May 22, 2001 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 29

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I am just asking leave of the House to have

us acknowledge, in the Legislature today, that we have two birthday boys in our

presence. In a non-partisan way, the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, we

wish you a Happy Birthday. If we were being partisan I would only wish a Happy

Birthday to the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, and a very, very Happy

Birthday to the Deputy Premier; but just to recognize, Mr. Speaker, and have the

Legislature know that we do have two birthday boys here today and we are very

proud of both of them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, three teachers in the Mount Pearl area have been recognized for

excellence in their profession. Stella Greenslade, a teacher at Mount Pearl

Senior High was the recipient of the Atlantic Provinces Enterprise Educator of

the Year Award for 2001. Competition for this award is open to all educators at

the secondary and post-secondary levels who are involved in the delivery of

Enterprise Education. This award was presented to Mrs. Greenslade in Moncton,

New Brunswick in late April.

Ms Joanne Sparkes, another teacher at Mount Pearl Senior High, is the

recipient of the Prime Minister's Certificate of Achievement. This award

recognizes her commitment to excellence in Mathematics Education and her

leadership in professional and curriculum development. This award will be

presented tomorrow morning on behalf of the Prime Minister by Loyola Hearn, the

Member of Parliament for St. John's West.

Clarence Button, a teacher at O'Donel High School, has received the Prime

Minister's Certificate of Excellence for his leadership in curriculum

development, specifically for his work with science and technology students.

This award was presented in Ottawa a few days ago.

Mr. Speaker, in offering congratulations to these three teachers in the Mount

Pearl school system, I would like to note that nation-wide, a total of

sixty-five teachers were awarded the Prime Minister's Award for Excellence in

teaching. Seven of these awards were granted to teachers in this Province, a

very commendable commentary on the leadership, dedication and hard work of our

teachers to inspire and promote a positive learning atmosphere in our schools.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House to pay tribute to one of Carbonear's leading

citizens, Hayford Fong, who passed away last Saturday at the age of

seventy-nine.

Hayford Fong was a pioneer in the Chinese community here in Newfoundland,

becoming the third Chinese adult to become a citizen of Newfoundland in 1939.

He was the third generation of the Fong family who started the King Caf in

1918, which later expanded into a confectionary store on Duckworth Street.

After marrying his wife in 1948, he returned to Newfoundland, establishing

the Fong's Restaurant and Motel in Carbonear in 1959.

Mr. Fong was always known for his interest in the development of the

Carbonear area and will be remembered for his contributions to the community as

both a private citizen and an entrepreneur.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all members, I send my deepest sympathy to his

wife, three daughters and two sons on the loss of this pioneer in the Chinese

community.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to stand today to recognize and inform the House of some

activities that have been happening in my district in Bonavista, namely on the

Marine Centre there. Just last week I was invited down to take part and witness

a new 65 foot long-liner built on the Marine Center in Bonavista and launched in

Bonavista. A gentleman by the name of Wayne Marsh, who was the boat builder

there, is presently carrying out this activity, employing in excess of sixty

people year around. This is the third boat that he has launched in Bonavista.

In speaking with Mr. Marsh, he indicated to me that there is a lot of

activity having to be turned away from the yard. If we could only get a set of

tracks put there which would allow them to take some of the passing trade, some

boats, and be able to take it up into the yard, there would certainly be a lot

more employment opportunities.

This particular boat was owned by Captain Glenn White from my district. It

shows the individual's commitment and belief in the fishing industry in this

Province, when you see him step forward and spend in excess $1 million to build

a new boat to provide some comfort and safety to his crew who have to go in

excess of 200 miles offshore in order to make a living from this industry that

have employed and, I suppose, have been responsibility for maintaining most of

the communities in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

I just wanted to make the House aware of that, that there is some activity.

There is some hope in some of those places, and maybe with a little bit of help

we can reach out -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: - and help this new industry so that we could provide

even more activity in places like Bonavista.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to acknowledge the contributions made to the Province in the

area of drama by the Carol Players of Labrador West.

The Carol Players have been in existence for the past thirty-eight years and

during that period of time have won many awards, not only throughout the

Province, but internationally as well. Many well known actors in our Province

have been part of the Carol Players over the years, including: Kevin Lewis, Clar

Doyle and Jerry Doyle to name but a few.

Mr. Speaker, a few years ago, in 1985, the Carol Players represented Canada

at the international drama festival in Ireland with their production of Mass

Appeal and walked away with the Audience Appreciation Award, the very first

time in the history of the festival that this award has ever left Ireland.

While in Ireland for the festival one of our local entertainers and singers

who travelled with the group, Leo Bromley, was singing old songs which

originated in Ireland many years ago, and are still preserved in our Province,

but were lost to the Irish music culture. He spent many hours writing the words

of those songs for Irish singers who were very interested in bringing those

songs back to life in their own country.

This year, Mr. Speaker, the Carol Players were invited to take

part in the

international festival and will be performing the play West Moon . They

will be leaving on Thursday of this week and I am certain everyone in this House

joins me in wishing them the best.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to update my colleagues in the

Legislature regarding the status of the Newfoundland and Labrador/Nova Scotia

offshore boundary dispute arbitration.

Early today, the Tribunal released its decision with respect to Phase One of

the arbitration. In a unanimous decision, the Tribunal confirmed the position of

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, it confirmed the position presented by

Newfoundland and Labrador that the line dividing the respective offshore areas

of Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia had not been previously resolved by

agreement.

The Tribunal's decision represents an important victory for this Province.

We are one step away from the establishment of a line and the resolution of a

dispute that has prevented exploration from proceeding in highly prospective

areas between Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia.

Much work, however, remains. In Phase Two of this arbitration, the Tribunal

will determine a line to separate the offshore areas of Newfoundland and

Labrador and Nova Scotia. Our energies, therefore, will be focused on

effectively presenting Newfoundland and Labrador's arguments to the Tribunal.

Premier John Hamm and I appreciate the importance of resolving this dispute

as quickly as possible. To that end, I have spoken to Premier Hamm this morning

and we have agreed to meet within the next couple of weeks in St. John's, if

possible, to discuss possible areas of cooperation which may be in our mutual

interest and benefit.

I would like to recognize the efforts of the Minister of Mines and Energy,

the hon. Lloyd Matthews.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: I would also like to thank Ministers Parsons and Lush of

the Departments of Justice and Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: - all of whom were key to the preparation and

presentation of this case, with their officials. As a former Minister of Mines

and Energy, I appreciate the complexity of the issues involved in this dispute,

and I thank each of them and their officials for their dedication and commitment

to this particular issue.

I trust, Mr. Speaker, that I can speak for everyone in this Legislature and

the people of Newfoundland and Labrador in extending our thanks to our legal and

technical team. In particular, I would like to recognize our lead legal counsel,

Professor Donald McRae, and Alan Willis, Brian Crane and Ron Glinas. These

gentlemen are to be commended for effectively presenting our case to the

Tribunal during the oral hearings. I would also like to pay particular praise to

Deborah Paquette of our own Department of Justice, who served as the Province's

Deputy Agent in these particular hearings.

As was the case with Phase One, Newfoundland and Labrador will not argue its

case in Phase Two through the media. We will remain focused on the arbitration

and presenting our best case to the Tribunal. Our written arguments, however,

will again be made available to the public and the hearings will be open to the

public as well.

The resolution of this long-standing dispute will be positive for

Newfoundland and Labrador, and also for Nova Scotia. A resolution will see the

opening up of new areas of the offshore to exploration and the realization, Mr.

Speaker, of opportunities for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and Nova Scotians.

In my discussions with Premier Hamm today, we also discussed a potential

joint campaign to address the well-known inequities in the equalization formula

with respect to offshore petroleum royalties.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is indeed a very important and critical decision that has been awaited

by many people in the Province. First of all, let me join with the Premier and

government in congratulating those ministries and in particular our legal team,

led by the individuals the Premier outlined, for presenting our case in such a

way that the Tribunal has made a decision that can be seen as a victory for us.

Mr. Speaker, the resolution, the Premier says, of this long-standing dispute

will be positive for Newfoundland and Labrador, and Nova Scotia. I will say that

largely depends upon what the resolution is, or the Tribunal's decision coming

out of Phase Two. Obviously, though, from the higher points or the higher note,

a decision that will effectively put in place a boundary line will be able, for

our Province, to move on with exploration, to advance opportunities in

exploration, development, production, et cetera, that should be and can only be,

if we do it properly, right for the people of the Province.

I will say to the Premier: In your last paragraph in your statement, you

talked about the discussions that you and Premier Hamm had today on a possible

potential joint campaign to address the well-known inequities in the

equalization formula. I applaud that; but, it is my understanding, based upon

past comments that you have made, that you have already received some form of a

commitment on that from the Prime Minister.

I can say that it is largely known by all of us, though, that the

equalization formula which was designed to eliminate inequities has really

created inequality. To that end, whatever this government, whatever this side of

the House, can do, whether it is with Premier Hamm of Nova Scotia or any other

Premier, to advance our case to ensure that the equalization formula or some son

or child of the equalization formula that emerges should be truly in the sense

that will eliminate inequalities for regions of the Province like ours.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, would like to congratulate all of those involved in the successful

decision that has been received. I think it is important that we resolve the

boundary dispute so that we can further encourage development of the natural gas

to take place.

I would like to say to the Premier that what we need in this Province is an

oil and gas industry, not just oil and gas. It is important that any development

of our offshore resources be first and foremost utilized to benefit the people

of the Province, in terms of badly needed jobs and incomes to provide for their

families. So, while this decision is encouraging, and I think the people of the

Province are behind the government in their position on this, I think the people

of the Province also want to make sure that they are the beneficiaries of any

development of the oil and gas off our shores.

Thank you.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The government has made a greater commitment to accountability and openness

in government. We have before us a bill on the Order Paper now to reinstate the

Office of the Ombudsman. We think the bill can be improved. In fact, the

Minister of Justice and myself have been discussing possible amendments and I

think we may reach some possible conclusion to that.

Still to come, Mr. Speaker, is promised legislation to create the Office of

the Child Advocate and to strengthen the Freedom of Information Act along with

the Freedom of Information Commissioner, possibly. These, onto themselves, are

good things.

