Manitoba Hansard — 22 May 2024 (Sitting 60, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-60

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 60 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 22, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon.

Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Tuxedo

2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 22, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline, Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to work ing in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 217–The Men's Mental Health Awareness Week Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) MLA Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): I move, seconded by the member for Agassiz (Ms. Byram), that Bill 217, The Men's Mental Health Awareness Week Act, 'commeration' of days, weeks and months act amended;

Loi sur la Semaine de sensibilisation à la santé mentale des hommes, be read for the –now read for the first time. Motion presented. MLA Lagassé: Tattooed to my daughter's arm in my handwriting is, it's okay not to be okay. This statement was originally part of my first speech to this House when I shared my mental health struggles. Since that day, I've had lots of people approach me with their stories. Each of these stories has become a part of why I wanted to bring this bill forward. I look forward to sharing some of those s tories I have heard with this House to highlight the import- ance of this bill.

I would like to thank Doug Mackie from Men Shed for being here and thank him for the work he does for men's mental health. With these brief words, I would end this with the full quote that I put on the record: It's okay not to be okay; what's not okay is to go through it alone. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: Committee reports? Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Sixth Report Mr.

Tyler Blashko (Chairperson): I wish to present–Honourable Speaker, I wish to present the sixth report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Deputy Clerk (Mr. Tim Abbott): Your Standing Committee on Social– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. The Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Sixth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on May 21, 2024 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building.

Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 208) – The Two-Spirit and Transgender Day of Visibility Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) /

Loi sur la Journée de visibilité bispirituelle et transgenre (modification de la

Loi sur les journées, les semaines et les mois commémoratifs)

2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 • Bill (No. 212) – The Asian Heritage Month Act (Commemoration of Days , Weeks and Months Act Amended) /

Loi sur le mois du patrimoine Asiatique (modification de la

Loi sur les journées, les semaines et les mois commémoratifs) Committee Membership • Mr. BLASHKO • Mrs. COOK • MLA DELA CRUZ (Vice-Chairperson) • MLA LAGASSÉ • MLA MOROZ • Mr. OXENHAM • Your Committee elected Mr. BLASHKO as the Chairperson. Substitutions received during committee proceedings: • MLA CHEN for Mr. OXENHAM • Mr. OXENHAM for MLA CHEN Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record: • MLA BEREZA • Hon. Min. FONTAINE Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following 15 presentations on Bill (No. 208) – The Two-Spirit and Transgender Day of Visibility Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Mont hs Act Amended) /

Loi sur la Journée de visibilité bispirituelle et transgenre (modification de la

Loi sur les journées, les semaines et les mois commémoratifs): Adam Donaghy, Private citizen Mikayla Hunter, Private citizen Luca Gheorghica, Private citizen Alex Rana, Manitoba 2SLGBTQIA+ Student Action Coalition Jackson Unger, Private citizen Reece Malone, Private citizen Charlotte Nolin, 2Spirit Manitoba Inc.

Kai Solomon, Private citizen Kristie Schertzer, Private citizen Jude Yallowega, Private citizen Dieth de Leon, Bahaghari Pride Manitoba Kristine Barr, Canadian Union of Public Employees Caleb Clay, Private citizen Davey Cole, Sunshine House Ashley Gawne, Klinic Community Health Written Submissions Your Committee received the following four written submissions on Bill (No. 208) – The Two-Spirit and Transgender Day of Visibility Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) /

Loi sur la Journée de visibilité bispirituelle et transgenre (modification de la

Loi sur les journées, les semaines et les mois commémoratifs): Aimee Rice, Private citizen Chris Allinotte, Private citizen Sara Tarrant, Private citizen Abiola Agbayewa, Private citizen Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 208) – The Two-Spirit and Transgender Day of Visibility Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) /

Loi sur la Journée de visibilité bispirituelle et transgenre (modification de la

Loi sur les journées, les semaines et les mois commémoratifs) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 212) – The Asian Heritage Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) /

Loi sur le mois du patrimoine Asiatique (modification de la

Loi sur les journées, les semaines et les mois commémoratifs) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Blashko: I move, seconded by the honour able member for Radisson (MLA Dela Cruz), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. The Speaker: The motion is accordingly passed. Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Emma Cloney Hon. Lisa Naylor (Minister o f Transportation and Infrastructure): I rise in the House today to honour a Wolseley constituent, Emma Cloney.

Emma serves as the vice-president of Lipedema Canada and president of Lipedema Manitoba. Emma is a nurse, a musician and someone who lives with lipedema. She has been instrumental in bringing together leaders from almost every province and territory to collaborate on resources and advocate

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2007 to remove barriers to care. Lipedema Canada was incorporated as a non-profit in January of this year and launched their website in April. Lipedema is a connective tissue disorder charac- terized by a type of fat tissue that builds up over time. Lipedema causes swelling and easy bruising. Found most often in the arms and legs, the tissue is painful and can feel like hard lumps beneath the skin. It's a progressive disease, and lipedema can lead to mobility challenges, extreme fatigue and mental distress.

It can affect one's ability to work, relation - ships and quality of life. Lipedema almost exclusively affects p eople assigned female at birth and may affect up to 11 per cent of women worldwide. While the cause of lipedema remains unknown, genetics are believed to play a role and the condition is not affected by dietary intake or activity level. People with this disease frequently experience body shaming and judgment, even from medical professionals who don't understand the condition. June is Lipedema Awareness Month, an excellent time for members of this Legislature to learn more about the condition.

Please visi t the newly launched Lipedema Canada website and join me today in recognizing Emma Cloney for her efforts and all the other members of Lipedema Manitoba who are in the gallery with us today. The Speaker: The honourable member for Morden - Winkler–[interjection] Oh, sorry. The honourable Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure. MLA Naylor: Honourable Speaker, I ask for leave that the names of my guests be included in Hansard.

The Speaker: Is there leave? [Agreed] Emma Cloney, president; Angel Anderson, vice- president; Amanda Young, secretary ; Sandy Lopes Williams, treasurer; Kelly Fehr, director; Emma Worley, director Acknowledging Morden-Winkler Fire Departments Mrs. Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): Today I would like to take a moment to express my heartfelt gratitude to the heroes of Morden, Winkler fire departments. They were not able to attend in person but are watching online. Comprised mostly of volunteers, these dedicated individuals put their lives on the line to protect our communities.

In m oments of crisis and danger, it is the selfless and–selflessness and bravery of these first responders that truly shine. * (13:40) Honourable Speaker, I had the honour of growing up in a home with my dad being a volunteer fire - fighter. My dad, John Schellenberg, was dedicated and committed to serving and keeping others safe; he was my hero. Volunteer firefighters are the unsung heroes of our society. They juggle their responsibilities at work, their commitments and their–to their families, and still find the time to undergo rigorous training and courses to enhance their skills and knowledge.

These individuals are driven by a profound sense of duty and a desire to serve their communities, often going above and beyond the call of duty to ensure the safety and well-being of others. The Morden fire department, led by Fire Chief Andy Thiessen and supported by 38 volunteers. These men and women have a wealth of experience with some fighter fires–firefighters serving for over 30 years. Each volunteer has undergone training and have received at least a level 1 certificate. This dedicated team ensures the safety and protection of the community with their skills and commitment to serve.

The Winkler Fire Department, under the –under Chief Paetzold's leadership, o perates with 37 vol - unteers, three part -time positions. With an average response time of four minutes and four seconds within the city of Winkler, the department exhibits efficiency and dedication to its citizens of Winkler. Ten volun- teers have dedicated over 30 years of service, showing a commitment to the community and to serve–to their safety. I'd like to thank all the firefighters in my constituency of Morden-Winkler and to all the dedi - cated firefighters in the province of Manitoba.

Your commitment a nd experience are invaluable, and I thank you for your service. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon ourable member for Riel – [interjection] Oh. The honourable member for Morden-Winkler. Mrs. Hiebert: I'd like to ask that the names of the firefighters be entered into Hansard.

2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 The Speaker: Is there leave to enter the names in Hansard? [Agreed] Alan Derksen, Abe Dueck, Lorne Enns, Ernie Froese, Chris Kalansky, John Klassen, Terry Nelson, Peter Neufeld, Peter Peters, Marvin Plett, Garry Reimer, Tim Reimer, Paul Warkentine, Ken Wieler, Tina Wolfe Awasisak Meskanow Greenway MLA Mike Moyes (Riel): I rise today in honour of Awasisak Meskanow Greenway, a phenomenal organization working to maintain and promote the biodiversity and health of the Awasisak Meskanow trail.

Awasisak Meskanow Greenway has spent 23 years working to establish a nature corridor, rich in plants native to Manitoba along the four -and-a-half-kilo- metre long trail that runs from the Red to the Seine River. The group has undertaken several pr ojects, including a campaign to plant over 120 trees and the creation of an urban food forest, all while actively working to promote awareness and appreciation of the area's natural and historical legacy. Having served on the board of directors for the organization, I can attest to the community -minded nature of the members involved.

Their dedication to both human and wildlife communities is reflected in everything they do. Recently, I was able to attend the Awasisak Meskanow Greenway annual cleanup. It was wonder- ful to see so many people from Riel and beyond come together to care for our urban ecosystem. And while the greenway trail has always been a testament to environmental action, it now stands as a testament to reconciliation as well. I am proud t o say that both the trail and street, formerly known as Bishop Grandin, has been renamed.

Now, our much- beloved nature corridor is known as Awasisak Meskanow, with the corres - ponding street being named Abinojii Mikanah. This is an important step in honouring the legacies of Indigenous peoples across Manitoba and in promoting a prosperous future for all community members. I am honoured to be part of a community that cares for one another and for the ecological well-being of our province, a community that brings everyone together as one Manitoba. Honourable Speaker, I'd ask that everyone join me in thanking the team at Awasisak Meskanow Greenway for their tremendous work. Marcus and Paige Dueck Mr.

Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Thank you, Honourable Speaker, for the opportunity to recognize an outstanding La Vérendrye farm family. Marcus and Paige Dueck of Four Oak Farms near Kleefeld are Manitoba's newest Outstanding Young Farmers. The eastern Manitoba couple was named the 2024 recipients of the award this past March. Manitoba's Outstanding Young Farmers program recognizes excellent operators between the age of 18 and 39. Provincial winners then vie for a chance to be named Canada's Outstanding Young Farmers. Four Oak Farms is an 800-acre dairy, mixed grain and hay operation.

The dairy, which milks 50 cows using the only tie-stall robot in western Canada. They are also winners of multiple milk -quality awards and production farm awards. This operation primarily grows and mills its own feed on the farm. A long with their dairy operation, cash crops include corn and soybeans, as well as forage and grass production for the horse hay market. The couple have been stand-out farmers for many years and aren't new to the nomination for outstanding young farmer. The nomination process is intense, and the last time they were nominated was in 2016 when very new in running their farming operation.

