April

4, 2000

RESOURCE

COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 87, Wally Andersen, MHA for

Torngat Mountains, substitutes for Percy Barrett, MHA for Bellevue, and Bob

French, MHA for Conception Bay South, substitutes for Roger Fitzgerald, MHA for

Bonavista South.

The Committee met at 4:30 p.m. in Room 5083.

CHAIR (Mercer): Order, please!

I ask the Committee to look at the minutes of the last

meeting in which we deliberated the Estimates of the Department of Development

and Rural Renewal. I ask for a motion to accept the minutes as presented.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: I just have a couple of introductory

comments. The way in which the Committee has decided that it will handle the

Estimates is to do all discussion and debate under the first head, which then

allows each member to be flexible. He or she can ask questions on any part of

the Estimates without having to go through them step by step. So all discussions

and debate will be done under head 1.1.01.

The way in which we have proceeded in the past is that

the minister will make some introductory comments. We try to limit them to

fifteen minutes - with some ministers that is easy, with some ministers it is

not - and then we pass it to the Vice-Chairman. In this case it will be Mr.

French, in the absence of Roger Fitzgerald, and then we alternate back and forth

until all the questions have been asked.

Before we do that, though, I would ask the members of

the Committee to identify themselves, starting with my friend at the far left.

MR. ANDERSEN: Wally Anderson, MHA for Torngat

Mountains, Liberal.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Ralph Wiseman, MHA for Topsail.

MR. FRENCH: Bob French, Conception Bay South,

Tory.

CHAIR: Bob Mercer, Member for Humber East,

Chairman of the Committee. Absent are Yvonne Jones, the Member for

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, and Mr. Ray Hunter, the Member for

Windsor-Springdale, both of whom will be with us a little later.

That being done, I would ask the Clerk to call the

first head.

CLERK: 1.1.01.

CHAIR: 1.1.01 has been called. I would now ask the

minister to introduce his staff and to make some introductory comments.

Mr. Minister.

MR. FUREY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I do not have a prepared text for introductory

comments but I will say a few words about the department.

On my left, first of all, is Robert Thompson who is

the Deputy Minister, who I am sure most members are familiar with; and on my

right is Gerry Crocker who is the Director of Finance. Also attending today is

our newly minted Assistant Deputy Minister of Culture, Heather McLellan, who

comes to us with a sterling reputation from Parks Canada, and we are delighted

to have her on board as a member of the provincial team.

I guess my opening comments would be to say to you

that since I reported last year to this Committee the tourism numbers are

continually showing a growth path. In the last three years we have grown some 32

per cent which is phenomenal when you compare us against other jurisdictions,

and when you measure it against the very small tourism budget that we have to

work with versus other jurisdictions. I think our budget, even though it was

doubled this year, when you compare it to other jurisdictions we have to be very

smart with our money and leverage the money up.

A couple of examples of that that I gave last year

proved to be true again this year. Last year I told you about Cabot where we

spent something in the order of $8 million, but leveraged up $35 million worth

of free publicity throughout the world. This year, as we started the new

millennium, we spent $800,000 of provincial money on the waterfront to bring the

world to Newfoundland and Labrador through St. John's, L'Anse aux Meadows, and

other areas of the Province. It turns out that our leveraged ripple effect of

free advertising right across the world turned out to be in the range of $45

million to $50 million. An example of that would be Kevin Newman working for ABC

on the waterfront going live to New York City at the countdown of the millennium

with Peter Jennings in Time Square. They gave us fourteen live minutes right

across the United States of America where they showed us afterwards in the

demographic counts that they had some 70 million viewers, and we were captured

in that fourteen minutes. It is quite extraordinary how we take a small budget,

leverage it up, maximize each dollar and triple, quadruple and get ten times -

in some circumstances - for our advertising dollars.

You see the payback in the numbers that are happening

in tourism. A 32 per cent increase in three years is nothing to sneeze about,

and we are forecasting another 8 per cent growth this year with the Vikings.

The other thing I should report is that with respect

to capacity, this was a very serious issue some time ago when we began the forum

across the Province, where we held a forum in Port aux Basques, a forum in

Corner Brook, in Central Newfoundland, Argentia and St. John's, to talk about

and bring to life the whole issue of the capacity to get people to and from the

Province. Because we believed, and we do believe, that if you cannot expand the

capacity you are going to choke off and stagnate your growth in tourism and in

business generally; because we saw the trucking problems, and we saw the

problems of movement of goods to and from the Province. I am happy to report

that I have been briefed privately by the Chairman of Marine Atlantic and there

have been some substantive changes coming, both in respect to headquarters, the

new president, changes to service upgrading, infusion of dollars for quality

service, and indeed for capacity this summer. In fact, the configuration that

they are looking at this summer, which will be a leased vessel because their

purchase does not kick in until next year - incidentally the purchase allows

them to recover enough money to pay for this leased arrangement this summer, so

it is a net wash with respect to that system. The new ferry that will come on

and will be announced in the next few weeks will gain a 25 per cent capacity on

the Gulf, which is terrific.

We are projecting another very good year. This is the

third ace in our deck. I would like to tell everybody we have four aces in our

deck: Cabot 500 Celebrations, Soiree 99, Vikings!1000 this year, and Marconi

next year. Marconi, in our celebrations office, have started a small group down

that path to start thinking about it. We have met with the Italian Ambassador.

We are doing some very big thinking on this subject, because you know that the

wireless burst of communications that have occurred over the last 100 years all

started right here in Newfoundland at Signal Hill when that first wireless

message came through.

We have had meetings with expatriate Newfoundlanders

who were very high up in the IT sector throughout Washington and other parts of

Canada, to try to build around Marconi not just a tourism event but an

international IT event and try to focus the world on the place where this whole

revolution in communications occurred and began, so that is under way.

I am happy to report that the new monies that came

into the department, we were one of the few resource departments to capture new

money this year. Most of the new expenditures you saw in the Budget went to

health care and education. On the resource side, we were able to contribute

$400,000 to the Heritage Association of Newfoundland and Labrador. We bumped up

sports by 50 per cent, and there may be other monies to be found for sports.

Another $200,000 will be infused in there. We have contributed $500,000 to the

Labrador Winter Games, and that is issued to them in trust. We have increased

the Arts Council by 50 per cent, another $250,000 into their arm's length

account to allow them to, under a peer review, spend as they see fit. A lot of

people do not realize, but the arts community and the cultural community

contribute some 6,000 jobs directly to the economy and have a net worth

throughout the economy of $200 million. On the cultural side, we are building

that and pushing that and trying to expand it.

