Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 18 (37th Legislature, 4th Session)

37-4-18

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 18 – 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, April 29, 2003

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY First Session–Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. VACANT Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P.

McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C.

SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

685 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, April 29, 2003 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Supported Living Program Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition and these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government's Supported Living Program provides a range of supports to assist adults with a mental disability to live in the community in their residential option of choice, including a family home.

The provincial government's Community Living Division helps support adults living with a mental disability to live safely in the com- munity in the residential setting of their choice. Families with special-needs dependants make lifelong commitments to their care and well-being and many families choose to care for these individuals in their homes as long as circumstances allow. The cost to support families who care for their special-needs dependants at home is far less than the cost of alternate care arrangements such as institutions or group and foster home situa- tions.

The value of the quality of life experienced by special-needs dependants raised at home in a loving family environment is immeasurable. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Mani- toba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Mr. Caldwell) consider changes to the departmental policy that pays family members a reduced amount of money for room and board when they care for their special- needs dependants at home versus the amount paid to a non-parental care provider outside the family home.

To request that the Minister of Family Services and Housing consider examining on a case-by-case basis the merits of paying family members to care for special-needs dependants at home versus paying to institutionalize them. This is presented on be half of Ernie Penner, Gail Loewen, Abe Loewen, Val Harder and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. Provincial Road 304 Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition.

The back- ground of this petition is as follows: Provincial Road 304 is the main connector road between Provincial Trunk Highway No. 11 and Provincial Trunk Highway No. 59 for res- idents in Pine Falls, Powerview, St. George, Great Falls, Manigotagan and Bissett who wish to travel in a southwesterly direction to Selkirk and to Winnipeg. Provincial Road 304 from Provincial Trunk Highway No. 11 is in a southwesterly direction, is travelled by approximately 1000 vehicles daily and shortens the travel time to Winnipeg by at least 30 minutes.

The 14 kilometres of Provincial Road 304 to the south of Provincial Trunk Highway No. 11 is in very poor condition, has no shoulders and winds among granite outcroppings and through swamps, creating very dangerous and very treacherous conditions for the travelling public. At least six people have died needlessly in the last eight years on the 14 kilometre stretch of Provincial Road 304 south of Powerview.

686 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Mani- toba as follows: To request that the Minister of Transpor- tation and Government Services (Mr. Smith) consider rebuilding and reconstructing the 14 kilometres of Provincial Road 304 to the south of Provincial Trunk Highway No. 11 at the earliest opportunity. I request this on behalf of Wendy Lavallee, Gary Schewe and Cynthia Zimmerman. * (13:35) Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Holocaust Memorial Day Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): I have a statement for the House, Mr. Speaker. On May 1, 2000, members of the Legis- lature voted unanimously to pass Bill 19,

An Act to Proclaim Holocaust Memorial Day. This year Yom Hashoah, which is the Hebrew name for the day, falls on April 29, or as it is known from the Hebrew calendar, 27 Nisan. Mr. Speaker, I would like to read today from the

preamble to the bill passed in this Chamber and then ask for a moment of silence after the other leaders have spoken to commemorate the victims of the Holocaust.

WHEREAS the Holocaust refers to a specific event in history, namely the deliberate and planned state-sponsored persecution and annihilation of European Jewry by the Nazis and their collaborators between 1933 and '45; and

WHEREAS six million Jewish men, women and children perished under this policy of hatred and genocide, one million of which were children; and

WHEREAS millions of others were victims of that policy because of their mental or physical disabilities, their race, religion or sexual ori- entation; and

WHEREAS the terrible destruction and pain of the Holocaust must never be forgotten; and

WHEREAS the systemic violence, geno- cide, persecution, racism and hatred continue to occur throughout the world; and

WHEREAS the Legislative Assembly is committed to using legislation, education and example to protect Manitobans from violence, racism, hatred and to stopping those who foster or commit crimes of violence, racism and hatred; and

WHEREAS Yom Hashoah or the day of Holocaust as determined in each year of the Jewish lunar calendar is an opportune day to reflect on and educate about the enduring lessons of the Holocaust and to reaffirm a commitment to uphold human rights and the value of the diversity and multiculturalism of Manitoba society. THEREFORE Her Majesty by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba enacts as follows: Holocaust Memorial Day Yom Hashoah. Mr. Speaker, again I would ask after the other leaders speak that we would ask all mem- bers to join me in a moment of silence. Mr.

Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join the First Minister and speak on behalf of our caucus in putting a few words on the record about Holocaust Awareness Week and the Holocaust Memorial Day Yom Hashoah. This Legislature unanimously passed legis- lation that officially designated Holocaust Memorial Day. The fact that more than six million Jewish men, women and children were persecuted for their religious and racial origins is unthinkable. Yet, it nevertheless is a fact of our collective history.

The atrocities of World War II, and indeed all wars, must never be forg otten. It is painful to address these issues, but it must be done. It is the only way to work towards ending hate, dis- crimination and racism. The sad fact of the matter is that systematic genocide, violence,

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 687 racism, hatred and persecution continue to occur around the world in spite of our collective efforts to eradicate these horrible incidents. We wholeheartedly support Holocaust Awareness Week and Holocaust Memorial Day. These events encourage not only remembrance but also education so the past will serve as a lesson for future generations.

Perhaps through continued education our children will be able to achieve what other generations have not been able to do, to put an end to systematic violence, genocide, persecution, racism and hatred that continue to occur throughout the world. We are pleased that Manitoba is one of the provinces that have enacted Holocaust Memorial Day legislation. As legislators, it is important we reaffirm our commitment to uphold human rights and to value the diversity and multi- culturalism of Manitoba society. Canada has a tremendous history of mutual acceptance and tolerance.

Commemorating Yom Hashoah will reinforce the commitment of all Manitobans to fight intolerance and racism in their daily lives. As time passes, it becomes increasingly important to preserve the memory and reality of the Holocaust in order to combat few forms of hatred and xenophobia. * (13:40) Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask leave to speak to the Premier's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, I join the other leaders in remembering the Holocaust and in contributing my words to our joint efforts to decrease racism and to improve human rights in Manitoba and globally. It was a privilege and an honour this morning to be part of the Holocaust awareness program, "Unto Every Person There Is A Name" and to be able to read some 40 or more names into the record to remember these people who perished in the Holocaust. It is important that we remember what has happened in the past so that we prevent it in the future.

I think all of us can look forward to the day when perhaps not so far in the future, we may even have a human rights museum at The Forks to remember and to help us move forward in ensuring tolerance and ensuring that we have a society that is prepared to speak up continually for human rights. Mr. Speaker: Would members please rise for a moment of silence? A moment of silence was observed. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 13–The Domestic Violence and Stalking Prevention, Protection and Compensation Amendment Act Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women (Ms. McGifford), that Bill 13, The Domestic Violence and Stalking Prevention, Protection and Compensation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la violence familiale et la protection, la prévention et l'indemnisation en matières de harcèlement criminel, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Mackintosh: This bill will allow persons who do not just cohabit but others such as victims of dating violence and other family members, for example, such as seniors, to apply to the court for protection and prevention orders and as well enables a greater access to the protection in that legislation by victims of domestic violence. Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from Salisbury Morse Place School 22 Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. John Thompson. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister (Mr. Doer).

688 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 Also in the public gallery we have from Linden Christian School 26 Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Mark Glor. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Loewen). Also in the public gallery from Churchill High we have 15 Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Ed Lenzmann. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Advanced Education and Training (Ms. McGifford).

On behalf of all honourable members, I elcome you here today. w * (13:45) ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Taxation Provincial Comparisons Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, heading into the Budget that was just brought down by the Doer government, groups such as the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, the CFIB, the Winnipeg and Manitoba Chamber of Commerce, editorial boards were all pleading for this First Minister to provide meaningful tax relief to Manitobans. The Premier had the opportunity to do so and he failed. In 1999, Mr.

Speaker, before he was the Premier, a family of four earning $40,000 paid $485 less provincial income tax than the identical family in Saskatchewan. Yet in 2003, under the Doer government, that same family of four earning $40,000 is paying $332 more provincial income tax than that identical family living in Saskatchewan. Th at is a difference of $817 to the family in Manitoba. Why is the Premier unable to compete even with Sas- katchewan? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, the member opposite would know that the 2000 tax tables included all the legacy of the Conservative government in terms of their tax decisions. He would also probably want to reflect on the fact– [interjection] Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, they would probably want to reflect on the fact that in Saskatchewan the Devine government, a Conservative govern- ment I might add, eliminated both the property tax credits and the municipal tax-sharing agree- ments, which constitute in our Budget the municipal tax-sharing agreement is about 79 million.

I am looking to our members on that issue and if I recall correctly somewhat over $160 million on the property tax credit side. Mr. Speaker, the property tax credit is $400. The members opposite, when they take the $400 plus even the example they used from their own tax tables of the past, we would be ahead with the $400 property tax credit. The members opposite should also know that if they check the last Budget from the honourable Member for Minnedosa (Mr.

Gilleshammer), he said that in Manitoba we have to sustain tax decreases, when he was being criticized by the same group of individuals the member opposite is quoting today, we have to sustain our tax cuts because we in Manitoba not only have to balance our budgets but we also have a schedule, at that point, 75 million, to pay down the debt. Since then, Mr. Speaker, the debt payment is about 96. In fact, it is exactly 96 million a year.

If you look at Manitoba's debt rate of $6.2 million, if you look at the Free Press, from last week's Budget, you will see that Saskatchewan's operating debt is well over 11 billion. Ours is about $6 billion. Paying down debt, reducing taxes and investing in health and education, that is the way that most Manitoba families want us to bring in budgets. That is what we have done. I would suggest that members opposite vote for this Budget, th ey vote for a 6% middle- income tax cut, Mr. Speaker. It is a larger tax cut than they ever brought in themselves when they had the chance to be in office. * (13:50) Mr.

Murray: Mr. Speaker, in 1999, a family of four earning $60,000 paid $253 less provincial income tax than an identical family living in Saskatchewan. That is a difference of $1,195 and that is something that this Premier should reflect upon. Is that what this Premier calls the Manitoba Advantage?

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 689 Mr. Doer: I know that members opposite cut the property tax credit, which had a particularly tough impact on Manitoba seniors who are on fixed income. They went from $325 to $250 and then they called it a spending decrease instead of a tax increase. We introduced a promise in the 1999 election campaign to increase the property tax credit to $400. They do not have that in Saskatchewan. Four times three is $1,200, again a higher amount than the member opposite cited. Mr.

