Manitoba Hansard — 12 October 2021 (Sitting 80B, 42nd Legislature, 3rd Session)

42-3-80b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 80B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, October 12, 2021 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon.

Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Fort Whyte

4027 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, October 12, 2021 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? Tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: And I would note that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honour able Minister of Con servation and Climate please proceed with her statement. Manitoba Wildfire Service Hon.

Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Conservation and Climate): Honourable members of the Legislative Assembly, I rise today to acknowledge the heroic efforts of some very special individuals. In close partnership with o ther agencies, com - munities and local authorities, the Manitoba Wildfire Service protects lives and properties, while ensuring healthy and resilient ecosystems continue to thrive. As part of that important mandate, the Manitoba Wildfire Service is faced with the challenge of managing wild- fires throughout the province each summer.

The dedicated women and men of the Manitoba Wildfire Service, as well as the many members of the supporting government departments, agencies and local responders that were assisted in wildfire opera- tions across the province this year deserve respect and praise for their courageous efforts. The 2021 wildfire season proved to be the most challenging in our province's recent history, second only to the record season of 1989. The severity of the 2021 season was directly attributed to many factors. One major factor is climate change, and that has caused severe drought conditions and extreme fire behaviour.

There were also multiple communities directly threatened with fire activity during this simultaneously across most of the pro- vince. These factors challenged provincial resources the entire season. Manitoba was not alone in our challenges this summer. Similar battles occurred across the country, including BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and northwest Ontario, which stretched national resources to a criti- cal level.

The strength of partnerships and the importance of a whole -of-government approach to wildfire and emergency response to prepare for the increasing effects of climate change t ruly came to the forefront during the 2021 season, including the many trained and dedicated emergency firefighters from com - munities across Manitoba who joined the battle. For this reason, we also want to recognize the efforts of all of the federal, provi ncial and local responders, the many provincial and territorial wild - fire agencies from across Canada, as well as our inter- national partners for their valued assistance this season.

We also cannot forget our international partners from South Africa who t ravelled across the world to assist, as well as our partners from the state of Michigan in the US. Without the remarkable efforts of these dedicated professionals, the toll on our com - munities and the citizens of Manitoba would have been far greater. Their tremendous contribution to keeping Manitobans safe while also protecting our communities and vital natural resources is greatly appreciated.

The professionalism, courage and commitment demonstrated by the staff of the Manitoba Wildfire Service and their fellow colleagues has earned a special place in the history of Manitoba and, for that, we will forever be grateful. On behalf of the government of Manitoba and the citizens of our province, we truly wish to thank all of these dedicated professionals for their service. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): It is a great pleasure to extend my heartfelt gratitude to all of the people who came together this summer to battle one of Manitoba's most severe wildfire seasons in recent history.

Over 400 of our own Manitoba firefighters were joined by Canadian firefighters from other provinces, military personnel, and a 109- person firefighting unit from

4028 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 South Africa who were here to protect our commun - ities, forests and wildlife. I want to send a special shout -out to the fire - fighters from South Africa, who not only brought their firefighting expertise, but also came to Manitoba with a strong morale and fresh energy. I know many appre- ciated their practice of dancing and singing in order to build team dynamics and strengthen communication among team members. The heroic efforts of all indi - viduals involved in fighting this summer's wildfires will not be forgotten.

While we're grateful for everyone who worked and risked their lives to bring the nearly 450 wildfires across the province under control, this year's record - setting wildfire season, coupled with an extremely dry summer, should serve as another wake -up call for Manitobans about the dangers of climate change. We lost more than 1.2 million hectares of land to wildfires this year, and over 4,000 Manitobans had to be evacuated from their homes. The majority of these were Indigenous people who could not return to their communities for weeks.

The extreme drought that spurred the wildfires also hit our agriculture sector hard, with some muni - cipalities declaring states of agricultural disaster and others restricting water use for months on end. We cannot afford to fight only the symptoms of climate change. We must do more to fight the root causes. Today, I call on the government to take more meaningful action in the fight against climate change so that the wildfire and drought season we experi - enced this summer does not become the norm in our province or in our world.

While I commend the fire - fighters who risked their lives to bring Manitoba's wildfires under control this summer, this government must do its

part in preventing more record- setting wildfire and drought seasons in the future. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I ask leave to respond to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, I join other members of the Legislature in thanking the firefighters who've done such im portant and valiant work this summer when there were very dry conditions in our province. This year, Winnipeg set a record in having the smokiest July in history: 137 hours of smoke.

There were hundreds of wildfires, covering more than a million hectares. Many people, most particularly from Pauingassi and Little Grand Rapids, were displaced, and in the case of these com munities, for several months. We are seeing the impact of climate change. We will need to develop new, innovative approaches for forest stewardship and for managing fires in the years ahead. It is important to acknowledge the fire fighters who came all the way from South Africa. Several years ago I had the opportunity to visit South Africa. They, like us, are seeing the effects of climate change.

When we arrived, Cape Town was in the midst of a very severe drought. It was so severe that there were projections that Cape Town would be the first major city in the world to run out of water. Fortunately, with severe rationing, Cape Town did not run out of water. In the last two years, South Africa has been hit hard by the COVID pandemic. It has caused problems for their health-care system and for their economy and yet, this year, they were able to send fire fighters to help us. Thank you, thank you, thank you to South Africa.

Let us, in the months ahead, not forget about the efforts of fire fighters from Manitoba and from else - where, including South Africa, who played such an important role in containing the fires and in reducing the smoke. Let us also make sure we're investing in the training so that we will have extra capacity here in Manitoba, and so that when South Africa or other countries are having dif ficulty with fires, we are to help them as they were there to help us this year. Thank you, South Africa. Thank you to all the firefighters and others who helped contain the fires in Manitoba.

It was an incredible job this year. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Nathaniel Brown Ms. Janice Morley-Lecomte (Seine River): It is an honour to rise today to highlight the incredible work of a young man in my constituency. I wish to recog- nize Nathaniel Brown and his fundraising for indi - viduals with Crohn's and colitis disease. At the age of six, Nathaniel demonstrated admir- able leadership by selling lemonade and cookies in his neighbourhood as his first fundraising initiative. Now, at the age of 10, Nathaniel participates in the annual Gutsy Walk to raise awareness and funds for Crohn's

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4029 and colitis and is one of this year's honorary co-chairs of the Gutsy Walk for Manitoba with his father, Kyle. * (13:40) The Gutsy Walk was held virtually this year due to the pandemic, and the weather the night before had left their street slick from rain, but Nathaniel and his family rose to the occasion. Nathaniel pledged to perform several laps around his cul -de-sac for every level of funds he raised. He raised a total of $3,080 and completed 50 laps in total on his bike, on his scooter and even backwards on his go-kart.

This year, Nathaniel's younger brother joined in the Gutsy Walk. Nathaniel has a younger sister, who is four, and will soon be joining the family to bring awareness to Crohn's and c olitis. As a family, the Browns have raised just under $10,000. The funds help Crohn's and Colitis Canada raise awareness of the diseases, provide support for parents, families and patients, and drive research for more effective treat - ments and the discovery of cures. The disease impacts over 270,000 Canadians today.

I am inspired by Nathaniel and his family for their tireless volunteerism and meaningful contributions to the community. Winnipeg is proud to have Nathaniel representing and supporting his fellow Canadians through this important cause. Thank you. Mystery Lake School District Support Staff Ms. Danielle Adams (Thompson): Today I rise to commend the 180 educational support staff at the School District of Mystery Lake who stood up for their rights to be treated fairly by this government. These staff are essential, including custodians, main- tenance workers, educational assistants, librarian clerks and IT staff.

None of them wanted to go on strike shortly before the start of school, but felt it was necessary and had–the only option available to them. Had–they have been working without a contract and a wage increase since the PC passed Bill 28 in 2017, which would freeze wages for two years while the new agreement was negotiated. Even though bill 28 was never proclaimed into law, it has been–and subject to court challenges, this government acted as if it was in law. This is simply unacceptable. Support staff are hard-working and indispensable to schools and de - serve a fair deal.

After four years without a contract, it only took four days of them picketing for the staff to get a satisfactory offer, which was promptly accepted so they could go back to work as soon as possible supporting our children. While I want to point out the lack of appreciation and respect by this government shown to educational support staff in Thompson and around the province, I also want to highlight the incredible visible support that they received from the com munity. That was – teachers, parents, community leaders and community members all came together to support the support staff and how deserving they were.

In the words of the –Matt Winterton, their staff rep, it is concrete actions and solidarity like this that build the social and economic fabrics of our society. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Isla Pleskach Hon. Aud rey Gordon (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): Madam Speaker, Isla Pleskach is a seven-year-old girl from Sage Creek who has col - lected over 1.3 million drink tabs to support Tabs for Wheelchairs. This program was started by Gwen Buccini in 1998 to help purchase motorized wheelchairs for children and youth with physical disabilities.

After Isla's neighbour told her about the program, she set the ambitious goal of collecting 100,000 tabs. What started with one mason jar became a vase, then freezer bags, then large containers full of tabs. Over a year later, Isla continues to collect tabs, and has surpassed her initial goal 13 times over. She has spread the word about her tab drive by creating her own video for social media, and telling friends and family about her important initiative. Isla has also recruited the help of GymKyds Gymnastics Centre in Southdale, where she takes gymnastics classes, to host a tab collection bin.

As Isla's tab collection drive has gained momentum, she has received donations from all over Canada, and as far as Hawaii and Melbourne, Australia. On October 7, all tabs collected this year, including Isla's, were sold for scrap metal and the proceeds put towards a motorized wheelchair. Isla told me that the next recipient of a sp ecialized wheelchair, Catie, is a seven-year-old girl with blonde hair, just like her. Catie's wheelchair will be the 43rd purchased by Tabs for Wheelchairs, and the 26th funded entirely by tab collection.

Currently, Isla joins over 160 schools and 240 c ompanies and organizations in collecting tabs for Catie's wheelchair.

4030 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 Please join me in congratulating Isla for her charitable efforts in support of Tabs for Wheelchairs. Ms. Adams: I ask for leave to have the names of the educational support staff included into Hansard.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Mystery Lake School District edu cational support staff: Jamie Abele, Leonora Agustin, Anny, Maximillian Antoszewski, Anu Anuradha, Tammy Ault, Bala, Lisa Beaulieu, Gaylene Beck, Beverly Beherman, Terilynn Hepp Blackmore, Erma Blacksmith, Brock Bodnarchuk, Stuart Botehlo, Ginette Boudreau, Kenneth Boushie, Debbie Bowser, Rachel Brooks, McKenna Brown, Susan Brown, Pauline Bryar, Vera Burt, Rupindar Buttar, Terri Campbell, Jaime Carey, Treena Chaboyer, Rimpi Chawla, Orysya Chychula, Nora Clemons, Priscilla Cohan, Carey-Anne Crate, Jerry Dagondon, Alysha Daly, Kaitlyn Danyluk, Gilles Dauvin, Mary Dawson, Maria Del Calstillo, Lori- Ann Dettanikkeaze, Any Dhawan, Manu Dhawan, Stacy Edwards, Ann-Marga Ellsworth, Lejla Elouafi, Nanette Estabrooks, Brenda Fayant, Shelly Flores, Kelly Fragomeni, Lorna Frank, Holly Fudge, Renee Gallant, Shashi Ghai, Poonam Ghai, Trevor Giesbrecht, Erin Gosselin, Jeff Graham, Vanessa Greenfie ld, Paul Gulick, Jennifer Haas, Diane Hale, Inger Haukas, Kevin Henderson, Marie Highway, Jenna R.

