Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 5 December 2002 (44th General Assembly, 4th Session, Vol. XLIV No. 41)
2002-12-05
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
December 5, 2002 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 41
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the Baccalieu
Trail Heritage Corporation on the launch of a new Web site celebrating the rich
history of the Baccalieu Trail.
The Web site, located at the URL, collections.ic.gc.ca/baccalieutrail was
supported with a $14,400 contribution from Industry Canada and funded through
the federal government's Youth Employment Strategy Initiative.
Mr. Speaker, visitors to the Web site, which was designed by two youth
interns under the guidance of the Baccalieu Trail Heritage Corporation, can now
access the unique heritage resources that are presented on the Baccalieu Trail
anywhere they can get the Internet, including viewing of artifacts from
excavations along with detailed information about the communities in the area.
Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the Baccalieu Trail Heritage Corporation who has
partnered with Industry Canada and the Mariner Resources Opportunities network
in getting this Web site online and I urge all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians
not only to surf the Internet but especially my fellow colleagues across the
way, come visit the Baccalieu Trail and experience the unique history in that
area.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a particularly pleasant task today. There is a young gentleman out
there who is celebrating his ninety-second birthday. This young man does his own
cooking, makes a mean batch of partridgeberry and apple jam, still dances and
plays cards a couple of times a week. He also volunteers a couple of times a
week at St Vincent De Paul Society. Actually, for his volunteerism over the
years, he recently received the Queen's Jubilee Medal.
It is my pleasure today to say Happy Birthday to Mr. Jim Ridgley, my dad.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Persalvic Elementary School in Victoria, and St. Catherine's
Academy, Mount Carmel, are each to receive new computers for their efforts in
the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board's, (MMSB) annual school recycling
contest.
This year marks the fifth year for the school recycling contest. It was
designed to encourage recycling within all provincial schools, and this year
there are 295 schools participating in the Province wide recycling contest.
Computers, valued at $1,500 each, will be the prizes for the school who recycles
the most this year
Launched on September 1, this years contest will continue until June 30,
2003, and will see schools doubling their refund on all beverage containers
recycled. To help with the recycling efforts, every school that is involved in
the contest has been supplied with recycling bins and bags, a recycling video
and educational promotional materials.
Mr. Speaker, I would like the hon. members of this House to join with me and
congratulate the Persalvic Elementary School in Victoria, and St. Catherine's
Academy, in Mt. Carmel for already showing good recycling habits, and for both
receiving the first of ten computers that will be awarded in this years contest.
Also, I would like to congratulate the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board for
their innovative idea in creating such an important program that benefits both
the environment and the schools participating in the contest.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. H. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure for me to extend
congratulations to a good friend, Rev. Dr. Hector Swain, on his being named as a
recipient of the Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal.
Rev. Swain received his medal in a ceremony at First United Church in Mount
Pearl on Sunday, December 1. My good friend, the Member of Parliament for St.
John's West, Loyola Hearn, was on hand to make the presentation.
Rev. Dr. Swain is a noted researcher, teacher, administrator, clergy,
community volunteer and author. He is also a Lieutenant-Commander in the
Canadian Navy and serves currently as Chaplain to Branch 36 of the Royal
Canadian Legion in Mount Pearl.
His latest book entitled, The Unfolding Dream is a history of VOWR and
its radio ministry to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
As Ministry Emeritus of First United Church in Mount Pearl, Rev. Swain is not
only a loved and distinguished member of the congregation but also one who
contributes countless hours of volunteer time visiting seniors and others in a
very active outreach ministry.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure all members of the House will join me in extending
congratulations and best wishes to Rev. Dr. Hector Swain.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It gives me great pleasure today to rise in this House to congratulate the
567 Random Squadron Royal Canadian Air Cadets on the occasion of their 50 th
anniversary.
The Random 567 Squadron are very outgoing. They are involved in numerous
activities such as public speaking, air-rifle competitions and various community
events. This year alone, they have raised in excess of $2,000 for the Children's
Wish Foundation.
Mr. Speaker, for the first twenty years, the Air Cadet Movement had all male
membership. In 1974, Jackie Vokey was one of the first females to enrol in that
organization. Jackie is now the Commanding Officer of the Random 567 Squadron
and leads over seventy cadets with almost half of its membership being female.
The Royal Canadian Air Cadets offer many opportunities to young people, it
gives them a sense of community, a chance to help others as well as learning
life skills that will benefit them their entire lives. They enjoy many fun
activities and are all given the opportunity to travel.
Mr. Speaker, many of the former members of the Random 567 Squadron have gone
on to pursue careers in the Armed Forces and as adults they have expressed their
appreciation for the opportunities they have had due to their involvement in the
Air Cadet Movement.
I would ask all of the members in this House to join with me in
congratulating the Random 567 Squadron on fifty years of a very successful
contribution to the development of the young people in the general Clarenville
area.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell
Island.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay recognition to the
Newfoundland Symphony Youth Choir who, on October 10, 2002, performed for Her
Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, in Toronto during the Royal Golden Jubilee Gala, a
celebration of Her Majesty's fifty years on the throne.
As part of the royal visit to this country, the Queen attended a Gala
Performance at the Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto that was hosted by the Prime
Minister. The Newfoundland Symphony Youth Choir, which is composed of
fifty-seven singers from the St. John's region, was contacted by the Prime
Minister's office last summer and asked to preform, along with a select number
of renowned performers and groups from across the country.
The Choir, which was founded in 1992 by Susan Knight, is a community-based
cultural organization with Ki Adams as the Associate Conductor and Accompanist.
At the heart of the group's vision is the valuing, promoting, and transmitting
of Newfoundland and Labrador's distinctive and rich culture.
These young people have attained a remarkable level of professionalism and
have been highly acclaimed by both national and international audiences. The
group has been the recipient of numerous awards and has to date recorded some
four albums.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the House to join with me in acknowledging
the accomplishments of the Newfoundland Youth Symphony Choir and congratulating
the group for its recent invitation to perform at the American Choral Directors
Association's Biennial National Convention to be held in New York City in
February, 2003. This is quite an honour and, as a Newfoundland Choir, they will
be one of very few and select non-American guest choirs at the event.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. NOEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to remind members of this hon. House that this week, December 1
to December 7, is National Safe Driving Week. National Safe Driving Week draws
our attention to the need for safe driving all year round. We must drive safety
if we are to save lives, minimize injuries and repair costs, and save money on
insurance premiums.
Mr. Speaker, accidents are more costly than ever. Claims for injuries and
repairs are causing dramatic increases in insurances rates. Our government is
taking many initiatives to help make driving as safe and affordable as possible.
We have a number of related bills now before this House.
Most drivers are responsible, but we all have lapses. As drivers, we have to
do all we can to ensure our vehicles are well maintained, and we have to
concentrate on driving. There are too many activities which take our mind away
from this demanding task. It is common to see drivers on cellphones, dogs
roaming freely in moving vehicles, persons drinking beverages and eating food
while driving, and drivers adjusting radios, stereos and CD players. We all have
to make a determined effort to become better and more attentive drivers.
Government must do all it can to help inform and educate drivers and make our
roads and regulations as conducive to safety as possible. The actions we are
taking in this House will help. We have given second reading to bills which call
for a ban on the use of hand-held cellphones by drivers while driving, increased
penalties for impaired driving, and vehicle seizure and impoundment.
I have also given notice that I intend to seek a variety of additional
legislative amendments related to the operations of the insurance industry.
As well, we have given second reading to a bill which calls for the
appointment of a consumer advocate to ensure public interests are properly
represented at automobile insurance rate hearings before the Public Utilities
Board.
We must continue to do all we can to make driving safer and reduce the cost
of accidents and insurance premiums.
Mr. Speaker, I wish everyone a safe and happy holiday season. I encourage
members and all motorists to drive defensively, keep their hands on the wheel,
their eyes on the road, and their minds on driving.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for a copy of his press release in advance, his
statement. I agree that there are a couple of good things I would like to point
out in this: the fact that the cellphone ban is coming in, with hand-held. I
believe that is a very good thing and it is moving through the system.
The other thing is the increase in penalties for drinking and driving, which
is another very good thing that is happening in our society as well. I think
December 1 to 7 is a very good time for National Safe Driving Week because it is
a week, I suppose, before the holiday season so it is a good time to remind us
all that it is very good.
I suppose the other side of it is what is on the minds of most people out
there, which is the condition of our roads, which is something we do have
control of, and that is if we have 100 per cent salt or 75/25 or 50/50. I think
that is on the minds of everybody out there today as well.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. YOUNG: With that, I would also like to wish everybody a happy holiday
season and a safe one as well.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement, but I want to say
to the minister that every week should be safe driving week.
With safe driving, Mr. Speaker, there are two basic fundamentals that are
important to safe driving. One is a safe vehicle; the other is safe roads. This
government has failed in both areas by taking a backward step of removing the
necessity of vehicle inspections after a certain age, which was certainly a
backward step towards this, and road conditions. I will not say to this
minister, but I will say to the Minister of Transportation, that the roads in
Labrador contribute a lot to the unsafe accidents that are happening in our area
of the Province, and until he does something about the roads there we can be as
safe as we like, unless he does something to improve these conditions -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: Just to finish. Unless the minister takes action there we
are still going to continue to have accidents that are not going to be
attributable to peoples' fault.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to mark December 6 as the National Day of
Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women. Established in 1991 by the
Parliament of Canada, this day stems from the sad anniversary of the death of
fourteen young women who were tragically killed on December 6, 1989 and L'Ecole
Polytechnique in Montreal.
Mr. Speaker, these young women in Montreal were victims of violence because
of their gender and because they studied engineering, a field traditionally
dominated by men. The Montreal massacre was
an act of violence directed
specifically and deliberately against women because they were women.
Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker, the 13 th anniversary of their death, is a
day which is marked across Canada as a time to remember and recommit ourselves
and our resources to ending violence against women. As a memorial to these
women, and to all the women who have lost their lives through violence, the
flags outside Confederation Building will be flown at half mast.