Murray: This Premier has provided taxpayers almost no meaningful tax relief since he has come into office. One of the very first actions that they tried to do on the other side was they tried to take credit for an $80-million tax break that was announced in the 1999 Budget. As well, this Premier denied Manitobans some $30 million in tax relief that would have flowed as a result of the federal reduction. The Premier loves to throw around big numbers in the House, but he does not mention the fact that his Government has taken in more provincial income tax than they have offered taxpayers.

Why does this Premier insist on making hardworking middle-income Manitobans the highest taxed west of New Brunswick? Mr. Doer: We have chosen to have a balanced approach between investing in health, investing in education, investing in the future economy, reducing taxes more than twice as much as members opposite, or flattening out the property tax pressure on people that they had increased over time. We will compare every school divi- sion with every member , with your increases between 1990 and 1999 and our ability to flatten that out.

We are willing to go at every increase in property tax credit with members opposite. Mr. Speaker, $220 million are our tax decreases and we did not even campaign on it; $220 million versus $120 million in their 11 years. We are way ahead of them and we continue to pay down debt. Manitoba's debt rate now is second only to Alberta, and we think that is a balanced way to proceed into the future. First Nation Casinos Funding Mr. Harold Gilleshammer (Minnedosa): Mr.

Speaker, both the requests for proposals and the selection committee report on Native casinos are very clear that the proponent will be responsible for the financing and construction of the project and that equipment must be paid for by the proponent. I would ask the Premier: Has any taxpayer money or general purpose revenue been used to fund Native casinos? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister responsible for The Gaming Control Act): Mr. Speaker, I am assuming that the member's question is in regard to the development of the Aseneskak Casino in The Pas.

That casino is being fully paid for through its own proceeds and the payback of capital to the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation for the machines which are in that casino. The capital of the casino came from both First Nations who advanced capital as well as from bank financing, and those financings are being paid back through the operational proceeds of the casino. Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a Cabinet document and Order-in- Council with the Clerk. This Order-in-Council indicates that upwards of $5 million was advanced by the Government of Manitoba to pay for the Native-run casinos.

The Order-in-Council is clear. It also states that up to $29 million was budgeted. This Order-in-Council is signed by the Minister of Finance. Can you confirm that this $5 million, upwards of $5 million, was used for the construction of that Native casino? * (13:55) Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the simple explanation on that public document, which we made available after Cabinet rendered a decision on what it was, it is a line of credit to facilitate the development of that. A line of credit, as you know, is something that is repayable. Mr.

Gilleshammer: Clearly, this Government is financing the construction and the equipment of Native casinos. Why was that Order-in-Council that was passed in March of 2002 not released until March of 2003? That Order-in-Council was held for one year. What is the reason for that? Mr. Sale: Well, Mr. Speaker, very interesting to have questions coming from this member when

690 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 it was their Government which did not put any of the capital expansion of the casinos in Win- nipeg on the books, which hid that money from the people of Manitoba. It is incredible. I would suggest that the member opposite simply read Item 2. The loans to the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation bear interest at the rates established by the Minister of Finance under The Financial Administration Act. In other words, they are fully funded by the operation of the casino and if they are drawn upon, if they are used, they will be fully paid, Mr. Speaker.

First Nation Casinos Funding Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday, May 24, 2000, in this House, the Minister then responsible for Northern and Aboriginal Affairs stated em- phatically to this House and the people of Manitoba: "No money will be used by the provincial Treasury in the establishment of these casinos." Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to table those comments made. Today, Mr. Speaker, we find out that this Government through an Order-in-Council has authorized the funding of $5 million to an Aboriginal casino in northern Manitoba. The question today is: Who is telling the truth?

Was it the Minister of Northern Affairs then or the new Minister responsible for Gaming? Who is telling Manitobans the truth? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister responsible for The Gaming Control Act): Mr. Speaker, let me help the member with a bit of orientation around the Criminal Code of Canada. Under the Criminal Code of Canada, the operation of lotteries is under a provincial authority, and the ownership of the gaming equipment must be in the hands of that provincial authority, in this case, the Mani- toba Lotteries Corporation. The Manitoba Lot- teries Corporation purchased machines for the use of Aseneskak.

Aseneskak is paying through its proceeds for those machines on a monthly basis. They are current in their payments. They are not behind in their payments. The purpose of the loan to the Lotteries Corporation which normally makes those kinds of purchases is to give them that authority to do that, which they require under the Criminal Code of Canada. If he would do his research, he would know that and I would say, again, Mr.

Speaker, it would have been really nice if the $158 million of debt which they incurred for the building of casinos in Winnipeg had been revealed to the public and put on the public debt where it belongs. Mr. Tweed: Mr. Speaker, therefore, the minister is saying to Manitobans that the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs lied to this House and lied to Manitobans back in 2000 when he said no funding was coming from the provincial govern- ment to support Aboriginal casinos.

I ask the minister again today: Will he confirm to Manitobans that $5 million has been allocated to the Aboriginal casino in northern Manitoba and that a total of $29 million has been allocated to help in the funding of the building and construction of these Aboriginal casinos in Manitoba? Will he just confirm that? * (14:00) Mr. Sale: Mr. Speaker, again I would ask the member to read: To make loans to the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation. That is to whom the loan was made. What did the minister actually say? The current Member fo r Morris (Mr.

Pitura) said: Were the funds from the provincial Treas- ury to be used to help fund the construction of the casinos? The answer is no. It was no then, it is no now. They bought machines which are being paid for by the casino because the Criminal Code of Canada with which members opposite should be familiar requires that those machines be owned by the Lotteries Corporation. Mr. Tweed: What the minister does not get is the fact that he is telling Manitobans one thing and doing another and then saying nobody understands.

The report clearly suggests that the MLC will own the gaming equipment but it must be paid for by the proponent.

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 691 How does a statement like that coincide with the minister's statement that he said: "No money will be used by the provincial Treasury in the establishment of these casinos"? Mr. Speaker, the Government is allocating $29 million to the construction of Aboriginal casinos in Manitoba. When they are talking about health care suffering, when the minister cannot find $11 million for an immunization program, they are building casinos in northern Manitoba. Mr.

Sale: First of all, I can assure the rather hysterical member that the fact he said no money would be used in the construction, that the ma- chines would have to be owned by the Lotteries Corporation, is absolutely correct. I am glad he has finally got that correct. I would like him also to understand that every VLT in the province, whether it is in a hotel or a bar or in an Aboriginal community, is owned by the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation, financed by the Lotteries Corporation. The Lot- teries Corporation in turn has the ability to have authority to borrow from the Province, like any Crown authority.

This is simply the same way we have done business with all corporations. The member is using the word "lie" from his seat. I think it is inappropriate, given that the facts are clear. No money was used in the con- struction. The machines are owned by MLC. That was the body to whom the loan was granted, MLC, not the casino. They are current in their loans. They are paying back what they owe. School Division Amalgamations Salary Harmonization Costs Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, amalgamations of school divisions have cost their local taxpayers millions and millions of dollars.

According to the Manitoba Association of School Trustees, school division amal- gamation was legislated without a plan and without consideration of the financial conse- quences of the merger. Today school divisions are facing millions of dollars of new costs which are being passed on to the local ratepayers. Will the Minister of Education today com- mit to paying the costs of harmonizing wage settlements in all of the amalgamated school divisions, as he did in the case of the dispute in the Sunrise School Division? Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Minister of Education and Youth): It is a pleasure for me to address the question from the member opposite. As a government, we put a number of dollars forward, $3.6 million with regard to helping divisions with amalgamation. We realized that all the benefits from amalgamation would not happen overnight, but what is a really important point to make with regard to taxation, which the mem- bers opposite often like to throw jabs about around the Legislature, I just want to clarify a ouple of points for the members opposite. c In Springfield alone, between 1990 and 1999, taxes increased by $428.

Under our Gov- ernment, the taxes have decreased by $58. If there is anything smelling a little bit fishy, and that the member opposite from Springfield often likes to make reference to, it is that those taxpayers in Springfield have to put up with a $428 tax increase from the 1990s from the Tory government at that time. Mr. Derkach: Mr.

Speaker, I wish the minister would focus his attention on the question and nswer the question that was asked. a Can the minister explain to this House and to Manitobans why he intervened by providing direct cash in a wage dispute between a school division and its unions and has not provided any direction with regard to harmonization of salaries in other school divisions that have experienced amalgamation? Mr. Lemieux: I mentioned in my previous answer the benefits of amalgamation are going to happen. We realize that it takes a number of years for these benefits to take place.

We understand that and I am sure the member opposite in Russell understands it does take some time. When you want to talk about taxation and what happens with the results of taxation, and they like to compare what has happened before and now, and I would like to be clear about this.

692 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 So I would like to reference, for example, in the Russell area, taxes went up by $234 from 1990 to 1999 during the previous government, and the taxes have decreased by $190 under our Gov- ernment. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister again how he can justify interfering in a collective bargaining process. This is a collective bargaining process between a union and a school board.

How can this minister justify interfering in a collective bargaining process just prior to the potential election call when in fact he has been caught in an embarrassing situation in terms of the amalgamation and its costs, where other school divisions are now ringing the phones off the wall asking us whether the min- ister, in fact, will do the same for them as he did for Sunrise? Mr. Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, what is embar- rassing is when you take a look at the increase in–[interjection] Mr. Speaker, the member from Springfield often likes to chirp around the Legislature.

Let him go back and explain why the taxes increased $428 from 1990 to 1998. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. May I remind all honour- able members that decorum is very important in this House. We have guests in the gallery, we have the viewing public and time is scarce for Question Period. I ask the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Mr. Lemieux: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I want to be fair to the member from Springfield. He was not part of the previous government but having said that, the facts do speak for themselves.

If he wants to be fair about it, take a look at the record, and the record is clear. Also, the member from Lac du Bonnet should take a look at the increase in Agassiz, $343 increase from 1990 to 1999. So both of those members opposite should take a look at the facts and they will see what happened to education with regard to under the Tories compared to us, and we win, hands down. * (14:10) Education Support Levy Elimination Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr.

Speaker, the records show that this Government has broken its election promise from 1999 to eliminate the Education Support Levy in years three and four of its mandate. The Doer government's all-time low funding of the operating costs of public education is at 57.5 percent. This minister's piecemeal approach to the ESL has done nothing for the property owners of the school divisions of Manitoba. Does the minister not recognize that his off- loading has simply resulted in forcing cash- starved school divisions to turn to property owners to make up for his funding shortfall in this province? Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Minister of Education and Youth): Mr. Speaker, taking a look at the overall spending with regard to our Government, there has been approximately a $300-million increase with regard to spending in our Gov- ernment. Under the Tory regime there was $100- million cut in the 1990s. The member opposite raises a couple of points with regard to education funding. The ESL on residential properties, we made a commitment we would certainly be looking at that area and we have addressed it. Mr. Speaker, $27 million over the last couple of years is a great, great advantage for the taxpayer.