Horvath, Jaime Howitt - Murdy, Carla Hykawy, Twila Hynes, Barry Jackson, Zhenduo Jiao, Shawna Johnson, Maninder Kambo, Kevin Kaspick, Julyda Katchmar, David Kostyk, Paige A.

Krentz, Erin Krokosz, Rachelle Ladyka, Sophia Laframboise, Delvene Langan, Kelly Larsen, Esther Latchman, Amber Linklater, Reese Little, Tammy Lucas, Janaina Lucas Pereira, Joanne Lumberio, Therese Lynds, Ann MacDonald, Joseph MacDonald, Poonam Malhotra, Meljorie Marcelino, Larry Markus, Sandy Marofke, Jasvir Masaun, Garry Matienzo, Shannah- Marie McDonald, David McDonald, Stacy McDuff, Rose McKay, Myrna McLellan, Dominic McLeod, Maria McMurdo, Dayle Medwid-Bercier, Sevdije Mehmeti, Melissa Is abelle Melstead, Lori Meuse, Anna Mielczarek, Sheryl Miranda, Marie Miscavitch, Shirley Miscavish, Bill Moniuk, Robert Moniuk, Lisa Monteith, Brittany Moody, Stella M.

Moose, Charmaine Morris, Kennedy Murray, Yvonne Nault, Anna Nelson, Valerie Neufeld, Tannis Nychuk, Melissa O'Handley, Ahmed Omer, Nadia Panciw, Daksha Pandya, Todd Paris, Tracy Park, Ethel Pascual, Daksha Patel, Dipesh Patel, Maulik Patel, Rajeshkumar Patel, Ronald Perepeluk, Kenesia Peterkin, Lorraine Peters, Connie Plamondon, Laurie Preston, Louise Pronteau, Gail Randall, Christine Randell, Lisa Reddy, Lydia Remic, Christina Reuther, Michelle Richcoon, Darlene Roberts, Sheri Ryan, Kelly Salamandyk, Nisha K.

Saroya, Tiffany Sauve, Giltene Shabani, Leonora Shabani, Alison Shatford, Brenda Sheppard, Sharon Sheppard, Renae Sinclair Spence, Abbey M. Smith, Wendy S. Smith, Iyabo O. Soile, Jennifer Spates, Robyn G. Spates, Diane Spence, Rachel Spence, Kiana Sterzuk -Corbett, Rick Svenkeson, Agnes Szabo, Samita Thapar, Kathryn Thera, H. Joy Thompson, Sandy Thompson, George Thorne, Evangeline Timbang, Alexandra Timmons, Karen Tindall, Tania Tolstosheieva, Tracy Tomchuk, Brenda Turk, Edmund Umacam, Bukurije Vlahna, Dadhich Vyas, Aaron Watt, Gianna Woods, Miranda Wright, Susan Young, Eva Yurkiw, Xuying S ummer Zhang, Min Zhao.

Retired and former educa tional support staff: Mohammed Ali, Maninder Bajwa, Moreen Cox, Laura Duschene, James Fenton, Vicky Fudge, Gloria Jacobs, Devin Millwood, Domanick Pennell, Shirley Sims. Cystic Fibrosis Drug Approval Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Today, the government of Manitoba and this Premier (Mr. Goertzen) have the opportunity to save lives. About one in every 3,600 children born in Canada has cystic fibrosis, a rare genetic disease that causes thick mucus to build up in the lungs, digestive tract and other parts of the body.

It is the most common fatal genetic disease affecting Canadian children and young adults. Those diagnosed with the illness have a life expectancy, sadly, of about 46 years. While there is no cur e for cystic fibrosis, the ap - proval of the drug TRIKAFTA by Health Canada this past June marks a turning point for sufferers of CF. According to Cystic Fibrosis Canada, TRIKAFTA is the single greatest innovation in cystic fibrosis history, and it has the power to transform the lives of thousands of Canadians.

Access to TRIKAFTA will mean longer and healthier lives for so many people and the ability to plan for a future that many feared they might not live to see. The list price of TRIKAFKA [phonetic] means that without our Province covering the costs, it is virtually inaccessible for most Manitobans. Thankfully, the pan- Canadian Pharmaceutical Alliance announced in September that they had reach- ed a funding agreement that greatly reduces the cost for TRIKAFKA [phonetic] for provinces. This means

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4031 that provinces now have everything they need to list the drug on provincial formularies. Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario have already done so. It is critical that TRIKAFTA gets listed on Manitoba's formulary immediately. For cystic fibrosis patients, every day counts, as this drug will not only significantly and immediately transform the quality of life, it will literally save lives. I call on this government to take action at once to include TRIKAFTA a nd all CF drugs as part of our formulary.

There are no more excuses for waiting– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Komagata Maru Park Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Over the last year, I have been working with a group of my constituents who reside in Waterford Green, through letters and conversations with the Minister of Municipal Relations (Mr. Johnson) and the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mrs. Cox). The matter pertains to the problems associated with the construction–or lack thereof–of a nearby out- door recreation area within Tyndall Park that is cur - rently working towards being officially named the Komagata Maru park.

Madam Speaker, it is important to explain the significance of the Komagata Maru park and under - stand why the naming of this park is so important. Back in 1914, the Komagata Maru ship was forcibly turned away from Canada, sending Sikh immigrants back to Calcutta. The naming of this park is one way to pave some positive steps forward towards healing. Madam Speaker, bringing it back to Tyndall Park, when this area first began being developed in 2016, the initial development plan implied, in the minds of many who have reached out to me, that prospective residents would have a space dedicated to outdoor recreation.

I am tabling a photo of what prospective home buyers were provided with. Unfortunately, once residents began moving in, they were surprised to discover that there were no plans for a park or outdoor recreation space whatsoever. Madam Speaker, the purpose of this statement: to gain awareness and to ask for support. My hope is that the City will do their

part in contributing to this conceptual park plan; however, I believe the Province can play a role too because of the cultural significance the park will hold. As soon as the Building Sustainable Communities program opens up for applications, the residents of Waterford Green will be applying and–in the hopes of receiving some support in the creation of a central place in the community to come together, reflect, play and converse. Thank you, Madam Speaker. ORAL QUESTIONS Surgical Backlog Plan to Address Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, over the past year, thousands of Manitobans have been diagnosed with life-threatening illnesses –illnesses like cancer. Sur - geries could save their lives, but they are waiting in vain and in pain for this government to act. * (13:50) This gov ernment has done absolutely nothing. They are refusing to invest in public health care that Manitobans des perately need during this pandemic, and that means that thousands of Manitobans who need life-saving surgeries just can't get them. Why has this government failed to address the surgical backlog? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Premier): The Leader of the Opposition knows full well that in this once -in- 100-year pandemic, every province is struggling when it comes to surgeries. But this government invested, in the budget that he's going to, I suppose, vote against on Thursday, ad- ditional funding for surgical backlogs. We, of course, committed an additional $50 million for that. We want to ensure that we're dealing with the backlog as best as possible while maintaining the health -care system for other needs, of course, that are happening during the pandemic.

If the member opposite truly cares about this issue, he'll demonstrate it on Thursday and support the funding that's allocated for it, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Well, the problem with Brian Pallister's PC government is that this government wants to hold the press conferences, claim the credit, but they want

4032 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 to–they don't want to take the action that would actually help Manitobans. So they may have announced a figure in their budget, but we've got a document here that says, of that $50 million that the interim PC leader –the amount that he just referred to, how much has been spent halfway through this year? Less than 2 and a half million, Madam Speaker. That's less than 5 per cent of what was supposed to be going to help the average Manitoban out there who needs a surgery to have their health-care needs met.

This PC government would rather cut money than spend it on life-saving health care. Why has this gov ernment refused to spend this money to help Manitobans, money they them selves promised? Mr. Goertzen: The member opposite will know, though I suppose he opposes it, that this government has been working with a number of providers, both inside government and outside of gov ernment, to ensure that we can deal with the backlog as best as possible. Now, every province in Canada is dealing with this challenge, of course. It's being dealt with as well in British Columbia –in NDP British Columbia.

Perhaps he's suggesting that his friend John Horgan is cutting surgical support in NDP British Columbia. I doubt it, Madam Speaker. I suspect that it has to do with the fact that it is a global pandemic and everybody is dealing with this challenge. We, of course, have the funding in place, we're dealing with partners and we're going to work to ensure that we deal with the backlog. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, you know, months ago, doctors urged the Brian Pallister gov ernment to take action to address the surgical backlog.

The only thing this government did was hold a press conference and claim that they would spend $50 million to help these folks waiting for surgeries in Manitoba. Here we are half a year later, what has happened? I'll table the docu ment that shows the First Minister that less than 5 per cent of the allocated funds have actually been spent. At this rate, that means it'll be less than 10 per cent by the end of the year. Tens of thousands of Manitobans in constit- uencies like Kirkfield Park and Riel are urgently waiting for surgeries. In constituencies like Steinbach, people are waiting for surgeries.

Why has this government insisted on breaking its promises to Manitobans who need these surgeries? Mr.

Goertzen: This is a government that has invested in every way to deal with the pandemic, of course, not only in vaccine dis tribution, to ensure that we had among the most robust vaccine dis tribution in the entire caucus, Madam Speaker, but also ensuring that we're dealing with surgeries that can be done in a safe and ap propriate way–of course, deter mined by clinicians–ensuring that we're trying to blunt the fourth wave by having public health orders that are not only in place when there's a challenge but even proactively. [interjection] I know why members opposite are trying to shout me down, Madam Speaker, because they are seeing what's happening in other provinces; they're not seeing that happen here.

I'm not saying that they're upset about that but, of course, when they're trying to find things that are negative, they're having a difficult time to find them in Manitoba at this time. Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Manitoba Public Insurance Diversion of Autopac Revenue Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): One of the other many negative things going on in the province right now is that when this Brian Pallister government interferes with Crown cor- porations, we know that it costs you money.

