Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, February 17, 2022

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 151

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Libby dam impact and weir proposal

T. Shypitka

Role of volunteers during COVID-19

R. Singh

Flood and landslide response by Trans Mountain workers

T. Stone

Resilience of arts and culture sector during COVID-19

B. D’Eith

Homelessness and Coldest Night of the Year fundraising walk

S. Furstenau

Community organizations in North Vancouver–Seymour during COVID-19

S. Chant

Oral Questions

Affordability issues and rebate for renters

M. Bernier

Hon. S. Robinson

Subsidized housing for seniors

S. Bond

Hon. D. Eby

Lawsuit by former children in government care and funding of child protection system

S. Furstenau

Hon. M. Dean

Tax policies and gas prices

P. Milobar

Hon. B. Ralston

InBC Investment Corp. activities and sale of personal health information

T. Stone

Hon. A. Dix

Government transparency and response to freedom-of-information requests

M. de Jong

Hon. L. Beare

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 4 — Skilled Trades BC Act (continued)

B. Stewart

H. Yao

M. Bernier

A. Singh

J. Brar

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2022

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: R. Merrifield.

[10:05 a.m.]

Introductions by Members

I. Paton: Mr. Speaker, I don’t usually do this, but today is my daughter,

Jamie’s, birthday, and I’m sure she’s watching. Jamie has done so many

things I’m so proud of. She has been working with the less fortunate in

Nicaragua, Brazil, Fiji, Habitat for Humanity. She was in Japan for two

years teaching school, and now she’s back in her fifth year at UBC to get

her official teaching certificate so that she can teach here in

B.C.

Happy birthday to my daughter, Jamie.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

LIBBY DAM IMPACT AND WEIR PROPOSAL

T. Shypitka: Completed in 1973, the Libby dam, near the township of Libby,

Montana, and 77 kilometres south of the Canadian-U.S. border, displaced

thousands of resi­dents and First Nations along the Kootenay

River. This dam was an optional insertion into the Columbia River treaty

that provided further flood reduction, hydro power, recreation and

environmental stewardship.

However, there are many that contest that this dam has greatly

impacted a variety of large game animals, including bighorn sheep and

elk, not to mention aquatic life such as white sturgeon and bull trout.

Furthermore, the dam has created insurmountable erosion along the banks

of the reservoir, and valuable habitat and ecosystems have been lost.

Libby started producing power in 1973, and to this date, Canada has

received very little, if any, financial benefit from the Libby project,

which generated $138 million in 2017 alone.

Mario Scodellaro, a Cranbrook resident, is a supporter of building

a weir to stabilize the water levels at Koocanusa reservoir, north of

the 49th parallel and has seen firsthand the displacement and the unfair

compensation that Canada has seen since the 1960s. There are many

questions and controversies that surround the proposal of building a

weir which cannot be explained in a two-minute speech. All of the MLAs

should have received a brief informational flyer that I handed out and

will be happy to discuss with anyone.

In his youth, Mario was a great junior hockey player and was

pursued by the New York Rangers — a great Canadian that retired in 1989.

Born February 17, 1929, in Bellevue, Alberta, to a coal-mining family,

Mario is turning 93 years young today.

I will have more to say about this important topic of ensuring

Canadian water sovereignty and centuries of economic benefit, but for

today, I just want to wish Mario a very happy 93rd birthday.

Happy birthday, Mario.

ROLE OF VOLUNTEERS DURING COVID-19

R. Singh: It is during adversity that we find out who among us are the real

heroes. In the last two years, we have witnessed many unsung ones. These

are the people who impact real life and whose selflessness and desire to

serve others are the vital seams of a caring society. Among the many who

have taken on that mantle during these tough times, community volunteers

have been as essential as any. I stand before you to applaud

volunteerism in our province.

[10:10 a.m.]

In addition to the pandemic, our province has experienced quite a

year, and whether it was the fires during the record summer last year or

the floods that followed, we saw some exceptional instances of

volunteerism. From helping people save their homes, bringing groceries

for others, cooking, serving and delivering food and other necessities,

driving people to their appointments and offering to care for children

while parents went to work, volunteers have put in an immense effort for

the good of the community.

Among the many examples around our province of people embodying

resilience and service is Margaret Byrne, a retired health care worker

who has not only been volunteering with different constituency offices

in Surrey for many years but also through the pandemic and, before, has

been serving people at different community organizations. In fact, it

was her 80th birthday on Tuesday, and she shows no signs of

relenting.

It is selfless people like Margaret on whom many have relied

during the last two years. Volunteers have always been an inspiration

for me, and I’m in awe of their commitment to community. Today I request

you all to join me in appreciating these big-hearted British Columbians

and the incredible work that they do.

FLOOD AND LANDSLIDE RESPONSE

BY TRANS MOUNTAIN

WORKERS

T. Stone: On November 14, British Columbia was hit with an unprecedented

weather event causing widespread flooding and landslides that impacted

communities throughout the Coquihalla and Fraser Valley regions. People,

communities and companies rose to the occasion in response. Today I rise

to tell one of those many stories.

Trans Mountain, their employees and contractors working on the

expansion project, stepped up in a huge way. First and foremost, they

did all they could to ensure British Columbians didn’t run out of fuel.

The flooding event caused a precautionary shutdown of the pipeline,

which lasted 21 days, the longest period in Trans Mountain’s nearly

70-year history. It took hundreds of people working around the clock to

repair the pipeline, staring down treacherous terrain, damaged roads,

changes in the river flow and adverse weather conditions to ensure that

British Columbians could access the fuel they depend on.

The prolonged rainstorms also temporarily shut down some expansion

project construction sites, so contractors were redeployed to help open

B.C.’s damaged highway system. Crews and heavy equipment already staged

through­out the affected corridor turned their attention from

twinning the line to actively assisting the Ministry of Transportation

to get the roads cleared, build bridges and repair culverts.

In large part to Trans Mountain’s help, the Coquihalla was

reopened in record time — nothing short of extra­ordinary. Trans

Mountain also helped the communities and people most directly affected.

When Trans Mountain’s expansion project contractor wasn’t clearing roads

in the Hope region, they were helicoptering in and delivering supplies

such as food, fuel, water and blankets to stranded motorists in

surrounding Indigenous communities.

In B.C.’s Interior, Trans Mountain crews installed matting to open

up road access for stranded Coldwater band members. They delivered food,

water and supplies, a 10,000-watt portable light-plant generator and 100

gallons of fuel to the Nooaitch Indian Band. They evacuated numerous

Indigenous communities.

To everyone at Trans Mountain, thank you for stepping up to help

rebuild our great province. Thank you for your grit, your determination

and your generosity.

RESILIENCE OF ARTS AND CULTURE

SECTOR DURING

COVID-19

B. D’Eith: I rise today in the House to speak about the resilience of B.C.’s

arts and creative industries. Individuals, non-profits and businesses

working in these industries have been particularly hard hit by the

pandemic and disproportionately affected by restrictions on

gatherings.

Our government responded swiftly, with over $40 million in COVID

supports to arts and the creative sector. Amplify B.C. was renewed for

the music industry, and funding for the B.C. domestic motion picture

industry has been launched. Every step of the way, we’ve been there for

live events in venues, and they’ve been eligible for more than half a

billion dollars in business supports.

Now, the government has made these investments because arts and

culture and the creative industries matter, and we want them to know

that our government stands with them. They employ tens of thousands of

British Columbians. They contribute in a powerful way to the economic

engine of British Columbia. As COVID-19 highlighted, arts, music and

film are critical to our mental health and our ability to maintain

strong communities.

[10:15 a.m.]

Now, as Parliamentary Secretary for Arts and Film, I’m honoured to

work with the Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport, and I’m

proud of the actions our government has taken to help these sectors and

industries weather the storm, adapt, innovate and continue to create.

There is so much to be done, but we’re up for the task.

Now, just yesterday, our live music and event sectors received

exciting news from Dr. Bonnie Henry. They’ve done their part to keep

people safe, and now their doors will open to full capacity.

I encourage everyone to take some time this weekend, this long

weekend, this Family Day long weekend and support our live events and

music sectors. Let us dance, sing and perform in a safe way. The future

is bright for British Columbia’s art, film and creative industries, and

I’m so proud of the people that make these industries shine across our

province.

HOMELESSNESS AND COLDEST NIGHT

OF THE YEAR FUNDRAISING

WALK

S. Furstenau: As we all know, B.C. is in a housing crisis. We’re also

experiencing growing inequality, a mental health crisis and a drug

poisoning emergency. All of these issues have compounded and intensified

through the pandemic.