I would like to ask the Premier this: In an effort to improve accountability

and transparency in government, will the Premier agree that in this Province,

like in other provincial jurisdictions and in the Parliament of Canada, that it

is now time for this Legislature to move to introduce a piece of legislation

known as the lobbyist act that would require people who are lobbyists or

consultants in the Province to register with who they directly or indirectly do

business with, and to register with the types of representations they make to

government in the Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is certainly an issue that we will have looked at through the summer and

into the fall to see whether there is a requirement or a need in Newfoundland

and Labrador. I am personally not aware of very much in terms of lobbying

activity that happens in our Province compared to what happens in the federal

scene in Ottawa, where this legislation does make sense and has been required

for some time. We will certainly be doing a review of the circumstance across

the country with respect to other jurisdictions to see what the state of play is

in the country today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is not only the Parliament of Canada that has such legislation. The

Province of Ontario has had it for years. In the Province of Nova Scotia, I say

to the Premier, there is

an act being debated right now,

an act to provide for

the registration of lobbyists.

I would like to ask the Premier: If you want open government that not only

works honestly, but is perceived as well by the people to be honest, I think we

have to deal with the issue of lobbyists. There is a suspicion that too many

government decisions are deals that are brokered by lobbyists for large

corporations or friends of the government in power. The federal government and

many -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary, and I would ask him to get to his

question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The federal government, and many provincial governments, already require

lobbyists to register. My question is: Why should we, in this Province, maintain

lobbying which is not a dishonorable profession, I say to the Premier, as a

cloak-and-dagger sort of operation? Why would we want to hide their activities

on the one hand and even, to such an extent, their existence from the public?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In fact, the circumstance in Newfoundland and Labrador, I think, as the

members of the Opposition and others would recognize and acknowledge, is that

when we compare notes with politicians and government bureaucracies in other

jurisdictions, the view is that people understand that you don't really need

lobbyists in Newfoundland and Labrador. They are always amazed at how easy it is

to get access to ministers, to senior officials, to people in the government

without needing any lobbyist to intervene on your behalf, because we are a small

place, we know each other.

Mr. Speaker, I would get more calls, for example, on a daily basis from

someone like John Crosbie who is not lobbying for anybody, but who is just

interested in the well-being of Newfoundland and Labrador and feels quite free

to phone the Premier, anyone of the ministers, or any member of the government.

He does not feel like he needs to hire any lobbyist or anyone else. Most

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are exactly in that category. But, we will

check and see if it is an issue that is of such magnitude or such an issue that

requires legislative attention. If it does, Mr. Speaker, we will bring it

forward for consideration in the fall.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, people in this Province know - and maybe the

Premier can answer the question: Are you saying that government has never been

vigorously lobbied or lobbied on behalf of, for example, Voisey's Bay Nickel

Company? We believe and we have been told it has. Are you saying that government

was never lobbied with respect to, for example, the NEOS proposal a

year-and-a-half ago or currently on the dissident board by FPI? Is government

saying that they have never been lobbied, for example, on the decision to go

through the Apollo? Has it ever been lobbied with respect to the bulk export of

water? The list goes on.

Mr. Speaker, the issue is simply this: Doesn't the Premier agree that there

are people in this Province who are close to government who are registered

it is time, in the interest of transparency and accountability, that we

introduce similar legislation as other provincial jurisdictions have done so

that we can see, so that everybody can see, that if anybody is a consultant or

lobbyist that we know who they are lobbying for, what they are lobbying for, and

on who's behalf they are lobbying? Wouldn't that piece of legislation

contain some merit and also be in keeping with the spirit and intent of your

commitment, Mr. Premier, to be fully transparent and accountable?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you again, Mr. Speaker.

I would expect that the issue is being raised in the context of a different

environment altogether than Newfoundland and Labrador. The firms and the

circumstances that were mentioned, we have not been lobbied on behalf of Inco.

We deal directly with the senior officials of Inco. We do not need any lobbyists

to come to us. The minister meets directly with Mr. Hamm. There are no lobbyists

in between in Newfoundland and Labrador. They are not required. That is why it

must be a very difficult place for any lobbyist, I would suggest, in

Newfoundland and Labrador to try to make money by lobbying with the provincial

government because their clients can come directly to the ministries and to the

Premier's office without needing a lobbyist.

When we have these particular issues the proponents themselves come directly

to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. As I said at the beginning, one of

the things that they find pretty amazing is that they can pick up the phone and

call a ministry, a minister, a senior official, and they get the meeting. The

difficulty in a place like Ottawa and Washington, where these things make sense

in national governments and in a government as huge and big as the Government of

Ontario, is that those proponents find it difficult, if not impossible, to get a

meeting with the ministers and senior officials; so they send lobbyists in,

weeks and weeks in advance, even to try to arrange meetings.

Mr. Speaker, in the meantime, having said that, if it makes sense, because

the commitment of this government - which is already obvious because we are

delivering on it - is that we accept the challenge and the opportunity to be

open with the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, fully accountable, because

they will support us when they know what we are doing and why we are doing it,

with full access to the information that we used on their behalf.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier tries to spin that where we are such a small place that we do not

need it because Ottawa is so big and Ontario is so big. He fails to recognize

that Nova Scotia, which is not that much bigger than us, is introducing that

legislation.

I would like to ask him this question: Doesn't he agree with the principle

that is contained in the legislation before the Province of Nova Scotia's

House of Assembly for debate, that where applicable, that where a lobbyist or

consultant has to register the law requires that he or she register whether the

payment made to the consultant/lobbyist is, in whole or in part, contingent on

the consultants/lobbyist degree of success in lobbying as described -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask the Premier: Does he agree with the spirit and intent of

what I have just outlined, that in the interest of fairness, of accountability,

of transparency, that all friends of the government - and there are some, Mr.

Speaker, who make a living doing consultancy work and lobbyist work, which is

not a bad thing - but in the interest of being accountable, wouldn't he agree

that it is high time that we move towards such legislation?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, we will have a look at it through the summer, into the fall. If it is

an item that is needed in Newfoundland and Labrador, because it does fit

generically into the whole theme and approach of this government, which is -

already in just three short months - the most accountable government that this

Province has ever seen, including seventeen years -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: - when the Progressive Conservatives were in office, Mr.

Speaker. We should not forget that. It is an absolute position that we believe

in fully, and if it makes sense in Newfoundland and Labrador, we will gladly

provide opportunity for debate of that in the Legislature next fall.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, let me ask him this question: Does he agree

with former Premier Brian Tobin's statement in which he said that most people

who are watching a debate around lobbyists are saying that it is a good thing to

make lobbyists register? Does he agree with Mr. Tobin, that the people who

traditionally operate in the shadowy, smokey backrooms will now have to come out

into the full glaring light of day to register? Does he agree that it is in the

public interest that we move towards ensuring that transparency, accountability,

in those who are trying to influence the decisions of government on major public

policies -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: - that they bring in place legislation that governs the

conduct of friends of the government and lobbyists in Newfoundland and Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Let me ask him this question. The Premier has alluded to

looking at it over the summer. Let me ask him if he will he make a further

commitment?

MS J.M. AYLWARD: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: He has, I say to the Minister of Finance. He has alluded

that they would look at it over the summer. Now if you want me to ask you some

questions, I will get to you in a second when I am finished with him right here,

Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: My question for the Premier is this: In view of the fact -

AN HON. MEMBER: Another bad weed.

MR. E. BYRNE: No, there are no bad weeds on this side of the House, I can

say to the member opposite.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: If you want to describe the last three months as bad weeds

for the Opposition and your hand is in the (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, maybe government or members opposite will let

me ask the question to the Premier and see if he will answer it. The question is

this: In view of the fact that you have alluded to government looking at it -

because it is in keeping with your newfound philosophy of transparency and

openness - will you agree today to strike a committee of this House to look at

how legislatures across the country deal with this, like Nova Scotia, like

Ontario, like the Parliament of Canada, with a mandate to report back to the

House, to a particular ministry or directly to this committee, to make

recommendations for possible legislation coming this fall?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would suggest that, as always, if the Leader of the Opposition is

interested in finding out exactly what the views are of Minister Tobin or anyone

else, he can ask them in another forum and he will probably get an answer.

Mr. Speaker, I have indicated that we will have a look at this through the

summer. We will decide, at that point in time, whether or not it is an issue

that is front enough and important enough in Newfoundland and Labrador to

require some legislation, and we will report back to the House in that fashion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation. In April of 1997 the provincial government entered into a

federal agreement called the Labrador initiative to upgrade the highway system

in Labrador, but as part of that agreement, took on the responsibility of the

Coastal Labrador ferry service. The minister's own officials were in Labrador

as of late, Mr. Speaker, and according to councillors in Labrador, and I quote:

The Northern Ranger and Sir Robert Bond will be gone and replaced

with a freighter boat that will seat fifty people. Can the minister tell us

today why he has even considered such a sinister reaction to this and why are

the people of Labrador being treated as freight?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Labrador Agreement called for the construction of a road from Red Bay to

Cartwright, which indicated there would be less requirements for a larger ferry

on the Labrador run. We are in the process of consultation with the people in

Labrador and, in the next two weeks, I will be on the Northern Coast of Labrador

to consult with all the councils and all the people involved, so that when the

decision is made we will have the proper transportation links in Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, certainly, do a lot of talking to the people.

Of course, you should consult with the Member for Torngat Mountains who was not

aware of the situation.

I have had calls over the weekend and again this morning from people on the

Coast of Labrador who were upset, especially as it relates to tourism on the

Labrador Coast. We know there are some celebrations in the coming year and so

on, and this has a negative impact, even the rumors of such a thing happening.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister: Who has he

consulted with, in Labrador, on this process? Has he indeed consulted with even

the members for Labrador so we can put these rumors to bed, and it is not true

that we will be using a freight boat to bring tourists to Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: I want to remind the hon. member that this government has

done more for transportation in Labrador than any other government in the

history of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: This government is committed to providing the best

transportation possible for the people in Labrador, whether it be by road or by

boat.

This government will be consulting with the people in Labrador to make sure

that we have the right mix of the right transportation infrastructure in

Labrador to look after the needs of the people of Labrador. This government is

committed to looking after the transportation needs of Labrador more than the

government that was in power for the last seventeen years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, that remains to be seen. The now Minister of

Mines and Energy was a former Minister of Transportation at the time who stood

in this House on December 9, 1997 and said: Government road initiatives in

Labrador will not be carried out at the expense of Coastal Labrador residents.

Government will continue to provide a quality level of service, and they will

not trade off the Labrador ferry system.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. There ought not to be lengthy

preamble.

