Manitoba Hansard — 8 February 1974 (Sitting 10, 30th Legislature, 1st Session)

30-1-10

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Speaker The Honourable Peter Fox Vol. XXI No. 10 2:30p.m., Friday, February 8th, 1974. First Session, 30th Legislature. Printed by R. S. Evans- Queen's Printer for Province of Manitoba

THE LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 2:30 o'clock, Friday, February 8, 1974 INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS 219 MR. SPEAKER: Before we proceed I should like to direct the attention of the honourable members to the gallery where we have 30 students of Grade 11 standing of the Springfield Col legiate. These students are under the direction of Mr. Smythe and Mrs. Mazur. This se hool is located in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Springfield, the Minister of Tour ism, Recreation and Cultural Affairs. We also have 20 students of Grade 3 standing of the King George V School.

These stu dents are under the direction of Mrs. Cathine Ousey. This school is located in the constituency of the Honourable Member for St. Boniface. On behalf of all the honourable members, I welcome you here today. The Honourable Member for Minnedosa. THRONE SPEECH DEBATE MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On rising in the Throne Speech Debate on this the Thirtieth Legislature as is customary I congratulate you, Sir, on your re-election to the post you now hold in this Chamber. I would also congratulate the mover and seconder to the Throne Speech Debate who discharged that honour very ably.

Also I would like to congratulate all the newly elected members to this House and trust that they will enjoy their time spent here in the deliberations that they will be enjoying from now on in this session. I would also like to thank the electors of the constituency of Minnedosa for returning me as their representative for another term and I will look after their interests to the best of my ability in bringing their needs and wants to the attention of the government. I have been, I don't know whether disappointed is the right word or not, Mr. Speaker, but a little disillusioned with the start of this session.

I suppose I'll get into the swing of it as it progresses but it seemed to start off and we were back to the same old stuff we had left off last May. I note the Honourable Minister of Public Works seemed to set the stage with his deliber ation on the remarks from my colleague from Morris when he took time to make a few comments on the seconding of your nomination. I think they were very timely and I think there was a real message there in connection with traditions and responsibility to this Chamber, but apparently he missed the message and I'm sure, Sir, that the message was there and that you did not miss it.

The Honourable Minister of Mines and Natural Resources I felt last night was not his us ual self,' I look forward to hearing his participation in the debate most eagerly because I con sider him an extremely able debater and usually turns in a command performance and gives one a great deal of food for thought; but I felt that last night he showed his teeth a little bit; maybe we riled him up, we had a small lecture in those ogres of the banking system and I think it gives us some idea of if we would give him control of the money supply just what we might expect.

I would say to him that, just in support of the banking profession that the Canadian system, and I know they have banking systems in other countries but, Mr. Speaker, I think the Canadian banking system is one of the strongest in the world. This is recognized in many areas and I think they have played a real role in developing the country and have enjoyed public equity which is somewhat different than state controL But I would also remind him of the short comings that they may be accused of over the years.

They have been governed by a Bank Act which may at times have been a bit antiquated and difficult for them to operate under, but it's understandable maybe because members opposite sometimes don't worry too much about acts such as Civil Service Acts and Health Insurance Acts and even Election Acts, but it's sometimes difficult I know in getting changes in these government acts as quickly as we would like. I would also want to make a comment on the Honourable Minister of Finance on the Min eral Tax Act.

I know that he is not happy with our reaction or our response to the Act when the bills finally came out and I think he has misinterpreted our position to some degree. I felt his contribution today was possibly a little better and more in keeping with his contributions of the one that he made the other evening when I felt that he was a little bit smug maybe and giving the impression that he'd sort of put over a smooth deal on -_us, because I know it's im portant to me and I know it's important to my constituents that ownership of land is something

220 February 8, 1974 THRONE SPEECH (MR.

BLAKE Con't) .. .. that people over the years have taken great pride in, they've worked very hard to obtain clear titles to their property and in some cases this included mineral rights, and we fully believed that individuals were going to be exempt regardless of some little legal technicality in the Act that didn't specifically spell out whether they would be farming the land themselves or whether it might be passed on to their children, and if these people are to be classed as speculators I don't know, by holding the mineral rights to a small piece of land I don't think it's being a speculator anymore than it is to buy a ticket on a lottery probably.

But to say that these people are speculators I don't think, Mr. Speaker, is really important. It's a bit nonsensicaL I know that we support the concept of taxing people that are holding large tracts of land for speculative purposes and large acreages in the north where there may be minerals, but we fully believed, and I fully believed in voting for the passage of this Act that the individ uals were going to be exempt whether they were actually farming that land or not, and apparently we have been had. I should say a word about Autopac and I would congratulate the Minister on his appointment to that post.

I know that the Honourable Minister is a turkey farmer and I hope that he doesn't become a sitting duck, Mr. Speaker, in some of the problems that he may run into. I just don't know where I might start. I suppose I should start with the government entering into the insurance field where it was stated time and time again by the Premier that the main reason for entering the auto insurance field was to lower premiums and to better service the people of Manitoba, particularly the motorists of Manitoba. And he also stated at that time that the government was dedicated to fully inform the public.

It should also be noted that at that time, at the start of the auto insurance where the Minister of Mines and Resources who is usually an honest person finally indicated the real reason for the government entering the auto insurance field and that was to obtain control of the premium money, and with that settled it cast a little different light on the reason for the government entry into that field.

With that particular bit of honesty I don't know why they can't continue to be honest and continue to tell the people the truth about the rates instead of fudging them up with hidden costs and bringing one rate in crease in and then when that settles down bring in another one, built in cushions and we can't trace the percentage of increases. Mr. Speaker, I would like to read one or two comments that were made, and it's an

article that appeared in the Winnipeg Tribune December last year. It goes back to 1972 when the Premier was speaking at a by-election in Erickson --(Interjection)-- The by-election was in Minnedosa, the Premier speaking in Eri ckson, Mr. Speaker. In Eri ckson, he said: "Our premiums will be kept constant next year" - that was 1972 - "the year after 1973 and the year after that, 197 4. " Now this statement, Mr. Speaker, prompted the people on this side of the House to say that Autopac premiums must have been inflated.

And a week later, "Yes," the Premier said, "there's a 5 to 8 percent built-in margin to keep the premiums stable for the next two or three years. " But the next day the Honourable Mr. Howard Pawley the Minister responsible for Autopac at that time indicated that this really wasn't quite the case, that the figure to which the Premier referred to was expected return on invested Autopac premiums and that these would be used to form that cushion to keep the rates stable over the next number of years. He said at that time there would be no general increase in 1973.

In October 1972 the Premier said that Autopac was headed for a $3 million surplus in its first year of operation. He announced that the premiums would be lowered as a result of this great fine showing. In November of that year Mr. Pawley mentioned again that there would be no increases. He said that Autopac had a $2. 3 million surplus for its first fiscal year. In March of 1973 the Premier mentioned that Autopac was doing so well that he thought it might be a good idea if they would provide the extra insurance required for the ships sailing into Hudson Bay or to Port Churchill. These are great announcements, Mr.

Speaker, when we find that in that particular year the Public Insurance Corporation suffered a pretty heavy loss; and it seems odd to me that this loss wasn't evident to them sometime before the end of their year. They must have known that things weren't going all that well. But there was going to be an election in June and naturally it wouldn't be a good idea to announce a massive loss at that time.

So they kept those losses hidden as best they could I suppose and Autopac kept on paying out healthy claims, making a few more friends and possibly a few more votes and I wouldn't --(Interjection)-- When Pm finished, yes. I wouldn't maybe want to say just offhand that it was buying votes, Mr. Speaker, but the members opposite have been pretty adept at that in the past and it could be construed

February 8, 1974 221 THRONE SPEECH (MR. BLAKE Con'

t) that way I suppose. But the loss of $8 million plus the starting up costs of possibly six is something that I think is serious, six million. They talk about savings of 20 percent, Mr. Speaker, and I can see where they might get it because premiums last year were 40 million and 20 percent of 40 million is 8 million which is what the corporation lost so I can see how they're going to save us 20 percent on our premiums.

I should make one comment on the new business rating and we agree that this is not something new, there was a business rate before, but I wonder if the new business rate is actuarially sound, if the proper studies have been carried out and I would like someone to in dicate to me that a person using his car for business is probably more accident prone to others.

He may be on the road a little better but I think a great number of businessmen are probably pretty good drivers and I would like to see some statistics to indicate that he may be a poor risk or be more accident prone. --(Interjection)-- I'll get in touch with them, the Honourable Minister suggested, and I'll bring them to your attention after I've had time to prove them. I don't know how you will be able to assess the 15 percent business use. That's an extremely delicate area.

I know the onus is going to be on the motorist and I don't know, if the motorist is involved in an accident if his neighbour is going to squeal on him and say he was using his car for business or just how this might be arrived at. I know the Honourable Minister took a question the other day about elected people such as ourselves. I know I spend more than 15 percent of my time on behalf of my constituents and I suppose that's my business so I assume that I'm going to be charged a business category for my additional coverage. Well, Mr.

Speaker, I don't want to belabour too many points on this particular aspect of Autopac because I think there are so many things that are pretty obvious to the motoring public and to the people involved that something had to be done. On behalf of my particular party, Mr.

Speaker, we would request the Minister to facilitate the appearance of the General Manager of Autopac before the Public utilities Committee of this Legislature, Chairman of the Board of Autopac, before the Legislative Committee whereby we may ask some questions and get some straight answers on where the corporation is headed, how the losses are going to be recovered because they can't carry them forever I don't imagine; and while we're at it we may be able to discuss ways of heading off another hailstone, it might be helpful.

But I think the Minister can show some real leadership here and facilitate this matter, and I think something else we would like to see is to see the insurance report for the MPIC reported under the report to the Superintendent of insurance, which is under the Insurance Act of Canada and their proper and accepted accounting standards in the insurance industry are used and we would have a better opportunity maybe to compare the statement with any other people in the business and just see whether we're really saving that much money on our premiums or not.

It was mentioned in the Trrone Speech Debate,the entry into the general insurance field, and here again the Premier has indicated that he wouldn't hesitate to enter the private sector where there was a demonstrated need or where the public were being not served at a reason able cost --(Int erjection)-- Yes, my colleague says there's a demonstrated need in Autopac. But I just wonder if they have sat down with the insurance people. Most of the insurance in surers are regulated under federal laws, I hope they have sat down with them and discussed the areas of problem and gained some knowledge from them.

They say there's no problem, I'm inclined to agree that there might not be a problem because I'm just worried about suffer ing another staggering loss if you get into this particular field because there are many people with expertise in this field that have been in it for many many years and I know they suffer losses from time to time, in fact some of them have. I would think, Mr. Premier, if there is a demonstrated need in this particular field, that to maintain a savings of $2, $3 or $4 to a homeowner really it's not as important to the hundreds of dollars that are being eroded by inflation and taxes.

I'm sure there are fields that are much more important and where they could show a great deal more thrust than enter ing this field to save the homeowner $2 or $3 on his premium. I would just say a word on Hydro, Mr. Speaker, and I know that this will be debated niore thoroughly when we get into the Supply Estimates but there is a concern by us on this side in serious problems facing Hydro. We feel that this is one of the finest utilities in North Amer ica that's become political to some degree and we don't think that's good for a public utility.