This year, with eight more seasons under their belts, they entered the competition as seasoned young farmers, which Paige n oted allowed them to be much more comfortable. The Duecks' farming success could not be pos - sible without their team- effort approach, each out – understanding the value of their talents while working together for the common goal. With the national award be ing presented in November, I would like to wish the Duecks the best of luck representing Manitoba farmers at the national stage.

Please help me congratulate Marcus and Paige, who we have with us in the gallery today, for their well-deserved recognition. Brielle Dueck, Sutton Dueck.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2009 Keira's Law MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I rise this afternoon to speak to the importance of putting Manitobans first, because, sadly, this is something our new government already needs to be reminded of. Bill 209, The Provincial Court Amendment Act, otherwise known as Keira's law, is being halted in its tracks because this government's partisan politics. This bill is in tribute to Keira Kagan. Months prior to Keira's tragic murder, her mother, Jennifer, sought an emer gency motion to suspend her ex- husband's access to their four-year-old daughter.

There were fifty-three court orders in three years describing Keira's father as abusive, erratic and having escalating behaviour. However, the judge found the evidence compel ling, but not urgent, and adjourned the motion. Bill 209 expands judicial education to include topics of intimate partner violence and coercive control. This bill, while guests were in the gallery, passed second reading unanimously, but this NDP govern- ment is now refusing to allow it to go to committee.

Honourable Speaker, I would like to remind the government that all political stripes, Liberal, NDP and PC, have supported this legis lation federally and provincially. And it should be noted, in Ontario, the PC govern- ment supported an NDP opposition bill to declare intimate partner violence an epidemic in the province. Honourable Speaker, this government's behaviour is anti-democratic.

We have presenters from all over Manitoba signed up to speak at committee: friends and family of Keira's; health -care providers; representatives from shelters, resource centers, community groups; and individuals who have experienced first -hand how desperately this legislation is needed, and this govern- ment won't even allow for them to come and speak at committee. Honourable Speaker, I am calling upon this provincial government to do the right thing before the House rises for the summer. * * * Mr. Narth: I'd ask leave to have the Duecks' chil - dren's names added to Hansard.

The Speaker: Is there leave? [Agreed] Leave has been granted. So a couple of things before we get to oral questions. One is just a reminder to all members that just during your members' statement, if you just add at the end, before your time is up, please add the names of my guests to Hansard, then you don't have to ask for leave. It makes my life so much easier. Introduction of Guests The Speaker: At this time, I'd also like to intro duce guests in the gallery before we move, just in case they have to leave. We have with us Taylor Allen, who is the guest of the honourable member for Agassiz (Ms. Byram).

I would also like to draw attention of all honour - able members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Sathya and Bindhya Amilla [phonetic], who are guests of the honourable member for Morden- Winkler (Mrs. Hiebert), and Helen Hildebrand, who is the mother of the honour able member for Morden - Winkler. On behalf of all honour able members, we welcome you here today. Further, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Gregory Wowchuk of Toronto, Gloria Dzikowski of Midland, Ontario.

Gregory is the president of the Professional Engineers Ontario and is in Winnipeg for the annual meeting of Engineers Canada. And they are the guests of the honour able member for Swan River (Mr. Wowchuk). On behalf of all honour able members, we welcome you here today. * * * The Speaker: And one very important thing to carry out is, as is our tradition when pages are coming to the end of their term, I'm going to introduce you to Liz Deacosta. Liz has been a great–Liz had a great year as page. Although she wishes her time at the Legislative Assembly was longer, she is grateful for the opportun- ity.

Liz will be attending the Univer sity of Manitoba for political science, to complete a four-year bachelor's program with plans of getting into law school. Joining us in the gallery is her mother and father, Liza and Arthur.

2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 On behalf of all of us in the Assembly, I want to wish you the very best in the future and thank you for your amazing service to us over the last year. You really are a part of an im portant team that can allow us to do our work in the Chamber, so t hank you and the very best to you. ORAL QUESTIONS Political Parties Election Rebate Government Priorities Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Welcome to all the guests in the gallery, and thanks to Liz, and all the best in your summer and everything else that's along your poli -sci and lawyer path.

This NDP government is failing at the basics. One of the basic ex pectations of Manitobans is that their provincial gov ernment maintain their roads and highways. And this NDP gov ernment, of course, is getting an F on that. Honourable Speaker, 18th Street in Brandon was just named as the worst road for 2024 in CAA's most recent survey, yet the Premier and the Infrastructure Minister thinks, hey, it's all good. In Budget 2024, t he Premier's doubling his taxpayer-funded political subsidy but cutting $164 million from the Infrastructure budget.

Why is the Premier prioritizing his taxpayer - funded political subsidy over proper maintenance of Manitobans' roads and highways? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I want to take this moment to congratulate Liz on your achievements to date and to say to you and your parents, I hope you had an awesome learning experience here. Please take the good things out of the Chamber; leave the heckling behind. You won't get away with that anywhere else. All the best in what's next. When it comes to the point raised by the member opposite, 18th Street was at the top of this list in 2022- 2023 under their gov ernment.

The difference this time, we're going to fix it; we put the money in the budget to do so. And I'm glad that the member opposite took the provincial roadmaps that I tabled to familiarize himself with a location outside of the Perimeter. I'll table some further documents, these ones from S&P Global today, which gave Manitoba good reviews on Budget 2024. Spe cifically, this important credit rating agency said, and I quote: We believe the new government is committed to– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable Leader of the O fficial Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: Regarding 18th Street in Brandon, on April 4th, 2024, the Minister of Infra structure said, and I quote: "All the potholes had been filled on that stretch of our highway going through Brandon." E nd quote. But Manitobans surveyed, everyone driving on the road and repair shops throughout the province, they know the truth, Honour able Speaker. Not only are Manitoba roads and highways worse than ever, there's less money committed to repairing them. Meanwhile, the Premier is doubling his taxpayer - funded political subsidy. The only question I have to the Premier is: Why are you doing that? Mr.

Kinew: Well, you know, trades people, con- struction workers, so many Manitobans were out of work when the PC s were in power. Because they – what they liked to do was to cut, cut, cut. What we like to do on this side is to build, build, build. And that's why in this year's budget, we've got the funds to fix 18th Street. We're putting people to work right now who are at work in Brandon. We're putting people to work building health- care facilities. We're putting people to work, putting people to work building schools across the province. But you know what the most im portant news of the day is?

It's that S&P Globa l has weighed in on Budget 2024. And of course, they know that what's coming from the member opposite is nothing but noise. And I quote, S&P Global says, we believe the new government is committed to fiscal sus tainability in the long term. End quote. We're getting things done, we're making life more affordable and the rating agencies agree. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, I ap preciate the Premier handing out the maps the other day so that he could familiarize himself with anything outside of the city of Winnipeg. So let me refresh his memory: 18th Street in Brandon; Leila Avenue, Winnipeg; Provincial Road 307 in the Whiteshell Provincial Park; Kenaston Boulevard; Provincial Highway 26 in St. François Xavier;

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2011 Empress Street; Pandora Avenue; Saskatchewan Avenue; Grant Avenue; and Munroe Avenue; Inkster Boulevard in Winnipeg; and Richmond Avenue in Brandon. CAA also found in that –their survey that 88 per cent of people surveyed just want their roads and highways repaired. But there's less money. We've seen it in the budget. There's less money on infrastructure this year. The Premier is doubling his taxpayer -funded subsidy to his own political party.

And again, he's not going to answer this question, Manitobans, but the question is: Why is he doing that, sir, when we've got all these roads to repair? Mr. Kinew: Well, Manitobans know that wait times skyrocketed under the PCs. Wait times in emergency rooms, wait times in health care, wait times for health cards kept going up and up and up. But now we see that even the wait times for a comeback has ballooned to 10 days under the member opposite. So nothing new from the PC government.

What we do ha ve that's new in the province of Manitoba, in addition to invest ments in roads and improving services, is from S&P Global, and I quote, our expect ation in the next two years: healthy eco - nomic growth and a renewed focus on fiscal sus tain- ability will result in modest operating surpluses and steadily falling after-capital deficits. End quote. The question for the member opposite is: If our team has a renewed focus on fiscal discipline, what was happening during their time in office? The Speaker: Order, please. Stop the clock for a minute, please.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: I just have to intro duce some kids in the gallery that are going to be leaving before we're done with oral questions. So we have, seated in the public gallery from Anola S chool, 25 grade 4 and 5 students under the direction of Karen Burr, and they are guests of the honourable member for Dawson Trail (MLA Lagassé). Agency Nursing–Validation Process Impact on Health-Care Services Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Agency nurs e spending continues to rise under the NDP.

Yet, despite campaigning on drawing nurses to the public system, the NDP has provided no incentives to entice nurses to do so. We know mandatory nurse overtime hours are high, a problem pointed out by HSC nurses who declined ratification just this week.

Last week, the Premier haphazardly announced his in tentions to validate nursing agencies, an an- nouncement that came with no details on what that program would actually look like and no transparency on how t hese delays might impact health care for Manitobans. * (14:00) Can the Premier please be trans parent with Manitobans about how this process may impact their health-care services? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): When you asked nurses about what does it take to fix health care in Manitoba, they'll tell you that they need better nurse- to-patient ratios so that they can spend more time with each patient.

They will ask for an end to mandatory overtime, which skyrocketed under the PCs. And they will tell you that they want work- life balance. They want to be able to spend time with their families, while also working in a rewarding setting. All of these issues became crisis points under the PC time in office.

With the tentative agree ment that we arrived at with the Manitoba Nurses Union, we've put a financial incentive in place to draw nurses back from the agencies, which will give us the health human resource to be able to chart a course toward the end of mandatory overtime, to be able to improve nurse -to- patient ratios. And guess what? I look forward to provi ding great detail on this all afternoon in the Com mittee of Supply. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a supplementary question. Nurse Recruitment and Retention Incentives to Work in Public System Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): As we saw this week, MNU nurses were split down the middle on ratification. A WRHA nurse told the media that despite promise of change from the NDP, she, quote, didn't think that's what's going to happen from this contract. End quote.

2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 Nurses still cite pay gaps, rotations, violence in the workplace, mandatory overtime, burnout and forcing full-time hours as key issues. Other provinces have put forward real incentives to bring nurses into their public systems: 30K to work in rural BC, 50K for Saskatchewan, up to 15K in Alberta, and some provinces even advertise flexible hours. Why is the NDP doing nothing to incentivize nurses into our public health- care system in Manitoba? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): We've got all of those incentives and more in the tentative agreement .

The thing that we don't have is the PC obsession with cutting health care. You see, under health care when it was run by Heather Stefanson, when it was run by the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), we all know what happened. Emergency rooms were closed and nurses lost their jobs. They were forced to run into the basement of the Health Sciences Centre and jostle against one another to sign up for a new position against competition from their former workers. What we have in the tentative agreement today, however, is a $12,000 financial incentive for nurses to take up full -time hours.

