Alberta Hansard — 6 May 2009, Afternoon sitting (13:30) (Legislature 27, Session 2)

20090506

Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

Province of Alberta The 27th Legislature Second Session Alberta Hansard Wednesday, May 6, 2009 Issue 36 The Honourable Kenneth R. Kowalski, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature Second Session Kowalski, Hon. Ken, Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock, Speaker Cao, Wayne C.N., Calgary-Fort, Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees Mitzel, Len, Cypress-Medicine Hat, Deputy Chair of Committees Ady, Hon. Cindy, Calgary-Shaw (PC), Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation Allred, Ken, St.

Albert (PC) Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC) Anderson, Rob, Airdrie-Chestermere (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Solicitor General and Public Security Benito, Carl, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Berger, Evan, Livingstone-Macleod (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Sustainable Resource Development Bhardwaj, Naresh, Edmonton-Ellerslie (PC) Bhullar, Manmeet Singh, Calgary-Montrose (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Advanced Education and Technology Blackett, Hon.

Lindsay, Calgary-North West (PC), Minister of Culture and Community Spirit Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (AL), Deputy Leader of the Official Opposition Official Opposition House Leader Boutilier, Guy C., Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo (PC) Brown, Dr. Neil, QC, Calgary-Nose Hill (PC) Calahasen, Pearl, Lesser Slave Lake (PC) Campbell, Robin, West Yellowhead (PC), Deputy Government Whip Chase, Harry B., Calgary-Varsity (AL), Official Opposition Whip Dallas, Cal, Red Deer-South (PC) Danyluk, Hon. Ray, Lac La Biche-St.

Paul (PC), Minister of Municipal Affairs DeLong, Alana, Calgary-Bow (PC) Denis, Jonathan, Calgary-Egmont (PC) Doerksen, Arno, Strathmore-Brooks (PC) Drysdale, Wayne, Grande Prairie-Wapiti (PC) Elniski, Doug, Edmonton-Calder (PC) Evans, Hon. Iris, Sherwood Park (PC), Minister of Finance and Enterprise Fawcett, Kyle, Calgary-North Hill (PC) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (PC) Fritz, Hon. Yvonne, Calgary-Cross (PC), Minister of Housing and Urban Affairs Goudreau, Hon.

Hector G., Dunvegan-Central Peace (PC), Minister of Employment and Immigration Griffiths, Doug, Battle River-Wainwright (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Agriculture and Rural Development Groeneveld, Hon. George, Highwood (PC), Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Hancock, Hon. Dave, QC, Edmonton-Whitemud (PC), Minister of Education, Government House Leader Hayden, Hon. Jack, Drumheller-Stettler (PC), Minister of Infrastructure Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (AL) Horne, Fred, Edmonton-Rutherford (PC) Horner, Hon. Doug, Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St.

Albert (PC), Minister of Advanced Education and Technology Jablonski, Hon. Mary Anne, Red Deer-North (PC), Minister of Seniors and Community Supports Jacobs, Broyce, Cardston-Taber-Warner (PC) Johnson, Jeff, Athabasca-Redwater (PC) Johnston, Art, Calgary-Hays (PC) Kang, Darshan S., Calgary-McCall (AL) Klimchuk, Hon. Heather, Edmonton-Glenora (PC), Minister of Service Alberta Knight, Hon. Mel, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC), Minister of Energy Leskiw, Genia, Bonnyville-Cold Lake (PC) Liepert, Hon. Ron, Calgary-West (PC), Minister of Health and Wellness Lindsay, Hon.

Fred, Stony Plain (PC), Solicitor General and Minister of Public Security Lukaszuk, Thomas A., Edmonton-Castle Downs (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Municipal Affairs Lund, Ty, Rocky Mountain House (PC) MacDonald, Hugh, Edmonton-Gold Bar (AL) Marz, Richard, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (PC) Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood (NDP), Leader of the NDP Opposition McFarland, Barry, Little Bow (PC) McQueen, Diana, Drayton Valley-Calmar (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Environment Morton, Hon.

F.L., Foothills-Rocky View (PC), Minister of Sustainable Resource Development Notley, Rachel, Edmonton-Strathcona (NDP), Deputy Leader of the NDP Opposition, NDP Opposition House Leader Oberle, Frank, Peace River (PC), Government Whip Olson, Verlyn, QC, Wetaskiwin-Camrose (PC) Ouellette, Hon. Luke, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (PC), Minister of Transportation Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (AL), Deputy Official Opposition Whip Prins, Ray, Lacombe-Ponoka (PC) Quest, Dave, Strathcona (PC) Redford, Hon. Alison M., QC, Calgary-Elbow (PC), Minister of Justice and Attorney General Renner, Hon.

Rob, Medicine Hat (PC), Minister of Environment, Deputy Government House Leader Rodney, Dave, Calgary-Lougheed (PC) Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont-Devon (PC) Sandhu, Peter, Edmonton-Manning (PC) Sarich, Janice, Edmonton-Decore (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Education Sherman, Dr. Raj, Edmonton-Meadowlark (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Health and Wellness Snelgrove, Hon. Lloyd, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC), President of the Treasury Board Stelmach, Hon. Ed, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (PC), Premier, President of Executive Council Stevens, Hon.

Ron, QC, Calgary-Glenmore (PC), Deputy Premier, Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations Swann, Dr. David, Calgary-Mountain View (AL), Leader of the Official Opposition Taft, Dr. Kevin, Edmonton-Riverview (AL) Tarchuk, Hon. Janis, Banff-Cochrane (PC), Minister of Children and Youth Services Taylor, Dave, Calgary-Currie (AL) VanderBurg, George, Whitecourt-Ste.

Anne (PC) Vandermeer, Tony, Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview (PC) Weadick, Greg, Lethbridge-West (PC) Webber, Len, Calgary-Foothills (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Energy Woo-Paw, Teresa, Calgary-Mackay (PC) Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Employment and Immigration Zwozdesky, Hon. Gene, Edmonton-Mill Creek (PC), Minister of Aboriginal Relations, Deputy Government House Leader Officers and Officials of the Legislative Assembly Clerk W.J. David McNeil Clerk Assistant/ Director of House Services Louise J. Kamuchik Clerk of Journals/Table Research Micheline S.

Gravel Senior Parliamentary Counsel Robert H. Reynolds, QC Senior Parliamentary Counsel Shannon Dean Sergeant-at-Arms Brian G. Hodgson Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms J. Ed Richard Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms William C. Semple Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Liz Sim

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 985 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. Wednesday, May 6, 2009 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers The Speaker: Good afternoon and welcome. Let us pray. In our mind’s eye let us see the awesome grandeur of the Rockies, the denseness of our forests, the fertility of our farmland, the splendour of our rivers, the richness of our resources, the energy of our people. Then let us rededicate ourselves as wise stewards of such bounty on behalf of all Albertans. Amen. Please be seated. head: Introduction of Visitors The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Meadowlark. Dr. Sherman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my honour to intro- duce to you and through you to members of this Assembly Sine Chadi, a former member of the 1993 to ’97 Legislative Assembly, the Member for Edmonton-Roper; Mr. Henry Mah, a wise elder from the Edmonton Chinese community as well as a member of the Order of Canada; as well, Dr. S.P. Singh, who is a retired professor from the University of Alberta and the president of the Indian societies of Edmonton as well as a humanitarian. I would ask my friends to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay. Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my great pleasure to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly some guests that are seated in your gallery: Consul Hou Danna from the Chinese Consulate General office in Calgary as well as Mr. Felix Guerrero, honorary consul general of the Philippines for southern Alberta. These guests are here today to join in the kickoff of Asian Heritage Month. They both play a key role in making the From Asian Shores to Alberta Prairies initiative a success.

The Chinese consulate is donating 1,000 books to the regional library system. head: Introduction of Guests The Speaker: The hon. Member for Rocky Mountain House. Mr. Lund: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have the great honour to introduce to you and to members of the Legislature a group of Canadian Comprehensive Auditing Foundation fellows who are sitting in your gallery. They are participants in a nine-month international fellowship program based in Ontario, in Ottawa, and are visiting us today as part of the tour of western Canada.

Sponsored by the Canadian International Development Agency, the fellowship program is a collaboration between the office of the Auditor General of Alberta, the office of the Auditor General of Canada, and the Comprehensive Auditing Foundation. Our guests are from Ghana, Guyana, Kenya, St. Lucia, and Thailand, and two are from Vietnam. They are accompanied today by their hosts from the offices of the Auditor General of Canada and the Auditor General of Alberta. I would now ask all of our guests to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar.

Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am thrilled to stand here today and introduce a very special class to you and through you to the Assembly. The grade 6 class from St. Anthony school in Drayton Valley along with their teacher Dawn McConnell and parent helpers Charlene Wojcicki and Sharon Davidson are in the members’ gallery today. I would like to point out one student in particular who is very special to me, my youngest daughter, Courtney Siobhan, a politician in her own right. It is wonderful to have Courtney and her classmates and teacher and parent helpers here today.

I am sure they thoroughly enjoyed their tour and a special stop at the Premier’s office. I would ask them to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo. Mr. Boutilier: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce through you to members of the Assembly three grade 6 classes from Timberlea school in the oil sands capital of the world – you might have heard of it – Fort McMurray, Alberta. It’s my pleasure to greet them, their bus driver, and their teachers. There are 82 of them here today.

I’d like to ask them to rise and receive the very warm welcome of the Assembly. They’re entering as we speak. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. President of the Treasury Board. Mr. Snelgrove: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly the government’s first group of policy interns. They’re co-ordinated by corporate human resources. The new policy internship program provides postsecondary graduate students interested in the field of public policy a unique opportunity to work side by side with seasoned policy professionals in government.

This talented group will contribute to important policy initiatives that will impact Alberta. The policy internship program is part of the government’s workforce plan to attract and retain employees to ensure a bright and prosperous future for all Albertans. I can assure you that after meeting with this group, the future of our public service looks extremely positive. I would ask these interns in the members’ gallery to please rise and accept the warm welcome of this Assem- bly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Technology. Mr. Horner: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It’s an honour to rise and introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a group of four people who donated some funds to a charity in St. Albert at the St. Albert Housing Society fundraising breakfast. We invited them to come here and have lunch and tour the Legislature. They did that, and we had a great chat at lunch today, talking about developments in St. Albert and the world economy and a number of technology innovations that we’re doing. They’re seated in the members’ gallery this afternoon. I would ask that they stand as I call their names.

They are Bob and Lori Holm and Paul and Adrina Falkowski. I’d ask all members to give them the warmest greetings of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for St. Albert. Mr. Allred: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to rise today to introduce to you and through you an old friend of mine, Bill Hunter.

Alberta Hansard May 6, 2009986 He’s seated in the public gallery. Bill is presently from Calgary. He’s formerly from the Gulch. People might recognize that as Dinosaur park, Drumheller. Bill and I go back a long way, 50 years actually, to when we were survey partners at SAIT though it wasn’t SAIT then. It was actually the Provincial Institute of Technology and Art in those days. Bill and a group of us went to school together, worked together, lived to gether, and partied together for many years. Bill is up here today meeting with the hon. Member for Edmonton-Meadowlark.

