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December 3, 2014

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2014-Dec-03 (PDF)

L037 - Wed 3 Dec 2014 / Mer 3 déc 2014

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 3 December 2014 Mercredi 3 décembre 2014

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Agriculture Insurance Act (Amending the Crop Insurance Act, 1996), 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur l’assurance agricole (modifiant la Loi de 1996 sur l’assurance-récolte)

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Taxation

Taxation

Government services

Government services

Social Assistance Management System

Social Assistance Management System

Forest industry

Ontario Place

Environmental assessment

Beekeeping industry

Domestic violence

Mental health and addictions strategy

Highway construction

Post-secondary education

Wind turbines

Deferred Votes

Time allocation

Members’ Statements

Debi Johnson

Ron Cherney

Christmas Caravan

Christmas season

Boris Natyshak

Cumberland village

International Day of Persons with Disabilities

Abdirizak Warsame and Paul Howard

Kingston Interval House

Sign-language

interpretation

Visitors

Introduction of Bills

Protecting Passenger Safety Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la protection de la sécurité des passagers

Right to Care Act (Children 16 Years of Age and Older), 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur le droit aux soins en ce qui concerne les enfants de 16 ans et plus

Ottawa School Day Nursery Inc. Act, 2014

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Michaëlle Jean

International Day of Persons with Disabilities

International Day of Persons with Disabilities

Michaëlle Jean

International Day of Persons with Disabilities

International Day of Persons with Disabilities

Michaëlle Jean

Petitions

Wind turbines

Employment standards

Legal aid

Hospice funding

Mining industry

Cemeteries

Wanstead Transmission Station

French-language education

Hospital funding

Social assistance

York region chair

Hydro rates

Hispanic Heritage Month

Orders of the Day

Security for Courts, Electricity Generating Facilities and Nuclear Facilities Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la sécurité des tribunaux, des centrales électriques et des installations nucléaires

Making Healthier Choices Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 pour des choix plus sains

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Agriculture Insurance Act (Amending the Crop Insurance Act, 1996), 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur l’assurance agricole (modifiant la Loi de 1996 sur l’assurance-récolte)

Mr. Leal moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 40,

An Act to amend the Crop Insurance Act (Ontario), 1996 and to make consequential amendments to other Acts / Projet de loi 40, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1996 sur l’assurance-récolte (Ontario) et apportant des modifications corrélatives à d’autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Mr. Leal.

Hon. Jeff Leal: Mr. Speaker, I’ll be sharing my time with my parliamentary assistant, the member from Beaches–East York.

Good morning. I’m honoured to rise in the House today to speak to second reading of the Agriculture Insurance Act.

As we all know, Ontario farmers grow and harvest a diverse range of crops and livestock. When unforeseen challenges such as pests, weather and disease strike, production insurance is there to provide coverage for losses and yield reductions. In Ontario, production insurance is currently available for nearly 90 different agricultural products, but Ontario farmers grow and raise more than 200 commodities. This leaves some farmers’ products ineligible for production insurance.

If passed, the proposed Agriculture Insurance Act would give farmers who produce agricultural products other than crops and perennial plants access to the insurance they need to safeguard their investments. This would level the playing field so that our producers could access the same kind of protection as every other farmer in Canada today. This would help to grow their farms and, in turn, Ontario’s agri-food sector.

While serving as Minister of Agriculture and Food, Premier Wynne issued the agri-food growth challenge. It calls on the sector to double its annual rate of growth and to create 120,000 new jobs by 2020. This challenge recognizes the significant opportunity that this sector has to offer. It is an ambitious target, but I have every confidence in our ability to meet the challenge. As Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs, I’m fully committed to growing Ontario’s agri-food sector and meeting the Premier’s challenge.

The agricultural sector is a cornerstone of employment and economic growth in this great province. It employs over 760,000 Ontarians, exports over $11 billion worth of agri-food products and generates $34 billion in GDP for the province of Ontario.

We’re already making progress towards meeting the Premier’s challenge. Between 2012 and 2013, Ontario’s agri-food sector saw a 44% increase in food processing investment while adding 17,000 new and sustainable jobs. This is the kind of growth, on all sides of this House, we want to continue achieving, working in partnership with the sector.

To create future opportunities for growth, farmers need business supports that allow them to compete in national and international markets. Just as farmers and agri-food innovators are evolving with the industry, so too must government assist them in their day-to-day needs.

The proposed amendments aren’t a new idea; rather, they’re an evolution of a concept that has been in development for over 50 years. The amendments we’re proposing now are the next phase of that evolution. In 2013, more than 14,000 farmers in Ontario had production insurance. Their policies covered five million acres of farmland and $2.9 billion in liabilities.

Ontario’s agri-food sector is strong, but not without its challenges. Agricultural markets are volatile, prices fluctuate and yields are at the mercy of many different factors. Our province needs effective business risk management programs in place to cope with these fluctuations and give our farmers the stability they need to grow and create more jobs in the province of Ontario.

A robust production insurance program is an important component of a well-developed business risk management plan, and making production insurance available to more agricultural commodities helps farmers manage the risks they face every day.

Mr. Speaker, expanding our production insurance program would also help us to responsibly manage the province’s finances. When producers suffer losses, and don’t have production insurance, it puts pressure on the province to respond with a direct, ad hoc program. We’ve seen ad hoc programs cost the province millions of dollars in a single fiscal year.

Production insurance is premium-based, the costs of which are shared by farmers and both the provincial and federal governments, which encourages best practices and the appropriate sharing of risk. An expanded production insurance program could, if passed, provide similar financial assistance but divide the cost between the federal government, the provincial government and producers in an incremental way over a much longer period of time.

With the proposed Agriculture Insurance Act, both government and farmers would know each year what their costs will be. This will allow for better financial management and a predictable, stable support system for Ontario farmers. Even if we’re surprised by a catastrophic event that negatively impacts farmers, our expense to address lost production won’t change, and we’ll be able to help provide farmers with the appropriate support. Production insurance protects both farmers and the government from unexpected costs.

Farm leaders whom I had the opportunity to meet with extensively over the last number of months have told us that Ontario’s Risk Management Program is far superior to any other program in terms of assisting job creation, bankability and predictability for the agri-food sector. We continue to work collaboratively with our partners to make sure that the Risk Management Program is fiscally responsible and predictable to both government and producers.

Canada has a national suite of integrated and complementary business risk management programs in place to help farmers manage risks that are beyond their control each and every day.

We have recognized that production insurance plans need to move beyond just crops to include insurance for other agricultural products. The agricultural sector needs production insurance, not just crop insurance. This change will finally bring Ontario in line with the rest of Canada and fulfill a commitment that we made to farmers under the Growing Forward 2 program. We will continue to work collaboratively with stakeholders to build a national suite of programs that are effectible, predictable and, indeed, bankable.

As my colleague the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane said after the first reading of this bill, expanded production insurance “will mean the difference between paying the bills and losing the farm” for many of our producers in Ontario today. When farmers can’t pay their bills, they also can’t start growing and creating more good jobs for our province and, as I frequently say, they can’t buy those Ford F-150s.

Production insurance is about protection, but it’s about other possibilities. Expanding production insurance will be a valuable risk management tool for Ontario farmers. It will be a catalyst for growth in the agri-food sector.

We have a lot of questions to answer and a lot of work ahead of us to develop these plans. But as always, we’ll work collaboratively together, and I want to make sure that all members of this House participate in this important debate. I’ve heard a lot of support from my colleagues here in the Legislature, and I’m indeed very grateful for that.

Ontario’s agricultural sector has a huge potential for growth, and the Agriculture Insurance Act will, if passed, allow for this growth to happen. Giving more producers the opportunity to access production insurance will help them to manage risk better and encourage greater innovation, profitability and job creation in the agri-food sector.

I ask my colleagues to work with me to help my ministry enable growth in this sector by supporting the Agriculture Insurance Act. Growth in the agricultural sector would not only be good for this sector, Mr. Speaker, but good for the entire province of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mr. Arthur Potts: It does give me great pleasure to rise to speak to Bill 40, our government’s proposed Agriculture Insurance Act. It gives me special pleasure because it’s my first official opportunity to address this House in my capacity as parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. I was so delighted when Premier Wynne asked me to participate in that role, knowing how important the agricultural sector was to her, having kept that role herself when she was first elected as leader of the party. It’s an important role, and I’m delighted to have an opportunity to fulfill it.

I know that this act is extremely important to my constituents in Beaches–East York. Many people will ask, “Why would your residents be concerned about crop insurance? It’s not like there’s fields and fields of corn and hay in Beaches–East York.” But the reality is, as I explain to people regularly, that as consumers we are very concerned about how food is grown in Ontario. That is a concern shared in Beaches–East York, and I’m delighted to rise here in this opportunity to speak to the bill today.

Yesterday, the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke challenged this government to come forward with acts of consequence and significance that would raise the level of debate in the House. I’m sure he will agree, as all members will, that this is an important bill that deserves all of our support to help rural communities be more profitable moving into the future.

Mr. Speaker, Ontario farmers work diligently to produce goods for the benefit of Ontarians. Ontario farmers hope that the calculated choices they have made, paired with circumstances out of their control, result in favourable production yields and a profitable outcome. Production loss is one of the greatest risks faced by Ontario farmers each and every growing season.

Minister Leal did an excellent job explaining what production insurance is. I believe it will be beneficial for us all to now understand the history of production insurance and business risk management programs in Ontario and our steps in creating a new plan if these proposed amendments are passed. As Minister Leal said, production insurance is not a new concept. It’s a program that our province has had experience with for over 50 years.

When our critics ask why it has taken us so long to expand production insurance to these new areas, they may not realize that we have been expanding production insurance to many crops and products for decades. Now we have the opportunity to take the next important step forward, including additional agricultural products in the proposed Agriculture Insurance Act.

Mr. Speaker, before there was a suite of business risk management programs for agriculture, there was production insurance. Crop insurance, as it was then called, laid the foundation for a wide variety of business risk management programs that our provincial and federal governments provide today. Production insurance first became available in Ontario in the 1960s, after the federal Crop Insurance Act was passed in 1959.

Throughout its history, the key principles of production insurance have remained the same. Production insurance is based on participation by the federal and provincial governments and by the producers. It is based on shared program costs. It includes voluntary production, as farmers must choose whether or not to enrol in the program. They can choose the parameters of the plan that make the most sense for their individual business needs. Production insurance is administered by the province, not the federal government, so that decisions are made by the people who best understand the local land and its challenges. Most importantly, production insurance is based on actuarial soundness.

If passed, the proposed Agriculture Insurance Act would allow more types of agricultural products to be eligible for insurance, based on the same key principles. Federal legislation established the national framework for production insurance, but within that framework, there is flexibility that provinces can use to modify the program and meet the needs of their respective farmers.