Unfortunately, we do not even know the numbers behind how

widespread the problem is. Over the past two years, annual homelessness

counts have been cancelled due to COVID. We don’t have the data, but we

do have the experiences and testimony of those struggling. We know

things have gotten harder, just as we know that the solutions before us

exist, if only we had the will to enact them.

That is why today I want to highlight the Coldest Night of the

Year. The Coldest Night of the Year is a fundraiser that supports local

charity partners. Every year in communities across the country, people

gather to walk together and fundraise for the local organizations that

support people who are unhoused. Since beginning in 2011, the program

has raised $43 million in 149 communities across Canada.

This year participants can join an in-person or a virtual walk in

Duncan. The event is hosted by the Canadian Mental Health Association

Cowichan Valley chapter. So far there are 292 registered walkers, 48

teams, 34 volunteers, and $35,456 has been raised. This will go to the

Cowichan arm of the Canadian Mental Health Association to facilitate

mental health programs, support the Warmland House, which is a 30-bed

emergency shelter that produces 120 meals daily, and to raise funds to

create a safe space for homeless youth.

I’m pleased to support this organization and the Coldest Night of

the Year walk. I want to encourage my colleagues in the House to find

their local walks and participate. It is a great way to come together as

a community and support those with the greatest needs.

COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS

IN NORTH VANCOUVER–SEYMOUR

DURING COVID-19

S. Chant: I begin by acknowledging that I’m speaking from the unceded

territories of the Esquimalt, Songhees First Nations and the

Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ-speaking people, and

that I live, work and learn on the unceded territory of the Coast Salish

people, specifically the Tsleil-Waututh and Squamish Nations.

I am fortunate in my riding to have a plethora of community

associations, all of whom provided strength and resilience before COVID

and have risen to the challenge throughout the past three years through

reaching out, strengthening communication, keeping outdoor spaces

cleared, putting on virtual and actual events such as the annual

Christmas tree parade, having book clubs, promoting local businesses as

well as keeping in very close touch with the representatives from all

three levels of government. Lynn Valley, Deep Cove, Blueridge, Seymour,

Maplewood, Lynnmour: those are our community associations, and they do

wonderful work in our communities.

Additionally, we have a truly good neighbour who is proving

awfully challenging to keep up with. The Tsleil-Waututh Nation got their

offices powered by solar panels, have been actively rehabilitating the

inlet, have built housing and have been managing Say Nuth Khaw Yum Park

so that it remains lovely for visitors.

I, for one, am so grateful to have all of these folks actively

supporting our community overall, and I truly believe that they have

made a huge difference in how my community has made it through COVID and

is moving forward.

Oral Questions

AFFORDABILITY ISSUES

AND REBATE FOR

RENTERS

M. Bernier: We know that the NDP are the most secretive government here in

Canada, but they cannot hide from the facts. New figures show that in

British Columbia here, in the month of January, the cost of living went

up 4.3 percent, driven mostly because of the rental increases of almost

4 percent that we’ve seen here.

[10:20 a.m.]

Look, gas prices are up. Grocery prices are up. Housing and rent

prices are up. Almost every single thing is more expensive in the

province of British Columbia under this NDP government.

The Premier promised British Columbians that he would fix the

rising cell phone bills — never happened. He promised he would fix gas

prices that are going up — never delivered on that promise. He promised

a renters rebate. None of the Premier’s promises are coming to fruition.

He’s not delivering on any of them.

Can the Premier tell the Legislature today, after five years of

saying: “Well, we’re working on it….” It’s been five years. When will he

deliver on any of his promises? Let’s start with the $400 renters

rebate.

Hon. S. Robinson: Rising prices are, no doubt, a concern for British Columbians.

It’s a concern for Canadians right across this nation. It’s a national

issue. We’re seeing a 5.1 percent increase nationally; 4.3 percent here

in B.C., which is the lowest among the major provinces. We are

continuing to engage with the federal Finance Minister, encouraging her

to use the tools at her disposal.

I have to say that I think we need to remember where we were at

when we formed government. We have child care…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. S. Robinson: …that is growing leaps and bounds. Reducing fees on child care has

real meaning for people.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order. Order, please. Order, Members.

Members will come to order.

Hon. S. Robinson: They don’t like that we’re delivering child care, so let’s talk

about something else. MSP premiums are gone, eliminated.

I’ll leave with one more before I take my seat, because I believe

there are probably more. Let’s talk about the tolls — how the tolls have

been eliminated and what that means. It means money in the pockets of

British Columbians who’ve had to pay because the people on the other

side insisted that they pay a toll to get across a bridge.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Peace River South, supplemental.

M. Bernier: Actually, where we’re at is a long and ever-growing list of broken

promises from this government.

Look, house prices are at an all-time high. The average family

now, in British Columbia, is paying over $3,600 a year more if they’re

eligible, if they can even live in British Columbia anymore, under this

government. Affordable housing has gotten so bad under the NDP that

they’ve even secretly called in outside auditors Ernst and Young to send

their housing plan back to the drawing board to be looked at.

The NDP’s failures have real impacts on people. We know this. We

look at Gianna from Maple Ridge: “Our rent is half of our income. We

don’t even have the room to save, between paying off whatever debts that

we have. We have to have a cell phone bill” — we know those aren’t cheap

— “and the rent itself is extremely expensive. All our expenses just

leave nothing for savings.”

Instead of grandiose statements and broken promises, maybe the

Premier can try something different and deliver on a promise to help

bring relief for the renters of British Columbia. Will they do that

today?

Hon. S. Robinson: I thank the member for the question.

We’ve continued to address housing in this province since we

formed government in 2017. I know the members really don’t like that

we’ve been active on this file. I know that they don’t like that we have

been making progress, whether it was fixing the fixed-term-lease

loophole that they said was too complicated — it was the very first

thing that we did as a government — or the fact that we eliminated the

additional 2 percent automatically on every year. We eliminated that.

That saved thousands of dollars for British Columbians.

We’re continuing to work on all the elements of the 30-point plan.

Every single of those 30 points has been worked on or completed. I’m

sure that the Housing Minister has all the specific details on all the

ones that are complete. I want to say it’s 11 are complete, or it could

be 16. If the members want clarity, we can certainly get that for

them.

[10:25 a.m.]

The other thing I want to leave the members with is that one of

the things that we’ve certainly been seeing since we formed government

is that the average hourly wages in B.C. have increased more than any

other province in Canada. And that’s good news for British

Columbians.

SUBSIDIZED HOUSING FOR SENIORS

S. Bond: I might point out to the minister there’s a huge difference

between making promises and making progress. I can tell you which side

this minister is on.

One of the key elements that this Housing Minister has forgotten

to pay attention to in five years is the supply side — completely

missing in action. So while the Finance Minister stands up and makes

everything sound like she understands it, let’s look at what the average

family is facing in British Columbia: $3,600 more a year in rent under

the NDP.

It’s not just young families or first-time homeowners. It’s

actually seniors as well. Yesterday a critical report from the seniors

advocate in British Columbia demonstrated that there is a growing gap

between sky-high rents and the NDP and a shrinking rent supplement. For

the first time ever — yet another record for this government — $2

million less was provided in rent subsidies to seniors than the previous

year.

This one is even more shocking, and maybe the Finance Minister is

aware of this. The number of subsidized housing units also decreased,

and guess what. It’s been shrinking over the last five years.

Today in our province….

Interjections.

S. Bond: Well, you know, it’s funny. Perhaps they’d like to

say….

Here’s the number. Today in British Columbia, there are 9,000

seniors on a wait-list. Guess what. That wait-list has grown by 45

percent. When? In the last five years under this Premier’s watch. Let’s

ask the Finance Minister, then.

Does she think it is acceptable that there are 9,000 seniors in

British Columbia, up by 45 percent under their watch…? Is that

acceptable in our province?

Hon. D. Eby: In 2018, we increased the rent ceiling for SAFER. It increased the

average monthly payment to seniors by about $78. So I don’t know what

data the member is talking about. There is 3 percent more….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. D. Eby: There is 3 percent more SAFER recipients now in British Columbia,

comparing end of year 2019 to end of year 2020. We’ve increased support

for seniors. We’re building housing for seniors, which was something

that they didn’t do. They just did not do it.

We have 10,000 homes under construction right now. When they left

government, they had 2,000 affordable homes under construction. That’s

five times.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, be quiet, please.

Hon. D. Eby: The members on the other side are so out of touch about housing.

Let me just give you an idea about how I touch on housing there. This is

the Monday morning motions from February 14. The motion was: “Be it

resolved that this House support this Government’s actions to create

affordable housing for all.”

The member for Kootenay East said: “I’d just like to say it’s

appalling that this government would put this motion forward, and I

don’t support it.”

