VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD ~J 3:00 P.M. - 6:00P.M. THURSDAY, MARCH 24, 1983 NO. 13

... Marcli 24, 2983 Tape No. 577 The House me .t at 3:00 P. M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! JV- l Before we proceed it is a pleasure for me to welcome to the galleries today twenty-six students from Carins Junior High School of North Battleford, Saskatchewan here on an open house Canada Exchange programme with Bishop Abraham Junior High School with two chaperones, Connie Ballance and Walter Kostyna and I welcome you to the galleries today. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Mr. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: Hear, hear! Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS Mr.

Speaker The hon. Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to advise han. members that a tentative agreement has been reached between government and the Newfoundland Association of Public Employees with respect to approximately 650 instructors employed with the Province<-s vocational schools, the College of Trades and Technology and the Bay St. George community College. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ DR. COLLINS: Ne-gotiations for a revised collective agreement concluded late Tuesday and a memorandum of agreement was signed earlier today.

The union will be ~ecommending acceptance of the tentative settlement in meetings to be held with their local presidents within the next two weeks. Voting by the general membership is expected shortly after these meetings. This tentative settlement is the first to be reached with our three educational bargaining groups. The other two groups in this sector are the NTA and the College of Fisheries Faculty Association. 1297

March 2.4,. ~9.83 Tape No . 577 JV - 2 DR. COLLINS: The tentative agreement with the instructors contains a salary package consistent with government's wage restraint program and it was reached without the aid of the conciliation process . Government commends the instructors' negotiating committee for their recognition of the need for wage restraint and looks forward to the ratification of this agreement by the membership within the next few weeks . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Bear , hear f 1298

March 24, 1983 Tape 578 PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I expect this is a first in this Legislature, the first tme since we brought in collective bargaining that a minister made a Ministerial Statement about a tentative agr~t. Mr. Speaker, I think it demonstrates how unsuccessful this government has been in negotiating with all of the workers in the public service, Mr. Speaker, that they have to come in and announce a tentative agreement. -- :._-:, -t ...... But, Mr. Speaker, we are delighted that at least the minister can announce a tentative agreement.

We hope that it stays intact. :-- _.· long enough ~nd that it will become a permanent agreement. Certainly .we welcome any successful negotiations by this government, if anything closely resembles success -··· ··-·-- ., I We are proud that we ha~e then we are certainly:'very proud. one group at least about to 'reach a settlement, and, as I said before,if I were these workers and the union I would get - -· . - a signature on it as quickly as possible, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Before recognizing another hon. minister, I would also like to welcome to the galleries today twenty-three university students from i~orth West River Qn the Northern Coast of Labrador who are attending Memorial University and who are in the galleries with us today. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister for Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, hon. members will remember a week or so ago in this House we indicated our disappointment and dismay at the announcement by the Iron Ore Company of Canada that they would be laying off an additional 110 workers effective May a.

Subsequent to that announcement, 1.299

March 24, 1983 Tape 578 PK - 2 MR. DAWE : of course, the Premier has carried on a number of telephone conversations and person .al discussions with the President and with other officials of the Iron Ore Company of Canada. As late as this morning he received a response to government's request that the Iron Ore Company not lay off those 110 "10rkers and that in light of the adverse affect that would have on the Labrador City are~ 1300

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 579 SD - 1 MR. DAWE: combined with the layoffs of some months ago,that that was completely unacceptable andthat they should reinstate the workers. And I would like to table for this hon. House a telegram that was sent to Mr. Robert Anderson, the Chairman of the Board of the Iron Ore Company of Canada, after a conversation the Premier had with him this morning. And it reads as follows: 'Pursuant to our telephone conversa·tion of this morning, I understand that your company is prepared to do the following relevant to your latest layoff announcement in Labrador City.

Number one, the company is prepared to reduce the layoff number from 110 to seventy-eight; and two, that the seventy-eight layoffs would not be effective until late May rather than early May. You indicated that your company is not prepared to do more on this matter. 'While the Newfoundland Government appreciates the reduction from 110 to seventy-eight, we must continue to insist that such ongoing reductions in your operation at Labrador City are creating an atmosphere of uncertainty and we continue to maintain that all 110 jobs should be reinstated.

I had proposed to you that your company reinstate all 110 and if it was necessary to r~duce production then to have an appropriate shutdown.' to table that telegram. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. MR. NEA'RY: Mr. Speaker, I would like The hon. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, if I ever saw an example of a hollow victory, we jus·t heard one announced by the Minister of Mines· and Ener<JY. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that seventy-eight more employees of the Iron Ore Company of Canada are going to 1301

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 579 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: be laid off in Labrador City. The situation in Labrador West is already desperate. They have invited the Premier to come down and hold a public meeting down there to discuss with the people plans and proposals to try to cushion the blow of all of tnes·e layoffs and the setbacks that they have had in Labrador City in the last couple of years. And up to now th.e Premier has declined to accept the-invitation from the people in Labrador West to go down and discuss these matters.

The thing that worries me, and I think worried everybody about the announcment in the beginning, Mr. Speaker, was the fact that the Iron Ore Company of Cana~a went ahead with this announce­ ment without any prior consultation with the administration. Now we have two big companies doing business in this Province thumbing their noses at the administration - Mobil Oil will not listen to a word the administration says, they are just treating them like school kids. They can yap, yap all they want and they pay no attention to them. And the same way now with the Iron Ore Company of Canada. Now, Mr.

Speaker, oht the mighty have_fallen. Nobody pays any attention to the administration anymore, Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: Neither should they. 1302

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 580 NM- 1 MR. NEARY: And as my colleague says 1 neither should they. We are rather concerned about this, Mr. Speaker, that companies like the Iron Ore Company of Canada have no respect, or no regard, or no concern for the Peck~ord Administration. Companies now announce close­ downs and layoffs 1 and I suppose after the Corner Brook experience, Mr.

Speaker, and the cover-up that took place after they held discussions with the Premier and with his colleagues, that they feel that it is useless to approach the administration because all they will do is sit on the information and cover it up anyway. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please! The time for the han. Leader of the Opposition has expired. The han. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to bring to the attention of all han. members of this House of Assembly the changes being made in our Province's student aid plan which are now the subject of public discussion.

The changes· will putthe Newfoundland and Labrador student aid plan on a par with a majority of provinces of Canada and will leave our plan a little better than some. T,he changes being made in our student aid scheme will have no effect on the most needy students who all along qualified for the maximum loans and grants. One-third of Newfoundlarld and Labrador students receiving student aid fall into this most needy category and presently draw the maximum loans as well as receive the maximum grants. 1303

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 580 N.M - 2 MS. VERGE: Loans a.re provided by the federal government under the Canada Student Loan Programme. OUtright grants or allowances are paid entirely by the provincial government. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh., oh! MR. SPEAKER (Russe:ll} : Order, please! MS. VERGE: Thank y~u, Mr. Speaker. Until now Newfoundland and Labrador have had the. most generous student aid scheme in all of Canada. According to the report of the federal/provincial implementation task force on student assistance dated October 1 1982, Mr.

Speaker, of the nine provinces participating in the Canada Stude .nt Loan Programme New:foundland and Labrador provided by far the highest percentage of aid as outright grants and the lowest percentage of aid as Canada student loans. Also our Province paid the highest average grant, $1,544 compared to $1,350 for Nova Scotia; $1,258 for Ontario; and $881 for Saskatchewan. our visitors: from Saskatchewan today may be interested in knowing that. The average grant in Newfoundland was almost twice as high as it was in Saskatchewan. 1304

March 24,1983 Tape No. 581 ah-1 MS. VERGE: Unfortunately,because of our Province's poor economic circumstances we have had to tighten our Student Aid Pro~rarnrne. It is unreasonable to expect the number ten province in Canada, with our economic problems worsened by the current recession and mistreatment by the federal governrnent 1 to continue to have the number one Student Aid Plan in the country. As much as the provincial government would like _to keep a superior Student Aid Plan,it is just no longer realistic.

The major change being made in our Student Aid Plan does not diminish the total dollars available to students. It simply requires students to borrow more from the Canada Student Loan Programme before they qualify for a provincial grant. Provincial g~ants of $1000 a semester for single students and $1250 for married will continue to be available. The other changes being implemented in our Student Aid Plan affect criteria for eligibility. These changes are based on common sense and stand on their own. The changes are as follows: (

l) Independent single students living at horne with their parents will no longer be able to claim expenses for board and lodgings.

(2) Students employed in the Summer or at any period before studies will be required to make a contribution to the cost of their studies of 45_per cent of actual earnings or 45 per cent of the minimum wage, whichever is greater. Before such students had to make a contribution of 45 per cent of the minimum wage - SOME HOM.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! MS.VERGE: Thank you , Mr.Speaker. 1305

March 24,1983 Tape No. 581 MS.VERGE: Before such students had to make a contribution of 45 per cent of the minimum wage regardless of what they actually earned even if they earned more than the minimum wage .

(3) Students taking a programme outside our Province that is available here in Newfoundland will no longer qualify for provincial government allowances. These students wil~ continue ah-2 to be eligible for Can<7da Student Loans.

(4) Mr . Speaker, students will no longer be able to receive provincial government grant s for more than eight years of post secondary study. Even with these changes in the eligibility criteri .a ,the criteria here will not be as tough as those in some other provinces. 13 06

March 24, 1983 Tape 582 EC - 1 MS VERGE: I wish to repeat, Mr. Speaker, that these changes will have no effect whatsoever on the most needy students. Before, students in this category first borrowed $575, then received a $1,000 outright grant and,third, borrowed $325 more, making a grand total of $1,900 in aid for a semester, of which $1,000 was a grant. After the changes~ the same student will have to borrow $900 before receiving the $1,000· grant, making the same aid total of $1,900 and the same grant amount of $1,000.

At a meeting with representa­ tives of the Memorial University Council of the Students' Union Executive Monday evening when we met for over an hour I told them I am available for follow-up discussions with them or any small group representing the csu. I told them, Mr. Speaker, that while government has to sit by the bottom line estimate for spending on student aid next year, we will consider modifications to the eligibility criteria changes announced. I declined an invitation to speak at a large gathering of Memorial University students at the Thompson Student Centre yesterday, contrary to incorrect news reports.

I said to the CSU president that I do not feel meaningful or productive communication could take place between me and thousands of students gathered together. "Instead," I said, "I prefer to meet with the duly elected representatives of the student body and communicate to the majority of students and the general public through the news media," if they can hear me, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the member for Terra Nova. 1307

March 24, 1983 Tape 582 EC - 2 MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, there is no question about it that in this Province since this government have assumed office that we have gone full circle with respect to education, from a free education, Mr. Speaker, from a philosophy that believed in the right to an education by all, to educational opportunity for all, we have gone from that, Mr. Speaker, now to the belief in an education for just a few, for the rich, for the wealthy, Mr. Speaker, and for the elite. That is where we have come from, Mr. Speaker. We have gone full circle.

We have gone from a philosophy of believing that education is the right for all. Now education is just the right for the few, the wealthy and the rich. That is where we have gone. What we are now doing is forcing our students to go head and ears in debt. That is what we are forcing the students to do by increasing the amount that a student has to borrow from $$75 to $900 the first semester, increasing the amount that they have to borrow before they qualify for provincial grants. Mr. Speaker, we have increased the amount by almost 60 per cent, from $575 to $900, and there is nobody in this han.

House that will not say that that is going to have a disastrous effect on education in this Province, on acce~sability to education. We are cutting off, Mr. Speaker , a number of 1308

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 583 MJ - 1 MR. T. LUSH: students who ordinarily would be able to pursue an education at the university. By this move, Mr. Speaker, we have imposed a tremendous financial burden on the students of this Province. Now, the minister talks about the fact that until now we had the most generous Student Aid Scheme in all of Canada, and so we should, Mr. Speaker. And we should continue to have · the most generous aid programme in this .country because, Mr. $peaker, we have the lowest participation rate in post secondary institutions in all of Canada.