All provincial insurance plans are developed through consultations with the federal government, provincial government and producers. Each plan is specific to the product or commodity it covers and the risks associated with that product, be it corn, cucumbers, wheat, soybeans or sugar beets. If we are given the opportunity to develop more plans, we will work in close collaboration with farmers and colleagues in the federal government to determine how to best work within the federal framework to support Ontario farmers. When crop insurance first began, there were less than 10 commodities covered, but now production insurance is available to almost 90 commercially grown crops.

Growing Forward 2 is a five-year policy framework for the national agricultural and agri-food sector. It is an investment by federal, provincial and territorial governments, and it is the foundation for government agricultural programs and services. In 2013, the federal and provincial governments jointly developed a protocol under Growing Forward 2 that established criteria for the introduction of potential production insurance plans for livestock. Today, we are taking a very positive step forward making good on that commitment by continuing the evolution of production insurance in Ontario by offering the proposed Agriculture Insurance Act.

In 2003, the federal and provincial governments realized the current system of agricultural business supports in Canada needed to be refined, as programming was not suitable for Canadian farmers. Because of this, a single policy framework was created. From there, the agricultural policy framework was developed as a five-year agreement. The framework has been very successful and has had its own evolution. The agreement was revised and renewed twice: once in 2008 as Growing Forward and again in 2013 as Growing Forward 2.

In the past and even today, Mr. Speaker, we have been reactionary in our responses to agricultural crises. When a crisis happens, we address it at the time and we provide adequate supports. But there’s a better way to handle agricultural crises and producers’ need for support. We can be more proactive and not always reactive. We may not be able to predict the events that negatively impact the agricultural sector, but we can be prepared to help if and when they do occur.

How does Ontario’s current production insurance measure up to what’s available in other provinces and other countries? Within Canada every province except Ontario has the authority to offer production insurance plans for agricultural products beyond crops and perennial plants, so expanding production insurance in Ontario would bring us in line with the rest of the provinces. South of the border, the 2014 US farm bill placed more emphasis on insurance and eliminated direct payments to producers.

Expansion would help to level the playing field for our producers so that Ontario’s agricultural sector can compete nationally and globally. The proposed amendments will, if enacted, put us on an equal footing with producers across the country and with many of our global competitors.

Now is the time to move forward with these changes and to do so with haste. Mr. Speaker, we know how we got to where we are today. The question that remains is, where do we go next? To develop and implement a new production insurance plan, we have work to do.

Our first step would be at the operational level. We would develop a potential production insurance plan by working with Agricorp. Agricorp, as you know, is one of our crown agencies, which currently offers production insurance to Ontario’s farmers on behalf of the federal and provincial governments. We would work with Agricorp and stakeholders to determine the needs of producers for that specific commodity. As with any type of business investment, the cost will be a very important factor to consider.

Production insurance premiums are designed to be affordable. They are cost-shared among the federal and provincial governments and producers. Farmers with all levels of experience, whether they are starting out or have been farming for decades, will have access to these production insurance plans. The majority of producers currently enrolled in production insurance plans are small to mid-sized family farms.

As with the existing production insurance plans, any new plans would likely have to include some type of minimum production levels in order to qualify for assistance. If a new plan were to be developed, we would work with industry to set production levels that make sense for the sector, and for producers and stakeholders in Ontario. Every step of the way, we would collaborate and consult with our stakeholders.

The development of any new plan would consider all segments of the agri-food sector to ensure any potential barriers to entry are identified and addressed. We don’t want the cost of insurance to be a barrier of entry to farmers. New production insurance plans won’t work or be beneficial if no one can afford them.

Mr. Speaker, colleagues, expanding production insurance is the next step in the evolution of our business risk management programming for Ontario’s agricultural sector. It helps farmers grow by giving them affordable, predictable and comprehensive coverage in the event of a disastrous year; it brings our farmers in line with the rest of Canadian farmers; and it allows the government to plan and manage its finances in a very reasonable manner.

I’m particularly delighted that we’re bringing forward this plan now. As many of you may have heard before, I’ve talked about my grandfather Major General Arthur Potts, who was a professor of dairy husbandry at the University of Saskatchewan. Growing up, my grandfather would often talk about the risks associated in livestock moving forward, and I know my grandfather would be delighted that we’re moving forward with a piece of legislation such as this.

Expanding production insurance is the right thing to do for Ontario farmers and all consumers, including those in the riding of Beaches–East York.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments? The member from Leeds–Grenville.

Mr. Steve Clark: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and good morning. I’m pleased to provide a couple of minutes of comments on the minister’s opening statement, and as well to the member from the great agricultural riding of Beaches–East York, the parliamentary assistant.

This is a bill, as has been stated earlier, that amends the Crop Insurance Act. As the opposition House leader, I have a lot of meetings with the government. I was shocked yesterday that finally the government has started to think about travelling bills around the province. They have time-allocated every bill they’ve had, and finally, in a meeting yesterday, the government House leader indicated that he would like Bill 40 to have some travel time in January and February. I certainly support that.

I guess I’m going to ask a question, because that’s what we do in these two minutes, questions and comments. I’m going to ask a question, Speaker, through you, to the parliamentary assistant. I hope he answers it.

I would like you to come to Kemptville for some of these hearings on Bill 40. You’ve allowed a decision to take place by the University of Guelph to close Kemptville campus. You’ve got thousands and thousands of farmers all across the province who want to grow the agri-food business, who want their sons and daughters to have an agriculture education that’s close to home.

If you’re going to put an ag bill on the table, and if you’re really truly committed to hearing from stakeholders, you will travel this bill to communities like Kemptville and you will allow the committee to see the good work that’s being done at that campus, to see what the future of agriculture can be with regional campuses that provide great education and also allow the sons and daughters of our agri-food community to go home to the farm on the weekend after they do their studies so that they can help out.

That’s the type of agri-food industry that Progressive Conservatives want, and that’s the type of consultation that I think Bill 40 needs.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Vanthof: It’s always an honour to stand in this House, but today it’s a particular honour because talking about agriculture is one of my favourite subjects. I would like to talk on behalf of my caucus on Bill 40 and respond to both the minister and his parliamentary assistant.

I noticed that, in his comments, the parliamentary assistant said he was delighted and he was happy to be moving with haste. Well, this was first agreed to, to increase it to other crops, at a fed-prov meeting in 2003, I believe. This government, or variations of this government, have been in power for 11 years, and it was agreed to at a fed-prov meeting in 2003, and they are now moving with haste. As the minister was speaking, he quoted something I said in response to his ministerial statement. I said to the member from London–Fanshawe: “Is that a good thing if the minister quotes you, or not?”

They’re moving with haste, because crop insurance, production insurance, is one of the cornerstones of our system. It has been in place for 50 years. We are behind the eight ball from other provinces. Once again, all the other provinces have this. This government’s been in power for 11, 12 years, and they’re moving with haste.

In following the House leader from the Tories, I hope that they indeed do travel with this bill because having meetings in Toronto regarding crop insurance—and most of our customers are around Toronto, I would agree with that, but only having meetings in Toronto regarding crop insurance would be utter folly.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Yvan Baker: It’s an honour to speak to this bill and to second the movement of this bill by the member from Beaches–East York.

I am elected from a riding in suburban Toronto, Etobicoke Centre. We saw recently—last year—what the impact can be of extreme weather events in our community. When I was knocking on doors during this campaign, I met countless numbers of folks who were impacted by the floods that impacted us. Actually, it was about a year ago, almost to the day, around Christmastime last year. Some people in my community were covered by insurance, but many weren’t. Many thought they were covered, but it turned out that they weren’t. So I can appreciate first-hand how important this bill is, and how important this topic is.

Business risk management programs, like production insurance, help producers deal with situations that are outside of their control, like those floods I talked about, like weather, disease, and extreme market fluctuations, and make timely payments to producers and eliminate the need for costly, ad hoc responses to adverse conditions. By giving producers greater opportunity to access production insurance, we will help them better manage risk and encourage greater innovation, job creation and growth in the agri-food sector.

Our agri-food sector is tremendously important, not just, of course, to those communities that are directly impacted by the jobs that the sector creates, but also to those communities that all of us live in, in all 107 ridings. And Etobicoke Centre is included in that.

I’m incredibly proud to be standing here today. I think this a responsible approach. I think this is a critical topic, not just for our agricultural communities but for all Ontarians, and I hope that we can count on the members opposite to support the bill as well.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jim McDonell: I’m pleased to stand and provide some information back on the comments on this bill. I look forward to finally extending it over—I think as our member from the north in the third party said, it’s been 12 years. I guess that is haste for this government.

My first thought, after hearing what she said—I said that this can’t be true. But of course the next day at a noon, it was confirmed. It’s hard to think that this government has any real direction in agriculture. One day they say one thing and the next day their actions speak differently. We see this over and over again.

We’re really interested to see if they will travel around and talk to the agricultural community over the next few months. We have the opportunity over January and February, when it’s a little slower in the ag industry; the farmers are available, the House is not sitting. We’re encouraging them to get around and talk to the community and listen to how important other things in the ag industry are.

If she really is genuinely interested in growing that industry, we’re going to need well-educated farmers who attend local colleges that allow them to actually work during their college time back in their own communities. They’ve lost that in eastern Ontario, one of the major hubs, so let’s see if they’re willing to listen and actually take this around the province.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Beaches–East York has two minutes.

Mr. Arthur Potts: Thank you very much, members for Leeds–Grenville, Timiskaming–Cochrane, Etobicoke Centre and Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry, for your comments on the bill.

I am delighted to hear that we will be travelling this bill out. I look forward to participating in that and hearing from farmers all across the province. I wouldn’t presume as to where the committee will be going—we’ll leave that up to the committee—but I appreciate their suggestions as to where the committee should go and listen.

I particularly want to address the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane. It’s fantastic that he has pointed out that it has been 12 years. I’d like to point out, of course, that in those 12 years there was a different member for Beaches–East York. As he notes, the great agricultural riding of Beaches–East York was commented on earlier. Maybe that was the big change in the last 12 years in this government, that there’s a different member from the wonderful riding of Beaches–East York.

I would celebrate that it has only been a scant six months since I had the pleasure of being elected to this House following the last election and being appointed as the parliamentary assistant to agriculture. Maybe that is the key ingredient as to why we’re finally able to move forward with this—as you so rightly point out, it has been time—because the time is right, Mr. Speaker. We want to move forward on this bill.

In honour of my grandfather, a great member of the agricultural community in his own right and after whom I was named—he would be very proud to look down on his grandson saying, “Yes, we’re moving forward on livestock plans for production insurance.”

Thank you to the previous member for Beaches–East York who, in his capacity, wasn’t able to influence the government the way I have been able to for the great riding of Beaches–East York.

As we know, in Beaches–East York, farmers feed cities, but cities enrich farmers, and there’s a very fundamental nexus, a connection between the urban needs from the farming community and the farming community’s needs from urban communities. I have been able to make that connection between Beaches–East York and the wonderful agricultural communities which so many of you represent and many of my own colleagues represent.