You know, it is around $61 on a $100,000 home. Plus our Education Property Tax Credit that we give is a real benefit for taxpayers in Manitoba. Overall spending with regard to education: when you take a look at the pensions that our Government pays for, we pay for capital costs as well as operational. It is around 73 percent of educational spending. We are very, very proud of our record. We have a lot more work to do. We do not have it perfect but we continue to work every day to addre ss the 1990s that were put before us. Mr. Maguire: Mr.

Speaker, it is obvious that he has not been working hard enough at that election promise. Why does this minister continue to defend this position when it is offloading on all the property owners of

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 693 Manitoba? He knows full well that their col- lective property tax bill in the province of Manitoba for all taxpayers has continued to increase this year. Mr. Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, the numbers that I have before me, every division that we take a look at with regard to the members opposite, as the Premier mentioned before, any day we want to compare and have a debate with regard to taxation, in the 1990s and what the previous Tory government laid on the taxpayers, it is sinful what they did to the taxpayers of Manitoba.

Not only did they tax them to death, they let the schools run down. We have mould, leaky roofs in schools, everywhere across the province, every corner of the province. They should be embarrassed by what they did to the public education system in the 1990s. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Speaker, this minister's song and dance has done nothing for the property owners of this province: 14% increase in Transcona, 13 percent this year in St. James, a 30% increase in Brandon since 2000. Why has he broken his Leader's election commitment to eliminate the Education Support Levy in Manitoba by now? Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, I recommend strongly that members opposite– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the promise in the election campaign was to increase in our first Budget the property tax credit by an increase of $75 which would be subtracted off the property tax bill. We promised it; we delivered it. In the second year, the promise was to increase it again to $75 to go ultimately for the Tory number of $250 to $400. We promised it. We delivered it in our second Budget. Our third Budget we promised, if finances allowed, we would phase down the ESL.

We did that in Budget three and Budget four. We have gone from $97 million on the property tax homeowner's side down $27 million. We prom- ised in year three and y ear four we would phase that down. We delivered it. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. If members wish to have a conversation, we have lots of room in the loge, lots of room in the hallway. Right now, the honourable Member for River Heights has the floor. I ask the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Wuskwatim Hydro Project Environmental Assessment Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, members of this Legislature have noted the flip–flopping and dipsy-doodling that the NDP government has done on the licensing process for Wuskwatim Dam. I would ask the minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board to explain the Govern- ment's flip-flop on the question of a review by the Public Utilities Board of the Wuskwatim Dam. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, I am proud of the fact that we have an agreement between ourselves and the federal government for the first time ever to have a comprehensive Clean Environment Commission review to look at demand-side and the results of the demand- side saving, to look at the whole issue of the potential windmill megawatts that will be generated and, thirdly, to look at the Wuskwatim Dam and its impact both environmentally and financially here in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, we believe strongly that the federal and provincial governments should be involved in a comprehensive hearing.

Secondly, we also believe strongly that we should just not look only at a dam, but we should look at all the sources of renewable energy. For the first time ever, I am proud that our ministers have come forward with that idea. We also believe that the public must understand and knows the law in terms of rates. The PUB is charged with the issue of rates. We wanted to make it perfectly clear that this would be referred to the PUB.

694 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 We have confidence, Mr. Speaker, in what we are doing. We have confidence by the procedures we are taking. For the first time ever in Manitoba, we will have a comprehensive fed- eral-provincial review. We believe that is a very positive idea. Mr. Gerrard: It is odd to have a comprehensive review and then backtrack and have a PUB. Mr.

Speaker, I table documents which are from the Public Registry which are letters written by an ADM in the Department of Conservation indicating very clearly that the Government was committed to a PUB review, very firmly, sometime ago, and this decision to reverse that has created problems. I ask the Premier: Is the real reason for the flip-flop not a realization that the clear com- mitments in these documents to a PUB review might have led to legal challenges and additional delays to the Wuskwatim hearings if the PUB were excluded from the review? Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, if you will look at Hansard from a year ago, I said that there would be a PUB review of Wuskwatim. I also said we were looking at the sequencing of environmental hearings and the requirement on rates dealing with the PUB. That was in May of 2002. You did not need to get a letter that came after that. It was right here in the House. We think it is a positive way to proceed under the Clean Environment Commission. It is different than the past, getting a comprehensive federal-provincial licensing process that looks both at need and impact. At the same time, we think it is very, very positive.

It is very con- sistent with the COSDI recommendations to the Government, and it is the first time we have been able to actually implement it in a compre- hensive way with the federal jurisdiction. We think this is good for the federal government. We think it is good for First Nations that are involved in this proposal. We think it is good for Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, if we are talking about clarifying how we are going to get something approved, at least we know what we want to do. We believe that hydro should be used for the benefit of all the public, and we believe as a government in building hydro.

We never called Limestone lemonstone like the Liberal Party. We know what we are going to have to do to build Manitoba, and, if an approval process needs some clarity in terms of the process, the approval process, we think the process we have estab- lished makes a lot of sense for Manitoba. * (14:20) Red River Floodway Expansion Environmental Review Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): This constantly switching horses in midstream is creating confusion. I asked the Minister of Conservation (Mr.

Ashton) in my supplementary to tell the House the process and timing of the environmental review of the expansion of the Red River Floodway, or is this process going to be wrapped in a similar level of confusion as the assessment process for Wuskwatim Dam? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member opposite should understand that people actually keep track of what he is saying and his party is saying in one community to another. I recall 18 months ago the only party in Manitoba that did not support the floodway expansion option was the single Liberal member.

His party is selling Liberal memberships to stop the expansion of the floodway and promising in the election in Selkirk to stop the expansion of the floodway in Selkirk. In Winnipeg, Mr. Speaker, they are calling on us to do it quicker. Remember when a year ago they were calling on us to build the floodway expansion quicker. He did not say get the environmental assessment. He has two dif- ferent positions 30 miles apart. He should be accountable for his confusion. Bridging Generations Program Update Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): Mr.

Speaker, all of us on this side of the House, including our newest addition to this side of the House, are very concerned that we enact legis- lation and take an approach to encourage young

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 695 farmers and beginning farmers to stay on the land. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Food. Can she tell the House what the Government has been doing to increase the number of young and beginning farmers in rural Manitoba? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for that question because it is a very important issue. When we came into office we recognized that there was an aging farm population and that there was great difficulty with the transfer of the land to the next gen- eration.

We brought in place a program called Bridging Generations, which the member opposite, who is my critic, thought that program was quite a joke. Well, I can tell you that since the program began in April of 2002, we have approved 123 loans for a total of $14.5 million and ap- proximately 75 percent are farms transferring within the family. We recognize that there are young people that want to get into agriculture and we are working with them, but I want to also tell my colleague and members of the House that members opposite talk about people leaving Manitoba.

I want to tell them that farmers are coming to Manitoba. Farmers from Alberta and Saskatchewan are buying land in Manitoba because there are some difficulties with mois- ture. They recognize the quality of our crops in this area and those people are coming to Man- itoba. Sunrise School Division Salary Harmonization Costs Mr. Gerald Hawran ik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, it was reported in the Winnipeg Free Press yesterday that the Government gave Sunrise School Division $85,000 to help settle the strikes of employees represented by two unions at the school division.

My question to the Minister of Education is this: Given the fact that the Government has provided money to settle the strike of two unions at the division, will the minister provide more money to harmonize the contracts of the employees in the remaining 11 unions who will be negotiating later this year, or will the minister simply let the cost of salary harmonization fall upon the backs of property taxpayers in the division? Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Education and Youth): Mr.

Speaker, I am surprised the member opposite can actually ask that question with a straight face and talk about the taxpayers in the same breath. Mr. Speaker, when we take a look at the Lac du Bonnet area, the former Agassiz School Division, there is a $343 tax increase in the 1990s laid on the heads of the taxpayers in that particular school division, and he actually has the nerve to ask the question with a straight face about taxpayers in the region. Overall we have been very, very supportive of amalgamation. We know the benefits are going to accrue over a number of years and over a period of time.

This Government has con- tinually worked with the school divisions, the amalgamated divisions, to work through some of the challenges that they had. We will always be there with them. We are there with the parents. We are there with the ch ildren of the school division. We are happy to see the strike over, not like the member opposite, who would like to see that strike just continue day and day and day after day. School Division Amalgamations Salary Harmonization Costs Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchels on (River East): The taxpayers, the property taxpayers in River East constituency and the River East-Transcona School Division have asked– [interjection] Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious question. The taxpayers, the property taxpayers in my con- stituency are asking for answers, not arrogance, from government. We know that forced amalgamation of River East-Transcona School Division is going to cost the taxpayers $2 million more, not less, as a result.

The question that my property taxpayers are asking is: Are they going to be treated like second-class citizens by this Government or are they going to be given the same consideration as Sunrise School Division was given, and is money going to be provided by this Government

696 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 to ensure that my taxpayers are treated the same as others in this province? Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Education and Youth): I do not often make comments about others' research teams, but, Mr. Speaker, had they done the research, and the member opposite from River East, had she been so caring in the 1990s, would have certainly taken a look at a $301 increase to the taxes over the 1990s. Also, in Transcona th ere was a $428 increase over the 1990s. Our Government has taken a serious, serious look at taxation. We have looked at ESL.

We have the property tax credit in place. We are certainly, I believe, in sync with the taxpayers of Manitoba with regard to taking a look at the way we approach taxation with regard to education and education funding. We have been able to keep up the programs. We have put more money into capital programs than they ever did and we continue to grow. We work every day. We are not perfect, but we continue to improve the education system every year. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Legacy of Honour Dinner Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr.

Speaker, last Thursday I had the very great pleasure of attending the Legacy of Honour dinner that was held by the Churchill Bulldogs Alumni of Churchill High School. That dinner was put together to honour the football program at the Churchill High School, which has been in existence since 1961 and whose motto is "Pride and Tradition." It was an evening attended by over a hundred people from the community and alumni of the school celebrating the wonderful program and the wonderful experience that many of us enjoyed while playing Bulldogs football.

It was an evening of regaling of old tales, certainly recounting the innumerable trouncings that we gave to St. Paul's or to Kelvin or to many other schools in Winnipeg. Many chants of "Bulldogs rule" were heard throughout the evening. It was a wonderful evening celebrating former players who have been nominated to Churchill's Hall of Fame as well as builders.

