May 12, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No.

The House met at 1:30 p.m

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

This afternoon the Speaker would like to make several rulings. The Speaker

wishes to rule on a point of privilege raised by the Leader of the Opposition on

Thursday, April 21, relative to comments made by the Premier in the House of

Assembly on Wednesday, April 20. At that time, the Premier was commenting on

security arrangements in and around the Confederation Building Complex.

To constitute a breach of parliamentary privilege, there must be some

improper obstruction to a member in the performance of his or her parliamentary

work. Maingot, Second Edition, page 14, states, "To constitute privilege'

generally there must be some improper obstruction to the Member in performing

his parliamentary work in either a direct or constructive way, as opposed to

mere expression of public opinion or of criticisms of the activities of the

Members...".

Again, to quote Speaker Lucien Lamoureux, in the Canadian House of Commons in

1971, he said, "...parliamentary privilege does not go much beyond the

right of free speech in the House of Commons and the right of a member to

discharge his duties in the House as a member of the House of Commons..." -

Debates.

The Speaker rules that the Leader of the Opposition did not establish a prima

facie case of breach of parliamentary privilege. While the Leader of the

Opposition may disagree with the comments of the Premier, there is nothing in

the records of Hansard on this issue that obstructs the Leader of the Opposition

in the performance of his parliamentary work, including his right to free

speech.

The Speaker also wishes to rule on a point of order raised on Wednesday

afternoon, May 11, by the Leader of the Opposition relative to his disagreement

with comments made by the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture during Question

Period.

The point of order was raised on a timely basis; however, points of order

must deal with matters concerning breaches of Standing Orders, a breach of the

rules of relevance or repetition, unparliamentary language, lack of a quorum, or

some other matter relating to the

interpretation of the rules of procedure. In

this instance there was disagreement between the Leader of the Opposition and

the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and disagreement is a matter of

debate rather than

interpretation of the procedure rules. The Chair rules there

is no point of order.

Before the Chair proceeds to another decision, he would like to comment on a

ruling made yesterday on a point of order raised by the Member for Twillingate

& Fogo. The member rose on a point of order and the Speaker ruled there was

no point of order. The member then stood on a point of privilege on the same

matter and the Chair ruled that the matter raised was a disagreement between two

hon. members and did not constitute a prima facie case of breach of privilege.

For the general guidance of all members, the Chair would like to further

clarify that, when a ruling is made on a point of order, members should not

raise the same matter as a point of privilege, and vice versa. To quote Marleau

and Montpetit, page 543, it states it this way, "A Member may not rise on a

point of order to discuss a matter which the Speaker has already ruled was not a

question of privilege or to raise a matter as a question of privilege after the

Speaker has ruled that it was not a point of order."

I just mention that for members' clarification, and no reflection at all on

the comments made yesterday, or decisions of yesterday at all, but so that

members could have that commentary for their general reference.

The Speaker wishes to rule on a point of privilege raised by the Leader of

the Opposition on Wednesday, May 4, with regard to a decision of the Deputy

Speaker on Tuesday, May 3.

It has been the tradition and practice of all Parliaments under the

Westminister model that the Deputy Speaker, or the Deputy Chair of Committees,

when in the Chair, have all the powers and duties ascribed to the office of

Speaker. Marleau and Montpetit, page 298, states, "Every action of the

Deputy Speaker, when acting in the Speaker's place, has the same effect and

validity as if the Speaker had acted...".

Standing Order 7.(1) of our Standing Orders clearly states, "The Speaker

shall preserve order and decorum and shall decide questions of order...."

No debate shall be permitted on any decision, and no such decision shall be

subject to an appeal to the House.

Again, Marleau and Montpetit, page 523, "Reflections must not be cast in

debate on the conduct of the Speaker or other presiding officers.... Only by

means of a substantive motion for which... notice has been given, may the

actions of the Chair be challenged, criticized and debated. Reflections on the

character or actions of the Speaker or other presiding officers have been ruled

to be breaches of privilege."

Thus, the Speaker rules that the matters raised on Wednesday, May 4, relative

to decisions taken by the Deputy Speaker on Tuesday, May 3, 2005, stand in their

own right, and the point of privilege raised by the Leader of the Opposition

does not constitute a prima facie case of breach of privilege.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker has members' statements as follows: a

statement by the Member for the District of St. John's Centre; a statement by

the Member for the District of Grand Falls-Buchans; a statement by the Member

for St. John's West; a statement by the Member for the District of Grand Bank;

a statement by the Member for the District of Topsail, and a statement by the

District of Port de Grave.

The hon. the Member for the District of St. John's Centre.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize the Froude Avenue Community Centre's twenty years

of community achievement and development. Last week, the Centre's staff,

volunteers, community residents and invited guests celebrated this milestone

with a community breakfast.

The Froude Avenue Community Centre was founded on the fundamental belief and

community spirit and a positive social environment, and it currently serves a

population of approximately 450 adults and children. The Centre's mandate is

to meet the needs of the community through the provision of recreational,

health, educational, social and vocational programs.

With the help of tremendous community involvement and support, the Centre is

able to provide a wide variety of community-based programs and services to

individuals and families of the neighbourhood. Among these programs and services

are breakfast, summer, play group and after-school homework programs for the

children, as well as a neighbourhood enhancement association, community

clean-up, and recreational gym nights, just to name a few.

The Froude Avenue Community Centre provides an invaluable service to the

residents of the community, and I ask all members to join me in recognizing and

commending the Centre on an amazing twenty years.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate Mr. Boyd Cohen of Grand

Falls-Windsor, who will be inducted this evening into the Newfoundland and

Labrador Business Hall of Fame, an award established by Junior Achievement to

honour individuals who have contributed significantly to the growth and

development of business in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, Boyd Cohen fits the profile of this award to a tee. In 1953 he

built his first furniture store in the former Town of Windsor, and this was soon

followed by an even bigger store in 1956, as well as expansion into Gander,

Springdale, Baie Verte and Clarenville. Before long, the Cohen's name was

established as a leader in carpet and home furnishings industry, in fact, Mr,

Cohen was the first furniture dealer in the Province to offer a no interest

sale. When he decided to sell the business in 1985, he owned thirteen furniture

stores province-wide, and another three preparing to open. He remained as

managing director until his retirement in 1994, and since then he has continued

to be active in numerous other businesses around the Province.

Mr. Speaker, despite the success of his business, Mr. Cohen has kept his

roots in the community that gave him a start, and his compassion and generosity

is well known and appreciated by all who know him. Boyd Cohen is an outstanding

citizen and he remains active in various community initiatives to this day.

I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in congratulating Mr. Boyd

Cohen on being recognized for his many years of dedicated service to the

citizens of Grand Falls-Windsor and the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador,

and I wish him continued success in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate three youth in my district who recently were

among the recipients of the first annual Premier's Athletic Awards.

Mr. Speaker, these include: Victoria Thistle, who was selected for hockey;

Kendrick Au for tennis; and Julie Woolridge for soccer.

I had the pleasure of attending the awards ceremony, Mr. Speaker, and was

delighted that Victoria, Kendrick and Julie were selected from such a large and

competitive field of athletes.

I know, firsthand, that these particular athletes and their families have

worked very hard over the years and have dedicated a great deal of time, energy

and resources to their respective sports. I also know that they are all very

deserving of such prestigious recognition for their athletic accomplishments. It

was equally pleasing to learn that they each received $500 grants to help offset

the costs associated with their training.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud of these individuals and proud of this new awards

program that recognizes our athletes. I ask all hon. members to join me in

congratulating Victoria Thistle, Kendrick Au and Julie Woolridge on this

wonderful achievement.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, today I extend congratulations to three students

from my district who have been recognized for their educational achievements.

Three students from St. Lawrence have been awarded millennium bursaries from

the Millennium Scholarship Foundation for the 2004-2005 academic year.

Khyla Murphy received a scholarship valued at $3,000. She is currently

completing her fourth year of an Animal Science Degree at the Nova Scotia

Agricultural College in Truro, Nova Scotia. She is the daughter of Grace

Kearney.

Ryan Slaney received a Millennium Scholarship valued at $2,000. He is a

second year arts major at Memorial University. Ryan plans to enter the Royal

Newfoundland Constabulary. His is the son of Howard and Elizabeth Slaney.

Alaina Slaney, is in her third year at Memorial University and plans to

pursue a career in teaching. She also received a scholarship valued at $2,000.

Her parents are Adrian and Aggie Slaney.

Mr. Speaker, the accomplishments of these three students speaks well of the

education they received while students in St. Lawrence. Obviously their

education prepared them well for post-secondary studies and the fact that they

are doing so well in those studies bodes well for their future. These Millennium

scholarships help ease the financial burdens of students from rural Newfoundland

and Labrador who incur additional expense when studying away from home.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating Khyla, Ryan and Alaina and wishing them continued success.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Topsail.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I am very pleased to stand in this House to recognize an individual

from my district who recently received an award for his outstanding contribution

to his community, Mr. George Hutchings of Conception Bay South.

George joined the CBS Lions Club in 1972 and has been an active member ever

since. As a member of the Lions Club he has helped accomplish many things for

his community. He served as President in 1976-1977 and received the President's

100% award. As a Lion for thirty-three years, he has served on too many

committees to mention.

George was chosen Lion of the year in 1974 and again in 1989. That same year

he was presented the Melvin Jones Fellowship Award, the highest award from Loins

International. In June, 1998, he was presented with Life Membership in Lions

International.

In 1973 George was instrumental in setting up the Conception Bay South

Volunteer Fire Department and served as Assistant Fire Chief for a period of

nine years and is now honourary life member. He is now on call for cancer

patients who are in need of transportation to the cancer clinic in St. John's

for treatment.

In 2001, the Year of the Volunteer, George received the Newfoundland and

Labrador Volunteer Medal for the electoral District of Topsail.