We've added resources to provincial float pools here in Manitoba, so that a nurse could be onboarded after leaving a private agency to join the public system within 48 hours. We have a whole suite of incentives to ensure that the con ditions to ending mandatory overtime and improving nurse-to-patient ratios will be added to the system. I look– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Robin, on a final sup- plementary question. Agency Nurses–Work Requirements Incentives to Work in Public System Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): I'm going to table a page from the contract document provided to MNU members. It mentions some thing the Premier neglected to mention in his response. It clearly states that agency nurses are now prohibited from working in their own em ployment organization. For example, a nurse who works shifts for an agency and als o keeps a casual position at St. Boniface to better control her own hours now can't work in the WRHA at all. She'll have the choice of cutting her hours, dropping the flexibility of an agency or being forced to wait for a full- time position to come up.

T his, combined with the loose thread of validation without any timelines, sounds more like the NDP are forcing nurses into the public system rather than listening to their concerns and drawing them back in. My question is simple: Why? The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): We've got a com - pelling incentive for nurses to join the provincial float pool and to leave the private agencies behind. We're not doing this with mandates, like the PCs did. We know that they loved mandates , and they love to mandate Manitobans of all walks of life.

Instead, what we're focused on is creating an incentive structure that makes the public health -care system a better place to work. The days of emergency- room closures are over. We're reopening em ergency rooms. The days of attacking physicians and nurses is over. We're liberating them and encouraging them to speak freely. And the days as a mandatory overtime and nurse- to-patient ratios deteriorating are over, because you have a Health Minister tha t is listening to the front lines and putting together a path to fixing health care in Manitoba. Better health care is on the way.

We look forward to working with nurses to get it done. Manitoba Hydro Plan to Address Capacity Needs Implementation Costs and Energy Forecast Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Yesterday I asked this Minister of Finance (Mr. Sala) if he could tell Manitobans what the plan is for creating more energy in this province, and his reply is, we're developing the plan. Well, under the previous PC gov ernment, there was a plan. And the now -current CEO calls that plan the north star of a guiding document, the first of its kind in Manitoba.

At committee, this minister and the current CEO and board chair all committed to getting the House the cost associated with the creation of these strategies, along with a forecast of how much energy Manitobans are going to use in the next five years. They com - mitted to getting that within three weeks. It's now been 14 weeks and they haven't provided anything.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2013 So the question is simple: What is the minister hiding from Manitobans? Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): Honourable Speaker, we were in government for two months –two months –and we brought in $500 million of inve stment in Manitoba Hydro, partnering with the federal government. That's our record. To the member's question, we are developing a plan to ensure that we have the energy we need going forward.

We will work to ensure that that energy is reliable and aff ordable for Manitobans, some thing that for years Manitobans had to deal with the opposite: a government that was working to make life more expensive. We're going to make life more affordable. We're going to create the energy we need, and we're going to build a better Manitoba. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a supplementary question. Manitoba Hydro Future Energy Needs Request for Plan to Address Capacity Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): For those keeping track at home, that is now question 61 this minister has not answered from me.

However, I will answer a question the minister asked me yesterday. The minister asked me, do you know how many megawatts that was developed in the seven and a half years previous? The answer is simple, and I will answer it for him: 695 megawatts of capacity was previously created under the PC govern- ment. To put that into perspective, that's enough light– that's enough power to light up Brandon. That is how you answer a question. Maybe the minister can try answering a question for once. The question is simple: Will the minister tell Manitobans what his plan is for creating energy in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): The plan's forthcoming, Honour- able Speaker. We look forward to revealing that to Manitobans in due time. But what I do know is that that plan–what it's not going to contain. It's not going to contain a focus on what the previous government did, which was to find new and creative, novel ways of raising hydro rates on Manitobans. Again. What did they do? They used a BITSA bill to include a 2.9 per cent hydro rate increase on Manitobans in the middle of a pandemic.

That was the first time in our province's history that a government had legislated a hydro rate increase. That's their focus. What's our focus? Building more affordable, reliable energy. That's what Manitobans can expect from our government. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a final supplementary question. Manitoba Hydro Rates Increase Inquiry Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): I'm going to try a really simple question for the minister here, and I'm going to use his own quote so it's even simpler for him. We are committed to delivering on a hydro rate freeze, this minister said.

I'm also going to table a press release from this Premier (Mr. Kinew), where he says, we are also going to freeze hydro rates. Well, it's been seven months and there is no hydro rate freeze in the province of Manitoba. Another broken promise by this NDP. Not only did they not freeze it, they are going to increase your hydro by 4 per cent, and they snuck it through in the BITSA bill.

Since the minister has a hard time answering questions, this is a real simple one: Will the minister simply admit today to Manitobans that he has broken his promise and he's going to increase hydro rates in the province of Manitoba, yes or no? It's that simple. Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): Honourable Speaker, the member opposite wants to talk about what we're doing to improve affordability. Let me enlighten him a little bit. Some of the lowest fuel prices in the country – [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Order. The member for Fort Whyte will come to order.

MLA Sala: Let's do it again: lowest fuel prices in the country. Lowest inflation in the country. Lowest food prices in the country. * (14:10) That's the work our gov ernment is doing. We're making life more affordable each and every single day, and that's what Manito bans can expect when it comes to our energy plan. We're going to make sure that we develop more energy because we know we need it, but we're going to do that in a way that ensures

2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 it's reliable, it's affordable and Manitoba Hydro stays public. Apprenticeship Training Request to Restore 2:1 Ratios Mrs. Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): Honour- able Speaker, I have heard from my con stituents that this government's actions are directly impacting their businesses. Throughout Manitoba we have young people training to pursue careers in the trades. We made them a promise. We asked them to consider careers in the trades, and now, without notice, the NDP have cut the ratio and kicked out half the apprentices out of the program.

This minister has a chance to do the right thing and keep these young people in the workforce. Will they restore the two-to-one ratio as industry is asking for today? Hon. Jamie Moses (Minister of Economic Development, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources): Honourable Speaker, I ap preciate the question from the members opposite, and what we're focused on is ensuring that we have high -quality training for apprentices in Manitoba. And what we're doing to make sure that that's a reality is investing in more training seats.

An ad di- tional $1.5 million is being spent on apprentice training seats this year, which means more Manitobans have opportunities to get into the skilled trades. We're excited about the future of Manitoba, and we know that those apprentices are going to be part of building that future. The Speaker: The honourable member for Morden- Winkler, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Hiebert: Honourable Speaker, this isn't about safety; it's about control. These supervisors are pro - fessionals. They live a life of culture, of safety on the job site every day and they pass on to–this to their apprentices.

Two -to-one ratios allow multiple young Manitobans opportunities and help us to offset employee losses to retirements in a safe way. This minister needs to trust the professionals and let them do their jobs. They–will they bring this back, the two- to-one ratio, today? Mr. Moses: Hon ourable Speaker, as we know, the NDP build, build, build. And we do so in a way that trains Manitobans up to get those jobs. And in that training we make sure they have high-quality training, that they have safe training and safe places to work. We will stand up for workers each and every day.

Our investment of additional $1.5 million into appren- tice training 'sheats' mean that more Manitobans can work in the skilled trades right here in Manitoba to build a better future. The Speaker: The honourable member for Morden- Winkler, on a final supplementary question. Mrs. Hiebert: Honourable Speaker, businesses in my community are worried. They want to work with Manitobans to train them as apprentices, but this gov- ernment has cut, cut, cut the potential apprentice programs back–spaces in half. This is denying young Manitobans the opportun- ity to pursue meaningful and productive careers.

It is denying Manitobans the training they need to provide for themselves and their families. Will this minister reverse this decision today? Mr. Moses: Honourable Speaker, we know that investing in training and education for young people in Manitoba is how we build a stronger economy, how we build for our future. That's exactly what our gov- ernment has done. An additional $1.5 million into our apprenticeship programs means that more Manitobans have high-quality training and more safe training. That's how we build a Manitoba that works for all of us for today and well into the future.

Green Team Program Funding Manitoba Agriculture Museum Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): Honourable Speaker, cuts to Green Team funding have had negative impacts across the entire province. In my own constit- uency I've had many organi zations and non- profits reach out expressing frustration and disappointment in either the decrease or a cut to their funding. These cuts include local mun icipalities, golf courses, summer day camps and daycares. Honourable Speaker, the Manitoba Agri culture Museum received zero dollars in Green Team funding this year.

Will the minister commit today to restoring funding for the organi zations in my con stituency today? Hon. Ian Bushie (Minister of Municipal and Northern Relations): We are a listening government. We meet, we listen and we act. So we met with the Camping Association. We met with folks affected by

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2015 the Green Team. So we're here to anno unce now a further $300,000 to Green Team program and to support youth em ployment. Im portant Green Team initiatives–[interjection] There you go. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Important Green Team initiative, the im portant programs. We're listening, and we're acting on behalf of Manitobans across all this great province. The Speaker: The honourable member for Agassiz, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Byram: Not only did Manitoba Ag Museum receive zero dollars, but many others, like Fort Dauphin Museum, received zero dollars. The Manitoba Agri culture Museum is a non- profit charitable organi zation located in Austin, Manitoba. They offer school program ming, popular public events, tours and preserve many historical artifacts in their collection that honours the rich agri- culture history of our province. Can the minister assure that Manitoba Agriculture Museum will receive their Green Team funding this year, and can he announce that today? Mr. Bushie: Again: meeting, listening, acting.

Hon- ourable Speaker, $300,000 more invested in the Green Team program and in youth employment all over. And then spe cifically to Agassiz, Inter -Varsity Christian Fellowship of Canada, Austin, town of Carberry, municipality of Westlake- Gladstone, Heartland Rec- reation Com mission, Valley View Bible Camp, ArtsForward, Beautiful Plains Recreation Com mis- sion, Tiger Hills recreations–all in the constituency of Agassiz. We're committed to supporting members all over this great province. The Speaker: The honourable member for Agassiz, on a final supplementary question. Ms.

Byram: Honourable Speaker, I've high lighted only a couple organi zations, but many more were impacted by the cuts made by this NDP gov ernment. These cuts have forced community-based non-profits to scramble and look for volunteers, share resources and for some, perhaps, shut down. Can the minister opposite assure me that Manitoba Agri culture Museum will receive their Green Team funding today? Mr. Bushie: Honourable Speaker, when they talk about cuts –the members opposite –$800,000 for Manitoba Camping Association cut by that previous government.

And then they have the audacity to stand up here and talk about support for Manitobans in Green Team projects. We met with the Camp ing Association. So again: we meet, we listen, we act. Honourable Speaker, $300,000 more invested in Manitoba Green Teams so that we can have camps open, we can have baseball played, we can have op - portunities all over the great province with support from our gov ernment. We work in part nership with Manitobans, not divide.

