Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 45 (40th Legislature, 4th Session)

40-4-45

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVII No. 45 - 1:30 p.m., Wedneday, June 10, 2015 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne, Hon. St. James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Greg, Hon.

Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Thomas, Hon. Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder, Hon. The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie, Hon. Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

1747 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, June 10, 2015 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled h ere before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 25–The Children's Advocate Act Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Dewar), that Bill 25, The Children's Advocate Act;

Loi sur le protecteur des enfants, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Irvin-Ross: Mr. Speaker, in response to recom - mendations made by Commissioner Ted Hughes, this bill introduces independent stand- alone legislation for the Manitoba Children's Advocate. The bill retains the powers and duties of the Children's Advocate that were previously embedded in The Child and Family Services Act.

However, a number of provisions have been amended and the new ones created in order to strengthen the independence of the Children's Advocate and enhance public reporting abilities on the important work carried out by the Children's Advocate. With this bill, we set the stage for upcoming legislative amendments that include an expansion of the Children's Advocate mandate beyond the child-welfare system. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to petitions.

Provincial Trunk Highway 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank–Pedestrian Safety Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petitio n to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Every day, hundreds of Manitoba children walk to school in Oakbank and must cross PTH 206 at the intersection with Cedar Avenue.

(2) There have been many dangerous incidents where drivers use the right shoulder to pass vehicles that have stopped at the traffic light waiting to turn left at this intersection.

(3) Law enforcement officials have identified this intersection as a hot spot of concern for the safety of schoolchildren, drivers and emergency responders. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To encourage that the provincial government improve the safety at the pedestrian corridor at the intersection of PTH 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank by considering such steps as highlighting pavement markings to better indicate the location of the shoulders and crosswalk, as well as installing a lighted crosswalk structure. This is signed by D. Wachniak, D. Wachniak, D.

Pageot and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Province-Wide Long-Term Care– Review Need and Increase Spaces Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) There are currently 125 licensed personal - care homes, PCHs, across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds.

1748 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015

(2) All trends point to an increasingly aging population who will require additional personal - care-home facilities.

(3) By some estimates, Manitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036.

(4) The number of Manitobans with Alzheimer 's disease or a ny other dementia-related illnesses who will require personal-care-home services are steadily increasing and are threatening to double within the current generation.

(5) The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area currently under the administration of Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008.

(6) Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, with some regions, such as the Swan River Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates.

(7) These high occupancy rates are creating the conditions where many individuals requiring long-term care are being displaced far away from their families and their home communities. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider immediately enacting a provin ce-wide review of the long-term-care needs of residents of Manitoba.

And (2) t o urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health- care system by the current and continuous aging population and consider increasing the availability of long-term-care spaces, PCH beds, in communities across the province. And this petition is signed by M. Frayer, V. Botwright and B. Kopulos and many, many more fine Manitobans. Proposed Lac du Bonnet Marina– Request for Research into Benefits and Costs Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Lac du Bonnet is a recreational area with great natural beauty.

(2) The Winnipeg River is one of the greatest distinguishing cultural and recreational resources in that area.

(3) Ma nitoba marinas increase recreational access and increase the desirability of properties in their host communities.

(4) The people of Lac du Bonnet overwhelm - ingly support a public harbourfront marina in Lac du Bonnet. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider collaborating with other levels of government to research the economic benefits and construction costs of a marina in Lac du Bonnet. This petition is signed by A. Meade, S. Meade, W. Franz and many, many more fine Manitobans. Bipole III Land Expropriation– Collective Bargaining Request Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: On November 19th, 2014, the Premier author - ized an order -in-council enabling Manitoba Hydro to take valuable and productive farmland for its controversial Bipole III transmission line project without due process of law. On November 24th, 2014, the minister responsible for the administration of T he Manitoba Hydro Act signed a confirming order for the province of Manitoba declaring that no notice to landowners is required for the seizure of property.

This waiver of notice represents an attack on rural families and their property rights in a modern democratic society. There was not even an opportunity provided for debate in the Manitoba Legislature. In many cases, the private property seized has been part of a family farm for generations. Manitoba Hydro has claimed that it has only ever expropriated one landowner in its entire history of operation. The provincial government has now gone ahead and instituted expropriation procedures against more than 200 landowners impacted by Bipole III. * (13:40)

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1749 Since November 2013, the Manitoba Bipole III Landowner Committee, MBLC, in association with the Canadian Association of Energy and Pipeline Landowner Associations, CAEPLA, have been trying to engage Manitoba Hydro to negotiate a fair business agreement. For over 14 months, the provincial government and Manitoba Hydro have acted in bad faith in their dealings with Manitoba landowners or their duly authorized agents. These actions have denied farmers their right to bargain collectively to protect their property and their businesses from Bipole III.

MBLC, CAEPLA has not formed an association to stop the Bipole III project and they are not antidevelopment. MBLC, CAEPLA has simply come together, as a group of people, as Manitobans, to stand up for the –for property rights and the right to collectively bargain for a fair business agreement that protects the future well-being of their businesses. MBLC, CAEPLA are duly authorized agents for Manitoba landowners who wish to exercise their freedom to associate and negotiate in good faith.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the provincial government immediately direct Manitoba Hydro to engage with MBLC, CAEPLA in order to negotiate a fair business agreement that addresses the many legit - imate concerns of farm families affected by the Bipole III transmission line. And this petition is signed by B. Wiens, P. Rempel, D. Scott and many more fine Manitobans. Rights of Manitoba Children Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government should uphold the rights of children set forth by the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, adopted by Canada over 20 years ago, to better protect and promote children and their rights and to ensure the voices of children are heard. Instead, many children in Manitoba, especially those in the child -welfare system, reveal they sometimes feel they have no say in what happens to them.

Under this provincial government, Manitoba's children and youth are falling behind in several indicators of well -being and in areas that would prepare them for better outcomes in life. This year, the provincial government's education system was ranked last of all Canadian provinces in science, reading and math. Under this provincial government, Manitoba also has the second highest percentage of children using food banks of all Canadian provinces a nd the highest child poverty rate.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities to ensure that the rights of all Manitoba children are respected and that the opinions of children are taken into consideration when decisions that affect them are made. To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities to correct the tragic systemic flaws that have failed Manitoba children in the recent past. This petition is signed by A. Koch, S. Fisher, K. Wiens and many other Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Committee reports?

Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have gues ts to introduce. This afternoon we have, in the public gallery, we have Ms. Devin Morrow, who is the guest of the honourable Minister of Health (Ms. Blady). And also seated in the public gallery this afternoon we have, from Springs Christian Academy, we have eight grade 11 students under the direction of Mr. Brad Dowler, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister. On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome all of you here this afternoon.

1750 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 ORAL QUESTIONS Provincial Economy Government Record Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, the government released a report late last year that was in respect of judicial compensation, and it reported–and this is according to government experts, Mr. Speaker –that economic growth in Manitoba is meagre –meagre. That's a tough way to describe what the Premier's celebrating in taxpayer-paid advertisements, I think. Now, these senior finance officials commented that we are falling behind Saskatchewan remarkably.

In fact, they said we shouldn't even try to compare ourselves to Saskatchewan; we should compare ourselves to New Brunswick instead. These are government experts that the Premier isn't apparently aware of or listening to. Now, Moody's report said that the government has an incredibly bad spending problem which is threatening our credit rating, and other experts at Hydro have reported that the government's mistaken strategies are going to lead to a loss in our credit rating and billions of dollars of losses.

Now, with all these experts united in com - menting in a negative way on the government's lack of economic management, who is wrong? Are they all wrong or is the Premier wrong? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): We've taken our economic forecast from a range of private and public sector forecasters, the standard ones used by most provinces across the country; they don't reach into special committees to get economic forecasts. The Royal Bank of Canada says that our future outlook remains bright for Manitoba, third best in 2015 at 2.6 per cent. The Conference Board of Canada has us at 2.8 per cent in '15 and '16.

The recent job numbers on actual hours worked that we just saw from the head of statistics Manitoba, the Manitoba bureau, has said that when it comes to actual hours worked, Manitoba's outpacing all but one other province. Mr. Speaker, that's a macro indicator that shows more people are working, they're more –working longe r hours, they're earning better wages. So we do know that overall forecasts for the first quarter in the country showed a dramatic slowdown, both in the United States and in Canada, their economies, and that has affected all of us.

But in the midst of all of that, Manitoba still is ranked as one of the better performers for the economy in the coming year. Mr. Pallister: The Premier is sadly confused. He's confusing forecasts with actual results. His actual results are ninth over the last six years, closer to 10th than to eighth, but forecasts are an interesting thing. Last year the government projected that it would grow the economy twice as fast as it actually did. So I'd encourage the Premier to study his history and learn from it.

Now, the fact of the matter is that the reason that these experts are saying we have bright future is because of one thing: the drop, unprecedented drop, in the price of crude oil. The Conference Board, in fact, commented and said, no, there's nothing that they're doing right in Manitoba; it's just that the price of oil is dropping and it will benefit Manitoba more than all other provinces. So the Premier has the power to make certain things happen. He can bungle a stadium project. He could stage an internal rebellion, cause it to happen. He could make secret payments to friends.

He could even raise the PST, and all of these things would be his responsibility. But would he admit today that he had no responsibility whatsoever for the price of crude oil dropping by 50 per cent? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, just–the member doesn't like forecasts; he likes hard data. The full -time employment, April 2015, per cent change upward positively, 3.4 per cent, No. 1 in the country: hard facts. I know the member doesn't like facts when they contradict his preconceived notions, but let me give him another one: total employment, up to April '15, 2.3 per cent, No. 1 in the country, Mr.

Speaker, No. 1 in the country. Private employment, up to April 2015, 2 per cent; Canadian performance, 0.6 per cent. Where are we ranked? No. 1 in the country. Those are the facts. Will the Leader of the Opposition acknowledge those facts are accurate? Mr. Pallister: So for six consecutive years, under this Premier, this province's economy lagged the rest of the nation and now he's surprised that we have a higher percentage growth. Even if we grow at twice the rate of Saskatchewan for the next six years, we won't make up the ground we've lost under this

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1751 government and this Premier, Mr. Speaker. Now, that's the problem he doesn't seem to want to face up to. Bear Bryant was a notable football coach, Mr. Speaker. He used to say, if things go really well, it's your fault; if things go bad, it's my fault. But the Premier's got it backwards. He wants credit for things that he had nothing to do with and places blame, blame on the global economy, blame on the federal government, blame on Mother Nature, blame on the previous premier, blaming all the time.

