British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, October 19, 2004

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

5th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, October 19, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Volume 26, Number 11 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC 5TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations ...............................................................................................................Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Deputy Premier and Minister of Advanced Education .......................................................................................................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries..................................................................................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations............................................................................. Hon.

Geoff Plant, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for Early Childhood Development...................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services ................................................................................................ Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of State for Immigration and Multicultural Services..............................................................................................Hon. Patrick Wong Minister of State for Women's and Seniors' Services................................................................................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of Energy and Mines...............................................................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Minister of Finance.........................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Gary Collins Minister of Forests................................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of State for Forestry Operations.................................................................................................................................. Hon. Roger Harris Minister of Health Services.........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health and Addiction Services ................................................................................................Hon. Brenda Locke Minister of Human Resources........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Susan Brice Minister of Management Services ............................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Joyce Murray Minister of Provincial Revenue.................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General...................................................................................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour......................................................................................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Minister of Small Business and Economic Development ...............................................................................................................Hon. John Les Minister of Sustainable Resource Management ....................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Resort Development.......................................................................................................... Hon.

Armando (Sandy) Santori Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection ............................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker ............................................................................................................................................................................. Dr. John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ..................................................................................................................................................................Joy K.

MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.............................................................................................................................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ................................................................................................................................... E.

George MacMinn, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hans ard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 73; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 3; Vacant 1 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Anderson, Rev. Val (L) .......................................................... Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L)....................................................................................North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ..............................................................................East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................... Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L)..........................................

Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L) ........................................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Brenzinger, Elayne (Ind. L)...........................................................Surrey-Whalley Brice, Hon. Susan (L)...................................................................... Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L) ................................................. Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) .............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .........................................................

Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Clark, Christy (L) .............................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ................................................................................Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon.

Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon. Gary (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) ............................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon.

Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Greg (L) ............................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)..............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Hon. Roger (L) ................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon.

Sindi (L) ........................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ..................................................................................... Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)..............................................................

Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L) ................................................................ Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................ Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)....................................................................

Chilliwack-Sumas Locke, Hon. Brenda (L) .................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) .................................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)......................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................. Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy K. (NDP) .......................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) ..............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ..................................................................................... Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L)............................................................. New Westminster Nebbeling, Ted (L)..................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind.

L) ...................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) ....................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L).....................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Orr, Sheila (L) .............................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)......................................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Plant, Hon.

Geoff, QC (L).................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Judith (L)....................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................

Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).......................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Armando (Sandy) (L) ........................... West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Lynn (L).................................................................................... Langley Stewart, Ken (L)........................................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L)........................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L)..................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)..................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon.

John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L)...................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, Dr. John (L) ................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Katherine (L)............................................. North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, Dr. John (L)........................................................................Cariboo North Wong, Hon.

Patrick (L).....................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ........................................................................ Gillian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T.

Lee Burnaby-Edmonds.............................................................................. Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North...............................................................................Dr.

John Wilson Cariboo South........................................................................................Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ................................................................................ Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke .....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .........................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Delta North.............................................................................................Reni Masi Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .....................................................................................Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon.

Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson.......................................................... Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country ...........................................................Dr. John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ...................................................................Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley........................................................................................... Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca.......................................................................

Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................... Ken Stewart Nanaimo .............................................................................................Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville..............................................................................Judith Reid Nelson-Creston......................................................................... Blair F.

Suffredine New Westminster .................................................................... Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast .......................................................................................... Bill Belsey North Island.......................................................................................... Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale .................................................... Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour ..............................................................

Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain......................................................Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood ....................................................................Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast............................................................Harold Long Prince George North .........................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .................................................................

Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre ...................................................................Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ........................................................... Hon. Geoff Plant, QC Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South............................................................................. Hon. Susan Brice Shuswap ................................................................................

Hon. George Abbott Skeena .......................................................................................Hon. Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers............................................................Hon.

Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ..................................................................................Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge..............................................................................Vacant Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ........................................................................ Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock..........................................................................

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview..................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Vancouver-Fraserview ..................................................................... Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings.................................................................... Joy K. MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington ........................................................... Hon. Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway............................................................................

Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara................................................................. Rev. Val Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon.

Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ...............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.....................................................................................Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary ...................................Hon. Armando (Sandy) Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................

Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .....................................................................................Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Tuesday, October 19, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 11557 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 11557 Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 3), 2004 (Bill 74) Hon. G.

Plant Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 11557 Victoria harbour terminal project J. Bray Quality of life in B.C. R. Nijjar Rural B.C. economy B. Bennett Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 11559 Problem gambling and role of Minister of State for Mental Health and Addiction Services J. MacPhail Hon. R. Coleman Hon. B.

Locke Facility for former addicts and mentally ill in Vancouver J. Kwan Hon. B. Locke Legal aid funding P. Nettleton Hon. G. Plant Addiction services in Surrey D. Hayer Hon. B. Locke Facility for former addicts and mentally ill in Vancouver J. Kwan Hon. B. Locke Auto theft and bait car program M. Hunter Hon. R. Coleman Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 11562 Motor Vehicle Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 66) Hon. R. Coleman Hon. G. Plant K. Krueger J. Bray J. MacPhail D.

Jarvis B. Penner K. Johnston Hon. R. Coleman Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 11575 Land Title and Survey Authority Act (Bill 68) Hon. G. Abbott Reporting of Bills ............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 11577 Land Title and Survey Authority Act (Bill 68)

Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................... ................................................... 11577 Land Title and Survey Authority Act (Bill 68) Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 11577 Expropriation Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 67) Hon. G.

Plant Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ......................................... 11578 Expropriation Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 67) Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 11578 Trespass Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 72) J. Kwan Hon. G. Plant J. Bray

11557 TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 The House met at 2:04 p.m. Introductions by Members J. Bray: It is my pleasure to introduce a number of gentlemen in the gallery today. We have Michael Cormier, who is the CEO of the Greater Victoria Har- bour Authority. We have Lorne Whyte, who is the CEO of Tourism Victoria. We have John Sanderson, who was one of the originators of our Greater Victoria Har- bour Authority. We have Bruce Carter from the Greater Victoria Chamber of Commerce, and we have Steven Seltzer from the Greater Victoria Chamber of Com- merce.

These are individuals who work very hard in Victoria to make us one of the strongest economies in the country as well as one of the great tourism draws for the province. I'd ask the House to please make them all very welcome. [1405] G.

Hogg: On this most auspicious day, we have three special guests from Surrey–White Rock in the gallery: Clark Shewfelt, who is a renowned shuffle- board player, a volunteer and an affectionado of Casey at the Bat ; Nancy Shewfelt, who is a renowned golfer, community worker and today a birthday celebrant; and Mark Shewfelt, who is a renowned student and this past summer played for Team Canada at the Cal Ripkin World Series in Maryland, representing our province and country extremely well. Would the House please make these th ree distinguished British Columbians most welcome. Hon. G.

Plant: It has taken only eight and a half years, but at long last I have the pleasure of saying that we are joined in the legislative gallery today by my neighbours and very good friends, Craig and Lynn Jones, who have brought alon g as their escort my part- ner in life and my most valuable supporter, my wife Janet. I hope the House will make these people welcome. Hon. R. Thorpe: I'd like to introduce executives from the Automotive Retailers Association of British Columbia, in Victoria today to meet with members and ministers, and wish them well in their meetings.

I'd like to introduce the president, Michael Bailey; the vice- president, Randy Sorley; the secretary-treasurer, Dave Cant; and the division chai r, Paul McFarlane. Would the House please make them welcome. Mr. Speaker: There's more. Hon. R. Thorpe: I've got some more, Mr. Speaker. In the gallery today visiting us from Summerland are 30 students from Summ erland Secondary School, obviously located in the gr eat riding of Okanagan- Westside. They're here with their teachers today. Would the House please make them welcome to Victo- ria.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills MISCELLANEOUS STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT (No. 3), 2004 Hon. G. Plant presented a message from Her Hon- our the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Miscella- neous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 3), 2004. Hon. G. Plant: I m o v e t h a t t h e b i l l b e i n t r o d u c e d and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. G. Plant: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 74, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 3), 2004. Bill 74 amends various statutes to clarify provi- sions, correct inadvertent errors and make a number of minor housekeeping amendments. Thank goodness for that, Mr.

Speaker.

Specifically, Bill 74 amends the following statutes: Community Charter; Communi ty Charter Transitional Provisions, Consequential Amendments and Other Amendments Act, 2003 — always one of my favourite statutes; Court Rules Act; Environmental Management Act; Gaming Control Act; Medicare Protection Act; Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2004; Motor Vehicle Act — I thought we already did that one; Mu- nicipalities Enabling and Validating Act (No. 3); Per- sonal Information Protection Act; Police Act; Protected Areas of British Columbia Act; Securities Act, 2004; Strata Property Act; and Vancouver Charter.

There was a minor provision that is untitled, which has to do with the status of the official opposition, but I didn't think it was worth referring to at this point. Interjection. Hon. G. Plant: It was a House amendment. I will elaborate on these amendments during sec- ond reading and committee stage debate. For now, I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for consideration at the next sitting of the House after to- day. Bill 74 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) VICTORIA HARBOUR TERMINAL PROJECT J. Bray: Mr. Speaker, as you know, the Legislature is framed by one of the world's most beautiful har- bours — the Victoria harbour. This is a harbour with history. It is where the colony of Vancouver Island first rose up with Fort Victoria's legacy only a few blocks from here.