I’d ask my colleagues in the Assembly to give Bill the warm traditional welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Athabasca-Redwater. Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a pleasure to rise and introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly six very special people from the constituency of Athabasca-Redwater who are also good friends and very involved community workers.

They’ve come in today to have lunch with me and talk about a whole raft of subjects that are important to our constituency: Jack Dennett from Redwater, Noel Major from Athabasca, Bob and Mabel Dick from Athabasca, Deb Croswell from Thorhild, and Carol Lund from Athabasca. I’d ask them to please rise and receive the trad itional warm welcome of this House. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay. Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to rise today to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly some visitors from Calgary.

They ’re here to join in the kickoff of Asian Heritage Month event earlier today. Some of them are seated in your gallery. We have Dr. Mayi Arcellana-Panlilio, a professor at the U of C and cochair of the Asian Heritage Foundation. She played a leadership role in raising $10,000 for the book donation this afternoon. Next to her we have Mr. Vladimir Panlilio, an engineer who volunteers with the foundation. He played a key role in preparing the big cheque for the donation today. Then we have Ms Tuyet Lam, a board member of the AHF and one of the most active members of Calgary’s Vietnamese community.

She was instrumen- tal in raising $10,000 for the book project. Then seated in the gallery we have Ms Nancy Li, a student at the University of Calgary, who performed the beautiful Carmen piece for us this afternoon in the rotunda. Mr. Yang Li, professor at the University of Calgary, today played the special role of driver for Ms Nancy Li. We also have Mr.

Ron Sheppard, chairman of the Parkland Regional library system, who was here earlier this afternoon to accept a donation from the Heritage Foundation for the purpose of purchasing multilingual books. 1:40 If you would allow me to finish another set of introductions. The Edmonton Multicultural Health Brokers Co-operative helped us to organize the lunch for this afternoon’s event. This group together with the Edmonton public library is developing a formal partnership to engage immigrant and refugee communities in designing relevant programs and innovative collaborations.

Seated in the members’ gallery we have Ms Linda Williams, from the Edmonton public library, who co-chairs the committee. From the Multicultural Health Brokers Co-operative we have Ms Nasreen Omar, president of the board of directors; Ms Nhan Lu, vice-president of the board; Ms Tigist Dafla, board member; and Mrs Dormitorio, who is a Filipino member who has been working with the Mill Woods community library. I would like to ask members of the House to give them the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I’m just delighted to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly the newest member of the constituency office team in the fabulous constituency of Edmonton-Centre. Joining me under the STEP program this summer is a young man named Jordan. I’ll ask Jordan to stand. Jordan is a student at the University of Alberta. He is in the final year of his political science degree, which is why it’s always a good idea to come and work in a constituency office. After many years of being on the outside looking in, he is interested in being on the other side.

Please join me in welcoming Jordan Taft to the Alberta Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Meadowlark. Dr. Sherman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my honour to introduce to you and through you sitting in the members’ gallery Mr. Amarjeet Sohi. He’s one of our local leaders from the city of Edmonton, city councillor from ward 6. He’s also on safe communities and, I believe, one of the first Indo-Canadians elected to city council in Edmonton. Also sitting in the gallery behind me is Mr. Ned Lee, president of the Lee association of Edmonton, as well as Mrs.

Lai Chu Li Kong, vice-chair of the Edmonton Chinatown Multi-cultural Centre as well as chairman of the Edmonton Chinese library foundation. I would ask them all to rise so they can receive the traditional warm welcome of my friends in this Assembly. Thank you. head: Members’ Statements The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Asian Heritage Month Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In 2002 May was officially designated as Asian Heritage Month in recognition of the important contributions of Asian Canadians to the settlement, growth, social, and cultural development of Canada.

In addition, various groups have been organizing events to celebrate Asian Heritage Month in Alberta since 2001. Asian Heritage Month engages people of all backgrounds through pan-Asian cultural events that foster awareness of the broad spectrum of Asian Canadians’ social participation and cultural heritage. With your background, Mr. Speaker, in East Asian history, I’m sure that you can attest that Asian Heritage Month is all about culture and history.

The presence of Asian Canadians in Alberta dates back many, many years, and currently Asian Canadians make up 15 per cent of the population in Alberta’s two major cities. Mr. Speaker, I’m proud to represent a province that is as culturally strong and diverse as Alberta. As you can see, we have one of the most if not the most diverse representative bodies in all of North America, and that is something to be proud of. I want to thank all those who immigrated here over the years for their contribution to the culture of Alberta, and I hope this culture continues to flourish. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Athabasca-Redwater. Wildfire Update Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Wildfires are burning in many communities across the province, and some of these fires are

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 987 threatening homes and businesses. As I understand it, three homes were lost in my constituency alone yesterday. As we can all imagine, residents watching the flames can be filled with fear and anxiety. On behalf of the Premier and every one of our caucus I want to recognize the tremendous efforts of the volunteer firefighters, who are working 24 hours a day to ensure the safety and security of the families who call these commun ities home. The services and support provided to the local residents is truly remarkable.

Most of the firefighters battling these blazes are volunteers, making tremen- dous sacrifices and taking time away from their work and their families. Their selfless dedication is a true reflection of Albertans’ willingness to support and protect their neighbours. I know of a Canadian soldier who just returned from Afghanistan, came home Thursday, changed his boots, and has been on the front line in Lamont fighting the fires since Sunday. Another volunteer has been on the scene full-time. He told his boss that the fires are where he had to be, and he didn’t know when he would be back to work. Mr.

Speaker, I’d like to acknowledge the efforts of all these volunteers, who selflessly go beyond the call of duty, working long hours and fighting exhaustion. Their efforts are nothing short of heroic. These brave individuals are supported by a range of agencies, including RCMP, Alberta Sustainable Resource Develop- ment, Alberta Emergency Management Agency, Service Alberta, volunteer organizations, and by their municipalities, neighbours, and communities. The efforts of everyone are truly invaluable in this time of crisis.

On behalf of the Premier, all of my colleagues, and the residents of these communities I want to extend a heartfelt thanks to everyone who was there and to those who are still there to ensure our commu- nities and families are safe. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Mental Health Services Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This morning I attended the Canadian Mental Health Association, Edmonton region, meet and greet breakfast.

Since I’m already quite familiar with the decline in mental health services under this administration, the concerns of the people in attendance came as no surprise. But this administration needs to hear these concerns, pressingly so, and I’m passing them on today. Since the indiscriminate closure of mental health beds in the province years ago, Albertans needing treatment for mental health problems have had few places to go.

As a result, many Albertans with mental illness have wound up on the streets, plugging our emergency wards and hospital beds and simply struggling along as best they can, with a vastly reduced quality of life, at risk to themselves and to others. While I acknowledge the renewed commitment to child mental health in this administration, we are simply providing inadequate services in this province. As citizens we have a solemn duty to take care of each other, especially our most vulnerable. Instead, this administration has abdicated its responsibility, with costly and tragic results. Again, Mr.

Speaker, penny-wise, pound-foolish. In addition to the moral imperative, we see that homelessness, emergency care cost increases, family impacts, policing, lack of productivity far outweigh the costs of treatment in a properly funded system. One message this morning rang out clearest of all: it’s time to stop treating mental illness as a stigma and a poor second cousin within the health care system. The stigma of mental health is unacceptable and unjust to Albertans suffering from real medical problems. Education is needed, both in the public at large and for this adminis- tration.

The Auditor General himself has said repeatedly that we are not meeting the mark, with incomplete standards and gaps in services. I urge the administration to invest in mental health and assign it the priority it deserves. A healthy Alberta is possible when we make the appropriate commitments to mental health services. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. head: Oral Question Period The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Health System Restructuring Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government has finally admitted that their goal is to pr ivatize health care.

I was disap- pointed this week in estimates to hear the minister of health say: “It’s about time we started running health care like a $7 billion business and not having it run by health care professionals. I’m not going to sit here and have a board of health . . . professionals running a $7 billion business.” Thank you for making the Premier’s intentions quite clear. To the minister: when did this government decide that health care was a business? Mr. Liepert: Well, Mr.

Speaker, this Leader of the Opposition can’t figure out that when we are spending some 13 billion dollars of taxpayers’ money, we should be running it like a business is run. What the hon. leader failed to mention in his

preamble was the question that he asked, and the question was around something to the effect: why wasn’t our new board made up of health care profession- als? My response was: we have health care professionals who are involved in the delivery of the system, but when it comes to the governance model, we need to ensure that we have the best and brightest minds in the world. 1:50 Dr. Swann: So is this minister saying that there are no qualified health professionals in Alberta to sit on this board? Mr. Liepert: I never said that at all, Mr. Speaker.

What I said is that we have outstanding qualified health professionals who are doing outstanding work in delivering health care. It never hurts to have some outside views as to what works and what doesn’t work. In many cases our board members have experience in other regions – in fact, in one case another country – to bring a different view to health care. If we want to stay with the same narrow, myopic view that the opposition parties have, we will always have a system that, quite frankly, at this stage is no longer sustainable if we don’t make changes.

It is not as accessible as it needs to be to meet the needs of Albertans and it is not effective and it is not efficient. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again the minister is launching out on a new experiment for the health care system. I would just like to ask the minister what evidence he has to shift now to a business model for health care delivery in Alberta. Mr. Liepert: Well, Mr. Speaker, let’s be clear. This is not an experiment. This is the model that will be going forward to deliver

Alberta Hansard May 6, 2009988 health care in this province. Already there are successes out there. We had a three-hour debate in estimates the other night. I pointed out a number of success stories. He chooses to ignore those, and that’s fine. But as I talk to Albe rtans in this province, they tell me consistently: you as government are on the right path, keep moving forward, and don’t blink. The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. H1N1 Influenza Virus Exposure Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, once again we’re seeing evidence across the province that communications around influenza are somewhat smattered and inconsistent. One Calgary school, for example, has sent messages to their parents that influenza is affecting the school while schools in Edmonton are being kept out of information when there’s a case of influenza. Could the minister clarify why there is already inconsistency and uncertainty and a sense of hiding information in Alberta around this new H1N1 influenza? Mr. Liepert: Mr. Speaker, I’ll answer that question on behalf of the Minister of Education.

The process that we have taken right from day one is that if it is a school-aged child that has been identified as one that has tested positive for the influenza, the sc hool board is notified. School boards are locally elected bodies. They have the right to make a decision in conjunction with the principal as to whether or not it is significant enough to inform the parents. Some have chosen, as I understand it, to communicate to parents; others may not have. But, surely, that’s a decision that a locally elected school board can make. Dr. Swann: Well, again, Mr.

Speaker, the restructuring of the health system is creating unwarranted anxiety and breakdowns in commu- nication. I’m hearing from a number of regions that they’re looking to their health unit, some are looking to their medical officer, some are looking to the province, some are looking to their school board for direction. Are these medical decisions going to be made at the school board level, Mr. Minister? Mr. Liepert: Well, Mr. Speaker, in the time that I’ve been in this Assembly, I’m not quite sure that I’ve heard a remark coming from someone with medical training that could be such an absurd comment.

The Leader of the Opposition knows full well, he’s been told consistently all week that the chief medical officer of health is the one that is leading this communications effort. It has been going exceedingly well, to plan. I guess what is irritating the Leader of the Opposition is that he has nothing controversial to grab onto, so he starts to invent things that he thinks he’s heard out there from people in Alberta. The Speaker: The hon. leader? Dr. Swann: No further questions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: Third Official Opposition main question. The hon. Member for Calgary-McCall.

