ! :-? .ve already s.;ic~;:~ac •o~e ue tryi ::.~:~ to orovide s,:.r.e ennlo!"!"!ent chrc ul'::t :~e Lowe r Crurchill .;evelon!"en: as aui cld·t as -.o~;sible am' .-:,~c ~,e - t~1nt '"ill ·~e . 832 3

May 19, 1977, Tape 2974, Page 1 -- apb r•!R. PECKFORD: this year a lot will depend upon the position that the federal authorities take as it relates to the proposals, _ and then our reaction to tha~ and whet~er we can handle it in line >-Tith what they say to us. c·!R . SPE.C..KER: The hen . gentleman for LaPoile. ~-1R. \'frliTE: :-rr. Speaker, a supplernentary. HR. SPEAAER: The hon. gentleman will not be precluded from getting back to the sub~ect. MR. NEARY: !1.r. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Tourism, Sir, and give the minister an opportunity to defend his honour.

I would like for the minister to respond to a ver£ scathing and very critical editorial in the Telegram, I think it was, yesterday condemning the minister and his depar~~ent for not including the Sumner Garnes into this year's ad~ertising I from the Depart-:tent of Tourism. IV"ould the minister tell the House if this was deliberate on the part of his department or if it was just an oversight that the Su~er Garnes were not included in the advertising that •.vent out from the minister's depart~ent this year to encourage tourists to come into ~~ewfoundland? , ~'!R. SPE.AXER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism. r·1R.

HICKEY: 1·1r. Speaker, I do not think I am going to rise to the bait to answer that they way I would like to. I think maybe d~scretion is the better part of valour. Let me simply say that I have made so me unusual efforts to provide a total co~munication link anc a total co-operative link between my department and the S~mer Ga mes Cowmittee and the various committees. And before somebody starts - including the Editor of the Telecrram - before the y start criticizing ~e or ~y depar~~ent they should cone and talk to ~e. ~e have co-operated in every respect, c1.r.

Speaker, to promote the Summer Garnes. \·"le have distributed brochures >.;i th our own. \'le have run out of . 6330

I ~ay 19, 1977, Tape 2974, Page 2 -- apb HR. HICKEY: them, we have requested more, we were unable to get them, and that is about all I can say at this point .in ti:ne. I will check 'tli th my staff and \vill give t..'1e hon. member a more direct ans\Ver to t.h.e questions that he posed. HR. ~TE.li.RY: Speaker. !·1R. SPEAKER: 11R. NEARY: A supole.rnentary question, ~!r. A supplementary.

Now that this matter has been brought to the miniater'a attention, and to the officials of the depar~~ent, would the minister consider recalling the advertisements and commercials that have gone out,or is that possible, and have this matter ractified because it is too good an opportunity for the Province to miss not to have the s~~er Garnes included in the advertising that has gone out from the minister's department? Is it possible to recall the advertsing or is it too late to include the Summer Garnes now in .the advertising for tourists to come into this Province? M..~. SPEA.T<ER: :1R.

HICKEY: The hon. the minister of Tourism. Anything is possible, ~!r. Speaker, in terms of a recall as long as the thing has not gene to print. If it has gone to print, of course, it is very difficult unless one is going to destroy whatever is already printed. If it means that the plates are done but the lvork is actually not completed I suppose it it is probably a few extra dollars in cost to have new plates done. I do not really know. I cannot honestly or accurately answer the question I am sure to the satisfaction of my hon. friend. I will endeavour to get the answer and find out. i•!R. ~EARY : ~1R.

SPE 1U 8~: supplementary. A supplementar y , !·!r. Speaker. The original questioner, a N .. l=l .• NE.ii.RY: I want ot ask the minister, Si:::, if these oversights, these cor.mercials and this advertising .. -8331.

f I I ~ :·!ay 19, 1977, Tape 2974, ?ag~ 3 -- a?b ~·:IR . ~C:ARY: is 9repared by the minister's own o£ficials or is it contracted out and will heads roll because t~is very _~<portant =unction in ~ev~o~~dland this year, event in ~e\'liou~dland, is bei:J.g leit out of t..'1e advertising? :Ltt . S?EA.'<ZR: The ho~. the ~ini ster o= Tourism . ~~ R. r.rc1a:Y: ~1r. Speaker, I do not kno'l'r \vhat the hon. me.'tlber means \·lhen he says , Will heads roll? Anything that :ny staff are responsible for and that they do not do, there is always a form of discipline, I suppose, that oay be used or imposed.

I am not quite sure of the advertisements that he refers to, because I do not know the detail of the advertisements he refers to. For ex~~ple, tnere are some advertisements in magazines, various magazines like M~~l~a~·s and so on, and the advertisements in those rnagaz·ines are prepared by our advertising agency. They are not necessaril~ always vetted by my department because that agency is quite familiar with, and. for the most part, certainly up to no\v I can say, . 8332

I ~ I ' ~ May 19' 1977 Tape no. 2975 Page 1 - ms MR. HICKEY. has been most competent and effi~_ient in developing the image of the Province that ~e ~ish to promote. MR. NEARY: How many ~issed ~his one? MR. HICKEY: I do not know, Mr. Speaker, ho~ anyone missed this one, because there has been that much talk and that much emphasis'by me placed on the Canada Summer Games to my officials, to the advertising agency, that I ~uld not have two clues as to how anybody could have missed it. MR. NEARY: What are the advertising agencies? MR. HICKEY: T-mlght fire everybody, I might go on a firing kick. MR.

