April 12, 2006 RESOURCE COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Bob Ridgley, MHA for St. John's

North, replaces Harry Harding, MHA for Bonavista North. Shawn Skinner, MHA for

St. John's Centre, replaces Kevin O'Brien, MHA for Gander.

The Committee met at 4:00 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Mr. Ridgley): Order, please!

We are all ready to begin. I would like to welcome everybody here. I would

ask the members of the Committee to introduce themselves, please.

MR. JOYCE: Eddie Joyce, MHA for Bay of Islands.

MR. SKINNER: Shawn Skinner, MHA for St. John's Centre. I am

representing Kevin O'Brien here today.

MR. HUNTER: Ray Hunter, MHA for Windsor-Springdale.

CHAIR: Before we begin debate, I will ask the Clerk to call the first

subhead, please.

CLERK: 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 carry?

I turn it over to the minister for comments and introduction of staff.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, I would just like for my staff to introduce themselves. We will

start with our Deputy Minister.

MR. NORRIS: Gary Norris, Deputy Minister of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation.

MR. MEADE: Brent Meade, Assistant Deputy Minister of Culture and

Recreation.

MS MURPHY: Carmela Murphy, Director of Tourism.

MS RYAN: Juanita Keel Ryan, Director of Tourism Product Development.

MS HILLIER: Susanne Hillier, Director of Communications.

MR. CROCKER: Gerry Crocker, Director of Finance and General Operations.

CHAIR: Before we actually begin the questioning, we have been joined by

Ms Charlene Johnson, who is going to remain with the Committee.

MS JOHNSON: Why not?

Charlene Johnson, MHA for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

CHAIR: She does not have anything else on this afternoon so she is going

to stay us.

MS JOHNSON: I would not say that.

CHAIR: Mr. Joyce.

MR. JOYCE: I didn't know if the minister wanted to have a few opening

remarks.

MR. HEDDERSON: Just a few opening comments, if I could.

First of all, welcome to everyone here this afternoon to have a look at the

department's Estimates and, of course, responsible for three major areas,

which is tourism, culture and recreation. I must report in the year gone by,

that in all three areas we have seen improvement.

We have moved forward in tourism, I guess one of the industries that we are

trying to grow in Newfoundland and Labrador. I am very happy to report that

despite some serious drawbacks with the price of gas, SARS and whatever else

happened over the last number of years, we have still been able to maintain a

steady stream of non-residents into the Province. I am happy to report that last

year our number was totaled at 469,600, which was an increase of 4.5 per cent

over the same period. So, the residents are coming in, even though we are having

some difficulty in some areas. Again, there appears to be a little bit of a

shift on where a lot of the individuals who are coming in are sticking more to

the urban areas than the rural. Of course, we are trying to address that, but

there have been gains. We recognize those gains and also recognize the

challenges as we continue to move forward.

With regard to culture; I am very proud, over the last number of weeks now,

to present the Province's first ever strategic cultural plan with the goal of

protecting our heritage, celebrating our identity and certainly championing our

creativity. We have had a fantastic reaction to it, largely because this

document, Creative Newfoundland and Labrador, The Blueprint for Developing

and Investing in Culture . This plan came, really, from the grassroots. We

worked very, very closely with the communities to put this forward. It has been

in the works now for any number of years. We have stepped forward as well with

an allocation of over $17 million over the next number of years, the next three

years, and this year $8.5 million; $6.3 million in new investment and $2.2

million in continued investment in film and music industries. Again, the

building blocks are there and we hope that as we go forward we will continue to

build on this particular plan.

Under recreation; of course, again, a very key part of our mandate and with

such initiatives as the Premier's Athletic Awards, provincial and Canada Games

and other initiatives, my department provides real encouragement to our

residents to pursue excellence in sports. Not only excellence in sports, but

also to be physically active as we move towards the Wellness Strategy. This

year, on a go forward basis, we would like to put together an overall recreation

strategy, and that is one of the goals that we are putting forward for this

particular year.