Because of his strong will and passion to help his fellow man, and no doubt

with the support of his wonderful wife, Nora - who, by the way, came second in

her age group in the Tely 10 last summer - George was recently named Citizen of

the Year for the Town of Conception Bay South for 2004.

I ask all members of the House to join me today in congratulating George and

Nora Hutchings from my district for their outstanding contribution to their

community.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to honour many of Bay Roberts most

distinguished citizens who were recently honoured by the town. On April 21 the

awards were passed out at the Christopher Pratt gallery.

This year's Citizen of the Year was Mr. Eric Mercer of Bay Roberts. He was

nominated by the Royal Canadian Legion for his volunteer work for the Legion and

the Canadian Cancer Society. Mr. Mercer was a member of the organizing committee

for the Relay for Life, which was held for the first time last year, raising

$30,000 for cancer research. He is also a member of the Bay Roberts 50+ Club, a

member of the St. Matthews Church Vestry and also a member of the Orange Lodge.

The famous son or daughter award was awarded posthumously to Rachel Francis.

She is the only known Bay Roberts native to be awarded the Order of the British

Empire, presented to her by King George VI.

Curler, Andrew Mercer, was selected male athlete of the year. He was a member

of the provincial junior men's curling team for the second consecutive year,

and was awarded the Joan Mead Legacy Award sponsored by CBC for volunteerism and

academic standing.

Samantha March was the female athlete of the year. She participated in

basketball, hockey and volleyball for her school. One of the many highlights of

her athletic year included receiving gold and silver medals with the Bay Roberts

Sea Lion's swim team at the provincial meet, and she was also a member of the

gold-medal winning softball team at the Newfoundland and Labrador Games.

Mrs. Agnes Butler was selected as the recipient of the Community Service

Award. Over the years she has been very active in the community, involved with

the Minor Hockey-Moms, the Director of the Board of Management for the Minor

Hockey Association for ten years.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, the Conception Bay North Lion's Senior B Softball

Team were presented with the Sports Heritage Award for capturing the area's

first ever provincial men's title at Stephenville in 1954.

I ask, Mr. Speaker, all members of this House to join with me to recognize

the tremendous work of those people over the years.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to inform hon. members about the

success of a rising local high tech company, Cathexis Innovations Inc of St.

John's.

Cathexis Innovations recently formed a strategic partnership with Sapago of

Florida, which will allow retail shoppers to research products and read product

reviews as they shop.

Cathexis provides Radio Frequency Identification pen readers that will be

used in conjunction with Sapago's handheld computer personal shopper systems.

Customers will be able to scan Radio Frequency Identification tags on items,

and information on the product will be displayed on the handheld devise.

The company's Radio Frequency Identification readers are being used in

other applications as well. In New Hampshire, visitors to an art gallery use the

pens together with handheld computers to learn more about the works of art on

the walls of the gallery.

Cathexis President, Mr. Steve Taylor, recently addressed the National

Association of Fleet Administrators at the 2005 Fleet Management Institute and

Law Enforcement Conference in the United States on the uses of his technology in

fleet management.

Cathexis Innovations is a client of the Department of Innovation, Trade and

Rural Development. We provided the company with $50,000 in seed equity to assist

in marketing the company's wireless technologies for real-time tracking of

assets and seamless integration with existing IT systems. My department has also

provided business counselling service to the company.

Since March, 2001, when the company was formed, sales have grown 1,700 per

cent. The company now employees sixteen people. This is yet another example of

the tremendous amount of talent and creativity we possess in Newfoundland and

Labrador, and is a further illustration of how we can successfully compete in

the global marketplace.

I congratulate Cathexis Innovations on this achievement and we wish them

every success in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for a copy of her statement today and agree,

actually, with her assessment of the importance of Cathexis Innovations and how

important it is to support companies like Cathexis.

I recall, as Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development, in fact,

working with this particular company and helping to support them. It just goes

to show what can be accomplished in Newfoundland and Labrador if the support is

there for companies like Cathexis to grow and expand.

I would love to see companies like Cathexis look at rural Newfoundland and

Labrador too, Mr. Speaker, given that we now have access to high-speed

technology. Again, it speaks to the ingenuity and resourcefulness of our people,

and I congratulate those involved with Cathexis on this tremendous success.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to hear that Cathexis is doing very well and has a strategic

partnership with a company that will help to develop their product and see it

marketed.

These are three or four young engineering graduates with a great idea that

they decided - they were bold enough and adventurous enough - to try to market.

It seems to me that their product of inventory labelling looks like it could be

a real success story. I think the fact that the government has been able to

assist in this project is a very good thing. I hope that we do see some success

coming out of labour-sponsored venture capital fund that this government brought

into the House last year that will also provide opportunities for new ideas like

this to -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Nevertheless, Mr. Speaker, we have a lot of good ideas, a lot of smart ideas,

coming from very bright people in Newfoundland and Labrador, but they do need

assistance to get their projects going, and anything that government can do to

assist that process is greatly appreciated.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, today I rise to inform hon. members about a

recent meeting senior officials with the Department of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs had in Ottawa regarding the Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund. Our

government is committed to strong policies that will result in a better future

for rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and this infrastructure program is an

extension of that commitment.

I am very pleased to report that this second important negotiating session on

this infrastructure program was very successful. Officials from my department

were able to secure a draft agreement that all parties can work with and aim to

finalize in the coming months.

Mr. Speaker, this meeting was also an excellent opportunity for the Province

to express some concerns we have in implementing this program. We have

significant concerns about whether this program can be delivered to small

municipalities in rural Newfoundland and Labrador due to the high environmental

and health standards that are required. A major obstacle is the definition of

rural. This program is meant to fund infrastructure for populations under

250,000 people. That is what Ottawa considers rural; however, in this Province

that would be considered urban as that figure is comparable to the population of

the Northeast Avalon.

For this reason, we committed to work with our federal counterparts to see if

we can find alternative ways of addressing some of the unique needs of our small

municipalities where conventional infrastructure may be difficult. Every town

cannot afford a lined landfill nor a sewage treatment plant, and yet changing

environmental standards require we become better stewards of our environment. At

this meeting, we agreed that we will work with Infrastructure Canada and

Environment Canada to assess the impact of some of our practices on the

environment and to try to find new and innovative ways of achieving new

technologies in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, it is important that the federal government clearly articulate

the objectives and limitations on the Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund to

municipalities of this Province. My officials had confirmation that the Minister

of Infrastructure Canada, the hon. John Godfrey, will be in the Province in June

for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities conference. I will be seeking a

meeting with him at that time to further discuss the requirements of this

program as well as the gas tax initiative. I will also ask the Newfoundland and

Labrador Federation of Municipalities to attend so that they can provide

up-to-date and accurate information to their members.

It is very important that we start to finalize this agreement as soon as

possible. We want to have an agreement in place by mid-fall so that we can get

projects approved and ready to construct in 2006. In order to do that, we will

need to have accelerated discussions. Based on this meeting, Mr. Speaker, I am

confident that we can achieve this goal.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement, but I have to say

that it is a statement with so very little substance in it. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, all it is, it is another example of this government trying to convince

the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that they truly are concerned about

rural Newfoundland, when we know differently and the people of the Province know

differently.

In fact, it is the same government who put in place a multi-year capital

funding program that only certain communities can access, because there are

small communities who cannot afford to participate in it, and still they look at

the federal government and suggest that the federal government do not know how

to deal with rural communities.

My concern, Mr. Speaker, would be that, in any meeting that the government

would have with Minister Godfrey, if they were going to give a definition of

rural Newfoundland, which they say is a problem with this program, then I surely

hope that the definition does not come from the members opposite.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement, but I have to say,

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the minister on his optimism.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: He has a great deal of optimism in the face of a heckuva lot

of negatives.

He talks about what a successful meeting he had, and then he goes on to say

what was wrong with it: that the federal government does not understand our

situation, that they think that rural is less than 250,000, and they do not

understand our unique needs. He is also optimistic in expecting that Mr. Godfrey

is going to be here in June and he is going to solve all the problems.

We all know that the chance of Mr. Godfrey being here in June at the

Federation of Canadian Municipalities conference is very, very slim. We are

likely to be in the middle of an election. Nevertheless, the minister seems to

be very confident that everything is going to go his way without -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No leave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: And leave has been denied.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Further statements by ministers.

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Education.

Government talks about reducing the number of video gambling machines in the

Province, while the Atlantic Lottery Corporation increases its lotteries and its

advertising. In addition to this, the youth of our Province are being bombarded

with messages encouraging them to dream about the big wins and achieve wealth by

one form of gambling or another.

Mr. Speaker, it has come to our attention that schoolchildren on the

Northeast Avalon are losing money playing poker in school. I ask the minister:

Are you aware of this, and, if so, what are you doing about?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, certainly, when we look at the gambling

issues that are in our society, I would be only too glad to agree with the hon.

member, that they can be very debilitating for society in general, but to

suggest that there is gambling being taught in schools - is what I hear, right?

Again, I would have to say that you would have to clarify for me exactly what it

is that you are talking about.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say, if the minister would get his head out of the sand he might know what

is happening in the schools of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the game of choice - and I am talking about poker in schools, I

say to the minister, poker in schools - the game of choice in our schools today

is Texas Hold'em. This has become a popular fad amongst our young people. It

is of concern when high school students begin playing at such a young age and

during school hours. We have been advised of several incidents where these games

are taking place at recess time and at lunch time in classrooms.

I ask the minister: Has your department adopted any adolescent gambling

prevention activities or policies targeting high school students that will

prevent this type of activity from taking place in our schools?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Certainly, Mr. Speaker, I would be clear to the hon.

member that there is no condoning of gambling going on from this government,

from my department, with regard to what goes on in schools. There is a

responsibility on the part of school boards. There is a responsibility on the

part of teachers and staff who are in these schools to make sure that any

activities such as this are addressed, and are addressed in the sense of

curtailing them, of stopping them, and addressing, I guess, the consequences of

that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I never said the minister was condoning it. I

asked him if he knew about it, and obviously he does not.

