VOL. 3 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TR&'iiSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, MARCH 14, 1978 NO. 6

7aoe lS 7 !:"C - 1 7::.e :louse cet at 3 ;(')() P .'''. "r. Speaker in t~e Chair. r'rder, please: I am ple~sed to welcome to t~e 5~-:t.~e.:"ltS frc~ s t a ·::evir.. Is Sc'-.ool in t~le r:oulds 3.CC0fi':T"''2nie:: 0 '1? ::::~i :­ tcac~er, :riss Turner. I ~·.no1;v :;on. ~er.~,ers j a in :-:.e i.r:. -:n~lcomin.z r:1es1? :5 tut!euts anc r::1eir teacher to t~e ~·ouse. S".TfF''f":'~'!"S ~-Y : 'I::IS'!"F.~S r.,e ~on. the nremier. Last ~•eek in FuroDe there <·7aS an event r::~at took place ::11at -lid not get r.:uch publiritv 1-_e re anr!

I t~:ink it is ~~~ort:!1.y of the r~ouse to :ake note. ..\nd I oersonally :-.~ve a ~rent G.eal of pri~e i.n recognizing: \VI"-.at 1 1ap~ened there, a.r..d t~::::r.t is ~·ih~n soP1e forty-eight "l.ocl•ey teams from Euro?e and :'orth .\I:>.erica com'!'eted in the Old timers' Hoc!~ey Tournament and the Conception :!lay ree !lees c-Ion the tournament outright. .\nd I think it is a crer\it to the Province. SO!lE RO'r. :~E:'3"EI'-.S: Rear, hear: Those we~·e rlavs, ~ ' r.

Speaker, ··rhen conflict was prohably more pleasurable than it is today as far as so~e of us are concerned, but I would like to move that this House go on record of extending con;ratulations to a '::unc't of peonle ~-rho Here very oopular in this Province <rhen thev '~ere particioatin~ in major '1ocl:e:r and certainly have been a credit to the Provine~ and to our country overseas.

SPE,\I~E~: 'I:1e han. !.e:1-~er of the Onnosition. •:ery bri.aflv, Sir, I <mul c! li!·c to associate cry:self on behalf of my colleagues '-lith the rel!larks of the hon. the Premier on the Oldtimers' Hoc>-.ey, the performance out on by t!:l.e peoole from 'lewfoundland, !:Jy Conception '\av South "articularlv. Per~aps Oldtimers - I should not say this, '~r. Spenker, but it seemarl

.. arc~ 14, 1072 '!'aoe 157 E<. - 2 to me ,.;hen the hon. the Premier ~ ·:as making his statel!'.ent there was a feelin)< of emoat!ly and svmoat!w at tile conce?t of ~in~ an oldtimer - r.o~:-;-:: - in terns of politics particularly, ~:r. Speaker. Anrl TTl2ybe it is :ime ~ctv to r:<rt~:e :-.ray for t:-.e :teu Jrood tc1at is coming up in political li::e. \lear, 1-tear! :~. r;. "10!110:: Rut, ~r. Sneaker, I just say t~at by ~Jay of an incidental comment. . I do .i oin ~moleheartedly with t!1e hon. the Premier's renarks re~arding the Oldtimers' ~oc!:ev '!:ournament. Hear, hear! ~fr.

Sneal:er. ~efore reco~izinP. the hon. ~entle~an if r;hat ~as !Jroceeded is under the :1earling Statements :,v ~'inisters, o~viously it '>ill 1--e 1-J•r leave before I coulccl recop.nize the !'ion. E!entleman. If it is previous to Statements by '~inisters,and ~1ords of general congratulations then obviouslv I will recognize him. ~o I understand it correctly that this is not strictly speakin~ Statements by ~· :inisters?

I am thinkin~ of the precedents last :rear -when other hon. mel'lbers ·..;ere denied the right to speak on Statements by :rinisters unless they ••ere leaders of a caucus. (Inaudi',le) T'1e hon. t!!E'l'lber for Port cie Grave. : ~. Soe~:er, I would like to associate myself 1dth the rerr.arl~s of the l:'rernier and Lcacer of c':-\e CJnnosition. our narticular part of Concencion i:ay. :•e l:nmv them all quite nersonally. ~-r-.o,.; that the Cee "ees actually <<ere from our !)art of Conception ~ay and as :'le "'rer.tier noted, ~e '·''IS very closel; t associ.ater! • · :i.t~ t':ose Cee [)ees at one tire .. 454

T.;.~e 157 3 ~o on ~ecord ~s associatin~ ~self 1d.th t~e remarks t~at ""''e ;:,een ;r.ade and offer ry can:;:ratulations • . \nd : urtderstand t:tat t'1ey are to arrive et Gander around 3: 3'1 cr Sat u r~a y of t~is ~ee~. l"o] !.egiate, "av ~oberts. Last Sundav at t".e star'iui!l there 455

~arch 14, 1978, Tape 158, Page 1 -- apb MR. DAWE: they won the All-Newfoundland Schoolboys' Championship. They played a team from my friend from Ex];·loits' (Dr. Twomey) district. The town of Botwood had a team there. They had a good series. by only one game. Bay Roberts Ascension Collegiate.won The calibre of the ho~key was beyond what I thought was being played by the young fellows today and I would like to associate ~yself with those extending congratulations to Ascension Collegiate and at the same time congratulate the team from Botwood High Schoolfor the excellent series they provided. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: and Energy. MR. PECKFORD: STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS The hen. Minister of Mines Mr. Speaker, I would like to have leave of the House, before,we get on to Statements by Ministers, to continue in this vein for about two minutes longer. I would just like to bring to the attention of the hon.

House that on Friday and Saturday of last week a number of M.H.A's travelled from here tQ Botwood to partake in a mackey game there in Botwood on Friday night and on to Springdale in the great historic district of Green Bay on Saturday afternoon at which tournament we were fortunate to come away as the victors and were presented with a trophy. We are very proud of that. The member for Exploits, the member for Ferryland(Mr. Power), the member for Mount Pearl(Mr. N. Windsor), the member for Bonavista North (Mr. Cross) and the member for Naskaupi (Mr.

Goudie) and yours truly were successful in counteracting a very massive onslaught by the Lions Club of Springdale. We . would like to go on record as thanking the Lions Club and Kinsmen of Botwood and also the Lions Club of 456

March 14, 1978, Tape 158, Page 2 -- apb MR. PECKFORD: Springdale for putting off this great mockey tournament in Botwood and Springdale. Lions Winter Carnival Mackey Cup, Springdale 1978: Fearless in the House,/ Fainthearted on the ice,/ Thanks for coming Humbugs,, Wasn't Springdale nice? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ 000 PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Justice. MR. HICKMAN: Mr.

Speaker, I table the Public Accounts of the Province of Newfoundland for the year ended March 31, 1977, and the Report of the Auditor General to the House of Assembly for the financial year ended 31 ·March, 1977. I compliment the Auditor General for his excellent report and I also compliment the officials in the Department of Finance of this Province for having implemented such excellent accounting practices. May I,while I am on my feet, Mr. Speaker, indicate to hon. members that Friday coming, Friday the seventeenth day of March 1 1978, the budget will be brought down. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: and Energy.

MR. PECKFORD: Hear, hear~ The hen. Minister of Mines Mr. Speaker, I would like to table The Newfoundland and Labrador Petroleum Regulations . 1977, and The Mineral Regulations 1 1977. MR. SPEAKER: Notices of Motion. MR. HICKMAN: MR. SPEAKER: of Motion? Agreed~ Answers to Questions. I am sorry, I cannot hear. Leave to revert to Notices MR. HICKMAN: l'lr. Speaker, I give notice 457

March 14, 1978, Tape 158, Page 3 -- apb MR. HICK..\1AN: that I will on tomorrow ask leave to ask the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions for the granting of Interim Supply to Her Majesty. MR. SPEAKER: Opposition. HR. W.N.ROWE: ORAL QUESTIONS The han. Leader of the Thank you, Sir. A question, Sir, for the Premier.

In view of the statement on the news today that apparently the Public Utilities Board has now sent the government a report following the hearings involving Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro which are likely to result in an increase to the consumers of this Province,if implemented, of some 15 per cent in their electricity rates, is the Premier now prepared to say what the government intends to do about this recommendation by the Public Utilities Board? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr.

Speaker, as I understand it the retail price would be more like 7 or 8 per cent as opposed to the 15 per cent which would be charged to Newfoundland Light and Power. We have not had an opportunity to study it yet, it just arrived this morning. Certainly when we do have an opportunity to study it the government will be making its position clear. MR. W.N.ROWE: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. W.N.ROWE: Can the Premier give a little more specific idea to the House, ~x. Speaker, as to when we are likely to know if any increase is going to be implemented regarding the rate of electric power? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Mines and Energy who is responsible to answer that question. 458

!-larch 14, 1978, Tape 158, Page 4 -- apb MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we received the report this morning and it is now being analyzed. I have just had 459

'c.rch 14, 1S73. Ta;1e 159 J .: - " ~ . FEUFO!;:J: the opportunity to speak to the Premier rather ~riefly as .fe ~ere corning in the House.

The matter is being ana,yzed, the r e ~or t , an :i t !~ e r 2 ''' i 11 be r e co n1:1 end at i 011 s , of course , fro n t ~ e :J e p a r t ;;1 en t o ~ : ~ i n e s a n d E n e r ~ y t o C a b i '' e t L1 i s '·" e e ~ a r. d i1a;:efulb ti1en gavernr:lent \·;ill hHc a cilJnce to fullv re·1ie''' it and make it; oosition kno·,,n as it relates to t'H~ reco::1- mendations in the report. ~uffice it to say,as the Pre~ier has already indicated,that the 44 ner cent increase renuest- ed by ~ewfoundland Hydro would translate itself into around a 14 ~er cent retail orice increase, an~ hence the amount recommended by the Public Utilities Goard to be ~warded to :le' .. ,foundland Hydro oeing some\•1:1ere in t~e vicinity of 23 or 24 per cent ~auld t~erefore :orrespondingly m~an a reduct- ion in the amount of retail price that would be given to consumers and domestic consumers in the Province and hence it would seem on the surface that the amount of retail orice increase inherent in this recommendation from PUB would ~e around the 7 or 8 ) e r ~en t . mark .

But t h at \1 o u 1 d a l so ::! e - pend to some degree upon Newfoundland Light and Power's reaction to the overall price increase. f1 K • W • N • K U :H. ; P.! R • s r : ~ !~: "' : i-1 supplelut:ntary, Mr. ::.peaker. The hen. Leader of the Opposition ~ i r e c t e d to t n e f' r em i e r • r n v i e \·t of the fact that if this Province, if this qovern~ent were to receive further income or greater incone fro!'l the '!::JI'lP.r Churchill Falls project, the 10vernment might be in a better position to subsidize the possible electricity to consu"'ers in the Province as a whole.

Can the Premier tell the House whether when he was speaking to Premier Levesque on Friday, presumably negotiating something or other althou~h that never became clear, whether the Premier tel~ Premiet Levesque 460

,'!arch 14, 1978 Tape 159 ;) :·1 - 2 point-blank that unless ~e QOt a better deal on the Uqper Churchill power, the Premier and the government were prepared to pull the switch on the '.'pper Churchill po·..:er developc:ent? MR. SPEAKER: The Honorable Premier. P R E :·1 I E R r·10 0 R E S : ~~ o , ~! r • S p e a k e r , I d i d n o t t e 1 1 ·:r. Levesaue that \·re 1·1ere going to pull the s· .. ,itc~ . :-!R. ~LN. ROI/E: One further supolementary, if I may, Hr. ~peaker. ~ill the Premier then, Sir, tell the House whether,in vie11 of the fact that orior to the :;Jeeting ·.·lith :lr.

Levesque he had stated that before an~' negotiations. f~rther negwtiations with 0uebec,take place there ~ust be a revision, a favourable revision of the contract bet~een Hydro Quebec and ~ewfoundland regardin~ the Jpper Churchill power so that we get a better share, a fair share, 1hether no! that policy has been changed,since · the impression received from the press conference that he and 'lr. Levesoue had on Friday was that the Premier and Mr.

Levesque were prepared to commence negotiations on the other rivers in Labrador in spite of the fact that apparently no differert conclusions had been reached regarding the upper Churchill p o~1er ? i•!i1. SPD KER: The . han. Premier. PRE!liER liOORES: :!r. Soeaker, it \'laS made very clear to ~r. Levesque t~at our first priority has to be t~e re­ negotiation of the ~pper Churchill co~tract.

The bargai~tns power we have in that reQard, I think. is well known to all in the House as to what that is~ we have some bargainin~ power with the head waters, the eventual head ~ater flooding of those three rivers particularly that flow into ~uebec 1-1ith h.vdrt'J potential. 461.

"arch 14, 1972 Taoe 159 ,., ... .) . • - .l We also, of course, have the surplus oower from ·.t:ni'llusl<r at .or C:.Jll Island deve.lopn:ent, if we cannot attract industr~ to us2 it ourselves, sone s u r~l us power , that dOuld ~a ~e ;c J! n e :o ti~t!C. : ~: 'rimari l y tne :hin q · ~e •:nnt :o .! eKe s~rc: o f is --~a:: ar.·J hydro develop=e nt we have or an y t h in~ we do wil l ~ ! to reverse that oarticular colicy t~at has 9one Jefore i~ t his Pro vince and anythin g we do for new developnent, all devel - opr.:ents · vlill be in the best inte r~sts of the ceople of t!lis Pr.ovince . 462

:::1-rc!l 1!<., 1973 _;::[ - l Opposition. Can the Precier tell the :touse then, :·lr. Spe.:~.ker, -.rhy si01ce soce t'-10 or ti1ree ·.;eeks, well a mont~1 or· so ~~o,he :1ac!e .J ~ublic stata:lent conce~i:1~ :~:e :lrastic 2.C!:i.cn ,~ .... .. " • do-::v~ the C!1ur:.!till F2lls ~1.yciro 1Jt'Oject ii i.·.ie Jo ~1ot ..;et a f~ir shar.: of th~ Yalue of t:1.:1.t~ c~ t he :'re.:1i~r t~:l us ·-t::y ~:1is su~j.::ct ~.·Jas not broacl1ed ~-rith :rr. L..~vesqua anc.l in cliscus~i:1c; ti1e r"2:.'~r c:1urc:!ill po~·rer ~1~ diU not ~ke :1is pvsition clear to ?re:nier Le,TeS (iue t"1r.1t ··re.

L.t t:1i!:) Provi:tce 3.re por~c>areci., if necessary, to take t:12 ~r~stic ~et a ~air s~~<J.re of ti1.a ·value of tliat po~.~er for this Frovince'l Tl1.e hon. the PrerJier. l!r. S:,>c.:.ker, I never said t!1at it "'as ~ot ~ntioned. I just said that we did not make an outright statement t:1at ~•e were :;oing to do it. There is a dist:.nct uif_::'erence. It ;,as v-;ry definitely r::e~tioncd and the mooci of tile people of t::ilis Province was made very clear to clr.

Levesque a:1ci the si tueti<Jn is of course that anything as drastic as pulling the s"i::.ch, as it is ;>hrascd, ;muld be a very last resort and hopefully, Sir, th~re are enough 3ensi:.le and sane people or. :.oth sides to cooe up :Jib anot!ler solution before t!1at c-:ould be necessat""J . :D.. :.JT:>_.\C:L\.:1: . \ 3upplcment::Iry question to the I're::d~r. It to~as ou~lined on Friday in the ~!.ou~e. that t:te pr~t;ent course bein~ taken by this administration is to obtain ~dditional value for the pm•er th.:J.t is presently :.ein;; sold in interi.-:~ to Hydro (!uebec.

C9uld t~e Preoier indicate to us 11!1at :nethod he intends to apply, or •.,rhat net hod 463

. ::1::c!: 1~, 1973 :1as be-=!n 3.pplied. for tt e 2;2.inir' .. ~ of tt:i.s !l~dit:.onal value for the po~<er presently bei:J.~ ~'old <:!nd <·riJ.ether :1: :old t~H~ Premier of Quebec ~<i"h.:lt :Jethod L.te ~"ZS soi:lt; to LlSe~ :;hct:ter ::e could tell us no'1 L"l t~e :'ouse, and t~e people of t!:e Provine~, ~ .. rh~t ::::1athoJ r.e i:1.tends to 11se for t~:e ;i:!.ini:l; of the :!!1'..! Jt~cr places, 3.n.:i u~til suc!.1 ti::1e 3.5 'Yf2 :~av~ Ei.1..:;;. l l zt: ~.· . ...;, Li.. ~ : t ::e forefront of tl1e attacl- ·,•c.a t:1e recall of :;ou me~awatts of 300 ::~egava~ts of po;ver'Z T~Le ~1on. Pre.Iilier.

