. Volume XL Friday . ~ II Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard} Speaker: Honourable P.J. McNicholas Number 63 24 June 1988

.1e House met at 10:00 a.m. M R . ~3 PEAKE R ( M c: N i c h o 1 r.t s ) : 0 r d e r· , p J e a s e ! Statements by Ministers MR. SlMMS: Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: The hon . the President of the Council.. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: As President of Tr·easur·y Boar·d and as Minister responsible for the Status of Wo111en, and, perhaps e uen more impor·lantJ y, on behalf of l: h i s 9 o IH:~ r n mE! n L , I a rn u e r· y p r· o 1 1 d and de]jgh1.ed to announce to this h1)n. liOIISI::~ !:hr.~. I: a L~::Hltai: i.IJe agr·eemerd . on pay equity was r'er.\ c ~H:~cl i·.h "i. s morni_ ng . SOME HON.

MEMHFRS: Hear, hE:~iH'! MR. SIMMS: The agreement was reached this morntng involving public sector employees and unions, days of including this week concluded After a total of seven intensive negotiations, four days and nights alone, an agreement was at 6:45 this morning.

I h a v e per· s on a 11 y _. j Li s t co 10 e f r· om the bargaining table, a short wh He ago, where I lflet w i t:h the employer and union r· t~ p r e s e n t a t i. 'J e s , s i. n c t~ /1. : 3 0 a . m . onward, and I am pleased to i n d i c a t. e to h o n . rn ern b e r· s t h a 1: 1.: h J. s ~ s thE:~ first Pr·ov:i nee-wide public s <-:! c +-.or· pay e q 1 Li. 1: y d g r c-:l E:~ nH:' n t L 3 551 June 24, 1988 Uol XI.. negotiated in Canada . SOr-1E liON. MEMB FRS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: Similar agreements across Canada, Mr.

Speaker, haue all been legislated, but we preferred to take the negotiated route and the consultative approach and I think it has been very successful for all parties. Unions i.nvolved in the agreement include the Association of Allied Health Proft-:lssionals, the Canadian Union of Public · Employees, the Internationdl Brotherhood of Electrjcal Workers, the Nel.llrounrllr.\ncl and Labr·ador Nur·ses Union, and the Newfoundland n s so d . r.ll-. i. on o F Pub l i c Em p 1 o y e e s .

Employer groups included the N<~t.~JFoundl.."nd Hospib3.l and Nur·s'i.ng Home Association, Newfoundland II y d r· o a n d T r· ~=~ a s Itt' y R o cl r d . ( m i ':I h t l'l d d , r·'lr' . !) p e a k e r , t o conclude such an agreement on such a single cornpl.,~x i.ssut-:l with Five unions at the same time, I believe is also worthy of note and is very significant as well. . Mr.

Speaker, details of this historic agreement, which wiJl bring equal pay for work of equal value, particularly to the women of the Provincial Public Service will be released in due course, as soon as the unions involved, in particular, have a chance to apprise their teams of the details. I want to take this o p port unity , i.f T rnr.ty, Mr. Sped.ker, to personally thank all of those involved i.n the negotiations, including union and management r· ~;;~ p r· e s c-:l n 1: .~ i: i. 'Jt1 s , as l.lle 1.1 as officials from the Department of I . ;~ b o 11 r· , who LIH:H' e

I) E:~ r y , u e r y No. 63 R3551

helpful. This, Mr·. Speaker, is a very hjstoric day for Newfoundland, it is a ver·y historic day for tJJornen in the public service, and indeed for all the peopl.<,~ of Newfoundland and L.abr·ador, in my view. This gover·nmenl: i.s ver·y, very pr·oucl of be:i.ng responsjble for jntroducing s u c h ''~ n i. m p o r· t. i:'ll1 t a n d s :i. g n :i. r i. c cl n 1:: social policy jnJtiative as equal pay for· lJ.JtH'k of eqtJt'll IJal.ue . Thr'l.nk you, Mr-. ~)pt~i:\kE!r' . SOM[ 1101\J. MEMBFRS : Hear, l1ear·! MR. TUI.K : Mr . Speaker. MR . SPfAKF.R: The hon. the HH:'rrtber for Fogo . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me say to the Pre s i d e n t of T r·e.~ as u r· y Boar· d that jf indee~ the position of the gover·nment .i.s as the m:lnis ter says in this statement, and if indeed women .in the:~ Public Ser1J i.ce lAJi.ll r·ecedve equal pay for work of t:'qual. vaJ.ue, then we 1.r.1elcome the announcement and we on this side ondtn·se l:h<-:! ayr~~emenl:. SOMF. liON. MEMBFRS: H e i:i r • II ear· ! MR.

TULK: We also Jook forwa~d to the day, I say l:o l:he uri.ni.sh,H', ·l.o~Jhen womC:Hl in the private sector of our economy, dS IAJel.l as ·i.n i.he p11bl.ic sector· or our economy, w111 receive equal pay for work of equal Vcllue as well.

I would throw in a word of caution L3552 June 24-, 1988 Vol XL here, and that is that we will watch the details as they unfold Because I can clearly recal l sitting in this legislature some year·s i~go' ·~nd watchi.ng the then Minister of Labour announce that there was going to be consultation with the public service sector in t h i. s P r· o IJ i. n ce:~ o n B i. 1 1 5 9 • a n d immediately after the election was OlH:H' 1.1.1e s <:ll.~oJ wha l: happened: The screws went down on NAPE and the oi:bc:H' public: omployE:H:'S in this Province. So we will watch the d t~ 1.: .:'1 · i. l. s c: l o s E:~ l y .

T t s e ~?. rn s , M r . Speaker·, that indeE:~d fraser Mar·cl­ i.Hld l:h(~ pe:~ople 1~1ho Clre negot.iat :ing for the Public Service in this Pt'OlJ'i .nc:e taught: tht?. gover·nment a lesson in a strike that they held a couple of year·s ago. We welcome the announcement and we look Forward to Following the details. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear·! M R . S P E A K E: R : The h o n . t he me rn be r· f o r S t . J o h n 1 ~ East. MR. LONG: Mr. Speaker, l.o~Je IJJould llke tc congratulate the government anc t h e M "i n ·i. s i: e r R e s p o n s 'i. b J. e f o r Treasury Boar·d in particular.

J d TO S II t' ~~ h I~ h a S p II t ('I 1 0 t () f persona] 1 energy and cornmi tmeni "i. n t o t h i. ~> p t' o c E:1 s s o IJ C:H' t h e l. a s t couple of months . I Wt:~ l..c.Jot11c:l, ·or coursE:~. also like t< congratulate the effort of thE bar·ga·i.noi.ng t.e:~nms '•Jho r'Hpresentel the five unions involved. undersLHnd th.~l: t·.he:~ pr·ocess thai they experienced in comin< t o g e i: h e:~ r' , r'l s F i. v e P u b 1 i. c S e c t o 1 bargaining teams was quitE unprecedented :i.n thei.r owr experience, and they are certainl No . 6 3 R3S52

.:!serving of full cred]t in br·.i.nyi.ng i:ogel:ht1r a co1nmorl position ft·om their· :,jde. ~30Mf. l-ION. Mf.MAf.RS : Heetr, hear! MR.

LONG: nut : I 1.uould say to the minister, t.hough, thai:, gi.ven t:he approach that lhe government has taken to negotiate thi.s at the bargctining table, there still rE:1mains the quesl:i.on - in fact l::he question is begged, I think -· of a legislative approach to this issue being in the statutes, that wi 1 1 guarantee, whatever process or difficulties might occur at the bargaining table, that the principle is enshrined in law in this Province that women cctnnot. be discri.minated against in pay scales in the workforct1.

And so we would like to giue nob tE:! to thE:! minister lodi:iy that i n tfw r:\ b s ~~ n c e () f r"\ n y l. e g J. s 1 r'l 1.: i. 0 n specJficaJJy addressing this J s s 111::1 , b E:1 for' (,1 i: h J. s H o u s l'' c: 1 o s E:1 s I'H:1 w·.i 11 be J ooki ng ver·y close] y at oHIH~ndnH,1ni.s l.o Lht' lillffio:Hl Ri.ghl:s Code, which hi:ive been introduced, tH :1Cnuse Uwr·e i.s a

section in there on E:1qual pi:iy. We are not s u r e 1-: h c:d~. l: hat par I: t c ul. r"\ r sec l: i. on is enough, artd we also have a question about the applicability of the Human Rights Code as a statute on its own ter·ms, having primacy over other laws in the Pr·ovince. But in any case, Mr. Speaker, we would say t.hat this · is an h .is tot· i. c day.

We think the government has done a good job i.n the last number· of months in moving quickly towar·ds a resolution, bu !: WE~ lliOUld say lo the Minister responsible for· the St . a t:u s oF Women 1-. ha. t Hli.s issue is not the only standard by I.Uh j C h 1..110111{:1 n :in l.:h "i.s Pro lJ .i. n c e wo 11l. d L3'>53 June 24, 1986 Vo1 XL judge the record of the g o lJf:H' nrn l:Hl 1: . 0 n HH:1 i s s u c,1 s of ddJd car ·e and batter-ed women's I r·an~d .l:·i.on ser ·IJ'i !~C ,'S, Lher·e:1 i.s rnuch y~:.11-. i:o be done. MR. SIMMS: Mr· . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Counci.l. MR.

SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, equally as significant. this statement important is and On behalf of the Premjer I am pleased to announce today that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro hr.ls awarded a contract valued at approximately $1 mi 11 ion for enhancement of the water handling capability of the Bay d 1 Espoir h y d r o e l e c I: t' i c g e n H r <:\ ! ... .i. n g s y s t ern . This contract, Mr. Speaker, is i:li)Jo:oH'de:1cl to i:'l local conl. :ract :or 1-r·om the Province of Newfoundland and I. c"\ b r· iHI () r· I R u s s e l. l. p "i. k 1:1

I) f Pasadena, who was the lowest b ·i.dd~:H' ·i.il .~ r'l:1CE:1ni: call for tenders. Acres Limited from St. John's J.$ the project manager . nw contr·ctcl: invol.tJes raising the dykes and dams of the Long Pond Reser·vo-Lr by about. one dnd a half meters and is part of the program undertaken by Hydro to enhance the water handling capabi 1 i ties of the Bay d'Espoir generating plant. I am advised that some twenty jobs wi.ll. bE?. provi.rJed during the peak of construction and work will commence early ln July with completion scheduled for Nov eu1be r· . A t.otal of two dams and three dykes in the Long Pond r e s e t' tJ o :i. r are "i.nvolved i.n this project. No. 63 R3553

MR. WELLS: Mr . Speaker·. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Oppos i t.ion . MR . WELLS : Mr. Speaker, we are happy to hear of UlH annou nc eu1en t. l ass urne .its 'intended purpose Js to increase the s torage~ capaci .l:y of the r'E:!Ser·voir· so 1 hat more of the pot~J8t' lAie LISE:~ C<Hl b~~ g~>.l'li·H'dh:~d by l1ydr ·o rather t.han oil, the end t' e S l.l J. 1-. U 11: i.Jfld 1-. <o~ 1. y .i. 1'1 S 0 Hllo' r r~ d u c t. i o n i n t hE! c o s t of el.c '!c Lr· ·i.ci l·y.

W<:'ll, 1 t:Hl~hHll;~c ~ i.h<: ~ wah'r hi:lndJing capabil:itJes 1 means I: o 'i. n c r f:! d s c,~ Uw ~; 1.: o r· i:1. g t! c a p a c ·i 1·. y so t.ha1 . more power can be g e n e r d I: e d f rom h y d t' o r· cl 1:: h E! r· UJ<:Hl oiJ .

Per·hi:ips '\.he most signj ficant thing about this is it might. create some jobs Jn Bay d 1 Espojr, which has an 87 per cenl: unemploymE ~nt r·a.te. ll:: is i:l local contractor from Newfoundland, fr·om Pasadena., and I would hope that the majority if not all of those jobs w:i .l.l. be made available to the people of Bay d 1 Espo 'i.r·, so t.hat-. ther·e v.llll be some means of offsetting the sixteen jobs that. the gover·nment has allowed to be taken out of Bay d 1 Espo tr and tri:lnsferred back to St. John 1 s. Every Jitt]e bit hr::~1ps and 1.11e '"'e1come l:ht:' announcement, Mr. Speaker. MR. R.

AYLWARD : Mr·. ~~peaker·. MR . SPfAKFR: nw h on . l. h t~ M 'i. n .is h:H' of' f o r• {:~ :; 1: Resour·ces. SOMF HON. MFMBfRS : Hear, hear! MR . R. AYLWARD : l3SS4 June 24, 1988 Vo] XL. Thank you, very much, Mr . Speaker . I would like to inform the Hol. that the Pr ou ince 1 s fore " protection program against the hem l o c k l. o ope r· l s ex p e c ted to start as soon as t.ueather permits. A few blocks scheduled for· Bt treatment will be sprayed first.

The spray program is being carried 0111 : by Lhe de par trnent . in conjunction with the two pulp and pap <:H' c om F.>.Hl i. e s , "'n d IAJ i ll i. n v o 1. v e spraying of 70 .000 to 80,000 ~H>. c i:. d r c,~ s of For· c,~ s 1.: 1 '" n d . T I H~ a r e a is divided into thirty-two spray b l n c k ~; , mo ~; t oF wh ·i. c h d r· E:~ in Northwestern Newfoundland, frorr n o n n E:~ Fl.:'!. y ~: n C a s 1'. o r· 1 s R i. v e r o n t h e Great Northern Peninsula. There M ' 1::~ d ( e I;J b J. 0 C I< S :i. r1 t h F.! 8 d y 0 f Islands area near Benoits Cove.

TI.Ul:~nty ·orw or these blocks IJ.dll be sprayed with Feni trothion while c>. 1 evE ~ n b J. o c k s ,,,;, 1.1 be sprayed with Bt, either Dipel 176 or Futura XL\. . 1.uhatever thai- . is. This mea n that approximately 25 per cent o the blocks wlll be treated with Bt which wi11 give the department c: good oppor·tun it: y t:o further evaluate this product as a controJ for the hemlock looper under average operational condition~ following the successful experiments carried out ir conjunction wi .th the C. F. S. lr 1987 .

The Bt b]ocks have taker .i. n t. o cons ·l de r·. :~ t .i. on areas, particularly, and f'·i. s h hi:lbi ta 1:. sensitive watershed! The pr·ograrn wi lJ be based in Por·i a 1.1 C h o 'i. x ;~ n d I: h 1:-) i.'\ ·i. t' s L r i p n e •'~ r that community will be used AE:~s ·i.cl~c'~; UH:~ s·i.>< penn.'lnf:~nt. anc long-term temporary personne: :i.J'JIJolvHd ·i.n l~hl -) progr'ctlfl, ther'E wi] 1 be twe nty-ni. ne seas anal s taf1 d i. r· l~ c i: l y :i. n v o 11H~ d i. n the s p r a~ operat'.ion for a period of up tr t. en u.Je E:~ k s . No. 63 R3SS4

department ~nd the pulp and pi::tper companies will again be fundi. n g t n ~>E:1 c :-i. d. de ex per· i rllf:' n 1-. :; in r.onjunct:ion w:ith the Canadian F o r E~ $ I. r· y ~3 c~ r

I) i. c t1 . T I·H~ s 1-:1 experiments w.i 11 inuo] ue the gr·ot ... JI:h n~gul .. :'ll:or·, Di.uri.li.n, r'lnd uarlous for·rnu]ations of Rt- wh:ich •..ui.l.J. be compared l:o cherni.Cc:ll :insec:tic:ide, Ferdtrot-hion. The pur·pose is l:o f•n·l-.hl':H' r·efi .m1 1-.he use of Bt and t..o try Dimjljn as a pr~.:1 ··etntH'9tHJcc~1 cherrri.cal :insectic:ide . The program wiJl be carried out by the C~nadian Forestry Seruice scientists with l.ogist"ica1 and manpower support supplied by the department. The de .par·l:ment has hir·ed twenty-two students to assist the Canadian Forestry Service with thelr experiments.

The experimental s pr·ay pr·ogr·,un star ted on JtHJe 2 2, 1988. The spray contract has been at..uarded to Agric A:i r Inc. ( Beauer Air Spray) of Ste. Cecile, Quebec. A11 t.he aricraft ar·e s ingl.~:1 eny ·i.ne •'lncl cons·i .:; t: of f i.IH:1 AgCat and four Ru1.1 Thrushes to be~ basoc:l . i_n Por·t: i'II.IX Cho ·i.x. 0 n c: 1-:1 1: h ~-:~ p r· o y r· i:Hil g e 1::; u n d tH'UJd y , l11forrnat::ion updates on t.he b]oc:ks b~:1.i.ng l:t't.:1i:1l:c-:!d wi.ll be senl: i:bri.ce da :Uy to a] 1 news media.

In aclc:li l:.i.on, l.he ge:1m1r·a1 ptJbl.·ic IJ.JilJ. be abJ.e to obtain :information d i r· e t 1 y by c a 11 i. n g 6 3 7 ··-2 3 0 2 . Co] 1 e ct. c; a 11 s wi 11 be a c c e pte d by the dep.u·tment. The number w.i.J.l be staffed by forestry personnel during regular· hours unt.i.l t.hE! pr·ogram begins. Once operations start, the number wi.ll. be staffed from 5:30 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. daily. Deta'i.l.E:1d maps auailable for For·e s try Saunders, t.he on the spray ~re uiewtng at the Unit Offi.ce at Port Reglona] Offices 1.3 1)5!) June 2ll-, 1988 lJoJ.

XI_ throughout: the Proui.nct~, t:lnd the Forest Protect.ion Diuj sion at the H e r· d l. d n u i. l. el-i. n g "i. n Co r n e r· B r o o k . The Department of Environment ofr·Lct~'s <..J.l.so hi.WE::~ cop"i.c~1s oF the spray maps for public ujewjng. Mr. Speaker, I thank you for the oppor·t:tlrl"i.l:y l:o r.;ddr·ess the House on this important matter. It is a r'E:11"1ec:i :i.on of gouer•nment 1 s commitment to maintain a strong Fot'(:1S t based i.ndustr·y i.n th i.s Prouince. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMONS: Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fortune - Her·mi t.age. MR. SIMMONS : Mr.

Speaker, we in the official Opposition support the need for an ad e q u r:l h.~ for· e s 1-. p t' o t e c t. i o n program. The forest industry 1 s E:1cononri.c ~.J.ncl rc-:!croi:'ll:i.onC11 worth t.o this Prouince djctates an 11 nr·~::1l EHJI: ·i. ng t:~ I-f or· I: l:o protect . i. t from jnsect infestation and from de!>l:r·ucl:"i.on by f:i.t'f:1 and Ute Li.ke. Now, Mr. Sper'lker, we also want again to go on the record to express concern to Lhe min.ister about the fact that he is still p e r s .i. s f: i. n g :i. n s pray i. n g o n 1 y about 25 percent of the blocks with a formulct of Rt.

I do not: kno•..u why he persists in this, there has to a reason, but has neuer tr·led to give the expJanation to the House. Indeed, not only does he fly in the face of the pleas from this side, but: he flies i.n the face of his own people: The Pest.icides Adui.sory Commi.ttee, the government 1 s own aduisory team on t:he subject, has recommended to the minister that they step up the No. 63 R3555

us8 of Bt to at least 50 percent. Now, Mr. SpE'aker, what is the point of C\ll these IAJell pr.d.d adv:isors if the government is golng to ignore adv-Lce in thei.r direct area of competence? The m i n i. s t e r· i s n o t a e x p e r· t i n Uri. s particular area, he has to take l::he advice - MR. MORGAN: What is the question? MR. SIMMONS : I uH~] come U1E:~ mernbEH' for Bonav:i sta SouLh. W<~ dr'e ~Jr:~IFi .ng I~Jhr.\1.: 11m cdl.l Stc.t.emt~nts by Ministers, whjch t: h e y d o n o i: ~lr:W E:~ ·i. n N :i. g e r· i. a , b 1 1 i: her·e we do. MR. Wf)RRFN : You •H'O yo ·i ng '" r 1:1:1 r· e1E~ct.Jon . MR. MORGf'IN : ( (n<'\udi .bl.

e) LclxCli:i.on l.alAJ . MR. ~HMMONS: Oh, he is awake now. uJ.i d (~ iil.I.Jcl k e . Uw tlf:'X 1: Ah, he is Mr· . Speaker, what i.s the point "in continuing to .have those advisors if the department is continually going t.o fly in the face of the advice .Lt gets on areas within their expertise? Mr·. Speaker, what is the reason? Why do they not just ~hrow out the whole advisory committee? And I say t-.o l·:he m-.i.ni.ster·. I~Jh.:-11 : as sur·ance can he gj ve to the peopll~ , 1.r.1ho h<'\ve · souu:1 concr::H·ns about . fenitrot.hion, · about the p o s :; .i. b i. l. i. i: y o F i. i".

