Manitoba Hansard — 5 March 1963 (Sitting 4, 27th Legislature, 1st Session)

27-1-4

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2:30 o'clock, Tuesday, March 5, 1963. Opening Prayer by Madam Speaker. MADAM SPEAKER: Presenting Petitions. MR. T. P. HILLHOUSE, Q. C. (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Leslie Lids tone praying for the passing of

an Act for the relief of Leslie Lidstone and Lucienne Marie Lidstone. MR. STEVE PATRICK (Assiniboia): Madam Speaker, I'd like to present a petition of Harvey Lipkin and others praying for the passing of

an Act to incorporate Bel Acres Golf and Country Club. MR. illLLHOU SE: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a petition of John Mason and others, praying for the passing of

an Act to incorporate Nelson· Finance Corporation. MADAM SPEAKER: Reading and Receiving Petitions Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees Notices of Motion Introduction of Bills Orders of the Day HON.

DUFF ROBLIN (Premier and Provincial Treasurer)(Wolseley): One of the customs of this House with which most of the members assembled here will be familiar, is that at an early stage in each session we should bring into remembrance the name and the record of men and women who have been members of the Legislature, who have died since our last convening, and I think it would be appropriate if I should at this time ask the House to consider resolutions in this respect regarding four previous members of this House. I begin with the name of W. R. Clubb -- Billy Clubb.

He was a man who was well known to many throughout this Pro vince in his political capacity and in his personal capacity. He was a native son, having been born near his family residence at Morris, Manitoba. He came up through the ranks, so to speak, as a municipal councillor. He was twenty years a member of this Legislature and for a good deal of that time occupied a position in the cabinet, one of which was the post of Minis ter of Public Works, and sat as a colleague, I believe, of the Honourable Member for Lake side.

When he retired from the Legislature he assumed the responsibilities of Chairman of the Manitoba Liquor Control Board, which he carried on for some sixteen years. I think Billy Clubb is so well-known to members of this House that he requires no eulogy from me, but he was one of those men who pursued a wide community interest, who was a good citizen in every sense of that word, and brought to his associations a kindly and a generous personality for wl).ich he will be long remembered. So Madam, in recognizing the services of Mr.

Clubb to this province and this House I should like to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Morris who sits in the seat which he represented in his day, that this House convey to the fam ily of the late William Reid Clubb, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be re quested to forward a copy of this Resolution to the family.

MADAM SPEAKER: Moved by the Honourable the First Minister, seconded by the Hon ourable Member from Morris, that this House convey to the family of the late William Reid Clubb who served as a Member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active com munity and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this re solution to the family. The Honourable Member from Morris. MR. HARRY P.

SHEWMAN (Morris): Madam Speaker, it is with deep respect that I rise to second the motion of the Honourable the First Minister. The late W. R. Clubb was a success ful farmer. He was a great shorthorn breeder; he had some of the finest shorthorn cattle on his farm in southern Manitoba, and it was on this farm that he loved to spend his spare mom ents when he had time, that he passed away on last summer. He was known as a very success ful farmer within the area and had spent half his lifetime in public life.

As the First Minister has mentioned he spent years in public service in this Legislature, and he was a great man for March 5th, 1963 Page 25

sports of all kinds and a great curler. Many a game we've had in the old rink we used to have in Morris when the late W. R. Clubb found time to take away from his busy life that he was leading to get out and have a game of curling at Morris; and he was one of the real hard-work ing men for the goodwill and for the good of the people of Manitoba. He held several portfolios :lli. the past -- Health, Labour -- in addition to .... .••. : .. •• •••.••••• •.•.. , and the late W. R.

Clubb, as the Fli:st Minister has mentioned, was known not only throughout the constit uency of Morris as Bill Clubb but known throughout the Province as Bill Clubb. And he was a kind and loving father. He had four daughters and a son, and there are fifteen grandchildren now. The late W. R. Clubb has left his mark in the Province of Manitoba that will be remem bered for a long time. MR. GILDAS MOLGAT (Leader of the Opposition)(Ste. Rose): Madam Speaker, while I did not have the pleasure of ...•. .. with Mr. Clubb, I did get to know him quite well when I entered politics actively.

Since that time I have also got to know some members of his fam-, ily very well. I know the contribution the family have made to Manitoba public affairs. My predecessor as the Member for Ste. Rose constituency, the late Dane MacCarthy, was a very close friend of Bill Clubb. I know the two of them worked very closely together and from my predecessor I had heard a great deal about Mr. Clubb before entering the House here. I want to associate myself and all the members of my party in this motion moved by the First Minis ter. The type of men like Mr.

Clubb are the type of men who have made the Province of Manit oba. I am sure that the motion that's passed today will be received with a great deal of pleas ure by that family. MR. MORRIS GRAY (lnkster): I had the pleasure of knowing Mr. Clubb since 1930 when I became the alderman of the City of Winnipeg in the beginning of the depression years. Mr. Clubb was in charge with the City of unemployment relief, in all the unemployment and in all the relief that was granted to those who suffered since 1930. I worked with him since in the City Hall.

I was a member of the Provincial Commission of the Unemployment Situation with him and his deputy all the time. I have also known him when he was in the House and still carrying on this similar work until he was appointed to another position, and we met together quite often. I do not know whether I have met many people in my life who were so kind, so considerate and so willing to help people. Many times I know that he wanted to do more than he did, but the powers that be at that time had somewhat kept him a little bit backwards.

He made a wonderful contribution as far as I know, and since I know him, to the welfare of the Province, and particularly I remember him, his very willingness and anxiety and worry and personal suf fering for those who suffered in the depression years between 1930 and 1940. I was informed, although I have never taken part actively in his position as the Public Works Minister -- to me at all times, even now, road building means road building, period. Whether it's done in the constituency of the Liberals or in the constituency of the Conservatives it did not matter to me at any time. I loved this man.

We met very often. He showed a lot of sympathy to me person ally and I wish to express my sorrow at his untimely death. MR. D. L.

CAMPBELL (Lakeside): Madam Speaker, as the First Minister has said, we annually pay tribute to members or former members of the House, as the case may be, who during the time that we have not been meeting have passed on to their reward, and I'm sure that it's appropriate that we should do so, because these folk who have gone before, particular ly the ones who are to be mentioned today, have had rather long records of public service and are, I think, very much entitled to be remembered in this way.

