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November 23, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Nov-23 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 23 November 2005 Mercredi 23 novembre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ONTARIO ECONOMY

MICHELLE VALBERG

HOSPITAL FUNDING

ESL WEEK

HEALTH CARE

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

WESTDALE SECONDARY SCHOOL

DAIRY FARMERS OF ONTARIO

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

VISITORS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

LABOUR MARKET AGREEMENTS /

ENTENTES SUR LE MARCHÉ DU TRAVAIL

FIREFIGHTERS

LABOUR MARKET AGREEMENTS

FIREFIGHTERS /

POMPIERS

VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

HYDRO RATES

LOW-INCOME ONTARIANS

AGRICULTURE FUNDING

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

WATER QUALITY

MINISTER OF HEALTH'S COMMENTS

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

FOREIGN INVESTMENT

COMMUNITY-BASED

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES

PUBLIC HEALTH

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

SKILLS TRAINING

HYDRO RATES

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

MACULAR DEGENERATION

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

GO TRANSIT TUNNEL

HEALTH CARE SERVICES

DIABETES TREATMENT

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

FAMILY STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

DES QUESTIONS FAMILIALES

CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES SERVICES

À L'ENFANCE ET À LA FAMILLE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): Last May, I initiated a resolution in this House calling on the government to immediately assign the

standing committee on finance and economic affairs the task of investigating Ontario's industrial and economic competitiveness.

This should have led to the development of an action plan to maintain and expand Ontario's domestic and international markets in the coming years. My goal was to

support the protection of the manufacturing jobs that we must have in Ontario, and the new ones we will need if we are to enhance our quality of life and our competitive advantage worldwide.

Immediate action was needed last spring, and business leaders agreed. My resolution was supported by the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, Canadian Chemical

Producers' Association, the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, the C. D. Howe Institute, the Employers' Advocacy Council and the Ontario Real Estate Association.

In response to my resolution, the government did nothing. Here we are six months later, and Canada's industrial engine, the province of Ontario, continues to

bleed manufacturing jobs at an alarming rate. For example, Glenoit Corp., formerly known as Borg Textiles, based in Elmira, will be closing its doors just before Christmas, resulting in the loss of

77 good jobs.

This week's announcement by General Motors is a crushing body blow to the GM workers and Ontario's economy. Plants in Waterloo-Wellington like Budd Automotive,

Lear Seating and Kuntz Electroplating all sell to Big Three automakers, and we know that parts suppliers will be affected by any major restructuring of the automotive industry.

The government should have listened six months ago, and they'd better start listening now.

MICHELLE VALBERG

Mr. Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): I rise today to pay tribute to a gifted photographer in a city of international repute in that fine art

form. Michelle Valberg's photography continues the legacy of her friends Yousuf and Malik Karsh. Michelle's work is not just behind the camera; she also gives enormously of herself for the

betterment of Ottawa.

Michelle believes in contributing to the community through voluntary work -- fundraising for the Ottawa Regional Cancer Centre, for example, for CHEO, as well as

a variety of other Ottawa-based charities. Along with her colleagues from the SCO Health Service Foundation board, Debbie O'Brien and Sister Veronique Belcourt, Ms. Valberg was recently presented

with the Quality of Life Award from St. Joseph's Women's Shelter.

Michelle has received a series of accolades from the community in recognition of her philanthropic heart. She has been named Algonquin College Alumni of the

Year, the YM/YWCA's Woman of Distinction in the Arts, Ottawa's Businesswoman of the Year, and listed in the Ottawa Business Journal 40 under 40 Award.

Michelle Valberg not only has an eye for the lens, but a keen vision for giving to others. Awaiting the launch of her third book, Michelle is an Ottawa Centre

talent to be watched. I want to personally say congratulations to Michelle for another award recognizing your contributions to helping make Ottawa a better community.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I rise in the House today because of the chronic underfunding of hospitals in my riding of Durham, and indeed in all

of the GTA/905 hospitals.

Brian Lemon, chief executive officer for Lakeridge Health, was quoted in the Scugog Standard this month, where he said there are no further cuts that can be made

to reduce an estimated $14-million deficit without cutting patient care. Cutting patient care is not an option to me, to Lakeridge or to the community where I have the privilege to live and

serve.

Members may well know that Lakeridge is among the hospitals in the GTA/905 that are facing a funding gap of $655 million. In other words, GTA/905 residents

receive $164 less per person annually in the provincial funding shortfall. Lakeridge Health Corp. faces additional challenges because it is a multi-site hospital serving both urban and rural growth

communities.

Lakeridge Health is to be commended for its commitment to acting on behalf of its patients first and commissioning an expert panel to review matters related to

the financial health of our hospitals. I look forward to the findings of the expert panel, chaired by John Reid and including Sister Elizabeth Davis and Ruth Robinson.

The entire team at Lakeridge Health, including board chair Marion Saunders, are outstanding providers in our community, and I ask for fair funding to ensure that

this outstanding care will continue. I know that our critic, Elizabeth Witmer, will keep the pressure on George Smitherman to do the right thing.

ESL WEEK

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I rise today to bring to the attention of this chamber ESL Week in Ontario, another hallmark of Ontario's

flourishing diversity. This week-long event, which took place just a few days ago, celebrates and recognizes the network of ESL programs available throughout Toronto.

These programs are offered either privately or through public school boards, and now even at the university and college level, which is particularly welcome

given the large and growing number of new Canadians who wish to become fully integrated members of Canadian society. I bring to your attention that without these programs, many newcomers will go

without the necessary language skills.

first language. This particularly highlights the need for ESL programs in Toronto, and in particular for my own riding of Etobicoke North.

However, challenges remain. We must continue to promote the teaching of ESL. "Only 60 of 1,300 graduating students at the University of Toronto's OISE will take

the ESL elective in any given year." That means the vast majority of teachers will be ill-equipped to teach individual students who require ESL instruction.

It is our duty as legislators to promote and properly resource the recruitment of instructors and the teaching of ESL, for language itself is one of the first

stepping stones to participation, access, ease of navigation, reaching one's potential and eventual success in society, for your and subsequent generations.

HEALTH CARE

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): Ontarians are fast losing their faith and confidence in the McGuinty Liberal government's ability to

manage health care and respond to patient needs. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the Liberals have no plan for health human resources in the province. Yesterday, emergency doctors came to

Toronto to warn us about long wait times and suffering of patients. Earlier this week, the Ontario Medical Association reported that not enough is being done to address the doctor shortage in

Ontario. They said that under the Liberal watch we are now 2,100 doctors short and, according to the OMA report, "A staggering 1.4 million Ontarians could be without a physician within the next

year." In fact, the headline of their report read, "Doctor Shortage a Deepening Crisis." Your policies will leave us 2,800 doctors short in 2010.

Although the government has promised to hire an additional 8,000 nursing positions, a recent press release issued by the Ontario Nurses' Association also talks

about the nursing crisis and states that this government is falling far behind this target. To quote: "They are making matters worse. We expect to hear of as many as 700 additional nursing position

layoffs in the next month, as hospitals announce cutbacks in an effort to balance their budgets."

Yes, under this government, patients are suffering.

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Earlier this week, on the brink of an election call, we saw the federal and provincial Liberals sign an

immigrant funding agreement. Both parties lauded it as a watershed deal that will improve the lives of newcomers. Today we saw a labour market agreement that mentioned again increasing newcomers'

prospects.

After carefully reading details of both agreements, it is clear that both lack any new, much-needed concrete plans to fix the system that makes talented,

industrious newcomers part of an underclass. It takes them over 10 years, and sometimes never, to attain a standard of living comparable to their Canadian peers, despite the fact that they often

have a high level of education and training.

Both the federal and provincial Liberals keep failing to make good on their repeated promises to bring in a workable system that recognizes foreign-trained

credentials. The McGuinty Liberals unequivocally said in their red book that if any trade or profession had not eliminated barriers to entry within their first year of office, they, as the

government, would act.

Well, they haven't. It's been over a year -- well over a year. The skilled immigrants who live across the GTA from Scarborough-Rouge River, Crescent Town to York

and Peel regions and across the province are left to ask: Where is this promised action? When will the doors be opened for them to be able to work in their chosen professions?

WESTDALE SECONDARY SCHOOL

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): Our government has introduced programs to reduce class sizes, programs to enhance student test scores, and

initiatives to keep children in school until age 18, and we want to celebrate that these efforts are already paying off.

We are proud of our schools in Hamilton West, but there is one school in particular that deserves mention in the House today. Westdale High School has just

received local, national and international recognition for finishing first in the field of mathematics. The competitors included all public, separate and private schools in Hamilton-Wentworth in

Pascal, Cayley and Fermat contests which were written by over 90,000 students from nearly 1,400 schools across Canada.

Westdale students received 14 Pascal certificates, 19 Cayley certificates and 10 Fermat certificates. Each certificate of distinction represents a ranking in the

top 25% of all contestants in the country. Eleven Westdale students were even invited to write the American International Mathematics exam in order to receive North American recognition for their

skills. One student finished in the top 1% of all students in grade 10 North America.

Kudos to all the students who received recognition for all of their hard work and dedication. We wish you continued success in your future careers, and we want

you to know in Westdale that we are so proud of your achievements.

DAIRY FARMERS OF ONTARIO

Mr. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): It is with pleasure that I rise today to welcome the Dairy Farmers of Ontario, also known as

DFO, to the Legislature, and to recognize our dairy farmers' friends in the gallery today. DFO is a non-profit farm organization representing Ontario's 5,047 licensed dairy farms.

Dairy is the largest sector in Ontario's agriculture industry and a major economic asset to this province. In the 12 months ending June 30, 2005, DFO marketed

approximately 2.5 billion litres of raw milk on behalf of their farmers. Furthermore, the value of dairy products shipped from Ontario processing plants is in the neighbourhood of $4 billion.

Milk transportation is also another important rural economic activity associated with dairy farms, with 62 milk transport companies operating over 260 vehicles

on a daily basis to pick up milk and deliver the product to processing plants across Ontario.

Most recently, DFO joined Premier McGuinty, Minister Cordiano and MPP Tony Wong on the Ontario trade and investment mission to China. As leaders and innovators,

Ontario's farmers were warmly received by their Chinese hosts, who were eager to learn about our best practices in agriculture.