I t~liuk, ::r-. .J~eak~r, it i~ f.:1ir to ac..y , .:.:1 ~ th.: ;Jrice for tile po '-•~r ~a ·.:ell '"eca:.tse if you ::an recall any o= :::11 the ~o~er. ooviously at t:1at rate tt.e inclir..ation -;;auld ::.e for Quel>ec or ';.lnoever else to autoUJatically adjust their rates so that it became more profitaole to us rather than establish just energy intensive 464

_I.:trc::. 14, l973 T.:1.;c .. ,;o ... 160 ~~Z-IZR : · !OORE~: industries in. suC'l ~uge quantities that ,;oul;i b<; naed~d to employ all 5,225 :.e~.:J.I·ratts of ::he C,;per C:Lurchill ~ower.

It ~.voulci ~e o~vious ~:1.:.: or:.ca t~c IslanC :lad its done5tic ~eecis and some industrial needs that it Nould be in ~t.:ab::c's ",).:st intarest to ra:t.e~otiat~ t:~.~ ?rice.. 3-:J Za;,;le :\.iver for a sup;>lc~;.entary, and t:le ::c,1. :::w .l'"mber f,; r LaPoil~ for a fin.:1l sup'f:.eDentary 9 anti t:1~n the !~on. oe..iJer for ·,;incisor Buchans. is '::tat in t~e in::erim there is no ho;:>e '*l1atsoever for any action on c::e c:'lurc:1ill ::all3 po,...:er unt:..2. t:1e cour: :1a.:i ;::J.a.c!c a. decisioLl ... ::ic.h v;w: :1ave bean tol •i "ill be J.oHn t!1e roatl co.

"udler of ;•ears 1 so c:1:.t 0et,;een now and Hhen the court case :1a.,; fin<!lly cn~e to a C.ecision, this ?rovince ~ust sit back and watch and nv~ ~ain any value or be able to negotiate •Nith Queuec. ~1-:: han. ?remier. PFZ:!IER :-lOORES: :-rothing could be further from t~e truth, clr. Speaker.

The fact is ~hat ;;hils~ ne~otia~ions, c!ialo::;l.le if you li;,.e, are .;;oing on -..,it:l ':uellec and ·.;ill con~in:.le to ~o ·~n, this ?-::evince and this government has no intention c1f standin;; ~y, as t:1e ~1on .. m.3~ber 3ug~ests 9 :or t~~o nr th~ae y ears anti Go :10t~i:1g ur~til t~1e =-Jl rt ~z.se ~s concluJ.ed. ~:r. Spe.1~.:.er, ?oth I'reoiers ~ L think, follo\;in:; t~e ::1eetin2 at a news ::.onfC!ranc.e saicl ti1:1t they wculd. abid~ :Jy the decision of theccourt.

Ilm• let me a·sk the Premier this; under '.Jhat statute, under what aut~ority is t!1e Province suing Churchill Falls Corvoration and/or ~ uebec Hydro for 465

::.,rc:l 1.:.,1973 T<:.pe :~o. ::.n re.cG.l.l of t.:iOO r.lega.w·atts o£ pov.rerZ l:ncier wuat stact.:.t~? l.i ic a statute of tUis Provi:u.ce?

C:oul~ the Prc.:aier i:lU.icate t~1c aut .. 1ority u:u.i~r v;nich a.ctio~.1. is ~eir.g t.lk.en at;air.:.st C~:urcl"! ill Fi.ill::i Corporatior. ana/or Quebec Hydro? ~1 oti..::~ of t~1.is tJ.Ut:stion dilc,;, ,;ct <41 c.~cur::i.:L! l.ii~.~· ... ·~r for ti.1e .::. ~llt:.!.~a:l, Uu. t as I unciersc~nc.i it ia is ~:1.~ \.,ater lease ~~rceL.;.enc that · . ..-as an ~ c t r.f t ~; ._~ :;overm:.ent c.nc;. cnev. if you l.:~ .. t ,anu. c:nat is t:.ae 'Y·a~.~icle Vhlicn ;. .. ;e dre usi=.g ::o .;et t~~t: racal.l and .1opefully c:1at will result in the •• rice ir.crc:ase after. ::n~t \olou.ic.. i:i :!O t be ;-ossi~le for ~ ie,.;founcila.n~- anu ~· e ' ~ l.:J.Ve ~1e.::.rd ao U1ucn aoout ao1.1ebouy ;;iviu.; tl1<o .,ower <J:.<ay- ·,.,oulu it uot be ,::o,;sii>le uil.der ti<is s<!Zle a:atute C..1at c:u~ :1on.

Pr=ier aoes not l•r.l,.,. ~~out at tue ~kent, woula it aoc ~e pos3ible to stop ~11 t~~ ~~le o£ ?O"'er to Quei.;ec i!y~ro if wa ll..!.l ·.1::;e fu::- it: i. H~rc ir... ~ ~ 11~ ?::vv . ...: .. 1c.:..., j~OJ me~awatts , would i~ not be possibl~? ~ay :: .. d.t til~ puvc;r .~a~ u~en c.ivcu away? . G.. Pi: C~G"O ill : livJ. ~lu::) C:.i.le fact ti.wt:. ouc.t: ;:..:.l.:lt i.:; ....:.CJ .. J.C ti:.en QueOer.:. ti:,·uro 466

Quo;i:Jec ri;,'uro, CFLCo. :.:r. 3pcai .. er, th.a r~ificar:ions o£ \·;aac ~,;.l~ ~n. LJ.=:r~Ler for LaPo:i:le (.1:::. oi.:o.>ry) .z:ention.s _:::rr~ G.: . ·'-'-. SP:.u;::c •• : t~1ere are ten~er:; calle...:. practic<Ol"-y every ot.1er c..:.)•; 0n Se[Jt;;.wb.:o!" 14,1977 ;:;.;~ P:::erail!!" ;;~a<:ie t'H! follo·.ring st:.t:e1:.e.1t au...:. I ·.;u<-·t~, ,;till be givez:. to tile ;;-~ople of Bucnans? :·iLL SPEAKE,'l.: PI'.E.:.!IER :.:OORES: i·lr. Speaker, I certai."lly personally 'N"ould li~e t:o see tnat :1appen wi1o::re the people c;ave ~ue: sicills that are required £or t.~1at particul.:.r j oil.

But t"ere is a probleu ::1ere t: i :a.~ I 'L not realize at the time aud I think tile hen. member !!laY realize it: or may not. TI1at is ti1at the Conscructic.n ::ra.les i1ave an .;.greement wit i; :'iewfou.ltl.land !iy<lro to do ti1eir work for ti1em1 G.UJ t~e union ac -~~c .. ~n3 i.; ~~!.eSt~el\\•ork.ers.and the proUlem I sug:.;est: ioi ~oii:i..;.; co Je - ...... ...~..:.

CQ-upf:ration Tll:"lereOy O.=le unioil will allo\.; ~vorkers f LoJ·..l d.!.lOt .. l:r :.:.ut: if JCJU u.re <i:;;k.L.l~ I!ie ~low· I feel per~onalli .::.L.:out. it uc~ ,j,S :o ~lot.J t~te g;overrw.ellt feels,cer~.linly I ·~oulc.l l.i.i.~t::: to .;l?.e e:v..:~y OLJl:ortu:..:..it:t go to t;le people of iluc;1aus. d:R. ::i"LIGliT: 467

::qe l ui .; sup~la:1euc2.r~·. rLiVlii: ! i"'.ave ~ eeo a-war~ c.s otiH:r :.ave ~ <::en aware c,la:. c:.c!::c t he c .. oinet anci t;le ?resier anc! i:<1is Eouse uave got .;1 coc:rit:1.mt to t.~e ;leo~ie of iJucitans anci I ..:...:i.:::-. ; :ul t u.: Tr:.tles ant.< Lauour ~eo?l>! ~re ~robabl7 ~=q>ect~:t.tt a !.lt:ct!:\~ or a c:tll tro t: t~ c . ;.:..t: is~cr oi ::ta.:pvt;e: ~:t<.i I~C.uoicrial ~~ac:.!.o o s .

So I :.: '-' U..:~ :.J.:,t! t o ~' · ~ ~a ...;: .1 C:~1e :.d.!l.ister, reco:;n i ::L"'l~ c~1c 3lt·.:~ ::..; ..t ~; .• i ..; c i.!.i; :.u :; c..:. :t.:. ~~. re..;ogniziug c:~at t ~ t~ Duc l'la&i~ ~concC"ty is f:.Ici.n~ ~oi:.al c.ul;.az>SC 'til..: ,: cal l-:ea co c:..e 'i.'racies and Lacou-r ?e()rle and loo;..atl at the ;-ossi bility ui. ::. e.,;oq.at ilt~ 'J:J.'I:. and w..:;;m.s c:1ac t he 3uci~aas ;>eople wao ..!l:!t l a i u IJ.if or. c:1ac job ..;et '-'Or k ou i:•le i;incis i..::Lke ? rojccc? It i s ~:.;1e:r '!u.e !\Oil • .:ti.·ti. s ce r:: • 468

!-larch 14, 1978 Tape 162 PK - 1 Mr. Rousseau: Yes,we have had some very prelimiary discussions with the Building Construction Trades Council. We will be working on that matte r . I understand there are a number of people who are construction oriented working at Buchans who have not been employed really in the construction industry for some time now. It is our hope, as the Premier has indicated,that as many people from Buchans as possible get jobs on that project, and we will pursue that matter with the 3uilding Construction Trades. XR.. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: MR. FLIGHT: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

A final supplementary. The Premier knows, Mr. Speaker, because this has been debated and talked about for a long time, that the only way the people ~f Buchans can get priority anyway, can take advantage of any priorities offered them on the Hinds Lake project is to have access roads into the construction sites from Buchans which would be a maximum of eight,ten miles of road added to what will already be built. Has the Premier or the Cabinet considered putting those access roads in so as to give the people of Buchans the priority that he has indicated that he wants them to have. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER MOORES : Yes, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South followed by the hon. gentleman for LaPoile and for Bellevue. MR. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, a question for the Minister of Transportation and Communications.

I wonder would the minister be good enough to inform the House whether he was in receipt of a request for assistance from a number of residents on a road branching off from Dunfield Road in Foxtrap on the weekend concerning the fact that the road has been blocked there, and no ploughing by either any municipality or provincial authority and the residents of course are left in a position whereby if the:e is a fire or a serious accident or hospitalization required that there is no way the residents can get out.

And I am wending if the minister could, one, provide us Hith the information as to when he received a request for assistance; two, what is the reason 469

~rch 14, 1978 Tape 162 PK - 2 Mr. ~alan: for this problem that has been a very serious one for the people there now for at least two years, in some instances; and what if anything he is prepared to do about it? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. w. DOODY: Mr. Speaker, the second part of the question first, what are ''e prepared to do about it? Instructions have been given to the highways people in that part of the Conception South district to plough that particular road, and this is being done this afternoon.

I have had conversations with people who lived on that road, and are living on that road, and it is an unusual and a rather frustrating situation in which they find themselves. They are not in an incorporated community Foxtrap is not part of the Conception Bay South municipality - and the road on which they live has not been accepted by the Province through the Department of Transportation and Communications as the responsibility of the Province. It is not up to standard.

The developers who put the road in there, and subsequently sold lots and had houses built thereon,did not bring it up to a standard acceptable to the department and as a result the department has refused to accept it. And I want to make it clear the department still refuses to accept it, and it is still not recognized as a responsibility of the department. We do recognize a responsibility for the people who live in that area, however 1 and in the interest of health and safety we have undertaken to plough the road and to keep it ploughed.

Cbviously, as the hon. member has indicated,the people do have a right to emergency services, fire protection, and ambulance services and so on, and we will keep the road open for that purpose, But the road is really too narrow to do a satisfactory or an adequate job, so I am told, and there is a danger of - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) . MR. DOODY: Wait now1 I am trying to answer some of these questions. These people are former constituents of mine. These are people in whom I have a very sincere and honourable interest, and I am trying to answer my friend's question, if the man from Lapoile (Mr. Neary), the 4'10

~rc:h 14, 1978 Tape 162 Pk - 3 Mr. Doodv: hon. member is !Jored, or discouraged, or unhappy, you know, I c:an stop,if the House does not want it. What odds,that is enough anyway, Your Honour. We will let it go. MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUSH: Does the hon. gentleman ask for a supplementary? Yes. 471

::arch 1.4, :978 Ti.!;:_, ::o. 163 :3... S?:slJ.G::t: -------- :~. :.rrs=r: On Saturday there ;:as a ~ousa Jurnec:! on the Jauli~e ~oad and I ~ndarst~nd from reading in the p~~er th~t one of t~~ ~ajcr re~sons for the ~ouse bei~g co~pl~tely ourned ,.-as the difficulty that the fire!:len had in t;etti::5 to ·-:a~ ·.Jverburde1:ed or just . ..,.~at tha 13itua.tion ~:as? '~ _._ .... . .,., ~:JQJY: pr~ssure,on tile amount of equir-cent available. It ·.ras a rather ;1eavy sno;-r sto=, a lot of drifting, roads were in terrible conditions.

I :;:no;.; that the craws were '.>or~~ing late and working harc.l and on that pa:oticular I Jo '"-Ot have any specific info=ation on it. I ,.,ill 'Ge only too :1appy to find out what the reason was for that delay. It is a ::JOS t unusual one. I have iudic.:J. ted I Hill recognize the ~1on. ~enber for LaPoile n~~t. t:r. Speaker, I ~10uld li..'Lce to direct a questi~n ";;he hon. :~inister of Justice. '-I ill •:e repeat the q:.~es tion for you? :-to, Hr. Speaker. ::R.. C'IEARY: :-;r.

Speaker, I •Jould like to :;ive notice to the House that I am :lissatisfied '.rith t;1e ans"er the ~inister :u;.s ;,;iven :::.e and i.;ish to d2ba.te it dur·in~ the Lat~ Si:Lo\·l on 472

:ape ::o. 1~3 Tl1ursday comin~. The han. ~sber for Conce~)tion Jay Soutn. on ~ supplementary. c:R. ::ou:;: If th~ answer to t~e ~uestion fro~ han. friend -::;as no, ~hat thumbs tava no~ "...t;;er_ turned clow""!l, -:1ha.t is ::Le :ri.nis ter ~a in; to do 3.jout it and ~.;he!.1 is >.e .:';OlEO :o ~ust have fell: I 3~loulC. :tave 3aiJ ::1.0 ~Jecause otherwise t~-:.erc ~.raul..:. ::.e :1.0 debate. I G.id no-c turn t!tul.l~S J.o·..m. thu:::tbs up .

I indicated to t:1e Police ilrot!::er~:ood at their request, some ti!lle ago or some months ago, ti1at before there was any change i:1 c:1e existing legislation dealin~ 1.1it:1 ~alice commissions I would accede to t~eir request to sub~it a brief. TI:ey have indicated to me t:1at t~1ey are working assiduously on t!'le brief and they hope to have it ready by this Fall. :·3.. SP'S.\i~1: I ~1ad indicatec I ·,;auld reco6-J.iZ2 the ~1un. ::Ie!!!ber for Bellevue n~x:, follo-.;ed L,y the han. ;a:.e:::.~ers for St. Geor;se's, and Trinity- 3ay de Verde. ~S..

C:\LL!0T: .~f i::mrism in connection 'vit:l t:1e current hunter ca;J<lbilit:r tests that are brin:;; conducted. First of all I ,..,.ant to ask the :uinister- the :::ir:.is::C!r kno~·?S that no political party would conduct an election durin::; Febru.:.ry ;:nd ~!arch, so Hould the 1:1inister explain ·~·hy t:!'l<se cap<J.bility tests are 473

, n .. o J.. .. : '-' ~ei:tb conducted d.L!.rir..; 7e:,"!:'uary e.nc! :·!3"!:'~h it is aecessa!:'y to ta\e these. tests? i.;'ny T-1as re:,ruary and ~·!.:1=c!1. chosen? The r.on. ~li:lister of !our.is!'l . :~ .. . .......... - ' ... --·-·: _._ .. ... ::r. - !'~~ r u~r:,. . OI:'.goi:t:; until apprc:d=tely arounci t h e c.ncl of .\[:>ri2. or the "-liuCJ.e of :~y t;~is year. A supplementary. A supplementary. ::r.