You don’t support action on affordable housing? That’s no surprise

to me. Your actions spoke louder than words when you were on this side

of the House.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Official Opposition on a supplemental.

S. Bond: Thanks very much.

With all due respect to the Housing Minister, let’s talk about

who’s completely out of touch. The words came from an independent

officer of this Legislature, the seniors advocate of British Columbia.

Here’s the report. I’d suggest he look at page 41.

[10:30 a.m.]

He may want to stand up and be flippant about this, but let’s look

at what the facts in the report laid out. The facts speak for

themselves. “The wait-list is up 45 percent in the last four years,” in

the words of the seniors advocate of British Columbia.

Our government, for the record, created almost 13,000 new units of

seniors housing when we were in government. But guess what. Guess what

the report points out. Under the NDP…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

S. Bond: …the number of units has decreased. The report yesterday that was

released made it clear: there are less units today than there were five

years ago. The rate of seniors subsidized housing relative to the

population — guess what; news flash to the minister — decreased by 14

percent.

Guess what else happened for seniors in British Columbia. The

median wait time has increased to two years, which is a 19 percent

increase over last year — not our watch; this minister’s

watch.

The facts are clear. This two-term NDP government has been an

abysmal failure when it comes to affordability in British Columbia,

whether it’s housing or rent or groceries — or now subsidized housing

for seniors. By every single measure, this minister’s legacy is one of

failure.

Can he get up today and tell the 9,000 seniors and their families

whether it is acceptable to be on a two-year wait-list for subsidized

housing under his government’s mandate?

Hon. D. Eby: We know that there has been huge pressure on housing. We have a

significant number of people choosing to move to British Columbia,

putting pressure on our housing stock. We’ve put a huge amount of

emphasis on increasing the supply of housing available to people.

Increasing…. The member’s question was about SAFER. She suggested that

we’d reduced access, when in fact we increased access to SAFER. That was

what my point was about.

I don’t disagree with the seniors advocate that it is hard for

seniors out there. It’s hard for renters out there. We are working as

hard as we can to bring housing on.

For the member to stand up and say that in 16 years, they built

13,000 units — that’s a point of pride for them? That is a point of

pride — in 16 years, less than 1,000 units a year? And they stand up and

say: “What an accomplishment of our government. We were prepared for the

seniors.”

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members will come to order.

Hon. D. Eby: I think the members find it funny that some families live in

condos. I don’t find that funny. Families have to live in

condos.

These members…. These members are….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Members, that’s enough.

Hon. D. Eby: And 50,000 affordable units in the five years since we have formed

government — that’s a number to be proud of.

LAWSUIT BY FORMER CHILDREN IN

GOVERNMENT CARE AND

FUNDING

OF CHILD PROTECTION SYSTEM

S. Furstenau: Indigenous people in B.C. comprise less than 5 percent of the

province’s population. Despite this, Indigenous children have been and

continue to be disproportionately represented in care. Indeed, in 2020,

Indigenous children were 19 times more likely than non-Indigenous

children to be in the child welfare system.

Last September Justice Skolrood ordered certification of a class

action lawsuit in the case of K.S. vs. British Columbia and the

Ministry of Children and Family Development . The class action

was set to provide justice to children in care who were victims of the

government’s decades-long negligence. Given the disproportionate

representation of Indigenous children in government care, this class

action represented an important step towards reconciliation.

Despite this, the office of the Attorney General is now appealing

the decision to certify this class action. This government has expressed

a desire to pursue meaningful reconciliation. However, it is actively

fighting against justice for Indigenous children in care.

My question is to the Attorney General and Minister Responsible

for Housing. How can the government be committed to reconciliation while

actively fighting against justice for children that have survived the

child welfare system?

[10:35 a.m.]

Hon. M. Dean: Thank you to the member for the question.

As she mentioned and as she knows, the matter is before the court,

so it is not possible for me to speak to the particular matter that she

mentions.

I would like to acknowledge, however, that Indigenous children and

youth have been overrepresented in the child welfare system for far too

long. Our government is absolutely committed to a transformation of the

system to make sure that Indigenous communities are able to exercise

jurisdiction and take care of their children and youth and families in

the way that they want to.

We know that it’s critical for the health and well-being of

children and youth to be connected to family, community and culture.

We’ve already made changes to provincial law. We’ve been investing in

Indigenous communities for children to stay with aunties or grandmas or

people in the community so they continue to have that connection. We are

absolutely committed to working in partnership with Indigenous

communities, rights holders and leadership to transform the system and

to make sure that Indigenous children and youth stay connected to their

families.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.

S. Furstenau: I wasn’t asking for a comment on the case. I was asking for this

government to reconcile how it justifies spending money to fight against

survivors of the child welfare system instead of spending that money to

support them.

For 50 years, the B.C. government has failed to apply for benefits

and compensation for tens of thousands of children in care who have been

the victims of crime. For decades, children have been taken from their

families only to be neglected by the government that was supposed to be

taking care of them. On CTV News , the representative plaintiff

stated: “I made suicide attempts as a child, and I still struggle with

suicidal ideation to this day. I wonder what my life could have been

like if I had had timely access to those benefits.”

In the throne speech given just last week, this government said

that they were committed to healing the wounds of the past, but this

issue is not only from the past. This government is choosing to spend

public funds and resources to fight the victims of the child welfare

system instead of, as has happened in other provinces, working

collaboratively with them and compensating them for the decades of

neglect that they experienced as wards of the province.

My question is to the Attorney General. How does the Attorney

General justify spending money to fight survivors of the child welfare

system instead of spending money to support them?

Hon. M. Dean: This is a serious issue — the overintrusion of government into the

lives of children and families in Indigenous communities. It has gone on

for far too long, and our government is committed to reconciliation and

to making sure that children, youth and families are properly supported

and that communities exercise jurisdiction so that children and youth

remain connected to their family, community and culture, because we know

that that is the most successful outcome for those children and youth

and their communities.

We have been doing work to change this. We currently have the

lowest number of Indigenous children and youth in care in 20 years. And

there is a lot more work to do. We are supporting and investing

additional funding, for example, into cultural connections programs, and

Budget 2021 provided more than $13 million of new money to support

alternatives to care so that Indigenous children and youth can stay with

family.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Minister, continue.

Hon. M. Dean: Our government is making choices of investing in children and

youth and families. There’s a lot more to be done, and we are committed

to achieving that transformational change.

TAX POLICIES AND GAS PRICES

P. Milobar: We’re hearing time and again about the affordability crisis and

the lack of action from this government, be it on rental housing, be it

on seniors rental housing, be it on gas prices. We’ve heard time and

again from this Premier that he had a plan to bring down the price of

gas. It hasn’t happened. We’re seeing record-high gas prices now. We

have the highest gas taxes in North America.

[10:40 a.m.]

The NDP has used every tool in the toolbox to try to constrain our

supply through the Trans Mountain pipeline, and now, as of January 1,

there are new rules from the provincial government that are further

shutting off access to fuel from Alberta.

We’ve heard the minister talk about trying to deflect again by

having the BCUC do yet another review of gas pricing in British

Columbia, which we all know last time was a bit of a sham. Government

policy on taxation was excluded. They were not allowed to look at

that.

To the Premier, if we are going to see the BCUC be asked to do

another review of gas prices, will they actually stop interfering, let

the BCUC actually do their job, and look at the impact of government

policy, government taxation on the gas prices in British Columbia so we

can explain why we have the highest gas prices ever seen in British

Columbia under this Premier’s watch?

Hon. B. Ralston: As the Minister of Energy, my responsibility is to make sure that

B.C. consumers are treated fairly by gas wholesalers and retail chains.

That’s why we initiated the Fuel Price Transparency Act, and that’s why

the BCUC, the energy watchdog, is investigating retail prices and the

setting of those retail prices here in British Columbia.

What’s clear in the opposition’s approach is that all they wish to

do is give a huge gift to the major oil and gas companies. What Werner

Antweiler, the professor at the Sauder School of Business, said

is….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. B. Ralston: The focus of the taxes that we see from the B.C. Liberals would

not change the retail price whatsoever. It wouldn’t change prices. It

would boost the profits of the oil and gas companies. That’s their

solution. They’re in bed with the oil and gas companies and not with the

citizens of British Columbia.

Mr. Speaker: Kamloops–North Thompson, supplemental.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Order, please. Order. Members will come to order now —

all members. You’re wasting very precious time, Members.

P. Milobar: This side of the House is actually on the side of average British

Columbians that are now spending….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Order, please. Members will come to order now.

Member will continue.