This day, Mr. Speaker, represents a time to pause and reflect on violence
against women and girls in our society. The Violence Prevention Initiative is
one avenue through which government, communities and anti-violence organizations
are working together on issues of violence against women, as well as other
victimized groups. This partnership is important because we all need to be
involved in efforts to prevent violence and provide support to victims.
This past Tuesday, the federal-provincial territorial Ministers Responsible
for the Status of Women released a document Assessing Violence Against Women:
A Statistical Profile . It provides information on the prevalence and
severity of violence against women. While there has been much work and many
accomplishments by individuals, women's groups, communities and government in
addressing violence against women, the statistics in this document indicate
there is still much work to be done.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members here today to join with me in wearing a purple
ribbon to remember the fourteen women from the Montreal massacre and other women
and girls who are victims of violence in this Province, across Canada and,
indeed, globally. Together with the people of Newfoundland and Labrador we need
to continue to work towards ending violence against women.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for providing me with a copy of her statement in
advance.
I rise today in the House of Assembly as we commemorate the sad anniversary
of the Montreal massacre which took place thirteen years ago.
The minister said in her statement, "...there is still much work to be
done." I say to the minister, less than a week ago a shelter for abused
women in Happy Valley-Goose Bay closed. This is a crisis situation. The
government knew about it and have done nothing to intervene.
The Minister of Health and Community Services says the women are being put up
in hotels, and social workers are making house calls. Do you really think that
the women are secure in a situation like this? The vulnerability that the women
in Happy Valley-Goose Bay region now find themselves is not uncommon in many
areas of our Province where there are no shelters and where police forces have
too few resources to enforce peace bonds and adequately protect women and their
children from violence. That is something we should take to heart as we prepare
to mark the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.
In the thirteen years since that massacre there have been many women murdered
and maimed, many more than the fourteen women who were murdered that day.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MS S. OSBORNE: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MS S. OSBORNE: That is why, Mr. Speaker, the closure -
MS KELLY: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.
MS KELLY: It is extremely difficult to stand here today but (inaudible)
does not need to be (inaudible). The decision of the board (inaudible) the
internal board have difficulty. The Department of Health, the Women's Policy
Office, Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs have all worked very hard to try and
ensure that this did not happen. It has, and we are working very hard to make
sure this house is opened as quickly as possible. It had nothing to do with
finances, all to do now with helping the board to get going again.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Does it make the women in the hotels feel anymore secure?
Because there have been so many women killed in the interim, that is why the
closure of the shelter in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. It is not a mere inconvenience
to the women in that area who live in fear of violence.
Mr. Speaker, I would like now to read a quote from a participant in a recent
Women's History Month Contest sponsored by the Advisory Council on the Status
of Women. The quote is, "Thinking about December 6 th makes me
very, very sad: this is the date on which one man shot and killed female
students the Polytechnic in Montreal - simply because they were women. I
remember his name - but not the names of the young women, which is the opposite
of what it should be."
For that reason, Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the indulgence of the
House to once again read the names of the fourteen victims: Genvieve Bergeron,
who was twenty-one; Helene Colgan, who was twenty-three; Nathalie Croteau, who
was twenty-three; Barbara Daigneault, who was twenty-two; Anne-Marie Edward, who
was twenty-one; Maud Haviernick, who was twenty-nine; Barbara Maria Klucznick,
who was twenty-one; Maryse Laganiere, who was twenty-five; Maryse Leclair, who
was twenty-three; Anne-Marie Lemay, who was twenty-two; Sonia Pelletier, who was
twenty-eight - Sonia was to graduate on December 7, 1989, the day after the
massacre - Michele Richard, who was twenty-one; Annie St. Arneault, who was
twenty-three; and Annie Turcotte, who was twenty-one.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This is indeed a sad anniversary of a tragedy fourteen years ago at the
Polytechnique. I think a couple of years ago when this statement was brought
forward I mentioned the fact that I knew a young lady who was attending the
Polytechnique when this took place. She was not there on that particular day
because she was sick, but sadly, Mr. Speaker, it was not that much later, a few
years later, I attended her funeral in Seven Islands where she was killed in an
industrial accident.
This does mark a tragedy, Mr. Speaker. I think the symptoms go a lot further
than this. If we look at our society in general, and we look at the wages that
women make today in this country -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: If we look at the wages that women in this country are paid
today, in comparison to men, and if we look at the situation in Vancouver that
is taking place as we speak, what is unfolding there in terms of the prostitutes
who have been murdered - again, it is specifically targeted towards women.
If we look around this Province, Mr. Speaker, we see that the number of women
and children who are accessing shelters in this Province has been steadily
increasing since 1994. That does not take into account the number of women who
are abused and do not have any shelters to go to. It does not take into account
the women who are abused and have the ability to find other accommodations
rather than go to the shelters. This is a very serious issue, Mr. Speaker, one
that needs to be continuously worked on, and one that needs our full attention.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, today I am pleased to announce a grant of $279,000 under the
Newfoundland and Labrador Waste Management Trust Fund to the Central
Newfoundland Solid Waste Management Committee.
This waste management committee, which represents108 communities, has
received funding from the trust fund to conduct phase two of their regional
waste management study. This is the final phase of the project and encompasses
the investigation of landfill alternatives, transfer station options, materials
recycling and composting facility alternatives. The study also includes the
development of a conceptual design for a regional landfill site and the
close-out requirements for all existing sites in the region.
Mr. Speaker, phase two of this study continues the work conducted last year
by the Central Newfoundland Solid Waste Management Committee. In 2001, with a
$72,000 grant from the Waste Management Trust Fund, the committee reviewed and
evaluated the solid waste management needs, including recycling programs, of the
Central Newfoundland region.
Over the past three years, the trust fund has provided assistance to
community groups, municipalities, schools and businesses to aid in the
development and implementation of waste management initiatives in the Province.
Since the Newfoundland and Labrador Waste Management Trust Fund was
established in 1999, government has approved 278 applications and over $7
million in contributions.
Mr. Speaker, this funding has been disbursed to 285 schools, more than 155
municipalities, 45 environmental and community groups, and several businesses
and school districts.
Mr. Speaker, government is committed to addressing our current waste
management situation with long-term solutions, thereby ensuring the protection
of our environment for the enjoyment of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians for
generations to come.
Government's Waste Management Strategy, released in April of this year, is
designed to ensure the planning and development of waste management strategies
are done by the people in the regions. The partnering of communities will ensure
strategies developed meet the needs of the people. We also want to thank the
Federation of Municipalities for their excellent participation in this
initiative.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The waste management study and Waste Management Strategy, I say to the
minister, is an excellent idea, and it should be funded. Most of the initiatives
that have been funded by the $7 million - approved and funded - are good ideas.
Mr. Speaker, it is not good enough to start a program and that is it, and
leave it at that. The Beverage Recycling Program has not gotten the numbers up
nearly to where the minister and the former minister predicted they would be.
Yet, they continue taking money out of the Beverage Recycling Program to fund
other programs. How can it be a success, Mr. Speaker, when you are raiding that
fund, creating a tax out of the money that consumers are paying on the beverage
containers they are purchasing, without any initiatives put back into the
program to increase the number of beverage containers that are being recycled?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, that is why, on this side of the House -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. T. OSBORNE: - we are serious about recycling and we will follow it
through - not a half job.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
While we support the work of the Central Newfoundland Solid Waste Management
Committee, it has to be recognized that we in this Province are very far behind
when it comes to ensuring that each and every community in our Province has a
good solid recycling program, a good solid waste management program. While this
might help in a particular circumstance, it is time that this government started
setting standards and trying to catch up to where our fellow provinces, like
Nova Scotia, are in ensuring the amount of waste going into landfills is reduced
and the amount of recycling is increased.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you very much for the applause.
Mr. Speaker, I rise to invite hon. members to the annual Christmas Lights
Across Canada Tree Lighting Ceremony, which will take place today, Thursday,
December 5, in front of the East Block of the Confederation Building.
This will be the Province's sixteenth year participating in this national
ceremony, and once again we join with our nation's capital as well as other
provincial and territorial capitals, in a show of unity during this Christmas
season.
Mr. Speaker, this year we are thrilled to have local talent Sheila Williams
acting as the master of ceremonies for this event, and we will enjoy
entertainment from the Vanier Elementary School Choir and the Salvation Army St.
John's Citadel Band.
The event starts at 6:15 p.m. in the East Block of Confederation Building,
and at 6:45 p.m. Premier Grimes will turn on the switch that will illuminate the
60,000 lights found on the trees in front of the building and along the parkway.
Mr. Speaker, participating again with Christmas Lights Across Canada are the
College of the North Atlantic, Memorial University of Newfoundland, Heritage
Canada at Signal Hill, the Health Sciences Centre, and we welcome CBC, who will
be displaying lights this year in conjunction with our ceremony.
Mr. Speaker, this event promises to be a good time for all, and I invite hon.
members to join us in front of the East Block at 6:15 this evening.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We, on this side of the House, would encourage as many people as possible to
come out to the annual Christmas Lights Across Canada Tree Lighting Ceremony.
Mr. Speaker, this is the sixteenth anniversary of us participating in such an
event and we encourage the people to come out; bring their children out. It is a
good way to kick off the Christmas season.
Now, when it is lit up each year, we see from the College of the North
Atlantic to the Health Sciences, it is really quite nice to look at. It is
beautiful, actually, but I have the same concern of fear, Mr. Speaker, that I
had this time last year, that the planes flying in over do not mistake it for
the runway; other than that, it is a very beautiful thing to look at.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We, too, would encourage people to join in the kickoff of the Christmas
season, but I cannot help thinking, Mr. Speaker, in this year of Kyoto, that the
60,000 lights that we are going to be turning on tonight, we are actually
burning Bunker C oil in Holyrood to produce the light. We should be working on
finding ways of getting natural gas ashore so that we can turn those lights on
cheaper, and cleaner lights.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARRIS: There would be cleaner lights and brighter lights, Mr.
