role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

November 16, 2016

41st Parliament, 2nd Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-Nov-16 (PDF)

L029 - Wed 16 Nov 2016 / Mer 16 nov 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 16 November 2016 Mercredi 16 novembre 2016

Orders of the Day

Election Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne les élections

Putting Consumers First Act (Consumer Protection Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 donnant la priorité aux consommateurs (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la protection du consommateur)

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Hydro rates

First responders

By-election in Sudbury

Hospital funding

Education funding

Mental health services

Adoption

By-election in Sudbury

Air-rail link

Social assistance

Human trafficking

Horse racing industry

Immigrant services

Visitor

Correction of record

Deferred Votes

Election Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne les élections

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

First responders

Human rights

Syrian refugees

Financial literacy

Health care in Kenora

Immigrant services

Transportation infrastructure

Human rights

Human rights

Supplementary estimates

Introduction of Bills

Auditor General Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant la

Loi sur le vérificateur général

Modernizing Ontario’s Municipal Legislation Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la modernisation de la législation municipale ontarienne

Financial Literacy for Students Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la culture financière des élèves

Building Ontario Up for Everyone Act (Budget Measures), 2016 / Loi de 2016 visant à favoriser l’essor de l’Ontario pour tous (mesures budgétaires)

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Woman Abuse Prevention Month / Mois de la prévention de la violence faite aux femmes

Petitions

Water extraction

Tuition

Health care funding

Hospital funding

School closures

Crown attorneys

Hydro rates

Privatization of public assets

Agri-food industry

Privatization of public assets

Government services

Lyme disease

Orders of the Day

Burden Reduction Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’allègement du fardeau réglementaire

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Election Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne les élections

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 3, 2016, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 45,

An Act to amend certain Acts with respect to provincial elections / Projet de loi 45, Loi visant à modifier certaines lois en ce qui concerne les élections provinciales.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Good morning to my colleagues in the House. It’s great to see everyone bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, of course.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: It seems like we were here not that long ago.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Not that long ago. It seems like just yesterday, in fact, Minister.

It is always good to be in this place on behalf of my riding of Essex and to speak to this bill this morning, Bill 45, the Election Statute Law Amendment Act.

This morning, as I was reviewing some of the notes on the act, I got a little bit excited because it—

Interjection: A little bit?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: I did. It reminded me of the elections that we all run in to garner support to get here, and how wonderful they are as an expression of democracy in our communities.

Speaker, I don’t know if you know, but I’ve run in five elections—three federal and two provincial elections—in the span of roughly 10 years. It takes some politicians a lifetime to run in five elections; I’ve done it in the span of 10 years. I garnered a lot of experience and I wouldn’t trade it for the world. You get the chance to meet your community. You get the chance to talk about issues that are important to your community and work with people who are just as passionate as you are in the democratic process regardless of their partisan affiliations.

I’ve made lifelong friends through the elections that I’ve run in, from people that I know don’t support me; I know they’re on the other side of the political spectrum. Yet being a candidate and being able to run in election campaigns is a real honour and a privilege that I don’t take for granted. I don’t think anyone else in the chamber does. That’s why it’s so important for us to be continuously reviewing the way that we run our elections in the province, and this is what Bill 45 does.

As an overview of the bill, there’s nothing in here that I see that is too contentious. These are mostly recommendations that have come out of the Chief Electoral Officer and of the office’s reports to legislators here.

The stated goal of this bill is to increase representation to First Nations communities in the Far North and promote inclusion and an elevated level of participation in our elections. That’s always a good thing. When we can encourage people to participate in the process, we should be doing that. A few of these, I think, will have some tangible effect.

However, I’ll say for the benefit of the government, the Ontario New Democratic caucus will be supporting this bill definitely at second reading. Now, we will be looking for a couple of amendments; one of them I would like to highlight. I would love and I hope that in the seven minutes that I have left—and whoever’s on the other side, if you’re going to respond to me, I’m going to ask a very clear question.

We’ve reviewed the part of the bill that recommends the far north boundaries commission. We’d like to see it expanded. If you’ve been in the House for any of the debates on this bill prior to today, you will have heard our member from Nickel Belt talk about Wahnapitae First Nation and the boundaries of that riding. Quite simply, that community has to cross France’s riding of Nickel Belt to get to the riding of Timiskaming–Cochrane—a five-hour drive—to touch base with their elected representative, who is John Vanthof. John is happy to service that community and will continue to do it.

But it’s a glaring mistake in terms of the boundary redistribution, and it should be corrected. First Nations want it corrected. They want to be able to have the convenience of accessing services through France’s office in Nickel Belt, within that riding. It just makes sense logistically. It’s really clear. We would really like this to happen.

I would like to know if that is something that the government is willing to do, and if not, I would like to know why. I’ve only heard one rationale as to why. It’s the old excuse: “If we do it for them, we’re going to have to do it for everyone.” You’re not, because no one else is requesting it in the province of Ontario. No other First Nation is requesting any consideration of redistribution within the electoral boundaries. Even if they did, isn’t it their right to question it, anyway? Who are we to say, “No, sorry, it’s too much of a burden to enfranchise you”? That doesn’t make any sense.

So we would ask that the government really take a look at what the member from Nickel Belt, the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane and the community of Wahnapitae have requested because, again, as stated by the Chief Electoral Officer, the goal is to increase representation to First Nations communities.

The other part of this bill has to deal with two other ridings—the ridings of our two other colleagues: the member from Kenora–Rainy River and the member from Timmins–James Bay. Those ridings are enormous. I’ve been up there, but I’ve certainly never traversed the entirety of the ridings. I hear it would take you half a day, on a good day, if the roads are clear. And sometimes it takes you, in a small plane, a single-engine plane—

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Two days.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Two days. These are the size of—give me some quotes here. How big are these ridings? Kenora is the size of Great Britain?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: France.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: France?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Throw in Belgium.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Okay. So they’re enormous and we all know that.

It’s beautiful country. If you ever get a chance to visit northern Ontario, get up there. It is some of the most beautiful, rugged country on the planet.

It makes a little bit of sense to take a look at how that area is represented, given that it’s so vast and so difficult for members to access those remote communities. Again, I would be hopeful that the government would take in full consideration and consultation with not only the communities in that riding, but the members who currently service those two ridings, and do what’s best for the people in the community.

There are a couple of other cool things in this bill that we can certainly get behind. One of them is the vote-counting machines. That’s a little bit of a step towards advancing technology in our electoral system. These are vote-counting machines. These aren’t electric online voting. Let’s make that differentiation right now. I would hope that these machines have been tested, that they’re certified and that they will perform the job.

We’ve seen incidents like the hanging chads in Florida in the US presidential election of years past, where those machines definitely didn’t count the vote properly and changed the course of that election. So we want to make sure that those machines are good and service our needs properly.

The other thing that I think might be beneficial is the voluntary registry for youth, for 16- and 17-year-olds. We would hope that a lot of information goes out prior to that. One of the things that I’ve heard, actually—and maybe this is another question for the government, anyone who’s going to respond—is that the government is considering taking out civics as a course curriculum.

Interjection: No.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: No? Okay. Tell me that’s not the case.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: The minister said no.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: The minister said no. Perfect. That’s great. I think, if anything, civics in our grade schools and high schools should be enhanced. We need more civics because politics and government affect our lives each and every day, in every way, so to cut that back would be a tragedy. But most definitely, if we can engage youth in the process, that’s something good. Let’s make sure, again, that the mechanisms for the registry are accountable, that they’re transparent and that they could never be used for any nefarious reasons or for gaining political advantage.

That would always be the hesitation, but I would suspect that we would be able to have enough of an oversight on that so we could protect it.

Therefore, Speaker, I’ll end my 10 minutes and thank the members for their attention. We support the bill, but we’re looking for the Wahnapitae First Nation—I’ll say it again; it’s been said a hundred times: We want to see that boundary be effectively changed so that they can be represented by the riding that’s closest to them.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments.

Mr. John Fraser: It’s a pleasure to respond to the member from Essex. I’m pleased, of course, to hear that they’re going to support the bill and that no, we aren’t taking civics out. In actual fact, I think the registration of 16- and 17-year-olds in the electoral process should add to civics in terms of engaging youth. It is true: We need to do a better job of getting people more interested and participatory in our elections. I think 52% was the turnout in the last election.

We can see the results of poor voter turnout in elections, which often ends up in results that people aren’t satisfied with, but if you don’t participate, it’s pretty hard to be dissatisfied with the outcome of the process.

I also do want to say that I hear what the member has to say with regard to electoral boundaries. I don’t understand them enough to have looked at a map, but that’s been very clearly expressed by the member from Nickel Belt, yourself and the member from Timiskaming. And I’m sure that the ministers have heard that. I do want to say, and this is not a reason—as you were saying, we can do it for you; we’ve got to do it for everybody, which is a reason that I think actually, in any endeavour, is not a good answer. In my community, for instance, I have a very large Arabic population, so I have Arabic staff members.

I serve people from across—I don’t have boundaries. I don’t see it that way. I say, “Did you speak to your member?” but—and I’m sure you do as well too, and I know that the member from Nickel Belt serves those people. I think sometimes we talk about the boundaries. I don’t see myself as having boundaries where I am. I talk to people from Peterborough sometimes because of an issue that’s there.

Hon. David Zimmer: Peterborough?

Mr. John Fraser: Yes, from Peterborough, and—thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments.

Mr. Jim McDonell: I’m always proud to rise on behalf of my constituents of Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry. We’re bringing voting into the 21st century, finally, with this government. I looked at some of the issues and what’s worrisome is the electronic counting, because any IT project that we’ve seen this government touch has ended up really being a disaster. Just two weeks ago, the first attempt at the high school testing ended up in complete disaster, and of course their answer was easy: They blamed an outside source for hacking the system.

But, you know, isn’t that what this is all about: your electronic systems being a security wall so these things don’t happen? Can we expect the same thing to happen during an election, where the system is hacked or it just doesn’t work?

Whether it be SAMS or any of the other systems, I don’t think they’ve had an IT system work seamlessly since, certainly, I’ve been here or since they’ve been in power. So it’s worrisome that they would set something up for an election of the scale of Ontario.

So we’re looking forward to seeing some of these changes. We’re cautious on that issue as well as others. There are some controversial issues in the bill. Just the issue we hear about the civics—a lot of questions with this. I know we heard a verbal no, but we’ve heard that before, just as with Bill 2, the counterpart, where we’re looking at some changes and amendments that we’re waiting to see submitted on that bill. It just goes to show that sometimes what you see in a bill is not what you get. We’re hoping that it’s different this time—likely not. But we look forward to seeing more in this bill, and we look forward to talking at length.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr.