Interjection: Two more minutes.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I can’t say thanks to that.

Further debate.

Mr. Toby Barrett: I certainly welcome the opportunity. Government members and the minister have actually given me lots of time. I thought they would have addressed this in more detail. However, this is a pretty short bill. In fact, all it does is change the name of a title. Let’s call it enabling legislation.

We’ve been discussing this among our PC caucus. It came up several times yesterday, not only production insurance and the need for production insurance to expand to other commodities, but also the need for this government to do something about bee mortality, insurance for bees.

There’s no question on expansion of production insurance, in this case changing the name of “crop insurance” to “agricultural insurance.” It is long overdue to shove this into other agricultural commodities. There are questions being raised, and the minister acknowledged that. Questions are swirling with regard to the government’s announcement to amend the Crop Insurance Act, 1996—I know there were at least two of us in this Legislature who were there in 1996—and to create this new Bill 40, the Agriculture Insurance Act.

I support the views of my colleagues and the third party that when you bring in agricultural legislation, you do have to talk to farmers. You’ve got to get out into rural Ontario. We could have hearings in Etobicoke; we could have hearings in the Beaches—or the Beach. When I worked in Toronto, it was called the Beaches. Anyway, let’s have hearings in Clinton. Let’s have hearings in Kemptville. I’ve heard Kemptville mentioned several times. Down my way, let’s have hearings in Delhi or Cayuga. Let’s go up to the Clay Belt and have hearings in that part of Ontario.

There are questions to raise. I raised questions earlier on in my response to the announcement of this legislation. First question: Is there going to be a premium holiday? There are always the early adopters of any agricultural program. How do we encourage those who may not be convinced that this is worth them putting up the premium money, even though it will be supported under the crop insurance model by both the federal and the provincial government? How do we encourage farmers to buy into this new program when it is implemented? I assume it’s going to be implemented. All we have now is a piece of legislation that changes the name of the old legislation.

How easy is it going to be for farmers to fill out the forms? Are they going to have to hire a chartered accountant? Of course, the very large farm operations are usually advised to use a chartered accountant anyway, but how easy will it be for farmers to forecast the amount of money that may be coming? That’s something their bank will want to know. How easy will it be for farmers to forecast the timing of the payments? Can the payments be processed rapidly to get them into the hands of producers and get them there quickly? Will the calculations for this program be clear? Will they be transparent, easily understandable?

I used to buy crop insurance a number of years ago. I grew corn with my partner—corn, soybeans, winter wheat. I grew alfalfa. I always used crop insurance. The people who looked after us on crop insurance would come over to the house. It was a ritual, a tradition. You’d sit around the kitchen table. Les Van Trigt was my crop insurance agent, and he was just two farms over, actually, from my dad’s farm, and four farms over from my farm. We talked about everything except crop insurance during those meetings. I trusted he knew how to work it out. He had my figures.

Crop insurance, by and large, over the years—we’ve had it for decades—has worked out well, so we can hit the ground running by expanding this to other agricultural commodities, because we’re building on a fairly firm foundation. But bear in mind that when you make a change to a system—it doesn’t matter whether it’s a corporation, a factory, a government institution—any change that you introduce into a system—I think there’s management theory on this—has a ripple effect. It will affect other aspects, other facets, of the broader system. Bringing in production insurance, for example, for cattle may well have an impact on corn growers or the bean guys. It’s a concern.

There’s going to be additional money required from both the provincial and federal levels. Where does that money come from? We certainly do not want to see a situation where, to accommodate the extra draw from this program, especially if we had a disaster like BSE, or PED in hogs, we are going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Oftentimes, Peter has concerns about that, and even Paul, when it gets out of hand. It also raises the issue of, “Wait a minute. This isn’t fair. This isn’t right.” We have to look at the big picture—again, another reason to support hearings.

I’ve certainly talked to livestock guys, cattlemen and pork producers about this idea. But I’ve also talked to the cash crop guys. I’ve talked to people who have the existing program.

First of all, I’m not saying this will be a threat, but there’s only so much money to go around. We know that in the United States, there is a concerted effort from the Obama administration to get a handle on the tremendous cost—a cost in the billions of dollars—of safety net programs in the United States. Two years ago, safety net programs in the United States came in at a cost of $14 billion. Even in the largest, most robust economy in the world, $14 billion for farmers is quite a draw. There were weather-related issues there and price issues. Last year, it dropped down to a $6-billion draw.

We as legislators, decision-makers within this government, have to be cognizant of where the money will be coming from.

But there’s no question—and we in the PC caucus recognize the value of production insurance. It lends a hand, obviously, for farmers to deal with losses from natural events like weather, pests or disease.

As I mentioned, the production insurance costs are shared by the producers, the provincial government and the federal government. The farmer pays 40%, the provincial government contributes 24%, and the federal government contributes 36%. In my mind—maybe this is a guy thing—it’s a fairly easy ratio to remember, 40-24-36. Just visualise that, Speaker. That’s how I keep that ratio clear in my mind.

We know that in Ontario, production insurance is currently available for something like 90 commercially grown crops: obviously, the grain and oilseeds—that’s corn and soy; winter wheat, tree fruit, grapes, vegetables, forage—members were just talking about forage a minute ago—and the specialty crops. Ginseng has been brought in. Honey, for example, is covered under the crop insurance program.

If we’re now going to expand this to other commodities in the livestock area, this is breaking somewhat new ground, as Minister Leal just said in his opening remarks. We didn’t get a one-hour speech, but we did get some opening remarks, backed up by the member from the Beaches.

A lot of questions still remain, and I do wish to raise some of these questions, Speaker.

One thing that first came to my mind was on the hog front: What about the big problems we saw a number of years ago with young hog farmers? They took a tremendous hit on the price front. We have ups and downs in the hog business. The young farmers, or the beginning farmers, who didn’t have a track record, if you will—I think this was partly a federal problem—very simply, they didn’t get the money. They lost the money, but under the structure of that safety net program, they were unable to be reimbursed. I know there are about 100 beginning and young hog farmers who have been very active on this front for years. They’ve been getting nowhere.

I think of the Bartels brothers down my way. I visited their hog operation. They had switched from dairy, brought in a tremendous amount of capital and built two very large hog barns—these are not inexpensive—to put up a brand new hog operation. Then they got hit with the low prices. They weren’t compensated. Retired farmers, hog farmers who had retired a number of years ago—even hog farmers who were deceased—received money through that program. Our young, beginning, very technically savvy farmers were left out in the cold.

We’re going to see this program available, ideally, to everybody if they pay the premium and they qualify, but you’re not going to see retroactive pay with that particular problem.

Many of us have read the Auditor General’s report that came out on Agricorp a number of years ago regarding the overpayments to farmers, in excess of $24 million. It really is unfortunate when something like that happens. When that money is received, it usually gets spent right away; farmers reinvest back into their plant and equipment. The question is, is this going to prevent those kinds of boondoggles from happening? I will say that I have a lot of respect for Agricorp; they’ve had an awful lot of new programs dumped on them. They run a good shop, and they have made tremendous improvements, and quite rapidly, with respect to their response to the Auditor General’s report.

My first thought was, “Is this going to be a whole farm program?” Again, we have the opportunity now; we’re opening up that Crop Insurance Act from 1996. This isn’t going to be like AgriStability, and we know AgriStability has just been separated out from business risk management. The focus is on animal producers, and it’s obviously using the model of crop insurance.

Will it be margin-based? Again, there are other jurisdictions we can all look at to see how they’ve developed the programs. Manitoba has developed a similar framework. I went back, with respect to crop insurance—for many of us it’s a fairly easy principle to understand. The hope is that for livestock it will be similar. I think the assumption is that it’s going to be similar to crop insurance.

I keep raising this question: Can the farmers do all the paperwork themselves? Do they have to hire an accountant? Let’s make this program as straightforward as possible. Obviously, the larger operations have to run their books through an accountant anyway. On many farms, it’s beyond the ability of somebody’s husband or somebody’s wife to be able to do the books with, really, the gigantic growth of some of the farm operations.

As I mentioned, is this going to pull money away from existing programs? Is it new money? My understanding is that this program will be funded by new money so, obviously, new money is coming from the farmers themselves. This is premium-based. The farmer contributes, and this certainly helps with respect to any challenge on the international front, if it’s countervailable or what have you. We’re in good stead there.

We look to other jurisdictions; we look to the United States. I’ve asked this question: Do they have livestock insurance down there? Nobody seems to know. I’ve asked the government side to take a look at this. I know there are some limited livestock programs in the United States for ranchers. My family raised cattle in California and in the high desert in Oregon, where there is no water, basically. In the spring there is, but you have to travel your herd a long way to find water. I know my cousin, every year, moves his herd in a big 70-mile circle.

That’s kind of going from Port Dover to Stoney Creek and maybe over to Kitchener–Waterloo. That’s what he does. He and his son sit on horses looking for water.

California: the last time I was out there, the state caught on fire. It was unbelievable, and it hasn’t gotten any better since. So there are US government programs for ranchers for drought, those kinds of disaster programs for livestock. They’re federal government programs.

I would like to talk just a little bit about what we do have in Ontario with respect to crop insurance, or production insurance. About 14,000 farmers in the province—this was, let’s see, last year—signed up for crop insurance. That’s insurance coverage for five million acres in the province of Ontario. That seems like an awfully large acreage. I know when we were actively farming, we had 600 acres—that’s six farms, basically—at the time. Five million acres, that’s significant for farmers.

For the provincial government and the federal government to come up with a risk management program to cover the perils of the diseases, insects, fungus and nematodes, and weather-related events: hail, flooding, wet weather and that early snowfall that we had quite recently here—that’s a lot of acres.

I think it’s regrettable that this legislation has been introduced, and here we are debating it already. Meanwhile, the cash crop guys are still out there trying to figure out what to do with their snow beans. I guess I called them “snow beans.” That was a Freudian slip. The soybeans, and many of the beans that I’ve looked at on my crop tours, especially on the heavier land, seemed to only be about eight or nine inches high. But we had more snow than that on top of them, so they’re done.

Corn: Sure, you’ve got all winter to get the corn off. That’s the way we used to take corn off many years ago. But it has a very high moisture content. Some of it is just being chopped up for silage, for livestock feed. That’s difficult to do down in the southwest, down Essex and Chatham way. There’s not a lot of livestock down that way. So it’s a very tough year for farmers right now as we speak.

We’re in here in a nice warm building. This is the kind of work that, by and large, as Bob Bailey would say, is inside work and no heavy lifting. Our farmers, our cash crop guys, right now are out there in the mud trying to keep their combines going, trying to unplug their combines. Maybe they’re lying on their back trying to pull out the main gear—and I’ve gone through all of this. We had to do that once: You’re covered in mud, and the hydraulic fluid comes down on top of you. That’s what they’re doing right now.