MR. SULLIVAN: Did you call the principal?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, there has been much discussion regarding the

impact that VLTs are having on our communities. If teenagers begin gambling at

such an early age, what will this mean to gambling addictions in our Province in

the future?

I ask the minister: Is he willing to make the necessary investment to ensure

that young people understand and receive information, even possibly develop an

awareness program, regarding the issues relating to the gambling addictions?

Before you get up to stand, I say to the Minister of Finance: Yes, we have

contacted the principal.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Again, Mr. Speaker, I realize the seriousness of, I guess,

the situation if indeed what has been described is happening. I will make a

point of saying that I will certainly follow up on this because I do take this

seriously. I will follow up on it and review it. Certainly, if there are some

difficulties there, they will be addressed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Natural Resources met with the Mayors

of Grand Falls-

Windsor, Bishop's Falls and Botwood, who were pressuring him to take a

strong stand in relation to linking future power developments on the Exploits

River to a two-machine operation in Grand Falls. The Mayor of Grand

Falls-Windsor told me that he got that commitment.

Mr. Speaker, even the Member for Windsor-Springdale felt compelled to call

into the Open Line show last night and he implied that government should not

proceed with the power developments unless they got a commitment to a

two-machine operation.

I ask the Minister of Natural Resources: Will you state in this House today,

for the people of Central Newfoundland, and for the public record, that you will

halt discussions with Abitibi on power developments on the Exploits River unless

you get a commitment for a two-machine operation in Grand Falls? Will you send

that message to the company today?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are not going to take any lessons from the former government

about power purchase agreements, and here is why.

Let me ask the member herself, and maybe the Leader of the Opposition, when

they signed power purchase agreements with Abitibi, did they, Mr. Speaker, tie

those power purchase agreements to the manufactured cost of wood in the

Province? Did they tie those agreements to the manufactured cost of the Grand

Falls mill? The answer is no, Mr. Speaker, they did not. Do you know the result

of that? Abitibi could leave today, and on one particular power project, for the

duration of that power purchase agreement, they would continue to make money.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, let me say this: Unlike the former government,

this government is not going to give away the resources to any big company in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Let me also say this, Mr. Speaker: We will continue to work

with the municipalities in this Province, both in Stephenville and in Grand

Falls.

Just in case the member has not heard what the Mayor for Grand Falls-Windsor

said, let me remind her: We were encouraged by the meeting with him yesterday

and we feel the government, the Province, is doing everything it can to keep our

operations going.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I spoke to the mayor yesterday, after we got out of this House, and that is

what he told me personally.

You have reneged on your promise that you made in this House on May 3 and May

4. This hardship that you are bringing on Grand Falls-Windsor has a lot to do

with delivering on a campaign promise that this Premier made.

Mr. Speaker, my next question is for the Minister of Human Resources, Labour

and Employment. Yesterday all unions at the Grand Falls mill got a letter from

Abitibi giving them a warning that if they did not work overtime when called,

even if it was their scheduled day off, they would be fired. This is the same

company that laid off fifty-six workers Monday, with just the bare minimum

notice required by law, no offer of an early retirement package.

Minister, you have an obligation to the workers and to the communities in

Central Newfoundland who depend on these jobs. Go out to Grand Falls-Windsor

with your officials and make sure that the rights of these workers are

protected. Minister, your involvement is long overdue. Will you commit to this

today?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member has mentioned, it is a very

serious situation in Grand Falls-Windsor. Under

Section 57 of the Labour

Standards Act, the company did notify the Labour Standards Division of the

Labour Relations Agency. Any time there is a mass layoff we have to be notified

and we will make sure that everything was done in accordance with the act.

In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, it is also important to note that the union

in Grand Falls-Windsor with Abitibi Consolidated are certainly bound by a

collective agreement and any deviations to the collective agreement are

certainly subject to the grievance and arbitration process. Mr. Speaker, that

process will have to follow. If there are any problems, both the union and the

employer can use that process.

In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, if the Labour Relations Agency is requested

to mediate or provide any type of services, by both the employer and the union,

we will respond. Mr. Speaker, we are not walking away from this situation but we

will make sure we follow our role.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This morning the Minister of Government Services announced another piecemeal

plan to reform automobile insurance. These reforms will provide some short-term

benefits to consumers while finally dealing with age, sex and martial status

discrimination, eighteen months later than promised -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, I am asking members on both sides for their co-operation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Thank you very much.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace who was placing a

question. I ask all members to give the member the courtesy of being heard in

silence.

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Will the minister now admit that while these reforms may have some short-term

benefits, she has no long-term plan to deal with insurance rates and that

consumers will be faced with rising rates again because of her refusal to act?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if the hon. member would recognize

this, but this is the platform that they had for ten years and never

implemented. His reforms that he talked about - we have been only in government

for eighteen months. We have implemented this plan. We have made it better. Your

plan was a basic one which took away rights from the people here to be

compensated for their injuries. This will give the people their rights.

Just to point out here, you said you wanted fairness, you wanted

eliminate the rate based on age, gender and marital status; we have done that.

Our reforms here will see young drivers in this Province have up to 46 per cent

savings.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: The overall average for the consumers of this Province will be

20 per cent. We have done a balanced approach here that will benefit everybody

without taking away anybody's rights.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

One thing the minister should be aware of is that accuracy, when dealing with

facts, is very, very important.

Mr. Speaker, government's inability to deal with the insurance issue in a

decisive manner will continue to cause instability in the industry for

consumers. This latest reform package will likely see the end of discounts given

by companies to seniors and other experienced drivers. Why is government

bringing forward legislation that does not protect the discounts given to

seniors and other drivers who have earned the right to these savings?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, in these new reforms that we are bringing forward

we are not eliminating the discount for seniors. We are permitting the companies

to give the seniors their discounts. We do not want to take anything away from

our seniors. Our seniors have worked and contributed to our society or they are

fixed incomes, some of them. We are not taking away discounts from seniors.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a feeling this is going to go down the path of the Petroleum Products

Pricing Commissioner, where the oil companies will have to decide whether or not

there are going to be any discounts, because the government hasn't ensured

that they get them.

Mr. Speaker, we are going to be back here every June passing insurance

legislation if the minister doesn't get her act together. Every other province

in this country have made accident benefits coverage mandatory except

Newfoundland and Labrador. These benefits are very important to people who have

been involved in car accidents.

Can the minister tell the House why her government rejected the

recommendations contained in several reports, including our own I might add,

that accident benefits should be made mandatory?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, our government is here to protect the innocent.

We do not want to be making mandatory accident benefits, asking people to take

that option. They have the right to have that option. We don't ask them to

insure themselves, we ask them to look after the innocent.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS WHALEN: I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, if we did what the hon.

colleague would like me to do over here, everyone in this Province, about 50,000

drivers, would see an increase anywhere from $75 to $100 a year more on their

premiums. This government is not about to do that.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Finance and acting Health Minister.

During the recent Budget, your government announced money for gambling

addictions and education, and a reduction of 15 per cent. The minister stated

today, only 6 per cent of VLT users have addictions. That is an outrageous

number. Three other province's studies indicate 40 per cent of revenues from

gambling come from these 6 or 7 per cent.

It didn't take long, I say to the minister, for the Lottery Corporation to

get around this. They are now installing 125 free TVs and hookups and

introducing a new game called electronic Keno.

Why is your government, Minister, allowing them to bring electronic KENO into

our Province with draws every five minutes of every day? Instead of lineups at a

machine now everybody in the club can play at once or they can simply buy

tickets in advance and have them validated at a later date. Why, in spite of

what we are facing in this Province, Mr. Minister, are you allowing that to

happen?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What he is referring to is a game called KENO. KENO is the oldest game that

is known to man. In 1989 -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

The hon. the minister.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In 1989; a game of KENO called Atlantic Choice was introduced in our Province

in 1989. In the year 2001, when other jurisdictions were calling it KENO, they

changed it to call it Atlantic KENO. That was since 2001. This year - in fact,

last fall ALC had planned on doing a more revised revision of KENO, and there

are plans for some time in the future - I do not have an exact date - that they

are looking at implementing that as still a fun, low stakes game with no jackpot

game.

Those pull tab tickets are instantaneous. They can be taken every second and

opened. It is every five minutes, and what the specific time is, I guess

Atlantic Lottery will reveal that in due course, but I have been noticing since

last fall there are revisions occurring in numerous games of chance over the

past number of years, and that is just the continuance of a game that is -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That is a ridiculous answer by the minister. I say to the minister, it may be

low ante. In B.C., in three years the electronic KENO took over higher profits

than the Lottery Corporation by selling Lotto tickets. That may be low ante, but

it gives an indication of the problem.

Mr. Minister, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have both said no to electronic

KENO, and they did that based on expert opinions. Addiction experts in that

Province told them they could expect six to seven new suicides per year if this

was brought into their system.

Minister, your government, without any research whatsoever into the problems

of gambling, will surely follow should this be allowed to occur, even prior to

an announced study that your government is going to commence.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister, this form of gambling is scheduled

to start within the next couple of weeks. Will the minister tell the Atlantic

Lottery Corporation to shelve electronic KENO until, at least, the study that

their own government commission determines the extent -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think, first of all, it is important to get certain facts on the table. The

Public Accounts Committee in Nova Scotia called the Nova Scotia Gaming

Commission in before the Public Accounts. There was one individual who was

employed, who made statements to that effect from other jurisdictions.