Speaker, . .._, .. auld tl1e ~:.iniacar te:l t~l~ ;iouse ••:u1t percentace must a ;;>ropspective nunter score on tile ;;rittan or oral part of that test in orcier to be consi<l<::::ed a ca;:able i1unter, wi1at !Jercentat;e? is aSt;.ed to carry oc.t 3hootii.:g tests and t:l1csa shootine; tests can ;:;e very seldom carried out i:1 the sa:::e location as the >lritten/ oral test. T.•at is very obvious. So we i1ave to :nove the applica.."lts to arec.s like for example in St. Joi,n' s thE. 474 3

.~ . :::>~G..\::. to :::e !ra~ -Ca~ca ::iJh::.:zy :1od t:·u~::~ :!ley :~ ave :o att=p: :o "it a target s~tee.:l oy suteen, fifty yards a~ay :roo :l:.lt tar;et, .at :-.;o silo t.s out of t hree . If ::e passes 6ese 1:110 t:ests ~2 t hen c;u.alif!.es ::o .nai:c .:1\Jplic.:lt io::: fo r ;,i; 475 ~ ··' - 4 ..

r:c - 1 ~'1L C.'\LLAN: not the shooting aspect of it. :·lould the !l'.i;l_ister a~ree that it is not ten c:uestions, there are t~<enty questions - ten on a oage for a 1!otal 'nrl 1muld the J::inister not agree also c:l1at, you ':noH, a:1;.-body t~at can fail six of t!-Jese out of t~·entv is still consirlerec a capable. '!.unter? !-!o~ · r c~n t~at ~e? Sevent7 ~er cent: is ::::e ::ct:1a.l fi.~.!re, I helieve. ~e 11on. ~'ii'.ister of 'l'ourism. ~·r. oreaker' apnarentl:r the hon. gentleTI".an cannot understand. You :.ave to answer correctly ~even a_uestions out of ten.

Chat is seven out of ten - ~:ell, that is 7!'J ner cent is it not? - 70 per cer t in both cases. So the han. 7,entleman surely c-ust unc'.erstanc' that the :mnter, to be looked upon as a a_ualifiecl. annlicant to qual!fy for a big game licence, has to get 7!'J per cent. A supplementary, 'fr. Speaker. I have indicated that t~at :Jill he t!:le last supple1:1entar:• . :::R. CALL~T: I am dissatisfied Hith the ans,.;er and I ,.;ish to debate it on the Late Show. Ch, that is the idea. r.reat, great! I have indicated I will recogni7.e the han. melT'ber for St.

George's follo•.,ecl. by the hon. !"e!:!ber for Trinity - !la)' ole ~'erde. Hr. c::!Jeal~er, I have .-:t 'l.Ues t-i..on ~or the ''inistcr of "'orcstry and ,'.(lriculture. I HC'uld like to r~fer to :he agreement t'.1at 'olas signed recently be~- 1een the orovincial minister :md the fe<!eral ~~in is tar of A~ri . culture. It refers to a small farm development programme, and it is my understanding that it is a small scale family farm. I would like for the minister to tell me just ,_ohco.t type of =arm t!'!is 1•ould he. Is this a back ?arden type thing or Hould it be a small type farm on a cot:T"ercial basis?

T•Tould you e:-:nlain that pleese, Sir? 476

"arch 14, 1?78 Tape 164 rr: - 2 The 'lon. "inister of ""orestrv and A~riculture. ~~. :!A~Tt\RD: It ~•auld involve both, :-rr.

Speaker, t!-le sr.all :a-rily type f~!"'!!l. ··;hereby a family tries to increase t:teir is !10 real rlollar 'Talt:e put Ol'. c~e ?Jr.Ount chat 1--tas to be ECJ.=ed i:1 or:'er ~or oeople to qualif 1, to f:et E'.SsistarLc:e - m.ar.azerial assista:-:.ce, t~is is :~at financial assistance, it is :nann;;erial assistance in 1-]o•·J to ;~eep !::ool~_s, ~ccounts and various technical assistance :::at tr.ey !"a:' use in order to develo:o t!-!e small farns, (·Thether it is the back '!ar~e!! variety or it is a supnle1:1ent to t~e income •.;hic:l t!-!ey !nay ?et fro,., ot"er sources such as fishing or lof!gin .~. !~S. :~c IS.\..".C: 'rell, this agreement then nr:-ounts to a Sl'::O ,C'~'l eX1Jenditure and it amounts to th:tee field staff •ror'~ers assigned ~nth the federal government.

Could tha ~~nister tell T.e if there is any ot~1er agree!"ent \."ith res:oect to agriculture that has been si~er! !::et~··een the provincinl anr! fe•.!eral govern=nts t~1at Houle relP..te to agricu.:.ture on n co~rcial basis? 'l"le hon. "'inister of "'orestrv an·• .;griculture. ~.ere is no a~ree~ent ~resently in effect. "r.

Sneaker, regarding agriculture development in the Province . .2. '}';',;:::: :=.greer:ent to replace t1:e .~!-'.:1:\ agrecT""e.r.t r:hic:-, jlht.sed out last ··,-::. ·'1 !'~ te::-;;~in2.ted last :·arch, :Jut at this point in time t~at is the onl:,• 2!;ree!"'ent that <·:e have <dth the federal governnent. '~ .. SPF.!\.KT::R: I have indicated that I "auld recognize the hon. gentleman from irinity - Ilay de Verde next. ·~ ... '·'r. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the ''inister of fisheries, Sir. 477

: :arc~ 14 ' 19 n ':ape 164 ":C - 3 In vie~; of the severe s torn damag:e that l1as tal: en place in the last couple of months in ten to t....,·el ve co=nities in the district of Trinity - ?.ay de •:erde to the fishing facilities,;.,l-jic':l ''ill ?rcsul!'ably be taken care of ~:: the fe;hral :'.nd provincial goverm::ent '-lhere these faci:!.ities fall un~er the jurisCiction a f t~;e f:cieral or provinc;ial ~ove~~e!lt, coult:. the i:!inist~r indicate if this acministration !1as imy '10lic'{ tO :ce1p t'c.e private Eishern:en Hhere they have los:: orivate sheds, private ~ishing stages and fishing gear and ~oats?

Is there any policy t~at t~e provincial government is undertal:ing or formulating to help t:1e fishermen <>ho have lost private gear? :T . . SPL\.K::P.: The han. ''inister of r.isheries. "" . -\.· Speaker, there is no ongoin? progra=e of assistance to cover lofOS of private ge:?.r. He mentioned the feceral/provincial cost sharing programme.

I sho4ld point out that that progra~e is only applicable where the losses are such that it would qualify for assistance under the rmergency l'easures Or!!anization, which means that if the losses <•ould exceed 55.')0, r1i'JO - one dollar per capita for our population - then the :'eC.eral gove~=nt uoul~ undertake to cost share such a programme in ex~ess of that amount as was the case in the 1n74 gear replacement orogramme.

Some time ago t<e did put together a report in which we recommended certain things to Ottawa, for example, to join the Province in a ~ear insurance programl"' .e that included, I should point out, onshore facilities. OttaHa so far has not seen fit ~o join witC'l us on that l:ind of .:1 ;:>rograrnnc, '>uc , . .-e arc conti~uing to look at it an <! are hopin~ SC'Ime tir::e in the ne:tr future that we can put together solt'e kind of a ~ear insurance programme.

I believe that that kind of a programme is necessary because there are substantial losses suffered almost on a yearly basis by fishermen. ~ut certainly at the present time there is no ongoing programme except the subsidy on landings that ~•e are paying. That 478

;,.:I-:!. u1oney i~ intenc.ieci to JO ::ow·ard.s repl.2.ciu3 lost ~~ar or ~ear ~1 i. at is '.vorn out . ORJERS OF THE DAY ~iQ n . :.1.;! ;. lJcr f or J.....:.Poi.J..c. I jus: war.t to ~·oL.1 ~ i i..: c ut co ·~our HoJ.1our. :<e:v~rtiteless it Joes uot really ma;,e any U.iffere<•C~ now b~cause I :1ave ti1e oppor:uuit.y to :;et c:u= r~atter corrected on t.1e ;lUblic re:corci anyway. And it involves the b1inister of Tourisc, Sir. Order, pl~ase!

If t:ne hon. ~entleraan llacl stated d point of privilege at the ti:ne i1~ · . .;oulJ c1ave been recognized because a person wis:1ing gain tl1e recognition of the tiLa.C. o~viously tal.-.e:s prect:.~enc~ .. I just s~ate t.1at so ti1.:1t ;lon. L!embers ;;.re: auare of it. The i.on. me:Jber. I:: i.; . ~ very ~c~ious mat t ~ r, :11·. !:i ~euJ.er, it. is 1:10St .::ier iou~ .. On~::! of i.cuse fali;e i~:for:nation, esp~ciall) if you Jeliberately :.;ive ti1c neuse false information. I w-ould submit 1 Sir 1 ti1a t on Friclay wi1en I was speaking in the Throne Speech debate on a vote of non-confidence that t il<!

Hiuister of Tourism gav~ ti1e ciouse false anci incorrect i.nfortriation. Anci. not onlj? tl,at, :rr. Speaker, buc :1e rose on a ~oiat a£ 4?9

rtii-(.. minister gave c:he iiouse was in connectioil with ~he stat:e:aent C!1;;.t I order j?aper u t:1e 1977 se;;.;.i.on o£ t~1e :rouse and the nurJber of =5\•ers c:hat were receiveJ from .aiaisters, I was r~ading :.lY m~o, r ... uw~er~ 3iz-, 1U4, only 104 ;;ere answer-a<.! by :.1inisters. At til~t t'Gint:, Sir, atJ.d I :1ave llansard l1ere ilJ. front of .u:, t:1e ver:,atim r-=port of tr•·~ riouse, t4le: Minister of Tou-::isu~ rose on a :;>oint of order. de .oaici, "::r. Speaker, a point of order." In the l-iausard it sc~ys 'l!r. iufor~ation bein:J put for..rard co th~ ~ lon. ;..~..)usc.

Ly :~u: hon. ::1eobcr now spea':.:~•,;"-which was cre-• is i:lc:orrect. r:,e inforwu.tion star:ds as follo~s," quoting the 'uinist.,r. "with re::;.ud to que.;tions asked in the aouse last year, filed aud recorc:ied by ti1i:> .;overrunent anci by the House, last year a total of 769 questions were asked totaled ~y all members of c:he Opposition but out of that 695 were given answers to l:Jy t:le ministe:rs of t:~e Crown." Ai.'l :~o:; .. ·IE:·lliER: ~95. 495. l!r. Spf:.:.ker, I want to draw to t:1e attention of the hon. me1:1bers of the house tnat ;:,lis a serious abuse of privile3e of ti1is House.

It is an attemtJ t to .aisle ad th"' tiouse, ::;;ising a point of order to do it, anJ the ;JOn, :;entl.::--.a:1 .;antlcnan ..ua~e in ~1i:; ?Oint of crder .!.;;; lr:correct. .'u"""tu t:-~~ ~1on . .;c::;.tlet:.au w..ls shouting across the ctous~ to l!le "Chicken, cnic::.en! berserk, gone rignt out of his mind. And now I ask the ilon. :;entleuan ill all decency to stand in tilis :1on, House and .11.bit t:tat ::he :10n. gentlemau vas wren~, t~at the actual ficiures were as I quoteJ, 243 480

r.;.-,e ::o. lti3 • t.:.. ::;::Jc:'l: \:oula t!.:e ::ri.:l_i3ter :10"-' ~o ~ua :_:onou: ao.;...:: ~.liDO u.:u .. $t.:uc; "*~) i.:l t~.is i.oil . i~ouse ~!lu au.ui:: ~.uc tht: :~3 . ~antlaao ·"3.::; ·Jou!~ :;ope t~ut t:•~ ~ :.en. ciai::lcma.r=. \JOul- J~ c.c:c~ : ~o~~:l, ::~., :a£:<>ugil t o .;:a::ui :.1p ::Jt: .m~ a~::1it t:':.:.t 481

March 14, 1978 Tape 166 PK - 1 Hr. Neary: the House. the han. gentleman was wrong and apologize to r will yield and then I will carry on with my address if that is satisfactory to Your Honour. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I am only too pleased to stand in the Rouse and correct the situation which was bought to the House by this han. gentleman last Friday, and whereby I tabled in the House of Assembly at the time was of the opinion the informacion regards to questions asked and questions answered for the last session. \-lha t was tabled, Mr.

Speaker, in error, were che questions asked and the questions answered, and these figures are correct for,l975 and not 1976. Now in apologizing to the House of Assembly I feel that the hon.gentleman could also accept my challenge I issued last Friday as well, and be a man and accept my challenge to the other end. l1R. NEARY: MR. W. ROWE: MR. NEARY: I accept the han. gentleman's apology. A humble apology. A humble apology to the House, Sir, and I would hope that in future that the han. gentleman would be very, very cautious about throwing challenges across this han. House. Mr. Speaker, MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, on a point of order. MR. NEARY: - no wonder the han. gentleman. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MORGAN: On a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! If there is a valid point of order I obviously will hear the hon. gentleman. I would point out that it is not unknown for points of order to be raised in order to give hon. members an opportunity to enter into debate, and this has been known on rare occasions to happen on both sides of the House, and I think it usually leads to more heat than light. But the han. gentleman being aware of that then obviously he has the right to raise a point of order. 482

~!arch 14, 1978 Tape 166 PK - 2 MR. MORGAN: A point of order:that the hon. gentleman pointed out may be correctly so that I misled the House,not intentional!~ last Friday. At the same time I would like to bring to the House's attention that the hon. gentleman also misled the House of Assembly,whether intentionally or not,by a statement about myself, and my colleague the Minister of Fisheries involving the Premier, which I have asked him to either substantiate or deny or apologize to the House of Assembly as well. point of order, ~. Speaker. That is my MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

It would appear that the point made by the hon. gentleman fell within the general species defined a few moments ago. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR.NEARY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also, Mr. Speaker, on Friday when I started to get into my few brief remarks on this vote of non-confidence I made reference at some length to the media, about the reporting of this hon. House. My remarks, Sir, were not meant to tar all members of the press gallery or of the media with the one brush. I zeroed in particularly, Sir, on the CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation which receives $500 million a year of taxpayers money.

And, you know, Mr. Speaker, out of all of the important information that I pryed out of the ministers on Friday, that I squeezed out of the ministers- and I had five ministers up giving the House very valuable information, Sir~when I stepped outside of the House a reporter from the CBC approached me and said,"Mr. Neary, could we do an interview with you?" And I said, "Yes, of course.

I presume you want to talk about some of the information, for instance,the kind of information that was brought out that the Minister of Fisheries and the Minister of Mines and Energy and the Minister of Finance beeween them had left millions of dollars on the table in Ottawa that should be now used in this Province, that has been left in Ottawa because they are too lazy to take the initiative and go and negotiate agreements 483

~!arch 14, 1978 Tape 166 PK - 3 ~. NEARY: with the Government of Canada, and the Xinister of Forestry and Agriculture, millions of dollars left on the table in Ottawa that should be now in use in this Province to create employment for Newfoundlanders .11 I thought that was a very important factor, Sir, especially when ministers were put on the spot and practically admitted that this was correct. The Minister of Mines and Energy, for instance, I charged MR.. PECKFORD : Yes, but (inaudible). MR. NEARY: I charged the Minister of Mines and Energy with gross negligence. MR. W. ROWE: And properly so. MR.

NEARY: And properly so, Sir, in not taking the initiative to go and negotiate with the hen. Xr. Cullen, the Federal Minister of Employment and Immigration,to negotiate a deal whereby the Government of Canada would help finance the cutting of the wood on the Lower Churchill to clear the site. Xy information, Mr. Speaker, from my usual reliable source leads me to believe that there is money available, and if it cannot be obtained for that particular project it can be obtained for another make-work project in this Province. MR. PECKFORD: No~ MR. NEARY: Yes, Sir, that is so. --~ .. ·--MR.

PECKFORD: You do not know what you are talkin!l; about. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have it from the horse's mouth, and I am not talking about the hon.the Premier. MR. W. ROWE: That is the other end of the horse. 484

March 14, 1978, Tape 167, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: That is the other end of the pony we are talking ~bout. Mr. Speaker, the situation is that ministers have been too lazy, they have been incompetent and negligent in putting forward proposals and plans to Ottawa .. Now I thought that was very important but when I was approached by the CBC reporter, invited to go an do an interview, you know, Mr.

Speaker - and not only that, but after getting the Minister of Consumer Affairs,who was hove off in his seat like King Tut. who would not, and the Premier should listen to this, when I asked the Minister of Consumer Affairs what Mr. Mullaley's position was, and everybody knows who Mr. Mullaley is, he is the gentleman who owned Affiliated Marine Metals, who is now in financial trouble, who collected the car wrecks around Newfoundland, who took the dollar off the licences of every person in Newfoundland who has a licence - that dollar went to Mr.