Stucco Exterior Wallcovering Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our caucus fought this government on the pine shakes scandal, standing up for homeown- ers’ rights, but this government doesn’t learn. Now homeowners are facing more costs as a result of bad building practices. What is a condo buyer to do? They trust this government to have effective standards, and this government has let them down again. To the Minister of Municipal Affairs: why hasn’t the government improved the building codes to stop this bad construction? Mr. Danyluk: Well, Mr. Speaker, this government has indeed improved the building codes.

It has improved the building codes in regard to the high-intensity residential fires. We also did receive a handful of calls with complaints about building practices. From that we got the hon. Member for Edmonton-Castle Downs to do an investigation and consultation with key stakeholders, and that member has provided me with his recommendations. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What is the government going to do to support homeowners who are now out thousands and thousands of dollars because of the bad standard this government has allowed for years? Mr. Danyluk: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I’m not sure exactly what bad standard he’s talking about. We have the Safety Codes Council, that monitors the building codes and the safety codes of buildings in this province on a regular basis. They do an incredibly professional job. We as a government make sure that if there are situations or there are concerns or there are problems, we address them. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are thousands of homes which could rot because of the stucco covering linked to leaky walls. To the minister again. The minister has had months to get this done.

Monitoring, reviewing, waiting: these are all specialities of this government. Unfortunately, action isn’t. When can Albertans finally expect action on this issue? Mr. Danyluk: Well, Mr. Speaker, this is very interesting. We have one individual that brought forward a concern. The member opposite read it in the paper, and all of a sudden it’s a concern for months. That particular concern that he’s talking about was brought to my attention yesterday, and we are looking into it. I’ve asked my Safety Codes Council as well as the assistant deputy minister who is in charge to look into that concern.

The question is not so much, as I know it right now, a question of product but a question of workmanship. We’re looking into it. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Norwood, followed by the hon. Member for Strathcona. Parental Choice in Education Mr. Mason: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker. This government has dismissed NDP assertions that allowing teachers to be hauled before the Human Rights Commission for teaching something that a parent doesn’t like will hurt education in this province. “Absolutely ludicrous,” said the Education minister. “Flights of fancy,” said the culture minister.

Well, parents, teachers, sc hool superintendents, and school boards have all said that the NDP was right and the government was wrong. In light of this, is the Minister of Culture and Community Spirit willing to dr op his attempt to enshrine so- called parental rights in the human rights system?

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 989 Speaker’s Ruling Anticipation The Speaker: Okay. Hon. members, yesterday I advised hon. members that we do have an Order Paper. This bill is up for debate this afternoon. I indicated that prior to the date in which the bill was up for debate, we’d allow questions in the question period, but we’ll not use the time of the question peri od if that bill is up this after- noon. If you’ve got a short response, fine, but we’re not going to spend three questions on something that’s going to be debated this afternoon in this House. Parental Choice in Education (continued) Mr. Blackett: Mr.

Speaker, we’ll save the debate for this afternoon, but I’ve got a copy of the press release, and I don’t see anywhere that they say that the New Democratic Party was right. Mr. Mason: That’s perhaps because the minister of culture can’t read between the lines. Groups representing Alberta’s school councils, t eachers, school superintendents, and elected school boards agree with Alberta’s NDP that this government’s policy will have a negative impact on the education of children.

Given this view, coming from all sectors of the public education system, will the minister of culture admit that he is wrong and withdraw this ill-conceived policy before he does some real damage to Albertans’ education system? The Speaker: The hon. minister if you wish. Mr. Blackett: We’ll save the debate, Mr. Speaker, for this after- noon. 2:00 Mr. Mason: Well, Mr. Speaker, that was a question about policy. Enshrining the rights of children not to learn about certain things in human rights is about as backward a step as there could be.

It will not only make it harder for teachers to teach; it will make it harder for children to learn. Given that teachers, parents, superintendents, and public school boards have not been consulted, will the minister agree to withdraw these changes until the concerns of these groups have been addressed? Please answer the question. The Speaker: No. That’s not the way it works. We have rules that we follow. We’re moving on. The hon. Member for Strathcona, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Wildfire Update Mr. Quest: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Wildfires have been burning out of control in many Alberta communities. My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Can the minister please provide an update on the wildfire situation in Strathcona and Lamont counties? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Danyluk: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Lamont county and Strathcona county both have fires that still aren’t completely under control. Our agency has deployed its mobile command unit to assist the fighting of these fires. These counties have declared local states of disaster.

The concern with these two counties is the two fires joining together because of the extensive- ness of the fire. There are residences that have been evacuated. We will continue to provide the resour ces and expertise to help these communities and their residents. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Quest: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister: what’s the status of the fire in Sturgeon? Mr. Danyluk: Mr. Speaker, last night the fire in Sturgeon was very active, and it’s now partially under control. They did declare a state of emergency yesterday, and several homes have been damaged and destroyed.

The local emergency operations centre activated in your constituency in Morinville. The Alberta Emergency Management mobile unit has also been deployed for this fire. We have a recep- tion centre for evacuees set up in Gibbons, and we’re trying to co- ordinate the efforts and will continue to do so. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Quest: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also for the same minister. There have also been several recent fires in many other areas of the province. Could the minister give us an update on the status of those fires? Mr. Danyluk: Well, Mr.

Speaker, yes, we did have approximately 20 fires that have been raging through Alberta. The fires in these areas have been reported to be contained or extinguished, and that is very much thanks to the continuing support and the assistance of volunteers and professionals. We continue to provide support and assistance also to the four First Nation communities in Hobbema as well as the Saddle Lake First Nation. We very much want to thank all of the agencies and the firefighters for the work that they are doing in battling these fires. Provincial Electoral Divisions Mr. Hehr: Mr.

Speaker, at a time when government should be cautious about adding to the bottom line, this government is adding four more MLAs to this Legislature. A rough and ready calculation indicates this would cost taxpayers an additional $10 million over a four-year term. To the Justice minister. Albertans need four more MLAs like a dog needs fleas. Why are we saddling the taxpayers with these additional costs? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Justice and Attorney General. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my humble opinion, MLAs play a pretty important

part in effectively representing Albertans. What we know about this province is that in the past five or six years we’ve experienced tremendous growth. We’ve had to make very difficult decisions. We’ve wanted to make sure that Albertans get great service, we want to make sure that Albertans are effectively represented, and we believe that an increase in the number of seats will allow that to happen. Mr. Hehr: Mr. Speaker, this is just another example of this adminis- tration’s big-government approach to governing Alberta.

To the Justice minister: considering the economics and our current techno- logical capabilities, can’t we make do with 83 MLAs in this Assembly? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

Alberta Hansard May 6, 2009990 Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a complicated business. This is so mething that’s going to get to, I think, the fundamentals as to how we want to govern ourselves in this province. We think it’s very important that as this province grows, we don’t look in a parochial way or a backward way at how we’ve done things before. We think this province is growing and changing, it’s diverse, and it needs to have effective representation. An increase in the number of seats will allow that to happen. Mr. Hehr: Well, Mr.

Speaker, without moving too far outside my own job description, I did notice that B.C. has a larger population and less MLAs. Why don’t we follow their lead instead of following this big government approach to doing things? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We sit in this Assembly every day. We debate matters of important public policy. We think that it’s important for Albertans to have a voice in this House. We think it’s important as a government for people to be elected to this House and to be able to talk about public policy.

We know from the opposition that they seem to have some difficulty with that and have some 1-800 number where they think people should be able to call in and ask questions. We think that that’s an important piece of dialogue but that people should be elected to effectively represent Albertans. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Athabasca-Redwater, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Wildfire Assistance Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, this year my constituency is once again affected by wildfires.

We know the volunteer firefighters are out there on the front lines working 24 hours a day doing a tremendous job to protect their neighbours and their communities and their municipalities. My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Can the minister tell us how we as a government are supporting these firefighting efforts? Mr. Danyluk: Well, Mr. Speaker, I visited the fires last night, and I really want to pass on the appreciation of the government for the efforts of the volunteers. I talked to the Premier, and he’s very concerned and will be heading to the sites when he does return.

We have activated the Government Emergency Operations Centre to co- ordinate the response. We are on-scene with equipment and getting additional resources. We’re partnering with municipalities, SRD, Service Alberta. Just as a point of interest, last night I talked to an individual who has not gone home since Sunday, and I asked him how he does it. He says: “You know, there’s only one thing that motivates me. I know that they would support me the same if I was in the same situation.” The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister.

He indicates that he was actually at the fires last night. While I can commend the minister and the Alberta Emergency Management Agency and the municipalities who are co-ordinating the efforts, we know that many of these firefighters are volunteers. Can he elaborate about the role that they are playing in these efforts? Mr. Danyluk: Well, Mr. Speaker, I would say, I guess, in short, that it’s nothing short of heroic. We have individuals that are putting their lives on the line for communities and for their neighbourhoods.

They are well trained and committed to serving, and we’re doing everything we can to support them. Their neighbours are supporting the firefighters by providing food, by providing support. This is a community effort in time of disaster and emergency. This is when communities pull together to support each other. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My second supplemental is to the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development. I know that his department gets engaged and is engaged in these firefighting efforts.

Can the minister tell us what resources his department has committed to fighting these wildfires? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Dr. Morton: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to start by thanking the Minister of Municipal Affairs for being on the front lines last night and being there with the volunteer fighters and the communi- ties there that are fighting them and congratulate those people for their bravery. Our priority responsibility is in the green zone. We’ve had 217 fires in those areas already. Fortunately, at the moment we have spare capacity.

With the fires at Strathcona and Lamont we’ve been able to send in 90 SRD firefighters to join the 100 volunteer fighters that are there. Plus, components of the Alberta air force are there, the air tanker and two helicopters plus several bulldozers. We’ve provided similar support in other areas of the province. So long as we have spare capacity, SRD is ready and willing to be there to help our communities. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Fort. 2:10 Nursing Shortage Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As part of the imple- mentation of Vision 2020, the government’s latest scheme to increase the role of private operators in public health care – my first question is to the Minister of Employment and Immigration. What are the recruitment targets this year to address the critical shortage of all nurses here in Alberta? Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, that’s an excellent question. Our ministry is well aware of the shortages of health professionals in the province of Alberta. We are main taining our efforts in recruiting and attracting individuals in that particular field from around the world.

We will continue to hold various fairs across individual countries to bring additional support here. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again to the same minister: what is the ratio of registered nurses to licensed practical nurses recruitment by the department this year? Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, we have needs on both sides. I really don’t have those numbers at my fingertips. I don’t have those ratios there. Certainly, those numbers could mostly likely be made available if the hon. member wants them.

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 991 The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I’ll take the hon. minister up on that. Certainly, Dr. Duckett is quite curious about what this ratio will be, according to his blog. Now to the Minister of Health and Wellness. In 2008 there were 6 RNs per 1 LPN in the old Capital health region, according to their annual report. According to the annual report of the Calgary health region, there were 9 RNs to 1 LPN, and it was a 2 to 1 ratio in the old East Central region.