That's why half his caucus doesn't support him, because he'll blame anyone. He'll blame the civil servant and put one under the bus when things go south every single time. * (13:50) Now, why, when he's ninth –ninth–over the last six years, why would he blame someone else? Maybe today we'll see a new revelation in behav iour from this Premier and he'll admit that that's not somebody else's fault, that's his fault. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the non-blaming approach of the Leader of the Opposition, and I say that with an enormous amount of irony and a tongue firmly planted in my cheek.

Housing starts in all areas: for the first quarter of 2015, per cent change for Canada, 3.7 per cent; per cent change for Manitoba, 43 per cent; ranking in the country, No. 2. New facts for the members opposite. Urban housing starts: up 'til April 2015, 0.8 of 1 per cent for the country; for Manitoba, 26.2 per cent; rank in the country, No. 2. The real economy at base prices: for '14, per cent change for Manitoba, 2.3 per cent, No. 2 in the country. I'd be happy to put m ore performance -based facts on the record for the Leader of the Opposition if he is so kind as to ask me another question, Mr. Speaker.

Social Impact Bonds Social Service Program Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, I'd be happy to. Fun with facts here, Mr. Speaker, let's play with the facts, the Premier says. Okay, when you hit one home run in a whole season, hitting two is 100 per cent gain. Congratulations. Okay, lagging the country for six years and now using fun facts to try to make a case that doesn't–isn't supportable by those facts is pretty pathetic. But let's put this on the record. Here's a quote: Our province should be judged by how it treats the most vulnerable.

We agree– we agree–and that's why yesterday we advanced some pretty significant and innovative ideas. We'll launch a social impact bond pilot program. What it'll do is allow community groups to bid to make the greatest impact upon providing–fighting against poverty and the causes of poverty and to feel part of the sustainability and making sustainable our new approach to social programs that work to improve people's lives. These are the words of the NDP leader of New Brunswick. Does the Premier agree with the NDP leader of New Brunswick? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): The member asks a question about what he calls social impact bonds. We believe that if you're going to invest in communities that the resources should stay in the community, Mr. Speaker, and that we think that –we're very supportive of social economy, social enterprise activity where the investments go into the com - munity, the benefits stay in the community, the salaries increase.

The member opposite is proposing an approach where you don't put the money where it's needed, you put it where it's going to give their greatest return for the private investor, and if something goes wrong the investor gets paid out, not the people that need the service. He's even proposing doing that for people in the child-welfare system. All the money in the child-welfare system should stay with the children and the families. This is another attempt by the Leader of the Opposition. Last year –last week he announced he's privatizing the daycare system.

This week he's privatizing the social assistance system and social support system. That's unacceptable. Mr. Pallister: Mr. Speaker, it's not unacceptable to socialist governments in Scandinavia who use the exact concept. It's not unacceptable to people in Australia who are helping address, together in partnership, social problems in their country, or in

1752 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 England or throughout the United States or, in fact, not unacceptable to the leader of the NDP in New Brunswick. It's only unacceptable to backward- looking, closed-minded members opposite. It wasn't unacceptable just three months ago when the government released its Manitoba Social Enterprise Strategy, and on page 21 –which I encourage the Premier to read, and endorsed by the member sitting next to him –page 21, recommendation 29, recommended and supported: publicly financed social impact bonds. Who is talking to who over there?

This report is signed by not one but two ministers on the other side. Don't they talk to each other? Now, how can social impact bonds be such a scary idea today when they were such a good idea to his friends just three months ago? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the member opposite, because it allows us to make this very important clarification.

His approach is to bleed money out of the daycare system, to bleed money out of the social services program just like he bled money out of the province of Manitoba when he privatized the telephone system, just like he attempted to do when he tried to privatize the home-care system. The approach taken in the Social Enterprise Strategy, in the social economy strategy, is to make sure the money stays in the hands of the community. He wants to put holes in the community and bleed money out. We want money to go into the community and stay in the community for the benefit of the community.

That is the difference: more wealth for the people of the inner city, not more wealth for his rich investor friends. Mr. Pallister: Well, we announced support for an idea, which the government supported three months ago, which now t hey don't. The minister of Child and Family Services, the Minister of Jobs and the Economy (Mr. Chief) signed off on this report, and they signed off on the same ideas that we support, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier, in castigating those who come forward with i deas, fails to recognize that the problems, our social problems, have worsened under his watch, and he fails to be open- minded to looking for solutions. Now, obviously, there was a rebellion over there because members asserted that the Premier stopped listening. I sense another rebellion in the offing if he doesn't begin to listen. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

We have a number of guests with us in the gallery this afternoon, and we're thankful that they're here watching our Legislature in action, but I'm getting the sense here that members are getting to be a little bit boisterous. I'm not sure what was on the menu for lunch, but I'm asking honourable members, please keep the level down a little bit to allow our guests to h ear both the questions and the answers. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, to continue. Mr. Pallister: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me just say that we believe that the societal challenges that we must face in this province must be faced in partnership and they must be faced creatively and with innovative thinking, and I was impressed by some of the work, actually, that was contained in the report that the ministers co- signed on, and I believe there were good ideas in it, and we chose to endorse and support one of those ideas put forward by those two ministers, and the Premier today chooses to criticizes those ideas.

Now, I would suggest, respectfully, that some of the ideas that we discuss here should be discussed in solidarity and with a mutual sense of purpose, and I would just simply ask the Premier to endorse this concept and to at least commit to researching it and looking at it with an open mind because it's working to help people around the world and we need to help some people here in Manitoba– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Selinger: Certainly, we will do that.

That report was prepared in a consultation between members of the government and members of the community, Mr. Speaker, and they took a look at all these different dimensions of it. It was a collab- orative approach. It was a partnership approach. The member opposite talks about partnership, Mr. Speaker, and I'll give an example in a minute of what he did when he was in government when it came to partnership. All of those ideas have to be informed by the core values. Who are we trying to benefit? We're

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1753 trying to make sure that the folks with the least amount of resources have a ch ance for jobs, have a chance for training, have a chance to have quality services, have a chance to get housing, have a chance to live in safe neighbourhoods. That's the purpose, not to reward investors outside of the community by bleeding resources out of it. We see lots of good investments from many well-spirited Manitobans all the time, and we have one of the best charitable giving rates in Manitoba, for which it makes a huge difference in the invest - ments made.

And we've supported many community foundations in Manitoba which have a very direct impact on the quality of life in their communities. But let me just speak to the partnership of the Leader of the Opposition when he was in government. He cut money for the abilities network; he cut money for the Association for Community Living; he cut money for the Brandon Friendship Centre; he cut money for the Dauphin Friendship Centre; he cut money– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The honourable First Minister's time on this question has elapsed. Children in Care Graduation Rates Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I rise today to thank the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy, I guess, for waking up this government, exposing many of the truths th at Manitobans have already known, with the report Manitoba Can Do Better for Kids in Care. The report states, and I quote: Manitoba has one of the highest rates in the world of children placed in care. End quote. In the world, Mr. Speaker. We have over 11,000 kids in care, two thirds of whom do not graduate from high school. This is obviously not new information.

Will the minister admit that this government has failed Manitoba's most vulnerable children and continues to get worse? * (14:00) Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): I certainly thank the member for the question. It is an important part of public policy and needs to be discussed in this Chamber. I also want to thank the centre for the research work that they did.

A fter all, we commissioned that report, and we commissioned that report because on this side of the House we believe in evidence -based analysis of circumstances so that we can get a handle on the full nature of the circumstances facing our kids in care, especially as it relates in education. That's why we've taken the next step to establish a task force in consultation with members of the educational community and the social services agencies so that together we can create a bright future for every student in Manitoba. Mr. Ewasko: Mr. Speaker, two thirds of the children in care do not graduate from high school.

Less than half are even ready for school. This damning report shouldn't be a surprise to this government. It didn't just appear out of thin air, much like the magic wand from the Health Minister. Has the government been hiding this information or did the ministers not know what was going on in their own departments? Mr. Allum: Well, we commissioned the report because we want to make sure we hav e the best evidence-based analysis of the circumstances facing kids in care, especially as they relate to educational outcomes. That's why we established a task force yesterday.

It will be co -chaired by Tammy Christensen, who is the executive director of Ndinawe, and as well as the good Kevin Lamoureux, who's an instructor and educator and an outstanding public servant in our community. And this task force will focus on actions that will increase communication between education and the child- welfare system . It will develop pro- gramming to address the particular education needs of children in care and identify best practices, resources and strategies that can be used for teachers and social workers in the field. Mr. Speaker, we're– Mr. Speaker: Order, pleas e.

The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Ewasko: Mr. Speaker, the facts are we have a damning report which magnifies how this NDP government can do better for children in care, as if they didn't know this information already. Eleven thousand kids in care and growing each and every day, two thirds of them do not graduate from high school, and what do they do? They launch a task force. Really?

1754 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 Will this minister admit 16 years of failed NDP policies and do they–and that they do not have a plan moving forward? Mr. Allum: Well, I've been in Education for some time now and not once has the member opposite ever raised this question, because they don't care about these particular issues. We commissioned the report and established the task force with two outstanding members of our community, by the way, so I would ask him to show a little respect on that–in that regard, and to make sure that we have the best outcomes for student success in Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, on the opposite side of the House they have one agenda, and that's to cut services, cut budget. I don't know for a –if I think about it, I can't for imagine understand how that will be of any benefit, not only to kids in care but to any Manitoban. They're–the biggest threat is the Leader of the Opposition and his caucus. Children in Care Graduation Rates Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): What is wrong with our child and family services system when only 47 per cent of the kids in care are ready to attend school?

Seventy -six per cent of children who have had no contact with Child and Family Services are ready to attend school. That's a huge difference. These children are starting their education and their lives with a huge disadvantage. How can this be acceptable to this government? Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): Well, Mr. Speaker, this is an important question. I'm glad the members opposite have raised it. We do need to work collaboratively and collectively to ensure the best possible o utcomes for kids in care with respect to their education system. Mr.

Speaker, whatever other challenges those children might have in their lives, and they are significant, whatever other challenges they have, we want to be sure that the education system i s there for them every single day, responds to their needs, so that they can have opportunities in the future to go on with their post-secondary education if it comes to that, go on and get a good job and have a good life right here in Manitoba. Mr. Wishart: After 16 years, they just noticed they had a problem.