11558 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 With the creation of the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority a few years ago, this working harbour is now locally and democratically controlled for the bene- fit of the region. It is also one of the key points of entry for tourists to Vancouver Island. This year Victoria saw a record 143 cruise ships visit. With the Legislature, the world-famous Empress Hotel and the Royal B.C. Museum, along with kayak operations and the little harbour ferries, Victoria's har- bour is becoming a world-class tourism draw.

The last need identified by the city and the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority is an upgrade to the Belleville Street terminal. [1410] This ferry terminal is the Island's gateway to the U.S. It is in fact our border, but the facilities, which include a very old dock and portables that act as check- in buildings and customs and clearance centres, are obsolete. This facility acts as our U.S visitors' first and last sights of Victoria and British Columbia. With our gov- ernment's commitment to double Tourism B.C.'s mar- k e t i n g b u d g e t , m o r e U . S . v i s i t o r s w i l l p i c k B .

C . a n d Victoria as their destination. After all, Condé Nast magazine recently picked Victoria as the best city in the Americas and Vancouver Island as the best island in the Americas. This world-class reputation demands world-class facilities, and the final piece in Victoria's arsenal is the Belleville Street terminal. This $16 million project has the broad endors ement of the Greater Vic- toria Harbour Authority, the city, the chamber of commerce and Tourism Victoria. For Victoria to be a full partner in doubling tourism by 2015, this strategic infr astructure investment is needed.

Completion of the Belleville Street terminal will ensure that Victoria is an economic driver in the province for a generation to come. I urge the provincial government to work with the federal government and local government to ensure that this significant project goes forward. QUALITY OF LIFE IN B.C. R. Nijjar: We have the best in almost everything right here in British Columbia. We are not only ranked as the most livable place on Earth, but we are also be- ginning to believe in our dreams once again.

Union executives would have you believe that our post-secondary education system and the 25,000 new spaces for students aren't a good thing. They would have you believe that a post-secondary education sys- tem independently ranked as one of the most accessible for people of lower socioeconomic backgrounds has not been a good thing. Our universities and colleges rank at the top across the country, leading North America in research that spins off into commercial companies employing thou- sands of British Columbians.

We are the best place in the world to further one's education, and we are going to be the most literate place on Earth by 2010. Why do we do this? Because a strong education system is the backbone of a sustainable and healthy economy that offers a good living for everyone right here in B.C. Today British Columbians are more optimistic about their future than in any place in Canada, includ- ing Alberta. More people are coming back to B.C. than i n y e a r s . I f t h i s i s n ' t a t elling story, then nothing is. Forget what politicians say from either side of the Leg- islature.

In 1997 people were leaving B.C. for the first time ever. Now they are co ming back by the thou- sands. Doctors across Canada rank B.C. and Alberta as the provinces in which they'd most like to practise, because of the healthy relationship with government. We have the best cancer outcomes in the country and through- out the world. Nine of 13 wait-lists have come down, this at a time of an aging population. But it doesn't stop here. MSP costs remain the low- est across the country and are astoundingly affordable compared to other countries.

Our Pharmacare program is considered the most generous in the country and is the envy of the world. Wages are increasing at a faster rate than the na- tional average. Disposable income is increasing faster than the national average. More people are working for more than $16 an hour than anywhere in Canada. And of course, jobs, jobs and jobs — more than any other province — created right here in British Columbia. RURAL B.C. ECONOMY B. Bennett: Carole James was recently in the Kootenays saying that there are two economies in Brit- ish Columbia.

It seems that the NDP leader thinks that our economy in rural B.C. is inferior to the lower mainland's. If she knew anything about rural B.C., she would know that our economy in the East Kootenay — where I'm from — is generating the same good-news stories we've been hearing from the lower mainland. Take real estate. The hyperactive B.C. real estate industry has moved $2 billion worth of properties in each of the last nine consec utive months. In all four of my communities in the East Kootenay — Elkford, Sparwood, Fernie and Cranbrook — houses are selling fast, and they're selling for more.

That 32 percent increase ov er last year in the ex- ports of wood products from B.C. — East Kootenay loggers, millworkers and thei r families are all sharing in that good news as well. The East Kootenay coal industry is booming as well. The Elk Valley mines have regained their confi- dence in British Columbia and are reinvesting and hir- ing new workers. Mining exploration will triple in the East Kootenay this year, thanks to the work of the gov- ernment and the Minister of State for Mining. Interjections. B. Bennett: He must have known that was coming. The tourism industry.

Ski and golf resort investors from around the world are literally bumping into each other looking for development opportunities. Greg

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11559 Norman is developing a course in Fernie called Black- stone that will rival any course in the province. [1415] Try to hire a tradesperson in Cranbrook. You can't. They're all too busy. Auto sales — up. Non-residential building construction — B.C. has the second-strongest rate in the country. Look at the new stores in Cran- brook: Winners, Wal-Mart, Real Canadian Superstore, Staples — a huge home-building supplies expansion. These corporations would not invest millions in our region unless they saw a bright future.

Yesterday the National Post confirmed what my constituents already know, even if Carole James does not: "Canada's western-most province seems finally to have recovered from the mismanagement that plagued it during the 1990s…. While no government ever de- serves all the credit for good economic news, Mr. Campbell's Liberals should take pride in having brought the province so far in such a relatively short time." Mr. Speaker: That concludes members' statements. Oral Questions PROBLEM GAMBLING AND ROLE OF MINISTER OF STATE FOR MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION SERVICES J.

MacPhail: Yesterday the minister of addictions refused to answer questions about problem gamblers. She said it wasn't her issue. That's despite the fact that problem gambling is one of the most significant addic- tion issues facing British Columbia. But later the Solici- tor General was more generous toward his colleague. He said the minister of addictions would get involved in this issue as she got up to speed in her portfolio, and if she needed more resources to deal with it, he ex- pected her to come and ask for those resources. That was outside the chamber.

My question is to the mini ster of addictions: what is she doing to get up to speed on the issue of gambling addiction, and does she believe more resources are needed to cope with it as a result of the Premier's mas- sive expansion of gambling? Hon. R. Coleman: The program for problem gam- bling was established in 1997 . The budget is $4 million this year. That's double what it was in 2001. There is a 24-hour toll-free help line for people that have a diffi- culty. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Please. Hon. R. Coleman: There's a total of 31 professionals who are contracted with the program across B.C.

Pro- fessional clinical counsellors provide provincewide counselling service at no cost to the client. Counsellors meet with clients during evenings and weekends as required and will travel to meet the clients in their community. Prevention worker s work with health or- ganizations, schools, first nations, communities, seniors and youth groups, and the gaming industry to provide information on gambling and addiction and related issues. On top of that, the corporation itself invests money in self-exclusion programs for those wanting to stay out of casinos and bingo halls.

Problem gambling pro- gram resource materials are posted in all gambling venues as well as on any ticket printed by the corpora- tion. Referral to counselling service is offered by the problem gambling program. There's an awareness pro- gram and appropriate response training for all gaming workers to identify clients experiencing distress in a gaming facility. In addition to that, we tracked this. Over the last number of years there have been three trackings in three different things — the last one being in 2003 — and there has been no incr ease in gambling addiction in the province. J. MacPhail: Oh, that's good.

The fox in charge of the henhouse is saying there is no increase in gambling addiction. It was this gove rnment that put the respon- sibility for gambling addiction right in the portfolio of the minister who is responsible for the doubling of gambling. The minister of addictions makes an extra $25,000 a year to do her job, and British Columbians have a right to know what they're getting in return. The minister tried to wash her hands of gaming addiction, but she can't wash her hands of substance abuse and alcohol- ism.

Can the minister of addictions tell us if problem gamblers suffer from alcoholism more than the general public? Hon. B. Locke: I am responsible for over a billion dollars of mental health and addiction services deliv- ered through the Ministry of Health Services and the health authorities. Also, my role is to advocate for men- tal health across government to fulfil our commitment to making mental health a priority. Here are some of those highlights.

We have inte- grated mental health and addiction services across the province to improve care, we are implementing Can- ada's very first child and youth mental health plan, and we are spending $138 million to build new mental health facilities throughout our province. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further question. [1420] J. MacPhail: How dare the minister responsible for substance abuse give that answer. According to Stats Canada, problem gamblers are afflicted with alcohol dependence at a rate seven times greater than those without a gambling addiction prob- lem.

The minister of addictions is charged with reduc- ing alcoholism in British Columbia. There is a direct,

11560 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 irrefutable correlation between substance abuse, addic- tion to alcohol and gambling. So what is she doing to ensure that her government's massive expansion of gambling doesn't lead to more substance abuse and alcohol addiction? Hon. B. Locke: We recognized that the health care system needed to respond more effectively to the needs of people with addictions. That is why, for the very first time in B.C., we have brought addiction services directly into the regional he alth care delivery system.

That is why we funded $3.2 million for the first super- vised injection site in North America. That is why we are partnering with stakehol ders to provide education, and that is why we have integrated mental health and addiction services across this province. We have done more to strengthen addiction ser- vices than the NDP ever co uld have dreamed of doing in their ten years. FACILITY FOR FORMER ADDICTS AND MENTALLY ILL IN VANCOUVER J. Kwan: The minister of addictions did not answer the question from my colleague. Let me ask her an- other question.