Anyway, I know that we want to move on into the Estimates. Again, thank you

for your attendance here today. I turn it back to my colleague across the way.

CHAIR: Thank you, minister.

Mr. Joyce.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, minister.

It is easy to say we are getting a free supper. We have so many members here.

Minister, I will not be long. I just have a few questions to ask. First of

all, before I do, you mentioned something there when you came in. In actual

fact, I did it once publicly and I will do it now in front of your colleagues.

When we were out in Lark Harbour, how gracious you were with the opening of the

school. I mentioned it, I know, in front of a few of my colleagues. When your

name comes up, I have to speak as I find, and you were more than gracious at the

event. Publicly, in front of your colleagues, I thank you again for that.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you very much.

MR. JOYCE: I just have a few questions, Mr. Chairperson. We will not stay

too long.

The exhibition centre in Corner Brook, that was something that was committed

to back in 2003. Is that a dead issue now? Because we hear about all the money,

the (inaudible) funding. We hear about The Rooms, but here we have the fine arts

program out in Corner Brook. We have $300,000 worth of water and sewer in the

ground. I know last year the former minister said that the exhibition centre is

dead. Is there any way to get that back up again or back on the radar screen for

the government?

MR. HEDDERSON: Okay. Just looking at the Corner Brook situation - but, as

you know, that was not under my watch and -

MR. JOYCE: Oh, no.

MR. HEDDERSON: I would not mind passing it to my Assistant Deputy

Minister so he can give us the history on it and then I will probably just make

a comment. If you would?

MR. MEADE: The Corner Brook exhibition centre, as you are aware, Mr.

Joyce, was cancelled in the Budget in 2004. This year's budget introduced a

component of it back, and that was the Corner Brook Museum. The Corner Brook

exhibition centre had an exhibition centre component but it also had, as part of

that project, that we would enhance the Corner Brook Museum to an exhibited

Corner Brook Museum and enhance the environmental standards and controls within

the Corner Brook Museum so that it could host exhibits of its own, as well as

those that would be travelling across the Province, particularly those from The

Rooms. That is as far as the planning is right now. There are no plans right now

in terms of resurrecting the Corner Brook exhibition centre.

MR. HEDDERSON: On that point as well, I would say that there are two

areas we are involved in, specifically in Corner Brook, and that is the museum,

which the Assistant Deputy Minister just referenced, but also we have to look at

our Arts and Culture Centre. Not only the one in Corner Brook, but on a go

forward basis we are looking to put together a strategy and a consultation this

year with regard to where we are moving with the arts and culture centres. It is

a beautiful facility out there with all sorts of potential, especially for

exhibit space. As a matter of fact, it is used now to exhibit some paintings and

things at different times. So, we are dealing with what we have right now. In

the future, I do not know if any proposals will come forward for a resurrection

of that particular project. We are moving forward with what we have in the hopes

that it can cater to some of the needs that you have identified.

MR. JOYCE: The reason is because the commitment was made, and (inaudible)

fine arts building in Corner Brook, as you know, and there is a lot of water and

sewer work already completed; $300,000 of water and sewer in the ground. It will

be great for the Corner Brook area.

About the $125,000, any addition is good but the way it was out in Corner

Brook is that the City of Corner Brook owns that building. The MOGs were cut by

about $140,000 in the city. The City of Corner Brook got $125,000 for the

museum. The mayor was in the paper in Corner Brook talking about how it was

going to be placed, to buy a new furnace and do other things to do up the city

building. The perception is not that it is totally to what you just explained

there, to make the facility so you can have different kinds of art or have a

controlled setting. That was never outlined, and it is a city building. The

mayor, publicly, the day after, said the city had decided now how they are going

to spend the money. So, it is definitely not perceived the way it was passed on

to me just then.

MR. NORRIS: Mr. Joyce, this is the first I have heard of that, but we

will certainly go back to Mayor Pender and have a discussion and make sure there

is an understanding of what that money is for.

MR. JOYCE: I could show you in The Western Star where he said they

are going to replace the furnace.

