Manitoba Hansard — 24 May 2017 (Sitting 57, 41st Legislature, 2nd Session)

41-2-57

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXX No. 57 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 24, 2017 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St. Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew, Hon.

Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg St. Boniface NDP SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC Vacant Point Douglas

2379 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 24, 2017 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Eighth Report Mr. Dennis Smook (Chairperson): I wish to present the Eighth Report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Legislative– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS presents the following as its Eighth Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on the following occasions in the Legislative Building: • May 11, 2017 • May 23, 2017 Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 19) – The Efficiency Manitoba Act/Loi sur la Société pour l'efficacité énergétique au Manitoba • Bill (No. 20) – The Crown Corporations Governance and Accountability Act/Loi sur la gouvernance et l'obligation redditionnelle des corporations de la Couronne Committee Membership Committee membership for the May 11, 2017 meeting: • Mr. A LTEMEYER • Hon. Mrs. COX • Mrs. GUILLEMARD • Ms. KLASSEN • Mr. MARTIN • Hon. Mr. MICKLEFIELD • Mr. MARCELINO (Tyndall Park) • Mr.

NESBITT • Mr. REYES • Hon. Mr. SCHULER • Mr. SELINGER Your Committee elected Mrs. GUILLEMARD as the Chairperson at the May 11, 2017 meeting Your Committee elected Mr. MARTIN as the Vice-Chairperson at the May 11, 2017 meeting Committee membership for the May 23, 2017 meeting: • Mr. ALTEMEYER • Mr. BINDLE • Hon. Mr. EICHLER • Ms. KLASSEN • Mr. JOHNSTON • Hon. Mr. PEDERSEN • Mr. MARCELINO (Tyndall Park) • Hon. Mr. SCHULER • Mr. SELINGER • Mr. SMOOK • Mr. WOWCHUK Your Committee elected Mr. SMOOK as the Chairperson at the May 23, 2017 meeting Your Committee elected Mr.

BINDLE as the Vice-Chairperson at the May 23, 2017 meeting Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following six presentations on Bill (No. 19) – The Efficiency Manitoba Act/Loi sur la Société pour l'efficacité énergétique au Manitoba: Kevin Rebeck, Manitoba Federation of Labour Chris Mravinec, CUPE, Local 998

2380 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 Dan McInnis, Private Citizen Evan Thompson, Private Citizen Dr.

Garland Laliberte, Bipole III Coalition Dennis Woodford, Private Citizen Written Submissions Your Committee received the following two written submissions on Bill (No. 19) – The Efficiency Manitoba Act/Loi sur la Société pour l'efficacité énergétique au Manitoba: Joe Masi, Association of Manitoba Municipalities Tim Sale, Private Citizen Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 19) – The Efficiency Manitoba Act/Loi sur la Société pour l'efficacité énergétique au Manitoba Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 20) – The Crown Corporations Governance and Accountabilit y Act/Loi sur la gouvernance et l'obligation redditionnelle des corporations de la Couronne Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment.

Mr. Smook : I move, seconded by the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Bindle), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Seventh Report Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the Seventh Report of the Standing Committee of Social and Economic Development. Clerk: Your Standing Committee on Social– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on SOCIAL AN D ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT presents the following as its Seventh Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on May 23, 2017 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 254 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 33) – The Minimum Wage Indexation Act (Employment Standards Code Amended)/Loi sur l'indexation du salaire minimum (modification du Code des normes d'emploi) Committee Membership • Mr. A LLUM • Hon. Mr. CULLEN • Hon. Mr. FIELDING • Mr. HELWER • Ms. LAMOUREUX • Mr. LINDSEY • Ms. MARCELINO (Logan) • Ms. MORLEY-LECOMTE • Mr. NESBITT • Mr. PIWNIUK • Mr. YAKIMOSKI (Vice-Chairperson) Your Committee elected Mr. PIWNIUK as the Chairperson.

Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following seventeen presentations on Bill (No. 33) – The Minimum Wage Indexation Act (Employment Standards Code Amended)/Loi sur l'indexation du salaire minimum (modification du Code des normes d'emploi): James Rilett, Restaurants Canada Kevin Rebeck, Manitoba Federation of Labour Michelle Gawronsky, MGEU – Manitoba Government and General Employees Union Bob Moroz, Private Citizen Molly McCracken (by leave), Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives Josh Brandon, Make Poverty History Manitoba Jonathan Alward, Canadian Federation of Independent Business Darcy Penner, The Canadian Community Economic Development Network Lynne Fernandez, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives Loren Remillard, The Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce Cory Kolt, The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce Michael Chin, Private Citizen Scott Jocelyn, Manitoba Hotel Association Paul McKie, UNIFOR Nicole Dvorak, Private Citizen Matt McLean, Canadian Union of Public Employees Carlos Sosa, Private Citizen

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2381 Bill Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 33) – The Minimum Wage Indexation Act (Employment Standards Code Amended)/Loi sur l'indexation du salaire minimum (modification du Code des normes d'emploi) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment. Mr. Piwniuk: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Transcona (Mr. Yakimoski), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): I am pleased to table the Five Year Plan of the Workers Compensation Board of Manitoba for the period 2017-2021. Madam Speaker, I'm also pleased to table the annual report for the appeal panel and medical review panel of the Workers Compensation Board of Manitoba for the 12 -month period ending December 31st, 2016. Madam Speaker, I am al so pleased to table the Annual Report for the Workers Compensation Board of Manitoba for the 12- month period ending December 31st, 2016, I believe–2016.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Agriculture, and I would note that the required 90 minutes–[interjection]–I would indicate that the required 90- minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable Minister of Ag now please– 4-H's Annual Highway Cleanup Hon.

Ralph Eichler (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, on behalf of Manitoba Agriculture and Manitoba Infrastructure , it gives us great pleasure today to inform the House on the 31st annual Manitoba 4- H spring highway cleanup this coming weekend and urge motorists to be extra cautious when travelling Manitoba highways. Manitoba Agriculture and Manitoba Infrastructure are proud to partner with Manitoba 4-H clubs in this event. The province-wide campaign will take place on Saturday, May the 27th, weather permitting. In case of rain, the alternate date is June 3rd.

All work areas are supervised by adult volunteers and are marked with safety signs. All 4- H participants will be wearing safety vests and cleanup will take place between 9 a.m. and 3 p.m. to help ensure they are most easily visible by motorists. Last year 28 4 -H clubs cleaned 294 kilometres highway, picking up 1,015 bags of garbage , earning $7,003 for their efforts. We all benefit from the dedication of these young people as they raise funds for their programs by collecting unsightly trash along our highway.

We are pleased to applaud their resourcefulness while earning about civic pride , environmental responsibilities. Great things can happen when we work together as a team. This is just another example of Manitoba's great teamwork. We applaud the efforts of our Manitoba 4- H clubs and urge motorists to be extra cautious this coming weekend. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, this coming weekend, 4- H Manitoba will be holding its annual highway cleanup.

This initiative is among a number of great initiatives organized by 4-H, an organization that helps teach young people l eadership, communication skills and self-confidence. Our NDP team knows that Manitobans take pride in our beautiful landscape and value clean communities. Last year, just under 2,000 bags of trash were collected and 425 kilometres of roadside were cleaned through 4-H annual cleanup. All plastics, bottles and aluminum cans collected are taken to Manitoba Soft Drink Recycling pickup areas to be reused and recycled.

Madam Speaker, 4- H's annual highway cleanup is an important tradition that brings young–teaches young Manitobans the value of environmental consciousness and community service. These types of initiatives are an integral part of teaching important skills and values like civic engagement , leadership and they have inspired many of today's rural leaders. In light of 4-H annual weekend cleanup, I ask all Manitobans to drive with extra caution when they're

2382 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 on the highways this weekend and look out for volunteers wearing safety vests. On behalf of our NDP caucus , I would like to thank the 4- H volunteers who are taking time to make Manitoba a greener and cleaner place to live. We are prou d of these young Manitobans for demonstrating their commitment to their communities and good citizenship. Keep up the great work. Ms. Judy Klassen (Kewatinook): I ask for leave to respond to the ministerial statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] * (13:40) Ms.

Klassen: Madam Speaker, 4 -H clubs of Manitoba are comprised of thousands of 4- H members and motivated volunteers. It is an international youth and volunteer orga nization, and it's a program that provides members with the resources and activities to build self -confidence, communication and leadership skills while learning about a topic of their choice. This will be 4 -H's 31st annual highway cleanup fundraising campaign and it has been a key strategy in keeping our ditches clean in rural Manitoba. All work areas are supervised by adult volunteers and clearly marked with safety signs.

The Liberal caucus would also like to caution drivers traveling through these are as to be keenly aware of the volunteers that are on the sides of the highways, picking up garbage. Many hundreds of kilometres are cleaned every year. Recyclable bottles and cans are also delivered to appropriate pickup locations. It is an important lesson learned from our future Manitoba leaders about community pride and responsibility This endeavor teaches 4-H members the value of environmental consciousness and recycling.

The Liberal caucus would like to thank all the volunteers that participate in th e annual cleanup and hope to see more initiatives like this in the future. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS La Société historique de Saint-Boniface Mr. Greg Selinger (St. Boniface): Merci Madame la Présidente. L' histoire de Saint- Boniface et du Manitoba français est longue et riche. Au moment où le Canada fête son 150 e anniversaire, la Société historique de Saint -Boniface joue un rôle essentiel dans la préservation de l'histoire de notre province et notre pays.

Aujourd'hui, je prends la parole pour reconnaître leur contribution exceptionnelle à l 'éducation publique en matière de patrimoine franco-manitobain et métis. Fondée en 1902, la Société a été établie pour démontrer la contribution et la longue histoire de la présence française de l'Ouest canadien. De nos jours, la Société continue sa mission, avec un mandat d 'acquérir, promouvoir et préserver le patrimoine des Francophones et m étis du Manitoba et dans l'Ouest du Canada. De bien des façons, cet organisme préserve non seulement les documen ts et les artefacts, mais la mémoire collective de nos communautés.