To the minister: the government of British Colum- bia is funding a 35-unit complex in Vancouver for for- mer addicts and the mentally ill. This project was agreed to through the Vancouver agreement and has the full support of the city and the federal government. But the minister of multiculturalism is fighting the pro- ject in his community. What is the Minister for Mental Health and Addiction Services doing to ensure that this critical project for people with addictions is not halted by the actions of her colleague the minister of state for multiculturalism? Hon. B.

Locke: I am responsible for over a billion dollars of mental health and addiction services deliv- ered through the Ministry of Health Services and through the health authorities. Also, my role is to ad- vocate for mental health across government to fulfil our commitment to making mental health a priority. This project in Vancouver is a partnership between Vancouver coastal health, B. C. Housing, Triage Ser- vices and the city of Vancouver. When it's completed, it will provide the most up-to-date care for people with mental illness and addictions. The city of Vancouver is considering the approvals at this time.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplementary question. J. Kwan: Well, according to news reports and Van- couver city councillors, the minister of state for multi- culturalism is fanning the flames of fear about this pro- ject, actively organizing an effort to kill it. If the minis- ter of multiculturalism succeeds, the director of the Coast Mental Health Foundation says that the people of Vancouver will have lost an opportunity to stem the tide of homelessness and addiction.

Will the minister of mental health and addictions stand up for the people that she's supposed to repre- sent, that she's supposed to advocate for, and tell her colleague in this House to stop the fanning the flames of fear? Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Hon. B. Locke: You know, Mr. Speaker, if the member was so interested in mental health, why didn't she fund the mental health plan in the beginning? Why did she ignore depression and anxiety disor- ders… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. [1425] Hon. B.

Locke: …when they are the two most common mental illnesses? Why did she let the dedi- cated workers in the addictions field languish for ten years without any support or direction from her gov- ernment? Why did she fail to address the needs of chil- dren with mental illness? We've corrected her failures, and we will continue to give mental health and addic- tion services the priority th ey should have been given under the previous government. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. LEGAL AID FUNDING P.

Nettleton: The Attorney General has indicated through the media that he will push for a restoration of legal aid funding. Those are his words. This, of course, follows some 24 courthouse closures; the cuts to, I think, 53 of 60 legal services offices; and other cuts as- sociated with the administration of justice to services associated with legal aid. My question would be to the Attorney General. Is he now acknowledging his role in denying justice to thousands of British Columbians? Beyond that, is he prepared to provide this House today with details with respect to the restoration of funding for legal services?

Hon. G. Plant: I was glad to have the support of the member for the budget that we introduced in early 2002, which gave effect to th e beginning of a three-year plan to restore the province's fiscal health. In doing so, we have made some great changes in the justice sys-

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11561 tem. Over 99 percent of British Columbians live within an hour of a courthouse. I think that's accessible justice. We've changed the way courthouses operate to open up the use of things like facsimile filing. We're going to introduce electronic filing in the court system. We've transformed the idea of legal aid to include a r a n g e o f s e r v i c e s f r o m i n f o r m a t i o n t o a d v i c e t o r e p r e - sentation.

We've moved away from adversarial models of legal aid funding towards models that encourage accommodation and agreement in settlement and ne- gotiation, which I think builds stronger settlements. There's lots more work that we need to do, and I am going to continue to be an advocate for an accessible justice system because I know all members want our justice system to be as accessible and as good as it pos- sibly can be. ADDICTION SERVICES IN SURREY D. Hayer: My question is to the Minister for Mental Health and Addiction Servic es.

Drug addictions are a major concern for youth and their families, particularly in Surrey. Sadly, these problems can put youth at risk. The recent increase in use of crystal meth by youth at risk is extremely troubling. To the Minister of State for Mental Health and Ad- diction Services: what is she doing to ensure that youth in Surrey have a place to go and receive timely treat- ment for their addiction problems? Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. B. Locke: I would like to thank the member for his question and his caring about this issue.

He is quite correct that the youth addictions issue is a major concern for Surrey residents. I am pleased to inform the member that the Fraser health authority is partnering with the Surrey Memorial Hospital Foundation to develop a cen- tre of specialized addiction services for youth, for adults and for seniors. New funding has enabled this facility to increase detox beds capacity to 30, including 24 adult beds and six youth beds, further establishing B.C.'s lead in providing youth detox services.

It is also being proposed for this new facility to in- crease services through a daytox program and home withdrawal support services. We are looking forward to this groundbreaking new facility this winter. FACILITY FOR FORMER ADDICTS AND MENTALLY ILL IN VANCOUVER J. Kwan: I have a simple question for the minister of addictions. Has she told her colleague the minister of state for multiculturalism to stop advocating against the project? Hon. B. Locke: I wonder if the member for Vancouver– Mount Pleasant has spoken to her leader. I'll just read what it says here. A reporter asked…. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. [1430] Hon. B. Locke: Carole James was asked about the transition home for the mentally ill in East Vancouver, and Ms. James' comment was: "I haven't talked with the community about that yet." Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. members, if we can have some order, we will continue with question period. Will the Leader of the Opposition please come to order. The member for Nanaimo has the floor. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, hon. members. Government House Leader, please come to order.

The member for Nanaimo has the floor. AUTO THEFT AND BAIT CAR PROGRAM M. Hunter: Thanks to the economic policies of this government, my community in Nanaimo is seeing un- precedented, exciting growth , but as we grow, we are starting to see some of the less desirable aspects of ur- ban behaviour. In particular, auto thefts are becoming a problem in the mid-Island.

I'm pleased to say that the member for Nanaimo- Parksville and I have been working with the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia to try to address this issue, but I am being asked whether or not ICBC is prepared to introduce the bait car program into my region. Can the Solicitor Gene ral advise me whether or not that is going to happen, and if so, when? Hon. R. Coleman: This has actually been a very good program of ICBC in cooperation with law en- forcement.

We've seen, year over year — from April, May and June in 2003 to April, May and June in 2004 — a 13 percent decrease in auto theft on the lower mainland since we put the bait car program into place. That's good for everybody, because it helps keep rates down, helps lowers crime and helps law en- forcement do their job. We sh ould point out that that is in addition to whatever bu dgets the municipalities are paying for law enforcement, because this is being paid for separate from that.

We said all along that the bait car program would be first expanded to the lower mainland of British Co- lumbia and that we would then start to target other communities in the province. The impact group will be assessing that, looking at Nanaimo and other commu- nities in the near future, to decide whether we can put

11562 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 bait cars in those communities. If it makes sense, they will do it. [End of question period.] Orders of the Day Hon. G. Collins: I call second reading on Bill 66. Second Reading of Bills MOTOR VEHICLE AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 Hon. R. Coleman: I'm pleased to rise and speak with regard to Bill 66 in the Legislature this afternoon. I'd like to go back, first of all, and give a little bit of the history of this initiative for the House.

In June 2003 a discussion paper that was developed in consultation with communities was put on the Internet for commu- nities and individuals to comment on with regard to what they thought might be initiatives they could put in place to improve the stat s on impaired driving and reduce the incidence of impaired driving on our streets. [1435] Impaired driving takes a devastating toll on the families in British Columbia. In 2001, there were 118 people who died in alcohol-related road crashes, and last year, 101.

There has been considerable improve- ment over the last 25 years in those statistics on road crashes and injury accidents related to alcohol over a period of time. In 2000, so me 30 percent of passenger car fatalities included drivers whose blood alcohol con- tent exceeded the legal limit. This represents a dramatic improvement over the peak year of 1981, when 65 per- cent of fatalities involved drunk drivers. Unfortunately, these gains have levelled off over the last few years. The drin king and driving initiative was based on discussions leading to that approval.

We have fine-tuned this initiative and spent some time really thinking about what is best for and what could work best for communities when it comes to impaired driving. One of the challenges we face when we try and develop legislation and law like this is the fact that some people will always want us to go further, and other people will always think somebody went too far. There are groups that are so emotionally attached to the issue that they are neve r quite satisfied with the progress that is made. I recognize that.

I recognize the compelling pain that people feel when they 've lost a loved one to an impaired driver. I recognize and have personally seen the damage done by an impaired driver on a family, on people in my community and even in the times when I was a law enforcement officer.

I also recognized as a minister, when I reviewed the entire impaired driving package, that we had to do something to try to raise the level of understanding within the community — educate that anybody that has a drink should never get behind the wheel of a car — but also to recognize that we had to have some pen- alties in place that would refocus the minds of people when it came to making this decision. There are two aspects of impaired driving. There are the Criminal Code provisions that are federal, which the federal government deals with in regard to their laws. Those provisions are in place.

Those legal limits are established, and they are in place today in Canada, along with the penalties. We as a province, however, have some abilitie s on administrative penal- ties and suspensions and ot her areas where we think we can improve the entire aspect of how impaired driving is dealt with in our province. As we started this process, a couple of things con- cerned me. About 7,000 people in British Columbia were charged on an annual basis with impaired driv- ing.

When I compared that statistic to the year before of the number of people that had actually received 24- hour suspensions — 44,000 of the 24-hour suspensions were issued and 7,000 charges — I had a concern. The first concern I had with the Attorney General is: how much time is it taking to process a criminal charge of impaired driving through the charge approval process? Is it making it so that the police are doing a 24-hour sus- pension rather than moving down to the aspect of the criminal charge?

If it isn't th at, then what can we do to enhance the value of the 24-hour prohibition for drivers to recognize that we don't want them driving with any alcohol on their breath in the province? A year ago, through regu lation and change, I al- lowed the superintendent of motor vehicles to actually suspend a driver's licence for people that had two or more 24-hour suspensions in a two-year period. We did that because we thought, administratively, that it might start focusing the mind a little bit for some peo- ple.