Michael Mantha: Once again, it’s always a pleasure to stand on behalf of the good people of Algoma–Manitoulin, following my colleague from Essex, who really brought the essence of, “Yeah, we’re going to be supporting this bill.” We’re going to be making some definite recommendations and amendments to it once it gets to the committee stage, but one of the things that we’re really trying to push this government to understand is to look at expanding the mandate of the commission so that we could look at a community like the First Nations community of Wahnapitae First Nation, who have for years been asking for an adjustment to the boundaries so that they can find themselves within Nickel Belt instead of Timiskaming–Cochrane, not because of the lack of service—because the two members from Timiskaming–Cochrane and Nickel Belt have been doing a fabulous job servicing that community—but it would just make sense that they would find their true home within that community.

The member from Essex also talked a little bit about the establishment of a voluntary registry and eligibility list for 16- and 17-year-olds. At first I thought, “Huh, what an idea.” But then I thought that, well, this is exactly what I’m trying to do as an MPP: really reaching out to those younger voices, and not just reaching out to them to listen to them but to actually act upon what they’re asking for. I have to say, Mr. Speaker, that I have been successful in my riding of Algoma–Manitoulin in reaching out to those young, bright minds. A lot of them are going to be part of my riding association.

They’re going to be sitting in actual positions, trying to guide the entire area as far as where the next policies from our area are going to come from. So I thought that was a good idea. It prepares them and it gives them that opportunity to say: “Hey, I’m involved; I matter; I count. I’m ready, and when I turn 18, I know who I’ll be voting for or I know where my thoughts are going to be, where I’ll be able to identify myself and where I’m going to find the values that I want to see and bring those changes to government.”

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation.

Hon. David Zimmer: In my two minutes, I just want to outline again so that everyone in the public knows just exactly what the electoral commission is going to do. First of all—and this is very important, because there’s a lot of interest in how these boundary lines are going to be drafted and so forth—the commission is required by the legislation to hold public hearings both before it prepares its report, then it will issue its report, and then it will hold another series of public hearings so people can respond to that preliminary report.

The second important thing that the commission will do is that the commission will hear from experts, academics and, yes, politicians. But most importantly, the commission is going to hear from the people who actually live in the ridings that may or may not be subject to change.

The third very important role of the commission is that the commission will look at the geography covered by the ridings specifically of Kenora–Rainy River and Timmins–James Bay, and the commission will make recommendations to create one of two things: either an additional riding—one or two ridings in that geographic space—and then, within three months of the appointments, the commission will have to submit a report with its recommendations back to the Attorney General.

The point that I’m trying to make and that I have made here is that there is going to be a full consultation with the public residents in those ridings, with electoral experts and, yes, with politicians and academics. We want the best possible answers put to the commission.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Essex, two minutes.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Thank you, Speaker. I appreciate the Minister for—I’ve got to read that—Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation. I will commit that to memory, Minister, so I don’t have to look at it again.

I appreciate the explanation on how the process will unfold, and we don’t disagree with that. I think that’s a legitimate process. The question that we have is around the boundaries involving the riding of Nickel Belt and the Wahnapitae First Nation. How can you remedy that? How are you going to be able to do that? If you’re up next speaking on behalf of the government, I would love you to try to address that for us. We need to know, because the community is asking for it. This can’t be a contentious thing. This is logistics.

The member for Ottawa South raises a good point: Of course, we service other areas around the province. As critics, we get calls from around the province through our critic portfolios; you take them and you work on them. Logistically, if you have to go and pick up a file or you need to meet with a constituency office worker, then driving five hours when you should be driving half an hour doesn’t make any sense.

We hope that the government uses some real common sense here, takes a look at the Wahnapitae First Nation and makes the appropriate changes. I don’t know if it can be wrapped up into the Far North Electoral Boundaries Commission. We’ve asked that that commission be expanded for this sole reason. This is all we want you to look at. I hope that step can be taken.

I thank you for the time, Speaker. I look forward to further debate.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Further debate?

Mr. Grant Crack: Speaker, Bill 45 would, if passed, modernize the voting process, better engage people and make it easier for them to vote. We agreed to continue debate when we reached 6.5 hours of debate on this bill so that more members would have the opportunity to present their views on the bill. This bill, Bill 45, has seen more than 10 and a half hours of debate, and many members of the Legislature have spoken to the bill.

We have also heard during second reading debate the opposition and the third party express their support for this important legislation. The member from Nepean–Carleton said, “I think it’s important that we bring in modern technology, which is why the Progressive Conservative Party and our caucus will support this legislation.” The member from Bramalea–Gore–Malton said, “All told, this bill has a number of positive things and it’s something that we’re prepared to support.”

However, at this point, much of the debate is now repeating points already made by other members, and I believe it’s time that this bill be referred to committee where we will hear from stakeholders and members of the public. As a result, Speaker, I move that this question now be put.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell has moved that the question now be put. I’m satisfied that there has been sufficient debate to allow this question to be put to the House; I believe it’s 10 and a half hours.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I definitely heard some noes.

All those in favour of the motion that the question now be put, please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion, please say “nay.”

I believe the ayes have it.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Not a chance.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Excuse me?

In my opinion, the ayes have it—I think I’ll say that again.

This will be referred to after question period for the vote.

Vote deferred.

Putting Consumers First Act (Consumer Protection Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 donnant la priorité aux consommateurs (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la protection du consommateur)

Mrs. Lalonde moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 59,

An Act to enact a new Act with respect to home inspections and to amend various Acts with respect to financial services and consumer protection / Projet de loi 59, Loi édictant une nouvelle loi concernant les inspections immobilières et modifiant diverses lois concernant les services financiers et la protection du consommateur.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Minister?

Hon. Marie-France Lalonde: I will be speaking on this bill this morning, and I hope that everybody will be listening—

Mr. Grant Crack: Attentively.

Hon. Marie-France Lalonde: Attentively, yes, as my colleague pointed out. I’m very pleased to rise in the Legislature for the second reading of Bill 59, Putting Consumers First Act (Consumer Protection Statute Law Amendment), 2016.

C’est avec plaisir que je prends la parole dans cette Assemblée pour la deuxième lecture du projet de loi 59, la Loi de 2016 donnant la priorité aux consommateurs (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la protection du consommateur).

I am proud of our government’s ongoing commitment to strengthening consumer protection. The new bill is comprehensive in its approach and, if passed, will better protect consumers both at home and in the marketplace. Our government is investing in stronger consumer protection. It is a priority for us to support a transparent and better-informed marketplace where consumers can count on being treated fairly.

C’est une priorité pour nous de soutenir un marché transparent et mieux éclairé où les consommateurs peuvent être assurés d’être traités équitablement.

I am pleased to speak to the second reading of this bill which, if passed, will enhance consumer protection in the following three areas: regulating the home inspection industry; curbing door-to-door contracts for certain, still to be determined, goods and services; and reducing the risk to consumers who use alternative financial services such as payday loans. These areas are all connected to our government’s approach to improve fairness and transparency and to better protect consumers, whether at their front door or when they enter the marketplace.

Bill 59, if passed, would take consumer protection to the next level by closing gaps and extending protection in areas where our government believes it is most needed. It is part of our ongoing efforts to ensure Ontario has some of the strongest consumer protection laws in the country.

One aspect of the bill would respond to a consumer protection gap within the home inspection sector. Home inspectors are one of the only professionals involved in a real estate transaction who are not currently regulated by the province. This means that there are no mandatory qualifications that a home inspector working in Ontario must possess. We know that buying a home is the single-largest purchase that most people will ever make. Many homebuyers will hire a home inspector to help inform this very important decision.

Nous savons que l’achat d’une maison est de loin l’achat le plus important pour la plupart des gens. De nombreux acheteurs de maison retiendront les services d’un inspecteur d’habitations pour informer cette importante décision.

It’s estimated that approximately 65% of resale homes sold annually in Ontario had a home inspection completed. A qualified home inspector can offer a consumer a comprehensive evaluation of the condition of a home. Through their expertise, they can assess the structure and identify significant issues such as the condition of the heating system, the state of the roof or the windows. They can provide assessments on how urgently any repairs are needed.

Consumers often rely on the information in a home inspector’s report before buying or selling a home. However, without mandatory qualifications, consumers have no guarantee of the quality of the service they are receiving when hiring home inspectors.

In addition, various home inspection associations set different qualifications, resulting in various levels of competency across the home inspection field. If consumers receive a poor quality or incomplete inspection report when buying or selling a home, they are at risk of being left with unexpected costs or could lose a sale. It could even lead to a health and safety risk.

Mr. Speaker, I believe the proposed legislation, if passed, would take an important step towards increasing consumer protection in the field of home inspection. If passed, Bill 59 would create a new act: the Home Inspection Act, 2016. The proposed legislation would establish mandatory licensing for home inspectors and companies that provide home inspection services to clients in Ontario. Having one licensing regime will assure consumers that they are hiring a qualified professional.

Les changements proposés, si le projet de loi est adopté, permettraient la création d’une nouvelle autorité administrative pour administrer et appliquer le projet de loi et ses règlements connexes.

It would be an independent, not-for-profit corporation funded by licensing fees collected from individuals and businesses in the regulated sector. If and when it is set up, the new body would be responsible for overseeing complaints from consumers. This also could include implementing a disciplinary and appeal process to review violations of the code of ethics, if one is established by legislation. This means greater accountability within the industry, in addition to greater consumer confidence and trust in home inspectors.

The bill, if passed, would allow for regulations to be developed to establish licensing requirements such as education, experience and examination requirements. It would create a code of ethics for home inspectors and companies providing home inspection services. It would adopt a technical standard for home inspection to define what must be inspected. It would standardize home inspection reports and contracts to protect clients and make it easier for them to understand what they are signing. It would set out insurance requirements that balance risk and costs for both the industry and consumers.

If the bill is passed, the government plans to consult with stakeholders and the industry to develop the proposed regulations.

Nous voulons assurer un juste équilibre entre la protection des consommateurs et les coûts acceptables pour le secteur de l’inspection d’habitations.

The proposed requirements for home inspectors, including mandatory licensing, were developed based on recommendations from a panel of 16 experts representing both industry and consumers which was established by my ministry in 2013. The panel confirmed that financial health and safety risks to consumers would be reduced through strengthening consumer protection in the home inspection field. I would like to say thank you to the panel members for their dedication and hard work on this issue. Their expertise helped immensely in the creation of this bill. I believe the proposed legislation, if passed, would support consistent, high-quality home inspection evaluations across Ontario.

Quiconque embauche un inspecteur d’habitations devrait pouvoir compter sur un certain niveau de compétence et d’expertise. Les consommateurs sont en droit de s’attendre à recevoir des conseils adéquats d’un inspecteur d’habitations qualifié.