We have the lowest participation rate, fewer students, Mr. Speaker, from this Province embark on a post secondary education than in any other province in Canada. So it is for that reason that we must keep the Student Aid Programme fairly attractive to our students and not make it less attractive. Mr. Speaker, secondly 1our students have the highest cost of living in all of Canada and thirdly, Mr. Speaker, we have the highest rate of unemployment so there is every economic factor why we should be making our Student Aid Programme more attractive and not less attractive. This is one area, Mr.

Speaker, where we should not try to get to the ·canadian . average. This is one area, Mr. Speaker, we must not equal the other the other provinces but that we must do better. Mr. Speaker, this measure of increasing the ceilin~ for the student loans is going to have a disasterous affect on education in this Province. It is going to affect accessibility and the educational opportunity and the right to an education for all of the students of this Province. Mr. Speaker, it is a S?d day, sad for the students and sad for all of Newfoundland, SOME HON. MEMBERS: ·Hear, hear! MR.C. POWER: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. 1309

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 583 11J ... 2 MR. C. POWER: Mr. Speaker, I am plea,li)ed t0 a,nnounce a new government policy with reference to the issuance of grants to Crown Land for recreational cottage lot.s. Effective immediately, Mr. ppeaker, anyone in possession of a Sununer Cottage Lease issued by the department, who has complied with the development conditions of the lease is 1310

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 584 SD - 1 MR. POWER: eligible to receive a grant. For lessees who have complied with the terms and conditions of their lease and submit an application prior to March 31st, 1984, consideration will be $1,500 less any rentals previously paid. AfterMarch 31st, 1984, the consideration for eligible lessees will be $2,500. In addition to the above considerations, the normal application and title preparation fees will apply. Notwithstanding this new policy, Mr.

Speaker, I must also emphasize government's continued concern of our cottage areas developing into residential areas and the land, once granted, being subdivided and/or developed for purposes other than for cottages. To offset this ~roblem the grants, when issued, will contain the condit£on that the land cannot be subdivided or used for purposes other than a cottage. Any violation of this condition will render the grant null and void. In addition, Mr.

Speaker, the government will be exploring alternative measures for controlling undesirable development and preventing conflicting land use within established cottage areas. In order to expedite the processing of applications for grants it will be the responsibility of the applicant to provide initial proof that the conditions of the lease have been complied w:i.th. This will be followed by an inspection by a departmental official. This policy applies only to cottage owners who have obta.ined a cottage lease from the Crown and who have complied with the terms and conditions of that leas ·e.

At the present time, Mr. Speaker, there are approximately 2, 700 outstanding cottage leas ·es of which approximately · 2,000 have complied with the development conditions and are thus immediately eligible to receive a grant undel:' 1311

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 584 SD - 2 MR. POWER: this policy. The remainder of the lessees, plus the recipients of new leases issued in the future will be eligible for a grant as the development conditions of their lease are complied with. Mr. Speaker, let me emphasize that this new policy simply gives lease holders the option of gettingeither a grant or continuing with the lease system that they now have. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. TULK: Hear, hear. The han. member for Fogo. Mr.

Speaker, let me say that it is good to see government for once bringing in the good Liberal philosophy of every person having the right to own his own property. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. ROBERTS: MR. TULK: Hear, hear. And a salmon cabin, do not forget that. It is a good thing to see this kind of thing happening. But, Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister, I think this is tqe first Ministerial Statement he has given this year since the House opened, is this his top priority? Is this the top priority that this ministe~ has? Why does he not, Mr.

Speaker, go out and look at the development plan that has been given to him for the Gander River? Why does he not make some decisions? Why does he not, perhaps, instead of coming in with this cosmetic little thing, why is he not out looking at Bowaters to see if Corner Brook has a future. MR. ROBERTS: H.e cannot do anything about B.awa,terS'. 1312

March 24, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Council,on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL: Tape 585 PK - 1 Order, please! The han. President of the Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman is debating the statement. He is talking about general governmental, general forestry, and agriculture. The statement was with respect to cottage lots and I suggest he should he should be confined to it. MR. ROBERTS: Corne en! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I mentioned yesterday the rule of relevancy is a litt~e bit difficult to make a ruling on. The hon. member for Fogo (Mr.

Tulk) seems to be straying a little from the topic, but he may continue. MR. TOBIN: MR. TULK: He is not straying, he is lost. Mr. Speaker, all I am doing is asking a few questions that arise out of this kind of statement. MR. ROBERTS : within the rules. MR. TULK: Hear, hear! It is well Why does not the minister do some meaningful things that have to be done in this Province rather than throwing us out this little piece of paper. I think it is the first statement that I have seen from him since sometime in November. Let us have some real action from the minister. MR.· ROBERTS: MR.

SPEAKER: Torngat Mountains. 1313 Hear, hear! Well said. ORAL QUESTIONS The han. member for

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 585 PK-2 MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I have several questions to the Minister of Health (Mr. House). I understand that there is going to be a meeting in North West River this Saturday coming. I am just wondering, has the minister received an invitation to attend this meeting? MR. SP~AKER (RUSSELL): The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I received a message, I think it was yesterday. MR. ROBERTS: Wrapped around a rock, no doubt. MR. HOUSE: I received an invitation to attend a meeting on Saturday afternoon at two o'clock. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WARREN: Will the minister be attending the meeting? And if not, could he give some reasons why he is not attending such an important meeting for the people of North West River? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I have advised the people - I believeit is the Health Committee in North West River - that I am not able to attend the meeting and I gave them reasons for-not attending. The meeting is taking place Saturday. I am not available to go Saturday. Besides that, I feel that my time would be better served by getting a date that is appropriate.

And I have advised them that I will attend the meeting following the week beginning the lOth. of April. MR. ROBERTS: The day the hospital will close. MR. _HOUSE: The hospital, Mr. Speaker, is not closing the lOth. of April. The hospital will be closing from three to six months following that. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, my next question 1 31 4

March 24, 1983 Tape 585 PK - 3 MR. WARREN: to the Minister of Realth, seeing he will not be attending the meeting, will his deputy minister be attending? And also in the same question, did the members on the Grenfell Health Board who were appointed by this government some two years ago, did any of those members know that the'hospital was closing down in Nor .th West River before the Budget was announced? 1 31 5

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 586 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I guess to get it straight for everybody, it is the government decides to build hospitals, and it is the government who decides to close hospitals. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HOUSE: Now, Mr. Speaker, not only that,we have been assessing hosvital situations. We have a responsibility to give the most efficient health care delivery service to the Province. ---- --' We have discussed the whole hospital system with the Grenfell Board .

There i~ no question about it , we have got statistics from thew and information. But I will say that they did not know it was going to be specifically mentioned in this Budget. No, they did not . There was no way for them to know. But the point of the matter is, with all the information we have, the discussions we have held with them over the years, we have come to the conclusion that the best possible health service can be given is the programme that we are going to be putting into place in the future. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Torngat Mountains . MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, another question to the Minister of Health is that I understood him on Monday in the House to say that one of the reasons the hospital is closing down is because it is not up to fire standards. If this is one of the reasons why the hospital is closing down,would he take the federal government up on their offer when the han. William Rompkey made an announcement today saying there is money available from the federal government to bring the building up to fire safety standards? Would the minister take money from Ottawa to bring the building up 1316

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 586 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: federal standards and also would lie reverse his decision? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Soeaker, that is a very interesting observation. :qe may have $7 m-illion or $8 mill io n or $10 million worth of buildings that need to be brought up to standard,. I wonder if the federal government will help us do that? MR. WARREN~ I am asking about the hospital in North west River. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh.~ MR. ROUSE: Mr. Speaker, that is not the basic reason for closing the hospital.

It is one of the reasons why it would be frivilous for us to keep it open because we would have to spend so much money in putting it into shape. The reason, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that here we have two hospital facilities . in a radius of about thirty miles maximum 131 7

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 587 MJ - 1 MR. W. HOUSE: One of the hospitals has a 50 per cent occupancy the other has a 39 per cent occupancy. Now the 50 per cent occupancy is at Melville and the 39 per cent at North West River. 'Ihe hospital at North West River is a very, very primary care institution. For instance,there is no surgery done there whatsoever. Only about 10 per cent of the deliveries is done there. I believe there was only eight or nine deliveries done there last year. So basically it is not really an adjunct to the health care system. What we want to do, Mr.

Speaker, is to upgrade the hospital at Melville to give a better primary and secondary care to the whole area. That can be done and it will be done, and it will serve the purpose of the people of the area much better much more cheaply and efficiently. MR. G. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the member for ~orngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, another question to the minister and probably a little bit of information. There have been twenty-one deliveries since January 1 in the North ·West River Hospital, for his information.

My next question to the minister is now that the minister has told us that within three to six months the hospital will close down in North West River,could the minister outline what consultation and planning has gone into the decision of the closing of the North West River Hospital,and what measures have been taken to upgrade the services of the Melville Hospital in Happy·Valley- Goose Bay to maintain at least the present standard of health care in Labrador~ The minister should realize that the building in Happy Valley - Goose Bay is in worse shape than the building in North West River. 131 B

March 24, 1983 MR . W. HOUSE: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR . HOUSE : Tape No. 587 MJ - 2 Mr. Speaker . The hon. the Minister of Health . Mr. Speaker , the information we have got - ~ of course the information we have got we got through the board and 1ve got through other people, experts, engineering studies and so on - is that the hospital is in reasonably good shape . The fact of the matter is that when it \>Tas determined to use that hospital after the Americans had no more use for it, or had limited use for it, it was predicated on the fact that the building was in good structural shape.

Now, getting back 1 of course, Mr. speaker, to the first part of his statement, that there was twenty - one deliveries since January, I have not got that statistic. The one I have got is the total of eleven last year . 1319

March 24,1983 Tape No. 588 ah-1 MR. HOUSE: Now he is coming up with twenty-one since January. I would have to 0uestion that particular statistic. It is,I suppose ,the kind of a thing that would happen 1 but most of the deliveries in that area have been taking place at Goose Bay, 90 per cent of them in the last year. Now, Mr. Speaker, I have mentioned to the han. member in this House that we have looked at the use of the buildings, the needs of the area, and we are given the idea that the 'Melville H~spital can be adapted to have more beds that it has,incidentially 1 The building is now under-utilized.

Even it had full occupancy it would still be under-utilized because we have more space for adding more beds. So we will be in the process in the next period to put in place the necessary planning and the necessary functions that are going to take care of the problem. Suffice iF to -say~ ~r. Speaker, the current building and the current hospital in North West River for a $2 million.expenditure is not providing what we call efficient health service. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The han. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, my final question to the minister is- I understand a member of the Grenfell board did a paper on using the hospital as a chronic patient hospital. Now does the minister have this report in his hands or know the contents of this report?

And I understand from the media this morning, listening to a tape that the minister had with CBC .in Goose Bay,that the minister was interviewed before the -Budget was brought down,and he was interviewed after the Budget was brougbtdown, which was thi~ morning, ---- .._,..._ _ so is the minister saying that the people in North West River,in coastal Labrador,do not need the hospital 1320 ~

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 588 ah-2 MR . WARREN : at North West River? Is the minister saying that the Lake Melville Hospital will better serve North West River and the coast of Labrador? MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : MR . HOUSE: The hon. Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, I have stated that there ~s a paved road between North West River and Melville Hospital. I do not know the distance but the time it takes to get there going at the ordinary speed limit is thirty-two minu tes. There is a bridge across the river there now that used to separate the community, and we are saying that, yes, we can provide a better service in Melville Hospital than we can at North West River . Regarding 1321

March 24, 1983 Tape 589 EC - 1 MR. HOUSE: the pre-Budget statement that I made, somebody phoned me from the CBC and asked me were we going to say in the Budget that the hospital was closing. And I said, 'Well, you know, I am not going to say that the hospital is closing. You will have to wait for the Budget.' But I did say that if it did not say it was closing, I would make a statement that following-day. But it said it was closing and it precluded the necessary for me to make a statement. Now, chronic care, the other thing about the chronic care.