Nova Scotia is reviewing, it is looking at further work on this and a

decision will be made if they will implement it. P.E.I. has made a decision to

implement it. New Brunswick is reviewing all of its gaming operations

(inaudible). That is why they are not acting at this time and maybe they will

not act, I cannot speak for New Brunswick. I do know that there are numerous

jurisdictions in this country - B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Nunavut,

the North West Territories, the Yukon, and states in the United States - who are

using this. It is to be a low-price, fun, non-jackpot game. You can wager, on a

spot, $1, $2, $3, $4, $5 or $10, and the games do work. If something is

addictive in nature, we don't have research that substantiates what the Member

for Labrador West is saying on that issue there, and we have had discussions on

it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, by the minister's own admission he doesn't

have any research or data on what is happening here.

We didn't ask the minister to give us an update on how Keno evolved and how

many states have it. What we are telling you, Mr. Minister, is that this game is

causing problems, and what I am asking you, in simple words, is whether or not

you will instruct the Atlantic Lotto Corporation to shelf this until the study

that will currently take place in this Province determines to the extent that

gambling is a problem right now.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is a study going on in this Province, a prevalent study. The hon.

member, two days before, told me they are now going on in this Province, you can

go in and play the games now. I indicated that is not the case, and he was going

to get back to me and let me know. I said: Please let me know, because I am

unaware. In fact, that game is not being played in the Province. That is what my

information has told me now.

First of all, if you are going to bring something to the House let's get

the facts straight, and then we will deal with it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries has confirmed in this Legislature that

plant workers in other parts of the Province, like Trinity-Bay de Verde, will

lose weeks of work due to the issuance of a new crab license to Mr. John Risley

in St. Anthony.

I ask the Premier: Why is his government now willing to participate openly in

what the minister has described as the redistribution of poverty amongst plant

workers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I said on many occasions in this Legislature over the past

two and a half months, and outside, the bottom line on the St. Anthony license

is we issued a license to St. Anthony based on an order by the Court of Appeal

in this Province to reconsider the decision - and I will say it again - the

patently unreasonable decision that was made by the former minister, the Member

for Twillingate & Fogo.

AN HON. MEMBER: Patently.

MR. TAYLOR: Pa-tently or pat-ently. Whatever the word is it still means

the same thing. I will spell it if it doesn't work any other way, if it can't

get through.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Maybe that is the problem. Maybe that is the reason the

message is not getting through to the Leader of the Opposition, because my

pronunciation is not right.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, he can read the court decision. The

court decision said that the former minister made a patently unreasonable

decision. The Court of Appeal said that the proper facts - to use the

terminology of the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace - were not considered

appropriately. That is what was said, and we were ordered to reconsider. Now,

how do you deal with it without fixing it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What is clear is that the court did not order the government to redistribute

poverty by issuing another licence.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier tell us why he and his government promised both

a crab licence and a crab quota to Mr. John Risley in an effort to open the fish

plant in St. Anthony? Why, I ask, was a guaranteed quota included in the promise

to Mr. Risley?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, you know, there is nobody here cutting deals with Mr. Risley.

The only person who might have cut a deal with Mr. Risley might be the person

who is asking the questions. Maybe that is what was going on some years ago;

but, I can tell you, there is nobody here on this side of the House cutting

deals with John Risley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I sat in the minister's chair, as I said

yesterday, for twelve months and did not issue a licence to the crowd in St.

Anthony, and if the court had found in the government's favour there would not

have been a licence issued to the people in St. Anthony. Those are the facts. If

we wanted to issue a licence to John Risley, and cut a deal, we would have done

it within twelve days of being the government, not twelve months, not sixteen

months after becoming the government. Those are the facts of the matter. There

is no need of casting aspersions or trying to taint my character over here

because of a patently unreasonable decision by a very ineffective minister in

the former government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know what he is getting so upset about. All I am doing is asking

some straightforward -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: All I am doing is asking some straightforward questions. If

he wants to suggest there is some motive in it, I guess he can suggest it

himself.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier stated that government was concerned about having to

pay compensation to Mr. Risley if they did not issue the licence in St. Anthony.

The court decision clearly states that a licence did not automatically follow

from that decision; thus, no compensation would have to be paid.

The question I have for the Premier is this: Isn't it really true that the

only compensation the Premier is worried about is a potential court case in the

future from Mr. Risley suing government for their broken promise to give him

both a licence and a quota for St. Anthony?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to tell you this. I sat - and there are enough

witnesses around - in the fall of 2001, when the Member for Twillingate &

Fogo was the Minister of Fisheries and reactivated a crab licence in Twillingate

and issued a shrimp licence in Twillingate, I sat on the steps in the fish plant

in St. Anthony and was asked point-blank by a number of plant workers and

management people: Would you issue a crab licence in St. Anthony? I said:

Absolutely not. That is what I said, and there are enough people who were there

in attendance at that time to vouch for it.

I have to ask him - I will ask the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Speaker -

how much money was given to him by John Risley in his leadership campaign? If he

wants to slander me, why doesn't he answer that question?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I can say to the Minister of Fisheries, any time

he wants to revert to being an Opposition member and ask questions, I am sure

the people of the Province would welcome the opportunity to see it.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier and the minister want crab harvesters to take

comfort in their verbal commitment that the government will accept and implement

whatever Mr. Cashin recommends - a verbal commitment to accept and implement

whatever Mr. Cashin recommends.

I ask the Premier: How does he seriously expect anyone to believe that verbal

commitment when the same government verbally promised a year ago to accept and

implement whatever Memorial University recommended about the ferry service to

Labrador, only to turn around and reject the main recommendations of that

report?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this government and this Party made a commitment to the people

of this Province back during the election when people were taking a closer look

at his government and what he had done. We said that we were going to make real

change in this Province, and we made several commitments to the people of this

Province.

One of those commitments was that we would tackle the fiscal situation and

the mess that you left us with. We tackled the deficit, Mr. Speaker, and in

eighteen months we have turned that around to a point where we balanced our

books in one year with a very, very slight deficit, and we have increased our

credit rating in just twelve months. That is the first thing we have done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: That was a commitment; we delivered on that commitment.

The second major commitment that we made to the people of this Province was

that we were going to do something about our offshore revenues, that we were

going to get what we were truly entitled to, that we were going to be 100 per

cent beneficiary of our resources. We made that commitment to the people of the

Province. We went up and we fought long and hard for the Accord, and we got $2.6

billion. That is commitment!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In all that blunderbuss, he did not go anywhere close to answering the

question that I asked because they broke the commitment they said about

accepting and implementing the recommendations from the university.

Mr. Speaker, one final question for the Premier. I ask the Premier: How does

he expect, and why should he believe, that people would accept his verbal

commitment about accepting and implementing Mr. Cashin's recommendations when,

as every single day passes by, he and his government are continuing to break a

written commitment to have consultation before any crab plant quotas were

introduced? Why should anybody believe a verbal commitment when you are breaking

your written commitment day after day after day after day? Now, answer that one.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, if the Leader of the Opposition wants to

read about commitment he can read the Blue Book. He can go back to a document

that we submitted during the election, Mr. Speaker.

As I said, the people of the Province took a closer look at what you have

done and what did they find? They found a Province that was in a mess. They

found a leader who had giveaways. He gave away everything. He was prepared to

give away water and nickel and the Lower Churchill. Whatever is out there, he

was going to give it away.

With us, no more giveaways in this Province. We are going to implement

change, and the people in rural Newfoundland will be better off for it at the

end of four years, and we will see you, if you are still around, during the next

election.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

We have time for one last question.

The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Fisheries.

In recent months, this minister is on public record stating that FPI has

taken fish traditionally landed and processed in Newfoundland and shipped it to

China for further processing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, the Chair has recognized the Member for Twillingate & Fogo

who is attempting to ask one last question for this session.

The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you for the protection, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in recent months this minister, the Minister of Fisheries, is on

public record stating that FPI has taken fish traditionally landed and processed

in Newfoundland and shipped it to China for processing. Can the minister tell us

today what species of fish were exported, and in what quantities?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Because we have permitted the question to be asked within the time limit, we

will let the minister answer the question in about thirty seconds.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there are probably four or five species of fish in this Province

that go out in pretty much an unprocessed state - much of it from the late 1980s

probably. Turbot being one that has gone out in a whole frozen state; continues

today.

AN HON. MEMBER: FPI (inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: Listen now, FPI does that too. FPI does that and a number of

other companies. Gray sole goes out in an unprocessed state, some of it, which

has been the case since the late 1980s. The only thing that is different in this

past year are two authorizations that I did sign off on for small red fish

coming out of 3O where there had traditionally been a very small fishery, and

for yellow tail less than 400 grams, which was traditionally going into fish

meal or cat food. Both of those things, we have contacted the FFAW, we have

contacted the processors, we have contacted DFO and we have been trying for

about two months now to arrange a meeting between all parties to decide on how

we should manage those small fish exemptions going forward.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for oral questions has expired.

MR. REID: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Twillingate

& Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister persists in talking about the licences in Twillingate. Yesterday

he said that I reactivated a shrimp licence and issued a new crab licence to

Twillingate. Today he said I have reactivated a crab licence and issued a new

shrimp licence for Twillingate. I say to the minister, that both the crab and

shrimp licences were issued to Twillingate in 1997, four years before I became

the minister.

Mr. Speaker, after leaving this House yesterday afternoon I called officials

in the minister's own department, asked for confirmation, and I would like for

him to table that here today so that the minister does not have to stand and

mislead the people of this Province anymore.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member will know that when you rise on a point of order it should relate

to the procedural rules of our House. We have had several attempts lately when

members have attempted to engage in debate by way of a point of order. The Chair

rules there is no pont of order, but there is a point of debate.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I realize, under the rules, a point of order should be kept until after

Question Period rather than interrupt Question Period.