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

Mr. Bruce Crozier (Essex): I rise today to cheer about some exciting news that the residents of Windsor and Essex received yesterday on behalf

of the province of Ontario. DaimlerChrysler Canada confirmed that it will invest $768 million in its Canadian operations, $610 million of which will go toward building a new paint shop for its

Windsor assembly plant. This is the largest investment in our area in half a decade, and the residents of my riding and I couldn't be more pleased.

This investment would not occur if it were not for the support of both levels of government, who together have agreed to add nearly $123 million to the

investment. I know it was the hard work on behalf of Premier Dalton McGuinty and Minister of Economic Development and Trade Joe Cordiano, among others, that resulted in this historic investment

that will increase flexibility and put in place new technologies at the Windsor assembly plant, including the implementation of prototyping, ensuring that it continues to be competitive and thrive

well into the future. The McGuinty government, as its part, has committed $76.8 million through the Ontario automotive investment strategy.

This announcement proves that Premier Dalton McGuinty's auto strategy is working. In just over one year, we've attracted $5.3 billion in new auto investment and

secured thousands of high-value jobs for years to come.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I would like to bring members' attention to a former colleague. Ron Johnson, from Brantford, is in the

members' west gallery. Ron represented Brantford in the 36th Parliament.

Mr. Gerry Martiniuk (Cambridge): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I would like to take this opportunity to introduce the family of one of our

pages, Andrew Martin. In the gallery is his father, David Martin; his mother, Linda Martin; his twin brother, Jonathan Martin, who was a page last term in this House; and his sister, Taylor Martin,

who wants to be a page next year.

The Speaker: Of course, it's not a point of order, but welcome.

Mr. Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: Like the member opposite, I would like to introduce Sandy Smale from

Port Credit. Sandy's one of the great volunteers we have in Ontario who help build our community by welcoming new families to Port Credit, especially those disadvantaged and having a hard time

getting started. Sitting beside her is Lori Mason. Lori Mason runs the Mason store, which is a ship chandlery store in Port Credit, but she's also the founder of the largest in-water boat show in

Ontario. Welcome to Queen's Park.

The Speaker: Again, it's not a point of order.

Mr. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I call upon all members to join the dairy farmers at the

reception at 5 o'clock this evening in committee room 2 to show the farmers that we thank them for giving us the great value of dairy products.

The Speaker: It's not a point of order, but an important point of information perhaps.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move

its adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr. Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill, as amended:

Bill 209,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act with respect to the suspension of drivers' licences / Projet de loi 209, Loi modifiant le Code de la route

en ce qui concerne les suspensions de permis de conduire.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

The bill is therefore ordered for second reading.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

LABOUR MARKET AGREEMENTS /

ENTENTES SUR LE MARCHÉ DU TRAVAIL

Hon. Christopher Bentley (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): This is an historic day for Ontario. I am pleased to announce to the

Legislature that this morning I met with the federal Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development and minister responsible for democratic renewal, the Honourable Belinda Stronach, at George

Brown College to sign not one but two labour market agreements with the federal government.

The McGuinty government has signed a labour market development agreement and a labour market partnership agreement with the federal government. These agreements

will strengthen training and rapid re-employment services for our people.

Ontario was the only province or territory without an LMDA. Premier McGuinty made achieving an LMDA an important part of Ontario's prosperity agenda. He took a

very strong stand. Premier McGuinty has delivered.

Ces deux ententes seront très importantes pour les Ontariens et Ontariennes qui veulent acquérir de nouvelles compétences, perfectionner leurs

compétences ou avoir accès à un marché du travail qui leur était auparavant inaccessible.

These two agreements will mean much to Ontarians looking to acquire new skills, upgrade their skills or access a labour market previously closed to them.

We will see more resources to provide more opportunities for people to become apprentices, more resources to help new Canadians and the internationally trained

to continue their chosen careers in our province, more opportunities for our children and older workers to access services that will lead to good careers, and more opportunities for those people

who face barriers to participating in our current services, such as aboriginal people, people with disabilities and older workers, to find the services and training that meet their individual

needs. Rapid re-employment services will be provided to workers facing plant closure.

The labour market development agreement will see the transfer of $525 million annually in federal employment support programs to Ontario. It means we can now

complete the work on our one-stop employment assistance project. When someone needs academic upgrading, skills improvement or apprenticeship training, no longer will the first words out of the

provider be, "Are you eligible for employment insurance?" We will develop a system accessible to all Ontarians.

The labour market partnership agreement means new opportunities for Ontarians. The investments start in 2005-06 and build to an extra $314 million each year.

These investments represent new skills, new hope and new opportunities for Ontarians.

The Reaching Higher plan, $6.2 billion extra in post-secondary education and skills, is strengthening our foundation for prosperity. These two agreements will

enhance our plan.

These agreements will help make our people stronger, better skilled and more ready to compete in the world.

Ontario's progress has long been fuelled by each generation's desire to see the next generation go farther. Today we have many reasons to celebrate as we

anticipate the next steps we'll take with our partners to ensure that individual Ontarians can fulfill their potential and help Ontario achieve its full potential.

FIREFIGHTERS

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I rise today to pay tribute to the professional firefighters of

Ontario. The McGuinty government is working to build a stronger, safer, more prosperous Ontario. No group is more critical to that undertaking than professional firefighters.

Today is Queen's Park Day for the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association. It's the day set aside each year to acknowledge the great contribution that

professional firefighters make to public safety. Thousands of firefighters risk their lives every day to protect us from the ravages of fire. They also serve as a resource for rescue operations

when lives and livelihoods are threatened by accident or force of nature. Many also work at the equally important job of fire prevention, as inspectors and resource persons, educating the public on

fire prevention methods.

Unfortunately, some of these valiant heroes have paid the ultimate price in their efforts to keep us safe. This past June, I was privileged to attend the

dedication ceremony at Queen's Park of the Ontario Firefighters' Memorial. Firefighters who died in the line of duty safeguarding their communities are remembered at this memorial. We do this so

that no man or woman who dies while protecting the lives and property of fellow citizens will ever be forgotten.

Every day, these men and women toil in the extremes of weather under difficult circumstances to protect us, to save lives, and to prevent loss. And their

efforts are paying off. Although every fire fatally represents a terrible loss for a family in the community, Ontario's numbers are encouraging. In 2004, our preventable structure fire death rate

was the lowest in the province's history. This achievement is testament to the hard work and dedication of members of the fire and emergency services, and we certainly owe them a debt of

gratitude.

Today, Queen's Park Day for the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association, I'm proud to salute this association and the men and women it represents. Their

courage and commitment reassure us. Their professionalism and competence safeguard us.

I wish to acknowledge the presence in the visitors' gallery of the president of the OPFFA, Mr. Fred LeBlanc; vice-president of the association, Mr. Brian

George; and many of their association members. These two gentlemen are outstanding advocates for the interests of their members, and valuable partners for the government in addressing the issues of

concern to firefighters. I want to say a special thank you to both of them for their hard work and constructive engagement in helping us deal with these issues.

The government recognizes both the commitment and the contribution of this province's professional firefighters. We appreciate the hazards they face on a daily

basis. And that's why last March I was proud to announce the $30-million Ontario fire service grant to municipal fire departments for training and equipment. The funding means additional resources

for fire services to make sure that they have the right tools to do their job. This was the first time in more than 20 years that the Ontario government has relied on such funding, and it's the

single largest grant from the province to fire services.

We also recognize that the kinds of emergencies firefighters must respond to can involve anything from fire to chemicals to radiological or even biological or

nuclear threats. That's why our government is continuing to fund three key central fire services to maintain their chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear -- or CBRN -- response units. These

specialized units, based in Windsor, Toronto and Ottawa, can be deployed anywhere in the province.

I'm also pleased to say that our government is continuing to fund Toronto's heavy urban search and rescue, or HUSAR, unit. As with the CBRN teams, the HUSAR

unit will assist any community in the province that may need its specialized training and equipment. I've seen the resources and expertise this team can bring to a situation, and I can tell you

that they are very impressive.

Helping to support firefighters is a part of our government's plan to build on Ontario's greatest strength: our people. One way we do that is by better

protecting them. Firefighters, like other emergency workers, put themselves at risk of infection, from diseases such as HIV/AIDS or hepatitis B or C, through contact with members of the public. An

emergency worker, however, must sometimes endure quite a long wait before they can get the potential source of the infection tested. The mental stress and lifestyle changes experienced by a person

who may have been exposed to infection while protecting us are substantial.

That's why the McGuinty government is working to further protect those who protect us through the introduction of the Mandatory Blood Testing Act. This bill,

if passed, would allow emergency first aid providers and victims of crime to find out more quickly whether they have been exposed to infection from certain viruses. It would give them peace of mind

to go about their work with greater confidence, and that's something that benefits all Ontarians.

Queen's Park Day is also about recognizing the relationship between the OPFFA and the government. As legislators, we work and consult regularly with

organizations that have special expertise and a particular interest in the various issues that demand our attention. So it is with the OPFFA, representing, as it does, the interests of

approximately 9,500 professional firefighters in Ontario.

We value the excellent relationship that exists between the government and the OPFFA. It's a relationship that thrives on mutual respect, on the constructive

engagement of persons like Fred LeBlanc and Brian George, and on our government's commitment to building effective partnerships with all our stakeholders. It's a relationship that enables us to

better understand the concerns of firefighters across the province and respond effectively. We especially value this relationship because the work of Ontario's firefighters is central to our goal

of building a stronger, safer and more prosperous province.

On behalf of the people of Ontario, I say thanks, again, to our firefighters for all they do to keep our communities and our citizens safe.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Responses?

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): It's my pleasure to respond to the Minister of Community Safety in recognizing in our presence the

professional firefighters. On behalf of our leader, John Tory, and the Progressive Conservative caucus, it's great, Brian, Fred and your colleagues, to see you at Queen's Park today. It's very much

appreciated.

One of the most difficult challenges in serving in the role of Minister of Community Safety, or Solicitor General, as it has been called in years gone by, is

attending the funerals of fallen firefighters and police officers and seeing the impact that has on their colleagues in the services, on the families and on the communities affected, and really,

more broadly speaking, right across the country in those brotherhoods, if you will.

One of the things I am most proud of in terms of my time as Solicitor General in our government was the establishment of the survivors' tuition fund to assist

the families of those fallen front-line officers in terms of ensuring that they can have an education, and also expanding that to cover certain living expenses as well.

