May 4, 1998 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIII No. 18

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Penney): Order, please!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs.

MR. A. REID: Mr. Speaker, I want to provide the House today with a

status report on government's initiatives to help municipalities, especially rural

municipalities, in their efforts to maintain financial stability.

Up to this point - the latest one was on Friday, which I signed with

the town of my hon. colleague from across the way, with which and on behalf of whom he was

working so hard - fifty of our municipalities, with encouragement from my department, have

been able to refinance in excess of $100 million of government-guaranteed debt owing to

the financial corporation. Mr. Speaker, $100 million has basically been paid back to the

Newfoundland and Labrador Municipal Financial Corporation. Over $100 million has been paid

back by communities around this Province. That is a lot of money, a tremendous amount of

money.

These municipalities have refinanced this debt through banks and

private lending institutions where they were able to achieve lower interest rates - some,

Mr. Speaker, as low as 5.5 percent. This refinancing has resulted in tens of thousands of

dollars in savings to reinvest in their communities. It demonstrates good, sound financial

management by these municipalities.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, our $12 million Debt Relief Program is

enabling us to assist municipalities to regain financial stability. To date, negotiations

are ongoing or completed with up to forty municipalities, and another thirty-five

municipalities are pending.

I want to take this opportunity to commend the municipalities of the

Province who have participated in this program. They have demonstrated to us, and to the

Province, positive action in getting their financial houses in order.

This program is contributing significantly to the revitalization of

rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister today that as well, of course, we are glad to see

that fifty communities have certainly taken advantage and have gone and refinanced their

debt. I would say to the minister, though, as the Government House Leader has been heard

to say over the last few days, Minister: One size does not fit all. And I believe that in

municipalities in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, one size does not fit all as

it relates to municipalities.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: Oh, I do not worry about the man over there worrying

about my size. He should be more concerned about his own. He should watch his back, I say

to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, where he is going and where is coming from.

Anyway, I certainly will not get into that.

I just say to the minister that again, you know, we have municipalities

in our Province that have certainly been looking for assistance to retire their debt. In

some incidents with municipalities we have out-migration, and in some municipalities we

have quite a bit of out-migration.

I just say to the minister that what may be good on one side - to

increase taxes and so on - we have other municipalities around this Province, as you are

well aware, Sir, that are shutting off lights, cutting back on garbage collections and so

on. So I think we have to be very, very careful here in exactly what we are going to do

with municipalities in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform the House of an

important campaign which is under way in Canada during the month of May. It is the Green

Ribbon of Hope Campaign of Child Find Canada Incorporated.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, this is a serious statement. If hon.

members see this matter as a joke, I certainly do not.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. DECKER: That is why it is always prudent to listen before you

shoot off your mouth.

It is the Green Ribbon of Hope Campaign of Child Find Canada Inc., Mr.

Speaker.

Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador Inc. is a member of Child Find

Canada, and they are a very active group of volunteers in this Province; a group, I will

say, all of us hope we would not need to call upon. But unfortunately, all too often in

this Province, this group is searching for a missing child.

May is Green Ribbon of Hope month. Green represents a light in the

darkness for all missing children. I am wearing a green ribbon today, Mr. Speaker, and I

urge all Members of the House of Assembly and all citizens to wear a green ribbon as a

symbol of hope for the recovery of all missing children in our country. I understand the

Page is now passing out the green ribbons.

Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador spends countless hours educating

adults and children on the prevention of abduction, they promote awareness of the problem

of missing children and they assist in the location of missing children. I would like to

acknowledge, Mr. Speaker, Ms Maura Beam, President of Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador

and the Executive Director, Ms Terry Mahoney-Cleary, both of whom are in the gallery

today.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to commend Child Find Newfoundland and

Labrador for their work in this Province. Working in close co-operation with the police

forces, they provide strength and support to parents during most difficult circumstances.

I know specifically, they have been very active in search of the three missing O'Brien

boys and have played a significant role in supporting their mother, Diana.

It is unfortunate that our society is plagued with the circumstance of

missing children but to combat such circumstances we have an organization in Child Find

that do what they can to alleviate the problem. We must remain vigilant in protecting our

children. Government is very supportive of this campaign and we wish successful resolution

to each and every case which Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador finds itself involved

in.

Mr. Speaker, green ribbons are available for the hon. members to wear

today and for the entire month of May if they are so inclined.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, join with the minister in

recognizing the good work of Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador Inc., which is, of

course, a member of the parent group Child Find Canada. This organization deals with a

very real problem in our society, namely, the problem of missing children and abducted

children. As we all know, in our own Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that is an

issue which is very real amongst us. However, it is an issue which affects many parts of

the world, in particular perhaps the United States, Central America, South America and

Asia, where the issue of missing children and abducted children has become a focus of

great attention.

So, Mr. Speaker, we join with members opposite in recognizing their

good work and on behalf of the members of this side of the House we certainly wish the

best in the endeavours of Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the minister for

giving me an advance copy of his statement. I would like to join with him and the Member

for St. John's East in commending the work of Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador and

Child Find Canada in assisting those who are affected by the problem of missing and

abducted children. Mr. Speaker, it is hard to imagine the excruciating pain that parents

must go through when knowing that their child is missing and not knowing where or in what

situation they find themselves. It is a very difficult time for parents and sometimes it

ends proving quite tragic. I think the work that this organization does in assisting

parents and families, especially those who are awaiting news, is very, very important and

the organization ought to be congratulated for their efforts and I hope that their efforts

in finding, in particular, the O'Brien children prove to be successful in the end.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Before proceeding to Oral Questions, the Chair would

like to welcome to the Speaker's gallery on behalf of all hon. members, representatives of

the Atlantic Provinces Teachers' Organizations.

They include Jan Eastman, President of the Canadian Teachers'

Federation; Franois Beaulieu, President of AEFNB; Pierre Paillard, AEFNB; Clarence

Robichaud, AEFNB; Larry Jamieson, Vice-President NBTA; Mary Vick, NBTA; Ed Kilfoil, PEITF;

accompanied by Mr. Fred Andrews, Vice-President of NLTA, and Mr. Ed Hancock, NLTA.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, thank you for the new title

again.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair apologizes but is not quite sure whether the

apology should be extended to the hon. member or to the member who should be sitting in

the other chair.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It seems like I can never get rid of this job.

My questions today are for the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: I ask the Minister of Health and Community Services,

if she will inform the House if the policy has changed regarding community health nurses

taking blood from patients who are confined to their homes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J. M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, there are numerous policies and

procedures in place for any number of procedures conducted by the community health nursing

program. Certainly, if there is a change outlined through the various boards or

associations, it would have to follow the protocol, and that would be anything that can be

reasonably and prudently acknowledged and accomplished by a registered nurse.

Policies may change from time to time. Not every policy is submitted to

the Department of Health and Community Services for approval. If the member would like to

be more specific in nature of the board and the policy and what component of withdrawing

blood he is referring to, I would be happy to verify that with the existing board or the

Association.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am sure the minister should be aware of any policy change. I think it

is important as a part of her job to be up on all changes and all policies that happen

within the health care system here in our Province.

I ask the minister: Will she confirm that patients have been notified

that they will now have to pay for nurses who visit their homes to take blood if blood is

required to be taken more than once a month?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J. M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In a publicly-funded system, I can say to the member opposite that

blood is withdrawn through the various lab and X-ray services throughout the Province. I

know that service is available at any time upon appointment or referral through the

various board or hospital or clinic. To date that is as much as I will confirm without

knowing the specific board and the specific circumstances surrounding this particular

issue.

I would say again to the House, and to the Opposition House Leader and

health critic, that if he has a specific issue or concern that he would like to have

addressed, I am only too happy to assist him in finding the information as he brings it to

my attention, if he should wish to do so, outside of the House, or prior to the House at

any time, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the minister is very much aware of what I am talking about.

People are going to have to pay. If they require it more than once a month they are going

to have to pay; if they require blood to be taken two or three, four or five times a

month, they may have to pay. The minister should be aware of that. Many patients, before

they are being discharged from hospital, feel embarrassed when they are asked before they

leave if they can afford to pay for a nurse to visit their home for taking blood. Many say

yes out of embarrassment when really they cannot afford to pay. I ask the minister: Is she

now pursuing in her department a user-pay concept for certain medical services provided?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J. M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In a publicly funded health system, our services are offered for the

most part through hospitals, nursing homes and community agencies. Anyone today has an

option to go to a private clinic, if they choose to pay, for blood or other tests. If that

particular individual wants to go to a publicly funded system to have the blood withdrawn,

if it is for medical reasons, that would be covered under the policy set down under the

publicly funded system that we have. If there is an arrangement whereby, through

convenience or some other way, Mr. Speaker, a person should choose to go to a private

clinic or have someone come into their own home, that service is available to them by

choice.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a

supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe the minister did not hear the first question I asked. I asked:

For those who are confined to their homes, people very sick - one individual who called my

office and who I spoke with, who has not been out of the house since January 1, 1997, had

to go to hospital in an ambulance to get blood taken, and then back in an ambulance,

seventy-five dollars each way. Then it was done by nurses. Now people are being informed

that they are going to have to start paying if they only require it once a month.

Now, I ask the minister: Are we pursuing a user-pay concept for those

who can afford to pay it? I ask the minister again: Is she aware that this directive is

being given out in the department and nurses are telling people they are visiting that

this is the case? Because I have received many calls and I would be very surprised if the

minister, in her department, is not aware of it.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will say again to the member opposite, as I have said previously, if

he wants to come and identify the board and the practices - again, Mr. Speaker, in a

department whereby we have the largest department in government, about a $1.1 billion

operation, I have to say that there are policies, there are transfer of function policies,

there are policies regarding other health professionals, other types of procedures; and,

Mr. Speaker, I do not tick off and correct and review every single policy that every

single board puts in place.

I will say, Mr. Speaker, that a publicly funded system does afford

services being offered. If the member wants to come forward, as I have offered many times

here, and discuss this issue with me, or give the identifiable board, I would be only too

happy to follow up with him or with the board; and the offer still stands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, a final

supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister may not be ticking off every policy but she is certainly

ticking of the sick people who cannot get out of their homes to give blood. Many of these

need blood taken because of their medical ailments, I say to the minister. Will she admit

- the community health care board that serves the St. John's region is where I have had

several calls, I say to the minister. It is no secret. She should know it as minister.