Aujourd'hui, la Société possède une des plus riches collections archivistiques francophones et métisses dans le pays, y compris plusieurs écrits importants de Louis Riel, le père du Manitoba. La Société est toujours une riche ressource pour les historiens, mais également pour les Manitobains et Manitobaines qui désirent tracer leurs racines et se renseigner sur leurs ancêtres. Madame la Présidente, permettez -moi de remercier tout le p ersonnel de la Société historique de Saint -Boniface, qui sont présents parmi nous cet après-midi.

Ce n 'est pas tous les jours qu 'on considère les contributions des historiens, des archivistes et des bibliothécaires. Par contre, votre travail est indispe nsable. Bien que la Francophonie manitobaine a beaucoup évolué au cours des années, les gens comme vous nous apprennent qui nous sommes et d'où nous venons. Merci beaucoup, Madame. Translation Thank you, Madame Speaker. The history of St. Boniface and of French Manitoba is rich and long. As Canada celebrates its 150th anniversary, the Société historique de Saint-Boniface plays a vital role in preserving the history of our province and our country.

Today, I rise to recognize the Société's exceptional contribution to public education on Franco-Manitoban and Metis heritage.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2383 Founded in 1902, the Société was established to document the contribution and long history of the French presence in Western Canada. Nowadays, the Société continues its mission, with the mandate to acquire, promote and preserve the heritage of Francophone and Metis populations in Manitoba and Western Canada. In many ways, this organiz ation preserves not only documents and art ifacts, but also the collective memory of our communities.

Today, the Société has one of the richest Francophone and Metis archival collections in the country, including several important writings by Louis Riel, the Father of Manitoba. The Société is always a rich resource for historians, but also for Manitobans who wish to trace their roots and obtain information about their ancestors. Madame Speaker, please allow me to thank the entire staff of the Société historique de Saint-Boniface, who are all with us this afternoon. It is not every day t hat we acknowledge the contributions of historians, archivists and librarians. However, your work is indispensable.

While the Francophone community of Manitoba has evolved significantly over the years, it is people like you who teach us who we are and where we come from. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Pick Up and Walk Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Good Afternoon, Madam Speaker. It's my pleasure to speak in the Legislature today about the 12th annual Steinbach Pick Up and Walk which occurred on May 6th. The Pick Up and Walk is a collaborative effort of 21 churches in the Steinbach area. The contribution of our churches to our province is enormous.

They provide social, economic and personal support that cannot be fully measured and they help to relieve many of those that would otherwise turn to government. However, at the Pick Up and Walk, the contribution of the community churches and their members was easy to quantify. One thousand six hundred and fourteen volunteers met at the T.G. Smith arena in Steinbach and within hours, they removed 9.49 tons of garbage from streets, ditches, parks in our province's third largest city.

My wife Kim and son Malachi were honoured to join those volunteers who, wea ring their yellow shirts and rubber boots, fanned out across the city. While the churches are the driving force behind the annual event, there are many sponsors and supporters who help in providing the lunch that is served after the walk and who help to co-ordinate the pickup of the garbage bags that have been filled. In addition, the City of Steinbach helps to provide facilities and equipment to support the walk. Each of these deserve our thanks.

In particular however, I'd like to recognize Grace Hiebert, the Pick Up and Walk founder and organizer from Southland Church in Steinbach. Grace's initiative has not only helped clean up our city for many years, but it has provided an example to the thousands who have participated or have seen the efforts of co mmunity spirit, co-operation and the impact our churches have in the province . Thank you, Grace, for all that you do, and may God continue to bless you in your service.

The Pick Up and Walk is a remarkable community event that allows us to take pride in our city, be good stewards of our environment and come together in fellowship. Colleagues, please join me in recognizing Pick Up and Walk leader, Grace Hiebert, and her team, Laverne Pappel, Art Dueck, Helen Funk, Ernie Hiebert, Joyce Purchase, Russ Dyck, Eldon Wallman, Edwin Adrian, Sheri Grenier -Rooke, who join us here in the gallery this afternoon. Frank Watt Mr. Len Isleifson (Brandon East): Good afternoon, Madam Speaker.

I continue to be honoured to meet constituents who dedicate their time to enhancing the lives of those that they come in contact with. I am pleased to take this opportunity to rise in the House today and recognize the 52-year health-care career of Mr. Frank Watt. Accompanying a neighbour to visit a pat ient at the Assiniboine C entre in 1965 created a desire in Frank to help those in need, and he has not turned back since. Due to that first visit, Frank has had a distinguished career in health care, where he started as an orderly. Frank spent his first 14 years providing care to those in need.

He contributed significantly to the health-care industry even though the care he provided was not medical. He spent each shift providing care to his patients in such areas as eating,

2384 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 dressing and bathing, in both t he hospital and other in-patient-care settings. His years of service, reassurance and companionship made a significant difference in the patient experience. Madam Speaker, when the Assiniboine Centre relocated to its current location, Frank's passion to serve in the health-care sector flourished and grew. His desire and his ability to influence and care for his patients also increased, and he changed his career by becoming an LPN.

I asked Frank the other day what keeps him going for all these years , and he said that he simply puts the needs of the patient first. I 've heard many comments about Frank and the way he performs his duties, and I am told that his demeanour and positive attitude, along with his desire to make a difference during a patient's care, makes him a hero to many. Madam Speaker, Frank is here with us today, along with his family. And I might add that his daughter is–he is a role model, because his daughter is also working in the health- care sector as a nurse practitioner.

Frank's 52 years of commitment to his patients is truly remarkable, and I'm honoured to publicly thank him for his service and recognize his contribution to our province . A nd I'd ask all of my colleagues to please join me in congratulating Frank on a job well done. Congratulations. Ramadan Mrs. Colleen Mayer (St. Vital): Manitoba is blessed to be a diverse province , not only in culture , but in the multitude of religions practi sed and celebrated. This Saturday begins Ramadan, one of the holiest months in the Muslim religion.

During this time, 1.6 billion people across the world and nearly 15,000 people in Manitoba will be fasting from sunrise to sunset every day. According to Muslim belief, Ramadan is a time for a spiritual det ox, a time to purify the soul, refoc us attention on God and practise self -discipline. It's also believed that Ramadan was the time when the first revelation of the Islamic holy book, the Quran, occurred to the founder of their faith.

The physical effect s of the fast are also a reminder of those who cannot meet their basic needs and encourages those fasting to remember not to be wasteful and feel empathy for others. This is why many Muslims in Manitoba and across the world donate the money that would have normally be– normally have been spent on food to charity. Another beautiful tradition of Ramada n is the iftar meal. The iftar is the meal served at the end of the day during Ramadan to break the day's fast. Other families –or, often families and communitie s gather to partake in the i ftar meal together.

Here in Manitoba, there are many interfaith iftar meals where people of different faiths experience the breaking of fast together. * (13:50) The final day of Ra madan is known as Eid al-Fitr, and it is celebrated with prayers and feasts. Madam Speaker, I would like to wish all Muslims across Manitoba a blessed month of Ramadan. Ramadan Mubarak. Shoal Lake Airport Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): It was the summer of 1992 and Gary Filmon was the premier of Manitoba when t he Shoal Lake regional airport officially opened.

However, it was 1988 when a committee of municipal officials and aviation enthusiasts began their efforts to secure a federal grant of nearly $800,000 to construct a 1,000- metre paved runway, taxiway and terminal building to serve the region. To mark the opening of the airport in 1992, 431 Air Demonstration Squadron, or as they are more commonly known, the Snowbirds , officially opened the show to thousands of thrilled spectators. As a newspaper owner I was lucky enough to hitch a ride with Sno wbird 5, Captain Nick Cassidy, on a media flight from CFB Moose Jaw.

Over the past 25 years I believe Shoal Lake has been one of the busiest rural airports in Manitoba with movements from flight training, agricultural spraying, air ambulance and recreational flying. Several pilots who earned their wings in Shoal Lake have gone on to careers with Air Canada, WestJet and the Royal Canadian Air Force. The Shoal Lake Flying Club is very active with membership from throughout the region. Approximately a dozen private aircraft are based at the airport located northwest of the town, along with a flight training centre and spray plane operation.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2385 Fast forward to 2017 and Brian Pallister is the Premier of Manitoba. [interjection] The flying club– Madam Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Nesbitt: –will mark the 25th anniversary of the Shoal– Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would ask the –or remind the member that member's names are not to be used, but their positions. Thank you. Mr. Nesbitt: The flying club will mark the 25th anniversary of the Shoal Lake Airport with an air show featuring the Snowbirds as the main act on Wednesday, July 12th .

This will be the Snowbirds only Manitoba performance in Canada's 150th year. Joining the Snowbirds are Bill Ca rter in his Pitts Special S2S, who also performed in Shoal Lake in 1992, and Pete McLeod of Red Lake, O ntario, who performs on the Red Bull Air Race circuit. Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate all those citizens who have been involved in the operation of the Shoal Lake regional airport over the past 25 years and extend an invitation to all Manitobans to attend the air show in my community on July 12th. Thank you.

Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery. First of all, I'll start with the family of the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Isleifson). We have here his wife, Elaine Watt; Shaunna Watt -Dorscheid, his daughter; Peter Dorscheid, son- in-law; Amanda Dorscheid, granddaughter; Brett Dorscheid, grandson; and Jean Hayward, granddaughter-in-law. Also in the public gallery, from Rosenort School we have 19 Grade 11 and 12 students under the direction of Arlin Scharfenberg and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Morris (Mr.

Martin). And we have seated in the public gallery, from Transcona Collegiate, four student s under the direction of Daniel Steinhilber and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Transcona (Mr. Yakimoski). And seated in the public gallery, from St. John's-Ravenscourt, 40 Grade 9 students under the direction of Jock Martin and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Fort-Garry Riverview (Mr. Allum). On behalf of all honourable members here, we welcome all of you to the Manitoba Legislature.

ORAL QUESTIONS Advertising During By-Election Winnipeg Health Authority Campaign Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the Official Opposition): We've heard from thousands of Manitobans that disagree with the government's pending closure of ACCESS centres, emergency rooms and urgent -care centre. The government knows this; that's why, on the verge of the election, they put out ads trying to convince the public. The Premier and his Cabinet got caught in violation of election rules, yet took days to address this and the publication is still on the website. Why is the Premier playing fast and loose with our election laws?

Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Each of us is entitled to our own opinion, as is the member, but she is not entitled to her own facts, Madam Speaker, and the facts are these: we've go t a health -care system that was increasingly posing challenges for Manitobans in terms of their ability to get emergency care, in terms of their ability to receive diagnostic tests, in terms of their ability to get procedures done that needed to be done, and so the system was broken, Madam Speaker. It was not functioning well. It was functioning, in many categories, 10th of 10 provinces, and that is not acceptable.

So, Madam Speaker, the previous government knew this. They had the information upon whic h to act. They chose not to. We choose to act. Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Ms. Marcelino: The by -election was called on May 12th. We raised this as an issue on May 17th. It was not until after this that the WRHA reminded its staff about the election rules. The publication's still up on the website, and now we have learned that the TV ad still played over this long weekend. Why do they continue to violate the election rules?

2386 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 Mr. Pallister: Having seen the previous administration flaunt the election rules on numerous occasions, Madam Speaker, having seen Cabinet ministers parading around and peacocking, doing announcements, not only prior to the writs but during the writ periods, we understood, going into the new challenges we face and we face together, that there would be a need to demonstrate a new way of doing things and a better way of doing things. We also understand the challenges, and we will address those challenges.

Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Leader of the Opposition, on a final supplementary. Ms. Marcelino: Election rules are rules, and they have to be followed. Madam Speaker, the Premier promoted his hea d political– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Marcelino: Madam Speaker, the Premier promoted his head political communicator to focus on selling the public on closing emergency rooms. The Premier would have us believe that this is all just a mix-up, but he knew the timing of the election. He has an obligation to ensure the government is following the election rules.

As the Premier has said previously, it would be in the government's best interest to make sure they're not abusi ng the election rules before, rather than find out they did after. Why is it always one set of rules for the Premier and another one for everyone else? Mr. Pallister: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the member's concerns very much, and we are addressing those.

But I do remind members opposite they had rules within their own party which they chose to violate to try to get rid of the previous premier from their own caucus, and this hardly demonstrates an adherence to the rules, Madam Speaker, nor does parading around a birthing centre, as the previous Health minister with the NDP did during an election period, nor does the sad fact that the previous administration has been and is continuing to be under investigation by the Ombudsman of the Province, the Auditor General of the Province.

And so the fact of the matter is, Madam Speaker, that the member does ask a question about which she and her colleagues are very familiar, and that is breaking the rules. We will continue to do our utmost to make sure those rules, which they were –which were ignored by the previous administration, are honoured and respected by all, going forward. Minimum Wage Legislation Poverty Reduction Inquiry Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns): Last night, we heard from a packed committee room with labour and poverty advocates advising what a 15 -cent minimum wage increase will do for working families: very, very little, Madam Speaker. Presenters confirm minimum wage earners aren't just students living with their parents.

They're seniors, single mothers, full -time workers, and, according to the MGEU 535, many minimum worker–wage earners work for large corporations. * (14:00) The Premier has no problem giving tax breaks for wealthy owners of these corporations, but freezes wages for the minimum wage earners who work there and then increases it by a measly three nickels. The question is, Madam Speaker, why? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, the member just makes it up as she goes along. Those are false allegations and she makes these repeatedly.

The previous administration did give some tax breaks, certainly, not to Manitobans but to corporations. We have chosen to take another route. We have chosen to consciously make sure that we give the opportunity for lower income Manitobans to keep more of their hard-earned money. The previous administration took more of that money away from them by raising the PST, for example, which disproportionately hurt low -income families, which disproportionately placed greater burdens on single parents, on the working poor in our society. They knew they were doing that when they did it, Madam Speaker.

They can't–I mean, they can run for office, but they can't run away from the record. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: The Premier said he doesn't think raising the minimum wage will actually reduce poverty. Michelle Gawronsky from the MGEU actually says, and I quote, employment should be a ticket out of poverty, nothing less.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2387 Last night we heard from Molly McCracken from the CCPA th at the Premier's tax 'crut' – cuts, that he just noted, for the wealthy will hardly give working Manitobans the break that they need. She stated that low -income earners received only $16 through Pallister's tax change – the Pallister government's tax changes, but lost $400 when he froze the minimum wage. The Premier gave himself a 20 per cent raise and tossed three nickels at low come– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr.

Pallister: The member is hardly a Fontaine –or fountain of information, Madam Speaker, when she falsely claims that –she makes claims about salary increases that were not given by this government to its members, but were given by the previous government to theirs. And so, Madam Speaker, again, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but the member from St. Johns not entitled to make up her own facts. Now, we have raised the basic personal exemption and this has assisted in taking many, many–thousands, in fact, of Manitobans right off the tax rolls, Madam Speaker.

This, the member falsely categorizes as an aid to the wealthy; it is not, quite the opposite. You know, in Saskatchewan, for example, the previous government failed to address this. People aren't taxed on their earnings until they're thousands of dollars better off than they are in Manitoba. We're trying to catch up to other provinces. The previous administration caused us to lose ground and, most importantly, they caused us to loon–lose ground among working poor families. That's the families first and foremost we're concerned with helping, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St.

Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: These aren't my facts; they're actually the facts of experts, and so let's hear from Make Poverty History's Jo sh Brandon, who told the committee last night workers will see their purchasing power decline and will be entrenched in poverty rather than steadily coming out of it. He also affirmed that if Bill 33 had been in place since 1998, minimum wage would be $7.40. He rightly noted that the Premier's increase to the basic personal exemption only benefits minimum wage workers $17 per every $1,000 increase,

whereas if the Premier had agreed to raise the minimum wage by just $1, it would have earned an extra $2,00 0 in Manitobans' pockets. Can the Premier justify throwing a measly 15 cents at Manitobans? Mr. Pallister: Well, Madam Speaker, it wasn't that long ago that that small amount of money to the member was a large amount of money to me and my family, and rai sing the basic personal exemption, which now the members opposite come out in– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –opposition to, is not a small thing.

And several thousand dollars of tax- free money in the hands of someone who lives in Yorkton is not in the hands of someone who lives in Swan River or Dauphin. And, Madam Speaker, these are not small things to me and they are not small things to this government.

Now, while the members opposite had the opportunity to stand up and support us when we stood up for seniors and fought for a better Canada Pension Plan, they chose to sit on their hands; and when they had the opportunity to stand up and support us in a –in the struggle for more sustainable health-care support, they stayed quiet and sat on their hands and did nothing. Now, these are relevant struggles that we need to work together on to improve the lives of Manitobans. I invite the members to get on the right side of helping the downtrodden in our society, because that is our focus on this side of the House.

Efficiency Manitoba Act Request to Withdraw Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): I'm still struggling with the events from last night, when it–so many people opposed the government's efforts to rip up Hydro. The member for Assiniboia (Mr. Fletcher) was in fine form, fighting against his own government. Has the Minister for Crown Services had time to reflect on what his own member is saying? Will he withdraw Bill 19? Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, the previous administration dug a giant hole for Manitobans, Madam Speaker.

They dug and they kept on digging, and then they asked for permission in the last

2388 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 election to add to the shovel work and dig even deeper. They dug our provincial government into a greater debt, a doubled debt from what it had been just eight years before, did the like for Manitoba Hydro and now they blame us for t he problem they created. But, Madam Speaker, our concern is not with us; it's with Manitobans, the real owners of Manitoba Hydro. And the difference that we'll take in our approach with respect to our public utilities is to make sure that they're run in t he best interests of all Manitobans, not politically.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. Mr. Marcelino : The minister has decided he does not want to hear anyone else's voice except his own. More presenters arrived at committee yesterday, yet the lone voice against allowing them to present was the minister. Many people are concerned about this bill, including the member from Assiniboia. Why is the minister not using his hearing aid? Mr.

Pallister: I'm as b emused as the members opposite concerning the question, Madam Speaker, but not as bemused as Manitobans were as they watched the previous administration proceed, against all advice from within Manitoba Hydro, from former Manitoba Hydro senior managers, from scientists and experts who said, don't build a bipole line halfway around the province at billions of dollars of extra expense; it will push hydro rates up. They proceeded to do so anyway. They then circumvented the Public Utilities Board process which is designed to protect Manitobans, Madam Speaker. They disrespected the process.

We respect the process. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary. Mr. Marcelino : Participants at yesterday's proceedings in committee enjoyed a bizarre spectacle of a government minister filibustering his own legislation. This is the same minister who called Hydro bankrupt and won't withdraw the term even though its financial position is improving. It seems clear– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Mr. Marcelino: It seems clear the minister does not know what he is talking about.

Will he just withdraw Bill 19 and listen to a member of his caucus? Mr. Pallister: As to the specific issue, Madam Speaker, the member raised in his first

preamble, the issue of an arm's -length agency to protect Manitoba consumers from higher hydro bills, that was the No. 1 point of the previous administration, as I recall, an NDP administration, in their green plan. They promised that they would enact that which we are enacting. They had all the information and recommendations from experts who told them it was the right thing to do and a good idea. They said it was the right thing to do and a good idea; now they've changed their minds. * (14:10) Madam Speaker, one thing is clear when it comes to the NDP running Hydro or anything else.

People like Ed Schreyer know they shouldn't be in charge and have said so. That's a former NDP premier of our province. A former minister in charge of Hydro, Tim Sale, says they can't be trusted with Hydro management; he is quite right, as well. Former member, rest his soul, Len Evans said the same thing. Madam Speaker, the NDP is hardly unified when it comes to their positions around Hydro but, more importantly, they are also hardly consistent in their positions. Government Air Services Privatization Inquiry Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I'd like to direct a question to the Premier (Mr. Pallister).

For reasons this government refuses to share with Manitobans, it's trying to privatize government air services, including Lifeflight and our water bomber fleet. Lifeflight provides life -saving services for Manitobans who are sick and in distress across our province. Water bombers protect our communities against the real and dangerous threat of fires. Why is this government committed to privatizing a core public service which protects the health and safety of Manitobans? Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Infrastructure): The department has put out an expression of interest to see whether there is interest

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2389 to–we can save Manitoba taxpayers' money while keeping Manitobans safe. I don't know why the member would be opposed to saving Manitoba taxpayers money, but, apparently, that's his position. Our position is to be prudent with taxpayers' dollars in all cases. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Elmwood, on a supplementary question. Mr. Maloway: Well, Madam Speaker, the government's expression of interest to privati ze this service already closed on May 18th. The Premier (Mr. Pallister) said in the last election we'll keep the public services public.