I'm very proud of the fact that our government initiated the firefighters' memorial at Queen's Park to also recognize the contributions and sacrifices made by

firefighters over the years in Ontario.

I'm not sure there was a widespread appreciation of the role of firefighters among governments and the public at large until we all witnessed 9/11 and the huge

loss of life by fire services in the city of New York. Then I think we had some real, true appreciation of the challenges a firefighter can face at any time, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I

think that led as well to the creation of the CBRN teams and the HUSAR teams the minister mentioned.

Ontario is very fortunate indeed to have outstanding firefighters on the professional front lines protecting our communities. But beyond that, I think if you

take a look at the public safety arm of the ministry, the fire marshal's office and his staff, the professional firefighters, the chiefs of this province and the volunteer services, the people of

Ontario are extremely well served by people who are protecting us, day in and day out. Thank you very much.

LABOUR MARKET AGREEMENTS

Mr. Cameron Jackson (Burlington): I want to respond to the minister's announcement today about the labour market development agreement, and I

just have one little bit of advice: We on this side of the House have had experience with Belinda Stronach and loyalty, so I would cash that cheque as quickly as you can.

The minister referred to this as an historic agreement, but his press release may have had a typo in it because, quite frankly, with this being the second

multimillion-dollar announcement in a week when both a provincial Ontario by-election has been called to save a Liberal seat and a desperate federal government is about to fold its tent, we now

Interjection.

Mr. Jackson: Well, you should look at the inside of this agreement, because I can tell you one thing: Your cabinet has not had a look at the

details of this agreement. And I will tell you why I can tell. If you look at the details, do you wonder why Quebec has such a gap? It's because they got a much better deal than we're getting. Do

you wonder why Ontario hasn't signed a deal like this before?

The media have not been privy to this agreement, but what we do know about this agreement is that the hundreds of millions of dollars that Ontarians pay into

the employment insurance fund every year, this multibillion-dollar slush fund that the federal government has had, under this new agreement, we don't have access to those dollars like we had

before. In fact the plan, by transferring and downloading this responsibility on to the province of Ontario, has lessened our access to the very dollars that we in Ontario paid disproportionately

more of to the federal government.

Secondly, you have a situation now where, in the details of this agreement, every federal civil servant in this province who is displaced by this downloading

becomes our responsibility. It's a government that probably isn't going to last very long, but even if it did, how come we only have a one-year agreement? Much the same way the minister was unable

to get a multi-year firm commitment on daycare, we were unable to get --

Interjection.

Mr. Jackson: Not a multi-year commitment. It says right in your press release that --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): My response is to the Minister of Training. It's amazing what an upcoming election will do to bring

about an agreement that has eluded the provincial and federal Liberals for at least two years. It's this pre-election election pinata that grows bigger and bigger every day. It's full of goodies

and promises, in return for yet another Liberal mandate.

I tell you, here is a question: Why does it take new immigrants today more than 10 years to catch up with their Canadian peers? Very simply, neither the

federal nor provincial governments have concrete plans to deal with immigrant poverty, revamp the settlement sector and allow, in particular, professionals trained abroad to practise their

professions in this country. More money will not change the fact that there is no concrete plan to improve the lot of immigrants in this province.

In 2003, your campaign platform, the McGuinty platform, made the following promise: "We will require that all Ontario trades and professions accelerate the

entry of qualified new Canadians. If, after one year, any profession or trade has not eliminated barriers to entry, we will act."

Interjection: It's done.

Mr. Marchese: Some Liberal backbencher said, "It's done." It is not done. You have done nothing except to talk and talk, and that's about all

you've accomplished.

My point is this: Unless you say to those regulatory bodies, "Open up the doors," until you do that, we will not have solved the problems of poverty and this

underclass of immigrants. You now have a labour market agreement. What we need from you is to keep your promise and to have a plan that states, "We will require that all Ontario trades' and

professions' regulatory boards accelerate entry of qualified new Canadians." That's what we need from you.

FIREFIGHTERS /

POMPIERS

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): New Democrats join in welcoming firefighters from across Ontario to this Legislature and in saluting the

courage, commitment, dedication and professionalism of these women and men. But the platitudes are simply not enough. If we truly appreciate the contributions that these highly skilled and

professional firefighters, women and men from big-city and small-town Ontario, make to public health and safety, then we'd better commit ourselves to a couple of things. We'd better commit

ourselves to adequate staffing levels for our fire services -- big-city, small-city, small-town and village included. That means the provincial government has to become actively and aggressively

involved in assisting the funding of the adequate staffing levels.

New Democrats make it quite clear that the 10 in 10 standard established by the Ontario fire marshal's office, in itself not met by so many communities in the

province, is as well inadequate. We join professional firefighters in calling for immediate implementation plus support for the National Fire Protection Agency 1710 standard. Anything less is a

disservice to folks in our communities and an injustice to those firefighters, because inadequate staffing not only puts your neighbours and your family at risk; it puts these firefighters at

risk.

As well, we want to make it very clear that New Democrats call upon this government to immediately amend legislation to ensure that there is a recognition of

the risk that firefighters undertake on a daily basis by virtue of their exposure to, and increased risk and likelihood of, cancer. We call for recognition of presumptive standards using the

significant contributing factor test with respect to things like colon and testicular cancer, multiple myeloma, lung cancer, stomach cancer, esophageal cancer due to asbestos exposure, liver and

pancreatic cancer, and malignant melanoma. Anything less makes our words in this Legislature hollow on today's occasion.

M. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-Baie James): Je veux dire, avec mes collègues néo-démocrates, que c'est un gros plaisir aujourd'hui

d'avoir parmi nous les pompiers de la province de l'Ontario. Mais je peux vous dire, comme représentant de Timmins-Baie James, que la question faisant affaire avec le nombre de personnel dont

on a besoin pour répondre aux besoins de la communauté est quelque chose qu'on connaît très bien dans notre circonscription. On dit au gouvernement qu'ils ont besoin de prendre

un rôle plus actif pour s'assurer d'avoir le personnel nécessaire dans nos services de pompiers pour s'assurer qu'eux autres peuvent faire ce qu'ils doivent faire pour assurer la

sécurité du peuple.

VISITORS

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I wonder if you would help me welcome the

political science and journalism students from Queen's University who are in the House today under the sponsorship of one of our favourite reporters here, Christina Blizzard.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Welcome. That is not a point of order.

We have with us today in the Speaker's gallery a delegation from the Kingdom of Bahrain, led by Dr. Fatima Mohamed Al-Balooshi, the Minister of Social Affairs.

Welcome.

I would also ask members to join me in welcoming Addie Peterson, who is today acting as a legislative page. Addie attends Williston Central School in

Williston, Vermont, and is shadowing our pages here today.

I would also like to introduce in the Speaker's gallery Mrs. Mary Peterson, mother of Addie, who is a state representative from Vermont. Please help me in

welcoming Mrs. Peterson.

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. When I first asked your Minister of Government Services about the ad

contracts given to your Liberal friends a week or so ago, he mentioned privacy issues as the reason for not releasing all of the information so that all of us could see, as you have claimed and he

has claimed, that everything was above-board. My guess is that that has to do with your strong desire to keep the documents private -- those are the privacy issues -- for reasons very well known to

you. But this is $6 million of public money we're talking about here, so I'll ask you today, Premier: Will you agree to table all documents that led to the decision to award $6 million in public

money -- a 6,000% increase -- to your friends in a Liberal ad agency during your first year in office? Will you table those documents?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I'm glad to take the question. I know that my friend will want to

remember and look fondly upon Bensimon Byrne, since they were employed in fact by Rogers and worked on campaigns on their behalf. I know he'll want to remember that.

The members opposite have raised some questions in connection with this. Mr. Robert Farnley, an 11-year veteran first appointed by the NDP, acts as the current

vice-chair and executive director of the Advertising Review Board. He specifically said, "There was no political involvement in the procuring of these contracts. I can confirm each was awarded on

the basis of merit as determined by a panel consisting of a civil service representative from the client ministry and two representatives from the Advertising Review Board." I think we are all of

us in this House entitled to rely upon the objective, independent opinion of Mr. Robert Farnley, current vice-chair and executive director of the Advertising Review Board.

Mr. Tory: Let's talk about what we can rely on. I say to the Premier, you have some trouble distinguishing between what goes on in a company,

any company, and your responsibilities for public money -- $6 million of taxpayers' money.

Your Liberal Party is the one that said, "Just trust us; we won't raise taxes." Then after that, you said, "Just trust us; we'll balance the budget." Now

you're saying, "Just trust us; it's only a coincidence. It's all above-board that our Liberal ad agency got $6 million of public money in the first year we were in office -- a 6,000% increase."

According to a Toronto Sun report on Friday, it was revealed that Marcel Weider, a long-time Liberal operative, was awarded almost $1 million in contracts from

your government during your first year in office, after receiving $123,000 from the Liberal Party for communications work during the campaign. Look at the optics here: First, there's Bensimon Byrne

and the $6 million, and then we have Marcel Weider, the man responsible for a supposedly third-party negative ad campaign, who got $1 million. What is your explanation for all of this?

Mr. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): Hear, hear.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Let me say with all fondness, I'm going to miss Mr. Baird and that rousing cheer.

Again, it's one thing for the leader of the official opposition to question the responses given by members of the government, but I think he goes a step too

far when he questions the integrity of Mr. Farnley. He is objective, he is independent, he operates at arm's length to the government, and he's provided an opinion here which I think we are all

entitled to and in fact have the responsibility to abide by.

Interjection.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: It worked for the two governments before us.

Again, he specifically said, "There was no political involvement in the procuring of these contracts." It seems to me that that is very straightforward and

very clear. I can understand why my friend opposite would want to create the appearance of something when there is in fact nothing there, but the matter has been settled.

Mr. Tory: If the gentleman is as objective as you say -- and I have no reason to believe he's not -- I tell you what: Just make the documents

public and then we can all see that everything he says is backed up by the documentation. We've asked for them under freedom of information. As you know, that will take months. Just make them

public.

Unfortunately, it doesn't end with Bensimon Byrne and Marcel Wieder. We have Allard Johnson Communications, another firm that helped with your advertising on

your campaign. It's shown in your filing and through the public accounts tabled by your government that they got $344,000 in advertising contracts from the Ministry of Community Safety and

Correctional Services. They've never been in the public accounts before as having received a nickel. Do you expect us to believe that this too was a coincidence?