It would seem morale is not what it should be and we feel that there will be instances come to

222 February 8, 1974 THRONE SPEECH (MR. BLAKE Con't) ... light in the near future that will indicate all is not well with hydro. To say a word about the Minnedooa constituency, I realize that my colleague from Rhine land has mentioned this morning the problem of roads. I referred that to the Leader of the Liberal Party the other day, Mr. Minister, and we're going to try and solve that together.

I can also speak for the roads in my constituency and I agree wholeheartedly with my colleague that the roads in the north are extremely important, there's no doubt in my mind about that, but we cannot neglect the road system in the south because maintenance programs are not being carried out adequately, we're going to be faced with a multi-million dollar rebuilding and reshaping road program if they're allowed to deteriorate much further.

I know the Minister of Highways is not in his seat but I know that the federal jurisdiction of Riding Mountain National Park presents unique problems but the road through the park, Mr. Speaker, is in a deplorable condition and I would urge him to use the influences of his good office to encourage the Federal Government to rebuild and repave that road with much haste because it is an extremely busy artery, not only to tourist traffic but to the people travelling to and from the northern areas.

And also in that particular vein there has been delegations in the past promoting a road north from the Rossburn area through to Grandview which is an area of nine or ten miles whereby now they have to travel roughly a hundred miles to get into the southern access of Riding Mountain National Park. I think this road is necessary for the de velopment of that area and it's extremely important for the people to be able to have easier access to the south.

Now as I said earlier, I realize that they are largely federal respon sibilities and it's a difficult area but I would urge him to use whatever influence he might have to try and bring this about as quickly as possible. Now I know there are many other speakers wanting to make a contribution, Mr. Speaker, so I will look forward to further debate when we get into the Supply Estimates and I thank you for recognizing me at this time. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour. A MEMBER: It is Friday afternoon after all, isn't it? MR. PAULLEY: Yes, and Mr.

Speaker, possibly the Member for Lakeside would wish it was Sunday afternoon when there was not a session of this House before I'm finished with he and his party. Mr. Speaker, it is always a privilege for me to have this opportunity at the beginning of a session to pay certain tributes to members of the Assembly. And I first of all wish to start, Mr. Speaker, by complimenting you on your re-election to the office of the presiding person in this Assembly.

I'm sure that most members, if not all, will agree with me that in your first term of office you acquitted yourself with dignity and honour despite the fact that there were many occasions upon which a person with a lesser stature would have thrown up his hands in holy terror and walked out because of the conduct of some of the members of this Assembly. However, Sir, I trust and hope, I trust and hope that as a result of a provincial election that those that were here last year and have been returned will see the errors of their ways and be more tolerant and more respectful of your august position. Mr.

Speaker, I cannot guarantee that but I say to my honourable friends, including the Member for Lakeside, that it would be well for him to take my words under contemplation. I think this year, Mr. Speaker, that the mover and the seconder in reply to the Speech from the Throne acquitted themselves with honour.

I think that they have indicated that while there may be changes in the personnel in the Legislature that people of their calibre entering into the arena of public affairs, and in this case both the mover and seconder for their first time, acquitted themselves admirably and indicated to Manitoba that while the old may go either by retirement or at the will of the people, that Manitobans are still being well served by those who take their place, so I compliment them on their endeavours. As an old timer, Mr.

Speaker, in this House, as I look around the change of membership I cannot but express a regret at the defeat at the. polls of some of our former associates in the Assembly and yet that is tempered by the replacements that we have. For instance, Mr. Speaker, and I do not mean this derogatory of the new member for St. James, I think that this House will feel the loss of my former colleague the Attorney-General because he made a great contribution in this House to the well-being of all of Manitoba.

I think, too, that insofar as the Liberal Party is concerned they lost a man who was sincere and devoted in Leonard Barkman of Steinbach. I think the Social Credit Party who are no longer represented in this

February 8, 1974 223 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PAULLEY Con't) .... House have lost a valuable person in Jake Froese -- not because of the Social Credit Party, but how can this House after the years that the former Member for Rhineland, Jake Froese, made his contribution, really acknowledge his contribution. And it might be that my friend from Lakeside would properly say: "It's a bad sit-yee-ation" it is true, Mr. Speaker, but nonetheless, nonetheless Jake Froese made an invaluable contribution to Manitoba and I respect him for it, again not being derogatory of the Member who won the election from him this last year.

Which leads me, Mr. Speaker, to say a word at this particular time of my Leader the Premier of the Province of Manitoba. I think I can say this, Mr. Speaker, because I am not preaching for a call. I'm sure that members will recognize that for many years in opposition I constantly fought along with my colleagues for the day when the New Democratic Party would become the government of Manitoba; and in the process, as political parties must do, we looked for an individual to lead us into victory. And I was a participant in that crusade, may you say, Mr.

Speaker, in having a person come into Manitoba, a Manitoban incidentally, to assist us in becoming the government of Manitoba. That person is our present Premier. But I want to compliment him and yet at the same time in complimenting him in his endeavours in leading the New Democratic Party in 1969 to the first forward-looking government Manitoba had in lOO years, I want to suggest to him that there are great penalties that one has to pay for involvement in political life, and I'm sure, Mr.

Speaker, that many of us has observed that my honourable friend who sits on my right is at least at this particular time paying those penalties. He's not the young vigorous looking man that he was in 1969, he is far more com petent, but I want to say that he is going to have to pay the sacrifice and is paying the sacri fice that even I paid for my long years of involvement in the political arena. He may not really see his children grow up as others who do not become involved in politics see their children grow up.

He may have to wait, as I have had to wait, until my children produced grandchildren in order that we may truly appreciate the cost of involvement in political affairs. Sometimes, Mr. Speaker, and my colleagues in government, when I hear of the barbs and the arrows and stilettos that are thrown toward politicians I sometimes wonder whether people truly appreciate the sacrifices that people make because they're involved in politics. We hear over our radio by-lines and the likes of this invariably that the politician is scum, we hear that the politician is something to be spat upon.

I want to say that I appreciate and realize the sacrifice that my honourable friend the Premier is making, along with his wife, as indeed so many more have made in politics and --(Interjection)-- Well I don't know whether you want to be spit on or not, I wouldn't spit on you my dear friend. But that is the opinion of so many people, Mr. Speaker, when they look at politicians. So I could not help but take this opportunity, Mr. Speaker, after having listened to 26 Throne Speeches read by various Lieutenant Governors and th en hear the criticisms directed to my colleague and to my Premier by some members opposite.

I thought that this would give me an opportunity of saying to them as the Dean of this House that sometimes we have to sit back and consider whether it was well worthwhile to make a contribution to the destiny of our province. I well recall when Eddie Schreyer first came into this House. The youngest member ever elected in the Province of Manitoba and I had at that time, Mr. Speaker, the honour to be his Leader.

He respected me but I'm happy to be able to say that as much as he respected me as his Leader at that time I give him twicefold or more my respect to him as my Leader, and I think when the whole history of Manitoba is known that Eddie Schreyer will go down on record as one of the finest individuals and the best Premiers that Manitoba ever had. (Applause) Now, Mr. Speaker, I come to the Leaders of the two Opposition parties.

I'm sorry that neither one happens to be in their place at the present time because I particularly want to say a few words in respect of the Leader of the Opposition and his tirade of the other day when he moved the first motion of non-confidence in the Government of Manitoba.

And I want to say to his colleagues that in all of the years since 1953 that I have had the honour of being a member of this Assembly, at that time a comparatively young man;have never in my whole lifetime have I heard such a diatribe, never have I heard such a low-brow speech as I heard from the Leader of the Opposition in his speech in reply to the Speech from the Throne. And I say, Mr. Speaker, I'm so sorry that the honourable gentleman is not here. But --(In terjection)-- Yes, I said it last time and I'm going to say it again and again and again until it

224 February 8, 1974 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PAULLEY Con't). . . penetrates the ivory skulls of some of my honourable friends opposite. As far as the Leader of the Liberal Party is concerned I prophesied some time ago that the Liberal Party were doomed to oblivion and that happened. They did make a little bit of a gain.

I appreciate the fact that my honourable friend the Member for Wolseley still has a little bit to learn as far as the rules of the House and I'm sure that his colleague on the front benches now, the Honourable Member for Portage la Prairie, will give him some side lessons in order that he may fulfill capably the position that he holds. Because I held that position for 10 years, Mr.

Speaker, I held it for 10 years, and sometimes it's a pretty difficult posi tion because of the traditional and historical application of the parliamentary system where you have to recognize as a majority in opposition rather than the second party in opposition, and I only trust and hope that the Leader of the Liberal Party if we are to be displaced as a government, which I doubt, that the Leader of the Liberal Party will be able to achieve what I was able to assist in achieving as a lever to get rid of that outfit that at the present time are the second party in this House. Now then, Mr.

Speaker, I do want to make a few references to the speech of the Member for River Heights. A speech which, Mr. Speaker, I've already said in my opinion was a low ebb in this House after 21 years of participation. What were some of his remarks? I refer to page 38 - there are many pages that I could refer to.

I want to start out with a tenor that he created for this new session, a new opportunity for forwarding the progress of Manitoba, and what was one of his opening remarks, and I quote; the tenor and the approach of the Leader of the Opposition: "We must hope that the Honourable Member for Springfield will be unable to do as much damage in his new department as in the old." What an atmosphere, Mr. Speaker, to start a session of the Legislature where we have new members. As far as the old crocks like myself is concerned it doesn't matter a damn does it?

But what an im pression, a man who aspires for leadership, a man who aspires for the premiership of this province should use as an opening in a new session of the Legislature. Mr. Speaker, I repeat, in all my years in this House never did I see, never did I hear such a low approach to the destiny of the Province of Manitoba as that uttered by the absent Leader of the Opposition. And incidentally, Mr.

Speaker, in all of my years since we had a Hansard, I haven't read very many speeches contained in Hansard but I was so amazed that for the first time I believe, at least in the last five years, I took the time out to read what the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition, I may be uncomplimentary to him, I don't know, I don't intend to be. All I in tend is to indicate to the people of Manitoba the type of inept opposition that we had. . . A MEMBER: Garbage. MR. PAULLEY: Yes, garbage. My honourable friend for Lakeside, Mr. Speaker, is so correct when he says that's garbage and that's what it is. MR.

SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. I would hope the Honourable Member for Lakeside would contain himself. If he's looking for something he can probably find it some place else. The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR. PAULLEY: You know, Mr. Speaker, for a moment I was at a loss of words to adequately describd the contribution of the Leader of the Opposition and my honourable friend from Lakeside so aptly describes it as garbage. It is garbage, with one reservation I say that.

That it isn't proper, it isn't in accordance with the normal conduct of this Assembly or any other Assembly for the Leader of the Opposition to come out with such tripe and garbage, which it was. And you, you ought to know better, I try to teach you over the year. What does my honourable friend then go on in.bis speech? And I give him, and I hope he gives to me, credit for reading what he had to say. On page 40 he says, "We would eagerly examine proposals for educational reforms, penal reform.

We would eagerly support measures designed to provide equality for women in the civil service and to eliminate sexes' bias in a great number of provincial statutes." You know, Mr. Speaker, that honourable gentleman and his predecessors were the creators of most of this legislation, and while I agree that it has taken us a little time to sort it out and amend it, they were the authors of it.

A little later in his speech he makes the remark that I'll make a reference to -- and don't blame me, I am now the hallowed white-haired leader of the Conservative Party so don't fault me because it was somebody else previously that brought in these pieces of legislation.