MR. NORRIS: As Brent Meade has said, the intent is to upgrade the

environmental standards. So certain exhibits travelling from The Rooms, for

example, can actually be shown out there, which right now they cannot be.

MR. JOYCE: But that was never explained whatsoever, the money, and that

was in The Western Star the next day.

MR. NORRIS: Well, we will have a chat with Mayor Pender on that.

MR. JOYCE: Yes, and I could even afford a copy of the

article to you.

That is why I was skeptical with the MOGs being cut in Corner Brook by about

$140,000. The city building they have, which they maintain themselves - and then

the mayor is out saying that the city has to decide how they are going to spend

the money and they are going to, at least, buy a new furnace. It leads me to

believe that it is not a lot to do with the culture part of it.

MR. HEDDERSON: Just to clarify again, is that the money - we have made a

two-year commitment, I believe, and it is three-twenty-five over two years, and

to make sure that we get the exhibition space within that building up to scratch

so that they can accept exhibits from The Rooms or from anywhere else, that is

point one. Also, the interpretative part of it, because we find, not only in

that museum, but in museums right across the Province, that we need to get it

out of the 1970s now and get it into the twenty-first Century. Not only that

museum, but others as well, because we have something like fourteen sites around

that we are putting money into, for the

interpretation, the exhibit and

otherwise. We engage with the council because, obviously, they did make

representation to our department, and it was our understanding that they

understood where we were going with it. But as a point of clarification, we will

follow up on it and get back to the mayor and council to see what (inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: Yes, and I will send them the article. That is the first I

have heard of it, the climate control area for the exhibition. So, thank you for

that.

The film industry; as we all know, there is a big splash, a million dollar

film industry out in Corner Brook and it is still in storage out in the Pepsi

Centre. Are there any new developments on it, because there is a $1.1 million

announcement? They have all the equipment out there. I think last year they were

going to do some kind of a film at Marble Mountain but they could not do it

because they could not get control of the mountain or something. So, they moved

out and moved on to Ontario to do it. Are you familiar with that?

MR. HEDDERSON: Just as a response to the facility and that. I think it

was put together in 2003, if I am not mistaken, and there were two components of

it. One was the stationary film studio that could be adapted, sets could be

adapted and put up. I think Life With Derek was the first one that was

done in there within that, but another important component was the fact that

there is a mobile unit. That is where a lot of the equipment is, I guess. There

is a lot of equipment so that they can go out around and go to any part of the

Province and carry out productions; what they could not do before. So, it does

give the capacity for film production crews to come into Newfoundland and

Labrador and be able to film anywhere in Newfoundland and Labrador, indoors or

out. That equipment, the mobile unit, has been used extensively.

I am just going to get my assistant deputy minister to go down through the

number of things that they have been - so it has been very successful. The

capacity is there, and on a go forward basis, the various parts of the film

industry are ever trying to market Newfoundland and Labrador. Where they have

the capacity - and the best capacity, I might add, this side of Montreal. The

capacity is there. The people who are needed to carry out the production are

there. Everything is there, it is just that we have to convince the production

companies in the greater mainland to come in and use Newfoundland and Labrador.

I will past it along to my assistant deputy minister, just to go down through

some of the ways in which they have been used.

MR. MEADE : The mobile unit in Corner Brook was used to film, last year

for example, in Trinity, Gander, Petty Harbour and in St. John's. Now, I know

the question is more filming in Corner Brook. Certainly, when the Film

Development Corporation goes out and promotes Newfoundland and Labrador's

location for shooting, they promote Newfoundland and Labrador and the locations

therein. In fact, they have a promo reel they show, which shows locations

throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

Where a film shoots really needs to fit with what the story is about, what

the film is about, et cetera. The fact of the matter is, Corner Brook is very

well positioned because of its capacity. It has a sound stage, it has the

equipment there, but it also has the services that can service the sector.