NEARY: Fire the advertising agency. MR. HICKEY: I might fire the whole ~~rks as soon as I find out. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Lewisporte followed by the hon. gentleman for Windsor - Buchans. MR. WHITE: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Xi~ister of Municipal Affairs and Sousing as it relates to capital works projects for various councils this year. As most members know, Mr. Speaker, the Capital Works Committee was named this year to help dete~ne the projects that would go ahead, and I am wondering if the minister can tell ~e what projects have been approved so far for councils to go ahead with this year?

MR. Sl!EAKER: The hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. MR. DINN: No projects to this date, Mr. Speaker, outside of, for example, ones that have already been tendered with respect to,say,Rose Blanche which is a federal/provincial one and there may be one other one that escapes me right now, but none r~ve been approved. MR.~; A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. 11R • lffiiT E : Mr. Speaker, it is just about the first of June. It was the understanding of most members that the Capital Projects Committee• 6333

May 19, 1977 Tape no. 2975 Page 2 - ms MR. lo.'HITE. would help speed up the selection of those projects. I wonder if the ~inister could tell us when we can expect to have them approved and whether we can expect to hear them outlined in the Legislature before it closes? MR.. SPEA.'<ER: The hon. minister. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I would think that they would be approved in the next three or four weeks, and whether they are outlined in the Legislature or not, I cannot say. MR. WHITE: A further supplementary, Mr. Speaker, MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. WHITE: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the minister could give an undertakin~ to the House as to whether or not • the deferred projects will go ahead before any new projects 1 are started in the Province? ~ MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. DI~: Certainly not in all cases, Mr. Speaker. . MR. SPE:A.KER: The hon. member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. It is with regard to the report of the meeting held in Grand Falls, Monday before last, with Acerican Smelting and Refining Company and Price (Nfld.) and representatives of the various ministries.

Would the minister be prepare~ to give the House an update on that report? What the status of the report is? What is contained in it? And exactly what the status of that report is right now with regard "o Cabinet's availability or use or studying of that report? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. MR. ROUSSEAU: Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member suggested, the:-e was a meeti:tg, I believe -last Monday, Monday '"eek, in Grand ::'alls, 8334

• , • I May 19. 1977 Tape no. 2975 Page 3 - ms MR. ROUSSEAU. chaired by my Assistant Deputy Minister of Manpower, vho is the co-ordinator of the Buchans Task Force Committee. 'Nhen he returned I received a ~itten report.- I do not know whether it ~as Monday or Tuesday of this ~eek. Days have a way of melting in~o each other now that you do not know which day of the week it is, but it was the early part of the week. I gave a copy of the report to the Premier.

I sent a copy to each of the ministers, and I would assume that they have read it now, and that it will hopefully be discussed in Cabinet in the very near future. A position has been developed in respect to the various recommendations of the Buc:hans Task Force report, and will be cons ·idered by government.

For the part of the Department of Manpower and Industrial Relations, the item in there referred to, that department - the setting up of a committee, that committee held its first meeting in association with _this _overall meeting on the Task Force on- I guess it was Tuesday 1 I think, the 5econd day - the meetings were on Monday - I think the second day Mr. Head, the president, the member of ~he union, the union representative and company officials to set u~ the committee. They held their first meeting, and I think their next meeting is scheduled some time within the next month or so.

They have set a date for it, and that committee will continue in respect to the recommendations, of course, ~nd the other aspects,and other depart~ents.- each department, of course, will consider it and hopefully some decisions will be made public in the hopefully near fut ure. MR.. SPEAKER: A supplementa~ by the original questioner. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is not here, and he has made an undertaking to this House that that report would be tabled in the House.

Now would the Hinister of Manpower and Industrial Relations care to comment on that and indicate to the House when we can expect the resu~ts of that particular meeting, not the Buchans Tas~ Force report, the ~eport from the meeting held in Grand Falls ~onday past, •.;hen that 1nll be tabled in the House? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. ROUSSEAU: I think it is fair to say that, - . 8335 , ..... l..;;;;;:.;;:::;--.:~ "".: -:.- --.=-~::.!:...:.-"-:: --:.:, ·--:-:.: ;: ·;~_ •:.-:--: ~ ·~-- - ·--- .-.

I ~fay 19' 1977 Tape ~o . 2975 ::c - 1 MR. ROUSSEAU: you know, the report has to be studied by govern=nt and a reaction to it: before it would be cabled; but the Premier has apparen .tly undetta.l;.en t·o tab-11! that · report .and I pres=e that he will do so at an appropriate time. I think it is only fair and I hope the han. member "N'Ould agree that people have to study it and see how it pertains to their department before it is made 'public and then some reaction as a g~vernment is taken to it, and as I say, the Premier undertook to cable that. I am certain the Premier will table it in due course. MR.

FLIGHT: MR. SPEA~R: gentleman. MR. FLIGHT: One more supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A final supplementary for the han. Relative to the same topic, Your Honour, I want to address the question to the :-tl.nister of '::ran ·sportation and Communications.