February 8, 1974 225 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PAULLEY Con'

t) My honourable friend then further on Page 40 went on to say, "It costs more to eat today and we don't know if we will have jobs tomorrow." I would suggest to my honourable friend, the Member for River Heights that if he keeps up the same performance as he did in reply to the Speech from the Throne he won't have a job because the people of River Heights will cotton to him, will realize what he is and throw him out of office. On page 41 my honour able friend says that the government has now been in office for four and a half years. It is no longer a new government.

It can no longer shirk responsibilities by pleading inexperience or citing the alleged failures of the Roblin and Weir administrations. This government now has a record of its own; it has had time to devise a program of its own; it had the opportunity to develop and articulate a vision of Manitoba that would be its own. He's right. We have brought a vision to Manitoba that has been accepted by the people of Manitoba and that, Mr. Speaker, is why we're the government today.

My honourable friend the Leader of the Oppos ition and his cohorts attempted to bamboozle the people of Manitoba just about a year ago and the people knew that we were a government fit to govern Manitoba. They knew of the ineptness of Roblin and of Weir, and they were more convinced of the ineptness of the present Leader of the Opposition and rejected him almost totally, really left he, the Member for River Heights to lick his wounds after the last election, and then come out and say, "well after all maybe they should have another term." And I want to say, Mr.

Speaker, to him and to his cohorts in the Conservative Party, we'll have another term and we'll have another term after that and the people of Manitoba will support us and they'll get wise to the Member for River Heights and discard him completely. Even his own colleagues, Mr. Chairman, even his own colleagues in the Conservative Party changed their constitution in allowing him to continue for at least another period of time so that the rowboat would not be rocked. And my Honourable Member for Lakeside knows that.

He knows that full well because he has aspirations; and I don't mean'Izzy aspirations,' He had aspirations for the leadership of the Conservative Party and rejected at least for the time being an effort to lead the Conservatives out of the so-called wilderness, and I suggest that they are going to be in that wilderness for the biblical 40 years, Mr. Speaker, despite the leadership of Lakeside or anyone else. --(Interject ion)-- You know it wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe I should be able to introduce some common sense into the political Conservative Party and it's lacking today. Then, Mr. Speaker, then, Mr.

Speaker, evidence abounds, Mr. Speaker, on every hand that this is a government without a clear purpose, without a clear principle and increasingly this is a government without a guiding hand, unless perhaps the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources. Mr. Speaker, the reason that we are the Government of Manitoba today is from the foundation of the likes of J. S. Woodsworth, J. S. Farmer and Coldwell and the likes.

We had a guiding principle, we had a basic philosophy, that took a long time to achieve I agree, but eventually it did and the people of Manitoba are well served as the result of the foundations of our guiding principles. And I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that the people of Canada would be well served if they would do federally as has been done in Manitoba and Saskatchewan and British Colurilbia because we have a firm foundation.

Not a bunch of buffoonery as is ex hibited by the Conservative Party in the Province of Manitoba but some basic principles of a forward thrust to the well-being of humanity which is so utterly lacking by the Conservative Party here in Manitoba, and also feder:.tlly. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. MR. PAULLEY: So I say, Mr. Speaker, after having listened to the tripe of the Leader of the Opposition at his opening remarks --(Interjection)-- Yes I know my honourable friend from Arthur may not appreciate what is being said at the present time, and I would suggest, Mr.

Speaker, to my honourable friend who has been around here for a fair number of years, it's darned near time his skull was penetrated so that he at least knows the facts of life, that he at least knows what is required for the people of our province. And then, Mr. Speaker, on Page 43 the Leader of the Opposition goes on to say, "why has the government operated in the state of hit and run warfare with its own civil service for the past two years?" Mr.

Speaker, it hasn't been hit and run, but a recognition of the rights of our civil service to meet with government, to meet with the responsible Ministers in government to try and bring about a reasonable and fair association between management

226 February 8, 1974 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PAULLEY Con't) ... and labour, and this is what we have been doing in the progress and in the process of legislation as laid down in the Civil Service Act. All but the rabble, and in this case the rabble, the Conservative Party of Manitoba, are trying to use the civil service in M!nitoba for their own political advantage. We fought for years in opposition, Mr. Speaker, to try and convince the fuddy-duddies on the other side of the House when they were tiE government that an employee of the government should have some rights.

It took a heck of a big fight and, very reluctantly as a result of the endeavours of the New Democratic caucus in opposition, very reluctantly they were dragged into making amendments to the Civil Service Act to at least give the civil service some semblance of rights in employment. And now, because as a result of their legislation, the legislation that they concocted, we have gone through a process - on some disagreement, and I admit that quite frankly -- they're trying and particularly according to utterances of the Member for Swan River -- they are attempting ... MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.

I wonder if I may request of all tte members to con duct their little meetings outside of the Chamber, so that I can hear what is going on. The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR. PAULLEY: They are attempting, Mr. Speaker, to use a process of collective bargaining to depreciate the efforts of this government and to enhance their own position. And I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that the Member for Swan River and the whole of the caboodle of the Conservative Party will fail in their endeavours because people of intelligence will prevail and not the people who adhere to rabblist procedure. --(Interjection)-- Yes, you will overcome. I say to my honourable friend from Lakeside he will only overcome if he is honest, if he is upright and if he is right; and on those three things they will never overcome because they are neither one of the three of them.

And then my honourable friend, and again, and again I am sorry that the Leader of the Conservative Party, the Member for River Heights is not here. He ducks quite frequently. In his speech on Page 44, Mr. Speaker, he says,"It is even more so for its effect on those non political civil servants in the area. Many of them are now operating in an atmosphere of fear, fear that questioning or criticism will place their jobs in jeopardy. It is a deplorable si tuation, Mr. Speaker, one that I would never have believed to occur in this province." Mr.

Speaker, I indicated that at one time I was the Leader of the third party of this House and I recall, Mr. Speaker, that the then Executive Secretary of the Manitoba --(Interjection)- MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Order. A MEMBER: Cool it, cool it, cool it. MR. PAULLEY: I did stay there for many years, but while I was there, Mr. Speaker, I learned and apparently the Leader of the Opposition hasn't learned and neither has the Member for Lakeside. Mr.

Speaker, while I was the Leader of the New Democratic Party I endeavoured on a number of occasions to speak to the Executive Director of the Manitoba Government Employees Association. I met him one day, Mr. Speaker, at the foot of the grand staircase and he said to me; "Hi, Russ" and away he went, I said, "Lord, Harry, won't you talk to me ?" He says, "I'm afraid to be seen talking to you because my job would be in jeopardy by the Conservative Party." And yet, and yet Mr.

Speaker, the Leader of the Conservative Party, the Member for River Heights had the consummate gall to say, talking about criticism and their jobs being in jeopardy because they're talking to somebody else --(Interjection)-- My dear friend from Lakeside, you have a heck of a lot to learn. And that same individual phoned me, Mr. Speaker, and asked me if I would meet him in some --(Interjection)-- dark alley, that's right. You're right. The Member for Birtle-Russell is right.

He said to me, will you meet me in some dark alley because I'm afraid of the Premier of Manitoba, the Minister responsible for the civil servants. And now the Member for River Heights turns around and talks about placing jobs in jeopardy. Then my honourable friend goes on in many other areas as well , Mr. Speaker, he made a few other remarks that I will not refer to at this particular time, but that is what happened, Mr. Speaker, insofar as the civil service were concerned under the previous administration.

My honourable friend then, the Member for River Heights that is, on Page 46 goes on to say: "In the last 60 years, this province has been governed by Conservatives, Liberals Progressives and Liberal-Progressives. Never in all those administrations was the Hydro

February 8, 1974 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PAULLEY Con't) ... . made a political instrument of the government of the day." I on ly wish that someone on that side will take the time out to re ad the record of Hansard. You know, the greatest disse rvice that a conservative did for the Cons ervative Party in Manitoba was when Duff Roblin very reluctantly agreed to the production of a Hansard so that it was placed on the rec ord. I think that was one of the failings of the Conservative 227 Party for the Conservative Party itself. Not for Manitobans , because it's a damn good thing, Mr.

Speaker, that we can go back over Hansard and we can see the record of the Conservative Party in its ten years where they rej ected time after time disclosure of information per taining to Hydro. I re mem ber sitting over wher e the Honourable Member for Souris-Lansdo wne now sits, as Leader of my Party, asking the Minister of Industry and Commerce of that government -- who is not here now, I don't know where he is, I only wish he was , and that's the Honourable Member for River Heights -- for inform ation dealing with the involvement in industry in Manitoba. What was his reply ? In effect, Mr.

Speaker, because we can use language now that we weren't able to use then, his language in that particular day in accor dance with what we're using now would be "none of your damn business" . That was the at titude, and he would not disclose it. Insofar as Hydro is concerned I asked for record s of Hydro, I asked for the possib ility of increases in the Hydro rates. The answer was no, it's none of my business, it's a Crown corporat ion, it will operate the way it wants to operate. We, the government will decide. And yet today, yet today there has n't been a change of hear t, Mr.

Speaker, there hasn' t been a change of heart insof ar as the Conservative Par ty is concerned, but they're attempting to use it as a weapon against this government because we have brought about a si tuation of disclosure. The Honourable Member for Lakeside the other day says the pat man for the Leader of the Conservative Party piled on high a bunch of documents that we have produced in open government, criticizing us for it. You know, Mr .

Speaker, if I had attempted that when I was a leader in Dpposition to stack up on a desk documents re vealing the trrust of government I wouldn't have needed any more than the paper I have in my hand, because that's the type of dis closure that we got from the Conservative Party . And of course the present Leader of the Conservative Party says, Do n't fault us, don't fault us because of the errors and the sins of our ways previously. ' You're not prepared to accept it. I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, notwithstanding that, if they were the government, God forbid, of the Province of Manitoba, they would go back into the same type of rest ri ction that prevailed before. Then Mr . Speaker, my friend goes on to say on Page 46: "T he honourable members who served in the last House will know that during this debate a year ago and ot her oc casions, I voiced alarm at the politicalization of the civil service that has taken place under this govern ment. I have used the word "politica lize" advisedly because we ar e no t witnessing the patron age that is characteristic to some degree of most government.

We cer tainly do have that on a grand scale. But we ar e witnessing somet hing far more insi dious, far more sinis ter, far more destructive to our civil service tradition, we ar e witnessing it is not the legitimate effort of a government to see that the civil serv ice performs for the government, what we are witnessing is an attempt to subvert the civil service by·making it into a service for a New Demo cratic government. " Mr. Speaker, what absolute utter nonsense for a man who presumes to be the leader of a res ponsible party.

I want to re late an instance inso far as politicalizing in the public ser vice, Mr. Speaker. I know of a charming young lady from Tran scona who without the know ledge of her father came into the civil service and obtained a job, and she worked during summer recess at the university in the Department of Industry and Comme rce, headed I be lieve by the prese nt Leader of the Conser vative Party. It was found out that her father happened to have some involvement in the political ar ena in Manitoba.

The next year she applied for the same position that she got a letter of comm endation for, and she didn't receive the job because it was found out that her father , her father was a political prea cher and her job was taken over by a daughter of a Cabinet Minister of the Conservative Party. And also, not only that one daughter, but another daughter as well. Mr. Speaker, I know what of I speak because the charming young lady from Tr anscona was my daughter. Political patronage! What the heaven's name are you talking about? Mr. Speaker, I know my time is just about up.