E:'rl t: e r· · i. n g 1.: h ~~ food chcdn? What is h8 gojng to do i:o r'edSSI.Ir'e t.hose p(~oplr::1? Wt' l1 cl v ~~ a s u g g e s t :ion for· tl"l m : Stop u s i. n g f E-Hl i t r o 1-. h ion , s t-. 1::1 p u p UH:~ tJse of the vadous formu1e of Bt.. f o J.l. ou1 H1 t~ l. 1::1 a rl o f t·~ h ~~ p eo pl. c~ ·i n I 3 556 June 24, 1988 Vol XL Manitoba who have been doing this For· year·s, FollniAI the ad vi. c ~>. his own people, or get rjd t: h ern .

I s u g g e s t l:: h a t he f o l -, their advice, because then Newfoundla 'nd IAJould b(.;! ~~ lot bet.t .er off and the forest industry would be a l o t be t t e r p t' o 1: e c t 1::1 c.l . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. John 1 s Fas 1-.. MR. LONG: Mr. Speaker, it is cJear from the sl:dh~m~::Hll :. IJJ,:-11--. Uw rJJ.i.n:i.si :er for Foresty has brought in today that he-~ J:; do·i .ng h·i .~; job, And hi.s job in this case is to represent the ·i.nter·e:; I: of l:h:..~ c:ornpi:H!'Les and tc make sure that there is not toe TnllC:h d:i.ffi.cul.l-:y put.

"i.n their wa~ when the government trjes tc ad cJ r E~ s s i 1-. s t' (.;! s p o n s :i. b i 1 i . 1". y f o r protecting our forests agains ' insect infestation. But I would say that while the Minister of Forestry is doing hi~ job and clearly advancing the interest of the corporations anc prot.ectlng the.ir· int.erests, thE Minister for Environment and Land~ ( M r· .

R u s s e 1 1 ) u n F o r· t u n a t e l. y h a ~ been left out of this process . rlnd 1 would say that what IAJe havE seen in the last couple of months . th<'\t has led to t.he minister toda! announcjng this program, i! noth :i.n'::l shorl : of shameFul on the part of the Minister for F.rnFi.r·omne:Hll: dnd I.Jo\nds. T b~::1l.it11JE:1, a.:> ont:1 p r::n· s on 1~1 h o h a ! watch ·lng the this department integd ty of the been closely io\ c 1-. :i. vi l. i. 1::1 s of that the whole De:1par·1:rnE!nl-. of Lands has been En vir· o run~~ n t a rH put in jeopard! br::1C:C\IJSE:' oF lhi.s sprCly :Lng pr·ogrdm .

No. 63 R3556

at we have seen in the last year or· so is a process in tAihich enulronmentdl officials hdue clearly demonstrated to the Gouer·nment. of l:his Province,~ l'.h.:'\1". i he~ appllcatdon of a chemical spr'dY progr·.~m i.s d·~ngc.H·ous l:o Uu:~ ertu-.ironment, t.o human and animal 1 i f e w h l:H' 1::~ tJ e r· l: he r· e i ~; ;, p r· a y i. n g , and that an alternative biological spr·ay pr·ogr·.~uune, rhillll:'ly tJsi.ng Rt-., i:. boi h safe and effective.

But those r·~.:~commend.:lL.i.ons, for'tAJi'l.t'dl~d the Minister of lhe Fnuironment, were pre-empted by d process in which the Minister of Forestry refused to allow any space For thosE! r·ecommendations to be cons lder·ed, j umpHd the gun and announced ahead of time that the pr·ogram this Summer would s t i 11 be a pilot testing of the biological spray progr·am. Now what we have to say f.Lnall.y, Mr.

Speaker, on this is that it looks like the government is doing another spray program this year that is essen L i a 11 y ~~ e s I: i. n g B t for it s e f f E~ c t i v en e s s , and it wi 1 1 COHW bdck next ~. yc->.<~r •'ll'lcl Si:\y, IAI(~ si j] 1 do not. hav~ (.>nough evidence Lo s y s tc->.rna i: i. c.:-1 l.l. y pr·otJ<:~ i~ hd l: R 1: w.i l] bE:! an effective agent, and so next: Suu11ncH' IAH:~ ,_.rill ~h'\Vt:~ anol'.her· test spr·ay pr·ogram. At some po i.ni:, Mr.

Spc~;~ker·, Utt-~ people~ of the, Province have a right. to Ci:~XfH:~ C: L S Oll'lH a C COIII'l 1:.:\b i_ ].'i. i".y, P.spec:i.aJ J y from the Department of FntJi.ronment and Lands l:o pr·ol:ecl: the peop] e and the envi ronmenl f r· o 111 1.: he a p p l i. c a 1: i. on of 1: h is chE~rnical agent which has been toss~~d out everytA~h.ere else, from a]] other jurisdictions where it has been used . Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. DOYLE: r. Speaker· . L3557 June 21J., 1988 Vol XL MR. SPEAKFR: The hon. the Minister of Tr•ans por t-.a t-. i.o n. ~>OMF HON. Mf.MBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

DOYLE: ~k. nptMker·, J i'llll pleased to announce to the hon. the House of A s s e lOb l. y 1-. o d .~ y cl 1 i. s 1-. of s l X projects valued at $3,163,000 for 1.1.Jh i.ch t:ontr·.:~c l:s hi.iliJe bl->.en awardt~d by my department under the $40 million Provincial. Capital Roads Program. The projects awarded ar·e as follows: Awarded to Penney Paving Limited for upgrading and paving approximately 1. 4 KM of Route 4-50, recap approximately 1. 4 KM of Route No. 4.40 and recap approximately 2. 6 KM of Route IJ.50-13, Little Port Road.

The total ualue of the project is $60S,971 and the scheduled completion date is September 30, 1988 . AtllrH'dt:1d 1-.o Addms Cons t.ruc 1:: ion ( 1 9 7 5) Ltd . for g r· ad in g of ;:tppr·ox·i.m.~l:eJ.y 2. 1 KM of the Gt•and F~lls Industrial Access Road. The t-. o L I:\ l v ;~ l11 e of Utt:~ p r· o j e c i: .is $516,682 and the scheduled cornpleL:i.on daf:e ·i.s Uw last of October. Awarded to Penttecon Ltd. for r·~c.~pp·i.ng of ripprox:i.mal·:e.~ly 1. 3 KM of Route No·. 70 in Bay De Verede, r·ecapp·i.ng approximately l. 8 KM of Main Road in Grates Cove and pauing l.IJ. KM of Back Road in Grates Coue.

Total value of the project is $514,810 The scheduled completjon date is the end of September. Awarded to Ralph Janes Ltd. for upgrading of 3 KM of Route No. 363, Coombs Coue Road KM 8.4 to KM No. 63 R3557

1 1 . 4. ToU:tl vaJ ue of t h~! proj E:~ct i.s $1J. t3, 000 ;~nd the sched11l ed c.ornp]etion date is the last of Oc lob~H '. AIAicl r·d '"'cl t:.o West c~H· n Cons 1: ru c +-. i. on Co . L t..d . for upgrading and paving of 12.8 KM of" roads i.n Witless Bay and 7 . 9 KM of local road in Bay Bulls . Tot~l value of the project j s $764,200. The scheduled completion dah~ is the end of September. AIJJar·ded to Rd1ph J ... Hles 1.1-.d. for upgrading Route 310-32, Eastport towar ·d Bur·n stde, KM 5 ~~-o 7 .6. Total· value of the project is $311-8,000. ThE:~ sdwdul~ ~c:l cornplt ~l.·i.on dau~ is October 31, 1988. Mr· .

Speakc:~r, the .:-\bov~~ pr·oj ec h;, t o g e t h E> r u.d t: h p r o j e c t s p r e v i o u s J y ;-umounced ·i.n l.he pr·ogr-. :~m, diiiOIIrll: to ~pproximateJy ?2 precent of lhe $40 m'i.ll ion pr·og t'dlll, iHld OlJ e r· Hl!;! condng days and weeks I IJ.J:i.lJ be <'lnnou nc :i. ng U11 :~ di.IJ,-u·cl-i. ng of c:ont.ract..s for the remainder of t.he prog r'dlfl. SOME HON. MFMB~RS: Hear, hear! MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Bay d • Espo-ir·. MR. GILBERT: member for Burg eo Well, Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for this earth shattering-statement. .

However, we tH~ar·d -i_t·_ bt~for ·C-::~ d couple oF ti.mc,~s, or· mi:tybe thr·ee t:intes . The first 1: i.me, I)Jh c,~n U H:~ pork bar-r~:1l l.i.s 1: wa!> gjuen out, t.hey announced IJ.J h tH' 1:~ l. h E:~ p r· o j t~ c L s IJ.HH' C-::~ 9 o :i. n g l. o be:~ dj _stJ-·j but.ed this year, that. 90 FH~r·c~>.ni. oF u,, ,, $'1-0 rn-.i.J.l ·i.on ht1 IW'l~> go:ing t:o spend out of hjs 1..3558 .Tunc,~ :?11-, 1.988 Vol XL. provincial budget u.1as going i:-·'· o ror·y d i.s l:r·ict :s . So Ul i'li : bidS fj r·s t time that we heard it . sc~conJ l:ime IJ.H>. h(: 'ar·d lhi .s List.

Wu c when the minister stood in this Housf:~ and in onE:' or l·.:u.Jo sect.lclns announced that he was going to call t.Hndt:H'S. Finally, now lhat the contracts have been awarded, we ar·e go i.ng to hear it again. We are going to hear it on a day to day basis, one-a-day Doyle. A gou ernment that has to stoop to thi.s for 1-.:ypH of office. to bribe Newfoundland dol.l.:u·:;! tact.lc i.s not long Just imagine trying t.hc:"! people of with their own tax And I say, Mr. Speaker, that it is nol ·. uJot•l-.hy l:o r·espond to a statement 1 ike this.

I teJ J the rn :i. rd. :; h:n· 1: o c i'l ll a 11 e 1 c-?. c t .i. on and the people of Newfoundland wiJJ g ·i.lH~ h:i .rn Lht~·i .r· ·HlSI~Jer· r.-lbout. l.llhat they are going to do with peopJ e J:i. !< e ~d m . SOMf HON. MEMAERS : Hear, hear! MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Menihek . MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speakt>.r', thank the infor·mal: ·.i.on. we would minister Oral Questions MR. AAKER: Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKFR: l.ike for The hon . HH:~ IIH~Iflb! :H' for Gander . tc the No . 6 3 rn ssa

. BAKER: thank you, Mr. Speaker . My ques t.i.on to the Deputy Pr·ew L<-:"!r concer·ns the Department of F:i nance and U1e rnattt~r of retaJJ. sales Lr.\X co J.lE:~ ct. ion . I l.l.IO u 1 d 1 ike to put t-.he fo1l.o•.ui .ng sU- .IH-lU.on 1-.o Lhf:~ ruin:isier. A company, R]ackmarsh Enterprises, h~s been ~llo~ed or pE:!r ·nri t.t.ed t.o bu:i ld up a debt of r· e L i'l. i. 1 s "' l.t:1 s 1. d x , oiJ.ri . n '!I 1'. o U1 E:~ govE:~rnn•P.rd ovHr $650,000 over a p e r· i. o d of rom· yea r· ~• .

I s d y l: o t he rrd rd s i.e r 1. hat t. his i s a fri..ghLen'i.ng si .i'.udl: ·i.on, how Lh ·i.!> can bE:~ all owed to happen by t. he Depi:lr'hnent: of F .i.nanct~. I u.Joulcl 1 i k e to as k the M j n i s t. e r : How can s u c h a r e 1 ... d i. l s a 1 e s 1·. ax de f .i. c i 1: be all owed to be accumulated by one company over four year·s? What is the problem in the Department of Flnance? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. DR. COLLINS : Mr· . Speab~r, t.he hon. the Min i.s ter of Finance (Mr .

Windsor) I believe i. s r e t Llr' n :i. n g t. o t h ~~ P r o v i. n c e 1 a ~: <:~ r today, so he wjll be in the House, T would ani'. 'i. ci..pa t-.e, on Tuesd.'\y, and then for the five or six Mondr.\y s r.l fter· U1d 1: dur· .i.ng •~Jh i. c h t. he f-1 o use 1.u:i 1 1 be silting , and a 11 the ol :her· d•:1y~; ·i.n bE:~I:bH·HHl ''Jhf:Hl l·.h~-:~ House wjJl be sJt.ting ouer the rH~ X t c 0 IJ p l E:~ () r rno nUl :i ' s

I) h f.) •~ri .l 1. be abJ e 1.o answer· t.h:i s in deta:i 1. I din sur·e l:h~) hon. rnernbet· expech:'!d rue to take this as notice, which I do . Perh<:tps T could just mak<-:1 d gener·aJ comment . It depends upon Uu~ amount. of business i:l company i s do j 11 g a s 1:. o how qui c k 1 y it wi 11 dccumulat.e i.ts obligati.ons under The Retail Sales Tax Act.

Also, . '1 e r e h a s 1:: o b c~ a c e r t a 'i n d e 1 a y i. n act.util transaction of business by L3559 June 2/l., 1988 Vol XL. the company before the department wi .l.l even knntll l:hat tax is exiguous because there is a r t~ p or li . n g p e r· i o u , b u t t he r e t s a period that has to go by before a report is required, and then, thirdly, sometimes we do have col.lt~cl ·:i.on problems. We have compliance mechanl.sms in place, i.-lnd l:hr.-Hl '''E:~ go on 1-.o legal. mechanisms , but these also take a p e r· "i. o d o f i". i.IO c-~ . So 1". h .:-\ i~ 'L s j u s t. a genera] comment.

I certainly wiJ 1 p<:-lS!i l:ht-) han. merubtH' 1 s quest . i.on on to the M:irdster of Fjnance, and I h:\kt-) 'i.l: i-\!i nol'.'i.ct~, and ( dHl sur·e he will bring in the details. MR. BAKER: Mr . Speaker· . MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the member for Gander . MR. BAKER: rhe rnin.i.sb-:"!r knows he u.ras Min Lster of Finance when this debt was dccumulat .ing. He knows that . I did not ask a question to be answered by the present Mi.nister asked the Deputy of Finance. I Pr·emi.At' how developed over while he uJa.s How could thi.s could have the last four years Jn t:he Department? this debt have dt?.Vl:~J.oped?

We nec~d l·.o kno1~1 t~J'i.s not only the protection of the Prov-.i.nce b11t the pro l:ec: 1: i.on of the businesses in this Provjnce, which t' 1-:~ ,:11. l. y :; h o 111. d be d n d n e e d t o b e notifl.ed year by year what the :;il :uaU .on 'i.s. ls :i.l- . l:r•H:~, .:-ls I": he nuch t.or Gener·al says, that there is simply not enough i:lUdit : acUvi.ty ·in the Department of Finance, and there never u.1as an adeqUi:~.te i:\rnount . of audit activity in the Department of fLni:\nce when the Deputy Premier was in that position? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. 63 R351J9

You cannot ask h:i m that! MR . ~)PfAKER: The Iron . the Mj n'isler of HeaJ th . DR . COI.I _(NS : Mr ·. SpE:!a k E:!r', as han. members from l:hi.s ~;lclc,~ hdVl~ ini~~H'jHch:~d. it- . i.s improper for a member to ask a m i n .i. s t e r· abo u t a p r· e v i. o u s por·tfolio. So I took this q u e s t i. o n a s no t. 'i c c->. ln m y r· o 1 e a s Acting MinistE!r of Fj nance. I am the A c t i. n g Mi. n l s t e r· of F i . nan c e , as far as I am aware, while the Mini.ster of FJnan ce ls out of the Province, so I am taking notes in ~.:hat. r·ole. But h'l~. me rni:lke just another· genE!raJ commE!nl: Mr ·.

Sp~~aker, even !.:hough tAJe do go after vendors who owe tax, our tax s y s L ern 'i. s d v o l u n t. •H' y 1: a x s y s h~ 111 , like E:!very jurlsdjction in our Lype of socit:: !l:y . Wh r~n you puL in your· :inr.ont e t.c.x you voluntar·iJy sdy hot~J tnLtch income you makf: ~ ·~nd y ou v o J u n t Cl d J y s e n d i t J. n . In oi.hE-~r tAJor·ds, tAlE:~ do not have an dr'r'iH19C"!IItr~n 1·. IJ.Jhc:~T'f~by j;Htbl ."i.l; offj cia] s go ou t and determ::i ne your· v.-:lltH:~ dnd r·.dk~ ~ motH:~Y ou L of yout" pocket .

So, the same tAJay under The Retail Sales Tax net, we depend on thf: 'Se pEwp1e to report the i.r Jevel of bus .i.ness •:lnd send j n the lax. We have ways of checki.ng on i.t later, and if they had not sent in the tax we go after them, rind even if we do not get 'i.t we do not write it off. So it might have been on the books even though we have been making val 'i.ant efforts, ·including legal efforts to collec~ it.

And somet ltoes tAJhen we ror.lke legal efforts we still cannot get the 100 n (:~ y , b u 1-". t.Ale do not t.AJr i_ t <->. i t off, t.ve leave jt on the books unt.i1 absolutely eu ery avenue is ~~xlraust ~~d; Hwn th~~ only way we can wr'i.Lr:~ 'i.l: off i.s i'.o go l:o T r· ~~ ~-s u r· y R oar· d a n d g e t. T rea s u r y 1.. 3 r,\)0 Junt:~ 2/l., 1.988 Vol XI . Board's permission to write jt o~ ~ . r~R. Bl'lKFR : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. ~PEAKF.R: A final supp]ementary . MR. BAKER: T am .i.nterestE:~d i.n how this could happen. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! A fi.nal questi.on . MR.

BAKER: I understand, Mr. Speaker. The De:~pul:y Prem -i.~-:1r should explain ho~;. he can give me that answer when a~ [) 1:~ p 1 1 L y P r· em i. e r· h f:! J s r· e s p o n s i b 1 E for what. is happening ir govr~rnui!:Hll : .~nd r,~.Ja~; ac:tuall~ Minister· of Finance when thi ~ t~thol.f:~ l:h i.ncJ hdppenC:~cl. Now hou long ::is an Hdequate tjme? Is four Yt'iH'~; •. Hl ·~H.It~qu; _~l :f:~ l:i.IIH:~ l.o ~~ll.o : RST df:~bts lo bui1d up? Why is th 1ni.n:i.shH' nol : pr·ovid.i.ng for satisfactor·y audit activit.y in hi~ go v tH' I"Hrlf:Hl 1: , 'i. n UH~ [) e p d r· t rn 8 n I~ of Finance? MR .

SPEAKER: Order·, please! 1 do not think t:hat question i~ quite in order, because it is - MR. BAKER: He ls the Deputy Pr·ernier, Mr Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : d queslion directed to Fi .nr.HJc:~:~ . MR. TULK : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPFAKF.:R : No. o 1 that should the Minister bE oi R3 ~)60

e hon. the member for Fogo. MR . TULK: I did not exactly hear what Your Honour· said. Our po:i. n t. of or·d er is that the hon. gentleman is the DEputy Pr·em:ler and, in the absence of the Premier and the Minister Finance, obviously he should answer lhe question from the hon. genU.eman. He i.s r·.he next in command there. SOMf HON. MfMRfRS: 1-IE:~dr', hE-:!•H'! MR. SIMm>: To that. point. SpedkE:H'. MR. SPEAKER : of order·, Mr. To that poJ nl of order, the hon . the Govt?.r·mnrwnt House Ler.tder·. MR. SIMMS: The han. the Minister of Health has alr·eady answert?.d the quest"i .on, as a matter of fact.