We have set aside, as you know, $570,000 for the

transition work for "The Rooms", which is the new museum, art gallery and

archival building for which we just unveiled the conceptual plans with the

architects last week. There is $40 million set aside for that; $5 million set

aside for increasing the capacity of Sir Wilfred Grenfell College for a new art

centre in Corner Brook. We have set aside $500,000 for the ten ports of call

when the Islendingur , the ship coming from Iceland, will visit

Newfoundland and be the centerpiece of the Viking! 1000 Years celebrations, to

make sure we have a magnificent celebration in each of those ports. We have

contributed $2.5 million to the Viking! 1000 Years celebrations, and I can speak

to that issue if you want me to talk about the breakdown.

The last two points I would make is that under the

payroll tax we have increased the threshold to allow 1,300 new businesses to

come off the burden of payroll tax. Many of them are small tourism operations

throughout the Province, I should tell you, and that is a big plus.

Lastly, we are working on the final elements of a

federal/provincial agreement for cultural industries which will be somewhere in

the order of a $5 million agreement over a four-year period to stimulate and

keep the growth going on the cultural side as well.

With those opening remarks, Mr. Chairman, I would be

happened to answer any questions you may have, or any of my team that are here

can answer the questions.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

Mr. French, and then we will move on to - it is up to

yourselves (inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I will lead off today, rather than my colleague,

Roger, who unfortunately could not be here.

I would just like to say to the minister that while we

all watched the New Year's Eve celebrations from the St. John's waterfront, I

believe that this government should give our national television network, CBC -

CHAIR: Mr. French, is your mike on?

MR. FRENCH: I am sorry.

CHAIR: When the officials speak, if they could

identify themselves please.

MR. FRENCH: We should give CBC a royal kick in the

pants because, if there was coverage on New Year's Eve, CBC, which is our

national outfit, had to be the absolute worst, I say to the minister, that I

ever seen. I have seen them do some foolish and stupid things, but CBC, on New

Year's Eve, to me, was the absolute worst. There was certainly much better

coverage on NTV; CBC had to be the absolute worst.

Minister, I think that somebody should probably put a

bug in CBC's ear. If they are going to cover Newfoundland, and they are going to

do a good job of it, then let's do a good job of it; because I really and truly

do not believe, and a lot of the people I spoke with certainly do not believe,

that CBC did a very good job of promoting our Province on New Year's Eve when it

was a chance that CBC could have showcased us all across this country and even

down in the United States. I have friends who live in America, who watched our

New Year's Eve celebrations on American TV because there was absolutely nothing

on CBC.

As well, it is nice to see some extra money in this

budget for sport. As early as today -

MR. FUREY: Could I just make a point on CBC? I

should tell you that I did register a letter of complaint to the CBC. Not only

did they screw up and give just little snippets of Newfoundland - and I agree

with you, there was arrogance beyond comprehension - but they even missed the

final countdown. They were not there for Great Big Sea's finale, to count it

down, the first place in North America.

I think there was a bit of friction there because they

had come to us early in the game and wanted exclusive rights and we said no. We

put it up on a satellite and let everybody run with it. CNN ran with it, Spanish

Television - friends of mine saw it in Houston - ABC, NBC. All of them ran with

it. I think there was a little bit of an arrogant slight to the Province because

they did not have exclusive rights, but you are quite right. Your observations

are spot on. They gave better coverage to Israel, Jerusalem and Cairo, and

everywhere else on the plant but their own country, in my view. Even in little

P.E.I., they chased around people on a train there for awhile and ignored

Newfoundland. They didn't give Newfoundland and Labrador the prominence that it

deserved, given that we would be the first ones to celebrate because of our time

zone, so I quite agree with you. It was a terrible display of arrogance on

behalf of CBC.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Minister.

As I was going to say, as early as today I called the

department looking for information on the extra funding that is in the Budget

for sport and recreation in this Province, and unfortunately I did not get the

answer that I was looking for. I wanted to know if there was a breakdown done as

to who was going to receive this money. Was it going to be Newfoundland and

Labrador Amateur Sports? Was it going to be my old alma mater, Softball

Newfoundland, Baseball Newfoundland, Soccer Newfoundland or the NAHA?. Who was

going to receive this money? I was told that the decision had not been made yet

as to exactly how the department had intended to spend that money. I would have

hoped that, while a lot of these organizations have to get on with what they are

doing over this summer and to plan for this year and into next year, the money

would have been available today, that we could have said to Sport Newfoundland

and Labrador: Yes, your grant is up by $40,000 or $50,000, or you don't get an

increase. I would have thought that we would have been ready to do this by now.

To me, that was a very disappointing thing, Mr. Chairman.

That is it for me for opening comments. If you wish I

can now move into the questioning.

MR. FUREY: Would you like for me to comment on

that just for a minute?

MR. FRENCH: If you can, yes. If you might,

minister, could you tell us how we are going to spend this extra money?

MR. FUREY: Yes. You probably know that the

director of sport, Jimmy Tee -

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. FUREY: - who is over there and does terrific

work and is a terrific individual. I mandated him to come to me with a plan on

how to spend the extra money. The problem, Mr. French, was that coming close to

budget we had x, but has we got closer to the budget it changed to y and became

more. We barely got our numbers in there on time so it changed some of the

configurations and thinking over in the sport and recreation department.

I can tell you that I think he is ready to come with

that plan very soon. It is just a matter of sitting down with him and saying:

Here is how they propose it, here is why they propose it, and then we will let

the groups know.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you.

Minister, you probably heard me today speak in the

House because one of the questions I asked was to you. This really intrigues me

as I go through this budget. In subhead 1.1.01.03, Minister's Office,

Transportation and Communications, in the previous year we budgeted $88,900, we

went up to $121,600, and now we are gone back to $88,900 again. Why is that? Is

the only one whose travel list can be accessed is yours, or would it include

officials from your department?

MR. FUREY: Mr. French, I say this every year

before this Committee and I sound like a broken record. They have never, ever,

in the last ten years kept up with inflation or real costs to do business in the

world. They always pick a nominal sum and put it there. We always go over it, we

always tell them we are going to go over it, and we are always sitting here

looking stupid and embarrassed because it looks like we went way over our

budget.