The thing with the film industry, and where it shoots, is very cyclical. I

mean, it can be up and down. It really depends on the type of films that are

wanting to be shot, the type of activity and whatnot. Corner Brook is certainly

one of the key elements that they promote, and the sound studio is one of the

key elements. The Film Development Corporation promotes film and promotes

locations in Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

MR. HEDDERSON: There is just one point. You indicated that they did not

get access to the hill. I am not aware of that, so we would like for you just to

MR. JOYCE: No, that was last year. What happened was, they were going to

shoot some film - they were doing some part of the film and they needed the ski

hill part - and apparently it was a busy time for the ski hill and they could

not get access. How much access they need, I am not sure, or when.

MR. HEDDERSON: To be honest, we haven't heard anything about that. I

guess we could follow up and just see -

MR. JOYCE: They went outside the Province on it. I don't know if they

needed it on the weekend - I am not sure - but it was a bit of an issue out in

Corner Brook.

MR. HEDDERSON: Our understanding was that, with Life With Derek ,

was it?, that we had hoped that they would continue filming that series here in

Newfoundland and Labrador but, for some reason, because it was the busy ski

season and that, and all the production crew that had to be in that area at that

time, there was some question about the capacity of the accommodations. That may

have played a

part in them not going there, and that is what we investigated.

Again, with regard to access to the ski hill - because, as you know, Marble

Mountain is a Crown corporation and -

MR. JOYCE: That is why I found it -

MR. HEDDERSON: That is why I find it - because, if it had to come to our

attention, you can be sure that we would have done everything that we could, so

there was a breakdown there somewhere, and if you could, from your source, let

them come -

MR. JOYCE: It was public.

MR. HEDDERSON: Okay. Was that a -

MR. JOYCE: That was out in Corner Brook.

MR. HEDDERSON: We will just have to follow up on it. Again, if you have

something in the way of an

article or something in your files, we would

appreciate you sending it over to us.

MR. JOYCE: Not a problem.

The Arts and Culture Centre in Corner Brook - I was asked to bring up this

concern - the swimming pool area has been dropped down a bit. I do not think

they can hold now because there were certain - the starting boards that they are

on are down a bit, the lines that they use for their avenues. They cannot hold a

provincial tournament in Corner Brook now because the Arts and Culture swimming

pool, the standard has dropped a bit.

OFFICIAL: I haven't heard a peep about that.

MR. HEDDERSON: Again, we depend on our managers and that to report back

to us any concerns that come from the community, whether in performance space or

recreational space.

MR. JOYCE: About two weeks ago the pool, some of them couldn't swim

because there was heat and steam in there and they could not see. It was shut

down.

MR. HEDDERSON: That could very well be. That is something that we would

check on.

MR. JOYCE: The equipment there is not up to spec now, provincial specs.

The Corner Brook Swim Club is pretty big and pretty active.

MR. HEDDERSON: As you know, we have done some capital investment in our

buildings and we are trying to go down through the priorities. Some delayed

maintenance over the years has caused some difficulties and we have identified -

especially two - I think the one here in St. John's and the one in

Stephenville, but the one in Corner Brook does have some upgrades required, as

you have pointed out, and we are working through those. That one, to be honest

with you, has not come to our attention, which we are going to check on.

MR. JOYCE: The swimming pool, some parents asked me would I raise it.

MR. HEDDERSON: Have they reported it to the manager, do you think?

MR. JOYCE: I think they are in contact with the manager. I don't know

what is -

MR. HEDDERSON: That is who we would work through.

MR. JOYCE: I don't know if there is a bit of friction there with some

of the swim club and the staff. I don't know.

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes.

MR. JOYCE: But, there are issues there about the equipment in the pool.

MR. HEDDERSON: Is that the only pool in Corner Brook?

MR. JOYCE: No, Grenfell College has one.

MR. HEDDERSON: Okay.

MR. JOYCE: Then, again, that is limited access.

MR. HEDDERSON: This is the more public accessible one.

MR. JOYCE: Yes. This is the one that they usually swim out of. I think

they need the lanes, the ropes for the lanes; they need that done also. I think

they are a bit old and (inaudible).