In addition to that, we felt it was important to move forward and say: how else can we improve the 2 4 - h o u r p r o h i b i t i o n , a n d w h a t e l s e d o w e n e e d t o d o with regard to impaired driving? [1440] Over this extensive consultation period, with a document that was on the Internet for people to re- spond to…. We received a great deal of response to this p a r t i c u l a r p a p e r . W e c a m e u p w i t h B . C . ' s d r i n k i n g - driving initiative.

There are a number of pieces to this: user-pay rehabilitation, user-pay ignition interlock, enhanced 24-hour prohibition, enhanced driving while prohibited penalties, coordinated cooperative public education and awareness, and an improved justice system response. The objective of all of this is to reduce the incidence of people getting behind the wheel of a car after con- suming alcohol. The objective, in so doing, is to reduce the number of fatalities and injury-accidents caused by impaired drivers in British Columbia.

The objective is to reduce the $880 million that this costs our society on an annual basis, in vehicle accidents alone, in injuries and deaths. The objective is to make people aware that we're dead serious about impaired driving in this province. But the most significant thing is to make sure that our communities are safer, that our communities are better

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11563 policed from the standpoint of impaired driving and that we give police the tools to do the job. This is what we're doing in this legislation. A 24-hour prohibition now…. When somebody is stopped by the roadside and given a roadside test, or if a police officer decides to give a 24-hour suspension, the police officer will now be able to also seize the car for 24 hours. That'll send the message to the driver who has consumed alcohol and to anybody associated with that vehicle that we're dead serious that we want that car and driver off the road.

If a person that gets a 24-hour suspension gets an- other one within a period of time, the superintendent of motor vehicles will suspend their driver's licence, taking into account their driving record. If they get three within a certain period of time, they will find themselves also having to go in for some mandatory rehabilitation, and they will see their driver's licence removed.

The other aspect is this: when we make that move, we also have to take into account that there are a num- ber of people in our province who get their licences suspended or prohibited an d who think they can just get behind the car's wheel, ignore the law and drive anyway. When you enhance enforcement with regard to the 24-hour suspension, you also need to enhance the ability to enforce with regard to prohibited and suspended driving. As we went through this exercise, we found a cou- ple of things that were of interest to us.

The first one is that we found that bail conditions, as set by the courts, where a judge actually says to someone that one of their bail conditions is that they can't drive…. We had no vehicle in legislation that allowed the superinten- dent to take the driver's licen ce. We will, in this legisla- tion, be able to take it as a part of the bail condition. More important is this: if somebody decides, when their licence is suspended or prohibited, to get behind the wheel of a car….

Understand this on your first of- fence: it's a minimum of a $500 fine when this legisla- tion comes into force, and we can take your car for up to 60 days. We don't believe that people who are serving a sen- tence that has to do with the prohibition of a driver's licence should be getting behind the wheel of a car dur- ing that period, and we believe that penalties have to be there to actually deter th at level of behaviour. This legislation includes that in it as an enhancement to the 24-hour suspension, to our ability to prohibit driving and the issues in and around that.

We also have in this legislation a user-pay rehabili- tation program. People that are repeat offenders under the Criminal Code, people that are first-time offenders under the Criminal Code and people that have habitual difficulties with 24-hour suspensions will find them- selves taking mandatory treatment for alcohol. That treatment can vary, but every single person will be basically assessed and given a plan of treatment that they'll have to go into, and all will pay. In addition to that, we are going to put in place a user-pay ignition interlock system on the cars of repeat offenders in British Columbia.

Some of you may have seen the news last night. Basically, what we're talking about is a device that is attached to the ignition of a car. You have to blow in it before you can actually turn your vehicle on. If you have alcohol on your breath, you won't be able to start your car. This is for people that have, obviously, a problem we need to address.

It also provides a monthly print- out, so it tells us if anybody has tampered with the device, if anybody has tried to disconnect it or if any incidences occurred where so meone actually tried to start the vehicle on the inte rlock device when they had alcohol on their breath. [1445] These are good initiatives. As we move through the entire aspect of discussions in committee stage of this debate, we're going to find that we've done some groundbreaking things with regard to impaired driv- ing in B.C. We're also funding this program.

Although we have a user-pay program within this, the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General will receive an ad- dition to the vote to be able to take care of the shortfall of cash in the transition into full user-pay with rehabili- tation, interlock and other aspects of this program. Let's take a look at what we've done with regard to impaired driving in British Columbia in the last two years.

In the summer of last year, we made it possible for the superintendent of motor vehicles to seize a ve- hicle for 24-hour suspensions that were repetitive, tak- ing into account the driving record of the individual. In the fall of 2003, we did an enhancement to the graduated licensing program in the province, making it so that a learner will now take a year to get a learner's licence and two years under novice.

We put in place the restrictions on passengers to take away the peer pressure that our young peop le are experiencing in the vehicles, knowing full well that that one change of go- ing to one passenger under novice will save us 15,000 accidents and numerous injuries every year. Through that three-year period, of course, there is zero tolerance for the driver of a vehicle to have alcohol on their breath. Zero tolerance means that anybody in any of those stages of driving would find themselves going back to the start of day one of their driver's li- cence should they have alcohol on their breath.

In addition to those two initiatives, we brought through what we're doing today. We worked it through a process, taking into account the issues around the Charter, issues around what we could and couldn't do and what we felt could be accomplished on behalf of all British Columbians with regard to im- paired driving. It is a big step to go out there today and say to peo- ple: "If you're going to drive and get a 24-hour suspen- sion, you could lose your licence." I want people to understand that.

That's why we will get the education out there, as we move fo rward with ICBC and our other cooperating agencies and partners, in addition to all the changes we make to let people know the scourge that alcohol is on our society with regard to deaths and injuries on our highways and roads.

11564 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 More importantly, you'd better be aware of the fact that the rules have changed, folks. We do not have the patience for you to go out and drive when you're pro- hibited. We do not have the patience to accept that you think you can continue to drive and get 24-hour sus- pensions without a result on your driver's licence. All of these changes allow us to move down a road to where we can actually make our roads safer in British Columbia. While we do that, Mr. Speaker, we're doing some other things.

As you know, in this House I've discussed and talked about the fact that we want an integrated traffic unit up and running in B.C. We had $13.5 mil- lion going out in overtime from ICBC to police forces to pay for CounterAttack, rather than actually putting police officers on our streets. I was talking to somebody the other day, and they said: "Man, I've really noticed that there's an increase in road stops for impaired driving, for IMPACT and those types of things lately." That 's because we're starting to ramp up the integrated tra ffic units, and they're start- ing to have an effect.

Not only will the visibility of po- licing be increased, but when they have it out there with the visibility of policing, they will have additional tools like those I've describ ed and what was included in this legislation. The whole aspect of this is education, visible en- forcement and results that mean something to commu- nities, on the penalties people will have when they want to break the law. If you can combine all those and make it work on behalf of communities, you've got to have success in reducing accidents and fatalities related to impaired driving.

That's what we're trying to do here. [1450] There will be naysayers. I noticed that the Leader of the Opposition yesterday said we didn't go far enough. That strikes me as ironic, gi ven the fact that they did nothing in ten years. It's about sitting down with law enforcement in an integrated relationship in regards to enforcement, about having a policing plan that worked for British Columbia, about having integrated units re- lated to traffic — or actually having the guts to address the issues in and around impaired driving in our society.

This was a very extensive process on behalf of members of the government caucus, on behalf of the pub- lic, of British Columbians. I want to say that I'm proud of the fact that not only did we initiate the process, not only did we have the temerity to put out there options that were controversial and not only were we prepared to have those discussions, but we were prepared to work towards the solutions and find , at the end of the day, the additional tools for communities and police to re- duce the scourge of impaired driving. That's what we've done here.

We've had the ability to sit down and look at ou r communities, listen to the people of British Columbia, listen to the interest groups, including law enforcement, and to come up with some things they tell us are going to work. There's another little thing in this legislation. It is a little thing, but it's also impo rtant. As we deal with the issues in and around alcohol and driving, we also rec- ognize where the activity takes place and when the activity takes place. Our police, in the past, have had the ability to write a ticket for someone who is drinking in a bar, pub or restaurant and is under-age.

They've had the ability to write a ticket to a person working in a bar who serves people that are intoxicated. They've actually had the right to write a ticket for somebody who's intoxicated in that public place. The problem is that those tickets have added up to about $4.7 million owed to government today. About $600,000 in liquor tickets are written in the province every year, and 80 percent of those tickets aren't col- lected. They became a useless tool from the standpoint of actually having a result at the end that meant some- thing with regards to the ticket you got when you made the offence.

Now, 94 percent of the tickets for traffic offences in British Columbia get collected. If you're speeding, if you run a stop sign, if you run a red light, if you fail to yield, if you pass on a double solid line, you'll get a ticket. There's a fine, and 94 percent of those tickets get collected. What's the difference? The traffic ticket is tied to your driver's licence. When you go to renew your insurance or you go to get your driver's licence, if you don't pay your fines, you don't get the licence.

This legislation, for the first time, takes another provincial offence — that being liquor tickets — and ties it to the driver's licence in British Columbia. It makes the tool meaningful to police in B.C. as an en- forcement tool they can now use and know the end result is that the penalty will stand and that people will have to start to recognize those behaviours will no longer be something that are going to be brushed aside or ignored. Law enforcement asked for this tool two years ago. As we've done our work th rough the drinking-driving initiative, we felt it was important to give it to them.