The reality is those are the real costs to do

business, to fly to Labrador, to fly to Iceland, to go to Norway, to meet the

Ingstads, to do the kinds of work that we do out promoting the Province. These

are the real costs. It is really stupid. I keep telling them at Treasury Board -

I am not saying the people at Treasury Board are stupid. I am saying on the

political level we are just not being smart by putting in the real numbers. The

real number that should be there is about $125,000 and I should be sitting here

saying: I came in under $300,000. That is the real world, but those are the real

costs. You look at entertainment and Purchased Services. I look like I have

spent way up on the moon. One dinner in Iceland with the President at a state

dinner over there, $5,000. One dinner. Think about it. The costs are enormous.

Any time you move around the world, particularly if you are talking American

currency, look out, because it is not a dollar you are spending, it is $1.50.

I am going to Ireland to receive some gifts that are

made at the Waterford Crystal Factory in two weeks' time. They have built a

crystal ship, a Viking ship, they are presenting to the Province. I was talking

to the people today and they were saying the hotel is $700 a night. I said: That

is ridiculous, just a straight normal hotel. Then we used the Embassy to get it

down to $400, then we used some connections that we have here in the Irish

community, and the room is all of a sudden now $350. That is still a lot of

money, but that is the price of doing business. The cost of hotels in Iceland

are outrageous. Even the hotels in Canada now are getting way out of whack.

MR. FRENCH: I guess, minister, you know for

1.1.01.06 you would give me the same answer. We budgeted $8,800 and we spent

$31,300, and this year we have gone back to $8,800 again. It looks stupid to me.

MR. FUREY: It really looks stupid.

MR. FRENCH: If we are going to spend $31,300 this

year and if it is necessary to spend $31,300 next year, I think we should have

$31,300 in there this year.

MR. FUREY: I agree, and the real cost there should

be around $25,000, but we had some extraordinary entertainment things that we

did this year for various visitors coming. Like I just mentioned, for the

Italian Ambassador we hosted a small meal for him. That is $2,000. You are

right, it is not the real cost of doing business in the real world.

Unfortunately, it makes us look stupid because it looks like we had a fixed

budget and on the revised side of the ledger it looks like we have blown it

right over the top of the roof. We really haven't, they are just the real costs

in the real world.

MR. FRENCH: Further down the page, 1.2.01.03,

Transportation and Communications again, we budgeted $57,300, we spent $101,300,

and this year we are going to spend $57,300 again. Are those realistic figures

or are they not?

MR. FUREY: Under Executive Support?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. FUREY: No, they are not real figures either,

Mr. French. They are nominal sums and they could have picked any number out of

the air and put it there. You see, the deputy gets called away to negotiations

on the two national parks in Labrador. He has to deal with tourism associations

all across the Province. He is going to deputies' meetings and negotiating

cultural industry agreements and so on. It does not take long to chew up that

$50,000. He is in the hundred bracket easily as we get partway through the year.

WITNESS: The two Assistant Deputy Ministers are in

that category as well.

MR. FRENCH: We were not very much over, but again,

under 1.2.01.06, Executive Support, Purchased Services, we have gone from $9,200

to $13,700.

MR. FUREY: Again, I would argue the same argument.

You see, if you look at the Estimates even as far back as - and I remember

having this debate with Neil Windsor when he was tourism minister. I would say

put in the real number. Whatever your costs are, put them in, but they always,

at Treasury Board, want to put in nominal numbers and the nominal numbers do not

reflect the real world numbers of doing business.

MR. FRENCH: On page 162, under 1.2.02.03,

Administrative Support, Transportation and Communications, we are going to spend

$701,400. Can I ask exactly where that is going to be spent and who would access

that money?

MR. FUREY: Seven-hundred and one thousand dollars?

MR. FRENCH: It is Administrative Support and it is

.03.

MR. CROCKER: Yes, that is under administration.

That is the telephone costs for the full department plus the postage costs also.

MR. THOMPSON: That also includes telephone and

postage for the other two departments that we support, or is this just -

MR. CROCKER: .No.

MR. THOMPSON: It is just our department? Okay.

MR. CROCKER: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: Again, in 1.2.02.06, Purchased

Services, we are going to spend $216,300. What are going to spend that on?

MR. CROCKER: Most of that would be printing costs

and advertising costs and also purchased repairs and maintenance for the whole

department.

MR. FRENCH: Could I ask who does the advertising

for the department?

MR. FUREY: You mean the tourism advertising?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. FUREY: Yes. It is a company called Bristol

Communications and Bristol has had the contract, I think, for the last

two-and-half years.

WITNESS: Less than that. Almost two.

MR. FUREY: Two years, yes. That is a three-year

contract?

WITNESS: Yes.

MR. FUREY: So, they have another year left on

their contract.

MR. THOMPSON: Of course, this is not the budget

from which the Tourism account, the marketing expenditures, are drawn from. This

would be for other kinds of administrative advertising. From this account as

well we take repairs of office equipment or rental of photocopiers and normal

office related expenses.

MR. FUREY: Yes, the Tourism account, Mr. French,

you are talking about is 2.1.01 -

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. FUREY: - which is about $4 million there under

that subhead for -

MR. FRENCH: Yes, I am coming to that.

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: Again, it is not very much, but under

1.2.03.03, Planning, Policy and Research, Transportation and Communications, we

spent double what we budgeted to spend and this year we are gone back to $18,500

again.

MR. FUREY: Yes. I mentioned earlier in my

conversation the forum that we had across the Province, which were the five

forums for the Gulf Ferry. You will see .05, Professional Services, an $80,000

variance; in .06, Purchased Services, a $30,000 variance; and in .03,

Transportation and Communications, a $20,000 variance. That was the total cost

of consultants and to move the committee across the Province, to pay for their

transportation, hotels, to receive briefs, and to construct the report and put

the final report in the public domain. So that was a one-shot cost.

MR. FRENCH: Yes. On page 163 under 2.1.01,

Tourism, there is .03, Transportation and Communications, $376,200. Who would be

using this money?

MR. FUREY: Tourism marketing, 2.1.01.?

MR. FRENCH: Under 2.1.01.03.

MR. FUREY: That is the tourism marketing group.

How many are in that group?

WITNESS: Probably fifteen.

MR. FUREY: There are fifteen people in the

marketing group. That is their travel expenses, trade shows and various things

that we do around the world. They go and set up booths at various places. They

do various trade shows: the large one in Halifax, the one in Germany, the one in

Japan. These people go out and market the Province.

MR. FRENCH: Purchased Services, $4,036,300, that

is going to be spent mostly with Bristol?