I would like to bring to the attention of the Chair the comments of the

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture at 2:19 p.m. in response to a question

that was asked by the Leader of the Opposition. The minister said that maybe the

person asking the question might have cut a deal with Mr. Risley. I would

suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this is certainly unparliamentary. The person who

asked the question never made any allegations whatsoever about cutting any

deals, impugning any motives to anyone. It was quite clear from the minister's

response that he was certainly impugning motives to the Leader of the Opposition

by using that phrase: Cutting a deal with Mr. Risley. I suggest, Mr. Speaker,

that it is unparliamentary. The context, the tone in which it was uttered is

quite clear, and I would request that the Chair ask the minister to

unequivocally withdraw that remark.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We will live by your ruling. Whatever you rule in this matter will be a

ruling and we will live by it, and I am sure the minister will. But I will

hasten to point out to you, Mr. Speaker, that the minister asked a question of

the Leader of the Opposition and the question he asked was in the same context

that the Leader of the Opposition asked just before when he asked why we cut a

deal with Mr. Risley. So, let me say this, what will be sauce for the goose will

be sauce for the gander on this one, and we appreciate and look forward to your

ruling.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: To this point of order, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker, so that it is clear as

you make your ruling or if you do a review, that the language I used had nothing

to do with cutting a deal. It said -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Let me repeat the words, Mr. Speaker, because these are the

exact words that I read into the record. The only thing that the Premier is

worried about in potential compensation is a potential court case in the future

from Mr. Risley suing government for their broken promise to give him both a

licence and a quota. I did not say anything about cutting a deal. Suing the

government for a broken promise.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will obtain the proofs from Hansard, hopefully within the next hour

and, hopefully, come back this afternoon or, at least, the latest on Monday with

a ruling. I would like to be able to read the transcripts before I make a

ruling.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, in accordance with government's commitment to

accountability, I hereby submit the 2003-2004 Annual Performance Report for the

Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women. This report was prepared

under my direction and addresses the Advisory Council's outcomes from April 1,

2003 to March 31, 2004.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents.

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask

leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Victims Of Crime

Services Act. (Bill 34)

Mr. Speaker, I give further notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic Act And The

Provincial Offences Act. (Bill 33)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Sorry, no, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motions.

Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition from a number of residents of the Province

who are concerned about the recommendations of the Dunne report and the fact

that government, to date, is still convinced that it should implement this plan

of production quotas without agreement and without some face-to-face

negotiations even with the FFAW.

The undersigned petitioners humbly pray and call upon the House of Assembly

to urge government to only impose production quotas if it is agreed upon by the

FFAW and the processors as recommended in the Dunne report.

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to make reference to all of the provisions of the

Dunne report, but we hear everyday, both in this House, on the Open Line

programs, in the news reports and on the media of the difficulties that are

being caused around this Province by the fact that this government is about to

impose, or plans to impose, something upon fish harvesters and plant workers

that they do not agree with.

I talked to a man yesterday, who was out here in the lobby, a

sixty-one-year-old gentleman who is a fish harvester. He told me that the day

the minister announced the proposal, the value of his fishing enterprise, his

quota that went with it - according to a fish broker who is involved in the

selling of licences, this man is about to retire in a couple of years - but, the

day that the announcement was made he was told that the value of his enterprise

went down by $250,000. The value of his enterprise went down by $250,000 because

his ability to negotiate and deal with buyers was affected to that extent. We

are talking about a large boat owner in this case, a guy who owns a boat, who

has a substantial quota. That quota has a value based on the amount of

(inaudible) that they have and the enterprise is based on that. For a fisherman,

for a fish harvester, the way that they can pass on their licences is by selling

them to another fish harvester. They have a value based on the size of the boat,

based on the obligations that go with it, based on the quota that is assigned to

it, but that was the affect of a decision being made by this government without

consultation.

Mr. Speaker, that is only one individual who is all of a sudden being

affected to that extent by this plan without any consultation, without any plan

in place that could be negotiated. There could be lots of ideas that might come

from the fishermen's union if this group would sit down and negotiate face to

face.

We have something going on, Mr. Speaker, there is paper going back and forth,

but until they sit down face to face and say: Here is how we intend to

operationalize what we are going to do - the government has not even been able

to explain how their plan is going to work, let alone modify it to deal with

some of the problems being caused.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: Just one minute to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: To clue up, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted for some concluding comments.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, there may have been some significant movement by

the government offering to put Mr. Cashin in place, and - what I heard yesterday

from the Premier - an unequivocal statement by the Premier that they would

accept whatever recommendation Mr. Cashin comes up with, but that has to be in a

plan and a scheme that is agreed to by the participants in the industry, Mr.

Speaker, by the fisheries union as well as by the government. That may be a way

forward - we do not know - but there need to be some face-to-face negotiations

in order to make it happen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Are we moving to Orders of the Day? I know that some business -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: The rule of the House is that if the government calls the

Orders of the Day then that takes precedence over all other business at this

stage.

Are you calling the Orders of the Day?

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not have any hesitation in allowing more petitions to go ahead. I say to

the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, if you have a petition to present, that

is not a problem, but I will say this to you: I was standing as well, and it is

up to the Speaker to decide who he recognizes.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognized the hon. the Government House Leader

first. We had been on this side of the House and then we moved to this side. If

the hon. Government House Leader gives his leave then we can go to another

petition.

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to stand up, because I have a petition

on a very important issue to a number of residents from my district. Again today

this petition deals with government's handling of the Dunne report.

Mr. Speaker, the Dunne report recommended the development of a raw material

sharing system only when processors can satisfy the minister that there are and

will be no substantive and reasonable objections from plant works and

harvesters. Mr. Speaker, that obviously has not occurred.

I listened to the Minister of Government Services this afternoon, in an

answer to me, and she said that her government is there to protect the innocent.

Mr. Speaker, I am hearing from the innocent of this Province on a daily basis -

the people who are caught up under a way of trying to make a living, trying to

survive and feed their families because a government will not say: Wait and we

will look at this later. Go back fishing. Go back to your plants. Provide for

your families.

That is what I am hearing, Mr. Speaker. The minister had the ideal

opportunity to stand yesterday and protect those innocent, but that did not

happen. Instead, today my phone is busy again with hardship cases that are

coming in from people who are caught - hearing from families who are planning

trips to Alberta, people who are trying to get qualified with Flagperson courses

and so on, so that they will have a chance to get employment on the mainland.

Mr. Speaker, surely to heavens everybody in this Province cannot be wrong

except the government. It is like the old saying: There goes my Johnny in the

parade, but everybody is out of step except Johnny. Johnny, in this case, is the

government, when everybody in this Province is saying: Hold up; what is the

crisis for three months?

It is interesting to note that the Premier today jumps up with his great Blue

Book in his hand, the great Blue Book that led him and his people to victory in

the last election, but that Blue Book, and the road to that victory, is full. It

is filled with broken promises. There are more broken promises in that Blue Book

than there are potholes on the Trans-Canada, Mr. Speaker.

There are people in this Province, and there are faces to these people. These

are real people out there, trying to provide for their families. It is sickening

and disheartening when you hear of someone who does not know what they are going

to eat next week, cut back their weekly food bill to $50 a week, trying to

provide for a family of five on $50 a week.

I do not know if everybody in this House has lost all sense of presence. I do

not know. Anyone with any presence of mind at all can realize that $50 a week,

the way prices are this day, you will be lucky to get Carnation milk and Kraft

Dinner out of $50 a week to feed a family of five people.

My God Almighty, I ask the hon. members opposite to rethink this and to put

some human peril to this, because there is something drastically wrong when we

have people in our Province this way. I have never seen so many people in my

area making plans to exit this Province. Many of these people are our youngest

and our brightest, never to return again. They will go to the mainland, find a

life there, and they are gone. The devastating effect of this ill-planned

report, and trying to implement it on the backs of the misery of our people, I

think it is cruel and inhuman.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Before the Chair recognizes other speakers, the Chair would

like to recognize some young people who just arrived in our galleries. These

students are from Leo Burke Academy in Bishop's Falls in the District of

Exploits. They are Level I, Level II and Level III students, and their teachers

are Glenda Young and Mike Dwyer. I do understand they have chaperones Mrs. Ball,

Mr. Witcher and Mrs. Lundrigan, and they have their bus driver who, I believe,

is Ivan Winsor.

On behalf of all members, we would like to welcome you to our House of

Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions.

I recognize the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition to the government on behalf of a number of

people in our Province - it concerns VLTs and gambling - and to call for this

government to cause a referendum to take place in this Province in conjunction

with the municipal election in September to find out whether or not people in

this Province want to have VLTs as part of a money-generating revenue to be used

by government.

The havoc, Mr. Speaker, that is caused to people who have problems with

gambling in our Province is astronomical and now, from my question today, there

is a new game being brought in by the Atlantic Lottery Corporation, with the

approval of government, called electronic KENO.

I am sure, when the minister responded and said KENO is the oldest game known

to man, I am sure he was not talking about electronic KENO and the damage that

can do. I doubt very much if the people who played KENO back centuries ago - if

what the minister indeed is saying is true - that they lost a lot of money in

doing so; but, today, the public of this Province should be given an opportunity

to have a voice and have a say in such an important social matter.

This government should allow the people to express their opinion, by way of a

vote, whether or not this is something that we want to continue. We have had

suicides in this Province. People have taken their own lives because of problems

with gambling addictions.

Mr. Speaker, the minister also talked about how this is in place, electronic

KENO, in British Columbia. Let me read you a quote from British Columbia from a

study that was done. It says: Indication of British Columbia continuous

electronic KENO was introduced two to three years ago. The lotto gaming market,

lotto tickets in B.C. has operated for decades and is one of the most mature

markets of its type in Canada. But get this, Mr. Speaker, and I would ask the

minister to pay attention as well. In a few years, revenue from KENO market in

B.C. has overtaken and surpassed the lotto program. That is alarming! Here we

are in this Province, with this government about to commission a study on the

effects gambling is having on our residents, the addiction that is taking hold

of people from gambling, right on the eve of that study being commenced. After

taking out, over the next five years, 15 per cent of the VLTs, putting

three-quarters of a million dollars into education and for people to receive

treatment. This government, in spite of all that, is allowing a new form of

electronic gambling to come into our Province that will negate any of the good

things that people may have seen from their Budget measures.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MR. COLLINS: Just a second to clue up, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Has leave been granted to make some concluding comments?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you.