The m:j.nister has indicated this past fe•,t days that he intended to visit Buchans, meet with the members of Task Force or meet with responsible people with regards to transportation probleltlS in Buchans and with regards to construction of new roads, Is that commitment made as a result of anything that came out of the meetings in Grand Falls and therefore contained in the report we are discussing?. MR. SJ;'EAKE .R: The hoo,. minister. MR. MORGAN: No, Mr.

Speaker, what I said publicly is that I intend to visit Buchans and meet with the responsibl~ groups in that area, and this is in reply to requests made to me last Fall. In fact, it was my intention to meet with them last Fall. So it is :ny intention now to meet tvith them as soon as possible, hopefully around the earlypart of June - I prefer "'hen the Rouse of Assembly is recessed for summer recess - and I also said I tvould be making no cor:rment publicly «ith regards to anything the Transportation Department intends to do or plans to do in that area prior to meeting with them first. •8336 •

May 19. 1977 MR.: SPEAKZR: ~-· Sl-'~o\LL;.;ooo: Tape No. 2976 EC - 2 The hon. member for Twillingate. Nr.

Speaker, would the ~<in is ter of Education inform the Ro,.lse \.;het!:ler, in vie~• of the fact that we now appear to have a surplus of qualified teachers, many of whom are finding great difficulty in obtaining employment from school boards, he <.;ould be ~•illing, not to order, because I assume he has no authority t:o o'rder, but to request the school boards in the Province wherever t:hey can possibly do it will employ ~ewfoundland teachers rather t:han importing teachers from outside the Province, not touching those who are already here and teaching from outside t:he Province, but additional ones from now on so long as the surplus of teachers exists.

I understand that the minister cannot order school boards, but: would he ask them in future for awhile, please if they can get a Newfoundland teacher, do so and not bring one in from outside the Province? ~. SPEAKER: ~. HOUSE: The hon. Minister of Education. ~r. Speaker, it is very difficult t:o make any such recommendations. Generally, I think, it is accepted that t:hat is the rule .and that is happening. I doubt if there are very many Boards advertising outside the Province for teachers generally.

There is one point,of course, we have to bear in mind that there are certain kinds of teachers that: are not available in the Province; the t:wo kinds, basically, are music teachers at the present time because the rniversity has not had their course on long enough to produce the necessary music teachers, and the other one oddly enough is industrial arts teachers. It is 'rery difficult to get these not only in ~ewfoundland but in Canada.

As a matter of fact, most of t:hem we have to try to make an arrangement to bring them in from the United ~ ingdom. ! think there is a message getting around that there is a considerable number of teachers in ~ewfoundland and that Boards should, of course, utilize the ~ewfoundland teachers first. I have not, as a matter of fact, heard of anybody adver~ising outsiCa for che genres of teachers that are available in ~ewfoundland except the Labrador. Somebody brought it to my attention 8337

~~ay B, 197 Tape :-to . 2976 RT-3 ~. :~OUSE: the ocher day that L• Labrador no~ there ~a French

section to the school in Labrador, and presumably they have • to acvar:::.se i:1. ~~ai:Uand ?apers to ge~ the teachers t.h ey ·.~a !lt :or t~at particular sectioc. al ::toug:-t cher~ are !':-e.."tc h teachers trai:ted in ~lewfoundland, but not ~uite e:1oug h. H!t. SP!:.l.:<ER ~ Supplementary. ~iR. ~OLA.'I: ! am wOnde ring sL,ce t:e ar e talking about teachers, native corn or whatever , if the han . ~inis cer could tel ! us I ~ as to, say, the ~rofessors at :·!emo rial University . r,'hat ratio, what breakdown I ' ~ 8338

May 19, 1977 Tape 2977 lb-1. XR.NOL.-\N: would there be as opp?sed to those from Newfountlland and those from outside. I am not saying we should not have those from outside;in fact,I believe we should. I am just wondering what the breakdown is. How many Newfoundlanders are actually teaching ·at ~emorial as opposed to those from India, Germany, England or wherever? MR • SPEAKER: Ron. minister. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speakar, I do not• have that statistic. I do I ' not know if it would be difficult to get or not. I will try to get the figure or the statistic if I can get it, It is very difficult.

The other thing · is there has , been some - the council of ministers in consultation with the secretary of state and the department of manpower in Ottawa - there has been a lot of correspondence on this particular question of.foreign academics. :IR. Sl-'_i.LL:mon: The council of - '"hat? t MR. HOUSE: The council of ministers. MR. ~.ALL WOOD: Of ministers of the provinces.

MILHOUSE: Of the provinces, yes, There has been some discussion about this because the federal government is trying to cut down on the importation of foreign academics when there are people in the provinces of Canada that can do the job that is being requested. They have made fairly stringent regulatio?s· But, the University's policy is to be universal 1of course 1and to have a good variety of professors from all aver the world. I will try to find the figure if ! can,Mr. Speaker, to see what percentage 'we have of Newfoundlanders. MR. S?E . .A.KER: Final supplementary.

MR.~TOU-~: I •MOuld just as a matter of clarification like to assure the minister that in no way am I opposed to professors from ocher coun~rie~ anc so on~ming fn~ You cannot have a good university without having a good mix,in my opinion. But I think it would be interesting to know the break:lo·-.-r:. c:12.c I askad f·:Jr". MR. SPE..-\KER: Han. member for Eagle River followed by the member for La?oile. -8333

~ -· -- -~--~------- --- !-!ay 19, 1977 Tape 2977 lb-2. MR. STRACH.-\..'1: A question to the Minister of Mines and Energy, related to the previous questions on the Lo,;er Churchill. Coulc! the minister tell us whether,or indicate ~hether·himself 1or his department, or the administration opposite have had any discussions w~th the Quebec Government? I noticed in his responses he was talking abouc the two levels of government in the province here and in Ottawa.