What ratio is the province now going to implement for registered nurses and licensed practical nurses in your Vision 2020 scheme? Mr. Liepert: Mr. Speaker, you know, if life were as simple as what this hon. member tries to make it out to be, that everything could have ratios – what the Alberta Health Services management team is going to be doing is ensuring that all efforts are made to have the right care provider in the right place at the right time. That may be an LPN. It may be a registered nurse. In some cases it might be a combination with an aide.

There is a whole variety of ways to ensure that we provide the health care that Albertans need. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fort, followed by the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. Alberta Law Enforcement Response Team Mr. Cao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A recent public update on activities of the province-funded Alberta law enforcement response team shows that ALERT enforcement units are making good headway in preventing serious and violent crime. Two hundred and nineteen police officers and support personnel arrested 133 individu- als over a period of three months.

My constituents and all Albertans are encouraged by the results and hope that even more could be done. My question today is to the hon. Solicitor General and Minister of Public Security. What I’m curious . . . The Speaker: Well, you’ve now got the question. Time finished. It’s the response time now. Mr. Lindsay: Well, Mr. Speaker, what I will talk about is how effective the ALERT model has been in tackling serious and violent crime in our province.

With an approach that emphasizes integration and co-ordination, the ALERT units target organized crime and gangs as well as online child exploitation in a very effective manner. These investigations do require substantial time and resources to gather intelligence information, identify targets, and gather enough evidence to make arrests. I’m confident that through the efforts of ALERT we’ll continue to reduce the negative impacts of crime in this province. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Cao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same hon. minister. You indicated that ALERT units are doing an effective job.

Does that mean that we can expect the same results every quarter or more effectiveness using the same resources, more arrests, more drugs and guns seized, and more gang members taken off our streets? Mr. Lindsay: Well, Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member that the great work of ALERT will continue. Again, our top priority in this province is to reduce crime so that Albertans are safe, and that means targeting and arresting those who have no respect for laws and use violence and intimidation. We will continue to do every- thing we can to bring those people to justice. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr.

Cao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same hon. minister. My constituents are very glad that government continues to take strong action in combatting gangs and violent crimes. W ill the changed ALERT model that you are considering put more police on our streets? Mr. Lindsay: Mr. Speaker, ALERT has been up and running now for a couple of years, and, yes, we are looking at refining the model to make sure it operates more effectively. We are doing that, and we’re sure that these changes will improve the efficiency of our police across the province.

Having said that, in regard to the comments about additional police, our Premier spoke about that numerous times. We will be adding four integrated gang units in April, made up of 67 members, to address ongoing gang and organized crime activities in the province. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Lobbyists Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recent news out of Sas- katchewan illustrates that they performed their due diligence when attempting to maintain a presence in Washington, DC.

My questions would be to the Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations. The Alberta taxpayers are paying $40,000 a month for two high-priced lobbyists in Washington, DC, while the government of Saskatchewan just hired a former U.S. ambassador for less money. Why didn’t this government hire David Wilkins for less money? Mr. Stevens: Well, I was just meeting with Ambassador Wilkins yesterday, as a matter of fact. I think that Saskatchewan did an excellent job in selecting Ambassador Wilkins to represent their interests.

I can tell you that Ambassador Wilkins is a good friend of Canada, a good friend of the west, and we’re looking forward to working with Saskatchewan and Ambassador Wilkins in addressing the oil sands issues in the United States. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Pastoor: Thank you. Now, the Premier of Saskatchewan justified this $400,000 annual expense to the taxpayers of Saskatche- wan by saying that it was a better deal than any other province was getting for similar service. In light of this development does the minister still feel that Albertans are getting the best value for their tax dollars? Mr.

Stevens: Well, Mr. Speaker, I must say that the Premier of Saskatchewan said what I, too, would say if I were in his situation. There is no doubt that Ambassador Wilkins will do a very good job for them. I must say this to the hon. member: I’m absolutely satisfied that we have outstanding assistance in terms of Ambassador Blanchard and Mr. Fraser and the firms that they represent. The Speaker: The hon. member.

Alberta Hansard May 6, 2009992 Ms Pastoor: Thank you. Albertans have been told to do more with less. Can the minister tell me why the Alberta government isn’t operating in the same business mode? Would those contracts be reviewed? Mr. Stevens: Well, Mr. Speaker, the contracts that we’re talking about are one-year contracts. They started, as I r ecall, towards the end of March 2009. I’m sure that we will be reviewing those contracts as they expire sometime in terms of perhaps March 2010. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona, followed by the hon. Member for St. Albert.

H1N1 Influenza Virus Exposure (continued) Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Anxious parents across Edmonton have been asking their children all week if any of their classmates have suddenly been absent. This is b ecause they’re worried about the H1N1 flu infection and want to protect their children. I’m a parent of young children, as are many members of this House, and when there’s a chance that my kids have been exposed to a dangerous virus, I want to know the facts. To the minister of health: why are you denying parents the right to know whether their kids have been exposed to H1N1 in their school? Mr.

Liepert: I’d suggest that if the member wants to find out about issues at her school, she should call her school trustee. Ms Notley: Well, Mr. Speaker, school boards are actually looking to the chief medical officer of health for direction on this one. As a parent I know parents are regularly warned by schools of less serious public health concerns such as school-specific outbreaks of lice and chicken pox. To the same minister: if parents can be told about an outbreak of lice in their school, why can’t they be told about a serious incident like a severe H1N1 infection? Mr. Liepert: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the chief medical officer of health has been very clear. He said that we shouldn’t overr eact, that we shouldn’t be closing schools. In the case of when there is a situation with a student, it’s my understanding that the Department of Education does contact the school board. It’s the school board’s decision what information they want to hand out. Ms Notley: Well, Mr. Speaker, so far all we have is chaos. School boards are cancelling trips to unrelat ed destinations all over the world. Meanwhile, parents can’t be told if there’s an H1N1 case in their own school.

We need a clear policy that tells parents right away if a child in their school has H1N1. Why won’t the minister of health commit to a policy that publicly identifies schools where this flu virus occurs so that parents can decide how best to protect their children? Mr. Liepert: Well, I would suggest that the best way to protect your children is to tell them the truth and not overreact, Mr. Speaker. If there’s a situation that the school board deems serious enough that it would require a school closure, they will make that decision.

Clearly, to this stage that hasn’t been the case, so I think the member is worrying needlessly. 2:20 Seniors’ Benefit Program Mr. Allred: Mr. Speaker, yesterday evening I hosted a forum in my constituency on health care and seniors’ supports. I want to thank the hon. ministers of Health and Wellness and Seniors and Commu- nity Supports as well as my hon. colleague from Edmonton- Meadowlark for their participation. My questions today are to the Minister of Seniors and Community Supports. A number of seniors at the forum expressed great concern about lack of government support for vulnerable seniors.

Can the minister describe what she’s doing to support seniors in need? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, this government is committed to supporting low-income seniors who are most in need. The proof is in the 2009 budget, which included a $48.6 million increase to seniors’ programs. One of these programs is the Alberta seniors’ benefit, or ASB program, which provides a monthly income supplement to approximately 138,000 seniors. The maximum monthly benefits have increased, and we expect another 6,000 seniors or so to be eligible when the qualifying income thresholds are increased in July.

Our assistance to low- and moderate-income seniors also includes help with dental work. Mr. Allred: My first supplemental is to the same minister. Some of the people at the forum expressed doubts about the government’s commitment to providing care and housing options for aging Albertans. What is the minister doing to ensure that Albertans have the supports to spend their retirement years in their own homes and communities? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, seniors have told us that they want to live as independently as possible for as long as possible in their own homes in their own communities.

To help seniors do this, Alberta Health and Wellness and my ministry have developed a continuing care program to help seniors age in the right place. This includes looking at home-care services and how to provide supports to help seniors remain in their homes longer. It also includes increasing the number of supportive care facilities, and my budget this year has another $50 million to help increase those numbers, and that’s added onto the $119 million that I just a nnounced a month ago for over 3,000 new supportive living units. Mr. Allred: My final question is to the same minister.

One of the issues I spoke about last night is the need for individuals to prepare for their own retirements. Since there’s going to be a surge of baby boomers about to retire, what is the minister’s department doing to prepare for the major demographic shifts that are about to occur? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, Alberta’s population, like the rest of Canada’s and, indeed, like the rest of the world’s, is aging. Al- though nobody has found the fountain of youth yet, we are preparing for this demographic shift.

This preparation includes the Demo- graphic Planning Commission, which received over 10,000 survey responses on the Internet, and we spoke to over 100 stakeholder organizations. We are now combining the work of the commission with research and cross-ministry input to develop an aging popula- tion policy framework. This framework is intended to help govern- ment make decisions for Alberta’s seniors population. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Rutherford. Protection of Persons in Care Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There have been far too many cases of mistreatment and abuse of seniors in Alberta. Files on cases of abuse and mistreatment go back years, and many people

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 993 trying to help these seniors are running into dead end after dead end. Their concerns seem to go unheard. My questions are to the Minister of Seniors and Community Supports. How is the minister working with other groups to resolve these problems of mistreatment and abuse? When can seniors expect better protection from this government? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, this government has very good legislation called Protection for Persons in Care Act. Under this legislation we investigate every single complaint that comes forward about abuse in any kind of supportive living facility.

If the abuse is in a criminal form, those complaints will go to the police. We have inspections of facilities, and we have investigators going out and speaking to the people who are involved in the complaints of abuse. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Who is it that makes the decisions on whether a public inquiry goes forward on a case of abuse or mistreatment? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, we have a branch within our ministry that does investigate every complaint that comes forward. We have a director that decides in which direction an abuse complaint should head.

We get lots of complaints about the food, which is one of the most common complaints that we hear from our supportive living facilities. Those cases are not investigated, but we do work with the facility operators to encourage better preparation of food. More serious complaints are investigated thoroughly. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Pastoor: Thank you. To the same minister. One particular case where decisions were made against a senior’s wishes goes back over three years now with no action.

Why are cases like this one sitting for years without any public inquiry when it’s clear that there’s a problem that needs to be addressed to better protect our vulnerable seniors? This is only one case. Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, I’m not aware of the situation that the member is speaking of; however, I would like to be aware of the situation, and if there is a pr oblem, I would like to attend to it immediately. I would ask the member opposite to inform me of this situation so I can further investigate myself on why there is a holdup in taking action. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Rutherford, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview. Physician Supply Mr. Horne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Reports of a hiring freeze affecting specialists who have received offers of employment here in Alberta have been circulating and continue to gain momentum. In Edmonton, home to one of the largest academic health centres in North America, this is cause for serious concern. My question is for the Minister of Health and Wellness. Minister, for clarity and for the record, are these reports true or are they not? Mr. Liepert: Well, Mr.

Speaker, clearly, there’s been some attempt by certain people to distort the facts, let’s say, because what we’re talking about here, first of all, are academic specialists. They are not family doctors that are going to be locating elsewhere in the province. Just to clear up the record, I did speak with the CEO of Alberta Health Services, Dr.

Duckett, and he confirms the following: not only has Alberta Health Services honoured the contracts of 16 physicians that were already in place, but it is also honouring verbal agreements with 25 other physicians; five physician positions are being advertised, and another 42 offers are proceeding within the existing budgets. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Horne: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have only one supplemen- tary question for the minister.