MR. FUREY: No, that is mostly spent on ad

placement. Bristol, don't forget, because they are the agency, they take a

percentage of placement and they take a percentage of the cost of actual new

creative, but the lion's share of that money ends up in the television stations,

in National Geographic , Maclean's and Time Magazine, the

local newspapers here, the newspapers around the world that they target for us.

Yes, that is where Bristol would be paid its percentage for its creative work

and placement work.

MR. FRENCH: Who is covered off under Grants and

Subsidies, $2,054,000?

MR. FUREY: Remember when I talked earlier in my

talk about the Province contributing money to the Vikings! 1000 celebrations?

That is where that money would come from, and that would cover such things as

our cost share of the Islendingur. It would cover the Grand Encampment

site that is being constructed at L'Anse aux Meadows, the Snorri project, the

Sno Tour project, the Full Circle project. All of that would come out of there.

MR. FRENCH: On page 164, in Transportation and

Communications we budgeted $58,000, we spent $57,200, and this year we are going

to spend $56,100.

MR. FUREY: In Transportation and Communications?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, in 3.1.01.03. Who is covered off

in there?

MR. FUREY: I am sorry, I don't have the pages in

my particular book. Are you at 3.1.01.?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, 3.1.01.03.

MR. FUREY: It is $1,900. You are wondering why it

is a $1,900 -

MR. FRENCH: No, I am wondering who is covered off

in there.

MR. FUREY: Culture and Heritage, Heather, who is

covered off there? I am just kidding.

MR. THOMPSON: The Newfoundland Museum is the main

part of that budget, and all of the people employed at the main and branch

museums as well as the historic sites group, and the director and related

administrative staff at headquarters.

MR. FRENCH: Okay.

Down in the same category there, Purchased Services,

$138,200, what does that cover?

MR. CROCKER: That would be the same type of

purchased services; you would get your printing and advertising, repairs and

maintenance, the generic type line objects.

MR. FRENCH: Grants and Subsidies, $318,700; who is

covered in there?

MR. FUREY: Remember when I mentioned earlier in my

talk that we gave the Heritage Foundation of Newfoundland and Labrador a

one-time grant of $400,000? That is covered there, and I imagine our museum

grants are covered there as well?

WITNESS: There are other grants there, yes, grants

and subsidies.

MR. FUREY: Yes, that is right. Do you want me to

take you through some of these, Mr. French?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. FUREY: Okay.

The Resource Centre for the Arts, the LSPU Hall, we

gave them $11,500; the Newfoundland Quarterly, $16,000; Them Days

magazine out of Labrador, $37,000; National Theater School, $1,000, because they

take so many of our students; community museums and heritage, $81,000, which are

small grants to the museums around the Province; the Labrador -

MR. FRENCH: If I just might interject here, do we

have, under Culture and Heritage, a

section there whereby an artistic group in

Newfoundland who wanted to travel, for example, from St. John's to Port aux

Basques to take

part in a festival, do we have somewhere in here money budgeted

where they might apply to government for help, or would they have to go to the

Arts Council?

MR. FUREY: No, they would go to the Arts Council;

but what happens near the end of each fiscal year when there are some lapsed

balances.... For example, there was a group who came to me - I think Mr. Harris

or somebody brought them to me - a group called Under Wraps and they had

something like $100,000 raised and they needed to pick up $30,000 more to make

the tour complete. So we made some calls to NewTel and picked up some money

there and then we rifled through the department and picked up $20,000 for them

as well. There is no set program - I wish there were - but we increased the Arts

Council funding and they are an umbrella, arm's-length organization so we may be

able to get some help there.

MR. FRENCH: At least I did not tell my constituent

a lie. I told him he would have to go to the Arts Council. I did not think

government had any money.

MR. FUREY: The Labrador Straits Historical

Development Association, $18,000; Stephenville Festival, $16,000; Signal Hill

Tattoo, $36,000; and Heritage Fair is $2,000.

MR. FRENCH: Okay.

In 3.1.02.06., Purchased Services, we are going to

spend $1,290,800. What is that for?

MR. FUREY: That comes under the Arts and Culture

Centre. That is the theatre program for all of the theatres across the Province,

when we bring various groups in, and to run those centres. You will notice there

are offsetting revenues because the total cost of that is $2.5 million but the

buildings themselves and the events that occur there only pick up $800,000 in

revenue; so that $1.29 million is to pay for those various events that happen in

the Arts and Culture Centres.

MR. FRENCH: I only have a couple left, Mr.

Chairman.

On page 166, under Historic Sites Development,

Alterations to Existing Facilities, we budgeted $600,000. Could the minister

tell us what facilities they are going to be used on?

MR. FUREY: That is not for facilities, actually.

That is going into one facility. We have a very, very sensitive historic

property in Bonavista, the lighthouse. We had budgeted $600,000 last year to fix

it but the problem was that the consultants told us they needed very specialized

historic people to do a full analysis and to do it properly to restore it to its

own vintage time. That lighthouse, if we do not move on it this year, will be

lost forever. It is rated very high amongst the Heritage Association of

Newfoundland and Labrador and it must be done.

MR. FRENCH: I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, I thought I

only had a couple of questions left but I have more.

MR. FUREY: Mr. French, there is one other point I

think, that Robert -

MR. THOMPSON: I just wanted to add that we had a

briefing today from the Department of Works, Services and Transportation. That

is actually going to be going to tender within a week.

MR. FUREY: Great.

MR. THOMPSON: So the work will be all completed

this year.

MR. FRENCH: Down in 3.2.01., Provincial Archives

Operations, again in Purchased Services we budgeted $155,200. Can I ask who that

is going to be spent on, or what it is going to be spent for?

MR. FUREY: That $150,000 is part of the transition

for "The Rooms", the new archive museum and art complex. This is to buy, I

think, specialized equipment for protecting the materials that are there. The

$407,000 up top, in variance, is for salaries to hire specialists to look after

this archival material before we transfer it into the new facility.

WITNESS: And for the museum and art gallery.

MR. FUREY: For the museum as well, and the art

gallery.

MR. FRENCH: Will the Newfoundland and Labrador

Sports Hall of Fame be in these new facilities?

MR. FUREY: No.

MR. FRENCH: They will not?

MR. FUREY: No, I don't think so.

MR. THOMPSON: Aren't they at the Corner Brook

Civic Centre?

MR. FRENCH: I am not sure where they are now,

Robert.

MR. THOMPSON: I believe so.

MR. FRENCH: They could be anywhere.

CHAIR: No, the one in Corner Brook is the Hockey

Hall of Fame.

MR. FUREY: Could you identify yourself, please?