Why don't you just release all of the details of these contracts -- Bensimon Byrne, Marcel Wieder, Allard Johnson -- so then we can all see that it's all

above-board, as you say it is? Release the documents.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Yes, I do expect you to believe that.

I understand where the leader of the official opposition is coming from. There was an issue of some kind related to advertising that had some political capital

on Parliament Hill. He's now trying to find some way to shoehorn in on that story. I understand that. But we have a set of rules in place which are tighter than the rules that were left to us by

the previous government. We're proud of those rules, and I can say that in each and every instance, we have stuck to those rules and abided by those rules. So if the member opposite has a concern,

I'd encourage him to take it up with the Advertising Review Board. But the matter has been addressed specifically by Mr. Farnley, the current vice-chair and executive director, and I think that

we're all entitled to rely on that advice and that opinion.

HYDRO RATES

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): Again, my question is to the Premier. According to the deputy chief economist of the Toronto

Dominion Bank, soaring prices for electricity and natural gas are a prime reason for the more than 42,000 manufacturing jobs Ontario has lost over the past year.

As we know, the Cascades coated-paper plant issued layoff notices yesterday to the 375 remaining employees at the company. That plant, as the Premier will

know, is the fifth-largest employer in Thunder Bay. They cited the fact specifically, as a main consideration here, that they've been hit with a 25% increase in energy costs on the watch of your

government. Do you have anything meaningful to say to the families, to the community of Thunder Bay and to this company with respect to what you're going to do to help them and help their

community?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I know that the leader of the official opposition will have had an

opportunity to review the press release issued just yesterday by Cascades. He will know that while energy is cited as a factor, there are also five other factors cited. What he may not know is

that, thus far, during the past year, Newfoundland has lost two plants in the forestry sector; New Brunswick has lost three; Quebec, where electricity prices are much lower than ours, has lost five

so far; Saskatchewan has lost one; and British Columbia has lost two. I know that my friend will want to recognize the fact that there are significant factors at play here that extend far beyond

the immediate issue of electricity pricing within the province of Ontario. I know that in his supplementary he's going to want to make it clear to all concerned that there are a number of factors

at play in globalization --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

Mr. Tory: I'm happy to make that clear, and also make clear that I'm sure it really makes the people in Thunder Bay feel a lot better to hear

you stand up and say, "Don't worry about the job losses in Thunder Bay; everybody else is losing jobs too." What an incredible abdication of responsibility. The fact is, your energy policies are

mentioned in the press release. Whether it's on a list of one or a list of five, they're mentioned as a specific contributor.

The McGuinty skyrocketing hydro bills and the irresponsible promise to close the coal plants without an alternative are a major contributing factor to the

uncertainty affecting manufacturing jobs in this province -- 42,000 jobs so far. Then we have the 3,600 more jobs from General Motors, where they too said that energy was a consideration. They've

complained that their energy costs have almost doubled. Cascades said that they've seen a 25% increase. North American Palladium Ltd., at their Lac des Iles palladium mine -- 60 full- and part-time

jobs are gone because of high fuel and energy costs.

What explanation do you have for these families, these communities and these companies who say that your energy policies are one of the considerations that's

causing these jobs to be lost?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: There's no denying that the Conservative government left our province in a mess when it comes to our electricity.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): A horrible mess.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: A horrible mess. We're pleased that we've been able to get on-line 2,300 new megawatts of generation. We're pleased that

we've got more than 9,000 megawatts in the pipeline at the present time. But I'm not nearly as bleak and as gloom-and-doom and as dark-minded and as pessimistic as the leader of the official

opposition when it comes to the economy.

Let me quote Mr. Ted Carmichael with J.P. Morgan, who told 680 News earlier this month something about the economy. He said, "The economy seems to still be

creating jobs at a good pace, and I think the early good news for workers is that their hourly earnings are rising. They are up almost 4% from a year ago." So more jobs and higher pay: It's a

pretty good story for the labour market. That's the real story. Beyond that: 214,000 net new jobs; the unemployment rate at its lowest level since 2001; we have a brand new labour market

development agreement that --

The Speaker: Thank you.

Mr. Tory: The painful

part is that you leave out of the real story the fact that there are these huge numbers of job losses taking place at

the same time, and it doesn't end with the ones that have been mentioned so far.

Your Minister of Finance heard first-hand at his pre-budget consultation meeting that Lamb Technicon in Windsor and Fleetwood Metal Industries in Tilbury are

shutting down and moving to the United States. Some 200 families will be without paycheques as a result. Halla, one of Belleville's most successful manufacturers, announced recently it's laying off

50 full-time employees and an undisclosed number of part-time workers. All three of these companies were involved in supplying the Big Three manufacturers -- at least 250 men and women added to the

ripple effect of the layoffs announced so far, starting in September.

Do you have anything meaningful to say? Do you think these 250 families are part of the real story, as you put it? And what are you going to do for them and

for the communities in which they live? You've had nothing to say so far; not an ounce of responsibility, not an ounce of compassion. What are you going to do for them?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Apparently, the champion of the working people here has undergone some kind of a conversion on the road to becoming leader

of the official opposition. But, again, in 2002, when he presided over a company that laid off people by the hundreds on an annual basis, he said at that time, "It's a sign of the times. Most

businesses today are finding that they have to reduce their costs and that includes, unfortunately" what he characterized as "people costs."

We have a real concern for the people of Ontario, particularly those in the manufacturing sector, who are being displaced as a result of contractions and

consolidations. What we are doing, and what we have done today -- we made an announcement that our government has been able to do on behalf of the people of Ontario what no other government in the

history of our province has ever been able to do: We've entered into a new labour market development agreement that will ensure we have hundreds of millions of dollars to provide better training

and upgrade skills and get people back on their feet and back in the workforce as soon as we can.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. I can wait.

New question. The leader of the third party.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Premier: Some 3,900 job cuts at General Motors and 525 job cuts at the Cascades paper mill in

Thunder Bay in one day: These job losses are in addition to 42,000 manufacturing jobs lost in Ontario over the last year.

Your government will make a bad situation worse if you scrap the revenue cap on Ontario Power Generation's so-called unregulated generating assets, a move that

experts warn could mean an absolutely drastic jump in hydro rates and more lost jobs.

So my question for you is this: Will the McGuinty government commit to the people of Ontario, here and now, to extend the Ontario Power Generation rate cap for

at least another two years so that we don't see another huge jump in hydro rates and thousands more jobs lost?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I'll refer this to the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): As I indicated to the member when he asked this question the other day, those discussions are

currently underway.

Mr. Hampton: As the McGuinty government discusses and dithers, more corporations are announcing more job cuts in Ontario. This may not mean

much to the McGuinty government, but I can tell you that for the thousands of auto assembly jobs, and the tens of thousands of auto parts jobs, and the thousands of pulp and paper workers who have

been laid off already, this is the difference between having a job and not having a job at all.

My question, again, is this -- don't dither. Companies are making the decisions as you dither, just as Cascades did. They looked at your so-called package to

help the pulp and paper sector and said, "There's nothing here for us." It doesn't address electricity costs.

Will you announce, here and now today, that you're going to scrap your plan to end the Ontario Power Generation revenue cap? Will you do that so that we don't

have thousands more jobs --

The Speaker: The question has been asked.

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: It's fascinating: This question keeps coming from a government that actually collapsed from 11,700 to 6,600 jobs in

northwestern Ontario in, guess what? The forestry, mining, oil and gas industries. We have done more in two years to address the issues in this province than they managed to do in five years,

except, again, in northeastern Ontario they reduced their jobs from 27,700 to 21,700 and they closed 14 mills at the same time.

Mr. Hampton: Minister, your answer betrays the fact that you don't know much of the history. I was part of the government that repositioned

600 jobs.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I need to be able to hear the leader of the third party. Minister of Finance, order.

Leader of the third party.

Mr. Hampton: I was part of the government that repositioned 600 jobs at the Cascades mill in Thunder Bay in 1993 so they'd continue to have

jobs until now, and 1,000 jobs at Kapuskasing --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Look, we're not going to do this. We need to have some respect for each other and for the Legislature. I need to be able to hear

the leader of the third party.

Mr. Hampton: -- and 600 jobs at St. Marys Paper in Sault Ste. Marie, and 22 sawmills, accounting for more than 4,000 jobs. Those were mills

and jobs that were repositioned so that people continued to have work.

Now, what the pulp and paper sector particularly -- I think also the steel sector -- wants to know, is, is the McGuinty government going to continue the hydro

rate cap, or are you going to scrap the hydro rate cap, see hydro rates go up another 20% and kill thousands more jobs? Quit dithering. Answer today: Are you going to extend it or not?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: A thousand people a week lost their jobs under this government. I can't believe that these questions are coming, when you

look -- do you call that reconstruction? I lived through that social contract. The education system lived through that social contract. That may be reconstruction to you, but I assure you that it

was a loss to a lot of other people.

Three billion dollars' worth of new construction and new investment and employment in this province through our initiatives in 9,000 megawatts alone: That's

5,000 construction jobs. We even had DMI, who just came from North Dakota to set up a new manufacturing plant for the wind industry in Fort Erie. I indicated to this member not once, not twice but

three times that those discussions are underway, and they are underway.

LOW-INCOME ONTARIANS

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Today, the Ontario Association of Food Banks said that a growing

number of Ontarians are hungry for change: 338,563 Ontarians used food banks this year, an increase of 4.8% since last year; 144,234 of them were children. That's an increase of 11.7% since last

year -- a rising number -- and 14.5% of all food bank users are the working poor.

Premier, this is unacceptable. Child hunger in Ontario is growing. You were the Premier who said, "Choose change." Poor children are hungry for change. Where's

the change, Premier?.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I want to remind my friend opposite that when the NDP were in office, one

in five children were on welfare.

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: They don't want to hear that. We lost 1,000 jobs every single month -- every single month.

We have made significant investments in improving quality of life for our least fortunate. We've raised the minimum wage twice, on its way to $8 per hour.

We've increased rates for people who find themselves on social assistance and ODSP by 3%. We've increased student assistance for over 135,000 Ontarians. We established a $10-million rent bank. We

put in place a $2-million emergency hydro assistance fund.