All the Speaker has pointed out is that Reauchesne says that questions should not deal. 1..uith an action of a minister for which he is not responsiblE! to Parliament. In hi.s specific case he is not r·esponslble l~o Parliament for fj nance matters, the Minister of Finance ts . He hds agreed to t·.dke the quest.Jon as notice. MR. SIMMONS: He knotAts more about The Audit Act thdn ~nybody else. MR. :>T.MMS : HE-) rnay weJ 1, bul he is not. r·e:~spons·i.bl.t~ l:o Parl.i.arrH·)nl.: for· U~o::tl: Act, it is lhe Minist .er of F'i.nance. AnytAJ. ::ty, Mr·. Spe:~ak1-H', your ru] i ng j s perfectly correct.

The Minister of He~l.lh has answered questions, though. I .::~ess it i.s up to h"i.rn if he t..uishes to. 1_3561 June 2/1., 1988 Vol XI.. MR. SPfAKER: Or·der·, please! There is no point of order. The hon. the Leader of the Opposi.li.on. MR. WF.:LLS: Mr. Speaker, when I looked up e rH' 1 'i. e r· Ult:~ rH n :i. :.; t. e r· o f R u r a 1, Agricultural and Northern OtHJt:~lOf>nH :~ni : (r·k. PoiJ.Jer·) t.1Jd~; .in H1e Chamber, so I assume he :is in the pr·~:~coi.nc:l:s; :i.f not [ IJ.Joi.J.l. ask l:he Deputy Premier the question.

If ht-~ i.!> :i.n e.u·shol : and cr.Hl ~war· me, my question relates to the recent .:~ g r· .i. c u1 I: u r ~ 1 .~ g r· ~~ e 111 e n L-. i: h a t . h a s been announced and the response of t.he f,u·m~-:~rs in NeuJfoundland to the effect that it is not adequate to 1r1eei: l:he needs of Lhe far·mers i.n Newfoundland. My question to the mini.ster· is has the government been taking steps to ask the fed e r· a l. go v e r· nrne n t to p r· o v .l de for the ACOA program supporting farmers and agricultural projects?

Has this government been tak ·i.ng any steps to have the federal government provide for the Aeon program to ass ·ist. farmers and agricultural projects? MR. SPEAKER: Tht:~ hon. r·.he Agricultural

I) l?. V e 1. o Plllt·Hll: . MR. POWfR : Mints l·.er and of Rural, Northern Mr. Speaker, dS I explained the ot-her day in lhe Mjrdsterial !)i:;:~I :HrnenL r madt~ on our· Drought AssJstance Program as it relates i:o Uw Agr· ·i.Ctlltllr'al ngreeUIC-?.nt that we signed for $8 mi 11 ion, and the L..i.ves l:ock Feed Ass.i.s tanc:e Program we have which is a $4.8 million agr·~~emenl, ne'i.ther of these amounts of money is gojng to be suffici.enl: to do the kind of things in agriculture that we as a No. 63 R3 561

government wouJ d like lo do. The bi.ggesl: pockt:~l: oF fedP.r·a] /pr·ovj nc.ial money that. we Cdrl dCCF.!SS •'IS d (',H'fll COIIIriiUI'l·it:y ·j_~; il1e ACO{) funding. We have wr:it.ten .':1 lol: o(' lc-:'l :l:er:; t·.o ~k. Cr·osb·i .t:~, t..he federal rrd ni!;t.er, we have 1.: a l. k Nl

h) L h c-~ FE! d E:H' d 1 M i. n i s h~ r· o (' A g r· i c u lt · u r E-! ( M r . W :i s e ), and we r·E:~dl.l.y r.~rr-?. hopi.ng thr'll: souw of the r·egu] ator·y changes wj 11 be made once the ACOA l.egisldtion is passed, so that we will be able, as a fann cornmun'i.l-.y, to access a.lJ. of the ACOA funding for capital.izcltion, for farm :improvements, and for extension and . expansion of far·ms. We ar·e wo r k i n g u e r y c l o s e 1 y wi t h the federal government clnd Mr.

Crosbie, workjng locally with the ACOA people, dnd hopefully over the:~ next: couple of months we will be able, as r.~ far·rrr counnun·i .l-.y, l:o access ACOA funds. MR. FFNWTCK : Mr . Speaker . MR. SPFAI<FR : T h t:~ h o n . t h r'! Hl!;! 111 be r· r o r· r~ t:~ n Uu:~ k . MR . FFNWTCK : ThoHlk YOII ur~ry IIJIII:h, r~r· . Spt'!o'lkf·H' . My question is t:o the Mirdster r e s p on s t b l. E:~ f o r· the f i. r· :, 1: y e r.1 r· urd.vers:i ty pr·ogram :in the counnuni.ty college system, l:he Minjster of Career Development and Aduancc~d St:udles (Mr. Matthews).

As the minister knows, not only the people .ln my distrlct, but also I think the people of St. An~hony, Stephen~ille, Gander, Marystown, Carbonear and other p 1 aces .in 1: he Pro u .l n c e are a 11. interested in getting a first year untverslty program established in their community. In the Speech Fr·o111 thE:~ Thr·orH~ on March 1.0, I-. here was an j ndj cation fron1 the goven111HHll: t:hal: Lht~Y I•JOIIld del-er I 3 S6/.

June 24, l 988 Vol XL any expansion of the first y ~ ~r II i'l'i IHH") i. 1: y f>r' 0 y r ;~ 1n 1: I) 0 :~ centr'E:lS untj] the pr·esent. study cornpl.c,'h:~d Oil Uw t:~l'f:~ctivfHH~ss thE:~ Gr·and Falls and Lewjspor'LE pt·og t'dlll. r~y 4110 ~; 1: .ion Lo thE mjrdst..er Js t.hjs: Since seueraJ rnont· .h~; hdvr:~ passl:'d s i.ncH then, ant since we have had a first year un-i.vt:H·sil.y pr·ogrc:.'un under· our belb jn those particular communities . could UH:~ rni.nisb~r glue us scnne indication of what the studies arE s h ot.u in g w i. t h r· e fer en c e to thE success of these particular prog rauts? MR .

MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Uw M.i.n:i.s ter· of Career Development and Advanced Studi~s. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon member for· t.tw quesl:ion. All tar prepared to say today is thal th. IH:H'Y pN·L ·i.rwnl: i.nfor·waU.on wi.J.l b made auai] abJ E:! -j n t..he not to' d·i.s Ldnl-. fui-.un~ . MR. FFNWICK: n '? u p p J. c?. m f~ n 1: a r y , M r· . S p e a k e r . MR. SPEAKFR: A suppl.C:lutent .• ::~ry, thE:~ hon. Ut ' member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Mr.

Speclker, we have already see press releases from the Presjden of Treasur·y Board 'lndicattng tha these programs have been highl Sl.tccessful. in terms of the pas rate, and the President of th College, Shelia McKennon Drover has indicated the program ha accessed a 1.~o1hol.e new body o students, and since, obujously th~) inforutal·.Jon of thc->.sc->. r~->.port have been leaked already by th Pr·t:~ s ·i. d c;;Hl 1-. of Ute,' Tr·ea sur· y floc:• No. 63 R3562

J by the Pr·es ldent of l:he College, could lhe minister responsible give us some indication of when this House will get a chance to see the particular report that contains the assessment that attests i·.o the guccess of the program already, and has indica~ed that they dre doing what we told them they would do·~ year ago, and rire bei.ng very gu c ce s sful in bd ngi ng new people in dnd gi.IJ·i.ng thE:1nt i:\ good st:drl: on their universjty careers? MR. Mf'HTHFWS: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPFAKFR : The h011. t.hE.~ Mi nJ st:er of Car·eer I)~~V!:1lOpHif>.nl: anti ndlJoHJC[·~d Sl:ud ·i.C-'!~). MR. MnTTHF.W3: Mr·.

Speaker, i:l!> I ind:i cated that Jnfot'llk\ l:i.on u.ri .ll. be dVd il.~ble soon. The han. gentleman J.s quite ~orrect in saying thdt the results at Grand Falls and Lewisporte have been uer·y I ver·y good i.n comparison wi lh similar 1 evel students at the u n i v e r· s it y ; d s a mat . t e r oF F cH t I t would hi:lve to say in all fairness that the results at'E:1 better. Aut there are other ongoing programs i. n t h ·~ Pro v inc e right. now .

The r· e are capital construction projects, at a number of our campuses, tha~ have to be completed before we can move For·•.u;;tr·d wJ. th addi.l: ion.~J. cour·ses and brokering of courses Fr·om Lhe i.nst:ttut.es ouL .~nd .~round the Province. So our f:.i.rst pr.ior·:i.l·.y I Mr·. Spe.~ker·, i.s to m.~k!-:1 sure that our fad .li ties are br·oughl : up l:o scr·.:o\l,:ch IJJ'i.l:h r[:~'!jar•ds to laborat.orjes, research r d c i 1 i U . e s I J. i. b r· M' i.e s d n d [) i: h F.! t' Ud ngs, because i.hege lh:i ngs are v ~H'

I) rll>. c: l-:~ s s d r y b t-) r

C) t' e UH:~ university would even consider pf>.rrnil.:l.:.ing •.1s l::o orrer· course~> in _,i. her locations . So we are about right n01.u get-.t:..ing our· fac:i.li.ties L3S63 June 24, 1988 Vol XL brought up to p~r dnd we are going to have five or six very modern well -equipperl facilities in the different community college regi.ons of the Province. Government will be making a decision la~er on as to where additional first year university courses will go in the Province, and when. MR. FENWICK: n rindl supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPFAKE'R: A r·i.na l. ~;upplE:Hfi!:Hli".iH'Y I the member for· Menihek.

Lhe hon . MR. FF.NW(CK: Mr. Speaker, since the minister hds adrn·i . t: l·.f:~d t·.h~"t they have br::~en succegsful, and obviously have passt~d l:hf:~ mdjor· hurdle that was established for them, could he giv~) us d dt1lailed descr.i.pUon of the centers that are now under con:; i.deral.:ion For· establishment of the first-year university programs? [ lflust say, on a parochial basis, I hope the first one is Menihek. Could he give us some sort of timetable? .Are we looking at. the possibility of getting something going by S~ptember of 1988? Are we looking at September, 1989? Are we J.ook:ing al : January, 1989?

Could the minister give us some idea of IJJhr:\l: kind of implementation gchedule this government is look ·i. n g .:d: so t h d t: U1 .,~ p eo p 1 e in these centers will have some ft·H:~l.·i ng ror• IAJI"HHl t.hey Ci:lrl Start usj ng thege pr·ograms? MR. SPHIKFR: Th~) hon. l:h•~ Mi. ni. ~; Ler· of Cdr' Her Development and Advanced Studies. MR. MATTHEWS: M r· . S p c.:! H k CH' , t·. h a L i. s we are doing now. kn01.us, therE:~ 1.~o1ere No. 63 exactly what As everyone some problems R3563

encounter'E-)d ln our high school pro g r· am s , with s c i en c e and lfldthem.'\L 'i.cs p.'\rl .:i.cul..H·l.y. TIH 'r·~~ hi:i~ ; ln~en an ~jndeplh study 1ookjng i.nl:o l.h<:~ pr·obJ.,~ms IJ.l'i.th 011r s.:ir~'l'lCt>. i:lnd rni:lth. lhi:it . :is :in pr·ogrE: !S S. As IJ.H:~ l.l. I IJ.lt' IJ.lo ~~ n 1: F.! d 1:

I) Old k 1:' !; II t' ~~ tlti:lt all of i.hc~~ bugs 1.uere:~ ironed 0 IJ I: 0 r 1: h E-~ r i. r· s i: . y ~~ oH ' IJ n i. v I·H' ~;'i. i: y co u r· s E·! s e:tt · Grand F a 1.1 s and I e t~Ji . s p o r· 1: f:~ . f:: v c~ n l: h o u g h 1.!1 t~ ctCctdemic success r·ai...e has been very good, i':~H~H·e l.o~.Jet·e some~~ sl:udenl: accommodation problems, not being abl.l;! l.o accormnodal- .e l:ht:~m on the ci:lrnpus where 1.ue wanted them. So t.ue had Lo go ou ts- ldP U1e curnpus, which led us to some logistical pr·oblems.

So we ar ·e tr·ying to make sure that when we do move c o u r· s e s t o o t h e r· r· e g i. o n s o f t h e P r· o v i n c e t : h a t prop e r fa c i 1 i t i e s cH'~~ in pl.r!lce. As to where courses future, that is a go v e r· rww n t: wi l 1 be future . MR. I.ONG: Wh r:!n? ~OMF HON. MFMAfRS : I n t h e f u t LH ' e ! ri!R .

MATTI-I fWS : t.ui.l.l go in t-.he ded sian that mak ·i.ng i.n l:he As soott as a declsjon :is rnade, I IJ.Ji .l.l. b(,~ IliOn:~ l::hdn pJ.e.'lSI?.d i:o l.t~L th£: ! hon. gent:Je:nnan know, and other hon . lllernbHr'S i.n the House and I or coun;e, the pub1ic of Newfoundland and l.abrddor. If the h o n . g e n t 1 e rna n has h "i s tAla y , i:IS we knotAJ from hts .t week, there would not be a dollar spent. anywhere else in t.his Province only ln St. John•s, where right now $120 rni1lion of a $183 rnillion post -secondar·y ed ucation budget . is bej ng spent.

But we are a governrnenl:, Mr . ~>peaker, thr.lt is gojng to take first-year 1.3 561\. Jum~ 21\., 1988 Vol XI . U n i. versj_ l:y COIH 'S I~S from our jnstitutE>c:; I. h !:~ P r· o IJ J n r: f:~ . ·~nd co t.~r · ·=>s out and a::-.

Wh. :~l: IJ.Jt:~ •~rt:~ doinl~ r·"i.ghi-: notil i.s dE:!Ve]op:ing a future p]an, a four or · 1-i.vn yn.:~r· pl.dn :;o l.:hdl : 11.Je liJLl.l be abJ e to infor·m the peop] e of l:ht:~ Pt 'C)IJ'i .nc::~. o]l1d peopl .l-~ i.n thf' dJstdct of Merdhek who have c yr·:~;~ l: rH :~ ed dot~Jn H1 er·e For post.-secondary education, wher i". ~w y c: i:Hl e x p r-:! c l: l.: o r· e c e .i. v e 1": h f:' i r share of university courses, c 0 IH' s ~~ s r r 0 Ill Uw _;_ n s [-. i. t u t e s I a n c localized courses as wei], whic~ l h f:' 8 o a r d s o F Go v e r nor· s ~.o~.Ji 11 s e E fit to implement in their r· e s p e c 1:: i. u e r· e g :i. o n s .

MR. SIMMONS: Mr·. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! Refore recogni .z:i.ng t.he hon. lhe member for Fortune - Hermitage, t~li .l.l. just : i:aktl ·~ rnotrH >.nt: ·· [do no like jnterrupbng Question Pedo( t-.o t~Jt:>lr.onH:~ 1-.o Uw g;~J.ler .i.es th1 lord Mayor of Bdstol, Mr. Derdc l Teddf:'t'; rllr. w i.lcox I Mds tel Merchant Venturers Association Hr·-i.sl :ol; ;~nd 011r' Olilll r.>c~~ptJI ·:y Mayor· Mrs. Shr'lnn ie Duff. SOME HmJ . MF.MRF.:RS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Thf-~ hon . the member for· Fortune Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker, 1 have a question fo the Minister of Transportation.

On the 16th of March H o u s e , d u r· i. n g a d e b a b?. railway issue, he made di .r·ecl : undertak ·i.ng that see to jt that not No . 63 in thi on th a ver he I.UOU 1. only t! · rn 56'1 -

J..! ... ··ticular interests of COIIIIIIUni.l · . .i.es SUCh d$ Pot•l: dUX Elasques and Bishop•s Falls were addressed .in any r·a:i.l.way c:l.osedou.m package, but he also undertook that for comrnuni.t:ies such ~s Clarenuille and Badger and Stephenville Crossing, those communities which also have a r·aill..uay component, ttHH'e l.lloul.d be •an adequate compensation package put in placH to he1p them out, 1 and these are hjs direct words. I IMonder· uJould he, in l.Jght: of that c:ommitn1ent at that tjme publicly Ul•:l de 1 i. nd i. c •'\ t e 1~11'1 d t IJ.If:Hl i: IJ.Jr'O n g bei ween cup and lj p?

What hdppcHll.!!d l:h.:~l: Ai.shop•s F.:~l1:> gol". protected, Port aux Rasques got Lhe shafl-. 1 <:lncl l:hc~ r·~~~sl: n~~V!H' (·)lJt:Hl got. an honour·ab] e ment :ion? M R . !3 P F n K F R : The hon. the Min:ist .er of T r· a n s p o r l".i:-l t: i. o n . MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speoker·, I itdnk those remarks dnd co111ment ·.s wer·e 111dd8 i.n i·.h~::~ context of a good package for employees affec l::ed Jn those:~ particular communities. MR. SIMMONS : Yes, yes. MR.

DOYLE: J think we have seen to that, ·that a good compensation package have been put in place for these people wlth d $70 mi.l.J.ion J.abour adjustment program that has been put . .i.n pJ.r.\ce for· them. T t-.h i.nk eVE:!ry eruployee is go:i ng to be gener·ousl.y looked i-lfter·.

Th"i.s ·i.s the wor·d that we ar·e getting, that l:he $70 wJll i.on ,~Ji .l.J. be used to scdisfy t.he U!rms ond c:onditjons or l·.he pr~:~SC~Hll· . col.Jc~ci: ·i.lJP. ii g r· EH:! r11 erd i. h o "l i s j n p J a c e . 0 v e r .:-tncl .:-tbove:~ l:h.::t1 : 1 CN 111·i .ll. .::tl.so be ·ffer:l ng ii pac koge of emp] oyment benefits to its people. L 3 t;6 5 June 24, 1988 Vo] XL I think probably the hon. member is re r err·i. ng l".o i: he community itself. Well, Mr.

Speaker, I do not t.hink I made <HlY comrnenl .:s :in that context that each community in the Province will be looked after, but simp] y the workers from these par·i:icular communlties and the communities hardest hit indust.ri.a1l.y by the shutdown of the railway itself. We have seen t-.o t:hal.: .xs l.lle11 u.ri.th a very generous compensation package whi.ch uJi.lJ. be applied to the town of Port aux Basques and t.he town o f A i s hop 1 s Fa l. 1. ~; . So he i. s atJJa r e of al1 of thot. MR. SIMMONS: rllr·. ~~p~~ak!H', i:l. ~;upplementary . MR.

SPFAKER: A ~>llppl.!:~lllt-Hll:rH'Y, 1-.h~-:~ hon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Mr·. Spt~.::tkt-H' I t.he minister, of course, is right about the $70 rni.1l.i.on compensal..ion pack<xge for the workers, the adjustment p i:l c k a g ~~ or w h a hw t:"!r' i t i. s c a 11. e d I and it was not to that that I was refer·r i.ng bu l to communi ~:y adjustment . Now his speech on March 16th made a dir·ec t refer·ence l::o ar·eas being negatively impacted, I am talking about the areas now, and he specified C1arenville, etc. MR. SPEAKER: Order· I please! W"i.l.l.