Now, there are, I think, seven people in that hospital who are chronic care patients. Now, Mr. Speaker, the most inefficient place to keep a chronic care patient is in an acute care hospital. It is costly. It is running about $280 per day, incidentally, in North West River 1 and in our chronic care institutions it is much cheaper. And I believe_we have one, and this comes under the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) in Happy Valley - Goose Bay. I believe there are ten or twelve vacancies in that particular chronic care institution now. AN HON. MEMBER: Ten. MR. HOUSE: Ten, Mr.

Speaker, I have information recently of the press, there are ten. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker • MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, today the Ministe~ of Education (Ms Verge) took a real summersault. Back a couple of days ago, the minister carne into the House with a Ministerial Statement, inviting everybody to join in the Class for '83, inviting everybody to come back to post-secondary institutions in 1322

March 24, 1983 Tape 589 EC - 2 MR. LUSH: view of the fact that we were not going to have a ~rade XI class, a graduating class going into these post-secondary institutions next year, so we brought in this great statement asking them to join the Class for '83. MR. TULK: That is right . MR. LUSH: Today she tells them they are going to have to pay through the nose for it. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am just wondering how the minister can rationalize these two positions, in the one case, inviting everybody to join the class and then,the next day, jacking up the fees and increasing the loan ceiling? Mr.

Speaker, how can she rationalize and justify these two positions? Does she not honestly believe, sincerely believe that the measures taken by the government in the last few days with respect to increase in fees and the increase in the loan ceiling are certainly going to discourage a lot of these people from going into these post-secondary institutions who otherwise might have gone? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. the Minister of Education. 1323

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 590 NM- 1 MS. VERGE: The revised fees, tuition :- fees and recidence fees for Hemorial University and our Province's colleges and vocauional schools are still lower than those for institutions in the Maritime Provinces and most other places in Canada. Memorial un±versity, even with its recently announced 5 per cent increase in tuition fees for next year, Y~ll have fees a lot lower than those at Dalhousie University in Halifax and several other universities in the Maritime Provinces. Mr.

Speaker, I repeat that the changes in our Province's student aid plan will not , .diminish in any way the grants and loans that will be made available to the approximately one-third of our students receiving aid who are in the most needy category, and who have been drawing the maximum loans and getting the maximum grants. Those most needy students will not be affected . They will continue to be able to borrow $900 a semester and get $1,000 a semester in an outright grant, free provincial money that does not have to be repaid per semester.

The other changes that will affect the less needy students will put them in no worse a position than their counterparts in other provinces of Canada and will leave them in some respects better off than their fellow students elsewhere in Canada. Mr. Speaker, enrollment in our Province's post-secondary institutions continues to climb as our participation rate improves. Granted 1it is still not as high as we would ~ike,hut it is improving by leaps and bounds . This September, September of 1982, first year enrollment at Memorial University was up 20 per cent over last year. In fact, ~ewas more than a 20 per cent 1324

March 24, 19.83 Tape No. 590 NM - 2 MS. V'E'RGE: increase at the Grenfell College Campus in Corner Brook.and 1 similiarly,our college and vocational school enrollments were up this academic year compared to last year. There does seem to be a correlation be.tween the high. unemployment rate and the participation rate in higher education, not only here in Newfoundland but e.lsewhere in Canada. And, Mr. Speaker, in the provinces like Nova Scotia,whi.ch earlier had to revert to the measures which_we are only now instituting 1 t~~e have been no noticeable affects on the participation rate.

In Nova Scotia, which last year reduced below where we are now going, enrollments swelled in the Fall of 1982. 1325

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 591 SD - 1 MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the trend, which is a trend of older people, mature students, attending university, colleges and vocational schools, which we have noticed here in our Province will be expected to accelerate next year especially when there will be so many opportunities with no people fresh out of high school going into those institutions. There has been the same momentum across North America of older people in greater and great~r numbers attending university and colleges.

And the 'Join the Class of '83 Programme' is well designed to reach out to a lot of these older students. And they will all be able to qualify for the full student aid benefits the $1,000 a semester in outright grants or $1 ,250 if they are married. And also, those people will qualify for federal government allowances through the Canada Employment and Immigration Commission. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. TULK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell ·) : member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Supplementary, the han. Mr.

Speaker, the minister likes to, in this particular instance, make comparsion with the stud.ent aid programme in other parts of Canada. But, Mr. Speaker, in view of the low participation rate in this Province with respect to post-secondary institution,s: having the iowest participation rate in all of Canada, in view of the cost of living, Mr. Speaker, the high cost of living, in view of the record levels · of unemployment in this Province, does the minister not believe that these are sufficient reasons to increase our student aid programme not to decrease it? Is this not reason enough, Mr.

Speaker, to make our student aid progra1ll!l)e more attractive rather than less attractive? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Education. 1326

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 591 SD - 2 MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the very economic problems to which the member opposite refers -the fact that we do have severe economic troubles, the fact that our private sector is experiencing difficulty, the fact that we have had such rough and unfair treatment from the federal government are the very reasons why we can no longer afford to keep the most generous student aid plan in all of Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MS. VERGE: What does the member opposite expect us to pay for all of this with? - buttons. I mean, we do have to generate the money somehow.

It has to either come from the federal government or come from our provincial taxpayers. And, Mr. Speaker, the federal government is cutting back its contribution to post­ secondary educat~on. The federal government has said through their minister, through Mr. Lalonde and others, that it is time to cut back federal government contributions to higher educations. They are restricting us to a 6 per cent increase in established programma financing when the cost of maintaining our programmes is way more than that. How are we ·expected to come up with the difference, Mr. Speaker? SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. NEARY: MR.

SPEAKER (.Russell): Leader of the Opposition. Hear, hear. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the ~on. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we do. no.t understa~d,and the students and the people of this Province do not understand .why, when the government finds itself in periods of restraint, welfare recipents, sick people and students are asked to make the sacrifice, Mr ·. Speaker. This does not make any sense. 1327

March 24, 1983 Tape 592 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: These are the people the administration thinks cannot defend themselves, that they are vunerable and cannot defend themselve·s. Now the minister knows full well that for the first time in Newfoundland's history we will have no high school students to keep up the enrollment at the post-secondary institutions this year. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, the minister announced an advertising programme here last week or the week before last,'Join the Class of '83 ,' she said. MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Council, on a point of order.

Order, please! Order, please! The han. President of the MR. MARSHALL: The han. gentleman, in coming to the rescue of the hon. gentleman for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush)• in asking a supplementary question is making a speech, Mr. Speaker.. This is the Question Period, the time for questions not for speeches. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition did rise on a supplementary question. a:nd I a:m sure he can refer to Beauchesne, ~-1hich says, "Supplementary questions should not need a

preamble." · MR. NEA.RY: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the minister how the minister expects people from the general population to Join the Class Of '83, the big publicity campaign that the provincial government is now carrying on to try to encourage enrollment at the post-secondary institutions to ta~e up the slack because there will be no graduates from high schools this year going into the University and into the Colle~e of Trades and so fortlli how can she justify that publicly programme on the one hand and then cut student allowances on the other hand to discourage students coming from the general population to get a post-secondary education in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Education. 1328

March 24, 1983 Tape 592 PK - 2 MS. VERGE : Mr. Speaker, I have to repeat that the provincial government student allowances, student grants,for the most needy students have not been reduced, have not been affect ed in any way . The most needy students ,if they are single 1for one semester of study will have to borrow $900 and then they will qualify £or the full provincial government grant of $1,000 for ·<::otal aid of $1 ,900. Before it was exactly the same except that they did it in different stages, it was loa .n, $575; grant $1,000, and then another loan of $325 .

But the bottom line is no different for the most needy students . And remember, Mr . Speaker , that mature people can often qualify for CEIC, commonly callec Manpower Allowances to enable them to take training programme in vocational schools and colleges. There will be lots of good opoortunities 1329

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 593 NM- 1 MS. VERGE: in our Province's vocational schools, colleges and Memorial Univeristy for people who have been out of ~chool for a while or for people who previously applied for a few of the high demand programmes for which they were not accepted because there were too many applicants. So I repeat my call to older people, to people who have been out of school for a few years, to mature people, to enroll in a post-secondary programme in September and to Join the Class of '83. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : a supplementary. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The han.

Leader of the Opposition Those.who Join the class of '83 will put themselves in debt $1,800 in their first year, Mr. Speaker, and that is e~actly the point that we are making. There is no encouragement to increase the enrollment at the post-secondary institutions. As a matter of fact 1 the programme that has been announced by the minister in the Budget contradicts what she has been trying to do in her Class of '83. Mr.

Speaker, now the minister also mentioned during the Budget Speech, or following the Budget Speech, about students finding employment, that they would now have to contribute more of their income during the Summer holidays when they are working towards their education. Now the minister knows fulls well making that kind of a statement, Mr. Speaker, that we have record un~ employment in Newfoundland amongst students. 50 per cent of the unemployed in this Province are young people between 1330

March 24, 1983 MR. NEARY: five. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (Rus ·sell} : on a point of order. MR. SIMMS: MR. MARSHA'LL: Tape No. 593 NM ~ 2 the ages of sixteen and twenty- Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Order, .please~ Order, please~ The han. President of the Council >Ask questions. He keeps on going, Mr. Speaker, on and on. I mean,he is making a 'speech again. Your Honour has called the han. member to order once; this is the second time. Perhaps Your Honour should name the han. gentleman. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Again I must repeat that in supplementary question there really should not be a need for a

preamble, there is only about five minutes left in the Question Period. Maybe other han. members might like to ask some questions. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister where she expects the students to find employment during the vacation period when last year we had 1 I believe,it was over 20 per cent unemployment amongst students across Canada 1and it was much higher in this Province. Would the han. minister care to tell the House where the students are going to find employment this Summer and Fall? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr.

Speaker, the change in the eligibility criteria for student aid to which the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) refers actually works to the benefit of studepts who are unfortunate enough not to be able to get a jop in the Summer, 1331

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 594 MJ - 1 MS. L. VERGE: in not discriminating against the~. The change says that students who are in the opposite situation, who are lucky enough to get a job 1now have to contribute 45 per cent of their actual earnings or 45 per cent of the minimum wage,whichever is greater. Before any student fortunate enough to have a job before entering post-secondary study,simply had to report and contribute on the application for Student Aid 45 per cent of the minimu~ wage. Surely, nobody can complain about that, Mr. Speaker, It just makes common sense.

Now, for students who cannot find employment,thentof course,they report no such contribution and,more likely ,than not 1 they will qualify for the maximum benefits. They will be in that most needy category who will not be hurt, will not be affected, wi .ll not receive any less provincial government grants after the changes. MR. T. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Terra Nova, a supplementary . .MR. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, would the minister not agree that increasing the loan ceiling from $575 per sem:ester to $900 that this measure pushes a student further in debt before qualifing for a provincial grant? Does that not push a student further in the hole? And if it does 1how can we classify this as an incentive to go to a post- secondary institution? Mr. Speaker. MS. VERGE: MR. SPEAKER: MS. VERGE: It is a strange incentive to me, Mr. Speaker, The hon. the Minister of Education. The change in the loan/grant split brings our Province's plan in line with the majority of provinces of Canada.