I don’t know whether they’ve had the opportunity yet to really do much thinking about this new livestock insurance program and how that might affect those who are in the cash crop business or in the fruit and vegetable business. Many farms are trying to finish up before Christmas, and have an awful lot on their minds. Then of course, they will spend the Christmas holidays dealing with all the paperwork and the red tape and gearing up for income tax time.

So we do have a program. We’ve got a model to follow. It covers five million acres.

South of the border, they have a program. They have safety net programs. To give you perspective on Ontario agriculture compared to what’s going on down in Ohio and Illinois and North Carolina and California: US crop insurance covers 295 million acres. We cover five million. Two years ago, the US safety net programs’ costs came in to the taxpayer at $14 billion. We have to set up our programs to ensure that we remain competitive.

When I would sell corn or soybeans—in the early 1980s, I was selling soybeans for about what farmers are selling them for right now. My price was determined by the Chicago Board of Trade. It’s the same market. It moves back and forth across the border.

Here’s a government that’s talking about banning neonics on 80% of the acreage in the province of Ontario. They use neonics to grow corn in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Iowa, in those big cash crop states; the same with soybeans. We import corn and soybeans from the United States. We will continue to import corn and soybeans from the United States that are grown using neonics. We have to square that; we’ve got to deal with that. We can ban neonics on 80% of the acreage in Ontario, but does it make sense to bring in corn from our competitors who use neonics to grow it? How does that help the bees in Iowa? How does that help the bees in Illinois?

We do know that farmers, certainly hog farmers, have had their concerns, and they’ve long asked that production insurance—the plans—move beyond just crops and include insurance for other agricultural products. The agricultural sector does need production insurance, not just crop insurance. As we know—and the members opposite have had 11 years to deal with this—Ontario is the only province so far that does not have legislation enabling this to happen.

I mentioned Agricorp. Production insurance is delivered by a crown agency in the province of Ontario. It’s called Agricorp. It was set up by the Mike Harris government back in 1996, and it’s backed by the crop insurance fund. The value of the fund fluctuates from year to year, obviously, depending on crop damage and the value of claims coming in. It depends also on the premiums coming in from farmers themselves.

I’ll mention that crop insurance in the United States is administered and implemented, or dispensed, through private insurance companies. I think there are about 11 very large private insurance companies that do the legwork with respect to the to-and-fro of crop insurance down there.

Like any large insurance program, Agricorp purchases reinsurance, private reinsurance. You need reinsurance, and anybody who has been involved in the insurance business would know that. I sat on the board of an insurance company for a number of years. It’s a risk management tool. Insurance is risk management. Reinsurance is risk management for the insurance companies themselves or, in this case, the government—in this case, Agricorp. We have to protect the province. We have to protect the taxpayer from undue financial exposure.

Existing production insurance is triggered when a producer’s actual production falls below their guaranteed production. We trust that this legislation will provide an adequate response if and when we have a real disaster.

BSE never did get into humans in North America, to my knowledge. I don’t think it was over here; it was out west. We paid the price. I’ve lost half my cattlemen; I’ve lost half the cattle herd in Haldimand county over the last 10 years. In the province of Ontario, we’ve lost half our herd. The number of head has been cut in half. If something like that came through—we’ve all been discussing the recent statistics on bee mortality. Our pork industry and the PED virus—cold weather is upon us. That could trigger yet another onslaught of PED on our hog farms. We know that, to date, we’ve lost 30% of Ontario’s pork-producing capacity because of PED.

We know that Ontario Pork, their organization, has stressed the need for the province to come up with some mortality insurance, or to at least look at their request. We now have this enabling legislation. It’s not going to help those hog farmers, those young guys, those beginning farmers who got nailed back in 2007, but the hog industry, I would feel, would buy into this.

It has to make a good business case to make it worth their while, of course, and they’re going to want to see transparency; I think the minister made mention of the importance of stability in the program; and obviously bankability—the bank wants to know whether you’ve got insurance coverage or not before they hand over the money. And all concerned need predictability as far as, when does the money come back and how much will it be. Again—and I’ll repeat—we can’t draw money from other farm programs to fund this one, and I feel I’ve been assured by the government this isn’t going to happen.

If we follow that crop insurance model—we’ve been doing it for years and years. As I mentioned, Agricorp was established in January 1997 under the Ministry of Agriculture, and it covers a constellation of programs. I think perhaps we have asked Agricorp to take on too much in a hurry on occasion with so many of these ad hoc programs and business risk management. Certainly on this side of the Legislature, we all fought for that. I’ve said before that I attended just about every tractor rally across the province of Ontario during those winters that we were trying to get that one through.

We know that in 2008, Auditor General Jim McCarter concluded that Agricorp was having difficulty adapting to these rapid changes that were being imposed on them with the substantial growth in the number of farm support programs. There was a doubling of the annual support payments to farmers during that time. This challenged Agricorp’s ability to deliver farm support programs in an efficient way, let alone an effective way, and in a transparent way.

So here we are; we’ve got enabling legislation. So far, all it does is change the title of the bill. As the minister admitted, Ontario is the only province without the legislative authority to offer production insurance for a wide variety of agricultural products. During the BSE time, this government had to come up with ad hoc money—that’s not based on farmer premiums, by the way; that comes directly from the taxpayer—and they had to do it in a hurry, or we could have really lost—who knows? The whole industry could have collapsed.

This came from the federal government as well, so that cost taxpayers something like $130 million. This is a model where the risk, if you will, was shared by the farmer himself through premiums, again going back to that ratio, 40-24-36.

Ad hoc programs are not the best way to do it. You try to wrap them up as soon as you can—the plum pox virus program, for example. We need a better model, and we do have to work with farmers in the commodity organizations to make sure we do get this one right.

The new plan needs that kind of predictability. Farmers need to be able to forecast the amount of payments, the timing of the payments. In the event of another crisis like BSE, they’d have to know how much money is coming and the timing. They are keeping their creditors at bay, they are dealing with their banks, and we can do an awful lot through a good program to lift that load off the producers’ back.

I sincerely hope this program doesn’t morph into another gigantic red tape exercise. Farmers already face enough red tape as it is, forms to fill out, i’s to dot and t’s to cross. The calculations have got to be clear; they’ve got to be transparent. Participants need to get a detailed yet easy-to-understand statement.

The question remains: What commodities are going to be covered? We assume beef, cattle; we assume hogs; we assume honey bees. I just listened to the Minister of Agriculture, I listened to the parliamentary assistant present this, and there was no mention of bees. There is a need for bee insurance. Mortality insurance for bees—that’s something the government can do. I don’t hear any direct practical ideas; I certainly didn’t hear it this morning, coming across, with respect to assisting bees.

What about racehorses? Will a program like this cover the horse racing industry? They had the carpet pulled out from under them, under this present government, ending the Slots at Racetracks Program, again, to pay for runaway spending on the part of this government. Horse farms have gone bankrupt. I’ve seen the for sale signs up and down in my riding. Horses have been euthanized. I don’t know how many horses have been killed, the young ones hit in the head when they’re born because they just can’t afford to look after them over the years. Is this going to cover horses?

I was quite intrigued: The parliamentary assistant mentioned his grandfather’s involvement. I think you mentioned the University of Guelph. I spent five years at Guelph; I finally graduated from the Ontario Agricultural College—I explain to people in my riding that I spent five years at Guelph because I was a slow learner, but I did get a master of science degree.

Interjection.

Mr. Toby Barrett: People probably didn’t hear that interjection.

The parliamentary assistant made mention of his grandfather. In spite of the tremendous growth in this particular city, for example, our roots are in agriculture. I attended the Ontario Agricultural College; my father attended the Ontario Agricultural College with a degree in animal husbandry. My father used to teach a beekeeping course, actually, at one time. My grandfather attended the Ontario Agricultural College. He took the famous short courses, back in the day—that could be part of a resolution for this Kemptville crisis.

My great-grandfather attended not the Ontario Agricultural College but the Ontario Veterinary College, OVC. We still have his black veterinarian’s bag. I just use my family as an example.

We can get it right in the province of Ontario, because we have this tremendous background in agriculture in this part of the world—not just in my riding, down on the sand plain and the Haldimand clay, but we’re blessed with the soil types, the climates, the microclimates, the know-how, the knowledge of mechanics and agronomy and the knowledge of how to deal with farm labour and machinery, not only turning a wrench on a combine, but knowing how to deal with a GPS system on the combine as well.

My time may be drawing a to a close. I wish I had more time. I guess I’ll get to speak after we break. But I do want to talk a little about bees. I want to talk specifically, in the context of this legislation, about bee mortality insurance. That’s something the government can do. There’s been lots of talk about bees, and it’s been all talk. We have government for a reason. You have power, as other provinces have done, to bring in a bee insurance program. On our side of the House—I can’t divulge what we talk about in caucus, but this came up on two different agenda items yesterday during our caucus meeting.

We are very concerned about bee mortality. We in caucus have proposals. If I have time, I will walk through some of these proposals right now to help our beekeepers.

I have a personal interest. On our farms, we’ve had bees for 38 years. Fraser McClung in, I guess it was 1976—I took over one of my grandfather’s farms. He brought his supers in. This guy knew bees. He just recently passed away. That spring, the first thing we did was we went out and planted pussy willows all over that part of the farm. Pussy willows, as you know, come up very early in the spring. His bees came out and they needed food. He didn’t put sugar through his hives. He was a naturalist. He was a fantastic guy.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Do they need acidic soil?

Mr. Toby Barrett: Well, this was on clay. Oh, pussy willows? These pussy willows did very well. These pussy willows are now 38 years old. I’ve had to cut some of them down. You just stick the shoot in the ground. It’s like planting willow. They come up in the spring, as we know. One of the first things you see are the pussy willows. Bees like that.

We have a lot of black locusts on my farm. That’s why he moved his hives to my farm. This is bee management. It wasn’t monoculture. We have a lot of gully land. At that time, we had taken 200 acres out of production to plant trees, but the trees weren’t up yet, so there was lots of goldenrod, lots of weeds. Bees love that kind of stuff. We probably need more weeds in the city to attract bees.

There’s something every one of us can do—something people can do in Etobicoke and the Beaches: Let your front lawn go into weeds and get the bees in there.

If you want to do something about bees, let’s do something practical. In the context of this legislation, let’s do something practical to help our beekeepers.

We are aware that other provinces have bee mortality and overwintering insurance. Alberta has a program. Manitoba has a program. Saskatchewan is working on a program.

Alberta has a similar program to Manitoba. They’re looking after their beekeepers through an insurance program.

Here we are debating changes to the Crop Insurance Act (Ontario), 1996. We in the PC caucus ask this government to implement the Manitoba program or take a look at it. Take a look at the Alberta program.