HH~ hon. member· p1~~ase pose a question? MR. SIMMONS: 'fc~s~ Si.t·. Mr·. ~ipt:~i:l.ker·, my qtH)S 1·. i.on is: Will the rrdn:lster indicate to the House IJ.Jhi:ll : h<::tpperH:1d tho:lf: oH'f~•'\S l.:i.ke No. 63 R3 565

Clarenuille ~nd Corner Arook, he rnenlioned those two spedfical]y, d l d no ~. g 8 t '" d d r 1:1 s s e d ·i. n t h <::~ package? I am ta]kjng about. the conHIIIHJ i. ty ddj usl~1non 1-. pac k•'I<.:J1:1. What . happenP.d i.hat lher·e was no 1111-?.rll-iun of l:hf: ~ln, no pr·oLJis ·i.on ror· c:onuuurd i ies such as lhose? I c o ul. d nlf:~ n l: ·i.o n o l: h f:~ r· ~; l. i. k lo~ Si epiiPnvj 1 l e Cross j ng, Badger, W h i. 1-. l:l our· n e:~ •HI d so on , b 11 l: 1.41 1·1 d 1: l1appened t.hat t.lwse are not f>r'ovid~::'cl ror· i.n U11 :~ cowrnuni .l:y etdju:.irn~ ·~ni. package?

Cou]d the 1ni.ni.sl ·c"!r' nol : g(:~l ·: hi .s IJJ.:\Y i.n i··.h1:1 IIE:1goUations? Was he part of the n e g o 1-. i. a 1.: i. n s ? MR. SPEAKER : The:~ ho n. the Minister of Transportati.on. MR. DOYLE : Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member 'ls at his samt1 old game. He tries to take remarks, twist t.he1n ar·ound, and t.c~ke thetn out . of context . When we debated this resolution in ~he House, Mr. Speaker, the rc::1marks that I made ~.,., i. L h r· c:! s p c,~ c I: i:.o t. h o s ~=~ par 1:. i c ul d t' areets t.11er·e as etreas that had t.he 1110$1 : rtl.llllber · or l>mpl.oynes di .r·ec:i :l.y jrupacted.

As I sajd, we have l·.akl ~l'l I:Wl-)t'Y sl'.ep, r·'lr'. ~)p!-~dkC:H ', 1.1) put. :i.n p1iH.:P. a vc->.ry, very gem ,rous c:

I) I fl p 1:~ n s .:\ 1: . i.

I) n p i'l c k .: ... 9 e r

I) r· I: h I) ~; ( ~ peopJe , agaJn I repeat., $70 uri.1l. i 011 IJ.J~J'i c h IJ.I i.l.l. s i:"\ 1: ·i. s r y HH:1 i ~~ r· rn s of the current. co 11 e c i.. :i. u E:! dgr'(~<>.lllf-HJi:. CN has madt-) U11,~ cornm:i 1.ment as weJl to negotjat.e rur·thE:H ' packages uri .t:h l:hei.r · :1 ndivldua] employees over and above ~ thai: $70 tni11to .n package . The hon. HH->.rnb8r, as T. said, i.s tetk:i ng the remarks out of contex t. It rJJas never rner:lnt l:hr:ll: every sjngle community in NerJJfoundl.and Ulr:l~. had a r·ai.lrJJay employee wou]d receive a community adjusl :rnent . packdge..

We wer·e ve.r·y, I. 3 S66 June 24, 1988 Vo] XL. v P. r· y c: cH' e f ul. i n d t~ e d t o s c r· 1.1 t i n l z e the jmpact it ~A~ going to ~ ~ upon l".hf:1 h•IO cc->.ntres rr negatjveJy affected, Bishop Fa J: . o'll'ld Por· 1·. di.IX Hdsquc~s I dlld took steps to put Jn place t.he C: OfiiiiiU iTi . i: y i'ICij 1J S l:nH>. n 1·. p t'O g t'i:HII . OvE:!r the nE:!Xt . numbE:~r of weeks anc rllo n 1: h s , IJ.

H) IJ.J 'i.l.l. , .:'1 ~; i:l go v e r nrnr->. n 1: , Mr·. Speaker, be monitor:ing ver~ c l.o s C:1l.lj 1·. h :,1 I J s 1:~

I) r L hi .~ 1'. TIIO n e y . w 1-' have a committee put in placE c

I) n ~d 5 l: ·i. 1'1 9

I) r r Nl e r i:"\ 1 p (.;! 0 p 1 e I provind a1 people, and peop] e fron l:hosE:1 connnunit·i.es as IJ.Jell tc.: ensure that the money that ha! b c>. en rna d f>. a v a 'i.l. a b l. e l: o 1:1-J o s (~ a r· E~ i.i ~ is used in the best possible way . Again, the hon. my r'P.marks out. Speaker. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speake ·r. MR. SPEnKER: member is takin~ of context, Mr . A final supplementary . MR. SIMMONS: T. ~' U1 1:~ rrd . n i. s ~. (;~ r· r· <->. d l 1 y 1. 'i. s l:. e n i n ~ to what. he is saying?

Yest .erda~ bt- ) bJa~ ; di.sobm ·i.ng hi .s s t.:~~.ement~ about protecting t.he Terms o1 1)1-J'i.on i:'l C011pl.t:~ I)(' 11101'1 l:hs prior · Is he prepared to acknowJ edge tha · o n I h t-~ 1. () 1: h o F M ;u· c h ~w s .:'1 ·i. d , 11 t i ]eaves out the communjties i1 Nf.!IJ.ll'ounclland IJJt ri.c:h should htiVI s om e j n d i cab on that if tl-11 t'r'l-i.l.IJ.J,~Ij clos•?.s 1-.l·w'i.r· comrnuni.t.ie~ wilJ receive 11 - 11 t.hejr· communitie · ~.Ad 1.1 t' t?. c e i. v e 11 11 s om e k ·i. n d o f compensation package 11 ?

Mr· S pH •:i k e r , IJJ h y doE:~ s he no l rep h r· a s 1 what he is saying about my t.akin, _ ~d .s rern.u·ks out of cont .e.xt? Is h1 not the one who is disowing hj OIJ.Hl r·emarks ·e two months ag ' he wanted prate c t thos , counnuni.ties, Jrovlde for them I beljeue th 1ister is speakin IJ.li. th c::l fork ongue agel in. 1!)1 1' No. 63 R3S66

'S ht-) not. OIJJrl up 1-.o the -gi U .macy of what he said in Mr.n·ch, sh:tnd by -i.l : nou1, and go 011l: and prot..ect those communtt :ies, like Por·l : aux Brlsques ·~nd f-.h:~ olhers I mentioned, that got the s ha f -r-. "i. n thoi. s par· t J. c u lar ag r·ee111e n 1-.? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPFAKER: The hon. the M i.n i.s t:er of Transporation. MR. DOYLE : Mr .

Speaker, we have kept our counni.l-.ment-. l:o UJOs(~ comrnun·i .l:.ies, as T said, those areas that u.1ere 111 o s i: rH:1 g a 1: i u .:1l. y i. rn p a c l:f:1 d , .:'1 n d I~ h a I: doP.s not happf ~n to be every sj ng] e COOITIIIItl i. Ly i.n N~IJ.Jroundl.<:Hld. Thc ~H'f:1 c.r ·e CHrtc.in ar·~c.s of the Pr·ovinc:e IJ.Jhf-H'f-~ I rr·om r.l.rl i.ndtJ!) (·r · i .• :.J.l. po'i.nl: or u:i ~w, tll:i s agr ·eement wiJ 1 hc.ve a g r·e .. ol. l:e t' f.! f r f:1 d: Hli.Hl 0 1: hc·H' !) .

T. n ter·ms of t.he tJJorkers, and we were spe.:::~k"i.ng r:'lboul : Lht1 IJ.JOr·ker·s "11.!)0 wh~HJ thE:!se remar·ks tAJere rnade l ln cer~d"i.n are~s of the Prou"i.ncel like Bishop's Fc.l1s and Port aux Aasques, mor·c~ peopc-;!1 u.ri.ll be c.ffected . Mr. Speaker I as I said, I can only repeat the same old thing t.hat I have been saying for lhe last Few days, that we have given the assurance to these people that they w-i.ll be protected under this Community Adj us !:men t Program and under· t.he Labour Adjustment Program as well.. What the hon. member is saying is just so much gobbledygook, Mr. Speaker . MR.

Pt:'liRr> : Mr· . Spe.:::~ k er· . MR . SPF.AKFR : The hon . t.he member· for Humber Wr~s 1:. ,'1 R . RAt IW : 1_3567 June 24 1 1988 Vol XL Mr '' Sptho\ki:H ' I [ h i:ol.VO i:\ quc~s I: i.on ror the Minister of Transportation . T.n view of the announcern~nt of the closedown of the CNR this week I I understand .U . could affect ., particularly in Port aux Basques and on the Wes 1: CoCist, thirty to forty employees - somewhere in that uicintty; maybe up to fifty - of CN Marine. Is there any provision being made for the employees of CN Marine that could be affected? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. i·:ht.;!

M.i. rd s ter· of Transportation. MR . DOYLE: r·k . Spt:h.J.ket', .:::~:; a lO~'It.ter of fact, I had a meeting about that at 8 n.r1. Ul'i.s mor·ni. ng, beror·e sorne of the Oppos:i t.ion members got out of bt:HI. SOM~ HON. MFMRERS: Hear, hear! MR . DOYLE : Thank you very much . 1 had d. rn.:1el:i.ng Uli.s rnornlng at approximately 8 a.m ., Mr.

Speaker I with the President and Managing Director of CN Marine to go over t.L.J.i.th thern the i111pact i.f any this particular agreement might have upon CN Marine workers at Port aux Basques, because we are getting a number of conflict.lng reports over the last number of days I reports t.hat you hear in the pr·ess, that there will be anywhere from fifty t·.o one hundr'E:1d IJ.Jorkers lai .d off. Mr Speaker, I must say that the nlfH ) l:'i . n g U.ld. s a v e r y , u e r' y product.:.ive one.

However, it :is goi .ng l:o bt-) rnonl:hs, acl'.ual.J.y, before any numbers can be firmed lip by CN Mru• ·i.nt:1 io\!i 1-.o Uw nt.lHlbfH'S that. are going to be 1 aid off , if r'l n y . I~ n d I !) l:t·c~ s s d n d II n cl (-:1 r l. .i. 11 (:1 No . 63 R3S67

that 'iF any' because t have b~1en lold by the president this morning lha t UHH'e 1nay not be r.tny tJJor·kers lc:tid off, and there could be some 'la'i. d off . nw .~greewent . itse lf i.s only a t..r.Jeek old, and they have to sit do1~1r1 IJJ.il::h Tl·H't'dTr·,:ulspor·t : i:o fJnd ou t exactly in what direction UH>.y •H'O moving 1 . .\.d .l'.h t'OSfH ~cl- . t-.o thE.> Jtd .E:!rmodct.l system. When Mr· . l.di~J l ess, 1-.he Pr·e:1s i.dc~ni: of CN, I~Jr.l!i :in H1e c:i i y 1 as l week he gave OVC!r'y i.nd-i.c;~t ·.·inn l:hi:'i: UH:1Y ''ri.ll. be ~ggres s Jvely marketing their i nl~t:H'niOdr .~l.

Sf>.t'IJ i.Ct-) i.n NPwfoundJand, so it could very IUC.:>ll. lH:1 i:hat Ull:'Y o:\t't:1 "::JO 'i.ng l:o Y'EH :api. ·ur 'E-! et Jot. of ihat business they J.os1: over· L:he l..::tsl : nurnbrH' or YP-ars. So, first . of ~11, it has t o b e d f:' 1-. 1::1 r tn i. n e d IJJ h t?. 1:: h e r· o r· n o 1-. they are going to recapture their s h a r· e of t h ~~ rna r· k e t . A 1 so , l t has lo be determined by the marketplace itself where and in what direction the freight is 9 o 'i. n g t. o be rno v .i. n 9 , e it her by the :int .ermodal service or· through the 11.1a t e r· s e r· v i. c H . So, Mr· .

Speaker, all of these 1: h i. n g s d t 1.: h i. s p o i. n ~~ 'i. n t ·i. tne a r· e not known. As I said, the a g r e f'!l rHHl t J t s '~ l f i. s o n l. y appr·oximateJy et tJJ e~~k old c.nd the CN MrH' -i.n(:1 p e ople~ hi:tiJl~ l:o si .l: dOIJJrl tJJj i.h t.hE-1 T{:'YTaTransport people and Lr·y Lo h•'lnllltr ~r· oui: 1-.hOSl~ k·i.nd!; or df!t.c.ils. Rut ., Mr.

Speaker, we h d v 1:~ b ~1 r~ n g · i. v f:1 n ~} IJ ~} r· y 'i. n d ·i. c .:'\ l: :i. o n ihC:tt if there are ~orne Jayoffs I: h E:~ y 1~ri. ll c: e t' t-. a "i. n 1. y h i.W n i: o l. o o k at t.hese peopJ.E-! and see t.hal lhey t:l t' :~ f>io.l t' l: 0 ( i.'\ C Olllpt-} n S •'\ l-. ·i.o n d 1:~ .:11. . Rut, agajn J stress, _ they are noi sun~ i.f any tJJOt'ker·s l!Ji.ll bt: ~ la i.cl off, or· t..r.Jhr.tt the numbers wiJ.l be, but L.r.J<->. have been , .. _old lhr:tt uJe wi.l1 be continually involved in that process .

As soon as that informC:ttion js known, after the mt~e t.ln9s hav e been c01npl.e ted IJJi . t.h TerraTransport, I will again be L3S68 June 2'1-, 1988 Vol XL talking to the President, and thE Managing Dire c t.or here Newfoundl.dnd, l·.:o see l.:hdt L interests of th ose people ar E prot .<:~ c b:1d. SOME liON. MEMRERS : Hear, hear! MR. LONG: M r· . ~1 peak e r . r-1R. ~>PFAKF.R: The hon. the member for St. John'! F.~~> I-.. MR. LONG: Mr· . Speaker, I have -a question for l·.hl:1 <;ovf:!Y'rHIIC ~nl: !louse Ledder·, thE Minjster Responsible for thE SI. :.:11· .•.Js of WoutE:11'l.

T. do not kno1JJ ii he is still here and able to tab his seat to answer a question which is it not entirely unrelate< to the irnpor·ta nt ·i.nitiative hE announced today, which obviousl ! lJJi.ll i.mpac t .in an important: way or the status of women in thi Provi.r1ce.

I would like to ask the rrd.niste 1 co uJ. d he t-. e l.l. th e H o u s e , o t' b r· in r any information to the House r:oncrH'n:i.rrg negot .. ial:i.ons IJJil ·.h thr federal government on propose ' ·i.ni.l ·.-i .• :\l:ivf:1S IJri.l:h UH:' pr·ovis i.on o child care services in thi Pr·ov·i .nct:1, .:md 1~1heUrer· Hw rni .ni.sb::1 is able to say that this Pr·ovi nc I·"~!; r.'l r: onruri . l:rne n 1: :i. n l·JrH tH.:>I.AJ dd }, care plan lo make monies availabl so Ural ·. l'lt>.IJ.I d.'l.y c.:u·e spaces IJJi.1 be created in the public sector? MR. SPEAKER: rhE:1 hon. I~ h e P r· e s i. d e n 1-. o f Ur Council. MR.

SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I respect th member's question and appreciat 'i. t. T know that he pr·obabl t hi n k s that I k now e v e r y t hi n No. 63 R3568

JUt thoge k:i nd~ of thing~, but l:ht:1 s pee i. f·i. c qw~~; t·i.on i. s tii<H't-:~ proper·l.y d:.i rec.:t.ed to my col1eague, l:hH M ·i.ni.sl:f:H ' of Soci .• ::~J. St-:H 'IJ"i.c:c.~!i (Mr. Tob:in), who ls r·er.pon~dble f o t' n ego l::i . a l: i. n g I~ hi . s p •H' U . c; 111. •H' matter·. So jf lhe hon. member does nol : rni.ncl, per·hap!i l::he Min:i ster of Socia] Services could answer? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Socia] Services. MR. TOBIN : Mr . Speaker, if I got the hon. member's question corr·ect .J.y, i. t relates to day care sec l::or· . in the public Mr . Speaker, negot-.

"i.ati .ons t.u:iH1 l-Jw feder·a] goul:!ntrnent . st.arted some 1-..i.tne ago and i:h1,1y ar·e ~ l:"i.J.l ongo :i rtg and ai this stage we are nol : i.n a sU ·.ual".i.on t·.o ~;.::~y r.tnyUl"i.n13 about. lt. MR. LONG : Mr ·. Sp!-)d k (,H '. MR . SPFni<FR : A supplernen L;u·y, l:hF.> hon . 1-.he mentbE:~r for St. John's Fast . MR. LONG : The Social Services Min:ister in hls portfolio has the responsibi1ity for child care. A month ago the federal m:inis ter res ponsib1e was here in the City of St.

John's and said 1-.ha t-. negot iations had been pretty well concl.uded with ·this Prov .ince but that he could not .'say anything or give an i.ndi.caf- .i.on of ~1hat might. happen :in th:i s Prouj nee, and that the pF.>opl e of New foundl.a.nd would have to get informa tj on from the Gouer•ntrlfHlL of Lht1 Proui.ncf'.!. . or day som'~ rnonl-.hs many p(~opl.t:1 carl:! C(lrrtmurd t.y haul:! 1.13 !)69 J IHH :1 2 ~ I t 9 8 8 ·i.n LhE-) bel:!n Uol. XL. wanting some jndjcatjon of where Hd ~; Pr ·otri .nc~-:1 ·i ·~ go:i.nq 1-:o HIOUE~ and whe ther we tl.d]J be able to accl:!ss f C~ d c-H' t'l 1. f I I 1'1 d S .

My que.s 1: i.on, Mr ·. !1peaker, i.s: Does this Province have a c:ornrni. brlf:1nl : undc.H' I: he new fede.r·al initiatives in child care to make provincial moni.t1S auai .1ab1e in t:he public sector as an indication of its cotrnni trnent to prou ide qua1i ty care instead of privatizing child care ·i.n the ful:ur·e :i.n this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon . Uw Minis l:er of Social Services. MR. TOBIN: Mr .

Speaker, I arn sure that the hon. gent] eman is aware that the pr'Of)()Sr~l. ft'Oifl Hte Feder·al government :involves both private dr:ty C•H'I-) oHld publ."i .c Cdt'l-) -sys te.tns and we are negotiating with lhe ft?.d iH'i:\} gOVf:H'I 'HTII:Hli: r.\S j_ I·: r·eJ.ates to the proposa] surroundjng day c d t' C) • MR . LONG: A f i. n a 1 s u p p 1 ~~ HIe n 1:-. •H' y , M r· . !) p e ij k e r· . MR. SPEAKER: A final. supplementary, ~he hon . the member for St. John's East . MR.

LONG : I would like to ask l:he Minister of Social Services why, jn v:iew of the stated commitment this government has to child care, this government has not taken action to bring in legislation to provide licenced day car·e for ch:ildr·en under two in th:is Provjnce, and ha~; aJ.l.Oillt?.d r:l s.itual·:ion 1.\Jhi.ch i.s quite dangerous to go on? MR. TOEHN: Mr· . 5p!·H-lker. No . ()3 R3.569

MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the M:inister· of Soc'i.aJ. c . ;.)ervJ.ces . MR. TOBTN : Mr. Speaker, we are addressing thai lssue as bJHl.l .. The hon. gentleman did not go on to say l:hal: t:he fi.r·sl: d.~y cat'!->. cenl:r',,1 rel~t.ed lp a public system in thjs P r· o v i. n c c~ l!la :; o fH->. n c->. d by UH:1 GouernmPnt. of Neu.•foundland and l.abrndor·. Tlri.s gOVfH'nnl!HlL, r'lr·. :1p!c1i'\kcc1t', br·ought i1·1 day car·e j n Ud s P r· o tJ i. n c e:1 , .::\ n tl · i 1: · i. s L h i ~; governmPnt that hos r·eally made a gredl : conl:r·-i.bul:ion l:o di.'ly cdr'tc1 ll<c!lnP..

As :it r·e~lates to the hon. gE~n l:l.t~mdn 1 s qu8!) 1: ion, tue t'(:1ril. i 11::1 t hcd ., Mr . Speaker. This aduli.nlsi:r'dl.·i.on Hlr:lde gr(~ril : 9•'\·ins i.n the past two year·s in day care, Mr. Speaker, ·i.n i.mplemenl:i.ng .it i.n lhe first jnstance. We realize that i.t is not perfect., .it . does not cover off everythj ng, but we are addressing the->. 1Mho1e i.ssue as it relates lo day care in this Province in the negoli.at ·Lons. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! The I. ·i.1ne For· Or'•'\ l Qt.1 o s l:.i. on s has e~J i:tpsed. MR. Wfl.I.S: A polnt. of order, Mr. Speaker. MR .