On the other hand it's not an occasion when any of us would want to say too much about our personal connections with the friends who have gone before. Perhaps I could say, as far as Bill Clubb was concerned, that he was for many years one of my very closest friends and, though I know that comparisons are odious at any time, I would say that I have known in my time only about two other men, I be lieve, who I would think would compare with Bill Clubb so far as popularity in this Chamber was concerned. Now maybe popularity in the Chamber is not always a virtue. Perhaps some times you have to be a bit unpopular.

I am sure that sometimes Mr. Clubb had to give decisions - make decisions - that were certainly not universally popular, but he managed to maintain the friendship of both his colleagues and the other members of the House to a remarkable degree and, I am sure, was one of the most popular men who ever stood in this Chamber. Mr. Clubb's father came to this province, if I remember correctly, in 1882, and there was a flood in that Page 26 March 5th, 1963 I

year. Our old friend, the Red River, went on quite a rampage. Mr. Clubb, with some other pioneers, came sort of overland over water part of the way, coming up from the south; but the little spot near Mo.rris -- a lot of it was inundated in that year -- so was Emerson --other areas. But the little spot near Morris where Mr. Clubb established his first residence was above water. In spite of the fact a lot of it was flooded at that time he decided to settle there. Bill Clubb was born two years later; the farm remains in the family still. Enough has been said, I am sure, about the contribution Mr.

Clubb made when he CaJ!le to this House as a com paratively young man in 1920 -- that was the House that lasted for only two years. Then he re mained, following the election of 1922, he remained until he left to take up that other position that has been mentioned. I am sure that quite a few of the members can attest that because of that other position that he held, that they did come to know him or know of him. Well, he has made a great contribution. His family certainly have reason to be proud of him, and I think it's appropriate that we should pass the resolution that has been proposed.

MADAM SPEAKER: Will the honourable members rise. MR. ROBLIN: Surely the memorial to which I have to refer now concerns one of the most sparkling and effervescent characters that I have ever had the privilege of knowing in public life. Particularly is this true of his old age, because the late Senator John T. Haig died at the age of 84, after having had one of the most remarkable careers in public life of which I know - a career of 54 years. He was born in Ontario and came to this province as a young man to prac tice law.

It wasn •t long before he became a member of the school board of his locality, where he served from 1908 to 1922. He was a member of this House for a short period in 1914-1915, then for a lengthy period from 1920 to 1935. After that, he was appointed to the Senate of Can ada, where he had the distinction of leading his party in opposition as well as being the senate leader when his party was entrusted with the responsibilities of office. In fact, he was a min ister in the cabinet of the first administration and a Privy Councillor of Canada.

Mere recital of these facts gives some idea of the contribution that the late Senator Haig made to the life of this Province and to the nation. He was a colorful figure, full of enthusiasm and of zeal for the political causes that he espoused, and yet generously endowed with that Irish humour which made even a strong sense of partisanship pleasant to all who had the pleasure of his acquain tance.

I therefore move, Madam, seconded by the Honourable Member for Winnipeg South, that this House convey to the family of the late Honourable Senator John Thomas Haig, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of ManitOba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement, and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

MADAM SPEAKER: Moved by the Honourable the First Minister, seconded by the Hon ourable Member for Winnipeg Centre, that this House convey to the family of the late Honour able,Senator John Thomas Haig, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Man itoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement, and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family. The Honourable Member for Winnipeg Centre. MR. JAMES COW AN, Q.

C. (Winnipeg Centre): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have this opportunity to second this motion of condolence moved by the Honourable the First Minis ter. The former Senator, Honourable John T. Haig, was indeed a public servant of this pro vince. His record -- continuous record -- of fifty years of service in public office is no doubt a Canadian record for continuous service, perhaps indeed a world record. But Senator Haig's activities were not limited to his life in public service.

He was an ardent curler and served as president of the Manitoba Curling Association, the Dominion Curling Association, and was one of the trustees of the MacDonald Brier Tankard. He was noted for his straightforward speaking politically and, a few years ago, when he was interviewed by a journalist, he was able to say this: "I have no political enemies I have hatred for, and I don't think any have hatred for me. I've never misled anyone, and that has paid off." This statement is one which I am sure the members of this House would like to make in their later years. Honourable John T.

Haig truly made a great contribution to the public life of this province. MR. MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, there is only one member of the present House who March 5th, 1963 Page 27

sat with Senator Haig, I am sure I can say that every member of this House, regardless of what side they sit 011, knew of Senator Haig� The record read to us by the First Minister clear ly indicates the contribution, that this man made, not just to the aff airs of Manitoba, but to the affairs of Canada as a whole. I am happy to see that his son today is carrying on the work that his father had started, and is now sitting as one of the senators for Manitoba, following in his father's footsteps. I am pleased to associate our group with this motion. MR .

RUSSELL PAULLEY (Leader of the New Democratic Party)(Radisson): Madam Speaker, when at the beginning of the Session, the First Minister expresses the opinions of the House, and indeed through that, the opinions of the people of Manitoba, in recognition of the services the past members have performed, I have the feeling that sometimes I wonder whether I or not in the lifetime of those who are honoured, and have had the honour to represent our pro- vince in this Legislature, whether sometimes we are not fully aware of the job that has been done by those that have preceded us in. this Legislature, and the jobs they have done, not only on behalf of Manitoba but of the whole nation as well.

I think, Madam Speaker, that in paying our respects to the memory of the late Senator Haig, that we truly have the exemplification of a true Manitoban and a true Canadian, one who rendered as has been referred to as fifty years of valuable service to the nation. I am sure that the record of Senator John T. Haig will be outstanding in the annals of the history of our nation, and we of the New Democratic Party join in expressing our appreciation of the life of the late Senator. MR .

CAMPBELL: Madam Speaker, the list of achievements that have already been given with regard to the late Senator Haig is so impressive that it seems to be unnecessary to add any more, but I would like to mention that in showing the versatility of this gallant gentleman- and he certainly was, as the First Minister has mentioned, a most colorful character -- he was a school teacher in his time. Taught school near Alexander, and always retained a very close relationship with that area. Then, he was one who represented more than one constit uency in this House at diff erent times. He was first elected for Assiniboia.

There used to be famous contests there between one of the Wiltons -one of the Wiltons, by the way, who stayed on the side of the angels -- and Senator Haig, and they alternated as the member for Assiniboia. Then he moved into Winnipeg -- I mean so far as representation was concerned -- became a member here, and on one occasion, led the poll in Winnipeg at the time that ten candidates ran over the whole area. And also, if my memory is correct, for a short time he was House Leader of the Conservative Party.