Now, in Nova Scotia, in P.E.I., in New Brunswipk, in Manitoba and Alberta students have to borrow 1332

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 594 MJ - 2 MS . L . VERGE : $900 a semester before they qualify for any provincial free money. Now, Mr. Speaker, as I have said several times before,the most needy students, the ones who all along were getting the maximum in grants and borrowing the maximum,are not affected. Before 1 a single student in that category borrowed $575,got the $1,000 1 and then borrowed another $325 for total aid in a semester of $1,900 and $1,000 was a grant.

After the change 1 the same student will have to borrow the $900 off the top and then go on to collect the $1,000 grant for the same total $1,900 aid and $1,000 grant. So, no change for the most needy, no change for the one-third of our students who are in that category .

The change will come about for students who are in a less needy position who 1granted, w~ll have to borrow more before they qualify for any free provincial money,for any provincial allowance 1 the same as their fellow students in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, Manitoba and Alberta, provinces which are richer than ours and which can better afford to have student assistance than we can. It is regretable, Mr. Speaker, that we have had to revert to this position 1but the pressure of our economic problems has really left us no realistic alternative~ 1333

March 24, 1983 Tape No . 595 JV- 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russelll.: This will be the final question for the Question Period, The han. member for Terra Nova . MR . LUSH: Mr . Speaker, I still have not got the ans wer, I am just asking simply, does this measure now,- does this step,by increasing the loan ceiling, does this cause a student to have to go more in debt than under the previous arrangement? ooes this cause a student to have to borrow more money than in the first instance, that $575~ Because a loan ceiling at $575 1 Mr. Speake~ seems lower to me that having to borrow $900. MR. SPEAKER: The han.

Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the answer is ':No' for the most needy students,who, all along, were borrowing the maximum and getting the maximum in grants. ''No! the lllOst needy students will not have to borrow any more. The most needy students will borrow the same to get the maximum grant. The answer is 'Yes" for students with less need who formerly and after will not qualify for the maximum grant. They will have to borrow more before becoming entitled to any provincial grant allowance or free money . MR. SPEAKER: The time for the question period has expired.

PRESENTING REPORTS BY S~ANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER:. The han. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act , I table · copies of six special warrant s, Finance, Development, Health , Municipal Affairs, and Justice. NOTICES OF MOTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I give Notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill -, "An Act to - -··-- - --- --- Amend The Election Act. ". 1334

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 595 JV - 2 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Minister of Development. MR. WINDSOR: I will give an answer to Question No. 13 placed on Order Paper No. 5 by the han. member from Bellevue (Mr. Callan). It also relates to an Oral Question from the han. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) just a couple of days ago in relation to the progress of Government's proposal to convert Lake Melville, Labrador 1 into a major port. I would like to read the rather brief answer.

The Department of Development remains confident that a year-round shipping corridor to a deep-water port in the Western end of Lake Melville is most technically and economically viable. This conclusion is based on a number of studies 1including icebreaker probes carried out in 1980, 1981 and l982 in which access by modern icebreakers was confirmed. In l982,a study of the incremental cost of maintaining such an operation indicated that ice conditions would not increase cost to a level which would create a barrier to the . deve .lopment of the area.

This is particularly true • T.he Canadian Coastguard continued to provide icebreaker service at no cost to commercial shipping.In the 1982-83 program, studies continue into the assessment of ice management techniques and technological advances. An oceanographic and ice-measurement programme is being carried out in the area of the proposed dock to determine operational difficulties. The revised cost estimate for heavy industrial work at Northwest Point now shows cost in excess of $100,00C primarily because of poor soil conditions in the area.

Ice conditions within the ~ke itself have been found to be particularly severe this year• A survey of these conditions using side-looking airborne radar and conventional survey techniques have identified ridges of up to twelve meters in some areas. 1335

Barch 24,1983 Tape No. 596 ah -1 MR. WINDSOR: a routing has been selected however which would avoid areas of most severe ridging . This is shown on the attached sketch. Ice thickness measurements along this route show ridgina of three to four meters which is considered navigable by an icebreaker. An icebreaker probe by the CCGS Sir John Frankl yn was scheduled for March but had to be cancelled because of the heavy pack ice conditions prevailing off ·the Newfoundland coast. We hope to carry out this probe in April if the icebreaker can be made available and if funding arrangements can be made.

As the technical and economic viability of year round access is becoming apparent, efforts in the future can be greatly reduced. Studies will continue into technological advances which could improve access and reduce costs. Major initiatives such as more icebreaker probes will not be carried out unless particularly severe conditio~s occur which could test Winter access,or in support of confirmed industrial development in the area. --. -- ---- The Department of Development is presently involved in feasibility studies into an aluminum smelter project and development of the forestr ~r ~ otential of the area .

Only when industry expresses a strong interest in development in this area would it be appropriate to consider further financial support. MR.NEARY: only wasting time . MR. WINDSOR: You are Mr. Speaker, obviously the Leader of the Opposition is not interested in Labrador, but I am sure these fine students from North West River certainly are. 1336

March 24,1983 Tape No. 596 ah-2 MR. WINDSOR: Only when industry expresses a strong interest in development in this area would it be appropriate to consider further financial support in the provision of the necessary facilities. Of the considerable infrastructure required to support such development we feel port facilities and icebreaker support would be likely candidates for federal assistanc~. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Social Services. MR.HICKEY: The hon. Minister of Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to a question asked by the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr.Warren) on the Order Paper , No. S,dated March 11th. In three parts, (

a) The number of boys and girls who left the training homes at Whitbourne and St. John's without permission since January 1,1982? The answer is 83. (

b) The number of boys and girls who left the training homes who were involved in vandalism or crime which resulted in further court action since January 1,1982? The answer is 41. (

c) The total cost to the department for vandalism, damage and crime committed by boys and girls who left th~ traininghomes since January 1,1982? The answer is $12,771.52~ I might say, Mr. Speaker, that 50 per cent of this amount can be attributed to two persons. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR.COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table answers to questions 14 and 25 which were asked by the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr.Hodder). 1337

March 24 ,1 98 3 Tape No. 596 ah -3 MR .SPEAKER (Ru ss ell): Public Works and Serv ices. MR . YOUNG: The hon . Minister of Mr. Speaker , I would like to table the answers to questions asked by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr .Neary). The number of pictures of the Premier distributed to public institutions around the Province . I did not distribute any pictures of the Premi er to publ ic institutions around the Province but I may say, Mr . Speaker, that the demand is very, very , great aRd I cannot do it . 1338

March 24, 19 '83 Tape No. 597 SD-1 MR. ROBERTS: Who paid for them? MR. YOUNG: That is not the question at all. Mr. Speaker, I am answering the question that was asked. I do not know who paid for them but the Department of Public Works did not. Mr. Speaker, ·the question on the Order Paper, No. 48, asked by the han. member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock): The nuffiber of helicopter trips taken by me during ~e fiscal year 1981 and 1982. During the two years in question, Mr. Speaker, I used the helicopter service to facilitate government business on one occasion only.

This was to transport myself and departmental officials from Goose Bay to Rigolet, Postville and Makkovik, and return, for the official opening 'Of the medical clinics in these communities. I was accompanied by an engineer and project manager from my department. Most of the meals, Mr. Speaker, were provided to me freely by the people we visited and I thanked them for their hospitality. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL): Presenting Petitions. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Mountains. MR. SIMMS: The hon. member for Torngat Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could have leave to table a document? MR. SPEAKER: to table a document?

SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: Can the hon. minister have leave Aye. The hon. Minister of Culture, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a statistical document relating to the use of the Newfoundland and Labrador Provincial Parks in 1982. 1339

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 597 SD - 2 PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, .I have a petition I wish to present today. It is on behalf of twenty-three post-secondary students who are here attending Memorial University. Those students are from Central and Coastal Labrador. Mr. Speaker, I will read the prayer of the petition. The prayer of the petition is: 'We the following post-secondary students from Coastal and Central Labrador disagree with the decision of the provincial government to reduce the health care services for Labrado .r.

We feel the closing down of the North West River hospital without adequate planning for the upgrading of the Melville hospital in Happy Valley - Goose Bay is an irresponsible move.' Now , Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Minister of Health (Mr. House}, since he became the Minister of Health in this government, has one aim and that aim is to cause hardship and suffering to the sick people in this Province. MR. NEARY: Right on. MR. WARREN: Last year, Mr.

Speaker, he took the opportunity of closing down the Markland Cottage Hospital and this has caused an uproar on the Avalon Peninsula and it has caused much suffering . And to this present day there are people waiting to enter hospitals in St. John's, in different hospitals. It is because of the attitude of the Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, I want to read a telegram that came from the Mayor of Makk .ovik, The contents of the telegram are as follows: 1340

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 598 NM - 1 MR. WARREN: 'Our government's plan to close the hospital at North. West River will have a devastating effect in Northern Labrador. St. Anthony, nor Melville can give the North Coast the type of self-service that we have become accustomed to from North West River over the years, just another example of our government's attitude to ~ ards the people of Labrador and a reminder of our native rights! Now, Mr. Speaker, how far can we go? How far can the Minister of Health go?

How much more suffering is the minister going to pl~ce on the backs of the Labrador peopl~ and not only that,the Newfoundland people also, Mr. Speaker? Last year in the Melville Hospital there were 6, 842 patient days, and of these - ~r. Speaker, the minister said earlier there was no surgery done in North West River - there were 881 surgical days in the North West River Hospital. And, Mr. Speaker, also the hospital at North West River is presently averaging seven pediatrics a day, seven a day and the hospital at Melville can only, even with revision, even with modification, can only handle six.

What is going to happen to the daily care that the hospital in North West River is providing. Mr. Speaker, just to reiterate 1 the kind of attitude that the Minister of Health (Mr. Housel toward the Labrador people, here is what he said in an interview he had with CBC this morning: The minister sa ·id, number one, 'the Grenfell Health Board did not know that the hospital was going to be closed down . Furthermore, one of the reasons the Minister of Health is not going into North west River this weekend is because he has other commitments, fine and dandy, but he said there are no flights on Saturdays.

He said this on the radio this morning, there are no flights on 1341

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 598 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: Saturday, and he has to wa~t to get more answers for them. He has to wait to get more answers for the people before he goes into North West River. Now, Mr. Speaker, as far as I am concerned, the minister - this has happened now -·for the last four years, since the minister became the Minister of Health - minister should not only be thrown out of the Cabinet, he should be thrown out of this House, The way t~e minister is acting, he should be thrown out of this House.

And, Mr. ·speaker, the minister, in my estimation and in the estimation of the people in Coastal Labrador, and Central Labrador, the minister deliberately misled, deceived and fooled the people of North West River and Coastal Labrador. The minister has been dishonest with the people and he has acted in a most inhumane manner, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr, Speaker, as tal:' as I am concerned the minister has completely misled, he has completely deceived the people of Labrador, and he has been dishonest with the people of Labrador, M:t:'. Speaker, MR. NEARY: He has deliberately misled. the l{ouse. MR.

WARREN: He has deliberately misled. the people of Labrador, And, in fact, in his answer today, as far as I am concerned, he has deliberately - MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker , on a point of ard.e r, MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! The han , the President of the Council.. MR. SIMMS: He forgot to say it until his leader told him to say it. 1342

March 24, 1983 Ta pe No . 598 ~'1-1 - 3 MR. MARSHALL: The hon. gentleman is entitled to make his points but he has to 1nake them in a parliamentary manner, Mr . Speaker, and he Bas oeen skirting tfiat. You know, to talk aoout the hon . minister deliberately misleading and being dishonest, 1343

March 24, 1983 Tape 599 EC - 1 MR. MARSHALL: the tenor of his remarks is completely and ·absolutely out of order. As I said, the han. gentleman can make his point and he is entitled to make his point, but within the framework of the rules. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Mr. Speaker, on that point of order. The han. the member for Port au Port, on that point of order. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the

section in Beauchesne,

Section 320, Page 104 lists the words which can be used in the House and the word 'deceive' has been ruled unparliamentary. But, at the same time, Mr. Speaker, a little farther along, since 1968, the word 'deceive' has been ruled parliamentary. So Beauchesne is unclear as to whether the word 'deceive' would be -and by the way, Mr. Speaker, the member did not say that the minister deceived the House, he said he deceived the people of Labrador. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, 9h! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The Chair did not hear the han. the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr.