Mullaley and his company - I discovered during cross-examination of the minister the other day that Mr. Mullaley is now on the government payroll. And, Mr. Speaker, I asked the Minister of Consumer Affairs to tell me what Mr. Mullaley's job wa~ and the Minister of Consumer Affairs told me that it was none of my business. Mr. Speaker, look at page 38 of the Auditor General's Report. Just give it to me there. Does the hon. Premier realize what his minister told me, told the House, told the members of this side of the House? Members were told it was none of their business what Mr. Mullaley does.

"Inaequate control over expenditure relating to the abandoned vehicle collection amd disposal programme." I will deal with that shortly 485 ...

March 14, 1978, Tape 167, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: but the point I want to make now is that that was a most significant point. I understand the gentleman is now, he and his colleague who was in this company, are now watching the cars. They are hired on as watchmen. They are down at the. Octagon where the cars are stockpiled working for the Department of the Environment as watchmen. But the minister tells me it is none of our business.

Now, here we are in Opposition asking questions of the government, trying to get information so that the media can pass this information out to the people, and this particular individual who wanted to intervie~., me said, "Oh no, we do not want to interview you about any of these matters, any of these facts that carne out; we would like to have a talk to you about the challenge that was issued by the Minister of Tourism." I said,"You have to be kidding!

You have to be kidding!" I said,"Is that the most important thing that happened in the House today?" "Well, as far as I am concerned" the lady said, "that is the most important." I was tempted to say, then why do you not go back and finish your high school graduation book but I was a little more kind than that, I said I would not dignify - AN HON. MEMBER: They have your number. MR. NEARY: I said I would not dignify that comment. I would not dignify it with a comment.

I would not dignify it with a comment, and I said to the young lady, "If you want to' discuss matters of importance to the people of this Province, then I will be very glad to go and do an interview," and I declined the interview. So, Mr. Speaker, we can see the attitude of the CBC towards this House. And, You know, Mr. Speaker, just to reinforce my argu:ment about tl'le ne\vS medii', and 486

March 14, 1978, Tape 167, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: about the opinion - not all of them now, I am not tarring everybody-with the same brush, there are some pretty good people in the press gallery, there are pretty good people working in news rooms all over this Province, but they are not all good. MR. F.B.ROWE: fired. MR. NEARY: That is why he had one That are not all good, Mr. Speaker, and that is why the han. gentleman had one of them fired. The han. the Premier could not take it. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: Shame! Shame! Shame!

The han. the Premier took to the television one night and got a little bit of a rough time, a rough ride from the Here and Now crew and the next day the Minister of Transportation and Communications,who is now Minister of Tourism,took to the airwaves protesting to the whole world, to the CRTC about the way the Premier was treated on that programme, and I am told, Sir, that within fifteen minutes after that programme ended the lady was fired. I do not know if it is correct or not, I can only tell the House what I have heard. AN HON. MEMBER: Shame! MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker - MR. NEARY: Here we go again! MR.

MORGAN: - on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Point of order. ~.R. MORGAN: The han. gentleman is referring to a programme on CBC but that is not my concern. My concern, Mr. Speaker, is that the charge has been made that I am responsible for the firing of an employee of CBC. That is totally untrue! It is totally incorrect and I would like for the han. gentleman to 487

March 14, 1978, Tape 167, Page 4 -- apb MR. MORGAN: retract that statement because I was in no way involved with any dismissal or any employee of CBC in regards to leaving the employ of CBC. 488

March 14, 1978 Tape 168 PK - 1 ~. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is not a point of order, Sir. MR. MORGAN: It is a very important point of drdeF· ~- NEARY: That is just a matter of a difference of opinion. I did not accuse the bon. gentleman of anything. The hon. gentleman is so sensitive, Si=, so sensitive these days. Your Honour know I did not make any such charges. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The matter is one of a difference of opinion, and not a matter on which the Chair can rule. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, thank you for your protection, Your Honour. But, Mr.

Speaker, it is a matter of great concern and worry to me, Sir, the things that go on in the media in this Province, and this is not a vendetta against the media. Nobody, I suppose,gets treated better by the media in this Province than I do myself. But I am very concerned about the attitude of some of the media, especially the print media, The Evening Telegram I am referring to specifically in this Province,and a column written by Mr. Ray Guy.

And I am just trying to find one here, Sir, as an example of why members of this House should be concerned about the kind of stuff that is allowed to go into print in this Province. I read one, it was the last one - what was The Weekend, the 11th? MR. W. ROWE: Yes. MR. NEARY: The 11th. Well let us see if I can find it here, referring to my hon. friend, the Leader of the Opposition, and the Premier of this Province. "Good Times Moores and Wedding Cake Man Rowe". Listen to this, Mr.

Speaker,"Newfoundland politics needs the biggest gutting, purging, fumigating, scourging, disinfecting, and shovelling out that you could ever imagine." MR. MORGAN: Ask him to run in the next election. 489

~rch 14, 1978 Tape 168 PK - 2 :-!R. NEARY: "Yet in a matter of months-they are talking about new members coming into the House- Yet in a matter of months they are as bad as the rest 1 two-faced, cock strutting, grab-alls. On the evening following a new candidate's declaration to stand for election he should be taken down behind a fish store and a splitting knife held to his throat." Sir. Mr. Speaker, just. imagine. Just imagine, Just see if I can find something by ~lr. ~-Tick Collins, that great freedom fighter. See if we can find a couple of quotes from him.

I will tell the House why I am making my point now in a minute, Sir. "All these people should be fired because according to Premier Moores they make it too difficult." Let me see,that is not the one I am looking for, which brings me -"Musical chairs will not improve Cabinet". I could tell the hon. gentleman what Mr. Collins thinks of the han. gentleman who got flicked out of the Department of Transportation. MR. MORGAN: It does not oother me at all. MR. NEARY: this weekend. Let me see what the han. gentleman was talking about Let me see if I can get some quotes. I have all kinds of them here, Sir.

I have gone back a year or so and it would make you sick to your stomach when you read some of this stuff, Mr. Speaker, but the Rouse should be very concerned about it. It says, "It does not look too hard a job.You only have to wait until your man is calling the fellow on the other side of the House a red-faced · babOon whose mother was married to a guttersnipe." Mr. Speaker, would you think you would read that? That is not a Communist pap·~r you are reading that in, Sir. Is that the kind of a gentleman, Your Honour, is sitting in the Chair? Is that the kind of fentleman the member for Exploita (Dr. Thomey) is?

Is that the kind of a gentleman the han. Minister of Education is? 1 When you get up the first time it is what they call your virgin or maiden speech. You can only have that once so it does not matter what you say,the main thing is to get up and say it. Most of them - look, listen to this, Mr. Speaker, just listen. You are 490

March :!.4, 1978 Tap.e 168 1'K - 3 ~II:. Neary: talking about Your Honour now. And they are talking about: all members on this side: _They are t:alking about: ;n.y friend, my academic from t:he Universit:y down t:here. Just: list:en co this, "!-lost of them would s~ea1 t:he left: eye out of your head and come back for the right one without so much as a blush." :1R. !-fORGAN: MR. ~<\RY: We all wonder why politicians are somewhat Mr. Speaker, do you think that t:hat: is being published in a ::.lewioundland netvspaper, Sir ?

"You not:ice their kn~ckles and you will see that they are as hard and as scaley as a horse's hoof." MR. NOtAl~: A horse's what? MR. NEARY: Hoof. Then they go down -"But after His Honour left, young Billy Rowe had Frank Mo~res squirming around in his seat like ~he underwear was on back to f ront: to front." HR. W. ROWE: I agree wich that. MR. ~'EARY: "But both sides of the House", he says , "':1as a collection of nasties. You should go and hear them some tillle. 49:1

::arch 14, 1~78 Tane 169 'E:C - 1 ~:'R. ~TEARY: The reporters '•ould say, for exa111ole, •..rhen the han. member fo1: Bollix Rock gets up to speak they cannot stand him as t-ad as ~e is - ~:a, t!1ey can· stand him as bad as !'!e is hecause ~-·hile he is on ::is feet i!: reans the hen .. -r.ember for '7indy Gut ~~as to ~ :eep \is ~ab s:--tut .. 11 ?eautiful scuff for ~he young children~ Sir~ for y·our c:,.il~ren anri :nir..e ~o ".::z learning J.n this Province!

Great! 3eautiful stuff to ~e l~nrninz a..._:out the highest court in the land. -:"·.e·' are talkinJJ: about det:Jocrncv and the only institution that is left upholdir..g democracy. •·T~at television :Oroadcast on ':onday ,,.as for the Throne Speech which is 1-rhen the government says 1vhat it intends to do for the rest of the ;rear. ~;ell, according to ''hat ,.Je heard it is not ;>,oing to 'Je :erJ much :• Let us see ,.,hat else he says. ~as ~oozed at<ay - lis ten to IJhat they are saying about the C:.on. the Premier and the government t- So it '•as ,.,ith the government o1hich '1as boozed away the effort and opportunity that should have !!One into CJuilding up jobs for the people of this Province who cannot find t-Tork~' 'i:'!en he goes on and he enns up : ''lut it l".ay take r.ore t~u:m thuc.nin r>: ann clapping 01ill'l Rat;e to protect the fis:1et!".en from the r1ecision of the ~:oores r--overnment <Jho lvould seel:l to !-:no1v little about the fishery. '1L l~.

II. ;:o~'t: I thin!: he is ri~~t r. o·~, :-1in.l you . ~~ow, ,.r. Speaker, I mention t':ese f:-::; exce'!"n .. ~ just to s~O't-7 t~e :--.on. r.1er::!:Jers of' the T'!'ouse, ~ir, ".''";.at is ~R.??eni!l.g in this !'rovince. ~1'r.

S!'~~!:er, I "·7tlnt to S ~'!!.·y th:.s, t:::".t! l ~ir, t:orr.unism -:/:"tic::. r1or.li!tates no~1 about on.~-ha!f, a~out 55 ~er cent of t:te :"Opulation of the ~.;·orl ( '!, ~.,~en they go in, for inst."1.nce; anfl t~e ~' manage to take over a country li1 ·.e Cu~a, they i=ediately ;cart to ta::~ tt!e people out of Cuba, take the1:1 a•ray to :-•osc:m-.•, take there to :Cussia, take them to t'le r;ommunist c01mtries to 1-,r::!in~Jash them. .~nd t':e · Comi!Iu11.ists co,·m in the Unit~.l States and the Conl\unist Part•; ac!"os~ 492

· ~arch 14, 1073 ""C - 2 ~3.. ~ i EA~.Y: C:anada - and '"e sm? a little tin~e of it here recently at our o1m university - they are taken a1.ray and t!::ley are shown hmv to undert"ine de=:ocracy, :101·• to unden:tine the legislatures, nO~T to uncle mine politicianS. chis is ·;hat it is all :about. Communis t:s train peo?le - t~ey ...,ave schools - t~ey ta!.::e ~eople f!:'ot :-· a ~r.ist countries an C :,ri'l. ;; chen. to t :tese sc:--..ocls '3_r._r_ t ~ ~,.i" train ~he!'l on ~o":·l to underrtine Cer:-:ocr.?.cy ~n~ taJ ~. e ov~r a cou:-ttr?. You ~r:noH, 'fr.

SpeaJ..·.er, I have read quite a ~it about ;~"hat t~ey teach ir. t=-.ese achools, and I kno1.: "CUite a .,it ,bout Socialisn am! a"Jout ,.~!!'.munisl:'t, and, Sir, 1.;hat I !1ave seen in the socialist ~octrine, i:1 the r:o!"l!lunist !loctrine, that t~is is "lab~r talk cor.>parec to ,.That •re s ee rig:1t M.ere in our OT.m ne,vs!la!lers, And it is ahout tine, ''r. Sreaker, that t!'ley starte~ a little sel f-:Uscinli:le.

I"' not, Sir, the~· ,,re goir.g to uncle !':'line tM.e onlv institution, the only ~ull;r ark of :~!:',oc:::-ac:-· that ~.re have left, namely the Legislature, the House of ~-ssernbly, If people do not lil:e us they can kic!~ us out. If people do not like our policies they can criticize the~, condemn them. !!ut, Sir, these are the very same people who talk about character assassination, ~~o tal!: about !:lringing personalities into things. It does ~ot ha~pen in this House, Sir. That is a fallacy. That is a rcyth.

The people in t~e press gallerv uo here over my shoulder are there for one reason only and that is to nake s·~re t!1at · the information, the things that hao p cn i..._ this Eouse get out to the people, the facts, thP- infornaticm :;:et out to the 'Jec!lle. '"r. r;'lllr-Ihan ~ave !l spe2ch to :Cotarv. The _,t~cr ~ay it ':\':'as re-publi s:1ed i:l ci1e !laily ~; e': JS. I read it. -: ~ e !!":P. -::1 t"'\tt:r-asc of the r.edia is to g:~t out info=ation, E!a5 Your t:lonour ev~r sane home in the evening and turned on his television to get a report en '•hat happened in this Han. House during the day?

You have ~.ro CBC reporters every day sitting up in this gallery being !laid by the taxpayers of this country, tPo,and what do you get? T\;enty or thirty seconds on television. \-:'hat c'c thev have t~Vo uo there "or? 493

"2.rc~ ll., 1?73 I"--3 r"ley could send over a clerk <-Tho cou:!.d do the sane th'.ng could t\1ey not. Is t:,.at re1?orting t~e Fouse, Sir? 494

-..a=C::l l4,1J76 but I consider it to be cost ~~o~t~~t Jcc~~s~ if we just i~~or~ it it is ;;;oing to get worse. Tire name callil'lg by tue t11o i10.u. gentle-:1an t~L::.t I just referreu to, Sir, i1as got comiJl .. tely out of i1a.1:d and I think it is about til:le tiliiC c:_e .1et:s rleciia i.=lpo.;ec,i .a lit~le bit of. self discipl~:c. -=·~'"- t~1e7 cooK. ~ look .::.~ t ... ~e re~v=ti .... ;; in i:ae ."'le.:J.C. o£ ~.J.t:.l~ :rou ~1lay ~ u.st ~ive a fellc~; a £lie.:.", I .~sve often tio~ it L.J.ysel£ 1 but t.~lis se~1ZU3 to b~ the.: t::ling t~-:at t; .. t:.y J.,;.•ell on ..

Sir, r::..ot the facts, ilo t 0 etti~~ c:j,e ir.£or~atio;.:. out :.:o ..:~ll! ~~o~l~ of t-.li.:i Pro-.;i:..:.c..;:. -·~·..i I tf'.:.ir~k t~1~ C~C, tilC:. C._1~aiar.~. ilro.:u.lcas.:in:; Corparatiou,witich •:1as .::iCl.~.C up by .. .;].l)l'!.O:.l...i..: · fJui.nette ~e ~ ii'l::itrument of nation~ ~urpose S~"'lou.lci ;;ec 'uack ~o being an inst:::u:::~eut of national purpose u.nd C.'"-tional unity il.Ud not s~•eak their little im.tue:.:dos into their news storiell like they have cione so often from this O.on. House. That is about t:te vilest sin t~t t;1ey can couait.

Sir, :..n order to -~a~~<! :1 :!l.:.aber lool~ '-'"-.;. t:t.:y sue~ in a little bit of editorali~in&. I have seen it an~ I ;laVe -oeell the victi.Ia of it and so ha:> every otiter merr.ber of t'1is .-iouse. Tney :la-.-e .;ot to ;1et in t~eir little snide reuark, not a factu~i news sto::::,-11{i::.'icil they c;re sup];:Osec.l to be pUlllpin;;; out, uti.r,.; r<o.J.W. ;Jy w.1 =·•ouncer . ..,i1o never sees it,.,roo.:.ul:;-~..:,:=il it i;; ,lui: ia fr..:..at 0£ :1.kl. 1Jut they ~1avo: JUC co ~;c i...-"l t:l~~r li~t:le il!.r.u~l.!~o co try .J.l2.~ ~-,la.~e SUJJJ.t:0ody loo~ Jc.iJ..