In spite of that, I always enjoyed him very greatly and ap preciated the contribution that he made, because he was a gay warrior, and a very formidable antagonist, and a very good friend; because although he was a hard-hitter in politics, he did not carry his politics into his personal affairs. John Haig was justly popular, and certainly has made a very great contribution. ' MADAM SPEAKER: Will the Honourable Members rise. MR . ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I n.ow refer to the late Robert Iiawkins, who died last year at the age of 83.

Robe:tt Hawkins came to this country from the United Kingdom as a young man, and almost at once made his way to Dauphin, and I have been well aware of the im portance of Dauphin in the political and economic life of our country for some time, although I am not as well acquainted with Mr. Hawkins career as the citizens of that town, and as my friend and colleague, the Minister of Education.

I think that the significanfthing that I would like to mention at the present is not only the fact that he sat in this House I think for four terms, but for three of those four terms he was Speaker of the Assembly, and that is an ac complishment of some magnitude. He was speaker of the Assembly I believe longer than any one else has been in the history of the Legislature, and by that fact I think it is obvious that he rendered service indeed to this House and to the public at large.

I therefore am honoured to move, seconded by the Honourable Minister of Education, that this House convey to the family of the late Robert Hawkins who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement, its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

MADAM SPEAKER: Moved by the Honourable the First Minister, seconded by the Hon ourable the Minister of Education, that this House convey to the family of the late Robert Haw kins who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy Page 28 March 5th, 1963

in their bereavement, its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active commun ity and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolu tion to the family. The Honourable the Minister of Education. HON. STEW ART E. McLEAN, Q. C. (Minister of Education)(Dauphin): Madam Speaker, it is a privilege to be associated with the Honourable the First Minister and the members of this House in this resolution of condolence to the members of the family of the late Robert Hawk:lns. Mr.

Hawkins was a distinguished member of this Legislature and a distinguished citizen of Manitoba. I can remember quite well as a young boy the 16th day of June 1932, when Mr. Hawkins was first elected as a member of the Legislature, and as a result of that election he represented the electoral division of Dauphin. He became the eleventh member to sit for that constituency and represented it continuously until the dissolution of the Legislature in September 1949.

He established for himself a reputation as an able member of the Assembly and a vigorous representative of his fellow citizens. ri was while he was a member of this Legislature that he was elected the Speaker on the 18th of February 1937, and he continued in that office until 1949. During his tenure of office as Speaker he distinguished himself for his fairness, his impartiality and his dignity with which he presided over the proceedings here, and for his deep understanding of the democratic traditions which had become such an integral part of the deliberations of this Legislative Assembly.

I am certain, Madam Speaker, that all Speakers since his term of office have followed and will continue to follow the traditions which he established in that most important office in this Assembly. Mr. Hawkins' election in June 1932 followed naturally upon his record of community service which began very shortly after he arrived in 1906 in the pioneer community of Dauphin. Over the years he served the Cham ber of Commerce, the Agricultural Society, the Dauphin General Hospital, the Dauphin Coun try Club, his church, and his fraternal lodges with devotion, intelligence and integrity. My ·first remembrance of Mr.

Hawk:lns as quite a young boy was that of seeing him at the annual Dauphin Fair busily engaged in carrying out his duties as secretary of the Fair Board and play ing an important

part in the conduct of that exhibition. It would however, be correct to say that the Dauphin General Hospital claimed his greatest devotion, and for many years he served it unselfishly and with great vision. He did not confine his activities to the local community but extended his interests beyond the boundaries of his immediate home into the wider sphere of Manitoba. He participated in the establishment of the Associated Hospitals of Manitoba and for a time was its president, and he gave vigorous leadership to his fraternal organizations in the provincial field.

Bob Hawk:lns, as he was known to everyone, was a good friend and neighbour. He was interested in his home and in his garden. He encouraged all that was good in his home town. He believed in the Dauphin community and in its ultimate destiny in this province. Madam Speaker, I think that the life of the late Robert Hawk:lns is one of particular significance to the people of this province. Like so many young men at the turn of the century, he came from his native England to make his home and his life in Manitoba and in Canada.

He brought with him a sense of purpose which spurred the pursuit of his own vocation as well as his desire to build up here a good community and a good province in which to live and to make his life. He brought with him the grace and charm of the Old Land. In his life we may see the reflection of the lives of many others of his generation who established so well the foundations of our province and our country.

In that great company of men and women to whom all of us owe so much, the name of Robert Hawk:lns shines with distinction and he is remembered with affection by his fellow citizens of the Dauphin constituency and the wider community of Manitoba. MR. MOLGAT: The Minister of Education has given a detailed and most accurate des cription of the life and work of Bob Hawkins. I rise as a friend and neighbour of the late Bob Hawkins and certainly agree that his name was known far beyond the Dauphin constituency; in fact it was a household word throughout our portion of north-central Manitoba.

I have an added advantage over some of the other members of this House in that I have in our own office here in the caucus room a painting of the Honourable Bob Hawk:lns so that as we work daily we are reminded of this man who did so much in his position as Speaker of this House. Once again, here is a case where the work of the father is carried on in part by the son. Ed Hawk:lns today has been active in public affairs for some time as Police Magistrate and contributing to the life of the province. I join in this motion most heartily. March 5th, 1963. Page 29

MR. GRAY: Madam Speaker, on behalf of our group I wish to extend fullest sympathy and regret in the death of Speaker Hawkins. When I came into this House and he was then Speaker for many years, I admired his sympathy, his understanding with a new member just coming into the House, and I have noticed on many occasions how he has foregone the rules in many instances to the new members, made them feel at home --and I am a witness to it be cause no one broke the rules at that time mqre than I did.

He was very sympathetic, friendly, fatherly, corrected us in a very nice way, and finally we behaved very nicely under his admin istration. He was a very friendly man. I know when the House was n'Qt in session he used to go around to every hotel in Dauphin to find out if there was a friend of his there, particularly one from the Legislature. And once he found me down there.

There was a little affair in Dauphin of the small Jewish community there, and his friendship- he didn't know how to do some.thing for me, not for myself personally but because I was a member of the Legislature - and on that occasion spoke about his new student or member in this House. He always tried to see that everyone in the House is carrying out the rules. In the meantime I haven't heard a single harsh word from him. I remember him very well, and I have taken the trouble once or twice to visit him in Dauphin.