MR. SHELLEY: I ask the minister today, on behalf of the people in

Labrador who are disgusted with this - even a proposal - that the minister will

do the honourable thing today and take away this proposal totally so the people

in Labrador will have the ferry service that they deserve.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, the former, Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation was outlining -

AN HON. MEMBER: Former, former.

MR. BARRETT: The former, former Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation was outlining this government's commitment to transportation in

Labrador. I do not know what the hon. member is talking about, because we have

not determined yet what types of boats are going to be on - the Labrador ferry.

Right now we are consulting with the people of Labrador. We are trying to get

their input. Once we have their input, then we will make decisions on what kind

of boats are needed on the Labrador Coast.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government, in its Throne Speech, said it is committed to a vigorous

examination of the adjacency principle to ensure our approach protects the

viability of rural communities. Of the 112 million pounds of shrimp harvested in

the waters off Northern Newfoundland, only about 350 people found work in

processing plants.

When does this government intend to live up to its commitment by landing more

shrimp for processing in our plants on the Northern Peninsula?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the hon. member across the floor for his question. I think the

question stems from the roadblock last week from residents in the area,

especially from Black Duck Cove. I have a lot of sympathy for the plant workers

in Black Duck Cove as they see fish leaving the area, because I have the same

thing happening in my own district. The problem with the plant in Black Duck

Cove is not necessarily the resource. As the hon. member knows, I met with the

residents of Black Duck Cove during the Easter break. I went to the St. Barbe

district and met with them. I have since met with them here in St. John's. The

Deputy Premier has met with them, the Premier has met with them, and we are

doing everything that we can to see if we can get that plant open this summer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Shrimp landed in Newfoundland makes up only a small percentage of the overall

shrimp quota. Most of the shrimp goes to foreign countries and to other

provinces. Has this government developed any new strategies to pressure the

federal government to allocate more of the offshore quota to Newfoundland so

that places like the Northern Peninsula can have a future?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the hon. member knows the position of this government when it comes

to offshore allocations of shrimp or any shrimp that is allocated for

non-Newfoundland and Labrador users. We have made that point to the federal

government time and time again, with regard to the adjacency principle as well.

There are a number of problems associated with that principle, and I think that

your colleague who sits next to you knows; we had this discussion when I was in

St. Anthony last Friday. The fact of the matter remains that even if we were to

allocate or to say that the adjacency principle is in place on the Northern

Peninsula and fish landed on the Northern Peninsula had to stay on the Northern

Peninsula, your colleague who sits next to you, having been a fisherperson

himself, would know that under our jurisdiction we cannot prevent boats from

going elsewhere. If we were to stop the fish from coming off the Northern

Peninsula, we might find that these boats could land anywhere else in the

Province, or Quebec for that matter. That would not help the economy of the

Northern Peninsula. In fact, you might find that a number of truckers and a

number of off-loading facilities in the area might be out of work as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Justice. As the minister is aware, there

has not been a resident judge in Wabush or in Labrador West for some time. While

a judge visits periodically to hold trials, the police do not have access

locally to a judge when they require it, causing them to travel - two officers

and the person they have apprehended, to lay charges - either to Goose Bay or

St. John's, each trip costing thousands and thousands of dollars in airfares

and hotels, simply to appear before a judge. I ask the minister if he believes

this is an appropriate way to carry out justice in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, for some years now we have had one resident

judge in Labrador, that being Judge James Igloliorte, who is stationed in Happy

Valley-Goose Bay. He was supported by judges from the Island who worked the

circuit system on the southern part of the Island, as well as Wabush area, as

well as the Northern Coast.

Last fall, we rectified this situation in part by appointing a second

last twelve months we have, in fact, doubled the number of judges in Labrador.

My understanding is that both judges working out of Happy Valley-Goose Bay were

going to be able to provide sufficient services for all of Labrador, so you had

two full-time permanent judges rather than one full-time judge and a circuit

system.

Now, I will certainly undertake to check with Chief Judge Reid, and if there

are any problems whatsoever in what currently is happening in Labrador, I would

certainly be happy to check into it and report back to the member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again to the minister, I appreciate his checking into the matter but I ask

the minister, after he checks into the matter and bears out all of the facts and

the costs that are associated with the system as it is today, would he be

willing to look at the possibility of reinstating a resident judge in Labrador

West like we have had for many years in the past?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I am not prepared at this time to make any such

commitment. I am prepared to make a commitment that we will investigate the

facts as they exist. We have lots of places in this Province that used to have

resident judges or, years ago, magistrates. Port aux Basques, Springdale, come

to mind. What I am suggesting here is that we will check out and see if the

service that is to be provided is, in fact, being provided.

No doubt, cost is one of the relevant considerations. If, in fact, it is

cheaper to have a judge posted in Wabush rather than having judges flying in

with the support court staff, that is obviously an option. I am not prepared to

commit at this time that it will be done. I want the facts first.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question today is to the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Minister, back approximately fifteen months ago, the then Minister of Health and

Community and the now Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador made a commitment to

the people in the Clarenville area, and showed budgeting in the Budget that was

delivered fourteen months ago, that a dialysis unit and dialysis centre would be

placed in Clarenville to service the surrounding area. Since that time there

have been at least six dates put forward that this dialysis centre would be

open. I ask the minister if he would confirm today that this centre is going in

Clarenville, number one; and, number two, would he confirm to the people who

have had their lives on hold, some of them as long as four years, in here in the

hostel in St. John's, waiting for this dialysis centre to open in Clarenville

so they can return home again and return to some form of normal life?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Indeed, the issue which the hon. member raises is a very important issue. I

understand the importance of it to the constituents of his district. It is

important right across the Province; indeed it is. There are several areas,

including my own area of the Province that I represent, where there is a

concern. It is a service that we have been moving to try and make available to

the people in my own area.

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, certainly I am well aware of the pressing need

for the service. Government is committed to provide it in the Clarenville area.

We still stand by that commitment, and that service will be put in place and

will be made available to the people of the area. Obviously, there are some

arrangements that have to be made prior to the service being implemented. There

is training that has to take place. There is work that has to be done to the

facility itself to accommodate the new service. These are all activities that

need to take place. Our commitment is there and it will be provided to the

people of the Clarenville area.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, I met with the then minister, now Premier,

immediately after that budget was delivered. We met outside with a couple of

people who were on dialysis here in St. John's. He indicated that he had sent

a letter that morning to the Peninsula Health Care Board, allowing them to go

and order the equipment. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister: When

will the dialysis centre in Clarenville be open?

The minister talked about training people, which is important. I understand

there is special training. Will the minister also confirm that some of the

people who have been trained to go to work in this centre have now waited so

long for the centre to open that they had to go back and take refresher courses?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

No, I cannot confirm what the hon. member is saying.

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MR. SMITH: What I would say to the hon. Opposition House Leader: The hon.

member asked me if I could confirm, and I said I could not. If you want to

confirm for him, that is fine.

MR. SULLIVAN: I will confirm it. That is true. (Inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: I must say, Mr. Speaker, it is always nice to have an in-house

expert on everything. The hon. member opposite seems to (inaudible) himself on

that all the time.

Mr. Speaker, to the hon. member's question, which is indeed a very

important question, my understanding of the work that is ongoing is that it

should be completed by the latter part of June and indeed the service itself

should be operational in July.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, thank you.

I would like to continue the line of questioning of the Member from Bonavista

South, because, Mr. Speaker, at the time the former Minister of Health, the now

Premier, announced the funding for the dialysis center in Clarenville, he also

announced the same for St. Anthony. Mr. Speaker, the people of the Northern

Peninsula have been calling me and asking what is happening, that here we are,

fifteen months later, and still no dialysis centre.

I would like to ask the minister, Mr. Speaker: Has the engineering work been

done, as I understand it has, in St. Anthony; has the site been identified, as I

understand it has, in St. Anthony; and why is it fourteen months, fifteen months

now since this announcement and we still don't have a centre? As I understand

it, it is going to be October before anything happens down there. So I would

like for the minister to stand up today, Mr. Speaker, and confirm a date for the

people of St. Anthony so that they can get this much needed service.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was waiting to see if the hon. Opposition House Leader was going to give

the answer prior to my being able to - well, I thank him for deferring to me in

this instance.

I will say to the hon. member: Again, not to downplay the importance of the

issues being raised here - and I understand where he is coming from, as I do the

hon. Member for Bonavista South, because I, too, have had to deal with it in my

own area - with regard to the service that he refers to, in fact the space

designed for that area should be completed by the end of June and that program

should be in place by this fall.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Question Period has ended.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am presenting a petition signed by over 250 concerned citizens

in the communities of Reef's Harbour, Shoal Cove West, New Ferolle, Castor

River North, Castor River South, and Bartlett's Harbour.

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland, in legislative session

convened.

The petition of the undersigned residents of Reef's Harbour, Shoal Cove

West, New Ferolle, Castor River North, Castor River South, and Bartlett's

Harbour.

WHEREAS the undersigned residents are concerned about the proposed spraying

program for the area in the summer of 2001; and

WHEREAS the people of the area believe that past spraying programs have not

been effective in controlling the hemlock looper and that the spraying of

insecticides can be harmful to human health and the environment;

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to consider the health and environmental concerns of the residents of Reef's

Harbour, Shoal Cove West, New Ferolle, Castor River North, Castor River South

and Bartlett's Harbour, and to further investigate before proceeding with the

proposed spraying of this area this coming summer.

And as duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, the undersigned residents are very concerned about their health

and the health of their children and the environment. Realizing the harmful

effects that insecticides have on human health and the environment, they believe

that the two planned dosages of insecticide spraying in the Castor River area

will be damaging to their health and the water supply, and the existing

vegetation will be adversely affected.

Mr. Speaker, the area residents believe that the pest spraying programs have

not been effective in controlling the hemlock looper, and the spraying of

insecticides has unnecessarily placed the health of the community at risk.

What the people of the area are asking, Mr. Speaker, is for the government to

carefully consider these concerns and to investigate further before a decision

on spraying is finalized.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Motion 1, Mr. Speaker. The motion is that this House approves

in general the budgetary policy of this government.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Motion 1. I believe the hon. Member for Baie Verte adjourned debate on the

motion.

The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today, Mr. Speaker, to rise for a few minutes with respect to

Motion 1, and make a few comments with respect to the Budget which was presented

in March of this year. I believe the actual presentation date, Mr. Speaker, was

March 22, at which time, during the reading of the Budget Speech, what was being

proposed by government members opposite was presented to the people of the

Province. Of course, members on both sides of the House, Mr. Speaker, have an

opportunity to join in debate, either speaking in support of what was being

proposed during Budget 2001, or making critical commentary with respect to

various issues, obviously, by members on this side of the House who have some

serious objections and concerns with respect to what was being presented in this

year's Budget.