During Estimates I asked the minister respon- sible for Child and Family Services questions regarding the department's practice of tracking data. The minister revealed that Child and Family Services does not track school attendance for the children that they are responsible for. The report indicates that these children already receive a poor start in school. The department has indicated that they don't care if the children even attend school. It appears that this government has set these children up for failure.

Why does this government not care enough about the children in its care to even keep track of the information? Mr. Allum: Well, Mr. Speaker, when we commissioned this report, what we wante d to do is make sure that we had the best evidence- based analysis from top experts in Manitoba to ensure that we properly understood the various challenges facing those children and to make sure that we embraced whatever possible avenues to improve their educa - tional outcomes. Mr.

Speaker, on our side of the House we have invested in education every single year that we have been in government, and every single year when we invest in education the members opposite vote against those particular investments. We're trying to improve the education system for every child in Manitoba; they appear to not be on the side of any child in Manitoba. Mr. Wishart: Mr. Speaker, it would appear the minister thinks the best way to make the right choice is not keep track of the information.

With the high school graduation rate of only 33 per cent, kids in the care of CFS are given anything but the good start in life they deserve. Kids who have had no contact with CFS have a graduation rate of 89 per cent. This is a huge difference. How can this government claim they are doing a good job with kids in care with only a 33 per cent graduation rate? Mr. Allum: I'm glad to hear that the member finally acknowledged that our graduation rates have gone from 71 per cent to upwards of 87 per cent in Manitoba.

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1755 We make every effort on this side of the House to ensure a quality education for every child in Manitoba. When the –when it became clear that we needed proper, evidence- based analysis, we asked the centre to do the necessary res earch and then we would move on to an important task force that brings educators and social service workers together along with other stakeholders –and the community, by the way–in order to ensure that we get the best collective result for those children. On this side of the House, Mr.

Speaker, we're going to continue to stand behind those children, work with community and ensure good outcomes for every kid in Manitoba. Healthy Baby Initiative Program Funding Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, Healthy Baby is a program for young mothers and their newborn babies that has been delivered by Healthy Child for many years. In fact, the concept was originated by the MLA for River East. I'm sure all members of this House will miss her when she retires this year. Now, this service is being threatened by this minister's relentless cuts to front- line service.

Facilitators are being cut by two thirds and real people who have held those positions for 10 years are being forced to compete for the few remaining jobs. Mr. Speaker, why is this minister cutting front-line services to those young mothers and their babies? Hon. Melanie Wight (Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities ): I'm happy to have the opportunity to speak to this program. It's one of the best programs we have going in Manitoba. [interjection] Thank you. I have no problem acknowledging the member opposite for coming up with it; it's an excellent idea.

Healthy Baby program offers health and wellness information, support and 'resear se', g roup sessions to pregnant women and their families, new parents. It's one of our signature programs, and we're very, very proud that we have continued it and it has touched many, many thousands of people over the years. So we're very grateful. We can't str ess enough what an excellent program it is. The Manitoba Prenatal Benefit is part of Healthy Baby, which provides a financial benefit– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Helwer: Mr.

Speaker, there 's no question it's a good program, but facilitators in the Healthy Baby program will now have to travel over 100 kilometres just to deliver what remains of the program. They will do three times the work delivered by one third of the staff and spend hours on the road to do so. * (14:10) This is a program that helps to keep families united and together and out of the CFS system. These front-line service workers are not feeling the Health Minister's happy thoughts. They and the young mothers and their babie s are victims of the minister's relentless mean -spirited cuts to front -line services.

Why does this minister continue to cut front -line services? Ms. Wight : Mr. Speaker, we have not cut this program, so I don't actually know what the member opposite is speaking of. But in 2013- 2014, for example, Mr. Speaker, over 3,688 women received the Manitoba Prenatal Benefit from –and recently, in fact, we just did an expansion also of Families First, which is another program that works with families early on, which we believe is the answer to really reach families at the beginning, in fact, prenatally is our goal. And that's what we're doing with all of our programming.

And we just increased Families First, for example, are working in one of the communities in order to bring that program closer to home for folks. So I'm happy to keep having a chance to talk about these– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Helwer: Well, Mr. Speaker, obviously, the minister is confused about what programs and what's going on out there. These cuts are not a–the fictitious rewrite of history spewed out by this minister's propaganda machine. They are real cuts happening to real people in real time, now.

That time is now, not some al ternate universe 20 years ago in the minister's–Health Minister's happy mind. Mr. Speaker, will this minister stop her attacks and cuts to Manitoba's front -line services and help those young mothers and their newborn babies?

1756 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 Ms. Wight : Well, I'm mystifie d by what the –what he's talking about. But I'm not mystified, Mr. Speaker, by what would happen if members opposite were to come into power. We know what happened under their watch: $48 million was cut back in child tax benefits from these same people. And quite honestly, I find it disturbing that they have even the gall to be speaking about things when they're talking about bringing half a billion dollars in cuts. That is not going to be helping our babies. It's not going to be helping our families.

And we need to be continuing to do the very things that we're doing here that make our families happier and healthier families. Hydro Projections Rate Increases Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, let's talk about profit and loss at Manitoba Hydro for a moment. In 2019, Hydro's projected a loss of $75 million; 2020, a loss of $102 million; 2021, a loss of $164 million; 2022, projecting a loss of $192 million. All these losses are projected on top of a 4 per cent compound rate increase each and every year. That's more than half a billion dollars in losses in just four years.

Will the minister stop this billion -dollar boondoggle? It's a prime example of spending more and putting more debt on hard-working Manitobans. Hon. James Allum (Acting Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): Mr. Speaker, of course, when the member asks a question about Hydro, the first thing he needs to acknowledge that –is that Manitoba Hydro has among the lowe st rates in Canada. And then he needs to acknowledge that when you put that together with home heating and car insurance and hydro, you have the lowest bundle of utility rates in Canada. Mr.

Speaker, we invest in hydro because we want to make sure that t here is a clean, reliable source of energy for Manitobans for generations to come. The member opposite clearly prefers to keep Manitobans in the dark. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, they're spending more on making the hydro rates higher each and every month, that side of the House. Losses continue: In 2023, projected loss, $174 million; '24, losses of $109 million; 2025, $38 million; 2026, $9 million. All those losses despite 4 per cent compound rate increases each and every year. That's another $330 million losses in just four years.

That brings the total to nearly $1 billion in eight years. Will the minister commit to stop the boondoggle on Manitoba hard-working families? Mr. Allum: Well, the only boondoggle in this House is the agenda of the Leader of th e Opposition and all of his members in caucus, who have one agenda when it comes to Hydro, and that's to privatize one of our most valuable Crown corporations. Let's remember the history of that side of the House. When it came to the phone company, they said they weren't going to do anything with it, then they privatized it. They tried to privatize home care; we wouldn't let them do that.

Last week they said they're going to privatize child care, and then there's– going to privatize social investments into our community. The only boondoggle, the only lack of candour on–when it comes to Hydro in this House is on that side of the House that won't share their hidden agenda with the rest of Manitoba. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, let me tell the minister opposite what the Hydro employees have brought to my attention, and I'll say what he told me. What the NDP have done to Hydro is nothing short of criminal. A rainy day fund in hundreds of million dollars that were raided.

Not satisfied with that, they beefe d up water rental fees; each gallon that flows through is taxed six times. The NDP made decisions based on fairy tales that go against the advice of any engineer, a person that has a brain in their head. The NDP really have misled people of Manitoba on a monumental scale. I'd like to ask the minister: What does he say to hard-working Manitobans and one of his own Hydro employees? Mr. Allum: Mr. Speaker, what I'll say to those folks is that they have the –among the lowest rates in Canada.

We're protecting their jobs and we're providing a secure source of clean, reliable energy for years to come. Mr. Speaker, the members opposite want to privatize Manitoba Hydro. Why don't they just say it? Because the reality is they don't want to invest in

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1757 hydro; they don't want to export to the States; they don't want to work with First Nations; they don't want development in the North. The only thing they want is to turn off the lights in Manitoba and leave Manitobans in the dark, and on this side of the House we're never going to let that happen. Information Technology Systems Auditor General's Recommendations Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, as episodes around the world have emphasized, ensuring security of information technology systems must be at the very top of a government's agenda.

In Manitoba, today's government is responsible for many systems with highly sensitive information, including child abuse records, witness protection records, Cabinet minutes, pretrial prosecution files, as examples. The Auditor General, in his recent report, emphasizes that far too many of his recom - mendations have not been completed, that the government is moving far too slow and is not taking this issue seriously. Why has the government failed to pay adequate attention to the security of provincial information technology systems? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, I appreciate the question from the member for River Heights. The Auditor General has given us the report on how to improve information protection. The response from the government has been–is that they take that seriously. They are making very significant investments in information protection as well as new technologies for the transfer and protection of information in Manitoba. Many of these projects are long -term projects that have long-term investment horizons, but we clearly have taken the recommendations seriously and have our own program to protect information.

Every single day governments around the world, including this one, have hackers trying to break into the system. We're aware of that, which is why we are one of the first jurisdictions to set up an Information Protection Centre with some of the best expertise anywhere in North America. They work every day to put systems in place to stop hackers accessing our information. Technology evolves every single day. Software evolves every single day. It's a constant battle out there to protect that information.

Our folks are fully seized of the challenge of doing that and we are making significant investments to support them in doing that, and we'll continue to do so in the future. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General's report was more than two years ago. Last week the Auditor General reported on what had been actually implemented, and he found that far too little had actually been implemented.

The recommendations which the government has failed to complete include that the Information Protection Centre, which the Premier talks about, should actually establish standard IT securi ty requirements and that the government's BTT should develop and implement minimum physical security requirements for data centres. * (14:20) You know, why aren't these in place? Common sense, sensible measures. Why aren't they in place years ago and wh y are they still not in place two years after the Auditor General said they needed to be in place quickly? Mr.

Selinger: Forty-seven recommendations were made by the Office of the Auditor General; 11 have been implemented, 35 are a work in process, and one is they have not agreed with it and prepared to have more dialogue on it. The Information Protection Centre has very highly qualified and skilled people that spend all of their time making sure the information in this government is protected from hacke rs, from people that want to use it for purposes against the public interest and against the private interests of the individuals whose information we are protecting, and we will continue to do that.