We know that that's what's happening with MPI– that this year the PCs' MPI board took $60 million away from drivers in this province. I will table th e minutes of the MPI board meeting from March for the interim PC leader. That's when the scheme was approved, but did this Brian Pallister gov ernment issue a press release? Did they make comments about it in the media? No. In fact, the PCs wouldn't say anything about it until last Friday in question period. So the question remains: When did this gov ern- ment find out about this scheme to take money from Autopac and to raise rates on Manitobans? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Premier): I was hoping that the long weekend might have allowed the opportunity for the Official Opposition Leader to crawl out of the grassy knoll, Madam Speaker, but it didn't happen. He's still there, thinking that there is a conspiracy, even though it was disclosed at Crown Cor porations

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4033 Committee–not to him, of course, it was disclosed. There was public vetting. There was a Public Utilities Board process. I was glad to hear today that Manitoba Public Insurance Cor poration is applying for a rebate, Madam Speaker, so that Manitobans can get more of the money that they put into the cor poration back. That is the good news that is happening in Manitoba, as much as he might try to turn it into bad news. The nattering nabob of negativity on that side can continue on, Madam Speaker, but there's lots of good news, and more coming, in Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: Just a caution to members to be careful with their language, and references to mem - bers should be according to their portfolios. So just a caution before we proceed. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Did Brian Pallister tell Manitobans that his inter ference at MPI was going to cost them millions of dollars? No.

Did Brian Pallister tell Manitobans that their MPI rates we re millions of dollars higher? 'Dis' the MPI application that the First Minister refers to tell Manitobans that their rebate cheques could be hundreds of dollars more had this interference not taken place? The answer is no, no, no and no. And will any o f these PC MLAs level with the people of Manitoba about this deception? The answer, again, is no, Madam Speaker. The PC government needs to be open and trans - parent. When did they first find out about this scheme to take money away from Autopac and to raise rates? Mr.

Goertzen: Never once, Madam Speaker, did any member of the NDP government ever tell Manitobans that it would cost billions of dollars more to run a hydro line on the wrong side of the province of Manitoba. In fact, it was actually th e opposite, Madam Speaker. They went out into a press conference and they said it would not cost an additional cent–not one penny more–to run a hydro line on the wrong side of the province, almost touching Saskatchewan. And, of course, it cost tens of bi llions of dollars more.

Manitobans will be paying for those tens of billions of dollars for many, many years–many, many gen era- tions. They spent more. We have a rebate coming. That's the difference between them and us, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: You know, there's so many PC cover-ups with our Crown cor porations the First Minister can't keep them straight. He's trying to talk about the billions in revenue they concealed at Manitoba Hydro. I'm trying to fight for cheaper Autopac rates for everybody in this province.

We know that they failed to disclose this to the people of Manitoba. We know that this was approved back in March, and we know that it's costing the people of Manitoba money. It could have been 10 per cent cheaper rates for people in this coming year. It could have meant hundreds of dollars more on rebate cheques. * (14:00) But the question that remains to be answered is this: When did the First Minis ter, when did the Cabinet first become aware of the scheme to take money from Autopac and raise rates in Manitoba? Mr.

Goertzen: I will grant to the member opposite he is much better at concealing things than I am, Madam Speaker. He has concealed many things in his life. But in this Legislature, Madam Speaker, there have been public debates. There have been public debates–hundreds of debates –regarding Bipole III, and never once did the NDP government disclose the true costs of Bipole III. There were years and years of debates and they hid it, they covered it up, they swept it under the rug. They didn't let anybody know what those true costs were. We did something a little bit different–or the Crown corporation and MPI did.

They decided to send something to the PUB after disclosing it in com mit- tee and putting it on Hansard, Madam Speaker. Manitobans can judge for themselves: years of cover- ing things up, or in committee, with Hansard, and the Public Utilities Board. I think our approach is the right approach, Madam Speaker. Newborns with Congenital Syphilis Prevention Initiatives Needed Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): The addictions crisis has taken a toll in Manitoba. Last year, we revealed the rates of blood -borne illnesses that are exploding here in our province.

4034 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 Defenceless babies are getting congenital syph - ilis. And yet, with proper prenatal care this could be prevented. And yet the problem here is getting worse. Through freedom of information, which I'll table, we found out that there were 36 babies here in our province that were born with syphilis –congenital syphilis–last year. What, if anything, is this minister doing to address that? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): I thank the member for –from Point Douglas for the question. Our gov ernment has done much to address that issue.

First we created the Ministry of Mental Health, Wellness, and Recovery, Madam Speaker. We put $52.3 million into 32 initiatives across the province. We also fund harm-reduction networks across the province that are doing great work to address this issue. Madam Speaker, I would be pleased to brief the member on the work that is being done regarding syphilis and blood-borne diseases. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Smith: I just asked a question about syphilis.

The member could've told us here in the House, and told Manitobans that are watching, exactly what they are doing about this crisis that is happening here in our province. But instead, does she choose to do that? No. So I'm going to ask again, and I'm going to tell her a direct quote from an internal document from the Winnipeg Regional Health Author ity: There should be zero cases of congenital syphil is here in this pro - vince. And is this minister doing anything about it? No. So through the FIPPA that I tabled, things are getting worse in this province.

In fact, half the amount of syphilis rates across Canada were here in Manitoba–in our province. This is preventable. These are babies. This minister needs to do some thing and she needs to tell us exactly what she is doing to stop this public health crisis from happening– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Ms.

Gordon: Madam Speaker, I'd like to share with the member that our De partment of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery has been going across the entire province talking to health -care pro fessionals, talking to individuals with lived experiences–parents, families–about the issues t hat relate specific ally to such conditions as syphilis. We're taking that infor mation back. We are acting. The member is willing to come into the House and share pieces of paper. We're doing more than that.

We're reaching into families, Madam Speak er, and we're addressing these issues right at the front end with our health-care professionals. We will not stop. We will continue to meet the needs of Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: While this minister goes around and does her listening tour that never gets listened to by Manitobans, because they don't put it in place, 21 babies have already been born since July in this province with congenital syphilis while this minister goes around and has a listening tour.

What is she doing right now to address this here in Manitoba so babies aren't born with congenital syphilis? This is preventable. So the minister can stand up right now, tell this House, tell those that are listening, tell Manitobans exactly what she is doing to prevent babies from being with–being born with congenital syphilis. Ms. Gordon: Madam Speaker, we want to be sure that every child that is born in this province is born healthy and has an opportunity to live a fulfilling life. And when they are born with condi tions such as syphilis, we are working with health professionals at the front end.

We are listening to clinicians. They diagnose. They tell us the best treatment, and we respond with funding and supports within the commu- nity. That is what we're doing, Madam Speaker. And we will continue to do that. Municipal Development Approvals Request to Repeal Bill 37 Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, five bills and the heart of the Conservati ve legis lative agenda were stopped dead in their tracks by this NDP opposition, but Kam Blight, who's the president of the AMM, reminds us that this reprieve is not the clean slate that the remaining PCs want Manitobans to believe.

Just this past spri ng, Brian Pallister and his Conservatives jammed through dozens of unpopular bills, including Bill 37.

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4035 And as the AMM has reminded us, Bill 37 brings the real risk that timely decision-making will grind to a halt at the local level. Will the minister listen to our municipal partners and repeal Bill 37? Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Municipal Relations): I'm always pleased to take questions on Bill 37. It gives me an opportunity to dispel the ridic- ulous allegations that the opposi tion continue to put on the record.

So, with respect to the Munici pal Board, I just want to point out that the NDP had racked up a nine - year backlog for unscheduled Munici pal Board ap - peals. I'm pleased today to announce that earlier this year, the backlog is gone. Gone, Madam Speaker. So, we inherited a nine-year backlog, now all un- scheduled appeals are from the 2021 calendar year. Not going to stand here and call them howling 'coytes'. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. The honourable member for C oncordia, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Wiebe: What the minister calls ridiculous are the voices of dozens of mayors, reeves, councillors, con- cerned citizens and even developers from across this province who have called Bill 37 regressive. They told us that it will create an onerous appeals process that's less responsive to its citizens. And yet, it's more difficult for development. Less accountable, and yet at a higher cost. Yet this PC caucus and both leadership candidates seem to be pushing full steam ahead on this unpopular bill. Will the minister stop to listen to those municipal partners across the province and repeal Bill 37 today? Mr.

Johnson: Madam Speaker, I don't know how the members opposite handled appeals historically, but maybe they used carrier pigeons. With the NDP's view on modernization, I'm surprised we still don't have hitching posts out front of this very building. Our government is about openness, transparency, efficiency, accountability, and these all build trust with municipal officials. These members opposite know nothing of this. I suggest the member opposite unhitch his horse from the N-D-T–NDP hitching post out front and ride off into the sunset. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary.

Mr. Wiebe: I am surprised that this minister would refer to the words of Kam Blight and the AMM this way, that he would disregard their concerns, and that he wouldn't listen to how other juris dictions have limited frivolous appeals while preserving their local voices. Bill 37 does not do that. It opens the door to un- necessary appeals and a process that threatens more, not less, red tape. Manitobans have raised a united front in opposi tion to this, and yet Brian Pallister's approach to governing is apparently still alive and well in this Conservative caucus.

Will the minister continue this bull -headed ap - proach, or will he listen to the people of Manitoba and repeal Bill 37? * (14:10) Mr. Johnson: Yes, in regards to appeals, I want t o thank the chair, Jeff Bereza, and his team on the entire Municipal Board for their hard work over the past couple of years. They have released the NDP carrier pigeons back to their natural habitat. They have removed the NDP hitching posts from out front of the building, put the horses out to pasture and brought unscheduled Municipal Board appeals out of the past and into 2021, Madam Speaker.

Youth Aging Out of CFS Care Extension of Age Limit to 25 Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): Despite the fact that Manitoba has a moratorium on youth aging out of care for the pandemic, we know that this isn't simply a pandemic-related issue and that ongoing supports are necessary for many youth transitioning out of the child-welfare system. Normally in Manitoba, youth aging out of care are required to live on their own when they turn 18, or 21 at the latest. They are often left without supports, leaving many youth vul nerable to un employment or homelessness.

Will the minister acknowledge the need f or on- going supports for youth aging out of care and commit to extending the age limit to 25 permanently? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): Our government is committed to reducing the number of children in care, and that is why we've made sig nifi- cant investments in helping those youth who are either

4036 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 transitioning out of care or keeping families together in the first place. We've invested significantly in projects like the Mothering Project or the Indigenous Doula project to help famil ies stay together and continue with reunification through initiatives like the Supported Guardianship Program. During the pandemic, we recognized that youth in care are facing extra pressures and circumstances, and that is why we've extended benefits to youth who are in care so that no child needs to age out of care during this difficult time.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas-Kameesak, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lathlin: Melanie Doucet, the project manager of the Equitable Standards for Transitions to Adulthood for Youth in Care report says that provinces should implement a readiness-based approach rather than an age-based approach. This would ensure that youth who have greater needs than others for longer periods of time are set up to succeed as they transition out of the child-welfare system. Will the minister commit to extending supports for youth aging out of care by increasing the age limit to 25? Ms.