I know that the opposition have tried and tried and tried to use the civil service and the matter of negotiations between the government

228 February 8, 19 74 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PAULLEY Con't). . . . and the civil service as a weapon, not only against us, but more importantly against the civil service. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I wish to make an announcement. That announcement is that despite difficulties, despite the fact that after we have gone into arbitration in accordance with the Civil Service Act, despite the fact that unfortunately the original chairman of the Arbitration Board passed away and a new one had to be named, it has taken a long time I appreciate - Mr.

Speaker, I wish to announce that the government and the Manitoba Government Employees Association have resolved all outstanding contract items and differences in the

interpretation arising from the arbitration award handed down on December 21st; agreement has been reached unanimously on both the civil service and departmental employees' contracts. All that remains is to review the contract language for both agreements and once this is done I am prepared to recommend to my colleagues in Cabinet that they approve of the two contracts. In the arbitration procedures both sides have followed the rules laid down by law. However, in this case procedures resulted in an unfortunate delay in getting the awarded back pay to Manitoba's 12, 000 civil service.

Part of the back pay was issued on January 25th. I have asked, and I'm speaking personally, that I have asked the departmental payroll personnel to expedite the implementation of the new agreement so that pay cheques reflecting the new rates of pay and the final retroactive pay ments can be issued as soon as possible. We hope to have the civil service pay cheques re flect the new rates of pay the first part of March and the final portion of the retroactive pay sent out to civil service in the latter part of March. I make that announcement, Mr.

Chairman, because we have consummatE'l�. an agreement now, and I want to appeal to the Opposition particularly, the so-called Official Opposition to stop harping at the civil service - by and large, they're all doing their job and fulfilling a useful purpose for the people of Manitoba. I ttank you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity. . . . . . Continued on next page

February 8, 1974 229 THRONE SPEEC H MR. SP EAKER: The Honourable Member for Swan River. MR. JAMES H. BILTO N (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, I find it rather a difficult task to follow the old war ho rse today, but I do want to compliment him for his kind remarks at the beginning of his speech and rec iting some things that many members of the House know little of or wili e•1er know of. Sir, when a gentleman such as he passes from the picture as many have gone before with that many years service, it's always a considered loss to the House.

He and I don't see eye to eye from tim e to time, but nevertheless I respect him for what he is and what he has done and the service he has given to the peop le of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, may I join with so many others in congra tulating you on your appointment, knowing only too well the many com plexities of your pos ition, and having spoken to you many times in this way I feel that at thi s juncture it's suffice to say, may all your pr oblems be little ones. Sir , I congra tulate the Deputy Speaker on his reappointment, and I look forward to working with him as we go through the sessi on.

I also congratulate the mover and the seconder, and to me in both directions, Sir, they left little to be desired. And to all the new members that are elected to this 30th Legislative Ass embly, I have no advice whatsoever other than to wish them well in their efforts to maintain and pr otect the pr inciples of democ racy and do their part to resp ect the Ch air. I repeat that, Mr. Speaker, at all times to respect the Chair, be cause without that respect we have nothing but a sham bles.

That Chair, Sir, that you oc cupy, that we pay respect to, is the mainstay of the decorum of this House, and that I would say to the new members, and certainly to some of the old members when things get a little up tight. Well, Mr. Sp eaker, listening to His Excellency in his annual message I could hardly believe my ears. I made doubly sure of what he said by reading it that evening. I was looking for a str enuous declaration, Mr. Speaker, by this government, who in the beginning, of course, pr epared that speech for His Excellency to recite to us.

The priority problem in my mind that I was looking for was the ris ing cost of living, that is the necessities of life: food, clothing, heat, light and shelter, and many on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, have been endeavour ing these last few days to bring out into the open these facts. I'm sure the honourable gentlemen opposite that are governing this pr ovince are just as conscious of these things as we are, and all I am endeavouring to do is to emphas ize on behalf of the people that I represent that so me thing must be done. The word "inflation", Mr.

Speaker, was mentioned only once, on page 3, and it was in the interest of low income families. I have no fault to find with that. No mention, Sir , was made of relief for the middle income group who carry the burden of pr oviding the wherewithal and the means to pr ovide the money to take care of the needs of the low income group. No mention was made throughout the Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker, of any pr opo sal by this government to fight inflation. I see them giving the back of their hand to the pr oviders of the tax dollars of this pr ovince.

Sir , the middle income group, the people that pr ovide it, are taking a beating of their lives and they are appealing through their elected representatives for some relief, and some relief must be found. Mr. Speaker, the speech talks glibly of the ris ing economic activity and goes on to quote factory ship ments and the like in a total of 1, 300, 000, 000 last year.

No mention, Sir, is made of relief for the people who pay the high cost of the pr oduction through which increased millions in sales tax flows into the trea sury, and the increased wages that must be found in order to provide the ser vices which, Sir, are skyrocketing. Mention was made of increased expenditures to be supplied for the installation of water and sewer generally throughout the province. These and other services, Sir, are all well and good and I applaud them. Now, Sir, if I may, I would like to get a little parochi al and speak of the people that I represent.

You have heard me, Sir, many times recite the value of the Swan River Valley to the economy of Manitoba. I'm not going to burden you with that today, but rather one group of people that have suffered at the hands of nature. My people in Cowan, Mr. Sp eaker, suffered flood damage last year beyond their ability to sustain.

I have appealed, Sir , by telegraph in June of last year to the Premier, who immediately sent in a task force to look into iL From that day to th is, Sir , this is my Co wan file right here, and anything I quote to you from this cor respondence, Sir, there's no need for me to table it because it is sca ttered around the various department of the government now, and the only reason I'm bringing it up is that the mo st importa nt piece of corres pondence, at least in my opinion, at my hand still is to be

230 February 8, 19 74 THRONE SPEECH (MR. BILTO N cont'd) ... . answered and it's imperative, Sir, that it be answered and anr- swered soon, favoura ble to those people. I know it may be said that they should have covered it with insurance, they should have foresa w this damage probably. Here, Sir, is a petition signed by some 30-odd farmers that suffered some $130, 000 worth of damage. In many instances the se eding was done and completely washed out, and the land so inundated, Sir, that they could not get back in time to grow a crop last year.

Need I sa y to you, Sir, what it has done to this economy, the economy of this community? A small community it isn't the best of farmland but neverthel ess these people have se ttled there, sometimes two and three generations. They've maintained a livelihood and they should be recognized, Mr. Speaker. Here, Sir, is the report of the task force which was provided by the government, indic ating obviously that these people had sustained this damage and that something might be done toward the drainage and what have you, to avoid it in the futur e. That, Sir, on June 19th of last year.

On October 8th, Sir, I hold in my hand a letter that I attempted to put together to put before the Premier of this province the situation as I saw it, drawn from the opinions and dis cussions with these people that had suffered because of this flood. And in that, I have quoted the amount of money that would be required to only partially, Sir, assist these people to meet the oncoming se ason and the see ding, which is only just around the corner, $130, 000. 00.

In the course of events, Sir, this was referred to ottawafor federal aid and, after some discussion and some correspondence, the Minister of Agriculture in the Federal Gover nment went on to explain that the only way any help could be given to an area such as this is that if the province in its wisdom declared the area a disaster area. He goes on to say in his lettEr, just partially, if the disaster is widespread and of such magnitude as to se riously affect the economy of the area, establish an emergen cy assi stance program to alleviate some of the financial difficulti es.

Anyway I followed th is, Sir, and endeav oured to place befo re the government in no uncertain terms that something should be done for these people. The letter I referred to earlier, Mr. Speaker, that I have not rece ived a reply to, is dated January 15th and it was addressed to the Minister of Agriculture, and I know that he's a busy man and that getting ready for the sess ion was of considerabl e importance, but what I want to know, Mr. Speaker, and what I am bringing this matter up for, is that these people are waiting ... MR. SP EAKER: Order please. The Honourable Minister state his point of order. HON .

SAMUEL USKIW (Minister of Agriculture) (Lac du Bonnet): The honourable mem ber alleges that he did not receive a letter from me in reply to his letter. As I can recall it, Mr. Speaker, I did se nt him a letter quite some time ago and I suspect it's because of his move to Winnipeg that he hasn't had a chance to read it. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Swan River. MR. BILTON: I must of course, Mr.

Speaker, accept the Minister's word but I was at home last weekend and there was no letter from the Minister at that time, and if he sent it prior to that time I would ask him to see that I get a copy without delay, and I hope, I hope it's a favour able reply for these people. I hope with all my heart that the Minister will deal with my people in Cowan as he dealt with his potato growers in 1970 who were not covered by in surance. He pleaded whilst over here in the opposition, Mr. Speaker, for his potato growers in 1969 and the government of the day sa id no. No.

If we open the floodga tes we've got to give to others too. They were elected in 1969 and in 1970 there was money put into the Estimates to take care of those potato growers retroactive, Sir. Retroactive. I'm not asking retroactive to last June, I'm asking for relie f now while the snow is on the ground. Give those people some confidence that somebody cares. Sir, there is money by the millions for such programs as Live It Up for Fun in the Province of Manitoba. Live it up for fun.

And all these people that I'm repres enting are talking about today is asking for help, financial help to maintain their fami lies and keep in production to continue to add to the economy of this province, and not a red ce nt as yet. Money for community clubs, money to clean up garbage dumps, money to pick up beer bottles, rec reation clubs, and so it goes on. Money fo r the zoo, Sir, money for the zoo and the Japanese gardens . And here are my people wondering where their next nickel is coming from because of the floods .

I just }?urn in the squandering of money like this when the need is so great in other areas. These people struggled all their lives on not high quality ground�as I

February 8, 19 74 23 1 THRONE SPE ECH (MR. BILTON cont'd) .... have said before, but not in the habit of asking for anything. But now, Si r, they need help and it's urgent. It was mentioned in the Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker, that improvement is going to be made in dental health in northern Manitoba. This I have talked of over the years and I compli ment the government for its efforts. There is another recommendation, Mr.

Speaker, in the Northern Task Force Report of 1970 , for the provision of senior citizens ' accommodation for people of native heritage in the north, and I see no mention of that yet. -- (Interjection)-- That is not Communism, that's just plain damned good common sense. A MEMBER: That's what you said. MR. BILTON: When? At what ? You're not in here half the time, you don't know what I am saying. -- (Interjection)-- Sa y that again. Sa y that again. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The honourable member will address his remarks to the Chair. A MEMBE R: I've got to catch my bus tonight . MR.

BILTON: There is another thing I noticed too, Mr. Speaker, that the Information Service in this province I remember so well, as you remember too .. the lambasting the govern ment of the day used to get on the Information Se rvice. My God, they never dreamed of what we've got here today. Added to this, Mr. Speaker, we see mushrooming all over the province, separate endeavours at public expense, a little machine here and a little machine there and a little machine somewhere else, and thousands of dollars to pay salaries.

Certainly put these people to work, but not on propaganda machines as far as I'm concerned, and I'll fight it to the death, and the sooner they stop this the better. These reports that they pour out of here week after week the press up here use with discretion. But these other people, whether they're ordered to do it or not, these pamphlets and papers and gazettes and what have you are just full of the stuff. If they didn't get it they'd have nothing to put in it. So I say this ought to be stopped, Mr. Speaker. This is a public expense that we can do without.

I listened to what the Minister had to say with regard to the civil service, and of course it is my purpose to speak on behalf of this Pa rty with regard to the civil service. And what I had intended to say I am going to withhold, Mr. Speaker, in view of what has been said, in the hopes that any contribution I make on behalf of this Party insofar as the civil service is con cerned will only -- I will only endeavour to better their lot and certainly not to depreciate it in any way. It's not my purpose, Mr. Speaker, to recite or go over what my Leader had to say.