We've seen many threats over the years, thousands of threats on an annual basis, and that is going on all around the world. There's a whole cyber world out there of attempts to bust into systems to compromise information. Our folks have done a very good job in that. They know they can make further improvements. Every single day there are new techniques being advanced by doing that. We just funded a cyber -security academy at Sisler High School and that academy is producing some of the best cyber -security young people anywhere in North America.

That academy is open to anybody in Winnipeg or, indeed, Manitoba that wants to attend it. That is a state -of-the-art academy

1758 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 in a high school with support from the University of Winnipeg and Red River community college. Very few– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourabl e First Minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, two years and only 11 of 47 recommendations implemented; that's only about 25 per cent. Twenty -five is way below 50 per cent; that's a failure rate by any standard.

Efficient, effective and secure IT systems are really critical to good government, but this government has had problems from the beginning with broadband access, with co- ordinated and effective health information systems, with emer - gency medical information systems, with infor - mation systems for CFS and many more. Today's NDP needs to act and not just to prevaricate. Mr. Speaker, when will the Premier complete all 47 recommendations, or even if he doesn't complete one, all 46 of what they say they want to co mplete? When–when–when? Mr. Selinger: As I've said, we've –we take the recommendations seriously.

Our technical people that look after information protection are acting on those recommendations. They've completed 11; 35 are in process; one they wish to di scuss further with the Auditor General. The member's completely–and we will be happy to discuss this at the Public Accounts Committee and we can go into detail on that if he wishes. He needs to know that we have a very skilled workforce working on this i n Manitoba. We've made very significant investments in IT protection and infor - mation protection in Manitoba.

We are modernizing legislation to do that, including for the new archives which will protect the information for residential schools in Manitoba . And we have a bill in front of the Legislature. We'd like to see that bill passed right now so we can have that information protected and properly supported in Manitoba. All the members of the opposition have to do, Mr. Speaker, is they can support the budget. They could support the bill.

If they support the budget, more investments will be made in IT protection, more investments will be made in high schools in places like the cyber -security academy and we'll be ready to move on the bill immediately. Workers' Compensation PTSD Legislation Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Mr. Speaker, our government believes in supporting working Manitobans in all occupations. On Monday, the Premier (Mr.

Selinger) and Minister of Labour and Immigration announced groundbreaking workers' compensation legislation that seeks to help any worker who faces traumatic incidents in the workplace that can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder. Can the minister tell us more about this first-in-Canada legislation? Hon. Erna Braun (Mi nister of Labour and Immigration): Monday, indeed, was a great day.

The Premier and I were joined by members of MGEU, the Paramedic Association of Manitoba, UFFW and the Manitoba Nurses Union to announce new presumption legislation for workers who suffer traumatic events at the workplace that result in PTSD. This first -in-Canada legislation will recognize PTSD as a work -related occupational disease and the Workers Compensation Board will presume their condition was caused by the job, making it much easier to access supports, treatment and compensation.

Psychological injuries can happen absolutely –to absolutely anyone regardless of what they do for a living, and our government believes all workers deserve timely access to compensation and support services. Our goal is to ensure that workers with PTSD receive the treatment they need– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: It is now t ime for members' statements. Alison Desjardins Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask yourself and the rest of my colleagues in this Chamber to take a moment to join me in congratulating Alison Desjardins from Birtle. She re ceived the Manitoba Society of Pharmacists Award of Merit on April 18th.

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1759 The award of merit is presented to a member of the Manitoba Society of Pharmacists that actively participates and promotes contributions that benefit the society and the profession of pharmacy. Alison has served in many roles including second vice-president, sitting on the board of directors and chairing numerous committees since she graduated from pharmacy at the University of Manitoba in 1995. Alison describes the pharmacy in a rur al community as being one of the only real constants in health care while many doctors come and go.

Along with her husband Steve, Alison has spent the last 15 years as the owner and manager of the Birtle Pharmacy. On June 19th, the business is having an official grand opening of their new location. It was clear to the couple that they had outgrown their old location, and in order to provide more professional pharmacy services, they built a new one. Taking the plunge and building a new pharmacy in what Alis on calls, and the community agrees, is an investment in the Birtle and surrounding area.

In addition to running the pharmacy and raising three active boys, Alison and Steve invest countless volunteer hours into the community. Alison is a board member and volunteer for the local palliative care committee, sits on the donor choice committee and has served on various other health committees as they come up. Meanwhile, Steve runs a local motel called the Desjard -Inn and has been president of the rink board and minor hockey, on the executive of minor ball and the fitness centre and is a Lions Club member.

I would like to thank Alison and Steve for all their hard work in the –within the community of Birtle and say congratulations again on her well-deserved award of merit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Fort Garry Community Network Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): In south Winnipeg, we are very fortunate to be home to the Fort Garry Community Network. The network was established in 1999 to identif y the needs of community and develop ways to address these needs by creating a stronger and healthier community for everyone.

In particular, the Fort Garry Community Network promotes the healthy development of children, youth, seniors and families. The network is made up of service providers and residents within the WRHA Fort Garry catchment area, which includes Fort Garry, Fort Richmond, St. Norbert, Whyte Ridge, Linden Woods and Waverley West. Members meet regularly to share community news, identify loc al issues and share resources. The network schedules guest speakers to provide members with the opportunity to continue learning about resources that are available to them and the residents of their neighbourhoods.

The network's newcomer advisory committe e supports programs for new immigrants, identifies gaps in services and provides support to the neigh- bourhood settlement worker. This committee plays a valuable role as the neighbourhood settlement worker welcomes newcomers to our community and assists them in accessing resources. Through the years, the network has supported programs for seniors, after- school programs for children with disabilities, neighbourhood family centres for preschool children and their families and youth recreation programs.

Since it began in 1999, the Fort Garry Community Network has proven to be an invaluable resource to south Winnipeg. It continues to bring organizations, service providers and interested residents together, working towards a common goal of creating a vibrant and healthy community. 55 Plus Games Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, every year, hundreds of Manitobans aged 55 and over gather in one of our communities to participate and compete in a wide range of events to promote and encourage healthy and active living among our seniors.

I am proud to say that this year, the community of Beausejour will be hosting the 33rd annual Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries 55 Plus Games on June 16th to 18th. The Manitoba Society of Seniors hosted the first 55 Plus Gam es in 1983 and, after many successful years, in 2011 handed the reins over to Active Living Coalition for Older Adults in Manitoba who continue the success. The 55 Plus Games provide activities that encourage not only physical and recreational participation but also promote entertainment events including a variety concert and an athletes' banquet where seniors can socialize among their peers.

The theme of this year's 55 Plus Games is Never Too Old To Play. It is an appropriate theme as there are female and male participants who are over 90 years of age. * (14:30)

1760 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 A number of seniors enjoy the experience of the 55 Plus Games so that –so much that they travel to wherever the games are being held to participate. It is expected that more than 1,000 athletes wi ll be competing in over 25 events that range from snooker to slo-pitch. The community of Beausejour is not new to hosting international or provincial events and the success of these events are largely due to the dedication, experience and commitment of our volunteers.

Our community volunteers offer and provide a level of excellence that is comparable to events held in large urban centres, and I can promise that the 33rd Manitoba 55 Plus Games will be another success to add to the list. I would like to tha nk the Beausejour host com - mittee and the long list of volunteers, community accommodation hosts, the Town of Beausejour, RM of Brokenhead and all the local businesses who continue to support and welcome special events like the Manitoba 55 Plus Games. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I ask leave of the House to enter the organizing committee's names and their positions for this year's event. Mr.

Speaker: Is there leave of the House to include the names that the honourable member referenced in his me mbers' statements in today's Hansard? [Agreed] Chair, Bruce Schade ; Co-Chair/Treasurer, Bunn Baxter; Headquarters Chair, Karen Berry; Banquet Chair, Louise Keefe; Sport Chair, Stan Pleskach; Awards Chair, Russell Wychreschuk; Equipment Chair, Charlie Relf ; Medical Chair, Donna Ray-Litke; Sponsorship/Advertising Chair, Rick Steffanson; Transportation Chair, Al Hunnie; Secretary, Donna Demarco. Flintabbatey Flonatin Mr.

Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): I have been looking forward to giving this member's statement all session. Back in March, Travel Manitoba put on the Roadside Madness competition, pitting prairie giants from all over Manitoba against each other to find out which one of these iconic statues is most popular. You may already have guessed who won the competition since I'm giving this statement, and you would be right. The grand champion at the end of the day was none other than Flin Flon's fabulous famous figure, Flintabbatey Flonatin.

The competition was held in a single elimination format, and people from across the province were able to cast their votes for their favourite roadside attraction. In each consecutive round, the attraction that received the most votes moved on to the next round. It seems that Flinty was a crowd favourite right from the start. In the first round of the competition he sped past McCreary's Alpine Archie with ease. In the next round, Flinty was matched up against Dauphin's Beaver, who tried to take a bite out of him but couldn't hack it.

In the quarter -final round, Giml i Viking gave him a good fight but Flinty ended up giving him the axe. The semifinals saw Flinty matched up against Erickson's Viking Ship, which he scuttled with ease. It was the final round that was truly a matchup of titans: Flintabbatey Flonatin ver sus Glenboro's Sara the Camel. In the end just over 7,000 Manitobans cast their vote and helped Flinty leave Sarah standing in the dust hogtied. I know that all 32 communities in Manitoba who are home to roadside attractions are very proud of their gian ts.

From Churchill's polar bear to Steinbach's Rolls Royce, these statues are full of charm and they often tell a story of their town. But Flintabbatey Flonatin wasn't worried about their charm. He tamed the polar bear and crushed the Rolls. Flinty really doesn't like to gloat; he's far too modest for that, so I have to do the gloating for him. There can no longer be any doubt as to which town has the greatest attraction, and I think Flinty wears that honour well. Thank you. Today's NDP Hon. Jon Gerrard ( River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, Manitoba is receiving a lot of global attention in the last week, and not all of it is complimentary. It's nice that we have the FIFA World Cup happening here and the Canadian museum of human rights is popular, but when the M inister for Infrastructure pipes up and says that under today's NDP we have one of the most dysfunctional legislatures in the world and one of our noted scientists, Dr. Marni Brownell, says Manitoba has one of the highest rates of children in care in the world, we had better pay attention. The comments of the Minister for Infrastructure and of Dr. Brownell are likely related.