Squires: I was very pleased just a few weeks ago to go visit a commu nity organi zation that supports youth in our province, parti cularly youth who are aging out of care, called RaY. And they had informed me of some of the initiatives that have been working for youth that have been aging out of care and some areas that need greater support, including housing supports. And that is why we're very eager and keen to work with housing partners to ensure that there are housing solutions for youth who are aging out of care as one aspect of the component when we're helping children and youth age out of care.

But, ultimately, Madam Speaker, our goal is to work with all families to support reunification and to support children staying with their families in the first place. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas-Kameesak, on a final supplementary. Ms. Lathlin: Extending the age limit to 25 would be a good step in ensuring that youth aging out of care are able to access needed supports on a ongoing and reliable basis.

This would help youth to easily address, overcome the barriers they face, such as finding safe and affordable housing, completing their education, managing a budget and creating meaningful con- nections within their commu nities–at least have a chance in life. I ask again: Will the minister commit to extending supports for youth aging out of care by increasing the age limit to 25? Ekosi. Ms. Squires: Our government is committed to help - ing youth age out of care. That is why we invested $1 million in a new com munity helper program as another initiative.

That is why we're working with a lot of com munity partners to help youth who are transitioning out of care. But the goal, 'manan', in–Madam Speaker, in Manitoba is to prevent youth from coming into care in the first place. That is why we have i nvested sig - nificantly in a doula program. That is why we're working towards keeping families together, and that is why we ended the practice of issuing birth alerts. And I can inform the House that, compared to the NDP's birth rate apprehension of 283 in 2014-15, we, this year, have reduced that number to 22, down from 283 in 2015.

We know that there still needs to be a lot of pro- gress to be made in keeping families together and providing those supports for families. But we've made a good first start. Vital Statistics Branch Request to Fill Vacancies Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): Our civil service is essential to ensuring that Manitobans have timely access to important public services, such as getting a birth certificate or a marriage certificate. However, under this PC gov ernment, public services such as Vital Stats continue to have vacancies sitting unfilled despite backlogs and long wait times.

The backlog and delays within Vital Stats were already an issue before the pandemic began, and now , because of Brian Pallister's cuts, they've been made even worse. Will this minister commit to addressing the staff shortage at Vital Stats imme diately as Manitobans have been waiting months to access im portant records? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): We acknowledge that the wait times are far too long, and that's why we have a strong plan to address this. In fact, it includes enhancing IT; it includes enhancing HR services.

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4037 It also includes making sure the backlogs that were in place, where there is over 24,000 backlogs, are cleared up. And, Madam Speaker, as of today, 99.9 per cent of those backlogs are cleared up. We've reduced the wait times by over 50 per cent in the last six months alone. Progress is making. We got to do more though. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a sup- plementary question. Mr.

Wasyliw: Within the de partment's own most recent annual report, it shows that Vital Stats issued 20,000 fewer requests than the year prior, despite the birth rate in Manitoba remaining the same. It's clear that the work being done within this branch has deteriorated in terms of timeliness, and the capacity of this branch simply can't keep up because of this mini- ster's refusal to fill vacancies. Will the minister commit to filling the vacan - cies in Vital Stats imme diately to ensure that all Manitobans are able to access im portant documents in a timely manner? Mr.

Fielding: I talked about our needs, our IT needs we've invested in, our HR needs we've invested in. I know the member doesn't like to talk about results, but on this side of the House we do actually talk about results. Over 99.9 per cent of the backlog that was in place just in August–just in August alone, Madam Speaker –24,000–over 24,800 backlog has been essentially cleared. Our department is doing great job to do that. We want to ensure that the wait times are reduced even more than the 50 per cent im provement that we've made over the last six months alone.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wasyliw: Let's talk about the minister's results. On Friday, in Estimates, he tells us that it takes two weeks to do one of these applications. Now, according to him, with his backlog, it's still taking three months for Manitobans to get these critical documents. There still exists a 32 per cent vacancy rate in Vital Stats. This gov ernment clearly hasn't taken this issue seriously, and Manitobans are the ones that are suf - fering. They can't apply for permanent residency.

They can't apply for certain federal gov ernment pro- grams because they can't get the documents they need to qualify. Will this minister commit to filling these vacan - cies today? Mr. Fielding: We know what yesterday's NDP was about. It wasn't about getting results, Madam Speaker. It was about –our gov ernment is all about getting results: 25,000-person backlog in terms of these im - portant stats have been 'exsentially' cleared up. There was actually over 43 that was left; 99.9 per cent of the backlog has been filled up. * (14:20) What we've done over the–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Fielding: –last six months is we improved the wait times by over 50 per cent, Madam Speaker, and that's not good enough. We're going to continue to work on that. But we made some good progress in the last six months. We're going to continue more if the NDP stop blocking initiatives that government do to make gov- ernment better off. An Honourable Member: Okay, doesn't make a lot of sense. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. What doesn't make a lot of sense is yelling across this Chamber at each other.

That does not make a lot of sense because that is not a good form of democracy for the public to see or to even know that it exists, because that is not a respectful behaviour to show that everybody here is working har d by asking the ques - tions and answering the questions. So I'm going to ask everybody, please, to stop the yelling back and forth. And I need to be able to hear the questions and answers that are being asked. So I would ask for your respectful behaviour, please. First Nations Children in Care Children's Special Allowance Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): In 2019, I condemned the federal gov ernment's decision to challenge a court ruling about payments to First Nations children in care. And it's worth noting that no matter what the federal government provided the First Nation children in care in Manitoba, all of it was

4038 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 seized by the gov ernment of Manitoba, as described in the op-ed written by chief Arlen–Grand Chief Arlen Dumas for The Globe and Mail, that I table. In opposition, the NDP and PCs alike have called this practice immoral and illegal, and the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs is in court right now, suing the gov- ernment to recover the $338 million in children's al - lowances that this government took. Why doesn't this gov ernment just drop the case and return the money to the children? Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): I'm pleased to hear that the Liberal contacted his counter- parts in Ottawa to stop their attack on Fir st Nations children and to ask the federal gov ernment to not continue taking them to court. I would also like to remind the members opposite that we had ended, in our first mandate, the egregious practice of taking money from children that was deemed for children in care from the federal gov ern- ment and we allowed the agencies to keep that money directly.

That was something that we did in our first term in office because we believe that these supports should remain with the children. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: Now, during the 2000 scoop engineered by the NDP Manitoba government, this Province was seizing more children from families than any jurisdic- tion in the world, over eleven–no–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –over 11,000, with the vast majority being Indigenous–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lamont: –already in neglect or –often the justi- fication for seizing children, yet with–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –social assist ance rates frozen since 1992, Manitoba was the child poverty of capital and is getting worse again under this government. The PC government could have made things right by returning that $338 million, but instead they voted themselves and everyone else respon sible immunity from getting sued. If this government is committed–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lamont: –to truth and reconciliation, justice and accountability–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –did they ever –why did they–are they still denying First Nations children their day in court? Ms. Squires: Our gov ernment recog nized that we needed to do transformation of our child- welfare system. That is why we bro ught in groundbreaking legislation in our first mandate that would reform child–the child-welfare system, including expanding the powers of the children's advocate and rebuilding the relationship with the advocate's office so that we could ensure that there's child protection.

That is why we also ended the egregious practice of taking money from the federal government deemed for children in the child-welfare system and allowing the agencies to keep that money. That is why we increased the funding under the single-envelope funding so that the agencies and auth- orities would have discretion on how to spend these much-needed dollars for our most vulnerable children in this province. National Day of Truth and Reconciliation Request for Support for Bill 240 Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): On August 12th, I wrote to the Minister of Indigenous Recon- ciliation and Northern Relations and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding), encouraging the gov ernment of Manitoba to join the federal gov ernment in recog- nizing September 30th as the National Day for Truth and Recon ciliation by declaring the day as a prov- incial statutory day. Last week, I followed this up through introducing legislation, Bill 240, requesting the same.

Madam Speaker, it is very im portant that Manitoba recognizes the national day specifically to fulfill call No. 80 of the Calls to Action in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Will the government support bill 40 and do every- thing it takes to pass it before the end of the year? Hon. Alan Lagimodiere (Minister of Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations): I respect the question from the member opposite.

We are currently engaging with Indigenous lead- ers throughout Manitoba on–seeking their input as to how we can properly recog nize this day moving forward, and that engagement has started a while ago.

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4039 We'll continue with that engagement and we'll follow their directions. Thank you. New Schools in Southwest Winnipeg Construction Announcement Mr. Scott Johnston (Assiniboia): Our gov ernment committed to building 20 new schools over 10 years. Yes, Madam Speaker, 20 new schools over 10 years. Can the Minister of Education tell us more about his important announcement this morning. Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Education): I thank the–my colleague for the question.

This morning, I was pleased to be joined by the MLA for Waverley, representatives from the Pembina Trails School Division and the City of Winnipeg for a groundbreaking event: an announcement for two new schools in Waverley West. A combined $67- million investment in school capital for a growing community will mean two new schools already under con- struction. This–are–these are numbers seven and eight of our 20 new sc hools guarantee, and I will say we are well on our way to delivering on time on that promise.

We are committing $260 million to school capital this year to ensure that we have spaces for students to succeed. Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Manitoba Public Service Reduction During Pandemic Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Brian Pallister cut front-line services, we thought, to the bone. Over the last five years, the public service has declined by 2,644 people. Those cuts left the Province po orly prepared for a public health emergency. The recent annual report shows that even during the pandemic they've continued to cut. I raised the matter with the media this summer.

The minister said, wasn't available. I ask him now: Why is he continuing to cut public services during a pandemic when we need them more than ever? Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Central Services): I'm very proud of our civil service during this pan - demic. It's been a trying time for all Manitobans and they have been over and above the board for how they've responded to the pandemic. I just can't say enough about how much work they've done on behalf of Manitobans. Thank you to the civil servants, they've done a great job for all Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: You know, empty words while they continue to cut positions within the civil service, while Manitobans continue to suffer because those services aren't available to them. You know, Brian Pallist er attacked public ser - vices. His Conservative caucus applauded him. Now he's gone, but it's the same story. Nothing's changed. Millions being spent on outside consultants and contracted services. Now the public–now they've continued to cut public services during the pandemic. We need front-line services now more than ever.

Why, even now, is this minister cutting important public services during a pandemic? Mr. Helwer: We continue to hire in the civil service and we recruit from all across Canada. But I have to say that we have a very robust training program in Manitoba and our civil servants are often targeted by other provinces to come and work for them. We just want to thank those civil servants for the great job that they have done for all Manitobans during this pandemic. I really can't say enough about the work that they've done making sure that we can keep Manitobans safe. * (14:30) Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara), on a petition? The honour- able member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine)? The honourable member for Elmwood. Louise Bridge Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

4040 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital link for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 110 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years, as it has deteriorated extensively, becoming functionally obsolete, subject to more frequent unplanned repairs and cannot be widened to accommodate future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg has studied where the new re placement bridge should be situated.