I just want to say in cluing up, that, again, I ask the Minister of Finance,

the Acting Minister of Health to tell the Atlantic Lottery Corporation to shelve

this venture, at least - I would like to see it shelved for good - until a study

has been conducted in this Province to determine the current problem that

gambling creates before we extend into new measures that will create even

further problems. I ask the minister to do that, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition of behalf of in excess of 3,000 people

who signed one, again calling on the government to live up to the commitment

given by the Premier with respect to the continuation of a health care facility

that is under construction in Grand Bank.

This is a facility, Mr. Speaker, that $3.5 million has been spent on it to

date. We have the steel standing. All the groundwork has been done. Now we are

waiting to see the facility completed. All that people, who have signed this

petition, are asking is that government live up to the commitment that the

Premier gave, that, in fact, he would see the facility completed in Grand Bank.

It is a facility that serves eight communities. Contrary to what is being said

on the Open Line show and in some letters to the editor by one of the members

opposite, by the Member for Burin-Placentia West and by other PC supporters, it

is not a hospital. It is a clinic and the replacement of an existing seniors'

home, both of which are in a deplorable condition and really do need to be

replaced.

It is misleading, for those who are PC supporters, to get on the airwaves and

write letters to the editor suggesting that there are three hospitals on the

Burin Peninsula. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is one hospital,

a regional hospital in Burin where you get the major diagnostic tests done, that

doctors send you there to get done; which if it cannot be done there than people

have to go to St. John's.

What we have in Grand Bank is a clinic. It is holding beds only. All we are

asking to have replaced is the clinic and we are also asking to have the seniors'

home replaced. It was all agreed to, the same professionals that the government

opposite says they are going to listen to when they go ahead with any plans for

health care facilities in the Province. These are the same professionals who

recommended that the facilities in Grand Bank be replaced. Again, it is

misleading to suggest there are three hospitals.

In St. Lawrence we also have a clinic and we have acute care beds. We have

twenty beds there that are still not open. The plan was, in fact, that when the

new facility was built in Grand Bank they would have fewer acute care beds, and

the twenty acute care beds in St. Lawrence that are presently closed would be

open. It was a very thought out plan. A lot of effort went into it. All the

professionals were involved, including the health care board of the day,

including health care professionals in the Department of Health and Community

Services. Anyone who needed to be involved was involved, and the decision was

made that, yes, these two existing facilities need to be replaced.

We are calling on the government and the in excess of 3,000 people who have

signed the petition - and while the petition was circulated in my district only,

I can assure you that if it had been circulated in other districts as well,

where people from those districts actually go and become residents of the Blue

Crest senior's home, that they, in fact, would have signed it as well because

it impacts on them and their families.

The need is great, and I am calling on the government again to be

responsible, to live up to the commitment and to -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All I am asking the government to do is to keep a promise, in keeping with a

promise is a promise.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition signed by

400 or 500 people on the Burin Peninsula calling on the provincial government to

have a CT scan and a dialysis unit for the Burin Peninsula hospital.

I presented this petition many, many times before. It seems to be falling on

deaf ears within this government and there does not seem to be any concern

whatsoever for health care on the Burin Peninsula.

This particular petition outlines the drastic need for this particular

service. As a matter of fact, we had a motion in this House of Assembly that was

not supported by the Member for Burin-Placentia West. There were savings from

the Budget last year that the money could have been allocated for these two

particular services, but the member rose in his place and voted against that

particular resolution.

In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, I have great concerns about what is

happening with Burin Peninsula health care. I have three communities in my

have the services of a doctor. I met some time ago with the Parliamentary

Secretary for the Minister of Health. There was supposed to be a meeting called

but there has been nothing done to address the issue.

I had calls today from my district where a ninety-two-year-old person, just

to get seen by a doctor, had to get in an ambulance and travel to Burin. I think

it is ridiculous in our day. The ambulance fees are gone up by $50. It is

disgraceful what is happening with health care on the Burin Peninsula. Right now

we have one member on the board. It seems like we are continuously downgrading

the health care services on the Burin Peninsula.

I am asking the Member for Burin-Placentia West to make representation in his

caucus, to get up, make the point and make sure his government is listening to

what he has to say.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of residents of Little Bay

Islands, King's Point and Upper Island Cove who are asking the government to

shelve the production quota plan that they have on the table until the

government lives by the recommendation of the Dunne report, and that is only to

proceed, if and when, production quotas are agreed to by the FFAW and the

fishermen of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, rather than do this, the Premier of this Province is trying to

starve fishermen in the Province into accepting production quotas. I say starve,

Mr. Speaker, because there are number of people out there today who are

experiencing severe hardships as a result of the Premier's stand and that

eventually, I guess, they will have to fish or starve. That is exactly what the

Premier knows and that is exactly why he is continuing to push it down their

throats.

Mr. Speaker, what we see is a Premier who wants to crush these individuals,

crush their spirits, crush their union so that he can exercise more control over

them. I would say he is behaving like an individual who suffers from what is

called the Napoleonic syndrome. Then, a few days ago, he said he would establish

a committee, led by Mr. Cashin, and he would live by the recommendations that

Mr. Cashin would make at the end of the fishery this year.

Mr. Speaker, I think there are a vast number of people in the Province who

really do not trust the Premier to live by that commitment because they have

witnessed commitments that he has made in the past that he has not adhered to.

One is that he would consult with fishermen and members of the FFAW before he

implemented production quotas. Mr. Speaker, his minister, the Minister of

Fisheries, wrote the FFAW and told them that last fall. He did not respect that

recommendation. He did not even respect the letter that the minister wrote him.

Mr. Speaker, he also says that he would live by the recommendation of Mr.

Cashin, when he will not even live by the recommendation of Mr. Dunne. Mr. Dunne

said, only implement this when it was agreed to by fishermen and harvesters in

this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries talks about the recommendation of Mr.

Vardy. Well, Mr. Vardy recommended that the only way production quotas should

come into place is if they were negotiated in the collective agreement between

the fish harvesters of this Province and the processors.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier stood in the public in this Province and told the

people of the Province that he would live by the recommendation from a group

that he hired at the university to examine the ferry service in Southern

Labrador. What did he do, Mr. Speaker? They recommended the service go one way,

and he did not abide by the recommendation but did exactly the opposite.

Mr. Speaker, why would these individuals today believe that the Premier is

going to live by any recommendation that is not his own? So, I say to the -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has lapsed.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, just a minute to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: Has leave been granted for some concluding comments?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As a result of the Premier's stubbornness and his inability to accept the

fact that no one only himself wants this, we have people leaving rural areas of

the Province.

I had a fax come to me today from the community of Summerford, on New World

Island, telling me that thirty-two fishermen on New World Island have just

completed a power saw safety course and are moving to Red Deer, Alberta, because

they know that this season could be lost, or is going to be lost, because of the

Premier's stubbornness.

Mr. Speaker, I also hear that residents of New World Island have already left

for Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to work in fish plants - just imagine, Mr.

Speaker - and they will probably end up working in plants that are processing

our own crab.

Mr. Speaker, I beg the Premier - because it is no good to ask him, it is no

good to order him -

AN HON. MEMBER: Leave is withdrawn.

MR. REID: I beg him to take this off the table!

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Leave has been withdrawn.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We do not mind providing common courtesies to each other but, before I move

to Orders of the Day - I understand this is an emotional issue, it is a petition

- I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, let's try to abide by those

common courtesies. When taking a couple of feet, let's not go for the mile.

Mr. Speaker, Orders of the Day.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I want to go through a number of motions that -

MR. REID: You are talking (inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: I am just talking between ourselves, in terms of the

petitions, I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: You are talking into a camera. That is not (inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Pardon me?

MR. REID: You are talking into a camera. That is not (inaudible) -

MR. E. BYRNE: I will give you time to talk about it if you want.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, what I would like to suggest is, I have a

number of motions to put forward, or to call, that would give first readings,

which would allow us the opportunity to distribute about fourteen bills. Would

it be, I think, most appropriate if I just referenced the motion and bill

numbers all at one time and then you can call them individually after? Would

that be acceptable?

MR. SPEAKER: If that is acceptable to the House, then I do gather that

there is consent.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 1, Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Pardon me?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Sorry about that.

Mr. Speaker, Motion 2, under my own name, the hon. the Government House

Leader, to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act Respecting The

Management Of Government Information For The Province. (Bill 16)

Motion 3, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to ask leave

to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act Respecting The Practice Of Medicine In The

Province. (Bill 21)

Motion 4, the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources, myself, to ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Natural Products Marketing Act

And The Farm Practices Protection Act. (Bill 22)

Motion 5, in the name of the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture,

to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Aquaculture Act.

(Bill 19)

Motion 6, under the name of the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board, to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Revise The

Law Respecting The Guarantee Of Loans To Local Authorities. (Bill 23)

Motion 7, in the name of the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board, to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Revise The

Law About Pensions For The Members Of The House Of Assembly. (Bill 24)

Motion 8, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act. (Bill

26)

Motion 9, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Insurance Companies Act. (Bill

27)

Motion 10, in the name of the hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works,

and Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs, to ask leave to introduce a

bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement Act.

(Bill 28)

Motion 11, in the name of the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs, to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The

Municipalities Act, 1999 And The Municipal Elections Act. (Bill 29)

Motion 12, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to ask leave

to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Law Society Act, 1999. (Bill

30)

Motion 13, in the name of myself, the Minister of Natural Resources, to ask

leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Canada-Newfoundland And

Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Newfoundland And Labrador Act. (Bill 31)

Motion 14, again in my name as the Minister Responsible for Natural

Resources, to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The

Forestry Act. (Bill 32)

That is it, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the following ministers shall

have leave to introduce bills entitled as follows:

Bill 16, in the name of the hon. the Government House Leader,

An Act

Respecting The Management Of Government Information For The Province.