All I want to relate to you is that as far as I'm concerned I agree with his comments entirely, and I will do my level best to support him in every way and those of my colleagues in our endeavours to be critical of the government when criticism is necessary. But you know, Mr. Speaker, we've been talking about inflation and we've been suggesting a reduction in the sales tax. For my part, I ask the government simply to look into all areas of spending and economize wherever possible, be it sales tax or what have you. That's all I'm asking them to do. You know, I think we're in a tax jungle myself.

Nobody knows what's going on. I have a case of a dear old lady, 78 years of age, Mr. Speaker; she's a widow and she has a little bit of land and there's a gravel pit on it. And she sells the odd yard of gravel. She has to collect sales tax and she's sending in a cheque to the Minister for i))l. 58 a month. And by God, she was late one month and she was penalized for $5. 00, the minimum. -- (Interjection)-- Yes, sir. Oh yes. I believe this dear lady, I do. -- {Interjection)-- Mr. Minister, if you would be good enough to wait I'll give you the answer.

I compliment you for being human enough for cancelling out the penalty, but that little old lady sending you in a postal note, she trips off to the post office every month to send you $1. 58 of sales tax for a few yards of gravel. -- (Interjection)-- I know, but damn it all, let's use some common sense. You need that $1. 84 like I need a hole in the head. And I compliment my colleague from Roblin. I think he did a workmanlike job.

He was speaking from experience across the counter and I think that the remarks that he made and the comments that he made should have been taken a little more seriously than they were because, as has been said, school teachers, three lawyers, three college professors including the Premier hi mself, never -- well, with the odd exception, with the odd exception, there isn't one of them darkened their hand in earning a dollar . . . except Mr. Deputy Speaker up here.

Sir, I trust you pay enough attention to God's vineyard and do what you're supposed to do, and don't do some of the things you say and do in this House out there or the Lord will never forgive you.

232 February 8, 1974 THRONE SPEECH (MR. BILTON cont'

d) Mr. Speaker, there's just one or two more thoughts I would like to leave with you, and I can only assu me, Sir, that this government is not accepting the facts of life. I feel, Sir, that we're witnessing in this country a bloodless revolution, when in time the people will be subser vient, and I mean subservi ent in every way to the government inste ad of the gove rnment being subservi ent to the people. As true as I stand here, if we go on at the pace that we're going now, this is going to happen and it'll be a sorry mess. It will be a big worry, and what is it?

Four, six, eight hundred years of parli amentary procedure and all it has stood for, stood the test of time, will go down the drain. I was interested in what my honourable friend from Logan had to sa y about the miners in Britain. Sir, I was brought up in Doncaster; I went to sch ool with sons of miners and at that time those sons of miners were leaving sc hool at ten and twelve and going down and working in the mine with their fat hers. It was traditional. A MEMBER: What were you doing? MR. BILTON: It was traditional, Sir. If you're not interested - be patient. MR. SPE AKER: Order please. MR .

BILTON : It was the fa ther's purpose, Sir, to pick the coal and it was the son's job to take it in wheelbarrows to the head where the shaft was. And I want to assure you, Sir, and assure the Honourable Member from Logan, that I believe those days have pretty well gone fo rever. The British people, Sir, not the capitalists, the British people have owned those mines, and if in all those years impTovements have not been made, who's to blame but the people themselves ? But I believe, Sir - I haven't been back there for many many years - I believe, Sir, that the mines have been mechanized.

My friend from Flin Flon probably can elaborate on what I am attempting to sa y. And, Sir, as far as the miners are concerned, certainly they deserve more than they're getting and God bless every one of them, but, Sir, there 's a principle involved here and I think Mr. Heath has said to the nation, either the elected repres entatives rule or unions will rule this nation, and I beli eve, Sir, that if Mr. Heath wins this election, as I'm sure he will, once more it will be witness to the whole world that democracy is stronger than a lot of the rabble that we might have if it goes otherwise. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. PHILIP M. PE TURSSON (Wellington): Mr. Speaker, I wish to join in in this debate, add my few thoughts to what has gone before, but first let me offer my congratulations to you on your re- election to the offi ce of Speaker. It's an office of responsibility and honour and, having been given the unanimous assent of this Legislature, it is doubly an office of honour. It is recognition of your ability and your record as a Speaker during the last Ses sion.

It speaks well of the confidence that the members have in your wise and able conduct of our proceedings And to the Deputy Speaker who has just taken his place, I express the sa me se ntiment and congratulate him on his re-appointment. I know he will carry out his duties in the same effec tive manner that distinguished his presiding over meetings during the last session.

In addition to welcoming the Speaker and the Deputy, I would wish to speak a word of welcome to the Deputy Cl erk, Andy Anstett, and wish him all of the best, and express the hope that he will enjoy the experience of sitting here with us and listening to the deliberations and carrying out his duties in connection with the office. To the members elected last June and particularly to the members who are sitting here for the first time, I add my welcome to the welcome that has already been extended to them by previous speakers.

Here in the Legisla ture they will find a differe nt kind of life from that to which they have been accustomed; although they will still continue to live their lives outside of the Legis lature, inside the Legisla ture it will be some thing that they have not previously experienced.

The life style that they will find here is a sort of a new dimension given but to the few who have been sent here by the electo rs , those who have entrusted to them the important business of governing this province in accordance with their understanding and their ability and their recognition of the needs and wants of the people whom they represent. A se at in this Legisla ture, whether on the government side or on the opposi tion side, is a a trust and is to be held as a trust for the good and welfare of all of the citizens of Manitoba.

We may have differences of opinion and these differences may sometimes be expressed in hard words harshly spoken, but .it is not or should not be in the form of pers onal assa ult on any member, because each person is but the vehi cle by which views and ideas are prese nted here

February 8, 19 74 233 THRO N E SPE ECH (MR. PE TURSSO N cont'd) .... according to the indivi dual 's best understanding and greatest ability. Each man is expected to give of his best, and no matter how much we disagree with his position it is for us to respect him and not to condemn as a person no matter how much we may disagree with and condemn his ideas or his utterances.

That has, to a great degree, been the spirit of this Legislature, sometimes fairly well obscured but nevertheless, even after some of the most bitter debates, that is the spirit that has been revived, and the members have found it possible to adjourn to the members ' lounge after a meeting here, over a cup of coffee together in good fellowship, in reconciliation sometimes, and understanding, recognizing that views strongly held must be strongly expressed as befits free men in a free country. Now let that be my sermon for the day. A MEMBER: Amen. MR.

PETURSSON: I know that the new members will quickly catch on to the ways of life as represented in this Chamber and in this building, and will in most cases come to find friend liness and understanding, sometimes even in the most unlikely places. But I wish to devote myself briefly to some of the criticisms that have been expressed in relation to the Throne Speech, and then to make reference to another matter which I regard and that a sizable number of Manitobans regard as an important upcoming event in the history of this Province. But first I wish to make brief reference to the election.

Other members have referred to it with a description of their constituencies and they can all be justly proud of representing the Province of Manitoba through the constituencies in which they were elected and given the con fidence of the people. My constituency, the Constituency of Wellington, being in Winnipeg in the west end, has pretty much the same interests, the same problems, the same advantages and the same disadvantages as adjoinin g constituencies have.

It is made up of a heterogeneous population of many different national origins, of many racial backgrounds, many many religious affiliations, There are those who have lived in the constituency from early times and there are those who are comparative newcomers, and I have come to know many of them personally and count them among my best friends.

As a matter of fact, I have good reason for having come to know so many of them simply because of the length of time that I have lived in this constituency, in the constituency of .Wellington, having lived there almost continuously since 1913 and resided in my present home for the past 28 years and it is set down in the middle of the constituency. But strange things sometimes happen during election campaigns. One of these strange things is that both of the opponents, both of those who contested the election against me, were not residents of Wellington at all but came in from the outside.

One came from Fort Garry, and the other one, I think his home is in Assiniboia. Both came with the avowed purpose of imprOving the life style of the people in Wellington constituency. The Progressive Conservative candidate's claim to having an interest in Wellington was that he had been born there almost 50 years ago. The other interest was based on the fact of his ancestral origin. He claimed an Icelandic background, and I believe him in that respect. But he claimed also blood relation ship to a man who he claimed had been Canada's greatest statesman.

He referred to a statue that stands on the Legislative grounds which he said was a statue of his great-uncle, Canada's greatest statesman. He announced this on his election cards; he announced it on a brochure; he announced it in the West End Guide which has distribution pretty widely through Wellington, and in all of these things he pointed out that he was the great-nephew of Canada's greatest statesman. And who was this great man, somebody may ask? The Pro gressive Conservative candidate named him on his cards and on his literature. The name of this man was Jon Sigurdsson.

If the members have never heard of that name before in con� nection with Canada's greatest statesmen, either your education has been neglected or this is simply another example of the stupidities and the exaggerations which some Progressive Conservative candidates indulge themselves in. Of course it lost him votes --I don't have to hand these things in do I? This is a card. Jon Sigurdsson, the greatest statesman of Canada, who was the grand uncle of this man who contested the Conservative seat; this is a copy of the Guide.

It says, "A statue of his great uncle, J on Sigurdsson, Canada's greatest statesman, is on the northeast side of the Legislative grounds, " and there was a picture of the -- oh yes, a picture of the candidate and a picture of the statue, Canada's greatest statesman. Of course, making this claim lost hi m votes because there isn't a person of Icelandic descent living in the west end that didn't know that Joh Sigurdsson was not Canada's greatest statesman but Iceland's greatest statesman. He never

234 February 8, 197 4 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PE TURSSON cont'd) .... even saw Canada, but he was the instrument by which Iceland won its independe nce from Denmark in 187 4 and Iceland was granted its independe nce and its own constitution in that year by virtue of what this man did, Iceland's greatest statesman. And his effort s culminated in 1944 with Iceland becoming a Republic free of all foreign involvements.

Then, when it was proposed that a statue of Jon Sig urds son be raised, in the grounds facing the parliament building in Reykjavik in Iceland, the people here of Icelandic desce nt requested that two statues be cast and that one be sent to Winnipeg, and that was done and the statue was erected on these grounds in June 1923, and it now stands prominently on these grounds and was the first statue of many statues to follow it to be raised here on these grounds. It stands there in memory of a great man, but certainly not of Canada's greatest statesmen.

In fact, he never saw Canada, as I said; he died in 18 79, and that was only four years after the first Ice landic pioneers settled here in Winnipeg and at Girnli. This episode reminds me of a story of two Icelanders--! can tell stories about Ice landers- who both claimed desc ent from the sa me ancient Swedi sh king. The Icelanders were des cended from Swedi sh Vikings , Norwegian Vikings, and they're very interested in tracing their geneo logical background. They both claimed desce nt from this sa me Swedi sh king and then they se t about trying to prove which one was more closely related than the other.

And one sa id, "It may be as you say, that we are both desce nded from this Swedish king, but I can trace my line of desc ent direc tly back to him through the male line, directly through the male line, and you only through the femal e. " And the other man replied to him, "Yes, but the female is always surer.

" I was going to make reference to the Liberal candidate, having disposed of the Conserv-,· ative, but I wish to put in a little mention of information that I have about another constituency, about Rockwood and the reference made to it by the Minister of Finance yesterday when he mentioned - or the day before - a very gentle old lady who was fearful that if the NDP govern ment were to be elected they would confi sca te her church. There is a church in Rockwood, an Icelandic church, and the oldest Icelandic church that is still standing in Manitoba.