Last week it was debated at length in this House when it was presented by

members on this side that a motion of non-confidence be debated fully, which

debate was terminated and concluded last week.

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to note, I guess, that a full assessment of

the economic performance of the Province has to be taken into account and has to

be addressed when obviously making any sort of reasonable attempt to comment in

response to what is being presented to the people of this Province in Budget

When we look at the economic performance, there are certain points that have

to be raised in response and I will include some of them. One, the GDP growth

this year is expected to drop to 2.1 per cent from 4.7 per cent last year, as a

result of softer American markets. Secondly, crude oil exports have clearly been

the principal driver of growth in the Province since 1998, accounting for over

half of the growth in gross domestic product. Without Hibernia, Newfoundland's

economy would have grown at about half the national average, which is somewhere

around 2.2 per cent. It is easily seen, when we look at these figures, the

importance that the offshore industry has with respect to the overall budgetary

picture as it relates to Newfoundland and Labrador.

Despite oil prices expected to average some $24 a barrel U.S. in the year

2001, the volume of oil exports will not increase as much as previously

expected, due in part to the delay in production start-up at Terra Nova, which

is now at least a year behind schedule. It will be interesting to see when the

people of this Province can look forward to the first production of oil as it

relates to the Terra Nova project. Of course, it will be interesting to see in

terms of the overall public debate and the public issues that are being raised,

particularly as it relates to manpower and a variety of projects that presumably

one would think, in accordance with what the principles of the Atlantic Accord

are all about, would hire, hopefully the majority of whom would be, in fact,

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

Other exports, such as iron ore, newsprint and fish, are also expected to

weaken with slower growth in the U.S. Again, Mr. Speaker, the reason why these

particular points are being made at this time is that these are used to counter

some of the very positive spin that is being given to Budget 2001 by members and

ministers opposite.

A Statistics Canada survey released on February 21, 2001, predicts private

sector investment in the Province will be down sharply from the fiscal year

2000. Again these are, I would say, non-partisan reports. These are reports that

have been presented to us by Statistics Canada. Again, it is interesting to note

that this type of information, these types of statistics, this type of data,

must be used to counter and be used to show both sides of what ordinarily is

given a positive spin by members opposite when we see a very non-partisan report

suggesting that private sector investment in the Province will be down from the

previous fiscal year.

Employment and population growth is out of sync with GDP growth, Mr. Speaker.

Newfoundland was the only Province to lose jobs and population last year despite

the Province's leading growth in GDP. The Province will continue to lose jobs

and population in 2001 as the economy slows down. Of course, this is a

phenomenon, Mr. Speaker, which is unique to the past seven or eight years in our

Province, when we see our smaller communities, in particular, being depleted;

when we see young Newfoundlanders and Labradorians finding it necessary to leave

their home communities; when we see young families with preschool age children

finding it necessary to leave Newfoundland and Labrador, all of which results in

a slowdown in our economy and an almost termination of any real job prospects,

particularly in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, as our young people continue to

leave.

After three years of nation-leading growth in Gross Domestic Product the gap

between the unemployment rate in Newfoundland and the unemployment rate in the

whole of Canada continues to widen. So, again, even though members opposite will

paint a very rosy picture and will present a very positive spin on Budget 2001,

we continue to see the widening of the gap as it relates to the unemployed in

this Province as a statistic. In 1989 the gap was 8.3 percentage points and it

widened to 8.6 percentage points in 1998, and 9.9 percentage points in 2000.

Again, when there is an analysis done and the details and statistics are

carefully scrutinized we see a very different situation. A very different fiscal

outlook, I would suggest, Mr Speaker, when an analysis is done of the real

economic performance as it relates to ordinary, day-to-day Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians.

Offshore oil and gas continues to provide a substantial momentum for business

expansion, certainly in this region of the Province, from the recycling of

resource-related income. In St. John's, for example, the unemployment rate is

under 10 per cent, compared with an unemployment rate in the 20 per cent range

for the rest of the Province. So we see a real disparity. Obviously it is good

news for this region of the Province but it is certainly an unhealthy situation

that exists in many parts of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. As I have

indicated, we see young people leaving. We see families with preschool age

children finding it necessary to leave. We see a dismal outlook, I would say,

Mr. Speaker, for people who ordinarily would want to stay in their communities

but, by necessity, had no choice other than to leave and either to go to other

parts of the Province or, in most cases, to other parts of the country,

particularly, Western Canada. So, Mr. Speaker, this is the real reality. This is

the reality that is facing Newfoundlanders and Labradorians today, despite what

members opposite wish to portray and despite the very picture that members

opposite wish to paint in terms of giving a good news review and a good news

budget as it relates to what was presented in this House some two short months

ago.

In terms of revenue, Mr. Speaker, the Province has two main sources of

revenue. These are first and foremost federally funded revenues, mainly

equalization, and through what is known as the CHST, which is the Canadian

Health and Social Transfer. Secondly, the Province receives and is the recipient

of revenues from our own source revenues, such as harmonized sales tax, income

tax, gasoline tax, and other taxes as were presented in the handout at the time

of the presentation of the Budget two months ago; as well as revenues from

various fees, licences, and fines. Again, when there is an assessment done of

both federal-source revenues and those provincial revenues, it is seeing exactly

what this Province has to play with and the ability of the Province to be able

to fund its own existence and compare it to the services and the benefits that

it has to provide to the people of the Province.

Some figures include the following: total federal-source revenues in the

fiscal year 2000-2001, including the sales tax transitional assistance and

statutory subsidies, was $1.5 million compared to - I should go through these

figures in more detail - was $1.54 million compared to $1.505 million the

previous year. Again, Mr. Speaker, we see a discrepancy with respect to

federal-source revenues.

The Ontario economy expanded more than expected in 1999 and 2000, which means

transfer payments, re estimates, may give the Province additional revenues in

the year 2001. A higher transfer means Newfoundland's economy is doing less

well relative to wealthier provinces. Of course, this is largely due to the

factor of our population. Obviously, what we receive as a Province is very often

a result of the numbers of people who live in our Province. The more people

leave, the lower we receive. So it is a two-edged sword, I would suggest, Mr.

Speaker.

Equalization and CHST are distributed on a per capita basis as my colleague,

the Opposition House Leader, just indicated. A net decline of one person in the

population costs the Province about $2,500, according to the notes that I have

prepared; $2,500 a year in equalization and CHST transfers. One person, when you

combine both. When one person leaves the net result of the departure of just one

individual is approximately $2,500 in reduced revenues to this Province,

resulting from the source known as either equalization or CHST.

The $40,000-plus net loss in population since the mid-1990s have cost this

Province - if we do the math quickly - approximately $100 million a year in

transfer payments from Ottawa. So if we use the figure of $40,000 - and my guess

is, Mr. Speaker, that that figure is conservative compared to the early to

mid-1990s - in terms of the numbers of, particularly, young Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians who have left this Province, that fact alone has cost this Province

in excess of $100 million a year in revenue that we would ordinarily and

otherwise have received from Central Canada. That is a lot of money, Mr.

Speaker. So we lose it in many ways. The individuals are leaving reluctantly.

The individuals are leaving because they have no choice, in search of further

employment. The fact that they have left and the fact that they had no choice

but to leave results in this Province being further disadvantaged, in a global

sense, because of less amounts being directed to this Province from Ottawa as a

result of the combined CHST and equalization formula.

Equalization payments will fall as the Province's own resource revenues

grow. The Province will lose some $7 from equalization for every $10 it receives

in royalty and tax revenues from oil and gas, and more than $8 for every $10 in

revenue from Voisey's Bay. Again, when we see exactly what the importance of

these very significant industries are to us, and when we do an analysis of what

in terms of dollars and cents it means to the Province, it is a sad commentary.

It is a sad reflection of the reality that these industries have for us when we

take into account the counterbalance, and we take into account what we gain in

one hand and what we lose in the other because of the formulas, equalization

formulas and clawback regimes.

The CHST transfer to Newfoundland will increase some 22 per cent over the

five years from 2001 to 2006. While transfers to Ontario and Alberta, for

example, will increase 43 per cent and 48 per cent respectively and largely due

to the per capita effect, the per capita impact, the per capita equation that we

are dealing with. If we go down, our population goes down. Provinces that drive

the economy in this country - namely Ontario and Alberta, obviously because of

their economies and increase in their population - we see formulas being

assessed by this country being used to the advantage of these provinces. Again,

it is a province like Newfoundland and Labrador that is negatively impacted upon

simply because our people, through no fault of their own, have to leave. Young

people have to leave to find work. Young people have to leave to satisfy

exorbitant student debt obligations. Where better to do it? Perhaps in Fort

McMurray, Alberta or Tumbler Ridge, British Columbus, where they can go make a

few dollars, make a significantly higher income than they would, unfortunately,

in our own Province to offset the impact of a student loan which, if they did

not move, would only be strangling, I would say, and eventually insurmountable

to the point that they cannot even meet their daily needs with respect to

ordinary daily costs such as heat, light, shelter and what not. So our young

people have to leave.

The point I am making, Mr. Speaker, the fact that they had to leave, not only

does it affect that individual personally but it affects all of us because of a

very unfair equalization formula which is driven on a per capita basis resulting

in the fact that we receive, as a Province, less income and less benefits from

Central Canada because of an overall depopulation. It is a sad commentary I

would suggest, Mr. Speaker, and it reflects poorly on a country that appears to

be saying certainly to one another as provinces, a country that appears to be

saying that this is good enough; that this is acceptable; that this type of

regime is acceptable; that it is okay for one province to be treated in this

fashion. I simply say, Mr. Speaker, no it is not good enough. Really this

country, if it is truly a federation of provinces, provinces of presumably where

people are equal and are treated fairly and in an equitable fashion, it is not

good enough for a federal government to say that this type of fiscal regime,

this type of tax regime, this type of equalization formula is fair and in the

interest of all Canadians, because it is not, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, we

have people in certain regions, particularly our own region, where young people

being disadvantaged individually but upon their leaving the Province and the

540,000 souls who are left are disadvantaged collectively because of a system

that appears to be acceptable by a government obviously which is insensitive to

the needs of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

A few comments in addition, Mr. Speaker. With respect to our own source

revenues, I would just like to make a few brief comments. Newfoundland's own

source revenues in 2000-2001 where up about $135 million from the previous year

and federal revenues were up some $35 million, for an overall increase of less

than 5 per cent. Personal income tax revenues will decline in 2001 and 2002 if

this government proceeds with phase two of the planned income tax cut. The loss

will probably be in the range of some $20 million to $30 million. If the U.S.

and Canadian economies slow as predicted, government revenues will be affected,

especially revenues from consumer spending. These types of realities, Mr.