I am sure that many of the members in this House this morning have a story from a constituent that has received an inadequate home inspection. As I said earlier, buying a home is the largest investment that most of us will make in a lifetime.

Any homebuyer or a prospective homebuyer would agree that purchasing a home is an exciting as well as an anxious process. All prospective homebuyers want to ensure that they get what they paid for with their hard-earned money and that there are as few surprises in the future as possible.

Mr. Speaker, there are many home inspectors in this province who do their jobs well and understand what to look for in a home. These home inspectors are often held in high regard in their communities and are an essential resource to anyone buying a home. However, it is important to note that currently anybody in Ontario can practise as a home inspector, as there are no minimum standards or qualifications. This has resulted in unethical or careless inspections by inexperienced or careless home inspectors, which has led to major problems for homebuyers as they move into their new homes.

These can range from missed structural defects to water damage, and everything in between. Sometimes obvious damages that were missed by an inexperienced or unskilled home inspector can lead to many thousands of dollars in repairs. This can be especially tough for new homebuyers who spent most of their savings on their down payment. Not only can repairs be costly, but the value of the property may also decrease due to the known defects.

The more these unsatisfactory home inspections occur, the less likely home inspections in general will happen, as consumers could start to lose trust and confidence in this essential service.

Mr. Speaker, the proposed changes will help ensure that consumers benefit from qualified, consistent advice when buying or selling a home and are better protected from surprise repair costs and safety issues. Consumers and the home inspection industry would benefit from this. Consumers will have peace of mind and will have greater confidence in any home inspection report they view and analyze. With minimum standards and qualifications, home inspectors will be an even more vital part of the real estate transaction.

It’s worth noting that many experienced and successful home inspectors are fully on board with the proposed legislation, as it brings accountability to their profession. In the home inspection industry and real estate industry as a whole, leaders such as Tim Hudak say that people have a right to expect high professional standards and government oversight of everyone involved in a real estate transaction. Regulating the home inspection industry will ensure that homebuyers and sellers receive reliable, informative and professional advice when making one of the largest decisions of their lives.

We know that these proposed changes are welcome by the reaction we have seen throughout the past few weeks.

Mr. Speaker, this piece of the proposed legislation is also inspired by a private member’s bill put forth by the member from Trinity–Spadina that many here may remember. In March 2016, he introduced the Licensed Home Inspectors Act, which called for regulation of the home inspection industry. His tireless advocacy on behalf of homebuyers in this province is something to be acknowledged and commended. Consumers, industry stakeholders and many in this chamber were extremely supportive of such action. I hope his effort is realized with the passage of the proposed legislation, Bill 59.

Mr. Speaker, there is a consumer protection gap in the home inspection industry, and it must be closed. This is especially true when it comes to the largest investment consumers make in their lifetimes. We certainly must reduce the risk involved accordingly. The proposed changes would, most importantly, allow both buyers and sellers to be more informed about this major investment and help increase confidence in the home inspection sector.

Bill 59 also seeks to further curb aggressive door-to-door contracts. Our government has been committed to taking ongoing action to strengthen consumer protection in this area. For example, in 2013, my ministry introduced new rules under the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, to more tightly regulate door-to-door water heater contracts. Consumers were also provided with additional information to make informed decisions.

Depuis l’introduction de changements aux contrats de ventes de chauffe-eau porte-à-porte, le nombre de plaintes et de demandes de renseignements du public à ce sujet a baissé, bien qu’il reste encore élevé.

Our government also implemented tougher rules that will restrict door-to-door energy contracts as of January 1, 2017.

I believe it is time to take further action to better protect consumers at their front door. Aggressive door-to-door sales are a long-standing consumer protection issue. We all know of situations where consumers are approached by someone at their front door using high-pressure tactics to get them to sign a contract that they didn’t want or actually need.

Under the existing Consumer Protection Act, door-to-door contracts generally are subject to mandatory disclosure rules and a 10-day cooling-off period. During these 10 days, a consumer can change their mind about a purchase made in their home and cancel the contract.

Water heater door-to-door sales were once identified as a top source of consumer complaints. Our government acted upon this and added additional protection against high-pressure and aggressive door-to-door sales practices used by water heater salespersons by:

—giving consumers a 20-day cooling-off period during which they can cancel their agreement for any reason and get their money back;

—banning the delivery and installation of water heaters during this 20-day period unless the consumer initiated the transaction or there is a pressing safety concern;

—requiring suppliers to provide consumers with the total cost of renting the water heater over a 10-year period as well as comparables for similar water heaters; and

—requiring suppliers to provide improved plain-language disclosure documents to consumers when entering new contracts.

Since implementation of these specific rules, my ministry has seen a reduction in the total number of inquiries and complaints related to hot water heater agreements. However, this is not enough, as we still see many Ontarians who are victimized by predatory door-to-door salespeople.

We believe even stronger measures are needed to protect Ontario’s families. That’s why we’re bringing forward legislative amendments that could be used to ban in-person solicitation for the sale of prescribed items to consumers at their homes. The changes, if passed, would enable regulations to prohibit a seller from initiating a contract through door-to-door sales of certain goods and services. These items may include water heaters, furnaces, air conditioners and water filters.

We want to address the issue of consumers feeling pressured to sign a contract at their door, and we want to become the first province to seriously limit door-to-door marketing for items which cause the most consumer harm. Ontarians will still be able to initiate doing business with companies at their homes such as calling to replace their furnace when it breaks down in the winter. All consumer-initiated contracts for specific appliances will still have a 10-day cooling off period and mandatory disclosure rules consistent with the current rules.

The proposed legislation, if passed, would lead to the banning of uninvited door-to-door contracts for certain and still to be determined goods and services, which could include home appliances. This would give consumers more protection against aggressive door-to-door marketers who use high-pressure tactics.

My ministry would look at top areas of complaints and further consult with consumers and relevant stakeholders as to which products and services would be affected by the ban.

Ces biens et services pourraient notamment inclure les chauffe-eau, les appareils de chauffage, les climatiseurs et les filtres à eau.

These proposed changes will help to address the long-standing issue of people feeling pressured to sign contracts at their door. Consumers still would be able to contact businesses and initiate and sign contracts in their homes. And as I mentioned, all consumer-initiated contracts for prescribed goods and services will still have a 10-day cooling-off period and mandatory disclosure rules consistent with the current CPA rules that apply to consumer contracts.

Au cours de la période de réflexion de 10 jours, un consommateur peut changer d’avis sur un achat effectué chez lui et annuler le contrat pour toute raison quelconque.

Mr. Speaker, again, we have all heard stories of vulnerable consumers being taken advantage of by predatory door-to-door marketers. There are constant stories in local papers and major media outlets of terrible situations where people are paying thousands of dollars a month to just cover the cost of the appliances they bought from a dishonest door-to-door salesman. This is their hard-earned money going to waste due to falling victim to high-pressure sales tactics.

Just the other day, I heard, actually, from an individual who is extremely encouraged by the proposed legislation. He is especially affected as he manages a heating and cooling, plumbing and electrical company in his city, and his mother was recently a near victim of a door-to-door scam. Her story is similar to many that we all have heard: A door-to-door marketer knocks on her door and claims to be affiliated with the government. With a sense of urgency they convince her to perform a test on her water filtration system, as she could be in danger due to an inadequate system.

She is then told that the water in her home is potentially dangerous and that drinking it can pose a health hazard to both her and her family. It is near impossible for someone not to be anxious and frightened at any type of preventable harm coming upon their family. They tell her that she luckily qualifies for a free installation of a new water filtration system. They even throw in a $300 rebate to sweeten this supposed deal. This type of emotional sales tactic is commonplace among unethical door-to-door salespeople, as they play with a consumer’s rationality and well-meaning nature.

Her son would find out about this predatory door-to-door sale later that day. He brought his mother to both the bank and the police station the next morning to ensure that the contract was actually voided. The contract his mother had signed showed an installation charge on the front page which was crossed out with a giant zero to indicate supposed savings. Once he read the contract further, he found the true cost of this deal in the later pages. Both the new water filtration system and the added water softener were $59.99 per month plus tax each, and the term was set to 120 months. This means his mother would have paid over $16,000 over the course of 10 years.

Interjection.

Hon. Marie-France Lalonde: I agree.

This sky-high price disturbed him deeply, especially since his company also sells similar water filtration systems. This particular type of system usually costs under $3,000, which means this particular scam was potentially worth $13,000.

It’s stories like this that motivated our government to act upon this important issue. Too often, we hear these stories, and oftentimes the victims are not as lucky as the one I just described. These examples and anecdotes stretch far beyond demographics and geography. Victims to these aggressive sales tactics can be a parent, a friend or a neighbour. I am extremely proud to be speaking to this bill today and to know that it has the potential to help many across our great province.

We have heard from companies that sell these kinds of appliances, and they are concerned about the way in which these unscrupulous actors are taking advantage of vulnerable people within their own homes, using dishonest and high-pressure tactics. They are concerned that it’s giving their whole industry a bad name. We know there are good operators in this space, and we want to ensure that they have every chance for their business to succeed and that they do not lose business to those who would prey upon the elderly and our vulnerable.

This part of the proposed legislation was inspired by the work and ensuing private member’s bill by the member for Etobicoke Centre in. In June 2016, he tabled the Door-to-Door Sales Prohibition Act, which formed the basis for the current proposed legislation. His initiative to protect vulnerable consumers from unethical door-to-door marketers was a result of listening, comprehending and analyzing the complaints consumers have across Ontario regarding the practice. Several municipalities across the province got on board with the idea as well.

I would once again like to give my sincere thanks to the member from Etobicoke Centre. In fact, Bill 59, if passed, would make Ontario the first province to seriously limit door-to-door contracts of this nature. The changes we are proposing would better protect hard-earned dollars, boost consumer confidence and level the playing field for companies that use fair business practices.

Finally, Bill 59, if passed, would lead to changes that strengthen consumer protection for Ontarians who use high-cost financial products and services outside the mainstream banking and credit union system, such as payday loans. We believe that consumers should have access to credit and other financial services without being exposed to unfair practices or being caught in a revolving cycle of debt. The bill, if passed, would better protect and lessen the burden on people who use alternative financial services and help protect them from unexpected costs.

Our government is concerned about the impact on consumers forced to use alternative financial services such as payday loans. Consumer groups have told us that payday loans are an important source of money for people who do not have access to other credit. However, we remain concerned about consumers being unduly burdened by the high costs of using these alternative financial services and becoming trapped in a spiraling circle of debt. We are committed to making sure that people who use these services are better protected and have the information they need to make the best decision for their circumstances.

Alternative financial services include payday loans, installment loans and rent-to-own services. The proposed changes would also create regulation-making authority that could be used to provide a grace period for late payments in rent-to-own agreements and to set maximums on the cost of optional services for instalment loans.