Speaker, if we had that!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions this afternoon are for the hon. the Premier.
Mr. Speaker, over two weeks ago the Premier suggested that a deal to develop
the Lower Churchill was virtually complete and imminent. In fact, detailed
documentation was presented to the Board of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro for
their approval. Shortly afterwards, Peter Penashue says a land claims agreement
with the Premier has been negotiated, to which the Premier said: No, it is not.
On Monday of this week, the Minister of Mines and Energy said there is no deal
and confirms that negotiators have stood down. Yesterday, the Premier indicated
that this government, his government, is still moving forward and is close to a
deal with Quebec in many, many ways.
Mr. Speaker, despite his comments yesterday, would the Premier confirm the
national television news story last night from the Government of Quebec that
negotiations between that province and our Province have been placed on hold as
a result of opposition to the deal?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Maybe the Leader of the Opposition might like to tell the people of the
Province if he would be happy or sad if that was the case.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, in that story, which was released by Reuters
news agency yesterday, the secretary for Quebec Premier, Bernard Landry, said -
and I quote him - the project is now on hold because of growing opposition in
Newfoundland. They are prevaricating. Now the word prevaricating is a word that
I did not know the meaning of. So, I went to the Oxford dictionary, Mr. Speaker
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. WILLIAMS: The word prevaricating, Mr. Speaker, means to speak or act
evasively or misleadingly, according to the dictionary.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now, he is on a supplementary, to get to his question.
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, my question for the Premier is: Would the
Premier now acknowledge that not only does the Opposition think that the
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is misleading the people but so does the
Government of Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I don't think there is anyone in this Province fooled by
anything other than that they do know, for a fact, that the greatest wish of the
Leader of the Opposition and the party that he leads is that there not be a deal
on the Lower Churchill. That is the absolute greatest wish.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, we have made it perfectly clear, from day
one, in this Province, that we are committed to trying to find a way to move
forward in the best interests of Newfoundland and Labrador. We will not be
talked into a debate about partial truths, untruths, misinformation, that if we
have an arrangement and a deal to talk about, if we finalize a negotiation, we
have committed, as we always have, and as we did with Voisey's Bay, to release
all of the details, all of the information to everybody in the Province, have a
debate in this Legislature and have a free vote. That is the stance and the
position of this particular government, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the matter is,
we have not concluded our negotiations so we are not in a position to do that
today.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: I wonder if the hon. member would just allow me the
opportunity to welcome to the Speaker's gallery today a former member of the
House of Assembly for Port de Grave, and currently the Member of Parliament for
Bonavista-Trinity-Conception, Mr. John Efford, and his wife, Madonna.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, our greatest wish is not to sign the deal that
that desperate Premier is prepared to sign.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I guess the Premier is saying that the
Government of Quebec is wrong. So, who is the Premier negotiating with? Is he
negotiating with himself, perhaps, or is he negotiating with the members of his
caucus about this deal? Perhaps that is the truth.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Does he know, or does anybody in his
government or in the caucus know, or does anybody in the country know, what is
happening with negotiations to develop the Lower Churchill? Is the deal dead?
Are negotiations continuing? And if they are, who are they negotiating with?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the tactic of the Leader of the Opposition that he
has been trying to use now for some three weeks, of trying to create some
confusion. The fact of the matter is this: We are engaged in a negotiation,
trying to do something in the best interests of the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador. We will continue in that negotiation in whatever fashion that is
required. We have never placed any timelines with respect to a negotiation. That
is not a position we have ever put ourselves into. Our only objective is to get
the right deal for Newfoundland and Labrador, however long that takes, and we
will continue down that road and then gladly release it at some point to the
people of the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, in the media scrum following Question Period
yesterday, the Premier was more forthright than he had been in the House in
admitting that, in fact, the design and the engineering, and prefabrication of
the generators, the transmission towers and transmission cable for the Gull
Island project would be done in Quebec, by Quebec companies, and using Quebec
workers.
Mr. Speaker, my question for the Premier is: If all the work is occurring in
Quebec, would the Premier please tell the people what is left for companies and
workers from this Province other than the onsite work?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I know the questions are useful for the people of the Province in seeing
through the tactics of the Leader of the Opposition. He admits his position and
that of the party which he leads, is that we should not sign a deal -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for letting me finish the point.
The deal that nobody knows what it is because there has been neither one
released to the people of the Province. Mr. Speaker, they have no idea - which
is what they want the people of the Province to believe - of what might be in a
deal, but they know one thing, they are against it. They do not know what it is,
but they do know they are against it.
Mr. Speaker, the point raised in this question is an important one, and the
people in the Province have, in the past, been led down the garden path by
people like the Leader of the Opposition, who want to twist words and play
politics rather than deal with the facts. Everybody in this Province, everybody
in Labrador in particular, who were there when the Moores government spent $100
million on a failed attempt to do the Lower Churchill, put the road in from
Happy Valley-Goose Bay into the site, cleared the land for the so-called
construction camp, spent over $100 million - and the Member for Labrador West
nods that it is true -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier to get to conclude his answer, quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: The people who were at the meeting in Labrador last week
know it is true. That those people would rather pretend that some things are
possible in the Province and spend money on it and twist people in the wind and
leave them with false hopes rather than deal with reality, Mr. Speaker. We deal
in the real world.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There is one other person who would sign the deal that the Premier would sign
and that is Premier Bernard Landry. That is who would sign it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier to clarify a
couple of facts that have emerged concerning this project. Can the Premier
please confirm that Quebec will assume the following roles in this project that
is supposed to be 100 per cent owned, according to the Premier, by Newfoundland
and Labrador? Will he confirm that they will be the sole banker, the sole
customer, a project manager, and in the event of
schedule delays or budget
overruns, part owner of the project? Will Quebec, Premier, play all of these
roles?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, let me say it again. Of course, the Leader
of the Opposition will then suggest I did not answer the question. Let me say it
again. The role that anybody plays in any part of a project will be crystal
clear when there is a deal done and presented with all of the information to the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, back to the previous question where he
talked about the work that would be done in Quebec. Yesterday, with the media -
and they know what I said - I said no such thing. I said that the fact of the
matter is this: there is no plant in Newfoundland and Labrador that builds
turbines for power plants. In this Province, we have built Cat Arm, we are down
there now building Grand Canal, Abitibi did Star Lake. There are all kinds of
hydro projects that have been done in Newfoundland and Labrador over the last
fifty years and there has never been a turbine built in Newfoundland and
Labrador. Those turbines, Mr. Speaker, are going to be built by some company
that does it either in Quebec, somewhere else in Canada, somewhere else in North
America, or somewhere else the world; and that, Mr. Speaker, is the answer I
gave to the media outside the Legislature yesterday.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: I would not and will not, Mr. Speaker, mislead the people
of Labrador or this Province to believe that for Gull Island or anything else it
is realistic or achievable to suggest that someone is going to build a turbine
plant in Newfoundland and Labrador (inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Premier, we didn't build a gravity base structure or top-side modules
before, either, but we (inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to confirm some more facts, if
possible, from the Premier. Would the Premier confirm that in addition to Quebec
being the banker, the customer, the manager and the owner, and giving Quebec
most of the industrial benefits, doesn't the agreement that the Premier has
negotiated give Quebec control over the capital cost of the projects, the cost
of borrowing, and the price that we in fact get for the electricity? Isn't it
a fact, Premier, that all we have to do is pay the bills and take all the risks
at the end of the day?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad, again, that the Leader of the Opposition mentioned the gravity
base structure for Hibernia, because the same Leader of the Opposition is the
one who leads the party now that touted - and I give credit, Mr. Speaker, to
Premier Peckford of the day for at least getting an industry started, with the
help of John Crosbie from Ottawa, because we would never have an offshore sector
going; but this same party and this same leader, Mr. Speaker, is the one who has
been now saying - and the members stand up one after another, day after day in
this House, particularly the Finance critic, and say - isn't is awful that we
are not getting any royalties from Hibernia.
Guess why we are not getting royalties from Hibernia? Because the premier of
the day, his idol, said, you have to take the jobs. The very thing that the
Mayor of Happy Valley-Goose Bay is against today. We took the construction boom,
we took the jobs, and then there are no royalties for Newfoundland and Labrador.
Now he is suggesting that is the model that he would use if he were leader, that
we would take the jobs in the short term and leave Newfoundland and Labrador
with no benefits.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: I am glad to hear him talk about it, Mr. Speaker, so the
people of the Province can find out more and more every day what his real views
are about what should happen in the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: I am delighted the Premier is learning more and more every
day.
Mr. Speaker, I have worked in the business world for my entire life, and I
can assure you -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that I have never ever seen a contract in
which one party - in this case Quebec - acts as the banker, acts as the
customer, acts as the supplier -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question now.
MR. WILLIAMS: - acts as the manager, is potentially an owner, and has
control of capital costs, borrowing costs, and the price of the product.
Mr. Speaker, could the Premier please show the people any other project in
Canada in which one party to that contract has such a controlling and dominant
interest?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, I am always intrigued when the Leader of the Opposition speaks because
he usually prefers to say nothing about anything, because he does not want to
disclose his position. However, he has just said - I guess he has inferred, at
least - that he has never seen a contract that does this. He is inferring that
he must have seen something. Now the question is: maybe it is time for him now,
three weeks later, to say whether or not he has actually seen some terms of a
contract with respect to the Lower Churchill.
Mr. Speaker, let me make this point because it is important. The information
that we have been using, as the government, as the basis for negotiation, when
it has been shared within the Cabinet, within the caucus, and with the board of
Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, it has always been marked: commercially
confidential. It is confidential by the very nature of it, and it is
commercially confidential because, of course, it has a whole lot of business and
commercial overtones and overtures to it.