Transportation of Agricultural Products Request for Labour Action Exemption MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): Last year, agriculture and the wider Manitoba economy was threatened by work stoppages at BC ports. This strike had an 'enormist' impact on Manitoba agri culture producers. Honourable Speaker, t oday, railways are facing the threat of labour action which will keep grain in silos and cash out of farmers' pockets. Bulk grain handling at ports is currently exempt from labour action under the Canadian Labour Code.

Agri culture groups across Manitoba and Canada are calling for similar exemptions for an –agriculture products at all stages. The Minister of Agri culture must join producers in asking the federal minister of Labour for an exemption to Labour Code. Will he do it, yes or no? Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture): Well, thank you so much, Honourable Speaker, for the member opposite asking a question about agriculture. It's been a few weeks.

And it's my great op portunity to get up and first and more most, let's show apprecia- tion to the agriculture producers out there today trying to do–[interjection] There we go. We talk about the importance of what the agri culture producers do and what the industry does for the province of Manitoba.

We talk about 9 per cent, 10 per cent of our GDP. * (14:20) I want to personally thank–as we see from our side of the House, nobody clapped from tha t side of the House, but I want to show appreciation to the agri- culture producers of what they provide to our province and what the industry– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 The honourable member for Portage la Prairie, on a supplementary question. MLA Bereza: And I guess that was a no. Agriculture products and crop inputs are transported 12 months a year. There is no slow season. This is why we need a robust and reliable transportation network. The risk to producers, our reputation and econ- omy is too great to take a hands-off approach. The risk of Manitoba producers is that this gov ernment will prioritize organized labour as they have done with bills that they tried to hide and force through.

Will the minister take action to e nsure the trains keep rolling to support our agricultural producers, yes or no? Mr. Kostyshyn: And yes, I've had the honour of speaking to the federal government, talking about the importance of the rail and grain movement across Canada and to our province as well. We continue to work on the betterment for the agriculture producers as it's an im portant time of the year as always, 365 days a year. As you will remember, it's not part of our responsi bility, but we work in part nership with the f ederal government of the opportunity. But I want to talk about the opportunity.

The past seven and a half years the members opposite choose not to withstand supporting farmers in a lot of respects, and obviously, I think you know one subject that I love to talk about, but the members opposite choose not to have this come forward. But I want to ensure– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order. Order. Order. The government bench needs to come to order. The honourable member for Portage la Prairie, on a final supplementary question. MLA Bereza: I was waiting for it; didn't get it.

The fact of the matter is that we, as a society, consider transport of grains and other ag products as essenti al services for only a portion of their journey. Manitoba feeds the world and our agri culture industry feeds our economy. Producers are already hurting with the punitive carbon tax hike that this gov ernment is supporting. Will this Minister of Agric ulture finally get on side of farmers and commit to supporting any and all action to ensure that our agriculture products make it from farm gate to plate? Mr.

Kostyshyn: And obviously I'll take no lessons from the critic across the hallway here about h ow to run agriculture. Let's just talk about, conscientiously, 15 MASC offices were closed under their watch. They want to talk about the opportunity of saving agriculture producers dollars. We want to talk about the fact of Crown lands. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Kostyshyn: Honourable Speaker, it's so great to hear our support about the choices that that previous government chose to make– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

Legislation to Combat Intimate Partner Violence Presentations to Committee re: Bill 209 MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Honour- able Speaker, Bill 209, The Provincial Court Amend- ment Act, or Keira's law, is an integral bill to com - batting intimate partner violence. This has been recog- nized in numerous jurisdictions. This NDP gov ernment, however, has halted the bill and has chosen to silence presenters from all over Manitoba by not allowing them to come to committee and share their presentations. Does the gov ernment believe that this is demo - cratic? Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Minister responsible for Women and Gender Equity): I want to say miigwech to the member opposite for that im portant question, and raising the issue of expanded training to judges. As the member knows, on this side of the House, we take the expanded training of judges very, very seriously, and we strongly agree that we need to be looking at expanded training for judges and other justice officials, like JJPs.

That's why as soon as our government came into force, our Justice Minister has been working with folks in his department and other folks consulting on how to strengthen Bill 209, and that's what our gov- ernment plans to. The Speaker: Member's time is expired.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2017 The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. Request for Non-Partisan Support MLA Lamoureux: Honourable Speaker, this govern- ment has had nine months to introduce any similar legislation to this, and this Justice Minister has not introduced this legislation. This legislation has been passed at both provincial and federal levels here in Canada. All political stripes–Liberal, NDP and PC –have supported this legislation. Will this government rise above partisan politics and explain why they will not work across party lines? MLA Fontaine: I want to take a moment just to acknowledge Rona Ambrose, who first introduced

an act to amend the Judges Act and the Criminal Code sexual assault back in 2017. In fact, it took four years for that act, bill C-3, to actually receive royal assent back in 2021. And so I want to lift Rona up for the work that she did, but I also want to take this oppor tunity to lift up all of those Manitobans that are on the front lines of dealing and addressing intimate partner violence, and those that are on the front line wanting to strengthen legislation to ensure that when Manitobans go to court, that they are heard, that they're listened to and that they're given the best access of justice.

The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question. Presentations to Committee re: Bill 209 MLA Lamoureux: Honourable Speaker, this NDP government supported this legislation at second reading. Numerous individuals, including Keira's family, health providers, survivors and repre sentatives from shelters, resource centres and community groups have all signed up to speak at committee.

Our province has the second highest rate of intimate partner violence across Canada, yet this NDP government is not prioritizing a bill that is taking tangible actions to help survivors now. Does the minister have a message for those who are wishing to speak at committee, but are being silenced by this NDP government? MLA Fontaine: So I just want to take a quick moment to just say miigwech to our colleague, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe), for undertaking this review and this en gagement to strengthen judicial training.

But I also want to remind the member for Tyndall Park that both she and I, I three times, and I can't remember, maybe two first–[interjection]–okay; two times, or I don't know how many times she introduced that similar bill. But actually it was members opposite that blocked that bill. The mem ber for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), Heather Stefanson, when she was the Justice minister. I don't know where she is now. But members opposite, while they're clapping for the member for Tyndall Park, stood and didn't give royal assent to our bill. And now all of a sudden they're the champions of intimate partner violence.

They need to stay out of this one. Provincial Finances Credit Rating Update MLA Nellie Kennedy (Assiniboia): Honourable Speaker, in 2017–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. MLA Kennedy : –the former PC gov ernment received a credit downgrade after tabling their second budget. During their time in office, they continued to cut, tried to destroy our civil service and were not transparent with Manitobans. Manitobans rejected their chaos and cuts to services.

Can the Minister of Finance please tell the House about our most recent credit rating update from S&P Global, and how our gov ernment is charting a responsible path for today and the future? Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finan ce): I'd like to thank my colleague for that excellent question. S&P released their first report card on our gov ern- ment's fiscal management, and we passed with flying colours. That's an A+ stable credit rating. Let me share from the report, I quote, quote: The new gov ernment is focused on fiscal sus tainability. End quote.

And the report goes on to quote, the stable outlook reflects our expectations that in the next two years, healthy economic growth and a renewed focus on fiscal sustainability will result in modest operating surpluses and steadily falling after -capital deficits. End quote. * (14:30)

2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 S&P was clear that the PCs' Budget 2023 resulted in sharp deterioration in the province's finance but our Budget 2024 is getting the province back on track. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Disability Support Workers' Wages Funding Concerns in Budget 2024 Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, on this side of the House, we will always stand up for survivors of intimate partner violence, and I thank the member from Tyndall Park for bringing forward this important bill.

This Minister responsible for Accessibility spoke at length about commit ments to increasing dis ability support worker wages but in reviewing Budget 2024, this NDP is only doing 20 per cent of what our PC team did in 2023. When will this minister release the priorities of accessibility and start prioritizing for vulner able Manitobans? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister responsible for Accessibility): One of the greatest privileges that I've had as the Minister for Accessibility is to meet with so many amazing Manitobans that are involved in advocating in the dis abilities community for a wide range of supports.

I just want to take this oppor tun- ity to say miigwech to each and every one of them for the important work that they do on behalf of all Manitobans. And I would share with the House that Manitoban–Manitoba has taken a lead in respect of accessibility. Across the country, we're one of the few jurisdictions that actually have

an act. And so I think that we are doing good work here in Manitoba– The Speaker: Time has expired. The honourable member for Midland, on a sup- plementary question. Accessibility Act Review Update Implementation of Recommendations Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, in December the accessibility review and the AAC released 27 recommendations to this minister. Can the minister provide an update for the House on whether any of those recommendations have been implemented to date? Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Minister responsible for Accessibility): Our Manitoba Ac cessibility Office, which is made up of phenomenal staff who are doing just phenomenal work, is actively working on the recommendations and in partnership with those com- munity organizations that are on the front lines of ac- cessibility. So I want to assure the member opposite and Manitobans that are watching today that our team is working very, very hard. We've already passed four of the standards for accessibility, including our latest one on transportation. The Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired.

The honourable Opposition House Leader? Mr. Derek Johnson (Official Opposition House Leader): Yes, on a point of order. Point of Order The Speaker: The honour able Op position House Leader, on a point of order. Mr. Johnson: Yes, you had to call government benches to order numerous times and I feel there would have been time for one more question. I humbly ask you for that question. The Speaker: I would indicate that I do not believe the member has a point of order.

I will, however, caution the members of the gov ernment bench that excessive periods of clapping and carrying on may very well lead to extra questions being allowed. However, today, I didn't believe that it was that excessive but please keep in mind –please keep in mind going forward–that you will be watched. And we'll keep that in mind. [interjection] Order. * * * The Speaker: Petitions? Grievances?

ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS The Speaker: As agreed to in the leave request yesterday, the House will now dissolve into Commit- tee of Supply. [interjection] Excuse me, the Speaker is trying to speak and trying to be heard. The House will now resolve into the Com mittee of Supply to consider Estimates from the following departments: in the Chamber , it will be Exec utive Council; in room 255, it'll be Families; in Room 254,

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2019 Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care; and the Deputy Speaker will now take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 HEALTH, SENIORS AND LONG-TERM CARE * (14:50) The Chairperson (Rachelle Schott): Will the Com- mittee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Com mittee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the De partment of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care. Does the honour able minister have an opening statement? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I do. The Chairperson: We–[interjection] The honour - able Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care. MLA Asagwara: I'm pleased, on behalf of the Department of Health, Seniors and Long -Term Care, to present the financial Estimates for the 2024-2025 fiscal year. This is a historic budget with a record investment into health care.

With it, we are delivering on our commitment to Manitobans to clean up the mess of the past over seven and a half years and begin the work of fixing Manitoba's health- care system. It is, indeed, a new day in Manitoba. This budget is the first in the Legislature in a long journey for us as a new gov ernment, but in undoing the work –the damage, rather, done by the previous government.