Speaker, had to be taken into account, cannot just be summarily dismissed,

cannot be overlooked because it impacts so significantly on the good news spin

that was presented by members opposite on March 22, I believe it was, when the

budget was presented. So, Mr. Speaker, it has to be presented and the public of

this Province have to be given the information in its true context of what a

total fiscal and economic analysis is and what it means to Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians.

Government spent $173 million more in 2000-2001 than it did in the previous

year. Over 50 per cent of the increased spending was in health care. That fact,

I think, most people in this Province would have no difficulty with. Thirty-four

cents of every dollar spent on Health and Community Services; fifteen cents on

debt servicing; thirteen cents on elementary-secondary education; eight cents

out of that dollar, Mr. Speaker, on Works, Services and Transportation; six

cents on post-secondary; and six cents on social assistance. The expenditure

does not include the $50 million operating deficit of hospital boards or the $3

million operating deficit of school boards. Public sector wage settlements,

operating deficits in health and education, the promised 10 per cent reduction

in tuition fees for Memorial University students and normal cost escalations

will raise expenditures close to $4.0 billion in 2001-2002.

MR. SPEAKER (Mercer): (Inaudible) time has expired.

Does the member have leave to clue up?

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Just for a couple of moments if I may, Mr. Speaker, just

to clue up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Government will have to cut programs or find nearly $300 million in

additional revenues to finance expenditure programs in the fiscal year

2001-2002. Finding that amount of money

may be difficult to do in a slowing economy.

Just a comment or two on the deficit. Government will probably declare an

operating deficit of around $5 million for last year. The actual deficit was

$221 million, we submit, when the operation deficits of twelve health care

boards, ten school boards, forty-two Crown agencies, and the government's

share of the unfunded liability for pension plans are factored in. The actual

deficit for next year will be closer, we would submit, to some $240 million.

It is this type of analysis, Mr. Speaker, that we feel, on this side of the

House, that must be presented. The public of the Province must be given both

sides of the story. It is not always a rosy picture, which is often what is

being portrayed by government members, but when there is an analysis done of the

true, economic performance of this Province, how young people are being impacted

individually, and how we, as Newfoundlanders, are being impacted upon

collectively and globally, we see a very different picture.

It is incumbent upon us, as Opposition members, to make sure that there is a

balance, there is a counter-argument, and there is the truth. That is what, in

the last few minutes, Mr. Speaker, we have attempted to do.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to have a few minutes today to speak on Budget 2001 and, I

guess, to have an opportunity, if nothing else, to raise some concerns that have

been raised in the District of Placentia & St. Mary's and throughout the

Province about the performance of this government and the caretakers of the

public purse. I guess, Mr. Speaker, it is an opportunity for us, on this side of

the House, to question some of the concerns and, from a district point of view,

to bring forward some of the issues and the concerns that people have in our

districts as they relate to how the public purse is expended and how these

people are affected by that.

I will take the opportunity, if I may, to make a few comments in regard to

the issues that are out there. The issues in my district are no different than

the issues in most districts. I certainly want to touch on a few of those today.

Over the past weekend, one that has come to light, and one that is a major,

major concern with the people I represent, is the condition of the roads and the

highways throughout Placentia & St. Mary's. I would like to take a few

minutes, if I could, to touch on those. I have had calls from people on one end

of my district, on the far community of my district, which is St. Shotts, down

in the bottom of St. Mary's Bay, right from St. Shotts right down to Ship

Harbour, which is basically, pretty well, getting down to the bottom of

Placentia Bay. There is an incredible amount of kilometers in my district that

need to be addressed, that needs some attention by the Department of Works,

Services and Transportation.

Back in January, when we received correspondence from the minister's office

asking us to put forward some of the highlights, some of the concerns and some

of the priorities that we had in our district, I took it upon myself to leave

one end of my district, as I said, in Ship Harbour, and drive to St. Shotts and

measure off - for my own information, and information that I could pass on - the

distance and the amount of kilometers that needed attention. Mr. Speaker,

needless to say, there is 100 kilometers of paving in my district that needs to

be addressed in some way shape or form. It needs to be addressed in recapping,

if possible, or certainly some heavy maintenance needs to be done in the

district.

It is 100 kilometers and, when I did some inquiring on that, I found that

there was approximately, give or take, a cost associated with recapping a

kilometer of asphalt in the tune of $71,000. That is what I was told, Mr.

Speaker. I stand to be corrected on that, but that is what I was told by some

officials. It is around $71,000 to recap one kilometer. Based on the 100

kilometers that I need in my district, that would give you a total of around

$7.1 million that I would need to address the concerns that have been raised in

my district in relation to the roads.

When I look at the provincial roads program, under the Budget this year, I

find that we have, in ballpark figures, around $22 million in roads this year.

In the provincial capital roads program, there is an expenditure in the Budget

of around $22 million.

As I said earlier, certainly from my own measurements, I would need about

$7.1 million to address all of the concerns in my district, knowing full well

that I am not going to end up with one-third of the provincial Budget. If the

Minister of Forestry was still the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation, I may get one-third of the provincial Budget, but I am not going

to be able to get one-third of the provincial Budget from the Member for

Bellevue.

Mr. Speaker, this allowing $22 million for the roads program - if memory

serves me correctly, back in 1989 in the last Tory government that we had in the

Province, in the last year of that government, we had over a $40 million roads

program in the Province. Twenty-two million dollars to address all of the

concerns in the Province. I understand that the minister has in excess of a

couple of hundred million dollars worth of priority applications, or areas of

concern that value over $200 million of work that needs to be done in the

Province. Certainly, I fully understand that he is not going to be able to

address all of the concerns that we have.

Last week, I brought forward a petition here in the House, signed by over 700

residents of St. Mary's Bay, to address the concerns with Route 90. If I could

take a moment to go through my district and to explain the concerns that I have

right from the road in St. Shotts up through Peter's River, St. Stephen's

and St. Vincent's, and from St. Vincent's right into Gaskiers, St. Mary's,

Riverhead, right up through St. Mary's Bay, Route 90, right up to Salmonier

Line, there are some major concerns there. To be honest with you, Mr. Speaker,

there is a danger in operating a vehicle on that road now, and certainly the

safety of the traveling public and the people who are traveling back and forth

on school buses. There are a lot of concerns there on Route 90.

Mr. Speaker, coming down through the Town or Mount Carmel, the mayor and the

council of Mount Carmel have put forward to me concerns they have with that

area. They would certainly like to see the minister address those concerns,

whether it is through maintenance or whether it is through new funding, but the

road through Mount Carmel needs attention and needs of have an expenditure

allotted for that particular piece of road.

Mr. Speaker, another piece of road that we have leading in between Colinet

and North Harbour, leading into the community of North Habour, there is some

major work needed with that road there, and something that I think the

maintenance budget of the department could take care of in a lot of cases. We do

not need 100 per cent recapping. There is a fair amount of work that could be

done under the maintenance budget. Certainly, that particular piece of road

there leading into the community of North Harbour is something that I believe -

I just drove over it again this morning - you could look at under a maintenance

budget and do a fair amount of work with it.

As you travel out through North Harbour on to Branch, the road between Branch

and St. Bride's especially, right up to the Cuslett lookout, Cuslett dump, up

on the hill up there, we need some major, major work done in that area. The

connecting road down to the community of Point Lance need work, but Branch

country need recapping in some places. There is a lot of that, Mr. Speaker, that

you would not handle under maintenance. Just this past weekend, with the amount

of travelers that were on the go, with tourists, with people who were out and

about for the weekend after the long winter, for the first time, see a big need

and certainly a huge need to have some attention put to that road.

Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to have the Minister of

Tourism and the Minister for Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs in the district.

We took the time to drive out through Route 100, out the Cape Shore, down

through St. Mary's Bay, and saw for themselves, first-hand the concerns that

have been raised by myself and other people in the area, hoping that they can

impress upon their colleague at the Cabinet table, the Minister of Works,

Services and Transportation, that these roads certainly need to be looked at.

When you travel right in through Route 100, into the Town of Placentia, there

is some major work needed in the town itself - Jerseyside hill, down through

Ferndale. There are some places there in Freshwater that need attention. In

Placentia itself there is some attention needed right throughout the whole area.

Go down into the community of Fox Harbour, and there is some work there that

could be carried out under the maintenance budget. Down in the community of Ship

Harbour, there is some major work needed. I have had presentations made to me

from people in Ship Harbour. I raised that issue here today with the minister

also, that we need to look at the community of Ship Harbour in relation to

trying to develop a tourism industry down there, Mr. Speaker. They need some

work done with the road down there also.

When you look back through the whole district, from Ship Harbour to St.

Shotts, there is some major work needed. Some major attention needs to be given

to that

section of the Province which needs work and hopefully, by raising the

issue here today - and I will continue to raise the issue over the next few days

as long as we are here in the House, that we have a growing tourism industry. We

have the Argentia ferry beginning soon over the next few weeks. We have the

Argentia ferry starting to come in and bring tourists to our area. We spend

millions of dollars on tourism development and tourism marketing here in the

Province and, I can guarantee you, after listening to people this past weekend

who visited our area, a major impediment to our tourism this year is going to be

the concern that we have with the roads in my area. I talked to a gentleman the

other day, Mr. Speaker, who was travelling out there in a travel-trailer, an RV

or whatever you want to call it, and he had a really rough ride over the roads.

As you leave Argentia and you lead right out to the Cape Shore you go to one

of the jewels in the tourism of Newfoundland and Labrador, that is the Cape St.

Mary's Ecological Reserve. I can guarantee you, Mr. Speaker, after listening

to people on the weekend, that if the issue of the roads is not addressed in

that area we are going to receive a lot of complaints this year, not only from

my area but I am sure the complaints will go back to the Minister of Tourism and

his department. Over the next few days, as the asphalt plants get up and running

for this construction season, I understand that is a concern and a problem that

we have too but certainly that issue needs to be addressed. I understand the

confines of the budget. I understand that everything cannot be addressed and all

the concerns cannot be addressed, Mr. Speaker, but I have no other choice but to

raise the issue once again here in the House when I have the opportunity to say

a few words. The minister told me himself last week that he was hoping to visit

the district over the weekend. I will be checking with him later on today to see

if in fact he did, and if he did I am sure that he will understand the situation

as it is. In the community of St. Bride's it is just treacherous, Mr. Speaker.