I tio ~10.: ;..!.~0~ .. ; · : .~..;,.t c.:~.n ue ~..:.o .. u=: ~·:r. Spt!~er, I re.ill~r .Jo .. 1.ot, I ....:. . ..l r:dlly conceru~J. abouc t.1e uewsmeo. t.Lewselves. Cl(!;J..l up tneir act cu1u if t.1ey are c;cir,g to report this !louse, report it. ;-ir. Speal~er, l:ne real. <.:anger L1 ..c:;at t .. 1.ey are cloing now is t~1at it is up to t~H~ incliviciuals up ti1ere ln t.;e ~ress ;,>al.:..::..-y to piclc out t:,., ite;:; that t:-:~ey ,;ant to report from 495

7..!-~e .'""Jolt-.!. t:· h~ !~ouse .:irui ii t.Lt::y Uo u.ot li~~ tl.lt colol.!r of your . ~air, i£ c~l~Y Uo noc like your politics, tr1ey Jo not. :i~e: your reli;;io~~. t!1ey ao not like tt.i.s about you, t:1ey Jo not li:-:e t'1at about you,can tn.:y sabota 6 e you? iiecause the cian~er is cna~ ci1<oy could. pick t.le itcLI that ti1ey want to :report an<i that is t.1e real C:arL;;-:r of it,Sir, t~1.e real ~\reakness of it anJ t~1a t is 1.-v'ily I a..t i.i.l favour o£ teleVi.si:I.6, :3;>~cially c:lc Or&l ~Ue8~ioll P:ricu L>f t~li::i :~ou. ::.cu::;..:; i:ll.'"H.i tnen t~l~ ..10out soc.e o£ t .. ta ~roOlem~ o£ t~li::i ~rovi.:.1.ce.

I _._:-J. ~tot ~.~air-.~ ·':O Ueen on : ~_y ,_"J.inci uow- for a ~ooQ oany years. ~·ears iu t.1.i..s ~1.ou. i-iO'..l~~ ancl I :Lave s~eu a lot o£ t~ti::.c;;-3 .li.F~~~l, .::.r.d I :1av-:: .seen a lot uf :.:e.t. )~rs ~et ~:1e '((nifc Uriveh i~·lcc t;l~r.1, I t.liuk ~il<it i.; t"'rrible, terr::.ble. I 1.rould uot l<:t l:ly chiltlren read it. ?it. Speaker, ou Ftid<>y before the Hous~ rose r.e~l~ct in ne~ot:iatin2; auU reuegctiatL""1£ ..:~r~~.!.r a~r-=:e::::il.'-n~s with c:1e Government of Canada.

AnJ as I said iu t.ie be3inninc; "'i1en I :; tilrteti tnis af teruoou, there are :•ill ion.; am.! million:; u f Jollars left ou the Otta~oo· CI table, Sir. i.";;. i1acl a..;. c::;.:<>;,,1Jle of ti1at, Sir, on :Criclay, 110 later c;Jan Fri..;ay iiL t~;e ,,o.-,. •lOUS"'iu'le of C1te ;;;;.;,i.;ter of Fisi1eries got up t;1e best way ;,., .:aula and tri"d co ~c:..f.:&1U h.iLlsalf. ~ie u1acie a vt::.ry '~eak. U.efc:. ~ ct:: iu Gty ~t:· .Lnion, Sir. An<l lo a..•d behold, ;.:r. Speaker, I believe t,;;: ;ainister, I hop" t.~e tilini:;c2r will be t:1e first to aclini t 496

:larch 14, 1978 Tape 171 ~ :R. NEARY: that the honorable gentleman was '"'ron g. Jack n a r s h a 11 ~1 . P . , P . C . , ,,, h o represents Humber - St. Barbe - St. George, Jack 11arshall rose in the. House of Asser.1bly - .''q. J . · ~:ORGA ~ :: di str i cts. '' R • ~~ E .U. P. Y : Atj HON. l·lEi'iBER: :1R. 11EARY: You do not know your federal Hu~ber - St. Bar~e - St. Seorge - St. Georae- St. '3ar be. f, I 1 r i <J h t ! . ·1 K!l. v·: s am e t h i n (] ~ rose by any other name.

Jac k 1 ·~ arshall t·!.P . , P.C., rose i n the House of Parliament yesterday jurinn the oral nues~ion period and put a question to tile f ederal 'iinister of Fisheries, t h e h on . R om eo L e i3 1 a n c . ~~ n d t h e h on . i·! r . ' ~ a r s h a 1 1 ,, s k e d · 'r . LeBlanc what the Government of Canada ~as qoin~ to-do to help the poor fishermen in newfoundland who had l os! ge ar in recent storms, what the Government of Canad~ was going to do~o replace gear that was lost by the fishermen in storms and otherwise? And anybody who watched television last night would see the sincere ans 1-1er that '·lr.

Le!31anc gave ~- ~r. :· ~ arshall, and 11r. narshall ackno1~ledged it, seemed to be quite satisfied with the answer and seemed to be very djspleased with the Provincial Government because the answer that Mr. LeGlanc qave was this 1 and I am only going to summarize what - I do not have his exact wording in front of me. ~ r.

Le Dlanc said that the Government of CanaJa would be glad to ~elp the poGr fishermen in ~ ewfoundland that lost ?ear and be gla d to repl ac? gear that \~as lost in recent storr.1s but this •.1as a Provincial matter, c~me under the jurisdiction of the Provincial Govern­ ment and that his government had not heard a peep,not a sound from the Provincial Government, not a request for gear re­ placement. 497

!larch 14, 1378 Tape 171 J ~·! - 2 i·iR. NEARY: whom And then- i1r. :1arshall, a Torv have a great deal of respect for, rose again to say,is it a fact that you have not had a request fran the Province of ~ewfo~ndland, from the provincial Govern­ ment for a gear replacement pro~ram for sane ~ind of an a 'J r e un en t? '·i r . L e B 1 an c sa i d that i s r: u i t e true~ and t he r i·1r. ilarshall said ':tell if you did have a request •·•auld :•::u look upon it favourably? ·~r. LeUlanc said he ··t ould, inGeed he l·tould, ~r.d then i·lr, ~iarshall asked him,.oJell·,~,ill you take the initiative? 'lr.

Government of Canada, ''r. Federal '!inister of Fisheries, down there they will not come and ask you~ wil} you go and ask them if they will take a hand out if you ~ive it to them? Andhe said I will do the ~est I can, and that is a pr!tty tricky situation. './hen the natter cor:1es unc!er the Provincial Government here in Mewfoundland they should be taking the initiative, they should be goinq up to Uncle Ottawa and saying,took:we want a gear replacement program, And up to this moment, up to yesterday,the Minister of Fisheries had not approached the Government of Canada or the hon. Romeo LeBlanc.

They were the ones who had it in their Throne SpFech five years ago. ., :(. ~I EJl RY: And they have h'd it in their Throne Speech no•.'l for the last five :tears, so I am reminded by ::1'/ colleague here. And the same thing ap~lies, Sir, to the agricultural agreement that I referred to the other day, millions of dollars left on:.the table in Otta·.~a; cost sharing agreement with respect to fisheries,including boat building, federal subsidies anJ so forth. 498

;·arch 14, 1978 Tape 171 o:·! - J ~"R. NEARY: And, :•r . Speaker, : ::en I zeroed in on the ii inis ter of 'lin es and Ener gy for '"is neql ig ~nce in not getting he lp to cut the ti mbe r on the sit~ ·of the Lo•,ter Churc hill. ' l o1~,I 3- m goinq to 3S ~ tne ·: ini ster of Agricultural who uas in his seat a few m o ~ ents aa o. dh O see~s to have Jlsaooeared, ~ut when the " inis ~P r s are not In t ~ ! ~ ors e ;;he hon .

Pre(\lier speak for tl1ese mi nister 's , >ver i n '! ~· ·t Brt.:nSI·dck , Si r, the Go ver nment of ·:e•ov Sruns •Jic k,and I ~el i e•1 e the ~o vern m ent of nova Sco t ia , have neg otiate d aaree Ments with t he Government Qf Canada for assistan ce, for su poort, fe j eral support to de a 1 with the spruce bud~1o rrn pr ob 1 em. They nave successful ly neaotiated and requested su ooort, fin~ncial support From t he ~ove rn ment of Canada to try and do some­ t hing about the in fected woo d, t he ~ood that has been affecte d in t he 0 i la o.-iti : ~e provinces by the sp ruce bu d~tor m , i 1r.

Soeake r . !s there anot her province of Canad a\and do no t ca r e what ~a rt of Canada you are ta lkinq about , t hat ha s as much ~ amage o? from the spruce budw«;1r m as 1~e hav e here in ilewfoundl and 0 And I am going to as k the hon . the Pre mi er now , in t he absence of the 11 inister of Ag r icultu r al , what this qovernment has done in the way of solicitino 499

March 14, 1978, Tape 172, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: financial support from the Government of Canada either to cut this wood 1to help build woods roads to get at the wood,or to subsidize the cutting of the wood. What has this government done? Have they done anything? HR. ROUSSEAU: (Inaudible) but we have gotten half of it. MR. NEARY: I •llill just yield, 11r. Speaker, for the hen. minister. I am trying to get information, Sir, so that I hope it will filter out to the people. I am satisfied to yield and then carry on with my speech. MR. SPEAKER(Collins): Labour and Manpower. MR.

ROUSSEAU: The hen. the Minister of In November of 1977 the four ministers~the four minister responsible for manpower, met in Halifax to try and come up with"a formula for the four provinces to go to Mr. Cullen, the Minister of Employment and Immigration in an attempt to secure some of the Canada Works money, the job creation monies of 15 per cent over the minimum wage,and come up with a number of ideas in respect to jobs like the hen. member refers to. One of them was the spruce budworm infection. Another one was the Gull Island cutting. Another one was the subsidy on small boats.

And each province had individual ones there. We went together to a meeting with Mr. Cullen on November 16 in Ottawa. Mr. Cullen would not at that time give us any indication that he would put public works money towards this thing but he would consider it in the new budget year. In other words, that the federal works money, the make-work projects would not be 100 per cent like they are now. Obvious!y there are certain problems as far as he is concerned and we can appreciate 500

March 14, 1978, Tape 172, Page 2 -- apb MR. ROUSSEAU: that, but some of this money should be put into job creation projects like this. The four ministers went together again tQ Victoriain February. The Manpower Ministers again met with Mr. Cullen and brought the same points that all . . the ten provinces agreed on. We m~de every effort to secure some of that mone y for that. A specific t y pe, that was one of the specific ones and if the han. member would like to have the presentation by the four Atlantic ministers at the November 16th. meeting with Mr.

Cullen tabled in the House I would be only too prepared to do so. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I thank the han. minister for giving the House that little piece of information but really what I am trying to zero in on is whether or not any assistance has been sought from DREE to help build woods roads to get at this timber or to subsidize the cutting of the timber.

Perhaps the minister now who has returned to his seat can tell me if Newfoundland has attempted to get a similar agreement to the one they have in New Brunswick and in Nova Scotia whereby the federal government will assist in the cutting of this timber that is affected by the spruce budworm, and we have millions and millions - well, hundreds of thousands of acres that are affected. Could the minister give us that piece of information? Or have we withdrawn any requests? I will yield and then I will carry on, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Collins) : The hon. the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. MR. MAYNARD: Mr.

Speaker, there has not been any late agreement signed that we are aware of with Nova Scotia or New Brunswick to salvage budworm ki~led timber . The federal Minister of Manpower and the federal Minister in charge of F9restry, Mr. Marchand , 501

March 14, 1978, Tape 172, Page 3 -- apb MR. MAYNARD: have indicated that possibly Canada Works money would be made available to the Provinces, all four of the Atlantic Provinces, to help salvage some of the timber or to carry out more intensive forest management practices related to combatting the spruce budworm in the short and long-term. The four provinces are now working with the federal people to try to come to an agreement as to how much money the Federal Manpower Department will make available and under what terms and conditions they will make it available.

As soon as that is finalized, if it is, we will be reporting to the House. As far as the DREE agreement is concerned, we have a DREE agreement under which we are building access roads and a large majority of those roads are being built into infested areas to assist the companies and sawmill operators, the two paper companies and sawmill operators to get into heavily infested areas as a matter of salvage. We have been doing that for a number of years. MR. NEARY: A very worthwhile piece of information,Mr.

Speaker, and I will come bac~ l~er although I do not know if my hon. friend is completely aware of the fact that in New Brunswick they do have a DREE agreement and have had one for years now. MR. MAYNARD: MR. NEARY: A DREE agreement? In connection with building woods roads to the timber that is affected by the spruce budworm. MR; MAYNARD: Well, so do we. That is what I was just saying. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, ours is a general agreement, I am talking about special assistance , 502

March 14, 1978, Tape 172, Page 4 -- apb MR. NEARY: special funding from the Government of Canada to cut the hundreds o£ thousands of 503

Ta:>e l7J !J-1 eords of uood, prohably millions of eords, 'mr.r'lreds of t!-lousan:-ls of cords t:,at are affected by the S"[lruce 'Jud~1otn. But I '·>ill cor::e . 'Jaek to t hat later, Sir, "because I >rant to '"lave ?. ~e<~ '.Jor<ls a!::out t~e SteD::e!!.'lil12 !.. i ~_ erboarc1. ~ill ,, efore I t:-1. ~ :e '":"""-1 3ee.t :.n ~ ! ~ .; ~ :-:t tOl.at ?roject. ~ut 1Jefore I ~et off Ptta~.,a ..

Sir, and ~ .. efore I get of~ ;:-,y e.ttack on the '1ad ':Jlood, t~. e serious relations'-lip t~1at e:d.sts :,etm!an the r:-o,rernl!lent of this Province and certai~ :-~inisters i~ ~i:e r"; overn~ent of !":anacia, t1efore I ~et off of t!-:at I ·:-a.r..t to :-.:1i.Se a~e ::.ore ~atter, Sir, t:tot I t:--..ink is ver? sigr.i ~ic~nt, t:-::'t :;~ ·. o ~ l!. : up by ministers tvhen they lash out and att:~c 1 < t!"le r:ove:cnme:1t of r:~:ta?.a ar:.d rniniste!"S in the ~overnr.:ent of t~e nation .. t :<e '"i!".ister of "an~cmer and Inrlustrial !:'.e;t.ations - and I am not quite sure if it is the present ~inister or the orevious ~inister. ~~o ~ .. iaS the ~~inister of '·'anpoT:rer bac,·: in 107F, t''!.e '!""all of 1'77~7 I believe it ~;as the present: 'linister of .\gric:.>lture (~'r. :•aynar~). ,.!~11 it really does not mal~e any difference, Sir, because one or the other - I be~ vour par~on?

Yes. Sir. ~ ~ell, '!r. Speaker, let me fi.rst of all ;"" ive ':1"'.e ·-:-ause t"-: e scenario of t:~at !las ;,_,3.nn~nc~ in c.or.:"'lec:tion -:;it .. '!. the r;tces of rav on r ;r:la.rla ~-~or1~s projects i~ this rrovi.~ce .. The rat:~ of :>a~.' iTl this !»rovince :1s nell as in t'1e other ,ro".rir.ces of rar.aCa, the rate of pay is the ninimum ~~age plus fifteen per cent. ~he ninister says that is correct.

I c~eckerl this aut only about ten minutes before the !louse onenerl this afternoon, a len?' distance phone call ':.ct1.;een Confederation 'luildin .l\ and l' tta1•a, sever;;]. long dis ~ar-.ce c::~lls I hnve hac no,.,. 504

!c.pe 173 ':!' .. ::EAl..Y: I heard the other day, Sir- - and this is ·,;hat put it in ny mind - I have heard the ~li.nister of Tourisr.: C'r. ~'organ), I 1'ave heard one or t~m other ministers on the governr.:ent side l-,ellyac'1~ng a!:lout the rate of pay that is oaid to people uho c.re -.;orl·.ing: on (:anada ~·ort-s projects in this Provi':lce.

The ~- r irrL;ter of couris::: ('~r. ~: organ) especiall~r has ta~:en to t!l.e ~elevision and rariio en a number of occasions :,ellyachim; and coc.nlainir.g about t::e ~o:J rate of pay on Canada Hor:<.s projects in t:..is Province. ::ot~ if ~he r.inister wants to hear something the mi~ister better co~e in an~ take his seat because I have a fe•.-1 •·rords that may open up the '-,on. gentle~~n's eyes, ~!r. Speaker, and I O!ooe I will never '-,ear another pee~ out of the han. gentleman on this matter. "r.

Soe?..ker, is the "ouse a"'arc - and I ·.;ant to !'lal:e it clear ri,;"lt frnm t::e start t:.at t~ere •. ~as no negotiating on this ~articular matter, t:1ere -,,as no bargaining bacl: and forth, no negotiating between the feceral govern~ent and the Government of this Province on the rate of pay. HR. ROUSSEAU: Oh yes there was . ':o.there 1;as not, Sir. HiL ROUSSEAU: Oh yes there was . ~!R. :·lEARY: There was no negotiating, Sir. I, ~~r. Speaker, can tell the hon. gentleman there was no negotiatin~. 'T'he r-overnT:1ent of Canada took a decision.