SPF:AKFR: f'l poi11t of order, the hon . t.he l.t~ d d f:H' 0 r UH-~ Op po ~;-i_ H .

C) n . MR. WELLS : Mr·. Speaker, there or lllr'\l ~l:0rs wh 'i.ch Quest:ion Period Uds r IMdnl· l·.o ro:l"i.se on order beci:tuse I 1..1.1ere a number rH ' ·j S f~ 0 1.1 "1: 0 f' morrd ng which l:hi.s po'i.nl : of believe the Official Opposi ti.on has be~en deprived of an appropriate L3570 June ~4. 1988 Vol XL opportunity to address a number of issues '"'~ri.ch ought to have bE:' r­ addressed, and I think nc properly so. The first matter I wish to address 1-.o Your Honour i. s l he ru J. i. ng Your Honour made with respect to the qtH~sl:i.on r.lsked by l:he hon. member for Gander (Mr.

Baker) of the Dt:1pui".y Pr'.,1Hii er·. The M·i.nisi:er of F:inance (Mr. Windsor) ]s not ir U11,1 H o 1 t ~; 1-:~ d n d UH) P r· 1-:1 rn i. e r i. s no t in lhe House. The question had t.c bn addt 'tc'!;snd, so l11c1 acldr~~ss::!cl i·:hE next dppropriale mjnJster, the Dt :1f>IJ ly Pt'l:1trri .~-:n· . Tn l:h1-) pr·oces s of addressing the question, hE III.,Hll-.i.nnr)d al.so i:h<.'\1.: l:he Oepu~ .:~ Premier was Minister of fjnance at l.ht~ l:i .lllt:1 IAth:~n 1-.ht:1 i.ssu1-) arose. Ht: wa s not as k i n g him a q u e s t ion b ~ r·t~dson of Hh~l-., i.t. IMdS ment-i.onec Jncidentally.

The question wa~ d:i.r·ec h~d to the Deputy Pr·ernier anc we are concerned about having ruli.ng on the record that in thE absence of the ministe : responsible, lhe PrE!rnier . questions cannot be addressed tc I: he Depu l~y Pr·enri .er·, H1a 1: I: hey are out . of order. I would ask Your Honour i.f you would r·ecc>rls ider that matter in the light of thosE ·comments and t:iddr·ess a r·esponse. There are two other points witl t'f:1 spec: 1: l:o i.l:. MR. SPEAKER: I t-.1-d nk maybe we should deal wi tl (: h i:-\ 1: p 0 i n ;-_ 0 f

l) Y' d CH' r -j_ Y' ~; l· .. MR. WF.L.L.S: I hdve no problem with thdt.. The ' [ ha tJf:~ hAlO o HH?.r' s , Your H o noiJ r . MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, to that point o· l)t'ClrH'. Ftrst or all, i.t- . Js pr·etty obviou · there is no point of order. T' No . 6 3 R3570

.-,. Leader of t.h~ Oppos i t.ion is s:i.wpJ.y nol: h·:lPPY 1.1ri .l:h l:h~:1 r'tll.i.ng Your Honour· gave and there "is a pr·oc:Ps!; ·i.f onE:1 ·i.!; nol : hr.lppy, ·i.r h~-:~ fE:~P.ls si r·ongl.y about :it, he can l·.akc:~ ol ·.her· ac:l:i .on. Th;.~l: ·i.!> not-. r· P. J P. u ant . J t i s not appro prj at. e t o r· .:; i. s 1:1 i. i: d s i:l p o i. n L o f o r' d e r , to waste ihe time of the House. Fuer·ybody knotJ.IS i.l: is Hw ~peaker 1 s responsibility to i.nterpret the ruJ.,~s. Thr.ll : i.s all the Speaker of the House does.

Now, if he interprets in such a 1/Jay tha 1-. you or 1 do not 1 ike i. t, then that is too bad. That is the Speaker" 1 s job. Hts job is to :interpret the rules. It is tit for tat. Ther•e have betHl occasions in the past, on the other side, when tAle have not been happy with the rulings, but we certr.ltnJ.y do not ri .se on i:\ poi.nL of order after the fact, thirty ndnul:es l..:ti".er· and t:r·y and bri .ng :i.l : to t.he House 1 s attention. Tltat :is a dd.J.d ·i.sh HIOVt~ for· l:hH l.l~dd~n· of tl1e OppositJon to be taking. MR . wrus : To Ulc:tl:, Your · Horll)tlr' . MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Oppos i l.i .on . MR. WF.:I.LS : The brief reply is simply this, Your Honour. 1t is entirely appropriate and proper to raise it. on a point of order after Question Period, which is what I have done, to give Your Honour a chance to - MR. SIMMS: I IAJou] d J ike to reply briefly to t.hat. SOMf HON. MF.MBF.:RS: ~it d oum 1 boy , 1 sit down ! MR . WfLLS: l.3r>71 J IHH·~ ~ •l , 1 9 8 8 Vol. XI . When J am ftnished . MR. SIMMS: On Ud!; po.inl- .? MR . WELLS: Yes!

It is ent:ireJy a~propriate, Your Honour·, for· sornl:!body from l:he Opposition to raise the point r.lfh~r· l:he QuC:!st.ion Per·.iod so as not to take up the time of· Quest-: ·i.on Period. If there is a matter we feel may not have been handled quite correctly, the appropriate way is to ask Your HorHHIY' to re consider· the ·1 s sue and then Your Honour can make an appropri.ate ruling. That is a normal procedure. MR. SPEAKFR: Th1~ hon . l:h1~ President: of the Counci] . MR. SIMMS: Hl i:l 1·. ·i.!; .:~ b s

I) l.u l".c:1 t'l.l b b i. s h I o:l b s I) 1 u t. e nonsense! It is never done in lhe H I) 1.1 !) ~~ ' I~ I h 0 r· 1-:~ y

I) II ol s k L h 1-;~ s p e ·~ k e r lo reconsider his ruJing. How s·illy .:;nd how foolish cdn you gel! Fir~t. of aJ], the M:.injster· of H~-:~al.l:h (Dr·. Colli .ns), i.n his capacity as Deputy Premier, did r'{:1Spond l:o 1-.he ques 1: ions. That i.s number one. MR. WELLS: It I.IJas ruled ou 1-: of order by the Speaker. MR. SIMMS : I t IJ.Id. s on 1: he t hi r· d o c cas i. on and that is fine. That is the Spea.ker·•s right, Js i.t not? That is not the right of the Leader of the Opposi~ion to tnterpret the rules, it is up to the Speaker.

T h c:l 1: i. $ I~ I h a 1: he i. s he r e f 0 r . s 0 I j t is absolute rubbish, abs o] ute n o n s e n s .-~ , M r· . :1 p e .:t k e r , w h a t t: h e Leader of the Opposi tj on j s No. (j:J R3r)71

saying . 1 t l s n o t a p p r· o p r i a 1.: <-?. t o r <.'1 .is ~' a poj nt of order thirty minutes later. You are suppose to rai.se a point of order at the time that the breach of ordtH' occurs and a poit1t of order has to do with the r u 1 E~ s of t-. h'"' H o u s e , the ope r· a 1-. i. on s of the House. This is not a point of or d (?.f' or· no t hi. n g 1.i k e i. l , M r· . Speak~r. Jt is absolute nonsense! MR. ~IPfAI<r:R: l .:-1111 quih:' pr·c,,p. ::wc~d to r·11l;~ on t hat p o :i n t of o r-ei E.~ r r· <.d s E:! d by t he I. l:1 ad CO! r· of I l·w 0 p p o ~d 1: i o n . r~R.

SIMW3 : Yes, make a r·uJing on :it, Str· . MR. SPFAI<FR: Ttw l .. t'<:ld Hr q u :i. t. e r i g h t. , 'i. :> oF i:hE:' Oppos·i .L·i.on th~t :if a rninistE:!r is not pr'Hs c-?.n 1·., directed to d lhe Act i.ng that. . Pr·euder, ques 1: ·ion Pr·emi er and I can or be~ the accept In th:is particular case, the han. l he M i. n l s t e r· o F H e al. t h ( [) r .

Co 11 i n s ) · a s , I p r· e s u me , A c t i n g Prem'i.er·, did r·e:1spond to l'.:hi:lt. and he did say that he was going to pass the 'i.nfor·tnal-: lon on t-.o the Minister of Finance, and he ans•~er·ed a subsc-?.quent quest"i.on, tF my memory Js correct. There was a Final quesl-:ion dealing r.pedfica1ly ~~jlh sales tax wh:ich UH:1 hon. rnini.s l:er· hr'ld alr·e.::~dy sA i.d h E:l loll as go :i. n g t o pas s on to i. he Mi n:i. s l.CcH' 0 r r·i. l'lr'lrl Cl-~. [ r (-) 11: for· i'ltai r·e~son t:he question was out 0 r 0 t' d (H' , i.Hl c:f ( S 0 t' U l. ~~ d . So t.here :is no po:in1 of order. MR.

WFI.I.S: Mr·. Speetker, 1 he oHter point I wi. s h 1-.o Hid k e, hdv i ng be:~f>.n successful on that po:int - L3572 June 24, 1988 Vol XI. MR. TOBIN: He sa]d there> u .. 1a s no point c ordc-?.r! DR. COLLINS : Beauty is in the eye of the bt3.ho1der·. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, we sau.J another abuse hc~r·r~ Uds monli.ng when thls staged question, I agree members on the gotH"lrnrnf:'nt si.dl:1 hdve a r·i.ght t:o rise ~nd ask a mjnister a qa11~ ~; ·l:·i.on . ll11l: t.~olhr.~ 1: hdpperwd Ud s mortd ng was the minister had Ci ~; 1: d h~ llllcHl L 11 c,~ l.~ol'i . ·; h 1-:~ c:l

h) Hkl k c>. , and it ought. to have made it :in the l'or·m or~~ rHnisl:er·i.al Sl:al- .ernent instead of l~kj ng up t.he bme of l.llt~ Ho11~;8 dur·i.ng Or·;~J QtJesti.or period, which as Your Honour ha" ;:~ l. r· f:~ '" cl y p r· tw .i. o u s 1 y r· u l t3. d , o u g h t t c be reserved to allow the Oppos ·i.J:ion si.dc>. or i:he House tc ask questions. I point out too, Your Honour, tha · so far thi.s morni.ng the OfF .ic'ia .. Opposition with fifteen member~ got-. to ask l:hr·ef:~ quest.i .ons. ThE NDP got to ask two, with just twc members, and t. he go v er· n111e nt: sidE got to ask one.

That is whai happened l:h'i.s morning, and 1 suggest to Your Honour that ts ar inapproprial-:e result of what ha! been happening and I ask Your H on o u t' 1-. o t' e c on s i. d :>. r t he appro a c h . MR. BAIRD: r., r· . ~) p e ;~ k e t' , 1: o t h f:1 p o .i. n 1: oF or· de r· r.IIR . SPEAKER: To thai. point of order, the hon U11c1 nH:1tlllwr· for· lltltnbet' Wf:1S 1:. MR. RAIRD: r Ud n k l h ~ t i s r i d j c u J o u s t hi · morrl'i.ng, Mr· . Spe:1akc~r·. Is Uu Leader of the Opposi U on no · i n hcH' c>. s L t1 c:l 'i. n · L he 1 i v e 1 t hood o I these people •~here their j o~ No. 63 R3 572

Juld be affected wjth the CNR? I di .d not. kno''' about any nu~el ·.:i.ng this mornJng. I w~s at a Treasury R o cH' d nllH:' 1: i. n 9 at e i. g h 1: o 1 c l.o c k . litE:~ hun. rnPmber for· LaPolle had to l. (~ i'\1) f:~ b 1->. c c:ll ~ s f:~ he h ·~" d (:

C) g () 1:

I) a rnEHd.lng Jn Port. aux Rasque~ and he dsk~>.d rut:~ ·i.f r ,,,oul.d i.i~>k Ult:~ qu0.sUon. That. is noi s-taged, S i.r·. Wt-~ SfH>.nt a rull. t./.lt:~ek on CNR t liJ:. 1ueP.k and no-t once d:id we haue a ques 1: i.on on l:h~-:1 t~rnployt:H~s. fl11. Ill£.~ IIE!ctr·d abou-t~. was maintenance and more mai.ntenance. Ridiculous! SOME HON. MEMBF.RS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, there is no p o i. n t of or· de r· . T t has b f~ t:Hl established here on many, many occc\s i.ons thai~. quest.i.on Li.rne ·i.s not confined completely to hon. member·s on rny r·.i.ght..

In no ,,,a,y would l condone an abuse of that, and ol IJ.JhoJ.e SlH' i.E>.S or ques 1-. i.ons I..Uou]d be asked by hon. members on my 1efl-.. In fact-., t·.ha-1: uer·y, IJcH'Y r.E~] dam hi:lppens . Now, the hon . member mentj oned about: 1--.tJ.JO tfH:!InlHcH':i fr·orn UH:~ p.u·l·.y ort t.he far r:i ght . They are perfc->.cl.l.y ent: ·i.l.l.c-'!d l:o .:isk t-.1110 ques-t .Jons and I can alJow that, bul: lOo:lybe 1ny trJ(:~IrlOf'Y dot:~S not ·. Sf:H'Ut:~ mCc! cor-rE-!c:t] y. I do nol remember recogni.zing the hon. member ror Me nihE:~k (Mr. Fenwick) this 1norning, did 1? SOMF HON. MEMBfRS: Yes, Sir. MR.

SPEAKER : I certainly would not haue r·ecogn ized the hon . 1ne111ber for St. John 1 s East. My memory must be a bi.t lapse this morni.ng. Tt certainly was not intentional. MR. LONG : l3S73 June .?4, 1988 Vol XL A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR . SPFAKF.R: nw h 0 rl . nJ (~ nJ b I:! r• r

I) r• ~) [: . J 0 h rJ I S Fetst. MR. LONG: Y 1-:~ s , M r· . S p t:~ a !< e r· , tn y p o i. n t. of or·der concerns your statements ,,,. i. I: h r· f~ s p e c: 1: 1: o Uw i. s s u e of recognizing members from t.he third p a r· 1: y . ( a. rn j u s 1: c o n c e nw d t h a t: you seem to haue established a pr·eced0nl: t:h.~-1: 1.1o1c~ t..ui .11 not be recognized more than once in que s U .on peri .od. I would beg to point out that there haue been question periods this Session in which we were not recognized al al.1.

My memory is that today was the second day out or s.ixt~y-I:JAJo ddys ,,~.,hen we were giuen each a question in question per·'i.od. So, H-. i.s not as though we haue two questions uery often . In f,';l c: 1:, mos 1: d.~y s we agree and we are happy to haue one question in qUC?.!;I-.i .on p~-:H··i.od, but·. I would be concerned that we wou1d be pt'I?.Vf:Hll:t:~d fr•nm hdiJi.ng HIOrE-~ th~n onE:! by lhe comrr:onls the SpC:!aker jtJ!>I: tnddc~. t:~sp~~d.<.il.l.y 1~o1hen i-.here ar'C:! no oi. hE:!r member·s of the orr i.c-i..:'ll Oppos ·i.t- . i.on sh3nd.ing.

The Speaker is obliged lo recognize l:ht-~ only s l:and i.ng per·sc>rl t..u'i. th a question. MR. SPEAKER : Or·der, please! There is no point of order. I am just t..uonder·ing .i.f the hon. member would like me to do away with that precedent and poss:ib1y h:is member·s would not be recognized at all on a particular day. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! No. 63 R3573

Petitions MR. rUREY: Mr. Speab:n·. MR. SPEAKER: The han. lhe member for St. Barbe. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: Mr·. Speaker, I want lo rise for a couple of rrdnul·:0.s to pr·es~ml: J-.o the Hous~ a pE:~t:iUon from a couple of hu nd r· (~ d P'~ op 1. t:' fr· ou1 Uu~ dj str:i ct of Si . Barbfl. Il does nol: d,~.~l ud.l.:h UH:~ D.:-l.ni.:~l.s H&.n·botJr' mJ ttE>. . T no"\ ice t:h~ Mird stl':!r of M·i.n''!S 1 (Mr·. D'inn) ·inl".l~r·jecl:i.on . Mr·. Sp1~aknr·, d ntrlllbr)t' or peopl.r.' from t.lr(->. com111urd U es of St.

Rar·be, F o r· f-) s 1". e r'!; P o i n l: , R 1. r:\ c k D IJ c k Co v t:~ , Pl unt Po:i nt, Pond Cove.., Anchor· p () i. n 1. • Fll. II r.1 c 0 v l:1 I oHH:I .i n d r.1 Co1 d Uw Floc.ue..rs Cove arei:l, have asked me ad u r· 0. s s Uli . s p e 1". ·i I· i. o n r.o~Ji. l·. h r· t1 s p t:1 c 1-. to the regional waste disposal slte. I hauf~ not.i.fled 1-.hc~ Minister of Environment (Mr. R u s s e ll ) p r· i. o r· t o Q u e s t i o n P e r· i o d , Mr. Speaker, I would be tabljng th-is pettti .on and asked hirn l:o respond in kind. Mr . Speaker, this petition, addressed to this hon.

House, deals basically with the oppositlon, and the strong oppos j lion I should poj nt out, to the deci.s i.on m.~de by government : 1·.1) a p p r· o v e "\. hE:! wa s t e d i s p o s a J s i t e known .~s l:h~ Sl:t'd.H: or Rel.l.c~ Tsl.r>. Wasi .e Disposal Site; although :il s pi . 1 1. :; o tHH' i. n l: o b o 1: h d : i. s l r· i. c 1·. ~; , t he S tr· cd '1. of A e l.J e I s 1 e and t he Nor·Uwr·n l:·i.p of t:ht:1 d·i.sl:r·i .cl : or St. Rarbe. Mr. Speaker, we are 1.0:1.l.k i.ng spr-:1d.ri.c .. 1l.l.y ~boul·. c:Cc!rU .f:ic:aiP. approval No. W.M.S. R'l · 03 0 1..?..

L.31=l74 June 24, l 988 Vol XL W h d 1·: 1: h e p e o p 1. e i.H' t~ b a s i. c ,iJ1 y saying, Mr. Speaker, are a num!::, :- o f p o "i. n t s . The f ·i. r· s 1-. be :i. n g u· · nobody in the d:istrict of St. Rarbe I have encountered is against the very progressive idea oF shared regional services. Nobody is against this kind of regionalism, sharing regional services. In fact, Mr. Speaker, tF we could apply that across the municipal sector in the district oF S 1:.

Aarbe, tAle would be tJ.Jay ahead because we t.uould have more u s e s o f f i. r· c~ l~ r· u c k s .:~ n d e q u ·i. p me n t , more uses of recreational centre~ a n d r:'\ 1. l H1 t:1 s ,.~ k i. n d s o r I: h i. n g s . So nobody, T '''i:Hll: l:o Si:lY clear·l.~ in the bE!

g) nning of th:i s petition, nobody objor:Ls, or· i:ll: l.E1ast. nobod~ I have encountered in t:he distd ct of Si :. Rar·b1-), objE~c:t: ~; l:o tht' concept of regional government anc s h a r· e cl r· '"'' g :i. on d 1 s 1-:1 t' v i c ~~ s . l1ul: ·i.n UJ"i.!; par·l- :i.cul.ar· i.nstance, Mr. Speaker, what we see th :, s l: r· 1-:1 n u o us a ncl s l: r· on g o b j e c l: i. on h :is the actual, physjcal . geographic placi.ng oF the wastE disposal site for thesE cormnuntt:ies to shar·e . Th"i~ particular site, Mr.