So they've broken their word to Manitobans by their shameless attempt to privatize government air services. I'd like to ask the Premier: How many responses to his expression of interest did he get? Mr. Pedersen : Well, I'm glad to see the member actually realizes the process. The process on the expressions of interest have closed. They are about to be reviewed by the dep artment. They have not been reviewed yet, and we will make our decision based on what those expressions of interest show us. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Elmwood, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Maloway : The minister didn't answer the question. I asked him how many –how many – expressions of interest there were, and he didn't answer that. The Lifeflight Air Ambulance saves lives. Over 500 Manitobans have been transported on Lifeflight Air Ambulance since last May when this government came to power. That's 500 trips that saved lives, 500 patients who didn't have to worry if a private owner would charge fees or be available off-hours. Lifeflight Air Ambulance is a core government service and this government has no right to privatize it.

Will this Premier stop selling off our front -line services to the highest bidder? Mr. Pedersen: I notice that the member did not want to talk about the untendered STARS contract that the previous government put out just before the last election. I repeat: it was not tendered. There was no expression of interest; they just awarded a contract. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pedersen : This is about getting value for Manitoba taxpayers, and I would remind the member that–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Pedersen: –while they were in government they also ignored the FleetNet emergency response system to the tune where it's going to cost this government upwards of four to five hundred million dollars, that they ignored for years and years, and they should have looked at that back when they were in government. Concordia Hospital ER Services Request to Reconsider Closure Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Since this government announced the closure of both the ER and an urgent -care centre at Concordia Hospital, the community has jumped into action. Families across northeast Winnipeg have signed petitions.

They've held rallies. They've put signs in their law ns and they've joined with health -care workers to protest this government's cuts to emergency care. I have thousands of petitions signed in my office, flooding in every single day, and I know that I'm not alone. They come from community members who care so passionately about this they're going out on their own, knocking on doors and collecting signatures on foot. Will the Minister of Health tell the people of northeast Winnipeg that he's listening to them and that he's willing to reconsider his cuts to the Concordia emergency room? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living): Well, Madam Speaker, we have listened to Manitobans, of course, during the election campaign and since then about the fact that they wait for hours, hundreds of thousands of hours collectively, in emergency rooms and can't get care. That is not service. People who go to an emergency room deserve to have–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –service. The Peachey report which was commissioned by the NDP –the hand- picked consultant picked by the NDP –was about providing better care.

Better care in the right place at the right time, that's what we'll deliver, Madam Speaker.

2390 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: Madam Speaker, the phone in my constituency office is ringing off the hook every single nay–day, and I know I'm not alone in that. I've spoken with outraged families. I've spoken to seniors in all constituencies all over Winnipeg, and t hey're calling their own MLAs as well: in Radisson, in Rossmere, in Transcona, in River East. I'm sure these members have communicated that to the minister as well.

Will this minister listen not just to me, but–and not just to the residents, but listen to members of his own Cabinet and his own caucus who must be pleading with the minister to simply keep the hospital open and accessible to the public? Mr. Goertzen : Well, Madam Speaker, for many years, Manitobans called NDP MLAs and said, fix those wait tim es in emergency rooms. They called over and over, year after year, and the NDP did nothing. They did nothing to fix the problems in the emergency rooms.

They waited for two hours, five hours, eight hours, 10 hours –no change –and the NDP, those members, never answered the call. Now, I would ask those members why they didn't answer the call, but most of them were rightfully defeated in the last election, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: Well, Madam Speaker, despite the bluster, I haven't heard the minister say no to reconsidering the cuts at Concordia. So I hope that means that there is, in fact, a chance that he'll reverse these cuts or he'll scale them back at Concordia.

The community has worked so very hard to make their opinions known to the minister and stand up against these cuts. I know they're not ready to give up on this fight, and I'm certainly not either. This is not a left issue or a right issue; it's a community issue, and his own constituents and his own party members are telling him to reconsider. The community is trying to stay hopeful and that it's not too late for the minister to change his mind to save our ER. Will the minister give some hope to the community and tell them there's still a chance to save the Concordia emergency room? Mr.

Goertzen: Madam Speaker, the member is right about one thing. It's not a left or a right issue. It is a patient-care issue. It is about ensuring– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Goertzen: It is about ensuring that when somebody goes to an emergency room they get the right care, they get it at the right place and they get it at the right time. That is not happening in the system now. It hasn't happened for the last 17 years under the previous NDP government. The member asked whether or not there is hope. There is hope on the way.

There is hope for a better ER system, a better urgent -care system, a better health-care system and real care when people need it. That is the definition of hope, Madam Speaker. Poverty Reduction Plan Government Intention Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Last night we heard from Manitobans at committee on Bill 33 regarding minimum wage. I want to thank the presenters for coming out and educating us. * (14:20) We heard from both sides, some in favour and some adamantly against the bill. But everyone agreed that the issue of poverty in Manitoba desperately needs to be addressed.

So, Madam Speaker, if this government isn't significantly raising minimum wage, what are they doing to help end poverty in our province? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade ): I do appreciate the question from the member opposite. Clearly, in our consultations with Manitobans, they asked for a balanced approach. We think this particular bill does bring balance to this minimum wage discussion and debate. It certainly provides the predictability, both to the business community and to employees.

This, clearly, with the indexing model, it certainly protects purchasing power for employees, and I think it really does bring balance to the minimum wage discussion. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, this government needs to have more confidence in Manitobans and how they spend their money.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2391 Last night we asked two presenters, both private citizens who were making minimum wage, what they would do if, hypothetically, minimum wage went up significantly. One said the money would go towards her education, and another said he would use the money towards groceries. Madam Speaker, if this government is not going to raise minimum wage by more than 15 cents, are they still planning to remove the 1 per cent PST that they committed to? Mr. Cullen: I do appreciate the question relative to poverty.

Certainly, we're taking steps on this side of the House to increase the basic personal exemption. Now, we recognize from discussions last night, we're $7,000 difference between Manitoba and Saskatchewan in terms of where people start paying tax. We've increased the basic personal exemption. We've taken over 2,000 Manitobans off the tax roll already, and we plan to continue to increase the basic personal exemption, which allows Manitobans to keep more of their hard- earned money in their pockets. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a final supplementary. Ms.

Lamoureux: Last night there was a young woman who really impressed the committee. She's a grade 12 student working part -time at minimum wage. She shared with us that if it wasn't for the financial support of her parents, she would not be able to attend university next year. This is a huge red flag, Madam Speaker. A young, bright, impressive student who works as she studies could have been prevented from attending university due to the mismanagement of money from this government. Madam Speaker, during the election, the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) said poverty woul d be his No. 1 priority, so where's his so- called poverty reduction plan? Mr. Cullen: And we–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Cullen : –we clearly recognize poverty is an issue, and it's certainly an issue that we inherited from the previous gove rnment. Certainly, we know that minimum wage is a step in the direction –the right direction, and one letter said it will make a difference to the large number of working women and men in my community and you can keep surprising me like this. Of course, I'd like a bigger increase, but it's not an ideological issue.

Sel Burrows, former NDP supporter. Madam Speaker, there's a lot of work to do. We recognize when the NDP brought in the increase in the provincial sales tax, there was an increase of 2.4 per cent use in food banks in Manitoba. This government will reduce the PST. MMIWG Inquiry Preparation for Inquiry Ms. Janice Morley-Lecomte (Seine River): Our government has been working to ensure that Manitoba is supporting the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls.

This means that we have taken real action to mobilize our resources and to engage with the national inquiry to ensure that the Manitoba perspective is heard and included. Can the minister of Indigenous Relations update this House on how Manitoba continues working to support the national inquiry? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations ): And I'd like to thank my colleague for that very important and timely question. As she knows, our government has been hard at work on this file, and it's a priority within my department.

We passed an order -in-council immediately, and we advocated to have past Manitoba evidence included and we also provided key documents to ensure that Manitoba perspective was heard. We're listening to the concerns about the inquiry from victim family members and that's why the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Stefanson) and myself, along with our staff, have advocated to the commissioners to ensure that their concerns are acted on. Our government will continue working to ensure that the inquiry and its outcomes are representative of and meaningful to– of survivors, family members and the larger indigenous community.

Age and Opportunity Funding Cuts to Program Mr. And rew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, yesterday, in question period the Minister of Justice had no answer why she cancelled all of her department's support for the SafetyAid program

2392 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 delivered by Age and Opportunity, which gives seniors safety and security in their homes. Without any consultation at all, the Department of Justice wrote to Age and Opportunity earlier this month to advise that the funding for the program, for the crime-prevention program, will end in July. Will the Minister of Justice agree to s it down with Age and Opportunity to explain her decision and to listen to their reasons why this program must be continued? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): We want to ensure the safety of seniors inside their homes. We want to ensure the safety of seniors outside of their homes and in their communities, and that's why we're –we've been working with law enforcement. That's why we've been working with organizations like Block by Block to ensure that our communities are safer. So we will take a collaborative approach with respect to this. I am open to having discussions with anyone who wants to further the safety of all Manitobans, including our seniors.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: Cutting the SafetyAid program is exact opposite of making things safer for seniors. The CEO of Age and Opportunity, Amanda Macrae, told the media yesterday her organization was entirely taken by surprise by the cut, and she says she ho pes there's a chance to speak to the Minister of Justice about the way the program benefits Manitoba seniors. She said, and I quote: We would like the opportunity to understand maybe why the cut has been made and work with government to look at some solutions.