Now, are we setting a policy whereby those who can afford to pay for

blood to be taken in their homes, who cannot get outside, are going to have to pay; and

those who cannot afford to pay are told not to worry if their income is at a level that

they cannot afford to pay? Are we setting up a two-tier system now where you pay if you

can afford, and you do not for certain medical services that are considered essential

medical services, to monitor a person's condition while they are being discharged from

hospital at an early time, I ask the minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, in a publicly funded system we offer

the services and the test whereby anyone who avails of those services in a publicly funded

system, through either a referral from an appropriate soon-to-be nurse practitioner or

through a physician, or some other professional who has access to order it, they can avail

of those services in a publicly funded health care system or clinic, Mr. Speaker.

If someone chooses to avail of the service, if they have the income

that allows them to do that - many people might choose to do it for other reasons - that

is also afforded to them; but, Mr. Speaker, there are services and practices outside what

is considered publicly funded. We all know that if you go to a physician for some services

they are not covered under the Canada Health Act or under MCP, and people will choose to

pay for those themselves.

Mr. Speaker, I stand by the statement. In a publicly funded system

those services are available and accessible through the clinics, hospitals, nursing homes

and other facilities that we provide to the citizens of this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am appalled at what the minister is saying, `...the people who can

afford to pay.' Does that mean for heart surgeries, for other surgeries, for other medical

services, we are going to start instituting now a user pay concept for medical services

that have been free and accessible to all? That is what the minister is saying?

Now, I ask the minister: Will she stand in her place here, instead of

skating around the issue, and tell us if she is aware of people having to pay for certain

medical services here under the community health board in the St. John's region? Is she

aware of it? As of April 1 it has been effective, I say to the minister, is she aware of

it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, this government is on record and

continues to be on record as a strong advocate for a publicly funded system. I think, Mr.

Speaker, it is important to note: It is your colleague in the Province of Alberta that

will put the first piece of legislation through the House!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Oh, yes! For a private hospital, Mr. Speaker!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: A private hospital, Mr. Speaker. Your own

colleagues in Alberta, in the Klein government, will put forward in this session the first

piece of legislation to allow for a private hospital in this country. That is the reality

of what is happening across the country. Let it be known, Mr. Speaker, that this

government will always advocate for a publicly funded system and will stand firm in that

commitment, either around our table or at the national table.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was tempted to stop there. I was tempted to stop. Maybe I will give

Ralph a call. But it was her Premier and her federal minister who were responsible for

slashing $155 million from health care and post-secondary education when he was our

federal minister, and that is part of the reason we have a problem today. All I asked the

minister was a simple question: Is she aware that we are now charging for a certain

service, the taking of blood, in homes for people who are confined to their homes, and we

are making some pay and others not? It is as simple as that, Minister, here under the

community health board of the St. John's region. Are you aware of it, yes or no?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will say, Mr. Speaker, in response to the

preamble, it is our Premier

who is now leading the charge to restore the CHST funding around the table that I sit at,

Mr. Speaker, in the Ministerial Council. It is his colleagues across the way who are

trying to clearly divide the private and the public health systems that we have today,

whether it be an eye clinic or open heart surgery. That is the challenge that we face

around the national table, trying to restore and maintain the system that we have. I will

say again that in a publicly funded system, the services that people require, whether it

is having blood withdrawn or other services, continue to be provided and will be provided

in a publicly-funded system.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question today is for the Minister of Forest Resources and

Agrifoods. We all know, when we talk about the spruce budworm and infestation in the

forest and so on, there is nothing more deadly in the forest industry than potential

forest fires.

Mr. Speaker, with the strange weather over the past few years, but

particularly this year, especially on the Avalon Peninsula, we could see an extreme

explosion of forest fires with the no run-off and, of course, the dry situation and El

Nino, I say to the minister, certainly has affected right across the country, as a matter

of fact - in California - but, here in Newfoundland I am more concerned about, so I ask

the Minister: Does he feel that his department is adequately ready this year for forest

fires in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister for Forest Resources and

Agrifoods.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the

member and want to let him know that we are very ready for the forest fire season. We hope

we do not have one but, nevertheless, our people and equipment are quite ready, we look

forward to not having a hard forest fire season because we have a forest to protect and we

are trying to maximize the use of that resource, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I know first-hand about forest fires. In my district some years ago

there was a forest fire - we evacuated two communities on the Baie Verte Peninsula. It can

be very serious and it could happen, Mr. Speaker, and the catch - pardon the pun - with

forest fires, is that it could change within hours. With the wind conditions and so on,

dry conditions, forest fires, people in this Province can tell you, can change within

hours, not days. That is the potential danger.

Mr. Speaker, in the last short while, as a matter of fact, in the last

few days, there have been many reports on the Avalon Peninsula of a number of fires - I do

not know if it is a record number, maybe the minister can tell us that. Only two of

eighteen seasonal forest fire workers have been called back to work to date. What has been

happening is that people from the Wildlife offices and forestry officials in the

minister's department have been responding to those fires that are minimal now but they

have potential.

Can the minister tell us when the rest of the seasonal forest fire

people on the Avalon will be called back to work?

MR. SULLIVAN: There are fires and they are not calling them back?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and

Agrifoods.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, they will be recalled very much in due

course, at the appropriate time. We are ready to deal with forest fires in this Province.

We always have been and will be, with the equipment and the excellent personnel that we

have. In due course and in very short order, the normal recruitment will take place and we

will be ready again.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, the seasonal workers who have not been

called back, do not feel like that. They have also told me - the minister can correct me

if I am wrong - it takes preparation time to prepare for those fires, some that have been

already reported here and on the rest of the Island.

In the twenty-year plan, there has been a list. Between the year 1996

and 2000, some improvements should have been made in this respect. None of them have been

done to date. I would like to ask the minister when he plans on implementing those things

that were in his own plan so we can make sure we do not run into any serious problems for

this year.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and

Agrifoods.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure what the member has been

told. I would like to advise the House that our department is quite ready to deal with

forest fires in this Province. Our people, in short order, are going to be called back as

per normal. We will have an adequate - more than adequate - fire protection service for

our Province.

We take responsibility - we take very seriously the protection of our

forest resource, as we have in the past and as we will in the future. We will ensure that

we have enough people, more than adequate, to deal with forest fires.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Government House Leader in his capacity as the

designated hitter on the post-TAGS situation. I know the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture does not know much about it because he was not there at the meetings in

Ottawa.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, The Globe and Mail is reporting

today that their sources tell them there is a larger post-TAGS program that had been

planned but the elements of it seem to indicate that there will not be much in the way of

income support, other than perhaps a more punitive level of support, and that for the

people who are being cut off TAGS either this week or every week between now and the end

of August, there will be nothing other than `Goodbye, Charlie Brown', the same statement

that was given to us by Admiral Mifflin when we were in Ottawa ten days ago. Does the

minister have any further information? Can he tell us whether that is accurate, and that

the people who are being cut off this week are being cut off for good?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, overall that is a very good question, but

let me say to the hon. gentleman first of all that I can assure him that the Minister of

Fisheries knows as much as anybody in this Legislature, or I suspect, in the Province,

about fish and fish-related matters.

Let me just say to him that it is interesting to see that The Globe

and Mail , that great benefactor, that great newspaper that is always putting out very

positive things about Newfoundland and Labrador, is again today in the news trying to

somehow belittle the work of governments in Canada for Newfoundland and Labrador.

Let me say to him that it is our intention - we have consistently said

this, he knows this, he was in the same meetings as I was, some of them; at least with the

all-party committee - let me assure him that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

has been consistently saying that we believe there has to be a program put in place for

those people, the 3,000 or 4,000 or whatever you want, the numbers that are coming off

TAGS now. We believe they have to be looked after regardless of what the elements of the

program are.

I will say to him - he knows this - that there was, and there is still,

some work to be done on convincing people just what an income replacement program should

be. We are continuing to pursue the whole situation.

If he read The Evening Telegram , which is always very positive

for governments in this Province, he would have noted that there is a great deal more

optimism being - not a great deal. Nobody is absolutely certain yet exactly what is going

to happen to a post-TAGS program. But there is, I say to him - and I think he must have

detected this himself last week. As a matter of fact he did, he said it publicly, that he

detected last week himself that there was, shall we say, a thawing of the ice in Ottawa.

It is not as cold up there as it was, it is not as cold in Central Canada as it was.

Indeed, when you sit down and point out to people how important this program is to

Newfoundland and Labrador, and how responsible the national government is on this whole

issue, they are, I believe, responding. I do not think we are quite there yet, but we are

getting there.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think we all agree that the work of our committee was effective in

Ottawa in thawing the ice and making things a little bit more hospitable to the fishery

workers of this Province. If today's news from The Globe and Mail is as far as we

got, there is now going to be an awful lot of unhappy people in this Province. I want to

ask the minister what further specific plans he and his government have to move the

federal government and their ministers in Ottawa before a final decision is made. What

specific measures are he and the Premier and other members of government taking to affect

the decision-making in Ottawa on this issue?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I would be only too glad to tell the hon.

gentleman what it is we are doing. The hon. gentleman will know that after the all-party

committee of the Legislature left Ottawa last Wednesday morning, I stayed behind with a

couple of officials in the department to start meeting with federal ministers. There has

been a great deal of work ongoing by the member for the West Coast, Mr. Gerry Byrne, this

weekend, as he attempted to meet with various ministers in Ottawa to pursue this matter.

I hope I do not miss anybody here. I have a list here somewhere which I

can provide the hon. gentleman. We met with Marcel Mass, who is the President of

Treasury Board. We met with Stphane Dion, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

Those are two very powerful ministers in the federal Cabinet. We also met with Herb Gray

and one other which I forget, but I will provide the list to the hon. gentleman.

MR. FITZGERALD: How about our own federal minister?

MR. TULK: I am in constant contact. I must say to him, we are in

constant contact with the hon. Fred Mifflin. He has doing a very good job. I say to the

hon. gentleman, we intend to go back -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TULK: Why is it that the Tories cannot engage in serious

dialogue?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, why is everything a joke to the Opposition?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I intend to go back later on this week, to

be frank with the hon. gentleman, to pursue those matters, to try to point out the

different characteristics of this problem and to point out in general terms what we think

a solution should be.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

In 1996, the government eliminated the carrier plates which served as

regulators on the trucking industry, and part of that was, unless you had a carrier plate

you could not operate a dump truck on the Island or on the highways and the number of

plates was determined by the Public Utilities Board.

Has the government undertaken an analysis of the impact on truckers and

the trucking industry within the Province since this change in policy?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There are also some other changes made at about that time in terms of

departmental responsibilities, and I believe this issue is probably a question more

appropriately put to the Minister of Government Services and Lands inasmuch as I am not at

all familiar with it. I am sure that he will be willing to talk to you about it.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the same question for the Minister of

Government Services and Lands. Carrier plates - Mr. Speaker, this is shameful!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: In 1996, the government eliminated carrier plates on

the trucking industry in Newfoundland. The number of plates was determined by the Public

Utilities Board. Has the government done an impact study on the impact it has on the

truckers and the trucking industry in the Province since 1996?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services and

Lands.