There is more work to do. I can say that those kinds of concerns that the member is raising weigh heavily on us. We look forward to breathing more life into

those at the time --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

Mr. Hampton: Premier, while you're congratulating yourself, this is what the report says. The report is entitled the Ontario Hunger Report,

and it identifies seven factors, some of which you pat yourself on the back for: decreasing incomes; employment cutbacks; rapidly rising household expenses, particularly energy cost; erosion of

benefits; poverty among single parents and children; inadequate social assistance relative to the poverty line; and a continued increase in new Canadians in poverty.

These are the people to whom you said, "Choose change." These are the people whom you told a McGuinty government would produce change for them. What they're

asking is, where's the change? Where's the plan from the McGuinty government?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: To the Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): We appreciate very much the

organizations that were here today that represent hard-working volunteers and staff, who work every day for the benefit of people who struggle in Ontario today. We applaud them for the work they

do. They do it sincerely and with meaning.

The other day I was in Sudbury speaking to an individual who runs the food banks for the Sudbury areas. It is a growing trend and a concerning one that more

people are working two minimum wage jobs and still the families need to go to food banks.

But let me remind this party, whose federal cousins are busy trying to take down the government that just tabled tax relief for these same families -- things

that would benefit low-income Canadians, and yet you stand here like some kind of hero while your party is busy hurting these same people. I think you need to get back to the table and join with us

as a party when we try to benefit low-income Ontarians.

Mr. Hampton: The McGuinty government must be referring to those pre-election promises. I think people in Ontario know what to expect from

Liberal pre-election promises.

This is what the food banks say: "Government programs designed to assist children living in poverty in Ontario have not met their intended aim; 119,066

families in Ontario were eligible for the national child benefit this year. All of these families had that benefit clawed back ...." By whom? By the McGuinty government. Then, in a move out of

the Harris Conservative playbook, you cut off malnourished people's access to the special diet supplement.

During the election, Premier, you told these families you would end the clawback of the national child benefit. You said it was immoral to claw back money from

the lowest-income people. When are you going to --

The Speaker: The question has been asked. Minister.

Hon. Ms. Pupatello: Let me say right off the bat, you are dead wrong. Number one, when we clawed through over $37 million on the national

child benefit, you voted against it. When we more than doubled nutritional programs for children in schools, you voted against it. When we increased the minimum wage for low-income working

Ontarians, you voted against it.

You need to have more credibility to be asking questions about poor people in Ontario. Instead, join with us as we work together. We acknowledge that more work

needs to be done. We are determined to help people in Ontario, especially those who need help, especially low-income Ontarians.

AGRICULTURE FUNDING

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): To the Minister of Agriculture: Yesterday morning at the Ontario Federation of Agriculture

convention, you did leave enough time for one question. I'd like to ask that question again: When will Premier McGuinty, with an elected majority government, empower you to fund the grains and

oilseeds proposal? Please don't tell us you're waiting for the federal government, because we know the federal government won't be acting any time soon.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): First of all, I'd like to say to the honourable member that I did

indicate to the OFA folks yesterday that I would be prepared to come back. I was going to rearrange my

schedule so I could come back and answer their questions, and they were not able to

accommodate that. I was very sorry about that because I did want to have the opportunity to address the important issues they did bring to our attention.

With respect to the grains and oilseeds proposal, the unified voice proposal, I would say to you that integral to that proposal, in their ask, is that we work

together as partners to address the issue of all grains and oilseeds and other sectors that are in need. Their needs are not being met by the business risk management program that's in place at the

present time. They've made it very clear that the producers, the provincial government and the federal government all have to be at the table in order to make this work.

Mr. Barrett: Minister, we know the feds aren't going to be doing anything soon. And you're right: Other sectors are in trouble, not only cash

crop but also beef, tobacco and hort. They all have funding proposals on your desk. We know the feds aren't part of this co-operation right now. Again, why would the federal government ante up to a

plan that you don't really seem committed to? Farmers don't have time to wait. Minister, the question remains: Will you take action? Will your government take unilateral action, find the funding

now for cash crop, beef, tobacco and fruit and vegetable, and then meet with the federal government later and negotiate their share or their co-operation?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: We are listening to those in the agriculture sector, to our agriculture partners, who have made it very clear to us that

we are looking for a long-term plan to bring stability to this very important sector in our society. I have committed to them to work with them and the federal government, but make clear that the

participation of the federal government is absolutely essential. The producers in the province know that and expect it. I would suggest that perhaps the honourable member might want to check his

e-mail, because I am of the understanding that the federal government actually did make an announcement this morning.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Minister, last night I had the

privilege and honour of spending an evening with the people in the Jane-Finch community and I had the honour of sleeping under their roof that same night. I understand from them that the night

before, you were in another public housing development and that you too spent the evening under their roof.

I want to tell what you I witnessed. I witnessed apartments in shoddy condition. I saw air circulation that didn't work. I saw dirty carpets. I smelled urine

in the hallways. My shower didn't work in the morning. But most disgusting were the bars on the window in the recreation centre that the youth had to use. I have a simple question to you: Would you

want your family to live in conditions like this?

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): Let me first of all say that the member is quite correct; I too spent an

evening -- at Moss Park, actually. I want to thank the people there whom I met with both on Monday night and during the evening for their hospitality. I certainly got a much better insight into the

kind of issues that they face on a day-to-day basis. I also sensed a sense of community and camaraderie amongst the people that I met.

There's no question about the fact that something has to be done about upgrading the social housing that currently exists out there. We have already made

advances to the federal minister of housing on a number of occasions to make sure that there is going to be enough funding available to upgrade these housing communities, especially with respect to

the legacy funding that is available as the mortgages get paid down, to leave the balance of funding there so that there is a steady stream of money available in order to make sure that the public

housing --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Minister, I also spent last night in Toronto community housing. People told me directly that when they

leave work, they want to come home to a place that is safe, secure and livable, just like you and me. The province downloaded aging social housing to municipalities without funding for maintenance

and upgrading, and you know that. Across Toronto, that's 164,000 people living in 58,000 units that are falling apart. Now, there's an ever-increasing $224-million repair bill that morally,

Minister, you cannot ignore. You have seen it yourself. We want answers today, Minister. I'm returning to my unit tonight. Can I tell them that you will be cutting the cheque immediately to fix up

their homes?

Hon. Mr. Gerretsen: This government has done more than has been done over the last 15 years when it comes to affordable housing. As you know,

last April we signed an agreement with the federal government in which over $300 million of provincial taxpayers' money was made available to match the same amount of money that the feds have put

in for affordable housing. That money is both for housing allowances and for new affordable housing that is being built and has been built already.

Returning to the issue that the member has raised, there's no question about it: If we want to maintain the social housing stock that's out there, it's going

to be necessary to upgrade that. We're working on that on a day-to-day basis, both within our own ministries and with the federal government as well, to make sure that there's sufficient funding

available in due course so that these buildings can be made secure and safe and so that they can be great places to live for the people who actually live there.

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): My question is to the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. First,

congratulations on today's announcement of the Canada-Ontario labour market agreements. Once again, you have succeeded in ensuring that the concerns of Ontario's workers and businesses are not only

heard but addressed as well.

Minister, you recently announced this government's Ontario trust for student support program. This program will provide $50 million every year to

post-secondary institutions, providing bursaries to assist those students in financial need. Congratulations to you and the Premier on this initiative.

Due to massive tuition increases and student assistance cuts by the previous two governments, it has become more difficult for students and their parents to

afford post-secondary education -- education essential for successful career opportunities. There are businesses and individuals in the community willing to donate money for bursaries, but they

want guarantees that students will get the greatest benefit from their dollars. Minister, can you tell us how our government's plan will ensure this?

Hon. Christopher Bentley (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): I would like to thank the member for

Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh for the question and for his advocacy on behalf of the students and families in his riding. He speaks often at his beloved St. Lawrence College, and to the students

who go to other post-secondary institutions. The Ontario trust for student support is $50 million a year, every year, to leverage individual and corporate donations. This is how it works: For the

institutions that get donations, the government will match the dollars one for one, but for some it gets even better than that. For some institutions, and St. Lawrence College happens to be one of

those, they've had challenges over the years in raising funds, so the government will provide them additional three-to-one matching for those dollars. What will this do? These monies go into an

endowment. We'll have another 4,000 to 5,000 bursaries made available every single, solitary year for students, to assist them in their educational needs. That's good for access, good for the

constituents in Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh and good for the students of Ontario.

Mr. Brownell: Thank you for the explanation. I know there are students across this province applauding this message of hope, knowing this

government is providing another tool to assist them in furthering their education. The McGuinty government has shown time and time again its commitment to student success and achievement in this

province. I know my caucus colleagues believe all students should have access to higher learning opportunities based on their abilities, not on the size of their pocketbooks. Minister, could you

explain to my constituents and to those in this House some of the other innovative measures this government has taken to allow students from across Ontario better access to our post-secondary

education system?

Hon. Mr. Bentley: First of all, what we did in the last budget was to make an additional -- extra -- $1.5 billion available over the next five

years for student assistance, after many years when student assistance hadn't been increased. What have we done in the first year? We restored the access grants for low-income families that the NDP

cut in the early 1990s. We're giving up to 32,000 access grants to first- and second-year students -- not loans; grants for access.

Secondly, you heard about the Ontario trust for student support, but additionally, we started to recognize additional student costs in the OSAP program. For

example, you didn't have any allowance in calculating the need for a computer. Virtually every student needs a computer. We've recognized the cost. We raised the weekly loan allowance limits for

the first time in a dozen years. That was time. There is more to do and we've got four more years of extra money to do it. It will be good for students, good for the students in your riding and

good for the people of Ontario.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): Mr Speaker, my question was going to be for natural resources, but I think he's missing in action

today. I think he had to go somewhere, unfortunately. He's not on the list as being away. Since he's not here, I guess I'll send my question to the Premier, since he's the boss and he'll be able to

answer this.

Premier, while you were away in China on your last trip, we had a problem here. One of your ministries made a mistake and sent an order to the wrong people. It

should have gone to the Minister of Natural Resources. They ended up sending it to a municipality, wanting the municipality to fix a river that belongs to the province. I asked the Minister of

Natural Resources the other day and he tried to put it off to the Ministry of the Environment, which can't answer the question. He sent me a letter. In his letter, he states that the rivers aren't

really under the mandate of natural resources.

I would like you, Premier, to explain to us when that was taken out of the mandate for natural resources.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): That should be sent to the assistant to the Minister of the

Environment.