Rumours have also been circulating, and reports in the media tell us that the incoming dean of the Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry at the University of Alberta would not have privileges with Alberta Health Services. Is this true or not, Mr. Minister? Mr. Liepert: Well, again, I don’t know who’s spreading these rumours, but I have some suspicions, Mr. Speaker. I would just confirm for the record that we welcome to our city the new dean of Medicine and Dentistry at the University of Alberta, Dr. Philip Baker, and he will certainly have all the privileges required at the Royal Alexandra hospital.

While I’m on my feet, I wish dean Dr. Tom Marrie the best of success in his endeavours in Maritime Canada. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay. Nuclear Power Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker. The public is increasingly skeptical about the government’s consultation on building a nuclear power plant in Alberta. Among other things the consultation workbook completely avoids mentioning the very real problems that are plaguing the construction of new power plants. My question is to the Minister of Energy.

Can the minister name a single nuclear power plant anywhere in North America or Europe under construc- tion today or any time in the last 30 years that’s on time or on budget? The Speaker: If that’s within government policy, go ahead. Mr. Knight: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. What I will tell the House and the people of the province of Alberta is that the government of Alberta is not constructing any type of nuclear facility anywhere. Dr. Taft: Well, Mr. Speaker, let’s pursue that line because I think that’s a promising line.

The nuclear lobby is aggressively pursuing $50 billion in government loan guarantees in the U.S. because without them nuclear power is not viable. To the Minister of Energy: will this minister rule out this government giving loan guarantees for developing nuclear power in Alberta? Can we just rule that out? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Knight: Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. The question, really, absolutely has no relevance to what’s happening in the province of Alberta.

We have not – not – given any loan guarantee to anybody to build any electrical generating facilities in the province of Alberta since I don’t know when. I can tell you that

Alberta Hansard May 6, 2009994 right now under the structure that we have in the province of Alberta, electrical generation is a stand-alone market facility. We have no nickel in it, and we do not intend to have any. 2:30 Dr. Taft: Okay. I’m glad there won’t be so much as a nickel of public money in there. To the same minister. Another way that nuclear power companies want to put their financial risk on the public back is to begin charging customers when construction begins on the plant rather than when power generation comes online. That means customers pay for nuclear power for years before it’s even generated.

Again to the Minister of Energy: will the minister rule out any option from this government that would require customers in Alberta to pay for nuclear power before it actually comes online? Mr. Knight: Mr. Speaker, it’s very obvious that the member opposite hasn’t spent one iota of time to actually take a look at the structure of generating in the province of Alberta. He wouldn’t ask a question like that if he had a little idea a bout what it is that we actually are doing in Alberta. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-McCall.

Seniors’ Community Centres Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My constituency, Calgary- Mackay, is a relatively new, younger constituency. That said, the seniors population in my constituency is growing, and they are looking for ways to stay active in their community. My questions are to the Minister of Seniors and Community Supports. Seniors’ centres are an important venue for seniors in our communities. What options are available to support seniors’ centres in Alberta? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr.

Speaker, there are hundreds of seniors’ community centres throughout Alberta, and they exist b ecause of community volunteers that have come together to ensure the establishment of these facilities. There are currently a number of sources of funding for seniors’ centres. I’m very proud that the province is able to support seniors’ programs through family and community support services, which is 80 per cent provincially funded.

There are also lottery-funded grant programs such as the community spirit program, the community facilities enhancement program, and the community initiatives program, and the federal government has the New Horizons for Seniors program, which provides grants of up to $25,000 . . . The Speaker: The hon. member. I’m sure we’ll get

chapter 2 in the next question. Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you. Can the hon. minister inform the Assembly if her department works with community organizations to provide services and information to seniors? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mrs. Jablonski: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I do have to put in

chapter 2, and that’s because this is a $25,000 grant that they’re currently taking proposals for until June 12. I want our seniors’ centres to know that. To go back to the supplemental question, we have eight regional seniors’ information services offices across Alberta helping seniors and their families access information on provincial programs and services. Staff from each of these offices are available to visit seniors’ centres in their area to provide information sessions on various topics. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you. My final question is to the same minister.

Are there avenues through her department for seniors to become aware of the services and programs available in their communities? Mrs. Jablonski: There are. Mr. Speaker, I just want you to know that seniors’ centres are very important to everyone in Alberta. They provide lots of opportunities for our seniors. I could further discuss this with our representative from Calgary-Mackay. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-McCall, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. High-speed Rail Link Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Transportation received a publicly funded report on high-speed rail in Alberta over a year ago. To date the public has seen or heard nothing from the government about that report. To the Minister of Transportation: why is the government refusing to release the report on high-speed rail? What have you got to hide, Mr. Minister? Mr. Ouellette: Well, Mr. Speaker, absolutely, I have nothing to hide. I will say that I agree: we’ve had the report for a long time. My department has been analyzing the report. I ask them every once in a while: what makes you guys so slow in there anyway?

They’re not coming back, but we are analyzing the report. As soon as we have real, real, true analysis in the proper form, we’ll be letting the hon. member know. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the minister should put the entire department on the report so we could speed things up. To the minister again: what is so controversial about this report that the government won’t release a single page of it even under a freedom of information request? Mr. Ouellette: I don’t know anything about the freedom of information request, Mr. Speaker.

That’s handled, as you know, by officials in the department. I don’t think there’s absolutely anything that could be hidden in there. It’s a report where we’re trying to find out what the actual ridership would be and if it would pay back investment if we built high-speed rail. There could be nothing to hide there. We’re just waiting to be able to make sure that we analyze it properly to release the proper information to the paying public. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the minister has been sitting on it for a year. It’s about time you should release it, Mr. Minister.

To the minister again. The minister has been sitting on this report for over a year: I repeat it again. Maybe he hasn’t even read it, maybe only once, twice, thrice. Give us a date. When will Alber- tans get the opportunity to see that report, Mr. Minister?

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 995 Mr. Ouellette: Mr. Speaker, I agree. I’m not the guy that’s analyzing the report. We have professionals in the department to do that work. I’ve never sat on the report either. I will say, though, that this is going to be a fairly complex report. This is really about: what will it do with the expa nded population that we have in Alberta? Will it take pressure off the busiest highway at times in Canada, let alone just western Canada? Will this help with lowering greenhouse gases? What expense will it be to do all that?

All of that is very complex, and it’s being analyzed. [interjections] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. Student Loans Mr. Elniski: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I feel a little bit like I drew the short straw on that one. Lately I’ve been receiving a lot of feedback from students regarding student loan eligibility for postsecondary education. My first question is to the Minister of Advanced Education and Technol- ogy. It’s my understanding that an unmarried student is allowed to earn up to $800 per month before it affects the size of their student loan.

However, for a married student their spouse’s income is included in the eligibility calculation, and they’re only allowed to earn a $200 exemption. Why are these program eligibility calcula- tions not the same? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Horner: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Absolutely, it’s this government’s intent to ensure that all students have an affordable and accessible framework. The part-time earning exemption of $800 per month applies to all students, both single and married.

Reducing spousal contributions is one of the initiatives that was identified in the affordability framework for consideration for budgets in the future. Certainly, in the big picture married students really only make up about 10 per cent of the total student numbers that are applying for student assistance. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Elniski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My only supplemental is to the same minister. What is the government doing to ensure that married students, who often have greater obligations such as mortgage debt, receive equitable treatment in the calculation of student loan eligibility?

Mr. Horner: We certainly recognize, Mr. Speaker, the obligations of married students and take into consideration that they have higher day-to-day costs, including mortgages in some cases. The standard monthly living allowance for married students with no children is $1,873 compared to the single student, who is eligible for up to $941. For married students with children an additional living allowance of $449 per month is provided for each child. As I mentioned in my previous response, support to married students is part of the ongoing analysis that we have within the affordability framework.

Hopefully, depending upon budget considerations, in the future we’ll be able to add to that wonderful package of items in student finance that does make this one of the most affordable places to take postsecondary education.

The Speaker: That was 102 questions and responses today, hon. members. 2:40 head: Statement by the Speaker Members Absenting Themselves The Speaker: Hon. members, yesterday in the House in the afternoon at the start of second reading debate on Bill 25, the Teachers’ Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2009, it was the decision of the House that advice should be sought from the Ethics Commis- sioner with respect to potential conflicts of interest among members in their participation on this particular bill, and the conclusion was that the chair should contact the Ethics Commissioner and seek advice from the Ethics Commissioner.

A few minutes ago I received such advice of the Ethics Commissioner, and I believe it’s of prudent nature and benefit that all members of the House hear this advice. I intend now to read the advice into the record. For the benefit of all members, it’s a letter dated May 6, 2009, addressed to me as Speaker of the Legislative Assembly. It arrived in my office at 1:47 this afternoon. It says: Dear Mr. Speaker: Re: General Advice pursuant to

section 44 of the Conflicts of Interest Act Re Bill 25, the Teachers’ Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2009 Thank you for bringing to my attention the debate which occurred in the Legislative Assembly on May 5 at Second Reading on Bill 25. I took note of your comments to all Members and the subsequent debate on the Bill. Although Standing Order 33(2) requires a Member to declare a pecuniary interest and withdraw before voting on a matter,

section 2(2) of the Conflicts of Interest Act goes further. It says:

(2) Where a matter for decision in which a Member has reasonable grounds to believ e that the Member, the Mem- ber’s minor or adult child or a person directly associated with the Member has a private interest is before a meeting of the Executive Council or a committee of the Executive Council or the Legislative Assembly or a committee appointed by resolution of the Legislative Assembly, the Member must, if present at the meeting, declare that interest and must with- draw from the meeting without voting on or participating in the consideration of the matter.

The letter goes on: It is my understanding that this Bill relates to the Memorandum of Agreement of November 2007 under which the Government of Alberta agreed to pay the teachers’ portion of the pre-1992 unfunded pension liability. As a result of this agreement, persons currently in the teaching profession will directly benefit as a result of reduced pension deductions from their indi vidual paycheques. It is my further understanding that Teachers’ Retirement Fund recipients will not be affected by this legislation in terms of an increase or decrease to their pension cheque.

Under the Conflicts of Interest Act, a “private interest” is not defined. The Act states what a “private interest” is not. It is not an interest in a matter that is of general application or one that affects a person as one of a broad class of the public.