The Government of Canada said, ''r~e are 30ing to,under our new programt:le, unrler our net~ strategy, under "the Canarla r.~orks profrl!.ml'1e ;;h:!.ch is ~oinc; to replace L II', t-;e ""'1lc li~:.e r:::o ~ay i:1 all the provinces the rrinirr.ulil '..;aze in the -1ifferent provinc~s plus fifteen per cent., . l-!r. Spe<"ker, hack in Octo'Jer of 1976 <:!V hon. friend, I believe, attended a meeting in Ottawa ~~hen this matter .vas raised. Think about it. :13.. ROUSSE.I\U: Jt coul:l well ':le. Yes,it coulrl well be. 1t r.ot onlv could ·~ell l)P. 1it is a 505

"arc.. 'I 14 . l':'i .

Tape !.73 -~ - 3 '"R. :::O::A'l'!: ~e ~ o~. ge ~tl eman atcencied a ~ee t!ng in Ot tawa alon g w.i.th various ot:her manpo1•·er mi!'-iS t ers E-:om across Canada co di scuss t~e ~ecr strategy of t he r.vvernment of Canac!a, co ti.iscuss - really i~ •.;as prior to t~e i ntroduction or: the t:: an~d a "-"or':s ? ::-ngra..-..>te . -:hat: ·as r.:hen. • c~o i::: er, 1:"17·: . ;:~at meecin P. n:nd c:-tey sai C, ' .. r ~ uinis i:Crs ~ t"O tr.. variou s :. r ovin ·c~s of Canada, ,.,e a re ~oing to c::an!!e our strate gy and :·e a.re ;;wing ;:c 1; rin:;r in a ne . .- p ro 1ra~e and ·.:e a re r,oi:1g to cal. i:.

Car.aca ~ :o r !: s - ;-..i.ng t!"lac :.ap? ened at t h at <"!eet i :"lg ··ms c~1a c =1-:a overn:r.ent of Canada said '!:lec ause oi c:,.e con cern in certa i n .-•. r eas, ce::--: ni!l r!!<>i.o:-.s 506

March 14, 1978 Tape 174 PK - 1 Mr. Nearv: because of the wage levels that were paid by LIP, because of the concern the Federal Government has decided that it might be wise, in their opinion, it might be wise to pay the minimum wage on Canada Works projects in the various provinces, and they later upped the ante by 15 per cent. And, Mr. Speaker, I am told" by my usual reliable source that there was no objection from this· Province, there was no objection. ~!R. ROUSSEAU: :!R. NEARY: That is not correct. That is correct, Sir. If it is not correct let the minister get up and straighten me out. MR.

ROUSSEAU: I will get up and straighten you up. This Province does not accept the federal government position - MR. NEARY: MR. ROUSSEAU: MR. NEARY: Just a min"lJ.te now! Just let me - Wait now! Just a minute now • Hy hon. friend is trying to straighten me out. gentleman - I want to make sure the hon. MR. ROUSSEAU: Federal works 1 the minimum wage plus 15 per cent. MR. NEARY: All right. Okay. Just let me put the question now to the hon. gentleman. First of all the hon. gentleman does not even remember being at the meeting. was at the meeting. MR. ROUSSEAU: When was the meeting? MR. NEARY: October 8, 1976.

I say the hon. gentleman And the question is this that I am putting to the hon. gentleman; not what happened since, not because there was flak, not because the people rebelled against the rate of pay they are getting in this Province, $ 2.50 plus 15 per cent, not that, what happened at that time when the minister and this government had an opportunity to say, no, Mr. Ottawa, no 1 Hr. Government of Canada we are not accepting that principle because it would discriminate against our workers. at that meeting in objection? Did the minister raise a voice 507

March 14, 1978 Tape 174 PK - 2 AN HON. MEMBER: No. MR. NEARY: That is the question, Sir, and I will yield and I will give the minister a chance to defend himself, and then I will come back and continue with my speech. MR. SPEAKER: :MR. ROUSSEAU: The han. Minister of Manpower and Labour. All I can say is this government's position an the minimum wage plus 15 per cent. It is our feeling that because of the uproar created by the provinces t hat the 15 per c ent was acided an to 1-1hat was originally intended to be the minimum 1-1age.

Our position is that the minimum wage plus 15 per cent, especiall y in light of increases in the unemployment insura~ce payments,are not conducive to taking the type of people we want off the unemployment roll, especially those 12,000 or 14,000 people who are tradesmen, who have no intention of working for the minimum wage plus 15 per cent. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the point I am making. My hon. friend now is having second thoughts. MR. ROUSSEAU: MR. NEARY: MR. ROUSSEAU: MR. NEARY: No 1not .now. The question I put to my han. friend - This has bothered me for a year.

The question I am putting to my han. friend is this: My han. friend attended a meeting in Ottawa, and there were other ministers there, and the minister, their counterpart, the federal minister said, Look, gentlemen, Mr.

Ministers from various provinces, we are going to change our strategy, and we are going to bring in a new programme, and this is going to be a Canada Work's programme, and we have decided because of our concern in some areas, because of the wage levels that were paid on LIP, we have decided that nroh11hlv the he!'t course of action to take is to ra~r the l!lini~urr. wage and then they later amended it and said, 15 per cent. Did the minister from this Province, did anybody from the Government of this Province stand up and say, Mr. Government of Canada, Mr.

Minister, we are not going to put up with this because we have a low minimum wage. We are not going to put up with it because our skilled workers will be forced to go to work for $2.50 plus 15 per cent. Did the minister 508

March 14, 1978 Tape 174 Pk - 3 MR. NEARY: get up and object to that2 Did he? MR. ROUSSEaU: The minister was ~nt at that meeting. MR. NEARY: The minister had the opportunity. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: Well~then the other minister; I do not care which one it was. It is still a representativ~ of this government. MR. ROUSSEAU: wnat I am saying is the position that we have, and it has been the position since the other minister was chere, and while I am here as well. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the position they have now adopted, because it is a popular issue now - MR.

ROUSSEAU: I have been savin~ that oubliclv for a vear. MR. NEARY: - it is a popular issue now, Sir, and that is why we hear the Minister of Tourism out bellyaching,and the news media lapping it up without checking their facts, without checking to see if there was any agreement, and the first knowledge I had of it - HR. ROUSSEAU: Mr. Speaker, could I ask the minister a question, a serious question. MR. NEARY: I am not a minister. I wish I were getting the salary. HR. ROUSSEAU: I am sorry.

Can the member honestly say that he has not heard me within the past, at least a year, maybe two, not make a statement about the minimum wage plus 15 per cent being non-sufficient to bring people back off the unemployment roll2 I wonder if he can say that? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it is not, that is not how you do things. You do not take to the open air line, you do not go on to score - MR. ROUSSEAU: Answer the question. MR. NEARY: - a few political brownie points. MR. ROUSSEAU: Come on now! MR.

NEARY: When you have the chance to do it is at the meeting in Ottawa, and they should have come back to this Province and said, Look: ;'!ewfoundland, you are going to be discriminated against, the 509

~ch 14, 1978 Tape 174 ?K - 4 Mr. Neat'y~ Newfoundlanders. But no, Sir, not a peep out o£ che minister that attended chat mee~_ng. l'!R. F. ROWE: :-lot a word. MR. NEARY: Not a word. Not a sound . Not an utterance . Not a peep. They just took it lying down. Now it is a popula r issue. Now chey all want co get on the bandwagon. Now they are all out bellyaching about it. Anybody can do ic now, Sir. But ~hen the time ~as opport~ne co do it,when : he ci~isce r was s~nd up to Ottawa at public expense co protect our rights chat is the SiO

March 14, 1978, Tape 175, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: time they should have done it and they did not do it, Sir. Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not want to be misunderstood. I am not saying that this government did it. I said right from the beginning, if hon. members will remember, that this was not negotiated, that this was a decision takeh by the Government of Canada. The Government of Canada put out feelers to their ministers, the provincial ministers,and the provincial ministers, especially from Newfoundland, did not react in the negative, they justtook it lying down. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: That is right, yes.

Now, in order to try to score a few political Brownie points they are out saying, Oh! the Government of Canada is discriminating against Newfoundlanders. Where were they when we needed them? Where were they in 1976 when we needed them? Slackers! Mr. Speaker, they could have done something about it prior to the announcement being made. They could have told the minister then they were dissatisfied with the wage levels that were going to be paid on Canada Works. I am sure my hon. friend has quite a few out in my hon. friend's district of Exploits.

And my hon. friend can look at his own administration as being too lazy, inept, incompetent and negligent to do anything about it when they had the opportunity. Now, Canada Works is in effect now. Now it is too late unless we can do it another year. They had the opportunity, the door was open. MR. RIDEOUT: doing the lobbying lately. MR. NEARY: We are the ones who are That is right, Sir. Now they are afaid that we are going to upstage them, 51:1.

March 14, Tape 175, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: we are going to take over the lobby and we are going to get all the credit. Well, Sir, I do not care who gets the credit as long as the people get a fair wage. And the government has been negligent in this regard, and that is not the only one, Sir.

The minister, whatever minister it was, whether it is the minister who sits here in this seat or the Minister of Agriculture, but whichever minister it was that minister botched it and botched it badly, just as the minister out to the seal fishery, the swiler, the great swiler - I thought he would be back in the House today - botched it, and had such a critical editorial written about him in The Morning News, the hon. gentleman who took off after he had his vicious row with the Premier over the extension to the hospital in Grand Falls, took off and went and sulked and pouted like a little baby and went and hid away.

The Minister of Tourism, if the hon.gentleman wants to do something about improving Newfoundland's image throughout the world with this gross error in judgement,I call it, when the Minister of Fisheries - I have to come back to my dear old friend again - told us in this House last year that the best treatment for Brian Davies, the best treatment for Greenpeace, the best treatment for the seal protesters was to ignore them. And the minister told us and the Premier told us they would ignore them because all they were looking for was publicity, and then they went and gave them the publicity they needed. And, Mr.

Speaker, we saw - look, I do not know if my colleagues agree with me on this or not but, Mr. Speaker, I have to say it even if I just say that this is a personal opinion. I am sure my hen. friend will forgive me if I say this is a personal opinion, my hen. friend the Leader I am talking about. 512

March 14, 1978, Tape 175, Page 3 -- apb MR. W.N.ROWE: Complete freedom. MR. NEARY: complete freedom. We have complete freedom. But, Sir, I have to say this, that when I saw that interview on television last night that I felt ashamed of my life as a Newfoundlander,ahd I am as good a Newfoundlander as anybody 'in this hon. House or in this Province, to see the way that one of our ministers was behaving. Mr.

Speaker, does your Honour realize, the members of the House realize, Sir, that throughout this world we are spending hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars every year of taxpayer's money to try to bring into this Province tourists. My hon. friend the Minister of Tourism,who goes berserk once in awhile in this hen. House - MR. MORGAN: time. MR. NEARY: You are berserk all of the The hen. gentleman is spending this year - how much money? How much money is the hen. gentleman spending on tourist advertising throughout the world? MR. MORGAN: Quite a lot. MR. NEARY: MR. MORGAN: MR. NEARY: Quite a lot.

The biggest money ever. Well, Sir, the Minister of Rural Development, the swiler, did more damage to the tourist industry in this Province the other night on television than the han. gentleman can undo with his $300,000 or so that he is going to spend this year, or $1 million dollars. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear ~ MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we had to try to get tourists into this Province 513 . '

March 14, 1978, Tape 176, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: and people throughout the world are looking at the likes of that! Laughing at us! They have become so hysterical and created such an emotional atmosphere that they are destroying our r~putation throughout the world. They would have been better off, the han. the Premier and the great swiler - I do not know if they are on speaking terms yet or not. I ~1derstand that they nearly had blows.

The next bout is not going to be between Spinks and Mohammed Ali, they are going to hire the stadium and it is going to be between our hon. friend the han. the Premier and the Minister of Rural Development. MR. FLIGHT: The Swiler. MR. NEARY: The Swiler. I do not know what name we can put on the - maybe the Colgate Kid. The Colgate Kid and the Swiler. Main bout at the stadium when she starts up again. But, Sir, it has done .an awful lot of damage.

I am told that there is a group right now in Europe from Newfoundland trying to sell fish and every place they go people are saying to them, We are not going to buy your fish;you are only barbarians over there, you are uncivilized. And how did this happen, Mr. Speaker? How did it happen? It happened, Sir, through an error in judgement.

Although, as I said before, the han. the Premier's heart may have been in the right place, and the hon. gentleman may have thought that he was going to score major political points,and he probably did with some people, but in the process, Sir, of doing that, of taking advantage for the moment, not looking ahead far enough, not looking ahead long range, they have created an awful image for Newfoundland in the international world and these people who are tryj ng to sell fish are told to go home, forget it. 514

March 14, 1978, Tape 177, Page 1 -- apb MR. W.N.ROY[E: MR. NEARY: They completely bungled it. They completely bungled the situation and now last night when I turned on my television, and I do not like these hon. gentlemen from Washington coming around here any more than anybody else, but I am sure that we can talk to them in a civilized manner. One of these gentlemen said - I saw him, he was quoted, he was standing there - I nave come here to Newfoundland with an open mind, and I believe the Minister of Rural Development was going to strike him with the gaff.

Sure we have an hen. gentleman who was put _away for less than that for a month, for thirty days. It would make you stop and think 1 would it not, Mr. Speaker? Make members stop and think about just what is going on in this Province. Mr.

Speaker, I am not going to belabour the subject because I want to say this, that this side over here - and I committed my han. friend and my party to maintaining a great seal industry in this Province - we are not going to cro off and make fools of ourselves; we are going to make it a real sealing industry by processing the pelts and the skins and the meat right here in this Province.

It would have been far better for the administration if they had taken that money that they spent in posh hotel rooms - 180 pounds or $180 a day and so forth and so on, and the best bistros wining and dining people - it would have been far better, Sir, if they had set up a processing plant in this Province and then let us go off and try to market out product. I am sure we would have no problem to sell the products. My hon. friend from Nain knows. I have been up and visited my hon.friend and saw some of the things that the native population can do w:i.th 515

March 14, 1978, Tape 177, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: seal skins, with soap stone and so forth, manufacture products that we would all be proud of and not be ashamed of. That is the way to do it. Mr. Speaker, the funny part about is there are people, I bet you there are people who, if they were here listening to me now would say,'Oh there you go~ne is downing the poor old Premier again.

The poor old Premier went off and tried and he is downing him again: No, Sir, I am not downing anybody because I do not think there is a man in this House on either side who is not disturbed and concerned about what has happened to Newfoundland's reputation as far as the anti-sealing campaign is concerned. It is devastating~ It makes me sick to my stomach, but I think the approach could have been better thought out. I believe if the administration had taken the advice of my hon. friend and ignored this crowd that they would just go away. They would go away. All they wanted was recognition.

They could not buy the recognition that they are getting now. The publicity they are getting they could not buy it. The platform was provided out of tax money. It was used by the Premier and the government of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR. NEARY: Now if that does not coincide with your own thinking, Sir, I will make it personal. MR. W.N.ROWE: statement of our policy. MR. NEARY: That is a wonderful Mr. Speaker, if I may for a moment switch to another timely topic and that is in connection, Sir, with the strikes in Baie Verte and in Labrador City. I want to tell my hon. friend the member 516

March 14, 1978, Tape 177, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: for Baie Verte (Mr.Rideout) that I am not going to encroach on his 517

::a rC:1 l.l , 19 73 te rritor ity . :lha·t I a.o goin~ to say is f e zent!r2.l &l.a :~r e . I ti:in k i t is a disgra ce, Sir, to c:~i s ?rovince, and a ve r y :=aa1 disgrace to cha c;over=e lt anci. t::~ wi:1is tar res pons iDle t~at c:,ey :,eve not y~t~ ~~r. Speake r, not T~ ~ ) des !lice t ha ..; aestio :~;; a::d t lte press are r::at ·,;e ;:u r o ~ las :: year :!.~. ::!:L. ~dusrr::.al accidents ac.d ;Jccupati cal ·,a z,,r r.s a nJ incu;;::ria c ::.saases in t'tis !'rovi:-:ce . !:ley .lave no t yet G.one it . - 1 :'i&h t now, :· .. r.