If you’re hesitant, take a look at Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan is doing a pilot project. Saskatchewan is setting up a somewhat similar program. It’s a three-year pilot to help their beekeepers. This is government helping beekeepers who are suffering very high mortality rates. The Saskatchewan program seems to be modelled on the Manitoba and Alberta programs.

So here’s an opportunity for the province of Ontario to hit the ground running. We had tremendous losses—like I say, we’ve had bees on our farm for 38 years. Down in the Norfolk area—tremendous bee mortality back in 2007. There were no neonics then. I think it was crop-related. At my constit office, I got to know all the large beekeepers in my area.

I’ve just received word from our Speaker to wrap this up.

I will say that we in the caucus have had a lot of discussions about this production insurance program, and we think it can be made to work. The farmers seem confident that we, as legislators, and of course staff and Agricorp can come up with a good program. I just leave this with you—we’ve been discussing the bee issue over and over again, going back for the last 14 months—bring in a bee insurance program. It’s a practical thing government can do for bee mortality.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Just before I break, I’d like to thank the member from Haldimand–Norfolk for his extensive knowledge in agriculture. I found the bee discussion very interesting. Thanks so much, and it’s great to have that kind of knowledge in the House.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): This House stands recessed until 10:30 this morning.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Today our page captain is Noah Westwater. I’d like all members of the House to say hello to his family. His mother, Susan Westwater; his father, Bruce Westwater; his sister, Brooke Westwater; and his grandmother, Carol Kirkwood, have all joined us here this morning. Please welcome them.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I’d like to welcome members of the Ontario Principals’ Council who are here today at Queen’s Park, as well as the members of the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance. There are a number of those members who are coming in the door right now. I wish that everybody would give a warm welcome to all of them.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to welcome members from the Action, Research and Change Group to End Violence Against Women. We have with us Kathy Campbell, Leighann Burns, Paula Valois, Lee-Ann Lee, Michelle Moody, Eileen Morrow, and an anonymous survivor who has joined us here at Queen’s Park. I want to thank them for all their hard work. Thank you very much. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I too would like to welcome the members of the Ontario Principals’ Council, particularly John Hamilton—where did he go? I don’t think he’s here yet—the current president, a whole bunch of past presidents, and Ian McFarlane, who’s the executive director, who’s also lost in transit but I’m sure will appear. Welcome, all of you.

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: It’s a pleasure to welcome to the House Rebecca Little, who represents the University of Waterloo Federation of Students. Prior to going to school, she hailed from Huron–Bruce.

Ms. Daiene Vernile: It’s a pleasure to introduce fourth-year University of Waterloo student Stéphane Hamade. He is here representing the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance. Welcome to all of you who are here today.

Mr. Yvan Baker: There are a few folks I would like to introduce today. I’m honoured to have in the Legislature with us my father, Donald Baker. I wouldn’t be here without him, Speaker, in more ways than one.

I would also like to thank our page captain, Maja Toman, and her mother and father, who are here: her mother, Aleksandra Glisic, and her father, Tibor Toman. Please welcome them.

I would also like to second the Minister of Education’s welcome. We had a number of folks from the Ontario Principals’ Council visit my office this morning: John Hamilton, the president; Jeff McKibbon; and Ian McFarlane. We’d like to welcome them as well.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’d like to welcome a number of representatives from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance. With us this morning we have Sean Madden, Jasmine Irwin, Matt Hefland, Jen Carter, Roland Erman and Zachary Rose.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m delighted to welcome Dr. Eric Marsden from the Marsden Centre of Naturopathic Excellence. He bought, at a silent auction, the right to come here. I didn’t mention that it was free anyway, but thank you and welcome, Dr. Marsden.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I’d like to welcome—they’ll be in in just a moment—a number of students from the University of Western Ontario PC campus association—

Interjections.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I knew that would excite the Liberals over there, Mr. Speaker—Ron Bertolo, Pamela Bialik, Marisa Breeze, Andrew Esser, Sophia Helpard, Piercon Knezic, Mattheu Kok, Patrick Mair, Kayla Tiller, Landon Tulk, Alex van der Wal, Gregory Wilford, Jesse Wray and Richard Sookraj. I’d like to welcome those students as they come in the building.

Ms. Sarah Campbell: I am pleased to welcome the members of ARC—Action, Research and Change to End Violence Against Women—including some survivors, advocates and activists who are working for change. Some of the participants joining us today are Leighann Burns, Lee-Ann Lee, Paula Valois, Eileen Morrow, Kathy Campbell, Michelle Moody and other survivors. They are here for the release of their report on the implementation of the Domestic Violence Death Review Committee.

Mr. Peter Z. Milczyn: I’d also like to welcome my cousin Richard Sookraj, who is here with the University of Western Ontario Conservatives. I don’t hold that against him.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I’m happy to welcome to Queen’s Park a good friend of mine, Jim Karahalios. Jim and his family ran a fish-and-chips shop in Toronto for almost 50 years. I’d like to welcome him to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I also want to welcome the members of the Automotive Industries Association of Canada. Today we have with us Marc Brazeau, the president; France Daviault, senior director; Jason Kerr, director; and members Diane Freeman, John Cochrane, Tony Canade, and Tony Del Vasto. I welcome them to Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have with us today, in the Speaker’s gallery, Mr. Jeong-sik Kang, the consul general of the Republic of Korea, who is accompanied by Deputy Consul General Sang Soo Lee and Consul Byungjun Kim. Welcome to Queen’s Park, and thank you for being here.

Oral Questions

Taxation

Mr. Monte McNaughton: This morning my question is to the Premier. Premier, during his fall fiscal update, your Minister of Finance revealed that his revenue projections from just four months earlier were short by more than half a billion dollars. Your finance minister then tried to reassure Ontario taxpayers that he had the discipline to eliminate the deficit over the next three years. Then on November 18, we saw his real plan revealed when he refused to rule out once again raising taxes.

Premier, can you commit here this morning that your government will not be raising taxes yet again over the next three years?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The plan that we are implementing—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to start right off. If anyone interjects, I’m going to stop them.

Please carry on.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The plan that we are implementing is a balanced one and it has been laid out clearly. It was laid out in the budget when we introduced it in May, it was laid out in our platform and it was laid out in the budget that we brought back to the Legislature after the election. It’s very clear that we are limiting our spending, but at the same time we are investing in Ontario. We have committed to balancing and eliminating the deficit by 2017-18. We’re on path to do that. We have overachieved on our targets.

The reality is that there is a revenue challenge that we’re facing, but that makes it all the more important that we make those investments so that we can see that economic growth.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Back to the Premier: Your Minister of Finance’s fall fiscal update clearly stated that, should revenues fall further, he would look at other tools to balance the budget. Later, when asked by reporters five separate times if he would increase taxes, he avoided answering the questions entirely.

A responsible government should have a plan to balance a budget by living within its means. Your government appears determined to go ahead and raise taxes on hard-working Ontario families one more time.

Premier, is your finance minister committed to balancing the budget without raising taxes?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As I’ve said, our plan has been quite clearly laid out in the budget. We are implementing that. For five years in a row, Ontario has exceeded its deficit targets. It’s one of the only governments in Canada to have achieved this level of success. By exceeding our targets, our accumulated deficit is $25 billion lower than it would otherwise have been.

Let me talk about some of the other tools:

—cracking down on the underground economy, and that includes contraband tobacco;

—managing compensation costs, and we know that the President of the Treasury Board is actively engaged in that;

—making sure that businesses are paying their taxes, making sure that we’re getting all of that revenue; and

—correcting the vertical imbalance with the federal government. It’s very important that we work with the federal government to make sure that Ontario is getting its fair share.

We are working to maximize the value of our assets—that’s the work that Ed Clark and his commission have done—and we’re doing a program review across government. Those are the tools that we’re using.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Well, Premier, we have seen this act by your government before: promising a plan to balance the budget when no such plan actually exists, shifting the blame for the incompetent handling of Ontario’s fiscal situation onto everyone but those responsible, and then capping the irresponsible behaviour off with a tax increase on hard-working Ontario families.

When your Minister of Finance was asked if he would commit to avoiding further tax increases, he dodged the question altogether. Premier, again I ask you: Will you commit to a plan to balance the books without raising a single tax?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, our plan has been laid out very clearly, and the member opposite has chosen to ignore the answer. I just went through six initiatives that we are taking. One of them does talk about the federal government and the relationship with the federal government, but there are five others that are tools we are using to work our way to eliminating the deficit by 2017-18.

I have answered the question in terms of the path that we have laid out. That is the path that we are on. Those are the initiatives that we are taking. That is the way we will get to eliminating the deficit by 2017-18.

Taxation

Mr. Monte McNaughton: My second set of questions this morning is to the finance minister. Minister, on numerous occasions, you’ve been asked to clarify your plans to utilize what you have called “new revenue tools” in order to meet your campaign pledge to balance the budget within three years. Just this morning I asked the Premier three straightforward questions on the same subject, which she obviously refused to answer, so let’s distill this down to something even more basic.

Minister, you recently refused to rule out raising taxes to fix your government’s failing financial position. Can you answer this simple question: Will you commit that you will not raise the HST before the next election?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Oh, Mr. Speaker, this is great. The man who wants to be the leader of the party is looking at trying to show vision before the public and the people of Ontario. He is now trying to make things up as he goes.

We put forward a budget. We put forward a fall economic update. We’ve laid out very clearly what it is that we need to achieve by building a path to balance that talks about the integrity of our revenue, ensuring fairness in our tax system, making certain the underground economy is addressed and looking at the leakage in our system. At the same time, we’re looking at maximizing our assets to increase our dividends, we’re continuing to do our savings, finding ways to improve our overall expenses—which, by the way, has made Ontario the lowest-cost government in Canada because of the measures that we’ve taken. We’re going to continue doing that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Hard-working taxpayers of Ontario already pay their fair share of taxes. You owe it to them and everybody in the province to be crystal clear.

Minister, will you today rule out raising personal income taxes on Ontario workers between now and the next election?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Speaker, the member who’s asking the question—when he was the labour critic, his only plan was to fire 100,000 people. That is not what we’re doing. We’re trying to ensure that we support the system and invest—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Simcoe North will come to order.

Please finish.

Hon. Charles Sousa: As the member talks about right-to-work legislation and forcing people into lower—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m standing, please. If it happens again, you’ll be warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Charles Sousa: As the member opposite talks about right-to-work legislation, putting people in vulnerable positions in the lowest wages that are possible, we’re trying to find ways not only to control expenses by making our path to balance effective, but we’re also being fair by ensuring that we stimulate economic growth. That’s why we’re investing in people and their skills. That’s why we’re investing in modern infrastructure, creating over 100,000 jobs last year. And we are controlling—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Minister, as you know, my background is in small business. Small businesses employ the majority of workers in this province. Indeed, small and medium-sized businesses are the cornerstone of our local communities. They are also the backbone of Ontario’s economy.