Mr. John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): We'll try to give the member opposite all the action he needs. I happen to have a copy of the letter

from the minister, the same one he gave to you. It seems to me to be very clear. "With regard to erosion," which is the issue that was raised, "conservation authorities have responsibility for

erosion control and have considerable experience dealing with watercourse erosion problems. I encourage the municipality to continue to work with the Saugeen Valley Conservation Authority in this

matter."

It seems to be very clear that it's an issue before the conservation authority. I know you're sending this over to the Minister of Natural Resources. I think

his answer is very clear. We continue to note that the community of Neustadt, as part of West Grey, has failed to apply for COMRIF, round 2, funding for what we consider to be a very serious

matter. We note that, given the fact that the provincial order has been stayed for the temporary period right now, there should be a willingness on all sides to come together to resolve this very

serious problem.

Mr. Murdoch: I guess we can't get someone to really answer the question. We got a lot of ramble there, and yes, I agree with Mr. Ramsay's

letter where it says that the conservation authorities are much brighter than natural resources. We've known that for a long time.

The conservation authorities are funded through natural resources. So now, after hearing from the parliamentary assistant for environment that they want to

fund this, I wanted to ask the Minister of Natural Resources, then, would he consider today funding this project? That's where conservation authorities get their money: from natural resources.

Since rivers, as I understand it, should still be under the mandate of natural resources, even though you people don't want to agree with that, fish, I think, are still under the mandate of natural

resources. There are a lot of fish in this river.

I guess it would still have to go back to the Premier: Will you fund this project if the Saugeen Valley Conservation Authority asks you for the funding?

Mr. Wilkinson: Let's just try to get the history straight on this. The reason that community has the sewage lagoon in question is because your

government downloaded it to the community. That's what started it. When you had the same job that I have today as the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of the Environment, what did you do

about that for the good people of Neustadt? Absolutely nothing, other than the fact that you have rhetoric.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound will come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Order. I'm going to have to name the member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound. Please come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker: The parliamentary assistant.

Mr. Wilkinson: I agree that the member opposite has the right to ask a minister of the crown a question. It doesn't seem that you want to

Mr. Murdoch: It's your river. You should be paying for it.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I name the member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound, Mr. Murdoch.

Mr. Murdoch was escorted from the chamber.

MINISTER OF HEALTH'S COMMENTS

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): A question to the Premier: Premier, are anger management classes covered by OHIP?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I'm not sure they are, but I might be able to make an exception for the

member.

Mr. Kormos: Last night, a popular television show mocked Ontario's optometrists because your Minister of Health called optometrists a bunch of

terrorists. The Comedy Network's Colbert Report put Canadian optometrists at number 4 on its "threat down" list of North America's most clear and present dangers. Said host Stephen Colbert, "Bravo,

sir. Optometrists are a menace."

I know the Minister of Health considers himself a media star, but surely this is the kind of media exposure that Ontario and Ontario optometrists can do

without.

Premier, before your minister says something else he regrets and causes Ontario and our health professionals more international embarrassment, will you commit

today to ensuring that your Minister of Health himself is enrolled in anger management classes?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Let me just say how proud we all are, here in government, of the wonderful work that is being done by George Smitherman,

our Minister of Health. There is no doubt about it: There is no shortage of enthusiasm that Minister Smitherman brings to his work, but I can tell you it all is informed by a spirit and a sentiment

of commitment to improving the quality of health care for all Ontarians. He will proceed, I know that, as enthusiastically as he possibly can to ensure that we can improve the quality of services

for all Ontarians.

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

Mr. David Orazietti (Sault Ste. Marie): My question is to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. I want to congratulate the minister and

the Premier for securing this week a historic immigration agreement for the province of Ontario that will see $920 million in new funding to assist newcomers, something neither of the two previous

governments were able to deliver.

I know that you and our government have recognized the economic advantages that highly educated and skilled immigrants represent, and have negotiated this

historic agreement with the federal government to ensure that those who choose Ontario as their new home receive the important services that they need.

While the north does not receive nearly as many immigrants as the GTA, I want to say that we welcome their talents and skills and hope more will choose to

settle in northern Ontario.

Minister, what does this immigration agreement mean for those newcomers who have chosen northern Ontario as their home?

Hon. Mike Colle (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): As you know, this unprecedented ground-breaking agreement, which all Ontario

governments have been trying to get for over 25 years, is going to mean that newcomers are finally going to get the resources that they need to integrate and be part of a successful Ontario.

The interesting part of this agreement is that one of the strategies in here is to have a partnership with our municipalities so that we'll be able to

highlight the attractive features in all Ontario communities, especially the north -- great places like Sault Ste. Marie, with affordable housing and welcoming people. They'll be able to showcase

why newcomers, when choosing to come to Ontario, should look at the north -- at Sudbury, at Sault Ste. Marie -- as a great place to bring their investments and to bring their creativity. It's very

much part of our plan.

Mr. Orazietti: I know that the newcomers who have selected the north as their new home will appreciate the additional funding for settlement

and language services from this agreement.

As you know, helping to create economic opportunities in northern Ontario is a constant challenge, but we've recently heard from the Minister of Northern

Development and Mines about a major mining announcement that will bring millions of dollars of new investment to Ontario and hundreds of new jobs.

However, as a province, we continue to experience shortages of people with specific training and education. The birth rate is not increasing, and growth now

depends on immigration in the north, as it does for the rest of the province.

Minister, what will the immigration agreement do to help northern communities attract immigrants with the skill sets and training that we need?

Hon. Mr. Colle: One of the things that this new immigration agreement will enable us to do is to profile different communities to prospective

immigrants overseas who are looking to come to Ontario, so that they can choose and be more familiar with the opportunities.

Traditionally, we know the great impact immigrants have had in Mississauga and Markham, but along with the federal government, what we're saying is, there are

Sudbury. You can have university for your children. The infrastructure is already there: hospitals are there and schools are there. The people of the north are so welcoming. This investment of $920

million will mean more successful immigrants will make Sault Ste. Marie their home and will be welcomed in the north. It's great news for the north and it's great news for our newcomers.

FOREIGN INVESTMENT

Mr. Ted Chudleigh (Halton): My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Ontario is reeling. Over 40 companies have

either shut down or are laying off significant numbers of employees. You've been back from China for one week. Minister, when you were in China, did your missioners write any business while they

were there? Is there any ray of hope for Ontario in that area?

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I'm very proud to announce that the trip to China, with the leadership of

the Premier, was a huge success for Ontario. We met with many different groups. There were in fact a number of signings. Some 30 contracts were signed while we were there. But more importantly, we

were seeking to reach out to the Chinese and say that we are open for business, that we're interested in two-way investment. We met with many diverse companies that are interested in investing in

North America. I think that will prove to be very successful in the months to come.

Mr. Chudleigh: After a week, I would have thought the minister may have reported to the House on the success of this mission and may have had

a dollar figure associated with how much business was written. If there's a dollar figure associated with how much business was written, Ontarians could make a determination as to whether this was

a successful trade mission or not.

In talking about how successful this trade mission is, I wonder if you could tell me how much this trade mission cost the taxpayers of Ontario.

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: This comes from a member who was part of a government that for the longest time did nothing about attracting foreign

investment to this province. In fact, during that government's time in office, direct foreign investment as a percentage of world share dropped in half. So you had a pathetic record when it comes

to attracting investment from abroad.

What we are doing is reversing that. You were missing in action on the foreign front, and we're moving forward. We're expanding our in-market centres to four

additional in-market centres -- these will be happening very shortly -- one in London, one in Tokyo, one in New Delhi and one in Los Angeles. Indeed, there are going to be additional investments

being made by the Chinese in Canada.

We don't have a figure for you today, but you can FOI that. I'm sure you've already considered doing that. That will be made available in due course in terms

of its costs.

COMMUNITY-BASED

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question to the Premier. The Ministry of Health has targeted some 30 hospital-based crises and

treatment programs run by St. Joseph's Health Care in London to be divested to community-based agencies in southwestern Ontario. The hospital says the decisions were made without any consultation,

clinical input or assessment of the staff and expertise in the community to deal with patients who suffer from serious, persistent mental illness. Doctors and psychiatrists at St. Joseph's confirm

that the decision to divest 11 ACT teams from the hospital to the community run counter to recommendations made by the South West Mental Health Implementation Task Force. Neither staff from the

targeted programs nor the patients and their families who have an association with St. Joseph's have been consulted or involved in this process.

Premier, what is the government's plan to deal with these very serious concerns about these proposals and the divestment process?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I've just received some information about this. I am not personally

familiar with the issue, but I can undertake to look into it on behalf of the member in the absence of the minister.

Let me say that our government has always been very clear that we support community governance and the shift to non-institutional community mental health. This

is an ongoing process. Lots of work has been done over the past two years. We will continue to work to ensure that the shift to community governance will not compromise client needs.

Ms. Martel: It's that very compromising of client needs that the Premier needs to review. Let me share some more concerns with you. The

hospital has said, "The ministry regional staff do not appear to appreciate the clinical and human resource implications for this move, particularly as it relates to the ACT programs." The doctors

and psychiatrists at St. Joseph's have said, "These new actions on the part of the ministry are not in keeping with appropriate clinical care and, in the particular case of ACT services, will have

serious negative consequences for patients and the mental health system."

Your own colleague from Elgin-Middlesex-London, Mr. Peters, has written to the minister on four occasions now and said, "Over the past months, I have met with

various stakeholders who have different perspectives on this matter and I have come to the conclusion that the serious nature of the concerns brought to me and my London-area and southwest region

MPP colleagues deserve to be fully addressed by our government as soon as possible."

Premier, where's the plan to deal with the serious concerns associated with this divestment?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Again, our intention is to ensure that patient needs are in no way compromised by this initiative. I think that patients in

particular and their families can draw some confidence from the fact that our commitment in this area has been very significant. We've invested $185 million over four years to allow 78,600 more

Ontarians to receive care in the community. I understand the concerns raised by the member opposite, but I would ask her to have some confidence in our intention, in our determination to ensure

that we complete this initiative in a way that does not compromise, but indeed enhances, quality of care for patients.

ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): My question is to the Minister of Energy. The public has seen report after report which shows the negative

effect coal has on the health of Ontario's people and its economy -- increased asthma attacks, increased hospital visits, increased sick days, and many of these are linked to the burning of coal.