I am wondering whether there has been any discussion of any sort concerning the development of the Lower Ch~rchill or any other power developmentsor conceraing a corridor through Quebec or anything at all in that ·-context.- MR. SPEAKER: Hon. minister. MR.PECKFORD: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have met with Mr. Joron t~Jice while in Ottawa. I have met with Mr. Rolland Jeroux oyself personally and had a meeting j~st with him when his minister did not happen to be in Ottawa at that particular time. I have met with his deputy and tw~ or three assistant deputies about eight or ten days ago.

We are continuing to carry on a dialogue and we are hoping to sort of formalize that kind of a dialogue within the next month. At least this is what I was informed by the other side in the last round of informal negotiations. MR. STRACHA.'I : l1R. SPEAKER: MR. STRACHAN : A supplementzry Mr. Speaker. A supplementary.

Would the minister indicate whether - and I realize that he did not have a great deal of negotiations previously with the Bourassa regime in Quebec - ~ut could he indicate whether the discussions now were on a more amiable or on a better plane than they were in the previous administration or whether this gives us any hope to the future? MR. SPEAKER: Hon. minister. MR. PECKFORLl: It is pretty difficult to be any worse than they were with the former :ioeral government of Quebec, that is for sure. Let me say on a positive note, that yes, the meetings have been very . 8340

~ ~y 19, 1977 Tape 29 77 lb-3. MR.l'ECKFORD: cordial, very friendly, the whole style of the 4 present administration of Quebec seems to be qu _ite a lot different than the previous administration. Whether the substance is of any consequential difference• that remains to be seen as ~e get into the more formal part of talking to them about common probl -ems, But, yes, they seem · to be far 1110re amenable to sitting down and talking about problems that we have as relates to hydro development and other .::ammon problems than was the case with Mr. Cournoyer and Mr.

Bourassa and ~ther people in the previous government. MR..~OUN: MR.. SPEAKER: MR. NOLAN: A supplementary,Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary. Since the hon. minister refers to the fact that he is negotiating and talking and carrying on a dialogue with the people of Que ·bec,which is admirable of cou _rse 1 the minister knows as well as everyone else the main purpose of the . government of the province of Quebec is to separate.

What I require now -is surely any agreements we come to will have certain provisions built in to protect the people of this province should there be any separati~n in legal fact rather than the threat as we know it at the moment. MR. SPEAXER: Ron. minister. MR.PECKFORD: Ob'viously and invariably that would be the case. we are now talking to Mr. Jeroux or :tr. Jargon r,;ho are :~embers of a government which is a part of confederation,wli.ich is a province. It is on .· 8341.

' ~ay 19 ,197i Ta9e 2978 A.!:-1 :.<Jt. ?~C!:FO?.D : ----- - r~ose oases tha~ any a~reements ~ould ~e signed as ~~e~ as a ~rovince of Cana~a . So t~at ~~ereforP a~y :utu~e ~cetus d~ ::erenc fro~ ~ein~ a ~rovi~ce :hac Qu ebec ~z~ t ~eco~e !~ t~e fcture ~oule ~~~ate a~re e~~ cs becau se t~e~ ~oulC ~ave iee~ si~ed ~e ~Jee n t~o ~rovinces of a Con:eeerat~oc . :-!:t. S?EAKE?..: P.o n. ~ember for LaPoile . ~~ . ~:EA?.':': ~! r.

S9eake r, ! ..:ould li:.-e co direc : a ou est ion co the ~!.iniscer of ?.ealt~, Si =, in con necc~ on with the very serious charges ~~at ~ere made a cou9 le of days ago by the outgoing pres ident of t.':e ~:e•.-founcland SoC:.ety o: ~diological !'ec.'lnolo~:!.s::s ·.;nen he stated tha t un tra ined scai E t:!'!o do not have a clue if anyt~ins; ~oes 1rrong are o9erating ~-?.ay :r.achinery in soc:e of the Province's sonal:!.er ho s;> icals. r:~e oresiden t of the ?t:ovi:-.cial X-Ray Tech:tid.al'.S Assoc iati on said that yest arday .

What is the minis ter 's reaction to these very serious ch a=ste s? ~: SPE:\. .:cn: ~!R. COLLD!S : ~on .~liniscer of Health. ~ =· So ea ker, fo r the 1nforoation of the ~on. Qe=ber cy :eaccio n =esc ~e ~d ee by a call ~~c.; I ~eceived f~oc t~e gencle:t:an concerned apologizing for the way chat sca ce ::tent was ·r.it:er:. ~!.'!.. ~!EA .. '!.Y: :·!?. . SP::AKE!l.: ~::t . m:.H':' : ,\ suoolen:entar> o:uestion, ~ r. Soeaker .