They tell me that in the city of Vancouver, if they had this tool, they could reduce a lot of the difficulties they're experiencing in their bar scene downtown. We're giving them the tool.

As we give them that tool, I hope it'll also, frankly, focus people's minds on the fact that — you know what? — there are penalties for bad behaviour, whether it be drinking and driving, drinking in a pub- lic place and getting so intoxicated that you can't han- dle it anymore, serving somebody who's intoxicated or thinking you can get into a bar when you're under-age and have no penalty whatsoever for your action. [1455] Whether you have a 24-hour suspension, whether you have a criminal record now for impaired driving or whatever the case may be, there will be penalties and results and things we want to accomplish as a re- sult.

People have to take responsibility for their actions in and around alcohol. Our expectation is that they will, but our expecta- tion is also that we will give the police and communi- ties the tool to make sure they understand where our

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11565 expectation is for them to have that behaviour modifi- cation, and our expectation is that we will have success in reducing impaired driving in British Columbia. As I have walked through this exercise for the last two years and met with families and people that have been affected by alcohol-related incidents in their lives, I have known we're on the right course to achieve something.

I knew it even more so yesterday after I introduced the legislation and returned two phone calls last night — two phone calls to people that I know lost somebody to an impaired driver. Those were two phone calls from people who said: "Thank you. You have done the right thing.

We know we can't go all the way sometimes with these things, but at least you have done the job to get people off the road so that I will not see another family, or as many other families, affected by the scourge of alcohol and an impaired driver." When the families see that you have actually de- cided it is time to put the penalties, the rehabilitation, the community education, the driving-while- prohibited penalties and th e issuing and changing so that people can't avoid the law under bail conditions — which has been one of their bailiwicks for a long, long time — they know you listened.

They know you listened, and they think you have made a big step. They will also tell you that they would love to see that there would be nobody who would ever get behind the wheel of a car again. Some would tell you they would like to see all people that are im- paired drivers incarcerated. They also know the reality that you need the tools in your law enforcement com- munity with significant-enough penalties to change behaviour. I had a lengthy conversation with one of the indi- viduals last night. He got quite emotional at one point and said to me: "You know, Rich, this is the right direc- tion.

After explaining the legislation and what we're doing, I now understand what you are doing. I under- stand that you've got it in your mind and figured out that you are not going to accept people thinking they have an excuse by getting a 24-hour suspension or have an excuse by ignoring the law and driving while prohibited. You are going to actually change behav- iour, because you're going to penalize them on the one side and take the car away on the other.

You're going to have some impact." The individual was also very supportive of ignition interlock and is of the mind that all manufacturers should start putting them in their cars, like Saab is evi- dently doing in Sweden. That may come down the road. The one thing we have accomplished here is a piece of legislation that has come together through a group of people working together: law enforcement, community, people that are special interest groups with regards to impaired driving. Mr. Speaker, I am proud of this legislation.

I'm proud of it because we actu ally had the guts, frankly, to break the mould a little bit. We had the guts to say that we're not putting up with some of this stuff any- more and that we're going to give tools to our commu- nities and law enforcement to push back. We give them those tools, and we're going to tie it into an educational program to get the message out to everybody. This is a good piece of legislation. This is something that is good for communities. It is something that is going to change lives for those it saves and for those that don't get maimed by an impaired driver.

We will be continuing, as we move through this process, to be ever-vigilant to see if there are any other tools we can find that would assist us in reducing impaired driving in the province. This legislation should be supported by all mem- bers of this House. This legislation does go far enough, considering the realities of what we're allowed to work within, within the law. This legislation gives us an op- portunity to change behaviour and to measure that change as we go forward and see how the statistics related to impaired driving improve in British Colum- bia.

If they improve and if we are successful, it is a proud day for everyone in this House. [1500] Hon. G. Plant: I am delighted to be able to rise and follow my friend and colleague the Solicitor General, and to express my support for the initiative that is be- fore us here this afternoon and on which I have worked with the Solicitor General for the last couple of years and more. [J. Weisbeck in the chair.] I don't want to spend time talking about the range of issues that are dealt with in the legislation. I only wanted to spend a minute to speak about one particu- lar issue.

As long ago as about 1997, I think, I stood in the House as an opposition member of the Legislature, an opposition justice critic, and introduced a private member's bill that was called something like the sub- stance abuse assessment and rehabilitation act.

The gist of that legislation was to try to introduce into the law of British Columbia for the first time some recognition that there are people who get behind the wheel and drive while they are drunk because they are irresponsible and also people who get behind the wheel of a car and drive wh ile they are drunk because they are suffering from a drug addiction or alcohol addiction — and that if we could introduce into the regulation of motor vehicles and licensing in British Columbia some recognition of that reality and actually give the superintendent of motor vehicles or the ap- propriate official the tools to require the repeat of- fender who has this problem to be assessed for it and then to take counselling or therapy for it, we would fix the health problem that lies at the root of the criminal behaviour.

That's not for a minute to diminish the fact that driving while impaired is a crime. It should be re- garded as a crime and dealt with seriously. But we can, in this House, ensure that the laws of British Columbia also have the tools to strike at the heart of the causes of criminal behaviour. In this case, one of those causes is

11566 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 the fact that there are people who are alcoholics or who are drug addicts and who just can't help themselves because of their addiction. They get behind the wheel, and they cause all of the havoc and the anguish and the loss that the Solicitor General has referred to in his sec- ond reading remarks. It was a bit of a mystery to me. I stood up and I tabled the bill, and my sense of the Legislature that day was that all sides — all parties — supported the initia- tive. But it has never come to be until now.

A year or so after that initiative, or some time shortly thereafter, the NDP did introduce a provision into their traffic legisla- tion that went some distance down the road that I was arguing in favour of. But having introduced that provi- sion and having passed it, I don't think they ever brought it into force. That's unfortunate.

When the Solicitor General and I, a couple of years ago, sat down and realized that it was time to take some forward progressive steps in the area of impaired driving, we both put this i ssue on the table at the out- set, this issue of what we can do to ensure that in the appropriate case — and the appropriate case is most typically going to be the case of the repeat impaired driving offender who just has this problem — legisla- tors have given regulators the tools to ensure that the driver doesn't get behind the wheel without addressing the problem which lies at the root of the criminal be- haviour.

So we have in this bill the requirement — the op- tion — for substance abuse assessment, rehabilitation and treatment. Really, at long last, I think we are finally going to see out there on the streets of British Columbia an idea which we should have had in our law and in our administration of this law years and years ago.

It may be late, but it's a good time and as good a time as any to finally get it done and get it done right. [1505] As the Solicitor General was speaking, I noted he made the point, which I think is important to empha- size, that both the rehabilitation initiative and the igni- tion-interlock initiative are user-pay. I think that's an appropriate allocation of responsibility in terms of these issues. The person who wants the right to be back on the road someday should have the responsibility of paying for the treatment that may help make that a reality. So it's been a long time waiting, for me anyway.

But I'm absolutely delighted to be part of a government which, these years down the line, is finally moving forward to implement something that I was privileged enough to introduce to this Legislature back when I was first elected as an MLA. For that and for all of the reasons that the Solicitor General talked about in his remarks and all of the other in itiatives that are in this bill, I am delighted to have a chance to stand and speak in support of this bill. K. Krueger: I'd like to join the Attorney General and the Solicitor General in supporting Bill 66.

I also am proud of a government that is moving forward on these important initiatives. I've worked over 20 years in the investigation of motor vehicle crashes. I pretty much have stopped call- ing them accidents, because most of them aren't. They're the result of neglig ence. They're the result of poor decisions, irresponsible decisions and careless- n e s s . V e r y f e w o f t h e m a r e actual accidents, but they wreak terrible havoc in people's lives, and the conse- quences are an awful thing to see.

One of my tasks as an accident investigator was often to try and determine the truth about who was sitting where in the vehicle and who was driving. Very often crashes that result in quadriplegia, paraplegia, brain damage or the death of occupants involve a number of factors. Irresponsible behaviour like exces- sive speeding, very often along with failure to use seatbelts and the protective equipment of the vehicle, and almost inevitably driv ing while impaired are fac- t o r s i n m a n y o f t h e s e v e r y s e v e r e i n j u r y - c a u s i n g crashes.

Working for ICBC and havi ng to go and look at these vehicles, often after having spoken to a bereaved family, grieving parents or mangled young people in hospital, I was often horrified by what I saw. You would look at the smashed windshield, and there would be pieces of human scalp embedded in the bro- ken glass with hair hanging down. There would be fragments of people in some of these vehicles. I saw a beautiful young woman whose face was so scarred up and had required so many stit ches that it looked like a jigsaw puzzle. I doubt that she ever looked beautiful again.

I met a young woman who was sitting in the front seat of a pickup truck between two good old boys who had been boozing it up. They hit an immovable object. She was thrown forward so hard that all the bones in her foot broke, and they pr otruded through the skin. I saw terrible things — things that made me sick to my stomach. Very often these were the factors that led to those crashes. A crash that occurs because the driver was impaired is absolutely not an accident. Many of these things happen because people re- gard driving as a right and something that they're just entitled to do. Of course th ey aren't.