MR. HEDDERSON: Okay.

MR. JOYCE: Minister, is it too late this year for - I know in 2003-2004,

actually, the increase in fees to the parks -

MR. HEDDERSON: That does not fall under our jurisdiction. That would fall

under -

MR. JOYCE: It would, due to tourism. It may not be under your

jurisdiction but it affects tourism.

MR. HEDDERSON: Okay.

You would want to lobby for it?

MR. JOYCE: Yes, just to try to decrease the fees, the access to the

parks. Even out our way, Blow Me Down Park, where people go in now, it costs

money just to go in and walk around, just to go through. Even people who stay in

there in their trailers, do laundry, showers, they have to pay for everything. A

lot of people do not spend as much time there now, or a lot of families do not,

because of the -

MR. HEDDERSON: They were doing some upgrades, I know.

MR. JOYCE: I just bring that to your attention.

MR. HEDDERSON: My Deputy Minister just wants to have a word on it.

MR. NORRIS: I know, Mr. Joyce, when the parks fell under the ambit of our

Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, the issue always was that

provincial parks, and fees that we were charging, were somewhat less than the

private park operators were charging, and that caused a bit of friction. The

challenge, I think, our colleagues in Environment and Conservation would have

is, if they lowered the fees, it may come against the private park operators who

would probably kick up a bit of a fuss. That would be the challenge on that one,

I think.

MR. JOYCE: Another thing, Minister - I was asked by a few people in my

caucus to raise this - is the ferry rates. The Premier wrote the Prime Minister

asking for a 15 per cent reduction in the ferry rates coming across with Marine

Atlantic, but yet in the last three years we see a 26 per cent increase in the

ferry rates for people travelling the Province.

Do you find it a bit ironic that on one hand we are asking the federal

government to decrease the ferry rates to increase tourism and we, in tourism

itself, trying to promote tourism, people travel around the Province and we have

a 26 per cent increase in the ferry rates in the Province.

MR. HEDDERSON: I think that question was brought up in the House.

MR. JOYCE: It was.

MR. HEDDERSON: I believe the minister responded to him, in looking at the

proportion that it is. I do not know the exact figures, and I would not want to

just go off the top of my head, but I would have to again refer to that

department and say that we feel it is competitive in the sense of the

proportion. I will just leave it at that.

MR. JOYCE: The tourism figures for last year, do you guys have them now

for 2005, the tourism numbers?

MR. HEDDERSON: Our tourism numbers have been calculated and, yes, they

are available.

MR. JOYCE: Are they in the public domain yet, or still within the

department?

MR. HEDDERSON: They are available, if that is what you mean.

MR. JOYCE: Would you be able to get me a copy of the tourism ones?

OFFICIAL: They are on-line now.

MR. HEDDERSON: Are they on-line?

OFFICIAL: Yes.

MR. HEDDERSON: They are on-line. They would be on-line now.

MR. JOYCE: Okay.

MR. HEDDERSON: Do you still want a copy of them?

MR. JOYCE: Yes, please.

MR. HEDDERSON: We will take care of that for you.

MR. NORRIS: I just want to raise one point. I guess we will do a little

bit of bragging on that one.

As the minister said in his opening remarks, the non-resident numbers are up

4.5 per cent. When you look to Nova Scotia, they dropped 4 per cent to 5 per

cent; P.E.I. was up, I think, 1 per cent; and I think New Brunswick are pretty

well even. Last year, I have to say, was a pretty good year for us compared to

our Atlantic colleagues.

MR. JOYCE: I am not sure if it is under Tourism - it may not be - guiding

in the Province.

MR. HEDDERSON: Outfitters?

MR. JOYCE: Yes.

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes.