P. Milobar: The peanut gallery is certainly lively today.

Average British Columbians are spending $45 a fill more for their

minivan under this Premier’s watch, average British Columbians whose

affordability is completely going off the charts.

It’s interesting that this minister wants to talk about

transparency, from the most secretive government in Canada. They’ve

ignored the mounting unaffordability. They ignore that supply is any

issue at all when it comes to the pricing of anything — housing, gas.

You name it.

We have the highest gas taxes in North America, and we have

government policy that is further restricting supply, putting pressure

on the prices. In fact, I have a customer pricing notification from a

fuel supplier in Alberta, and it says: “Due to government restrictions

in….”

Interjections.

[10:45 a.m.]

P. Milobar: You may want to listen. I have news for the members opposite. Our

gas comes from Alberta.

“Due to government restrictions in B.C., we are unable at this

time to sell fuel from Alberta into B.C. past December 31, 2021.” That’s

government of British Columbia policy that is restricting the gas supply

into the B.C. market. If they do ship it in by truck, they have to pay

an extra 25-cent fee to the provincial government to be allowed to fill

up at their gas station.

When will this minister allow the BCUC to actually look at

government policy, government taxation, and explain why we have the

highest gas prices in North America under his government’s

watch?

Hon. B. Ralston: It’s clear that this member chooses to focus on taxes. On April 1,

the carbon tax will raise the price of gasoline one cent. That does not

explain the increases that British Columbians have seen at the pumps.

It’s discouraging and disappointing, from the party that brought in the

carbon tax…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. B. Ralston: …to hear the member argue against a measure that has proven to

reduce emissions, encourages sustainable economic development and funds

continued investment in low-carbon alternatives. That’s the position of

the B.C. Liberals on the carbon tax.

I n BC INVESTMENT CORP. ACTIVITIES AND

SALE OF PERSONAL HEALTH INFORMATION

T. Stone: Last year the most secretive government in Canada exempted half a

billion dollars of taxpayers’ money from the scrutiny of FOI. The

Minister of Jobs claimed at the time that his high-risk venture capital

scheme would be making investments by last fall. He also said that he

hoped that there would be a business plan put out “in the very near

future.”

Well, after almost a year since the scheme was announced, there is

no chief investment officer, they haven’t published any investment

criteria, they haven’t pushed a single dollar out the door for economic

recovery, and there still isn’t a business plan. If only results

mattered to this government. But like housing, gas prices and

affordability, this government simply can’t deliver.

Let’s come back to the secrecy element of this high-risk

investment scheme. There’s a pretty good reason why the government

doesn’t want the public to have access to any of the information about

this scheme. We’ve obtained documents that hint at what some of those

activities might be within the scheme.

I’ll read a quote. “The B.C. government has access to incredible

data sets, including via the B.C. Cancer Society. Allowing that data to

be accessed and monetized could be a huge draw.” Let me repeat that.

This government is thinking about selling cancer patient data for

investment purposes. No wonder this government is so darn secretive

about InBC.

The question to the Premier is this. Is the reason that this

government is not subjecting this high-risk venture capital scheme to

FOI because they’re looking to sell British Columbians’ personal health

data, like that from the B.C. Cancer Society, and what specific personal

health information does this government plan to sell?

Hon. A. Dix: The answer to the question is no.

GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY AND RESPONSE

FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION REQUESTS

M. de Jong: It is admittedly quite an achievement, in just 4½ years, to secure

the title of most secretive government in all of Canada.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Let’s have the question, please.

[10:50 a.m.]

M. de Jong: Credit where credit is due. They’ve worked hard to secure the

title.

Just this week we saw the minister who’s actually responsible for

promoting access to information refuse to release the one document that

can confirm whether or not she was telling the truth in explaining how

the government imposed fees and actually limited people’s access to

information.

We just heard about a half-billion dollars in public money, that

the government refuses to make freedom-of-information rules

applicable.

Now, interesting, I guess, to end the week, another decision from

the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner — this one

involving the Premier’s office directly. Another attempt by the Premier,

the Premier’s office and the government to withhold

information.

In rejecting the Premier’s arguments in favour of withholding the

information, here’s what the adjudicator had to say about those

arguments. She characterized the Premier’s arguments as, in her view,

“vague, cryptic, speculative and hypothetical” and refused the

government’s attempt to withhold the information that was subject to

this application.

My question is actually to the minister responsible for protecting

access to information. What specific steps has she taken to address this

culture of secretiveness, from the most secret government in Canada,

that revealed itself, yet again, in this ruling from the adjudicator,

who described the approach of the government as “vague, cryptic,

speculative and hypothetical”?

Hon. L. Beare: I’m really happy to answer this question.

I absolutely continue to be astounded by the members opposite and

their assertions around openness and transparency. I mean, we all do not

forget how the Opposition House Leader, who just asked a question about

this before, was responsible….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. L. Beare: His office was responsible for triple delete. His own staff had to

whistleblow after colleagues deleted emails regarding the Highway of

Tears, after an FOI request came in.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. L. Beare: We should just hear from the member himself. Why don’t we do

that?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Let’s hear the answer, please. Members will come to

order.

Hon. L. Beare: Oh, I am answering. Thank you.

Okay, we’re going to hear from the member himself. “I have

triple-deleted my emails from time to time.” Now, I know we were also

all shocked to learn when the member also removed pages from an ICBC

document before releasing it to the public, resulting in the infamous

dumpster fire we have.

The member who just asked the question is famous for not using

government emails to conduct government business.

This is the record of the B.C. Liberals. They want to know my

record, and they want to know what I’ve done to improve openness and

transparency. Happy to tell the members, because I think it’s important

to correct this record.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members will come to order. That’s enough,

please.

Interjections.

Hon. L. Beare: I just said I was answering the question.

I’m very happy…. I think we need to correct this record. Under the

B.C. Liberals, there was no obligation to document decisions made by

government. We fixed that. We’ve increased proactive disclosures by 75

percent here in B.C. I’ve added six additional categories since I came

in.

These are ministers’ estimates binders. These are budget binders.

Arguably….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, it’s not going to help. She is going to make her answer.

So let’s listen to it, okay?

Hon. L. Beare: This is arguably the most valuable information available online to

all for free.

[10:55 a.m.]

We’ve increased the amount of data sets available to people and

organizations to 3,200. I’ve implemented mandatory breach reporting,

increased the number of public bodies that fall under FOIPPA. Oh, I

added a new offence for willfully deleting documents like they did. Had

the Opposition House Leader triple-deleted right now under our watch, it

would have cost the member a $50,000 fine.

We’re consulting in this province — more than any other government

before us. Yeah. We are currently at about 250 consultations, because

it’s important to hear from people.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Order.

Hon. L. Beare: That’s double what those members did.

That’s our record. That’s my record on openness and

transparency.

Thank you for the time, Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Abbotsford West.

Any other member to perform? No? All right.

[End of question period.]

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call continued second reading debate, Bill 4, Skilled Trades BC

Act.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 4 — SKILLED TRADES BC

ACT

(continued)

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Members. We are about to proceed with the second

reading continuation. So if you have other conversations, feel free to

have them elsewhere so we can listen to the other members share their

points of view.

Interjection.

B. Stewart: Good morning. I don’t know what the Minister of Health is thinking

I’m going to speak about. I want to speak about Bill 4, which I know

is…. There are skills required in health. Don’t get me wrong. I’m

thrilled that we are doing so much here in British Columbia. That’s

actually what I wanted to really talk about.

Of course, yesterday when I was speaking about this, I was talking

about the fact that there is this skills shortage and the fact that with

this type of regulation change, in terms of apprenticeship…. We,

obviously, are very concerned about the lack of spaces that either don’t

exist around the province for certain trades or the fact that there is

no expansion contemplated or mentioned here. Of course, we may see

changes in that.

I do want to just follow up on some of the people I’ve known in

life — besides my career as just a backyard farm welder and repairman of

all sorts of shapes and sizes, without any apprenticeship.

[11:00 a.m.]

I think of a couple of people, who are journeymen, in my life:

Nick Lang, who is a mason, as well as Zeljko Bizecki, who came from

Zagreb. He is a master craftsman. If you happen to visit the winery that

I’m associated with, they have stonework that has been crafted by this

fella. I don’t know where Jerry learned his trade, but I can tell you

that he is able to put rocks together, see things that nobody else can

do. There’s use of a ton of fieldstone that came out of the fields right

around the old Allison homestead and the new shop.

I think about what that takes to learn. How do you actually teach

that in school and do that? I think the apprenticeship is certainly

something that is extremely valuable.

Stonemasons or bricklayers and concrete finishers — there’s only

one school in British Columbia for those people. That’s not very helpful

if you want to do something with brick and block, etc., in any other

part of the prov­ince. The fact is that there should be some other

training for those types of people.