Driving is a privi- lege. Our highways and our law enforcement system are paid for by the taxpayer , and the taxpayer deserves the right to enjoy those highways in safety and without having to be fearful of en countering a drunk in the middle of the night. When my children head home to Salmon Arm — some have moved to Salmon Arm; I still live in Kamloops — I am fearful if they do it at night on the Trans-Canada Highway because of the high incidence of impaired drivers on that road. For many years at ICBC, we experienced the frus- tration of people thumbing their noses at the law.

They would lose their driver's licence; they would keep right on driving. Eventually we got the ability to remove their ability to insure a vehicle again if they were be- having in that way. They started insuring the vehicle in their mother's name, their girlfriend's name or some buddy's name. I've been very thankful, as these changes come on over the years, that government can

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11567 and does seize the vehicles, impound them and make life difficult for that sort of irresponsible person. [1510] I applaud the Solicitor General for beefing up Brit- ish Columbia's ability to respond to such people sig- nificantly with this legislation. I've seen some of the criticism — people who think the bill doesn't go far enough. We work with realities, of course, in this Leg- islature — the reality of people's rights, their Charter rights as Canadians under the constitution.

We can't just lock people up and throw away the key because they've committed an offence of driving while im- paired, but we can be intelligent about how we re- spond. This is intelligent legislation that I believe will go a long way toward decreasing the number of crashes related to drivin g while impaired and the number of terrible incident s such as those that I've been describing — the grief in families, the heartache for the victims themselves. Often people are victims of themselves. I have a young constituent whose family I have been working with for months now.

Alth ough he was a brilliant young man — very motivated, very hard-working — he made a terrible mistake and got behind the wheel of a car when he shouldn' t have, when he had been drinking. He is such a bright young guy. He'd gradu- ated when he just turned 17. He was only 19 years old when he had this car cras h, and he already had two full years of carpenter's apprenticeship under his belt. He was heading for a very good career — a responsi- ble young man — until that night. He crashed into a neighbour's basement with his vehicle. When they extracted him from the vehicle, he was a quadriplegic.

His whole life has been changed, and his family's life as well. ICBC reached the point in the seventies, while I was working for them, when they began to face up to the fact that there are some drivers amongst us who will never change their attitudes about some issues — like wearing seatbelts, drinking and driving, irresponsible driving behaviour — and decided to respond in a two- pronged counterattack.

One of the prongs was to in- crease the tools that the government and the insurance corporation have to deal with people who behave in these ways through things such as this legislation sets out — increased prohibitions, seizing of vehicles, 24- hour suspensions — and all sorts of things designed to deal with people who are perpetrators of this offensive behaviour. The other prong was education, particularly of young people starting at the elementary school level, recognizing that children will accept messages like the messages of traffic safety.

Th ey'll take them to heart, and they'll grow up rememb ering those and actually being committed to them. I had some dramatic illustrations of that in my own family. I consider myself a good driver and try to be a responsible driver. My children were picking up on these messages. If they sensed that I was going to ac- celerate to get through an amber light, they'd shout, "Fools rush in, Dad," because that was one of the slo- gans being taught to them in elementary school.

One day when I was going to drop my children off at my mother's place five doors down the road from where we lived, my oldest one, who was six at the time, shouted: "Dad, you haven't done up our seat- belts." They all had infant car restraints. I said: "Well, that's okay. We're just going five doors down to grandma's house." There was a shocked silence in the vehicle, and then his little voice: "Dad, does God say it's okay to break the law if you're just going five doors d o w n t o g r a n d m a ' s h o u s e ? " T h e y t o o k i t v e r y s e r i - ously, and they still take it very seriously.

They all wear their seatbelts as a matter of course. They had the traffic messages drummed into them at school early on. I C B C a c t u a l l y p a i d t e a c h e r s t o c o m e a n d w o r k f o r the traffic safety division and write curriculum and go and teach other teachers how to include it in the educa- tion of these youngsters. It was a very good thing. Sadly, in 1992 a new vice-president at ICBC discontin- ued that program. We've ha d a lot of drivers turn 16 and begin driving, who haven't had the traffic safety message as a result and who don't have those things built in.

I've been talking with the Solicitor General and encouraging him to encourage ICBC to resume those elementary school programs. I have a colleague, Mavis Johnson, who worked with me in traffic safety at ICBC. She travels the world incorp orating other countries' successes in traffic safety programs and bringing them home for organizations here in British Columbia. Again, she has met with the Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services.

I hope that the communities of this province , as they receive the fund- ing from traffic violation fines, will use a lot of that in traffic safety programs in their communities and will use the expertise of people like Mavis Johnson as they do so. [1515] In Prince George in the late seventies, people horri- fied by the dozens of young people who were being killed and maimed in crashes — often involving those same factors of driving wh ile impaired, speeding, fail- ure to use protective equipment, seatbelts — formed a group that they called the carnage committee.

Their slogan was: "We're going to take the car out of car- nage." They went after that very seriously with bill- boards about the carnage, wi th car wrecks that they would put alongside the highways to slow people down and illustrate the consequences of those behav- iours. That worked very well. The number of fatalities, the number of serious inju ries and the number of crashes involving driving while impaired were re- duced dramatically. It's something we should all focus on in our com- munities and certainly in government. I'm proud of the Solicitor General, who has gone so far out of his way to do that.

I think this is a ke y piece of legislation that I trust everyone in this House is going to support. I like a whole lot of things about this legislation. I like the way it focuses on changing the attitudes of drivers. It will require drivers to undertake training where, reluctantly or otherwise, they're obliged to open

11568 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 their eyes to the risks they're taking themselves and the risks they're making other people subject to if they make that terrible decision to get behind the wheel when they're impaired. The focus on 24-hour suspensions, again, will oblige people to think very seriously about the second or third drink in a restau rant, about how they're get- ting home, about planning a safe ride home. Lots of times people never intended to get themselves in a situation where they were driving a vehicle while im- paired.

They just don't think about it in advance, and people have to be trained to think about it in advance. They have to be trained to realize that driving is a privilege, that it's not something they're entitled to and that it's a privilege that will be taken away if they mis- behave in these ways. I like the increased ability to impound vehicles and the extension of the length of time that a vehicle can be impounded for from 30 to 60 days.

It's a good thing to get that weapon out of people's hands if they're falling into the habit of driving while impaired, because a ve- hicle does become a weapon in those circumstances. People often have no realization of the deadly force that the momentum any vehicle has when it's being operated at pretty much any speed, but certainly at significant highway speeds. I'm tremendously pleased with the government for bringing forward this legislation. I certainly support it, and I hope that everyone in the Legislature will. I com- mend the Solicitor General for having introduced it. J.

Bray: I join with my colleagues in rising in sup- port of this bill. Certainly, I know that in my commu- nity, issues around drinking and driving are always at the forefront when we talk about concerns we have for the safety of our families, for our children and indeed for ourselves. I want to spend a few minutes talking about one of the key reasons why I believe this is such a strong piece of legislation and such a good piece of public policy. There are lots of issues th at revolve around drinking and driving, and there are lots of groups out there that have opinions and express concerns all around that issue.

It's not easy to venture forth with a comprehen- sive plan with consultation — to actually ask for feed- back from those groups specifically as well as from the population at large. Yet the Solicitor General did that, and what we've come up with is the result of meaning- ful, real consultation. One of the groups that the Solicitor General spent a lot of time talking to was, in fact, our front-line police officers — the women and men who actually have to enforce the rules and are trying to work to make our roads safer.

Some of the criticism I've heard from pun- dits and others that I find really shocking is the sugges- tion that this legislation gives police officers too much control, too much discretion, too much power. [1520] At the same time, many of those pundits complain about the fact that we don't seem to be doing a lot about drinking and driving. Yet they argue that giving front-line police officers some tools to actually deal with it at the roadside, based on their own professional experience, is somehow problematic. I find that quite dismaying.

We have the best law enforcement forces in the world here in British Columbia. Of course there are incidents that make it into the media, but day in, day out, day shift, night shift, long weekends, Christmas, Thanksgiving, our police office rs are out on the streets doing their best to make sure that our streets are safe. We take it for granted.

When the police officers meet with our Solicitor General and say, "Solicitor General, here are some tools that can make our job more effective, that get people — especially problem drinkers — actually off the road and make it physically impossible for them to get back in their cars to drive again, that keep us on the street catching other offenders and that drive home the mes- sage that drinking and driving will not be tolerated in British Columbia," I think that's something to celebrate.

I know that when the op position was in power, with the exception of a few dozen criminal investiga- tions, they never bothered to talk to the police in this province. They completely ignored professional law enforcement. We've actually engaged them. The Solici- tor General actually made it a point when he was first appointed in 2001 to engage professional law enforce- ment. Guess what. They've got some really good ideas. Greater powers are not what we're talking about here. It's actually giving them the tools to enhance the ser- vice they already provide.

If that gets one drinking driver off the road who otherwise might have plowed into a family or killed themselves or injured someone else or themselves, I don't see how anyone could have a criticism about that. What we're also doing with this legislation is send- ing a clear signal to those who do engage in drinking and driving that this is a serious offence in British Co- lumbia. Some of these changes, to me, are actually good, solid, commonsense changes.