It is a safety issue, it is a tourism issue, it is certainly an issue of great

concern to the people in the area and hopefully, by continuing to raise the

issue here in the House, we will see some of that addressed.

Mr. Speaker, there are all kinds of concerns. Another concern that we have in

my district is in relation to what the fishery will hold for this summer. A

little over a month ago some representatives from the Town of St. Mary's, in

my district, came forward. We met with some people at the Department of

Fisheries in relation to the plant in St. Mary's and the concerns that have

been raised there. Just a few years ago there was a workforce of 210 people in

the plant at St. Mary's and last year that shrunk down to less than thirty

people due to not being able to get enough product into that community to have

processing done there at the plant; from 210 down to thirty. Out of those thirty

there are only a handful of people who managed to obtain enough hours to qualify

for EI. It is a big concern leading into this season, with the fishing season

started and crab starting to be landed again in the district.

There is a major concern with the community of St. Mary's, whether the

plants are going to open at all this year or whether it is going to open with a

bare minimum of activity. It is a concern that we have. In a lot of cases people

have come forward with the concern of the amount of crab that leaves the

Province unprocessed; the amount of crab that leaves the Province that is not

processed here but is processed elsewhere. My understanding, from the meetings

that we had, is that over 90 per cent of the crab landings last year left the

Province and was processed elsewhere or sold in sections. This is a big concern

in the community of St. Mary's, in the community of Placentia and out on the

Cape Shore, right down through my district, for the simple reason that because

of the amount of crab that is leaving the Province unprocessed a lot of plant

worker's jobs and processing jobs are leaving with it also.

Mr. Speaker, out in St. Bride's we have a concern with the plant. Over the

past year or so there have been some negotiations ongoing concerning the plant

in St. Bride's in regards to trying to sell the plant. The owner, Supreme

Seafoods, is trying to sell the plant. From what I can understand, Mr. Speaker,

it kind of has the amber light. I will not say the red light yet but it

certainly has the amber light now and things have slowed down in that process.

People in that area are very concerned about that. Hopefully, over the next week

or so, we will get a definite answer on where that is going to go; but

certainly, the people in that area are very concerned. Once again, we have an

incredible amount of product that is landed on the wharf in St. Bribe's; in

excess of 2 million pounds of crab. Again, we do not have a pound of crab

processed in that community or anywhere close for that matter, Mr. Speaker.

Therefore, while the harvesters are getting to sell their product the processors

are not getting the opportunity to do anything with it, and we have a lot of

jobs being lost through that process.

A few years ago there were a couple of viable plants in the Placentia area,

one in Argentia and one in Jerseyside. Over the past few years both plants have

ceased to exist. The one in Jerseyside burnt down about four years ago and the

one in Argentia ceased to operate. The concern with the one in Jerseyside more

so, is that there was a processing licence with that plant and for some reason

or other that licence is not there now. We are very concerned with the status of

that licence. I have made inquiries to the Minister of Fisheries and his

department over the past week. I am waiting for a response on that to find out

what the status of that licence is because, once again, there is a large amount

of product landed in Jerseyside, in the island there in Placentia Bay from

fishermen out of the Placentia area and not one pound of that product is being

processed in that area. Hence, again, thousands of hours and hundreds of

processing jobs going up over the hill along with the crab itself. So,

definitely it is a concern that has been raised.

When I look at some of the stats over the past year, Mr. Speaker, the landed

value of fish product in the Province in 1988 was around $183 million, the

landed value. In the year 2000 the landed value of fish products in the Province

reached over $500 million; somewhere around $500 million. That is the landed

value. That $570 million of landed value was from approximately 12,000

harvesters and this transformed into over $1 billion in sales by these products;

a billion industry that is creating less and less jobs. It has to be a concern

for everybody here in the House, and definitely for everybody in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, we have gone from 27,000 plant workers in 1988 down to, in the

year 2000, around 10,400. Almost 17,000 people have lost their jobs. While we

understand on this side of the House, and I am sure the people of the Province

understand that the changing fishery certainly eliminates many of the processing

jobs. There is a major concern that it is going to continue to eliminate. There

is a possibility of crab quota cuts, crab price cuts that are going to affect

the industry. When you look back at 1988 when there were 42,000 people involved

in the fishery - 15,000 fishers and 27,000 processors - and in the year 2000 we

have 12,200 fishers and 10,400 processors, for a total of 22,600 people involved

in the fishery. It is a major concern, especially for rural Newfoundland. I am

sure that the minister is fully aware of these figures and I am sure he is fully

aware of the concerns. While there are no easy answers, we all have to work

together to try to find something that can positively affect the people we

represent and the districts that we represent. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, over the

next year we have to try to find some positive answers for the many people who

are out there.

The crab sector in the year 2000 created, on the average, around 500 hours of

work for the processors and plant workers. They tell me that despite the highest

wage rates in Atlantic Canada, the average plant worker earns around $5,000

before EI. Even with EI, the average plant worker in a crab plant in the

Province earns a total annual salary between $11,300 and $14,500. Certainly,

that is a major concern to expect people to live on that. Sure we have

harvesters who are doing quite well, but as you can see from some of the stats

that I put forward here today, there is a major concern with the plant workers

in the Province.

We have had over the past number of years, right back to 1933 when the

Newfoundland Royal Commission Report was done to raise concerns and address some

of the problems in the fishing industry - we have been researched and documented

forever. In 1967 there was a Royal Commission Report. In 1978 there was a report

called: Setting a Course. In 1980: Managing All Our Resources. In 1981: Royal

Commission on the Inshore Fishery. In 1982: The Fishery: A Business and a Way of

Life. In 1982 we had: Navigating Troubled Waters; the Kirby Task Force. In 1993

we had another report called: Changing Tides. In 1993 we had another one called:

Defining the Reality. In 1993 we had: Charting a New Course; the Cashin Task

Force, and in 1997 we had the Report of the Auditor General of Canada. They all

had to do with the fishing industry. We have been documented and researched to

death, if you ask me. Now it is time that we sit down and try to create a vision

and a future for the industry. In doing that, we have to maximize the returns

and address the concerns in the global markets as they relate to the small

communities here in the Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. MANNING: By leave, just to finish up a few comments if I could, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. MANNING: I thank you for leave to make a few closing comments.

Mr. Speaker, right now over 80 per cent of the products here in the Province

- an immense amount of the product landed here in the Province which is creating

jobs is in the crab fishery. Over the next year - from what I can understand -

due to the Greenland crab coming onstream now being much more plentiful than it

was in years past, and Russian crab coming into the market, that the buyers are

seeing a big concern with the crab quotas for next year and the crab price as it

goes into the market. With all these concerns that are being raised now, Mr.

Speaker, certainly the fishery of the future is something that we all have to be

concerned about.

The situation with rural Newfoundland is something that we all have to be

concerned about. It is something that we have to get our heads around and start

working together on because we are all here for the same reason, to do what we

can for the people we represent and, hopefully, to provide a future for them.

Mr. Speaker, it is a big issue. There are harvesting concerns out there. There

are processing concerns out there and there are marketing concerns out there.

Over the next little while we hope - for this side of the House and with the

other side of the House - to work together on addressing some of these concerns

to have the maximum return on a great industry like the fishery that has served

us for over 500 years; to have a maximum return for the people of the Province

so that we can continue to harvest the fish, process the product and continue to

keep rural Newfoundland alive in whatever way we can. While we understand all of

the concerns we also have to understand that these people are very, very

concerned about their futures. As I touched on earlier, the amount of people who

have left the industry in the past ten or twelve years is something that

concerns us all. Hopefully, over the next little while we can get to address

some of these concerns.

Thank you for your time, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a few words today on the Budget. In particular, starting off anyway, I

would like to speak about the roads. There has been a lot of talk in the last

little while, by various members on both sides of the House, about roads, road

work and what is needed to be done in the various districts. Certainly, Mr.

Speaker, in the District of The Straits & White Bay North there is no

exception.

As many members of the House would know, especially given the by-election

last winter, they would have been around the district and seen the condition of

a lot of our roads. They did not see them in their prime condition, I suppose,

or maybe they did see them at their best. The roads in the winter - for roughly

98 kilometers of roads in the District of The Straits & White Bay North are

still gravel roads. I listened to the Minister of Transportation the other day

talking about roads and some of the work that has been done throughout the

Province and how grateful we should be. I listened to the Budget, and the Budget

basically says $18 million for road work throughout the Province. There were a

lot of commitments made over the last number of years in relation to roads in

this area. The people of Conche were told that the Conche road would be done

within two years, that this road would be upgraded and, I guess, paved. The

people of Boat Harbour had been told last year by the former Premier, and I

believe again this winter in the by-election, that this road was number one on

the list to be done this year. There must be a number of lists around the office

of the Minister of Transportation, because it seems there are a lot of people

throughout the Province who are number one on the list. With $18 million, the

list is going to be much shorter than what is required to be done.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Conche, Boat Harbour, Croque, Wild Bight and

Grandois - those areas in particular, are at the end of gravel roads,

twenty-four, twenty-six kilometres long. In the case of Boat Harbour and Wild

Bight, there are about eight or ten kilometers of gravel road there. In those

cases, these people have to travel fairly extensive distances to get basic

services, to go to hospitals, just to go shopping to buy the basis necessities

of life when it comes to food, clothing and the like. They have to beat over

these gravel roads, day in and day out. Certainly in the case of Conche and

Croque roads, those are roads that were basically pushed through by logging

contractors years ago. The provincial government has never spent any amount of

money in doing anything with these roads. We have buses beating over them on a

daily basis. We have transport trucks. Just the cost alone to the Department of

Transportation to try and plough these roads and maintain them with graders and

the like, I am sure the costs are quite high to maintain these roads while they

are in their present state. An investment of a few million dollars in the short

term would go a long ways in the long term to reduce the actual cost of

maintaining the roads in the future.