I would like to indicate for the record that those inducted into the Hall of Fame were honoured builders: Bill Madder, who was the vice- principal from 1956-62 and principal from 1965- 80; Art Bryant, the head coach from '61 to '62; John Puchniak, head coach from '65 to '70; and Brian Dobie, head coach from '75 to '95; as well as players Roman Kopchuk, Jamie Horne, Barry Heindl, Rick Hiebert, John Nelson, Alun Bowness, Pernell Johnston and Kevin Gauthier, all inducted into the Churchill Bulldogs Hall of ame. F * (14:30) I would indicate, Mr.

Speaker, that program has won six provincial championships and been involved in four others, 10 championships in a span of 42 years. Quite a record for a school which is smaller in proportion than population, and I would just like to once again say Bulldogs rule. Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): Mr. Speaker, I had the pleasure of attending John Taylor's play, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat last week and it was an exceptional performance. Over 125 students participated from six different schools.

It was an amazing performance, great talent, great performance from all the characters, the narrators, et cetera. It was an amazing group and I must congratulate all those students in- volved in addition to the teachers and all the people who supported it. Last night I also had the pleasure of attending the John Taylor family concert, Shine On Music. This family concert had students from Crestview intermediate choir, Crestview boys choir, Voyageur Elementary School, Phoenix Grades 4 and 5 choir, Ness Grades 6 and 7 vocal jazz, Ness Middle School Grade 7 jazzers and again John Taylor High School. It was amazing.

The performances were excellent,

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 697 students were talented and showed amazing poise and confidence. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the school division for their excel- lent music program, for the music teachers, administration staff and volunteers who spent many hours working with the students to develop their skills and talents, the parents who have supported their children and nurtured their talents and all the students who have developed skills of co-operation, self-confidence and music. I believe that this shows how this province has indeed a very, very bright future.

They have done an excellent job. Again tonight there is another school production where Buchanan, Lakewood, Hedges and John Taylor are per- forming. I think what we have to do is work co- operatively with government, parents and schools to ensure that we have the programs to support those students, to build the confidence and skills that we need in the future. Con- gratulations to all the students. It was a very enjoyable evening where everyone had a great time. Thank you very much and keep up the excellent work. Beausejour Area Sporting Events Mr. Gerald Hawran ik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr.

Speaker, I congratulate and thank the com- mittees of the 2003 Western Canada Summer Games, the 2004 Scott Tournament of Hearts and the 2006 Manitoba Winter Games for choosing Beausejour as the site for part of the 2003 Western Canada Summer Games, the 2006 Manitoba Winter Games and the entire site for the 2004 Scott Tournament of Hearts.

I con- gratulate the volunteer committees within our community who made the presentation for each of these events in the town of Beausejour, the rural municipality of Brokenhead, Tyndall and Garson for supporting each of these events and bringing our recreational facilities and our excellent volunteer base to the attention of the entire province.

The new Sungro Centre in Beausejour is Manitoba's newest and one of Manitoba's finest ice facilities in the province, and this facility was built largely without the participation of provincial government funding, which is clearly indicative of the resolve and the commitment of our community and our volunteers. The Beausejour, Brokenhead, Tyndall and Garson area has a history of organizing and supporting major sporting events. The area recently hosted the 41st Annual Canadian Power Toboggan Championship races. For 41 years in a row our community has hosted this national event.

I do not believe there is another com- munity in Canada that can boast hosting a national sporting event 41 years in a row. This is certainly a testament to our com- munity and to the volunteers in our community who dedicate themselves to ensure that our community is a better place to live, to work and to raise our children. We have some of the finest volunteers in the province who dedicate them- selves to the events that are organized in our community year after y ear.

Volunteers provide an identity to every community and the identity provided to the communities of Beausejour, Brokenhead, Tyndall and Garson by our vol- unteers is one of caring, compassion and com- munity spirit, and for that I thank them. Care-a-Lot Nursery Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, I recently had th e opportunity to visit the Care-a-Lot Nurser y Centre at 829 Watt Street along with the Family Services and Housing Minister (Mr. Caldwell) and the At- torney General (Mr. Mackintosh). Mr.

Speaker, before I say more, I must first commend the board and staff at the Care-a-Lot Nursery Centre for the hi gh quality of care the children receive. Through the fundraising pro- gram, the board and staff have created a fine playground with all the new play structures. All the rooms at the centre were neat and tidy, with all the necessary supplies. It is a well-run centre. Also, as the MLA for Rossmere, I appreciate the open line of communication that has developed between the Rossmere constituency office and the executive director of the Care-a- Lot Nursery Centre, Lorraine Maskiw.

It is ap- preciated when the exec utive director brings forward concerns that day care centres face. I

698 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 commend the centre for all the good work they re doing for children. a During the visit to Care-a-Lot Nursery, the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Mr. Caldwell) announced: Support for the Child Day Care Program will increase by $6 million or 8.6 percent.

In the past four budgets, the Manitoba government has increased funding for child care by over $22 million or 41.5 percent to improve salaries, provide additional subsidies, increase the num- ber of funded spaces a nd bring more children ith disabilities into the system. w Funding for children and adults with dis- abilities will increase by an additional $29 million or 10.2 percent. All families with children under 18 re- ceiving income assistance will receive the full National Child Benefit Supplement.

The Mani- toba Government has been restoring the National Child Benefit Supplement since 2000, and when fully implemented, it will result in $13.7 million in additional support. Support for the Applied Behaviour Analysis program will double to $2 million, benefiting all pre-schoolers with autism currently on a waiting list. We are committed to supporting the pri- orities of Manitobans and the values they place on strengthening families and building com- munities. We have made good progress but must continue to help people achieve their fullest potential. Mr.

Speaker, the Government is dedicated to the goals of early childhood development. Manitoba Hydro Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to make some comments about Manitoba Hydro and some of the issues that I see around hydro, but, more importantly, I would like to remind everybody in this House that Manitoba Hydro is a business like no other. It operates in a monopoly provider position while at the same time it is severely regulated and operates in a controlled environment. Mr.

Speaker, what we have seen in the last six months from this Government has been, while some would say confusing, I suggest per- haps deliberately confusing, when we see the Minister of Energy (Mr.

Sale), who mused out loud about nation building because there was one line in the Ontario budget about the potential purchase of hydro-elect ric power and then mused again about a process which was entirely a step in the other direction from all indications the Government has put forward on how it would manage the process for this Crown corp- oration for any future potential significant investments, which we have now seen flipped back again, flip-flopped, if you will, now saying that the Public Utilities Board was intended all along to be responsible for any financial review of the impact of construction. Mr.

Speaker, what we have seen is the oldest game in the history of mankind, bait-and-switch. The shell game is another way of referring to it, where you have the people most affected guess- ing under which shell the process might pop up, and what we have seen is, oh, guess wrong, you are out. So, Mr. Speaker, the future of this Crown is put in jeopardy, and I am sorry to see it happen. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Before going to Orders of the Day, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us Councillor Jae Eadie, who is a councillor in the City of Winnipeg. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ADJOURNED DEBATE (Sixth Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) that this House approve in general the budgetary policy of the Government, and the proposed motion of the honourable Leader of the

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 699 Official Opposition (Mr. Murray), and the de- bate remains open. Order. The honourab le Member for Lake- side, on a point of order? Mr. Harry Enns (Lakeside): I wish to speak on the Budget debate, Sir. * (14:40) Mr. Speaker: First of all, I would like to draw the attention of all members that under our new rules it stipulates that the Speaker shall go back and forth. It is in our ne w rules. Also, to inform the honourable Member for Lakeside, you have already spoken on the Budget debate. That should take care of the matter. Hon.

Eric Robinson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism): I would like to thank you for the opportunity of speaking on the Budget, Mr. Speaker. Let me begin here. I would like to thank the service of members. I do not know if I will have an opportunity later on to do this, so I will do it now. I would like to thank the members for their service in this Legislat ure, for serving Mani- tobans to the best of their ability. Our colleagues on this side of the House: the Member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli); the Member for Wolseley, our Depu ty Premier and Inter- governmental Affairs Minister (Ms.

Friesen); and the Member for Inks ter, the Minister of Labour and Immigration (Ms. Barrett), all of whom will not be seeking re-election, and the recent departure of the Member for Riel (Ms. Asper). I believe that all of these individuals have served our Legislature to the best of their ability and have served Manitobans generally in the work that they did here. Mr. Speaker, I also want to acknowledge and thank the members for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer), Steinbach (Mr. Jim Penner), and especially to my good friend, the Member for Morris (Mr. Pitura).

I believe that these four people have served our province to the best of their ability, both within gov- ernment and outside of government in op- position. They should be proud of the record. All members in this Legislature should be equally as proud of the efforts they have put in on behalf of our fellow citizens. The reasons I got involved in government, Mr. Speaker, were manifo ld. Let me say that the real reason was to make a real difference for Aboriginal people in this province and the people that live in this province, that is, all the people of Manitoba.

I believe we have done our best on this side to make a difference over the past four years. We are proud of our record. Some will be critical of that and I respect that. However, I think we have increased private investment. We have restored some pride into the democratic process. We have restored some understanding for people generally about the political process in our province. I want to say we have doubled the annual rate of job creation as well. The average is now 8000 new jobs per year. The number of jobs created last year was 9100.

Our unemployment rates for all our people and, especially, for young people has been the lowest or second lowest in Canada. Many more young people are working today. Fewer Manitobans have needed income assistance since 1999. I do agree that more has to be done. I believe that, for many of us, we will only be comfortable when these numbers include First Nation communities. The 2003 Budget allows us to continue that work towards a better lifestyle for all Man- itobans, generally.

I want to talk a little bit this afternoon in my capacity as the Minister responsible for Culture, Heritage and Tourism and, to a degree, the Minister responsible for Sport as well. I am proud of the important role that my department has played so far in creating a climate for healthy individuals, people, families and communities. We support a broad range of cultural, arts, heritage, recreation, library and tourism services which we believe benefit Manitobans and their communities. Last week, I was pleased to announce the first increase in a decade to the arts and cultural industries totalling $1.5 million.

As well, I was pleased to announce additional funding to rural

700 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 and northern public libraries. This budget in- vestment adds an additional $750,000 in the promotion and marketing of tourism in our prov- ince and takes advantage of some unique opportunities, and to help refine an Aboriginal tourism strategy. This Budget also provides sup- port for skills training and implementation expenses required by an Aboriginal tourism strategy.

We have increased funding for our Com- munity Places Program and given it more ability to create new jobs and economic activity in the construction industry while recognizing the role of recreational facilities in healthy and pro- ductive communities. This Budget builds on an important element as well, the accomplishments of our Government over the past four years, and supports the important ongoing work of the department that I am responsible for.

