Manitoba Hansard — 8 November 2018 (Sitting 88B, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-88b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 88B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, November 8, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Man. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson Ind. GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen, Hon. St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

4193 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 8, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Fourth Report Mrs. Sarah Guillemard (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the Fourth Report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS presents the following as its Fourth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on the following occasions in the Legislative Building July 30, 2018 October 30, 2018 Matters under Consideration • Reappointment of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and Information and Privacy Adjudicator Committee Membership Committee Membership for the July 30, 2018 meeting: • H ON. MR. CULLEN • MR. EWASKO • MS. FONTAINE • HON. MR. GERRARD • MR. ISLEIFSON • MRS. MAYER • MS. MORLEY-LECOMTE • HON. MR. PEDERSEN • MRS. SMITH (Point Douglas) • HON. MR. STEFANSON • MR.

WIEBE Your Committee elected Mr. ISLEIFSON as the Chairperson at the July 30, 2018 meeting. Your Committee elected Ms. MORLEY -LECOMTE as the Vice -Chairperson at the July 30, 2018 meeting. Committee Membership for the October 30, 2018 meeting: • M R. ALLUM • HON. MR. CULLEN • MR. EWASKO • MRS. GUILLEMARD (Chairperson) • MS. FONTAINE • MR. LAMONT • MR. ISLEIFSON • HON. MRS. MAYER • MS. MORLEY-LECOMTE • HON. MR. PEDERSEN • MRS. SMITH (Point Douglas) Your Committee elected Mr. Isleifson as the Chairperson at the October 30, 2018 meeting.

Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record Non-Committee Members speaking on the record at the July 30, 2018 meeting: • H ON. MR. FLETCHER • MR. LAMONT Motions agreed to at the October 30, 2018 Standing Committee meeting: • THAT the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs recommends to the President o f Executive Council that Jeffrey Schnoor be reappointed as the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and the Information and Privacy Adjudicator for a term not to exceed three years from date of commencement. Mrs. Guillemard: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded b y the honourable member for Interlake (Mr.

Johnson), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to.

4194 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education and Training): I wish to table the Office of the Manitoba Fairness Commissioner, the Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Act, A Report on its Implementation and Effectiveness, January 2015 to December 2017. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS National Aboriginal Veterans Day Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): I rise today to recognize National Aboriginal Veterans Day.

Today is our opportunity as Manitobans to acknowledge and honour the many indigenous men and women who have served our country in times of war, conflict and peace. Manitoba was the first province to recognize National Aboriginal Veterans Day in 1994. This important day has since grown to become recognized all across Canada, and every year in various parts of the country you will find commemorations and ceremonies to honour indigenous people who have served in the First World War, Second World War and Korean War.

It is estimated that roughly 12,000 indigenous people joined the Canadian military to serve in these global c onflicts. They served with honour and distinction in all branches of the Armed Forces, and their bravery and sacrifice are written within the pages of history. Many of these men and women had to endure additional challenges such as cultural 'differenches' and language barriers. Despite these challenges, the valuable skills they brought that stemmed from their traditions made them excellent sailors, pilots and soldiers.

For those of us here in Manitoba, we are proud to honour local heroes such as Sergeant Tommy Prince, a veteran of the Second World War and Military Medal and Silver Star recipient. Sergeant Prince was an Ojibway from Manitoba who volunteered and served valiantly in the Second World War with the 1st Special Service Force, known as the Devil' s Brigade. He later re -enlisted to serve within the 2nd Battalion , Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry in the Korean War with United Nations forces. Throughout the three years, indigenous women also made important and valuable contributions to Canada's military.

Indigenous women contributed overseas, often as nurses, while the women at home would support in war efforts by helping raise money and by aiding in the manufacturing of key materials and supplies required by the Canadian troops. Earlier this week, I had the opportunity to spend time with some of the –Manitoba's indigenous veterans. It was truly a privilege to sit amongst heroes and listen to the stories of courage and determination. And I spent this morning at their services.

Just as I will never forget the time we spent together, I ask my colleagues and all Manitobans to never forget the many indigenous men and women who have sacrificed their lives so that Canadians might live a life of peace and inherit freedom, to never forget those who ha ve served our country and who have come home in need of comfort and support, and to never forget those who still serve in our country, so that we as Canadians can remain strong and free.

To the six amazing individuals who sat with me this week and shared their stories and the thousands of indigenous men and women who so selflessly served and continue to serve our country, thank you. Madam Speaker: And I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings had been provided in ac cordance with our rule 26(2). Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas): Today we commemorate the invaluable contribution Aboriginal veterans made to protect our country. More than 12,000 First Nations peoples served in the first and second wars and the Korean War.

In the First World War, the 114th Battalion, or Brock's Rangers, and the 107th Timber Wolf Battalion, a Winnipeg unit, were composed almost solely of Aboriginal soldiers. But unlike in Canadian society at that time, Aboriginal soldiers were not segregat ed and mainly served in units alongside non-indigenous soldiers. While they were enlisted, Aboriginal soldiers were accepted and treated as equals. Many defined themselves for their bravery and skills. During the First World War, Canada could claim eight of the best snipers, at least five of which were of Aboriginal descent.

Corporal Francis "Peggy" Pegahmagabow, from Parry Island Indian reserve in Ontario, was one of those snipers, credited with 378 kills during his four years.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4195 Many Aboriginal soldiers r eceived commendations for their bravery in action in the wars. Manitoba's own Tommy Prince from Brokenhead Ojibway Nation received 11 medals for his courage and duty during the Second World War and the Korean War, becoming the most decorated Aboriginal veteran. Despite their valour, it is sad that the fact Aboriginal veterans who put their lives on the line for our country returned to Canada and were denied the same rights as their non -Aboriginal counterparts.

As wards of the state, they faced marginalization and economic inequality. That is why we celebrate Aboriginal Veterans Day, to remember the contributions and sacrifices Aboriginal veterans made to protect our country. I would like to extend a thank you to all those First Nations, Inuit and Metis ve terans that fought for our country. Your sacrifices will always be remembered. Ms. Judy Klassen (Kewatinook): Madam Speaker, I'm honoured to speak today to Aboriginal Veterans Day to honour and respect my people who have fought for Canada over many years.

This includes our great Sergeant Tommy Prince of Brokenhead First Nation. A great -great-grandson of Chief Peguis, Tommy Prince received numerous awards for his service in both World War II and the Korean War for his courage and exceptional skills. His story also reminds us of that –of what we need, always to be there to support our veterans when they return from their service. More than 12,000 First Nations, Inuit and Metis Canadians have served within the Canadian Forces at home and overseas. Many of my people gave up their lives so that we can enjoy the many freedoms we now take for granted.

But many were also forced to give up their status rights and lost the benefits as First Nations people. In some cases, indigenous veterans were denied the services and support offered to not their – non-Aboriginal veterans, including land and education and voting benefits. I want to say thank you to all our Aboriginal veterans on behalf of the Liberal caucus. I want to say thank you for your service and for the future it has given us. Megwetch. Madam Speaker: Further ministerial statements?

The honourable First Minister, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable First Minister please proceed with his statement. First World War Commemoration Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, oftentimes ordinary people are called upon to do extraordinary things. These individuals don't think of themselves as extraordinary. Indeed, they often downplay their own role, no matter how valiant.

But it is a testament to all that's good and right in the world when good people raise their hands, volunteer to serve and take great risks to ensure the freedom and survival of all. When we speak of remembrance, we often simply state that our veterans gave us our freedom. There's no doubt about this, though it goes much deeper than that. In Canada, our veterans, both past and present, have not only given us our freedoms, they have helped shape the very country we live in. And to this day, Canada, still a young country, continues to be shaped by the men and women who have served, are serving and will serve.

They giv e shape to the Canadian spirit: ideals of freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law. * (13:40) This year marks the 100th anniversary of the end of the First World War and t oday also marks National Aboriginal Veterans Day, and we are reminded, in particular, of the tremendous service that First Nations, Inuit, Metis, and all indigenous Canadians–and we thank them for their sacrifice and dedication, as we thank all our veterans.

Madam Speaker, when Canada joined her Commonwealth allies in battle in 1914, our population was less than eight million people in Canada, and it is astounding that 650,000 brave and mainly young Canadians joined in the defence of freedom in Europe and, by extension, freedom here at home. The casualties of that war were startling: over 68,000 would not return, another 170,000 suffered injuries that changed their lives forever. Almost 40 per cent of those who served suffered injury or died in battle.

General David Watson stated: It need hardly be a matter of surprise that the Canadians, by this time, had the reputation of being the best shock troops in

4196 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 the Allied army. The Canadian superiority was proven beyond question. It's my distinct honour today to profile the courage and resilience of Manitoba's own Stan Butterworth, who served in the Second World War and who I had the great honour of breaking bread with just a few minutes ago. He is joined today by Lieutenant-Colonel Rod Klinck, former commanding officer of the Fort Garry Horse.

In the midst of active service abroad, he also had to deal with the death of his brother, Fred, but Stan demonstrated a stoicism that was reflective of many in the service and perhaps of his generation. He said: I was a member of a crew. The war was not over. We had to go on from there. To Mr. Butterworth: The people of our province and our country salute you, and we are honoured to have you with us today. Let us all commit, as proud Manitobans and Canadians, to refoc using our minds and hearts toward the ultimate sacrifice made by our people.

They have contributed to the cause of a safer world and a more secure future here at home. I thank and we all thank our veterans. We thank you for your selfless courage. We thank you for your belief in Canada. We thank you for your willingness to stand and to offer your lives for your country. You have done more than any leader, any theory or any policy could ever achieve. You have given life to the Canadian dream and we are the fortunate inheritors of your sacrifice and your commitment. On behalf of a grateful people, I say God bless our veterans. Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, as I begin, I would like to thank all the veterans who are in at tendance today in the gallery and, certainly, reconfirm the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) words of thanks and gratitude for the sacrifice and contributions that you have made to this great country to protecting our freedoms and standing up for our democracy. It is a tremendous honour for me to be able to rise today and pay tribute to those Canadians who served in Word War I.

Many people say that the First World War was the birth of our nation, and this weekend, as we mark Remembrance Day in Winnipeg this year, we will also be commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I. We will remember those brave Canadians who served and helped to lead the Allied forces to victory in that Great War. Now it should be noted , towards the end of World War I, between August 8th and November 11th, 1918, in what would become Canada's Hundred Days, our soldiers launched a series of surprise attacks and breached the Hindenburg Line which made up the German defences.

Now, that is significant in the contribution that our forces made, because our Canadian soldiers had a reputation for being among the best attacking soldiers participating on the Western Front. Now, as a result of that battle, victory would be soon met by the Allied forces. Canadian soldiers certainly played an important role, being the vanguard for those attacks. Now, the reputation of these troops was so awesome that their movements had to be kept secret, because if the Germans became aware that Canadian troops were on the move, they would know that a n attack was imminent.