The fact that we’re increasing the regulations around the

oversight of job sites, etc., just to make certain…. Does that mean that

people that are currently working in the Interior would have to return

to this single school to be able to pick up and be, essentially, red

seal certified? I mean, I’m sure that Jerry Bizecki, for instance, or

Nick Lang are probably more than qualified, even over the instructor, to

be able to do the job of making certain that they can put stonework

together, build fireplaces and things like that. Frankly, I’m a little

bit surprised that there hasn’t been more stated by the minister, or

even the Minister of Education — the fact that we’re going to come

together on this.

I go to the Minister of Education. I know, when we did our jobs

plan…. I mentioned the former Minister of Jobs — and Advanced Education

Minister. When she did her jobs plan in the early 2013-2014 period, the

jobs plan specifically looked at trades and people that are in those

specific trades and where the shortages were. We increased the spaces in

Prince George and the Okanagan in some of those places, but we still

need to do more. The situation is….

The real bottleneck appears to be in the fact that the attraction

to going into the trades is not something that is seen as glamourous

yet. I can honestly remember being at a life skills kind of graduation

with the senior school at Mount Boucherie Secondary. One of the people

that I had a chance to meet…. His family was in the logging business. He

was graduating, but the day he graduated, he was going out into the

field to work with his family, running equipment, harvesting and doing

those types of things. I’m thinking: he had the opportunity because of

his family. You need to know somebody special.

What we really do need is people that are in those schools to make

certain that people that maybe are not going to be scientists or people

that bring all sorts of great things to our lives…. They have other

skills, and they’re able to put and see these things, etc. We need to do

a superior job in the education system to make certain that people

understand that. What do we do in schools to help excite people about

that? Do we bring people in to show them how they can build things and

put them together? That’s something that I think we should be talking

about with this type of legislation.

As I mentioned yesterday, the jobs of apprenticeship is something

that the independent contractors in British Columbia, several of them,

have done a superior job in trying to regulate and put that all on to

the backs of certain organized labour, where they have a

part in it too.

The situation is that it takes everybody to help fill the skills. I know

the plan that’s coming out in a few minutes here, talking about the

economic recovery, is going to require skilled people. The situation is

that we have to directly address that.

Mr. Speaker, I know that there’s lots that has been said about

this, and I look forward to further debate on Bill 4 as it comes to

third reading. I thank you very much for allowing me to finish

up.

H. Yao: I want to first take a moment to express my support for Bill 4.

Before I continue, I would like to address a little elephant I have

seen, during the debate yesterday, in regard to Bill 4.

[11:05 a.m.]

I just want to take a moment to say thank you to some of the

members from both the opposition and also on the government side. For

example, I would like to thank Kelowna-Mission for her artistic delivery

of her speech. I want to thank the Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture

and Sport for her fiery, passionate speech. I also want to take a moment

to thank Vancouver–False Creek for her calm demeanour.

I want to thank every member in here who represents a constituency

— whether it’s based on gender, ethnicity, language barriers, culture or

even just a language skill set — for defending and fighting for your

constituents. I do want to emphasize that all of us are here to support

constituents, and we’re here to talk about facts, information and what

we can do to better our constituents.

As I move forward, I would like to first talk about the importance

of this mandatory skilled-trades certificate. I heard a different sort

of argument explicitly talking about a lack of space, lack of spots,

lack of seats in the schools. It helped me reflect that in 2003, the

requirement for a skilled-trades certificate was eliminated. I think

that sort of paved the way to allow the industry not to focus on the

importance of continually cultivating the importance of skilled-trade

individuals to have standardized performance, to have standardized

training and to have a healthy and strong certification program to

provide good-paying jobs for individuals who are involved in the trade

sector.

Our government, through this process, demonstrated one thing. It

demonstrated our principle that we are here to invest. I know different

governments have a different principle base, but our B.C. NDP government

continues its focus that British Columbians are our biggest asset and

our greatest asset when it comes to economic growth and

success.

That is the reason why we are putting so much effort into how we

can strengthen British Columbia by creating better-paying jobs, jobs

that will help them raise their family, jobs that will help us increase

the ability to afford to live in British Columbia.

We just talked about an earlier labour market report. About one

million jobs are going to be available, and 85,000 will be trades-based.

We need to be prepared for that.

If you don’t mind, I’ll take a moment to really reflect on what

COVID-19 has done to us. It has shown us the importance of investing in

health care, the importance of also investing in education. We have a

shortage of nurses and doctors right now, and we’re struggling with it.

But it doesn’t mean we’re going to remove our certification program so

that anybody who has a first-aid certificate can go and become a

doctor.

We are training everybody, because British Columbians deserve

proper, sufficient and appropriate services. That is the reason why I’m

such a big believer in defending that we continuously find ways to

invest for tomorrow by investing in British Columbians.

Bill 4 is definitely a perfect example of how we’re looking at a

future one million jobs and 85,000 trade jobs, and we’re going to create

a standard, a proper preparation so individuals who enter the workforce

will be ready to enter the workforce properly. They’ll have the proper

training. They’ll have the proper standardization.

It is understandable that to many, it could be perceived as a

challenge and a barrier. But in my opinion, it is actually helping us to

increase not just the prestige but the standardization of our trade

service providers. I think they should have the proper

training.

A few other things I do want to reflect on. First things first,

we’ll talk about additional apprenticeship advisers. I personally came

from a background of a career practitioner. One thing I’ve learned is it

is hard navigating through different options, different challenges and

different requirements going through careers. By having individuals with

experience who have the proper training to guide you through the

process, we are reducing unnecessary time wasted. We’re increasing

a trade to be able to say, “This is where I want to go,” and have

someone to say: “I’m ready to take you there.”

I’m so glad that in Bill 4, we’re talking about the importance of

increasing apprenticeship advisers, because we need to provide that

guidance. I know many young individuals. I used to be a youth worker.

They are individuals who are talented. They are smart, they’re gifted,

they are resourceful, and they’re able to do a lot of research on their

own. But there’s nothing that can replace a good work experience

individual who knows what they’re doing.

That’s the reason why I really enjoy this

journeyman-and-apprenticeship ratio that is happening too, to make sure

people have the proper attention being given to them so they’re not just

getting lukewarm training. They’re getting top-notch training to prepare

them for the career of their choice.

I also want to say kudos to the Minister of Advanced Education and

Skills Training — that we’re going to find a way to increase

participation for women, Indigenous people and underrepresented groups

in the trades.

[11:10 a.m.]

One million jobs are going to be coming. We’re going to try to

ensure that we’re going to fill them as quickly and as appropriately as

we can. But we cannot compromise our standards. We must ensure everybody

who enters the field is ready to do the work and has similar standards

so that they can be transferable from one employer to another

employer.

Our goal here is really to say that we are here to support our

British Columbians, making sure that they have something that can be

utilized — similar to a high school graduation certificate, similar to a

bachelor’s degree — and that’s recognizable, universally, among

employers. We’re also going to be providing opportunities for 75,000

high school students to discover, explore, train and work in the

trades.

I remember when I used to be a high school student. It’s

unfortunate — and I’ll be perfectly honest — that my family discouraged

me from getting involved in trades. Many people have the false

perception that the trades are really for individuals who don’t really

have anywhere else to go. But when I graduated from university, I

started doing various jobs. I saw my fellow colleagues who were

electricians, who were carpenters or who were plumbers and who were

succeeding in their careers, and I could not but envy them. I almost

wanted to say: “Those are professionals.” We should not be creating

certain kinds of classes but really be finding different ways to raise

them up through post-secondary education.

By standardizing and having mandatory skilled trades certificates,

we are allowing individuals to actually have the proper training

standards to be able to enter into the field and be accepted by

employers. Employers can have a sense of comfort, knowing that no matter

where the individual comes from, their certification will provide a

basic, standard, training skill set that ensures that they’re sufficient

to do the work.

We also all understand that the trades — unfortunately, at this

moment — are pretty dominated by young male British Columbians. This

also, as published and according to WorkSafeBC, has the highest injuries

at worksites. Proper training of utilizing equipment, proper training on

how to work with their colleagues and proper training on utilizing their

skill sets will ensure that an individual will be able to go to work

with excitement and return home safely, and ensures that we will reduce

unnecessary tragedies that break our families and reduce a person’s

chance to pursue a passion in their vocation.

I do want to say that throughout this whole process, when I’m

looking at all of this, we continuously return back to square one. The

B.C. NDP government is placing British Columbians as our priority as we

invest in British Columbians. The skilled trades set alone is allowing

us to ensure, in the different fields, that we’re laying the foundation

for our future investments. I understand that next year’s budget is

coming out pretty quickly, and I know that our Minister of Finance’s

lovely presentation is ready to come out.