Will this minister actually sit down with Age and Opportunity, learn about the program and see how it can continue for the benefit and the safety of Manitoba seniors? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, I want to thank the member for the question. And certainly, as I mentioned in my last answer to this question, that we're willing to sit down with any–with all Manitobans who are willing to work with us to ensure the safety of all Manitobans within our communities. That includes seniors. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Swan: Age and Opportunity has also been trying to get an answer from the Department of Health for funding about the falls assessment and falls prevention, which has been part of the SafetyAid program . While it's unclear how the SafetyAid program can continue without support from Justice, I understand they've not been given any word on the continuation of support from Health. Can the Minister of Health and Seniors give Age and Opportunity and Manitoba seniors some comfort today and confirm that at the very least his department will continue to fund the SafetyAid program as in recent years? Mrs.

Stefanson : Well, again, Madam Speaker, our government is focused on yielding results for Manitobans, especi ally when it becomes –when it comes to health and safety of Manitobans. And that's why we've taken many initiatives by working with various stakeholders in the community, including law enforcement, including members of organizations within the health -care field. And we will continue to do so to ensure the safety of all Manitobans, including seniors. Split Lake and Gillam Highway 280 Closure Ms.

Amanda Lathlin (The Pas): Since Friday, Highway 280, the only road connecting Gillam and Split Lake to Thompson, has been closed. While other people were enjoying their long weekend, people in Gillam and Split Lake faced interrupted deliveries for groceries and medication. Can the Minister for Infrastructure tell the House what he's done to restore access to necessities for people in these northern communities? * (14:30) Hon.

Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Infrastructure): I thank the member for that question because it gives me the opportunity to thank the staff at Manitoba Infrastructure who spent their long weekend repairing various washouts and culverts that were taken out by flood waters over the holiday weekend. While many of us were enjoying the weather here, our staff was hard at work. I can tell the member that Highway 280 has been reopened as of this morning.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2393 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lathlin: Writing about this situation, the CBC quotes a Gillam local who says t hat no maintenance repair was done on the road this spring. Normally, by May a fresh layer of gravel is applied to the surface of the road, but that apparently didn't happen this year. Can the Minister for Infrastructure explain to the House why that didn't happen? Mr. Pedersen: Perhaps it's a factor of weather. The spring break has just begun in northern Manitoba.

As our member from Thompson can well relate to everyone, it's been a late spring thaw there. They had a record amount of snow and the water ha s just begun–or, the snow has just begun to melt and the water's just begun to run. It's pretty hard to do maintenance until the spring breakup actually happens. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas, on a final supplementary. Ms. Lathlin: People in Split Lake say that Highway 280, a gravel highway, is in such rough shape that people are often stranded and vehicles are damaged.

Ultimately, people in Split Lake and Gillam would like a paved road connecting the community to Thompson. It's a much needed investment that I'm sure the member for Thompson (Mr. Bindle) can get behind. Will the Minister for Infrastructure commit to providing northern people with this much needed investment? Mr. Pedersen : Madam Speaker, after a decade or more of ignoring our roads across Manitoba, in fact, the previous member for Thompson went to Split Lake and promised that they would pave the road, when he had no intention of ever doing that.

Instead of putting up stead y growth signs all over the place, perhaps the previous government should have actually maintained roads instead of cutting back the maintenance budget year after year after year. Waste Water Infrastructure New Capital Projects Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye): I was pleased to see the Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations announce the funding of several water and waste water infrastructure projects, particularly the lagoon upgrade planning and design project in my riding of La Verendrye. I know that the Rural Municipality of Stuartburn has been keen to see this project funded.

Can the minister tell us about the projects funded and what will it mean to the communities getting the funding? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations): I thank my colleague for that great question. Our $1.7- billion infrastructure plan is amongst the highest total infrastructure expenditures in Manitoba history and we w ill continue to invest strategically.

That includes water and waste water infrastructure projects which are critical to foster sustainable economic growth and safe, healthy communities for Manitobans to live and to work. This is just one of 24 water and w aste water projects that will soon begin, representing over $38 million in new capital spending. Madam Speaker, we will continue to deliver strategic infrastructure investments that make a real difference in the lives of Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview. Mr.

James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): No. No, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto. Neighbourhoods Alive! Funding Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Since 2001, the Neighbourhoods Alive! program has supported stronger neighbourhoods and communities in Manitoba.

2394 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017

(2) Neighbourhoods Alive! uses a commu - nity-led development model that partners with neighbourhood renewal corporations on projects that aim to revitalize communities.

(3) Neighbourhoods Alive! and the neighbourhood renewal corporations it supports have played a vital and important role in revitalizing many neighbourhoods in Manitoba through community-driven solutions, including: employment and training, education and recreation, safety and crime prevention, and housing– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order, please. Order. Order. Mr. Swan: –and physical improvements.

(4) Neighbourhoods Alive! now serves 13 neighbourhood renewal corporations across Manitoba, which have developed expertise in engaging with the ir local residents and determining the priorities of their communities.

(5) The provincial government's previous investments into Neighbourhoods Alive! have been bolstered by community and corporate donations as well as essential support from community volunteers, small businesses and local agencies.

(6) Late in 2016, the minister responsible for the Neighbourhoods Alive! program said new funding for initiatives was paused, and that the future of the Neighbourhoods Alive! program was being reviewed, bringing hundreds of community projects to a standstill.

(7) Neighbourhood renewal corporations and their communities are concerned this funding freeze is the first step in a slow phase -out of the Neighbourhoods Alive! grant program, which would have severe, negative impacts on families and communities.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: That the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba be urged to support the Neighbourhoods Alive! program and the communities served by neighbourhood renewal corporations by continuing to provide consistent core funding for existing neighbourhood renewal corporations and enhancing the public funding available for specific initiatives. This petition, Madam Speaker, is signed by many Manitobans. Thank you. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Taxi Industry Regulation Mr.

Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Manitoba a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service and al so puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2395 Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shie lds and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system. * (14:40)

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will tra nsfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. Signed by many, many Manitobans. Thank you. Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): I wish to present the following peti tion to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi serv ice and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) The regulations that had been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of the bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. Signed by many Manitobans. Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the ba ckground to this petition is as follows:

(1) The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

2396 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passeng ers, including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) The re were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. And this petition was signed by many Manitobans. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon.

Andrew Micklefield (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, this afternoon we would like to proceed with Estimates. Madam Speaker: The House will now resolve itself into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Executive Council. The floor is now open for questions. Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Chair, there is a well -known principle within government administration known as the duty to document. It is a foundational principle. It requires offices of the government, such as ministers' offices, to ensure that the actions of government are recorded or documented. I would like to ask the Premier through you: Is he familiar with this principle? And, if so, is he heeding this principle? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Thank you to the member. I just–I had undertaken to give a couple of questions' answers, and I've got the information the member had asked me at the last sitting, so I'll just do that first, if I could. First of all, the number of government employees an d the vacancy rate within the civil service was asked. On this one, I would say I would thank the –well, the c lerk, actually, and staff for attempting to compile this information, because it's – it wasn't easy.

It's a large organization, and so there was a lot of work involved, but –and also partly because the staffing levels are so dynamic, right, because you have –depends somewhat on the – there's some seasonal workers, as well. So it depends on the time of year. That the member from Flin Flon knows about fir es in the North is an example. That would just be one example we're– So I'm going to get the best numbers I can based on–and there's also people who take leaves, which confuses it a little bit, as well. Sometimes there are term positions; some are startin g, some are ending.

So I give you–my colleagues this as examples of some of the variables that make it tricky to just go, well, it's this number versus this number because it kind of depends on variables like that. That being said, as of March 31st of this year, 14,000–better just–be sure –162 was the number of individuals employed by the Manitoba government.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2397 Now, the member also asked me about the turnover rate for the fiscal year '16 -17. This, of course, refers to retirements or resignations and also would include in that number term positions that have expired. So, in that period of fiscal 2016-17, the turnover rate was 7.7 per cent. Now, of course, part of this –and I believe this is higher than it was, you know, 10, 20 years ago–is because of the d emographic reality of an aging workforce. We –we're–like all of –well, much of the world, we're –the baby boom is working its way through–so -called baby boom.

So there are many people who are approaching retirement, more so than was the case in the past, w hich makes it all the more important that as a government we are very conscious of making sure that we're recruiting people, that we have a quality workplace, that we have challenging careers for people that will allow them to find –find some job satisfaction, find their potential, if you will, in the workforce working for government. And so that recruiting aspect is especially critical when you have a higher turnover rate.

The second question the member had asked me about was political staff, and the ques tion was: Can the Premier provide us a list of all political staff employed by core government departments presently seconded from other organizations or agencies and indicate in which departments they work, the organizations from which they are seconded and their respective salaries. And the response there was easier: there are no political staff employed by core government departments presently seconded from other organizations or agencies. Ms. Marcelino: I thank the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) for that response to our previous question, and would like to ask the Premier for a copy of –if we're able to ask you for a copy of those figures, although it's in Hansard. [interjection] Okay, that's fine. An Honourable Member: I can re-read them. Ms. Marcelino: No, no, no, no. Okay, we'll just look it in Hansard. Now, Mr. Chair, I'd like the response to my first question, please. Mr. Pallister: Sure, well, I've been given the rules and I want to read those into the record because I think this is what the member's asking.

Now, these are the actual instructions, I would say, from the Government Records Office, the Archives of Manitoba. The record- keeping guidance that is given for ministers, last updated January this year, it says: reliable records are needed by Cabinet ministers to carry out their responsibilities effectively. Records provide important evidence of actions taken, decisions made, allow government to account for its actions. Ultimately, these records will form part of Manitoba's archival heritage.

Under The Archives and Recordkeeping Act, the Archives of Manitoba is responsible for central records, management, policy, guidance and processes. Ministers offices, like all government offices, are responsible for use of the policies and processes to ensure that records are effectively created and managed. The purpose of this guidance is to assist ministers and their staff with the management of ministers' office records.

It is intended to help ministers' offices understand their record-keeping obl igations and avoid two serious risks, which are the failure to document the actions and loss of records due to a failure in record- keeping processes or from unauthorized destruction. Records in ministers' offices: Two distinct categories of records are fo und in ministers' offices: one, personal constituency and caucus records.

Records compiled as part of the minister's constituency, caucus work, personal activities, are not government records under The Archives and Recordkeeping Act, and the requirements a nd obligations for managing ministers' office records do not apply. These personal records should be kept separately from the minister's office records. They may be removed from the office as the minister sees fit. If the minister wishes, they may be donated to the Archives of Manitoba by private agreement. And there's information on the Archives of Manitoba website if members are interested in that.