MR. JOYCE: It is the regulation. I will tell you the situation that

someone asked me to bring up again. It is a concern; I am not sure if it is

under Tourism. A person from the United States, who has three pieces of property

here, living here six months of the year, if he wants to go trout fishing he

needs a guide if it is within, I think, forty metres from his cabin or

something. Is there any way to get around that? Like, the person is here six

months and the only way to get it is to be classified as a resident. He will

have to apply to get dual residency to be able to fish, when he has three cabins

here. His family is here. Six months of the year he is living here. So when he

wants to go trout fishing, he has to go hire a guide or not go trout fishing.

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes. Obviously, it gets back to the residency requirements

and whether or not a person wants to make that leap to become a resident of the

Province.

I am going to defer it to my officials. I do not know - Juanita, do you want

to respond to that, just to give (inaudible) details.

MS KEEL RYAN: Actually, the legislation is with Environment and

Conservation in terms of the guide services in the Province. It has been

reviewed on several occasions, but because there is such a large number of

non-resident Newfoundlanders who come back year-after-year to go fishing as

well, unless you are a resident, it is has been decided, I guess by that

department and through the regulations, that it will stay in place as it is

right now. The numbers we would be dealing with would be really significant if

we had to look at allowing, basically, anyone who is coming in that has

residence here or contacts here, or had been expatriate Newfoundlanders to come

back and fish at will.

MR. JOYCE: Is it a requirement - I know it is not your department, and I

appreciate that.

MS KEEL RYAN: Sure.

MR. JOYCE: Is it a requirement that you become a Canadian citizen or just

own property? Like, if I own property in York Harbour, I am a resident of York

Harbour. I may not live there but I am a resident. Is that one of the

requirements, because they do have three pieces of property? It is not just home

for two weeks in the middle of a holiday to go fishing.

MS KEEL RYAN: It is my understanding you have to be a resident, not just

own property, because there are quite a few people who own property in the

Province who are not residents.

MR. JOYCE: Okay. Thank you.

MS KEEL RYAN: You are welcome.

MR. JOYCE: Minister, recreation in the Province. I know your department

is taking great strides towards it, and keep it up, because it is something that

we all need to promote, is recreation in our youth.

Out in the Corner Brook area, I know the City of Corner Brook put in a master

plan for recreation. Is there any discussion on that yet?

MR. HEDDERSON: I didn't catch -

MR. JOYCE: The City of Corner Brook put in a master plan for their

recreation for the whole City of Corner Brook. I got a copy about three months

ago.

MS KEEL RYAN: Did that come our way?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: Not sent in?

MR. HEDDERSON: Did they put that into us? When was it done?

MR. JOYCE: About three months I got a copy from the city saying that they

completed their master plan and forwarded it to the -

MR. NORRIS: Mr. Joyce, I think the city was, certainly, looking to

acquire property from the Roman Catholic Church out there to build a complex, a

baseball field and other amenities, but I have not seen the proposal myself. I

do not know if Jim Tee, our Director of Recreation, has seen it. If he has, I

would be surprised that he hasn't brought it to our attention.

MR. JOYCE: No, and I received a letter saying that they have it done in a

form to the department for (inaudible) to the government. That is all I - I have

no follow up on it, but I -

MR. NORRIS: We can check on that for you and get back to you and let you

know, if it is in the system, where it is.

MR. JOYCE: Minister, I know most years - and I am sure there is this year

- there are applications for special grants. I know in my district there are one

or two in Gillams who are trying to do up their baseball field. It might cost

them $2,000 or $3,000 and some other group may - Mount Moriah, for example. I

know every district usually gets $2,000. Are there any other applications

outside that, that I can get my hands on and forward to those - why is the

deputy minister laughing?

MR. NORRIS: I am always at it. Is it that obvious?

MR. HEDDERSON: As you know, Mr. Joyce, the 2005 Community Recreation

Development Grant Program, which, I guess, every MHA is entitled to $2,000 per

district. Now, that does not preclude - there is more money in that vote over

and above that $2,000 for each district. So it does not preclude coming in, from

time to time, and making a pitch and being reassessed.

MR. JOYCE: Is there a formal application that -

MR. HEDDERSON: Those compliments at the beginning for me go a long way.