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1761 With government dysfunction contributing to poor outcomes for children, the report of Dr. Brownell points out that the children in the care of today's NDP government, for whom the government is the guardian, are not faring well. They are getting a poor start in life. By the time they enter school, a large proportion, 53 per cent, are not ready for school; they are already behind. During school, on many measures, they remain behind. Children in care scored lower on math and reading assessments in grades 3, 7 and 8 and on achievement tests taken in grade 12.

Less than one third graduated from high school. Today's NDP are all talk and no action. The government talks about helping families but at the same time makes a large effort to apprehend many more children from their families and put more of them into care. The government talks about being better organized but one of their own ministers stands up to say that this is one of the most disorganized governments– An Honourable Member: Point of order. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Official Opposition House Leader): Mr.

Speake r, the member for River Heights, and I hesitate to interrupt him, but he's referred three times to a matter that you've taken under advisement and I'd ask that he be cautioned, please. Mr.

Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for –the Official Opposition House Leader, I was going to allow the member for River Heights to conclude his remarks before I caution the House, because I clearly heard at the beginning of the member's statement where the honourable member for River Heights said he had referenced the matter I have taken under advisement and have not yet provided a ruling to the House. So I'm going to caution the honourable member for River Heights to not make reference while this matter is under consideration by the Speaker.

And I thank the honourable member –Official Opposition House Leader for his point of order. So I'm going to caution the honourable member for River Heights to quickly conclude your member statement, please, and to not r eference the matter under consideration. * * * Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, as I noted in question period, we have a government which has not been able to implement important recommendations from the Auditor General to address the information technology needs of our province which are central to improve organization and function. In this and many other matters we need improvement.

It's time to change the government. It's time for a Liberal government. Mr. Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no grievances, orders of the day, government business. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Could we resolve the House into Committee of Supply in three sections of the Legislature: the Legislative Chamber, 254 and 255. Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply. Madam Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair, and the various committee Chairs to the committee rooms.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) HEALTH, HEALTHY LIVING AND SENIORS * (14:50) Mr. Chairperson (Rob Altemeyer): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the ever-exciting Department of Health, Healthy Living and Seniors. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. And I understand the minister has some answers to put on the record that the critic had asked for previously, so, with the committee's permission, we'll start there. Thank you very much. Hon. Sharon Blady (Minister of Health): I begin by tabling the document that was requested regarding

1762 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 the staff for my office and that of the deputy minister's office. Mr. Chairperson: Do you have three copies? Ms. Blady: Oh, yes. Three copies. Here we go. And I was just also wanting to know, again– and this is about furthering the ability to communicate between our two offices –I know that my staff often interacts with the member's staff and to resolve constituency concerns, and just want ed to confirm if she'd be able to provide the names of her staff to us as well so that we can make sure that we are in communication with the right folks.

And the second part of it, there was a question regarding the square footage for the new Grace emergency department compared to the current. The current size of the Grace emergency department is approximately 10,000 square feet, not including the ambulance carport. The new emergency department will be approximately 38,000 square feet, which includes a 2 ,700-square-foot ambulance garage and 3,000 square feet of circulation space, which is the public corridor which is access –to the ACCESS centre, the MRI and main hospital lobby. So the increase is one of approximately 28,000 square feet.

And I know that community members from all over west Winnipeg are really excited about these new developments at the Grace, and, again, it was in talking to folks at the gala that I could–saw how they were really looking forward to the improvements there and the–seeing th ose kinds of expansions happening at the Grace. So I think that was everything in follow-up. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Recognizing which–I've got two hands –honour- able member for River East. Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I just have a couple of short questions for information from the minister.

I wonder if she could indicate to me when the prenatal program was cut from the River East ACCESS Centre. I'm understanding that there no longer are prenatal classes running at that facility. Ms. Blady : I'd like to thank the member for the question.

This–looking back at my notes, there was a similar question last week regarding a discussion of cuts to services at the Birth Centre, and I was able to get information there that, in fact, none of the programs that had been alleged to be cut were, in fact, cut at all –just having staff connect with the ACCESS centre and RHA to see if there have been any programming changes related to that program.

I can say that it was actually very nice to be o ut at an ACCESS centre today, because one of –the ACCESS centres are now being connected into part of our cancer hub, so it's–that's one of the things that I have to say that I really like about the ACCESS centre is the breadth of programming that's availab le there from the primary health -care perspective and whether that's things like the prenatal classes and where that links in to the kinds of supports that we do provide for mothers in terms of maternal care, but now also to be able to offer that immediate access at first sign of suspicion in terms of cancer treatment.

So, again, in terms of the things that have been happening in maternal health care, I know that our dedicated 24 -7 Health Link to maternity units and neonatal intensive cares, you know, expa nded to all of Manitoba's birthing hospitals –it goes to the larger investments in–made in maternal care, including the new Women's Hospital, HSC, and $2 million to further expand the maternity ward at St.

Boniface as well as the opening of the midwife -led Birth Centre in south Winnipeg and expanding midwifery training into southern Manitoba and, as well, for those where there are challenges with conception, introducing a new fertility tax credit, being the second province to do so. So I will endeavour to get the specifics. I–that is, staff are currently trying to connect to see if there have been any programming changes but, as I said, with the previous question along a similar line, we were able to determine that, in fact, no changes had occurred. So. Mrs.

Mitchelson: If I could just follow up, then, because I'm hearing from some fairly reliable sources that work right within the ACCESS centre that the prenatal program has been cut, and so I'm not questioning their comments or their questions–been a significant concern in the northeast quadrant of the city of Winnipeg for families that need that kind of support. So I would ask the minister if she could endeavour to find that out and put it on the record for me.

And I just want her to confirm –she may have had a question around the same kind of issue from elsewhere–that: Has there been any directive from her department in any way that would see prenatal classes throughout the city of Winnipeg or through- out the province being reduced in any way?

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1763 Ms. Blady : I'd like to thank the member for the question, I can tell you, as someone that has benefited greatly by the kinds of prenatal classes that are available in our health-care system, especially the prenatal classes that I was fortunate enough to have with a midwife for the–my second child in 2003 and knowing the value of prenatal classes to, again, some in this very room and what it's meant for their families, that I would not give that kind of directive at all. So I can assure her that there has been no directive from my department in that regard.

Investment in prenatal care is very important, and it is one of those things that, again–it sets the foundation–that a healthy pregnancy leads to a healthy child, and a healthy child can go on and flourish. Mr.

Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : When I, on Monday, was asking questions of the minister, one of the questions asked was about the collaborative emergency centre pilot project that was supposed to be started in Vita at the beginning of 2013, and I wasn't very satisfied with the minister's answer so I got a little passionate about it, but I'll give the minister the opportunity to answer that question again for me. * (15:00) Ms.

Blady: I do thank the member for the question, and it was unfortunate, in terms of the timing, how we got to the end of the day before I was able to give an answer that I can say that I was also satisfied with because in terms of the work that's going on at Vita, I think it's very important in terms of what it means for that community.

And I do appreciate the member's passion and, again, the fact that this has been, as he's mentioned, that I'm now the third minister that you've had to talk to about this, so I want to make sure that we are doing the right thing there and that, in terms of that–the development of that project – I know that we're working actively with the RHA and the community in that regard because of how important it is.

And, again, as you've –again, you are probably more aware than most people that we have, again, made it very clear that we want to be able to test that collaborative emergency care centre model in V ita and that, again, discussions are still under way on how to best staff and formalize the model, and appreciating that our goal would–for it be–for it to be the first site.

And the one thing that I do want to say is that we want to make sure that, in com ing up with this model, that we ensure that as part of that package that position remuneration funding remains in place, so the commitment is to, again, ensure that that position is maintained and filled as well as, again, building the collaborative care model. Mr. Smook: I appreciate the minister's answer, but in the last 18 months we have heard nothing about this. It was supposed to be a pilot project, so I imagine the pilot project is the way the minister gets answers to whether or not it will work.

So by saying that we're trying to make it the right way, well, I think that's the reason of having a pilot project. In the last 18 months I've heard nothing, and yet from the RHA we hear rumblings about, well, they're having a hard time, they're struggling just to get enough doctors to keep the clinic open, so they are not really looking at, right now, opening the emergency, the ER. So this –according to the previous two ministers, this collaborative emergency centre is very important to that southeast, and they stated that it was ready to go within 30 days back in 2013.

It was a matter of 30 or 60 days before they could launch that. All it needed was Treasury Board's approval, from what my understanding is. Is this still the case, or what is happening, because I feel the residents of southeastern Manitoba are getting shafted right now? We have inferior health care for the people out there. It's not right. Ms.

Blady: Well, I just want to, again, thank the member for both the question and, again, the appreciation for the frustration that he and the com - munity must be feeling because, again, in knowing the history of this particular development I know that part of the issue that we have within the department right now is that there has been a change in staffing as to who is the lead on this particular file and some conversations and some direction that were given.

And so we have a new person that is on top of this new file and is looking at, again, the kinds of partnership that exists, what's there, and, agai n, looking at the quality of the proposal and making sure that it does meet the needs, so that is the one thing that I can assure the member is that, again, it's about the work that is being done. So, in terms of comments relative to Treasury Board, I can tell the member that those things are taken very seriously and that it's always making sure that any proposals that are brought forth are strong.

So, if there was more work that needs to be done to tighten up the proposal, I will ensure that direction is given to the department and to the RHA to make sure that we do have the right things in place to make sure

1764 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 that we can, again, pilot this here in Vita, because I do believe that the need for front -line services is something that, again, your concern for is valid and that we can move forward on. I would like to see it done, you know, in a timely manner as well. I don't want any Manitobans at risk for lack of front -line services. Mr. Smook: Would the minister be able to provide me or show me where in the budget there is money set aside for this project? Ms.

Blady: I just wanted to thank the member again for the question, and as I–I think what I'd said earlier, just to clarify, was that the financial resources for the physician remuneration funding are allot ted for. And, again, wanting to make sure that those remain in place as this moves forward, and, again, that this project, like any other capital investment project, would, as indicated, go to TB and seek–would be approved there. Mr. Smook : Yes, Ms.

Min ister, I can see where you've kept money aside for the doctor, that's what they're saying, but where does it show in there that there's actually money for this test project? I mean, this goes to show the inability –I mean, three years, and nothing has bee n done. The leadership–would the minister be able to provide me with any documentation to show that there has been work done on this file in the last three years or two and a half years, whatever it might be? Because, I mean, the people of southeastern Manitoba are very frustrated. They feel that they deserve more than they're getting.