During this conflict, more than 60,000 Canadian soldiers lost their lives, and more than 170,000 were injured. And that hundred days, Canada's Hundred Days, saw 6,800 of those sacrifices. It can truly be said that it is during the First World War when the terror of modern warfare became apparent on the world stage. It saw the introduction of many technologies which rendered warfare more efficient. It saw the brutal stalemate of trench warfare, and, of course, today we have a growing recognition of the impact of post -traumatic stress on our soldiers.

But, unfortunately, too many generations of soldiers from this world war suffered with that without proper recognition and supports. So later today we'll be asking everybody in the House to stand together and send a message to our federal government that if you stand up in this country and you pick up a helmet and you pick up a gun to defend our flag, then this nation owes you a debt of gratitude and ought to properly take care of you for the rest of your life. Canada's accomplishments in World War I helped us to become an independent nation on the world stage.

I do want to acknowledge the many Manitobans who were part of this victory. Most came from modest backgrounds; they were farmers , labourers, recent immigrants, indigenous people.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4197 One of my personal heroes, Francis Pegahmagabow, as we well know, was one of the most effective snipers in the First World War. I also want to pay tribute to the many women who contributed to the war ef fort of Canada during World War I , serving as nurses overseas but also in rallying home defence. There were women in this country who put on uniforms, who trained, who learned how to shoot rifles in defence of our homeland right here on Canadian territory.

On a personal level, I would like to salute my mom's grandpa, my maternal great -grandfather, Grandpa Bill Avery, who served in World War I and who was gassed. In closing, to all the soldiers of all the wars, but, perhaps, most poignantly on this anniver sary, those who served in World War I, we salute you for your sacrifice in this hall of democracy. We can serve here because of the contributions that you made. Each day we benefit from the peace that you fought for, so I say miigwech, merci and thank you. Mr.

Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Speaker, it is an honour to rise and speak in remembrance as we approach the 100th anniversary of the end of the First World War on November 11th, 1918. It may be difficult now to imagine the sheer horror and destruction of those wars which left so many million dead and so many young lives cut short. Today is also Aboriginal Veteran's Day, and we should recall the thousands of Aboriginal Canadians who fought and died only to return home and fi nd the rights they fought for for others were denied to them.

Manitobans signed up for service in extraordinary numbers, and tributes to their sacrifice are seen not just outside this Chamber on the Rotunda mural, but down Memorial Boulevard, out the front steps of this Legislature , and in memorials and cenotaphs in every town in Manitoba. I have many relatives who served in conflicts in combat, non- combat and in civilian support. They were lucky, and I am lucky because they survived, as so many did not. On my mother's side, my maternal grandfather, Robert Barrett, was born in 1899 and served in both the First and Second World Wars.

His older brother, Alfred Barrett, had moved to Alberta, then enlisted with the Canadian Field Artillery and returned to Europe. He was killed in action at Vimy, but his final resting place is still unknown. * (13:50) Another great -uncle, Jack Clarke, was awarded the George Medal. In 1941, on a training flight, he was shot down by fighters. His plane crashed and he returned to the burning wreckage to pull his instructor and save him. On my father's side, my great -uncle, Frank Bastin, grew up in Winnipeg.

He was part of the Canadian shock troops and fought at the Somme and at Vimy, and he wrote of his experience at the Somme. He wrote, quote: When our artillery barrage opened at zero hour , the hail of bullets and shrapnel facing us w as terrific. It was like facing a blizzard with the constant buzz of machine gun bullets and the crack of those passing close to one's head and the explosions of shrapnel shells adding to the clamour. I trudged steadily forward and gone several hundred yards when I realized that I was all alone.

The battalion entered this battle about 900 strong, and we numbered just over 100 when we reached our billets late that night. He added: I met the finest men I have ever known in the 3rd Battalion. An idea promulga ted by pacifists is that good soldiers must be insensitive and brutal, but this is quite wrong. Self -control, intelligence and keen perception are the qualities which make men outstanding in war and in peace. In late August 1918 Frank was shot in action and a telegram was sent to his family reporting that he was dead.

A few weeks later, they received a second, much happier telegram from him, telling them that he was alive. He lived to a ripe old age, and, as a judge, made a landmark ruling that made an impression on Canadian culture: he ruled that hockey fights are legal. My uncle and aunt were both in forces in the Second World War, but did not see combat. But, while we often focus on the First and Second World War, it is critical to remember conflicts like Korea, t he first Gulf War, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan.

4198 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 My sister, Alexandra, was a civilian serving in Kabul, Afghanistan, during the conflict there, for three years, working with the RCMP, training Afghan police. At the end of his life, my great -uncle Frank Bastin was on his deathbed and he was repeating the same thing over and over again. It took a while for our family to make it out, but he was saying: I just want to do my duty and not be afraid. My paternal grandfather, John "Bud" Lamont, who was a Liberal MLA for Iberville in the late 1930s, also fought in the first war in France and at Mons in Belgium.

And, just after the peace, 100 years ago, the armistice that we are marking, he wrote a letter home to his family from Belgium. The war had just ended, and he passed the body of an enemy soldier who had been killed in the last hours of the war. A few hours later, he passed the body again, and the boots had been stolen, and it was raining. He looked at the bare feet of his dead foe in the rain and thought how easily it could've been him. In the midst of the horror of war, we need to recall the common humanity we all share. We remember, on November 11th, to recognize the sacrifice of those who fought and died.

We owe it to them and to ourselve s to ensure that those who fought and died did not fight and die in vain, but for a better world. It is up to us to honour them by building that better world. We need to stand up to fight when it matters and be willing to beat our swords into ploughshares when the battle is done. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr.

Pallister: I wonder if I could ask for leave to devote a moment of silence following the comments of my colleagues this afternoon, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Madam Speaker: The–we have one more member indicating they –that he wishes to speak, and then, after that, I would ask is there leave to call a moment of silence in recognition of our veterans? [Agreed] Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The first– Madam Speaker: Oh, the honourable member for Assiniboia needs to request leave to speak. Mr. Fletcher: Yes, sure. Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to speak to the ministerial statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Fletcher: The first battle of Ypres, the Battle of the Somme, the second battle of Ypres, Vimy Ridge, Passchendaele, the third battle of Ypres, the Hundred Days of victory, led by the Canadian Expeditionary Force of which the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry were a member; we think of Sir Arthur Currie or Sir Sam Steele and other great Canadians. We reflect that a third of the eligible people of Aboriginal descent, a third of the adult population, volunteered.

Madam Speaker, 650,000 Canadians volunteered; 172,000 came back wounded, 65,000 didn't come back –gone forever. These were future businessmen, family men, prime ministers, MLAs, farmers–potential that we'll never see. But their sacrifice of their potential allows people today to reach their full potential. We have a legacy and a future. The three members, residents on Pine Street, didn't know each other, but all ended up with the Victoria Cross, the highest award for bravery. That's Pine Street in Winnipeg, now called Valour Roa d.

And that's just an example of what every single one of those souls did for our country. We can't go to any community on the Prairies–to big towns or small town s–without seeing the cenotaphs in the heart of each community that list the names of those w ho did not make it back, perhaps they list the names of those who served. It doesn't list the names of those people who were never born or the accomplishments that never happened because of the sacrifice of so many. John McCrae, in his poem Flanders Fields, says it very well. We have the torch now. But the –perhaps the most poignant poet is Wilfred Owen. And Mr.

Owen died, but his words live on as, hopefully, the legacy of those who died lives on, through us and through our descendants. Madam Speaker, t hank you for the opportunity to speak, and I'd like to thank everyone for allowing the opportunity. We live in the best country in the world, the best time in human history to be alive and there isn't a day that goes by that any of us don't thank God that we are Canadian. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Please rise for a moment of silence. A moment of silence was observed.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4199 MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Remembrance Day Mr. Jon Reyes (St. Norbert): First of all, I want to thank members who've already participated in Remembrance Day ceremonies. And I also want to thank members in advance who will be participating at services this weekend. Our veterans here in the gallery and veterans around our nation truly appreciate it.

Many schoolchildren will be lining up for school Remembrance Day services, walking down the halls, in line with other kids in class, and heading towards the school gym, sitting down in orderly fashion, then listening to Flanders Fie lds, the Last Post and the Lament. I urge parents, especially new Canadians , to attend a service this weekend to remember the reason why you live in this great country, Canada. For me, Madam Speaker, I would join the service right after high school. I would go on to serve 10 years in both the reserves and the regular force. When I served, I just did my job.

I wasn't expecting anything–didn't need to be told thanks for what I did. I just did my job. * (14:00) My job was to serve my country, and I was proud to do so. When I left the service, what I missed the most about it was the camaraderie and the places I went to around the world. I would travel a lot naturally, with the Royal Canadian Navy, being posted on the HMCS Winnipeg. I was fortunate not to be on active duty in the areas of conflict or deployed to war -torn countries. However, like veterans we have here today, I had an obligation.

We had an obligation to serve our country even if it meant sacrificing our lives. We all made that commitment to Queen and country. Some of you went to war, and we know some of them went and, unfortunately, never came back. Some of us would serve together, some of us would start our careers together, and if we were lucky we would see each other again during the time we served. Sometimes it would be after our time in the forces ended. In the case of my good friend Master Warrant Officer, Retired, Jon Hawtin –Jon, who would have known we'd be reunited again this past summer in V irden?

It only took the Virden Indoor Rodeo to see each other again, thanks to the member from Arthur-Virden. The camaraderie will never go away, and continue to thank each other and every one of these veterans, and the men and women who continue to serve should never be taken for granted. So today, again and again, I can never thank you enough. We can never thank you enough. So today and on Remembrance Day and every day, I will always thank each and every one of you; thank you, thank you for your service. Madam Speaker, I wish to have the guests, my guest veterans recorded into Hansard, their names, please.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to record the names of the guests in Hansard? [Agreed] Veterans: Steven Andrushko, Wright Eruebi, Jon Hawtin, Michel Latouche. Matthew Shorting and Jonathan Meikle Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): When duty calls how will you respond? Well, Matthew Shorting and Jonathan "Johnny" Meikle know the answer. At 12 a.m. on Sunday morning they saw an intoxicated man harassing an innocent bystander on a bus here in Winnipeg, peppering him with racial slurs.

Now, when the intoxicated man pulled out a knife about to stab this innocent bystander, Matthew jumped up to intervene and then Johnny Spartan kicked this guy backwards. Seeing young children on the bus, the two of them wrestled this intoxicated person off and onto the street. Now, Johnny was stabbed in the grappling match that ensued. They held the man until police arrived to arrest him. Now, in the abstract, Madam Speaker, of course we don't want people to put their lives at risk to intervene in violent situations, but in the real world these two men clearly saved lives in our city.