Based on my preliminary review of the Bill, the Alberta Hansard excerpt from May 5 with respect to the Second Reading debate on the Bill, and the Conflicts of Interest Act, it is my advice that in certain circumstances, Members of the Legislative Assembly may have a private interest in Bill 25 and those Members would have to declare that interest and withdr aw from the proceedings without taking

part in or voting on the matter. I have considered the matter under three basic scenarios: a Member who has retired from the teaching profession; a Member who is on a leave of absence from a teaching position or who may or may not return to the teaching profession; and a Member who has a spouse, adult interdependent partner, or minor or adult child who is a teacher. 1. Members who have retired from teaching It is my advice that Members who have retired from the teaching profession – whether or not they are currently receiving

Alberta Hansard May 6, 2009996 a pension cheque – will not benefit from this legislation. It is my view that the general application exception applies since the pension plan itself affects all persons who have rights in that plan. The fact that the pension plan may be adjusted on an annual basis is also, in my opinion, a matter of general application. Members in this category may participate and vote on this matter. 2. Members who hold a teaching licence and who have not retired. There are subsections in here. (

a) If a Member holds a teaching licence but has resigned from their position with their school or school board, it is my advice that this is a matter of general application and those Members may participate in the debate. Since they are not currently contributing to the pension plan – whether or not they intend to return to teaching – there is no immediate direct financial benefit and it is my opinion that it is a matter of general application. Members in this category may participate and vote on this matter. (

b) If a Member is on a leave of absence but has not yet resigned from a teaching position, it is my opinion that there is a private interest since the Member is technically still an employee of that school or school board. Until such time as the Member is removed from the payroll, it is my opinion that the Member may benefit from this legislation. That Member would have a private interest and must declare that interest and withdraw from the proceedings without participating in the debate or voting on the matter. (

c) If a Member has a teaching licence and is still teaching in any capacity (since the Conflicts of Interest Act does not restrict Private Members from having outside employ- ment provided it does not conflict with their public responsibilities), that Member would have a private interest and must declare that interest and withdraw from the proceedings without par ticipating in the debate or voting on the matter. The third category of identification. 3.

Direct associates or children who are teachers If a Member’s spouse, adult interdependent partner, minor or adult child is a teacher, then it is my opinion that there is a private interest. While the benefits that will result from this legislation will apply to all persons making pension contribu- tions, it is a subset of the larg er population of those persons who have rights in the pension plan. Since there is an immedi- ate financial benefit to these persons, it is my view that a private interest exists.

Members who have direct associates or children currently in the teaching profession must declare that interest and withdraw from participating in the debate or voting on the matter. The Ethics Commissioner goes on. I have advised that a private interest exists, in part, because I am mindful of the

preamble to the Conflicts of Interest Act that sets a high standard of conduct for Members to ensure that the public can be confident that Members are acting in the public interest and not to further their private interests. This advice has been prepared on short notice and it may be that arguments could have been made that in all cases described above, the matter is not one of private interest but one of general applica- tion. I would recommend that in future, my Office be consulted prior to such legislation being introduced so that we can get a thorough briefing on the intent and effects of such legislation.

Yours very truly, Neil R. Wilkinson Ethics Commissioner It’s now in the Hansard, and in a few moments from now I’ll also table copies of this that the members will be able to obtain within minutes of the closing of the Routine. We’re now going to continue but in 30 seconds only. head: Members’ Statements (continued) The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Rutherford. Mental Health Services Mr. Horne: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The face of mental illness is different for everyone.

As a boy growing up in a small Ontario town home to a provincial psychiatric hospital, mental illness took the form of strange people wandering our downtown streets, carrying on conversations with invisible companions, and whom we were warned to avoid at all costs. These were, in fact, patients suffering from chronic mental illness, and for many the hospital had been their home for over 20 years. Early in my career I participated in the development of strategies to deinstitutionalize this same patient population.

Hundreds of psychiatric beds were closed, and psychosocial and vocational programs were established in central locations. We waited for the patients to magically show up, ready to be integrated into main- stream society. That was 25 years ago, Mr. Speaker, and fortunately things have changed. We have seen an extraordinary rise in patient and family support movements. Research has provided us with incredible advances in knowledge about the brain and new medications, and while there is still much more to be done, our mental health services, especially those provided in the community, have improved significantly.

Many of us take great pride in the fact that Alberta is now home to the Canadian Mental Health Commission. As former Senator Michael Kirby describes so well in his 2006 landmark report, mental health has come “out of the shadows at last.” Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, there is still one thing that hasn’t changed enough, and that is the enduring stigma which surrounds mental illness. Too few of us know its burden on our society, how to spot signs of mental illness among our family, friends, and colleagues, and how to appropriately intervene.

More to the point, we are afraid or somehow feel it inappropriate to talk about these issues. As a result, many, including our youth, do not seek help when they need it most. 2:50 Mr. Speaker, if there is one thing I observed during debates in this Assembly, it is that there is a deep and abiding concern on all sides of this House for the issue of mental health in our society. As we observe Mental Health Week 2009, it is my hope that members of the 27th Legislature will accept the challenge of defeating the stigma that plagues us. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake.

Shandy Wogan Ms Calahasen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The little school that could has produced one of many of my constituency’s great minds. I’m talking about a grade 9 student who attends the Red Earth Creek school, approximately 450 kilometres north of Edmonton. As little as 10 years ago this school did not exist. However, the parents and people of Red Earth moved mountains to get a sc hool for their children, and from the looks of it it’s paying off in Shandy Wogan. This grade 9 student is a brilliant, determined, and passionate young woman, which is evident in her r ecent accomplishments.

Shandy won the best-in-fair trophy, the award of excellence in health and science trophy, and a gold medal for the life sciences at the

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 997 Peace Country Regional Science Fair on March 19, the first for a student of Red Earth Creek. These awards were for the study that Shandy undertook studying the effects of energy drinks on teenagers. As a result of these honours, she has won the right to attend the Canada-wide Science Fair, held in Winnipeg May 9 to 17. Science is a passion for Shandy. This passion has been cultivated by her mother, who gives her every opportunity to expand her learning not only through school but through attending conferences and visiting museums.

In fact, last year Shandy participated in her first science fair, where she studied human memory by using a pig’s brain, dissecting it to identify the regions of the brain. Amazingly, she did not win that one, but that didn’t and won’t stop her. Shandy aspires to be a doctor, and I have no doubt that with the perseverance and hard work she has shown, she will achieve this dream. Shandy is one of the young, brilliant minds who are the future of our province, and I have no doubt that we will be hearing more about Shandy in the future.

All the best to you, Shandy, at the Canada-wide Science Fair in Winnipeg from May 9 to 17. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. Alberta Forest Week Mr. Elniski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our theme for Alberta Forest Week is Something to Celebrate. To celebrate this special week, we need to acknowledge the value we receive from our forests. They provide us with clean air and water, homes for fish and wildlife, abundant recreational opportunities, and community sustainability. Forests cover 60 per cent of the Alberta land mass that drapes across our province like a giant green shawl.

Forestry is the principal livelihood of approximately 50 communities in Alberta, employing 44,000 people and generating $10 billion in annual revenue. Healthy forests are the foundation of all the values we receive from our forests, whether it’s wildlife habitat or recreation or jobs. Alberta is home to some of the world’s best sustainable forest management practices. The Alberta government is committed to carefully managing Alberta’s forests for the widest possible range of values and for the greatest benefits to Albertans today and in the future. Our forests are sustainable.

The cut we allow does not exceed what the forest can grow each year. Alberta also invests in science and research to find better ways to manage our forests for maximum benefit. Mr. Speaker, our forests are renewable and will be an enduring symbol of our sustainable land legacy. Our forests will be a safe home for wildlife. Our practices will safeguard our water supplies, support our communities, offer many recreational opportunities, and will continue to be loved and enjoyed by our children and grandchil- dren.

Our sustainable forest management is a success story that provides economic, social, and ecological benefits to Albertans, Canadians, and the world. Alberta is determined to see our forests thrive on our landscapes through wise stewardship now and in the future. Thank you. head: Statement by the Speaker Television Camera on the Chamber Floor The Speaker: Hon. members, before we go on, I’ve received several notes from hon. members inquiring as to why there is a television camera on the floor of the Legislative Assembly.

We have a policy, that we’ve had in place for a great number of years now, that from time to time members of the media by way of electronic devices, television cameras, seek permission to be planted on the floors of the Legislative Assembly. We have a code of rules that applies to it, including a dress code, including what they can shoot and what they cannot shoot. Such a request was made today, to have a camera on the floor in anticipation of the debate with respect to Bill 44. The camera will only be operative when the debate on Bill 44 goes forward if it goes forward today.

There are very strict rules that the only person that the camera will look to is the pers on who is speaking. There is no general panning of the Assembly or anything else and no visual taken of anyone else. Should there be a violation of the rule that we have, I’ll tell you what happened a number of years ago when there was a violation of such a rule. Permission was sought by representatives of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Permission was granted. The rules were violated. I banned the CBC from this building for a year. They went to court; they lost. They went to court; they lost.

They decided it wasn’t worth it. Decisions of this Assembly are made by the members of this Assembly through the Speaker’s chair, so there’ll be no violation today, I’m sure. Everything will be done quite accordingly, and there’ll be no intimidation, harassment, or anything else associated with this. If members object to this, kindly convey your thoughts to me with respect to this matter, and we’ll review the policy that we have for the future, but I believe that everything will be quite fine. The camera will only be focused on the individual speaking. head: Tabling Returns and Reports The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Centre. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to table a copy of correspondence that I’ve r eceived in my office, which is a commentary from Leslie Carlyle on Bill 44 that notes that she felt very strongly that had she not been taught about human sexuality through the Edmonton public school board, she would not have known that she could escape a sexual abuser, and she feels very strongly that the government should consider that allowing

section 11.1 may prevent other children from finding out about the same thing and being able to protect themselves. Thank you very much. The Speaker: Are there others? Hon. members, I indicated earlier today that I’d received a letter from the office of the Ethics Commissioner with regard to general advice pursuant to

section 44 of the Conflicts of Interest Act regarding Bill 25, the Teachers’ Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2009. I’m tabling with the Assembly now the appropriate copies. If members wish to get a copy of the actual letter, they can do so; otherwise, it will be printed in Hansard for the benefit of all. head: Tablings to the Clerk The Clerk: I wish to advise the House that the following documents were deposited with the office of the Clerk. On behalf of the hon. Mr. Knight, Minister of Energy, responses to questions raised by Dr. Taft, the hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview; Mr. Mason, the hon.

Member for Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood; and Ms Blakeman, the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, on April 29, 2009, Department of Energy main estimates debate. On behalf of the hon. Mr. Liepert, Minister of Health and Wellness, responses to Written Question 12 and return to order of the Assembly MR1, both asked for by Mr. Mason on April 6, 2009.

Alberta Hansard May 6, 2009998 head: Orders of the Day head: Government Bills and Orders Committee of the Whole [Mr. Cao in the chair] The Chair: The Committee of the Whole shall now come to order. Bill 33 Fiscal Responsibility Act The Chair: Are there any comments, questions, or amendments offered with respect to this bill? The hon. Member for Edmonton- Gold Bar. Mr. MacDonald: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Bill 33 is a bill that I have been waiting for some time to get a few comments on the record about.

This was initially, I r ecall, intro- duced to the Assembly the same day we dealt with the budget, and it may have been overlooked. It certainly is a bill that is going to change how this government operates.

They have indicated, to my knowledge, that it is a bill that reflects the times, and we are not to worry about this in any way. 3:00 Now, when we look at Alberta’s fiscal framework and we look at what has gone on in the past, of course, we’ve had some rather different laws going back to 1993 a bout debt and deficits and the fiscal framework and the rules and the limitations the government places on itself for budgeting purposes. These restrictions and limitations are very similar to what one would compare to a teenager with an allowance.

Sometimes this government doesn’t know what to do with a lot of the extra money that they acquire. The hon. Member for West Yellowhead is grinning over there, but it’s not a grinning matter. It was only, Mr. Chairman, six months ago that the provincial finance minister was beaming that we were going to have this $8 billion to $12 billion surplus. The world changed rather quickly last fall, and the budget in this province does not reflect that change. But Bill 33 is certainly an interesting initiative. Now, Bill 33 has seen many, many different forms, Mr. Chairman.