Minister, will you today rule out raising taxes on small businesses between now and the next election?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Again, we have been supporting small business. In fact, it was that party that delayed the implementation of the elimination of the employee health tax for 90% of all businesses in Ontario. We have just passed the Better Business Climate Act that will reduce red tape. In fact, the CFIB has applauded the step that we’re taking in the right direction to support small business.

As I was saying just a moment ago, we have maintained the lowest and most dynamic taxes in North America.

Mr. John Yakabuski: You haven’t passed Bill 7 yet. You’d better get your notes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, come to order, second time.

Mr. John Yakabuski: You’d better get new briefing notes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew is warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Because of our attractive, dynamic tax system we have now become the top destination for foreign direct investment. More start-ups are happening in Ontario than anywhere else in Canada combined. We will continue to support businesses, we’ll continue to do what’s necessary to provide that integrity, and we’ll continue to do so even though the members opposite have actually voted against those measures.

Government services

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Affordable child care spaces in Ontario are closing and the response of the Liberal minister was, “I’m not really quite sure what the problem is.” Health care is being cut and people are feeling it, and the response of the Liberal minister was, “We are not making cuts.” People on social assistance have been left without support that they rely on and the response of the Liberal minister was that this is making “a mountain out of a very small molehill.”

The Liberals are looking more and more arrogant and out of touch by the day. Will the Premier acknowledge that people are being hurt by her budget and her ministers’ incompetence and insensitivity?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Obviously, I reject the premise of the question. What I will say is that I acknowledge that there are people in Ontario who are struggling; there are people in Ontario who are looking for child care. I understand that. That’s why it’s very important to me that the legislation that moves through this House is going to make child care safer and has the potential to create 6,000 new child care spaces.

I know that there are people in this province who are looking for care for their loved ones. That’s why we continue to increase the support for community care; we continue to increase the budget for community care so that people will get the health care that they need when they need it.

I know there were families who suffered because they didn’t get their cheques as quickly as they should have. That’s why the minister is working very hard to rectify that situation. That’s what I will acknowledge.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Liberals actually don’t seem to get it. Health care cuts are real, child care spaces have been closed in this province under their watch and the Liberal social assistance software rollout has been a Gong Show. These have had real impacts on the people of this province. Does the Premier get that people and families are suffering under her watch?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I understand that there is a complexity in making sure that 13.5 million people have the services they need. I understand that there are thousands of children in this province who have access to full-day kindergarten because of the policies we put in place. Some 470,000 children have benefited from full-day kindergarten as of this year. What I know is that that has helped families. That has helped families in every riding across this province.

Are there still people who are looking for the right child care arrangement for their children? Absolutely. We’re going to continue to work, including with the legislation that was just passed that will create 6,000 new safe child care spaces.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: There’s an old saying that you’re entitled to your own opinion, but you’re not entitled to your own facts. Health care services have been cut even though the Minister of Health denies it. Whether it’s cuts to home care in Windsor, fewer nurses or reducing access to operating rooms by half in local community hospitals, these are cuts—full stop.

Is the Premier going to continue to stand in this House and deny that health care services are being cut in Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Yes, I am, because that’s not the reality. The reality is that we continue to invest more money in health care, we continue to invest more money in the reduction of wait times for people across the system and we continue to invest more money in community care.

Is it complex to run a health care system for 13.5 million people? It absolutely is, Mr. Speaker. Is it necessary that we make changes so that we can transform that system so that it will be the best that it can be for the long term? Absolutely. So we’re going through a transformation, and if we were not to do that, then we would not be responsible.

It is easy for the leader of the third party to stand up and pick on a particular issue in a particular community. We have to rectify those, but our responsibility is also to deal with the whole system and make sure that it is functioning at the highest level.

Government services

Ms. Andrea Horwath: To the Premier: When Coronation Park Day Nursery in Sarnia shut its doors because of Liberal cuts, the minister said she didn’t understand the problem. Well, I went there. The problem is simple: There are no children at Coronation Park Day Nursery anymore.

The minister doesn’t seem to get what this means to families in Sarnia. Does the Premier understand, if her minister doesn’t—does the Premier at least understand why cutting child care spaces is a problem for families in Sarnia?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I don’t know the specifics of that particular situation. I know that the Minister of Education will want to comment. But let me just say this: As we have introduced full-day kindergarten, there is no doubt, I say to the member opposite, that there is a transition that is happening in the child care system. We understand that. Four- and five-year-olds who would have been in child care are now in full-day kindergarten—I might add, saving those families thousands of dollars a year so that they can have those kids in full-day kindergarten.

What that means is, in the child care system there is a transition so that children who have been on the waiting list who will be younger—they are now finding their way into the child care system. That is a change. It is a transformation. But, Mr. Speaker, it is a very good thing that 470,000 children have had full-day kindergarten—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: When a family relies on social assistance and the money never shows up, that’s a major problem. But not only did the minister insist that the problem was “a very small molehill,” she refused to even apologize. Why won’t the Premier acknowledge that in addition to fixing this problem, Ontarians deserve an apology?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I believe that the minister did apologize to the families who were affected by this. I’m very sorry, and I say it to the families who were affected by this. But the reality is, the system that is being put in place is a better system than was there before. The system will allow more time for caseworkers to work with families, and that’s a very good thing, because that relationship is extremely important.

The minister has been in touch with municipalities. She is working to make sure that wherever there was an impact on a family, that is being rectified.

I go once again to the responsibility of government, and that is to make the changes that are responsible and will improve service to people over the long term.

This is about a very large system, Mr. Speaker: 500,000 cheques a month that go out. We’d better make sure we have got a system that works for people in the long term.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, what this is about is services that are being cut and people who are feeling it. That’s what this is about. But an arrogant, out-of-touch Liberal government seems to believe that they just need to deny, deny, deny and somehow that’s going to stop being true. Can the Premier tell us why her arrogant Liberal government is denying what everyone else can see as a plain fact?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I understand that when a question is written down and the supplementaries are written down, you read the question and then the supplementaries. But the fact is, I have not denied that there are people who are struggling. I have not denied that there are impacts that come about because of the changes that we are making. What I do deny is that we are cutting services for the sake of cutting services. That is not the reality.

We are going through, whether it’s in the implementation of a new technology for making sure that people on social assistance have more time with their caseworkers; whether it’s the implementation of full-day kindergarten, which does have an impact on child care; or whether it’s making sure that people have the health care that they need where they need it, when they need it: Those are system changes. They are necessary for the long-term well-being of the 13.5 million people in Ontario. I don’t deny that that change is necessary. What I’m saying is that we must make the changes, and that’s what we’re doing.

Social Assistance Management System

Mr. Bill Walker: My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. Minister, in estimates committee, your office testified that the new SAMS system—software built by a company called Cúram and now owned by IBM—is “a modern, commercial, off-the-shelf application.” When questioned about Cúram’s serious software flaws experienced by legislators in Minnesota and Maryland, your assistant deputy minister, Martin Thumm, testified that it failed in those states because “they didn’t do the testing they needed to do before they implemented....”

Minister, for you, there was no rush to implement. In fact, you had four years to test the system and get it right. You extended the rollout deadline twice because of glitches and you still didn’t stop until you rolled it out. You just steamrolled through, Minister. You now wear this failure. You had all the time in the world. You wear it. What’s your excuse, Minister?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Thank you to the member for Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound for the question. I think we need to go back to understand why, in fact, we implemented SAMS in the first place. You will perhaps recall that we had a very outdated system. It was one that was brought in under the former PC government in 2002.

In 2009, the Auditor General put together a report on ODSP and Ontario Works and raised a number of issues with respect to the old system—SDMT. There were security and access control issues. There was a lack of user satisfaction on the part of the front-line workers, and there were long-standing system errors.

Our government recognized the system was outdated and no longer tenable. That is why we decided on this investment in a new system that will better support staff that deliver social assistance and, ultimately, will better serve the people who rely on our programs.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Bill Walker: Back to the Minister of Community and Social Services. The old system at least made sure that those cheques arrived on time and our most needy didn’t suffer, Minister.

Your government is averse to doing proper research. You failed to do it on MaRS, you failed to do it on Ornge, and you certainly failed to do it on eHealth. It’s evident you also failed to do your research on this new computer system. You had four years and multiple warnings from Minnesota, Maryland, OPSEU, your front-line staff and our PC members in estimates committee. Yet here you are left with a $20-million mess that is a combination of overpayments, missed and delayed payments. People are going without, Minister.

Mr. Speaker, though the party opposite may feel it’s acceptable to allow the needs of Ontario’s most vulnerable citizens to go unaddressed, we in the PC Party do not. The Premier said sorry. If she’s really sorry, Minister, what you will do—and we’re asking you the same question I asked yesterday: Will you bring those people from the front line back to estimates so we can get to the bottom of this and those people who are the most needy don’t suffer because of your carelessness again?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Let’s just get one thing straight. Our government has as its number one concern help and assistance for those most vulnerable members in society, at the core of the values that our party stands for, and it’s truly ironic to hear the member opposite who—under their government, there was a cut of some 22% of social assistance rates.

We remain committed to working closely with our front-line staff. We will implement SAMS and we will continue to provide support to our clients. Our focus in the near future relies on us all working together. This is caseworkers on the front-line and the support staff that is there to assist them, whether they be in municipal settings or in ODSP offices. We have confidence that SAMS will be a better solution for both the caseworkers and the people we serve.

Social Assistance Management System

Ms. Cindy Forster: My question is to the Premier. On Monday, the minister told this House that the government has a contract with IBM to “assist us” with “the transition of going live with SAMS.” Will the Premier release that contract today?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Yes, indeed, the government, through proper channels, obviously, engaged a vendor of record to implement this particular system. It is something that we’ve been working on and with the vendor Cúram, now owned by IBM, for the last three and half years. Clearly, technical support is provided and is continuing to be provided through this particular transition. We’re working closely with our partners in the field to ensure that they get the kind of support they need, pursuant to our agreement with them and through the provision of these services.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Cindy Forster: According to the reports, the government has found 65 defects in the SAMS program, which have led to the massive problems with social assistance money reaching the most vulnerable Ontarians. Apparently we have a contract to deal with these problems.

When the state of Minnesota had problems, IBM sent at least 80 technical workers to fix the problems. Have any IBM workers been dispatched to solve these problems, and how much are we paying them to actually fix the defects in their own software?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: We continue to work with a very active technical support team available to municipalities. In my conversations with the mayors of such cities as Hamilton, Sudbury, Ottawa and Windsor, I’ve made it very clear that this kind of support is available to them. We’ve actually set up some dedicated hotlines wherever a payment issue is identified so that these issues are prioritized.

I would like to mention, though, at this point that we still are finding it very difficult to validate some of the anecdotes that we’re hearing and have been printed in the media. The issue that we found with the contract related to the overpayment issue, as we’ve stated, has been corrected by the technical team.