The bill, if passed, would also address services for cashing government cheques and better protect consumers with debts in collection.

The proposed changes, if passed, would benefit consumers who use a range of alternative financial services.

Mr. Speaker, it is a reality that some Ontario families must turn to alternative sources of credit, such as payday loans, to pay for basics like rent and groceries. Others must rely on these sources of credit to cope with unexpected expenses such as car repairs. Our government wants to ensure that users of alternative financial services are better protected and better informed.

Les consommateurs devraient avoir accès à un marché équitable pour des services financiers qui ne créent pas un fardeau déraisonnable.

The proposed legislation, if passed, would involve amending several laws, including the Payday Loans Act, 2008, the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, and the Collection and Debt Settlement Services Act.

The proposed changes for the Payday Loans Act, 2008, would provide the registrar of payday loans with authority to inspect unlicensed lenders. The government would also be given regulation-making authority that could be used to:

—set out standards or factors that payday lenders would have to take into account before entering into payday loan agreements with borrowers;

—restrict high-frequency borrowing;

—provide repeat payday loan borrowers with an extended payment plan option; and

—further improve disclosures so that consumers can make informed decisions.

The proposed changes would help consumers using payday loans to avoid repeat borrowing.

Notre gouvernement veut également améliorer la sensibilisation des emprunteurs de prêts sur salaire à propos des services-conseils en matière de crédit.

We plan to take steps to ensure consumers have access to the information and guidance to help them better understand their debts and rights. This would support them in making better informed decisions about using alternative financial services.

The bill, if passed, would also amend the Municipal Act, 2001, and the City of Toronto Act, 2006. The amendments would allow municipalities to regulate the number and location of payday lenders by passing bylaws.

Changes are also proposed to the Consumer Protection Act, 2002. The act would be amended to create regulation-making powers that could be used to better protect users of credit agreements, like instalment loans, and lease agreements, like rent-to-own services.

The bill, if passed, also would amend the Collection and Debt Settlement Services Act to:

—broaden the category of debts to which debt collection rules apply;

—create regulation-making power that could be used to provide more information to be disclosed to debtors in the collection process; and

—allow the ministry to levy administrative monetary penalties under the act.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: A point of order.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): A point of order, the member from Windsor–Tecumseh.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Just looking around, I don’t think we have a quorum present.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The Clerk’s table will count for a quorum.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr. William Short): A quorum is not present.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): A quorum is not present. Ring the bells.

The Acting Speaker ordered the bells rung.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr. William Short): A quorum is now present, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): A quorum is now present.

Continue.

Hon. Marie-France Lalonde: These provisions would ensure that consumers with debt in collection are better protected from overly aggressive debt collection practices. The proposed changes would mean that firms that purchase debt for the purpose of collecting it would be subject to the same rules as collection agencies; for example, limiting when debt collectors can call and who they can contact.

The proposed changes would create regulation-making powers that could be used to better inform consumers about alternative financial services, and this would reduce the likelihood of them being surprised by the costs or conditions of using these services.

Des coûts imprévus peuvent causer aux consommateurs qui sont déjà dans le besoin de plus grandes difficultés financières. Ainsi, ces modifications proposées sont d’une importance particulière.

The proposed legislation, if passed, would make the province a leader in Canada in taking action to better protect consumers from the risks of using alternative financial services. In addition to Bill 59, our government has been exploring other ways to help consumers who rely on high-cost borrowing services. To support this, we launched a public consultation in April 2016 on the current maximum total costs of borrowing payday loans. Again, consumer groups told us that payday loans are an important source of money for people who do not have access to other forms of credit.

We heard from consumers’ advocates and consumers’ agencies that banning payday loans could cause financial harm to those who rely on them. They asked us to protect this source of credit for families and individuals who use payday loans regularly to meet their day-to-day obligations. They also told us that reducing the costs of borrowing a payday loan will help people who have no choice but to make use of them.

Mr. Speaker, our government listened and is taking steps to reduce the current maximum cost of borrowing, which is $21 per $100 borrowed today. Starting on January 1, 2017, the total maximum cost of a payday loan will drop to $18 per $100 borrowed. It will drop further to $15 per $100 borrowed starting on January 1, 2018. These reductions will make Ontario’s new rate among the lowest in Canada.

Our government takes the protection of all consumers seriously. As you can see, Mr. Speaker, our government has been working on several fronts to better protect consumers using alternative financial services. The payday loans industry has been growing steadily throughout the past few years as reliance on these loans has increased significantly. Many of the members, me included, live in cities or municipalities where payday loan establishments have, we would say, almost grown like mushrooms in certain neighbourhoods over the years. In some cities, you can walk down the street with many payday loan establishments dotting just a single city block.

The availability of payday loan shops is often directly correlated to the proportion of low-income, vulnerable and at-risk borrowers. If payday loans are more visible for consumers, consumers in need are also more likely to rely on these lenders. As I mentioned earlier, the proposed legislation, if passed, would amend both the Municipal Act and the City of Toronto Act to allow for more local decision-making in the ability and the prevalence of payday loans, especially in higher risk areas.

By being allowed to pass bylaws to establish zoning rules for payday loans, municipalities can take an informed and direct approach to slow or stop the growth of payday loan establishments. If they’re not as abundantly available, some consumers may be less likely to rely on them. Giving municipalities more powers in regard to this issue is a result of listening to their concerns in consultations and meetings.

We know there are many people for whom payday loans are a last resort, and due to the costly nature of these loans, we would like to keep it as such: a last resort. The main issue for most is not the initial loan, but getting trapped in a debt spiral when prior loans are paid off with new loans. These financial instruments have very high interest, and when desperate, borrowers may see past this.

I have been to towns and cities across Ontario and seen some of the ingenious ways business lenders are helping financially vulnerable consumers in their communities. Some are now offering low-interest loan instruments to help people break away from predatory payday cycles. I applaud the emergence of socially responsible initiatives and encourage their development in communities across the province.

As for the payday loan industry, we know that awareness is not enough and that stronger regulation is needed to ensure a fair and safe marketplace for the people of this province.

We also know that overregulating the industry will not decrease demand for the product. Demand is constant and consistent for fast, short-term loans, such as payday loans. If the risk or cost of business is too high for payday lenders, they would obviously go out of business. This would force similar loan instruments underground where there are no protections as regulation is impossible. Like most consumer protection measures, we must ensure that the cost of doing business is at a manageable level, while maximizing protection for consumers.

The proposed legislation, if passed, would help vulnerable borrowers immensely. Bill 59 is an important component of our overall efforts to reduce the risk and better inform consumers. If the proposed legislation is passed, we plan to further engage stakeholders to inform the drafting of supporting regulations. We hope to move forward with these important next steps of strengthening consumer protection, and will continue to seek ways to reduce the demand and impact of consumers using alternative financial services.

Mr. Speaker, this is a bill that all Ontarians can get behind. We have seen widespread support of the bill from consumers, as well as many in the affected industries.

Bill 59 is the culmination of extensive consultation with consumers, industry stakeholders and other levels of government. Our government is dedicated to creating the protection consumers across the province need and deserve. We also strive to ensure that those who practise good business practices are not penalized and continue to succeed in their respective marketplaces.

Since 2003, our government has helped consumers make informed choices to protect their hard-earned money.

The Putting Consumers First Act, if passed, will strengthen consumer protections by introducing new rules for home inspections, door-to-door sales and payday loans. Through the proposed legislative changes, our government would further demonstrate our commitment to addressing the needs of consumers and putting them first by better protecting them and reducing the risks they face.

Grâce au projet de loi, s’il est adopté, nous poursuivrons encore le renforcement de la protection des consommateurs pour tous les Ontariens, autant à domicile que dans le marché.

Mr. Speaker, I thank you for listening, and I thank everyone. Merci.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): This House stands recessed until 10:30 this morning.

The House recessed from 1011 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Steve Clark: It gives me great pleasure to introduce two members of the Brockville Police Service who are here as part of the PAO day today at Queen’s Park. I’d like to welcome April Muldoon and Eric Ruigrok. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Bob Delaney: I’m pleased to welcome back one of our own. Joining us shortly will be a former legislative page who represented Mississauga–Streetsville: Megan Sweetman, who will be here today with her grade 10 civics and career class from Toronto District Christian High School in Woodbridge.

And of course, my old friend Bruce Chapman is here as the president of the Police Association.

Mr. Lorne Coe: I’m pleased to introduce to the Legislature Irina Roudenko and Peter Hernandez, who are constituents; Peggy Allen from Oshawa, who is with the Ontario Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists; and the students and teachers from R. S. McLaughlin CVI and from St. John Paul II in Whitby and Oshawa.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: We have four members of the Windsor Police Association here today for the lobby day and a reception later this afternoon, to which everyone is invited: Ed Parent, Carol Forbes, Mike Hradowy and Paul Gratton. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Michael Coteau: It’s my honour to welcome Andrea Coke, a speech-language pathologist from the beautiful riding of Don Valley East, here to the Legislature today.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: I’d like to introduce Mike Routly and Mitch Blair of the Woodstock Police Service, here today with the Police Association of Ontario. I want to thank them and welcome them to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Chris Ballard: I’d like to welcome a constituent of mine from Newmarket–Aurora: Shelley Gardiner. Shelley and her colleagues are here at Queen’s Park today on behalf of the Ontario Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I’m proud to welcome, from the Police Association of Ontario, Mike McGuire and Kevin VanRooyen.

Hon. David Orazietti: I’d like to introduce Bruce Chapman, Stephen Reid, Mark Baxter, Jim Glena, Jason DeJong, Larry Wood, Dave MacLean and Jay Yocom from the Police Association of Ontario.

I want to thank all members from the Police Association who are here today for the work that they do.

Mr. Todd Smith: I’d like to welcome a number of members from the Ontario Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists. I had a chance to have breakfast with them this morning: Melanie Gravel and Richard Holmes from Kitchener-Waterloo and Teresina Chan from Willowdale.

I’d also like to welcome three members from the Belleville Police Association who are here with us today: Rene Aubertin, Anne Brennan-Walsh and Andrew Fry.

Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: Joining us from my riding of Barrie today is Constable Pat Brouillard with the Police Association of Ontario.

I would like to also welcome children’s lawyer Sonya Jain.

Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Laurie Scott: I’d like to introduce Mary Cook, the executive director of the Ontario Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists, who is also from my riding of Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock; and Jerry Bonavita, also with the OSLA and from my riding of Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock.

Ms. Catherine Fife: I’d like to welcome, from the Police Association of Ontario, Mark Egers, Tim Reparon, John Foster and Mike Stotts. Welcome.