MR. McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

No, there has not been an impact study done on the carrier plates.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Is that because the former Minister of Works,

Services and Transportation said there is no need or, did you make the decision yourself?

Private truckers, Mr. Speaker, private truckers are taking slave wages

in this Province to keep money flowing. The hourly rate has dropped sharply from

fifty-seven dollars an hour to as low as thirty-five dollars today, and truckers cannot

cover their cost of fuel, insurances and licensing. Does the minister realize the impact

this change in policy is having on the lives of the truckers in this Province, the private

truckers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services and

Lands.

MR. McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The business to do with the trucking industry in this Province in terms

of carrier plates is basically a private enterprise situation, and where they could

negotiate better deals, that is what they certainly should be doing.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: And you are getting to the point now, I say to the

minister, why it was changed in the first place.

Is the government aware of the allegations that some construction

companies are bidding on government tenders and citing the old trucking fees according to

the old regulations, and are, in turn, paying only 60 per cent to the private truckers? Is

he aware that the disappearance of the old regulations guaranteeing a certain proportion

of work to the independent truckers means that the bigger companies are forcing the

independents out of business? Will he investigate these allegations, report with his

findings and commit to address these problems if he finds they are true?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, the issue of plates is certainly a separate issue from the issue

of the obligations of primary contractors in terms of subcontracting trucking services to

do their work.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that we have deregulated two or

three years ago the trucking industry, consistent with what we have, the approach we have

been taking in many, many other areas. We have divested quite a number of government

services to the private sector; we are encouraging the private sector to become more

pro-active and more competitive in their own right in doing business in the Province. The

trucking sector is one sector that was previously regulated, it has now been deregulated.

I have heard, Mr. Speaker, and I have had representation on a number of

occasions, and have sat down with the independent truckers who have a concern about not

being able to get as much for their services now as they were heretofore under regulation.

I have also arranged meetings for them with the Road Builders Association; they have sat

down together in my board room and had a discussion about how they go forward together to

do business, and while it is a concern for the independent truckers that they may not be

able to get as much as they used to be able to get, the fact of the matter is that they

are operating in the private sector not unlike pretty well everybody else who is out there

trying to run a business.

The trucking services is only one of many contractual-type services

that the construction industry has to engage to fulfil a contract obligation. We are aware

of their difficulties and we are aware of their concerns, but we are also aware that we

need to put the truckers in the Province in no more of a favourable or in no more of a

disadvantage circumstance than anybody else out there in the private sector who has to

operate on a competitive basis.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is to the

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister if he has made any

inquires, or if he has pursued the question to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans,

whereby people today who get a personal seal licence are not allowed to sell their seal

pelts, or give them away, or take them to local plants for processing.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister for Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Yes, I have.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask the minister what answer the Minister for Fisheries and Oceans

gave him, taking into consideration that today people go out, take their six seals for

personal use, and many times you see those pelts floating around the beaches, Mr. Speaker,

half the year the dogs pulling them home to somebody's lawn. What a picture for the IFAW

to take, I say to the minister.

I ask the minister: Does he not consider it more appropriate to allow

those people to be able to sell their pelts so they may be used for some good within the

sealing industry?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister for Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: As, far as the IFAW is concerned, Mr. Speaker, they do

not exist. They are not a topic of my conversation or thoughts whatsoever. I do not care

what they think. But, Mr. Speaker, I would like to see the 6 million seals, or whatever

number is out there, killed and sold, or destroyed or burned. I do not care what happens

to them. The fact is that the markets are not there to sell more seals; 286,000 were

hunted and sold. If there was a market for more -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. EFFORD: If there was a market for more seals, the commercial

sealers would be hunting and selling seals. The special allowance was for the personal use

sealers, that they could take six seals for their personal use. What they do with the

pelts, Mr. Speaker, is up to them. They cannot sell them because the markets are not

there. What they wanted was to have the right to go out and kill the seals. They have that

right, and the more they kill the better I will love it.

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on tomorrow I will

ask leave to introduce the following private member's resolution:

WHEREAS the sole reason for the existence of Marine Atlantic is to

provide an essential transportation link to Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS it is therefore only reasonable to expect that all Marine

Atlantic positions should be located in Newfoundland and Labrador, except those in

services that absolutely must be located in Nova Scotia; and

WHEREAS the key port of entry into Newfoundland and Labrador for Marine

Atlantic vessels is and should remain Port aux Basques; and

WHEREAS it is therefore only reasonable that the main headquarters for

Marine Atlantic in Canada should be located at Port aux Basques and all positions located

at the former headquarters at Moncton, with no exceptions, should be relocated to Port aux

Basques; and

the Marine Atlantic positions located at Moncton will not be relocated to Newfoundland and

Labrador but will be relocated to Nova Scotia, even though it is not essential to the

proper operation of the service, and that they be located outside of Newfoundland and

Labrador;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House express its condemnation of

Port aux Basques; reject the notion that Marine Atlantic positions formerly located at

Moncton should be shared between Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia; third, urge

Atlantic restructuring in such a way to ensure that all positions formerly located at

Moncton, without exception, be relocated to Port aux Basques; and urge the Government of

Canada to move to Port aux Basques all Marine Atlantic positions currently located outside

this Province, including positions in the maintenance, reservation and purchasing

divisions of this Crown corporation, except those that must, of necessity, be located

outside Newfoundland and Labrador for the proper operation of the service.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to present a petition here to the House of Assembly

on a very important initiative, the Goulds bypass road.

AN HON. MEMBER: That is not new.

MR. SULLIVAN: I know it is not new, but I can tell you they keep

coming in. I presented 800 the last day, and every day in the mail there are one or two

petitions. A bundle came in last week. I have an obligation to present them and I want to

present them, because I believe strongly in it.

Almost every single day, as you drive on the Southern Shore, you will

see trucks on the road, development occurring in Bay Bulls; every day two flag persons

there waving trucks by.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: I say to the minister, he interrupted my petition the

last day, and I have to ask him again, if he is going to keep interrupting: Where did he

go when he left Ottawa and did not meet with the ministers? Where did he go? Could he tell

us? There are several rumours circulating and we would like to know the real truth.

Mr. Speaker, most of the petitioners here are from Cape Broyle, just

about everybody, except a few names which are not from Cape Broyle. It is one that was

placed in a store in Cape Broyle, one of the hundreds and hundreds, in the thousands

actually - I have presented in excess of 1,000 already - just one of others asking this

government to take a step in starting work on the Goulds bypass road.

I know the member from Topsail who is trying to speak there, a person

who is touted as being a future Cabinet minister -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, it certainly is.

I say to hon. members, there are many developments occurring in our

area and the road in our area is one of the worst roads you drive over in this Province.

If anybody does not believe me, go down to Waterford Bridge Road, drive in to Kilbride

Road and drive through the Goulds area; just drive it. It will only take you, in a

non-traffic period, fifteen minutes each way, about thirty minutes total. Turn around by

Big Pond and come back. Then try it in the morning during the peak traffic period and time

yourself from Big Pond to here.

It is not just the traffic congestion - the numbers bear that out - but

the condition of the road that is there which is really an added burden. It is a main

street of St. John's. The longest street in the City of St. John's is the road to get to

my district. Who should have to drive through a main street for thirty-five and forty

minutes to get from the Southwest end, just to get out of the city, when you are already

in the Southwest part of the city?

So, I say, it is important; identify it. I am sure the minister will

find a few dollars this year. I am sure a few crumbs will fall off his table some time in

the near future. I am sure there will be a little bit of slippage in announcing on the

contracts this year, it has been so competitive. My colleague alluded to people being

forced to work for very little; very competitive. There should be a few dollars left there

in the pot that will see a start on that this year, some preliminary work done, and we

will get up to a full scale construction of that next year.

That is important; it is important to the people in the entire

Ferryland District, people in the Goulds area, in the Petty Harbour - Maddox Cove area,

who drive on that road in to St. John's. They will free up traffic on that road. They will

make it easier for people to do their business in the Goulds area, to move into the

shopping centre in the Goulds, Bidgoods, to move into other businesses from the main

highway. It will facilitate the movement of traffic on and off parking lots bordering on

the main highway that is now a very serious problem there.

Government has identified it as being a serious problem. They have

given a commitment to doing it. We are just saying: Why does it have to be in the last

years of a ten- or fifteen-year agreement? I am carrying out a duty that I am pleased to

do, I say to the minister, on the Goulds bypass road, and as long as the petitions keep

coming in I will stand up here every single day and present them. I hope there are more

tomorrow. I hope when I get my mail this afternoon there are a few more in it, because the

House is not aware of the urgent need of that area but they will be by the time I am

finished.

I know they are sold on it. We just want some extra money. That is all

they are asking. They are saying: We know it is coming there, but why can't you find a few

dollars to get something moving this year?

It is very important to the businesses in the area, for commuters here

back and forth to work, people having to leave their homes an extra half-hour earlier in

the mornings to get to work here, a half-hour extra back in the evening; people, young

families there. Why be out of your home an extra hour or hour and a half each day because

of a transportation system that is far from adequate?

Mr. Speaker, the petitioners here urge the Government of Newfoundland

and Labrador to begin construction on the Goulds bypass road this coming year. They have

highlighted many of the concerns.

The Irish Loop Regional Economic Development Board, Zone 20, has

addressed this as a major initiative that is needed there. They have spearheaded this

petition drive. I am sure the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal appreciates the

work that regional economic development boards do in the area and around our Province. I

say it is important that the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation realize the

importance of expeditiously carrying out this particular project.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Once again I find myself standing in my place to support a petition

presented by the Member for Ferryland who is doing a very good job, I might add, taking

care of his district and trying to get the roadwork done in his district, which is a long

overdue necessity. Even by the minister's own admission it needs to be done. There is

funding put in place for it. We thought it would be spent this year, but no, it is going

to be started next year. For the sake of one year, I don't know why they could not have

started this year. It is a part of the overall network for the highways and byways in and

around St. John's and the Northeast Avalon.

The people on the Southern Shore desperately need this road done. One

point I made some time ago with respect to the necessity, even from an environmental

perspective, when we have thousands of cars spending an extra half-hour or forty-five

minutes on that road in the mornings because of the condition of the Goulds highway and

the network that is there now which is not able to handle properly the traffic flow on the

Southern Shore Highway.