Forest industry

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry. The Ontario forestry industry is a critical part of our economy; in fact, the forestry industry employs over 160,000 Ontarians in about 260 communities across this great province. Although most Ontarians believe the forestry industry is only in northern Ontario, it may surprise you that I have a mill in my own riding of Northumberland–Quinte West. However, the best part about this industry is the sustainability of the resources, with approximately 25.6 million hectares of forest certified as sustainable—more than twice the size of the state of Ohio.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: What are you doing to ensure that the government of Ontario has a growing forestry sector?

Hon. Bill Mauro: I want to thank the member for the question. It’s my understanding that it is sweet Lou Rinaldi’s birthday today, so I want to wish the member a happy birthday.

He is right when he suggests that the sector has gone through some very challenging times, not just here in Ontario but right across the country: Ontario, BC and Quebec, as the major forestry-producing jurisdictions in the country.

Our government stepped up to the plate. We’ve invested over $1.3 billion in forestry since 2005, including about $570 million for a roads program, a program that I would say was downloaded onto the backs of the forestry companies by the NDP when they had their turn in government, and also including $130 million in stumpage relief and $170 million in electricity relief. A $22.5-million grant to Resolute Forest Products for their mill in Fort Frances is one of the investments that we made on the capital side.

When the industry faced challenges related to global competition, a rising Canadian dollar, a global recession and a decline in the US housing market, we invested, and we’re now seeing them coming through and increasing their—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: Thank you to the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry for his response and leadership on this important issue.

My constituents have been listening to the accusations from the third party over the past few weeks regarding a mill in Fort Frances, a mill that’s very important to the town, like many mills in small towns across Ontario.

Though a private company owns the mill, I know how critical it is that this mill be heated through the winter to ensure that it remains a viable asset in case a buyer comes forward. Could the minister report to the House what he has done to ensure that this mill remains heated throughout the winter months?

Hon. Bill Mauro: Again, I thank the member for the question. It is accurate that over the course of the last several weeks, our office and our ministry have spent a great deal of time trying to work forward on a plan and a program with the owner of the mill, a privately owned asset, to see that that asset could be preserved should a new potential buyer step forward to purchase the asset.

We did not come to a successful conclusion on a deal with Resolute, so there’s no formal deal between our government and the owner of the mill. But we have publicly heard that the owner of the mill, Resolute Forest Products, has indicated that they will heat the asset in what they’re calling “asset protection mode.”

I had a long conversation with Mayor Avis of Fort Frances. I indicated very clearly to him the language that Resolute is using in terms of what they will do in the asset. We’re hopeful that that means it will be maintained in a state that, in that asset protection mode, should a potential buyer come forward, would reflect an asset that somebody would still be interested in buying.

Ontario Place

Ms. Laurie Scott: My question is to the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport. Minister, you’ve been mandated by the Premier to be the most open and transparent government in the country, yet 14 agencies under your watch have not tabled their annual reports in the House.

The Ontario Place Corp., which falls under your watch, has not tabled an annual report since 2010. Minister, why has it taken three years, and still no annual reports for Ontario Place have been tabled in this House?

Hon. Michael Coteau: We are committed to responsible fiscal management, and accountability and transparency in our government. That’s why the annual reports and expenses for ministry agencies are available publicly. There’s a process in place for these reports before they’re made public: They must be submitted by the ministry, they must be approved by the minister, approved by cabinet and tabled within the Legislature.

My ministry has received the 2012-13 annual reports from all of its agencies. These reports are still in the approval process and will be available for the public once they’re tabled in the Legislature.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Laurie Scott: In the case of Ontario Place, the financial reports are now listed online in public accounts for 2011 and 2012, just to update you, but the ministry has sat on those reports for almost a year. In them, the Auditor General notes concerns of pending legal action relating to the closure of Ontario Place. In fact, last year, an additional $4 million was spent on unforeseen closing costs, according to your former deputy minister.

Minister, what are you trying to hide, and when will the annual reports for 2011, 2012 and 2013 with respect to Ontario Place be tabled in this Legislature?

Hon. Michael Coteau: I have personally signed the 2011-12 annual report for Ontario Place, and I expect them to be tabled within the Legislature very shortly.

We’re excited about Ontario Place. Ontario Place was built in the 1970s. It is a great facility that we’ve invested time and energy into. We plan to bring that public asset back to the public so they can access it the same way I was able to access it with my family when I was a young guy.

Environmental assessment

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question to the Premier: Two weeks ago we were told that Ontario had joined with Quebec to set seven conditions for approval of the Energy East pipeline. But last week, the Premier called Alberta Premier Jim Prentice and reassured him that Ontario had not set any conditions at all.

The seven “principles,” as the Premier describes them, are more like suggestions. They are weaker and narrower than Quebec’s seven conditions. In particular, Quebec has committed to a provincial environmental assessment of the energies project; Ontario so far has not.

Will the Premier follow the lead of Quebec and commit to a full provincial environmental assessment of the Energy East pipeline?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the member opposite has listened to what both Premier Couillard and I and, this morning, Premier Prentice, have said in the public realm. We’ve been very clear that the principles that we put in place are things that we believe need to be considered, need to be part of the discussion at the National Energy Board.

We recognize that the NEB has jurisdiction over this decision. The Minister of Energy, through the Ontario Energy Board, has put a process in place that will gather input that will form the body of the intervention with the National Energy Board.

But I have been working very hard with Premiers across this country to put in place a Canadian energy strategy. I believe that having a Canadian energy strategy that looks at how we can all do our part—whether it’s on greenhouse gas emissions or whether it’s on clean renewable energy, we all have a role to play. That’s the work that I’ve been doing with Premiers across the country.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Well, Speaker, as you sometimes say, I heard a no.

Unlike Quebec, Ontario refuses to conduct a provincial environmental assessment of Energy East. The Premier says the federal process is good enough, even after Stephen Harper gutted the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. But provinces like British Columbia and Quebec have refused to leave their fate in the hands of Stephen Harper. Their Premiers have said pipeline projects in their provinces will not proceed unless it is in their province’s interests.

Will the Premier make the same commitment to the people of Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The member would know that the National Energy Board has jurisdiction over this issue. The province of Ontario and all the other provinces can only go there as interveners and provide information. By the time we’re ready to make the submissions, there will not be enough time to complete an environmental assessment. That’s number one.

Number two: We were ahead of the game almost a year ago by asking the Ontario Energy Board to consult across the province of Ontario. There were technical inputs, there were sociological inputs, there were all kinds of inputs that we received in our consultation. The consultation is not yet completed. Since the application has just been filed recently, we are going to open up the consultations once again. So all the environmentalists, all the businesses and the gas companies that are opposed to TransCanada will have input into our consultation. It’s thorough, it’s complete, we’re ahead of the game, and I don’t know how Quebec is going to do it in time.

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is for the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

As you’re well aware, today is the United Nations International Day of Persons with Disabilities. Today, the world is promoting a deeper understanding of disability issues and mobilizing support to foster a more inclusive society.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: Can the minister responsible for the AODA please inform the House about the progress our government has made to make Ontario more accessible?

The 2010 Martin Prosperity Institute outlined that having an inclusive Ontario would see a $7.9-billion investment in gross domestic product. This isn’t only good for our society, it’s not only good for people with disabilities, this is something that’s crucial to our competitiveness as an economy.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Soo Wong: I want to thank the minister for giving us an update about the steps that the Ontario government is making to make Ontario accessible.

In conjunction with the games, the first-ever Canadian wheelchair basketball academy was created by Wheelchair Basketball Canada. Today, high-performance wheelchair basketball athletes are training at the University of Toronto Scarborough campus. These athletes have al-ready begun using the world’s first full-time, year-round daily training centre.

Speaker, through you to the minister: Can he please explain the various strategies our government is taking to make the Pan and Parapan Am Games more accessible?

Hon. Brad Duguid: Minister responsible for the Pan and Parapan Am Games.

Hon. Michael Coteau: I’d like to thank the member from Scarborough–Agincourt for her important question. We’re committed to making sure that the Parapan Am and the Pan Am Games in 2015 are the most accessible games ever. In every planning stage of the games, we’ve thought about how to make this experience available to all people of all abilities.

Beekeeping industry

Mr. Toby Barrett: My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I think he was on the list to leave early.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Let me check, please.

I’m still going to provide the member with an opportunity to redirect, if you can do that for me, please.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Thank you, Speaker—perhaps the Premier, then.

Premier, we in the PC caucus are asking—your government has had 11 years—why have you not implemented a Manitoba-type insurance model to help our Ontario beekeepers?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We have implemented an Ontario program. The reality is that we have put in place supports for beekeepers who had the winter losses that we saw last year. We are working with the industry to make sure that we have an appropriate and balanced approach going forward.

Part of that is to prevent bee deaths. That is what we’re aiming at. I know the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change will want to comment on the specifics around those changes.

We know it’s very important that we support the beekeepers who have had these winter losses. At the same time, we’ve put a precautionary approach in place that will allow us to prevent bee deaths going forward.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Toby Barrett: Our beekeepers need a very practical approach. Government does run insurance programs. I’ve had bees on my farms for 38 years. I have seen the losses over the years—well before neonics, for that matter.

Manitoba has an insurance program that’s up and running right now. Alberta has a similar program. Now we see that Saskatchewan has started a bee mortality insurance pilot project, run through the Saskatchewan Crop Insurance Corp., to cover the loss of honey bees over the winter. They have tough winters, as we know, just like we had last winter. The pilot will run for three years before being evaluated to decide if it will continue. It will bring Saskatchewan in line with the bee insurance programs that are already there in Manitoba and Alberta.

You haven’t followed Manitoba’s lead over the last 11 years. You didn’t follow Alberta’s lead. Will Ontario at least consider the pilot project Saskatchewan has in place to provide risk insurance, again, to help our beekeepers in Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of the Environment and Climate Change.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: First of all, I want to thank the member opposite for the question. I have great respect for his work as a producer and as a beekeeper. I hope he’ll take the time to have a coffee with me later to discuss this, because I think this is not a partisan issue.

Mr. Speaker, we are moving forward—

Interjection.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: You don’t talk to me about the truth, my friend.

Mr. Speaker, we’re working right now on a program very similar to the other provinces’ as well, but we’re focused on the priority of actually reducing bee losses, because we don’t think that’s good for the environment, for beekeepers or for crop producers. Bees are such a critical part on their own—the managed bee population—of our farm economy, and they’re important.

I hope the member opposite will support measures that will reduce the need for the people of Ontario to actually have to pay out for losses. I assume that would be comfortable with my friends in the official opposition, of reducing the cost of—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

Domestic violence

Ms. Sarah Campbell: To the Premier: Since 2003, the Domestic Violence Death Review Committee coroner has reported on deaths due to domestic violence in the province and, each year, makes recommendations to various levels of government.