Mr. Granville Anderson: I would like to introduce Randy Henning, Tim Morrison and Brad Durst from the Durham Regional Police Services Board. I would like to extend a very warm welcome to them here at Queen’s Park.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Today I would like to introduce two constituents from our riding of Nipissing: Susan Sheehan and Bud Fisher.

As well, I’d like to introduce a young student, Allie Annibale. She was here this morning as part of the Ontario Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I’d like to introduce four police officers here from Niagara today: Leanne McClay, Patrick McGilly, Rick “Flash” Gordon and Neal Orlando. They all do tremendous work with the Niagara Region Police Association.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: I’d like to welcome to Queen’s Park Nathan Clarke, Matt Lawrence, Katie Andres, Darlene Sanders and Sergeant Terry Teno of the Port Hope Police Association, and a special congratulations to Sergeant Teno, who has served the association for 25 years and the police services for 30. They’re behind me.

Mr. Bill Walker: I’d like to welcome all members of the PAO and especially Andy Robson and Glen Tremblay from the Owen Sound Police Service.

Mr. Speaker, today it was announced that Owen Sound is one of 22 must-visit hockey towns in North America. Come visit Owen Sound.

Mr. Todd Smith: There you go: home of the Attack.

Mr. Bill Walker: The Attack.

Mr. John Fraser: I’d like to welcome, from the Ottawa Police Association, Brian Samuel, James McGarry and Dan Brennan, just over here in the gallery.

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I’d like to welcome, from the Ontario police association, Cam Gough, Sean Bambrick, Jason Cahill and all of the other members from the Kingston police force who are with us today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. James J. Bradley: I’d like to welcome to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario today representatives of the Niagara Region Police Association, who are in the members’ gallery to the east.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I would like to introduce members of the Ontario police association whom I’ll be meeting with later on this afternoon: Mike Robinson, Ozzie Nethersole, Matt Drake and Chris Ross.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: I would like to welcome members of the Halton police association. Here today are Sarah Diamond, Sheri Grigsby, Rob Todd and Shane Barnes. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I, too, would like to welcome folks from the Ontario police association, including Randy Henning from Durham region.

I also want to acknowledge the people in today from the Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists, especially Lee-Ann Kant, a speech-language pathologist from the great riding of Pickering–Scarborough East.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Today our page captain is Henry Klinck, and he’s joined today by his grandfather, Keith Strong, and his uncle, Scott Strong, of Oakville. Please welcome them to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Bill Mauro: I’m pleased to welcome to Queen’s Park a couple of members of the Thunder Bay Police Association: Rob Steudle and Jim Glena.

Hon. Kathryn McGarry: I’d like to welcome today, from Waterloo region and the police association, members I met with this morning: Mark Egers, Tim Reparon, John Foster and Beverley Walker. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: It gives me great pleasure to introduce some people who are visiting here today in the members’ gallery: Rui Ferreira, and from Portugal, Igor França and Gui Costa, who are here to participate in the events going on at Casa dos Açores on the 19th cultural week there. Welcome.

Mr. Paul Miller: I’d like to welcome the Hamilton regional police here. Unfortunately, I wasn’t given a list of the participants, but I’m sure I’ll be seeing them today. They’re welcome.

Mr. Arthur Potts: It’s my pleasure to introduce a couple of youth advocates from Beaches–East York: Alex Tuck and Ben Quinton. They’re up in the strangers’ gallery on the west side.

Ms. Daiene Vernile: I am delighted to welcome to the Ontario Legislature two of my constituents from Kitchener Centre. They are Marie Morrison and Lynn Macaulay. They are here to have lunch with me. Welcome, ladies.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): In the Speaker’s gallery today are guests from the Police Association of Ontario: Mr. Larry Wood, and, from Brantford, Ontario, Mr. Mark Baxter. Welcome. Thank you for joining us today at Queen’s Park.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I used to get the last word. The member from Kitchener–Conestoga.

Mr. Michael Harris: Sorry, Speaker. I really want to introduce some of Waterloo region’s finest, who are here with us today in question period for the first time. Welcome, folks, to Queen’s Park.

Oral Questions

Hydro rates

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Minister of Energy. I recently toured the Ottawa Mission. They do fantastic work supporting some of the city’s most vulnerable, the people who need our assistance the most. But now even the mission itself needs Ontario’s help.

They told me one of the issues facing the mission and their ability to succeed is skyrocketing hydro rates. The Liberal hydro plan is taking important, precious funds away from the mission helping take care of Ottawa’s most vulnerable. Instead, the services that the mission wants to provide, they can’t, because of this hydro mess.

Mr. Speaker, do the Liberals believe that places like the Ottawa Mission should be paying for hydro over helping the most vulnerable?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m pleased to rise to that question. We’ve done, on this side of the House, many things that help residents that actually use the mission, but also help organizations like the mission who are doing great work to actually find ways to reduce their energy consumption. Come January 1, Mr. Speaker, they’re going to see their electricity bill reduced by 8% thanks to this government bringing forward a bill to permanently remove the HST from their bills.

There are also many things that we are doing to help the residents that actually use the shelter. For those that actually need some assistance, they can actually get it from this side, the government. We also have a great minister looking into housing and poverty. So we’re doing many things to help these families.

But I find it very interesting, coming from a party that has no plan on electricity, Mr. Speaker. They have no idea. The only thing they want to do is go back to burning coal. That’s not what we will do on this side of the House. We’ll continue to advocate for a clean, reliable system.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the minister: No one believes for a second that hydro bills are going down under this government. Years of Liberal scandal, waste and mismanagement have created a hydro crisis in our province. It’s because of that crisis that Ontario businesses and families are struggling to pay their bills. Small businesses are the backbone of our economy, but because of Liberal rate increases, many are faced with the prospect of closing their doors.

Recently I visited the Grimsby Diner. The Grimsby Diner is only open during peak hours. It has no choice but to pay the most expensive rates in North America; they can’t choose when to serve breakfast. But within a one-year period, the business’s hydro bills—

Interjections.

Mr. Patrick Brown: I know the Liberals don’t want to hear this, and they heckle me. They don’t want to hear it. But this business’s bills in one year have gone up 25%. My question to the Minister of Energy: Rather than spin and attacking others, what are you going to do to keep small businesses afloat in the province of Ontario?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m very pleased, again, to rise and to talk about the great programs that we put in place, Mr. Speaker, to help small businesses. We’re going to see that 8% reduction as of January 1 for many small businesses right across the province, as well as family farms. They’re going to see an 8% reduction.

We’re also seeing the ICI program which is going to open up for another 1,000 businesses. That’s going to really help many of our small- and medium-size enterprises right across our great province. When you talk about the ICI program, we’ve had 80 new participants just recently come and sign up for that program, because they know that they can actually save up to one third on their hydro bills. That’s something that they’re very excited about.

On this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, we’re going to continue to invest in a clean, reliable system. On that side of the House, they have no plan. The only thing that they want to go back to is burning coal.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Minister of Energy: All we hear are false allegations and more Liberal spin. Mr. Speaker, you hear the Minister of Energy—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Start the clock. Finish, please.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Energy says they have an 8% rebate. What he doesn’t mention is the 10% clean energy rebate is gone. Hydro bills are not going down and Ontarians are growing tired of the excuses. The fact that I heard that in Ottawa–Vanier, a Liberal campaign worker told an individual struggling with his bill that they had to put on a winter coat and turn down their—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You’re not being helpful, member from Leeds–Grenville, when I’m trying to get the other side’s attention.

Mr. Steve Clark: Sorry, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Now I’m contemplating going into warnings. I’ll let you know quickly if you’ve decided you want that.

Finish, please.

Mr. Patrick Brown: I can tell you that Michel in Ottawa–Vanier didn’t appreciate being told to put on a winter coat and turn down the thermostat by Liberal headquarters. I’ll give you a little piece of friendly advice: that shouldn’t be your talking point. We want answers. We want solutions. Frankly, Michel in Ottawa, he deserves an apology. Will the Minister of Energy and will the Premier apologize for that callous comment?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Some members are helping me make that decision very quickly, particularly those that try to claim that they don’t heckle.

Minister.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: The only party that should be apologizing is that party for leaving our system in decay for so long. It was this government that actually had to step up and fix it, making sure that we invested in a clean and reliable system. We actually stopped burning coal on this side of the House. You know what? On that side of the House, they have no plan. They have nothing to tell Michel.

On this side of the House, we have many things to tell Michel: an 8% reduction coming January 1, six programs that are there to help him. We also have great work in many other aspects when it comes to energy.

So we don’t have a problem standing up and talking about a system that we had to clean up from them. We are very proud of what we’ve done, and we’ll continue to advocate for the people of this province.

First responders

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Deputy Premier. On my first day in the Legislature, I stood up and called on the government to create a heroes’ fund for our province’s first responders, for the families that have lost a loved one, a hero in our community.

I think back to nine years ago when a Midhurst resident just outside of Barrie, Detective Constable Rob Plunkett, lost his life in the line of duty. It shook our community. I remember the impact it had on Barrie and Simcoe county. Sadly, tragedies like Detective Constable Rob Plunkett happen far too often. Families of our fallen officers need the province’s full support.

On my first day as an MPP in the Legislature, I asked this question. The Premier said it would be considered. Here we are a year later, and I’m asking the Deputy Premier to update us. Will we take care of our first responders? Will we take care of our fallen heroes and their families?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Thank you for the question. I think all members of the House are pleased to see our first responders here with us today who are represented by our police officers in the province of Ontario. One of the things I think you can do to best serve the people that serve us—the people that are running into buildings when we’re running out, the people that are going after the people that have violent thoughts on their mind and even violent actions—is to ensure that when they run into some trouble, when they find themselves in a situation where PTSD becomes a real reality to that person—in the past we’ve put that away. In the past we haven’t dealt with it.

This government decided it was going to deal with it. It was going to deal with it upfront. It brought in Bill 163, which provides presumptive legislation for those people that help us when we need that help the most. The best thing that any government can do to demonstrate its support is to ensure that its province leads the country—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Deputy Premier. The bill on PTSD only happened after the opposition shamed the government for six months. My question was on a heroes’ fund, and I did not get an answer on a heroes’ fund, so I’ll try something different—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order, please.

First, I don’t need opposition members to armchair whether or not I’m going to stand. Second of all, we’re moving to warnings. That’s what you asked for; you’re getting it. And I’ll be strict.

Finish, please.

Mr. Patrick Brown: I did not get an answer on the heroes’ fund, so I’ll try something else. The Liberals have now cut, pretty much across the board, mental health facilities in the province of Ontario. We’ve read out in this Legislature the staff cuts at each facility. In fact, this is actually causing the police to do work that they’re not initially required or meant to do. Between 2007 and 2013, the OPP saw a 42% increase in calls for services related to mental health because we underfund mental health in the province of Ontario.