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is suggesting that he has seen
something that is commercially confidential. Maybe he will stand up now and tell
us whether he has seen it or not.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
So there was a deal. Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I would suggest to you that there is no other
contract negotiated in Canada under such bizarre and unrealistic terms, except
the Upper Churchill. Here we go again!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Will you table that deal so
that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador can have a look at it? Table that
commercial and confidential deal so we can go through it?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can appreciate the Leader of the Opposition getting a bit excited about it
and so on. I have never talked about a commercially confidential deal.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I have talked about - listen to the words -
commercially confidential documents.
Mr. Speaker, the members opposite know me - words are important -
commercially confidential documents that have been shared with people and used
here.
I have said repeatedly, as has the Minister of Mines and Energy, we have not
concluded a deal. The standard that we operate on and the commitment we give is:
when we conclude a deal, based on these commercially confidential documents that
we are using to negotiate, we will share it with everyone in the Province.
Maybe, again, the Leader of the Opposition might want to talk about whether
or not he has in his possession some commercially confidential documents. Surely
he would not want, as a citizen of Newfoundland and Labrador, to possess
documents that are confidential and not supposed to be in his possession, and
commercially sensitive, because he would not want to destroy a commercial
opportunity for Newfoundland and Labrador by having them improperly in his
possession.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.
As we prepare to mark the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence
Against Women, I note with deep concern that as of Friday past, the Happy
Valley-Goose Bay area is without a shelter for abused women. In view of the
federal government report released yesterday showing that violence against women
in Canada continues to be a significant and persistent problem, and that young
women and Aboriginal women are particularly vulnerable, what contingency plan
will the minister put in place immediately to ensure that this shelter reopens
without delay, particularly given the fact that during the Christmas season the
number of women and children seeking protection increases dramatically?
Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, I say to the minister, I don't care what the
dynamics are around the closure. There are women at risk.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to answer this question. I am
absolutely shocked that the member does not care what the dynamics are around
this closure.
The dynamics around this closure are very, very important. I think all of us
recognize and know - especially the members from Labrador - that there were
internal board problems. The board has had great difficulties over the last year
or so. They were down to two members for the last six months or so. It was very,
very difficult for these volunteers to continue to operate this way. This is a
very important service.
The Department of Health and Community Services, the Women's Policy Office,
Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, the health care board in that region, the
social plan committee in that region, all of us have been working and are very
concerned about this, and want to work very hard with them, and are working very
hard with them, to make sure that, as we reopen this facility, it does with a
very strong, healthy management structure and therein is where the problem lies
and it is a problem we are determined to work with the community to solve.
But, I also ought to point out, while we have put some temporary measures in
place using hotel rooms and using the on call social workers, a service that is
already up there -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to conclude her answer.
MS KELLY: - we also have new facilities or increased facilities on the
North Coast, and that is part of the reason why the numbers are so down at the
Goose Bay facility -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS KELLY: - because we are providing other facilities on the North Coast.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.
Can the minister tell the people of Newfoundland and Labrador why his
government has allowed the cardiac surgery program at the Health Care
Corporation to deteriorate to the point where we are now adding more surgeries
to the waiting list than we are actually doing in any one week?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to get the question from the hon.
member, and I am really surprised. I am amazed at the number of files that are
in my department, that he is choosing one in cardiac to focus on. Quite frankly,
this government has increased the number of cardiac interventions over the last
number of years to that of a higher rate than we have ever had in this Province.
That is not something we apologize for.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: In fact, Mr. Speaker, we recognize it because the need is
there and we are responding to that need.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, it is ironic that the current Minister of
Finance and the former Minister of Health, in her Budget Speech in 2001, said we
are going to provide enough funding to increase it to a level of twenty cases
per week. Mr. Speaker, today they are only averaging 13.3 cases per week. They
have never, ever reached the twenty that was committed in the 2001 Budget.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now to get to his question.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: So, my question to the minister today: What is he going
to tell the 300 people, who are on a waiting list that is growing every single
week -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: - what is he going to tell those 300-plus people about
how they are going to deal with that backlog, given the fact that they are only
doing an average of 13.3 a week and they are adding over fourteen a week to the
wait list?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the question, but it is rather interesting to watch the debate
in this House that has unfolded over the last number of days, to listen to hon.
members opposite, one after another, to rise to their feet and to attack the
Minister of Finance in terms of the spending practices of this government when,
quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, it is pretty obvious to everyone in this House and
to everyone in this Province, over the last number of years the health care of
this budget has grown year over year and that budget has grown in response to
the needs that are out there. They are recognized by this department, by this
minister, and by this government.
Quite frankly, the hon. member opposite is standing up and running on the cry
again today that we are not meeting the standards where he would like to see us.
Quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, we recognize the need, we are trying to respond to
it. Which way do you want it? What would you do? Because your colleague will be
up later on today telling us we shouldn't be spending as much money as we are.
How can we respond to the needs of the people of this Province when your
colleague, on one hand, is telling us to shut it down? Which way do you want it?
Let us know. Let the people of the Province know.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North, time for one quick
supplementary.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: The minister says: What does he want done? I want this
government to live up to the commitment they made in the year 2001, when they
said: We will do twenty cases per week.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: At that time, the minister said this was a problem
across the country.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question,
quickly.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: I say to the minister, at that time his former
colleague said that that was a problem across the country.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member ought to get to his question, quickly.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The question, very simply, Mr. Speaker, is: Will the minister commit today to
live up to the commitment made by his former colleague, to increase the number
of cases to twenty, or take advantage of the capacity that exists in Ontario and
send some of these people out before they die?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, let me say, at the outset, that the hon. member opposite is a
strange individual to be rising today and talking about commitment, preaching to
me about commitment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: This is a member who committed some time ago to sit on this
side of the House and represent the members of his district, and, quite frankly,
spoke with great passion while he was on this side of the House about the same
policies that he is condemning over there now.
Mr. Speaker, to the issue that was raised, which is an important issue, the
people of this Province need to know that this government is working to respond
to the needs that are out there. In fact, the reality is, and everybody in this
Province recognizes, that we do have a high incidence of cardiac disease in this
Province. That is a reality, and it does make certain specific demands on our
health care costs. That, Mr. Speaker, we are responding to and we are doing the
job that we committed to do on behalf of the people of this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and it concerns
the impending problem in the crab fishery in the Province.
Mr. Speaker, after four years of stability with a final offer selection
arbitration process for the price of crab, which followed five years of total
chaos in the industry, we are now facing the prospect of going back to the old
system and potentially seeing a tie-up in the fishery, instead of stable prices.
Mr. Speaker, there is a very short window between now and Christmas to fix this
problem.
Will the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture agree to introduce legislation
in this House to fix this problem, to ensure that the final offer selection
process will continue again this year as it has in the past four years?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We are, indeed, concerned about the final offer selection because it was this
party, along with my colleague who is now sitting in the gallery, that brought
that legislation into this House of Assembly. We are very concerned about that.
We have spent many days and many nights in the past two months discussing this
with the union and FANL. In fact, as late as yesterday I met with both those
groups, and we will do everything in our power to keep that system in place,
including bringing legislation into this House.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quid
Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This is a very crucial point, and the minister fully knows how important it
is. We only have two or three days left before this problem needs to be
resolved. Is the minister committing here today that, if necessary, legislation
will be brought before Christmas to ensure that we do not have this problem in
the spring?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, as I said, we were responsible for bringing this
legislation in, and, yes, we will, if necessary, bring legislation before this
floor before the Christmas break.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.
MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.
Notices of Motion. Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given
MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, because of the noise here I did not
hear you ask for presenting reports. Could we go back to that?
MR. SPEAKER: Can we revert to presenting reports?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I hereby table the annual report for the Provincial Advisory
Council on the Status of Women Newfoundland and Labrador for the fiscal year
2001-2002. As we commemorate December 6, the National Day of Remembrance and
Action on Violence Against Women, it is an appropriate day to table the report
of an organization which works to advance the status of women. Since we know
that inequality is at the root of violence, the equality seeking work of the
Advisory Council is an important component of the effort to reduce and prevent
violence.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am very proud to stand here today and present this petition on behalf of
500 residents of Fredrickton, Noggin Cove and Carmanville in that great District
of Bonavista North.
Mr. Speaker, if I may, I would like to recognize in the gallery one of the
main proponents of this petition, Mr. Wayne Wheaton from Fredrickton.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARDING: To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador,
in legislative session convened:
WHEREAS Route 332 was paved twenty-eight years ago; and
WHEREAS Route 332 is deteriorated to the point that no amount of maintenance
or repair can adequately redress this problem; and
WHEREAS Route 332 is the necessary route of travel for approximately 150
students to commute to and from school on a daily basis;
WHEREAS Route 332 is the necessary link for all means and measures of
commerce for our communities; and
WHEREAS Route 332 services approximately 300 productive, tax-paying families
directly;
THEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador,
more particularly of the communities of Fredrickton, Noggin Cove and Carmanville
hereby petition you to upgrade and pave Route 332 during the construction season
of 2003.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARDING: Mr. Speaker, the road in question is just one large mass of
pavement bumps and potholes, and I am sure the Cabinet ministers and other
government members who were in that part of the district in July of this year
certainly observed and must remember the state of that road in question.
Mr. Speaker, I fully support this petition and I respectfully ask the
Minister of Works, Services and Transportation to seriously consider including
this road in its 2003 budget.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present another petition on behalf of the residents of Bide
Arm, in particular, and, in general, the residents of Englee and Roddickton, on
the incinerator that is in close proximity - within one mile, actually - of the
Town of Bide Arm.
Mr. Speaker, I am not going to read the prayer of the petitioners because it
is quite lengthy, but suffice it to say that many of the people of Bide Arm,
Englee and Roddickton have great concerns about the incinerator that is there in
their area, the teepee style incinerator that we are so familiar with around
this Province. The final clause reads:
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to immediately remove the incinerator before more health and environmental
problems are realized.