Now, Matthew works with educators and with young people, talking about his own experience coming out of the child -welfare system and going to become a man who is empowered and in ch arge of his own destiny today. Johnny is a veteran of the Afghan war who recently marked one year of sobriety. He says, and I quote: This is just one example of the way my life is

4200 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 shifting for the better. I was able to do what was right. End quote. Now, given their own journeys, they still feel compassion for this man that they had to intervene against recently. Matthew says, quote: Can you imagine if he received the same love and attention that we are getting now? End quote.

So I wanted to take time today in front of all our colleagues to thank these two young men, to say miigwech for being heroes, miigwech for answering the call of duty and miigwech for never forgetting that true warriors are guided by love for every single person in our community. I would ask the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and all of our colleagues today to rise and pay tribute to these fine young men. St-Labre 200 Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye): Today I rise in this House to congratulate the St -Labre 200 on celebrating their 10th anniversary.

What started out to be a friendly competition between members of the Grenier family has turned into a major fundraising event for southeastern Manitoba. The St-Labre 200 is a go-cart race, where on day one you build a go -cart with parts like a motor, clutch, brakes and tires that are supplied by the committee and the rest of the cart you fabricate on site. On day two you get to race your cart in a grueling 200-lap race on a dirt track. Madam Speaker, the great part of this event, that there's–is that there is no charge for admission.

It includes free camping, a display of fireworks and entertainment for all who attend. All the committee asks is that you bring a non-perishable food item or a cash donation for a local Helping Hands food bank. Madam Speaker, the best

part is that in their 10 years as an organization, they have donated close to $90,000 to local charities, colle cted thousands of pounds of food for local food banks, and the event continues to grow: 1,500- plus spectators come out and enjoy this weekend. Madam Speaker, I would like to thank and congratulate the committee and volunteers for all the hard work they do to make this event possible. The participants and the spectators that enjoy a good race and this small-town atmosphere makes the St-Labre 200 so much fun.

I would ask all members to go online and check out the St -Labre 200 and maybe next year be a participant or at least a spectator. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Diwali Celebration Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Yesterday, November 27th–November 7th, sorry–was this year's official celebration of Diwali. So today I stand to speak about why this festival is celebrated all over the world. Diwali marks the end of harvest season and is celebrated on the third day coinciding with the darkest night of the lunar month. It's a joyous occasion filled with sweets and dancing. And it is also known as the Festival of Lights.

Now, this Festival of Lights includes fireworks and firecrackers being set off all night long. Children love it and families hang up lights and set out candles all over their homes. The reason for all the lights and candles are to pay tribute to and to guide the goddess Lakshmi into their homes. Madam Speaker, these lights are also a reminder of the importance of knowledge and self-improvement. Diwali symbolizes good over - ruling evil. It's about doing right over wrong and light overcoming darkness.

In closing, Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hindu Society of Manitoba for hosting an annual Diwali Mela event this past Saturday. And I hope that everyone had a happy Diwali. Thank you. Manitoba's Oil Industry Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Arthur-Virden): Madam Speaker, I rise here in this House today to give due diligence to those who spend their lives and dedication–dedicate their time and commitment to the Manitoba oil industry. Whether you are a CEO of an oil company or a worker on an oil rig, these men and women commit countless hours of their lives working in one of the –Manitoba's greatest hidden treasures.

Manitoba is home to two potential areas of oil and gas production, the southwest Manitoba and the Hudson Bay Lowlands. Oil was discovered in Manitoba and has been produced since 1951.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4201 Manitoba's current oil production is in the southwest Manitoba along the northern flank of the Williston Basin, which also occupies portions of Saskatchewan, North Dakota and Montana. The oldest producing oil well was drilled back in 1951. Manitoba's most productive oil well in northern part of Manitoba was –produces 2.03 million barrels of oil since 1955. Both locations are in the constituency of Arthur-Virden.

While 80 per cent of the oil rights are owned by private individuals or companies, the remaining 20 per cent is owned by the Province of Manitoba as Crown land. Last year over 240 new wells were drilled as a total of 6,100 producing wells in the province. The total oil industry expenditures in Manitoba is two –in 2017 were approximately $750 million. This equates to a total spinoff of approximately $1.5 billion to our province's economy. As you can see by these stats, Manitoba's oil industry has been an important part of life for both oilfield families and business community in Arthur-Virden.

To all the hard- working individuals in the oil patch, we commend you for the time and dedication you have committed to making our oil industry one of the safest and with one of the highest environmental standards in the country. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have a number of guests in our galleries that I would like to introduce to you. Seated in the Speaker's Gallery, we have with us today Mr.

Stan Butterworth and Lieutenant -Colonel Rod Klinck, who are the guests of the honourable First Minister. * (14:10) And also in the Speaker's Gallery we have with us today Mr. John Hawtin, Mr. Michel Latouche and Mr. Scott Stroh, who are the guests of the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Reyes). On behalf of all honourable members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. We also have guests here as guests of the member for Point Douglas (Mrs. Smith), and they are here from Yoruba, Nigeria, and other parts of the world.

They're here to celebrate ASA Day 2018, a cultural day to celebrate indigenous diver sity, language, beliefs, values and culture. We have with us Joel Olaniyi Oyatoye, a Yatniy Communication International host; His Royal Highness Adekunle Asamu; Queen Agnes Oyeyemi; Chief Ms. Toyin Adegbola; Ms. Rukayat Lawal; Ms. Bose Akinola; Ms. Lizzy Anjorin; and Mr. Lanre. On behalf of all members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature.

And seated in the public gallery , from Rosenort School, we have six grade 12 law students under the direction of Arlin Scharfenberg, and this groups is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Morris (Mr. Martin). Seated also in the public gallery, from Kildonan- East Collegiate, we have 36 grade 9 students under the direction of Luke Klassen, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe).

And also seated in the public gallery we have guests here, former Thompsonites, Gary Domann–of Winnipeg now–and his daughter, Christine Auger of Oshawa, who are the guests of the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Bindle). And we also welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS St. Boniface Hospital NICU Mandatory Overtime Concerns Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, a nurse is raising the alarm. She's voicing serious concerns about the state of the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit at St. Boniface Hospital in a letter which I will table now.

Now, this unit cares for the most vulnerable children in our province, children who need the most intensive forms of interventions. Now, this nurse says, and I quote, she's worked in the NICU for more than 30 years, and in those decades she has never seen the amount of voluntary and mandatory overtime that is occurring right now. Now, what this nurse says quite clearly in the letter is that the Minister of Health is putting misinformation out into the public sphere about the state of affairs at St. Bonifa ce Hospital. Now, we owe it to our most vulnerable patients to get to the bottom of this.

4202 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 Now, we know that the result of this mandatory overtime is as a result of the cuts and the changes in phase 1 of this Premier's plan for health care. Why has this government refused to listen to the front-line workers like the nurse who wrote this letter? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Au contraire, Madam Speaker, 30 new nurses have been added to the neonatal unit because we're listening to the front-line nurses who we very much respect and– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: I would like to table a second letter. This one is from the CEO of St. Boniface Hospital, Martine Bouchard, to Réal Cloutier, who is the CEO of the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. This letter is dated September 26th of this year. Now, it's one thing for front-line nurses to raise the alarm, but now senior management has also noticed the effect of this Premier's cuts and closures. Now, the CEO of St.

Boniface writes, and I quote: Mandatory overtime, exhaustion and moral distress currently being expe rienced as a result of chronically functioning over capacity. The impact of another staff being seconded to NICU leaves other units at risk and creates a domino effect. End quote. Now, combined with the letter from the nurse who says that the situation is far from good, we are seeing a dramatic impact of the situation at St. Boniface Hospital. And, again, this began in January of 2018, according to the CEO. Why has this minister misled Manitobans about the situation at St. Boniface Hospital and the NI CU at St.

Boniface? Mr. Pallister: The member raises a topic of mutual concern, but, unfortunately, chooses to word his

preamble in such a manner as to imply that this was not an issue of long-standing concern which, Madam Speaker, is exactly what the letter conveys. This was an issue of long -standing concern that was unaddressed by the previous NDP government. We're addressing it. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Again, the letter dem onstrates that the mandatory overtime situation became crisis beginning in January 2018. The CEO of St.

Boniface Hospital goes on to write, and I quote here: The current clinical and human resource impact to operate a unit over its allotted baseline is u nsustainable and puts our newborns at risk with potential mortality and morbidity consequences for the remainder of their lives. End quote. So the current situation at St. Boniface Hospital puts newborns at risk, potentially with impacts that will play out for the rest of their lives. That is the view of the CEO of St. Boniface Hospital, as expressed in that letter. This is the current situation as a result of the staffing changes ordered by this Premier.

It is confirmed by the previous letter from that front-line nurse. Will the Premier acknowledge the impact of the cuts that he is ordering and the staffing changes that he has directed? Mr. Pallister: Well, I recognize the member's tendency toward fear mongering, Madam Speaker. Nonetheless, there are 1 1 new neonatal beds at HSC and, at St. Boniface, 30 new nursing positions. We're listening to the front -line workers. We're acting. Nurse overtime is not up; it is down over the last two years since we came to government by 29 per cent.

And, again, I would encourage the member that although politically he may be motivated to try to instill fear in people –mothers of children, children themselves–nonetheless, this is counterproductive. And, frankly, using dishonest information in his arguments doesn't help strengthen them; it weakens them. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Staffing at St. Boniface Hospital NICU Release of Infant Mortality Rate Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): The letter from the CEO of the St.

Boniface Hospital shows that overtime became a crisis beginning in January of 2018. She writes in this letter, and I quote here: We cannot confirm without a doubt that neonatal deaths (four) were directly related to understaffing issues. End quote. And she makes reference that that conclusion came out of the St. Boniface Hospital's perinatal morbidity and mortality committee.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4203 So, again, the quote from the letter says, quote: We cannot confirm without a doubt that neonatal deaths, four, were directly related to understaffing issues. End quote. Now, this is certainly a very concerning sentence to read in a letter, Madam Speaker, and I do believe that Manitobans deserve to hear the answers as to what is the situation. Why is somebody pondering a connection between neonatal deaths and understaffing issues? Will the Premier commit to releasing the report of this committee that is being referenced to in this letter? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Unbelievable, Madam Speaker. The member is raising statistical– pointing out statistics on dead babies –an incredible tragedy and, obviously, one that should be treated with incredible respect and dignity –that occurred between 2009 and 2012. Madam Speaker, that's beneath contempt to try to link the reforms that we're pursuing to improve the systems of health-care delivery in our province with the death of children that occurred while the NDP was in government is specious and morally decrepit. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Again, Madam Speaker, observers will note that I am quoting directly from the letter and citing statistics that are in the–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –report that I tabled for the benefit of the Premier. And, again, the situation of understaffing at the hospital that is being referred to in the line of questioning today reached a crisis point in January of 2018. Now, I a m mindful of the fact that the Minister of Health made a recent announcement on the staffing level at NICU.