My question is to the Deputy Premier: Will we see a real commitment to mental health? Because if you download it, you still pay for it. There is one taxpayer. We need proper support for—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Minister.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Let me set the record straight on the PTSD bill, which deals directly with the mental health of the first responders that go out each and every day to help protect this community. You were nowhere to be found when this bill started out. You were—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Davenport is warned. The member from Simcoe–Grey is warned. Anyone else?

The member will address the Chair.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: There are an awful lot of people who have put an awful lot of work into the post-traumatic stress disorder bill that’s going to serve the first responders that serve this community. It came from the first responders themselves. It involved a round table. It involved summit meetings. It involved getting all the input to make this province a leader when it comes to post-traumatic stress disorder.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Dufferin–Caledon is warned.

Wrap up, please.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: It came also with the support of a member of the third party, Cheri DiNovo, the member from Parkdale–High Park. Instead of just chirping on the sidelines, she had her sleeves rolled up and she was working on this issue.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Deputy Premier: The shootings have continued in Ottawa and this government has cancelled the funding for Ottawa’s anti-guns and gangs unit.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the mayor of Ottawa, former Liberal cabinet minister Jim Watson, posed a demand and a question to this government recently in his Ottawa survey. Mayor Watson wrote, “Ottawa has seen an increase in the number of shootings in our city. Would you support providing ongoing sustainable funding for our Ottawa Police DART and guns and gangs teams” that have been cut by the province, so that they can actually “combat this serious challenge?”

The PC Party supports restoring the funding, but it appears the Liberals do not. Mr. Speaker, my question to the government is, will they commit today to restoring the funding they cut? And if they won’t do it for the PCs, if they won’t do it for public safety in Ottawa, will you do it for Jim? Will you support public safety—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. The Minister—

Mr. Patrick Brown: Do it for Jim.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): That’s not helpful. And the Minister of Children and Youth Services is warned.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Thank you, Speaker. The Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. David Orazietti: I appreciate the question from the member opposite. First of all, the member opposite needs to get his facts correct, because they’re wrong. The city of Ottawa Police Service received over $7 million in funding in 2015-16. Let’s stop misrepresenting what Mayor Watson says.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Beaches–East York is warned.

The minister will withdraw.

Hon. David Orazietti: I withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Carry on.

Hon. David Orazietti: So we’ll call that “inaccuracy,” and we’ll go on to say that there’s in fact an increase of $300,000 in funding at Ottawa Police Service. In fact, they’ve hired 25 additional officers, and we continue to invest in these resources to support our police services.

But here, let me read you something else, Speaker. This is really important. In the by-election going on right now, Bruce Chapman said this of the opposition: “Your decision to endorse Mr. Marin is an insult to the work done by the thousands of men and women who have chosen policing in Ontario as a profession.”

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Etobicoke North is warned. As a reminder to those who think they can still get quips in: Once you’re warned, the next time you’re out.

New question.

By-election in Sudbury

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Acting Premier. Pat Sorbara was charged with two counts of violating the Election Act. The first charge involves and relates to Andrew Olivier and includes a recording where Ms. Sorbara allegedly says the following: “You’re being asked to do the ... favour I guess to make the sacrifice this time, and that can also go a long way, in terms of opening up options....”

The second count reads as follows: that Ms. Sorbara did “directly or indirectly give, procure or promise or agree to procure an office of employment to induce a person, to wit, Glenn Thibeault, to become a candidate contrary to

section 96.1(

e) of the Election Act.”

Now, the Attorney General and the government continue to say that the Minister of Energy is not involved in this matter in any way whatsoever. However, the OPP believe that he was directly offered a bribe, that there’s an allegation of a bribe and he’s the subject matter of it. Does the government believe that this is appropriate in any way?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Deputy Premier.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Attorney General.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: One of the things I did the other day is that I looked at the member opposite’s bio, to see what kind of things he’s done in his life. In his bio, he talks quite openly and passionately about how he was a defence counsel. He helped a lot of people within our criminal justice system, which is admirable. As a lawyer, I can tell you that is admirable work, and I thank him for doing that.

But I also know that as a result of his education and his legal profession, he very fundamentally believes in the presumption of innocence. He also very much believes in the role of our court system and how individuals should have their time in court—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Essex is warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: —that individuals should have their time in court. So I hope the member will remember all those principles, all those key aspects of our justice system when he’s asking these questions in the House. He knows very much that this is not the place to litigate a matter that is before the courts.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I absolutely believe in the presumption of innocence. I think that it’s a very powerful principle. But the reality is that the Minister of Energy is the subject matter of a serious offence, even though it’s an allegation. The allegation is that Ms. Sorbara is charged with allegedly bribing the Minister of Energy to run for the Premier’s party. Given that direct allegation, it’s appropriate for the government to do something.

If the government won’t ask the minister to step aside now, will they ask the minister to step aside if Ms. Sorbara is found guilty of this offence?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: The member opposite believes in the presumption of innocence, but he has made a determination, in his mind, that the Minister of Energy somehow is guilty. That’s exactly what his questions point to. This is not the place or the venue to have that conversation.

Speaker, you have spoken about that issue. The standing orders rules are very clear that when it comes to matters before the courts, the most appropriate venue for that matter to be discussed is in the courthouse, not in the Legislature. We should not be engaging or doing anything that is going to prejudice the court’s proceedings.

I ask the member opposite—he knows his training well. I know his beliefs. He believes in the presumption of innocence. He believes in the fact that the courts are the venues where matters are to be dealt with. Our standing orders rules are very clear. I hope that he respects the rules.

Let’s discuss issues that are very important to Ontarians, like building this province up, like building our infrastructure, schools and hospitals.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Again, the minister is confusing the issue here. We’re not talking about whether the minister is guilty of an offence. He’s simply the subject matter of an allegation. Given that he’s the subject matter of an allegation, it’s appropriate for him to step down.

If the government wants to show the people of Ontario and the people of Sudbury that they’re serious about running an open and honest and transparent government, it would maintain integrity and faith in the government if the government would do the right thing. Protecting Liberal insiders that the OPP believed are the subject matter of an offence is not being open and transparent.

The government is good at talking the talk, but they’re not good at walking the walk. Walking the walk would require the government to do something to ensure that people have faith in this system.

When will the government finally do the right thing and during these allegations—he’s not guilty of an offence—have the minister step aside?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Eglinton–Lawrence is warned.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Again, having something alleged against you or being a subject matter of an allegation, as the member opposite puts it, does not make you guilty, does not somehow confirm that you did something wrong. There are no charges laid against the Minister of Energy. The matters in question have nothing to do with the scope of his job as the Minister of Energy.

I think that what’s happening is the third party, the NDP, cannot get over the fact that they lost their seat and that the member, who used to belong to the NDP, saw the light, became a Liberal, worked extremely hard, got elected and continues to serve his riding every single day with full vigour. They cannot get over the fact, so they’re making a personal vendetta against the Minister of Energy, against the member for Sudbury, who is a passionate advocate for his community.

We stand with him. We stand for everything he’s doing in his community of Sudbury, and he’ll continue to serve—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

New question.

Hospital funding

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the Acting Premier. Both the Liberals and the Conservatives have a disappointing record when it comes to health in west Niagara. Thousands of people had to rally in the 1990s to stop the Conservatives from shutting down West Lincoln Memorial Hospital. They had to rally again in 2012 when the Liberals cancelled the new hospital redevelopment project.

Today, the hospital is still in desperate need of replacement. We’re hearing about serious challenges in the emergency department, and now, through freedom of information, New Democrats have learned that the medical and surgical beds at West Lincoln Memorial have been operating at over 100% capacity for the past 12 months straight.

Why is this Liberal government forcing hospitals like West Lincoln Memorial to become dangerously overcrowded and forcing patients to pay the price?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: To the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate the nicely timed question today. The provision of health services, including through our hospitals, is one of the top priorities of this government. Obviously, as Minister of Health, it is my top priority. That’s why we continue to make investments, as recently as this week, with an additional $140 million announced in the fall economic statement. This fiscal year, it goes specifically to operating costs for our hospitals. That means that this year in total, the increase in operating funding to hospitals right across this province is in excess of 3%.

I can guarantee the member opposite that that announcement this week includes an increase in the operating funding this year for West Lincoln hospital. It includes, as well, earlier this year in January, where we announced that we provided an additional $4.9 million to West Lincoln. West Lincoln is a preoccupation of mine. I know it’s situated within the network that’s represented by Hamilton Health Sciences.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: Actually, Minister, I’m surprised at that answer. Medical and surgical beds should have a maximum occupancy of 85% to 90%. He knows that, as a physician. That’s what the local LHIN said, which you guys appointed—the LHIN. But under the Liberal government, West Lincoln’s medical and surgical beds have been forced to operate at over 100% capacity for 23 of the last 30 months. And this September, the occupancy rate soared to 120%. That’s a shocking statistic, Speaker.

The number represents real lives. It’s real people who are forced to deal with overcrowded conditions and long waits in hospital hallways. When will this Liberal government get serious about the state of our hospitals? When will they finally tackle the dangerous overcrowding in Ontario hospitals?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I know that this is an important issue. We’ve received a proposal from Hamilton Health Sciences. The member opposite knows that that network of hospitals has responsibility, including for West Lincoln hospital. They have submitted a proposal and they’ve prioritized certain investments that they believe are both opportune and appropriate for West Lincoln as well as other hospital members of that network. We’re looking at that and we’re working closely with Hamilton Health Sciences.

I do also know that our member, or rather I should say the Liberal candidate—

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The future member.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —hopefully the future member—the Liberal candidate running in the by-election in Niagara, Vicky Ringuette, is strongly focused on working towards improving the conditions in the emergency in the general hospital at West Lincoln. It’s one of her top priorities. I know that it’s an issue that’s important to the individuals in that by-election. I suspect that’s why the member raised it today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Paul Miller: West Lincoln hospital has been operating at the current site since the 1940s. So on top of a dangerously high occupancy rate, the hospital’s infrastructure is totally outdated. I toured it; it’s pathetic. Once upon a time, the Liberal government knew that this hospital needed to be rebuilt, but in the 2012 budget, the Liberals cancelled the redevelopment with a stroke of a pen. The people of west Niagara need quality health care in an updated facility, but under the Liberal government, West Lincoln hospital is outdated, overcrowded and antiquated. And this government is doing nothing to help patients and staff there.