Mr. Speaker, I sat here today and I listened to the Minister of Environment
as he read his Ministerial Statement and he talked about the grant that is being
given to the Central Newfoundland Solid Waste Management Committee to review
waste management options, landfill alternatives, transfer station options,
materials recycling and composting facility alternatives in the Central
Newfoundland region.
Mr. Speaker, the people of Bide Arm, Englee and Roddickton, and you can go on
into Conche and that whole area, have great concerns about the effect of the
incinerator that is within one kilometre of their town, the smoke that comes
down through the valley and covers the community on a very regular basis, given
its location in relation to the prevailing winds in that area. They have great
concerns about the effect that it is having on their drinking water, and they
have great concerns about the effect it is having on their health over the
eleven years since it has been established there, and breathing it on a very
regular basis.
Mr. Speaker, I fully support the petitioners. I fully support the people of
the Englee, Bide Arm and Roddickton area who are respectfully asking the
Minister of Environment to consider this request, to move expeditiously to find
an alternative waste management approach for this area, to find an area where
landfill can be used, to increased recycling, and to get rid of the teepee style
incinerator that we have there.
Mr. Speaker, we all know that there has been great debate in this Province
and in this country over the last little while on Kyoto, and the effects that it
would have, the implementation of Kyoto. Mr. Speaker, just by removing teepee
style incinerators from this Province would go a long ways, probably, towards
meeting our Kyoto commitments if we went that way. Irregardless of what happens
with Kyoto, certainly a community like Bide Arm, which is one kilometre
approximately from the incinerator, should not have, in this day in age, Mr.
Speaker, when we know the effects, when we know the toxins that come out of it-
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. TAYLOR: By leave, Mr. Speaker, to conclude for a few seconds?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in this day in age we now know what teepee style incinerators do
to the environment. We know the pollutants that come out of them. This is not
ten years ago or fifteen years ago or twenty years ago when we maybe naively
thought that it was a good way of disposing of garbage. These days we do know
all the facts about it, or enough of the facts anyway, to know that it is not an
appropriate way to make away with garbage and it is not an appropriate way for
people to have to live within one kilometre of an incinerator like this.
Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the people of Bide Arm, Roddickton and Englee, I
urge the minister to find an alternative form of garbage disposal in this area.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader
MR. LUSH: Order 21, Mr. Speaker, Bill 23, second reading of
An Act
Respecting The Provision of Income and Employment Support To The People Of The
Province, the adjourned debate.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of -
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if hon. members would permit, I was to do
first reading of Motion 4.
I move first reading, Mr. Speaker, of a bill entitled,
An Act Respecting An
Agreement With the Newfoundland and Labrador Medical Association. (Bill 33).
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to
introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting An Agreement With The Newfoundland And
Labrador Medical Association," carried. (Bill 33)
On motion, Bill 33 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I ask that we proceed with Order 21, the adjourned
debate on Bill 23.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today to make a few comments on Bill 23,
An Act Respecting The
Provision Of Income And Employment Support To The People Of The Province, Mr.
Speaker.
I say to the minister, when he introduced the bill it was certainly good to
see a minister get up and spend fifteen or twenty minutes with a good
description of what the bill is all about, what we could expect, and what the
changes are that are expected out of this bill. In fact, maybe, and I hope it is
not, but maybe the expectations are greater than what the outcome really will
be, because while sometimes there is a great intention to help people who are
less fortunate, and sometimes there are some great ideas, but when they are
implemented, and when the amount of funding is put forward, it certainly falls
far short of the need that is prevalent today with some of the most unfortunate
people in the Province.
Mr. Speaker, most people that you talk to on social services - I will say
social services because that is the term that we use and that we know - are
certainly not there by choice. The people that I talk to and the people who call
my office - I do not think my phone calls are any different from other people
that represent districts in this Province - are people on the other end of the
phone looking for a job. If the employment levels increase, and if we were
fortunate enough to have more people working then I would submit to you, Mr.
Speaker, that our problems within the Department of Human Resources and
Employment would be much less and the problems would be much smaller.
Mr. Speaker, the thing that never fails to amaze me is when we have problems
in this department then what we do, what the minister does, and what the
department does, is implement a blanket policy to cover everybody. If there is
somebody abusing something in the Department of Human Resources and Employment,
and if the abuse is there, what I suggest is that the minister and his
department deal with the abusers because far too often what they do is not deal
with the abusers, but bring in blanket policies that affect everybody and make
everybody else suffer because of the actions of a few. That is the easy way to
do it, I say to you, Mr. Speaker. That is the easy way to do it and it is not
something that should be done.
When I get phone calls from somebody who has a child and five months
pregnant, without a washer in the house, they are asked if there is a relative
living in the community. They are told that they are expected to carry their
clothes and the baby's clothes three-quarters of a mile away to take it to
somebody they know, or a relative, in order to get that clothes washed, then I
say we have a problem. I say that is not the way, I do not think, any of us
envision the department of social services to work.
I am going to refer to a couple of happenings and a couple of problems that I
have encountered. This is one of them: a lady, five months pregnant, one child,
a doctor's note saying that she has a problem with her back, unable to wash
clothes, but still the Department of Human Resources and Employment says: I am
sorry madam, but you cannot have a washer because our policy states that if
there is a relative living in the community then you are expected to carry your
dirty laundry three-quarters of a kilometre away, without a car, without a
truck, without transportation, I say to you, Mr. Speaker. I ask the minister,
and I ask people opposite, if this is the way that they expect the Department of
Human Resources and Employment to work? Is this the way that we are reaching out
to help people?
I will refer you to another situation where a constituent of mine, as well -
and I refer to the people and the problems that I know best. Newfoundland and
Labrador Housing did some major renovations to the house. They did an upgrade in
the electrical service, but because there was an upgrade in the electrical
service, it did not mean they had to put in a range receptacle. This particular
house was furnished with new windows, with new siding, with a new electrical
panel and the gentleman who was occupying the house went to the Department of
Human Resources and Employment and asked for an electric range. He put forward a
request. The request was: that I be provided with an electric range so I might
be able to cook a meal and boil the kettle.
The Department of Human Resources and Employment saw fit to give this
individual a new electric range. But, Mr. Speaker, guess what? The electric
range is sitting in his home without a plug to plug the range in. This same
individual takes a thermos bottle nighttime and goes out to his neighbour's
house to bring back hot water so he can have a meal. That is the kind of stuff
that is happening in the Department of Human Resources and Employment today.
They wired his house. They gave him a new electric stove but refused to put in a
plug to plug the electric stove in. You might laugh at that but that is true. I
think it is finally about to happen, by the way. I think it is finally about to
happen that somebody saw fit to say: Come on, what is happening here? But that
is a problem that has been on the go and I have been trying to resolve for the
last month-and-a-half. I think, today, it might be probably close to being
resolved.
That's how silly some of the rules and regulations are, and the way some of
those things are unfolding in the Department of Human Resources and Employment.
We talk about providing better ways and means of doing things. Mr. Speaker, it
is certainly overdue to rejig and to bring about changes in the Department of
Human Resources and Employment. It is time to deal with the real problems out
there and allow the people working within the department to be able to have some
leverage to deal with problems in their district rather than dealing with a
policy, that is an overall policy, which deals with major problems and not
bringing it down to a client, social worker or a client financial assistance
officer's request, because that is where it should be. Every problem should be
resolved and should be dealt with on an individual basis.
Mr. Speaker, the Department of Human Resources and Employment will go out
today and the first thing is, if you need a piece of furniture or if you need an
appliance, you have to be on social assistance for two years before they will
even consider you. Before they will consider giving you a major appliance or
some furniture. When they go out and if you need a bed today, there is a maximum
- I think it is $200 for a bed - that they will allow you to spend. Guess how
long that bed is supposed to last? Ten years. You are supposed to get ten years
out of a $200 bed and the department of social services will say to you, it
doesn't matter if you do not have a bed to sleep on. I am sorry, but you had a
bed nine years ago and you have another year left to go before we will supply
you with another bed to sleep on. That is disgraceful. That is shameful. It is
disgraceful and it should never be allowed to happen. It all goes back to abuse,
if there was abuse in the system. If somebody had gone out and gotten a piece of
furniture and did something with it that they were not supposed to do, then that
particular abuser should have been dealt with rather than bringing in blanket
policies to cover everybody who is unfortunate enough to be on social services.
Mr. Speaker, a few years ago some of the same people sitting on the opposite
side now - in fact, probably most of them - remember the Income Supplementation
Program that Mr. Wells wanted to bring in, and sent his ministers and his people
out around the Province putting forward the wonderful things that would happen
with the Income Supplementation Program. There were some good points in it.
There were some good things in the Income Supplementation Program. There were
some awful bad things there as well.
Mr. Speaker, I remember one of the things, and probably the biggest reason
why it failed. It would take into consideration family income. What that meant
was, if you had a son or if you had a daughter who was fortunate enough at the
time to be working out at Hibernia, and they were making $500 or $600 a week,
then they would have had to move out of their own home or else the mother, the
father, the son, the daughter, and everybody else in that household would have
had their entitlement to the Income Support Program taken into consideration by
what one person in that household was making. Is that a progressive step? Is
this the way that we meant for programs to work, Mr. Speaker?
Mr. Speaker, one good thing about the program - I do not know how much money
is going to be put forward or how meaningful it will be - is training. We
certainly need more opportunities for training, because until we train people to
have something to offer when they go and knock on somebody's door, until we
make those people more employable, then we will always have the problems that we
are experiencing today by people unfortunate enough not to find a job and
unfortunate enough not to have an income that will support their household and
their needs. There is certainly a big need in this particular area. I think I
read somewhere in the paper, the other day, that 39 per cent of Newfoundlanders
and Labradorians, in excess of 39 per cent of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians,
do not have a high school education. They finished their education by not going
out and obtaining and finishing a high school education.