We have the Member for Ferryland presenting a number of petitions in

this House. He presented them from the District of Placentia & St. Mary's; he

presented them from other areas. People in Mount Pearl, I would assume, would use this

Goulds bypass if it ever comes to pass. Any time I am on my feet with respect to the

Goulds bypass, what comes to my mind, of course, is the Torbay bypass which was supposed

to be started by now. I know that the Department of Works, Services and Transportation has

purchased properties on the route for the Torbay bypass, and the former Minister of Works,

Services and Transportation, the now Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, put the Torbay

bypass on the back burner.

Again, when you look at the traffic flow on Torbay Road, it is very

similar to what Topsail Road used to be years ago, and the Goulds highway now. As I said

in previous statements in this House of Assembly in supporting petitions put forward by

the Member for Ferryland, this road is long overdue. As I stated earlier, the Goulds

bypass would circumvent the whole community of Goulds. I was going to say the Town of

Goulds but the previous Administration, the former Premier, made sure that didn't exist

any more. He forced amalgamation. He said at the time there would be no forced

amalgamation, but the Goulds was taken out, and Wedgewood Park, and forced to join the

City of St. John's. Maybe if they had stayed separate they might have the Goulds bypass

now. I don't know. Who knows these things?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I would say to the Minister of Fisheries

and Aquaculture he should be careful, because I threatened the other day to tell in this

House what the Premier has planned for him, but I wouldn't. I try not to.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh my, God only knows. The Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture is nervous too, I will tell you that. I saw him here the other day. When

certain points were brought up he turned pretty red about some of his travel plans.

Anyway, to be serious, Mr. Speaker, the Goulds bypass is a necessity.

It is something that was supposed to have started this year. It is being delayed until

next year. Then when next year comes by it will probably be delayed again for another

year. Again, the pressure needs to be put on, needs to be kept on, and the Member for

Ferryland is doing his job. He is going to keep the pressure on, I am sure, until that

Goulds bypass is constructed.

Thank you for your time, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition to the House of Assembly. It reads:

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland in legislative session convened. The

petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland:

"WHEREAS the TAGS program whereby the federal government

compensates fisheries workers for its mismanagement of the fisheries resource is due to

expire in August and many people entitled to funding have already been or are about to be

taken off the program prior to that date;

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and

Labrador to take a lead role in convincing the federal government to announce and

implement, without further delay, a successor program to TAGS which includes income

replacement, license buy-back, early retirement and economic diversification, and to give

immediate consideration to those who are entitled to compensation and are now or are about

to be taken off this program. As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray."

Mr. Speaker, we are getting all kinds of mixed signals coming out of

Ottawa, who is certainly responsible for this particular program, for the TAGS program, of

who is going to be included and who is not going to be included, what the amount of

compensation is going to be, who is going to be left out, are the people who are now off

the program going to be included back on a new post-TAGS program or is it only going to be

for the people who were there for the duration? Mr. Speaker, a committee of the House of

Assembly, the All Party Committee, travelled to Ottawa and put forward their views to the

five parties, as well as every other individual that people met along the way. Mr.

Speaker, it is a situation where I am not sure that the central government attitude is

conducive to putting forward a replacement program that is going to respond to the needs

of those 20,000 plant workers and fisherpeople that are now eligible for this particular

program.

Mr. Speaker, I remember speaking to Minister Pettigrew when he talked

about being fiscally responsible and a problem with money. I spoke to him about the $14

billion to $16 billion that was existing in an EI pot that has been there and was

contributed to by many of those same plant workers and fishermen when they had the

opportunity to fish or go to work. The minister's response, Mr. Speaker, was indicative of

the central government attitude. It was a response, Mr. Speaker, to the tune - will the

people from Ontario be satisfied if we took money from the EI program and put it into a

post-TAGS program? Mr. Speaker, there are many more people in this country than the people

who work in Ontario, than the people who live in Ontario. Newfoundlanders who worked

tirelessly every day have contributed to this EI fund and I am sure that many of us would

contribute much more if we had the opportunity to be able to go to work.

Mr. Speaker, my concern with this particular group of people is the

3,000 in total but 2,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who will come off this program

next week. As of Wednesday, two days time, the last cheque goes in the mail for in excess

of 2,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Those are real people. Those are people with

telephone bills to pay, hydro bills to pay, people who go to the store every day to buy

groceries, people who have financial commitments, Mr. Speaker. Two thousand of those

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians will be without an income in just one weeks time. Their

last cheque goes in the mail the day after tomorrow. That is a frightening place to find

yourself, I say to people opposite. That was why I think we, as an all-party delegation,

made the trip to Ottawa a week-and-a-half ago, because the emergency was not what is

happening come next August but what is happening come next week.

AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MR. TULK: That is not true.

MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, it is true. Well, that was my thoughts towards

it, I say to the Government House Leader. Whether it is true or not. The urgency, Mr.

Speaker, was what was happening next week. That was the urgency.

MR. TULK: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: The hon. gentleman is now over there stating that the

only reason, the real reason why the All Party Committee - in his usual typical, partisan,

political, fashion, he is over there now trying to say - and, Mr. Speaker, it just makes

your stomach roll when you hear him go on with this - taking advantage of the misery of

people to try to make some small political points.

The truth of the matter, Mr. Speaker, is that the All Party Committee

went to Ottawa for various reasons, one of which was: yes, the 3,000 or 4,000 people

coming off TAGS this year. The hon. gentleman is over there now saying: Oh, that is the

reason we all went; and the next thing he is going to say, if we do not get an answer, is,

that was all a failure.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise today to support my colleague on his petition. I tell

you what makes my stomach roll, Mr. Speaker, if the minister want to get into it, it is

the people I see every day and this weekend when I was home again, who are filled with

anxiety not knowing where they are going tomorrow; and it is not a political game anybody

should be playing here, I say to the minister. I talk to them. I do not need the minister

to tell me how the people in my district feel, I can tell you that. Those people there are

really like a ticking time bomb, I have said it over and over again, and what made my

stomach roll, I say to the minister, is the attitude of that bunch up in Ottawa, that is

what really got my goat and should have gotten the minister's goat. I believe if he were

telling the truth, he would admit it, Mr. Speaker.

The attitude of the media up there, not to any particular Party, the

attitude of the media -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Well, that is what I am saying to you, that is the one

we should be upset about.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: The minister is a dork - I mean the minister is in the

dark.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, talk to that over there, will you?

MR. SHELLEY: But, Mr. Speaker, what really makes my stomach roll is

when you hear the minister talk about that, about the people and the attitude that was up

there, from caucus to caucus that we went to and then the national media, the stupid

questions they asked. I just made a note while he was making a few comments. You were

asking: How much longer do you want this to go on? How many people and so on?

Now, Mr. Speaker, there is no price to put on this because the only

answer, and I am quite serious, I kept saying this over and over before I went to Ottawa,

by the way, Mr. Speaker, that the TAGS was a failure but I do not want to finish by just

saying that. Some things that happened with the last TAGS program were good, some things

worked out right. The intent was there, but the problem was, Mr. Speaker, before they had

the door all the way knocked down, they stopped beating at the door, because the job was

not finished. And with the mentality of the people in Ottawa now, our biggest challenge as

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians is to convince them that we are not bloody well up there

looking for a job, that it is a way of life; and when I go down to Ming's Bight and Fleur

de Lys, Mr. Speaker, and see another truck pulling out, a U-haul, I say, it is ruining

this Province.

And I am up there trying to convince some caucus up there, full of

Ontario MPs that we are not here for another hand-out, give us a cheque to go back so we

can have a welfare cheque. They do not want it, Mr. Speaker, they do not want it and that

is what the whole issue is all about. I am sick and tired of our having to go up and beat

on their doors. We should not have had to go to Ottawa, because the truth is, Mr. Speaker,

if the job was being done right, our minister, would have been up there and made sure that

was all in line at the time. It is bloody ridiculous that we have to call caucuses

together and go up with an All Party Committee, Mr. Speaker, and beat on them for a while.

You would think that the message would have gotten through; that is the way it should have

been, Mr. Speaker. They certainly made a smart move on the other side by not sending the

Member for Windsor-Springdale, I can tell him that.

Because the point is (inaudible).

So, Mr. Speaker, everybody in this Province, every single

Newfoundlander and Labradorian should be sending the message loud and clear, that we are

bloody sick of the attitude of those up there including the national media, Mr. Speaker, I

do not care where they are from, of an attitude that - Oh, how much are you here for this

time? How long do you want us to keep you on the welfare rolls this time? What a sick

attitude! And I still say, Mr. Speaker, the fact that some caucuses did not have the

decency to show up to hear what we had to say - but I do believe the effectiveness of the

Committee.

MR. J. BYRNE: Who was the most effective?

MR. SHELLEY: I will tell you the truth - now, I will not say who

was the most effective but I will tell you the truth: I did not think we would be

effective when I was first asked to go on this Committee. I said: This must be all - there

must be something to this. And I will tell the truth to the minister: I did not think that

we would be effective when we first went, because I thought it was all done. I said: This

is just a gesture, to go up and say we are an all-party committee - which would be nice

and so on. We had to do it. We had to do it when we were asked, Mr. Speaker.

MR. TULK: Is that why you (inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, absolutely. Then, Mr. Speaker, when I got there,

not the first week so much but the second week, I said: Gee, maybe it is true, we need to

get the message across. Because from that first week to the second week, there was a big

difference, I say to the minister. I do not know if we went from zero to four, five or

six, as you said, but we did make some progress, we started to get through to them.

When we spoke that night to the Cabinet Committee, Mr. Speaker, Mr.

Pettigrew, Mr. Anderson and a few more - I thought I saw them actually trying to at least

understand where we were coming from. Because up to that point, one of the ministers had

said: We have to consider people in Northern Ontario which has mines shut down, I had a

big problem with that and I started to say: The mentality of this group here sitting

around the Cabinet table in Ottawa and the 101 MPs from Ontario, there is where the

problem lies.

I am going to tell you, Mr. Speaker, if they do not -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: No, and I did not go around bragging as if I were a

main player either, like some people did, Mr. Speaker. We just got up when we had our

chance, and the truth was if there had been a bit of decency, we would have had a lot more

time to say a lot more to a lot more of the Liberal caucus.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there is no room in this problem for politics, for the

types of statements that are being made on the other side of the House.

A month ago my colleague, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo,

introduced a resolution in this House of Assembly, April 1, and until he introduced that

resolution into the House of Assembly there was not one question and not one comment from

members opposite about TAGS.