Since 1999-2000, Manitoba has invested nearly $128 million in operating project and capital grants to the arts, cultural industries, public libraries and heritage com- munities, an average of about $33 million a year. Among the provinces, Manitoba has the second- highest per capita arts funding in Canada, and also our department is very proud that we support the sustainable development of Man- itoba's arts and cultural communities. Creativity, identity and well-being of Manitobans are di- rectly related, and the arts also contribute to Manitoba's economic viability and global pro- file.

Art is a good thing in itself. Studies tell us that there is a demonstrated effectiveness on the economic value of the arts. We know that arts and culture contribute at least $22 billion to the Canadian economy annually. Over 13 million Canadians each year attend live dance, theatre, opera and music performances, and we believe that this is positive.

Many studies have shown that participation in the arts makes people happier, healthier, both physically and psycho- logically, and exposure to the arts enhances children's ability to learn and can help to develop the habit of critical thinking, an essential ingre- dient for true democracy. Manitobans are rightly proud of the rich and diverse cultural life of this province, and we are very proud to play a role, I believe an important role, in supporting all those working within it.

Highlights of our funding program for the arts include the annual funding provided to the Manitoba Arts Council to enable provision of operating and project grants to performing, visual and literary arts organizations and indi- vidual artists. With the recently announced increase of $500,000, Manitoba Arts Council funding is at about $8.7 million annually. In the past year, the Manitoba Arts Council awarded 314 grants to individual artists and supported 89 professional arts organizations. An example of their innovative work is the recent establishment and distribution of the first Arts Award of Distinction.

The Manitoba Arts Coun- cil funding in this Budget also supports many other worthwhile yet less visible projects. For example, through their Community Connections Program, the Manitoba Arts Council have piloted three grant programs specifically de- signed to meet the particular needs of Aboriginal artists. They have awarde d 37 student bursaries and supported arts training schools and arts service organizations.

My department is pleased to be working with the Manitoba Arts Council, the City of Winnipeg and the Government of Canada to restore stability to one of our flagship cultural institutions, the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra. Through our partnership, we have appointed an interim management committee to manage the affairs of the WSO and to bring forward recom- mendations to the funders which will ensure that the WSO continues to pay for future generations. Manitoba is recognized as a leader in the Canadian and international arts community.

To sustain that leadership, we believe in providing operating grants to a number of major cultural organizations, including the Manitoba Centen- nial Centre, the Franco-Manitoban Cultural Centre, the Winnipeg Art Gallery, the Manitoba Museum and the Western Manitoba Centennial Auditorium. We believe the total of these grants averages about $7.9 million annually, but we believe that this is truly a wise investment. Cultural capital grants average approx- imately $1 million annually. These funds have supported urgent capital repairs to the Winnipeg

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 701 Art Gallery, the Centennial Concert Hall, the Manitoba Museum and the multi-year renovation to the Western Manitoba Centennial Auditorium in Brandon. * (14:50) We have recently completed a five-year, $2- million commitment to the Manitoba Theatre Centre to help refurbish and upgrade the 30- year-old facilities.

The Province provides annually over $1.3 million to support a variety of cultural festivals throughout our province, including the Winnipeg and Brandon Folk Festivals, the Festival du Voyageur, the Winnipeg International Children's Festival, the Fringe, Jazz and New Music festivals and others. Our commitment as a government of $1 million over five years to Arts Stabilization Manitoba is reflected in this Budget as well, Mr. Speaker, and we are very proud of that.

Funded by the three levels of government and the private sector, Arts Stabilization Manitoba provides technical and financial assistance to Manitoba arts organizations to enhance sustainable busi- ness planning and governance practices resulting in fiscal stability. This Budget includes an annual grant of $75,000 to the Manitoba Arts Network to support touring development and delivery in rural and northern Manitoba. Enhanced prov- incial support has leveraged federal funding of over $150,000 towards this initiative.

This Budget also contains significant sup- port for Manitoba's cultural industries: film and video, sound recording, publishing, visual arts, crafts and new media. In 2000-2001, the Gov- ernment of Manitoba approved a five-year economic growth and development strategy to support cultural industries in our province. We believe this strategy incorporates a variety of delivery mechanisms, including recoupable investment programs, one-time grants, increased annual operating assistance, marketing and professional skills and technological upgrading.

The initiative is designed to help companies promote production, improve marketing capabilities, increase earned revenues and de- velop employment opportunities. Over the past two decades, Manitoba's book- publishing industry has increased more than sevenfold in sales and now has nearly $4 million in gross revenues. Our Government is pleased to support this flourishing industry. Our Budget contains and extends continued support to Manitoba's book publishing programs to foster growth and development in the industry.

The department also supports an industry-wide initiatives program administered by the asso- ciation on behalf of its member publishers. The department invests over $200,000 annually in the marketing of Manitoba books, professional skills upgrading, the purchase and/or the upgrading of publishing technologies and industry-wide initiatives such as Manitoba Book Week and prairi e book week, Prairie Books.

Manitoba boasts a diverse range of successful book publishers including three Francophone publishers, two Aboriginal pub- lishers, a publisher specializing in educational learning and resource materials, a publisher of children's literature, and many more. Manitoba publishers work to develop Manitoba writers, and many of these writers have gone on to be nominated for and/or to win such acknowl- edgments of excellence as the Governor General's Award, Stephen Leacock Award and the Chalmers Canadian Play Awards, among many others.

On behalf of the Province, the Manitoba Film and Sound Development Corporation delivers film, sound and new media funding support to Manitoba companies. With the an- nounced increase in this year's Budget, Manitoba Film and Sound will now receive an annual grant of just under $3.4 million. In 2002-2003, the Manitoba Interactive Media Fund was established, administered by Manitoba Film and Sound. The three-year $900,000 fund will provide assistance to Man- itoba's new media companies for product de- velopment, professional development and mar- keting assistance.

702 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 Portfolio investment envelopes, the PI funds in the order of $775,000 were initiated. PI funding is broken into support for three cultural sectors: $300,000 to film; $300,000 to sound; and $175,000 to publishing. PI funding is based on three- to five-year business plans and is designed to support the growth and development of Manitoba companies. The PI program is designed to assist companies with professional development and skills upgrading, artist pro- motion and development, business growth opportunities and marketing capabilities.

The Manitoba Film and Video Production Tax Credit program has provided over $12 million in tax credit to Manitoba production companies since 1998.

In 2002-2003, a special review committee worked with the industry to revise the tax credit program guidelines to accelerate the capacity to process claims in a ore efficient manner. m In addition to direct and indirect supports to the professional arts community and the cultural industries, the department also assists a number of community-based and amateur arts organ- izations throughout the province, including annual operating grants to 20 community arts councils throughout the province. Since 1999- 2000 new councils have been established in Morden, Melita, Rossburn and St. George. I am pleased, Mr.

Speaker, to speak about the important role that my department plays in helping to create a climate for healthy people, families and communities. My department sup- ports the local, regional and provincial support and recreation delivery systems and works in strong partnership with those delivery systems to create opportunities for Manitobans to be physically active, productively engaged in leisure activity of all kinds, and gainfully in- volved as volunteers in their communities. The benefits of sport and recreation to the individual have long been recognized.

I was pleased to agree, along with my counterparts across Canada, to the goal to increase physical activity in each province and territory by 10 percent by 2010. We have the delivery systems in place in Manitoba to achieve that goal and the positive contribution that this increase in physical activity can have on our health, justice and social service systems is significant. In addition to increasing opportunities for Manitobans to be physically active, it is also important to consider many other interests that we share. Manitoba has 87 rural and northern libraries.

The city of Winnipeg public library system reaches into every neighbourhood in this city. Today's libraries still include books, magazines and newspapers, but they also include film, sound, large print, Braille books, along with multilingual materials. A new and emerging role is that of community access centres for computer access. Any Manitoban with an inter- est in using a public computer can log on at their community library and access information through the Internet. Manitoba public libraries serve over 920 000 Manitobans each year with collections that hold over 4 million items in over 30 languages.

In 2001, more than 8.5 million items were lent to Manitobans. As I mentioned earlier, we have proposed a $300,000 increase to rural and northern libraries. This will allow us to address the funding rate for the first time since 1994. We will be proposing an increase in the matching formula and increases to the collection, development and access grant for each library or bookmobile. We recognize the increased demands made by technology and infrastructure on rural libraries.

As a result, the increased per capita grant will allow the libraries to meet the needs and demands of the public for public Internet access, skills development and community partnerships breaking down financial barriers through free access and information, both print and elec- tronic. Public libraries are the community's ac- cess point to lifelong learning and are recognized as one of the most important public services as well, Mr. Speaker. If I may, I would like to turn over to the area of Community Places, important to community, cultural and leisure activity of all kinds.

It is the availability of safe public facilities to house the programs and services. Increased funding to the Community Places Program recognizes the role of recreational facilities in healthy and pro- ductive communities. This expansion of the Community Places Program is a priority not only for this Government, but also for the Association of Manitoba Municipalities and other com- munity advocacy groups.

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 703 Increased funding to Community Places positions the program to meet a growing demand for assistance to Manitoba non-profit organ- izations as they develop and improve the province's recreational facility infrastructure.

Projects funded through Community Places touch the lives of virtually every Manitoban through initiatives as diverse as beach and boating facilities, librarie s, arts centres, senior activity centres, community stages, arenas, recreational trails and day care facilities. * (15:00) Community Places funds an average of 219 community projects per year throughout our province. Community Places funded projects leverage approximately $6 in new spending for every $1 of provincial money invested.

In the coming year, Community Places funded projects will stimulate the Manitoba economy with construction industry spending of approximately $20.1 million. In the coming year, Community Places funded projects will create approximately 6000 work weeks of employment for 1600 Manitobans. Briefly, tourism, we feel, is also a very important part of Manitoba's economy because it contributes over $1.3 billion annually in rev- enues, or about 3.5 percent of our gross domestic product. Tourism contributes more than $3.5 million each day to Manitoba's economy.

Recent statistics show that the efforts of Manitoba's tourism operators, councils, committees and government are working. Tourism revenues have increased by 28 percent from $1 billion in 1999 to nearly $1.3 billion in 2001. Over a half-billion dollars of these revenues are export dollars from out-of-province markets. We are also aware of many of the other benefits a healthy tourism industry provides Manitobans. Tourism is often the focal point for community development and stimulates growth in arts, culture, heritage and recreational pro- ducts. Mr.

Speaker, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the importance of the tourism industry in terms of jobs. Approximately one in ten employees in Manitoba works in a tourism- related job, particularly in the accommodation, transportation, food and beverage areas. One in ten employees translates into more than 60 000 full- and part-time jobs across the province. Events such as the September 11 incident in 2001, the war in Iraq and, most recently, health issues related to SARS have affected the tourism industry worldwide.