MR. JOYCE: They are not compliments, they are facts.

MR. HEDDERSON: Pardon?

MR. JOYCE: They are facts.

MR. HEDDERSON: What we do is, of course - it is not a big pot of money

but we try to help out some of the smaller groups, as you pointed out, and we

welcome any group to put an application in through a request. We deal with the

requests as they come in.

MR. JOYCE: Is there a formal application, Gary, that I can get my hands

on?

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes, there would be a formal application.

MR. JOYCE: Will you send some out to my office in Corner Brook?

MR. NORRIS: Okay.

MR. JOYCE: It is P. O. Box 2006.

MR. NORRIS: Okay.

MR. HEDDERSON: Are there other grants available or - the rest might go

through Municipal or ITRD or whatever, but that is just a pot that we have to

try and move things along.

MR. JOYCE: I heard it was there.

MR. NORRIS: (Inaudible). I am just looking at the grants here now. They

are all small sums. Usually when somebody comes in looking for a big sum of

money, even if it is $5,000 or $10,000, we will usually push them over.

I think looking down through the grants, I think Mr. Joyce knows how to

apply.

MR. JOYCE: As Charlene mentioned, it is good when you leverage them with

federal grants. It is a good idea.

MR. HEDDERSON: Is she feeding you questions?

MS JOHNSON: I said it is good when you leverage them with federal grants.

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes.

MR. JOYCE: Okay, that is all the questions I have. Minister, thank you

and your staff. I know the staff out in Corner Brook that I deal with and in St.

John's - I deal with Jimmy a lot - it is always a pleasure to deal with the

officials in the department.

MR. HEDDERSON: I recognize your background, especially in recreation and

sport. On that as well, we are hoping that with our strategy we are going to be

moving forward in more of a wellness - not with the exclusion of sport and that,

but I think you have recognized, as I have recognized, we came up through the

1970s and 1980s, and we recognize now that our demographics are changing and we

have to address our senior citizens, our middle aged and more on wellness.

Hopefully, we will, through our consultations with the sports organizations and

other organizations, that we will be able to put together a good strategy that

is going to serve us in the years to come.

I think what you are going to see next year is much like we did in Culture,

to really put down where we need to go and to put the proper investment into

recreation as well. Infrastructure is a national concern, and the Ministers of

Education have identified that as one of the key components in our ask, I guess,

to the federal government. Later on, I think in June, I will be meeting with the

other ministers and the federal minister in hopes that we can move forward in

different ways.

Again, thank you very much for your input today.

MR. JOYCE: Just in closing, Mr. Chairman. I came through in the 1980s and

1990s, not the 1960s and 1970s.

MR. HEDDERSON: Oh, yeah. I did not box with you but I played basketball

against you.

CHAIR: Are there any further questions from the Committee?

In that case, we will move ahead with our couple of items of housekeeping. I

will ask the Clerk to call the subheads.

CLERK: 1.1.01 to 5.1.01, inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall subheads 1.1.01 to 5.1.01 inclusive, carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 5.1.01 carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the total carried?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

On motion, totals carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation carried without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads,

carried.

CHAIR: Minister, I assume there are no further comments. All done?

MR. HEDDERSON: I just want to thank the committee again, and my

officials, for coming out tonight and taking care of this piece of business.

CHAIR: I would like to thank the committee as well and, of course, the

minister for a very light, but informative afternoon. Some of these sessions we

have had have been much more duration - I am sorry, thank you. Once again the

Clerk brings me to my taps here.

The other item of housekeeping is to pass the minutes of this morning's

meeting. I would like to entertain a motion that the minutes of the Estimates of

the Department of Environment and Conservation be carried.

A motion, please.

MR. SKINNER: So moved.

CHAIR: Mr. Hunter, you are pointing to Mr. Skinner. Moved by, Mr.

Skinner.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Motion to adjourn?

Moved by Mr. Hunter.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: We are adjourned.

Thank you very much.

On motion, Committee adjourned.