MR. FITZGERALD: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bonavista South, on a point of order.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, Hansard will show that this member

asked questions of the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal prior to that resolution

being brought forward in the House. If the minister was absent at that particular time, I

suggest he read Hansard before he makes such statements.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order. It is a matter of there being a

disagreement between two hon. members.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: TAGS has been on the go since 1994. The introduction

was 1994.

MR. TULK: NCARP, 1992.

MR. EFFORD: NCARP, 1992. And he asked one question. That is a real

contribution to the problem, Mr. Speaker; that is a real contribution.

Now, the other day we all decided, through that resolution on April 1,

to go to Ottawa. We go to Ottawa as an All Party Committee - as much as it bothered me

about who we were taking up there, we go up in the name of the people of this Province.

MR. SHELLEY: Did you not just say politics should play no

part in

this?

MR. EFFORD: No. I am pointing out what you are doing over there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. EFFORD: The first thing when we get to Ottawa, with no

politics, an All Party Committee representing the people who are destitute, who are driven

to destitution here in this Province, through people losing their income on a daily and

weekly basis, the first thing certain members on the other side of the House do is go to

the phone, phone back and create all kinds of open line controversy, and comments to try

to create a disturbance among an All Party Committee which has gone to Ottawa to represent

those people. And they say there are no politics being played!

MR. FRENCH: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South, on a point of order.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to remind the minister that on CBC Radio, on the

phone-in show, when he was in Ottawa, I thought that the Minister of Fisheries was the

only man up there, because he forgot all the members from his own side and he forgot all

the members from this side. About twice in his interview I thought he said Minister Tulk

was with him, but other than that he never mentioned another soul. So much for the

Minister of Fisheries' politics and remaining politically neutral! This minister is really

good at that, Mr. Speaker. He is so neutral it is sickening.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) not even on the open line.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order. Again it is a matter of a disagreement

between two hon. members.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, there is a clear explanation for that.

That was the two or three nights after we arrived in Ottawa and my colleague, the Chairman

of the Committee, it was only then that he and I had a chance to get on open line because

they had it totally taken up for the two or three nights before that. So we definitely had

to take the opportunity, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, standing here in the House of Assembly every day, in

Petitions, after we all just got back from Ottawa, after we have all made a clear

presentation to the people in Ottawa on the need for a post-TAGS program - what is to be

gained by standing in the House of Assembly and making accusations on a day-to-day basis

about a TAGS program? Ask the hon. members opposite: How many letters have they written to

ministers in Ottawa? Show the letters that you have written. How many times have you made

a presentation to the ministers in Ottawa on behalf of the people of Newfoundland since

1994?

It is quite obvious, Mr. Speaker, there is a clear message being sent.

It is pure politics that they are playing opposite, and if they weren't trying to get

their faces in the paper or their voices on the radio they wouldn't be talking about it at

all, Mr. Speaker.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Motion No. 1, the Budget Speech.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion No. 1, the hon. the Minister of Finance and

Treasury Board, To Move That The House Resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on

Ways and Means to Consider the Raising of Supply to be Granted to Her Majesty; otherwise

known as the Budget Speech.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture can fall asleep when I'm

speaking he must be pretty tired from his trips up along and skipping meetings and missing

meetings and what have you, I suppose. Hard on the poor man, I would say, if he is that

tired.

Anyway, to continue where I left off when I adjourned debate on

Thursday afternoon: Mr. Speaker, I was talking about the Budget highlights for 1998. Where

I had left off was the $30 million contingency fund. That is what I was speaking about,

and talking about a deficit of $10 million that the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board

talks about. If he doesn't spend that $30 million he will have a $20 million surplus. If

he is going to use it as a slush fund, that is a different matter. I would venture to say

that we could be looking at a $20 million surplus this year.

The minister says there are no tax increases in this Budget. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I've been on my feet for the past three years and they have been saying there are

no tax increases. I've referred to sheet after sheet after sheet full of licences, fees,

permits and increases over the past few years. They don't say there is a tax increase, but

it is coming out of the pocket of the people of this Province. It is unreal.

One point I want to make is with regard to the $50 million -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I'm going to tell you what the Premier

has planned for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. The Premier is planning on

replacing him. He is talking about replacing the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture

with a monkey. That is what they are planning on doing with him.

With respect to the $50 million for school construction and what have

you: I've been working hard in my district for the past three or four years trying to get

funding for the school down in the District of Cape St. Francis, down in Pouch Cove, to

service Pouch Cove, Flatrock, and Bauline. The minister has committed funding for that

school time after time. Last year, before the new board took over, the construction board

made us jump through so many hoops it was unreal. Every time we would go back to them with

that they would ask for more; go back with information, they ask for more. Finally we are

going to get it, everything done, worked out. The towns came together on it, the school

boards came together on it, the PTAs came together on it, the teachers came together on

it. Everybody agreed on a site down there. We finally thought that was the end of it, but

no, the minister has come out now and asked for more information.

Hopefully, this week I will meet with representatives of the new

construction board, or committee, whatever they want to call it, and a representative from

the school board. We are going down to take one last look at the site, and to send a

letter to the Minister of Education, who has told me that if we get a letter telling the

size of the school, basically, and the location, we will get the funding this year.

I've been trying to keep it fairly quiet, Mr. Speaker, until such time

as we have something in writing from the Minister of Education to say that we are going to

have funding for that over two years, and to get the kids to go to school there in

September, 1999, I say to the Minister of Education. He has told me he wants the kids to

go there in September of 1999. So we have to get started this year on the construction of

a new school in the Shoe Cove area, to service Pouch Cove, Flatrock and Bauline.

I understand, Mr. Speaker, that the people in the area understand that

there will be a K to 9 school, and that is what they have been looking for over the past

number of years. I support whatever the people want in the area. If they want a K to 9, K

to 8, whatever the case may be, that is what I would support.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The member has leave.

MR. J. BYRNE: By leave? I have so much to say.

MR. MATTHEWS: You are making a lot of sense, Jack.

MR. J. BYRNE: The Minister of Works, Services and Transportation

says I am making a lot of sense and I agree, Mr. Speaker, I am making a lot of sense.

MR. SHELLEY: I agree with him 100 percent!

MR. J. BYRNE: I am working for my district. I am being paid to be

here to work for my district to represent the views of the people in my district and that

is what I am doing.

Not only that, Mr. Speaker, we know that the two schools in Pouch Cove,

Pouch Cove Elementary and St. Agnes, are old schools and the numbers are low in both

schools. When they come together it will, basically, exemplify what the referendum was all

about; bringing schools together and having a neighbourhood school, a true neighbourhood

school. That is what we were trying to accomplish down there.

I have been trying to sell that for the past number of years, that very

argument, what the Minister of Education was trying to accomplish. He had it in his hands

in the district of Cape St. Francis, in Pouch Cove, Flatrock and Bauline. It was there for

him. Mr. Speaker, I am fully expecting the minister to live up to his commitments to that

area and to the people down there.

We have had numerous meetings on the school in Pouch Cove, Flatrock and

Bauline. We have had meetings with various boards over the years. They do not exist

anymore, there is only one, the Avalon East Board. We had meetings with the previous

boards, we had meetings with the construction boards, we had meetings - on Regatta Day

this past year, I was trying to get the minister to attend a meeting, the old construction

board. That is not this year, back in August of 1997.

I hope, out of that $50 million I saw listed here in the Budget, I

think it was $50 million, for school construction - that is what I am after, the

district's fair share. There it is: the Newfoundland and Labrador Education Investment

Cooperation is established with a commitment of $50 million over the next several years

towards construction and upgrading of schools.

The project in the area that we are talking about, Mr. Speaker, is

basically a $3 million project according to the figures that have been given to me. But,

Mr. Speaker, what it will do for the students in the area is unreal. St. Agnes school now

really does not have a cafeteria, or anything of that nature. They have had some

fund-raising down there for some computer rooms. The gymnasium is not up to standard. The

same thing in Pouch Cove Elementary. So if you bring them together, we have larger numbers

and we have more resources for the children of the area. From every prospective, from an

educational prospective, from a physical prospective, from a mental prospective, Mr.

Speaker, everything is going to be more beneficial to the students. That is what I was

fighting for all along.

I have been down to Pouch Cove to public meetings and people wanted me

to say that the school should go to Pouch Cove. People in Flatrock wanted me to say that

the school should go in Flatrock. I told them from day one that my objective was to get

funding for the school.

MR. MATTHEWS: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I supported the students, I say to the Minister of

Works, Services and Transportation, to get a school for the students of my area. It is

needed down there, Mr. Speaker.

MR. MATTHEWS: Pouch Cove or Flatrock?

MR. J. BYRNE: It went between the two communities. They looked at

sixteen sites and narrowed it down to five, then down to one. Obviously, if everyone

agrees upon it, it is the site that should be accepted by the board and by the government.

They are continually going back, making us jump through more hoops, Mr. Speaker.

Getting back to my train of thought with respect to the benefits for

the students in my district: I think that this new school should be started as soon as

possible, that we should be now having the engineering work done, the designs and

drawings. The back-hoes and that should be moved in there this summer to start the

facility, to get the ground work done and whatever else needs to be done. Then we can work

on it over the winter and the schools in the area, the two small schools, can close. All

the children can come together in one new school, next fall, in September of 1999. That is

what the Minister of Education has committed to me and said should happen and will happen;

and I think it can.

One of the members opposite, Mr. Speaker, is nodding his head in

agreement and rightly so. Whitbourne is it?

AN HON. MEMBER: Harbour Main.

MR. J. BYRNE: Harbour Main - Whitbourne. I think that's the proper

name. He is shaking his head in agreement. Now I think they have a situation out there

too, in that area, with respect to the location of a new school to be constructed, in

Blaketown and Whitbourne. So he knows what I have gone through, I would say to the member.

It is going in where?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Will I repeat you?

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I know where it should go. I will tell you where

my school should go, for the district of Cape St. Francis. It should go where the parents

agreed upon it, where the schools agreed upon it, where the school boards agreed upon it

and where the towns agreed upon. Mr. Speaker, everybody agrees upon it. I don't know -

some behind-the-scenes individual seems to have a problem with it, but is not forthcoming

and letting me know.

Mr. Speaker, I have talked to the minister numerous times. I am

hounding him to death. He is getting tired of me coming to meet with him and talk to him

about the school. I think that is one of the reasons why, Mr. Speaker, he is so committed

to it. It is because I am driving him mad, Mr. Speaker, and rightly so, he is the Minister

of Education. He should be putting money into that school in that area, Mr. Speaker. It is

long overdue.