A desire was expresse d by some of the residents near Glenboro that this church be taken over by the government and that it be se t aside as an historic site and be marked accordingly as being the oldest Icelandic church still standing. It's at a place called Grund - G. r u n d - it's an Icelandic word, and the Parks Department, the Historic Sites Department, agreed to taking this church over and they were going to renovate it and they're going to set a flag on it honouring the memory of the people who built the church in the first place.

But the takeover of that church by' the government would include the provision of a caretaker to look after the property surrounding the church and the church building itself, but it would be at the request of the people and not in spite of the people's desires. The people are asking for it, and so if there's any takeover it's not by the desire on the part of this government to take over a great number of churches but simply to carry out the wishes of individuals in various constituencies.

Now with refere nce to the Liberal candidate, I needn't dwell on his fortunes particularly in my constituency, because he received fewer votes than the Progressive Cons ervative candidate did, and both of them divided a minority of the number of votes between them. I managed to gain 53 and some perc entage point of the total vote. But, like the Conser vative candidate, he overdid his campaigning and lost votes as a result.

Pe ople bec ame tired of un loading their mail boxes every morning, pulling out all the cards that came around - there was a new one every day for many successive days - and people began to despair of ever having their mail boxes cleared of what they were beginning to call junk, and some of them were sa ying, "To hell with that guy; he' s spending too much money; I wouldn't vote for him anyway and he's just cluttering up the mail boxes and the lands cape with a great deal of literature that isn't really saying anything. " And so he lost votes.

Now these were both nice fellows , they were just not wanted in Welli ngton constituency, and people indicated that in no uncer tain terms . --(Interjection)-- He's the presid ent of the Winnipeg Supply and Fuel--(I nterjection)- Oh, he calls himself an Independent, he's a GGG guy--(Interjecti on)-- Pardon? A MEMBER: He's Independent. He wasn't Liberal. MR . SP EAKER: Order, please. MR. PETU RSS ON: No, he wasn't even a Liberal candidate. MR. SP EAKER: Would the honourable member address the Chair, please.

February 8, 19 74 235 THRONE SP EECH MR. PETURSSON : I'm accepting a little assi stance on the side. But now for some criti cism s that were made, mainly by the Leader of the Opposition. read so mewhere that it isn't protocol for backbenchers to level criti cism s at leaders of the opposin g parties or otherwi se and that- -( lnterj ection) -- Pardon? Just their own perha ps. But backbenchers are allowed to criticize backbenchers and the opposites are allowed to criticize the Cabinet Ministers, but backbenchers can't criticize-- so mebody has introduced a pecking order in relationship to the Legislature.

I consider it a little stupid and a little ridiculous, and I don't feel that I have to be muzzled by that kind of protocol, so I thought I might take the liberty of making a few bri ef references to some of the voluble and vicious criticisms, the fault finding that was made by the Leader of the Opposition who tried to indicate the fallacy and, if I may use the word, the stupidity of hi s charges. Let the honourable member - and I wish he were here - keep in mind that for 100 years the government of Manitoba alternated between Liberal and Conser vative. For 100 years.

There was a short period in which Progressives controlled, they were the government, Farmer-Progr essive, and then there was a merger of parties during a certain national contingency. But the prese nt government has been in power four years, and let me rem ind the Honourable Leader of the Opposition that during that four year period that this government has been in power, more, far more has been done for the people of Manitoba than in any si milarly shor t period during the past 100 years when the Liberals and Cons ervatives alternated in power.

The Opposition si mply cannot point to any simil arly short period in which they did even equally as well, let alone better. The 'Leader of the Opposition urges greater openness in government and cries large tears about the imagined flaws in this government, but just let him remember that he was a member, a Cabinet Minister in a government that became notorious for its complete lack of opennes1", its refusal to give information, provide details about ventures and policies that were of vital public interest, and during this same period he and his government was selling the province down the river.

Never in 100 years has the governm ent of Manitoba been more open, more ready to give information, to open its books , to discuss matters of vital concern, than this pr esent government has been. To suggest otherwi se is misrepres entation of the basest kind. The Leader of the Opposition delves into matters of the civil service and conjures up all kinds of strange things. He must be wearing spectacles that blind him to what he does not want to see and to distort the im age of what he does see, causing him to hallucina te in many stra nge wa.ys.

Thus he makes charges of a decline in morale, of an atmosphere of hostility, of a rampant spi rit of suspicion and fear among the civil service. He uses such terms as insidious, sin ister, destructive, vicious, unreasonable, unfair and so on and so on. His search for words of vituperation must wear out his dictionary. I would suggest that he allows the cadence of such language to waft him off into an unreal never-never land of self-deception.

He speaks of an atmosphere tha t he had known during earlier times and that he was familiar with when the Conser vatives took over from the Liberals, and that the Liberals experienced after their takeover from the C'i)nservatives that had preceded them down through the years. The atmosphere that he describes is one that came to be expected periodically during the 100 years of alternating Cons ervative and Liberal governments, each time that the government changed hands.

But now in this day the honourable leader is incapable of picturing a sit uation which could possibly be different from the one that he himself had tra ditionally come to expect. He wants to see suspicion, fear, hostility and all of the other emotions that he conjures up, and wanting to see them through some act of self-hypnosis, he sees them.

Som ehow he cannot understand a situation where, as there is now, actually less fear, less backbiting, less suspicion, and at the sa me time a greater sens of security, greater strength, more confidence, greater dedication, brighter hopes for the future than in any tim e during the term of office of the last government or the governments before that. He cannot believe it himself and so he persists in his wild accusa tions, but never once does he give any concrete evidence of what he charg es the ;;overnment with. He gives no names, he cites no examples, gives no incidents, no facts.

He shies away from all of that and makes accusations ; he lets his imagination run wild and accepts what he im agines to be fact. I say he shies away from facts . With a very sm all addition to the word "shies", we could use another word. Eh? -- (Interjecti on)-- I don't think I should say it. In listening to him I wondered to myself just how long his leadership could last, and here again hi s im agination comes into play, If he were to look at his position realistica lly,

236 February 8, 19 74 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PE TURSSON cont'd) .... he would realize that his position is not very se cure. He would do well to every once in a while look over his shoulder s. There are those behind him, behind him and beside him, who covered his office; it is si mply the bravado of ignorance, of the ignorance of his true position that gives him the temerity to regard his leadership as in violable and secure. He puts on a brave front but he should know that he is in real trouble. There are those in his group who at the drop of a hat would reach for the reins of off ice that he now fills.

How many in his caucus will stand up and be counted as giving their leader unswerving loyalty and support, I don't know. How many would give him assurance of leader ship se curity, I don't know, but I wonder whether he doesn't sometimes experience a peculiar cre epy feeling at the base of his neck when he turns suddenly in his se at and catches greedy eyes staring at him, covetous eyes , envious eyes, je alous eyes and evil eyes-- (Interjection)- Evil, yes. A MEMBER: It's a bad word. MR . PE TURSSON : In his most realistic moments he must wonder when he is going to be dealt the final stroke.

Probably from the Member at Lakeside, probably by the Member from Riel, probably from behind and in the back, I don't know, and I place $5. 00 in my pocket to say that he will not lead his Party through another election, and if anybody wants to t ake me up on that, even at odds I'd be quite prepared to--any one I say, not the whole bunch. But now for the Liberal group, hanging on tenuously as a Party in this House. The sa me is pretty much true.

Three of the five members are in a very precarious position, two of them sitting in this House by virtue only of less t!J.an a five-vote majority, and I'm exaggerating at that; one with a majority of only 50 votes . And the day before yester day it se emed to me that I heard the knell toll for the pres ent Liberal leadership, as the sound of a new voice rang out loud and strong in this Chamber, the voice of, is it inconceiva ble, the voice of perhaps the next leader of the Liberal Party. Also is it inconceivable that the Liberal leadership will have passed into other hands before the next election?

Do I dare to wager on that also? I'm asking the question. If not, why not? These are interesting spe culations, Mr. Speaker. But now I wish for a few moments to turn to other things. Forget the battle for leader ship in the old line parties and let them struggle with that themselves and on their OWl . They're quite capable of disposing of their leaders as they have done before. During the past few years there's been a plethora of centennial cele brations here in Canada.

Last summer the Queen re marked on the number of centennials that she had attended at that time, beginning with the Canadian centennial, the centennial of Confederation in 1967, and then Manitoba's centennial in 1970 , the ce ntennial of British Columbia in 1971, and last year the centennial of Prince Edward Island's entry into Confederation, and the Queen joked that when we ran out of centennials she would probably not be invited back for quite some time to come.

I don't know whether she will grace Winnipeg with her presence this coming summer or not, when Winnipeg observes its centenary, but of course she would be a welcome guest as she was in 1970. It se ems almost natural that in a land that began to develop as Canada did 100 years ago, that there should have been a great number of firsts in its early beginnings, and that the annivers ary should now be remembered and marked with suitable ceremony.

I wish, therefore, at this time to bring to the attention of the members still another centenary that has some interesting and somewhat unusual aspects to it. --(Interjection)-- No, not quite. It goes just a little bit, Mr. Sp eaker, beyond my memory but not very far beyond. It has to do with the one and only occasion of colonial government having existed not only in Manitoba but in Canada. That government existed for 13 years and was esta blish ed under the Government of Canada by people from Iceland who se ttled on the shores of Lake Winnipeg in 1875.

The plans are now well on the way fo r the obser vance of the centennial of that first permanent Icelandic se ttle ment in Canada, and one unusual aspect of this se ttlement is that in 1875 it was outside of the boundaries of Manitoba. The northern boundary of Manitoba at that time extend.ed only to Boundary Creek, which runs through Winnipeg Beach. Beyond that were the Northwest Territories, which later came to be known in that area as the Keewatin Territori es .

It was by arrangement with the Government of Canada that the group of people that came from Icela nd that year were given a tract of land on the shores of Lake Winnipeg extending for 36 miles along the lakeshore from Boundary Cr eek to Hecla Isla nd, and including the is land and extending 10 or 12 miles inland west from the lake. The group settling there was

February 8, 19 74 237 TH RONE SPEECH (MR. PETURSSON cont'd) .... to be self-governing by suggestion by the Ca nadian Govern ment, and that was unique in the history of this country ; it hadn't happened before and it has not happened since. The first settlers arrived in Winnipeg in October, 18 75, comin g by barge down the Red River from a disem barking point in Minnesota to which they had been transported from Halifax by train.

They came to Winnipeg on October 11 and then continued on down to the lake, again by barge and drawn by a small tugboat, and landed on October 21st at Willow Point as winter was setting in. This area was at that time com pletely uninhabited and the settlers had to st art from sc ratch. They suffered much hardship during that winter, which was an unusually cold one. A number of children died and many adults suffered from various illnesses. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member has five minutes . MR. SPE AKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I'm almost finish ed, By February, 1877 , the local government had been set up.

That was a year and two or three months after they had arrived there. Four district councils had been organized and a colony council had been formed. A sc hool had already been established and within that first year a publication of a newspaper had been begun. That particular paper lasted for a few years but then in Winnipeg in 1886 another paper was set up, Icelandic language paper, which has published continuously as a weekly from that time down to this very date. The colony council had as its responsibility road building, sanitation, fire protection, socia l welfare.

In 1876, the year after they settled there, a second and a much larger group arrived, numbering in all about 1, 200 people, and they quickly found homestea ds for settlement and friendship from those who were there and leadership also.