Bill 21, in the name of the Minister of Health and Community Services,

An Act

Respecting The Practice Of Medicine In The Province.

Bill 22, in the name of the Minister of Natural Resources,

An Act To Amend

The Natural Products Marketing Act And The Farm Practices Protection Act.

Bill 19, in the name of the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture,

An Act To

Amend The Aquaculture Act.

Bill 23, in the name of the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board,

An Act To Revise The Law Respecting The Guarantee Of Loans To Local

Authorities.

Bill 24, in the name of the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board,

An Act To Revise The Law About Pensions For Members Of The House Of

Assembly.

Bill 26, in the name of the Minister of Government Services,

An Act To Amend

The Automobile Insurance Act.

Bill 27, in the name of the Minister of Government Services,

An Act To Amend

The Insurance Companies Act.

Bill 28, in the name of the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs,

An Act To Amend The Labrador Inuit

Land Claims Agreement Act.

Bill 29, in the name of the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, An

Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999 and the Municipal Elections Act.

Bill 30, in the name of the hon. Minister of Justice and Attorney General, An

Act To Amend The Law Society Act, 1999.

Bill 31, in the name of the Minister of Natural Resources,

An Act To Amend

the Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Newfoundland

And Labrador Act (Bill 31)

Bill 32, in the name of the Minister of Natural Resources,

An Act To Amend

The Forestry Act.

Is it the pleasure of the House that these hon. ministers shall have leave to

introduce these named bills?

All those in favour, Aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Government House Leader to introduce a bill, "An

Act Respecting The Management of Government Information For The Province,"

carried. (Bill 16)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a

bill, "An Act Respecting The Practice of Medicine In The Province,"

carried. (Bill 21)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Natural Products Marketing Act And The Farm Practices

Protection Act," carried. (Bill 22)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture to introduce a

bill, "An Act To Amend The Aquaculture Act," carried. (Bill 19)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to

introduce a bill, "An Act To Revise The Law Respecting The Guarantee Of

Loans To Local Authorities," carried. (Bill 23)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act," carried. (Bill 26)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Insurance Companies Act," carried. (Bill 27)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister

Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend

The Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement Act," carried. (Bill 28)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to

introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999 and the

Municipal Elections Act," carried. (Bill 29)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a

bill, "An Act to Amend The Law Society Act, 1999," carried. (Bill 30).

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador Atlantic Accord

Implementation Newfoundland And Labrador Act," carried. (Bill 31)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend the Forestry Act," carried. (Bill 32)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the bills be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bills be now read a first time?

All those in favour, Aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting the Management of Government Information

For The Province. (Bill 16)

A bill,

An Act Respecting the Practice of Medicine in the Province. (Bill 21)

A bill,

An Act to Amend the Natural Products Marketing Act And The Farm

Practices Protection Act. (Bill 22)

A bill,

An Act to Amend the Aquaculture Act. (Bill 19)

A bill,

An Act to Revise The Law Respecting The Guarantee Of Loans To Local

Authorities. (Bill 23)

A bill,

An Act To Revise The Law About Pensions For Members Of The House Of

Assembly. (Bill 24)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act. (Bill 26)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Insurance Companies Act. (Bill 27)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement Act. (Bill

28)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999 and the Municipal

Elections Act. (Bill 29)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Law Society Act, 1999. (Bill 30)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador Atlantic Accord

Implementation Newfoundland And Labrador Act. (Bill 31)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Forestry Act. (Bill 32)

[Technical difficulties]

MR. SPEAKER: These bills have now been read a first time. When shall the

said bills be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: Some of them on today, Mr. Speaker, and some of them on

tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: Some will be later today and some will be on the

parliamentary tomorrow.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 4, Bill 11, second reading,

An Act To Establish A Financial Services

Appeal Board, in the name of my colleague the Minister of Government Services.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 11,

An Act To Establish A

Financial Services Appeal Board, be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Establish A Financial

Services Appeal Board." (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today and speak to Bill 11.

This bill is to establish a single financial services appeal board to hear

appeals of licensing decisions in the insurance, the securities, the real estate

and the mortgage broker industries.

During our process to streamline regulation in the financial services sector

and reduce duplication, we identified the need to create a single appeals board

to hear licensing appeals. Currently, only the insurance industry has a

mechanism to hear appeals outside of the court process. The other three sectors

currently have to make appeals to the trial division. The establishment of a

single appeals board will bring consistency to the appeals process and provide

for a more timely decision than going to court.

The appeals board for the insurance industry is rarely used. Although,

providing the option for a more timely appeal is what we are looking to preserve

here and to extend to all financial service industries.

It is important we are prepared to allow challenges of the licensing

decisions we make in a timely manner for all involved. We do not expect a high

volume of appeals, only a total of about three or four a year. We still think it

is important to have a timely and affordable way to appeal licensing decisions.

This is an internal process for the sales people of financial services, with no

impact on consumers. The financial implication is minimal. The board will be

remunerated on a per diem basis to hear appeals and we are providing legislative

authority to make regulations for partial recovery of the cost from the

unsuccessful appellant. We feel the single appeals board will be well received

by the financial services industry and is an important service to retain.

Thank you, and I ask for your support of this bill.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It seems kind of strange that this government would be bringing forward a

bill to create another board at a point in time where it is patting itself on

the back for eliminating health care boards and educational boards. All of a

sudden, we are creating what appears to be another level of bureaucracy.

Mr. Speaker, we are dealing with something here, I guess, that when we get

into Committee I will be asking more questions about. When we see another board

appearing at a time of attrition, I guess, where the government is trying to

eliminate levels of bureaucracy, cost saving measures and so on, I just find it

very, very strange that the minister and this government would bring in another

level right now, and another board.

Mr. Speaker, I have a few more comments which I will reserve for the next

level.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We certainly support the financial services appeal board. It is good to see

that people have the right to appeal decisions that are made when organizations,

such as these mortgage brokers or whatever, make decisions they don't like. We

support that.

I wonder out loud, Mr. Speaker, while I am supporting this appeal board for

financial services, why, for example, people who are being dunned by the

Minister of Finance for taxes that are thirteen and fourteen years old and being

given interest rates of 1.2 per cent per month, compounded monthly for the past

thirteen years, why they don't have a right to appeal; why people whose taxes

were forgiven by the Minister of Finance, who are now having their income tax

taken from them by this government, why they don't have the right of appeal.

Why is it that mortgage brokers, insurance companies and financial service

companies have a right to appeal decisions that are made that don't suit them,

but individuals who are being chased down by this government, that has given

themselves the power to charge compound interest on a monthly basis to people

who didn't even know they owed the tax, and reaching back thirteen years to do

that, even if they had been forgiven, are still being charged and having their

money taken. Why don't they have the right to appeal, Mr. Speaker?

If this government is so concerned about people's rights and people's

ability to appeal decisions that are unfavourable to them and not have to go to

court - as the minister said: You know, you don't have to go to court to do

this, you can go through an appeal board and have the decision heard, and you

can hopefully get some kind of redress. Yet, people whose taxes are being taken

- we are not talking about financial services, obviously. They are not quite on

the topic, but it is related, Mr. Speaker, to the willingness of government to

recognize that unfavourable decisions that are made by government should be

subject to some -

MR. WISEMAN: That is a stretch.

MR. HARRIS: It is not a stretch. I mean, if the Member for Trinity North

wants to know what a stretch is, he should stick around for a few more years and

he will see a few stretches.

I want to say, Mr. Speaker, if we are talking about the right of appeal for

one group of people, then it is perfectly relevant and legitimate to say that is

something, that is a principle, that should be applied more widespread in this

Province, particularly when we know and we are hearing every single day, and

maybe the member - because I know a lot of members over there are hearing them,

because they are coming to us and saying: I cannot get any help from my member.

They are coming to us and saying: Look, I had this forgiven five years ago and

now they are after me for this tax. What can you do about it? I called my own

member but I haven't been able to get any help.

Mr. Speaker, if we had an appeal board, if we had a right of appeal - there

is an appeal board for student loans. If you do not get a student loan, I say to

the Member for Trinity North, if you apply for a student loan and you get turned

down, you can appeal to a student loan appeal board. In fact, there are some

students on it. They are appointed by the Memorial University Student Union, as

is right. If we have a mortgage broker who is denied a licence, he has a right

to appeal. It is the right thing to do, so I am supporting this bill. I am

supporting that it is the right thing to do, but I am saying that if it is the

right thing to do for students who are denied student loans, if it is the right

thing to do for people who are mortgage brokers operating in the financial

service industry, then it is the right thing to do for taxpayers who are being

unfairly ripped off by this government, even after their taxes have been

forgiven, and they do not have a right to appeal.

Mr. Speaker, I know the minister's department says that they are looking at

things on an individual case-by-case basis, but that is not enough. That is not

good enough, when we are seeing case after case and time after time of people

coming forward and saying: We have a serious problem here. I didn't know about

this tax.

There is nobody being forgiven thirteen years' interest because they say

they didn't know about this tax. I have not seen that in any of the

documentation coming from the Ministry of Finance.

I would like to say that we support this bill. We support the need for a

Financial Services Appeal Board, but we would like to see that individuals who

are being chased down by this government, with eight new positions being created

to continue to chase them down, 27,000 people, it turns out that some of them -

we do not know how many; it could be thousands of them - were already forgiven

by this government of having to pay the tax, and now this government is

collecting them through some bureaucratic method, through additional special

take the income tax returns that are paid. When they are supposed to get money

putting a hold on them and people are having to fight it out individually and do

not have a right of appeal.