Anyway, I think that's enough on that school for now. We shall see, in

due course, if the Minister of Education is a man of his word. I have no reason to doubt

him, Mr. Speaker. I understand that we will be meeting again in the near future and

hopefully he will be signing on the dotted line saying: The school for Pouch Cove, Flat

Rock and Bauline is a go. I have it verbally, Mr. Speaker, I want to get it on paper.

Now if someone asked me for something and I tell them and they have my

word then, it is as good as written in stone, Mr. Speaker; you don't need me to sign any

paper. But if that is what it takes on the other side -

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible) you don't know.

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh yes, I would say.

Now, with respect to what is happening in this Budget, Mr. Speaker,

with respect to out-migration. Now we all know that one of the single biggest problems

that this Province faces is out-migration and the Minister of Fisheries is over there

shaking his head in agreement. Now if we could get as many people to come into this

Province as the minister would like to see seals disappear, we would be all right. He was

up today talking - well I will not get into that because he put his foot in his mouth

today, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and I kind of felt bad for

him.

Now out-migration, Mr. Speaker, in this Province is at an all time

high. When we talk about out-migration on this side of the House some of the ministers on

the other side get up and relate it to - they say if you take the TAGS or the downfall in

the fishery out of the picture, the out-migration is higher in previous years than it is

today. But if you look at the study that was done here and was only made public last week,

they say that the out-migration is not directly related to the downfall in the fishery

because the people who are leaving the Province are the younger people. Fifteen to

twenty-five is it? That is the thing, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: Nineteen to thirty years old.

MR. J. BYRNE: Nineteen to thirty years old. These are the people

who are leaving the Province. So we have to address the out-migration in this Province.

Here is something, I say to the Member for Twillingate, here is a novel

idea maybe, Mr. Speaker. We have existed in this Province for 500 years. We settled here

for the fishery. Five hundred or 600 communities along the coastline survived for 500

years on the inshore fishery. Maybe what we should be looking at is putting the fishermen

back in the waters with the small boats, going out so far and not allowing any of those

big trawlers and factory-freezer trawlers coming in and taking our fish. The inshore

fishermen, if those people could -

MR. EFFORD: How can you stand in your place for twenty minutes and

say absolutely nothing?

MR. SHELLEY: Easy. We watch you all the time.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I came into this House of Assembly in

1993 and the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture says: How can you stand in your place

for twenty minutes and say absolutely nothing? Now, Mr. Speaker, when I came in here first

I was looking at the people on the other side of the House basically - there were a lot of

them - and the one that used to stand up the longest and say the least, Mr. Speaker, was

the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. He is still at it today, Mr. Speaker, and he is

questioning me? The nerve, Mr. Speaker!

Now back to the communities and how we can revitalize the rural

communities in this Province. If we have to allow the inshore fishery to go with the small

boats, the hand line, and maybe the cod traps and what have you, instead of gill nets,

maybe we can revitalize rural Newfoundland. That is what we existed on. We have to put a

proper fishery in place. That is another point. We have yet to understand what the fishery

of the future is going to be, Mr. Speaker.

We have the Minister of Fisheries, who is all the time talking about

sealing, what we should be doing with the seals and what have you - and rightfully so; it

is the major, major factor in the return of the codfish to our waters, Mr. Speaker - but

the Minister of Fisheries has not told us, neither the Minister of Fisheries provincially

or the Minister of Fisheries nationally, what the future fishery is going to be. Is it

going to be the inshore fishery with a lot of people going out in the small boats? Is that

going to be our main objective in the future? Or, are we going to continue -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You do not have to tell me. You should be telling the

people of the Province. That is who is paying your salary. That is who elected you. That

is who you are here to represent, I say to the Minister of Fisheries. That is who you

should be telling, so the people can get on with their lives, so they know what they can

do.

Is it going to be an inshore fishery which is going to be the main

objective? Is it going to be the FPIs and the National Seas of the world going out in the

big factory trawlers, or whatever the case may be, and cleaning out the fishery, Mr.

Speaker? What is it going to be? Is it going to be something in between, middle distance?

I do not know. Nobody knows. But people need to get on with their lives, and that is how

we need to revitalize, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Not at all. I am asking a question, Mr. Speaker. What

is it going to be? I am not running down anybody, I say to the Member for -

AN HON. MEMBER: The Member for Bellevue was running him down.

MR. J. BYRNE: The Member for Bellevue, was he running him down?

AN HON. MEMBER: He said it is not their problem.

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, the Member for Bellevue said it was not their

problem? Did he say that, really? What did he say was not their problem? In the House?

AN HON. MEMBER: TAGS.

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, the Member for Bellevue said that TAGS was not

our problem?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Did you hear what I said? The Member for Bellevue

walks in here and says I am tearing down National Sea. I said no such thing. I never said

one negative word toward National Sea or FPI, or anybody. All I am doing is asking the

Minister of Fisheries: What are the plans for the future with respect to the fishery in

this Province, with respect to the revitalization of the rural communities in this

Province, Mr. Speaker.

Now, let us move on to some of the other points that I wanted to make.

Now, here is one. Government has consulted with the people and is making investments in

education, health care, and the reform of our social programs.

What do we see, Mr. Speaker? Two weeks before the Budget came down, we

saw the minister going around the Province with the Member for Conception Bay East &

Bell Island and consulting, two weeks before the Budget. Now, Mr. Speaker, let's get real

here in this Province. What impact did that really have? Or, were the decisions already

made? Were the decisions already made?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I say to the Minister of Fisheries, what are you

asking?

MR. EFFORD: Eternity is not long enough (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I would say to the Minister of

Fisheries... The comment he just made, just in case the mikes could not pick it up for

Hansard, was: Eternity is not long enough for me to get real.

I will say to the Minister of Fisheries, I am probably the most

realistic person in this House. And the most unrealistic, of course, is everyone on that

side of the House over there. Now, let me see what other points I want to make here. I

have all kinds of notes here, Mr. Speaker. I have so many to pick from, I really don't

know what...

Consultation is what I am talking about now. It says that no new

lay-offs are anticipated. Well, Mr. Speaker, that leads me to the morale in the civil

service. Four years ago, I think, if you dig up Hansard, you will see that I was the first

one to bring up the morale of the civil service - four years ago - in this House of

Assembly. Now we have untold, I do not know how many, thousands of people laid off in the

civil service. Husbands and wives going out the door, no human factor, no more human

feelings at all, just numbers, going out the door the same day, husband and wife with the

civil service, and there are no anticipated new lay-offs.

Well, I hope not, Mr. Speaker. It is long overdue that there should not

be any new lay-offs in the civil service, but I have to ask a question.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, I do not expect the question to be answered, Mr.

Speaker, just rhetorical questions here. There is no point in asking questions now because

you will not get answers anyway, but it is our duty to ask questions.

I travel around this building a fair bit, Mr. Speaker, between here and

the West Block, and I see so many new faces in this building, I am wondering how many

people are actually being hired on or hired back. I was going to bring up a point, but I

am going to save it for Question Period and see if I can get an answer out of the Minister

of Finance and Treasury Board. I think he will answer this one but I am not going to ask

it now. I won't ask it, I will save it.

It says: The government will continue to press the federal government

for increased funding for health care now that the federal deficit has been eliminated.

So if they gave us back $150 million a year they would only be giving

back some of what they cut over the past few years. I might remind you, Mr. Speaker, that

it was a Liberal Administration in Ottawa that was doing all the cutting. There has been a

Liberal Administration over the past number of years that has been cutting services in

this Province.

Another point, here is one. This regressive tax, of course, is the tax

on..., the payroll tax. Effective in the 1998 taxation year the $100,000 exemption for

payroll tax will be increased to $120,000. If I can remember correctly, when that tax was

brought in first by the previous Administration it was $300,000. So if you had a small

company that had to pay a payroll of $300,000 or less, they would not have to pay the

payroll tax. But no, that tax on jobs was not hard enough. They had to come in and reduce

that to $100,000. So if you have a small company with three or four employees, we had to

make sure we taxed them to make sure they could not create another job. No, be careful.

Anyway, it was cut down to $100,000. So if you had three or four

employees, a small company, which the future of this country depends on, small companies,

to create jobs, what they want now is to make sure they tax you so that you do not create

jobs. I know small companies out there that have told me they would not go over the limit

because they would have to pay a tax. Isn't that shocking? That is shameful, that they

would put a tax on jobs in this Province.

The other points we need to look at, of course, are some of the

mega-projects. Voisey's Bay going to be the saviour. Last year, Voisey's Bay -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) payroll tax (inaudible)?

MR. J. BYRNE: So we would not be allowed to create jobs here; to

force people to leave the Province; so they can get the population from 500,000 down to

300,000. That is why it was brought in. It was the idea, the dream of the previous

Premier, to make sure that we got the out-migration up; get as many people out of this

Province as possible. As a matter of fact, on that side of the House - I have to tell you

this now - they talk about the welfare rolls going down. No wonder. With the number of

people leaving this Province, no wonder the rolls are gone down. Surely every day young

people -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) my district (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: They are what? All out in your district working? The

Member for Bellevue has some opinion of himself, I would say, Mr. Speaker, all of them out

in his area working.

Anyway, the Voisey's Bay project. Last year, a few years ago, we all

thought: Thank God. The government was pushing it like you would not believe, and there

was going to be a smelter here and a smelter there. I think every district in the Province

was getting a smelter during the last election. Every district in the Province, according

to the Liberals, was getting a smelter in the last election, and we still don't have one,

do we? How many jobs have been created?

MR. EFFORD: Seventy-five (inaudible).

AN HON. MEMBER: That is about as realistic as a smelter.

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, that is about as realistic as a smelter.

If we had a proper Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture you might have

seventy-five fish plants going, I say to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. Who

knows? You just said seventy-five, didn't you? I am only quoting the Minister of Fisheries

and Aquaculture.

With respect to, as I said, Voisey's Bay, where are the jobs? Where is

the smelter? I hope it is forthcoming, I honestly pray for it, Mr. Speaker. We have the

Churchill Falls deal that is going to be a deal if we can agree to agree on something.

That is what it is going to be. We hope and pray that we can see a transmission line to

this Island. There is going to be a transmission line to this Island.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) going to be a deal.

MR. J. BYRNE: I hope so, I hope there is going to be a deal. I hope

we get it. But if we do not get a transmission line to this Island, what is going to

happen, I say? Are we were going to have cheap electricity, power, for somebody to compete

with us? I think it has to be a major, major factor that we get a transmission line to

this Island for industry.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: I said, you would be amazed (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Wishful thinking, my son. Wishful thinking, I say to

the Member for Bellevue, wishful thinking.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I would probably do better than what I am doing here

with respect to money. Oh, I would make more money at it, that's for sure.