While Manitoba has experi- enced growth and relative stability in tourist arrival, we are in a sensitive period. Currently, we are in discussions with provincial colleagues and the federal government, the federal Minister responsible for Tourism, the Honourable Allan Rock, about tourism strategies for the coming high-travel season. Our research indicates that the neighbouring U.S., Saskatchewan, Ontario offer the greatest potential for growth in the short term.

Americans are shifting their travel patterns to shorter haul vacations by car, creating new opportunities for Manitoba to tap into the upper midwest U.S. markets. The Canada-U.S. exchange rate is also in our favour. We believe that by promoting the purchasing power of the American dollar in Manitoba, we will attract new visitors to Canada. We also know that if Canadians will be travel- ling closer to home, there is money in this Budget for strong, focussed tourism marketing in partnership with the tourism industry to take advantage of these new opportunities.

As the minister responsible in this department, we are committed to the creation of a strong Aboriginal tourism sector. Our depart- ment is taking the lead in the development of a new strategy that will identify opportunities for Aboriginal people to gain business opportunities and employment in the tourism industry. The strategy will address a growing market demand for Aboriginal products.

To ensure that this new strategy represents the interests of Aboriginal people, I have established a leaders' advisory group to provide direction and advice on how we can align our overall provincial tourism strategy with Aboriginal products and services. Aboriginal culture is of great interest to tourists and our success will depend on how clear short- and long-term goals will be defined. We must take advantage of that great potential that is available to us in our province. As we move to expand and enhance a sector of the

704 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 industry, we must ensure these goals remain true to Aboriginal tradition, principles and spiri- tuality. We also realize that, to be successful, we must collaborate with other levels of government and the private sector. Collectively, we have built a strategy that is based on Aboriginal control, community- initiated development and cultural integrity.

Our strategy will focus on three key areas: creating attractions that capitalize on existing, successful developments and natural attractions; hospitality industry training for management staff and community entrepreneurs; and strategic marketing. We will also expand our reach to col- laborate with other jurisdictions. I am optimistic about recent discussions I have had with my colleagues in Nunavut about opportunities to develop tourism packages with Churchill as the gateway to other northern experiences and the traditional understanding of Aboriginal people about Churchill being the gateway to the Arctic.

We are very well aware of the exceptional assets associated with Aboriginal history, culture and tradition. We have a tourism product with universal appeal, and we need to promote it far and wide so we can share it with the world. I strongly support the development of a national tourism strategy that fully includes Ab- original peoples. I will be raising this issue at the Provincial and Territorial Ministers of Tourism meeting at the end of May that will be held in Vancouver, I believe. This Budget also allows for expansion of our media and public relations program.

This past year, my department's media program generated over $2 million in editorial coverage and publications such as the San Francisco Chronicle, The Boston Globe , Home and Away magazine, and we are very proud of that. We believe that Manitoba needs to continue building on our successful use of technology to facilitate tourism development. Our Web site, travelmanitoba.com has become a major mar- keting tool, reflecting the new consumer preference for on-line travel information.

Manitoba's Web site is successfully directing visitors to businesses in this region by providing links to hundreds of tourism operator sites. With site traffic exceeding 12 5 000 hits per month, Travel Manitoba's Internet presence provides strong support to the tourism sector. This Budget provides money for the continued enhancement of our Web site and allows us to build on the success of our on-line travel counselling service. We are proud of the fact that we are the first province in Canada to offer on-line travel consulting services to poten- tial visitors.

Since the launch of the program last June, live travel counsellors provided tourism information to over 1300 potential visitors. I want to touch briefly, Mr. Speaker, on Adventure in Ecotourism. Two years ago, our Premier hosted a tourism forum, bringing together over 160 leaders from the tourism industry, labour and government providing advice on future directions. Priorities emanating from the forum included expansion on nature base and cultural and heritage tourism op- portunities.

This mirrors the World Tourism Organization's identification of adventure travel and ecotourism as one of the fastest growing market segments. We have consulted with stakeholders in the industry and now a comprehensive travel an d equal tourism plan that supports the industry through product development, training and marketing initiatives, and this Budget commits over a half a million dollars to the adventure, travel and ecotourism sector. Last spring we launched a great new outdoor adventure guide and Web site that has received very positive response from the industry.

We also hoste d a very successful workshop with members of the Manitoba Lodge & Outfitters Association, and we have identified co-operative development initiatives to further this sector. Our research has confirmed as well that Manitoba's wildlife resources will be of interest to markets seeking unique opportunities to view birds and animals. An important component of the ecotourism strategy will be the imple- mentation of the Watchable Wildlife program. This Budget provides a greater capacity for us to work with wildlife and outdoor-product tour operators to bring their products to the marketplace as well.

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 705 We plan to develop several wildlife viewing sites over the next three years, and we will initiate a targeting marketing effort to attract new visitors seeking these experiences. Before I conclude, let me say that these are just some of the things that we are involved with.

We will continue to work with the various stakeholders that the Government has been dealing with, but, overall, I see this Budget as an extremely positive and progressive one on all fronts, not only for my department, but it is a budget that I believe continues the work of Manitoba Culture, Heritage and Tourism that our Government has been involved with over the past four years. In

summary, I have to say that we have a lot to be proud of. That includes the 1999 Pan Am Games, 2002 North American Indigenous Games and the recently completed Ford World Curling Championships held earlier this month. We have much to look forward to that includes the Western Canada Summer Games that will be hosted by four Manitoba communities, they being Beausejour, Gimli, Stonewall and Selkirk. The host committee is ready for these games, and I am certain that Manitobans will be ready to welcome our guests that will be here in our province.

I am also optimistic of the 2005 Juno Awards show and I am quite sure that the new True North Centre will be just the ideal location to host such an event. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. * (15:10) Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): I am privileged and honoured today to stand and put a few comments on the record in regard to this year's provincial Budget. Prior to doing that, I would like to acknowledge the members that are leaving the Legislature. There are certainly lots of rumours in the wind, discussion of an election pending.

I would be remiss if I did not just express my thanks and congratulations to those people. Having had the opportunity so far to have sat on both sides of this House, I under- stand the difficulties it takes to govern, and also, I think, I am starting to understand the challenges it takes to be in opposition. I do know that the Member for Inkster (Ms. Barrett), the Member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen), the Member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli), the Member for Riel (Ms.

Asper), we may share different ways or different ideas as to how we want to accomplish things, but I do believe in the long term the mindset is that what we think we are doing is for the right reas ons and for the people of Manitoba. I also want to acknowledge good friends and colleagues that I have had the opportunity to serve with in government and, as I said, in opposition. The Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), a long-serving member, first elected in '86, I believe, and has served his constituents very well. I know that whenever I get a chance to travel to Gimli and into those communities, Mr.

Helwer is a very well- respected gentleman. I want to acknowledge the commitment and time and work and effort of the Member for Steinbach (Mr. Jim Penner), who announced recently that he will not be seeking re-election. Just to acknowledge the different approach that the member brought to our caucus and, I think, to government. He had a very different view of a lot of things and his life history. The way he has conducted himself in his life will stand him well in whatever he chooses to do or wherever he chooses to go.

He has taught me a lot of things about not only the business world but about being more compassionate and being more giving and more caring, and I want to thank him for that. The Member for Morris (M r. Pitura), part of my class of '95, elected first together in '95, have grown to be good friends, and I acknowledge the great job that he has done, particularly on behalf of all Manitobans during the flood of '97.

If it were not, I believe, for the Member for Morris at that particular time, who kept a calm, steady hand on the things that were going on around them–they were changing rapidly and he had to be able to analyze and make decisions on behalf of the people. I believe he did an exemplary job, and I wish him well in his retirement and the things that he chooses for his life in the future. The Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns), who entertained us somewhat this afternoon, is always an entertaining person. I have long believed that MLAs, elected officials in general, should have limited times put on them as far as

706 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 how long they can serve. Having met the Member for Lakeside, having listened to him, I suggest it is incumbent upon all of us to keep some of that experience in our caucuses and some of that talent that we are so quick to push way sometimes. a I think the value of his experience and history has brought a new definition to our caucus. Mr. Enns had the opportunity, he spoke at an event of mine, and he went through the history of the Progressive Conservative Party.

I would even suggest that he would be the type of person that any government in the province of Manitoba could utilize in a way of helping us attract new young people back into the political. Ms. Nancy Allan, Acting Speaker, in the Chair I think he delivers a message of participation and action. I think it would be a benefit for all of us. I know that the young people that sat and listened to him speak for an hour told me it felt like 10 minutes. The fact th at they were learning things as they were going, I think he is a hidden treasure.

I think that we would be foolish as a province not to utilize that experience. I wish the Member for Lakeside well in his farming and in his future. He always says that he was born and raised in a city, but became a farmer when he got elected and has had a farmer's interest in his heart ever since. I wish im well. h Finally, the last person I just want to acknowledge is the Member for Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer). I have had the opportunity of sharing a constituency beside him. We have shared constituencies with the boundary changes.

Again, I think that the member can be someone that we can all hold up and aspire to be like. I think members on both sides will ack- nowledge that he is very straightforward, very sincere in what he says and what he does, and did a tremendous job representing the people of Minnedosa. I wish him well and I look forward to the opportunity of spending some free time with him as both our lives progress.

Madam Acting Speaker, the Budget this year presented to the people of Manitoba–the first thing I would like to just talk a little bit about, and I think all of us have experienced it at some level or other in our lives–many of us have families that have grown up and started their own families. I think that the budget process is important to us as individuals. Many in the Legislature have owned and operated businesses. Again, budgeting becomes a very integral part of doing that business just as it is in our day-to-day life with our households and with our families.

Finally, as a government, we are responsible for presenting a budget to the people of Manitoba outlining our expenses, outlining the way we want to spend money and also the way we plan on collecting the money. The two, although they cannot work independent of each other, are very much independent in the way they perform.

When you are preparing a budget, and I will use the family or the small business as the perfect example, and I believe the provincial government has that responsibility, is we have to look at what the outcomes are going to be from the decisions that we make, be it to spend money or to collect revenue, make money. How we choose to work that, we quite often differ because of our positions and our exper- iences. The bottom line is that the Budget is a spending document that tells people in the province of Manitoba how they are going to spend their money and who will benefit from it.

Well, in this Budget, we have seen the level of spending increase. We know that the gov- ernment of the day has made a commitment to increase their spending allocation in the province of Manitoba. On the spending side, what I have to do, and I think it is incumbent and responsible of all Manitobans to do, is to ask: Where in the Budget, the increased spending and the previous spending, are Manitobans benefiting the most? I think when Manitobans stop and think about it and look at the process, they might have some serious questions.