In fact, I've had a number of parents who have come into my office with their children who have health effects because of this, and they have asked me, is our government still committed to the

closure of coal-burning plants? I've said, "Yes, we are."

Minister, you made an announcement this week about wind energy. I'd like you to share with the House and the people of Ontario how that announcement will

benefit all of us.

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): I'd like to thank the member from Niagara Falls for his question. I'd also like to thank him for

his dedication to his community and his commitment to clean, renewable energy. As you know, within the member's community we have invested $1 billion in a new tunnel for Niagara, which will create

1.6 million kilowatt hours of new, clean, renewable energy for the Niagara region.

I reiterate that our commitment to coal is firm. There is no such thing as clean coal, and there is no question that there is a significant increase in

smog-related respiratory issues, in addition to the climate change challenges that face us. We had 1,000 megawatts that we asked for; we actually received proposals for 2,200 megawatts. Out of

that, we accepted 975 megawatts, eight of which were wind and one was hydroelectric. It adds to the 9,000 currently under way, in addition to the 2,200. We are delighted with our opportunity to

build in this province new generation of clean, renewable energy.

Mr. Craitor: Not only was the announcement a positive step toward replacing coal-burning generation, which will help air quality in Ontario,

it's also good news for our economy. I know that jobs are being created in the Niagara region to help support the need for wind turbines. This proves that we don't have to choose between the

environment, our health and the economy. This proves that we can achieve a balance that will help all three of these areas. Minister, how is our commitment to clean energy creating new jobs and

industries in Ontario?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: Our first 394 megawatts of clean, renewable energy brought in $700 million to this economy; our second request for 975

brought in just under $2 billion to this economy. That's a creation of approximately 5,000 construction jobs and obviously a number of permanent jobs. In addition to that, as I mentioned earlier,

DMI from North Dakota will be locating one of their wind turbine manufacturing plants in Fort Erie. That's 100 jobs, and they are already talking about expansion. We know they've invested in

Ontario because it's a good place to invest, and it's a good place to invest because we have a strong strategy on how we're going to build new generation, maximize our existing generation and

transmission, and create that culture of conservation.

PUBLIC HEALTH

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): In the absence of the Minister of Health, I'm going to direct my question to the Premier. On

October 25, we asked your Minister of Health to guarantee that not one cent of provincial taxpayer money would go to fund drug-consumption sites. He refused to answer the question, saying, "There

is no such proposal before any municipalities in Ontario," and, "There is no ongoing discussion in any jurisdiction in Ontario" that he was aware of.

These discussions are in fact going on in at least two Ontario municipalities. Ottawa is currently conducting a study, and on December 5, Toronto city council

will be considering a request from the board of health to prioritize a needs assessment and feasibility study for consumption sites. Premier, once again, will you guarantee today that not one cent

of provincial money will go to funding these so-called drug-consumption sites?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I appreciate the question, and I'm happy to take it in the absence of the

Minister of Health. My understanding is that this issue is one that falls under the purview of our municipalities and it's up to them to consider these issues. I would fully expect that they would

weigh the advice they get from the police against the advice they might get from community and social workers, and that they would use their very best judgment when they make a call on this. But it

is not the kind of thing over which we have immediate responsibility; it's the kind of thing that fundamentally rests with our municipalities.

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I have this petition signed by many people in my riding:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I support this petition, I sign it and I send it down.

Mr. Mario Sergio (York West): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: During question period, the member from Beaches-East York made a reference to

the area of Jane and Finch because he found a dirty carpet and no hot water in the morning. I would like to say that I take this as a personal --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): That is not a point of order.

Interjection.

The Speaker: The member for York West will come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker: The member for York West -- stop the clock.

Petitions: the member for Scarborough Southwest.

SKILLS TRAINING

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as

follows:

"Whereas the McGuinty government has committed to a new multi-year increase of $6.2 billion in colleges and universities;

"Whereas 178,000 new jobs have been created since the McGuinty government took office;

"Whereas the McGuinty government introduced the apprenticeship tax credit in order to encourage employers to participate in developing a highly skilled

workforce; and

"Whereas the McGuinty government has invested $12.5 million this year to assisting internationally trained individuals gain recognition in order to join the

workforce;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To support the McGuinty government's commitment to ensure that Ontario has the best skilled workforce and the strongest economy."

I support this petition. I affix my signature to it and give it to page Zoë.

HYDRO RATES

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I have a petition from my riding of Durham.

"Whereas electricity is an essential public commodity that must be assured to all residents, including the elderly and people on fixed income;

"Whereas the citizens of the province of Ontario pay more for electricity under Dalton McGuinty's government since they broke their promise to preserve the

price cap on electricity;

"Whereas in April 2004 the Liberals increased the electricity rate to 4.7 cents per kilowatt hour for the first 750 kilowatt hours in a month, and 5.5 cents

for additional hours, and prices are estimated to increase in 2005 to reflect the true cost of electricity," which is more;

"Whereas it is important that the electricity price remain affordable for residential consumers, especially those with low and fixed incomes;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Liberal government commit to enacting income-contingent legislation that will protect residential consumers, especially seniors and individuals on

fixed incomes, from further outrageous price increases" for electricity.

I am pleased to support this on behalf of the vulnerable people in my riding, and present it to Kumail.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

Therefore, "we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental

services sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in

order to live meaningful lives within their community."

I support this petition and I'm happy to sign it.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly. It's similar to a lot of the petitions that have been presented to

the Legislature on behalf of the intellectually disabled community. Hopefully, as more of these petitions come forward, the Minister of Finance will be listening.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my signature.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I'm pleased to join with my colleague the member for Niagara Falls in this petition to the Legislative

Assembly of Ontario, signed by a number of people in the Niagara area. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers treatments for one form of macular degeneration (wet), and there are other forms of macular

degeneration (dry) that are not covered;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration, resulting in loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment costs for this

disease are astronomical for most constituents and add a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should cover treatment for

all forms of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance program."

It's my privilege to support and sign this petition and to ask page Laura to carry it for me.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): "Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable

to participate effectively in community life and are deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my signature to this.

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I have affixed my signature with enthusiasm and send this to the clerk's table with Alexandre Lafontaine.

GO TRANSIT TUNNEL

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I keep getting petitions about the dilapidated bridge at Old Weston Road. It's addressed to the Parliament, the

minister of infrastructure services and the Minister of Transportation, and reads as follows:

"Whereas GO Transit is presently planning to tunnel an area just south of St. Clair Avenue West ... making it easier for GO trains to pass a major rail

crossing;

"Whereas TTC is presently planning a TTC right-of-way along all of St. Clair Avenue West, including the bottleneck caused by the dilapidated St. Clair

Avenue-Old Weston Road bridge;

"Whereas this bridge ... will be: (1) too narrow for the planned TTC right-of-way, since it will have only one lane for traffic; (2) it is not safe for

pedestrians (it's about 50 metres long). It's dark and slopes on both east and west sides creating high banks for 300 metres; and (3) it creates a divide, a no man's land, between Old Weston Road

and Keele Street. (This was acceptable when the area consisted entirely of slaughterhouses, but now the area has 900 new homes);

"Therefore we, the undersigned, demand that GO Transit extend the tunnel beyond St. Clair Avenue West so that trains will pass under St. Clair Avenue West,

thus eliminating this eyesore of a bridge with its high banks and blank walls. Instead it will create a dynamic, revitalized community enhanced by a beautiful continuous cityscape with easy traffic

flow."

I agree with this petition 100% and I'm delighted to sign it.

HEALTH CARE SERVICES

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Liberal government has announced in their budget that they are delisting key health services such as routine eye exams, chiropractic and

physiotherapy services; and

"Whereas abandoning support for these services will place greater demand on other health care sectors such as physicians, emergency wards and after-hours

clinics; and

"Whereas no Ontario citizen should be denied access to necessary medical care because of lack of funds;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To reverse the delisting of eye exams, chiropractic and physiotherapy services and restore funding for those important" services as soon as possible.

I'm pleased to support this on behalf of those persons who can't afford those services that the McGuinty government has delisted.

DIABETES TREATMENT

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I'm pleased to join with my colleague the member from Peterborough in this petition, signed by a number of

people from the Peterborough area. I certainly urge the people in Peterborough to make their petitions with a little bit larger type so that some of us with aging eyes can read them.

It is a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We are suggesting that all diabetic supplies as prescribed by an endocrinologist or medical doctor be covered under the Ontario health insurance plan.

"Diabetes costs Canadian taxpayers $13 billion a year and increasing. It is the leading cause of death and hospitalization in Canada. Many people with diabetes

cannot afford the ongoing expense of managing the disease. They cut corners to save money. They rip test strips in half, cut down on the number of times they test their blood and even reuse lancets

and needles. These cost-saving measures often have tumultuous and disastrous health consequences. Persons with diabetes need and deserve financial assistance to cope with the escalating cost of

managing diabetes.

"We think it is in all Ontario's and the government's best interest to support diabetics with the supplies that each individual needs to obtain optimum glucose

control. Good blood glucose control reduces or eliminates kidney failure by 50%, blindness by 76%, nerve damage by 60%, cardiac disease by 35% and even amputations."

This is a good petition. I am pleased to affix my signature to it and to ask the page, Stephen, to carry it for me.

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): "Whereas four-year-old Allyceea Ennis died while travelling on a school bus on February 12, 2004;

"Whereas the safety of children in the province of Ontario is of utmost importance;

"Whereas Ontario school bus drivers are not required" -- at the present time -- "to have cardiac pulmonary resuscitation (CPR) or first aid training;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ontario Liberal government implement MPP John O'Toole's Bill 162, which would make it mandatory that all applicants for school bus drivers' licences

in the province of Ontario complete a practical examination on CPR and first aid" to put our children's lives in safety.

I'm pleased to sign this on behalf of my constituents and those children in Ontario who need our support.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Hon. David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal, Deputy Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I seek

unanimous consent to move a motion respecting the business of the House for this evening.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Michael Prue): Is there unanimous consent? Agreed. Proceed.

Hon. Mr. Caplan: I thank the members.

I move that, notwithstanding any standing order, the House continue to meet beyond 6 o'clock for the purpose of completing consideration of the motion for

second reading of Bill 210,

An Act to amend the Child and Family Services Act and make complementary amendments to other Acts, following which the Speaker shall adjourn the House until Thursday,

November 24, 2005, at 10 a.m.