What is frustrating as well is when you see many of those same people today,
calling and asking if they can go now and be considered to take
part in the
Adult Basic Education Programs and they are being told no, they cannot, because
HRDC does not fund them any more unless they are employment eligible or
unemployment eligible. That means they must have worked or collected EI within
the past thirty-six months. There is no money in the Department of Human
Resources and Employment to provide them, to meet their needs by going back in
training.
That is something where I hope the minister will put ample funding to look
after those people who are sincere, wanting to retrain, wanting to go back and
finish their education, so that they can make themselves more employable. That
is the only way we are going to see the numbers decrease on social assistance
and the numbers increase of people out there who are actively looking for work.
Mr. Speaker, another thing is the drug program, when people have to go and
access drugs whereby certain drugs are unable to be taken and, because it is not
a name brand or because it is not a generic drug, the Department of Health and
Community Services are saying: I am sorry but we will only pay up to a certain
amount and the rest, above and beyond the cost of the generic drug, is to be
borne by you.
Mr. Speaker, eyeglasses, the same thing. Not many insurance companies,
including the one that we have here, the one that we take
part in, as Members of
the House of Assembly, will pay 100 per cent of eyeglasses. I think there is
something wrong, I say to the Minister of Health and Community Services, when we
go out and say to people on social services that no, even though you have a
prescription from the doctor and yes, you need eyeglasses, if you are a single,
able-bodied person on social assistance and you do not need double vision
bi-focal glasses, we will only pay $84 for your glasses. I think our remittance
or what we receive for eyeglasses is something like $125 every three years.
Well, people here, I think most of us, can afford to go out and pay the other
extra $50 or $60 or $70, but I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that the person on
able-bodied assistance, living at home, for a single, able-bodied rate, living
with relatives, it is $48 every two weeks; $96 a month. For an able-bodied
person on social assistance today, living with their parents, it is $96 a month.
MR. LUSH: What should it be?
MR. FITZGERALD: I do not know what it should be, I say to you, Member for
Terra Nova, but I will tell you what; it should certainly be higher than $96 a
month. It should certainly be higher than $96 a month, and if we are only going
to pay them $96 a month, then at least we should be responsible enough to go out
and meet their needs for health care, eyeglasses and other things. That is the
kind of thing that we should be doing for those people. We should be supporting
them and putting forward the need and making them allowed to live with decency
and be able to have eyeglasses and be able to access drugs, and not deny them
the right to be able to go out and say, because you find yourself on social
assistance, you deserve less than what everybody else is getting.
Mr. Speaker, I know we are not flush with money. I know people shout out and
say: What would you want it to be, or how much money would you put into it? Let
me read this little ad here. Maybe we can access some of this money, I say to
the Government House Leader. This is a report that came out from the Auditor
General just yesterday on CBC. It reads: The Auditor General wants Ottawa to
explain why the Employment Insurance Fund takes in more money every year than it
needs. The surplus has risen - just listen to this - from $666 million in 1996
to $40 billion today and gives the government an annual windfall to bolster its
overall surplus.
Just imagine, $40 billion from an EI account up in Ottawa today. Fraser said
- that is Sheila Fraser, who is the Auditor General - generating revenue for the
government is not the purpose of the program, and she said the rates are far too
high. I don't hear a lot of people talking about rates, I say to members
opposite, I don't hear a lot of people saying that we should decrease the
unemployment insurance rates ten cents lower that what it is, or twenty cents. I
don't hear it much from employers, but I certainly don't hear it from people
who contribute. What they are asking, what those people are asking, is that what
is paid into that fund comes back to support the disadvantaged, the lowest paid
people in the Province, and ask the government to stop pillaging and robbing
money from them, and if they have it there now to pay it back, because that is
nothing short of highway robbery; $40 billion a year.
Guess where they are going to spend that $40 billion a year?
AN HON. MEMBER: Spending over a billion on gun registration.
MR. FITZGERALD: That is right, there is over a billion being spent on gun
registration, something that nobody wants. I haven't met two people in this
Province who want gun registration.
I am getting carried off the topic here now, Mr. Speaker. I say to people
opposite: This is one area that maybe we can get some money from. What better
way to spend it, than put it into a massive training program to make people more
employable. What better way to spend it, than when we fall into tough times like
we are falling into now in many parts of rural Newfoundland, as the Minister of
Municipal and Provincial Affairs knows. What better way to spend it, than to go
out and create some economic activity to build on our tourism industry, to put
up sites and to do thing that will attract tourists to our communities and our
towns. What better way to spend it? Because I can tell you what, the communities
out there cannot build and don't have the funding to build on infrastructure.
What a way to get people back to work. What a way to get them off unemployment
insurance. What a way to get them off social services.
Mr. Speaker, there is nothing worse and there is nothing as heart tearing as
when you see an able-bodied person on social assistance wanting to go to work.
There is nothing more that tears at your heart than seeing somebody who wants a
job and not being able to get a job. They are going to Alberta. There might be
lots of jobs up in Alberta, there might be lots of jobs up in Ontario, but going
to those places is not an option for everybody, I say to people opposite. Going
to Alberta or going to Toronto to live on their minimum wage, for the most part,
is not an option. I can tell you that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are proud
people and it is certainly not the place that they want to go, first of all. In
fact, most of them will go and do things that they shouldn't do. They go out
and live in ways that they shouldn't live, because they are too proud to go
and access social services.
Mr. Speaker, relocation: There is nothing wrong with relocation. The minister
talks about putting some funding into relocation and says that they are going to
be providing an opportunity for people to get an advance on what they would be
able to get in their normal cheque from social assistance to relocate. Nothing
wrong with that, if it is people's choice to relocate.
I know that I have gone to the Department of Human Resources and Employment
many times and the first thing people have said to me when I have asked for
relocation money for people who want to relocate is: I am sorry, but we are not
a lending agency, we don't buy airplane tickets, we are not a travel agent.
But when people want to relocate and if it is their choice, then we should reach
out and we should be able to help them.
Mr. Speaker, I understand I have one minute left. I am going to tell you
another story before I sit down. It has changed now, but I have to tell it. I
have to tell it because sometimes you get a phone call and you can hang up and
say goodbye. Other times you get phone calls and you will never, ever forget
them.
I am going to relate a little story to you - and I will make it quick, I say
to the Government House Leader - about a call that I got a few years ago from
this individual who had gotten her income tax back. At that particular time, no
matter how much income tax you got back it was all clawed back from the
Department of Human Resources and Employment. That has changed a little bit
today, by the fact that they allow you to keep $500. Mr. Speaker, at that
particular time -
MR. SPEAKER (Mercer): Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. FITZGERALD: Just a couple of seconds to clue up.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. FITZGERALD: At that particular time, this lady had gotten $220 back
in an income tax refund and she had gone out to buy a suit of clothes, a tie, a
pair of shoes and a shirt for her son to go to his graduation. Her son was
attending his high school graduation. She went out, she picked up the clothes,
and I can tell you it was not the highest priced stuff in the store. She bought
that much clothes for $220. Finally, the next week, before the graduation came
about, the money that she had gotten from the income tax she paid in while she
was working, which had nothing to do with social assistance, was clawed back and
taken from her. She had to take that clothes back to the clothing store in order
for her and her son to live, and deprive him of an opportunity to go and
graduate with the people he had gone to school with for thirteen years. That is
some of the kinds of things that are happening out there.
I say to the minister, there are some good things in this bill, but it will
take a commitment from you, Sir, to make sure that the funds are made available
so that it can become effective and help the people in this Province who need
the help most.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I just want to rise for a few moments. I was
motivated and energized by the remarks by the Member for Bonavista South. He
finished up by saying there are a lot of good - he started off by saying that he
hoped this bill would not raise the expectations of people unnecessarily, then
finished, and in between, brought in a lot of sad, horrific stories that he will
be able to relate if he is standing in this House in the year 2050. These
horrific stories are always there. But, he did not mention the great things that
are being done by the Department of Human Resources. He did not mention the
great success stories. I have some, but I will not get into them because this
bill is not about that. This bill is about the redesigning of the Department of
Human Resources, and bringing in legislation that will give dignity, restore
dignity, respect and self-esteem for the people who are unfortunate enough to
have to rely on the Department of Human Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, we realize that there are some people who find it
very difficult to get off the level of income provided by government. There are
some people who are there through unfortunate circumstances, of ill health; some
people because of their inability to find a job. Whatever the reason they are
there for, we have the dedicated workers who help these people to try and live
lives of dignity.
This program, this redesigned program, is to do precisely what the Member for
Bonavista South suggested: Training. To train people to get them into the labour
force, and that has been the emphasis. That has been the emphasis of the
government that he was just talking about when he talked about that surplus of
EI. The federal government has been involved in training for the last number of
years, and we hope that together we can work cooperatively. I would hope in
talking about raising the expectations that there is not one single
Newfoundlander or Labradorian in this Province who will be denied an opportunity
of training, that will be denied the opportunity for advancing themselves in
life because of lack of income, because of insufficient funds, because of their
station in life, and that is what this bill is all about, Mr. Speaker.
I can relate several stories where I have assisted and helped people to get
into training, to get jobs as a result of that. Yes, Mr. Speaker, there are sad
stories. There are people living on incomes that is very difficult to get by on.
It is very difficult to provide the necessities of life. But, one has to realize
that it is difficult to come to what figures ought to be the right figures. What
are the rates? What are the amounts of money that will allow a family to live
comfortably and be able to have food and shelter and clothing, the necessities
of life? This government has been working in that area very sincerely and very
seriously trying to ensure that all of our people have the necessities of life,
but this bill will give a new design and a new emphasis to the Human Resources
development with emphasis on training.
If hon. members could only speak to that issue, and advertise this program to
their constituents, that this is what this program is about, to train people. I
think that will give them hope. That, in itself, will reassure people that
nobody in this Province needs to be unskilled; nobody needs to be untrained,
because that is the emphasis in Canada today. Canada wants to provide. Canada
wants to build one of the best workforces in the world. That is what Canada
wants to do as a country, to build one of the best workforces in the world. We
want to do that in Newfoundland and Labrador. We want to be a part of building
that workforce. In order to build that workforce, we have to train our people.