Speaker, :i~ s q u a r e 1. y i. n t h e 1:. mu n o r• n e a r· t h E town, on the border of the town o1 St.. B·irbH, a ver·y small tou.m Hon . members will know from their ot.un experiences of tr·avelling LhE Northern Pentns ula, the town spt:1ak oF, Sl·:. Rarbe, ts the arei that connects Labrador to thr Tsl.rHld or Ne~1Foundland, St. Rarb1 and BJanc Sablon. So, right on the edge of t.hal tow1 l:ht:1Y iH't:1 propo!; i.ng l:o pu L a t..uas h d:i sposal si le to carry a] 1 of th ' IJ.li:lS l.agc-~ or n.l.l. or l:hn COliiHlUni 1-. .ies Mr. Speaker, between the Norther' ! r: 0 HIIIIIJ n i . 1: "i. (~1 :; 0 r F 1.

Ol~ll=! r· s c 0 v e descend:ing Sout.h a11 the t.uay f., Plum Po "i. n 1·.. So HHH'e i. s No. 63 R3574 ·

Lgn.Lficdnt number of these communi i ies Lllhich are goj ng to be collec l.i.ng t:hc;! Lr oaAJn l.llas ~·.age and car·r·y:i rag them to one place on the edg~-:1 or l":lw To1.1m or Sl:. AadH~. The problem is, Mr. Spedker, t hreE-!fol d. Number one, the people .u·e s.~yi.ng o:~nd 1-he rni .rl"i .sl:C:!t' u.ri .l.l. kno1.11 thJ s from the correspondence h~-:1 has had rn>ru a niJinb~-:H' oF ccHar.P.r'nP.d c:j t:izens, number· one, H1ey jusl: ·i.s nol·. ~-:1nough or· suff:ic:Jettt . fiJJ in this particular· ;u·ea 1-".he gover·nnu~nt hds desi.gnai :Hd for proper burying of the l.lldstage. So, Mr.

Speaker, if lhE:1re is taot enough f·l]J, just i.rnr.lglne l:he heall:h hazar·ds l.dhi.ch are going to come about as a direct result of not belng able to bury this garbage and this l.llastage proper·l.y. So number one, Mr. Speaker, there is not proper fill, and a d ir· e c t. c on s e q u en c e of t: hat wjll be ~ealth hazards Lllith the rats and those kinds of things. The hon. member for RelJ evue (Mr. C a 11. an ) l.liO u 1 d r· e cog n i z e 1: hat. , T a rn sure. Mr. Speaker, aJl those k i. n d s o f t h .i. n g s iH' ·~ g o i. n g I·. o b 1:1 •:l r.:ign:ific:.ant : probJern.

The health hr.lL o:l r•d S l.llh "i. C h d ·i. r•o C 1: J.y u.ri. J.l. bn o:l c:orasE:!qU£-!tace of not having proper ri.l.l. bli.l.l. cr·e,:ll:t-) l:hese ho.~-ll.l:h problemr.. Th(~ s~-:1c:ond iJJ"i.ng, Mr·. Speakfn·, ·h t h".i s wa !d. e d J s p o s a1 p r· o posed site bor·der·~; r·ighi: behi.nd i.l: on u1hai : ·i.s r. a 1 J e d East River . N ol.ll, the M i .n i . s 1: f:1 r· oF t: he f nv -i. r·onrne n 1:, u1ho j s ver·y environmentally conscious, Mr.

Speaker, and l.llho i.s very proud of the env:i ronment : and who l.llants to protect and conserve and do everything in his power to ensure the env lronment is a clean one a·nd lhat it Llli]l be passed on to Future generations in a proper l.llay, he Lllill know, Mr. Speaker, that the East River ·is now currently a l.llonderfu], beautiful, L357S June 2~. 1988 Vol XL. cr·ys tal clean Norther·n r·i.vP.r' rAJh:i .ch flol.lls behind t.he community of St. RoH'be. Whr :-1 ~- .is go·i. ng l:o happen, Mr.

Speaker, is t.he local peopJ.e, .:~ n d i" 1·1 ~~ 1J 1··. h n 111 s t~ 1. u e:~ s k n 01~1 1: h a 1-. they stated it clearly jn their pr:1i:·i.t ·i.on l:o U11-:1 hon. House ·· i.s t. he dr·a:i nage LllilJ. come from the IJ,Jo~ ~; 1: f:1 c:l "i !) pI) s a l. s . i. l: f:~ t' i g h t: i. n ~~ 0 that r:i ver. So Lllhat. Llle dre tak:i.ng j_ !) I":J~JI-:11. VI) 0 t' f ·i. f l:c:~ (~ 1'1 C () RIIOU rJ"i 1: i.e 5 garbage, dumpj ng j t. on the corner of i:ht~ I:OI.lll'l or ~H:.

Aar·bc~ I I:: he garbage LlJjll seep dol.lln jnlo the twdr·or:k, l:ht:1 dr·:l ·i.ndge 1.1d.l.l go off into the river knol.lln as East R i . v e r· , p o 1-. en 1: i. ally k i.J.l. ·l n g a 1.1 l he natural habitat there, potentially des l:roying, Mr·. Speaker, by conclusion, all of the rich, clean and aAJonder·Ful envi.r·onment that is right behind it. So, Mr. Speaker, in conclusion let me say that nobody in St. Barbe I have encountered is against coll.ec l·:i.ve regional servi.ce. Thi.s is a good idea. There j s no quesi:i.on iibout. it . The mi.n:i.ster· js on the right track.

It is abs o lu 1-.81. y l·.hn r·i.g h 1-. l.lli:l y t.o go to share services. But, l.lle just question Js this p • .u·t ·i. c 1~ l.oH' p·i. e c 1-:1 of g eog t'olphy, Mr. Speaker, the proper place t.o put Uds par· I: i.t:ul..u· l.llo'lS l:t:~ d·i.sposal s·i.t.e. T h r· 0. 1-:1 h u n d r c~ d p eo p 18 do not 1-. hi n k so, this member does not think so, .:~nd ( •~•ould ask l:he nt:i.n .i.ster· to have senior officials from hjs off .i c: ~~ her· c;! i. n ::> 1:. • John ' s to perhaps reviel.ll the sjtuation. I knol.ll Cor·ner Rrook has, maybe St. John's would. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . MR. RUSSELL: Mr . Speaker.

No. 63 R3575

MR. SPFAKFR: T h r~ h o n . I: h 1-) M i. n i. s hH' o r F..11uironment. and lands. MR. RUS~Ifl L. : M r . S p e a k e r· . I am p 1 e a s e d l~.o b t~ able lo respond to the hon. the member· for St. Bar·be and to his peti lion. There are a number of po ·i.nts perhaps, Mr. Speaker, .if I were in your seat, I t.uould haue to rul.P it l.~oJould be a d.lfference of opjnion between two hon . members. Mr. Speaker, the proposed site for this waste disposal si.te has caused some controversy, as the hon . mewber· hcts ·i.ndi.cal":ed. II- . goes b a c k , M r· .

Speak e r , t. o s e u era J mont·.hs ago .:-tnd I ho.iur~ had soute ccH-r-e s po ndE:~ n c e fr·om peop 1 e d ot.un t: h ~-~ r· ~~~ r:l n cl r· e s p () n d I-'! d i·.o HH:"! m i. n wr·:i t:i ng iind :in oi her ways as I •~ri. 1.1 .:~ll.IJ d ~-~ I: o .i. n r.l f ::"!t~J mi. n '' 1: n !i . r~r·. ~1PH·~~kf:H', l".hi:'J i.dl~i:ll. !di:U·:lL·i.on pN·haps t.hr·oughout ·, not on] y t.he SL. A.u·b~-:~ ;n·r ~d, b11l· . l:he Pr'olJ"i .nct:~ g E-! rJE:~ r· a 1 J y , i s t: o h a v e reg j o n a 1 l~JdS 1:(~ dispos •. d .

S i l".es i.n!; [-.er:-ld or hcw"lng OIIE:! in euery 1itlle c oJnlllu n i. 1". y , so i·: o s FH~h~ k . M r . S p e i:l k e r· , off l c i ctl. s i. n 111 y department have tried unsuccessfully to develop a regional waste disposal area in t h l s ~rea . Contra r· y to w h a t t. he hon. member has said, there has not been t.he k.i.nd of cooperat .ion we wou1d have liked for the regional. waste disposal site. Mr·. Spec3kr:H', H1e hon. member·, r.\S r understood him at. ·least, referred l··.o Ul'i .s pr·oposecl . s i.l:<:1 dS r.l Jandfil1 s"iie. That. :is only p a r· 1.1. y c o t' r· e c 1: , r-1 r· .

S p l:h'l. k l:H' . T I w r·pa] :intent:ion of this si te is to br~ ·i.nc i.rwr'•:l l:cn• ~d 1·.1'!. Tn l·.h~-:~ :itdf!r•:i.nr, urd:lJ the :itrcinP.rat.or· is consi ·.r·Ltch~cl Uwr·e, Htt:H'c~~ ~ri.l.l be !:onr~·! lctndf:il] t.iikE~ p] acE-!. 1.1 ~i 76 JUIW :?.lJ., 1988 Vol. XI . The hon . member and other han. llH:~Illb0t'S I t arn :-; "r ···~ ' r:l.r't:"! i:li.I.JrH'P. of the advantages of an incinerat e· si .l.l-'! as oppos:~d :o d landfill. sit :·· in that there is not as much arec; r~:~quin'd .:~rtd you can landfill t.he ash certainly in a smal1er area than the regular landfill site. So, Mr.

Sper~k~r. we i.ssued a certificate of approva1 for the si.b:1 the hon. metnber· refer·s to ana he is quite correct in saying the p e o p l. e i. n t h e a r· e a a r· t:1 no t h a p p y and have put forth some ar·gument: r.uhy t·.hey rN~l thi.s sib>. ·i.s not suitable. Mr. Speaker, off"lcials in m~ df>.pru·l:rnnnl:, i.n fact, my pr·edecessor himself uisited the s·i.h>. 1dsl-. yt:~rH' c:~ncl looked at UJE location we were suggesting . Of r·i. c i .• :-l 1 :; ·i. n tlly d c~ P•H'I :TIIf:Hl 1: a nc at her· departments, Mr·. Speaker, h;.we ;~l.:;o l.oob>.d r:ll". i.l"..

In facl·., we had officials from Fiiher:ie! .. -lnd Ocl>.r'lns look i:d: I·Jn~ possibl.~ concerns related lo the salrnor r· i. v e r· s .i. n t: h l:! d r· e ;~ there are really no dnd 1-.hey sa i.t pr·oblems there Contrary, also, to what the han me m b e r i. n d J c a t:. e d - 1 d HI t ~ k .i. n g t h ~ word of engineers and officials jr my department who looked at thE site, and they have told me th1 dra i.nage fr·om Lhe s"l t:e :is toward! the West River, approximateJ.y 1. 1 kilometers aw~y. and not toward~ the East River.

Now, tha· i.nfor·rn~l :i.on has been passed on b me by officials who, I believ1 r· e •:1 l 1 y , o r· ·l t J. e a s 1: I h a v e h be] ieue what they are telling m1 i. s c o r· r· t>. c I: . Onr>. or l.h~-:1 oi-.hr~r· concF>.r'ns l··.he hon nrember· ment j oned, and certain] . l·.ht:~ f>OOplt:1 dOIAitl l:h~>.t'f~ hdVI men t:io nE~d, is the cornrni t t.ee di1 nol: hr'l.Ut:~ iJJI-) pt'OFHH' f:~qui .pnH>.nl·. h landf]1J the site. Again, I hau ' No. 63 R3576

""en told there is a tractor and the committee i.s r·easonably tdell off, as committees go, from a f.i.nanc.i.r:tl vi.et~Jpoinl : ·i.n t:et'HJS of bej ng able to fj nancially 1 ook a f L e r· the d u lfiP s i. Lf· ) i. n Ud . s 111o :~ y . So t.hey have met the gu:i del:i nes, M r· . s p (~ d k e r· I I!J E:1 h d

l) e l. I) 0 k (~' d r

I) r· I i:l!'l o~po~~d t.o other · sH .es Jooked o:'l.l-. i.n l·.hE:1 dt'ei!\ I!Jh"i.1:h rl'i.cl tlOI: mnel: the c:r·li ~r:i a . T 1-.h·i.nk 1 Mr· . Spl~.:~kc~H·, I!Jhi~l: Iolii~ hi.WO hfH'e r·~ally j s i.he old NJMRY syndt'Oln1~ 1 l:h;:li: (~Wt:H'ybody l!li.UJI:~; i!\ dump site, but . not. :in my backyard k'i.nd or l:hi .ng. A~; I·Jw hon. fllt~mbl ;!t' kno1.41s, t.hE~ peopJ e down lhE:!r~ r·c~q1.1es h:~d thai: somebody fr·orn my d~partn1ent here j n St. John 1 s the hon . member made sonH~ r~presentation in that area as well vi .sit l:he111. I had that- . done, Mr. Speaker.

There was an official From my depar·trnent do1~om there approximately two weeks ago, I belleve, and had i:l mee 1:: i.ng wi . t.h the peopJ e down there . I under·s hH!d the rm~e U . ng did no t go except :ionally we 11. But I did haue somebody else go dot~om ther'E:1 from my department to take another look r:tl ·: i.t. Thr:ll: 11Jas dorw .~ncl ht-) has come back. I have not seen hi .m. T. ho:-\Vf:~ o'l!ikC~H:I hi.m 1":0 gi.Vt1 fllt1 a short . wri tt.en reporl of hi!> vi .si .l: t:hC?.t'l-) . r have noi : Sf-)IHJ UJi .~l : y r-d . , be c au s ~ h ~ :i s a 1 s o b u s y at ot:her· l:h"i.rl\j !>. Mr·.

Speaker, T. uJoul.d l.tke l:o bt1 abl ~ to say we IAil 11 look again at o.HIO 1-.hf:H' S i.l·.e. 1 do I'IOi: l:hi.nk T. can say t.hat :in aJl trut .hfulness, M r· . !'3 p e a k e r· , b E~ c .~ u s e:1 · l d o n o t: think therE:! is another site there as good as 1: he orH ~ t.ue have nm~o1 ~ven. Maybe the one we have now is not everything we would like for it to be, but I think it is the best that. we can find at-. t.he present I 3 577 June 24, 1988 Vol XL time. So, I think we are going to hr'lVe to go ahe:'.:l.d 1.o~J:i.l:h thts site.

It wi 11 be an inc in erato r site as oppos~~d l·o i:l l.i:l.ndfi .ll si .te, and there are some advantages to that. Thank you, Mr·. Speaker . MR. DfCKfR : r-~r . Spoak•n· . MR . SPFAKER: Thn hon. l:ht1 rnernbe:n· f"M· t:ht1 !~1-:r·a.i t of Belle Isle. MR. DfCKER: M r· . ~~ p 1:1 d k f:H' , I I!JoHJ 1-. 1-. o s u p p o r t this part:icuJar petition. First I would be remiss, though, i. f I di.d no 1: c ornp 1 i.me nt the member· for St. Barbe for the contribution and i-.he concer·n he shows in this particular matter.

I know it has been a concern for him for some time and he has been doing a lot t o h e 1. p r e s o 1 v e t h e ·i. s s u e . nlso, I would Like to co111pliment the previous Minister of Environment who took a very active role in this problem on the No r 1-: h A r· n P e rJ'i. n s u 1. c'\ I M r . S p e a k e r· . I. can certainly state he did take UJE:1 t:·i.nJt:1 l:o ~o up t:o Flou1er 1 s Cove and I want to pubJ j ely thank him rot' ma k i. n g U!i.~ 1: IJ'i . s :i. 1: . Mr. Speaker, Environment 1-. h~) ho n. taJks Mi.n ·ister of aboul the in ci. n •-n· i.~ h>r· s i. 1:1:1 . No1~o1, Hw rne mb c~ r for St.

Rarbe knows there :is going l:o b~-:1 an i.ncini-H'CJ.i :or·. WF:1 all knm.u there j s going lo be an i.nc:i.ner·ab>r·. R11i: l.:he problem which the minister may not be aware or is thai: those incinerators do have garbage left over· . Tho s e i. n c i. n era t-. or· s are not like the furnaces the Nazis use in Ger·many. They do not. not pr·ou:ide a total solution . No. 63 R3577

( hdu~-:~ noi: yei: s~-:~f-Hl an i.nci.n~-:H'aLrn· !; :i 1 P t.IJ h :i r. It i 5 p E:~ r f e c t J y c 1 e iHl . I f •Hl i.nc: i.net'i .~For · is go i.ng l:o be on i:\ btdd r·oc:k, ther·P. has to be pr·ou i.s i.on Hlr.lde l:o r·emovc:! U1~-: ~ Clf.lle~. to r·emoue the garbC:Ige which i. s no L b LH' n L . The r· e i. s d l. o t. o f gC:IrbC:Ige which goe:. in, such as bot :tl.c,~s and i': i.n cans, tJJhic:h cannot be burnt. Now, what the people in St.

Barbe ar·e CtHlC:tH'rH~d dboul:: i.s that the residue from this i. n c i. n erato r· .i. s e i. l:: her· c a r· r i. e d aLJ.Ja y - if the minister wants to freight Lt cl.tJJay, that 'is no pr·obl.em - or there has to be sufficient land ·-fill to make sur ·e t.:hat Uli:lt is a C'Jean site. Mr· . Speaker·, one of Hw major proble.~nts on t ~H:~ Great Northern PC: ~ni .nstllr:\, c1nd T. t.r.Joul.d thi.nk 'i.n o 1 h EH' p a r· t s of l he Pro u i n c e a s bJe l.l., i.s UH~ ey~-: ~sor'H l:.hal : l".hos~-:~ dtJntp!; are CC:Ill!dng. Jt '.is t:otal1y u n b t-:' l. i ~~ u .:~ b l. <,' . rta .~ G t' t-~ a 1'.

No r· 1: h e t' n P<·Hdnsula, Mr· . Speaker, is t.he mosL i.mpor·LrHlL Lo ur·ist St,~c:Li .on or NP-wfoundJ Clnd i.ind LC:Ibrador· t:odC:Iy, •Hld 1-.h~H·~-:~ i.s no l:h i.ng 111ot·sn lor· u :i. !d t: or · s i. o Hd s Province t h tHl L o h <.'! u c'! 1: o J r· i. 'H~ 1 1 p HH:' P c,Hd. n s u l. a d i 1 d Jook a1 l.hE:! Jurnp jn Hat.ukes Ray, which i.s OiH :~ of Uw bel· .l-.f:n· du111ps on t: he Nor· t he r n P e n i n s u l a , i t a t l.or\sl : has a fence i.n fr·ont of i.t.

At cer·tain times during the year, t.uhen lhe IJ.Jlnd b1ot.us across fr•otn our side of the Peninsula, the garbagE:~ i.s bl.o•.un across the r·oad. I can say that is happening in Flowers Coue, the one whlch is about to be closed up, and it is also happening in Anchor Po int, wh ich we hope will be closed up. Get tj ng away from this particular reg i. on o r· ;u· ~~ d and go i. n g o n u p L o the V:.i king site, just South of the V i. k i. n g s ·i. 1: o , M r· . S p f:~ r.\ k c r , 1·: h c,H' <:~ i. ~; a g a r· b i:t g P. d urn p lJJ lri c h j s a t: o i i:t 1 E:'Yf~SOr'f~.

JU!) L Rodd:i c l<t on :is I:> 0 t:I4H:~ c~ n UlE-! B:idP 1.1 S78 .June~ ?.4·, 1988 Fnglf:~~-:~ r:lnrl Arm dump, Vol. XI . tJ.Jhi.c:h ·is i'l l:oLi:\1. c~y~-:~sor·c,~. The problem has to b~ ;:-ddr·essed and , J b () 1. i, (.,~ lJ f:' I 1. h c·) o n i y , ... , d y I: o ad cl r· e s · :it is to haue reg:iona = i. n c: i. t·w r· d. 1: o r· ~; . 1\J n L4J , Hw p e o p 1 e o f St. Barbe ar·e complaining, and they dr'c '! conc:er·ned about a dump going on t.heir site, and the m i. n 'i. s L e r r11 r.t k e s 1 :i. g h t o f t h a t , h e called it a 'Newfie Syndrome, • I beli.eue. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The han. the Minister of the En u i. r· o nrne n t-.. MR. RUSSELL: r.llr·. ~-)pedkcH', i-.h •. d·. is not tJJhat t s aid . I s aid i t wa s the N I M R Y syndr·oulf:~, nol'. in my bi.,J,ckyar·d . I did not make fun of it at a1l . MR. DECKER: T n con c: 1.11 :; ·i.o n, Mr· . Speak f:~ r· , because I just haue thirty s ~-:~ c o n d ~; , T. 1: hi . n k ''!:~ s h o u J. cl cornp] irnE :!ni' the peop le of St. Barbe ror· i:lC:C:t)pl· .·i.ng HliS dump, but let us assure them that we are not. go i. n 9 1: o d ttmp d n r~ y r~ sot' e 'i. n t h <~ i.r­ backyard.