CHAIR: If he doesn't know by now, he will never

know.

MR. FRENCH: On to page 168 - I still have a few

more left - under Provincial Parks and Natural Areas, again under Transportation

and Communications, $159,800, and Purchased Services, under the same heading,

$153,200. Could the minister tells us again who is going to use it in

Transportation and Communications, and what are we getting in Purchased

Services?

MR. FUREY: It is the provincial parks and, of

course, it is for our people who work in the provincial parks. There has to be a

certain amount of budget there for mileage. Even though we provide vehicles and

stuff, there is cost to maintain and run these vehicles and the phone services,

et cetera, throughout the parks.

The Purchased Services, he tells me, includes

maintenance, repairs and upgrading to parks, the T'Railway and provincial parks.

Funding is also provided under Purchased Services for printing of brochures for

the parks, advertising, vehicles and equipment rentals. We have replaced most of

the vehicles this year in all of the parks.

MR. FRENCH: In Park Development, which is 4.1.02.,

in .06, Purchased Services, we have budgeted $200,000.

MR. FUREY: Again, this is a capital program to do

some repairs in the parks. Did you want to know which ones we are targeting?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, okay.

MR. FUREY: There is installation of new park

entrance signs at most of them; a continuation of a construction of a comfort

station at Notre Dame Park, $35,000; a completion of installation of dual

service at Lockston Path Park, $15,000; trail upgrade and remote campsites at

Butter Pot Park, $30,000; complete the rest area and landscaping from the

vandalism at The Arches last year, $10,000; install picnic shelter at Pistolet

Bay Park, $5,000; instruct a new rest area and lookout at Pinware River Park,

$10,000; a fire exit road improvements at La Manche Park on the Southern Shore,

$15,000.

MR. FRENCH: In Notre Dame Bay Park, is that not

privatized?

MR. FUREY: No.

MR. FRENCH: Might I suggest, minister, that that

would be one park that the department would not privatize.

MR. FUREY: Notre Dame Park?

MR. FRENCH: It is a very beautiful park.

MR. FUREY: It is, it is gorgeous.

MR. FRENCH: It is a great spot.

MR. FUREY: In J.T.Cheeseman Park, we are going to

put $28,000 in there; Notre Dame Park, $35,000 on top of what I just told you

about; Squires Memorial Park, $6,000; Sandbanks Park, $18,000; Blow Me Down

Park, $7,000; Dildo Run Park, $5,000; La Manche Park hiking trail, $7,000.

MR. FRENCH: Under 5.1.01.03,

Recreation-Operations, Transportation and Communications again, $104,500 was

budgeted. As well, .10, Grants and Subsidies, $1501,200 is budgeted, and I guess

that is the grants for the sport governing bodies.

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: In that $1,501,200, the $500,000 for

the Labrador Winter Games is not included in there. Am I correct?

MR. FUREY: I think it is, isn't it?

WITNESS: No it isn't.

MR. FUREY: No it isn't, no, right, it isn't.

MR. FRENCH: That would be the grants to the sport

governing bodies.

MR. FUREY: That covers sports governing bodies,

coaches, athletes -

WITNESS: The Newfoundland and Labrador Games.

MR. FUREY: The Newfoundland and Labrador Games. Is

Canada Winter Games included?

WITNESS: Canada Winter Games preparations, the

teams, for the next two cycles.

MR. FRENCH: As well as Summer Games preparations.

WITNESS: That is right.

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: The $104,500 under 5.1.01.03, that

would be for people in the department to travel?

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: Down in Community Sports Facilities

under Grants and Subsidies, 5.1.02.10, there is $199,000 budgeted. Can I ask

what that is for?

MR. FUREY: I am sorry. Where were you looking

again?

MR. FRENCH: Under 5.1.02.10, Grants and Subsidies,

$199,000.

MR. FUREY: Right. This is provided for a minor

recreation capital grant program which will support improvements and

construction of recreation facilities. Do you remember each year we manage to

give each member $2,000 throughout their district? That is where that comes

from.

MR. FRENCH: Under 6.1.01.10, Labrador Operations,

Grants and Subsidies, there is $205,000.

MR. FUREY: That is the Labrador travel subsidy.

MR. FRENCH: Okay. Under .03, Transportation and

Communications, that is for people within the department to travel?

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: On page 171, 7.1.01.03, Economic

Renewal Agreement, Transportation and Communications, there is a very

insignificant amount. It was $52,000 last year and this year we are gone down to

$10,000. It intrigues me as to why.

MR. FUREY: That is a phase down of the agreement.

It has expired.

MR. FRENCH: Under .10, Grants and Subsidies, we

budgeted $421,000, we spent $381,000, and this year we are only going to spend

$47,100.

MR. FUREY: Again, that is the last part of that

Economic Renewal Agreement. It is coming to an end. This will disappear next

year.

MR. FRENCH: Who could qualify for the $47,100 that

is left?

MR. CROCKER: This is cash flow on projects

previously approved so this is just payouts of pre-approved projects.

MR. FRENCH: Okay. Again, under Economic Renewal

Agreement, 7.1.02.06, $95,400 is what we budgeted and that is what we spent.

What would we have spent that on?

MR. CROCKER: This still would be a cost breakdown

according to project. We are just dividing the cost between the main object of

expenditure, whether it be travel, Purchased Services, Supplies or Property,

Furnishings and Equipment.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Chairman, if I might I would just

like to make another observation. When I started I left this out. I didn't leave

it out deliberately, it just slipped my mind.

Minister, when you talked about the ferry service

between Argentia, Port aux Basques and North Sydney, I have traveled that

service on quite a number of occasions in the last few years. I have family who

now live in Nova Scotia so I usually drive over once or twice a year. I have to

say that CN Marine, as far this member is concerned, treats us like cattle, they

treat us like the scum of the earth. When you see people coming with sleeping

bags, a man, his wife and two children by the hand, and they crawl in under a

set of stairs to go to sleep then as far as I am concerned CN Marine does not

give this Province the service that we deserve. I think we are at the last end

of the mile and that is exactly how the federal government and CN Marine treat

us.

I know over the last few days there has been questions

asked of you in the House concerning CN Marine, but I hope that CN Marine have

now got their act together, that their headquarters is eventually going to be

moved to Newfoundland. This service would not exist if it wasn't for

Newfoundland and Labrador. If it wasn't for us there would be no need of CN

Marine. I, personally, don't like the way they treat us. I have to say, from the

people who work on these ships that go across the Gulf and go from Argentia, I

can only say nice things about them. I have never been ill treated on any trip

that I have ever made, but the service that CN provides to this Province I think

is scandalous. At the end of this year they should never again be allowed to get

away with what they have gotten away with for so long.