A su~p le$en tary. \~o uld !:he -.:rlnis ter indica te H the ~ovel':lment is goit:g to ':lr:...'1g L"1 chis sector or :.: the ;;ov e:-:-.:: ent ha•1e any :Jlans to se t U? safet y regul£cions i.n cor.neccion ~oo'ich the accl::lis:::ra::ion of :'-ila;;s :L'1 this Province? :·~. COLL r:-~s: de•telooed . ~3. . ~!EA.''! : ~!:\ . S!? ~ \.'<E!'.: Y~ . :iEA?.'l : "r. Soeaker, suica':ll~ le!!isla::.on ~as now ':leen !c ~a s ~e~~ :or soce c!~e. .\ s~pler..ent.:try, Sir .

A supole::tenca:v. t·!ould c!'!e ~:::i niscer care to react co t!-.e statec.e-:t: ~Ce ~y c~~ 2er.c:~ ~~. ~~e ou :ao i~2 ~res:c e~ c,cha: rad~a:~on is still a ':l:!.g dan:;er. :-io!:ocy ca:: saj exac c lv ·,::a :: :-aiia::: ~en is ::oi:1.~ ... 8342

-- ~-- - ·-~ '~ --·--- 1 ~!ay 15 ,1977 Tape 2978 AP. -2 :!!', 0 ~"E.-Lll. y : to people,he said in an intervie~• durin'l: the society's an.."l.ual meeting,':>Ut particular caution has to "'e used in x-ravin!! s~all children and prega-r .. t t;.;or.~e~ for fear of ~enetic ci2.r:r.a.ge. Does t~e ninister not think t':tat this is a serious matter and t.rould the minister :ell us what is being done about t~is? :·fR. COLLDiS: ~-(r. Speaker, as I indicated to t~e ".on. me~h er I do not know if '"e can always !lelieve everything that is ••ritten in t!J.e press.

But ~•hen the gentleman who •..ras alleged to '"lave said this read the item in the press he called me,and also talked •·rith mv dePutv ~nister,apologizing for the way things came across and it rJaS not his intention a,nd it did not reflect '"hat he intended :o say. \·!ith regard to t<r.e in!-.erent dangers in overexnosure to radiation in the hospitals where x-ray equipment is being used,it is a concern.

In other areas r.;here :o:-ray ecuipnent is used it is also a concern today of people fro;n a ooint of vie!J of occuPational health and~as I J info=ed the :1on. member, legislation has now been developed to h ring: the thing in control. '.t:P, 4 ~f.~l~"""..Y: }. final supplell!entary, :·rr. Soeeker. :g,.

S"Pr.:.~ .KE:-1.: A final supplementa~/. 'r?~. ]EA_R.Y: (Jould t'1e minister indicate to the House <rhether or not these charges or these serious allegations that Here !"lade b:r this ~sntlet:Jan,,·r:-tet!"ler t:he.;r ar~ gcin~ . co ~e investigated or is ':~e ~i:tister iust ~oirl2: to ac.cent a ~hone call of anolog, saviru~:·;r s:tould ::"".at ~.e..ve ;:\ade t"-e statet!!e!lts that "~re c:uoted in the c>ress ')~fot:e I advised " che r.-.inist:er "?Gbviouslv there is son:e foundation to these char~es and allegations. :s ..

C:JLI..I: iS: f.Je k:tow ·..;hat the qualifications of our ;~onle :.:: the cottage hosoital svste~ - ~::'~. ~!I:~\RY: I ~~not condemning the qualifications, Sir, but chese c.~arge.s ·are r.:a.c!e :v a aualified ~.a..~. Is t~e c.inister ~oing to u:!der~c:.:..-.e an investigation ':o see if the:-: 2.re a~-Y f01.1ndations to tb.ese c'::ar~~s , how serious the:' are a:1.d ·-rhat can ':>e c!one about the!!'.? '~~-· COLL!~:s: These conditions are al~·:2.vs ~cni to red i.11. t:-te De~2rt~e~t of ?ublic ~ealth and - --8343

I r , ;-!ay 19 , 1977 ::::;._ ll_Y : v~ . "!C?:A,,_'!: ~~ . S?!:;l.\.. •:E ·R: Ta? e 2978 i.fould the mnistar tell the House - • OP.!n:Il. S JF 'lei ~ ~A': ' ~~oc ion F3. ''ocior. ll. .n~ - J ~orion t~ e ::on . the :'in!.ster of ?=reset""? and }.g :-!culture :o introduce a 3ill, "An ~ct: 7o Am end !he Cro• ,':l Lands :\c:. '' Car :-ied . ~'Sill ~lo. 57 ) . On motion, Bi ll No. 57 re~ a fir st tL~ e, order ed read a second t:i:ne on toe:or:-o<J. ~!R . ?.IC!0L!,.N: :!otion 9. :!R.

SPEAKER: t·!o ti on 9. ~..orio n, the hon. r.he Hini :ster of Justice t::l int-::odu ce a Bill, "An act To :,mend The Distric t Court Ac t, 1976 .'' Car·:ied. (3ill )io . 59) On mot ion, Bill :lo. 59 :-ea d a E:.rst time, ordered read a se con d tim e on ~omorro~ . V;' , • tf!\, :~r_Aj ! :, ¥o rion tn. ~e . SPEA .. KER : ~:orion to. ~lotion, t~e non .