Let us assure them that l:hc~ dutllp I·Jwy arf~ go-lng 1-.o haue there, the incinerator, j s not somel :hi.ng l~h. :t i: they ar ·e goi.ng to be ashamed of, something that wi1l not . dr ·i.ue the ualue of their property down any more than it alreddy is. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the Day DR. COLLINS: 0 r· d c,H' 1 0 , U1 E:~ .:~ d j our ned d e b a ~. t'! o n Bjll 31, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPFAKFR : 11 r1 n r1 c 1'. R ~~ s p ~~ c: 1'. i. n g T h t'! P u b 1. i c L j brary Serv'.i ce In The Pr·ouince . 11 No . ()1 R3S7R

.ne debate hon. t.he Recreation clos i.ng th~~ was adjourned by the Minister of Culture, ... ;;d Youth, and he was debate. The hon. thf:! Mtni.sl:Hr of CuJ.t-.ure, Recreation and Youth. MR. RlJTT: Thank you, Mr·. Speaker. V t:~ r· y b r· i. ~ fl. y , b t:~ f o r· "~ nH) IJ i. n g s e c o n d r·E-!ad:jng, T would like lo thank hon. m~-:~mb~-:n·~; for· th~-:~i .r· 'i.np111 ·., bt"'.i.~~f a:. :i 1- was.

T want to assur·P. hon. nH:~mbtH'~' Uti:d: Ul'i.~; gov~-:n·nmnnl: 1:. c:omru:iti.E:~d t.o having :in pJ.ace Wht:\1: 'i.S i.n pJ.aCt-:~ tiOIIJ o:ltld I:O b1 .dl.d or1 1 h:i s a cornpr·ehensj ve l'ibr·ary SYS ~:E~IO I:O t'I~Spond (:O l:ht-:~ l'li;!f: ~dS Of alJ. Newfoundlanders and l. abt'ddor·i . •Hl s . Thr.tl: c e r· l:.:·d n 1. y "i. s th~ declared Jntent. of this act. T lhjnk as limes goes on, Mr. Speaker·, addlti.onal woni .es thctL are required wil 1 be dedicated to more materi.dl for libraries. t think there is a greater co -ordination now between the provind al, regional, and local l i.br·ar i.r-:!s.

That tdclS clear·l.y i:l need, and these amendments I now bring forward will fill t.h~t. void. The mr.ll- :1-.er· raised by H11~ hon. member for F.agl e River· l s correct l:o a pni .nl-., in that: t:her·e ~h'lS i.'l :.ubs1antial jncrease in salaries for people working in librar·ias. Now thai. 1 hal is out of the 1.\tay, r·'lr' . Speaker·, T l:h'i.nk 'lit:~ cr.tn ded:i c:ai.E:~ more funds in the fut.ur·e r·.n pu 1·: 1·. i ng add i. 1:-i.IHli .~ 1. rna 1-.1-n·'i. a l. :i td o llbrarJ es. H•:W i. ng si.-l i.d 1-.ha 1.:, w:i 1 h a great deal move st?.cond r·~:~adi.ng . Mt·.

Speaker, of p 1 e a s u r· e I On motion, RE:! spec t:l. ng Serv'i.ce Tn a The The "fin f.lc t-. bi.ll, Public U .brary P r o v ·l n c e , " t' e a J a L3579 June 24, 1988 Vol XL second time, ordered referred to a Counni. U:ee of the Whole House on tomorrow. (Bill No. 31) MR. SIMMS: Order 8, Aill No. 33. Second reading of a bjlJ., "An Act To f.lmt:~ncl Cf-)rLai.n (lcl·:s Having Regard To The Canadian Chart.er Of R i. g h 1: s n n cl F r· ~?. ~~ d oms . " ( R i l 1 No . 33) MR. SPfAKfR: The hon. the Mlnjster of Justice . MS VF.RGF: Th.u1k you, Mr·. !1peaker.

Hri.:> b'i.l .l sel ~s out sever·al amendments to the Province 1 s Sl:at .uh,~s l:o (HJSUt't?. that they conform with the requirements of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The changes were pr·oposed by a comm:l t tee of- three lawyers, who were appointed back :i. n 1 9 8 4 1: o rev i. ew the Province 1 s Statutes to see if, in any r· e s p e c t s , they f e 11 s h or· t of t he Charter requirements. That committee of lawyers was appointed by my predecessor, the present Senator, who is visiting us today.

It is good to see him back ~Ji. l h i. n o u r p r e c i. n r. ~~ s , s i. n c e h e made such an outstanding conl :r·i.bui:'i .on l:o deli.ber·.~h .ons in this Chamber over a gr·ea t number () r y 1?. at' s . SOME HON. MEMRERS: Hear, hear! MS UFRGE: Around the same lime, lhere were public aclvet•l-..i.s(?.niiHll-.s soli.ci.t.ing public input int.o the process of rfw :i.si.ng our· l.f:!g.i.slal :.i.on to make sure that our Statutes compl.y with the Charter'. Tl : LddS ·in Apri.J. of 198S that No . 63 R3579

:1ec L i.on lll of 1-.hH Ch.u· l·l'!t' c;.~me :i 11i o force: That : j s i he i rnpor·tard .. s ~~ c L i () t1 :; ~~ t I. i. J'l '3 ()I I I: () q ll ;~ l,' j 1. y r·:i ght.s. Just af1 er that, in H1E:~ S p r i. n g o f l q 8 r, , L h i. :; II o ll :; r,~ o i- AssE~rnbly prtssed lE.:g:isl<:dlon coni'..:~ in i.ng St~v~:mLy ·odd arn~:Hldfrl!:~nl.:; t o S i at u t E·! !; t h a t had bee n r·ecoJOHH:~nde:~d by Lhe Char'h:H' R(~IJ'i~:'JjJ Corn111i t.tee. This b) 1 l l s t.he second Y'f?.SUl. L or UJE:~ COIIIIIri.l ·: h~!:~ ( s 1.uor·k .

Jl stems from the c o rnrn i t. t F.H~ ' s s l-:! c o n d r e p o r· I: 1 . .\1 h i. c h concentrated on our Social Ser·vi .ces l.eg:i.slati.on. So most. of the amendments presented in the bill. pertain to Social Servi.ces legis] ai:.ion. A sruall nurnbe!r of other changes rf)lal ·:e l·:o other· types of legislation which had not bee n i d e n t "i. f iy d or de a 1. t w 'i. 1~. h earlier. Mr. Speaker, lhe bill is divided 'i. n t. o s ~~ c L i. o n s r· 1.?. r l~ r· r 'i. n g to pro vis j ons of the Charter.

AftEH' S I~ V C:H' r'\ 1. p .:~ 9 (:~ S 0 r f:~ X p 1. ,:Hl d hH' y 11otes, on page 10 of 1 he bill we th'IVl-:~ I ht- ) br,'g i.nn 'i.ng or ltw i~C l:llill i ~! x t. of i he b :i 1 J . TI1P f:lr·!;i prH'i deals 1.ui t.h equal 'i i y r·.ighl· .:; i'lntnndllllHJI·!; .

A·; r m~:~nt ·icll'lP.d ~arll E~r, that l s a pivotal pr·ov ·i.S"i.OI'l wh ·i.ch Ct:llfll-:~ i.nl- .0 ror'C:Ic~ 'i.n ApY':il 198S, and the maln provjsion i. s 1: h.~ t ~~ v N' :y i. n d i. v i d u i.-ll. i. s e q u d 1 beforE:! and under the Jaw and has a r·i.ght to the equ.:~l. prot:eci'.-i.on ~nd lhe equal benefit of the law 1.ui.thout d'i.scrilfllnat.i.on, and ·i.n particuJar without discrimination based on .. . • ·- iHld ther·e ar·e several heads of discrimination (~numer'ii ted. Then · l t goes on t.o say that essentially affirmative ~ction programs designed to ameJiorate disadvantages are not precludf:~d.

So u n d c~ r· p a r· t: lHH:~ o f 1-. h f:~ b"i.lJ. ljlf~ lo The l1ave Sf!t out changes (ldop 1: i.on or Ch ildr1 ~n () f: 1: I Th~: ~ L3J;RO JunE' 2'1, J 968 Uol XL Ch;~ngt~ or Nr.unn Acl'., H11,~ Chi.lcl WAJfar~ Act, The Children Of IJrlllliH'7' 'iHd PiH'C ·}rJI:; net, rh Fl.ectjon Act., The Horne:~s f(,~ ~1pt:~c j ,_,1. C;u·e 11• : 1:, lh1-:! Hosp·i tal s Act, ThE:! Maintenance Act, The Ml:~rnbnr·:; Of Th1,~ I·IOIJSc~ Of 11sst->.tnbly (R8tiring AJlowances) Act, ThE Mnutor· ·i.i.-ll.

IJni .v.-~r·si.l:y (lei :, The Memorial Universjty (Pensions) (l c t , T h 1,~ R e h i."1 b 'i.J. :i. 1·. a L i. o n A c t. , T h e St. John•s Fire Department Act, The Soci.<:'l1 r'lss'lst:ance riel'., and rhe Uniformed Services Pensions Act. Some of these changes, and I thin~ 1: h e m o n~ s i. g n .i. f i. c a n l c h a n g e s , a r e to legislation which wiJl be mud mor·e comprehensively refor·1ned :ir bills which are further down or thP. Order P.:-tper. Com.i.ng up u.1e have the package of family la~ r·efpr·tn, i.ncludi.ng the new Fami 1~ Law Act, which will reform the pr·esf:Hll'.

Maintenance (let: and .thE law reJating to children. II 01,1m v f:H' , s h o uJ. d H10 s e b i 1 l. s b E passed as they are now drafted UH:~ y ~~ i. 1. 1. n o l: r: o 111 t:~ i_ n 1: o f o r· c .. until next year. So ther·e wj 11 bE ::\ g•·lP of !)0111!:~ rnon U1s, dnd Uws( ' aTTIE!ndmenls will cover thai gaF d n c:l ' I: h f.H'

I) r tH' () ' Uw :y d r· (:' s ~. 'i.l J t.uort.h doing. Mr. Speaker, the next part of t h~ bi.J.l deals t.u·i .l:h t.he requ"i.rernenb of

Section 2 (

d) of the Charte 1 u1h'i.c:h s.:-tys and I tlJi.l1 quote, 'An~ person charged with an offence ha~ l:he right. i:o be presUJned innoceni until proven guilty according t1 1at.u in a fai.r and public hear ·inc by an independent and impartia : tr·:i.bunal. 1 The bl11 enumerate~ amendments to The Child Welfar' Act ctnd t:he Oay Car·e and Homemake1 Services Act. The change to Th1 Chi.ld Welfare f\r:l: removc~s i:h1 reverse onus features of tha · 1 e g · i. s 1. a I: i. on r'\ n d r· ~~ s t: o r l'! s l he o n u : to the prosecutor. The change t' Ull~ Or:~y c.u·o .::tncl Bom~~lllakE•I No. 63 R3S80

'Cj ~~ r v i c e s A c t i. rn p o s e $ a r· e q u i. r· e 1 n c;! n t of a hearing with reasonable notice to the parties clffected. Par t I I I o f 1~. he b i. 11 t' e s p o n d s to the requ'irements of Sect'ion 8 of the Charter which s~ys 1 Eueryone has the right to be secure against unreasonable Sf~r.~r·ch or· se ·izurc,~ . 1 The spedfic Jegislatjon proposed l:o bt' amended i.s The-?. Child Wel.fr:H'E:' Act, TIH.~ Day Care And Homemaker Ser·v ·i.ces (lei·:, The-?. [)~~~>i:H'I .. rne:~nl: of Fnviroi'HIIE:!rti Aci., and The F::ish !:nspe:~cl:io11 st cd .u'I.E:!S. Ac :.

I". hOSt:~ f o 1.1 r· C~WI'!T'r'll.l.y li-11) t:hangt)~; ~;<''IY i-.i'1dl'. t ltPr·e l1i:t!> i.o be a court or a j 1 1 d g f:~ g 'i. v c• n t~ld r· r· a n I: b ~~ f n r·

t) i.'l s E:! 1~1 r· c h , u n J e s s thE:! r· ~·! are 1/Jh at i'i r· e:~ caJ.l,,~cJ ex'i.g~:~nf : ci.r·cum~;l .• :ulcC:!S, u.1h:ir.lt are def::i ned as circumstances 'i.n IJJh'i.r:h thr~ del.dy n:~ceSSr'lt'Y l.o obtain the warrant u.Joul d res uJ t j n danger· l:o human li.Ft~ 1)t' saf't·d:y or· i.he loss or destruction of ~w i. d ~Hl c (~ . Pari". TU of the bi.l.l responds to ·lhE! r·equ:lrernents of

Section 9 of Lhe Char·l .:er·, IJJhi.ch says that ever·yone has the d ght not to be arbitrarily detained or ::impd soned. There is one dtnenclu1e1 ·1t sco!t. out under 1~.hat ~l!:~r.td, and that ::is t.o The Children Of Unrn.u·ri~~d P.'l.r~ml-.s net., and ·i.t. h<ls to do with requiring a court- ... ·i.SSLI~~d U.Jarr'.::lnl: for· t'lr't'f~S I:. Not.o~.l, that can be done in an .u· b i 1: r· •-~ r y U.l•'l y . P o:H' I. U o f 1. h e b i. l. 1 d ~~ .:o\ l.

S bri. 1: h :.!1 c:• Cl1dr't.e1n pr·ov:i sions : for r-.i ght to vo: ·,) •H1d l:h1~ spt~c ·i.f·ic i.~Hl!c~ndnH"~ill:~; iH' c~ i o T h e R 1 j n d P e r s o n s ()l ,lot~J.:ulc~:~s (lei: lo r·~:~ITlOI.JI-) i:\ pr·ov::ision t.Uh:itll is r·edundant, to l"h~~ Fle c I· ·i.on (l c: 1: 1-.o t'E:~dlll: e I ~H:~ disqual:ifica·tjons from vot.Jng, to The Old Ag~>. Assi.sf· .r'\i1Ce A1:t ·., and the Social Ass::islance Act. The 1_3581 June 2LJ ., 1988 Uol.

XL. 1 .. ~ 1-. 1-. f:~ t' Persons ttJJo, 1-:he SdHH-?. as The 81 'i.nd A] 1 ow an c e s A c t , are to r·ernouc-?. r·edundant pr·ou:ls'i.ons, the Charter proclaims the r·.ight t.o voh-?.. since basic The n 1-. he f i. n d l. par· t i. s head e d 1 Miscellaneous 1 , and these are c h ·Hl g c~ s r· e s p o n d i. n g L o t h e Fundamental Fre:~edorns Provisions of H1 H C h rH' 1-. f'! r , c hang !:' s t: o The C h i. 1 d Welfare Act, The City of St. .Tohn 1 s Ac:l·., The Flecl :it.•rl Act-., The Nuisances And Municipal Rc,~gl.tl.'ll.ion~; Acl·., .:-Hld l"h1-?. St .. John 1 s Assessment Act. ~Jtr·.

Spn.~k~'~r·, l:he J:l'ill. ·i.n l·:oLal., a.s T hrwe enurner·ated, amends severaJ !) r !) II r· i.o\ c 1: ~; . T 1". h i 11 k i. n a l. l Ullo! r ~~ ar·e over· t. hi rty arnendrne nt s .

I r· 1>. i:\ 1. i_ 1 I'! n11>. fll b 0. r· s o p p o s ·i. t: e may U.Jd n t to speak to or E:~nquire about one or· mor·•>. of l·.he spec:i.f:i .c changes, and u.1hat I propose to do now is si .utp1y rndke a g<Hwr·al. summation and await remarks of members oppos i. l:.f>. specifics amf:!ndments. b~~fOr'f>. of T these go 'lnt.o proposed In surnmar·y, al 1 of lhe changE!S i:'lre designed to improve the Statute l.r.uu of the Prov i.nce, to ensure that it complies with requirE!ments of Lhe ChartE:H' of R'i.ghts and Freedoms.

The amendments were r~~cotnrnc~nd~?.d by d conuni.t :l.:et-?. of in-house J awyers appoj nted in 19 84 hl comb Uwough our· Sl:ai-.uh~s -·and that js a rnassjve task - to i. d H i'1 l:'i . f y f>r'O V ·i. S ·i. 0 ll S blh i. C h a pp!:'rH' to fall short- of the Char·' r· ~) q u i. r• ~:~Ill en 1·. s . p a s s e d o rw Omn i.btl!> sP.venty-odd w f:' h i.~ \) f:~ r'l. l r· f~ ' Charter cornplianc~ b i.J.l, conl~.a:i.n·i.ng ~rnendmenls. That was cl o n 1-) 1: h r t~ (:~ y ,.~ ;u· s d g o .

T 11 i. s tl'i. ll. d o d l ~; report of the Coumlii :l·.f:'t:~, .;~nd l'.l-1~:~ as the contents No. 63 1~ri.l :h HH?. second Charter Review r· f>. p or· 1-. , d s tJJ e l.l of the bill, R3 581

c o n c e n t r· atE! on Sod al 1. fl. g i. s l a 1: i. on . ~)t)IIH:~ or l.il!' ~)ot:i .o:\1 lt'lgoi sl nt :ion i:lffE :!C1.E~d by Se r·v ices ~) ,.~ r'" u -j t: (·~ ~~ Ul:i ~- b:il] I)Ji .ll bf-) n,,ror ·m,~d in "' conJfJY'c-•hens i.vE-! J.uny 1 hr·ough b:i] l s tllt 'Ult:!r' dt)I)JII on OIH' Or•dHr' Pdp(-."!('.

Govc·H'I'ITIIE-!rd ·.is con1ud t.ted 1-:o c d r·r· y i ng I''(~ f 0 r'fll on i:llld I)J i I. h 1: o 111 p r· (~ h c~ n :> 'i. v ~~! ovPrhauJ of other soc i.r.ll I' IE~ EH:f sl:al:LJl.es hJ h ic:h I~J:'l r·t~cogni;t;l mot"e wor·k, but, :in th~:~ llll~r:lnl· .·i.Jn~:~. l·.ht:!!)t~ chdng~=!S nc~~l:'U l:o bf~ made. Thi:lnk you. MR. SPFAKFR : rhe hon. Uw l.eadc-?.r' or Lh!~ Oppos:ition. MR. WELI .S: Mr·.

Speaker, making the necessary changes i.n e~l.l of our· s tat.u 1-.e:~ l.i::tt.o~J to ensure lhat jt provides full compli .rHlCt~ wi .Lh l:he Chdt'h:H' or R j g h t. s :.i. s g o :i n g l. o g o o n for s om e yoiH'S Lu cotn~~, qu.i .l:r~~ cl8<H'ly. SomE·' of l':hese changes may well. be rnund by t:OI.Jr'h; ·in Hw ru·l·.IJt'!;! no1 : -1" o bE:! adequa ·l E:! to meet t.hE:~ t'(~qui .t'PIIIHnl·.!; or l:hl:~ Ch;~r·IHt' dnd l,o~)(! IAJ:i 1 l. b P b d c k h P r· E:! m Cl k :i n g cHI d d j u ·; I . nt t' n L d P. c :i s j () 1'1 . 1

i) n1:~ ,,~ 1-. Lh;~ c 0 II t' L ~; I 1-.h i.nk 11-Jt-:• nri .n i.s hn· hds l· .• :~k,~n l:ht~ c o r· r· P c t c. p pI" o a c l1 , or s he s i:l i d h e r· pr·r -)dt·'!C:,~s sor· ·in i. i·i . .-_.\ l:(~d l·.hr,~ FH' o c: E·~ d u r (-'! • I t hi n k , c 1 ear 1 y , t. he COt't't;!Ci-. f,\ppt'lh'tCh -i.S o:'\ COtnflli.l:l.f~l~ of' lett.<~JYE:!Y'S, etnd probably it. is best ·i.n ·hOUS(~, in UH:~ OC:!pi:H't.tnr-~nt-. or Justice, to review every statutory pr·ov is ·ion Uta 1: l s present l.y i. n effect :in this Province to ensure l::ha t it dot:'S no 1:. do orfenct~ to Lhe Che~rter.