Warren) say that the hon. the Minister of Health (Mr. House) deliberately misled the members of this House or misled the House. The han. the member for Torngat Mountains has about one minute left. MR. WARREN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I only hope that the minister will get up in his place and defend the people in Labrador, the people of coastal Labrador and North West River and Goose Bay and try to act like a, Minister of Health should act, and think about the sick and suffering people in this Province, try to act like a human being. 1344

"· March.. 24, 1983 Tap e 599 EC - 2 MR . GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER '(RU:ss·ell) : The hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. SO$' HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. GOUDlE: If I may speak for just a couple of minutes in relation to the petition just presented by the hon. gentleman on behalf of, I think he said, twenty-three post-secQndary students, who obviously have some very strong concerns about action which is being taken by this g.overnment in relation to tbe hosp~tal at North West River. I fully support the . concerns that they have.

As a matter of fact, I did that by attending a meeting l.ast Saturday afternoon, an impromptu meeting, I might add; in North West River, at which time I met with about 150 or so of the residents plus the Health Care Committee after that particular meeting. And I will be travelling to Labrador tomorrow 1345

March 24, 1983 Tape 600 PK ~ 1 MR. GOUDIE: to attend the meeting set up for two o'clock Saturday afternoon in North West River. At that time I will be making information available to the meeting, the public meeting based on a great series of questions which were directed at government, through me,last weekend in North West River, and I suspect that not all of the answers that I have are going to be satisfactory. I think they could be construed as being dissatisfactory to a great number of people.

The only thing that I candiffer with,or the point that the hon. gentleman made, and this is ' just based on my understanding of comments made by my colleaguet the Minister of Health (Mr. House), relates to the reason why he is not going to North West River to attend that meeting on Saturday.

It is not because there is no flight on Saturday, but it was rather short notice and I understand he has some commitments, but there was a counter proposal made by the minister to the Health Care Committee~ specifically Katherine Bakie Pottle who is heading up that Committee, and that is that around the middle of April it would be a much more appropriate time for him to meet with the public of North West River, and it is quite possible,depending on what the conclusions are drawn at the meeting on Saturday, it is quite possible there will be a second meeting at that time.

But I think we all share the concerns of these twenty-three students and all of the people of North West River and Coastal Labrador in relation to that particular facility. And I should point out, Mr. Speaker, that I think there is an incorrect terminology being used in that the hospital is not closing, the hospital is being phased down, or the decis~on has been made to phase it down to a clinic status not c·lose it. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. 1346

March 24, 1983 Tape 600 PK - 2 MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if I may say a few words with respect to the petition, let me first of all deal with a point or two made by my friend for Naskaupi district (Mr. Goudie). I think we all appreciate the ·courage which he is showing in dea~ing with this matter. I think we all know how distasteful it must be for him to be part of an administration which has acted for purely financial reasons, I suggest, in making changes in the health care field which are not merited-for any reason other than for financial, and I am not saying they are merited for financial reasons.

But, you know, we have a Cabinet that has sacrificed health care on the expediency of the almighty dollar, and that is the first time to my recollection,ever in the history of Newfoundland,other than the Dirty Thirties when they actually cut the education vote by 10 per cent, the first time that a government has ever closed hospitals simply to try to save a buck. ~d that is what they are doing , of course. MR. HOUSE: That is an unfair statement. MR. ROBERTS : I ~ sorry? DR. COLLINS: That is very unfair. 1347

March 24, 1983 Tape No, 601 MJ - 1 MR. E. ROBERTS: I will listen to the minister if he has something to say but not to the Yahoo. What did the minister say? MR. W. HOUSE: that kind of a statement. MR. ROBERTS: but it is not untrue. MR. HOUSE: back . MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. ROBERTS: It is unfair that you are making The minister may think it is unfair It is untrue, we are not cutting Order, please!- Order, please! Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health (Mr. House) has been conspicuous by his silence throughout this.

I have my own reasons for believing why he will not go to Labrador this weekend and I will leave it at that. But what I was speaking of was the courage of his colleague the Minister of whaterever it is,Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development, the gentleman from Naskaupi (Mr. Goudie), who,in my opinion,is being hung out on the line and left to dry by his colleagues in Cabinet. Now, what I do want to say is this, the trouble with the decision - oh, let me say as well that it is a little inexact to sa y the hospital is not being closed, it is being phased down into a clinic.

My understanding .from the Budget Speech is that the government propose to close all of the beds in the hospital, there may be an emergency bed or two left . What will be left is a doctor's office or two and what will be left is maybe an X-ray machine or maybe not, I have not even heard that, but it will Qe a clinic and not a hospital. It will cease to function in any way comparable to that which it has functioned since Dr.

Harry Paddon went t~ere about 1900 : North West River is not only one of the oldest settlements in this Province but the hospital at North West River is one of the oldest medical facilities in this Province . 1348

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 601 MJ - 2 AN HON. MEMBER: Seventy-one years. MR. ROBERI'S: My friend says seventy-ones years. I had thought that :the North West River Hospital was built before 1912. I stand to be corrected. ~1y understanding was that it was about the turn of the century that' Grenfell and Dr. Cluny Macpherson went to Ba, tti"e Harbour and Indian Harbour. In fact,my great uncle served with them for a while down there, my fathers uncle. And then Dr. Paddon came out from England and went into what was then and is now North West River and settled there and made his home there. MR.

BARRETT: The history ~s superb. MR. ROBERTS: Yes, the history is superb and so is the logic. Unfortunately,it is the government's reasoning that is bad I would say to my friend from St. John's West (Mr. Barrett). The problem is, Mr. Speaker, and the government are going to run into this as they close, because North West River is not the last to go. Buchans is going to go and Botwood is going to go and Placentia is going to go and I defy the Minister of Health (Mr. House) to challenge that statement. The problem, Mr. Speaker, is the dishonesty with which this administration approached the whole subject.

If they would come out and say that here is the situation. i.The Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) spoke in his Budget of a study to be made. Maybe there will be such a study and yet here we have a case of the door being locked after the horse is gone out of it. Mr. Speaker, the problem is the dishonesty with which this administation are approaching the questions of health care in this Prov~nce. The only reason that North West River is being closed as a hospital is financial. If the government havesome other reason they have not given it.

If there is some other :t"eason it has not been made public. r draw the conclusion there is no other 1349

March 24,1983 'llape No. 602 MR. ROBERTS: reason. That is why it was announced in a Budget Speech. This was not a health care measure,this was ah-1 a budgetary measure And I will say again because my time is nearly up, Mr. Speaker--! will have time again in the debate later today or in the morning.And we are going to be on Interim Supply until the seventy­ five hours run out. You know the government are not going to see Interim Supply short of the seventy-five hours,or whatever is left after the guillotine is down 1 runs out. So we will have lots of time to talk about it.

The problem with this whole approach is that it is purely a financial thing,and the reason why North West River is being closed is to try to save the almighty buck. And the principles of health care have now been subverted to the financial dictates, the financial expediency caused by the mismanagement of this government and those who have gone before , if you wish, on both sides, on both sides if you want to say that.

What I will say, Mr.Speaker, is that the governmept and the Minister of Health (Mr.House) in approaching this have looked only at financial considerations-And I say in closing to my friend from Naskaupi (Mr. Goudie) that I feel right from the heart, I feel a deep sorrow for him because he is being hung out to dry. He is going to get no support from his colleagues. He is going to have to answer for this to his constituents ·. He will do his best and he is going to get no support .

He deserves it because what he is doing is expressing a government decision in which he had a part .for which he is fully responsible, but not one which he himself took. I support the petition,Sir. 1350

March 24,1983 Tape No. 602 ah-2 ORDERS OF THE DAY On motion, that the House resolve itself into Committee of Supply Mr. Speaker left the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY MR.CHAIRMAN (Aylward): Order, please! The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Chairman, it looks to me now from the strategy being used by the Government House Leader - MR. ANDREWS: MR. ROBERTS ·: of order. MR CHAIRMAN: MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible) Mr. yhairman, to a point Order, please! Could the gentleman from Burgee-Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Andrews) control his intemperate remarks as best he can~ I do not mind him being rude and vulgar. MR.

ANDREWS : you. MR. ROBERTS: I was not talking to I know he was not talking to me, Mr. Chairman, but when we can hear him on this side - MR. ANDREWS : (Inaudible) MR. ROBERTS: There he goes again,Sir. MR.CHAIRMAN: Order, please! MR. ROBERTS: When we can hear him on this side of the House being vulgar and intemperate-surely, Sir, that ·is out of order and he should be called to order. MR. BAIRD: The han. member was over there bugging him. 1351

March 24,1983 MR.CHAIRMAN (Aylward): Tape No. 602 ah-3 Order, please! To that point of order. The Chair did not hear any remark but I will take it 1352

March 24, 1983 Tape 603 EC - 1 MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : under consideration and rule on it later. The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: It looks to us on this side of the House, Mr. Chairman, as if the government now, with the strategy that we have seen in the House in the last several days, intend to go for a short session of the House. MR. ROBERTS: MR. NEARY: They have nothing to talk about. That is right. They have really nothing on the agenda worthwhile. We have the Throne Speech, the Budget Speech and the Interim Supply Bill all before the House at the same time and the strategy seems to be, Mr.

Chairman, that once the Interim Supply Bill is finished I ~we go straight into the Budget Speech and as soon as the Budget Speech ends then you can kiss this part of this session of the House good-bye. I think that is shameful, Mr. Chairman. It is beneath contempt. Here we are, almost two weeks now. in session,and there has not been a word from the government benches, from the ministers, not a word about plans for dealing with record unemployment in this Province, especially record unemployment among students, .young people between the ages of sixteen and twenty-five, not a word, Mr.

Chairman, not a peep about the crisis in the fishery, not a word about the ever- increasing cost of electricity rates in this Province, not a word about how they propose to deal with the communities on the misery list, Fermeuse, Burin, St.'Lawrence, Gaultois, Grand Bank, Rarnea, Harbour Breton, Piccadilly, Happy Valley - Goose Bay, North West River, Labrador West, Wabush, Bell Island and all the other communities on the misery list; not a word, not a peep out of the government on how they intend to cope with the problems in these 1353

March 24, 1983 Tape 603 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: regions of the Province and in these communities. The Premier is up in Ottawa today, 1354

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 604 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: himself and the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), at the last minute, corning in at the last minute. He has had a whole year now to lay out plans for the fishery but he is up in Ottawa now at the last minute. Just as the Cabinet Committee of the federal government are on the verge of making a decision on restructuri-ng, the Premier and the Minister of Fisheries from this Province rush in with an ill-conceived, very poorly put together plan at the last minute, the eleventh hour, that now, Mr. Chairman, will only muddy up the water.

Muddy up the water, that is all it will do. we told the government last Fall that one of the - as a matter of fact,we said it in our presentation to the Kirby Task Force, that if the fishery is going to survive and prosper in this Province the changes that would have to be made would have to be drastic and dramatic, and one of the changes we recommended was separating the trawler fleet from the processinq sector. MR. DINN: Well, obviously if that happens you will agree with that. MR. NEARY: That is our philosophy. That is our proposal. We made that proposal. I do not think, Mr.