He has helped considerably to build the Province of Manitoba, to prepare for others, believing strongly in the ideas of democratic rule and the following of the democratic ideas in this province. Perhaps if not for him in· the years gone by I wouldn't be able to be here. I am thankful to him for it. He had a wonderful family, very cordial and very friendly. I join with the others in expressing the sincere sympathy of my group, and particularly myself, who served under him for many years. MR.

CAMPBELL: Unlike some of the other members of the Chamber, it is unusual for me to speak three times in one afternoon, but because all three of the former members whose contribution is being recognized today were such good friends of mine I simply can't resist the temptation to add my word to the tributes that have already been paid to Robert Hawkins.

The Minister of Education has dealt so fully with his accomplishments and record that I do not need to add anything to that except to say that, when the Honourable Minister mentioned the service that he had given to fraternal orders among other community w6rk, I think Robert would have liked it to be mentioned here and put on the record, that because of the enthusiasm for, and the dedication to the Order to which he owed the greatest allegiance, he became the Grand Master of the Masonic Lodge of Manitoba, and gave distinguished service in that exalted posi tion as well.

I certainly join with the other members in expressing appreciation of a life well lived, great community service . . • • . . • . . . . . . . . . . . . . should be an inspiration to other young men as one who came from another country here as an immigrant and made good in so many ways. MADAM SPEAKER: Would the honourable members rise. MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I would like to recall the name of the late Robert New ton Lowry.

It must be admitted, alas, that no one who sits in this Chamber now was a mem ber during the time of his service, but a perusal of the record discloses that he played his full part as a good citizen in the building of our community. Mr. Lowry, like a number of the other gentlemen whom we have referred to, was not born in Manitoba but came here from the United States at a very early age. He lived most of his life in the community of East Kildonan. He was engaged in the general contracting business there for many years and established a re putation to be admired.

He was very active in his Church, being a member of the Session, and also an enthusiastic and prominent Mason, receiving his fifty year jewel in the course of time. He served in this House for 7 years, from 1915 to 1922 as a supporter of the Norris govern ment. I understand that those were challenging and exhilarating days in this Chamber and the record discloses that he played his

part in the activities of the Legislative Assembly of Manit oba at that time. So, Madam, it is my honour to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Kildonan, that this House convey to the family of the late Robert Newton Lowry, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty and a useful life of active community and public service, that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

MADAM SPEAKER: Moved by the First Minister, seconded by the Honourable Member for Kildonan, that this House convey to the family of the late Robert Newton Lowry, who serv ed as a member of the Legislative Assembly, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and Page 30 March 5th, 1963

its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family. The Honourable Member for Kildonan. MR . MILLS (K ildonan): Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to have known Mr. Lowry for a long time as he lived in our City for a period of approximately forty-two years •. He was very highly respected by every citizen in East Kildonan and particularly in the building construction trade in which he played no small part-- indeed I am told that prior to our building boom in ·East Kildonan a few years ago, the deceased built, or had a

part in building, most of the homes of that particular City and those who speak of him today still speak of the excellent workman ship he put in all his homes. I understand Mr. Lowry served with distL"l.ctive service for seven years for North Winnipeg, the Norris government. It is therefore with deep respect that I rise to second the Premier's motion honouring one who served the community so well. MR . MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, as the First Minister has said, there is no one in the Chamber now who sat with Mr. Lowry. There are undoubtedly many here, however, who got to know Mr.

Lowry in later years in his work here in Winnipeg. He was later in the Federal Civil Service, and undoubtedly some of the members had occasion in that period to get to know him. The First Minister indicated thil.t the times that Mr. Lowry sat here were colourful times in the Province of Manitoba and undoubtedly, having met him in later years and knowing the contribution he made in his other work, I don't doubt that he participated fully at that time. He was a member of our party during that period and I rise at this moment to associate our group with this motion. MR .

PAULLEY: Madam Speaker, I would like to add the expression of sympathy from our particular group in recognition in honouring the valuable work done by our late member of this Legislature. I am sure that his services to this community and to this province will be well remembered. MADAM SPEAKER: Would the honourable members rise. Before the Orders of the Day I would like to direct your attention to the gallery on my right where there are twelve pupils from Grades 7 and 8 of the Seventh Day Adventist Academy, with their teacher,. Miss Erickson.

This school is situated in the constituency of the Honour able Member for Elmwood. We hope that they will enjoy their stay with us this afternoon; that they will benefit from what they see here; that it will be of assistance to them in their studies, and we hope that you will come back and visit us again . . . . • . . . I would also like to extend an invitation to all members of this Legislative Assembly.

As it has been suggested by some of the new members that they would like to familiarize themselves with the rules, orders and forms of proceedings of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, I felt that probably a kind of seminar could be held and at this seminar a few points of procedures could be discussed by the Clerk of the House. Probably open dis cussions and questions could be put to those members who are more familiar with the rules of the House. To all who have questions concerning procedure I would suggest that you make a note of the questions and be prepared to ask them.

I believe this will be of great benefit to the new members, and a refresher course may be of some assistance to the former members, so I invite all members to attend the seminar at 10:00 A. M. Friday next, in Room 254. Proposed resolution standing in the name .•..... HON. GURNEY EVANS (Minister of Industry and Commerce, and Provincial Secretary) (Fort Rouge): I wonder, before you call the Orders of the Day, if I might have leave to table the report of the Internal Economy Commissioners for the fiscal period ended the 31st day of March, 1962? HON. STERLING R. LYON, Q.

C. (Attorney-General and Minister of Public Utilities) (Fort Garcy): Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day are proceeded with I should also like to lay on the table of the House, a copy of each regulation filed pursuant to the Regulations Act, for the period 14 Februacy, 1962 to 28 February, 1963. There is only one copy for tabling. Members of the Statutory Regulations Committee will receive the copies for the pur pose of that Committee's work. HON. CHARLES H.

WITNEY (Minister of Mines & Natural Resources)(Flin Flon): Madam Chairman, I'd like to lay on the table before the Orders of the Day, the annual report of the De partment of Mines and Natural Resources and the report of the Board of the Manitoba Farm March 5th, 1963 Page 31 I_

Loans Association for the period ending March 31st, 1962. HON. ROBERT SMELLIE (Minister of Municipal Affairs)(Birtle-Russell): Madam Speaker, before the Orders of the Day I would like to lay on the table of the House the annual report of the Municipal Board for the year ending December 31st, 1962. MR . ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I believe that it might suit the convenience of the House if we were to proceed at once to the debate on the address.