This is why training is such an important part of this program, and this is why
the emphasis in both levels of government, provincial and federal, is training.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Member for Bonavista South also mentioned the
adaptability allowed in this particular legislation to help people to relocate,
to find a job. We have all gone through that, the absolute frustration of people
having a job and not being able to finds the ways and means of getting there, or
getting there to be able to exist while they get their first cheque or first
couple of cheques. When you move somewhere it involves expenses. You have to
live. You have to find accommodations. When everything is cut off - when your
human resources monies are cut off the minute that you find a job it makes it
pretty difficult. So this bill adapts to that kind of situation; allows some
flexibility.
Mr. Speaker, this bill will improve the lot of people who, through
unfortunate circumstances, find themselves having to depend on the Department of
Human Resources. This bill will do a tremendous amount to help their
self-esteem, to give them respect, and to help them to be contributing citizens
of society. Any bill that does that is a good bill, Mr. Speaker, and I am sure
that all hon. members will support the thrust and the focus of this particular
bill.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today, as many of my colleagues have done, to speak on Bill 23,
An Act
Respecting The Provision Of Income And Employment Support To The People Of This
Province - this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
I get up with the intention of supporting this bill. It is a bill that is
overdue. Overdue I say, because really the last revision of the three acts that
this is replacing happened in the 1970s into the 1980s and, of course
throughout, up until now, this 21 st century. I say to you, Mr.
Speaker, there have been things in Newfoundland and Labrador that have changed
dramatically since these bills were first put before this House of Assembly.
This bill I see as certainly addressing these particular changes. To look at a
bill regarding income support and employment support, when we look at this type
of a bill, we are talking about people's lives. We are not talking about some
of the finance bills that come forward. We are talking about just
generalizations, but in this particular one - and the Government House Leader
was just up on his feet, as was my colleague from Bonavista South, and bringing
in the thoughts of the numerous examples that any of us here in this House could
put forth, any of these members could put forth, as we recollected on our
experiences with dealing with the people who are affected by this particular
bill.
The people who are affected by this bill, Mr. Speaker, are people who find
themselves in a situation where they need some sort of a hand up so that they
can move forward. It could be a particular crisis in this lives. Maybe they are
unemployed, with no hope of getting a job. They could have gone through a
particular family crisis or situation. It could be that they are part of a cycle
of poverty from one generation to the next, but in all cases, I would say to
this hon. House, there is certainly a need in our society. It has not
diminished. The numbers may have diminished but the needs are there and. I think
it has been suggested that these needs, perhaps, will always be there. We can
only hope that when we bring in new legislation that we can address the needs,
not only of the present time but of the future time, and that anything that we
do is intended to certainly make our society better in the way of addressing the
needs of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
This Bill 23 is looking at, I guess, creating some of sort of a social safety
net to address some of the situations I have already referred to, and this
social safety net, whether it is through income support or through employment,
can make people's lives more dignified. It can make people's lives certainly
lives that are not suffering through lack of income, through lack of food,
through lack of clothing, through lack of housing. These are, I guess, the
needs. Of course, people in our society today, those needs do not change - food,
shelter and clothing - but we have challenges in this Twenty-First Century, the
second year of the Twenty-First Century, that were not there thirty years ago.
Again, I am assuming that this bill is addressing the particular changing - one
thing about Bill 23 that I noticed as I read through it, is that there were lots
of references to the various family situations that people find themselves in.
With regard to family, Mr. Speaker, we have seen such tremendous changes in what
I guess we look upon as the average family or the type of family that you would
expect in our particular society, and we have had to come to grips with the
better understanding of what a family actually is. It is good to see that Bill
23 does address the changing, I guess, times with regard to what constitutes a
family. We have different terms that are used and, once again, it is certainly
good to see that a family does not necessarily have to mean the birth parents,
does not have to mean that a family has to be a family because of marriage, that
there are so many different circumstances out there that this bill encompasses
all of them, or at least it should.
Again, to look at Bill 23 as addressing the changing time, we have, in this
Province, certainly seen a drastic decline in the number of young people in the
Province. For the first time ever, we see that the death rate and the birth rate
- I should say that the birth rate is declining, that our seniors population is
ever increasing, and that this is putting different pressures on our resources
as we try to come to grips with making sure that the needs of our families, of
our individuals, are being met. As we look at our birth rate declining, as we
look at the number of young people leaving the Province - with regard to young
people, as well, Mr. Speaker, it is alarming to realize that even though there
are less in numbers of children in this Province, the percentage of them living
in poverty has remained rather constant and to some degree has increased. These
are situations or these are developments, Mr. Speaker, that we really have to
take into account as we try and put together some sort of strategy, some sort of
plan, for what is coming in the years to come.
If this bill is indeed the two-pronged approach that is necessary in order to
address these problems, I certainly stand on my feet in supporting it and, in
supporting it, realizing that there are a number of things that we certainly
have to take into account; because it is alright for, I guess, any legislative
body to put forth a bill, and a bill that can address a particular situation,
but it is not so much the context of what is in the bill as we see it here now.
It is what follows in regard to policy, what follows in regard to funding, what
follows in regard to, I guess, in a general sense, what will be the follow-up of
this particular bill.
The amazing thing about this particular bill, I believe, Mr. Speaker, is that
this bill certainly confirms for me that what is actually happening out there
did not necessarily follow the previous bills or the previous acts, because I
draw the House's attention to the people who are most responsible for carrying
out the wishes of this Assembly with regard to any particular bill that becomes
an act of this Province. The front line workers - and I have had the pleasure of
establishing a relationship with the workers in the field in a number of
different areas in my district, and I realize fully that they have had to change
with the changing demands, with regard to how they deal with clients, the type
of situations they are running across. Let me tell you, they have moved ahead in
practice, that I am looking at the bill as literally catching up with, because
there are things going on in this Province that are certainly in keeping with
what is contained in this bill. This bill, I would assume, would certainly
ensure that there is a consistency throughout the Province.
To the workers who take care of income support throughout this Province, I
have to say that they are doing a tremendous job, although I must say it has to
be perhaps one of the most stressful jobs that anyone could engage themselves
in. As I spoke about at the very beginning, this is a bill about people. It is
not a bill about intangible things or inanimate things. It is about people's
lives, people who are struggling, people who are moving forward, people who need
assistance. We have children, middle-aged, seniors, right through the whole
gamut, I guess, of our population.
If we look at the two prongs of this particular bill, we talk about on the
one hand income or economics, and on the other hand we talk about employment.
Let me tell you, there are tremendous challenges with regard to employment,
especially in some parts of this particular Province. I know that the thrust of
this will be to train or help in training people for jobs that are available,
and therein lies a problem. In my experience, first of all, with regard to
skilled workers, I have seen many skilled workers who are on income support, not
because they do not have the training; it is because they do not have the
opportunity to put their skills to work.
I have seen some people who have been injured at work, or not even at work,
who cannot work, and find themselves in a situation where the employment
opportunity is not there, and they have to. In those cases, again, training is
not going to be able to increase their opportunity because they are highly
skilled even as we speak.
A part of the employment, as well - because I find, too, that Newfoundlanders
and Labradorians are very creative when it comes to handling situations, and I
know that we are talking about training, job opportunities and so forth. I
wonder, as well, because in some of my dealings with my constituents there is
talk of: Well, if I cannot get a job, and there is no job around, what about the
possibility of creating my own job? I would hope that this bill deals not only
with training, with regard to skills and employable skills, but I hope there is
a part of it that will talk about people trying to become self-employed. So that
if you decide that the best way out of your situation, or to better your
situation is to put together some sort of a company, some sort of a business
whereby you can move forward at the same benefits that are earmarked for you for
training, or to go to post-secondary, or whatever, will also be available with
regard to your self-employment.
Challenges in rural districts; again, job opportunities. We have to look at
the seasonal employment that is out there, our geography, the demographics.
These are challenges that have challenged people throughout our history here in
Newfoundland and Labrador. Once again, I am hoping that this bill will be able
to, first of all, recognize the challenges and really put some good support for
these people who certainly need it.
With regard to the implementation; I am assuming that in committee we will
get more by the clauses and we can bring up some of our points there. With
regard to the two-pronged approach, I certainly have no difficulty with that,
expect to say that with regard to employment, I would like to make sure that in
that bill there is provision for the self-employment.
With regard to the implementation - and again, I referred to this earlier,
that implementation of any bill - and we have already gone through some bills
now that I see going through, for example, the cellphone. When we talked about
the cellphone legislation coming through concerns were raised: Would the police
enforcement officers in the Province be able to enforce this particular law when
it comes in? There is no sense putting in a law if we cannot enforce it. I apply
it to this bill as well.
With regard to the implementation, there are two areas that I certainly would
have to look at with the implementation, and one is the funding priority. Of
course, we all know that if you ask anyone about funding - and I do not want to
get into funding because I might get some chatter back from the other side. The
point that I want to make about the funding part of it is that we all can talk
about priorities in health and education and right down through, but I see this
as a funding priority. I would certainly support the minister in his attempts to
get the funding required to make sure this is implemented and not to get into a
rhetoric of whether the funding is there or we are asking for more money.
Funding is an absolute priority here because I can understand that when we are
doing this transition that if the funding is not there, our good intentions
could fall to the wayside.
So it is important that if we are going to bring it forward - now this leads
into to second one and not only is the required funds, and I do not know how
much it is going to cost. The minister might be able to talk about that as a
ballpark figure or something over the next so many years. The second part about
it, Mr. Speaker, is the human resources, because this bill is not going to be
effective - I will use the word effective - unless we look at how it is going to
be implemented by the people in the field.