But I would point out for the benefit of those watching and those in the Chamber today that this was an announcement made after these letters were signed and sent to the Minister of Health . And so the timing of the minister's announcement certainly raises some questions, and that's why we are asking for the report that was published and released by this committee to be made public. There are very ser ious concerns which are being outlined in this letter. Will the Premier commit to releasing that report? Mr. Pallister: Member has put false allegations on the record.

I'd appreciate it and I know all Manitobans interested in facts around health- care reform discussions would appreciate if he withdrew his comments. His allegations are absolutely false. * (14:20) The deaths referred to –that he referred to in his

preamble and that he quoted from a letter occurred between 2009 and 2012. Now, we are acting on the advice we are getting from experts as well as front -line personnel, and we are taking that action with the certain focus that we want to prevent any such future occurrences. But, Madam Speaker, we will not trot out the death of children as an argument to try to fortify our case. Madam Speaker, $3.2 million of new funding has been allocated to neonatal by this government because of the concerns the member raises.

He should stick to raising those concerns, not cite false statistics around dead babie s, because, Madam Speaker, that is deplorable, and again, I would encourage him to apologize for doing so. Madam Speaker: The–[interjection] Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: I've tabled the letter for the Premier. He can read the facts in that letter onto the record if he likes, Madam Speaker.

I will return to the original letter which was signed by that NICU nurse, because it's quite powerful, Madam Speaker, and I will simply let her words carry the rest of this interaction. She says, and I quote: We care for Manitoba's, Ontario, Saskatchewan, Nunavut and the United States' smallest and most fragile population with a fierce dedication to do our utmost. We are well acquainted with life and d eath, and we know the difference between good and not good, and this, sir, is not good. We need safe working conditions; lives depend on it. End quote.

Those are the words of the nurse in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit at St. Boniface Hospital. Will this Premier listen to the words of this nurse, will he publish the report that is made

4204 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 reference to in this letter and will he commit to following up on all the recommendations coming out of St. Boniface NICU? Mr. Pallister: The member has, again, neglect ed an opportunity, failed to take advantage of an opportunity, to correct the record in respect of his allegations–which were false, Madam Speaker – concerning the death of children as a consequence of health-care reforms in the process of being undertaken.

He's also citing from a letter which was written prior to the allocation of $3.2 million and the announcement of $3.2 million towards the very focused area that he is now citing. So, Madam Speaker, quite frankly, although it's difficult to listen to someone who cites false statistics or who references false situations, which weaken their argument, it is not difficult to listen to front-line workers. That is exactly what we are doing and taking action as a result. Methamphetamine Crisis Plan of Action Needed Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): The current meth crisis highlights the true colours of the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) and his ministers. When the children's advocate called the government to provide a concrete plan of action addressing youth mental health and addiction, the Minister of Health didn't rise to the occasion. Instead, he got into a fight, dismissing her expertise, and I quote, as finger pointing. The Minister of Justice is no better: across- the- board cuts to tools that fight the meth c risis, including the integrated organized task force and initiatives that look to disrupt gang activity. When will the Premier start treating this meth crisis seriously? Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, Madam Speaker, we recognize there's an issue affecting our communities across the province, and we're taking steps to address it. And we're working closely with our partners on the criminal justice side. In fact, we're supporting our partners. In fa ct, today, our government just announced $200,000 to support blare –Bear Clan Patrol and all the good work the Bear Clan does across the city and actually across Manitoba.

We've announced $126,000 from the proceeds of crime fund, an additional $70,000 from the Municipal Relations Neighbourhood Renewal Fund. These are tools the Bear Clan can use to combat illicit drugs here in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Family Conciliation Services Budget Reduction Concerns Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): The Premier insists less is more, but his arguments have worn thin on Manitobans. Case in point, Madam Speaker: they have cut hundreds of thousands of dollars for Family Conciliation Services.

And in Jul y, Justice Doyle said in court, and I quote: There's a dramatic loss of resources in regard to Family Conciliation Services, end quote , warning the necessary assessments were not being done to serve families or justice. Why is the Premier cutting the serv ices Manitoba families need? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, I appreciate the question from the member, and this allows me an opportunity to talk about the investments we're making in fighting crime here in Manitoba.

The provincial budget for policing across the province has gone up $6.8 million; that's an additional $5.3 million for RCMP Manitoba, over 1.2 for First Nations policing and other initiatives we've taken. Additionally, for the C ity of Winnipeg, we hav e committed $46 million, including $20 million of unconditional funding for the City of Winnipeg. And, quite frankly, Madam Speaker, the results we've seen just a week ago in terms of turning over $2.7 million of illicit drugs and property and assets for illicit work in crime, these are the kinds of results that we're getting in Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Social Services Appeal Board Access to Justice System Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Well, I would ask the minister how about the people that are losing their lives because of his inaction? So, whether it's the meth crisis–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –or support for famil ies, the Premier is failing Manitobans. And now, with Bill 24, the

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4205 Premier wants to remove the ability of Manitobans to exercise their Charter rights, Madam Speaker. Janet Forbes, executive director of Inclusion Winnipeg says, and I quote: I think it's really an erosion of people's rights to access the justice system. End quote. Why is the Premier stripping protections for Manitoba's most vulnerable people? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, Madam Speaker, we're taking steps to modernize our criminal justice system, things that the NDP government did not do for 17 years.

We have a separate department within Justice dealing with victims of a crime. And these are important initiatives tha t our government has undertaken. We've–also supporting other initiatives. We're talking about initiatives like HealthIM, which provides mental health resources to front -line police officers to make assessments when they are dealing with mental health ind ividuals when they come across. We're investing an extra –more–$390,000, Canadian Centre for Child Protection. These are some of the initiatives that we are undertaking–previous government did not have an interest in.

We are getting results, and more resu lts will come, Madam Speaker. Lifeflight Air Ambulance Privatization Concerns Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, the Pallister government has made it very clear – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –that their decisions are all about the money. Sixteen Lifeflight doctors have now made it clear, directly to the Minister of Health, that their plans are only focused on dollars and cents and not on the quality or safety of patients. They have real concerns about downgrading the type of airc raft used, service levels and quality of service delivery.

They are ready to resign their service if the minister goes ahead as planned. Will the–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: Will the minister or anybody over there listen to these doctors and keep Lifeflight public? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): I'm pleased to respond to the member's question. Last week, when I received a message from the doctors for Lifeflight, I immediately committed to meeting with them, and we made that meeting happen within the space of less than a week, which took some doing with their schedules and our own.

I was pleased to be at that meeting with the member – or the Minister for Infrastructure as well. Here's what we h eard from the doctors when the meeting started. They said not only does the government have to right –has the right to ask questions about efficiency, they have an obligation to keep asking questions about efficiency of service. Why? To get better service provision for all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Northern Patient Transfer Program Funding Reduction Concerns Mr.

Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, this government has no right to put dollars and cents ahead of patient care in Manitoba. The minister knows this and that's why he's denied, over and over, in this House there's been any change to Northern Patient Transfer. But his own funding letter to the Northern Health Region shows that $1.4 million has been cut from that program under the instruction of Cabinet. We've heard repeatedly from northern Manitobans who say that staff now are overturning medical recommendations on what kind of transport should take place.

Why is this Minister of Health only focused on the money and not doctors' advice and not the best interests of Manitoba patients? * (14:30) Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): So the statements of the member are patently false. Yesterday, my opening comments at the meeting were to state again for the doctors that we take a safety -first approach and that, simply, if the service cannot be proven to be better and safer through the RFP process that we're embarking on, we simply won't do it.

But I would also want to say about the Northern Patient Transportation Program the member is also wrong. That program continues to have increased investment and increased use by Manitobans.

4206 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Meth Cases at Health Facilities Expanded Powers for Security Officers Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Well, this minister needs to be familiar with his own budget , which shows those cuts. The protection of health- care professionals should not take a back seat to trying to cut cost s, and it's clear that tools that we have in place to fight this methamphetamine crisis are being sorely tested.

Security guards in our health-care facilities have said clearly, they're uncertain about their legal protection when they do their job. This government has the ability to review the powers that those security guards have. Will the Minister of Health o r the Minister of Justice (Mr. Cullen) or anybody over there take responsibility, commit to reviewing the powers of security officers to ensure they have the tools they need to meet the demands of this terrible drug crisis in this province? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, the incredible ability of the member and his colleagues to stay totally unfocused on getting value for people is just amazing to see repeated day after day in here. None of the air ambulance services the NDP offered–which were increasingly privatized under the NDP, by the way–were ever tendered. Meaning they never, ever attempted to determine if they could get better value for money. So they were borrowing money to provide services which they never shopped for.

Imagine if Manitobans did that in their own homes, in their own small businesses, the disaster that would create for them. Madam Speaker, it created a disaster for the people of Manitoba anyway because it created a billion-dollar debt-service cost this year alone. None of the services were ever tendered. There was no guarantee of available aircraft. No service standards were established. There were insufficient safety requirements.

We're cleaning that all up and we're looking at the possiblity of doing what seven other provinces have already done, which is look to the private sector to provide services that are better, safer and and at lower cost as well. Manitoba's Civil Service Hiring Practice Reform Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Last week the Premier and the Finance Minister announced a report that found irregular government hiring practices, suggesting that people were hired on contracts when there were other public servants w ho were eligible, apparently , also including an assistant deputy minister.

It was suggested that there was irregular contracting, namely, that people who should have been treated as employees and taxed on their income were, instead, working for corporations, some of them outside of Manitoba. The result was that these people were avoiding taxes that they should have paid. H owever, this review only looked into a time period when the NDP was in power. The government has announced the scope of the review will be expanded to Crown corporations and academia, but will it expand to include hiring practices up 'til the present under this government? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, it won't be expanded because it's alr eady been done, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition–[interjection] Order. Order. The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a supplementary question. Tax Avoidance Conflict of Interest Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Again, I'm glad the Premier highlighted the very serious issue of tax avoidance in his press conference, Madam Speaker.