This budget is a great first step with tangible, ambitious targets tha t are undoubtedly moving us in the right direction and ambitious targets that reflect the ambition of Manitoba's health -care workers and communities who count on a government being ambitious to repair damage done over two terms of a previous government. Fixing health care is our government's No. 1 pri- ority, and we are demonstrating that with a record investment of $8.2 billion. That is an increase of $980 million, or 13.5 per cent.

We're investing $309.5 million in staff retention and recruitm ent, $635 million in capital and $65 million toward reducing emergency wait times. These investments demonstrate our commit ment to providing quality care where and when Manitobans need it. It reflects the growing need for health- care services as Mani toba faces both a growing and in- creasingly diverse and aging population. Patients are at the heart of every decision made in this budget. As a psychiatric nurse myself, this is a fundamental principle in how we implement improve- ments to health car e.

Patients are at the heart of health care, and it is care and passion for patients that motivates Manitoba's health -care workers, whether they're nurses, allied health -care pro fessionals, doctors, support staff. That's what motivates them to show up every single day, providing the care that they do to Manitobans. And ensuring that health- care workers have the proper tools to care for their patients is paramount. A sustainable and respectful work place environment is crucial in creating the best po ssible health outcomes for Manitobans.

And that's why this budget, beyond making historic financial invest ments, puts more resources on the front lines, reduces bureaucracy and works toward the goal of changing the culture in health care. This budget recognizes that solutions are found on the front lines and it prioritizes that fact. This work is a calling. I know that because I had the same one, and answering that calling is a remark- able thing. These vocations deserve admiration, gratitude, trust and r espect.

This budget hires more doctors, nurses, increases staff and patient safety within our emergency departments and other sites and invests in human resources. Addressing the staff shortages in health care is the first step to repairing our system. That means making Manitoba a place where health -care workers want to work again. And that's why we're making recruitment and retention an absolute top priority.

And we're doing that by: opening a new health- care retention and recruitment office; expanding the nurse float pool, including a $291,000 expansion in northern Manitoba; increasing medical residency spots by 38 per cent; investing $3.9 million in prov - incial nursing stations; adding 30 new seats to the Uni- versity of Manitoba's undergraduate medi cal edu ca- tion program; incentivizing medical students to enter family medicine and stream lining their training process; esta blishing satellite medical school–a sat - ellite medical school, rather, in Brandon; increasing funding for the nurse diploma program in Neepawa; and bringing back rural paramedics to the front lines of health care in their com munities and empowering them on the front lines.

2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 We're also increasing funding for interprovincial training agreements by $625,000 for a total amount of $8.2 million. This funding will support the training for health-care workers who want to come to Manitoba. When we talk about reducing emergency room wait times, it's im portant to note that, in our budget, we commit $65 million toward reducing those wait times and ensuring better and faster patient care.

At the heart of this is retaining and recruiting staff and ensuring our emergency de partments are safe spaces for all staff and all patients. * (15:00) We also know that we need infrastructure, and so we're adding 151 new acute -care beds across the province. For years, cuts to acute beds across Manitoba created shortages and exacerbated wait times for patients. This is something that we've heard all too long and know all too well first -hand for Manitobans. It's important to note that we are also improving patient flow through our hospitals with new lower acuity beds.

This will open up more critical -care and acute-care beds for Manitobans. This way, patients most in need of acute care will get the care that they require faster. We're also investing $6.9 million in ensuring patients can get home sooner by increasing weekend patient discharges, addressing the weekend effect, as noted by front-line health-care professionals. Patients will no longer have to wait until Monday to get home. With an increase in allied health -care worker hours, we can increase bed availability and get patients who are ready to go home back to their families sooner.

Our government is investing $4.2 million in esta- blishing 10 community paramedicine units to increase advanced levels of care throughout the province. We gathered with dozens of health -care workers outside of the Victoria general hospital to announce increased investments, including the reopening of t he emer - gency department at that hospital. We are restoring critical -care capacity by esta - blishing permanent funding for 30 ICU beds with a $25-million invest ment.

We know that we need permanent ICU capacity to get Manitobans the care that they need, a component that has been neglected and cut–cut terribly–over recent years. So let's talk about seniors. It is a new day in Manitoba for families and seniors. Our gov ernment has worked hard to secure invest ments from the federal gov ernment and to en sure that Manitoba seniors get the quality care they deserve. We're investing over $21 million of new funding that enables Manitoba seniors to stay in their homes if they so choose.

And our new safe and healthy home– safe and healthy at home program will increase hours of home care. We've also announced a 95 -bed personal -care home in Lac du Bonnet. This is the first of four personal-care homes that our government is building. And we're creating a long -overdue–the long-overdue seniors advocate office–independent seniors advocate office, which will identify, review and analyze issues facing Manitoba seniors. So Budget 2024 is all-encompassing.

With invest- ments in minor injury clinics and increased training capacity, more Manitobans and their families will be connected to a doctor and primary care and team - based care. Our $50- million invest ment in a new healthy system innovation capacity fund will help build surgical capacity here in Manitoba. Our invest ments in CancerCare increased, including increased access for cancer drugs and plans for a new CancerCare building, are steps toward making sure more Manitobans hear those four magic words, you are cancer free.

With our invest ments in paramedicine services, MRI access, doctor recruitment, trans portation im- provements and capital invest ments including the Carberry and Eriksdale emergency departments, we're ensuring better care for rural and northern families. And as we implement better culture across Manitoba and work through part nerships with groups like Aboriginal Health and Wellness and Ka Ni Kanichihk, we're delivering on our commit ments to improve health outcomes and provide better care for Indigenous families.

With a $37-million investment in the front lines– in front -line organizations–we're also improving access to preventative care. These are just some of the high- level broad strokes of Budget 2024, and I want folks to know that we are committed to bringing care closer to Manitobans in their com munities, investing in capacity, hiring, training, retaining more health- care workers, reducing emergency and surgery wait times and building new capital. This budget makes good on these commitments to Manitobans.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2021 Budget 2024 has laid out our government's vision for health care in Manitoba. And so, to close, I want to thank the nurses, doctors, allied health -care pro fessionals, physician assistants, support staff, facility staff, the CAs, all the folks working in our system, the civil servants who work tirelessly –work tirelessly –to deliver care to Manitobans each and every day.

And I want this budget to serve as a message to Manitobans that wherever you are–whether you're in the south of Winnipeg, Thompson, Carberry, in the North, rural areas, in the suburbs or urban centres –you dese rve quality health care where and when you need it, and you deserve that care close to home. Thank you. The Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the critic from the official op position have an opening statement? Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): I only want to extend my thanks ahead of time to both staff and clerks and the pages who are here to assist us with this process but also to the deputy minister and other departmental staff. I know this process is a lot of work for you, and I appreciate it. And it's an im portant part of how we get a budget through this legislative process, as I know you know. So thank you for all of your work in advance. And then I would like to just get straight into questions. The Chairperson: We thank the member.

Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 21.1(

a) contained in resolution 21.1. At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. MLA Asagwara: All right, so first, I want to say thank you to these folks for not only being here today but just for their outstanding work from day one. We are so fortunate in the Department of Health, Seniors and Long- Term Care to have absolutely wonderful human beings doing this work in the civil service but just rock-star professionals, hard-working, super smart, responsive people.

And I feel very, very grate- ful to not only be at this table with you folks, with these folks, but Manitobans are fortunate to have this kind of leadership in the civil service. So we have deputy minister, Scott Sinclair; Suzanne Gervais, who is the associate deputy minister. We have Sandra Henault, who is the assistant deputy minister and EFO; J.P. Fradette, assistant deputy minister. We also have Alissa Brandt, director of min- isterial affairs; Raina Loxley, a special adviser. Thanks. The Chairperson: Thank you, member.

According to our rule 78(16), during the consid - eration of de partmental Estimates, questioning for each department shall proceed in a global manner with questions put separately on all resolu tions once the official opposition critic indicates that questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Cook: I'm going to start with some questions just to get kind of a baseline on where things are at in the department. On page 33 of the actual budget document, there's a reference to something called the 4, 3, 2, 1 staffing plan.

I haven't seen a reference to that anywhere else, and so I'm just wondering if you can elaborate on what that is. * (15:10) MLA Asagwara: I thank the MLA for Roblin, the critic, for that question. So, the 4, 3, 2, 1, that you're ref erencing, that you're referring to, that is a commitment that our gov- ernment has made to hiring 400 doctors, 300 nurses, 200 paramedics and 100 health-care aides.

And so, in our capacity, for quite some time – actually predates forming gov ernment, but certainly since forming government–we've been very clear with Manitobans that our No. 1 priority in being able to successfully move health care in the right direction is going to be roote d in staffing. It's going to be about our ability to retain, recruit and train the number of health-care workers that need to be across our health- care system. The 4, 3, 2, 1, those are numbers that are directly related to areas where we saw previous cuts in health care.

So we know that, for a few years, it's been reported that Manitoba has a shortage of 400- plus doctors in the province. We knew that 300 nurses had

2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 been previously deleted, fired from the health -care system; 200 paramedics were lost across the system– almost 90 alone in rural Manitoba were cut pre - viously. And these are important targets to make sure that we are moving health care in a direction where we're stabilizing staffing. Think it also really reflects to Manitobans that our government recognizes the value in recruiting and retaining and training diverse demographics of health- care workers. So we've talked about team -based models of care.

You know, when we embarked on our listening tour, the decision to make sure that those spaces were welcoming to all health -care workers –front-line health-care workers–I think really reflected that. So making sure that whether you are a nurse, an allied health-care pro fessional, health -care aide, doctor, facility staff.

It's been really i nteresting, actually, to be on the listening tour and hear from hundreds of health- care workers, but what's been really great –and it brings – it brought me back, the first stop that we had really brought me back to how I started my nursing career on a multidisciplinary team, where everybody's expertise was valued. And so, whether you were a nurse, a doctor, housekeeping staff, you worked in the cafeteria, everybody's voice and observations in terms of health care, mattered.

And so, being on the listening tour and seeing folks show up from all disciplines in health care to contribute their voices has been really great because I think that people are seeing that our gov ernment really respects the diversity of health -care pro fes- sionals who contribute to the care that Manitobans count on.

And so the 4, 3, 2, 1 plan speaks to the targets that our government has set in order to ensure that we're moving health care in the right direction; that we, you know, can staff the investments that we're making and that we can action what it is that we're hearing from the front lines from health-care workers. And we've heard really plainly that this is a top priority for everybody. This isn't a decision that was made or an approach under taken by our gov ernment that was done on a whim.

This really reflects what we heard for years, and it reflects that we heard on the doors, and it reflects what we continue to hear from Manitobans: that they want a gov ernment that's committed to taking a really dynamic approach to retention, recruitment and training, getting as many voices heard as possible, contributing to the ways in which we're going to work together to strengthen health care. And so, that's reflected in the 4, 3, 2, 1 approach.