If you get a 24- hour roadside suspension, you can't say, "Thanks, Offi- cer Smith," walk away and come back an hour later, when the officer's moved to another location, get back in your car and drive agai n, because we can impound that car, actually get it off the road for 24 hours and make it a real suspension. The

part I am particularly pleased about is the rec- ognition…. Again, by combining mental health ser- vices, addiction services and health services together, we recognize that alcoholism is a health issue. There are criminal aspects to it, no question, and drinking and driving is a criminal act, period. But the underly- ing cause of that may, in fact, be the disease of alcohol- ism. At the end of the day, the goal is to make our roads safer.

I think one of the great programs is, in fact, di- recting repeat offenders to treatment in order to get their driver's licence back and to make sure they're getting the treatment they need . It's actually a user-pay system. I think that is one of the big deterrents. It's go- ing to cost you to get your licence back as a repeat user.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11569 Now, you might not receive the same treatment, based on an assessment that you'll receive. You may only get an educational program, or you might get intensive alcohol treatment. The cost is spread out among all so that it doesn't become overly cost- prohibitive for those that might need more intensive treatment, because those are the people we want to make sure actually receive treatment for their alcohol- ism. We're also saying, and th is was always the one….

I know I talked to constitu ents who often shook their head at this, that somebody would receive a driver's licence suspension and would constantly get pulled over driving again. People felt frustrated by the lack of the ability to deal with that , and no more so, I think, than front-line police officers who got tired of seeing the same person driving. The ability to impound the vehicle and actually put some pressure on that indi- vidual to get the car back or to make sure that they're upfront with family members and that family members are upfront with them….

They don't want to lose their vehicle because someone who has a driver's licence suspension gets in the ca r and drives anyway. We're really saying that that's a serious offence as well. [1525] We've got an appeal provision there to make sure that in cases of, say, a co mmercial operator, where the employee doesn't tell them they're under suspension, they have the opportunity to get their vehicle back within a day or two, or in situations of potential hard- ship for a family who says: "We didn't know so-and-so was going to drive, and we have to get our children to day care." There are appeal provisions.

We're saying in this province that it's a crime to drink and drive. You're going to pay severe penalties, and it's going to start right on the roadside. If you con- tinue to do things like driving without a driver's li- cence, it's going to cost you. Another issue I am really pleased with is recogniz- ing not only that treatment is important but that we actually want to make sure you can re-establish that you can now drive without consuming alcohol. The interlock system to me is a great innovation. It's done in other jurisdictions — very successful.

I think it's bril- liant that we've brought this here to British Columbia so that repeat users actual ly, once they finish treat- ment, are going to have an interlock installed in their car, and they are going to be required to blow to start the vehicle but also periodically to ensure they're not drinking once they're driving. Again, there's a financial implication to that. The actual person is going to be paying the cost of the in- stallation and the removal of the unit, as well as the calibration. It needs to be calibrated on a regular basis.

We are putting real physical impediments to the penal- ties, but we're also putting some financial impediments — real financial impediments — that hopefully will make people think twice about whether or not they'll have a couple and get in the car and take a chance. It's that type of behaviour that we need to curb, and it's those with alcohol problems that we need to actually get to and get them so that they're not drinking and driving. Preferably, it's because they're not drinking.

It's important that we su pport our front-line police officers as they go about their daily business of trying to keep our streets safe. Wh en they come to govern- ment and say, "We have some suggestions that allow us to achieve the goals everybody wants," then I think we need to rally behind our law enforcement officers. We need to reduce the incidence of drinking and driving. We need to reduce the incidence of accidents and of death. I think that this legislation is an excellent step in that direction. I commend the Solicitor General for tackling this issue, for consulting widely with the public.

I am very pleased to support this bill. J. MacPhail: I will begin my comments by saying that the New Democrat opposition will be voting in favour of this legislation. So, anybody who likes to allege otherwise: stop. I do want, though, to put on the record some of the discussion about what more needs to be done. I think it's fair to turn to the organization Mothers Against Drunk Driving — to put on record what their views and what their proposals are.

Of course, over the last two years they have sometimes been forced into commenting on activities or events in this province in a way that they would have preferred not to, and yet they have been drawn into the discussion by the government and by o t h e r s . S o I t h i n k i t ' s f a i r t h a t t h e y b e h i g h l i g h t e d a s a model organization of a group who tackles as their only agenda getting rid of drunk drivers. My colleague from Vancouver–Mount Pleasant and I met with the senior officials of Mothers Against Drunk Driving within the last few months. I'm pretty sure it was the summer.

I don't think it was much be- fore that, but my memory is…. In fact, it was this summer. Interjection. J. MacPhail: Yes, my memory is slipping. Yes, I confess. Never deny the obvious, is what I say. A les- son for all of us. Anyway, Mothers Against Drunk Driving has some interesting comments on this legislation. But first let m e j u s t r e a d w h a t m y v i e w i s o f w h a t t h e l e g i s l a t i o n does. I had a nice little analysis here that Bill 66, the legislation we're debating…. This is what the bill pro- vides.

Drivers who receive 24-hour roadside suspen- sions may also have their vehicles impounded for 24 hours — they may. Chronic offenders with serious drinking problems may face mandatory rehabilitation. [1530] Drivers with three or more alcohol-related Criminal Code offences may be forc ed to use an ignition- interlock device that requires a driver to submit an alcohol-free breath sample before the vehicle will start. Costs associated with the unit are to be paid for by the driver. The Solicitor General has estimated that about 230 drivers are expected to enter the user-pay program each year.

11570 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 People who get caught driving while prohibited from driving will face increased fines. The fine is in- creased from $300 to $500, and there's an option of an extended vehicle impoundment, up from 30 days to 60 days for a first offence. A driver's licence may not be renewed or obtained without outstanding fines for liquor offences such as underage possession of liquor being paid.

If a driver disputes the 24-hour prohibition, police can use the roadside screening device as an approved breath test, rather than having to conduct the test at a police sta- tion. Well, I think it won't come as any thunderbolt from anyone that British Columbia has been the focus of intense scrutiny around drunk driving. Many lives have been affected by that in the course of the last two years. Lives have been unalterably affected by the scru- tiny of the last two years, and I wish nothing but the best for those who have had to face that intense scru- tiny.

It's also important that we learn lessons when peo- ple look upon us in a way that is less than favourable on the basis of our action s. Mothers Against Drunk Driving has done exactly that, to see what lessons have been learned by this government, by the leader of this government, by the province as a whole. Now, what has MADD, the Mothers Against Drunk Driving organization, said about British Columbia's record on tackling drunk driving over the course of the last years?

Well, in the year 2000, Mothers Against Drunk Driving gave British Columbia the second- highest rating in all of Canada for the provincial efforts to stop drunk driving. In 2002 that rating slipped to a much lower rate. By 2003, Mothers Against Drunk Driving gave British Columbia a D-plus rating for pro- gress in tackling drunk driving. This year, in June, British Columbia got the lowest rating available by Mothers Against Drunk Driving for the province's efforts to ta ckle drunk driving.

The rat- ing was called "needs improv ement." The other ratings are "setting a good exampl e," "promising" or "needs improvement," and British Columbia got the lowest rating. There are other provinces that got the lowest rating too, but I know this government likes to be ei- ther the lowest or the highest. Well, in this case they're the lowest in the rating. Here's the opportunity for this government, the Liberal government, to change that.

I'm sad to say that the countrywide experts, Mothers Against Drunk Driv- ing, have described the chan ges listed in Bill 66 as nei- ther innovative nor unique and falling short of laws in provinces such as Manitoba and Ontario. "It's very dis- appointing," said Andrew Murie, chief executive officer of MADD. "There's nothing progressively new in this. There's no leadership. All they've done is replicate what other provinces have done. If they wanted to be mediocre, they've achieved that." Bob Rorison, interim president of the greater Van- couver

chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said the new law is not strong enough. "We're disap- pointed," he said. "We expected a lot more from Mr. Coleman. All we're doing is playing catch-up with other provinces." [1535] What are we doing in the way of catch-up?

Re- member, this government had the second-highest posi- tive rating by Mothers Ag ainst Drunk Driving in the year before this government took over, so there won't be any opportunity for any Liberal government caucus member to stand up and say: "Yeah, but what did the previous administration do?" There is just no opportu- nity, and the proof is in th e ratings by Mothers Against Drunk Driving and how the rating has inexorably slipped under this administration.

In June 2002, Mothers Against Drunk Driving called for substantial reform of British Columbia's legislation, including a call for an interlock program and authorization for police to use passive alcohol sen- sors and demand breath samples from drivers involved in crashes that result in bodily harm.

In January 2003, Mothers Against Drunk Driving issues a news release that states that the Liberal gov- ernment's legislative agenda is "a recipe for increased drinking and driving and an inevitable increase in im- paired driving." Among the Liberal British Columbia government policies to which Mothers Against Drunk Driving objected in Januar y 2003 were these: allowing for the extension of bar hours to 4 a.m., privatizing liquor sales without adequately addressing regulation and enforcement, making liquor available at more out- lets, and possibly allowing alcohol to be sold on B.C. ferries.

I might just note that three of these four policy initiatives speculated upon by the government are re- alities and are all still in place. Anyway, the events of January 2003 in this prov- ince unfolded, and Mother s Against Drunk Driving praised the Premier for his meeting with Mothers Against Drunk Driving and making commitments to change in the province. Well , after that meeting, the report card by Mothers Against Drunk Driving showed that B.C. had slipped from second to eighth out of ten provinces in dealing with impaired driving.