AN HON. MEMBER: What a speech (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Member for Labrador West says, what a speech. He

is trying to be facetious there in saying what a speech that Charest gave us this week,

referring to the Liberal convention. But, at least they now have one member in the Liberal

Party throughout the country who knows what he is talking about, and he learned that

before he went with the Liberal Party, I say to Member for Labrador West. They finally

have an individual, and where did he come from, Mr. Speaker? He had to come from the roots

of the Tory Party of this country. That is who they had to go and beg, borrow or steal,

any way they could, to get Mr. Charest to join the Liberal Party of Quebec, and they

should be over there hanging their heads in shame when they have a Prime Minister of the

country who could not do anything. We have the Minister of Finance, the next Liberal

leader of the federal Liberal Party, Paul Martin, although we have other people who have

ambitions, no doubt -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: Paul Martin doesn't have a chance.

MR. J. BYRNE: Anyway, Mr. Speaker, we have Paul Martin who is going

to be the next leader of the Liberal Party federally. We have other people who have

ambitions, who up along have $1,000-a-plate dinners - I will not refer to them, no need to

name them - fund-raising up in Toronto. Who was up there, I wonder? Who was at that? Was

anybody on that side of the House at that?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: And they have the gall over there to even mention

Jean Charest's name. My goodness, Mr. Speaker, I cannot get over it. I cannot get over it

at all, Mr. Speaker. They had to go after a Tory, a leader of the Tory Party, to become a

leader of a provincial Liberal Party, to save them. What happened? Why didn't the Premier

of Newfoundland and Labrador go to Quebec and become Premier? He can speak French now, I

understand. He is taking lessons. Why didn't he go over?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, he didn't, did he? The former Premier of New

Brunswick, McKenna, did he go? No. Is he a Liberal? Yes, he was Liberal. Who else is out

there, Mr. Speaker? They had to get a Tory, and they have the audacity over there to even

mention his name to us. Shameful, shameful, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: Do you know what I was told once? Scratch any Tory

and you'll find a turncoat.

MR. J. BYRNE: Well, well, well! Oh, well, just move over two seats

to your right and make a scratch! Make two scratches, two seats to your right. Have a talk

to the Minister of Environment and Labour; have a talk to the Minister of HRD; have a talk

to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation; have a talk to all of those. Make a

few scratches on that side of the House!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: Mulroney's 500 Club is sitting just to your right, in

front of you. Now, make a few scratches over there. Be quiet, my son, you are only getting

yourself in deeper.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: You are only getting yourself in deeper over there.

It is hard to pick a seat over there now to sit in that would not be a Tory seat, I would

say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: Did he ever run for a nomination? Not likely. No,

sirree, there is none on this side, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, that is what he is not. Tory to the core, Mr.

Speaker. What a crowd on that side of the House, Mr. Speaker. Oh, the nerve to even

mention it.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I have to get on to this Budget. What other

mega-projects are on the go, I say to the -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SHELLEY: The big announcement about the gas project down in

Marystown.

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, yes, the big announcement a few years ago, with

the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology and the Premier going to Marystown with

this big announcement about the gas facility going to be down there. Nothing became of

that, Mr. Speaker, nothing at all. We have a Minister now of Development and Rural Renewal

who is doing what? Who is doing what in this Province, Mr. Speaker? Nothing! People are

still leaving right, left and center. No jobs, Mr. Speaker, and that is what has to happen

in this Province. We have to get a few jobs, Mr. Speaker.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I have so much more to say. I have reams and reams

of notes here, Mr. Speaker. Let me dig out a few now. Here! `... Newfoundlanders are

leaving the Province in record numbers.' Stats Can says, Mr. Speaker. Look at that, shrank

by 3,128 in 1996 and 2,126 in 1997. Mr. Speaker, it is unreal!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) a lot of information there.

MR. J. BYRNE: Information, there is too much here to - now I have

to take my glasses off here now to look at some of the stuff I have here.

Here is one, Mr. Speaker, under the Budget highlights, `... Government

will add 200 of the 425 teaching positions that would have been eliminated based on

declining enrollment.' Now, Mr. Speaker, is that not the typical approach of this

Administration? Sending out all kinds of fears that this is going to happen: `There are

going to be 2,000 lay-offs but we will only lay off 1,000' - that type of an approach all

the time. `We are going to lay off 425 teachers but we will add back 200 teachers.' Now

that is what is going on in this Province today. We have to get a government that is going

to be up front and forthright with the people of this Province. We are going to have to

get a government that rules on principle, Mr. Speaker, rather than polls. Mr. Speaker,

they cannot go outside and see what way the wind is unless they have a poll done to tell

them what they are going to do. Mr. Speaker, they rule on poll principle not principles

alone.

MR. SPEAKER (Oldford): On a point of order, the hon. the Member for

Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. G. REID: Mr. Speaker, the Member for Cape St. Francis said we

laid off 425 teachers - that is not correct. We laid off far, far, fewer than that. In

fact, at the end of the day, no teacher will lose his or her job. We will be actually

hiring an extra couple of hundred teachers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Now, Mr. Speaker, may I continue?

Now, let me correct the Member for Twillingate & Fogo. If he was

listening properly and I am sure there is no trouble to hear me, I said in the Budget here

- this is your own notes now - Budget highlights, put out by the government of this

Province, Mr. Speaker, it says, `... government will add back 200 of 425 teaching

positions that would have been eliminated.' `Would have been' I never said they were gone.

I am saying they put out the fear -

MR. G. REID: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, no, no. You should pay attention and know what is

in your Budget highlights, I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

So now, again, `an additional seventy units will be provided to help

those children with special needs and other disabilities.' Now, I have to say, that is a

good move. A positive small step. A small step but it is something that we agree with on

this side of the House. It is too bad it is not double that or triple that but it is a

small step in the right direction with respect to education in this Province.

It says, `... government will make a contribution of $3 million to the

Memorial University's Opportunity Fund, bringing its total contribution to date to $9.3

million.' Now, Mr. Speaker, with respect to Memorial University, that is another $9.3

million. We know that the Auditor General wants to go in there and do a full and proper

audit of Memorial University's funding and expenditures. Something like $134 million of

public monies is being spent by the University and from what I can gather and in

discussions with the Auditor General, they have some problems getting the information. She

can go in there and do an audit but she has some problems with certain information to be

forthcoming from Memorial University. I think that the Auditor General should have full

and uncontrolled access to all records, books, accounting statements and whatever the case

may be from Memorial University so she can do a full and proper audit.

Mr. Speaker, the monthly earning exemptions for those families with

dependants on income support will increase from $100 to $150. A small step, Mr. Speaker,

positive but not nearly enough.

Government will be spending $16 million on provincial road construction

and improvements, Mr. Speaker; not nearly, nearly enough, I would say, $16 million, not

nearly enough to be spent on the roads in this Province. Mr. Speaker, I could spend double

that in my district alone, and I know the Minister of Fisheries certainly would agree that

I should have that money to spend in my district.

MR. SHELLEY: Make note that the minister agrees. He will represent

you in Cabinet.

MR. J. BYRNE: Another point that we should address, I suppose, in

the Budget, is the cuts. There were supposed to be no cuts this year, Mr. Speaker, but all

the cuts were announced last year.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Wait until you find something out, buddy, wait until

you find out!

Mr. Speaker, the cuts were all announced last year and they are going

to be implemented this year and next year, whatever the case may be; but they were not

announced the second time around, they were not announced four and five times like

anything positive. The negative

part is always hidden, Mr. Speaker, and it is hidden in

this Budget this year, no doubt about it. They will be implemented this year.

Now, Mr. Speaker, some of these ads: What is it costing the Province to

spend on some straight talk about the Churchill River power projects? How much money are

we spending on these ads, Mr. Speaker? I don't know. I expect it is probably $1,000 a shot

for one of these ads, I would think, full-page ads.

AN HON. MEMBER: More than that.

MR. J. BYRNE: Is it?

AN HON. MEMBER: They are paying that much for the taxes.

MR. J. BYRNE: There you go. I am not going to make a comment on

that, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: What is your position on that?

MR. J. BYRNE: What is my position on that? I will tell you what my

position is on the Churchill Falls deal. My position is that hopefully it comes to

fruition. The transmission line to the Island is very important, but it has to be done

right this time, Mr. Speaker. My fear is that we have an Administration, that same party

that was in power when we did the Upper Churchill Falls - it has to be done right.

AN HON. MEMBER: What is your position?

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the people on that side of the House are

quite clear in asking me what my position is. I wonder what the position of the Member for

Labrador West is. Is he going to get up and say a few works on this Budget, Mr. Speaker? I

am not sure he is going to.

Now, another point I think we should also address with respect to this

Budget, Mr. Speaker, is a referral to the Auditor General's Report that was presented

almost the same day, within days of the Budget. The Auditor General had some serious

questions with respect to some of the privatization that went on over the past few years.

Of course, Newfoundland Hardwoods was one of those.

I have asked questions in this House of Assembly of the Minister of

Finance with respect to the $7 million that we were supposed to receive, but only received

$5.6 million. It is a difference of $1.4 million, Mr. Speaker. There is supposed to be a

10 per cent net income until the year 2000. We do not have the financial statements for

1996 and 1997. So, how does the Province know if we got 10 per cent of the net income of

the new company, Mr. Speaker?

Another point that needs to be addressed is: They were supposed to

spend $39,000 on consultant fees, Mr. Speaker. The consultant fees went from $39,000 up to

$900,000. Shameful!

Think we should tell them, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: No.

MR. J. BYRNE: Anyway, the Industrial Benefits Agreement for

Newfoundland and Labrador Computer Services: There have been, I believe, three annual

reports put in but the government has not reviewed the reports or confirmed or verified

the reports, Mr. Speaker. So, how do we know if the benefits that were negotiated have

been met? These are some of the things that need to be addressed, Mr. Speaker.

A couple of the companies involved, Mr. Speaker, have not lived up to

their commitments. I will not necessarily get into those right now. Those are some things,

I think, for the PAC and what have you.

Another point in the Budget, Mr. Speaker, that needs to be looked at is

the Health Care Corporation of St. John's; some serious questions there, of course. I

think I may have mentioned this once or twice before in the House of Assembly. The Health

Care Corporation of St. John's, Mr. Speaker, has already had a report done by the Auditor

General presented to the Public Accounts Committee. There are some problems with respect

to the numbers government is using over the past years.