MR. FUREY: Mr. French, I can only agree with you

100 per cent. That is why I coined the phrase constitutional cattle cars.' That

is what they are. They give us only what they are mandated and obliged by law to

give us and that is not good enough.

MR. FRENCH: No, I agree.

MR. FUREY: That is not good enough when you are

trying to build an industry.

We heard horror story after horror story on the road

when we went around on the ferry forum. It was just awful. You see it yourself,

like you just said. You go on with your family and go across. I used it a fair

bit too, but it is sickening to see. The boats are dirty, they are not clean,

they are not well cleaned, they are not properly staffed, the food is garbage,

and you are tripping over people all over the place. I saw a little kid curled

up on a counter in the bar falling asleep with drunk people everywhere. It is

terrible. They have to clean that up. They have to make it a proper service.

They have to put some real nice amenities on there for the kids. Movie theaters,

get some good food on there, and make it a comfortable, joyful experience, not

an ordeal. It should be an experience and right now it is an ordeal. It is a

bloody ordeal. I get a pain the gut just thinking about going across on it. It

shouldn't be the way it is.

MR. FRENCH: No, but it is.

MR. FUREY: I think we have a pretty good skipper

in charge there now. He understands boats, he understands people. Captain Sid

Hynes was a steward there twenty-seven years ago so he worked right in the

bowels of the operation. I think he is building partnerships with the union too,

and that is important. We really have to pick up the service and clean it up and

make it first class rather than substandard. I lay a lot of it at the feet of

MR. FRENCH: Yes, there is.

MR. FUREY: - because they treat us exactly - and

by the way, we should take some of the blame, too, for sitting back and taking

it.

MR. FRENCH: For sitting and tolerating it, yes.

MR. FUREY: It is bloody stupid.

MR. FRENCH: I have watched these things for years.

As I said, it is only the past couple of years that I have been going back and

forth as often. I have traveled a few other times before (inaudible). You accept

it because you figure that is the way it should be, but that is not really the

way it should be. You deserve better than that.

MR. FUREY: Do you think this service would be like

that if it were going between Montreal and Toronto?

MR. FRENCH: No, no way in the world.

MR. FUREY: Well, that is the issue, isn't it?

MR. FRENCH: Anyway, Mr. Chairman, I thank you,

Sir, for you time.

CHAIR: Mr. Wiseman?

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr.

Chairman.

I do not have specific questions as such but I

certainly want to commend the minister for a tremendous job that he has done in

that department in profiling the Province. I think it is only somebody with your

flair, actually, and ability, who could do such - and I say that in all

sincerity.

You have done an exceptional job with profiling the

Province around the world actually.

MR. FRENCH: (Inaudible). With Beaton, he was

trying to keep his job, Mr. Chairman.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: I understand, Mr. Chairman, the

kind of predicament it puts those people in who are not in Cabinet, or who do

not have a hope to be in a leadership position like you are in, but that is part

of the fray that we are in.

MR. FRENCH: It is a shame, Ralph, that you are

talking about yourself again.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: I just want to commend you for

the job that you have done, you and your staff. It is certainly paying dividends

for the Province.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Is there anything else you would like to

add to that flowered dissertation?

MR. FUREY: How many more of those shirts would you

like?

MR. FRENCH: Give him what he wants, Chuck.

CHAIR: Mr. Hunter.

Then we will go to Ms Jones.

MR. HUNTER: I was told by my colleague here not to

say anything tonight because I kept him here too long the other night, but I am

going to say something anyway.

Minister, I found it very difficult trying to sell the

waterfront celebrations in the rural parts of my district. Most people did not

care. Most people did not see it. The problems that were most on their minds

were their own conditions, where they live in the Province. Even though it may

financially benefit us in the tourism industry, the fact that we rubbed rural

Newfoundland's nose in the amount of money that was spent did turn off a lot of

people in rural Newfoundland. I heard more negative comments than positive

comments. It is not that I am totally against promoting Newfoundland, because I

am certainly all for promoting Newfoundland, but it was a hard sell, I must say.

That is all I have to say about that, Minister.

I do not know the department's policy on protecting

Newfoundland artifacts and antiques and stuff. Could you tell me what the policy

is in the department on trying to protect and keep these items in our Province?

MR. FUREY: Could you explain what you mean? Do you

mean like public artifacts, artifacts that are discovered on public property or

archeological digs?

MR. HUNTER: A combination of both. I can elaborate

more on it. A gentleman in Central Newfoundland has thousands, probably hundreds

of thousands, of dollars of stuff -

MR. FUREY: I know about that.

MR. HUNTER: - and he has been crying out for the

past three or four years for someone to help him with it.

MR. FUREY: The logging?

MR. HUNTER: Yes. Pat Mulrooney is his name.

MR. FUREY: Mayor Walwin Blackmore was in to see

me.

MR. HUNTER: Yes. I believe I have written your

department, too, on it.

MR. FUREY: We have reviewed all of that and we

have examples of everything he has. The question becomes -

MR. HUNTER: What does he do with the rest? Is

enough, enough? Or is too much too much?

MR. FUREY: I understand his position and we are

looking at this again. His real position is that he is getting older now and he

wanted to move into the community and this is a way to purchase a house for

himself.

MR. HUNTER: Yes.

MR. FUREY: We are taking a look at it but we have

done a first brush on it, Robert, as I recall, and everything that he has we

have samples or copies of.

MR. THOMPSON: We had a review and we are going to

do another. Anything that he has that we do not have in our collection that is

going to be of value we would offer to purchase, but if we have everything

interpreted already then we would say, it is okay if you want to sell that to

another collector because we at least have a good representation of all that

already in the Province within the possession of, actually, the Newfoundland

Museum, because that is the entity which the loggers exhibit comes under.

MR. HUNTER: So the policy of the department is, we

only need one? Is that the policy of the department?

MR. THOMPSON: Actually, generally that would be

the case. We do not need to have -

MR. HUNTER: You do not need a backup.

MR. THOMPSON: Not always. It depends upon the use

but -

MR. HUNTER: Okay, I see what you -

CHAIR: Robert, you must have been a very difficult

student in school. Please state your name.

MR. THOMPSON: I apologize. I am Robert Thompson.