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the City's five-year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority in the City's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and budget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge, and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn street in anticipation of a 2015 start.

(6) In 2014, the new City adminis tration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds, and instead decided to fund an off -the-list, low -priority Waverley Underpass.

(7) The new Louise Bridge Com mittee began its campaign to demand a new bridge, and its surveys confirmed the residents wanted a new bridge beside the current bridge, with the old bridge kept open for local traffic.

(8) The provincial NDP–the NDP provincial gov- ernment signalled its firm commitment to partner with the City on replacing the Louise Bridge in its 2015 Throne Speech. Unfor tunately, prov incial infra - structure initiatives, such as the new Louise Bridge, came to a halt with the election of the Progressive Conservative government in 2016.

(9) More recently, the City tethered the Louise Bridge replacement issue to its new trans portation master plan and eastern corridor project. Its recom- mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise Bridge to be placed just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east, as originally proposed. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the prov incial gov ernment to financially assist the City of Winnipeg on building this three-lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown.

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic while the new bridge is under con- struction and consider the feasibility of keeping it open for active transportation in the future.

(3) To urge the prov incial government to finan - cially assist the City of Winnipeg in keeping the old bridge open for active transportation. And this petition has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Are there any further petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Could you please resolve into committee of–[interjection]–oh. Like to thank the clerks for pointing out my almost grievous error.

Could you seek leave to–could you canvass the House for leave to make the following permanent change to the Estimates sequence: in room 254, move Tax, Credits and Emergency Expenditures to the end of the list, following Municipal Relations? Madam Speaker: Is there leave to make the follow - ing permanent change to the Estimates sequence: in room 254, move Tax, Credits and Emergency Expenditures to the end of the list, following Munici- pal Relations? Is there leave? [Agreed] * * * Mr.

Goertzen: Now, unless I hear otherwise from my friends at the centre of the room, could you please resolve into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve into Com mittee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4041 COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 FINANCE * (14:50) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This sec- tion of the Committee of Supply will now resume con- sideration of the Estimates for the De partment of Finance. Consid eration of these Estimates left on resolution 7.5. At this point, we will allow virtual members to unmute their mics so they can respond to the question I will now call.

Resolution 7.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $23,230,000 for Finance, Compliance and Enforcement, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 7.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $23,000,607 for finance, consumer protec tion–[interjection]–oh, sorry–$23,607,000 for Finance, Consumer Protection and Busi ness Services, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 7.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Ma jesty a sum not exceeding $9,046,000 for Finance, Treasury Board Secretariat, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 7.8: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,222,000 for Finance, Priorities and Planning Com mittee of Cabinet Secretariat, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 7.9: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,591,000 for Finance, Intergovernmental Affairs, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022.

Resolution agreed to. Resolution 7.10: RESOLVED that there be grant- ed to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $125,000 for Finance, Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for these Estimates is item 7.1(a), the minister's salary, contained in reso- lution seven point–or, sorry–item 1(a), the minister's salary, contained in resolution 7.1. Shall the reso lution pass? [inte rjection] Oh, sorry. The floor is now open for questions. Seeing no questions, shall the resolution pass? Some Honourable Members: Pass. [interjection] Mr.

Chairperson: Okay. I'll have to read this. Resolution 7.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $7,154,000 for Finance, Adminis tration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022. Resolution agreed to. This completes the Estimates for the Department of Finance. HEALTH AND SENIORS CARE Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): The next depart- ment to be in this commit tee is the Depart ment of Health and Seniors Care. Does the minister need a couple minutes? Do we need to recess for a couple minutes before the minister is ready, or is the minister ready to go? Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): We're ready to begin, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairperson: This

section of the Com mittee of Supply will now resume consid eration of the Estimates for the department of health and seniors. As previously agreed, questioning for this depart- ment will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): I'd like to start by asking the minister if she can provide an exact number in regards to how many health-care workers– and that would be nurses, health-care aides, et cetera– are currently vaccinated. And if the minister doesn't have that number immediately available to her, would she be willing to take it as an undertaking?

4042 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 Thank you. Ms. Gordon: I would like to ask the hon ourable member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for some clarity on the question posed. So, for some definition as to the member's –what the member means by health-care worker. How does the member define health-care worker? * (15:00) MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for requesting that clarity. I would–actually, I think I gave a few examples, so, nurses, doctors, health- care aides.

And I would actually–I would open that up, and I would say that, you know, health- care workers, we know –and the minister, I know, would likely agree with this –that health-care workers, you know, the responsibilities to make our health -care system function well falls be - yond just that of nurses and doctors and health- care aides. So I would actually ask if the minister could provide the information in terms of who is vaccinated amongst health-care workers for as many health-care staff as possible.

So, I know that the department actually does out- line who falls into the category of health-care workers, and so I would ask that whoever it is that they are identifying as such and who they are tracking in terms of who was vaccinated, they could provide those details. That would be great. And, again, if the minister has those readily available right now and can provide that, that would be wonderful. Ms. Gordon: I thank the honour able member for Union Station f or clarifying. That infor mation is not readily available. I will take it un der advisement and provide that information at another date.

MLA Asagwara: Thank you, Minister, for agreeing to that undertaking. I would ask: Can the minister provide some clarity around which health- care workers are report - ing or being asked to report–or however that informa- tion is being tracked–but can the minister provide clarity around which health- care workers are provi - ding infor mation in regards to vac cination status, whether that's they have had a first and/or second doses, that would be wonderful. Thank you. Ms. Gordon: I thank the honour able member for Union Station for that question.

Again, that infor ma- tion is not readily available at my fingertips. I will take that under advisement and come back to them with a response. MLA Asagwara: Can the minister verify that health- care workers–that, in fact, the depart ment is tracking how many health -care workers are vaccinated? And can she provide clarity as to when that tracking started? Ms. Gordon: I thank the honour able member for Union Station for the question. This information is currently being tracked, and it's being tracked by each employer and it is specific- ally for direct-care workers. This activity began in September.

I do not have the exact date because each emp loyer may have started one or two days–or possibly a week–after the other. And when the public -health order was signed and released employers began tracking this infor ma- tion, noting that the deadline date is October 18th for direct-care workers to identify whether they have been fully vaccinated. This is being done on a voluntary response basis. Some managers are talking directly with their staff that report to them in a manual process. Some are using a IT tool, a computerized tool.

But that informa- tion is being captured by the employer and not in the department. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. And so are–can the minister–although she's kind of already done so, the minister has articulated, to some degree, the ways in which t his information is being gathered, but can the minister explain whether or not the expectation in regards to who is provi ding that information at each site is consistent?

So, did the minister provide, the de partment provide–criteria, I guess, is the language I'm looking for–criteria for each workplace to adhere to in order to facilitate consistency? Or what are the–what specific- ally was disseminated to these sites in order to ac - cumulate that information? Again, she's kind of indicated that some managers or sites are pursuing that information in ways that they identify makes sense. But was there some sort of a template provided, an expect ation delivered, by the department for these sites?

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4043 Thank you. * (15:10) Ms. Gordon: I thank the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. I can report that there was considerable debate–as the member also worked in the health system, like myself, and there are so many positions and so many– such a variety of positions. So there was considerable debate around the definition of a direct -care worker.

But once we arrived at that definition and classified the health-care workers accordingly, Shared Health – Lanette Siragusa, who's a co-incident commander and chief nursing officer for Shared Health, took the lead in terms of developing the communications using the public health order around the timing of the vac cina- tions. So, the criteria was that direct health -care work- ers needed to have their first vaccina tion by September 7th to meet the October 18th deadline.

We also did this to ensure it coincided with the start of school, which was September 7, so that teachers and direct edu cational personnel were –also had at least one vaccination at the start of school. So, moving forward, if you wait the 28 days after the first vaccination, it takes us to October 18th, which is the deadline date. So that's the criteria that was being used, is ensuring that first dose is done on the 7th, second dose–and they're fully vaccinated–by the 18th. So that's the criteria. The template may have–when we talk about template, I think we're really talking about communi- cation materials.

So, Lanette has taken the lead in terms of developing com munication materials that would speak to the various categories of health -care workers, and that information has been developed and communicated across the entire health system. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that re - sponse. That certainly helps shed a bit of light on that process. I'm wondering if the minister can share what it was exactly that Lanette Siragusa came up with in terms of that criteria that was disseminated to health- care facilities? Ms. Gordon: I'm looking at the Shared Health website.

This is where the infor mation was dis - seminated, and it's quite a lengthy document. We'd be happy to photocopy the entire document and make it available.

But I'll just maybe go through some excerpts from the document where it starts with background, stating that a public hea lth order anticipated to be in effect October 2021 will require direct -care health -care workers across Manitoba's health system to be regularly tested for COVID -19 and to provide proof of a negative test in advance of a shift, or to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 and to provide proof of vaccination to their manager, designate–or designate.

And it says the order will take effect by the end of October 2021 with all direct-care workers required to comply with regular testing or proof of vaccination as of October 18th, 2021. And then it goes on to define direct -care worker and it states who would not be included. So, for example, common areas such as elevators, cafeterias, hallways, public washrooms. But would include wards, private patient-resident rooms, transport facil- ities and vehicles. It talks about testing, you know, just to allay some of the fears around, you know –a lot of people talk about the tearing up when they do the nasal swab.

So there's a lot of information talking about the principles of testing, the two types of tests, the testing process, with an attachment to a Zoom –Teams Power Point presentation. And then the infor mation on self-recording each time a direct -health-care worker completes a test. And testing frequency is explained. Videos on how to do the test. Edu cation for managers is there. Quite a lengthy document –even infection pre vention and control con siderations, physical space recom men- dations, and occupational and environmental safety and health, rapid t esting presumptive positive fact sheet.

So, quite a bit of information and, again, we'd be happy to print all of this infor mation and make it available to them and answer any ad ditional ques - tions. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. I look forward to receiving that undertaking. I think that will be very insightful. I'd like to ask now a question of –it is specific to some comments made last week by Dr. Alecs Chochinov, and I'm sure the minister is well aware of the doctor's com ments that were made in the media last week. They were sig nificant. They were sig nifi- cant comments made. * (15:20)

4044 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 Dr. Alecs Chochnikov [phonetic] –Chochinov–I apologize for mispronouncing that; I know how im - portant it is to pronounce names correc tly, so I apologize–stated that there was a profound failure of leadership–that's a direct quote–in addressing ER wait times. And while we all know that Dr.