I am down to one minute, so I am hoping that some more of my concerns will be
able to be brought through, but on the implementation with regard to the human
resources, we have people out there now who are trained social workers and the
associated, I guess, professions around that because I look at this bill as more
of social work. If we are going to add that other prong, which is the
employment, there is going to have to be, I guess, training and a different
direction for some of the workers who are out there. I am hoping that the number
will be there, the number of workers required, that the qualifications will be -
they will be given the opportunity to upgrade their qualifications or to add on
qualifications, that they will get the training and support so they can
certainly bring about, and bring out the best of this bill and make it into a
bill that is going to be able to be enacted into law that will take care of the
needs of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, not only in the short term but
in many years to come.
Again, I say to the minister, certainly my support is there for this bill. As
we go through committee, in clause by clause, I hope that I might be able to get
on my feet in some of the different clauses so that I can further get my points
across.
On that note, Mr. Speaker, I will close off my comments on Bill 23,
An Act
Respecting The Provision Of Income And Employment Support To The People Of The
Province.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: I am just wondering if hon. members would allow me to give a
notice of motion.
Mr. Speaker, the notice of motion is under Standing Order 11, that on Monday
the House - I am making a double-motion actually - not adjourn at 5:30 o'clock,
and that the House not adjourn at 10 o'clock.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the hon. Government House Leader that we look forward to Monday's
extended debate and we will get lots of rest over the weekend in anticipation of
some healthy, heated, good, solid debate on Monday evening.
Mr. Speaker, my comments today about Bill 23 - first of all, I want to
comment the minister and his staff for having presented such a comprehensive
analysis of what needs to take place in the future and also for having provided
us with a copy of the consultation paper much earlier.
I would like to divide my comments into a couple of different areas. One,
income support and the other is in employment training, but the third one is in
the provision of services. There is some detail with respect to specific
language that is here that I would like to comment on when we get to the
committee stage. But, let me first deal with a couple of things. In the issue of
provision of services, there is a bit of history and, I guess, just to provide
some backdrop for those - coming from the same page. The separation out, a few
years ago, of some of the programs and services that were historically in Human
Resources and got transferred over to the Department of Health and Community
Services. I guess some of my comments about the provision of services stem from
that transition of a few years ago.
There are three areas, in particular, Mr. Speaker, that I would like to
comment on. One is in the area of assessment for medical equipment. Some of my
comments come from my personal experiences as an MHA representing constituents
on issues that have surfaced. When I consider what the assessment process for
medical equipment involves - I just have to pose a question to the minister and
for him to give some consideration and be in a position, when we comment in
committee, about the rationale for it. If you have individuals, and the minister
has, in fact, stated that in his report of the consultation, he says: that 11
per cent of the youth alone, who are new entrants to the program, are persons
with disabilities.
He goes on to acknowledge that many of the people who are on the program and
require income support long-term have many other challenges, including their age
and their disability. I say to the minister, in this particular area of
assessment for medical equipment, my experience has been, in dealing with
constituents, that this is a very frustrating process. What happens? An
individual may or may not be a client of Human Resources and Employment. There
may be individuals who are in receipt of income support from HRE and, as a
result of that, they find themselves, when they need services, when they have a
difficulty, they call their client service officer. They come into the office or
a chat by phone, and there is an assessment process. But frequently, Mr.
Speaker, individuals who are eligible for financial support for medical
equipment may not necessarily be in receipt of income support from HRE. When
that happens, there is a conflict here.
Let me give you an example. There is a constituent in my district who is, as
a result of an accident several years ago, finds himself not being able to work
ever again and is experiencing some excessive medical difficulties. That
individual is not a client of HRE, in terms of getting income support, but is
eligible for many of the other benefits: a drug card, and is eligible to receive
some support in having some medical equipment provided. But what we found - I
was about three weeks working with that individual, with meetings with HRE
staff, meetings with staff from the community service board, looking at what
this person was entitled to. What I found, Mr. Speaker - and this is not unique
to this particular client, this particular individual, because this has happened
several times - individuals walk into an HRE office and say: I would like to
have some help. I need some support. They sit down and they tell their story,
provide their circumstance, only to find that individual is told, under our
programs, we cannot help you. Because of your income, because of the supports
that you have around you, you are not eligible for programs under HRE. However,
Mr. Speaker, they might say, and have said, there is a program that is
administered by Health and Community Services Boards called Enriched Needs . You
may be eligible for benefits through that program. The individual then finds
themselves back in their car travelling down the highway to visit another
office, and they go into that office and suggest that they would like some help
and some support only to be told: Have you first made application to HRE? Have
you first made application to Human Resources and Employment? Do you meet the
income levels? What answers did they give you?
What that tells me, Mr. Speaker, is that there is a lack of co-ordination
between agencies. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, if there is an individual - and I
think what we need to be looking at is from the constituent, or in this case
from a client, or a recipient of benefits, from their perspective is how we need
to look at this.
When it is recognized that the predominant agency that is going to be dealing
with an individual is Health and Community Services, then I believe
realistically it is Health and Community Services that should be providing the
ongoing support to those individuals.
The area of assessment for medical equipment is one particular program that
comes to mind. My experience with that particular program, Mr. Speaker, and I
say to the minister it is not that his staff are not supportive and helpful. I
think, with the way the program is structured, there is too much toing and
froing between the Health and Community Services Boards and HRE around the
supplying and provision of those services. What has been happening, instead of
having a single point of entry for clients who need services, what is happening
is people who find themselves in this disadvantaged position are being sent as
individuals from one office to the next, only to find when they get to one
office, did you bring the information with you from HRE? No, I did not. Well, we
cannot do anything today because we are waiting on the information from HRE.
I think, Mr. Speaker, it is important, if we are going to now revamp the
programs with a focus on employment - and I endorse that. I commend the minister
for bringing in a new focus, but we need to recognize that the income support
element of the program, and other areas of support for people with disabilities
or people who require transportation for medical purposes, these are people who
find themselves needing access to our social safety net. As we shift from a
focus to benefit provision to providing programs to support greater income or
greater employment opportunities, we do not lose sight of the intent of this
program in providing some supports for people who find themselves in a very
vulnerable position.
The second program, medical transportation. I have had circumstance where
individuals have called my office and have had some difficulties and they need
support and access to some financial support to be able to travel for medical
attention. Make application to Human Resources and Employment, they do not meet
the income thresholds, because in the application process to HRE, the income
thresholds factor in certain expenses. When the client service person says, you
are not eligible for benefits under our program, and they leave the office,
frequently those same people will call my office and say: I have some problem. I
applied for benefits for medical transportation and I was told I do not meet
certain income requirements. They tell me their story and I am surprised. I call
the department and get the same information about what the policy guideline say.
A colleague earlier this week talked about the policy guidelines. I
understand there need to be policies and regulations that flow from legislation,
but what I find frustrating, as an MHA working with constituents - so I can only
imagine the level of frustration that the constituent finds, because when they
go in to HRE and they are turned down for benefits because of the income
thresholds, because the regulations say you can only consider certain expenses,
but if you take that same constituent and drive him down the highway, fifteen
minutes, and walk into the offices of the Health and Community Services Board
and sit down with a financial assessment officer, that person says: We are able
to factor in these sorts of things, but, in addition, we are also able to give
consideration to other expenses the individual has. And, by doing that, they now
become eligible.
If, as a government, we are going to be providing financial support for
medical transportation, then really what we want to ensure is that people who
need that at a time when they are very vulnerable, experiencing some difficulty,
and obviously have some medical problems they are trying to deal with, they do
not need the frustration of having to deal with two separate agencies who are
involved in administering the exact same problem, but using different criteria.
Health and Community Services introduces this terminology call Enriched
Needs, and under that program they are able to give consideration. So, once
again, as a MHA, acting as an agent for the constituent, I am back and forth
between the Human Resources and Employment office and the Health and Community
Service office, either in person with the constituent or by phone, trying to
facilitate the transfer of information between two separate departments of
government. I find that personally extremely frustrating. As I said, I cannot
imagine the constituent who is experiencing that same - because that is the
individual who is affected by this.
I say to the minister, these are things that I believe should be well within
the mandate of Health and Community Services Boards. So I suggest, as he is
looking at a new focus for his program, I think there are a couple of things
that are left over from that transition from Human Resources and Employment over
to Health and Community Services, that have still not been tidied up. Two of
them very clearly: medical transportation and assessment for medical equipment.
The third one is a big one. We heard the minister, I believe he used the
figure of 38,000 families getting benefits under the Provincial Prescription
Drug Program, and that is a line item in the budget. It is an item that we see
in the area of Health and Community Services budget, but in terms of the
administration of it, in terms of making application to determine eligibility,
it is the Department of Human Resources and Employment who individuals must go
to in order to make application.
Problem number one: it is a repeat of the exact same points that I raised
with respect to medical transportation and assessment for medical equipment.
Human Resources and Employment have their guidelines and regulations, and their
employment services officers have to follow those, and I understand that, but
why is it that when you then take the same person down to the Health and
Community Services Board, they are able to factor in other expenses that
individual has, to determine eligibility for benefits.
In the course of my three years as an MHA, I have had numerous occasions to
work with constituents on those very three benefits: prescription drugs, medical
transportation, and assessment for medical equipment. Pretty much without
exception, I have gotten a different answer from Human Resources and Employment
than I have gotten from Health and Community Services, only to work with the
constituent through the bureaucracy to find that they now become eligible for
benefits. Now, Mr. Speaker, the question is, I get numerous calls like that to
my office on an ongoing basis, but I am certain there are many people out there
who never call my office, or call the offices of any other member in this House,
asking for assistance, because they went to see a financial assessment officer
or client services officer with Human Resources and Employment, made an
application, and was told: I am sorry, you are not eligible for benefits. I am
very sorry, and you must leave.
Unfortunately, the result is someone who otherwise would be entitled to
benefits, if they had someone working for them to navigate them through the
bureaucracy and to try to ensure that they get the right access to the benefits
that they are entitled to. Mr. Speaker, that is unfortunate.
I say to the minister, he should take advantage of this opportunity right now
as he is redeveloping the program and looking at a new focus for his Department
of Human Resources and Employ