And two ministers have come out and made promises, first of all, that the closure would be no more than 30 days, now it's led up to almost three years. They promised a collaborative emergency centre. That is not happening. I mean, where's the management? Just because a leader has left from someplace in the department, there was no files to provide to the next person that could read up on it and bring it back? I mean, p rovide me some documentation to prove that this is the fact, that it's not just an answer that I can't do anything about. Ms. Blady : I'd like to thank the member for the question.

Again, and I want to thank him for his passion and the concern. And, in ter ms of his concern regarding the one individual or the change in leadership, yes, there are, in fact, files that do get passed on. In terms of the kind of documentation that he is requesting, I will just remind him that we do have confidentiality issues around Treasury Board submissions, but I will endeavour to get an update from the department with whichever documents are available to support to let him know where the project is at, at this point, and how it's moving forward.

Because, again, as the local MLA, I want to make sure that you are as much in the loop as to how this is going forward and to be able to clarify so that when you get information from other sources, that you know that you've got a solid line of information. Mr. Smook: Thank you, Ms . Minister. I appreciate the answer, and it sounds like you are committing to having this as a test–like, a pilot project in the –at the Vita hospital, which is great. Would the minister be able to give me some timelines?

Which, obviously, the minister co ntrols a lot of things, like, I know we're short of advanced-care paramedics in rural Manitoba, but there's enough of them in Winnipeg that they could probably steal a few of them or whatever from the next graduating class and make sure that they go directly to a pilot project at the Vita hospital. So I'd like the minister to put on record some timelines and for sure that this will happen. * (15:10) Ms. Blady: Okay, well, I'd like to thank the member again for the question.

In terms of the timeline information, I can assure the member that the information that we will be getting for him will include such information and that, again, one of the issues with a project like this is, in fact, the staffing issue. So that, again, you know, it's about people applying for the jobs that are posted. So, again, we'll get the timelines out but with the understanding, knowing that there's always some flexibility in RFP's hirings, et cetera. So we will get you information that has as accurate a timeline or projected timeline as possible. Mr.

Smook: I would like to thank the minister for the information, but I'd also like to see if the minister could facilitate, because I know it's always between the minister's office, the RHA and the community. I was wondering if the mi nister would be interested in facilitating a meeting between the RHA, Kathy McPhail, the minister, myself and possibly one or two representatives from the community, and I think when you have three people in the room, everybody who's in charge, we can make decisions that we don't

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1765 pass the buck from one to another. And I would ask the minister if she'd be interested in facilitating that. Ms. Blady: I think that works for me. Let's get our calendars together. I'll talk to the CEO, and let's see what we can put together because, again, if we can get together and we can meet –like I said, I've really enjoyed meeting with folks from your area in terms of the AMM, and I know that I've had opportunity to meet with, actually, with some of the members opposite that are here today.

And I think that a lot of times we've made a lot of really good progress in terms of having that connection on a –on the ground, for those folks that are on the ground and have the best sense of what's going on in their neighbourhood. So I will get my staff within the department to find a time that we can put that together. And that might be opportunity to pass on the information that you've requested, or if we can get it to you sooner, we will, that you'd have it in preparation for the meeting. Mr. Smook: I just would like to thank the minister. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairperson: Very good.

Moving down the table, honourable member for Riding Mountain. Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): I have a couple questions with regard to personal -care-home issues within my area, and it would be Prairie Mountain Health. And I appreciated the minister's comments with regard to being kept in the loop and clarifying any issues that are being raised because that's exactly where I'm going, and I look forward to getting some clarification. With regard to No. 1, the–with regard to number of care hours per patient per day, can the minister indicate to me how those numbers are developed? What type of formula is used?

For example, several personal-care homes within the Prairie Mountain region have staff -care levels that are around 3.6 hours per patient, and according to one staff person within one of my RHAs who was very concerned because indicated that wasn't even close to accurate; in fact, she indicated that an estimate time for a patient classified as a level 3, 4 –or to a 4 –is actually getting only 95 minutes of care per day on her–in her ratio. And I think that's alarming.

So I'm wanting to know if the minister can comment on what was shared with me in a recent meeting and also clarify what the formula is use – what formula they use. Ms. Blady: Well, I'd like to thank the member for the question. And I guess I would first like to begin by asking that if there is a particular case that has come up where someone has not lived up to the standards –we have a standard that is required of 3.6 hours per resident day. That's the –and if that is not happening, then that's something that needs to be investigated.

So I would ask if she could pass on all information that she has that she thinks would be useful to my office so that we can pursue this. Because, again, the kind of care that we want for our friends and families in PCHs, sounds like that is not living up the standard that I would want and expect for folks. Mrs. Rowat: Based on what I'm hearing from staff, that's not an isolated incident. There are issues like this happening on a continual basis, and these issues have been raised with management and don't appear to be listened to.

And when I've been questioning management with regard to FIPPAs and requests, I'm actually receiving varied information and being told that–the responses I'm getting from management within the RHA is not accurate. So I'm asking now for the minister to intervene and do some asking on my behalf and, also, obviously, the resident's behalf, because the services aren't being provided. The next question is with regard to standards review procedures being scheduled. There's been several concerns raised with regard to that process.

I understand that standard reviews, when they are considered unannounced standard reviews, should be such. My understanding is that that is not the case in some of the personal -care homes that I represent within my riding, that actually the standards reviews are being shared –the unannounced ones are being shared and prep work is being done ahead of time. So is this common practice, that unannounced standard reviews are actually being shared ahead of time? * (15:20) Ms. Blady: Like–again, I'd like to thank the member for the question.

That I can assure her that in terms of the standards review procedure and how scheduling works, that is part of a continuous quality - improvement aspect. There's a combination of both scheduled and unannounced visits. So they do a combination of both of the m so that, again, I think it's probably the fairest way of being able to do it so that, again, things are –when a visit occurs, we're

1766 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 seeing what's actually happening on the ground, especially in an unscheduled visit. Now, regarding the sharing of findings, if there's a situation where there has been a visit to a PCH and where something can be –where the system can learn from the findings there, what happens is those findings are shared but they are shared within a manner where it becomes, I guess you say, generic.

The information, the findings, are not shared in a way that would involve any kind of –the ability to identify anything that could lead to any sort of blaming or shaming, that kind of thing. It's the here's a learning moment. We're going to have it described in a manner that allows for it to be shared without breaching confidentiality but be something by where–by which the system can learn from it. So they don't want–we don't want to sit on any valuable information that could help other PCHs. Mrs.

Rowat: I'm familiar with the outcomes, but my concern that has been raised to me–or the concern that's been raised to me, which is very concerning to me, is the process and the–process of scheduling, the standards review procedures.

And, I guess, does the minister think that it's fair that the PCHs have time to prepare for an unannounced standards review when a lot of the staff are saying, we're supposed to be already meeting those at all times, so why are we being told an un- announced standards review process–or procedure is going to be taking place on such and such a day so we need to get ready for this because they will be coming in? And the nurses are saying, we have to meet these standards all the time. Why are we being put–all tasks are being put to the side until we can reach those requirements–point No. 1.

Point No. 2 is why are we learning of an unannounced standards review process ahead of time. You know, that is actually, you know, in contradiction of the title. So, you know, I'm wanting the minister to just be concerned as I am with regard to this breach of protocol with regard to this process. Ms. Blady: Again, I'd like to thank the member for the question because, again, the unannounced reviews, when they are planned, they are planned in conjunction with the RHA program staff as they participate on the review team, but the facility is not aware or they should not be aware.

So, again, if you have examples of that, if there's any information, individuals you–that you feel we can contact to clarify that, because, again, I want the unannounced ones to be exactly that for the very reasons that you mention, that these are the standards that are supposed to be in place. That is what people are supposed to be doing, and the whole point of an unannounced visit is, in fact, that it is unannounced. Mrs. Rowat: I think I've got an example of why the unannounced might be preannounced. Minnedosa had a leaking roof, which has been an ongoing issue for over five years.

It has never been put on the priorities list by the Prairie Mountain Health, even though there have been a number of safety and security issues with regard to that happening. When I asked the RHA with regard to where it is on the list for–of priorities, the list I received did not include the Minnedosa hospital. And, when you have a situation where there have been strategically placed buckets to keep water off the floor, you know the standards aren't being met. It's not safe for staff; it's not safe for residents. And, you know, a roof repair is required.

What happens is when the standard review occurs, they patch. My understanding, and this is what I've been told by staff, is that they patch the roof until the review is done and then off they go and then nothing gets done. My concern is two parts: No. 1, when I asked the RHA and Brian Schoonbaert responded to me in a letter saying, this is the first I've heard of this incident, staff were outraged because that was an outright misrepresentation of what they raised with me, because it was wrong.

Number 2, it looks like they're trying to circumvent a standard review process, and I'm angry about this because the residents are suffering from this and the staff are have–being put in a very difficult situation. And when I get the RHA sending the MLA a letter which is absolutely false, I think the minister should be made aware of it and I'm sharing that with you. So here's the reason why I think that that has happened. So now I'm going to go into another situation where there's been a resident's ro om with no heat through most of the winter. Again, I was told this is not happening.

There was no critical incident report made or followed up on by the department. The family actually had to bring in a heater to keep the resident warm. I again was told that this was not correct, that this was not the truth, when I know from the family member that they did purchase a heater.

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1767 They did provide the heat within the room. This was confirmed by staff within the facility and, again, there didn't appear to be any r ecord of incident reports and maintenance requests were not responded to. So, again, I ask the minister, you know, will she confirm for me that she will follow up on my concerns that have been raised by the staff and the family members within that facility? Ms. Blady: I do definitely want to thank the member for the question because, again, we will look into the Minnedosa concerns.

And I just want to make sure that in light of the two concerns, is this the same facility that had the unannounced visit concerns? An Honourable Member: Yes. Ms. Blady: Okay, any and all information that you can provide or that correspondence, et cetera, anything that you think will help in our –in terms of our investigation and follow -up, I would appreciate you passing on to staff, because I expect families and residents to receive the best care poss ible. And, if they're not and if there's something that can be investigated, then, yes, we will follow up with that. Mrs.

Rowat: This is not just one facility and, I guess, when I –raising this and I'm being specific to one facility with a couple of incide nts, this is not the only facility in my constituency that is facing these types of issues. I know for a fact Russell hospital –or Russell personal care has –facing the same types of issues. They're aged facilities. The staff are doing the best they can, a nd I am very concerned that if standard review procedures are not being followed properly, that unannounced reviews are being done and being done once –little patchwork, you know, things are being completed.