Chairman, at this point in time that the federal government will go along with it. Separate the trawler fleet - separate the harvesting from the processing sector. In other words, Mr. Chairman, that is a part of our ideology over here. We put that proposition forward a year ago, just the . same as we suggested that the terms of reference of . the Canadian Saltfish Corporation MR. DINN: That sounds like a sensible idea, why would they not go along with it? 1355

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 604 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Because, Mr. Chairman, when the provincial government had the opportunity to propose that, when it was on the table, they would not go along with it. MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: are rushinq in with a plan MR. TOBIN' MR. CIU\IRMAN (Aylward) : MR. NEARY: Squirm. Squirm. Now.,at the last minute , they Squirm, snail. Order, please! At the eleventh hour the Province rushes in with a plan~ .. and we do not know what is in that plan. But they have had an opportunity for the last year to put any ideas or suggestions or recommendation they had, to lay them on the table. Mr .

Chairman, we on this side of - the House have beenadvocating separating the harvesting from the processing sector for the past year, and our appeal has fallen on deaf ears. And t9 do it now at this particular point in time,all it will do is muddy up the water. It will have to be done somewhere down the line. It will have to be done and it will be done . But to rush in now, just on the eve of making a decision on restructuring , will only delay the reopening - MR. TOBIN: You can squirm all you like. MR.

NEARY: - will only delay the reopening of . the plant in Burin, and the plant in Ramea, and the plant in Gaultois, because, Mr. Chairman, I am convinced - not only am I convinced but it is part of our ideology, our philosophy , that all these plants should reopen. MR. DINN: What other things - MR. NEARY: Pardon? MR. DINN: I did not read what you sent in to the Kirby Task Force. 1356

March 24, 1983 Tape 605 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Well, I will not tell the han. gentleman, I will let my han. colleague deal with it. But, Mr. Chairman, somewhere down the line - now to nationalize the harvesting sector of the fishing industry is a major and dramatic reform in the fishing industry? there is no question about it, but it is something that you cannot do overnight. We cannot delay any longer the reopening of these plants.

Let us get the plants reopened and then let us talk about nationalizing the harvesting sector~ Get the plants open first, get the restructuring done, and then deal with the harvesting, Mr . Chairman, of the stock. MR . TOBIN: You seem to be embarrassed, what is the problem? MR. NEARY: Embarrassed? We are trying to push our point. This is a plank in our platform and we are trying to push it. We are trying to convince hon. gentlemen to nationalize, to go along with US• MR. ANDREWS: Are you saying Kirby will not · go along with you? MR. · NEARY: Pardon? MR. DINN: Kirby will not go along with you. MR. NEARY: No.

What we are saying is the provincial government will not go along with us. When they had an opportunity to have input into the Kirby Task Force 1 and when they were invited to attend the CaQinet meetings in Ottawa they did not put forward this suggestion. Now they may do it at the last minute. They may do it at the last minute, I do not know. But the last minute is too late. There were three options on the table. The three options were - the second option was to nationalize the industry, to nationalize it 1 and-the provincial government would not go along with that. 1357

March 24, 1983 Tape 605 PK - 2 MR. NEARY : The Premier went up to Ottawa and sa id, he would have nothing to do with nationalizatiOn. Nothing to do with it. MR. DINN: Do you agree with that? MR. NEARY : I do not agree with the Premier, no. I think the fleet has to be nationalized. MR. BARRETT: MR. NEARY: You are a socialist anyway. Well,in.that regard I am. MR. BARRETT: You are in every regard. MR. NEARY: Oh,listen! Oh, listen to holier than thou over there! At least I have a social conscience .. I have a social conscience,that is more I can say- MR. TOBIN: Is that a sin? ' MR.

NEARY : Is it a· sin to have a social conscience? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, somewhere down the line we will have to nationalize the harvesting sector of the fishing industry. Now it is not a new idea. Two previous governments almost nationalized the trawler fleet. Mr. Chairman, two previous administrations, the Smallwood administration - SO ME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward} : Order , please! MR. NEARY : - and the Moores administration almost nationalized the harvesting sector of the fishing industr y. MR. BARRETT: They would nationalize anything . MR.

NEARY: They almost did it, Mr. Chairrnan,and I have no doubt that somewhere down the line it is going to have to happen. The sooner the better. MR. DINN: I. ·only have twa poi ,p.ts:~ 1358

l'1arch 24, 1983 Tape 605 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: I beg your pardon? MR . DINN: I only have two points, nationalize (in audible) the harvesting part of it. MR . NEARY : And the marketing . Do not forget the marketing . To expand the Terms of Reference of the canadian Saltfish Corporation to handle marketing of all the produce of the sea, that is a-part of our policy, our platform. ~~ HON . MEMBER: Where did you get that? MR. NEARY : AN HON • MEMBER: MR . NEARY: Where did we get it? Yes. Mr. Chairman, we got it from - the real success story since Confederation,in this Province, is the Canadian Saltfish Co;poration. 1359

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 606 MJ - 1 MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward): Order, please! elapsed. MR. E. HISCOCK: MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. HISCOCK. The han. the member 's time has Mr~ Chairman. The hon. the member for Eagle River. I would like to say a few words, Mr. Chairman, with regard to the Budget that was brought down and what many people have said in this House. Within the next three or four months we will see the electing of a new leader of the national Conservative Party and his PC caucus and government here are going to support the favourite son. I would like to go on record as saying that I wish Mr.

Crosbie the best, and hopefull y he will ·make a good showing. Who knows, he may become the next Prime Minister . But I would like to ask, in what direction is the Conservative Party here in Newfoundland going? We know the Premier and the caucus are going to be supporting Mr . Crosbie, we know the Par~iamentary Assistant to the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development is supporting Mr. Mulroney, and the former Premier is going to be supporting Mr. Mulroney , I would assume, while the member for St •. John '.s East (Mr. McGrath) is on record as supporting Mr.

Clark. so 'we have the Conservative Party in Newfoundland going in three different directions. MR. BAIRD: MR. HISCOCK: Are you supporting Mr. Trudeau? Yes, I am and always will, With regard to that l was just wonder ing the other day as I was driving out, when Mr. Crosbie announced his candidacy, if he does become the next Leader of the PC Party and the Prime Minister of Canada will that mean that he will move the capit~l of Canada from Ottawa to st. John's? I wonder if it means that . ~ wonder, also, will he move the shoemaking industry from Quebec 1360

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 606 MJ - 2 MR. E. HISCOCK: and bring it down to Newto~~dland and get into producing mukluks? These are so~e th~ngp ~ was wondering. Also, I would love to know, if he ever ~s the Prime Minister of Canada, will he a.gree with wha.t the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is saying, that the Northern Cod should not go to Nova Scotia, not go to New · Brunswick, not go to Quebec or P.E.I. but must stay in Newfoundland?

I would like for the day to come when we would see a Conservative Prime Minister of Canada fro~ Newfoundland, and if it should happen I am sure the Liberals here on' this side would welcome it mo:re than ever, more so than the Conservatives, because then both governments, in Newfoundland and in Ottawa, would live up to their commitments and our people in St.

John's and other area.s of our Province would find out that there is such a thing as national interest and provincial interest. aut just by having a Newfoundlander as hea.d of the PC Party, and maybe Prime Minister, does not necessarily ~ea.n that he is going to give Newfoundland everything tha.t we wa.nt, Mr. Peckford thinks we would get the offshore, Mr. Morgan th;i.nks we would get the Northern Cod and some other people think we. should · get tl;l.e shoemaking i.ndustry and have our mukluks produced here ·in st. John's. In conclusion~ will just say I wanted to make one comment, I wish Mr.

Crosbi .e well but it is going to put ' the Conservative ca.ucus a.nd the Conservative Party here in Newfoundland in a. difficult situation, whether they will support Mr. Mulroney, or whethe!!; they will support Mr. Crosbie, or support Mr. Cla;t;k, So~e of .them may even decide to support other candidates, But as a favourite son I suppose we 1361

March 24, 1983 Tape 607 SD - 1 MR. HISCOCK: have to congratulate him, that he feels he has the ego to go after the top job" And for my

part I wish him well and I look forward to doing battle with him some day, maybe, in his capacity as Leader of the Opposition in Ottawa, or, who knows, maybe as our Prime Minister. But I would like to go back to the budget with ragard to the student aid. The student aid programme is something that is very, very dear to me because if it was not for student aid many members on both sides would not be into post-secondary education, would not be in the different professions we are in. Financial aid was given to us by a Liberal government, under Mr. Smallwood.

If I may go back, and I have said this in the House before, the first Minister of Education in this Province, in 1909, was in a Liberal administration under Sir Robert Bond. And that Minister of Education was Dr. Arthur Barnes who is an ancestor of mine, a great grand uncle. The question was put to him, and, as a matter of fact, it is on record, whether they would have free education in St. John's. Well, that was the decision the Cabinet made. He fought in Cabinet and ended up saying, 'No, we will not have free edUcation in St.

John's, we will extend it to the coves an~ the inlets and the bays and other areas·of the Province.' Dr. Arthur Barnes- and I am sure the member for Harbour Grace (Mr. Young) knows of him, in the sense that he is buried in Bay Roberts - Mr. Chairman, made that choice realizing that our greatest resource was and is and always will be our people. We are going to be and always will be unless things change dramatic~lly, being an Island, an exporter of people. In the best of times and in the worst of times we will 1362

March 24, 1983 Tape No . 607 so - 2 MR. HISCOCK: be an exporter of people because we \vill have people who will want to get away and see what else is in the world . And I, for one, Mr . Chairman, feel that if we educate our people and they want to go to Africa, or the United States, or South America, or Europe, 136 3

March 24, 1983 Tape 608 EC - 1 MR. HISCOCK: or other parts of Canada then more power to them, Mr. Chairman. And if we educate them and they take their experience to other countries and then they decide to come back, I would hope, Mr. Chairman, that we would welcome them with open arms and not take the mental attitude taken by many of our people, 'Oh, you have been away now, you think you know itall and you have come back telling us how to run the place' - as the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) said to a person who came to this Province with the idea of helping to build up this Province. What did he say to him?

He called him a 'mainlander' with only two years of residence in this Province. And what did the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) call a professor from the university? Mr. Chairman, if this is how we are going to treat people who are coming to our Province - and I would assume that the Memorial University Board of Regents hiring practice is second to none and they are not going to have anybody come into this Province and to this great university of ours unless he is of top international calibre, and I would say international, not provincial. We have seen now, Mr.

Chairman, in the process of student aid, the idea that education is a right - we have the highest illiteracy rate in Canc:>da, definitely in the Atlantic Provinces, we have the lowest per capita student enrolment in post- secondary ~ducation, those who are going on to post - secondary education in Canada, and yet, here we are now claiming - and I am a little amazed at it and I am sure the Leader .o·f the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is also, that here is the Premier, who champions the cause of our young people and the development of Hibernia so that Newfoundlanders I can make , maximum use of it, ·the unemployment.

None of our 1364

March 24, 1983 Tape 608 EC - 2 MR. HISCOCK: industries are around anymore, now he is putting the boots to our students so that they also will not be around, and we will have to bring in people from other parts and then we will have the " 1365

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 609 NM- 1 MR. KISCOCK: Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) saying the same thing, 'They are from outside,' instead of training our people.

And if Hibernia, Mr.Chairman, is supposed to come the way it is supposed to come, then I,for one 1 feel that we should not build bhe Arts and Culture Cen ·tre in Labrador West, we should not Build the Confederation Building, we should not get on talking about the Shoe Cove station, we should not get on talking about expansion of the various ministers' departments, museums, etc., we should be taking that money, in 'the next three or four years, and putting it into post- secondary education and saying to our students, 'We got four or five years to prepare for Rioernia and we are going to make sure that everyone of uur students who want to avail of this will.