I think the key fact is that we’ll continue to demonstrate to

British Columbians and build for just one piece of a continuation of how

we will bring the skilled trades sector up to date. We will be matching

the other provincial governments in Canada to ensure that individuals

who are working British Columbians will be ready to take on

opportunities. In the next ten years, over one million jobs are going to

become available, with 85,000 jobs in the trades sectors.

We’re here to fight for our British Columbians. We’re laying a

step-by-step foundation. I understand many opposition members might say:

“We would love to see everything comprehensively prepped right away.” We

understand. Everybody has a similar preference. We would love to see

that everything is ready to go.

That’s why our ministers are all working hard with the Minister of

Finance to ensure that we continue to come up with different steps to

ensure that Bill 4 will be the lovely starting point to making sure that

we have mandatory certification for skilled trades and to ensure that we

continue moving forward. We will continue finding ways to encourage

industry sectors — additionally, post-secondaries — to create more seats

to accommodate them, to find different ways to making sure that our

British Columbians, wherever they are in the province, are able to

conveniently and effectively pick up a skilled trade of their choice and

serve their community and serve a sector according to their

preference.

Without much else to say, I want to take a moment to thank the

hon. Speaker for allowing me to speak, and I thank all the members in

this House for sharing their views and defending constituents. I will

end my speech here.

Deputy Speaker: Recognizing the member for Peace River South.

[Applause.]

[11:15 a.m.]

M. Bernier: I appreciate that. Thank you for the enthusiasm. I appreciate the

Minister of Health also jumping in on that one again. I feel like it’s

not just other members that get the applause from him. So thank

you.

It’s really interesting getting up to speak about Bill 4. I won’t

take a lot of time, but I do want to highlight a few things first of

all, not only from a personal, local level but also my provincial

understanding of this as well. Even in my former life as the Minister of

Education…. I was very fortunate to have that role for a while and some

of the things I saw and learned as I travelled around the

province.

I don’t know if this is the case or not; people can correct me if

I’m wrong. I’m probably one of the only members in this House that is

actually a tradesperson. I actually have been a tradesperson, a licensed

tradesperson for about 30 years. I hold multiple trades, everything from

carpentry to gas fitting. I’ve got my A ticket. I’ve got my welding

ticket. I’m very diverse, I guess, in the trades that I was fortunate

enough to get involved in. But none of those, because it’s 25 or 30

years ago, are classified as red seal. Even though I have been doing a

lot of this for 30 years, according to comments that I have been hearing

from the members opposite, I don’t have a skill set anymore.

People in this province who have been working hard building this

province for decades, according to comments I’m hearing from the NDP,

didn’t do a good job because they didn’t have a red seal certification.

When I’m hearing comments that you need to have a red seal in order to

be accredited…. Basically, as some of the members here said, it is a

prestige. The member for Langley mentioned it is a prestigious thing. It

is prestigious — don’t get me wrong — but it’s not the only thing that

qualifies somebody to have a skill set.

Let me give an example, a local example. We had the unfortunate

situation where I had a couple of mines in my riding shut down in the

last few years, about 1,000 to 1,200 people out of work. The majority of

them were trained on the job when they were 19, 20 years old and worked

for 25, 30, 35 years in the mine as mechanics, on the mining equipment,

as heavy equipment operators. They knew how to run that mine better than

anybody.

Fast-forward a couple of years later. Fortunately, a new mine

opens up. But the rules have now changed. That experience and that

knowledge that was able to put food on the table for decades is no

longer recognized. That 55-year-old man or woman who spent 30, 35 years

driving that heavy equipment around mining no longer was eligible to

apply for a job because they didn’t have what this government wanted

under new certification — proof, with a ticket, that they could do the

work. So a 22-year-old, fresh out of school, who has never even really

done the work before, never been on a mine before, was able to get the

job over a 55-year-old person who has been doing it for 35 years because

of changes around accreditation.

Now, I don’t want to send the message that accreditation,

training, skill sets that come with the education are not important. Of

course it is. We all agree in this House that we need to have the best

education possible before people can go work on the jobsite to make sure

they’re doing the job properly and to make sure they’re safe.

To get to a point where they’re saying to have a red seal or these

tickets now discredits the people who have been working so hard and

building this province is very unfortunate. We even found out

yesterday…. One of the members from the NDP even used me as an

example.

[11:20 a.m.]

Don’t worry. I have to go back to school. At 55 years old, I have

to go back to school. I have five years now to go back to school to

recertify all of my tickets to a red seal. Otherwise, I lose this

certification, and I can no longer work in the trades.

How is that fair to so many people? I can see on a bridging

component, but nothing is talked about there. I can see about on a

go-forward basis, but nothing is really talked about there. This

government is trying to make it as of now.

The member from…. Actually, I’m not going to get into that right

away, because I do want to maybe finish on some of the

comments.

Let me just say that, look, we all acknowledge that we’re facing a

labour shortage. In the trades, specifically, in the next almost eight,

ten years, they’re saying 75,000 additional tradespeople are going to be

needed in this province. That’s part of the one million people that

we’ve heard talked about for the labour shortage.

When we were in government, we also recognized the labour shortage

issue. I’m glad that this government is recognizing and continuing on

with the understanding that skills acquired and that are needed in the

trades…. We need that on a go-forward basis in our province to continue

keeping up with the housing supply, with our condos and apartments that

are being built, our commercial properties, our road networks — you name

it. We need trade skill sets for all of those.

We’re already seeing, right now, wait-lists of up to three to four

years just to get into the trades. I’ve heard nothing from this

government. They’re trying to pat themselves on the back that they’re

changing a regulation to require a red seal, but I’ve heard nothing that

says this is what we’re going to do to solve the problem of wait-lists,

this is what we’re going to do to encourage more people to get into the

trades, this is what we’re going to do to for communities all around

British Columbia to make it accessible.

I know — this is not a dig at government, it’s a fact — there are

not too many members on the NDP side that live north of Hope in rural

British Columbia. Maybe they don’t understand the fact and the stresses

and the challenges of somebody who lives in Fort Nelson who is told that

they have to now go all the way to BCIT in Burnaby.

They are fortunate enough, because when we were in government, we

did build a trades centre in Dawson Creek — very proud of that, what we

did. I’m also appreciative to the now Minister of Tourism. At the time,

she was the Minister of Advanced Education.

I will say I was envious and jealous of her in this, because we

did all the work. We built it, and about a one-month timeline lapsed and

she got to come up and cut the ribbon as the new minister. I’m looking

forward to doing the same on the new hospital, when the Minister of

Health comes up to cut the ribbon and I get to be in the background

waving, but I’ll still take a lot of pride in that

announcement.

We recognized that this was important, and that was all part of

our skills-for-jobs blueprint and the work around understanding with LNG

and with all of the skills that were needed. We did that work

recognizing that. I’m appreciative of that, but that only covers a few

of the trades.

What makes me nervous now is my son is just finishing second year

of his carpentry apprenticeship. What is this going to mean to Northern

Lights College in my area? Are they going to get additional funding? Are

they going to get additional seats? Is my son going to get halfway

through his apprenticeship and now be back on a waiting list and not be

able to finish?

I think most of us in this House that are parents, specifically,

know we do what we can to assist and encourage our children, but at the

end of the day, they need to put food on the table as well. They need to

raise their families.

[11:25 a.m.]

Although the light at the end of the tunnel, as we’ll say, of a

red seal and having that certification is important for a future and for

jobs, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to give up, a

lot that will be discouraged and not go in.

Even though the member for Langley…. Yesterday he was on a radio

show, and he referenced a PricewaterhouseCoopers report, saying that

boosting the prestige of the trades by requiring red seal certification

will result in an increase in registrations in apprenticeships. Well,

just going out there and saying: “By the way, this specific trade….” It

is only ten of about 30 or more. Only these ten are being picked. But

saying that just because this specific trade is now classified on a list

as red seal — now saying that it gives it extra prestige — so all of a

sudden, children are just going to be lining up to do it — well, I don’t

see that happening.

In fact, the member for Langley can cherry-pick that specific

comment, but I went and looked at the report after that. I found it very

interesting that the government would now reference a

PricewaterhouseCoopers report when, in fact, a good majority of what’s

said in that report…. I’m going to quote some of these things that are

talked about on pages 5, 6, 7, 9. There’s a whole bunch of information

in this report.

It starts with things like: “This policy will have an adverse

effect on workers in the trades who already experience barriers, such as

Indigenous workers, recent immigrants, people with disabilities and

based on interviews that were done with a select group of stakeholders

that they did.