I understand that this would pro bably suit the Honourable Member for Inkster who has two resolutions on the Order Paper to which he is entitled to priority, this being private members• day. MR. GRAY: I agree. MR. ROBLIN: I am glad to find that we're of one mind on the subject. So we can pro ceed then to the order on the gracious speech. MR . MOLGAT: I would like to address a question to the Minister of Industry and Com merce. Yesterday I received one copy of the report of the Department of Industry and Com merce for the year ending 31st of March 162. Will other copies for the members be coming soon? MR.

EVANS: I'll have to enquire, Madam Speaker, as to when they'll be available. I'll bring them down as soon as it's possible. MR. S. PETERS (Elmwood): Before the Orders of the Day I'd like to direct a question to the Minister of Labour. Could he tell us when he will be tabling the report of the Minimum Wage Board? HON. 0. BAIZLEY (Minister of Labour)(Osborne): I would like to thank the Honourable Member from Elmwood for giving me notice of this question. I would like to report that the Minimum Wage Board is continuing their deliberations and will report in due course. MR. PETERS: .•••...

I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Health. In the last session of the last Legislature I introduced a resolution on meat inspe.ction and the Minister said at the next session of the Legislature he would table a progress report. I won der if he could tell us when we can expect a report. HON. GEO. JOHNSON (Minister of Health)(Gimli): Madam Speaker that will be in the very near future I would hope. I have the information.

MADAM SPEAKER: Adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the Honourable Mem: ber for Turtle Mountain and the proposed motion of the Honourable Leader of the Opposition in amendment thereto. The Honourable the Leader of the New Democratic Party . • Continued on next page. Page 32 March 5th, 1963

MR. R. PAULLEY (Leader of the New Democratic Party) (Radisson): Madam Speaker, may I first of all extend to you a hearty welcome to the dominant Chair in this Chamber. I know that you will do a good job as Speaker of this Assembly. For the past few years, all too few may I say, that we have had an opportunity of knowing each other I have come to the con clusion that you are a person of fair mindedness, and I am sure that in your conduct of your House that that will be exemplified.

I would like to extend my congratulations to the new Minister s of the Crown and also the Minister who has had a change, the new Minister of Welfare, who has now vacated the Ministry of Labor. I sincerely trust that his difficulties in the field of welfare will be less than those in the field of labor. I extend to the new Minister of Labor and to the Minister of Municipal Affairs my congratulations and trust and hope that they will find enjoyment in their portfolios.

I would also like to say to the Honourable the Minister without Portfolio that I am happy that the government has seen fit to retain the benefit or" his years of service and I' m sure that he will be giving invaluable advice to the First Minister and to the Executive Council. To the Mover and the Seconder of the Speech in Reply, I add my congratulations. I think it augers well to them that tlrey've started out in this Assembly so well. I offer my congratulations to the First Minister and to his Party on their re-election to this Assembly and to the Government of Manitoba.

I, like the leader of the opposition, did my utmost to see that such would not happen. I failed in my endeavours, but I want to assure to the First Minister and to all of the members opposite though while that skirmish was lost, that the battle is not over, and that eventually there will be changes in the ranks of government. I want to congratulate the Leader of the Opposition, Madam Speaker as well. He knows as well as I know that following the calling of the election there was a terrific battle to be waged between those of his ranks and those supporting the philosophy and idealogy of the New Demo cratic Party.

I say to him , my congratulations on winning this victory and I wish him well for at least the duration of this House. I would like Madam Speaker, first of all to reflect slightly on the past election. For in this House it is only we of the New Democratic Party who lost support. There may be many reasons for this; it may have been that our appeal and !he program that we presented to the people of Manitoba was insuff icient for today.

But I want to say Madam Speaker, that the determination of the New Democratic Party is still as vigorous as ever; that our basic philo soph ies and our ideologies are not those that can be lightly cast aside; that while we do lose now and again, the basic philosophies of our party are ever more gaining strength throughout the Dominion --and indeed even in this particular province - because I noted the other day, that my honourable friend the leader of the opposition, did make reference when commenting on the Speech from the Throne,· he made reference to the fact that he wondered whether the Conservative Party of Manitoba was following the ideology of the New Democratic or Socialist Party.

I want to say to this House, while it is true that our program was not accepted by the people of the Province of Manitoba at this time, that many portions of our p100 gram have in the past, and even today, are being accepted by the old line parties, and that I suggest Madam Speaker is the reason that the old line parties are able to stay in power. Yes, Madam Speaker, we did lose ground in the election. In some of the battles it was very very close. In one constituency there was only a difference of four votes after an appeal to the Court of Appeal.

I want to say Madam Speaker, that we are undertaking at this time to have the permission of the Manitoba Court of Appeal to give to us the rights of an appeal in this particular case to the Supreme Court of Canada. An order was issued today to the legal representative to see whether or not this further appeal to the highest courts of Canada in respect of this election can not be made.

I want to say, Madam Speaker, that when I make this announcement I mean no reflection at all upon the gentleman who is sitting at the present time in this Assembly as the elected representative thus far of the constituency of Kildonan, but we believe, we believe that because there is a vast principle involved in this, that the question --that the highest court of Canada should judge upon it if it is possible to do so - and as I say Madam Speaker, an appeal is being made, is being launched to the Court of Appeal for permission that this might be done.

And I think Madam Speaker, that this should be considered of great importance to all members of this House because there seems to be, as there was in the award of the Court of Appeal, a great difference of opinion as to the legality of certain sections of our Election Act, and if March 5th, 1963. Page 33

perchance there i s confusion or doubt in respect of the voting privileges and rights of the people of the Province of Manitoba contained within our Act at the present time, I think it is in the interests of this House, and in the interests of Manitoba that a clear cut decision should be made.

And also Madam Chairman, may I suggest that this House, and in particular the Attorney General, should enquire into all aspects of our Election Act, as a result of the recent election, and of numerous matters that have been brought to our attention through the media of the press, of the conduct of the election itself, and I suggest that there should be a calling of the committee on election privileges where representations can be made respecting the conduct of the recent election.