Speak er, !:a :i2ve C"": ;o =jo r s t:=ikes aoi:::1;; 011 in t his Provinc e, representi ng, 3 ::.r i:1 :t:J il!'Ji::icn, che ra:,e llion of t·1or ~er :; agai..::st ;ove ::-·x::.cn;: t s fe1i:u r~ ~o ~ :-" .. .:o-:-cz ? t O!'eT ::ec.surcs: :J i ::, ::o ensu re :::~~ : ~3:.1 1; !; :2 ~ ri t~c: : r-2-etlo-_ .::-o':l ~ ·cc ideat:c ~ f ~:l~ust. r!al '"orkc rs in t:tis ? = ~1:i=..C~ . TI1·:= 3aie /e r t_ "o r kers, :tr . S9~:1k er, !:.ave :-:ot•' been follo•,;ed by ::;"le ·,1or !:e r s from t~e ! r= re Conpan~· of Car..ada in r.. ... !:radoT City, for ced to zo ou t on s tri!-:e, ~:r.

Speake ::: , :1 ~c m:1ke :10 ~ o~cs about chis a t all, th~y ar~ forc ed :o Jo ou t t:o se t :!? an au t hority :o ;m for ce pro p'!r ,;orking co::di tions in our !~:!Y industries . :c:i. ::-::::::: ::o J i c .:.~ -;1ac. ~ t is , ~ir. oi ::.:~as ar.C 'Cncrzy . '?..::s ~ Sir. ::r. :..itlas : .:..c ~ ; I ::: he c k~J i: ..)"r.l:; t!t:!.s ~rn.iLlg .

I do :n.y :lorneNor:; . : .~: ~taver els e. ... c. an -:,c i:.cc.u..::et! o f 'I I C.o :n:: hol!lew'Ot'i~ a:::d : as!;.2d a gentleman in ve ry hi;:;.'t a ut ;lor i ty c:1i:; mo rni.:~ if t~e govern;aet:.t hac proc eeded :-.'i:!'l t he ir ;;::ot ; e =o ?lace :. = eniorce: oe: ~.::. ~:1d the uthcrit: y for :.~ ' us ~r ial .:!ise:;.s e, 518

liG ~.?.. .. :~::..= ... z.Y: industrial acc~2~~ts u~~er o~e ~~brella an.:! l ~Jas t:ol~ tha~ t:.1ey b. ad uat.

J.OU.3SC:..\.iJ: I have a :li:J.ute-in-council '·!h:.ch says it ~i3.S, ! a.m 2;l~J t:he :'ra.-rnier is ir. ·.1is sa2.t :.::ec.:2u.c:P ! .=.r: ~oint to zero in en that before t:~e ~£ter!:oon is uver, if I ,:;et ti.T"JI21 am! if I cio not I \·rill ask ~lil:l on J:hursday. n.l.S ;?Od-.e t . th~ r.'l.i:'l.iat.er t.2.ker! any .:J.ctior.. on thCJ.t Crd~r- ·.~~H~:1 you eet clo'i~~ to brass tacks for this ~ove::-~e!lt. to follo~; :i1e ~<a::uple of Ontario and other ;rovinces ao.d set U? an in<::ustrial accident safety council or co~ittee or construction safety council, or ~oth, o.ining safety associ<:.ti::::1s, to Lre financed out of 'lor!";e::' s Compensation fur.C.s, to carry on educational prozr=es a:non~ ::.oth workers and employers and at the 'iloment I !:!entioned t~!e three that '"'e have, three ministers responsible, we also h .:~.ve an :;ewfounciland Ir dust rial Accide :1C ?rev-<:ntion. - I~rll1stri2l \ccident ?revention ~ssoci2t~c~, 519

to discuss ?Olic.y ;tnd to ~~ave a fe\·7 Jeers, ~~a rely enoug:-,_ to r!o that. ! C~a.irr. that ~7e s:-:.ould. have lil:.e t~e police COr.nission =::.at J: Rtn tal'~ing a">out, a."l inde"en:1er.t group set tt!'. ''P. :-m;SSL'.l': Yes,t,;.ey :-tre . .'·.n arvi:=or:' council! !~it=-:. six Ti1.err..~ers - IOC and ?Ut t~e ~oots to t~em or are they ;ust ~erely ~dvisi~; sovernnent? 'I':1ey nre a~vising governnent . . Pa?. it is only pap, Sir. ?orrio~e, that is ~11 it is . "r. Sneaker, can I get a little nouris"r .ent here, Sir·? I uould sey that this advisory council ~as no ;:~uthority.

It is :-:erely advisory, that is all it is.As the ninister says, no authority, very little funding. I believe, Sir, along >lith such an organization, •d.t'1 such arrange~ent should ~e ~ent records of accidents of the various industries so that contributions towards the 1;'orkman 's Comnensntion Board funds can he scaled to tte safetv record of each indust~r. !he u:inister cannot tell rne that that is bein~ clone r.o'·'· I have to contem~late it. Contel:'.plate it! ·~r.

S?eaker, I '1an to "et up '".ere For t~ree or four da~.Ts in a ro"t·J to try to ?~' ir: For,.,.ntio1"'1. out of r.:i:listers :·:R. ?,OUSSF~\U: Ml·: a question. __:m.. r'"EARY: Look,I •·TOuld like to have a little more infol"ll!ation on that. YR. ROUSSF.~T': Ask a question and the question '1111 he answered. ~'r . Speaker, I have been here for years askin)! questions 520

and I think "roba~ly in t":le last couole of "a:rs I at:1 -;ettin~ :::ore infomation 'Jut I 'cad to ory it out.

I 'lad to al::"ost '.~hack thfm over the head. 'Yell I am glad to 'lear, Sir, t'lat the 'Torl~man' s Compensation funds in the future are going to be scaled according to t~e safety record of t~at ~o~any . . 11<. r{UU~:">ti\U: It is ~ei~~ ccnte~place~. tal:en on it? noes the minister ~ave one of t~ese pieces of paper, an f'1r-:!er in CoU!lcil in 11is nocket on c~at. about t1·10 Orders in C:ouncil t:tat are floatin~; around so far. '!'-,e Orders in '"ouncil are there. '[ sncul:! c?.rr:r on anot"-er rlay <tn.d ?et :Jac': to it. 7h~n, :fr.

Speaker, an indu~:ry uith .o:::t poor saf~t .. t record or a con:pany •,rith a poor safet~r record <rould t.e :'P.n<llized, :•r. Speaker, right where it hurts most and that is in the pocketbook. That is the only Hay' that is the only lamruage that llrian r~ u lrn.n f' v anr! his cro~vrl of desoeradoes understand. That is the only lan'luage t!-.ey understand. Yr. Speaker, these two qrouos of eor•~ers toriay are forced to go out on strike and I •vould !lOt he a bit sun:rised \,ut the one in Labrac:!or '"ity - "1P.s1-,e I should not say t'lis, it ~it?:ht t:>e considererl to be irre>sponsib le - •·•as ?t'ovo~:erl.

""a~rbe t~ey cou:':.d not. '!aybe ti1e:r do. ! ~o no;: ':no~.~. onl:T langl!.o.ge th:'!t "r. M11l ron e v ;;.,.,,\ t'.e l'm"'!!: r:orroration of Canada and that croHd understanc' is the ooc!:ethool: and th<'.t is ~·;~ere you :tave to ~it t~P.r.'l.. Certainly •1ith t'1e recorr' :1~s, t!1ree accidents last year. r.:ell : ·:ad to rush i:1 at t~e last 521.

('·-::. Strac>,an) and :\e Ole!'lber for Conce?tioo ;.ay :cut~ C'r. "olan) artd t:,.er!. C..rag rr..y 110n. friend in be~1ind us carryin~ on ~eg;otiatic:ts ~-St. Jo:--.n's. 522

::.:::r-:: .. 1 l4 ,197~ .. 1roOl-=!:1, 5ir, L1 l.ft:!wfoundlauU ailJ l...ibra.cior. :;ow, ~·~r. Speaker, I aru. ..;oin 0 co - ~~eubers :.liJnt ::J.otice ti1a.t my voice still :1as l!Ot co"G~e back. After I left :;ere on Friday I w·ent i•o•~e and I wer,t to beci and I never ,:,;o t up uiitil ;re.sterclay afternoon. I :.lust ;;ay I cio not ::;lin:. I ever :1aJ J. i£ .lJ voice suuD.ds a li~tle :-aspy a;:1ai:r.~ t:oJ~y.

Dur: _ 2...:::1 ci.o:.:.n~ t.ie ~us~ I c~~ so ;ou will ~ust ~ av~ to ~~ar lt. :101c. fri.:::.-.ci t;lc Leader of tiu~ Opposition put a few qu.::;ticr:.s to .: .. e :1on. tne Prelilier followed by :::.y llO"-· frie::J.ci fro;a Ea[;l<! i~ iver ( .• r. StraciliiU) about t:1e Upper Ci1urci1ill, t.1e re-ne::;otiati."lg of tc.e c:.~n;;lill "'"c scrt of ;e1~er.::;,l c;uestions about the upper a.;.l<l Lower uizzr. Every UDe 1.-e ask a question we ;;et a. ciiffe::er.t answer.

Today I put a supplementary to the :1on. ti1e Preraier, and I saw =:.y han. frie:nd the Hiuister of Justice ::wi£;£;L"lg because tile :1on. ~entlema.n .\:.new \</Ll.J.t I ~>Jas " .;ettin:; at. I want to say this aow, Sir, som.et:1ing t~1.;.t I hc!.ve .1aJ on my wind for a len~ time; I •..,ant to ,;ay this cmd. I ar.; ~aing to out wit~ it now.

Since 1972,I t:liu;. it J..s, Sir, anc..i ;,efore that, 1971 when t:1is han. crowd 1;ere cc.o.lp.:dc,nin;l.1 .:mci then c~!lpaiJnt:J, Sir, one of the major 'l.:mks in their platform v~as t:'l.J.t cri..wioal.; un ::his .iide of t~1e :iousa, given aw::.y Oy ~:u: t=u.ito~s over here, given away by the crooks over here 1 :he power ,anC: '.;:1;- Upper C<1urchill hat.! ileen given away. :·1=. Spe:<oker, Your llonour b;.no~.a.~s and :1on. l.ilelilbcrs know that iJr. Goebbeis I suopose • ..,as the greatest propagandist that tile world has ever known. Alio1ph rlilter•s :J.inister 523 -...

, . * I >7J ::v. a ~~ otcen anoush , if you kept telli~l ~ lie of : eu enou a~ ~eo~ie ~auld beli eve it; tell~ lie, ke~p tellL<g it, tell a l i e oite~ euougil and people w-ould oel:!.e ve i t. \-'ell, Si.r, .:i".i · ; on. cro'Nci ::.1ve i:: een - bu :: I a:il no;: allc~eci - o s;;.:: c:.ey ;,ave been telli;~:;; :1 lie . Goebbels . Sir, because .·lr. Speaker, io <lc tual fact - and :i!Y · on . f :: :.cr.~ .. if : :1e/ co _. li:;:l.; resea.rc.1 :. ~ \~selves on t.lis side , ..-no :tav_e t.a;-e:, t i:e a buse ar.d c:1e c r i::.:.cis.J C\'er t !te years, - he l<:st iive ;;e:2rs will realize, 524 ...

7zoe l'l seerr.eci to be in ::he :dlderness ,lost, did not !:nm·T and the PreEier is out telling us night and day on radio and television, They are onl~ a bu.'lch of scoundrels and rogues over there, they gave al>ay the ?01-rer. ,\nd I get up and I ask him a verJ sipple question beczuse they are taking acticr'q this ::zov.::rnr.;ent is taking ~ction as:;air.st the ?ro,!ince of 0ue~ec - or Qu~b~c ]v::iro r~ther .J.nc! c:1urchill Falls Cor:>oration - :'he c:,urchill falls Corporation and in<lirect~y the - ::F.'"Y: :~r.

Spezker, the minister is confinr.ing uhat I 3ayin~, t!'tat under t'le law of :his Province, the :'inister of Justice : ':'.. PEC:~~Ol'.:l : . Sure that is o!Jvious. It \a opened eleve!". years ago. You are ,.;ay ~ehind. :rr. Speak~r, t\".e han. the Premier and the -~inister of Justice have told us that l·Te gave away the ;>o,;er . _1 ~. P'CC~:FOI'.JJ: So you did . I never opened my mouth. T:1e minister says he never openerl his r.10uth. T'le minister by his silence has implicated - Sure he uas the r.rlnister at the ti!'le. "e uas t'le minister.

As a matter of fact the :zentle:'!an 'vas over here negotiating that contract. I as~:ed him this afternoon in t!;e !cause, :!r. Speal.er, I 3i1id I i!anteci to ask the hon. tho T'rer.ior to tell the "ouse =der -,bat statute. under rrhat lau, this govern:T'.ent is to;kin~ c:1urcC!ill fall3 Hydro :md indirectly '"'ue!:Jec Eydro to coert. T.__e I'rernie.r shrug~eC his shoulders and said he did not 1mow. t7ell I at:'. going to tell the hon. P~amier right now.

The han. the P~emier and t!'J.e governr.1ent have taken Churchill Falls C:orporation and Quebec l'ydro to court on a la11 t'1at >Tas made by this ':::unch of crininals over here '·lho g<J.ve a"ay the pouer. Is ·that not rignt "r. Justice ~·inister? Is that not co~~ect? 525

"arch 14, 1:' 7 S One of the allegations contained in the state~nt of claim :Cas to do w·ith the a .greement entered into bet~·7een Churchill ?alls Power Corporation and the l';overnment of ':ewfounrlland, a statutory agreement. TI:at is an over-simplification o.f the - ~"? ... ~iEA?.Y: ~'r. Speaker, is it not a big lie - and I do not care Fho says it - is it not a !:Jig !.ie for anyhody to say t".at t 11e for:-:er administration ~s.ve atJay the ?Otver in this :'rovi~ce? Is c~-..at not ,'l big !.ie?

Is it !'.at? ,\nd I am looking at the "Jon. the I'r~niar uho has ~ade the statc!'tent so often nnd the han. gentleman nm.; is under a piece of legislation that uas passed by this croH<i over here taking Churchill ,.alls ancl Quebec ~vdro to court, the only avenue open to the Province, the only one. P~r:~~IE~ :-~co~ES: A re-onener l ... 'ould be easier .. .. r. :'aeal:ar, a re-opener on anvthing a re-ooener on t~1e election in 1~75 ''auld he easier. the Province. at the title Yes,they gave away i:!le .. inister of Justice was in the government look! - that he was talKing about. ::r.

Speal·.er, let me - I do not care ,.;he <·las in the govern1r.ent at the tine. I am telling you - Talk to your friend. T~l!: tn ~tour frien~, ~':r. ui!lister of Justice. Pro•rince "".~n i~ act•Jal fact the cnl.:' r~conrse, ~'le onl •r C()ursc of ~ction open to this Province is a piece of legislation th~t I have here in front of ~~. Sir, in case the ?re~ier ~as not seen it ~efor~. It is r!oun in t!le legislative lihr<>.ry. It is in the actinn that is 526 • I

. .., : ... . ··•·;:.). ?V: t:O'.~:en against r:mrc~ill Falls and against "ue:,ec ''yc!ro. !t is i:1 :::e action, the only ?ieee of legislation, the only laH. The only legal ••ay ~•e can get out of it is through a piece of. legislation that ~-:as passed - the 'hon. members proloab ly c!icl not realize this - "Y -::e:c.t>ers 0:1. t!1is siclt' of the T!ous!i. :lo !"Ot I rdll tell tr.er.1 - t".at if ·•e,.;fcu:r.dl.:mc' \as u.se :or : '\ J.t tab~ the ,.;hole '10rl~s l-ac 1:, that it is only a lease. It is 'l lec.se. to t"te television and said in ~r. ,;oo:::.:,el::; style. leased.

It 'cas not loeen ~ivan :l.IHW, never 'iiVE'!n aHav and an;r : :r.-_. P :c::~:o:cr: : ~7o, i= is ::.ot and 'i..re .1.re tr'ling to pro,te th~ t. Hr. Spea !··.er, to try - "e l1ave to ~o throug'l t!1e courts and spend '"~Oney and 1:1any, many ]'ears in order to ret bad:, to try to ~et back something that - ~ rr . :'rr.\~Y: ~~o gave the minister that aut~ority? '·"to gave the minister that authority? ''!L Pt"r.:~"'OR!l: /lnybocly can P.:O to court,you kno••· '"':. ::EAPY: 1-'ho ga•re the minister that authority? ~-"to ~ave t".c minister t".at authority?