The Acting Speaker: Mr. Caplan has moved that, notwithstanding any standing order --

Hon. Mr. Caplan: Dispense.

The Acting Speaker: Dispense. All those in favour? Carried.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

FAMILY STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

DES QUESTIONS FAMILIALES

Mr. Bryant moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 27,

An Act to amend the Arbitration Act, 1991, the Child and Family Services Act and the Family Law Act in connection with family arbitration and related

matters, and to amend the Children's Law Reform Act in connection with the matters to be considered by the court in dealing with applications for custody and access / Projet de loi 27, Loi

modifiant la Loi de 1991 sur l'arbitrage, la

Loi sur les services à l'enfance et à la famille et la

Loi sur le droit de la famille en ce qui concerne l'arbitrage familial et des questions

connexes et modifiant la Loi portant réforme du droit de l'enfance en ce qui concerne les questions que doit prendre en considération le tribunal qui traite des requêtes en vue

d'obtenir la garde et le droit de visite.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Michael Prue): Mr. Bryant.

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I'm pleased to begin second reading of the Family Statute Law Amendment Act, 2005. I'll be sharing my

allotted speaking time today with the minister responsible for women's issues, the Honourable Sandra Pupatello, and the parliamentary assistant to the Attorney General and member for Willowdale,

David Zimmer.

Let me begin by thanking, applauding, acknowledging and recognizing the great work done by the minister responsible for women's issues, Sandra Pupatello, with

whom I've worked on this particular issue for some time now.

The Family Statute Law Amendment Act would, if passed, make changes to the way family law matters are arbitrated in Ontario. The bill would, if passed, amend

and improve the existing Arbitration Act and Family Law Act to ensure that all family law arbitrations are conducted exclusively under Ontario and Canadian law. That would mean resolutions based on

any other laws and principles would not be family arbitrations. They would have no legal effect. They would amount to advice only.

Our government is proposing these changes because we believe that here in Ontario, diverse as we are as a society, we are all equal before the law and under

the law.

Notre gouvernement agit aussi parce qu'il veut mieux protéger ceux qui choisissent de soumettre leurs litiges familiaux à l'arbitrage.

We know that, while these new rules and regulations would make a real difference, it is very important that they be effective. The way they are effective is to

ensure that the people of this province know about them and understand them. So our government is also developing a community outreach and education program to ensure that all Ontarians will better

understand their rights and their choices under Canadian and Ontario family law and family law arbitrations.

The Arbitration Act was introduced on March 27, 1991, by my colleague across the way, the leader of the third party, Howard Hampton, back when he was the

Attorney General. The Arbitration Act, 1991, changed the way arbitrations were conducted in Ontario. It was passed unanimously on November 20, 1991 -- with all-party support. Mr. Hampton stated the

purpose and thinking of the bill when it was introduced. Attorney General Hampton, back then, said this: "Arbitration is a good and accessible method of seeking resolution for many kinds of

disputes. It can be more expedient and less costly than going to court. The parties can design their own procedures and select appropriate arbitrators."

During second reading, future Attorney General Charles Harnick also spoke to the bill. He spoke in favour of the bill, saying, "The effect of the bill will be

that it will take private disputes, civil actions, out of the court system. I think it will offer litigants a faster and less costly solution to their problems, ... free up the courts to do the

work the courts must do and ... give the courts the opportunity to engage in matters that are not conducive to arbitration."

I went through the debate at the time to consider what the purpose of it was. I note that the justice critic for the New Democratic Party did speak against a

part of the bill with respect to labour matters and arbitrations. Mr. Kormos had a concern with the bill -- at least in the version that was before the House, and perhaps it was amended to Mr.

Kormos's satisfaction -- as it affected labour arbitrations. He spoke to that. But I didn't see any of his remarks on family arbitrations, which, to be fair, was because Howard Hampton was the

Attorney General of the day.

The 1991 bill introduced by Mr. Hampton had no regulation-making powers in it. The power to pass regulations was not in the bill. So the suggestion that has

been made recently by the leader of the third party that we could have effected this by way of regulation is not accurate. There were no regulation-making powers in the bill.

Secondly, the leader of the third party now says that the 1991 bill somehow envisions certain protections that we are now bringing forth here today. If those

protections were in that 1991 bill, I don't think we would have had the No Religious Arbitration Coalition, the no shariah law arbitration coalition, and the concern expressed by people around the

world about how the 1991 act was being used.

If that were the case and those protections were in that bill, then we would not have asked Marion Boyd, a former Attorney General under the New Democratic

government, someone who's a former minister responsible for women's issues and someone certainly with some expertise in terms of vulnerable women in her pre-political life, during her political

life and after that. So I don't think it's fair to say that the 1991 bill had those protections in it.

Then the question becomes, what new protections do we need? The proposed changes that we've put forward have been considered closely by many of the people who

have engaged in this issue in a very meaningful way. Since we introduced the bill on November 15, we've received some very esteemed support, and I thank those people for their support and for the

time that they put into this issue.

The No Religious Arbitration Coalition, comprised of over 100 agencies and groups, and a number of individuals have told us that they welcome the proposed

changes. I should also point out that the coalition includes the Canadian Council of Muslim Women, which was one of the leaders in expressing concerns about family arbitrations under the existing

laws. Pamela Cross, the coalition co-chair, says that the coalition is pleased to find substantive legal changes in our bill, which will go a long way to ensuring that women's rights are protected.

Many of the province's top family law lawyers have told us that they support the bill, and have suggested that it is the right way to go.

The Muslim Canadian Congress has also put out a release and indicated their support for this new legislation, calling on both the opposition and the third

party to permit the bill to go to an up-and-down vote in an expeditious fashion.

The Metropolitan Action Committee on Violence Against Women and Children and the Ontario Women's Justice Network believe this is strong and positive law

reform. They say, "This legislation will make a material difference to women and children involved in the resolution of family disputes." They urge all members of the Legislature to support this

bill and ensure that it passes in a timely fashion.

Many of our stakeholders applaud the fact that our proposal would allow for arbitration to remain a cost-effective, timely and accessible dispute resolution

method for Ontarians to use when dealing with family law matters. They tell us they're pleased that our proposal would make a meaningful difference when it comes to protecting vulnerable Ontarians,

namely women and children of this province.

I want to take a moment to address some of the concerns raised, particularly those that have been raised from across the floor. I know that the official

opposition has indicated that they support this bill, but that they feel that the government should have resolved this in a more timely fashion. I hope that same spirit of moving along with due

dispatch applies to their position with respect to the movement of this bill through the Legislature.

It is true that we've been examining this issue very closely. Marion Boyd's review was all in, I believe, some six months long. She heard from almost 50 groups

and dozens of individuals, and presented us with a report containing no less than 46 recommendations. We obviously took the time to review Ms. Boyd's recommendations in her report to create

amendments to the Arbitrations Act that would be effective, address the issues at hand, and make a real and significant difference. A number of her recommendations, at the behest of the advice that

she received in her report, are found in this bill, but we also took the time to review and analyze and consider the input we received from Ontarians subsequent to our receipt of the Boyd report.

We took the time to get it right.

I don't want to let this moment pass without thanking Marion Boyd for not only the time and energy she put into it, but for the public service she put into it.

This, as far as I'm concerned, was a vintage effort from someone who has dedicated herself to these issues her entire life, and I thank her for putting her name in the public arena and taking the

time she did to hear from the people she did in providing the usual exhaustive and thoughtful approach to this issue that she has brought to many others.

We don't believe that banning family law arbitrations is the answer. I should say that we're not alone.

The family bar, including a number of women's advocates, have told us that they want to be able to arbitrate family matters. They say that prohibiting all

forms of family law arbitration would do a disservice to their clients and set family law back some 15 years.

In the Boyd report, and I'm quoting from page 36 here, she writes this: "In one consultation with representatives of the family law

section of the Ontario Bar

Association and the Advocates' Society, the review" -- that is her review -- "was told that removing the option to arbitrate family law matters would, `be a disaster, pushing the development of

family law back 30 years.'" I believe it was Philip Epstein who said that, acknowledged by many as being one of the leading, if not the leading, family lawyer in the province.

During the consultation with the Law Society of Upper Canada, one lawyer made the point that with arbitration, the parties, with the advice of their lawyers,

can choose an arbitrator who is an expert in family law, and pointed out a number of benefits to the family law process.

It's our position that removing family law arbitration altogether would in fact leave our system in a situation where people were not getting appropriate

access to justice. That was the very purpose of the 1991 bill in the first place. The very purpose of the bill was to build upon the principles of alternative dispute resolution and to recognize

that the court was not the only place that could deliver justice to Ontarians.

It was in the name of that that the leader of the third party, then-Attorney General Howard Hampton, introduced that bill, and sold that bill to the

Legislature. Certainly, that was not with respect to just any arbitration; that includes family law arbitrations. I agree with Howard Hampton when he said that "family law arbitrations do provide a

just and appropriate and flexible and timely and accessible way to achieve a result at the end of the dissolution of a relationship that is in the best interests of Ontarians and their

children."

I look forward to the comments from the justice critic and Mr. Hampton as to how they feel about the 1991 bill now, and how they feel about family law

arbitrations altogether.

We have no evidence that family law arbitrations are rendering injustice; no evidence at all. There's nothing in the Boyd report and no one has come forward

and said, "Here are the injustices being visited upon people as a result of family law arbitration." That's why those who work in this area say that getting rid of family law arbitration altogether

would set back our family law system some 15 years. I take that advice.

Some people have expressed concern that this bill, if passed, would allow for the reopening of many cases where spousal support or child custody have been

resolved, sometimes for years. They say our courts will be flooded, the concern is, with people looking to change what's been settled. I want to assure Ontarians there is nothing in this bill that

in fact would effect that, and that this simply will not happen. The bill preserves the right to appeal a family arbitration award, and the parties would not be able to waive that right. They have

to exercise that right within 30 days of the arrival of the arbitration itself. There's no retroactive provision in this bill for appeals or otherwise.

What would change is that family arbitration agreements would be able to be challenged in the courts in the same way that domestic separation agreements can be

challenged under the current law. That's not the way it worked under the 1991 bill. We're bringing the arbitration system under the protections under the Family Law Act.

Arbitration agreements, in that sense, would not be completely and unnecessarily final but could be subject to court review under certain prescribed

circumstances in the same way that separation agreements can. For example, an arbitration agreeme