While tax evasion is criminal and illegal, tax avoidance is perfectly legal, although, certainly, it may be seen as wrong when somebod y who earns millions of dollars a year pays a lower tax rate than someone who makes $30,000. In the news today it was reported that this government has s pent $16 million on contractors . [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4207 Mr. Lamont: Many of them are giant accounting firms whose business is telling companies and individuals to legally avoid taxes, and sometimes they cross the line and get in trouble with the CRA. Part of the reason we have such a big deficit is that companies like–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –KPMG tell their clients how to legally avoid paying taxes, then they tell cash- strapped governments they should cut and privatize. Does the Premier see the inherent conflict here? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, does the member see the inherent conflict in a Prime Minister calling people who abide by the tax laws tax evaders over 50 times in the House of Commons? Does he see the inherent conflict in a Prime Minister and a Finance Minister trying to hit small -business people who are struggling to make ends meet with higher taxes and calling them tax evaders? I see the inherent conflict in that. I think that people who are –run our small businesses in this province and across the country are the engine of growth. They're the spark plugs for our economy. They create jobs.

They put money at risk. They don't have benefits and securities like many enjoy, including people in this Chamber, and they should be respected and not called tax evaders, as the member and his colleagues in eastern Canada have done. And that's why this province, this government stood up and led the fight against the federal Liberal government's proposals that jack up taxes on small-business people, and we'll continue to stand up for the small-business sector in this province. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Lamont: Madam Speaker, the hiring audit shows there's a clear double standard in conflict of interest requirements for the public service compared to elected officials. Again, the review showed that public servants were working as contractors and using corporations outside of Manitoba to reduce the income tax they owed. Again, governments across Canada, i ncluding Manitoba, are losing revenue due both to tax evasion but 'arso' –also to perfectly legal tax avoidance. Canadian direct investment in the top 10 tax havens in 2016 was $284 billion.

In 2014, in Bermuda, Canadian companies had $31 billion in assets, but only 35 employees. Has the Premier himself ever set up a perfectly legal company or trust in Manitoba or elsewhere in order to pay less than his fair share of taxes? Mr. Pallister: While I had the honour of serving Manitobans in the House of Commons, Madam Speaker, I was also given the honour of chairing the House of Commons finance committee and actually organized and led a fight against offshore tax havens, and I'll continue to believe that that is the right thing to do.

The biggest abusers of offshore tax havens are friends and donors to the Liberal Party of Canada who work in big banks, Madam Speaker. Climate Change Government Position Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, three out of four Manitobans, according to a recent poll, do not believe a word this Premier says when it comes to climate change. Makes us wonder what the remaining one out of four is smoking. But, more to the point, let's help the Premier understand why this might be the case. Who was it that cancelled the solar subsidy in Manitoba? Who cancelled the public transit funding arrangement?

Who killed the electric bus? Would the person responsible for these boneheaded decisions stand up and help the Premier understand why no one believes him? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would just urge some caution in using inflammatory language that has a tendency to take this whole Chamber off track.

And especially on a day like today where we are recognizing veterans and what veterans have done, I think they would all be better served and democracy would be better served if there was more respect shown in this Chamber for questions being posed and the tone of the questions and the responses that are given as well. So I'm asking all members to please show some respect here and stay away from the unparliamentary language because that is just totally offensive, I think, to this building. And I'm asking all members for their co-operation here, that we can have a better sense of decorum today.

4208 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustain able Development): On behalf of all the Manitobans that this member has just –used his inflammatory language, I would like to say shame on him and ask him to apologize to all the Manitobans that he continues to insult, whether it be in this Chamber or in his constituency. Madam Speaker, for 17 years this member could not find his voice to speak up for climate change as his government sat and did nothing. And then when he finally did have an opportunity to say something, what did he say?

He dared Ottawa to pull $67 million off the table in Manitoba, money that would go for retrofits, money that would go for displacement of propane up in Churchill, money that would go for transitioning to a low -carbon economy. I say shame on that member. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altemeyer: Don't worry, Madam Speaker; I am used to the minister going over the edge when presented with the facts. Let's just review a few things: she claimed that nothing happened for 17 years. I asked what's happened–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Altemeyer: –in the last two and a half. Who was it that built the first wind turbines in Manitoba? Who was it that built the second wind farm in Manitoba? Who was it that supported 10 different curbside composting programs? Who was it that brought in legislation requiring landfill gas to be captured? Who was it that gave Manitoba a national and international leader in geothermal energy? Who was it that expanded the Power Smart– [interjection] * (14:40) Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altemeyer: –program?

Will the person who wants to acknowledge who did all that good work in between the end of the Filmon dark era and the start of the Pallister government dark era, who did all that work? Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Ms. Squires: I'd also like to ask who was it that sat silent when the Auditor General said that there was absolutely no way to meaningful achieve carbon emission reductions in this province. Who was it that sat silent? That was that member. Who was it that sat silent as his go vernment did absolutely nothing for the environment for 17 years? It was that member.

A nd who was it who is now proposing a $350 US price on carbon that would be about a $4,000 hit to each Manitoba household per year? It is that member. He has absolutely no credibility when it comes to the environment. He's done absolutely nothing to help the community transition to a low -carbon environment. We will take no lessons from members opposite. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Mr. Altemeyer: Well, Madam Speaker, who was it that brought in Manitoba's first ethanol mandate? Who was it that brought in Manitoba's first biodiesel mandate?

Who was it that assigned a carbon price to coal and put all the revenue not into their own pockets, but into supporting biomass industries? Manitobans do not believe this Premier for a very good reason: he's killed the good work that was going on, denied the climate science and is blocking the opportunities for good jobs for people to sav e money and actually save our children's future. Madam Speaker, will the Premier stand up and please explain to the children of this province what he is doing on climate change and how that will possibly mean they have a future that we can be proud to hand to them? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Makes you long for the questions from the member for Fort Garry - Riverview (Mr. Allum), doesn't it, Madam Speaker? The member raises an issue –and I appreciate him raising it–of integrity, and, Madam Speaker, integrity is doing what you said you would do. According to the Auditor General of our province, well, the NDP's plans on climate change were done on the back of a napkin, out of desperation, and they aren't believable. According to the people of Manitoba, who remember when the NDP promised not to raise the PST and did, the NDP's not believable either.

And according to history, the historic rebellion, the Halloween rebellion, Madam Speaker, the NDP don't even believe each other, so I don't know why Manitobans would.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4209 Manitoba's Culture Days Success of Festival Mr. Kelly Bindle (Thompson): Madam Speaker, while Manitoba has a vibrant, multicultural community, we know that the culture sector was neglected for 17 years under the former NDP government. Can the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage please inform the House of the success of the Culture Days festival which was recently held throughout the province, including northern Manitoba? Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Thank you so much for that outstanding question to the member from Thompson.

Our government values and recognizes and supports Manitoba's vibrant cultural sector not only in Winnipeg but from every corner of our wonderful province, and I am thrilled to announce that once again Manitoba has distinguished itself as a leader as hosting Culture Days events here in Manitoba. And, Madam Speaker, for the sixth year in a row Winnipeg placed first across Canada as a community with the most activities during the ann ual Culture Day weekend. But Manitoba wasn't finished there yet, and I am proud to announce that Flin Flon beat out Toronto– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mrs.

Cox: And not only that, Madam Speaker, it also ranked first for a community w ith a populat ion under 50,000. Madam Speaker, Portage la Prairie ranked eighth in the country. A big congratulations– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Meth and Opioid Addiction Need for Treatment Centres Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Today in the gallery I'm joined by the students from Maples Met School and they have raised concerns regarding addiction and treatment centres, specifically regarding the meth and opioid crisis in our province.

Madam Speaker, to quote a student from up in the gallery: The Province of Manitoba is failing to provide the citizens of Manitoba with proper treatment centres to go to while they're struggling with addiction. How does the Premier (Mr. Pallister) plan on providing adequate treatment options for a ddicts while ensuring our front -line nurses are being protected while on the job? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): And welcome the students to the gallery. They're asking important questions and we have some updates for them.

It's incorrect to state that the government isn't actioning, because they should be aware that there have been increased beds now at Health Sciences Centre, as well as 12 new addiction treatment beds in Winnipeg, at AFM, for women's treatments. In addition to this, we're making it easier for those who struggle with addictions to get in the door and get to specialists and there is more to come and I look forward to augment ing my answer in the next set. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows on a supplementary question. Conservation Trust Boreal Forest Protection Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): The students of Maples Met feel that the world is experiencing an ecological crisis with the present rate of ecosystem and species loss, and Manitoba is no exception. Now, the students are aware that the Climate and Green Plan commits the Province to installing a $100-million conservation trust to protect nature. What they want to know is when will the trust be in place and when will it be used to speed up consultation processes that seek to conserve and protect Manitoba's boreal forests? Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): And I do want to thank these students for bringing, arguably, one of the best questions on the climate in this Chamber, and I really appreciate their thoughtful question. We certainly have got a lot of work to do in terms of creating a sustainable waters hed in the province of Manitoba.

That is why our government introduced Bill 7, The Sustainable Watershed Act, and in conjunction with that $102- million historic conservation trust we are going to get meaningful action, in terms of preserving our wetlands a nd preserving our boreal forests and our boreal wetlands for now and well into the future generations.

4210 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows on a final supplementary. Education System Review Project-Based Schools Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, students from Maples Met School have brought up concerns about budget cuts and how they might affect project -based schools like theirs. Currently there are only three project -based schools in the province and the students of Maples Met are nervous that when budget cuts happen that their school will be affected. What does the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) plan on doing to protect schools like Maples Met? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education and Training): I also want to welcome the stu dents here to the gallery and to the Assembly. Our government and our Premier have made education a priority, Madam Speaker. There is more than–$300 million more ever invested in the operation of schools, but it's not just the operation of schools. We know that good schools need to be built as well. That is why this government has committed to seven new schools around the province. We will continue to look at the needs of capital investment in schools.

The government has recognized that education provides the future for our province. We are making it a priority. The Premier's made it a priority, and we thank the students for raising it here today. Social and Affordable Housing Construction and Maintenance Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): The Families Minister has taken credit for hundreds of units that were built and were under construction even before they got into government. But, of course, they haven't built one single one of –on their own. She's cut maintenance by $78 million. That's over 62 per cent.

More and more housing are sitting empty because necessary upgrades aren't being done. I would have thought that the Conservative government would want to conserve the resources that they have, but instead they're kicking maintenance costs down the road for future generations. Well, they cost a lot more then than they do now. When will this minister commit to a single new housing unit and when will she reverse her 62 per cent cut to social housing? * (14:50) Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): Well, Madam Speaker, it must be recycle Thursday.

I believe the member has asked these questions before, and we will continue to answer the questions. The fact of the matter is that, since taking office, we have opened and/or supported more than 750 housing–affordable housing units in Manitoba. Madam Speaker, the fact of the matter is that we inherited a –more than $1 billion in deferred maintenance costs on Manitoba Housing units from the previous NDP government. So we're fixing up the mess. It doesn't happen overnight, but we're committed to doing that on behalf of Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question.