It's interesting as well, I want to note, that we outlined that in our budget to make sure that Manitobans see that our budget –you know, in terms of investing $309 million into retention, recruitment and training, it's important for Manitobans to see that consistent message around what our targets are. Continues to be a priority for our government that we are accountable to Manitobans in the ways we've made that commitment.

And so, whether it's embarking on a listening tour, whether it's making those specific invest ments, you know, talking to health -care workers each and every day, they hear very consistently from us that our priority is making sure that we are addressing the health-care human resource challenges in the health - care system. And outlining that 4, 3, 2, 1 plan really allows for Manitobans to easily grasp what our gov ernment's message and aspirations are. And again, it allows for Manitobans to also check in with our government and hold us accountable to where we've landed on each of those points.

The Chairperson: Thank you, member –thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: Okay. Thank you for that answer. Can you tell me, then– I'm–these are separate, then, from the 1,000 health-care workers promised for this year. So what is the timeline on those overall numbers that you just mentioned? * (15:20) MLA Asagwara: You're not even –they're not even ready. I'm kidding; I'm sorry. Okay, so you asked for a time–the member asked for a timeline. And so that commitment was over a five-year period; so the 4, 3, 2, 1 was over a five-year time frame, timeline.

And so, I know that–because I've had this conver- sation with some folks in terms of what does that mean, you know, with the thousand- health-care- worker target and the investments that we're making. And so I do think it's important to flag the work that's being done to achieve that.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2023 And so the target that we've set in this budget, the way that we've invested in the thousand- health- care-worker target, is really, really ambitious. It's very, very aggressive. But it's a target th at was set based on the work we've been doing in part nership with colleges, with organizations, health leaders, front lines, recognizing that it's a really–it's an all-hands-on- deck approach, that the way in which we're going to be able to successfully retain, recruit and train people requires a unified approach in this matter.

It's part of the reason why it's been really wonderful to go out and talk to Manitobans and explain the approach here, but to do that alongside, you know, the College of Phys icians and Surgeons, Doctors Manitoba, the College of Registered Nurses of Manitoba, college of registered psych nurses of Manitoba, licensed practical nurses of Manitoba, PARIM, College of Family Physicians. You know, these are all organi zations that do a tre mendous amount of outreach and work with their members and have a good under standing of what's going on the front lines in sort of a grassroots way, in many ways.

They're also respon sible for regula tions, policies, et cetera, that we have to wor k in part nership with them in order to advance policies that support our ability to meet these targets. And, you know, there's a few things that I think are really important to note, to highlight, because, you know, health care is challenged across the country. It's a national challenge that we're facing. But Manitoba– there are good things happening in Manitoba. There are great things happening in health care in Manitoba, and it's really im portant that we say thank you to health-care workers and we celebrate them.

And I think it's also really important that we share the positive impacts of the relationships that we're building and that we're repairing with health- care workers. It's reflected in some of the out comes that we're seeing now. So a good example would be being able to create a new mentorship program –nurse mentorship program–in partnership with the colleges, so that recently retired folks have the option to return to practice if they'd like.

I met a woman in rural Manitoba–Lac du Bonnet, actually–she was really, really excited to state that she recently retired and was actually very excited for the opportunity to return to practice in Manitoba and that she appreciated pathways being made easier to do so. And she wanted to make sure her voice was heard in ways that we can work together and learn from folks like her to make that pathway even easier, taking steps like training the first cohort of in stitutional safety officers in Manitoba's history, getting these folks trained to get them onsite to protect workers and patients in health-care settings.

I've had conver sations with health -care workers across the province, be it in Winnipeg or in rural settings, northern Manitoba, who are, quite frankly, relieved that ISOs are finally going to be on location, in several locations already are. And so it's taking steps like that that show Manitobans and show health-care workers and patients that working together gets things done. Something I think it's im portant to high light, because it is part of our 4, 3, 2, 1 plan as it pertains to physicians: we increased medical res idency spots in Manitoba by 38 per cent.

And we did that to attract more doctors from out of province to finish their training and secure good jobs here in Manitoba. Now, we have done some thing collectively here in Manitoba that's pretty special. We have the highest number of spots that were suc cessfully filled in Canada: 173 seats. All of those spots filled in our province, which is something to be really, really proud of; 48 per cent of those folks are going to be in rural and northern Manitoba, which is signi ficant. And so, out of 18 new seats that were added, 11 of those seats are in rural com munities, and that's huge.

We know that when folks train in rural settings, they're more inclined to stay and practise in those settings. And so, we're going to continue to do more work; the work is by no means done. We're still doing a lot of heavy lifting alongside our partners, but we're certainly seeing the benefits of part nerships and respecting front -line health -care workers having an impact in the system. So more work to do, but Budget 2024 gives us the tools to do that work. The Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: I'll put that on the record: that was a very long answer to a short question. That was impressive.

Okay, so I just want to make sure I have this right. We've got two different sets of commitments here. We've got the 4, 3, 2, 1 commitment, which is over a five year period: 400 nurses , 300 doctors, 200 paramedics, 100 health-care aides. Then we have the Budget 2024 commit ment, which is 210 nurses, 100 doctors, 90 paramedics and 600 health-care aides this fiscal year.

2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 For both of those sets of numbers, are these net new positions to the system? Are these filling existing vacancies? What's the breakdown there? MLA Asagwara: I thank the MLA for Roblin for that question. So we are looking at those numbers being a net gain to the system. * (15:30) I think that you asked something really, really im- portant though: is it about filling vacancies, like, what is it. And it's an all-of-the-above approach. You listed one item, but there's really –it's an all -of-the-above approach.

So it is going to be about retention, and I've said this alrea dy, but I'll say it again: it is about retention; it is about being able to train people –that's a big part of it–and it is about being able to recruit. So there are a couple of areas that are particularly interesting because other juris dictions have r eally leaned into those oppor tunities,

whereas Manitoba hasn't particularly been in that space historically. And so one would be, I guess, just as an example, advanced-care paramedics. That's a good example. So advanced-care paramedics have been able to practise in Winnipeg. I know that the critic knows that. But for the past several years they did not have the ability–they weren't allowed to practise in rural Manitoba, which is a challenge. We lost–it was almost 90 paramedics in rural Manitoba, but there weren't the same opportunities in rural commu nities for them to practise to their full scope as ACPs.

And so, you know, adding training capacity right away, supporting folks, being able to access that training, making sure, as the member has indicated, that we're taking steps to fill vacancies, and supporting those oppor tunities is really key, not just for para - medics, but for other areas of health care as well.

You know, a big part of the reason why we stood up the recruitment and retention office is because folks–and I think a part of why is because they felt like they had to protect their own space or their own lane, but many folks were just operating in these silos, not really working in a connected manner. And so standing up the retention and recruitment office allows the opportunity for a centralized cohesive approach, allows the oppor tunity for folks to have a spot they can go in, office that they can work with, to do a lot of this work.

It's an approach that will support, no m atter where people live across Manitoba, will support folks in being able to access expertise to suc- cessfully retain, recruit and train folks. One of the areas –one of the other areas –that Manitoba hasn't really historically been as engaged as other jurisdictions is around encouraging people who have–may be born and raised in Manitoba, but have left to go practise elsewhere or do residencies elsewhere, to come back to Manitoba. That's a space where there had been a gaffe.

And so the recruitment and ret ention office, you know, also doing work around that and finally getting Manitoba into the language–get into the game isn't the best language, but, you know, getting Manitoba into that space and speaking to our own folks who, we know, many of which want to come back to Manitoba, but it's being able to reach out to them and say that we have an op- portunity here. That's really, really important.

And so, you know, the way that we're going to achieve these really ambitious targets is going to require a really dynamic and nimble approach, and by working in collaboration with folks across the health- care system and listening and learning from people who have direct lived experiences in these areas. And so, you know, a good example would be Carberry.

Get ting that emergency room reopened, enhancing access to primary care, and folks heard it directly from the mayor of Carberry; they heard it directly from the health action committee; they heard it from council members; they heard it from the nurse practitioners, nurses alike. That was a team effort. That wasn't gov ernment going in and saying to Carberry, this is what's going to get done and how. It was gov ernment extending a hand out and saying, we're here to listen. It was Carberry coming to gov - ernment and saying, we need you to listen. These are our issues and we want to work together.

It was Prairie Mountain Health; it was the health action committee volunteers; it was everybody coming to the table focused on solutions, focused on relationship building and working together to make health care stronger in their community. And so that approach is the approach that is going to best benefit this work and best benefit Manitobans, and the ability for us to have a net success is going to be rooted in that. And it's a good way. It's a good way to do this work.

And so I feel pretty grateful in the willingness of Manitobans, be it health leaders, com- munity members, experts, front -line folks, to do that work collaboratively.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2025 Mrs. Cook: I just have a couple more questions about these staffing targets. Of the numbers for both the overall five -year target and for this year's target, are these, you know, for example, 210 nurses. Are these 210 FTEs? Or is this, for lack of a better word, 210 bodies, whether they're in a casual, part-time or full-time position? The Chairperson: Thank you, member. MLA Asagwara: Believe the word was people, that you were looking for. People. Yes, it is people. And that's typically the way that it's been, I believe, s tructured historically.

That's just the approach in terms of counting those numbers of, you know, net benefit or attrition, et cetera. The reality–I mean, health care has changed a ton. The critic knows this. It's changed a lot. And so people's needs have changed. Their desire for parti - cular positions has changed. And allowing–creating the opportunities for that flexibility is really im por- tant. I remember when I graduated nursing school and was looking for a job, everybody –at that time, everybody was competing for full-time work.

It was a fight to get into a particular setting and use your skills, but it was also a fight to try to find that full-time FTE. And things have really changed. Folks are looking for different ways of practising. I know, myself, I worked full -time and part -time for the entirety of my front -line career. And that worked really well for me in my life and my lifestyle and balance. I really enjoyed it, and I had good diversity of practice, which was wonderful. And we're seeing t hat from folks.

We've met with–we've heard from students at our front -line listening tour who are really interested in not just front-line practice but also research and innovation. * (15:40) Gosh, I met a nurse the other day at the listening tour who was a psych nurse and is becoming a physician assistant, I believe, which I thought was really cool –really, really cool. And so health- care workers are in creasingly looking for diversity of practice, but they're looking for work- life balance, stability, flexibility that meets their needs.

And so as we work in col laboration with our partners to do the work of retaining, recruiting and training and creating oppor tunities that meet health - care workers where they're at, it is im portant that we allow our selves the ability to be flexible and be a listening gov ernment that can adjust where needed and make sure that we've got oppor tunities available for folks that reflect the increasingly diverse needs of the workforce. And to me, you know, supporting the diversity of the workforce is what contributes to innovation in health care.