It also references some of the challenges. “Compulsory trades will

have a negative impact on the trades in general. Immigrants who

currently work in the trades will be most adversely affected if

compulsory trades are brought in. Compulsory trades do not allow for the

flexibility needed in fields like home-building. Any expansion into the

trades related to the building could result now in higher housing costs

or more delays in construction and supply.”

Another angle that is talked about in here is about the negative

impacts to the economy. If it does lead to a worker shortage, which they

think it may, this will also have impacts on B.C.’s economic

productivity. I mean, we all have seen the cost overruns and the

additional costs in this province after this government brought in the

union benefit agreements — and how prices have skyrocketed to get work

done around the province on jobs, at a time when we are talking about

B.C. being one of the worst places in North America when it comes to

affordability. It’s one of the hardest places.

If you are fortunate enough to be able to raise up a down

payment…. We know it can take decades. That’s been reported. But if

you’re fortunate enough, usually with help from family, to get into the

housing market, the prices have never been higher. The availability, the

supply has never been lower. As we talked about earlier today, the

average family now is paying $3,600 a year more in rent, if they’re

fortunate enough to find a place that they can even rent and afford. And

now this government is trying to bring in more regulation and red tape

that is only going to increase the costs.

I’ve been fortunate enough, in my different careers, to work for

companies and work for my own company to build houses here in British

Columbia: in West Van, Burnaby, Vancouver before I moved up north, and

then in Dawson Creek now — and even some in Terrace that I worked

on.

[11:30 a.m.]

I understand, as well as many others on this side of the House,

the economics that are required when you’re having to decide on whether

you can not only afford to build a product, but are you going to be able

to do it in a way that’s going to meet a price point that people can

afford to then move into?

Every single piece that is added on to the development, whether

it’s through increased labour costs, increased supply costs, delays in

construction, development cost charges…. I could go on and on. But all

of those — I think most people should understand, and they should

realize — get passed on to the person. That gets passed on to the person

through increased rents. That gets passed on to families through the

increase in the cost of a home, and we’re seeing that right

now.

I think most people, especially if you’re in Surrey and growing

communities like that, will see how many people are working in the

trades. I drive through Surrey. I drive through Richmond. I see the

growth. I see the amount of people who are working in these sectors. I

also know that they do that not only because of the jobs and the

opportunities that are there, but it’s a dang good living. People are

already able, in this sector, in these trades, to be employed and to

make a good living. Why this government wants to complicate that by

adding more red tape astounds me.

What’s also upsetting is how…. We’ve already talked about how

secretive this government is. But if they really want to talk about

putting something forward like this and say that this is for the benefit

of British Columbians, why didn’t they actually talk to the majority of

people who actually do this work?

I look at an organization like the ICBA, for instance, who hire

and do more apprentices around First Nations people in our province,

women. They have done an amazing job — them, the companies that work

with them, that are part of their organization. They weren’t invited to

the table. They weren’t asked an opinion.

It would appear, on the face, that this government once again went

to their union friends and said: “What do you want us to do?” But we’re

going to exclude 75 percent or more — actually, it’s more than that — of

the province that work in this sector that are non-union.

Interjection.

M. Bernier: It’s 85. Thank you. It’s 85 percent.

I’m not trying to discredit unions. I’m a 25-year member of the

IBEW myself, with the electrical workers. What I’m trying to say is that

this should not be about one group being asked and not another. This is

about trying to fix a problem, if the government sees this. It’s trying

to create more spaces and help people get into the trades. It shouldn’t

be about putting up barriers.

Now, again, red seal is important. I’m not taking away from that.

But to tell people that, now, if you don’t have a red seal, you are all

of a sudden less of a person, you are less qualified, you are less able

to do the work…. That’s what I’ve heard from numerous members on the

government side.

Interjections.

M. Bernier: I’d almost like the heckling to be louder. I can’t hear or

understand what’s being said down there because it’s so muffled through

the mask, but I do appreciate the comments.

I believe what the member from Surrey is acknowl­edging….

He’s agreeing with me that they should have done a better job. I think

that’s what he’s saying, because again, I look at communities like

Surrey, like White Rock, like Richmond, and to a smaller extent, parts

of rural British Columbia that are growing. They need the skills. They

need the skill set. They need the people that are willing to get into

the trades. Nobody is arguing that in this House.

[11:35 a.m.]

What we’re saying is: why would this government actually make it

harder? Why would they put up barriers? Why would they make the

timelines, in some ways, so unrealistic? To hear yesterday that I was

told: “Just go back to school for five years….” Do we really think that

there are going to be a lot of people that are 50, 55, 60 years old that

are now told that in order to keep their job or to get paid on that

scale, they have to go back to school? Even though you have been doing

the work for 35 years, you now have to go back for upgrading to get your

red seal.

I guarantee you. If we’re talking about a labour shortage right

now, this government has just increased it. People are going to say:

“You know what? I don’t need that. I can go across the street and make

$35 an hour as a labourer. I’ll take a $5- or $10-an-hour pay cut from

my last five years — don’t have to go through all the crap and hassle

that this government is trying to impose on me — and retire that way.”

Or even worse, just leave the workforce altogether and go do something

else. How is that going to help the issue?

To tell my child and anybody else that it could take up to ten

years to be a carpenter or an electrician, to get your red seal…. It

could take up to ten years? You could be a doctor in that time. You

could be a lot of things in that time, for sure. But it goes back to my

point. You’ve got a young family, trying to pay rent or pay for a new

child — and then being told you have to wait ten years to be fully

qualified for your job. Is that really what this government thinks is

going to encourage our youth to get into the trades?

We should be reducing the red tape. We should be collectively

talking about how important the trades are and collectively be looking

at ways to remove barriers to promote our non-union and union companies,

to promote people to get into the trades — not to put up barriers.

That’s why I can’t support this.

A. Singh: Thank you to the member for speaking.

A no-brainer. Why wouldn’t we have mandatory skills certification?

The fact of the matter is that British Columbia is an outlier, has been

since 2003 — the only province without this. Despite the fearmongering

from the other side about how there’ll be a labour shortage, how people

that have been working will be unable to work right away…. It’s not

true. There’s a phased-in built into this to protect that.

Interjection.

A. Singh: Phased-in built into this to protect into that — that’s the bottom

line here. These regulations are there for that.

Again, a no-brainer. You know what is surprising to me? Having

come from private practice, having come from the private enterprise, I

was actually shocked to know that we actually had a Minister of

Deregulation. How Orwellian is that? That’s all I could think

of.

What has government regulation done for us? It has brought us

clean water, clean air, safety standards, safer houses, safer vehicles.

That’s what this is designed to do. Government is all about choices.

What choices do we make? Why I support this bill…. I do support this

bill. What this does is it makes complete sense. Mandatory skill

certification is there to make things safer for all of us. That’s really

the crux of this bill.

What does the other side want? They want no standards. The other

thing that mandatory skill certification does…. It increases wages.

That’s the other thing the other side doesn’t want. They want those to

be stagnant.

Interjection.

A. Singh: Absolutely not. That’s exactly what happened in 2003, when you

deregulated all of these things. Again, an outlier in all of Canada. The

only province without any mandatory skill certification.

[11:40 a.m.]

A couple of weeks ago there was a forecast that there are going to

be almost one million new jobs coming into British Columbia. We continue

to lead Canada’s economic recovery with over 100,000 jobs added in 2021.

B.C.’s economy is strong right now, and forecasts show that it will

continue to grow. What this bill does is it addresses a gap there. It

addresses a gap in skill certification.

In the next decade, we’re expecting a massive range of jobs to be

opening in various occupations, and 85,000 jobs are projected in the

trades alone. We’ve seen that people are moving here not only from

overseas but from other parts of Canada. Lots of housing will need to be

built. Infrastructure will need to be built. We will need people that

are trained and that have those skills and have proof that they have

those skills to fill out those jobs. There are going to be so many

opportunities for meaningful work in British Columbia in the next few

years, and that’s exactly what this bill is there to address.

Legislation comes first. You put in a framework, and everything

else is built around it. So that’s what this bill does as well. The

training centres will come once the legislation is there.

A lot has been made by the other side about how the actual act

itself is condensed, is brief, and much is left to regulations. They

were in government for 16 years. They know that that’s really normal in

most pieces of legislation — that most of the nitty-gritty, day-to-day

things are done through regulations. Nothing unusual there. Absolutely

nothing unusual there.

Trades are absolutely critical to B.C.’s economic growth,

especially during the pandemic, during the recovery. We’ve seen that.