Going back to 1993, it was the Deficit Elimination Act, then the Balanced Budget and Debt Retirement Act. It was revised again in 1999, and it b ecame the Fiscal Res ponsibility Act. This act, the Fiscal Responsibility Act, was substantially amended in 2003 based on recommendations of the financial management commission. There were a series of frameworks there. • Balanced budget requirements. • Prohibitions on debt, especially for operating purposes. • Mechanisms to deal with revenue volatility.

Examples include: budgeting based on 90% of forecast resource and corporate income tax revenue; using only $5.3 billion in resource revenue for budget purposes; establishing the Sustain- ability Fund. Another good idea from this side of the House. • Requiring an economic cushion or contingency allowance to be set aside. • Limiting use of in-year increases to budgeted revenue. • In-year limitations on spending increases. As I said earlier, the fiscal and economic situation during this budget year, according to the government, necessitates changes to the framework. Now, it goes on to say in the fiscal plan, Mr.

Chairman, that the framework in place in 2008-09 was mainly intended to provide limitations during times of revenue growth. It provided relief from the limitations when events o ccurred during the year, such as emergencies and disasters, or when revenue declined from the budget. The whole issue of emergencies and disasters is certainly an interesting one, and one would only have to look at the Alberta Gazette to see how frequently that line was used. Now, according to the government, the framework has become complex, requiring intricate transfers between funds, and has become less transparent.

I couldn’t agree with that statement any more than I already have. I’m pleased to see that this government recognizes that it has transparency issues. It’s not sincere, in my view, in its effort to address them, but at least it recognizes it’s got a problem. This new bill, Bill 33, or the latest version of this bill, provides for a much simpler fiscal framework, and according to the government, it contains limitations but enhances flexibility, the economic Slinky that it is. Dr. Taft: Economic Slinky? Mr.

MacDonald: It is an economic Slinky, this legislation, because of the flexibility that’s needed by this government at this time. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview is very interested about the economic Slinky that is this bill. It is the hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview who was one of many who alerted, Mr. Chairman, taxpayers in this province to the fact that this was a crazy-spending government. They weren’t prudent financially. They didn’t balance the spending with savings like they should have.

Now the only fortunate thing we have, of course, is the stability fund, which was an idea that the government adopted just in time, that cookie jar that is available to the hon. President of the Treasury Board during this very difficult economic period. When we look at this flexibility, we have to consider the past fiscal framework and what it did. Now, deficits are only permitted under the new Fiscal Responsibility Act if funds are available in the sustainability fund to offset them.

Under debt, according to the fiscal plan, the new Fiscal Responsibility Act maintains the require- ment that the debt retirement account has to be equal or be greater than any accumulated debt. There are two words in here that are very important, Mr. Chairman: as defined. We’re talking about accumulated debt as defined. This is where we get into the Slinky going down the spiral staircase. It never falls away or moves off the centre of that staircase as it goes around the corner because of the ability to draft legislation that only the President of the Treasury Board has.

This in combination with the requirement that deficits are only permitted if they can be funded from the sustainability fund means the government is not permitted to borrow money for operating purposes. According to the fiscal plan, the government can borrow only • for capital investment in government-owned assets; • to support capital projects that are owned by school boards, post-secondary institutions and health authorities. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that would certainly include the 3P projects.

The government can only borrow • as required by self-supporting corporations such as Agriculture Financial Services Corporation, Alberta Treasury Branches and Alberta Capital Finance Authority. I think to say that these corporations are self-supporting is a bit of a stretch. Of course, it was interesting that we dealt a little bit with this earlier, after question period, with the letter from the Ethics Commissioner.

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 999 • to pay back funds owed by the pre-1992 Teachers’ Pension Plan to the post-1992 Teachers’ Pension Plan. Now, we talk about the sustainability fund here and controls on in- year operating expenses and nonrenewable resource revenue and financial reporting standards. These proposals, as I understand it, concern budget limitations. As I understand it, the year-end annual report will continue to report in accordance with the Canadian generally accepted accounting principles for the public sector. The main differences in this are going to be pension liabilities and the SUCH sector.

With pension liabilities, according to what I’m reading in the budget documents, this bill will continue to exclude the change in unfunded pension liabilities of the government of Alberta from expense. The annual report will report any increases in pension liabilities as an expense. I find that quite interesting. 3:10 Now, the SUCH sector. That includes school s, universities, colleges, hospitals.

Similarly, this bill’s rules, as I understand it, do not account for the inclusion of Crown-controlled SUCH sector entities – school boards, universities, colleges, and health authorities – into the government reporting entity. The annual report currently reports the change in equity of the SUCH sector as a single revenue item, modified equity. Public sector accounting standards will require reporting, and it goes on. Whenever we’re discussing this, we need to have a look not only at the balance sheet of the province, the fiscal

summary. When we look at pension liabilities, if they are to be excluded under this bill, we have to look at what pension obligations were in 2008. They’re listed, Mr. Chairman, as a liability on the balance sheet. Pension obligations were $7.8 billion. This estimate, this budget year, 2010, they have climbed by over $3 billion to $10.9 billion, and in the next two years they are estimated to be over $12 billion. These are the pension obligations. Now, why would we be excluding them in this bill, Mr. Chair- man? I know there is a new provision in this bill, and that would be, if we go to the

definitions section, under 1(a)(i)(E): “any amounts raised for the purpose of paying to the post-1992 fund all or any portion of the amounts determined by the Minister of Finance and Enterprise to be owing in accordance with the Teachers’ Pension Plan Act.” This, according to my research, is a new tweak to the act, and that would, in the post-1992 fund, increase by $184 million. Now, other

definitions are similar to what was used under the old act because we’ve got to remember that this act, if it becomes law, is deemed to have come into force on April 1, 2009. That’s only one portion of the unfunded pension liability, but these liabilities are significant, and they’re adding up. I know that when I went through the annual report of the minister of finance, there were some significant changes in some of the numbers in the various pensions that report to the public through the hon. minister’s annual report. I don’t know if that’s the reason why there is this $3 billion increase or not.

Perhaps at some point in the debate we can have an answer provided by the ministers opposite. When we look also at debt servicing costs and we look at the fiscal plan tables, this is why we’ve got to be so careful with this bill. I’m not going to go into the Agriculture Financial Services Corporation’s debt servicing costs, but I am going to have a look at the ones under Education, and they’re listed here as financing costs for the Alberta schools alternative procurement, the P3s.

It’s interesting to note that the Minister of Education, the Minister of Infrastructure, and the entire government seem to be cooling off in their admiration for 3Ps. They never were a good deal. Never were a good deal. When you look at the business plan of, let’s choose for example Edmonton school district 7, the Edmonton public board, on their wish list they claim they can construct a school for $11 million. If you average out what’s going on with the 3Ps that were moved ahead last year, it’s over $33 million. I know it’s a longer period of time, but, wow, that’s quite a difference in unit cost.

I don’t think taxpayers in this case have been served by this fascination with 3Ps. Once again, it’s an issue of ideology over economic common sense. The financing costs for the Alberta schools alternative procurement 2010-11, the debt servicing costs, are $17 million. The fo llowing year, the target – and these are targets, Mr. Chairman – is $22 million, or $5 million more. In two years it’s $39 million in debt servicing costs. We look at debt servicing costs for Finance and Enterprise and general government. That’s a real broad category. That’s going up as well from $112 million to $170 million two years later.

This is according to the hon. minister’s own documents. Transportation: financing costs for government-owned capital plans. I thought at one time the government, with these 3P projects, was not to be involved in financing whatsoever, but here we find in the budget documents that there are financing costs. In the years that we know, for Education they’re increasing and also for Transportation. Now, in 2009-10 it is estimated that the financing costs for the 3Ps are $21 million. Two years later they’re going to double. The financing costs are going to be $40 million. With this bill I believe definition (

C) under 1(

a) provides the government the scope to handle this. Mr. Snelgrove: You’ve lost your audience. Mr. MacDonald: Never had them to start with, hon. member. Never had them to start with. Perhaps if the hon. members across the way were paying attention, we could save a few million dollars of the taxpayers’ money. This government, I’m telling you, hon. member, some of their spending habits . . . An Hon. Member: Are they a Slinky, too? Mr. MacDonald: Well, they’re not like an economic Slinky. I would compare them to the gentleman who was on cable television advertising those ShamWows.

I don’t know if ShamWows is the plural. I’m sure the Minister of Transportation, if he was interested, could moonlight at a home and garden show and make himself a very good living. I’m confident of that. He could sell ShamWow by the square metre. I bet he could sell 10 square metres per presenta- tion. People would be cutting them up and using them in their RVs and in their tents and to dry off their pets, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Brown: Do they work? Have you got one? Mr. MacDonald: No, I don’t have a ShamWow, but maybe he could sell me one. He’s very anxious to sell me on these 3P projects, and I’m not buying that.

No way. Also, with Bill 33 – and I was distracted there; I apologize, Mr. Chairman – one of the consequential amendments in here, where the Auditor General Act is amended by repealing

section . . . [Mr. MacDonald’s speaking time expired] Thank you. Mr. Snelgrove: I guess we’re not supposed to sleep in here unless we’re standing up and talking. You know, it’s interesting that the hon. member says, “the bill as I understand it” and then clearly goes on to show that he doesn’t understand it. He’s completely discon-

Alberta Hansard May 6, 20091000 nected with what this bill is actually trying to do and going to do and his revisionist theory of history and his gloom and doom into the future. Mr. Chairman, it’s really simple. The situation that countries or provinces, not just ours, find themselves in changes. It has and will probably continue to change.

I think we could all be pretty sure that this won’t be the last time that the province has to rethink and reassess its position on how it handles its money. 3:20 I think most people, certainly the people in this government, understand that sometime, maybe in a year, maybe in two years, maybe in three years – it may be longer – when the economic situation turns around, we will continue to lead and be one of the most stable and prosperous entities in the world. We will continue to use the tools that evolve in the communities of finance to invest and to make better use of our money.

This government took very bold steps a few decades ago. It, like many other provinces, had bought into the theory that deficit financing was somehow okay and that you could continue to spend your way into prosperity. By some extremely solid leadership at the time, Premier Klein and his government said: “Enough. Let’s take Alberta and put it on a footing where it is completely steering its own boat.

We don’t want to put ourselves in the same position that many provinces and countries have gotten themselves where they’ve loaned out all of the opportunities they’ve got for very little gain.” The chairman would remember that when we entered into debt reduction in this province, we had roughly the same debt as the province of British Columbia. Th is province took steps to quit spending more than it was taking in, to pay off the debt, to be very open about it. And you know what?

Albertans bought into it completely and said: you’re right; for this time in Alberta, for the future we need to make sure that Albertans control their finances. No other province took those st eps, and now British Columbia is looking at a 40-plus billion dollar debt. Are the people in British Columbia better off than we are? Is their standard of living im- proved because they’ve accumulated and continued to grow this much more debt? Are they better off because they’re paying $4 billion a year in interest?