In their report released this morning, ARC points out that while some progress has been made on those recommendations, much more needs to be done.

Shamefully, not all ministries and agencies contacted for this report bothered to respond to each of the recommendations. Worse, not all agencies and ministries have bothered to implement the recommendations made in the coroner’s domestic violence reviews.

Speaker, 251 women have died as a result of domestic violence in the 10 years since the DVDRC started examining this issue. Just last week, members in this House wore purple scarves in recognition of violence against women, so I know that it’s a priority for the legislators in this Legislature.

Premier, what will this government do to establish monitoring mechanisms and to implement these recommendations?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister responsible for women’s issues.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I want to thank the member for this very important question. We all, I think, want to thank the Domestic Violence Death Review Committee for the report, and we’ll all be reviewing the recommendations very carefully.

At the end of the day, we all have the exact same goal, which is an Ontario free of domestic violence. Of course, my heart goes out to the family that was highlighted in the media just today, I think—a terrible domestic tragedy that affected an entire family.

As the minister responsible for women’s issues, it is a priority for me, and all of us, that Ontario women and everyone feel safe in their homes, their workplaces and their communities.

While Ontario has some of the lowest rates of domestic violence across Canada, we absolutely know that there is more work to be done. That’s why our government has increased funding for community services that help victims of domestic violence. That has been increased by 48% since 2003. There is more work to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Sarah Campbell: Unfortunately, just today there was a report of a mother and her two children who were murdered in Toronto on the weekend, having struggled to find housing in order to flee a violent situation.

Access to emergency housing is one of the recommendations in the coroner’s report. Access to emergency housing remains a problem in the province of Ontario. One of the recommendations is that shelters and second-stage housing continue to receive support and funding that keeps pace with inflation.

What this group wants is to return to the Legislature next year to give this government an A for implementing the recommendations in the coroner’s domestic violence review.

Why won’t this government do everything in its power to ensure that all ministries and agencies comply with the coroner’s recommendations, to end violence against women and to implement these very important recommendations?

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I think we’ll all agree that one domestic violent act is one too many; one death associated with domestic violence is too many. That’s why we have to keep making the investments we’ve been making.

Last week, my colleague the Minister of Community and Social Services announced an additional $14.5 million over the next three years to support women’s shelters, counselling agencies and transitional housing.

Our government started making these investments at a time when the former government, in fact, was cutting funding to women’s shelters and support.

I am pleased that next week I’ll be making an important funding announcement with the Neighbours, Friends and Families immigrants and refugees campaign that will help women and their families affected by domestic violence to access the supports that are culturally and linguistically relevant and accessible.

We remain very committed to an Ontario free of domestic violence and sexual assault and sexual violence, because we firmly believe that every woman has the right to feel safe and secure—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

Mental health and addictions strategy

Mrs. Cristina Martins: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. The members of my riding in Davenport have been asking me about the new Mental Health and Addictions Leadership Advisory Council and its plan to provide better access, better quality and better value.

The minister announced an important expansion of our mental health strategy that would help us improve access to services, reduce wait times and close the gaps in our system. To help guide the implementation of this plan, our government announced a new Mental Health and Addictions Leadership Advisory Council. The council will provide advice on the strategy’s investments, promote collaboration across sectors and report annually on the strategy’s progress.

The council will be chaired by Susan Pigott, and the members of the council include people who have experienced a mental health and addiction challenge, as well as leaders from across different sectors that serve people with mental health or addictions.

Through you, Mr. Speaker, I ask: What are the priorities of this council and what do they plan on achieving?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Thanks to the member from Davenport for this very important question. The council that she’s referring to—the members will provide the government with important advice as we move forward with our mental health and addictions strategy phase 2’s top five priorities.

These priorities include promoting resiliency and well-being for all Ontarians by expanding proven programs in schools and in the workplace, as well as drawing on public health expertise on mental health promotion and addiction prevention.

Mr. Speaker, we’re going to also, as a priority, ensure that early identification and intervention is available for those with mental illness and addictions.

We’re going to, as a third priority, expand housing, employment supports and initiatives to reduce contact with the criminal justice system; and providing the right care at the right time and in the right place through initiatives such as better service coordination, addressing gaps in the system and improving transitions.

We’re also going to be establishing a new funding model linked to population need, quality improvement and service integration.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Cristina Martins: We know that approximately one in five young people in Ontario—that’s more than two million—are dealing with mental health issues like anxiety, depression and eating disorders. Approximately 70% of mental health and addictions problems begin in childhood and adolescence.

Nearly 30% of my constituents in Davenport are below the age of 25. The promotion of overall healthy well-being is absolutely crucial for these young people.

Many community organizations help young people increase self-esteem, such as the Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club and others which provide support through services such as counselling, like the Abrigo Centre and the Davenport-Perth Neighbourhood and Community Health Centre. However, many are looking to our government to take an active leadership role in supporting these Ontarians struggling with mental illnesses.

The first phase of the mental health strategy was focused on children and youth. Minister, how will you continue your commitment to this segment of the population in the second phase?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: To the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I, too, want to thank the member from Davenport for raising this very important question. As she said, the first three years of our mental health strategy has been focused on children and youth, and that’s because it was the right and the smart thing to do, Speaker.

Today, more than an additional 50,000 children and youth and their families are benefiting from these initiatives and programs. While we are proud of our accomplishments, we know there’s more to do.

My ministry will continue to work with our partners and transform the child and youth mental health system through our Moving on Mental Health plan, and promote community mobilization as we move into year 2 of our Youth Suicide Prevention Plan.

Together, we will help young people with mental health illnesses enjoy the very bright future that I think we’ll all agree they deserve.

Highway construction

Mr. John Yakabuski: My question is to the Minister of Transportation. Minister, in June 2013, the county of Renfrew published a business case for accelerating the expansion of Highway 17. In that report, it called on your ministry to identify the continued expansion from Scheel Drive to the town of Renfrew in the province’s five-year capital works budget.

Furthermore, it called on the province to roll out a predictable and multi-year program to fund the planning and implementation of environmental assessment updates, property acquisition and budget allocations of the continued expansion.

The people of my riding understand that the expansion is not only essential for the local economy but also one of driver safety.

Minister, it has been over a year and a half since the county released its report. Can you give us an update? Have you seen the report, and what are your comments?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I want to thank the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke for that question. I also want to commend him for his advocacy with respect to this particular issue and also to say to the county of Renfrew, for putting the business case for the accelerated extension of this particular highway forward, that I want to make sure they understand that it is obviously some great work that has taken place. I know there have been conversations in the past with other Ministers of Transportation regarding this project.

Of course, as the member opposite would know, the ministry understands the importance of this expansion, and we are committed to continuing to make improvements to this particular highway. For example, in 2012, as the member would know, we did finish the first phase of expansion from regional road 29 to Division Street. Phase 2, from Division Street to Scheel Drive, is currently under construction, and it’s expected that this work will be completed in 2016.

Beyond that, Speaker, in 2014-15, I think it’s important to note that our government is committing nearly $2 billion to expand and repair southern Ontario’s highways and bridges.

I look forward to continuing to work with this member and his county on this important project.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Thank you for that reply, Minister, but we’re speaking to beyond Scheel Drive, and I will say that your predecessor did identify this as a priority project and I’m hoping that you will consider it the same.

For a decade now, I have received a steady stream of emails, letters and phone calls to my office from concerned residents and municipal leaders around the issue of Highway 17. This is a key infrastructure project in eastern Ontario. It’s about local economic development. It’s also an issue of public safety.

I will ask you again to accept the findings of the county’s report for the accelerated extension of Highway 17 and give us a date when you’ll be implementing them. We need to know what’s going to happen beyond 2016 when the expansion to Scheel Drive is complete.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: Again, I thank that member for his supplementary question. What I didn’t get to say in the opening answer was that the environmental assessments for phases 3 and 4 have been updated. Property acquisitions and designation have been initiated. Timing of construction will depend on a number of factors, including detailed design, property acquisition and additional environmental approvals.

I understand why this is important for this member, for this county and for this part of Ontario. I referenced in my initial answer the nearly $2 billion that we’re investing in southern Ontario’s highways. I have heard not only from this member, but a number of members on that side of the House—the member from Wellington–Halton Hills, the member from Parry Sound–Muskoka and others—about the importance of investing in crucial infrastructure. It’s why we have the Moving Ontario Forward plan: $29 billion over 10 years for transit, transportation and other crucial forms of infrastructure.

It is encouraging to hear members on that side of the House understand the enlightenment of our plan. I look forward to their continued support in the years to come.

Post-secondary education

Ms. Peggy Sattler: My question is to the Premier. It’s not easy being a student in Ontario, from studying and working full- or part-time jobs to paying the highest tuition fees in the country, but nothing makes it harder than trying to do all that while going hungry. Today, post-secondary students are one of the fastest-growing groups of food bank users. There is not one college or university campus that doesn’t have some kind of food relief program, and many local food banks are setting special hours for post-secondary students.

Does the Premier think it is acceptable that increasing numbers of students must rely on food banks in order to afford post-secondary education?

So, no, I don’t accept that young people should go hungry in this province, and we’re working very hard to make sure that young people and families have everything they need in order to be able to thrive.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: This year’s Hunger Report, released yesterday by the Ontario Association of Food Banks, points out that hunger is rampant on post-secondary campuses because university tuition has increased nearly 40% in just seven years. Students’ budgets can’t keep up with the rising prices of rent, tuition and food. This government could change that. The Liberals’ sky-high tuition policies are forcing more and more students to choose between going hungry while they are studying or abandoning higher education altogether.

Why is this government making hunger another cost of higher education in Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

Hon. Brad Duguid: This government understands the challenges that students face across this province—a number of different challenges. The member raises some good points, but she’s wrong on a number of different categories as well.

We brought in a 30% Off Ontario Tuition Grant that’s providing thousands of dollars of savings across this province to students. Mr. Speaker, a student today who is receiving the 30% Off Ontario Tuition Grant is paying the same amount of tuition today that they would have been paying 10 years ago. That’s a fact.

That doesn’t mean we’re done. That doesn’t mean we’re not going to keep working with students in post-secondary institutions to do everything we can to improve education in our universities and colleges and to ensure that we keep a cap on tuitions.

We’ve lowered the amount that post-secondary institutions can raise tuitions. We’re working with students. We’ll continue to address the challenge.

Wind turbines

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri: Ma question est pour le ministre de l’Énergie, the Honourable Bob Chiarelli.

Speaker, as an MPP and MD, I was pleased to learn of the recent Health Canada study on the effects of wind turbines, which found no evidence—I repeat, no evidence—to support a link between wind turbine noise and self-reported illnesses, stress or impacts on sleep. This scientifically grounded study, which included participants from communities across southwestern Ontario and PEI, is considered to be an international-class study, the most comprehensive investigation to date.