Then you're not –they're not supporting anybody. They're not helping the residents. They're not supporting the staff and they're undermining the needs within the communities that deserve better. And so I appreciate the minister's agreement to look into this and I'm looking forward to further dialogue with her. Ms. Blady: Again, just want to thank her, and you mentioned now the Russell facility. Again, any information regardless of which facility it's at, again, please follow up, connect with my staff, and we'll pursue this. * (15:30) Mrs.

Mitchelson: Just to follow up on some of those questions, when reviews are done or inspections are done, where are they reported? Is there an inventory, and can the minister tell me how many of the reviews that are done indicate that standards are being met? Or do w e have some sort of reporting procedure and is that kind of report made public? Ms. Blady : I'd like to thank the member for the question.

In regards to the reporting of, you know, what happens in an inspection and what findings are there, as mentioned be fore, again, if there is a learning opportunity that's there, that information is shared in a manner that, again, allows for system learning without violating any kind of confidentiality. In terms of this –the information being collected and how it's being reported, I can assure the member that part of what happens with that information is it's used regarding any future licensing, so it's what makes a difference between whether a licence is renewed or not.

And having brought in the PCH standards in 2005 and having put them into law, which was, again, a significant achievement according to the Auditor General at the time, that there–as discussed earlier, the visits are every two years to be inspected against standards including infection control, involving residents and family in terms of care, restraint use and ensuring a safe and secure resident environment as well as a safe and secure working environment for those providing care. The unannounced visits–again, the unannounced inspections, again, began in 2004, and we've, again, increased the frequency of those.

Now, should a facility not meet a standard, they are required to develop an action plan within 60 days and implement it within another 60 days. And at any point in this time, Manitoba Health may perform an unannounced visit to check up on the facility and ensure that the action plan is under way. Now, the department is actively working on trying to find a way of, in publicly reporting, making reporting of findings as they relate to the long - term-care system, a way that strikes a balance.

The concern is that in wanting to ensure that we view standards–we take it from the approach of, again, this continuous quality improvement approach, so the idea being we want to make sure that we're learning from previous experience but at the same time find this balance where we can learn from previous experience but not –and focus on safety for

1768 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 patients and for those working there, but in terms of findings, not wanting findings in being recorded to look like ther e's a punitive, accusatory perspective. So it's about striking a balance around the respect for the individuals involved as well as the safety. We'd like to create a situation where, again, if we're–what's being done right, what can we learn from what we' re doing right, so that in those places where there is still room for growth and improvement we can take those learnings and, again, make the improvements.

So, but to let her know that there is, again, active work going on, on trying to find the best way of getting that information out there so that it both reflects what might need to change at certain places but, at the same time, does so in a way that's respectful of the hard work that folks do in our personal care homes. Mrs. Mitchelson: So that if facilities are inspected and they're not meeting the standards, they're asked to develop an action plan, they're given 60 days, and then another 60 days?

And I think that was –are there facilities–personal-care-home facilities out there today that have provisional licences only because they haven't met the standards? Ms. Blady: I just want to –it's not information that we have right at hand with all the differ ent licences that are in place, but I will endeavour to get that information. The department will look for that and get that information to the member so that we can get–put accurate information on the record. Mrs. Mitchelson: And I appreciate that answer .

I think it's really important to know, because I do know when–in–sort of in the child care field, in our child-care facilities, if there's not enough –if we don't have the requirement of the appropriate numbers of staff to meet the standards, provisional licences are given, and there are several in the child -care system that have provisional licences because they can't meet the standards, and I'm just asking for that kind of information for our personal care homes. Now, we talked a little bit earlier abo ut the standard for the number of hours of care for level 3 and level 4.

Can the minister indicate to me whether all personal care home facilities are funded to meet the staffing requirements? Are they provided with the appropriate funding to meet those staffing levels? * (15:40) Ms. Blady: Thank the member for the question. In terms of the funding model, you should recall that we fund the RHAs in a global manner. So the RHAs are funded in a global manner and we ask RHAs to ensure that, again, they main tain the practice and the appropriate funding in place for the 3.6 hours per resident day, per resident, regardless of level.

So it's– the funding is not on a per level basis so that, again, it's up to the RHAs to ensure that they are providing funding to t he PCHs within their region at an –in an appropriate fashion and so that is left at their discretion, but if there's a situation where she feels that there is underfunding or inadequate funding, again, I would appreciate any information she has. But, again, the RHA does the funding in a global manner, or they receive their funding in a global manner. Mr. Matt Wiebe, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Mrs.

Mitchelson: Have the RHAs, then, received the appropriate increases in their budgets to accom - modate the increased staffing costs or salaries that are provided to health-care workers that work within our personal -care-home system? Have the regional health authorities received the appropriate increase in funding to accommodate the staffing levels required by standard? Ms.

Blady : Actually, in follow up to a previous question regarding the PCHs and whether there were any PCHs in the province that have been –that have a conditional or a provisional licence, I can assure the member that there are in fact none in that regard, that is, all facilities are currently operating with a full licence. And, to the other aspect of the question regarding staffing that–and funding budgets, I know– I'm just going to check on some exact numbers here, but I'll provide some answers while I wait for the subsequent information from the departmental staff.

Again, part of it is making sure that we have hired more nurses and health- care aides in the personal-care homes to ensure that each resident does get the dedicated staff time. And i t's about adding things like, you know, 1,000 PCH and supportive-housing beds and having hundreds more in development right now. You know, it's one way of ensuring that our loved ones can age safely and closer to home. And, again, every health region in M anitoba does have a variety of specialized units, for example, for those that require secure beds. And so, again, it's

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1769 even things like working with the Alzheimer Society to implement the P.I.E.C.E.S. dementia education program which again, provides Alzhei mer and dementia training to the PCH staff in all our RHAs. And, again, that really empowers caregivers with tools and strategies to better identify and meet the complex care needs of the patients. And what I'm really happy to see is that, in fact, within the RHA, there was an innovative variation done of the P.I.E.C.E.S. program, and it actually helped reduce the use of antipsychotic drugs among PCH patients.

So it's those kinds of things that we've brought into place to ensure the safety, and it's those kinds of investments. And so I hope, again, hope the member appreciates what gets done in terms of the kinds of investments that are made. And, again, just looking at exact budgeting numbers here, if you give me a moment, I'll provide the rest of the answer in a moment.

In response to the member's question regarding the impact on RHA budgets for this kind of –in this particular situation and have they received the necessary increases–how those increases in funding operate are related to the contracts that are negotiated in the collective agreements; for example, the most recent one with MNU is a good example.

And what happens is that the –when the contract is negotiated and if there are any increases, the amount of that increase is then –again, as the RHAs require, indicating how many FTEs, those kinds of things, they come to us with, yes, we have X number of nurses, and so it's based on the funding that's provided to the RHAs for staffing. So that's how the baseline–that's how that funding is moved into the RHA budgets. It's as per what is negotiated within the collective agreement.

And I can say that, again, the most recent collective agreement is one that I know that Manitoba nurses are very happy with, because, again, it was one that was supported by 90 per cent of their members as a four- year agreement. And it did a variety of things, including improving scheduling practices to reduce overtime, for example, and creating a balance of full -time and part-time positions, as well as work- life balance in addition to the remuneration changes. Mr.

Doyle Piwniuk (Arthur-Virden): I just want to ask the minister –I had a –just to let her know that I had a constituent of mine who came to my office, very concerned. Her husband had Alzheimer's. He was–they encouraged–she should panel him into a personal-care home. So what –she was appreciative of that, but when she actually tried to apply for –to panel him into a nursing home –personal-care home, she was told that probably the first available one would be almost an hour and a half away from the town of Virden. It was actually going to be in Wawanesa or Glenboro in the same RHA, which is Prairie Mountain RHA.

So the thing was –but she also was a nurse herself, a retired nurse, and she knows many nurses in the Virden hospi tal and the personal -care home, and she was quite amazed that there was a big waiting list for panelled patients who need to go into personal-care homes, but there was also many beds in the personal -care home that were empty in the town of Virden because of not enough employees – not enough nurses. And the concern that we have in the town is that there's going to be –it's an aging population right now in the–in our constituency.

We have probably one of the highest aging populations in the province, and we al so really require those beds to be opened. And the concern we have is that a lot of the nurses who get work are usually part-time. Some of them would like to have full-time. And this is what –just by talking to Penny Gilson, who was in Melita one –back in Fe bruary, I believe, early February –she was saying that the concern was trying to find nurses. And most of the ones that were posted were part-time nurses.

So what's really the cause of all these personal-care homes being closed, and why can't we find full-time nurses? * (15:50) Mr. Chairperson in the Chair Ms. Blady: Well, first, I want to begin by thanking the member for the question, and I appreciate the personal interest that he does take in looking after his constituents.

And I guess I would begin by saying if there is an issue, and if you'd like to pass on the information of that particular constituent and work with my office to pass on anything about that situation, I would really appreciate that, because if there are issues, as you mention there, we can only investigate them if we have the information by which to begin the investigation: knowing where to start, knowing who to talk to. So if you could please connect with my staff on that specific aspect of it.

1770 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 In terms of the larger question in term s of panelling, again, when the determination is made that a person needs a PCH placement, again, it's the health professionals that work with patients and their families to, you know, work–see that they get the best care that they can and their first choi ce of PCH placement as –if possible. We know that there are challenges, as you mentioned. We do have an aging population and that PCH residents do deserve to age with dignity, and that's why we are building more care–personal-care homes.

And it was, again , really wonderful to be out in Morden-Winkler and see the work that's going forward and the community involvement, for example, in Tabor Home, knowing that there's other ones under development in Lac du Bonnet and in Winnipeg. But, again, that doesn't mee t your needs right now in what you're talking about.

So in terms of accommodations sometimes it means that if someone needs a personal -care home right away, we try to make sure that they might end up having–well, it's about getting them into the care that they need, and while it might not be in the location they want, it's about getting them the care first. But, again, once that person is there it's a matter of then getting them to the place that they want to be. But knowing that if they can get into care first, that's the most important thing.

So, again, there is very much an effort on the part of the health professionals to balance the need of accommodating personal -care-home preferences while, again, ensuring that we do work to make sure that, you know, the person is getting the care that they need as soon as they need it or as soon as we can. And, again, it's part of the reason why we're investing in the construction there.