All other records in ministers' offices belong to the second category, which is ministers' office records, and that's the focus of the guidance here. So, category two, ministers' office records: These include all records made or received in the course of carrying out portfolio responsibilities and in the minister's role as a member of Cabinet. Ministers' office records, whether in paper, electronic or any other form, are government records subject to Archives and Recordkeeping Act. The term minister's office includes my office, all ministers, assistants to ministers as well, ministers' office staff.

It's important to note there is no separate category of political records that falls outside the

2398 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 scope of the ministers' office records. Records created by special assistants or other political staff when carrying out activities of the minister's office are government records and must be managed as part of the minister's office records.

The minister's office records typically include records of the activities of the minister relating to departmental operations, policy development and delivery, intergovernmental relat ions, stakeholder relations and other activities of government, all correspondence sent and received by the minister's office about departmental business as well, records pertaining to the minister's involvement in Cabinet or any of its committees, recor ds relating to public communications and issues and management– issues-management activities –I'm sorry –records relating to administrative functions such as human resources, financial management, ministerial travel and expenses.

Published material, it shoul d be noted, is not a record, and other reference material that might be common to every minister's office is not considered a record, so they're not, like –in the old days, you'd see a phone book, right? You know, stuff that everybody uses in their office is not considered to be a record. Record-keeping requirements: This

section outlines the principal obligations and requirements for creating and managing ministers' office records. Ministers' offices must be aware of, and in compliance with, record-keeping legislation, policies and standards. They should ensure that all staff understand the requirements, that appropriate responsibility is assigned and that records - management activities are monitored. Creating records: It is expected that ministers' offices will create full and accurate records of all actions, decisions and other activities related to the official business of the office.

Full documentation is needed for continuity and effective government administration. It also enables government to account for its actions not just to the public under freedom of information laws, but also to the Legislature, auditor– Mr. Chairperson: Sorry to interrupt. I was thinking of last night. The–or the First Minister's time is up. * (15:10) Ms. Marcelino: I thank the Premier (Mr. Pallister). That's very informative, knowing that all that – those documents have to be kept.

Records keeping or duty to document helps ensure continuity within government decision making and helps promote effective decision-making processes. Mr. Chair, does the Premier agree that the duty to document is an important principle which ought to govern the records -keeping activities of government offices, including the Executive Council? Mr. Pallister: Well, I'm reading these rules into the record. They are government record advice or guidance. And all of us, I think, endeavour to follow the guidance that we are given to some degree.

I note with interest, though, we are talking about some issues curre ntly before the –of–in the public interest–not enough at this committee, but elsewhere–like, for example, how to reduce wait times for Manitobans for health care where advice was given to the previous government, expert advice was given but not followed, not taken, also not disclosed, in fact.

The reports were made, like the Peachey report to government that would have been instrumental, if adopted and acted upon, in moving us towards shorter wait times, at least according to the expert analysis of the peopl e that the previous government put enough faith in to hire. And so, following advice from experts is important. I'm not suggesting that every government must always follow the advice of all experts consulted; that's not what I mean. And I understand if there are reasons why the previous government failed to follow, for example, Mr.

Peachey's advice or the advice of expert financial advisers, in the case of taxation or in the case of medical –Manitoba medical professionals who were acting as advisory people to the previous government that the previous government may not have wanted to follow that advice. But I've yet to hear an argument as to why they didn't want to shorten wait times. I have yet to hear an argument as to why they did not wish to act on the advice, which was invested in and paid for by Manitobans. And I have not yet heard an explanation as to why the reports were covered up.

This is not only true of health- care advice from experts but also true of advice that was solicited in respect of managing Hydro. And so the expert who was commissioned, Mr. Philippe Dunsky, who was commissioned to give the previous government advice and to give the Public Utilities Board advice, in fact, as an expert adviser around the issues of demand -side management or how to lower hydro bills for Manitobans going forward, which is an important

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2399 issue, given the amazing amount of debt that's been incurred in Manitoba Hydro– yet to hear an explanation as to why Mr. Dunsky's advice was not followed or adhered to. It was–his advice was to set up a separate, arm's-length demand -side management agency that would, in his estimation, work better than the so- called Power Smart operations within Hydro, that his research showed that –and it was presented at the Public Utilities Board, some of it, but an additional detailed report was covered up.

And his advice was clear, that a separate, demand -side management agency could well work better, and he would recommend that. Now, the previous government said they would do that. They –their position 1 of the climate -change strategy they outlined was –their position was clear, that they would make this demand- side management agency separate and that it would work better; that was No. 1 in the green plan of the previous government. We now are–we have a bill which we've advanced to do what the previous government was advised to do and said they would do; they did not do it, and we're proposing to do it.

We think it's especially important to try to do everything we can to help Mani tobans pay –you know, get better value from their hydro investment and to have a sustainable hydro operation. So, you know, following the advice of experts is something that we think is very often an excellent idea. It seems now that the government –the f ormer government in opposition is taking a position against something which they previously were for, and that would be the separate, arm's -length demand- side management agency. So the member asks about advice from experts.

I would say there's some evide nce, at least coming forward now, that the previous administration may have used taxpayer money to consult with experts but didn't necessarily follow their advice when it came to Hydro or shortened wait times. Ms. Marcelino: The question we're asking of t he Premier (Mr. Pallister) is related to records keeping, duty to document. And along that line of questioning we have this issue of the use of private communications, be it email or phone, and the issue of security, transparency and accountability. Mr.

Chair, can the Premier explain how the use of private email or phone system is a secure form of communication or can he provide –in general terms without going into specifics–the nature of the advice he has received on this matter? Mr. Pallister: Well, I a ppreciate the member's questions about security because it is really important.

We've seen in –just in recent days, we've seen this attempt by dishonourable people to try to disrupt the operations of governments and disrupt the operations of private compa nies and so on by injecting viruses into their, you know –what's it called–it's not called blackmail, but they're trying – [interjection] ransomware. Ransomware –to try and extricate money from public agencies to heal the system which they themselves made sick . Like, this is just really dangerous behaviour. And so I come from a background in the private sector of being very, very –as does the member for Elmwood (Mr.

Maloway) –of being very, very careful about protecting data and protecting information that's e ntrusted to us, and I take that really seriously. So, when I started in this job a year or so ago, I was very concerned that we do our utmost to make sure that the information that we're dealing with is –as much as possible –protected, knowing that there are people out there who would abuse. I'm not, of course, not referring to members of the Legislature in this. I'm saying there are people out there who would maliciously try to–well, just the University of Calgary is an example.

I understand they actually pa id the ransom to get their –get the programs back going. I think it was two years ago. So that's really concerning to me because we deal here, in government –as the member knows as a former Cabinet minister –we're dealing with a lot of very, very important in formation that deserves to be safeguarded. And so, in early days, I did have discussion with folks who have –I claim no expertise on this –but people who have expertise on this just to say, how should we be dealing with issues around information handling and so on.

And my c lerk has undertaken to glean, now, from sources that we won't disclose, I suppose, today, but sources with expertise on this issue how we can not just carry on with the previous practices, but enhance them and strengthen them to make sure we're doing everything we can to protect information that should be protected. And so that has been my concern and priority from the get-go, and I know it's a concern shared by, certainly, by all government members. I expect by all

2400 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 members of the Legisl ature, who would not want to see leaks or information come out. * (15:20) Even now, I mean, with this new book out that former Cabinet minister has written, I'm very concerned in some respects about it. I think it's – I forget what it's called –stories tha t shouldn't be told, or something like that.

But it contains, I'm told already, references to discussions that happened among former members of the Privy Council. [interjection] Yes, Stories Best Left Untold, and for those of us who are concerned about confidentiality and security of information, these are stories left best untold, some of them, because some of them relate to discussions around Cabinet, some of them relate to discussions around Treasury Board. That's –that might a source of some amusement or adventure to some, but it's a source of concern to me because these are to be confidential discussions.

When members in a Cabinet or a caucus have–share points of view, they should be secure in the knowledge that they're protected in that and that's how you build a stronger caucus, that's how you build a more effective organization. So I'm concerned when I hear that former Cabinet ministers are abusing Cabinet secrecy rules because they don't apply just when they're in Cabinet. They apply when they leav e Cabinet and they apply when they leave politics and they should not be spoken about. And so I –the former member for St.

Johns may be placing his desire for activities in retirement ahead of his desire for respect from those of us who value confidentialit y and respect Cabinet secrecy. Ms. Marcelino: We appreciate the issue of security of communications, but we also want to ensure transparency, accountability and integrity of official communications. When FIPPA'd for the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) official communications while he was away on vacation, and at that time that was close to or around the time when budget is being done, we thought, while he was away on vacation. There was no record of communication from email or phone.

We were just asking the Premier: He –does he think private email or phone system is a secure form of communication and should be the way to communicate officially? Mr. Pallister: Well, I think one should utilize systems that are not only transparent, but also effective at guardi ng against the leakage or loss of confidentiality and security. We place these concerns very high; that's why I have asked the c lerk to give me suggestions and recommendations on how the system can be strengthened. There is no reason to believe that pers onal or government –one is stronger or more secure than the other.

That's not the issue here. I think the issue is how do we make all communications more secure and so that's what we're endeavouring to do. At the same time, and I understand the –some of the concerns–not of these members but of others–are, you know, the frequency of communication and so on. That's–I've already put all that on the record so I don't know –I don't see the reason to–necessity to repeat all those things again.

But, certainly, I'm concerned about making sure that, you know, important work is done in a secure way, and I think that's really the focus of where we're trying to move because the people who would make mischief of information or try to drill into information of a confidential nature apparently don't sleep. They're always looking for ways to get that information or to interfere with communications and data, and so I'm–I want to be sure that we're ahead of them, not behind them, whenever possible.

On the confidence issues, I wanted to just to share with the members why Cabinet confidence matters because I think sometimes we–perhaps we don't understand that this a 'tenent' of a stable government. We saw with the previous government what happened. The member was not a ring leader in it, but she saw what happened to the government, and she's referenced budget making and the budget -making period. Throughout the budget-making period in 2014 and '15, the previous government wasn't engaged in budget making; they were engaged in an internal rebellion.