I shouldn't say to me; that's science and data and evidence tell us that, and shows us that. Diversity in the work place leads to innovation and fosters environments where mo re and more people feel safe to receive care and have improved outcomes, and so, you know, getting–increasing the numbers of folks on the front lines is also attached to an approach that, you know, we believe needs to be rooted in supporting a diverse front line, diverse –diversity in health-care teams, multidisciplinary teams.

And really doing this work in a way that is constantly checking in with folks on the front line so we have a good sense of what their needs are. And so I try to reassure folks that this listening tour is not just for seven months or for one year; this listening tour is going to be ongoing. And listening tour sometimes happens in the grocery store, sometimes it happens, you know, at the park with my nephew, you run into people at Home Depot and they want to talk about health care, and they want to talk about how we can make health care better.

And so we're always listening and always working to find ways to not only have a net benefit to the system of people, but have a benefit to the system that allows for a diversity of people to practise in the capacities that they identify really meets their needs. The Chairperson: Thank you, honourable Minister. Mrs. Cook: Thank you for that answer. Can you provide –can the minister provide the current nursing vacancy rate, by RHA, in Manitoba? MLA Asagwara: So for the WRHA up until March 31, 2024, the rate was 14.7 per cent. If the member would like the–it's going to take us some time to get the other ones.

But yes, so, we'll start with that. And would the member would like addi - tional SDOs, or? Mrs. Cook: Feel free to take it under advisement and get it back to me. That's fine, I don't need it today. * (15:50) MLA Asagwara: I will take that under ad visement for the member. Yes.

2026 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 Mrs. Cook: Thank you, I appreciate that. I just want to move on to a couple of questions about departmental staffing. So page 11 of the supple- ment indicates a reduction in core staffing within the department from 749.3 FTE to 703 FTE, and I'm just wondering if the minister can elaborate on what those positions are. MLA Asagwara: Okay. I'm going to sort of walk the member through some of this if that's okay. So the total number that she provided–a portion of those were unfilled, never-filled contract task force positions.

So these were temporary positions that were created–my understanding–for that purpose but were never actually filled. There's ad ditional 15 that were COVID related that were also unfilled, so they were temporary pos - itions that were specific to COVID work. And as that work, I guess, was concluded, those positions were no longer existent, actually. So they were actually vacant roles, and they were specific, temporarily, for COVID. And the others were related to seniors, so the seniors–previous seniors de partment.

And so when that consolidation occurred, those roles were –they ended up being duplicated– duplicate roles. So those folks are still working, but –and in roles, obviously – but there is duplication there because of the consolidation. So that totals up the number that you provided. Mrs. Cook: Can the minister just provide the actual breakdown? They mentioned 15 COVID -related positions, which I take it are the 15 public health positions that were eliminated. I think I saw that some where in the supplement. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Specifically, I'm looking for the number of vacant task force positions that they referenced and the number of seniors -related positions that they referenced.

MLA Asagwara: So, in regards to the positions, I do think it's im portant to note that in the months that we've been in gov ernment, you know, the priority being to staff the health -care system, to repair relationships with health -care workers, to invest in adding back capacity to the health-care system, recog- nizing that, you know, Manitobans have all been through an incredibly difficult past several years –we all lived through a global pandemic –and, you know, our priority in strengthening health care is to create a health-care system that is responsive, that is proactive, that is able to respond to the needs of Manitobans wherever they have health-care needs that need to be met. * (16:00) And you know, it's interesting, because when we look at the oppor tunity to do that work –so, specific- ally, you know, positions around COVID, we know that, you know, these positions in parti cular were meant to be temporary positions that address COVID.

Thankfully, we are long, now, out of the thick of COVID, thankfully. But also recog nizing that w hat we learned from COVID is that we have to prioritize making sure that we have a resilient, supported front- line health-care system that, no matter what happens, folks are 'avaible'–available and able to respond. And so recog nizing that, although ther e may be situations where temporary staffing resources were needed, that what we learned from that is that it's better to be focused on adding capacity.

And that our priority cannot be creating chaos in a health -care system; it cannot be cutting jobs from the health-care system. Has to be retaining, recruiting and training folks of diverse health-care backgrounds. And so necessarily, you know, some steps were taken during the pandemic, across not just Manitoba, but other juris dictions as well.

Health -care workers were–thankfully, they rose to the challenge of COVID, and you know, now our gov ernment's responsibility is to rise to the challenge of creating a health-care system that really supports them being the best that they can be on the front lines of health care. And so, you know, I think that's im portant when we talk about what staffing used to look like during these times where–that were very difficult, it also does have to inform the approach that our gov ernment takes moving forward. And so investing in long- term capacity–not just stabilizing the health -care system now.

Our gov ern- ment is focused on, yes, investing and retention, training, recruitment, all that for right now, and working really aggressively in terms of timeline to do that work and set these ambitious targets and achieve them. But we're thinking long term about what does a health-care system in Manitoba need to look like, long term, so that should we have a challenge of an endemic or pandemic or what have you, that we're well positioned to respond; that we're never again in a

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2027 position where Manitoba has some of the worst out - comes in North America, some of the worst outcomes in Canada; that instead, Manitoba is a leader in health care in ways that positioned us –positions us really well to provide the care that Manitobans count on when things are tough. So in reflecting on, you know, some of those positions that were spe cifically, temporarily for COVID, think it's im portant to talk about what we learned, what we should've learned from COVID and how we apply that to our staffing approach moving forward.

The Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: Okay, so I'll just –I'll ask the question again. I'll be clearer this time. So of the 46 reduced positions in core s taffing within the de partment, the minister indicated 15 of those were COVID-related positions. So I'm looking to confirm that those are the same 15 positions eliminated from public health on page 39 of the sup- plement. That leaves 31 remaining positions. How many of those are from the task force, and how many of those are seniors -related positions that were eliminated because they were duplication?

MLA Asagwara: Okay, so I thank the member for that question, and for clarifying that question. I appre- ciate it. And so the seven–as I stated before, with the change in departments, so that was a consolidation of those positions; they were moved elsewhere in other departments. The public health positions –so those were spe - cifically for COVID; those were temporary roles that had been vacant for quite some time. So my under - standing is for many, many months, actually, there was nobody in those positions.

They had done work specific to some data entry that was related to COVID that was concluded quite a while ago. Like early, maybe, 2023, somewhere there. And the task-force related–so the '24 performance and oversight; those were all actually –those were never filled. Task-force-related contract positions. So we've talked a lot –I think we've talked a lot –we've talked; our gov ernment has talked about reducing bureaucracy and redirecting resources to the front line. And this would be a really good example of that.

And so, here you have unfilled, vacant positions, been vacant, unfilled for quite some time , that were meant to be temporary, specific to COVID and other challenges, and reducing bureaucracy means being able to identify vacancies like that. The task -force ones, spe cifically, I think are really interesting, because those were meant –those were created for contractor roles that–but were never utilized. And so those changes were made as part of our broader approach, to make sure that we are redirecting the resources that we have directly to the bedside, and to the front lines of health care.

And I hope that clarifies the question for the member. The Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: I just need to go back, I apologize. I skipped a question that I intended to ask. Back on the staffing targets. Of the numbers that were provided for the overall five-year staffing target and the fiscal '24 staffing target, where will these staff be located? Like, for example, of the 210 nurses that the gov ernment is aiming to hire this year, where in the system will those nurses be located?

And same que stion for doctors, paramedics and health-care aides. * (16:10) MLA Asagwara: I thank the member for that ques - tion. I think it's a really good question, an im portant one in terms of what is our approach going to be and where do we, maybe, hope these folks will go. We recognize–I certainly recognize–that, I mean, we'll hire as many folks as we can and we will hire them wherever they would love to work, right? We want to make sure that all across Manitoba, be it in Winnipeg, rural and northern com munities, that we are supporting folks in being hired absolutely everywhere across the province.

We also recog nize, and I'll reference Carberry again as a good example that there are specific areas, regions, parts of the province that maybe have unique challenges in staffing, and so making sure that we are taking a nimble and targeted approach, understanding the needs of particular communities is key in order to make sure that we can success fully hire and recruit and attract folks to these particular areas. So, if we were to look at paramedics as one example, you know our primary area of staffing is in rural Manitoba. That's really what we're respon sible for in terms of staffing paramedicine.

Theses are rural

2028 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 communities, which is why it's so im portant to make sure that rural paramedics have access to practice to their full scope and ability, access to advanced -care paramedicine training, access to the op portunities to practice to their full scope across rural Manitoba. If we take a look at nurses, specifically, that–the target of nurses that we intend to bring into the system, attract into the system and retain, our gov ernment in this budget is adding 151 new beds to the health-care system.

Those are acute- care beds, those are lower acuity beds, those are cancer -care beds, those are psychiatric beds. There's a diversity of beds that are being added to the system. And we all know that a bed is just a bed without staff. And so, taking an approach that ensures that we are working with our partners, utilizing really innov - ative approaches in Manitoba like the nursing float pool. Investing in the float pool is investing in innovation in Manitoba.

And our investment in the nursing float pool is to allow for nurses to work across rural Manito ba, in northern Manitoba, in Winnipeg, to work not only full-time but part -time as well, to give them the flexibility to participate in a model of service delivery that allows for work -life balance, gives them flex - ibility, incents their capacity to work, builds cohesion and collegiality in terms of the relationships they form with other nurses who are practising through the float pool, allows for these folks to contribute to pensions, allows for these folks to pick up in the public system, which we've heard loud and clear from nurses they want to do.

They just needed a tool that was flexible enough to support the ways in which they wanted to do that. And so, working with nurses, working with doctors, working with leaders, working with folks across the sys tem to make sure that we are being strategic about how we hire is really im portant. You know, the recruitment and retention office allows us this really wonderful oppor tunity to work directly with communities to better understand their needs and to have a line of sight into how it is that we can work with them to develop a long- term, sus tainable approach that works for them.

It is something that folks have already articulated has instilled hope and confi dence in their ability to really work wit h gov ernment as a partner. And it allows for us as a gov ernment to plan long- term. Certainly, the goals that we've outlined speak to Budget 2024 and into '25, speaks to 4, 3, 2, 1 over five years. But really, it's about, what do we do in this budget that sets the tone and establishes a strong foundation for what we do every year after that and that will benefit Manitobans long -term across the province.

And so, we will hire health -care workers of all stripes absolutely everywhere across the province, and as many as we possibly can. But we're going to do that in part nership. We're going to be strategic, take a targeted approach to make sure that where we see areas of increased need that we're working in creative ways and innovative ways to meet those ne eds, investing in strategies like the float pool to enhance our ability to support nurses in having unique ways to practise in the public system.

And investing in making sure that the beds that are actively coming online, that are adding back capacity that was cut from the system, are staffed with people who are dedicated to providing quality care at the bedside that Manitobans deserve. The Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: Thank you. The minister mentioned the float pool. How many nurses have signed up for the float pool? * (16:20) MLA Asagwara: I thank the member for that question. The float pool is an innovation specific to Manitoba that is garnering envy from other juris dic- tions.