C-'1e ~ini ster of l-'.eal:h co i:1 t:-od uce a :,ill , ··~ r. .>.cc To .i~end The !·iescern "er..orial ro s:Jital f;ono ra: ion .\ct. t0t.7 . . , Carcied . (ilil l :!o. ~(1), On oo tion , 'Sill ~o . nO re~ci a ::.r sc ::.~. o·rde rec read a second t~':l e on co ~r.orrow. y ·~ . ::rc:~t'd '! : :~ otion 11 . ~ . S?" ,\..'<=:?..: )~ otion 11. :!ocion, c·~e ~o n. che. !~ inis cg= of ~ea.lc:-t :o L'1trodu ce 3 :,u1 . "An Act To ,l.m er. <! T.~e ::osnicals Ac:, l97l. " l.<~. ::ried. Jill '!o. 58. On no tion Bill ~<c . j8, read a fi~ st ti.::~e, ord e =ed -:::a~ d a seconc! t:=.::e. on t04tO !."':' O~ ·t. 8 3·~4

I ' I ) • ~ - "":: -- May 19' 1977 Tape no. 2979 Page -'illS :-!R. HIG0!.\.'1': Order 2 - Committee of Supply. ?:i!t • SP E:A_'i(E.'t : Committee of Supply - Order 2. On motion that the House resolve itself into Committee of Supply, Mr. Speaker left the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUP PLY: MR. CHAIR.:.'1A.'I : Order, please! On motion 704-02-01 through to 704-02-05 carried. Shall 704-02-06 carry? MR. NEARY: Mr.

Chairman, before we carry 06, Sir, I think it would be only right and proper that we should heap a little bit of praise on the John Howard Society for the outstanding work that they are doing in rehabilitating ex-prisoners in this Provin~e. I notice that the grant has been·stepped up from $28,500 to $40,000 1 and I think that the minister would be remiss in his responsi~ilities and in his duties if he did not tell the House of the wonderful work of the John Howard Society, both here in St. John's and in Corner Brook. These people, Sir, do outstanding work.

They are not getting the financial assistance from g?vernment that they should be getting, and they are working under severe handicaps, Sir, in trying to raise money from the public along with the $40,000 that they will get this year from the government, Sir, But they are doing excellent work in rehabilitating prisoners, and trying to find jobs and trying to look after people after they come out of jail and out of the penitentiary. And I believe that the ~inister should give us a sort of run down on the work of the John Howard Society. ~. CHAI'!t"WW: The hon. Minister of Justice. ~. HIC"..<:MAN: Mr.

Chairman, I thank the han. gentleman from LaPoile (Mr. Neary) for giving me the opportunity to refer to the John Howard Society. The opening of the Halfway House in St. John's by the John Howard Society is one which in my opinion deserves a· commendation of every cicizen of this Province. It was with regret we saw the delays in that organization, a society being able to get on ··8345

~ l'!ay 19. 1977 Tape no. 2979 Page 2 "" ms Mr. Hickman wich their prograll!ll!e. There is a very close liaison bet~eeii the John Ro~ard Society, Mr.

John Fagan, the Director of Adult Corrections and his staff; Superintendent Malcolm Squires of Her Majesty's penitentiary and his staff, And one of the reasons Yhy the grant to the John Howard Society has been increased this year, or we are seeking to increase it this year in thi .s vote, is that it is the intention, the full intention of my department and of officials in particular in the correctional field to avail of the facilities that are going to be provided or are in the process of being provided by John Howard. Indeed the officia~ opening, I believe, is on June 6 of the new Halfway House of John Howard.

AN RON. MEMBER: Did you get-an invitation to it? MR. !iiCtoiA.~: Yes, I did. In fact I believe I have to make a speech in Corner Brook that morning • and I am not sure I am going to be able to get back in time. But I most assuredly have been in ·close contact with Mr. TerrY Carlson,who is a verv excellent and capable ~d dedicated director, executive director of the John Howard Societv. The plan is, and the hope is - and I am sure that it will come to fruition - that inmates at Her Majesty's penitentiary, who are out on temporary absence, will avail of, in consultation with . 8346

' r ~ "'ay 10 --' ~~71 ~~ -. ~r.-::o·.l!'i: :'a:le :!'?'liJ c~e aut~ori~:es ~t t~e ~e~!e~ci~=Y ~r.C :he ~irecto lr. .J.J - 1 of. ~ .. lult cottec!::.or.s ~::e :~c.i.!.i.~ies co be .,ro';:.::icd in t:.'e.. ::.al :~-~ ~ou s~.

"':o r'• :~r . c;,e.'!.r:1::::.~, as !1on. ~e:1C.e.rs -s.r~ a···:!.":g c~i~ is onl' car : o: t~~ .:! ~T~~r~e of c~.e Jo~n :=:ow~.rc. <=f'ci~t - . -h'9 ,, he·1e hr.c= . ._, r:ooC. oro'!:-.c:J=le tzoin7 in C"o::-·re -: 3 ~co k , ~- :-ehabilitaci ve ~:-c~ra.. ·z:u ·,·::.e re t~P:Y ::~ve ~i~ed e.Y.: -i:una.tes '!:1 starcit f! :.:.n onc.2 ~ell :Ousin~ss) I :-eca .ll a couole of }'ears a.zo , 1-"itc a re::.airinB anc :-eioir.v. and refit!ishi:'£ of !:urni.:u=e anc :!::e ·u!r; e:tccuraS!inl'. !:~i':l!Z t!:at arisas our. o.f all t!:lac is t!'!at the oeonle ~no beca.:ne i:!volved i:1. the.'= he v~?. r;eve~ a~air: r.!n afoul of societv. ::'le ...