They were engaged in a process, some of them –at least six, five Cabinet ministers and another member –publicly attacking their leader. This served as a disservice to those who understand the importance of focus, the importance of focusing on what matters to Manitobans. Budget-making processes were under way, and yet Cabinet ministers, in the middle of that budget-making process, stepped aside from their portfolios, walked away from them and left new ministers in place to overse e that process, coming in, in some cases, with virtually no knowledge of the portfolio, and it's no wonder that the budget

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2401 projections were so far off. What actually happened, they weren't even remotely close to what happened at the end of the year, as t he member knows: hundreds of millions of dollars off, no significant progress in terms of things like reducing wasteful expenditure, overlap, duplication in government because, well, the people in charge of the portfolios were just in charge of them partway through the process. And all of them were, to some degree or another, engaged in things like lining up delegates to support this or that candidate.

They weren't engaged in trying to achieve the goals that satisfy the needs for Manitobans to have stronger financial futures or better health care, more accessible sooner, to invest in the things that matter to Manitobans. These weren't the –these weren't principal focus of the members; they were distracted. So how did that come about? Well, partly because of a loss of confidence, some would say, in the leader. I would say, at least in part, because of a lack of confidence in the people who would organize a rebellion two and a half years into a mandate.

The NDP were given the strongest mandate in their history, and the leader should have been respected, in my estimation, and I said that to the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Selinger), and I mean it, and he was disrespected by his own colleagues who organized a rebellion against him, causing incredible damage to their political party –the least of my concerns–but, more importantly, to the people of Manitoba, by neglecting the priorities they were hired to address.

So Cabinet confidence matters, and in my next opportunity, I will explain why it matters because I think all members should consider –rather than going to a book signing, they should consider not honouring that kind of conduct, which is a disservice to Cabinet confidence. Ms. Marcelino: I appreciate the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) comments and his views of what happened in the past. We have all learned from it and we have moved on. Now we are in this position, and we're grateful for this position, and we want to do our best as members of Her Majesty's loyal opposition.

So we're wondering, and accountabi lity, transparency, integrity of ministers' communication, including of the Premier , is a public –or is a Manitoba's concern–of concern to Manitobans. So we'd like to know the Premier's use of private communication, if he considers that secure, and does that aid in promoting transparency, accountability and integrity of communications? And also, is the Premier still, after all these issues have been raised, still using private communication instead of official communication? Mr.

Pallister: Well, again, I'd have to remind the member that the communication that I do is all focused on working for the people of Manitoba. It's not focused on garnering delegates for the next leadership review. I don't choose to focus on trying to recruit other members of our team to rebel against other members of our team. These are the–these were the principal activities of the NDP for months. * (15:30) I also pay all my communication when I am away. Six business days this calendar year is the total amount of ti me.

Any communication I've done I've pledged to not have the taxpayers pay a nickel for it, unlike the promise of the previous NDP administration when they said that Manitobans wouldn't pay a penny for the bipole line, which we now know to be at least a c ouple of billion dollars off. I have kept my promise. So the member uses the word integrity, but I attempt in–as best as I possibly can –to demonstrate that rather than talk about it.

I would also say to the member that we have reduced by almost half the level of political staff in my office, so –the payroll under the previous premier was $8 million, and it's $4.3 million now. And I would say that demonstrates integrity in the sense that I am not using taxpayers' dollars to inflate the number of my staff. T hat being said, I also know that the previous government invested taxpayers' dollars in leadership campaign staff. As does the member.

And so they seconded–and this is, I think, maybe the origin of the question about secondments– the previous government s econded numerous people from–principally from public sector union leadership positions to come in and work for them, corresponding in large part to the leadership campaign of the incumbent leader, positioning people like Heather Grant-Jury in their office, paying her out of taxpayers' money coinciding exactly –no one in that position before the leadership campaign was called and announced, no one in that position after it concluded. Exactly coinciding.

Exactly coinciding with the leadership campaign. A staffer is

2402 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 brought in–Heather Grant-Jury, in this case –paid by taxpayers to work in the premier's office. Now, was there new work suddenly in that exact time period that was not to do with the leadership contest that Ms. Grant-Jury was hired to do? Because no one has claimed that. Not one person within the NDP organization or elsewhere. So the previous administration hired union staff to work on the taxpayer dime during the leadership campaign. So–you know, I give those as just two examples.

The member appears concerned about whether I–you know, how many texts I sent while I was working with my colleagues to demonstrate the effectiveness of the new government, or how many emails or how many phone calls in the six business days I was away this year. And thi s fixation is only of mild interest, I think, to people who care about the future of the province of Manitoba. What most people care about, I think, are issues germane to them and not a National Enquirer-type things. That being said, one thing is certain: we're working as a unified team.

And I appreciate the member's comments about accepting and accepting with honour, because she's an honourable person, and I always had affection for her since I've had the chance to get to know her. But she is trying to do her best at the role that she's been given, and that's good. That's–and so am I. So am I. Ms. Marcelino: Still, I'm not clarified –I'm not getting any clarity on the question of official communication using personal email or phone devices. But I'd like–in the interest of time, I'd like to ask another question. The Premier (Mr.

Pallister) and his government are presently conducting a review of the FIPPA act. Mr. Chair, will the Premier commit that any changes to FIPPA ensure that all the communications of the President of the Executive Council and his staff, regardless of the mechanisms used, remains within the scope of this act? Mr. Pallister: I'm very excited about making FIPPA less restrictive in its applications so that more records are released. I thi nk that that is a worthy goal.

I remember the investigation that occurred –I believe the Ombudsman looked at the withholding of records, and this is a problem because, frankly, I don't think–I'll paraphrase the Ombudsman's findings, but the Ombudsman sa id there was no plausible explanation as to how a government document that contradicted the official government position around Christine Melnick's knowledge and the premier's office's knowledge of a political protest rally being organized by the minister' s–at the minister's direction.

The Ombudsman's conclusion was there was no plausible explanation as to why that government document, which proved that knowledge existed in the premier's office, was withheld from the media and withheld from the opposition. That's the kind of thing I don't like to see happen. I don't think anyone who respects the role of the fifth estate should want to see that happen. That's the kind of thing, I think, that deserves to be revealed. Certainly, there are issues of Cabinet secrecy and Cabinet confidence, and those are legitimate, I think, if not abused.

But, at the same time, when I asked questions of the previous administration concerning the purchase of Tiger Dams, I was given the comment that this was ministerial–this was subject to ministerial protection. And we were asking questions that –of documents that should have been disclosed under, not just the freedom of information legislation, but under Finance legislation, should have been disclosed. Untendered contracts require d to be disclosed, and they were not only not disclosed–on the Legislative Library computer is where, at that time, was the only place you could get those untendered contracts.

It was supposed to be listed on there, and they were not, and I'm here, I'm talking about these Tiger Dams purchases. There was a series of them, half a dozen or more untendered contracts let year after year after year, never put on the listing as untendered. So how do you deal with that with FIPPA? That's the kind of thing we're t rying to figure out so that we can make sure this type of thing doesn't happen again, because if you're going to issue an untendered contract, make it public and explain it. That's transparency. That's not what happened under the previous government's term of office.

So, on the Christine Melnick situation, the Ombudsman said there was no plausible explanation as to how that could have been–that document could have been withheld –document was a copy of an email directly from, if I recall correctly, from the minister's office, Ms. Melnick's office, to the premier's office, so proof –proving that the knowledge was in both offices, and the full assurance should have been given to people that that was the case, but it was not; it was covered up. This is the Ombudsman saying this.

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2403 Now, this is the type of thing that we want to–we do not–we want to learn from. We don't want to–this type of thing to happen again, because, clearly, I think it denigrates the respect that all of us want Manitobans to have for this institution and the people who work in it. The comments of Mr. Mackintosh in respect of the Tiger Dams contracts, the untendered nature of them, are going to be public. They'll be reported on. What he is verifying is that this was part of the reason for the rebellion in the first place among NDP Cabinet ministers.

He's verifying that there were repeated efforts by Steve Ashton to make these untendered contracts happen, that he was rejected by members of Treasury Board, many of whom were part of the rebellion–Jennifer Howard, Theresa Oswald, Stan Struthers –and he was rejected, yet he kept pushing and kept trying to get these untendered contracts given to his pal. Now, if you're going to give an untendered contract, you better have a better reason for it than that someone is your pal. That's not a good reason. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Just a couple of things I want to follow up before we move on.

In a previous answer, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) had said something that led me to believe that perhaps the government has contracted or hired a security adviser on issues like– An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Chairperson: The honourable First Minister. * (15:40) Mr. Pallister: Just to be clear for the member from Flin Flon , no–consulted with some knowledgeable people–no, bill–just that that was just an early discussion, early days discussion t hat we had, but now the Clerk of the Executive Council is leading the research into how we can make the system work better.

So, just to clarify for the member, no, it's not a outside private outfit. We're starting by taking a look at a variety of things. I think we'll be looking at, among other things, getting a sample of what other governments are doing right now in terms of protecting their security, because I think this is a concern as well at the federal government level and in other provinces, to see if we can't learn from what their practices are, what are they looking at doing.

There may even be some real good opportunities for us to benefit from seeing, you know, what other jurisdictions are doing in respect of getting ahead of these people who would try to abuse the trust of others. Mr. Lindsey: I thank the Premier for clarifying my possible misunderstanding of his answer. So he's had some discussions with people about security issues, particularly in relation to types of communication: email, phones.

So my question, then, is: Is what security protocols, I guess, has the Premier got in place now, seeing as, apparently, it would appear, at least, that you're –he's not using his government-issued cellphone or email accounts when he's out of the country? Mr. Pallister: Well, we're using the same types of protocols and practices that the previous government was advised on and we'll continue to, but what I'm talking about here is upgrading them to try to get – and I think there's going to be an opportunity for all members of the Legislature to have discussion on that. I think this is an important issue.