I want to say, Madam Speaker, to the Honourable Leader of the Opposition, that I compliment him on the brevity of his remarks yesterday. I am sure that there are many in the House that trust and hope that the same will be the order of the day. However, I doubt that, I doubt that. But I will in my rambling remarks, Madam Chairman, try to be as brief as possible. I agree with the Leader of the Opposition when he makes reference to the many Boards and Commissions and referrals of the government opposite.

I agree most heartily with him when he suggests that there is nothing more or less than procrastination and delay of the party opposite on almost every sphere of activity dealing with government here in the Province of Manitoba. I am somewhat surprised, however, to hear from the Leader of the Liberal Party, of his concern for labour. It is true that at the last session of this House, following the lead of our group, the Liberal Party voted against the making of Trade Unions legal entity.

It is true that likewise following the lead of our party here they voted against the strike vote being con ducted in secret under the auspices and supervision of the government.

I wonder, however, Madam Speaker, how he justified the rejection by his party at their last Manitoba convention of an increase in the minimum wage of sixty-six cents per hour, when if one read the paper, one noted that there was a resolution respecting the minimum wage before this great party and they rejected an increase beyond the sixty-six cents, and I would suggest that by virtue of that, Madam Speaker, is an indication of the concern of the Liberal Party for the worker of the Province of Manitoba.

I note also from press reports that at that recent liberal convention, the party was concerned with the contributions being made by some trade unions on a voluntary basis to the New Democratic Party. Let me assure my friends of the liberal party, because apparently no one there knew the answer, that there is no compulsion at all used on members of any trade union to make a contribution to the New Democratic Party, But it would be interesting, Madam Speaker, to know whsre the Liberals receive their money.

In the present federal election it is noted that Bay Street Toronto has decided to increase its financial contri butions to the Liberals at the expense of the Tories. I say to my honourable friend that any five cents per month deduction from a trade" union member to the New Democratic Party is only peanuts compared to the contributions made by big business and corporations to both the Liberal and Conservative Parties. · On another point raised by the Leader of the Liberal Party, in his remarks I am in complete agreement. That is in the field of labour management relations.

Here is an area where great improvement is needed. l do not think that either the Liberals in the past or the Conservatives now, in this province, are giving the leadership required in this field. The fact of the matter is, that we have had more lost time in industry as the result of strikes and lockouts in recent years than ever before. We are well aware that many employers are using narrow

interpretations of our Labour Relations Act to curtail the rights of employees to organize into trade unions. I call upon the government at this session to introduce amendments to the Labour Relations Act to clarify this situation and protect the rights of employees to join trade unions. Before leaving this portion of my remarks, Madam Speaker, dealing in general with the question of labour, I want to say that I condemn the Government of Manitoba for dr;1laying the proclamation of the legislation dealing with legal entity until after the election was held.

To me this was deliberate and misleading to the electorate, and particularly those that had some faith in the Conservative Party. I note Madam Speaker, that in some quarters it has been suggested that we in this legis lature should only deal with provincial matters and not discuss federal affairs. This of course is due to the fact that we are now having a federal election. I note Madam Speaker, from across the way, ''hear hear" -- and I blame them not for it, for if I was in their position I would agree Page 34 March 5th, 1963.

with this •• (Interjection) •• over here preparing this. But, Madam Speaker, I cann ot see how this can be done, because the affairs of the province are so interwoven with federal policies that reference to one implicates the other. Our shared programs in agriculture, in health, in welfare, and finance, and many other fields, with Ottawa, makes it impossible to divorce one from the other.

I can appreciate that many people would like us just in this House to deal with such questions as provincial roads, etc., but I want to inform the House, that as far as we are concerned federal matters are of a concern to the people of Manitoba. As a matter of fact, Madam Speaker, I had at first intended to raise the question, and a very vital question, of nuclear weapons in this debate. However, members may have noted that there is a Notice of Motion standing on the Order Paper in my name which will give this House an ample opportunity to consider this question of nuclear weapons.

Now Madam, I would like to refer to a few points directly in the speech as given by His Honour the other day. We await with interest and anticlpation the report of the Committee on Manitoba's Economic Future. I want to say, Madam Speaker, that as far as this group is concerned, we join in the thanks to those individuals who have served on this Committee and we await the results of their endeavours.

It is interesting to note that in the Speech from the Throne delivered by His Honour, that the government's economic policy is to achieve a rate of growth sufficient to provide job opportunities and to increase the standards of living for our people.

May I point out, Madam Speaker, that despite the verbiage in this Speech, that here in the Greater Winnipeg area, despite the fact that the speech records, in words, that we made progress here in the Province of Manitoba, that the last report that I have insofar as the unem ployment situation in Greater Winnipeg, indicates that there are thousands more seeking work at the end of January this year than there was January a year ago. Is this progress; or is it just Tory progress?

I hope, Madam Speaker, using the objective of the government where it says, "and increase the standards of living for our people", I sincerely trust and hope that when we receive the report of the Minimum Wage Board that they will agree with the contention as contained in the Speech from the Throne that the standards of living for our people should be increased. It is noted that the government proposes legislation to establish an economic consultative board, whose objective will be to plan our economic path over the years ahead.

I would like to know what typ:. of planning the government has in mind, for if it is the so-called type of planning as announced by this government recently, and previously, then I am very much afraid that not much will be achieved. We have had in the past many reports from such agencies as the Arthur D. Little & Co., and others, dealing with our economic future, and little or nothing has been achieved.

I note that mention is made in the program of the government that it is going to establish a number of new agencies and programs, laying special emphasis on those using our primary products • I trust that the government has come to the conclusion that in the development of our natural resources and our primary products it may be necessary for gov ernment itself to undertake a program of direct participation in establishing secondary indust ries in the province. It is noted that reference is made in the speech to a product development fund.

It may be that this fund is the fund that the government will use to establish these industries in the Prov ince of Manitoba. I think, Madam Speaker, that we must all realize that any economic planning cannot be left in the hands of private investors alone as it was in the past, particularly in such a Province as Manitoba. The development of the resources of Manitoba, both human and natural, will call for the united efforts of all sections of the community.

It will require an understanding between all ranks of government, industrialists, financiers and labour; In the past the government has been prone to give lip service to this type of co-operation, but steps to achieve this co-operation are now of paramount importance to the future of our province. We await the report of the recent trade mission to Europe, to see what, if anything , has been accomplished by this mission. Preliminary reports garnered from the press indicate that outside of informing a few people in the Old Land that there is a Province of Manitoba, not much more was accomplished.