Our good friends in Quebec: are they better off because they’re paying – well, we’re paying for them – just under $8 billion a year in interest payments? It’s okay, I guess, if you have no conscience and you want to continue to live off other people and you don’t intend to tackle your debt and your obligations and the country will continue to take from those who work hard and earn it and have the good fortune to be sitting on top of oil. But the attitude of Albertans has been far more important in how we’ve become prosperous than oil.

We could have taken the same step that many other parties or provinces would do – don’t worry about your debt – and spent our way into this glorious, wonderful position they found themselves in: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in debt. Not just the direct government debt. Many other provinces have burdened their Crown corporations with debt of untold, unaccountable billions of dollars. When the consolidated financial accounting comes into place, Mr. Chairman, it’s not this province that’s going to adopt or reject that thing.

We have been doing it for a year, and we are ready to go to consolidated accounting. Most other provinces are terrified of having to open their books, where it’s in the cupboard and where the cupboard is bare. When we bring our consolidated assets together, it’s going to show Albertans that we have accumulated even more with our other interests – more – probably assets to the tune in excess of $12 billion to $14 billion and a cash difference of probably $4 billion. Some other provinces, Mr. Chairman, are going to show enormous liabilities and very little assets.

The hon. member would like to suggest somehow that this is a Slinky or whatever his goofy term was around doing this. This is about saying, actually, for the situation we’re in today: “We have been prudent enough to put some money into a savings account. We have been wise enough to begin investing in infrastructure, which is as good an investment as you can get, the investment in our universities, our colleges, our roads, hospitals, and schools, to a rate that far exceeds any other state or province’s wildest dreams per capita.” We’ve been building dilig ently.

We’ve been taking the wealth that’s being generated from not only our oil and gas sector but from the other industries in Alberta that pay taxes, too, and we’ve been building an environment where business wants to come from around the world and locate, one, for stability and certainty because they know the business climate is fair; two, because they know that we’re not going to have the same issues as the other provinces, that one of these days they’re going to have to start paying their bills. It is no different, Mr.

Speaker, the overall debt, than is the completely irresponsible position that they would like to take, that there is no problem with health care spending. I think in our estimates the hon. leader of the third party said: “What’s the big deal? Just borrow some money this year. You don’t have to make tough choices.” Ms Evans: He didn’t say that. Mr. Snelgrove: Yes, he did. “Just borrow.” I said: “Well, that’s great. We’re borrowing for capital.” He’s borrowing for opera- tional, so you borrow this year to run your health system for another six months, seven months.

Well, then you would just borrow some more, and sooner or later, even if you have a most limited education and no calculator, you would figure out – maybe 20 years, maybe 30 years, maybe after I’m gone – that you have to quit spending more than you’re making. You can’t have one department in government spending at three or four times the rate of growth and not start to severely hamper all the other departments in the government in doing the very important work they do.

I had, I would look back and say, the unfortunate opportunity to ask the Saskatchewan Health minister of a few years ago when he thought Saskatchewan might think there was a problem in health care spending. When it became 60 per cent of their budget? When it became 70 per cent? When it gobbled 80 per cent of their budget? Or when, in fact, it was eating 110 per cent of their income and they were just borrowing? His answer was very NDP-like.

He said, “You so-and-so Albertans are all about money.” I said, “Thank goodness you’re not in finance.” But that’s the attitude of those who don’t want to see the truth or the reality that there is an accounting day sooner or later. So you can sit in here and you can make all the excuses why we don’t need to tackle these tough problems, why we should continue to indulge in whatever flight of fancy they would like to do, but sooner or later you’re either paying interest until you can no longer take that much out of your ongoing operational dollars to pay interest, or you quit building your infrastructure.

We would have an operating surplus if we didn’t build anything. Maybe that’s the approach they would like: quit building schools, quit building roads, quit building hospitals, balance your books, put everybody at home and create a social program for them so they don’t have to work. Federal governments did that for years in the Maritimes. What did that do? Quite honestly, sitting on the dock and waiting for the fish to come back wouldn’t work in Alberta. I can assure you, Mr.

May 6, 2009 Alberta Hansard 1001 Chairman, that in 200 or 300 or 400 years when the oil runs out in the north, Albertans won’t sit up there on the end of the oil rig waiting for the oil to come back. By then we will have gone on to far more current things. One thing about this government is that we’re already planning for the future because we think we’re living in the future here in Alberta.

Reinvesting in the nanotechnology sector, the genomics, realigning our research and our development departments, building one of the foremost health care systems probably in North America – in Canada, for sure – not only for the everyday patient but for research, sustainable research. One of the things we’re going to be able to sustain our health care on, Mr. Chairman, is that if you get a cure for cancer, you save a lot of money.

When you start to find out what’s causing MS, what’s causing all these horrible afflictions that take the people that we love, when we figure out how to fix that, we’re going to go a long ways to fixing health care. 3:30 Yes, it does take money sometimes to save money. I know that. Sometimes you have to change the way you allocate your dollars to get where you’re trying to go. What the Fiscal Responsibility Act worked for in the ’90s was a spending problem. It got put back in. With the opportunity, then, to create the heritage savings account, we would say: “Okay.

That’s for the future.” Very clearly we’ve said that that is the future and that that will stay there, and when we’re back in a position to continue to invest in not only that but the other incredibly important endowments that we’ve got, when we’re ready to say that our infrastructure spending is at an appropriate amount and we’ve caught up on the backlog of some of the mainte- nance, then we’ll be better situated than any other country you can possibly think of that has the standard of compassion and the standard of living that we have here in Alberta. You know, Mr.

Chairman, the group of interns I introduced in here before question period very much resemble this caucus. They are from all over the world – one from Germany, from all over Canada – very, very ethnically diverse, very bright ambitious children, young men and women, wanting to come to Alberta because they see it as still the land of opportunity. It’s a little frustrating. When the sky finally falls for those over there and they’ll have their happy dance in the rotunda, the sky will land on one of the most prosperous, well-planned-out, well-thought- out governments in the country.

It will land on a health care system that’s second to none. The sky is going to fall on an education system that is teaching students far ahead of most everywhere else. It’s going to land on a diversified and prosperous agricultural sector and an energy sector that’s not only meeting or exceeding all the environmental challenges that are thrown at us but leading in it. We will be the province that gets to sustainable energy. It won’t be the ones that are down there clamouring for closing the oil sands. It will be the wealth the oil sands generate s that allows us to reinvest in more experiments.

It will be the clean coal industry that reinvests. You can shut them all. You can pretend it’s over. “Alberta was here once. We don’t know what happened to it, but when the sky fell on us, it was so cloudy that we wandered aimlessly over to Saskatchewan, then maybe into Manitoba to find the despair that we so love.” That’s okay, and I’ll give them a ride to the border. I’m happy to.

You know, they won’t know what they’ve left, but they’ll know when they get where they’re going what the people of Alberta have long known, that they’ve been governed by a party that has adapted and evolved over time and continues to meet and exceed what the people of Alberta believe their province is able to do. This is a change, yes. It’s a change that says that we are in the middle of an economic situation that we do not control, but we can control our spending.

We can start to put forward a very real understanding for the people of Alberta so that they, too, can see where this government is going to be in two, three, and four years and on. No other province publishes a second-year budget. Ours is a three-year budget, Mr. Chairman, and it shows people exactly where we are going. One of the CEOs of Marathon Oil that I met before Christmas said that in their business sometimes you’ve got to budget for the worst and hope for the best. Mr. Chairman, that’s what we have to do. We have to know it can stay worse for quite some time.

It can get worse than it is now, and it can get better quicker than we know. The one thing that I know is that the people who really, really are able to tell us why it didn’t happen aren’t really able to tell us right now when it’s going to happen. The opposition put it up and say: well, if oil is here, this is what we’d do. Magically, they never have to worry about that. In the same day, Mr. Chairman, sometimes in the same question, they’re going to save more or they’re going to spend more. I don’t know. There’s only one dollar. It’s divided up very clearly in our budget where the priorities that we see are.

Our priorities have been put on health, education, and our seniors and on continuing to build the infrastructure that enables industry to prosper and want to locate here. They can take this bill, Mr. Chairman, and they can make it out to be whatever bogeyman, whatever Slinky toy they want it to be. The fact of the matter is that we were prudent enough to establish a capital fund, a sustainability fund, a fund to go forward with carbon capture and sequestration, and several other saving things that are enormously important to Albertans.

Now we’re saying: “We told you when we put this in that it was for a rainy day. We hoped it would never come.” I admit that a year ago at this time I did not expect to be back here a year later saying that things changed. They did. Thank goodness our Premier and the finance minister had the foresight to say: we’d better put a little in the cookie jar because we don’t want to touch the heritage fund. This bill just simply says that we put it there for a reason. Our bookkeeping, our accounting systems are different. If we have to acknowledge it differently, we will.

We have never tried to stay away from the consolidated financial accounting. The Auditor General has consistently and for quite some time given this province a very unqualified financial statement and, as a matter of fact, often uses the Alberta govern- ment’s accounting practices as an example to the rest of Canada. We have nothing to hide. We are proud Albertans. We are proud of what has happened in the past. We know that with what we’ve done, we have a solid future.

They can make whatever analogies or allegations they want to about what this bill means, but what it means for my kids and for me is a smarter, stronger future far before anyone else will come out of this downturn, Mr. Chairman. The Chair: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciated the comments from the Member for Vermilion-Lloydminster, the President of the Treasury Board. It’s good to have some passionate debate in here.

He made a very strong case against debt in the first several minutes of his comments, laying the groundwork, in his mind, but in some ways also laying the case against the very piece of legislation we’ve got in here. Debt is not always evil. We understand that. In fact, the aggres- sive, over-the-top campaign to pay off the debt in the last 15 years I think has had a lot of negative consequences, as I said yesterday. Now we’re listening to the Member for Vermilion-Lloydminster

Alberta Hansard May 6, 20091002 change the government’s policy and as President of the Treasury Board even steer the government’s policy on this. It makes me wonder what his pred ecessor the former Member for Vermilion- Lloydminster, Dr. Steve West, would say and how he might weigh in on this particular bill. [interjections] Not surprisingly, I’m getting comments that he said: don’t listen to the opposition. I guess that was taken to heart, wasn’t it? I want to address a couple of things that were said in debate on this bill yesterday.

One was a comment from the Member for Peace River talking about hypocrisy on our side. He couldn’t believe the hypocrisy on our side in sometimes arguing for spending, sometimes arguing for savings, cuts, and that sort of thing. I think the President of the Treasury Board holds the same position. I think it’s important to put some context around that. What we have in Alberta are easily the most dramatic swings in public expenditures of any provincial government in the country. In 1986, ’87, ’88, in fact all through the 1980s Alberta was the highest spending province per person in the country.

We were spending 20, 25 per cent higher than the average, and it was not sustainable. What we had, then, by the middle ’90s after this bloodbath of government cuts was the lowest spending government per capita in the country, and that wasn’t sustainable either. We went from the highest spenders in the mid-80s to the lowest spenders in the mid- 90s. On the way down all kinds of people kept saying: “Stop the cuts. Stop the cuts

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20090506
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L27 S2 20090506 1330 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c0567eff8cb6d25a15c41df9c11e8f2dfa5e23e8

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