From that beginning the whole lakeshore area from Winnipeg Beach to Riverton and including Hecla Island became developed, and so successful had the self-government experiment been that for several years after the boundaries of Manitoba had been extended beyond that Boundary Cr eek limit in 1881, several years after the boundaries had been extended to include the settlement, the government continued on in its original form by agreement of the government until 1886 when it then became a part of the province-wide munipipal governmental system. Icelandic im migrants had made earlier settlements than on Lake Winnipeg.

For example, bri efly, in Nova Scotia in 1872 and at Muskoka in Ontario 1873, in Wisconsin in the United States, on Washington Island and so on, but the main settlement and the first perm anent settlement was on the shores of Lake Winnipeg and the centre was named Gimli , a name taken from the Icelandic sag as meaning the home of the gods. It must have been anything but -- had anything but a sim ilarity to the home of the gods when they spent the first winter there. And this has been the main centre of the Icelandic settlement in North America.

Many have sc attered across the continent but Manitoba is still the largest concentration of people of Icelandic origin outside of Iceland itself, and next year, in 1975, the people of Icelandic descent from all over the continent will converge on Winnipeg and on Gimli to observe the passage of 100 years since the time of th eir settlement there. A centennial com mittee has been organized and is hard at work with plans to make the occasion as auspicious and as meaningful as the event deserves. Over the years the descendants have taken their place in public and pri vate life, both of the province and nationally.

They will continue to prove themselves worthy of their heritage, worthy of the land in which they have made their home. That concludes what I have to say at this time, Mr. Speaker. I thank you for your endurance and I thank the members for listening. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia. MR . PATRICK: Thank you, Mr . Speaker, I wish to make my contribution on the Speech at this time. I know that mm h has been already sa id and we start sounding repetitious but I will try not to bore the House too much and perhaps I can cover some new ground. Mr .

Speaker, I believe that the people of this province and even many of us in the House had great expectations from the government, and after four and a half years we're some what perhaps less --(Interjecti on) -- No, that's true. We're less dis enchanted, or we're very much dis enchanted, Mr. Sp3 aker, because those expectations have quickly sort of disappeared, because Mr. Speaker, the problems we've had here four and a half or five years ago we still have them today.

We still have the housing problem; we still have to push the Minister of Labour who, when he sat on this side he had, you know, all the solutions and answers, we still have to pry and push the Minister of Labour to bring in the type of labour legislation, the

238 February 8, 19 74 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PATRICK cont'd) .... portable pension plan, to upgrade the civil servi ce legislation, to bring in the 40 -hour work week. So much of this has not been done. The Minister has to be pried and pushed. So re ally, after four and a half years you would have expected or one would have expected to have seen these things happen.

We have the ho spital problems and the per capita income in the City of Winnipeg has not kept pace with some of the other cities in Canada In fact, in the last five years, or four years, it has dropped consid erably from some 51st position to 57th according to the Income Tax Green Book. Now we also know that in 1969 the average Winnipeg worker was receiving some $16. 00 less than the national average. To day he's receiving so mething like $23. 00 less than the national average, and the point that I'm trying to make and not to say that the government hasn't done anything.

Sure the government has done consi derable but to say that they have- when they sat on this side they had ready-made solutions for everything. I say they have fallen much short, Mr. Speaker, much short of what has to be done. In the ar ea of regional development, the sa me thing. In the constituency I know of one of the member 's constituents in the backbench on the government side ther e is contro versy about a sch ool being built in one town and all four towns, which is McCr eary, Alonsa, Glenella and Amaranth, they're all concern ed.

Every single town is concerned about the population dropping in every one of those towns . So again the government has fallen down consi derably as far as the regional development is concerned in this province. But, Mr. Sp eaker, before I get into my re marks, it is also customary in this House when one takes

part in the Throne Speech debate that we congratulate you, the Speaker, and I wish to continue that custom, to pay respe ct to you as the guardian and protector of the rules of this House. And I also want to congratulate you for again being elected to this high post as Speaker. It is also customary, Mr. Speaker, to extend words of congratulations to the new members of the Ass embly, who ar e here for the first time, and also the ones that mo ved the speech and reply, the mover and the seconder.

I thought they did conduct themselves extremely well and the mover certainly gave us a real good description of his constituency and he had his hop es built very high when he sa id what the government has done in the north, but listening to his speech for awhile he also, I think, indicated that very much still has to be done.

Now I know ther e are four members in the House from the northern constituencies and I would ho pe that perhaps they will support me later on in the Sessi on when we will be moving some of the resol utions that we have on the Or der Paper and one is in respect to higher minimum wage in nor thern Manitoba. I hope that they will give us that support. Mr .

Speaker, while I'm extending bouquets to the members of the House I wish also to extend and perhaps complime nt some of the Ministers that make themselves readily available to the MLAs when the House is not in Session, and if I would have to single anyone out I would like to mention the Minister of Labour in particular and some ·o f the other s that do make the work of an MLA much easier when we have problems in the constituency and we can commnni cate with the Ministers.

There ar e times that I know they're busy but it certainly is of assis tance to us, so I wish to thank the Ministers, the ones that make themselves available. Mr. Sp eaker, having observed these pleasantries I wish now to come and deal with the Speech that is before us. I will not be able to deal with many items because the time will not allow and much has already been discussed, many of the is sues have been discussed, so I will try and deal perhaps with only a few of the issues. I was glad to hear that the government intends to do so much for the people of Manitoba but, Mr. Sp eaker, when one examines the .

Throne Speech very carefully you quickly find that there isn't that much in the Throne Speech, in the document, and quite often this document has phr ases that have been in the Throne Speeches of prior occasions in the past years, and there are times that some of the things that are mentioned in the Throne Speech do not come into fruition. So after one has been in the House for some time you don't get too disillusioned because you know what to expect. Mr.

Speaker, several months ago we were through a general election and I am sure that all the members in the House would agree that the electorate have demanded improvements in the proc edure of our election system. I'm disappointed that there was no mention made of this in the Throne Speech and I believe that -- I'm sure that even the government members would agree that there is a definite need to look into our election system. I think it is the responsibility of this government to correct the problems and abuses that exist at the present

February 8, 19 74 239 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PATRICK cont 'd) .... time. I'm sure that one can sp end a great deal of time talking about election reform, Mr. Speaker, but I'm sure that if I can point out just a few of the points that I'm sure are quite importa nt and should be of concern to all members. We have faulty enumeration of voters resulting in many people being dis enfranchised or left off the list. The prese nt provision requiring one year res idence in the province, I think is too restrictive.

In fact in 1969 I had a pri vate member's bill in this House or before the House, which died on the Order Paper, to chang e the one year limitation to so mething of 60 days or even 30 days. But if I had the complaints about the requirement, I believe this was one of the most that I received as far as complaints were concer ned. I know in my constit uency I had some 160 people that mi sse d the advance poll, and there were many people in the constituency that--as people move in, it's a new area, and in fact the people were angry, many people were angry.

They were saying, "I have to pay the income tax, I've got to pay property tax, I've been here for ten and a half months and I can't exercise my right. " And I think this is really an iss ue and that the government must do so mething about it. I feel we should reduce the requirement to something in the neighbourhood of perhaps 60 days, if not 60 then 30 days, but certainly one year requirem ent is too long because these people are Canadian citizens and I see no reason why they should have to wait a year before they can exercise their right. Mr. Speaker, the advance polls do very little at the pres ent time.

I believe that advance polls should stay continually open when the elections close, or when the nominations close, because there are people that are working away from their place of residence, and because they travel--and again I cannot see why we should have the three -day advance poll. Why couldn't we have an advance poll after the nominations close, sa y, in larger centres, in some of the larger urban centres; if som eone does want to exercise his right he can drive in and vote. The pres ent voters ' list, Mr.

Speaker, at the same time is also worthl ess because many people are not on the list and many other people that are on the voters' list should not be on it because I know in the case of my constituency many people were phoning and saying, "Look, I'm not a Canadian citizen, I'm an American citizen. I'm on the list and how do I get myself off the list?" And of course we had to advise them they cannot vote. So, Mr.

Speaker, I ask the government that there be a special committee of the House struck off to look into this matter during this sess ion, or perhaps between the two sessions, and by next year this time, during the next sess ion, the government should definitely bring in legislation to change the system and to bring in some sensible election reform legislation into this province. Mr. Speaker, I wish to spend a few minutes on the matter of housing and I'm certain that very few members would not agree with me that we have problems as far as housing is concerned in this province.

It's strange that in a country with so much land, with so few people, 22 million people, that we have so much space, that we should have a shortage of land, and I'm sure that anything that this House and anything that this government can do for individual housing it should be done. I think it is the right of every citizen tu have reasonable access to housing, Mr. Speaker, and I know that the government has started in respect to making some grants to housing and I have no argument against this, but, Mr.

Speaker, a program perhaps would have been worthwhi le, say, two or three years ago, but today what's happened with increased cost of housing, I believe the program is of little value.

One of the writers, I believe it was Val Werier in the Tribune, has sta ted that the people are not taking advantage of the program and it's not that they're not taking advantage of the program but because there are very few houses in the range that they can purchase because the maximum is around $22, 000 to $23, 000, and a few years ago this would have been possible but today you just don't find too many homes in that price range; if you do, they probably won't qualify for the CMHC financing because there'll be part basem ents and not up to the standard.

So, it's st range that we should experience such shortage of service lots, and I know that the government and some of the government members and the backbenchers were always saying that it's the fault of the ICEC members of City Council with which I would disagree because when you talk to the City Council they say it's the government, it's their restrictive legislation that made it so difficult to rezone land and it takes so much time. Well, that 's the kind of information that I was able to get. So -- (Interjection)-- MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Order, please.

240 Febntary 8, 19 74 THRONE SPEECH MR. PATRICK: Mr. Sp eaker, I'm sure that the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources will have his opportunity again Monday or Tuesday, but I know that today you have less land available than you've ever had in the City of Winnipeg. In the City of St. James a few years ago when the city had lots, you had anywhere in the neighborhood of 30-40 builders building houses and we had a pr etty good stock of houses available.

This is not the case today, and I am told information, not only from some of the members of council but from some of the developers and home builders in the city, they have experienced the same difficulty in getting land rezoned for housing, and the time that it takes to rezone land. So, Mr.

Speaker, I know that my colleague has stated that the price of lots has increase d to six and seven thousand, I would say that this is, in my opinion, quite a bit out because in the const ituencies that I am familiar with, in the constit uencies that I am familiar with, in Maples - which is not my constituency, I believe it's the Minister of Health and Socia l Services - the lots in there are going for 13 and 15 thousand a lot and does not include all improvements . That 's the price of lots today in the city. And in Assin iboia you can't find any lots available for builders.

We had some in that area and that 's the price of lots in there. So I feel as far as this government, they talk about the land bank, they talk about many things that you can do for housing, and what's happened we have this year, as indicated yesterday, the construction has dropped consi derably in the city, something by 17 perc ent or in that neighborhood. And the reasons are the shortage of lots. So, Mr. Speaker, perhaps the total reason is not only lots but the cost of housing because of interest rates .

We have sales tax, provincial and federal, which takes quite a bite; we have shortage of service lots in the city; and Mr. Speaker, I feel that if we fail in the basi c function of provid ing shelter and housing for people, we're failing civilization. And there are things that the govern ment can do, and I don't disagree with some of the government programs. The tax rebate system, I think has been of consid erable assis tance to particularly senior citizens and on low income, but the 300-dollar gr ant I am dis appointed because, Mr.