I know for a fact that this Government has chosen to increase spe nding in health care. Although that is a hard thing to argue against in the sense that people want to know that health care is there for them and accessible, what I question, and I think what I am hearing from my constituents in the questions that they are asking,

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 707 is what is the direct benefit of the spending that is taking place. We know that it was a priority of this Government in the last election although I suspect they will not be beating the drum to end hallway medicine in six months with $15 million, something that the current Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) has basically said was a wrong promise.

It was a promise that should not have been made and it was irresponsible to do so, but what have we done with the increases in those spendings in the last couple of years? * (15:20) In health care in particular, we have seen that the nurses got a very deserving raise. I suggest that that is going to be something that any government of the future is going to have to watch very closely because that is part of the competitive edge that we have with other prov- inces. We have to be in line; there is no question about it.

If we want not to lose our good nurses and our good health care professionals, we have to be very cognizant. One of the things I hear constantly from the people in my constituency is, yes, we agree with the fact that nurses deserve to be paid more and to be competitive with the other provinces, but along with that question comes, when you give someone or some organization or some group of people an increase of 20 percent plus over three years, what are the people of the province of Manitoba getting in return for that? What benefit is there for the expense that is being put out?

I question whether we got enough out of the deal in the sense that we still know that the nursing ratio full time to part time is out of whack with the rest of Canada. We know that the Canadian averages would suggest that 55 percent, 60 percent of all nurses working in other parts of Canada are working in a full-time pos- ition. In Manitoba, we know that not to be true. We know the fact is that only 35 percent or even a little less than 35 percent of the nurses employed today in our health care system are working full time.

So I am confused and a little bit concerned that, in the negotiation side of it, that was not something that was put on the table. I think it is important that government recognize the needs of the people that work in the system and compensate them fairly, equally and competitively, but in the same breath, we need to get something back that helps our system work better and, in the same breath, benefits everyone.

It is easy, and I know it is quite often the case, there is an issue, you throw money at it, the problem goes away temporarily but then reasserts itself in another area, and I think this Government is facing that right now. They have spent the money. They have committed it in the Budget. They have spent the money, but we have not got the tradeoffs that we needed to enhance the system.

So, therefore, I think that the benefit and the expense were not reasoned out by this Government, and perhaps, in their haste to make a deal, to cut a deal, to avoid the public perception of this Government negotiating hard and wanting something in return, was perhaps missed. I think that is unfortunate. We know that our doctor recruitment program that was started by the former gov- ernment continues to recruit doctors from other parts of Canada and also other parts of the world. We have to pay them on a competitive scale, and if we do not, they are not going to stay.

I think that is very, very obvious in what we are seeing. But I also have a concern that this Government has agreed to the formula set out by the College of Physicians, where an immigrant coming to our country, to our province is placed in such a restrictive measure that many of them now will not come to Canada, and many will not consider Canada simply because of the restric- tions that were put on them when other provinces that we are competing with, that we are competing financially with, that we are competing for the same resources with, are doing it.

I just think that, again, the money has been spent, but the benefit to the people in the province of Manitoba has not necessarily been realized, and I have a concern about that. In the Budget that was presented to us this past week, Madam Acting Speaker, I cannot remember if I heard it, and I am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the health system in Manitoba, I did not hear much discussion or debate about the mental health

708 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 concerns that we have in Manitoba. I think it is a growing concern, and I think that collectively we all have to start working to develop a program that is better for the people in those situations. In this job, and I am sure many of the MLAs will agree, we get to experience that first-hand. It does not necessarily just have to be in our family, but it happens to people that we know, and it happens to people that we do not know, but they count on us to help them get through the system.

I can relate a personal experience of trying to help a young person through the system and I said to myself, people suffering from this illness or the distress that they go through, sometimes they are not capable or able to find their way through the system and there is nobody out there to help them. That is not because there are not people out there who want to help them; it is just that they are so busy and so consumed with what they are doing that you ar e in the system or you are out of the system and how you get in and out of the system is so di fficult for people who actually need the help.

I think that any gov- ernment in Manitoba, and I think it is incumbent on us all, that we have to work to strengthen The Mental Health Act and improve it and make it more accessible, make it more understanding for people who are in desperate need of using the system. Other issues in health care, and, I mean, I just cannot participate in a Budget debate without talking about the failed hallway med- icine promise. I guess what I sense more than anything, and maybe to the strength of the Government they played on it, I think people desperately wanted to believe that it could be done.

I do not think there is anybody out there in reality who really believes it can be done, simply because it is a nation wide issue.

It is an issue across all jurisdictions, all political boundaries, but the people were desperate for an answer, and I think that this Government promised them something that was totally irresponsible, and, now, like all governments or like all parties, when you make a commitment to that level, by not being able to achieve it, you can talk a million different directions and you can say a million different things about, well, that is not really what we meant to say or what we really meant to say was this, but the fact of the matter is that you said it, you said it clearly, you enunciated it at every opportunity.

I think that is unfortunate because when you are doing a budget or a Throne Speech or even an election campaign, you are selling hope. When people at the end of the day see that hope diminished just simply because the government of the day can stand up and say, well, things change, I think that is disappointing and I think that reflects poorly on all MLAs who have been elected into this Legislature in the past and into the future. The second last area in health care that I do want to talk about in the Budget, and it was just in the papers again in this last week, is the frozen food fiasco.

It is obvious that everyone of us here eats frozen food probably on a daily basis, if not weekly, and the complaints that were driven before the election in '99 have all dis- sipated simply because they were not real to start with. The organizers of that campaign have stepped back and said, well, we will still give them frozen food; we just will not complain about it anymore publicly, and therefore it becomes a non-public issue.

The last thing I would like to say in regard to health in this year's Budget, and I can say quite confidently that I hear it at 100 percent of all the facilities that I attend, health care facilities, is we need more people on the floor. We do not need managers. We do not need bureaucrats. We do not need health care profes- sionals who sit at a desk. We need on-the-floor help for the people who are providing the care today. That does not necessarily have to be the most highly trained professional.

It is another set of helping hands that the people working in those situations are asking for. * (15:30) I think in a budget, that is where a government has the opportunity to prioritize and place spending allocations in areas of need. Having had the opportunity to work in a small business, to own and operate a small business, our decision was always made easier when it came to, you know, do we need more money or do we need another person out there to work in

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 709 the system. I think the bottom line at the end of everyday is if you need the people, you need the people, and I encourage this Government to look at that and try and enhance that situation. In the Budget, they talked about education. I think even members opposite are coming to the conclusion that amalgamation has probably been the worst thing that they ever could have done. They did it in the name of students and edu- cation. They did it in the name of tax-savings dollars.

They did it in the name of taking that savings that they thought was going to be there and putting it back into the education system. That is an admirable thing. It really is, but had any of the members opposite taken time to actually read the Norrie report which they said they did but they did not–they used it when it suited their purpose–Norri e said there were no savings to be incurred by this. At one time he was talking $4 million. At the end of the day, he said: It will not create savings. I think this Government has failed those communities by forcing it upon them.

You have divided communities against communities, and that is not what a government is supposed to do. I know it happens from time to time, and I know that it can happen from time to time, but it is beyond me why anybody, any government, any individual would want to go out and create that problem for themselves when there was no pent- up demand for it. In fact, the Premier (Mr. Doer) in a public event stated that it was not the Manitoba way and that we would not do it, and it was the very first thing he did as government.

That is what hurts people and that is what hurts us as politicians, because people now and then and probably forever start to question our sincerity when we say something and do exactly the opposite. I think this Government, the mem- bers recognize that. In fact, I would challenge anybody across the floor to campaign on that. I mean, if you feel strong about amalgamation, you should campaign on it. Madam Acting Speaker, a couple of other issues that I do want to touch on in the Budget, the Province of Manitoba has put out a nice pamphlet and it talks about advantage Manitoba.

I do not know if everybody is aware of this, but early in the year, the Pr ovince of Manitoba gave a company in Manitoba $15 million to secure its place in this community and to secure employment. I ask you what has $15 million bought us. It has bought us 200 layoffs and more in the making. Is that good economic policy? Is that good investment of the taxpayers' dollars? I mean, what have we gained? We have gained nothing. We have money that has gone out of the till, money which this Government in '99 said that that is where the savings would come from in their health care system, but they have chosen to spend it.

It is a very simple question. Is that the economic policy of this Government? They talk about out-migration and in- migration. It is very simple. If you have a hundred people coming into your place of work today buying something and 90 coming in and taking something out, you have only got 10 customers. You do not have the 900 that you say you do. That is exactly how StatsCan shows the job creation in this province. You brag that you have created 8000 or 9000 jobs, but you neglect to tell the public that 9000 people have left the province. Where do those jobs go? They go somewhere else.

It is absolutely ridiculous to believe that those jobs are on top of everything else that has happened in this province. They are a detraction and they should be explained to the people in that very way. In Justice, they talk about the money that they spent in Justice. You know what? You have spent a lot of money. You have increased the spending by astronomical amounts, but what have we got? We have got a community that is afraid. We have got seniors that are being beaten in their homes. We have young children being abused by criminals, and all we get from the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Mackintosh) is another news release announcing another program. One of the punishments, perhaps you might want to think about, is tying all the Government's news releases that the Minister of Justice has put out and let these bloody criminals walk around carrying it tied to their hands for a while. That would be punishment, instead of the slap on the wrist that these people get. They get a slap on the wrist and th en they are back out in

710 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 the public. The public is being jeopardized daily by people that will not stand up and just call a spade a spade and tell these people that criminals are criminals and they should be punished as criminals. The very fact that this Government has been so soft on criminals is going to reflect in our whole culture and our communities and in our residence and in our homes. You know what? There was a time when we used to say, well, that only happens in the city of Winnipeg.

I can tell you, the encouragement this Government has given to criminals and criminal activity, it is moving out. People out there are not going to stand by. My neighbours will not stand by and let this happen unless a government takes control nd issues a directive to the people. a You know what? I hear from the police officers and they are absolutely right: We catch them and before they get out of processing, the police, I mean, before the police get done the paperwork, these guys are back on the street.

I just cannot believe that a government does not find that offensive and is not standing up and saying something, not only saying it, but doing it. If we have to, let us make it more simple for people to understand. If you commit a crime in this province, you pay a price. There are no deals to be cut. There are no sit-downs between the Crown and the prosecutor and a deal cut to allow these people to go back out on our streets. Until this minister and until this Government stands up and gets that backbone, that is going to continue to happen. Manitobans are going to continue to live in fear.