None of us wants to get, you know, see important information, whether it might be health data which is deeply personal to people; it might be financial data; it shouldn't get out. You know, we should be protecting it. At the same time, when members are having discussion with one another –or, in fact, with constituents–these are often –not always –but often, very, very personal discussions.

And so, as I've shared with the member before, having advised people on personal and having learned a lot –on personal issues over a number of years and having learned a lot about them, I wanted them to know they could trust me to protect that information and make sure that it didn't go to someone it wasn't supposed to go to. So I take this very seriously and we're doing our best to investigate ways to make the systems we all use work even better. I'll just finish up, if I could, on the record-keeping things. I was almost at the end, there, but there is some other advice that they give on managing paper.

It said: Ministers' offices should be aware of the creation of records in multiple formats–paper and electronic– using separate applications, paper -based file systems, email services and correspondence tracking systems present special record -keeping challenges. Regardless of format, the complete records of each activity or issue and of the office's ongoing activities as a whole need to be managed comprehensively to

2404 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 ensure that records are kept and remain accessible for as long as required. Since the tracking system used by ministers' offices aims –may contain records that are not duplicated in a paper file system as well as descriptive and tracking informati on needed to understand and access ministers' records, these electronic records are an essential part of the minister's office records and must be managed accordingly.

Office procedures for creating, filing and tracking paper and electronic records should be established to ensure that records of each activity are maintained together or persistently linked so they can be accessed and viewed, and to enable the full set of records to be retained and disposed of as required by the record schedules for ministers ' office records. Since ministers' offices have common record-keeping requirements, use of standardized procedures is recommended. Now, you'll note –members will note from all this advice that there is nowhere here any mention of security.

There's no refe rence whatsoever in any of the information I've read to security and this is part of my concern. So the member asked what protocols I'm following. Well, I'm following the protocols of previous governments, but it's not good enough because there's not, in m y mind, sufficient attention being paid in this guidance document to protecting the security and integrity of the information from encroachment or interference by those who might mean mischief.

I don't want to sound paranoid, but we've just seen –in the las t few days and weeks – we've just seen evidence enough, I think, to give concern–or a higher–an elevated concern to the need to make sure that we're doing everything we can to protect information. So, again, I say to the member, yes, certainly, you know, there's information that we want to make available to the public. There's also information that should not be made available to anyone because it's confidential information. And that has to be protected, as do records of data that we accumulate over time th rough government agencies.

These are not things that should be made available to others who might mean harm or abuse the information when they get it. Mr. Chairperson: The member for Rossmere would like the floor for a second. Hon. Andrew Micklefield (Government House Leader): Yes, just as the time is 4:40 –sorry–3:46 or so, I believe there's previous agreement to seek a recess to–from about 4 to 4:30, maybe a few minutes before 4 o'clock 'til about 4:30. Mr.

Pallister: What I'd prefer, because I don't know how long this next meeting's going to go, and I don't want members to be inconvenienced by that, and I don't want to walk out of a meeting partway through it, so what I'd prefer is to –if I could go as close to 4:00 as I possibly can, not be late, and then that'd be it. I might be able to get back, but I don't like members having to sit here for –and then it ends up my meeting goes 'til 5 to 5 or something. That's no good for the use of time of members here, if that's okay with the members. Mr.

Chairperso n: So, I have a –[interjection] Is the committee in favour of recessing at approximately 3:55, and if the Premier (Mr. Pallister) happens to be back here before 5 o'clock, we can continue with the Estimates. If not, the committee will be deemed risen at that time of 5 o'clock. All agreed? [Agreed] Mr. Pallister: Yes, I just –I was going to elaborate a little bit on this issue of–because we're addressing– or the members are addressing communications records, and that's fine, but what they're also not addressing is the use of taxpayers' resources for non-publicly beneficial things.

And so I wanted to re-emphasize that I take very seriously the stewardship aspects of not spending money that is entrusted to me and our government for personal items or for per sonal things. That's why I made the commitment whenever I'm away, and including the six business days I've been away this year, that if I incur any costs, they're not to be given to the taxpayer. * (15:50) This is the opposite of what happened under the previous administration. I referenced Heather Grant-Jury.

I believe we were talking about –I could be wrong on the exact number, but I think it was a $134,000-a-year position that she was hired into, coinciding directly with the leadership campaign. Now, this wasn't paid for by the premier personally – the former premier. It wasn't paid for by the New Democratic Party; it was paid for by taxpayers. And now that's an issue that didn't get a lot of attention at the time or since, but it got my attention because I just don't think that's right. I don't think that –I don't think politicians should be using, in a leadership campaign–like, I'm sure the member for Burrows (Ms.

Lamoureux) is not using taxpayers' resources to run her leadership campaign. I expect the member

May 24, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2405 for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew) would not do that, but that was done –that was done by a sitting premier, and that's not appropriate. I also could reference, in addition, a hiring which coincided with that same time period, a secondment, a new principal secretary. Mr. Paul McKie is a Unifor labour staff rep –good for him. He's brought on board right around the time that Liam Martin was shown the door. He comes on and he's hired. What's he hired to do? What's his job description?

That's –apparently the media FIPPA'd for that, and they couldn't get the job description– coincides, though, with the leadership campaign– salary for that one, over $100,000 a year. These are expenses that were incurred coincidental to a leadership campaign, and yet, you know, the taxpayers of Manitoba pay the bill, but they don't get the value for the work that's done because the work that was done doesn't pertain to them. It pertains to hanging on to the contested leadership. Now, there's wrongdoing there.

I–as I've said earlier, p retty clearly, I don't have much admiration for those who rebelled against the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Selinger) when he was the leader, and that's –you know, I'm just one Manitoban who values unity and understands the importance when you're elected to government of working for the people, not working against them, so maybe my opinion's not shared by some. I know it wouldn't be shared by some of the rebel organizers of the Halloween rebellion.

That being said, there is no doubt whatsoever that the cost to Manitobans would very likely be in the tens of millions of dollars at the very least, just in terms of the lost opportunities to find savings which the previous government committed to doing, which it did not do, just in terms of the additional deficits that were incurred and grew through that fiscal year, as a consequence of a lack of oversight and prudent, focused management.

And I would say the other damage that would have been done would be to the trust of Manitobans who would want to believe their government was focused not on themselves and their own restructuring, but more that they were focused on the things that mattered to Manitobans.

And so this –their constant line of questioning– I'm happy to continue taking questions, but not satisfied th at these questions concerning phone records or email records are as relevant to Manitobans who are concerned with things like health care, education, infrastructure, the plight of the murdered and missing women, the circumstances around poverty, the circum stances around people trying to find child care, communities concerned that their children are being taken away from their community by Child and Family Services.

These are all pertinent issues that matter, frankly, deeply to many Manitobans, but we're spending hours on these issues instead. Mr. Lindsey: I agree with the Premier (Mr. Pallister) in one sense, that I think we've spent a lot of hours on this that could have been spent more productively talking about other things, if only we'd have got a strai ghtforward answer to the questions earlier on. So I'll ask one last time and if you don't have time to answer today, then perhaps, you know, you can think about it and get back to us.

But, if you're looking at some new security protocols or systems to p rotect emails and phone calls, people are concerned and it's not just us politicians. It's people in the public are concerned about what you've done presently –how you've communicated, who you–not –maybe not necessarily directly who, but how you've communica ted, what type of security you've used. I'm sure you read the paper, watch the news. Hillary Clinton in the US was in big trouble for using private server.

There's some question about the Trump administration and their ties to Russia and security, and Brad Wall has been in trouble in Saskatchewan for using private emails and things of that nature. So the people of Manitoba, quite rightfully, have a concern and really deserve a simple, straightforward answer to so what are we doing today. What are you doi ng today? What systems are you using that will be available if someone wants to FIPPA those communications at some point in time, as should be available or allowed? Mr. Chairperson: The hour is 3:55–the honourable First Minister. Mr. Pallister: Sure.

That's a fair question. Yes, I'm endeavouring to strengthen the mechanisms that I inherited, make them better than they were before, make sure that we get as much information as we possibly can out, but I would have to emphasize this to the member –[interjection] Am I being heckled now by –oh, thank you. I would have to emphasize this–the member would have to ask this question: during the rebellion, the media would have maybe been able to get access to all of the phone call

2406 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 2017 numbers that were made from various mi nisterial offices. What percentage of those would have been made not out of a desire to help Manitobans have shorter wait times, but out of a desire to get delegates lined up for a leadership race? Hard to say. Impossible to say, right? See, just disclosing that you used government email doesn't mean you're pure as a driven snow, does it, right? So it's –I want the member to understand I appreciate the greater intent of his question and the member for Logan's (Ms.

Marcelino) question, but I need them to understand I am dedicated to making sure that our government doesn't abuse the trust of taxpayers. When you had a rebellion in the middle of your term and a leadership contest ensues, five members of Cabinet quit. Rookie members come in and they're in charg e of portfolios never been in charge of before, for the most part. The missed opportunities are in to the tens of millions of dollars right there. Deficits run up to double what was projected.

Now that's a serious issue on the heels of tax hikes, the large st in Manitoba's modern history that were promised they wouldn't be invoked, to the tune of half a billion dollars a year going off the kitchen tables of Manitobans. And the best that we can get here for hours on end is a question about how many texts, ema ils I send in the six business days that I'm away from Manitoba? You got to ask yourself: If you're really concerned about providing a quality of opposition that is becoming of the opposition, is this the best you can do? Mr.

Chairperson: The hour being 3:57, as previously agreed, committee will recess. The committee recessed at 3:58 p.m. FINANCE * (15:00) Madam Chairperson (Colleen Mayer) : Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume considerations of the Estimates of the Department of Finance. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Don't we all look spiffy this afternoon. I have just a few general questions recognizing early on that the dollar amounts and what is being done with them probably falls within other departments. I'm the environment critic, so I'm mostly just trying to figure out which department I would be asking the more specific questions of.

So I'm hoping you can give me some guidance on that front. So s tarting with ALUS, the Alternative Land Use survey–or–Services program, if the government were to have put some money into this program this year, which department would have those funds? To provide a little b

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-2-57
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 2nd hansardpdf 57.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c1355901fb17c8d0c144674abc084bc420c3b0fb

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