The sys tel". clic. 7he systet'l. ':!1at SJ'Sten? 'T . '-~"Y: The Minister (.;oulc! h ave ,_,een handcuffed '-nt for the for:::er Liberal Admnistration . : !R. PECJ<:FORD: Centuries ago. rre gave the minister the 2.uthority. \.;e did. Centuries ago. ~7e 1vill ah,ays have recourse to courts. You ~elieve in that democracy, no you ~ot? 527

':ape lSl :!:J-4 ·~r. S:>eaker, t~e "inister of Justice C'r. uiclT.tan ) roust ·:-e crin;!ing there hecause the ~'ir.ister of Justice ("r. "ic:kr.-an) ''T'.o•:s full '•ell - ; ~. HICKYft~ ! : Even your o1m leader knous t!:!at '·lhat ;:ou are saying no•.-! is r.ot good law. It is ~ot ~ood law~ : :::J.ct:!.y. :~ell, ~'r. Sp~2ker, t1;.at is t:te cnly !.at:·! t~n.t ~.;e. ':'-.ave. 528

liarch 14, 1978 Tape 182 PK - 1 MR. :-lEARY: Mr. Speaker, what is not good law ? 1-Tould the hon. gentleman tell me what is not good law? MR. W. ROWE: What is not good law is what he drafted up when he was Minister of Justice, when he was suppose to be protecting his !.:R.. :--!ORGA..'i: Throw up something else now. ~(R. HICIC1AN: In the 1965 agreement, which the hon. gentle~4n will be more familiar with, and you Hill find that - I am not going to let Quebec know r•hat our course .:)f · .:.~c:.'~"" i~ MR. HICKMAN: it is - MR. NEARY: "­__ .....

S?C3.ker, let ::te - - t~are is more than one string to our bow, and The one string to the minister's bow was the string that was given to him by the Liberal party, by the Liberal government. That is the only string the minister has to his bow. MR. HIClO!A.'T: You mean by this Legislature. MR. NEARY: In this Legislature; I have it right here in front of me. And the hen. minister has - MR. HICKMAN: I hope you are right. I hope the hon. gentleman is right, and I hope that that is one - MR. NEARY: All righd right. I am going to ask the minister straight out, point blank MR. HICKMAN: Yes. ·--.. . · - ~~ MR.

NEARY: - under what ::;t~t".Jte and under what law and under what authority has the government taken action against Chruchill Falls Corporation and Quebec Hydro, under what authority? .MR. HICKMAN: The governemnt - MR. NEARY: Yes,the government. MR. HICKMAN: - has taken an action as 3et forth in the statement of claim against Churchill Falls Power Corporation and Quebec Hydro, and they have set forth several causes of ~ction, one of which is that we have called upon Churchill Falls Power Corporation to give - 529

March 14, 1978 Tape 182 ?K - 2 MR. NEARY: Under what authority? MR. HICIOI'AN: - us X number of - MR. NEARY: Under what authoirty? MR. HICKMAN: May I finish? MR. NEARY: Yes, but under what authority did you ask the Churchill Falls - MR. HIC~: X number of megawatts under the provisions of the lease. ~nd Churchill Falls Power Corporation, as <<as made public in here - MR. NEARY: It is a lease now, I see it is a lease. MR. HICKMAN: The lease of the waters of the Upper Churchill. The lease. MR. NEARY: That is interesting. It is not a giveaway, it is a lease. MIL HICKMAN: No, no, hold on a minute. MR..

PECKFORD: Hold on now. MR. HICKMAN: There is an agreement then a contract entered into between Quebec Hydro and CFLCo; and CFLCo came back and said, and this was made public here, We cannot comply with your request, we are not obligated to comply with your request because,amongst other things,that will place us into breach of contract with Quebec Hydro. And it was on these grounds that a matter that is presently - it was resolved in our favour last week - MR. NEARY: Well,wh~ provided the recourse to the Supreme Court? Who provided that piece of legislation? MR.. PECKFORD: It was not provided by anybody.

MiL HICKMAN: Anyone can take an action - MR. NEARY: No,anyone cannot. I am asking the hon. minister how brought the legislation into this House under which the han. Premier, the Minister of Justice, and the Minister of Mines and Energy, the three musketeers right across from me who so often have-s~id, You gave away the power. MR. PECKFORD: So you did. MR. NEARY: Who gave it away? 530

NMarch 14, 1978 MR. PECKFORD: MR. NEARY: ~. PECKFORD: Mi.. NEARY: So you did. We leased it. You gave it away. Tape 182 PK - 3 Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend the Minister of Justice knows the difference of that. · ~IR. PECKFORD: ~. NEARY: MR. HICIO!AJ.": Gave it away. And my hon. friend also knows this - That the Government or Newfoundland signs an intervenor in that other contract, too. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend also knows this,that that 5,200 megawatts of power from the Upper Churchill. MR. PECKFORD: You can use all your weasel words you want. MR.

NEARY: Of that 5,200 megawatts Newfoundland owns, have only leased the 5,200 megawatts,that we can stop that power from ~eing delivered at the Border anytime we want to provided the power can be used in this Province. Is that not correct? MR. NEARY: from Springdale. MR. HICKMAN: MR. NEARY: MR. HICKMAN: That is ~-rhat: 1·re a!"e !Jefore - Is that not correct? I am not talking to the Yahoo I hope the hon. gentleman is right. Well. I hope he is, but,you know,I have learned enough now when a matter is in court to wait and see what the judgment is.

Last year the hon. gentleman will regard we were accused that we should impose a tax. Exactly. MR. HICIO!AN: And I made the comment that a first year law student would know that was bad law, and I was screamed at, and shouted at, but I regret that the Supreme Court of Canada in the recent Saskatchwan case held that our position was correct. MR. PECKFORD: Yes,exactly. So your position - MR. HICKMAN: So wisdom and prudence indicates that one should wait until the :;ighest court has dealt ~ ·r ith it, ar:.d I hD;JZ t!1e :1on. ;;ent:=n :£., 531.

:March 14, 19 7 8 Tape 182 PK - 4 MR. HICKMAN: right. I really do. If he is right - MR. NEARY: I am not a lawyer, Mr. Speaker, but I do my homework, a.;.d for years 532

..... - J,. ;;ove :r:-""~ent t ;.:ho .;.re accusi.a.c; c~is · siue of che l ~ouse of 0 ivi.... a, a:~:~;~y :·L'L ~ICi::::!..~.:; : :.s . :: ~ · ~: :.:o~ loug wtlla t ? !~ow long i::: ::. C .;:i~JD~n? ~:R . · :iiCKl-!.~- t~~c cra£:eci it s noul~ know. : !?.. PEC:::FORD : A c;ood GUe:;.:iou . -~- · ::E .. \.i:~Y: .:..:e. .alect.r~city .:.:l t.J.i.3 ?-:ovi.uce . !'~uc is -'oo;: i.or .. ~ it :.~. i .e - .U\. l E..:.3.Y: Le t us get. i c ,;c:r:ai;;ht , Sir . Let i t ;;o out :..:011 ac :-oss : hi s Pro v ine ~! T;le _,o• .. ter i s le sec . You solo.l out and }'OU boo: '!.: . t.n ea:;y ._.,<~>' out of it . :1r.

Speake r, chat is ~o t •ctuat ch~ :·::Lui:;cer of Justice ~ui~ . -~r. is ~ooJ pr o p~anua , Sir . i~ is ~ ooc p ropaza~ d a :!!L :.IDEOliT: e is a Li~~ral I :;u~pose . :u, PE\.:~FOi8: . ::at ::.: •.;hy I .:;oc ou t. :.;a. PEC';.(FQ&J: You canno t weasel out: of it . "Cou .>_ole! out:. ER. NEARY: I::J. ac tual fact , :1r. Speaker , in ac t:ual fac t, Sir - 533

.:O.rr.:.l 14 ,19i3 :a. PEC~O::iD: :a. F!.IGI:."T: : :r:.. :::.."\AI : :G:t. ?EO::Fui'J>: :iR . ao:.;;;:: Ta~e :·Io. lBJ :;:.ey a.r.a :.:..-yi.;.;.g to ·•ea:>el over t:i1are now. ~io, Sir, I a:a not weaseliJJ.~ 1 I ~ u.ot C:e was never a Lib·eral - ::~ c=noc continue o live a lie forever . easel out of it aow . iie t!lu.:it have ne rvt!s on ;:he oucsicie or i:is \Jody . !~~ fcJ~t of t: u :.;atter is c·Lat · L"l 190 , i.n. .. -.r. S ea>~ r, I 'Would ll~e co ltave t:.1is : ~i:ro : :e d ..><) : .~ac ::ne aon .

Jen t le.n a n could ge e it fram~<i . ::ero:~.:ci allu J: rameu an uuna over the non . ~cntleman's ~eu . --·· . !'EC"O:FC:ill: I for~oc more about it . It is a ease .a.h.i tiLu: , Sir, SC:= EON . :~·lEERS : • Oh , oit ! lL.l\. NE ..... ~1 : ! '"ill show you 10i:ta t they ,;;,ould be cloin.; , Sir l tile illni:.;:.::.r ;.stead of JOi'1~ a r ounu ~o:i.t:1 his v ro pagan...ia auout ,;ell-outs .m itlealy - mouc ed about ,).veaways si1ould \>e try~ to bring 1..-.duscry iu to t l!is Province, s;tould be tryin& t o ;;~t industry to usa ;:;,ac ~o·~·er u..,c au :;e cha t ;>ower i:i still ours, Sir . :.:s tor ::;c, . ;.r.

Speaker • t e ui~ lie hZls been .. : ... t~ pl.ou.:! ... (InaudibJ.e) :io , Sir , I .;.:;;. •>Ot: tr:ri:.., t ali .- am j- us~ l.:;i·::..ng as it i s now . 534

.~rtlll 1.+ ,1 ~ 7 .l ·-"-· ?:C~rORD : ::;. . ?.0 ,~1: : .~ . FLIGiiT: .. ·4 ... Tap ., •• o. ~.:...l S-"11- out ~ ea r:. :;.1at ai:louc sell - our i'.ickman ov.;,r :.Ouy -~ ac k ?ec!Uo r ~ . $173 million for SOI!!e •~ater i r - I. t:as noc iu Foli cics ::~a.u . . ~ r . amen.ci.uaenc. F .i~s: oi a.i.i it ~.-as ~n.e ~tv~ 1:' • .:.l.!s a6=eem~ot,-Y .1v1.o. friend will r emellib~r . 1::. .;.us znenue-. ..u - ::i t.~, =.:::.ued :i.u :..~._ .:. , ~..:t:_"'o. .. !.::.. 1960 wue-=1 cue .~ou . ci..:Ut~c:J,i.l.J.:l -~ .. ~a;:: :.:.nist:e r vf J!..~cice. tne i1o~ • .;e11tlem;n :....c.o;.;s it is :r:.~::: . 535 ·-

'!:zpe 134 !~-1 The Churchill Falls Corporation at that ti!l'e •-;as a nriv.'!te COT".!lany. And in orr:!er, ~~r. Soeaker - and I Hant to exnlorle another ;,yth and another big lie. Listen to this, :!r. Soeaker, listen to this - a~d I have sent to the legislative li~ra~r and i~ I ~ave to spen~ tl':e rest of the ••ee~- on l:'Y feet I ~rill rlo it to e:r,plocie the lie, t!1is agree:c-er..t, voted for it. I ~-;ant to -:et t=:air ex.:1c:t '"O!'::'s. 7:1ey are not available at this r.orent but I 'lave ser.t to the ledsb.ti'Te library for t"ern .. :~~e :10n. ::tenber for St.

John I 5 Center c:r. ''urp~v) - I ,!a i10t kno•; if Your Honour <Iil.S Leader of tiH! Opposition at th:!t ti:ne or in t~2 o~oasitian - t>.e ' ~ C!L :"e~~er for £t:. Jo~n':; :-:.-,st I rer.:e!l'~-<er sneaking. !!'.a in bill ~>!ent tt rough ·chen a gentle!!'.an 'Iho has :;one to his great re,;ard, who has passed out of this ·•orl d no~•, 1-Jho '·•as in th~ ·:!?rositicn I do not think t-.e •:<J.s lc<J.der - referred to :Crinc:o as "ur.:~o? : ~ • ::L.:\f..Y : Yes, Sir. I remember the petition. I remerTlCer tr.e !"reedom ~!agon.

I 1-1as in the :'reedom HC~gon and I uas alrr.ost in it, ~ir, ·•'"ten it •.;e;1t :,attorn uo on the 1o~av up to I!olyrood at t'l.e ·~eacl of the bay. I (las alr.'.ost in it ~Vhen it got Sr.t<'.she~ •JP. ·:nat ~-1as tne end of c;;.e free-:! om Fagan. The hon. '7 .J. nro~m ~·TaS a tler..!Jer of t;;.is ·:ous~ ;~t c\...~ tir.e ::;.nd they callecl lri"co ~=~·. o. I re~er.ber all that. ?-•~t in the final analysis, !"ir, --'~'!:m t'1P. r-"c!:Rf:'e c;;~s out tc:=;et:-:er - ' Tone of us Here 11ere then. _:1' .• "Ti."A'OV• • • •• 1. . ... llh, '·1r.

Speal:er, •.;ohen the pac:~.age uas put together · . and a nic:e red ribbon 1-ras put on it my han. gentleman was sitting in the r:abinet. 536

•I .!. ~ ' Do not try to thrm~ it off on SOI:"ebod;• else no<'-'. Take your mm chair. ! ::-2 ~'R. :rF.:\!'.Y: :!r. Speaker, I 1;ant to say t~is for the benefit of the Yahoo from Springdale, that it is not governments who rna.i~e laws. ~not~er ~reat tmiversal truth. to ex?locie the ~reat lie; the gigantic lie. "'!:'. Sor!e.l:er, t~er~ ~:as an aS!reenent nar:~. r.~·.urchill l?"alls '-orporation <ras a pri•mte coryoratior!. to '2:0 2nd :1evelop the ''::rner l.hurc~ill, to ;out in canals and reset"'roirs and generators and transmission lines and that sort of ~hing.

Do you ~nm~ <There the right to do that carce froM, ~ir? f'oes the han. Speaker think it came from Joey Smallwood? Di~ lt cor.oe from the government of that day, the Liberal governnent,as the ?rernier so often says, t~e Liberal government passed this legislation, the !..iberal government gave this a<,;ay? If I can onlv ~et t~e ear of my :ton. friend, the ·,_on. the Premier. :'Ices the :-..on. Premier now sav, will the hen. Premier say to me, look ~e straight in the eye - 'fr. Speaker, if I could p.:et the hen. ~~inister of Agriculture e1r. :-!aynard) U!l off his knees, Sir. :•r. Speaker, ho•..;r often ~~hen ~rr.

Smalh10od •Jas sitting over there did we :1ave to take abuse and criticism and snarky remarks from this side of the !louse, '"T.-tey are on their knees again." Hell, l<ho is on their knees not•? The useless,big hulk from St. "·arhe C·'r. "aynard). ~he-re vou go. Every~ody have their o~ private meeting. 'tr. Speai:er, I ~Jonder if the :1on. the l'renier .. ,ill ~oak a~~~-ay· tl:C! pouer. it -;vas tte _governnent ':-::10 gave Churchill ralls t~e aut~ority to develop the Upper C~urchill, the orevious ~overnment. P!'..E:!IER ~',OOP.ES: That is so. The Premier says, yes that is so. ''r.

Speaker, I did not realize the Premier 1~as so naive because the ~'inister of Justice C'r. F!1cl~man) ~·nmvs the difference of t~at. The aut~ority 537

Tape 1~5 E-1 comes from this !!ouse, not frol'l the government. Premier realize that? The authority to c'evelop the Cpper Churchill came from t!'lis :Couse. Is that correct? Supported ':Jy t!'le IJay, aided and abetted one hunc!red per cent, a unanimous ~:e~ision of the !~ause,sup~ort:er! by t;-..e ·Jp~asition.

Jne of t~e ;en~le:men ~J as ~~.i.nister o: Justice over ~. ere r:ho is not" ::i~ist:er of Justice ('cr. ''ici:man) over on t:lat sic!e of t!-:e :'ouse. ::e!vtoundland' s version a f Jad: ~orner, :nc:::: ~\.:: : I ·..-auld ask the :1on, gentlet:lan to - ::E~':l".Y: I \·•ould ask t:-te ~:.on. gentleman to chec!: records and '-:e ·~as in his ~out'1 is '>ecause l1e seems to he :!'Uttering anA !':"!Ur.!bling .. -;-ho ~.akes t!-te laus., .::\nd ~1e said, o~ tl:'-.e :;overnrr.ent. ·r~ a~reed It is not the z.overr.oent, Sir.

T '· of '..ssem!Jl)'· ''r. ~peaker, t'1e ll-lurchill "'nlls ~"'orporation ;.:as, ,.;is"' I '-,ad ·:hat he carries :;~round in ::is •·:<l'!.let. It r;oulcl '-,e enoug'" for me for t~~ rest of