When will this government stop doing what the Conservatives did, stop cutting our hospitals and finally rebuild the West Lincoln Memorial Hospital, which services a large area and is close to my constituency also?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Again, I appreciate the fact that the member opposite has raised this issue. There is a process in place. I hope he would agree that it’s incumbent upon us to work with the LHIN and work with the local hospital network, the Hamilton Health Sciences network, to determine the priorities, to look to them with regard to recommendations on how we can continue to build the health services throughout that entire region—just like we’ve committed to a new Niagara hospital, just like we’ve built a new hospital in St. Catharines. These are important investments, and we’ll continue to make them.

In the meantime, I think that it is important that Ontarians, and particularly the people who utilize that hospital, understand that we made an additional nearly $5-million investment in the capital costs earlier this year, as well as an increase announced just this week, which will provide additional funds to deal with some of those pressures.

Education funding

Mr. Todd Smith: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. My question is for the Minister of Education this morning.

Minister, last spring your predecessor was on the verge of closing the province’s demonstration schools. That would have ended all hope for some of Ontario’s children with severe learning disabilities.

While the former Minister of Education insisted that money wasn’t an issue, the public accounts tell a different story. The schools in Belleville, Milton, London, Brantford and Ottawa are paying $700,000 more per year on their electricity bills than they were in 2009. The Centre Jules-Léger school, CJL, in downtown Ottawa and Sagonaska school in my riding have seen their hydro spike by 62%. That has an effect on the bottom line.

Speaker, is the minister okay with flushing that much money out of classrooms at CJL in downtown Ottawa and Sagonaska to pay for her government’s disastrous energy policy?

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: I want to thank the member opposite for that question. Mr. Speaker, our government is very committed to ensuring that all students who require support receive that support. The work that we’re doing in our provincial demonstration schools is ensuring that students who have a learning disability get the supports they need.

I was very proud, after the consultation process happened, that we looked at, how do we bring these great services that are happening in our provincial demonstration schools closer to local communities and into local school boards? That is exactly what we’re doing. I had the opportunity to announce that we have a pilot program in eight boards that are looking at that exact question: How do we actually bring these great services to our local communities so that all students who need the support and the services have them closer to home?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Todd Smith: Back to the minister: Millions of dollars are being flushed out of our school system because of this government’s reckless electricity policy.

The reason we know how much is being pulled out of our provincial schools is because those provincial schools don’t belong to a school board. We don’t know how much the other schools across the province are seeing their electricity costs go up, even though the government’s own document states, “The increase in estimates from 2015-16 to 2016-17 primarily reflects increases in operating costs including utilities.” That has to be millions and millions of dollars from our school system.

Parents deserve to know how much the Liberal energy policies are having an effect on our education system. Speaker, can the minister tell us: Can she address the electricity issue? How many educational assistants, early childhood educators and other support staff have been flushed out of our schools because of their reckless Liberal energy policies?

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: It’s really sad, it’s quite unfortunate that the member opposite has forgotten that he ran on a policy of cutting supports and services in our school system—100,000 jobs. In fact, they were very, very proud of the fact that they were going to reduce supports for teachers and education workers in our classrooms.

Mr. Speaker, this government has provided more education funding on a per student, per pupil basis than in any other time—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Windsor West and the member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound are warned.

Finish, please. Wrap up.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: Mr. Speaker, we’ve increased, since 2002-03, funding to our education system by—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Prince Edward–Hastings is warned.

Finish, please.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: We’ve increased funding by 59%, Mr. Speaker—59%. We’ve increased the per pupil funding by $4,500, and that includes all of our students in special education who need that support.

Mental health services

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Far too many people in Ontario are living through a mental health care crisis because they can’t get the care they need. My constituent Jan walked into the emergency department at London Health Sciences Centre in desperate need for mental health care. She was in complete distress after days of suffering alone, but Jan waited seven hours in emergency before being told that no mental health beds were available and the best she could do was to add her name to an ever-growing wait-list for mental health services.

My question is simple. Why is this government still failing people like Jan, who need mental health care in London and just can’t get it?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’m sorry that Jan did not receive the care that she deserved and that we have a responsibility to provide in a timely fashion. Obviously I don’t know the specifics of the individual’s situation, but I need to speak to the fact that we have made, as I would describe, remarkable investments in mental health in this province. Not just financial investments, but I think we have created a culture where all of us acknowledge and are more comfortable and more deliberate in speaking openly about mental health challenges that Ontarians face. It is one out of every five Ontarians.

We have doubled—added—an additional $500 million to the mental health budget since we took office, and we’re adding more than $200 million to that over the course of the next three years.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: The police association is here today, and they know Jan’s story is all too common. Despite what the government says, the people in London know there is a crisis in mental health care. People who are thinking about suicide and living in complete distress cannot get the immediate care and support. We have a serious problem. We are at a tipping point, yet this government refuses to tackle overcrowding in our hospitals and refuses to eliminate the wait-list for mental health care.

What will it take for this government to listen to Jan and thousands of people like her who need mental health care but just can’t get it?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Our priority, of course, has to be to focus on individual patients like Jan to make sure that she’s getting the support that she needs. It’s also important to recognize that we are transitioning into what I would describe as a better model of providing mental health services for many, many individuals who face challenges, and that’s actually providing those strong supports within the community.

In fact, we’ve done just that in London itself, where we have funded this year a brand new mental health and addictions crisis centre that, on an outpatient basis, provides wraparound supports and intersections with other community agencies for more than 2,000 additional Londoners and people from the London region than were provided with that service before.

It’s that combination of making sure that the hospital services are there for those who truly need hospital services, but that our community supports are strong and are able to provide the support as well.

Adoption

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: My question is for the Minister of Children and Youth Services. Minister, as an educator and as a parent, I know that being part of a stable family unit positively impacts a child’s health, well-being and potential for success. This November marks Adoption Awareness Month, and we know adoption can provide a lifetime of benefits for children.

As an adoptee myself, I have been the recipient of a very positive family organization. I thank my biological and adoptive parents for this. In Ontario there are many children and youth currently eligible and deserving of adoption. It is important that these children and youth find good permanent homes with loving and caring families that can positively impact their lives.

Speaker, can the minister tell the House what he is doing to ensure children and youth in care find a permanent home with a loving and caring family?

Hon. Michael Coteau: I want to start by thanking the member from Barrie for this important question. I know that she has been a lifelong supporter of young people here in the province of Ontario as an educator. Thank you very much.

Mr. Speaker, there’s no question in my mind that when a young person is placed into a supportive family that is caring, stable and permanent, they benefit from this. We’ve taken a number of steps at our ministry to make sure we put in place a process that is more efficient and more effective to ensure that young people have permanent homes. We’ll continue to make improvements.

What we’re doing is, we’ve added program support to AdoptOntario that supports matching children and youth with families. My ministry recently announced 50 new adoption recruiters here in the province of Ontario who will work right across the province to connect young people to families. In addition, we’re partnering with Wendy’s Wonderful Kids to support new recruitments.

This is an ongoing process—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: Thank you to the minister for his response. Our province is working hard to ensure that children and youth in care find good families and permanent homes. However, adopting children can have a significant financial impact on a family and be a potential barrier for a family looking to adopt. Families may also face financial barriers that limit the level of care that they can provide for an adopted child.

Can the minister tell us about what he is doing to support families who adopt and to ensure that all youth and children who are adopted have a chance to achieve their full potential?

Hon. Michael Coteau: Again, I want to thank the member for the question. There is no question in my mind that financial consideration for families who are looking to adopt are something that they think about, so we’ve put in place some measures to make sure that it’s easier for families as they go forward for adoption.

Families that decide to adopt or take legal custody of siblings who are eight years old or older are provided with $1,035 for each child per month. In addition to that, we’re providing $5,000 to families that provide customary caregiving to children from indigenous communities to stay connected with their communities, so they can stay home and be raised in the neighbourhoods and the communities that they’re brought up in.

In addition, my ministry recently announced that we will provide support for adoptive families who have young people in post-secondary education. We’re going to continue to make improvements for adoptees across the province and their families.

By-election in Sudbury

Mr. Steve Clark: My question is for the Deputy Premier. With the two by-elections taking place tomorrow, I thought it would be timely to revisit a question I asked the Premier on April 29, 2015.

We know from a freedom-of-information request that Pat Sorbara called the deputy director of HR in the Premier’s office of public appointments and human resources on December 10, 2014. A day later, Andrew Olivier taped a conversation in which Gerry Lougheed Jr. offered him appointments, jobs, or whatever. Two days later, Pat Sorbara was recorded discussing a full- or part-time job at a constituency office, appointments to boards or commissions or the executive, with Mr. Olivier.

Did the Deputy Premier, as Liberal campaign co-chair, authorize or have any knowledge that the Premier’s former deputy chief of staff made that call as part of the plan to get Andrew Olivier to quietly step aside?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I’ve delicately dealt with this as much as I possibly can. I’m going to ask the member to be very careful of how he places his questions, and he’s at that line that I asked people not to go to. So I’m going to allow the question and let him know that I’m listening very carefully to that—and the response.

Carry on.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Attorney General.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, herein lies the challenge which I think you are grappling with as well, that the member opposite is presenting allegations like facts. That’s what he is doing, because everything that he’s stating are allegations in this matter, and that is why we have a court process where a judge, based on all the appropriate functions of a court and all the rules of evidence and constitutional guarantees that are accorded to those who are alleged to have committed—those issues get tested, and a judge will determine.

That is why, Speaker, we have the sub judice rule in our standing orders. This is not the place to litigate matters. That is what the member opposite is doing. It’s inappropriate, Speaker. You have spoken to it, and I think the member opposite knows that and he should follow the rule.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I’m going to bring clarity to this. I’m referring to standing order 23(h), as opposed to what the minister is saying. So I’m very careful to make sure that I’m listening, that a contravention of 23(

h) is not made, and I’m telling the member that he’s desperately close and it shall not happen.

The minister understands that I’m not referring to what he’s talking about.

Carry on, please.

Mr. Steve Clark: Back to the Deputy Premier: I’m still trying to get answers. The people of Niagara, Grimsby, Pelham, West Lincoln and Ottawa–Vanier simply don’t believe the Premier’s deputy chief of staff would call the person responsible for public appointments all on her own. And if she had, why didn’t the Premier cut her loose after this call was revealed a year and a half ago? She should have been furious with Pat Sorbara for dragging her office even deeper into this scandal. Someone from the Premier’s office or campaign must have known or authorized Sorbara to make the call.

Does the Deputy Premier and Liberal campaign chair regret not advising the Premier to have Pat Sorbara step aside earlier? Or does she agree with the Premier and still believe, as the Premier stated while the OPP were investigating, that Pat Sorbara did nothing wrong?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Mr. Speaker, perhaps the member opposite is trying to imitate Perry Mason or Columbo or one of the other characters from a television series in this House.