Tc!!r.. ;.~or .;~rC Societ":' is one of t~e or~a.nizacions in chis Province t~'t ~e serves ?ublic su?:lort and ha s not ~een <Z~?.ttin~ it. _J)I :'0~1 . 1-'E:.!EE'!. : Inaudible) . •f?. ?!C:~~!.~~!: Does ~~'e hon . ~end.eA=. r~?.a l!ze that t~e Jc~n "or- ·;;.~d Society is :::zr:i "Ut to raise h~ :JUblic su!-sc=i'lticon in the ~ -"u :.:1c e o: ~e-:.; f~r!ncf land <iS, 'H:'"? ·.:·;,e re rlo c:,ey :!~ v.e cr.e -osc ..!i:fi cult ~t? . ..,. ~OLA.."' : :)() !!O: .... n:i .::t at !e . 1'1 .'lOt - '~ . :=IC? ~f_!..:! : .. ,, r.o , u·lc t::~is :!.s '.!Clt'th savins::. ~ C::i:l!.. it ·~s =~ :...e sai d that :'O U ~o in t:c t~e ve ?:~t r:eo,le H~o are sc:-~i:-:c a'Cnnt ··?:-:fj~liF~ , a rou e btegkint' !.~to ~~ei-: .o.~' .·'~!lle .rv shons anC. !'OU ~o in - 'ro : :rn.A~ ! : (!:1audii>le) - t:te Johr.. qo~;~ .:-.: Societ7 ~nd t!'\P.: ~'i!"dSter of Just:!.c.e . ;'!\.!': ·'-'·": :::~ Jeh...-"t Eor -~r~ ~c c:!.et :-r .. ~~.:s ~!' . ':~ ~e:-e lt" .f. s:~:·s, '=-: :~~:: """~=e,..art!d ":{"' ~"i \.".i:! us .:2 ~!':') . n'l so t:.!::' t. ··e c..~_, C?:\"' ,.:~nrl :e~c:. bil !. c:tc:e ~c:::o! ~e :-sa., ··i.o :.~ :;a·' ==f"\!'i a ~=c k. ~!': he r-e ~~~!" :"\~~~s so ~e , .. t,;:.~:.:-c~? .. o, ~o , t"C !: ~ n:ic~ :~l, ~ot a :i-.·e cent r1 .ece! ..,...,tt :: i.s ~!1e t:i.:- .:-1 .. ,r~~l~~ t~~y i~va ~~eh ~~vi~q . ···~tl I s~ .v :..: t:-:.2":'0; !.s o}n q r~A!'!:7.~tic!:. ~"! , .. ol~nr:2::r C~".2.:!:L::~:io"' i:- t.,:!.~ :l'c _,.u,i:lce t':'-=!t -:t~.c;~ ": -.'es ~"!n-s'i.Y~ -'!~~!!c ~, , ....... ,...!': ?.: t~o :.:- d i· ~·i .-:IJ.:el le 1;~1 ~:. is .io~r:-r ·:f'f"3. :' ..; :::-ocib::.u . ''':'- :....-.. \ ~":""' \ ··: -\,:a ~r~. -a.~r~r ~f"r r r.~-:~ ...,.: :::. -:: ~c:" <\r~ •c:... • -,. \•(\J .. l.~ .. :-.... rv\i '::7:-?..n, I.

":"P~":'a:. ·1e--:- ... • -uc :~ ::::..S. t :"\c :~on. :ninis::e:: in ::is usual way could :lot even sta!l.d up and P-raise -· 8 34'7 •

I ~'~ .\· ,,. -· ' J'' - ~ !..?77 "HU~I'\ -· .. 7~ .':'~ ·~ '!Ot A~ : tbe Jc ~:t ::or...ra::-ci 5o c:.-c:t; ~ !-*hie::. is deserv!.r:"" c: ·;o 1uc!"l -:-:'::'i~ CQ~ecclR :~ cr ~·~:~oc: 2~:e~~~i~~ ~~ s~ ~ ::la :v~r c~ :~ =~~ 5'"'-C"~!.~-e ~s ,f t~e . .!c~ :\ \:1'tt r'i Society :~~ ~?s si · .. ·~ va :v!-;: .lis:-: c·-:r .c :..s ..,.::,:"\e: o~. !.~ -::O:is P~ou i~ce i.:t ?.. s~e::"e.rul ·..;~,. . ~:\~ :1~ st..cn~ .-: t2 asha~e.O ""~ ~ :.:-:s~lf .. u--:- ?.tr::~·'J .~; .\. F'oi:-:.t of ortier t q·r . c:~e .: :- .?. ~. . :.. \.-~i.l.!~ .-!:~1 : 0r ·:!et" ol~ase !