These types of things, when we are talking about our budget, how can we

expect in places like Conche, Croque, Boat Harbour, Wild Bight, Grandois, and

the communities coming down through The Straits area, Green Island Cove, Green

Island Brook, Eddies Cove, Savage Cove, Nameless Cove, Shoal Cove East, I guess,

is another place that comes to mind. In all these communities in this district,

with ninety-odd kilometers of gravel road, how can these people ever expect to

have any kind of movement in the tourism industry, just for one, when people

have to beat over these kinds roads to get there?

In a lot of these communities, people are challenged every day to try and

find a way to earn a living and build some kind of a future, to maintain some

kind of semblance of a community. If government chooses to not maintain or

invest in basis infrastructure such as roads, then how can we expect to develop

any industry or maintain any kind of semblance of an economy or anything in

places like this?

Mr. Speaker, I certainly think that the Minister of Transportation, when he

is getting around to announcing the rest of his road work, needs to look at

this. He said some time last week about all the money that was put into roads in

this district over the years. If you look at The Straits area, there has not

been a penny spent on the roads in this area by the provincial government since

the late 1970s and early 1980s when Route 430 was upgraded and paved. So, Mr.

Speaker, you would be hard-pressed to find people in this area to be thankful

for all the money that has been spent on roads here. Certainly, if you look in

the cross-country area - that is what we call it anyway, the cross-country area

- the Main Brook-Roddickton area, you know, a lot of the road work that has been

done over there was done under the Trunk Roads Agreement. Certainly, the

provincial government's money in these areas has been few and far between.

So, while the minister might get up and talk about the road work that has

been done there in recent years, he would be hard-pressed to point out much in

the way of provincial government money that was actually spend here to do it.

Mr. Speaker, I hope that he is looking at this and taking this advice into

consideration. He knows I gave him a letter of a list of priorities some time

ago for road work in our area.

AN HON. MEMBER: You haven't got either other letter (inaudible)?

MR. TAYLOR: No.

I hope he has that letter anyway. Just the week before last he announced

$310,000 for road work in this area; $310,000 now, when we have ninety-eight

kilometres of gravel road. Some of those roads - twenty-six kilometres long in

the case of Conche and twenty-four kilometres long in the case of Croque and

Grandois, and all gravel. Terrible, terrible roads! Never anything done with

them since the loggers pushed the roads through thirty years ago. He had the

face, I would say, Mr. Speaker, to put out a press release saying that he was

pleased; the face to put out a press release to say: Look what I have done for

The Straits-White Bay North. Three hundred and ten thousand dollars to replace a

few culverts is really all he has announced, Mr. Speaker, and nothing to be done

for these communities at the end of the gravel roads.

MR. J. BYRNE: Punishment, is it?

MR. TAYLOR: Punishment, that is all. He is leaving them to be punished

for living in these communities and having to beat over these roads, Mr.

Speaker.

If the government is serious, certainly, about investing in rural communities

and so on, I would suggest that they look a little bit closer at how they spend

the money and look at changing the way they budget for basic infrastructure such

as roads.

I go back, Mr. Speaker, to an issue that was brought up in Question Period

earlier today. Myself and the Member for Bonavista South spoke on the

announcement several months ago, fourteen or fifteen months ago, two budgets

ago, Mr. Speaker, on the dialysis machine for St. Anthony and Clarenville, a

dialysis centre. Certainly, over the past number of weeks or the past couple of

months, actually, since the election and since I have been a member here, I have

had numerous calls from the people in The Straits-White Bay North, people who

are relying on dialysis machines to keep them alive, and/or somebody in their

family who is relying on a dialysis machine to keep them alive while they are

waiting for kidney transplants. Mr. Speaker, these people have had to leave the

tip of the Northern Peninsula and move into St. John's in order to stay alive,

and live in a hostel or rent an apartment or stay with relatives, or something

like that, for extended periods of time.

Of course, Mr. Speaker, after hearing an announcement fourteen, fifteen

months ago about the building or the opening, or whatever you mind to say, of a

dialysis centre in St. Anthony, the people are asking the question: What is

going on here? This was budgeted, this was announced; much hoopla. Certainly, I

suppose that is what we were used to from this government and previous members

in our district; much hoopla. Every now and then there would be a big splash -

MR. J. BYRNE: Much to do about nothing.

MR. TAYLOR: Much to do about nothing. Like Mr. Shakespeare said: Much ado

about nothing.

The people are asking: Where is the dialysis machine, after fourteen, fifteen

months? Of course, we know that you can't put everything in every hospital in

this Province, but in the case of a dialysis machine and the funding being

announced and people in the area having to leave for extended periods of time -

we are not talking about coming to St. John's to have heart surgery or some

such treatment as that. We are talking about extended care. The people of the

area are wondering what has happened with it, and is the government truly

committed to putting this facility in this area, so that the dozen or so people

who are relying on this can access this service

in their own area.

While I am on health care, I guess I feel obligated to speak about the

medical facility, the clinic in Flower's Cove. I guess the building was

probably put there in the late 1970s early 1980s. Right now, the roof is in a

state of disrepair on that facility. Certainly, there are a lot of concerns from

the staff there and the people of the area. Give it a gale of wind next winter,

if something is done with it, you could see this place carried off.

Mr. Speaker, in doing their budgets, again the government is not maintaining

basic infrastructure in a lot of these communities, especially in places like

the tip of the Northern Peninsula and the Strait of Belle Isle area, in

particular. I think that in this area something has to be done on an urgent

basis with the medical centre in Flower's Cove. The roof work needs to be

done.

Mr. Speaker, some time ago we raised questions in this House about the

federal program for - I am not too up on this health care stuff, but I do know

that there was $500 million that the federal government had whereby provinces

could access funding for health care and for equipment, basically. This

government did not see fit to go after it. I have been through the hospital in

Flower's Cove several times now in the past three or four months looking

around the facility, seeing the kind of condition that the place is in, and

looking at the conditions that the hospital workers, the health care providers,

the nurses, the doctors and the LPNs have to work in, and see how they are

challenged to try and provide some kind of health care to the people in The

Straits area. Here we are with machinery there that is old, outdated, breaking

down on a regular basis. We had an x-ray machine in Flower's Cove that was

broken down for months. There is other equipment there that is outdated and

needs replacing.

Mr. Speaker, this government did not even try to access some piece of that

$500 million that the federal government had. Here we are with a budget before

us today that we have been debating in this House now for what? I guess close to

a couple of months we have been debating it off and on, running up deficits and

challenged daily to try and provide health care services to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador, and the government did not even see fit to try and

access some of this money.

Again, Mr. Speaker, we see my friend from St. Barbe here, the Member for the

St. Barbe district, who was up earlier in Question Period and spoke about the

dilemma of the plant workers in Black Duck Cove. Of course, the Black Duck Cove

fish plant, although it is in the St. Barbe district, some of the workers come

from The Straits & White Bay North district.

The problem in Black Duck Cove is not one that is limited to Black Duck Cove,

but is shared by numerous comminutes around the Northern Peninsula, including:

Englee, Conche, Roddickton, Bide Arm, Main Brook area. That area of the Province

certainly has not seen much in the way of an operational fish plant since the

cod fishery closed down in 1992.

Mr. Speaker, the real problem on the Northern Peninsula, as members would

probably remember, that I said from time to time in the past, and certainly the

Minister of Fisheries and Aqualculture would know from meetings that we have

had, it is not that the people on the Northern Peninsula do not want to see fish

trucked off the Northern Peninsula, but they want to see some share -

MR. J. BYRNE: Fairness (inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: They want to see fairness. That is right, Mr. Speaker. They

want to see fairness in how processing jobs are shared around this Province, and

we have not seen that. We have not seen it in the past, and it appears that we

are not going to see it in the future from this government. Ask anybody who is

involved with the fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador if, in their opinion,

there is a development strategy, a long-term vision, for how we would like to

see the fishing industry in Newfoundland and Labrador maintained or continue to

develop.

We have seen over the past number of years how, in 1988, we had three species

that we were basically dependent upon: cod, crab, and caplin, that provided us

with $183 million in landed value. In 2000, the top three provided us with $501

million in landed value. Now of course some people, politicians being

politicians, try to take credit for this, but the people who truly deserve the

credit for the increase in the landed value of the fishery in Newfoundland and

Labrador are the people who go out and catch it. They are the ones who have been

pushing the limits every day when they go out there in their boats and catch

this fish and bring it back to shore.

What you see more than anything, Mr. Speaker, when you look at these figures

and look at the fact that in 1988 the top three species, crab, caplin and cod,

provided us with $183 million and 68 per cent of our landed value, what you see

when you look at it a bit closer is that in 2000, with $501 million in landed

value, the top three were cod, crab and shrimp. What is really telling is that

now that accounts for 88 per cent of our landed value. While the government

tries to wave flags once in awhile and take credit for the diversification that

has taken place in our industry, the fact of the matter is that there has been

very little in the way of diversification taking place in our industry, Mr.

Speaker. What really has happened is that we have shifted - we have shifted, yes

- we have diversified from primarily a cod fishery into primarily a crab and

shrimp fishery. The real problem is that we are still- the success of the

industry both in the processing sector and in the harvesting sector lies pretty

much solely on the shoulders of the crab resource, Mr. Speaker, which accounts

for 48 per cent of the landed value. I guess if you ask anybody in the industry,

whether they are in a boat or in a processing plant, crab accounts for the

profit margin, Mr. Speaker, and that in actual fact shrimp is a marginal

industry at best when it comes to profits; very, very marginal, if at all

profitable. Mr. Speaker, what we have is an industry that is resting on crab,

and if something happens and the leg comes out from under the chair on crab, we

are going to find ourselves in a very serious predicament.

If you look at the Budget Speech when it was read, you look at the Budget,

you look at the Throne Speech some time ago, there is very little reference in

spite of how important the fishing industry is to rural Newfoundland and

Labrador and certainly to urban Newfoundland and Labrador. If you go out in

Donovan's Industrial Park, you will not have to drive very far before you will

find a business there whose livelihood depends in some way on the fishing

industry around the Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. I fear to think and to

ask what would happen if crab were to go, in some way, down the road of cod, and

what would happen to our industry and our communities.

Mr. Speaker, the government has to review its approach to the fishery in

Newfoundland and Labrador in how it has handled diversification, the lack of a

commitment of funds to assist the industry; not to run an operation, Mr.

Speaker, but in research and development: product research, product development.