The member opposite knows very well that this is not the venue to ask these questions. There are allegations against two individuals who are not members of this House. That matter is before the courts. The most appropriate place for those matters to be—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): It’s never too late to receive a warning or be named—never.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: The member opposite can ask as many questions as he wants to in this House. He knows that this matter is before the courts. The most appropriate place for this matter to be discussed is in the courts. We trust the court system, and we’ll let that be determined there.

Air-rail link

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: This question is to the Acting Premier.

Before the last election, the former Minister of Transportation promised that the Union Pearson Express would be electrified by 2017. But after the election, the government said electrification would have to wait until as late as 2024, as a new environmental assessment is completed. That EA was supposed to have been completed last month, but it hasn’t even started. Instead, the government announced another “pre-consultation,” further delaying progress on electrification.

Will the minister tell us exactly when the last diesel train will run on the UP Express?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I’d like to thank the member for her question this morning. I understand that, not only in her community but, in particular, in communities like Davenport and York South–Weston, there is a great deal of interest in this particular topic.

What I can tell that member—and she would know this, I believe—is that in my mandate letter that I received from the Premier in 2014, it was clearly spelled out that I was responsible for delivering on GO regional express rail, which happens to include the electrification of the Kitchener corridor and the entirety of the UP Express corridor all the way to the airport, and that consistent with our mandate from the people of Ontario, that work was to be completed within 10 years from 2014. The member knows this. So 2024 is the point at which we are committed to delivering on the full picture of GO regional express rail, and we are on track to deliver within that time frame.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Again, back to the minister: The minister, by the way, also keeps delaying progress on GO rail electrification, but the minister is willing to accelerate the construction of a 1.5-kilometre bridge that will carve a scar through the Davenport neighbourhood. The minister refuses to consider the benefits of a tunnel or a trench, as proposed by the city of Toronto, instead of this super-bridge, and it’s becoming clear that the trains running along this bridge will in fact be diesel, not electric.

Why is the minister fast-tracking a 1.5-kilometre super-bridge through Davenport and steamrolling over community concerns, while dragging his feet on the electrification of regional express rail and the UP Express?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I actually don’t know where to begin with all of the unfortunate allegations, I suppose, that are contained in that particular question.

First of all, let me say that the member of provincial Parliament for the riding of Davenport, who is sitting right back there, has been such a staunch champion for her community on this particular issue and all of the issues related to this.

The member asking the question would know that we conducted a town hall meeting, organized by the member from Davenport, in that community so that I could specifically hear the concerns of the community loudly and clearly.

But I find it remarkable that that member would on the one hand want to say, “Why aren’t you delivering transit more quickly?” and on the other hand say, “Why are you working so hard to deliver transit so quickly?”

Again, it’s completely consistent with the bizarre approach of Ontario’s NDP. They claim they want more but they don’t want to deliver more. The member from Davenport, our Premier and this team are in fact delivering more. Thanks very much, Speaker.

Social assistance

Mr. Arthur Potts: My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. Speaker, as you know, this government values the idea that every member of society should be supported, especially at times when they are most in need. Early in our mandate I made a commitment to my constituents in Beaches–East York that I would address poverty issues in our community, and I’m very proud of the work that our government is doing in this area.

So many vulnerable Ontarians are served by the programs that the Ministry of Community and Social Services administers. Thanks to the work of our minister and our government there has been demonstrable progress to improve the supports that are offered by Ontario Works and the Ontario Disability Support Program for people who are in need. This government is creating a province where every citizen has a quality of life that is deserved, and we are giving them the opportunity to find their independence and to feel included in society.

Speaker, through you, would the minister please enlighten this House on the improvements made to social assistance in Ontario?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Thank you to the member for Beaches–East York for the question and also his advocacy on behalf of vulnerable Ontarians.

As Minister of Community and Social Services, I was given a clear mandate by our Premier to drive long-term transformation of the social assistance system. Our government has embraced this challenge in signalling its intention to transform social assistance as part of our broader efforts to reduce poverty and build a fairer society.

Earlier this year we announced that there will be no provincial clawback of child support payments to families on social assistance. This means that nearly 19,000 families will see their income rise by an average of $282 more per month, or $3,380 annually, most of whom are single-parent households.

We also became the first province to ensure that families receiving social assistance would not have the new federal Canada child benefit clawed back, a benefit to 260,000 children.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Arthur Potts: Thank you, Minister. Thank you so much for that answer and for the incredible work that you are doing to support the most vulnerable in our society.

We know that Ontario’s most valuable resource is its people. They are the key to our collective prosperity. That’s why I’m very proud of our government, that we are dedicated to ensuring all Ontarians reach their full potential through access to high-quality education, quality health care, rewarding employment opportunities and very strong social services.

This government set out ambitious plans to help all Ontarians succeed, including these investments in the Ontario Child Benefit, health benefits for low-income children, a Long-Term Affordable Housing Strategy and continued increases to the minimum wage, as well as free tuition for low-income students.

Speaker, through you to the minister: Will the minister continue to enlighten this House as to how our government is supporting Ontarians receiving social assistance?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Another initiative is that our government is simplifying the application process for young people with developmental disabilities and their families applying for ODSP. As of last month, once a person is deemed eligible for ministry-funded adult developmental services, they will no longer have to go through a second process to verify their disability to qualify for ODSP.

We’re introducing improvements to the adjudication and medical review process for people with disabilities who receive ODSP. Moreover, we have also introduced a reloadable payment card to ODSP clients as a safer, easier way to access their benefits without having to use expensive cheque-cashing services. Once implemented in ODSP, we will begin work to implement the card for Ontario Works as well.

This is just a snapshot of some of our improvements that we’re making to the social assistance system.

Human trafficking

Ms. Laurie Scott: To the Minister of Finance: The government’s fall fiscal update is full of unwelcomed surprises for Ontarians. I for one was saddened, but hardly surprised, to find proof that they are failing to respond to the issue of human sex trafficking. We read on page 135 of their fiscal update document that, to date, the Liberal government has spent only a meagre $1.4 million on their strategy to end human trafficking, when they promised up to $72 million. That’s not even 2%.

I was just in Ottawa last week, meeting with victims, police and support organizations, where I heard that this urgently needed funding is nowhere to be found. This is a critical issue in Ottawa and across the province and it requires immediate action, not press releases. There are victims every day. When will this government finally give up on their game of smoke and mirrors and take this issue seriously?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Minister of women’s issues.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I want to thank the member opposite for the question. This government takes the issue of human trafficking very seriously. We know it’s a devastating crime, a human rights violation, and that’s exactly why we launched our anti-human trafficking strategy in June of this year. There is money attached to that, and we are working very closely with our federal and municipal partners and other stakeholders to move this strategy forward.

As the member opposite knows, there is a very strong focus on coordinating all the services that are required to support victims and to support the victims who need services who face this devastating crime. The strategy also focuses on, of course, holding traffickers accountable.

We are very committed to this strategy. Work is under way now, and it’s a cross-ministry effort with my colleagues.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Laurie Scott: But this is a criminal issue. For months all we’ve heard from the government about this issue has come in the form of bits and pieces of information added to press releases. Now we understand why: There is actually no real strategy, when they made their announcement back in June. It’s almost five months of inaction. Meanwhile, organizations in Ottawa and across the province are waiting to see any of the support that they were promised by this government.

Once again, how can the government possibly claim that it is acting to address this urgent issue when their own numbers say exactly the opposite?

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. David Orazietti: I appreciate the question from the member opposite. This is not a partisan issue. We take this issue very seriously. We’re committed to making the investment of $72 million. We are working to create an anti-human trafficking intelligence team inside the OPP, and we are committed, Speaker, to the work that is being done through the Ontario Police College to raise the level of training for officers, with regard to human trafficking.

We continue to make investments right across the province: in Halton, $38,000; in Hamilton, $159,000 with their police services; in Niagara, $140,000; in Peel region, $190,000; in Windsor, $162,000; in York, $132,000; in Barrie, $85,000; and in Guelph, $63,000. Speaker, we’re making these investments. I take the concerns of the member very seriously, and we do on this side of the House as well.

Horse racing industry

Mr. Taras Natyshak: My question is to the Acting Premier. Speaker, three years ago I stood in this House and asked the Premier to explain her plan for horse racing in the province. When I asked her why she was betting the farm on the Woodbine Racetrack and handing more market share to a then not-for-profit giant, the Premier answered that what I was saying was just not true.

Will the acting Premier explain why Ontario Racing is currently consulting on a 17-year funding agreement that would effectively hand over control of horse racing in the entire province of Ontario to the now for-profit Woodbine Entertainment Group, just as I had predicted three years ago?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: To the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the question. The member opposite and all of us in this House recognize the importance of the horse racing industry as an economic industry in the province of Ontario. We want to maintain stability and growth within the industry. That is why we’ve made a commitment to a long-term sustainability of horse racing in the province, recognizing as well to maintain the viability of some of those tracks. Now, Woodbine, as a service provider, would enable us to provide for some of those deliveries.

We haven’t yet determined exactly what it will be, but those discussions are under way with all the tracks and all of those stakeholders that are engaged within this process. But it’s critical for us to continue providing a venue, a source, an enablement of providing some of that assistance to the racing community and to the breeders and to ensure its viability.

We are working closely to determine the best avenue to go forward, including governance.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Speaker, I’ve met with the farmers and the breeders who depend on a vibrant horse racing industry for their livelihoods. Horse people do not support the Premier’s plan to give total control of horse racing to the for-profit Woodbine Entertainment Group.

Small racetracks like the Lakeshore racetrack in my home community are worried about their future, but they can’t get straight answers from the Premier’s plan because it’s being developed without any transparency or accountability.

The government’s first plan to modernize horse racing was a disaster that the Auditor General said would kill rural jobs. Why should rural Ontarians believe that the Premier’s latest plan will be any better?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Actually, I agree with the member opposite. We want to ensure that all members of the horse racing community are engaged. We want to ensure transparency and governance overseeing some of that development. We want to ensure they’re actually there prior to Woodbine as a service provider of the funding. It’s why we do have a group with the Ontario racing community engaged within this.

I would like very much to have engagement of all those concerned to ensure that the viability and the use of funds are going to where they’re supposed to, and that’s to the horses and the viability and sustainability of this community.

Immigrant services

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: My question is to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Ontario is the top destination in Canada for people to build a new life for themselves and their families, just like my family did back in 1959-60.

In my riding of Northumberland–Quinte West, a significant number of constituents rely on both the provincial and municipal governments for information they need to access various programs. It is crucial to my constituents that they can easily access this information so they can settle and contribute fully to our province’s society and economy.

Can the minister share with us what programs within her ministry allow newcomers to access information so they can succeed in Ontario?

Hon. Laura Albanese: I would like to thank the hard-working member from Northumberland–Quinte West for his important question. He works hard for his constituency.

Our website, ontarioimmigrat