MR. HUNTER: The point I am trying to make is that

we cannot let things like this leave the Province because I have seen it

firsthand and I have seen people there trying to buy it, to move it down to the

Unites States or across Canada or other places in the world. Regardless of

whether we have it not, I do not think we can allow this to leave the Province.

What if we had a fire somewhere, where all the other

things are, and we lose it all? How are we going to get back that heritage? How

are we going to get back these items to show our kids, grandchildren and

great-grandchildren if we don't have the second lot?

With the federal funding, I notice a lot of the

revenues that are coming are federal funding. Is it possible that we could find

federal grants and subsidies to help that gentleman?

MR. FUREY: It is possible. We are reviewing the

whole thing right now, as I told you, but we have a very limited budget, I am

ashamed to tell you, on the heritage side. It is very, very limited. We don't

have a lot of money. In the context of what we are trying to preserve and what

we are trying to do throughout the Province, it is a very small envelope. I know

this particular situation. I have reviewed it. It is being reviewed again at

your request and the request of the Mayor of Grand Falls-Windsor. Let me tell

you, we will just wait to see what comes back from archival people and the

people who are reviewing it.

MR. HUNTER: I don't think he is asking for you to

buy it. It is just that if someone can apply for a grant for some other

organization, to set up even a local organization, to set up and buy it and run

it.

MR. FUREY: I think his preference would be for us

to buy it though so that he could move.

MR. HUNTER: He probably would, but the other

solution is if someone else could apply for a grant to buy it out from him, that

might be a way out.

Minister, your department does allocate grants for

groups to attend different functions across the country, different interest

groups, musical groups, and things like that. Is that true?

MR. FUREY: We used to do it under the Cultural

Industries Agreement. That expired. We are negotiating a new agreement and there

will be a piece there in that to help groups move around a small piece. As I

said to Mr. French earlier, the only places we can really gather money now is

under the umbrella of the Arts Council, which is stand-alone, but as we move

towards the end of the year, if there are lapsed balances that we can take from

one head and push it out into a grant - like, for example, the group that I just

mentioned to you, Susan Knights group, we sent them away, the choir, and there

are other groups that we helped. Mr. Sweeney and Mr. Hedderson came to see me

about the Cantata out in Carbonear. We found, I think, $15,000 for them to

continue their work. There is not a set pot that I could take from, unless we

get the Cultural Industries Agreement back in place; but as we move towards the

end of the year sometimes we do shift money around to try to help groups that

are stuck.

MR. HUNTER: Did the money for the Bel Cantos

Singers choir group come from your department?

MR. FUREY: I think so, but I can't - Central

Newfoundland, you mean?

MR. HUNTER: Yes.

MR. FUREY: Yes, I am pretty sure; and the band in

Torbay, from my department as well.

MR. HUNTER: Minister, I think guides comes under

your department?

MR. FUREY: Who?

MR. HUNTER: Outfitter guides?

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MR. HUNTER: Do you have any plans in the near

future to somehow professionalize the trade?

MR. FUREY: Yes. In fact, we just had discussions

with the outfitting industry on that whole issue. Now licensing of guides, as

you know, comes under Wildlife but we try to manage it in terms of promoting

sports fishing and hunting and that kind of thing. I brought in the rules for

the guides for outsiders coming in, to try to create some kind of an industry on

that about ten years ago. Yes, you are right, we have to try to professionalize

it more and we are working with the outfitting industry to do that.

MR. HUNTER: So you are already doing that, working

towards that?

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MR. HUNTER: I see that there are new opportunities

for people to go in and get trained as guides.

MR. FUREY: Absolutely.

MR. HUNTER: These people are saying: What's the

point of going in to do the training if we are not going to be recognized as a

profession?

MR. FUREY: Exactly.

MR. HUNTER: If we move that way then it would

certainly be a good promotion for our outfitters -

MR. FUREY: I agree with you.

MR. HUNTER: - to use in their sale pitch.

That is the only thing that I have there, Minister.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to have my

two cents' worth.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Hunter.

Ms Jones, and then we will go to Mr. Andersen.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

A couple of things, Minister, but first of all I would

like to welcome Heather to the department. It is nice to see you join the

provincial government, Heather, in Culture and Heritage.

I guess a couple of things I want to highlight to you

today, Minister - and you are quite familiar with my district and the part of

Labrador in which I live, and have certainly been instrumental to your

department in terms of boosting the tourism industry in that area.

As you know, there are a number of concerns I would

have with regard to tourism in the future, especially when you look at right now

across the Province. We are probably one of the areas that is certainly in a

prime opportunity to capitalize further on the industry. The new ferry system

that was just put in place is certainly a tribute to the industry itself. With

the highway opening up over the next two to three years, discussions with regard

to national parks in Labrador, I guess my concern right now is that we do not

have a body as such that is coordinating the tourism industry of Labrador.

I know it falls within the department. Just to tell

you, as a local entity in Labrador we have put together a group now to look at a

Labrador brand in the tourism industry, and being able to promote it as such.

Because I do not think that us trying to do this on the coat tails of the Viking

Trail tourism initiative is going to work for us. I think we have a brand of our

own and we need to capitalize on that. I would certainly ask for your support

and that of your department in helping us move that along. I guess part and

parcel to that would be looking at something similar to Destination Labrador.

Destination Labrador was probably the best thing that ever happened to the

tourism industry in Labrador. Anyone who would have been involved in that back

in those days would have seen us move from a stage of having tourism as a

non-industry to where it is today. I think it is attributed to that organization

and the work that it did as part of your department.

The other thing I would like to suggest to you, with

the highway opening up, is looking at designating a provincial park somewhere

within that area. Maybe it is something your officials could take a look at in

consultation with groups in my district to see if there is a location there. I

know there is. There are a couple actually that you might want to consider. I

just make those two suggestions to you right now.

The other thing that I want to say is that it always

amazes me when I see the limited budget that this department has in which to do

the magnificent job that it does. I think that the celebrations with the Cabot,

the Soiree, and again this year with the Vikings has opened the eyes and ears of

people around the world as to where we are in Newfoundland and Labrador with

this industry. It always amazes me how you manage to do that with such a limited

budget.

The other thing I want to commend you for is your work

on the Marine Atlantic issue. I think you did a magnificent job there. As you

discussed with the Member for Conception Bay South earlier, this is an important

issue for our Province. It is the crest of the tourism industry right now. You

as minister, and your department, did the right and proper thing in launching

that forum with those consultations. I hope we are going to see some results

from it this year.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. That will be it.

CHAIR: Thank you, and I apologize for not giving

you my full attention.