Speaker, what the govern ment is doing in Manitoba is not so mething new, it's only following what some of the other provinces have been doing for at least several years ; the Province of Ontario is following what has been going on in the Pr ovince of British Co lumbia, so the government's following what some of the other provinces are already doing. --(Interjection)-- No, it isn't bad, but except the 300-d ollar grant at the pres ent time, well it just barely covers the legal expense, that's all it'll do. A MEMBER: It isn't even peanuts. MR.

PATRICK: CMHC has a subsidy in respect to mortgage payments which will pro bably amount to in the neighborhood of $600. 00 a year. -- (Interjection)-- Yes it is, but I -- so .

I would like to reco mmend to the government that the government give considera tion to increasing the grant to at least $1, 000, to remove the sales tax pr ovincially and provincially the five perc ent sales tax on building material, and show the lead, and perhaps we can con vince the Federal Government to do likewise, and to make more lots available to the builders in the city, and if not the builders I am sure that if you made lots available to the individuals which has been the practi ce and which has been done in the City of St.

James, which was a very good program implemented at that time by the City Council of St. James, which they made the lots available to the individuals first and if there were any lots left then they made them available to the builders, which was a very good program. Mr. Sp eaker, I would like to see the government give consi deration to deducting taxable- have the proper ty tax and mortgage cost deductible from taxable incom es .

I propo se this to the House and I know the Minister of Municipal Affairs did not accept this last year, but we do have cr isis at the pres ent time as far as housing is concerned and perhaps he can give it some considera tion. Mr. Speaker, another form of housing that we have in the city is the mobile homes, and I'm sure that some people have still not accepted that mobile homes are here to stay. They are here to stay, Mr. Spea ker, and 1 think that they should be recognized as a legitimate form of housing, and their owners should not be treated as second class citizens.

The owners of mobile homes should be able to obtain mortgageable title to land. I feel that sales tax should be removed from the mobile homes because they already pay, they already pay the sales tax, the manufacturers pay the sales tax and the building materi al for th ose mobile homes. So I feel that that should be removed. I know that in the Province of Ontario two perc ent

February 8, 19 74 241 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PATRICK cont'd) .... of all your homes in that province are mobile homes, so the mobile homes do have some advantages and to some people they can be installed on a leased land in a matter of perhaps hours or one day, connected to the sewer installation, to the electricity, and could be liveable in a matter of hours. So I feel that the government should start looking favourably on this type of home instead of treating some of these people as second class citizens. Mr. Speaker, I wish also to appeal to the government, housing for the handic apped in this province.

I know that summer camps are being made to meet the needs of these people, but I feel not enough. In fact, we're just star ting to break ground. There's the first, I believe the first such development will be at a conside ration at the pres ent time, or is under considera tion at the prese nt time, and I'm not sure if it is off the ground or not but I believe that , and I hope the government will give it some consi deration and give it some money to really have it come to fruition.

I know very little is being done for the younger disabled person's housing, which in my opinion should incor pora te phys ical facilities to meet their special needs. The cost of a custom built home is out for most of thes e people because their earning power has been cut by their job limitations and they cannot afford to pay the kind of grant that most other people can pay. And this is something that we have done very little in this area as far as housing for the handicapped people. Mr.

Speaker, the National Research Council in a supplement bill extended for the handi-' capped, stated that one in seven people have a specia l phys ical disability or infirmity. We need facilities to meet the resi dential care. needs of the disabled, and I know that we can look at at least several types at the pres ent time. You may need a halfway house, temporary accom modation between perhaps hospital and before these people get well, or hostel type of accommodation where people can look after th emselves.

I know that the Minister of Labour is interested in this area and I would hope that the one housing unit that's under considera tion at the pres ent time will get the kind of support from this government that it can come to fruition and will be built, Mr. Speaker. Since the Minister of Labour is in his seat perhaps I can direct at least a few words to the Minister at this time. I wish to appeal to the Minister again for the changes in the Work men's Com pensation Act, and Mr.

Speaker, we have debated this issue, not only in the last three years or four years, but we have debated the Workmen 's Compensa tion legislation and adjust in the com pensation that a wife with child ren is better off when her husband is living than when he dies, because when he's living he can at least do some chores while she can do shopping or even do part-time work. In my opinion, the widows ' pensions at the present time are completely inadequate, completely insufficient, and it 's not that the Minister could not bring in the legislation because he certainly did not have any oppos ition from this side.

I have talked about this for the last eight or nine years in this House, the Minister talked about it when he was on this side. Last year and the year before, I believe, he had full support from the official Opposition when the Mem ber for Emerson spoke on behalf of the official Oppos ition and said the same thing, that Workmen's Compensation pensions for widows should be upgraded. Not that -- you know, we're waiting for the government to bring in some legislation but I am sure there are many people that are in dire need and are waiting for this type of legislation, and the government had time to do it.

This is a government that's been almost in power for five years, and when the Minister was on this side he always told us he had ready-made solutions and he would change the legislation, he would bring the proper legislation to help these people. I say to h im , you've had a lot of time. Let's do it now. Mr.

Speaker, if I can illustrate, and I've done it before, a worker permanently disabled through injury or industrial accident is entitled to a maximum pension of 75 percent of his salary or a maximum based on $8, 000, and 75 perc ent of that he would be receiving $600. oo, If this worker dies, I ,see no reason why the widow should not receive that same amount or so mething pretty close to that sa me amount; if not the full $600. 00, then she sh ould at least receive the 75 perc ent of her husband's sa lary.

And I don't know what the Minister will be bringing in or will he be bringing in any legislation this session, but I appeal to him to do it. At the pres ent time, the pension is reduced to $150. 00 or that 's all it is. Mr. Speaker, I also would like to mention to the Minister, I see no need for the 8, 00 0-dollar ceiling because the worker is only entitled to 75 perc ent of his total salary.

242 February 8, 19 74 THRONE SPEECH (MR. PATRICK cont'd) .... Another critical point, Mr. Speaker, I would like to see the Minister give some considera tion, is that all pensions, partial and permanent, should be upgraded and based on the present base salaries and minimum wage, and not what took place 30 years ago. So, if the Minister does not bring in legislation I'll be chastising him again at the next opportunity. Mr. Speaker, the other point that I wish to bring to the attention of the Minister is a 40- hour work week.

I had presented this to the House last year and will be presenting it to the House again this year, and I hope we can get support from at least members from Thompson and Rupertsland and some of the backbenchers on the government side; perhaps we can bring enough pressure on the Minister to change his mind and bring the necessary legislation. The other point, I believe that our Party has brought this to the House on many occasions, a higher minimum wage for northern Manitoba, and it did not find any success for the Minister of Labour.

I would like to hear from some of the members, from the backbenchers and some of the members from northern Manitoba, how they feel about it, because definitely the cost of living is much higher in northern Manitoba than it is in here, in urban centres or in the south, and if the members are really serious about doing something for their constituencies, I feel that they'd better support the resolution that I will be proposing to the House during this session, which is calling for a higher mini mum wage in nor thern Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, the other point that I wish to bring to the attention of the House is something that one of the members has already touched on, and that is changes that are required in regula tions to protect our waterfowl, and I hope that the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources will give some consideration in this area because we must have a program designed to conserve our wildlife and other natural resources of this province if we want our children to enjoy these natural resources, Mr. Speaker. If we conserve our natural resources today, they'll be enjoyed by people to come after us, Mr.

Speaker, because at the present time there's many people in this province and in this country talk about endangered species of our wildlife because of habitat destruction, pesticides, pollution, and many of our birds are already endangered species, Mr. Speaker, and this is an area that we have to give some consideration. I know that the waterfowl was always thought to be one o-f the most plentiful resources in this country. Mr. Speaker, for the last ten years the population of our ducks and geese has been drastically declining, and in fact some of the species are endangered at the present time.

The reasons are quite evident : Loss of habitat, overshooting, destruction of breeding grounds and dis appearance of our potholes on our farmlands. I wonder if the Minister would consider, you know, some of the recommendations that lwish to make. I wish he would give consideration to a much shorter season than we have now, shooting season.

The Waterfowl Migration Treaty that was signed between Canada and the United States in 1912 was signed by England on behalf of Canada and the United States, and somebody must show the leadership in this area, that if we close or shorten the season in Manitoba it's not going to help to change the present problem if the season will stay open just as long in Minnesota, Iowa and some of the states immediately south of us.

And I know that many of the wildlife associations immediately south of us are very much interested to close the seasons or shorten the seasons in this area, that we do protect our wildlife population. I believe that we should take the wetlands out of the assessed farms so that the farmers are not penalized for keeping potholes on their farms. Mr.

Speaker, 98 percent of all our wildlife, ducks and geese are raised on private land, on farm land, and if there is any destruc tion to farmland, to farm crops, I believe there should be some compensation, because this is where 98 percent of our wildlife ducks and geese is raised on, on the farmers' land. So, Mr. Speaker, I believe that this is so mething which the Minister has to give consideration to. The other thing that he can do, perhaps close the nesting grounds to hunting, because most ducks come back to the nesting grounds where they were raised here before.

They come back to the same place and the shooting or overshooting has been one of the reasons why the population has declined to such a great extent. I think the situation is perhaps much more serious than the Minister would like to believe and maybe he's not too much interested in this area, but I feel that he .has to give some consideration in order to protect our wildlife popula tion. Mr. Speaker, I would like to just briefly--! know that there's been considerable debate in respect of our shortage of hospital beds in the Province of Manitoba and Winnipeg. I would

February 8, 19 74 243 THRONE SPEEC H (MR. PATRICK cont'd) .... just like to bri efly state if the Minister of Health and Social Services perhaps would have given us a very candid answer the first day it happened, we probably wouldn't have had the debates that we did. But he didn't. And I don't think that the former Minister of Health and Socia l Services is to blame at all, because I'm told that the prese nt Minister was calling all the shots in that department. If that is true, when he mentioned to us the other day that there was no shortage, well, Mr.

Speaker, he was not too candid in this House, because either the administra tors of the hospitals in the city are dish onest or the Minister was not giving us the facts . Because if you can talk to any administra tor of any hospital in this city, every one will tell you the same thing, that if they had a seri ous problem, had it today, a real critica l crisis that they had on their hands, and the Minister had the audacity to get up in this House and say that is not the case. Thre is no shortage of hospita l beds.

So if anyone should be held responsible I say it's the prese nt Minister of Health and Social Services, because there has been. The way it came to my attention I first raised this question the day after the Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker, I had calls 12:00 or 1:00 o'clock in the morning from one hospital. Subsequently I had calls from doctors and I had a different story related - sim ilar to ' 'What my Leader had stated, where the doctor has to get his patient in the hospital.

This lady with four young children, and the case is most serious, and he says he can't get her in a hospital bed because the only beds that they can get in hospitals anywhere in Winnipeg was through the emergency system. And he says the most unfortunate thing, when you walk through any hospital today you'll find the hallways, the emergency, jammed with people walking the hall ways, the ones that should be dis charged, the others on stretchers. So, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to not prolong the debate or repeat because this has been sa id before.

But all I wanted to sa y, if anyone is responsible the pres ent Minister is responsible. Mr. Speaker, thes e are a few of the points I wanted to bring to the attention of the House and we will have the opportunity again later in the Session to bring the other points that are of importance. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. 'Tital, but I am at the pleasure of the House if you wish to call it 5:30

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	30-1-10
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	30th 1st hansardpdf 10.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c5de894ec2e4c41aad2ad5995034cab63870c724

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