And I would go as far as to say, Mr. Ch~irman the federal government,under its reallocation of post-secondary education 1are bringing in changes which will see the weekly ailowance increase from $56.25 to $100.00, that they are eligible for. Interest free loans will be extended from a six month period to an eighteen month period because they realize in these hard economic times students are not finding jobs, and why should they Be burdened with paying back loans after six months when they cannot get jobs. So they have extended that to an eighteen month period.

And also part-time students, those students who find that they can get a part-time job, who do not want to get into high loans, now find that they can qualify. So these are some of the things that the federal government are bringing in. And what is the provincial government bringing in? Independent students I living at home will no longer be able to claim room and board. They will not longer be able to claim room and board. Not only 1366

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 609 NM- 2 MR. HISCOCK: . that but they will have to borrow $900 each semester. Also the students' contribution> calculations will be changed from 45 per cent of the minimum wage earnings to 45 per cent of the actual earnings, or 45 per cent of the minimum wage,whichever is greater. Not whatever is left, whichever is greater, Mr. Chairman. So now we find Newfoundland with the lowest standard of living and the highest cost of living. MR. DINN: The lowest standard of living? MR. HISCOCK: The 1owest standard of livingr yes. I am quoting here from the Muse.

"Newfoundland has the lowest standard of living, the highest cost of living and the highest rate of unemployment, and also the lowest rate of students going on to post-secondary education." But here is the Premier, who is the champion of our younger people in this Province,-and I would go as far as to say that 98.9 per cent of those of voting age in the last election probably rooted for the Premier, and for this government,because they wanted to see the resource of Hibernia controlle~ - ~nd developed for the maximum benefit of Newfoundlanders, 'and now they find themselves in a situation Mr.

Chairman, where education is a little bit more expensive ' and many of them have to think twice. I am sure there is not a member in this House of Assembly who ,each September/has 1367

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 610 SD - 1 MR. HISCOCK: several students coming to him or her saying, 'We do not have enough, we have to re-apply to student aid for an appeal because we cannot live on this'. And we also have other people, Mr. Chairman, in our Province who cannot go to university because,number one, they are married 1 they have a wife and children and they cannot - . ··-· get by getting into debt. And as bad as their position has been in the past couple of years 1 now it is going to be even more so. I kept asking the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr.

Dinn), at the Committee meetings, if the provincial government was going to bring in any special programme· MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : elapsed. West. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. BARRETT: for students over and above - Order, please! The hon. member's time has The hon. member for St. John's Hear, hear. Mr. Chairman, I thought I would have a couple of words this afternoon for a few minutes on this budget that has been presented by the hon . Minister of Finance (pr. Collins} and in particular probably dwell for a couple of minutes on the allocation for the Department of Education. Mr.

Chairman, this government has recog~ized, since this administration has taken office, its responsibility to the education of the students of this Province. I think this is reflected in the amount of money that · is allocated for this particular department. The Department of Education accounts for just about 25 per cent of all of the funding ·that is provided to all sectors of the Province by this· 1368

March 24, 1983 Tape No . 610 so - 2 MR. BARRETT: provincial government. That is a pretty significant bite of the total available dollars - $525 million allocated for the providing of all aspects of education in this Province. Mr. Chairman, one of the major components of this amount of 1369

March 24,1983 Tape No . 611 ah-lo HR. BARRETT: money is the $268 million allocation for teaching services. As you are aware,government has been negotiating now for some months with the executive and the bargaining arm of the NTA. One would think, from hearing some of the rhetoric coming from that branch of the Teachers' Association,that government are totally insensitive to the teachers of this Province. Mr. Chairman, in 1982-83 the amount paid to teachers was some $242 million.

The present Budget addresses itself to increasing this amount to $268 million. ' Now that is a fairly significant increase just on the salary issues alone in a time of restraint, I think, when all levels of the public sector have recognized the need of restraint in salaries, wages and other employee benefits.

I think one of the things that was evidenced by this very fact was the announcement by the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) today of the tentative agreement with a segment of the teaching profession that normally are not the first people to sign an agreement on wage issues ,but normally would follow what is done by the NTA on behalf of the larger body of the teaching profession .

It is obvious that these people feel that the initiatives that are made by the NTA and the bargaining unit are totally unrealistic, and it would appear that they have certainly changed direction and have taken a very realistic and creditable stand in their settlement. 1370

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 612 MJ- 1 MR. H. BARRETT: It might be interesting to reflect on some of the numbers 1 and these are some of the things which people probably tend to forget and maybe chose to forget and not pay any attention to. The average salary for a teacher in this Province amounts-to $30,000 a year. For that $30,000 a year the average teacher works an avera .ge work day of six to seven hours per day for a five day week.

But not only that, Mr, Chairman, the number of day::; a year worked are 185 days per year at an average hourly rate of twenty- seven dollars an hour, Now, in the best of times or in the worst of times that is a pretty good number, for 185 working days a year an average wage of twenty-seven dollars an hour. $. T, LUSH: What professional people get paid less? MR. BARRETT: What professional people? Nurses. Nurses get paid significantly less if wanted to ask, I am glad you raised the question. The nurses get an average wage of fifteen dollars an hour as c~ed to twenty-seven dollars an hour. MR.

LUSH: Compare the training. MR. BA .RRETT: Compare the training. ~es~ As as a matter of fact,the nurses are more extensive in a great number of cases. However, the numbers themselves, I think,suggest that in this time of restril.int the teachers are very well looked after by this administration. ' . MR. LUSH: Those people will love you, MR. BARRETT: Well, I am not particularly looking for the love of anybody let alone a teacher, r have my hands full now ·. I have my wife's permission to say that. There is no question that everybody needs to be cognizant of the cost of living, trying to better 1371

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 612 MJ - 2 MR . H • BARRETT: their station in life but I think there has to be some realism attached to these goals and I think that the treatment of the teachers in this Province, by this government, has been very creditable. I think it is necessary to highlight the fact that the average teacher is not unduly upset withwhat has been offerred by government. I speak with quite a number of teachers t-7ho live in my district. 1372

March 24, l983 Tape No. 6l3 JV- l MR. BARRETT: The ave.rage teacher is not at all upset.

The average teacher is quite prepared to recognize the commitment and the dedication that is necessary on their part and to receive. an amount which. is probably in other times, other financial times, .less than one would expect but given our circumstance .s today - I. am fully infor.med by the people who I speak with that they are quite prepared to accept this, that the problem nere. is the Executive of the NTAe The problem here is not the average. teacher, the problem is the executive and the negotiating team and that seems to be the whole problem, thi..s :me.ss that seems to be prevailing.

If they get t:h..e.i:r way, this NTA Executive are . not at all concerned, the least nit concerned, about what is going to happen to the students approaching examination time,when it is necessary that the school work is completed, that the ter.m is completed . to allow these students to write proper examinations,to properly address the curriculum for the year.

And, it is unfortunate that the majority of the teachers of this P·rovince are being asked by their executive to choose a course which is going to be totally disruptive to the school · year and totally· out of character with these people as professionals-And I think that if they think of themselves as professionals,as they are ., then r think they will be supportive of the government~s position 6n these wage .- ·) restraints measureso , I think everything else is a lot of bulldogging, there is a lot of trying to shade the issues, that the real problem here is the Executive of the NTA, ~ne Bargaining Unit; it is not the teachers of this Province who.,.

I am quite sure, will always be prepared to support this Government. 1373 .:

March 24, ~983 Tape No. 6~3 JV - 2 MR. SPEAKER(,Aylward l: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman who just spoke, I think probably cast more - asperions on the teachers and insulted the intelligence of the teachers,more than the Minister of Finance~r. Collinsl has been doing in the last several months. Somebody 1374

March 24, 1983 Tape 614 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: should get the Hansard, get the transcript of the hon. gentleman's speech and send it over to the NTA. If the hon. gentleman felt that the majority of teachers were being duped by their negotiating team or being codded by their negotiating team, why did the hon. gentleman spend the last ten minutes trying to defend the administration and its policy? Mr. Chairman, the han. gentleman's remarks were beneath contempt and nothing but an insult to the intelligence of the teachers.

I am not going to dwell on it any longer, I am going to come back to the idea, the sugges­ tion that I made earlier about splitting the harvesting from the processing sector of the fishing industry. Now, Mr. Chairman, we hear so much these days from the media that nothing new has been said in the House.

Well, here is something new now that is going on the table of this House,and let it be recorded that it was the Liberal Party of Newfoundland who said it first, that it is the Opposition who have been pressing the administration for the past year to go along with our suggestion that the harvesting sector of the fishing industry be separated from the processing sector. Let it be recorded that it has been said first .- 'MR. TULK: Forever and a day~ MR. NEARY: Forever 'and a day it has been said by the Liberal ·opposition ··in. 'tliis House.

Arid if the media think that it. ha-s e~en -~-f\ :i:d before in this House I maybe it has but I have not heard it. It is a part of our platform. _ Hr. Chairman, as far as I can understand, there were three options. -The first option that was being considered - and obviously the administration had input in the discussion - the first option was to merge - MR. TULK~ No, the Premier just went up and said, 'Let me know what you do. 1_375

Ma_rch 24, 1983 Tape 614 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Yes. Well, that is right, the Pxemie.r went to Ottawa and said, 'Look, let us know \'lhat you are going to do, but we are against nationalization. ' 'We are against nationalization,' he said, 'but tell us what you are going to do. 1 Well, here is what the provincial government was told: Ther.e are three options. The firs<t option is a merger of National Sea and Nickersons, a merger betwee.n National Sea and Nickersons and then that would be one company; and the second company would be a merger of all the Newfoundland companies. So, Mr.

Chairman, what you would end up with - MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: MR. TOBIN: Ottawa this afternoon? Do you agree with that? No, I do not agree with that. Die you have a phone call from MR. NEARY: No, I certainly did not have a phone call from Ottaw·a this afternoon. Why, Mr. Chairman . Am I saying something I should not be saying? ll.fR. ANDREWS: No. I am just curious. MR. NEARY: No. But this has become general knowledge in the last few days. ~~. TOBIN: Fishery Products, Lakes, and ~ho else? 1376

March 24, 1983 Tai?e 615 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: No, the first option was National Sea and Nickersons merge, National Sea and Nickersons. MR. ANDREWS: The second (inaudible). MR. NEARY: No. Part of the first option and all of the Newfoundland companies here in this Province merge : MR. ANDRE~JS : All of them. MR. NEARY: Herge! Merge! Okay? So you would have two companies, you would have a Nova Scotia company and you would have a Newfoundland company. My hon. friend knows. AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, I sure do. MR. NEARY: Right.

Now the first option as I understand it,has been dismissed forthright, that what you would end up with would be a powerful Nova Scotia company and a weak Newfoundland company. So that is gone off the table. Now the second option that was on the table was to separate, split the harvesting

section of the fishing indll;stry from the processing sector. But Ottawa co~ld not get the Provincial Government to go along with that, so that had to be taken off the table. AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, is that right? Is that right? MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not know what they are going to propose today, but today is too late. If they did it today it would be too late. MR. TOBIN: You can twist and squirm all you like my friend. MR ..

NEARY: And the third option that would keep Burin, Ramea, Gaultois and all these other places, would be a merger between Nickersons and all the Newfoundland companies, formed into one big Crown company. MR. MA."qSHALL: ~-That did your friend say on the weekend? 1377

March 24, 1983 Tape 61 5 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: No, between Nickerson's and the Newfoundland companies. AN HON. MEMBER: Are you going to table that? MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, these are just little thoughts t~at I just wrote down . And that the provincial and federal governments and possibly the union would take equity in this big Crown company .· Now, Mr. Chair,rnan, also, as far as the corporation that would harvest the fish, I see no reason why the provincial and federal governments and the union could not take equity in that company, the corporation that would harvest the fish. MR.