In terms of the questions regarding the nurse positions, I mean, there are more nurses practising in Manitoba now than ever before and there are more nurse-training seats, and I've been happy to run across, you know, some of my former students and seeing the work that they do including some who do work in PCHs, and one of my best friends who's a geriatric nurse, and I really appreciate the work that she does in one of our PCHs here in town. So I know the importance of the work that they do.

And, again, with the nearly 100 nursing positions that were added last year across the province, there's still much more that needs to be done in terms of recruitment and retaining nurses, especially in rural Manitoba, and that's why, for example, like I said, the training seats were expanded. One of the things that I'm happy to say is that we've been working with everything from internationally trained nurses, working with Red River and other educational institutions to ensure that we've got more nurses being trained.

And in–but like any other professional, there is the idea that they apply for jobs and they choose to apply for jobs. So it's about also creating an environment where, how is it that we can better recruit and retain nurses, and doing the different kinds of work, whether it's investments in, again, those seats, whether it's things like, again, being able to, you know, ensure that they have places to go, wanting to get them out there. And I know that a lot of communities have done a lot of work, and we continue to work with the RHAs in terms of trying to draw more nurses out into the rural areas.

And I know that there are many of our internationally -educated nurses that are actually looking forward to, once they get their criteria met in terms of their colleges, being able to go out and work in the rural environments. So again, if there's specific cases in terms of the PCH situation, again, I would ask that we work together and you contact my office and we'll move forward on that, but knowing that –the valuable role that nurses play in PCHs. Mr. Piwniuk: How many beds would there be empty in the personal -care home in Virden?

Or, I want to know that, but also I want to know how many beds in the personal -care homes in the Prairie Mountain Health, like, the RHA, and closed due to nursing shortages, and how many nurses would there be required to actually–to open those beds up for the panelled patients? Ms. Blady : I'd like to thank the member for the question. And because it's a very specific question regarding beds within Virden and within the Prairie Mountain in general, again, I would want to make sure that factual information is put on the record.

So the department is going to be following up with the RHA to get specific information, and I will get that information back to the member within the course of Committee of Supply. Mr. Pi wniuk: I want to thank the minister for looking into that for us. That's very important, because it is a crisis right now in the rural areas. We have a lot of postings for nurses. We've 'meeten' with the CEO of the RHA. The concern was that there's a

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1771 lot o f, you know, postings of required nurses, like, in–required, but there's no one applying for them. And the big thing was I noticed that all the ones that she read off for the Melita area was all 0.6 to 0.7. But I know a lot of people in the constituency; I know a lot of young nurses who have graduated who want full -time. There's a disconnect between what the RHA is looking for and what there's actually wanting to do.

And I actually had a good friend who's in a business who's going to lose an employee to Morden-Winkler, because his wife had approached the RHA, the Prairie Mountain Health region, and to say that she's a nurse practitioner –there's not very many of them in Manitoba –but she could not find a job in the Prairie Mountain. She had to go to Morden-Winkler. That's a very concern for us in the southwest, when there's such a big demand for these nurses and meanwhile they can't come up for employment in these RHAs. There's a really big disconnect –and a doctor shortage.

And now, I think, we're –the–one other factor that I think in Melita that the doctors have locating, is that they're not coming because they don't have the support. They don't have the nurses to support their practices. * (16:00) Ms. Blady: Again, I'd like to thank the member for the question. And in regards to the specific individual, again, there –that is not the kind of situation that I would want to see. And, so, again, if you've got specific information, or would like to put that individual in touch with my office so that we can endeavour to see what happens there.

Because, again, in terms of positions and postings, we're actively working to ensure that we are getting the kind of folks out there. And you're right: It is about team building, and nurse practitioners are a vital –they play a vital role, as do clinical assistants, physician's assistants, and it's really about building holistic teams.

And that's where, for example, you know, in looking at the contract that was just signed with the nurses, it was about, again, committing to addressing those kinds of concerns regarding what front -line nurses want –so, about, again, the reduced use of overtime and agency nurses, a better balance of full -time and part -time positions and a focus on workplace health and safety. And, so, we need to make sure that there is the right kind of connection, where what's being posted does, in fact, match the needs, and that it fits into, like I said, a larger aspect of team building.

I know, for example, that in terms of –I believe the member mentioned Melita, and I know that at the Melita medical centre that a new physician assistant is arriving there –Jacob John–and it was just–it was wonderful hearing that, sort of, made public and sharing that with folks through the Brandon Sun where he's going to be working under Dr. Doug Beauchamp and in the Deloraine medical clinic under Dr. Nolan Brackenreed.

And so the idea there's another internationally trained individual coming to Prairie Mountain and, again, seeing that this is a gentleman that's, you know, ha ving come from Bahrain and has then, you know, between training in the US, doing work there, achieving his master's degree, you know, choosing to come to Melita and then to take on work and in this –you know, in a specialty area, even after coming to Winnip eg– has chosen to move out to Melita, I think that's wonderful. And, you know, my understanding of the reports is that he's very much enjoying being out there. He's enjoying the community.

And I know that his role in primary care in both Melita and Delorai ne is really going to help in terms of assisting, providing service both in actually a personal-care home and in– and as well in the lodge in Deloraine. So it's about building a complement and a team; about having that kind of a connection.

So, again, in terms of this specific concern around the staffing, again, any connection you can make with my office to pursue that to ensure that we are ensuring that the RHAs are posting the kinds of jobs that are wanted and needed by folks that keep them in the commun ity but are also providing the care that we want and need for our loved ones in the community. Mr.

Piwniuk: Another question I have for the minister was: With the personal- care-home beds empty because of nurse shortages, I'd like to know how many –also the question I –another question I have is: How many of these patients are now in the actual hospital waiting to be transferred into the personal-care homes when there is actually room for them, and how much it's costing Manitoba throughout the whole provinc e–of how many people are in these hospitals, and especially in rural areas, who are waiting to go into the personal -care homes?

And just to have a ratio of how much we're spending in the actual hospitals versus how much we can be getting from themselves be ing in personal -care homes.

1772 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10, 2015 Ms. Blady: I just wanted to clarify so that, again, in terms of getting the information for the member that we're getting the actual information that he wants. When looking at the wait times –or folks waiting–in terms of waiting in hospital, folks that are awaiting a PCH placement, is he looking for wait times? Is he looking for the number of folks currently waiting in hospital for PCH, and is it just for his region and– or specific institutions, specific facilities? Mr. Piwniuk: It's actually for –let's say–let's use an example.

Let's just use Virden for instance. Let's say–how many beds are empty in the personal -care homes? How many patients are–could be in these personal-care-home beds but they're in the hospital, and how much cost is it to the Province compared to the personal-care homes when the individual family or the person actually pays for it themselves? How much are we as the–like, let's say the Province of Manitoba is actually funding those patients in these hospitals? And we'll use Virden for an example, make it easier. Ms.

Blady : I'd like to thank the member for the clarification, and the situation in Virden being his concern and so I will endeavour to get that infor - mation to him. I mean, that's part of the reason why we are building the number of personal -care homes that we are and why the investments are being made in rural Manitoba, as I mentioned with Tabor Home specifically in Lac du Bonnet.

Again, in having added over a 1,000 PCH and supportive housing beds and expanded home -care needs to meet the growing number of seniors, it's part of those investments that make sure that we have our seniors, those that we love, cared for at a time where, again, the support that they've provided us over the years we return in kind the support that they now need.

And with 125 licensed PCHs in Manitoba, I mean, that is six more than in 1999 and, again there are more to come so. * (16:10) When we look at the growth that's happened in there, you know, we've –again, even in terms of supportive housing units, it's been a tenfold increase in the past 16 years. So we're going to keep doing those things and, of course, we're going to keep building those things.

I mean, again, with the five that are currently under development, bringing over 300 new beds online I think will make a difference but, again, we always have situations where folks again–that's–I mean, that happens to so many different folks, where they maybe present at a hospital emergency room, they end up going into the hospital, and then, in leaving the hospital, their situation, their health situation has changed in such a way that they might require PCH panelling, and that's one of the things that, again, we're also working to ensure, that panelling can happen as soon as po ssible and that we're facilitating those moves, and I really appreciate the work that our –that is being done by front -line providers and in hospitals throughout the province to ensure that that kind of transition moves as quickly as possible and that folks are getting the care that they want and need as they transition into PCHs.

So, I thank the member, again, for the clari - fication and we’ll endeavour to get information to him. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): One of things that happened when RHAs were amalgamated was that you have two RHAs, for example, in the southern RHA, which were combined which had different IT information systems –computer systems that were being used, and so that these were not talking with one another. And I'm just wondering what the minister's plans are to have IT systems around the province, which, in fact, are going to be able to talk with one another. Ms.

Blady : I'd like to thank the member for the question. Technology is an interesting thing, isn't it, Mr. Chair, and to the member? And as you mentioned in your question, the –that with the amalgamation it meant that there were a variety of IT systems, and that is the amalgamation of IT systems is an interesting challenge, not just within our RHAs, but I think across the boa rd. I mean, if we even think of our own individual uses of technology and how we often find ourselves with one piece of technology that now supersedes another and needs to be upgraded.

So I can assure the member that, actually, in looking at the IT systems , whether it's the larger eHealth and the kind of planning that is being done in collaboration with the RHAs, the DSM, CancerCare, it is about taking a provincial focus and approach so that there can be consistency, so that there can be a universal system , that –but it's about how we manage with the systems that we have and how is it that we evolve those technologies. I know that things like the RIS/PACS system, for example, with the radiography –radiology–sorry,

June 10, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1773 having a moment here –information systems is part of that. And I know that we have other systems in place that, again, in terms of some recent upgrades, have done exactly that where they have replaced long-standing systems of multiple different layers and multiple different vintages and have been a ble to synthesize them into one. And I look forward to being able to do those things with the understanding, as I'm sure the member is aware, that these things don't come easy.

And I know one of the issues –that I actually had a conversation with someone about–had to do –the fact due–was due to the fact that we live in a day and age where we all like to walk around with our iPhones and our iPads and other pieces of technology, and we sort of take that for granted and think it can happen everywhere, and that knowing that when we go to upgrade technologies within our medical architecture, that especially where we have those locations that are of an older age –and frankly, after having been to some construction sites and renovation

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-4-45
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 4th hansardpdf 45.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c133926f414dac06ef58b7c073f8828cbfa64fc7

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