Tradespeople are building our homes, our bridges, our hospitals, our

schools. They take care of our automotives. They take care of things.

They fix our cars, keep our lights on. They keep our water

flowing.

We want tradespeople to be able to count on having good,

family-supporting, steady work by ensuring that they have the certified

skills they need to be first in line for these job openings. Completing

an apprenticeship to be able to get into a trade to earn certification

is one of the best ways to help them on that path, and that’s exactly

what this bill does.

Many of you know that in my past life, I was a lawyer. We do the

same thing as well. Of course, it’s lawyers, so they change the

apprenticeship to a fancy name called articling, but it’s essentially

the same thing. We apprentice with another lawyer for a whole year

before we’re able to practise. It’s an incredible experience. That’s

where you gain the skills to be able to do the work you do, those skills

that are not able to be taught in school.

That’s why this government is taking strong steps to modernize

B.C.’s trades-training system and set an absolutely new vision for the

future. As I said, government is all about choices. We choose to create

jobs that are well-paying and that will be well-paying going way into

the future. We have a rare, rare opportunity here to create a lasting

legacy for our trades training and put in a system that puts workers

first as we build a stronger and more inclusive economy and as we come

into line with the rest of the provinces in Canada.

Again, B.C. is an outlier and has been an outlier since they

deregulated things in 2003 — the only province without mandatory skilled

trades certification. That means that there are, at this point,

thousands of uncertified workers practising a trade with no formal

recognition of their skills and knowledge levels and disparate wages

that have no tie to the actual person’s skills itself, because there’s

no way to actually recognize those skills because they’re not certified.

That’s exactly what this bill does. It puts in place a procedure to be

able to do that.

We know that these workers are often paid less and have lower

rates of employment, stability and mobility, making it harder for them

to support their families. Again, that’s what this bill addresses.

Certification will give them that recognition and higher wages. This is

particularly true for those in the underrepresented groups or

equity-seeking groups — women, people of colour. With so many

experienced tradesworkers expected to retire in the next little while,

we need to make sure that there are going to be enough qualified

journeypersons to train the future trades workforce and to keep our

economy going strong.

[11:45 a.m.]

Again, much been made about the lack of actual training centres

and everything. And again, you put in the legislation, you put in the

framework, and then you put in investments for that. So that will be

coming.

What will skilled trades certification do? It’ll make sure that

workers are credentialed at the highest possible skill levels so that

they can earn the best wages possible in their industry. It’ll make the

industry more resilient in an evolving economy. We don’t live in

isolation anymore; we live in the context of the world. It’ll break down

barriers that keep underrepresented and equity-seeking groups from

accessing good-paying jobs. It’ll shift the conversation so that trades

are recognized as critical, prestigious and valuable careers that are

there in our society, to attract more youth.

That really is part of the crux of it. When you certify something,

and you recognize it…. This is why we have credentials. This is why we

have bodies across other industries. It does attract prestige. It gives

some standards to that industry, which is what is lacking at this point.

Really, again, the bottom line is: all that this legislation does is

bring us back in line with the rest of the country — the only province

not to have mandatory skills training.

What the Skilled Trades BC Act will do is it’ll will replace the

outdated Industry Training Authority Act and continue the Crown agency

responsible for apprenticeship. It’s not just a name change. It is a

change….

Interjections.

A. Singh: Oh, it’s not a name change. If it were just a name change, then

why all of this fearmongering about lack of labour, about people not

being able to work — if that was all it was. By your very

definitions

and by your very arguments, you’ve proved that it’s not a name change.

It’s much more than that. It is a change in the way that we do business.

It’s a change in the way that we treat people that work in these

industries.

This renewed vision of SkilledTradesBC reflects the expanded

responsibilities to oversee skilled trades certifi­cation. It’ll

have a new focus on promoting and supporting apprentices and trainees

throughout their training journey. It’ll establish a fair and

transparent compliance model. Every regulation needs a compliance model

to ensure that requirements are being applied consistently and employers

know that they’re working on a level playing field.

You know, this didn’t come out of anywhere. Government conducted

in-depth research and analysis into this, looking to other jurisdictions

for best practices. Again, we haven’t had this here in many years, but

we were fortunate that the rest of our provinces across Canada had this.

We sought guidance from industry, led by the stakeholder advisory

working group.

These changes also reflect what the government heard during broad

public engagement held in the summer, where the government engaged

extensively on how to best support workers, employers, Indigenous

communities, communities of colour and women to transition to skilled

trades certification and to inform this legislation that we have. This

included consultation with external stakeholders, which included

industry, labour and post-secondary trainers.

We also engaged, of course, with Indigenous leadership, with our

partners and service providers. Our efforts to engage Indigenous

partners align with the government’s commitments under the UN

declaration, including incorporating ideas directly into this

legislation. You’ll see that reflected in this legislation.

For example, it’ll be required that SkilledTradesBC “consult with

representatives” of Indigenous peoples on the development and

implementation of the strategic plan that underlies this bill. Also, in

the bill itself, you will see a new object statement that has been added

to affirm SkilledTradesBC’s strategic mandate “to promote

partici­pation of Indigenous people in the industry training and

apprenticeship” program.

What these legislative changes do is they ensure that B.C. will

have a training program for many years, but it’ll have one of the best

trades training systems and certification systems in the country. The

modernized system will build on all of the accomplishments we’ve done

over the last few years. It’ll do that by investing in additional

apprenticeship advisers to provide hands-on guidance to apprentices and

employer sponsors. It’ll do that by investing $5 million so that more

tradesworkers can start apprenticeships or upgrade their skills at a

recognized post-secondary institution.

[11:50 a.m.]

Again, you build the framework. You build in the legislation. You

put in the regulations, and the institutions come afterwards. The

investment comes afterwards. You cannot invest in something that has no

framework. That’s exactly what this bill does.

By ensuring apprentices and trades students have the most

up-to-date facilities in which to train…. It’ll ensure that we have best

practices. It’ll provide opportunities for over 7,500 high school

students to discover, explore, train and work in the trades. It’ll

increase successful partici­pation of women, Indigenous peoples

and underrepresented groups into the trades and will develop programs

that address issues that may discourage members of these groups from

pursuing a career in the skilled trades, such as bullying and

harassment.

Since March of 2019, the ITA, the predecessor, reports a 26

percent increase of women participating in trades where women have

represented less than 25 percent of registered apprentices. Since 2018,

our government has invested nearly $85 million to help build new or

upgrade existing trade centres and over $17 million in industry-standard

training, and there are more investments to come. Again, you build the

framework, and then you put in the investments afterwards. So there are

more investments to come.

Now, seeing what’s going to be happening here in the next few

years, is the time to build on the success and meet the challenges and

bring British Columbia into compliance with the rest of Canada. Really,

now is the time to ensure the trade workforce has the knowledge and

skills and that that knowledge and those skills are

recognized.

This legislation — what does it do? It gives trade workers the

recognition that they deserve and that they haven’t had for almost 20

years. It’s the road to providing good-paying stable jobs that support

families and communities. This is the reason I support this

bill.

J. Brar: I’m also really pleased to stand up in this House today to support

Bill 4, Skilled Trades BC Act, introduced by our government in this

House last week. This is a much-needed, timely and important bill for

our economy and for our future generations.

This new bill will establish a made-in-B.C. system to support and

train apprentices and modernize the Crown agency responsible for trades

training. The act lays the foundation to address labour shortages and

support and recognize the critical work that skilled tradespeople do in

British Columbia. This is a step in the right direction.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

I have been listening to the members from the other side with full

interest. They’re really struggling to defend the undefendable. There is

a difference between red tape and red seal. Red tape is a bad thing, but

red seal is a good thing that does create better skill sets and that

does create opportunity for people for better jobs. That’s the

difference they are talking about.

If you look back, last week we introduced the labour market

outlook, which forecasts job openings over the next ten years. B.C.

continues to lead Canada’s economic recovery with 100,000 jobs added in

2021. B.C.’s economy is strong, and forecasts show that it will continue

to grow.

In the next decade, we are expecting a wide range of jobs opening

in various occupations. About 80 percent of these openings will require

some form of post-secondary education. In the trades alone, we expect

85,000 job openings, with more workers retiring than entering trade

occupations. There are so many opportunities for meaningful work in B.C.

Tradespeople are critical to B.C.’s economic growth, especially during

the COVID-19 recovery.

Tradespeople are building our homes, our bridges, our hospitals

and our schools. Tradespeople are fixing our cars and keeping our lights

on and our water flowing.

Noting the hour, I reserve my right to continue my speech, and I

move adjournment of the debate.

J. Brar moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. K. Conroy moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 11:55 a.m.

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