The day after that report card was released by Mothers Against Drunk Driving, the Campbell government announced some limited proposals and said that they would con- sult with the public until August 31, 2003. The proposals under the new proposals highlighted in this discussion document listed that a driver given two 24-hour roadside suspensions in a two-year period would lose his licence for 90 days and that there would be a mandatory user-pay rehabilitation program for serious offenders.

Now, I'll be questioning the Solicitor General on whether this legislation is even as tough as that proposal on their initial discussion document, be- cause there is some question that this legislation isn't even as tough as their original proposals. What did Mothers Against Drunk Driving say about those proposals? Well, they stated that they weren't impressed by the Liberal government's pro- posals that came six months after the Premier's per- sonal incident. "They're not strict enough at all, and their proposals are no real solution," said Bob Rorison

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11571 of MADD's greater Vancouver chapter. "The user-pay rehabilitation sounds nice on paper, but they don't tell us what rehab is, and they don't tell us what is a seri- ous offender. If a drunk driver has killed somebody, then rehab is too late." [1540] On August 31, 2003, the pu blic consultation process ended. On March 12, 2004, there was an interesting report released by a physician, I think it was, and the report shows that almost 90 percent of hospitalized drunk drivers escape criminal convictions.

"That report proves that B.C. police ne ed greater powers," said Mothers Against Drunk Drivin g. That report showed that only 11 percent of hospitalized drivers whose blood showed they were legally impaired were later convicted of drunk driving offences. Of a total of 1,697 drivers who were hospitalized, 619 were impaired, with an average blood alcohol level more than twice the legal limit. In that news report in March of this year, the RCMP said that a new training program is being launched to teach B.C. officers how to obtain reasonable grounds to demand a blood sample for injured drivers.

While he welcomed the move, Bob Rorison, the head of the Van- couver

chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said that police need stricter legislation and more tools to get drunk driving convictions. I'll be exploring at committee stage what exactly the RCMP program is around improving their ability to get reasonable grounds to demand a blood sample from injured drivers. The legislation we're debating today does not address that issue at all.

On June 19 of this year Mothers Against Drunk Driving released their 2004 report, which I've already stated was the lowest rating, "needs improvement." Mothers Against Drunk Driving Canada's national president, Louise Knox, accused the Liberal govern- ment of "dragging its feet" on new legislation aimed at reducing drinking and driving. "Since our last report card in 2003, the province of B.C. hasn't done anything to address impaired driving other than some of the changes made to the graduated licensing program," Knox said.

She also noted that other provinces had taken ac- tion and were given the highest rating of setting a good example. Those provinces were Manitoba, Newfound- land and Labrador, and the Northwest Territories. "It surprises me in any provin ce, because impaired driv- ing is our country's number one criminal cause of death," Knox said.

"Four Canadians are killed every day, and under 200 are injured, so it's a huge problem in every province." The Solicitor General's response to Mothers Against Drunk Driving of Canada's comments about the Pre- mier's misadventure was that he was disappointed with MADD Canada's comments, and he was puzzled about MADD's criticism, especially considering that B.C. had introduced a tougher graduated licensing program in the summer of 2003 and had cracked down on drivers who have two roadside suspensions in a 24- hour period. That's the history of this…. Oh, I'm sorry. There's been one other incident since then.

In September of this year, 2004, Mothers Against Drunk Driving expressed outrage at a proposal to sell wine at a new mall at the Tsawwassen ferry terminal. "'The provincial govern- ment should see it as a highly risky idea and not allow it to take place,' Bob Rori son, interim president of MADD's Greater Vancouver chapter, said yesterday. Rorison promised his organization would fight the idea by writing letters to MLAs and personally lobbying them to take action." Then now, this week, we have the legislation intro- duced.

I must tell the Solicitor General that I'll be trying to extract a very firm commitment from him that that liquor outlet at the Tsawwassen ferry terminal will not be proceeding. [1545] I will also be questioning the Solicitor General at length about the expansion of private liquor outlets throughout this province — particularly in my own home city, Vancouver — and about how many munici- palities simply are saying to the government that this issue of zoning for private liquor outlets has been downloaded onto the municipalities.

They have neither the time nor the resources available to properly deal with this issue, yet the Solicitor General is going full speed ahead without listening to the concerns of either neighbourhoods or the municipalities. I'll also be quizzing the Solicitor General very closely about how, indeed, he is enforcing his own rules about private liquor stores having to be so many feet or kilometres away from public institutions such as day care centres and schools. We have evidence to the contrary that if those rules do exist, they aren't being enforced. Why is that important?

I know that this govern- ment doesn't like to admit there are already good ways of handling addictions, but there is evidence — solidly based, academic evidence — that improperly con- trolled distribution of alcohol increases addiction. Why? Because people who are not allowed to drink may have access to alcohol. Increased access to alcohol increases addiction. Yes, this is a legal substance, but it is…. Well, until this government came in, anyway, it was a controlled substance.

Those are all the questions I'll be asking the Solici- tor General about perhaps what are mixed messages this government is saying about their real intent in dealing with drunk driving. D. Jarvis: I t ' s a l w a y s a p l e a s u r e t o f o l l o w t h e Leader of the Opposition. I'm really pleased that she has now said their party is going to support this bill, although her speech sounded as though she came to bury Caesar, not to praise him. There are a few things she has said that have bothered me. I wanted to say that I am here today to support the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General.

He holds down the two positions. I am really quite proud of the fact that he has brought forward this bill. Later on I'll explain a situation that has happened to me.

11572 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2004 This bill certainly is a rather interesting bill and brings some new aspects to the drinking-driving situa- tion in this province. I am one of those people that is probably a little stronger than what the minister has put forward with regard to penalties. We all know that the really strong end of the penalty aspect of it has to come through the federal government, with changes to their Criminal Code. The mothers of MADD have suggested that the penalties should be stricter, but I'm afraid that aspect is covered under the Criminal Code.

We in this province are left with the point that we have to put legislation through on the margins of the legislation — the licens- ing aspect and perhaps the rehabilitation. We cannot put in the heavier penalties with regard to the Criminal Code, and that somewhat restricts us. This bill adds some new aspects to strengthen Brit- ish Columbia's aim to reduce the perils caused by drinking and driving.

This bill imposes the toughest measures available as yet, without having challenges come from the Charter, whic h also curtails the meas- ures in which we should put forward the penalties for the offences of drinking and driving. As I said, it is a federal matter. [1550] Impairment is no longer an acceptable challenge in this world, in this province especially. I'm encouraged that this government has given a strong emphasis to enforcement measures aimed solely at deterring, if not stopping, impaired and drunk driving in this province. It's an offensive behaviour. I come from a generation that actually grew up….

I know people, probably my- self included, thought that maybe impairment, when we were young, was a badge of courage, if you could drive home safely. Those things are changing. The next generation behind me, my son and my daughter, for example…. I know for a fact that if they intend to drink, they do not drive. They take a cab. I know now that children in the high sc hools, in the majority of cases, are looking at the situation — t h a t i t ' s v e r y r e - pugnant to be caught drinking and driving.

Things are getting better, an d it's measures like this bill here that will only emphasize the fact of how unac- ceptable it is to drink and drive. As I said, some say we haven't gone far enough. I tend to agree with that to a certain degree, but how far do we go without having problems with our legislation here? If we do what the opposition felt that we should do or the Mothers Against Drunk Driving have felt that we should do, it would probably result in challenges to our legislation.

The federal government is the one that has to change the Criminal Code so as to allow the province of British Columbia to make tougher laws that cannot be chal- lenged. As I said, this is probably the best that we can do at this time. My dear cousin, some time ago, was leaving a party, a family affair on the North Shore, and she was hit by a drunk driver who had crossed the centre line at Marine Drive in the lower part of Vancouver. She was killed instantly. This was a driver that happened to have been on suspension at that time for drunk driv- ing.

In this same accident he killed her husband, her son and one of her two daughters. He was obviously sick. The fact is that while he was awaiting trial, for example, he went out and got drunk again and was involved in another serious accident in which a pas- senger was injured. Obviously, he was a troubled young man and needed help. This is something that this bill will help in a lot of cases in the future. You know, it won't be the answer to everything. We always have our non-conformists out there that will do something regardless of what the law is.

If they get stopped for suspensions or if they have too many charges against them under the lesser charge of drunk driving, if the po lice pull them over through roadblocks and all the rest of it, then they'll end up in a position where their licence will be taken away, and they will be forced to go through rehabilitation. That is a good thing. As I said, there is certainly no place in our society today for drunk driving. In many instances, it's a mis- take in judgment. In most of the instances, the alcohol or the addiction that they'r e involved with has taken o v e r .

I t ' s u n f o r t u n a t e f o r t h a t i n d i v i d u a l i f h e o r s h e ends up in jail, but we also have to consider — and this is what this bill is going to help, I think — the people and the families that are he lped afterwards because of losing someone in that situation. I want to again commend the Solicitor General for this bill. It's going to be a good bill. As I said, it's a start to something better. Nothing is ever perfect in our so- ciety. Drinking and driving is something that cannot be tolerated, and that is why I intend to support Bill 66. [1555] B.

Penner: I, too, rise in support of Bill 66, which I think is a progressive piece of legislation that adds to the toolkit for the law enforcement community in Brit- ish Columbia to deal with the scourge of drinking and driving. I was start

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	h1019pm-11
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	h1019pm 11
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	bfbe95e5fae6190152fc151b632340c70d36a259

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