A noint cf nn' er ha s bee..~ raisec. '· PIC":: '!I_'l: Tha t is not o~ly ~ difference of a~ o~i~ion, "~cc !s tcc allv and absolutely u~crue. '[Q • 'iC'L..l~! : If :1ou are ~oi~"! tQ connli~ent t.h~ ,Tch ~ :::ow~~-i Societ -: do it !ike a m20 . \f't' Cf'..;!i.!~,.:',..\~: rc!er :llease ! "!a . ~!~!..!~1 : C:J"''""line:~c c~e John P.o1• a:r :! Sociecv e:1rl •Jrl!e ~eon!e, sh('lnk.eepers to vi, ."! c:-te'Tl snl'\e 1.0ney so :hey can ~e t on '<li: h ~hei r ;:reat. cas' -:. of aiC.i~£ anrl. abet:ir:-g: t-:"lcse ~.:~o so oft~n f3.ll afoul o~ ch2 la~. :m..

ET.I:Gt1': 0:"Co:o: the City Council •,rho r-et•Jse,{ - r.uAroy~~a: Ord er- ~le ase~ ! fe~l it is a ci::fe renee of onL'liOCl -ar.c noc ~ ooint oE order a::d I ~.;ocld ask che bon. '"le~i:er f.,-r Co':!ce.., ~io 'nv ~ou :~ co continue.

"'? .. 'tnt~.: ·r : !":.a.nk . \"Ott ve·-..:? ,uch, ~' -r. ':l~ !.nna.c . '!'!le Jc!-r .. 2~,~= -....: S.oc: ec'r 7 ~s ::\~ · ·~or. . ::-iec.d ft"01n !..a?oi.!.e inCica te d and :,_ ,...ou~ ht: e-n ::t., =esncnse ,:r ·,<nulc ass=e 1 £t"ol!l ci:e "'!i"ister, is an :..,credably f~e oroun. !, as t!~e :.inis cer oonosit-e kno~v$, !-:ave ST'Ient so.,e t~e,t-:!t~o ~~ ~·~a~ i-r. t~e ca:,i:let ?..r.d ! . .,.as Jroa-dc.astin~ .,.~o~tn i~ t:h~ ")e ~:!..:e~::.i ar;. · -t.-:. <;": . .!ni'"'n • s . i use~ to c~eck in i:: :~~ -.or~ i.n.,. ctt ei.iht n 1 -: ~oc ~· nc sea :: all cia:1, eat uith t:te "'risor.ers a:l~ so on 'lnd also ouc o:: ::te 3oys 1 - ·.'~t -'~! ~()'~ .

"'F:'~3~~: H~ \·~L ·'..Y : :.ras c !:le r:aP'c of i c? - '·.~i tJou-::;~ , :.a s T~e Sal=oci~r ~i~ e. , -· '-~ · 't~e "a bor. .i~:- Li~e . I s~~nt .a dav ..,·:- so cu;: :: ":1!~9 . l)~e of :..~e -.c:~c ::-i2hceni:\2 t:ti:"ln;s :o r.e cue :\.e re ras :::e :e.c~ c~e :l'.J:'l:--e r of :'ou.: '!~ "le:'l. who colG r:te - ~ ~e.2n, · ... ·~ rw.::-e not a ve!"V !'lP ~s~ nt soc i.er;v i:L :-:? n;- ?S - c!ley ·.:ou!.C ~o ;a-c .~: to t~e cor:""u':1itv; the~' :iiC. .· 8348

I '•!cy l~, 1977 Taoe 20~!) J:: - 3 • "'R. ~rl)L..\S : r:oc !':P.ve a ve r; c:oort reouc?.tion. The .-esponse ~•it!:in c:~~ C"J ~::-:!.:·· :;~ sec:~ :~a: ::·:~y ~:tC :':('\_ .. .:~u~:-e ':

f) a. I·­- -~ ... ?eo?le tu:-::eC ::,e.:':' b.:. c!:s ~ .. c:1e:'l ;me 'ln :::an;: :!.nsc ances .:::eir :-arents 1:ere :.::,·olveci !.r. o :~e'": :~ in~s . ?~-:-h~~s .J!'in!·!nc: o:- ":cd '-:~of ··s ·v:-..at, anC ~VP!" .t~·'l!.l·· i: ~o: so 1-.:o • .: - a.-.ci ! C:ic :~oc nm ir:to on<! .:ase, ! ::a:t :.nco loc-. .,: chel" li!:e :his -ic ~ot so ':lac! ch,.: it ~ .. as ~ 1>l~esure :o':" t!l= co -~:o oo.1: and co=.i;: ;:.nother cis~e!':!eanour and ~e sen::. :Oac:~ co ~al:lonie:- • ·•here c::ey lived «ell and ·nth so"'e dismity ,bu::. r.ot i:-. t:~e cci::"l"\!nitv.

It is orec:y s;o.d 1you ?.n0<o1, .,retty sad. !'"i::1e ''Oll::t~ ~er. ·•ho i! ~iven 1'. chnnce oerhans 1:'1a yba 1-:he~· woulc be :..!'t:er off if :hev ~e re -.oved cut ~hen they cou e out o: places like that, i! thev -:o not qc hone 11 t ell i! tl':ev :tre not •,ranted . Shoc!r.inv . .Just fri'l!lt en in~ . It 'roul-! ~rea!-: :1c- u= !::ear:: :o see i.e h•.r>~en ~ut i: c!ic C"ar""e n anC I suv.,c~e it is s:ill i'-.2.""'1e~in!': . So ~ore ~o,·er t.? :~.,~ .T ciln ::oV'!.rd '\c ciet". Ar.<: c!:oe Jo b ·~owanl 5ociec:' are a collecti"el·, s-all g-:-ou~ z:-.c ·