Mrs. Smith: I'll continue to ask these questions because this minister never answers any of my questions. Manitobans deserve to know. People living in poverty want better– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: People living in pove rty want better social services, not worse social services. The former Families minister cut 300 people off of Rent Assist and reduced Rent Assist for over 7,000 families. This government froze the 'miminum' wage for two years, failed to build any new housing, sold off social housing, cut the maintenance budget for social housing, cut transit.

They refused to do anything about the meth crisis. And they still have not produced a poverty reduction strategy. When is this minister going to get– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. [interjection] The member's time had expired. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam S peaker, I will keep answering the questions. I can't guarantee that the members opposite will accept these answers, and that's unfortunate, because they are positive answers for Manitobans when it comes to affordable housing in our province.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4211 The fact of t he matter is we are helping almost 3,000 more people in rent assistance in Manitoba than the NDP ever did. We will take no lessons from the members opposite. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Vimy Arena Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The residents of St. James and other areas of Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the provincial government to use the Vimy Arena site as a Manitoba Housing project.

(2) The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fletcher: –churches, community clubs and senior homes, and neither the provincial government nor the City of Winnipeg considered better suited locations in rural, semi -rural or industrial sites such as St. Boniface Industrial Park, the 20,000 acres at CentrePort or existing properties such as the Shriners Hospital or old Children's Hospital on Wellington Crescent.

(3) The provincial government is exempt from any zoning requirements that would have existed if the land was owned by the City of Winnipeg. This exemption bypasses community input and due diligence and ignores better uses for the land that would be consistent with a residential area.

(4) There are no standards that one would expect for a treatment centre. The Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living have stated that the Department of Health has no role to play in the land acquisition for this Manitoba Housing project for use as a drug addiction facility.

(5) The Manitoba Housing project initiated by the provincial government changes the fundamental nature of the community. Including parks and recreation uses, concerns of residents of St. James and others regarding public safety, property values and their way of life are not properly being addressed.

(6) The concerns of the residents of St. James are being ignored while obvious other loca tions in wealthier neighbourhoods, such as Tuxedo and River Heights, have not been considered for this Manitoba Housing project even though there are–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fletcher: –hundreds of acres of land available for this –for dev elopment at Kapyong Barracks or parks like Heubach Park that share the same zoning as the Vimy Arena site.

(7) The Manitoba Housing project and the operation of a drug treatment centre fall outside the statutory mandate of the Manitoba Housing renewal corporation.

(8) The provincial government does not have a co-ordinated plan for addiction treatment in Manitoba as it currently underfunds treatment centres which are running under capacity and potential.

(9) The community has been misled regarding the true intentions of Manitoba Housing as the land is being transferred for a 50 -bed facility even though the project is clearly outside of Manitoba Housing responsibility. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility; and

(2) To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure the preservation of public land along Sturgeon Creek for the purposes of park land and recreational activities for public use, including being an important part of the Sturgeon Creek Greenway Trail and the Sturgeon Creek ecosystem under the current designation of PR2 for 255 Hamilton Ave. located at the V imy Arena site, and to maintain the land to be continued to be designated for parks and recreation activity neighbourhood and communities.

This has been signed by Irene Derksen, Susan [phonetic] Derksen, Marge Barber [phonetic] and many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House.

4212 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 Gender Neutrality Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: Gender, sexuality and gender identity are protected characteristics of human rights both federally and provincially in Ma nitoba, Ontario, Alberta, British Columbia, and soon will be in Saskatchewan, Yukon and other places in Canada.

These governments have realized the need for this option on identification for the benefit of people who identify or who are identified by other s as intersex, third gender, transgender, genderqueer or non-binary. Identification and government documents should reflect gender neutrality to prevent issues that may arise from intentional bias on gender, and misgendering. The people described above f ace anxiety and discrimination in many aspects of day-to-day life, such as: interactions with health-care professionals; interactions with persons of authority; accessing government services; applying for employment.

Gender neutrality describes the idea t hat policies, language and the other social institutions should avoid distinguishing roles according to people's sex or gender in order to avoid dis - crimination arising from impressions that there are social roles for which one gender is more suited than other. Many newcomers to Canada may already have gender-neutral ID. Many indigenous persons are coming to identify as two -spirit as the effects of colonization are lessening, and this needs to be addressed in the process of reconciliation.

Being forced to accept an assigned gender affects children and newborns as they grow and become part of society. There are many psycho - logical benefits for transgender and non- binary people to be allowed to develop without the constraints put upon them by having their ge nder assigned based on purely physical attributes. The consideration to have a third option like X or Other on documents was on the previous provincial government's radar for several years, but the current provincial government has not taken steps to implement.

The City of Winnipeg is actively making its forms reflective of gender neutrality in respect to all persons who work for or come into contact with that government. * (15:00) The federal government now issues passports and is educating personnel ab out the correct language and references for non-binary persons. An Other option existed on enumeration forms for Elections Manitoba in 2016, was easily accepted, and provided a framework to provide accurate statistics of those who do not identify under the current binary system.

The foresight, along with training and making changes on required forms, acknowledges and accepts persons who fall outside the binary gender so that governments and people can more effectively interact with one another and reduce the anxieties of everyone involved.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to immediately begin implementation of plans to convert systems and forms to be more inclusive of two-spirit and other non- binary individuals, whether it be to include a third gender option or no requirement for gender on forms unless medically or statistically necessary, including health cards and birth certificates.

To urge the provincial government to immediately instruct the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation to offer a third gender option or no gender requirement for licences or any other form of provincial identification. To urge the provincial government to instruct Manitoba Health, Seniors and Active Living to offer the option of Manitoba Health cards with no gender in order to reduce the anxieties of transgender and non-binary persons accessing the health -care system as a first step. To consider revisiting legislation that may need updating to meet the needs of its citizens in this regard.

Signed by Hayden Schneider, Zoë Bishop, Rob Loewen and many others. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Further petitions?

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4213 GRIEVANCES Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): I rise in the House today with a grievance about the Seniors' School Tax Rebate, along with other grievances within the grievance if time allowed. Since 2011, I have been speaking up on the Seniors' School Tax Rebate, and today I speak agai n because this government will not keep the promise to Manitoba seniors. I championed the Seniors' School Tax Rebate in 2015, ensuring a much needed maximum rebate of $2,300 annually would go to protecting our low - and mid -income seniors in Manitoba.

During the election in 2016, the PC government promised to leave the full Seniors' School Tax Rebate in place. But after the election, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) clawed the seniors' rebate back to a mere $470 annually, and that small amount is only available to seniors making $40,000 per year. Above $40,000, it decreases as income increases. At $63,500 family income, it becomes zero. Less than $40,000, there is also clawback. This is not helping Manitoba seniors at all.

I have spoken with many senior constit uents after the election in 2007 who need more to be able to afford to stay in their family home or to keep up their social, mental and physical wellness activities, which actually reduces their use of the provincial health - care system. I was able to conv ince the premier, Greg Selinger, to make the election promise in the 2011 election the seniors –to the seniors for the school tax rebate. After some discussions in the caucus, the first rebate was started with $235 and then was increased to $470. For the year 2016, it was to be up to $2,300.

The PC Party also promised in the 2016 election that if they have government they will also do the same. But once they got in power, they did not keep the promise. The promised tax rebate must be given to Manitoba seniors. Statistics Canada said food prices rose 4 per cent in 2016, with fruit and vegetable prices rising 18 per cent. Yet the Premier (Mr. Pallister) does not think our senior population needs an additional tax rebate. The Premier has taken healthy food o ut of our seniors' fridges. The cost of electricity has gone up. The cost of heat has gone up. Even the cost of licensing pets has gone up.

Yet this government is not helping our seniors who have these rising costs and reduced incomes. By not giving the promised annual rebate, the Premier is reducing the ability of Manitoba's seniors to stay functioning in the community economy. When will the Premier recognize that seniors in our province need a greater rebate to survive in this economy? Seniors are p art of our local economy; they need a higher tax rebate to have money to stay in their homes and make purchases. They need the higher tax rebate to stay in active wellness programming.

A healthy, active seniors community reduces health -care system usage and also more seniors to take

part in social and charitable events, participating at community clubs and being available as role models to our youth. Instead, the Premier insists on taking money out of the pockets of Manitoba's seniors, reducing their abili ty to have healthy aging. By not giving the promised rebate, the Premier is creating stress for seniors, and we all know stress causes health issues. To add to this stress, the way the form and rebate are given has also changed for the worse. Senior homeowners used to be able to fill out the rebate form and get direct payment, but now it is part of the complicated income tax form fund.

Previously, they used to fill the form and get the direct cheque, with which they were able to budget that fund. Now the hidden rebate is not that much appearing. Why does this government keep making things harder and harder for our aging population? It is time this government helps our senior population. This government must keep the promise and ensure a maximum rebate of $2,300 annually will go to our low- and middle-income seniors in Manitoba. On November 6th, I brought forward a resolution to help the immigrant seniors.

The resolution was to ask the federal government to remove the Labour Market Impact Assessment, which is called LMIA, and a relaxation in income requirement to bring in the foreigner live -in care workers to take care of seniors. Still, training and experience was supposed to be the same for foreign live-in care workers –what is for the Canadian resident workers. I was hoping that it will be passed unanimously, but the government MLAs talked it out. They made the excuse that we should not rush in this matter. I don't think that is a valid argument.

If we had passed the resolution, then the federal government was–further to think about it. This was

4214 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 simply an excuse. They don't want to understand the immigrant seniors' situation. They ignore the fact that immigrant seniors have cultural and language barriers and get isolated. They need someone whom they can trust and have emotional attachment. Also, Madam Speaker, seniors, when they go to the parks, they–there's not washrooms and they have to run back to their houses, and they cannot enjoy, fully, our parks. And I think this government should invest money in parks, too, but they are not doing it.

And they are not even participating to–participating with the City to come up with that plan. Also, Madam Speaker, some seniors feel disappointed, because they were [inaudible] about in their young age, when they left, especially from India, when they left that country ; now they are seniors. There was a massacre in New Delhi. At th at time, 800 Sikhs were killed; they were raped and they were put on fire and put a tire around them, and within four days –1984, since October 31st to–until November 3rd, 8,000 people were just massacred.

And at that time I noticed even our politicians did not say a single word about it. Sometimes I wonder . When something happens in Europe, and everybody making statements ; when something happens in Third Wor ld countries , they don’t care –appears we don’t care. * (15:10) So we must have to keep in mind that minority lives are important. That senior –that’s why seniors so much just–who are living over here who are Sikh and who were young at that time, they have not got any justice. And the government was involved. They arranged that massacre.