There were so many issues in the Budget. I find it interesting when we talk about Hydro. The people of Manitoba, when this Government tried to take $30 million, and I will use the word take. Most people tell me they tried to steal it, take it out of Autopac. The people resented that. The ratepayers that pay into Autopac resented that and this Government, I think, smelled the wind or at least felt it and said, you know, that is probably right. You know what? Maybe we will go back to Hydro with such a number that people will not understand. They do not, but they are starting to.

They are starting to realize that the $288 million that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) sa id Hydro could afford to write the cheque for, we find out later they cannot. They have to borrow it and add another $200-plus million of interest onto that fee. People are starting to understand that. People are starting to see in the Hydro state- ments that their rates are going to go up and that Hydro is asking that they go up and that this Government is artificially manipulating those rates until after the election call.

It is so simple for the Premier to stand up in this Legislature and in public meetings, and the backbenchers shouted it today, Manitoba Hydro is a Manitoba company and we should use that money to help Manitobans. Well, he is probably right, but a budget is to sell to us how respon- sible you are going to be as government and how accountable you ar e going to be as government. It does not say, oh, yeah, and by the way, if we do not make it through this Budget, managing our affairs the way we are supposed to, we will go and milk the Hydro cow until the cow falls over. * (15:40) You know what?

You guys are not new to this. This has happened in businesses and this has happened in governments before, where they start raiding the cash cows , and all of a sudden the cash cow runs dry and people are wondering what do we do now. Usually when that happens, people wake up and start to say, you know, maybe they were not doing the right things; maybe we should have been stronger at the time and voiced our opinion. But I believe that in this election that is coming, people will understand the Hydro issue, and they will respond directly to the Government's position on that.

The last issue I want to talk about, Madam Acting Speaker, you know, they speak about their glowing tax cuts, 6 percent. Dollars to anybody it amounts to dollars. You can count on one hand the amount of dollars an earner under $30,000 is going to recei ve. Less than $5 a year, that is what it means to them. But just to let you know how other provinces compare to Manitoba and these numbers are less. The province of B.C. pays less by 29% taxes and–

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 711 The Acting Speaker (Ms. Allan): Order. I regret to inform the member that your time is up. Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Madam Acting Speaker, it is a pleasure and a privilege to be able to speak on the Budget. The Budget is probably the most important thing done in the Legislature. The Budget outlines the policies and the direction of the Government. The Budget points out the prior- ities of the Government. The public judges the Government largely by its budget.

Financial matters are most important to the public because budgets affect the daily lives of people. The private sector and the public sector are both affected by the financial policy outlined in the Budget. Madam Acting Speaker, this is the fourth Budget I am speaking to since I got elected in 1999. This is a fair and responsible Budget. In the 1999 election, we promised to live within the balanced-budget legislation, and four years in a row our budgets have balanced. We have deliv- ered four straight balanced budgets.

Moody's Investor Service has improved Manitoba's credit rating equal to Ontario and B.C. which is just behind Alberta. It is the sec- ond best credit rating in Canada. Madam Acting Speaker, I think we have done rather well. The Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) recently pointed out that the balanced budgets were a reason for our Government being popular and he said it right in this Legislature. I do agree with him, but I must say that our strategy in education, health, urban renewal have also added to the strong support for the Doer government.

The human focus on youth, families, working people and the good relationship we have developed with business and labour have also added to the strong support for the Government. Madam Acting Speaker, my speech to the Budget is very different than the Member for Turtle Mountain's (Mr. Tweed). I see all the positive things in the Budget; therefore, we will disagree on the Budget. The present Government is following what Tommy Douglas did in Sas- katchewan for 20 years, Tommy balanced every budget. Romanow and Blakeney followed the same pattern. Schreyer balanced, if I am right now, seven out of eight budgets.

The Doer government has balanced four budgets, and this just proves that we have kept our promise of balanced budgets. Madam Acting Speaker, I would like to talk about taxation policies, which, of course, are part of the Budget. Taxation policies have brought about affordable government. Afford- able government requires fair and responsible taxation policies, ensuring that our debt and pension liabilities are met. We are making the necessary investment in health, education and infrastructure.

These investments form the basis of sustained economic growth, but they must be managed with a solid and transparent financial framework. The Manitoba government is committed to a balanced approach to finances and economy. Not only have our four budgets since 1999 met the requirements of balanced budget legislation, but we have strengthened that legislation to require repayment of public pension liabilities and to prevent the sell-off of public assets. Since 1999 we not only have balanced four straight budgets, but we have devoted $384 million to paying down the debt in pension liability.

We had $2.7 billion of debt in pensions for civil servants, and this was growing each year, and we are beginning to pay that down. Because we are paying down the debt and we have balanced budgets, Moody's Investor Serv- ice has improved our credit rating. Next to Alberta, who have all that oil, all that wealth, I think our economy is in good shape. We have also reduced debt servicing costs by over $100 million per annum. We have reduced personal income tax by 14 percent, saving Manitobans $220 million annually. We have increased the property tax credit from $250 to $400, saving Manitobans $53 million an- nually.

We have cut taxes. We have cut personal income tax. We have cut property tax. Also, we have begun the phase-out of the Education Support Levy, saving $27.1 million annually by 2003. We have reduced small busi- ness taxes from 8 percent to 5 percent, while increasing the threshold to $400,000 by 2005.

712 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 29, 2003 We have implemented the first reduction to the general corporate tax rate in more than half a century from 17 percent to 15 percent by 2005. We have implemented a balanced and sustainable fiscal plan without health care premiums, without stepping back from promised tax relief, without selling off public assets, and without incurring budgetary deficits. Our overall spending has been very, very responsible. I would like to say a few words about our immigration policies. Our immigration policies have played an important role in Manitoba's economic growth.

It has contributed to our province's diverse multicultural landscape, broadened our opportunities for economic growth. For the last four years, we have reached a high of 4600 new immigrants in 2002. This strong performance is a result of concerned effort to expand Manitoba's unique Provincial ominee Program. N Immigration levels have also increased because of community and government spon- sorship to sponsor refugees. Therefore the Provincial Nominee Program has been very successful right here in Manitoba, and it is certainly appreciated by the business com- munity.

This Government has its financial house in order and the public knows that and supports the direction of the Government. When I go door to door, people are quite comfortable with the Doer government in respect to its economic strategy. There are other economic indicators that support the strategy of our Government. There is an increase in private and public investments, especially in venture funds. The Manitoba econ- omy has grown 3.1 percent in 2002, and the projected growth is to go to 3.2 percent in 2003 and 2004. The unemployment rate is the lowest in Canada. Madam Acting Speaker, Manitobans are working.

Our economy is working. Housing has had a banner year in sales. In fact, housing starts have increased 22.1 percent this last year, and the future looks very good. Retail sales increased by 6.9 percent in 2002, which is higher than the national average. The ethanol industry is ready to take off. Businesses in the rural community are ready to participate in this project. * (15:50) We have had several new businesses start up and expand in Manitoba that require large capital investment. This again proves that people have confidence, the business community has con- fidence in our economy.

I will just give you some examples. Brett-Young Seeds has just completed an expansion which will cost $20.7 million. J.R. Simplot is investing over $150 million in the first phase of the new potato processing plant near Portage la Prairie. Motor Coach is investing $40 million in its Winnipeg employees assembly plant and production development. We have Monarch Industries com- pleting a $13-million relocation expansion of its Winnipeg facilities.

These are just some of the nvestments that are taking place. i Of course, the Manitoba and federal governments have recently announced they will jointly provide $160 million towards the expansion of the Red River Floodway. Many other businesses are expanding, investing. This is a good sign for our economy and it is a good sign for the work the Doer government is doing On CJOB this morning, on the talk show, it was reported that there were good indications that the land is strong, Manitoba is doing very well, so all indications are, people are saying it is very, very good.

You might hear something from the Opposition here now and then that preach gloom and doom, but it is good out there. I would just like to talk about urban renewal. This is another strong point that we are all proud about. We are proud about what is happening in the inner city. There are some very good signs out there. The building cranes and earthmoving equipment are back and people are optimistic about the future of Winnipeg. If I may ad lib here, I have heard people from the Conservative Party say that they missed out on urban renewal. They should have done some of this work.

Housing has appreciated, I heard last fall, 24 percent in the inner city. Now I have been reading in some places, the North End and West End, it is up to 60% appreciation in homes. This is a good indicator that our urban strategy to revitalize the downtown is working. It will take years to complete this renewal, but we have a very good beginning.

April 29, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 713 Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the hair C Some work that is fostering this urban renewal, let me give you some examples. The expansion of the Red River Floodway, which has not started, but once this $160-million project goes, it will do a lot to generate jobs and employment. The True North Centre is being built. That is a nice addition to our city. [interjection] The True North has public money, but also private money.

I remember in 1995 the Op- position tried to, or attempted to, or it seemed like they were going to build an arena, and, I think, one day or two days after the election in '95, the deal was off. But, excuse me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the True North Centre is being built. We have the downtown waterfront renewal, a nice addition. The Red River community college on Princess Street is another fine addition. It will bring young people downtown. The new Hydro building has not been built, but it looks like it is coming down- town. Mr. Deputy Speaker, what we are doing is bringing people downtown.

When people come, there is life downtown. When people come they buy, they spend and so forth, and it makes the economy grow. We have the Millennium Library project, another fine example of it. The Health Sciences Centre is a $100-million project. It will be a nice addition to our inner city. The Neighbourhoods Alive! program is rebuilding homes. It is providing vocation. It is providing job training. It is a very nice renewal tool for the lower income people. It is doing very well. In fact, many rural towns would like to be part of this project. It is a very popular project.

People from all political stripes are praising this project. It is a very innovative project. It is working very well. I was just in Brandon at the Winter Fair. I saw some of the good work they are doing. The people of Brandon thought it was great, but it should be possibly started in other towns in rural Manitoba as well. We have a new hotel at Main Street and St. Mary's. There is a new Co-op building at Portage and Donald Street. It sells outdoor equipment. Staples has moved into Portage Place. There is a Crocus building on Main Street. There are many landmarks that tell us Win- nipeg downtown is on the move.

The result of this activity is that it brings people downtown. It brings economic activity downtown. This re- stores the heart of the city. People are moving downtown, not just to work, but to live. Many years of neglect have caused our inner city, the heart of Winnipeg, to die, and when you hear of programs like Neighbourhoods Alive!, we are bringing life back to the centre of Winnipeg. I would like to turn to the topic of education. I feel very comfortable because most of my working years have been spent in the classroom as a teacher. In other words, I have been in the front lines of education.

I am still in contact with many teachers and former students who are in the front lines. I do get reports from time to time about the status of education. Generally, the front-line p

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-4-18
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 4th hansardpdf 18.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c66dded5e3db9eeb3da6c1abd0fc80ea8e941218

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).