MS JONES: I noticed that and I will let it go for

now. I certainly hope it does not happen again in the future.

CHAIR: Thank you kindly.

Wally, please.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Normally we have a process where we speak for ten

minutes, so I plan (inaudible) take my forty or forty-five minutes (inaudible).

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

MR. ANDERSEN: I have a couple of things starting

out. First of all, usually we sit down to a table that has salt and pepper, but

I am sure tonight there will be something else to tell the difference between

the words from the Member for Topsail and the person next door for Conception

Bay South, to hear their mixed emotions. I certainly know that was - you wonder

where parity is in this world.

Minister, I say to you -

WITNESS: You can come back to us anytime you want,

Wally.

MR. ANDERSEN: Minister, I say to you that I guess

I would say the word disgusted with the Budget, not in a way to offend your

department, but the work that your department does, and certainly when I look at

my riding on what it has to offer. Pretty soon we will be referred to as the

last frontier, where we will be the only riding without any roads, where we have

the fiords, the icebergs, the Torngat Mountains, the polar bears, the caribou,

and places like Hebron and Hopedale that are yet undeveloped. I know that your

sources in Labrador, in people, the number you have, if you could only triple

your staff in Labrador then you might be able to do some justice with the

tourism industry up our way.

I want to compliment you for the cooperation you have

shown. I know we have had some good talks on some things in my riding. In the

year 2000 we are going to celebrate the 250 th anniversary of when the

Moravians came to Labrador. That in itself should upon up the North Coast

similar to what Battle Harbour did for Southern Labrador.

Minister, I too want to compliment you and your staff

on the job you do with the limited number of people you have. Certainly, I know

the Opposition quite often calls for an all party committee. Minister I think it

is time that we had an all party committee travel to Ottawa to meet with the

feds like Sheila Copps and these people to show them what we have in

Newfoundland and Labrador. Certainly in my riding, where jobs are so difficult

to come by, yet we have so much to offer only if we had the opportunity to

provide that service to the rest of the country and the rest of the world. Food

for thought. No doubt I will be back in your office in the next short while to

go over some things from my riding.

Again, minister, I say to you with all sincerity that

being a bureaucrat and working in Labrador for twenty years I admire you and

your staff for the limited number of bodies you have that do so much for this

Province that creates so much employment. Probably your department, more than

any other, shows our Province, regardless of race, color, creed or culture, to

the rest of the world. I compliment you and your staff and I look forward to

working with you in the days ahead.

That is my forty-five minutes.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Andersen.

Are there any other questions from any other members?

Judging by the shuffling of the papers I surmise that there be none. That being

the case I would ask for a motion to approve subheads 1.1.01 to subheads 7.1.02.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 7.1.02 carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Minister.

That concludes our deliberations for the evening. I

understand we are going to move to another venue for some other activities.

Before I go, just for the purpose of the members, we seem to have agreed - and

this is why I was preoccupied, Ms Jones - that the next meeting we will try to

do on Thursday morning at 8:30. We will do the Estimates for the Department of

Mines and Energy. I have to confirm that with the minister, but I am sure he

will make time available before he has to go off to Cabinet at 10:00 a.m. or

10:30 a.m., as the case might be.

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: That could very well be.

Thank you very much. Mr. Minister, are there any

concluding remarks?

MR. FUREY: Just a couple of concluding remarks.

Ray twigged my mind to it. We have a big issue that I should raise with you here

and just point it out, dealing with the rivers in Labrador. We are starting to

get pressure now for new lodges and new sports fishing licenses. There is

increased pressure on certain areas of certain rivers like the Eagle River at

the gorge for example, where there are bona fide outfitters, and yet people who

have access to helicopters can just fly people in by the hundreds. It is really

unfair. We have to try to figure out an answer to a very vexing problem so that

there is balance for these investors on these rivers. It is an issue we need to

talk to the Labrador members about in particular.

MS JONES: I don't know if you know, but we have

asked Government Services and Lands to put a freeze on all demands in and around

the rivers right now.

MR. FUREY: Yes.

MS JONES: Simply because there were so many

applications (inaudible). (Inaudible) sit down and start looking at some of

(inaudible). So my understanding from Minister McLean is that the freeze will be

a temporary measure or (inaudible) and (inaudible). (Inaudible) guidelines on

that.

MR. FUREY: We have put an interdepartmental

committee of deputies together - Intergovernmental Affairs, Government Services

and Lands, Tourism, et cetera - to give us a quick review of this too, because

there are some problems emerging and they are emerging fast. That is one issue I

wanted to just raise with the Committee. The other one, which Mr. French raised

with me in the House today, is the accommodation modules for the Canada Games.

Do you know if they are still available?

WITNESS: They were sold to a company outside Deer

Lake. I don't know what he has done with them but I would imagine they are in

pretty hard shape at this point. That is where they went after.

MR. FUREY: Do you know where they are, Mr.

Chairman?

CHAIR: I don't recall the name of the company but

they are stored on the Viking Trail.

MR. FUREY: EDM there?

CHAIR: In the EDM yard. I think -

MR. FUREY: Are they functional and usable?

CHAIR: They probably are but not to a very high

level. Keep in mind that they were transported once to Bull Arm, assembled,

brought back to Corner Brook, assembled, and taken apart again. They have been

taken apart twice. They might be in rough shape.

MR. FUREY: Yes, but we can follow up for you on

that and see where they are and what they are about and stuff.

MR. FRENCH: There are four trailers that I am

looking for. I hope one will be used for the press, one will be used -

MR. FUREY: Do you want to just tell people what

that is about, Bob?

MR. FRENCH: Yes. This summer Softball Newfoundland

and Labrador are hosting the Canadian Junior Mens, and at this particular

tournament we need four trailers. Not for anybody to sleep in. We need four

trailers: one to be used by the medical people, one to be used by the people who

handle the money at these tournaments, and it slips my mind now the other two

things. We have to have four trailers on site which can be used. Another one is

to be used by the press. We have to make places available for them. It is not

for somebody to sleep in. It is just for kind of an office type thing.

MR. FUREY: I wonder could you rent four of them on

the East Coast here for that period of time? Because bringing them from the West

Coast - I saw those, Bob, driving up through my district. They are in rough

shape.

WITNESS: Yes, you will get a grant for that.

MR. FRENCH: The reason I ask, minister, is if we

could come up with some money to rent four of them I would be very much

appreciative.

MR. FUREY: We will talk.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, sir.

MR. FUREY: Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you all.

The Committee adjourned.