DINN: The third option is Nickerson, Fishery Products and Lakes, J .C. Penny, all .these companies merge. MR. NEARY: All in one pot . MR. DINN: · As processors. MR. NEARY: That is right. MR. DINN: ~nd set up a Crown Corporation. MR. NEARY: Well that would more or less be a Crown company if the provincial government would take equity into it, i~ would be - :· MR . DINN: (Inaudible) into it. MR . NEARY: That is right. It wou1d be more or less a Crown company. AN HON. MEMBER: Very interesting. MR. NEARY: It is. It is very interesting .

I am surprised the han. gentleman is so interested in what I am saying, Because the hon. gentleman is such a capitalist, such a private entrepreneur 1 I am amazed that the hon. gentleman is so interested in what I am saying. 1378

March 24, 1983 MR. DINN: MR . NEARY : MR. DINN : MR. NEARY: ---MR. DINN: Tape 615 PK - 3 I can listen to ideas, you know. These are idea s. The first two options are out? Option No . 1 is out. And No. 2 is out? MR. NEARY : No, no. I did not say No. 2. ~-?hat I said about No. 2 was that the provincial government up to today, up to this very day,the provincial government would not go along with any signs of nationalization . In other words,they were not prepared to go along with splitting the harvesting from the processing sector up until now. 1379

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 616 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: Now I do not know what is going to happen today in Ottawa. I have no idea. MR. DINN: What were the federal government willing to do on that? MR. NEARY: The federal govenment had it on the table. Rut the provincial government would not go along with them so they had to take it off the table for the time being. MR. TOBIN: That is interesting. MR. NEARY: For the time being. MR. TOBIN: So now the federal government is going to go along with the provincial government, is that what you are saying? MR. NEARY: No, no.

What I am saying is that to put that back - I am not advocating it go back on the table now,because we have to get these plants reopened. That is the first thing. The -number one priority is to reopen these plants. Now somewhere after that, down the line, the harvesting sector of the fishing industry will have to be split from the processing sector . That is a part of our philosophy, Mr . Chairman, and up to now we have not been able to pe ·rsuade the provincial government to go along with that great reform. MR.

DINN: So the federal government, the union, and the provincial government, will buy out all the. assets of these companies, throw them out and then - MR. NEARY: What companies is the han . gentleman talking about? MR. DINN: Well 1 all the Newfoundland companies you are talking about. MR. NEARY: Are you talking aoout harvesting now or processing? 1~Rn • \J ~-

March. 24, 1983 Tape No. 616 NM- 2 MR. DINN: Both. Because according to you, now this is his option -the hon. member's option -and then you are going to separate them after. MR. NEARY: No, tlie han. gentleman is a little bit confused. MR. DINN: I see. MR. NEARY: A littl~ bit confused. What I am talking about is separating the harvesting from the processing . MR. DINN: But that is after you said you will do that, down the road. MR. NEARY: Well,let us get the plants opened first. 'MR. DINN: yes. Righ.t. MR. NEARY: I mean,an awful lot of plants in Newfoundland can go it on their own. MR. DINN: all. MR.

NEARY: We are going to nationalize it No, not nationalize it all. I am not advocating complete nationalization of the fishery. MR. DINN: Oh, all right. MR. NEARY: I still think there is roam for private enterprise. But what I am talking about are tbe Lake Group of companies, Fishery Products and Nickerson's. I ·think they should be merged into one big - in Newfoundland - Crown company. MR. DINN: Lakes, Pennys. Yes. MR. NEARY: That is what I think. MR •. DINN: Now this is the third option on the paper. MR. TOB"IN: You heard Bill Mathe~..;s saying that ddwn at Gonzaga. That is where you heard that 1381

March 24, 1983 Tape No . 616 NM - 3 MR. 'NEARY : Mr. Chainnan, if tb.e hort. gentleman thought that he should have said so a long time ago,because that is what ••e have been saying in this House since the hon. gentleman came in here. MR. CHA:I:RMAN (J;.y:lwa:rdl ; Order, please! The hon. member 's time has elapsed. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh: MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please: Order! Before I recognize the next speaker it being five o'c.:lock r have to inform the House that the Chair has not received any qu es tions for the Late Show today. SOME RON . MEMBERS : Oh , shame . Shame! MR. C!fAI:RMAN: The hon.

Pre~ident -.of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: I only got up, Mr. Speaker, because r could not stand hearing two Liberals in a row speaking. Now, we are considering - the poor han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Nearyl gets talking about fishing matters, and 1382

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 617 SD - 1 MR. MARSHALL: he is obviously in a state of panic because he knows or he thinks he knows something that is going to be stated by the government which will be stated in due course. But one thing he does know · or he should know,as with all of the other hard decisions that have to be made in this Provipce , that as far as this government is concerned, it will deal with it and it will deal with it very well.

As a matter of fact, the Premier is now in Ottawa and the Premier is spelling out a great plan and blueprint for the resolution of the problems with respect to th~ deep-sea fishery in this Province. That wil-l be revealed in due course. Now, Mr. Chairman, I would like to try to bring us back to the situation that we are in now. We are in a situation where we are considering Interim Supply. And Interim supply means the granting of supply to the government so that after April lst of this year the government will be able to pay the bills as they fall due.

The present vote of money that has been given to th .e government has been given up to the end of March 31st, 1983, and on April 1st, 1983, we will have no authority to spend. As far as the government is concerned, I think it was for the first time in recent times and I think the Minister of Finance UDr. Collins)_ has to be congratulated for thi's, he brought in the budget in timely fashion. He brought it in on­ what date was it? - March what? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MARSHALL: DR. COLLINS: MR. MARSHALL: March 17th. March. 17th .. St. Patrick's Day. Yes, St, Patrick's Day ~ ha,l.f way through the month.

He indicated what the government\s position was for the ensuing year, far 1983/19 .84. That being so, where we have the Interi'm Supply before us·, I 1383

March 24., 1983 Tape No. 617 SD-2 MR. MARSHALL: do not see why, Mr. Chairman, Interim Supply cannot pass because it is all a matter of - in years gone by they would not pass Interim Supply because they said they wanted to know when the budget was going to be brought in, they wanted to know the details of the expenditures. The details are there before the Committee right now.

After passage of Interim Supply we have to get through the budget debate which will be called . rmmediately after the passage of Interim Supply we will have consideration of Committee of the Whole on the estimates that have not been referred to committees themselves which are the Consolidated Fund, the Executive Council and the Legislature. So there is lots of business to do, Mr. Chairman, and I would suggest - MR. SIMMS: No questions on the Late Show today, Bill. MR . MARSBAL;L: MR. SIMMS: much interest . MR . MARSH..l\LL: There are no questions again - Obviously they do not have - pere you go.

There are no questions after five o'clock so we have to adjourn in half an hour. That is another half hour wasted. The hen. gentlemen have been asking 1384

March 24,1983 Tape No. 618 MR. MARSHALL: questions all week and they have not even got one question that they have been dissatisfied with or they wanted further information on. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: So that is the way in which the business of the House. ah-1 MR. NEARY: We will carry on after 5:30. We will carry on with Interim Supply. MR.MARSHALL: Well,we would only be to happy to carry on because the more time we spend on the people's business the better.

But the fact of the matter is, Mr.Chairman, there is no point really in the way in which the hon. gentlemen there opposite are debating Interim Supply. They are not really debating Interim Supply as such 1 they are talking about peripheral issues. MR.NEARY: about the fishery? MR. MARSHALL: You do not want to hear Well,we can hear about the fishery • I would suggest there is plenty of opportunity in the Budget debate and there is plenty of opportunity in others. What we have to do is deal with the business of the government.

There was a motion on Private Members' Day, the fishery was debated,and the two Private Members' Days before that. So there is plenty of debate about the fishery 1 you should not debate on Interim Supply. But I am just reminding the hon. gentlemen there opposite, because they do not seem to know what the rules of the House are, what the function of the House is, what the reason of the order of business .is. We brought in Interim Supply so that we would get two to three months supply in oreer to be able to pay the bills, 1385

March 24,1983 Tape No. 618 ah-2 MR. MARSHALL: two months1on April 1st. And I would suggest that there might be questions that might be asked about the ·bill that is before us that grants $442 million and allots it to the various headings. And then we can get on afterwards and discuss the other matters. Hr. Chairman, the total picture is known to the Opposition. The budgetary measures of the government for 1983-84 have been brought before the House.

This only asks for a one sixth allotment of it1and I would suggest that the business of the Committee and the House would be best served if we,in a timely fashion~ passed the Interim Supply. And then,as I say, as I indicated to the House,we will get on to the Committee of the Whole on the matters that will be before the whole House and then we will get on to the Budget debate. MR.NEARY: They want to have a short session. MR. MARSHALL : No,it is not a case of a short session, Mr. Chairman. I tell you, it is shocking.

We used to_pave an audience in here,but the way the han. gentlemen there opposite are conducting the debate there is nobody in the public wanting to listen to it. MR.NEARY: Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN (Dr.McNicholas): The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: What silly nonsense we just heard from the Government House Leader, Mr.Chairman. We do not need lectures from the han. gentleman. What 1386

March 24,1983 Tape No. 618 ah-3 MR . NEARY : the administration is doing is asking for one sixth of the Budget and listed under that amount are various subheads,including the fishery . Mr . Chairman, let me say this, the only opportunity we have had in this House to discuss the fishery, record unemployment ,especially among young people, the misery communities, the increase in electricity, the cost of gasoline , the shutting down of industries , the mismanagement of our natural resources, the only chance we have is when we raise it ourselves .

We on this side of the House have to take the initiative to try to raise ehe real problems in this Province . MR . TOBIN: MR.NEARY: Well,get on with it. Well ,that is what we are doing, getting on with it . But we are getting a lecture from the Government House Leader because we are doing that . We have not heard any plans about the fishery, about Labrador West, 1387

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 619 MJ - l MR. S. NEARY: about Corner Brook, about Burin, about Fermeuse, about Ramea,-about St. Lawrence, about Gaultois, about Grand Bank, about Happy Valley -Goose Bay -Labrador, Bell Island, Buchans -we have not heard Buchans mentioned this session. My point is this, that the han. gentleman is condemning us because we are raising the real issues that concern people in this Province and that is what he did. The han~. the House Leader on the government side (Mr. Marshall) gave us a little lecture on how he thinks the Opposition should be preforming. MR. L. SIMMS: that kind of thing. MR.

NEARY: You do not usually worry about No, I am not worried about it, but just in case somebody upstairs who is - SOME HON. ME!1BERS: No, no! MR. NEARY: ~tr. Chairman, just in case somebody reports that the han. gentleman took us to task -and I have to say that I have never seen the re?orting from the House as bad as it is this Session; it is absolutely incredible. I have never seen it as bad, Mr. Chairman, MR. V>J. MARSHALL: want, are you not? MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: MR. NEARY: You are getting all the answers you Pardon? You are getting all the answers you want? All the answers to what?

All the answers you always ask. No, but I am talking about the major problems that are confronting the ordinary people of this Province and the way the administration have mismanaged the economy. MR. DINN: MR. NEARY: It is the three positions I am interested in. Well, okay, I am coming back to that because I am not going to get away from that, The han. the government House Leader may' try to get me off the fishery, but the fishery happens to be one of the items mentioned in Interim Suppl.y, which gives me every r;ight to 1388

March 24, 1983 Tape No. 619 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: debate it and talk about it 1 because we have heard so little in this Session of the House about the fishery which has been completely mismanaged by the administration, Mr. Speaker, all they have been talking about fo