Chochinov was a proponent of consolidation, one of the things that he made very clear –explicitly clear, in fact –is that the Conservative gov ernment needed to tread slow –to tread slow–and to make sure that they were building capacity in our health-care system, in facilities, before closing facilities. We all know that that is not what happened. We all know that, unfortunately, the Conservative govern- ment pushed forward, pushed ahead, did not make sure there was adequate capacity in our health -care system, in facilities, and as a result–a direct result of that–we have seen chaos in our health -care system.

And we've seen an incredible amount of burden on our health-care staff in our emergency rooms. So I'm wondering: Given how signi ficant the comments that were made last week were, how clear Dr. Chochinov is in regards to saying that it is a pro - found failure of leadership that this government failed to address the areas that he indicated need to be–and many folks did ahead of time –can the minister share what her perspective is, what her thoughts are on the comments made last week? Ms. Gordon : I thank the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question.

It gives me an op portunity to just extend my personal thanks to Dr. Chochinov for his report. Sitting in this chair as the new Minister of Health and Seniors Care, I haven't had the oppor tunity to extend my ap precia- tion to him. Dr. Chochinov is someone I have had the privi - lege of knowing when I worked–I'm working with–in the WRHA. Highly respected and regarded. So, since his wait times task force report, in 2017, I just want to–in terms of the member's question about my thoughts, is that –I know that shortly after re - ceiving Dr.

Chochinov's report we added 1,000 addi- tional hip and knee procedures as well as 2,000 addi- tional cataract procedures to help reduce wait times. And that's coming right out of Dr. Chochinov's report. And then in 2019 our gov ernment committed $90 million to a redeveloped emergency de partment at St. Boniface Hospital, and if you've driven by or been in the St. Boniface area, constru ction is under way. But before that commitment, Dr. Chochinov was heading up in the emergency. He was lead for an emergency physician's table, and his report had asked for some capital invest ments to be made in to St.

Boniface Hospital emerg., realizin g that that would assist with patient flow and wait times. And that work had already started before our gov ernment made the $90-million commitment. In 2020, as well, a $10- million fund was esta - blished for priority procedures and, sadly, just when we were started to see some of the–for lack of a better phrase–fruits of our labour or the pay -off of those investments–the day after we committed the $10 million, the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a global pandemic. But even while that was happening, Mr.

Chair, in Budget 2021 our gov ernment has committed $812 million for Manitoba's clinical and preventative services plan for rural and northern Manitoba. So this is going to impact the system greatly, not just on a clinical level, but ambulance services in rural and northern Manitoba will be able to address some of the EMS shortages and wait times there. We continue to contract with service providers like Manitoba CancerCare, Western Surgery to safely provide addi tional surgical services that would not impact COVID care and our wait times.

So if I think back to–I've always had a passion for health, even when I wasn't working in health care, and I monitored very closely the decisions that were being made by governments–that I recall that in 2015, emer- gency de partment wait times in Manitoba were the worst in Canada, and that was without the added pressures of a global pandemic. * (15:30) So the data that we were starting to see just before the pandemic was declared was show ing some early results of the transformation that was happening in the system.

This was before the pandemic, and, you know, some of our median wait times in the WRHA were starting to show a reduction. So, staffing shortages have really impacted wait times, the pandemic being the biggest contributor of our wait times. So Dr. Chochinov's report was sub - mitted to government at a different time and in a dif - ferent space, and while we ap preciate and recog nize the good work in that report, we are dealing w ith a much different situation with our pandemic.

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4045 We will certainly be getting back to all the recom- mendations that we've received in reports, not just– Mr. Chairperson: The minister's time has expired. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. I think it's really important for all of us to be very clear about the fact that these challenges in the emer- gency room maybe were exacerbated by the pan - demic, but certainly they predate the pandemic in terms of the fact that health -care worker s' morale being very low was reported before the pandemic.

Shortages in emergency rooms in terms of staffing were occurring before the pandemic and were a direct result of this gov ernment rushing ahead to cut and close aspects of our health -care system against the advice of the very people the minister is saying now they–that they'll listen to in terms of imple menting their advice and their expertise.

And the minister knows –and she wasn't the Minister of Health at the time, and I recog nize that– but th e minister, being someone who does follow health care, is well aware of the fact that health -care workers took the extreme step before the pandemic of going to the media and making their concerns heard that they were in crisis, in chaos in our emergency rooms, that in fact they were without the resources and the needed investment by this government in order to make sure that the care they were providing was sus- tainable.

And, unfortunately, what we've seen during this pandemic is the continued failur e of the gov ernment to adequately invest, to listen to front-line health-care workers and providers and to take the steps that they are identifying as necessary in order to mitigate the harms that are happening right now.

I think it's im portant for t he minister to, you know, reflect on more recent history in terms of these record-high wait times we're seeing in emergency rooms in July and August, including the fact that one out of every four patients that arrived to the emer - gency room just last month–or, the month prior – sorry–alone left the emergency room without being seen. We know that under this gov ernment folks are presenting to emergency rooms sicker and more fre - quently than they were beforehand.

So I think it's really important for the minister to not deflect but instead to reflect very earnestly on the comments made in the media by Dr. Chochinov and to take them very seriously, or else, you know, a failure to do that would indicate that there is an ongoing failure to adequately plan and to respond appropriately to address these concerns. And, cer - tainly, none of us want to see that ongoing failure perpetuated. We want to see this Minister of Health rise up to this occasion, where her predecessors chose not to do so, for the betterment of he alth care for all Manitobans.

Now, I'm wondering if the minister can talk a bit about the fact that, you know, on the wait times task force, which Dr. Chochinov was co- chair of, he did indicate that remaining facilities needed to be very significantly upgraded before closing facilities. That includes addressing staffing. The minister talks about, you know, work that's been done, money that's been invested, but the mini - ster fails to identify the fact that we're in a staffing crisis in our health-care system, in emergency rooms, and that that has never been meaningfully addressed under this government.

So I'm wondering if the minister, from her per - spective, if she can share why that very im portant advice by the wait times task force was ignored by this government and what she intends to do in her capacity as Minister for Health to right those wrongs and to rectify those mistakes? Ms. Gordon: I thank honourable member for Union Station for the question, and I agree with the member that there have been challenges over time with–in the health system. And some of the challenges they refer to have been long- standing issues back to the time when the NDP were in power, and after receiving Dr.

Chochinov's report, the wait times reduction task force report, which was released in 2017, we did, as a government, recognize that it was a driving factor that would–that led to the launch of the dev elopment and subsequent release in 2019 of Manitoba's clinical and preventative services plan. I want to assu re the member that quite detailed and lengthy discussions were held with a lot of front- line health-care providers.

They were consulted, and I've heard since taking my seat as Minister of Health that it's the first time that health-care providers felt so heavily engaged in the development of a plan. * (15:40) So, again, Dr. Chochinov was part of a process, along with rural medical colleagues, that contributed knowledge and expertise by –he led an inter -profes- sional provincial team to develop an integrated plan aimed to improve overall health care in Manitoba, including in emergency depart ments. And some key

4046 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 performance indicators were developed and he is – some of his work has contri buted in significant ways to the clinical and preventative services plan.

Some of the things that are being done –although we are in the midst of a pandemic–to make it easier for individuals to access care, have been –this is just some of the things that have been put in place, such as online assessments that help a patient deter mine whether they should be tested for COVID; virtual con- sultations with physicians, allowing patients to access care without leaving their home; the dev elopment of dedicated stroke protocols across the province and the establishment of TeleStroke, which allows clinicians in remote and rural areas to more quickly consult with neurologists to diagnose and treat stroke patients, and in 2020 about 350 patients were seen and assessed in this way across the province.

I look forward to the 2021 results which should be stronger than the 2020.

We strengthened clinical supports for ERS, in- cluded stan dardized clinical protocols, enhanced medical control to provide additional clinical support to paramedics in the field and a more co -ordinated response for inter- facility transfers, and we esta - blished various outpatient settings to support the COVID response, including testing sites, isolation centres, and the virtual COVID outpatient program, which allows medically appropriate patients recover- ing from COVID to be cared for virtually from home, instead of in a medicine unit.

And I look back to 2018, as well, when our gov - ernment invested $5 million into emergency de part- ment expansion project, and it was expected to consist of a number of phases, beginning with the demolition of the ambulatory care space beside the St. Boniface Hospital, and–which led to the work that I mention that was done before the $90 million. Then the Grace emergency depart ment dev elopment. My son, actu- ally, worked on that project. So these are some of the things that we have put in place since receiving the report, and we'll continue to move forward under our clinical pre ventative services plan.

MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. Again, I would say it's interesting. It's one thing to tout expansions and emergency rooms and that work done; it's another thing to be reflective and honest about a failure to adequately prepare those very spaces to function adequately once they're up and running. And, unfortunately, the minister just mentioned the Grace Hospital.

I mean, we've all heard and seen very clearly, as those staff have courageously brought forward their experiences and concerns, just how much they're struggling over at that eme rgency department and acute care and critical care in Grace Hospital–incredibly under -resourced, incred - ibly understaffed.

The crisis is across the system in emergency rooms, but certainly the folks over at the Grace have been very clear about the f act that they are–they're really unable to keep their heads above water in that de partment, and I would sincerely encourage the minister to, you know, engage with those front -line providers who are struggling, who have made very clear what needs to be do ne or to address those concerns and who will, quite frankly, and I've said this before, you know, previous ministers have not listened to and therefore the adequate deci - sions that needed to be made were not.

And so the minister has an oppor tunity now to rectify those wrongs, to address those failures in our health-care system, listen to those health -care pro - viders and do better for Manitobans in our health-care system who are accessing, oftentimes, health care in their worst and scariest moments. I'd like to move on to some thing that our leader, the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew), raised today in question period that is deeply concerning and very troubling.

Given the fact that this an nouncement has been made several times in regards to the su rgical backlog and we know other provinces have addressed their backlogs–we know that British Columbia is an example of a province that aggressively tackled their surgical backlog and addressed it hugely in that juris- diction. Many ways Manitoba could do the same thing here, yet that hasn't happened. But we did hear, on multiple occasions, the an- nouncement of $50 million being set aside in the budget to address the surgical backlog.

And yet we know now that Manitoba has not only failed–this gov- ernment has failed to address the surgical backlog but their very own announcement of $50 million to do so has barely been tapped into at all –that a meagre $2.46 million of that $50 million has been spent. Can the minister explain to us why that is? Ms. Gordon: Our government want to assure the hon- ourable member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) that our gov ernment takes this very, very seriously.

After completed pre parations for our fourth -wave activities, there's no higher priority for me, as the Minister of Health and Seniors Care, than addressing

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4047 the surgical and diagnostic backlog and that work has begun. I was pleased to have a very good discussion with Doctors Manitoba a couple of weeks ago talking about the work that the com mittee will be tasked to com - plete. And I also want to state that all juris dictions–I have family members in Ontario, family members in Alberta and in Vancouver that are sharing with me the surgical slowdowns in those juris dictions as a result of COVID.