However, as I say, It must be, and I trust it will be, revealed that the commission did enhance the future course for Manitoba. I note that a similar commission is proposed to go to the United States. The worthwhileness of this venture will be based on the March 5th, 1963. Page 35 I I I i � I I I

report of the commission that went across to the Old Land. It is noted that the government intends to increase the funds available for educational and technical education. I think that this is a proper step for the government to take, and I welcome it. It is noted that new construction will be undertaken at The Pas and at Brandon, and I suggest to the government that it is of paramount importance to have as companions to this program, the availability of industries in order that the benefits of a technical training can be put to use.

This also applies, of course, to the classes which are to be instituted for free vocational training in Flin Flon, Dauphin, Gimli and ether areas. It is appreciated that the great majority of those who are presently unemployed are in the classification as being un skilled, but unless the development of our secondary industries increase in comparison with the numbers of people available for jobs, then we will simply have a transfer of the ranks of the unemployed in Manitoba changing from those of unskilled to skilled, unless we provide j.ob opportunities for them.

And I say that that is one of the big jobs that we have to do here in the Legislature. Reference is made in the Throne Speech to two important steps taken in the field of municipal government. One , the setting up of the Metro Review Commission; the other a Royal Commission on the problems of organization and finance of municipal governments . I suggest that the author of the Throne Speech ignored another group which haS undertaken a survey of municipal government in Manitoba. I refer to the Murray Fisher Enquiry Commis sion.

I recall, Madam Speaker, as I'm sure that you will, that almost on every occasion in the last number of years, that any problem dealing with the question of municipal government and the relationships of municipal government to this government, were raised in this House, the answer of the Minister of Municipal Affairs or the First Minister himself was: "Let's wait and see what the Murray Fisher report has to say about this before we make any decision on the matter." And now, Madam Speaker, that the report of the Murray Fisher Commission has been made, no mention at all of this particular report which is most interesting is men tioned in the Speech of His Honour.

So I suggest to the members, and particularly the new members of this House, that if at all possible they go back over Hansard and read the replies of the Minister opposite and then read the Murray Fisher report. But, now we have heard from this Commission, this Murray Fisher Commission -- and what are their recommendations. To we of the New Democratic Party the foremost is the recommendation that the province undertake to finance those services which bear no relationship to property. These are listed in general as education, welfare, health and hospitals.

The Commission recommends that property taxes be ori.ly used for services benefitting property and all others be paid for by provincial revenues. We of the New Democratic Party think they're right. This was our main proposal during the election in November and December. I can appreciate the fact that the First Minister and members of the Conservative Party, or even the members of the Liberal Party, can say to me ''Yes, but look what happened to your party with such a proposal". Be that as it may be, I want to point out that we are not alone in this proposal, as evidenced by the Fisher report.

I'm sure that my friends of the Liberal Party would agree that Mayor Henderson of Portage la Prairie or Mayor Kushner of West Kildonan are not members of the New Demo cratic Party. I wonder , Madam Speaker, whether I should not say to the Honourable Members of the Conservative Party that Davie Fulton in British Columbia is no member of the New Democratic Party; but what are the proposals that Davie Fulton is making in British Columbia to the electorate there?

In a press release of January 24th outlining a program of the Conser vative Party in British Columbia the new leader, Davie Fulton, had this to say: "That the new proposals of the Conservatives would be to adopt the municipalities' union plan reserving municipal -property tax for services to property.

Second, to work toward provincial payment of lOO% of education costs; third, and to place a small surcharge on income tax if necessary in order to cover the rising costs of education." Further support of our contention comes from the figures compiled by the Canadian Tax Foundation, as illustrated in an editorial of the Winnipeg Tribune on January the 29th of this year, and in reading this, Madam Chairman, may I point out to the House that this great paper was one of the papers that vigorously attacked myself as leader of my party, and my party, because of the proposition that we laid before the electorate of Manitoba.

What is it saying now, editorially? Referring to the Canadian Tax Foundation, it says it recognizes that the share borne by homeowners is excessive. In its most recent Page 36 March 5th, 1963.

broch ure on municipal finances the Foundation sugge sts that a more equitable sharing might be achieved if the province s were to accept full responsibility for operation costs of schools, and local authorities were assigned construction costs . This would mean in general terms, that the province would provide 80% of the costs of schools, and the local authoritie s 20% . Furthe r support, Madam Chair man, to the contention of ours, and also of the Murray Fisher report , comes from our Canadian Farm Forum who also say that property taxes should pay for local improvements and services only.

So I say, Madam Speaker, that despite the ora tions of my honourable friend, the leader of the House , at Swan River, wherein he attacked us -- as indeed it's his perfect ri ght to do - and pointed out , I think rather unjustly, that our propositions whould have cost the taxpayer of Manitoba an additional hundred millions of dollars, I want him now to take a look at it in light of the commissio n, the Murray Fisher commission in light of what the conservatives are doi:r:.g in British Columbia, and others , because he well knows it was not our contention at all to add a hundred mi llion dollars of costs to the people of Manitoba, but a re-allocation of the basis of the costs of education as are now being sugge sted by the conservative s of British Columbia and the Murray Fisher Commission here in the Province of Manitoba.

I only want to make one comment at this time , Madam Speaker , respecting the commis sion set up to review Metro corpora tion , and the relationship between the area municipalities and Metro , and that is this: that I have not been able to find in the recomm endations or in the refe ren ces by the government to this commission, any reference to what is the most important problem that is facing Metro and the area municipalities -- and that is the question of provin cial municipal finance in respect to the Greater Winnipeg are a, and in particular Metro gov ernm ent itself,

whereas I read the terms of referencre as contained in propaganda sheet issued on October 1st, 1961 -- "the terms of reference for the Review Commission require that it report and recommend on financial relations hips of the Metro corporation and the area municipalities; the form and structure of the Metro government with a view to the adjustment of any factors that·will be more effective relationshipwise with the area municipalities; the structure and methods of inter governmental relationship of Metro government and area municipalities; the boundar ies of Metro corpora tion; and in general, all matte rs per tinent to metropolitan government in Greater Winnipeg not being inconsistent with matte rs her ein before Metro ." No directive at all to the commission inves tigating Metro to find out whether or not that this government here has accepted its re sponsibilities of its own legislation in providing to Metro government the wherewithal in order to properly function.