And Indira Gandhi’s son, after her assassination, he said when big tree falls and–small trees underneath him die . So I think up to now nobody was brought to–up to justice. So those seniors also suggest, Madam Speaker, those seniors also suggest we have to listen to the m. There was –other day there was a kind of event in their memory, but even–I did not see anybody from the government side. Well, we have to be a little bit more sensitive about those issues. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Any further grievances?

ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS OPPOSITION DAY MOTION Madam Speaker: The House will now consider the opposition day motion of the honourable member for Minto. I will now recognize the honourable member for Minto. Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): I move, seconded by the member for St. John’s (Ms.

Fontaine), that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba condemn the federal government for continuing to fight veterans groups in court, for repeatedly underspending the Veterans Affairs budget, and for its refusal to properly fund pensions for veterans, and to call on the provincial government to raise the issue of support for veterans at every opportunity with the federal government. Motion presented. Mr.

Swan: Madam Speaker, as we all know this is Veterans’ Week, and after the House rises sometime late tonight or early tomorrow morning we’ll all head back to our communities and we’ll participate in events leading up to and including Remembrance Day services, and we’ll be in schools and community halls and armories, in legions, and outside by cenotaphs and memorials. And this year, as we’ve debated already this afternoon, those services take on special meaning as we commemorate 100 years since the end of the First World War.

They’ll be a lot of sp eeches, lot of thoughts, lot of prayers, and a recognition of the sacrifices made by those who have served and continue to serve our country. And, indeed, we all hope that our country will all but shut down for two minutes of silence at 11 a.m. on the 11th. Then after the ceremonies on the 11th , well, they’ll sweep away the poppies and put away the wreaths and pace of life will return to normal for most Canadians–for most Canadians.

This motion is intended to send a message to our federal government that veterans aren’t a group that we can just bring out and recognize one day a year or one week a year and then ignore. This motion is intended to send a message that the federal government needs to do much more to meet its

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4215 obligations, its covenant if you will, to the women and men who’ve served our country and our military. The truth is that our federal government has not treated those who have served fairly. I’ll detail it shortly, but I bring forward this motion this afternoon, this Veterans’ Week, in t he hope that we can send a unified message to the federal government on behalf of Manitoba’s veterans. Now, we know there’s no survivors of the First World War now.

It’s been 73 years since the end of the Second World War, meaning that veterans of that war are now, at the youngest, in their 90s. But, Madam Speaker, what about other missions: The Korean conflict; peacekeeping missions; Bosnia; Afghanistan; Yugoslavia; people who’ve served in those actions walk among us. Those who have served in war time but also in various missions, even in our own country, walk among us. Some we know as neighbours. Some we are–we know as family. Some we know as friends. We don’t even know who they are, whether it’s at the community club, or the supermarket, or wherever they may be.

What we do know is that those who serve our country and those who aid our country are counting on our country to support them, and there’s three issues in particular. The first is that the federal government continues to fight veterans' groups in court. Secondly, they've repeatedly underspent the Veterans Affairs budget. And third, they've refused to properly fund pensions for veterans. First of all, Madam Speaker, I want to talk about fighting veteran groups in court. Over the past two ye ars, we know the federal government has spent more than $38 million on legal proceedings against Canadian veterans.

The majority of this spending has gone towards arguing disputes over veterans' benefits and pensions, money which could have gone towards veterans' lifetime benefits. And what I think many Canadians find offensive is that during the 2015 election campaign, Justin Trudeau promised to do a better job of caring for our veterans, and he promised to ensure that no veteran has to fight the governm ent for the support and compensation they have earned. But, Madam Speaker, his government's actions have betrayed his promise on the campaign trail.

In a town hall not that long ago, in response to a soldier who lost his leg in Afghanistan, the Prime Minister was saying something very different. And when he was asked the question about this issue, the Prime Minister said: Why are we still fighting against certain veterans' groups in court? Because they're asking for more than we are able to give right now. What an answer to a veteran who served our country.

We know that in the case of Scott v. the Attorney General of Canada, known as the Equitas case, the current government drew out a court battle with disabled veterans who launched a class action challenge against the former government's overhaul of the compensation program for soldiers injured in the line of duty. And the overhaul replaced lifelong disability pension with a lump -sum payment and career training, which veterans say is worth less than the pension system previously in place.

And the veterans involved in the case argued that the government has an obligation to care for Canada's wounded soldiers and that obligation was breached. And, unfortunately, rather than seeking to resolve the issue wi thout costly and painful court proceedings, the federal government refused to negotiate. And it's indeed sad, Madam Speaker, the government spent tax dollars on a legal battle with veterans who were wounded by defending this country. The Supreme Court of Canada recently ruled on the Equitas case, refusing to grant leave for an appeal of the decision of the British Columbia Court of Appeal.

That leaves in place a court decision which states the government does not have a legal duty of care to those who have served. But there's a legislative gap which the federal government needs to correct, and there is a huge moral gap that we think this resolution will call on the federal government to address. Canadians are upset their federal government has drawn out a legal battle with disabled veterans. In order to honour those who serve, the government should always do everything in their power to resolve issues outside of costly courtrooms. It is the right thing to do.

We have a moral obligation to do that for people who served our country. The second issue is underspending the Veterans Affairs budget. Veterans expect, and they deserve, that money will be spent on supports that help them.

4216 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 Now, there've been some recent developments in the House of Commons on Tuesda y. On Monday, there was a New Democratic opposition motion to end the practice of leaving money unspent at Veterans Affairs Canada and make sure that money is carried forward to the next years–was unanimously approved. First the Conservatives, the official opposition, said they would support that motion, and then the Liberal government said they would support that motion.

The NDP motion says the government should automatically carry forward all annual lapsed spending of the department of Veterans Affairs to the next fiscal year for the sole purpose of improving services for Canadian veterans. Mr. Doyle Piwniuk, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair As Global News reported earlier this fall, the Liberal government has allowed more than $372 million meant to help veterans and their families go unspent since taking office in November 2015, and this despite promises from Mr.

Trude au, who in August 2015 said that leaving money meant for veterans unspent was wrong and that a government led by him would fix it. Instead, in 2016, the federal government underspent Veterans Affairs by $80.9 million; in 2017, by $143 million; and in 2018, they're on pace to underspend this by $148.6 million. I can point out that the Conservative Party has passed a resolution acknowledging that this is wrong and that they will not continue to do that if they are returned to power. The New Democrats hav e been clear on that.

We are hoping that the passage of this resolution–a non-binding resolution, but a resolution nonetheless–will encourage the government to make the changes they need to make. * (15:20) The vote was unanimous. It was 301 to zero in the House of Commons, but we want to make sure that we speak on behalf of veterans here in Manitoba, and frankly across the country, to make sure that the government acts on that motion. The third concern is the refusal to properly fund veterans' pensions.

While members of the Canadian Forces are injured while serving, Veterans Affairs is obligated–and I think we'd all agree –obligated to provide non- taxable compensation for pain and suffering and taxable compensation for lost income. The way this was done was changed when the previous Liberal government introduced the New Veterans Charter in 2005, taking away lifelong pensions for veterans and instead providing a one-time lump sum. The lump sum gives no compensation to family members and is equal to what wa s paid out to veterans in approximately seven years under the pre-2006 lifelong pension.

The point being that an injured veteran who lived on for more than seven years was actually losing under the new plan. The current Liberal government promised to restore lifelong pensions for injured veterans, and although the government introduced what they called the Pension for Life program, they have not truly delivered on this promise. Veterans will have to wait until April 2019 to choose between the existing lump sum or a new lifelong pension that will now pay less than one half of what veterans who served before 2006 would be entitled to.

Families of injured soldiers will be shut out from compensation, and the average monthly payments will only be about $200 compared to the pre -2006 average of $680 per month. So this program is actually perpetuating an unequal system of benefits. Some veterans have called this not just a two -tier but a three -tier system of compensation for veterans who have been injured in service of our country. So we know as well that 270,000 veterans were shortchanged for over eight years due to an accounting error worth approximately $165 million, a mistake brought to light by the federal Veterans Ombudsman.

The error continued unchecke d between 2002 and 2010 when someone in Veterans Affairs noticed it. They changed that but didn't tell anybody, meaning that veterans, many of whom have now passed on, have been left without the benefits to which they were entitled. Now, the only criticis m someone might have is the word condemn might be too strong. I hope by passing this unanimously this afternoon, we can get the federal government's attention. But it is very upsetting that veterans would be attacked and ignored by their own federal govern ment, by the country that they signed up to serve and to protect.

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4217 For veterans, it is a painful betrayal by their own country, and I hope we can speak with one voice this afternoon and make it clear to our veterans that here in Manitoba, our respect for their service is not limited to one day or one week in each year but throughout the year. Let us as legislators stand together to call attention to this and ensure that our veterans are treated fairly. Thank you– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member' s time is up. Mr. Jon Reyes (St. Norbert ): As the member for Minto (Mr.

Swan) pointed out, more than 270,000 ex-soldiers were shortchanged by Veterans Affairs for over eight years because of an accounting error worth at least $165 million. The mistake was uncovered by the Veterans Ombudsman's office, which has worked with the federal department for over a year to get it to confirm the mistake and make amends. I remember when I thought about joining the forces. It was in high school. There was actually a recruiting booth at Sisler High School. Private Purdy, or Corporal Purdy, at the time was the one who was recruiting for having more members at the 735 com regiment.

So I –for facts, I actually served my career at Minto armouries, actually, which is loc ated at the constituency of the member of Minto. And I had a very, very enjoyable career as a reservist. I went to Germany –Lahr, Germany –in 1993, served there for base closure, just to close the base down. And after that, you know–they call it a callout, but that assignment–I would come back to Winnipeg. And everyone's going to know –I actually originally wanted to join the air force, but at the time, the air force trade was closed. They had a forces reduction program.

And so it was either join the infantry or any trade in the navy. So I chose the navy. And today, here, we have a recently retired Captain Wright Erubi from the Royal Canadian Air Force. Thank you for your service. My good friend and my –you're both my brothers, but my long -lost brother Jon Hawtin. We actually served at boot camp together, and I know last year you had all heard my private member's statement about Christian Duchesne. We both knew Christian Duchesne , we called, I guess you guys had called him Cheesy [phonetic] in your artillery days, but we lost him back in 2007, I believe–2007 or 2008.

When I started my career with the navy and I was an ordinary seaman, private, there was a pay freeze; there was an incentive pay freeze and that really, really hurt young sailors, soldiers, military families, and it was under a Liberal government, a federal Liberal government. And I remember that. I would talk to my MP about why this happened because, you know, we’re serving our country, yet we’re not getting paid enough. And we w ere struggling. We were trying to pay our bills, pay our loans, and it was tough, it was really tough.