So the problem is not unique to Manitoba, but we certainly don't want to minimize the impact that it's having on individuals here in our province. * (15:50) And the member is correct that our gov ernment committed $50 million to address the surgical and diagnostic backlog in Budget 2021, and we do hope that their government will join us in unanimously sup- porting our budget when it's voted on.

And so we have contracted with organi zations and partners to perform over 11,000 ad ditional pro- cedures to begin to address the backlog caused by COVID-19, and it includes: Pan Am –hand pro- cedures, foot procedures; Western Surgery–cataracts, pediatric dental and plastics; CancerCare Manitoba– urology; Vision Group–cataracts; Maples –general surgery, ENT procedures.

I also w as pleased to hear that Pan Am, Misericordia and Victoria General Hospital all went back to their full slates at the end of wave three, Concordia went back to full slates at the end of September, and Grace returned to full slates as of today.

So I do recognize that there are hospitals that have not returned to their full slates, and we're certainly supportive of assisting those facilities to get back to a full slate, and that's why, as of October 4th, we've opened our fifth request for supply arrangement for surgical services to address the backlog of procedures due to COVID -19, and we're accepting proposals to address the backlog. And the last two proposals, 2021, $4.2 million, '21 -22, $8.1 million, that allowed for 8,300 procedures to be contracted.

So now we've gone forward with a request for proposals in endoscopy, cataracts, pediatric general surgery, dental and ENT, outpatient spine procedures, adult ENT and general surgery, and we hope to see this backlog reduced significantly. But I'm certainly heartened by the results that I'm seeing with the facilities that have returned to full slates and are servicing Manitobans that are in need of critical surgeries and diagnostics. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response.

And with all due r espect, I would ask the minister why anyone would think it's appro priate to hope that things return to any semblance of baseline before the pandemic. Hope is certainly not adequate; it is wholly inadequate in terms of addressing a sur - gical backlog and d iagnostic backlog that's –Doctors Manitoba reported was well over 100,000.

I guess, you know, my concern here is that the minister is not clearly articulating how it is possible, how could she even think it is conscionable, that $50 million that her government has repeatedly gone out and said to Manitobans is the money they're investing to imme diately address this backlog, that $2.46 million of that $50 million has been spent. Anybody can look at that and say some thing is very, very wrong here. And I would also say that returning to a full slate for these facilities, again, is inadequate.

We know that we are in a surgical backlog that is astronomical here in Manitoba, that simply returning to a full slate is not going to cut it. It's just not going to address the back- log in any sort of appro priate or adequate manner. And I'm sure the minister is well aware of that. And so, I would ask the minister, again: How is it possible that not even $3 million of the $50 million that her and her gov ernment have announced repeat- edly has been spent. How is that even possible?

And I would also ask for the minister, in addition to explaining how it's possible, why it is that only that amount of money has been spent out of that $50 million? If she could also update us in regards to how much money–how much out of that $50 million has been spent to today's date? Thank you. * (16:00) Ms. Gordon: I thank the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. I am informed by Shared Health that the number of surgeries that are delayed is more in line with 30,000 and–approximately 30,000.

And I do want to remind the member that Manitoba certainly ex perienced the third wave later than other provinces. So, if I recall, I remember in the summer our surgeries were shut down because of that third wave. And coming out of it we've taken

4048 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 proactive steps as a gov ernment to blunt the fourth wave. The delay of surgeries is definitely a capacity issue and we are working to increase capacity. I know that members opposite don't like when I talk about nursing shortages and explain that to staff an ICU bed 24-7 requires five EFTs and–not, it's not one person– and so capacity is an issue. Some individuals have been moved to other areas within the system.

And so as we blunt our fourth wave and keep our cases down and get our vac cinations up, we will be able to per - form these surgeries, get people the care that they need as quickly as possible. We're also working with sites outside of Winnipeg because we have to remember that there are locations outside of Winnipeg that can perform surgeries as well, so we are working with those locations. And, again, I, as the Minister of Health and Seniors Care, very –take very seriously getting these back–getting the backlog addressed; happy to be working with Doctors Manitoba.

Again, I had a really good discussion with them a couple of weeks ago about the committee that has been struck and some of the innovative solutions that will be coming forward. So, very happy to hear from them how we'll be working together. I'm committed to addressing the backlog, they are, everyone around the table is, and it's by working together that we reduce these numbers. Again, it's not unique to our province, but we do focus on the needs of our citizens and ensuring that they get the care that they need as quickly as possible. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response.

I appreciate that the minister has shared the ap - proximate number of surgeries that are currently delayed. I'm wondering if the minister can also share into specifics around diagnostics. We know, and it was reported today, actually, that there was a sig nifi- cant rationing of diagnos tic testing in Manitoba that includes tests for superbugs and for certain types of bacterial infections. I'm sure the minister is aware of that. But I'm wondering if the minister can provide some clear infor mation in regards to what specific diagnostic tests were rationed and for how long were those tests rationed. Thank you. Ms.

Gordon: I thank the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. I want to share with them that, throughout the pandemic, clinical leaders have looked at ways to in- crease capacity for surges in COVID -19 testing de- mands and patients requiring care. So, in the same way surgeries and some specialized services have been delayed, some microbiology testing was identi - fied by clinical leaders as a service that could safely be suspended or delayed on a temporary basis to help increase COVID testing capacity.

So the suspension of some microbiology testing, which includes some urine testing, was activated during waves two and three but is not currently in place. The temporary limitation of several types of simple lab tests represented less than 1 per cent of the testing offered in these labs, and this temporary change was made in con sultation with senior health - care providers, who can use other clinical indicators and tools in place of these tests without compromising patient care.

So should a health- care provider deter mine, for example, one of these tests is necessary for their patient, it was completed upon request. And health- care providers were advised to contact the appropriate clinical microbiology lab if individual patient cultures or testing was deemed necessary. So microbiologists, including the medical director of laboratory services for Shared Health, who is a microbiologist, responds to–was–is–was responding to these requests.

So, again, this was a temporary change made in consultation with senior health -care providers, who every day–every day, across our system –use clinical indicators and tools in place of some tests, depending on what they feel is best for their patients. And, again, these types of simple lab tests that were done re - presented less than 1 per cent of the testing offered in labs. So, temporary and less than 1 per cent. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

MLA Asagwara: Could the minister –she gave a couple of examples, but could the minister endeavour to provide a clear list of which diagnos tic tests were rationed and a clear indication as to how long? Would you–willing to take that as an under taking is my question. * (16:10) Ms. Gordon: Thank the honour able member for Union Station for the question. I'll–we will certainly

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4049 endeavour–I will certainly endeavour, to go back to Shared Health and ask about specific circum stances where they attempted to demonstrate lab tests that were not necessary or were being inappropriately ordered, and whether they looked at other types of tests that were appropriate for use and make that infor- mation available. MLA Asagwara: Thank you–thank the minister for that response and for agreeing to under take that and come back with that information. I'd like to ask specifically about Boundary Trails hospital.

It was announced last month that close to 10 beds had to close due to a shortage of workers there. Can the minister update as to whether or not those beds are still closed and if in fact there is a pl an to reopen? And I'm also wondering if the minister can share how the region–how that region is dealing with the critical shortage of nurses? Thank you. Ms. Gordon: Thank you to the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. We certainly want to support all our health-care facili- ties, not just now but in the months and years to come.

And I understand that Boundary Trails is –the beds are closed as of right now and they will be closed until October 13th. And in terms of how they're dealing with short - ages, I know that we have our overall provincial strategy, in terms of nursing shortages, that they will benefit from. But I want to share with the member that, in terms of funding for our personal-care homes, Budget 2021 invests over $653 million in PCHs, and that's more than the NDP gov ernment, back then, ever spent. In 2016-17, PCH funding is $644,129,000. In '21 -22, PCH funding: $653,873,000.

So, since we took office we've built 510 personal- care-home beds, and I was ple ased to be out in–for the Boyne Lodge opening ceremony, where we were adding more beds there. And the Premier (Mr. Goertzen) recently was making an an nounce- ment his–in his area of Steinbach as well. In June 2020, we announced a historic $280-million investment in safety upgrades to personal-care homes.

So, some of them had leaking roofs and furnaces that were prehistoric and falling apart, and it took our gov ernment coming in and cleaning up the mess made by the NDP gov ernment and saying to our s eniors and our vulnerable popula- tions that we're going to take care of the upgrades to the facilities that you reside in. And so in our first two years in gov ernment, we've built almost twice as many PCH beds in Winnipeg as the NDP did from 2010 to 2016. And we continue to invest, we continue to build, we continued to provide innovative housing.

When I was out at Boyne Lodge, they referred the new style of care as small houses, and I was so im - pressed to see that we're not just moving forward with traditional ways of seniors living together but new approaches that are– allow for more interaction be - tween residents and more shared meals and more communal living. It was very good to see. And so our gov ernment will continue to invest – and, again, in ' 21-22: $653,873,000. And we will be doing more to assist our seniors. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response.

I do find that interesting that oftentimes when members opposite will talk about beds they've created in long- term care or other such things, they will forget–they'll neglect to mention the–those efforts that were actually started under the NDP and the projects that were actually initiated and developed by the NDP. But that's an aside for the minister.

What I'd actually like some clarification on, if the minister–and the minister should have this infor ma- tion actually readily available–but if the minister can share what the global allocation –global funding al - location to the health regions is for this year and last year as well, and if the minister could please break that down by region. * (16:20) Ms. Gordon: I'm pleased to –[inaudible] regional health authority–[inaudible] billion, 188,301,000– Mr. Chairperson: I'm sorry, Minister, we lost your voice for a second. Could you st art all over again, please? Ms.

Gordon: The number for the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority– Mr. Chairperson: The honourable Minister of Health and Seniors Care, if you could start from the begin- ning, please.

4050 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 Ms. Gordon: I'd like to provide a response to the hon- ourable member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) with regard to the global allocation for RHAs. Can you hear me now? Okay. For the Winnipeg Regional Health Author ity: $2,188,301,000; Prairie Mountain Health: $578,933,600; Interlake -Eastern Regional Health Authority: $240,677,500; Northern Regional Health Authority: $230,095,800; Southern Health-Santé Sud: $441,791,300. That concludes the response. * (16:30) MLA Asagwara: Thank you, Minister, for that response and for providing that breakdown.

Can the minister provide the global allocation for CancerCare for this year and last year? And, sorry, just so that I'm clear: the minister did provide the allocation for each regional health author- ity, I believe for–I think she provided it for this year, but could the minister also provide the information for last year? I just want to be–I'd ask for this year and for last year per region, so I'm just wondering if the minister can provide for the year that she has not, and as well, if she could provide the global allocation for CancerCare for this year and for last year. Thank you very much. Mr.