Many other matt ers are contained in the Speech from the Throne , ·M adam Speaker. Note is made of the fact that the costs of education are incre asing, and assuredly they are. I think that all members of this House are pleased to note there is an expansion in the educational facilities in the Province of Manitoba; but I am sure they will all agree that the job yet is not completed, that there are many areas which remain untouched.

I wonder whether or not the government has given any considera tion to undertaking another study --they're great on studies -- possibly the Commission that has been set up under the Honourable Roland Michener has a direc tive to do this, but I'm not sure -- and that is a complete review of the number of school boards that we have here in the Province of Manitoba.

I'm informed that at the present time there are almost as many school trust ees -- and these gentlemen and women are doing an invaluable job in the Province of Manitoba -- but there are about almost as many school .tr ustees as there are school teachers, that there are about fifteen hundred local school districts in the Province of Manitoba -- and I wonder whether the Commis sion have been asked to investigate this matter, to see whether or not it may be possible to bring within the orbit of the forty-two present school divisions, or some other method, a lesser number or a grea ter area of administra tion insofar as our school distr icts are concerned .

It may be, Madam Speaker , that by some method such as this, that some of the costs of education could be reduced at this particular level and be used for the advancement of education in other fields, and I would suggest to the government a complete review of this whole area. Reference is made in the Speech from the Throne , Madam, of the question of the extension of the Agricultural Cr edit Act in respect of loans to cattle produ cers.

I note that there seems to be a fear among some of the cattle produc ers in the province that this may loosen up the field too much insofar as the overall advantage of the cattle industry is concern ed. I would March 5th, 1963 . Page 37

a.�g�st to tiiJ�e in the cattle industry, that if they have a fear because of an expansion in the :ljid�$try )�t it might affect them adversely, that they should undertake consideration of settfrig _tip marketing boards and producer co-ops in order that their products may be dealt with mcire favorably to themselves • .. I #ote also, Madam Chairman, in the Speech from the Throne, that reference is made to "additional appropriations will be sought by my Ministers to improve rehabilitation programs in respect of the physically handicapped.

" I want to ask the Minister responsible what steps iE! he taking to assure the people of the Province of Manitoba whose children are affected, what steps are they taking to obtain additional personnel qualified to undertake special speech t_¥rapy in the Province of Manitoba, and in particular the Greater Winnipeg area, for I have liad a number of people come to me asking that this matter be reviewed, and I trust that the Ministers opposite will be giving this matter their consideration.

One further point in the Speech from the Throne as on the hustings during the past election, we are now reading more and more about the great vision of our honourable friend opposite --with which I agree considerably --the development of hydro electrical energy in the North. I note the other day that an agreement was signed between the Government of Manitoba and the Government of Canada in respect of surveys of this great area.

I want to know of the First Minister, who I believe is in charge of this department, what if any are the implications contained in this joint agreement with the Dominion Government, because it seems to I!le tlnt where an expenditure of a hundred million dollars is agreed to between two parties, that each of the parties --or a million dollars for a survey --then there must be some catch to it, and I would like to bear the assurance --oh yes, my friends , my friends laugh --but I say to them this, that if the federal government is not the type of government- and they should not be the type of government which will simply hand over to another administration a half a million dollars without having some assurance of a refund on the investment.

And if my honourable friends think they should, then I think that they are poor business people . I would also like to know --it seems to me that in the development of electrical energy, that every year sees an emphasis in the new development of the use of nuclear energy in hydro power development.

I know just the other day reference was made to a development down in Ontario which has been started --it's ahead of it 's time "--and it does seem, it does seem as though the growth of the development of electrical energy to nuclear energy is on the increase -- and I would suggest to the members opposite that this be thoroughly taken into consideration at the same time that the surveys are being made in respect of hydro development in northern Mani toba. Now, Madam Speaker, I have touched on a few of the problems which I think face Mani tobans.

I cannot accept, and do not accept, "the flowery terminology of the Speech from the Throne. There is a big job to be done in the Province of Manitoba, and I sincerely trust and hope that the members of the New Democratic Party in this House, and our supporters , wherever they may be, will assist in the development of our province and our nation --and I believe we will. I know in a couple of sessions past ,that I was accused of buttering up the government opposite, by my friends on my right. I want to say, I want to say •• (interjection) •• oh, but you didn't say it!

Well, I don't know whether my honourable friend, the First Minister will exonerate me or not •. I recall a T. V. show that was held just prior to the day of the election, when he was glad to be able to say that we and the N. D.P. did this, but they did not.

He was glad enough to use me then, and I am sure that there will be times, Madam Speaker , when he will be glad of the assistance from this particular group •• (interjection) •• No, he wasn't! (interjection) Yes , possibly the Honourable Member for Lakeside, Madam Speaker , hit the nail on the head when he said "I guess that' s what cost you your votes ." But anyway, I want to assure through you, Madam Speaker, the people of the Province of Manitoba that we will be doing our utmost to assist in the progress of this legislature and of this province.

I want to say in closing, to the new members of this Assembly, that I sincerely trust and hope that they will find their stay here with us very educational and interesting. I was thinking just the other day, Madam Speaker, that I had the honour of joining the Legislature as the result of an election in 1953 . There are 57 members in this House , the mortality rate is terrific, because there are only 8 left in this House that were here prior to 1953 . That's all that are left. There has been a complete change, and I must confess that while we were thinking Page 38 March 5th, 1963 .

of the resolutions of condolences that I also thought of the mortality rate in this Legislature. Our mortality rate this year was three , so far, but it will not decrease our endeavors . We are not satisfied with the Government; we are not wholly satisfied with the amendment that was proposed by the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition because we do not think that it's specific enough. And now Madam Speaker, I would like to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Inkster, that the amendment be amended by inserting between the words "Manitoba" and "and" in the third line , the following: "By failing to provide measures such as :

(1) A Comprehensive Health Plan;

(2) The easing of the burden of real property taxation at the local level;

(3) The making it financially possible for every Manitoban to acquire education to the highest level he or she can attain. Madam Speaker put the question. :MR. ELMAN GUTTORMSON (St. George) : Madam Speaker , I move, se conded by the Honourable Member for Neepawa, that the debate be adjourned. Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. :MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Attorney General, that the House do now adjourn. Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried and the House adjourned until 2:30 Wednesday afternoon. March 5th, 1963 • Page 39

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	27-1-4
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	27th 1st hansardpdf 4.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c5ea582c6879b3ed31e8c9068742a115f46df4ed

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