It is been terribly lacking, I think, on the part of both levels of government,

both the federal government and the provincial government. There has really been

lip service paid to it. If we are really going to be serious about

diversification in this industry, and expanding our product lines and building

on the success of the industry in recent years, then we have to give it a little

bit more than -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. TAYLOR: Just a couple of seconds to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave to continue?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have to be vigilant in the fishing industry, Mr. Speaker. There is a role

for government to play in assisting in research and development and the

diversification of this industry, because what we have seen in diversification

in this industry in the last ten years has been as a result of the investment of

fishermen and processors in this Province into the harvesting and processing

sector, to be able to get in on the shrimp and crab fisheries that are outside

the traditional grounds fished by the majority of inshore fishermen on this

coast. We have to look at where we are going with the industry. We have to have

a strategy. Our history has been one of knee-jerk reactions to issues, both

local and larger, Mr. Speaker, where there is a plant that is in trouble in one

area of the Province, in one community of the Province, and the people of the

area lobby their member and lobby the minister and so on to try and deal with

that issue; but if there was a strategy in place for the last ten years and we

had the opportunity in the last ten years, since the moratorium on cod, to deal

with this, Mr. Speaker, and put a strategy in place for the processing and

harvesting sector of this industry, we did not do it and it is time for us to

get on with it.

I notice the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture said that he is committed

to a review of fish processing licence policy. I say to the minister, that is

absolutely needed in this industry, but I hope that he does not fall down on the

job as his predecessor did in the core licence policy. He instituted a core

licencing policy and then failed to put a strategy in place when we started to

develop shrimp processing plants throughout the Province. Here we are today, Mr.

Speaker, in Newfoundland and Labrador, with eleven shrimp processing plants. We

have a plant here, as my friend here, the Member for St. Barbe spoke about

earlier today. We have a plant that is built. Yes, there are legal problems

there and, as the minister said earlier, the problem today with the plant in

Black Duck Cove is one where, no matter what government did, it is not a

resource issue. It is a legal dispute between companies over ownership. Yes,

there is some merit to what the minister said, but, Mr. Speaker, the reason why

there is a legal dispute in Black Duck Cove today is because there was a lack of

resources and a lack of a plan, and a lack of a strategy in a processing sector

of this industry over the past three, four, five years when shrimp plants were

being built. As a result of that, Black Duck Cove is in the situation that it is

today.

Here we are, continuing to build shrimp plants in Newfoundland and Labrador.

There will be others open up and begin processing shrimp this year that did not

process shrimp last year. As everybody knows, there are plants throughout the

Province that are without resource, as we speak, and are wondering where they

are going to get the resource this year to have some kind of a viable year and

viable operation. At the same time, we are going on down our merry way with the

fate of the shrimp industry and the fate of the industry as a whole resting

solely on the shoulders of a declining crab resource and a weakening market for

crab in light of changes in the global economy and changes in supply from

Greenland, Russia, and other parts of Canada and the world. Here we are, waving

flags and talking about how great our fishing industry is. Certainly, Mr.

Speaker, I know that it is a great industry and it is a great place to work if

you can put up with rough water and salty water. It is a great industry but, as

has been the case in the past, we are always pushing the limit in the fishery,

unfortunately without a strategy for the long-term. If you do not have a plan

for the long-term in the fishing industry, you will always get caught with your

pants down some time in the short term.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to wrap up. I don't know who our next

speaker is.

MR. SULLIVAN: Wally wants to say a few words.

MR. TAYLOR: I will turn it over to the Member for St. Barbe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, once again would like to start off talking about the fishery, I

guess, with Black Duck Cove today. It is right on top of my agenda. Today, as we

know, people up in Plum Point, people from Black Duck Cove and area, are out

there blocking the roads and trying to deal with - in the only way they know how

- a situation that is out of their control. They are out there out of

frustration, because they feel that the Northern Peninsula is getting a raw deal

from the resources that are around its shores. They feel there is something

seriously wrong. It is not only the community of Black Duck Cove. There are

number of communities on the Northern Peninsula that feel there has been a raw

deal, because it is difficult to come to grips in a new and changed environment,

a new business world where you go out there and the communities that were built

because of the fishery around the shores can no longer be there, and yet their

wharves are still used to land as much fish as there ever was, maybe, and the

value worth. They find it very disappointing, very discouraging, and they just

do not know how to deal with the situation.

For the last few years it has been in the fall that this reality has really

hit. It has been in the fall that they have gone out there, protested and tried

to find some solution to what ails the communities. This year, in Black Duck

Cove's case, they have decided that the only thing that can be offered is not

the solution, and that is make-work or JCP programs that will just survive you

through the winter and then go. There has to be a fishery solution. If there is

going to be a solution for those communities, they have to have a real base in

the community.

Even though it is going to be quite difficult in how they achieve this, they

know that the road is difficult and long but there is no alternative but to try.

Many times those people have been told that it is more harm than good by

blocking the road or whatever, but no one has been able to offer those people

any solution in what would be a real -

AN HON. MEMBER: Nobody wants to do it.

MR. YOUNG: Nobody wants to do it, but nobody has offered any other

alternative on how we can bring attention to it, because the fishery on the

Northern Peninsula, as many places in this Province, was built on the fishery

and we are far enough away from the centres where the investment has been made

that if the fishery does not become a big part of our communities then there

will not be any communities. We realize that, very much so. The different

programs and the different alternatives, on their own, will not fix the ills of

places like Black Duck Cove or Cow Head, which is another community that is out

there that is very disappointed and discouraged with what they have seen, where

they have seen large companies make deals where their small plant will not open

so that the flow of fish can go as the larger companies wish.

When you sit down and think about a company, and you think about how it is 2

per cent or 5 per cent of the product that it is moving, and what it means to a

company, when you see the very existence of this community all but disappear, it

is very discouraging indeed.

Communities like Black Duck Cove, Cow Head, and many communities on the

Northern Peninsula really are to the point where, if a solution is not found in

the very near future, with the average age in those communities, we know that

they have to go. To encourage and to keep anybody to stay and work in those

communities is almost impossible. There are not enough young people there, there

is not enough future there, there is not enough income, there is not enough of

anything there for you to want to settle down. Really, we have been pushed to

that point.

What has happened over this period of time - when we started back in the

early 1990s, I looked at my community and I saw what it was and how I thought it

was a viable place, a place that I enjoyed living in. To see it, less than ten

years later, what this community could be, and how enjoyable it was to live

there and bring up a family - it is a very different place. It happened in such

a short period of time.

I think those people who are out there now are coming to realize that they

are just not going to leave and they are going to find some means of staying

there. I think eventually the government will be challenged to find a way to

come up with and have some solution that is more broad based and more spread out

than to go out there and have pinpoint solutions. I think that has been one of

the things where the government has come out of there and said: If this, this

and the other thing exists, then obviously another will. But what we have done

is said: Okay, this exists and it will continue on from here regardless of what

the real solutions, the problems and the real possibilities of the future were.

When they come out, I think one of the things that we want to look at is

somehow - the first thing that comes to our mind is an adjacency, some way of

leveling the playing field; because we know if the large business companies had

their way, they would probably have all the processing plants here on the East

Coast and there wouldn't be anything as far away as the Northern Peninsula. We

know we have to have some way, some type of mechanism put in place, so that what

we have is a possibility for our future. Today it does not exist because there

is no adjacency. Neither our provincial government nor our federal government

acknowledges our existence here or our need and want and decide to exist and

continue on.

We have high numbers of shrimp coming in and hitting our shores. I suppose

that is what has really woken us up in the first place up there, to know that we

do not live in a place with no value. We live in a place that is very rich in

what is around our shores, and there should be viable communities along the

Northern Peninsula as there always was, because the value of the fishery is

still there. Then again, I think, more so than that, when you start to look at

that, the real value of the product never hits our shores; it is given away,

there is some kind of trade-off. We have always talked about it, but now that we

are out there and you see the value and the amount that comes ashore, and when

someone tells you that is only one-third or one-fifth of what is caught every

year, then it really brings into perspective how much is being taken away, and

then we are saying: You really cannot live in a place like the Northern

Peninsula and work. You have to go somewhere like Alberta if you want work,

because there is no work here.

It appears to us that there is work here. It is just that someone decided

that we are not going to work out of here and you must go elsewhere because the

bottom line or whatever is going to be out of those communities. We must sit

down and decide if the well-being of a company that we would invite to our

communities to create employment for us is more important than the communities,

and somewhere that flip had taken place.

I think, as we sit and look at the world from the Northern Peninsula, it does

not seem we would be out there and willing to make that sacrifice, that we would

do the ultimate by not being there, that we would move ourselves to another

province to work at different jobs because it was the better thing. We know it

is not the better thing for the community and we feel it must be that way. To

sit down and have debates where people say: Yes, there is a trucking cost and

there is a cost associated with doing business in such a way. It is still better

for a processing company from ten hours away to go out of there and have a

product that is of poorer quality. I think, when you go out there, take a

product, put it on a truck and ship it for ten hours, it probably has a better

chance to being a poor quality than when it came off the boat and went into a

processing plant right next door.

When we go out there and sit down and those people put arguments to us as to

why this has to be, it kind of loses the effect on some of the arguments that

have been put forward. It has not been what we would consider traditionally good

arguments. Quality is of the utmost importance. That is why they will sit down

and argue that we have to have offshore quotas because the quality is the only

thing that really matters. When the shrimp hits the land, then the quality issue

goes away and it is only a matter of being more viable, being more efficient,

that is the only argument. Those are two very different arguments. The people on

the Northern Peninsula would like to somehow be able to see one argument

continue on, and it all hold some water in a basket.

Sometimes when we sit there and wonder amongst ourselves, we feel that the

holes in this basket are just too big for us. It just seems like we have been

out there, and there was a pie out there. We all realized the pie and the shape,

and there were going be slices cut out of it. When it was all said and done, we

feel that the slice that was left for the people of the Northern Peninsula was a

very small slice indeed.

I think the biggest part of the debate when we go to places like the northern

shrimp coming on-line is that we go out there and sit down, and I think the main

part of the debate is: How much do we have to leave in a place like the Northern

Peninsula in order the take the rest out? I think that is what we try to find as

a solution. If we are going to cut that in such a way, when we find that, then

we know we can take the rest of it and carve it up.

We all must stick together to convince the people of the Northern Peninsula

to make sure that we do not get too much of an insight of what is happening. We

are a fair distance away, and I think one of the disadvantages we have is that

we are not close enough to government, to have access to the government and have

access to the people, the players, who make the decisions.

I think we can really see that in the northern shrimp. When you go out there

and take the location of those stocks, and you think about how there were ten

plants that came into operation when t