Greg Nesbitt, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Ms. Gordon: I can respond with the number for CancerCare for '21 -22, and that number is $211,938,700. We are accessing–the department is accessing the number for 2020-2021, but before that information is provided, I want to make the member aware that the number for–that I provided for fiscal year 2021-2022 is Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery. Being a new department, all of that is pulled out from these numbers. So when the number for 2020- 2021 is pro- vided, it will show a different allocation because at that time the de partment was one.

So the number is going to be different, but we are seeking that informa- tion, Mr. Chair. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that re - sponse and for provi ding that extra bit of clarity around what we can expect there and what. I'd like to allow for my colleague, the member for Thompson, to as k a question of the minister at this time. Ms. Danielle Adams (Thompson): I'd like to thank my colleague from Union Station for providing me an opportunity to ask this very important question.

Is the minister aware me and my colleague from Flin Flon, on September 9th, sent the minister a letter regarding northern patient transport and our concerns with dialysis? Under the current policy, people are not–northerners are not eligible for northern patient transport when they have to reside in Winnipeg for upwards of a year while waiting for dialysis.

We have yet to receive a response from the minister, and we were wondering if the minister could please provide information regarding the status of the letter and if northerners will be eligible for nor thern patient transport when they are having to relocate to Winnipeg for upward of a year while waiting for a dialysis spot. Mr. Chairperson in the Chair * (16:40) Ms. Gordon: I'm pleased to provide a response in regard to the northern patient transport program. I want to be sure that everyone knows what this program is about.

It subsidizes medical transportation costs for eligible Manitoba residents north of the 51st parallel, east of Lake Winnipeg and 53rd parallel west of Lake Winnipeg when they have to obtain medical or hospital care not available in their home community, and it was transitioned to the regional health authorities in 1997 as part of the regionalization process.

The northern patient transport program was esta- blished under The Emergency Medical Response and Stretcher Transportation Act and it sets out that the minister may pay financial grants to RHAs charged with the administration of the northern patient trans - port program or make direct payments to such per - sons as the minister may determine. And in 2020, this program assisted nearly 20,000 individuals who need- ed to travel to access care and paid out $18 million approximately.

Now, I do hear from time to time–and I was up in Thompson a couple of weeks and travelled in the North, hearing from our health -care professionals on the Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery side of things. And I shared with them that our government's investment of $812 million in Budget 2021 will allow for the creation of a northern hub tha t will see a reduction in individuals having to travel for care.

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4051 So I–my office is in receipt of the letter and a very detailed response will be provided, but we will con - tinue to support individuals that need to travel away from their home to access care in Winnipeg. MLA Asagwara: I'd like to ask a question in regards to neurology. I'm sure the minister is aware –it's been made very public, especially more recently. My col - league, the MLA for –the member, rather, for Wolseley (Ms. Naylor) has also, I know, written letters, as has our leader, the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew) on this very subject.

But we all –are all aware about the issues and the problems that exist in neurology in Winnipeg. Last year, we know that many staff in neurology actually quit. They left their jobs entirely, and we know that at that time last year there was a vacancy rate of 36 per cent in neurology, which is just incred- ibly high. And now, unfortunately, we know–and this was–again, this was published in the news very recently–that Dr. Demitre Serterlis [phonetic] has also resigned, which is very disappointing. It's a big loss for us here in Manitoba.

You know, there're estimates that about 6,000 patients would be eligible for surgery –sur- geries that would help end seizures a ltogether if the program–if the proper program was up and running here in Winnipeg. And we also know that a substantially significant donation of $2 million was made in –just a few years ago, 2017, from Domino's Pizza Canada CEO Michael Schlater.

Now , this specific donation was made towards a special program for children with epilepsy, and it's reasonable –we've asked this ques - tion, actually, via a letter to the minister, but we know that other folks who have children waiting for these very important surgeries have also written. Can the minister please explain and provide an update as to what happened to that money? Where is the money that was donated by the CEO in order to establish a special program for children with epilepsy? Mr. Chairperson: Minister, we cannot hear you. Ms. Gordon: Mr.

Chair, if we could return to a pre - vious question from the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) regarding the global allocation to the RHAs and CancerCare for the year 2021, I now have that information available. The Winnipeg Regional Health Author ity: $2,152,667,000; Prairie Mountain Health: $555,680,900; Interlake -Eastern Regional Health Authority: $231,654,700; northern regional health authority: $222,095,000; Southern Health-Santé Sud: $383,204,300; CancerCare Manitoba: $186,768,700. * (16:50) And I will respond shortly to the question before us regarding the neurology program.

MLA Asagwara: Sorry, is the minister just looking up the information regarding neurology? Can–should I m ove on to another question, or –just so that I'm clear. Ms. Gordon: The information is being looked up, so the member can proceed to another question. MLA Asagwara: Thank you for provi ding that clarity. Can the minister please provide the current vacancy rate in neurology right now in Winnipeg? Completely fine if this is taken as an undertaking, as–along with that request that –what I would ask is that that be broken out with as much detail as possible.

So, what is the vacancy rate in neurology in Winnipeg right now? But if that could be broken out by sites, by number of neurologists, positions, number of vacan- cies and the vacancy rate. If that could be all broken down and included in that response, that'd be wonderful. Again, if the infor mation is available now, fantastic. If it needs to be taken as an under taking, that's perfectly fine as well. And I'm –and would be appreciated. Ms. Gordon: I do have a part of that answer available.

I will be taking the vacancy rate and the detailed infor- mation regarding vacancies by a site, et cetera, re- quested by the honourable member for Union Station under advisement and will make that available at a later date. I do have the information with regard to the neu- rology program, and I want to start by saying our gov- ernment remains committed to improving health care for all Manitobans, which includes long- term efforts to strengthen neurology services and care for patients with epilepsy. This includes a long- term plan to develop adult surgical program.

The neurology program, just to give you a flavour of what it encompasses, the components of a compre- hensive program is mightily expected to include pediatric and adult epilepsy monitoring space, equip- ment and staffing; support for epilepsy neurol ogists and neurosurgeons; support for epilepsy surgery

4052 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 12, 2021 equipment and operating room resources; robotized stereotactic assistant equipment for surgical cases and epilepsy-related education research. Shared Health has been working with my depart- ment to take an incremental approach to developing such a program. So, as the member correctly stated, our gov ernment, on May 10th, 2021, announced $4 million in capital funding to esta blish an adult epilepsy monitoring unit. This funding was for monitoring equipment, monitoring software and con- struction of a four-bed adult epilepsy monitoring unit.

So part of the construction–there's always stages to a project and planning, as most project 'maners' will tell you, the longest phase of a project is the planning. You plan well and you can execute well. And so, planning has been underway. The unit will be located at Health Sciences Centre, and I'm told it will take four to six months for the unit to be fully constructed and up and running.

So imminently, the actual –I guess, you'll hear hammers and construction occurring to actually begin to create the space, but part of constructing, part of any project, is planning, executing, monitoring and controlling for any risk and then, of course, closing the project. So four to six months for that to occur. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for agreeing to undertake to provide the information requested in my question. I'd like to, before we move on to my colleague, the member for Point Douglas (Mrs.

Smith), I'd like to ask one question pretty quickly about primary care here in Manitoba, you know, because it is so important that folks have access to a primary -care physician, primary-care provider, in order to have increased, you know, positive health outcomes. We know that the PC government has had a difficult time maintaining timely access to primary care, whether that be a physician or a nurse practitioner. The minister currently has a website, Family Doctor Finder, that shows how many people are searching for care and how many get it within 30 days.

And before the Conservative government took power, things were pretty consistent: 80 to 90 per cent of Manitobans were getting access to a primary -care provider within 30 days. And then the closures started, right? So we saw QuickCare clinics closed and shuttered. We saw primary -care facilities start to close. We saw, you know, some things like labs located in primary-care providers' facilities also close, which disrupts people's ability to access primary care and early intervention. This disruption is –ultimately, it's been pro- nounced, which is what I'm getting at.

In the last quarter, only 32.1 per cent of patients actually got timely access to a care provider within that 30 -day time period. So I'm wondering if the minister can provide for us what her plan is to address timely access to primary care. What steps is the minister taking to do so? * (17:00) Ms. Gordon: I thank the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. I'm not sure if the member is aware that the training program for primary-care physicians tries to use a distributed education model, where you're distributing individuals coming out of the program across the province.

I want to be sure as well that we al l understand what primary care refers to, and it's that early contact with the health -care system when patients and their families receive a diagnosis, treatment or help with a new health problem or chronic condition. Services can also include speaking w ith a health -care provider about staying healthy and preventing illness. So ongoing physician recruitment and retention efforts is a key priority of clinical services planning to be under taken by Shared Health.

So, where we are hearing of individuals that are seeking physicians, Shared Health is very much involved in an aggressive and innovative recruitment process, and the work of Shared Health will support consistent and reliable health-care services, effective health human resource planning, capital equipment investment, construction planning and other initiatives that should be co-ordinated–that will be co-ordinated province-wide. Now, I myself was pleased to be in Interlake - Eastern Regional Health Authority for the announce- ment of our graduates that would be going into the various rural com munities.

And at that time, it was, if I'm not mistaken, I think there were nine family physicians that would be practicing in the Interlake - Eastern Regional Health Author ity. And that was in addition to the four family medicine residents that were completing their training in that region. * (17:10)

October 12, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4053 You know, the focus is to as quickly as possible have residencies –individuals, completing their resi - dency, which is the last stage in training for doctors following graduation from medical school, to be encouraged to work in our rural com munities, to be encouraged to work in primary care. I know some of them want to go on to be specialists, and many of them are friends of mine, but I always try at every oppor - tunity to convince and to encourage those individuals to work in primary care; it's a very fulfilling practice to be in.

So what that –when individuals are seeking physicians, they have a pool of physicians to draw from. So we will continue our recruitment and retention efforts to ensure that the doctor finder program is able to meet the needs of Manitobans. And I know that the member is aware of this as well, that there are hot spots across our province. There are some areas that ex perience more difficulty than, let's say, for example, Winnipeg. And where those hot spots are occurring, we're working very closely with the regional health author ity–Shared Health is –and we will continue to support those efforts.

MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. And before –my colleague, actually, from Point Douglas, will be asking questions, moving forward, but I just wanted clarity from the minister. She had said earlier in regard to the Domino's Pizza CEO donation of $2 million, that they were working on that. Is the minister providing that response today, or is the minister –is that an under taking? I just need clarification. Ms. Gordon: I appreciate the honourable member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) clarifying the earlier question.

I just want to be sure that we're separating adult epilepsy from children's epilepsy. So, in May 2017, Michael Schlater, who is the CEO of Domino's Pizza, Canada, donated $2 million, and that was to the Children's Hospital pediatric epilepsy program. So that has been long–that has been done, and has–that transfer has been completed. MLA As

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-3-80b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 3rd hansardpdf 80b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c15819227326aeefa582558890c165ef9b48d20c

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