I would ask the minister, because we are seeing dozens and dozens of these

things, new cases every day where people are complaining to us - and these are

the ones who obviously know they have some right to complain - coming to us and

asking for some assistance.

I mentioned a case the other day of somebody who owed $2 in back taxes, after

he had finally had it out with the Minister of Finance's officials, and the

ministry wanted $86, because $84 of that $86 was going to be interest. It was

going to be interest going back thirteen years. There should be a right of

appeal for those kinds of decisions, as well as the right of appeal for people

who are in the mortgage broker industry, or other financial services that are

getting protection here by the minister going through the trouble of passing

legislation and a whole act to ensure that people have some rights of appeal

without having to go to court.

Real estate traders, mortgage brokers, people selling securities, these are

the people being protected here. Insurance adjusters are able to appeal to this

board. So, we have insurance adjusters, we have mortgage brokers, we have real

estate agents, we have securities vendors, all of whom are going to have the

right to appeal when their rights are being challenged by a decision of various

bodies, and we have a situation where 27,000 ordinary citizens are being

subjected to what we regard as an unfair tax and an unfair method of collecting

it.

As I have said before, there are many people - I have not heard one person

yet come to us and say, I don't want to pay the tax. It is probably fair that

they pay the tax. Other people were charged the tax, who owed it, and if these

people have not paid the tax for whatever reason, whether they did not know

about it or whether they have been away for the last fifteen years, or whether

the government has not found them, any of these reasons - not a problem, collect

the tax. If somebody owes $100 from 1993 - you know, there may be some statutes

of limitations. That is another issue; I am not even talking about that. Why

impose an interest rate that approaches a criminal interest rate at this point

in time when you start adding up all the compounding over the last thirteen

years? Why would you do that, Mr. Speaker, in an unfair way to people who did

not even know they owed the tax in the first place?

I support the bill for the financial services, but I would also urge this

government to apply fairness to people who owe school tax as well, through

establishing an appeal board so that people can feel they have some objective

opportunity to see their taxes, and particularly the interest, gotten rid of. At

least they have someone to go to, who could listen to their concerns and be in a

position to apply a fairness rule, particularly if people did not know that they

had this tax, or, in many cases, even if they did know, the Province made no

effort to remind them, or they did not know where they were.

That being said, I support this bill at second reading. I think it is

important that people whose livelihoods are affected by decisions made by

governing bodies or licensing boards, that they should have a right to appeal. I

think that is a reasonable step to be taking, and I support this measure.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The question has been called.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said Bill 11,

An Act To Establish A

Financial Services Appeal Board, be now read a second time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Establish A Financial Services Appeal Board.

(Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a second time. When shall this

bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House?

MR. SULLIVAN: Today, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Today.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Establish A Financial Services Appeal

Board," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole

House presently, by leave. (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I call Order 5, second reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Services

Charges Act. (Bill 10)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 10,

An Act To Amend The

Services Charges Act, be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Services Charges

Act". (Bill 10)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased this afternoon to introduce this

bill,

An Act To Amend The Services Charges Act. This bill provides for an

increase in the fee for filing of a deed with the Registry of Deeds. The fee to

register a deed document will go up to $100, from $75, to finance phase four of

the Companies and Deeds Online system.

We allotted nearly $2.9 million in the Budget for phase four of the system,

and this fee allows us to recover this investment. This phase of the Companies

and Deeds Online system will provide for the conversion of deeds microfilmed to

an electronic format for the years of 1980 to 2004, allow for the on-line

searches for deeds for these years, allow individuals to search for mechanic

liens on property on-line, and it will also allow for a business requirement

analysis to determine the feasibility of on-line deeds registration and on-line

licensing in the insurance, real estate, mortgage broker and collection agency

sector. In return for the increased fee, users are getting a better system.

This is a simple amendment. It will delete the $75 dollar figure and replace

it with $100. Government is proceeding with this amendment because it is

consistent with our commitment to provide more on-line services. This makes

dealing with government easier and less time-consuming. It also provides for

better access to some services across the Province through the Internet.

We look forward to the support of all members of this House for this bill.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just a few words in second reading here about this bill to amend the services

charges act. It amazes me how anyone could possibly stand up, under any

circumstances, and say that they are pleased to bring in a bill which increases

a fee to people. You might be pleased that you want to improve services, you

might be pleased that you want to make something come into the technological

world in which we live in and accept the advances that we all would like to

have, and make things more progressive, useable, effective and functional, but I

do not know how anybody could attach the adjective to it: That I am pleased to

bring in this bill which is going to increase your fee.

MR. SULLIVAN: Are you supporting it?

MR. PARSONS: I definitely am not supporting it, I say to the Minister of

Finance. You have heard of the phrase nickle and dime somebody to death. I am

sure everybody out in TV land have heard of the phrase nickle and dime people to

death. We have seen enough of this Administration not nickle-and-diming people

to death, but loonieing-and-toonieing people to death, because if we could get

for a nickle and a dime what these people have imposed upon the backs of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in the last eighteen months we would have a

lot.

I suggest the Registry of Deeds, which already brings into the coffers of

this government millions upon millions and millions of dollars, already pays

enough to do the technological advances that you want to have done or you claim

to be getting done from this dollar now. These monies will go into general

revenues, I would suggest, and we will probably never, ever hear about how much

was taken in because of this little fee that the minister is so pleased to bring

in. She says it is a simple amendment. I guess it is all pretty simple if you

amend 100 pieces of legislation to bring in simple little increases of $75 to

$100. They all might seem simple and they all might be pleasing, but there is

somebody who has to pay for them out of their pockets. I do not know how you

could possibly be excited and pleased with anything that has this effect. You

might be pleased with the end result of seeing our Registry of Deeds that is

up-to-date and online, but I certainly would not be too pleased about having to

bring in another fee.

You talk about the use of words and how cute they are and when you use them.

We had the Minister of Finance stand up here on the day he delivered the Budget,

and he was quite truthful: We are not increasing any fees in this Budget except

one on the tobacco, one cent on a smoke, that is the only fee we are increasing.

That is true in the Budget, but he did not tell us about this thing that was

going to come down on us through legislation, another fee. That is why the

people out there have some difficulty with accepting this Administration's way

of operating. You say one thing and then it appears that you try to sneak

through the back door something else. If you are not lily-white, do not proclaim

to be lily-white, and then to have a minister stand up and ballyhoo that she is

pleased with this simple amendment. We are very pleased, Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians, that we are going to inflict another fee upon you. Yeah, take this

with open arms, enjoy, I am sure.

Anybody who buys a home, buys a piece of land and goes and gets a mortgage in

this Province, from this day forward, or whenever this receives Royal Assent, do

not worry about. It is only another twenty-five bucks. Well, I would not think

there are too many people out there pleased with that. I say to the Minister of

Finance, absolutely, we are not in favour of this piece of legislation. Not on

your life.

Now, we talk about improving the Registry of Deeds. Great! All the lawyers in

the Province are going to love it. I am associated with a firm that will

probably benefit from it as well, for the use of customers, but I would like to

see a commitment from this government, at the end of the day, how much this

simple, pleasing amendment is going to bring in, over the next two years even,

just take a yardstick of two years, how much this $25 increase is going to put

into the government coffers versus how much government is going to give to the

Department of Government Services so that the Registry of Companies can, indeed,

improve the technology that is currently useable in the Registry of Companies. I

will bet my bottom dollar that at the end of two years we are going to see a lot

more that has come into the coffers of government through this pleasing $25 fee

than we are going to see go into the Registry of Companies. I bet we will not

get such an undertaking from this government. There is no connection, no

connection whatsoever, I would submit, between the $25 fee increase and the

amount of money that is going to be put into the improvements in technological

advances in the Registry of Companies.

We have good examples of why that has not happened. We had the same minister

we asked some time ago: What about all the money that has been taken on the

other fees that were improved in the first Budget this government brought in?

Because that was supposed to improve the technology in the Registry of

Companies, as well. That was going to provide adequate funds to do it. Would you

believe that this Registry of Deeds that everybody, all of us in here have used,

probably at some time or other, to register our land deed or to register a

mortgage - and I raised this question with the Minister of Justice, for example,

who is quite familiar with this as well - you cannot use today, in this

building, in our Registry of Companies, in the vault where you go in to do your

work, you cannot, if you are a searcher of title in this Province or anybody, a

private citizen who goes into the vault of the registry of companies, use a cell

phone or a BlackBerry to get the results out. Now, that is technology! We are

going to put all this on line, so that if I am sitting in Port aux Basques and I

want to go on line, I am going to be able to go in and find out the title

history on anybody's property. Great! If I want to find out what the

Government House Leader has in Kilbride, in terms of property registered or

mortgages, I am going to be able to do that when this technology comes into

effect.

MR. E. BYRNE: When you do, will you pay it off for me?

MR. PARSONS: Not a problem.

The problem is, if I happen to walk downstairs in this building now - talk

about the technology! - if I walk downstairs inside of this building where it

happens to be located today, and look up information on Minister Byrne's

property and I decide I want to open my cell phone or my BlackBerry and relay

that information to Port aux Basques via my cell phone or BlackBerry, I can't

do it. You talk about technological advances! If I am in Port aux Basques, I can

internet in, get it and take it out, but if I am downstairs in this registry I

cannot look at the paper and call it out or e-mail it out. Now, that is a simple

technological advance. There is not even a fax machine down there.

We have people down there every day who work at it. In the City of St. John's,

for example, there are at least forty to fifty title searchers who make their

living from searching title and providing this information to lawyers and credit

companies and banks and whatever, to conduct business. If I am in line, for

example, I have to lose my place in line. If I want to use one of the computers

down there and I go in and look up that title information and I have ten more to

do but I have to get that one back to my office, sorry, I have to leave the

line, lose my place, go outside, make my phone call or send my e-mail from my

laptop or my BlackBerry, and when I come back I have to stand in line again and

start the process o