Again, I think it's so important that we celebrate the good things that are happening in health care in Manitoba and that we are not quiet about them. I know that, perhaps, maybe we're more humble than Ontario, or Winnipeg's more humble than Toronto, or there's, you know, debates about that.

But I do think it's important for Manitoba to flex a little bit in terms of the things that we're doing here that are innovative that we're seeing positive impacts as a result of, and the float pool is certainly one of those areas which is a significant reason why our gov- ernment has invested in expanding and enhancing the float pool and supporting nurses in having the oppor- tunity to practise via the float pool if they so choose.

It is a great tool for strengthening the public health - care system, for bringing n urses back to the public health-care system, and doing so in a way that isn't just rooted in incentives or things like that, but it's rooted in collegiality.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2029 And I mentioned that before, because when I had the opportunity and as I've had the opportunity to learn about how the float pool has evolved and what investing in the float pool allows for the folks who are doing the work around enhancing it to do, it's incred- ible to see how it's really evolved into a tool that equips nurses with the partnerships and resources that affirm that working in the public health-care system is the place they want to be. And so the fact that we have 150 nurses in the float pool is a great success.

And it's some thing that we are continuing to grow. It is a number that reflects the appetite of nurses to return to the public system. You know, previously, under the previous gov- ernment, there were hundreds, literally hundreds of nurses who wanted to be a part of the float pool but it– they lacked the capacity to onboa rd these folks, and they lacked the capacity to establish an approach that, you know, afforded nurses flexibility around part-time capacity and working in specific other regions.

And so our gov ernment using Budget 2024 to invest in enhancing and strengthening the float pool has had tangible results. In the last two months alone, we've seen a thousand hours, a thousand–sorry, a thousand shifts filled by the float pool. That is an impressive number when I believe the total number is somewhere around–maybe 3,500; somewhere around there. So in the last two months, we're seeing the benefits of our invest ments already paying off.

You know, we have communicated consistently with float pool leadership that this is a priority, and to action the enhancements, to work together to com municate to nurses this opportunity. And we're seeing the benefits of that. And so we're going to continue to make targeted investments, like, into the float pool, that afford nurses the oppor tunity to have flexibility an d work- life balance. We're going to continue to onboard nurses as assertively, in terms of timeline, as we can, into the float pool, and to find increased ways for them to work across the province.

So, you know, expanding the capacity of the float pool under our gov ernment resulted–has resulted in Prairie Mountain Health, in Southern Health being able to utilize the float pool, which has been a wonderful, wonderful tool for them; great lever for them to pull in terms of making sure that they've got folks working in the public system through the float pool. And it really allows for regions that have unique challenges in staffing to have another way that they can staff at the bedside and on the front lines and know that the nurses, through the float pool, also have the benefits of that structure.

Again, being able to contribute pension, being able to pick up part -time, being able to be part of a network of nurses that are supporting one another in this framework; it's unique to Manitoba. It's something that we should be really proud of, and it's certainly an area that we're going to continue to strengthen to the benefit of patients and to the benefit of nurses who want to come back to the public system. The Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: Thank you for that. I'm going to shift gears just a little bit. So I think we all agree that reducing reliance on agency nurses is an im portant goal.

But in order to measure performance in that area, you have to know where you're starting from. So I'm sure the department has this answer readily available. I'm wondering if the minister can provide the current agency nurse hours by RHA, to the most recent month available, I guess. * (16:30) MLA Asagwara: Thank the member for that question. I'm just going t o go by region. So WRHA, $43,973; Prairie Mountain Health, three -forty– $340,515; Southern Health, $120,739; Interlake - Eastern, $184,848; Northern, $146,664.

I will do the quick math for the member and say that totals $836,664, and that was as of December 2023. And so, I think it's im portant to talk about –to contextualize this a bit and so –you know, what we have heard, what I have heard really plainly from regional health author ities are that they have been facing some very obviously signi ficant chal lenges over the years, but certainly, that they also want to reduce the over-utilization of agencies in Manitoba.

It is a challenge across the country but certainly here in Manitoba, we have an im portant opportunity to strengthen public health care, to attract health-care professionals, nurses back into the public system which is why, again–and I'll keep talking about it because it is a very important tool and investment that

2030 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2024 we've made in the float pool. Not only to reduce the use of agencies, it's certainly–economically, it makes sense to invest in a float pool and have nurses return to the public system, but it is also about strengthening care in ways in the system, as well.

We know that the public health- care system is a fundamental Canad ian value to have public health care, to have a strong public health- care system, and Manitobans count on consistency, quality care, nurses who have the oppor tunity and the time to build relationships with their patients, with their families, with comm unities, and nurses who have a strong work-life balance so that, you know, they're able to show up to work and know that their plans to be there for that shift are going to be honoured and that they have control over their schedule.

And the float pool a llows nurses to have that control and it allows for consistency in the quality of care that's being provided. And it's a great tool here in Manitoba that we will continue to strengthen and invest in so that we have nurses returning to the public system, mo ving away from this over -reliance and dependency on private -for-profit agencies and, ultimately, this benefits Manitoba patients. Certainly, I can ap preciate that regional health authorities in previous years didn't have a willing partner at the table to work with them.

They didn't have a government willing to work with them, invest in strategies that allowed for them to not increase their reliance on agencies and so that work and that culture change around the approach to staffing health care is going to take time, but making the decision to invest in enhancing the float pool –making the decision which we have shared more recently with the public to make sure that we've got some quality controls in place when it comes to agency use in Manitoba is really important.

And so we're doing some thing that has not been done in this space in the province, where we are taking steps to move health care in a direction which we haven't seen in the past seven and a half years, to strengthen public health care, to have greater fiscal accountability in health care, which Manitobans have entrusted us to do, recognizing it's going to take us time to move things in a better direction.

But, certainly, you know, Manitoba –we look at our demogra phics and popula tion distribution, per capita details –makes no sense that we have the number of agencies in our province operating in relation, for example, to British Columbia who, I mean, we've got –I'm not even sure maybe it's five times as many agencies as that jurisdiction.

So there's work that we are doing to make sure that we are supporting quality of care in Manitoba, that we are taking a more fiscally respon sible approach and that we're supporting nurses and health- care workers in having a good work-life balance in the public system, which is what we've heard loud and clear they want. The Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: I appreciate the answer and the context around it, and I do appre ciate the value of the float pool in helping to reduce agency use.

I'm just wondering what specific other incentives have been offered to encourage nurses who have left for agencies to come back to the public system? MLA Asagwara: Yes, that's a really, really good question. * (16:40) Certainly, again, the float pool is a part of a larger approach.

It is –it's been fascinating, kind of heart - breaking, quite frankly, at times, to hear from nurses on the front lines that they have felt unheard and ignored for years –for years –and as somebody who worked on the front lines in acute care, in long -term care, in mental health, in addictions, with youth, adults, seniors, I know what it means when you have leadership that values your voice. And I also know what it means for nurses if you do not have leadership that values your voice.

You know, I was a front -line nurse, working in an acute - care setting and in community, back in 2016, and pretty quickly saw some shifts that made it more difficult for us on the front lines to provide the standard of care that we showed up every day at work counting on being able to provide our patients. And what I've heard from nurses on the front lines are stories of frustration, of not being heard over the past several years. But I've also heard stories of hope. I've heard inspired ideas, optimism from people who know that they have leadership in government that wants to hear from them directly.

And I'm not exaggerating when I say I'd speak to health-care workers every single day of the week, at all hours. Shift workers work at all hours, and so, you know, I make myself available for when folks are available.

May 22, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2031 And I think there's a real generosity of spirit here in Manitoba, where health-care workers will go out of their way and above and beyond to share their ideas and their concerns and their hopes and want to be a part of moving things in a better direction. And we can't take that for granted. And so the float pool, yes, is one area we've invested to really enhance work -life balance, attract folks back to the public system and a myriad of other things.

But certainly the listening tour has been a really great opportunity and mechanism for us to learn from the front lines, to listen to their expertise, to meet them exactly where they're at, provide some coffees, some muffins, you know, and sit in a space where they have the opportunity to share what they have not been able to get across for some time. And then to keep those relationships going, you know, having the online platform EngageMB, where folks can share in that way if that's their comfort level.

You know, creating oppor tunities for–job opportun- ities–in the health -care system, looking at ways in which we can support folks being trained in their own communities. You know, we are investing in commu- nities like Neepawa so that LPNs can be trained in rural communities. These are all ways that our gov ernment is investing in nurses acr oss the province: listening, employment oppor tunities that provide work -life balance, training opportunities so they can get the edu- cation that they want in their home com munities and stay and practise in their home com munities. We know how important that is to folks.

There was a nurse here, Tamra, a couple of weeks ago, for Indigenous Nurses Day, for national nurses week, and it was in - credible to see this nurse who we advocated with while we were in op position, born and raised in Manitoba, First Nations, Indigenous nurse, to be able to practise in her own province without the barriers that were in the way. And that advocacy in that work, we do that work in government now in partnership with colleges, with folks like Tamra, so that they can be suc cessful in practising in their own communities, which is–it's in- credible to see that she's able to do that work now.

And so we build those relationships. We invest in the grow-your-own approach in communities. We get to the bargaining table, right? We don't shut people out for four and five and five and a half and six years from the table where we're supposed to me et them where they're at and try to come to a solution in terms of folks having agreements that work for them. And so, is it all absolutely perfect? No. We're a listening gov ernment.

We're open to learning and adapting and being flexible, but we're committed to doing that work with folks and we're seeing the benefits of that, recognizing there's still a lot of work to do, but we're going to do that in col laboration. We're going to do that work together. The Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Mrs. Cook: I appreciate that the minister is always talking to health-care workers; I believe it. I also talk to health -care workers, because they call me.

And that was the genesis of the–my question in question period today, where I tabled a document that had been sent to me by a nurse who was con - cerned, didn't like what was on offer in the collective agreement. And so I want to ask about, when it comes to agency nurses, what is the meaning and intent of that clause in the proposed collective agreement? And I'll just –I'll read it, so that it's very clear which one I'm asking about. It reads: preclusion that clearly prohibits agency nurses working in the same EO that they hold a position in.

I want to ask what the meaning and intent of that is, specifically. * (16:50) MLA Asagwara: Yes. Can the member table that? [interjection] Sure. Mrs. Cook: Yes, we'll get that to table. While we're getting that, I'll divert to a different question. The–last week, the Premier (Mr. Kinew) mentioned that the gov ernment plans to validate nursing agen- cies, which I know the minister has already touched on as a quality management measure.

But I'm just wondering if the minister could provide more details around how that will work, the timing, when agencies can expect to have to apply or whether this will be done through an RFP, RFQ pro- cess, and most importantly, how the minister expects that to impac

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-60
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 60.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c565620abbb21a2dc041f664d5097251ab48578d

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