I think when they first started out, for re-organization purposes, the

Health Care Corporation in and around St. John's was something like $300 million. Then it

went down to $100 million. Now it is up to $137 million, and that does not include the

purchasing of the Grace and St. Clare's and what have you. That does not include those

figures, and it does not include the relocation fees of the Janeway and the capital

expenditure for equipment and what have you for the Janeway. It does not include fees for

closing down the Janeway and the Grace. She has some questions there that need to be

addressed. We have to look at the complete accuracy of the figures.

Over the past few years, of course, the Health Care Corporation has had

some deficits. I do not know if theirs are going to be included in the re-organization

costs for the Health Care Corporation for St. John's. In 1996-1997, it was a $4.8 million

deficit, in 1997-1998, it was a $6.8 million, and in 1998-1999 it was a $10 million

deficit, a total of $21.6 million over three years, I say to you. What impact will that

have on the cash flow for the Health Care Corporation of St. John's? Can the objectives be

met by the amount of money that is being put in?

I think government is talking about saving something like $20.5 million

per year: $13.5 million of which will be used to finance the $130 million which is

supposed to be the figure to restructure the Health Care Corporation of St. John's, and

$7.2 million will go back into health care. I do not know if those numbers are realistic.

Hopefully they are. Because if they are not realistic, next year, along with the

structural deficit that we have inherent in the system because of the way the money has

been spent over the past few years, that it is going to be even a worse situation. That is

why I expect we will not see another budget in this House of Assembly before an election.

We will probably have an election before next March 31, or slightly thereafter. They may

close the House to call an election next spring, if not earlier, so they will not have to

deal with this, get it by the people, and then hit them hard in the first year of a

mandate.

Mr. Speaker, the best laid plans of mice and men... The members on that

side of the House should keep that in mind, that plans do not always work out. We have

plans on this side of the House, too, to foil the plans of the Premier of the Province for

re-election. Realistic plans, we have. I do not know if that side has realistic plans.

Some other things that the Budget, I suppose, and the Auditor General's

Report, is the problem with the vehicle fleet management. The vehicle fleet management was

supposed to be cut down to somewhere around 400 or 500 vehicles, but it is still up to

869. The cost to purchase those vehicles is something like $15 million. The cost to

maintain and operate those vehicles per year is $15 million. We have a system in place

which is very questionable with respect to the proper controls on the use of vehicles. The

use of credit cards with these vehicles was not properly -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I have all kinds of notes.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member asked for leave and was granted leave some time ago.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible)!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) ask for leave.

MR. J. BYRNE: I did, yes. When I got up. I had two minutes left

when I got up.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The member asked for leave and was granted leave.

MR. J. BYRNE: I asked for leave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No leave!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Leave is withdrawn.

The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Are you rising on a point of order?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: You want to talk, do you?

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you on a point of order?

MR. SHELLEY: No, are you?

MR. SPEAKER: I recognized the Member for Baie Verte. He rose to

speak prior to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture rising.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, my first -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Do you want to speak? No, does he want to speak? You

go (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I hope the matter has been ratified, because

it is normal that we go back and forth across the House. As I understand, the Minister of

Fisheries and Aquaculture rose to enter into debate.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, I sat through thirty minutes which seemed

to be thirty hours listening to all of the so-called points that the hon. member made on

the opposite side. I cannot believe, but I want to read the amendment. I think members

opposite should listen to this: To move the following amendment - an amendment that should

be read out in the House -

...this House acknowledge that government's ability to manage

competently the Province's finances, its ability to live up to its duty and its promise to

provide adequate direction and funding for social programs such as health and services,

its ability to secure the future of our Province by investing appropriately in educating

students and its ability to discharge effectively its responsibility to plan for and

invest in economic recovery and employment growth in the Province, particularly in rural

areas so desperately in need of development and jobs.

AN HON. MEMBER: That is not the amendment.

MR. EFFORD: That is the amendment as I see it, Mr. Speaker. That is

the type of amendment that should be written to a government who performed after such an

abysmal mess that we took over in 1989.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. EFFORD: That was the amendment. Let me talk about it, Mr.

Speaker. When the Liberals went out of power in 1971-1972, they left a debt in this

Province of $800 million. When the Tories went out of power in 1989, they left in excess

of $7 billion in debt. Since 1989, we have had to spend our total time managing the

Province's finances in order to make up and get rid of that extraordinary waste of money

that they carried on for over a decade - over $7 billion.

Let me tell you what they proposed in the last election. One of the

proposals in the last election by the former government: we will put $75 million in the

Province in the economy, in the industry today, to build 75 new fish plants.

MR. TULK: Are you serious? Repeat it so I can hear it.

MR. EFFORD: Seventy-five million dollars to build and to open 75

new fish plants. Now, in 1989 when we took over the government there were 335 existing

fish plants in the Province - 335 fish plants in the Province. Two years ago, when I took

over as minister, there were 245 fish plants and they want to open another 75 new fish

plants. Now, that is managing the economy at a time when the whole of the groundfish

industry was closed down. There is an opportunity for economic development. The former

Minister of Finance, the hon. John Collins, what was it he said: Kick-start the industry,

kick-start the economy.

AN HON. MEMBER: Bill Marshall said the Premier was going to

over-heat the economy.

MR. EFFORD: Over-heat the economy. There is a sure way of

over-heating the economy, when you could not create an opportunity in rural Newfoundland

today to expand the fishing industry, to put an extra 75 new plants in the fishing

industry and get them to operate. At a time when the whole groundfish industries is closed

down, that is a brilliant way to kick-start and overheat the economy, Mr. Speaker. There

is a time when we all get jubilant in Newfoundland and we all - Mr. Speaker, over $7

billion in debt in 1989. The first time, after all that debt we had to take over and

manage and get our house in order, the first time in the history of the Province that this

government have brought in a balanced Budget, and of all the financial problems that we

have had, after all of trying to get the house back in order not only in the fishing

industry, not only in education, not only in the health industry, it has been in all other

services, in all industries across the Province that were involved by government, what did

we do? We brought in a balanced Budget. Make no wonder they would introduce such an

amendment to the resolution that this House acknowledged the government's ability to

manage the Province's finances. That is a congratulatory amendment, not an amendment to

condemn, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talked about spending money and wasting

money - and I just forget one of the references he made but let me tell him about the -

the hon. member should be aware of cigars. Let us talk about cigars; let us talk about the

rented -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. EFFORD: Oh, I know what it was. The hon. member was making

reference to the ads that were taken out about the Churchill. Well, Mr. Speaker, it is

time to put some good news in this Province; it is time to build up the confidence of the

people and tell the people of this Province there is a hope for the future. What is wrong

with creating a positive attitude?

One of the biggest problems we have had in this Province over the past

number of years is: No hope for the future, negative attitude consuming our young people.

Make no wonder when I speak to people in high schools they say: `The first thing I am

going to do is leave the Province,' and I ask: `Why? Why would you want to leave the

Province?' `Well, there are no opportunities in this Province.' I ask: `What do you mean,

there are no opportunities?' `Well, that is what I hear every day; that is what I have

been told every day.' So, we create, we turn around and give our young people hope for the

future, as they said, the educated, the cream of the crop, those people are leaving every

day, and if you look at rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and you look at the

out-migration, it is not all because of the closure of the fishery or the downturn in the

fishery.

It is not because we have had some problems in the forest industry; it

is simply because the young people of this Province are not given any hope. They first

thing they are told around the kitchen table in the communities, in the schools is: There

are no opportunities in Newfoundland. To take out an ad to run a little bit of good news

in the local papers or in the papers around the Province, Mr. Speaker, is the right thing

to do. There is no cost that can be put on that because our young people need to be

encouraged to take the advantages that are there.

But let me go back to pre-1989. What type of expenditures did we have

pre-1989? Let us talk about cigars; let us talk about the limousine services; let us talk

about when you drive up to a hotel and the Premier of the Province gives a $250-tip for a

limousine. That is a waste of money, Mr. Speaker, that is what contributed towards the

massive debt, irresponsible actions and the good living are what contributed to the

wasteful management of the affairs.

AN HON. MEMBER: How much did (inaudible).

MR. EFFORD: If we had not had to take over that massive debt that

we took over in 1989, according to the way the Minister of Finance has managed that debt

and got it under control and got the deficit under control since 1989, if we had not had

to manage that debt, can you imagine where we would be today? Can you just imagine where

this Province would be today with its economy and with its ability to create opportunities

in rural Newfoundland and Labrador? What we need to do?

AN HON. MEMBER: What did Joey start off with in 1949?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, what was the surplus then?

MR. EFFORD: When Joey started off in 1949, Mr. Speaker, I do not

think there were too many hospitals in Newfoundland; I do not think there were too many

roads in Newfoundland. I do not think there were too many schools in Newfoundland, I do

not think there was too many municipal service in Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker. Let us go

back to 1949 when we joined Canada and what we had, not only in rural Newfoundland but

anywhere around Newfoundland and Labrador. Let us look at what was there when he went out

of power twenty-five years later, then let us look at what was there when they took over

power in 1972 and look what was there when they went out of power in 1989. There is a

major difference, Mr. Speaker. Give credit where credit is due. We did not have a road in

this Province worth driving over or walking over; we did not have a decent hospital in the

Province, in rural Newfoundland and Labrador; we did not have any decent schools in

Newfoundland, and everything started to change, Mr. Speaker. But I will tell you what we

had after ten years of Tory rule. We had 340-plus fish plants and the will and desire by

the next leader to create another seventy-five fish plants in the Province. That is what

we had.

Out on the Avalon Peninsula, where I live, fifty-seven fish plants.

Now, there is managing finances! I have not even gotten to the pickle factories yet. We

have got to the resources, where the resources were, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

AN HON. MEMBER: How much did the House cost (inaudible)?

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, the House never cost one-tenth of what was

dumped in Robin Hood Bay. The House never cost one-tenth of what the dump trucks hauled

out to Robin Hood Bay.

MR. TULK: Even the cows would not eat it.

MR. EFFORD: Even the cows would not eat it, Mr. Speaker.

If we want to talk about what was wasted, let us get down to `Bev's

dip', another waste of money.

AN HON. MEMBER: Do you have the book?

MR. EFFORD: I do not need the book anymore, I can remember it, when

all of those famous Newfoundland wives of the famous politicians created that pickle book,

and distributed it around the Province, in rural Newfoundland where there was going to be

a pickle factory in every community in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague said: You talk about creating pickle

factories, when they could not even get the cows to eat it. They took it out to Robin Hood

Bay and the gulls would not even touch it.

Mr. Speaker, there is hope for this Province, there is a lot of hope,

there is a bright future. The one thing that we all have to do in this Province is we have

to get serious. We have to look at the youth of thi