You know, like, you wanted to have that sense of pride, to serve your country, but at the time your country is not taking care of you. And, in this case in terms of veterans and my friends up top there, we should be taking care of them. I was given this appointment, the Special Envoy for Military Affairs for the Province of Manitoba, which was a position created by the previous government.

And, since I’ ve been in this position, every time I am at an event or at a ceremony, when I meet with veterans or with active personnel who are still serving, the men and women, I’m always getting them for feedback because that’s our job as government, we listen. And I, with my role, I would listen to the troops whether I’m out in Shilo, whether I’m out at 17 Wing, whether I’m out at Southport, any legion that I visited in Manitoba, I’m always getting their feedback. And one of the challenges has always been interprovincial moves, interprovincial moves with our men and women in uniform.

And I still get feedback from veterans because they care; they care about the people that are still serving. So this past summer I actually went to one of the first meetings called Se amless Canada at the staff college in Toronto to share our ideas and information from other military representatives from each province, and there were also military spouses there, veterans, and they’re all representatives from each province. And one of the wives made a comment, why is it easier for us to be hosted to the United Kingdom versus another province in our country. And it baffled them.

It baffled me because I’ve experienced this. You know, you’re going from province to province, but things don’t jive. Military spouse, you lose that double income, professional designations,

4218 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 child care, health care, driver’s licences. I mean, our neighbours to the south, the United States, they have a national driver's licence. Why don’t we? But there’s a lot of things that have to be analyzed and talk with all our jurisdictions here nationally. And the thing is, you know, we have a federal government that, in my opinion, is not listening, is not listening to our veterans, is not listening to our military, and they’ve found that they’ve shortchanged more than 270,000 veterans on pensions and disability payments.

Now imagine that you’re, you know, 80, 90 years old, or you’ve had a loved one already pass away. Now there’s going to be a lot of legal ramifications, I suspect with this, and I know that the current federal government has promised that they’ll be getting these, the payments in 2020, but can that really be done? * (15:30) I mean, I always had a sour taste in my mouth, and you couldn’t really say anything when you’re wearing the uniform. But we technically still wear the uniform and we want to be taken care of because we take care of the people in our country, and we have that sense of pride.

But, when you have a government, a federal government that’s not taking care of you, where is that pride? Where is that desire to serve? And being an elected official now, I'm at the government table. I'm here serving the people of Manitoba. I'm here taking care of Manitoba's military community. I'm here to listen b ecause I want to take care of them, and it disappoints me that our federal government is not taking care, in my opinion, of our military personnel and our veterans.

I'm looking forward to going to Ottawa in December for Seamless Canada 2 to bring some ideas so we can make lives easier for people that are transitioning from province to province. We definitely want to do that in Manitoba. The other thing I want to also mention is that there are going to be many Remembrance Day services throughout the provi nce, the Convention Centre being the major one. I'll be at HMCS Chippewa and there'll also be a local one in St. Norbert, St. James, Valour Road, I believe, where the member for Minto (Mr. Swan) coincides.

But our job as elected officials, provincially or federally, is to listen: listen to the veterans; listen to the men and women in uniform; listen to their stories. Because if we don't listen, we're not taking care of the people who have, you know, made sure that we have freedom, that we have the lives t hat we can have in our country; because I have travelled the world, and you know what? One thing that I have to say is, you know, you don't take that for granted when you're in other countries, and when I come back home here in Canada, in Manitoba, I am glad to be home. We got to take care of home.

We got to take care of veterans. We got to take care of them, our men and women in uniform. So, right? Jon? Brothers, thank you again for your service. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Any other speakers? Hon. Colleen Mayer (Minister of Crown Services): I'm honoured to rise today to speak to the opposition day motion, and when I read the words written it's truly about respect: respect for those who fought for our freedoms and our rights; respect for those in the past who gave the ultimate sacrifice. It's about respect for those men and women today who serve in our military.

It's respect for their families, their families who sacrifice, who are left here when they're off doing the work that they need to do. You know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, today is Aboriginal Veterans Day. As you've heard me speak in the Chamber from before, my grandfather was Metis; that includes him. He went and served our country so that I today can stand here and represent the people of Manitoba. I want to recognize –I can't look at her because she's going to cry. My mom is in the Chamber here today. [interjection] Right here.

My mom, Connie Mayer, came today because she wanted to hear what I had to say, how the words that I was going to speak would honour my grandfather. And I think today when I went out into St. Vital, for a brief moment I went to Glenlawn Collegiate to participate in their service for veterans, and I was very touched at the program that they had presented, the students t hat were there, what they –the message that was being delivered to them, the respect that they gave to not only indigenous veterans, but to women in combat.

They–there were videos and there were words in those programs that meant so much to so many people. It's those stories that I think that we sometimes forget to hear. I think it's stories and memories that people hear it, sometimes; sometimes they don't

November 8, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4219 always think of it on a day -to-day basis. It's something that we should think of, not only at this time of year, but it's something we should think of every day because living in this province is something that, with the rights and freedoms we have, is something that we should remember. Now, I spoke about my grandfather being a veteran and about respect and what this motion encompasses. My grandfather, Joseph Elie Barron, only had a–about a grade 6 education.

He went over to serve, he married my grandmother, Myrtle Barron, in the summer of 1941 and just before he was enlisted, and over he went and he left his young bride and she was pregnant with my aunt, Auntie Elaine. There weren't many times that my grandfather shared–or what I thought –he passed away w hen I was 12–what I thought were stories about that time. But there were some things that I reflect on now and I think were his way of teaching me and–to remember. And how he shared of his experiences. We would march up and down the gravel road, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Left, left, left, right, left.

I would follow his lead as he would charge those commands to me. He would never let me throw out burnt toast because they were thankful to have burnt toast in those trenches. That was sometimes all that they could get. He would tell me I love you big, big, high as the sky, because I think he knew how much it meant to be away from family, and you never –you don't want to regret that you didn't say those words to your family. And he taught me to be proud of who I am.

So today I'm going to take a moment, with the time I have, to read a couple of the letters that he sent to my grandmother, and I table copies because I am going to read them directly. February 5th, 1943. My dear wife, well, darling, here I am again. I'm not too bad. How are you and Elaine? I hope you are all fine over there. Not much happening here, but I'll do the best I can to write what I have. Did Mom and Dad and everyone at home get my letters? I got all of your letters in one day. I was glad that da y all day long. All the boys here said I have a good wife to write all those letters to me.

And darling, you are a good wife. You are all one could wish for. I only wish that I was there with you and Elaine. That's all I want. Say goodbye –or, say hello to everyone for me and say goodbye to Elaine. All my love, yours only, Elie. February 8th, 1943. Dear Myrtle, well, how are you, Elaine and all the family at home? I hope you're all fine. I'm in the war. I got all your letters. I –and did you get all of the l etters? I wrote 50 this month, so you must have gotten some of them. Well, darling, there's not much to write again today, but I want you to know how much I'm getting along.

Don't ever forget to write your letters; they make me feel better. I hope your m om is getting along and I hope that she's better. I'll try to write again, so bye -bye for now. Say hi to Elaine, and darling, I'll never leave you again for I miss you too much. All my love to you and Elaine. Kisses from yours and forever, Elie. February 4th, 1944. Dear Myrtle, well, how are you and Elaine? I hope fine. I'm in the hospital again but it won't be for that long. You are going to–they are going to look after me and I am not okay. We will–they will keep me –if I'm not okay, they will keep me lon ger.

Did you get my letters? I wrote to you when I was in leave and when I went to Glasgow. I had a good leave. I had seen all my friends there and all I did was dance. I also got my picture taken. I send it. Well, darling, I have to close and say good night for now. All my love, kisses to you and Elaine, from yours, Elie. Dear Myrtle, well, here I am somewhere in France and I'm fine. I hope you're fine too. How's my girl getting along? Jeez, I wish I could see her now. I guess she's getting to be a big gi rl. Well, darling, there's not much more to write about, but everything is okay and I'm with a good lot of boys.

I didn't see Cecile yet –and Cecile was my grandmother's brother. I guess I'll see him one of these days. Hey, dear, would you send me a writi ng pen if you can and send my mail to this address? So, here, with all my love to you and Elaine. Give my regards to all at home and tell Bertie –which was his sister–that I'm fine. Love, Elie. * (15:40) And lastly: Well, darling, here I am again and I'm f eeling fine. How are you and Elaine? I hope you're fine. Geez, darling, I'm glad I got my pen. I got it today, and it's a good one. I got two parcels from you and a lot of letters, so I am happy now.

I didn't send my letters yet, but I'll be coming home soon. I'm not sure when, but about going home, just wanted to let you know I'll write when I know. I don't hear from mom much, and I'll be glad when I get home so you and I can look after Elaine.

4220 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 8, 2018 Geez, I wish this old war was over so all the boys and I can come back home again. Dear, tell Auntie to write me, will you? I wrote her, and she never wrote back. I wrote Dad too, and he never wrote me, so I don't know what's wrong, but maybe I'll be getting some of those letters one of these days. Well, darlin g, I'll say cheerio for now. All my love to you and Elaine, from all those loved ones. Every letter is signed with multiple X's, and it's very clear, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the love he had for my grandmother and his longing to be home, home with his family, for all the boys to be home. How much he missed his family was evident, and I think that that is, if nothing else, why we deserve to pay our respects today and every day to the veterans, the men and women who serve our country, the ones who stand up and pay the ultimate sacrifice. For my grandfather, I stand here today and I say thank you. Thank you for all you've given me; thank you for all you've given my mom; thank you for bringing us the best life that we've had in Canada. Thank you. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Is there any further speakers? Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): It's a pleasure to speak to this and to talk about the importance of supporting veterans. It's important to notice that, when it comes to GDP, military spending is half what it was in the 1970s. We spend far less than we once would–once did, and Canada no longer has a blue-water navy. In–I attended a really wonderful Remembrance Day service at Nelson McIntyre school in St. Boniface today.

It was entirely set up by grade 11 students who wanted to ask why is it that young people today are becoming disconnected from Remembrance Day, and one of the things that surprised me was–because my own uncle and my aunt were involved in the Second World War, and my grandfather was in the First World War –that these were students whose great -grandparents and sometimes gre at-great-grandparents were –had–were in the Second World War. So, clearly, there's been a generational gap, but also because the wars we tend to talk about are the older wars.

We talk about the First World War, which ended 100 years ago this week. We talk about the Second World War, which, again, was 60 years ago. We talk a little bit about Korea, but there have been conflicts since, and one of the things is they haven't been mass conflicts in the same sort of way, and people aren't drafted the way they used to be. But there are other changes as well. So we have a volunteer army where a smaller –or a small –fairly small group of people are asked to take incredible risks and personal s

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-88b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 88b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c3174ee0661a82cf730d4dc40ce166a9ebfa2be9

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).