I do not think we should b t:~ u n d u l. y c r· L t. "i Ci' 'll o f t h to?. 1 n i. f :i. 1--. ·t.akes a good deal of time, or if on U1e 1.uay Lhr·ough llwy m-lght-. m-i.ss Cl p r· o vis j on or two . It is a Jnclssi.VtO! task, and I th·i .nk, pe r·haps, Mr·. Spea kE:~r, :it IAJoul d not l.~SIP June,~ ?.'1 -, 19138 Vol XI . be out of order to recogrdze th.;: j o b 1. h r1. 1·. i h r~ IJ h d (J P done i. n I' h p on cc already passed and in Lhi : p;-n•l-. i UlloH' S i".d 1".11 :-,,. We llklY hdvt,~ :>OIII!~ pdr'i: .i.cuJ..u· v i.~~IAJ~: o n i 11 d 1 v j d lJ a 1 p r· o v i s i o n s , Cl n d t: hE>.~ Ilk\

I) or· HldiJ ilO 1: LH~ Vd.l ·i.d. WP. hdVF to bE:!ctr Jn m.i nd that t.he lai.AJyer~ I)) h 0 t' 1:' V 'i (·0! l~h~ d l: h i :; l-.!) 0 k o'll. l.

l) f those aspects :into considere~tior d n d d i. d i. 1: 141' i. 1 ... h I . h d 1-. p rH' t· 'i. c L1 l. tH purpose j n mind . I have lookec 1". h r· o u r3 h I·Jw () r: I . g f>.I'H~ r· a ll y a n d J believe it makes a valiant effor·i to hclve sections Uw s t~ of the Clauses, t.host statutes that arE rnen1-: ·i.o1·wd all:erod to fHlSIH'E' . compliance or non-offence to thE Charter or Rights. I think, Mr.

Speaker, that it doe~ an adt->.quah·>. job so Far·, buLl recognize that it is not pui for't..ll iH'd dS r:ornplPI :e compliance , and that the work goes on and wil: undo u b 1: t:~ d 1 y go on for· so lfH-:> year·~ to come. It js a massive task. cornm~-:~nd l.ll:~ mi .it i :; l f~r· ,.:tnd who I.: hE hau1 departmental lawyers pr·odiJCt~d Lht~~ Aci. t'1R. SPFnKFR: The hon. t.he mE 'lmber for· Me>.nj hek . MR. FENWlCK : Mr.

Speaker, it js actually pr·od ·i.g ·i.ous l.a~ !< l:o c-~VfHl go t·.I-Jr·ougl al1 this to see what all l.h' chd.nges .u·:~ ntr->.i:Hll: t.o accomplish In that respect, it: is VE!r: J .i F r i. r: ul t-. 1-. o s ~ y rn u c h , o t:I-H~ r 1". h a 1 what we would appreciate is mayb ' HH~ r·'li. n i. s i:.c-?.r' or Just: i. c e 1.uou l.d b1 willing to give us some mor• docuwent.at .Lon on the a.ct.ua changes that are being propose ' hert:~. I th-i.nk appropriate HH:~ Who 1 e IAJ(>. we have any No. (i:J i.l-. i. s much mcH't that jn Committee o J.ook at: any det.ail.· pr•oblerns with. I· R3582

-~ .... thi~ case, jt is ]ike trying to s a y ~~~ ~w Uw r you a r· e i. n r a u o u r o F the telephone book, because there j_ S S 0 IOU r: h i. n i. ~-. One po i.n t I LdOIJld llk e to IO.,\ko to the M-inister, and ask her if she can l:ab~ Lhi .s under adu .i.se10ent. and see 1..uhat she can do about it, is t:ha t-.

I..Ue hau c~~, i. n U1F.! l.rj s t b.1.10 or· three weeks, received an i.nct'(:~di.bl.y 1ar·ge amoun~ . oF leg islation that WE:~, quite f r· a n k l. y , h <:\ u F.! n o 1-. h .~ d I . h e oppor·t·uni -Ly lo go through j n a tnanrH:H ' ·i_n IJ.Ihi .ch IJ.ll'. 1~1oul d 1 i.ke l:o, and I 1 ~d r1k that-. j s probably a c 0 111111(' 11 1: 1'.1-1 d 1: t: •.H1 LH ~~ 111.:1. cJ f:~ by 1.1'1 (~' Offj c:let] Oppos lt:i 011 as LJ.Ie] 1 . Ort t.hi'lt betsJs, sJntP.

I thJnk thE:!re i s •'I d :~ o; ·i. r· I'! on L h o p '" r -1-. o f" o'l 1: 1 Pa~:t ~;omE:! p~wpl.e :in 1 h:.is HousE:~ 1 o t~vc ,~nl :ual.l.y ;-H.Ijor.wn l:he 1~-:~g ·i.sldl .l.lt'l-:' for · some pari of the Summer·, E:~uen i.f ·i.l. -i.s 1-h~~ 1.~sl: •~H ~:~k ·i.n ~ugusL, thE~n Ji nt:ight be helpful jf the br· :i.(~r i.ng noi ·:Hs 1-:l'w nr.i.ni .s 1-·_c.H' hr:'l!; on t h1 s par ·t j cuJ ar piece of 1. ~~' g .i. s l. a l i on d n d o ~-her · s , i F .i. i-. wou]d be possJble to get copies of the111 al ~~ach ~-i.rne .i.t gol-:!S through second reading so we can haue a tnu c h lfiO r· e de t a i .1 f:' d ex pl. an at . ion oF what j s trying to be accomp] j shed her·e.

I do not think anybody particular arguments against of the pr·ou]sions, but jt is dlffir:ul.t, even with P.xp] artdtory notes we have j n has any uery l-· h(-:! the fro n 1- of "i. 1: , to rea J.l. y g f:~ 1·. o3 g r· as p ort tllhcd. is t-rying t.o be i1CCOHlpli .S~ll: :~cl hf:H 'C~. : Qu ·i.l:f:~ rr•,uJkl.y, IJ.Jj ·l h 1 hE-! rP.sourc:E:!s 11.1E:~ hc.ve .ltJ d i 1.~ b le , i I. i. s tJ e r· y d ·i. F r ·i. c u ll : for · tJ!; io l<c--!~=~P up t~..rith thE·! almost b 1 i.l." /. r-\ nl

I) r 1. f:~ g -j_ s 1. i'll ·. i () n c

C) uri i 1 g -l (II.J.Ji-H' d ~; lJ s . [ knotjl l.he orr ·i.c i.dl Oppo!; -i_l: ·i.on 1110 r· P. r P !; o tJY' c e s 1-han us , b u l h .~:; no-L L3583 J u n e 2 IJ. , 1 9 8 8 Vol XI.. much mor·e resources. On that b d :; i. s , tj1ell. , .i F 1: h (:' y do not: have as much or actually they do not h <"W f:O r:l S Hlll c h , L Ill- ~ n L h e p r· o b 1. e 1TI must obviously be there, as well.

So perhaps t.he mtnister and other 1r1 :l n i. s I: e r· s 1.u h o a r· e -i. n t r· o d u c i n g legtslation, if they do have P·~PE!t'S prep;:H·c~1d wJ t:h br:lef · notes on it that are not the k oF l:hi.ngs l:h~~Y IAIOUl.d rn·i.nd lett .. us have a look a, LJ.Jhen they go 1-. h r· o u g h s e r: o n cl r· o d d -L n g , J F t h e y could table the br·iefing notes, it mighl ·. hr ·)l.p us consi .dc -H' clbly i.n expediUng the passage of -L.Ile l.c :'9 i slal::i.on 1-.llr·ou~:~h t·.hH Cc:nnmi.l -_l:(~~e stage.

I tJ.Iould ask the min] ster ·ir sh1- ) cotl1d ilddr·f~ss l:ht:li-. ull·wn sh~~ c] oses 1 he debate on th] s jJdt'l:it :tl1rH' p·i::.c1:. Oi- ll~~gi .s1al:i.on . OU11-:'t ' l:h.H1 Ul i.-11 :, ljl :~ do nol·. rr~all.y have any object-]ons because wr undc,H'SI : . .hld t~lh· -~1-. l.hc~~ objecl- .i_tJe t.~oli.>S it is just that we rea]Jy have not bec~'n dblt~ l··_l) Jo 1-.1-w k"i.nd oF t.uor·k on it we would feel satisfied with. MS VERG E: Mr· . Speaker·. MR . SPE~KER (Green ·ing}: If the hon. minjster speaks now she wi11 close the debate. The hon. the Minister of Justice. MS VERGE: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker . 1 l£d. ll c: :H' 1-. a -j_ n l y d 0 ·~I h r:1 t. 8 u <~H' T to co-operate with both Opposi PrH' l·.·.i :~ !) 1-.o i'l~; s i. ~; 1-. HHWI appred a-t lng the cont.ent.s of thE! bi.l.1 .!; lj/f:' .:-tr'H go ·i.ng Hlt 'ough. 1 realize fully that some of them i.lt '

I) C( II ·j_ i:

l) t: Oltlf> 1. (}X . We wj 11 soon be coming to a p i:tCk i.~9t: 1 l)f fOIH' fr:'o\UJi .J.y l_r:tl£1 b·i.l.Js which involve major reform. I No. ()3 R3 58 3

haue briefing notes on that packr:lgf:~ IAJhi .ch T. IAJi.l.l gl..~dly sh•H'H IA.Ij H1 t l1e Oppos j -l .i.on. Wl'l( !ll i L COliii-~S l:o Hl 'i.s pru·l ·."i_l:l.ll r:H' bi J J, 1 do not haue a conuerd eni pr·l1 :ko:1•:3:~ . J hr •wr~ rlly hdndi~Jt'i .LI ·.c,~n not c-:>~; :in !.h E:! nrcH'g :.i n .

Pl':!rhaps, l f JIIOIIlbc·r· ~; oppos ·i 11,, hiliJI'! qu~-:'!> 1.-i.on·; rtboui par·ticuJ rH' clc:tiJ~;es of t IY.i s bi .ll , IMC ~ Cr:Hl g ~-:'L Loglc 'Ull'!r' dnd o..:JO ·I hi' 'OlJgh UtE :!flr befor'E·! ·the Conurd U · eE:~ () ( l h c~ W hI) l. e oHio~ 1. y S i. !) . ~)C::'U lcH'd l or C h r:l 1'1 g Co~ S i:t r' H i t!Cirn :icct]. 1·: h(,~ Tirey r·emoue obso] ete s ~~ x ·i. s 1--. p r· o u i. s ·i. o n s . r~ 0 r· f~ X .:till p 1. c~~ I Cli.iuse 1] repeals a sc-:>ction of The Mernor·i.d] Urduf>.rs 'i.l-. y ()ct.

IAJh ·i.ch S<'lys women are allowed to be on the Boa r· d of R e g e n 1: s a n d 1-:. h f:~ S e n a l e . Obviously we do not need that, 1 .. h a n k f u ll. y . T. a rn g 1 a d ~--o s a y 1-.: h a t t. h c~ p r· a c ~: i. c e of the past nine years of the P~>.ckFor·d Aumi.nisl ~rat-i.on has b1 ·>.r-:>n for th~ Lieutenant-Governor in Council. t-.o appo in L ·~ bal.anc:>. of wonrEHl ctird nH''i 'l to the Board of R t~ 9 P n I !; . r u n d f>. r· s ; . ·HId I ~H>. ~> t'! n d l:r~ of -thE' unjuE:!rs .ity, which :is chosen

I) I i UJi. n ; .ll :~ r: () n r 'i. n f.! s !) r UH-) tJII :iuPr ·s :i-ty, hi'.l5 mor 'e wornet1 than l~ldS i.ht-:' C··1•>t-) 1-.r-ad·i I 'i.on.-1l.l.y, ctlihcwgh :.tolJ.] not enough. A1 any r· •. ,; ·_c), Uwt 't-:! c.-H'e no longHr' ·i.:; dilY IIE!Pd for· 'l.l1r! l.egj ~;J cd jon 1 o say Ulo. ~ I I!JOnHc'i'l oH '::' f:~l .-i.g ibl.e Lo bl' ~ on tlrP Roi:tr'd of Rege~nts i::lnd Senate. ~5o Hldny of Uw dldngl':~s dt'f:' iPCIJn:-icnJ. Some-:! i::lre more ~; u b s I· <HI I. i_ .:-1 J. , r:l s I s a y , f~ s p ~~~ c i .:~ l.l y lo t.he~ farrriJy JegisJat:ion, the one set out under Pdrt L, Equality R j g h 1.. s .

M o s t of them wi 11 be act.ual.J.y SLifH:!rS(~'de-:>d by lhe farnlly Jaw package we wiJJ. be debating in lhe next couple of weeks. I am g] ad there is of co -oper·a 1-: i.on i_n such Lh ·i. s l3.S84 June 2lJ, 1988 a spirit House oF Vol Xl Assembly in our effort to reforn 01.1 t' l. f:' 9 'i. s 1. r:'\ 1-. .i. 0 n 1-() f:~ n sur'(.-" i. t complies with the Charter . T'hr~ I t-:~.:Hil~t ' of 1111" right when he says c l~'r' ; i~ ·j Ill . y 1.-LJ"i , l. l II[) ; would not suggest uri i'l' 1 I f:' . T lJ 1 ~ confor·rn:i ng IA.Ii t.:h the-:' b ~-:' i-Hl o n g o i. i 1 g n n n .

OpposiHun i~ this proces~ ond hE:'r'e. 1 t..hi:d. for· b I I ~; ·j_ i'l 1-:' S S 0 f Cl1arter lAd]; The Charter has bE~EHI subject to couri 'i, n 1: e r' FH' 1,~ l·. d I i.n n ·i n n nl. y r E:~ J a b u E:~ Iy f e tJ.J c a s e s y e t. . We IAri J ~ dll, hi .'\UI~ l-.0 bE~ gu ·i,dr-HJ by ftj(IH'E court ruJjngs. But our administration has taken i pr·o -aci: "i VI-) appr·oach to Char·t:er compliance.

Instead of waitin~ F o t' Hw c o u r· 1·: s to s 1:: r i k e d ow r inappropriate pr·ovisi.ons in ou1 1<::'gi .s1at:'i.on, IAJe have tr·ied l:o takt the initiative ourseJues to hau1 our· J.auJyt~r·s go l~.hr·ough ei3.Ch act onE! by one, clause by c]ause, ant i. d lHl 1- i. f y s h or · t. c om 'i. n g s a n d t a k r legislative initiatives such a 1-. h i s l~ o c l t' d r· u p 1:. h o ~; 1 deficiencies. I t.hat1k mE~mber·s oppositE! for· thei c o · o p c~~ r' ,J l. i. o n ·i. n L h .i. s p r· o c r->. s s . w i. l:h 1-.hos :) <:Ofllfii{)Jl ;~;I r1t'.

Spp.:~k tH' T. moue second readj ng of th:i b·il .l., 11 !1n ()cl To Au11~11d Cf~r·l-a'i. Acts Having RHgard To The Canadia ChiH'h-H' or R-i.ghL:; :1nd Fr'l'~t-:'doms . II On mot.ion, cl bill, 11

An Act T ~llll'!rld Cr>.r·l-.di .n Acl ·:s Havi.ng Reg,u· To The Canadian Charter Of Right n 11 cl r r CH :~ d () m s I II r· (~ cl d a s (->, c () n d lllfl e ordered referred to a Committee o l.h~~ Whol~~~ Hous~:~ on tornor·r'OIAJ (Bill No . 33) DR . COLLINS: Order 9, Rill. No. 30 . Motion, II /1 rJ (l C 1·.: No . 63 second reading of a bt 1 J R1-:>SFH~C: L ·i,ng The Pur·chas ·i.n R3S84

'1 i:\ r1 a g Co~ Ill to~ 1'1 i: (l!) S 0 C i. o:.J. I. 'i. 0 l'l or Canada." ( BJ lJ No. 30) Mr?. SPFt'lKF:R: 1 hP 1'1011. the Min:i.ster of Consumer Afr~ i.r·s dnd Counnuni.c.ll:i.ons. MR. YOUNG : the purpose of this to recogniLe the Mr. Speaker·, bill is Pur·chasing Management Association of Canada "Cert::i fi ed and i. 1:. s d e s i. g nat. i. on o f Professional Pur·chaser·s." Tht:~ mewber·s of l:hE:~ ~ssoC'i .di :·ion o:\rf:' employed in both the private seclor and govt ·~ t·nnlf~nl: dgt~nc .i.es i.~:-. i ~-,~, fedE~rCJ.l, pr·ovi nciaJ and 111un i.e i.p.:ll. levels .

Thee~ pr·i.llldt'Y () b j E:~ (; t-:i v (-' (I r 1 he pur c h d. sing MoHI•"9l~llll~fll ns~;ot:i .dl .ion of c .. lnddi.J. j s i o improvE~ procurement and Jfl, :.J. 1:~:~ r· i.d l ~; HI•Uld9H01t o~ n 1: pr·a c 1. ·i. c n ~; . f h f:~ (l ~; S 0 C i. i" i. 'i. 0 i'l 1 ~; C I Jr' t' !:HI 1-. rnE~mbe:~lnsh:iiJ ~di.o:t11ds cd. CJ.ppr·oxirnCJ.t.e1y S, 700 Jll~:'nlbt oH 'S , ·i.ncl.ud ·i ng flO ru 8 rui:HH' ~' i n t h P. N e:H.uf o u n cl ] a n d B r a n c h . ThE=~ (.)s~;ociai..Jon is 1necogni:zecl :in Nov ·l ~>c . o ; ·i. ·:l c.Hl d 0 n 1: d t' · i o .

I) r· •:1 F 1: b:i 11 s have been prepared :in the Pr·ov.i.nce of Ne•~• tlr·unsw.ic:k, ManitobCJ., Saskatchewan, and A 1. be r· la. As gover·nlflents at all levels have a substantial impact on the field of the pur·chase o.r procur·emenl: of materials and services, h~ g ·i. s l ~ t i. o n s u c h a s t-.tl'i. s u.1 h i. c h enhances the professionalism of ~he purchasing prac:lic:es is desirable. They wi1J also have 1-.Jw au H10 r· ·i 1: y h> '·' s ~~ 1-.:1-w ·i. n i. i·. i. a 1 ~; C.P.P. r.tft .E-~r the :ir· names. T movE~ sE~C:<II 'Jd r·eCJ.dj ng, Mr·. SpE ·H:tker .

MR. wr:1.1.~1 : M r· . 5 p to! i.~ k e r· . 1.3f)85 .J IJI'lto~ /./j . 1 1. 9 8 8 Vol. XL. MF? . srEnKFR : The hon . lhe l..eader of the Opposi.l'i.on . MR. WFLLS : M r· . S p c-:! i.'l k fl. r , I h "' d d i. f f i. c u ll: y following the minister and umiE:H'stand i.ng H1e r·E:~al. purpose of t hi s b i 11 . What I d o not k now i s why the particular Purchasing Management Associatjon of Canada ·i.s g'i.v~:Hl thto1 pos.it .i. on that it is given under this bi.ll.

Unless you ;u·o a member of lhn.t associ .al:'i.on, no person in this Province, afl·:er·l~klr·ds, shall be:~ t.;!nl:ll-.l.f!d t.o use the designation, Certified P r· o r- :~ s s i. on •:ll. Pur c has c:H' . Not~J, I do nol: rni.nd i.r ht-:! 1